The Kundalini Is The Holy Spirit! What Your Church Doesn't Want You To Know

[anonymous]

I think this is amazing. Took a lot to finally come out and say this because of all the fear but Ye shall know the Truth and the Truth shall make you FREE! :)
rRgciTB3Iew

Not sure.
:yell:

[Jake]

Joel 2 28. And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

I really admire it when a Christian opens up and thinks out of the box. Of course, Kundalini and the 'holy spirit' are the same. No matter what religion,, Self/Higher Self/Spirit,, Self/cosmic consciousness/kundalini,, Father/son/holy ghost,, I see it as all the same.

I am going to have a good listen to this one... Thx, TruthSeekah. :)

Jake.

[GloriousPoetry]

I experienced this kundalini energy back in 2004.....it is an intense cosmic energy and yes it is what is referred to as the holy spirit. However there is more to kundalini than even the new agers want to see......from my personal experience kundalini is related to the planet saturn and there are implications there that can be even more disturbing........

[Jake]

The subject of Kundalini keeps coming up. It is a fascinating and mysterious topic. I have experienced manymany energy body states, while in trance, or deeply relaxed meditation. There are lots of energy body sensations and energetic vibrations/pulses/waves/hums, etc... I believe Kundalini is different than these energy body sensations. Out of all of these types of events, one stands out for me. I have a bit of a different take on why Kundalini is likened unto a snake or serpent. What I experienced, I will describe as violent! It was a physical event. I was meditating after an afternoon nap. I spent about 1 or 2 minutes doing regular energy work, stimulating energy centers, pretty basic. All of the sudden, in the time it would take to breath in,,, something shot up through me, very fast and hard. It felt like a giant cork-screw that was being stabbed into my (base or root chakra) !!! It twisted as it went through my torso, even causing physical contortions in my ribs and gut and chest. I remember my arms were flailing at the sides, and my head and neck were thrown backwards. I could not force a breath. I felt this tremendous energy spill out over my forehead. My face went numb. I could 'feel' something draping over my face, as if it took the shape of a cobra, and the head, was hanging over my face. It was as if I had been transformed into a large snake. It was NOT pleasant. Not at first. After a moment or two, I simply could not retain consciousness. I passed out, and woke later. My body was in pain from the contortions.

I have done a lot of research into the matter. As it stands, there are differing opinions about the nature of Kundalini. It is not just an energetic flow of bio-electrical energy. It is very 'spiritual'. It goes to the nature of who we are, and what we believe. I do not know if what I experienced was a spontaneous Kundalini event or not. I can tell you that I have never been the same since.

Jake.

[ulli]

I have had both Holy Spirit as well as Kundalini experiences.
The Holy Spirit brings one to a higher state the way a plant starts to blossom,
as a result of being given just the right fertile soil, the right amount of sunshine,
a gentle breeze, and light rain at the right time,
whereas the Kundalini experience is like having a heavy dose of fertilizer dumped on it
in order to force it's growth.
It's a make or break experience, and I would not recommend anyone to try and bring it on purposely,
as some do via fasting combined with spinal manipulations.

[Flash]

The subject of Kundalini keeps coming up. It is a fascinating and mysterious topic. I have experienced manymany energy body states, while in trance, or deeply relaxed meditation. There are lots of energy body sensations and energetic vibrations/pulses/waves/hums, etc... I believe Kundalini is different than these energy body sensations. Out of all of these types of events, one stands out for me. I have a bit of a different take on why Kundalini is likened unto a snake or serpent. What I experienced, I will describe as violent! It was a physical event. I was meditating after an afternoon nap. I spent about 1 or 2 minutes doing regular energy work, stimulating energy centers, pretty basic. All of the sudden, in the time it would take to breath in,,, something shot up through me, very fast and hard. It felt like a giant cork-screw that was being stabbed into my (base or root chakra) !!! It twisted as it went through my torso, even causing physical contortions in my ribs and gut and chest. I remember my arms were flailing at the sides, and my head and neck were thrown backwards. I could not force a breath. I felt this tremendous energy spill out over my forehead. My face went numb. I could 'feel' something draping over my face, as if it took the shape of a cobra, and the head, was hanging over my face. It was as if I had been transformed into a large snake. It was NOT pleasant. Not at first. After a moment or two, I simply could not retain consciousness. I passed out, and woke later. My body was in pain from the contortions.

I have done a lot of research into the matter. As it stands, there are differing opinions about the nature of Kundalini. It is not just an energetic flow of bio-electrical energy. It is very 'spiritual'. It goes to the nature of who we are, and what we believe. I do not know if what I experienced was a spontaneous Kundalini event or not. I can tell you that I have never been the same since.

Jake.

A friend, who described to me what she lived once, really does seem to be the same, to a T, told me it was one of the primordial engram/program put into us to stop us from developing that had been removed. She was with other people but did not pass out because they kept taking care of her, but the contorsions etc were quite similar from what I heard. She even thought for a while she had lost her soul, but it was not the case. I don't know if that may help Jake.

[Finefeather]

If this does not make sense to you, just leave it, please don't send me a threatening letter :) I am not fighting with anyone...just offering you something.

Kundalini is not a holy thing...life is not holy...life is an atomic phenomena and each one of us is responsible for our own growth. There is no God watching you mess up your life, or to lead you by the hand to the promised land...get over it now :) ...it will only hurt for a while :)

Kundalini is the Holy Spirit if we are talking symbolically of the trinity...Spirit, Soul, and Body...or more accurately...Energy, Consciousness and Matter.

Kundalini is primordial energy which is the source latent energy in every atom in existence... including each one of us...because we are each a primordial atom. So if you want to call this God then that's ok, I guess. The reason why it has been symbolized as a coiled snake is because those who have seen it in higher dimensions have just tried their very best to describe it, in those bygone days. Actually what they saw...in their amazement was a mini universe. If you find a picture on the internet of our solar system, then that is what it looks like. It is the atomic center of our being...and in our physical bodies...although much smaller...it is found at the lower or root chakra. This is known in esoterics as the Physical Permanent Atom and in this state it is 1000s of times larger than the primordial atom which we are. This indicated how much 'covering' or aggregates of molecular matter, in different states, we have had to don to appear on earth as a human.

Kundalini process is a fission phenomena which takes place when we refine grosser molecular matter...in one of our 5 incarnating bodies/envelopes...to a higher state.
To understand this we first need to realize that we are each...at the core of our Being...an individual...separate...primordial atom...who has evolved through billions of years of consciousness growth to where we are now.
All the grand experiences people have, and think that they are experiencing some gift from the divine...and are surely making good progress...are mistaken, sadly...but there is a symbolic truth to this thinking, so we should retain it for those who still feel that way about it...like the good Christians etc.

At some point in our lives, after millions of years of 'spiritual' growth, we will all experience some breakthrough from a 'lower' physical consciousness to a higher level of consciousness in this order: Etheric consciousness, to Emotional consciousness, to Mental consciousness, to Causal consciousness. These experiences in our lives can take many forms and can come in the most unexpected moments. The fact that many experience them at moments of inner meditation or contemplation or reflection or revelation is simply because the time has arrived and they are ready to make the step into the next higher state...this also, can be termed enlightenment or ascension...what ever word we choose simply means we have moved from a lower state of consciousness to a higher state of consciousness. What the Indian gurus and others claim to be enlightenment is far far from cosmic consciousness...so do not become awed by this claim...they have not even reached true Nirvana yet.

So whilst kundalini activity is relavant in our lives it should not be seen as any major stage in our ultimate goal...just another small step along the way.

All human are now at least at the emotional consciousness level of our evolution...we are now in the process of becoming mental Selves...some are already quite far along the way. The next stage will be causal consciousness...after which we leave the reincarnation cycle.

The reason why we do not want to mess with kundalini...in the form of practicing eastern type breathing techniques and chakra balancing etc...without a true adept at your side (and I shudder to think of those who claim to be this adept) who can guide you...is because activating the process can kill you stone dead :) ...because premature activation will burn all the lower molecular structure of your physical body from the inside out.

Be warned or enjoy the ride...

I love you all
Ray

[greybeard]

Kundalini The Liberating Force (Discourses, Questions and Answers and Views)

Preface from the book by the late Dr Goels
I spent time on his ashram about twenty years ago.
Chris

http://www.exoticindiaart.com/book/details/kundalini-liberating-force-discourses-questions-and-answers-and-views-IDK142/

Salutations to the Mother Kundalini the Divine Cosmic Energy! You are present in every existing being. You are the supreme knowledge, maya, intellect, memory and delusion. O Devi! You are the mind, the sky, the air, the fire, the water and the earth. Nothing is outside You. You are the Shakti of Shiva. Your Own blissful conscious form gives the shape of the world.

Kundalini Yoga is the most archaic form of spiritual sadhana practiced by Indian sages and saints to achieve Oneness with the Supreme Reality. Kundalini, the serpent power or mystic fire, is the primordial energy that lies sleeping or in dormant state at the base of the spinal column in all human beings. It is also the cosmic power in individual bodies. It is the spiritual potential of cosmic power. It has no form. But the mind has to follow a particular form in its initial stage. From this grosss form, one can easily understand the subtle formless Kundalini. Prana, ahamkar, buddhi, indriya, mind, nerves and all the five gross elements are all products of Kundalini.

Kundalini becomes active, when it is awakened. There are many methods to awaken the sleeping Kundalini, like Pranayama, Asanas, Meditation, etc. all such methods may sometimes lead to complications. One may also become a psychic patient. It can also prove fatal as one feels the urge to attempt suicide without any reason.

To awaken Kundalini Shakti, the safest way is to receive the grace of a blessed Siddha-Guru, who have already merged his identity with the Supreme consciousness, the Shiva, and have become one. When Kundalini Shakti gets active by a Siddha-Guru it automatically starts functioning. Kundalini becomes the master of jiva, whose goal is Shiva, the source of existence.

In this world, despite all that we achieve, we never feel contented and never attain permanent peace, happiness or bliss. Complete fulfillment is only possible when we realize our own self, when the Kundalini Shakti gets aroused in our bodies and the backward journey towards Shiva gets initiated, till one day, with the mercy of Kundalini, the jiva gets liberated from all the attachments with the world.

As this Kundalini Shakti is very powerful, no one else other than Shiva can control this Kundalini Shakti, when it is awakened. Under the guidance of a Guru, the movement of the Kundalini is controlled, the six spiritual centres get slowly pierced, the nervous system gets cleansed and the individual becomes transformed completely. He realizes his own Self at the sahasrara, the seventh spiritual centre and becomes One with the Supreme Consciousness, the Shiva. The main principle is that when awakened, Kundalini Shakti ceases to be a static power, which sustains world consciousness. Once set in movement, she is drawn to its other static centre in the thousand petalled lotus (sahasrara), by merging Herself and the jiva with Shiva consciousness or the consciousness of eternal ecstasy beyond the world of form. When Kundalini sleeps a man is awake to the world, when she wakes up, he sleeps, that is, he loses his consciousness of the world and enters his causal body. In this Yoga he passes beyond to the formless consciousness.

This is the glory of Mother Kundalini who through Her infinite grace and power gently leads the sadhaka from charka to charka and illumines his intellect and makes him realize his identity with the supreme Brahman!

Sadgurunath Shri Siddeshwar Baba was a God-realised Siddha-Guru. Thousands of seekers got their Kundalini Shakti awakened by His Divine Grace. He used to awaken the Kundalini Shakti by the divine touch of His right thumb at the Trikuti of His devotee and sometimes by His gaze. He had even initiated some sadhakas in their dreams.

The book on Kundalini enables aspirants and spiritual seekers as well as those interested in the phenomenon of Kundalini to understand the deeper implications of Kundalini awakening.

The first part of this book contains discourses of Shri Guruji delivered between 14 October 1992 and 15 March 1997 during the Meditation Camps held at Siddheshwar Ashram.

The second part contains queries from devotees about Kundalini Shakti and the answers/clarifications given by Shri Gurudev.

The book ends with salutations offered to the Guru who is established in knowledge and power, who grants both worldly prosperity and liberation, who has made it possible to realize Him and by Whom all this world animate and inanimate, movable and immovable, is pervaded.

[Deega]

I experienced this kundalini energy back in 2004.....it is an intense cosmic energy and yes it is what is referred to as the holy spirit. However there is more to kundalini than even the new agers want to see......from my personal experience kundalini is related to the planet saturn and there are implications there that can be even more disturbing........

Thanks Gloriouspoetry, may you extend your point of view relating to planet Saturn/kundalini.

Thanks

[Marianne]

I experienced this kundalini energy back in 2004.....it is an intense cosmic energy and yes it is what is referred to as the holy spirit. However there is more to kundalini than even the new agers want to see......from my personal experience kundalini is related to the planet saturn and there are implications there that can be even more disturbing........

Thanks Gloriouspoetry, may you extend your point of view relating to planet Saturn/kundalini.

Thanks

I would like to hear that too, Gloriouspoetry, if you care to share more.
Thanks for your post above.

[TruthSeekah]

Some awesome replies. I took a lot for me to actually come out and so that they are the same, thats basically blasphemy in most christian circles.

[Freed Fox]

Truthseekah, I appreciate your open-mindedness and ability to look outside of established dogma and convention in regards to your chosen faith.

Admittedly though, I only listened to half of the podcast you shared in the OP. While I found the material interesting, it was difficult to hear your guest at times. After turning up the sound however, there were occasional spikes in the guest speaker's volume which were quite abrasive to the ears... I was using headphones at the time, which may have been a factor, but for me it became a choice between not hearing everything the guest was saying, or enduring random aural assaults. :p

I'm not blaming you for this of course, but merely offering a suggestion to (hopefully) help you in the future. I don't know much about audio production, nor what you might be using in that regard, so I can't say much more. FWIW though, you have a nice voice, and your end of the conversation came through just fine. :)

I'm also happy that you mentioned the fact that snakes are symbolic of wisdom. That association seems to have been held by the more enlightened cultures and traditions through history, whereas the negative connotations appear to me to be a perversion of sorts, stemming largely from reflexive fear.

[GloriousPoetry]

For those who want more of an explanation regarding kundalini and its relation to the planet Saturn....

I won't go into the details of the 4 months I experienced this energy running throughout my body back in 2004; and I agree with Finefeather you don't want to activate it since it can be dangerous for some people. Kundalini energy is not for the curious!

Back in 2004 I recall cursing the masculine god and all its conventional B.S. and being attracted to a snake ring I still wear today on my left hand. Shortly after on good Friday to be exact kundalini released its fury in my body......what initially began as an overwhelming energy field of love that briefly allowed me to feel the fabric of life on a subatomic level turned into a cosmic ride of energies that even today I can't quite explain. Towards the end of my 4 month ride I experienced colorful rings emanating from the right side of my body( my right eye). I remember intuitively thinking that those rings were related to the planet Saturn.......on a soul level I knew they were not part of this world.
Since my 2004 kundalini experience I have read a lot of materials regarding this energy and I never read anything relating it to the planet Saturn until this summer. This summer I came across the first book that connects kundalini to the planet Saturn. The book is titled Our Universal Journey by George Kavassilas. In his book he describes each chakra point connecting to a ring in Saturn. He believes kundalini to be a chakra software program that looks like a rainbow body energy field that interfers with the light of the sun. He believes kundalini is yet another addictive synthetic program like conventional religions that keep humanity from remembering who we really are....as disturbing as this information was for me I feel there is some truth to it.

[greybeard]

Personal experience is good.
K awakened within me about twenty years ago and is on going---I still feel energy movement daily.
The first few year it was intense as it slowly made its way up through all the chakras.
Healing abilities came but they are spontaneous in that I cant make this happen though most times I am aware of the flow to another.
I ask for and surrender the end result--place my hands on or over and it may happen.
Sometimes there is no physical contact, no request from me and it just happens.

Adyashanti states that pre enlightenment and post enlightenment the energy flows as part of the process-- the body is changed (The Nadi) to accommodate a higher vibration. There is a paradox as enlightenment is also non locational.

As well as a physical alteration past karma comes up to be burnt of--not always pleasant.
One guru said "You are in the crucible being purified" words of course are open to misunderstanding, as what you truly are is not in any need of purification---the baggage which has accumulated is being discarded, is another way of putting it.

Enlightenment is viewed as kindergarten so it would seem. However because we live in a heavy density world that's as good as it gets here.

Guruji said that when Kundalini awakens you are in the taxi being driven home by Shakti.
Even that concept, belief system has to be released.
I had not even heard the word Kundalini before the spontaneous awakening.
I did yoga, meditation and was reading some spiritual books nothing intensive though.
Hope this helps.

Chris

[Jake]

If this does not make sense to you, just leave it, please don't send me a threatening letter :) I am not fighting with anyone...just offering you something.

Kundalini is not a holy thing...life is not holy...life is an atomic phenomena and each one of us is responsible for our own growth. There is no God watching you mess up your life, or to lead you by the hand to the promised land...get over it now :) ...it will only hurt for a while :)

Kundalini is the Holy Spirit if we are talking symbolically of the trinity...Spirit, Soul, and Body...or more accurately...Energy, Consciousness and Matter.

Kundalini is primordial energy which is the source latent energy in every atom in existence... including each one of us...because we are each a primordial atom. So if you want to call this God then that's ok, I guess. The reason why it has been symbolized as a coiled snake is because those who have seen it in higher dimensions have just tried their very best to describe it, in those bygone days. Actually what they saw...in their amazement was a mini universe. If you find a picture on the internet of our solar system, then that is what it looks like. It is the atomic center of our being...and in our physical bodies...although much smaller...it is found at the lower or root chakra. This is known in esoterics as the Physical Permanent Atom and in this state it is 1000s of times larger than the primordial atom which we are. This indicated how much 'covering' or aggregates of molecular matter, in different states, we have had to don to appear on earth as a human.

Kundalini process is a fission phenomena which takes place when we refine grosser molecular matter...in one of our 5 incarnating bodies/envelopes...to a higher state.
To understand this we first need to realize that we are each...at the core of our Being...an individual...separate...primordial atom...who has evolved through billions of years of consciousness growth to where we are now.
All the grand experiences people have, and think that they are experiencing some gift from the divine...and are surely making good progress...are mistaken, sadly...but there is a symbolic truth to this thinking, so we should retain it for those who still feel that way about it...like the good Christians etc.

At some point in our lives, after millions of years of 'spiritual' growth, we will all experience some breakthrough from a 'lower' physical consciousness to a higher level of consciousness in this order: Etheric consciousness, to Emotional consciousness, to Mental consciousness, to Causal consciousness. These experiences in our lives can take many forms and can come in the most unexpected moments. The fact that many experience them at moments of inner meditation or contemplation or reflection or revelation is simply because the time has arrived and they are ready to make the step into the next higher state...this also, can be termed enlightenment or ascension...what ever word we choose simply means we have moved from a lower state of consciousness to a higher state of consciousness. What the Indian gurus and others claim to be enlightenment is far far from cosmic consciousness...so do not become awed by this claim...they have not even reached true Nirvana yet.

So whilst kundalini activity is relavant in our lives it should not be seen as any major stage in our ultimate goal...just another small step along the way.

All human are now at least at the emotional consciousness level of our evolution...we are now in the process of becoming mental Selves...some are already quite far along the way. The next stage will be causal consciousness...after which we leave the reincarnation cycle.

The reason why we do not want to mess with kundalini...in the form of practicing eastern type breathing techniques and chakra balancing etc...without a true adept at your side (and I shudder to think of those who claim to be this adept) who can guide you...is because activating the process can kill you stone dead :) ...because premature activation will burn all the lower molecular structure of your physical body from the inside out.

Be warned or enjoy the ride...

I love you all
Ray

Once again, Ray, you have spoken music into my soul. Thank you. I, also believe that it is not about 'attainment'. If it is about anything, it is 'experience'. My take on the Kundalini Serpent Rising is only my view, based on a single experience. I endeavor to be able to explain it all with the same calm wisdom that you and Chris display. Bravo to everyone!

I had never thought of the nature of the Solar system looking like a snake, vs the nature of Kundalini! All of the many astral bodies/planets/moons, etc,, take their orbits around the sun (as gravity demands) but the Sun is flying through space as it makes its own orbit around the center of our galaxy. So,, all of the planets are actually trailing behind the sun, as they orbit, making it look like a snake! I suppose the nature of how Galaxies/Solar Systems organize themselves are somehow related to the Chakra systems throughout the universe, and that Kundalini is a UNIVERSAL topic. (and that beings, all throughout the universe will have different physical attributes, but the Chakra systems will be quite the same. ) Fascinating!! The Entire Multiverse is shaped like a snake!!

Here is a small animation regarding the shape of our solar system. (The earth does not orbit the sun!)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzP2snJWM0g

So an energetic event which spirals UP through the Chakras and spills over and out the Crown is a Kundalini event. Honestly, I don't do energy work on my Centers any more. Just mild stimulation through my body. The Energy centers can have a mind of their own! I do not recall ever hearing about someone dying from an energetic Kundalini event. But I have to admit, my research into the matter is still not to a point where I can wax too philosophically about it.

Back to the point of the OP. Symbolically, the Holy Spirit is the same thing as Kundalini. Two completely different religions, describing the universe using different language, but describing the same thing. The Holy Spirit of God, or the Universal Kundalini??

I tried to explain to some of the 'elders' of a church that I went to (loooong ago) that I was having OBEs and Energy Body events. They kicked our ENTIRE family out of the church. I do not believe that Christianity (overall) will be able to embrace such truths. However, things can, and always DO,,,, change.

Thanks for this thread!!!

Jake.

[Finefeather]

I do not recall ever hearing about someone dying from an energetic Kundalini event.
Hi dear Jake
This is quite an interesting phenomena and as we have seen sometimes...comes in all shapes and sizes :)
When it happened to me at age 27 I experienced it at the top of the head...strange and powerful, and quite pleasant nerve like impulses which felt like someone rubbing or massaging the top of my head.

Now consider these experience in this video and let your mind just wonder and take in the marvel of life...
There are others on YouTube for those interested...just Search "spontaneous human combustion"

Love to you
Ray

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIkE1VB7spI

[Finefeather]

Here is another one to watch before bedtime ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RESUDoOArI

[Jake]

I do not recall ever hearing about someone dying from an energetic Kundalini event.
Hi dear Jake
This is quite an interesting phenomena and as we have seen sometimes...comes in all shapes and sizes :)
When it happened to me at age 27 I experienced it at the top of the head...strange and powerful, and quite pleasant nerve like impulses which felt like someone rubbing or massaging the top of my head.

Now consider these experience in this video and let your mind just wonder and take in the marvel of life...
There are others on YouTube for those interested...just Search "spontaneous human combustion"

Love to you
Ray

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIkE1VB7spI

Okay, Now you have got my full attention! I have never really thought about SHC and Kundalini!

I found a page that describes old military experimentation into the phenomenon using meditation and sound. I don't want to get off subject, but,, Check it out! (http://we-make-money-not-art.com/archives/2012/03/spontaneous-human-combustion.php#.UgEt9_fn-M8)

Another Military application for exotic/esoteric truths.


SHC and the Bible:


Num 11:1 And when the people complained, it displeased the LORD: and the LORD heard it; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the LORD burnt among them, and consumed them that were in the uttermost parts of the camp.


Exekiel describes Lucifer's "spontaneous human combustion."


28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore will I bring forth a FIRE FROM THE MIDST OF THEE it shall DEVOUR thee, and I will bring thee to ASHES upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and NEVER [shalt] THOU [be] ANY MORE

This is pretty spooky stuff. I am willing to open my mind to the possibility of SHC being related to Kundalini. Fascinating... Thank you, Ray.

Jake.

[chocolate]

Thank you, Finefeather , for the information.
Finally some revelation happening for me. -> You helped me connect some loose dots.
Now someone may wonder if there is a connection between Prometheus/Lucifer (the fire bringers) (mentioned in another recent thread) and the Kundalini energy. !?

[Finefeather]

Exekiel describes Lucifer's "spontaneous human combustion."


28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore will I bring forth a FIRE FROM THE MIDST OF THEE it shall DEVOUR thee, and I will bring thee to ASHES upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and NEVER [shalt] THOU [be] ANY MORE

This is pretty spooky stuff.
Yes this is pretty spooky :)
We should keep in mind the time, era, when this was stated, as well as the state of consciousness of the people in those days...

SHC as depicted in the above videos is proof of this statement and is all related to extreme cases of inner emotional turmoil of which the result is the burning of the molecular structure of the body ONLY because the state of the body was not 'spiritually' refined enough to conduct the Kundalini or life force or more correctly the atomic fission process of evolution. This is also the exact same cause of cancer only much milder.

Under normal conditions Kundalini becomes one of the ways we are driven to evolve because it can pinpoint our weaknesses and attitudes which we need to address.
Failure to address our emotional and mental hangups and dogmas can lead to diseases of all kinds...depending on the chakra level affected...each chakra level is related to a state of consciousness. As an example...a woman who has breast cancer has more than likely got some issues with nurturing or the ability to accept or find the love she desires...and as we know the breast are in the heart area which is controlled by the thymus gland which is the 'heart chakra' in the physical.

That is all Kundalini at work...

When we progress 'spiritually' we also refine the atomic aggregate of our 5 bodies/envelopes...this allows Kundalini to move through us without much significance and if we do not have a noticeable Kundalini experience it does not necessarily mean we are not progressing...it could be just the opposite.
Most noticeable Kundalini experiences are merely the burning off of some dross matter in one of our bodies.

Safe practice of life force management involves amongst other things a very strict vegetarian diet...so we need to beware of this because meat eating produces lower type matter in our bodies. (I am not interested what anyone eats...your choice) This does not mean we cannot be consciously advanced if we eat meat so please don't get too involved with this unless you are really committed to rapid advancement.

The single most effective method of consciousness growth is refining our attitudes towards others and serving humanity with the aim to unity...because although we are individuals...and this will never change, despite the utterances of Indian Yogi Philosophy which insists that we loose our individuality...our goal is unity which means we bond and live in peace and harmony as one.

Take care now
Ray

Just a word of caution...I have not fully described Kundalini and its many facits and relationships with our planet and our solar system...just the immediate state. It is far more complicated than a few simple words.

[Izheheruvim]

Hi, there :)

I'd like to share my personal experience of Kundalini Shakti as well as some reflections. I hope moderators won't regard it as self-promotion since I couldn't help writing about things related personally to me, but rather as Self-promotion. Here's the read: http://www.mediafire.com/view/andxjieq0u37si8/My_Search_for_Truth.pdf.

Sincerely,
Izheheruvim (Slava)

[TruthSeekah]

Ok, The Video Is Back Up!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWdxegFiZhs

[MariaDine]

I had kundalini awakening during my yoga meditation. Mostly the energy was in the 3 eye .
After my first reiki initiation, the talents started to develop even more. But, as it was said, it's a ongoing process.

Take a look here :)
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62448-One-of-The-Best-Well-Kept-Secrets

[Akasha]

I experienced this kundalini energy back in 2004.....it is an intense cosmic energy and yes it is what is referred to as the holy spirit. However there is more to kundalini than even the new agers want to see......from my personal experience kundalini is related to the planet saturn and there are implications there that can be even more disturbing........

Just for the record, and I'm no endoser of astrological principles, but my kundalini experience in '99 coincided with my Saturn return (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_return). Well technically I was 27 years and 11 months old when it happened but that's close enough to raise an eyebrow in my book.

I might add that given the (epilepsy) medication issues that were also taking place within my life at the time, the experience ended up with me spending the next five months locked up under section 3 of the UK mental health act.....just a word of warning, but I would add that in hindsight it was, to this day, the single most profound and transformational experience of my life so far, resulting in me coming off an anti-convulsant which I had been taking twice daily for twelve years as well as transitioning to a vegetarian diet. I just wonder if the experience would have been all the less traumatic if I, like Finefeather mentioned in this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62016-The-Kundalini-Is-The-Holy-Spirit--What-Your-Church-Doesn-t-Want-You-To-Know&p=711886&viewfull=1#post711886), was already vegetarian when the experience took place.

I will also say that I fully concur with Finefeather's statements regarding SHC. There were several moments within that five month period whilst sectioned where I felt my nabhi (navel region) was literally going to burst into flames and consume me entirely. Perhaps this experience was exacerbated by the fact that I was still a carnivore at the time. It wasn't until several months later that I became a vegetarian. For the record, I am now a vegan.

Folk can read about some of my experiences here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?48678-Bible-Topics-and-Questions&p=561481&viewfull=1#post561481), and although I don't mention the Kundalini experience in that post, make no mistake, it was the chapel perilous of the whole saga. It just didn't feel appropriate, for reasons that Truthseekah has already mentioned, to describe it as such in what was a thread authored by an evangelical Christian.

[Izheheruvim]

Hello everyone

Just wondering, how do you know that what awakens in you is actually Kundalini shakti? Sushumna nadi or the central energy channel which is the major pathway for Kundalini is very close to Ida nadi and Pingala nadi, the left and the right energy channel respectively. In some practices they direct sexual energy along the spinal column to the brain and claim it to be Kundalini. Some people get heat waves rising along the spine and interpret it in a similar way. A friend of mine described his experience in which something rose along his spine to the back of his head, and he felt really dizzy. So, what is your notion of genuine Kundalini awakening experience?

[Izheheruvim]

Just to add, i find this talk about Kundalini shakti very insightful:

jZO-AkMtZEY

[Jake]

Hello everyone

Just wondering, how do you know that what awakens in you is actually Kundalini shakti? Sushumna nadi or the central energy channel which is the major pathway for Kundalini is very close to Ida nadi and Pingala nadi, the left and the right energy channel respectively. In some practices they direct sexual energy along the spinal column to the brain and claim it to be Kundalini. Some people get heat waves rising along the spine and interpret it in a similar way. A friend of mine described his experience in which something rose along his spine to the back of his head, and he felt really dizzy. So, what is your notion of genuine Kundalini awakening experience?

