Defining service for self vs. others

[Demeisen]

I’d like to hear your point of view about how to define service for self vs. others. Let’s imagine a situation like this:

Person A is doing humanitarian work because he feels compassion for those who are having challenging life situations. Person B is doing the exact same work, but he enjoys it because he likes to see the world and it’s generally making him feel more alive.
Technically, person B is doing it for his own reasons as he feels such work is giving him more satisfaction than other. Can we say person B is in service for self? How do you draw the line?

Every good deeds we do because we get satisfaction from it in a form or another. In one twisted point of view everything we do, we do for selfish reasons, even though the purpose of the act were altruistic.

- “I helped you because I liked to do so.”
- “I helped you because I wanted you to be happy.”

Notice: “I liked”, “I wanted”. Is absolute altruism even possible?

- “I helped you even though I didn’t want to.”

Could this be considered to be more service for others than the two examples above? The person didn’t want anything for him/herself.

If helping others would make you feel awful, nobody did good deeds. Even if sacrificing your own life for others, could you be absolutely altruistic or consider gaining some spiritual status as a compensation?

Thanks for reading

[donk]

I considered myself the most selfish person in the world a decade ago, when my closest friends told me: but you are so kind and giving and helpful and generous...

The difference is empathy...I had none, but was not in denial about it.

When I learned humility, empathy, and true responsibility, that is when I considered myself "service to others".

Your example might be even better if you used one like my case: I liked making other feel good. Not for them, for myself, it was just something to do...to make my world, my life, my experience better...the benefits to others was secondary, despite appearances otherwise.

I feel yours is not even close to gray area, person B is downright service to self, no question in my mind.

But that's the rub, it is only the act-er's mind that you can truly know....it's all about intent.

[Prodigal Son]

Person A is doing humanitarian work because he feels compassion for those who are having challenging life situations. Person B is doing the exact same work, but he enjoys it because he likes to see the world and it’s generally making him feel more alive.
Technically, person B is doing it for his own reasons as he feels such work is giving him more satisfaction than other. Can we say person B is in service for self? How do you draw the line?

There is nothing wrong with receiving satisfaction and/or fringe benefits from doing work to help others. To me, its all about intent. Your love is unconditional if you expect nothing in return, but if you give, you will receive back, it's just the nature of the universe.

Some of the greatest philanthropists in this world are also the most insidiously selfish mass murdering globalists... i don't think it will get them any points with the karma police :lol:

[Kryztian]

Both person A and B are both engaging in acts that are service to others.

I would encourage all people to spend some time volunteering, to helping others, and I would advise them to try and meet both A's and B's criterion: give genuine and meaningful assistance to other's and do it in a way that you can enjoy yourself. Not only should you look for enjoyment, you should look for challenges, for experiences that will help you grow. The more you get out of the process, the longer and more frequently you will do that work, and as you do more of that work, more people will benefit.

Now imagine if only one volunteer is need and both A & B apply, and B is chosen. If B knows A will do a much better job because B will be more focused on absorbing the free perks of the job, well then, that is a disservice to others, and one has clearly sacrificed service to others for service to self.

For the most part, these to objectives are not in conflict. Part of creating a service to others world, is creating situations where these two values do not come into conflict.

[Flash]

Person A is doing humanitarian work because he feels compassion for those who are having challenging life situations. Person B is doing the exact same work, but he enjoys it because he likes to see the world and it’s generally making him feel more alive.
Technically, person B is doing it for his own reasons as he feels such work is giving him more satisfaction than other. Can we say person B is in service for self? How do you draw the line?

There is nothing wrong with receiving satisfaction and/or fringe benefits from doing work to help others. To me, its all about intent. Your love is unconditional if you expect nothing in return, but if you give, you will receive back, it's just the nature of the universe.

Some of the greatest philanthropists in this world are also the most insidiously selfish mass murdering globalists... i don't think it will get them any points with the karma police :lol:

Approved and stamped by Flash lol.

Service to self will always to do thing for others only if there is something back in return. I could be in 2 years, 5 years, for those who plan further.

For example, you have meeting in business that are exclusively for business cards exchanges, while offering your services: 100% service to self with expectations of returns. Someone like Clinton or Obama might even expect something inreturn in a next life, if they are true wizards. THe Jihadist expect something in return in paradise with their 25 virgins. Their actions may look like and be thought of as astruistic (at least by their communities/countries/party), but in fact they are service to self.

Now, self can be extended to one's own community such as one own's family, own one's village. In collectivist societies (Middle East and all of Asia), they are flaberghasted at how individualistic we are out West, and they name it selfish.

However, try to get anything from those people if there is no return to themselves or their small collectivity, and good luck, you won't get much. Why, because these collectivities are their insurance for survival, for help when they will need it, so they behave in consequence, protecting it and giving only to this one, which will bring returns given some time.

You also have thousands of these behavior through those very good Christian/Muslims/Jews going to Church/Mosk/Synagogue on a regular basis. THey will only give to the members of their Church/Mosk/Synagogue, the rest of the world can almost rot. Those are all service to self attitudes even if withing the given community they look like good citizens. Why? Again based on expected returns.

It is almost automatic for those following that service to self path, they cannot not think/analyse/foresee the returns.

Service to others is when the intention is not geared towards results/gains for oneself or one extended self (community). It is literally selfless. One of these would be sacrificing for a sick child. It will never give you anything in return at first glance except maybe shared love. Yes it is your child, you do feel good by helping, but the returns are far in between in comparison with the investment of time and énergies made.

Another example of service to others is when you do something for somebody but they are not aware of it. Yet, it gave positive results for them, while just the joy of helping for you. Examples could be a good word for someone on a job or looking for a job, some people give their kidneys, some give their time whiile enjoying it too, some others give their life. Gandhi pretty much looked like service to others to me. Sport coaches are often giving freely too, while enjoying it.

Service to others is thought of, analyse and processed when one want to maximize positive impact for someone else of for a group. For example, a psychologist will often think of ways to help its patient to improve faster or not to harm the process. Often they will pay for help to give in return to their patients (courses, other therapists, etc), even if it is part of their job, they do more than required.

Otherwise, service to others is often responding to the needs that are there, with a plain intention to help. Often it is not thought of, it just happens.

Service to others is letting the flow of life run through you and expanding on others, letting the flow of love express itself through you, expanding on others, naturally.

[markpierre]

Whats the point of this? To police what you do? Service to anything for any reason is service to Self.
Judgement is disservice.

[christian]

If helping others would make you feel awful, nobody did good deeds. Even if sacrificing your own life for others, could you be absolutely altruistic or consider gaining some spiritual status as a compensation?

Service to others shouldn't be disservice to self... I don't see how STO should be some kind of self-denial. How could a person that denies himself what he needs for himself be a good helper for others? I wouldn't want to be around such a person, I find that attitude quite disturbing.

STS: Indulge yourself, even at the expense of others.
STO: Empower yourself and others.

You can't really support the empowerment of others if you're not first empowered yourself.

[CD7]

The biggest service to self act tht one can engage in is the 'self' that is aware of its connection to the 'all' So that in serving others you are, in a sense, serving yourself! Always :)

[soleil]

when a person renounces all control over what happens and just helps others, without attachment, i believe that is true STO. its tough as a hypothetical question, because we cannot ask questions of the situations of each hypothetical person. idealy (to me) i believe STO is giving others your energy without concern for the outcome, of what good it will in turn do to you.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Some say that service to others is service to self unrealized. Once realized, there is only self.

[thalox]

i love this thread. i tend to believe that i do service to others. only because my intent is to help them. not to help me. i feel that it is what is needed to be done and not something i want to do. for example, I see someone struggling in something (be at work or outside in the world.) , i see them and my first thought is, why do i need to help them, that is them on their own growth and who am i to tell them what is right and wrong in their own world? but something comes over me and tells me "you must help them so they can better themselves." i struggle with not wanting to help them so they can all live their own paths because no one really helps me in my life so i am returning that favor of leaving them free to make their own choices. but in the end i help them and try to teach them how to do things better/faster and easier. so because my first thought is "i don't want to help them. let them figure it out." and then i end up helping them against my own free will anyways, i think i am doing a Service to Others.

i hope i explained that right.

[Fred Steeves]

I find it works a whole lot easier and simpler to not spend much time with examples, definitions and explanations. The important thing is that there is a limitless free flow of energy in this Universe which we have forgotten we are a part of, and our time is much better spent on getting more and more in sync with that energy, like moving to a rhythm.

