Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Copied verbatim from http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2013/06/sirius-documentary-reported-project-financial-improprieties-and-message-falsehoods-by-dr-steven-greer-undercut-ufoet-and.html



Dr. Greer reportedly improperly “skimmed” project funds for personal real estate.
Core insiders including Dr. Jan Bravo (portrayed as a supporter in Sirius) abandoned Dr. Greer prior to premiere. Some “in fear for their lives”.
“Dead Man’s Trigger” touted by Dr. Greer at outset of documentary is 33 page document (PDF below) containing apparent fabricated accusations.


By Alfred Lambremont Webre




As a result of a 3-month investigation including core supporters of film, UFO/ET, and New Energy projects led by Dr. Steven Greer (http://www.disclosureproject.org/presskit/sgbio.shtml), [Sirius documentary (http://www.sirius.neverendinglight.com/), Disclosure Project (http://www.disclosureproject.org/), Orion Project (http://www.theorionproject.org/en/)] Exopolitics.com is reporting preliminary evidence of apparent project financial improprieties by Dr. Steven Greer that led to the departure of his long-time core team, including Dr. Jan Bravo (http://drgreersblog.disclosureproject.org/?m=201207), portrayed in Sirius as a supporter of Dr. Greer, when in fact she had reportedly disaffiliated with Dr. Greer prior to the premiere of the documentary Sirius.


Dr. Jan Bravo, MD

One Exopolitics.com confidential source in direct contact with former Greer core team members stated,

“[Steven Greer’s] core team has left. Besides the drugs..., he's [Greer’s] been taking the money meant for disclosure and free energy and using it to buy personal real estate, drugs.... His [Greer’s] core team is really hurting, feel like they've left a cult. He's [Greer’s] turned on some of them maliciously and they are fearful of what he might do to them. They described also how they had many researchers come forth with viable technologies that Steven turned away because he wanted to use the $$ for other things - which turned out to be the aforementioned. Really sad all around.”Referring to Drs. Jan Bravo and other core team members, the Exopolitics.com confidential source stated,

“Imagine how miserable it's been for them [Drs. Jan Bravo] having to finally pull the plug on supporting the whole UFO/ET movement because Greer essentially hijacked the whole thing out of a perverted sense of pathological self-interest. Specifically, Jan has sacrificed her entire career and livelihood to move the entire UFO/ET movement forward as far as it has gone.”
Greer core team threatened and “afraid for their lives” after disaffiliating

The confidential Exopolitics.com source stated that some core team members who had disaffiliated with Dr. Greer were afraid for their lives. At one point, the source stated,

“The people who have left Greer's team are afraid for their lives. One of them had his brakes cut, etc.”The confidential Exopolitics.com source also stated that former Greer associate Dr. Jan Bravo had been threatened following her disaffiliation with Dr. Greer.


“Jan Bravo said that she came home today to find on her front foyer some streaks of blood...and it didn't come from the dog. She considered it a warning and no more.”



“Jan doesn't want to alter her life. She interprets it as defeat if she has to change her way of life.”


When reached directly by Exopolitics.com for comment Dr. Jan Bravo and two other core team members did not reply. Through the intermediary confidential Exopolitics.com source with whom Exopolitics.com had been dialoguing with Dr. Jan Bravo, Dr. Bravo stated,

“Jan [Dr. Jan Bravo] reiterated not to take action, especially by going public with anything shared to date…. unless it's Woolsey [former CIA Director James Woolsey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._James_Woolsey,_Jr.)] getting directly involved.... Greer [Dr. Steven Greer] has been throwing Woolsey's name around ever since Jim made the mistake of allowing Greer to join him and three other people for dinner, and Greer has blamed Woolsey for all sorts of stuff like blocking inventors from going forward with their technologies...complete B.S.”



Sirius film crew reportedly acknowledges Greer skimming project funds

The confidential Exopolitics.com source reported,





"Interesting meeting with the Sirius film production crew yesterday. They already knew he was skimming funds off the top from the Sirius pot of money."




Sirius documentary: Fabrications in Greer’s “Dead Man’s Trigger”

At the outset of the Sirius documentary, Dr. Greer greatly touts his “Dead Man’s Trigger”, a document he has created setting out individuals who might be responsible for his demise in the event that he was assassinated or threatened.

A copy of Dr. Greer’s “Dead Man’s Trigger”, a 33 page PDF document, obtained by Exopolitics.com in the course of this news investigation can be downloaded at the link below.

As featured in documentary film "Sirius", "Dead Man's Trigger" by Dr. Steven Greer



To download "Dead Man's Trigger" by Dr. Steven Greer (33 pages PDF), please click below:

http://exopolitics.blogs.com/files/steve.greer.dead.mans.trigger.pdf

 (http://exopolitics.blogs.com/files/steve.greer.dead.mans.trigger.pdf)

ARTICLE URL:

http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2013/06/as-featured-in-documentary-film-sirius-dead-mans-trigger-by-dr-steven-greer.html

The bulk of the “Dead Man’s Trigger” may have a familiar ring to those who are versed in Dr. Greer’s writings and speeches and simply repeats the assertions that are made in the Sirius documentary, in Dr. Greer’s speeches and books obtainable at the Disclosure Project website.

One specific fabrication of note in the Greer “Dead Man’s Trigger” is, however, that the individuals Todd Hathaway and Pete Sumaruck would be putatively responsible for any demise of Dr. Greer.

Exopolitics.com has been informed that Todd Hathaway is in fact one of the individuals who has been comforting Dr. Jan Bravo after her disaffiliation from Dr. Greer. According to a confidential source, “If the day comes where all this comes out, the inventor who stood up to Greer is Pete Sumaruck.”

Therefore, it would appear that Dr. Greer’s “Dead Man’s Trigger” is actually structured around a false and misleading premise. In fact, the two individuals cited by Dr. Greer as being a putative “cause” of any demise of Dr. Greer are in fact (a) an individual who is giving comfort to Dr. Jan Bravo, a former Greer affiliate who reports having been threatened; and (b) a New Energy inventor who “stood up to Dr. Greer”.


Steven Greer, UFO/ET Disclosure & the Transhumanist Agenda

As stated in a recent Exopolitics.com article that focused on Dr. Steven Greer and two other specific opinion leaders in the UFO/ET movement, “The brain-mind entrainment data presented in this article, while preliminary in nature, raises prima facie questions about the future of the Exopolitical movement. If it is factually true that such opinion leaders in the UFO/ET "Disclosure" movement are brain-mind entrained due to manipulatory extraterrestrial or military-intelligence advance nanotechnology and hence acting out their controller's agendas, then this fact needs to be publicly exposed and discussed.” [1]

The preliminary evidence gathered in this Exopolitics.com article from direct eyewitnesses witnesses to financial improprieties by Dr. Steven Greer ranging from long time core supporters to the Sirius documentary film crew and some of whom are in fear for their lives gives rise to a prima facie presumption that they are being truthful.

One of the conclusions of the Exopolitics.com study on the Transhumanist Agenda in the UFO/ET movement stated, “The anomalous eye and body movements of Messrs. Bassett, Huneeus, and Greer may be the result of remote advanced nano-mind control technology applied by military-intelligence agencies. Under this alternative, the brains, neurological systems, and personalities of Bassett, Huneeus and Greer are entrained by military-intelligence nano-mind control technologies to act out agendas of these agencies that in turn may be cybernetically directed by predatory dimensional extraterrestrials.” [2]

If in fact as the forensic evidence suggests, Dr. Greer is under brain entrainment and cybernetic control, and hence acting out an agenda of military intelligence agencies and/or predatory dimensional extraterrestrials, then this development may represent a public peril of the first order. It is difficult to speculate whether this brain-mind entrainment may have led to the reported financial irregularities by Dr. Greer. It seems clear, from the threats that former Greer former team members are subjected to, that some sinister force is attempting to ensure that these witnesses do not speak out.

Dr. Greer, the Sirius documentary and the Disclosure Project have a wide public profile. Such an opinion leadership makes Dr. Greer an ideal candidate for promoting “pseudo-disclosure”, or a continuation of demands for “official disclosure” that ensure that whistleblowers from actual, longstanding U.S-Extraterrestrial liaison and visitation programs are sidelined.







[1] UFO/ET Citizen Hearing witnesses Bassett, Huneeus and Greer’s anomalous eye movements may indicate brain-mind entrainment by manipulatory extraterrestrials or advanced military-intelligence nanotechnology as part of a global control agenda

By Alfred Lambremont Webre

http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2013/05/ufo-citizen-hearing-witnesses-bassett-huneeus-and-greers-anomalous-eye-movements-may-indicate-mind-brain-entrainment-by-p.html

[2] Ibid.


[Mike]

this is one of those posts i almost wish i hadnt read. if it's true it's of vital importance, and yet it's got me so bloody paranoid that i'm questioning everything right down to the color of my socks. is the trade-off worth it? i s'pose i should ask 'anonymous' -- this guy seems to know everything! but is anonymous *really* anonymous or just a guy (girl?) who is being manipulated by black ops nano-technology or nefarious otherdimensional entities intent on making me dizzy with confusion?

what came first: the manchurian chicken or the A.I. egg?

i don't mean to be flippant, but this is so convuluted and 'out there' as to render my logic useless, so...on to intuiton..

i think much of it is true. ive seen this man (Greer) so dogmatically nonsensical (the Bill n Kerry interview) that one can only conclude that he is either mind -boggingly stupid or being forced one way or another to stick to a script.

and the drugs he's allegedly skimming to pay for...no doubt came from Lou Ferrigno's war chest. his transformation from super geek to super soldier is worthy of a sci-fi movie. perhaps his cohorts left after witnessing him transform into the incredible hulk.

speaking of the people that left his team: one of them had his brakes cut.....and then what? did he crash into a phone poll? drive into oncoming traffic? im infinitely curious. god this is creepy. but not nearly as creepy as...

"streaks of blood in the foyer." i had a mouse in my bedroom last night and i thought that was bad. Bizarro Greer n Co going Freddy Krueger on this woman seems excessive. what happened to the good ol days when an elegant man dressed in black made subtle threats on your life in an unironically polite way?

jesus. i dunno man. this is too wierd...and yet disturbingly believeable.


p.s. alfred lebremont weber? i was wondering what bruce wayne's butler was up to these days.

[watchZEITGEISTnow]

The Kerry Cassidy call out was essential to wake a lot of people up. For me it was his funding by the Rockerfellas via the Clinton's that threw up red flags for me...

He can now be used as a pin-up for what to look for in a con man. Plain and simple.

[bodhii71]

Unfortunate dimensions due to human frailty and/or a more sinister hand.

From the onset, I felt money was a motivating factor, that his intentions weren't wholly altruistic, yet believed that perhaps despite his quirks, he had a drive to disseminate the truth as he knew it. If he profited along the way, it seemed that in his mind he deserved it for putting his life at risk ( perhaps it was an implied story layered into the entire disclosure project).

Nevertheless, it feels like a gut punch leaving a vacuum where one should be breathing if true... and it does feel true. I don't know about the brain-mind entrainment, I can't get a feel for that. At first when I first heard Alfred Lambremont Webre make those accusations, even with the curious behavior of Steven Bassett accompanying his summation... I had to dissuade myself from believing any such "nonsense".

This road is treacherous and the mines are many, so it appears.

I hesitated to chime in at all, as an after the fact type of commentary... but I think many had that truth meter wildly fluctuating with Steven Greer.

The best outcome for this;

If there is misconduct from Greer and he does have a true desire for disclosure and made a human error of judgment with those around him, admit to what is true.
If there might be some kind of brain-entrainment type of technology used on him, and it could be scientifically proven, that could be the smoking gun that fired a big hole in the truth embargo.

[BrianEn]

All I can say is wow. I'm pretty much speechless. A lot of promises down the toilet. A lot of people got hurt on this one. I hope they find their peace quickly and don't give up.

[Mike]

The Kerry Cassidy call out was essential to wake a lot of people up. For me it was his funding by the Rockerfellas via the Clinton's that threw up red flags for me...

He can now be used as a pin-up for what to look for in a con man. Plain and simple.


agreed. not really a fan of kerry's style, but this was one instance in which it was effective.

plus, watching greer squirm was priceless:)

[Dennis Leahy]

Smells like a hit piece.

I am not in the loop and cannot add anything to Greer's credit or discredit...but this sure smells like a hit piece.

After you read Wade Frazier's account of smooth-talking infiltrators that (astoundingly) backstabbed and front-stabbed Dennis Lee in full view, some of Dennis Lee's closest allies went away with the bad guy. So, I believe a cadre of UFO/free energy geeks could certainly be torn apart from the inside by one of "Godzilla's" A-team members.

If Greer was siphoning funds for drugs and for his personal residence, you don't think he would keep that from the crew?

Stinky, stinky, stinky. I've got $5 that says Greer was set-up by a pro. Anyone want to wager something... say a hat? I must admit, I would not bet eating a hat - again, I'm very much an outsider, but this just smells like a mixture of conniving and cunning (and easy to blame on Greer who has a big ego.)

I probably had no business posting on nothing but a gut feeling, but well, there it is.

Dennis

{edit} Please jump to Todd Hathaway's post in this thread, as I believe that it changes this topic from third-person innuendo to first-person experience: Post # 73 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60223-Steven-Greer-s-core-team-has-apparently-left-him--long-report-by-Alfred-Webre-&p=690586&viewfull=1#post690586)

[Flash]

You named it Denis, Greer has a big ego. When manipulating someone, it is sooooooo easy to use the big egos, fear, it works every single time. You can trigger those based on the person's life experience where fear or ego were implemented, could be ordinary difficult circumstance that everyone meets sometimes in their life. Use it to stir up feelings again, send a few energies or thoughts and voilà, you have the thief, the drug addict, the frighten lier, the person not able to talk anymore, name it.

This is why it is soooooo important to works on one's ego and on one's fears. NO ego, NO fear, no handles for the manipulators. Add to this love and consciousness and the reverse happens, your house (inner) becomes clear and not to be taken.

Greer has been manipulated from years back, as has been most of those showing their head above the water in this ultra convoluted and secret world. Example: Ammach at the present time (other type of manipulation, from outside in my opinion).

[ghostrider]

the level of evolution of each person is different , one thing that earth bound humans have tons of trouble with, E G O ... also we get too attached to our physical bodies, they are just temporary housing , you are not your body, you are much more , if one is truly thinking of the best for the human race, this kind of garbage would never happen, so true the old saying, ye shall know them by their fruits ... just don't cut down the tree because of a few bad apples ...it is sad this happened, another bump in the road for the evolution of disclosure ...

[mojo]

Thanks Dennis I agree, hearsay, second-hand knowledge did anyone ask Dr Greer for his point of view? No, but sure ready do throw him under the bus. I don't even support all the things Greer does but lately Ive been finding myself defending him from attacks on his character, but I would do that for anyone here on the forum, and not because I think Greer is perfect.

[BrianEn]

I'm just going to let the dust settle and see what facts turn up. Facts will be needed before making any assumptions.

[Mike]

Smells like a hit piece.

I am not in the loop and cannot add anything to Greer's credit or discredit...but this sure smells like a hit piece.

After you read Wade Frazier's account of smooth-talking infiltrators that (astoundingly) backstabbed and front-stabbed Dennis Lee in full view, some of Dennis Lee's closest allies went away with the bad guy. So, I believe a cadre of UFO/free energy geeks could certainly be torn apart from the inside by one of "Godzilla's" A-team members.

If Greer was siphoning funds for drugs and for his personal residence, you don't think he would keep that from the crew?

Stinky, stinky, stinky. I've got $5 that says Greer was set-up by a pro. Anyone want to wager something... say a hat? I must admit, I would not bet eating a hat - again, I'm very much an outsider, but this just smells like a mixture of conniving and cunning (and easy to blame on Greer who has a big ego.)

I probably had no business posting on nothing but a gut feeling, but well, there it is.

Dennis


i hope you're right Dennis. i know nothing of this Alfred guy who wrote the article. i'd do a little research but that would be bad for my image.;) i like to pretend i just effortlessly know stuff...

5 dollars? im going to go back into the Avalon guidelines to see if you've broken some sort of rule with that paltry offer...

p.s. thank you for concluding that post with your name, cuz for a second there i thought it was the *other* Dennis Leahy who looks like you and who is equally as astute as you and who also very coincidentally hails from Duluth, Minnesota:)

[Snookie]

IF this is true, I'm sure it will leave those who made contributions to Sirius with a bad taste in their mouths. Hopefully it's not true.

[BrianEn]

IF this is true, I'm sure it will leave those who made contributions to Sirius with a bad taste in their mouths. Hopefully it's not true.


He got my ten bucks. No problem on my end.

[Bill Ryan]

Smells like a hit piece.

I am not in the loop and cannot add anything to Greer's credit or discredit...but this sure smells like a hit piece.

After you read Wade Frazier's account of smooth-talking infiltrators that (astoundingly) backstabbed and front-stabbed Dennis Lee in full view, some of Dennis Lee's closest allies went away with the bad guy. So, I believe a cadre of UFO/free energy geeks could certainly be torn apart from the inside by one of "Godzilla's" A-team members.

If Greer was siphoning funds for drugs and for his personal residence, you don't think he would keep that from the crew?

Stinky, stinky, stinky. I've got $5 that says Greer was set-up by a pro. Anyone want to wager something... say a hat? I must admit, I would not bet eating a hat - again, I'm very much an outsider, but this just smells like a mixture of conniving and cunning (and easy to blame on Greer who has a big ego.)

I probably had no business posting on nothing but a gut feeling, but well, there it is.

Dennis

I'm still digging through all this material (and it's connected, very loosely, with Anya Briggs' claims, here:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60173-Anya-Briggs-Leading-UFO-ET-researchers-mind-controlled-by-manipulative-DOW-Grey-ET-s.....

And there's a really interesting sting in THAT tail! --> http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60173-Anya-Briggs-Leading-UFO-ET-researchers-mind-controlled-by-manipulative-DOW-Grey-ET-s.....&p=689974&viewfull=1#post689974 )

Back to this thread here. Webre's article does look like a hit piece, but my bet (not quite an entire hat at this stage) is that this is purely because Webre does not like Greer one bit. I do know this for a fact.

Indeed, many UFO researchers and activists don't like Greer at all, but very few ever say so openly. That was one of the things that made our Camelot interview with him such a talking point: no-one had ever called him out and challenged him nearly so openly.

We may well reach the point, sometime, when people will look back to re-evaluate that interview in a rather different light.

I would certainly like to have done that one again, for a variety of reasons, but both Kerry and myself have always stood by every word we said. Importantly, Richard Dolan has always stood right with us on every point of debate, and has stated as such on record. This interview we did with him, shortly after our Greer interview, is well worth listening to.

http://projectcamelot.org/Rich_Dolan_on_Steven_Greer_4_August_2009.mp3

The feeling I have is that the Greer tent is indeed beginning to collapse. Once some people speak out, it's possible that more and more will find the courage to do so. There have been whispers about this, and much like it, for quite a long time now. I suspect that we will hear more.

[jagman]

I don't want to disparage Dr.Greer, So i'm waiting for all the facts to come out
but that movie Sirus, Sirusly Sucked.

[gripreaper]

I'm not sure, as these are the only three cards I'm holding, so I think I'll wait for another roll of the dice.

http://pad2.whstatic.com/images/thumb/f/ff/Win-a-Game-of-Clue-Without-Technically-Cheating-Step-9.jpg/550px-Win-a-Game-of-Clue-Without-Technically-Cheating-Step-9.jpg

If I'm going to win this game, I think I might have to go with Professor Plumb did it in the Conservatory with the Candlestick!

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Yes, this is what we saw coming. We hoped Greer would fade away rather than succumb to a big scandal that would discredit so much legitimate work and effort. I'm not surprised because this is the logical conclusion of what we saw back in the day. Just wish it hadn't happened.

[onawah]

I think Webre's reputation (iffy) needs to be taken into account; some of the stuff he has come out with has been seriously wacko.
I will wait until the dust settles on this one.
But I will say that I think Greer has been under a tremendous amount of pressure since the beginning, when he, his closest friend and another close associate were all given a rare kind of cancer by some kind of black op technology (only he survived).
Given the kind of work he is doing, as with anyone in the Disclosure field, it's no wonder if he has begun to crack.
And I wouldn't be at all surprised if there has been a lot of machinations from his enemies to bring that about.
I seriously doubt that all the blame can be laid at his door.
In any case, the work he has done has been on the whole, pretty amazing, and the Disclosure community still owes him a debt of gratitude, imho.
That goes for Stephen Bassett too.

[Dennis Leahy]

i hope you're right Dennis. i know nothing of this Alfred guy who wrote the article. i'd do a little research but that would be bad for my image.;) i like to pretend i just effortlessly know stuff...You had me at "I know nothing"


5 dollars? im going to go back into the Avalon guidelines to see if you've broken some sort of rule with that paltry offer...Mike, you got me to laugh out loud with that one, and it's after 11 at my house. If you made me wake up the mrs. and the baby, you're gonna get yer ass kicked (I will stand back and watch my wife do it) :~)

I did wager $2.3 trillion dollars a while ago, and no one took my challenge yet. (All they have to do is build a copy of WTC Building #7, get a certificate of occupancy, and bring it down with fire at free-fall speed. I even said they could surround the entire building with refractory bricks and use all the fire they want.)


p.s. thank you for concluding that post with your name, cuz for a second there i thought it was the *other* Dennis Leahy who looks like you and who is equally as astute as you and who also very coincidentally hails from Duluth, Minnesota:)Just like New York - so good you have to say it twice. hahahhahaa

Dennis de Duluth

p.s. 48°F here yesterday, June 17. If this keeps up, I'll be Dennis de Davenport or Dennis de Dallas soon

[Debra]

Interesting rainbow of comments here .. I have a lot of respect for Alfred Lambremont Webre and think it is important to contextualise him as a source here. What is his agenda going after Greer?

I have followed Alfred for a few years now. I was drawn to his exopolitics agenda - long before Greer popped onto my radar, after opening up my own enquiry as to how ET/human relations could unfold. And along the way, Alfred has proven - to me - to be a tireless, diligent activist who, unlike Greer, has mostly gone about his work with great generosity, inclusiveness and humility. I think he is worth following - for both his research/articles and his interviews but especially his open door to bring all parties into the discussion. Unlike Greer, who blatantly excludes some very important people in my opinion - like James Gilliland for example, who is doing stellar work to facilitate contact and share his knowledge as well.

I mean let's be asking that question: why does Greer distance himself so much from other members of the community? That for me is so old paradigm and counterproductive and only heightens my confusion about whether I ought trust him. Based on this, I have chosen to put my energy into others who I feel are much more transparent. Simple really. He does not have the exclusive - nobody does.

My intuition tells me that Greer did once have an honorable vision and a clean slate and I applaud the man for his part in helping to take the disclosure movement forward. However, little examples of his actions towards others - his communication style - underscores my caution about his leadership. About four years ago, I started to question his agenda. The turning point for me was seeing him on a video. He was taking a small group of participants through one of his preparing for contact workshops and that is when my warning bells started to sound loudly. His behaviour came across to me as very narcissistic and he was quite rude to these poor people who seemed like stunned field mice. Very cultish, I thought. So, as claims come forward now that Greer is bought and sold and underhanded. I am open to that idea. You bet.

Hey Chinaski ;) if you are interested, here are some links for Alfred:

http://www.exopolitics.com
http://www.exouniversity.org

[Mandala]

I agree with Flash that Greer's ego was way out of control. I've heard from people who paid to go out on his UFO watches, that he was rude and condescending to everyone. I think the guy loves the limelight and being on stage too much to be much of a humanitarian.

Too bad that the good things he brought to light will either be dismissed or discredited if these allegations turn out to be true. Seems like 2 steps forward and 3 steps backwards. Only time will tell, and accurate facts.

[onawah]

I have to agree that Greer has become unlikeable over the past few years, with lots of ego getting in the way.
But I think something that he's been adamant about has been ignored which has probably caused him a lot of frustration and may be the reason for some of his recent behaviour, which others like Bob Dean have said too.
Which is that the Greys and Reptilians are losing their footing here, and the aliens who are predominantly here now are positively oriented, and people need to be less fearful, because fear itself is not helpful, to say the least.
I actually like Alfred Webre, but some of the people he has featured in his interviews like Basiago (with his photos of objects on Mars which he claims are animals, and so on) and Tolec, who makes bizarre claims such as that there will be new ET planets in our solar system soon, I have a really hard time taking seriously.
Anyway, it's six of one and half dozen of the other.
What bothers me is the way that people who have put their lives on the line, however imperfect they may be, are attacked rather than supported by the very people who I think should be more appreciative of the risks they have taken to bring the truth to light.
Not that everything shouldn't be questioned and discernment exercised, but it could be done in a much more compassionate way.
It's not an easy thing even just to be a run of the mill peanut gallery type of conspiracy theorist, much less a prominent whistleblower...

[Limor Wolf]

An offtopic remark -

To whom it my concern,

Please do yourself a favour and avoid being present with Gripreapper, Dennis Leahy and Mike-Chinaski at the same one room, doctors will find it difficult to restore your jaw bones to it's natural place later on


Now, back to Dr. Greer's Jaw bones..

:focus:

[we-R-one]

Dearest Off-World, Benevolent Galatic Beings,

Please hear my prayer. Please don’t come down here, please don’t save us, and please don’t allow for disclosure until we as humans can behave in a more heart-centered manner with less ego and self-centeredness. :moony:

Please forgive us for looking to others rather than within for the answers as we are struggling to learn the importance of ignoring those who claim to hold the key rather than ourselves. Occassionally we will stumble, due to our over-zealous attempts to discover new truths, as our spirits need nurturing during this time of unprecedented growth. Your patience with us is appreciated and we promise continued improvement in our quest to be of love and as one.

In all Sirius-ness and with love,
we-R-one

[sigma6]

Smells like a hit piece.

I am not in the loop and cannot add anything to Greer's credit or discredit...but this sure smells like a hit piece.

After you read Wade Frazier's account of smooth-talking infiltrators that (astoundingly) backstabbed and front-stabbed Dennis Lee in full view, some of Dennis Lee's closest allies went away with the bad guy. So, I believe a cadre of UFO/free energy geeks could certainly be torn apart from the inside by one of "Godzilla's" A-team members.

If Greer was siphoning funds for drugs and for his personal residence, you don't think he would keep that from the crew?

Stinky, stinky, stinky. I've got $5 that says Greer was set-up by a pro. Anyone want to wager something... say a hat? I must admit, I would not bet eating a hat - again, I'm very much an outsider, but this just smells like a mixture of conniving and cunning (and easy to blame on Greer who has a big ego.)

I probably had no business posting on nothing but a gut feeling, but well, there it is.

Dennis

I'm still digging through all this material (and it's connected, very loosely, with Anya Briggs' claims, here:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60173-Anya-Briggs-Leading-UFO-ET-researchers-mind-controlled-by-manipulative-DOW-Grey-ET-s.....

And there's a really interesting sting in THAT tail! --> http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60173-Anya-Briggs-Leading-UFO-ET-researchers-mind-controlled-by-manipulative-DOW-Grey-ET-s.....&p=689974&viewfull=1#post689974 )

Back to this thread here. Webre's article does look like a hit piece, but my bet (not quite an entire hat at this stage) is that this is purely because Webre does not like Greer one bit. I do know this for a fact.

Indeed, many UFO researchers and activists don't like Greer at all, but very few ever say so openly. That was one of the things that made our Camelot interview with him such a talking point: no-one had ever called him out and challenged him nearly so openly.

We may well reach the point, sometime, when people will look back to re-evaluate that interview in a rather different light.

I would certainly like to have done that one again, for a variety of reasons, but both Kerry and myself have always stood by every word we said. Importantly, Richard Dolan has always stood right with us on every point of debate, and has stated as such on record. This interview we did with him, shortly after our Greer interview, is well worth listening to.

http://projectcamelot.org/Rich_Dolan_on_Steven_Greer_4_August_2009.mp3

The feeling I have is that the Greer tent is indeed beginning to collapse. Once some people speak out, it's possible that more and more will find the courage to do so. There have been whispers about this, and much like it, for quite a long time now. I suspect that we will hear more.

Glad you popped this response in Bill,
That info about Webre brings a whole different dimension to it, and not many people would know something like that and because it is coming from you, it is not sounding like a "he said she said",.... but a solid point of reference to start from (and so I shall ha!!) And now given this angle as a reference point...

I'd sayyyyy.... first off this was a great thread for getting up to speed on what could potentially have been a rather confusing mess. But there are still a lot of factors to look at. Greer has one of the most inscrutable personalities, I think he cultivates this to protect himself. He is both noble and thinking of the bigger picture, but then there is this egocentric side. He is personable and open minded, but also manipulative and political and controlling, and so on... I guess the word is enigmatic...

Regarding the threats... that doesn't sound like Greer. (but that depends on your theory of who and what he really is, and let's face it he is a bit of 'spread' across the table... (purposely?) ) But I would say assuming he is still the good guy (with his warts (eccentricities) and all...) I don't see him doing cut brake line jobs... or bizarre blood smears, I don't think he is that naive unless he has gone sociopathic at which point we would have the material for the ultimate sequel to Sirius... (LOL)

Now if the cut brake lines are 100% verified, my first thought was to ask if there is a third party operating in the background? I could very easily see other parties intent on muddying the waters and sowing discontent, and people who cut brake lines tend to have deep 'sophisticated pockets, and I will leave that as that for now...

re: the drug issue... the real estate, I could see Greer doing, the guy has been at this for over 20 years, has a family and wants to leave a legacy, so yeah I could see his personality doing something like that... I just hope he isn't commingling any funds... i.e yes that does amount to a "trust interpretation" question... so specific information would be needed (but again I don't see him that naive in this area, either, so I am going to say although not appreciated by others, they knew they were dealing with a control freak, who also happens to be starring, co-directing and producging.... hellooo!!!) The drug thing doesn't sound right... what is that referring to specifically? ... it sounds like steroids? is that what they are getting at... now that "might" be possible (if at all) otherwise I don't think Greer is a drug user. That doesn't fit at all... Greer has been practicing meditation for decades and I have no doubt has mastered the art. He has no need for drugs and it would be a complete contraindication for him to do so... But I could see him being a steroid user (he likes his physique, and is completely identifies with his 'bodybuilding' I have definitely seen and know this type... his body language just drips that... and it makes me chuckle) and thus it reveals to me something of his vanity (or insecurity in that area...) So it is "possible" he may be trying to hide a secret 'steroid' habit... (think Sylvester Stallone, but not quite so obvious) and someone is over exaggerating it... but again this is all pure speculation because I don't know what "drug" is being referred to hear... but I don't see Greer doing "drugs"...

Also I see what is called a Moses complex, a characteristic attributed to Freud as well. In that great men who become leaders of large movements that are breaking new ground are very possessive and controlling of the "movement" (or institution) they are creating... I definitely see this aspect in him. Disclosure Project is HIS baby, and he wants to be the center of it. His movie once again also focused (almost entirely too much on this self stylization for better or worse) He has this clear view of how he wants to control the image of himself, his organization with himself as front center stage....

So in a very karmic way Greer has brought this on himself because of his personality and style. He is sucking up too much air, his insistence that all ETs are spiritually enlightened and can only do good, with no real explanation for all the bad stuff (except the military did it) which almost sounds like a "religious" explanation... ie. all evil is of the "devil" .... ok sure, but what does that explain?..."

And then there is the politics... there is always something odd about him... that I can never put my finger on it... over all in the big picture, I love the guy... dedicating his life, facing up to the big movers and shakers, practicing his meditation and discovering a medium of contact... almost makes him like a hero in the UFO community...

But then there are the unexplainable "weirdnesses" I remember meeting him in Montreal... and asked him to sign my book, his handwriting struck me as "emotionally immature" and he didn't put anything but his signature, no context, no request, it was almost like he was put off by my request... I thought that was odd... I think he plays everything "paranoid" just to be safe... the result being ... you exhibit a lot of behaviour that will appear bizarre to many outside observers... He could and should be in a position to be more expansive, more freer in how Disclosure Project grows and develops, and if he wants to maintain all ET are benevolent, then explain it in greater detail, etc... it's like he is being machavellian within the whole UFO movement itself (question is can he be blamed for this... he is treating everyone as outside and a potential threat to his 'agenda'

I think the energy scandal is real... now something is definitely not right there... I mentioned before my email request about Keshe... they just blew me off... not even a recognition of the idea!?... this gets back to his ego... there is definitely something more then finding money for free energy research... it has all the makings of a developing a huge institution for cancer research.... and we all know how that works, the more money it sucks in the more guaranteed there will NEVER be a cure, until you have created a huge 800 lb gorilla sucking up AND CONTROLLING all the funds.... Now this is the closest I come to pointing a finger at the negative side, and the implications are potentially explosive along this thread of speculation...

Now this is a scary thought, because the implication is then an exposure of a giant con... why isn't he contacting Keshe? as one of the most obvious moves? Why isn't he makeing contact with any of the big NAMEs we all know like the N machine guy, or Searle, or people like Tom Bearden. It's like he is ONLY interested in creating a technology that HE CONTROLS, I think this is it... like his exposure to the Rothschild taught him how to build a "CANCER RESEARCH" model (INSTITUTION) with their guidance (perhaps...) that would create this MONEY SUCKING monstrosity, and that would mean someone like the Rothschilds would have to be in the background... and of course you can see where all that is leading... and yet what other explanation is there for turning down viable or existing alternatives... ??? and not contacting the myriad of existing and still LIVING big NAMES???

I definitely smell POLITICS and CONTROL issues here...

And I have said this before and I will say it again... he reminds me of someone who is gay, now this may sound petty and biasing, but if it turns out he is and he has been hiding it all this time (or bi...) and I got that feeling again when I saw his movie... (did you get a load of his 'security' guy.... ???) (and btw I thought the movie was pretty underwhelming, I mean where the hell were the writers on this one? more nickel and diming... point is, IF he is...(bi I guess it would have to be) I think it significant because I would have to completely re-evaluate his psychological profile... (and that may be a little stereotypical in general (although I don't think it is but I am also specifically applying it to him as an individual as well...) but it would change my whole perception of who he is and my evaluation of the full spectrum (or distribution of his possible behaviours) Again something there that I just can't put my finger on...

OK I know this doesn't answer any questions... but I am just putting out my two cents... The only way to explain all this is I think he is playing more than one side....
and if he can "commune" with aliens... how much in touch with them is he... who says he has to be mind controlled by the militaries, the mind control would have to come from them... that or very very powerful persuasive influence...

[Ria]

I have heard rumours of odd behaviour for some time; example two teams had cordially asked permission to film and record his lecture, this was granted. One team came a great distance and expense with all the equipment, hotel, it entailed, only to be told and threatened they could not film or record by a mussel bound body guard, no amount of reasoning prevailed.

The Sirius documentary, was utter crud. I was livid that he had the temerity to ask for donations. You could do a better job compelling internet material (which has already been done)
Dr. Steven Greer is now a schmuck of no standing and none of what has been said surprises me.

[Nerge]

You know, it gets to the point where there's so much of the 'brown stuff' thrown around, with arguments and counter 'evidence' shown - who knows what the real truth is. If I was trying to keep the whole disclosure thing under wraps I'd be popping a vein laughing with how divided the alternative community is and how much attention they invest in being divided, in one form or another - pull a few strings and watch 'em go at it! ;)

My advice and what I'm feeling is 'screw it all' and go find your own truth. :)
Pay your attention and energy on what you yourself can do and change - I'm personally fed up with all the silly games now tbh, it's simply playing into their hands - I'll spend my energy in other ways thank you. :)

No discredit to Bill or anyone else on here, your own free will and all, but going down these same old roads is probably not going to move things forward in a positive direction. I understand some reasons why it's done, for education and awareness sakes, but I'd say just pay attention to where your energy is being directed and spent.

Anyway - I've probably already paid too much attention to this is and contradicted what I've said above (lol) as ironic as that is. :)

[Gardener]

None of this is a surprise, wasn't going to join the thread *sigh*. The Interview B & K did with Greer spoke volumes and confirmed what my antenna had suggested.
Just wanted to mention that Richard Dolan wrote 2 exceptionally well researched and balanced books UFO and the National Security State; Book one Chronology of a cover up 1941-1973, (2000) book two The Cover-up Exposed 1973-1991. (2009) At the time of the second books publication he was starting work on the third book 1991- forwards..............enter some guy and a joint effort at a book called 'After Disclosure' and the third book gets put onto the back burner and suddenly this well balance historian gets sucked into making showman style vids and into the Greer/disclosure crew. The third book has not materialised and RD seems to have been co-opted and derailed from his more important work. Job done.

[Sunny-side-up]

Yes, this is what we saw coming. We hoped Greer would fade away rather than succumb to a big scandal that would discredit so much legitimate work and effort. I'm not surprised because this is the logical conclusion of what we saw back in the day. Just wish it hadn't happened.

Yes, same here...

[InCiDeR]

hmmm... another move on the disclosure chess board. It seems that both sides running out of time on the clock. Who is playing white and black is hard to tell. Hopefully we find out before checkmate... :chess:

[The Truth Is In There]

i'm not surprised. james bartley already pointed out years ago that steven greer is a reptilian host.

[mgray]

None of this is a surprise, wasn't going to join the thread *sigh*. The Interview B & K did with Greer spoke volumes and confirmed what my antenna had suggested.
Just wanted to mention that Richard Dolan wrote 2 exceptionally well researched and balanced books UFO and the National Security State; Book one Chronology of a cover up 1941-1973, (2000) book two The Cover-up Exposed 1973-1991. (2009) At the time of the second books publication he was starting work on the third book 1991- forwards..............enter some guy and a joint effort at a book called 'After Disclosure' and the third book gets put onto the back burner and suddenly this well balance historian gets sucked into making showman style vids and into the Greer/disclosure crew. The third book has not materialised and RD seems to have been co-opted and derailed from his more important work. Job done.

Very interesting take on Richard Dolan. I had not put that together about his research for the most current book being sidelined by "other projects". Well done.

As for Greer my sense from years ago was this man had multiple agendas and spoke from his ego, not his heart.

[Helvetic]

Don't waste your time on this circus.

[The One]

I would say this if its proven that he's done what's being said then i am really saddened by this after speaking with him recently

I would also like to say this whatever comes of this Greer love him or hate him as awakened more people than you can imagine to this phenomena.Seems to me people have already passed judgement.

I will wait and see

Cheers

[Soda]

For me it was his funding by the Rockerfellas via the Clinton's that threw up red flags for me...

.
He admitted this himself. Anyone who trusted him after that....well then....they don't understand the machine and power behind all of this.

[Agape]

i'm not surprised. james bartley already pointed out years ago that steven greer is a reptilian host.

He is benevolent , what you call 'reptillian' ( it's not a graceful term considering but lets try to remain impartial ) who feels strong compassion for human race .
He is a renegade , someone who refused to go with his society laws and convictions about not-interferring with human evolution ,
the golden middle of their civilisation are not 'evil' , they're very advanced compared to current mankind, very proud of themselves though , very well organized .

Disobedience to the collective is not tolerated . They do hold a level contempt for civilisations they perceive as barbaric and idiotic .

So if Steven Greer is indeed, 'one of them' ..what he does on earth is at His own risks .

No matter how well he was received in human society, and no matter his conscious efforts to improve and rise the awareness level on many fronts ..
he won't be feeling totally comfortable to be with, for casual humans and has a difficulty to understand why do 'they function' the way they do.


For Galactic Federation :cantina:

[Ernie Nemeth]

Honestly. One look at Greer's "stuff" and it is clear to see he hasn't got it "right". He's grasping at straws. That's why Sirius sucked. He's got nothing. This again should be obvious but we always like a good yarn. It's what us conspiracy nuts do - look for flys in the ointment.

Matters not what side they are playing, we love to get into the dirt.

Steve couldn't get the goods so he made most of it up. What's new? Look at his "dead man's switch", what a load of crap.

Then again, I believe he believes...

[Lifebringer]

Face it, we all saw the signs of Steven's ego monsterize, as he got more and more attention. He's a take control guy and while I always hear him speak of a wife, I can't help but think to her, he's a egomaniacal tyrant when he is at home also, and she probably welcomes him going off and giving that ego to someone, other than her.

Ego is a horrible active force if going within, is not practiced in the reaction or action in life. Steven fell prey to the drugs, and greed. Coke I suspect, because that's when ego runs amok.
Let us pray he is humbled to realize the mistake he's making. Also know that his "et present contact" probably left him a long time ago. I keep "feeling," that maybe, Steven left clues to being used. Like: "My Dad put the guidance system in for the Apollo? Exposure in the circles of deceit? I picked up on that when he first said it, and then going to dinner with Congressional and military positioned people? Just "invited?"

I like the hawk, watch and observe, and being exposed and experienced in the recover from coke addiction, I saw it when he would be on the stage in lecture. Surely, others here have "felt/noticed" the same thing?

Its not the drugs, that's to bring excitement and anxiety, it's the ego that is running amok.
Healings for those who were his team, and Godspeed on their continued quest. When contacted by your et friends, don't allow Steven to be present. In his state, he could throw quite a few monkey wrenches in the matrix, if he's not given what he wants. He strikes me as a once spoiled son, because his family was above middle class income, and that has also been unleashed.

[GoodETxSG]

Well if this is all true it will do wonders for this field. That is the last thing we need at this point no matter how/what you think of Dr. Greer personally.

[jaybee]

.

I always thought Alfred Webre was more than a bit iffy....and this hit piece has confirmed it for me.

I think some disinformation pushers get themselves deeply embedded into the 'scene'... but are sometimes called upon to do a big 'hit' on a major player.

To confuse and divide and rule...

I consider Stanton Friedman's big hit on Bob Lazar to be in the same vein.


If I had to chose between who to believe.... Webre or Greer...it would be Greer.


Unless I'm being too kind about Webre and he has just been weak and duped...:p

[Lifebringer]

Steven's ego won't allow him to admit he's lost control of the coke/reactions, because the drug addicted also ego, protects its source of supply.

That's probably why he's observed other sites surviving by asking for a donation here or there, but to come out ask for funding and buy real estate with it, means the ego is materialistic also and feels superior enough to say: "I did this or that and, I deserve these things. If it wasn't for me, none of this would be happening."

Prayers for stability and a new humble awareness. Steven will lose his ability to meditate, if the coke doesn't stop, and maybe already has. Ego/I/Separational duality, isn't allowed in the dimensions, is it?
Get it together Steven, it's bigger than your ego, it's ALL there is. Hear this Steven, and know we love you, but the choices are yours to make, for good or bad intent. Lies and deceit, are but a bite of the apple/gateway, to the long road down in abyss.

[tnkayaker]

did anyone consider this may all be set up to make ufo believers look like kooks? greer certainly had alot of press and momentum in his camp/campaign to bring so called truths to light, but now so typically human to fall in this manner, its all very interesting , i was a bit suspicious of him along with others but i did think he had a good thing going, now i just feel he may have bolstered his own mission a bit too far too fast and is like alot of us frustrated , not to mention i think his own self got to himself, basking in the light of popularity for a previous no-no subject. its a shame really, peace,dennis

[sigma6]

I would like to add that my above post is my speculation, from my first gut response, my first impression from reading this thread, based on my 'limited perception'. All that I have read here, combined with my own thoughts to date. A burst of speculation, logical analysis of limited suppositions and my own inner perceptions. I hope others know how to deal with that, it amounts to what is known as... an opinion, highly speculative, I hope it fuels more thought and analysis. It is what it is.

Against the backdrop of his lifetime of achievement ... this "article" that has all the potential of a "hit piece" (as much as I find Webre likable and even fascinating, he isn't exactly what I would call the epitome of pure reason, nor do I find him completely transparent either. Wasn't he previously a "lawyer"? I would like to hear more of Bill's take about him on that... (what'dya say gang!... :)


That said, it is interesting to attempt to distill some common denominators that have been expressed. We seem to have the following (am I missing any?)

"ego issue" - very broad and hard to qualify, as the word "ego" ALWAYS is... (since the word itself has never been properly defined imo, i.e. has multiple connotations... I find it a useful 'place marker' at best in analysing specific psychological contexts, it is a slippery but still a useful theoretical concept in my mind, one shouldn't underestimate the complexity of individual human souls, their psychology or philosophy )

"multiple agendas" - a natural given the quantity and scope of achievement, the nature of his personality, the potential network of people (and aliens!) he may be in contact with, so it begs a lot of questions there...

"alien/military/elite influence" - which brings into question, given such a wide scope 'variables' from every day CSETI wannabes to high powered elites and government officials, who may or may not have black op ties, to a self professed high level meditations as a form of "non local consciousness" type communications with 'other worldly entities'... it is well known that this type of altered state of consciousness DOES make one open to EXTERNAL influence, both alien, and who's to say they didn't build a special device just for the good Dr? especially after the failed first murder attempt... something more subtle perhaps? and all this against being in the public spotlight for so many years... (whew!...)


It is certainly hard to now fully grasp 'the ultimate truth out there' that "ALL is ONE", that so many profess to know and understand. What does this all mean? Especially for someone like Dr Greer. Which brings up another obvious attribute by definition...

"Enigma" - Just these limited factors alone, all conspire to create a more complex personality than meets the eye. We are truly judging from our personal limitations and egos and limited biases. I really am not sure which side I fall on. I can honestly say it literally jumps back and forth in his case...

But!... When I am confronted with such incredible ambiguity, which this certainly qualifies for... (complex ambiguity at that!) One has to be extremely cautious... by definition. There is both good and bad here. We are all "human" (whatever that turns out to be in the end) And damn him!... but he has accomplished a lot in this movement... whatever he is about, Dr Steven Greer is one resilient human being. I do want him to land on the right side, but I would like to see him 'grow' more as a human being too. Despite his greatness on the political and public side and his discipline of 'meditative practices' ... I would like to see him grow more spiritually. Not through his image on the big screen or his books, but inside, where no one else can see. I think there are major unresolved issues in there somewhere. His near death experience, Sherries death, the constant frustration and rejection of his mission, the failed murder attempt on himself. If he doesn't completely incorporate these things and comes to terms. He will divide himself against himself ultimately. I think that struggle may still be going on...

There is still that all too universal human frailty issue. At the end of the day, he is just one man. I have learned one thing from being a "successful" weight trainer. Like all things. It is addictive. It can be a crutch. It engenders a lot of undeserved or misplaced respect, similar to the automatic license men give to sexy gorgeous blonds. I don't think he necessarily over pursues it excessively. And I never thought about it until now... the 'drug' issue did trigger this speculation and insight. The only sure observation is that it appears he has kept it up continuously all throughout his illustrious career. And for many good reasons I can imagine. That said, it is still indicative of a certain personality type, and creates the potential for a host of addictive traits, let's face it. It is about physical body identification, It is a form or excessive artificial stimulation relative to the actual external environment. It tends to promote constant identification with self nurturing, my body, my nutrients, my schedule, etc. There is a fine line here.

I believe there is real physical and spiritual value in fasting, as one example, something completely the opposite of "weight training". It is can be good to 'fall out' of practice and occasionally experience "physical human weakness" once in awhile. It is very humbling, and will always expose you to certain truths you wouldn't experience otherwise... Especially if you wish to develop more subtle and spiritual values, just saying... I believe humility will open your perception to a whole other world. It's the hardest lesson, the one we all constantly have to re-align with. A discipline unto itself. The one we all fail. (I hope that isn't too 'un American')

[Agape]

Honestly. One look at Greer's "stuff" and it is clear to see he hasn't got it "right". He's grasping at straws. That's why Sirius sucked. He's got nothing. This again should be obvious but we always like a good yarn. It's what us conspiracy nuts do - look for flys in the ointment.

Matters not what side they are playing, we love to get into the dirt.

Steve couldn't get the goods so he made most of it up. What's new? Look at his "dead man's switch", what a load of crap.

Then again, I believe he believes...


Quite like many of us , he's trying to prove things at all cost because He knows they exist , he's experienced them, he knows they are provable if we all tried and worked hard ( but we never will because we are so lazy :sleep: ) .

The problem is with the level of logic on where human civilisation is able to reclaim their connection to the Stars is a complex level of logic ,
logic too has levels which is beyond grasp of many people unfortunately still struggling with how to get from A to B then C and back without mistake .

Then you have millions of people , literally who think on more sophisticated levels embracing whole complexes of information at the same time and working along those lines which the ones in first group can not get right,
in the same life time.

ETc etc.

So if we are to embark on this path of reconnecting mankind to their own history, their own extra-terrestrial origins, memory, abilities and so on,
and to do this without gross mistakes and exodus of the civilisation,

it takes ages of evolution, can be supported in certain ways but can not be forced .

You can give information to people but not the intellect they need to proceed it. You can give them laws but they need to know their own conscience to be able to make use of laws good way.


So any independent individual coming into this automatically gets to pickle because you can only explain truth to people on certain level,
you can promise things will take good course ( but they may not be able to see it during their lifetime ),
and when they start pushing you for 'proofs' and the proofs do not exist immediately on level of their understanding and they'd have to invest lots of effort to meet the criteria for acquiring proofs,
you're called out .

It also simply shows certain hidden tendencies and characteristic features of the race/kind of entities intervening,
we all have some weaknesses .


I think, they always , in history as well ..tried to invent some proofs and enact icons so that people were happy while the real 'proofs' had to be hidden because they'd not be enough to satisfy anybody .

Pros and cons

:thumb:

[Lifebringer]

Speak for yourself. This type of spiritual battle calls for "ALL" to be on board. We ourselves are just beginning to learn, there is much more we don't know. WE need help, we've tried the vote and will continue, but some people like the cheerleading of the warmachomachine, and conquest like a warrior approach to running the world, more than they love us or the planet.

NO turning back, to "perhaps if's." I asked Creator and God to make themselves known to these generations who are willing to do the right thing, but have been held back from using our God given freedoms or talents for the good of the world.

[Maia Gabrial]

But don't you all see that it's about Disclosure getting blocked again....? Anyone involved with it is targeted in some way or another. Why should it be different with Greer? Maybe he IS being mind controlled and/or his tight circle's been infiltrated. Shut him up or shut him down.... The puppet masters don't want disclosure. Period.
That's why Disclosure has to come from the ET's themselves because we're all caught up in the intrigues....

[Another1]

The human tendency for hero worship is natural. Natural enough to effect even highly educated people who pride themselves on making good queries and investigating on their own. We pick our favorites (experts) to tell other people about when making a point in a debate. We know full well that dis-info is the rule in most matters guberment, infiltrators gaming us is standard practice yet, we pick one or two we just know for sure are true blue and it's rare we don't get bit.

I was excited about the disclosure project and used Mr. Greer's campaign as a doorway to bring the subject of UFOs up in new crowds. The 200 professionals beside him gave me the confidence to speak up more. Even though that first presentation was before the world in a respectable venue, it was really only people like us gathered here who knew about it happening. Then poof, 911 took over the news.

The timing of it all was just too perfect imo.

I think the UFO community was thrown a bone to gnaw on, perfectly timed with 911.

Mr. Greer could be the most upstanding human on Earth and made to look like a fool quite easily by the same kind of people who could have arranged for his press club event to occur when it did.

Personally, I don't care for the kind of ego many like him begin displaying once people begin thinking of them as an expert. The movement becomes all about them and they slap quite well at people who ask unpopular questions.

For the sake of our credibility as a community, I hope he comes out as clean or at least innocent of ill intent. Any one of us can be duped.

[jaybee]

.


awwwww that nice man Alfred Webre [/sarcasm].....has got his hands on and

released Greer's 'Dead Man's Trigger'..

http://exopolitics.blogs.com/files/steve.greer.dead.mans.trigger.pdf


That begins...

'This is Dr Steven Greer, and if you are hearing this, it is because I have either
been killed or am missing, or I have illegally been imprisioned on some trumped up
charges that have been confabulated by people who want to stop our work.'


perhaps he should have added....


or it is released into the public domain by a duplicitous double-dealer...



It's sinking in a bit more now about what the premature release of this document
means to Steven Greer.


Never mind the baloney about ....


“The people who have left Greer's team are afraid for their lives. One of them had his brakes cut, etc.”

The confidential Exopolitics.com source also stated that former Greer associate Dr. Jan Bravo had been threatened following her disaffiliation with Dr. Greer.

“Jan Bravo said that she came home today to find on her front foyer some streaks of blood...and it didn't come from the dog. She considered it a warning and no more.”



It is now Greer's life that is more at risk...???

nice work Webre.....:nono:


.


.

[onawah]

Thanks for that, Agape. I have a friend who identifies herself as a positive Reptilian, not an easy person to understand, and very, very different from the norm.
Their existence is something that gets sidelined all too often.
And from what my friend says, the positive ones deserve a lot of credit for helping, at great personal cost, to keep the negatives from doing even more harm to what they consider to be "lesser" races, such as humankind.
Not an easy thing to be, on Earth at this time, particularly one with a high profile.
The way you describe him helps me to understand better why I sense that Greer is basically heroic, but has a very hard time understanding and operating in the human playing field he is on.
He certainly appears to be on a steep learning curve in this lifetime.



i'm not surprised. james bartley already pointed out years ago that steven greer is a reptilian host.

He is benevolent , what you call 'reptillian' ( it's not a graceful term considering but lets try to remain impartial ) who feels strong compassion for human race .
He is a renegade , someone who refused to go with his society laws and convictions about not-interferring with human evolution ,
the golden middle of their civilisation are not 'evil' , they're very advanced compared to current mankind, very proud of themselves though , very well organized .

Disobedience to the collective is not tolerated . They do hold a level contempt for civilisations they perceive as barbaric and idiotic .

So if Steven Greer is indeed, 'one of them' ..what he does on earth is at His own risks .

No matter how well he was received in human society, and no matter his conscious efforts to improve and rise the awareness level on many fronts ..
he won't be feeling totally comfortable to be with, for casual humans and has a difficulty to understand why do 'they function' the way they do.


For Galactic Federation :cantina:

[The One]

God forbid if anything like that came out in regards to David Icke. We all know how many people love him.Now that's going to be interesting to see what comes of his new venture.

I used to donate a monthly amounts to Lloyd Pie until they asked for something like 5 million for a new research centre.For some the money train keeps going once they have reached a goal they set another one.We all know how important some things are but at what cost

From now on i will follow my own path and leave a trail ;)

[jiminii]

Thanks for that, Agape. I have a friend who identifies herself as a positive Reptilian, not an easy person to understand, and very, very different from the norm.
Their existence is something that gets sidelined all too often.
And from what my friend says, the positive ones deserve a lot of credit for helping, at great personal cost, to keep the negatives from doing even more harm to what they consider to be "lesser" races, such as humankind.
Not an easy thing to be, on Earth at this time, particularly one with a high profile.
The way you describe him helps me to understand better why I sense that Greer is basically heroic, but has a very hard time understanding and operating in the human playing field he is on.
He certainly appears to be on a steep learning curve in this lifetime.



i'm not surprised. james bartley already pointed out years ago that steven greer is a reptilian host.

He is benevolent , what you call 'reptillian' ( it's not a graceful term considering but lets try to remain impartial ) who feels strong compassion for human race .
He is a renegade , someone who refused to go with his society laws and convictions about not-interferring with human evolution ,
the golden middle of their civilisation are not 'evil' , they're very advanced compared to current mankind, very proud of themselves though , very well organized .

Disobedience to the collective is not tolerated . They do hold a level contempt for civilisations they perceive as barbaric and idiotic .

So if Steven Greer is indeed, 'one of them' ..what he does on earth is at His own risks .

No matter how well he was received in human society, and no matter his conscious efforts to improve and rise the awareness level on many fronts ..
he won't be feeling totally comfortable to be with, for casual humans and has a difficulty to understand why do 'they function' the way they do.


For Galactic Federation :cantina:

the thing is they know what's on this planet ... some of the most powerful spirit beings in the universe are trapped here ... and they will do anything to keep them trapped ... because they know what will happen if any of them fully wakes up ... and that is why they will go all ends to keep us asleep


jim

[Lifebringer]

Let us focus on removing the mechanisms that may be implanted and see what comes of it.

Can't hurt, and if it's true, it will be a warning to those who are doing this, that WE control our destiny and don't like our fellow humans getting harmed or "enslaved by technology."

[indigopete]

I just wanted to say something about the general background to this. In particular, Steven Greer's "all aliens are friendly" assertion.

This has kind of been the nub of a lot of the controversy ever since the famous Camelot interview with him. But I think we are falling into the classic trap of the old "binary" thinking that programs most of us from birth.

Think of a jungle - there is all kinds of life in a Jungle. From pond life, plant life and cell life to snakes lions and tigers. Nowadays, although the latter 3 are considered predatory and a danger to humans, we don't actually think of them as "evil" or "wanting to do us harm". It's a question of understanding and familiarity with the species rather than one of judgement.

I always think that that metaphor of the jungle is a good way to think of the unknown in general. We can see it in different ways:

[1] - from the macroscopic perspective of human zoological interest it's an example of wilderness, nature, diversity, harmony and something to be cherished and conserved. All species are equally important and respected. There are no "good / evil" species even though some are predatory - its a question of survival and natural balance.

[2] - from the microscopic perspective of a heard of wilderbeast, a nearby pack of hungry lions most definitely is malevolent and to be avoided at all costs

If we now switch to the concept of (potential) alien visitations and just reflect for a moment on how utterly vast that whole concept is, it's not surprising that there will be a huge range of views as to how that concept if perceived. As the example above shows, those views don't necessarily need to be consistent for them all to have validity.

My conclusion is to take things at face value. I've watched a lot of Greer stuff and it has informed me. I'm not sitting there thinking "is he trying to dupe me" or anything - because I read loads of sources not just him. As far as I'm concerned, Greer's entitled to his perspective of because I can resolve the conflict between him and Kerry (or at least "his view and Kerry's") in my own mind by labelling his view a Case [1] above and Kerry's a Case [2].

I mean, surely we can consult our own intuition about this. Saying "all Lions are good" has a philosophically valid ring to it because they are creatures of nature, well understood by humans and generally live in harmony with their environment. On the other hand, you'd probably take a different perspective if you were on the wrong side of a hungry one 10 feet away. It's all relative.

If Greer's been caught with his hands in the till then that should just be dealt with like any other regular case - innocent until proven guilty. It's not exactly uncommon :)

Meanwhile, I don't think this should become the next OJ Simpson "show trial" of the exopolitics community, otherwise it really will derail the agenda.

[donk]

To Pete's comment, I think the analogy has to factor in the level of consciousness...so jungle where a lion (or other "animal") is on "top of the food chain" doesn't really apply...because the important aspect that gets lost in that discussion is awareness and amount of information.

That is why a cattle anaology would work better. Or factoring into the jungle, humans that can impose their will on the jungle anyway they choose: Harvest the resources (at the expense of the already existing life their), manipulate the choice animals to their desires, for fun or to have some creatures love/depend/do tricks for them, to directly take their energy, benignly observe and study, or even protect it--if some external or even internal threat was introduced.

To not incorporate a "top of the food chain" more advance than we are is a folly. Yes we are animals, but we are animals with more information and awareness (we've eaten from the tree of knowledge) of the creative power of our consciousness (and the destructivness that comes with it). A domesitc animal is as manipulable as we are, maybe more so, once removed from the "wild", and introduced to the reality we impose on it. I find these observations always get lost when I have this discussion in real life, and just wanted to interject it to prevent that from happening here.