Wow, you have my attention! I have always wondered what is happening. There are many different energetic channels that can activate. There are different energetic 'sensations' that occur. Some will be directly energetic, and others will have more of a 'trance' flavor. Some are like being punched in the face, really hard. I do regular energy work. Just simple stimulation/activation exercises and routines. I have noticed over the years that simply 'stimulating', by moving energy, does not always have the robust effect that I would describe as a 'kundalini' event. I actually do not know what is being referred to. There is a more powerful 'spiritual' aspect of these types of energetic event. Sometimes, they have a life of their own, and seem to cycle without my doing anything. When it happens, it is always MUCH more powerful than I can ever muster with routine energy work.

Sometimes (deep relaxed trance, or between sleeps) I will very gently stimulate my crown area, which will sometimes 'awaken' (??) a full energetic event that 'pulls' energy from my 'base center', all the way up and out the top of my head, leaving me dizzy and paralyzed. However, other times, when I go through the same exact routine, nothing occurs. I realize that there is a discipline to be learned, but there is also a very natural element that I cannot put my finger on. When I DO have success 'supercharging' my system through simple stimulation, I am always trying to take notice, so as to attempt to reproduce the scenario.

Last night, I think I had another breakthrough... While laying there in a deep meditative trance, I stimulated my crown area as usual. Nothing. I was in a pretty deep trance, so I simply relaxed more and tried again, very slowly. I added another element to the routine. As I 'stimulated' and created a slight 'charge' in my crown area, I remembered to try and 'move' energy. Usually, when I do this, I simply move the spot that I am focusing on, and the 'stimulation' moves along with it,,, where focus goes, energy flows. That is what I mean when I say 'move energy'. Last night, I tried something new. I had already established a fairly obvious 'glow' throughout my body. Instead of 'moving the point of focus from my crown area'. I kept the point of focus there, and 'allowed' for the different channels to relax, and begin to cycle. Left/right/central,,, it was slow, at first,, as I held my point of attention on my crown area, and as the 'energetic system' began to flow,, the point that I held in my crown area IGNITED!!! And I was in the middle of a full energetic, full body event. (This has always occurred naturally, allowing for a free 'exit',, and out of my body.)

If I were to think of the simple routine energetic stimulation as a 'burning, red hot coal',, not enough to start a fire, but enough to stay glowing. Then the 'moving of energy while holding focus on that spot' was like blowing air onto the 'hot ember' and creating the conditions that IGNITE another system of energetic 'circuitry'. This would be the best analogy that I can think of to describe what is happening.

The system of energy that ignites and takes over is a very powerful, paralyzing, punch drunk, kind of energy. One cannot simply ignore something like this when it happens.

I have a lifetime of dealing with these types of energetic events. I still have no idea what Kundalini is. :)

Energetic systems by themselves are just energetic circuitry. There is a spiritual element that takes it all to another level. Described as the 'holy spirit' or 'kundalini'.. I do not have a word for it, other than... Whoah!!!

Can you go into more detail about what you know about different energy channels and Kundalini Shakti??

Jake.

[Izheheruvim]

Hi, Jake

My experience of Kundalini shakti is still limited, and the knowledge of subtleties is rather sketchy. Probably you wanna check with this treatise going really deep into the subject: http://www.bvbpune.org/dnyaneshawri-pdf/chapter-6.pdf.

But whatever i experienced can't be taken away from me either. When Kundalini rises i always feel that she begins from the bottom of my spine, sometimes she stops at my heart, but mostly crosses Agiya chakra (so called "third eye") and goes higher into Sahasrara. Often i experience more or less tension on the level of my cheeks and neck, and right portion of the head but it's something tolerable and seems to be receding over time. If you read "My Search for Truth" you might have got a glimpse of what is blocking these areas.

Whenever Kundalini rises i always feel more clarity and serenity (up to a complete stop of thoughts), so i never go dizzy or something like that. Also it's always a very joy-giving experience, that special kind of joy mixed with purity and sublimity. Among other things, often it's accompanied with feeling of cool (sometimes warm) vibrations on the hands and slight pressure on the crown chakra. But ideally as i heard from other people the pressure should go away, so it's a sign of a blockage.

In this state it's possible to communicate with Kundalini shakti by asking her questions, normally it shouldn't be something trivial. Her answer "yes" feels like an increase in her flow and coolness on the hands. For example, when i asked a question if Shri Ramana Maharshi was a highly-realized soul, the answer was definitely affirmative, even now when i'm writing these lines my Kundalini is responding with pleasant waves. When i asked whether what Jake described in his last post have to do with Kundalini, i felt pressure on my Sahasrara and not much activity on the part my Kundalini shakti. So i would interpret it as "no", though i still need to become much more sensitive to give a more definite answer.

Would you like to experiment? You can try to awaken your Kundalini with Shri Mataji and compare it with your usual sensations:

wIfjGQDAcdI

Good luck! :)

[Jake]

I definitely want to experiment. I will view the vids first, then decide. Sounds like it is right up my alley, thx. :) I will begin right away!! :)

Jake.

[Izheheruvim]

Looking forward to know the results! :)

[Akasha]

So, what is your notion of genuine Kundalini awakening experience?

I can only talk about my personal experience. I haven't been trained in the subject like yourself so, ultimately I am not in a position to judge whether or not my experience was "genuine" in terms of the text book definition.
The experience was not something I was consciously trying to attain. I wasn't conscious when it happened! Open but not conscious. I was the proverbial caterpillar, blissfully ignorant of what a nadi was, let alone which nadi the energy was traveling up but when I finally recovered from the ordeal, I was a very inexperienced butterfly, but a butterfly none the less. Sorry to be talking in riddles, but in answer to your question, one that awakens!

[Izheheruvim]

I can only talk about my personal experience. I haven't been trained in the subject like yourself so, ultimately I am not in a position to judge whether or not my experience was "genuine" in terms of the text book definition.
The experience was not something I was consciously trying to attain. I wasn't conscious when it happened! Open but not conscious. I was the proverbial caterpillar, blissfully ignorant of what a nadi was, let alone which nadi the energy was traveling up but when I finally recovered from the ordeal, I was a very inexperienced butterfly, but a butterfly none the less. Sorry to be talking in riddles, but in answer to your question, one that awakens!

Akasha, maybe it sounded a bit too formally but i didn't only expect to have references to books or some official sources (which could be many and contradicting to each other) :) It was more about experience, the outcome of this awakening. And your particular case my Kundalini is approving )) The point is when someone attaches a name to his or her experience, whether it's Kundalini awakening or not, then it entails a certain degree of accountability. Peace

[Akasha]

The point is when someone finds a name for his or her experience, whether it's Kundalini awakening or not, then it entails a certain amount of accountability. Peace

Absolutely.

[misfit312]

(Comes out of lurking mode;))Kundalini is something that interests me a lot.. I had an experience one day after a nap and I always wondered if it was Kundalini or another energy force...

After my nap I awoke and decided instead of getting up I would do some focusing on my Chakras..When I got to the crown I started to feel this energy start to build up and as it got more intense my toes started to curl,my back began to arch and all my muscles started to tense including my lips being pulled upward in a smile.. it continued building and felt almost like something in my body was fighting it then there was this major release of all tension which shot right down to my toes...My muscles relaxed and I tingled from head to toe with the most amazing feeling ever...It was like all my negativity was sucked right out of me and all that was left was pure bliss...

When I went to get up I was not dizzy but felt disconnected..Like someone who put on the wrong glasses..When I went to take a step my foot was hitting the floor before my eyes/brain said it should have,if that makes sense..This disconnected feeling and the tingling lasted for a few hours..It was a wonderful feeling whatever it was one I wont forget..

[mahalall]

Trifling with God.

tSLkn3OyPZU

The jelly in my Kundalini trifle would be Mooladhara. This lock seems to open up the sight of the sponge fingers (serpents). The cream of the trifle would be the expansion of awareness. The created trifle is still within the external. Is it not in the internal tasting-penetrating-breaking down and dissolving the cake of one structure that one experiences the light of god.

(oh no sherry in this trifle-the alcohol seems to kill those pineal spirits)

[mahalall]

Trivia trifle to one side,

"Sushumna nadi or the central energy channel which is the major pathway for Kundalini is very close to Ida nadi and Pingala nadi, the left and the right energy channel respectively" Izheheruvim.

Observations: Rapid awakening of Sushumna through burning off Ida nadi and Pingala Nadi influence with Bandhas can quickly expand the fields of awareness through ones pineal. Careful pursuit of this rapid path, as the perceptions can make it difficult to adjust back. Have recently been seeing Ida and Pingala nadi as a representation of our dualistic core. Interesting that with a basis of equanimity (upekkha) and impermanence (annica)to overcome the reactional nature or liking and disliking sensation one can pierce ones matter into it's finest elements. With patience and practise Sushumna's column of light opens up. First experiences of the phenomena arose by accident on a long retreat-i was going through the slow endeavours of working through lots of muddy earth element with this physical matter. Consciousness with earth element is a sluggish-still thing-one has to work careful-after a break-returned to sitting and sat on the wrong seat by mistake-on closing eyes immediately dissolved into sushumna's pillar. Realised the person who was sitting on this cushion was ringing at a higher energy than the earth element i had been with. Lifted up and moved back to my allocated cushion.

[Akasha]

.....sat on the wrong seat by mistake-on closing eyes immediately dissolved into sushumna's pillar. Realised the person who was sitting on this cushion was ringing at a higher energy than the earth element i had been with.

Sushumna's pillar took on a whole new meaning for a moment then.......


Lifted up and moved back to my allocated cushion.

roflmao....beautiful...so wish I'd been there.......with a video phone!! Please, please tell me someone captured the incident for spiritual posterity.

[Kalamos]

..........

[Izheheruvim]

Let me tell you something - all of you are just good for nothing. Really, just a bunch of useless guys with some stupid experiences... Now, read carefully. Or probably reread first two sentences just as a reminder of who you are. And now i'd like you to acknowledge that you're participating in an experiment, and the goal of this experiment is to measure how much you would react when someone insults you or your experience. It means that first two sentences were set up exactly for this purpose, and of course i didn't mean to say that. So just relax and take a few deep breaths if somehow you got disturbed. And in case if you did, there are certain implications to consider. Kundalini shakti is meant to connect you with your higher Self, and you should feel its presence in your attention up to the physical level, it should penetrate into your tissues. In other words, there should be a deep realization of your own Divinity that cannot be challenged or insulted, its silence is so thick that it should stand out whatever reactions ego might be having. And if reactions of ego do arise they should be able to disappear and heartbeat go back to normal within seconds, not minutes. So this experiment is to measure how much your Kundalini is established and how much you're able to feel security of your Spirit. If you were still joyful, peaceful and compassionate after reading first two sentences - i'd like to pay my homage to you and certify that your Kundalini awakening not only genuine but also quite sufficient, you really mastered it well. If you felt defensive - probably Kundalini is there, but raja guna is still too prevalent. If you mostly felt confused and a bit dispirited - probably Kundalini is there, but you have an excess of tamo guna. If you felt humbled down - probably Kundalini is there, and you're open enough for this energy to manifest more. Or, probably Kundalini is not there at all, and she still needs to be awakened and established.

[Freed Fox]

Izheheruvim, I want to sincerely thank you for the video you shared in post #26 (the 55 min Shri Adi video). It spoke to me deeply, powerfully. People use phrases like 'it resonated' or 'it struck a chord'...yes and yes; all of the above! I'm guessing not many have taken the time to listen to it yet, since Jake and I were the only two to 'thank' that post. At any rate, I want to heartily recommend it for anyone reading this who may be on the fence.

I must admit I have only superficially skimmed through the posts following it, however, largely because of my complete unfamiliarity with the Indian/Hindu terminology being used in this thread of late (so my lack of 'thanks' for those is not dismissal, or disagreement necessarily). It isn't due to prejudice, but just that they are so utterly foreign to my mind. I will likely return to this thread and re-read this page while looking up the terms as they come up, but as I understand it several of them have deep and/or complex meanings (so it might take a while).

In response to your 'test', my honest reaction was a mixture of confusion and compassion. My immediate thought was that it didn't seem to fit at all with the tone of your previous posts, or the material you were discussing. Had it been a sincere 'attack' on your part, I would have been a bit dispirited I think (that even to those well versed and acquainted with Kundalini and similar energetic concepts could fall to such a level of negativity) but also compassionate for you (as I would have seen it more as a projection of something you were going through on a personal level at that time). It was actually a surprise on two levels. For one thing, I didn't know where you were heading with that. For another, I can clearly remember a time, not long ago at all, that I would have felt insulted, both on my own behalf and for the others here whom I believe to be genuine, caring individuals. Glad that wasn't the case. :)

Anyway, thanks again to you, and the others here carrying on this conversation. As I said, I will return to follow up on the more terminology-laden posts above sometime soon.

[mahalall]

"Let me tell you something - all of you are just good for nothing. Really, just a bunch of useless guys with some stupid experiences..."izheheruvim
welcoming the keisaku ;)

[Kalamos]

..........

[Jake]

Okay, all you useless good for nothing, bunch of folks with nothing but some stupid experiences,,, ;)

I have been exploring the language that Eastern Indians use to describe the energetic events involved when one practices to stimulate energy centers and/or raise Kundalini. I get sidetracked with the terms, but I believe that we are talking about the same things. The technique described in the video in post #28 is similar to other practices/routines that can be used as a tool for tracking 'progress' or changes in the movement or flow of energy. Many times the eastern practices involve much more deeper conceptual thinking than in some of the western approaches. For example: The concept of forgiveness is recognized in the eastern process as a required part of the discipline needed to achieve a kundalini event or spiritual awakening. It is true in the western 'version' of things, yet the concept is a bit more evasive in western thinking, augmenting the process. I have been aware of main channels, left and right. As well as a central channel that runs from the base center to the crown. I am aware of channels running up/down the legs and into the base center. Also channels running down the arms that create a loop that stimulates/supplies the heart center as energy flows through the loop. I have found that this all goes hand in hand with the Eastern philosophies of spiritual/energetic flow. I am also aware of these little vibrating gizmos in my shoulders, just under my collarbone and about an inch into my chest. I am also aware of the 'pulsing' that occurs in an individually active center, and the dizzying effect of them all pulsing as a team. There is another entire level of energetic circuitry that ignites. I have to be careful when I do energy work. Sometimes it is too powerful, and I am aware of objects moving around me. When that happens, I am awakened into another level of 'the dream'. Hard to explain,,, it is a timeline thing. The manifestation of reality is becoming very clear to me. I have to be careful. If what is happening with me does not fit into the category of a Kundalini Awakening, then I have to surrender,,, I have no idea what people are talking about.

Here is a snippet of an article from a friend and Mentor of mine, Robert Bruce. Roberts experiences and mine are quite similar. He has a western way of describing things. Robert has spent a lot of time traveling, and discovering similarities between his concept of Energy Work with different (yet similar) systems of meditation and energetic practices. What is chi? What is prana? What is mana? What is the holy spirit? What is Kundalini? the answer is.... YES....


There is widespread misunderstanding about kundalini. Most seem to
think its a raise once and its done kind of thing. But this is not the case
at all. Kundalini is a discrete bioenergy phenomenon, much like a sneeze or
an orgasm. One could not say after a single orgasm that ones orgasm is now
raised and active. Neither could one say that after a single kundalini
raising, or related phenomena, that ones kundalini is now raised. Kundalini
must be raised many times and developed.

A single kundalini raised experience may last from 5 to 30 minutes. Longer
may be possible with higher development. The raised state is heavily energy
dependent, so when energy resources are reduced it just stops. But while it
is raised one becomes God, in a sense. Ones personality is still present,
but ones higher self rises very close to the surface indeed. And ones higher
self is about as close to God as one can get. So raised kundalini could be
called a full higher self manifestation.

The psychic abilities this causes are the natural abilities of a spirit, and
of ones higher self. They are not created out of nothing, they are freed.

Kundalini does change one and one does experience enlightenment during its
peak. But this is abstract enlightenment, eg, one knows everything at the
time because one is experiencing a level of God consciousness. But after the
experience one reverts to normal consciousness and knowledge. However,
something is then changed and ones inspirational abilities, plus all psychic
abilities, are greatly enhanced.

Then begins the staggered realization process where higher knowledge is
gained one small step at a time. But this progressive gaining of knowledge
will only bear true fruit if one has a sound belief system, and if one
applies the empirical process, eg, first build a solid foundation and then
add to it one thing at a time. If this discipline is not applied one is
likely to float away with the faries.

There are three main ways that kundalini will rise. The first is
spontaneously, in response to mental and emotional and spiritual states of
being, eg, Carl Jung had a spontaneous kundalini rising. The second is
through yoga practice where the body and mind are developed to the point
where kundalini will rise naturally. The third is to manually raise
kundalini by manipulating the energy body with body awareness techniques.
Ideally, a combination of all three would provide the best and safest
results.

To do this, one must first understand the nature of primary energy centers,
chakras, and the base center. A fundamental aspect of the base center is
that it acts a lot like an electrical capacitor. It is also heavily shielded
and earthed, in a bioenergy sense. Another aspect of chakras is their
ability to 'strobe'. This is a natural high level function. Once a chakra's
energy peaks, reaches critical mass, it strobes and releases all its energy
in one moment. The natural path for this energy is upwards, and as it floods
upwards it creates new high voltage energy conduits, and flash activates the
chakras above one at a time. This last can happen in several ways, depending
on how prepared the energy body is, but there is only one raised kundalini
phenomenon, eg, the full internal snake phenomenon.

When kundalini rises, it feels like a physical snake as thick as a man's
wrist forces its way up through the perenium; between anus and genitals. It
forces its way in 3.5 clockwise spiral up through the body. Ones internal
organs will be felt sloshing and moving as they are pushed out of the way,
as kundalini raises through the body, neck and head to the crown.

The internal snake phenomenon is caused by an internal manifestation of
ectoplasm. This is the only reasonable explanation.

A brilliant minds eye flash of light (like a giant camera flash) will occur
at the beginning of a kundalini raising. This leaves a feeling of mild
concussion on the face, as if one had been slapped. This is because the
whole face contains the support structure for the brow chakra, and is thus
involved with the brow center strobe. Note that the brow center strobe can
occur seperately from a kundalini event, eg, during the formation of the
vision screen of high function clairvoyance (what could be called a
Nostradamus level phenomena). Brow center strobes can also result from
various practices, including meditation and astral projection exercises. If
this happens, it indicates strong natural clairvoyance potential is present,
even if dormant and unrealized.

Normally the crown and brow will not fully activate during early kundalini
raising events. But once these activate it feels like ones skull vanishes
and from the surface of ones brain hundreds of fat, fleshy fingers, like
little snakes, are felt to appear. These feel as real as ones other fingers.
At this time, the brow fuses with the crown the one in the nose bridge, and
this new chakra structure is felt as a heavy, fleshy flap hanging down over
ones brow and bridge of nose. This feels as if ones skull (the entire area
above the hair line) has turned into a sea anenome.

These fingers (I think the eastern term is petals) respond instantly to
thought. If one things of any concept, the fingers form intricate geometric
patterns. I think this may be where mandallas come from. Note, if you read
the book 'Secret of the Golden Flower', in the commentary by Jung, he
explains that mandallas are resident in the human psyche in all races. I highly recommend this book.

Another interesting phenomenon here is that if one thinks of a living
person, these fingers form a pattern, but some also point to 'where' this
person is in the real world.

In order to raise kundalini, one must repeatedly raise a lot of energy to
the base center. Most of what is raised immediately leaks away, is earthed
away. But if this practice is continued, there comes a
point where the insulation is burned away and the base strobes. The first
symptom of this is a massive kundalini spike up through the spine. This can
be extremely painful, burning and electrical sensations. It is wise to stop
for a breather at this point, but without breaking relaxation discipline.

Note that if the body is not prepared by fasting and purging beforehand, the
bowels will turn to water and let go in response to full physical shock.
Now, if one begins raising energy again a minute or so later, another spike
will occur, just as strong but a bit less painful, and then the serpent will
be released. Ideally it will rise fairly rapidly and smoothly all the way to
the crown, in 3.5 clockwise coils.

I recommend 3 days fasting prior to an attempt, or other yoga purging practices can be used to achieve the same internally cleansed state. I find my energy peaks on the 3rd day. This helps as one needs every ounce of energy one can muster to raise kundalini.

A type of near death experience will usually occur. I don't have enough data
to say for sure, but this is a reasonable observation. In my case, I was
evicted from my physical body (I think it died of shock) and, in brief, I
was examinied by three deities (or ascended masters). Two shook their heads
and retired, but the third came down and helped me. He showed me my errors
and how to rectify my problems through spiritual cleansing (not physical).

When Kundalini has been more developed, eg, raised a dozen or so times (a week apart for each event is wise), and the crown becomes fully active, one will also experience the Aummmm. This is quite loud and if feels and sounds like the word 'Aummm' being said continually (one tone) by a man with a deep voice. This, I think, may be the underlaying sound (or Word) of creation.

Warning: This subject must be approached with great care and respect. This is a long term goal, a lifetimes work. Raising kundalini is a dangerous thing to do. And the less prepared and developed a person is, the more dangerous it becomes. Madness and or death can result, as can a variety of serious physical and mental disorders, if one who is unprepared does this. As said, master wake induced OBE first, as this is not only a more achievable goal, but it also helps prepare one for higher levels of energy body activation and kundalini.

A better look at Roberts concept of Energy Work can be found here. (http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/content.php?130-new-energy-ways) Robert and I agree on a more pragmatic approach based on the early and spontaneous events in our lives. I believe it to be the missing basic in everyones lives. I think that the days of offering a lifetime of study to this art are numbered. The realities of the non-physical are about to dawn. This is the big boom that everyone is waiting for. Imagine a worldwide, spontaneous Kundalinin event that nobody in the world could ever deny. What power in the worlds could cover it up. Personal experience will outway what can be read in a book, posted online, covered in the news, or talked about at work. The bar would be raised. Forever!!! :):):) I also believe it all to be our birthright. Not some attained height for the ordained. It is about experience and enlightenment, not attainment. AND it is there for the taking. An untapped potential.

Yet I digress,,

Calamus.. I have had different experiences with 'misty' or 'cloudy' entities, or patches of space. Sometimes when I walk into a room,, I am 'hit' with suddenly seeing the room full of smoke or mist or fog. kind of a grayish purple color. Nobody else can see it. I have to pretend not to be alarmed. I have to rub my eyes several times before it stops. Is that what you are talking about??



Cheers to all. I would love to see a glossary of Hindu terms with regards the energy body and the different channels and circuits.

Jake.

[Izheheruvim]

Hi, Jake

I wonder if you tried to awaken your Kundalini with Shri Mataji and what was the perceived difference (if any) with your own energy work.

[Kalamos]

..........

[Izheheruvim]

There is widespread misunderstanding about kundalini. Most seem to
think its a raise once and its done kind of thing. But this is not the case
at all. Kundalini is a discrete bioenergy phenomenon, much like a sneeze or
an orgasm. One could not say after a single orgasm that ones orgasm is now
raised and active. Neither could one say that after a single kundalini
raising, or related phenomena, that ones kundalini is now raised. Kundalini
must be raised many times and developed.

A single kundalini raised experience may last from 5 to 30 minutes. Longer
may be possible with higher development. The raised state is heavily energy
dependent, so when energy resources are reduced it just stops. But while it
is raised one becomes God, in a sense. Ones personality is still present,
but ones higher self rises very close to the surface indeed. And ones higher
self is about as close to God as one can get. So raised kundalini could be
called a full higher self manifestation.

The psychic abilities this causes are the natural abilities of a spirit, and
of ones higher self. They are not created out of nothing, they are freed.

Kundalini does change one and one does experience enlightenment during its
peak. But this is abstract enlightenment, eg, one knows everything at the
time because one is experiencing a level of God consciousness. But after the
experience one reverts to normal consciousness and knowledge. However,
something is then changed and ones inspirational abilities, plus all psychic
abilities, are greatly enhanced.

Then begins the staggered realization process where higher knowledge is
gained one small step at a time. But this progressive gaining of knowledge
will only bear true fruit if one has a sound belief system, and if one
applies the empirical process, eg, first build a solid foundation and then
add to it one thing at a time. If this discipline is not applied one is
likely to float away with the faries.

There are three main ways that kundalini will rise. The first is
spontaneously, in response to mental and emotional and spiritual states of
being, eg, Carl Jung had a spontaneous kundalini rising. The second is
through yoga practice where the body and mind are developed to the point
where kundalini will rise naturally. The third is to manually raise
kundalini by manipulating the energy body with body awareness techniques.
Ideally, a combination of all three would provide the best and safest
results.

To do this, one must first understand the nature of primary energy centers,
chakras, and the base center. A fundamental aspect of the base center is
that it acts a lot like an electrical capacitor. It is also heavily shielded
and earthed, in a bioenergy sense. Another aspect of chakras is their
ability to 'strobe'. This is a natural high level function. Once a chakra's
energy peaks, reaches critical mass, it strobes and releases all its energy
in one moment. The natural path for this energy is upwards, and as it floods
upwards it creates new high voltage energy conduits, and flash activates the
chakras above one at a time. This last can happen in several ways, depending
on how prepared the energy body is, but there is only one raised kundalini
phenomenon, eg, the full internal snake phenomenon.

When kundalini rises, it feels like a physical snake as thick as a man's
wrist forces its way up through the perenium; between anus and genitals. It
forces its way in 3.5 clockwise spiral up through the body. Ones internal
organs will be felt sloshing and moving as they are pushed out of the way,
as kundalini raises through the body, neck and head to the crown.

The internal snake phenomenon is caused by an internal manifestation of
ectoplasm. This is the only reasonable explanation.

A brilliant minds eye flash of light (like a giant camera flash) will occur
at the beginning of a kundalini raising. This leaves a feeling of mild
concussion on the face, as if one had been slapped. This is because the
whole face contains the support structure for the brow chakra, and is thus
involved with the brow center strobe. Note that the brow center strobe can
occur seperately from a kundalini event, eg, during the formation of the
vision screen of high function clairvoyance (what could be called a
Nostradamus level phenomena). Brow center strobes can also result from
various practices, including meditation and astral projection exercises. If
this happens, it indicates strong natural clairvoyance potential is present,
even if dormant and unrealized.

Normally the crown and brow will not fully activate during early kundalini
raising events. But once these activate it feels like ones skull vanishes
and from the surface of ones brain hundreds of fat, fleshy fingers, like
little snakes, are felt to appear. These feel as real as ones other fingers.
At this time, the brow fuses with the crown the one in the nose bridge, and
this new chakra structure is felt as a heavy, fleshy flap hanging down over
ones brow and bridge of nose. This feels as if ones skull (the entire area
above the hair line) has turned into a sea anenome.

These fingers (I think the eastern term is petals) respond instantly to
thought. If one things of any concept, the fingers form intricate geometric
patterns. I think this may be where mandallas come from. Note, if you read
the book 'Secret of the Golden Flower', in the commentary by Jung, he
explains that mandallas are resident in the human psyche in all races. I highly recommend this book.

Another interesting phenomenon here is that if one thinks of a living
person, these fingers form a pattern, but some also point to 'where' this
person is in the real world.

In order to raise kundalini, one must repeatedly raise a lot of energy to
the base center. Most of what is raised immediately leaks away, is earthed
away. But if this practice is continued, there comes a
point where the insulation is burned away and the base strobes. The first
symptom of this is a massive kundalini spike up through the spine. This can
be extremely painful, burning and electrical sensations. It is wise to stop
for a breather at this point, but without breaking relaxation discipline.

Note that if the body is not prepared by fasting and purging beforehand, the
bowels will turn to water and let go in response to full physical shock.
Now, if one begins raising energy again a minute or so later, another spike
will occur, just as strong but a bit less painful, and then the serpent will
be released. Ideally it will rise fairly rapidly and smoothly all the way to
the crown, in 3.5 clockwise coils.

I recommend 3 days fasting prior to an attempt, or other yoga purging practices
can be used to achieve the same internally cleansed state. I find my energy peaks
on the 3rd day.This helps as one needs every ounce of energy one can muster
to raise kundalini.

A type of near death experience will usually occur. I don't have enough data
to say for sure, but this is a reasonable observation. In my case, I was
evicted from my physical body (I think it died of shock) and, in brief, I
was examinied by three deities (or ascended masters). Two shook their heads
and retired, but the third came down and helped me. He showed me my errors
and how to rectify my problems through spiritual cleansing (not physical).

When Kundalini has been more developed, eg, raised a dozen or so times (a week apart for each event is wise), and the crown becomes fully active, one will also experience the Aummmm. This is quite loud and if feels and sounds like the word 'Aummm' being said continually (one tone) by a man with a deep voice. This, I think, may be the underlaying sound (or Word) of creation.

Warning: This subject must be approached with great care and respect. This is a long term goal, a lifetimes work. Raising kundalini is a dangerous thing to do. And the less prepared and developed a person is, the more dangerous it becomes. Madness and or death can result, as can a variety of serious physical and mental disorders, if one who is unprepared does this. As said, master wake induced OBE first, as this is not only a more achievable goal, but it also helps prepare one for higher levels of energy body activation and kundalini.

Well, i did an experiment, and again i was using Shri Ramana Maharshi as a reference point. Just a thought about him relaxed my Agiya chakra, and Kundalini shakti went up. When i put my attention on Robert Bruce i felt heaviness in Agiya. When i put my hands towards his photo i didn't feel particularly cool vibrations. This is as far as my spiritual experience is concerned. I apologize if it hurts your feelings, Jake, apparently he is an important figure for you, a Mentor as you put it. Then something is wrong either with my perception or with what he is up to, there's hardly a third option.

As for my understanding of spirituality, the way he writes about Kundalini, i.e. "Kundalini is a discrete bioenergy phenomenon, much like a sneeze or an orgasm", is speaking volumes about him. Kundalini is a very holy subject, and one needs to use appropriate words when describing her workings which should be far from vulgarity and profanity. There's a certain bioenergetic component in Kundalini rising since even the subtlest spiritual events have some gross physical manifestations (when saying "gross" i am referring to the densest form of reality, that is physical matter). But they cannot be reduced to and explained only in terms of "bioenergy", it would be too denigrating. How would you describe using these terms the state of spiritual elation, or sense of purity, or unconditional love, or very stable "pillar" of attention that cannot be distracted, for instance?

I personally have never experienced my Kundalini in the area of perineum. She is placed above Mooladhara chakra that indeed controls genitals and organs of excretion. But couple inches higher, that is sacrum bone, does make a difference. Also, one should realize that Kundalini is an intelligent, motherly energy of a very high spiritual caliber. It has at least two implications: she is not something to be manipulated with but rather one needs to learn how to surrender to her workings; and second, she won't damage her spiritual child at any rate. Sometimes people mix up Kundalini with protective responses when they try to awaken this energy in an unauthorized way. And these responses actually come from Mooladhara chakra. It can be compared to a rose: the flower-bud is Kundalini, and thorns are something to protect her. And one shouldn't really try to experiment with Kundalini without a proper understanding, i fully agree with that.

[Kalamos]

..........

[Jake]

Well, i did an experiment, and again i was using Shri Ramana Maharshi as a reference point. Just a thought about him relaxed my Agiya chakra, and Kundalini shakti went up. When i put my attention on Robert Bruce i felt heaviness in Agiya. When i put my hands towards his photo i didn't feel particularly cool vibrations. This is as far as my spiritual experience is concerned. I apologize if it hurts your feelings, Jake, apparently he is an important figure for you, a Mentor as you put it. Apparently something is wrong either with my perception or with what he is up to, there's hardly a third option.

As for my understanding of spirituality, the way he writes about Kundalini, i.e. "Kundalini is a discrete bioenergy phenomenon, much like a sneeze or an orgasm", is speaking volumes about him. Kundalini is a very holy subject, and one needs to use appropriate words when describing her workings which should be far from vulgarity and profanity. There's a certain bioenergetic component in Kundalini rising since even the subtlest spiritual events have some gross physical manifestations (when saying "gross" i am referring to the densest form of reality, that is physical matter). But they cannot be reduced to and explained only in terms of "bioenergy", it would be too denigrating. How would you describe using these terms the state of spiritual elation, or sense of purity, or unconditional love, or very stable "pillar" of attention that cannot be distracted, for instance?

I personally have never experienced my Kundalini in the area of perineum. She is placed above Mooladhara chakra that indeed controls genitals and organs of excretion. But couple inches higher, that is sacrum bone, does make a difference. Also, one should realize that Kundalini is an intelligent, motherly energy of a very high spiritual caliber. It has at least two implications: she is not something to be manipulated with but rather one needs to learn how to surrender to her workings; and second, she won't damage her spiritual child at any rate. Sometimes people mix up Kundalini with protective responses when they try to awaken this energy in an unauthorized way. And these responses actually come from Mooladhara chakra. It can be compared to a rose: the flower-bud is Kundalini, and thorns are something to protect her. And one shouldn't really try to experiment with Kundalini without a proper understanding, i fully agree with that.

No apologies needed, mate. :) I a just trying to find my way. I do not follow a set path, and I DO NOT accept any path that assumes mastery. As far as Mentorship goes, I personally believe that the most important aspect of Being a Mentor is BEING MENTORED. It is fundamental. Mentorship is a relationship. My path has been augmented by many folks using pretty words to try and describe something that is quite pragmatic. A profound and powerful energy takes over and runs its course. This happens with or without any sort of UNDERSTANDING of it all. It is why I do not use the word Kundalini. Many religious folks have (apparently) claimed the Mighty Serpent as their own. It is a much more sacred (not holy) concept for others than it is for me. I believe that no matter what platform is being presented, the same things are occurring. Historically, religion has tried to explain these natural energetic events, but they are wrapped in a perspective belief system that is thousands (of not more) years old. I was born with much of this knowledge, and I do not need the 'story' behind the magic... To me it is like when I watched 'The Life Of Pi'... Do you want to know the truth about man and God,, or do you prefer the 'story'...? I only know of what I know of. I cannot assume that what is occurring with me is what religion refers to as Kundalini, or the Holy Spirit. There exists no set of rules that the Mighty Serpent follows. :) I stand as a testament that the common fool can raise and sustain powerful/profound energetic states of expanded awareness, even unto unique one-ness with the universe. It is NOT for the specially ordained.

Do you believe me when I say that I never asked for any of this?? Much of my journey has spited me, because any information that I can muster from any religion is bathed in stories and dogma. I can't stand it. My experiences come to me wether or not I ask for them... I am not new to this game. I resented it at first. I lament anyone saying that there is a set path, based only in religion.

Robert Bruce will be the first to tell you that he only has a piece of the puzzle. I consider him a mentor, and a friend. We share a commonality with regards our Western/rogue attitudes. And we share commonality with regards the fully conscious Out-of-body-experience. I intend on taking this entire subject out of the hands of those who consider it supernatural. The mighty serpent fire cannot be contained in a box. I am Cherokee. I was born with great knowledge and no direction. (I wouldn't have it any other way.) I feel that we learn best from each other. :)

When you say that Kundalini is an intelligent motherly energy,,, I do not get that!! Unless she has grabbed me by my ear and marching me over somewhere to be punished.
When you say Chakra, I say Energy Center.

Powerful Bioenergetic states/sensations occur with or without a sense of purity or unconditional love. I do not mean to say it so bluntly. I only have my experiences. I am not a saint nor am I any type of master or Guru... I can tell you that you do not need a masters degree in theology to be ripped from your reality. You do not need permission from any priest, or master. And you will NOT find it written in a book.

I do not think that there is another person who can awaken someone else Kundalini. Even if it were possible,, it would be quite irresponsible, in my opinion.

Every time I ask for a definition of Kundalini,,, Nobody can come with a clear answer. Just parables. I am at a point in my journey where that is just NOT helpful. These ecstatic energetic states cannot be compared to anything that I have ever heard anyone try and describe.

My apologies if I am stuck in a Western mindset... I can't see any reason for us to continue to describe these types of things with religious jargon. This is dawning on us all.. I am NOT special. Neither are you, for that matter. It is the experiences and the need to interpret them for ourselves that is at issue,,, methinks.

I am going to put your writings at the top of my list,,, Will you do the same? www.thebookofjacob.webs.com download the pdf,, can't view it from there...

Part of my overall mission is that we learn from each other, not religion.

Cheers
Jake.

[edit]

Ray, where are you, brother? I feel a FineFeather moment coming... :)

[Kalamos]

..........

[Finefeather]

Just heard the cry of confusion in my mind :) So it is with kundalini.

The many myths and tales of this great force has created many diversions...much unnecessary hard work...and often great confusion.

We seek it, as some illusive holy grail, when it is already present in everything that exists.
Existence is impossible without it, and the great cycle of evolution of the Cosmic Being, who we are a part of, rides on this kundalini wave of ever expanding...ever seeking...ever growing...ever creating force, which we are all dependant on.

Like a powerful ocean wave...we will fail dismally in our attempts to prevent it from reaching the shores of the land of beauty and unity and love...were we all belong... But...beware of this great force for it tarries not with obstacles when we fail to follow it's call.

Kundalini is the driving evolutionary force of the one who we know naught about. The one who we are a part of...the one who holds us close to his heart...the one who knows us...the one who love us.

Kundalini is the flame which drives our will to reach out to infinite possibilities and experiences...and has no beginning and no end...we each have the choice of where this will may take us...and what the outcome will be.

Such is kundalini.
Seek it not...for it will seek you...when you are ready.

Much Love
Ray

[Sebastion]

Jake, I must say I agree with all that you have said in your last response as it was the same attitude I had all along in my journey to the godhead. I had heard much about the kundalini but none of it made much sense to me. When I started that journey, I assumed whatever was necessary that had to occur for me to accomplish that would take place at some point. My attention was never centered upon the kundalini as I viewed that as a side road to the primary goal. As it turned out, that was the wisest choice I could have made.

The most important aspect was not the kundalini. Why? Because my experiences showed me first hand that whatever the kundalini does or does not is not as important as where one places their "attention". My attention was placed solely upon finding my way to the godhead, regardless of what it would take to get there. If your attention is on the kundalini, then its not focused on what it is you are really trying to accomplish, depending entirely on what your goal is. It made no sense to me to try and raise the kundalini and then hope I would get what I was trying to accomplish.

It became paramount to learn how to raise one's awareness thereby expanding one's conscious awareness and the first discipline that needs to be mastered is mastering one's attention. My initial understanding of what kundalini could/would accomplish seemed to be haphazard at best regarding what one might expect from it.

I can't honestly/knowingly say I have ever experienced the kundalini and from what I have read about it, I have no desire to do so because it can do serious damage and mess one up big time. If anyone wants to travel the kundalini path, I wish them all the luck in the world with it. One can attain the godhead without it via astral/soul travel.

[Jake]

Just heard the cry of confusion in my mind :) So it is with kundalini.

The many myths and tales of this great force has created many diversions...much unnecessary hard work...and often great confusion.

We seek it, as some illusive holy grail, when it is already present in everything that exists.
Existence is impossible without it, and the great cycle of evolution of the Cosmic Being, who we are a part of, rides on this kundalini wave of ever expanding...ever seeking...ever growing...ever creating force, which we are all dependant on.

Like a powerful ocean wave...we will fail dismally in our attempts to prevent it from reaching the shores of the land of beauty and unity and love...were we all belong... But...beware of this great force for it tarries not with obstacles when we fail to follow it's call.

Kundalini is the driving evolutionary force of the one who we know naught about. The one who we are a part of...the one who holds us close to his heart...the one who knows us...the one who love us.

Kundalini is the flame which drives our will to reach out to infinite possibilities and experiences...and has no beginning and no end...we each have the choice of where this will may take us...and what the outcome will be.

Such is kundalini.
Seek it not...for it will seek you...when you are ready.

Much Love
Ray

Something about your words, gives me peace, Ray. Thank you.
Jake.

[Izheheruvim]

Greeting to everyone! :)

Whatever i had to say regarding my spiritual experience and understanding, what i was guided with and why i put so much importance on Kundalini shakti is described in my book. Since i wrote it a few months ago i didn't feel some profound differences. Probably my sensitivity a bit improved and heart opened a bit wider, otherwise it would be useless to repeat myself. If someone wants to read it the link should be still working.

As for your book, Jake, i did give it a look even before you mentioned it, i just followed the link in your signature a few days ago. I read about out-of-body experiences from the series of books by Robert Monroe in my late teens. I even tried to induce these states but it never worked for me. I was more successful with lucid dreaming though. But later my attention shifted to somewhere else, i got interested in being enlightened, and it became obvious for me that much deeper processes should take place to get me there than just astral traveling or lucid dreaming. The latter can expand awareness indeed but this is more a horizontal rather than vertical movement. Some core personality hardly gets transformed, at least in accordance to what Divinity would want to happen.

Also, in my opinion the dichotomy 'religion vs energy work' is really false. They do not contradict to each other, the former helps to guide the latter to its true destination, as simple as that. Besides, 'energy' is rather amorphous and hence non-committal a term whereas in this universe there is nothing neutral: something is either aligned or diverged from God, carried either with a centripetal or centrifugal force, it's all about the extent of it. As you see i adhere to a dualistic view. But once you deeply realize that certain things are totally anti-Divine with all fibers of your being you can't help being dualistic and discriminative.

And if i apply my discretion to astral traveling, or OBE, or seeing auras, for example, it's obvious to me that all these things can be accessible to rather malevolent people. That's why for me it wouldn't be a definite sign that such and such person is spiritually evolved. But Kundalini shakti is a whole different story since awakening this energy and establishing this experience is inversely proportional to the amount of negativity one holds, so to say. This is my personal experience and observation of how it works in others.

Inappropriate awakening of Kundalini can be dangerous indeed. But same applies to any kind of misuse or abuse that can give a negative result. If you do not follow a safety protocol when doing some potentially hazardous work, you can be mutilated. If you do not follow instructions or suggestions of someone who is more spiritually advanced, most likely you will get into a trouble and learn it hard way, if recovery is still possible. And if one is truly able to awaken someone's Kundalini without any complications and give instructions how to establish this experience, then this is a rather responsible step. At least it's no more dangerous than anything else in life that requires prudence.

I would really love to say that it's fine, just follow your path, you don't need Kundalini to connect with God, and there are many ways leading to the same destination. But when it comes to the subtle energy system there are only three major 'pathways' your attention can go to, and only the central channel can lead you to Sahasrara, or the seventh energy channel on the top of the head. And the distance between Agiya and Sahasrara can be only bridged with Kundalini shakti, there are no detours or some alternative 'energy work' that can be done to this effect. The only purpose of Kundalini is to awaken some day, and her single destination is Sahasrara. It may sound a bit categorical, especially for a Western mind, but this is undoubtedly so, whether it likes it or not. But if you consider that many things in life have unique purposes and have no other substitutes to do some work, then Kundalini is not really standing out in her uniqueness. I hope that these words will also give you some peace :)

[greybeard]

It would seem that an awakened Kundalini is at least partly due to merit accrued in past lives and this life.
It is a major blessing though woe betide anyone who thinks they brought it about or own it.
When Shakti Kundalin starts the homeward journey she is in control and will bring all manner of things into your life for your spiritual evolution---you are in the crucible getting the impurities burnt off.

Many things will surface---situations will arise which you wish hadn’t, but its all part of the process.
Its a double edge sword in that shiddis which seem to be great gift are to be let go of, ego will claim to be the "great healer" or lay claim to anything else associated with this.

The only desire that is helpful is to Know God, to know the Truth.---How may I serve you Beloved?
One is prepared to surrender everything to this cause.
Yet "God" is kind and everything you need will come to you.
Does a good Mother not know what the child needs without being nagged at?
Its a complex subject but honestly you dont need to know anything--- just trust in Shakti.

Chris

[Jake]

It would seem that an awakened Kundalini is at least partly due to merit accrued in past lives and this life.
It is a major blessing though woe betide anyone who thinks they brought it about or own it.
When Shakti Kundalin starts the homeward journey she is in control and will bring all manner of things into your life for your spiritual evolution---you are in the crucible getting the impurities burnt off.

Many things will surface---situations will arise which you wish hadn’t, but its all part of the process.
Its a double edge sword in that shiddis which seem to be great gift are to be let go of, ego will claim to be the "great healer" or lay claim to anything else associated with this.

The only desire that is helpful is to Know God, to know the Truth.---How may I serve you Beloved?
One is prepared to surrender everything to this cause.
Yet "God" is kind and everything you need will come to you.
Does a good Mother not know what the child needs without being nagged at?
Its a complex subject but honestly you dont need to know anything--- just trust in Shakti.

Chris

Thank you for that, my friend. A very profound truth,, "woe betide anyone who thinks they brought it about or own it."

This is my attitude also. I generally go silent when folks talk about it, clearly they can't be referring to what regularly happens with me. It is terrible/wonderful/breathtaking/devastating,, leaves you wondering/leaves you stuttering. These are much more powerful energetic 'takeovers' than anything I can ever muster with regular energy work techniques. I am not talking about mild tingling, or maybe some stirring on the surface of the skin in areas, or a bit of heat from the top of my head. I am talking about life changing events!!! I am talking about being ripped from my reality, in a tidal wave of powerful vibrations and ecstatic energetic states. Again, I have yet to hear another single person describe theses kinds of powerful events. Of course they go hand in hand with expanded awareness. I don't consider it a spiritual thing. If it is spiritual, then the spirits are man-handling me, with no regards how I feel about it. Depending on my own state of mind,, It can be downright fecking dreadful. I have spent much time in my waking, walking life,,, NOT sure if I am dreaming or not. That sensation has overcome me now, and I do not remember what it is like outside of a dream. Will you let that sink in??? Have I become a functional psycho?

It used to be that I would have dreams that would manifest in reality. Now,, everything manifests in front of me. This is NOT what I asked for. Throughout my life I have wondered what folks were praying for. I always prayed for Strength, knowledge, understanding, wisdom, love, joy, etc... It was natural for me to pray for non-physical aspects of life. I did not know that others were praying for Money, Cars, Jobs, Houses, Boats,, etc.. Well that is just great. Do you know what happens when you pray for strength,,,,? The universe knocks you on your ass, and makes you learn how to get up!!! Do you know what happens whey you pray for joy??? The universe makes you experience depression and despair!!!

While watching some of the Vids from the gal mentioned earlier, I was concerned when she began showing the technique where you use the palms of your hands, (one then the other) to feel 'heat' coming from the crown. I was concerned because she said something about cooler temp, meaning that you have forgiven, and a warmer temp meaning that you have NOT. I am at a complete loss as to what she is trying to say... Is she saying that Kundalini will NOT rise, if you haven't undergone the 'required' inward journey that normally deals with the shedding of personal baggage? Kundalini rises either way.. It does for me!! I also get quite confused when people talk about forgiveness, humility, etc.. with regards energy. It exists either way. I do not believe it cares about ones personal journey. It is what it is. Do not challenge it unless you are ready,,, and you are NOT ready. (speaking for myself, here. :))

I am angry because nobody has ever been able to relate to my experiences. People talk about Kundalini as if it is some sort of holy spirit,,, (oops didn't even mean to say that) or holy entity.

It has manifested for me as a torturous bully, dragging me through the gravel kicking and screaming,, with no teacher in sight.

Don't get me wrong,, my attitudes are changing. The overall experience is amazing and wonderful. NOW... I have gotten used to it. There is a prize at the end. The full conscious OBE!!! Perhaps it is a psychological escape from reality by a weak mind. Of course it is not. It is the OBE that has kept me sane. It is the OBE that has kept me positive. The amazingly fulfilling journey starts with the OBE. Not the distracting energetic pulsing, vibrating, burning, humming... I am angry also because only about a 3rd of all Astral Projectors ever report any type of energy body phenomenon... I guess I am one of the lucky ones.. (unlucky ones,,, dunno the difference, at this point.)

It makes sense to me that there is a past life connection. I woke up into this life with a certain commitment to refuse it all... My commitment failed, and I was beaten into submission.... (sub-mission??)

I have many many questions to ask about these profound energetic states, but I still cannot find someone else who experiences them. So I am still on my own!!!

I have no idea why I am still in a bit of turmoil over it all.... A lifetime of experience has shown me that this is MY experience. when someone else begins talking about it,,, it seems like they are describing a GUESS. I am not describing any such thing. This is a real life ordeal for me. No guidance. This would have been much easier for me if the only avenues of knowledge were not claimed by a religion. I do not belong in a temple or mosque or church or on a little mountain in Tibet!! I begin to understand the journey of those who tried teaching these things to others. How do I tread? Lightly??? My lives journey has brought me to this place. My task is to inspire folks to embrace their own experiences. INSPIRE them... not MAKE them. It becomes quite frustrating.

Izheheruvim... I am committed to learning from your work. I hope it is all in there. I refuse to deny knowledge or wisdom wherever I can get it. And surely my knowledge of Kundalini needs to be cross referenced with many of the masters of old. I am stubborn.. Have ya noticed?? :) I won't attempt a rebuttal to your posts until I have finished reading your words. I must try and do you that bit of honor. I am only a learner. A learner with much knowledge. Please bear with me, as I do NOT know it all...

Chris,,, thank you for your words. I will get it... :):)
Jake...

I try and stay away from the subject because it is much more sacred to others than it is to me. (The subject, not kundalini itself) Yet, I CANNOT stay away from the subject. It seems that I will have to cross religious lines, it I am going to learn about Kundalini.

[greybeard]

Hi Jake
This is worth a look.

http://www.esaiashram.com/bsgoel.htm



Dr. B.S. Goel

(1935—1998)

This was my Guru--- now deceased.

However K awakened spontaneously without me knowing what it was.

Chris

Dr. B.S. Goel now known as Shri Siddheshwar Baba was born on 25th March in 1935. Since childhood he was attracted towards spirituality and often witnessed the divine communication through dreams. He completed the Masters degree in History and Political Science and actively joined Marxism. In 1964 he pursued Ph. D from Delhi University and joined the service in NCERT, New Delhi.

Dr. B. S. Goel was a very rare individual. He was chosen by the destiny to experience and reveal to the world, the deepest secrets of various aspects of mind and cosmic energy (kundalini). His experience of awakening was quite amazing as described in his book titled “Psychoanalysis and Meditation - Part-II”.

Dr. Goel has a profound insight into the awakening of the kundalini because he has experienced it. When he was going through the opening of his kundalini, he went up and down India looking for someone who could explain it. He found many people that had theories. However they did not know. Dr. Goel tells of his unusual and sometimes painful experiences on how he came to be realized through the awakening of his kundalini.

Kundalini is a Sanskrit language word that means coil. At the base of the spinal cord every human being has a powerful, yet dormant source of energy that lies dormant in the perineum. This source is known as the Muladhar Chakra from which three subtle channels known as Naadis rise up through the spine and reach the brain. Although most people are not aware that the Kundalini exists, Kundalini is well-known by serious spiritual seekers.

Traditionally, it is believed that after being awakened, Kundalini will be able to remove the knots of the major chakras, cleanse, open and develop the chakras until they are fully developed into full-blooming lotus forms. By the time the Kundalini finishes opening, cleansing and developing all of the chakras, the core of the Kundalini will reach the crown chakra, the chakra at the top of the head. This is the time when one attains the highest spiritual achievement.

Kundalini requires years to cleanse, open and develop a chakra completely, and the process is done in a bottom up in sequential order. So, as the Kundalini starts at the lowest chakra and spends a few years at this base chakra, it will take decades before the Kundalini can start working at the crown chakra, the 7th chakra.

Thus including the Muladhar there are various Chakras in which very powerful energy lies dormant and once they are activated a human gains amazing divine powers like Telepathy, Hypnotism, Clairvoyance. In fact complete success in life in any and every sphere can come only through the activation of all the Chakras and it is with this aim that true Yogis remain engaged in Sadhanas (spiritual practice). But this process can be very intricate and difficult unless one is helped by an enlightened Master who has his own Kundalini fully activated, who is aware of all the processes of activation and who can activate the Kundalini of others.

In the early seventies when he was 35, Dr. Goel was in a severely depressed state when his Guru appeared in his dream, and told him that Psycho-analysis and Marxism, both of which he had embraced, were false ways to happiness. His Guru told him the only path to inner peace and joy was through God. In 1975 his third eye opened and his kundalini was aroused. In 1982, he established an ashram named Sri Siddheshwar Ashram (Third Eye Foundation of India, village Bhigan, District Sonepat, Haryana, India) to help and guide other aspirants that where having kundalini experiences on the spiritual path, and called it Third Eye Foundation of India.

Dr Goels He attests to the truth that the Guru or God can and will raise the individual aspirant from the gross plane of existence to sat-chit-ananda, the state of pure consciousness. Dr. Goel has a description about the opening of his third eye and the suffering he went through as his ego was destroyed and remade. He also explains how this kundalini experience can be different for different individuals.
Thus the knowledge he disseminates through his books tends to go beyond the knowledge given by “Freud and Jung” Everything that is written in his books has been seen, experienced and lived by him. His books are likely to provide answers to most of the questions related to the Psycho-Spiritual sufferings and the inner search of man. Dr. B. S. Goel has written several books, the most famous is the "Third Eye and Kundalini - An Experimental Account of a Journey From Dust to Divinity." :

[Kalamos]

..........

[Akasha]

Jake,

A "tortuous bully" may well be a far more effective conduit for transformation than some overweight guru. You never know. No pain no gain and all that.

Just because you haven't found others to empathize with your experience doesn't denigrate it one iota. If we all shared the same textbook experiences, life would get boring quickly.

Has it occurred to you that, perhaps, folk aren't describing the experience in a similar fashion to how you tasted it because it is simply beyond words?

Ultimately the experience will be validated through your transformation.

For what it's worth, much of what you have written tallies with what happened to me, but personal experiences are just that, no matter how much folk try and label them into pigeon holes of generality.

[Izheheruvim]

I agree that the extent Kundalini shakti can be awakened and established depends for the most part on the 'accrual' from previous lives. And i hope i didn't make an impression that i brought it about or own it. But what Shri Mataji has brought is something unique indeed, that is en-masse and effortless awakening of this energy as well as instructions how to establish her in a gradual manner using "vibratory awareness", among other things. If you knew more than you know about this process you wouldn't be too quick judging the significance of coolness or warmth, forgiveness, humility, etc., however foreign or petty it may seem to you. Also, and here i'm mostly addressing to Akasha, if you were far-sighted enough you would try to see beyond the weight which is quite an irrelevant attribute in spirituality. You wrote me a private message and expressed your concerns regarding Shri Mataji's weight, and i did my best answering to you. The fact that you raised this topic here just showed your caliber i regret to have got a better idea of. You could open a new thread discussing the link between physical weight and spiritual advancement since i would prefer not to do it here. But i bet you won't be able to establish a reliable correlation. The way you spoke of someone who had awakened my Kundalini and is guiding me in my spiritual journey, despite her "excess weight" that i personally find rather appropriate for an aged lady and motherly figure, raised my anger which is quite an achievement i must say. I would suggest you to say, not to me but inside yourself, something like that: "If i'm wrong in my judgement about Shri Mataji, if my mind is still rather superficial and is not able to penetrate through the veils of maya, i ask for apology". If i'm not mistaken, Jake also quite frivolously referred to Shri Mataji with something like "gal". It's not an appropriate way to be addressing someone who could be potentially a highly realized saint, at least so far you weren't able to disprove it. You could challenge me personally in whatever way you wish but i won't tolerate a disrespectful attitude to my guru who i have all reasons to treat with reverence. If you don't try to consider this point then nothing bad will happen, of course, but you would simply lose me as a companion in conversation.

I don't have time for a detailed answer to all points raised. But to make it quick, sensations of coolness or heat by no means exhaust Sahaja Yoga. It's just one of the modalities of communication that Higher Self uses to pinpoint what he sees as auspicious and pure or as the lack of thereof. But this modality if properly established is never wrong. On the advanced level one is supposed just to know things bypassing those sensations. Also, in the very beginning normally just one or a few strands of Kundalini rise, so one shouldn't really expect some mind-blowing experiences or instantaneous enlightenment. Though some individuals do have rather profound experiences mostly due to their advanced level to begin with. The rest i will try to address next time i sit in front my laptop.

[Izheheruvim]

I believe that to give our discussion a proper direction we should first agree or probably disagree on what enlightenment essentially is, what should happen to the enlightened ego, emotions, feelings, perceptions. And from that we can judge, if we happen to agree, what should be the workings of Kundalini and which experiences are mostly conducive to this effect.

If i keep referring to Shri Ramana Maharshi, higher Self or sense of "I" that doesn't vanish or get disturbed should replace much more superficial and wavy ego. When something like that happens one truly finds ground under the feet and all self doubts and self inquiries get gone. This Higher Self apparently sustains itself, it doesn't need to seek any support or justifications for its existence and is the source of tranquility and bliss. There's a Sanskrit term for this state - Nirvikalpa samadhi or "doubtless awareness". In turn, there are different stages of Nirvikalpa when awareness becomes more and more refined and attuned with Divinity but all of them would share the common similarity - one's unity with Higher Self, or Atma, or Spirit cannot be challenged, the challenge itself would cause no ripple deeply inside or even on the surface. Just as a test: ask yourself "Who am I?" and if your inquiry naturally and probably instantaneously gets dissolved in your inner peacefulness and cheerfulness then most likely you are in Nirvikalpa. Probably now you should better understand why i challenged, even insulted you in one of my posts. It was done to test your alignment with the higher Self as a result of all experiences you have gone through. And if you felt wobbly, shaky, angry, etc., anything but peace, then whatever you had experienced so far didn't bring you to Nirvikalpa. So again, i apologize if you took this test personally. But now you should see the reason behind it.

I shared my understanding of how ego becomes enlightened here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.&p=723607&viewfull=1#post723607. Maybe just one thing to consider: the reactivity or excitability of ego should decrease as a result of enlightenment since it goes on a different "higher frequency" level. If you are immersed in pure existence and bliss, what would really excite you, especially on the gross level? That's why appreciation of things also becomes different, with subtle beauty, purity, nobility, intelligence (as distinct from intellectualism) innocence becoming the major source of enjoyment. It's like you completely lose taste to food from McDonald's and start coming only to some really high-quality restaurants. This kind of appreciation needs corresponding feelings and emotional states. And if appreciation or sort of "discrete" seeing would come from pure awareness part of the Higher Self, emotional states would come from Kundalini shakti. I believe that Shri Gnyaneshwara said that Kundalini eventually should be the only remaining emotion. This is to address Jake's inquiry of what Kundalini essentially is.

What should happen ideally in Sahaja Yoga - one from Nirvichara samadhi or "thoughtless awareness" should gradually shift to Nirvikalpa samadhi. To this end a certain purification process in the subtle energy system should happen which, technically speaking, would determine how many threads of Kundalini will rise. There are certain methods and treatments how to bring balance to the subtle system, and "vibratory awareness" plays an important part here. All energy centers and channels have certain innate qualities that should be respected and cherished. By knowing these qualities and their sources in the subtle system, one can use vibrations to see if there is any violation or deviation from what ideally should be, and adjust his or her attitudes accordingly. For example, if one feels heat on the ring finger on the right hand, it would signal too much self-righteousness, stubbornness, arrogance, intellectualism. Since there are ten fingers aside from certain areas om the palms you can imagine that vibrations can present numerous causes for correction. But all of that should serve the ultimate purpose of reaching Nirvikalpa and advancing even higher on this platform. I hope i was able to present my ideas clearly enough.

[Izheheruvim]

I also feel compelled to say that i didn't feel a positive reaction of my Kundalini shakti about Dr. Goel and especially Sai Baba who was his teacher. I understand that i'm playing a role of a 'splinter' or bugger here and may seem to be too pretentious, ownership of truth, so to speak.. But if i have to choose between political correctness and what i deeply perceive as being true, i'd choose the latter. And again i apologize if these words are hurting someone, at least you should look into my intentions. And i prefer to play with open cards. Well, if i'm not true about these individuals, then let's something terrible happens to me, i will accept it as a punishment for disseminating untruth.

[greybeard]

All I can say is that is that I had profound experiences on Dr Goel's ashram-- the energy was high there.
As to the validity of either Sai Baba or Dr Goels I dont know and dont mind as all is God.
All I know for sure is I exist.
Enjoying this thread in its entirety.
Namaste

[Izheheruvim]

Greybeard, we could discuss your statement "all is God" in more detail but i guess we need a different thread for that. If you want you can suggest a more appropriate venue :)

[greybeard]

Greybeard, we could discuss your statement "all is God" in more detail but i guess we need a different thread for that. If you want you can suggest a more appropriate venue :)

Respectfully there is a mass of videos posts comments on the subject "One without a second" --though perhaps not a specific post on the transcending the ego thread.
Discussing something like that is head stuff--- Ramana Mahrshi recommended as did the atmas --meditating not seeing God as separate in any way.
Nasargadatta book "I am That" the title says it all.
In india enlightenment can be called Godrealisation.
The mystic an truthfully say " I am the totality all of it"
Its not something that can be debated as such either it is so or it isnt.
In can only be know through direct experience which I have not had but I do trust some accounts I have read.
There is no one left to claim enlightenment.
There is only One Self.
These seem consistent statements pointing to only God is and when I use the word God I mean "That which I am". Not separate in any way.

Can put up links to threads here as the internet is unusually slow.

Namaste

[Izheheruvim]

Namaste

Let's digress for a bit even though it can be considered an elaboration on our main topic.

I'm not a proponent of "the second" that would be as eternal and mighty as the First. Gita says something like this: "All creatures are residing in Me, but I am not residing in all creatures". I believe it nicely summarizes my point in this respect. That's why I adhere to both dualism and Advaita, i'm sure you can appreciate the humor part :)

[greybeard]

Namaste

Let's digress for a bit even though it can be considered an elaboration on our main topic.

I'm not a proponent of "the second" that would be as eternal and mighty as the First. Gita says something like this: "All creatures are residing in Me, but I am not residing in all creatures". I believe it nicely summarizes my point in this respect. That's why I adhere to both dualism and Advaita, i'm sure you can appreciate the humor part :)

I appreciate that and I posed something similar in thought on the thread I mentioned.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.&p=734058&viewfull=1#post734058

Tim's thread in spirituality section is a direct experience of that which can not be spoken of.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43027-Enlightenment-A-direct-succinct-account-of-what-occurs...&p=456904&viewfull=1#post456904


Page 42 Collected works of Ramana Maharshi
"What exists in truth is the Self alone.
The Self is that where there is absolutely no"I" thought
That is called "Silence"
The Self itself is the world, the Self itself is "I"
the Self itself is God,all is Siva, the Self"

This seems very clear and in line with my original statement "All is God"
As said this is my belief accrued through reading and reading for God know how many years but it is not my personal experience.
It seems simple enough--- all that is needed is to let go of the thought that there is a me who is the doer and question "Who am I?"
I am not aware of the answer as yet.

Regards Chris
Namaste

[Akasha]

If i keep referring to Shri Ramana Maharshi.....

From http://bhagavan-ramana.org/diet.html (http://bhagavan-ramana.org/diet.html)


Sri Ramana Maharshi's diet recommendations

Sattvic food in moderate quantities

In general the Maharshi refused to give instructions for physical discipline.

When asked about postures for sitting in meditation he replied simply: "One-pointedness of mind is the only good posture."

When asked about celibacy he would not enjoin it but said that married persons also can attain Realization.

But when asked about diet he quite emphatically prescribed vegetarianism: "Regulation of diet, restricting it to sattvic (i.e. pure and vegetarian) food taken in moderate quantities is the best of all rules of conduct and the most conducive to the development of sattvic qualities of mind. These in turn help one in the practice of Self-enquiry."

The passage quoted continues with a Western lady pleading that a concession should be made for Westerners and with Bhagavan refusing to do so. It should be added that in 'sattvic food' he included milk, though an animal product, but not eggs, which are considered too stimulating or rajasic.

It was characteristic of Bhagavan that he would never enjoin vegetarianism on any devotee unless asked, but if asked he was quite categorical about it. It often happened in his lifetime, as it still does today, that even without asking, his devotees would develop that aversion to animal food which I have mentioned as a general feature in the aspirant in modern times.

In conclusion, it can be said quite definitely that vegetarianism is beneficial to those who follow a spiritual path in the conditions of the modern world, and especially to those who aspire to follow the path of the Maharshi.

~ Arthur Osborne

whilst on the other hand, from http://sahaj-az.blogspot.fr/2009/04/veg-and-non-veg.html (http://sahaj-az.blogspot.fr/2009/04/veg-and-non-veg.html)


Question: Is it important to be a vegetarian, Mother?
Shri Mataji: Not at all. You see, in Sahaja Yoga we don’t eat animals which are bigger than us and you need not eat animals in case you are a person who requires more vegetables. So depends on your constitution. Now supposing a person who is vegetarian and gets diarrhea, he should stop. I’m not a vegetarian.
(Public Program, Holland Park School, London, 27/9/2000)

Dear Izheheruvim, my apparent disrespect for Shri Mataji is perfectly in balance with her disrespect for most if not all the masters who went before her when one ponders her statement above in the context of Sri Ramana Maharshi's statement above that.
She even had the privilege of studying at Gandhi's ashram and yet still saw fit to reject his dietary principles, at her peril judging by her shape.
But it goes further than that. When someone of her apparent stature and responsibility advocates eating meat, even if it is animals smaller than oneself, which in her case would mean practically any beast, the scale of the suffering and senseless slaughter that would ensue, courtesy of all her devoted followers, cannot and will not be overlooked.
In previous posts you spoke of kundalini awakening being tied to responsibility. I would posit that Shri Mataji profoundly shirked hers in this regard, bringing her credibility into question as a result.

My "kundalini" experience, if indeed it was such a thing, although you yourself seemed to verify it as such in a previous post through your "Sahaja divining method", directly resulted in "that aversion to animal food", to quote Ramana Maharshi again, whereby I promptly transitioned to a vegetarian diet.

It is with that in mind that my alarm bells start ringing when someone claiming mastery is happy promoting a carnivorous diet.

Pity that her motherly nature, as you put it, didn't extend to animals smaller than herself.

Sorry TruthSeekah::focus:

[Izheheruvim]

Akasha, you're doing a great disservice to yourself by keeping insulting Shri Mataji, and unfortunately i cannot ask the moderator to intervene since he seems to be also lacking in the Divine protocol. Whatever prior experiences you had you are demonstrating that your enlightenment is far from being complete. Anyways, i will try to address your concern, and if it doesn't satisfy you hopefully it would make sense to others.

For attention to be enlightened it needs to be very flexible. That's why all attachments and dharmas should be surrendered to the Higher Self so that Kundalini shakti could "knead" the attention. No strongly opinionated mind can be worked on in this regard, and here i would like to emphasize mind as distinct from conscience. Once the bigger picture is lost by intellectually exaggerating or downplaying certain its aspects, attention becomes "derailed" from the central path. So if one's attachment to vegetarianism is too strong, and it also actually applies to meat eaters, then attention that could be potentially enlightened becomes encapsulated in a very localized "circuit".

Alignment with the Higher Self, among other things, makes one understand Divine perspective much better. And Divine perspective is such, whether you like it or not, that God seems to be less caring about physical sufferings of living beings than some other priorities. This is not to say that He enjoys or approves of these sufferings. But somehow He forebears them for some higher purpose which accomplishment, among other things, should put an end to sufferings. And probably He would be much more concerned if things are not working out to this end despite all His forbearance. And if enlightenment is precisely that end, then probably not being enlightened is much worse evil than eating meat, especially if it helps to establish some sort of balance on the gross level. Shri Mataji would never talk about eating meat for any other purpose except for balancing out subtle system in order to ascend to the more subtle state of balance. And one can assume that a more subtle state of balance would make meat consumption irrelevant, both in terms of its toll on the physical body and compassion. But if someone tries to jump to this higher state of balance without a properly established lower base, it can only produce opinionated minds where attention gets stuck and cannot rise further, among other things.

[Jake]

i cannot ask the moderator to intervene since he seems to be also lacking in the Divine protocol.

That is not true, my friend. You can always ask! :) Let us not go down the road of unqualified remarks... Remember,,, we are all just a bunch of nincompoops, with simple, stupid experiences.

The more I see/read about Shri Mataji, the more feel there is great wisdom there. However, Being one who Lacks in the Divine protocol,,, I am not qualified to make that assumption.

Izheheruvim, I am still reading your works. I have had thousands of fully conscious OBEs. And many more sophisticated spiritual experiences. I can tell you about them, but I feel that my words are being judged. Is it more important to judge me than it is to judge yourself? I gave up on talking with Christians about it. Not because I don't feel that there is some wisdom there,, but because I cannot find a Christian that DOES NOT JUDGE me. I am weary of folks embedded in a religious mindset. I have found the most closed minds to be the ones who think they know everything. Shri Mataji is on solid ground. There is no need to moderate a comment about her. You say for attention to be enlightened, it needs to be very flexible. Do you find your observations/opinions about Kundalini to be 'flexible'? If I was to deliver a great truth to you,, would you deny it because it hasn't been written about by the 'masters'? Explain to me exactly what a 'master' is.

I do not want this conversation to digress.

I can tell you that advanced spiritual transcendental states can be induced and sustained, regardless of a vegetarian diet!!! Do you consider this an insult to Shri Mataji? Or do you just consider me lost?

Do you have out of body experiences and/or profound Astral Beingness with the entirety of consciousness? If I try and explain something outside of your sphere of experience, are you going to reject it outright?? What do you mean when you say that you 'don't feel a positive feeling from your Kundalini Shakti'?? What does a psychic impulse have to do with the divine? Psychic impulses are completely natural!!

Here is my current take on it. You cannot write it in a book. It is an experience. An experience of BEING. The mighty serpent cannot be understood. It will reach out to us in as many ways as there are people on the planet. It is our birthright, and needs to be unmasked from the language that has been used to try and describe it. There is not a single religion that will contain such truth. If one insists on simply judging, then one slips into the basic trap that religion becomes. There is no room in that mindset for me. Insisting that only certain 'masters' or 'priests' or 'bishops' or 'Yogis' can 'attain' something as perfectly natural as 'kundalini' is suspect.

My path steers clear of religious guidance because there is no such thing. If there were, then why all the confusion??? Everyone must follow their own path. Everyone must have the courage of their own convictions, whatever they may be. Watching folks argue their respective religions is a bit like watching people at a horse race. Everyone is fanatical about their horse coming in!!!

I could read a thousand books, watch another thousand vids/documentaries,,, they do NOT hold ground next to a single fully conscious Out of body experience. All of the mysteries that keep folks guessing can be experienced in a single moment. No death, No judgement, only pure amazing love and joy. I am sorry, I have never once felt that while reading a book about someone ELSES view on God.

Even as I say that,,, I am getting peace from reading your work. Peace and wisdom. I do not think that you are speaking confusing words as much as I am confused by them... I will get it. :)

I don't have a single negative feeling about any of you. My 'kundalini' does not talk to me like that!!! My INSTINCT tells me that we are ALL wrong...

Jake.

[edit] I know from personal experience that the biggest deception from any/all religion is taking these experiences and making them DIVINE!! This is a potential we all hold, and we need to redefine it. It is NOT divine. It will become important that we embrace it, rather than put it on a pedestal.

[Izheheruvim]

Jake, i'm flexible enough to instantaneously change my perspective once new evidence is presented. As an insult to Shri Mataji i see referring to her "shape" and weight that i cannot be flexible about. And i actually see it not as a lack of flexibility but rather trying to protect something that i deeply feel to be a holy subject. As for your lacking of the protocol, first of all i meant using inappropriate language such as "gal". I just checked your post, and it's still there. That's why i feel a bit hesitant to ask you to be moderating in a little bit more strict manner. But i still nurture a hope that i will be presented with a new evidence :)

Regarding your experiences, i must admit that i don't have even a single experience of OBE. So "horizontally" you seem to be much more advanced. But i'm much more interested in "vertical" movement. I become excited with other things, to put it differently. And if before i would really wanted to experience all of that, now i'm not really sure if i have such a desire. I'm fine as i am even when deprived of strong sensations, and would probably prefer an ecstatic state when sometimes i listen to a certain piece of music and my Kundalini shakti is filling me with blissful waves than an OBE.

I may seem to be too judgmental at times. But you should see where i am coming from and whether such and such judgement is coming from a limited mind or something more than that. I still need to grow much more, i have certain very deeply rooted issues and i'm not sure if i'll be able to get rid of them during this lifespan. But it is also obvious to me that i have found a very stable platform inside. I feel Kundalini shakti not just as energy or a pattern of sensations but also as emotion and intelligence, and she seems to become more and more embedded into my being. And i have all reasons to treat her as my spiritual mother. Actually this closeness to my Kundalini despite all limitations that still need to be worked on gives me a certain perspective on Shri Mataji, that of deep reverence. And i hope that it will be respected.

[Akasha]

.....you are demonstrating that your enlightenment is far from being complete.....

I have never nor will I ever claim to be enlightened. Not sure where you got that from. You are putting a lot of words into the fray, but as far as I can ascertain, they are all in the realm of beliefs....a place I try not to frequent.

Peace.

edit: Insulting gurus aside, did you read Sri Ramana's comments on diet? Did you notice that it was something he spoke emphatically about i.e "in a forceful way"? Since you evidently revere both Sri Ramana and Shri Mataji, doesn't their clear dietry conflict with one another breed some form of cognitive dissonance in your mind and if not why not?

[Jake]

Jake, i'm flexible enough to instantaneously change my perspective once new evidence is presented. As an insult to Shri Mataji i see referring to her "shape" and weight that i cannot be flexible about. And i actually see it not as a lack of flexibility but rather trying to protect something that i deeply feel to be a holy subject. As for your lacking of the protocol, first of all i meant using inappropriate language such as "gal". I just checked your post, and it's still there. That's why i feel a bit hesitant to ask you to be moderating in a little bit more strict manner. But i still nurture a hope that i will be presented with a new evidence :)

Regarding your experiences, i must admit that i don't have even a single experience of OBE. So "horizontally" you seem to be much more advanced. But i'm much more interested in "vertical" movement. I become excited with other things, to put it differently. And if before i would really wanted to experience all of that, now i'm not really sure if i have such a desire. I'm fine as i am even when deprived of strong sensations, and would probably prefer an ecstatic state when sometimes i listen to a certain piece of music and my Kundalini shakti is filling me with blissful waves than an OBE.

I may seem to be too judgmental at times. But you should see where i am coming from and whether such and such judgement is coming from a limited mind or something more than that. I still need to grow much more, i have certain very deeply rooted issues and i'm not sure if i'll be able to get rid of them during this lifespan. But it is also obvious to me that i have found a very stable platform inside. I feel Kundalini shakti not just as energy or a pattern of sensations but also as emotion and intelligence, and she seems to become more and more embedded into my being. And i have all reasons to treat her as my spiritual mother. Actually this closeness to my Kundalini despite all limitations that still need to be worked on gives me a certain perspective on Shri Mataji, that of deep reverence. And i hope that it will be respected.

Thank you, brother for your thoughts. :) Izheheruvim, I am VERY American. I assure you that if I use the word 'gal',, it is NOT meant as disrespect. Although, I admire your passion, and for your coming to the defense of Shri Mataji. (very American, actually,, lol.) :) My overall goal is to be part of a movement that will create the language that we need to begin to describe these things. I will be the first to admit that describing what happens to me in energetic terms does not begin to describe the overall condition. And to say "out of body experience" Does NOT come, even close, to describing what is happening. There may be terms imbedded in religious texts/writings, which is fine, but it also cannot not describe the overall event. I actually become quite skeptical when someone insists that they can explain the unexplainable. I have tried in more ways than I care to remember. From my perspective, ALL religions are off-shoots of an overall TRUTH, Masked in whatever language was used to attempt to describe, what cannot be described. And most Religious text can be traced back thousands of years, if not, more. I feel that that limits the way in which any Overall Truth can be explored. It is a thorn in my side, actually. I can talk to anyone about the truth of it, except to those who choose a deeply embedded religious mindset. I also believe that this 'overall truth' that I speak of (that cannot be described in mortal terms) is going to dawn on us all. Every single one of us!! It is inevitable,,, no? All paths lead to the same place, eventually!! :) I have deep and ongoing discussions with some very bright people about the implications of quantum realities. I find myself unable to describe what it is that I am seeing/experiencing in my mind. The next (most important) revelations, in the rabbit hole of quantum science is going to include many truths about consciousness. Which brings us full circle into the need to explore new language to describe these things. The only way for a person to breach this 'gap' is from personal experience. Finding yourself alive and well, bathing in an eternal mind, knowing that you will not be able to describe it later,,, then coming back and weeping, because the reality that you find yourself is NOT REAL,,, WILL CHANGE YOU. Regardless of what belief system one is entrenched in.

Cheers.
Jake.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Jake, i'm flexible enough to instantaneously change my perspective once new evidence is presented. As an insult to Shri Mataji i see referring to her "shape" and weight that i cannot be flexible about. And i actually see it not as a lack of flexibility but rather trying to protect something that i deeply feel to be a holy subject. As for your lacking of the protocol, first of all i meant using inappropriate language such as "gal". I just checked your post, and it's still there. That's why i feel a bit hesitant to ask you to be moderating in a little bit more strict manner. But i still nurture a hope that i will be presented with a new evidence :)

Regarding your experiences, i must admit that i don't have even a single experience of OBE. So "horizontally" you seem to be much more advanced. But i'm much more interested in "vertical" movement. I become excited with other things, to put it differently. And if before i would really wanted to experience all of that, now i'm not really sure if i have such a desire. I'm fine as i am even when deprived of strong sensations, and would probably prefer an ecstatic state when sometimes i listen to a certain piece of music and my Kundalini shakti is filling me with blissful waves than an OBE.

I may seem to be too judgmental at times. But you should see where i am coming from and whether such and such judgement is coming from a limited mind or something more than that. I still need to grow much more, i have certain very deeply rooted issues and i'm not sure if i'll be able to get rid of them during this lifespan. But it is also obvious to me that i have found a very stable platform inside. I feel Kundalini shakti not just as energy or a pattern of sensations but also as emotion and intelligence, and she seems to become more and more embedded into my being. And i have all reasons to treat her as my spiritual mother. Actually this closeness to my Kundalini despite all limitations that still need to be worked on gives me a certain perspective on Shri Mataji, that of deep reverence. And i hope that it will be respected.

in my dreams, she introduced herself as Tara, but was the one with the 12 pointed crown standing by the throne, all the same...

she's God Telco operator handling communications...

[greybeard]

Ramana always met the aspirant at the level they were at---he pointed to "Only Self", when they were capable of hearing that.
To some he recommended controlling breath, to others not.
He did not rule out any yoga or use of mantras to some, but to others he was clear that only find out who you are was relevant coupled with self enquiry.

He also accepted the value of Kundalini in some talks and in others that it was not necessary for it to rise.
He did not want one to identify with anything other than Self.

It could be said that every thought and opinion is untrue because it is based on the false premise that there is a me thinking them.
The sperate me being an illusion.

Being in the dream is being in the dream----find out the identity of the dreamer.

Dr David Hawkins spoke of the value of kundalini clearing chakras and changing the nervous system and left brain dependence to mainly right brain function. He also advocated letting go of all of the "experiences" of Kundalini even ecstasy he stated the ultimate is the profound peace in the "silence"
I might not have expressed that very well.

Anyway Kundalini is a profound blessing for the aspirant.

Chris

[Izheheruvim]

Akasha, i believe that i can no longer relate to the term "cognitive dissonance" as a personal experience, i'm much more open than it might seem. And when i get angry with your remarks i still feel peace within myself. I don't stick to any particular mentally structured worldview. If i truly recognize something it's always on a deeper level than just mind. And to answer your question, i don't see any contradictions between Shri Mataji and Shri Ramana Maharshi, whether you believe in that or not, and probably i won't be able to explain why.

Jake, pleasure to be addressed as 'brother' :) But if everything comes down to the essence of the difference you, brother, is talking about, then again we either need to agree or disagree on what enlightenment is, and what should be perceived as an enlightening change.

Chris, namaste :)

Rocky_Shorz, "Tara" is one of the names of the Great Goddess. Probably you know that.

Peace

[Izheheruvim]

I felt like sharing this video, hopefully at least some will enjoy it:

iNMvTqGfuR8

[Rocky_Shorz]

being able to study a Guru using ESP and not only ears opens you up to many possibilities...

many of the great Masters understand the magic woven into the chants but few understand they are opening themselves up for higher intelligence possession...

I can't explain all of it because many ETs are far beyond our comprehension to meanings and reasoning, but I have watched a guru controlled right in front of my eyes to study those around the Master... It is like a medium opening up to Spirits to allow communications when a Master bows to outside control. it happened over several months and I was able to recognize the same ET brought forward at each meeting.

now the reason I know it wasn't God or the Holy Spirit and just a being, is because I was shielded from this ET's view...

The Trinity is my shield...

[Izheheruvim]

being able to study a Guru using ESP and not only ears opens you up to many possibilities...

many of the great Masters understand the magic woven into the chants but few understand they are opening themselves up for higher intelligence possession...

I can't explain all of it because many ETs are far beyond our comprehension to meanings and reasoning, but I have watched a guru controlled right in front of my eyes to study those around the Master... It is like a medium opening up to Spirits to allow communications when a Master bows to outside control. it happened over several months and I was able to recognize the same ET brought forward at each meeting.

now the reason I know it wasn't God or the Holy Spirit and just a being, is because I was shielded from this ET's view...

The Trinity is my shield...

Well, it's one of those moments when sensations of heat or coolness come into play, something that was downplayed by some before. It's an ESP in a sense. But this ESP is shared uniformely by all those who was able to establish the experience of Kundalini properly and whose Vishuddhi chakra, or the energy center on the level of the throat, is not severely damaged. Shri Mataji would talk about false gurus, and an indicator of falsehood would be hot, heavy, sometimes painful vibrations on fingers and palms and (or) inside the body once you put your attention on such an individual.

[Izheheruvim]

Rocky Shorz, since you are protected by Trinity as you put it, why won't you name the guru you were referring to in your last post?

[Jake]

being able to study a Guru using ESP and not only ears opens you up to many possibilities...

many of the great Masters understand the magic woven into the chants but few understand they are opening themselves up for higher intelligence possession...

I can't explain all of it because many ETs are far beyond our comprehension to meanings and reasoning, but I have watched a guru controlled right in front of my eyes to study those around the Master... It is like a medium opening up to Spirits to allow communications when a Master bows to outside control. it happened over several months and I was able to recognize the same ET brought forward at each meeting.

now the reason I know it wasn't God or the Holy Spirit and just a being, is because I was shielded from this ET's view...

The Trinity is my shield...

Well, it's one of those moments when sensations of heat or coolness come into play, something that was downplayed by some before. It's an ESP in a sense. But this ESP is shared uniformely by all those who was able to establish the experience of Kundalini properly and whose Vishuddhi chakra, or the energy center on the level of the throat, is not severely damaged. Shri Mataji would talk about false gurus, and an indicator of falsehood would be hot, heavy, sometimes painful vibrations on fingers and palms and (or) inside the body once you put your attention on such an individual.

Iz,,, Last night I traveled free from my body. I was in a deep meditative trance, and had a thought... "Who is it that is watching my thoughts?" In an instant, An ecstatic energy ignited in my crown area. At the same time, my base center ignited, and in the time it would take to take a swift inward breath, by entire BEING was flowing with energy,,, inspired energy. I suppose it doesn't mean much to you, if you aren't hearing it from Shri Mataji!!! That is only an assumption, by the way. Hot, heavy and sometimes painful vibrations on the fingers and hands have a myriad of potential meanings for individuals!!!! I will agree on the model of ESP where there is a universal 'knowing' rather than a 'person to person' sort of nonsense. But I only agree because of experience. Not because my 'master' told me. You are inadvertently doing her a dis-service. IMHO. Does she talk about false Gurus? That is suspicious. I will not say another word about it... Religious folks only see truth when it fits into their pre-conceived beliefs. That is a problem.

I am curious about why it is necessary to 'put your attention on individuals' and judge them. Is this a fundamental undertaking? Is this something that frees the ego or re-enforces it?? The only valid judgement, at this level, would be a jugdement of SELF.

I feel bad for folks who have beliefs. They are only beliefs... To make it into a known, you must abandon your beliefs. You MUST know this. There is too much trauma caused by clinging to the rantings of the old world. Religion has failed. It is the personal experiences of folks like you and me and everyone else that is going to launch us into the next state of being,,, not a church or mosque or Ashram. People who are lost,,, find there way to religion. It doesn't make them any less lost!!! So what do people do if they are NOT lost.?? I guess we will be persecuted by EVERYONE,, even the ones who claim enlightenment!!!


Last night, I was out of my body. I visited a friend who was in a lot of pain. I prayed for him. I extended a pure energetic state to him, and for a moment, there was peace.

I engage work like this continually!!!! I still have no idea what Kundalini is!!! Not they way you describe it. Broken definitions and parables. You aren't going to learn about the true nature of the universe by clinging to a set definition!! Sorry, it does NOT work like that.

Consider the following parable...


There are some river creatures who cling to the rocks in the river. They know nothing other than clinging to the rocks. One day one of the river creatures exclaims aloud, ‘I’m tired of clinging. If I keep clinging to these rocks the rest of my days, I’ll die of boredom’.

The other river creatures say to this one, ‘If you let go, the river will carry you away. You’ll be smashed into the rocks and die for sure.’ To which the river creature responds, ‘There must be something more to this life than clinging. If I have to take my chances and be smashed into the rocks, so be it.’ And with that he let go of the rock where he had been clinging his entire life…..
The river creature does let go and at first is smashed about and thrown against the rocks. But over time he learns to float. He loves floating effortlessly, letting the current take him where it will. One day he comes to another group of river creatures further down stream. They see him float by effortlessly and exclaim, ‘Look a river creature just like us. Yet he does not cling.’ and ‘He has no fear of the rocks or the current. How does he do it? ‘ The river creature replies as he floats peacefully, ‘The river delights to lift us free if only we dare let go.’

Dare to let go,,
Jake.

[greybeard]

Amen Jake--all belief systems, concepts and at some point all teachers must be released.
The teacher and the taught are the same.
The God within you is the same as the God within me.
Namaste---"I greet the God within you."

Chris

[greybeard]

My ego says and at least I know I have one.
Twenty years ago I could have entered into great debate about Kundalini---now I know very little about anything.
Things just run their course and that's as intended.
When Shakti/the cosmic energy awakes within you, as one teacher said "You are in the taxi being driven home by Shakti"
Its a question of trust---the energy is super intelligent it knows what it is doing.
Me would only get in the way.

Chris

[Jake]

My ego says and at least I know I have one.
Twenty years ago I could have entered into great debate about Kundalini---now I know very little about anything.
Things just run their course and that's as intended.
When Shakti/the cosmic energy awakes within you, as one teacher said "You are in the taxi being driven home by Shakti"
Its a question of trust---the energy is super intelligent it knows what it is doing.
Me would only get in the way.

Chris

Ha! I love it!! :) ME definitely gets in the way. Me is quite stubborn. Thank you, Chris.

Jake.

[Izheheruvim]

Jake, you made a very valid point that only a judgment coming from the Self or the innermost pure being (this is my add-on) should be trusted. Therefore, the question is: how to determine that it's coming from there? I believe it's the main stumbling block for people having good intentions but who eventually start clashing because of different ideas of this Self or the ways it communicates its vision.

Common sense can vary, what you call as "instincts" can vary, ESP can vary too. If you are a good person but have some strong negativity sitting in your subtle system it can resist to Divinity and send you negative emotions interfering with your instincts. If you seem to be fine both in terms of your goodness and state of your subtle system, or purity of your soul if i use religious language, but is strongly conditioned with a particular set of beliefs, it would interfere with your common sense. If you have neither of major flaws and is open enough, only in this case your judgement can be more or less accurate within the limits of your perception. And ESP, whichever mode one is tapped to, is heavily dependent on previous conditions.

Suppose, what you felt in your OBE has to do with Divinity. What are the criteria you are using? What is your idea of Divinity? What is your idea of negativity? How does it affect your waking state on all levels of your being: physical, emotional, mental? What are precisely the benefits you'd like to share with others as a result of all your experiences? How do these benefits match with other cases of enlightenment or at least benevolently expanded awareness? And again everything comes to this point: what is your idea of enlightenment and based on what?

You may say that i'm too precautious and asking too many questions. But i mentioned earlier that i adhere to a dualistic view, and it should be very simple to understand: if we agree that there are negative people living on this earth, then same thing could be applied to the spiritual dimension. And probably it's precisely this spiritual dimension that makes people negative to begin with.

Shri Mataji was talking about false gurus and was doing it quite openly. So it's too late to do "disservice" to her as she already did it herself. You felt suspicious about someone trying to warn others about potential dangers. In other words, you felt judgmental, and was sure that your judgment was coming from Self, about someone who was judgmental while the judgement wasn't actually coming from Self? It would be very lovely if dangers didn't exist, and all spiritual masters would provide true guidance to aspirants. But what if it's actually not the case? What if people can be damaged by self-proclaimed gurus and teachers? And if someone warns about it and provides means of discretion, "vibratory awareness" being among them that should be tested rather them trusted blindly, maybe there's some genuineness about it. Probably you don't understand how this coolness, warmth, tingling, etc., works when you, brother, comparing it to what other people experience. Coolness can be experienced from light sensations to literally blowing wind and something enveloping your entire being. I didn't have an experience of being totally enveloped with this coolness but i trust experiences of some other Sahaja yogis, actually quite good people and yogis. But i did experience it as a very strong flow. Heat can be something really burning that would definitely cause a certain amount of discomfort. Same thing about tingling. And these sensations can alternate really fast depending on where you put your attention, and different hands and fingers can have different patterns of sensations too. I doubt it to be something that most of the people experience on a regular basis, so it's a pretty unique ESP one may say.

Regarding beliefs and their utility. Some beliefs can be quite useless indeed, even detrimental. But it doesn't apply to all cases. Some conditionings that people have can be benevolent for their spiritual progress. I personally see it as a fuel section in a rocket that propels it high enough, and at a certain height it can be abandoned. After all, all known great spiritual masters and mystics have had some religious background to begin with. But i do agree that religions and spiritual practices fail all too often for many of their followers, and Sahaja Yoga is not really some exception from this unfortunate rule.

In the end, i'd like to share some ideas of the criteria to determine the genuineness of his or her spiritual path. It really comes down to very simple but very profound things: how innocent, joyful, peaceful, compassionate and knowledgeable one becomes as a result of all what he or she is doing. I believe it's very hard to disagree with that. I would like to emphasize innocence, with chastity being a part of it. For example, when prophet Muhammad was in doubts about his spiritual experiences and visions of the angel who would come and talk to him, his wife Hadidja suggested an experiment: next time they lie in bed and Muhammad sahib sees the angel, Hadidja would open the blanket and expose her nudity to him. And if he disappears, surely enough he must be a Divine messenger since feeling of shame coming from chastity could only come from someone Divine. And the angel disappeared indeed when she did that. So it was the case of a very deep intuitive understanding of Divine principles that, in my opinion, was coming from Self.

[Jake]

Jake, you made a very valid point that only a judgment coming from the Self or the innermost pure being (this is my add-on) should be trusted. Therefore, the question is: how to determine that it's coming from there? I believe it's the main stumbling block for people having good intentions but who eventually start clashing because of different ideas of this Self or the ways it communicates its vision.


Indeed! There is a difference between making a judgement and 'being judgemental. If there is a snake, I will make a judgement about NOT touching it. That is not the same as being Judgemental of the snake. The snake, is what it is!! It is human flaw that puts negativity into the act of judging. Negativity being that in which is designed to deceive or lie. The worst deceit or lie will be the one where we attempt to lie to ourselves. THAT is when our instinct stops talking to us. Most all of negativity comes from what one interprets as deception or lies. This definition does not cover all bases. I am more speaking of a personal/emotional/human perspective. (ie,,, hunger will be negatively received by those who don't have any food.) Maybe not the best example.


Common sense can vary, what you call as "instincts" can vary, ESP can vary too. If you are a good person but have some strong negativity sitting in your subtle system it can resist to Divinity and send you negative emotions interfering with your instincts. If you seem to be fine both in terms of your goodness and state of your subtle system, or purity of your soul if i use religious language, but is strongly conditioned with a particular set of beliefs, it would interfere with your common sense. If you have neither of major flaws and is open enough, only in this case your judgement can be more or less accurate within the limits of your perception. And ESP, whichever mode one is tapped to, is heavily dependent on previous conditions.


Very well said, my friend. I cannot disagree. I will point out that my awareness/observation and acceptance of what happens to me spontaneously came WITHOUT even a basic understanding of 'goodness and/or state of my subtle systems.' This is not about attainment. It is about experience. I have shed more layers than I can remember. And therefore have to agree with your statement about Instinct being heavily dependent on previous 'knowns'. But I cannot agree that special instinct is granted to those who have 'achieved'.. My friend, I am a common fool!!! Yet I walk with full knowledge of many of the mysteries of the universe, based on nothing more than being able to embrace my experiences. Definitely NOT based on my understanding of it. Not based on attainment. Not based on how old/holy my soul is...


Suppose, what you felt in your OBE has to do with Divinity. What are the criteria you are using? What is your idea of Divinity? What is your idea of negativity? How does it affect your waking state on all levels of your being: physical, emotional, mental? What are precisely the benefits you'd like to share with others as a result of all your experiences? How do these benefits match with other cases of enlightenment or at least benevolently expanded awareness? And again everything comes to this point: what is your idea of enlightenment and based on what?


I do not suppose any such thing. I believe Divinity to be a lie!! The biggest barrier between self and true self is the BELIEF that any condition of the soul, or any condition of consciousness is on some divine pedestal, that only the most holy or gifted can ATTAIN. That is an outright lie! Enlightenment, to me, is simply observing the experience of your own expanding awareness. All things cycle, therefore it is not a matter of 'levels',,, up or down. It is expanding your point of view to a point where ones soul can accept the comfort of being one with the universe. Yet even then,, who is thinking the thoughts that are observing an expanding awareness?? It can only be based on personal experience, and the ability to embrace/remember our experiences. example: At first I see red. expanding out, I see patterns of red rectangles, expanding out, I see that it is a brick wall, expanding out I see that it is a building, expanding out I see that it is a city block, expanding out I see that it is a city, expanding out I see that it is a state, country then, planet, then solar system,,, etc... That is expanded awareness,,, enlightenment is the journey. :) If any of it is divine, then it is ALL divine. There is no middle man between a person and God/universe/all that is...


You may say that i'm too precautious and asking too many questions. But i mentioned earlier that i adhere to a dualistic view, and it should be very simple to understand: if we agree that there are negative people living on this earth, then same thing could be applied to the spiritual dimension. And probably it's precisely this spiritual dimension that makes people negative to begin with.


I would not say any such thing. If you don't ask questions then how do you expect to get answers. We will do better to learn from ourselves and each other, in dialogue than to learn from many of the old texts, no? I am aware of the same duality.


Probably you don't understand how this coolness, warmth, tingling, etc., works when you, brother, comparing it to what other people experience. Coolness can be experienced from light sensations to literally blowing wind and something enveloping your entire being. I didn't have an experience of being totally enveloped with this coolness but i trust experiences of some other Sahaja yogis, actually quite good people and yogis. But i did experience it as a very strong flow. Heat can be something really burning that would definitely cause a certain amount of discomfort. Same thing about tingling. And these sensations can alternate really fast depending on where you put your attention, and different hands and fingers can have different patterns of sensations too. I doubt it to be something that most of the people experience on a regular basis, so it's a pretty unique ESP one may say.


Very insightful, thank you. You cannot test me on my understanding of the dynamics of energetic, subtle body reactions, and how it relates to personal spirituality. You can try. There is nothing vague about my experiences, they are direct. Here is a hint: The reason why I am suspicious when folks insist that a 'coolness' or a 'warmth' or a 'hot' or a 'cold' is relevant is because the sensations of 'hot/cold/warm/cool' are ALL RELATIVE TO THE OBSERVER. You cannot tell me that ones experience of being bathed in 'coolness' is NOT another experience of being 'burned in the heat'.. It is all relevant to the observer. All of these subtle body energetic states ARE. And here we are,, full circle into the concept of personal experience and personal empowerment, vs reading it in a book... There is a powerful vibrational state that is many times the precursor experience to the OBE. This vibrational state has been described by a VAST number of people in almost every religion. (I have done my homework on this one..:)) If you take a hundred people, you will get a hundred different descriptions. Part of expanded awareness has to do with the balancing or 'tuning' our experience of this vibrational state. On the other hand,,, it is also true that about 2 thirds of all 'astral projectors' will not experience the vibrational state. I promise you IT IS ALL RELATIVE TO THE OBSERVER. :)



In the end, i'd like to share some ideas of the criteria to determine the genuineness of his or her spiritual path. It really comes down to very simple but very profound things: how innocent, joyful, peaceful, compassionate and knowledgeable one becomes as a result of all what he or she is doing. I believe it's very hard to disagree with that. I would like to emphasize innocence, with chastity being a part of it. For example, when prophet Muhammad was in doubts about his spiritual experiences and visions of the angel who would come and talk to him, his wife Hadidja suggested an experiment: next time they lie in bed and Muhammad sahib sees the angel, Hadidja would open the blanket and expose her nudity to him. And if he disappears, surely enough he must be a Divine messenger since feeling of shame coming from chastity could only come from someone Divine. And the angel disappeared indeed when she did that. So it was the case of a very deep intuitive understanding of Divine principles that, in my opinion, was coming from Self.

Love and peace to you, brother. Of course it comes from self. And it is not just the Prophets any more!!!!

Jake.

[Izheheruvim]

Indeed! There is a difference between making a judgement and 'being judgemental. If there is a snake, I will make a judgement about NOT touching it. That is not the same as being Judgemental of the snake. The snake, is what it is!! It is human flaw that puts negativity into the act of judging. Negativity being that in which is designed to deceive or lie. The worst deceit or lie will be the one where we attempt to lie to ourselves. THAT is when our instinct stops talking to us. Most all of negativity comes from what one interprets as deception or lies. This definition does not cover all bases. I am more speaking of a personal/emotional/human perspective. (ie,,, hunger will be negatively received by those who don't have any food.) Maybe not the best example.

Snake cannot transcend the limits of being what it is whereas humans have more flexibility in this respect. And certain things that humans do one can't help judging negatively or positively, not in some abstract way like "such and such person should be avoided" but rather imparting quite definitive moral characteristics to him or her. And it's not necessarily about trying to deceive oneself and project one's negativity on others. Most people, i believe, have some innate discretion of what good and evil are, especially when it comes to rather fundamental things. If someone tries to be nonjudgmental and sees others as being judgmental in the way i described, then it's a catch 22 - he or she also becomes judgmental based on his or her core belief of being nonjudgmental. But i guess we agree on the difference between valid and invalid judgment :)


But I cannot agree that special instinct is granted to those who have 'achieved'..

If you dedicate your attention, love and time to something, wouldn't you expect some achievements that would be less accessible to others, all things being equal? I believe it's just a common sense. And of course the point is not to become any different from others but to achieve what you want.


I do not suppose any such thing. I believe Divinity to be a lie!! The biggest barrier between self and true self is the BELIEF that any condition of the soul, or any condition of consciousness is on some divine pedestal, that only the most holy or gifted can ATTAIN. That is an outright lie!

What is your belief based upon? Probably this belief stands between your self and true self ;)


You cannot tell me that ones experience of being bathed in 'coolness' is NOT another experience of being 'burned in the heat'.. It is all relevant to the observer.

Yes, i made clear the condition - Kundalini shakti should be properly established (meaning that one should tap into the central energy channel rather nicely) and Vishuddhi chakra should be clean enough to be able to perceive these sensations accurately. Otherwise it will be distorted by the observer's inner state, and it does happen indeed.


Love and peace to you, brother. Of course it comes from self. And it is not just the Prophets any more!!!!

Brother, love and peace to you too :)

[Jake]

If you dedicate your attention, love and time to something, wouldn't you expect some achievements that would be less accessible to others, all things being equal? I believe it's just a common sense. And of course the point is not to become any different from others but to achieve what you want.


Oh yes, of course. I am a musician. I have dedicated almost 30 years to passionately learning about myself through music. I do recognize that great works tend to help folks achieve. But I have had the amazing pleasure of playing with at least a couple of 'naturals'. They did not have to put in the long hours/struggles/sacrifices etc... they could 'just play'... It is amazing!!! They no more had an understanding of musical theory than an ant!!! But they sure could play!!


What is your belief based upon? (regarding Divinity) Probably this belief stands between your self and true self


I don't base my condition on beliefs. The only thing that stands between me and true self is a decision. Yes, it is a choice.

To assume divinity is to assume that there is separation from myself and universal oneness. Of course any separation from source/self is an illusion,,, a choice. :) I do not struggle with it so much. I used to. Divinity is also RELATIVE TO THE OBSERVER.. What is considered divine to one, will surely be considered normal to the 'divine'. There are no fixed points, no straight lines, only vast potentials animated by consciousness. Who are you to say that the snake is not on a journey to find its true self?? Ha. A demonstration of being judgemental of an entire species...

I have become lucid in THIS dream... the one we call reality!! I love the mystery. I love the journey. I lament that sooooooooo many people fall blindly into a religion without attempting to embrace the true nature of their own souls... I dare say that if we had never put spirituality on a divine pedestal,, perhaps we wouldn't have the problem with blind faith, that we do now. Divinity assumes a level of unattainability,,, I do NOT buy into it. It is ALL divine,, or none of it. :)

Part of what frustrates me is that a guy like me cannot talk about any of this really,,, Religion has claimed it all.... spirit/soul/divinity/sacred/holy/consciousness,,,, If I talk pragmatically to folks about my experiences,,, one way or the other,,,, religious folks get quite irritated,,, 'you're not jesus',, 'you're not a god',, 'your not a prophet',,, ie,,, it is RELIGION that has put all of this up on a pedestal... Not me... I am saying that it belongs equally to each of us... Christ is not a person, but a condition of the soul. Jesus was a person. So is Izheheruvim, so is Jake, so was Muhammad!! And each of us carry the same potential. No separation. No divinity. Only IS....

Jake.

[Izheheruvim]

Oh yes, of course. I am a musician. I have dedicated almost 30 years to passionately learning about myself through music. I do recognize that great works tend to help folks achieve. But I have had the amazing pleasure of playing with at least a couple of 'naturals'. They did not have to put in the long hours/struggles/sacrifices etc... they could 'just play'... It is amazing!!! They no more had an understanding of musical theory than an ant!!! But they sure could play!!

Jake, if you remember i wrote "all things being equal". It means that people with different natural inclinations need less or more time to master the same field. And i'm talking about the majority of people who normally require some time and perseverance in order to achieve something.


To assume divinity is to assume that there is separation from myself and universal oneness.

Well, as long as this oneness is not your (i don't mean you personally) common experience, and probably neither the experience of others with a few exceptions here and there, probably it's not just an assumption but rather a limited state of awareness. And one precisely can assume about Divinity based on the experiences of those exceptions. Otherwise it wouldn't really occur to someone that such things exist.


Divinity is also RELATIVE TO THE OBSERVER.. What is considered divine to one, will surely be considered normal to the 'divine'. There are no fixed points, no straight lines, only vast potentials animated by consciousness.

If we assume that God exists regardless of what we think of Him it implies objective reality. And this objective reality is quite a fixed point despite infinite potentialities based on it, i don't see any contradictions here. And to see what this reality holds dear or rejects one needs to become one with it. Since we have different views of how to become one with it, surely enough we have different opinions on the matter.

As for snakes, i bring my apologies to the entire species. Probably i should say they are less flexible than human beings in terms of their moral choices. But it can be compensated with flexibility of their bodies ))


I dare say that if we had never put spirituality on a divine pedestal,, perhaps we wouldn't have the problem with blind faith, that we do now. Divinity assumes a level of unattainability,,, I do NOT buy into it. It is ALL divine,, or none of it.

As long as you assume that you will never become God in His all entirety, that a creation will never be equal to the Creator, i believe you shouldn't have any problems with the idea of hierarchy. But we can tap into our potential of being one with God as much as possible indeed. It's all about the means that bring us to this end.



Part of what frustrates me is that a guy like me cannot talk about any of this really,,, Religion has claimed it all.... spirit/soul/divinity/sacred/holy/consciousness,,,, If I talk pragmatically to folks about my experiences,,, one way or the other,,,, religious folks get quite irritated,,, 'you're not jesus',, 'you're not a god',, 'your not a prophet',,, ie,,, it is RELIGION that has put all of this up on a pedestal... Not me... I am saying that it belongs equally to each of us... Christ is not a person, but a condition of the soul. Jesus was a person. So is Izheheruvim, so is Jake, so was Muhammad!! And each of us carry the same potential. No separation. No divinity. Only IS....

Religion doesn't only describe spiritual reality but also gives a moral evaluation of it based on a spiritual revelation of such and such prophet. You admitted that you have no understanding of your experiences, that you are just "a common fool". It's not enough to provide guidance to someone, to be honest, and religion is essentially about moral guidance. Your frustration is a reaction towards general failure of religions to bring about the heaven on Earth. I'm quite unimpressed with religions the way they are and their historical baggage either. But you can't deny that they might hold some truth regardless of how it was misused. Sheer rejection and failure to see what religions have in common in terms of understanding of Divine principles would be also a deviation from the Central Path, in my opinion.

Anyways, i guess we came to the point when all arguments are exhausted, and people say to each other: "You follow your path, and i will follow mine". If we meet at the same destination together with snakes and all other creatures i will be glad, and we will laugh at this our discussion if we still remember it :) Good luck to you, brother!

[Jake]

Amen Jake--all belief systems, concepts and at some point all teachers must be released.
The teacher and the taught are the same.
The God within you is the same as the God within me.
Namaste---"I greet the God within you."

Chris

And I greet the god within you. I humbly greet the god in You, Izheheruvim. BTW,,, I cannot put into words how much I am enjoying this discussion. You came along at a time when I needed to hear these words, Iz,, I do not believe in coincidence.

Cheers.
Jake.

[learninglight]

Just want to jump in and say i'm enjoying this thread, thank you :)

sharon

[Rocky_Shorz]

Maya

I was doing a home care for Rosie who was a Guru too, just not as recognized...

I caught a glimpse of a shapeshifter and went deeper to know more...

she incubated an ET for 3 days, and then woke thinking she had been at a party.

the ETs chose those who are gifted to mate with...

very long story, but this isn't the thread

[Orph]

I would like to emphasize innocence, with chastity being a part of it. For example, when prophet Muhammad was in doubts about his spiritual experiences and visions of the angel who would come and talk to him, his wife Hadidja suggested an experiment: next time they lie in bed and Muhammad sahib sees the angel, Hadidja would open the blanket and expose her nudity to him. And if he disappears, surely enough he must be a Divine messenger since feeling of shame coming from chastity could only come from someone Divine. And the angel disappeared indeed when she did that. So it was the case of a very deep intuitive understanding of Divine principles that, in my opinion, was coming from Self.But you or I can't really know why the angel went way. It may not have been ashamed. Maybe she had some kind of attitude like, "so, angel, ... what do you think of this? boo-ya" ..... and maybe it was her negative energy that sent the angel away. Maybe she was ugly. Like I say, we can't know for sure.

[Akasha]

Hi Izheheruvim.

Some brief responses to some of your points if I may.


Common sense can vary

I think that common sense on the whole, by definition, does not vary because it is common to all who are sensible. It is what has been collectively recognized as sensible. It would only vary if some pockets of society where not as sensible as others and then they would not be practicing common sense but relative foolishness.


i adhere to a dualistic view

I don't. I'll try and explain why. Folk often speak of light and darkness or love and fear but darkness is not the opposite of light. It doesn't consist of negatively charged photons. It is simply a lack of light. In a similar way, love does not have an opposite. Concepts such as fear or hate are simply symptoms of lack of love.


Regarding beliefs and their utility. Some beliefs can be quite useless indeed, even detrimental. But it doesn't apply to all cases. Some conditionings that people have can be benevolent for their spiritual progress.

Beliefs are only benevolent if they are actually true. Once recognized as such, that belief is redefined as truth and gnosis ensues.


In the end, i'd like to share some ideas of the criteria to determine the genuineness of his or her spiritual path. It really comes down to very simple but very profound things: how innocent, joyful, peaceful, compassionate and knowledgeable one becomes as a result of all what he or she is doing. I believe it's very hard to disagree with that. I would like to emphasize innocence, with chastity being a part of it.

I agree that innocence, joy, peace, compassion and knowledge are all outcomes of being on the path. The taking of sentient life for food always opposes those states.

[Izheheruvim]

I guess we will come to some shared understanding where i wished to meet Jake, or where he wished to see me :) Everyone is welcome to agree or disagree and interpret my words in his or her own way. This is my understanding based on my knowledge and awareness at this point of time. Will see what happens :)

[greybeard]

The Mantra Om Nama-shivia is one recommended for Kundalini.
I do it every day with 108 beads.
Its important to do it with love and without expectation.
With it you are surrendering to the Love of God---it is devotional.
I was recommended to do 21 repetitions three times daily.

Chris

[1 flew over]

Dear dear People

I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread in its entirety. Some parts I agree with, some parts I do not understand. I will let what I have read simmer and would like to join into this discussion if it still exists when things have gelled a bit. It was a delight to see a willingness to express your viewpoints openly and communicate freely that is too seldom seen.

It seems as though I am getting ready to jump into the deep end of the swimming pool, where I know that I cannot touch.

Be Well
1 Flew Over

[Izheheruvim]

As far as i know mantras work most effectively once Kundalini shakti has been awakened, not before. A mantra to Shri Shiva would specially resonate with Anahat chakra or the center of heart. But for Anahat chakra to be properly established lower chakras, especially Mooladhara chakra, have to be in good shape. It's like building higher stories upon a firm foundation. Or, one can say that prior to worshiping Shri Shiva, or the fatherly aspect of God, one should first pay homage to Son, if not by taking mantra then by respecting the quality of innocence. And Hindu equivalent of Son would be Shri Ganesh who is associated with Mooladhara chakra.

Coming back to "vibratory awareness", one sensitive enough should able to feel how different mantras resonate with particular energy centers and channels. I am personally not so sensitive as yet but normally i have some emotional responses when taking a mantra and can feel a general increase in the flow of vibrations. Besides, i had a chance to interact with yogis whose sensitivity is quite advanced. So when they take Ganesh mantra, for example, they would feel some response in Mooladhara, etc.

Actually i had an interesting experience even with a psychic, a friend of my parents. She came over, and me and her were watching a concert. One of the performers was dancing Shri Ganesh dance, and she felt something was happening in the area of her Mooladhara, that is perineum, a sort of opening of the chakra. Probably it's needles to say that she didn't know who this dance was dedicated to and what was the expected response in the subtle system.

:)

[Mitm]

My Kundalini Experiences ...
1st 2 were at a spiritual retreat,while doing "dyads", energy started in base chakra and worked its way up, it feels like bubbles going up the middle of the body, I didnt feel it in the back, more in the front... As the energy rises up each chakra, the chakra is cleansed, and the effects are manifested...as it went to the solar plexus, I felt power, as it went to the heart, I felt immense Unconditional Pure Love (UPL), to the throat, and I was crying out "I AM", "I AM", I am God, I am all there is... to the 3rd eye, and I start to see that its all ME, I am everything that is, and so everyone/thing else... through the Crown Chakra, and its bliss, ecstacy, heaven, undescribable... (effect lasted for 1 -2 hours, before ego started to slowly creep back).
3rd one - was at work, infront of all my work mates, it was like i was having an epileptic fit, until I screamed out "I surrender" before the energy finally went up to my crown, and then out...
4th one - the same day at home after being sent home from work (after feeling sick again, I note that before the experience that day, I let a lot of SH** go, literally, it had to come out one way or the other, either through vommiting or diareah
5th one - didnt go all the way, I was able to control it and keep it under control, just came spontaneously while in bed one night
6th one - While visiting some family friends, and my Son was praying with us (muslim) it hit again... this time I had to high tail it out of there and into the car, where the process went pretty quickly... though again after, I was telling everyone how much i loved them, my family didnt know what was happening, and my sister in law even slapped me, but I was still telling her I loved her..
7th one - Interestingly was just this year during a solar flare... again I was at work, but I was able to get to a quiet spot and calm it down....

I forgot one was on the train, crying and laughing at the same time, before telling me the person opposite me, we are all God...

[Izheheruvim]

Namaste

I guess now you won't be surprised if i say that i didn't feel the above experience as an awakening of Kundalini shakti )) Let's put it differently: what i feel as Kundalini within my limitations didn't show me this way. When i was reading it i was keeping attention in Sahasrara and my hands were stretched out to sense vibrations. I felt heaviness both in my Agiya and Sahasrara. Vibrations-wise i was feeling slight tinglings and warmth on my fingers (ideally it should be coolness). Emotionally i didn't feel particularly inspired. Mentally i was completely open and was ready to acknowledge everything that comes my way. Actually i'm always eager to acknowledge genuineness of others' experiences, i hope this won't be questioned. My reference point, as usual, was Shri Ramana Maharshi, and taking his name gave me a wave of inspiration, relaxed Agiya and Kundalini went to Sahasrara much easier, as usual.

Unfortunately, with the perception i have at the moment i won't be able to say more what exactly had happened to Mitm and what he felt as an awakening of Kundalini. But i can point out a few things that we feel differently. In case of Mitm the flow was rising more in the front and started from Mooladhara whereas in mine it's always about the back and sacrum bone as the starting point. So i would assume that in his case more "outward" energy meridians were activated. Also, i can't personally relate to bubbling sensation unless bubbles are very tiny. Also, nothing like epileptic fit would precede rising of my Kundalini or no strange things i would do as a result of her rising. I do feel love that is able to embrace all but it's not a sentimental love, and normally it won't bring tears to my eyes unless i experience really touching moments or come across real suffering. But what i feel is love and compassion, no doubt about it. Here my "cross-comparison" ends :) Peace

[Izheheruvim]

Just in case, one should always keep in mind those two my posts:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62016-The-Kundalini-Is-The-Holy-Spirit--What-Your-Church-Doesn-t-Want-You-To-Know&p=735232&viewfull=1#post735232

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62016-The-Kundalini-Is-The-Holy-Spirit--What-Your-Church-Doesn-t-Want-You-To-Know&p=737048&viewfull=1#post737048

I'm always open to accept a point that would more valid, truthful and all-encompassing. It's all about evidence presented. Love and peace

[Akasha]

My Kundalini Experiences ...
energy started in base chakra and worked its way up, it feels like bubbles going up the middle of the body...

Thanks for sharing that, Mitm. So much of your experiences tallied with mine. In particular, your "bubbles" comment was like a trigger, a time machine, instantaneously transporting me back over a decade to the time and place where the same sensation made it's way through me.

Slava, I'm a little puzzled as to how you can verify my experience here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62016-The-Kundalini-Is-The-Holy-Spirit--What-Your-Church-Doesn-t-Want-You-To-Know&p=728410&viewfull=1#post728410) and yet nullify someone else's who I identified with 100%.
Mitm's description fits mine to a tee. I also concurred with much of what Jake was sharing and, again it didn't seem to pass your hot/cold hand kundalini authenticity test. Are you sure you can rely on it's accuracy? It seems a bit hit and miss to me.

Sorry to be on your case all the time btw ;)

[1 flew over]

OK, into the pool;

A quick history, been a seeker all my life. I have always thought that I was a bit different, probably like most here on PA. I have done more workshops and classes than anyone else I know. I am what is known as always been Clear, some call it a Natural Clear in Scientology terms. I am an OT 7 but left in early 80s when everything went crazy. I am now involved with Ron’s Org and I do a lot of other personal stuff consistently. I do not use any drugs and haven’t for 35 years other than minor amounts of alcohol. I never did use anything other than grass, cocaine(never much of those but yes I did inhale ;-)) and psilocybin once. I always knew that I was a bit too close to the edge anyway.

I have my own read on what I am going to describe but I would appreciate others viewpoints. I love other viewpoints, I may not accept them but I do appreciate them.

I was in a Cof$ process running what are called Service Facsimiles where you look at times when you have put on a beingness to solve a problem and sort of hung on to it unknowingly. I do not remember any real body manifestations other than my entire awareness system quickly changed. I could see what I will call the universal time line. It was all viewpoints, for all beings, for all time. I instantly knew who or what everyone was for all time. This included other life forms, thought forms without bodies, other universes for all time. Needless to say it was a bit overwhelming. My auditor in great style mentioned “ I think we will end off here”. A few Havingness processes (grounding) were run but I was quite blown out. I had real trouble figuring out who, or where, or even when I was because I was all these things at once. I was taken to where I was staying and wandered around in my place for what must have been some days. I was checked in on. I could handle body needs but did not want to leave my cave. I wish that I had taken notes but they probably would not have made any sense anyway. Within a week or so I was mostly back to normal except for being fairly spacey. I was on what is called a floating TA and it was probably 6 weeks before I could go back in session.

A different occurrence was when I was in China studying Chi Lil Chi Gung with my teacher and one of the Masters who used to work in at the Huaxia Zhineng Qigong Clinic/Hospital in China. We had been doing Chi Gung 7-8 hours per day for probably 10 days when the Master said he learned had a practice in Tibet to release spiritual energy up through the core. I will not go into the practice but after we had been practicing for a couple of hours or so about half of us would start to “pop”. It felt like a spiraling energy moving up from my base chakra, as it reached my stomach I felt a bit queasy but not bad. As It moved up, my body was slowly rotating slightly with the energy spin. As it reached my throat I felt like it was closing off and I was having a little trouble breathing (light apprehension). When the energy finally moved out through the crown I knew that I had gone with it and had blown exterior. The assistants helped to comfort us to keep us calm. In a moment or two they would help us stand and would walk us around, we were all in peals of laughter. At first the entire universe showed itself as sparkles of light, trees, walls, people, books were just glistening energy. I was nervous to step because knew that there was no substance to anything and I was going to fall through the floor or ground. I don’t know where I would have fallen through to but it didn’t happen anyway. I went outside and gazed up at the stars and was completely one with it all. After an hour of so I was back to fairly normal. Any time I need some extra energy I can spool-er-up and recharge my system.

One more time—No drugs for 35 years and I have done a bunch of purification/detox programs.

I have two more different experiences but I will wait on those, they are nothing about having dim sung with Elvis in another dimension or battling terminators.

OK, Does anyone have any input of these areas? Other than give up caffeine and sugar.

Be Well
1 Flew Over

[soleil]

jake, this is in my effort to give you some information in perhaps a way it can help you. although i am not sure if you have come across this book, i recommend it as it talks of kundalini and chakras in terms of the emotions and feelings that surge through you. you can determine what chakras need opening and which ones are far too open. i found great information in this book. :) http://www.kundalini-and-chakra.com/support-files/kundalini-and-the-chakras-genevieve-lewis-paulson.pdf

second, many mentions of shri mataji, but not the name of the kundalini method (self realization) i am familiar with. so let me share that here. most apologies IF it was mentioned, as i was not able to watch videos while reading this thread. the method im familiar with and recently did with voice help from my fiance, was the sahaja yoga method. again, its not religous, and is the easiest method to raise kundalini. (before ray says it again, this is at your own risk guys...ps, HI RAY!)


"It is everyone's right to achieve this state of ones evolution and everything necessary is already inbuilt. But as I respect your freedom, you have to have the desire to achieve this state, it cannot be forced upon you!"

-- Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi


Sit with your back straight but comfortably. Taking off your shoes might also help since the Mother Earth sucks all negativity through our feet.
Place both your hands with palms upwards on your lap, look at Shri Mataji's picture and relax.

Say in your heart, with all your pure desire, "Mother, please give me my Self-Realization". Say this three times.

Now, after the end of the meditation, see if you are feeling relaxed and if your thoughts have slowed down or gradually disappeared. This is the first stage of meditation - thoughtless awareness - where you are fully alert but without any thoughts, in a state of pure and peaceful consciousness.
Now see if you can feel a sensation of a gentle cool breeze in your palms and above your head. It might be warm in the beginning which is a sign that your Kundalini energy is purifying your chakras, but it will eventually cool down. You can verify it by placing your left palm 6-12 inches above your head, then trying with the right palm.

If you are unable to feel it, you have probably not forgiven everyone. Say again from your heart, "Mother, I forgive everyone" a few times and check again if you feel the cool breeze above your head.

This is the beginning of a fantastic journey into your own spiritual existence. It is a door opened to a new dimension of your awareness, which you can open and explore. I f sustained through regular meditation, you will be able to feel your subtle centers (chakras) as well as the chakras of others on your fingertips, and correct them using your spiritual energy (Kundalini).

when i did this i felt intense peace and could not help myself from crying.
much love all

[edit]
i wanted to add (JAKE) you might really like the kundalini book, because it can MAKE sense to you, since you know 'new energy ways' - because with the energy feeling, like let says the bottom of your feet....where those chakras are. SO COOL when you can picture those, in ADDITION to your energy work. i love it. i personally feel how you do, in many of the same ways, so i have a feeling you'll dig it.

(to start with for those who dont yet want to download the PDF - its 126 pages...now i dont know about you, but that size of book is like a pamphlet for me)



Physical Body
The physical body is the densest of the seven bodies, the only one which can be
seen without clairvoyant vision. Through the physical body we express, we
receive, we become aware. These seven chakra levels comprise the physical
body:
1. Physical Level
● Four Locations: heels of the feet and hands.
● Function: energy outlet for self assertion and for releasing physical
aggressiveness; power spots.
● Too open: very demanding.
● Blocked: tendency to walk more on the toes; not to express the self or no
desire to be noticed; a feeling of walking on egg shells; hands may seem
cold and pulled back; difficulty in reaching out, shaking hands or touching
others.
2. Emotional Level
● Location: spleen.
● Function: peace on the emotional level.
● Too open: excessive anger expressed, sometimes in unhealthy ways.
● Blocked: holding excessive anger which may be released in subconscious
ways.
3. Mental Level
● Four Locations: top of shoulders above the arm sockets and at the pelvic
bone on either side (sit bones).
● Function: expression of mental attitudes toward the body and its
functioning in the physical world.
● open: excessive awareness and preoccupation with the body. in
● Blocked: no awareness of exhaustion, fatigue or pain; not in touch with
the physical body and unable to work with its problems
4. IntuitionallCompassionate Level
● Two Locations: cheekbones, slightly below them and inside the jawbone.
● Function: releases energy for deeper understanding or compassion
toward the body.
● Too open: preoccupation with the body.
● Blocked: ignoring needs of the body; very similar to the previous chakra.
5. Will/Spirit Level
● Location: between the breasts on the breastbone.
● Function: willingness to really live life; provides willpower for physical
activities and for survival.
● Too open: lack of caution when caution is needed.● Blocked: fear of really living or putting one's heart -into actions;
sometimes no will to live.
6. Soul Level
● Two Locations: adrenal glands (on top of kidneys).
● Function: self-preservation; awareness of need for fight or flight; action on
an I AMness level; marshalling forces for a healthy body.
● Too open: too concerned with fight or flight or with getting one's own way.
● Blocked: needing to justify one's existence; feeling disconnected from soul
level; repressed anger; open to illness and feelings of rejection.
7. Divine Level
● Location: root chakra-coccyx bone (tail bone).
● Function: cleanses and harmonizes lower level energies; sense of
security through groundedness with earth and higher level energy.
● Too open: excessive risk taking.
● Blocked: lack of security; inability to handle lower level energies well.

[1 flew over]

Part 2
Dear People

All right two laps in the pool of experience and knowledge, I’ll now try a couple of more.

My next experience was also during Scientology auditing, though I forget what process we were on. When it happened it was sort of like the other one in that there were no real body manifestations. I found my awareness opening up to where I guess some would say that the Akashic record was opened to me. For a period, hummm how should I put this, I knew it all. My wife would probably tell you that I am always like that but that is another discussion. Why do we existed, why do we love, hate, become serine, get depressed. Why the universe appears as it does, how/who created it and why. Are there other beings, are there other beings in other dimensions or universes, are we also in other dimensions and universes. What causes a seed a foot underground start to grow upwards, why do I have to hit start to shut off my computer. You know, all the biggies. It was a magnificent place to be in. Once again I should have taken notes but I thought that this would last forever. After a week or so I was back to “normal” and now I am still trying to figure out how to make a good Caesar’s salad. My personal hypothesis about L Ron Hubbard is that he reached this place somewhere in the late 50s or early 60s and after a period of time he lost it and he drove himself nuts trying to regain the state.

My next one was at a combo workshop, we had just been learning and meditating with a wonderful Indian Hindu Monk working on opening up our hearts and had switched to different teachers to start studying the Kabbalah. We had studied for a few days and were walking a 40’ tall tree of life from bottom to top. At each Sefirot we would work to embody the specific energy of that field. When I entered Keter, the field of the Devine, I was filled with joyous love and everything around me shimmered in white light. I felt truly at home. Most of the others were not comfortable there but I could have easily stayed. I had tears of joy/bliss flowing down my face. I thought that my chest was going to explode and that my heart would expand to fill the room, well I guess it did, just not in the physical. Otherwise it would have been quite a mess to clean up. I have never been the same and can bring up that radiant heart whenever it feels appropriate. I tend not to open up like that when I am shooting pool in the local biker bar.

I have had other experiences but these have been the biggies. OK any feedback, suggestions, comments, sedatives? Yea, I know, next time I'll take notes.

Be Well
:confused: 1 Flew Over :confused:

[greybeard]

Answers To Kundalini Questions

FAQ’s about Kundalini and Kundalini awakening answered by Lawrence Edwards and Dorothy Walters.

Lawrence Edwards, Ph.D. responding to questions e-mailed to him:

1. What are the signs and symptoms of a Kundalini Awakening (KA)?

For countless centuries Kundalini awakening has been viewed by yogis as the greatest blessing and the esoteric goal of all forms of yoga - hatha yoga, mantra yoga, laya yoga, raja yoga, etc. To understand the range of possible experiences that go with Kundalini's blessings it is important to remember from the outset that Her domain encompasses all mental and physical types of experience and all transpersonal and transcendent types of experience as well. Every dimension of our lives can reflect activity, called kriyas - movements of Shakti, the awakened energy of Kundalini - and many dimensions of experience that transcend ordinary waking, dream and deep sleep states of consciousness and ego-bound awareness. Ordinarily all of our experiences fit within the categories or waking, dream and deep sleep - the ordinary states of consciousness in which ego awareness, defined by identification with mind/body and the roles and relationships it inhabits, operates on some level. Thus we think of ourselves as awake or asleep, a man or woman, husband or wife, son or daughter, blue collar or white collar worker, etc., etc., as we identify with various aspects of the mind and body functioning in the world. All of which are ephemeral and reveal only tiny, fractured reflections of our true Self, like shards of a broken mirror reflecting a few brilliant rays of the sun. The Buddha said “as we think, so we become.” By identifying with the containers of consciousness – the mind and body – we have the experience of being those containers with all their limitations, suffering, desires, etc.

Kundalini is the power of the Self to know its Self in complete unity consciousness and transform these vehicles of Consciousness, the mind and body, to be capable of manifesting more than just limited ego awareness and lower instinctual brain impulses. In that process of awakening and transformation Kundalini runs Shakti - the power of pure Consciousness - through all the systems of the subtle body and physical body, healing, purifying, expanding, breaking through blockages and burning through karmas. Because each individual differs in their karmic make up, the subtle impressions, the samskaras, being worked on by the Shakti through kriyas, each individual will have their own unique experiences. To blame Kundalini for what karmas and samskaras our physical and subtle bodies contain is another game of the mind trying to avoid responsibility for the consequences of its actions - past and present.

Physical kriyas include shaking, trembling, involuntary movements, sensations of heat or cold, horripilation, spontaneous hatha yoga postures, spontaneous alterations in breathing - pranayama, rushes of energy, rushes of sensual/sexual/orgasmic energy, stimulation of sex organs and orgasms, cessation of sexual desire or interest, loss of appetite, food cravings, tingling sensations, sparking/electricity sensations, the feeling of ants crawling all over one's skin, roaring like a lion, spontaneous sounds chanted or spoken aloud, spontaneous mudras and dance-like movements, gentle swaying during meditation, rocking back and forth, heart racing or pounding, breathing coming to a full stop and staying still, and more and more. People write poetry, sing, dance, paint, draw, create in new and never-before expressed ways, all inspired by Kundalini's grace. The gentle movements, breath alterations, rushes of energy, feeling of heat and cold, tingling, sounds and mantras, and sexual stimulation are most common, along with euphoric, blissful feelings and expansive states of love and unity awareness.

Each of our senses can manifest the movements of Kundalini. There are visions, colors, blue pearls and every conceivable archetypal form to be seen. There are divine scents, exquisite sounds, supersensuous touch, and ambrosial tastes to be experienced as gift of Shri Kundalini.


MORE ON THE LINK>


https://sites.google.com/site/kundalinisupport/kundalini-questions

[greybeard]

Lawrence Edwards spent years studying with Muktananda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muktananda

There are two of Lawrence's talks on sounds true you can join for free to access this and much more.
http://www.soundstrue.com/shop/welcome

Chris

[1 flew over]

Lawrence Edwards spent years studying with Muktananda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muktananda

There are two of Lawrence's talks on sounds true you can join for free to access this and much more.
http://www.soundstrue.com/shop/welcome

Chris

Chris

Thank you for your info. I am very busy over the next few days but I will read it all. I appreciate your input. My wife has a membership to soundstrue. I'll check with her and download and listen to them over the next week while I drive. Damn I love new info!

Be Well

1 Flew Over

[greybeard]

I would recommend Shaktipat from an enlightened teacher if this is at all possible.
The touch controls the Kundalini movement, thus its not too extreme.

Some Christian ministers do this though they would not call it Shaktipat.

Chris

[Izheheruvim]

My Kundalini Experiences ...
energy started in base chakra and worked its way up, it feels like bubbles going up the middle of the body...

Thanks for sharing that, Mitm. So much of your experiences tallied with mine. In particular, your "bubbles" comment was like a trigger, a time machine, instantaneously transporting me back over a decade to the time and place where the same sensation made it's way through me.

Slava, I'm a little puzzled as to how you can verify my experience here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62016-The-Kundalini-Is-The-Holy-Spirit--What-Your-Church-Doesn-t-Want-You-To-Know&p=728410&viewfull=1#post728410) and yet nullify someone else's who I identified with 100%.
Mitm's description fits mine to a tee. I also concurred with much of what Jake was sharing and, again it didn't seem to pass your hot/cold hand kundalini authenticity test. Are you sure you can rely on it's accuracy? It seems a bit hit and miss to me.

Sorry to be on your case all the time btw ;)

Akasha, i don't mind you being on my case as long as you're not making disrespectful and irrelevant comments about Shri Mataji. Otherwise it helps me to refine and expand my understanding and test my sensitivity. I asked again addressing my Kundalini shakti if some of the experiences Akasha had had have to do with Kundalini, and i felt cool vibrations on my hands and her flow freely rising to Sahasrara. When i asked the same question about Mitm i felt warm vibrations on my palms, heaviness in my Agiya, and blockage in Sahasrara. However puzzling it may seem, that's what i've felt.

Unfortunately, at this point of time my sensitivity is still compromised and some of my major issues aren't resolved yet. I don't know how my perception, sensitivity, and outlook will change if clearing process proves success. I admit that by participating in this forum and trying to make some authoritative claims i kind of 'jumped the gun' in a way. At the same time, i do have certain experiences and knowledge as well as sense of urgency of sharing them however incomplete they are. I don't know whether i'll able to become a fully-fledged yogi in the nearest future that would definitely give much more substance to my words. The only thing i'm quite sure about, and probably it's the most valid excuse for me to be involved in this discussion, that i'm neither this body, nor emotions, nor thoughts, nor ego, nor conditionings. So a certain amount of self-transcendence is there as a result of what i'm doing.

To sum up: i'm sharing what i have, and what i have got i have no doubt about, keeping in mind that i could have had much more to share if conditions were more favorable. I just feel that there's lots of confusion about Kundalini, and it needs somehow to be sorted out for the benefit of all the aspirants. And my participation here i see as a humble contribution to this effect.

Based on what i've experienced and learned, including from experiences of some of the members of this discussion, here's my understanding of Kundalini and what can be misinterpreted as her workings. But first i'd like to pay homage to Shri Gauri Kundalini, the auspicious and pure bride of Shri Shiva. Salutations to you! Let no untruth about this holy subject would come from my being.

I believe that one of the most important things that should be understood about Kundalini shakti is that she is a living and intelligent energy of the highest spiritual caliber. In other words, she is a part and parcel of the Divine Feminine. She treats an individual she is awakened in as her spiritual child with all precaution, gentleness and love. So whatever descriptions of her as being wild and reckless, or indiscriminate, or something to be particularly controlled (as opposed to her own expertise), or having some lower nature related to sexuality or sentimentality should be discarded. As written in some earlier post, essentially Kundalini shakti is the emotional component of the pure awareness, or Self, and once one becomes tapped into Self this emotional component becomes more and more pronounced as much more subtle, delicate and beautiful emotional reactions, among other things.

Well, what to do with all experiences of something being awakened from the bottom of the body and rising all the way up that would be somehow at odds with the above description? First, it's important to familiarize with workings of the subtle body since precision does matter here. This particular chart is a rather simplified one but it should give a general idea:

http://s6.postimg.org/wfwgg2ew1/Subtle_chart.jpg

According to this chart, Kundalini shakti is placed in the sacrum bone above Mooladhara chakra, with the central channel being her major pathway. The left channel implicated in desires, including sexual desire, emotions and feelings starts from Mooladhara chakra. The right channel starts from Swadhistan chakra, or the second energy center.

These channels look as placed quite far off from each other. But actually Shri Mataji describes them this way:


...But when your Kundalini rises, one or two strands out of this come up and pierce the fontanel bone area – only one or two. Because it has to pass through the innermost nadi, known as Brahma Nadi [central channel]. It’s all a spiral throughout because Kundalini is a spiral and these nadis are also – are like a spiral like this. So the innermost nadi is the Brahma Nadi. The outermost nadi is the right side and the second innermost is the Ida Nadi [left channel] Shri Adi Kundalini puja, 1991

It seems that these three channels are placed in a sort of 'Russian nesting doll' fashion close to each other. And here's an important implication: whenever something starts rising from Mooladhara chakra it can only use the left channel and more outward energy meridians, including on the top of the head. And since channels lie quite close subjectively it can be perceived as rising along the central channel, especially if one has no other experience to compare with. Coming back to the chart, the left channel ends up in the right hemisphere of the brain. What may happen when the right hemisphere becomes excited in an unusual way is described in this video:

UyyjU8fzEYU
Among other things, Jill Bolte is talking about the sense of unity with everything in the universe, aside from profound feeling of love that she has experienced. Probably many people here would be able to relate to this experience, and actually it doesn't seem a bad thing at all to be able to feel. The only thing, she experienced that at as a result of stroke, in other words, something pathological to begin with that would make her left hemisphere fail, and she had a long road of recovery. Also, feeling of unity is just a part of the process of enlightenment whereas the second major part has to do with discretion. And part of this discretion (though by "discretion" i mean something much more subtle) is that unity with everything doesn't mean anything. Referring back to Gita, "All beings reside in Me but I do not dwell in all beings". So it looks like some of "Kundalini" experiences fall under this category when actually the left channel becomes activated and some entity, whether benevolent or not particularly so, is rising from Mooladhara. How it gets there in the first place is another story. But it may open up 'the peripheral vision' and another dimensions of reality to tap into as a result of this 'left-sided' movement.

Another category would include "protective mechanisms" as a result of wrong methods of awakening Kundalini shakti. These mechanisms can be violent, i.e. a rush of heat or pangs of pain that would be triggered by Mooladhara chakra or, to be more specific, its presiding deity Shri Ganesh. As i understand it, often it happens as a result of manipulations with sexual energy, quite a useless and detrimental thing for spiritual ascent (i mean manipulation). To the point, in some cases of genuine Kundalini awakening one can still experience a certain amount of discomfort, like heat or pain in certain energy centers and channels but there should be drawn a line of discretion. In this case it wouldn't be something really violent or unbearable since Kundalini will try to work it out in the most delicate way. It would only mean the existence of some energy that shouldn't really belong there. Clearing out eventually feels as a relief.

The last category would be genuine awakening of Kundalini. I believe that what i have experienced so far is genuine, and whatever i believe to be relevant and important about this experience i have pointed out. You can challenge its genuineness but i'm afraid ("being afraid", of course, is a figure of speech) i will still be able to feel softness and serenity of Self. If i happen to get in touch with Self on a deeper level and my chakras get purified more, probably i will have more to say.

Just a few words in the end. Whatever you're up to it seems i'm also good to go whether i'm right or wrong about my experiences, and some sort of collective awakening will sweep me along regardless of my ideas. But if i'm right it would mean that some of you need to exercise more discretion when touching the subject of Kundalini and understanding your experiences in particular and collective awakening in general.

Peace

[greybeard]

I think its important to realise that different Gurus (removers of ignorance) had different experiences as Kundalini rose to its full potential, therefore their teaching may have some differences, particularly in what is to be expected and whatever technique may or may not be helpful.

In form there may be differences but formless they are all One.

Chris

[Izheheruvim]

Chris,

I believe that in this case, however superficial differences may arise, on the level of vibrations they must fade away. For example, i can feel positive responses about Shri Ramana Maharshi and some other figures. My Kundalini can recognize them as genuine teachers whatever mental attitude i may have. Same principle applies when my Kundalini doesn't recognize someone. Of course, my sensitivity should be taken into account too.

[1 flew over]

Howdy Good People

I’ve been reading some of your posts and links. Jimminii mentioned to me on another thread to look up a couple of definitions in The Cof$ Technical Dictionary and one definitely struck a chord of truth of at least two of my experiences. Since I was doing Scientology processes at the time it makes sense. The term was “Native State” which Hubbard says that we all derive from. I am sure that Eastern Philosophies have their term for it. Defined as such: Native State; 1. The potential for knowing everything. 3. The thetan (being) is not connected with space, energy, mass. He doesn’t have any dimension. 4. Native state is total knowingness. It looks like doing the processes I may have bumped into Native state then slipped back into this reality after a bit. It was quite a trip to find myself completely separated and not a part of everything that I have ever known as “real”.
I am still working on the other two but I appreciate your help.

Be Well
1 Flew Over

[greybeard]

More to be found on Kundalini here

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.&p=744809&viewfull=1#post744809

[Izheheruvim]

"Kundalini is a life energy which is also sexual energy" sounds rather blasphemous to me and casts a shadow on whatever thorough research done by movie makers.

The only relationship with sex could be controlling sexual desires by not allowing attention to go there. This way the quality of innocence can be strengthened that would support Kundalini shakti on her rise.

Also, seeing light is not the point. You can see something only if you are not one with it. I fully agree though when they compare an awakened human being with an eye (they refer to Bible and Buddha) that doesn't see the light per se but rather sees through or by means of the light.

[GloriousPoetry]

Izheheruvim

Yes kundalini is also sexual energy.....this is one of the episodes I experienced during the 4 months it ran throughout my body.
It lifts you in a sexual way that is beyond the physical notion of what sexuality is in this world.... hard to explain but it almost made me cry......in a good way....as a woman who was abused as a child I reclaimed my sexual power on another level that goes beyond the crude sense of sexuality.....

[Freed Fox]

For what it's worth, I don't believe there is anything inherently perverse or profane about sexuality or sexual energy. Leaving aside whether or not it is tied to or involved with Kundalini, I believe it is only the modern (or in some cases such as certain organized religions, 'traditional'/antiquated) notion of sexuality which has been tarnished. If the act of sex is not abused, but rather explored appropriately (involving love, or at the very least mutual consent and respect), then there is nothing at all impure or wrong about it in my opinion.

[Izheheruvim]

Gloriouspoetry, it's a pity to know about your experience of being abused. I hope you are healed now, whether it was Kundalini or not.

Freed Fox, i also believe that there's nothing inherently wrong or perverse about sexuality. My point is that sexual energy is not Kundalini, as simple as that. And, in my opinion, it's wrong to mix them.

Peace :)

[greybeard]

I think its very important to be open minded and in a surrendered state.
Kundalini, being Divine intelligence, knows exactly what is best for each aspirant.
There has been times when my sex drive was non existent and even if I mentally created a desire by force of will, no erection was forthcoming.
There have been other times when just walking down the street a sexual though would come spontaneously to mind and up it would come effortlessly.
Thankfully there was never an embarrassing situation caused by this.

Basically what Im suggesting is that you cant put Kundalini Shakti into a concept box----it does as it does in-spite of this self.
God probably laughs at our concepts, rules and regulations.
Chris

[GloriousPoetry]

Izheheruvim,

Thank you for your thoughts....yes I have healed my past... I worked with a female shaman who helped me cut emotional and spiritual cords. I felt those cords and learned that every time we have a sexual encounter we are exchanging powerful energy. Therefore be very selective!! The cosmic energy known as Kundalini is not sexual energy per se.... I guess I should be more clear about what I meant in my last posting.....kundalini penetrates all chakra (vortexes) and it synthesizes with each of these portals of energy and so I can see why people mix it up.

And Freed Fox ....sexuality is not a perverse act....however the interpretation of what sexuality is in mainstream thought is crude in the sense that it is only understood for procreation and pleasure. Nothing wrong with this but I believe that on a higher vibration we can learn to harness sexual energy for more powerful stuff.......healing and cosmic knowledge that expands 3D awareness.

[greybeard]

There have been several teachers of the Tantric mode who claimed to have been enlightened through using sexual practise with a partner in a joined meditative way.
Bernie Prior and Barry Long come to mind.

Whatever it seems that Kundalini energy either prepares the body over a long period of time to hold the enlightened energy or it can happen as the enlightened state occurs.
Adyashati said that in his case the Kundalini energy worked on his body for years after enlightenment.
Dr Hawkins said that Kundalini will always happen at some time in the process of enlightenment.

Words of course dont really do justice to any of it.
There is no one left to claim enlightenment.

Generally speaking, if God gives you a Guru Its probably best to stick with what that one gives you.
The starting point of every aspirant is different.

Ramana sometimes seemed to give conflicting advice, he would say meditation is not necessary to one and advocate it to another.
Same with mantra, mudra or breath control, for some yes for some no.

I just let Kundalini get on with it---for example my whole nervous system was vibrating today and recently I have been sleeping 14 hours a day, sometimes the world seems unreal and I have a floating sensation when walking and am unsteady on my feet..
Then another day Im sharp bright full of energy.
Im fit, I go to the gym regularly, walk a lot, I have every medical test under the sun, these confirm Im remarkably fit for my age.
I never claim to know or to be right, I just share what I have found or personally experienced.

So that's the story

Chris

[Izheheruvim]

I think its very important to be open minded and in a surrendered state.
Kundalini, being Divine intelligence, knows exactly what is best for each aspirant.
There has been times when my sex drive was non existent and even if I mentally created a desire by force of will, no erection was forthcoming.
There have been other times when just walking down the street a sexual though would come spontaneously to mind and up it would come effortlessly.
Thankfully there was never an embarrassing situation caused by this.

Basically what Im suggesting is that you cant put Kundalini Shakti into a concept box----it does as it does in-spite of this self.
God probably laughs at our concepts, rules and regulations.
Chris

Chris, in the universe there are both constants and variables if i am to use mathematical language. I believe that as the most important constant we can safely choose God. He cannot cease to exist, and He cannot alter the way He exists, i.e. being creative, compassionate or full of bliss, however wide we open our minds. Kundalini shakti is beyond our concepts since she is not a concept. But concepts can have a more or less accurate descriptions of reality, especially when we deal with rather fundamental things, with Kundalini shakti being among them.

I've become quite certain about the nature of Kundalini or what i am calling as "Kundalini", if you will. Based on my experience, observations and study of religious literature i concluded that Kundalini has some inherent qualities and is missing others. First of all, she is a living, responsive energy, and what she definitely has is purity, chastity, love, patience, forgiveness, intelligence, determination, all-in-one. What she doesn't possess is lust, greed, and malice. I personally have never had an experience when my Mooladhara chakra was sexually excited and my Kundalini was strongly up at the same time. This kind of excitement would always feel as warmth, and if i direct my attention to its source it may cool down, and after some time i would feel my Kundalini strongly again. I guess only when you have a similar experience you can differentiate between sexual energy and Kundalini shakti as well as understand how much they are far from each other and why i become rather adamant when people try to equate or somehow mix them. That's why i'd tried before to define what i understand as "Kundalini" and how other experiences fit or don't fit into this description.

I'll try to put it this way. In my understanding Kundalini is a living, intelligent and benevolent energy that cannot be misused somehow against her will, and her will would be based upon fundamental qualities i've pointed out. Sexual energy doesn't have any intelligence on its own since it works purely in automatic, instinctive way. For this energy it doesn't matter if it's used for a healthy sex or gang rape, so it's both blind and "dead" in a sense. And i'm really curious how this dead energy can be worked on in such a way that it gets transformed into something living and intelligent. Well, only evolutionists who do not recognize spiritual realm could agree to this possibility. To put it differently, why to transform sexual energy into something higher if there's already something higher without any transformation whatsoever, just patiently waiting to be triggered?

But it's my personal experience, knowledge and common sense. I presented them and not going to argue or convince anyone in their validity. And i will only agree to revise my experience if someone gives a more substantiated view that would map my experience into even a larger picture, along with all other experiences people might be having, will all confidence and expertise.

Peace

[Izheheruvim]

Felt like sharing this poems of Kabir:

Burning, I found Ram's water:
it cooled my flaming body. (Rest)

Though you go to forests
to kill your ego -
you will never find Bhagwan
without this water.

Fire burned
both gods and men -
Ram's water saved
His slaves.

Amidst this world's ocean
is a pool of solace;
though you drink from it forever,
it never dries up.

Kabir says,
"Praise Sarangpani;
the water of Ram
has quenched my thirst."

[greybeard]

Im not saying that sexual energy is Kundalini, all I know is that there are times when I have no available energy to do even mundane things.
So my hope is that this energy is being used by Kundalini to transform the nervous system and neuron path ways in the brain. (Nadi)

Kundalini is not a concept but some thoughts about what she will or will not do are concepts.
God and therefore Shakti is without limit.
I read some where "If it took throwing you of a cliff to enlighten you, then your higher self would gladly do it" --------whatever it takes.

Chris

[Izheheruvim]

Im not saying that sexual energy is Kundalini, all I know is that there are times when I have no available energy to do even mundane things.
So my hope is that this energy is being used by Kundalini to transform the nervous system and neuron path ways in the brain. (Nadi)

Chris, what kind of energy used by Kundalini are you referring to? Sexual energy? Just to make it clear.


Kundalini is not a concept but some thoughts about what she will or will not do are concepts.
God and therefore Shakti is without limit.

"God and therefore Shakti is without limit" is also a concept :) And God, by the way, has a limit - He cannot die. Or, He cannot create a rock that He wouldn't be able to lift )) In sum, He cannot go beyond His own nature. I believe that a concept stops being just a concept when it's backed up with factual evidence, and i tried present whatever evidence i have.


I read some where "If it took throwing you of a cliff to enlighten you, then your higher self would gladly do it" --------whatever it takes.

Chris

In this case enlightenment should be understood as "behavior modification" )) But if you understand it as Kundalini shakti uniting with Lord Shiva a much more delicate process should take place.

[greybeard]

Frankly I can only guess.
There is an almost total drain on all my energy and that includes the ability to make love.
So the guess is that energy is being used for some other function within the body.
It quite a contrast between being full of physical energy and then for a few days very little.
Im attempting to understand something in form when its beyond form and formless.

As for factual evidence--- that's for the intellect--- It can not be spoken of as far as God-Realisation goes.

I do agree its not behaviour modification particularly as there is not a "me" left.

Even the word God brings a concept with it --different from one person to another.

The words are redundant when there is even an intellectual understanding that only Self is---Only One Self-- One without a second.

I dont see that God has limits--- The sages say that God is Love but God has no attributes. God does not actually do anything.
There is nothing separate from God, for God to do anything with--- Subject and object are one.
Its beyond mind to grasp.
We are trying to fit something beyond our limited understanding into a mind box.
Having said that we do as best we can.
All the knowledge of spirituality reduces to One Truth--- Only God is.

Chris

[Izheheruvim]

Will see what happens. If all people or at least majority of people are able to awaken regardless of what they are doing and which values and ideas of Divinity they are sticking to, i will take back my words if i am going to witness that. As i said before to Jake, i'll just laugh at this discussion if i still remember it. But if somehow Awakening bogs down despite all the good intentions, probably it'll be due to the fact that certain conditions weren't observed and certain Divine principles weren't respected. I guess we can at least agree that there's too much unnecessary suffering going on and something should be radically changed. I personally try to advocate my views only because i see them as the means to remove suffering, and i have a certain amount of faith that it's possible to do. Probably my language is too precise and categorical while i'm expected to be more fuzzy and non-judgmental. But that's the way i am. I hope no one was offended or dispirited with my posts. It was nice to participate in this discussion. Good luck to all in all which is good! :)

[greybeard]

Dear Izheheruvim. I am not sure where you get the idea that its advocated here that people will spontaneously awaken without adhering to spiritual principals.
Kundalini leads me to several spiritual techniques each day--- I have not gone looking for them--I just felt drawn to practice these.
108 Om Nama-Shivia mantra-- The Gayatri-- and meditation.

The path of enlightenment is the most arduous task I have ever taken.

Each teacher will have ideas on spiritual principals and are appropriate to that path.

Ramesh Balsekar did say that "Every spiritual teacher is teaching a concept"

Knowing about it is not the same as being it.
I knew a lot about various spiritual techniques but through time most drop away.

Ramana was perhaps the most clear and kept it simple.
He knew all the complex Upanishads Vedas etc and said "If you see God as different or separate from your self then you will not realise Self." my words

His advice as Is Nasargadatta's "Know thy Self" "I am That" Any thought which says that you are different or in anyway separate from the Ultimate is unhelpful to say the least.

Chris

[Izheheruvim]

Dear Chris, couple days ago i was given a book of Kabir's poetry that i am fascinated with.

One poem goes:


"Meditation and worship
are my earrings,
true concepts, my beggar's blanket..."

True concepts, or what we consider to be true concepts, or whether concepts can be true seem to be the stumbling block. You say we cannot put God or Kundalini into a concept. I say that we can describe them using concepts, or i should specify "true concepts". An implication of that is if someone is using untrue concepts or tries to avoid any concepts then he or she may go astray and be lost in maya. An implication of what you are saying is that any path will lead to God. We both are taking responsibility but yours seems to be much greater.

[greybeard]

Dear Izheheruvim.
Krishna said "Even those who run in the wrong direction are mine"
True not all spiritual paths lead to Realization.
My path gets narrower and narrower
I started daily Thirty years ago to seek Truth so yes I have been up some blind alleys===Neity Neity.
K awakens though past merits--- so I must have got something right.
The statement that "I dont do anything" is miss leading and assumes the listener has studied deeply and fully understands the expression "Right action"
K leads you to complete surrender where you intuit that you are not the doer but God within is moving through you and right action occurs.
Yet there is a degree of responsibility for the action. True concepts are very subtle and easily misunderstood.
You cant go wrong with Self enquiry, prayer for knowledge of Gods will (Please God how may I serve you?) meditation.
Spirituality being somewhat complex misunderstandings arise.
Dr Hawkins and others said all belief systems concepts etc must be released but that is coming to the end of the process.
Its not so much a path as You are already enlightened just not aware of it, its a process of the removal of obstacles.
So in the beginning many tools may be required, then bit by bit these are discarded as they have done their job, eventually the silent mind.
Ramana said "You cant tell the the amount of progress by the degree that the mind is silent."
After a while there is no more chasing after answers or looking to confirm that one is correct. (Been there)
In the still silence who is there to be right or wrong?

Chris

[Izheheruvim]

Chris, are you in the still silence?

[greybeard]

Chris, are you in the still silence?

A lot of the time but im not enlightened.
The mind is very quiet except when I require to think.
Even when thoughts come they are relatively quiet and don't demand attention.
Some times I slip and identify with the thoughts as mine then realise and step back into observing and witnessing.
Its taken quite a long time ---the practice has been to observe without mental comment.
I used to love to analyse -- the intellect was very busy figuring out.
When a though arises I can ask the question "Who had that thought?" the answer is me, then the question is "Who is this me?"
Who is asking these questions? Who needs to know? The answer is of course me.
Now I don't need to know I don't have to be right and so on.

I do interact--- how else would I pass time in this world? ---
Be in this world but not of it--was a quote attributed to Jesus also. Wear the world like a loose garment.

Since I made a commitment to God many things have just fallen away--what was once so dreadfully important is not so now.
When the mind is silent life is seen differently.
Every time the mind comments on what is observed one is drawn into the mind and memory one is no longer fully present enjoying the moment.

Chris

[bodhii71]

Does anyone know what video was posted in the OP? It seems the entire YouTube account has been "removed by user" Usually, this is because the content is actually of value. I am interested in learning more about the topic. Thanks!

[Akasha]

Does anyone know what video was posted in the OP? It seems the entire YouTube account has been "removed by user" Usually, this is because the content is actually of value. I am interested in learning more about the topic. Thanks!

The thread was started by TruthSeekah. His youtube channel is here (http://www.youtube.com/user/TruthSeekah?feature=watch). The channel is now called "Derek TruthSeekah Grosskurth". As far as I can remember (not very far) it used to be simply called "TruthSeekah". The OP video, an interview between him and a "liberal" biblical scholar, was on his previous "TruthSeekah" channel. It's not on his new channel.

Is it possible that as a christian, TruthSeekah finally concluded that according to his belief system, kundalini is in fact not the holy spirit, he'd been a very naughty boy and the best thing to do was to remove all evidence of ever suggesting such blasphemy?

It certainly would be ironic. C'mon, TS....what's the coo?

Cheers.

PS: Maybe one of the mod's can clarify why TruthSeekah's status is now "anonymous guest" as opposed to "TruthSeekah unsubscribed" or something similar to that.

[bodhii71]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a4pijQQD0s

I believe this video, albeit very long has some very good info in it in regards to the kundalini. The talk meanders into other related areas too, but well worth the time.This is actually the second interview hosted by Rick Archer. Buddha at the Gas Pump.

P.S. Thanks Akasha... sounds like it may have been a distraction anyway. Peace.

[greybeard]

That is a truly amazing interview that you have posted here Bodhii71
I must look for the first interview
Thanks
Chris

[Kalamos]

..........]

[bodhii71]

That is a truly amazing interview that you have posted here Bodhii71
I must look for the first interview
Thanks
Chris

Yes, it was complete syncroncity, I came across this video right after my visit to this page, without the intent of looking for anything Kundalini related. I believe there is great clarity spoken in that video and found myself watching twice.

Did a little research on IGOR KUFAYEV. I like it! I just wish I didn't have a list of distractions to go through. Maybe I drop everything spend a little time on his website. It's nice there. http://www.igorkufayev-vamadeva.com/#
I have spent some time there as too, well worth the time.

The Buddha at the Gas Pump interviews are a wealth of real people with real experiences, I cannot recommend them enough if one is on the path.

[TruthSeekah]

8d5FcxnVGCY

[carriellbee]

I had not even heard the word Kundalini before the spontaneous awakening.
I did yoga, meditation and was reading some spiritual books nothing intensive though.
Hope this helps.

Chris

Chris, I thought I was the only one who had never heard of Kundalini before a spontaneous awakening! The first time I heard the word was a couple of days after my own awakening when a friend said it after hearing my description of the experience. Not only had I not heard of Kundalini, but I had never even meditated or done yoga and was about as far away from spiritual (as defined by most) as it is possible to be. BUT, I had been unemployed for quite a while and so was using my time to research things I had questions about, to explore my creativity and most importantly, to reflect on my relationships at great length. When I finally stopped thinking about how others had wronged me and how unfair it all was and started to REALLY consider how MY words and actions were the cause of, or at least the prelude to, others' actions toward me. I began to see all of life as a symphony. I play my part and others play in harmony. I began to realize that I alone am responsible for my part. It was shortly after realizing this that my awakening occurred.

My spontaneous awakening/Kundalini/Holy Spirit experience came out of nowhere (or so it seemed at the time). It was not jolting or scary. It was amazing and I am grateful every single day that it happened. I made a post a couple of weeks ago about it, if anyone is interested. :cool:

[greybeard]

Cariellbee we are indeed fortunate.
K changes our perception, we can see our own mistaken thinking clearly, we can see and understand others points of view almost effortlessly,the neurons in the brain change, we literally become a different person.
Because of change in attitude (more right brain too) life seems so much easier.

Best wishes
Chris

[Izheheruvim]

Hello, there :)

Here's an elaboration on "My Search For Truth" that should shed more light on some of its basic ideas, including the notion of balance as a requirement for awakening and establishing of Kundalini. Have a nice read!

[1 flew over]

Hello, there :)

Here's an elaboration on "My Search For Truth" that should shed more light on some of its basic ideas, including the notion of balance as a requirement for awakening and establishing of Kundalini. Have a nice read!

Izheheruvim

Thanks for the info, I will have downloaded it and will read it through. I have always wanted to know "The Theory of Everything". Factually I have wanted to know "the answer to everything" even more, buy I don't want to be picky.

Be Well
1 Flew Over

[Izheheruvim]

1 Flew Over, you will see there is a snag to this theory of everything but hopefully you won't be disappointed :)

Kind regards,
Slava

[1 flew over]

1 Flew Over, you will see there is a snag to this theory of everything but hopefully you won't be disappointed :)

Kind regards,
Slava

Slava

I have learned to not let others' theories, predictions, beliefs or viewpoints disappointment me, we are all where we are at. Otherwise life on planet earth might not be overly enjoyable.
Bye the way who wrote this "the theory of everything", do you know?:confused:

Be Well
1 Flew Over

[greybeard]

Its all levels of perception.
At the highest level--so iv'e read by different sages-- nothing happened.
There is no time nor space for anything to happen.
Idra's dream.

At the end of a Tantra video i watched, the curtain moved and the narrator said "Did the curtain move or was it the mind"
That kind of sums it up.
Now in fairness I had certain held beliefs when I started the "search" as each level was transcended, the beliefs associated with the previous level were seen to be no longer helpful.
A new set of beliefs help for a time till they in turn became an obstacle to further progress.
A biggie is seeing God as, in any way, separate from what I am.
No level is superior to another, all helped.

God is within everything without exception.

Once Kundalini is awakened it would seem that surrender is paramount to progress.
What once was important to know now becomes secondary to the question "What am I?"
I want to know the Truth and its not to be found in books though some point the way.
Its internal--to be found in the heart cave.

Its a demolition job. Not this, not this.
All that is not True is released and then Self stands out revealed.

Chris

[Shabd_Mystic]

I only read the first couple of posts but wanted to say that, according to Sant Mat, which I follow (Kabir, Nanak, Rumi, Sawan Singh, etc.), the "Holy Spirit" is very different from Kundalini. The Holy Spirit is the "Shabd." It is the form of God that is in all living creatures and is what gives everything life. In The Bible it is also called the Word, the Logos and several other things.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Kundalini is a very different thing. I have had Kundalini raging for more than 3 years now and I also experience the Shabd (or Holy Spirit). That actually comes in the form of indescribable "music" that you can hear in your right ear during mystical practices (meditation). The Holy Spirit / Shabd is the form that God takes on these "lower realms" and at the lowest is the sound of a bell. The sound changes as you leave the astral realm and go higher into different spheres but it is an incredible sound unlike anything you've ever heard before. It almost has a 3D quality. It is also very "pulling."

It is this Shabd that actually "engulfs" the soul and allows it to traverse the different spheres. Paul even spoke of the "third heaven" in the Bible. (The Bible is jam packed with mystical references many which are no longer even recognized for what they are. (The Gnostics centered their beliefs on the very same things Sant Mat does.) This happens after you have been able to develop incredible concentration. Your body parts slowly begin to lose feeling as the "life force," or "soul," begins to leave the body. When the entire body goes numb the soul travels to the astral realm and the music is heard very clearly.

It is the soul leaving the body that Paul referenced when he said "I die daily." It is what many mystics have called "dying while living." It is the exact same thing that happens at death except that the soul doesn't completely abandon the body and returns when you are done meditating. The "Holy Ghost" is what pulls you and what helps you travel higher and higher until you reach "the top." As you progress you see many incredible things and it slowly purifies you so you become a much better person, more loving and compassionate. It also begins to fill you with bliss (you can see the results of mystical practices on someone like the Dali Lama).

Anyway, I didn't want to get too much into all that. I just wanted to share the part referring to Kundalini and the Holy Ghost. For additional reference here are some other terms from various religions and spiritual paths that refer to the same thing:

Aᾱdi Shabd,
Akash Bani,
Akhand Kirtan,
Amon,
Amrit,
Anhad Shabd,
Anahat Shabd,
Anᾱhata Shabda,
Anhad-Bani,
Audible Life Stream,
Aum,
Bang-I-Llahi,
Bani,
the Celestial Voice,
Cosmic Manna,
Creative Verbum,
Crystal Rain,
Divine Light,
Divine Music,
Essential Sound,
Holy Ghost,
Inner Sound,
Jauhar,
Jyoti,
Kalam-i-Ilahi,
Kalam-i-Qadim,
Kalma,
Living Waters,
Logos,
Mul,
Mῡl Shabd,
Music of the Spheres,
Naad,
Naam,
Nad,
Nada,
Nada Bindu,
Nam,
Nama,
Nida-I-Asmani,
Nur-I-Yazdani,
the Path of Aton,
Prakash,
Pranava,
Primal Sound,
Root Sound,
Sabda,
Sacha Shabd,
Sar Shabd,
Sat Shabd,
Saut-e Sarmad,
Saut,
Schem,
Shabad,
Shabd,
Shabd Dhᾱrᾱ,
Shabd ki Dhᾱr,
Shabd Dhun,
Shabda,
Sharosha,
Shiv,
Song of the Creator,
Songlines,
Sound Current,
Sound from the Sky,
Sound of God,
Sraosha,
Sruti,
Sultan-ul-Szkar,
Tajalli,
Tao,
The King of all Sounds,
The Great Name,
True Word,
Udgit,
Udgeeth,
the Unstruck Music,
Unstruck Sound,
Vak,
Voice of God,
Water of Life,
Way of the Law,
Word,
Wordless Word

[Chester]

I found the True Spirit... which I guess in some religions is what they like to call the Holy Spirit. How I found that within me was I worked at pealing back the layers of defense I had created which were necessary to fend of the attacks I received due to where I positioned my spirit through who knows how long a journey of self deception.

I haven't undone all the lies, but I have undone most.

There was a direct correlation of this effort to the rising of my "Kundalini" which manifests in the form of significantly enhanced psi abilities and a natural sense of balanced metaphysical positioning and a much broader world view led by compassion.

If it were not for this forum - which means the folks who have worked with me, argued with me, allowed me to sometimes be an outright dummy - I don't think this would have ever happened for me.

This is my Christmas Thank You to all here behind Avalon, all members and all readers.

[carriellbee]

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Kundalini is a very different thing. I have had Kundalini raging for more than 3 years now and I also experience the Shabd (or Holy Spirit). That actually comes in the form of indescribable "music" that you can hear in your right ear during mystical practices (meditation). The Holy Spirit / Shabd is the form that God takes on these "lower realms" and at the lowest is the sound of a bell. The sound changes as you leave the astral realm and go higher into different spheres but it is an incredible sound unlike anything you've ever heard before. It almost has a 3D quality. It is also very "pulling."

It is this Shabd that actually "engulfs" the soul and allows it to traverse the different spheres. Paul even spoke of the "third heaven" in the Bible. (The Bible is jam packed with mystical references many which are no longer even recognized for what they are. (The Gnostics centered their beliefs on the very same things Sant Mat does.) This happens after you have been able to develop incredible concentration. Your body parts slowly begin to lose feeling as the "life force," or "soul," begins to leave the body. When the entire body goes numb the soul travels to the astral realm and the music is heard very clearly.

Oh, thank you, Shabd_Mystic! I have never heard anyone else mention that they have heard this sound. I have heard it and it was the most beautiful thing I have ever heard. It is truly indescribably beautiful.

[Izheheruvim]

Of course, Kundalini shakti is not the Holy Ghost or Adi Shakti in all Her entirety, she is only a little part of Her. But for human beings this part is essential.

[Shabd_Mystic]

Oh, thank you, Shabd_Mystic! I have never heard anyone else mention that they have heard this sound. I have heard it and it was the most beautiful thing I have ever heard. It is truly indescribably beautiful.

That's GREAT! Few people are ever so blessed before getting on the "right" path. That probably means that you are "destined" for more. It truly is an incredible, indescribable experience. There are so many incredible things "out there" that few are even aware of. As the Bible said, "seek and ye shall find."

Thank you for sharing that. That was great to read!

[Shabd_Mystic]

I just saw this online and thought I'd share:



Inner Sound

Many cultures of the world have had some type of creation myth that involved sound, usually sound as the first creation and that everything else created came from such ‘otherworldly’ sound in the ether. A number of spiritual, mystical and religious texts have spoken of this metaphysical equation of sound as an element of their most honored traditions. Plato wrote that the cosmos was constructed according to musical intervals and proportions. Pythagoras called it ‘Music of the Spheres’ believing that it fills our inner ears and we are constantly in contact with it from the moment of birth.

Another Greek philosopher, Heraclitus, called it ‘Logos’ (divine word or sound). Some Native American traditions call it ‘Song of the Creator,’ while the Bible calls it ‘The Word’ and ‘Voice of Many Waters’. Hindus refer to it as ‘Anahad Shabd’ (unlimited tone or unstruck melody) and ‘Akash Bani’ (voice from the heavens), while the Sufis say it is ‘Saute Surmad’ (tone that fills the cosmos). Lao Tzu described the Tao as ‘unimpeded harmony’ and referred to the ‘Great Tone’ as the source of all things.

In the deeper esoteric world of mystics, there is the spiritual meditative practice called Surat Shabda Yoga (yoga of the celestial sound current), which is followed by a number of ancient spiritual traditions. Surat means “soul,” shabd means “word” and yoga means “union.” Word means the “Sound Current,” the “Audible Life Stream” or the “Essence of the Absolute Supreme Being.”

It is implied that through this practice of meditation, one can access the workings of this inner sound and actually travel spiritually into other levels or dimensions within the inner cosmos. It says this inner sound is the spiritual energy that actually drives your consciousness, provides the energy to hold your genetic structure in balance, and is supplied through an umbilical cord arrangement, resulting in a ringing or buzzing sound we all can actually hear inside.

[carriellbee]

Oh, thank you, Shabd_Mystic! I have never heard anyone else mention that they have heard this sound. I have heard it and it was the most beautiful thing I have ever heard. It is truly indescribably beautiful.

That's GREAT! Few people are ever so blessed before getting on the "right" path. That probably means that you are "destined" for more. It truly is an incredible, indescribable experience. There are so many incredible things "out there" that few are even aware of. As the Bible said, "seek and ye shall find."

Thank you for sharing that. That was great to read!

Thank you, Shabd_Mystic. :-)

[Shabd_Mystic]

Here is a little piece about the "sound current" written by Dr. Julian Johnson a renowned surgeon, and also a Baptist minister, who went on a mission to India many years ago to covert people to Christianity. While there he was exposed to "the sound current" and he himself was converted:

The Audible Life Stream (http://www.lightforcenetwork.com/shabda-executor/audible-life-stream-julian-johnson)

[carriellbee]

Here is a little piece about the "sound current" written by Dr. Julian Johnson a renowned surgeon, and also a Baptist minister, who went on a mission to India many years ago to covert people to Christianity. While there he was exposed to "the sound current" and he himself was converted:

The Audible Life Stream (http://www.lightforcenetwork.com/shabda-executor/audible-life-stream-julian-johnson)

Shabd_Mystic, is that your post? I really enjoyed it. Thank you.

[greybeard]

Here is a little piece about the "sound current" written by Dr. Julian Johnson a renowned surgeon, and also a Baptist minister, who went on a mission to India many years ago to covert people to Christianity. While there he was exposed to "the sound current" and he himself was converted:

The Audible Life Stream (http://www.lightforcenetwork.com/shabda-executor/audible-life-stream-julian-johnson)

Every time I meditate and some time it just arrives, I get a sound similar to birds singing.
Is that similar to the sound you mention Shabd-Mystic?

Thanks for your input.

Chris

[Shabd_Mystic]

Actually, at the first stages there are 10 different sounds heard. We are told that we should listen intently to whatever is heard. After time, as the concentration improves, it will change to a sound similar to a church bell, but that is only after we have made significant progress on the initial stage (which is the astral realm). For a better view I just copied this from another site:


1. In the Astral plane (the first plane) the sound: Ringing of a bell.

2. In the Causal plane (the second plane) the sound: Beating of drums.

3. In the Daswan dwar (the third plane) the sound: Lyre or lute, or the sound of mandall/harp

4. In the Banwar Ghupa (the fourth plane) the sound: Flute

5. In the Sat Lok or Sach Khand (5th plane) the sound: Bagpipe.

[Shabd_Mystic]

Here is a little piece about the "sound current" written by Dr. Julian Johnson a renowned surgeon, and also a Baptist minister, who went on a mission to India many years ago to covert people to Christianity. While there he was exposed to "the sound current" and he himself was converted:

The Audible Life Stream (http://www.lightforcenetwork.com/shabda-executor/audible-life-stream-julian-johnson)

Shabd_Mystic, is that your post? I really enjoyed it. Thank you.

Thank you very much! I'm so glad to know somebody enjoys hearing about it. I usually don't talk much about this because few people are "ready to hear" it, but to those who are it's unlike anything you've ever heard or experienced with any other path. It's definitely worth exploring. If you are ready for it everything will make perfect sense. If not then you can figure me for being nuts and enjoy some crazy ideas (no, it's not crazy at all but to people with strong opinions about some other path it might seem crazy).

[Izheheruvim]

Shabd_Mystic, i believe it's more important to become music yourself than to hear sounds. When you are a flute you don't hear sounds, you rather produce them, and it's not even you doing that but the Musician.

[greybeard]

One of the biggest challenges is the cleverness of ego.
The thought of spiritual superiority can be bought into==spiritual ego.
The, I know more or my path better = separation, but its oh so subtle.
In emptiness there is nothing to be known-- however a certain degree of spiritual knowledge and practice is required until its no longer needed.
No aspirant or level is better than another-- just an indication of progress.
One "person" can be devout and practice for years with some progress--another with none of that can all of a sudden be enlightened.
Ramana for example---possibly past life work coming to fruition.
We are not the doer---everything is ok.
Ramseh Balsekar, quoting the Bagavad gita, said.

"God wrote the play
God produced the play
God directed the play
God is the actor in the play
God is the audience in the play
The biggest obstacle being the thought that I am the doer".

The ego is just identification with the story of me.

A lot of paradoxes in spirituality.

Everyone is exactly where they are supposed to be---yet effort,devotion and dedication would seem to be necessary for the individual aspirant to realize there is no individual, there never was a separate individual.
There is only One.
The enlightened see everyone as enlightened yet realize they are in ignorance of this.

Chris

[carriellbee]

Here is a little piece about the "sound current" written by Dr. Julian Johnson a renowned surgeon, and also a Baptist minister, who went on a mission to India many years ago to covert people to Christianity. While there he was exposed to "the sound current" and he himself was converted:

The Audible Life Stream (http://www.lightforcenetwork.com/shabda-executor/audible-life-stream-julian-johnson)

Shabd_Mystic, is that your post? I really enjoyed it. Thank you.

Thank you very much! I'm so glad to know somebody enjoys hearing about it. I usually don't talk much about this because few people are "ready to hear" it, but to those who are it's unlike anything you've ever heard or experienced with any other path. It's definitely worth exploring. If you are ready for it everything will make perfect sense. If not then you can figure me for being nuts and enjoy some crazy ideas (no, it's not crazy at all but to people with strong opinions about some other path it might seem crazy).

I know exactly what you mean...

[Shabd_Mystic]

One of the biggest challenges is the cleverness of ego.
The thought of spiritual superiority can be bought into==spiritual ego.
The, I know more or my path better = separation, but its oh so subtle.
In emptiness there is nothing to be known-- however a certain degree of spiritual knowledge and practice is required until its no longer needed.
No aspirant or level is better than another-- just an indication of progress.
One "person" can be devout and practice for years with some progress--another with none of that can all of a sudden be enlightened.
Ramana for example---possibly past life work coming to fruition.
We are not the doer---everything is ok.
Ramseh Balsekar, quoting the Bagavad gita, said.

"God wrote the play
God produced the play
God directed the play
God is the actor in the play
God is the audience in the play
The biggest obstacle being the thought that I am the doer".

The ego is just identification with the story of me.

A lot of paradoxes in spirituality.

Everyone is exactly where they are supposed to be---yet effort,devotion and dedication would seem to be necessary for the individual aspirant to realize there is no individual, there never was a separate individual.
There is only One.
The enlightened see everyone as enlightened yet realize they are in ignorance of this.

Chris

That's interesting Chris because to say that all paths are equal is very much "spiritual ego," though you don't realize it.

How exactly do you know this to be true? You don't.

But you become convinced that it's true and your ego makes you believe that you somehow possess insight that others don't. If there was no "spiritual ego" you would want to find out if maybe this path did offer more than other paths but your spiritual ego tells you that you can somehow know this without knowing anything about the path. It is not "spiritual ego" when someone has spent 4 decades deeply studying this path as well as others and has then confirmed the truth of the teachings by his own practice. It is only spiritual ego when someone tries to determine the validity of a path without having fully studied various paths. Which is, I believe, what you have done here.

A more clear-cut example of "spiritual ego" could not be given. There's nothing wrong with that as you are fully entitled to your beliefs. I, too, felt the same way over 40 years ago when my mother became enthralled with it. But instead of saying "this is ridiculous" I began to read books about it looking for holes in the teachings. Looking for dogma and outrageous claims so I could "save" my mother.

What I found instead was the first spiritual path that made perfect sense. Most importantly, it was the first I'd found where I could prove everything was true while I was still alive (I hadn't been exposed to "enlightenment" back then). I'd been brought up with Christianity and was never comfortable with relying on "faith" to determine how I was to spend eternity. So being able to get proof before dying was very important to me.

As for enlightenment, that is so far beyond what anyone experiences in day to day living that I can understand why so many would think of it as the "ultimate" destination. It's hard to imagine there being anything more. Sant Mat also leads to enlightenment, only with Sant Mat enlightenment is just a signpost on the journey. Enlightenment happens fairly early in the journey. As a recent book said:

"Without the practice of meditation, our minds remain possessed by worldly passions and attachments, and our soul, deprived of its best potential ally--an enlightened mind--travels without support through the experience of being human in this most dangerous of planes."

~ From the book, "Living Meditation"
Another book on this path, Julian Johnson's "Path Of The Masters (http://www.scribd.com/doc/163671683/Path-of-the-Masters)," says:



"By the system of the Saints all development is attained by natural, slow growth and reconstruction. It is not a forced process; and for that reason it sometimes takes longer to see the light on this path than upon that of the yogi. But in the long run, this path of the Masters leads upward by a much more rapid climbing than can possibly be done on the yogis' path, and it leads to heights never dreamed of by the yogi.

But let no man think that because the Path of the Masters is slow and comparatively easy, that the final results will be less than those to be attained by the more difficult path of the yogis. The contrary is true.

The path of the Saints includes in its accomplishments all that any system has ever promised or attained, and then goes far above and beyond anything ever dreamed of by ancient yogis. It is well to repeat here for emphasis that a good yogi is one who has gained the first region on the Path of the Saints. This is the pure Astral. It lies above the "sun worlds" and the "moon worlds" of the yogis and the rishis. The Sahasra-dal-Kanwal center is sometimes called the "lightning world" by the Vedic writers. A real Saint or Master is one who has attained the fifth region, called Sach Khand, four distinct regions or universes beyond the highest achievements of the yogi."


Anyway, I certainly didn't come here to create a stir or to start an argument over which system is better or worse. I'm here because I have a tremendous affinity for Buddhism in general and I love reading about it. I just jumped in when I saw it said that the Holy Ghost might refer to kundalini and I got sidetracked. Sorry about that.

Also, if anyone is very interested in this Holy Ghost idea, a great book (more than 1,000 pages) that goes into great depth on this topic as well as other mystical teachings of Jesus, is John Davidson's, The Gospel of Jesus: In Search of His Original Teachings (http://www.johndavidson.org/GospelofJesusReviews.html). John is a scholar who also follows the path of Sant Mat and if you check out that page you might be surprised by some of the reactions by eminent Christians.

[Shabd_Mystic]

Shabd_Mystic, i believe it's more important to become music yourself than to hear sounds. When you are a flute you don't hear sounds, you rather produce them, and it's not even you doing that but the Musician.

I agree, but to become the music you first have to hear it. Otherwise the most you can ever become is "enlightened." Not bad but a far cry from what is possible.

[Shabd_Mystic]

Dear Chris, couple days ago i was given a book of Kabir's poetry that i am fascinated with.

One poem goes:


"Meditation and worship
are my earrings,
true concepts, my beggar's blanket..."

True concepts, or what we consider to be true concepts, or whether concepts can be true seem to be the stumbling block. You say we cannot put God or Kundalini into a concept. I say that we can describe them using concepts, or i should specify "true concepts". An implication of that is if someone is using untrue concepts or tries to avoid any concepts then he or she may go astray and be lost in maya. An implication of what you are saying is that any path will lead to God. We both are taking responsibility but yours seems to be much greater.

By the way, the "path" that Kabir followed was Sant Mat.

[Izheheruvim]

Shabd_Mystic, i believe it's more important to become music yourself than to hear sounds. When you are a flute you don't hear sounds, you rather produce them, and it's not even you doing that but the Musician.

I agree, but to become the music you first have to hear it. Otherwise the most you can ever become is "enlightened." Not bad but a far cry from what is possible.

Shabd_Mystic, when you are the music you can appreciate it when it comes outside :)

[greybeard]

Shabd-Mystic.
My typing one finger and dyslexic. so no long answer to your valid points.
Yes the spiritual ego starts the search.
I have never implied one path better than another---in fact path implies going some where.
As said some where--its an internal demolition of obstacles--your are already enlightened--when the clouds are removed the Sun is visible.
I have read the books of quite a few spiritual teachers--all contributed what I needed at that time-- Ive been in three ashrama's for short visits.
Most recommended Ramana's self enquiry--all said the Truth is not to found in books --they point.
All said meditate without technique--just be still.

