Is Money a Problem (was: The day of Brazil awakening)

[risveglio]

[

Mod-edit: The first 40 posts in this thread began life on the thread The day of Brazil awakening (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60206-The-day-of-Brazil-awakening&p=692409&viewfull=1#post692409). The posts were discussing "money", not "Brazil", so I split them off to a separate thread. - Paul.
]

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As long as a tool of power called money exists there will never be true equality. And that's exactly what the powers that were want.

Don't blame money, money is not the problem.

[Wind]

Don't blame money, money is not the problem.

Of course it's not the only problem, but it still is a big one.

[risveglio]

Money was a leap forward from the barter system. If you were a shoemaker and wanted a chair but the carpenter did not want shoes but wanted a steak, you didn't need to find a butcher that wanted shoes for you to get your chair. Honest money just makes it so you can buy the chair without having to find a butcher that wants shoes. You need to know the difference. What is the alternative?

[Wind]

Money was a leap forward from the barter system. If you were a shoemaker and wanted a chair but the carpenter did not want shoes but wanted a steak, you didn't need to find a butcher that wanted shoes for you to get your chair. Honest money just makes it so you can buy the chair without having to find a butcher that wants shoes. You need to know the difference. What is the alternative?

Anything is better than the current enslaving money system. It only serves the few privileged, when it should serve everyone equally.

[risveglio]

Money was a leap forward from the barter system. If you were a shoemaker and wanted a chair but the carpenter did not want shoes but wanted a steak, you didn't need to find a butcher that wanted shoes for you to get your chair. Honest money just makes it so you can buy the chair without having to find a butcher that wants shoes. You need to know the difference. What is the alternative?

Anything is better than the current enslaving money system. It only serves the few privileged, when it should serve everyone equally.

Then let's pay attention to what we call it, cause there is nothing wrong with money. Check the bold letters above.

[Wind]

Money was a leap forward from the barter system. If you were a shoemaker and wanted a chair but the carpenter did not want shoes but wanted a steak, you didn't need to find a butcher that wanted shoes for you to get your chair. Honest money just makes it so you can buy the chair without having to find a butcher that wants shoes. You need to know the difference. What is the alternative?

Anything is better than the current enslaving money system. It only serves the few privileged, when it should serve everyone equally.

Then let's pay attention to what we call it, cause there is nothing wrong with money. Check the bold letters above.

All right. There is nothing wrong with money per se, because it's just paper, metal or numbers on the screen (i.e. illusion), but the system is rigged. Why can't we make things happen without money? We might have used money for the past few thousand years, but it doesn't mean that we need it for the next millennium. We can and need to replace the system to a better one in which the corrupt ones cannot abuse it.

[risveglio]

Money was a leap forward from the barter system. If you were a shoemaker and wanted a chair but the carpenter did not want shoes but wanted a steak, you didn't need to find a butcher that wanted shoes for you to get your chair. Honest money just makes it so you can buy the chair without having to find a butcher that wants shoes. You need to know the difference. What is the alternative?

Anything is better than the current enslaving money system. It only serves the few privileged, when it should serve everyone equally.

Then let's pay attention to what we call it, cause there is nothing wrong with money. Check the bold letters above.

All right. There is nothing wrong with money per se, because it's just paper, metal or numbers on the screen (i.e. illusion), but the system is rigged. Why can't we make things happen without money? We might have used money for the past few thousand years, but it doesn't mean that we need it for the next thousands of year. We can and need to replace the system to a better one in which the corrupt ones cannot abuse it.

So we don't need a medium of exchange? Are we somehow going to turn into worker ants with no queen?

[Wind]

So we don't need a medium of exchange? Are we somehow going to turn into worker ants with no queen?

Money shouldn't be the motivating factor for us to do something, but something else instead. I don't see anything wrong with trading services.

[naste.de.lumina]

All right. There is nothing wrong with money per se, because it's just paper, metal or numbers on the screen (i.e. illusion), but the system is rigged. Why can't we make things happen without money? We might have used money for the past few thousand years, but it doesn't mean that we need it for the next thousands of year. We can and need to replace the system to a better one in which the corrupt ones cannot abuse it.

So we don't need a medium of exchange? Are we somehow going to turn into worker ants with no queen?

If we use all the technology available today (I'm not counting the hidden nodes), without many problems could feed, clothe, have villas, etc,
for all human beings on the planet live very well.
Practically it is not necessary to have a job as we know it today.
People could devote to doing what they love, art, leisure, study, whatever.
Knowledge and technology that we have.
We do not have is awareness .

[risveglio]

If we use all the technology available today (I'm not counting the hidden nodes), without many problems could feed, clothe, have villas, etc,
for all human beings on the planet live very well.
Practically it is not necessary to have a job as we know it today.
People could devote to doing what they love, art, leisure, study, whatever.
Knowledge and technology that we have.
We do not have is awareness .

Really? And who will be programming and maintaining this technology?

¤=[Post Update]=¤



So we don't need a medium of exchange? Are we somehow going to turn into worker ants with no queen?

Money shouldn't be the motivating factor for us to do something, but something else instead. I don't see anything wrong with trading services.


So if I am a shoemaker and you are the butcher and you don't want shoes, I starve. Thanks a lot.

[Wind]

So if I am a shoemaker and you are the butcher and you don't want shoes, I starve. Thanks a lot.

Maybe someone else will be needing your shoes then? But as naste.de.lumina said, there probably won't be need for "jobs" like that in the future, at least I hope not. We will be able to devote our attention to things that truly matter, things that inspire us. Who want's to be a slave to money anyways?

[risveglio]

So if I am a shoemaker and you are the butcher and you don't want shoes, I starve. Thanks a lot.

Maybe someone else will be needing your shoes then? But as naste.de.lumina said, there probably won't be need for "jobs" like that in the future, at least I hope not. We will be able to devote our attention to things that truly matter, things that inspire us. Who want's to be a slave to money anyways?

How are we going to get to this dream world? Is human nature going to change? I am sorry but this is a fantasyland solution. We really need to start thinking of real solutions. You should not be a slave to money. We should have honest money and it would only be a measure of your labor. Your productivity to society. You are not giving any realistic solution.

[Wind]

How are we going to get to this dream world? Is human nature going to change? I am sorry but this is a fantasyland solution. We really need to start thinking of real solutions. You should not be a slave to money. We should have honest money and it would only be a measure of your labor. Your productivity to society. You are not giving any realistic solution.

The answer hasn't come up yet, but it will when we will be freed from the tyranny. Where there's a will there's a way and in my opinion nothing is impossible.

[naste.de.lumina]

So if I am a shoemaker and you are the butcher and you don't want shoes, I starve. Thanks a lot.

Maybe someone else will be needing your shoes then? But as naste.de.lumina said, there probably won't be need for "jobs" like that in the future, at least I hope not. We will be able to devote our attention to things that truly matter, things that inspire us. Who want's to be a slave to money anyways?

How are we going to get to this dream world? Is human nature going to change? I am sorry but this is a fantasyland solution. We really need to start thinking of real solutions. You should not be a slave to money. We should have honest money and it would only be a measure of your labor. Your productivity to society. You are not giving any realistic solution.

Dear Friend.
If you invest a year of work and resources that are employed in the development of military industry worldwide in developing a new concept of society, you change the world. Not to mention the other areas.
You will not be able to change the paradigm of the world using the same forces that created it.
What you call realistic is keeping what we have today with other makeup.
This is unrealistic. The planet does not support this reality much longer.
If we continue to create this current reality, we do not need meat or shoes, simply because we are no longer here.
The ego is the big problem. For this and any other paradigm.

[risveglio]

Dear Friend.
If you invest a year of work and resources that are employed in the development of military industry worldwide in developing a new concept of society, you change the world. Not to mention the other areas.
You will not be able to change the paradigm of the world using the same forces that created it.
What you call realistic is keeping what we have today with other makeup.
This is unrealistic. The planet does not support this reality much longer.
If we continue to create this current reality, we do not need meat or shoes, simply because we are no longer here.
The ego is the big problem. For this and any other paradigm.
Sorry my friend but you are living in a dream world if you think all of a sudden by the drop of a hat all humans are going to stop caring about themselves first. It seems to me what you really want is a controller. You seem to think that all humans should be the same which is pretty much what they are trying to do to us now. Our whole society is to make it seem wrong to be an individual. To squash any concept of uniqueness. It's wrong to have you own thoughts, to want to live your own life. Your dream can happen but for it to happen, we must deem all people of much higher and much lower intelligence as obsolete. Eliminate them because the intelligent ones will realize its a sham and the less intelligent ones would not be able to provide there fair share. You dream of some magical utopia. Good luck with that.

And to add to that, it is not money that started our problems. For some reason, at least of the last 3000 years, man seems to think they have to have leaders. Check the bible about what God said to the Israelites the first time they demanded a King. Our problems started and will continue because we insist on government as Bastiat wisely stated "“Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.”

So, yes I would love your utopian world but I think we should look at realistic solutions. We should come to the realization that the world is not fair and we can not make it fair. And we should not point to money and say that is the problem cause it is not. Governments manipulation of money is the problem.

[naste.de.lumina]

Sorry my friend but you are living in a dream world if you think all of a sudden by the drop of a hat all humans are going to stop caring about themselves first. It seems to me what you really want is a controller. You seem to think that all humans should be the same which is pretty much what they are trying to do to us now. Our whole society is to make it seem wrong to be an individual. To squash any concept of uniqueness. It's wrong to have you own thoughts, to want to live your own life. Your dream can happen but for it to happen, we must deem all people of much higher and much lower intelligence as obsolete. Eliminate them because the intelligent ones will realize its a sham and the less intelligent ones would not be able to provide there fair share. You dream of some magical utopia. Good luck with that.

And to add to that, it is not money that started our problems. For some reason, at least of the last 3000 years, man seems to think they have to have leaders. Check the bible about what God said to the Israelites the first time they demanded a King. Our problems started and will continue because we insist on government as Bastiat wisely stated "“Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.”

So, yes I would love your utopian world but I think we should look at realistic solutions. We should come to the realization that the world is not fair and we can not make it fair. And we should not point to money and say that is the problem cause it is not. Governments manipulation of money is the problem.

Friend risveglio.
Because in those ancient times they were manipulated into thinking they needed a leader. Precisely manipulated by those who become leaders.
Just as today we are manipulated into thinking that there is no other possible way of society.
We were all placed in a small box inside it and insist that the only possibility of existence.
The money was not created with the earth.
There are people alive today who have the right to create it and define who will have possession of it or not.
But that only worked while we consent.
What we urgently need is to instruct the people of this fact.
And lock the falsehood induced indoctrination.
Individuality can only be expressed freely when slavery monetary end.
It is the lack of freedom from slavery monetary induction that makes us the same. Not otherwise.
Utopia is to persist the same mistakes over and over again expecting different results.
The world is crumbling around us.
We need to be aware of what caused this destruction so that we can avoid the same mistakes to rebuild it.
Think, dream and create.

[risveglio]

Friend risveglio.
Because in those ancient times they were manipulated into thinking they needed a leader. Precisely manipulated by those who become leaders.
Just as today we are manipulated into thinking that there is no other possible way of society.
We were all placed in a small box inside it and insist that the only possibility of existence.
The money was not created with the earth.
There are people alive today who have the right to create it and define who will have possession of it or not.
But that only worked while we consent.
What we urgently need is to instruct the people of this fact.
And lock the falsehood induced indoctrination.
Individuality can only be expressed freely when slavery monetary end.
It is the lack of freedom from slavery monetary induction that makes us the same. Not otherwise.
Utopia is to persist the same mistakes over and over again expecting different results.
The world is crumbling around us.
We need to be aware of what caused this destruction so that we can avoid the same mistakes to rebuild it.
Think, dream and create.

Ok, let me call my Pegasus and save the world. There really is no hope.

[naste.de.lumina]

Ok, let me call my Pegasus and save the world. There really is no hope.

You can disagree and argue. I respect that.
But this tactic of linking an argument to ridicule to discredit him is known.
Try another.

[risveglio]

You can disagree and argue. I respect that.
But this tactic of linking an argument to ridicule to discredit him is known.
Try another.

I apologize but if your pipe dream is valid there is nothing wrong with me believing I can have a Pegasus. I want a Pegasus. Maybe a nice black one.

[InCiDeR]

If the human race is not able to think outside an existing paradigm and meme, without falling back to a world without color, what hope are there?

The tune by the police is still fresh in my fractal memory, a new Anthem for human kind... can you hear it?

[naste.de.lumina]

You can disagree and argue. I respect that.
But this tactic of linking an argument to ridicule to discredit him is known.
Try another.

I apologize but if your pipe dream is valid there is nothing wrong with me believing I can have a Pegasus. I want a Pegasus. Maybe a nice black one.

Maybe you're right. Maybe it's even better to worry about how you will do to change their shoes with the guy that makes that produces meat.
After the nuclear bombing you can meet with these people and discuss how many pairs of shoes worth a kilogram of meat.
This is the future reality of the realistic world of money.
Just missing turn the corner and get there.
Who is crazy here?

[risveglio]

You can disagree and argue. I respect that.
But this tactic of linking an argument to ridicule to discredit him is known.
Try another.

I apologize but if your pipe dream is valid there is nothing wrong with me believing I can have a Pegasus. I want a Pegasus. Maybe a nice black one.

Maybe you're right. Maybe it's even better to worry about how you will do to change their shoes with the guy that makes that produces meat.
After the nuclear bombing you can meet with these people and discuss how many pairs of shoes worth a kilogram of meat.
This is the future reality of the realistic world of money.
Just missing turn the corner and get there.
Who is crazy here?

Yeah, you are right. It is sane to beleive that by some magic 7.x billion people are going to suddenly change to have no ego and just be compassionate loving people. I know the answer on who is crazy.

But thanks for this, now I know I can unsubscribe from Avalon and go back to my old life where the most important things were when am I going to be able to have my next party and who will win the Superbowl. There is no need to try to change anything because we are all going to magically turn into angels.

Sorry but the idea that one horse could grow some wings seems more realistic to me, but I will go check if there is an MLB game for me to watch and see if there are any good happy hour specials. Thanks, so much for freeing up all my time.

[naste.de.lumina]

Yeah, you are right. It is sane to beleive that by some magic 7.x billion people are going to suddenly change to have no ego and just be compassionate loving people. I know the answer on who is crazy.

But thanks for this, now I know I can unsubscribe from Avalon and go back to my old life where the most important things were when am I going to be able to have my next party and who will win the Superbowl. There is no need to try to change anything because we are all going to magically turn into angels.

Sorry but the idea that one horse could grow some wings seems more realistic to me, but I will go check if there is an MLB game for me to watch and see if there are any good happy hour specials. Thanks, so much for freeing up all my time.

Who knows if the Superbowl or at this party you can convince some people to stand up and protest what you believe to be wrong in your reality.
It would be a good start. The subject of this topic is one example.
But do not forget.
Money is the main tool for the situation requires their protest.
And it will not be magic, will by necessity.

[risveglio]

Who knows if the Superbowl or at this party you can convince some people to stand up and protest what you believe to be wrong in your reality.
It would be a good start. The subject of this topic is one example.
But do not forget.
Money is the main tool for the situation requires their protest.
And it will not be magic, will by necessity.

Yes I can see it now, everyone will just work for their fellow man. Nobody will have to work too hard but nobody will take it easy. This magic is going to create a utopia and we will have unicorns and rainbows for everyone.

MONEY IS NOT THE PROBLEM.

Lets see, what has been used as "money". Tulips, paper, gold, silver, cows, stones, shells, blankets, rice, copper, salt, fish, barley, beads, teas leaves, belts, blood, and even bat ****. I guess all these things are evil evil things that we will not have in our utopian world.

[jiminii]

Who knows if the Superbowl or at this party you can convince some people to stand up and protest what you believe to be wrong in your reality.
It would be a good start. The subject of this topic is one example.
But do not forget.
Money is the main tool for the situation requires their protest.
And it will not be magic, will by necessity.

it is very simple ... you take all your creations to a big supermarket ..and the market accepts them and gives an equivalent return with something someone else put there. so you give them belts made of leather and get a sack of rice and beans and 2 tomatoes, 3 onions , 5 apples, 4 pairs of socks and a rolls royce

very easy

jim

[spiritguide]

When Maslow's basic needs are met by the masses by their own fruition then the elite 's money will no longer get them their maids, gardeners and materials. We can cut them off with general strikes. IMHO

[naste.de.lumina]

Who knows if the Superbowl or at this party you can convince some people to stand up and protest what you believe to be wrong in your reality.
It would be a good start. The subject of this topic is one example.
But do not forget.
Money is the main tool for the situation requires their protest.
And it will not be magic, will by necessity.

Yes I can see it now, everyone will just work for their fellow man. Nobody will have to work too hard but nobody will take it easy. This magic is going to create a utopia and we will have unicorns and rainbows for everyone.

MONEY IS NOT THE PROBLEM.

Lets see, what has been used as "money". Tulips, paper, gold, silver, cows, stones, shells, blankets, rice, copper, salt, fish, barley, beads, teas leaves, belts, blood, and even bat ****. I guess all these things are evil evil things that we will not have in our utopian world.

Anything beyond your ability to understand the reality may be utopia for you. I understand that. You are not alone.
Thank you for your attention.
Good luck.
Peace.

[risveglio]

Anything beyond your ability to understand the reality may be utopia for you. I understand that. You are not alone.
Thank you for your attention.
Good luck.
Peace.

And if you are not aware enough to see reality, nothing will change. You offer no solution, nothing that will help. I spent almost two years on this site with a bunch of loonies saying that some special date in December was going to be some ascension and everything will be better. I am sure this pipe dream statement, very much like yours; though at least they had some lunatics selling books convincing them it is true, probably held a lot of people from making some real changes.

So please, tell me, when the this magical transformation is going to happen to 7.x billion people? Can we make it happen now? And while we wait, why should we bother trying to fix the world?

[naste.de.lumina]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/946679_290054007807595_1393942947_n.jpg

Hey ... you seem a little nervous.
My belief that money is the main tool of enslavement of the human being does not change from what you think or not think.
I spent my whole life watching a bunch of crazy slaves in mind control supporting genocide against their own brothers to maintain the status quo of their own masters.
These same people who are ready to explode you with their drones if you farted in place not fart free zone.
You accuse me of not giving any real solution, but besides call me crazy utopian dreamer, heard no alternative on your part, unless the defense of the cabal tool (money) as irreplaceable.
This magical transformation will only happen when all the people who think as you get rid of the stupid beliefs that make you believe that it is possible or not possible.
I close this discussion here, I will not answer any more.
I wish you all the best.

[DeDukshyn]

Anything beyond your ability to understand the reality may be utopia for you. I understand that. You are not alone.
Thank you for your attention.
Good luck.
Peace.

And if you are not aware enough to see reality, nothing will change. You offer no solution, nothing that will help. I spent almost two years on this site with a bunch of loonies saying that some special date in December was going to be some ascension and everything will be better. I am sure this pipe dream statement, very much like yours; though at least they had some lunatics selling books convincing them it is true, probably held a lot of people from making some real changes.

So please, tell me, when the this magical transformation is going to happen to 7.x billion people? Can we make it happen now? And while we wait, why should we bother trying to fix the world?

I think the question might be better put as to when will people with an attitude similar to yours be able to shift their perspective? That might be when ...







“The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral

begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it.

Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth.

Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate.

Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.

Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.”


Martin Luther King, Jr.

[risveglio]

Anything beyond your ability to understand the reality may be utopia for you. I understand that. You are not alone.
Thank you for your attention.
Good luck.
Peace.

And if you are not aware enough to see reality, nothing will change. You offer no solution, nothing that will help. I spent almost two years on this site with a bunch of loonies saying that some special date in December was going to be some ascension and everything will be better. I am sure this pipe dream statement, very much like yours; though at least they had some lunatics selling books convincing them it is true, probably held a lot of people from making some real changes.

So please, tell me, when the this magical transformation is going to happen to 7.x billion people? Can we make it happen now? And while we wait, why should we bother trying to fix the world?

I think the question might be better put as to when will people with an attitude similar to yours be able to shift their perspective? That might be when ...







“The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral

begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it.

Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth.

Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate.

Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.

Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.”


Martin Luther King, Jr.

Oh please. I have no problem with your fantasy land idea that we are going to enter 4D in a year, well maybe 5, well maybe 10. But until we do, we are in 3D world and people are in pain. We need solutions in this world that we seem to all be experiencing. If there is a collapse or if we just dial things back and expose the controllers, fine. But people will still need to eat, we will still need doctors, we will still need garbage collectors. Claiming that the problem is money is just asinine or niave or maybe that is the real evil. Point to the right hand while the left hand robs us. Create false enemies so nobody knows the truth. If its just semantics and everyone here means fiat money, fine. But instead of offering me an alternative, I got, All Humans are going to change. Riiiiiiiiiiiiight. Back to my Pegasus.

[DeDukshyn]

Anything beyond your ability to understand the reality may be utopia for you. I understand that. You are not alone.
Thank you for your attention.
Good luck.
Peace.

And if you are not aware enough to see reality, nothing will change. You offer no solution, nothing that will help. I spent almost two years on this site with a bunch of loonies saying that some special date in December was going to be some ascension and everything will be better. I am sure this pipe dream statement, very much like yours; though at least they had some lunatics selling books convincing them it is true, probably held a lot of people from making some real changes.

So please, tell me, when the this magical transformation is going to happen to 7.x billion people? Can we make it happen now? And while we wait, why should we bother trying to fix the world?

I think the question might be better put as to when will people with an attitude similar to yours be able to shift their perspective? That might be when ...







“The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral

begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it.

Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth.

Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate.

Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.

Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.”


Martin Luther King, Jr.

Oh please. I have no problem with your fantasy land idea that we are going to enter 4D in a year, well maybe 5, well maybe 10. But until we do, we are in 3D world and people are in pain. We need solutions in this world that we seem to all be experiencing. If there is a collapse or if we just dial things back and expose the controllers, fine. But people will still need to eat, we will still need doctors, we will still need garbage collectors. Claiming that the problem is money is just asinine or niave or maybe that is the real evil. Point to the right hand while the left hand robs us. Create false enemies so nobody knows the truth. If its just semantics and everyone here means fiat money, fine. But instead of offering me an alternative, I got, All Humans are going to change. Riiiiiiiiiiiiight. Back to my Pegasus.

Who said change always comes easy? But it will come, if we learn to shift our perspectives sooner than later the pain will be lessened. But if we hold onto the archaic mechanisms of irrational thought that have bound us for millennium, the change will be painful. But I have no doubt the world will change -- either out of pain until we can bear no more or out of a perspective shift that will allow the majority to see clearly what needs to be done. Are things changing? If I compare 20 years ago to now, there is no doubt ... we are waking up and the change is inevitable. Call whatever "D" you want, but don't get your hopes up for that pegasus. ;)

[risveglio]

I just want to apologize for somehow seeming "violent". As someone that preaches and teaches the Non-Aggression Principle it hurts to be called "violent". I do have have fire and debate in me and tend to get loud, but that is the Italian in me, I guess somehow it came out in my writing. Also I think I read on one of these threads there solar flares the may effect us, it could be that. Or maybe I am under psychic attack since both my wife and I have been getting plenty of strange pains. Either way sorry for the violence.

I am not the only one on this forum that sees the value of "money". I bet we may even have a mod or two. This is a thread about the riots in Brazil, the comment was about money. This was not a thread about Enlightenment. I may go back and respond to the money quote a different way or maybe another member will beat me to it.

[Poly Hedra]

risveglio
why do WE have to offer YOU a solution? Why do WE have to explain to YOU how everything will work or otherwise we're not living in reality? pppffffttttt!

figure it out for yourself like everyone else is doing, get down off your high horse and stop demanding solutions! unless your looking for a controller to take care of these problems for you!

there are plenty of ideas, websites, research that looks into viable alternatives to the fiat system.
if you want some solutions, do some research!
instead of barging in on naste.de.luminas thread, why dont you start a thread yourself about money.

thanks.

your coming across as sarcastic and confrontational, just in case you didnt realise.



Anything beyond your ability to understand the reality may be utopia for you. I understand that. You are not alone.
Thank you for your attention.
Good luck.
Peace.

And if you are not aware enough to see reality, nothing will change. You offer no solution, nothing that will help. I spent almost two years on this site with a bunch of loonies saying that some special date in December was going to be some ascension and everything will be better. I am sure this pipe dream statement, very much like yours; though at least they had some lunatics selling books convincing them it is true, probably held a lot of people from making some real changes.

So please, tell me, when the this magical transformation is going to happen to 7.x billion people? Can we make it happen now? And while we wait, why should we bother trying to fix the world?


naste.de.lumina
And thanks for keeping us updated on what is happening in Brazil and elsewhere.

[risveglio]

Oh gracious me. All of you on a higher frequency are so critical of us low frequency individuals. I know you all think you are better than me because I think a voluntary society where there is no force or monopoly of violence would be better than what we have now. I also don't see a mass awakening of human beings, though I would love to see it. So I am looking for maybe some practical, honest discussion in the meantime until we have this awakening.

I just don't see having a tool to make exchange easier as a problem. I do think the manipulation of money is a big problem but if you look at history, at least here in the US. Money was not the problem until around 1913. Then it got a bit worse in 1933. And then it got really bad in 1970s. I am not on a high horse. I am not the one claiming I know any of you. I am the one being called violent, small minded and whatever other back handed statements are above because I said MONEY IS NOT THE PROBLEM. Thanks all. I can see how loving and peaceful the future will be for people you do not agree with.

[risveglio]

So we don't need a medium of exchange? Are we somehow going to turn into worker ants with no queen?

Money shouldn't be the motivating factor for us to do something, but something else instead. I don't see anything wrong with trading services.

Low frequency evil guy here. I do agree that money should not be a motivating factor in what someone does and I think for most successful people that came out of poverty or lower middle class, it isn't. The wealthiest man I know personally is also the most humble and the most generous person I have ever met. He actually came here from Brazil with his family when he was 15 and believe me they had very little to live on. Money was not his motivation for success so it does not drive him. He just feel in love with Math and Science and ended up being very successful in his endeavors. He is now considered a bad man because he is successful?

[risveglio]

So if I am a shoemaker and you are the butcher and you don't want shoes, I starve. Thanks a lot.

Maybe someone else will be needing your shoes then? But as naste.de.lumina said, there probably won't be need for "jobs" like that in the future, at least I hope not. We will be able to devote our attention to things that truly matter, things that inspire us. Who want's to be a slave to money anyways?

Evil, violent dude again. With Honest money, people would not have to work just to survive. That is definitely true and is a key reason why governments want control of the money. If they control the money, they control the people. With honest money and hopefully free energy, people should have a ton of time to innovate, inspire, become closer to nature and there version of God. Now that could lead us closer to a utopian society in my mind because I believe most people are inherently good (except for me of course) and would be more kind and compassionate to there fellow man without the manipulation of being everyone for themselves.

[DeDukshyn]

Ok I'm laughing my ass off now ... good stuff ..

I always imagined getting back to a barter system based on honesty and integrity. How to get to a point like that from "money" systems, - I don't have that answer up front for a post. But, I think that as long as we have a system where something "virtual" is supposed to represents the value of something actual, we will have issues. It is a system so flawed it is not worth trying to make work in my opinion. Value of transactions need to be real to avoid all the abuse and pitfalls that come with the current systems. Like it or not its the situation we are in, and "fixing" things requires removing what artificially represents value and unfortunately due to the super greedy elite this the the reality ...

Now calm those violent tendencies ... ;)

[Poly Hedra]

Have no issue with what your talking about, getting cheap digs in there and just being generally rude is the issue and no i dont think i'm better than you or on a higher frequency than you. I'm done.

[ghostrider]

How are we going to get to this dream world? Is human nature going to change? I am sorry but this is a fantasyland solution. We really need to start thinking of real solutions. You should not be a slave to money. We should have honest money and it would only be a measure of your labor. Your productivity to society. You are not giving any realistic solution.

The answer hasn't come up yet, but it will when we will be freed from the tyranny. Where there's a will there's a way and in my opinion nothing is impossible.

lets start by doing what our ET cousins do... everyone works four hrs, four days a week, doing a job that serves the good of the community/all ... the other hrs of the day one is fee to be free , study, or create art, music, help your neighbor, etc ... if one does the four hrs for the good of all , then the things needed are provided , home , food, energy ... everyone works at what they are naturally good at, carpenter, metal working, farming, animal care , healthcare, etc ... the smartest people are put in charge ... everything done by committe ... no money needed ... no one person leader ... there's a blue print ... if you dont help others, you don't get housing, food, or energy ... no rewards for being lazy and selfish ...

[risveglio]

How are we going to get to this dream world? Is human nature going to change? I am sorry but this is a fantasyland solution. We really need to start thinking of real solutions. You should not be a slave to money. We should have honest money and it would only be a measure of your labor. Your productivity to society. You are not giving any realistic solution.

The answer hasn't come up yet, but it will when we will be freed from the tyranny. Where there's a will there's a way and in my opinion nothing is impossible.

lets start by doing what our ET cousins do... everyone works four hrs, four days a week, doing a job that serves the good of the community/all ... the other hrs of the day one is fee to be free , study, or create art, music, help your neighbor, etc ... if one does the four hrs for the good of all , then the things needed are provided , home , food, energy ... everyone works at what they are naturally good at, carpenter, metal working, farming, animal care , healthcare, etc ... the smartest people are put in charge ... everything done by committe ... no money needed ... no one person leader ... there's a blue print ... if you dont help others, you don't get housing, food, or energy ... no rewards for being lazy and selfish ...

At least this is an answer. Thanks. What do our ET cousins do with the lazy? Do they just not eat and die? What stops the smart people that are in charge from taking over?