BBC Wimbledon advertising tournament says it all - Packed with chemtrail subliminal messages

[naste.de.lumina]

http://www.zengardner.com/wp-content/uploads/tennischemo1.jpg


EjObTueT56M

[indigopete]

This is becoming a joke.

You really think those are "chemtrail subliminal messages" ?

I don't. What is the "subliminal message" supposed to be - "you are being chemtrailled ?"

I'm sorry for the antagonistic tone, but I really think the whole alternative community news and current affairs discussions are being corrupted and made a laughing stock of by "most" (not all) of the chemtrail agenda. People are just looking up in the sky and calling anything they see a chemtrail. Its getting ridiculous.

Is this promotion of an Icelandic rock album from 1976 also a "chemtrail subliminal message" ?...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1zQBQzdALM

21972

[naste.de.lumina]

This is becoming a joke.

You really think those are "chemtrail subliminal messages" ?

I don't. What is the "subliminal message" supposed to be - "you are being chemtrailled ?"

I'm sorry for the antagonistic tone, but I really think the whole alternative community news and current affairs discussions are being corrupted and made a laughing stock of by "most" (not all) of the chemtrail agenda. People are just looking up in the sky and calling anything they see a chemtrail. Its getting ridiculous.

Is this promotion of an Icelandic rock album from 1976 also a "chemtrail subliminal message" ?...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1zQBQzdALM

21972

But I suspect that the only person free, really free, is one that is not afraid of ridicule. - Luis Fernando Verissimo.

Although I do not agree, I respect your opinion.
Thank you.

[indigopete]

Although I do not agree, I respect your opinion.

It isn't a question of respect or lack thereof.

Internet forums like these began as a positive force for free expression and represented a genuine challenge to the monopoly and censorship of the mainstream media. Over last few years however, that power has been massively diminished, if not neutralised due to the amount of indulgent rumour-mill posting that now goes on.

There is no journalistic censor saying that posters have to have some basis for their claims so it's left to the public and fellow posters to perform that function.

A few years ago, the idea started to be put about that there was something "fishy" about jet contrails which "persisted" and did not dissipate as it was asserted that "genuine" contrails did. This "idea" caught on - even though it's disinfo and complete nonsense - to the point where people felt justified in posting pictures of any kind of sky filled with long contrails and calling them "chemtrails" with no other basis whatsoever than this internet rumour.

Returning to your post in that context, pictures of blue sky with contrails have been used for decades in promotional material as I've just demonstrated to you. Therefore you need something more specific than just more of the same to claim that there's a subversive propaganda activity associated with those opening titles. That was the basis for my reply to your post and I think you should have a serious think about why you're posting stuff like this and if you really know anything about what constitutes a "chemtrail" and what doesn't. Most people are actually clueless about it but they don't care. They still feel they are on the "right side of the argument" and that's enough.

Well I'm afraid it isn't enough. Its one of the things that's sinking the whole alternative news media credibility like a brick built Sh*t house and all the good stuff it's doing along with it.

[naste.de.lumina]

Although I do not agree, I respect your opinion.

It isn't a question of respect or lack thereof.

Internet forums like these began as a positive force for free expression and represented a genuine challenge to the monopoly and censorship of the mainstream media. Over last few years however, that power has been massively diminished, if not neutralised due to the amount of indulgent rumour-mill posting that now goes on.

There is no journalistic censor saying that posters have to have some basis for their claims so it's left to the public and fellow posters to perform that function.

A few years ago, the idea started to be put about that there was something "fishy" about jet contrails which "persisted" and did not dissipate as it was asserted that "genuine" contrails did. This "idea" caught on - even though it's disinfo and complete nonsense - to the point where people felt justified in posting pictures of any kind of sky filled with long contrails and calling them "chemtrails" with no other basis whatsoever than this internet rumour.

Returning to your post in that context, pictures of blue sky with contrails have been used for decades in promotional material as I've just demonstrated to you. Therefore you need something more specific than just more of the same to claim that there's a subversive propaganda activity associated with those opening titles. That was the basis for my reply to your post and I think you should have a serious think about why you're posting stuff like this and if you really know anything about what constitutes a "chemtrail" and what doesn't. Most people are actually clueless about it but they don't care. They still feel they are on the "right side of the argument" and that's enough.

Well I'm afraid it isn't enough. Its one of the things that's sinking the whole alternative news media credibility like a brick built Sh*t house and all the good stuff it's doing along with it.


This is an example of chemtrail. I know what it is, and not like that they are playing this crap in my head.

cnWO5KT8IhI

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I do not know where you got the idea that these images are normal clouds and nothing but paranoia persons head with ridiculous ideas.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT0csmw6s_K9pNI51fGwy4lZPxQPOG4hPsZeHltQsl33H7pPlQa

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/chemtrails5.jpg

The program geoengineering and / or terraforming began to be designed and developed a long, long time.

Do you believe that the loss of credibility of alternative forums took the information posted without critérios. I agree with you. But of course, by the nature of the subjects treated in these forums, the difficulty of demonstrating evidence.
To prove and refutation.

The video I posted the BBC clearly shows traces of tracks in various ways in my opinion. Crossed, parallel, etc.

Now, it's not because you found a picture of an advertisement '70s, which coincidentally resemble the chemtrail planes dropping, that the explanation for all the images are the same.

I will repeat again, I respect your opinion. But I completely disagree.

If you think I posted this video with intent to harm and / or discredit this forum, which is representative of the most respected alternative, I suggest you contact the forum administration and make a formal accusation.

Thank you for your attention.

[araucaria]

In this particular instance, they are probably ordinary contrails. Wimbledon is no distance from Heathrow Airport and has low-flying aircraft overhead all the time.

[noprophet]

In this particular instance, they are probably ordinary contrails. Wimbledon is no distance from Heathrow Airport and has low-flying aircraft overhead all the time.

That video is made of layers of other videos and graphics. That's not just someone filming the sky while someone else swings a tennis racket. Anything you see in those promos isn't by accident, each image is carefully chosen and assembled. They could have easily made that sky look however they want.

For some reason a big X must have seemed like a nice image to them. ;)

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

Well seeing as we on the subject of Wimbledon.. The number 7 played out in the airplane crash and lets look at the number 7s here..

On the 7th of the 7th month on the 77th year of waiting for a brit to win a Wimbledon Event. Andy Murray lifts the trophy for Britain (although he's scottish) and..

The last British female winner was in 1977.. Sarah Virginia Wade.
The 100th anniversary of the founding of the Wimbledon Championships, but it was also the 25th year of the reign (the Silver Jubilee) of Queen Elizabeth II. The Queen attended the Wimbledon championships for the first time in a quarter-century to watch the final.

[naste.de.lumina]

The constant viewing of these images in all media has served to normalize them and place them beyond the range of conscious awareness.

And the desired effect is effective as we can see the reactions of people who entered as normal these chemical trails in our skies.


a9LTvStFz0E

It is not a new thing, for MSM and other entities to subliminally normalize the abnormal practice of chemtrail spraying, but rarely has it been so completely blatant as to feature in every single shot of the sky. Note that they even feature an aircraft spraying the material into the air at 0:18 and again in slow motion at 1:04.

Other examples of the normalization agenda can be viewed at:

5Zx2pESgDGY

The BBC are clearly complicit with the 'hidden in plain sight' Chemtrail agenda. They do not cover it in their news, they speak occasionally of Geoengineering as if it is a matter that may be needed in the future, but they bombard you with their images of it constantly and especially within children's programmes and films. Question why that would be.

TV Ark is an excellent website whereby you can look at past Wimbledon opening credits from 1981 to 2010. There it is clear to see that they have decided to include subliminal Chemtrail images only this year.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9LTvStFz0E

[Prodigal Son]

In this particular instance, they are probably ordinary contrails. Wimbledon is no distance from Heathrow Airport and has low-flying aircraft overhead all the time.Low-flying aircraft don't leave contrails. It is the low temperature of high altitudes that causes the phenomenon.

[Prodigal Son]

The constant viewing of these images in all media has served to normalize them and place them beyond the range of conscious awareness.

And the desired effect is effective as we can see the reactions of people who entered as normal these chemical trails in our skies.

That is exactly right, and precisely what we have witnessed on this thread.

These trails and fake clouds were few and far between 20 years ago. They were not prevalent like they are today. These messages are clearly designed to promote the idea that they are a normal part of the scenery.

Chemical spraying has been admitted to by the US and British governments in the past. It is no longer a "conspiracy theory". Anyone who thinks they have for some reason mended their ways are the same people who think that whoever killed JFK or came up with the idea for Operation Northwoods have disappeared from the face of the earth. "Oh, that was fifty years ago" is the response I got recently.

That's when I usually tell them to go back to watching American Idol, and that thankfully there are more than a few conscious people who will try to save their asses for them, and hopefully they can thank us later.

[Edited to add:] Why is it that there are periods of days, weeks and even months when there is not a "contrail" over any selected area and then all of a sudden there is an onslaught that goes on for extended periods? And it doesn't matter what season it is. Do the laws of physics take vacations?

[Lazlo]

These trails and fake clouds were few and far between 20 years ago. They were not prevalent like they are today. These messages are clearly designed to promote the idea that they are a normal part of the scenery.



Take a look at flight statistics for just one city, like here:
http://www.metwashairports.com/dulles/653.htm

There are at least 150% more flights today, and in many cases more than 200%, than there was 20 years ago. It stands to reason that there would be more contrails today.....Like up to twice as many ;)

I for one agree withy Indigopete and applaud his stance. There is so much junk and bad thinking in the alt community today that I am usually embarrassed to admit that I believe any of this stuff.

If people would take the time to read and ABSORB the science and facts behind many of the claims made, it would help us all.

I can't count the times that I have followed up on something that was posted as PROOF only to have the source material make huge logical and factual mistakes in the first paragraph.

Most people don't want to follow up and be informed, they want to be validated in their beliefs.

About every other time I log onto to Avalon anymore I want to throw my hands up in the air, unsubscribe, and forget I ever heard about this place. That is truly unfortunate when one considers the incredible work done by Bill and Kerry and what the original intent of this forum was.

I stick around, though far less frequently than I used to, because there are still some real gems here, and I feel like every once in a while I post something that actually helps another person.

This rant isn't a dig at any one person or any specific topic. Back on topic,

Of course there are geoengineering experiments being conducted, yes there are documents to this effect, but that doesn't mean that every contrail in the sky is proof of some nefarious plot to destroy humanity. The next time someone points out a picture of crosshatching in the sky, PLEASE do a little research into approved flight paths and busy air traffic corriders. Not only does it all make sense, it is a far more elegant explanation than the alternative.

Even better, spend half as much time here,
http://contrailscience.com/

As you do reading blog posts about how chemtrails are proof of this or that evil plot.

Thanks for listening :cool:

[indigopete]

I do not know where you got the idea that these images are normal clouds

naste.de.lumina - I realise that these images appear strange to many people (probably because they're not used to seeing contrails close up) but they're all normal and what you would expect from a contrail.

Funny how everybody has all of a sudden become an expert in high altitude physics and meteorological observation when a few years ago no one was interested. Some of us have been staring up at the skies for 30 years or more noticing things, then a few of iPhone videos and Youtube Columboes come along and suddenly everyone's spraying chemtrails !

Take, for example, the first of your examples - the so called "tanker" taken with an iPhone out of another plane. For a start, on what basis is the commentator calling it a tanker ? There is an expected condensation trail emanating from 3 engines plus some occasional upper wing vortex condensation. Ever opened a coke bottle and noticed "steam" in the neck of the bottle ? That's because of a sudden reduction in pressure and the in resultant inability of the air to hold as much water vapour. (Like squeezing a sponge). Well imagine how low the pressure needs to be along the upper wing of a 630,000 Lb aeroplane to keep it in the air. With a bit of turbulence, any slight variation in pressure is like opening a million of those coke bottles along the wing surface.

Everything in that video is consistent with a genuine aero-engine condensation trail and not with contaminant spraying. Do you notice how uneven the "spray" is for example. Sometimes it disappears, then it comes on very slightly, then more heavily, then it disappears again. That's exactly how condensation trails behave because they are subject to to variations in the ambient temperature, humidity, aircraft height and configuration.

A spray effulent on the other hand, isn't subject to ANY of these variations. It's only dependent on whether the deploy switch is on or off so it should be either constantly on or constantly off.

Lets take your second example now…the "Spraying Blood" one.

Again, on what basis is the commentator calling the other aircraft USAF ? Do you know yourself or are you just taking his word for it ? Secondly, as above, what exactly is unusual about the oncoming aircraft ? Is it just that you've never seen other air traffic at such close range before or are you just repeating the views of the Youtube poster ?

The reality is that minimum upper airspace vertical traffic separation these days is no more than 1000 feet (it was reduced a few years ago) and what you see in that video is exactly what regular commercial traffic looks like at that distance (in fact those might even be at a 2000 foot separation). There is no "collision course" as claimed. Further, the contrails they are making are regular - they are not "chemtrails". That applies to every single other one of your pictured examples.

Please stop posting this stuff if you've really no idea what you're posting. It's bogus allarmism. It isn't a question of whether contrails persist or not - its a question of whether ice crystals persist at altitude because that's what they are. If you're trying to argue that those criss-cross pattens are not regular contrails then you've got some big explaining to do because contrails are nothing more than regular cloud material (ice crystals) and clouds persist at altitude so contrails should also.

Finally, if you take a look at any upper airspace airways chart, you'll see those criss-cross patterns. On a day with a lot of aircraft and the right conditions at altitude therefore, you can expect to see the sky woven with regular condensation trails from regular commercial traffic.