Everything we can sense and beyond is a part of this, but each time we try to define it and such, we have just succeeded in limiting the limitless, as far as we're concerned anyway.

This non-defined rhythm is where the action is, and the more we practice and play with it day by day, the more it begins to resemble the interaction between Fred Astaire and Rita Hayworth in the video below.

5cHjqWfd9x0

P.S. Did ya'll find yourselves grooving and tappin to that one? That's what I'm talkin about. (LOL)

[enfoldedblue]

Gee we're such a wise bunch :) . My perspective has been stated by others here, but I'll say it in my way to further enrich to the idea.

Beneath the surface we are connected in unity. Disharmony is part of the illusion or distortion we experience here on the surface level. When we reconnect with our deepest aspects of self there is no difference between STS and STO.

The martyr is old paradigm. When we are in true alignment we flow from a space of unity that is a joy to operate from.

[Bubu]

I do everything for myself. I do service to others because I enjoy it. I want to see my children happy because that makes me happy as well.

Go ahead ask yourself what is the reason for any action you or anyone do. And then follow up with a question "why". I will bet anyone it ends to "because it makes me happy".

The most important lesson I thought my children. Meaning if any of your efforts makes you feel bad. The H*** leave :wizard:

[Flash]

Nature, I have seen some people doing things for others and it did not make them happy, it was extremely difficult, yet they did it because it was needed for the other safety/development.

I have seen people saving lifes to the risk of their own life, they were not happy, it just had to be done. Afterward they were in shock having about lost their own life in the process.

What you are saying is not always the case. Gandhi was happy to go to jail? Manning too?? They were thinking of the bigger picture for others and they followed their conscience.

[NancyV]

I have never used the STO designation because in my opinion, as several others have stated, everything I do is service to self. The STO designation seems silly and superfluous to me.

I CAN'T do anything that is ONLY service to others because I have to desire to do something, choose to do something before doing it, whether it makes me happy or not. Mother Theresa wanted to help others. She was doing what she wanted to do....service to self. Jesus wanted to help others... service to self. He CHOSE to sacrifice himself for others (if the stories are true)... service to self.

Of course ultimately there is only SELF or GOD, so all service to anyone or anything, including yourself, is service to God/SELF. We just like to separate ourselves here and pretend that we are serving others. Maybe it makes us feel more noble, compassionate and proud, and I've sure seen a lot of people use it as a way to make people feel guilty by telling them that they should serve others more. If more people knew that everything they do is to serve themselves they actually might enjoy helping their other selves (other people) more.

[GarethBKK]

As several others have suggested in this thread, an aware response is: "I helped you because I had an intuitive knowing that it was the thing to do."

The motivation to act for the awakened consciousness is Love - not the sticky human love but the divine love that is synonymous with divine Justice, which sees all things inseparable and equal. How Love moves the human to act is divine will. It does not need to be questioned; it simply is. The more a human awakens to the divinity within, the more Love will direct any action, irrespective of illusions of a personal agenda. Go with the flow, and avoid nothing.

[araucaria]

This being Law of One terminology, here is a definition from the horse's mouth :) Starting at 8:50.


Hi folks
Ordered the books last year and read them. Some bits took a couple of readings but its important stuff. Heres a video of Carla.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y79dX5SJHDY

Love out
Muzz

[Bubu]

Nature, I have seen some people doing things for others and it did not make them happy, it was extremely difficult, yet they did it because it was needed for the other safety/development.

I have seen people saving lifes to the risk of their own life, they were not happy, it just had to be done. Afterward they were in shock having about lost their own life in the process.

What you are saying is not always the case. Gandhi was happy to go to jail? Manning too?? They were thinking of the bigger picture for others and they followed their conscience.

Hello Flash,
How did you feel how others feel for you to say they are not happy.
It might look difficult for them physically but inside they are happy. nobody will know except the person.
At times I do something for some people, my children most of the time, that makes me feel not so good but I figured that if I do not do it I will be more miserable, conscience. So yes I do everything to feel good/better. All people do.

[sirdipswitch]

I am really selfish, for I really enjoy helping others. And helping others, without their knowledge of it, really makes me all warm and fuzzy.:wizard::wizard::wizard: