GM food - is it really a problem?

[ruisatriani]

Hello all!

Before you all start shooting at me :nono: , let me tell you that i, too, still am a sceptical of GMm food, but i need to question all angles of this situation in order to be clarified.

Im assuming the uprising against GM food is mainly concerned with, as the name states, the alteration of the genomes, in order for a crop to be more productive and resistance to plagues and stuff. It is believed that this DNA changes are ARTIFICIAL and, therefore, it must not be good.

What i have is a simple question that aroused from a conversation with a friend of mine, biologist:

Isn't that what we have been doing for centuries, but at a slower rate? Meaning, the alteration of the genome of species by growing them in selective environments, isolating them and perpetuating their growth in 'unnatural' (artificial) conditions'? Some of the wheat species and vegetables like lettuces have morphed their genome over the years through this process of ARTIFICAL selection, i've been told. And, it is a fact, i've never seen a lettuce in the wild. Doesn't that mean that we are digesting food whose DNA we ARTICIALLY changed?

Again, this is only to clarify my mind and i would like to read your inputs, its a grey area to me. My instinct tells me something is wrong with GM food, but thats just ridiculous and not enough, i need to back up on some logic and reason.

Thanks all! :yo:
Rui

[TigaHawk]

Let's just use some basic common sense with this one!

you plant a tomato plant. How does it grow? It takes nutrience from the soil and energy from the sun. It produces fruit, which was grown - from those nutrience and sun! then you eat it.

Let's take non GMO crops - douse them in chemicals such as roundup - it will probably die. That's because the roundup is poision, designed to rupture the stomochs of insects that eat it. This poison also attacks the plant.

Now let's take GMO crops - crops made to be resistant to those chemicals. It's still doused in those chemicals, the chemicals are not isolated to the surface of the plant, they're also on the soil, which makes it's way to the roots, which the plant absorbs. What the plant absorbs it puts into it's fruit.

Keep in mind what roundup is designed to do - rupture the stomoch of insects. Keep in mind what the plant does - absorb the nutrients (and whatever else) is in the soil to grow and it also put's it in it's fruit.

What are you injesting when you eat GMO? Not only something which has had it's DNA altered (not through any good process either... you should look into how they actualy genetically modify something, it's not just as simple as cutting out the pieces you dont want and putting new ones in... hah!.. its a very crude process) you're also absorbing the chemicals - at higher doses than NON gmo as the non gmo ones struggle to grow under those conditions.

The full effects of the pestacide can be seen easily - it's designed to attack the stomoch - it does just that. The effects of the altered DNA? I am not too sure, something about the people that make it only do lab tests on rats for 3months before declaring it safe. The effects can be seen after the 3month mark - most notibly the 3rd generation of rats fed purely GMO (note, they need alot because alot die) the ones that survive are completely sterile, riddled with tumors and other defects.


What's wrong with GMO? Is it really a problem?? What would you like to believe? What you are told by the friendly faces that are trying to get you to buy their products, who go to great lengths to controll what you see and hear about their products - to the point where they practically write their own law's then hand them to government to sign? Or will you take the next step and do some hard research on the subject to see for yourself?

This is the internet. I could be full of ****. Decide for yourself, but make it an informed decision. :)


p.s - when have you known a company to do anything that's actually good?? I've worked for a "foundation that endeavours" that was meant to specailise in supporting people with a mental disability. on the outside it looks quite pretty, moves your heart and you think yeah! they're helping people that need it! work for them behind the scenes and you find out they revolve around money, the people they are meant to be helping provide great cheap labor, a constant stream of income from government handouts and sympathy donations. Alot of the money spent ensuring the people in the office had the latest and greatest tech, catering every 2nd day and taking the team out for lunch once a month at a fancy place. All from the money being given to support people with an intellectual disability.

Now here's a great idea to make money! Let's take something that everyone NEEDS, its essential to every day life.. hmm.... oxygen? wait they cant sell that... yet... hmm.. food? But food is natural! wait... if we change it so it's even slightly different we can put our stamp on it and then sell it! ohhh.. what? if the bee's mix with our product then a natural plant then the next genration of that plant contains our product in it? how much money can we make from fines from that?? that makes it our property!! HOLEY CRAP I THINK WE'RE ON TO SOME SERIOUS MONEY HERE!!!! oh what... health problems? phooey! who cares! MONEY!!!

[Prodigal Son]

I don't know a lot about this subject yet, but one of the first things I heard about GMO's is that they do not produce their own seeds... they are sterile crops. This means that Monsanto MUST supply the seeds for the next crop.... thereby in effect patenting nature. That sounds like hell to me... Monsanto controlling all the seeds.... aside from the fact that the crops are obviously mutated and since we are what we eat, we would certainly be mutating ourselves too.

If anyone knows this to be accurate or not please don't hesitate to set me straight.

[markpierre]

The 'O' type bloodgroup still hasn't adapted to domesticated wheat. That's about 9,000 years give or take, so far.
It had to mutate into different blood types. But that didn't happen in the time it takes to walk down to the grocery store and
pick up a box of corn flakes. That's about how much time you had to learn to digest mutant corn.

[ruisatriani]

Ok, these are some good insights. :)

I would like to comment:

tigahawk - GMo vs Non GMO regarding pesticides: objective stuff on the pesticide resistance of GMO's, but your arguments tend to revolve more about the pesticide use rather than the GMO direct effect on the human body. I understand the GMO's are enhanced to resist more powerful pesticides, meaning less plagues as well as more chemicals in the fruits we digest, but also nowadays we very often (and for quite some time (even though we should, as well, consider this with concern) ) consume non GMO's that have been sprayed with more or less agressive chemicals.

'p.s - when have you known a company to do anything that's actually good??'
yes, i do know. But they just earn a fair amount of money, enough to have anormal life, some still struggling, they dont have maximum profit as their guiding rule, because they would have to break some rules in order to have profits of the kind of the ones you are mentioning. I appreciate your ellaborate comment, it brings out good points! :)

prodigal son - i also heard something similar, but i got it in another way. What i heard was that nowadays, the effectiveness of seeds (the percentage of seeds that bloom) is much higher if you plant brand new seeds than if you use the seeds of your previous crop. Still also a bit grey in my mind, have to research that one out as well. :)

markpierre - that meets my perspective of DNA changes. hundreds of years give more room of adaption for organisms to actually digest the food which DNA has been changing, rather than such an abrupt change like we can manufacture nowadays. if i got your point right! i mean, i didnt know that info about the O bloodtype still being adapting, i had the doubt if our body could simply diggest new stuff easily or not. That was useful.

Thank you all for the input! :D
Rui

[markpierre]

Ok, these are some good insights. :)

i didnt know that info about the O bloodtype still being adapting, i had the doubt if our body could simply diggest new stuff easily or not. That was useful.

Thank you all for the input! :D
Rui

It didn't adapt, and it won't. It mutated. Over those thousands of years you have A and B groups.

You can produce a baby with its arms and legs reversed in a few months, with a very short regimen of chemicals.

[ruisatriani]

yes, my mistake. I meant the human specie adapted... through the mutation of the blood.

[Sidney]

Let's just use some basic common sense with this one!

you plant a tomato plant. How does it grow? It takes nutrience from the soil and energy from the sun. It produces fruit, which was grown - from those nutrience and sun! then you eat it.

Let's take non GMO crops - douse them in chemicals such as roundup - it will probably die. That's because the roundup is poision, designed to rupture the stomochs of insects that eat it. This poison also attacks the plant.

Now let's take GMO crops - crops made to be resistant to those chemicals. It's still doused in those chemicals, the chemicals are not isolated to the surface of the plant, they're also on the soil, which makes it's way to the roots, which the plant absorbs. What the plant absorbs it puts into it's fruit.

Keep in mind what roundup is designed to do - rupture the stomoch of insects. Keep in mind what the plant does - absorb the nutrients (and whatever else) is in the soil to grow and it also put's it in it's fruit.

What are you injesting when you eat GMO? Not only something which has had it's DNA altered (not through any good process either... you should look into how they actualy genetically modify something, it's not just as simple as cutting out the pieces you dont want and putting new ones in... hah!.. its a very crude process) you're also absorbing the chemicals - at higher doses than NON gmo as the non gmo ones struggle to grow under those conditions.

The full effects of the pestacide can be seen easily - it's designed to attack the stomoch - it does just that. The effects of the altered DNA? I am not too sure, something about the people that make it only do lab tests on rats for 3months before declaring it safe. The effects can be seen after the 3month mark - most notibly the 3rd generation of rats fed purely GMO (note, they need alot because alot die) the ones that survive are completely sterile, riddled with tumors and other defects.


What's wrong with GMO? Is it really a problem?? What would you like to believe? What you are told by the friendly faces that are trying to get you to buy their products, who go to great lengths to controll what you see and hear about their products - to the point where they practically write their own law's then hand them to government to sign? Or will you take the next step and do some hard research on the subject to see for yourself?

This is the internet. I could be full of ****. Decide for yourself, but make it an informed decision. :)


p.s - when have you known a company to do anything that's actually good?? I've worked for a "foundation that endeavours" that was meant to specailise in supporting people with a mental disability. on the outside it looks quite pretty, moves your heart and you think yeah! they're helping people that need it! work for them behind the scenes and you find out they revolve around money, the people they are meant to be helping provide great cheap labor, a constant stream of income from government handouts and sympathy donations. Alot of the money spent ensuring the people in the office had the latest and greatest tech, catering every 2nd day and taking the team out for lunch once a month at a fancy place. All from the money being given to support people with an intellectual disability.

Now here's a great idea to make money! Let's take something that everyone NEEDS, its essential to every day life.. hmm.... oxygen? wait they cant sell that... yet... hmm.. food? But food is natural! wait... if we change it so it's even slightly different we can put our stamp on it and then sell it! ohhh.. what? if the bee's mix with our product then a natural plant then the next genration of that plant contains our product in it? how much money can we make from fines from that?? that makes it our property!! HOLEY CRAP I THINK WE'RE ON TO SOME SERIOUS MONEY HERE!!!! oh what... health problems? phooey! who cares! MONEY!!!

Round-up is an herbicide, not a pesticide. Kills everything, plant wise. It has no pesticidal properties. Terrible, when ingested. GMO plants are designed to withstand, being saturated in round up which will kill everything else around it. The plant grows and grows, with this herbicide being part of it due to its heavy exposure.

[markpierre]

yes, my mistake. I meant the human specie adapted... through the mutation of the blood.

Haha. Only the A and B types did. The rest (the biggest group) of us have to sleep after we eat wheat. Or visit the restroom.
I expect we eventually disappear like the giant mammals. But since there's more of us we might eat the rest and turn the economy
back into hunting and gathering.
Since we don't have the sugars that the A and B groups have, and since nearly entirely the diet of a modern human is guess what?
I know that's a play on sugar, but you get what I mean. What will happen is type O will die off from starvation.

What if that extra 'ingredient' that caused that mutation was Roundup?

[Sidney]

I have merged the "GM Foods, are they really a problem" thread, with this one.

[golden lady]

What i have is a simple question that aroused from a conversation with a friend

Again, this is only to clarify my mind and i would like to read your inputs, its a grey area to me. My instinct tells me something is wrong with GM food, but thats just ridiculous and not enough, i need to back up on some logic and reason.


Rui

Your right your instincts are telling you its wrong but in conversations with others we need to be educated and put forward a counter argument.

I also think its incredibly reckless they way they go about things.
It reminds of some quotes from Jurasic Park
" Science can make a pesticide, but cannot tell us how to use it. And our world starts to seem polluted in fundamental ways - air, and water, and land--- because of ungovernable science." Michael Crichton.

"the lack of humility before nature that's being displayed here, um staggers me" Dr Ian Malcolm.

"oh what's great about discovery? It's violent, penetrative act that scars what it observes. What you call discovery... I call the rape of the natural world. Well the question is: How can you know anything about an ecosystem ? And therefore, how could you ever assume you can control it? Dr Ian Malcolm

[Sidney]

When I was in Mexico, I stayed in a beautiful villa on a high bluff overlooking the ocean. The caretakers of the property came an swept, manually with brooms, the bugs that came, and pulled weeds, with their hands. They used no chemicals. The place was teaming with creatures. The most beautiful variety of bugs and butterflies, insects I have seen. The plant life flourished, even though it lived with ocean spray 24/7. Beautiful red crabs, scattered over the hillside, would help themselves into the villa, where we peacefully cohabitated.

Those people know how to protect their earth. I wish the united states and other chemically addicted countries would takes some lessons from people who actually value the land. I was not aware of how dead everything is here until i went down there.

[Sierra]

The 'O' type bloodgroup still hasn't adapted to domesticated wheat. That's about 9,000 years give or take, so far.

Well, I'll be darned! I am O-Neg and I'd never heard this. But yes, I eat wheat, I have to go take a nap.

Sierra

[ruisatriani]

Just read the initial thread (blufire) to which you (Sidney) joined mine. It is said in a detailed way what i tried in my sloppy lazy way... Just feel the need to go steady and consistent with arguments on these discussions. This is one i feel i really need it.

Its not a matter of denial but consistency.

[william r sanford72]

my water table and the 3 wells we have are so toxic from run off that there is no filter made to make it safe for any thing.nothing.i am not even sure its water anymore.even IF they stopped today.the damage done will take years to manifest and then to heal.

[Sidney]

Just read the initial thread (blufire) to which you (Sierra) joined mine. It is said in a detailed way what i tried in my sloppy lazy way... Just feel the need to go steady and consistent with arguments on these discussions. This is one i feel i really need it.

Its not a matter of denial but consistency.

Hi, I just wanted to clarify, that I am the one that merged your thread. Not Sierra. : ) Also, I understand the need to debate these things, as some people really are not aware of the full scope, and outcome of these things. And IMO, the big picture, of GMO food and roundup, is not a pretty one. It is a picture of death and destruction, of the earth, and all of the inhabitants. It is that simple. If we continue using GMO and round up (and chemtrails/geo engineering), it will not take long before everything is dead. And I do mean everything. round up is not pesticide, as I stated earlier, but I do believe GMO are also engineered with pesticides IN the plant structure itself. Someone, please correct me if I am wrong.

[Another1]

This past week I got to witness something similar to round-up (I assume it was round-up) ~ a new neighbor was complaining that the vines on my home were giving her a rash, she b**** to landlord for a week and the other morning when I went out to greet the day, I find that every leaf on these vines had fallen off ... beautiful ivy not hurting anyone for 6+ years I've lived here, gone overnight ... just poof

up until now these kind of chemicals were just something I read about and using basic horse sense was pretty sure they aren't good for me but damn ... if there is a plant that can survive that kind of poison and then carry it to my supper table I sure don't want to be eating it

[naste.de.lumina]

So today we have a plethora of genetically modified (what are the real intentions?), Which grow bathed in pesticides and herbicides designed for these foods in an environment altered by obscure geoengineering (Chemtrails, haarp), and in the process of adding all this nanotechnology.
With nanotechnology they intend to create new foods from their atomic structures.
Actually, I have a feeling that they are wanting to turn the human into a thing.
What is this thing I do not know. Or which may be these things.
The Morgelous disease is a typical representation of things that can be transformed.
Unfortunately my vision for the future is bleak if we do not stop this process quickly.

[william r sanford72]

Just read the initial thread (blufire) to which you (Sierra) joined mine. It is said in a detailed way what i tried in my sloppy lazy way... Just feel the need to go steady and consistent with arguments on these discussions. This is one i feel i really need it.

Its not a matter of denial but consistency.

Hi, I just wanted to clarify, that I am the one that merged your thread. Not Sierra. : ) Also, I understand the need to debate these things, as some people really are not aware of the full scope, and outcome of these things. And IMO, the big picture, of GMO food and roundup, is not a pretty one. It is a picture of death and destruction, of the earth, and all of the inhabitants. It is that simple. If we continue using GMO and round up (and chemtrails/geo engineering), it will not take long before everything is dead. And I do mean everything. round up is not pesticide, as I stated earlier, but I do believe GMO are also engineered with pesticides IN the plant structure itself. Someone, please correct me if I am wrong.

i live about 10 miles from a small bio lab.UNI.federal.state and corporate funded training facility.YES pesticides and fungacides are in some modified seeds. into the gene structure. i cant upload or down load.cant post links without eating up time i already dont have.sorry.also i am really really computer dumb.just learning the tech.

[Sierra]

List of Monsanto food companies... I had no idea.

Courtesy of ljwheat:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60202-GMO-FOOD-Company-s-List-not-to-buy-from&p=689641&viewfull=1#post689641

[blufire]

I have merged the "GM Foods, are they really a problem" thread, with this one.

I object strongly to the other thread being merged with mine. They are in no way compatible. Please remove all related posts to another gmo thread that is similar in content.

Unless of course merging this thread with mine has other motives.

[ThePythonicCow]

I have merged the "GM Foods, are they really a problem" thread, with this one.

I object strongly to the other thread being merged with mine. They are in no way compatible. Please remove all related posts to another gmo thread that is similar in content.

Unless of course merging this thread with mine has other motives.

I moved all posts that had been made today on the merged thread back to this separate "GM food - is it really a problem?" thread.

This reverse merge wasn't perfectly clean, as perhaps a few posts fit better on your original Personal, controversial view of Monsanto, Globalists and Technology (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59869-Personal-controversial-view-of-Monsanto-Globalists-and-Technology), but it seemed close enough.

[blufire]

I have merged the "GM Foods, are they really a problem" thread, with this one.

I object strongly to the other thread being merged with mine. They are in no
I
way compatible. Please remove all related posts to another gmo thread that is similar in content.

Unless of course merging this thread with mine has other motives.

I moved all posts that had been made today on the merged thread back to this separate "GM food - is it really a problem?" thread.

This reverse merge wasn't perfectly clean, as perhaps a few posts fit better on your original Personal, controversial view of Monsanto, Globalists and Technology (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59869-Personal-controversial-view-of-Monsanto-Globalists-and-T
echnology), but it seemed close enough.

Thank you Paul.

[Sidney]

I have merged the "GM Foods, are they really a problem" thread, with this one.

I object strongly to the other thread being merged with mine. They are in no way compatible. Please remove all related posts to another gmo thread that is similar in content.

Unless of course merging this thread with mine has other motives.

I see this was already taken care of. I assure you Bluefire, my only motive was to tidy up the forum, as it appeared to me the SAME subject matter was in both threads. Your accusation was not necessary, and since I am a moderator in training, I think you COULD have given me the benefit of the doubt. Peace

[conk]

Here's a tasty bit, GMOs radically alter the DNA of our gut bacteria. Probably THE single most important aspect of our health, being compromised. Just one note in a whole songbook.

[Octavusprime]

I will give my take on this subject although I know I will probably get flogged for it. Just as a preface I graduated with a degree in plant breeding and genetics from a reputable AG school that I shall not name.

The OP is quite correct in that humans have been modifying the genomes of plants and animals for thousands of years. Often without knowing it.

This was and is important for civilization and for the plants themselves. We need food to support our population that can resist draught, resists pests and diseases as well as bear fruitful bounties of delicious food. The plant also benefits by being propagated thus ensuring the survival of its species. In fact in some ways the plants are using us for their own means, which is dispersion and proliferation. Symbiotic relationship in its truest form.

Genetically modified food is not inherently dangerous or harmful IF done responsibly. In essence you are inserting DNA that expresses a protein. For this reason the hatred towards all GMO foods is ridiculous IMO. We aren't playing God but as with all technologies it takes careful considerations to ensure we don't do more harm than good.

Technically one could find the gene or genes responsible for say hairy stems from one tomato plant that deters an insect pest and put it into another tomato cultivar that lacks this trait. I see nothing wrong with this. Normally that would take 8+ generations of crosses to find and then stabilize the hairy gene while still keeping the characteristics of the delicious cultivar.

Now if we want to talk about BT and Roundup ready GMOs, then I agree that these should not be used. BT is a toxin and is shown to be decimating our bees populations. Roundup ready plants introduce an herbicide to our diets which can't be healthy. Not to mention these are now cross pollinating and spreading into heirloom varieties.

So in my opinion GMO crops can be used as another weapon to provide food for our growing population. There needs to be tighter restrictions on what can be modified. Anything that puts toxins into our food should be banned.

Our biggest issue is the current monoculture agriculture system. It lacks diversity in species and cultivars which sets us up for large crop failure. See the Irish potato famine for an example. In order to keep up with demand we need to continue to evolve our crops and GMOs may have a roll.

Changes to the way we farm would have huge benefits to reducing pesticide and herbicide usage. Not to mention less water usage. 50 acres of a single species of corn, grown year after year in the same area destroys the soil and invites the proliferation of insects and diseases.

I could go on but this is slowly turning into a novel so I'll stop.

[Corncrake]

I have been following this thread and wanted to contribute but it is such an immense subject I have ended up deleting my posts because it is such an enormous topic. To start I am vegetarian, I forage and I grow some of my own food. I eat organic when I can but I realise we are an expanding population and that a large percentage of the world suffers from malnutrition. I believe that - with proper robust scientific study and transparency - there could be a place for GM foods. However, as the industry stands at the moment I wouldn't knowingly touch them. There are many corporations involved in research and production but the one I have investigated the most is Monsanto. It is all down to the integrity of the corporations promoting it. Monsanto's track record is awful. Just for starters examine what they did with recombinant bovine somatotropin (rBST). This artificial hormone was licensed for general use by the USFDA in 1993 after questionable research. When Monsanto tried to get it licensed in Canada six researchers rebelled saying they were being forced to approve it before its safety had been established. The licence was not approved and the researchers were later victimised. In animals treated with rBST mastitis has increased by 39% which has to be treated with large amounts of antibiotics which end up further down the food chain. There is much more to the story but this should suffice for starters. Similar stories abound with Monsanto's involvement with Aspartame.

Another point - just from an ethical point of view - Monsanto tried to patent a GM variety of Indian wheat. Farmers were not allowed to collect the seeds as they had done for generations but had to purchase them afresh from Monsanto each season. Farmers were killing themselves. This was made to sound like producing more food for the world whereas it was all about more profit for Monsanto. Check out Vandana Shiva and the wonderful work she has done on behalf of Indian farmers.

[Octavusprime]

I agree the current conglomerate Monsanto seems hell bent on pushing products regardless of the safety concerns.

I understand the desire to keep and make money over intellectual rights but damn. When I heard they were going after small farmers who's crops had unintentionally picked up "monsantos" gene due to cross pollination, I just about had a conniption.

Their poor form and horrendous PR destroys the chance of using GM products in truly great ways.

I got out of plant breeding long ago. Mostly due to the fact that people want round red tomatoes that ship well with high disease resistance. What you get is a hard bland fruit with little variety in the super market.

I dreamed of purple stripped tomatoes with amazing acidity and the flesh of a perfectly cooked filet mignon. But I digress..

[Another1]

Changes to the way we farm would have huge benefits to reducing pesticide and herbicide usage. Not to mention less water usage. 50 acres of a single species of corn, grown year after year in the same area destroys the soil and invites the proliferation of insects and diseases.

We were taught this stuff in grade school back in the 60s - they called it crop rotation back then.
It's funny to see how it's called a 'great idea' now and people should try it.
(That is the advice published in our local newspaper, small town Oklahoma last spring.)

[Octavusprime]

Changes to the way we farm would have huge benefits to reducing pesticide and herbicide usage. Not to mention less water usage. 50 acres of a single species of corn, grown year after year in the same area destroys the soil and invites the proliferation of insects and diseases.

We were taught this stuff in grade school back in the 60s - they called it crop rotation back then.
It's funny to see how it's called a 'great idea' now and people should try it.
(That is the advice published in our local newspaper, small town Oklahoma last spring.)

It's amazing how soon we forget the lessons of the past. Remember the dust bowl! This has been around for much longer than that even. Farmers still rotate crops and use fallow fields to replenish nitrogen in the soil but in many cases the amount of crops being rotated are few. I know one farm near me that has been planting corn in the same place for many years. They must be fertilizing heavily. No wonder our ground water is full of nitrates.

I was thinking more of mixed crop planting like the native americans used to do. The three sisters: Corn, squash and climbing beans. The corn provided a structure for the beans to climb. The beans provided nitrogen to the soil. The squash with its large leaves would block the ground from sunlight and naturally prevent weeds from growing as well as keep the soil moist.

Of course this makes harvesting by machine difficult but there must be creative ways that we can pack more into less area while at the same time reducing the herbacides, pesticides, fertilizers and water usage.

[Corncrake]

Remember the dust bowl! This has been around for much longer than that even. Farmers still rotate crops and use fallow fields to replenish nitrogen in the soil but in many cases the amount of crops being rotated are few.

I found this wonderful documentary called Green Gold on Nomadguy's Food Foresting thread - it demonstrates how 'dust bowl' areas and desertification can be re-greened.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBLZmwlPa8A

[Octavusprime]

Remember the dust bowl! This has been around for much longer than that even. Farmers still rotate crops and use fallow fields to replenish nitrogen in the soil but in many cases the amount of crops being rotated are few.

I found this wonderful documentary called Green Gold on Nomadguy's Food Foresting thread - it demonstrates how 'dust bowl' areas and desertification can be re-greened.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBLZmwlPa8A

Amazing documentary. Thank you!

[Referee]

Quite simply yes the food is poison. I suppose if there were good people at the top It may be okay after time and a lot of open long term testing. However right now the have weaponized it. GM food has the ability to insert foreign DNA into our DNA, no Joke This is a part of the Trans-humanist agenda.

[Octavusprime]

Quite simply yes the food is poison. I suppose if there were good people at the top It may be okay after time and a lot of open long term testing. However right now the have weaponized it. GM food has the ability to insert foreign DNA into our DNA, no Joke This is a part of the Trans-humanist agenda.

The thought that GMO foods can insert DNA into our DNA seems based in poor science and exaggerated to fit peoples agenda. Can you provide a link describing this phenomena from a technical perspective? What is the mechanism for the DNA transfer?

The following are my current understandings of how foreign DNA can get into us. Anytime DNA is inserted into the genome there is a small risk it can be inserted in the middle of a gene sequence thus disrupting it. However our body is generally good at detecting these "mutations" and correcting them.

It has been shown that the bacteria in our gut has the unique ability to pull DNA from it's environment (our food). This can happen with any food we eat. The chances that it will pull the recombinant DNA from a GMO food is equal to the chances it pulls non recombinant DNA. Now I agree if this gut bacteria happened to pull the gene for BT expression then we could possibly see a strain of gut bacteria evolve that starts spitting out BT toxin. That would be horrible.

It has been shown that virus' can also steal DNA and then insert it into our DNA. This has been going on for millions of years. Much of our DNA is actually viral DNA. The recombinant genes are in most cases not dangerous as they are just sequences of DNA that express a protein. As long as this protein does not cause harm to humans than we are not increasing a risk to humans.

Anyway, my stance is that not all GM foods are evil. Unfortunately the poor ethics of monsanto to put BT into our food has ruined the image of a revolutionary method of gene transfer. There is much disinformation against biotechnology but people have the right to raise concern about the food we eat.

These foods should have to be tested for efficacy just as drug manufactures have to go through rigorous drug trials before going to market.

My main point is that it is important to understand the protein or group of proteins that are being expressed. Testing and verification that these are safe for humans is essential. Adding toxins to our food source is very irresponsible but the science itself is not evil. Those corporations that put greed and money above public safety should be held accountable.

[william r sanford72]

this goes beyond greed.

[Octavusprime]

this goes beyond greed.

Perhaps. I have no love for monsanto. They have bought out many a good biotech company and ended some great Science research just to keep their money making, dependency creating products going.

[Referee]

Quite simply yes the food is poison. I suppose if there were good people at the top It may be okay after time and a lot of open long term testing. However right now the have weaponized it. GM food has the ability to insert foreign DNA into our DNA, no Joke This is a part of the Trans-humanist agenda.

The thought that GMO foods can insert DNA into our DNA seems based in poor science and exaggerated to fit peoples agenda. Can you provide a link describing this phenomena from a technical perspective? What is the mechanism for the DNA transfer?

The following are my current understandings of how foreign DNA can get into us. Anytime DNA is inserted into the genome there is a small risk it can be inserted in the middle of a gene sequence thus disrupting it. However our body is generally good at detecting these "mutations" and correcting them.

It has been shown that the bacteria in our gut has the unique ability to pull DNA from it's environment (our food). This can happen with any food we eat. The chances that it will pull the recombinant DNA from a GMO food is equal to the chances it pulls non recombinant DNA. Now I agree if this gut bacteria happened to pull the gene for BT expression then we could possibly see a strain of gut bacteria evolve that starts spitting out BT toxin. That would be horrible.

It has been shown that virus' can also steal DNA and then insert it into our DNA. This has been going on for millions of years. Much of our DNA is actually viral DNA. The recombinant genes are in most cases not dangerous as they are just sequences of DNA that express a protein. As long as this protein does not cause harm to humans than we are not increasing a risk to humans.

Anyway, my stance is that not all GM foods are evil. Unfortunately the poor ethics of monsanto to put BT into our food has ruined the image of a revolutionary method of gene transfer. There is much disinformation against biotechnology but people have the right to raise concern about the food we eat.

These foods should have to be tested for efficacy just as drug manufactures have to go through rigorous drug trials before going to market.

My main point is that it is important to understand the protein or group of proteins that are being expressed. Testing and verification that these are safe for humans is essential. Adding toxins to our food source is very irresponsible but the science itself is not evil. Those corporations that put greed and money above public safety should be held accountable.

Soory it took so long to get back to you been working a lot. Dr. Bill Deagle is one excellent source on this material. This is a good place to start not Deagle but an explination of what I am talking about here is a link (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhyCY-CkSzA). It is important to realize that we are dealing with breakaway technology. It is far out and advanced GM food is combined with ELF frequency from Gwen towers and Doppler stations, Chemtrails, Radiation, Word Alchemy and more and yes it has the ability to reprogram our DNA.

[161803398]

What I understand is that the way the herbicide works is that it targets a nutrient in the weed...say magnesium. That way the weed dies. If we consume the plant that has been sprayed then the magnesium in our bodies to some degree is being targeted as well and we might end up with a magnesium deficiency. Further, the herbicide targets the magnesium in the bodies of the little squigly things that live in the soil...killing them off as well and creating an imbalance in the soil. I understand that one little entity was found in soil that would normally be rare because it is kept in check by the other little soil entities...so rare that it was not known what it actually was. The last I heard it was this little soil being that got into the food and was responsible for causing sterility.

[Corncrake]

I recently came across this article regarding rBGH which supports my earlier post on the subject : 'Strangely like Fiction: Sponsored Academics Admit Falsely Claiming Dairy Hormone Safety Endorsements".

http://independentsciencenews.org/news/rbgh-safety-endorsement/

There is an urgent need for [I]all[I] clinical trials to be reported otherwise we see only what we are allowed to see.