I've always had an issue with Greer's insistence of only peaceful and benign watchers and protectors, to make humans the most "advanced" conscious beings capable of doing harm to "lesser" beings. I think the programming is deep with that idea...

[Bill Ryan]

.

I always thought Alfred Webre was more than a bit iffy....and this hit piece has confirmed it for me.



But suppose what Webre reports is true?

I know Todd Hathaway (he used to be an Avalon member, btw). He stated to me quite a while back that he had been unfairly and potentially publicly smeared by Greer's "Dead Man's Trigger" document.

The PDF was not publicly available at that time. Now it's been released (as compiled scanned images of the pages), and many people will have downloaded it, we have that in black and white. Download the document here (http://exopolitics.blogs.com/files/steve.greer.dead.mans.trigger.pdf), and what Greer writes about Todd Hathaway begins on the second page of the text (the third page of the PDF).

And how did Webre get that document, unless someone who is or was in Greer's team gave that to him? And if so, why would they have done that?

Our opinions and reactions about whether something feels 'iffy' or not may not be relevant. Sometimes, we find ourselves supporting someone out of our belief system, or what we feel comfortable with, or what makes us secure and gives us hope. And then later, we realize that our hope and trust was misplaced.

[Soulboy]

The weirdest thing about Greer (to me) is the fact that he goes on and on and on about meditation and the Vedas, both of which essentially necessitate as well as cause, a dissolution of our ego-mind state of being. Greer isn't exactly the poster boy for that, but more like a scary reminder of how bad things can get when your ego is in charge of you entirely. It's almost like a priest in a gold-adorned church praying to the congregation that no rich man will ever enter the kingdom of heaven...


Edit: Someone on this thread asked why he never contacts or speaks about Keshe. If what this guy says is true, and who knows if it is, then the fact that the country of his birth has a somewhat difficult standing in the US and with Greer's alleged backers/ handlers. Just a thought, but could be a contributing factor. Why would they try to get this out and let someone from that country be the hero or even sit on the table for that matter

[indigopete]

I've always had an issue with Greer's insistence of only peaceful and benign watchers and protectors, to make humans the most "advanced" conscious beings capable of doing harm to "lesser" beings. I think the programming is deep with that idea...

Fair enough. Regarding the "farming" and jungle manipulation aspects of your remarks, I accept those but the point I was really making is that I don't think there's a need to make so much out of the fact that he says they're all friendly.

I mean people shouldn't be hanging on his every word to such an extent that they they see it as an "absolute" and get upset if he's wrong. They are free to make up their own minds as he has made up his.

Ultimately it's our own consciousnesses that keep us imprisoned, not a bunch of aliens. If the sheep on a farm woke up one day and decided they were being "kept" and that they didn't like it there wouldn't be much the farmer could do about it.

Similarly, the hypothetical relationship between humans and aliens will be characterised by our relative levels of consciousness, not by whether they are good / evil, malevolent or benevolent.

P

[donk]

But to take away the awareness part...that's huge. Instead of jungle, how about society: the tigers and gorillas are the top people we are allowed to "see", bill gates and W and such...you want to dismiss the presence of black ops or puppet masters? You don't think they can manipulate our consciousness/reality? And are above using a Greer to do it?

[indigopete]

But to take away the awareness part...that's huge. Instead of jungle, how about society: the tigers and gorillas are the top people we are allowed to "see", bill gates and W and such...you want to dismiss the presence of black ops or puppet masters? You don't think they can manipulate our consciousness/reality? And are above using a Greer to do it?

Ah !! Excellent point. We're seeing the same thing but from a glass half empty / half full perspective on who has the power.

According to the original teachings of the great Ickemeister in residence, the Gates / Rockefeller type "manipulators" are not there because they're manevolent, they're there because we want them there. i.e. they are a symptom of our aggregate consciousness-deficiency in the area of wanting to take control over our own personal lives. If millions of us suddenly did that in a small way, the manipulators would disappear in an instant - a bit like a flock of starlings that can change direction in a millisecond.

Think of it another way - if you leave your garden alone for a few weeks, weeds will grow. From the perspective of consciousness thinking, you can look at that 2 ways:

[1] - as an unconscious absence of will (to clear the weeds)

[2] - as a conscious presence of will (to allow the weeds to grow)

People will interpret your actions in one of those 2 ways and both will be equally valid.

You might see it as [1] and feel that you "forgot" to weed the garden. On the other hand, if you were looking after the garden on behalf of a friend, they will probably take option [2] and want to clober you.

Similarly, the wisdom of "great Ickedome on high" has it that the "elite" have simply floated into the blank space of our collective consciousness. If we want them to go away we don't need to fight them, just become conscious of them and they'll disappear immediately.

Not a bad deal if you can get it :)

(I agree with him b.t.w.)

[jaybee]

.

I always thought Alfred Webre was more than a bit iffy....and this hit piece has confirmed it for me.



But suppose what Webre reports is true?

I don't think it is....

Suppose it is all total BS...where does that leave Webre?



I know Todd Hathaway (he used to be an Avalon member, btw). He stated to me quite a while back that he had been unfairly and potentially publicly smeared by Greer's "Deal Man's Trigger" document.

well he would say that wouldn't he if he was a plant...


The PDF was not publicly available at that time. Now it's been released (as compiled scanned images of the pages), and many people will have downloaded it, we have that in black and white. Download the document here (http://exopolitics.blogs.com/files/steve.greer.dead.mans.trigger.pdf), and what Greer writes about Todd Hathaway begins on the second page of the text (the third page of the PDF).

And how did Webre get that document, unless someone who is or was in Greer's team gave that to him? And if so, why would they have done that?


obviously there are some deep infiltrators in the 'Greer Team'..for that to happen..

Because a man like Greer is certainly a number one target after the Disclosure Project, his alternative energy stuff and now the Sirius Documentary...


Our opinions and reactions about whether something feels 'iffy' or not may not be relevant.

It's relevant to me... when trying to figure out what's going on with it all.



Sometimes, we find ourselves supporting someone out of our belief system, or what we feel comfortable with, or what makes us secure and gives us hope. And then later, we realize that our hope and trust was misplaced.

Yes...and sometimes we are right....not that you have any idea what my belief system is... and it would be a miracle if you did, because with this subject I don't have one...:)...I'm still learning.

One can't be blown this way and that with every new 'revelation'... the whole UFO/ET scene has its fair share of infiltrators, fakes and disinformation. I try and stay true to myself and not get overly influenced by others.

But I do trust my own judgement..when gathering info and doing research.

People like Greer will be targeted all the time.

I think his heart is in the right place.

This latest attack was probably to discredit the Sirius documentary as much as him.

Now when people do a search about it...the Webre accusations.. are repeated all over the place. It will confuse people. And that is the intent, IMO.


The accusations appear to be.... he said, she said, he said etc etc.

If any actual evidence turns up, that can be looked at.


cheers





late edit to correct some bad grammar....

[Etherios]

i always didnt feel well with Greers talks. Too much ego in his movement and attitude. Also he never ever gave any result he was always in theory... no action especially in the energy field.

On the ET field, having all GOOD ET is just plain boring (if i can use that word). The universe is so huge that there should be all kinds of races out there.

We keep seeing revelations in politics and in exo politics ... is this the start of the Apocalypse? (revelation in Greek language)

[jagman]

Regardless if these allegations are true or not, Dr. Greer has made
himself so unlikable to many in our community that this is probably
the final nail in the proverbial coffin for Dr.Greer.I wish him well.
If he is on coke I hope he gets treatment.

[Kimberley]

I have had the pleasure of talking with and communicating with Alfred Weber from time to time for a couple of years now.

I like him and trust him. So I wrote to him this morning with some questions and he just wrote back to me. So I will post our conversation here for the rest of us.

Notice he linked to this thread :-)

:grouphug:

********************************

Hello Alfred,

Expecting you are well.

I am contacting you because I am very sad to have read the below (the OP article in this thread) article. I am not seeing the date it was posted however it seems to have been the beginning of June.

Anyway I have a few questions for you and before you answer I would like permission to post your response if I am given permission. I will not post it if you do not want me to. I am a reporter that will not report with out permission. However either way I personally need to know something. And if it needs to stay only with me I am fine with that.

How did you view Dr Greer before doing this investigation?

Did you start this investigation on your own or did someone come to you with this information?

In the article it states that some of the people you contacted did not want to reply...how many people involved with Dr Greer confirmed these allegations either on the record or off the record?

As I said I am very sad to know this about Dr Greer.

I appreciate you and your reporting. And I appreciate you answering my questions.

Thank you.

All the best!

Kimberley

****************************************

Kimberley Hi! Thank you. In March 2013 whistleblower intermediaries from insiders formerly affiliated with Dr. Greer approached Exopolitics.com with information and the "Dead Man's Trigger". We released the information and document after the premiere of the film Sirius and after specific conditions had been met. All the witness statements we have are in the article (BELOW). Dr. Jan Bravo communicated to us through 2 independent intermediaries as reported. The Sirius film crew reported through intermediaries as in the article. Dr. Ted Loder never replied to our inquiry during the investigation. On June 5, 2013 an intermediary who had contacted Drs Loder and Greer sent us an update stating that Dr. Ted Loder could not confirm the allegations, and stating that Dr. Greer considered the allegations "nonsense". I hope this update helps.

As to my support of the Disclosure Project, I had initially been approached by Dr. Greer in 2000 to be a Disclosure Project witness, and my Disclosure Project Testimony was video-taped in California in August 2000. On August 30, 2000 I swore an affidavit for the Disclosure Project about my role as Director of the 1977 proposed Carter White House Extraterrestrial Communication Project. On May 9, 2001, I could not appear as a Disclosure Project witness at the press conference at the National Press Club because of visa issues. I did serve as international media and Congressional liaison from my office in Vancouver, and my name appears together with Dr. Greer on the May 9, 2001 press releases.

See:
Historical documents: Disclosure Project press releases for May 9, 2001 Press Conference
http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2013/05/historical-documents-disclosure-project-press-releases-for-may-9-2001-press-conference.html

Please feel free to share this update with others

In Light, Alfred

UFO/ET "Disclosure" & the Transhumanist Agenda by Alfred Lambremont Webre

THE TRANSHUMANIST AGENDA
by ALFRED LAMBREMONT WEBRE

1. The "Transhumanist Agenda" - EU Panel: Human robotization, Nano implant technologies, Mind control slavery, Neurological weapons torture, Gang stalking
by Alfred Lambremont Webre

Panel: Magnus Olsson, Dr. Henning Witte, and Melanie Vritschan from the European Coalition Against Covert Harassment with Alfred Lambremont Webre
WATCH PANEL ON YOU TUBE

http://youtu.be/uCEPsWF59mI

ARTICLE & LINKS:
http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2013/05/eu-experts-mind-control-slavery-nano-implant-technologies-human-robotization-neurological-weapons-torture-gang-stalking-t.html

2. UFO/ET Citizen Hearing witnesses Bassett, Huneeus and Greer’s anomalous eye movements may indicate brain-mind entrainment by manipulatory extraterrestrials or advanced military-intelligence nanotechnology as part of a global control agenda
by Alfred Lambremont Webre
http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2013/05/ufo-citizen-hearing-witnesses-bassett-huneeus-and-greers-anomalous-eye-movements-may-indicate-mind-brain-entrainment-by-p.html

3. Citizen Hearing intentionally misleads former Sen. Mike Gravel on nature of U.S. relations with extraterrestrials
by Alfred Lambremont Webre
http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2013/04/citizen-hearing-intentionally-misleads-former-sen-mike-gravel-on-nature-of-us-relations-with-extrate.html

4. Sirius documentary: Reported project financial improprieties and "Dead Man's Trigger" fabrication by Dr. Steven Greer undercut UFO/ET and New Energy mission
By Alfred Lambremont Webre
http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2013/06/sirius-documentary-reported-project-financial-improprieties-and-message-falsehoods-by-dr-steven-greer-undercut-ufoet-and.html

5. PROJECT AVALON: Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60223-Steven-Greer-s-core-team-has-apparently-left-him--long-report-by-Alfred-Webre-%2Fpage2

URL:

http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2013/06/ufoet-disclosure-the-transhumanist-agenda-by-alfred-lambremont-webre.html


*****************************************

[jaybee]

.


Greer doesn't have The Dead Man's Trigger anymore...

think about it.


And the film director's dad got murdered in the Sikh temple massacre near to the

release of Sirius


Co-incidence or not?


.

[Chris Gilbert]

Those who rise the farthest often fall the hardest. Much of the evidence sounds damning but I'm willing to be more forgiving towards Greer than I would those under less stressful circumstances, I suspect that his ego was manipulated and used agains't him by any who might have been trying to sabotage his efforts from within.

It doesn't excuse any errors he has made, but it is a factor I would take into consideration.

[sigma6]

how did Webre get that document?... (unnamed insiders?) it represents a gross breach of trust on someone's part. Can't wait to have a read, I wonder where this leaves Greer now... hanging in the wind? will be interesting to see what the next move is in this 'drama'...

It is kind of interesting, that a document that is supposed to be held in a trust, becomes violated, and depending on how Greer set it up, could have huge legal implications, which is then given to an ex lawyer, who then knowing it's origin and the source, delivers what should be a private document into the public... at possible lawful risk to himself I wonder? Never say never!

I could never stand watching soap operas, but I have to admit this has me glued... (lol)

[Timesman]

I have not been active on this forum alot, but i read often.
I just wanted to say that when i first heard about Steven Greer and started looking him up and do my own little research i felt, that i couldnt trust him (gut feeling)
He's just way to full of himself and very self centered, It doesn't feel like he's doing it for us but rather for himself.
I have too many questions when it come's to Greer's credibility.
It really felt from the beginning that he was trying to send me into the woods with his information, it was going nowere, and it was contridicting alot of other info i choose to believe in.
Ive listened to many whistleblowers over the years, starting with project camelot 5 or 6 years ago when i found Kerry and Bill to be the only honest and credible source of information.
I have not dropped conspiracy's ever since, it's a part of my life, determined to find the truth,
I would put most whistleblowers in the same cabin, but Greer is diffirent feels like.
One time he would say all ET's are good, next monent he would say that not all of them are good and that it was irresponsible to say so.
Confusing ???


As the founder of Centre for the Study of Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence.
Founder of the Disclosure project
Greer has gathered 120 hours of testimony from various government officials on the topic of UFOs,
Et cetera..
You would either be 100% certain they are good or 100% certain their not all good. or some of them are and some of them arn't
Does he even know what he's saying ?
He would make more of these blunt statements, what an expert he is....


At the end of the day we all have to decide for ourselfs which source of information we trust in our path of awakening and revolution
I would say, dont let Greer fool you... Hes.. very very diffirent than all others out there telling honest truth.




Excuse me for my grammar.

Tim

[jaybee]

how did Webre get that document?... (unnamed insiders?) it represents a gross breach of trust on someone's part. Can't wait to have a read, I wonder where this leaves Greer now... hanging in the wind? will be interesting to see what the next move is in this 'drama'...

It is kind of interesting, that a document that is supposed to be held in a trust, becomes violated, and depending on how Greer set it up, could have huge legal implications, which is then given to an ex lawyer, who then knowing it's origin and the source, delivers what should be a private document into the public... at possible lawful risk to himself I wonder? Never say never!

nice analysis....lol

perhaps Greer will have to 'do' Webre in the courts. To protect himself.

I don't even know if that's possible with it being the internet.

But anyway, Greer's not daft and would know what a distraction that would be and how expensive.

.

[GoodETxSG]

Wow, I guess there was a lot more to the Politics of competing idea's and personalities than I had realized. I guess humans being as petty as we are I shouldn't be surprised, yet I am.

We WAR within the Micro and the Macro with every opportunity given from Online Forums, Stages at Conferences, High School, City, County State on up to Federal and World Politics. We War over the issues be they the Micro or the Macro on every level as well.

I wonder just how foolish and childish we look to "Other Civilizations" that keep an eye on us?

It seems to me a lot of the time those that "Preach" on expanded consciousness tend to have a box that they have sat in and expanded theirs into... then stopped. IMHO. tis off putting...

[Roisin]

Posted by donk (here)
I've always had an issue with Greer's insistence of only peaceful and benign watchers and protectors...

Mr. Greer’s preposterous sentiment that all of our ‘visitor’s’ are benevolent watcher’s and protector’s is not only a violent assault to the very sanctity of human free will and our inborn facility to discern between good and evil, but it is also a monumental insult to our intelligence too!

But in any case, as we well know, “Hell hath no fury like a sycophant scorned“! That we are now witnessing the mutiny of his core team of operatives within his organization is an event that was inevitable. Mr. Greer has become a canker on the entire body of the UFO community and like all canker’s, they need to be cut out. It is good to see that his most staunchest enabler’s have finally seen the light and are now deserting a ship that has long since sunk into insurmountable irrelevance.

----
Hmmmm, maybe a little too harsh in my statements above about Greer but one thing for sure, what looks to us like the end of a show that ran on for too long now may, in fact, be only the beginning of a new one. I don't think we've seen the last of Greer by a long shot.

[Brodie75]

I think they're both a bit iffy myself, but if i had to choose which one
to believe or trust it wouldn't be Mr Webre.
Mr Greer maybe be compromised in my opinion either willingly or by some form of mind control tech
but i believe he started out with his heart in the right place.
Mr Webre may also believe all that he says but not much of the imformation he puts out is credible in my opinion.
This seems to be part of a long term plan to compromise Mr Greer and then expose him.
And the people behind the operation have simply used Mr Webre by giving him the leak.
So in a way they have both been played.
That's my theory.

[Redstar Kachina]

..........

[Gardener]

Thankyou for that Toddhathaway :) in all respects. The future of 'advanced energy technology' lies in the ability of humanity to understand it is not about money and power but about the ability of humanity to understand that the collective 'we' do not require 'money' just a willingness to give of our best with heart.

Though I am unable at this time to know how this can come about as a social change, I have every confidence that it will.

I'll gladly swap some carrots and tomatoes for a hair cut :)

[Dennis Leahy]

Thanks for posting, Todd. Your insight from deep inside the loop is priceless.

Can you say who the free energy researcher was who was killed?

If any of your FE compatriots declare that they want a patent, or to make $0.10 from their FE research or from sales of a device, run as fast as you can.

Dennis

[jaybee]

Rather than get caught up in the drama, as had happened when I attempted to bring people up to speed on the Drake front a while back, this will be my last post to this thread.

it's a shame you aren't going to post any more on the thread because I was going

to ask you how you knew that you were named in The Dead Man's Trigger

document.....as Bill said you told him you were before this public release.

And I wanted to ask if it was you...or who? that gave it to Exopolitics...and how it

was accessed?



.

[donk]

I was actually in the process of searching for the other recent Greer thread the other evening when this one went up, and was taken aback and my train of thought derailed…once again by controversy over this character.

My reason at the time for resurrecting that was to ask how effective his supporters thought the Sirius movie was at advancing whatever agenda they thought was so great of him to do such a wonderful thing. So I’ll ask: how’s that “disclosure” going? How many eyes have been opened.

And this is not a “toldja so”, this is an honest question. There are still people here (well, before Todd’s contribution, anyway) give him the benefit of the doubt and believe the movie is important and supposed to good things—has anyone found that to be the case? Is there any numbers/data on viewership or funds made or whatever measure of success of the purpose of this thing?

The other thing I wanted to point out is everything here COULD be true. There could be a good soul and heart in there, it could have been taken over or manipulated, he could have had a change of heart, all of this could be from the fact he’s a reptilian, he could be having an internal good/evil battle (lizzy-style), someone could have set him up, at the same time he is setting himself up, or crushing the movement, maybe in his heart benevolently….you see where I am going with this?

It’s not an either/or scenario, and it really doesn’t matter ultimately. Getting information out is there for discerning folks to chew on is a good thing. It’s not going to sway the emotionally attached too much. No one is going to know the entirety of what is really going on here, so maybe people’s “gut feelings” are no longer productive to the conversation.

Forgive me for being presumptuous, but I guess I’m trying to steer it toward: what is the reaction and solution part to this “problem”? Greer’s movement is in disarray—but was there anything substantive to begin with, except for the nostalgic folks that remember Greer waking them up? Has he and the movement been waking up people recently? Is this really a big loss or huge impact on “disclosure”?

Because in my mind…anyone pushing for “disclosure” is hiding the fact that it is way past, it is there, as close to “bonafide” as it’s gonna get. If you need more disclosure, than what is available to you right now, you’re going to miss the point anyway, you’re playing into the same old paradigm, where nothing is real—unless authority says so.

[Wind]

All I have to say about the subject is that I have always found Alfred Weber to be trustworthy and I like him. I have become more suspicious about Greer's motives, but I don't care too much about the drama.

[Ernie Nemeth]

I'm not so sure it is fair to speculate what drug he was purchasing and using. I like to think it was marijuana to help him relax. But just how much money was he spending on drugs. Dope is relatively cheap, can't go broke doing that. Coke is completely another matter.

Also, unlike some others who have never had standing, Greer can still redeem himself. It is not like he is Charles or others of that ilk who were uncovered as scam runners, Greer is sincere - whatever his motives. I just find his sincerity a bit off-center and his conclusions somewhat shakey.

[BrianEn]

I got an e-mail invite to attend the Las Vegas premeire of Sirius. I was tempted to send a one word reply back.


One word reply:

Siriusly?


Decided not to do.

[TheGoat]

From what I've seen Greer is one of the only ones out there actually DOING something and contributing positively. As a former ER doctor it seems entirely unlikely that he'd have a drug problem, also as a father too. Makes no sense. He's achieving stuff unlike 90% of the alternative media who simply talk about things... and not much else.

This sounds like discrediting in a big way.

[Ultima Thule]

From what I've seen Greer is one of the only ones out there actually DOING something and contributing positively. As a former ER doctor it seems entirely unlikely that he'd have a drug problem, also as a father too. Makes no sense. He's achieving stuff unlike 90% of the alternative media who simply talk about things... and not much else.

This sounds like discrediting in a big way.

You may be right, but imo I wouldn´t see being an ER doctor as being unlikely in regards to having a drug problem - I´d say him being MD is neutral, if not actually raising the possibility of having a drug problem - given that many doctors have a habit and access to drugs. It doesn´t have to be illegal drug, it can be medicinal drugs as well that he might have a problem with.

UT

[jaybee]

.

I think that 'someone' wanted to make the Dead Man's Trigger public but to do this

had to bring it out with a good dose of discrediting against Greer at the same time.

I wouldn't mind betting that no evidence for the accusations ever comes out.

But mud sticks.


PSYOPS has slowly but surely turned the UFO/ET arena into a popularity contest.

'They' whoever 'they' be, must be laughing their socks off how easy it is to set

people against each other. Divide and rule. The oldest trick in the book.



I don't post much on Avalon but I generally pop in every day or so to see what's being discussed. I find myself caring about this thread...and that's why I have been
moved to post.

Seeing Greer being thrown to the Wolves upsets me.....:ohwell:


I see Stephen Bassett is also under attack on the Webre link. To do with 'eye movement'........FFS.


.

[bogeyman]

Dr Greer could of been a plant or used unknowingly by those that wish to suppress or ridicule the subject, and these accusations are interesting to say the least. The old saying that you are judged by the company you keep, so the ramifications are wider that the activities of Dr Greer.

[jaybee]

Dr Greer could of been a plant or used unknowingly by those that wish to suppress or ridicule the subject,

It is clear that a serious attempt to suppress and ridicule Greer is in progress.

And on top of that...his life could be more in danger with the theft and disclosing of the Dead Man's Trigger document.

I'm sure the implications of it's release aren't lost on Greer.

.

[MistahMojoRisin]

Dearest Off-World, Benevolent Galatic Beings,

Please hear my prayer. Please don’t come down here, please don’t save us, and please don’t allow for disclosure until we as humans can behave in a more heart-centered manner with less ego and self-centeredness. :moony:

Please forgive us for looking to others rather than within for the answers as we are struggling to learn the importance of ignoring those who claim to hold the key rather than ourselves. Occassionally we will stumble, due to our over-zealous attempts to discover new truths, as our spirits need nurturing during this time of unprecedented growth. Your patience with us is appreciated and we promise continued improvement in our quest to be of love and as one.

In all Sirius-ness and with love,
we-R-one

This may be the most on target statment I have ever read. WOW

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Gee, what does this mean for the disclosure hearings, this is not helping at all, Sirius I did not take serious, I hear for the first time he is some renegade lizard too, and a dope head, and has ego the size of an aircraft carrier, all I am stuck with now is the idea of a con artist, high as giraffe p@ssy, with scales, great, another image I have to get out my head, always thought of the man as too slick to handle.

I HOPE the people who worked with him on the hearings will not be disregarded and are still taken seriously, no need to be proclaimed guilty by association, but I fear with great fear, poor Dolan.:(

[Bill Ryan]

Dr Greer could of been a plant or used unknowingly by those that wish to suppress or ridicule the subject,

It is clear that a serious attempt to suppress and ridicule Greer is in progress.

And on top of that...his life could be more in danger with the theft and disclosing of the Dead Man's Trigger document.

I'm sure the implications of it's release aren't lost on Greer.

.

Dear jaybee --

Thanks for all your posts. It is clear that you are sincere and do not want to believe any of the claims about Greer's activities (only a small proportion of which have been made public). I can totally understand that -- really.

But I ask you to meditate on this statement, from this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60223-Steven-Greer-s-core-team-has-apparently-left-him--long-report-by-Alfred-Webre-&p=690586&viewfull=1#post690586) by Todd Hathaway himself: (And believe me, he knows of what he speaks.)



Most of you would cringe if you knew everything Bill Ryan and others know about Greer.As I said earlier on this thread, supposing the claims are correct? Are you really sure that they are not? Are you just hoping that it's nonsense?

What follows is important. This is a potentially huge issue that could affect the entire alternative media. Those who know what is and has been happening are faced with a very serious dilemma:


Do they keep quiet, and avoid risking the derailment of the entire 'alternative' disclosure movement? (It may not look good if one of their heroes ends up in jail, utterly disgraced.)
Do they speak out and (besides at the risk of their own lives, seriously) possibly set back official Disclosure by years?
Or do they speak out and restore honor and courage and truth to the lexicon of values that should be regarded as important for all humans? (After all, the ETs are watching... :) )

Think about it. Really, please do: this post is a serious one, addressed to everyone reading it.

The intel agencies also are aware of the situation, but are playing their own game.

Their strategy is unknown, certainly by me. Greer is an 'asset' - as is, knowingly or unknowingly, everyone in the alternative media. At least to some degree, these people -- including other 'heroes' like Alex Jones and David Icke -- are played, at least to some degree, as pieces on a very large chess board.

These assets are used opportunistically. They may not be aware of it at all, but it makes no difference to the larger game plan.

We have to understand that when (e.g.) Camelot released an interview with (e.g.) Clifford Stone, that might be regarded in the Pentagon as helpful to their own strategy.

On the other hand, when (e.g.) Camelot went maybe a little too far, and (e.g.) hauled 'Henry Deacon' (Arthur Neumann) on stage in Barcelona in July 2009 to confirm in front of the TV cameras that he had been to Mars, that sudden extreme statement might be regarded as unhelpful. (We, of course, had no way of knowing. We just did what we did.)

In the same way, Greer is an asset. He may or may not know about it. (My personal guess: he knows he is an asset to a certain degree, and certainly has some 'friends in high places'. But he is not aware of the real extent that he is factored into Disclosure plans as a chess piece that could be sacrificed if necessary if it consolidates the positions of the other pieces. He may also find out that his 'friends' are not friends, really.)

Now, here's the rub: all assets are disposable. Those moving the chessboard pieces do not care at all about the human beings involved. They are just assets: nothing more. Even Queens are sacrificed sometimes.

And when an asset becomes of no further practical use (or worse still, an unpredictable liability), they are abandoned, trashed, or sometimes 'eliminated'.

Greer's fate will not be in the hands, directly, of anyone posting on or reading this thread as a member of the public. It may already have been sealed, or it may still be in the balance.

It depends entirely on the Disclosure strategy, and whether Greer ending up in jail suits the master plan (or, at least, does not derail it) -- or hinders it.

To jaybee and others: Please, again, bend your brain around what I've just written in this post. You may have little idea how deep this all goes, and can go.

Your opinions are of little consequence in the biggest picture -- except that (right now, at this temporary stage in the game) I would bet a large Starbucks coffee that the agencies are watching this thread very carefully.

Why? It actually serves as an impromptu focus group of reaction and opinion. That does not exist right now anywhere else. That focus group is right here. The watchers will be assessing:


Do people believe the allegations?
Do they care?
Is anyone being intelligent, smart and analytical about this, or is it just he-said-she-said forum gossip of no consequence?
How are these allegations changing or influencing attitudes towards (a) Disclosure in particular, and (b) The alternative media in general?

You have to see this as a military game, played by military minds.

Does this make sense?

Conclusion: I have a serious suggestion to make:

If you want the agencies who are tasked to handle and (if necessary, act on) this unpleasant business to know something that you believe, think, or feel, post it here. It'll be noted. There is a possibility that it may make a small difference. Especially if your posts are intelligent and well-informed.

I will start here. As best I know, Greer has been lying in his presentations, and seriously misrepresenting the real truth of the ET problem. This may seem convenient to many in high places, but in the end the truth will out. That may be a painful process for everyone.

The honorable and ethical thing to do -- ultimately, the only thing that will be recorded in future history books -- is to tell the truth, every bit of it. The future history books will record those that stood for this truth as the real heroes.

Who seems to be a hero now is ephemeral. The real context is over a much larger stretch of time, possibly extending hundreds or even thousands of years.

Our temporary views matter as much as those of the people who thought Galileo was a maverick, sacrilegious fool.

