View Full Version : It looks like WINGMAKERS and UFO HIGHWAY interviews are talking about the same place.
charlesgilbertwright
18th July 2013, 14:36
Dear fellow researchers,
Using google earth and looking 80 miles northeast of Chaco Canyon, Rio Arriba shows up on the map.
It looks like WINGMAKERS and UFO HIGHWAY interviews are talking about the same place.
1-In the interview with the UFO HIGHWAY retired USAF Col, Rio Arriba is used in the official secret name attributed to the underground facility at Dulce.
WINGMAKERS---INTERVIEW ONE PAGE 7 with Dr. Anderson/Neruda/[James aka Mahunahi]:
“Initially, we didn’t know what the connection was between the Ancient Arrow project and the BST Imperative. You have to understand that the time capsule was a collection of twenty-three chambers literally carved inside of a canyon wall in the middle of nowhere about eighty miles northeast of Chaco Canyon in New Mexico. It is, without a doubt, the most amazing archeological find of all time. If scientists were allowed to examine this site, with all of its artifacts intact, they would be in awe of this incredible find.”
UFO HIGHWAY---PAGE 20-21:
“Welcome to the [14] Rio Arriba Scientific &
Technological Underground Auxiliary”.
[14] Rio Arriba Scientific & Technological Underground Auxiliary; alleged name of Deep Underground Complex located
beneath the Archuleta Mesa in Dulce, NM. Purported to be Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) associated
scientific auxiliary facility; LANL designation: TA-D1; Other designations: RIO-AUX / RIO ARRIBA CO, DSD-3 / Dulce
Facility.
Really, is that the official name of Dulce?
That’s right. The public does not know this, but the Dulce facility’s official U.S.
Government designation is: “Rio Arriba Scientific & Technological Underground
Auxiliary”. I do not think it has ever been made public before now. In fact, I’ve never
seen it on the internet, ever. But that is the official government designation. However,
more often than not, those who work there simply call the facility either “Rio Arriba” or
“Dulce Facility”.
2-Both places have Sumerian writings.
WINGMAKERS---INTERVIEW ONE PAGE 5 with Dr. Anderson/Neruda:
“There are also those individuals who have, in our opinion, come into contact with the WingMakers and are provided messages about the future, which they had recorded in symbol pictures or extinct languages like Sumerian, Mayan, and Chakobsan.”
UFO HIGHWAY---PAGE 50-51:
“The newly arrived officer’s team of scientific experts noted that the writing found on the
tablets resembled cuneiform script from ancient [65]
Mesopotamia, particularly [66]
Akkadian cuneiform. However these figures seemed to be much more compact in
design and contained many differences not found in the known cuneiform.”
[65]
Mesopotamia is a toponym for the area of the Tigris-Euphrates river system, largely corresponding to modernday
Iraq, as well as some parts of northeastern Syria, southeastern Turkey, and southwestern Iran. Widely considered
to be the cradle of civilization, Bronze Age Mesopotamia included Sumer and the Akkadian, Babylonian and Assyrian
empires. In the Iron Age, it was ruled by the Neo-Assyrian and Neo-Babylonian empires. The indigenous Sumerians
and Akkadians (including Assyrians & Babylonians) dominated Mesopotamia from the beginning of written history (c.
3100 BC) to the fall of Babylon in 539 BC, when it was conquered by the Achaemenid Empire. It fell to Alexander the
Great in 332 BC and after his death it became part of the Greek Seleucid Empire.
[66]
Akkadian cuneiform - the archaic cuneiform script was adopted by the Akkadians from ca. 2500 BC, and by 2000
BC had evolved into Old Assyrian cuneiform, with many modifications to Sumerian orthography. The Semitic
equivalents for many signs became distorted or abbreviated to form new "phonetic" values, because the syllabic
nature of the script as refined by the Sumerians was unintuitive to Semitic speakers.
[67]
The Ugaritic script is a cuneiform (wedge-shaped) abjad used from around 1400 BCE for Ugaritic, an extinct
Northwest Semitic language, and discovered in Ugarit (modern Ras Shamra), Syria, in 1928. It has 31 letters. Other
languages were occasionally written in the Ugaritic script in the area around Ugarit. Clay tablets written in Ugaritic
provide the earliest evidence of both the West and South Semitic orders of the alphabet, which gave rise to the
alphabetic orders of the Hebrew, Greek, and Latin alphabets on the one hand, and of the Ge'ez alphabet on the other.
---------------------------------------------
http://www.projectcamelot.org/james_wingmakers.html
http://www.ufohighway.com/
http://www.wingmakers.com/neruda1.html
http://wespenre.com/new-revelations-on-wingmakers.htm
http://www.wanttoknow.info/wingmakers
Cheers,
Charles Gilbert Wright
Wow Charles, you did the data correlating yourself? I'm impressed. :)
I must confess, you're style and presentation are sorely missed around here.
Very few members take the time to digest information well enough to present material that corroberates other material.
I for one thank you and I will be looking for more of your material.
Lefty Dave
18th July 2013, 15:07
Thanks, Charles...good job. The WingMaker Saga was the beginning of my 'mental upgrade' back in 2000, and it changed my life forever...sad that it was compromised. Hope to 'hear' more from you and wish you the best.
charlesgilbertwright
18th July 2013, 15:21
Thanks, Charles...good job. The WingMaker Saga was the beginning of my 'mental upgrade' back in 2000, and it changed my life forever...sad that it was compromised. Hope to 'hear' more from you and wish you the best.
how was it compromised?
I find a lot of correlative data for the Anthony Sanchez story about Col X's base of ancient greys who have ancient occupation of the base under Dulce New Mexico.
I think one of the juiciest corroborating factors is the story by Jim Sparks. Sparks in his book "the keepers" gives one of the best and most detailed abduction stories I have ever heard. He mentions at some point a alphabet he is forced to learn, and I'm wondering right now if that alphabet has any Summerian similiarities.
The most important piece for me that Sparks gave, was his story about being abducted by the greys, and waking up in an underground joint USA millitary and alien grey base.
The interaction was very much in line with Sanchez's description of the USA and grey cohabitation at DULCE.
I personally think there are quite a few corroborating features with Sanchez's proginator race being from Sirius.
Billy Meier states that the so called Men In Black are originally from Sirius. But he says little else regarding them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DK6PDLVzGc
charlesgilbertwright
18th July 2013, 15:41
I am beginning my detailed study of the WINGMAKERS material, and as I see more info that relates to the UFO HIGHWAY interview it will be posted. I read the UFO HIGHWAY book a week ago.
One of the things I found that correlates with the wingmakers idea of souls that wish to step out of the natural order set by God and reside in bodies of robotic manufacture was the ALIEN INTERVIEW by Matilda MacElroy.
In the WingMakers (http://www.wingmakers.com/arrow/acio/Sauthers.html) information, we find talk of a race of biological robots from another galaxy, these robots do indeed have souls. And they find life such as ours invaluable for our genetic, or DNA input that they may or may not incorporate into their own.
John Lear is the prominant source for information as far as I am concerned and he thinks highly enough of Matilda O'Donnell MacElroy - Alien Interview (http://www.thenewearth.org/Roswell.pdf)that it is kept PDF for free on his website.
In "Alien Interview"
We have a nurse who claims she was present at one of the flying saucer crash retrievals. She mentions that the alien telepathically contacted her, and that try as some of the other millitary men did do communicate with it, all was to no avail, it only communicated with MacElroy.
The "being", explained to her, that it was a biological robot, that it needed to be so because sending resource needy life forms like ourselves would be near impossible when it came to space travel over vast distances requiring long periods of time being spent in the ship.
The being also explained,,,that it had a soul,,,and that it had full memory of it's past lives. The being explained that it was part of a civilization that "created" bodies and the "soul" had the ability to download into them as "she" had done.
The biological robot was female.
Life times had different meanings for these robots with souls, because they could create a new body as they needed one, and they had full memory of their past lives.
The biological robot when on to explain a creation mythos on earth that was very much in line with the thinking in Robert Morning Sky's Terra Papers (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/08PDF_Files/The_Terra_Papers_Parts_1_and_2.pdf), and Zacharia Sitchin's works.
In the Alien Interview it was said that there was a vast Empire in our galaxy, and that earth was populated by the unwanted souls of this Empire, and the souls were kept incarnating here by means of a technological prison loop.
You see, the Empire didn't want the souls in the Empire anymore for various reasons not limited to but including, rebeliousness, innovative thinking, criminal behavior, deviant behavior, autonomy and tax evasion.
The alien explained to MacElroy that not only did this contraption work on the souls of all humans,,,,,,but,,,any way faring space travelers who might be passing through this area of space would be trapped here by the technological contraption as well.
I find that last part very interesting, because I'm always looking for strange data to corrolate and ping.
And this is some strange ping data indeed.
While I was trying to absorb the Billy Meier material from a set of audio tapes by Randolph Winters, I came across a small piece of information that caused my ears to perk. Meier was reported as asking, "can you be born on other planets"? To which it was replied to him "No, you can not be born on another planet, unless you travel there by body and then die".
Lefty Dave
18th July 2013, 15:48
Thanks, Charles...good job. The WingMaker Saga was the beginning of my 'mental upgrade' back in 2000, and it changed my life forever...sad that it was compromised. Hope to 'hear' more from you and wish you the best.
how was it compromised?
I M O....
The site was pretty much 'frozen' after the introduction of James...no new content added...as promised...and we were redirected to Lyricus and Event Temples...it's just my observation...blessings.
http://wespenre.com/new-revelations-on-wingmakers.htm
Ba-ba-Ra
18th July 2013, 16:45
charles, If you haven't already read it, I recommend the written interview on Project Camelot with James of Wingmakers:
Here is an excerpt:
The ominous situations of our world are very real. It is impossible to look at the policies of governments around the world and see coherence, benevolence, enlightened action, or, in general, behavioral intelligence as an outflow of equality and oneness.
The human family has been bound up over thousands of generations and each time returning to our home planet Earth for the sake of upgrading the previous generation’s dominion, creature comforts, lifestyle, and technology, while the emotional maturity remains burrowed in the substrate of rape, abuse, enslavement, war, dishonesty, greed, government fraud, and a hundred other vices of weak and disillusioned humans programmed to see only the out-picturing of the human mind and its systems of limitation.
The human family is building a pyramid of manifested life across thousands of generations and each new generation builds another layer – an upgrade of technology and lifestyle. We are nearing the apex of this pyramid where there is nothing left to add. The pyramid is completed and we – each of us – must look at the pyramid we have constructed and ask ourselves how it exemplifies our transcendence, our true Self.
The pyramid of humanity is manifest in the three-dimensional world, but it derives from a set of constructs that are flawed. What are these constructs? What makes them flawed? How did humanity get off course to build structures of civilization and society that are such poor reflections of who we really are?
There is a specific framework that has emerged over millions of years to induce humanity to the repetitive post of deficient civilization-builders. In the context of your questions, I must begin by defining this framework in order to answer all of your questions with sufficient detail and bring some new texture and dimension to the conversation. This framework is known within Lyricus as the Suppression of the Sovereign Integral. Its nine primary components are delineated below.
Before you, the reader, continue on, let me warn you that this is a sobering and direct analysis of the suppression framework and I would advise everyone who reads this to remain neutral as they examine my answers. If you find the information feeling too “heavy” or evoking fear, set it aside or return to it later. This story is not for everyone. Some will feel threatened by it and react with a sense of alarm, and others will feel like someone pulled the rug from underneath them. If you feel any of this, you may not be prepared to confront these realities.
You can read the rest here: http://projectcamelot.org/james_wingmakers_sovereign_integral.html
I spent some time in Chaco Canyon 2 years ago. Very interesting place. I was with my brother, who is a scientest and non-believer. Even he was aware of the unusual energies there. We were on are way to Taos and he only agreed to spend an hour there. We ended up spending the entire afternoon and never saw another human once we entered the Canyon, which even made it more magical. As for Billy Meier, I came upon his story in the mid-seventies in a very strange way. Definitely spoke to me. You might also enjoy reading "The P'taah Tapes", by Jani King and "Starseed Transmissions" by Ken Carey.
Thanks, Charles...good job. The WingMaker Saga was the beginning of my 'mental upgrade' back in 2000, and it changed my life forever...sad that it was compromised. Hope to 'hear' more from you and wish you the best.
how was it compromised?
I M O....
The site was pretty much 'frozen' after the introduction of James...no new content added...as promised...and we were redirected to Lyricus and Event Temples...it's just my observation...blessings.
http://wespenre.com/new-revelations-on-wingmakers.htm
Well they have gone onto being involved with Spiritstate which a site with virtual books--a couple have already been out out and are very good read...
LINK to SPIRITSTATE (Quantusum Web Book)
SpiritState.com
LINK to PLANETWORK PRESS (Quantusum Physical Book)
PlanetworkPress.com
In my heart they are very much still alive :)
ulli
18th July 2013, 17:42
Like Lefty Dave I was disappointed once James appeared, Dr. Anderson became Dr. Neruda, and interview 5 never showed up.
The early days were electrifying for me.
But I hung around for the various debates...(Wingmakers- hoax or real)...
and must say that the spiritual teachings which could be found on the Lyricus website were still very high level
and I continued to get major insights from the heart virtues as well.
I haven't read the recent books, but that's because I prefer to interact here at Avalon and haven't taken the time.
An element of religious fanaticism drove me away from the Wingmakers UK forum.
I wished it had been moderated like Avalon.
The greatest revelation came to me when I connected Hermetic teachings with sub-atomic reality,
and the creation process behind myth making and meme making.
What we think we can then create. Those who don't think can be manipulated by those who do...
and that includes those who empty their minds with various practices...
they too, can be vulnerable to mind control.
Telepathy is real.
My belief now is to ponder, to investigate, and to carefully judge our own thoughts as they arise within us,
and either weave them into a personal belief or reject them if they don't fit in with our wholeness quest.
An element of religious fanaticism drove me away from the Wingmakers UK forum.
I wished it had been moderated like Avalon.
Ha Uli I was on there too...I don't recall you unless you were a different handle/different time? I was on tht forum about 2009-2010
And yes I understand the religious fanaticism there! Most times the forum did not reflect the intentions of WM for behavioral intelligence and so on... Perhaps it was a spring board to Practice on--so to speak-- because I peeked in tht forum a year ago and the same forum record was playing--same arguments-- I know we can say tht about here, but on wm forum it just seemed to be a personality program running?
The Royal Wizard
18th July 2013, 18:53
I also recommend the projectcamelot interview with James. BTW he is the only one confirming, as far as I know of, what I have always felt; that we are trapped her.
all the best
TRW
Vangelo
18th July 2013, 19:03
... John Lear is the prominant source for information as far as I am concerned and he thinks highly enough of Matilda O'Donnell MacElroy - Alien Interview (http://www.thenewearth.org/Roswell.pdf)that it is kept PDF for free on his website. ...
Hi, I also value Lear as a source so I took a look at the PDF and did not bother to read it because of the following disclaimer. Comments would be appreciated...
Disclaimer
As far as the Editor of the book, "Alien Interview" is concerned,
and for all practical purposes, the content of the book is a work
of fiction. The Editor makes no claim to the factuality of the content,
and in fact, cannot prove that the alleged author actually ever existed.
Although some of the dates, locations, persons and incidents described
may be factual or based on fact, there is no evidence to authenticate
that equally as many may be subjective contrivances of the author.
All of the information, notes and transcripts received by the Editor are
contained in their complete, original form, as represented in the book.
The Editor is no longer in possession of any original documents or copies
of original documents from the author, i.e. Mrs. MacElroy.
Some material contained in the book may have similarities to Earth
philosophies as the variety of these are too numerous to list, and bear
too many fundamental similarities to be easily differentiated. Although
the book discusses the origins of the universe, the time track of the
physical universe, paranormal activities of immortal and/or extraterrestrial
beings, "aliens" or " gods", it is in no way the intention of the Editor to
represent, endorse, forward or assume the viewpoint of the author, any
political doctrine, economic vested interest, scientific hypothesis,
religious practice or philosophy, whether terrestrial or extraterrestrial.
The notes and transcripts contained in the book, are solely and only the based
on the representations and documents provided by the author, the late Matilda
O'Donnell MacElroy, unless otherwise specifically annotated by Footnotes in The
Appendix of the book.
The Editor is not responsible for any assumptions, inferences or conclusions made
by the reader based on the material is this book, which are solely and only the
responsibility of the reader.
What is true for you, is true for you.
Lawrence R. Spencer -- Editor
Hi, I also value Lear as a source so I took a look at the PDF and did not bother to read it because of the following disclaimer. Comments would be appreciated...
Disclaimer
As far as the Editor of the book, "Alien Interview" is concerned,
and for all practical purposes, the content of the book is a work
of fiction. The Editor makes no claim to the factuality of the content,
and in fact, cannot prove that the alleged author actually ever existed.
Although some of the dates, locations, persons and incidents described
may be factual or based on fact, there is no evidence to authenticate
that equally as many may be subjective contrivances of the author.
All of the information, notes and transcripts received by the Editor are
contained in their complete, original form, as represented in the book.
The Editor is no longer in possession of any original documents or copies
of original documents from the author, i.e. Mrs. MacElroy.
Some material contained in the book may have similarities to Earth
philosophies as the variety of these are too numerous to list, and bear
too many fundamental similarities to be easily differentiated. Although
the book discusses the origins of the universe, the time track of the
physical universe, paranormal activities of immortal and/or extraterrestrial
beings, "aliens" or " gods", it is in no way the intention of the Editor to
represent, endorse, forward or assume the viewpoint of the author, any
political doctrine, economic vested interest, scientific hypothesis,
religious practice or philosophy, whether terrestrial or extraterrestrial.
The notes and transcripts contained in the book, are solely and only the based
on the representations and documents provided by the author, the late Matilda
O'Donnell MacElroy, unless otherwise specifically annotated by Footnotes in The
Appendix of the book.
The Editor is not responsible for any assumptions, inferences or conclusions made
by the reader based on the material is this book, which are solely and only the
responsibility of the reader.
What is true for you, is true for you.
Lawrence R. Spencer -- Editor
I can understand you're trepedation, the story is almost assuredly fiction in a brick and mortar kind of way, but for a guy who spent 33 years of his life studying the upper levels of scientology back when Hubbard was still alive, the story feels laced with a sense of truth in a way that still lends a certain weight to it.
Bill Ryan and Graham Hancock both did a double team and made the story known as a work of fiction. That being said, I'm pretty sure if Bill were to comment, being a fan of the higher level scientology stuff as I understand, I'm pretty sure he would state there are aspects of this story that ring true. This is worth reading, it's Bill's writings on the Alien Interview by Matilda MacElroy. http://projectcamelot.org/Alien_Interview_review.pdf...
ulli
18th July 2013, 21:10
An element of religious fanaticism drove me away from the Wingmakers UK forum.
I wished it had been moderated like Avalon.
Ha Uli I was on there too...I don't recall you unless you were a different handle/different time? I was on tht forum about 2009-2010
And yes I understand the religious fanaticism there! Most times the forum did not reflect the intentions of WM for behavioral intelligence and so on... Perhaps it was a spring board to Practice on--so to speak-- because I peeked in tht forum a year ago and the same forum record was playing--same arguments-- I know we can say tht about here, but on wm forum it just seemed to be a personality program running?
My handle there was ulli as well. I stopped participating around 2006. Was active on the Zero forum, which was shut down, and less so on the UK forum. In the earliest days there were some Yahoo groups...I was there, too.
ulli
18th July 2013, 21:14
I also recommend the projectcamelot interview with James. BTW he is the only one confirming, as far as I know of, what I have always felt; that we are trapped her.
all the best
TRW
Gurdjieff taught in the 1930s that we were prisoners, who didn't know we were imprisoned. But once our true state became known we had to start tunneling, and as a coordinated effort...as a group. Alone one can do nothing.
Bubu
19th July 2013, 01:21
Thanks this is something worth a closer look at. Be careful of the baited hooks.
Thanks this is something worth a closer look at. Be careful of the baited hooks.
Well u hooked me....wht do u mean, be careful of the baited hooks?
ghostrider
19th July 2013, 02:41
One of the things I found that correlates with the wingmakers idea of souls that wish to step out of the natural order set by God and reside in bodies of robotic manufacture was the ALIEN INTERVIEW by Matilda MacElroy.
In the WingMakers (http://www.wingmakers.com/arrow/acio/Sauthers.html) information, we find talk of a race of biological robots from another galaxy, these robots do indeed have souls. And they find life such as ours invaluable for our genetic, or DNA input that they may or may not incorporate into their own.
John Lear is the prominant source for information as far as I am concerned and he thinks highly enough of Matilda O'Donnell MacElroy - Alien Interview (http://www.thenewearth.org/Roswell.pdf)that it is kept PDF for free on his website.
In "Alien Interview"
We have a nurse who claims she was present at one of the flying saucer crash retrievals. She mentions that the alien telepathically contacted her, and that try as some of the other millitary men did do communicate with it, all was to no avail, it only communicated with MacElroy.
The "being", explained to her, that it was a biological robot, that it needed to be so because sending resource needy life forms like ourselves would be near impossible when it came to space travel over vast distances requiring long periods of time being spent in the ship.
The being also explained,,,that it had a soul,,,and that it had full memory of it's past lives. The being explained that it was part of a civilization that "created" bodies and the "soul" had the ability to download into them as "she" had done.
The biological robot was female.
Life times had different meanings for these robots with souls, because they could create a new body as they needed one, and they had full memory of their past lives.
The biological robot when on to explain a creation mythos on earth that was very much in line with the thinking in Robert Morning Sky's Terra Papers (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/08PDF_Files/The_Terra_Papers_Parts_1_and_2.pdf), and Zacharia Sitchin's works.
In the Alien Interview it was said that there was a vast Empire in our galaxy, and that earth was populated by the unwanted souls of this Empire, and the souls were kept incarnating here by means of a technological prison loop.
You see, the Empire didn't want the souls in the Empire anymore for various reasons not limited to but including, rebeliousness, innovative thinking, criminal behavior, deviant behavior, autonomy and tax evasion.
The alien explained to MacElroy that not only did this contraption work on the souls of all humans,,,,,,but,,,any way faring space travelers who might be passing through this area of space would be trapped here by the technological contraption as well.
I find that last part very interesting, because I'm always looking for strange data to corrolate and ping.
And this is some strange ping data indeed.
While I was trying to absorb the Billy Meier material from a set of audio tapes by Randolph Winters, I came across a small piece of information that caused my ears to perk. Meier was reported as asking, "can you be born on other planets"? To which it was replied to him "No, you can not be born on another planet, unless you travel there by body and then die".
a spirit form is tied to the planet the body dies on... yep , if you board a spaceship and fly to saturn and the body dies while your there , the spirit will re-incarnate on saturn ... this is a law of creation that cannot be broken ...
Kraut
19th July 2013, 09:02
...You see, the Empire didn't want the souls in the Empire anymore for various reasons not limited to but including, rebeliousness, innovative thinking, criminal behavior, deviant behavior, autonomy and tax evasion.
The alien explained to MacElroy that not only did this contraption work on the souls of all humans,,,,,,but,,,any way faring space travelers who might be passing through this area of space would be trapped here by the technological contraption as well.
I find that last part very interesting, because I'm always looking for strange data to corrolate and ping.
And this is some strange ping data indeed.
While I was trying to absorb the Billy Meier material from a set of audio tapes by Randolph Winters, I came across a small piece of information that caused my ears to perk. Meier was reported as asking, "can you be born on other planets"? To which it was replied to him "No, you can not be born on another planet, unless you travel there by body and then die".
Any info on how we can escape or overcome that contraption?
Any info on how we can escape or overcome that contraption?
Hello Kraut
Hope all is well with you.
Let me first state, that I do not know if I necessarily believe in the whole technological soul trap thing.
I'm correlating data, so I'm willing to slap some like minded commentary together by folks who seem to be thinking along similiar veins.
To answer your're question with no evasiveness so I can move on to my own theory I'll state this.
In Carlos Castaneda's "The Eagle's Gift"
http://images.textbooks.com/TextbookInfo/Covers/067173251X.gif
Castaneda states that the ancient seers of Toltec Mexico, (which in my opinion are a lineage to one of the predeluvian cultures that lived on the earth before the sinking of Atlantis), when watching a soul go into the process of death saw a giant eagle. This giant eagle would devour the soul and all of it's awareness. Castaneda pointed out that the ancinet seers didn't really think the awareness devouring monstrosity was really a giant eagle, but that since that is the appearance it first took when they first saw it, the image stuck and as such that is what they call it.
The parrallels between Castaneda's Eagle and the technolical alien prison planet theory are there.
So, it would stand to reason that Castaneda's methods for attaining freedom in the explanations in his books would and could very well be the answer to your question.
Best of Luck Kraut
Okay, that took longer than I expected, so I'll have to save my personal theory for another time.
Kraut
19th July 2013, 09:40
Hi DNA,
thanks for the response. Will check out Castaneda. Another author on the list. :)
I'm reading the interview with James of the Wingmakers, Ba-ba-Ra posted a link in her post, and this passage is sobering but insightful:
Post-Death System (PDS) – This is the system where the individual, upon death of their physical body, is greeted by guides “on the other side” and review their life experience, confronting those areas of deficiency and returning to right the wrongs of their previous life, in other words, karma and reincarnation. The PDS is the means by which the Sovereign Integral remains in the grip of illusion even though the illusion is a heightened reality when compared to physical existence on the Earth plane. It enables the recycling of the Sovereign Integral into physical dimensions over and over again.
There is that theme of not being free in "life after death" once again. I know this puts me at odds with some here but I have always felt that the idea of being here to learn isn't right. We've been around here for a long time most likely, having experienced almost everything possible, done almost everything, seen almost everything, suffered plenty and all that. At some point there is no need for further lessons. The idea that we keep being here to learn more leads to an acceptance of our situations, we become passive because we think "well, it's happening because I need this to learn a lesson". Sure we can learn, but most likely we've had that lesson plenty of times already. Besides that one does not have to learn through personal experience all the time. Humanity as a whole has amassed many lessons that could be shared with and by all.
Best of Luck Kraut
To all of us!
Okay, that took longer than I expected, so I'll have to save my personal theory for another time.
Looking forward to it.
I'm reading the interview with James of the Wingmakers, Ba-ba-Ra posted a link in her post, and this passage is sobering but insightful:
Quote Post-Death System (PDS) – This is the system where the individual, upon death of their physical body, is greeted by guides “on the other side” and review their life experience, confronting those areas of deficiency and returning to right the wrongs of their previous life, in other words, karma and reincarnation. The PDS is the means by which the Sovereign Integral remains in the grip of illusion even though the illusion is a heightened reality when compared to physical existence on the Earth plane. It enables the recycling of the Sovereign Integral into physical dimensions over and over again.
This is one of the parts in tht interview I think he was warning about in the opening....
I mean to think that the layer beyond death is a program as well is a pretty hard pill to swallow---if true
I take it in and would not be surprised if the layered onion goes that deep...James even suggests that the planets and our solar system is apart of the "furniture" and somewhat alludes to it being apart of the illusion as well.
Flash
19th July 2013, 12:57
I'm reading the interview with James of the Wingmakers, Ba-ba-Ra posted a link in her post, and this passage is sobering but insightful:
Quote Post-Death System (PDS) – This is the system where the individual, upon death of their physical body, is greeted by guides “on the other side” and review their life experience, confronting those areas of deficiency and returning to right the wrongs of their previous life, in other words, karma and reincarnation. The PDS is the means by which the Sovereign Integral remains in the grip of illusion even though the illusion is a heightened reality when compared to physical existence on the Earth plane. It enables the recycling of the Sovereign Integral into physical dimensions over and over again.
This is one of the parts in tht interview I think he was warning about in the opening....
I mean to think that the layer beyond death is a program as well is a pretty hard pill to swallow---if true
I take it in and would not be surprised if the layered onion goes that deep...James even suggests that the planets and our solar system is apart of the "furniture" and somewhat alludes to it being apart of the illusion as well.
I am not surprised personally, that is what I heard from spirotiual teachers as well, recycling souls on a prison planet and to get out of it demands herculean discipline and yet...
even my own dad was telling me this was a prison planet, how he knew??? I don't know. But to him, the way this planet is run made no sense and it felt like a prison planet.
ulli
19th July 2013, 13:13
I'm reading the interview with James of the Wingmakers, Ba-ba-Ra posted a link in her post, and this passage is sobering but insightful:
Quote Post-Death System (PDS) – This is the system where the individual, upon death of their physical body, is greeted by guides “on the other side” and review their life experience, confronting those areas of deficiency and returning to right the wrongs of their previous life, in other words, karma and reincarnation. The PDS is the means by which the Sovereign Integral remains in the grip of illusion even though the illusion is a heightened reality when compared to physical existence on the Earth plane. It enables the recycling of the Sovereign Integral into physical dimensions over and over again.
This is one of the parts in tht interview I think he was warning about in the opening....
I mean to think that the layer beyond death is a program as well is a pretty hard pill to swallow---if true
I take it in and would not be surprised if the layered onion goes that deep...James even suggests that the planets and our solar system is apart of the "furniture" and somewhat alludes to it being apart of the illusion as well.
For years I was wondering about reincarnation, whether there was truth in it.
Christianity denies it, eastern religions uphold it.
I now see it as an option, not as an absolute.
If one gets the concept of right thought, right action, right living,
clean conscience, facing one's reality on a daily basis, knowing what one is doing and why,
acquiring virtues, having integrity, then there is no such thing as regret at the end of life.
Without regret there has to be no 'Oh NOOOO, I messed up big time,
let me go straight back and correct those errors.'
So unless one decides to voluntarily return to earth to offer service,
there is really no need to go back at all. Knowledge of the situation will liberate one,
even if ones ways are changed only a few hours before dying.
Firm belief in reincarnation has to be seen as an option, not held as an absolute.
Sure, we may all be reincarnated, but we don't have to continue that trip next time we die.
Just musing.....
Flash
19th July 2013, 13:28
Those who feel guilt ulli are the regular good people who have not much to reproach themselves. Psychopaths feel no guilt and I bet they feel no guilt at death either. Reincarnation b being an option where the psychos win, it does not hold the road for me at the moment. If they are the winners by having a choice, in that case, lets all be psychopaths.
I have heard from many sources that the earth was entwined in a mesh of electro magnetic forces that kept us in. Call it a quarantine planet, a prison planet, a non developed civilization not permitted to be space goer, this all means the same, we are block from going further away. Where would eternal beings go then if they can't go anywhere? They recycle on their planet, no choice, except maybe very little on that same planet. And then, we know how subject to all kind of influences we are once in. which makes getting out pretty difficult, herculean forces to be applied.
So unless one decides to voluntarily return to earth to offer service,
there is really no need to go back at all. Knowledge of the situation will liberate one,
even if ones ways are changed only a few hours before dying.
Firm belief in reincarnation has to be seen as an option, not held as an absolute.
Sure, we may all be reincarnated, but we don't have to continue that trip next time we die.
Just musing.....
I always thought when I become AWARE of the "choice" I made, the first thing im gonna do is slap myself up the head!
Kraut
19th July 2013, 13:54
I'm reading the interview with James of the Wingmakers, Ba-ba-Ra posted a link in her post, and this passage is sobering but insightful:
Quote Post-Death System (PDS) – This is the system where the individual, upon death of their physical body, is greeted by guides “on the other side” and review their life experience, confronting those areas of deficiency and returning to right the wrongs of their previous life, in other words, karma and reincarnation. The PDS is the means by which the Sovereign Integral remains in the grip of illusion even though the illusion is a heightened reality when compared to physical existence on the Earth plane. It enables the recycling of the Sovereign Integral into physical dimensions over and over again.
This is one of the parts in tht interview I think he was warning about in the opening....
I mean to think that the layer beyond death is a program as well is a pretty hard pill to swallow---if true
I take it in and would not be surprised if the layered onion goes that deep...James even suggests that the planets and our solar system is apart of the "furniture" and somewhat alludes to it being apart of the illusion as well.
To my surprise it doesn't scare me anymore. There were times when it freaked me out to imagine that even the "afterlife" is a means of controlling us and keeping us in a loop. I guess you could look at it this way: let's say it's true and the realms we go to after our life here are part of the prison and illusion. Those realms (as many report) are not bad realms, they seem to be better even. Perhaps they're even pretty nice. And life here is not always bad, there's always good things we can appreciate. Words like prison usually shock, but the prison is not all bad. Remembering that can keep one in more of a calm state. No need to get agitated, that leads to nowhere. Basically there is nothing to fear since no one and nothing gets lost. We are eternal beings in our purest state. And eventually everyone will reclaim and reconnect with that state of being and will be free.
What I find fascinating is that despite the sad state we are in and the many different explanations for why that is and what is happening almost every concept points out that things will be alright again, that the prison will be dismantled and people will be free. Keeping that in mind we have to become honest and work on ourselves, the more aware we become the easier the transition is, what we figure out now could even help us in the other realms if we find ourselves there before things here get better. What's also interesting is that all the different concepts point out that we are not alone in this, there are higher forces who are helping to correct these problems here. That doesn't exempt us from our personal responsibility but it is good to know.
ulli
19th July 2013, 13:58
Those who feel guilt ulli are the regular good people who have not much to reproach themselves. Psychopaths feel no guilt and I bet they feel no guilt at death either. Reincarnation b being an option where the psychos win, it does not hold the road for me at the moment. If they are the winners by having a choice, in that case, lets all be psychopaths.
I have heard from many sources that the earth was entwined in a mesh of electro magnetic forces that kept us in. Call it a quarantine planet, a prison planet, a non developed civilization not permitted to be space goer, this all means the same, we are block from going further away. Where would eternal beings go then if they can't go anywhere? They recycle on their planet, no choice, except maybe very little on that same planet. And then, we know how subject to all kind of influences we are once in. which makes getting out pretty difficult, herculean forces to be applied.
For me, to study the entire field of belief, faith, illusion, delusion, credence, fixed ideas,
and the difference between those terms has helped me enormously.
Of course, I still have moments when I feel despair and hopelessness. But deep inside I know that escape is possible,
and that there are helpers on the other side, so the effort required is not quite as herculean as one might think.
If it were not so, there would be no spiritual growth at all, yet I have seen many people become transformed and operate with ease, not efforting, while adhering to higher cosmic laws.
Kraut
19th July 2013, 14:06
For years I was wondering about reincarnation, whether there was truth in it.
Christianity denies it, eastern religions uphold it.
Was the same for me. The gnostic branch of Christianity (some say it's the original form) does allude to reincarnation. Some even made it seem that we come back here until we finally get it right, depending on former actions we even have more unpleasant incarnations and bodies. It's something I am not sure about, my feeling is that we are not here by choice.
I now see it as an option, not as an absolute.
If one gets the concept of right thought, right action, right living,
clean conscience, facing one's reality on a daily basis, knowing what one is doing and why,
acquiring virtues, having integrity, then there is no such thing as regret at the end of life.
Without regret there has to be no 'Oh NOOOO, I messed up big time,
let me go straight back and correct those errors.'
But don't we mess up all the time, regardless of how hard we try? It could be said that we are at a disadvantage, we get our memory wiped before coming here, memories (some probably most traumatic and better left forgotten) that could help us do better so we don't repeat past mistakes again. And then we have this environment that makes it even harder with powers that try to push our buttons every day and lots of people giving in to the madness here. Not always good cards we get dealt, and we're still lucky compared to many other people on this planet. At least I am.
So unless one decides to voluntarily return to earth to offer service,
there is really no need to go back at all. Knowledge of the situation will liberate one,
even if ones ways are changed only a few hours before dying.
I'm only 31 and I feel too old for all of this. :) I keep feeling like I am tired of this reincarnation game and have had more than enough. Life as we live it makes little sense to me. And looking at the state of humanity is painful, even if it's not my personally felt pain. There are moments when I think about the idea that we came here by choice and I say to myself "idiot, what were you thinking?...".
Firm belief in reincarnation has to be seen as an option, not held as an absolute.
Sure, we may all be reincarnated, but we don't have to continue that trip next time we die.
Just musing.....
That's a good thought. Nothing is certain when it comes to beliefs and religious/spiritual ideas.
Okay, that took longer than I expected, so I'll have to save my personal theory for another time.
Looking forward to it.
Hi Ulli, CD7, Flash and Kraut. :)
I do love these discussians.
I always would like to start with, wherever you are is exactly where you are supposed to be. So if you believe in a religion or you don't, or you believe in a soul trap or you don't, it's cool. I state this because I'm certainly not going to argue any point I"m trying to make here. It's just opinion.
I think folks at times confuse the CHI or QI energy associated with our body and mistake it for the soul in these conversations. I do think there are parasitic entities that feed off of our energy, but this energy is not our immortal soul.
The Taittiriya Upanishad describes the five affected bodies with which our untouchable immortal soul resides.
1. Anna Maya Kosha: The body made of physical matter
2. Prana Maya Kosha: The body made of vital energy
3. Mano Maya Kosha: The body of thought energy
4. Vijnana Maya Kosha: The body of higher intelligence
5. Ananda Maya Kosha: The body of mystical awareness
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSfgMJHHjxY1MbtDYQxeJWTpowdVf4H3 6TfKm_M-twd0LwBPUNSOQ
Now, though I don't believe in a soul harvester that sucks down our soul if we let's say walk into the light tunnel upon death, let me clarify that I absolutely think there are mechanisms in place that feed on the residuals of our soul.
It is my belief that this feeding takes place on these extra energy bodies that are associated with our soul, and that these extra energy bodies, though folks are a tad oblivious to them are not the same thing as the soul.
As a matter of fact these aspects atrophy with age and neglect, and in fact die and disintergrate with the body upon death.
I just want to reiterate that the energy bodies are not part of the immortal soul.
They are part of the mortal coil, and they are going to die.
It may even be these energy bodies Carlos Castaneda was talking about when he stated that the ancient seers of Toltec Mexico watched the Eagle eating our awareness.
Edgar Cayce and many others told of the fact that we are multidimensional beings, and it is to this I am pointing.
It may very well be the case that we are indeed stuck in a matrix of sorts, and that the reason for our limited awareness and atrophied energy bodies is the result of organized forces feeding upon them.
I could get more into these entities and our predicament with them, but I'm afraid I would be making this post a tad too long, and also lose the point of it, which is debating the soul harvesting process Wingmakers and others talk about when referring to our world as a prison planet.
I think all of the difficulty and adversity we deal with, we signed up for before we we're born. Energy parasites, Illuminati, Old family Bankers the whole sha-bang.
I think the material out there pointing to this prison planet scenario does a good job of talking to my head, but it does not appeal to my heart, nor does it feel right on a intuitive level.
I subscribe to a reinacarnation model as outlined by Edgar Cayce, Jane Roberts and Michael Newton. It more than appeals to my head, it appeals to my heart, and intuitively it has the ring of truth. I believe in the light as a home, not a trap.
I believe what feels like an eternity on this planet will at a later time be revealed as the smallest of blips on our journey, and the power of the light will be made obvious in it's infinite capabilities over the darkness.
For me this small interview which in my opinion is the best near death experience ever documented holds a lot of sway in stating that the light tunnel and friends offering help are legitimate.
It is one of the only near death experiences completely monitored by a medical staff, because the death was purposely caused for an extreme medical treatment that offerred hope for life when no others did.
Take Care All
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNbdUEqDB-k
ulli
19th July 2013, 14:20
For years I was wondering about reincarnation, whether there was truth in it.
Christianity denies it, eastern religions uphold it.
Was the same for me. The gnostic branch of Christianity (some say it's the original form) does allude to reincarnation. Some even made it seem that we come back here until we finally get it right, depending on former actions we even have more unpleasant incarnations and bodies. It's something I am not sure about, my feeling is that we are not here by choice.
I now see it as an option, not as an absolute.
If one gets the concept of right thought, right action, right living,
clean conscience, facing one's reality on a daily basis, knowing what one is doing and why,
acquiring virtues, having integrity, then there is no such thing as regret at the end of life.
Without regret there has to be no 'Oh NOOOO, I messed up big time,
let me go straight back and correct those errors.'
But don't we mess up all the time, regardless of how hard we try? It could be said that we are at a disadvantage, we get our memory wiped before coming here, memories (some probably most traumatic and better left forgotten) that could help us do better so we don't repeat past mistakes again. And then we have this environment that makes it even harder with powers that try to push our buttons every day and lots of people giving in to the madness here. Not always good cards we get dealt, and we're still lucky compared to many other people on this planet. At least I am.
So unless one decides to voluntarily return to earth to offer service,
there is really no need to go back at all. Knowledge of the situation will liberate one,
even if ones ways are changed only a few hours before dying.
I'm only 31 and I feel too old for all of this. :) I keep feeling like I am tired of this reincarnation game and have had more than enough. Life as we live it makes little sense to me. And looking at the state of humanity is painful, even if it's not my personally felt pain. There are moments when I think about the idea that we came here by choice and I say to myself "idiot, what were you thinking?...".
Firm belief in reincarnation has to be seen as an option, not held as an absolute.
Sure, we may all be reincarnated, but we don't have to continue that trip next time we die.
Just musing.....
That's a good thought. Nothing is certain when it comes to beliefs and religious/spiritual ideas.
Here is what I think:
there is a difference between becoming perfect (not possible) and getting it right.
Getting it right inside one's head....having set a standard for oneself.
That standard is a balance point, where God can be found.
God is the infinite power that can get one out of prison planets, as nothing is impossible to such a power.
And I'm not talking about an Annunaki alien, but the real creator of the earth and the heavens.
Nor am I talking about churches here.
Every time we are off balance it is because we missed sight of the big picture,
And being off balance we create a situation (illusion) that gives us an idea how to fix ourselves and straighten out again.
If one does that regularly then one gets guidance how to get to the next level, etc.
Until one day our eyes are opened to discover the plan or will of the Almighty for this period in history.
And that, to me, is the realization that God wants to unify the planet,
but at a grassroots level, not a corporate global elite level.
By creating communities, helping one another, forming loving relationships.
None of that is very difficult, yet it opens incredible doors and blessings.....
there is a difference between becoming perfect (not possible) and getting it right.
I Do Indeed believe we have the ability to become perfect
Like Lefty Dave I was disappointed once James appeared, Dr. Anderson became Dr. Neruda, and interview 5 never showed up.
The early days were electrifying for me.
But I hung around for the various debates...(Wingmakers- hoax or real)...
and must say that the spiritual teachings which could be found on the Lyricus website were still very high level
and I continued to get major insights from the heart virtues as well.
I haven't read the recent books, but that's because I prefer to interact here at Avalon and haven't taken the time.
An element of religious fanaticism drove me away from the Wingmakers UK forum.
I wished it had been moderated like Avalon.
The greatest revelation came to me when I connected Hermetic teachings with sub-atomic reality,
and the creation process behind myth making and meme making.
I have never read the books either. What I was able to glean from the material was through what was given out free on the web.
I must confess, I'm not the type of guy who really enjoys reading from a tablet or computer, I like to hold a solid book in my hands.
I would love for anyone who has read the actual books to give maybe a little over view. :)
What we think we can then create. Those who don't think can be manipulated by those who do...
and that includes those who empty their minds with various practices...
they too, can be vulnerable to mind control.
Telepathy is real.
My belief now is to ponder, to investigate, and to carefully judge our own thoughts as they arise within us,
and either weave them into a personal belief or reject them if they don't fit in with our wholeness quest.
You must forgive me. I was responding to a post someone else made on another thread that in a seven degrees to Kevin Bacon sort of way was saying what you are stating here, when I realized, I wasn't really responding to that person's post, I was really responding to your post. So again, you will have to forgive me, I stopped writing and decided to go ahead and respond to your post, since it has stuck in my mind like it had. :bathbaby:
I have heard folks repeat a certain fear of meditation. I think it helps to clarify by asking what exactly is meditation? I've heard folks state that through the emptying of yourself you set yourself up as being filled by a entity. I couldn't disagree more.
What I will say is this. The act of meditation is nothing more than a redistribution of resources.
Our energy and or Chi go where our attention goes.
Through perceptual habit, we have allowed certain abilities and perceptions to atrophy.
Meditation is simply the act of turning off normal consumers of perceptual energy so that other lesser known vehicles of perception may in turn be activated.
This takes a while and some folks are angered by the lack of instant gratification on this account.
It's not like putting duracells in a flash light, it's more like watering seeds and patiently waiting for them to sprout and poke through the soil.
Meditation isn't so much emptying your self as it is controling your self.
This redistribution of resources doesn't have to be perceptual.
Yoga is the practice of reallocating these resources to various areas of the body that are in need of attention.
Much love for the oppurtunity to expand on this, thank you.
ulli
19th July 2013, 15:44
there is a difference between becoming perfect (not possible) and getting it right.
I Do Indeed believe we have the ability to become perfect
I meant in the sense of pleasing everyone we wish to please...and that is not possible.
So priorities have to be established, and how would that be done?
By using the standard of one's highest beliefs, doing one's best, etc...
But true perfection is not possible without a voluntary martyrdom
that can inspire hundreds of generations such as the founders of the great religions have done.
ulli
19th July 2013, 15:54
Like Lefty Dave I was disappointed once James appeared, Dr. Anderson became Dr. Neruda, and interview 5 never showed up.
The early days were electrifying for me.
But I hung around for the various debates...(Wingmakers- hoax or real)...
and must say that the spiritual teachings which could be found on the Lyricus website were still very high level
and I continued to get major insights from the heart virtues as well.
I haven't read the recent books, but that's because I prefer to interact here at Avalon and haven't taken the time.
An element of religious fanaticism drove me away from the Wingmakers UK forum.
I wished it had been moderated like Avalon.
The greatest revelation came to me when I connected Hermetic teachings with sub-atomic reality,
and the creation process behind myth making and meme making.
I have never read the books either. What I was able to glean from the material was through what was given out free on the web.
I must confess, I'm not the type of guy who really enjoys reading from a tablet or computer, I like to hold a solid book in my hands.
I would love for anyone who has read the actual books to give maybe a little over view. :)
What we think we can then create. Those who don't think can be manipulated by those who do...
and that includes those who empty their minds with various practices...
they too, can be vulnerable to mind control.
Telepathy is real.
My belief now is to ponder, to investigate, and to carefully judge our own thoughts as they arise within us,
and either weave them into a personal belief or reject them if they don't fit in with our wholeness quest.
You must forgive me. I was responding to a post someone else made on another thread that in a seven degrees to Kevin Bacon sort of way was saying what you are stating here, when I realized, I wasn't really responding to that person's post, I was really responding to your post. So again, you will have to forgive me, I stopped writing and decided to go ahead and respond to your post, since it has stuck in my mind like it had. :bathbaby:
I have heard folks repeat a certain fear of meditation. I think it helps to clarify by asking what exactly is meditation? I've heard folks state that through the emptying of yourself you set yourself up as being filled by a entity. I couldn't disagree more.
What I will say is this. The act of meditation is nothing more than a redistribution of resources.
Our energy and or Chi go where our attention goes.
Through perceptual habit, we have allowed certain abilities and perceptions to atrophy.
Meditation is simply the act of turning off normal consumers of perceptual energy so that other lesser known vehicles of perception may in turn be activated.
This takes a while and some folks are angered by the lack of instant gratification on this account.
It's not like putting duracells in a flash light, it's more like watering seeds and patiently waiting for them to sprout and poke through the soil.
Meditation isn't so much emptying your self as it is controling your self.
This redistribution of resources doesn't have to be perceptual.
Yoga is the practice of reallocating these resources to various areas of the body that are in need of attention.
Much love for the oppurtunity to expand on this, thank you.
Thanks you for expressing that.
Great thread, by the way. The Wingmakers materials had a most powerful effect on me, connecting loads and loads of dots.
My experiences with meditation are varied....I did TM for a while, in the seventies,
and found it to open my up to a dark hierarchy.
Llater in the early eighties I did meditation with a group of Yogananda followers,
which was pure light, and led me directly to the Bahai teachings...
Then I meditated with my Costa Rica Gurdjieff group, and at the same time with the friends in the Bahai community,
Bahai meditation which is more like a contemplation, while repeating the word Allah'u'Abha 95 times.
This had the most calming and uplifting effect of all. Not to be confused with Allah'u'Akbar, a Muslim term.
charlesgilbertwright
19th July 2013, 16:11
[CGW---19JULY2013---well first of all, I am enjoying all of the discussion from all of you. Second, I feel that my higher-self directed me here now for a reason. I have been reading all of the supersoldier material and got to reading:
-PROJECT: SOUL CATCHER by Robert Duncan
-two books by Solaris Blueraven
-Sam Jenkins's book HOW BLACK OPS STOPPED ASCENSION…
Which talks about the control issues of the controllers (be they human, non-human, or both working together).
So it looks like my higher self wants me to gather a larger context from the WINGMAKERS material.
It would appear that no one else made the connection of the geographic location of 80 miles NE from Chaco Canyon being near Rio Arriba aka Dulce. (WINGMAKERS and UFO HIGHWAY)
But any way, it got me here, smack dab in the midst of like minded explorers. Feeling really cozy right now. Thanks.
I was happy to have stumbled upon Wes Penre’s excellent paper and read it first, before posting on the Avalon site. http://wespenre.com/new-revelations-on-wingmakers.htm
So, I read until 1 am this morning and got as far as questions 1 and 2 of the interview that Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan had with James[aka Mahu Nahi], page 15 of 61.
Thanks to all of you for suggesting that I start there, before jumping into all of the rest of the WINGMAKERS material. After reading all of the responses that James [aka Mahu Nahi] gives to the 23 questions, I will let that settle in the emotional body before deciding if I want to read all of the WM corpus.
The four books by Michael Newton (http://www.newtoninstitute.org/} that I read during 2011 have furnished an excellent foundation for me to judge/gauge/view/compare this new WM material.
Journey of Souls (1994) by Michael Newton
Destiny of Souls (2000) by Michael Newton
Life between lives Hypnotherapy (2004) by Michael Newton
Memories of the Afterlife (2009) by Michael Newton
While living in New Mexico (2008-2012) I had three past life hypnotic regression sessions facilitated by Madonna Kettler.
I don’t think/feel that the majority of us eternal souls are in lock down control status.
When we decide to reincarnate it is free will and not decided by anyone else, but our own soul.
IF the soul is in lock down, then that is temporary too, and the learning we all gain will not be lost.
Only 5-10% of our soul is inside of the physical body at any one time, because the human physical brain circuits would be fried if much more than that was allowed in. Some have tried more, but it didn’t work. So that means that 90-95% of our soul is always out of body and not in lock down control status.
The scenario that posits a controlling force within the soul realm does not jive with my internal knowing guts feelings etc. Nor does it jive with the Newton findings from 7000 people he worked with over the 42 year research period that he collected his data from before writing his findings. It is interesting to know that he was an agnostic prior to getting this info.
On the other hand, I have never been an agnostic, and at certain times bought the Christian story lock-stock-and-barrel for a while, but then moved on as my questions and observations could no longer be suppressed within a narrow framework of interpretation of reality. I went so far as to be an ordained elder in the United Methodist Church in 1988. The UMC is strong on social responsibility, but weak on understanding non-physical reality. I love them for their social stances, but feel too restricted within the dogma. So I moved on.
I do have deeper questions:
Why did WE choose to create this organic university within a DNA manufactured biological body.
I think the “WE” is all-there-is, the god, the creator of this whole mess, we call creation and that the entire WE is inside of the entire creation, not separated from it.
During my anger and suicidal depression days, I too would rage at the machine.
But have survived those close calls and am in it for the long haul now, knowing that it is all temporary, and have been here many times before, having recovered a few memories that my higher self chose for me to see and remember.
All is good, even though most of it seems to be crap most of the time. Humor goes a long way in helping to survive.
Even the temporary games [thousands of years, short time geologically speaking] that some controllers play, are providing stark harsh contrasts so light and shadow co-exist providing a texture to play in.
SRA, MK-ULTRA suck.
PROJECT PAPERCLIP perpetuated the NAZI agenda into our generation as it continues to operate below the radar in all of our institutions, be they military, medical, university, corporation, etc.
World Bankers finance both sides of wars for huge profits.
Non-humans feast upon emotional energies produced by the human body during all of its emotional states, often induced by torture, etc.
Creation is a wonderful dualistic polarized mess.
There is no ONE god that we can point our finger at and demand a WHY DID YOU MAKE SUCH A PAINFUL MESS?!?!....question at. The one finger pointing forward and three fingers pointing back at our self.
WE are it.
I firmly feel that WE (the entire creator) reside within all quantum particles of creation, cells, EMF waves, atoms, electrons, bozon particles, quarks, planets, suns, galaxies, etc.
Therefore the creation is a “WE EVENT”, all taking part in the madness.
Is this the best that WE could come up with? Looks like it so far.
Truly a love-hate combo plate dish. Give me some salsa for that please.
Would we want it any other way.
The rides at the amusement park that scare the hell out of us, seem to be the most fun.
Making a cake creates chaos in the kitchen.
Giving birth to a baby is very painful.
Well anyway, will be checking back later, as I finish the 23 questions of Kerry Cassidy’s interview with James aka Mahu Nahi.
Thanks again for playing in the sand box.
btw I forgot to mention that Barbara Ann Brennan's book HANDS OF LIGHT was the most powerful book I have ever read 3 times. It explained so much about us and how we are made.
Thanks you for expressing that.
Great thread, by the way. The Wingmakers materials had a most powerful effect on me, connecting loads and loads of dots.
My experiences with meditation are varied....I did TM for a while, in the seventies,
and found it to open my up to a dark hierarchy.
Llater in the early eighties I did meditation with a group of Yogananda followers,
which was pure light, and led me directly to the Bahai teachings...
Then I meditated with my Costa Rica Gurdjieff group, and at the same time with the friends in the Bahai community,
Bahai meditation which is more like a contemplation, while repeating the word Allah'u'Abha 95 times.
This had the most calming and uplifting effect of all. Not to be confused with Allah'u'Akbar, a Muslim term.
Wow, this is pretty cool.
I have never done a meditation where the focus was vocal and as such the focus of attention being on the auditory.
One must I guess come to the conclusian that mediation isn't really the emptying of the mind, but the focusing of the mind on something other than the internal dialogue of the ego.
But I never really stopped to make an inventory of the differing methods for retraining your attention.
My first form of meditation came in the form of Yoga, where the breathing is the focus, and then the pain in the body caused by stretching is to be the focus so as to send your energy there. Many wonderfull things can happen when this is done, for instance you can be put in touch with traumas you didn't know existed stored in various areas of the body. Breathing chi into these areas and acknowledging the trama can be beneficial to health.
The second form of meditation I use is an open eye meditation. Where I focus on a small object and keep my vision focused excluding all else.
I have never particiapated in any type of chant meditation and the thought of it now intrigues me.
So I suppose the meditation focus types could get a classification if one were interested in that type of thing.
Auditory focus
Kenistetic focus
visual focus
To name a few.
I suppose I can now see where I may have been wrong in my above post stating I did not think meditation could lead one to any type of possesion.
It has long been my belief that various "secret societies" with their oaths in old dead languages, could be a disguised method for tricking folks into inviting an entity into them.
It is my belief that entities can not possess you per se through the act of meditation, but as the old addage goes for Vampires.
They can not enter your home unless you invite them.
There could be some of this disgused in various meditation chants as well and folks for all they know may in fact be chanting a welcome to said entities.
Much to ponder Ulli, thank you very much
ulli
19th July 2013, 16:31
Thanks you for expressing that.
Great thread, by the way. The Wingmakers materials had a most powerful effect on me, connecting loads and loads of dots.
My experiences with meditation are varied....I did TM for a while, in the seventies,
and found it to open my up to a dark hierarchy.
Llater in the early eighties I did meditation with a group of Yogananda followers,
which was pure light, and led me directly to the Bahai teachings...
Then I meditated with my Costa Rica Gurdjieff group, and at the same time with the friends in the Bahai community,
Bahai meditation which is more like a contemplation, while repeating the word Allah'u'Abha 95 times.
This had the most calming and uplifting effect of all. Not to be confused with Allah'u'Akbar, a Muslim term.
Wow, this is pretty cool.
I have never done a meditation where the focus was vocal and as such the focus of attention being on the auditory.
One must I guess come to the conclusian that mediation isn't really the emptying of the mind, but the focusing of the mind on something other than the internal dialogue of the ego.
But I never really stopped to make an inventory of the differing methods for retraining your attention.
My first form of meditation came in the form of Yoga, where the breathing is the focus, and then the pain in the body caused by stretching is to be the focus so as to send your energy there. Many wonderfull things can happen when this is done, for instance you can be put in touch with traumas you didn't know existed stored in various areas of the body. Breathing chi into these areas and acknowledging the trama can be beneficial to health.
The second form of meditation I use is an open eye meditation. Where I focus on a small object and keep my vision focused excluding all else.
I have never particiapated in any type of chant meditation and the thought of it now intrigues me.
So I suppose the meditation focus types could get a classification if one were interested in that type of thing.
Auditory focus
Kenistetic focus
visual focus
To name a few.
I suppose I can now see where I may have been wrong in my above post stating I did not think meditation could lead one to any type of possesion.
It has long been my belief that various "secret societies" with their oaths in old dead languages, could be a disguised method for tricking folks into inviting an entity into them.
It is my belief that entities can not possess you per se through the act of meditation, but as the old addage goes for Vampires.
They can not enter your home unless you invite them.
There could be some of this disgused in various meditation chants as well and folks for all they know may in fact be chanting a welcome to said entities.
Much to ponder Ulli, thank you very much
Where focus goes, energy flows. I choose to send my focus to the highest, to get my batteries recharged there, and to serve only the highest agenda.
This in turn keeps me in a protective bubble.
I know about the dark agendas, the self-serving secret societies
that want to cause strife and division, and entrap people into giving them service.
But I will no longer study their antics, lest I get lost in their abyss.
Focusing on the highest gives occasional glimpses of the vastness of the Concourse on High,
the eternal realm, and infinite worlds of the Creator, which are all waiting to be explored.
But to get to them one needs to purify oneself first,
as they deny entry to anyone who might otherwise contaminate
the heaven they represent.
I would love for anyone who has read the actual books to give maybe a little over view.
R414ard90Wc
Well here is a trailer for the Dohrman prophecy...there is a youtube channel as you can glean from this with more trailer's for the virtual books tht have been published....
The books are complex..always, theres so much going on usually a repeat read is good. As with MOST WM material..
Where focus goes, energy flows. I choose to send my focus to the highest, to get my batteries recharged there, and to serve only the highest agenda.
This in turn keeps me in a protective bubble.
I know about the dark agendas, the self-serving secret societies
that want to cause strife and division, and entrap people into giving them service.
But I will no longer study their antics, lest I get lost in their abyss.
Focusing on the highest gives occasional glimpses of the vastness of the Concourse on High,
the eternal realm, and infinite worlds of the Creator, which are all waiting to be explored.
But to get to them one needs to purify oneself first,
as they deny entry to anyone who might otherwise contaminate
the heaven they represent.
I started to respond to this post twice, and stopped, I was afraid I sounded confrontational and or as if I was baiting for a debate.
I don't want to enter into a sport for right or wrong, but I would like to enter a discussian in the hopes of mutual understanding. You have some excellent information in an area I do not tread in.
First off, I want to state that I do not think all possesion is apparently bad for the possessed. In some instances it appears that possesion is actually beneficial in some health related ways, I do not think it so for autonomy and or the soul, but appearances are what they are. Anyway, I do not believe so much in possesion to the extent one loses control, but rather, the taking on of a passenger who offers a service in exchange for his fee.
I'm going to make a statement that is totally controversial, and yet, I do not think it is as big a deal as one would think.
I think that all religions based upon an outside emobdyment of divinity are inviting a form of possession.
I think this possession is far more common than people think, and I think it may offer some health and paradigm stream-lining benefits.
Let me start by offering up the famous picture by Alex Grey "entities and demons drinking from the milky pool". In this picture you see a host of Gods displayed that run the gamut in terms of being deemed the most positive to the most negative, but one thing pervades them all and it is their sustinance, the milky pool of mankind's energies.
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/thireyecommunication/AlexGrey2.jpg
In the more positive aspect of this practice we see Alex Grey's piece "the magic river", and it is from my opinion showing the same thing, albeit on a more tolerable and less impactfull format.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-AnHWNCuDlW4/TWYvzgeYTfI/AAAAAAAAP8k/5peKA8TglOc/s1600/alexgrey4.jpg
As far as we humans are concerned, there are
dimensions above and beyond our normal ability to
perceive.
Organic life as the human race knows it, is locked
within the confines of the third dimension so far as I can tell.
As we develop our senses we may perceive that there is
more than the three-dimensional life we are used to.
Life can exist above and beyond the normal three
dimensional space we are used to perceiving.
Parasitic beings live in what could be termed a fourth
dimension, a place that does not sustain life easily,
and that does not offer the strong connection to
source that we enjoy here in the third dimension.
Enlightened, more capable and self sustaining beings,
live in the fifth dimension and above. This is just what I have noticed.
It is my conclusian or rather I am proposing through first hand experience and correlating the experiential data of others that fifth dimensional beings and above do not communicate with humans in the hope of attaining worship and or attaining ego validation. I am proposing the only entities that would do this and attempt to bask in the attentions and or adorations of worship are fourth dimensional entities that are disconnected from source.
I will explain how I think this happens.
The Tibetan Buddhists have defined a term for a newly
created entity.
The term is “tulpa”.
Tulpa’s are self-aware beings that are supposedly
created by a group of people agreeing and gathering
their energies together in a concentrated effort.
I personally would venture to guess that what was
thought to be a created being is actually a fourth
dimensional entity seeking to manifest in concert to the energies being presented.
It is my experience that no entity in the fifth dimension or above wants to be worshiped, chanted or raised up in any manner what so ever.
Freewill is valued above all else and would never be rendered impotent through the subjucation of self to a supposed higher power.
SO this brings us to the present topic at hand.
The idea that mankind is fed on by an alien race and trapped in a prison planet of sorts.
This post has ran it's course, so I will attempt to incorporate this idea of the fourth dimensional entities and the prison planet on another post.
I think that all religions based upon an outside emobdyment of divinity are inviting a form of possession
Good point....a myriad of "belief systems" imo can be deemed a form of POSSESION
I cannot really say either way about the thought tht we are being drained from alternate entities...I have no personal experience in this...however it is known that we all descending to a lower order, material breaks down...its as if we are a flower thts been cut off and left to whether away....we whether away slowly descending as entropy takes over.
How would it be if this didn't exist? How would we experience if entropy did not exist?? Knowing this is fairly obvious but knowing exactly WHY this is occurring is something all together different---however we have MANY people giving explanations to why this is so....one being that we have entities sucking us dry. It could be a law or entities actually doing it? idk
But to me it seems that we are in a vacuum where the true essence of living light/life that never breaks down is barred from us...sealed not here...Yet
ulli
19th July 2013, 18:41
Where focus goes, energy flows. I choose to send my focus to the highest, to get my batteries recharged there, and to serve only the highest agenda.
This in turn keeps me in a protective bubble.
I know about the dark agendas, the self-serving secret societies
that want to cause strife and division, and entrap people into giving them service.
But I will no longer study their antics, lest I get lost in their abyss.
Focusing on the highest gives occasional glimpses of the vastness of the Concourse on High,
the eternal realm, and infinite worlds of the Creator, which are all waiting to be explored.
But to get to them one needs to purify oneself first,
as they deny entry to anyone who might otherwise contaminate
the heaven they represent.
I started to respond to this post twice, and stopped, I was afraid I sounded confrontational and or as if I was baiting for a debate.
I don't want to enter into a sport for right or wrong, but I would like to enter a discussian in the hopes of mutal understanding. You have some excellent information in an area I do not tread in.
First off, I want to state that I do not think all possesion is apparently bad for the possessed. In some instances it appears that possesion is actually beneficial in some health related ways, I do not think it so for autonomy and or the soul, but appearances are what they are. Anyway, I do not believe so much in possesion to the extent one loses control, but rather, the taking on of a passenger who offers a service in exchange for his fee.
I'm going to make a statement that is totally controversial, and yet, I do not think it is as big a deal as one would think.
I think that all religions based upon an outside emobdyment of divinity are inviting a form of possession.
I think this possession is far more common than people think, and I think it may offer some health and paradigm stream-lining benefits.
Let me start by offering up the famous picture by Alex Grey "entities and demons drinking from the milky pool". In this picture you see a host of Gods displayed that run the gamut in terms of being deemed the most positive to the most negative, but one thing pervades them all and it is their sustinance, the milky pool of mankind's energies.
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/thireyecommunication/AlexGrey2.jpg
In the more positive aspect of this practice we see Alex Grey's piece "the magic river", and it is from my opinion showing the same thing, albeit on a more tolerable and less impactfull format.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-AnHWNCuDlW4/TWYvzgeYTfI/AAAAAAAAP8k/5peKA8TglOc/s1600/alexgrey4.jpg
As far as we humans are concerned, there are
dimensions above and beyond our normal ability to
perceive.
Organic life as the human race knows it, is locked
within the confines of the third dimension so far as I can tell.
As we develop our senses we may perceive that there is
more than the three-dimensional life we are used to.
Life can exist above and beyond the normal three
dimensional space we are used to perceiving.
Parasitic beings live in what could be termed a fourth
dimension, a place that does not sustain life easily,
and that does not offer the strong connection to
source that we enjoy here in the third dimension.
Enlightened, more capable and self sustaining beings,
live in the fifth dimension and above. This is just what I have noticed.
It is my conclusian or rather I am proposing through first hand experience and correlating the experiential data of others that fifth dimensional beings and above do not communicate with humans in the hope of attaining worship and or attaining ego validation. I am proposing the only entities that would do this and attempt to bask in the attentions and or adorations of worship are fourth dimensional entities that are disconnected from source.
I will explain how I think this happens.
The Tibetan Buddhists have defined a term for a newly
created entity.
The term is “tulpa”.
Tulpa’s are self-aware beings that are supposedly
created by a group of people agreeing and gathering
their energies together in a concentrated effort.
I personally would venture to guess that what was
thought to be a created being is actually a fourth
dimensional entity seeking to manifest in concert to the energies being presented.
It is my experience that no entity in the fifth dimension or above wants to be worshiped, chanted or raised up in any manner what so ever.
Freewill is valued above all else and would never be rendered impotent through the subjucation of self to a supposed higher power.
SO this brings us to the present topic at hand.
The idea that mankind is fed on by an alien race and trapped in a prison planet of sorts.
This post has ran it's course, so I will attempt to incorporate this idea of the fourth dimensional entities and the prison planet on another post.
I agree with everything you wrote in your post, including the 'tulpa" entity,
that comes about as a result of group worship.
I believe the nazis knew how to use this energy at Hitler rallies.
I also agree that higher beings have no need for being worshipped at all, least of all the Creator.
The whole concept of humble worship, the way it is taught in today's religions is a manipulative tool, that divides people, from God and from each other, due to it's insistence on specific dogmas. I am totally opposed to religions which are led by clergy.
But that doesn't devalue the act of worship.
Being in such a state creates the frequency vibration that the Wingmaker materials mention,
and I believe that James deliberately avoided terms like worship,
as they can be easily associated with the old religions.
High frequency beings are aligned with the dimension they want to connect with,
and in my view such a state can also be called a state of worship.
So worship is not demanded for the sake of the higher power,
but for the person's own good, as it opens up the channels.
here is the WWM quote where it mentions this issue:
There is no supplication that stirs me.
No prayer that invites me further into your world
unless it is attended with the feeling of unity and wholeness.
There is no temple or sacred object that touches me.
They do not, nor have they ever brought you closer to my outstretched hand.
My presence in your world is unalterable
for I am the sanctuary of both the cosmos
and the one soul inside you.
And a Baha'i quote:
O SON OF BEING!
Love Me, that I may love thee.
If thou lovest Me not,
My love can in no wise reach thee.
Bubu
20th July 2013, 11:35
Thanks this is something worth a closer look at. Be careful of the baited hooks.
Well u hooked me....wht do u mean, be careful of the baited hooks?
It's a very common operation by the cabal and company and also happens a lot here in avalon. It's also discuss a number of times. It's when someone present some good reliable useful information then conveniently twist or bend some truths.
read my post here
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60387--Important--Every-Human-Being-Should-Own-And-Read-This-90-Page-Book-Daily&p=697882&highlight=important+page+read#post697882
I have read the wingmakers materials years before I came to avalon. Being non english I have to read over and over to get the message, especially that of the philosophy and the HMS. There are also good info you can find at what to know info. The publisher accurately points out what changes (compromise) where made from the original WM site.
My take on this is that the WM site as originally discovered might be genuine including the defection of dr. anderson. But with the cabals capability there is a very very good chance that some new info could have been twisted .
In the philosophy section you'll find this
1) Universe relationship through gratitude
2) Observance of Source in all things
3) Nuturence of life
"The nurturence of life is the principle that an individual is in alignment with the natural expansion of intelligence inherent within all life. This is an alignment that enhances the life-energy that flows past the individual with the clear intent of gentle support. It is the action of identifying the highest motive in all energy forms and supporting the flow of this energy towards its ultimate expression. In so doing, the action is performed without judgment, analysis, or attachment to outcome. It is simply nurturing the energy that flows from all manifestations and supporting its expression of life.
This is a departure from the normal perception that nurturing support can only be granted when energy is in alignment with personal will. However, when the individual can view life as an integrated energy flowing in the expression of expanding intelligence, life is honored as an extension of Prime Creator. In this context, there is no energy that is mis-directed or unworthy of support and nurturence. While this may seem contrary to the evidence of abusive energy upon terra-earth, even energy that is laden with "evil intent" is nevertheless energy that is flowing outward in search of a higher expression."
Philosophy 1 and 2 are very good this are the baits. If you'll study carefully pilo 3 it says that we not only allow but also support evil intent. That's anti evolution to me or support the cabals intent. As I have said in my previous post evil is there for a purpose, so yes they are constructive in a way, but they are there in order for us to learn how to rid ourselves (entire humanity) of the shortcomings. In short they are not there to be supported by us but rather to be eliminated.
Thanks this is something worth a closer look at. Be careful of the baited hooks.
Well u hooked me....wht do u mean, be careful of the baited hooks?
It's a very common operation by the cabal and company and also happens a lot here in avalon. It's also discuss a number of times. It's when someone present some good reliable useful information then conveniently twist or bend some truths.
read my post here
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60387--Important--Every-Human-Being-Should-Own-And-Read-This-90-Page-Book-Daily&p=697882&highlight=important+page+read#post697882
I have read the wingmakers materials years before I came to avalon. Being non english I have to read over and over to get the message, especially that of the philosophy and the HMS. There are also good info you can find at what to know info. The publisher accurately points out what changes (compromise) where made from the original WM site.
My take on this is that the WM site as originally discovered might be genuine including the defection of dr. anderson. But with the cabals capability there is a very very good chance that some new info could have been twisted .
In the philosophy section you'll find this
1) Universe relationship through gratitude
2) Observance of Source in all things
3) Nuturence of life
"The nurturence of life is the principle that an individual is in alignment with the natural expansion of intelligence inherent within all life. This is an alignment that enhances the life-energy that flows past the individual with the clear intent of gentle support. It is the action of identifying the highest motive in all energy forms and supporting the flow of this energy towards its ultimate expression. In so doing, the action is performed without judgment, analysis, or attachment to outcome. It is simply nurturing the energy that flows from all manifestations and supporting its expression of life.
This is a departure from the normal perception that nurturing support can only be granted when energy is in alignment with personal will. However, when the individual can view life as an integrated energy flowing in the expression of expanding intelligence, life is honored as an extension of Prime Creator. In this context, there is no energy that is mis-directed or unworthy of support and nurturence. While this may seem contrary to the evidence of abusive energy upon terra-earth, even energy that is laden with "evil intent" is nevertheless energy that is flowing outward in search of a higher expression."
Philosophy 1 and 2 are very good this are the baits. If you'll study carefully pilo 3 it says that we not only allow but also support evil intent. That's anti evolution to me or support the cabals intent. As I have said in my previous post evil is there for a purpose, so yes they are constructive in a way, but they are there in order for us to learn how to rid ourselves (entire humanity) of the shortcomings. In short they are not there to be supported by us but rather to be eliminated.
Wow im glad I asked---- I have heard your view before from other people and read online, and although I have seen changes in many directions with WM material---I still will never forget the messages that resonated within my heart and also the Practice to live through the heart---evil? well I guess it is all a matter of perspective --IT ALWAYS IS for now---
Would love to see an existence where we all see in every direction getting the Whole 360 VIEW
I understand the complexity with the philosophy sections--I know English and it was a challenge for me to read! I too would read them over and over. But he (James) would state that there were many sources to learn from--art, poetry, science, philosophy, music..
The philosophy section I did not resonate with as much... im more of a visual, auditory type--so I enjoyed the art, poetry, music, stories and much more. But like I mentioned, the Practice through heart virtues is one of the best parts, to me
I mean you can not beat
APPRECIATION
COMPASSION
FORGIVENESS
HUMILITY
UNDERSTANDING
VALOR
I mean you cant beat tht!! These virtues ROCK! "TO BE A ROCK AND NOT TO ROLL" That is quite an accomplishment for anyone. You stand within your own, you cannot be swayed and pushed over...You are a rock Thankyou Led Zepp!
Also emanating these virtues from within out is magnetic :)
Thanks for your response, I know other people may feel the way u do too, but I guess to each his own :)
ulli
20th July 2013, 15:36
I went back to Philo 3 and read every single paragraph, and cannot find anything that could be considered a bait.
http://www.wingmakers.com/philosophy3.html
Maybe someone can point it out to me.
Bubu
21st July 2013, 02:49
[QUOTE=CD7;704083][QUOTE=nature;704062]Thanks this is something worth a closer look at. Be careful of the baited hooks.
I understand the complexity with the philosophy sections--I know English and it was a challenge for me to read! I too would read them over and over. But he (James) would state that there were many sources to learn from--art, poetry, science, philosophy, music..
:)
agree as I have said before words are deceptive truth can hardly be express in words, so yes music arts and others cloud be a better way to express or understand . Most of the times you only have to look or come near a person to know him. no need to utter any words.
I agree with everything you wrote in your post, including the 'tulpa" entity,
that comes about as a result of group worship.
I believe the nazis knew how to use this energy at Hitler rallies.
I have wanted to expand on this for the past couple of days, I will attempt to do so as brief as possible.
http://lytle-mythologicalallusions.wikispaces.com/file/view/Saturn_devouring_his_son/229395224/Saturn_devouring_his_son
Groupthink is an interesting phenomenon that kills
individual reasoning and personal ethical application.
It is amazing to me the commonality of group think,
the repeated insidious deeds that have been
perpetuated by those within it’s grasp who later claim
innocence of their actions as they were compelled by
the group’s desires or insecurities.
We see instances of this in small applications like
mob violence and we see large applications of this in
World War II with the genocide attacks of the Nazi
group think/government attacking the Jewish group
think/government and the Japanese group
think/government attacking the Chinese group
think/government.
I think that the largest cases of group think are that
of Governments, and when we see the movement and
decisions of such governments, they sometimes
historically make little sense, other than the
annihilation of another large body of group think.
The winner historically speaking gets to assimilate
the opposing culture, and, when we look through
history, no conquest with empirical intent was ever
truly successful unless the opposing group think was
assimilated or completely destroyed.
When I look at World War II one of the strangest out
comes to me are the alliances that formed afterward.
Why is the U.S. on completely good terms with Japan
and Germany, and yet not on such good terms with
France, Russia, The Middle East and China?
War, Peace and Mistrust
When I look at Japan and Germany, I see the complete
annihilation of their pre-World War II group think.
The contemporary Japanese and German way of group
think/government is diametrically opposed with their
World War II counterparts and in most cases shame is
expressed regarding the actions of their ancestors
who’s group think/government of yester year has been
completely atomized and replaced by the contemporary
western group think/government, and more accurately
still the U. S. group think/government.
This can be contrasted for instance with Russia, our
ally in world war II who retained their group think
and considered the U.S. group think such a threat,
both countries entered into an elongated period of
hatred and contempt who’s eruption was only kept in
check by the threat of complete annihilation of both
sides.
Western/group think bombarded the Russian group/think
with the idea of a superior life style, the
encroachment of U.S. group think saturated the
Russia/group think with an unprecedented non-violent
conquering, a non-confrontaitonal bombardment of media
established material richness and ideals.
In this instance, the major hinge was economical.
France continues to hold a disdain for the U.S., in
an attempt to hold her identity and personal
groupthink. Though similar enough in economy and
religion, the hinges in these opposing groupthinks,
seem to be the emphasis on the French sensual/language
rather than the material/power of the U.S.
Group Think/Government, a Life Form?
I don’t think the Nazi group think is dead, rather, it
has just lost it’s foot hold in our dimension as of
now, neither do I think the Japanese
Samurai,Shinto/group think is gone, rather, it too has
lost it’s foot hold.
Why do these group-think/governments carry out actions
that are so extreme and usually detrimental to the
majority of the individuals within its population?
It seems the answer is so it can expand the population
and territory of its group think/government, but why
would the individuals within any country or population
want to do this?
Skyscraper Entities
When we examine Great Britian’s middle age history,
it is easy to be misled by the magesty of the crown,
the royal head of order, the King/Queen. Further
examination gives a perspective of constant
competition between the different Royal Houses, which
were the true seats of soldier manpower, these
struggles would decide who would be at the head of
government and hold the King/Queen title.
When looking at the likelihood of a world/earth third
dimension devouring fourth dimension dwelling
parasite, I fell into the habit of the figurehead
template, wondering who was the King/Queen parasite.
The constant warring and competition of group
think/governments leads me to now think other wise.
I have formed a middle ages British royal houses view
of the matter akin to the political maneuvering that
took place in “The war of the roses” era 16th and 17th
centuries.
As an initial template, lets take the idea of 16th
century royal houses and look at the political
landscape of World War II. Let’s look at the different
countries and their political/religious governments as
entities, gigantic entities.
The Royal Houses Of Joint Tenant Manifestation
1. Germany/Nazi Group think (Parasite Superman)
2. Japan/Shinto-Samurai Group think (Parasite Samurai)
3. Jewish/Non-Assimilation-Religious Group Think
(Parasite Chosen Race)
4. U.S/Capitalistic-Christian Group Think (Parasite
Invisible Hand)
5. Britian/Capitolistic-Chrisitian Group Think
(Parasite Invisible Hand)
6. Russia/Communist-Atheist Group Think (Parasite
Utopia)
7. China/Isolationist-Ancestor Worship Group Think
(Parasite Family Entity)
8. Middle East /Islam Group Think (Parasite Allah)
When looking at these specific groupthinks, I see
entities on a grand scale.
If an ant were crawling on the enormity of a
skyscraper, he may be oblivious to the over all
structure of the skyscraper, even if he had the
intelligence and curiosity comparable to a human.
But, given enough time, the inquisitive ant may circle
and traverse the building enough times, that he gets
the idea of what the structure may look like, even
though, it is beyond his perception to ever take in a
very large portion of the structure much less the
whole monstrosity.
In this case, the skyscraper is made of ants, and they
are held together by an invisible force they are not
aware of, and who, by the way, takes painful care in
making sure his/it’s identity is never revealed.
The more ants that give away their autonomy to
contribute as building materials for the skyscraper,
the more powerfull the invisible force gets who binds them
together.
This Group Think, Royal House idea of looking at
Government Parasites, has led me to coin a phrase The
Joint Tenants.
The Joint Tenants
I don’t look at the Joint Tenants as Gods in the
human looking physical idea of what the polytheistic
pantheons of religions past have portrayed.
The Joint Tenants dwell in the fourth Dimension, and
in my mind, I see whale like ethereal entities with
multitudes of tentacles they are able to distribute
invisibly through out our dimension.
I believe the tentacles themselves have
awareness/intelligence, and are capable of projecting
specific maneuvers on the individual or individuals
they have in their custody.
Social status, accumulation of wealth, proper uniform,
living standards, these are but a few methods the
Joint Tenants employ to displace our autonomy and
coerce our participation in paying attention.
I believe the Joint Tenants to be of the same race,
i.e. I believe they have the same origination, but of
course, I am only speculating on this as just about
everything else I have said so far.
Contemporary Conflict Examples
I mentioned some parasite entities in the World War
II era. I would like to build on that.
Parasite Invisible Hand VS Parasite Allah
(The modern day crusade)
The Western conflicts with the Middle East almost all
stem from the Parasite Invisible Hand -Joint Tenant
who felt compelled to control the land where his Joint
Tenant birth took place in the third dimension, Israel
or Palestine.
Parasite Invisible Hand has had a desire to show
superiority over Parasite Allah for about fifteen
hundred years in the form of various Crusades, to
control a piece of land highly valued in it’s
association to human psyche and religious birth.
The successful introduction of capitalism into The
Chosen People Parasite (Israel) has caused an
acknowledged bond that links the two distinctly
separate individual Joint Tenants into mutually
beneficial cooperating entities.
The Invisible Hand Parasite (U.S./Great Britian) chose
then to subjugate the Palestinian people within the
Allah Parasite on the land of its birth into this
dimension, Israel.
The Invisible Hand did this through a tricky maneuver
he felt would leave him without confrontation by
placing The Chosen People Parasite into position to do
the subjugation for him.
This did not work out as planned, for the humans known
as Palestinians have held fastly to their connection
to the Allah Parasite and have refused to be
assimilated into The Chosen People/Invisible Hand
Parasite.
This has proved to be a rallying point to all the
peoples across the Middle East who are Allah Parasite
devotees.
A Common Bond
The Allah Parasite Joint Tenant has conditioned his
followers to resist assimilation at all costs, and
that death would be preferable, in the forced event of
a rival, Joint Tenant, forcing assimilation upon the
masses.
The Invisible Hand Parasite culture has been forbidden
to the Allah Parasite Joint Tenant people, especially
the projected mind control methods of TV and movie
theatres that were so successful in assimilating the Parasite
Utopia Joint Tenant (Russia) people.
Television and movies are masterful techniques
employed by The Invisible Hand Parasite at persuading
the young to forsake the Allah Parasite Joint Tenant
connection, if the young were allowed to partake of
this it would probably work for the U.S.-Great
Britian/Group as an effective reeducation tool, as it
was used on The Parasite Utopia Joint Tenant (Russia).
The Allah parasite has conditioned its followers to
the dangers of television and movies all but outlawing
them within the culture Islam in the Middle East.
This succusful blockading of the non-confrontational
conversion tool has been a useful tactic for the Allah
Parasite. So useful in fact that the The Invisible
Hand Parasite has grown weary of the defense tactics
employed by the Allah Parasite and placed human
military bases in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and now Iraq
for operation subjugation all through the Middle East.
Ossama Bin Laden, a favorite mouth piece for the Allah
Parasite has stated in a interview two years before
the attack on the twin towers that an offensive would
be taken if the U.S. Invisible Hand Parasite didn’t
remove it’s military bases from then Saudi Arabia and
Kuwait. The attack on the twin towers orchestrated by
Ossama Bin Laden and the Allah Parasite were voiced
objections to the military bases in the Middle East.
The Invisible Hand Parasite of the United States and
Great Britain has responded by attacking two large
sections of The Allah Parasite’s kingdom, Afghanistan
and now Iraq and is attempting to institute capitalism
and democracy which of course are the precursors to
the Invisible Hand Parasite extending it’s influence
and bringing the Middle East under it’s power and
rule.
The actions the Invisible Hand Parasite take against
the Allah Parasite, are taken as threatening by the
remaining Joint Tenants of the fourth dimensionaly
ruled third dimensional earth. This is especially
threatening to those that survive by isolationism and
defense only, as the China Parasite and the North
Korean Parasite do.
This Joint Tenant war that is now being fought can
only result in the complete removal of one of the
rivals from the third dimension and the subjugation of
it’s peoples, much like the end result of World War II
and the defeat of Japan’s Samurai Parasite and
Germany’s Superman Parasite.
As a last note, and I don't know if this really adds anything, I have always felt there were similiarities to Germany's WWII Groupthink and that of the Roman Empire in it's glory years. I have always wondered if in fact world war II was in fact a comeback attempt by this entity ancient roman religion entity into our world and nazi Germany.
I'm going to include a Tool video here, it kind of gives a decent abstract visual to what I am talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb88usOBud0
charlesgilbertwright
23rd July 2013, 12:32
meanwhile, Greg Valdez published DULCE BASE and says it will be available soon.
http://www.dulcebasebook.com/
-----------------------
still working my way through the 23 questions with James of WINGMAKERS.
It is settling in, and I really like his thoughts.
----------------------
yesterday I listened to James Rinks regression session with James-Michael Casbolt-Prince post shot to the head episode in the parking lot of the Marriett in San Antonio, Texas.
http://supersoldiertalk.com/2013/07/21/super-soldier-talk-michael-prince-dodging-bullets-bolshevik-reptilians-july-18-2013/#comment-904
-------------------------------
and am also watching Dr. Judy Wood break us through the group think mind control we were all subjected to on September 11, 2001
Dr. Judy Wood Breakthrough Energy Movement Nov 8 and 9 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2euEY4oEAs
-------------------------------------------
also working my through John Urwin's book THE SIXTEEN
his interview on the youtube megawatts1066 channel is excellent, describing what can only be a non-human who trained him using the One Step Beyond method.
----------------------------------------------
the other book that I am gradually working my way through is Scott Mandelker's UNIVERSAL VISION, SOUL EVOLUTION AND THE COSMIC PLAN
------------------------------------------
there is so much going on right now
sometimes it is difficult to stay focused
sometimes it is difficult to stay focused
....especially since you are putting so much in you right now---
charlesgilbertwright
11th August 2013, 20:58
The following email from Michael Wisotzke who chairs the monthly meetings is important.
I attended many of these meetings while living in Rio Rancho and Albuquerque.
Norio Hyakawa lived close by in Rio Rancho at the same time. Norio knows Gabe Valdez, Anthony Sanchez, etc.
I am looking forward to reading Greg Valdez's book.
-------------------------------------
One needs to ask about the credibility of:
1- the retired USAF officer's story given to Anthony Sanchez as told in UFO HIGHWAY.
2- as well as the story that has become the WINGMAKERS.
Were the two seeded by the USAF?
-------------------------------------
The New Mexico UFO and Paranormal Forum will be held on Saturday, August 17, from 1:15 p.m. to 3 p.m. at Manzano Mesa Multigenerational Center (Room 5) at 501 Elizabeth St., SE, Albuquerque, NM 87123. Applebees after of course.
Admission: FREE
Guest Speaker:
Greg Valdez, author of
DULCE BASE: THE TRUTH AND EVIDENCE FROM THE FILES OF GABE VALDEZ.
It is not based on imagination or sensationalism but is based on reality.
The conclusion is astounding and is most likely not what you think.
It tears down your pre-conceived notion of this important topic.
Yes, finally you will get the true story and evidence behind the mysteries surrounding Dulce, New Mexico.
See what and who is behind the cattle mutilations and the alleged underground "alien" base in Dulce.
You will also hear the story of Paul Bennewitz and see what really happened on the Jicarilla Apache Reservation.
For the first time, you will see secrets that the government does not want you to know.
It is an amazing true story of a State Patrol officer's relentless pursuit of a CIA-funded/operated, remotely located, off-site 'aircraft' test facilty, hidden behind a veil of government-concocted convenient "alien base" story and how a series of mysterious cattle mutilations may fit into this scenario, with military implications.
In 1976, Gabe Valdez became one of the leading investigators into the cattle mutilation mystery that was spreading across the United States.
As he started investigating the mutilations on the Gomez ranch outside of Dulce, New Mexico, he stumbled into much more than he bargained for.
His investigative findings led to a close relationship with Paul Bennewitz who was involved in a massive government-authorized disinformation campaign originating out of Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
The harrowing tale of Paul Bennewitz led to the story of the alleged underground "alien" base near Dulce, New Mexico.
The true story is full of plot twists that were intentionally created by Air Force Intelligence and other clandestine Intelligence agencies associated with the United States Government.
This book will separate fact from fiction and you will finally be able to see the truth.
Was there a strange pattern of deception and mind-control programs in and around Dulce, New Mexico?
Were CIA, NSA, Los Alamos Labs and the Air Force participants in this?
Was Robert Bigelow's National Institute of Discovery Sciences (NIDS) really involved in the full investigations of the Redding Ranch, just north of Mt. Archuleta on the Colorado side?
Were NIDS and Bigelow Aerospace funded as a black budget CIA project to prevent scrutiny and accountability?
READ ABOUT IT ALL IN THIS REVEALING BOOK!!
Greg Valdez is the middle son of Gabe Valdez.
He followed a career in law enforcement like his father (he also became a State Patrol officer) and has been involved in this mystery all of his life as he accompanied Gabe on many of his investigations while he was growing up in Dulce.
Greg will be putting out a website regarding this important work, a documentary legacy of his father, the late Gabe Valdez.
The website (presently under construction) will be www.dulcebasebook.com
He will have his books available at the meeting.
You can also get additional information on YouTube at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLkTsdwYiyw
Please visit our websites- truthseekerforum.com and nmupf.blogspot.com/
"For reality is not what it seems".
P
CD7
11th August 2013, 21:08
One needs to ask about the credibility of:
1- the retired USAF officer's story given to Anthony Sanchez as told in UFO HIGHWAY.
2- as well as the story that has become the WINGMAKERS.
Were the two seeded by the USAF?
Id be curious to see what type of connections would be made from the two? I cant make the conference...I suppose there will be information after august 17? If more details in the video my apology about to look up now...
Ok just watched the video about Dulce base which did not give much information aside from finding out the 'real' truth about it....
From this point I don't see any connections about dulce base that would even remotely remind me of wingmakers...however like I said I would be curious
Belle
12th August 2013, 10:37
Just wanted to mention that the original Wingmakers material (prior to James) can be found here: http://www.wingmakers.us/
Conchis
12th August 2013, 12:16
On the point about the invitation to possession....I read once, and it always stuck with me, that most ceremonies (marriage, church, pagan, etc.) consist of 4 parts. A cleansing and dedication of the space for a purpose, an invocation (an inviting of the divine to participate) and evocation (the physical manifestation of the divine that results from the invocation) and a benediction, a re-cleansing of the space. It seems that controlled possession has been the goal of some groups for a long long time.
CD7
12th August 2013, 12:38
Special Note: The above is a copy of the introduction page to the original WingMakers website introducing the Ancient Arrow Project. Should you choose to explore the current WingMakers website at wingmakers.com, please be aware that the it has changed in many ways from its original form. The WingMakers story there has been seriously distorted to the point of being disinformation. For further information on how the website has been changed and distorted, click here
I really don't grasp why this statement is saying this...it will take time to go through this website (and ill definitely relate my perspective)
Thanks for making me aware of it..im not familiar with the original website. However if content is changed or added that DOES NOT necessarily mean its bad...
We as human beings alter and change all the time and if we were to read a chapter in someone's life 20 years ago and then read them today---it would be completely different. Even from the time of 2005-2012 the wingmaker site has morphed and changed into different directions all the while keeping the focus on BECOMING SOVEREIGN and living through the heart. This underlining message trumps any changing details in a STORY. It is meant to be told as a story..as fiction, with threads of truth weaved inbetween.
Delight
12th August 2013, 15:14
[QUOTE]
We as human beings alter and change all the time and if we were to read a chapter in someone's life 20 years ago and then read them today---it would be completely different. Even from the time of 2005-2012 the wingmaker site has morphed and changed into different directions all the while keeping the focus on BECOMING SOVEREIGN and living through the heart. This underlining message trumps any changing details in a STORY. It is meant to be told as a story..as fiction, with threads of truth weaved inbetween.
CD7... I think you have touched on something SO important! Thanks!!
CD7
14th August 2013, 01:25
Special Note: The above is a copy of the introduction page to the original WingMakers website introducing the Ancient Arrow Project. Should you choose to explore the current WingMakers website at wingmakers.com, please be aware that the it has changed in many ways from its original form. The WingMakers story there has been seriously distorted to the point of being disinformation. For further information on how the website has been changed and distorted, click here
I really don't grasp why this statement is saying this...it will take time to go through this website (and ill definitely relate my perspective)
Thanks for making me aware of it..im not familiar with the original website. However if content is changed or added that DOES NOT necessarily mean its bad...
WOW Interesting....and very much so, as I am familiar with some of the individuals who helped write and edit content for the more up to date wingmaker website. So this is different for me as I read this persons version of what they thought of the material changing...( I may add the changes are dates and names which are NOT important to the central message. ) Also stating that there is some type of negative agenda is hard for me to take as I said I met Jonh and Darlene Burgess who later on contributed more and more to the wingmaker website.
I can tell you they were very genuine in trying to be apart of something that would Benefit humanity and themselves...did they work for some secret military org? I don't know? John Berges has written a number of books one being this:
Sacred Vessel of the Mysteries: The Great Invocation, Word of Power, Gift of Love Paperback by
John Berges (Author)
This was there publishing co.--
http://planetworkpress.com/pwpcart/index.php
Now when u go onto planet works press, I will say that the wm materials do seem to be marketed a lot more now then in the past and this was something that this person mentioned in the disclaimer...
however to insinuate negativity based on storyline changes or deceitful intent when later on the main focus was behavioral intelligence and living through your heart? Whatever...:rolleyes:
John Berges passed away about 2 years ago from cancer, so it is unclear whos all involved in the writing and editing process now? (in addition to James)
charlesgilbertwright
2nd September 2013, 18:17
Norio Hayakawa has this to say about Gabe Valdez'a sons new book:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbUYExRmz-w&feature=em-uploademail
DULCE BASE, the real truth behind the alien base rumors
The point he makes is the fact of the seeding of disinformation by the good ole air force.....
So once again, was there seeding of disinformation by the air force
into the
WINGMAKERS
and
UFO HIGHWAY story
the tangential flow of discussion to my first post is an education of being side tracked, is it not?
or being buried in non related talk...................................................................gulp......................... ......................
CD7
3rd September 2013, 00:57
the tangential flow of discussion to my first post is an education of being side tracked, is it not?
or being buried in non related talk.............................................. .....................gulp......................... ......................
Non-related talk...your referring to posts here in this thread?
If this is the direction you were going with this...I suppose then no one has any credible evidence/experience to suggest what you are say in relation to the wingmakers....
I have offered you as much as I know and am aware at this point from personal experience....
I truly do not gather my information from the internet...so to delve into this and try to gather evidence and corroborate links to wingmakers/dulce base/air force is not something I would engage in....
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