Is Gunung Padang the oldest pyramid on the planet ?

[Atlas]

Frank Joseph (http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/articles/mankinds-cradle-of-civilisation-found-in-java): "The first archaeological survey of Gunung Padang appears in a “Report, the Department of Antiquities” (Rapporten van de Oudheidkundige Dienst) for Holland’s colonial office in 1914. Thirty-three years later, a Canberra team from the Australian National University’s Centre for Archaeological Research determined that Gunung Padang was far older than previously imagined.

Not until February 2012, however, was a State-sponsored evaluation of the site carried out, when thorough radiocarbon testing revealed it was built and first occupied about 4,800 years ago. As the researchers were carrying out their investigations, they noticed traces on Mount Padang’s surface of underground structures.

The President of Indonesia himself, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, lavished the archaeologists with costly GSSI and Multi-Channel SuperSting R-8 ground-penetrating radar units, plus GEM-Ovenhausser geo-magnetometers. These state-of-the-art instruments readily found and accurately confirmed the existence of large and small chambers, walls, gates and staircases buried deep beneath the often-visited, open-air ruins."

http://eshaputra.blogdetik.com/files/2013/03/eac28567dba7d0d46d639303663b2f68_gunung-padang.jpg

"Team leader and geologist, Dr. Danny Hilman Natawidjaja and his twenty colleagues carefully dredged up organic materials, which were sent for laboratory testing in the United States.

The Jakarta Post announced on 5 November: "A recent analysis of carbon-dating by the Miami-based Beta Analytic Lab has apparently validated findings by a government-sanctioned team that a man-made structure lies buried under Mount Padang in Cianjur, West Java. The lab used samples of sand, soil and charcoal found at a depth of between three and twelve metres beneath the mountain’s surface. Based on geo-electric, geo-radar and geo-magnetic [surveys], a large chamber is buried at least up to fifteen metres from the surface… Carbon-dating test results from the Miami lab show that the structure could date back to 14,000 B.C., or beyond."

The significance of this discovery cannot be over-stated, because it crosses the Ice Age event horizon."


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44908464/jakarta.pdf
Download PDF (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44908464/jakarta.pdf)
------------------------------

Michael Bachelard (http://www.theage.com.au/world/digging-for-the-truth-at-controversial-megalithic-site-20130726-2qphb.html): "Hilman, who holds a PhD from the California Institute of Technology and senior geologist at Indonesia's Centre for Geotechnical Research, believes that most of this 100 metre hill is actually man-made, built up on three stages over the millenniums by three different cultures. If he's right, then buried beneath the piles of ancient stone is by far the oldest pyramid on the planet.

Vulcanologist Sutikno Bronto, says Gunung Padang is simply the neck of a nearby volcano, not an ancient pyramid. "Danny Hilman is not a vulcanologist. I am," he says. As for the carbon-dated cement between the stones, on which Hilman relies for his claims about the age of the site, Sutikno believes it is simply the byproduct of a natural weathering process, ''not man-made''.

Other sceptic archaeologist asks: ''In the Pawon cave in Padalarang [about 45 kilometres from Gunung Padang], we found some human bones and tools made of bones about 9500 years ago, or about 7000 BCE. So, if at 7000 BCE our technology was only producing tools of bones, how can people from 20,000 BCE obtain the technology to build a pyramid?''

Pw7sJ6PFHa8------------------------------

Rick MG (http://www.dailygrail.com/Sacred-Sites/2013/7/Indonesian-Megalithic-Site-Could-Be-More-9000-Years-Old-And-Part-Ancient-Pyramid): "Several of Gunung Padang's standing stones have astronomical alignments, reinforced by indigenous names for the site. Locals refer to the ruins as Sundapura, the "Shrine of the Sun", while the hill itself is called Parahyang Padang, "Where the Sun Ancestors Dwell".

http://www.dailygrail.com/sites/dailygrail.com/files/storyimages/gunung_padang_illustration.jpg

"Its andesite blocks and columns resonate with a bell-like tone when struck with another hard object. They belong to a rare, geological occurrence known as lithophony, the property of some rocks to emit musical sounds under percussive stress."

r8KPkvRVZTQ
"Graham Hancock is preparing to visit the site soon, as part of research for his follow-up to Fingerprints of the Gods."

http://s3.amazonaws.com/readers/2011/03/02/105778gunungsadahuripgarutcreditturanggaseta_1.jpg
Mount Sadahurip – Garut, Indonesia

[ghostrider]

Ptaah says the Giza pyramid in Egypt was built over 73,357 years ago, built in two time periods one being 35,650 ( from 1956) ago ... they were built by the direction of extra-terrestrials and 200,000 slaves that took many decades ... only of few still had their powers of telekinesis ... they were built for protection against castastrophe from a wayward destroyer comet that came around about every 575.5 years , the plejaren have since re-directed it's path so it no longer threatens earth ... from contact 256 may 13 th 1996...

[Cidersomerset]

Thanks buares another site pushing back the boundries of mainstream history.

[indigopete]

Very interesting. Thanks for posting buares.

[sirdipswitch]

Great find, buares!!

In explorring this material, have you found anyone to mention if those two mountains, in the background, have been checked to see if they are also pyramids? Looks alot like three more linning up like the three at Giza. hmm.

And, is the thickness of dirt covering these, more or less, than the thickness of dirt covering the pyramids in China? Also, how would they compare to those in Bosnia?

Seems to me, that "someone", a bit smarter than us, and likes to build pyramids, has been visiting here, for a "very" long time. Wonder if they'll stop by again. ccc. (chuckle chuckle chuckle)

[WhiteFeather]

"Graham Hancock is preparing to visit the site soon, as part of research for his follow-up to Fingerprints of the Gods." Thanks for that Buares, I didn't know he was doing a follow up. Grahams work is unparalleled in the field of Alternative Archeology. I Cant wait for the sequel to his Fingerprints of The Gods book. Great thread Buares.

Asquali

;)

[Atlas]

"Graham Hancock is preparing to visit the site soon, as part of research for his follow-up to Fingerprints of the Gods." Thanks for that Buares, I didn't know he was doing a follow up. Grahams work is unparalleled in the field of Alternative Archeology. I Cant wait for the sequel to his Fingerprints of The Gods book. Great thread Buares.

Asquali

;)

Thanks WhiteFeather, on Graham Hancock's forum (http://www.grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=326517&t=326468), carolb wrote:

"from Graham's Facebook timeline:

Quote:

For those who missed my post on this last week, a
> radical re-dating has been proposed for Gunung Padang, an eerie
> megalithic site in West Java, Indonesia. The site, which Santha
> and I are now arranging to visit, was originally discovered in
> 1914, and has long been typecast by the mainstream as less than
> 5,000 years old -- a date that does not challenge the
> conventional paradigm. However, new research on the site by
> Dany Hilman, senior Geologist at Indonesia's Centre for
> Geotechnical Research, completely overturns this orthodox view.
> "It's older than 9,000 years," says Hilman "and could be up to
> 20,000". Naturally the mainstream is already fighting back and
> seeking to discredit Hilman and his team, but we have been
> seeing these sort of tactics since my friends John Anthony West
> and geologist Robert Schoch first questioned the orthodox
> dating of the Great Sphinx of Giza back in 1992. Little by
> little the evidence that discredits the mainstream timeline is
> piling up -- first the Sphinx, then the 12,000 year old
> megalithic site of Gobekli Tepe which I have already written
> about extensively here (e.g. goo.gl/iX4CMf) and spoken
> of in talks and interviews for the last couple of years, now
> Gunung Padang and all of this in context of a gigantic global
> cataclysm linked to a horrendous cometary bombardment of the
> earth between 13,000 and 12,000 years ago that honest
> scientists can no longer seriously deny. The policemen of the
> intellect who dominate mainstream archaeology and history may
> not be able to maintain their stranglehold on the past for very
> much longer."
http://www.grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=326517&t=326468

I'm not sure where RickMG (http://www.dailygrail.com/Sacred-Sites/2013/7/Indonesian-Megalithic-Site-Could-Be-More-9000-Years-Old-And-Part-Ancient-Pyramid) found the "as part of research for his follow-up to Fingerprints of the Gods" info, thanks for pointing this out.

[DNA]

-they were built for protection against castastrophe from a wayward destroyer comet that came around about every 575.5 years , the plejaren have since re-directed it's path so it no longer threatens earth ... from contact 256 may 13 th 1996...

So do you think this wayward destroyer planet or Nibiru is coming back around?
Folks have been rather worried lately.
I'm of the opinion that this is not the case. I believe Billy Meier and I don't think there is anything to worry about as far as this is concerned.

[Atlas]

-they were built for protection against castastrophe from a wayward destroyer comet that came around about every 575.5 years , the plejaren have since re-directed it's path so it no longer threatens earth ... from contact 256 may 13 th 1996...

So do you think this wayward destroyer planet or Nibiru is coming back around?
Folks have been rather worried lately.
I'm of the opinion that this is not the case. I believe Billy Meier and I don't think there is anything to worry about as far as this is concerned.

Hi DNA, I posted a thread on Nibiru here: showthread.php?61878-Ancient-Egyptians-NIBIRU-is-NEBHERU-the-planet-Venus (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?61878-Ancient-Egyptians-NIBIRU-is-NEBHERU-the-planet-Venus--).

[421E]

Research at Mount Padang is Done, Researchers Find Something 'Special'

Jakarta - Independent Integrated Research Team (TTRM) Gunung Padang have finished doing the initial research. A number of samples have been studied and prepared for the report. They reported found something special.

Erick Rizky, TTRM members said, the report results of research in Gunung Padang will then be reported to the President, several ministries, local government of West Java and local government regency of Cianjur . Of the report, the research will be continued by the state.

The research team found four layers in Mount Padang. According to Erick, layers 1 and 2 will be followed up by the Ministry of Education Culture or the Government. While the other two layers, called very special, to be determined by the president.

"While the layers 3 and 4 are 'very special' and 'the only one in this world' seems not Ministry of Education Culture region. Whether the defense ministry, or the ministry of Energy and Mineral Resources, or maybe the National Guards, will be handed over everything to the direction of the President," said Erick in a release told AFP on Wednesday (09/11/2013).

What the special findings is? Based on the analysis of a number of published findings, allegedly a special technology tucked beneath layers of mount padang. Previously, the researchers found a chamber or room, giant bowls, rivers and springs, domes, towers, aquifer and transmitter. Magnetic anomalies are also found in these locations.

These findings point to a device which is similar to a hydroelectric power plant reactors.

President's special staff Andi Arief is also part of the research team said, it is true there are a number of findings in Mount Padang. But he did not want to give details of what information the special building is.

"Culture of layer 1 and 2 are excavated by ali akbar's team. Layer 3 and 4 is it true a reactors just like analyzed, I need to ask the researchers more detail. Many parties are asking the same thing." he told reporters when asked for confirmation.

"I can not precede the conclusion of researchers. I just could make sure the content is an advanced technology," he continued.

Research on site of Gunung Padang is indeed invited the attention of many parties. When discussed, this site is associated with the pyramids. While many would call Mount Padang's model just similar to site on Machupichu.

The study was conducted independently integrated team consisting of various experts. What actually the contents of the mountain is? The Report of the researchers will answer it.

m.detik.com/news/read/2013/09/11/162803/2356025/10/riset-di-gunung-padang-selesai-peneliti-temukan-sesuatu-yang-istimewa?9922022

[Atlas]

Hi 421E and welcome to Avalon! ;)



projectavalon.net/Is-Gunung-Padang-the-oldest-pyramid-on-the-planet (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62108-Is-Gunung-Padang-the-oldest-pyramid-on-the-planet)

http://s3.amazonaws.com/readers/2011/03/02/105778gunungsadahuripgarutcreditturanggaseta_1.jpg
Mount Sadahurip – Garut, Indonesia


...have you found anyone to mention if those two mountains, in the background, have been checked to see if they are also pyramids? Looks alot like three more linning up like the three at Giza. hmm.

And, is the thickness of dirt covering these, more or less, than the thickness of dirt covering the pyramids in China? Also, how would they compare to those in Bosnia?
Do you think you can help answer the question of sirdipswitch ?

[Billy]

Welcome to Avalon 421E and thank you for this info.

If you wish to share a link use the blue icon that looks like the blue planet which is placed at the center of all the icons above the reply box or when creating a new thread.

I found the site where this story is being discussed here. Great site by the way. :yo:

http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=32740

[Atlas]

I found the site where this story is being discussed here. Great site by the way. :yo:

http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=32740
Thank you billyji. Some photos from your link:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5011/5497728998_90ae78aae5_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8528/8474114805_87f6e6828d_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8525/8491746864_d4c05af6f4_b.jpg


See also: projectavalon.net/News-from-gunung-padang-A-device-which-is-similar-to-a-hydroelectric-power-plant-reactors-in-layer-25.000-BC (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?63631-News-from-gunung-padang-A-device-which-is-similar-to-a-hydroelectric-power-plant-reactors-in-layer-25.000-BC)

[Atlas]

I found the site where this story is being discussed here. Great site by the way. :yo:

http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=32740
Thank you billyji. Some photos from your link:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5011/5497728998_90ae78aae5_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8528/8474114805_87f6e6828d_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8525/8491746864_d4c05af6f4_b.jpg

[ghostrider]

what ??? a civilization 25,000 yrs ago smarter than us ??? the ptb are gonna squash this one ...

[lotos]

Dr. Semir Osmanagich, discoverer of Bosnian Pyramid visited Jakarta, Indonesia, as a guest of dr.D.Hilman, discoverer of 'pyramid' in Indonesia, and he confirmed that Gunung Padang is a pyramid.
http://www.smh.com.au/photogallery/world/ancient-pyramids-in-indonesia-20130726-2qpf7.html?selectedImage=2
Dr. Semir Osmanagich said in Jakarta,: "Today, the 14th of May of 2014. I confirm that, based on preliminary geophysical scientific measurements, under layers of earth elevations (mountain) Gunung Padang, there is the oldest pyramid building in Asia. Higher than 100 meters, and according to the first radiocarbon data, older than 23,000 years. Let's call it 'Pyramid Padang' - Pyramid of Light."


EDIT: I have merged Lotos's new thread with this existing thread.

Billy

Peace.

[lotos]

Thank you Billy! :)

[lotos]

Dr. Semir Osmanagich mentioned in his presentation in Jakarta, that
there are surprising similarities between the Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun and Pyramid of Padang in Indonesia.
Both have the geometry of the pyramid, it was used local materials, there were identified the inner chamber passes, and water flows.
Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun is located above the iron plate / ore, and the Indonesian uses volcanic rock (iron) as a building material.
Iron generates its own electromagnetic energy. We used materials that have conductive properties of energy.
Quartz in Bosnia and quartz sand in Indonesia. Water plays a very important role, from generating electricity to medicinal qualities.
His presentation was met with great interest and approval and
it began talks on concrete cooperation between the Foundation "Archaeological Park: Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun" and the corresponding scientific organizations of Indonesian government.
It seems that dr. Semir Osmanagich get better understanding for his work far away from home
then in his own country and in some conservative archaeological and geological circles in the West.

[Atlas]

Robert M. Schoch's journey to Gunung Padang

http://atlantisrisingmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/104-41-Gunung.jpg




Based on the evidence, I believe that human use of the site began by circa 14,700 BCE. Possibly the earliest use of the site goes back to circa 22,000 BCE or even earlier—we just do not know.

Link to article: http://atlantisrisingmagazine.com/2014/03/01/journey-to-gunung-padang/

4K5Lu0rqXHA

[ThePythonicCow]

Here's an update on Gunung Padang from Graham Hancock: Latest News From The Excavations At Gunung Padang, The Mysterious Ancient Pyramid In Indonesia That Is Rewriting History (2 Oct 2014 (http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/HancockG10-Gunung-Padang-Latest.php):

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~






http://www.grahamhancock.com/images/forum/HancockG/G9/Gunung-Padang-small.jpg (http://www.grahamhancock.com/images/forum/HancockG/G9/Gunung-Padang-large.jpg)
Artist's impression of Gunung Padang as it would have looked in antiquity by and courtesy of architect Pon S Purajatnika. ©

Click above image for full size image.


The archaeological establishment is scrambling to find some reason to reject and pour scorn on the extraordinary consequences of the excavations now taking place at Gunung Padang in Indonesia.

Since its first exploration by archaeologists in 1914 the site was thought to be a natural hill with 2500 year-old megalithic structures on top of it. But in 2010 geologist Dr Danny Hilman Natawidjaja (who earned his doctorate at Cal Tech) recognized this “hill” as a possible man-made pyramid and began to explore it using ground penetrating radar, seismic tomography, resistivity survey and other remote sensing techniques, as well as some direct excavations and deep core drilling.

The results were immediately intriguing (see this article I wrote in January for background: http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/HancockG9-Mystery-Lost-Civilization.php) producing evidence of deeply buried man-made chambers and yielding carbon dates going back as far as 26,000 years. This was the last Ice Age when our ancestors are supposed (according to the orthodox archaeological model) to be have been nothing more than primitive hunter gatherers incapable of large-scale construction and engineering feats. Was it possible that geologist Natawidjaja was unearthing the proof of a lost advanced civilization of prehistoric antiquity? Such ideas are heresy to mainstream archaeologists and sure enough the archaeological establishment in Indonesia banded together against Dr Natawidjaja and his team, lobbied the political authorities, agitated locally and succeeded in slowing down, though not completely stopping, the further exploration of Gunung Padang.

Dr Natawidjaja fought back, doing some high-level lobbying of his own, taking the matter to the President of Indonesia himself. There were further delays to do with elections in Indonesia but just a couple of months ago, in mid-August 2014, the final obstacles were lifted and Dr Natawidjaja and his team moved back onto the Gunung Padang site with full approval to go ahead with their work, including permission to excavate the concealed chambers.

Archaeologists were furious and immediately began lobbying to get the work stopped – fortunately to no avail as preliminary excavations have produced results that prove beyond doubt that Gunung Padang in indeed a man-made pyramid of great antiquity as Dr Natawidjaja had long ago proposed. Even the relatively young layer so far excavated (the second artificial columnar rock-layer beneath the megalithic site visible on the surface) has yielded dates of 5200 BC (nearly 3000 years older than the orthodox dating for the Pyramids of Giza in Egypt) and there are firm indications from the original remote sensing and core drilling work of much older layers below. In short, it is now evident to all that the site is vastly older than the 2500 years that archaeologists had insisted upon for decades. Even the most hostile amongst them are therefore now reframing their assessment of the site and referring to it as “a gigantic terraced tomb, which was part of the biggest megalithic culture in the archipelago.”

For a flavor of the sour grapes the archaeological establishment feel towards Dr Natawidjaja and his team see this recent article from the Jakarta Post: http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/09/24/archaeologists-slam-excavation-gunung-padang-site.html

I asked Dr Natawidjaja for his response to the Jakarta Post article and he replied as follows:

“The article has got the story all wrong. All excavations were supervised by archeologists from Agency for Conservation and Management of Archaeological Sites (BPCB) and University of Indonesia. The excavation sites have also recently been inspected by the Director for Conservation of Archeological Sites (who is the boss of Miss Desril Shanti ), by the head of the BPCB, and by the Minister of Education and Culture himself. Afterward, they gave a press conference confirming that all excavations are good and proper. For information, the head of the National Archeological Center, which is the main office above local Archeological Centers including Bandung Archeological Center, is also a member of the National Team for Gunung Padang. The Jakarta Post article is also wrong about the funding. The Minister of Education and Culture did indeed announce in the press conference that he would allocate about Rp 3 billion for the research but it has not begun to be disbursed yet. So far, I and my team are still working willingly on our own funding with the help of the soldiers (TNI) who have been working alongside us. Of course the TNI have their own funding – but not from that Endowment Fund.”

As to the progress of the work at Gunung Padang, Dr Natawidjaja writes as follows:

“The research progress has been being great. We have excavated three more spots right on top of the megalithic site in the past couple weeks, which give more evidence and details about the buried structures. We have uncovered lots more stone artifacts from the excavations. The existence of the pyramid-like structure beneath the megalithic site is now loud and clear; even for non-specialists, it is not too difficult to understand if they come and see for themselves. We have found some kind of open hall buried by soil 5-7 meters thick; however we have not yet got into the main chamber. We are now drilling to the suspected location of the chamber (based on subsurface geophysic) in the middle of the megalithic site.”

Stay tuned for more news from the front line!

[ExomatrixTV]

This Pyramid Changes The Entire History - Gunung Padang:

a73lTcPAQfQ

[onawah]

That's a great video to share with those who are just now coming to grips with the truth about the planet's history and that seems to be a lot more people, now that Graham Hancock has become the center of so much controversy. :thumbsup:
( I just wish the narrator would pronounce "Mu" correctly--- it's not "Mew" :facepalm: )


This Pyramid Changes The Entire History - Gunung Padang:

[shaberon]

This has indeed gone from "perhaps manmade" a few years ago, to representing multiple layers of construction and burial from ca. 25,000 B. C. E.

A large multi-author study has been published on 10/20/23 (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/arp.1912), which is too much to copy over, but is certainly full of kushy details.


Mal'ta Buret (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal%27ta%E2%80%93Buret%27_culture) in Siberia is not a pyramid, but, a stone age construction of around the same age, over 20,000 years.

One might also note when discussing the presence of Denisovans in Siberia that their closest surviving relatives are the modern people of New Guinea--meaning they mixed with modern humans.

Neanderthals were already mixed with modern humans.

Denisovans were only recently discovered, and, genetics also indicates an additional, unknown/missing specie of humanity in the Far East.

All this could "rewrite" is some limited 1960s view that the history of the planet may have been explained by a small number of then-available samples.

There was stonework, travel, and "inter-species breeding" over 20,000 years ago.

Not sure I would jump to conclusions about advanced technology or their language, but, at a minimum, physical presence with a few abilities appear to be beyond doubt.

[Bill Ryan]

:bump::bump::bump:

[onawah]

Update on Gunung Padang
25,000 Year-Old Pyramid Exposed?
Mystery History
584K subscribers
Jun 30, 2024

(A bit of a clickbait title, since most of the video below are a rehash of proofs that various ancient artefacts must have been made with some kind of sophisticated technology. But the last part, starting at 13 minutes 30 seconds in, is devoted to developments concerning the exploration and disclosure of findings at Gunung Padang, which have largely been suppressed. The timing referenced in that video is unclear, but following is an article in the NY Times from March 2024 which clarifies that much at least, and apparently explorations and suppression of findings both are ongoing:"
Study About Purported Ancient ‘Pyramid’ in Indonesia Is Retracted
By Mike Ives
Published March 20, 2024
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/20/science/indonesia-oldest-pyramid-gunung-padang.html

""The study, based on research featured in a Netflix documentary, fueled debate over a site that is used for Islamic and Hindu rituals.

The American publisher of a study that challenged scientific orthodoxy by claiming that an archaeological site in Indonesia may be the world’s “oldest pyramid” says it has been retracted.

The October 2023 study in the journal Archaeological Prospection made the explosive claim that the deepest layer of the site, Gunung Padang, appears to have been “sculpted” by humans up to 27,000 years ago.

The study’s critics say that it incorrectly dated the human presence at Gunung Padang based on radiocarbon measurements of soil from drilling samples, not artifacts. The journal’s American publisher, Wiley, cited that exact reasoning in the retraction notice it issued on Monday.

Gunung Padang is widely considered a dormant volcano, and archaeologists say that ceramics recovered there so far suggest that humans have been using it for several hundred years or more — not anything close to 27,000 years. The pyramids of Giza in Egypt are only about 4,500 years old.

The retraction, based on a monthslong investigation, said that the study was flawed because its soil samples “were not associated with any artifacts or features that could be reliably interpreted as anthropogenic or ‘man-made.’”

Some archaeologists said in interviews that they welcomed the retraction. But the study’s authors called it “unjust,” saying in a statement on Wednesday that their soil samples had been “unequivocally established as man-made constructions or archaeological features,” in part because the soil layers included artifacts.

“We urge the academic community, scientific organizations, and concerned individuals to stand with us in challenging this decision and upholding the principles of integrity, transparency, and fairness in scientific research and publishing,” the authors wrote.

The study’s lead author, Danny Hilman Natawidjaja, an earthquake geologist, did not immediately respond to a request for comment. Neither did Wiley or the editors of Archaeological Prospection, Eileen Ernenwein and Gregory Tsokas.

One prominent supporter of Mr. Natawidjaja’s research, the journalist Graham Hancock, said in a statement he did not see the retraction as “fair, justified or good science.” He said that instead of issuing a retraction, the journal should have published critiques of the paper, a move he said would have allowed readers to make up their own minds.

“Science should not be about suppression,” said Mr. Hancock, who interviewed Mr. Natawidjaja for an episode about Gunung Padang on “Ancient Apocalypse,” his 2022 Netflix documentary series.

The Society for American Archaeology has said that Mr. Hancock’s Netflix show “devalues the archaeological profession on the basis of false claims and disinformation.” He has vigorously rejected that argument, arguing that archaeologists should be more open to theories that challenge academic orthodoxy. Netflix did not respond to a request for comment on the retraction.

People from Indonesia have long traveled to Gunung Padang, a hilltop site dotted with stone terraces, to hold Islamic and Hindu rituals. A domestic narrative portraying it as a very, very old pyramid had support, and financing, from the central government during the administration of President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, who left office in 2014. His successor, President Joko Widodo, cut off the funding.

Archaeologists said in interviews on Wednesday that they welcomed the retraction.

One of them, Noel Hidalgo Tan, an archaeologist in Bangkok who had relayed his concerns about the study to Wiley, said that he considered the retraction “entirely appropriate” because the study’s evidence did not support its conclusions.

“It was unfortunate that the paper had to get to this stage,” said Dr. Tan, who works at the Southeast Asian Regional Center for Archaeology and Fine Arts. “But it was better to be retracted than to have nothing said about it at all.”

Dwi Ratna Nurhajarini, the head of the Cultural Heritage Conservation Office in West Java Province, the location of the site, said the study’s conclusions should be re-examined in light of the retraction.

“The structures at Gunung Padang are indeed layered and terraced, reminiscent of civilizations from Indonesia’s distant past,” she said by phone on Wednesday. “But their age might not be as old as suggested.”"


E_PFsuD8HPw

[shaberon]

The study’s critics say that it incorrectly dated the human presence at Gunung Padang based on radiocarbon measurements of soil from drilling samples, not artifacts.


Yes, this is a concern with *most* similar studies, and, comes under the rubric of "science": what can be verified by repetition?

For example, something at Dwarka was found to be 9,000 years old. It's a piece of driftwood. This cannot possibly constitute any proof of ancient engineering.

The so-called "comet impacts" affecting the Black Sea are similar. Studies using multiple readings have established that the sea "rose" over a period of time, it never "flooded" in a cataclysm.

Here, we can say there is not much objection to "stone age tools" of 20,000 years old, but usually they were not used to sculpt an entire mountain--most sites are rather small. Mal'ta Buret is not a castle. I don't really know much about ancient Indonesia, but, it was titanic during the height of Java, ca. our years 500-800; in that sense, with the late Roman crumbling of Europe off of the "world order", Java or Indonesia and east Africa in the Swahili regions replaced it.

[Michel Leclerc]

The study’s critics say that it incorrectly dated the human presence at Gunung Padang based on radiocarbon measurements of soil from drilling samples, not artifacts.


Yes, this is a concern with *most* similar studies, and, comes under the rubric of "science": what can be verified by repetition?

For example, something at Dwarka was found to be 9,000 years old. It's a piece of driftwood. This cannot possibly constitute any proof of ancient engineering.

The so-called "comet impacts" affecting the Black Sea are similar. Studies using multiple readings have established that the sea "rose" over a period of time, it never "flooded" in a cataclysm.

Here, we can say there is not much objection to "stone age tools" of 20,000 years old, but usually they were not used to sculpt an entire mountain--most sites are rather small. Mal'ta Buret is not a castle. I don't really know much about ancient Indonesia, but, it was titanic during the height of Java, ca. our years 500-800; in that sense, with the late Roman crumbling of Europe off of the "world order", Java or Indonesia and east Africa in the Swahili regions replaced it.

Shaberon, thank you for your remarks.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by: “The so-called "comet impacts" affecting the Black Sea are similar.” ?

Have you read that that somewhere? It seems to mix up two entirely different contexts.

[shaberon]

Could you elaborate on what you mean by: “The so-called "comet impacts" affecting the Black Sea are similar.” ?

Have you read that that somewhere? It seems to mix up two entirely different contexts.


Yes, I made another smorgasbord.


The ersatz comet has the specific name:


Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas_impact_hypothesis)

Requiem (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012825211000262) 2011

Comprehensive Refutation (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012825223001915) 2023


It is not disputed there was an unusually cold period in the Little Ice Age ca. 12,900 years ago--but the reason for it almost certainly has nothing to do with a comet striking the earth.


Secondly, not really a comet, but the Bosphorus or Black Sea Deluge Hypothesis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_hypothesis) was coined in 1997.

Those are fine theories, I suppose, but they do not bear examination to the point where we can definitely say "this is so".

More than likely, they never happened, sort of like the Great Flood.

I, personally, think the Flood is sheer nonsense.

There are plenty of local ones, Santorini/Crete would fit the bill of "indisputable", and Dwarka has almost certainly been submerged twice. On a grand scale, the most I would be comfortable in saying, is yes, after the Ice Age, the sea rose about 120m everywhere, over centuries.

