What do you see in this design?

[xthesurge0nx]

Does anyone else see what I see...


http://anony.ws/i/2013/09/06/9m7Wn.png

http://www.drjoye.com/images/rikclay2012-olympics_img_22.jpg

http://anony.ws/i/2013/09/06/Q0CfP.png

https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1378160699396.png

https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1378426808666.png

https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1378426808666.png

Rik Clay - The complete 4 hour interview - Zion 2012 Olympics


WjWhB9ryLec

[thunder24]

I see an eagle or phoniex with the instruments of sound to create, coming out of its head....

two wood peckers with their beeks pulling back the pages on the book of life, to reveal a shamrock.

With the shamrock are two large daffodils with dandelions coming out from behind both of them, in turn looking like larger wings...

in between them are the eagle and instruments for sound that creates....

So as above so below.... thats what I see.

What do you see?

PEACE

[xthesurge0nx]

I see an eagle or phoniex with the instruments of sound to create, coming out of its head....

two wood peckers with their beeks pulling back the pages on the book of life, to reveal a shamrock.

With the shamrock are two large daffodils with dandelions coming out from behind both of them, in turn looking like larger wings...

in between them are the eagle and instruments for sound that creates....

So as above so below.... thats what I see.

What do you see?

PEACE

I see Access denied from the website I uploaded the images to...


https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1378426900728.png

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Does anyone else see what I see...


http://anony.ws/i/2013/09/06/9m7Wn.png

http://www.drjoye.com/images/rikclay2012-olympics_img_22.jpg

http://anony.ws/i/2013/09/06/Q0CfP.png

https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1378160699396.png

https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1378426808666.png

Rik Clay - The complete 4 hour interview - Zion 2012 Olympics


WjWhB9ryLec

that book you are referring to is very heavily biased , the star of david is not evil or seductive , thats total BS ... ( no offence to you )

Can i ask how are you bridging someones pass port with being a grey alien ? because of a picture in their pass port ? am i missing something ? respectfully

N

[thunder24]

Word...

I can't say Im necessarily surprised. Seems there is a push pull going on in the world today... All things are seen... All things are known... from multiple levels.

Be Peace is what I have to keep telling myself...

Good Luck getting back on that page...

peace

[xthesurge0nx]

"that book you are referring to is very heavily biased , the star of david is not evil or seductive , thats total BS ... ( no offence to you )

Can i ask how are you bridging someones pass port with being a grey alien ? because of a picture in their pass port ? am i missing something ? respectfully


(N, 2013)"


Respectfully...if you dont see what I see then you dont see it...I have to leave it at that...I give up trying to justify my thought pattern to people...with respect I have supplied what I see if you see it you see it if you dont you dont...

I got those Occult Symbols from a Satanic Ritual Sex Abuse case that was used to prosecute the murderers some time back...

[xthesurge0nx]

https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1378428333803.png

[xthesurge0nx]

From what I can see in the image I see the Root Chakra of the Extraterestrial is in the Crown Chakra of Satan...Im not religious so no religious motive...Im simply saying what I see...Im working from my Heart Chakra!!!

If you watch the following video it might help put things into perspective...


qhGaawoRuIY

https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1378431148296.png

https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1378479534683.png

[mojo]

not surprsing they might do something like that, hiding symbols in plain site.

[shadowstalker]

I don't see a grey I see a mantid or mantis, which is kinda odd, as I associate more with the greys.
Mind you I had to look real hard to find it tho'

[xthesurge0nx]

You see something though in reality?

[shadowstalker]

I see a lot...

But the problem, is ppl will try to connect dots where there are none and still make it work out..
I use to get all in to this kind of thing, then are started doing more open research and realized that symbols are neither good nor bad, and most older symbols have been hijacked to seem bad because of who hijacked them...

Like the upside down cross for instance is not satanic, the catholic church hijacked it and changed the meaning of it to frighten ppl, it is st. peters cross. The catholic church a few years ago finally confessed to the world that it is not satanic.. so even the bad guys where, shall we say, DOOPED?

The book your are using is not only out of date but in most cases, bogus to say the least..
Sorry...

Might i suggest that when you do your deep research that you counter it with meditation and laughter and spiritually (not religious) uplifting shows and videos and or books. It works, at least it does for me.. Don't let it take you, that's what they want, the only thing you need to do at this point is simply understand it as information. learn from it and grow, and when you are ready and if you wish take a break then start the cycle over again from a different less fearful perspective...

More later.. :cool:

P.S. You will be fine, so long as you allow it to be fine.

[gittarpikk]

I see somebody spilled the printer cartridge on a piece of paper and folded it...

[xthesurge0nx]

Ran through Paint.net Steganography Plugin RevealHiddenColor3Bit


https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1378434350933.png

Ran through Paint.net Steganography Plugin RevealHiddenColor1Bit


https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1378435054901.png

Ran through Paint.net Pencil Scetch Plugin


https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1378434464839.png

Sharpened and resized


https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1378435970839.png

Inverted Colors


https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1378437384894.png

[shadowstalker]

Might I also suggest: For starters (it's on several differnt threads here)
None religious, none fear based, very helpful, down to earth.

3 hours 43 minutes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L777RhL_Fz4[/url]

[Nanoo Nanoo]

From what I can see in the image I see the Root Chakra of the Extraterestrial is in the Crown Chakra of Satan...Im not religious so no religious motive...Im simply saying what I see...Im working from my Heart Chakra!!!

If you watch the following video it might help put things into perspective...


qhGaawoRuIY

https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1378431148296.png

yes i see the symbolism and its well spotted but i fail to see how this ties in with any grey green or purple et's ... are you telling us that having a chakra system means you are a grey et ?

and the video is heavily biased towards ritual majic.

all symbols are mostly directional at the hand of the user. The star of david and the pentacle can be used for good and bad just like a pen can be used to write a poem or stab a person. same thing .. the instrument is predominantly neutral till its used under intent.

the documents you supply are very biased in their representation.

N

[ghostrider]

I see a message , all flowers are good and beautiful , each connected to the other in the circle of life ...

[xthesurge0nx]

yes i see the symbolism and its well spotted but i fail to see how this ties in with any grey green or purple et's ... are you telling us that having a chakra system means you are a grey et ?



Im not telling you anything...im simply saying what I see...make of it what you do...if you see it then you see it...if you dont see it...you dont see it...



and the video is heavily biased towards ritual majic.


In your opinion, from your perspective, in your reality...



all symbols are mostly directional at the hand of the user. The star of david and the pentacle can be used for good and bad just like a pen can be used to write a poem or stab a person. same thing .. the instrument is predominantly neutral till its used under intent.


Thanks for that...and I agree...



the documents you supply are very biased in their representation.


Your glass in half empty...I have more...I just like this one its easy to read and to hand...it was used in South America I think...

If you want to attack everything youre more than welcome...dig out...

But let me tell what it looks like from the outside in...negativity and redirection...

[Nanoo Nanoo]

My dear friend i wish you well with your quest.

the question of bias is answered.

N

[shadowstalker]

xthesurge0nx
Why do you see what you see?

[xthesurge0nx]

xthesurge0nx
Why do you see what you see?

Because its there.

[Hazel]

As we say in Aus'..

"Naa Mate... naa..."

But I respect your perception(s).. and your work of inquiry beyond the facade.

H.

[xthesurge0nx]

As we say in Aus'..

"Naa Mate... naa..."

But I respect your perception(s).. and your work of inquiry beyond the facade.

H.

I respect your opinion...but I see what I see...

[shadowstalker]

xthesurge0nx
Why do you see what you see?

Because its there.

Yes my dear friend you are in the first stage of awakening, all the fear is rushing into you.
Might I make another suggestion?
Find a friend close by (if Possible) that has already gone through the process and is no long fear based?

Most of the good folks here on the forum has already gone through what you are going through, might I suggest listening to them as well?

It may help...

[xthesurge0nx]

There is no fear here only anger let me assure you...and you people should know better than anyone...just because you havent seen something yet doesnt mean it doesnt exist...

[shadowstalker]

There is no fear here only anger let me assure you...
Then replace the word fear with anger..
The advice and suggestion held to you (by many) still hold...

[xthesurge0nx]

My anger isnt in your direction...

[shadowstalker]

My anger isnt in your direction...

LOL I already know that, I'm not worried about it.

just because you havent seen something yet doesnt mean it doesnt exist...
That is very true, I say that to many.

But..... just because you can put dots together doesn't mean that that is what it really is...

You have to balance it all out...

[xthesurge0nx]

https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1378438832248.png

[xthesurge0nx]

But..... just because you can put dots together doesn't mean that that is what it really is...

You have to balance it all out...


Leave no stone unturned...

Its the continued secrecy thats making me angry...

[Nanoo Nanoo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFnFr-DOPf8


Its the continued secrecy thats making me angry...

[xthesurge0nx]

Thats the best ever comeback!!!



Anybody can become angry - that is easy, but to be angry with the right person and to the right degree and at the right time and for the right purpose, and in the right way - that is not within everybody's power and is not easy.

(Aristotle)




Usually when people are sad, they don't do anything. They just cry over their condition. But when they get angry, they bring about a change.

(James Russell Lowell)




A man that does not know how to be angry does not know how to be good.


(Henry Ward Beecher)

[shadowstalker]

The flower is starting to look like a mandala (just flip it)
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTnrZvXsbU7CW_gwQ8PwJeAdvHodgsg-Rqs8raRsyHHjtENATdn

the bottom is starting to look like a helmet
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSdrqDXASQcylkcErhi7aCu8leUFYnvBhe5J-l0ehf28UI70Plf

Must all dots be connected? ( just flip again)
http://www.kidsmathgamesonline.com/images/pictures/shapes/pentagon.jpg
Not the best renditions i was looking for but hey whatever, it works..


They are never going to let go there secrets....

[PHARAOH]

Dear Fellow, xthesurge0nx

Try not to waste too much of your valuable time and energy on 85% of those whom troll this forum. Do not even respond. For they are here, only to mock and ridicule those whom would expose their true state of being. Ignorance is bliss, and there, do they choose to remain. As you have just witnessed. We see, hear and speak to the dead, daily. If you have not come to this over-standing yet, you soon will. The blind, deaf and dumb will only accuse you of "Thinking your smarter, (better) then they are. This is how they turn the masses against you. Reveal your truths if you wish, but for the most part, you are casting pearls amongst swine.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Dear Fellow, xthesurge0nx

Try not to waste too much of your valuable time and energy on 85% of those whom troll this forum. Do not even respond. For they are here, only to mock and ridicule those whom would expose their true state of being. Ignorance is bliss, and there, do they choose to remain. As you have just witnessed. We see, hear and speak to the dead, daily. If you have not come to this over-standing yet, you soon will. The blind, deaf and dumb will only accuse you of "Thinking your smarter, (better) then they are. This is how they turn the masses against you. Reveal your truths if you wish, but for the most part, you are casting pearls amongst swine.

i dont think thats a very nice comment. Some on here who see a lot are wondering how this person can see a grey out of a fleur de lis ? if im missing it ( and i assume thats why this thread is here ) i can ask for clarification but the OP is being obscure about his/her clarification.

i cant get a straight answer so most would think its a joke.

N

[Nanoo Nanoo]

xthesurge0nx
Why do you see what you see?

now thats a good question.

N

[Billy]

Dear Fellow, xthesurge0nx

but for the most part, you are casting pearls amongst swine.[/COLOR]

From my perspective i do not see any pearls being cast, only fear, From your perspective you see Avalon members as Trolls and Swine.

Interesting perception

peace

[GlassSteagallfan]

xthesurge0nx:

Jonathan Kleck would probably have a field day with this!

His website is http://jonathankleck.com/

[xthesurge0nx]

xthesurge0nx
Why do you see what you see?

now thats a good question.

N

You wanna know why I see what I see truthfully...Please take into considertion Im not religious...

Some time back I asked the architect of the universe to show me guidance...to show me love...and to show me knowledge...

Then slowly over time I began to see things in everything...shapes, symbols...etc...



wondering how this person can see a grey out of a fleur de lis ? if im missing it ( and i assume thats why this thread is here ) i can ask for clarification but the OP is being obscure about his/her clarification.

i cant get a straight answer so most would think its a joke


I see what I see because its there...if you dont see it then you dont see it...I cant force you to see it...what I do know Nanoo is I watched you troll people on Youtube...

I have my guard up with you nanoo...from what I viewed of you on other forums. I believe you personally have other motives for your comments...I may be wrong...butI think you are workingfor someone or your generally just a troll...

Why would most think its a joke? Who are you to speak for most people? what gives you the right to speak for everyone...how about speaking for yourself and let the divine creator do the judging...people will think its a joke, thats junk data, I would throw that out with the counter intelligence...

Ive give you the diagrams...Ive shown you the lines...Ive pointed out in many different pictures what I see...Ive ran the images through Steganography software...etc etc...

Like I said if you see it you see it, if you dont see it then you dont see it...

What I did see was an attack as soon as I put the information up...I slept on it and read back through...guess what, what I could see was the same as what I could see yesterday...

Ive explained what I see...if you have an issue with that then Imnot the right person to tell you...I dont have the people skills required to deal with certain types of people and to be honest all Ive ever done in life is change for others, yet others dont change for me...

So like I said earlier...IF YOU SEE IT, THEN YOU SEE IT...IF YOU DONT SEE IT THEN YOU DONT SEE IT...THATS YOUR PROBLEM NOT MINE...

And I break codes for a living...Iman Ethical Hacker...to degree level...

[RMorgan]

In my opinion, this is simply Pareidolia (http://www.skepdic.com/pareidol.html).

Raf.

[xthesurge0nx]

In my opinion, this is simply Pareidolia (http://www.skepdic.com/pareidol.html).

Raf.

The skeptics dictionary...says everything I need to know...you just put things into perspective for me...

What I am seeing is everytime someone points to satanism and the occult...disillusion distract dismantle...


https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1378517573276.png

[RMorgan]

In my opinion, this is simply Pareidolia (http://www.skepdic.com/pareidol.html).

Raf.

The skeptics dictionary...says everything I need to know...you just put things into perspective for me...

What I am seeing is everytime someone points to satanism and the occult...disillusion distract dismantle...

Actually, this has nothing to do with the skeptics dictionary itself.

If you feel like it makes a difference, you may look for the word Pareidolia in other dictionaries or sources.

The fact is, our natural facial/familiar shape detection biological mechanism sometimes detects familiar shapes or faces where there´s actually nothing to be detected.

If you´re looking for alien faces or hidden symbols, you´ll indeed find them everywhere, which doesn´t necessarily means that your findings are accurate or represent reality.

Raf.

[xthesurge0nx]

In my opinion, this is simply Pareidolia (http://www.skepdic.com/pareidol.html).

Raf.

The skeptics dictionary...says everything I need to know...you just put things into perspective for me...

What I am seeing is everytime someone points to satanism and the occult...disillusion distract dismantle...

Actually, this has nothing to do with the skeptics dictionary itself.

If you feel like it makes a difference, you may look for the word Pareidolia in other dictionaries or sources.

The fact is, our natural facial/familiar shape detection biological mechanism sometimes detects familiar shapes or faces where there´s actually nothing to be detected.

If you´re looking for alien faces or hidden symbols, you´ll indeed find them everywhere, which doesn´t necessarily means that your findings are accurate or represent reality.

Raf.

I wasnt looking...I watched a video...went to check the photo and as soon as I looked at the picture it was there...it was in my face...I wasnt looking for symbols and patterns when I first opened the image...I could see it...I wasnt looking for Extraterrestrials...Ive been looking at Child Sacrifice...if anything I would be looking for Freemason or Occult symbolism...I wasnt looking for an Extraterrestrial...As soon as I typed into Google 1998 photo British passport the image just popped up...and it was in the thumbnail of the image I could see the clear image of an extraterrestrial...then I looked for Rik Clays analysis and overlayed what I could see...then it clicked...Rik Clay was right...

Please understand...Im not trying to make people see...Im simply saying what I see...maybe saying what you see would be more productive than attacking what I see...maybe a diagram would be helpful so I see what you see...then I can change my opinion to the data...if the data makes sense to me...

I have no issue changing my opinion if someone can come up with a solid alternative...if you can point out what you see, then that might help me understand from your understanding and perspective what your brain is telling you...

These people are using Steganography, Cryptography, Geometry, Symbolism and Numerology...to give examples...


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-b70IWeAr_Ik/UhRh2CfQZ5I/AAAAAAAADVs/HnJ-khT-S_M/w562-h507-no/cartoon-network-nickelodeon-illuminati-symbology.jpg


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-B6rdWkCetCg/UhRiL5Idk_I/AAAAAAAADYo/8lR1R953yLE/w716-h478-no/criss_angel-nwo3b.png

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3Zez4cqa-Ng/UhQxT_xO8iI/AAAAAAAACn0/WUk_z20MYYk/w1044-h96-no/FacebookLogo.png

https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1378479534683.png

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8WYEcQS8xW8/UhRismrXOXI/AAAAAAAADcU/gR_pb_NTriI/s500-no/evilwomanc.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-VxBRKCIsHOY/UhQ62ZDBKZI/AAAAAAAACrU/jqOjQsOANP8/w399-h283-no/HermaphroditicGoatOfMendes.png

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-5LeLEE3ICCI/UhRgshy2VsI/AAAAAAAADOY/JDhhQ8hbdVk/w634-h390-no/article-1340306-0C8C58D8000005DC-902_634x390b.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6hHdOZHTW-I/UhRhVt04gBI/AAAAAAAADSg/pU6PAwFqQ2w/w400-h507-no/beyoncee.png

They are inbreds...


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-b6VA8LZH_-E/UhQx-GDhWvI/AAAAAAAACpw/QS9JBn7MrkQ/w615-h507-no/GeorgeBushFamily.jpg

Go look at some of these images...theres hundreds more...

https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/117757226362220907487/photos/117757226362220907487/albums/5914396501390437521

[Sidney]

xthesurge0nx
Why do you see what you see?

now thats a good question.

N

You wanna know why I see what I see truthfully...Please take into considertion Im not religious...

Some time back I asked the architect of the universe to show me guidance...to show me love...and to show me knowledge...

Then slowly over time I began to see things in everything...shapes, symbols...etc...



wondering how this person can see a grey out of a fleur de lis ? if im missing it ( and i assume thats why this thread is here ) i can ask for clarification but the OP is being obscure about his/her clarification.

i cant get a straight answer so most would think its a joke


I see what I see because its there...if you dont see it then you dont see it...I cant force you to see it...what I do know Nanoo is I watched you troll people on Youtube...

I have my guard up with you nanoo...from what I viewed of you on other forums. I believe you personally have other motives for your comments...I may be wrong...butI think you are workingfor someone or your generally just a troll...

Why would most think its a joke? Who are you to speak for most people? what gives you the right to speak for everyone...how about speaking for yourself and let the divine creator do the judging...people will think its a joke, thats junk data, I would throw that out with the counter intelligence...

Ive give you the diagrams...Ive shown you the lines...Ive pointed out in many different pictures what I see...Ive ran the images through Steganography software...etc etc...

Like I said if you see it you see it, if you dont see it then you dont see it...

What I did see was an attack as soon as I put the information up...I slept on it and read back through...guess what, what I could see was the same as what I could see yesterday...

Ive explained what I see...if you have an issue with that then Imnot the right person to tell you...I dont have the people skills required to deal with certain types of people and to be honest all Ive ever done in life is change for others, yet others dont change for me...

So like I said earlier...IF YOU SEE IT, THEN YOU SEE IT...IF YOU DONT SEE IT THEN YOU DONT SEE IT...THATS YOUR PROBLEM NOT MINE...

And I break codes for a living...Iman Ethical Hacker...to degree level...

Hi exthesurge, I can see it. Honestly I am not quite sure why no one else can see it, it is sort of in your face. But it could be pareidolia as Raf says, and if you stare at the image long enough, it could take on many other different "characters". But then they do tend to put these things out in the open like that. My opinion is that it is most likely deliberate. And done so, knowingly that most people will never ever see it.

[xthesurge0nx]

Everyone once thought the world was flat...and hawking was wrong for 25 years - Susskind-Hawking battle...I see what I see...every time I look I see the same thing...

[Sierra]

xthesurge0nx,

We've spoken to you before about misleading titles that have nothing to do with the subject matter of a thread. This is false advertising, and we don't want Avalon thread titles read by the public to be B.S.

Changing the title ...

Sierra

[xthesurge0nx]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-rJOrh4RGSDQ/UhRQMI07nfI/AAAAAAAAC5M/suWwqEgeXeI/w211-h316-no/NicolasCageIlluminatib.png

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-T0bf6E8arsk/UhQqrDkg21I/AAAAAAAACHk/E-nvwV2oI0U/w344-h507-no/564947_337764642987868_575764850_n.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4jWMS47MKfU/UhQUEeNQ-HI/AAAAAAAABjI/NmKWGjjkXM0/w344-h507-no/564947_337764642987868_575764850_nb.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-IoDQF0tquUs/UhQtSe4Ha_I/AAAAAAAACcw/LAmX6me4zV0/w380-h507-no/DBeckhamBeach041611_44-full.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ysr9bj5MOhM/UhRfGAU_gxI/AAAAAAAADGQ/5TdT_ot0hlc/w559-h338-no/Waltdisney666.png

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-F_hSyXBKl_A/UhRizfV9fmI/AAAAAAAADc8/K1LhxnJjeWs/w634-h348-no/family-guy-illuminatic.png

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-T5j3xEFWnB4/UhQryhacBOI/AAAAAAAACUI/vTabidC7rdM/w556-h336-no/All_Seeing_Eye_Building.png

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-eBCTWKWz-4s/UhRgdKF4g1I/AAAAAAAADM8/qF6sb-8yOIw/w500-h375-no/allseeingeye4F.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-VMYbVjkNdhM/UhRLAhF9BEI/AAAAAAAACzQ/fUiHgjMwgL4/w1017-h507-no/Lithgow-18.png

[xthesurge0nx]

xthesurge0nx,

We've spoken to you before about misleading titles that have nothing to do with the subject matter of a thread. This is false advertising, and we don't want Avalon thread titles read by the public to be B.S.

Changing the title ...

Sierra

See this is why I started to see a problem...when ever you go down the Occult side and ETs you get misdirected and censored...your posts removed...you get put down...people try to make you look like an idiot...or a conspiracy nut...this forum is not what it says on the tin...maybe Avalon isnt the right place for me after all...



https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9vS7p-ahXPQ/UhQseBzEz_I/AAAAAAAACWU/6jENuzC3OJ8/w202-h300-no/Beyonce-illuminati-devil-ring-baphomet-666-full-body-new-song-girls-who-run-the-world-jay-z-new-world-order-cult-satanic-coachella-aleister-crowley-202x300.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-qV5Gd47nGDg/UhQVl5nFX-I/AAAAAAAABxs/wB6wU-T7TOc/w500-h436-no/BeetlesB.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9AXiRcgoz0o/UhQR_W5DYcI/AAAAAAAABfE/o1y5S7cRYRE/w483-h355-no/1372294301932.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-C7JkCfpbwdw/UhQSAK2XNgI/AAAAAAAABfc/7kugHom2ZAQ/w483-h355-no/1372294402252.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nv3KxYgEgzU/UhQSX9cuHSI/AAAAAAAABgE/b6B_HVaYzUs/w608-h507-no/1DollarBillPlain.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-CnquSGbG6VI/UhRNqhYhB1I/AAAAAAAAC3Y/nN_zu7V3UmM/w400-h366-no/MJ+2012+Michael+Jackson+6signal.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-eQ172LIuFgo/UhRejajQb5I/AAAAAAAADDQ/qHGVh2PNk-4/w902-h507-no/The+Project+for+the+New+American+Century.png

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-je0_4YW4yC8/UhSdlzThlFI/AAAAAAAADws/3kP66bngfFo/w300-h200-no/justin-bieber.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-cEIKvfb71SY/UhSbe8sItWI/AAAAAAAADvk/CpGOkCnrfgU/w619-h412-no/justin-bieber-horns.jpg

[Sierra]

xthesurge0nx,

We've spoken to you before about misleading titles that have nothing to do with the subject matter of a thread. This is false advertising, and we don't want Avalon thread titles read by the public to be B.S.

Changing the title ...

Sierra

See this is why I started to see a problem...when ever you go down the Occult side and ETs you get misdirected and censored...your posts removed...you get put down...people try to make you look like an idiot...or a conspiracy nut...this forum is not what it says on the tin...maybe Avalon isnt the right place for me after all...

You are not listening to people.

I changed the title to reflect the thread, which had nothing to do with the title.

You do realize while this is horrific and life changing material to YOU, most Avaloners have already processed this information, and there are many many threads on Avalon that have already covered this material. As I said before, this kind of information needs to be PROCESSED INTERNALLY, a little at a time, not going off the deep end externally.

You need to calm down. Yes it is upsetting when you first start to notice the prevalence of NWO symbology in the media, in literature, in corporate logos, in comix Yada Yada Yada ... Yes, it is everywhere.

Yes, most Avaloners know Disney is a vile Illuminati organization and there are many threads and personal eyewitness accounts of that as well.

It is fine to discuss the subject but perhaps it would be more appropriate to put your posts on Houman's thread (I gave you the link) ... After you read the thread, and get up to speed.

Your mish mash of interpretations and calling people out for attempting to correct you is not useful.

You ask, people will respond, and you need to be a bit more polite when you get a response that does not reflect your views. You are putting down people that have built a solid reputation for both research, and anecdotal information on Avalon after years of posting.

Sierra

[xthesurge0nx]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--iqrbwh_Bc0/UhQFKFEMk8I/AAAAAAAAAGM/ujcU1XOEp1o/w452-h507-no/3513_557478844271066_995769617_n.jpg

[Sierra]

See this is why I started to see a problem...when ever you go down the Occult side and ETs you get misdirected and censored...your posts removed...you get put down...people try to make you look like an idiot...or a conspiracy nut...this forum is not what it says on the tin...maybe Avalon isnt the right place for me after all...



If you would read Houman's thread, you would see this is not true.

Sierra

[xthesurge0nx]

Your mish mash of interpretations and calling people out for attempting to correct you is not useful.


Thats junk data...Im saying give me proof...show me what you see...Ive stated I have no issue changing my opinion if someone can give me good data to say Im wrong...all im getting is no constructive criticism at all IMO...



when you first start to notice


Thats junk data...Ive noticed this stuff for years...Im not a child...this is a subject thats been close to my heart for years...



You are not listening to people.


Yes I am listening to every word...I just dont hold the same opinion as some...and some dont like that...IMO...



I changed the title to reflect the thread, which had nothing to do with the title.


Thats junk data...how would you like it if I changed your thread posts...more than once...and by changing the title you are participating in the destruction of the original into a form that best suits you...IMO...

How would you like it if youve been blocked...censored...banned...put down...misdirected...lied to...targetted...threatened...and more...

People dont seem to get the seriousness of the problem...IMO...theyre changing the data to suit their opinion and not letting their opinion change with the data...thats their problem not mine...



Please understand...Im not trying to make people see...Im simply saying what I see...maybe saying what you see would be more productive than attacking what I see...maybe a diagram would be helpful so I see what you see...then I can change my opinion to the data...if the data makes sense to me...

I have no issue changing my opinion if someone can come up with a solid alternative...if you can point out what you see, then that might help me understand from your understanding and perspective what your brain is telling you...




debate

Pronunciation: /dɪˈbeɪt/

a formal discussion on a particular matter in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward and which usually ends with a vote: last night’s debate on the Education Bill

an argument about a particular subject, especially one in which many people are involved:the national debate on abortion [mass noun]:there has been much debate about prices


(Oxford Dictionary, 2013)

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Very interesting images there.

I see the Grail Rose, which I assume stands for the transit of the planet Venus around the sun.
It makes a perfect 5-petaled flower as perceived from earth.

So naturally the ancient stargazers attributed their own meanings to the constellations and planets,
and it seems like the rose is also some sort of sexual metaphor too..

[Sierra]

I've given you the link to Houman's thread.

If you want to be the star of your own show rather than get up to speed, your choice.

I'm bored. Buh bye.

Sierra

[xthesurge0nx]

Very interesting images there.

I see the Grail Rose, which I assume stands for the transit of the planet Venus around the sun.
It makes a perfect 5-petaled flower as perceived from earth.

So naturally the ancient stargazers attributed their own meanings to the constellations and planets,
and it seems like the rose is also some sort of sexual metaphor too..

Have you got any links I can take a look at maybe an image...please



star of your own show


(Sierra, 2013)


Serious mr/mrs materialistic...this is not about me...get off your high horse...from this day forth you shall be known as "power trip"...

If you havent read these books I suggest you might want to have a read...

Kevin D Mitnick - The Art Of Deception

http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Art_of_Deception.html?id=OIy4F-8b_uEC&redir_esc=y

Christopher Hadnagy - Social Engineering: The Art of Human Hacking

http://books.slashdot.org/story/11/03/09/1445241/Book-Review-Social-Engineering-The-Art-of-Human-Hacking

[Camilo]

With all due respect, I see paranoia.

[xthesurge0nx]

With all due respect, I see paranoia.

With all due respect, most people would see you just being on this forum as the same thing...


ekK_vDXAM7I



History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.


(Martin Luther King, Jr.)

[xthesurge0nx]

Linguist, philosopher, cognitive scientist, historian Noam Chomsky - Control of the Public Mind


Uz5bDmgdRSM

Freemason - US Naval Intelligence William Cooper - Mind Control - Illuminati - Bilderberg - 1994


6Xk_G2jbDOU

Propaganda & Mainstream Media - Regimenting the public mind like an army regiments its soldiers


tZyZ-p1N75M

[xthesurge0nx]

A perfect example of redirecting attention...


H4eqou_uvdo

[xthesurge0nx]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5280V_iVUgc/UhQJAjeUywI/AAAAAAAAAbQ/OYzSL-c1BXQ/w737-h455-no/illuminati1.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-kTlcm4OR8HU/UhQIucBMLbI/AAAAAAAAAZs/wNtaWuw0keY/w566-h507-no/gpDj7.gif

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-nEkn_2PaGPc/UhQIq2f4xXI/AAAAAAAAAZU/MZ4DQubHWY0/w185-h367-no/GlennBeckSkull%2526Bones.png

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-nWjAONGNwSI/UhQIrUZDPZI/AAAAAAAAAZc/OpwqtsEj8v8/w185-h367-no/GlennBeckSkull%2526BonesNaziSS.png

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-R-yqjiYsc-Y/UhQIHQboPNI/AAAAAAAAAX8/L_Ne1C0rJJ4/w338-h507-no/eye_s_8b.png

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sh06Qqz0u6c/UhQHq8FX6lI/AAAAAAAAAWY/ZWU4k0wXW8c/w500-h431-no/eazah8o8qqweaB.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-G_noqvfcEps/UhQGeD9-oDI/AAAAAAAAAPU/Qxj7KAa7ivU/w320-h184-no/all_se310.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-PBpqaoWjuWk/UhQGSOdZC5I/AAAAAAAAAMw/wnc0Pw5Z8ZQ/w500-h498-no/all_se189b.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-DaqCMgYjYNY/UhQHX6VwRSI/AAAAAAAAAUs/8ersyULKnD4/w400-h390-no/damian%252520hirst7x7x.jpg

[xthesurge0nx]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Uhyd5N1UNDc/UhQIcvnscmI/AAAAAAAAAY0/GhnxYM_cSeQ/w500-h503-no/fsu856wz.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-PP7vh-al5PY/UhQHet4H1PI/AAAAAAAAAVg/S40m7lxQuTY/w257-h196-no/devilhorns.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Jh8IsZeuf8M/UhQHFSqxXFI/AAAAAAAAATc/V43QN1fKrSg/w326-h450-no/bush_satan_gesturec.png

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yLwetcs3FYk/UhQsJEAqV-I/AAAAAAAACU4/lP1lQouL3gQ/w512-h346-no/666_ha7-MIX.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-JsQl2yUpb2U/UhRg_VEP8RI/AAAAAAAADQc/76S9GxLQBRg/w460-h288-no/berlus75.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-PhEpUl02ksM/UhQtL65VfLI/AAAAAAAACb8/K1AFZT_USTU/w379-h221-no/Clinton666.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-8MbSdCm6BEQ/UhRjDlI7IxI/AAAAAAAADes/LwNb0p02JWw/w573-h381-no/france.png

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2maUh1p0cjM/UhQUUrekMaI/AAAAAAAABmA/fY8XbJu2N_M/w460-h276-no/666_ha13C.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-MxMrT2jMwS4/UhQFbVnHUsI/AAAAAAAAAHU/Nd3TNET52Ek/w640-h480-no/419276_564117743632803_1767674480_nc.jpg

[Violet]

Surgeon, you cannot blame people for being critical, but your analysis reminded me of something else I once saw:


http://www.world-wide-gifts.com/images/large/Morocco-Coat-of-Arms-Fridge-Magnet.jpg

[shadowstalker]

I humbly request that the blinky poster is removed as there may be epileptics on bored
And it does create headaches for some, thank you for understanding..

[xthesurge0nx]

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-SRZ8SoYs_rA/UhQrOmkn-QI/AAAAAAAACOo/jduaB_8xQ_Y/w476-h507-no/666_ha76.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-z9ObOZ7dRl8/UhQrNLj4PRI/AAAAAAAACOU/98XoVQ57SoE/w252-h206-no/666_ha74.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-3JxC6IMWUCU/UhQrRmrtwyI/AAAAAAAACPE/chvja3P4VhQ/w464-h348-no/666_ha77.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-smR7nxED-uQ/UhQrSFjfdmI/AAAAAAAACPI/SVwcjLIo28s/w323-h211-no/666_ha78.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-vTv_aWL3t6A/UhQrMvhMmwI/AAAAAAAACOI/xxbFljY3YYQ/w180-h264-no/666_ha73.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Fe3tiNxHBtY/UhQrSommtzI/AAAAAAAACPQ/zFFGFJz4Wjc/w315-h507-no/666_ha79.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--JU23IVnago/UhQrVC15yLI/AAAAAAAACP4/3jEUh3sd7tM/w270-h187-no/666_ha87.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gGsSRFmvDMA/UhRgWYzReyI/AAAAAAAADMQ/jC80bMo7_HA/w599-h507-no/aaaamjmerkelz.png

http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-nDqqoPJOie0/UhQMkvdG5zI/AAAAAAAABOc/0R7I8-BgqUk/w423-h232-no/QueenBushDevilHornb.png

[thunder24]

what are you trying to prove to this alternative forum about Satanism or its symbols or the hidden sh!t within? sierra said alot of this has been discussed...

If you are trying to inform us ...cool....thanks... NOW WHAT?

PEACE

[xthesurge0nx]

what are you trying to prove to this alternative forum about Satanism or its symbols or the hidden sh!t within? sierra said alot of this has been discussed...

If you are trying to inform us ...cool....thanks... NOW WHAT?

PEACE

Im not directing anything at you...you have an issue then dont post...go look at something else...Im not trying to prove anything to anyone...if you dont get it then you dont get it...those who understand will see it for what it is...those who dont then thats seriously their issue...

Im not trying to prove anything to anyone...Im saying what I see...if you already know then move on...

[shadowstalker]

Thank you for removing the blinky..
I am sure there is a poster thingy that can be found that don't blink somewhere?

[xthesurge0nx]

Thank you for removing the blinky..
I am sure there is a poster thingy that can be found that don't blink somewhere?

http://thebrotherhoodofthesnake.com/

[thunder24]

thats a good thing its not directed at me, cause i don't have an issue...

ok so your not trying to prove anything.... ok I see the Grey alien...

NOW WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT IT?

PEACE


what are you trying to prove to this alternative forum about Satanism or its symbols or the hidden sh!t within? sierra said alot of this has been discussed...

If you are trying to inform us ...cool....thanks... NOW WHAT?

PEACE

Im not directing anything at you...you have an issue then dont post...go look at something else...Im not trying to prove anything to anyone...if you dont get it then you dont get it...those who understand will see it for what it is...those who dont then thats seriously their issue...

Im not trying to prove anything to anyone...Im saying what I see...if you already know then move on...

[xthesurge0nx]

thats a good thing its not directed at me, cause i don't have an issue...

ok so your not trying to prove anything.... ok I see the Grey alien...

NOW WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT IT?

PEACE


what are you trying to prove to this alternative forum about Satanism or its symbols or the hidden sh!t within? sierra said alot of this has been discussed...

If you are trying to inform us ...cool....thanks... NOW WHAT?

PEACE

Im not directing anything at you...you have an issue then dont post...go look at something else...Im not trying to prove anything to anyone...if you dont get it then you dont get it...those who understand will see it for what it is...those who dont then thats seriously their issue...

Im not trying to prove anything to anyone...Im saying what I see...if you already know then move on...

I know you wouldnt like my answer so Im going to keep it to myself and plan in secret...with people I know I can trust...with the greatest of respect...I suggest you do the same...


https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-wiji8IqCyYs/UhQUY_Y4PnI/AAAAAAAABm4/pUiZCs0vTwc/w172-h197-no/666_ha23.gif

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-oxTVmM0ZvQw/UhQUY8cwUiI/AAAAAAAABm0/BH2asJTcunI/w320-h247-no/666_ha24.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-v1iCzeHZQVw/UhQUYyPtJGI/AAAAAAAABnM/77lJh0qqVY4/w340-h460-no/666_ha27.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3jxZh85wJ8w/UhQURleDu0I/AAAAAAAABk8/fGEZdfp1-DI/w300-h225-no/666_ha1.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OPSOlU_DqYQ/UhQUBspGekI/AAAAAAAABio/46Y-56U9vOc/w361-h507-no/47d2e_pope_illuminati_signs_rip_pope_john_paul_2.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-o8L2HhajFDA/UhQUiCEaYHI/AAAAAAAABps/_VPntVbz0mk/w420-h412-no/666_ha66.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-m0JsanaT8cM/UhQUfIMH-AI/AAAAAAAABoo/MjsWGJ_tlos/w464-h393-no/666_ha49.gif

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sl1U1g6HRFI/UhQUfnRKViI/AAAAAAAABow/jRkRixIcGe0/w370-h344-no/666_ha54.gif

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-g1atsUwUZ8M/UhQUgO-Eb4I/AAAAAAAABpI/THOsj2m8QU0/w512-h421-no/666_ha57.jpg

[thunder24]

WOW.... you have people you trust.... where do i find me some of them.....???


I know you wouldnt like my answer so Im going to keep it to myself and plan in secret...with people I know I can trust...with the greatest of respect...I suggest you do the same...


https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-wiji8IqCyYs/UhQUY_Y4PnI/AAAAAAAABm4/pUiZCs0vTwc/w172-h197-no/666_ha23.gif

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-oxTVmM0ZvQw/UhQUY8cwUiI/AAAAAAAABm0/BH2asJTcunI/w320-h247-no/666_ha24.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-v1iCzeHZQVw/UhQUYyPtJGI/AAAAAAAABnM/77lJh0qqVY4/w340-h460-no/666_ha27.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3jxZh85wJ8w/UhQURleDu0I/AAAAAAAABk8/fGEZdfp1-DI/w300-h225-no/666_ha1.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OPSOlU_DqYQ/UhQUBspGekI/AAAAAAAABio/46Y-56U9vOc/w361-h507-no/47d2e_pope_illuminati_signs_rip_pope_john_paul_2.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-o8L2HhajFDA/UhQUiCEaYHI/AAAAAAAABps/_VPntVbz0mk/w420-h412-no/666_ha66.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-m0JsanaT8cM/UhQUfIMH-AI/AAAAAAAABoo/MjsWGJ_tlos/w464-h393-no/666_ha49.gif

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sl1U1g6HRFI/UhQUfnRKViI/AAAAAAAABow/jRkRixIcGe0/w370-h344-no/666_ha54.gif

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-g1atsUwUZ8M/UhQUgO-Eb4I/AAAAAAAABpI/THOsj2m8QU0/w512-h421-no/666_ha57.jpg

[xthesurge0nx]

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-zHQRDXTWvfk/UhQUghFAyZI/AAAAAAAABpE/PERzSuCtMso/w512-h318-no/666_ha58.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-77UOWVZ9okw/UhQUiLbaeKI/AAAAAAAABpk/wyV4T6QWByM/w392-h388-no/666_ha67.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9MeN5KHDFYk/UhQUjq4sWNI/AAAAAAAABp4/WviagzJwKO0/w449-h365-no/666_ha68.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Me90Z9-Q7V8/UhQUlShzEII/AAAAAAAABqM/VVWR565nXoQ/w474-h304-no/666_ha71.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8Mdrf-OkFSw/UhQUtMmFq1I/AAAAAAAABr8/td2-obtQWoc/w634-h341-no/666_ha84.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-TemJqKnr1EI/UhQU_CqmjZI/AAAAAAAABv8/gwA96XuNl74/w650-h369-no/AllSeeingEyeStars.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xOROakUoaaQ/UhQVpN0CUsI/AAAAAAAAByg/WMgo1KDN8h8/w480-h360-no/BeyonceJayzPyramid.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yEaDL6GpFrg/UhQVqW-blnI/AAAAAAAABy0/kaSO3w3AXmU/w480-h360-no/BeyonceJayzPyramidx.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-cp4mjJDr9dM/UhQUXmdDl-I/AAAAAAAABmk/1VKWHX1sgAs/w620-h465-no/666_ha22.jpg

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Very interesting images there.

I see the Grail Rose, which I assume stands for the transit of the planet Venus around the sun.
It makes a perfect 5-petaled flower as perceived from earth.

So naturally the ancient stargazers attributed their own meanings to the constellations and planets,
and it seems like the rose is also some sort of sexual metaphor too..

Have you got any links I can take a look at maybe an image...please



star of your own show


(Sierra, 2013)


Serious mr/mrs materialistic...this is not about me...get off your high horse...from this day forth you shall be known as "power trip"...

If you havent read these books I suggest you might want to have a read...

Kevin D Mitnick - The Art Of Deception

http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Art_of_Deception.html?id=OIy4F-8b_uEC&redir_esc=y

Christopher Hadnagy - Social Engineering: The Art of Human Hacking

http://books.slashdot.org/story/11/03/09/1445241/Book-Review-Social-Engineering-The-Art-of-Human-Hacking

im on other forums ?

youve seen me troll you tube ?

now i know youre making it up.

Are you trying to make your self out to be a sort of mystic ?

i asked you legitimate questions and yet you didnt want to answer them. Mind you some of your other threads i really enjoyed reading your material.Its obvious you spend a lot of time sifting and gathering material.

My question however .. if you present a book of ritual magic as evidense and the content of this book is glaringly bogus then your reputation now of anything you present would seem like you dont really do your research. I offer this as constructive criticism of course.

And i get the feeling that you remind me of someone ... 9 eagle 9 . hmm yes thats who you remind me of .. sorry to do that i know 9 eagle 9 had some fans here but she also took this sort of stance when someone questioned her. hmmm

N

[xthesurge0nx]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-b9wVCb3niK0/UhQUzpyZVrI/AAAAAAAABtM/UDdYtpJlD3c/w400-h356-no/666_ha96.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-V8AJKeY_BkU/UhQUzsc5_9I/AAAAAAAABtQ/XvhrI3QOLpw/w338-h507-no/666_ha97.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Sa9gUveub0k/UhQU0pptF2I/AAAAAAAABtg/hyGGH9beLIA/w347-h507-no/666_ha98.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-P8kT6ymKic0/UhQURjUyGpI/AAAAAAAABlE/cCej87HXz4w/w445-h419-no/666_ha101.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7W3gkvkQgv8/UhQSAzxhqGI/AAAAAAAABfg/nFcojhhsvY4/w362-h507-no/167413.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ub0ivRI7XPc/UhQU5yN0eHI/AAAAAAAABu8/Sd-NdAxGNT0/w400-h300-no/91g0foiqfloyd.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-EEjqNhW_glA/UhQUIKfCqaI/AAAAAAAABj8/ALyfaeVk7aY/w500-h258-no/666-hand-sign-gaga.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-C0-wz4vexDQ/UhQLe8zRwhI/AAAAAAAAA6k/myMkL1x3FLM/w505-h507-no/piamia.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HTuTGfcBG5w/UhQG8H28fqI/AAAAAAAAASs/j4o1h0rdJzE/w580-h416-no/BOSTONMASACRE.jpg

[Camilo]

Hey xthesurge0nx, a piece of advise here: No new comer is gonna make any friends here at PA, nor gain any respect with a defiant or disrespectful attitude.

[xthesurge0nx]

im on other forums ?

youve seen me troll you tube ?

now i know youre making it up.


Now I know not to trust you...



Are you trying to make your self out to be a sort of mystic ?


Are you stupid...thats the most idiotic thing I ever heard...Im a normal person...Imjust like everyone else...no special powers...



i asked you legitimate questions and yet you didnt want to answer them. Mind you some of your other threads i really enjoyed reading your material.Its obvious you spend a lot of time sifting and gathering material.


Put them in bullet ponts and Ill answer them...no probs...



My question however .. if you present a book of ritual magic as evidense and the content of this book is glaringly bogus then your reputation now of anything you present would seem like you dont really do your research. I offer this as constructive criticism of course.


I got the Occult Symbols that were from a Ritual Child Sacrifice Case that was used to prosecute murderers...I would prefer if you just didnt talk to me...can you do that for me please?

Could you also supply your references for this bogus book also so I can make my ownjudgement on the data rather than taking your word for it?



And i get the feeling that you remind me of someone ... 9 eagle 9 . hmm yes thats who you remind me of .. sorry to do that i know 9 eagle 9 had some fans here but she also took this sort of stance when someone questioned her. hmmm


I get the feeling you remind me of...Ill keep that to myself....

[ROMANWKT]

What is the matter with you people here, your behavior to somebody who wishes to point thing out that come as a natural to him, the hostility here is really something, let him do his thing is is very interesting and exposing, and yes it was done before and so had many other thing done here before, but every body expresses the things done before differently and more explicitly than others, you so called seekers here put me to shame, you people cant stand anybody being different from your point of view and outlook.

roman

[xthesurge0nx]

Hey xthesurge0nx, a piece of advise here: No new comer is gonna make any friends here at PA, nor gain any respect with a defiant or disrespectful attitude.

Good job making friends is not my main objective then eh...

[ROMANWKT]

Hey xthesurge0nx, a piece of advise here: No new comer is gonna make any friends here at PA, nor gain any respect with a defiant or disrespectful attitude.


Hi Camilo

People don't come here to be criticized understand what you're saying, but look at the hostility here

Regards

roman

[xthesurge0nx]

What is the matter with you people here, your behavior to somebody who wishes to point thing out that come as a natural to him, the hostility here is really something, let him do his thing is is very interesting and exposing, and yes it was done before and so had many other thing done here before, but every body expresses the things done before differently and more explicitly than others, you so called seekers here put me to shame, you people cant stand anybody being different from your point of view and outlook.

roman

Thank you very much...I hope some people see im simply standing my ground...I mean no harm...

[shadowstalker]

So the minuet sign and or ok hands gestures are to be seen as satanic because some one saw it as such,(are we sure someone didnt make that up on the fly? To gather numbers?) are you really doing unbiased research or are you standing on the shoulders of others paranoia? These are legit questions?

Those gestures have been used for generations but since all this fear mongering started about ten or so years ago no one can go down the street with being accosted one way or another or being looked at funny..

SO now I should stop using the hand gesture?
NO I don't think so, this is no different from a witch hunt when one really gets down deep..
Sorry but i just had to say..

This is what keeps the fear/anger issues going

Does any one truly feel in there heart of hearts and soul of souls truly feel beyond a doubt that those gestures are truly satanic...

[ROMANWKT]

So the minuet sign and or ok hands gestures are to be seen as satanic because some one saw it as such,(are we sure someone didnt make that up on the fly? To gather numbers?) are you really doing unbiased research or are you standing on the shoulders of others paranoia? These are legit questions?

Those gestures have been used for generations but since all this fear mongering started about ten or so years ago no one can go down the street with being accosted one way or another or being looked at funny..

SO now I should stop using the hand gesture?
NO I don't think so, this is no different from a witch hunt when one really gets down deep..
Sorry but i just had to say..

This is what keeps the fear/anger issues going

Hi shadowstalker

These people have sold themselves and us all intentionally or just through ignorance, but this is everywhere, the whole system is run by the Occultist, and they are letting you know, so what do we do about it would be the right spirit here, or at least we are conscious of the fact which are being displayed on this thread, check out the Mark Passio website, and that all he is trying to warn people about, the in your face occultist, satanism, and again, what do we do about it????

Warmest regards to you shadowstalker as ever

roman

[Fred Steeves]

22714

Sorry, just couldn't resist...

[shadowstalker]

what do we do about it????

I think Fred Steeves just did...


22714

Sorry, just couldn't resist...

Amen, throw it back to the truly fearful and manipulative, let them know your not afraid or angry or paranoid about what maybe around you

[Nanoo Nanoo]

i find it a little bit offensive somene so obviously an agent of distraction hiding behind Guido.

[xthesurge0nx]

22714

Sorry, just couldn't resist...

Now thats funny...

[Shane]

"It's a big club and you're not a part of it".... but that's ok.. you don't want to be.

Although some consciously use hand gestures such as this, some are just being "copy cats". Monkey see Monkey do. Those conscious of the meaning of their used symbology understand fully what "power" symbols can hold. They also use them to show other people in the "club" that "Hey I'm in the club too!".

Regardless.. Observing these signs and symbols is very important. Some already know this.. Some are just discovering it... Some, have no clue and have never noticed before. Perhaps the majority of Avalon are aware and have read other threads like this.. But some are not/have not. Also, some people will join the forum today, or tomorrow, and aren't going to dig through the full PA archives.. and therefor, this thread can be of value.

Symbols carry a charge which can influence our subconscious mind. I am sure most have heard of subliminal messages? This is another way of delivering a message subliminally.

Learning these symbols and their purposed usages can aide in protecting us from their influence. "Knowing is half the battle" is true in this case. There is more that we must do to avoid the effects of such symbols, but, because even the most "awake" individuals at times fail to notice or pay mind to their effects, few ever get that far.

Much like fending off a "psychic attack" we must learn to repel and heal from the causes created by symbols in our lives. People who do know and fully believe in their "power" are mostly the ones using them. If "they" believe in anything there is sure to be a good reason. SO it is a good step to learn how to fend off and counter such "attacks" on our hearts and minds. (psyche)



The rest of this does not need to be said, but I am going to go ahead and type it anyways because I respect you all.. No need to comment, feel free to ignore these words but as someone who cares about all people I feel a little reminder is of value:

There are MANY threads on this site I do not have to, or want to read. I may know all the information in the thread already, or I may not care, or I maybe too lazy to read it.. But instead of going into the thread and stating one of those situations as fact... I just close the thread and go read another one.

I have a friend who would save pictures like this for days on end.. always want to discuss them.. never really state what they thought but would keep asking my opinion. All I did.. was give my opinion, or not give my opinion. Simple. Just something to consider.

[xthesurge0nx]

So the minuet sign and or ok hands gestures are to be seen as satanic because some one saw it as such,(are we sure someone didnt make that up on the fly? To gather numbers?) are you really doing unbiased research or are you standing on the shoulders of others paranoia? These are legit questions?


Now if youre honest to yourself you would know those arent legit questions, they are an attempted character assassination...

Youre on a website forum for UFOs and ETs...who are you to say whos paranoid...you think I would be allowed anywhere near nuclear weapons if I was paranoid...

What makes you right and me wrong? Explain that...show me your source/reference...you gave me mouth with nothing to backup what youre saying...

Ill say it again...just because you dont see something doesnt mean it doesnt exist...maybe its you whos lacking in the research area...

Maybe take a listen to this video...


6hWvdhl7k38

If you think the people who are doing the signs have no other motive then me and you dont see eye to eye...



Those gestures have been used for generations but since all this fear mongering started about ten or so years ago no one can go down the street with being accosted one way or another or being looked at funny..


Junk data...its not everyone its certain people from certain organisations...if you know anything about the music industry which I studied 3 years at college after I studied criminal psychology for a year then you would know about selling your persona...the fake persona you setup in the music industry...youre selling a product...you take out a contract with the music industry...say it was a contract for 1 million...you have to pay that money back...

I have a honours degree in Ethical Hacking and Security System Design. I also worked for Microsoft and Apple for a year each...Ive worked for Hospitals, Councils, Colleges and alot more...I have an MCSA, a CCNA...Im an NVQ level 3 IT professional Ive done an Advanced Apprenticeship in IT services and development , I can program in up to 10 different computer languages as well as alot more...so Im no idiot...like youre trying to make out...but I see it for what it is...junk data...



SO now I should stop using the hand gesture?
NO I don't think so, this is no different from a witch hunt when one really gets down deep..
Sorry but i just had to say..

This is what keeps the fear/anger issues going


No use the hand gesture all you want...post it on the internet...I would pass it by because you mean nothing to me...youre just a nobody...like me...

From this day forth you shall be known as "Normalcy Bias".



Does any one truly feel in there heart of hearts and soul of souls truly feel beyond a doubt that those gestures are truly satanic...


Yes without a shadow of a doubt otherwise I wouldntgive it the light of day...

Your agenda is clearly aimed towards who I am and putting me down...

Youre not nice people thats what Im getting from your posts and comments...and it is re-enforcing the idea I had yesterday...

Ill post my degree tomorrow when I take a photo just backup what im saying about who I am...and that Im telling the truth about me...

If anyone really wants to look into who I am then my service number was D243069B...or Delta 24 30 69 Bravo...

The OM(WSM) stands for Operator Maintainer Weapons Submarine previously known as Weapons Engineer, my branch badge can be seen in the attachments...this is a copy of what the branch badge looked like not the actual badge...

I was trained in both Tactical and Strategic weapons systems onboard Vanguard Class, Trafalgar Class and Swiftsure Class submarines...those in the know will know what Im saying...I was trained in Firecontrol, Nav and launcher...my assigned job was Nav...I was trained in the missile compartment, the Nav centre, the forward dome...and more...

I did my SETT or Submarine Escape Tank Training at HMS Dolphin now known as Fort Blockhouse...

I did my basic training at HMS Raleigh and I was in Pellew Division which is Red Division...I also did my part two training at HMS Raleigh which is known as Seamanship...just down from the NAAFI...

For those who smoke...at the time the Garbage Ejector was the smoking area...

I was based in Faslane Naval Base...just next to the Greenpeace camp...in helensburgh...just outside of Glasgow over from Greenock...

I was based in Edinburgh for a short time stripping cable out of old Resolution class subs...off the top of my head...

So now you have an idea who I am, how about you put your money where your mouth is an supply a source for the data I supplied that you said was junk...prove it...

[xthesurge0nx]

i find it a little bit offensive somene so obviously an agent of distraction hiding behind Guido.

Was that towards me...youre a laughing stock...the agent is clearly you...what you fail to understand is Im not telling anyone anything...my agenda is simple...say what I see and tell the truth...the truth hurts more than a lie...

You have give no solid evidence to backup your claims and Im still waiting...Ive walked to the garage and bought two sandwiches, two bags of crisps, some cigs and a bottle of pop...ate the lot...and you still havent supplied a single reference...whos the disinfo agent...

Your actions have spoken louder than your words...

Oh and I think I remember where the trolling took place...

Miles Johnsons Youtube channel...either Chantelle Piper or Michael Prince video...they had the same name as you...I remember because I looked at the Nanoo Nanoo channel and went through some of the posts...

So Im calling you out for what you are...

From this day forth you will be known as "Agent Nanoo"...

"Normalcy Bias" & "Agent Nanoo" together they will be known as The Order of Grey Poopon...

For those who think it couldnt happen let me remind you of Sir Jimmy Savile...Prime Miister Edward Heath & Jimmy Savile were raping & killing boys together...

Barrister Michael Shrimpton & Tony Gosling - Prime Minister Edward Heath & Saville child murder


htFfPmGHrbc

[xthesurge0nx]

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-IouAfAOLnRc/Uig4jsW-y2I/AAAAAAAAEHU/uwvxHozsh1U/w927-h507-no/CameronQueen3.png

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-dLuwALa34fY/Uig4r0wAvUI/AAAAAAAAEHc/HUaYe2NZGZU/w566-h507-no/HClintonQueenRelated.png

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iTrbXDtG8aA/Uig46weJUFI/AAAAAAAAEHk/jNTEDGWAsK0/w854-h507-no/ObamaHilaryBushQueenRelated.png

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-d1RgPyiv8Ig/Uig4her3HwI/AAAAAAAAEHM/lQfLhbD2qEw/w755-h507-no/BushWinstonChurchill.png

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-JtMXldfV2YA/Uig60r00qtI/AAAAAAAAEHw/DuH17NjNJHI/w485-h288-no/ObamaRomneyDiana.png

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Qu72Pmlxw1o/Uig62kU2MsI/AAAAAAAAEH4/kj6o306oJSE/w1027-h507-no/PrinceCharlesBlair.png

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-o6HeR8aEvww/Uig64Ec_fRI/AAAAAAAAEIA/jYwJIH3UXr8/w1044-h472-no/QueenBlair.png

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Hundreds of images...800+ images https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/117757226362220907487/photos/117757226362220907487/albums

[Bill Ryan]

-------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorschach_test

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Agent Nanoo ... i think i like it !

As of this day forth i shall be Agent Nanoo of the PooopShovel Clan of Agents ! and it was good : 0)

can you show me a link to this Nanoo chanel ? ( we all know im the only person on earth to have even made refrence to Nanoo and that i hold exclusive licence )

Another made refrence to me Living in arizona and that i have a Facebook page : 0 )

My dear friend you cant seriously peddle your assumptions and state them as fact .. i am getting the feeling you are perhaps Delusional ?

Agent Nanoo has sprachen .. i mean spoken.

:0)

[xthesurge0nx]

The Rorschach test (German pronunciation: [ˈʁoːɐʃax]; also known as the Rorschach inkblot test, the Rorschach technique, or simply the inkblot test) is a psychological test in which subjects' perceptions of inkblots are recorded and then analyzed using psychological interpretation, complex algorithms, or both. Some psychologists use this test to examine a person's personality characteristics and emotional functioning. It has been employed to detect underlying thought disorder, especially in cases where patients are reluctant to describe their thinking processes openly. The test is named after its creator, Swiss psychologist Hermann Rorschach.




Although the Exner Scoring System (developed since the 1960s) claims to have addressed and often refuted many criticisms of the original testing system with an extensive body of research, some researchers continue to raise questions. The areas of dispute include the objectivity of testers, inter-rater reliability, the verifiability and general validity of the test, bias of the test's pathology scales towards greater numbers of responses, the limited number of psychological conditions which it accurately diagnoses, the inability to replicate the test's norms, its use in court-ordered evaluations, and the proliferation of the ten inkblot images, potentially invalidating the test for those who have been exposed to them.





Methods of interpretation differ




Rorschach himself never intended the inkblots to be used as a general personality test, but developed them as a tool for the diagnosis of schizophrenia.




It was not until 1939 that the test was used as a projective test of personality, a use of which Rorschach had always been sceptical.




The interpretation of the Rorschach test is not based primarily on the contents of the response, i.e., what the individual sees in the inkblot (the content). In fact, the contents of the response are only a comparatively small portion of a broader cluster of variables that are used to interpret the Rorschach data: for instance, information is provided by the time taken before providing a response for a card can be significant (taking a long time can indicate "shock" on the card). as well as by any comments the subject may make in addition to providing a direct response.

In particular, information about determinants (the aspects of the inkblots that triggered the response, such as form and color) and location (which details of the inkblots triggered the response) is often considered more important than content, although there is contrasting evidence. "Popularity" and "originality" of responses can also be considered as basic dimensions in the analysis.




More than any other feature in the test, content response can be controlled consciously by the subject, and may be elicited by very disparate factors, which makes it difficult to use content alone to draw any conclusions about the subject's personality; with certain individuals, content responses may potentially be interpreted directly, and some information can at times be obtained by analyzing thematic trends in the whole set of content responses (which is only feasible when several responses are available), but in general content cannot be analyzed outside of the context of the entire test record.




Rita Signer, curator of the Rorschach Archives in Bern, Switzerland, suggested that far from being random or chance designs, each of the blots selected by Rorschach for his test had been meticulously designed to be as ambiguous and "conflicted" as possible.


------------------------------------------------------

With the upmost respect Bill Wikipedia is a terrible source...I remember once when I got some information off Wikipedia about a birth date...I then checked it against the actual birth and death certs of the person and wikipedia was wrong...

Then I read the trouble Lloyd Pye had when he tried to correct mistakes on Wikipedia and they kept changing what he wrote...Im currently looking for the page...his websites been updated so its not in the original place...

[xthesurge0nx]

i am getting the feeling you are perhaps Delusional ?


Sorry to disappoint but a psychiatrist & phychologist with roughly 80 years between them said Im not so...in your face...

What is your problem with me? seriously what did I do that made you such an evil person towards me...I hope people see you for what you are...jumping between threads trolling people...you must be empty inside...no patriotism what so ever...if you are military, intelligence etc then youre attacking the very people you signed to protect...what Im getting is you probably failed the entrance exam...hence the trolling...what are you a cleaner...on the sick...still at school...suffer from little big man...what is your malfunction Agent Nanoo of the Order of Poopon...

Why dont you get a set instead of being a sheeple...

All youre doing is proving you have other motives...

Im still waiting for your reference material Agent Nanoo

how about you get a spoon and eat out of my ***

What emotionally mixed up world are you from...seriously are you like 14 years old...show me your reference material Agent Nanoo...you cant because you have none...I asked the Order of Grey Poopon to give me your reference and none of you have stepped up to the mark...tells the world youre full of it...

Troll...

[Nanoo Nanoo]

ok so you see a psych ... hmm

and you want me to eat stuff out of your bum ? with a spoon ? is this a stanic ritual ? what symbols would we use for this ?

AN

[xthesurge0nx]

ok so you see a psych ... hmm

and you want me to eat stuff out of your bum ? with a spoon ? is this a stanic ritual ? what symbols would we use for this ?

AN

Well alot of sane people do because of what they have seen through life...I got suspected PTSD from what Ive seen...see perfect example of someone trying to assassinate character...learn from this person...hes an idiot...blown his cover by being a fool...wheres that source Agent Nanoo...

I watched my dad torture someone in a living room when I was a child Nanoo...he broke his toes with a set of pliars...I still hear the screams...

I watched my best friend die in front of me after a slow death...

I watched my dad die of Aids Agent Nanoo because of a blood transfusion...

I watched my dad get his nose bit off and his head smashed with hammers...

I watched my mum being beaten day after day Nanoo...when I was just a child...have you ever watched your mum being punched black and blue...and you cant stop it...you just have to stand there and watch...

Most of my friends have died Nanoo...

I was witness to child molestation Nanoo...Ive seen a baby hung from the roof by tape then burned with candle wax Nanoo...now every time I hear a baby cry I get a flash back...

You have no idea what Ive seen...

But what I can say hand on heart Nanoo...Im honest...and Im workingfrom the heart...

[Bill Ryan]

With the upmost respect Bill Wikipedia is a terrible source...

For some things, yes it is. But it's pretty good for things like a Rorschach Test.

The point is that people will see what they want or choose to in random shapes (made with inkblots).

The shapes you're drawing attention to aren't random, but the Rorschach principle is that what people see in shapes reflects their own psychology (as it were) more than the 'reality' of what's there.

And when we identify a pattern, we then tend to see it everywhere. There's really no such thing as 'raw data' being processed by our minds: We filter everything, whether we realize it or not. Our beliefs control our perceptions much more than we might think.

Try this as an alternative!

http://theinkblot.com

[xthesurge0nx]

Thank you very much Bill I respect your opinion...I truely do...

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Is this you ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CthxEseJkrw

your doctor should stop you using the ink blot test .. it seems you have taken it a little too far ..

AN

[onawah]

Really, Nanoo and Xthesurgeonx, please, for the sake of Avalon, behave like big boys and delete all the insults, dramatics and vile imagery from your posts.
If you won't, I hope for the sake of everyone else, that the Mods will.
It's not even remotely entertaining, and if you would just stick to the facts, I'm sure everyone would appreciate it very much.

[xthesurge0nx]

With the upmost respect Bill Wikipedia is a terrible source...

For some things, yes it is. But it's pretty good for things like a Rorschach Test.

The point is that people will see what they want or choose to in random shapes (made with inkblots).

The shapes you're drawing attention to aren't random, but the Rorschach principle is that what people see in shapes reflects their own psychology (as it were) more than the 'reality' of what's there.

And when we identify a pattern, we then tend to see it everywhere. There's really no such thing as 'raw data' being processed by our minds: We filter everything, whether we realize it or not. Our beliefs control our perceptions much more than we might think.

Try this as an alternative!

http://theinkblot.com

Bill I tried the test you sent me and answered nothing for every question...this is what came back...please tellme you were joking...



Sickness Quotient: 65%
Hmmm, your "Sickness Quotient" of 65% is a little worriesome.




Interpersonal Insights
You hate your mother and father, your neighbors, co-workers, friends, and just about everyone else who happens to think you're a worthless boob. Everyone likes you. This is because your life is such a mess that everyone else is relieved they aren't you.


Thats junk data...I love my mum...and my friends and family know Im not...



Job Performance & Attitude
You work very slowly. In fact, if you went any slower you'd be in reverse. You hate your job but will never leave it. That's because no one else will hire people whose job skills consist of sleeping and surfing the web.


Thats junk data...



Personality Insight
Your personal motto is "Practice makes perfect.", but since nobody's perfect you might as well stop wasting your time.


Thats junk data...

---------------------------------------

I then did it again giving the same answers and got the following...

---------------------------------------

Sickness Quotient: 77%
Your "Sickness Quotient" of 77% indicates therapy may be useful.

Detailed Diagnosis

Interpersonal Insights
You have difficulty concentrating or keeping on task, probably because you're an idiot with a short attention-span. You think everyone is out to get you, and you're absolutely right. It's because you're an awful person without any redeeming qualities.

Job Performance & Attitude
Your work is of such poor quality that your manager is considering replacing you with a machine that flushes. You have a deep love for your patients, which is unfortunate since you're a veterinarian.

Personality Insight
Your personal motto is "Practice makes perfect.", but since nobody's perfect you might as well stop wasting your time.

[xthesurge0nx]

Really, Nanoo and Xthesurgeonx, please, for the sake of Avalon, behave like big boys and delete all the insults, dramatics and vile imagery from your posts.
If you won't, I hope for the sake of everyone else, that the Mods will.
It's not even remotely entertaining, and if you would just stick to the facts, I'm sure everyone would appreciate it very much.

Im sorry...its Agent Nanoo trolling people...and then hes doing my head in and im taking it out on other people...

[shadowstalker]

http://theinkblot.com/about.htm
The Inkblot site is a fun test similar to the Rorschach test. We don't use the actual Rorschach cards but we use a set that is very similar in appearance. The test results are completely nonsensical and should not be relied upon in any way, shape, or form (except for a good laugh). Needless to say, we don't actually do any "analysis" of your responses, nor are they stored, kept, or tabulated in any way. It's all just a bloody daft joke, okay?

[xthesurge0nx]

http://theinkblot.com/about.htm
The Inkblot site is a fun test similar to the Rorschach test. We don't use the actual Rorschach cards but we use a set that is very similar in appearance. The test results are completely nonsensical and should not be relied upon in any way, shape, or form (except for a good laugh). Needless to say, we don't actually do any "analysis" of your responses, nor are they stored, kept, or tabulated in any way. It's all just a bloody daft joke, okay?

Im smiling...I get it!!! I read it after id taken the test twice!!!

I must admit when I was reading the questions I was like...serious...no way...junk data...BS...crap...nonsense...etc etc...

Does that mean I need some time out...I get it...turn off the computer and go do something else...Go relax and calm down...like you said earlier...you were right about doing something else and I was wrong...I remove you from Order of Grey Poopon...and I remove the title of Normalcy Bias...you will now be known as shadowstalker...

Im being too uptight...I see it now...

Agent Nanoo is still a Troll!!!

Anyone recommend a destress?

[GaelVictor]

Go walk to Santiago de Compostella and do check in to the forum once a month for an update.


http://www.americanpilgrims.com/camino/history.html

[Violet]

http://theinkblot.com/about.htm
The Inkblot site is a fun test similar to the Rorschach test. We don't use the actual Rorschach cards but we use a set that is very similar in appearance. The test results are completely nonsensical and should not be relied upon in any way, shape, or form (except for a good laugh). Needless to say, we don't actually do any "analysis" of your responses, nor are they stored, kept, or tabulated in any way. It's all just a bloody daft joke, okay?

Im smiling...I get it!!! I read it after id taken the test twice!!!

I must admit when I was reading the questions I was like...serious...no way...junk data...BS...crap...nonsense...etc etc...

Does that mean I need some time out...I get it...turn off the computer and go do something else...Go relax and calm down...like you said earlier...you were right about doing something else and I was wrong...I remove you from Order of Grey Poopon...and I remove the title of Normalcy Bias...you will now be known as shadowstalker...

Im being too uptight...I see it now...

Agent Nanoo is still a Troll!!!

Anyone recommend a destress?

Surgeon, you do not owe it to anyone here to recount your life's darkest sides. That is your private property.

That should not be a prerequisite for people to take you seriously. It's probably the overload of imagery that's caused all this. I've noticed in some other of your posts long lists of links too. Perhaps you can bundle them and refer to them in the group area for people who "wish to know more"...?

It certainly does not help your cause to let others provoke you and start offending them. So, I hope you've had a wonderful destress and we can all meet again soon as new and refreshed souls.

[shadowstalker]

http://theinkblot.com/about.htm
The Inkblot site is a fun test similar to the Rorschach test. We don't use the actual Rorschach cards but we use a set that is very similar in appearance. The test results are completely nonsensical and should not be relied upon in any way, shape, or form (except for a good laugh). Needless to say, we don't actually do any "analysis" of your responses, nor are they stored, kept, or tabulated in any way. It's all just a bloody daft joke, okay?

Im smiling...I get it!!! I read it after id taken the test twice!!!

I must admit when I was reading the questions I was like...serious...no way...junk data...BS...crap...nonsense...etc etc...

Does that mean I need some time out...I get it...turn off the computer and go do something else...Go relax and calm down...like you said earlier...you were right about doing something else and I was wrong...I remove you from Order of Grey Poopon...and I remove the title of Normalcy Bias...you will now be known as shadowstalker...

Im being too uptight...I see it now...

Agent Nanoo is still a Troll!!!

Anyone recommend a destress?

A type of destress list was already posted by many, here on this thread...
This is why it doesn't pay to be angry all the time or tunnel vision when learning/researching anything.

I am not sure if Bill knew the second link was a joke or not, but I do hope you understand what I had been trying to tell you, by seeing things that may not be really there.

And I do hope that you did laugh at yourself after words (cuz you needed it), it's a funny test..

I researched the site when i got there and laughed, then I took the test and laughed harder, and when receiving the results, I just completely lost it....lol

You saw the test to be real (twice no less) but it wasn't, was it, nope it twernt..

Have a good laugh at your mistakes and integrate it within your journey of learning about yourself and others..

It can be an awesome ride if you allow it to be...

P.S. rubber duckies and bow ties are kewl... :p

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Really, Nanoo and Xthesurgeonx, please, for the sake of Avalon, behave like big boys and delete all the insults, dramatics and vile imagery from your posts.
If you won't, I hope for the sake of everyone else, that the Mods will.
It's not even remotely entertaining, and if you would just stick to the facts, I'm sure everyone would appreciate it very much.

Im sorry...its Agent Nanoo trolling people...and then hes doing my head in and im taking it out on other people...

Im sorry too... Scarlet Pimpernel ( thats your new agent name ) i apologise for being cheeky and not very nice ...

hugs

Agent Nanoo Nanoux ( of the Sûreté nationale en Grand Prix )

[Lifebringer]

Well, I just got insulted, and saw right through these lying shrinks of biased ideals of how humans should act, after the centuries of acceptance of this crappy crap they pass off as a good life for some individuals.

I cannot believe that those idiots had the audacity to call me an unproductive citizen. So much for their knowledge and outdated psychosis diagnosis. I gave them a piece of my mind, I didn't mind leaving to awaken them to who I am, and what I've done. I've been successful in education and love of all I come in contact with, because I truly believe us all brothers and sister humans on the Earth experience journey of life evolvement/timeline. I told them it proved that they are as out of touch with the human species, as we've all presumed, and felt. Heartless greedy people who's purpose is to tow the line, regardless of who gets hurt. Ooooo, If i just had a face to face.

It doesn't help that my pc has black screen from not having a back up or partition. Netflix was the last thing I was watching under my hubby's account on my pc, and woke up to a black screen where it comes on, but there is NO desktop. Bad part about it is, my books "Season Of The Witnesses is on my desktop and I can't work on it. Just jotting what comes in on notebook paper or scraps, as the info comes in for it. I was almost finished with book 1 of the trilogy in editing.

So you can see the test while angry and thinking about his war, was not the best. I saw communicating forms. A family Mom, Dad, child and basket like at a picnic. I saw arguing forms. I saw national oceanic boundaries, so they are definately putting me in the 60's category of "non-productive." What artists fit the corporate idea of what is productive?

NONE.

Rorschak can shove it.

[Nat_Lee]

I just read the title of your thread.
I have not read any of the other post ....
I'll read them after ....

I see an E.T. with a big head wearing the snow white evil Queen's cape !

Je vois un E.T. avec une grosse tête et la cape de la méchante reine dans blanche neige et les sept nains !

[xthesurge0nx]

Im sorry too... Scarlet Pimpernel ( thats your new agent name ) i apologise for being cheeky and not very nice ...

hugs

Agent Nanoo Nanoux ( of the Sûreté nationale en Grand Prix )


Apology accepted...im not used to being hugged by another man and it felt weird!!!

I was getting attacked from every direction, not just from here...not just from you...not just for a short period of time but over days...

I had a good sleep and feel better...

I hope it showed others that if Im wrong I have no issue admitting my mistakes...

The original image...after 2 days of looking at it I still see what I saw originally...Im going to take a break for a week concentrate on something else then come back to it with a fresh mind and fresh set of eyes...

Thank you everyone for your comments...you know who you are...

Ive decided to go burn all this stress out in the gym...

I stick by my original thought pattern on the symbols being used as a Subliminal Stimuli & NLP...

When I was taking the test I thought there was something strange about the questions so I was doubting it was real while I was taking the test...I wasnt sure it was real...it wasnt a certainty...I trusted Bill thats why I took the test...and then I laughed when I read the about page thinking he did it to lighten the mood...

I still see what I see...I still believe in my heart that these people are using hand signals for Subliminal Stimuli & NLP...

The NLP Model Of Sensory System Use And The NLP Spelling Strategy

One of the most important claims made by NLP is that people think in specific sensory languages, and these types of thought can be accessed by changing the direction the subject's eyes look to. The following experiment supports this notion, and it's application to memorising the spelling of words.

F. Loiselle at the University of Moncton in New Brunswick, Canada (1985) selected 44 average spellers, as determined by their pretest on memorising nonsense words. Instructions in the experiment, where the 44 were required to memorise another set of nonsense words, were given on a computer screen. The 44 were divided into four subgroups for the experiment.
•Group One were told to visualise each word in the test, while looking up to the left.
•Group Two were told to visualise each word while looking down to the right.
•Group Three were told to visualise each word (no reference to eye position).
•Group Four were simply told to study the word in order to learn it.

The results on testing immediately after were that Group One (who did acually look up left more than the others, but took the same amount of time) increased their success in spelling by 25%, Group Two worsened their spelling by 15%, Group Three increased their success by 10%, and Group Four scored the same as previously. This strongly suggests that looking up left (Visual Recall in NLP terms) enhances spelling, and is twice as effective as simply teaching students to picture the words. Furthermore, looking down right (Kinesthetic in NLP terms) damages the ability to visualise the words.Interestingly, in a final test some time later (testing retention), the scores of Group One remained constant, while the scores of the control group, Group Four, plummeted a further 15%, a drop which was consistent with standard learning studies. The resultant difference in memory of the words for these two groups was 61%.

Thomas Malloy at the University of Utah Department of Psychology completed a study with three groups of spellers, again pretested to find average spellers. One group were taught the NLP spelling strategy of looking up and to the left, one group were taught a strategy of sounding out by phonetics and auditory rules, and one were given no new information. In this study the tests involved actual words. Again, the visual recall spellers improved 25%, and had near 100% retention one week later. The group taught the auditory strategies improved 15% but this score dropped 5% in the following week. The control group showed no improvement.

These studies support the NLP Spelling Strategy specifically, and the NLP notion of Eye Accessing Cues, Sensory system use, and Strategies in general.They are reported in:

•Dilts, R. and Epstein, T., Dynamic Learning, Meta, Capitola, California,1995

The NLP Model of Sensory Representational System Use

The claim that which sensory system you talk in makes a difference to your results with specific clients was tested by Michael Yapko. He had 30 graduate students in counselling, and had them listen to three separate taped trance inductions. Each induction used language from one of the main sensory systems (visual, auditory and kinesthetic). Subjects were assessed before to identify their preference for words from these sensory systems. After each induction, their depth of trance was measured by electromyograph and by asking them how relaxed they felt. On both measures, subjects achieved greater relaxation when their preferred sensory system was used.

•Yapko. M., "The Effects of Matching Primary Representational System Predicates on Hypnotic Relaxation." in the American Journal of Clinical Hypnosis, 23, p169-175, 1981

Mirroring and Rapport

In 1995 a remarkable type of neuron was discovered by researchers working at the University of Palma in Italy (Rizzolatti et alia, 1996; Rizzolatti and Arbib, 1998). The cells, now called "mirror neurons", are found in the pre-motor cortex of monkeys and apes as well as humans. In humans they form part of the specific area called Broca's area, which is also involved in the creation of speech. Although the cells are related to motor activity (ie they are part of the system by which we make kinaesthetic responses such as moving an arm), they seem to be activated by visual input. When a monkey observes another monkey (or even a human) making a body movement, the mirror neurons light up. As they do, the monkey appears to involuntarily copy the same movement it has observed visually. Often this involuntary movement is inhibited by the brain (otherwise the poor monkey would be constantly copying every other monkey), but the resulting mimickery is clearly the source of the saying "monkey see, monkey do".

In human subjects, when this area of the brain is exposed to the magnetic field of transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS), thus reducing conscious control, then merely showing a movie of a person picking up an object will cause the subject to involuntarily copy the exact action with their hand (Fadiga et alia, 1995). This ability to copy a fellow creature's actions as they do them has obviously been very important in the development of primate social intelligence. It enables us to identify with the person we are observing. When this area of the brain is damaged in a stroke, copying another's actions becomes almost impossible. The development of speech has clearly been a result of this copying skill. Furthermore, there is increasing evidence that autism and Aspergers syndrome are related to unusual activity of the mirror neurons. This unusual activity results in a difficulty the autistic person has understanding the inner world of others, as well as a tendency to echo speech parrot-fashion and to randomly copy others' movements.

Mirror neurons respond to the facial expressions associated with emotions as well, so that they enable the person to directly experience the emotions of those they observe. William Condon has meticulously studied videotapes of conversations, confirming these patterns. He found that in a successful conversation, movements such as a smile or a head nod are involuntarily matched by the other person within 1/15 of a second. Within minutes of beginning the conversation, the volume, pitch and speech rate (number of sounds per minute) of the peoples voices match each other. This is correlated with a synchronising of the type and rate of breathing. Even general body posture is adjusted over the conversation so that the people appear to match or mirror each other (Condon 1982, p 53-76). As a person adjusts their facial expression and other nonverbal behaviour to match others' they actually use the same pattern of brain activation that the other person is using. When their mirror neurons respond and they copy the person's actions, they thus feel what that person is feeling. This results in what researchers call "emotional contagion" - what NLP calls rapport (Hatfield et alia, 1994).

•Bandler, R. and Grinder, J. Frogs Into Princes, Real People Press, Moab, Utah, 1979
•Bolstad, R. RESOLVE: A New Model Of Therapy Crown House, Bancyfelin, Wales, 2002
•Condon, W. S. "Cultural Microrhythms" p 53-76 in Davis, M. (ed) Interactional Rhythms:Periodicity in Communicative Behaviour Human Sciences Press, New York, 1982
•Fadiga, L., Fogassi, G., Pavesi, G. and Rizzolatti, G. "Motor Facilitation during action observation: a magnetic stimulation study" p 2608-2611 in Journal of Neurophysiology, No. 73, 1995
•Hatfield, E., Cacioppo, J. and Rapson, R. Emotional Contagion Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, 1994
•Palubeckas, A.J. "Rapport in the therapeutic relationship and its relationship to pacing" in Dissertation Abstracts International 42(6), 2543-B 2544-B, Boston University School of Education, 127pp, Order = 8126743
•Rizzolatti, G., Fadiga, L., Gallese, V. and Fogassi, L. "Premotor cortex and the recognition of motor actions" p 131-141 in Cognitive Brain Research, No. 3, 1996
•Rizzolatti,G. and Arbib, M.A. "Language within our grasp" p 188-194 in Trends in Neuroscience, No. 21, 1998
•Sandhu, D.S., Reeves, T.G. and Portes, P.R. "Cross-cultural counseling and neurolinguistic mirroring with Native American adolescents" p 106-118 in Journal of Multicultural Counselling and Development, Vol 21, No. 2, April, 1993

The NLP Model Of Association-Dissociation And The NLP Phobia/Trauma Process

Several small scale studies support the success of the NLP Phobia cure, which is based on the NLP model of Dissociation. Here are a collection. In this case the treatment, which takes about 10 minutes, is the standard one taught on NLP Practitioner courses.
•Denholtz M.S., and Mann, E.T., "An automated audiovisual treatment of phobias administered by non-professionals" in the Journal of Behaviour Therapy and Experimental Psychiatry (6, p 111-115), 1975. The first report of the use of the technique, suggesting it may have some merits.
•Allen, K., "An Investigation of the Effectiveness of Neuro Linguistic Programming Procedures in treating Snake Phobias" (in Dissertation Abstracts International 43, 861B), 1982. This study of 36 undergraduate students with snake phobias found the NLP process behaviourally as successful as far longer behaviourist Massed Systemic Desensitisation regimes, and more convincing subjectively to the participants.
•Einspruch, E. "Neurolinguistic Programming in the Treatment of Phobias" in Psychotherapy in Private Practice, 6(1): 91-100, 1988. In this study from the University of Miami Phobia Trauma Clinic, 31 phobic clients were seen in group therapy, and 17 in individual therapy. The subjects were given questionnaires before and after therapy, and these suggest that the technique is successful for symptoms of both anxiety and depression in clients with phobias.
•Koziey, P., and McLeod, G., "Visual kinesthetic Dissociation in Treatment of Victims of Rape" in Professional Psychology; Research and Practice, 18(3); 276-282,1987. The study, from the University of Alberta, showed the reduction of anxiety in teenage rape victims, and recommends the use of the process in cases of trauma.

Dr David Muss did a pilot study on this method, with 70 members of the British West Midlands Police Force, all of whom had witnessed major disasters such as the Lockerbie air crash. Of these 19 qualified as having PTSD. The time between trauma and treatment varied from six weeks to ten years. All participants reported that after an average of three sessions they were completely free of intrusive memories and other PTSD symptoms. For most, one session was enough to solve the problem. Followup ranged from 3 months to 2 years, and all gains were sustained over that time (Muss, 1991). This kind of success is almost unprecedented in the field of psychotherapy. Even more important, it can be achieved by anyone with a basic understanding of NLP, and does not depend on the magical talents of a rare "expert".

•Muss, D. "A New Technique For Treating Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder" in British Journal of Clinical Psychology, 30, p 91-92, 1991
•Muss, Dr D. The Trauma Trap. Doubleday, London, 1991

The Use Of Submodalities

Many NLP techniques are based on the changing of specific qualities (called submodalities) of the internal pictures, sounds and body responses a subject uses. Research on these was occuring before NLP developed, and is summarised in the back of the book

•Gordon, D., Therapeutic Metaphors, Meta, Cupertino, California, 1978.


Studies show, for example, that the submodalities in which a client views a placebo (how colourful the pill packaging is, say) will affect the result. Other studies show that changes in the submodalities in one sensory system will automatically result in changes in the other sensory systems and in emotional changes (so if you change the way your internal picture looks, you'll feel different). As an example, office workers in a room repainted blue will complain of the cold, even though the thermostat is constant, but will stop complaining if it is repainted yellow. These responses are physiological, so that sounds of about 80 decibels produce a 37% decrease in stomach contractions (similar to the result of "fear", and likely to be percieved as such, as the writers of scores for thriller movies know). These examples come from:
•Buckalew, L.W., and Ross, S. , "Relationship of Perceptual Characteristics to Efficacy of Placebos" in Psychological Reports 49, p955-961, 1981
•Berry, P. "Effect of Coloured Illumination Upon Percieved Temperature" in Journal of Applied Psychology, 45(4) p248-250
•Smith, E.L. and Laird, D.A., "The Loudness of Auditory Stimuli Which Affect Stomach Contractions In Healthy Human Beings" in Journal of the Acoustic Society of America, 2, p94-98, 1930

The swish is a submodality technique with a wide range of applications. It has been used successfully to resolve compulsive behaviours such as nail biting (Wilhelm, 1991) or explosive violence (Masters et alia, 1991), as well as to deal with anxiety conditions (Andreas and Andreas, 1992).
•Wilhelm, F.A. "Submodality change and nail chewing. Empirical test of an imaginative method ('Swish')"
•Masters, B.J., Rawlins, M.E., Rawlins, L.D. and Weidner, J. "The NLP Swish Pattern: An innovative visualising technique" p 79-90 in Journal of Mental Healthy Counselling, Volume 13, No 1, January 1991
•Andreas, S. and Andreas, C. "Neuro-Linguistic Programming" p 14-35 in Budman, S.H., Hoyt, M.F. and Friedman, S. The First Session In Brief Therapy Guildford Press, New York, 1992

Anchoring

In orthodox psychological literature, the NLP technique of Anchoring is known as Classical Conditioning, as developed 100 years ago by Ivan Pavlov (who induced dogs to salivate by ringing a bell just before feeding them, and then ringing the bell alone). In one of the earliest studies of classical conditioning, an eleven month old boy (Albert) was introduced to a white rat. Initially, Albert liked the rat and wanted to play with it. However, each time he reached for it, the experimenter nmade a loud noise behind him, frightening him. After five such noises, Albert had anchored fear to the rat, and panicked whenever he saw it. Having induced this phobia by anchoring, the experimenters were then able to remove it similarly (though this is clearly an ethically dubious study both for Albert and the rat!). Research from p 40 in :
•Davison, G.C., and Neale, J.M., Abnormal Psychology, John Wiley & Sons, New York, 1986

In a controlled research study published in Germany (Reckert, 1994), Horst Reckert describes how in one session he was able to remove students' test anxiety using this simple technique, described below. In another study, John Craldell discusses the use of anchoring to access a "self-caring-state" useful for adult children of alcoholics (Craldell, 1989), and in a third study, Mary Thalgott discusses the use of anchors to support children with learning disabilities (Thalgott, 1986).
•Craldell, J.S. "Brief treatment for adult children of alcoholics: Accessing resources for self care" p 510-513 in Psychotherapy, Volume 26, No 4, Winter, 1989
•Thalgott, M.R. "Anchoring: A "Cure" For Epy" p 347-352 in Academic Therapy, Volume 21, No 3, January 1986
•Reckert, H.W. "Test anxiety removed by anchoring in just one session?" in Multimind, NLP Aktuell, No 6, November/December 1994

Of the hundreds of examples of anchoring principles applied in an innovative way, without the name "Anchoring", one stands out for me. It is Ellen Langer's study of two groups of elderly men (aged 75-80 years), at Harvard University. For 5 days, these two comparable groups of men lived in a closely supervised retreat centre out in the country. One group was engaged in a series of tasks encouraging them to think about the past (to write an autobiography, to discuss the past etc). The other group was engaged in a series of tasks which actually anchored them back into a past time (1959). They wrote an autobiography only up to 1959, describing that time as "now", watched 1959 movies, had 1959 music playing on the "radios", and lived with only the artifacts available in 1951. Before and after the 5 days, both groups were studied on a number of criteria associated with aging. While the first group stayed constant or actually deteriorated on these criteria, the second group dramatically improved on physical health measures such as joint flexibility, vision, and muscle breadth, as well as on IQ tests. They were anchored back to being 50 years old, by the sights and sounds of 1959.
•Langer, E.J. Mindfulness, Addison Wesley, Reading, Massachusetts, 1989

The NLP Allergy Process, described below, is an example of a researched NLP technique using this anchoring principle.

The NLP Allergy Process

Here a research base exists outside of NLP. Several studies suggest that allergic responses can be generated (and thus removed) by classical conditioning (which in NLP is called Anchoring). In these studies, an allergy inducing chemical is given to mice, for example, at the same time as a camphor smell is released. In following sessions, the smell of camphor will induce an allergic response. See as an example:
•"Pavlovian Conditioning of Rat Mucosal Mast Cells to Secrete Rat Mast Cell Protease II" in Science, 6 January 1989, p83-85

Small studies on the NLP technique itself are also supportive. Dr Judith Swack studied ten people who had a variety of allergies (cats, dust, flowers, cigarette smoke etc). Seven of the ten responded to the ten minute allergy process by become completely response-free. Over two years, the results reduced, as three of the seven regained some allergic response. Interestingly, of the three who initially got no success with the allergy process, two became allergy free once Swack used other NLP techniques (Time Line Therapy(, the Compulsion Blowout and the Trauma Process) with them. The overall success of NLP in treating allergies may be close to 100%, but the success of the 10 minute process itself, with no other interventions, is initially 70% and on long term followup is 40%.
•Swack, J.A., "A Study of Initial Response and Reversion Rates of Subjects Treated With The Allergy technique", in Anchor Point, Vol 6, No2, Feb 1992

Language Pattern Use

Dr Thomas Macroy at Utah State University did a detailed study of 31 families, members of which were asked to rate their level of satisfaction with the family. Next, a family session was held for each family and recorded on audiotape. The audiotapes were analysed for the occurrence of 150 specific metamodel patterns. In those families where people were less satisfied, substantially more metamodel patterns were being used, especially deletions and unspecified nouns. This study supports the notion that challenging metamodel patterns is an important way to enhance the ability to achieve satisfaction socially (Macroy, 1978).
•Macroy, T.D. "Linguistic surface structures in family interaction" in Dissertation Abstracts International, 40 (2) 926-B, Utah State University, 133 pp, Order = 7917967, 1978

Donald Moine at the University of Oregon studied 45 minute long audiocassette recordings of insurance salespeople. His sample included top producers from their companies, as well as "average" producers of sales. The highly successful salespeople used far more embedded suggestions, complex equivalents, mind reading, metaphors, pacing, and modal operators of possibility. This artfully vague and suggestive language was part of their skill in enabling others to change (Moines, 1981).
•Moine, D. "A psycholinguistic study of the patterns of persuasion used by successful salespeople" in Dissertation Abstracts International, 42 (5), 2135-B, University of Oregon, 271pp, Order = 8123499, 1981

Dr Lewis Baxter (1994) showed that clients with obsessive compulsive disorder had raised activity in neural networks inside the caudate nucleus of the brain (demonstrated on PET scans of the brain). Drugs such as Prozac raise serotonin levels and the caudate nucleus activity is thus reduced. Baxter found that when clients repeated a simple reframe to themselves, the PET scan showed the same raising of serotonin levels and the same lowering of activity in the caudate nucleus.
•Baxter L. R. "Positron emission tomography studies of cerebral glucose metabolism in obsessive compulsive disorder." in Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, 1994, 55 Supplement: p 54-9.

Hypnosis And Communication With The Unconscious Mind

The research on the results of Hypnosis in general, and Ericksonian Hypnosis in particular amounts to many volumes. NLP Practitioners have contributed to that research, as for example in the study done by Lynn Timpany (of Transformations NLP Consultants Ltd, New Zealand) into the use of a one session hypnosis treatment for morning sickness and anxiety in 12 women who were pregnant. Of those 12 women, two had sleeping problems which disappeared as a result of the session, five of the eight who were vomiting noticed a significant improvement, and two went from being nauseous virtually 100% of the time to feeling ill less than 20% of the time.
•Timpany, L., "A Study of The Effectiveness of Single Session NLP Treatment For Pregnancy Treatment" in Anchor Point, June 1996, p18-19

The literature about hypnosis documents some remarkable successes with it's use in a variety of fields. As a reference, see:
•Crasilneck, H.B. and Hall, J.A. , Clinical Hypnosis: Principles and Applications, Allyn and Bacon, Boston, 1985

Studies show that hypnosis can over-ride what would have been considered "incurable congenital conditions". For example, the British Medical Journal in 1952 published a study of a 16 year old boy with congenital ichthyosis erythroderma, whose skin was covered in a horny layer which weeped fluid at the joints. In a week following hypnosis, small areas of the body were clear, and the results spread to the rest of the body over the second week. (above text, p376). In one of the clearest demonstrations of the ability to communicate with a person's (literally) unconscious mind, D. Cheek induced 3000 fully anaesthetised patients to produce hand movements as signals for "yes" and "no", obviously without their conscious knowledge.
•Cheek, D., "Awareness of Meaningful Sounds Under General Anaesthesia." in Theoretical and Clinical aspects of Hypnosis, Symposium Specialists, 1981

Time Line Therapy (And Treatment Of Medical Conditions Such As Asthma)

A one year research study (May 1993-May 1994) into the treatment of asthmatics, using NLP, was done in Denmark. Results have already been presented at a number of European conferences, including the Danish Society of Allergology Conference (August 1994), and the European Respiratory Society Conference (Nice, France, October 1994). The study was run by General Practitioner Jorgen Lund and NLP Master Practitioner Hanne Lund, from Herning, Denmark. Patients were selected from 8 general practices. 30 were included in the NLP Intervention group, and 16 in the control group. All received basic medical care including being supplied with medication. Most had never heard of NLP before, and many were completely unbelieving in it, or terrified of it. Their motivation to do NLP was generally low. The intervention group had an initial day introduction to NLP and Time Line Therapy, and then 3-36 hours (average 13) of NLP intervention. The NLP focus was not mainly on the asthma; it was on how the people lived their daily lives. The interventions used were:
•Clear anger, sadness, fear, hurt, guilt and any limiting decisions using T.L.Therapy
•Use the NLP Trauma cure on the origin of the asthma.
•Use the NLP allergy cure.

The results affected both the peoples general lives, and their asthma. Patients tended to describe their change subjectively as enabling them to be "more open", get "colossal strength and self confidence" "a new life" etc. The lung capacity of adult asthmatics tends to decrease by 50ml a year average. This occurred in the control group. Meanwhile the NLP group increased their lung capacity by an average of 200ml (like reversing four years of damage in a year!). Daily variations in peak flow (an indicator of unstable lung function) began at 30%-40%. In the control group they reduced to 25% but in the NLP group they fell to below 10% . Sleep disorders in the control group began at 70% and dropped to 30%. In the NLP group they began at 50% and dropped to ZERO. Use of asthma inhalers and acute medication in the NLP group fell to near ZERO. Hanne Lund points out that the implications of this project reach far beyond asthma management. She says "We consider the principles of this integrated work valuable in treatment of patients with any disease, and the next step will be to train medical staff in this model." Hanne Lund can be reached at: NLP Creative Kommunikationa, Bredgade 11, DK 7400 Herning, Denmark

Use Of NLP In Psychotherapy

A study of NLP use in Psychotherapy was organised by Martina Genser-Medlitsch and Peter Sch(?)tz in Vienna, Austria in 1996. The test sample of 55 therapy clients and the control group of 60 clients on a waiting list were matched by pattern of symptoms, age, family circumstances, education level, therapy experience etc. The test group were seen by members of a group of 37 NLP Master Practitioners (22 men and 15 women) who used a full range of NLP techniques (reframing, setting outcomes, parts work, metamodel, metaphor, trance, time line work, anchoring, belief changes, submodality shifts, strategies, and trauma-phobia process). Clients were assessed with a number of questionnaires before therapy, after therapy, and at 6 month followup. The assessments checked ocurrence of individual discomforts, clinical psychological symptoms, coping strategies used for stress management, locus of control (whether the people felt in control of their lives), and subjective evaluation of the therapy by the client and the therapist. Diagnoses (ICD9) ranged from schizo-affective and other psychotic disorders, through alcohol dependence, endogenous depressions, psychosomatic disorders, and other issues to post traumatic stress disorders. These disorders were more severe initially in the test group than in the control group on all scales, and their use of psychiatric drugs was higher. On average, treatments lasted 12 sessions (1-48) over a period averaging 20 weeks.

After treatment 1.9% of clients who had had NLP therapy felt no different, 38,9% felt better and 59.3% felt considerably better. None of those treated felt worse. In the control group meanwhile, 47.5% felt no different, 29.5% felt better and 6.6% felt considerably better. 9.8% of the controls felt worse and 4.9% felt considerably worse. At 6 month followup, 52% of clients who had had therapy felt considerably better, 28% felt better, 12% felt there was no change, and 8% felt worse. Meanwhile, the therapists rated 49% of their treatments as having met objectives well, 47% as having somewhat met objectives, and 4% as of little or no success.

After therapy, the clients who received NLP scored higher in their perception of themselves as in control of their lives (with a difference at 10% significance level), reduced their use of drugs, used more successful coping methods to respond to stressful situations, and reduced symptoms such as anxiety, aggression, paranoid thinking, social insecurity, compulsive behaviours, and depression. the research showed that some positive changes also ocurred in the control group and could not be accounted for by the therapy, including some of the reduction in psychosomatic symptoms, social isolation and some paranoid thinking. Altogether, positive changes in 25 of 33 symptom areas (76%) occurred as a result of the therapy, positive changes in 3 areas occurred in both groups, and no significant changes occured in 5 areas.

Amongst the group who received therapy, there were some interesting differences. On 63.15% of the symptom scales, changes were more pronounced in those under 36 years than those over 35 years old. On 40% of the symptom dimensions, men improved more than women (especially in the areas of feeling more in control of life, and reducing paranoid thoughts, aggression, depression and anxiety). Clients receiving longer durations of therapy (11-48 sessions, as compared to 1-10 sessions) had more gains (especially in relief from compulsive and psychotic behaviours) at the end of therapy, but also accounted for more of the loss of success at the 6 month followup.

Use of NLP in Business Coaching

A study of NLP use in business coaching was done by Dr Trygve Roos in 2002. He followed up business clients 6-24 months after (usually single session) coaching and found that the gains they had made in work performance, personal behaviour and perceived life quality were dramatic and sustained over that time. Dr Roos points out that management research consistently emphasises the interrelatedness of these three types of outcomes. Many business clients, he found, chose to work on what would be seen as personal issues, which none-the-less had a profound effect on their business achievement. He gives examples (Roos, 2002, p 4) of a client with a phobia of flying which had altered all his career choices, and a client with a phobia of pigeons who had structured all his business meetings to avoid the need to walk past public parks. As an example of the efficiency of his work with specific issues, he worked with 25 clients who wanted to give up smoking cigarettes (Roos, 2002, p 91). 19 ceased smoking after a single 45 minute session, and another one after two sessions. At follow-up 24 months later, only 5 of the original 25 had started smoking again, a success rate of 75%, over twice the usual best results of longer aversion and other therapies for smoking.
•Roos, T. Mental Coaching, Trafford Publishing, Victoria, Canada, 2002

Summary

None of the above studies are large enough to constitute scientific "proof" (with the possible exception of D. Cheek's 3000 unconscious patients giving hand signals). What they do is give us reason to research further, and grounds for using NLP in an experimental way. The situation remains only a little improved from the way Eric Einspruch and Bruce Foreman saw it in their 1985 review of research on NLP; "Many skilled NLP Practitioners have a wealth of clinical data indicating that this model is highly effective. Clearly these Practitioners would provide a service to the field by presenting their data in the literature so they may be critically evaluated."
•Einspruch, E.L., and Forman, B.D., "Observations Concerning Research Literature on Neuro-Linguistic Programming", in Journal of Counselling Psychology, Vol 32, 4, p589-596, 1985

Dr Richard Bolstad is an NLP Master Practitioner and Trainer who has worked with clients individually and as a trainer of groups since 1990. He can be contacted at PO Box 35111, Browns Bay, Auckland, New Zealand, Phone/Fax: +64-9-478-4895 E-mail: learn@transformations.net.nz Website: http://www.transformations.net.nz

Source: http://www.transformations.net.nz/trancescript/research-on-nlp.html

[xthesurge0nx]

Its a common way to get people to do something used by a select number of organisations and people associated with those organisations - the organisations & people being linked to the Illuminati either directly or indirectly as puppets selling a product...they use techiques such as NLP to make you buy their products or accept what they say...like everything doesnt work for everyone...but thats ok its only a majority you need to convince since we lve in a society where majority rules...

[Lifebringer]

So this is a joke? Ha..ha.

As serious as I keep myself, unless you tell me it's a joke, most times, I don't catch this type of humor. Like the lottery scratch off of 2 million they pass off as gags.

Didn't find that one funny until I passed one around. Haha.

Guess you got me on that one. Should have known a phsychiatrist as Ricky Ricardo would say, wun put his stuff ow dare like dat.

[xthesurge0nx]

Ken Ward's Mind Mastery Course - NLP Anchoring

Your owner's manual for your brain - that you never received or never read.

Your can change your state of mind or mood easily using the techniques of anchoring. This means you can, for example, stay calm and relaxed whatever other people are doing or however provoking they may be.

You do this by anchoring states of mind so you can fire the anchor and establish the state instantly.

Anchoring

Anchoring is reminiscent of Pavlov's experiments with dogs. Pavlov sounded a bell as the animal was given food. The animals salivated when they saw the food. After some parings of the bell and the food, the bell alone elicited salivation.

Anchors are stimuli that call forth states of mind - thoughts and emotions. For example, touching a knuckle of the left hand could be an anchor. Some anchors are involuntary. So the smell of bread may take you back to your childhood. A tune may remind you of a certain person. A touch can bring back memories and the past states. These anchors work automatically and you may not be aware of the triggers.

Establishing an anchor means producing the stimuli (the anchor) when the resourceful state is experienced so that the resourceful state is pared to the anchor. For example, touching the knuckle of the left hand when the resourceful state is experienced to pair the two events.

Activating or firing the anchor means producing the anchor after it has been conditioned so that the resourceful state occurs.For example, touching the knuckle of the left hand after the anchor has been established so that this action produced the resourceful state.

This page is concerned with creating anchors that produce resourceful states at will.

Automatic Unconscious Anchors

We are affected by anchors throughout our lives and go into a good mood or a bad one ... feel motivated to do one thing or to do another ... feel confident and resourceful or the opposite. We are responding to anchors, but we may not know what they are.

These anchors have been built up accidentally. In fact, we often think that our mood has nothing to do with us and that our moods occur by chance.

Designer Anchors

Designer anchors are what this page is about. You use them to produce the state of mind or mood you need for a given situation. You enter an interview calm and relaxed. You control your temper. You turn on the enthusiasm you need to do a task.

First of all we will assemble the ingredients for anchors and then give the whole procedure for establishing your designer anchors. You can use any resourceful state, but here we will us 'being calm and relaxed' as the example.

Although we have dealth with the subject of establishing anchors in some depth in this page, it is actually extremely easy to establish them!

The Resource State

You have all the resources you require to achieve whatever goal you want. This is a presupposition.

You can recall any memories when you have experienced the required state. Recall them vividly and you recall the state. So you can recall any memories of being extremely calm and relaxed to get the resource for your anchor.

You might recall being calm and relaxed at work, for example, or from a time when you were at home or enjoying your leisure time.

To vivify the memory use instructions as:


Recall a time when you were calm and relaxed. As you go back to that time now step into your body and you are seeing now what you see in the memory, hearing now what you heard in the memory, and feeling now, what you feel in the memory.

Even people who think they have no resourceful memory can find such a memory perhaps in a different context.

I have never felt that way ...

If you cannot recall a situation where you had the resource you want to anchor, you can get the resource by imagining yourself in a situation where you had that resource.

Everyone has the capacity to empathise with another. When listening to another you may have experienced the emotions and states that they felt when they had the experience.

Types of Anchors

Anchors can be visual, auditory or kenesthetic.

Visual Anchors

You can use visual anchors to anchor the resourceful state. You can use external or internal anchors. For example, you could use a figure on a bracelet to anchor being calm and relaxed. The external anchor always has to be there for you to use. You may find it relaxing and calming to view a certain landscape, but unless you can carry it around with you, it is of limited value. You can however use an internal image of the landscape to anchor your resourceful feeling.

Most visual designer anchors are internal. Some examples of visual anchors are:
•Symbols. For example, you could use a circle as a symbol for being calm and relaxed and anchor this to your state.
•People, such as a trusted friend or mentor ... or even a person from history or current affairs.
•Various objects and landscapes can be used as anchors for being calm and relaxed. For example, you could imagine:◦A teddy bear
◦A flower
◦Etc

Auditory Anchors

You can use a sound as an anchor. Like the visual anchors, sounds can be internal or external. Many people have used whistling as an anchor - they whistle when they feel afraid!

You can use an internal voice as an anchor. For example, you could anchor the phrase 'Calm and Relaxed'.

Kinesthetic Anchors.

Examples of kinesthetic anchors are:
•Imagining a comforting hand on your shoulder
•Making a circle with the second finger and the thumb
•Touching yourself on the hand or other unobtrusive place. You can choose a point and treat it like an acupressure point - pressing on it to fire the required state.

Visual, Kinesthetic and Auditory Anchors

You can use a combination of anchors such as seeing a certain symbol in your mind's eye. Hearing something said - for example, Calm and Relaxed. And Press your hand in a special place.

Installing Anchors
1.Decide on the state you want to anchor. For example being calm and relaxed.
2.Choose an anchor (or anchors) that you wish to trigger the resourceful state.
3.Recall a memory or imagine a situation where you can experience the state. So recall or imagine a time when you experienced the state.
4.Active the anchor or anchors when the experience is vivid and you are in the desired state.
5.Release the anchors when the experience begins to fade.If you keep applying the anchor when the experience is fading, then you will anchor a drop in calmness and relaxation!
6.Do something else - open your eyes ... count down from 10 to break state and distract yourself.
7.Repeat the steps several times, each time making the memory more vivid. This is not actually required when the anchor is established at the high point of the experience. However, you can strengthen the anchor by establishing it at the high point of several such experiences.
8.Apply the anchor and check that the required state occurs.
9.Future pace the situation where you want to experience the desired state. Fire the anchor to check that it creates a sufficiently resourced state..
10.Check the anchor the next day to ensure it is a permanent anchor.

Tips

•The anchor (or anchors) should be fired in exactly the same way every time you link them to the resourceful experience.
•Anchor at the high point of the experience containing the resourceful state.
•If you do not experience the state when future pacing and especially if you experience anxiety, then stop applying the anchor. (You will anchor the negative state!)
•There is a knowingness which makes anchoring work that is established by the unconscious mind.
•You can strengthen the anchor by repeating the above process over several days.
•If you are in a situation where you experience the desired state in reality, then you can reestablish the anchor to that situation

Source: http://www.trans4mind.com/personal_development/mindMastery/anchoring.htm

[xthesurge0nx]

I tried to make Psychological Warfare, Propaganda, Neuro Linguistic Programming, and Subliminal Stimuli Illegal on the British public for political and unethical means and the governmnt did not accept my petitions so this information was kept from the British people...

[xthesurge0nx]

Just so people know where I currently stand and why Im so uptight although I fully understand that it will not be shared by many and will probably open me up to being a target of verbal abuse...Im just being honest...

Because of what I have come to understand...I am ready for civil war...Im in a war mindframe...and Im not fighting for my country Im fighting for my life...

Staying ethical...and doing the right thing...is one of the hardest things i have ever had to do in this time of utter betrayal from the people I would have give my life to defend...

Let me assure the British Government that not if but when the good men wake up and pick up arms to remove these traitors from power, I will be standing on the front line ready to give my life for freedom and justice to be restored...

Spraying chemicals on people and then having the nerve to tell Syria using chemical weapons is wrong...

IMO Wanted War criminal Tony Blair intentionally had Fluoride put in the drinking water which increases the risk of Cancer...It was Tony Blair who wanted it put in...and he is getting away with warcrimes because he is related to Queen Elizabeth who is also related to David Cameron who is related to Boris Johnson, and Mrs Bush who is mother of knight of Eulogia George Walker Bush (Temporary), and Hillary Clinton etc etc...Elizabeth is said to be an Illegal Queen through Edward IV...and linked to the Illuminati through Ernst II a known Illuminati member...Ernest I, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha was Queen Elizabeth II Windsor Saxe-Coburg and Gothas great great great grandfather...Ernst II was the son of Ernst I which makes Ernst II the great great great uncle of Queen Elizabeth II.

Fluoride in toothpaste...mouthwash...baby formula...attempted murder...they get round the law by putting just under the legal amout of Fluoride in lots of different products...

Agenda 21...as above so below...

Eugenics...

Paedophilia...

Drugs...

Mixing Mind Control & the Occult...

Murder...

Human Sacrifice...

Psychological Warfare...

Propaganda...

Neuro Linguistic Programming...

Subliminal Stimuli...

Weather Warfare...

Chemtrails...

Coverup up crimes under the BS of National Secrity...

Allegations of Time Travel...

Extraterrestrials...

Fake Alien Invasions..

False Flag Attacks...

Changing Warcrimes Legislation to suit the war criminal....

Changing Law to suit the paedophile not the victim...

Censorship...

Cameras everywhere...

Implants...

PRISM...

Space Weapons...

Skinning Children Alive...and drinking their blood...

The list goes on and on...its absolute madness whats going on, its a free for all...theyre like a pack of wolves hunting...and Im finding it difficult to understand how the good people can maintain their anger so well considering people are attempteing to murder you and your family (including myself)...and the best thing is, their using your money to do it...now that last part is funny...

They have an agenda...and are nearly complete...they're working 24/7 365...theyre not stopping...

what I have come to understand from witness and victim testimony I believe a Zionist Nazi

Dr Dean Burk Phd National Cancer Institute - Fluoride "amounts to public murder on a grand scale"


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Retired Neurosurgeon and Author Dr Russell Blaylock MD - Fluoride's Deadly Secret


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Professor of Chemistry Paul Connett - Fluoride is Genocide - Everything You Need to Know


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Fluoride - Expert Testimony - Doctors, Professors, Neurotoxicists, Dentists, Scientists, Chemists


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Retired Neurosurgeon and Author Dr Russell Blaylock MD - Chemtrails - Human Depopulation - 2013


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Retired USDA Biologist Francis Mangels - Geoengineering Interview by John Whyte


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Air Force Chemtrail Whistleblower Exposes Geoengineering


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[Bill Ryan]

Fluoride in toothpaste...mouthwash...baby formula...attempted murder...
Agenda 21...
Eugenics...
Paedophilia...
Drugs...
Mixing Mind Control & the Occult...
Murder...
Human Sacrifice...
Psychological Warfare...
Propaganda...
Neuro Linguistic Programming...
Subliminal Stimuli...
Weather Warfare...
Chemtrails...
Coverup up crimes under the BS of National Secrity...
Allegations of Time Travel...
Extraterrestrials...
Fake Alien Invasions..
False Flag Attacks...
Changing Warcrimes Legislation to suit the war criminal....
Changing Law to suit the paedophile not the victim...
Censorship...
Cameras everywhere...
Implants...
PRISM...
Space Weapons...
Skinning Children Alive...and drinking their blood...
The list goes on and on...


Yes, I share all those concerns, and I and many others here could double or triple the length of your list.

But nothing on your list has anything to do with perceived shapes hidden in designs on a passport page. That may be slipping into either delusion or paranoia -- and at the least, doesn't help your own credibility when you want to draw attention to something really important. It may be wise to 'choose your battles', as they say.

My advice: stay focused on what is (a) important for us all and (b) incontrovertibly evident. Then you're on solid ground.

Wild speculation about shapes (what one sees is at least sometimes in the eye of the beholder), and handshakes, has nothing to do with (here are a few more items for you!):

geoengineering
planetary financial manipulation
ecological destruction
satellite terrorism
or World War Three.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

sometimes one must squeeze the toothpaste with the cap on to find the cavity.

i guess i was the cap and the information applied the pressure but in the end you found your self and in better shape from whence you came

best hugs and peace

Naniu

[xthesurge0nx]

Bill serious you can lay off with the delusion or paranoia stuff...The crappy thing is Bill Im %110 sane Ive had the all clear from Drs I have never suffered from any Delusion or paranoia...

This forum isnt the place for me Bill...when I attempt to put things together people keep character assassinating...and I dont like to be around people who are mature and intelligent enough to understand what the words mean...and how to use words to change others opinions about a person...thats a sly trick Bill...really is...

Ever since I posted that video the other day and asked you a question people have been character assassinating...and then you just joined in with your delusion or paranoia comment... when you say that Bill remember im not the one doing all these things...

Im against these people Bill...the difference is I believe we should do it quick and get it over with...

Whats the problem with going from the hunted to the hunter? I mean theyve been doing it to us for years...and if you have to resort to character assassination...then your not the man I thought you were...at least Im honest...

Good Bye Avalon...

Stay Safe...Chin Up...Keep Fighting...We are winning...

[Bill Ryan]

-------

And with that last post, I think we can close this thread. xthesurge0nx is leaving us, and we wish him well.