I asked for an OBE, and guess what...!

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

I've had numerous experiences in the areas of the spiritual and paranormal - and abductions, or I prefer to say 'visitations', by extra-terrestrial beings of different types, and over a long period of years. But an actual OBE... nope! I know they happen. I know that I have had many (after all I believe we experience them on a daily/nightly basis when we sleep), but apart from one strange and quite different incident as a child, I have NEVER been able to do this, willingly, consciously, and/or never been able to remember them happening. Until... duh-duh-duh! LAST NIGHT!

I'm still really quite in awe of it. What was very interesting was, as it happened / was happening, I was aware that this was a familiar process, in that I've done this countless times before, even though I couldn't actually remember any of those times... it was only at the moment when I was in the experience did I remember the familiarity of the experience, if that makes any sense at all.

Anyway, I will tell in brief how this happened for the general interest and potential benefit of those who enjoy the subject and these kinds of experiences. And I would of course be very interested in further clarification on a few things, if anyone, that is, has more experience with OBEs and has some insight to offer.

I was asleep. Deep asleep I assume, as I remember nothing beforehand. Then suddenly, without actually being 'awake', ie conscious with eyes open, I became all of a sudden aware of being conscious, though my body (physically) was still asleep. And then the feeling of a vibration, or strange electrical kind of throb enveloping me, and 'WHOOOOSH'! It was like a vacuum cleaner swooped in and literally sucked me out of bed, out of body, through the wall, and into some 'other' space, without sight or sound or anything I could perceive. But I perceived myself! This was the amazing thing. I was conscious, consciously aware that I was conscious, just like I am right now. I was thinking, wow! This is incredible, what is happening here, where am I going, what's going to happen?

Because I really could feel MOTION. I was moving, being drawn along by some 'other force' (it did not seem voluntary), it was almost how I imagine a leaf to feel caught in the strong current of a fast-moving stream. And this is where I began to think, 'Abduction'. This is it, they are taking me again. It's been a long time. Who is it now, what are they going to show me?

I have been asking a lot of questions to myself lately. Owing to the thread on OBEs I had begun in the last few weeks to tentatively try and induce an OBE during meditation, and prior to going to sleep. And without success. But these questions… I’d been asking to see past life memories, things to do with Atlantis which I've always been very interested in, and such like. So this was a response of sorts, I assume. Finally, something is happening!, I thought. But I hadn't induced it, this was all happening spontaneously and did not seem to be controlled by me. So an outside force was at work, hence the notion of 'Abduction'. An astral abduction. But who, and where to? I felt NO FEAR. Not a jot of it. I just enjoyed the ride. But I saw nothing for a while. It was as if my 'astral eyes' were shut.

The next thing I remember… well it could only have been a dream. It had the disjointed, non-linear, and very abstract qualities of a dream (which was kind of disappointing as I was hoping to actually 'go somewhere' and have an actual experience). But it was a dream in the silliest sense. I did encounter some 'beings' that were well, just crazy looking. But seemed so veeery real at the time. Everything felt very real, and I think that is because how the dream was activated: I was, more or less, actually conscious, and thinking-aware, when entering into this Dreamtime place. So the quality of all that I saw, and heard, and touched in this environment, had a very textural and lucid feel to it.

I'll tell of one such sequence in the dream. I was walking through a parkland area in town (a place local and familiar to me) but this place did not actually look like this - even though (from the dream's perspective, I recognised it and knew exactly where I was). In reality, this place looks nothing like what I saw in the dream, thus I knew at the time it was a dream (this was a dream where you know you are in a dream).

Ultimately, the dream ended pretty abruptly. It drew to a close whilst I was in some kind of strange library, and I was just thumbing through a book that, in the dream, I thought existed in reality (it was a book all about the Third-Reich and secret anti-gravity technology they had been developing), and I thought to myself, wow, I've been looking for this book for years and here it is, right here, at last! (of course later, on waking, I knew there is no such book, I had never heard of it). And then 'WHOOOOSH!' The sensation of immediate and stunning displacement, infinitely fast velocity again, and BAM! I was in my bed, eyes wide open. I remember sitting up, and said aloud to the wall, 'What the f*** was that!' I smiled. Because, I remembered pretty much everything. I'd had an OBE - that took me into the Dreamtime - and back again. In fact it was still dark, I had only been 'asleep' for an hour, even though it felt like several had passed.

Conclusion.
**********

This was not a ‘meditative OBE’, when one reaches a deep state of mediation and literally travels out of the body and embarks on an astral adventure. We all undergo OBEs, I think, when we enter the dream state. The difference here being, when I had this nightly OBE to visit the dream state, I was aware of it. And that is a first for me. I theorize that what happened here is, when we enter a deep state of sleep, prior to REM sleep, we leave our bodies in an astral form, and travel to a kind of plasticky astral space where dreams are played out. Plasticky in the sense that it is easily malleable to thought and intention, and we project those thoughts and intentions into it. This is the Dream-place. Our subconscious (beyond our conscious control) will construct a framework, and an environment, for us to enter in and play out the dream. Oftentimes a lot of the (sometimes bizarre) images we see and sequences we experience are shaped by background 'junk' that our subconscious has collected, such as underlying thoughts, fears, emotions, things we encounter and have recorded in our daily lives, that perhaps may not even make any sense.

This is what happens to us all, I think. The only difference in my experience last night was, I remember the point of separation, and transportation to this mental, astral space. The timing here is everything, because I had been asking (spirit, my guides, my subconscious) for this to happen, and I had at intervals attempted astral projection. I’d even just last week had a long conversation about OBEs and what it must be like, with my sister. Until now, however, these fumbling attempts to produce an OBE had only met with failure. I have a hard time concentrating when I meditate. I live on a busy road, and the sound of traffic constantly distracts me. I am one who needs complete quiet to properly meditate. Even with earplugs (which I invested in to help), do not properly blanket the noise of cars rushing by day and night. I also think my spirit guides know quite well of this frustration (and the fact that I'm often not a patient sort lol, and not very disciplined when it comes to meditation). So on this occasion I think they stepped in, and gave me a bit of a spiritual piggy-back; helped me to be consciously awake and aware of the process (the dream was my own to invent, as I did), and then the subsequent return, and to remember all of it in lucid detail. I thank them for that indeed! It was quite a rush. Now I'm hoping it will happen again, to gain further experience with it, and perhaps, eventually, punch through the Dream-place, and into other, higher expressions, and even other dimensional realities.

[Spiral of Light]

Thanks for sharing the details of that experience, Star Mariner.

I'm still working on remembering my own OBE's. Of course, I know I'm out there every night doing something because I usually wake up feeling that I've been busy all night long.

The points you have shared here might help me with my own remembrances.

[Jake]

Hello, StarMariner... I don't really have time to do this post justice,, But I have to say,,, WWWWOOOOOWWWWW..... and congratulations. Everything changes now,, at least perceptionally... You can walk in a space of 'knowing' rather than suspecting... :)

Welcome to the club...

Jake.

[sirdipswitch]

Way to go Star Mariner!! And welcome to ranks of OBE'ers. If you would like the simple answer of what it's all about, go to my thread: "The Secret Of The Soul, and OBE". Lots of simple answers there. ccc. (little chuckles. ccc.)

Yer right, we all do this every night but most don't remember. I have been "remembering" now for almost 3 years. I do instant out. Instant back. Anytime, I wish. Multiple times /day and night. Thousands of hours of it. So cool when ya learn how.ccc.

[Lifebringer]

Looks like your walls of programmed denial of the book you were in search of, put you back because you no longer believed, "it/book" existed, and therefore the faith of it/timeline created in search of it, then a choice to deny it, was taken back to the physical.

At least it sounds that way.

Faith means to believe, you lost faith in the existence of the book in the other time/dimension, and were taken back to where ego could accept the choice.

Hmmm... have faith in what you asked about led by the higher self in answer, and hold to it until you return, and remember, your higher self connected, would not lie to you about this book.

Maybe connected to your mission here? I don't know, but the message is clear to me. I wouldn't deny what the higher self says or shows exists in another realm.

[ghostrider]

well done, soon no one will be able to misdirect you on matters, you alone will be able to look at the past , or current goings on and see for yourself what is actually happening ... it is the greatest weapon of truth for an indivdual , seeing behind the curtain gives you advantage without an adversary knowing where and what you can look at ...

[Ernie Nemeth]

Congrats, StarMariner!

So much to discover, so much work to do. Makes one realize why sentient beings in their pristine state live hundreds of years....childhood lasts almost as long as the length of our entire lives! Of course in an advanced society learning would be guided and knowledge would be uncorrupted, knocking off decades of going down dead ends and vetting information, basically unlearning falsehoods in order to relearn the truth.

Nice talent to develop. One day I'll focus in this area as well. Happy travels!

[Youniverse]

Thanks for sharing StarMariner! Funny I should read your post today of the many posts on the forum. We are both 41 years of age and I have been reading a book very much about the anti-gravity technology the Nazis developed. Lol! Have you heard of Secret Journey to Planet Serpo? Maybe that's the book in your dream? Lol!

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Thanks very much for the replies! I know exactly what you mean Spiral of Light, in that I very often wake with the 'thought' that during the night I've seen something, been somewhere etc, but it's very frustrating remembering nothing of it. But I really have no idea why the other night I just spontaneously remembered all of a sudden. I 'willed' it to happen last night as well, but alas no joy.

But I'm hoping to understand more about what exactly is happening during an 'OBE-whilst-asleep' phenomenon. Why was it that I felt as though the process was being directed/guided by another force (rather than my own will)? Why did I lucid dream? I'm wondering if it's possible to be fully consciously aware during this state, to float freely and go wherever you want. That's what I hope for. Is this what some of you guys can do?


Way to go Star Mariner!! And welcome to ranks of OBE'ers. If you would like the simple answer of what it's all about, go to my thread: "The Secret Of The Soul, and OBE". Lots of simple answers there. ccc. (little chuckles. ccc.).

I've scanned through the thread before, but will be giving it a good read now, from beginning to end!

That's an interesting interpretation of the book Lifebringer, I hadn't thought of that. I'm trying to figure out if that could be the case, regarding my denial of this book (which, by the way, strange as it sounds, was written by JRR Tolkien). This book just happened to be an object of interest during the dream, rather than a focus of it, I feel. Sure, I have for many years been interested in that particular topic, and there's nothing per se, with regards to Nazi flying saucers/anti-gravity/recovered alien tech etc, that I reject or dismiss. In fact I perused that book with great interest in the dream, but was dumped back into the physical just as it was getting interesting.

I'll tell you another detail I didn't mention. Whilst I was reading it in the library, there was a being sitting opposite. A very strange being, who seemed to have a snout shaped head, almost like a humanoid dog or horse-headed being of some type. Very hard to describe. More so when I can't for the life of me remember what the eyes looked like, or any other aspect, just that nose/snout/head shape. Anyway, I was asking it many questions about this book, and other topics. She then said (I perceived this being to be a she, don't know why), that there was a machine they had in another room nearby, that 'they' could hook up for me. Once connected to this 'machine', I could ask it any question I wanted, and the answer would be given. It was at that moment, as she was saying this, and whilst I was standing by the bookshelf reading this book (this very large book on Nazi anti-gravity tech, the title being, I now remember: "J.R.R. Tolkien, and What He Knew About the Third Reich"), that I went tumbling back into my body. Which was very frustrating. I really wanted to experience that machine!

But the book.. meh who knows. I really have no idea. I have never heard that JRR Tolkien was ever involved with studying any aspect of Nazism, Hitler, the Third Reich, or secret war technology. The only connection I ever heard of was when the Nazi propaganda machine went to work in the war and, owing to the great popularity of Tolkien and 'The Hobbit', at the time, there was some contact between the two, the Nazis trying to enlist the support of Tolkien because he had a Germanic name. Tolkien of course wanted nothing to do with them, and shot them down in flames straight away. Tolkien was a devout Catholic as well, and I'm sure the notion of flying saucers and the like would have been hard for him to swallow. I dunno, I think Tolkien having penned this dream-book was just a projection by my own subconscious, him being a favourite author of mine.

An interesting mystery.

I still can't figure it out. Was it a dream, purely just a dream, or something more than that, an actual contact on some level, but my subconscious was the architect and builder of the space in which this contact took place? Much of the contact essence of the experience makes sense, and seems so real, but the dream imagery involved such typical abstracts of a crazy, nonsensical dream. So I'm at a loss really.


Have you heard of Secret Journey to Planet Serpo? Maybe that's the book in your dream? Lol!

Yes indeed, I've read about Serpo, the ET world which a group of army personnel visited for a number of years back in the 60s and 70s, right? There were some alleged diary entries of the mission commander floating around a while back, which I read. It was fascinating stuff, but didn’t come with much corroboration. Fiction or fantasy (disinfo), who knows? It was another one of those things that the minds just pigeon-holes at the time, puts a pin in, for later reference.

[Jake]

But I'm hoping to understand more about what exactly is happening during an 'OBE-whilst-asleep' phenomenon. Why was it that I felt as though the process was being directed/guided by another force (rather than my own will)? Why did I lucid dream? I'm wondering if it's possible to be fully consciously aware during this state, to float freely and go wherever you want. That's what I hope for. Is this what some of you guys can do?

Hello, StarMariner!! :)

Please allow me to attempt a coherent answer for you. This is my take on it, based on my own experiences. First off,,, Awesome OBE!! Lots of implications there!! Our minds, and the way in which consciousness creates our reality have different aspects to it. We have our 'waking mind', our 'dreaming mind' and our 'sleeping mind'. None of these states of mind are the WHOLE mind, only aspects. Your 'dreaming mind' is always in there, dreaming. (Even now..) It is working things out, the best way that it can. Is it YOU, no,,, is it an aspect of you, YES.. Your 'dreaming mind' is vaguely aware of YOU,, (waking mind). It may even think that you are GOD or HIGHER SELF. Your 'waking mind' is the YOU that is awake, reading this post right now. Is it YOU, no,, is it an aspect of you,, yes... The sleeping mind, is the 'higher self' that is looking in and trying to understand. We (waking self) are vaguely aware of higher self (just as the dreaming mind is vaguely aware of a waking mind)... Some folks think it is god, some folks just say HIGHER SELF.

How many dreams have you had, where you did not know that it was a dream?? Most of them, I assume. You simply wake into physical reality and say,,, 'whew,, what a dream'.

How many dreams have you had, where the memory of it 'disappears' from your psyche, even while you were remembering it??

Now,,, how many lucid dreams have you had?? You see, when you bring you LUCIDITY with you, into the dreamstates, you push aside your 'dreaming mind' and use the full reasoning of your waking mind whilst still in the dream. You consciousness is expanding!! You know that it is a dream!!!

Here is the crux... Waking physical reality is just another level of the dream. Waking consciousness is just another level of SELF. A dream within a dream within a dream. Maybe not the answer you were hoping for.

(I stood up, after meditating, once and became completely lucid and aware,, IN PHYSICAL REALITY!!) There are more levels. Become aware in THIS dream,, and the game changes!!! We are just beginning to look into ourselves and unravel the mystery. merrily merrily merrily merrily.....

Try and keep in mind that an OBE can be remembered via the dreamstates. (ie,, many OBEs will be remembered as a dream.) Once your memory function begins to encompass dreams/OBEs/realities,,, then you can begin to see it for what it really is!!

Yes, it is a memory problem. Yes, physical waking reality is more like a dream than we have yet to embrace. Consciousness emanates outward in spheres of knowing, wave after wave. Creation and experience happen simultaneously. The whole of physical reality is only patterns of potential that only come to life when animated by consciousness. Having a 'dreaming mind' a 'waking mind' and a 'sleeping mind' creates a nice trinity, a platform to experience and create.

The sleeper must awaken!!! Become lucid in THIS dream,,, that is a game changer...

Jake.

P.S. You must must must must check out SIRDIPSWCH's discussion on these matters. We have an amazing resourse in our SIRDIPITTY!!! :):):)

check it out here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51152-The-Secret-Of-The-Soul-and-OBE)...

[Youniverse]

Yeah I'll echo the recommendation to check out Sirdipswitch's Secret of the Soul thread. Quite a lot of discussion there on OBE's.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Thanks for that Jake, awesome!

There was one other thing, possibly prophetic from the original dream that I remember, maybe not worth mentioning, as prophetic stuff can just often stem from subconsciously stored fears/emotions/per-conditioning/daily experience and input etc. I didn’t mention it before because I thought it would be silly. But here it is, hey-ho...

In the part where I mentioned I was walking through an unfamiliar (but familiar in the dream) area of town, I entered a park surrounded by normal city buildings, a wide green grassed area where kids play and people usually walk their dogs. The being with the snout face was with me, walking some paces ahead. I was following. The grass was long, overgrown and wild. I saw great weeds growing unchecked, and tall thistles, the sort you might find in any field (not a public park) if there was no one there to tend them. I knew what I was seeing, it was a vision, a symbol of degradation, of normal day-to-day, business-as-usual living, that had changed (broken down). Perhaps an abandonment, or a collapse in the common order, manifested here by everything appearing to have been left to ‘run wild, out of control’ and ‘getting all overgrown’.

I then noticed two people who were, actually, walking a dog as if everything was normal, as if the park was not in disarray and completely as they’d expect to find it. They were weird, almost ghost-like, for at no time did they notice us walking past them (as if we weren’t there).

Anyway, I asked the being, 'is this the future?', as I very lucidly remember brushing past this enormous, 4ft thistle.
'Yes', she replied.
'How long', I asked.
'Seven weeks'.

That was all that happened in the park. I don't remember what happened next. But 7 weeks! That would put it at week beginning: October 20th. Well, this is why I did not say anything in the original post, because it sounded ridiculous. If it was (as is likely) just a projection/invention of my own mind, it means nothing, so no need to worry, if not, then my god I don't know what to think. Something 'kicking off' around the 3rd week of october??

[Jake]

Thanks for that Jake, awesome!

There was one other thing, possibly prophetic from the original dream that I remember, maybe not worth mentioning, as prophetic stuff can just often stem from subconsciously stored fears/emotions/per-conditioning/daily experience and input etc. I didn’t mention it before because I thought it would be silly. But here it is, hey-ho...

In the part where I mentioned I was walking through an unfamiliar (but familiar in the dream) area of town, I entered a park surrounded by normal city buildings, a wide green grassed area where kids play and people usually walk their dogs. The being with the snout face was with me, walking some paces ahead. I was following. The grass was long, overgrown and wild. I saw great weeds growing unchecked, and tall thistles, the sort you might find in any field (not a public park) if there was no one there to tend them. I knew what I was seeing, it was a vision, a symbol of degradation, of normal day-to-day, business-as-usual living, that had changed (broken down). Perhaps an abandonment, or a collapse in the common order, manifested here by everything appearing to have been left to ‘run wild, out of control’ and ‘getting all overgrown’.

I then noticed two people who were, actually, walking a dog as if everything was normal, as if the park was not in disarray and completely as they’d expect to find it. They were weird, almost ghost-like, for at no time did they notice us walking past them (as if we weren’t there).

Anyway, I asked the being, 'is this the future?', as I very lucidly remember brushing past this enormous, 4ft thistle.
'Yes', she replied.
'How long', I asked.
'Seven weeks'.

That was all that happened in the park. I don't remember what happened next. But 7 weeks! That would put it at week beginning: October 20th. Well, this is why I did not say anything in the original post, because it sounded ridiculous. If it was (as is likely) just a projection/invention of my own mind, it means nothing, so no need to worry, if not, then my god I don't know what to think. Something 'kicking off' around the 3rd week of october??

Hello SM... Definitely keep an eye on this one. I never discount dreams. Even if they are subconsciously stored fears/emotions/per-conditioning/daily experience and input etc... They are still relevant. Hidden treasures in there. :) Seven weeks is quite an exact response! Keep a sharp eye on what happens. Generally 'time' is not such a major factor in dreaming/OBE experiences. However, specific references to time DO exist within the dreaming domain. So it can all be interpreted in different ways. A prophetic dreaming experience could be a message for the plight of humanity, or it could be specific to YOU and your situation.

Also, when you asked 'is this the future?', You were intending an answer regarding the overgrown foliage,, but I suspect something different. I suspect that you stumbled upon a much higher level of Astral experience! Astral 'parks' or 'cities' are a common theme among Astral Travelers who do not dwell in the 'etheric' realm. The astral 'proper' is much less dense, and will be more like an intense/spiritual Lucid Dream, than an OBE. My guess is that you have until Oct 20th to begin to 'set the stage' for higher spiritual experiences. Because they are coming!! :) OBEs and all. That is my take on it. For what it is worth, I am not a guru or self appointed expert in this. I only have my experiences. Keep us updated. This type of expansion of consciousness is what we try and champion here!!

Cheers,
Jake.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Thanks Jake!

Ever since this night I've been asking, willing it to happen again, and trying to meditate, to induce another experience - as yet without luck. I feel it's possible that more will come. And I say this because deep down I do feel that the experience of that night was instigated, driven, by some other force (which is why at the beginning I thought 'Abduction'), because it felt like a higher guiding hand was at play in literally ‘spiriting me away’ to somewhere else.


Astral 'parks' or 'cities' are a common theme among Astral Travelers who do not dwell in the 'etheric' realm. The astral 'proper' is much less dense, and will be more like an intense/spiritual Lucid Dream, than an OBE.

Well that's interesting, because I am convinced that this was not a normal dream at all, it was unlike any dream I have ever had – very different in quality. It’s hard to define, words fall short. The fact I remember vividly leaving my body, and being transported to this ‘other place’ tells me it was definitely not a normal nightly dream scenario.


My guess is that you have until Oct 20th to begin to 'set the stage' for higher spiritual experiences. Because they are coming!! :) OBEs and all. That is my take on it. For what it is worth, I am not a guru or self appointed expert in this. I only have my experiences. Keep us updated. This type of expansion of consciousness is what we try and champion here!!

You think? That would be awesome. I have asked this benevolent force that I feel is guiding this (even if it is my higher self behind it all) for further information, and clarification. I definitely seek more. How might I set the stage though, meditation? And if this is what the imagery was trying to tell me, I’m unsure what the wild, overgrown park signifies. But thanks again for your continued input here Jake, it’s much appreciated, and I will definitely keep you apprised if anything else happens!

[sirdipswitch]

SEVEN WEEKS??? hmm!!! oct. 20??? hmm!!! Something so "specific", is not usually given!!! hmm...

On the brite side though, George tells me that the future, is not... carved in stone. Even that given by credible prophets. The very second that we hear of something, we set in motion that which we need to change them. So... keep yer fingers crossed!
That we may... ccc.

[GloriousPoetry]

Star Mariner,

Congrats on your incredible dream journey. I feel I have the natural ability to experience an OBE during the waking state without having to meditate but I am still too frighten of the experience. A few years ago I felt that it almost happened and I was left in a space of limbo for 45 minutes. My fear is not having control over it.......especially if it were to happen during working hours but I guess I do have control over it if it hasn't happened during inconvenient moments.

When it almost happened a few years ago I intuitively felt that if I were to have let go completely I would have experienced an incredible oneness with the universe...almost like a rapture of some kind..... an expansion that would flow and flow.....

How do you overcome the fear or illusion of not having control?

[camper]

Hi folks, I'm kind a new to the forum and don't know if I can start a thread yet but this looks like a good place to ask a question that I have been wanting to know for many months now. It's part of the reason I was hoping to be accepted to Project Avalon. I don't know how to prepare for an obe, but I read a statement from a book that was on line that said you could just say over and over, I will go out of body for like a month and there you go your off. well I did that and what happens is as I lay there I can feel my whole inside of my body move like there is something trying to get out! My arms and legs actually move up and down and side ways, I'm saying the God's truth! I can feel it start in my legs then move to my hips and stomach, then my arms' my feet and hands stay in one position as I move around. I have never left my body. Is something bad happening to me? Should I stop? It is quite scary. Like I said I have been doing this for three maybe four months now is this how it starts! I feel like I'm in a sci-fi movie. Hope you all can help me thanks!

[GloriousPoetry]

Camper,
Ask yourself from your deepest and highest place....your soul....what is this that is happening to me and you will get your answer and intuitively you will know what to do......... if you are ready I think you will experience what you are ready to experience if not then that is okay too......I believe there are higher aspects of ourselves taking care of us on this physical level.....we forget that we are bigger than what we believe to be here.

Hope this helps....

[Jake]

Bump.... 4 more weeks, StarMariner!!! :)

Camper, whenever I am trying to 'set the stage' for OBE, I always have a book on hand about OBEs. Buhlman, Monroe, Bruce, Mouldoon/Carrington,, etc... It keeps my mind in that 'fascinated' state, and sometimes it is the difference between being able to focus or not. The OBE is a perfectly natural function of the human experience. Everybody is in the (albeit different levels) Astral, once the appropriate level of sleep occurs. It may be different for each of us. I is more of an ability to drop into trance without loosing conscious awareness. For many of us, waking up into astral states or astral projections in progress, is quite common. Being aware of sleep paralysis, and the level in which that occurs for you will be important. (sleep paralysis happens to all of us when we sleep, it is the bodies way of keeping us from thrashing around, while we dream.) Mind/Awake Body/Asleep,, That is the basic formula. Whatever you have to do for yourself, to create those conditions, go for it. It is the perfect state in which to experiment, with regards activation of the pineal gland. The pineal gland is a light sensitive vestige. Some say it is left over from a time when we only had a single eye, that eventually gave way to set of 'lesser' eyes, and retreated into the body, acting as the primary doorway that leads to transcendental, enlightened experiences. It is the 3rd eye, literally.

Never tell yourself that you can't do it. Because wether or not you tell yourself that you CAN or you CAN'T,, you are right. :):):)

Gook luck, and keep us posted.

Jake.

[camper]

Thanks for your advice gloriouspoetry and Jake. As long as I know that all that moving around inside my body isn't something evil I will most certainly keep trying. You will be the first to know when I make it!!!