Otherwise, it seems a misguided understanding, because most myths discuss Waters and the Lifting of the Earth, but it's a myth, it's trying to describe the material world condensed out of a mental or heavenly one. It's a subjective metaphor, not actual history.

So far, from reviewing various things like this, I am convinced of the opposite, that ancient man was horrible at "recording cataclysms" or anything like that. The Kashmir glyph is a perfect example, yes the piece can be dated into a range which is like 4,000-4,500 YBP, sort of like the supernova, can be dated in a range that spans centuries, and it only lasted for two weeks. Moreover, there is no other known ca. 4,000-4,500 artifact that even remotely suggests such a thing. That's far too wobbly for me to even attempt to piece it together.

The Black Sea events pose a similar conflict for the Gobekeli Tepe Vulture.

In Indonesia, I'm not that interested in 20,000 year old soil, show me the shovel that did it.

At that age, the data set of Mal'ta Buret is probably something like a gold standard. It carries the inconvenient truth that the early emigrations to America at this time means they were basically White People. It is not until the ca. 10,000 YBP range that mixtures of Oriental genetics show up in the American Indians.

It is also notable that Denisovan DNA from Siberia is now these days only found among the New Guineans. Remember this is about 45,000 years old and very very rare.

One can hardly doubt that there has been long-range human migration for a very long time; it's just that there is not much more we can say about them.

[onawah]

This Disturbing Gunung Padang UPDATE Will Shock You
Bright Insight
1.63M subscribers
7/12/24

(Jimmy Corsetti talks about how and why humanity's true history on Earth is being suppressed by TPTB, particularly in the cases of Gunung Padang and Gobekli Tepe .)

"This 2024 update of Gunung Padang’s 27,000 year old Pyramid structure is shocking and disturbing."

0zpVi1pE5zw

[ExomatrixTV]

This Disturbing Gunung Padang Pyramid WEF (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?118748-Top-10-Creepiest-Most-Dystopian-Things-Pushed-By-The-World-Economic-Forum) UPDATE:

https://hugh.cdn.rumble.cloud/video/s8/2/1/Y/c/S/1YcSs.gaa.rec.mp4


source (https://rumble.com/v56o5o5-this-disturbing-gunung-padang-update-will-shock-you.html)

Gunung Padang in Indonesia may be the oldest pyramid in the world (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12708099/worlds-oldest-pyramid-Gunung-Padang-Indonesia-three-times-older-Stonehenge-Egyptian-pyramids-Giza.html) . Researchers say the structure could be up to 27,000 years old. Surprisingly, no large-scale excavations are carried out. Why not? The Indonesian government is willing to finance archaeologists.

Jimmy Corsetti of the popular channel Bright Insight previously revealed how the World Economic Forum is blocking archaeological digs at Gobekli Tepe. In 2017, when the WEF began interfering with this temple complex in Turkey, only 5 percent had been uncovered and that has not changed since.
Watch the video:


"Global Shapers"

Corsetti has now made an alarming and disturbing discovery (https://youtu.be/0zpVi1pE5zw) . He investigated who you should contact if you want to carry out excavations at Gunung Padang. That is one Hilmar Farid, the director general of culture of the Indonesian Ministry of Education, Culture, Research and Technology. He has said that excavating the pyramid is not a priority.

His boss, the Minister of Education, is billionaire Nadiem Anwar Makarim (https://www.weforum.org/people/nadiem-makarim/) . He is a member of the World Economic Forum and also a so-called World Economic Forum (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?118748-Top-10-Creepiest-Most-Dystopian-Things-Pushed-By-The-World-Economic-Forum) Global Shaper. Global Shapers, so-called 'positive disruptors', are younger than the now well-known Young Global Leaders. The WEF has therefore also penetrated the Indonesian cabinet.


Extremely worrying

Makarim's predecessor, Bambang Brodjonegoro (https://www.weforum.org/people/bambang-brodjonegoro/) , is also from the WEF (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?118748-Top-10-Creepiest-Most-Dystopian-Things-Pushed-By-The-World-Economic-Forum). The people who can decide whether to excavate the pyramid are all affiliated with the World Economic Forum. According to Corsetti, this is 'extremely worrying'.


dutch (https://www.ninefornews.nl/alarmerende-en-verontrustende-ontdekking-over-oudste-piramide-ter-wereld-en-dit-heeft-het-wef-ermee-te-maken/) 🇳🇱 (+ Multi-Language Options). 🦜🦋🌳