I have studied--every day for years mostly enlightened sages but other paths too but not so deeply.
That is fact not ego speaking.
There was a lot of trial and error--a lot of blind alleys and they are important as --not this not this.
The Shidhis arrived I was advised to let them go-- I did as suggested.

The Truth is within you waiting to be uncovered it cant be found anywhere else.

Tims thread excellent.

Wishing you well
Namaste
Chris

Ps Adya Shanti calls it a pathless path-- He was Kundalini awakened.
I have read one of his books and watched quite a few of his videos.
He was the first I heard say--"There never was a person" etc.
His teaching first rate.

[Shabd_Mystic]

Shabd_Mystic, i believe it's more important to become music yourself than to hear sounds. When you are a flute you don't hear sounds, you rather produce them, and it's not even you doing that but the Musician.

I agree, but to become the music you first have to hear it. Otherwise the most you can ever become is "enlightened." Not bad but a far cry from what is possible.

Shabd_Mystic, when you are the music you can appreciate it when it comes outside :)

But if you don't know that even higher, more incredible music can be heard, you are going to believe you have already become the best thing possible.

[Shabd_Mystic]

Shabd-Mystic.
My typing one finger and dyslexic. so no long answer to your valid points.
Yes the spiritual ego starts the search.
I have never implied one path better than another---in fact path implies going some where.
As said some where--its an internal demolition of obstacles--your are already enlightened--when the clouds are removed the Sun is visible.
I have read the books of quite a few spiritual teachers--all contributed what I needed at that time-- Ive been in three ashrama's for short visits.
Most recommended Ramana's self enquiry--all said the Truth is not to found in books --they point.
All said meditate without technique--just be still.

I have studied--every day for years mostly enlightened sages but other paths too but not so deeply.
That is fact not ego speaking.
There was a lot of trial and error--a lot of blind alleys and they are important as --not this not this.
The Shidhis arrived I was advised to let them go-- I did as suggested.

The Truth is within you waiting to be uncovered it cant be found anywhere else.

Tims thread excellent.

Wishing you well
Namaste
Chris

Ps Adya Shanti calls it a pathless path-- He was Kundalini awakened.
I have read one of his books and watched quite a few of his videos.
He was the first I heard say--"There never was a person" etc.
His teaching first rate.

Chris, as long as you are comfortable with what you believe, who am I to question it? I know from experience that it is rare to find anyone who follows any path who are willing to challenge their beliefs. That is how the human mind works and it does that intentionally. Only those who are destined to hear will hear. There is nothing I could ever do to get someone to look at something else.

The ego cannot even allow the possibility that they could be wrong. I have several friends and relatives who are Christians and are convinced that Christianity is the best possible path. Muslims feel the same way. Atheists do to. That's why it's best to not discuss such topics. The human ego equates its beliefs with its own validity as a human being. And to the ego, being "right" about spiritual topics is more important than finding the best possible spiritual path. And that's okay. We'll just have to have different ideas about spirituality.

[Shabd_Mystic]

I just saw this and thought it was appropriate to post:



"We rarely hear the inward music,
but we’re all dancing to it nevertheless."

~ Rumi

[greybeard]

Dear Shabd-Mystic with respect--you dont know me--you have no idea what I believe or believed in the past.
As said there has been a process of one belief/teaching being surpassed by another when I was ready to hear--so I was never stuck on one path or one teacher.
I have said often that all beliefs concepts etc without exception must go--because they are all points of identification of the me.
Of course there is still an ego but im aware of it.
You pointed out on Tims thread how much you enjoyed Adya-- Most of what I have posted on this thread has been influenced by his pathless path teaching.

I like Rumi too
! am a hole in the flute that the Christ breath moves through listen to the music


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8u2SsFRpQc


Namaste
Chris

[Shabd_Mystic]

Dear Shabd-Mystic with respect--you dont know me--you have no idea what I believe or believed in the past.


Just going by your words Chris.

"The thought of spiritual superiority can be bought into==spiritual ego. The, I know more or my path better = separation, but its oh so subtle."

Or did I misunderstand what you meant? I've had several strokes so that wouldn't surprise me. Were you not saying that believing one path is better than another to be coming from "spiritual ego?"

[Shabd_Mystic]

Here is something specifically about the thread topic:


In his enlightening book Yoga and the Bible (1963), Joseph Leeming quotes the first verse of the
Gospel according to St. John: ‘In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the
Word was God’. and comments: “These moving and meaningful statements made by St. John in
describing the Divine Word of God are among the best known in the entire New Testament. But
it is safe to say that their true meaning is one of the least known of all facts in the entire teachings
of the Bible....The Word of God is, and always has been the most important factor in the teaching
of the Masters—of the teachings of Jesus as well as of the Masters of today. It is mentioned under
different names in the scriptures of all the great world religions, though its meaning has been
known to but few of the followers of these religions. The Hindu scriptures call it Anahat Shabd,
or the Unstruck Music, and also Akash Bani, the Celestial Voice. Mohammedans call it Kalma, or
Word, and Kalam-i-Ilahi, or Voice of God. Zoroaster speaks of it as Sraosha, meaning ‘the Sound
from the Sky.’ The early Greek philosophers who had learned the spiritual secrets of India, refer
to it as the Logos, while some called it the music of the spheres. Socrates speaks of it as an inner
sound that transported him to realms of transcendent and divine beauty. The Masters of today
call it Nam, meaning Name or Word (of God); and also Shabd, which means Sound, or more
particularly, spiritual Sound. In the English language the Word is called the Sound Current or the
Audible Life Stream....

“The Audible Life Stream is, as the Masters have pointed out, God’s ‘unspoken language’, and
His ‘unwritten Word’. The term Sound Current is new to most western readers, and because of
this fact, its identity with familiar terms used in the Bible must be made abundantly clear. The
Sound Current is the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost of the Bible and is the same thing as ‘the Word’
spoken of by St. John....The Holy Trinity of the Church, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, is
the Trinity of the Supreme Father, the living Master, and the Sound Current....Thus, to become
‘filled with the Holy Spirit’ is to hear and participate in the Audible Life Stream, to become
absorbed in it and become one with it or one with God....There is an inspiring concept associated
with the fact that the Master is one with the Supreme. This is that every man is a potential Saint,
and is therefore potentially identical with God. He needs only development and realization. To
become one with the Father is the supreme goal of all human evolution, and the sole object of our
being here on earth is that we may grow to the spiritual stature of the Masters, who are the true
supermen. ‘Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect.’ Ma$hew
5:48. Men only require a living Master to help them to develop and reach this goal. They need but
the light of Mastership in another man to kindle the light within themselves.

Joseph Leeming continues: “The great Masters of all ages have all taught the same doctrine, the
identical method of freeing the soul from the fetters of mind and matter and of entering the
kingdom of heaven while still living on earth in the physical body. The Way that was taught by
Jesus to his closest disciples is the Way that is taught today by the perfect living Masters. The
Way is called here the path of the Masters or, because it is a scientific method of achieving
continuous and certain spiritual progress and successively higher states of consciousness, it is
called the spiritual science of the Masters. The spiritual science or yoga of the Masters, the
doctrine of Him who sends the Masters to this world, is the supreme science of all sciences, for it
deals with the ultimate truths of man’s nature and destiny, and the ultimate purpose of all
human life. It teaches the student, by a method of guided scientific experimentation, how to
make direct and permanent contact with his Creator. It is a science based on laws which, though
they have always existed, are not generally known. ...

The Light and Sound teachings were taught by Pythagoras, Plato, Socrates, Lao Tse, Jesus
Christ, the Sufi sages, Rumi and Hafiz, the Indian saints Kabir and Nanak, and more recently the
19th and 20th century Light and Sound Masters in India, including Sawan Singh and Charan
Singh.”That is a very small portion of the entire article. You can read the rest here:
Light and Sound Teachings and the true Gospel of Jesus (http://www.sacredconnections.co.uk/wave.html)

[Jake]

I feel that I have Christ in my heart. I know that I am consciousness... I can feel when 'the spirit' moves me. I have been lost in eternity... I have been laid waste, and helpless during intense episodes of energetic discharge!! I have been taken!!! I can feel history repeating itself, even now!! I have been turned away by churches!! I have been persecuted for my experiences, not my beliefs. I think that it is safe to say that no matter what 'moves' inside of you,, no matter what brings your experience to fruition,,, there is a battle for the sovereignty of souls... And it is going to take courage. The courage of each of ours convictions. The separation from self/ego,, is only separation,,, imho... To embrace the courage of our convictions,, requires a sovereignty,,,, perhaps even, an ego! I have experienced the perfect peace that goes with the transcendence from soul/ego,, to utter release and surrender. Yet here I am... The Kundalini rises. No one can control it. The spirit moves,,, let it!!!! Your soul cries for acceptance,,,, ACCEPT IT!!! There is no one watching but yourself,,, (in the big picture)

Last night I had an experience that I will not bother trying to put into words. We are all in this together. I love you all...

Jake.

[greybeard]

Dear Shabd-Mystic with respect--you dont know me--you have no idea what I believe or believed in the past.


Just going by your words Chris.

"The thought of spiritual superiority can be bought into==spiritual ego. The, I know more or my path better = separation, but its oh so subtle."

Or did I misunderstand what you meant? I've had several strokes so that wouldn't surprise me. Were you not saying that believing one path is better than another to be coming from "spiritual ego?"

The inference I intended is the thought that there is only one path or yes that this or that path is better is spiritual ego.
The person thinking that way is being judgemental which is a function of the ego.
How can one possibly know that one path is better or superior to another?
Again we could spend for ever defining ego.
One path might be more appropriate for an individual than an other.
I mentioned it because I fell into that trap ( thinking that my path was fastest, best) several times, though not to the degree that I wanted to convert anyone to my belief
Krishna said "All are mine, even those who run in the wrong direction"
I am happy for anyone to share what they have found to work for them.
That's how I gain new insight.

A friend put a video of Adyashanti on the thread regarding transcending ego several years back and I enjoyed that, so as said I got one of his books and watched videos.
On that thread there are teachings of many spiritual sages and some relevant scientific ones too-- a very broad spread of posts.

I hope I am clearer in my rambling.
Namaste
Chris

[Sebastion]

Ahh Jake, you speak my mind very well! Your statements regarding sovereignty is spot on and the courage it takes is absolute...and it's all worth it in the end if one can speak of the end. For those who know, no explanation is necessary, for those who don't, no explanation will suffice...




I feel that I have Christ in my heart. I know that I am consciousness... I can feel when 'the spirit' moves me. I have been lost in eternity... I have been laid waste, and helpless during intense episodes of energetic discharge!! I have been taken!!! I can feel history repeating itself, even now!! I have been turned away by churches!! I have been persecuted for my experiences, not my beliefs. I think that it is safe to say that no matter what 'moves' inside of you,, no matter what brings your experience to fruition,,, there is a battle for the sovereignty of souls... And it is going to take courage. The courage of each of ours convictions. The separation from self/ego,, is only separation,,, imho... To embrace the courage of our convictions,, requires a sovereignty,,,, perhaps even, an ego! I have experienced the perfect peace that goes with the transcendence from soul/ego,, to utter release and surrender. Yet here I am... The Kundalini rises. No one can control it. The spirit moves,,, let it!!!! Your soul cries for acceptance,,,, ACCEPT IT!!! There is no one watching but yourself,,, (in the big picture)

Last night I had an experience that I will not bother trying to put into words. We are all in this together. I love you all...

Jake.

[Shabd_Mystic]

The inference I intended is the thought that there is only one path or yes that this or that path is better is spiritual ego.
The person thinking that way is being judgemental which is a function of the ego.
How can one possibly know that one path is better or superior to another?

Okay, I understand where you're coming from. I guess I need to at least "try" to explain my perspective.

It would be impossible to know if a particular path is better if you didn't know everything about the various paths. The most important thing is not the paths themselves but the destination. Countless paths can get you to the same destination, but if there was one path that got you further, to a place the other paths didn't even know existed, then that would be a superior path.

I don't want to delve into all that because anyone who is interested can do a little research. The rest can just believe that enlightenment is the highest possible "attainment" if they'd like. It's not my place to introduce ideas that people aren't comfortable with.

[greybeard]

The inference I intended is the thought that there is only one path or yes that this or that path is better is spiritual ego.
The person thinking that way is being judgemental which is a function of the ego.
How can one possibly know that one path is better or superior to another?

Okay, I understand where you're coming from. I guess I need to at least "try" to explain my perspective.

It would be impossible to know if a particular path is better if you didn't know everything about the various paths. The most important thing is not the paths themselves but the destination. Countless paths can get you to the same destination, but if there was one path that got you further, to a place the other paths didn't even know existed, then that would be a superior path.

I don't want to delve into all that because anyone who is interested can do a little research. The rest can just believe that enlightenment is the highest possible "attainment" if they'd like. It's not my place to introduce ideas that people aren't comfortable with.

Hi Shabd-Mystic
I agree that such a path could be considered better.
However the aspirant on any path is not superior according to my understanding.
The soul being perfect can not be improved.
Enlightenment here on this heavy density plane is considered kindergarten from a higher perspective.

I like science too--this thread fits my perspective,

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66490-The-Illusion-Of-Matter-Our-Physical-Reality-Isn-t-Really-Physical-At-All

Have a Happy Christmas.
Namaste
Chris

[Shabd_Mystic]

The inference I intended is the thought that there is only one path or yes that this or that path is better is spiritual ego.
The person thinking that way is being judgemental which is a function of the ego.
How can one possibly know that one path is better or superior to another?

Okay, I understand where you're coming from. I guess I need to at least "try" to explain my perspective.

It would be impossible to know if a particular path is better if you didn't know everything about the various paths. The most important thing is not the paths themselves but the destination. Countless paths can get you to the same destination, but if there was one path that got you further, to a place the other paths didn't even know existed, then that would be a superior path.

I don't want to delve into all that because anyone who is interested can do a little research. The rest can just believe that enlightenment is the highest possible "attainment" if they'd like. It's not my place to introduce ideas that people aren't comfortable with.

Hi Shabd-Mystic
I agree that such a path could be considered better.
However the aspirant on any path is not superior according to my understanding.
The soul being perfect can not be improved.
Enlightenment here on this heavy density plane is considered kindergarten from a higher perspective.

I like science too--this thread fits my perspective,

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66490-The-Illusion-Of-Matter-Our-Physical-Reality-Isn-t-Really-Physical-At-All

Have a Happy Christmas.
Namaste
Chris

I fully agree! No aspirant is better or more worthy than any other and that doesn't matter what paths they are on. The hardest thing for me to believe has been that no aspirant is "less" worthy either because I feel that way about myself. But I'm trying hard to accept that fact.

Thanks for the link. I love science and will enjoy reading that!

[Falcor]

I experienced this kundalini energy back in 2004.....it is an intense cosmic energy and yes it is what is referred to as the holy spirit. However there is more to kundalini than even the new agers want to see......from my personal experience kundalini is related to the planet saturn and there are implications there that can be even more disturbing........

Just for the record, and I'm no endoser of astrological principles, but my kundalini experience in '99 coincided with my Saturn return (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_return). Well technically I was 27 years and 11 months old when it happened but that's close enough to raise an eyebrow in my book.


wow amazing. my kundalini awakening experience happened when i was 27 only a few weeks before my 28th bday!!! and other things you wrote too, like the saturn return, someone was just speaking to me about that. very interesting :) much blessings

[Falcor]

i really resonate with what is written in the law of one about the energy centers and kundalini. i can relate my experience in what is described about the nature of the energy field


"The most important concept to grasp about the energy field is that the lower or negative pole will draw the universal energy into itself from the cosmos. Therefrom it will move upward to be met and reacted to by the positive spiraling energy moving downward from within. The measure of an entity’s level of ray (chakra or energy center) activity is the locus wherein the south pole outer energy has been met by the inner spiraling positive energy.

As an entity grows more polarized this locus will move upwards. This phenomenon has been called by your peoples the kundalini. However, it may better be thought of as the meeting place of cosmic and inner, shall we say, vibratory understanding.

the Creator lies within. In the north pole the crown is already upon the head and the entity is potentially a god. This energy is brought into being by the humble and trusting acceptance of this energy through meditation and contemplation of the self and of the Creator. Where these energies meet is where the serpent will have achieved its height. When this uncoiled energy approaches universal love and radiant being the entity is in a state whereby the harvestability of the entity comes nigh."

i have only had one kundalini experience that i believe i had 'uncoiled' energy running through me. i was shaking a lot. my organs, keagle and rectum all fluttered and pulsed. after a good 10-20 minutes of the energy rising, i was able to experience both 'poles' of energy within myself. my crown opened and the energies met within my heart space. it totally blew my illusion away while i experienced the energy.

im no science guy, but all matter exists because of the dynamic tension within the magnetic field, right?. im starting to wonder if kundalini is the conscious force behind attraction, simply by its very nature. in my own subjective experience, it seems like my ability to attract what is needed - whether it be making new friends, or going through a tough situation to spark spiritual growth, funds to get by, - all this attractive power seems to have become more powerful and more obvious to me. any thoughts?

[Ikarusion]

At this time, the brow fuses with the crown the one in the nose bridge, and
this new chakra structure is felt as a heavy, fleshy flap hanging down over
ones brow and bridge of nose.

not really hanging, but reminds me of:

http://www.crystalinks.com/uraeustut2.jpg

im still reading through the topic and trying to learn more on about the kundalini.
in different places, ive read about the negative effect that the spilling of semen does apparently have, when trying to raise the kundalini.
http://www.vopus.org/hi/gnosis/alchemy/awakening-of-kundalini.html
http://sensualblissvoyager.wordpress.com/tag/kundalini-yoga/

does this have to do with a kind of big energetic release near the base chakra?
what is better for raising the kundalini: abstinence or trying to force the sexual energy back in, maybe even up the spine while retaining semen on climax?

much love
ika

[greybeard]

Hi Ika
I would not be inclined to force anything.
You will most likely be led to what is best for you.
Certainly Tantric, which is another interesting topic, recommends semen retention and on the point of ejaculation refraining from that and drawing the energy produced up the spine.

Best wishes
Chris

[Ikarusion]

thanks chris.

so this is actually a practiced tantric technique? great. just gained more interest on tantra. :)
anyone ever do this? im really interested in personal feedback. what is the explanation/reason to practice this in tantra?

ill try and find the answers for my questions online, but would appreciate your input.

take care all,
ika

[greybeard]

thanks chris.

so this is actually a practiced tantric technique? great. just gained more interest on tantra. :)
anyone ever do this? im really interested in personal feedback. what is the explanation/reason to practice this in tantra?

ill try and find the answers for my questions online, but would appreciate your input.

take care all,
ika

Everything is energy in movement.
The word Yoga means union.
So as far as I can tell Hatha Yoga and some others are practised to get the spine supple and in good condition so that the energy can flow up the spine.
Look up the micro cosmic orbit (google)
Tantric can move the the energy in a circle up the male spine and down the female spine or the other way round.
The breath is used to help focus and energy flows where mind goes.
Then it is a silent meditation--male and female linked/joined.
Its never a question of forcing, but becoming more and more aware of the natural movement of energy in the body.
No end result is looked for.

The mantra Om Namashivia is helpful to give thanks/surrender to Kundalini.

I would see Kundalini as separate from Tantra but there is probably a relationship.

I dont want to go into detail but my own personal experience validated by the recipient, is that love making can happen when a couple are separated by hundreds of miles and it is very real.
Im not talking about out of body-- I was fully conscious and aware in my own bed.
Anyway saying no more.

Chris

[Shabd_Mystic]

For anyone who might be interested:

http://kirpalsingh.org/Booklets/Music_of_the_Spheres.pdf (http://kirpalsingh.org/Booklets/Music_of_the_Spheres.pdf)

[Shabd_Mystic]

Certainly Tantric, which is another interesting topic, recommends semen retention and on the point of ejaculation refraining from that and drawing the energy produced up the spine.
Chris

And there are several paths that recommend complete celibacy (often called brahmacharya (http://yoga108.org/pages/show/96)) but the path I follow doesn't recommend that you deny urges because that usually leads to problems. The good thing is, if the path is legit celibacy will happen naturally because you will lose any desire once you have made fair progress "inside." And there is no denial needed then because if there is no desire then there is nothing to deny.

[Ikarusion]

Anyway saying no more.
why not?

haha, but really thank you chris.
always glad to learn. :)

[greybeard]

Im not advocating this ---its just more information

Chris

http://www.transients.info/2013/12/a-program-for-raising-your-kundalini.html#more

[teknix]

I really like this thread because I have often wondered if "accepting jesus into your heart" is the same or very similar to metta and the heart chakra. All three of them seem to be largely about compassion, forgiveness and love for everyone. I wonder if ones interpretation isn't largely dependent upon the path they took and how that path described the experience before the experience happened. I might be inclined to think that the experience justified the previous explanation if I were to consider only one path as the ultimate truth. I personally like to think that many paths are pointing at the same truths. ;)

[teknix]

Hi Ika
I would not be inclined to force anything.
You will most likely be led to what is best for you.
Certainly Tantric, which is another interesting topic, recommends semen retention and on the point of ejaculation refraining from that and drawing the energy produced up the spine.

Best wishes
Chris

Hi Greybeard!

I like your posts and I'm delighted to see another internal alchemist!

[greybeard]

I really like this thread because I have often wondered if "accepting jesus into your heart" is the same or very similar to metta and the heart chakra. All three of them seem to be largely about compassion, forgiveness and love for everyone. I wonder if ones interpretation isn't largely dependent upon the path they took and how that path described the experience before the experience happened. I might be inclined to think that the experience justified the previous explanation if I were to consider only one path as the ultimate truth. I personally like to think that many paths are pointing at the same truths. ;)

Hi tenix
Yes there are probably quite a few paths that lead to the ultimate.
I prefer the expression, pathless path as its not external to Self.
Basically what ever works for you.

Best wishes
Chris

[Ikarusion]

Certainly Tantric, which is another interesting topic, recommends semen retention and on the point of ejaculation refraining from that and drawing the energy produced up the spine.

Best wishes
Chris

hey all,
i tried to ankh every now and then for the past 2 weeks again.
http://toliveconsciously.com/blog/index.php/2011/02/drunvalos-egyptian-ankhing-orgasm-intructions/

i still dont seem to get the timing right.
shortly before climax i focus up the spine and to the heartchakra, but often i already start ejaculating once im at this point.
this sorta disturbs focus and most of the time my breathing isnt as described and the whole process starts to feel like a house of cards that is collapsing.

should i just go slower? at what point in the process should i be climaxing exactly? is it ok to ejaculate when ankhing?
i guess i do loose life energy when ejaculating, but it is still very much what i associate with climaxing, which often seems to disturb actual work or cultivation of sexual energy.

in short: id appreciate some pointers if possible. :)

[greybeard]

The only suggestion is just before climax stop doing what you are doing, a short while after start again, but stop each time pre climax sensed.
Obviously you get to sense accurately the moment ejaculation is about to happen with practice, that's after quite a few accidents--smiling.
When you now have the hang of it, the moment you sense your just about to ejaculate-- tense your buttocks and strongly, using breath, draw the energy up the spine. To be clear you are not drawing semen up the spine--you have halted ejaculation but the energy does get pulled up the spine.
Hope that helps.

Chris

[Ikarusion]

it does. thanks again.
i will practice stopping stimulation pre climax. once my timing is better ill start to, if i understood you right, tense up the pelvic floor muscles, draw focus/energy up to heart.. or did you mean all the way to the crown and release the energy through it?

when ankhing, where would be the moment of climax or ejaculation? when the energy reenters the heart chakra?

[greybeard]

Yes, tense up pelvic floor muscles. draw energy up spine, it will go where its supposed to by itself. by momentum. once you get it moving up spine.
Dont try over hard.
Dont expect any specific results, but it will improve your health.

Best wishes

Chris

[TruthSeekah]

Heres the new audio file for the podcast
3vaNRUeQbi8

[Ikarusion]

A9vP-GwWBH8

all in all agreeable, i think.

[Izheheruvim]

Coming back after a pause, Namaste to old chaps :)

Did a new writing including insights received in this forum. Hope you'll enjoy the read:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ln9fse7oq9n6lhl/A%20Book%20of%20Concern.pdf?dl=0

[seah]

super interesting opinions and information going on in this old thread. Some thoughts,

1. I miss Finefeather's sensible point of view :) so well displayed here.

2. Glorious Poetry's thoughts on Kundalini and Saturn connection are fresh and intriguing to me and I will pursue this info. Thank you.

3. Jake's experience with Kundalini and for a second becoming a serpent also fascinating. Thank you for sharing. I wonder if he has come to any new insights on the subject. I have followed with interest, the spiritual growth of a young woman online who had a full blown kundalini awakening, unfortunately through the years she has had nothing good come of it. It appears she is now fully 'possessed' by entities who wish to use her to further their agendas.

[Uncle Mikey]

Lol at some of the responses in this thread.

I, I , I... Me, Me, Me.

Look...

If anyone here has Truly experienced Kundalini, the last thing in the world they would be doing is bragging about it... especially on a forum.

In addition, they would be warning others instead of encouraging.

This is how one knows who is telling the Truth or not.

Those of you that have experienced becoming a walking 'Weapon of Mass Destruction' know what I'm talking about.

The Government doesn't play games when it comes to this.

Good luck.

[bearcow]

There is a lot of misconception regarding Kundalini. Most of the teachers in the west who claim to be kundalini instructors are anything but and are not qualified to teach as they have no real understanding.

One basic fact regarding kundalini, if you can raise it, and maintain its flow properly, you will develop siddhis and ultimately become a living buddha.

It however is not the indian term analogous with the holy spirit. The Indian term loosely referring to the same concept is atma or atman.

[bearcow]

The only suggestion is just before climax stop doing what you are doing, a short while after start again, but stop each time pre climax sensed.
Obviously you get to sense accurately the moment ejaculation is about to happen with practice, that's after quite a few accidents--smiling.
When you now have the hang of it, the moment you sense your just about to ejaculate-- tense your buttocks and strongly, using breath, draw the energy up the spine. To be clear you are not drawing semen up the spine--you have halted ejaculation but the energy does get pulled up the spine.
Hope that helps.




Chris

I cannot emphasize strongly enough how dangerous a practice this is. It has very little short term benefit and will most likely cause health problems in the long term.

I have seen many people who practice Mantak Chia's inner orgasm methods only to find their way to legitimate masters such as john chang and then find out that they have done considerable damage to their bodies.

like the dutch boy who put his finger in the dike the water (chi) does not reverse its flow. If the water (chi) cannot go the way of least resistance out the hui yin point or root chakra, it will find the point of weakness in the dike (energy body) and carve a route for itself unnaturally.

[greybeard]

I honestly do not think that you can make Kundalini awakening happen.
You might be able to hope for it, prepare for it.
The awakening in this case was spontaneous, on going, not complete.
The energy is still making progress up the spine.
To be clear Kundalini awakening is not enlightenment it is K energy starting to move from it resting place.
On completion of this movement/journey--clearing the obstacles as it does--then the energy in the heart cave moves up and enlightenment/self realisation occurs. Shakti and Shiva are in complete control of this.

I respectfully point to the information in this earlier post.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62016-The-Kundalini-Is-The-Holy-Spirit--What-Your-Church-Doesn-t-Want-You-To-Know&p=711514&viewfull=1#post711514

Chris

[greybeard]

The only suggestion is just before climax stop doing what you are doing, a short while after start again, but stop each time pre climax sensed.
Obviously you get to sense accurately the moment ejaculation is about to happen with practice, that's after quite a few accidents--smiling.
When you now have the hang of it, the moment you sense your just about to ejaculate-- tense your buttocks and strongly, using breath, draw the energy up the spine. To be clear you are not drawing semen up the spine--you have halted ejaculation but the energy does get pulled up the spine.
Hope that helps.




Chris

I cannot emphasize strongly enough how dangerous a practice this is. It has very little short term benefit and will most likely cause health problems in the long term.

I have seen many people who practice Mantak Chia's inner orgasm methods only to find their way to legitimate masters such as john chang and then find out that they have done considerable damage to their bodies.

like the dutch boy who put his finger in the dike the water (chi) does not reverse its flow. If the water (chi) cannot go the way of least resistance out the hui yin point or root chakra, it will find the point of weakness in the dike (energy body) and carve a route for itself unnaturally.

I can not honestly say that the practice is safe or unsafe but I did watch a documentary where several old people who used this method were extremely fit still sexually active and one was riding a bicycle---Im talking about oriental people in their 80s.
It was many years ago that I watched this so I dont have a link.

Experts disagree.

I would also point out that when a man has a vasectomy the active part/baby making part of the semen remains in the male body.
Where it goes I do not know--but it must be disposed of somehow.

Chris

[bearcow]

I would also point out that when a man has a vasectomy the active part/baby making part of the semen remains in the male body.
Where it goes I do not know--but it must be disposed of somehow.


It many cases it goes in the bladder, it either goes out in the urine or becomes too dense and putrifies, leading to blockages in the flow of energy.

[cannawizard]

Lol at some of the responses in this thread.

I, I , I... Me, Me, Me.

Look...

If anyone here has Truly experienced Kundalini, the last thing in the world they would be doing is bragging about it... especially on a forum.

In addition, they would be warning others instead of encouraging.

This is how one knows who is telling the Truth or not.

Those of you that have experienced becoming a walking 'Weapon of Mass Destruction' know what I'm talking about.

The Government doesn't play games when it comes to this.

Good luck.

kundalini will melt the false self, "i" " me" (ego) will become irrelevant for you will see/feel/know--- becoming one with eternity/all-- self ceases to exist..

--hope you are well where ever you have moved on to mikey~

:sun: