Request for healing and medical advice.

[Eram]

Dear Avalonians,

Since three weeks, I have an inflammation in and around my left knee which I don't seem to get control of no matter what I try.
It is not the first time that a knee gets an inflammation.
Three years ago, it was my right knee and it lasted for seven months before the inflammation and swellings where completely gone.
Lots of tissue was damaged and even today I can't run or play soccer with my son.

For now, I have taken the following steps to deal with this inflammation, but with no success so far:

3 x 400 mg ibuprofen a day
4 x voltaren emulgel a day (an anti inflammatory cream)
borax (anti arthritis)
high doses of turmeric
high doses of vitamin D3 (3000 IU)
high doses of liposomal vitamin C
6 grams of MSM a day
1 gram of baking soda a day (to help for a body less acidic)



Nothing seems to work and it shows all the signs of a long term inflammation, just like three years ago.
With our bed and breakfast in high season, quite a discomfort for our family.

Not keen on having a shot with steroids in the knee, because three years ago, two days after such a shot, I got a deep vein thrombosis in that leg for which I had to visit the hospital for 12 days and 2 years of wearing a compression stocking.

Maybe (Hopefully), with a combined healing effort from all you wonderful people, this inflammation can be dealt with :)
I would deeply appreciate your efforts.

further,
If any of you has any advice on medical grounds, please let me know.
Especially if you have any idea what sort of healer I should seek for help.

[ThePythonicCow]

Dear Avalonians,

Since three weeks, I have an inflammation in and around my left knee which I don't seem to get control of no matter what I try.
It is not the first time that a knee gets an inflammation.
If that were me, I'd be keen to

minimize the use of Ibuprofen and Emulgel, which might slow healing,
be sure I had plenty of Omega 3 fats (ideal ratio is 1:1 with Omega 6),
be sure I had enough sulfur nutrients (possible sources: Willard's water, Chondroitin, glucosamine, methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) and S-adenosyl-L-methionine (SAMe)), and
be sure I had enough Vitamin C (I consume 5 to 10 grams a day, up to bowel tolerance).

[GarethBKK]

Hi Eram,

Sorry to hear this, although I will continue to see you as perfect ;-)

I suggest a chiropractor who is familiar with a range of natural remedies. I had a pelvis injury some years ago, and my chiropractor not only rectified the problem but had juice recipes ready to combat the inflammation. I don't have the recipes now, but I remember there was a lot of fresh pineapple involved. I didn't have the option of drugs due to allergies. All the best.

[Eram]

Dear Avalonians,

Since three weeks, I have an inflammation in and around my left knee which I don't seem to get control of no matter what I try.
It is not the first time that a knee gets an inflammation.
If that were me, I'd be keen to

minimize the use of Ibuprofen and Emulgel, which might slow healing,
be sure I had plenty of Omega 3 fats (ideal ration is 1:1 with Omega 6)
be sure I had enough sulfur nutrients (possible sources: Willard's water, Chondroitin, glucosamine, methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) and S-adenosyl-L-methionine (SAMe)), and
be sure I had enough Vitamin C (I consume 5 to 10 grams a day, up to bowel tolerance).


Thanks Paul,

Are you sure about the ibuprofen and Emulgel?
They are said to slow or stop inflammation. (confused)

High doses Omega 3 (forgot to mention), MSM and high doses vitamin C (liposomal) already in the mix :)

5 to 10 grams a day of vitamin C though, isn't that a bit overkill?
I take 2 or 3 shot glasses a day of a liposomal ascorbic acid/baking soda mix with 1 tablespoon of AA in 12 ounces of water.
3 shots = +/- 1,5 ounce
no idea really how many grams of AA is in one tablespoon.


Hi Eram,

Sorry to hear this, although I will continue to see you as perfect ;-)

I suggest a chiropractor who is familiar with a range of natural remedies. I had a pelvis injury some years ago, and my chiropractor not only rectified the problem but had juice recipes ready to combat the inflammation. I don't have the recipes now, but I remember there was a lot of fresh pineapple involved. I didn't have the option of drugs due to allergies. All the best.

Thank you too Gareth,

There is perfection in everything indeed and after 25 years of knee problems (of and on of course), I finally am beginning to learn what these problems are trying to tell me ;)
I'm quite stubborn in resisting reality in a specific way.... learning how to surrender to in now for the first time in my life.

I will keep the chiropractor in mind and will buy me some fresh pineapple (http://www.livestrong.com/article/457385-pineapple-juice-inflammation/).
Apparently it is bromelain in pineapples that gives the fruit its anti-inflammatory properties.

[ThePythonicCow]

Are you sure about the ibuprofen and Emulgel?
They are said to slow or stop inflammation. (confused)
I'm not sure about any of this :).

I routinely have to experiment with such adjustments in nutrition myself, and don't always get it right.

Yes, I can well imagine that ibuprofen and Emulgel reduce inflammation, and could be quite desirable on that account. I was working on a hunch that after a point, the reduction in inflammation, while most welcome, could also slow healing, not speed it.

I could easily be very wrong.

[Sunny-side-up]

Hi Eram All the above remedies seem very good

I was just wondering how did you first get the problem? what did you do? Because that can help give clues to remedies and of cause clues to you of what not to do it again...

Good luck, hope ya knee gets better real soon

[Tony]

Dear Avalonians,

Since three weeks, I have an inflammation in and around my left knee which I don't seem to get control of no matter what I try.
It is not the first time that a knee gets an inflammation.
Three years ago, it was my right knee and it lasted for seven months before the inflammation and swellings where completely gone.
Lots of tissue was damaged and even today I can't run or play soccer with my son.

For now, I have taken the following steps to deal with this inflammation, but with no success so far:

3 x 400 mg ibuprofen a day
4 x voltaren emulgel a day (an anti inflammatory cream)
borax (anti arthritis)
high doses of turmeric
high doses of vitamin D3 (3000 IU)
high doses of liposomal vitamin C
6 grams of MSM a day
1 gram of baking soda a day (to help for a body less acidic)



Nothing seems to work and it shows all the signs of a long term inflammation, just like three years ago.
With our bed and breakfast in high season, quite a discomfort for our family.

Not keen on having a shot with steroids in the knee, because three years ago, two days after such a shot, I got a deep vein thrombosis in that leg for which I had to visit the hospital for 12 days and 2 years of wearing a compression stocking.

Maybe (Hopefully), with a combined healing effort from all you wonderful people, this inflammation can be dealt with :)
I would deeply appreciate your efforts.

further,
If any of you has any advice on medical grounds, please let me know.
Especially if you have any idea what sort of healer I should seek for help.




Hello Eram,

This will sound cranky but it is worth checking out.
As well as diet look at earthing the body!
The 'Tour de France' teams use it to reduce inflammation...
26HphzJmWKU


Also check here:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/06/06/eft-on-chronic-inflammation.aspx


Tony

[Swan]

Hi Eram,



My advice is to stop Dairy and Wheat, and go raw for a month...if you are motivated do the Dr Schulze 4week detox.

[araucaria]

Hi Eram
I think (here in France at least) the normal mainstream treatment for this kind of thing would probably be a cortisone injection. I once had one for tennis elbow and it seemed to do the trick.

[ulli]

Piascledine
There is a natural remedy which has avocado and soybean extract called Piascledine...
check the Wikipedia page.
One per day, with food, long term, at least three months.
Stay with the Ibuprofen or you might not be able to bear the pain.
But also have an X ray done, at least, or an arthroscopy, for further diagnosis.

My husband recently treated a 78-year old woman who could no longer walk,
because the severe inflammation in her knee.
and by the time she came to him was on the verge of surgery.

Within a week of taking the Piascledine she was dancing, according to her.

[Lifebringer]

I believe he said "he can no longer play socker w/his son." Atheletes wear and tear perhaps. Epsome salts take swelling and relieve pain as well other uses. Try soaking a hot towel with Epsom wrap the knee with it, and see how that works on those irritating days of discomfort. Elders swear by it, and my daughter who stands on her feet all night, comes home with swollen feet and pain. After she used it, "Mom had to make it for her" it worked, and no more problems.:eyebrows:

[ulli]

Hi Eram
I think (here in France at least) the normal mainstream treatment for this kind of thing would probably be a cortisone injection. I once had one for tennis elbow and it seemed to do the trick.

If he has arthrosis then cortisone would make it worse.

Tennis elbow is different, and would benefit from a cortisone injection.

Proper diagnosis is probably the most important procedure at this point.

[araucaria]

Proper diagnosis is probably the most important procedure at this point.

This is correct. You can only get cortisone from a doctor, who would of course make sure he knew what you don't have as well as what you do. A forum thread is no replacement for that.

[Christine]

Dear Avalonians,

Since three weeks, I have an inflammation in and around my left knee which I don't seem to get control of no matter what I try.
It is not the first time that a knee gets an inflammation.
Three years ago, it was my right knee and it lasted for seven months before the inflammation and swellings where completely gone.
Lots of tissue was damaged and even today I can't run or play soccer with my son.

For now, I have taken the following steps to deal with this inflammation, but with no success so far:

3 x 400 mg ibuprofen a day
4 x voltaren emulgel a day (an anti inflammatory cream)
borax (anti arthritis)
high doses of turmeric
high doses of vitamin D3 (3000 IU)
high doses of liposomal vitamin C
6 grams of MSM a day
1 gram of baking soda a day (to help for a body less acidic)



Nothing seems to work and it shows all the signs of a long term inflammation, just like three years ago.
With our bed and breakfast in high season, quite a discomfort for our family.

Not keen on having a shot with steroids in the knee, because three years ago, two days after such a shot, I got a deep vein thrombosis in that leg for which I had to visit the hospital for 12 days and 2 years of wearing a compression stocking.

Maybe (Hopefully), with a combined healing effort from all you wonderful people, this inflammation can be dealt with :)
I would deeply appreciate your efforts.

further,
If any of you has any advice on medical grounds, please let me know.
Especially if you have any idea what sort of healer I should seek for help.

Hi Eram,

I worked for two years in a supplement store and found this product (http://www.vibranthealth.us/joint-vibrance/product-pages/joint-vibrance) to be amazingly beneficial for inflamed and compromised joints. It is the most complete formula I have found and over and over again proved highly effective in reducing inflammation and supplying the body with the supplements it needs to rebuild cartilage (quite often the culprit in reoccurring joint pain). In addition supplement with Silica and Omega -3 (look for a high quality fish oil and take at least 4 mg of EPA a day, clinical studies that proved effective were run at this dosage.

Here is a couple of testimonials. (I could add many more, as time after time I had customers return to me with gratitude for recommending this product, I only did so because it worked.)

I too have suffered from what you describe, specifically in my right knee which would suddenly become so painful and swollen I could not put in weight on it at all. I actually had almost instant relief from a good acupuncturist (highly recommended!). And long term rebuilding of knee cartilage was accomplished with Joint Vibrance.

Another testimony comes from a co-worker friend who was suffering from a very similar pain description as yourself. She was reaching the stage where she was even thinking about going on disability because standing was too painful. After two months on Joint Vibrance her pain subsided completely, she returned to doing her intense Buddha practice of one hundred prostrations every morning, she is 65 years old.

If you can handle cinnamon buy the powder, it doesn't mix well with liquids because of the collagen so a shaker cup is recommended. Take the full dose for at least two months... if you are greatly improved go to half dose and continue for six months to one year. If I have occasional flare ups I go back on it at half dose for a couple of months. But honestly my knees are so recovered that I am pain free.

And do try acupuncture. And do NOT get a steroid shot, it is a sure way to get out of immediate pain but over the long haul you will do more damage than good. I also agree with Paul about the ibuprofen and voltaren. They are synthetic and anti ethical to the body so again produce an overall deletory effect to your bodies own defense system.

Here are two natural products that work with the body, reducing pain and inflammation, one topical (http://www.vitacost.com/peaceful-mountain-joint-rescue-gel) and the other internal (http://www.bluemountainrx.com/boswellia.htm).

Good luck and glad you asked for help.

Christine

[gracieuse]

Indeed, earthing, I've just started earthing and problems are being cured in my body that have been persistent and not responsing to any other remedy. You can look at earthing product.

Make sure to walk barefoot outside, or just at least 15 minutes of your feet touching the earth every day... and not just earthing is important, but being outside as much as you can in nature, helps your body so much to get in balance...

Ginger is anti-inflammatory, as well as (homemade, not store bought) kefir, I have some grains I could send them through the mail.

Also: urine therapy, start building up with drinking your morning urine, and apply packs of fermented urine (I know, it sounds disgusting, but it works... and urine is not a waste product, there's a whole thread about it here on avalon, and many books).

Be aware that the high doses of vitamin D3 might be causing problems, take sunbaths instead.

INcrease your intake of organic flax seed oil, especially combined with quark (check the Budwig diet).


These are the things that are helping me in my quest for healing from internal inflammations. I have chosen to put medication aside and look for true healing, the medicines merely suppress the symptoms and not the underlying causes.

It might also be worth checking your diet, do you have enough live foods (raw and fermented) in your diet? and do you eat in the right combinations (eg. no protein + starch) and in the right times? i posted a comment on this in the thread "the gut of most disease, not what you think"

In my own case, I've found that I had to do a lot of inner work, emotional healing... which I was eating away with sugary foods, which were only making me more sick. Fried foods, salty foods and sweet foods, especially refined sugar, trigger my inflammation a lot!

Feel better soon!!!

[Christine]

Time and time again I have found that "western" medical practice does not have the necessary education to provide good medicine, indeed their pharmacopeia is reduced to pharmaceutical prescription drugs and invasive procedures.

So choose your physician (ORIGIN Middle English: from Old French fisicien, based on Latin physica ‘things relating to nature’) carefully... cortisone in my opinion is a leading cause of further immunological deterioration and should only be used when all else fails.

The body has it's own inner knowingness and if properly listened to will direct it's own cure.





Proper diagnosis is probably the most important procedure at this point.

This is correct. You can only get cortisone from a doctor, who would of course make sure he knew what you don't have as well as what you do. A forum thread is no replacement for that.

[ulli]

Eram, here is another thing you could try and which would not harm in any way.
Take a pound of table salt, maybe sea salt,
place it in a 100% cotton bag, like a pillow case, tie a knot so the salt can't spill out.
Place the bag in a microwave oven for three minutes until it is as hot as you can bear it, and place that on your knee for 20 minutes.
The hot salt will radiate waves deep into the tissues inside your knee and trigger your body to heal itself.
The pain reduction factor is also really amazing.

[Heartsong]

I had a hot and swollen knee for over a month. My conventional doctor said to use an ice pack on it for 14 days for 20 minutes a day. "If you miss a day, you start the 14 days all over."
I have rheumatoid arthritis and take methotrexate and plaquinil as a routine. These didn't reach it. Putting ice packs on the knee worked.

[donk]

Glad it looks like your are getting a lot of good advice, I'm sure you will get where you need to be. I'm sorry for what you are going through and hope you get better soon. Much love, phil

[araucaria]

Time and time again I have found that "western" medical practice does not have the necessary education to provide good medicine, indeed their pharmacopeia is reduced to pharmaceutical prescription drugs and invasive procedures.

Yes, Christine, cortisone is a last-gasp procedure.

In my recent experience of mainstream medicine, I had no invasive diagnosis procedures beyond a few blood tests, and the treatment turned out to be zero medication. If on the other hand I had submitted my case to forum members in a thread like this, I would have been gratified with suggestions from wonderful people who don't know me personally for liver flushes, MMS, cider vinegar (acid), baking soda (alkaline) and much much more, any one of which would have been more than required to do the job :)

Whatever the current drawbacks of mainstream medical techniques, highly trained physicians applying established practices are still the way to go, although they of course need to be taught some of the more revolutionary methods that are being held back by big pharma.

[Christine]

Thank you too Gareth,

There is perfection in everything indeed and after 25 years of knee problems (of and on of course), I finally am beginning to learn what these problems are trying to tell me ;)
I'm quite stubborn in resisting reality in a specific way.... learning how to surrender to in now for the first time in my life.

I will keep the chiropractor in mind and will buy me some fresh pineapple (http://www.livestrong.com/article/457385-pineapple-juice-inflammation/).
Apparently it is bromelain in pineapples that gives the fruit its anti-inflammatory properties.

Remember to eat the core where most of the bromelain is stored. Here is another fantastic product (http://www.amazon.com/Wobenzym-Enteric-Coated-800-Count-Bottle/dp/B0015G89SS/ref=cm_lmf_tit_1) for reducing inflammation.... proteolytic enzyme therapy.

[Eram]

Wauw!!!

thank you all wonderful people.

It is really heart warming to read all the advice an the energy that you've put into your posts.

Lots of recommendations that I would have never found without this thread:

salt pack in microwave (will certainly try that)
urine therapy (maybe, just maybe I will try the homeopathic (potentiated) version of that ;))
joint vibrance
piascledine
epsom salt wrap


Sunny-side-up had a question that might be useful to address:



I was just wondering how did you first get the problem? what did you do? Because that can help give clues to remedies and of cause clues to you of what not to do it again...

Well,
I did fall out of my bed (high sleeper) when I was about nine or ten years old and landed on my knees.
In the aftermath of the divorce of my parents, which I suppressed emotionally.
Maybe this is what lies at the root of it all? Physical injury combined with unresolved emotional issues?
Anyway... later on from age fifteen on, there have been mysterious problems with a knee now and then, mostly with years in between.
Only from three years back, the problems turned to serious inflammations. This is now the second time that a knee gets inflamed.

This particular time however, it started with an overall sensitivity to inflammations.
First, my wrist (very painful) for a week and after that my elbow.
Then the knee started acting up, together with my left wrist.
The wrist healed after 2 days, but the knee got worse and worse up to where we now are:
Swollen, and inflamed, not much pain (weird... the other knee three years back was relatively painless too).

Also, it seems that the tendons get inflamed one by one too, which reduces the attached muscle to 1/3 to 1/4th of its original size in one or two days.
The inflammations of the tendons work their way around the leg, so it starts with one tendon and muscle reduction and then the adjacent one, until all the tendons have been effected and severely swollen.

Every morning I wake up with a knee that feels almost fine again and the swellings seem to have gone almost and later in the day the swellings return and the activity in the inflamed sections too.
Strangely this doesn't seems to be related to body activity (walking etc), because when I just lay down for a full day and give the knee all the rest, the swelling and inflammation still increases during the day.
I read the other day about a day and night rhythm, where the body stores acid in the organs and other tissue between 11am and 3am and releases those acids (urine acids) between 3am and 11am into the bloodstream.
This seems to be a 100% parallel in my increasing and decreasing of the inflammations/swellings in the knee, so I have been thinking about a acidity problem in my body.

-----

About the cortisone (steroid) injections:
I will not do that because I had one in the right knee (without my permission, I was under the impression that the doctor was taking fluids out of my knee for pain relief) and immediately after that I had a major intuitive pulse that said everything was not alright.
Two days later, I got a deep vein thromboses... :(


----

I had a feeling that you might be suggesting the Dr Schulze 4week detox Swan :P
I'm afraid it is about time to give it a try, though I'm not looking forward to stay away from my comfort food for so long.


cinnamon ( I have a capsule maker, so no difficulty to ingest it), acupuncture, earthing, ginger,ice pack etc.... I will look into them all and see what fits.


thanks again and all distant healing is still welcome.

[Eram]

Thank you too Gareth,

There is perfection in everything indeed and after 25 years of knee problems (of and on of course), I finally am beginning to learn what these problems are trying to tell me ;)
I'm quite stubborn in resisting reality in a specific way.... learning how to surrender to in now for the first time in my life.

I will keep the chiropractor in mind and will buy me some fresh pineapple (http://www.livestrong.com/article/457385-pineapple-juice-inflammation/).
Apparently it is bromelain in pineapples that gives the fruit its anti-inflammatory properties.

Remember to eat the core where most of the bromelain is stored. Here is another fantastic product (http://www.amazon.com/Wobenzym-Enteric-Coated-800-Count-Bottle/dp/B0015G89SS/ref=cm_lmf_tit_1) for reducing inflammation.... proteolytic enzyme therapy.

ohh Christine,


I got me a pineapple this afternoon and just threw away the chore (10 minutes ago).

better next time :)

[araucaria]

No one has mentioned past-life regression - maybe you were a medieval man of prayer? :)

Best wishes with this Eram, it must be extremely debilitating for you.

[sleepy]

xxxxx xxxxx

[meat suit]

Eram my friend, really sorry to hear about your trouble...
cant think of anything that hasnt been suggested above... I take it, you mean mms not msm..?
hopefully you get better soon!

meat

[skippy]

I wish you a quick recovery my dear friend Eram.

[cloud9]

Hello there,
just as an observation... you say that you are taking high doses of vitamin D3 but 3000IU is not high enough. If you want to try this route which I believe is a good one, you need to take somewhere between 30.000 - 50.000 IU and even higher, the trick is to take vitamin K at the same time because if you don't you would have problems with calcium. You'll see permanent results after several months if you persist.

These are the amazon links for the brand names I use. The ratio for these two are one pill of super k for every 10.000 IU of D3. I recommend to read books about it, it can cure you but it takes time.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004GW4S0G/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0032BH76O/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i03?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Regarding the emotional part of knee problems, many are related to pride and lack of humility, more or less when somebody doesn't accept a situation and he doesn't want to bend his knees or kneel down. Just as an example, one of my brothers was starting a business and after months of much struggle he had to give up but he never really gave up his business in his heart, just the physical real world part of it, after some time he started having knee problems.

[ThePythonicCow]

I take it, you mean mms not msm..?
He probably meant methylsulfonylmethane (MSM), not Miracle Mineral Solution (MMS) :).

[Houman]

Sauna + Bikram Yoga + Tissues and bone (Dr Christopher) + Deep Tissue (Dr Schulze)

[seko]

Have you tried putting your leg(just below your knee) in a bucket with ice water(very cold), everyday for 1 minute and rest 3 minutes (repeat that 6 times) You can do that until the swollen knee has gone.

You can try Lymphatic Drainage as well.

Some MMS for getting rid of excess bacteria.

You can put some clay (add some water and it looks like mud) on your knee, wrap around with newspaper and then a bandage on top of it. Have it on all night and clean it in the morning . It helps to get your knee back to normal.

Hope you can get better and tell us about it later on.

[Anchor]

Eram,

Two things come to mine:

1)
Please read and re-read the labels that come with Voltaren, and Ibuprofen.

These drugs do work, but there are factors and risks to consider; in particular to your bloods clotting power.

2)

I would like to offer some words about healing.

Healing most things like this requires you look into the metaphysical root cause of the problem.

In my experience minor things like twisted ankles or aches and pains are usually pretty robust signs from the universe that you have not been attending to certain matters that deep down you know, but set aside on account of the value system that your ego has constructed for you.

There is a good chance for example, that the indicator here is to slow down, and if you dont, then the universe will make you. This is obviously pure speculation. Its a particularly aggravating thing to suffer catalyst like this, but catalyst it is, and change will be caused. One cannot simply "kick against the pricks" and not suffer even more.

Yes drugs can work - unless your higher self, your own personal hidden hand, decides that the easy way out is not going to be for you.

Finally, this may not all be about you. There are always cases, especially when one is part of a close group of people, where you are simply a vector for shared suffering. The suffering you experience, becomes the suffering of those around you (especially if you cant work and those around you must then work harder). This is a valuable time to think about the dynamics of your group and the energetics at play in this situation.

I hope you do not mind this wild-speculation that verges into personal matters.

I strongly suspect that healing is possible, but perhaps not until the root cause is addressed - and no shortcuts.

[Gardener]

Eram lots of good advice above, many roads you can take. Just wanted to say to get a proper diagnosis first. Inflamatory conditions can be in the bones the tendons and ligaments, muscle or the bursa, the fluid capsule round the joint. However you have said that it has been in your other joints some of which do not have a bursa. First line of defence is the diet, eliminating foods which cause inflamation in already inflamation prone joints.

Sugar and wheat the main culprits, coffee; tomato, orange, there are so many inflamatory foods, (lots of info online) and an attempt to get the body into a more alkaline state will help any therapy which you plan, and help prevent a reccurence over time. Cut out wheat and sugar completely.

hope you get some relief soon, and as you have said, and to quote from I can't remember who wrote the book but 'Your Body Speaks Your Mind' never underestimate the power of the unconscious lol.

Healing thoughts winging their way to you.

[Gardener]

Ulli suggested 'Piascledine'
Here is a study comparing this with chondroitin for arthrosis conditions of the knee. (It may not be an arthritic condition though, still suggesting a good diagnosis)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20179981


Clin Rheumatol. 2010 Jun;29(6):659-70. doi: 10.1007/s10067-010-1384-8. Epub 2010 Feb 24.
Efficacy and safety of piascledine 300 versus chondroitin sulfate in a 6 months treatment plus 2 months observation in patients with osteoarthritis of the knee.
Pavelka K, Coste P, Géher P, Krejci G.
Source

Institute of Rheumatology, Charles University Prague, Prague, Czech Republic.
Erratum in

Clin Rheumatol. 2010 Jul;29(7):819-20.

Abstract

To investigate that a 6-month treatment with avocado soybean unsaponifiable (Piascledine 300 mg) once daily is as effective as with chondroitin sulfate 400 mg three times daily in femorotibial gonarthrosis, and also the carry-over effect for two more months is comparable. Patients were randomized (1:1) to the treatment groups. They received for 6 months 3 capsules chondroitin sulfate per day or one capsule of avocado soybean unsaponifiable (ASU) in a double-dummy technique. A 2-month post-treatment period followed to determine the carry-over effect. Primary efficacy criterion was the change of the WOMAC-index from study begin to end of treatment. Secondary criteria were the changes in Lequesne-index, pain on active movement and at rest, global assessment of efficacy. Three hundred sixty-four patients have been taken up into the trial. Three hundred sixty one patients were eligible for evaluation. One hundred eighty three received ASU 300 mg once daily, one hundred seventy eight chondroitin sulfate three times daily. The WOMAC-index decreased in both groups for approx. 50% to the end of therapy. During the post-treatment observation there was a further slight improvement. There was no statistical significant difference between the treatment groups during the entire observation. All other observed parameters showed the same pattern. The daily intake of rescue medication was reduced continuously. Overall efficacy has been rated excellent and good in more than 80% of the patients in both groups. Both drugs were safe and well tolerated. The first direct comparison between avocado soybean unsaponifiable 300 mg once daily and chondroitin sulfate three times daily reveiled no difference in efficacy or safety aspects between 1 capsule ASU 300 mg per day and 3 capsules chondroitin sulfate per day. It can be assumed that the once daily intake of ASU will lead to a better compliance in routine therapy.

[TraineeHuman]

Hi Eram,

I sent you healing energy for 20 minutes this morning. It can take a little over two days before such energy “kicks in” and takes effect. You seemed to take all the energy in, but I wasn’t able to send it as intensely as I would have liked. So, maybe you have some subconscious investment in hanging on to the underlying psychological problem. That problem seemed to be something to do with being bland somehow. A problem with a knee will always mean a subconscious problem to do with believing one can’t progress forward fully, or stand on one’s own two feet fully. Whatever that means in your case… maybe it's something to do with, say, economic factors which may be outside your control, so then you'd just need to forgive yourself fully because it's not your fault -- and so on.

If many people send you healing energy that may be enough anyway – the more, the better. It’s kind of quantitative. Two people will often mean twice as much healing energy. I’ll try again in a week or so. A year or two ago I read some info in Nexus Magazine about ibuprofen. It’s got some very unhealthy properties, so I believe Paul is right in saying you should stop taking it completely. Nexus Magazine usually has very scientifically accurate info.

You can also try psychic healing on yourself. That does work, just as well as somebody else doing psychic healing on you. My most recent post in the OBEs… thread tries to describe 13 short videos of Tom Campbell’s. They are as much a short course in how to do psychic healing as anything else. I’m sure there’s heaps more info in the threads in the Healing sub-section. When I do psychic healing remotely at home, I lie on my back with my hands facing upwards. From basically that position, you could place your hands so that they’re not touching the relevant areas of the knee but so the palms of your hands are pointing towards the area from two different angles. You can tell where the life-energy is lacking purely by sensing where it feels cold if you run your hand over the area an inch or two above the skin.

I also feel it's very good for you to continue going for walks -- presumably in the morning.

[STR]

Eram I believe you can gain some serious help here but you may not need us. I would suggest relaxing and rubbing your hands together briskly for a few seconds and holding your hands about four to six inches from your affected area simply focus the following thoughts and just repeat them quietly over and over directing and just focusing on your injured area. Apologize to your body and think the following as you move and focus your hands and pay attention to your heart beat. The heart actually pumps much much more than blood. Each pulse is an energy wave a compression wave of energy which you can embrace to transform and direct. Focus in and say think or some of both as you move your hands directing energy, 'no more pain, I'm better, this energy is what we want, all better now, all healed, no more pain, no worries, swelling is leaving now, all better. Do this for about five minutes each morning. You will surprise yourself. For what it is worth, even though I do not know you or where you are, or what you look like I will do this with you 8 am my time (central USA) in the morning. Bless the wound. Thank your body for the warning to bring attention to this area, and always remember. The body is a delicate and plastic instrument. It readily responds to the thoughts and impressions we place upon it. This exchange goes both ways. When the mind is behind and won't kick into gear the body also influences the mind in the same way. Posturing, hands on hip, dominant posturing and so forth all kick the mind into action this same way.

Used properly you should never have to deal with illness again.

[Eram]

Hi everyone,

I'm really touched by all the replies here and peoples healing efforts.
It makes me realize once more what a great community this is.

I tried several advices today and yesterday.
Cold pack, hot salt pack, hot epsom towel, cinamon, pineapple, change of diet (OMG), extra magnesium supplements (which stopped the twitching of muscles around the knee (sign of magnesium shortage)).
Some advises are easier to get access to as others, so I'm trying the easiest and most appealing ones first.

Also stopped with ibuprofen and Emulgel since advice in this thread confirmed my idea to use it only for a short period of time.
I really hoped to stop the inflammation at the beginning with it, but no such luck.

A few questions:

I have little experience with cold packs. Is it supposed to leave the knee significantly stiff afterwards, even until the next day?
I also didn't see any decrease in swelling. I would even think that the swelling increased...
I'm also a little unsure about what is best in my case. hot or cold on the knee.
The salt pack for instance could help if the radiation indeed sparkles the healing process, but I read that it is not allways the best thing to do (hot pack) on inflammated joints.
I couldn't find anything on the net about it.
MSM gives me a huge brain fog about 15 minutes after ingestion for the duration of 3 to 4 hours. Is that normal?
Signs of detox maybe?



Writing about the inflammation here, the replies in this thread and also the PM's that I received (thank you for that) made it clear to me that indeed the knee problems date back to my fall from the bed when I was 9 years old and that it probably damaged the cartilage in the joints, which makes them receptive to inflammation.
it would explain all the mysterious problems in the past and why an inflammation there is so difficult to overcome.
Hopefully I can do some buildup of healthy cartilage with the help of glucosamine and chondroitine-like products.
I'm also quite clear now that I need to change my diet.
I'm too much of a comfort eater and my body isn't up for it any longer, how else could the wildfire of inflammations recently be explained?

An extra thank you for all the people that send healing.

I found it very informative to read your post STR.
Healing with the hands runs in my family from dad's side and people always tell me how comforting it feels when I place my hands on injuries etc, but I never had a mind set to accompany such an act.
Your approach very much resonates with me and I will certainly bring it into practice.
welcome on Avalon btw and I look forward to read more of what you have to share here.

Will keep you all posted :)

[ulli]

Hi everyone,

I'm really touched by all the replies here and peoples healing efforts.
It makes me realize once more what a great community this is.

I tried several advices today and yesterday.
Cold pack, hot salt pack, hot epsom towel, cinamon, pineapple, change of diet (OMG), extra magnesium supplements (which stopped the twitching of muscles around the knee (sign of magnesium shortage)).
Some advises are easier to get access to as others, so I'm trying the easiest and most appealing ones first.

Also stopped with ibuprofen and Emulgel since advice in this thread confirmed my idea to use it only for a short period of time.
I really hoped to stop the inflammation at the beginning with it, but no such luck.

A few questions:

I have little experience with cold packs. Is it supposed to leave the knee significantly stiff afterwards, even until the next day?
I also didn't see any decrease in swelling. I would even think that the swelling increased...
I'm also a little unsure about what is best in my case. hot or cold on the knee.
The salt pack for instance could help if the radiation indeed sparkles the healing process, but I read that it is not allways the best thing to do (hot pack) on inflammated joints.
I couldn't find anything on the net about it.
MSM gives me a huge brain fog about 15 minutes after ingestion for the duration of 3 to 4 hours. Is that normal?
Signs of detox maybe?



Writing about the inflammation here, the replies in this thread and also the PM's that I received (thank you for that) made it clear to me that indeed the knee problems date back to my fall from the bed when I was 9 years old and that it probably damaged the cartilage in the joints, which makes them receptive to inflammation.
it would explain all the mysterious problems in the past and why an inflammation there is so difficult to overcome.
Hopefully I can do some buildup of healthy cartilage with the help of glucosamine and chondroitine-like products.
I'm also quite clear now that I need to change my diet.
I'm too much of a comfort eater and my body isn't up for it any longer, how else could the wildfire of inflammations recently be explained?

An extra thank you for all the people that send healing.

I found it very informative to read your post STR.
Healing with the hands runs in my family from dad's side and people always tell me how comforting it feels when I place my hands on injuries etc, but I never had a mind set to accompany such an act.
Your approach very much resonates with me and I will certainly bring it into practice.
welcome on Avalon btw and I look forward to read more of what you have to share here.

Will keep you all posted :)


It was I who recommended the hot salt packs.
I was told about it by a Ukrainian osteopath, who was working in a hospital in Kiev
during the last years of the Soviet Union,
when they had no more funding, and it was the only cheap form of pain control they could come up with.

I had sciatica with agonizing pain, and my hot salt bag gave me lots of pain relief.
Later I put hot salt on my father-in-laws inflamed knee, and he felt great relief as well.

I could never tolerate ice packs, so different types of people respond differently.
You may just have to try out what works for you.
I doubt putting on the hot salt can do much damage.

[Heartsong]

You need a buffer between the ice and the skin so that your skin isn't damaged.

When I do ice packs, I get a frozen sack of vegetables or a plastic bag of ice, wrap it in a light weight towel (tea towel) and hold it on my knee. I've never had additional pain or stiffness as a result.

[Ultima Thule]

What they said!

If I were you, I would let a chiropractor or some other professional that specializes in structure to check out your joint alignment(at least hip-knee-ankle). And then I would strongly second the product Christine recommended - looking at the ingredients from my pov, which is basically years of supplement studying, it is a panacea. Only thing one might suggest on top of that would be serrapeptase enzyme. What Paul said is also very recommendable.

UT

[Eram]

On the risk of claiming victory prematurely...
I can report that for the first time, during the day, the swelling is decreasing instead of increasing and also the 'hot' feeling of the inflammation in the knee hasn't been felt for more then a day now.
It begins to feel like the tide has turned and the healing process is well underway.

I've done the hot salt pack twice yesterday and skipped the cold pack since it just didn't feel good.
I think I'm like you Ulli.
I just have a bad reaction on cold packs (increased swelling and afterwards it stays stiff for a long time).

Staying away from sugar and sugar-like produce drives me nuts, but the PH levels of my urine have been above 7 for 2 days now and I'm sure that's a first since childhood ;)

I also ate 2 pineapples in the last days (the last one with the chore).

Also did the healing suggestion from STR a few times, though I've no doubt that the psychic healing that TH suggests will work fine too.

I've looked into the serrapeptase enzyme UT, and it looks promising enough.
Together with a product like Christine recommended, who knows what I might be able to restore in my knees.


So, it seems like the bombardment of better nutrition, supplements, (not the least) distant healing, hot salt pack etc are doing the trick and a small miracle is underway.

will keep you posted.

[TheVoyager]

I would also suggest you to look for a healing modality that goes straight to the cause of the effect, which is your knee/s problem, and change that. Until then you may have more or less success in healing - that is in dealing with the consequences of (yet) unknown reason for your physical problems.

My recommendation: Holographic Kinetics. What is happening now has happened before and will happen again, since it is the same pattern that keeps on repeating over and over again when it gets triggered. With this holistic technique you can change it.

[soleil]

hi eram, i just did and will send again a healing ball of light to you. i learned it from this article, and also wanted to share the link: http://www.naturalnews.com/041270_healing_energy_quantum_mind_power_of_intention.html

not trying to tack on more things to do, but i just finished reading celestine prophecy and at some point there is a nice detail in the story about body pains and past lives. i would really recommend trying to interpret that, it may aid in your healing energy. since the healing will then come from yourself, which is the strongest of all.

[edit] oh and now that we all know you have a microwave, toss it out! ;)

[DeDukshyn]

Dear Avalonians,

Since three weeks, I have an inflammation in and around my left knee which I don't seem to get control of no matter what I try.
It is not the first time that a knee gets an inflammation.
If that were me, I'd be keen to

minimize the use of Ibuprofen and Emulgel, which might slow healing,
be sure I had plenty of Omega 3 fats (ideal ratio is 1:1 with Omega 6),
be sure I had enough sulfur nutrients (possible sources: Willard's water, Chondroitin, glucosamine, methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) and S-adenosyl-L-methionine (SAMe)), and
be sure I had enough Vitamin C (I consume 5 to 10 grams a day, up to bowel tolerance).


I concur with Paul's recommendations - any sulfur donors you can add will help - for example use glucosamine sulphate instead of hcl or other forms. SAMe is good as well but also a bit expensive. I would get up to 10,000 iu's of D3 for treatment, 5000 for maintenance. High dose D3 may also help with pain.

Turmeric, unless it is an extract standardized to 95% curcuminoids is almost useless, and even the 95% has to be taken at extreme dosages for effectiveness. It's not that the molecules aren't effective, the human body just doesn't like letting them through the gut, and when they do get through, the body's phase II enzymes quickly scavenge them for removal, so to be effective, you need to load up, or find some of the new delivery forms such as that by Longvida (Verdure sciences), which have novel delivery systems to increase effectiveness. My career is in natural health products field.

Good luck!

[conk]

A recent newsletter by Dr. Robert Rowen discusses a product called Phytocort. A blend of herbs, it has been shown to dramatically reduce inflammation in the body. I ordered some yesterday from Amazon at $23 a bottle. Worth a try.

http://www.amazon.com/Nutricology-Phytocort-Vegicaps-120-Count/dp/B000FA04OM/ref=sr_1_1?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1376584303&sr=1-1&keywords=phytocort

[DeDukshyn]

Any updates Eram?

[Dorjezigzag]

Not sure if this has been recommended already but willow bark is a great natural anti inflammatory, I recommend this over synthetic alternatives such as Ibuprofen, you can buy it in capsules at a good health store, of course choose those without problematic fillers.

[Eram]

Sorry people,

I completely overlooked all replies from 2th August on. (just catching up)


Any updates Eram?

The inflammation is pretty much under control since my last update, but it isn't over yet.
Some parts of the knee is still swollen ( I think it is a tendon actually) and the knee gets real stiff and a bit painful whenever I enter an area that is colder then where I was before.Taking a shower for instance is a sure thing to have a stiff knee for the rest of the day.
In the mean time, the other knee is also acting up a bit, which adds to my opinion that it is a chronic condition.

In short: The healing from all you Avalonians together with better nutrition and supplements have stopped the crisis of a heavy inflammatory knee, but I have still work to do (getting it proper diagnosed and the process of complete healing)


[edit] oh and now that we all know you have a microwave, toss it out! ;)

I'm still doing the salt pack, but I decided some time ago to heat it in a not sticky pan instead of the microwave ;).
Ours (the microwave) is incorporated in our oven system, so I can't toss it away. We never use it though.

My body reacts greatly on the MSM (methylsulfonylmethane). I never had such good skin and nails condition as now and even my fingers stopped cracking after a few weeks of this stuff, but it appears to have some unwanted side effects.
I reported earlier that I felt brain fogs a few hours after taking this supplement and I also started to notice that there was an increasing tiredness creeping up on me during the past weeks. Not a regular tiredness, but like a brain tiredness/heavy head.
At first it was after 17 o clock but every new day it begun earlier and now I have it all day long.
Also cold forehead and cold neck whenever I do something physical.
After some searching on the internet I'm suspecting that this MSM besides all the good effects it seems to have, is also dislodging mercury that is stored in my body. I had 9 mercury fillings for roughly 25 years.
So, MSM is out and I will to search for another affordable sulfur product that has the same beneficial effects, but without the dislodging of mercury...ahem.


to do list:
Research willow bark, phytocort, Holographic Kinetics, glucosamine sulphate and toss the turmeric (are you sure about that Dedukshyn? I read that together with a bit of black pepper it passes the gut system a 100 fold better).

:grouphug:

[DeDukshyn]

Sorry people,

I completely overlooked all replies from 2th August on. (just catching up)


Any updates Eram?

The inflammation is pretty much under control since my last update, but it isn't over yet.
Some parts of the knee is still swollen ( I think it is a tendon actually) and the knee gets real stiff and a bit painful whenever I enter an area that is colder then where I was before.Taking a shower for instance is a sure thing to have a stiff knee for the rest of the day.
In the mean time, the other knee is also acting up a bit, which adds to my opinion that it is a chronic condition.

In short: The healing from all you Avalonians together with better nutrition and supplements have stopped the crisis of a heavy inflammatory knee, but I have still work to do (getting it proper diagnosed and the process of complete healing)


[edit] oh and now that we all know you have a microwave, toss it out! ;)

I'm still doing the salt pack, but I decided some time ago to heat it in a not sticky pan instead of the microwave ;).
Ours (the microwave) is incorporated in our oven system, so I can't toss it away. We never use it though.

My body reacts greatly on the MSM (methylsulfonylmethane). I never had such good skin and nails condition as now and even my fingers stopped cracking after a few weeks of this stuff, but it appears to have some unwanted side effects.
I reported earlier that I felt brain fogs a few hours after taking this supplement and I also started to notice that there was an increasing tiredness creeping up on me during the past weeks. Not a regular tiredness, but like a brain tiredness/heavy head.
At first it was after 17 o clock but every new day it begun earlier and now I have it all day long.
Also cold forehead and cold neck whenever I do something physical.
After some searching on the internet I'm suspecting that this MSM besides all the good effects it seems to have, is also dislodging mercury that is stored in my body. I had 9 mercury fillings for roughly 25 years.
So, MSM is out and I will to search for another affordable sulfur product that has the same beneficial effects, but without the dislodging of mercury...ahem.


to do list:
Research willow bark, phytocort, Holographic Kinetics, glucosamine sulphate and toss the turmeric (are you sure about that Dedukshyn? I read that together with a bit of black pepper it passes the gut system a 100 fold better).

:grouphug:

MSM is awesome! .. I take bout 4-5 grams a day and my skin is glowingly awesome! .. and I'm a tough man kind of guy that never had nice skin .. for me this is absolutely great ... everyone should take MSM --- bioavailable sulfur is extremely deficient in western diet -- cooking destroys it completely in food, so either go raw or take some supplemental MSM ... one month on 3 gr a day of MSM ... you'll never go back ... seriously ... skin health, joint health, and overall health ;)

.. get those fillings out! Also MSM can induce complete toxin flush ... it'll make you feel like **** for weeks ....


On the turmeric and black pepper extract ...

Read this -- it is part 2 of an article on turmeric extract: http://drnibber.com/infamy-infamy-theyve-all-got-it-in-for-me-part-2-bioavailability-what-happens-when-the-gatekeeper-is-knocked-out-senseless/

Here's part 1: http://drnibber.com/infamy-infamy-theyve-all-got-it-in-for-me-part-1-curcumin-bioavailability-the-need-to-compare-apples-with-apples/

This is one company's approach to the issue of low bioavailability of curcumin, seems so far the best to me, everything considered. Curcumin is certainly an incredibly fascinating group of molecules ...

[Mu2143]

[............................

[Eram]

.. get those fillings out! Also MSM can induce complete toxin flush ... it'll make you feel like **** for weeks ....



The filllings are gone. Had them removed in 2012.

Since then, slowly, most symptoms that I attributed to mercury poisoning have mostly disappeared.
Bad memory, brain fog, cold forehead and neck during physical exercise, feeling down/heavy and many more.
Took and take lots of chlorella for chelating.
Now, with the MSM, all these symptoms are coming back and on the internet there is talk about MSM dislodging mercury but not being able to remove it from the body, so the mercury that sits relatively safe (bones etc) without doing much harm, gets dislodged and starts to wander trough the body, causing all kinds of mercury poisoning symptoms.
This certainly corresponds with my personal experience.

Paul made a post about Chris Shade a while ago in the H&N:


If anyone knows of more substances to help me get rid of the toxic metals in my body, please let me know.
At the moment it's chlorella, selenium, coriander and homoeopathic amalgam that I use.

Waky, that was what my Holistic dentist had me on, Chlorella, and for a good 6 months.
It can be a slow process, to remove all the merc.. but its WELL worth it.

I've been taking chlorella too, but I'm unsure of chlorella from Japan or Hawaii, or even the West Coast since the Fukushima disaster.
The best expert, so far as I know, on mercury detox is Chris Shade, of Quicksilver Scientific.

I encourage you to do a Google search on some such words as "Chris Shade mercury detox Quicksilver", and listen to one of his longer Youtube videos and/or read some of what he's written.

Mercury detox is a bit tricky, and involves several steps within your body. If you don't have the later steps working well, before applying the chelators to unleash one of the earlier steps, you risk moving the mercury around in your body from some place where it was relatively harmless and dormant to some other place that is more harmful. This can happen if you manage to pry the dormant mercury lose, but it doesn't make it all the way out of the body before getting sucked in somewhere else.

I've tried several times to watch the youtubes from Chris shade, but he's too fast for me, with too much difficult words.
And I never saw him giving answers as to how safely chelate, instead it seems that he only instructs certain therapist all over the world with his formula that we then have to pay huge amounts for to get the chelating going.
What I did get though, is that certain substances can get the mercury to wander around from relative safe places to relative unsafe places.

Here is someone who claims that MSM is dangerous to use when mercury charged:
http://healthyawareness.com/thread-the-mercury-chelation-controversy-part-2

In effect, I'm not sure that MSM is causing mercury to wander around, but considering my recent symptoms, I'm too afraid to proceed with it, unless someone can convince me otherwise.

[Mu2143]

..................

[ThePythonicCow]

Paul made a post about Chris Shade a while ago in the H&N:


I encourage you to do a Google search on some such words as "Chris Shade mercury detox Quicksilver", and listen to one of his longer Youtube videos and/or read some of what he's written.

Mercury detox is a bit tricky, and involves several steps within your body. If you don't have the later steps working well, before applying the chelators to unleash one of the earlier steps, you risk moving the mercury around in your body from some place where it was relatively harmless and dormant to some other place that is more harmful. This can happen if you manage to pry the dormant mercury lose, but it doesn't make it all the way out of the body before getting sucked in somewhere else.

I posted the above in November 2012. A couple months later, in January 2013, Dr. Joseph Mercola interviewed Chris Shade and made some effort to bring his expertise to a bit wider audience. The interview, with transcript and related documentation, is available at

Revised Protocol for Detoxifying Your Body from Mercury Exposure (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/13/mercury-detoxification-protocol.aspx)The Youtube upload of the interview is at Dr. Mercola Interviews Dr. Shade about Mercury (Youtube) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umN_fXKKjxM), and the written transcript in A Special Interview with Dr. Christopher Shade By Dr. Joseph Mercola (pdf) (http://mercola.fileburst.com/PDF/ExpertInterviewTranscripts/DrChrisShade.pdf).

I've just started listening to it now, so I can't testify to how well it's presented, but I'm hopeful this will be at least a little bit more accessible.

(Listening to the first few minutes now, I can tell that Chris Shade's brain is still working at a high level :).)

[Eram]

Thanks Paul,

I'm listening to the youtube now.
I Hope Dr. Mercola gets him to spill his guts about the protocols to safely chelate ;)

[Amysenthia]

Dear Avalonians,

Since three weeks, I have an inflammation in and around my left knee which I don't seem to get control of no matter what I try.
It is not the first time that a knee gets an inflammation.
Three years ago, it was my right knee and it lasted for seven months before the inflammation and swellings where completely gone.
Lots of tissue was damaged and even today I can't run or play soccer with my son.

For now, I have taken the following steps to deal with this inflammation, but with no success so far:

3 x 400 mg ibuprofen a day
4 x voltaren emulgel a day (an anti inflammatory cream)
borax (anti arthritis)
high doses of turmeric
high doses of vitamin D3 (3000 IU)
high doses of liposomal vitamin C
6 grams of MSM a day
1 gram of baking soda a day (to help for a body less acidic)



Nothing seems to work and it shows all the signs of a long term inflammation, just like three years ago.
With our bed and breakfast in high season, quite a discomfort for our family..

Hi Eram,

I generally don't respond to posting about seeking medical advice because I usually cringe when I read what many people post. When you can not see the person physically it is generally dangerous to try to diagnose what the problem may be. However, what you described with the sudden onset symptoms and the pain/inflammation you described it sounds as if you have GOUT. I know most people think that Gout only occurs in the feet, mainly the large toe joint, but it can affect any joint.

Not being able to physically assess you make this only a postulation. However, if you do have GOUT the most important way to treat it, or it can go on for long lengths of time and do significant joint damage the longer it persists, is to control your intake of URIC ACID. High levels of Uric Acid in the body cause crystalline deposits to form in the synovial fluid of the joints. This is what causes the inflammation. You must follow a LOW-PYRINE diet. Please go to WEB sites such as www.Gout.com to learn more about Low pyrine diets and how to treat Gout. There are prescription medications that can help if the pain becomes intolerable, which many people claim it can excruciatingly bad. Try the diet first to see if it helps.

Best of luck to you!

[Eram]

I posted the above in November 2012. A couple months later, in January 2013, Dr. Joseph Mercola interviewed Chris Shade and made some effort to bring his expertise to a bit wider audience. The interview, with transcript and related documentation, is available at

Revised Protocol for Detoxifying Your Body from Mercury Exposure (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/13/mercury-detoxification-protocol.aspx)The Youtube upload of the interview is at Dr. Mercola Interviews Dr. Shade about Mercury (Youtube) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umN_fXKKjxM), and the written transcript in A Special Interview with Dr. Christopher Shade By Dr. Joseph Mercola (pdf) (http://mercola.fileburst.com/PDF/ExpertInterviewTranscripts/DrChrisShade.pdf).

I've just started listening to it now, so I can't testify to how well it's presented, but I'm hopeful this will be at least a little bit more accessible.

(Listening to the first few minutes now, I can tell that Chris Shade's brain is still working at a high level :).)

Wauw Paul,

I'm happy you mentioned this guy to us.
He's really a fountain of important information regarding mercury detox.
When I listened to his youtubes between November en January, I just couldn't follow his high speed talks, full of difficult words, but now in this interview, I find it fairly doable. a Sign that maybe I lost some mercury already and my brain is functioning better eh? ;)

Here are a few notes that I made from this interview:

Pharmaceutical products like DMPS and DMSA bind with mercury in the blood and leave the body through the kidneys which is often harmful for the kidneys (which are already burdened from mercury in the first place) and often, people who are mercury loaded, have kidney troubles which prevent the mercury and DMPS and DMSA to leave the body at all, which results in the mercury wandering around in the body, doing more harm then before taking the DMPS/DMSA.
Dr. Shade talks from experience, because when was trying to detox with those substances, he didn't see an increase in mercury in his urine, but he got sicker and sicker still.
This is what you must have been referring to Paul, in that post in the H&N thread.

Dr. Shade promotes to detox from Mercury in a natural way, which is with the anti oxidant glutathione (which is naturally formed in the liver), which binds with the mercury in the blood and then takes it out via the liver through the gut system (stool).
Actually he talks of a glutathione system (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20868358).

A large part of the interview is about the refined testing tools that dr. Shade developed to measure the amounts of mercury in the body and leaving the body, combined with his knowledge how to interpret the measurements. This seems to be a tricky business, because every person reacts different to mercury and in some cases people who don't seem to show any levels of mercury in saliva, hair, bloos or urine can still be very sick from dangerous levels of mercury in the body.

He goes in to three kinds of Mercury that can get into the body system:

Methyl mercury (fish and seafood). builds up well in the body (which explains why a fish in the sea can have a million times more mercury in his body as the surrounding sea) and can be measured in the hair.
Ehtyl mercury (vaccines). also builds up well in the body sytem.
Inorganic mercury (amalgam fillings). This doesn't build up easily in the body.


When you want to detox from amalgam fillings and take all the necessary produce (it differs from person to person which produce that must be), it takes roughly a year to do it.

Detox procedure:
The aim is to get a healthy gut system that isn't inflamed due to mercury, a healthy functioning liver and a good working glutathione system.
To get there one can take all kinds of produce (natural produce preferred).


Oral glutathione
Intraveneuse glutathione
Precursors to glutathione like cysteine (whey proteine) together with sulfur compounds.
Liposomal glutathion is also an option, since it bypasses the gut !
Green tea extract
Pine bark extract
Sulfur based chemicals (sulfer compounds upregulate the glutathione system) like: garlic
(garlic oil is better), lypoic acid (alpha-liponzuur) (favoured by Shade)
Vitamin C
Vitamin E
Astaxanthine
Chlorella highly !!! (it is a binder to mercury and takes them out via the stool)

Oxidative therapies like Ozon (don't do that together with anti-axodants. (One day
oxidative therapy, the other day take anti oxidants)


Two short youtube from Chris Shade, explaining about his own experience with detoxing from amalgam mercury and the natural way to detox from mercury.

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A preliminary conclusion is that MSM (a sulfur product) can't generate mercury poisoning symptoms and that I probably experience other detox symptoms (like Dedukshyn) suggested.
I'll continue to take it, but in a lower dose for now, because I was barely able to function properly because of the symptoms ;)

[Mu2143]

.................

[Flash]

Sorry people,

I completely overlooked all replies from 2th August on. (just catching up)


Any updates Eram?

The inflammation is pretty much under control since my last update, but it isn't over yet.
Some parts of the knee is still swollen ( I think it is a tendon actually) and the knee gets real stiff and a bit painful whenever I enter an area that is colder then where I was before.Taking a shower for instance is a sure thing to have a stiff knee for the rest of the day.
In the mean time, the other knee is also acting up a bit, which adds to my opinion that it is a chronic condition.

In short: The healing from all you Avalonians together with better nutrition and supplements have stopped the crisis of a heavy inflammatory knee, but I have still work to do (getting it proper diagnosed and the process of complete healing)


[edit] oh and now that we all know you have a microwave, toss it out! ;)

I'm still doing the salt pack, but I decided some time ago to heat it in a not sticky pan instead of the microwave ;).
Ours (the microwave) is incorporated in our oven system, so I can't toss it away. We never use it though.