[christian]

Yes, this is what we saw coming. We hoped Greer would fade away rather than succumb to a big scandal that would discredit so much legitimate work and effort. I'm not surprised because this is the logical conclusion of what we saw back in the day. Just wish it hadn't happened.

Steven Greer is a shady character, you gotta expect that he would be involved in immoral activities that would eventually come to the surface, that's just natural.


the Disclosure community still owes him a debt of gratitude, imho.

I woke up after seeing Zeitgeist, thanks for that. Later I found out that the Zeitgeist Movement is really bad news, glad I found out.


From what I've seen Greer is one of the only ones out there actually DOING something and contributing positively.

He's pushing disclosure, nice, but with the idea that all E.T.'s are our beneficial friends. This is irresponsible. He can't be that stupid, I think. Therefore there must be something sinister going on with him. It's as plain as day. I find it astonishing that this flaw in his activity has not been more openly called out in the alternative media so far. It's such a huge red flag, and it's right there out in the open.


As a former ER doctor it seems entirely unlikely that he'd have a drug problem, also as a father too. Makes no sense.

Daily Mail: One in six doctors has been hooked on alcohol or drugs (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1277955/Special-Investigation-Why-ARE-doctors-addicted-drink-drugs.html)

Let's be real, there are millions of doctors and fathers that do the most irresponsible stuff.


He's achieving stuff unlike 90% of the alternative media who simply talk about things... and not much else.

Media is defined as "a medium of cultivation, conveyance, or expression." Media is essentially about communicating things, that's media people's job. Achieving stuff is essentially up to the informed and discerning audience.

[Another1]

I don't understand how someone attributed with organizing 200 whistle blowers could possibly expect to get away with anything shady in their own life?

No matter the eventual outcome, I appreciate his part in bringing all them people together but fraud is fraud and if it's happened here and 'we' know about it, our public should too or it will hurt 10X more when they find out on their own later. It's called Disclosure right?

my 2 cents

[STR]

It is pretty easy to see why someone would want to attack Greer as easy as it is to believe he is mind controlled. It is easy enough to believe today in this high tech world that a third party could in fact be manipulating things behind the scenes playing both sides against each other also. Divide and conquer and what better way to crush a story than to discredit the people and the team behind it? Brilliant if it is the case. If on the other hand Greer was actually guilty of theft or fraud and not buying land for the organization but for his own personal needs well, nuff said. He has no one else to blame but himself if it all crumbled after that was discovered. If he is guilty of fabricating a bull **** story for where the money went from his own organization, what is to stop us from thinking he would not do much the same for a documentary with a deformed monkey skeleton? claiming it was a hybrid?

[Sidney]

I don't understand how someone attributed with organizing 200 whistle blowers could possibly expect to get away with anything shady in their own life?

No matter the eventual outcome, I appreciate his part in bringing all them people together but fraud is fraud and if it's happened here and 'we' know about it, our public should too or it will hurt 10X more when they find out on their own later. It's called Disclosure right?

my 2 cents

Narcissists do not expect anything , or think ahead. They are service to self. Their focus lies on, "whats good for me". They think they are invincible. They think they are above the law, and that they are far too smart to get caught.

I would really like to know what Dr. Greers personality was like, before he became a household name, IOW, did he start out, being a good guy, with his heart in the right place??? Was he set up, then "groomed", to assemble the disclosure project, with an invisible ulterior motive behind it? Was it steroids that bloated his ego, and self image, or did the publicity do that, or both, or was in his blood from birth. Of course narcissism being reptillian trait, we could wonder, has his body been hijacked? Has he been under full blown mind control, and for how long? How much money was ultimately siphoned off the project, and who has been keeping tract of that, and are they being protected.
The disclosure project, was IMO a phenomenal accumulation of people, that came forward, risking their lives and reputations. Is Greers demise, going to UNDO, everything that was accomplished with that project? Remember, in the black government, they create scenarios years, decades, even centuries, in advance. Is this all just another ruse, to confuse? There are so many questions, it is mind boggling, especially the fact that Greers "little creature" gained so much attention in the media, especially mainstream. Now is the little person, going to be discredited as well? Was this little specimen, the motivating factor in all of this?

And, finally, while we are assembling the many pieces to this puzzle, what are the game players working on behind the scenes, during our distractions.?

[Freed Fox]

Of course narcissism being reptillian trait[...]

Narcissism is blaming E.T.s for all of our problems and deficiencies. E.T.s that 99% of the people here have never even seen. Sure... but we're so "awake"!

[norman]

Bloody el, Bill, that was quite a surprise from you.

Just as I was getting fed up with the general weakness of thinking here on this forum, you go and write a stonker like that.

thanks.

[Sidney]

Of course narcissism being reptillian trait[...]

Narcissism is blaming E.T.s for all of our problems and deficiencies. E.T.s that 99% of the people here have never even seen. Sure... but we're so "awake"!

Hi freedfox. I think I may be missing your point. Are you saying 99% of people here have not seen an et? Because, I think that statistic for THIS forum is not correct. IMO, blaming ETs for all of our problems, is plain irresponsible, and has nothing to do with being a narcissist. My point about the narcissism, was the fact that Dr. Greer is extremely narcissistic. I base this on my experience at one of his "outings" that I attended. And my thoughts were also connecting the dot, where steroid use is concerned, as steroid use, has been linked with narcissistic personality disorder. But that there has also been speculation, that reptillian entities have influence over Greer, and many others.
Quoting from this article
http://apt.rcpsych.org/content/13/3/203.full
Personality disorders
Self-report questionnaires and informant histories have been used to retrospectively assess the personality type of anabolic steroid misusers before their first use. Such work suggests that they start out with personalities similar to those of non-using bodybuilders, but develop abnormal personality traits that could be attributed to steroid misuse (Eisenberg & Galloway, 2005). Cooper et al(1996) identified a high rate of abnormal personality traits in a sample of 12 bodybuilders who had used anabolic steroids compared with a matched group who had not. The reported personality traits of the steroid users before the onset of use did not differ from those of the non-users, but in the user group there were significant differences between the before and after traits. During steroid use, individuals were more likely to score higher on paranoia, schizoid, antisocial, borderline, histrionic, narcissistic and passive aggressive personality profiles. Other studies have suggested that antisocial personality disorder is slightly more likely among anabolic steroid users than among non-users (Pope & Katz, 1994). Steroid users have been shown to have a higher prevalence of cluster B (histrionic, narcissistic, antisocial and borderline) personality traits than community controls (Yates et al, 1990).

[Freed Fox]

Sorry Sidney, perhaps it was the way you phrased it.

It seems to me that most here aim to be open-minded and aware, and yet I see certain blind spots in these alleged virtues that are too often overlooked or, in some cases, embraced. Far too much abdication of responsibility, and denial of human imperfection by blaming outside forces for the ills and shortcomings of humanity. Projection of our insecurities onto things which we inherently cannot fully understand but pretend we do. Making sweeping statements and conclusions on very limited and largely anecdotal evidence and ignoring the same kind of evidence which happens to disagree with the particular paradigm we've chosen to adopt.

And, of course, the tried-and-true practice of demonization. We talk about achieving peace and greater harmony, and yet never fail to cast any number of hated villains for our little divine comedy.

[Sidney]

Sorry Sidney, perhaps it was the way you phrased it.

It seems to me that most here aim to be open-minded and aware, and yet I see certain blind spots in these alleged virtues that are too often overlooked or, in some cases, embraced. Far too much abdication of responsibility, and denial of human imperfection by blaming outside forces for the ills and shortcomings of humanity. Projection of our insecurities onto things which we inherently cannot fully understand but pretend we do. Making sweeping statements and conclusions on very limited and largely anecdotal evidence and ignoring the same kind of evidence which happens to disagree with the particular paradigm we've chosen to adopt.

And, of course, the tried-and-true practice of demonization. We talk about achieving peace and greater harmony, and yet never fail to cast any number of hated villains for our little divine comedy.


I don't know, I was just answering Another1's inquiry regarding, why Greer thought he would get away with the fraudulent acts that he committed. And I answered that, based on my personal observation of Greer, in action.

[Debra]

I was just forming a post in my mind with this same line of thinking Sidney.



.. Is this all just another ruse, to confuse? There are so many questions, it is mind boggling, especially the fact that Greers "little creature" gained so much attention in the media, especially mainstream. Now is the little person, going to be discredited as well? Was this little specimen, the motivating factor in all of this?

And, finally, while we are assembling the many pieces to this puzzle, what are the game players working on behind the scenes, during our distractions.?

Has the whole disclosure project been a long running false flag?
If it has, they chose the right person for the job ..

[Sidney]

I was just forming a post in my mind with this same line of thinking Sidney.



.. Is this all just another ruse, to confuse? There are so many questions, it is mind boggling, especially the fact that Greers "little creature" gained so much attention in the media, especially mainstream. Now is the little person, going to be discredited as well? Was this little specimen, the motivating factor in all of this?

And, finally, while we are assembling the many pieces to this puzzle, what are the game players working on behind the scenes, during our distractions.?

Has the whole disclosure project been a long running false flag?
If it has, they chose the right person for the job ..
Interesting theory. Had not really thought of that one.

[bogeyman]

Maybe there were too many independent minds at work, this may of instigated the discrediting of Dr Greer. Also you have to take into account that something may of come out through the disclosure project which was a step too far for some, hence all this activity which has recently occurred.

[ulli]

Years ago I came across a leaked document in which there was talk of a plan to acclimatize humanity gradually, similar to the sci-fi novel Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke.
This came supposedly from a white hat Cabal insider. The document was called Omega File. I never saw it again, no matter how much I searched. There were five installments, in which different stages of the plan were elaborated. I believe it was around 1997 or 1998.
It outlined how ETs had instructed our shadow government leaders to bring about a world super state, so that humanity could then be properly represented by elected councils when meeting with members and visitors from the space community.
I recall reading then that the rogue element of " bad" ET was very small...like less than 5%.
It was apparently customary to initiate contact with any civilization that had figured out both space travel as well as nuclear weapons.

[CdnSirian]

Ulli is it this? http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_sociopol_omega.htm

[Fractalius]

In these scenarios, I like to keep my real analysis to myself most of the time so as not to let those reading gain information for the discussion group. I am certain others are like that too. So really the focus group is misleading to those thinking they are gaining an insight to reaction.

By this, I include the times in which we make posts that outline ones stance. But we all know how it is impossible to outline all the intricacies of a stance. All the contradictions and exceptions.

To look at our responses here and think that is the entirety of our consciousness is naive, though I doubt they believe that anyhow.

But the rub is. We know we are doing it too.

[WEAREONE]

I posted a link that showed two colliding galaxies via hubble. It seemed appropriate at first, but then seemed off topic.


For me the sticking point on Greer is his insistence on all E.T. phenomenon is benign....For me that is a deal breaker in regards to his honesty, integrity, believability etc.. It seems to me that Greer is not acting alone. Perhaps we can focus more on who we think Greer might be in cohorts with. He in my opinion is a puppet, the Ego discussion is a wate of time, puppets are manipulated. Whatever Ego discussion we percieve is IMO off topic

The true benefit in our discussion on Greer is who is manipulating the puppet??

[Fractalius]

One further post to continue.

I have only ever superficially taken notice of the disclosure project, Greer, or pretty much any of the UFO and alien fields.

I am quite happy letting all the fuzzy logic and predictable contradictions and fantasies roll out and settle.

I just sit back and watch, not remotely caring what the outcome of the words on papers and screens are.

I wait and watch for actual real things to happen and prepare for any outcome.

To think any intelligence gathering project would try to extract info from here is quite absurd really, because then it would be us leading them astray, they can't seriously think we aren't playing them too.

[ulli]

Ulli is it this? http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_sociopol_omega.htm

No, quite different. It was written in five chapters by a woman who's lover was a top level cabal and who had confessed the plan to her. There was no way of verifying it other than my intuition bells went off. It made perfect sense.

[Team Zen]

My question is, has Greer' personality always been as it is said to be now? What was he like when he was "just a doctor," before he began his research into ETs and embarking on the Disclosure Project? I do not have nearly enough information to make any informed opinion on what's happening here, but from all the bits and bobs I've been ingesting from Dr. Greer himself, his trajectory, and what others have pontificated, I wonder the following: Did he always claim all ETs are benevolent? Did he always have the traits of a sociopath? Because from what people are saying, these qualities he is displaying fit that definition...and isn't that also reflective of reptilian qualities?

Perhaps he was genuinely onto the truth of the matter, then his knowledge and sharing of it became too dangerous, so "they" gave him and his friends/colleagues cancer (weren't there 2 others in addition to him, one a very close friend?). Perhaps after surviving the cancer "they" had to try another tactic, which was to invade his brain or switch out his soul or something. So, at some point Dr. Greer was no longer Dr. Greer- I propose this possibility after reading the material from the Horus-Ra thread. And so now he's being used to promote the dark side's agenda?

Also, did he get to be so buff after the bout with cancer? Perhaps he got on a crazy health kick and then got "addicted" to body building? Like others on this thread have asked, what kind of drugs has he been purported to be using? Of course a natural assumption would be steroids, look at the guy- and, following from that, we know that steroids can tweak someone's personality significantly and generate many of the negative traits he supposedly has...

Furthermore, in response to those "poo-pooing" the different responses/projections regarding this thread, I thinks it's natural for those of us who are into this sort of stuff to try and put the pieces together and air out our thoughts and opinions here- isn't that what this forum is for, at least in part? Where else could I talk about this- this stuff interests me, it is important to me, and this is the best place to present my questions, ideas and opinions- after all these years of keeping it all to myself, because there is no one in my surroundings who would take any of this seriously, I am so happy to have found this forum and other individuals who involve themselves with these sorts of pertinent issues. I find it to be a wonderful exercise in keeping the heart, mind and soul open and evolving.

Much gratitude and appreciation to all fellow Avalonians! Now who can fill me in? :playball:

[jaybee]

Dr Greer could of been a plant or used unknowingly by those that wish to suppress or ridicule the subject,

It is clear that a serious attempt to suppress and ridicule Greer is in progress.

And on top of that...his life could be more in danger with the theft and disclosing of the Dead Man's Trigger document.

I'm sure the implications of it's release aren't lost on Greer.

.

Dear jaybee --

Thanks for all your posts. It is clear that you are sincere and do not want to believe any of the claims about Greer's activities (only a small proportion of which have been made public). I can totally understand that -- really.


Thanks for understanding that I am sincere, I really appreciate that.




But I ask you to meditate on this statement, from this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60223-Steven-Greer-s-core-team-has-apparently-left-him--long-report-by-Alfred-Webre-&p=690586&viewfull=1#post690586) by Todd Hathaway himself: (And believe me, he knows of what he speaks.)



Most of you would cringe if you knew everything Bill Ryan and others know about Greer.As I said earlier on this thread, supposing the claims are correct? Are you really sure that they are not? Are you just hoping that it's nonsense?



Todd Hathaway has only just come to my attention with what Greer has said in his Dead Man's Trigger document....and his part in the latest accusations against Greer.

(although having had another read of it...it seems that it was originally an audiotape with supporting documents....page 31

http://exopolitics.blogs.com/files/steve.greer.dead.mans.trigger.pdf)


You obviously trust Hathaway....but someone looking on from the outside of the whole thing might wonder if he is someone who has ingratiated himself into the
Alternative/Advanced energy community....to keep tabs on what everyone is up to
and control the potential disclosure of any working energy device, not approved
for release by the military and defence. And now to to give Greer a good old public kicking. (or worse)

A question I'm asking myself is why would Greer put lies in a Dead Man's Trigger release? What would be the point of that? Greer most certainly does not trust Hathaway....

A search using the words Todd Hathaway, intelligence, pentagon quickly turned up this...


http://www.scribd.com/doc/9863654/Aff-Military (see page 29)

I just skimmed through it and it is a good job it wasn't written in the tiny tiny writing or I would never have spotted it...

Then a search of 'Green Hawks'...pulled this up with the same quote..

http://thewip.net/contributors/2008/03/green_hawks_in_the_pentagon_th.html



The Department of Defense is therefore investing an estimated $500-$600 million dollars on research and development of solar, wave, biomass and wind energy, as well as conventional green energy sources. A new law demanding better energy efficiency has been passed, so by 2025 the Army will have to take a quarter of its energy from renewable sources. But that is far too little, far too late, say hawks like Todd Hathaway, a major in the Army who is writing his PhD thesis on nuclear science, focusing on new environmentally friendly technology.

“We can’t afford to not fix this now, and that can only be done with cutting-edge technology,” says the fast-paced 36-year-old outside the Pentagon, whose front boasts a vast field of solar cells.

“Unfortunately there is a strong resistance against new technology from the multi-billion industry for established green energy. We – inventors, scientists, retired Army people and professors – have to invest our own money to get the projects going. This is serious, as these are the kind of technologies that will make this planet survive.”


I went to Todd Hathaway's post on this thread and one of the links he gives on it is.

http://www.commutefaster.com/EnergyArchive2009.html


And there you are, Bill....on the left hand side...included is the audio you had with
Hathaway...back in 2009.



http://www.commutefaster.com/audio/ProjectCamelot-compr.mp3


I listened to it to get a feel for what's going on with all this....

and on the subject of ETs..
A bit past 1/2 of the way through (nearly 3/4) he says he prefers to interact with archangels or angels...but they are working together with ETs and are here to help.
(something like that anyway..without giving an actual quote.)

Greer gets a real hard time for believing and declaring that 'ET's' are all benevolent..

But the concept of archangels/angels working with ETs, here to help humanity sound pretty benevolent to me....lol


This post is a bit tricky for me, Bill...because it's your forum and I don't want to really annoy you...or go against you. But I want to be honest as well.


I have to ask myself the question...Is Todd Hathaway leading everyone a merry dance....while actually working for Military Intelligence.

Sorry Major Todd Hathaway...but you have put yourself in the limelight.



mmmmmm to post or not to post......

sod it, lol.....submit reply.


.

[jaybee]

.

I'm feeling paranoid, right now...gulp. This subject is not healthy. An absolute minefield...

[araucaria]

Our friend Todd Hathaway’s previous handles on this forum were kk4aei and psci: see also http://panacea-bocaf.org/toddhathaway.htm

The following may be of help in understanding Bill and others’ dilemma in dealing with the case of Steven Greer. The idea of a leader being a traitor to his own cause is nothing new to reader’s of Borges’s Labyrinths, and notably the story ‘Theme of the Traitor and Hero’ – p.76 http://ebookbrowse.com/gdoc.php?id=374466039&url=1b06925c605dfbad8f1f7b6d42a7110e

The story tells of the investigation by one… Ryan into the mysterious circumstances of the death of the rebel leader Kilpatrick on the cusp of victory for his cause. It turns out all previous attempts at revolt had been thwarted at the last moment by the actions of a traitor, who is discovered to be the leader himself. To the extent that there is honour in treachery, Kilpatrick accepts his fate of death provided it is used as an instrument to serve the cause rather than defeat it.


It was then that Nolan conceived his strange scheme. Ireland idolized Kilpatrick; the most tenuous suspicion of his infamy would have jeopardized the revolt; Nolan proposed a plan which made of the traitor's execution an instrument for the country's emancipation. He suggested that the condemned man die at the hands of an unknown assassin in deliberately dramatic circumstances which would remain engraved in the imagination of the people and would hasten the revolt. Kilpatrick swore he would take part in the scheme, which gave him the occasion to redeem himself and for which his death would provide the final flourish.

The solution then is a Festspiele or theatrical performance on the largest scale, with many people acting small or not so small parts – what we would now call a false-flag Boston bombing-type operation.

Borges’s story is no more than a brilliant piece of fiction. However, there may be a germ of an idea in there for a practical face-saving operation leading to the jeopardized positive outcome.

[eaglespirit]

The "limelight" is about to penetrate all human factions and interactions of life on earth and elsewhere, as we are about to experience something of a revelation...EVERYONE will be exposed for what they are and are not, we are truly being cleansed by the purest waters that have ever flowed our way, imho.
All of the verbal diatribe of wasted energy is dissolving... the new earth will not tolerate it and EVERYONE must simply change and turn from their dishonest and deceitful doings at EVERY level or they will BE the limelight by default...all bets are off in any of their worlds of deception!

[jaybee]

Our friend Todd Hathaway’s previous handles on this forum were kk4aei and psci: see also http://panacea-bocaf.org/toddhathaway.htm


I saw that link earlier today and wanted to watch the video at the end....but it's not there any more....:ohwell:


Lecture given by Todd Hathaway October 4, 2006 on Eddie Sines Liquid Nitrogen cooled YBCO coated quartz crystal super conductor alternative free energy generator.

[araucaria]

Our friend Todd Hathaway’s previous handles on this forum were kk4aei and psci: see also http://panacea-bocaf.org/toddhathaway.htm


I saw that link earlier today and wanted to watch the video at the end....but it's not there any more....:ohwell:


Lecture given by Todd Hathaway October 4, 2006 on Eddie Sines Liquid Nitrogen cooled YBCO coated quartz crystal super conductor alternative free energy generator.

I don't know, but it might just be here on Avalon, if you search his previous screen names.

[bruno dante]

Bill, (or anyone, really)

A simple question (and maybe a naïve one): Why would Greer be lying about E.T.'s? (they're all benevolent etc...) Who gains? And how?

[karelia]

Bill, (or anyone, really)

A simple question (and maybe a naïve one): Why would Greer be lying about E.T.'s? (they're all benevolent etc...) Who gains? And how?

Imagine this scenario: an ET race is planning to take over our planet completely. Up until then, they have a front do all the work for them, such as preparing the people on it in the most subtle of ways. If people are led to believe that all ETs are benevolent, they won't be alarmed if the ETs suddenly turn up. But imagine the shock when they find out that these ETs aren't benevolent at all.

To make such an outrageous claim as Greer does is like saying all human beings are murderers, or all human beings are greedy. Or one size fits all which is pretty much exactly what the governments in the world are trying to make us believe...

[norman]

If all I was doing was plotting data, I'd suggest we are definitely being taken over by an ET race.

We are not even frogs in a slowly warming pan of water.

Look at the history of technology over the last 1,000 years. In the last 70 years it's done some astonishing things and had astonishing effects.

So what's the deal ?

Suppose the deal is that the so called breakaway human race 2 have negotiated an escape from the new earth future ( probably a slave humanity ) in exchange for their cooperation in the program to update the systems to a slave controlling system.

I don't know !

I just look at the data and wonder what the hell is going on.

[jaybee]

Our friend Todd Hathaway’s previous handles on this forum were kk4aei and psci: see also http://panacea-bocaf.org/toddhathaway.htm


I saw that link earlier today and wanted to watch the video at the end....but it's not there any more....:ohwell:


Lecture given by Todd Hathaway October 4, 2006 on Eddie Sines Liquid Nitrogen cooled YBCO coated quartz crystal super conductor alternative free energy generator.

I don't know, but it might just be here on Avalon, if you search his previous screen names.

I had a look but retired members aren't on the list. But...if you do a general internet
search of, say 'KK4aei avalon' or 'psci avalon' you get linked to some of the posts.

But I didn't really expect to find that video here as it was removed from that link you gave.


It was a stroke of luck when I stumbled on this video....which is of Todd Hathaway listening to Pete Sumaruck going on and on and on about the 'stolen experimental car and trailer'....

It's pretty amusing in a way because Todd looks pissed off and bored with that Pete guy...but maybe he just had to put up with him...;)

http://vimeo.com/15615635


It was Pete Sumaruck who was also named in the 'Dead Man's Trigger' piece...as being in cahoots with TH... page 2 + 3

http://exopolitics.blogs.com/files/steve.greer.dead.mans.trigger.pdf

.

[bruno dante]

Bill, (or anyone, really)

A simple question (and maybe a naïve one): Why would Greer be lying about E.T.'s? (they're all benevolent etc...) Who gains? And how?

Imagine this scenario: an ET race is planning to take over our planet completely. Up until then, they have a front do all the work for them, such as preparing the people on it in the most subtle of ways. If people are led to believe that all ETs are benevolent, they won't be alarmed if the ETs suddenly turn up. But imagine the shock when they find out that these ETs aren't benevolent at all.

To make such an outrageous claim as Greer does is like saying all human beings are murderers, or all human beings are greedy. Or one size fits all which is pretty much exactly what the governments in the world are trying to make us believe...


I thought of that (and thanks for the response by the way), and I've heard others say something similar but - and I don't know about you - regardless of what the government tells me about ufo's, whether good or bad, I am going to be shocked as sh!t when that mother ship breaks through the clouds.:) Slightly less alarmed, maybe, if I'm led to believe they are benevolent, but still pretty damn alarmed and likely psychically traumatized.

And with the technology possessed, does ET really need the people to be prepared in order to take over the planet?

I dunno. I'm just thinking out loud. You may be right, but I suspect there's a little more there.

[karelia]

I thought of that (and thanks for the response by the way), and I've heard others say something similar but - and I don't know about you - regardless of what the government tells me about ufo's, whether good or bad, I am going to be shocked as sh!t when that mother ship breaks through the clouds.:) Slightly less alarmed, maybe, if I'm led to believe they are benevolent, but still pretty damn alarmed and likely psychically traumatized.

Well... I suppose each of us may react differently to an actual mass showing of ships. Personally, I've been expecting them for a long time. But, as Alex Collier and others stress, the first showing won't be a benevolent race, and whilst I take such a statement with a grain of salt, given what the governments here say and do, I won't be surprised if the baddies show up first. There is enough documentation out there that very strongly suggests that an ET race is wreaking havoc with us, both through black-ops projects and alone.


And with the technology possessed, does ET really need the people to be prepared in order to take over the planet?

See, to me, technology is the key. If an ET race abuses technology (by abuse I mean to use it purely for their own agenda of control, regardless of the damage they do to a human being either physically or to their psyche), they are not benevolent, no matter what excuses they (might) use. Benevolent beings will NEVER trick you into doing something you don't want to do, they will never hurt you, and they will never do anything without your consent. You said above that you would be very alarmed and likely traumatised if ETs showed up. But what the negative ones want is to be seen as saviours. At least that's my suspicion. So there is no real space for the "we don't give a damn if they're prepared or not" scenario. They are tricksters, and they are highly skilled at it. They also have egos the size of the sun or bigger. Being seen by the masses as gods is very attractive to them.


I dunno. I'm just thinking out loud. You may be right, but I suspect there's a little more there.

Thinking out loud is good. I see it as one of the strengths here in Avalon. And I'm sure you're right in that there is more there. Maybe others will come forward and add pieces of the puzzle.

[mojo]

Why would Greer be lying about E.T.'s? (they're all benevolent etc...) Who gains? And how?

From the first disclosure hearing until today Greer has been fearful of tptb's desire to weaponize space. He was concerned that we would get caught up in the duality of an 'us' vs 'them' scenario in order to create an outside enemy in order to protect us. Perhaps this may be the reason for his stance and it was to late to change his position during the interview and if so, it would default to the duality conclusion.

It would be great for Dr Greer to answer the accusations to determine the validity of the claims against him and I feel that he will eventually answer them. Hopefully he will discover the thread or someone will share it for him to respond. But Greer is not the end all for the disclosure movement and it already is and has happened and there is enough evidence to prove a case in court. Any blockage to open disclosure is not coming from him and maybe this is where energies should focus?

[sdv]

My question is, has Greer' personality always been as it is said to be now? What was he like when he was "just a doctor," before he began his research into ETs and embarking on the Disclosure Project? I do not have nearly enough information to make any informed opinion on what's happening here, but from all the bits and bobs I've been ingesting from Dr. Greer himself, his trajectory, and what others have pontificated, I wonder the following: Did he always claim all ETs are benevolent? Did he always have the traits of a sociopath? Because from what people are saying, these qualities he is displaying fit that definition...and isn't that also reflective of reptilian qualities?

Perhaps he was genuinely onto the truth of the matter, then his knowledge and sharing of it became too dangerous, so "they" gave him and his friends/colleagues cancer (weren't there 2 others in addition to him, one a very close friend?). Perhaps after surviving the cancer "they" had to try another tactic, which was to invade his brain or switch out his soul or something. So, at some point Dr. Greer was no longer Dr. Greer- I propose this possibility after reading the material from the Horus-Ra thread. And so now he's being used to promote the dark side's agenda?

Also, did he get to be so buff after the bout with cancer? Perhaps he got on a crazy health kick and then got "addicted" to body building? Like others on this thread have asked, what kind of drugs has he been purported to be using? Of course a natural assumption would be steroids, look at the guy- and, following from that, we know that steroids can tweak someone's personality significantly and generate many of the negative traits he supposedly has...

Furthermore, in response to those "poo-pooing" the different responses/projections regarding this thread, I thinks it's natural for those of us who are into this sort of stuff to try and put the pieces together and air out our thoughts and opinions here- isn't that what this forum is for, at least in part? Where else could I talk about this- this stuff interests me, it is important to me, and this is the best place to present my questions, ideas and opinions- after all these years of keeping it all to myself, because there is no one in my surroundings who would take any of this seriously, I am so happy to have found this forum and other individuals who involve themselves with these sorts of pertinent issues. I find it to be a wonderful exercise in keeping the heart, mind and soul open and evolving.

Much gratitude and appreciation to all fellow Avalonians! Now who can fill me in? :playball:

This website is perhaps the best there is for UFO information: http://www.ufoevidence.org/

I don't know when Greer wrote this article, but it perhaps goes some way to explaining his philosophy (and that photograph of him is creepy as he looks like another person): http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc790.htm

In this article he seems to reveal (comes across to me like that) some kind of global political agenda: http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc789.htm

[Christine]

This website is perhaps the best there is for UFO information: http://www.ufoevidence.org/

I don't know when Greer wrote this article, but it perhaps goes some way to explaining his philosophy (and that photograph of him is creepy as he looks like another person): http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc790.htm

In this article he seems to reveal (comes across to me like that) some kind of global political agenda: http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc789.htm

I searched an unique phrase in the text... the article was copyrighted in 1999. Here it is published on CSETI website. http://new.cseti.org/position-papers/14-position-papers/26-art-disclosure-and-transformation-why-disclosure-of-the-ufo-et-subject-matters.html

[onawah]

I can't give you any sources as I don't recall where I read or heard it, but I remember Greer talking about his childhood, which was really brutal, and his young adulthood, during which he pretty much had to pull himself up by his own bootstraps.
That always has an effect and in his case, has certainly made him very driven.
He's stated that he has been a Contactee since he was a very young child, and that his experiences were always positive, so those would certainly be very formative experiences as well.
I recall him saying that he started working out and taking good care of his health after his bout with cancer.
I got addicted to working out too at one point in my life.
It's a positive addiction in most ways, but it can certainly also lead to excess.
As to the alleged drugs and misuse of funds, personally I think that he should be presumed innocent until proven guilty.
There are so many factions who want to see him discredited, I think it's really presumptive to believe those reports at this stage.

[mojo]

a video of Greer in April for review of both verbal and non-verbal communication...

UaT8VsRkvWk

[The One]

a video of Greer in April for review of both verbal and non-verbal communication...

UaT8VsRkvWk

Top man Greer

I have watched this and it was great to see that members of congress were actually listening

Who knows maybe these congress members went back and spoke about this conference to other congress members especially Greers statement.

PTB might be running scared now thinking that other congress members are actually talking about this so maybe they have planted the seed to try and discredit Greer whatever you think of him

I wonder who's next

[Billy]

When i read this thread About Greer I also think about all the other kids on the block. David W. B Fulford, Drake, Charles, David Icke, Cobra. Etc.

I think they are all very passionate concerning their belief systems. And most work from the heart.

we all just have to be on guard, What is important is creating our own energy and using it for the betterment of humanity. Not giving it away to any kids on block or feeding from the energy they create.

The thread brought to mind this post.




A few sources know all of the picture, and many know parts of it. But be careful when they make you glorious: always challenge, look for consistency, and never accept that that goes against your natural inclination or your higher intuitive self.

Be careful they do not feed your ego in order to manipulate you, for there are also those who would wish the destruction of Planet Earth. Do not fall into the trap that Planet Earth will be destroyed.
In your world there are many that speak, many that bring forth information: we bring forth to you information that has not been brought forth in time past, and it is the next step of forward evolutionary movement.

It is important for the peoples upon Planet Earth to understand they are not alone, and that they carry within them the coding that can evolve Planet Earth to achieve its proper purpose Remember this: those who seek to control are in high profile in the front of society and lead people in a direction that helps them evade their own responsibility.


Peace

[jaybee]

.

Developments....


Webre's email that she was replying to is on link below.


http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2013/06/exopoliticscom-receives-response-from-dr-jan-bravo-formerly-of-the-disclosure-project.html



Mr. Webre,

I have never spoken to you, and I have not communicated to you through 2 independent intermediaries, as stated below.
I am respectfully asking you to stop using my name and making up lies about me.
If you continue to do so either in print or verbally on radio, etc., I will respond with the truth on the Internet - that statements like the one below about me are lies - because they are.
I gave you no information and authorized no information to go to you. Todd said you promised not to release stuff he told you without authorization, but you did.
Again, I ask that you just stop using my name and making up lines like the one below. If I have to tell the truth about your lack of integrity, I will.
It has been suggested that you released the info because you were not invited to Stephen Bassett's Disclosure. I will not put that in print at this time.
Again, I have never communicated nor have I meant to have anything I said communicated to you. Stop stretching your story. Leave me out of it, or my involvement will be to tell the truth.

Dr. Jan Bravo


wow


.

[mojo]

Dr. Garry Nolan has visited me on two occasions to observe the phenomenon happening in Oregon. He was in the Sirius movie. He wrote this for a question on Greer.

Question 1. Did he think Greer gave a straight, full & accurate account of the findings in his film, i.e. is there more ?

Answer: In all aspects of the film, Dr. Greer, Amardeep Kaleka, and JD Seraphine were true to our agreement as to how I wanted the science to be presented. As I told them at the outset I would be hard pressed to provide formal answers under “pressure”. I only received a sample of the specimen in November, it took me two months or so to obtain all the needed equipment, specialized reagents, and advanced protocols. The procedure itself took a month to verify that I would not lose the DNA through some obvious mistake (I had to do dry runs, etc.). Once I felt comfortable I would not lose the sample through an avoidable mistake, the actual sequencing itself took two weeks, and the “assembly” process also took another 2 weeks, by which time I had only a short time before the movie was locked down for final editing. I honestly can say that in every aspect of their interaction with me they acted with complete integrity.

[Mutchie]

Id heard he was charging folks $1000 a time to show them ethereal spaceships or something ... So he cant use the disclosure funds to pay himself a wage ?

[Debra]

Jaybee,

I think it fair that the whole report from Webre, which attempts to document as much of this whole story as is possible, is cut and pasted into this thread - rather than just this email from Dr Jan Bravo.

Why? Webre I think is being transparent about his role and his reporting about the disclosure of this issue. He lays all cards on the table. That is honest journalism.


.

Developments....


Webre's email that she was replying to is on link below.


http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2013/06/exopoliticscom-receives-response-from-dr-jan-bravo-formerly-of-the-disclosure-project.html



Mr. Webre,

I have never spoken to you, and I have not communicated to you through 2 independent intermediaries, as stated below.
I am respectfully asking you to stop using my name and making up lies about me.
If you continue to do so either in print or verbally on radio, etc., I will respond with the truth on the Internet - that statements like the one below about me are lies - because they are.
I gave you no information and authorized no information to go to you. Todd said you promised not to release stuff he told you without authorization, but you did.
Again, I ask that you just stop using my name and making up lines like the one below. If I have to tell the truth about your lack of integrity, I will.
It has been suggested that you released the info because you were not invited to Stephen Bassett's Disclosure. I will not put that in print at this time.
Again, I have never communicated nor have I meant to have anything I said communicated to you. Stop stretching your story. Leave me out of it, or my involvement will be to tell the truth.

Dr. Jan Bravo


wow


.

Here is the full report:


Exopolitics.com receives response from Dr. Jan Bravo, formerly of the Disclosure Project
VANCOUVER, B.C. - Exopolitics.com has received a response from Dr. Jan Bravo, formerly of the Disclosure Project, to its article:

Sirius documentary: Reported project financial improprieties and "Dead Man's Trigger" fabrication by Dr. Steven Greer undercut UFO/ET and New Energy mission
By Alfred Lambremont Webre
http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2013/06/sirius-documentary-reported-project-financial-improprieties-and-message-falsehoods-by-dr-steven-greer-undercut-ufoet-and.html

Dr. Jan Bravo's response, together with Exopolitics.com's answer is set out below as part of our continuing coverage of this issue.

Thank you.

JUNE 22, 2013 CORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN DR. JAN BRAVO & EXOPOLITICS.COM

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: ALFRED WEBRE <exopolitics.future@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: Response
To: Jan Bravo <magicdoctor@comcast.net>
Cc: Carol Rosin Phones <spacetreaty@gmail.com>


Dear Jan Hi I am sorry you are distressed.

You communicated to me both through my long time colleague Dr Carol Rosin and through Todd and Nora Hathaway. Dr. Rosin and I communicated via Skype and she stated to me she was relaying messages from you. Dr. Carol Rosin like myself is a Disclosure Project witness.

As you know, I have worked with Steve Greer for 13 years since August 2000. His and my name appeared jointly on the Disclosure Project press conference press releases on May 9,2001.

I am also an Exopolitical journalist of 40 years standing since 1973.

Steve's reported betrayal and misuse of Disclosure Project funds is a matter of grave public interest, as well as a betrayal of the public trust of the Disclosure Project witnesses like myself.

After consulting with my attorney who was in full awareness of the above facts, I acted under my rights as a journalist under the First Amendment.

I urge you to reframe your perspective and acknowledge that the release of your statements is both journalistically ethical and more important in the public interest.

With all best wishes,

Alfred Lambremont Webre
Vancouver, BC
Tel: 604-733-8134

Sent from my iPhone

On 2013-06-22, at 6:39, Jan Bravo <magicdoctor@comcast.net> wrote:

Mr. Webre,

I have never spoken to you, and I have not communicated to you through 2 independent intermediaries, as stated below.
I am respectfully asking you to stop using my name and making up lies about me.
If you continue to do so either in print or verbally on radio, etc., I will respond with the truth on the Internet - that statements like the one below about me are lies - because they are.
I gave you no information and authorized no information to go to you. Todd said you promised not to release stuff he told you without authorization, but you did.
Again, I ask that you just stop using my name and making up lines like the one below. If I have to tell the truth about your lack of integrity, I will.
It has been suggested that you released the info because you were not invited to Stephen Bassett's Disclosure. I will not put that in print at this time.
Again, I have never communicated nor have I meant to have anything I said communicated to you. Stop stretching your story. Leave me out of it, or my involvement will be to tell the truth.

Dr. Jan Bravo


Kimberley Hi! Thank you. In March 2013 whistleblower intermediaries from insiders formerly affiliated with Dr. Greer approached Exopolitics.com with information and the "Dead Man's Trigger". We released the information and document after the premiere of the film Sirius and after specific conditions had been met. All the witness statements we have are in the article (BELOW). Dr. Jan Bravo communicated to us through 2 independent intermediaries as reported. The Sirius film crew reported through intermediaries as in the article. Dr. Ted Loder never replied to our inquiry during the investigation. On June 5, 2013 an intermediary who had contacted Drs Loder and Greer sent us an update stating that Dr. Ted Loder could not confirm the allegations, and stating that Dr. Greer considered the allegations "nonsense". I hope this update helps.



ARTICLE URL:


http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2013/06/exopoliticscom-receives-response-from-dr-jan-bravo-formerly-of-the-disclosure-project.html

Saturday, 22 June 2013 | Permalink
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I would be asking WHY Dr Carol Roisin and others stepped in here to push for disclosure about these allegations from the Greer camp?

WHY is Dr Jan Bravo speaking out now and refuting any problem? The email is fraught with some fear IMO. Something rotten is happening.

[onawah]

It all looks pretty confusing, which to me seems to indicate the possibility that perhaps someone is screwing with communications between the individuals involved in order to make trouble.
Perhaps not only for Dr. Greer, Webre, Bravo, etc.but for the whole disclosure community at large.
In those videos, Greer looks very grounded and focused to me, certainly not the demeanor of a drug addict or criminal.

[jaybee]

I would be asking WHY Dr Carol Roisin and others stepped in here to push for disclosure about these allegations from the Greer camp?

And of course 'and others'......are Major Todd Hathaway and Nora Hathaway



WHY is Dr Jan Bravo speaking out now and refuting any problem? The email is fraught with some fear IMO. Something rotten is happening.

I agree...something rotten IS happening. But I see the root of the rot differently to you.

Sour grapes from Webre because of not being invited to the Citizen Hearing on disclosure...as suggested by Dr Jan Bravo?

Or some crafty manipulation from 'others'.....?

[Hazel]

So much speculation seems like folly = chaff in the breeze

Bill says it all goes so much deeper.. perhaps we should just take some faith in that until more unfolds.

[wobbegong]

One thing that I can say with certainty is that in this youtube clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtTbIl4xKsA Greer makes his "Dead man's trigger" sound like something very powerful, like all hell would break loose if he released it.
Well, the document I read is definitely not so.
He added a lot of names to some predictable allegations, he once again told the lie about all ETs being benevolent and once again told the lie that all abductions and other related atrocities are all man-made. Not much more than that IMO.

[Brodie75]

All this stuff is just crazy to me. How my times are we going to sit at our computers
speculating about this researcher or that one being compromised.
99% of the researchers out there including Bill and Kerry have fallen victim
at some point in there search for truth, maybe with the exception of Rich Dolan.

It's the same M.O from the PTB all over again. They find a weakness and they exploit
it.
For example just because x researcher has a huge ego doesn't mean his hearts not
in the right place or y researchers affair doesn't mean her imformation isn't valid.

Constantly concerning ourselves with he said she said statements about other researchers
from so called trusted sources does nothing for anybody but the PTB and the egoes of
the ones who broke the story.
These games are being played to keep us all looking at the wrong things.
I don't care if so and so is doing drugs or if what's her names a tax cheat.

Lets stop falling for these silly games and concentrate on bettering ourselves.
Discerning what's true and what's false will become much easier when we're in tune with ourselves.

[donk]

For example just because x researcher has a huge ego doesn't mean his hearts not in the right place

I disagree, I think that by definition this means his heart is not in the right place...it is overshadowed by the ego, and behind his self absorbtion

I'm not talking about Greer; I don't know about or care about his ego. This statement just kinda rubbed me the wrong way. I accept that ego doesn't invalidate information transmitted, I'm on board with you there...but to me big ego means you should probably get your heart out in front, or at least closer to your ear so you start listening to it better

My only problem with greer would be if he was successfully pushing an agenda to convince people all ETs are benevolent. I am leaning toward that's what he (or whoever is manipulating him) is trying to do, but won't say that with any certainty. What I do know is that if that is case, he's not real successful. I don't know anybody outside of Avalon that has heard of Greer or his movie, I have never seen it promoted or available or playing anywhere, so at this point I'd put him on the lowest level of quasi-celebrities (is C-list as low as they go?)

He opened eyes and appealed to people seeking out the information back in the day, which is a good thing. Awareness if possibility of ETs is a good thing. People open to the possibility are generally discerning enough to not be as close minded as I've seen him to be on the issue that humans may not be the most advanced beings capable of harming of humans.

In these interesting times, i assume all info is tainted, and watch as most people care more about the personalities anyway. What is the purpose of this circus? What had Greer achieved? What does this harm (or help)? Besides people opinion of one man (who may not be a "man" :p!!!!)

[Bill Ryan]

WHY is Dr Jan Bravo speaking out now and refuting any problem? The email is fraught with some fear IMO. Something rotten is happening.

She is absolutely not "refuting any problem."

If you read carefully, you'll see that what Jan Bravo was protesting about was:


Webre's statement that she had contacted him via intermediaries (Jan Bravo's reference was Webre's reply to Avalon member Kimberley, published here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60223-Steven-Greer-s-core-team-has-apparently-left-him--long-report-by-Alfred-Webre-&p=690337&viewfull=1#post690337)) -- and
that Webre had broken requested and agreed confidentiality.

The part that Jan Bravo said was a lie is highlighted below. This is important. Don't get any of this wrong.

It also implies (as I would expect) that Jan Bravo has been reading this thread carefully -- as have a lot of interested others. (Please do make sure you read my very important post here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60223-Steven-Greer-s-core-team-has-apparently-left-him--long-report-by-Alfred-Webre-&p=691408&viewfull=1#post691408).)

Alfred Webre had written to Kimberley, posted publicly here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60223-Steven-Greer-s-core-team-has-apparently-left-him--long-report-by-Alfred-Webre-&p=690337&viewfull=1#post690337):

Kimberley Hi! Thank you. In March 2013 whistleblower intermediaries from insiders formerly affiliated with Dr. Greer approached Exopolitics.com with information and the "Dead Man's Trigger". We released the information and document after the premiere of the film Sirius and after specific conditions had been met. All the witness statements we have are in the article (BELOW). Dr. Jan Bravo communicated to us through 2 independent intermediaries as reported. The Sirius film crew reported through intermediaries as in the article. Dr. Ted Loder never replied to our inquiry during the investigation. On June 5, 2013 an intermediary who had contacted Drs Loder and Greer sent us an update stating that Dr. Ted Loder could not confirm the allegations, and stating that Dr. Greer considered the allegations "nonsense". I hope this update helps.

Here's my own open message to Jan Bravo, who I know will be reading this:

Dear Jan,

Please contact me privately at my Avalon email address (bill@projectavalon.net) if there is anything you would like me to understand, in full confidence. I would welcome hearing from you.

I already understand that there's a tightrope here which needs to be negotiated very carefully indeed, and with quite some caution and intelligence. It's not my intention to endanger or compromise anyone. At the same time, I am carefully making certain things clear, for all those with the wherewithal to join all the dots and read between the many lines.

My commitment is to the truth, whatever it is, and also to protect the vulnerable. I do know that everyone is watching. Please find a moment to read my important post here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60223-Steven-Greer-s-core-team-has-apparently-left-him--long-report-by-Alfred-Webre-&p=691408&viewfull=1#post691408), if you've not already done so. I welcome your feedback of my analysis, privately or publicly. I'm well aware that this is all a component of a much larger political picture.

If there's anything that you would like to be posted publicly on this thread, relayed by me as a clear public statement from yourself (of any length or brevity), I will be very pleased to do so, in the interests of truth, and the safety of all.

With my very best wishes, Bill

[Camilo]

I'm not an expert on Greer's and his doings, but here are a couple comments by Kerry Cassidy about the situation, which I concur with...

Kerry Lynn Cassidy
I have been hearing about this craziness being sent around re Greer and by Anya Briggs and perhaps others. Bottom line is that this is an OP to take us all down... Divide and conquer. DO NOT FALL FOR THIS.

Get over it. Just do good works and follow your mission.

Kerry Lynn Cassidy
DIVIDE AND CONQUER... that is their deal. Be aware... we are winning they are losing and freaking out and they want to breed descension. F---Kem.. forget this silliness regarding Greer, Anya Briggs and all the rest. Just focus on doing good work and join the REVOLUTION!

[mojo]

Without hearing from anyone in the Greer camp I would theorize that there were likely issues that raised concerns, egos and attitudes being what they are, and J.D. Seraphine made an astute observation sharing in an interview about all the in-fighting in the field of ufology. What is the hope to uncover? That Greer is being controlled and that Greer lied? Is there more? How will those answers affect us? I still feel that he has done more good for disclosure than problems created and as soon as he speaks on issues that don't resonate there will be many that will refute him, such as the 'ET's are all good debate."

[Brodie75]

For example just because x researcher has a huge ego doesn't mean his hearts not in the right place

I disagree, I think that by definition this means his heart is not in the right place...it is overshadowed by the ego, and behind his self absorbtion

I'm not talking about Greer; I don't know about or care about his ego. This statement just kinda rubbed me the wrong way. I accept that ego doesn't invalidate information transmitted, I'm on board with you there...but to me big ego means you should probably get your heart out in front, or at least closer to your ear so you start listening to it better

My only problem with greer would be if he was successfully pushing an agenda to convince people all ETs are benevolent. I am leaning toward that's what he (or whoever is manipulating him) is trying to do, but won't say that with any certainty. What I do know is that if that is case, he's not real successful. I don't know anybody outside of Avalon that has heard of Greer or his movie, I have never seen it promoted or available or playing anywhere, so at this point I'd put him on the lowest level of quasi-celebrities (is C-list as low as they go?)

He opened eyes and appealed to people seeking out the information back in the day, which is a good thing. Awareness if possibility of ETs is a good thing. People open to the possibility are generally discerning enough to not be as close minded as I've seen him to be on the issue that humans may not be the most advanced beings capable of harming of humans.

In these interesting times, i assume all info is tainted, and watch as most people care more about the personalities anyway. What is the purpose of this circus? What had Greer achieved? What does this harm (or help)? Besides people opinion of one man (who may not be a "man" :p!!!!)

I agree with you. I guess the point i was trying to make was that well intentioned
people can release bad information and vice versa. In my opinion a lot of members
of the alternative community have been led up the garden
path at least once.
In this day and age it can be very difficult to claim to know anything as fact.
So many have agendas and sources that may have once been seen as reliable

but have since been discredited. With all the conflicting agenda's and claims and counter claims.
It's enough to turn a person insane.
My point is there used to be plenty of researchers out there i once believed without much doubt. But after what has been going on with the likes of Greer, Camelot and Hoagland just to name but a few, i no longer have much confidence in the Alternit
news community.
So far my confidence in Rich Dolan is unshaken. He is one of the few who has managed to stay out of the rot while still putting himself out there.

[Peace of Mind]

His supporters left, haha. In these times I’m not surprise to hear excuses of any kind that ultimately leads to more inconsistencies and vague reasoning when it comes to “Aliens”. I think the day is very close for people to finally realize that this alien hype has always been a trick and a waste of important time, just how long has it been here since it all began and we are no closer to anything other then more division amongst the people. What I’ve seen from Greer (and others like him) is the ability to confuse and divide the people further with their tales and excuses. smh

Peace

[Delight]

For example just because x researcher has a huge ego doesn't mean his hearts not in the right place

I disagree, I think that by definition this means his heart is not in the right place...it is overshadowed by the ego, and behind his self absorbtion

I'm not talking about Greer; I don't know about or care about his ego. This statement just kinda rubbed me the wrong way. I accept that ego doesn't invalidate information transmitted, I'm on board with you there...but to me big ego means you should probably get your heart out in front, or at least closer to your ear so you start listening to it better

My only problem with greer would be if he was successfully pushing an agenda to convince people all ETs are benevolent. I am leaning toward that's what he (or whoever is manipulating him) is trying to do, but won't say that with any certainty. What I do know is that if that is case, he's not real successful. I don't know anybody outside of Avalon that has heard of Greer or his movie, I have never seen it promoted or available or playing anywhere, so at this point I'd put him on the lowest level of quasi-celebrities (is C-list as low as they go?)

He opened eyes and appealed to people seeking out the information back in the day, which is a good thing. Awareness if possibility of ETs is a good thing. People open to the possibility are generally discerning enough to not be as close minded as I've seen him to be on the issue that humans may not be the most advanced beings capable of harming of humans.

In these interesting times, i assume all info is tainted, and watch as most people care more about the personalities anyway. What is the purpose of this circus? What had Greer achieved? What does this harm (or help)? Besides people opinion of one man (who may not be a "man" :p!!!!)

I agree with you. I guess the point i was trying to make was that well intentioned
people can release bad information and vice versa. In my opinion a lot of members
of the alternative community have been led up the garden
path at least once.
In this day and age it can be very difficult to claim to know anything as fact.
So many have agendas and sources that may have once been seen as reliable

but have since been discredited. With all the conflicting agenda's and claims and counter claims.
It's enough to turn a person insane.
My point is there used to be plenty of researchers out there i once believed without much doubt. But after what has been going on with the likes of Greer, Camelot and Hoagland just to name but a few, i no longer have much confidence in the Alternit
news community.
So far my confidence in Rich Dolan is unshaken. He is one of the few who has managed to stay out of the rot while still putting himself out there.

I was one who contributed a small amount to the KickStarter campaign and received a stream in return. 7 friends here got together and watched the film.
It was less than ground shaking. It brought out the humanoid creature and seemed to want us to believe that this mummy was ET.

This mummy was found in the Atacama Desert and as early as 2002, Rense was reporting on the find (10/26/2002). Information about it has been available form several sources.

http://rense.com/general31/tinyt.htm

Why would it be assumed to be an ET? It was advertised and less than subtley promoted as such? Why would it not be as valid to promote as a "Brownie", which is the name for very small creatures who are terrestrial (and presumably have terrestrial DNA if they have bodies). By the way, my Grandmother saw a Brownie as a child. She was a pragmatic, logical person who did not make up stories. That makes me one degree from a Brownie experiencer and that is about as reliable as experiencer testimony. Being an experiencer oneself is THE reliaible and personally useable BUT unprovable material.

In the film there was a vibe of "I AM humble about being very important" from Steven Greer and I do think his behavior is egoistically self inflated. His talk on Redice
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2013/06/RIR-130613.php

did not include spontaneous interaction but a "monologue". In fact, I have heard the same spiel over from him as if a recording played several times. By the way, this is something that one will notice in quite a few of the "AlterNIT" (LOVE That One) spokespeople who write books, give seminars, teach techniques and repeat themselves in every interview. They have a schtick to perform, not ability to engage very well with new questions. What does that say?

I will point out a couple off hand in addition to Steven Greer...Eric Pearl, Dolores Cannon to show it isn't JUST Ufologists but those who say they have something BEYOND the ordinary to share. Interviewers do not usually challenge the guests. Assumptions are allowed to just dangle. WHY is that?

Drugs of any kind may cause addiction for an egoistically focused person including "materialistic" focus on fear, fame, money, power. My own personal opinion is that this adventure is not about the "truth" of information exactly but coherence between information, application and the way information actually may produce a support to innovation for us. I think we are shallow and gullible when we get thrilled over the latest "woo woo". Yes, woo woo is real. But it is not found lying in heaps on the surface...it takes OUR digging to find useable caches. I think WE should be very challenging to those who say they have "truth" and then peddle it to others.

[Mike]

all I really know about Greer is that he's unreasonable (et's are all good etc...) and honestly that's the worst thing I can say about the man. I know this because of interviews ive seen him in and articles he's written.

all else in conjecture, at best. when I want to pass along information to someone, I don't use intermediaries. I just tell them directly. I know there is likely fear on the part of the former team members, which may account for the 3rd party involvement, but if Jan Bravo wanted to stay anonymous, why not just send an anonymous msg herself? (hello Alfred, I am someone very closely connected with Stephen Greer and i'd like to tell you x, y and z...)

Greer looking dramatically different than he used to doesn't mean anything to me. when I was 21 I was sick n tired of being skinny and I hit the weights with reckless abandon, and gained 30lbs in 5 months, without the use of anything illegal. people I'd known my whole life hardly recognized me.

Greer acting dramatically different is alarming initially, but when you consider that he narrowly defeated a life threatening disease it makes more sense. I had a very similar experience, and my personality changed as well, quite significantly.

(note: for those of you that are wondering, no, i'm not Greer. first of all, i'm much more handsome...:p)

So, none of this suggests he's a Manchurian imposter or some sort of mind-controlled puppet. not to me anyway. there are people like Bill that are much further down the rabbit hole than I, and may have reason to think otherwise, but I can only go on what I know personally. I acknowledge all possibilities, and this man may indeed be compromised in some way, but dubious documents and 3rd party sources mean very little to me. unfortunately, in this field, this is the type of "evidence" we're usually working with -- we're left to put the puzzle together with circumstantial bits here and circumstantial bits there.

I don't doubt that disturbing fear tactics are used to silence whistleblowers, so I can understand the reluctance, but haven't we learned that making yourself as public as possible is the safest move of all? it is my sincere hope that we hear from jan bravo or anyone else involved or that used to be involved with Greer very soon...hopefully here on Avalon. or even Greer himself. if you're reading this Mr.Greer, please step forward and tell your side to this story. there are many here on Avalon and in the alt community at large that are still very willing to hear you out.

[Flash]

I have one question: how much is he paid for his work?

He is not paid, this is rather free, I have no comments but positive ones.

He makes below 100,000 a year (yes, 100,000 to be a public figure, be harassed by government, by ridiculized and criticized from all sides, not much money believe me), I have nothing to say.

He makes 500,000 plus a year with these project, which is about an MD salary anyhow (which Greer has given up lately, before he was doing 2 jobs, 80 hours a week), then I will start questioning and will want to see results. Many conspiracy theorist make that money and more, and I always look at them suspiciously. Better be real professional in those cases.

Simple.

So Bill, you are still ok in my books.... lol (joking of course).

[Aurelius]

I hope all the good work achieved as part of the Citizen's Hearing (http://www.citizenhearing.org/) is preserved and remains untarnished after this fiasco blows over.

Not too worried about Sirius (http://www.siriusdisclosure.com/)though. Personally I've always felt it could have been so much more.

[MistahMojoRisin]

Smells like a hit piece.

I am not in the loop and cannot add anything to Greer's credit or discredit...but this sure smells like a hit piece.

After you read Wade Frazier's account of smooth-talking infiltrators that (astoundingly) backstabbed and front-stabbed Dennis Lee in full view, some of Dennis Lee's closest allies went away with the bad guy. So, I believe a cadre of UFO/free energy geeks could certainly be torn apart from the inside by one of "Godzilla's" A-team members.

If Greer was siphoning funds for drugs and for his personal residence, you don't think he would keep that from the crew?

Stinky, stinky, stinky. I've got $5 that says Greer was set-up by a pro. Anyone want to wager something... say a hat? I must admit, I would not bet eating a hat - again, I'm very much an outsider, but this just smells like a mixture of conniving and cunning (and easy to blame on Greer who has a big ego.)

I probably had no business posting on nothing but a gut feeling, but well, there it is.

Dennis

I'm still digging through all this material (and it's connected, very loosely, with Anya Briggs' claims, here:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60173-Anya-Briggs-Leading-UFO-ET-researchers-mind-controlled-by-manipulative-DOW-Grey-ET-s.....

And there's a really interesting sting in THAT tail! --> http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60173-Anya-Briggs-Leading-UFO-ET-researchers-mind-controlled-by-manipulative-DOW-Grey-ET-s.....&p=689974&viewfull=1#post689974 )

Back to this thread here. Webre's article does look like a hit piece, but my bet (not quite an entire hat at this stage) is that this is purely because Webre does not like Greer one bit. I do know this for a fact.

Indeed, many UFO researchers and activists don't like Greer at all, but very few ever say so openly. That was one of the things that made our Camelot interview with him such a talking point: no-one had ever called him out and challenged him nearly so openly.

We may well reach the point, sometime, when people will look back to re-evaluate that interview in a rather different light.

I would certainly like to have done that one again, for a variety of reasons, but both Kerry and myself have always stood by every word we said. Importantly, Richard Dolan has always stood right with us on every point of debate, and has stated as such on record. This interview we did with him, shortly after our Greer interview, is well worth listening to.

http://projectcamelot.org/Rich_Dolan_on_Steven_Greer_4_August_2009.mp3

The feeling I have is that the Greer tent is indeed beginning to collapse. Once some people speak out, it's possible that more and more will find the courage to do so. There have been whispers about this, and much like it, for quite a long time now. I suspect that we will hear more.

After being familiar with the Anya Briggs story / Forum here and reading this it begins to make more sence. I read the whole paper (all 30 pages or so) of the "Dead Man's Trigger" and want to remind people that he [Grier] did state in it that discrediting him was a goal of the opposition. While this does not prove or disprove anything it is typical for inteligence agencies to do all of this. It is text book.

In this day and age i see why reading the minds of everyone and haveing telpathy is so dangerious. It would mean everyone knows the truth. WIth one wish I may not wish for peace, but rather the gift of telpathy for all allowing the truth and the true person to be known.

Bill, you got a invite for this invitation to a November Party in PA that Anya Briggs talked about but you never opened the E-Mail until you heard about it. THis story is enough to confuse the most ardent researcher.

[Bob]

Thanks Todd. As you know I have directly also watched and seen many blocks and trails created that take people away from finding solid energy solutions. A few folks appear to be on the right trails where they can actually see progress.

Has anyone ever created a distribution system for information for working technologies that don't have dual use? A system that wouldn't be shut down, or declared "national priority censored", aiding and abetting enemy combatants, or whatever the excuse is to stop tech releases?

For instance, would a free energy system go immediately into powering the militaries worldwide who currently
run on oil or nuclear if they are electric boats, or electric battleships or electric aircraft carriers ? Just a simple mundane question not even touching on advanced gravity propulsion tech suppression..

Is there or are there incentives for free energy workers with the spirit and heart to do it right to then produce a devices and or concept that ends up in the war machine?

I just wonder if it is something as simple as that "future karma" consideration that stops real releases and the greer's of the world can go for the exploit/cash return vibe, feigning "pseudo-disclosure" instead of the stewardship to planetary family..

Just wondering about the "spirit motivation" behind it all.

I guess every challenge helps spirit grow and there are so many micro macro micro analogies just looking about in any ones' life. I pose to the forum to look at solving the spirit issue first, the stewardship aspect second, and I suppose with that in mind and that foundation clearly setup, the tech will miraculously appear. Sorta speaking from experience here :)


Bobd

[Nanoo Nanoo]

are we trying to pick apart double and triple blind scenarios ? hmm

the reality may never be known

the lesson is dont put stock in the man but the information that rings true.

all men are corruptable , every man has his or her price. . . the truthful word is also corruptable however the words in between are not

yet we still banter and wager . hmm

N

[Billy]

Thanks Todd. As you know I have directly also watched and seen many blocks and trails created that take people away from finding solid energy solutions. A few folks appear to be on the right trails where they can actually see progress.


Is there or are there incentives for free energy workers with the spirit and heart to do it right to then produce a devices and or concept that ends up in the war machine?


Just wondering about the "spirit motivation" behind it all.

I guess every challenge helps spirit grow and there are so many micro macro micro analogies just looking about in any ones' life. I pose to the forum to look at solving the spirit issue first, the stewardship aspect second, and I suppose with that in mind and that foundation clearly setup, the tech will miraculously appear. Sorta speaking from experience here :)


Bobd

This may be a silly question,

What is it that prevents people like John Searl, Keshe, Bedini, Wade, the list goes on and on, All coming together. I do not understand.

Is it Ego or something else.

This is not directed at you Bobd but your comment brought forward that question to me yet again.

Peace

[Bob]

Thanks Todd. As you know I have directly also watched and seen many blocks and trails created that take people away from finding solid energy solutions. A few folks appear to be on the right trails where they can actually see progress.


Is there or are there incentives for free energy workers with the spirit and heart to do it right to then produce a devices and or concept that ends up in the war machine?


Just wondering about the "spirit motivation" behind it all.

I guess every challenge helps spirit grow and there are so many micro macro micro analogies just looking about in any ones' life. I pose to the forum to look at solving the spirit issue first, the stewardship aspect second, and I suppose with that in mind and that foundation clearly setup, the tech will miraculously appear. Sorta speaking from experience here :)


Bobd

This may be a silly question,

What is it that prevents people like John Searl, Keshe, Bedini, Wade, the list goes on and on, All coming together. I do not understand.

Is it Ego or something else.

This is not directed at you Bobd but your comment brought forward that question to me yet again.

Peace

Hi Billy, thanks for the welcome touch base hello. I've wondered that about searl bedini - I can speak from personal experience, that inventors or tinkerers or wanna bees get a little bit of money, get the patent bug, get the gonna make $$$$ from somebody, and at the point of going for the wanna make the money, folks have adopted, as they say by measure, the tenets of the trap. I'm going to pull up a rock by the campfire and tell a few stories here..

Traps are "must make money and more money is better than less.." Big trap big program, big barrier. "One is a sucker if one doesn't know the street smarts to make a buck, some do it better some do it worse.."

So the spirit of "free" as in "no charge" to the end user is hamstrung at the outset, no doubt destined for the creator to find out the economic system as-is, is rigged for profit motivation. Not planet wide stewardship I believe.. Keynsian economics..

I've had the discussion with a few of the planetary talk circuit crowd, the lecturers the workshop crowd who want some insight to help them change the world, but it doesn't happen, we get the workshop pass the feather or crystal, drink the sacred juice, sing kombyahhhohmmmmmm.. The world goes on, and the workshop presenter has another meal for the next month, till the next workshop. Seems that whatever is trendy, or one can create a cause over one will see a workshop, and a following, and if the people fed up, of course they will polarize.

Sometimes the polarization is by intent to create more discussion. The adage is any discussions are better than no discussions as apparently folks will look at something where there is a small stink.. Gossip u know, water cooler stuff all that..

So getting back to the spirit of things.. If we were 1903 lets say Europe or US one would have the enterprising spirit and would be trying to make money and keep it. Some would be chivalrous and some low down scoundrels. As u know there were financial folks really into empire building and empires are based on the creative manipulation of scarcity. Scarcity of electrical power and one has a potential for monopolizing if one controls the motor manufacturing, the generation stations, the coal for power plants and the marketing campaign to convince people that electrical things are worth having.. So creative marketing. Scarcity in transportation, scarcity in media (who controls the newspapers), scarcity in medicine, scarcity in energynand scarcity in transportation. All of the things we still see these days being financially manipulated. Empire building never stopped.

Who the heck cares about ets and et technology except through creative Hollywood marketing and those marketing that ets have some hidden knowledge or gifts forums or whatever marketing could appear. People believe one way or another through the marketing, gee the RobinHood Syndrome I find to be particularly amusing. Ets gonna give us the tech so we can all kick the robber barons the leftovers from the 1900's in the teeth and then what? Is our economy going to change? Are we going to believe in abundance and free power to all? Is empire building going to stop or be more enhanced?

Greer obviously serves a purpose keeping up the spiritual status quo system that economically is based on the manipulation of scarcity.. Scarcity of technology, scarcity of communications and of course scarcity of compassion towards all of worlds people and the children yet to be. Handling a workshop then or explaining one has the hidden (scarce knowledge, the secret word or secret sacred geometry or meditation, or the sacred oT rundown, all of that is the sales gig to keep the existing defective system working fully status quo. And things are not are not solved, we in essence have gone to the movies, read the funny papers and found ourselves amused provided we keep it in perspective for what it is.

So my point is, be it Greer or searl bedini or gene malov.. Everyone still is stuck in the shortage manipulation, then sell the shortage, and stay in the system. Have we any ayn rand supporters out there? Laisse faire capitalists? Objectivist? Been there done that, it still is Hollywood programming or book programming we are falling for.

I've been to Nigeria, the slums, been with the wealthy sheikhs in the Mid East , been with the industrialists, and ya met with the rocky fellas boyz to see where the mind sets are.. It's amazing. I have seen the glassy eyed stares of the sociopaths who absolutely want to rule and dominate the world, and I have met the Dalai Lama personally. People are people, and the spiritual motivation really is important.

I was in Lagos last year, needing a phone recharge card, and I accidentally overpaid it by 2x to one of the street hawkers.. And the person looked at what I paid, counted it twice and said in pigeon English to me, sir you gave me too much. And handed me back the extra. He could have kept it in a place where poverty is so dramatic, and the rich squander. The poor person just trying to make it to the next day, where oil abundance is everywhere there.. And the business man who would not pay for information to help them help their people.. What's wrong with the spirituality? I learned more there about people in a week than people get in Harvard or Wharton.. People are people.

If searl bedini or anyone produces abundant free energy, what is going to happen to the spirit. The rich will stay rich and the poor will stay poor ... In egypt once a long time ago, well 25 years :) I had a chance to simply walk with the street people and of course to walk with the highfalutin business folks.. The real people were amazing, nonglassy eyed, willing to share, and share a similar vibe they felt from me. People are people and if the spirit is there the rest can follow.

What I have seen with groups who come together to solve what appears to be missing is a very important step.. What is the spiritual philosophy of the group. And then will the philosophy's actually be continued so there is no polarizing, no ego, no reason to jump into the old paradigms.. A case in point.. A group forms to create a reality where abundance is tantamount, must become realized by all and then the group collects dues to deal with the worldly needs of the day to day operation to get the word out.. If we were look at Greer since this is a thread about folks jumping ship deserting Greer or any leader with charisma selling something to the crowd. If the cause started out noble, then didnt prove out, abundance from the ets didnt appear and some folks got easy rides and some folks didnt cause those who have didnt feel like letting those who don't have have it (boy was that a convoluted logic and circuit ;). well that is the spiritual system on operation.. A philosophy not thought out sincerely about world education and stewardship. Scarcity manipulation and the real goal of world wide stewardship, enlightenment never was meant to succeed in a system that doesn't connect the dots from what happen from thought to test to presenting the knowledge to the people to help the spirit grow.. A system designed to fail in other words spiritually has been happening way too many times.

What I am very loosely doing to get to finding some solutions is pointing out basic trouble shooting one oh one.. The identification and inventory step. ID what is happening, who are the players, what is the goal, "really".. After that step one can look at what things be accomplished, should they be accomplished. Where have I heard the greatest good for the greatest amount of people (or life) should be a guiding principle, and greatest good deals with some method to ethically and morally survive at at acceptable comfort level, not slavery. I don't think finger pointing has to go past the identification step unless one hasn't learned and needs more props or more model experiences to finally "get it".

What I have realized is that always one immediately has the tools, or means to accomplish ones next most immediate step, whatever that is. If one increases ones outreach to reach millions to make a difference in their lives where there will be controversy, where there will be a moving off status quo, it happens. If it is to be the fight the good battle, or is plush sheikhdom.. What is happening is spirit manifesting through one is getting some answers. The same ole same ole will repeat until the spiritual question is identified, asked and solved. Then we will move on..

I can assure you and everyone on the forum, there ARE many technologies that will offer many interesting outcomes and the use of them really is a function of who is going to gain more spiritual understanding having had, or worked with those props. None will see the light of day or darkness of night if the spiritual goals are not clear, and the subsequent stewardship for the use of such in the furtherance of the spiritual goals.

So I just simply asked. Where are we as a planet, or where are we as a person.. Where are we as a ma or pa, or where are we as a politician, a ruler or shelkh or liberation fighter in Afghanistan or Lebanon, or a student or someone amused by getting hidden knowledge. ;) Are we fighting, why, who, what's the stewardship end goals to be accomplished, how will we work with or be part of compassionate education, how will we assist or be providing a way for those who now have abundance deal with the worlds children and their parents ? How will folks learn gracefully, a better way?

Questions oh so many questions. But that's part of the inventory step isn't it, where am I, do I care, am I responsible, will I help others to see, to be and then to teach it to succeeding generations. Oh ya, one more thing, why are we here, why am I here.

That's the stuff that answers, why havent the searls and bedinis and oh so many others gotten further. It's spiritual not technical, the tech is there, the jump has to be in the mindset, the spirit for a global stewardship respecting all our rights to be ourselves and not that some compartmentalism philosophy puts us into, or pushes shortage manipulation to make a buck. Or as us selling spirit. I remember a really good ole musician friend of mine singing a song one day, taking about when they locked the doors on the church then said how much was the cost to get in and find God.

Peace and hmm, thoughts towards moving forward?

Bobd

[Fractalius]

I have one question: how much is he paid for his work?

He is not paid, this is rather free, I have no comments but positive ones.

He makes below 100,000 a year (yes, 100,000 to be a public figure, be harassed by government, by ridiculized and criticized from all sides, not much money believe me), I have nothing to say.


Hiya Flash, that just jogged me with a slightly unrelated point of interest.

Our current NZ Leader spent his career as a currency trader, first here in NZ and then in New York with the big boys. It is fairly certain that he was the bloke that was on the other end of the line and did the deals which caused a run on NZ currency and set off our 1987 currency crash. He has spent his whole life selling out New Zealand to his banking buddies.

Now, in 2nd term of office, he has proven to be this countries biggest tyrant of a leader, he has continued selling out out land and assets and all to help out his old buddies.

The clincher is that he donates his wage to charity because the honour of leading this country is enough for him, and he is very very wealthy as it is thanks.

So the point is, getting paid or not getting paid, doesn't necessarily mean squat.

Just as a pause for thought.;)

[Corncrake]

Bobd - those are interesting and important points which have been looked at in some depth here What technologies, activities or concepts will be made obsolete by Free Energy and on WADE FRAZIER : A Healed Planet

[Bob]

Agreed. Getting up to speed here with the multitude of posts to go through. I suppose what I find most delightful is people's willingness now more so to see then as you have asked, what will be obsoleted, who will be put out of work by defunct oil companies, defunct refineries, defunct exploration companies, and the banks that rely on scarcity and the divvying out of what they perceive as a valuable control tool.

If the issue does evoke a change in who controls whom for what purposes, a system requiring economic slaves tomkeepmit working, (somebody please jump in with a discussion on keynsian economics how the system is setup for the haves to have it at the expense of the working stiffs creating the wealth that is squandered..

The right workable steward system to help the instantly unemployed with free energy and gravity control solutions no doubt needs to be solved, and shown as workable. Who is gonna manage such a system, big government or big corporations, LOL..

[Billy]

Is there or are there incentives for free energy workers with the spirit and heart to do it right to then produce a devices and or concept that ends up in the war machine?


Just wondering about the "spirit motivation" behind it all.

I guess every challenge helps spirit grow and there are so many micro macro micro analogies just looking about in any ones' life. I pose to the forum to look at solving the spirit issue first, the stewardship aspect second, and I suppose with that in mind and that foundation clearly setup, the tech will miraculously appear. Sorta speaking from experience here :)


Bobd


This may be a silly question,

What is it that prevents people like John Searl, Keshe, Bedini, Wade, the list goes on and on, All coming together. I do not understand.

Is it Ego or something else.

This is not directed at you Bobd but your comment brought forward that question to me yet again.

Peace


Hi Billy, thanks for the welcome touch base hello.

Hello and thank you for your detailed reply.



Greer obviously serves a purpose keeping up the spiritual status quo system that economically is based on the manipulation of scarcity.. Scarcity of technology, scarcity of communications and of course scarcity of compassion towards all of worlds people and the children yet to be. Handling a workshop then or explaining one has the hidden (scarce knowledge, the secret word or secret sacred geometry or meditation, or the sacred oT rundown, all of that is the sales gig to keep the existing defective system working fully status quo. And things are not are not solved,

So my point is, be it Greer or searl bedini or gene malov.. Everyone still is stuck in the shortage manipulation,

.
What's wrong with the spirituality? I learned more there about people in a week than people get in Harvard or Wharton.. People are people.

If searl bedini or anyone produces abundant free energy, what is going to happen to the spirit. The rich will stay rich and the poor will stay poor ...

People are people and if the spirit is there the rest can follow.

What I have seen with groups who come together to solve what appears to be missing is a very important step.. What is the spiritual philosophy of the group. And then will the philosophy's actually be continued so there is no polarizing, no ego, no reason to jump into the old paradigms.. A case in point.. A group forms to create a reality where abundance is tantamount, must become realized by all

If we were look at Greer since this is a thread about folks jumping ship deserting Greer or any leader with charisma selling something to the crowd. If the cause started out noble, then didnt prove out, abundance from the ets didnt appear and some folks got easy rides and some folks didnt cause those who have didnt feel like letting those who don't have have it (boy was that a convoluted logic and circuit ;). well that is the spiritual system on operation.. A philosophy not thought out sincerely about world education and stewardship. Scarcity manipulation and the real goal of world wide stewardship, enlightenment never was meant to succeed in a system that doesn't connect the dots from what happen from thought to test to presenting the knowledge to the people to help the spirit grow.. A system designed to fail in other words spiritually has been happening way too many times.

Where have I heard the greatest good for the greatest amount of people (or life) should be a guiding principle, and greatest good deals with some method to ethically and morally survive at at acceptable comfort level, not slavery.

If one increases ones outreach to reach millions to make a difference in their lives where there will be controversy, where there will be a moving off status quo, it happens. If it is to be the fight the good battle, or is plush sheikhdom.. What is happening is spirit manifesting through one is getting some answers.

The same ole same ole will repeat until the spiritual question is identified, asked and solved. Then we will move on..

I can assure you and everyone on the forum, there ARE many technologies that will offer many interesting outcomes and the use of them really is a function of who is going to gain more spiritual understanding having had, or worked with those props.

None will see the light of day or darkness of night if the spiritual goals are not clear, and the subsequent stewardship for the use of such in the furtherance of the spiritual goals.

So I just simply asked. Where are we as a planet, or where are we as a person.. Where are we as a ma or pa, or where are we as a politician, a ruler or shelkh or liberation fighter in Afghanistan or Lebanon, or a student or someone amused by getting hidden knowledge. ;) Are we fighting, why, who, what's the stewardship end goals to be accomplished,

how will we work with or be part of compassionate education, how will we assist or be providing a way for those who now have abundance deal with the worlds children and their parents ? How will folks learn gracefully, a better way?


That's the stuff that answers, why havent the searls and bedinis and oh so many others gotten further. It's spiritual not technical,

the tech is there, the jump has to be in the mindset, the spirit for a global stewardship respecting all our rights to be ourselves

Or as us selling spirit.

Peace and hmm, thoughts towards moving forward?

Bobd

You mention the key words like "Noble" "Compassionate" "Respect" "Spiritual" "Stewardship"

Bringing forward this technology seems to remind me of the stories of the Ark of the Covenant. That unless one is of pure of heart you would not survive looking at the Ark.

Also the library of knowledge which yet is to be found. That only the pure of heart may enter.

Is this the secret of bringing forth the technology. To be pure of heart.

That "not being pure of heart" is the downfall of those trying to bring this technology into being.

This makes sense but a tall order for individuals and humanity to achieve.

It looks like we have a long wait ahead of us. But hopefully one day some noble compassionate souls with pure hearts can change the situation.

peace

[Billy]

Double post sorry.

EDIT to Add. I know Todd is pure of heart. confirmed by my great friends Eliah and Sunfeather. Who both send their regards to Todd and Nora.

peace

[Ernie Nemeth]

What I am now going to write is to verify what category I have been placed in, here at Avalon.

Bill, your post on page four of this thread made me think along tangential lines. Between the lines I see that even here we are not privy to all information, for whatever reason. That is the rub of it, isn't it? We are operating on less than full disclosure on the bits we know of, let alone the mountains of info yet to be released.

And this leads me to believe that there are secret cliques here, with gaurded portals for only those who have passed the selection process.

If true, then this avenue of research is tainted. I've had a suspicion of this for quite some time now.

If I am wrong, I am sorry. If not...well...whatever.

And I know what this statement tells others about me. But if I am right - it says a lot about the alternate media, too. I'd say more but what's the point? It is not like this will be admitted to (of course, it is already admitted, isn't it? at least to a certain degree). And I understand the concept of the "clear" personality and how perhaps, that is the criteria for the cliques around here. That is what I tell myself at least. That is what I hope is the criteria. And if that is the case, as I hope it is, then I can dream of one day being ready to join the heavy hitters.

In greer's case, then, to extrapolate, I wonder what his inner circle had to do with all this? What clique-playing game were they involved in and what, if anything, has that to do with what is now being revealed. These circles of secrets, whether for good or ill, are counter-productive to the cause. It creates suspicion, doubt, envy and ego-posturing. And those always lead to disaster.

I know secrets must be kept in this world as it now stands. A bit better discernment might be in order. Just saying...

[jaybee]

.

An interesting twist in this tale....

I was having a look at a thread about all this on ATS forum and one of the posts drew attention to the fact that Webre's 'article' has already been edited to remove one of the accusations. The one about underage boys...


7 posts from the bottom
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread951336/pg6


So I did a search and double checked on another site...


http://nesaranews.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/sirius-documentary-reported-project_3.html


and sure enough Webre has removed the underage boys bit...


It used to read...



Dr. Greer reportedly improperly “skimmed” project funds for personal real estate and sexual recreation.

[snip]


One Exopolitics.com confidential source in direct contact with former Greer core team members stated,
“[Steven Greer’s] core team has left. Besides the drugs and underage boys, he's [Greer’s] been taking the money meant for disclosure and free energy and using it to buy personal real estate, drugs and go on trips with boys.


it now says...



Dr. Greer reportedly improperly “skimmed” project funds for personal real estate.

[snip]

One Exopolitics.com confidential source in direct contact with former Greer core team members stated,

“[Steven Greer’s] core team has left. Besides the drugs..., he's [Greer’s] been taking the money meant for disclosure and free energy and using it to buy personal real estate, drugs....


So if the 'confidential source' got this wrong (lied?).....how can any of it be believed?

And how naïve (or worse) is Webre to publically put this BS out.

After retracting the bits about underage boys...did he apologise to Greer?

Is any evidence going to be produced to prove the other accusations?

I very much doubt it.

.

[Debra]

WHY is Dr Jan Bravo speaking out now and refuting any problem? The email is fraught with some fear IMO. Something rotten is happening.

She is absolutely not "refuting any problem."

If you read carefully, you'll see that what Jan Bravo was protesting about was:


Webre's statement that she had contacted him via intermediaries (Jan Bravo's reference was Webre's reply to Avalon member Kimberley, published here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60223-Steven-Greer-s-core-team-has-apparently-left-him--long-report-by-Alfred-Webre-&p=690337&viewfull=1#post690337)) -- and
that Webre had broken requested and agreed confidentiality.

The part that Jan Bravo said was a lie is highlighted below. This is important. Don't get any of this wrong.

It also implies (as I would expect) that Jan Bravo has been reading this thread carefully -- as have a lot of interested others. (Please do make sure you read my very important post here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60223-Steven-Greer-s-core-team-has-apparently-left-him--long-report-by-Alfred-Webre-&p=691408&viewfull=1#post691408).)

Alfred Webre had written to Kimberley, posted publicly here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60223-Steven-Greer-s-core-team-has-apparently-left-him--long-report-by-Alfred-Webre-&p=690337&viewfull=1#post690337):

Kimberley Hi! Thank you. In March 2013 whistleblower intermediaries from insiders formerly affiliated with Dr. Greer approached Exopolitics.com with information and the "Dead Man's Trigger". We released the information and document after the premiere of the film Sirius and after specific conditions had been met. All the witness statements we have are in the article (BELOW). Dr. Jan Bravo communicated to us through 2 independent intermediaries as reported. The Sirius film crew reported through intermediaries as in the article. Dr. Ted Loder never replied to our inquiry during the investigation. On June 5, 2013 an intermediary who had contacted Drs Loder and Greer sent us an update stating that Dr. Ted Loder could not confirm the allegations, and stating that Dr. Greer considered the allegations "nonsense". I hope this update helps.

Here's my own open message to Jan Bravo, who I know will be reading this:

Dear Jan,

Please contact me privately at my Avalon email address (bill@projectavalon.net) if there is anything you would like me to understand, in full confidence. I would welcome hearing from you.

I already understand that there's a tightrope here which needs to be negotiated very carefully indeed, and with quite some caution and intelligence. It's not my intention to endanger or compromise anyone. At the same time, I am carefully making certain things clear, for all those with the wherewithal to join all the dots and read between the many lines.

My commitment is to the truth, whatever it is, and also to protect the vulnerable. I do know that everyone is watching. Please find a moment to read my important post here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60223-Steven-Greer-s-core-team-has-apparently-left-him--long-report-by-Alfred-Webre-&p=691408&viewfull=1#post691408), if you've not already done so. I welcome your feedback of my analysis, privately or publicly. I'm well aware that this is all a component of a much larger political picture.

If there's anything that you would like to be posted publicly on this thread, relayed by me as a clear public statement from yourself (of any length or brevity), I will be very pleased to do so, in the interests of truth, and the safety of all.

With my very best wishes, Bill


It is a generous hand that you extend to Dr Jan Bravo, Bill. it is important to support folk in the community at this time, absolutely - and as you say, in the interests of truth and safety of all.

I did read the letter to Kimberley from Webre and understood clearly Jan Bravo's response, stating her position that she had not communicated with Webre in any way shape or form and also her claims that he had broken confidence. Yet, his other alleged source/ intermediary is Carol Rosin, who i assume would be saying something by now if she did not convey what Webre had published. So, it is not making sense to me.

I should be clear in saying, that my concern really was Jan Bravo's words that Webre was "making up lies about me" - hence my question, is she now refuting there is a problem? I dont know the full story, who does? But this does not prove that Webre has fabricated anything either. And I could be very well wrong, but from my take of Alfred Webre, he seems to keep fairly precise standards - and that is what I think needs to be considered here too.

I think all parties deserve to give a public statement. If we value truth, then all voices need to be heard.

Respectfully (because I do admire your work and your voice in this arena, Bill)
Debra

[Bob]

Is there or are there incentives for free energy workers with the spirit and heart to do it right to then produce a devices and or concept that ends up in the war machine?


Just wondering about the "spirit motivation" behind it all.

I guess every challenge helps spirit grow and there are so many micro macro micro analogies just looking about in any ones' life. I pose to the forum to look at solving the spirit issue first, the stewardship aspect second, and I suppose with that in mind and that foundation clearly setup, the tech will miraculously appear. Sorta speaking from experience here :)


Bobd


This may be a silly question,

What is it that prevents people like John Searl, Keshe, Bedini, Wade, the list goes on and on, All coming together. I do not understand.

Is it Ego or something else.

This is not directed at you Bobd but your comment brought forward that question to me yet again.

Peace


Hi Billy, thanks for the welcome touch base hello.

Hello and thank you for your detailed reply.



Greer obviously serves a purpose keeping up the spiritual status quo system that economically is based on the manipulation of scarcity.. Scarcity of technology, scarcity of communications and of course scarcity of compassion towards all of worlds people and the children yet to be. Handling a workshop then or explaining one has the hidden (scarce knowledge, the secret word or secret sacred geometry or meditation, or the sacred oT rundown, all of that is the sales gig to keep the existing defective system working fully status quo. And things are not are not solved,

So my point is, be it Greer or searl bedini or gene malov.. Everyone still is stuck in the shortage manipulation,

.
What's wrong with the spirituality? I learned more there about people in a week than people get in Harvard or Wharton.. People are people.

If searl bedini or anyone produces abundant free energy, what is going to happen to the spirit. The rich will stay rich and the poor will stay poor ...

People are people and if the spirit is there the rest can follow.

What I have seen with groups who come together to solve what appears to be missing is a very important step.. What is the spiritual philosophy of the group. And then will the philosophy's actually be continued so there is no polarizing, no ego, no reason to jump into the old paradigms.. A case in point.. A group forms to create a reality where abundance is tantamount, must become realized by all

If we were look at Greer since this is a thread about folks jumping ship deserting Greer or any leader with charisma selling something to the crowd. If the cause started out noble, then didnt prove out, abundance from the ets didnt appear and some folks got easy rides and some folks didnt cause those who have didnt feel like letting those who don't have have it (boy was that a convoluted logic and circuit ;). well that is the spiritual system on operation.. A philosophy not thought out sincerely about world education and stewardship. Scarcity manipulation and the real goal of world wide stewardship, enlightenment never was meant to succeed in a system that doesn't connect the dots from what happen from thought to test to presenting the knowledge to the people to help the spirit grow.. A system designed to fail in other words spiritually has been happening way too many times.

Where have I heard the greatest good for the greatest amount of people (or life) should be a guiding principle, and greatest good deals with some method to ethically and morally survive at at acceptable comfort level, not slavery.

If one increases ones outreach to reach millions to make a difference in their lives where there will be controversy, where there will be a moving off status quo, it happens. If it is to be the fight the good battle, or is plush sheikhdom.. What is happening is spirit manifesting through one is getting some answers.

The same ole same ole will repeat until the spiritual question is identified, asked and solved. Then we will move on..

I can assure you and everyone on the forum, there ARE many technologies that will offer many interesting outcomes and the use of them really is a function of who is going to gain more spiritual understanding having had, or worked with those props.

None will see the light of day or darkness of night if the spiritual goals are not clear, and the subsequent stewardship for the use of such in the furtherance of the spiritual goals.

So I just simply asked. Where are we as a planet, or where are we as a person.. Where are we as a ma or pa, or where are we as a politician, a ruler or shelkh or liberation fighter in Afghanistan or Lebanon, or a student or someone amused by getting hidden knowledge. ;) Are we fighting, why, who, what's the stewardship end goals to be accomplished,

how will we work with or be part of compassionate education, how will we assist or be providing a way for those who now have abundance deal with the worlds children and their parents ? How will folks learn gracefully, a better way?


That's the stuff that answers, why havent the searls and bedinis and oh so many others gotten further. It's spiritual not technical,

the tech is there, the jump has to be in the mindset, the spirit for a global stewardship respecting all our rights to be ourselves

Or as us selling spirit.

Peace and hmm, thoughts towards moving forward?

Bobd

You mention the key words like "Noble" "Compassionate" "Respect" "Spiritual" "Stewardship"

Bringing forward this technology seems to remind me of the stories of the Ark of the Covenant. That unless one is of pure of heart you would not survive looking at the Ark.

Also the library of knowledge which yet is to be found. That only the pure of heart may enter.

Is this the secret of bringing forth the technology. To be pure of heart.

That "not being pure of heart" is the downfall of those trying to bring this technology into being.

This makes sense but a tall order for individuals and humanity to achieve.

It looks like we have a long wait ahead of us. But hopefully one day some noble compassionate souls with pure hearts can change the situation.

peace

Howdy BillyJ

No question about the use care and feeding of the Ark of the Covenant, or touching the face of God and living to tell about it.. Pls take a look at my last post in the Potomic Initiative that Todd Hathaway initiated a couple days ago. I get into a lot more than in this thread, and I would prefer to not duplicate here a posting. I don't think necessarily we have a long wait ahead of us for the compassionate evolved souls to step forward, seems to me letting go of the ego, "i have the mysteries" (and for 555$ I will sell them to you) mentality is going to fall away. DO that within and feel the doors opening for the others to step thru and try that feeling themselves, hold it be it.. that sets the stage to get thru the next steps. Peace, and of course Joy.

[jaybee]

You mention the key words like "Noble" "Compassionate" "Respect" "Spiritual" "Stewardship"

Bringing forward this technology seems to remind me of the stories of the Ark of the Covenant. That unless one is of pure of heart you would not survive looking at the Ark.

Also the library of knowledge which yet is to be found. That only the pure of heart may enter.

Is this the secret of bringing forth the technology. To be pure of heart.

That "not being pure of heart" is the downfall of those trying to bring this technology into being.

This makes sense but a tall order for individuals and humanity to achieve.

It looks like we have a long wait ahead of us. But hopefully one day some noble compassionate souls with pure hearts can change the situation.

peace


In the same way as with the advanced technology,

When pondering on whether all ET / Interdimensionals...visiting Earth could be benevolent..(or at least benevolently neutral);)

Something Greer is slammed for...(as if it's a hanging offence, lol)

I wonder if only the pure of heart and the harmonious of mind would be able to
'physically' traverse time and space and dimensions. Especially if the mind/emotion is involved in the actual 'mechanics' of traversing.

It could be natures way of quarantining the unpure of heart....?

Keeping any being that is out of synch with the endless creative reality of existence,
in their own backyard until they spiritually evolve?




IjNTl1yBQMU



.

[Bill Ryan]

.

An interesting twist in this tale....

I was having a look at a thread about all this on ATS forum and one of the posts drew attention to the fact that Webre's 'article' has already been edited to remove one of the accusations. The one about underage boys...

7 posts from the bottom
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread951336/pg6

So I did a search and double checked on another site...

http://nesaranews.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/sirius-documentary-reported-project_3.html

and sure enough Webre has removed the underage boys bit...

It used to read...


Dr. Greer reportedly improperly “skimmed” project funds for personal real estate and sexual recreation.

[snip]

One Exopolitics.com confidential source in direct contact with former Greer core team members stated,
“[Steven Greer’s] core team has left. Besides the drugs and underage boys, he's [Greer’s] been taking the money meant for disclosure and free energy and using it to buy personal real estate, drugs and go on trips with boys.

it now says...


Dr. Greer reportedly improperly “skimmed” project funds for personal real estate.

[snip]

One Exopolitics.com confidential source in direct contact with former Greer core team members stated,

“[Steven Greer’s] core team has left. Besides the drugs..., he's [Greer’s] been taking the money meant for disclosure and free energy and using it to buy personal real estate, drugs....

So if the 'confidential source' got this wrong (lied?).....how can any of it be believed?

And how naïve (or worse) is Webre to publically put this BS out.

After retracting the bits about underage boys...did he apologise to Greer?

Is any evidence going to be produced to prove the other accusations?

I very much doubt it.

.

Maybe Alfred Webre did NOT remove that part because "the 'confidential source' got this wrong (lied)".

Maybe the 'confidential source' did NOT get this wrong.

Webre might have thought that it was unsafe / imprudent / unproven / legally risky. He may have acted on his attorney's legal advice. He might have thought that he would be endangering himself. He may have been threatened. He may have found out more about the person who had his brake lines cut.

[Christine]

Hi Ernie,

That we are not privy to all the information is a truth that can not be denied. This holds true for every single person on the planet and in particular the Disclosure community. Does game playing go on? Yes. Is there a 'clear' consciousness in any one person that knows it all? I doubt it.

As far as cliques go one could denominate them in any number of ways. One way is close friendships that develop because of shared experiences or world views, another could be insiders information, which would again entail a certain trust because of the nature of said information. Another type of clique would be of a opportunistic nature, i.e.. someone needs a safe source or space to disclose information.

It is indeed a sad statement that WE have not yet reached a place of clear concise discernment. The inner circle, outer circle will always exist until we clean up an enormous amount of garbage. It is an individual as each and every one of us.

The truth has no criteria other than truth being known to itself. I wish that the game was being played differently but at present time secrets that protect lives are necessary.

With all due respect,
Christine


What I am now going to write is to verify what category I have been placed in, here at Avalon.

Bill, your post on page four of this thread made me think along tangential lines. Between the lines I see that even here we are not privy to all information, for whatever reason. That is the rub of it, isn't it? We are operating on less than full disclosure on the bits we know of, let alone the mountains of info yet to be released.

And this leads me to believe that there are secret cliques here, with gaurded portals for only those who have passed the selection process.

If true, then this avenue of research is tainted. I've had a suspicion of this for quite some time now.

If I am wrong, I am sorry. If not...well...whatever.

And I know what this statement tells others about me. But if I am right - it says a lot about the alternate media, too. I'd say more but what's the point? It is not like this will be admitted to (of course, it is already admitted, isn't it? at least to a certain degree). And I understand the concept of the "clear" personality and how perhaps, that is the criteria for the cliques around here. That is what I tell myself at least. That is what I hope is the criteria. And if that is the case, as I hope it is, then I can dream of one day being ready to join the heavy hitters.

In greer's case, then, to extrapolate, I wonder what his inner circle had to do with all this? What clique-playing game were they involved in and what, if anything, has that to do with what is now being revealed. These circles of secrets, whether for good or ill, are counter-productive to the cause. It creates suspicion, doubt, envy and ego-posturing. And those always lead to disaster.

I know secrets must be kept in this world as it now stands. A bit better discernment might be in order. Just saying...

[Hughe]

@Bobd

It seems most people can't comprehend beyond their boundary. Intelligence or education or IQ are irrelevant.
I personally asked many questions "Why nobody has produced free energy device that people can buy it?"
There have been many free energy devices supposedly. Simple click to http://peswiki.com‎ (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Main_Page) will display whole array of alternative energy technologies.
Who ever seriously studied science or engineering ends up as mere copy cat unless one challenges the fundamental assumptions the theories are built upon.

My answer is only superhuman or powerful entity can produce paradigm changing device like practical Free Energy device nowadays. One person can't do it. Nicola Tesla had got full support from various people when he brought out motor and AC generators to the world.
To build a prototype machine and to build commercial machines for consumers is different ball game.
Theory is 5%, engineering and production refinement is 95% for any ground shaking machine.

Any real Free Energy generator that can be produced million units per year will end present civilization. So TPTB has to do everything under their power for preventing breakthrough attempt. For the last 100 years, the system had killed hundreds of individuals - scientists, inventors, and engineers.
Human collective intelligence is driven by hive mind which encourages consensus of members and authority rather than individual creativity.
I couldn't understand how the two bicycle mechanics perfected motorized aircraft in early 20th century. Does it make sense?
I mean there were thousands scientists and engineers who had to have more intelligence and experiences.

If amount of knowledge and experience dictates true intelligence - creativity and problem solving ability - most ground breaking theories and inventions would have came from the old professors. Two thousand years of history in science is opposite in contrary.

TPTB simply weeds out few brilliant minds who reaches the breakthrough in Free Energy field. Then, others keep doing stupid mistakes over and over. General public is basically in zombie state anyway. And there is another control of matrix which is hundreds laws that prevent disruptive energy technologies in market.
Technically speaking, I can't hardly do anything legally what I've been doing. I live in a 2nd world country though. First world countries such as U.S has tighter control.

I recommend Brian O'Leary's interview to anybody.
http://youtu.be/c3cBOq5-nZw

Many people even engineers praise super cars that are worth of couple millions dollars. To me it's just a piece of junk that has ugly engine and bunch of obsolete technologies. Aircraft is much more effective machine of transportation. Kids know it. I think if 10% of population has thinking power, floating cars would've replaced all cars. Human civilization spend huge resources and energy to maintain roads.

What I want to say is few individuals alone won't be able to bring out Free Energy technology to mankind. And doing nothing as average Joe will make the matter worse. TPTB must have Free Energy generators under their belt decades ago because they collected most advanced inventions in worldwide by force.

The infrastructure of present civilization is actually worse than 100 years ago. If the grid falls by man-made or natural disaster, total chaos will break out.
It's been meticulously engineered so that true knowledge - energy production and distribution - is out of touch in science. Many real scientists are at pathetic level of understanding about energy. They still believe in nuclear fusion energy becomes feasible one day. By the way, the conventional model of stars based on gravitational laws went into the toilet. Our sun is a big plasma ball that is part of the milky way circuit.

I support Dr. Greer's Free Energy project but he should open everything from start to finish. I'm skeptical about building a research lab and gathering few sciences to do the work. His team should disclose the technology first on internet: papers, computer simulation data, schematics, building instruction, and resources. Capable individuals or small organizations will build and test it independently from many locations worldwide. Local groups uses native languages that are hard to decipher by surveillance system. I experienced personally how Linux spread like wild fire. Open source based technology is hard to be stopped.

All inventors and organizations who thought they would save humanity have failed. Because they tried to keep the secret for themselves. "Support us, we will build FE power generator pretty soon." It had happened in 1980s and 1990s. TPTB is simply too powerful.

I hope you get some answers from this.

[superconsciousness]

this is a sad and disturbing situation that unfortunately cannot be transparent because it involves state intelligence agencies. there is a lot more to it that would endanger more people. it is not an agenda to go after Greer or endanger the disclosure movement. far from it. the dead man's trigger document was comedic when I first read it, like a movie script as it danced in wild fabrication - and then horrifying, as I realized Greer had created a scenario that put my husband and our family in such a vulnerable and dangerous position. It was a further betrayal from him considering we had given him money, helped him raise money for energy projects and provided him access to White House officials, House intelligence committee members, and other influential people with his Disclosure briefing document. The cult-like atmosphere around him has resulted in significant fear and confusion within the disclosure community, and then the larger play that involves actual nation states who use psychopaths to move their agendas forward - that's where it starts to get really ugly and nobody wants to talk because they are terrified justifiably so - and embarrassed that they were so taken in by him. He has a beautiful message in the beginning, and then it starts to repeat, and repeat and repeat, like a machine, the same story. There is no breaking from that story. No nuance. Only how the ETs are awesome and they come like pets, whenever he calls them and you got to train his way and do it with him because the ETs come for him, blah blah...sorry, but, from my observations of reality, diversity is the name of the game. There is a limitless nature to what is possible, conceivable, and from all study of this planet, there do appear to be negative as well as positive types of beings. This may be the crux of the psi-op that this drama unfolds within. Whose interests does it serve to believe that all ETs are service to other?

[jaybee]

Maybe Alfred Webre did NOT remove that part because "the 'confidential source' got this wrong (lied)".

Maybe the 'confidential source' did NOT get this wrong.

Webre might have thought that it was unsafe / imprudent / unproven / legally risky. He may have acted on his attorney's legal advice. He might have thought that he would be endangering himself. He may have been threatened. He may have found out more about the person who had his brake lines cut.


It all just smells like a cunning Intel Sting to me....


And interestingly it isn't the first time Webre has been called out for playing the victim and breaking promises. Stirring the pot and causing division.


http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/10/21/alfred-lambremont-webre-jd-911-disinfo-op/


Article by Jim Fetzer...



Alfred Lambremont Webre, J.D., doesn’t know when to leave bad enough alone. It is not merely that he broke his promise to me to keep his exotic personal opinions about time travel, foreknowledge, and Martian Pleisiosaurs out of The Vancouver Hearings as a condition for his serving in the capacity of a judge, but he has gone out of his way in attempting to trivialize the matter and cast ridicule and scorn upon those of us who were responsible for organizing the hearings as though he were the innocent victim of a campaign to disgrace him.


etc etc


Like you Bill...I am only interested in the truth.


Webre has made some very serious allegations against Greer, by repeating and publicizing accusations without evidence and I wonder how those allegations would stand up in a Court of Law.


.

[ThePythonicCow]

Webre has made some very serious allegations against Greer, by repeating and publicizing accusations without evidence and I wonder how those allegations would stand up in a Court of Law.
I suspect they'd stand up in Court about as well as your hearsay (quoted from Jim Fetzer) allegations against Webre :).

[superconsciousness]

Suing Webre just mucks up more of the territory, dragging everyone down. Perhaps Greer should sue him and then see where the cards lie.

Greer has also made serious allegations - slander, conspiracy, intent to kill???? - that he's a manchurian player for the Mormon conspiracy??? - against Todd. We have a strong case to sue him on a number of platforms.

[jaybee]

Suing Webre just mucks up more of the territory, dragging everyone down. Perhaps Greer should sue him and then see where the cards lie.

Greer has also made serious allegations - slander, conspiracy, intent to kill???? - that he's a manchurian player for the Mormon conspiracy??? - against Todd. We have a strong case to sue him on a number of platforms.

Go for it if you think you have a strong case.

Perhaps this is why the Dead Man's Trigger was stolen? and released prematurely.

Because you can't sue a dead man.

?


edit....anyway, I'd love to stay and play but I have to log off now and go on holiday
:p

.

[superconsciousness]

Seriously had not thought about it until this dialogue. I have been in shock and horror over the whole thing. Have also experienced some unpleasantness that has kept me quiet. Would need a lawyer to do it pro bono. No money in the cookie jar left. It all went to the energy researchers.

[mojo]

Finally got proactive and submitted a request to CSETI for Greer to answer the allegations in this thread and hoping he does.

[Cognitive Dissident]

this is a sad and disturbing situation that unfortunately cannot be transparent because it involves state intelligence agencies. there is a lot more to it that would endanger more people. it is not an agenda to go after Greer or endanger the disclosure movement. far from it. the dead man's trigger document was comedic when I first read it, like a movie script as it danced in wild fabrication - and then horrifying, as I realized Greer had created a scenario that put my husband and our family in such a vulnerable and dangerous position. It was a further betrayal from him considering we had given him money, helped him raise money for energy projects and provided him access to White House officials, House intelligence committee members, and other influential people with his Disclosure briefing document. The cult-like atmosphere around him has resulted in significant fear and confusion within the disclosure community, and then the larger play that involves actual nation states who use psychopaths to move their agendas forward - that's where it starts to get really ugly and nobody wants to talk because they are terrified justifiably so - and embarrassed that they were so taken in by him. He has a beautiful message in the beginning, and then it starts to repeat, and repeat and repeat, like a machine, the same story. There is no breaking from that story. No nuance. Only how the ETs are awesome and they come like pets, whenever he calls them and you got to train his way and do it with him because the ETs come for him, blah blah...sorry, but, from my observations of reality, diversity is the name of the game. There is a limitless nature to what is possible, conceivable, and from all study of this planet, there do appear to be negative as well as positive types of beings. This may be the crux of the psi-op that this drama unfolds within. Whose interests does it serve to believe that all ETs are service to other?

This is pretty much what I was thinking when listening to Greer's recent interview on Red Ice Radio. He was so enthusiastic about contacting these ETs using consciousness. I was just waiting for the interviewer to say something like "now, my mother used to tell me not to get into cars with strange men; how do we know whether these beyond-physical ETs have good or bad intentions towards us, and how do we know what their real intentions are?". But unfortunately he did not - he did refer to these recent allegations about Greer's team leaving him (no more detail) and Greer just swatted it aside with an ad hominem response - something like "well you know the credibility of the person who made those allegations".

It wasn't very enlightening but it was really clear that Greer believes in his way of contacting the ETs, and that we all should be contacting the ETs in that way. He is very clear about the negative power of the shadow government and has some good lines about human evolution, etc., but there is a big gap around the question of, who are these ETs, how many different ETs are there, what are their agendas, etc. He just assumes that "it's all good" as far as ET is concerned. It would be great if that were the case; I somehow think it is not that simple, but in any case the issue should be approached as a highly complex question, not a simple issue we already know the answer to.

Am I right in thinking that the nearest Greer ever got to being called out, was the "controversial" interview with Kerry and Bill?

[Whiskey_Mystic]

One of the things I am noticing in this thread is the amount of people quoting Greer as evidence of something about Greer.

Don't assume anything he has EVER said is true.
And don't assume anything he has ever said is a lie, either.

Just because someone has said they believe something or experienced something or did something, does not make it a fact. There's a lot of people assuming that such and such happened because Greer said it did and therefore that means this or that.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

I'm not offering this as an attack or defense of Greer. I am saying that much of this thread is nothing more than "I believe him" or "I don't believe him". Getting wrapped up in beliefs is what has gotten our world into the mess that it is. Set aside what you think you know and believe in order to achieve true knowledge and wisdom about anything. Those that would seek to control you will use your beliefs to do it, NO MATTER WHAT those beliefs are.

Sorry to go all Yoda on you. I just had to say something.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Finally got proactive and submitted a request to CSETI for Greer to answer the allegations in this thread and hoping he does.

Good luck with that.

[Fractalius]

Interesting reading here in these last pages. It reminds me of the thought of how dangerous the adolation of 'folk heros' can hijack their ego, or their message.
Not saying this is the case here in entirety, but it gives pause, knowing how members of alternative communities can idolise figure heads and lump their hopes and expectations upon them, even imagining them to be more than they are.
We need to remember this, it is a partnership to keep each other honest.

[mojo]

Thanks Whiskey and maybe he will respond,
Listening to the recent Greer interview mentioned above was helpful, there is information gleaned and feel that it is a very telling and worth a listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmDWdmQecSY&list=PL5F6CF74558C22F65

[tnkayaker]

@Bobd

It seems most people can't comprehend beyond their boundary. Intelligence or education or IQ are irrelevant.
I personally asked many questions "Why nobody has produced free energy device that people can buy it?"
There have been many free energy devices supposedly. Simple click to http://peswiki.com‎ (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Main_Page) will display whole array of alternative energy technologies.
...
hey there hughe, i couldnt get the preswiki link to work btw

[Bob]

Can you say who the free energy researcher was who was killed?

If any of your FE compatriots declare that they want a patent, or to make $0.10 from their FE research or from sales of a device, run as fast as you can.

Dennis

Howdy Dennis - (Bobd here), i personally met with Gene Mallove - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Mallove about a week before he died. Dunno if Todd is referring to him.

http://www.naturalnews.com/033197_Brian_OLeary_free_energy.html - Brian some folks have said had been killed that his passing was not accidental. The question of why one's health rapidly takes a turn for the worse when otherwise a person is doing ok sometimes leads to unusual speculation.. Dunno on that.

I am aware personally also of Jerry Freidenstein (sp?) who also died shortly after publishing that he and his partner had a method to convert (using a cold fusion type of reaction), substances but amazingly at conventional oxygen fired furnace temperatures (steel melting temperatures), that could produce gold in large quantities when seeded with a trace of gold, plus a few other items. Definitely it was a controlled and guided "cold fusion", but Jerry shortly thereafter died. Nice guy, he was into doing stuff for agriculture too, using a type of scalar passive tower to generate plant stimulation to facilitate extremely fast growth rates to improve salable product.. Both concepts he used are part of "over unity" or COP violations or in other words "free energy".

Its somewhat accepted in some of the "scientific nasa-like" circles that one would need infinite energies that "over unity" systems could produce to achieve ET craft, or Cabal run knockoffs. Cold-fusion systems, over-unity systems are the conventional brute force stuff. I don't hear many people talking quantum dematerialization and jumping for advanced FTL stuff. The "disclosure stuff" I just don't find any more amusing than getting into x-files personally.

Now if one wanted to research Nuclear Isomers.. that would get one into understanding ET propulsion fuels, and understanding when some FE researchers projects mysteriously "explode", melt-down..

Lastly, some of the FE tech induces destructive scalar fields which do destroy living tissue, possibly accounting for the deaths or premature unexpected diseases. Heck when folks played with the first X-rays, or started drinking radium for its so called "healing claims", they didn't realize that the "rays" given off from things can kill.. And, if it is FUSION that folks are playing with, there would have to be really nasty ionizing reactions coming from the radiation given off by the fusion.. Neutron bombardment is definitely not healthy to human tissue, and any successful free energy researcher playing without having the right monitoring equipment IF THEY BECOME successful and achieve those OU reactions may find themselves dying from the neutrons..

Just sayin, the deaths of some of the researchers could be self induced by not monitoring what they are doing, or what they may be evaluating when they see first hand what some researcher may have created and they were asked to experience it first hand for a while..

One should be technically qualified, plus have the right monitoring equipment. (ID STEP - identify what is happening)

Bobd

[Bob]

Bobd - those are interesting and important points which have been looked at in some depth here What technologies, activities or concepts will be made obsolete by Free Energy and on WADE FRAZIER : A Healed Planet

Howdy CornCrake - I haven't yet communicated with Wade Frazier, nor read any of Wade's material (on my TODO list) - I try to relay my personal experiences and understandings if I can help add something of relevance. I am finding more and more that lots of us now are willing to speak up because we all are getting more into the compassion and willingness to complete the old and move into the new, finding workability and global stewardship instead of the "just me" isolationism. I will use the words, micro macro micro - the loop or cycle from the me to the all back to the me. All models are played out from personal to global issues, and people at the level of where they area at, will experience the same spiritual issues, just from their own perspectives.

I've toyed with the argument of how many times (no its not a ligh-bulb joke setup...) HOW many times does a problem or issue have to be duplicated before consciousness "gets it", sorta like how many wars have to be fought before people realize its a waste, never accomplishes anything, wastes resources and just enriches the arms dealers...

Bobd

[JRS]

Hi Bobd and all, Tom Bearden in his 2 hour presentation to the 2009 Energywhistleblower Conference told of John Bedini changing a hunk of copper into gold using a microwave. This earned Bedini an immediate visit from the MIB who told him to cease and desist, which he has done. The ability to change copper into gold quite cheaply is a humongous problem for the powers that be! It's no surprise that someone (Freidenstein) may have lost his life over this. I have heard from someone I trust that for every ounce of gold that Russia mines, they also produce an ounce of gold by a process like this. Don't know if this is BS but it wouldn't surprise me. Tom Bearden's presentation was the most interesting audio I have ever run across. I wonder if it is still available?

[Darla Ken Pearce]

Thanks ~ this is a great thread ~ many good contributions making it a lively read!


Forgive me for being presumptuous, but I guess I’m trying to steer it toward: what is the reaction and solution part to this “problem”? Greer’s movement is in disarray—but was there anything substantive to begin with?

Without meaning to seem without compassion ~ Steven Greer did something wonderful when he held the press conference in 2000. Having been placed into a key position in the UFO community, he then was able to see that NO PROGRESS towards further disclosure efforts were made since that particular date and time.

He was all smoke and no cigar...

His film, Sirius, was a complete zero ~ waste of our time. Through false promotion, he offered much but delivered nothing of value. Nothing at all that we didn't know before it came out. Why? Greer made Sirius into a tribute to his own life and sacrifices, and used it at every opportunity to pander for yet more funds only now it was for new energy sources rather than "disclosure" at all.

Talk about false advertising. Those who got friends and family to watch wasted their time. A lost opportunity with much credibility at risk. He was not able to "deliver the goods." It fizzled and died without making any converts. Sad to witness.

Prior to release of Sirius ~ he capitalized on the death of his co-director's father and then took that tragedy as an opportunity to plead for additional funds ~ playing the sympathy and outrage cards to the max.

Question is: Why would anyone wish to halt or delay production when it offered nothing of value?

Greer got side-tracked by his own vanity and that 6" little ET body. So cute. But it's not like we haven't seen these little beings before. A link about them even appeared on Avalon. At least six months or more earlier. This was that little fairy like creature found in a cave with a hundred little bodies just like it.

Yet in Sirius, Greer allowed that body, and his search for ET ~ DNA ~ to take center stage and he went no further then that ~ even as spaceships circle above our heads. lol. It would be amusing except that it was a misuse of his position and power.

So without even considering these accusations and charges from co-workers, and all "he said/she said" aspects ~ this guy was already on very shaky ground IMO.

Now whether all this additional info is true or not, he has taken his ego trip a few steps beyond the guy, Bill and Kerry interviewed. He was distasteful then, he was distasteful to those who have encountered him at conferences and I do not think he will ever recover from these scandals. Like so many others who are being exposed, there is no lie or abuse that will remain secret. It's a sign of the times.

When I used to read about the lack of success Greer had attracting Galactic ships for his groups to see, it made me laugh. The benevolent ones (and believe it or not, they are out there) wouldn't come within ten miles of him.

Why? Because they can read our hearts.

[lizfrench]

Thought this was an interesting video of Greer recently... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DDUaJNHHco

[ThePythonicCow]

hey there hughe, i couldnt get the preswiki link to work btw
Thanks for noticing. Link fixed now :).

[gripreaper]

I am saying that much of this thread is nothing more than "I believe him" or "I don't believe him". Getting wrapped up in beliefs is what has gotten our world into the mess that it is. Set aside what you think you know and believe in order to achieve true knowledge and wisdom about anything. Those that would seek to control you will use your beliefs to do it, NO MATTER WHAT those beliefs are.

Sorry to go all Yoda on you. I just had to say something.

I love it when you "go all" YODA on us! Good to see you around.

[Ultima Thule]

Thought this was an interesting video of Greer recently... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DDUaJNHHco

It was, I however didn't agree with the statement in the beginning about the video blatantly proving Greer being manipulated. What I do agree is, that the individual on his side IS both frigging weird and resembles Greer in an uncanny way.

UT

[onawah]

That video is definitely creepy.
The guy sitting next to Greer does not look normal, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was his presence that was making Greer uncharacteristically tongue tied.
The following may shed some light on Greer's insistence that the ETs are all good guys.

OpWiG6ird90

Since we are talking about feelings here, due to the lack of clear evidence, I'm actually kind of in awe at Greer's ability to persist in achieving the goals he has chosen for himself, and his apparent imperviousness to the criticism that is always being aimed at him.
I think it's very possible that he is just extremely determined not to swerve from his purpose, rather than mind controlled or unreceptive, especially considering the fact that it has been brought home to him very clearly how quickly a life can be snuffed out, and how little time he may have to finish his mission here.
Although I don't think anyone can know the character of all the ET races that are here, I can understand someone wanting to encourage people not to be in fear and to think more about the positive possibilities inherent in the presence of ETs who are benevolent and helpful.
And also to consider that such races must be far more powerful than any negatively oriented races, in any case, since they are working in harmony with Universal law rather than against it.

[Ara]

Hi Bill, hi everyone

Normally I wouldn't get involved in something like this however events seems to have inspired (or is it conspired?) me to write about something I just randomly listened to just over a week ago which may or may not be connected to this Steven Greer event.

I chose a random interview to listen to on my ipod. it was a Kevin Smith Show interview with Courtney Brown. Courtney spoke at length about a grey dude who helped him get Farsight Institute off the ground. During that interview Courtney reported how he was told by this grey dude that there would be an event coming up, a huge scandal which surrounded the "big wavers" in the ufo/new age community. That scandal was in the works to be released at a later date when the time was right. Apparently something, some form of disclosure was going to happen and then after this event would be when this scandal would be brought to light. Courtney stated that the Establishment needed to maintain control of the agenda and bringing this scandal out was their way of maintaining hold.

Anyone interested may like to ask Courtney about this and whether the Steven Greer scandal is the one he was advised to look out for.

All my best
Ara

[Eram]

Hi Ara,

Do you know if Courtney reported this story before or after the Leaving of the core team of Steven Greer?

[Fractalius]

Still waiting for some form of response from this chap. So far it seems to be 4 or 5 or more v 1 and I know none of you. And none have done any favours for their own credibility, because, endorsements are only as good as the motives. And motives are such intriguing things. It wouldn't be the first time the good people at Avalon have been spoon fed. And at least two of those don't seem to have much respect for the million eyes watching them here. When money is a motive, it gets murkier and murkier.

[Billy]

Is there or are there incentives for free energy workers with the spirit and heart to do it right to then produce a devices and or concept that ends up in the war machine?


Just wondering about the "spirit motivation" behind it all.



Bobd



.

What's wrong with the spirituality? I learned more there about people in a week than people get in Harvard or Wharton.. People are people.


People are people and if the spirit is there the rest can follow.

What I have seen with groups who come together to solve what appears to be missing is a very important step.. What is the spiritual philosophy of the group.

And then will the philosophy's actually be continued so there is no polarizing, no well that is the spiritual system on operation.. A philosophy not thought out sincerely about world education and stewardship.

Scarcity manipulation and the real goal of world wide stewardship, enlightenment never was meant to succeed in a system that doesn't connect the dots from what happen from thought to test to presenting the knowledge to the people to help the spirit grow.. A system designed to fail in other words spiritually has been happening way too many times.


The same ole same ole will repeat until the spiritual question is identified, asked and solved. Then we will move on..


None will see the light of day or darkness of night if the spiritual goals are not clear, and the subsequent stewardship for the use of such in the furtherance of the spiritual goals.


how will we work with or be part of compassionate education, how will we assist or be providing a way for those who now have abundance deal with the worlds children and their parents ? How will folks learn gracefully, a better way?


That's the stuff that answers, why havent the searls and bedinis and oh so many others gotten further. It's spiritual not technical,

the tech is there, the jump has to be in the mindset, the spirit for a global stewardship respecting all our rights to be ourselves

Or as us selling spirit.

Peace and hmm, thoughts towards moving forward?

Bobd


You mention the key words like "Noble" "Compassionate" "Respect" "Spiritual" "Stewardship"


Is this the secret of bringing forth the technology. To be pure of heart.

That "not being pure of heart" is the downfall of those trying to bring this technology into being.

This makes sense but a tall order for individuals and humanity to achieve.

It looks like we have a long wait ahead of us. But hopefully one day some noble compassionate souls with pure hearts can change the situation.

peace


Thanks ~ this is a great thread ~ many good contributions making it a lively read!


Forgive me for being presumptuous, but I guess I’m trying to steer it toward: what is the reaction and solution part to this “problem”? Greer’s movement is in disarray—but was there anything substantive to begin with?

Without meaning to seem without compassion ~ Steven Greer did something wonderful when he held the press conference in 2000. Having been placed into a key position in the UFO community, he then was able to see that NO PROGRESS towards further disclosure efforts were made since that particular date and time.



Now whether all this additional info is true or not, he has taken his ego trip a few steps beyond the guy, Bill and Kerry interviewed. He was distasteful then, he was distasteful to those who have encountered him at conferences and I do not think he will ever recover from these scandals. Like so many others who are being exposed, there is no lie or abuse that will remain secret. It's a sign of the times.

When I used to read about the lack of success Greer had attracting Galactic ships for his groups to see, it made me laugh. The benevolent ones (and believe it or not, they are out there) wouldn't come within ten miles of him.

Why? Because they can read our hearts.





In the same way as with the advanced technology,

When pondering on whether all ET / Interdimensionals...visiting Earth could be benevolent..(or at least benevolently neutral);)

Something Greer is slammed for...(as if it's a hanging offence, lol)

I wonder if only the pure of heart and the harmonious of mind would be able to
'physically' traverse time and space and dimensions. Especially if the mind/emotion is involved in the actual 'mechanics' of traversing.

It could be natures way of quarantining the unpure of heart....?

Keeping any being that is out of synch with the endless creative reality of existence,
in their own backyard until they spiritually evolve?
.


I am convinced that any advanced technology will not be allowed until humanity have achieved a more balanced system and are working from purer hearts.

It appears from the experience of past civilizations who were using advanced technology that their downfall was due to working within an unbalanced society with service to self motivations and not for the betterment of all humanity.

I pray that this will not be repeated in our time.


Peace

[Bill Ryan]

Hi Bill, hi everyone

Normally I wouldn't get involved in something like this however events seems to have inspired (or is it conspired?) me to write about something I just randomly listened to just over a week ago which may or may not be connected to this Steven Greer event.

I chose a random interview to listen to on my ipod. it was a Kevin Smith Show interview with Courtney Brown. Courtney spoke at length about a grey dude who helped him get Farsight Institute off the ground. During that interview Courtney reported how he was told by this grey dude that there would be an event coming up, a huge scandal which surrounded the "big wavers" in the ufo/new age community. That scandal was in the works to be released at a later date when the time was right. Apparently something, some form of disclosure was going to happen and then after this event would be when this scandal would be brought to light. Courtney stated that the Establishment needed to maintain control of the agenda and bringing this scandal out was their way of maintaining hold.

Anyone interested may like to ask Courtney about this and whether the Steven Greer scandal is the one he was advised to look out for.

All my best
Ara

Hi, Ara -- very good indeed to hear from you, and thanks for the input. I'd love to hear this interview. Can you provide a reference, or a few more details (date recorded, etc)?

This ties up with my speculations in my post here (please do read if you have not done so) -->

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60223-Steven-Greer-s-core-team-has-apparently-left-him--long-report-by-Alfred-Webre-&p=691408&viewfull=1#post691408





What follows is important. This is a potentially huge issue that could affect the entire alternative media. Those who know what is and has been happening are faced with a very serious dilemma:


Do they keep quiet, and avoid risking the derailment of the entire 'alternative' disclosure movement? (It may not look good if one of their heroes ends up in jail, utterly disgraced.)
Do they speak out and (besides at the risk of their own lives, seriously) possibly set back official Disclosure by years?
Or do they speak out and restore honor and courage and truth to the lexicon of values that should be regarded as important for all humans? (After all, the ETs are watching... :) )

Think about it. Really, please do: this post is a serious one, addressed to everyone reading it.

The intel agencies also are aware of the situation, but are playing their own game.

Their strategy is unknown, certainly by me. Greer is an 'asset' - as is, knowingly or unknowingly, everyone in the alternative media. At least to some degree, these people -- including other 'heroes' like Alex Jones and David Icke -- are played, at least to some degree, as pieces on a very large chess board.

These assets are used opportunistically. They may not be aware of it at all, but it makes no difference to the larger game plan.

[Cognitive Dissident]

So who is that guy to the left of Greer in the Citizen Hearing video? For sure, he does look... unusual...

[Billy]

What follows is important. This is a potentially huge issue that could affect the entire alternative media. Those who know what is and has been happening are faced with a very serious dilemma:


Do they keep quiet, and avoid risking the derailment of the entire 'alternative' disclosure movement? (It may not look good if one of their heroes ends up in jail, utterly disgraced.)

Do they speak out and (besides at the risk of their own lives, seriously) possibly set back official Disclosure by years?

Or do they speak out and restore honor and courage and truth to the lexicon of values that should be regarded as important for all humans? (After all, the ETs are watching... :) )

Think about it. Really, please do: this post is a serious one, addressed to everyone reading it.

The intel agencies also are aware of the situation, but are playing their own game.

Their strategy is unknown, certainly by me. Greer is an 'asset' - as is, knowingly or unknowingly, everyone in the alternative media. At least to some degree, these people -- including other 'heroes' like Alex Jones and David Icke -- are played, at least to some degree, as pieces on a very large chess board.

These assets are used opportunistically. They may not be aware of it at all, but it makes no difference to the larger game plan.


I would think it has gone past the point of no return for the first option. brushing things under the carpet has never been a good option for anyone. Better to clean it up rather than hide the dirt. All options can be risky for those involved.

Speaking out and being transparent for all to see can only be the way forward.

If this is carried out from those who are pure of heart then Honour and Courage will go hand in hand. Then everyone can move away from the drama and distractions and move forwards. Hopefully with lessons learned never to be repeated.

My thoughts

peace

[mojo]

Sharing in hopes to gain more incite into Greer. He shares about 'good vs bad' starting about 7 minutes in. Later the topic on intent 22 minutes into the video is telling in how it might reflect from his own life. He responds a little about funds and other questions from Facebook viewers and the interview was recorded about 1.5 months after the movie Sirius.

iyk_a2fcxcs

[Ara]

Hi Eram, Hi Bill, the date Kevin Smith interviewed Courtney was 11/13/2012
"KEVIN SMITH SHOW - 13 NOV 2012
Courtney Brown talks about the founding of the Farsight Institute and reveals extraterrestrial assistance in its founding. He also tells his side of the story about the Art Bell/Hale Bopp debacle back in the 90's."

As I am unaware of when this debacle with Dr Greer began I cannot comment further Eram. :)

Bill after reading your post above I think it is paramount you listen to Courtney's interview.

For those who will not get the opportunity to listen to the interview I have transcribed a few comments made in the interview:

Grey dude told Courtney the important role RVing would play in the future.

Grey Dude told Courtney there would be some things that would happen and he explicitly told them what to look for.

What is going to happen is that there is going to be a moment where there is a huge scandal, some type of event that is going to almost discredit the whole UFO community out there, the big ones, the big wavers..the major players out there in the UFO, New age community.

The govt has to eliminate them (the big wavers) as a threat, not physically but by having some sort of scandal and some sort of major scandal is already in the works, already set up, but they're not doing it because it's not the right time to do it. When it becomes clear that there has to be some sort of response from the Establishment, that scandal has to come out first to sort of knock everybody out so the govt can still control the agenda.

end of quotes.

Interesting timing considering the recent Citizens Hearing on UFO Disclosure.

[ThePythonicCow]

Hi Eram, Hi Bill, the date Kevin Smith interviewed Courtney was 11/13/2012
"KEVIN SMITH SHOW - 13 NOV 2012
I found this interview of Courtney Brown by Kevin Smith from June 2012 ... listening to it now. I haven't found such an interview from November 2012 (yet, anyway.)
v__sAeP74xU

[onawah]

The present scenario re Dr. Greer certainly fits the description, doesn't it...:nod:



Grey Dude told Courtney there would be some things that would happen and he explicitly told them what to look for.

What is going to happen is that there is going to be a moment where there is a huge scandal, some type of event that is going to almost discredit the whole UFO community out there, the big ones, the big wavers..the major players out there in the UFO, New age community.

The govt has to eliminate them (the big wavers) as a threat, not physically but by having some sort of scandal and some sort of major scandal is already in the works, already set up, but they're not doing it because it's not the right time to do it. When it becomes clear that there has to be some sort of response from the Establishment, that scandal has to come out first to sort of knock everybody out so the govt can still control the agenda.

end of quotes.

Interesting timing considering the recent Citizens Hearing on UFO Disclosure.

[Ara]

Paul the interview on 13th November 2012 may not be on youtube. The snippet I placed above about the intended Interview was from within Kevin's website in the K-Pods area.

onawah, it certainly seems to fit. Time will tell. Or maybe Courtney Brown will. :)

[Bill Ryan]

Paul the interview on 13th November 2012 may not be on youtube. The snippet I placed above about the intended Interview was from within Kevin's website in the K-Pods area.


Many thanks, Ara --

I visited Kevin Smith's website (http://kevinsmithshow.com), and could see no 'K-Pods' area. I presume it's a subscriber area only.

Can you possibly play it and record the clip for us?

[Ara]

Bill I will have to ask Kevin for permission to copy and share that interview as they are copyrighted. "Kevin Smith Show broadcasts are copyrighted and may not be redistributed
in any manner whatsoever without written permission from Kevin W. Smith." So I will put a post in his forum explaining all this to him and ask if I can share that interview with you. Not quite sure how to play and clip it.


edit to add:

Twice I tried to post a request into Kevin's forum and both times it deleted before posting, not sure what is going on there. Gremlins? So I sent this message to Courtney :

Mr Brown recently I listened to an interview you did on Kevin Smith Show (13 November 2012) where you spoke at length about a scandal that was in the works to destabilize the UFO/New Age community. I am not sure if you are aware that Dr Steven Greer recently put together the Citizen Hearing for Disclosure and now there is a scandal which has surfaced with allegations of misappropriating donated money. I was wondering if this scandal is THE scandal you were referring too in that interview? Are they connected to what the grey dude pre-informed you about?

I'll post any reply. :)

[Nanoo Nanoo]

dont know if this has already been coverd.

when i watched the movie i did ask my self , if greer is in league with advanced civlisations, why is he scouring our people for advanced energy generative devices . . .

hmmm


N

[onawah]

Just for the record, it wasn't Dr. Greer who put together the 2013 Citizen Hearing for Disclosure, http://www.citizenhearing.org/ but Stephen Bassett and his organization, Paradigm Research Group, though Dr. Greer was a participant.
In May, 2001, Dr. Greer facilitated The Disclosure Project, http://www.disclosureproject.org/ which was no doubt the inspiration for the Citizen Hearing.
It would be really interesting to hear more from Courtney Brown re his RV impressions of the current situation with the allegations against Dr. Greer.
After listening to Dr. Greer on this interview that Mojo posted
iyk_a2fcxcs
where he was talking about how deep the rabbit hole goes re how much the black ops have been responsible for creating an illusion of ET abductions and portraying ETs as hostile, it's becoming clearer to me just how critical this issue is and always has been.
IMHO, much more attention needs to be devoted to it.
Given how difficult it is to penetrate some of the black op deceptions, RV just might be the way to go.


Bill I will have to ask Kevin for permission to copy and share that interview as they are copyrighted. "Kevin Smith Show broadcasts are copyrighted and may not be redistributed
in any manner whatsoever without written permission from Kevin W. Smith." So I will put a post in his forum explaining all this to him and ask if I can share that interview with you. Not quite sure how to play and clip it.


edit to add:

Twice I tried to post a request into Kevin's forum and both times it deleted before posting, not sure what is going on there. Gremlins? So I sent this message to Courtney :

Mr Brown recently I listened to an interview you did on Kevin Smith Show (13 November 2012) where you spoke at length about a scandal that was in the works to destabilize the UFO/New Age community. I am not sure if you are aware that Dr Steven Greer recently put together the Citizen Hearing for Disclosure and now there is a scandal which has surfaced with allegations of misappropriating donated money. I was wondering if this scandal is THE scandal you were referring too in that interview? Are they connected to what the grey dude pre-informed you about?

I'll post any reply. :)

[Brodie75]

Just as an aside, while we're all sitting around debating Greer and who's lying? and whats the truth?
The PTB are laughing their tits off.
Any progress made by Stephen Bassett in getting former Congressman and Women and any other political
minded people in pursuing this issue is done and dusted.
They will all be running a mile now.
Just as in the movie The Devils Addvocate where the Devil says "Vanity is my Favorate sin"
It has certainly worked a treat once again to bring down another member of the alternative media.
And once again we've all fallen for it or in some cases over ourselves ready with our knives and
I told you so's boosting our own ego's at the expense of others.
Who will be next I wonder and will we have learnt our lesson then or will we be sharpening our knives and
ego's for the next round of Hunger Games

[Fractalius]

Yes and no Brodie, as with the saying when you point the finger there are 3 pointing back. Those bringing this news out have connected a few wires to the flashing lights above their own heads too. I say this because they ought know better than to report without reporting, we have seen vacuums created in this place before. The "trust me, we can't say anything but trust me" line.

It does not take a great thinker to see where that train of discussion leads. You are right that it can only lead to character analysis and the voicing of personal response akin to a popularity poll. "Do you think Superman should have saved the baby or its mother?" form of approach. Such things are very hard to resist it seems, but I do have a certainty that the most still understand what they are not discussing and realise that we have not really got anywhere on topic. Anyone watching this thread would be a fool to think they are gaining any insight to where public opinion sits, other than they ought not take what is being said as any indication of response.

And on that note, and seeing we are up to page 11 202 posts, I wonder where this thread ends. What the point of it will become and if it has served its purpose yet, the longer it gets the further towards the afore mentioned human interest story it becomes. Time will tell they say, well Bob Marley says so too.

Jah would never give the power to a baldhead
Run come crucify the Dread.
Time alone - oh, time will tell:
Think you're in heaven, but ya living in hell;
Lock them up; oh, not the brothers,
But the ones who sets 'em up.

[Ara]

Many thanks onawah for clearing my error. :) Stephen Bassett put a great deal of energy into bringing about the Citizens Hearing, just as Steven Greer did with the Disclosure Project back in 2001. I should have stated my facts correctly. I have corresponded with Courtney and sent him the Citizens Hearing website so I hope he is now aware Stephen Bassett was the spearhead for the Citizens Hearing not Steven Greer.

[Ultima Thule]

:bump: - any new developments of late?

[Healthy Skeptic]

Hi Bill,
I have tried to read all the posts on this Thread.
Maybe I have missed something along the way.
But what is 'Your Opinion/Assessment' of Steven Greer??

[Ara]

Apologies for the late update.

I asked permission from Courtney Brown to post his reply here, he requested that I do not do so. He has his reasons and I will respect his wishes. :)

[Kooqwena LittleOwl]

I remember when Camelot did an interview with Dr. Greer & how disappointed I felt to hear Steven Greer say there's no evidence of any neg. et interaction here on earth.....I thought to myself how damn irresponsible of him to make such a broad sweeping statement. Personally I've been researching the e.t. presence/abduction issue for many yrs & found WAY to much evidence to the contrary.

Why doesn't Dr. Greer recognize the idea that to whom much is given much is expected? Having a huge world-wide audience should make a person THINK more about what they say before they say it! Every cause has an effect. Although I disagree with his opinion I admire his efforts at disclosure & his desire to help the human race advance beyond the continuous raping Mother Earth...

[Ultima Thule]

:bump:

Has anyone heard anything about this matter? I could very easily let it rest, but I think we shouldn't just let big claims like this fall into oblivion.

UT

[Neo]

manipulatory extraterrestrial or military-intelligence advance nanotechnology and hence acting out their controller's agendas, then this fact needs to be publicly exposed and discussed.

Not sure about nanotech, but "they" can manipulate anyone at anytime. So if they wanted to get rid of Greer, they could just have him think it's perfectly logical to jump off a roof. He wouldn't even know why he thought that.

[Bill Ryan]

manipulatory extraterrestrial or military-intelligence advance nanotechnology and hence acting out their controller's agendas, then this fact needs to be publicly exposed and discussed.

Not sure about nanotech, but "they" can manipulate anyone at anytime. So if they wanted to get rid of Greer, they could just have him think it's perfectly logical to jump off a roof.

Or crash into a tree in his new Mercedes in the middle of the night going at 35 mph.

The point here may be that Greer is almost certainly still considered an asset (for reasons unknown), and therefore no action is being taken about all this -- until he's not considered an asset any longer.





Has anyone heard anything about this matter? I could very easily let it rest, but I think we shouldn't just let big claims like this fall into oblivion.



My understanding is that the following is still the case -->




Core insiders including Dr. Jan Bravo (portrayed as a supporter in Sirius) abandoned Dr. Greer prior to premiere. Some “in fear for their lives”.

[jagman]

So many Gurus think that they have enough importance "To Fear for their lives" Oh no
What a joke. Let me tell you all a little secret. If the Bush's or Rockefellers, or Rothschilds
want you dead they will simply make it so. case closed!

[ThePythonicCow]

So many Gurus think that they have enough importance "To Fear for their lives" Oh no
What a joke. Let me tell you all a little secret. If the Bush's or Rockefellers, or Rothschilds
want you dead they will simply make it so. case closed!

Tyrants more often rule by fear than by death. They want their minions fearing for their lives, and they simply make that so as well.

[Bill Ryan]

If the Bush's or Rockefellers, or Rothschilds
want you dead they will simply make it so. case closed!

That's 100% true. But if they want to make you afraid, so that you won't speak up and cause a 'problem', they will (for example) interfere with your car or your motorcycle, so that you have a near-accident and are therefore brought to heel.

Case closed, as well. They don't care if you're dead or alive, or whether you survive the 'accident'. They just don't want you to talk.

[Tommy]

Just felt like adding a quote from The X-files that have haunted me since I saw it as a kid for the first time..



Character Krycek basically asks "why not just take care of Mulder"
The Cigarette Smoking Man replies after stating it is not "their policy": Kill Mulder and you risk turning one man's religion into a crusade.


As true and relevant as it gets. Considering Greer as an asset, there are far more effective ways to utilize him for the long(er) run

[ruthy]

I saw Dr. Steven Greer's documentary, and he said his "former team" all developed a rare type of cancer, including one of his close female partners, i don't know if he was involved with this woman or what their relationship was, but he seemed very upset and frightened for his own life. He narrowly escaped death too, but he somehow survived the bout with cancer...So if you are calling this man a fraud, he lied about the deaths of his team members? Something else happened to them?

I don't know much information, I heard around the web that he was backed by some higher ups, but I thought it was just people talking because they were a.) dubious about his message and wanted to trash him or b.) were disinfo agents trying to smear his reputation.

I am still a bit confused, from the videos I've seen of Dr. Greer, he didn't come across at all as someone looking to skim a buck. I mean, anyone would need funding to put out a film...I don't know, he seemed to me as a genuine person, and the people he got as witnesses were highly credible, military and government personnel, who all looked relieved and at ease to be finally talking about things they witnessed or had proof of happening.

I think there is more to this than meets the eyes. Every time we get someone who seems like a credible info leaker, they get discredited, they get smeared, ...it just makes it so hard for any of us to know what is real and to make our own judgements anymore. We no longer trust our instincts, we think we are foolish, we second and even triple guess everything we are told..so that we never actually make a real judgement call on anything out of fear of ridicule. This was done on purpose. We are left with a feeling of not knowing much more than when we started, because what can we really believe?

[onawah]

Dr. Greer takes a spiritual approach to connecting with ETs though meditation, etc.
That kind of practice can help to assure a certain amount of protection from higher-dimensional beings, as well, and that is nothing new.
So I think another possibility is that he is being protected.
Contactee Simon Parkes has experienced attacks from TPTW and survived, and he said he doesn't concern himself with their attempts, as he knows he is being protected by his ET contacts.
And possibly now TPTW are getting to the point where they feel he is no longer an asset, so they are making threats to his team, in order to isolate and make him more vulnerable.
We probably won't know until after the fact, but I think it's unwise to jump to conclusions, as there are so many possibilities, and so little verifiable info as yet.

update:Ruthy, the former team of Dr. Greer's was one he had some years ago, when they were apparently afflicted by TPTW with a rare, often fatal type of cancer. The woman who died was a close friend of his. The team in question now who have or are rumored to have left him, are a different bunch of people. The rumors are that they left partly because of financial mismanagement by Greer, but I haven't heard anything conclusive about that as yet.

[transiten]

All I have to say is I could research this 24/7 without coming to a conclusion....better turn inwards for detection of devils :scared:

[DNA]

Thank you Bill for pointing some of these things out.
It's funny.
I was thinking of starting a Stewart Swerdlow VS Dr. Steven Greer thread.
The thought being that these two sources of information are so diametrically opposed, that only one can be right.
Stewart Swerdlow basically stating that there is a series of visitors coming to this planet who all have their own agendas, they do not for the most part care for us or each other. Greer of course states that they are all fun loving beings of light who just want to land in their craft and give us all a big hug.
To be honest I wish Greer was the correct one. When I read Swerdlow, I have nervous reactions and experience miniature panic attacks.
Greer on the other hand makes me feel at ease and trusting, and well hopeful.


This just reminded me of that awesome dialogue between Mel Gibson and Mr. Phoenix in the movie Signs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsDmwb_UnLs


AsDmwb_UnLs

[KiwiElf]

I think Dr Greer's goals from the start were well intentioned, thoroughly researched and implemented with a great deal of integrity. And then "something happened", quite possibly beyond his control. It certainly doesn't invalidate the work and research he's done prior. He's human, too. :)

[DNA]

I think Dr Greer's goals from the start were well intentioned, thoroughly researched and implemented with a great deal of integrity. And then "something happened", quite possibly beyond his control. It certainly doesn't invalidate the work and research he's done prior. He's human, too. :)


What happened? What changed him?


I have a tale to tell.
As a 12 year old kid, I was lucky enough to have a best friend that would stay my best friend for the next 11 years.
The guy was a bastion of integrity, amazingly honest, and in truth it seemed like his honesty was a super power.
The music industry and drugs changed my friend. He began to lose his honesty and then he seemed to lose who he was. It was a horrible transformation to behold.


I'll be honest and I do not say this lightly. It seemed a reptilian entity moved into my friend. I don't know how this is possible. I don't even know if I believe this can happen to anyone else. But I watched it happen to my friend. The steady diet of meth amphetamine and the deterioration of his morals and ethics let something move into his body. I don't want to believe things like this are true, but with my friend it seems to have happened.


You made some points about Steven Greer that cause me to wonder if something similar had happened.

[KiwiElf]

You just answered your own question DNA :). All of the above and probably more. He was privy to information and contacts most of us only dream of.

In saying that, we've all had friends, partners, associates and even family, who can radically change from drugs, or maybe someone they befriend, circumstances, environment, personal things, blackmail, a host of combined factors. We must keep in mind that Dr Greer started this venture over 20 years ago. (With what he knows, I'm frankly amazed he's still alive!).

Are any of us the same as we were 20 years ago?

[Clear Light]

..........

Oh, for the record, so-to-speak, and because the following is publically available here (https://web.archive.org/web/20130624005713/http://projectavalon.net:80/forum4/showthread.php?60223-Steven-Greer-s-core-team-has-apparently-left-him--long-report-by-Alfred-Webre-/page4) (at an Internet Archive, you may have to tweak it a little bit), I want to repost what seems to be the original contents of the message (above), as posted by user "addsub" / "toddhathaway" / "Redstar Kachina" amongst possibly more pseudonyms eh ? :noidea:



The only people who infiltrated the "Greer team" are the Greers themselves. As a result of their iniquities, all of their former colleagues have left, though their former colleagues remain in close contact with each other. The best way to compromise a movement is to lead it, apparently...the Greers turned out to be a surprisingly sophisticated intelligence operation, seemingly designed to compromise the cohesiveness of the disclosure movement, feeding upon the ignorance and fear of those closest to them, as well as the general public. Once again, this intel op has backfired, resulting in GREATER cohesion within the disclosure community. Our loose-knit network of researchers/supporters of advanced energy technologies in the U.S. have moved beyond the Greer drama and are working together more closely now, just like the rest of their former team members, all of whom have left in disgust. Most of you would cringe if you knew everything Bill Ryan and others know about the Greers...those who were involved with the Sirius movie felt that it was in everyone's best interest to allow the movie to go forward, in spite of what they knew about them.

http://www.naturalnews.com/036112_so...influence.html (http://www.naturalnews.com/036112_sociopaths_cults_influence.html) sums up this particular personality profile very well.

...and just for the record, no, I am not a Manchurian Candidate working out of the Pentagon as an Intelligence Officer as was explicitly stated in Greer's dead man's trigger document, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night - http://www.youtube.com/user/HIExpres...?v=7jo_x7ecIFg (http://www.youtube.com/user/HIExpressGlobal?v=7jo_x7ecIFg)

How sad...and why bash the Mormon religion? Their members are more concerned about family than any other religious group I have ever interacted with over the years.

See http://www.commutefaster.com/EnergyArchive2009.html for some background information on the advanced energy field of researchers who have been struggling with suppression and lack of needed support over the years. Scroll down to the articles and audio interviews on the left side of the page and listen to each recorded testimony. Please listen to all of them. If you want to do your homework, start there.

There are now over a dozen inventors/researchers in the U.S., many of whom reside within the D.C. area (no, living in D.C. does not constitute being evil...) who are in the process of developing various techs, some of which will be open sourced as circumstances dictate...it is impossible to predict in advance how long a particular technology will take to develop and successfully demonstrate.

We are tired of waiting for public figures like Dear Leader to disclose a free energy technology to God and country, so we are now directly involved with open sourcing the technologies that others will be able to independently replicate on a low budget (hundreds of dollars). When someone knocks on your door asking for large donations to set up a lab at an undisclosed location and hire a bunch of unnamed researchers you'll never meet to save the world (and has been pitching the same snake oil for over ten years), stating that his group is weeks to months away from a working prototype, or already has a working unit but can't release the details just yet, please tell them to stop, drop and roll. They're probably full of it, or they're just ransoming the technology to the highest bidder without concern over whether anyone will actually benefit from the technology.

Meanwhile, the advanced energy technology embargo is still in effect (last person killed who was involved with adv energy tech was ~1 month ago out in CA), so the ONLY way to successfully release an advanced energy technology is to open source the tech specs to the public and training people to replicate the design(s), ensuring that as many people as possible know how to independently build the working device(s) on their own, as all other avenues to bring these technologies to the public in a timely manner have failed. We are actively networking with as many people as possible now to make this happen sooner rather than later. Trust is a big issue with both inventors and donors, primarily because of the poor track record within the advanced energy technology community at bringing working technologies to the public; however, this is more of a systemic problem (government bureaucracies and corporate profit demands/corruption...) moreso than an underlying issue with the donors and inventors themselves.

New information will be posted online via the link found at http://pscinet.us (http://pscinet.us/). You are welcome to directly interact with those researchers/inventors willing to talk openly upon request as progress unfolds.

The debate ends once and for all when this loose-knit independent VOLUNTEER group (working without pay = 0% overhead --> all funds go towards the purchase of parts/equipment) begin open sourcing advanced energy technologies to anyone with an Internet connection, while the Greers continue to collect millions (one check recently was for $1 million...another true statement) for advanced energy R&D with NOTHING to show for it to date, except a penthouse condo in D.C., a mansion in VA, a beautiful property out in CA, a nice yacht for God knows what, which of course is absolutely essential to an advanced energy R&D initiative, right?!!.

So instead of focusing on sociopaths, focus on the solution - open sourcing advanced energy technologies. 80% of the cost of goods is directly or indirectly from energy...that's a lot. Support open-sourcing advanced energy technologies and everyone wins!

Rather than get caught up in the online forum drama using limited information to determine "what right looks like", as had happened with the whole Drake debate a while back, this will be my only post to this thread. You are a relatively astute group, and Bill has done a great job at maintaining an effective forum in which to express one's views. Good luck with your investigation of Greer's situation and advanced energy technologies...I'm sorry I could not be of further assistance beyond this post and some limited support for independent R&D projects outside of normal work hours.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

THE ADVANCED ENERGY TECHNOLOGY EMBARGO WILL END ON OUR WATCH.

Now I assume that doing this is not in violation of any of the Forum Rules although of course I may have this wrong and will expect to be corrected if necessary ! :mod:

[Honesty]

..........

[Bill Ryan]

David Adair's take on Greer.

Can you kindly summarize what he says? That's a two hour interview. THX.

[Foxie Loxie]

That SG is a "smooth operator"! :bigsmile: His Shield the Grid campaign seems very worthwhile! He knows how to get things accomplished in spite of his "aw shucks" manner! :Angel:

[Honesty]

..........

[onawah]

Dr. Greer linked to NWO Religion
From: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?3596-Up-At-The-Ranch-And-Beyond&p=1162952&viewfull=1#post1162952
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ECETI Stargate

Anonymous #AnonAccSec NWO ETI AGENDA

Published 27th June 2017

Hat's off to Anonymous for exposing the truth about the disinformation program and Dr. Greer's affiliations with Hillary Clinton, John "Pedogate" Podesta and the Archon Rockefeller family. Learn DISCERNMENT, PROTECTION and how to make BENEVOLENT CONTACT at ECETI.