Best shot: move to Bhutan or Ecuador

[jiminii]

they are both remote and high places ... just wondering which will give me the greatest enlightenment ...

any ideas

jim

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Bhutan, for sure. The last paradise on Earth!

But immigration there (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Bhutan) is very difficult. Tourists must spend (http://www.tourism.gov.bt/plan/minimum-daily-package) $200-250 a day when they're in the country and if they can't produce receipts, have to pay up the calculated amount at the airport upon departure.

That was a very clever way (proposed to the King several years ago by the Senior Lamas, who advise him) to limit the impact of foreign visitors while at the same time bringing in valuable foreign exchange.

Ecuador is a different story. It's far from the kind of idyllic spiritual Kingdom that Bhutan is, but still offers a great deal to 'westerners' (northerners!). See these threads more details:

Where's Bill Ryan? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?58636-Where-s-Bill-Ryan)

What if time is on our side? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?61237-What-if-time-is-on-our-side)

[RMorgan]

Hey Jim,

Well, in my opinion, you can find amazing places to live practically on every country in the world.

As Bill said, moving to Buthan is not easy. I´m not sure how the immigration process works up there, but I heard it´s very difficult indeed. They are not selling their land to gringos like they do in South America.

Also, Buthan is very isolated from the rest of the world. If you´re used to modern life´s comforts and benefits, then you might have a hard time there.

Personally I would move to a nice countryside place that´s close enough to a major urban center, so it gets easy to enjoy the benefits of modern society whenever they´re needed...In fact, this is exactly what I´ll be doing just a couple of weeks from now.

About enlightenment, well, I guess it´s much more of an internal thing. Wherever you decide to move, you would still have to deal with yourself and the several personal challenges necessary to achieve it.

Independently of where you decide to move, you, in relation to yourself, are always in the same place.

Raf.

[donk]

I have to say: Ecuador is birthplace of the sexiest women I know ;)

[Watching from Cyprus]

Sorry Bill, but it seems that you are a bit disappointed with Ecuador, and as Bhutan is requiring a spending limits per day, this has nothing to do with spirituality.
My plan is Bolivia if one day in reach for me and my family. Every country on the planet is controlled, with no exception. Certain places within certain countries are maybe less controlled, but the more people who goes there, the less peace there will be if they bring their electronic equipment... Summarizing the whole thing. The majority of humans on this planet are completely controlled by the energy of money, and that is what we have to rid ourselves of to get to the next stage. Anywhere it requires money to survive is an elite controlled community since banks are around. Humanity in general are lost already and stop dreaming about the contrary. Just look around you and tell me what you see! The jungle is dangerous but might be a safe place and so might it be along mountain lakes where there are no electronic communication systems.
I don't love you all, only the ones who deserve it :-)
Peter

[TargeT]

I'm pretty happy in the Virgin Islands, but I think its less about where you are; if indeed enlightenment is what you seek.

[Fred Steeves]

About enlightenment, well, I guess it´s much more of an internal thing. Wherever you decide to move, you would still have to deal with yourself and the several personal challenges necessary to achieve it.

Independently of where you decide to move, you, in relation to yourself, are always in the same place.

Raf.

Good post Raf. That last part reminded me of the old 60's saying: "No matter where you go, there you are."

[Camilo]

I would say Ecuador is a fairly nice place to live. Spirituality and enlightenment are in you and will blossom at the right time where ever you happen to be.

[Camilo]

Sorry Bill, but it seems that you are a bit disappointed with Ecuador, and as Bhutan is requiring a spending limits per day, this has nothing to do with spirituality.
My plan is Bolivia if one day in reach for me and my family. Every country on the planet is controlled, with no exception. Certain places within certain countries are maybe less controlled, but the more people who goes there, the less peace there will be if they bring their electronic equipment... Summarizing the whole thing. The majority of humans on this planet are completely controlled by the energy of money, and that is what we have to rid ourselves of to get to the next stage. Anywhere it requires money to survive is an elite controlled community since banks are around. Humanity in general are lost already and stop dreaming about the contrary. Just look around you and tell me what you see! The jungle is dangerous but might be a safe place and so might it be along mountain lakes where there are no electronic communication systems.
I don't love you all, only the ones who deserve it :-)
Peter

Do some research about Bolivia, as "westerners (northerners!)" are not welcome there, even more after the recent incident with the presidential plane in Europe, which created a lot of resentment in all of South America.

[Bill Ryan]

it seems that you are a bit disappointed with Ecuador

Not disappointed at all! :) Click here:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?58636-Where-s-Bill-Ryan&p=667705&viewfull=1#post667705

--->




Is Bill OK??

He's fine. :)

Not too far away from this very beautiful place (but several thousand feet lower) -- in Ecuador. Watching world events closely, and getting prepared.

http://projectavalon.net/Ecuador_Andes_Panorama.jpg


But you're right about the incursion of 'western' values and commercial intrusion into almost every developing country. As I shared in this thread here, this is almost unavoidable anywhere.

---> What if time is on our side? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?61237-What-if-time-is-on-our-side&p=703286&viewfull=1#post703286)

Where to live in the world is to a certain degree a 'least worst' judgment. There are quite a few South American countries which are viable contenders. There's lots of room for everyone... in the event (as is possible) that tens of thousands of Americans, and maybe Canadians and Europeans too, decide to relocate if things really start getting rough.

[Observer1964]

I dont think moving anywhere makes a difference, and probably youre even off worse wtshtf.
You will be that rich outsider that nobody thinks twice of robbing when the law is gone and hunger is there.
And then what...

My country will also be no good, but at least I am not an outsider and I speak the same language.

And if fortune selects me to survive I will be in the right place wtshtf, if not, than what does it matter where my dead body comes to rest... I wont be in it anymore.

[ulli]

they are both remote and high places ... just wondering which will give me the greatest enlightenment ...

any ideas

jim

If you are looking for enlightenment it might never happen.
It appears with a feeling of freedom which comes the moment one jumps over one's own shadow...
and that can be anywhere.

But why are you asking, Jim?
I thought you were already pretty much an enlightened guy....

[CD7]

WHaT!!! MR Consciousness himself is asking for a physical place for enlightenment?! HAhahahahhahahaaaaaaa!

Don't get your panties in a bunch--you made me laugh :)

[ulli]

About enlightenment, well, I guess it´s much more of an internal thing. Wherever you decide to move, you would still have to deal with yourself and the several personal challenges necessary to achieve it.

Independently of where you decide to move, you, in relation to yourself, are always in the same place.

Raf.

Good post Raf. That last part reminded me of the old 60's saying: "No matter where you go, there you are."

So true. And you always take your mind with you, wherever you go.
Enlightenment is when one can put the mind into overdrive until it explodes...
then what's left is pure consciousness in free flight.

[skippy]

But why Ecuador? As Raf said there are so many other places to go. Why this focus on Ecuador?

[Limor Wolf]

they are both remote and high places ... just wondering which will give me the greatest enlightenment ...

any ideas

jim


If you are looking for enlightenment it might never happen.
It appears with a feeling of freedom which comes the moment one jumps over one's own shadow...
and that can be anywhere.

But why are you asking, Jim?
I thought you were already pretty much an enlightened guy....

Maybe the word jim meant is really enjoyment, since as much as enlightenment knocks on our (inner) doors, we also would like a supportive place on the outside.
Environment provides as much frequencies (food for the enlightened soul) as our own inner creations of thoughts and perceptions, and if and when it is complementing our inner environments then it's a win hands down

[GoodETxSG]

Ecuador cannot be too bad if so many who are retiring, leaving the crumbling USA for various reasons (Including members of the CABAL buying up Hectares of land).

In my experience politics and regimes change so often in Central American Countries that long term stability and concept of "Ownership" of property (Land/Homestead) would be an issue. But honestly I haven't put in the research like Bill has so I cannot put out a fully educated up or down statement.

It is a gamble at this point to stay in the US even if you buy land, do all the prepping to hold out for the house of cards to fall or to move to a foreign land, out of your element and away from "Home Field Advantage" if there is such a thing anymore.

I guess your individual economic, age, family situation really dictates how you need to plan out your safe place to wait out the crash of the western cabal and the aftershock... and then the time it takes to get commerce moving again under a new economic system. It is a big decision and it is good that people are thinking and planning NOW.
IMHO...

[CD7]

I say you move to florida right dab next to the ocean---I mean a stone throw away...COME ON LIVE ALITTLE!!!

And by the way if I stop posting for a realllllllyyyy long time, I may be underwater :)

[RMorgan]

But why Ecuador? As Raf said there are so many other places to go. Why this focus on Ecuador?

Well, this is a good question indeed.

Gringos are always looking for the most beautiful and most inexpensive places to live.

This migration movement is basically of predatory nature. Gringos who decide to move to South America do it for selfish reasons most of the times, taking advantage of their stronger currency´s buying power and of the naivety of the locals.

They don´t move here to actually contribute with the local community´s welfare...They move here to enjoy a perpetual vacation, not to work hard to improve the local quality of life. Most of the times they don´t even mix with the locals, creating their own communities which are nothing more than an extension of their own countries with cheaper labor and living costs...Sometimes they live in a place for more than a decade and don´t even make efforts to learn the language.

Anyway, when such migratory trends are established, it leads to the local increase of real state price and consequently the inflation of the local economy...So, when a place is already saturated with gringos, things start to get really expensive and then they find somewhere else to move...This already happened everywhere in South America and now I guess it´s Ecuador´s time to experience it.

The problem is that most of the times these immigrants behave like locusts...They are often disguised as new age peaceful types, but most of them are nothing more than selfish vampires who do everything in their power to suck the local community´s blood until the last drop.

Unfortunately, the local community always end up paying the price...That´s why gringos are not really welcomed in a lot of places here in South America anymore.

So, answering your question, Ecuador is a beautiful country with welcoming immigration laws, it´s still a relatively inexpensive place to live and to buy property and the locals are still relatively naive and easily seduced by dollars.

Raf.

[Limor Wolf]

I say you move to florida right dab next to the ocean---I mean a stone throw away...COME ON LIVE ALITTLE!!!

And by the way if I stop posting for a realllllllyyyy long time, I may be underwater :)

To live ALITTLE or to live longer, now that's the question.
To be or not to be.. blah blah :)

[kanishk]

Even if you earn money from Bhutan, you have to pay huge tax for shifting that money to your country. Recently some town planners done some project their, but ultimately earned nothing. They were not aware about this taxation before taking the project.

[Revere]

"LIVE" Where you are!!!

Peace,
-R-

[andrewgreen]

Different people find enlightenment in different places. Going with the theme of the book 'The Alchemist' you need to follow your heart. Probably the best advise out there but also the most difficult to follow :)

[Delight]

they are both remote and high places ... just wondering which will give me the greatest enlightenment ...

any ideas

jim

I didn't read any more after this but it made me think.
There is an interview between Paul Levy and Neil Kramer that I really like. It addresses evolution in action: the aspect of our responsibility of being artists and dreamers NOW.

When we wherever WHEREVER wherever we are take responsibility for our ownership of us as genii of our life creation, all the people like us just appear or we move somewhere that holds a powerful draw and all the people like us appear..

The discussion starts around 48:48
hcg33uPQVa8

Lucky me to have the internet to hear these gentlemen whom i enjoy.

There is a necessary patience according to Bashar between the moment we change and the evidence.
He calls it "the echo".
Looking to a geography to supply desired values is like the Nasruddin tail where he is running around really fast on his donkey looking for his donkey.
if you are a traveler, I say go all around the world, don't stop once.
if you are a home body, be your own home now?

This is if I asked you what I would want you to say to me....Love where you are and where you are is loving.
I believe that where love is, enlightenment hangs out.

[BrianEn]

Right now I'm in an ideal place to live. This basement offers me the salvation from the heat of summer and the coldness of the winter.

[Bubu]

But why Ecuador? As Raf said there are so many other places to go. Why this focus on Ecuador?

Well, this is a good question indeed.

Gringos are always looking for the most beautiful and most inexpensive places to live.

This migration movement is basically of predatory nature. Gringos who decide to move to South America do it for selfish reasons most of the times, taking advantage of their stronger currency´s buying power and of the naivety of the locals.

They don´t move here to actually contribute with the local community´s welfare...They move here to enjoy a perpetual vacation, not to work hard to improve the local quality of life. Most of the times they don´t even mix with the locals, creating their own communities which are nothing more than an extension of their own countries with cheaper labor and living costs...Sometimes they live in a place for more than a decade and don´t even make efforts to learn the language.

Anyway, when such migratory trends are established, it leads to the local increase of real state price and consequently the inflation of the local economy...So, when a place is already saturated with gringos, things start to get really expensive and then they find somewhere else to move...This already happened everywhere in South America and now I guess it´s Ecuador´s time to experience it.

The problem is that most of the times these immigrants behave like locusts...They are often disguised as new age peaceful types, but most of them are nothing more than selfish vampires who do everything in their power to suck the local community´s blood until the last drop.

Unfortunately, the local community always end up paying the price...That´s why gringos are not really welcomed in a lot of places here in South America anymore.

So, answering your question, Ecuador is a beautiful country with welcoming immigration laws, it´s still a relatively inexpensive place to live and to buy property and the locals are still relatively naive and easily seduced by dollars.

Raf.

Being in the third world country these are my observation. You're correct about the vacation intention but generally they don't cost much trouble and don't intentionally behave like vampires except for a few as****. Most of them are peace loving gringos that's why they choose more remote countries far from too much technological evolution and infrastructure. But if we look at the big picture anyone who uses money to get what he want's and does not even make an effort to make a little garden or do other things that produce something that's of real value then that's the real vampire.

So yes most of these gringos who move to places like ours are vampires. Although most people will treat them with too much hospitality as most people, everywhere, are victimize by the love of money.

[CD7]

I say you move to florida right dab next to the ocean---I mean a stone throw away...COME ON LIVE ALITTLE!!!

And by the way if I stop posting for a realllllllyyyy long time, I may be underwater :)

To live ALITTLE or to live longer, now that's the question.
To be or not to be.. blah blah :)


OK, Live a little for an extended period of time! hehe And its To Believe or not to Believe, that is the question----they left Eve out, those slimey bustards :p

[ghostrider]

we need our own small island in Hawaii , and make it a spiritual paradise , respecting nature, no ego or greed or war allowed ...far away from the madness of the matrix ... just like castway , when do we leave ??? Is anyone rich enough to buy an island ??? if I hit the lottery , it's a done deal , your all invited to help create our own little country , we can call it Atlantis Island ...the main rule would be limit your actions as not to cause harm to the Island or others on the Island ...

[Maunagarjana]

In my experience, living in paradise is not the place to go to seek enlightenment. It's too damn easy. Not enough challenge. It may actually lull you into complacency or cause you to be consumed by pleasant distractions. That's not so bad, but you will never know where you are at with your progress towards self realization until you are put into situations that have the potential to bring out the best or worst in you. One does not delight themselves into enlightenment. I'm not saying people should seek out difficulty and misfortune. I'm not saying move into gang territory or the most backwards rural area to be a masochist. Just try to work with what is right in front of you, wherever you may be.

I guess the most succinct way to put it is this: The true guru is everywhere. If you are paying attention and being receptive to what life is trying to show you, any place will do. Going to a beautiful and exotic location may be enjoyable, exciting and even inspiring, but if you are on the path towards enlightenment, being in an ideal place isn't necessary. This could actually be the reason why beings willingly incarnate on Earth, even knowing full well how thoroughly messed up things are here.

[mosquito]

But why Ecuador? As Raf said there are so many other places to go. Why this focus on Ecuador?

Well, this is a good question indeed.

Gringos are always looking for the most beautiful and most inexpensive places to live.

This migration movement is basically of predatory nature. Gringos who decide to move to South America do it for selfish reasons most of the times, taking advantage of their stronger currency´s buying power and of the naivety of the locals.

They don´t move here to actually contribute with the local community´s welfare...They move here to enjoy a perpetual vacation, not to work hard to improve the local quality of life. Most of the times they don´t even mix with the locals, creating their own communities which are nothing more than an extension of their own countries with cheaper labor and living costs...Sometimes they live in a place for more than a decade and don´t even make efforts to learn the language.

Anyway, when such migratory trends are established, it leads to the local increase of real state price and consequently the inflation of the local economy...So, when a place is already saturated with gringos, things start to get really expensive and then they find somewhere else to move...This already happened everywhere in South America and now I guess it´s Ecuador´s time to experience it.

The problem is that most of the times these immigrants behave like locusts...They are often disguised as new age peaceful types, but most of them are nothing more than selfish vampires who do everything in their power to suck the local community´s blood until the last drop.

Unfortunately, the local community always end up paying the price...That´s why gringos are not really welcomed in a lot of places here in South America anymore.

So, answering your question, Ecuador is a beautiful country with welcoming immigration laws, it´s still a relatively inexpensive place to live and to buy property and the locals are still relatively naive and easily seduced by dollars.

Raf.

Exactly !!

In 2006 I went to live in Peru. By the time I'd moved there, the Gringos had already started the process of installing property-porice inflation, and it was getting worse by the day. The only people I know who have succedded there are the ones with money from outside the country, be it a pension, house rental, whatever. I genuinely wanted to go there and contribute to the community, but without outside income, found it incredibly difficult to make ends meet. It was paradise for me for a while, but it quickly became hell and was at one point a bit like experiencing a homoeopathic aggravatiuon on a major life scale !!!. And that was the lesson for me - you cannot manifest 1 pole on its' own, if you want paradise, expect hell at the same time.

I suspect Bill isn't telling us the full story: I'm sure he either has to make visa trips (i.e. leave the country) every 3 months, or else pay to have his visa extended which, in the case of Peru was $20 per month. That may sound like very little, but when your income is between $100 and $150 per month (if you're lucky), it's a stretch.

How funny it is to see someone who claims to be an intergalactic demi-god come superhero, visiting us from the future in order to save us, all of a sudden seeking somewhere to find enlightenment !!!! As many have said - enlightenment is within you, wherever you are. Look for it right alongside (or even inside) the darkness.

[jiminii]

the truth is when they located one of my bodies that is a commander in this solar system ... that has something to do with a decree that was issued that made this sector free zone ... meaning no outside influence or takeover from aliens will be allowed ... that I got a definite visual from the auditing what this ship looks like ... and I am very familiar with the entity ... my other friend cathy who also has a body on base 2 .. (I have a body on base 2 besides the one in this sector) and I got a very definite clear perception ... (don't know if you would call that telepathy) .. that they would come and get us if we wanted but we have to be in a remote place ... so ... I am in a remote place ... with a lot of mountains around here ... but I don't know if it is remote enough ...

so I thought in Bhutan free of all this THINK .. from the local population ... I could get in a direct clean communication and they will come down ...

but I also thought Ecuador ..with Bill who is also a very high level ... he has more training than me ... and we could make sure we are in comm with the right entities ...

it is just a thought ... I know I have protection from the future ... you would be surprised at how much happens when I am endangered ...

jim

[jiminii]

-------

Bhutan, for sure. The last paradise on Earth!

But immigration there (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Bhutan) is very difficult. Tourists must spend (http://www.tourism.gov.bt/plan/minimum-daily-package) $200-250 a day when they're in the country and if they can't produce receipts, have to pay up the calculated amount at the airport upon departure.

That was a very clever way (proposed to the King several years ago by the Senior Lamas, who advise him) to limit the impact of foreign visitors while at the same time bringing in valuable foreign exchange.

Ecuador is a different story. It's far from the kind of idyllic spiritual Kingdom that Bhutan is, but still offers a great deal to 'westerners' (northerners!). See these threads more details:

Where's Bill Ryan? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?58636-Where-s-Bill-Ryan)

What if time is on our side? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?61237-What-if-time-is-on-our-side)

it looks like best shot is Ecuador ... even though I can bring a girl from bhutan down here and marry her ... still wouldn't know if that would free me in Bhutan ... but .... I think I will have better communication lines in Ecuador ... and can maybe do a lot of good there

jim

[Bill Ryan]

I suspect Bill isn't telling us the full story: I'm sure he either has to make visa trips (i.e. leave the country) every 3 months, or else pay to have his visa extended which, in the case of Peru was $20 per month. That may sound like very little, but when your income is between $100 and $150 per month (if you're lucky), it's a stretch.



No, nothing is withheld!

I'm a formal resident, and have been for over a year. Extending one's tourist visa time and again isn't possible here, though there are creative (and illegal) 'workarounds' which some people use to beat the system. If they're busted, though, they're out.



it looks like best shot is Ecuador ... even though I can bring a girl from bhutan down here and marry her

Marry the girl from Bhutan. Then come to Ecuador, and you can both have dual citizenship.

:)

[jiminii]

I suspect Bill isn't telling us the full story: I'm sure he either has to make visa trips (i.e. leave the country) every 3 months, or else pay to have his visa extended which, in the case of Peru was $20 per month. That may sound like very little, but when your income is between $100 and $150 per month (if you're lucky), it's a stretch.



No, nothing is withheld!

I'm a formal resident, and have been for over a year. Extending one's tourist visa time and again isn't possible here, though there are creative (and illegal) 'workarounds' which some people use to beat the system. If they're busted, though, they're out.



it looks like best shot is Ecuador ... even though I can bring a girl from bhutan down here and marry her

Marry the girl from Bhutan. Then come to Ecuador, and you can both have dual citizenship.

:)

we would have dual citizenship with what countries?

USA Bhutan Ecuador?

jim

[mosquito]

... even though I can bring a girl from bhutan down here and marry her ... still wouldn't know if that would free me in Bhutan ...

Well, from what I can determine - it is actually legal for a foreigner to marry a Bhutanese (unlike Laos and (unless you are under 50, earning $2,500 per month) Cambodia), but I doubt it's as easy as riding a bike. There will be civil and religious laws that you need to observe, including becoming a Bhuddist. There's also the point that a lot of gringos fail to take in to account ....... can you find someone who wants to marry YOU for who you are ?

¤=[Post Update]=¤





No, nothing is withheld!

I'm a formal resident, and have been for over a year.

Thanks for the clarification.

May I ask how one accomplishes that ? Most countries these days will only allow you to become immigrants if you "invest" a certain amount of money. Or have you bought citizenship ? Last I heard it was $25,000

[ks4ever]

North East Victoria, Australia is pretty good. It is the most reliable rainfall area on the east side of the continent, just need to prepare for bushfires in the summer. Meet one of my neighbours, a Fairytail glider some three and a half inches long from tip of nose to end of tail. Don't be fooled by its size it is extremely athletic and can jump up to six feet in the air.

Love and best wishes

ks4ever

[Anchor]

they are both remote and high places ... just wondering which will give me the greatest enlightenment ...

You don't need to go anywhere for enlightenment; but if you do, either will be just fine.

[Tony]

Bhutan's reason to be is enlightenment.
Ecuador is a country on the equator.


Where you are is where your karma
has brought you, and that is where you
uncover your self.

You can take your fear to Bhutan
or Ecuador, and still have your fear.

Your essence is where you are.
It's never over there......