My body reacts greatly on the MSM (methylsulfonylmethane). I never had such good skin and nails condition as now and even my fingers stopped cracking after a few weeks of this stuff, but it appears to have some unwanted side effects.
I reported earlier that I felt brain fogs a few hours after taking this supplement and I also started to notice that there was an increasing tiredness creeping up on me during the past weeks. Not a regular tiredness, but like a brain tiredness/heavy head.
At first it was after 17 o clock but every new day it begun earlier and now I have it all day long.
Also cold forehead and cold neck whenever I do something physical.
After some searching on the internet I'm suspecting that this MSM besides all the good effects it seems to have, is also dislodging mercury that is stored in my body. I had 9 mercury fillings for roughly 25 years.
So, MSM is out and I will to search for another affordable sulfur product that has the same beneficial effects, but without the dislodging of mercury...ahem.


to do list:
Research willow bark, phytocort, Holographic Kinetics, glucosamine sulphate and toss the turmeric (are you sure about that Dedukshyn? I read that together with a bit of black pepper it passes the gut system a 100 fold better).

:grouphug:

to do list Eram: take off the fillings - replace them by white ones. Unimportant the price, I bet most of your problems would disappear if the fillings are gone.

[Eram]

This is a check list from me
Are you drinking clean Water?
Do you eat organic food?
What supplements are you taking, because it is possible that they are contaminated with heavy metals or any other toxins

What I also would recommend is to contact Dr Deagle for this he realy has the know how.
http://www.nutrimedical.com

Wanted to add I also had Amalgan fillings and 12 of them removed between 2008-2009

Hi Mu2143,

I'm quite sure that there are no high amounts of heavy metals in our diet. We take great care to avoid that and look at everything that we eat on a daily bases to check it on any form of poisonous content.
We filter our drinking water or drink spring water.
More then half of our diet is with organic food.

Will look into dr. Deagle site, thank you!




Hi Eram,

I generally don't respond to posting about seeking medical advice because I usually cringe when I read what many people post. When you can not see the person physically it is generally dangerous to try to diagnose what the problem may be. However, what you described with the sudden onset symptoms and the pain/inflammation you described it sounds as if you have GOUT. I know most people think that Gout only occurs in the feet, mainly the large toe joint, but it can affect any joint.

Not being able to physically assess you make this only a postulation. However, if you do have GOUT the most important way to treat it, or it can go on for long lengths of time and do significant joint damage the longer it persists, is to control your intake of URIC ACID. High levels of Uric Acid in the body cause crystalline deposits to form in the synovial fluid of the joints. This is what causes the inflammation. You must follow a LOW-PYRINE diet. Please go to WEB sites such as www.Gout.com to learn more about Low pyrine diets and how to treat Gout. There are prescription medications that can help if the pain becomes intolerable, which many people claim it can excruciatingly bad. Try the diet first to see if it helps.

Best of luck to you!

Hi Amysenthia,

When my inflammation in joints begun (about 5/6 years ago), a uric acid problem was the first thing that I suspected.
The inflammations in the knees though don't hurt much and one of the characteristics of Gout is excruciating pains isn't it?
I do feel that I have a problem with too many forming of acids (and dispose of them) though and that is one of the reasons why I also take 500 mg of baking soda daily.

I will look into the LOW-PYRINE diet though, thanks!

[DeDukshyn]

Just reviewing this thread ... one note: cooking destroys all forms of organic sulfur. eat your garlic, broccoli, brussel sprouts, etc. raw. However, be noted that most of these have MSM as the main source of organic sulfur. Sulfur on its own is not absorbable by the body. Glucosamine sulphate and R+lipoic (not s-form!), are excellent sources of organic sulphur -- and NAC and R+lipoic work synergistically together -- and there you can get your glutathione (from the NAC specifically).

However, in my mind it is the sulfur in MSM is giving you the detox issues, MSM works because of the high organic sulfur content. When new cells are created - if your body has good sulfur in the blood, the cells are far more efficient at detoxing and moving energy in and out, however, on existing celss, it doesn't change them much. This is why skin and gut benefit first from MSM supplementation -- where you notice it -- because those cells get replaced the fastest. Eventually, all your cells will get this treatment (about 10 years for 98% of all your bodies cells to be fully replaced with new ones).

On turmeric -- if you taking raw turmeric, it is beneficial. But the hard working molecules in turmeric are curcuminoids. So either find a 95% curcuminoid extract and load up high (no toxicity), or find a novel delivery system -- piperine (pepper extract) works, but may carry risks as the earlier article I linked pointed out. But don't underestimate curcumin's ability to treat almost any condition -- the curcuminoid molecules are one of the most exciting molecules in natural medical circles right now -- getting them to where they do their work is the hard part.

And if Flash is reading this -- re: her last post; he already ridded himself of those, but the mercury will take some work.

[Eram]

Just reviewing this thread ... one note: cooking destroys all forms of organic sulfur. eat your garlic, broccoli, brussel sprouts, etc. raw. However, be noted that most of these have MSM as the main source of organic sulfur. Sulfur on its own is not absorbable by the body. Glucosamine sulphate and R+lipoic (not s-form!), are excellent sources of organic sulphur -- and NAC and R+lipoic work synergistically together -- and there you can get your glutathione (from the NAC specifically).

However, in my mind it is the sulfur in MSM is giving you the detox issues, MSM works because of the high organic sulfur content. When new cells are created - if your body has good sulfur in the blood, the cells are far more efficient at detoxing and moving energy in and out, however, on existing celss, it doesn't change them much. This is why skin and gut benefit first from MSM supplementation -- where you notice it -- because those cells get replaced the fastest. Eventually, all your cells will get this treatment (about 10 years for 98% of all your bodies cells to be fully replaced with new ones).


I understand about the sulfur and destruction through cooking.
Look, I just made my first few batches of vegetables for fermentation (many sulfur rich vegetables like cauliflower, broccoli, white cabbage and garlic in it).
This also provides additional pro biotic's that will assist in digesting, detoxing and keep the gut inflammation free.

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3901/dr0x.jpg

I agree that the MSM is causing the detox symptoms but this doesn't rule out that mercury is one of the components that is detoxing isn't it?
There are just too many symptoms that are specific to mercury intoxication to disregards it.
to name a few:

Difficulties to find specific words/names.
Twitching eye lids.
Sore throat in the morning without an infection there.
Feeling disconnected and kind of far away from "the here and now".
Sensation of pins and needles in toes and fingers every next minute.
Cold forehead and back of the neck
Violent Dreams
Last but not least a huge reaction when I self medicated with homoeopathic amalgam the other day (flare up in these symptoms together with a metalic taste in my mouth for the bigger part of a day). I have self medicated with homoeopathic amalgam for several months and in several potencies after the fillings where out and they gave no signs of further help or reaction after some time when it has done great work for me, so this huge reaction now indicates to me that indeed there has been a huge release of mercury into the blood stream recently.


I do acknowledge that MSM is of great benefit for me (not the least in calming the inflammations), except for the releasing of mercury in my bloodstream, while I am unable to eliminate it through the gut at a sufficient rate at the moment.
That's why I am now going to work on a healthy diet first, then building up on the glutathione levels and after that working on releasing the mercury from the cells into the bloodstream.
dr.Shade/Mercola style !!! (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/13/mercury-detoxification-protocol.aspx)
According to dr. Shade, sulfur is also used for boosting that part of the glutathione system that is responsible for extracting mercury out of the cells and into the bloodstream.

Thanks for the extra info on curcumin :thumb:



to do list Eram: take off the fillings - replace them by white ones. Unimportant the price, I bet most of your problems would disappear if the fillings are gone.

Thanks FLash, but the last amalgam filling was taken out some ten months ago. :)

[Finefeather]

Hi Eram
Just saw this thread and it reminded of my knees...both of them.
For years they used to swell up on a regular basis and eventually I went for a knee scan and both my knee cartilage were damaged.
Small chips and debris were floating around in there, so 'geen wonder' my knee was swelling up.
I had both knees cleaned up using endoscope technology...3 little holes in each knee...and goodbye swelling.
I also pay special attention to avoid high acidic forming foods in my diet...I do not use any chemical drugs...and only eat whole foods(unprocessed and unrefined).
I am 67 now and do not take any prescribed medication and no supplement, I use homeopathic tinctures only...because my little sister says so...and I take orders very well :)
Take care..Ray