[indigopete]

That's when I usually tell them to go back to watching American Idol, and that thankfully there are more than a few conscious people who will try to save their asses for them, and hopefully they can thank us later.

Son - the alternative community has it's very own versions of "American Idol" and chemtrail spotting is one of them.

People who spend their time plastering pictures of vapour trails around the net are not woken up - they are just as hypnotised as your popcorn munching couch potato examples. There's no "thinking out of the box", informed challenging, or concerned observation going on there, just blind bogus alarmism, nothing more.

The unfortunate consequence of this is that any genuine instances of atmospheric contamination are probably lost to the world. Camouflaged in a tsunami of iPhone "meteorology" that's turned this agenda into the laughing stock of anyone with the remotest understanding of atmospheric phenomena.

Pete

[RMorgan]

I agree with Pete,

Some things are really detrimental to the alternative community, like the chemtrail subject, which offers little to none supportive evidence. Such issues are deliberately created to distract potentially effective truth-seekers from the real and much more subtle conspiracies and to open space for public ridiculing.

This issue was discussed a zillion time here. It´s beyond clear that all arguments that people use as an attempt to visually differentiate between contrails and chemtrails are completely flawed.

I don´t doubt that chemtrails may exist, but they are not even close to be that much of a common occurrence as people believe they are.

As for the video, I think that the sky choice was made by the art director; He had probably chosen to pick real local sky pictures to compose the video, instead of picking stock sky images from the internet. Wimbledon´s air space is certainly very busy, like any major urban center.

Raf.

[naste.de.lumina]

I do not know where you got the idea that these images are normal clouds

naste.de.lumina - I realise that these images appear strange to many people (probably because they're not used to seeing contrails close up) but they're all normal and what you would expect from a contrail.

Funny how everybody has all of a sudden become an expert in high altitude physics and meteorological observation when a few years ago no one was interested. Some of us have been staring up at the skies for 30 years or more noticing things, then a few of iPhone videos and Youtube Columboes come along and suddenly everyone's spraying chemtrails !

Take, for example, the first of your examples - the so called "tanker" taken with an iPhone out of another plane. For a start, on what basis is the commentator calling it a tanker ? There is an expected condensation trail emanating from 3 engines plus some occasional upper wing vortex condensation. Ever opened a coke bottle and noticed "steam" in the neck of the bottle ? That's because of a sudden reduction in pressure and the in resultant inability of the air to hold as much water vapour. (Like squeezing a sponge). Well imagine how low the pressure needs to be along the upper wing of a 630,000 Lb aeroplane to keep it in the air. With a bit of turbulence, any slight variation in pressure is like opening a million of those coke bottles along the wing surface.

Everything in that video is consistent with a genuine aero-engine condensation trail and not with contaminant spraying. Do you notice how uneven the "spray" is for example. Sometimes it disappears, then it comes on very slightly, then more heavily, then it disappears again. That's exactly how condensation trails behave because they are subject to to variations in the ambient temperature, humidity, aircraft height and configuration.

A spray effulent on the other hand, isn't subject to ANY of these variations. It's only dependent on whether the deploy switch is on or off so it should be either constantly on or constantly off.

Lets take your second example now…the "Spraying Blood" one.

Again, on what basis is the commentator calling the other aircraft USAF ? Do you know yourself or are you just taking his word for it ? Secondly, as above, what exactly is unusual about the oncoming aircraft ? Is it just that you've never seen other air traffic at such close range before or are you just repeating the views of the Youtube poster ?

The reality is that minimum upper airspace vertical traffic separation these days is no more than 1000 feet (it was reduced a few years ago) and what you see in that video is exactly what regular commercial traffic looks like at that distance (in fact those might even be at a 2000 foot separation). There is no "collision course" as claimed. Further, the contrails they are making are regular - they are not "chemtrails". That applies to every single other one of your pictured examples.

Please stop posting this stuff if you've really no idea what you're posting. It's bogus allarmism. It isn't a question of whether contrails persist or not - its a question of whether ice crystals persist at altitude because that's what they are. If you're trying to argue that those criss-cross pattens are not regular contrails then you've got some big explaining to do because contrails are nothing more than regular cloud material (ice crystals) and clouds persist at altitude so contrails should also.

Finally, if you take a look at any upper airspace airways chart, you'll see those criss-cross patterns. On a day with a lot of aircraft and the right conditions at altitude therefore, you can expect to see the sky woven with regular condensation trails from regular commercial traffic.

Dear colleague.
Here is one of many videos you can find on the net, made ​​by cientits, describing some of the problems caused by chemtrails.
These people are not inventing anything and also not kidding.
I do not.

mEfJO0-cTis

Site about evidence chemtrail + Morgellons.

http://imageevent.com/firesat/strangedaysstrangeskies

http://chemtrails.cc/

From what I understand you already took their findings, but frankly unconvincing me.
I'm sorry you do not agree with my posts on this subject, but I will not change my attitude, unless they can convercer unlike me.

[naste.de.lumina]

These trails and fake clouds were few and far between 20 years ago. They were not prevalent like they are today. These messages are clearly designed to promote the idea that they are a normal part of the scenery.



Take a look at flight statistics for just one city, like here:
http://www.metwashairports.com/dulles/653.htm

There are at least 150% more flights today, and in many cases more than 200%, than there was 20 years ago. It stands to reason that there would be more contrails today.....Like up to twice as many ;)

I for one agree withy Indigopete and applaud his stance. There is so much junk and bad thinking in the alt community today that I am usually embarrassed to admit that I believe any of this stuff.

If people would take the time to read and ABSORB the science and facts behind many of the claims made, it would help us all.

I can't count the times that I have followed up on something that was posted as PROOF only to have the source material make huge logical and factual mistakes in the first paragraph.

Most people don't want to follow up and be informed, they want to be validated in their beliefs.

About every other time I log onto to Avalon anymore I want to throw my hands up in the air, unsubscribe, and forget I ever heard about this place. That is truly unfortunate when one considers the incredible work done by Bill and Kerry and what the original intent of this forum was.

I stick around, though far less frequently than I used to, because there are still some real gems here, and I feel like every once in a while I post something that actually helps another person.

This rant isn't a dig at any one person or any specific topic. Back on topic,

Of course there are geoengineering experiments being conducted, yes there are documents to this effect, but that doesn't mean that every contrail in the sky is proof of some nefarious plot to destroy humanity. The next time someone points out a picture of crosshatching in the sky, PLEASE do a little research into approved flight paths and busy air traffic corriders. Not only does it all make sense, it is a far more elegant explanation than the alternative.

Even better, spend half as much time here,
http://contrailscience.com/

As you do reading blog posts about how chemtrails are proof of this or that evil plot.

Thanks for listening :cool:

I did not know this site nor its author.
http://contrailscience.com/
But a quick search found this

http://www.thetruthdenied.com/news/2012/08/06/mick-west-owner-of-contrailscience-lies-once-again-please-be-aware/

[naste.de.lumina]

Perhaps this can be explained as someone flushing the toilet.

mzc60zl70Gk

The fact is you need to escort is a coincidence

pySfDjfEhHI

[RMorgan]

I did not know this site nor its author.
http://contrailscience.com/
But a quick search found this

http://www.thetruthdenied.com/news/2012/08/06/mick-west-owner-of-contrailscience-lies-once-again-please-be-aware/

Hey brother,

I hope you are able to understand that the above posted counter argument is flawed.

Contrails, are condensed water particles, just like clouds. Of course, condensed water particles are aerosols, since an aerosol is a suspension of fine solid particles or liquid droplets.

There are billions of different particles suspended in our atmosphere, but in practical terms, regular clouds and condensation trails (contrails) can be accounted as being made of water.

Anyway, I´ll avoid participating in such discussions from now on...At least I´ll try. Most people simply aren´t interested in discussing such kinds of issues with their minds opened equally for refutation or confirmation of their pre-established beliefs.

As for the above posted first video, you might be interested in reading some of the comments. This practice is very useful to apply before posting misleading youtube videos. I´ll highlight some for you:

"This is an Evergreen 747 air attack wild fire tanker. This is a readily available photo of a test drop of water. If you take the time to search YT you will see videos of actual fire operations with this aircraft. This picture is commonly misrepresented by chemtrail proponents as being a chem tanker, it is not."

"This was a test of the dump system. I was a crewmeber of a fire tanker and we did these all the time dropping water just like this. There are many videos of this same aircraft dropping on fires as well as other large tankers like DC10s. Nothing here, why do you try to pass this off as a chem tanker when it is simple not?"

Just do a search for Evergreen International 747 supertanker or Evergreen supertanker.

Cheers,

Raf.

[naste.de.lumina]

I did not know this site nor its author.
http://contrailscience.com/
But a quick search found this

http://www.thetruthdenied.com/news/2012/08/06/mick-west-owner-of-contrailscience-lies-once-again-please-be-aware/

Hey brother,

I hope you are able to understand that the above posted counter argument is flawed.

Contrails, are condensed water particles, just like clouds. Of course, condensed water particles are aerosols, since an aerosol is a suspension of fine solid particles or liquid droplets.

There are billions of different particles suspended in our atmosphere, but in practical terms, regular clouds and condensation trails (contrails) can be accounted as being made of water.

Anyway, I´ll avoid participating in such discussions from now on...At least I´ll try. Most people simply aren´t interested in discussing such kinds of issues with their minds opened equally for refutation or confirmation of their pre-established beliefs.

Cheers,

Raf.

Raf.
On this website, the author simply negate the fact chemtrails exist.
Although he did not consider expert, he has a huge site that refutes any evidence without proof.
This was an example of discussion, the first I've seen in a long list of people putting their arguments as inaccurate and flawed.

I did not post this topic to discuss the existence or not of chemtrails.
Was to discuss the standardization and techniques used to control the minds of people, especially children. Many of the drawings and toys today make mention of the chemical trails without any need to not be distracted perception.

[Lazlo]

I did not know this site nor its author.
http://contrailscience.com/
But a quick search found this

http://www.thetruthdenied.com/news/2012/08/06/mick-west-owner-of-contrailscience-lies-once-again-please-be-aware/

:doh:

Thank you for making my point. "A quick search..." found something that supported your position. You didn't read through the explanations of how contrails form. Did you actually read and absorb the argument from thetruthdenied? It was parsing of words by someone else with a point to make and not a real disection of the science.

It depends on what the meaning of "IS" is.

[naste.de.lumina]

I did not know this site nor its author.
http://contrailscience.com/
But a quick search found this

http://www.thetruthdenied.com/news/2012/08/06/mick-west-owner-of-contrailscience-lies-once-again-please-be-aware/

:doh:

Thank you for making my point. "A quick search..." found something that supported your position. You didn't read through the explanations of how contrails form. Did you actually read and absorb the argument from thetruthdenied? It was parsing of words by someone else with a point to make and not a real disection of the science.

It depends on what the meaning of "IS" is.

Colleague.
I'm not here to compete with you and no one to find out who has more or better arguments.
I'm here to try to find truths.
I really hope you're right.
Unfortunately I do not believe it. Not because I want that chemtrails exist, but because they are playing it in our face every day.
Because I see them here in my town once a week.
If you satisfied with this explanation of this comrade, despite all the other evidence posted here and across the network, great, sleep peacefully and quietly.

[MorningSong]

Indigopete, I can understand what you are saying from a "mental and logical" point of view. Yet, I, like naste.de.lumina, am not totally convinced that what I see over my head almost daily is "work as usual", nor do I feel that it is "right".

As long as folks are screaming "chemtrails" and the authorities(?) are laughing in their sleeves... maybe we should tackle the discussion from their side.

If "chemtrails" are "just" "contrails".... shouldn't we all take a look at the composition of aviation fuels and all their additives?

Just a few places to start the research:

"Aviation Fuels Technical Review"
https://www.cgabusinessdesk.com/document/aviation_tech_review.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp76-c3.pdf

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp121-c3.pdf

And then we should especially address the pollution (cause of the common decries of the "chemtrailers") that airplanes are pumping into our skies!

Where is all the Aluminum coming from? the Barium? Are other aerosols being expelled like in the reports we hear about in military operations? If they use sprays on peoples in war, would they do it in peace? Didn't the US use it's population as guinea pigs for all kinds of experiments in the past? Has that stopped?

Only by demanding complete transparency, will we ever find out!!!

An EPA report from June 18, 2012 (I have highlighted certain words in bold print):


WASHINGTON— The EPA has announced that it will not take action to control global warming pollution from major mobile sources at this time. The agency’s decision not to regulate ships and other nonroad engines, and its indefinite delay in regulating aircraft, comes in response to a 2010 lawsuit from an environmental coalition asking the EPA to address these types of pollution. The announcement, which presents a major setback to efforts to curb global warming emissions, came despite a recent court ruling that the EPA has a duty to address greenhouse pollution from aircraft.

Together aircraft, ships and nonroad vehicles and engines are responsible for 24 percent of U.S. mobile source greenhouse gas emissions and emit approximately 290,000 tons of soot every year. Pollution from these sources is projected to grow rapidly in the coming decades.

The coalition petitioned the EPA in late 2007 and early 2008 to determine whether greenhouse gas emissions from marine vessels, aircraft and nonroad vehicles and engines respectively endanger public health and welfare and, if so, to issue regulations to control greenhouse gas emissions from these sources. In 2009 the EPA found that greenhouse gas emissions from cars do harm human health, but the agency has yet to take action to control these same emissions from nonroad sources.

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“Now is the time for EPA to turn to these sources of pollution,” said Sarah Burt of Earthjustice, representing the coalition. “EPA has a clear moral obligation and legal duty under the Clean Air Act to act decisively to protect public health and the environment on which all Americans depend.”

“The Clean Air Act successfully reduces dangerous air pollution and saves lives,” said Kassie Siegel, director of the Center for Biological Diversity’s Climate Law Institute. “Cost-effective solutions to reduce greenhouse emissions from ships, airplanes and nonroad engines are available now. The Obama administration’s decision to shelve these common-sense pollution-reduction measures is tragic and absurd.

“The evidence of climate change is becoming clearer each and every day,” said Marcie Keever, regional program director for Friends of the Earth. “We can no longer afford the EPA’s refusal to address important and growing sources of greenhouse gas emissions.”

“EPA needs to shift into high gear and limit the impact that industrial nonroad vehicles and engines impose on our common airshed,” said Dan Galpern, an environmental attorney representing the International Center of Technology Assessment, the Center for Food Safety and Friends of the Earth on the nonroad petition. “The climate crisis will not be allayed without the maximum achievable reduction in GHG emissions. ...” ”

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Aviation and Global Warming
Aircraft emit 11 percent of carbon dioxide emissions from U.S. transportation sources and 3 percent of the United States’ total greenhouse gas emissions. The United States is responsible for nearly half of worldwide CO2 emissions from aircraft, and such emissions from aircraft are anticipated to increase substantially in the coming decades due to the projected growth in air transport. According to the Federal Aviation Administration, emissions from domestic aircraft will increase 60 percent by 2025. While some countries, such as the European Union, have already begun to respond to these challenges, the United States has failed to address this enormous pollution source.......

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2012/global-warming-pollution-06-18-2012.html

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I think so much could be explained if we just take the time to "guide" a person's research and awakening, rather that imposing opinions and technical reasoning... "telling" someone what to post or to stop posting is not the way to get a point across.

Learn to teach, my fellow truthseekers and message bearers, with patience and kindness. Not all of us are at the same level of understanding.

[Prodigal Son]

These trails and fake clouds were few and far between 20 years ago. They were not prevalent like they are today. These messages are clearly designed to promote the idea that they are a normal part of the scenery.



Take a look at flight statistics for just one city, like here:
http://www.metwashairports.com/dulles/653.htm

There are at least 150% more flights today, and in many cases more than 200%, than there was 20 years ago. It stands to reason that there would be more contrails today.....Like up to twice as many ;)

I for one agree withy Indigopete and applaud his stance. There is so much junk and bad thinking in the alt community today that I am usually embarrassed to admit that I believe any of this stuff.

If people would take the time to read and ABSORB the science and facts behind many of the claims made, it would help us all.

I can't count the times that I have followed up on something that was posted as PROOF only to have the source material make huge logical and factual mistakes in the first paragraph.

Most people don't want to follow up and be informed, they want to be validated in their beliefs.

About every other time I log onto to Avalon anymore I want to throw my hands up in the air, unsubscribe, and forget I ever heard about this place. That is truly unfortunate when one considers the incredible work done by Bill and Kerry and what the original intent of this forum was.

I stick around, though far less frequently than I used to, because there are still some real gems here, and I feel like every once in a while I post something that actually helps another person.

This rant isn't a dig at any one person or any specific topic. Back on topic,

Of course there are geoengineering experiments being conducted, yes there are documents to this effect, but that doesn't mean that every contrail in the sky is proof of some nefarious plot to destroy humanity. The next time someone points out a picture of crosshatching in the sky, PLEASE do a little research into approved flight paths and busy air traffic corriders. Not only does it all make sense, it is a far more elegant explanation than the alternative.

Even better, spend half as much time here,
http://contrailscience.com/

As you do reading blog posts about how chemtrails are proof of this or that evil plot.

Thanks for listening :cool:

Please, I grew up in Queens directly under the flight patterns of three of the busiest airports on earth. JFK was as busy then as it is now, two runways going at once during peak hours with planes in holding patterns because of high traffic. There was NEVER a trail that persisted in the sky for more than a few minutes, and they didn't dissipate into fake wispy clouds, they just disappeared like they're supposed to. They're filling the skies with metals to shut off our natural psychic systems. They can't have us waking up and they're spending a lot of money top prevent it. Are some of the claims false? Yes they are, people get carried away sometimes trying to "prove" the chemtrails because there are so many denying that they exist altogether. That doesn't discredit every single claim. If people don't want to see what's right in front of them, why do they spend so much energy trying to convince others that they also don't see what they're seeing right in front of them?

And it is in no way a detraction from the quality of this board to post these things. While you're debunking the existence of buses, we'll get hit by a mack truck.

[indigopete]

I've taken time out from posting to watch Why in the World are They Spraying? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEfJO0-cTis)

[Lazlo]

I did not know this site nor its author.
http://contrailscience.com/
But a quick search found this

http://www.thetruthdenied.com/news/2012/08/06/mick-west-owner-of-contrailscience-lies-once-again-please-be-aware/

:doh:

Thank you for making my point. "A quick search..." found something that supported your position. You didn't read through the explanations of how contrails form. Did you actually read and absorb the argument from thetruthdenied? It was parsing of words by someone else with a point to make and not a real disection of the science.

It depends on what the meaning of "IS" is.

Colleague.
I'm not here to compete with you and no one to find out who has more or better arguments.
I'm here to try to find truths.
I really hope you're right.
Unfortunately I do not believe it. Not because I want that chemtrails exist, but because they are playing it in our face every day.
Because I see them here in my town once a week.
If you satisfied with this explanation of this comrade, despite all the other evidence posted here and across the network, great, sleep peacefully and quietly.

You may have missed my previous statement that I do believe that there is some solid evidence for geoengineering, and to MorningSong's points, absolutely there have been experiments performed on an unknowing public. I used to watch cloud seeding operations firsthand. It has been going on for decades.

My point is that MOST of what is seen and filmed as chemtrails has a very prosaic explanation, and when people post pictures of things like fire fighting tankers making a drop or load levelers in test aircraft and then claim these are proof of chemtrailing, it damages the valid research. It is the story of the boy who cried wolf. When the good evidence is presented, it is immediately dismissed by people who have seen one too many sensationalist posts.

I consider this conversation akin to arguments for proof of UFOs. Yes I believe that they are real, but I also believe that 95%+ is poorly focused footage of very normal things.

Take a look at my signature. I am not here to debunk, my goal is to pull some measure of truth out of the noise. Going back to the OP, I see a commercial. Nothing more, nothing less.

[naste.de.lumina]

You may have missed my previous statement that I do believe that there is some solid evidence for geoengineering, and to MorningSong's points, absolutely there have been experiments performed on an unknowing public. I used to watch cloud seeding operations firsthand. It has been going on for decades.

My point is that MOST of what is seen and filmed as chemtrails has a very prosaic explanation, and when people post pictures of things like fire fighting tankers making a drop or load levelers in test aircraft and then claim these are proof of chemtrailing, it damages the valid research. It is the story of the boy who cried wolf. When the good evidence is presented, it is immediately dismissed by people who have seen one too many sensationalist posts.

I consider this conversation akin to arguments for proof of UFOs. Yes I believe that they are real, but I also believe that 95%+ is poorly focused footage of very normal things.

Take a look at my signature. I am not here to debunk, my goal is to pull some measure of truth out of the noise. Going back to the OP, I see a commercial. Nothing more, nothing less.

OK. Come on. This is a personal opinion.
Why I believe the propaganda of the BBC is a way to influence people not to give importance (accustomed) to see a trail of Chemtrails.

For those who do not know how these subliminal messages, you can read about them on the website below

http://subliminalmanipulation.blogspot.com.br/

Here is a video with several examples of subliminal messages in advertising
about Chemtrails.
Note that the product itself has nothing to do with Chemtrails.

This is an example, go to youtube to find dozens of other videos.

iqUEZmOgKZI

The person who is seeing the announcement is not paying attention to detail, but rather focused on the advertised product itself.

These messages do not go unnoticed by the subconscious.
There is tons of stuff on the internet explaining the various techniques and the development history of subliminal messages.

These techniques are used subliminal messages have a long and various campaign types when the goal is to sell products.

This is the same procedure used for the announcement of the BBC at Wimbledon 2013.
The difference is that this announcement chemtrails are clearly exposed, and that's what I wanted to show when I posted the video.

[MorningSong]

Yes, I agree that in recent films and adverts the "trails" are more frequently present.... and yes, I think it may be a tactic, if you will, to make things more "real", more "normal" as compared to our actual reality. If you saw a completely clear blue sky in a film or a photo, your subconscious could pick up on it and the next time you look up at the real sky, you'd say "wow".....

Here is a frame from "Fievel Goes West", a cartoon for children out in 1991:

http://www.sciechimiche.org/scie_chimiche/images/stories/Disinformazione/cartoon01.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f6/American_tail_fievel_goes_west.jpg

From a historic perspective, chem/con trails didn't even exist (no airplanes) at the time (1888)..... duh!