Mark (Star Mariner)
15th August 2013, 18:55
Some recent comments made in this hot topic, http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60676-An-ad-hominem-attack-on-Doug-Hagmann has prompted me to open up a line of discussion on the real truth – my truth anyway – behind homosexuality. There were a number of comments made here that were… hard for me to digest, and I feel the time is right to set the record straight, as far as I am personally concerned – and offer my own fairly… hmmm, ‘unique’ perspective I think you could say, regarding what being gay is, who – and why – gay people are, and what is behind the process that determines if one is gay, or not.
This story, and the analysis of ‘being gay’ I am about to make, is quite long, so please bear with it if this is of interest to you. It explores some very important, and at times complex (and controversial), spiritual concepts as well, which may not be to everyone's taste.
I’d like to think I am reasonably qualified to speak on the topic from personal experience, but perhaps of an unusual kind. Thus I feel can I can interpret a few things that perhaps have not yet been conveyed – or least have not been commonly represented here – due to my unique, and objective, point of view… ‘point of view’ isn’t the right phrase, ‘point of perspective,’ would be better – angle of observation.
Everyone here I’m sure can say they have, or have had in the past, a ‘best friend’. Not just a buddy, pal, someone they hanged round with, shared a few beers. A dearest, dearest, friend, with whom you have the closest bond, the deepest possible relationship that goes to the deepest spiritual level, even if it is platonic. This is what I have with my best friend, who is gay. The slightly different circumstance is, I am not gay, but straight. I don’t know, maybe this isn’t uncommon, that a gay person and straight person can often be ‘best friends’. But we have never come across this anywhere else, not on our level. And we’ve been best friends since we were young adults, which is 24 years now, so for my part for certain I have plenty of insight to share on the topic.
I do not know what it is to be gay, I’ll grant that, but I think I have a solid grasp of what being gay is… even if it is from a heterosexual perspective. But it is not a common or conventional one
Anyway, the friendship we have, the connection we share and the awareness/understanding of each other, cannot be explained or described in words. It transcends words; we transcend normal friendship and even family. We are psychically connected too, on a profound level. He knows everything about me, and me about him. Our friendship has often been the source of some amusement, even incredulity among our other friends (his gay friends and my straight friends). It is just hard to explain, so I won’t even try. But we are not ‘soul mates’, not in that sense, as that type of connection must involve a fundamentally intimate recognition, and thus relationship. We are not ‘of’ that, but are as close to that without being that, if you see what I mean. So we have never had any kind of intimate, ie sexual, contact.
I remember the day clearly when he came out to me. Us in his living room, him sitting opposite me, nervously fidgeting in his chair, me, reposed on a sofa holding a cup of tea wondering what this ‘important thing’ he wanted to discuss was (we’d been friends a couple of years by this point). After a brief silence, him sweating and gnawing his fingernails, he just blurted it out. ‘I’m gay. I am 100-percent gay! and always have been…’ I was silent for a while, thinking, ok, he’s gay. I’m not. He likes guys, I like girls. How does this change anything?’ I couldn’t understand why he had gotten so worked up about it. There were no clues, or ‘tells’, that I was aware of, which indicated he was manifestly gay. But I do think I always knew on another (spiritual) level. He had successfully feigned an interest in girls, without me ever seeing him going out with one. But hey, we were young, so what? he just hadn’t met that special someone yet, I thought. ‘Yeh, nice work mate! You fooled me there.’ But he needn’t have bothered, it didn’t change anything for me.
He has since admitted that it was one of the most nervous and worrying things he ever had to do, to come out to ‘me’, not to his parents or to anyone else, but to me. I felt deeply honoured, and humbled, that he felt that much for me, and quite amused that he had gotten into quite a nervous state about it, fearing that I might get up and leave, never speak to him again or something. My reply was something like, ‘you’re gay. Okay, so what?’
The next few months I was his chaperon as he went out to explore ‘the scene’ as gay people call it. Going to gay bars and clubs. He hadn’t explored this before, and really wanted to do it, to branch out and meet other gay people, but didn’t want to do it alone, because it was new and strange and a bit frightening for him I guess. I was happy to accompany him, and it was an eye-opener for me, I felt quite the fish out of water. But this was about his experience, finding out about who he was, and what he was trying to find.
He forged a number of relationships in those early years, none of which worked out unfortunately. He seemed to be the type that people ended up betraying, and walking over, which was very sad to witness. And on many occasions I had to pick him up from these numerous falls. What else are best friends for, right? But that is not what this is about. But the quality, the being-ness of being gay, and the ‘why’, from a spiritual sense. This is what, over the years, we have both questioned and explored.
I’m sure that the greater majority of us here on Avalon are in happy agreement, that sexuality is as irrelevant as the colour of skin. I would hope so anyway! Let us first and foremost get that part out of the way: that we are all the same, we are all spiritual beings. If you don’t agree with that, then the topic I’m about to discuss will not be of interest to you at all.
Both myself and my friend are both spiritual people, with a strong metaphysical background, so we are able to approach the whys and wherefores of this type of thing from a far greater perspective than mere ‘genetics’, ‘anthropology’, ‘sociology’ or whatever. Spiritually speaking, we are all souls from the same source, splinters of God travelling through Creation on an experience-curve of personal evolution, back to that same God, where we started. If one establishes a state of un-love in their conscious thinking, ie homophobia against gay people – or any type of prejudice, then assuredly, in one’s future, in another life, one will be the subject of at least some kind of discrimination. Karma can hurt. This is why it is so important to learn love NOW, and avoid having to go through a tough lesson.
Now I am not saying AT ALL that gay people, or any such individual that is not a ‘majority’ so to speak, is undergoing some kind of karmic process. Homosexuality is not karma – unless it involves an individual learning a lesson about love, which they have failed to learn before.
With my friend I already know, and he already knows, why he is here, why he is gay. Bottom line: this is the realm of free choice, free will. He chose to be gay in this life. There is no such thing as ‘chance’ when it comes to something so profound and life-defining as being gay. It was not an accidental genetic condition – nor was it a ‘conscious’ choice, a choice made in this life, such as ‘Oh, I think I’ll be gay from now on.’ It doesn’t and cannot work that way. Actually, It was before he came into this incarnation that he chose to be gay…
Perhaps the reason why, was because he was seeking a different perspective on existence, or maybe to offer his parents, particularly his Dad (an ex-marine, with whom he suffered terribly for being ‘not a real man’ in his words), a possible karmic lesson, an opportunity to see past his cultural conditioning and express love for his son, who in his eyes was not a hot-blooded heterosexual, a real man living a real man’s world! like he did. His dad passed away a few years ago, and whether he ever came to terms with that, whether or not in his ailing years he was able to see past his prejudice and learned to accept, and to love, the jury is out.
But there is another reason for being gay we both feel (there is always more than one reason), and it is a complex one, and a more involved grasp of metaphysics is required to understand and embrace it. I hesitate on discussing it here, because it may not ‘resonate’ with all – and perhaps may offend some, and that absolutely is not my intention. If anyone is offended, affronted in any way, I sincerely apologise. My intention is only to provide a new slant to at least consider – a different perspective to try on for size…
The other reason that we both believe that he chose to incarnate gay in this life, is that his natural, preferred energy-state (over there, the spirit side), is female, in that this particular facet of his higher, spiritual self, prefers to express itself as female.
Our higher-self contains many, many aspects or ‘facets’ of ourselves, many different qualities and attributes. And we project (incarnate) these different facets into different and separate lives, to work on them individually. Ultimately, ‘up there’, we are all male, and we are all female – we consist of both blends of energy. At one time or another we have incarnated as both sexes and in all races and colours, experienced all cultures, religions and belief systems. We have spoken all (or a great number) of languages. So if anyone is holding onto a prejudice way of thinking, now is the time to rethink that point of view. Take into account that you are likely discriminating against what you, or an aspect of you once was, or, what you will come back as, if you are unable to grasp/understand that you are, have been, or will be, everything; that we are all ONE anyway, and all that matters is LOVE.
We are souls with bodies. Not bodies with souls. So if you are having trouble with the image of a ‘man being romantically or sexually involved with another man’, instead see the energies at play. This is quite often two female energies expressing those polarities through, and with, the polarities of male physicalness.
The female polarity, in its inherent personality/energy-state, is naturally drawn to the male physical-state. And vice versa, ie a predominantly male energy, usually, is attracted to the female physical. Opposites attract you see, this is usually the case, and it is a basic constant observed throughout the universe. Yes, opposites! Isn’t that interesting that the bigoted call it ‘same-sex relationships’, when in fact, there is still an ‘opposite-ness’ going on, but on merely an energetic, less perceptible level.
(Yes, Like also attracts Like, and that is what many people believe when they view homosexuality, but it isn’t always so. The ‘Like attracts Like’ scenario, the ‘birds of a feather’ thing, this is more likely something else, more to do with one vibration (spiritually speaking) attracting a like vibration. It is a different process I believe, involving a different and unrelated principal.) When it comes to sexual and energetic characteristics (not vibrational, because the vibrations of any two individuals could be at any frequency at all) it is usually pure opposites that attract – even if is two small, minor elements embedded within that energy, that are seeking a polar opposite to unite with.
I must also say that it may very well happen that some gay men would say, ‘wait a minute, I’m not female-energy, I don’t feel that at all, this is all nonsense,’ or a lesbian: ‘I’m not male energy, I am definitely all woman!’ That may be so. Some of these gay men may inherently hold a more male energy of course, but is merely exploring in this incarnation a different aspect of maleness, to be perhaps totally immersed into the maleness to attend to some attribute of that side of his polarity which needed work (in this incarnation). It is the same for some female-aligned energies that are extruding themselves into a lesbian paradigm, into female bodies for sexual and romantic experiences in a more tender and gentle environment with other females, through which certain aspects of that female energy can be subtly and more sensitively refined.
At the end of the day, it’s simply the coming together, and exploring of one’s energy with another, and however that is translated in the physical, whether it’s with a penis or a vagina, it is ultimately of no importance. If doctrine and societal ‘norms’ have a problem with this, it is only because it does not understand what is actually taking place. The dogmatists and bigots in our world, who give gay people or transgender people or whoever, a hard time, will one day understand… when comes the time for them to take that spiritual step, and examine these experiential realties, this time from the other side!
These ideas may appear ‘controversial’ to some, and again I am sorry if it has offended. If so, or if it just doesn’t resonate, just move past it. Ignore it and be content with whatever does resonate with you. It’s all fine! :) But back to my friend. The preferred choices this time round for him were either to incarnate as this female energy in a female body (which he has been before, obviously) or, as a female energy in a male body, and to embrace a different experience. The latter obviously was what happened, and for him it has been a very tough road to travel.
Female energy in a male body: this is what he feels in his spiritual-self, and his emotional/energetic self. It is what we both believe is happening here. He is not in any way ‘effeminate’ – but ‘straight-acting’, to use gay parlance. And there isn’t a transgender issue with him either (transgenderism (sic?) is another topic); he is very comfortable being a male. He just feels that the spiritual ‘stuff’ of which he is made, is female oriented, in its refinement and inherent property, in condition and sensitivity, and he is articulating that in, and through, a male vehicle this time round. And because we are physically/psychologically the sum of our spiritual selves (what we bring in as our incarnated energy-self), we program this into our body and neurochemistry, thus his arriving spirit shaped the vehicle (the body) into what it was to become, even as it was developing embryonically in the womb. He chose to be gay, and so his body engineered itself to provide that experience.
This is not unusual, because we chose everything about ourselves before we incarnate. The body, and all its potentials and limitations, its environment, its geographical location, the culture/language/religion, our parents, family, and friends (often these are close spiritual groups that have incarnated together, and are working through karmic lessons). Basically, everything is pre-selected and agreed on. And being gay, for gay people, is probably the biggest and most profound of the choices they make, and the key focus of that lifetime.
So, there you have it. That is the theory I hold anyway. If you don’t believe it or understand it, that’s fine! :) But this is all inline with my own mediations on the matter, and from my own experiences being for so long around the homosexual paradigm – the gay ‘scene’ – for so many years, as kind of an objective outsider looking in. This is also what he thinks, and what, ultimately, we both feel is the truth at heart. But it’s all quite irrelevant what the truth is really. All that matters, and all that we need to understand, is, that we are all the same beings on this earth, learning not only how to love, but how to accept love. Sexuality is of no importance in the big scheme. For me and my friend it matters not at all.
What we have in our friendship is pretty incredible, and I cherish it. The thousands of talks we’ve had and experiences we’ve shared, all the laughs, and yes, some tears. And we’ve often wondered what our relationship would’ve been like if I’d chosen to be born gay, or if he had been a woman. That we feel would have been very interesting indeed!
This story, and the analysis of ‘being gay’ I am about to make, is quite long, so please bear with it if this is of interest to you. It explores some very important, and at times complex (and controversial), spiritual concepts as well, which may not be to everyone's taste.
I’d like to think I am reasonably qualified to speak on the topic from personal experience, but perhaps of an unusual kind. Thus I feel can I can interpret a few things that perhaps have not yet been conveyed – or least have not been commonly represented here – due to my unique, and objective, point of view… ‘point of view’ isn’t the right phrase, ‘point of perspective,’ would be better – angle of observation.
Everyone here I’m sure can say they have, or have had in the past, a ‘best friend’. Not just a buddy, pal, someone they hanged round with, shared a few beers. A dearest, dearest, friend, with whom you have the closest bond, the deepest possible relationship that goes to the deepest spiritual level, even if it is platonic. This is what I have with my best friend, who is gay. The slightly different circumstance is, I am not gay, but straight. I don’t know, maybe this isn’t uncommon, that a gay person and straight person can often be ‘best friends’. But we have never come across this anywhere else, not on our level. And we’ve been best friends since we were young adults, which is 24 years now, so for my part for certain I have plenty of insight to share on the topic.
I do not know what it is to be gay, I’ll grant that, but I think I have a solid grasp of what being gay is… even if it is from a heterosexual perspective. But it is not a common or conventional one
Anyway, the friendship we have, the connection we share and the awareness/understanding of each other, cannot be explained or described in words. It transcends words; we transcend normal friendship and even family. We are psychically connected too, on a profound level. He knows everything about me, and me about him. Our friendship has often been the source of some amusement, even incredulity among our other friends (his gay friends and my straight friends). It is just hard to explain, so I won’t even try. But we are not ‘soul mates’, not in that sense, as that type of connection must involve a fundamentally intimate recognition, and thus relationship. We are not ‘of’ that, but are as close to that without being that, if you see what I mean. So we have never had any kind of intimate, ie sexual, contact.
I remember the day clearly when he came out to me. Us in his living room, him sitting opposite me, nervously fidgeting in his chair, me, reposed on a sofa holding a cup of tea wondering what this ‘important thing’ he wanted to discuss was (we’d been friends a couple of years by this point). After a brief silence, him sweating and gnawing his fingernails, he just blurted it out. ‘I’m gay. I am 100-percent gay! and always have been…’ I was silent for a while, thinking, ok, he’s gay. I’m not. He likes guys, I like girls. How does this change anything?’ I couldn’t understand why he had gotten so worked up about it. There were no clues, or ‘tells’, that I was aware of, which indicated he was manifestly gay. But I do think I always knew on another (spiritual) level. He had successfully feigned an interest in girls, without me ever seeing him going out with one. But hey, we were young, so what? he just hadn’t met that special someone yet, I thought. ‘Yeh, nice work mate! You fooled me there.’ But he needn’t have bothered, it didn’t change anything for me.
He has since admitted that it was one of the most nervous and worrying things he ever had to do, to come out to ‘me’, not to his parents or to anyone else, but to me. I felt deeply honoured, and humbled, that he felt that much for me, and quite amused that he had gotten into quite a nervous state about it, fearing that I might get up and leave, never speak to him again or something. My reply was something like, ‘you’re gay. Okay, so what?’
The next few months I was his chaperon as he went out to explore ‘the scene’ as gay people call it. Going to gay bars and clubs. He hadn’t explored this before, and really wanted to do it, to branch out and meet other gay people, but didn’t want to do it alone, because it was new and strange and a bit frightening for him I guess. I was happy to accompany him, and it was an eye-opener for me, I felt quite the fish out of water. But this was about his experience, finding out about who he was, and what he was trying to find.
He forged a number of relationships in those early years, none of which worked out unfortunately. He seemed to be the type that people ended up betraying, and walking over, which was very sad to witness. And on many occasions I had to pick him up from these numerous falls. What else are best friends for, right? But that is not what this is about. But the quality, the being-ness of being gay, and the ‘why’, from a spiritual sense. This is what, over the years, we have both questioned and explored.
I’m sure that the greater majority of us here on Avalon are in happy agreement, that sexuality is as irrelevant as the colour of skin. I would hope so anyway! Let us first and foremost get that part out of the way: that we are all the same, we are all spiritual beings. If you don’t agree with that, then the topic I’m about to discuss will not be of interest to you at all.
Both myself and my friend are both spiritual people, with a strong metaphysical background, so we are able to approach the whys and wherefores of this type of thing from a far greater perspective than mere ‘genetics’, ‘anthropology’, ‘sociology’ or whatever. Spiritually speaking, we are all souls from the same source, splinters of God travelling through Creation on an experience-curve of personal evolution, back to that same God, where we started. If one establishes a state of un-love in their conscious thinking, ie homophobia against gay people – or any type of prejudice, then assuredly, in one’s future, in another life, one will be the subject of at least some kind of discrimination. Karma can hurt. This is why it is so important to learn love NOW, and avoid having to go through a tough lesson.
Now I am not saying AT ALL that gay people, or any such individual that is not a ‘majority’ so to speak, is undergoing some kind of karmic process. Homosexuality is not karma – unless it involves an individual learning a lesson about love, which they have failed to learn before.
With my friend I already know, and he already knows, why he is here, why he is gay. Bottom line: this is the realm of free choice, free will. He chose to be gay in this life. There is no such thing as ‘chance’ when it comes to something so profound and life-defining as being gay. It was not an accidental genetic condition – nor was it a ‘conscious’ choice, a choice made in this life, such as ‘Oh, I think I’ll be gay from now on.’ It doesn’t and cannot work that way. Actually, It was before he came into this incarnation that he chose to be gay…
Perhaps the reason why, was because he was seeking a different perspective on existence, or maybe to offer his parents, particularly his Dad (an ex-marine, with whom he suffered terribly for being ‘not a real man’ in his words), a possible karmic lesson, an opportunity to see past his cultural conditioning and express love for his son, who in his eyes was not a hot-blooded heterosexual, a real man living a real man’s world! like he did. His dad passed away a few years ago, and whether he ever came to terms with that, whether or not in his ailing years he was able to see past his prejudice and learned to accept, and to love, the jury is out.
But there is another reason for being gay we both feel (there is always more than one reason), and it is a complex one, and a more involved grasp of metaphysics is required to understand and embrace it. I hesitate on discussing it here, because it may not ‘resonate’ with all – and perhaps may offend some, and that absolutely is not my intention. If anyone is offended, affronted in any way, I sincerely apologise. My intention is only to provide a new slant to at least consider – a different perspective to try on for size…
The other reason that we both believe that he chose to incarnate gay in this life, is that his natural, preferred energy-state (over there, the spirit side), is female, in that this particular facet of his higher, spiritual self, prefers to express itself as female.
Our higher-self contains many, many aspects or ‘facets’ of ourselves, many different qualities and attributes. And we project (incarnate) these different facets into different and separate lives, to work on them individually. Ultimately, ‘up there’, we are all male, and we are all female – we consist of both blends of energy. At one time or another we have incarnated as both sexes and in all races and colours, experienced all cultures, religions and belief systems. We have spoken all (or a great number) of languages. So if anyone is holding onto a prejudice way of thinking, now is the time to rethink that point of view. Take into account that you are likely discriminating against what you, or an aspect of you once was, or, what you will come back as, if you are unable to grasp/understand that you are, have been, or will be, everything; that we are all ONE anyway, and all that matters is LOVE.
We are souls with bodies. Not bodies with souls. So if you are having trouble with the image of a ‘man being romantically or sexually involved with another man’, instead see the energies at play. This is quite often two female energies expressing those polarities through, and with, the polarities of male physicalness.
The female polarity, in its inherent personality/energy-state, is naturally drawn to the male physical-state. And vice versa, ie a predominantly male energy, usually, is attracted to the female physical. Opposites attract you see, this is usually the case, and it is a basic constant observed throughout the universe. Yes, opposites! Isn’t that interesting that the bigoted call it ‘same-sex relationships’, when in fact, there is still an ‘opposite-ness’ going on, but on merely an energetic, less perceptible level.
(Yes, Like also attracts Like, and that is what many people believe when they view homosexuality, but it isn’t always so. The ‘Like attracts Like’ scenario, the ‘birds of a feather’ thing, this is more likely something else, more to do with one vibration (spiritually speaking) attracting a like vibration. It is a different process I believe, involving a different and unrelated principal.) When it comes to sexual and energetic characteristics (not vibrational, because the vibrations of any two individuals could be at any frequency at all) it is usually pure opposites that attract – even if is two small, minor elements embedded within that energy, that are seeking a polar opposite to unite with.
I must also say that it may very well happen that some gay men would say, ‘wait a minute, I’m not female-energy, I don’t feel that at all, this is all nonsense,’ or a lesbian: ‘I’m not male energy, I am definitely all woman!’ That may be so. Some of these gay men may inherently hold a more male energy of course, but is merely exploring in this incarnation a different aspect of maleness, to be perhaps totally immersed into the maleness to attend to some attribute of that side of his polarity which needed work (in this incarnation). It is the same for some female-aligned energies that are extruding themselves into a lesbian paradigm, into female bodies for sexual and romantic experiences in a more tender and gentle environment with other females, through which certain aspects of that female energy can be subtly and more sensitively refined.
At the end of the day, it’s simply the coming together, and exploring of one’s energy with another, and however that is translated in the physical, whether it’s with a penis or a vagina, it is ultimately of no importance. If doctrine and societal ‘norms’ have a problem with this, it is only because it does not understand what is actually taking place. The dogmatists and bigots in our world, who give gay people or transgender people or whoever, a hard time, will one day understand… when comes the time for them to take that spiritual step, and examine these experiential realties, this time from the other side!
These ideas may appear ‘controversial’ to some, and again I am sorry if it has offended. If so, or if it just doesn’t resonate, just move past it. Ignore it and be content with whatever does resonate with you. It’s all fine! :) But back to my friend. The preferred choices this time round for him were either to incarnate as this female energy in a female body (which he has been before, obviously) or, as a female energy in a male body, and to embrace a different experience. The latter obviously was what happened, and for him it has been a very tough road to travel.
Female energy in a male body: this is what he feels in his spiritual-self, and his emotional/energetic self. It is what we both believe is happening here. He is not in any way ‘effeminate’ – but ‘straight-acting’, to use gay parlance. And there isn’t a transgender issue with him either (transgenderism (sic?) is another topic); he is very comfortable being a male. He just feels that the spiritual ‘stuff’ of which he is made, is female oriented, in its refinement and inherent property, in condition and sensitivity, and he is articulating that in, and through, a male vehicle this time round. And because we are physically/psychologically the sum of our spiritual selves (what we bring in as our incarnated energy-self), we program this into our body and neurochemistry, thus his arriving spirit shaped the vehicle (the body) into what it was to become, even as it was developing embryonically in the womb. He chose to be gay, and so his body engineered itself to provide that experience.
This is not unusual, because we chose everything about ourselves before we incarnate. The body, and all its potentials and limitations, its environment, its geographical location, the culture/language/religion, our parents, family, and friends (often these are close spiritual groups that have incarnated together, and are working through karmic lessons). Basically, everything is pre-selected and agreed on. And being gay, for gay people, is probably the biggest and most profound of the choices they make, and the key focus of that lifetime.
So, there you have it. That is the theory I hold anyway. If you don’t believe it or understand it, that’s fine! :) But this is all inline with my own mediations on the matter, and from my own experiences being for so long around the homosexual paradigm – the gay ‘scene’ – for so many years, as kind of an objective outsider looking in. This is also what he thinks, and what, ultimately, we both feel is the truth at heart. But it’s all quite irrelevant what the truth is really. All that matters, and all that we need to understand, is, that we are all the same beings on this earth, learning not only how to love, but how to accept love. Sexuality is of no importance in the big scheme. For me and my friend it matters not at all.
What we have in our friendship is pretty incredible, and I cherish it. The thousands of talks we’ve had and experiences we’ve shared, all the laughs, and yes, some tears. And we’ve often wondered what our relationship would’ve been like if I’d chosen to be born gay, or if he had been a woman. That we feel would have been very interesting indeed!