Gen. Bert Stubblebine (Gnostic Media Interview) - Sept 13, 2013

[Dennis Leahy]

Gnostic Media: "An Exclusive Interview with General Albert Stubblebine" - #176


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1r1bgaQ2Jg

If you research 9/11, you know who General Albert "Bert" Stubblebine is. This is a new interview, and though I am just listening to it myself right now, I think Stubblebine is one of the most important voices in 9/11 truth, so it has to be worthy of a thread.

Dennis

[Bob]

Good Going Dennis - I was going to start a very in-depth thread on him, plus his good buddy dr. Death (Alexander) as some of my DC on the hill friends like to call him.

These guys:
http://www.socom.mil/pages/jointspecialoperationscommand.aspx

are the current incarnation where Stubblebine started when he commanded the mind war programs. Psiops, disinformation, implant concepts.

[gripreaper]

Dennis, thanks for bringing this to the forefront. I’ve been waiting for this for a long time, as there are very few high up in the hierarchy of military intelligence (an oxymoron) who would ever come forward and admit the 9-11 official story is BS as well as admit the agenda of steering consciousness for nefarious reasons, the Aldous Huxley/Wasson connection, Edward Bernays and so forth.

I tried to get this discussion going some time ago as I often listen to Jan Irvin and have followed his unveiling of the mind manipulation agendas while not even being aware of it, and conversely the Trivium, how to think critically and not become a part of the system. My thread went nowhere. Hopefully this one will.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?50087-Huxley-Brothers-Wasson-Terrence-McKenna-Esalen-Psyhcidelics-2012-and-MK-Ultra

Bert woke up late and is now sounding the clarion call of awakening, yet he still believes we have a choice between freedom and slavery, while I feel that we have already crossed the Rubicon, jumped the shark, and are so deeply ensconced in the slave system, which is so deep, so pervasive, so subtle, so soothing and enticing, that the window of opportunity, the door left ajar is about to be slammed shut.


his good buddy dr. Death (Alexander) as some of my DC on the hill friends like to call him.

Bob, would you say that those (your friends on the hill) who have been doing the bidding of the agenda in DC are waking up to the agenda as Bert has, and are starting to do something about it? I’m not familiar with who Dr Alexander is but I think I can extrapolate for now.

[Bob]

Dennis, thanks for bringing this to the forefront. I’ve been waiting for this for a long time, as there are very few high up in the hierarchy of military intelligence (an oxymoron) who would ever come forward and admit the 9-11 official story is BS as well as admit the agenda of steering consciousness for nefarious reasons, the Aldous Huxley/Wasson connection, Edward Bernays and so forth. I tried to get this discussion going some time ago as I often listen to Jan Irvin and have followed his unveiling of the mind manipulation agendas while not even be aware of it, and conversely the Trivium, how to think critically and not become a part of the system. My thread went nowhere. Hopefully this one will.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?50087-Huxley-Brothers-Wasson-Terrence-McKenna-Esalen-Psyhcidelics-2012-and-MK-Ultra



Bert woke up late and is now sounding the clarion call of awakening, yet he still believes we have a choice between freedom and slavery, while I see that we are already in the slave system so deep, so pervasive, so subtle, so soothing and enticing, that the window of opportunity, the door left ajar is about to be slammed shut.


his good buddy dr. Death (Alexander) as some of my DC on the hill friends like to call him.

Bob, would you say that those (your friends on the hill) who have been doing the bidding of the agenda in DC are waking up to the agenda as Bert has, and are starting to do something about it? I’m not familiar with who Dr Alexander is but I think I can extrapolate for now.

I'm gonna re-quote all

Please do look up John Alexander, the Aviary, Stubblebine (historical references on commanding the crew to do what they are). Leopards do not drop spots, and if one sleeps with cats one better like a lot of licking. Bob (Robert) Bigelow will come up in the searches - follow up on that too. U will see references on the Ranch (there are lots of posts of what's up with the ranch on this forum too, interesting eh?)

The guys on the hill.. eee How to say it and not get shot at the same time and loose the contacts on the hill that say behind the scenes what's really happening.

It kinda goes like this - they evaluate you to see what type of stand you take, then see what type of programming you have previously received - are you military? ex-military? are you a PhD (someone vested in the continuance of dogma promulgation (weeeee mouthful), then who can the correct "terminals" be who can be enlisted to get all excited about something, so that people pay attention to them and thereby buy the spin.

It is about control, and a controller does not change their stripes as is said once in the Company (C.I.A.) for instance one does not retire but gets involved as a consultant to some high paying government job (the pretty boy contracts). Every one of them have the pretty boy contracts with the pretty boy contractors. It is just the way the "club" works. It maintains order, a smooth flow of information, and no rabble rousers are allowed too much leighway to say too much that rocks the boat.

There are no white nights on the hill (spelling is deliberate).

Take a close look at T. Boone Pickins to see if there is anyone out there who is sincere about helping out the economy, industry and politics. http://www.pickensplan.com/theplan T-Boone's son sued daddy saying he was an abusive father - (there is that control thing again coming up)..

way too many things to get into in one post.. suffice to say, whats happening on the hill is not what we all see in the media.

this is the google keyword search string:

https://www.google.com/search?q=john+bigelow&oq=john+bigelow&aqs=chrome..69i57.8227j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=bigelow+aviary+stubblebine+alexander

maybe i should toss in this food for thought tidbit... u know Hollywood change the ll's to r's and the H to a w and the perspective will be clearer.. I have some really great friends who are "actors", Emmy award winners, some very really great writers/producers.. I also met some of the best "porn" producers who make the most money in hollywood selling their wares to those folks that need the fix. The industry creates awards to the best actor, the one who can evoke the most convincing, most sincere expression on the silver screen or Red Camera digi these days.. And you know what, and never ever forget it, actors by the nature when they are on the green or blue screen or on set in front of the camera in-character are liars, paid liars - to lie is to create a falsehood on camera to convince another that what they are seeing or hearing is real.. the worshiped thing is about being believable - paid lying in front of the camera make it real, so real... and society around the planet then worships these paid liars in front of the camera as key important people to be believed when they are not behind the all seeing eye. Just never forget - paid liars and awards are given to be the best in front of the camera "in-character" liar and convince the viewer the reality on the screen is real.

The point was to bring up the word which is charged "liar", to point out the way people worship things and don't connect the dots of what programming is andhow one can be so programmed and so emotional to actually BELIEVE the programming is real. One just doesn't get how powerful the narrative programming circuits are.

My good friends who are actors, when not in front of the camera are not liars, they are great.. they are beautiful and so sincere in many respects creating many helpful projects for mankind's good.

My point is in front of the camera in-character is about fabrication to make people believe what is shown on the camera is real and sincere. The mechanism of people using VIDEOS these days to "convince me" I find really questionable. They are playing into the psych programming of Hollywood. Control again folks, don't ever forget that.. please.

Don't forget what i brought up in my DARPA post, the creation of a believable story with a sincere actor is the way being used to program and play ya. (Darpa: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62807-DARPA-uses-Transcranial-Stimulation-for-Mind-Modification-Are-you-thinking-correctly)

i think bottom line, do some research, make up your own mind and see what you get in your heart if what you see matches what you feel, you will know if it is all right or just another spin cycle..

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Camelot Witness Dr Brian O'Leary told us that John Alexander was one of the few people he was afraid of.

On the other hand, Peterson said (and I believe absolutely correctly) that Bert Stubblebine was a lovely man.

I've listened to or watched quite a few interviews with 'General Bert' over the years, and I've never heard him state anything which I've known was not true.

[Dennis Leahy]

...My point is in front of the camera in-character is about fabrication to make people believe what is shown on the camera is real and sincere. The mechanism of people using VIDEOS these days to "convince me" I find really questionable. They are playing into the psych programming of Hollywood. Control again folks, don't ever forget that.. please.

Don't forget what i brought up in my DARPA post, the creation of a believable story with a sincere actor is the way being used to program and play ya. (Darpa: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62807-DARPA-uses-Transcranial-Stimulation-for-Mind-Modification-Are-you-thinking-correctly)

i think bottom line, do some research, make up your own mind and see what you get in your heart if what you see matches what you feel, you will know if it is all right or just another spin cycle..Call me dense, but I'm not sure I'm catching your drift... are you saying Stubblebine is just a good actor? And I suppose if you are, that his 'performances' are a limited hangout?

If he's insincere, I'll vote for an Oscar for his performances. I'm completely convinced that he's sincere and the read deal. If you don't think he is, then is it because he comes from "intelligence" - the land of psyops?

Dennis

[Bob]

-------

Camelot Witness Dr Pete Peterson (http://projectcamelot.org/pete_peterson.html) told us that John Alexander was one of the few people he was afraid of.

On the other hand, Peterson said (and I believe absolutely correctly) that Bert Stubblebine was a lovely man.

I've listened to or watched quite a few interviews with 'General Bert' over the years, and I've never heard him state anything which I've known was not true.

Bill I know you have said this and I could say this of my very good friend James Woolsey (CIA director). There is beauty in what people feel is right for the program that they feel is right is real to them, but it may not be real to others.

I will never ever agree to support one who feels to develop a better weapon to control or kill with a thought is a good thing. It is an abomination against life itself.. That is my passion - I will not create nor condone psyops mind altering techniques that harm, control subvert or wreck mankind.

I also talked to the people that Alexander told me to talk to when I asked him personally who is currently working on "the stuff".

He told me sincerely, something to the effect that his very good friend Bert Stubblebine should, beyond any doubt be honored for and considered to be the Father of modern psyops (mind controlling psychological operations). He told me you can find this out, that Bert was formerly head of INSCOM.

He told me that he retired but before retiring and then forming Psi-Tech www.remoteviewing.com with two other folks, (allegedly called in the NSA circles " the General", Mr. Lt.Col Michael A. Aquino (considered as a "high priest of the satanic Temple of Set") and himself - John was a very key man of Los Alamos National Labs. And Dr. Death was very respected all over the mil-psyop circles.

They love each other, and respect each other, and envy each other, and you can see the jostling back and forth as they try for the current Grant Money. When I talked with JSOC (joint special operations command) whom John also mentioned I should talk with, he gave me key mission leaders names, said, ask them what program is currently requesting funding. JSOC said they are in competition with Sandia Labs to develop with Raytheon the Active Denial Weapon. Active Denial can be modified very easily with Stubblebine's notes to be a full fledged at a distance psyops weapon.

All of this is researchable and on the internet even. How can anyone say a jet going into a building, i.e. WTC controlled detonation, pentagon, not a plane but a missile -


what advantage do "they" get by having Stubblebine declare that the Pentagon hit was probably a missile and definitely not a jumbo jet, and that the 3 WTC skyscrapers were controlled demolitions?

The "advantage" is people now open up to someone looking like a whistleblower, hidden knowledge, "i know a secret - wanna know a secret?" PSYOPS 101 introductory material.

I just can't believe psyops programs "the programming" that leopards change their backgrounds.

This is common sense stuff people. I don't need to be the one to point out common sense.

[Bob]

Call me dense, but I'm not sure I'm catching your drift... are you saying Stubblebine is just a good actor? And I suppose if you are, that his 'performances' are a limited hangout?

If he's insincere, I'll vote for an Oscar for his performances. I'm completely convinced that he's sincere and the read deal. If you don't think he is, then is it because he comes from "intelligence" - the land of psyops?

Dennis


Dennis - it's P S Y O P S this man IS the father of PSYOPS - EMMYS and OSCARS are awarded for the best liars on the screen. PROGRAMMING - TV, FILM - read again the DARPA program of the current gig is so strong, they can talk about it openly and people will go "huh?"

They can go to a major University of Arizona and get the KIDS to participate in the PSYOPS study programs. And the school lets it and condones it.

Dennis and Bill I talked with Bert's buddy Alexander for the inside scoop. Dr. Death himself was a very very sweet man so sincere and so kind. I felt so good afterwards till I pinched myself. Also a very sweet sounding man, sweet and light, ever hear that expression?

[Dennis Leahy]

OK, then hit me with a 2x4: what advantage do "they" get by having Stubblebine declare that the Pentagon hit was probably a missile and definitely not a jumbo jet, and that the 3 WTC skyscrapers were controlled demolitions? That's more than a "limited" hangout, that's pants down.

I am not saying you are wrong - I am saying you haven't convinced me. So, he was in intelligence, a psyops guy, let's say he really was the father of military psyops... I know a few veterans that are that vintage (octogenarian to nonagenarian), and that was the group that were (I believe) sincerely worried about the 'red scare' (communism) taking over the world. It makes sense to me that they would develop anything and everything to thwart communism - and feel damn good about it. He sure appears to be an old-school patriot to me, one who was not in the military segment of the black-ops loop for 9/11, and it really caught him off-guard that a segment of the US government and military were responsible for or part of the planning and execution of 9/11.

If you use the logic that all military and military contractor whistleblowers are only psyops, you also throw away Manning, Snowden, Tice, ... everyone who has ever been a 'spook' or in the military cannot be trusted, so discard all of their info. I can see using caution and discernment to evaluate these people, but I have, and I think they are all real whistleblowers, as is Stubblebine. I just can't go with the guilt by association indictment.

(I don't know your background, or why you feel as you do. Maybe you have good reason to feel as you do. I'm no insider, I'm just using my gut and also my head to ascertain just what this individual or the "agency" could gain by any specific info or testimony released.)

Dennis

[Bob]

OK, then hit me with a 2x4: what advantage do "they" get by having Stubblebine declare that the Pentagon hit was probably a missile and definitely not a jumbo jet, and that the 3 WTC skyscrapers were controlled demolitions? That's more than a "limited" hangout, that's pants down.

I am not saying you are wrong - I am saying you haven't convinced me. So, he was in intelligence, a psyops guy, let's say he really was the father of military psyops... I know a few veterans that are that vintage (octogenarian to nonagenarian), and that was the group that were (I believe) sincerely worried about the 'red scare' (communism) taking over the world. It makes sense to me that they would develop anything and everything to thwart communism - and feel damn good about it. He sure appears to be an old-school patriot to me, one who was not in the military segment of the black-ops loop for 9/11, and it really caught him off-guard that a segment of the US government and military were responsible for or part of the planning and execution of 9/11.

If you use the logic that all military and military contractor whistleblowers are only psyops, you also throw away Manning, Snowden, Tice, ... everyone who has ever been a 'spook' or in the military cannot be trusted, so discard all of their info. I can see using caution and discernment to evaluate these people, but I have, and I think they are all real whistleblowers, as is Stubblebine. I just can't go with the guilt by association indictment.

(I don't know your background, or why you feel as you do. Maybe you have good reason to feel as you do. I'm no insider, I'm just using my gut and also my head to ascertain just what this individual or the "agency" could gain by any specific info or testimony released.)

Dennis

Howdy Dennis - I respect you highly and have followed your posts. I am not here to debate. I have seen two people so far on this Forum point out the Stubblebine is a good guy, who we should trust.

Have you followed up on the google link? Have you talked to StubbleBine's key officer and partner John Alexander.. If not please do. This fellow was not just in "intel", he lead the groups who's sole goal was to win at any cost through deception, confusion, manipulation - he lead the groups who wanted to develop new KILL techniques, methods to kill remotely and insidiously, hidden from the "enemy". That is not just "intel". Intel was only one small gig, remote viewing.

After one identifies the target, phase two happens, find the target's weaknesses and play on them. Convince the opponents that you are their friend.. That they can trust you. Then go for the kill shot. That isn't intel and his background is to create the kill shot as insidiously as possible. And to deceive all along the way, no, it certainly can't be his organization, nope, not one bit..

https://www.google.com/search?q=john+bigelow&oq=john+bigelow&aqs=chrome..69i57.8227j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=bigelow+aviary+stubblebine+alexander

https://www.google.com/search?q=john+bigelow&oq=john+bigelow&aqs=chrome..69i57.8227j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=bigelow+aviary+stubblebine+alexander

Please I love your brilliance and the others who have said StubbleBine is somebody to be looked up to that he hasn't ever told a fib.. then let's have a discussion about anything coming out of Psyops program founder is worth following up on and believing anything that is presented. I just think they missed a few key points, and only looked at the roses painted on the tanks.

Bob


Bob said:
I will never ever agree to support one who feels to develop a better weapon to control or kill with a thought is a good thing. It is an abomination against life itself.. That is my passion - I will not create nor condone psyops mind altering techniques that harm, control subvert or wreck mankind.

I also talked to the people that Alexander told me to talk to when I asked him personally who is currently working on "the stuff".

He told me sincerely, something to the effect that his very good friend Bert Stubblebine should, beyond any doubt be honored for and considered to be the Father of modern Psyops (mind controlling psychological operations). He told me you can find this out, that Bert was formerly head of INSCOM.

He told me that he retired but before retiring and then forming Psi-Tech www.remoteviewing.com with two other folks, (allegedly called in the NSA circles " the General", Mr. Lt.Col Michael A. Aquino (considered as a "high priest of the satanic Temple of Set") and himself - John was a very key man of Los Alamos National Labs. And Dr. Death was very respected all over the mil-psyop circles.


-------

Camelot Witness Dr Pete Peterson (http://projectcamelot.org/pete_peterson.html) told us that John Alexander was one of the few people he was afraid of.

On the other hand, Peterson said (and I believe absolutely correctly) that Bert Stubblebine was a lovely man.

I've listened to or watched quite a few interviews with 'General Bert' over the years, and I've never heard him state anything which I've known was not true.

I'm reiterating what Bill Ryan said about Pete Peterson's fear mention of Alexander, Stubblebine's very smart and very powerful personal friend and co-partner. People of like mind and bent stick together especially in the spook fields where they are all watching each others back and covering for each other. How can anyone after hearing Pete state what he stated NOT connect the dots but be blind to the history ? I don't get it. Have they succeed so well? Kudos to Bert then, IT WORKS !

[Atlas]

"It (TRV) is a very systematic, very controlled method of accessing information that is not normally available by any other source... It is independent of time.. I can go present, I can go future. It is independent of location, so I can go anywhere on this earth, I can go into any closet, I can go into any mind..It is independent of space, therefore, I can access that information any place on the planet or off of it if I choose." - Major General Albert Stubblebine, former PSI TECH Chairman Of The Board and commanding officer of the U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM)

http://www.psitech.net/images/psi-tech(weblogo).png

General Stubblebine is associated with John Alexander and Michael Acquino in PSI TECH CORP (www.psitech.net (http://www.psitech.net)), which was founded by Major Ed Dames and holds the Smirnov patent for a psychotronic weapon.

Stubblebine once admitted in a court of law that his "real expertise is government, primarily intelligence", and, when asked whether he had any other skills, answered "Not particularly".

"[...] my operational commander was the Deputy Director of the CIA and I held all clearances of which I was aware although I now know that there were others that I did not hold. I continued to work as a Defense Contractor until 1992 or so and retired from that business. At that time, I allowed ALL my security clearances to lapse and have no more access to classified, sensitive or other restricted data than you do."

"I am NOT the illusory violent, abusive, alcoholic, "CIA Agent" father of a multiply hospitalized paranoid schizophrenic "activist" whose charges hit the Internet and then reverberate to his glee and our undeserved discredit, despite the bizarre letters we, and others have received to that effect. Nor have I ever stared a goat (or anything else) to death. I did, while on active duty, learn about the purported human capacity to do so and brought the idea that it might be possible to Fort Bragg, home of the Special Forces, with which I have no connection. I never heard what happened to the technology thereafter"

"I have never had any connection, part in, knowledge about, or dealings with the Mind Control program. I believed (until he met Dr. Rima in 1991) that the program had been stopped following the demand of Congress that MK Ultra and other Mind Control programs cease immediately. Anyone making these assertions has no idea how compartmentalization and clearances work: the need to know determines what you know. I was in Strategic Intelligence and had no need to know, so I was never "read into" any Mind Control Program."

(Source: educate-yourself.org/lte/actionabledisinformation23dec08.shtml (http://educate-yourself.org/lte/actionabledisinformation23dec08.shtml))

[ThePythonicCow]

Have you talked to StubbleBine's key officer and partner John Alexander.. If not please do.
I have neither talked to, nor listened to, John Alexander.

But, as usual, none of us is a completely reliable source (not even our conscious selves.)

(In other words, John Alexander would seem to have had means, motive and opportunity to diminish StubbleBine's stature in the alternative community ... this is a complex web we weave ... certainty is a very rare commodity.)

[Bob]

Did you miss this one Buares? As to answer Dennis - I met Stubblebine in Colorado at International Association for New Science, in Denver, Colorado in the 90's. SO I really do have first hand personal experience on this matter.

Posting Stubblebine's disclaimer is hilarious. I can ask my cat if he ate the bird and the feathers sticking out of his mouth mean nothing.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/hambone_info/people1.html

Gen. Albert Stubblebine

Albert Stubblebine

Former head of the U.S. Army Intelligence & Security Command (INSCOM) 1981-84 .

Masters degree in chemical engineering from Columbia.

Signed classified contracts with the Monroe Institute. (Emerson, Steven, Secret Warriors, G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1988, pg 103-4).

Stubblebine often met with Noriega while he was a US intelligence asset. (Emerson, 1988, pg 110-1) If you remember Noriega was involved in smuggling Cocaine, one of the CIA's black slush fund assets.

Former boss of Col. John Alexander, and the two have held numerous "spoon-bending" parties. (funny)

Friends with Lyn Buchanan [according to a representative from PSI TECH, the two are not friends]. There is a rather large stink betwen Buchanan, Dames, Moore on who is the best goat starer.

Married to ufologist Rima Laibow.
(Porter, Tom, Government Research into ESP & Mind Control, March, 1996)

Soon after becoming head of INSCOM, Stubblebbine began a program called the "High Performance Task Force", a series of methods to improve his officer's performance. These ranged from the neuro-linquistic programming of Tony Robbins to the hemisynch tapes of the Monroe Institute, where Stubblebine often sent his officers. (Schnabel, Jim, Remote Viewers: The Secret History of America's Psychic Spies, Dell, 1997, pg 276)

The "spoon-bending parties" were initiated by a west coast defense industry consultant, Jack Houck. (Schnabel, 1997, pg 278) Spoon bending was to show that one could create by mind alone influence. Such graduated, to can we kill something at a distance? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychokinesis scan down to kill with a thought.

Ronson, Jon (2006-04-04). The Men Who Stare at Goats. New York: Simon & Schuster. pp. 63, (Back cover). ISBN 978-0-7432-7060-1."In 1979, a secret unit was established by the most gifted minds within the US Army. Defying all known accepted military practice—and indeed, the laws of physics—they believed that a soldier could adopt a cloak of invisibility, pass cleanly through walls, and, perhaps most chillingly, kill goats just by staring at them."; "Lenny from Special Forces disappeared into the room where the goat was. He came back and answered, with surprise and solemnity, "The goat is down.'" - this is the extrapolation of Stubblebine's group at its desired outcome, to excel over the Russians in able to kill at a distance.

Following an incident involving an officer having a psychotic episode at the Monroe Institute, Stubblebine resigned in 1984. He was replaced by Major General Harry Soyster. (Schnabel, 1997, pg 316) Stubblebine continued to push people to their limits to the point of breakdown.

"Formerly Vice President for 'Intelligence Systems' of BDM of McClean, Virginia." As of 1992, Chairman of PSI-TECH.

"Laibow, Stubblebine and ufologist Victoria Lacas (with [C.B. Scott] Jones in the shadows) toured Europe and the Soviet Union, where they have established a prodigious UFO/Psi network."
(Durant, Robert J., "Will the Real Scott Jones Please Stand Up?")

Stubblebine gave a lecture at the International Symposium on UFO Research, sponsored by the International Association for New Science, in Denver, Colorado (May 22-25, 1992). This gives a good example of Stubblebine's coherence (or lack there of) and paranoia (he often threatened to destroy the tape). Stubblebine claimed that none of the members of the remote viewing program had prior psychic abilities or interests (all other sources state that they did). The lies are consistent with PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY. ALL PSYOPS. Do we need to post PSYOPS manuals next as proof of standard procedure?

Lets clear the word PSYOPS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_operations

"The planned use of propaganda and other psychological actions having the primary purpose of influencing the opinions, emotions, attitudes, and behavior..."

"This definition indicates that a critical element of the U.S. psychological operations capabilities includes propaganda and by extension counterpropaganda. Joint Publication 3-53 establishes specific policy.."





¤=[Post Update]=¤



Have you talked to StubbleBine's key officer and partner John Alexander.. If not please do.
I have neither talked to, nor listened to, John Alexander.

But, as usual, none of us is a completely reliable source (not even our conscious selves.)

(In other words, John Alexander would seem to have had means, motive and opportunity to diminish StubbleBine's stature in the alternative community ... this is a complex web we weave ... certainty is a very rare commodity.)

Sure Paul, my point is if the person heads up PSYOPS, that says ask what PSYOPS is, why is it done. Alexander was a partner with the fellow, he had no reason to diminish StubbleBine's stature. What one has is PSYOPS infiltrating the alternative community, judas goat really in my opinion.

Let's pull up Wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Stubblebine

The Dozier kidnapping
"On December 17, 1981, the senior U.S. Army officer in NATO Land Forces Southern European Command, Brigadier General James L. Dozier, was kidnapped from his apartment in Verona, Italy, by Italian Red Brigades terrorists.

The search for General Dozier saw a massive deployment of Italian and U.S. forces, including thousands of Italian national police, the Carabinieri. The search also featured some unconventional participants, including "remote viewers" from Project Stargate and an international cast of psychics, largely orchestrated by General Albert Stubblebine, then-Commander of U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command INSCOM, and a great believer in the use of unconventional intelligence-gathering methods.

An ISA SIGINT team was sent to Italy, and in conjunction with other Army SIGINT and counter-intelligence units, employed aerial and ground-based SIGINT systems to monitor and geo-locate terrorist communications. ISA and the other Army elements provided useful intelligence, helping Italian police to arrest several Red Brigades terrorists in mid-January 1982.

The Italian police and intelligence agencies have never officially disclosed how they located General Dozier in late January 1982. However, U.S. Army participants in the operation have hinted that the mid-January arrests, the interrogation of the interrogation of those arrested, and follow-on investigations led to the eventual location of the Red Brigades hideout where Dozier was being held, in an apartment over a store in Padova.

There is little doubt that the successful outcome resulted in part from the contributions of ISA's SIGINT specialists and the other supporting Army intelligence elements. "

Referring back to my post above we see Stubblebine's plausible deniability of this event and his groups' activity - doublespeak or something else?


Stubblebine gave a lecture at the International Symposium on UFO Research, sponsored by the International Association for New Science, in Denver, Colorado (May 22-25, 1992). This gives a good example of Stubblebine's coherence (or lack there of) and paranoia (he often threatened to destroy the tape). Stubblebine claimed that none of the members of the remote viewing program had prior psychic abilities or interests (all other sources state that they did). The lies are consistent with PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY. ALL PSYOPS. Do we need to post PSYOPS manuals next as proof of standard procedure?[COLOR="red"]

There's the "Fib" guys. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_Support_Activity

[araucaria]

@Bobd
We have a concept for oscar-quality real-life comedians: psychopathy. So we understand what you are talking about. However, I am rather surprised (puzzled) to see to backing up your statements with quotes from Wikipedia.Is not the quasi anonymously multi-authored Wikipedia itself a prime target of oscar-quality real-life comedians?

Edit: sorry, comedians is a gallicism, but an interesting one: it basically means actors rather than comics, but then, what's the difference?

[norman]

There seems to be some kind of inversion field around the ones with hefty dark clout. In my travels I've experienced it.

At the time, I'm overwhelmed with something I can't resist that makes me nod and agree with everything they say. At one level it strokes all the right bits of my consciousness but there's something stark raving mad about it too.

Getting away from a person like that is like flopping down in a chair and realising I've just drunk 20 cups of strong coffee one after the other and I'm completely off my rocker.

[Gardener]

This conversation is so very interesting and it shows that we are influenced by smooth talk and rhetoric, even when there are very definite opposing ideas. Norman says it well when he says.....

At the time, I'm overwhelmed with something I can't resist that makes me nod and agree with everything they say. At one level it strokes all the right bits of my consciousness but there's something stark raving mad about it too.

Is it that we are still enamoured of our beliefs? Wanting to believe because it fits what's already in there and having a hard time dealing with the cognitive dissonance that an opposing belief/information presents.

It seems to be that intel has, for want of a better description 'containers' & 'scoops' which corall people into safety zones to contain the information in one of many places in order to 'deal' with it to limit any damage. There are many of these 'zones' I think. With specific detail to keep people going round the proverbial circle and not really getting anywhere.

I listened to the Stubblebein interview even though I didn't know anything about him, and my reaction was leave it on the shelf, things have a 'taste' or flavour, a strange sense of something which has a vibe that doesn't make any real sense, (the 'vibe' not what is said) (like Norman articulated) like a frequency wall.
I trust that sense, its all we got really.

[Dennis Leahy]

OK, some are very familiar with Stubblebine (probably latter-day 9/11 researchers); some are not. I think it may be good to come back to a reference point that fosters my confidence and that Bobd would see as my point of falling into cognitive dissonance.

I think Bobd has a case...on paper. It is not unfounded suspicion of Stubblebine - the guy was certainly involved in psyops. Does involvement (even heading programs) with psyops put Stubblebine directly in the "dark forces" camp? If so, is that permanent? Does his involvement with (or heading) psyops programs mean that he did have foreknowledge of 9/11 planning, and thus his subsequent "coming forward"/whistleblowing is itself a lie and some form of psyops? (And the video I'm attaching would thus be simply a convincing acting job.)

I have had people tell me their logic as to why specific whistleblowers were fake, were psyops, and produced a desired public effect ("limited hangout.") For example: Assange produced nothing about 9/11 and nothing damning about Zionists or Israeli government. Assange also infamously stated: ""I'm constantly annoyed that people are distracted by false conspiracies such as 9/11, when all around we provide evidence of real conspiracies, for war or mass financial fraud." (That remains, to me, the most suspicious thing said by any whistleblower - ever - and certainly undermines Assange's credibility.) These same people then go on to elaborate that the faux-whistleblower is a planned psyop, a limited hangout that misdirects further research, excludes or minimizes the real culprits, and leaves a false sense of the completeness of the overall picture.

So, again, I have to ask: how is Stubblebine's "going public" [that the Pentagon was not hit with a jumbo jet and was probably hit by a missile, that NORAD was complicit, and his overall conclusion that the WTC skyscrapers were all brought down by controlled demolition] of benefit to the dark forces, the real perpetrators? You have to at least offer some idea of how this was more beneficial to the dark forces than Stubblebine not coming forward at all. I cannot think of any way this could be considered as "limited hangout."

There are 2 interviews of Stubblebine: one "in the street" and one at his house (I assume.) He says the same things, with a bit more detail (and less background noise) in the home interview, so I'll post that one. Here's the interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc1ql4TfCZw

I would have to be made to believe that this video bolsters the dark forces agenda, to believe that Stubblebine's story is a psyop. This is different than digging up "dirt" on Stubblebine (he may be "dirty" - that is a different story.) (In this context) I don't really care what Stubblebine's history is; explain how this video interview fosters the agenda of the dark forces.

Dennis

[Bob]

I would have to be made to believe that this video bolsters the dark forces agenda, to believe that Stubblebine's story is a psyop. This is different than digging up "dirt" on Stubblebine (he may be "dirty" - that is a different story.) (In this context) I don't really care what Stubblebine's history is; explain how this video interview fosters the agenda of the dark forces.

Dennis

Welcome to the world of PsyOps Dennis.

Bob

[Gardener]

Dennis he is just repeating what was already covered in alt media and if you go to 12min in the video he will use an entrainment technique, watch that bit see how it feels.

I have no idea why he is endorsing this or even how it might benefit the monolith truly I havent, and I can see where you are coming from. Something is amis. Ok off the wall ideas........ his involement with MK might be more than supervisory maybe he was beneficiary in which case anything goes. Something kicks in at the 12 min mark or shortly after. His meeting with Rima, possibly a 'love bite' scenario. Ok I'll get my coat lol.

[Bob]

This conversation is so very interesting and it shows that we are influenced by smooth talk and rhetoric, even when there are very definite opposing ideas. Norman says it well when he says.....

At the time, I'm overwhelmed with something I can't resist that makes me nod and agree with everything they say. At one level it strokes all the right bits of my consciousness but there's something stark raving mad about it too.

Is it that we are still enamoured of our beliefs? Wanting to believe because it fits what's already in there and having a hard time dealing with the cognitive dissonance that an opposing belief/information presents.

It seems to be that intel has, for want of a better description 'containers' & 'scoops' which corall people into safety zones to contain the information in one of many places in order to 'deal' with it to limit any damage. There are many of these 'zones' I think. With specific detail to keep people going round the proverbial circle and not really getting anywhere.

I listened to the Stubblebein interview even though I didn't know anything about him, and my reaction was leave it on the shelf, things have a 'taste' or flavour, a strange sense of something which has a vibe that doesn't make any real sense, (the 'vibe' not what is said) (like Norman articulated) like a frequency wall.
I trust that sense, its all we got really.

Howdy Gardner - I have met the man. I have met Bo Gritz - he has some most amazing stories about who's who and what's what in the psyops inscom socom "industries". I do spend the time to meet in person who's who.

One knows by the feeling you get, and you know when you see and feel the pattern that the folks read the same training manual, and are doing the deed because that is what the manual says works - how to influence people and win over your enemies. What they have NOT been able to succeed at is hiding the real consciousness behind the programming which reveals who they are, what their purpose is - unless one reaches into that level of determining who they "really are", all one sees is the synthetic "actor" personality. I suppose I can start a thread called, Unfolding the Psyops Psychology, here is how you are duped and become a groupie.

Leave it on the shelf.. I like that understanding reaction.. That strange "sense" I believe is the true direct consciousness to consciousness communications in which one cannot hide and cannot lie. Let's see if I can recall this - from Enigma - "If you understand or if you don't If you believe or if you doubt There's a universal justice And the eyes of truth Are always watching you.." (Eyes of Truth) from Cross of Changes..

I would think folks may enjoy listening to the Album, with some deep travels into reaching in to the "allness" sorta like a let's get our heads reset back in perspective, and get out of the spin cycle. One doesn't jump into the washing machine wearing clothes... and ya, the Kings are wearing no clothes...

http://www.amazon.com/The-Eyes-Of-Truth/dp/B000TD9BIK well worth it or a snippet here:

I have a snippet here: http://dhri.com/articles/enigma-1.mp3 and it's playable built-in from the Forum Player here: http://dhri.com/articles/enigma-1.mp3

Lastly for Dennis, you asked who the heck am I to challenge the Kings -
I have over 40 years of experience direct first hand experience - one on one inside stuff. I have a 15 page resume of accomplishments in many fields and technologies. I can say I have been there and done that. What I say comes from finding out personally. I don't need to report hearsay armchair stuff and expect people to believe it, nor do I create fancy video's so that people have an armchair no effort pour the experience in watching eye-candy. I just don't do it. I have stated this before in many posts (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/search.php?do=finduser&userid=17746&contenttype=vBForum_Post&showposts=1)

I am reminded from a snippet - "How many lights to you see?" --- "I see 3 lights.." "no there are 4.. When you see that there are 4 lights you will be released.." And in the end when Riker gets to Picard and the captain tells him what happened, he says, "you know Will, in the end I think I really started to see 4 lights.."

[gripreaper]

Oh, he’s just a “good old boy” who joined the armed forces because he believed in America and freedom and liberty, and to protect it from all enemies, of which there were and are many. He served his country honorably by gathering intelligence (the lay of the land), which he handed off to the commanding officers in the field, remaining detached from its eventual use, since the armed forces is very compartmentalized and strictly operates on a “need to know” basis. Hey, I’m just an intelligence officer and don’t need to know, as I am not a tactical officer.

That’s what the interview implies. To the 15% who may take his declaration; that there are some inconsistencies in the official 9-11 story, we already know that without Stubblebine’s declaration. It just puts him out here with the rest of us conspiracy theorists who are still rattling on about 9-11 twelve years later…blah…blah…blahhh… Can’t we let the poor victims rest in peace?

As far as what does he know, and when did he know it, and who knew who used it, I’d say he’s dirty. How can you be at the top and not know? I find the plausible deniability disingenuous. Can a leopard change its stripes? Not likely. Very, very unlikely, especially in the top ranks of the military.

So, from my point of view, this interview has very little import and only serves to confirm that Stubblebine stares at goats and is an old fart who is listening to too much alternative media. But really, it’s the stuff “behind” the interview that we are not supposed to look at that is of greater import, such as:

1. There exists technology that can and does have the ability to change brain wave patterns and remote control the thoughts and actions of ANY individual.

2. Those in the upper echelons of government are compromised, have a file full of dirt on them that the power brokers can use at any time to discredit any rogue agents, and these agents rarely, if ever, break rank as it is so detrimental to their survival.

3. The US is just a territory of the global elite and the military is just the paid mercenaries for these elite. The nationalistic notions are “psyops” to use the word here, and all of the notions we were taught in school and in society, which we operate under, are fallacious.

4. Huxley, Wasson, Bernay’s, and the early fathers of mind control, took over media and education and have set the agenda and have dumbed down the populace almost to the point of robatrons.

5. There is about 15% of the population that have a strain of DNA which cannot be controlled. We are like gnats on the back of an elephant and are not that big of a threat to the agenda.

6. There exists stellar technology, Tesla wireless electricity from the earth technology, and all manner of composites and exotic metals which are NOT in the public domain, but are held by the military and the government. The electric and oil grids are obsolete.

7. Any talk of oil scarcity, the need to develop natural gas resources, or solar and wind resources, is just a diversion “psyop” tactic to keep the focus away from the hidden technology and keep us stuck in an old control paradigm of scarcity and oligarchy.

I could go on, and this list could extend further, until the entire existing paradigm is exposed as part of the psyop, and that ALL OF US are stuck in this mind control psyop to one degree or another. If even half or what we have heard is true, the implications are staggering.

[Bill Ryan]

-------

I very much enjoyed listening to the interview.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions (and these are only opinions!). For me, General Bert described very openly, honestly and magnanimously that he had his epiphany when he looked at the hole in the wall of the Pentagon, only really a few short years ago, and realized that he was being lied to. Even the most skeptical among us might admit that that is plausibly true.

All the time he was in military service, and beyond his retirement -- as he explained -- he had never questioned a thing. Now, he sees the world differently. Ever since 2008, I've been receiving e-mails from him and his team pointing out the deceptions. The first I got, I think, was about flu vaccinations.

I've never met or spoken with him, but I believe he is an honorable man who is admitting, better late than never, that he's been a dupe most of his life. (And 'dupe' is the word he used in the interview. How many of us ever have the courage to say that about ourselves?)

There are people out there on the net who are CERTAIN I work for the CIA, and are CERTAIN David Icke is a Mason because of his strange handshake. ("Look! There's proof!"). Avalon member we-R-one was CERTAIN that Todd Hathaway is an Agenda 21 stooge, and spent dozens of hours in research and meticulous presentation trying to show something that you and I know is not true.

We all need to be aware of our subjective certainties. Ultimately, we cannot be 100.000% certain of anything, but I feel 99% certain that General Burt is exactly who he says he is. And I'm 99.999% certain that no-one on this thread is a bud guy who intends any ill to anyone. If we're being meticulously intellectually honest, I suggest that we have to leave it at that.

:)

[Bob]

Hi Norman - I created a post later on getting into some more of the psyops techniques - it is the method to infiltrate groups and of course Forums. Any actor has to be sincere enough if they are not doing stand-up comedy to create believably and touch on what may be up to 85% truth, then inject 15 % falsehood. That is the measured amount of spin that these folks have determined is the believably threshold to suck some one in and then add the falsehood - with sufficient leading and doing this over a short period of time a person becomes a converted groupie. Add in fancy eye candy, or more buzz words, or more "cause" type bandwagons to jump on, and the conversion steps are complete.

It goes past the "cognitive dissonance" that the pHd's feel they can get grant funding for. (see I threw in one of the buzz-words, which unless you know what it means, you instantly start to experience a slight bit of stupor, and become slightly under the influence of the dialog. You might even slightly withdraw, but if I say, "God showed me a vision and I know now, we are all one, and this veil that is all around is is now lifting".. At that point the stupor can be changed back into something that the person will then start to follow. They will go for the 85% truth then to keep the person believing, then toss in the 15% lie, and toss in a stupor moment to cause people to momentarily blank out. Then as you noticed the "inversion" appears.

What is further more insidious, there is a stupor plus an accelerant happening in some of the mind control energy beaming coming from various electromagnetic sources. There are foods also which when eaten create also a two pole reaction - stupor plus hyper. That effect induces a higher level of suggestibility. It also turns on the brain's highest most powerful natural opiates, and also induces the "satisfaction and reward" brain receptors.

The skilled psyops master as Stubblebine I belive fully IS and his cronies are fully cognizant of, know all the brain hormone tricks, know the 85/15 rule and use it. AND what's kinda sad and funny at the same time, a lot of the charismatic Kings of the diatribe use it too. Either unconsciously or not, they emulate what they see is a winning method to get the attention - but look closely not one of them has ever produced any thing which has benefited society, or even the group - what they have done is kept themselves IN the limelight, using 85/15 to keep getting workshops, sell books, sell radio shows, interviews, get airtime coverage.. but does the end product ever appear? No.. That is how psyops is used by the not so innocent out there to win over the masses which fall into the pretty message.

thanks again Norman

Bob

¤=[Post Update]=¤


-------

I very much enjoyed listening to the interview.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions (and these are only opinions!). For me, General Bert described very openly, honestly and magnanimously that he had his epiphany when he looked at the hole in the wall of the Pentagon, only really a few short years ago, and realized that he was being lied to. Even the most skeptical among us might admit that that is plausibly true.

All the time he was in military service, and beyond his retirement -- as he explained -- he had never questioned a thing. Now, he sees the world differently. Ever since 2008, I've been receiving e-mails from him and his team pointing out the deceptions. The first I got, I think, was about flu vaccinations.

I've never met or spoken with him, but I believe he is an honorable man who is admitting, better late than never, that he's been a dupe most of his life. (And 'dupe' is the word he used in the interview. How many of us ever have the courage to say that about ourselves?)

There are people out there on the net who are CERTAIN I work for the CIA, and are CERTAIN David Icke is a Mason because of his strange handshake. ("Look! There's proof!"). Avalon member we-R-one was CERTAIN that Todd Hathaway is an Agenda 21 stooge, and spent dozens of hours in research and meticulous presentation trying to show something that you and I know is not true.

We all need to be aware of our subjective certainties. Ultimately, we cannot be 100.000% certain of anything, but I feel 99% certain that General Burt is exactly who he says he is. And I'm 99.999% certain that no-one on this thread is a bud guy who intends any ill to anyone. If we're being meticulously intellectually honest, I suggest that we have to leave it at that.

:)

As I pointed out Bill, the 85/15 % rule is the manipulative technique - if you take a look all over the Avalon forum and evaluate data on that, you will SEE who's doing what - peace - I have met the people.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Very good Gripreaper - you caught the 15% aspect of the 85/15 rule. The stuff is interpretable if one looks for the 85% truth and the 15% lie manipulation. The threshold IS 15% buy the lie. They then become the Judas Goats to lead the others, by Example and Persuasion.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Oh, he’s just a “good old boy” who joined the armed forces because he believed in America and freedom and liberty, and to protect it from all enemies, of which there were and are many. He served his country honorably by gathering intelligence (the lay of the land), which he handed off to the commanding officers in the field, remaining detached from its eventual use, since the armed forces is very compartmentalized and strictly operates on a “need to know” basis. Hey, I’m just an intelligence officer and don’t need to know, as I am not a tactical officer.

1. There exists technology that can and does have the ability to change brain wave patterns and remote control the thoughts and actions of ANY individual.

2. Those in the upper echelons of government are compromised, have a file full of dirt on them that the power brokers can use at any time to discredit any rogue agents, and these agents rarely, if ever, break rank as it is so detrimental to their survival.

3. The US is just a territory of the global elite and the military is just the paid mercenaries for these elite. The nationalistic notions are “psyops” to use the word here, and all of the notions we were taught in school and in society, which we operate under, are fallacious.

4. Huxley, Wasson, Bernay’s, and the early fathers of mind control, took over media and education and have set the agenda and have dumbed down the populace almost to the point of robatrons.

5. There is about 15% of the population that have a strain of DNA which cannot be controlled. We are like gnats on the back of an elephant and are not that big of a threat to the agenda.

6. There exists stellar technology, Tesla wireless electricity from the earth technology, and all manner of composites and exotic metals which are NOT in the public domain, but are held by the military and the government. The electric and oil grids are obsolete.

7. Any talk of oil scarcity, the need to develop natural gas resources, or solar and wind resources, is just a diversion “psyop” tactic to keep the focus away from the hidden technology and keep us stuck in an old control paradigm of scarcity and oligarchy.

I could go on, and this list could extend further, until the entire existing paradigm is exposed as part of the psyop, and that ALL OF US are stuck in this mind control psyop to one degree or another. If even half or what we have heard is true, the implications are staggering.

Standing OVATION BRAVO !@! Very well done. Thank you ! Ya Bill everyone is entitled to their own opinions but when our "own" opinions have been handed to us by cultural programming by the masses saying hey, you speak up you are no longer gonna be part of the group.. people start to accept the fish slap aside of the head and maybe see 4 lights after a while..

[Knowrainknowrainbows!]

I am intrigued with this thread ... on different levels and for different reasons.

I can well imagine this military-raised, West Point graduate, military career-focused intelligence officer (General) having been entrenched in his "mission" of service to his country.
He is slower, deliberate in making his point at the 12 min mark ... training/learning/habits vs intentional ??? I dunno. He probably could stare a goat down ...
"General Bert" does display passion and seems earnest to me (imho) ... also could just be good acting. Funny, I have always thought it peculiar - the term, "Theatre of War" or "War Theatre".
Yes, we live in various "cultures" too. Oops, I digress. :focus:

Anyway, great thread ... I am learning and appreciate the dialogue from different perspectives!

KRKR

[araucaria]

On the one hand you have the message that you want to get out: basically "911 was an inside job".

On the other hand you have various types of messenger, for those who need help beyond the evidence of their own eyes and mental powers. Maybe some alternative media personality, and you worry over his info/disinfo ratio. Or it might be an anonymous messenger daubing an expressway overpass: first it hits you in the face, but then you might remember who they told you the graffiti artist was. The overall effect may or may not be to increase awareness.

And then you have someone closer to the power structures saying the same thing. Normally speaking this should carry more weight than either of the others. A retired major-general is probably as high as you are going to get to dfind someone speaking out like that. Would a congressman be more convincing? Probably about the same. And certainly anyone any higher in the executive would probably be too personally implicated.

Remember, preaching to the choir is irrelevant at this stage. This man speaks in the loyal, patriotic, terms of the longtime gullible that the loyal, patriotic, longtime gullible listener might resonate with.

In other words, if this man is play-acting - and I do find his delivery very persuasive - then fair enough, it has to be counterproductive from the controllers' standpoint. The actor playing Garrison in JFK was only acting too, and pretty convincingly. That doesn't invalidate what he says.

[Carmody]

They love each other, and respect each other, and envy each other, and you can see the jostling back and forth as they try for the current Grant Money. When I talked with JSOC (joint special operations command) whom John also mentioned I should talk with, he gave me key mission leaders names, said, ask them what program is currently requesting funding. JSOC said they are in competition with Sandia Labs to develop with Raytheon the Active Denial Weapon. Active Denial can be modified very easily with Stubblebine's notes to be a full fledged at a distance psyops weapon.



harmonic interference, via stereoscopic methodologies. Ie, two carriers, one harmonic mix. shape form the carriers, and shape the harmonic aimed or targeted for. Hetrodyning is another potential carrier/transmission system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterodyne

If you have the correct frequencies, data, etc, this can be built and tested rather quickly, and very probably has been.

The blueprint has been around in effective form, for quite some time.

Target brainwaves, voices, behavioral and concentration aspects of human thinking, you name it. also chemical endocrine, all kinds of effects can be generated. We are, body wise, electrochemical creatures, so we can be modified, altered, outside of our notice by such toys and methods.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_from_ultrasound

Effective fidelity and sound means that depth of penetration, cranial areas, and exact electromagnetic waveforms, down to near or at DC, can be effectively created with such systems. feed it the right waveform and presto, instant change in people, outside of their direct knowing, as it is one step too many removed from their knowledge base.

So, to illustrate that the key technologies do indeed exist in the real world,so people can come to understand electronic manipulation in this area does indeed exist in theory and fact.


Be aware that the hardware of all that is required, and the methods, do indeed exist.

It's like separately inventing a perfectly matched bullet for a perfectly matched gun.

There is no doubt that someone out there..has put the two together.

For more connective tissue, consider the ciba-geigy effect,

http://www.energeticforum.com/agriculture/5892-ciba-geigy-effect.html

The angel light and god light, via Try Hurtubise,

EPmV9Iwr0kg

...which is a methodology of complex light harmonics (FTL, dimensional waveforms, hetrodyning, etc),

Trans cranial neural growth learning techniques, etc.

http://www.jove.com/video/2744/electrode-positioning-montage-transcranial-direct-current

[Bob]

@Bobd
We have a concept for oscar-quality real-life comedians: psychopathy. So we understand what you are talking about. However, I am rather surprised (puzzled) to see to backing up your statements with quotes from Wikipedia.Is not the quasi anonymously multi-authored Wikipedia itself a prime target of oscar-quality real-life comedians?

Edit: sorry, comedians is a gallicism, but an interesting one: it basically means actors rather than comics, but then, what's the difference?

araucaria howdy - pick some of the other links instead of Wiki - if you check wiki, you can check the references and see for yourself the sources of the data. Wiki is a convenience not God and certainly not a Bible.. Ever since 9-11 the MILITARY has shut down access to a LOT of their websites which had A LOT of the manuals posted for their people and public to refer to. When the MILITARY realized that ENEMY COMBATANTS had access too to all the data and strategies posted, they made a systematic search to withdraw all that information. Every now and then one may find some doctrine still left on the West Point Military websites where some officers have posted their Thesis, and refer to the actual documents which later were removed from public view. It is an interesting search if one is interested.

I got dragged into this post talking about PSYOPS and it is a waste of time for me to have to reiterate what one with common sense can see if you for instance take a strong look at the post that GripReaper posted on what is happening. It was stated very clearly and I say one more time KUDOS and STANDING OVATION.

Anyone on a FORUM or who works with groups, knowing group psychology is tantamount to manipulate and win, or one seems like a pompus ass with a chip on their shoulder. And the manipulators who see someone stumbling may want to go for the jugular. I had and still have Hope that the Avalon group is way above the falling for stuff, and can see through it and get past the party gush and into solving what the statement is Where Science and Spirituality meet. If it is not that and a social club instead . Well whatever. We will see. I have seen way way way too many sincere kind joyous and helpful people here to just abandon those seeking light. -- peace--

[Bob]

They love each other, and respect each other, and envy each other, and you can see the jostling back and forth as they try for the current Grant Money. When I talked with JSOC (joint special operations command) whom John also mentioned I should talk with, he gave me key mission leaders names, said, ask them what program is currently requesting funding. JSOC said they are in competition with Sandia Labs to develop with Raytheon the Active Denial Weapon. Active Denial can be modified very easily with Stubblebine's notes to be a full fledged at a distance psyops weapon.




So, to illustrate that the key technologies do indeed exist in the real world, so people can come to understand electronic manipulation in this area does indeed exist in theory and fact.

Be aware that the hardware of all that is required, and the methods, do indeed exist[/I].

It's like separately inventing a perfectly matched bullet for a perfectly matched gun.

There is no doubt that someone out there..has put the two together.

Bravo Carmody !
No question Carmody - the hardware is there - and used.. Also and I mentioned this a thread SHOULD be started on COMMON FOODS when ingested will cause the brain chemistry and body chemistry to flip out allowing for more suggestibility.

Lastly the three fold, three pronged assault - is media (example and persuasion using the 85/15% rule to deceive in a plausible manner). Social engineering through social forums, and twitters and facebooks. People love to gossip and have behind the scenes PM's - clique manipulation, water cooler gossip..

Summary - EM (elctromagnetic), MEDIA (all including forum and video, not so much internet radio any more), and the Nutrition or Foods people eat (and drink)

[Bob]

In other words, if this man is play-acting - and I do find his delivery very persuasive - then fair enough, it has to be counterproductive from the controllers' standpoint. The actor playing Garrison in JFK was only acting too, and pretty convincingly. That doesn't invalidate what he says.

Never ever forget the 85/15 % rule in manipulation (psyops of any kind) to make it seem credible and then there becomes an open 15% window where pretty much anything can be added and the momentum of the 85% truth plus credibility credential lets the receiver get sucked in (spun). If you want some fun, take a look all over the 57,000 messages on this forum and search through it to see it in operation if you can find an 85/15 spin happening - chances are you found somebody repeating a "program" that they believed so heartily, it became very real to them and they just HAD to share it. THEN lastly look to see if ANYTHING ever was accomplished or what you saw - was it just talk, plus AGENDA (soapbox)... was it someone in trouble asking for help and didn't know how to express themselves..

I am just saying that is practical psyops 101 is instilled in our day to day lives we don't know when we are using it to somehow win.. TO show off, to make people want to love us, or look up to us or do something for us - test the 85% 15% psyops rule for manipulation. Look at all over the media you get from TV, FORUM, SPEECHEs by the politicos.. hey look at NIXON good buddy Nixon.. ---peace--

I want to add one more thing - those who HAVE been sucked in and believed the spin the 15% funk, I have immense compassion for. IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT what you have been convinced. These manipulators know how to hurt and play the buttons. My understanding is there is a LOT in this forum about getting up past the kick in the teeth, or the oh gees, I made a mistake. We are here to help us to help each other.. thats not all, but there are not enough words to express how much everyone does care.

[Carmody]

They love each other, and respect each other, and envy each other, and you can see the jostling back and forth as they try for the current Grant Money. When I talked with JSOC (joint special operations command) whom John also mentioned I should talk with, he gave me key mission leaders names, said, ask them what program is currently requesting funding. JSOC said they are in competition with Sandia Labs to develop with Raytheon the Active Denial Weapon. Active Denial can be modified very easily with Stubblebine's notes to be a full fledged at a distance psyops weapon.




So, to illustrate that the key technologies do indeed exist in the real world, so people can come to understand electronic manipulation in this area does indeed exist in theory and fact.

Be aware that the hardware of all that is required, and the methods, do indeed exist[/I].

It's like separately inventing a perfectly matched bullet for a perfectly matched gun.

There is no doubt that someone out there..has put the two together.

Bravo Carmody !
No question Carmody - the hardware is there - and used.. Also and I mentioned this a thread SHOULD be started on COMMON FOODS when ingested will cause the brain chemistry and body chemistry to flip out allowing for more suggestibility.

Lastly the three fold, three pronged assault - is media (example and persuasion using the 85/15% rule to deceive in a plausible manner). Social engineering through social forums, and twitters and facebooks. People love to gossip and have behind the scenes PM's - clique manipulation, water cooler gossip..

Summary - EM (elctromagnetic), MEDIA (all including forum and video, not so much internet radio any more), and the Nutrition or Foods people eat (and drink)



I failed to mention that the EM waves and microwaves, etc, can penetrate the body and be re-assembled into a lower frequency waveform, via these carrier and transmission techniques. The lower frequencies, then are internal to the body or cranium in some cases of use, these lower frequencies and waveforms will be effective in internal change of the mind, mindset, chemical exchange systems, etc. thus, at first, the basics like mood, mindset, health and immediate body function (the heart stopping ray gun admitted to -in a public hearing) and so on, down to direct worded 'voice in head' communication, etc..

These are 'brute force and ignorance' methods of touching on (attempts at influence) how we as spiritual beings, are connected to the human body, how that interface works.

We are looking at the public beginnings of interference at and in those levels of fundamental human function.

[norman]

..........There are people out there on the net who are CERTAIN I work for the CIA.............


:)


I'm certain you don't work for the British circus. :)

I was more thinking about Alexander as the hefty dark one. But the thing that keeps on niggling me is all about that much corrupted word:

Intelligence.

I often think about how that word is used so much as a cover-all word by the dark and the light side to mean something that is really nothing more than crookery.

Perhaps someone here can educate me to understand exactly how it was that the secret and wicked 'guard' around figures of power ended up being called the 'intelligence' agencies or services. Sure, there are a lot of very clever people hand picked for that kind of thing so it's likely that there is an above average IQ in that group but I take offense at the notion that intelligence and crime are so bound together in the common psyche.

Why am I offended? because the whole dark crooked system is running a corrupt monopoly on smarts. The psyop is all about maintaining that monopoly on smarts. They don't just operate in isolation from the rest of us. They control and micro manage the whole grid of joined up thinking like a motorway network that extends out to everywhere, but the central hub is a ring road right about themselves.

The biggest thing working in their favor right now IS the blatant obvious fact that all intelligent eyes are focused right on them. The unbelievable cold face lying constantly affirms that dynamic. It's as if they are on a recruitment/educational drive to create a much more massive pool of corrupt intelligence around them that they somehow, eventually, intend to trick or force us into becoming.

I know it might seem contrary to what we, most of us, think we are all about, but how else can this dynamic be made sense of?

They've got millions of people chasing after the "truth". Not one of us really knows what the "truth" is. We haven't got there or found it yet, so we are still only a structured crowd that's stretching out with the 'smartest' leading the stretch. As long the crooked intel folks possess more of the 'truth' than we do, they still have the bull ( us ! ) by the ring in his nose.

What might they be wanting to do with this stretching forward crowd of truthers?

They probably want to exploit it.

How would they do that?

By maintaining their monopoly on the one thing this truther crowd is all fired up and hungry for.

Always a little bit more truth, a tiny piece at a time, but always at a lesser rate than the rate they are CREATING IT.

[Christine]

I am going to have to take a big breath to wade into this puddle... it may be deeper than I suspect.

First, does it matter whether Gen. Bert is a dupe or a toad? I mean, lets just thank him for whatever true message he wants to put out and move on.. there is a much more important movement these days and it is all about OUR consciousness. What do you know INSIDE you to be true. If it is it is... I can't tell anyone whethter the general is a good actor, a stooge or just an old man who wants to remember his glory. Perhaps he had his ephiphany and I would sing hallelujha with him. Little effect does this have on me.

Clearly he isn't an innocent and he clearly states there are things he can't talk about... and what he talks about is old news to those of us who have struggled into awareness when the first rays struck our minds.

What does have effect on me and mine? Isn't it a fact that PSY OP continues, the technology advances, the war mongers still sell their wares, the new agers were co opted and more than once... etc., etc., etc.

That we still feed the machine at almost every breath we take, I still drive a car with petrol and buy my steaks at the super market...

In listening to this video I took what was valuable.. and hey, maybe a General would wake up some other old man who wouldn't listen to this hippie chick. So he serves where he serves. And maybe it is just plainly evident that we have to sift through the chaff.. I do not hold THE Truth, Bobd doesn't either, nor Bill Ryan, nor Dennis, nor anyothers who posted... why argue over this man's current motivation?

If we understand how our minds were co-opted, if we understand what the human heart holds, if we can cherish all fellow beings in the Light of Truth.. .. if we can remember our own greatness, then we are doing what we came here to do.



"The hardest task one can have is to continue to love his fellows despite all reasons he should not.
And the true sign of sanity and greatness is to so continue.
For the one who can achieve this, there is abundant hope.
For those who cannot, there is only sorrow, hatred and despair. And these are not the things of which greatness—or sanity or happiness are made."



To that degree, true greatness depends on total wisdom. They act as they do because they are what they are—trapped beings, crushed beneath an intolerable burden. And if they have gone mad for it and command the devastation of whole nations in errors of explanation, still, one can understand why and can understand as well the extent of their madness. Why should one change and begin to hate just because others have lost themselves and their own destinies are too cruel for them to face?

[onawah]

I like to think Gen. Bert was motivated and inspired by his wife, Dr. Rima Laibow, Christine.
Dr. Laibow just gave a new interview too, on Gnostic Media, about vaccines and autism, psychiatric drugs, and more.
The webinar was on 9/11/2013, but the interview video follows.
Not precisely on topic, but they are such a dynamic duo, I'd kind of like them to be featured on the same thread, in case some Avalonians didn't know they're a couple.
http://www.gnosticmedia.com/rimalaibow_huxleynewworld175

An Interview with Dr. Rima Laibow, M.D. – “Huxley’s Brave New World” – #175
September 10, 2013
By Jan Irvin

This episode is an interview with Dr. Rima Laibow, titled “Huxley’s Brave New World” and is being released on Tuesday, September 10, 2013. This interview with Rima was recorded Friday, September 06, 2013.

M.D.Rima E. Laibow, M.D. is a graduate of Albert Einstein College of Medicine (1970) who believes passionately in the right of Americans to choose their own health paths. She has practiced drug-free, natural medicine for 35 years by seeking the underlying cause of every illness and ailment and treating that root cause.
She believes in using nutrients and other natural options to find, define and treat the problems which underlie degenerative, chronic diseases and poor aging while supporting the immune and other crucial systems. She has enjoyed remarkable success with a wide assortment of cataclysmic problems.
Dr. Laibow is the Founding and past President of the NeuroTherapy Certification Board, which she helped establish, in order to strengthen and develop the field of NeuroBioFeedback and bring it into wide-spread use as a powerful, non-toxic tool for modern medicine.
Because of Dr. Laibow’s awareness of the powerful natural, non-toxic options available to treat the underlying cause of disease she is focused on maintaining these choices for all Americans. Based on her understanding of the impact of poor nutrition and chemical/pesticide toxicity on the declining health of America, Dr. Laibow is determined to help Americans maintain the choices that allow them to protect themselves from disease and toxic harm.

http://www.gnosticmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Rima_1531-crp.jpg

[Photo: Rima with husband Ret. Major General Albert Stubblebine III]

Dr. Laibow’s Resume is available here in PDF format.http://drrimatruthreports.com/aboutus/accomplishments/

You can read about some of the Accomplishments of the Foundation here: http://drrimatruthreports.com/index.php?page_id=195

Please make your tax-deductible donation to support the work of the Foundation here:
http://drrimatruthreports.com/index.php?page_id=189

Donations. This episode was brought to you by:

Randy

Epsilons (singing)
No more Mammy, no more Pappy: Ain’t we lucky, ain’t we happy? Everybody’s oh so happy, Everybody’s happy now!

Sex galore, but no more marriages; No more pushing baby carriages; No one has to change a nappy­ Ain’t we lucky, ain’t we happy: Everybody’s happy now.

Dope for tea and dope for dinner, Fun all night, and love and laughter; No remorse, no morning after.
Where’s the sin, and who’s the sinner? Everybody’s happy now.

Girls pneumatic, girls exotic, Girls ecstatic, girls erotic­
Hug me, Baby; make it snappy. Everybody’s oh so happy, Everybody’s happy now.

Lots to eat and hours for drinking
Soma cocktails-no more thinking.
NO MORE THINKING, NO MORE THINKING!

~ Aldous Huxley, 30 September, 1956. Moksha, pg. 114

About the Webinar for TOMORROW, 9/11/2013

Thank you for your interest in attending the September 11, 2013 Webinar, Autism: An Inside Job.
The date and the title have been carefully chosen because the evidence we have uncovered suggests that, as horrifying as it sounds, the tremendous upsurge in autism is not an accident and that Autism is, in fact, quite literally “an inside job”.

Please join us on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 from 8 PM to 10 PM Eastern.

By pre-registering you will receive our Thank You gift: a complementary copy of the ebook, Autism: An Inside Job in your choice of Spanish or English. The webinar will be conducted in English.
Use this link to register now: http://TinyURL.com/AutismWebinarRegister.

And I have a favor to ask of you. I would love, absolutely adore if you would share this information with everyone you can reach. That way, you are giving them the opportunity to attend this ground-breaking event.

I know you know how important this information is because your email to me has already made that clear. You know people who need to know this information. Send them this link, http://TinyURL.com/AutimsInsideJob so that they have the opportunity to attend this webinar, too, for as long as seats remain available.

Share, Like and Tweet this event widely. Go to your FaceBook page and create an event with the information and registration links so that all of your contacts get this information. This is powerful information. Autism and other vaccine damage touches us all. I am counting on you to be a point source for the dissemination of this vital information.
You will want to share these links with the people who are looking to you for information they can rely upon:

Don’t Delta Me, Dude!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p3DHtxjLlg

The England Hypothesis – Vaccines Used Because of Neurological Damage, Not In Spite of It to Create Deltas
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/08/dont-delta-me-dude-dr-rima-truth-about-autism-2728992.html

Genome Disruption Syndrome: Do You Have It? What Can You Do About It?
www.GDS-Therapy.com

Agenda 21: Neurocide and Depopulation
www.TRUTHAboutAgenda21.com

Dr. Rima Truth Reports
www.DrRimaTruthReports.com

Thank you for your activism. Because of people like you with families like yours, we are not helpless before the intentions and actions of the globalists.
Yours in health and freedom,
Dr. Rima

Rima E. Laibow, MD
Medical Director Natural Solutions Foundation www.SaveMyLifeDrRima.com

Guns Do Not Kill People: Psychiatric Drugs Kill People:
http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?p=13703

Video Version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oigP3wWPWk8

A Metaphor for our Time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac33ysBPBcc

Be A Vaccine Refuser With ME! https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7IXzZSx4KWST0dKc1g0U2hMbWs/edit

Donate to Health Freedom http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?page_id=189

PUSH BACK WORKS – Current Action items http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?page_id=183

ysmNMfKHJVk

[araucaria]

In other words, if this man is play-acting - and I do find his delivery very persuasive - then fair enough, it has to be counterproductive from the controllers' standpoint. The actor playing Garrison in JFK was only acting too, and pretty convincingly. That doesn't invalidate what he says.

Never ever forget the 85/15 % rule in manipulation (psyops of any kind) to make it seem credible and then there becomes an open 15% window where pretty much anything can be added and the momentum of the 85% truth plus credibility credential lets the receiver get sucked in (spun). If you want some fun, take a look all over the 57,000 messages on this forum to see it in operation. THEN lastly look to see if ANYTHING ever was accomplished or what you saw was TALK plus AGENDA (soapbox)... Just saying that is a practical 101 exercise to test the 85% 15% psyops rule for manipulation. Look at all over the media you get from TV, FORUM, SPEECHEs by the politicos.. hey look at NIXON good buddy Nixon.. ---peace--

I want to add one more thing - those who HAVE been sucked in and believed the spin the 15% funk, I have immense compassion for. IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT what you have been convinced. These manipulators know how to hurt and play the buttons. My understanding is there is a LOT in this forum about getting up past the kick in the teeth, or the oh gees, I made a mistake. We are here to help us to help each other.. thats not all, but there are not enough words to express how much everyone does care.
Dear Bobd, rather than put me out of action for the next three years reading 57,000 posts (630,000 actually: are you in bed with the Heinz family? :)), why don't you go through Dennis's 15 minute video in post #17 and extract for us the 15% or c.2 1/2 minutes of disinfo. That would be useful to some, would it not?

I think you are underestimating the forum if you think that it is chiefly about being duped by the disinfo in conspiracy vids, as if that were our sole focus. There comes a point where you know enough to be doing what you need to do. I don't think people here are necessarily getting sucked in. For starters, very few watch TV. Personally General Stubblebine can say what he likes, it's all the same to me. Part of the process is to act as though the controllers were irrelevant, which they will soon become. If you take your 85/15 rule and dilute it to one in ten with other concerns, your 15% is down to 1.5% overall.

[Bob]

So, to illustrate that the key technologies do indeed exist in the real world, so people can come to understand electronic manipulation in this area does indeed exist in theory and fact.

I failed to mention that the EM waves and microwaves, etc, can penetrate the body and be re-assembled into a lower frequency waveform, via these carrier and transmission techniques. The lower frequencies, then are internal to the body or cranium in some cases of use, these lower frequencies and waveforms will be effective in internal change of the mid, mindset, chemical exchange systems, etc. thus, at first, the basics like mood, mindset, health and immediate body function (the heart stopping ray gun admitted to -in a public hearing) and so on, down to direct worded 'voice in head' communication, etc..

These are 'brute force and ignorance' methods of touching on (attempts at influence) how we as spiritual beings, are connected to the human body, how that interface works.

We are looking at the public beginnings of interference at and in those levels of fundamental human function.

I met and had at length communications with the folks who have build the heart stopping stuff, and noticed how strongly they WANTED to know what counter-measures were possible to counter their infernal machines.. They are looking at things like social media to find those "solutions" to see who will be oblivious to their requests and provide them "free data".

I have a little anecdote where one of the commanders at a very prestigious US Air Force base came to witness a technique to find underground unexploded ordinance - a big problem they had on their base. They came to witness that there was a technique possible to discover very non-invasively and rapidly where their bombs were. After receiving the benchtest results they proceeded to in person say how impressed they were and would shortly get back with a contract to develop the technique and solve their problem in their base and others around the world. 2 weeks passed and no dialog, only to see that they handed the data (even after having signed the NDA's and non-compete agreements) to their pet insiders to build the "thing".. The stealing of data, everyone should realize reading this forum is common place by corporate industry, and the militaries worldwide. It IS the way things are done. The issue is the squandering of resources to make a profit at the expense of others, the environment and of course prime spiritual principles of light.

[Bob]

Dear Bobd, rather than put me out of action for the next three years reading 57,000 posts (630,000 actually: are you in bed with the Heinz family? :)),

why don't you go through Dennis's 15 minute video in post #17 and extract for us the 15% or c.2 1/2 minutes of disinfo. That would be useful to some, would it not?

I think you are underestimating the forum if you think that it is chiefly about being duped by the disinfo in conspiracy vids, as if that were our sole focus. There comes a point where you know enough to be doing what you need to do. I don't think people here are necessarily getting sucked in. For starters, very few watch TV. Personally General Stubblebine can say what he likes, it's all the same to me. Part of the process is to act as though the controllers were irrelevant, which they will soon become. If you take your 85/15 rule and dilute it to one in ten with other concerns, your 15% is down to 1.5% overall.

Like i said I was sucked into this forum thread - I have stated the links, techniques - the 85/15 is the program used to win. It is not something you can divide down minute by minute. It is a factor of telling 85% truth then tossing in a 15% lie. The lie is the method to get people to change.

As to Heinz, no I haven't met them personally, but I have walked through their immense house (so long it was) one time I think it was bak around 89'ish, when I was in the neighborhood being led by the nose by one of the "networkers" trying to seduce me to become one of the spinners for the undercurrent purveyors. I got a chance to see who the manipulators were to see their agenda. The truth was we all need a change, we are under control see... the spin was u need to believe that you need to do it _____ (this way). I won't get into that, this isnt the thread for this - my point was when one is given psyops learn how to figure it out. Do the research, the observations I have found are what I have found is the technique and pattern.

[Bob]

I am going to have to take a big breath to wade into this puddle... it may be deeper than I suspect.

First, does it matter whether Gen. Bert is a dupe or a toad? I mean, lets just thank him for whatever true message he wants to put out and move on.. there is a much more important movement these days and it is all about OUR consciousness. What do you know INSIDE you to be true. If it is it is... I can't tell anyone whethter the general is a good actor, a stooge or just an old man who wants to remember his glory. Perhaps he had his ephiphany and I would sing hallelujha with him. Little effect does this have on me.

Clearly he isn't an innocent and he clearly states there are things he can't talk about... and what he talks about is old news to those of us who have struggled into awareness when the first rays struck our minds.

What does have effect on me and mine? Isn't it a fact that PSY OP continues, the technology advances, the war mongers still sell their wares, the new agers were co opted and more than once... etc., etc., etc.

That we still feed the machine at almost every breath we take, I still drive a car with petrol and buy my steaks at the super market...

In listening to this video I took what was valuable.. and hey, maybe a General would wake up some other old man who wouldn't listen to this hippie chick. So he serves where he serves. And maybe it is just plainly evident that we have to sift through the chaff.. I do not hold THE Truth, Bobd doesn't either, nor Bill Ryan, nor Dennis, nor anyothers who posted... why argue over this man's current motivation?

If we understand how our minds were co-opted, if we understand what the human heart holds, if we can cherish all fellow beings in the Light of Truth.. .. if we can remember our own greatness, then we are doing what we came here to do.



"The hardest task one can have is to continue to love his fellows despite all reasons he should not.
And the true sign of sanity and greatness is to so continue.
For the one who can achieve this, there is abundant hope.
For those who cannot, there is only sorrow, hatred and despair. And these are not the things of which greatness—or sanity or happiness are made."



To that degree, true greatness depends on total wisdom. They act as they do because they are what they are—trapped beings, crushed beneath an intolerable burden. And if they have gone mad for it and command the devastation of whole nations in errors of explanation, still, one can understand why and can understand as well the extent of their madness. Why should one change and begin to hate just because others have lost themselves and their own destinies are too cruel for them to face?

Once again Bravo Christine ! Seeing and feeling what you said MOVES ME. IT is TRUTH, from the heart, with MIND focused in CLARITY.

That is not psyops, that is speaking truth through compassion and joy, offering Hope to move FORWARD, not backwards.

love you in my heart of hearts.

Bob

[Carmody]

Radio frequency, microwave and 100ghz+,active denial weapons, more data:

http://rense.com/general67/psy.htm

[Bob]

..........There are people out there on the net who are CERTAIN I work for the CIA.............


:)


I'm certain you don't work for the British circus. :)

I was more thinking about Alexander as the hefty dark one. But the thing that keeps on niggling me is all about that much corrupted word:

Intelligence.

I often think about how that word is used so much as a cover-all word by the dark and the light side to mean something that is really nothing more than crookery.

Perhaps someone here can educate me to understand exactly how it was that the secret and wicked 'guard' around figures of power ended up being called the 'intelligence' agencies or services. Sure, there are a lot of very clever people hand picked for that kind of thing so it's likely that there is an above average IQ in that group but I take offense at the notion that intelligence and crime are so bound together in the common psyche.

Why am I offended? because the whole dark crooked system is running a corrupt monopoly on smarts. The psyop is all about maintaining that monopoly on smarts. They don't just operate in isolation from the rest of us. They control and micro manage the whole grid of joined up thinking like a motorway network that extends out to everywhere, but the central hub is a ring road right about themselves.

The biggest thing working in their favor right now IS the blatant obvious fact that all intelligent eyes are focused right on them. The unbelievable cold face lying constantly affirms that dynamic. It's as if they are on a recruitment/educational drive to create a much more massive pool of corrupt intelligence around them that they somehow, eventually, intend to trick or force us into becoming.

I know it might seem contrary to what we, most of us, think we are all about, but how else can this dynamic be made sense of?

They've got millions of people chasing after the "truth". Not one of us really knows what the "truth" is. We haven't got there or found it yet, so we are still only a structured crowd that's stretching out with the 'smartest' leading the stretch. As long the crooked intel folks possess more of the 'truth' than we do, they still have the bull ( us ! ) by the ring in his nose.

What might they be wanting to do with this stretching forward crowd of truthers?

They probably want to exploit it.

How would they do that?

By maintaining their monopoly on the one thing this truther crowd is all fired up and hungry for.

Always a little bit more truth, a tiny piece at a time, but always at a lesser rate than the rate they are CREATING IT.

Norman you are BRILLIANT !! I see what you point out as so focused and identifying what is happening, that IS the first step to the dis-arming and the dismemberment of the massive machine based on the simple truth which is "HIDE IT to make it important, then only talk a little bit about it to keep it in MYSTERY" and everyone around it are reduced from power to pawn.

One more point - scarcity manipulation is the technique to create a perceived worth. That basis is the stranglehold on the world's economies as well. People are TOLD there are no resources therefore if you WANT It you are gonna have to pay for it or go into debt. (the KING rules even more so in today's societies, speaking king figuratively as the one who holds the title to the land one is renting)..

They are in FEAR. That is the motivation - as Christine has pointed out, they need to get past that. There is a way to hold within oneself a mental thought, "who was the first person who took it away from you? recall that and now move 5 minutes before when that happened, and knowing what WILL happen shortly, give them a very very big hug instead" What that exercise does is open a doorway a solution for those in fear that they do not have to commit an action that will lead to a downward spiral in themselves eventually, where they become the thing they fear.

beautiful post

Bob

[Carmody]

Then you can add in the point that the voice in the head that creates sounds in the head, interpreted as words, is connected to the mechanism of hypnosis, then you start to figure it out.

when you come to understand that this aspect of the 'voice in head' and 'visual data interpretation' (we call it sight) is nothing more than the upper layer WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) 'now' time flowing aspect of intellectual interpretation, that it is a high level interpretive PROGRAM, in situ and in act/flow....NOTHING MORE.... then you begin to warm up to it.

That this is not the intellect, the intellect, the being...which has no words... that it is just the keyboard/mouse of the system of human incarnation, nothing more.

The point is, partially, to capture people in a moment - of never getting past this important point of understanding. That the body is what creates the flow and state of the interpretive program, and emotions and body control the shape and flow of the data input/output, and the goal is to control the knowledge of that this is a reality (of how we are really wired and exist)... and to shape the 'emotional control override and coloration systems' in a way the remains unseen/unnoticed by the upper interpretive program.

Since it is unseen by the data flow interpretive program... this voice in the head and the visual synthesis, then the intellect/occupant... is essentially.....running blind.

[Atlas]

Either unconsciously or not, they emulate what they see is a winning method to get the attention - but look closely not one of them has ever produced any thing which has benefited society, or even the group - what they have done is kept themselves IN the limelight, using 85/15 to keep getting workshops, sell books, sell radio shows, interviews, get airtime coverage.. but does the end product ever appear? No.. That is how psyops is used by the not so innocent out there to win over the masses which fall into the pretty message.
Good point here Bobd.

[Bob]

Either unconsciously or not, they emulate what they see is a winning method to get the attention - but look closely not one of them has ever produced any thing which has benefited society, or even the group - what they have done is kept themselves IN the limelight, using 85/15 to keep getting workshops, sell books, sell radio shows, interviews, get airtime coverage.. but does the end product ever appear? No.. That is how psyops is used by the not so innocent out there to win over the masses which fall into the pretty message.
Good point here Bobd.

Thanks Buares, it's not to put them down or make them wrong. We are given so many opportunities to see the macro scene by looking around at whatever thing is happening around us - be it a video we may disagree with or a storm sinking 4 million people who though they were all safe.. Or being thanked when opening the door for some stranger.

The thing is to see the opportunities to find the insight, and evolve. I find if one can then share the understanding, if there is someone to listen, sometimes one can see things get brighter. Sometimes we see those who say, lets all jump on the anchor and take the path to the bottom of the lagoon and live there..

hugs once again.

Bob

[Bob]

Dennis and the group

Thank you for this most enlightening and stimulating thread, and thank YOU Mr. Stubblebine for giving us all a way to open up more so .

I commend all for their insights.

hugs to all

Bob

[ulli]

I'm with you in all of this Bobd. In Bert I see an old Prussian...grew up with those guys all around.
If they change their tune its because a decision was made somewhere
by some even more hidden think tanks that the time has come to start sounding "truthful".
Their game is pretty much based on that invincible confidence/arrogance of the long term strategists.
Our main question is how long will this slavery period last? Gripreaper also has the right idea,
the door has already slammed shut.
The thing is to remember is that nothing lasts forever,
less so in this century where it is all speeding up, faster and faster.
All we need to do is use the Internet to help people discover that their minds have the power to create.
If a thought of war enters, change it for a thought of peace, instantly.
Abdul-Baha was a prisoner for 56 years, and was freed by the Young Turk Revolution.
When they asked him what was it like to be in prison all of your life he said "I was happy.
For the only prison is the prison of self."

[Bob]

I'm with you in all of this Bobd. In Bert I see an old Prussian...grew up with those guys all around.

If they change their tune its because a decision was made somewhere
by some even more hidden think tanks that the time has come to start sounding "truthful".

Their game is pretty much based on that invincible confidence/arrogance of the long term strategists.

Our main question is how long will this slavery period last? Gripreaper also has the right idea,
the door has already slammed shut.

The thing is to remember is that nothing lasts forever,
less so in this century where it is all speeding up, faster and faster.

All we need to do is use the Internet to help people discover that their minds have the power to create.
If a thought of war enters, change it for a thought of peace, instantly.

Abdul-Baha was a prisoner for 56 years, and was freed by the Young Turk Revolution.

When they asked him what was it like to be in prison all of your life he said "I was happy.

For the only prison is the prison of self."

Hi ulli :)

Again such a wonderful insight observation and solution - - observe, understand, know and then share in the share is the give back to the all

what did it take 18 hours from the start of the thread to get so many wonderful observations, solutions, insights and help bootstrap solutions? Actual solutions we can use every day. Every moment. Workability.

That's the difference from talking about it and coming up with ways to live the solutions, apply them be them..

I am impressed people - thank YOU !

Thank you again Uli !

Bob

[onawah]

The remarks by Gardener stuck with me through this whole discussion, especially the "zones" that "keep people going round the proverbial circle and not really getting anywhere", which is discouraging, as well as Ulli's remarks about the door that's been slammed shut, which inspires more hope.
What's notable, when taking all into consideration, is the feeling of claustrophobic containment that remains.
The door may have been slammed shut already on the era of mind control and deception, but it still feels to me like some resolution to all that compacted, confidential, :spy::peep: compressed, hyper-controlled (constipated) :sick: :bad: energy still has to be arrived at.
Opening Pandora's box can be an explosive event, :boom:and that's very seductive to conspiracy theorists, but it seems what we are being coaxed into instead is an eventual process of disclosure which will merely afford a very slow release of pressure and a gradual introduction of compromise, along with a slow integration of warring opposites.
It's not as satisfying as a big, messy explosion, but it seems we are being urged to settle for it, nevertheless.
I wish that felt more comfortable. :ballchain: :tsk: :sad:


This conversation is so very interesting and it shows that we are influenced by smooth talk and rhetoric, even when there are very definite opposing ideas. Norman says it well when he says.....

At the time, I'm overwhelmed with something I can't resist that makes me nod and agree with everything they say. At one level it strokes all the right bits of my consciousness but there's something stark raving mad about it too.

Is it that we are still enamoured of our beliefs? Wanting to believe because it fits what's already in there and having a hard time dealing with the cognitive dissonance that an opposing belief/information presents.

It seems to be that intel has, for want of a better description 'containers' & 'scoops' which corall people into safety zones to contain the information in one of many places in order to 'deal' with it to limit any damage. There are many of these 'zones' I think. With specific detail to keep people going round the proverbial circle and not really getting anywhere.

I listened to the Stubblebein interview even though I didn't know anything about him, and my reaction was leave it on the shelf, things have a 'taste' or flavour, a strange sense of something which has a vibe that doesn't make any real sense, (the 'vibe' not what is said) (like Norman articulated) like a frequency wall.
I trust that sense, its all we got really.

[Bill Ryan]

Dear Bobd ... ... why don't you go through Dennis's 15 minute video in post #17 and extract for us the 15% or c.2 1/2 minutes of disinfo. That would be useful to some, would it not?



I've not listened to that shorter interview on post #17 (so am not qualified to comment in it in any way), but it sure would be useful to me for someone to do that with the longer interview with General Bert on Gnostic Media in post #1.

I listened to that interview last night in full, and it was quite late, and I only listened to it once, but if 15% of what he said and shared was falsehood, I completely missed it.

[Bob]

We're all looking - that's what counts and nobody is gonna just rotely take any opinion or video as proof one way or another.

[jiminii]

I am just going to give a viewpoint as to what is happening all around.
1. the first time we came through this period of time LRH found how this universe was created and how it can be vanished.
2. reptilians retaliated with putting sleeper children, (from the future), into the Church of Scientology to take it over when they grow up. So if they are doing it to the Church of Scientology then they are doing it everywhere on the planet and all the other religions too.

3. so we retaliated and sent back the first warriors, (indigos), that don't have an automatic 25 picture a second memory. They can't be implanted, but they can be effected by the memories of the Ghost part of the body, (the ghost is the etheral computer that grows the body and runs it's functions like lion horse dog).

4. then the next wave came back more improved than the indigos called the crystals. and all of these can't be implanted or controlled by mind control

5 then the next wave came in and they are called the rainbows ... more improved than the crystals

6 then another wave is coming through and don't have a name for them and they will infiltrate every walk of life to create love and peace.

7. since all of these are new creations with no automatic memory they can't be implanted.

8. so my thoughts on this is as we die that entity is interchanged somehow with a new entity from the same spirit but without an automatic memory from the future.

9 so this is why they removed the force fields that trap us because they are no longer needed.

10 Those whose technology was used to trap us with mind control can not work on the new entities coming from the future.

so this is why they scream and shout and show their insanity because nothing they do works anymore no matter what they do we find it out


We won this already on this planet, and it can only go up from here.

jim

[Bill Ryan]

------

Hi, Jim -- is that your comment on General Stubblebine?

:)

[Bob]

I think getting back to Dennis' request that we take a look at StubbleBine how sincere he is that we should consider that a MISSILE (fired by whom is questionable, and why at the Pentagon) is a plausible alternative reality, thereby seeing 4 lights instead of three (my reference to that is in the Posts previously, I won't restate again).

I also will restate tho, the purpose of Psyops is to change mindsets, to instill any type of counter effort to break apart and control and thereby win. Break Apart is key, and I mentioned the technique is to create enough smooth hook to suck in somebody (generally with I've got a secret and I will let you in on a part of it, just stay tuned..)

I won't condone a system or a person who started that way in his life, rose through the ranks by following that party line to the status of GENERAL the commander. Nobody has such a "seeing of the light" experience to turn whistleblower on his own people in the system. Anyone believing that really has bought the party line in my fish smacked side of the head opinion.

Since it appears to me folks don't seem to understand PSYOPS, and glibly just say they do, and those who made it their live's dedication (one doesn't get to be a General in the system by being somebody who DOESN'T play by the party rules, A GENERAL guys... don't forget the system) I am going to mention what happens out there, when we all get out of our smooth lounge chairs and put down the coffee or beer... and look at what IS done to people by the Intelligence Services to get one to see 4 lights instead of 3.. This stuff is not armchair what IS done, has been done and is CONTINUING to be done to people.

From: The Craft of Breaking A Man - Torture Methods Used by UB (Urzad Bezpieczenstwa, Bezpieka) Against Polish Underground Soldiers, And Democratic Opposition In Poland between 1944 And 1963

Beating of the whole body ("any possible spot") with:

1.
bare hands (Dusza, Kaskiewicz, Chimczak),
2.
a rubber truncheon (Dusza, Kaskiewicz),
3.
a brass rod (Dusza),
4.
a bar [Dusza and Sgt Stanislaw Wardynski (Wardenski or Wardeski)],
5.
a wooden rule with metal fittings (Dusza, Kaskiewicz, Chimczak),
6.
a stick (Dusza)
7.
a whip (Kaskiewicz)
8.
a blotter and inkwell base (Chimczak, Adamuszek);
Beating of particularly sensitive areas of the body:
1.
bridge of the nose with a rubber truncheon (Dusza),
2.
protruding shoulder blades with a rubber truncheon (Dusza),
3.
gland area of the chin - which resemble mumps when swollen - with a rubber truncheon (Dusza) and rule (Dusza, Kaskiewicz),
4.
shoulder joints with a rubber truncheon,
5.
the outside of my bare feet and in the toe area with a viscous-rubber covered bar (Kaskiewicz),
6.
finger tips with a blotter and inkwell base (Chimczak and Adamuszek),
7.
bare toe tips with a rubber truncheon (Dusza),
8.
bare heels (series of 10 blows - with a rubber truncheon - to a heel, several times a day) - (Dusza),
Pulling hair:
1.
off the top of my skull (Dusza, Kaskiewicz, Chimczak),
2.
off my temples, above the ear and neck area - so called goose plucking (Dusza, Kaskiewicz, Chimczak),
3.
off my beard and moustache (Dusza, Chimczak),
4.
off my chest (Chimczak),
5.
off my crotch and scrotum (Chimczak);
Burning:
1.
of the eye and lip area with a glowing cigarette (Chimczak),
2.
of each hand's fingers with a burning torch (Dusza, Kaskiewicz, Chimczak),
3.
Crushing each hand's fingers placed between two pencils (Dusza, Kaskiewicz),
4.
Crushing each foot's toes (jumping on my feet) - (Dusza, Kaskiewicz, Chimczak),
5.
Kicking legs and torso (Dusza, Kaskiewicz and Sgt Stanislaw Wardynski),
6.
Kicking shin area in particular (Dusza, Kaskiewicz, Chimczak),
7.
Stabbing with pins and nibs, etc. (Dusza, Chimczak),
8.
Face and ears pinching with a hand and key (Chimczak),
9.
Forcing me to sit on the edge of the stool (Dusza, Chimczak),
10.
Forcing me to sit on a bolt hurting my rectum (Dusza),
11.
Cuffing my hands with American automatic handcuffs (pol. amerykanka) which was followed by tearing them off my wrists (Dusza with a platoon Sgt Tadeusz Szymanski),
12.
Physical exercises - forcing me to do knee bends until I swooned (Dusza),
13.
Forcing me to run up and down the stairs for about 20-30 minutes - with the ward supervising at Lt Col Dusza's command),
14.
Solitary confinement for indefinite time (also naked) - (Dusza),
15.
Sleep deprivation for the period of 7-9 days through waking me (I was standing in a freezing cell) with continuous slaps on my face performed by the guarding officer of the former MBP. The method called Beach or Zakopane pushed me into semi-dementia and resulted in mental health problems - visual and auditory hallucinations - their symptoms resembled the body's condition after taking mescaline or peyote (Dusza with wards),
16.
Standing to attention in a prison cell for indefinite time (Dusza with inspecting officers and wards of Mokotow Unit 11 and later (after 11th Nov 1950) Mokotow Block A,
17.
Standing to attention in a prison cell and interrogation room with my hands raised above my head for indefinite time (Dusza with inspecting officers and wards of Mokotow Units 10 and 11),
18.
I was not allowed to receive parcels from my family (every week my sister would send parcels with food, although - according to the regulations at that time - I was allowed to collect merely 10 - 15 out of 70 parcels. The remaining number on Dusza's orders was not returned to my sister.),
19.
Reduction in food rations (during the peak period of my investigation I would be given only 0,5 of coffee, about 350 grams of bread and a litre of thin soup daily). Furthermore, there were times when I would not be allowed to have anything to drink - the torture of thirst on Dusza's orders,
20.
Security checks in my cell, at nights when - after waking - I was forced to stand to attention, unclothed and in a freezing draught for up to an hour (the torture was supervised on Dusza's orders by an inspecting officer - called Hiszpan or Gruby - of Unit 10 and wards.),
21.
Removing windows from my cell (October 1949) for 24 hours while I was sleeping under 1 blanket, partly touching the concrete floor (1 pallet shared between 3 prisoners). The torture was supervised by an inspecting officer of Unit 11 with Mazurkiewicz, a ward, all that at Dusza's orders,
22.
Pouring buckets of water in to the cell regularly. The torture was supervised by an inspecting officer of Unit 11 and the wards - Mazurkiewicz and Stanislaw Wardeski. All of that on Dusza's orders,
23.
Medical help deprivation, although I was ill (urinating blood for 1,5 month). I was suffering at Dusza's orders until dr Kaminska's medical attention (very caring attitude) to all prisoners from Block A,
24.
I was not allowed to have open air [outside] walks and [was] prohibited from leaving the building for the period of 6 years and 3 months on Dusza's orders until 22nd September 1952 when I had my first walk in cell 22 of Mokotow Block A. In addition, I could not have showers for the period of 2 years and 10 months,
25.
Moral abuse. Vulgar and elaborate verbal insult aimed at me and my family members. The abusers included Lt Col Dusza, Maj Kaskiewicz, Capt Chimczak and inspecting officers of Mokotow Unit 11 (Mazurkiewicz, Wardynski and others). While in Unit 11 I was continually bullied by the inspecting officers and wards on Dusza's orders,
26.
I was deprived of any contact with the family (not a single letter or a piece of news from my mother, wife and sister for the period of 4 years) or the outside world (no newspapers etc.) or books (from 30th Nov 1949 to 6th Nov 1952 I did not read a single printed word). All of those on Dusza's orders,
27.
I was subject to moral tortures of the following types:
a) an official (yet false) statement - read to me by Col Rozanski in the presence of Capt Dusza - that my wife, Zofia Moczarska, whom I love dearly, died of tuberculosis
b) an insinuating statement (additionally embellished with crude remarks and insults) of Capt Chimczak concerning an alleged unethical conduct of my wife,
28.
I was subject to moral tortures supervised by:
a) Maj Kaskiewicz who, similarly to other investigating officers, called me a Nazi and wrote the word in bold on my forehead with an acrylic pencil. Furthermore, he would not allow me to wash it off and I was forced to wear it in my cell and during the interrogation,
b) Lt Col Dusza who - in order to humiliate me - ordered to place me in one cell with Nazis (the executioner of the Warsaw Ghetto - SS Gen. J. Stroop among others

That is a START of what is done by the INTEL people, get the data any way they can and break the person, it's not armchair discussion folks.

[onawah]

Yes! :clap2: That's the upside of the whole :tsk: :boom: mess!



3. so we retaliated and sent back the first warriors, (indigos), that don't have an automatic 25 picture a second memory. They can't be implanted, but they can be effected by the memories of the Ghost part of the body, (the ghost is the etheral computer that grows the body and runs it's functions like lion horse dog).

4. then the next wave came back more improved than the indigos called the crystals. and all of these can't be implanted or controlled by mind control

5 then the next wave came in and they are called the rainbows ... more improved than the crystals

6 then another wave is coming through and don't have a name for them and they will infiltrate every walk of life to create love and peace.

7. since all of these are new creations with no automatic memory they can't be implanted.

8. so my thoughts on this is as we die that entity is interchanged somehow with a new entity from the same spirit but without an automatic memory from the future.

9 so this is why they removed the force fields that trap us because they are no longer needed.

10 Those whose technology was used to trap us with mind control can not work on the new entities coming from the future.

so this is why they scream and shout and show their insanity because nothing they do works anymore no matter what they do we find it out


We won this already on this planet, and it can only go up from here.

jim

[Bill Ryan]

I also will restate tho, the purpose of Psyops is to change mindsets

But Bob, what mindset of mine (or anyone else's!) is designed to be changed by listening to General Bert, and believing the list of facts that he presents about 9/11?

(And, as best I understand, they ARE facts. As best I know, he didn't get a single thing wrong, except for Larry Silverstein's name. That's in the shorter video in post #17, which I've now also watched.)

[Bob]

I think you are underestimating the forum if you think that it is chiefly about being duped by the disinfo in conspiracy vids, as if that were our sole focus.

There comes a point where you know enough to be doing what you need to do.

I don't think people here are necessarily getting sucked in. For starters, very few watch TV.

Personally General Stubblebine can say what he likes, it's all the same to me. Part of the process is to act as though the controllers were irrelevant, which they will soon become.

Araucarla - I forgot to mention this and it was sitting with me in the 85/15% truth to "something is wrong" feeling in the 15% window. You say, I DONT THINK PEOPLE HERE are necessarily getting sucked in (that is the 85% truth, agreed), then say FOR starters, very few watch TV...

GEEES LOUISE - - this THREAD started with watching TV, a video that people are sharing all over the place saying WATCH THIS, watch this interpret it for me -

It's worse than just "watching TV" - its looking at the TV computer so selectively to be used to convince, or argue.

That's what's bugged me since you said that, we dont watch TV so its not an issue - - - it sure is we ARE watching these videos and getting INTO the messages.

whatever..

[Bob]

I also will restate tho, the purpose of Psyops is to change mindsets

But Bob, what mindset of mine (or anyone else's!) is designed to be changed by listening to General Bert, and believing the list of facts that he presents about 9/11?

(And, as best I understand, they ARE facts. As best I know, he didn't get a single thing wrong, except for Larry Silverstein's name. That's in the shorter video in post #17, which I've now also watched.)

Billy my good friend and I mean that with the most sincere heart and well wishes. You told us all you believe Bert and his friends are sincere and getting you legit data. I don't consider the background of folks who's lives are about manipulation and psyops as those who would provide legit data. It's nothing more complicated than that. We ALL love you dearly and care about who you are getting your intel from.

[Bill Ryan]

we ARE watching these videos and getting INTO the messages.



But, what's the 'message' from the two Stubblebine interviews in posts #1 and #17, if it's not about what really happened on 9/11 -- plus a little about how his own life and structure of beliefs changed radically after realizing that the Pentagon could not have been hit by a plane?

I can't see any psy-op there at all. And the fact I can't see it doesn't necessarily mean it's there but is clearly working brilliantly!

:)

That's why I'm asking if you could take a moment to explain exactly and specifically where it lies. In those interviews, which is what we're talking about.

Other interviews, and other ex-military spokesmen, may be different cases, of course.

* This is honest-to-god not an accusatory question, but Bob, can you reassure me that you've actually watched those two videos? Some people reading this thread, and also having watched the videos, might be forgiven for concluding that you had not, and that your passionate views were based on beliefs about military structure, other experiences in your life, and extracts from a Polish secret police interrogation manual.

[onawah]

Bill, I had similar questions too until I read Gardener's posts (and Norman's) as follows, but particularly this:

It seems to be that Intel has, for want of a better description 'containers' & 'scoops' which corral people into safety zones to contain the information in one of many places in order to 'deal' with it to limit any damage. There are many of these 'zones' I think. With specific detail to keep people going round the proverbial circle and not really getting anywhere.

The point being that Intel doesn't have to provide incorrect information in order to mislead us; the very specific, deliberate way in which they do it puts us in a loop that goes nowhere and disempowers us into a state of confusion--not completely, but enough to discourage and slow us down.


This conversation is so very interesting and it shows that we are influenced by smooth talk and rhetoric, even when there are very definite opposing ideas. Norman says it well when he says.....

At the time, I'm overwhelmed with something I can't resist that makes me nod and agree with everything they say. At one level it strokes all the right bits of my consciousness but there's something stark raving mad about it too.

Is it that we are still enamoured of our beliefs? Wanting to believe because it fits what's already in there and having a hard time dealing with the cognitive dissonance that an opposing belief/information presents.

It seems to be that Intel has, for want of a better description 'containers' & 'scoops' which corral people into safety zones to contain the information in one of many places in order to 'deal' with it to limit any damage. There are many of these 'zones' I think. With specific detail to keep people going round the proverbial circle and not really getting anywhere.

I listened to the Stubblebine interview even though I didn't know anything about him, and my reaction was leave it on the shelf, things have a 'taste' or flavour, a strange sense of something which has a vibe that doesn't make any real sense, (the 'vibe' not what is said) (like Norman articulated) like a frequency wall.
I trust that sense, its all we got really.

update: I am reminded of a situation awhile back, when Dr. Laibow's Natural Solutions was busy going to international meetings on Codex Alimentarius and broadcasting all kinds of info about it, apparently attempting to inform people and get them to protest. I was still unsure about her and the General given their background, so I dug in a little deeper.
There was another organization, a less high profile but very sincere 501C3 whose name I forget now, who I remember saying that they were attending the same meetings and that the Natural Solutions people were actually causing more problems than anything.
They were making a big show of protesting and hogging what limelight there was for the dissenters, but in actuality, what they were doing was making dissent ineffective and getting in the way of those who were sincerely there to protest.

[jiminii]

------

Hi, Jim -- is that your comment on General Stubblebine?

:)

sorry I didn't do general stubblebine because the videos over here take too long to listen to on this internet.

maybe should put the post in another thread but I don't know what thread to put it in.

jim

[Bob]

we ARE watching these videos and getting INTO the messages.



But, what's the 'message' from the two Stubblebine interviews in posts #1 and #17, if it's not about what really happened on 9/11 -- plus a little about how his own life and structure of beliefs changed radically after realizing that the Pentagon could not have been hit by a plane?

I can't see any psy-op there at all. And the fact I can't see it doesn't necessarily mean it's there but is clearly working brilliantly!

:)

That's why I'm asking if you could take a moment to explain exactly and specifically where it lies. In those interviews, which is what we're talking about.

Other interviews, and other ex-military spokesmen, may be different cases, of course.

* This is honest-to-god not an accusatory question, but Bob, can you reassure me that you've actually watched those two videos? Some people reading this thread, and also having watched the videos, might be forgiven for concluding that you had not, and that your passionate views were based on beliefs about military structure, other experiences in your life, and extracts from a Polish secret police interrogation manual.

====================
Sure - what do you want to talk about?

The issue is the plane verses missile issue - that is the 4 lights verses 3. The guy uses personal life here is how good I am great patriot, then well u know missile verses plane to refute all the actual people ON SITE. Gee that is how to reach all the conspiracy people instantly. What's so hard to connect there as far as the obvious statement?

The Subtitle for this episode is "Men Who Stare at Scapegoats".

General Bert is a graduate of the U.S. Military Academy (West Point, class of 52) who enjoyed a distinguished 32 year career in the U.S. Army.

He retired as the Commanding General of the United States Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM). Prior to this assignment he commanded the US Army Electronics Research and Development Command (ERADCOM). During his active duty career he commanded soldiers at every level. After his retirement he served as the VP for Intelligence Systems with BDM, a major defense contractor. He has brought these experiences to leading-edge medical research and development in collaboration with his wife Rima E. Laibow, M.D

He is a long-term out-of-the-box thinker who redesigned the U.S. Army's Intelligence Architecture while serving as the Commanding General of the U.S. Army's Intelligence School and Center. This intelligence restructuring earned him his place in the Intelligence Hall of Fame.

Among his other accomplishments, he participated in a special task force which defined the requirements of the U.S. Army for future conflict. Many of the innovations he developed helped the U.S. to conduct the First Gulf War effectively and swiftly with a very low casualty rate.

Having defended his country for 32 years and having then worked for the remainder of his career to build better ways of being and becoming well, Bert is determined not to let the forces which are threatening American's health freedoms prevail. Formerly a warrior for America's military, now he is a warrior for America's health and personal freedom.

My point to you which you haven't answered is you are asking us to trust the modern Father of Psyops and to trust the data that he and his buddies are providing to you. And thereby by proxy, we get the data as truth. I stated, I don't believe any psyops guy will ever change and be any different to do anything than what they have been trained to be, to do, and to carry on.

I think if one were to follow up on infiltration of Social Media, one will open up a new thread, but I think this one is about some very simple points - do we trust a psyops guy, actually the Leader to be a valid data source, and how do we feel then being told that his data is not only reliable, its because he is sincere, so convincing and he has so many good credentials. The one credential being overlooked is PSYOPS master.

I am gonna say it again Billy and I mean it sincerely, we all love you and care for you and about you and are concerned very much and trust to God you get the correct intel you are seeking unbiased and truthfully. Big wet kiss.

[Bill Ryan]

We ALL love you dearly and care about who you are getting your intel from.

Well, thank you! :)

But may I ask: what are you referring to when you you say "who you are getting your intel from"? (All the 'intel' I've ever received is open-source and has been freely shared.)


I don't consider the background of folks who's lives are about manipulation and psyops as those who would provide legit data.

I think this may be the nub of the discussion. When General Bert describes his epiphany gazing at that (very small!) hole in the side of the Pentagon, as best I understand from what you have shared, you find it unable to believe that he could be telling the truth. Although everything he says is factually correct (again, as best I know -- see my post #53 above), you are convinced that there must be deception there.

But if there IS deception in his presentation... where is it?

[onawah]

Hello!! That's just it! It's so deceptive, it's nearly invisible.
It looks really good on the surface, but what it actually does is cause confusion. And steals the limelight from the people who are sincerely working to expose the truth.
Deceivers may be telling the truth, but they are deceivers nonetheless.
As the song so aptly put it:

The Rolling Stones - Sympathy For The Devil Lyrics
(M. Jagger/K. Richards)

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for long, long years
Stole many a man's soul and faith

And I was 'round when Jesus Christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that Pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game

I stuck around St. Petersburg
When I saw it was time for a change
Killed the czar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain

I rode a tank
Held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah


I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made


I shouted out,
"Who killed the Kennedys?"
When after all
It was you and me


Let me please introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
And I laid traps for troubadours
Who get killed before they reached Bombay

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game,

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name,
But what's confusing you
Is just the nature of my game


Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me Lucifer
'Cause I'm in need of some restraint


So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I'll lay your soul to waste,


Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name,
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game,

vBecM3CQVD8




But if there IS deception in his presentation... where is it?

[Bob]

We ALL love you dearly and care about who you are getting your intel from.

Well, thank you! :)

But may I ask: what are you referring to when you you say "who you are getting your intel from"? (All the 'intel' I've ever received is open-source and has been freely shared.)


I don't consider the background of folks who's lives are about manipulation and psyops as those who would provide legit data.

I think this may be the nub of the discussion. When General Bert describes his epiphany gazing at that (very small!) hole in the side of the Pentagon, as best I understand from what you have shared, you find it unable to believe that he could be telling the truth. Although everything he says is factually correct (again, as best I know -- see my post #53 above), you are convinced that there must be deception there.

But if there IS deception in his presentation... where is it?

eheeheh - snicker, i don't think I can rephrase it in any other way, the history of the man is about psychological operations and deception is part of the training, and the activity. We have no way of finding deception without being the man. We have no way to interrogate the man, we have no way to read him to know him, we only have his past and the purpose of his department. What we do have is one does not achieve rank without toeing the party line. The rank is about as high as you can get, and to command your staff, you need to know lest you are not in that post long.

The mention of the epiphany - how many people know what that is? Epiphany: a Christian festival, observed on January 6, commemorating the manifestation of Christ to the gentiles in the persons of the Magi. ER, OK, and he had a "religious experience" and uses that to convince us a hole was created by a missile where all actual authority said a plane crashed, but he has a spiritual vision of what happened?

The first mind messing is to start with the mis-appropriate word and then that creates a stupor in the audience. You should know this if you were processed on such things with Capt. Bill during word clearing.

So technique 1 in psyops create the stupor and use it to gain sympathy, and or compassion from the audience.

What else do you want to go over?

[onawah]

And please take note of Ulli's remarks:


If they change their tune its because a decision was made somewhere
by some even more hidden think tanks that the time has come to start sounding "truthful".
Their game is pretty much based on that invincible confidence/arrogance of the long term strategists.

[Bob]

And please take note of Ulli's remarks:


If they change their tune its because a decision was made somewhere
by some even more hidden think tanks that the time has come to start sounding "truthful".
Their game is pretty much based on that invincible confidence/arrogance of the long term strategists.


Thank you one more time for the clarity you bring us all back too :)

[Bill Ryan]

My point to you which you haven't answered is you are asking us to trust the modern Father of Psyops and to trust the data that he and his buddies are providing to you. And thereby by proxy, we get the data as truth.

I'm evaluating General Bert on what he DID say. (DID you watch the interviews?)

Yes (in answer to our direct question), I am asking those reading this to trust him. I fully believe he's a good man.

I am in Present Time with this. I am looking at the man in front of me now. Not some other imagined man.



and to trust the data that he and his buddies are providing to you. And thereby by proxy, we get the data as truth.

The data he's providing is not new. But I'd sure like to show his interviews to a bunch of mainstream people I know who are closer to his age than you and I are. They might get to be impressed, and change their OWN beliefs.

The point is this. If it's a psy-op, it's clearly not a very good one! A LOT of fine, mainstream people will be watching General Bert and, with luck, may be beginning to re-evaluate everything. That's a good thing, right?

As best I know, everything Stubblebine has stated is correct. If I'm wrong, please tell me.

I've NOT watched all his interviews, or read everything he's written, or met or spoken with him personally. But everything I HAVE watched or read of his squares up. I can't recall noticing anything he's written or said since his 'epiphany' that hasn't been bang-on correct in my judgement.

I'm not talking about anyone else apart from Stubblebine. I don't know him well enough to know who he considers his 'buddies' are nowadays. (And, for the record, John Alexander is a definitive, archetypal snake.)

[Bob]

My point to you which you haven't answered is you are asking us to trust the modern Father of Psyops and to trust the data that he and his buddies are providing to you. And thereby by proxy, we get the data as truth.

I'm evaluating General Bert on what he DID say. (DID you watch the interviews?)

Yes (in answer to our direct question), I am asking those reading this to trust him. I fully believe he's a good man.

I am in Present Time with this. I am looking at the man in front of me now. Not some other imagined man.



and to trust the data that he and his buddies are providing to you. And thereby by proxy, we get the data as truth.

The data he's providing is not new. But I'd sure like to show his interviews to a bunch of mainstream people I know who are closer to his age than you and I are. They might get to be impressed, and change their OWN beliefs.

The point is this. If it's a psy-op, it's clearly not a very good one! A LOT of fine, mainstream people will be watching General Bert and, with luck, may be beginning to re-evaluate everything. That's a good thing, right?

As best I know, everything Stubblebine has stated is correct. If I'm wrong, please tell me.

I've NOT watched all his interviews, or read everything he's written, or met or spoken with him personally. But everything I HAVE watched or read of his squares up. I can't recall noticing anything he's written or said since his 'epiphany' that hasn't been bang-on correct in my judgement.

I'm not talking about anyone else apart from Stubblebine. I don't know him well enough to know who he considers his 'buddies' are nowadays. (And, for the record, John Alexander is a definitive, archetypal snake.)

OK finally - -good
this post I will thank you for.

I think I can state this for all who have thanked you in all your immense lists of posts Bill.

Your heart is in the right place.

You care about people and want only the best for them.

Bert was never processed, Bert was never cleared, Bert is not an OT, Bert is not free from what Scio or Freezzone will call clear from Evil Intent.

You should know what being in a condition of trust and power is and not having cleared the issues.

What is most likely the case and you can very easily check on "state of case" is hallucination and dramatization and especially playing "the fixer" or "the commander" is a drama where the implanter is the "winner" and the victim being implanted is the looser, the one receiving the psychological implant and programming. The uncleared leader compelled especially in a psychological field no doubt is under a hallucination where they are dramatizing being the implanter, the guy doing the programming on others.

Bert's background IS being the commander in the historical drama of things implanting others on this planet for control.

So how about we look at it from your statements to us about how well you have received the high level processing from Capt. Bill and lets look at that since Stubblebine HASNT had such clearing, hasnt had the steps to remove EVIL INTENT, we can only conclude seeing the past of his experiences, he is what is said someone who is not one to be trusted, and that is based on the Freezone and Hubbard's observations of what a non-processed person running a dramatization.

I'm only interested in you Bill being given accurate intel and that you can relay to us on the Forum only the highest most accurate data which helps us all evolve in spiritual ways where we help each other get out of mystery and back into joy.

[jiminii]

My point to you which you haven't answered is you are asking us to trust the modern Father of Psyops and to trust the data that he and his buddies are providing to you. And thereby by proxy, we get the data as truth.

I'm evaluating General Bert on what he DID say. (DID you watch the interviews?)

Yes (in answer to our direct question), I am asking those reading this to trust him. I fully believe he's a good man.

I am in Present Time with this. I am looking at the man in front of me now. Not some other imagined man.



and to trust the data that he and his buddies are providing to you. And thereby by proxy, we get the data as truth.

The data he's providing is not new. But I'd sure like to show his interviews to a bunch of mainstream people I know who are closer to his age than you and I are. They might get to be impressed, and change their OWN beliefs.

The point is this. If it's a psy-op, it's clearly not a very good one! A LOT of fine, mainstream people will be watching General Bert and, with luck, may be beginning to re-evaluate everything. That's a good thing, right?

As best I know, everything Stubblebine has stated is correct. If I'm wrong, please tell me.

I've NOT watched all his interviews, or read everything he's written, or met or spoken with him personally. But everything I HAVE watched or read of his squares up. I can't recall noticing anything he's written or said since his 'epiphany' that hasn't been bang-on correct in my judgement.

I'm not talking about anyone else apart from Stubblebine. I don't know him well enough to know who he considers his 'buddies' are nowadays. (And, for the record, John Alexander is a definitive, archetypal snake.)

from just observation of what everyone is talking about on this man Stubblebine, if people are converting over from this high up then it's working, (the raising of conscousness on the planet). It would be interesting to see where it goes from here.

jim

[onawah]

So Bill, you think that that one epiphany erased all the years of Intel and black ops the General was involved in...?
Or perhaps after his epiphany, his handlers couldn't silence him without risking unwanted attention, but managed to minimize his impact somehow-- because so far, considering his background and the influence he might have, his impact on the public and on the 911 truth movement seems to have been minimal.
I still think Ulli made some very good points, and I still agree with Gardener in that something just doesn't smell right.
I sympathize with the desire to believe the best of everyone, but I think that at times, one's love for Truth has to take precedence.

[Bob]

So you think that that one epiphany erased all the years of Intel and black ops the General was involved in...

weeee - - - :)

i mentioned the Scio background which deals with removing hallucination and evil intent. Bert had background with MONROE which is about BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT or inducing neural stupor. It is not about creating higher levels of synchronism, the brain is HOLOGRAPHIC as is the nervous system Bert and buddies went for ENTRAINMENT, which means laying in a solid KNOWN pattern which then can be remotely TAGGED and TARGETED...

Example, when I say you will think of a GUY wearing a CONE shaped BIRTHDAY HAT which is PINK and has pokadots on it, you have received a TAG - a remote viewer wanting to then find you in the matrix looks for people having such TAGS in their space.

SOMEONE with a TAG that a MISSILE shot thru the pentagon put one in a very clear monitorable catergory. RV'ers remember these guys are - putting a TAG on one is done like above. Something EMOTIONAL WITH some key imagery that is unique, is a TAG...

RV'ers look for tags - dohh..

One of the things the neural targeters never were able to deal with is the counter-measures for tagging.

I brought that specific term up to one of the DARPA heads who WAS introduced to me by one of the people on the Hill. When I mentioned that he turned white asked me how did I know about that ?

[Bill Ryan]

The mention of the epiphany - how many people know what that is? Epiphany: a Christian festival, observed on January 6, commemorating the manifestation of Christ to the gentiles in the persons of the Magi. ER, OK, and he had a "religious experience" and uses that to convince us a hole was created by a missile where all actual authority said a plane crashed, but he has a spiritual vision of what happened?

The first mind messing is to start with the mis-appropriate word and then that creates a stupor in the audience.

Jeez, Bob! I know how to use a dictionary. :)

http://merriam-webster.com/dictionary/epiphany




a moment in which you suddenly see or understand something in a new or very clear way.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/epiphany




a sudden, intuitive perception of or insight into the reality or essential meaning of something, usually initiated by some simple, homely, or commonplace occurrence or experience.

Yes, it's completely clear to me that in these times an ex-military man of considerable seniority can have an epiphany, as defined above.

Did anyone reading this ever listen to or watch Canada's former Defense Minister Paul Hellyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hellyer) talking about the reality of UFOs? (Now 90, he's a few years older than Stubblebine, and is someone I did interview. (http://projectavalon.net/Paul_Hellyer_Bill_Ryan_20_July_2010.mp3))

He had an epiphany as well. And so have ALL whistleblowers who were once employed by the military, intel, or government. Every one of them.

THEY, TOO, HAVE COME TO REALIZE THEY'VE BEEN LIED TO. I can offer an extremely long list.

All people are capable of significant change. If we don't sincerely believe that, we should all just pack up and watch TV.

:)

[jiminii]

So you think that that one epiphany erased all the years of Intel and black ops the General was involved in...

I don't really know what an epiphany experience would be like. I just read the definition. Says some kind of Christ consciousness. But if a person went outside his body he would disconnect from this automatic mind and it wouldn't necessarily erase the pictures but it would effectively take their effects away. But we don't know how much effect this will produce. He decided to be in the military and do that route and do that part of it. Something in him decided that. It is like I can heal someone's body and then the person recreates the sickness for maybe some sympathy incident that caused it anyway.

there was a change, but you have to see if it will remain a change in the future. Right now he is delivering a blow against the enemies. He is trying to change sides as he already KNOWS that side so we should allow him to continue to deliver blows against the enemy so he can changer over. Everyone should have that chance.

If we don't do this then he will go to the place he KNOWS he can survive at. He has to KNOW that this is where he can survive and is welcome to change over.

By doing this we allow others who are seeing the insanity they were part of and will be welcome to change over,

the more entities that change over the more life force energy returns to the collective,

we can't slam them with all our "you did this stuff", because they are probably already having a difficult time changing over, The fact that they openly stated the thruth IS a sign we are winning, and we should allow it.

jim

[Bob]

The mention of the epiphany - how many people know what that is? Epiphany: a Christian festival, observed on January 6, commemorating the manifestation of Christ to the gentiles in the persons of the Magi. ER, OK, and he had a "religious experience" and uses that to convince us a hole was created by a missile where all actual authority said a plane crashed, but he has a spiritual vision of what happened?

The first mind messing is to start with the mis-appropriate word and then that creates a stupor in the audience.

Jeez, Bob! I know how to use a dictionary. :)

http://merriam-webster.com/dictionary/epiphany




a moment in which you suddenly see or understand something in a new or very clear way.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/epiphany




a sudden, intuitive perception of or insight into the reality or essential meaning of something, usually initiated by some simple, homely, or commonplace occurrence or experience.

Yes, it's completely clear to me that in these times an ex-military man of considerable seniority can have an epiphany, as defined above.

Did anyone reading this ever listen to or watch Canada's former Defense Minister Paul Hellyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hellyer) talking about the reality of UFOs? (Now 90, he's a few years older than Stubblebine, and is someone I did interview. (http://projectavalon.net/Paul_Hellyer_Bill_Ryan_20_July_2010.mp3))

He had an epiphany as well. And so have ALL whistleblowers who were once employed by the military, intel, or government. Every one of them.

THEY, TOO, HAVE COME TO REALIZE THEY'VE BEEN LIED TO. I can offer an extremely long list.

All people are capable of significant change. If we don't sincerely believe that, we should all just pack up and watch TV.

:)

My point was not to brow beat you about the use or lack of it the dictionary. I am fully convinced you are a sincere beautiful person with a heart so big nobody would realize it until they see the gifts that you give to people when they are not looking. That is so amazing a talent, so much love so much joy, it is mind boggling and your courage, I know NOBODY who can do what you do !

My point was when people use a term that some may not have in their day to day to know ALL the definitions (ever do word clearing exercises, and what the EP is on word clearing?) anyway

I call epiphany in an uncleared potentially a bank hallucination. I call that from experience. As I have met the man in 92 I have no other feeling than what I felt then and what I saw in the video is only more of the same.

I don't personally trust the man, and I prefer to believe those who were in the building. Oh, I did walk the Pentagon building first hand, so something I do is find out myself. There was no feeling or psychic indication of ANY thing other than a plane had struck there. That is what I found PERSONALLY being there, granted not at the moment of the strike but afterwards. Strange how I forgot that until just now. Thank you for re-triggering that in me.

I wonder Bill, and outloud, there are a few interesting threads I glanced over on the Forum, (this is an amazing place, I can say I have NEVER ever met so many intense compassionate and passionate people ever in any Forum).

DO you think you can get Stubblebine to go for one of your Interviews? That I would like to be on the panel for and ask personally a few questions.

Bill I know people can have significant change - it happens when the brain CIRCUITS change. It can happen from STROKE (which is likely in StubbleBine's case if that was actually a real epiphany), or from a Virus, or from a neural program induced by a remote viewer "implanter", or from a satellite induced suggestion (carmody mentioned some of that tech exists as have I).

I know what it feels like to realize what you have been told is a lie. When you have given your trust, and find your friends used you for whatever. It's not fun and when someone uses that as a way to say, well that happened to me, one tends to believe the one saying that.

It's though not hard to use that as the way in. And I am only pointing out you are dealing with the key expert in psiops and to say that HE is not that any more is challenging to my common sense, and to my personal meeting feelings with him. SO between him and his buddy Dr Death Alexander I don't see that those who have those types of friends are any different.

All I care in this matter Bill is about you and for you. I know you have done everything in your power to better yourself so that you can be more of the highest quality service to mankind. It takes a very special person to do that, and you ARE that person, and if I had a party hat I would take it off, but I will not eat it :)

big hug

[Shane]

Let us not underestimate what a human being can come back from. It may take a long time and a lot of work (at times) and part of that work (also, at times) can mean trying to make a positive change in an area you personally made a negative change. Personally I wouldn't put it past anyone at any level. (Providing they are human or some other type of "good hearted" being).

Data and information are just what they are. I appreciate what this man is putting forward. (Whether he's all right or not )

Thank you for this thread posting!

[Bob]

Let us not underestimate what a human being can come back from. It may take a long time and a lot of work (at times) and part of that work (also, at times) can mean trying to make a positive change in an area you personally made a negative change. Personally I wouldn't put it past anyone at any level. (Providing they are human or some other type of "good hearted" being).

Data and information are just what they are. I appreciate what this man is putting forward. (Whether he's all right or not )

Thank you for this thread posting!

Thank you for jumping in and welcome to this most amazing place. There is so much here in this forum and the people are so passionate I find myself in AWE many times.

[onawah]

Paul Hellyer has also frequently, when he is giving public presentations, referred to the 911 event as being caused by terrorists with box cutters who hijacked the airplanes that crashed into the Twin Towers."
How's that for a TAG? :sad:
It may be that some of these people are being handled and don't even know it.
But when I heard Hellyer giving that terrorist with boxcutters speech at the Citizen Forum for Disclosure, I just had to groan and switch it off.
As far as I was concerned, any good he might have done by testifying about UFOs (and what he disclosed was minimal) was undone by that ignorant blather. :blah:




The mention of the epiphany - how many people know what that is? Epiphany: a Christian festival, observed on January 6, commemorating the manifestation of Christ to the gentiles in the persons of the Magi. ER, OK, and he had a "religious experience" and uses that to convince us a hole was created by a missile where all actual authority said a plane crashed, but he has a spiritual vision of what happened?

The first mind messing is to start with the mis-appropriate word and then that creates a stupor in the audience.

Jeez, Bob! I know how to use a dictionary. :)

http://merriam-webster.com/dictionary/epiphany




a moment in which you suddenly see or understand something in a new or very clear way.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/epiphany




a sudden, intuitive perception of or insight into the reality or essential meaning of something, usually initiated by some simple, homely, or commonplace occurrence or experience.

Yes, it's completely clear to me that in these times an ex-military man of considerable seniority can have an epiphany, as defined above.

Did anyone reading this ever listen to or watch Canada's former Defense Minister Paul Hellyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hellyer) talking about the reality of UFOs? (Now 90, he's a few years older than Stubblebine, and is someone I did interview. (http://projectavalon.net/Paul_Hellyer_Bill_Ryan_20_July_2010.mp3))

He had an epiphany as well. And so have ALL whistleblowers who were once employed by the military, intel, or government. Every one of them.

THEY, TOO, HAVE COME TO REALIZE THEY'VE BEEN LIED TO. I can offer an extremely long list.

All people are capable of significant change. If we don't sincerely believe that, we should all just pack up and watch TV.

:)
update: I should add that when I posted a link to the discussion about the General on a Facebook page where some local people I know were discussing 911, someone immediately ridiculed Stubblebine as the inspiration for the "Men who Stare at Goats" and as someone who wanted to train soldiers to walk through walls (the inference being that was obviously impossible, so the man must be a nutcase).
So what this leads me to is the thought that possibly he was hand picked to be the "changeover example" by the controllers because he could be easily discredited if they wanted him to be.

[onawah]

I don't know if the General is trying to change sides or not, but I think that's a possibility, and I agree, he should have that chance.
And again, I quote Ulli:

If they change their tune its because a decision was made somewhere
by some even more hidden think tanks that the time has come to start sounding "truthful".
Their game is pretty much based on that invincible confidence/arrogance of the long term strategists.

So "they" may still be coming from a place of invincible confidence and arrogance, and possibly "they" are still managing the changeover from behind the scenes, but the change is still inevitable, which is great.
I just don't want to shut my eyes to all the possibilities.
Truth is just too precious, even if it's disillusioning.




there was a change, but you have to see if it will remain a change in the future. Right now he is delivering a blow against the enemies. He is trying to change sides as he already KNOWS that side so we should allow him to continue to deliver blows against the enemy so he can changer over. Everyone should have that chance.

If we don't do this then he will go to the place he KNOWS he can survive at. He has to KNOW that this is where he can survive and is welcome to change over.

By doing this we allow others who are seeing the insanity they were part of and will be welcome to change over,

the more entities that change over the more life force energy returns to the collective,

we can't slam them with all our "you did this stuff", because they are probably already having a difficult time changing over, The fact that they openly stated the thruth IS a sign we are winning, and we should allow it.

jim

[Dennis Leahy]

This thread has gone off the tracks, off the wall, and out of the galaxy (ridiculous.)

So far, I see innuendo and guilt by association used to discredit Stubblebine, and thus discredited, he simply MUST be lying. Or lying 15%.

If this guy is a lying creep in the 2 videos I posted, then I'd like a very simple explanation of exactly where. What was said, or what was deliberately omitted? It is a fair request. Show me the psyops, not the history of someone you believe simply MUST be only capable of psyops.

I think Gardener tried, and said he felt a shift and some entrainment going on at the 12 minute mark. I went back and watched it a couple more times. I have given this clip to people quite a number of times, and have re-viewed it at least 2 dozen times. It doesn't matter that I generally do not trust anyone who was career military (sorry military friends, it was obviously something I got past with you or we wouldn't be friends.) The very first time I saw this interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daNr_TrBw6E) that distrust of military - especially high ranking military - caused me to scrutinize him carefully. I don't see the lie, I don't see the psyop, I don't see the advantage that the dark forces would have by having Stubblebine offer this material. Looking at the "9/11 Truth Movement" honestly and realistically, there was a zero point zero percent chance that justice was going to be forthcoming. I appreciate the community for its efforts, but jesus h christ, asking for a new investigation was what the biggest 9/11 Truth organization wanted? A new investigation with the embedded crooked Congress, crooked prosecutors, crooked judicial system? Ha! Why? So we can hear one more time that 19 Arabs with boxcutters sliced through NORAD and the laws of physics? (There is absolutely no chance of justice unless US citizens take over the US government first.)

So anyway, back to the state of affairs with the 9/11 Truth Movement, just before Stubblebine came forward: NOTHING was going to come of it. The same as the JFK public, broad daylight murder. Why oh why would the dark forces march out Stubblebine? Give me a logical reason for that move, please. Please, not his credentials or how many goats he stared at or who he is friends with. Tell me what advantage it gave the dark forces to have an extremely high-ranking military officer come out saying 9/11 was an inside job?

For those that say, "The info was already out. He said nothing new." - this is the same thing said of Snowden. Humans are not computer programs. We are greatly affected by the messenger, not just the message. I can tell you for a fact that Stubblebine provided the needed wake-up call for several people that I know - people who had never paid any attention to conspiracy analysis before. Before Stubblebine gave his "testimony", many people assumed that dorky, idiot conspiracy nuts that have no idea what they are talking about said that and were debunked. Now a general said it. That is several orders of magnitude more powerful than a pickup truck full of no-name, no-credential "conspiracy nuts" saying the same thing. (Same was true for Snowden. It may have already been known, but no one had ever delivered it to the public the way Snowden did in the Greenwald interview.)

We have all the evidence we need to prove the official 9/11 story is a pack of lies. Lack of information and analysis is NOT why 9/11 is stuck forever on a mobius strip. The disinfo and misinfo and psyops are NOT the reason why 9/11 is stuck forever on a mobius strip, so don't give them the credit they don't deserve. The real answer (repeating myself) is exactly the same reason GMOs have not been stopped, or why the bankers and traders have not been stopped, or why the collusion between Congress and corporations - the corporatocracy - has not been stopped, or why the imperialistic war-for-profit paradigm has not been stopped. None of the activists know what to do with the info they have! They all have plenty of info. They keep going back to the US Mafia Federal Government and asking the Mafia to stop the Mafia, or to prosecute the Mafia.

Of course I'd love it if the metaphysical intervention from us earthly souls is enough to somehow break through the ownership and control of the planet by 0.0001% of the population, bringing a new era of peace and harmony and abundance - but if there is a 3D, concrete task that must be accomplished in order for this new era to occur, it will be the citizens of the only superpower country taking the helm away from the government that controls the largest and deadliest military in world history. That is the key. Citizens actually controlling the government. The key to justice/truth for 9/11 to finally become reality, as well as all of the greed-based and faux-scarcity based gambits being played on humanity to give power and wealth to the few at the top of the pyramid.



Lastly for Dennis, you asked who the heck am I to challenge the Kings -
I have over 40 years of experience direct first hand experience - one on one inside stuff. I have a 15 page resume of accomplishments in many fields and technologies. I can say I have been there and done that. What I say comes from finding out personally. I don't need to report hearsay armchair stuff and expect people to believe it, nor do I create fancy video's so that people have an armchair no effort pour the experience in watching eye-candy. I just don't do it. I have stated this before in many posts (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/search.php?do=finduser&userid=17746&contenttype=vBForum_Post&showposts=1)

Just to state it here, the phrase "Dennis, you asked who the heck am I to challenge the Kings" is a bit of a psyop, no? I never asked that, nor did I float that vibe toward you, Bobd. I said I didn't know your background, thinking that maybe you'd not only expose just exactly what it was that I missed in the videos, but (just because I was intrigued that you feel so strongly that you know) how you know. You don't have to tell me your background, but I do hope you'll point out the psyops in the video.

You still may be correct, but you have not shown it to me. From my vantage point, you've attacked Stubblebine from several angles, but you haven't shown me what I missed in the videos that shows a psyop, and why his coming forward about 9/11 being an inside job is a psyop. Further, you've told us that you are good friends with James Woolsey, the former director of the CIA. Stubblebine's association with known dark pathers indicts him, in your mind. Can you see how easy it would be to toss you in the same bin? Maybe guilt by association is not that great an idea.

I started the thread to give a platform to Stubblebine, in his latest interview. Gripreaper said "Bert woke up late and is now sounding the clarion call of awakening", which I took as agreement that Stubblebine is on our side, but something happened after that and Grip's next post included
"... To the 15% who may take his declaration; that there are some inconsistencies in the official 9-11 story, we already know that without Stubblebine’s declaration. It just puts him out here with the rest of us conspiracy theorists who are still rattling on about 9-11 twelve years later…blah…blah…blahhh… Can’t we let the poor victims rest in peace?

As far as what does he know, and when did he know it, and who knew who used it, I’d say he’s dirty. How can you be at the top and not know? I find the plausible deniability disingenuous. Can a leopard change its stripes? Not likely. Very, very unlikely, especially in the top ranks of the military.

So, from my point of view, this interview has very little import and only serves to confirm that Stubblebine stares at goats and is an old fart who is listening to too much alternative media...."which was a surprising turn of the weather vane.

Grip, if there is ANY value in ANYONE coming forward about 9/11, how can a general's (a general with credentials of experience examining photographic evidence) declarations have "very little import?" Do you mean, it will produce no results? If that is the criteria to measure the importance, I agree with you - but it is because there will be no truth or justice with the US Federal Mafia Government intact, not because Stubblebine's declarations are meaningless.

Dennis

p.s. If I appear to be silent regarding any further developments in this thread, it is because I'm taking a brief sabbatical. I'll check back when I can. If Stubblebine is proven to be a psyops master with this "testimony", and you slice him and dice him, save me some white meat. If innuendo and character assassination via association fail to deliver him up, then maybe Bert woke up late and is now sounding the clarion call of awakening, and doesn't deserve the poison-tipped arrows.

[Bob]

So you think that that one epiphany erased all the years of Intel and black ops the General was involved in...

I don't really know what an epiphany experience would be like. I just read the definition. Says some kind of Christ consciousness.

But if a person went outside his body he would disconnect from this automatic mind and it wouldn't necessarily erase the pictures but it would effectively take their effects away.

But Jim, we don't know that he went outside his body - a person not doing normal OBE only has that happen during something like a body or brain trauma. If he had a brain trauma a mini-stroke then all his epiphany was purely hallucinatory. I met the man in 92, did you? I haven't seen any change, all I hear is someone jumping on the party bandwagon to tell me he is one of us now. I just don't feel it, nor do I see it that he is not using prior training to infiltrate.



But we don't know how much effect this will produce. He decided to be in the military and do that route and do that part of it.

Something in him decided that.

It is like I can heal someone's body and then the person recreates the sickness for maybe some sympathy incident that caused it anyway.

there was a change, but you have to see if it will remain a change in the future.

We think we are seeing a change based on the propaganda being put out - that is ALL we are seeing. We should not fill in or dub in what we want to believe may be happening. OBNOSIS - see what is there as it is.. That's OT and clear stuff Jim, you know that, don't dub in and don't go for wishful things that it has changed and is any different than it has been in the past. I can open my heart to expectations about evolving, but I will not create a delusion to create wish fulfillment, in this case that THE key Psyops manipulator on the planet has become anything different.





Right now he is delivering a blow against the enemies. er.. and so did NIXON?




He is trying to change sides as he already KNOWS that side so we should allow him to continue to deliver blows against the enemy so he can changer over. Everyone should have that chance.

I think that is wishful thinking, I don't feel it, I haven't been convinced. I walked the Pentagon been there, I did NOT get any feelings nor have ANY observations from ANY of the people I met there, that there was ANYTHING different than a PLANE went through, not a missile. I am reporting my direct observations being there. I didn't have any epiphany, I met people saw the place walked the place. It is very very very big and it takes HOURS walking all the different layers. And there are some interesting things there, but this is not the place to discuss what IS there. That is their privacy and I will not violate THEIR privacy.




If we don't do this then he will go to the place he KNOWS he can survive at.

He has to KNOW that this is where he can survive and is welcome to change over.

that is a great and noble gesture. Control the man by giving him an opportunity to go this way or stay the old way. Our way or the highway down the tubes. Odd we are like him then aren't we enforcing OUR will on him to change. I am not being a stickler here but we should not get into using POWER to change the man.



By doing this we allow others who are seeing the insanity they were part of and will be welcome to change over,

the more entities that change over the more life force energy returns to the collective,

we can't slam them with all our "you did this stuff", because they are probably already having a difficult time changing over,

The fact that they openly stated the truth IS a sign we are winning, and we should allow it.
What truth, I see only a hallucination being talked about that a MISSILE went thru the pentagon. I didn't get it when I walked the place and reviewed it. And I trust myself to know what I observed and felt. And what I heard from the people who are there and work there it was a plane and not a missile. I didn't spend any length of time, I wish I were able to there. It is a most interesting place.



jim

[Bob]

No Dennis this thread is precisely about what it should be - showing that someone with a background as the LEADER in the field of psyops can put out a convincing video that a missile went through a place where authority and people there say the other wise. It says that he has in-fact created a culture that believes what is said in the video. I think this is a beautiful thread precisely what I was hoping for to get into the methods and techniques how PSYOPS are an integral part of how Social MEDIA is used to manipulate.

There is no point in the VIDEO to say anything there is a LIE. That is not the point. The point is a missile didn't go thru the pentagon a plane did. BUT people want to believe the change in the man is he has seen the light, therefore we should now believe him. I met the man and I don't believe him. I won't change my opinion, from what I know about hallucination events, (I am an EMT and have worked in medical situations and I have very good friends who are pHds in neurosciences), the guy most likely had a mini stroke if he is actually sincere and change. I don't feel that is the case but that is MY opinion and I am entitled to what I feel and what I saw when I met him the first time. His background is simply amazing - powerful very very powerful and God bless him for being so dedicated.

I just am not supportive of psyops and never ever will be.

Blessing Dennis and thanks so much for jumping back in - you opened a WONDERFUL hornets nest. And the great dialog by very great people has been very very appreciative. I commend ALL who have watched talked and looked for the BEST outcome. I love you all for that.

-------------



This thread has gone off the tracks, off the wall, and out of the galaxy (ridiculous.)

So far, I see innuendo and guilt by association used to discredit Stubblebine, and thus discredited, he simply MUST be lying. Or lying 15%.

If this guy is a lying creep in the 2 videos I posted, then I'd like a very simple explanation of exactly where. What was said, or what was deliberately omitted? It is a fair request. Show me the psyops, not the history of someone you believe simply MUST be only capable of psyops.

I think Gardener tried, and said he felt a shift and some entrainment going on at the 12 minute mark. I went back and watched it a couple more times. I have given this clip to people quite a number of times, and have re-viewed it at least 2 dozen times. It doesn't matter that I generally do not trust anyone who was career military (sorry military friends, it was obviously something I got past with you or we wouldn't be friends.) The very first time I saw this interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daNr_TrBw6E) that distrust of military - especially high ranking military - caused me to scrutinize him carefully. I don't see the lie, I don't see the psyop, I don't see the advantage that the dark forces would have by having Stubblebine offer this material. Looking at the "9/11 Truth Movement" honestly and realistically, there was a zero point zero percent chance that justice was going to be forthcoming. I appreciate the community for its efforts, but jesus h christ, asking for a new investigation was what the biggest 9/11 Truth organization wanted? A new investigation with the embedded crooked Congress, crooked prosecutors, crooked judicial system? Ha! Why? So we can hear one more time that 19 Arabs with boxcutters sliced through NORAD and the laws of physics? (There is absolutely no chance of justice unless US citizens take over the US government first.)

So anyway, back to the state of affairs with the 9/11 Truth Movement, just before Stubblebine came forward: NOTHING was going to come of it. The same as the JFK public, broad daylight murder. Why oh why would the dark forces march out Stubblebine? Give me a logical reason for that move, please. Please, not his credentials or how many goats he stared at or who he is friends with. Tell me what advantage it gave the dark forces to have an extremely high-ranking military officer come out saying 9/11 was an inside job?

For those that say, "The info was already out. He said nothing new." - this is the same thing said of Snowden. Humans are not computer programs. We are greatly affected by the messenger, not just the message. I can tell you for a fact that Stubblebine provided the needed wake-up call for several people that I know - people who had never paid any attention to conspiracy analysis before. Before Stubblebine gave his "testimony", many people assumed that dorky, idiot conspiracy nuts that have no idea what they are talking about said that and were debunked. Now a general said it. That is several orders of magnitude more powerful than a pickup truck full of no-name, no-credential "conspiracy nuts" saying the same thing. (Same was true for Snowden. It may have already been known, but no one had ever delivered it to the public the way Snowden did in the Greenwald interview.)

We have all the evidence we need to prove the official 9/11 story is a pack of lies. Lack of information and analysis is NOT why 9/11 is stuck forever on a mobius strip. The disinfo and misinfo and psyops are NOT the reason why 9/11 is stuck forever on a mobius strip, so don't give them the credit they don't deserve. The real answer (repeating myself) is exactly the same reason GMOs have not been stopped, or why the bankers and traders have not been stopped, or why the collusion between Congress and corporations - the corporatocracy - has not been stopped, or why the imperialistic war-for-profit paradigm has not been stopped. None of the activists know what to do with the info they have! They all have plenty of info. They keep going back to the US Mafia Federal Government and asking the Mafia to stop the Mafia, or to prosecute the Mafia.

Of course I'd love it if the metaphysical intervention from us earthly souls is enough to somehow break through the ownership and control of the planet by 0.0001% of the population, bringing a new era of peace and harmony and abundance - but if there is a 3D, concrete task that must be accomplished in order for this new era to occur, it will be the citizens of the only superpower country taking the helm away from the government that controls the largest and deadliest military in world history. That is the key. Citizens actually controlling the government. The key to justice/truth for 9/11 to finally become reality, as well as all of the greed-based and faux-scarcity based gambits being played on humanity to give power and wealth to the few at the top of the pyramid.



Lastly for Dennis, you asked who the heck am I to challenge the Kings -
I have over 40 years of experience direct first hand experience - one on one inside stuff. I have a 15 page resume of accomplishments in many fields and technologies. I can say I have been there and done that. What I say comes from finding out personally. I don't need to report hearsay armchair stuff and expect people to believe it, nor do I create fancy video's so that people have an armchair no effort pour the experience in watching eye-candy. I just don't do it. I have stated this before in many posts (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/search.php?do=finduser&userid=17746&contenttype=vBForum_Post&showposts=1)

Just to state it here, the phrase "Dennis, you asked who the heck am I to challenge the Kings" is a bit of a psyop, no? I never asked that, nor did I float that vibe toward you, Bobd. I said I didn't know your background, thinking that maybe you'd not only expose just exactly what it was that I missed in the videos, but (just because I was intrigued that you feel so strongly that you know) how you know. You don't have to tell me your background, but I do hope you'll point out the psyops in the video.

You still may be correct, but you have not shown it to me. From my vantage point, you've attacked Stubblebine from several angles, but you haven't shown me what I missed in the videos that shows a psyop, and why his coming forward about 9/11 being an inside job is a psyop. Further, you've told us that you are good friends with James Woolsey, the former director of the CIA. Stubblebine's association with known dark pathers indicts him, in your mind. Can you see how easy it would be to toss you in the same bin? Maybe guilt by association is not that great an idea.

I started the thread to give a platform to Stubblebine, in his latest interview. Gripreaper said "Bert woke up late and is now sounding the clarion call of awakening", which I took as agreement that Stubblebine is on our side, but something happened after that and Grip's next post included
"... To the 15% who may take his declaration; that there are some inconsistencies in the official 9-11 story, we already know that without Stubblebine’s declaration. It just puts him out here with the rest of us conspiracy theorists who are still rattling on about 9-11 twelve years later…blah…blah…blahhh… Can’t we let the poor victims rest in peace?

As far as what does he know, and when did he know it, and who knew who used it, I’d say he’s dirty. How can you be at the top and not know? I find the plausible deniability disingenuous. Can a leopard change its stripes? Not likely. Very, very unlikely, especially in the top ranks of the military.

So, from my point of view, this interview has very little import and only serves to confirm that Stubblebine stares at goats and is an old fart who is listening to too much alternative media...."which was a surprising turn of the weather vane.

Grip, if there is ANY value in ANYONE coming forward about 9/11, how can a general's (a general with credentials of experience examining photographic evidence) declarations have "very little import?" Do you mean, it will produce no results? If that is the criteria to measure the importance, I agree with you - but it is because there will be no truth or justice with the US Federal Mafia Government intact, not because Stubblebine's declarations are meaningless.

Dennis

p.s. If I appear to be silent regarding any further developments in this thread, it is because I'm taking a brief sabbatical. I'll check back when I can. If Stubblebine is proven to be a psyops master with this "testimony", and you slice him and dice him, save me some white meat. If innuendo and character assassination via association fail to deliver him up, then maybe Bert woke up late and is now sounding the clarion call of awakening, and doesn't deserve the poison-tipped arrows.

[Dennis Leahy]

You ducked the question again...and now you're stating that a jumbo jet hit the Pentagon! I don't know who you are, but I call bullsh!t. No researcher worth their weight in goat dung says the Pentagon was hit with a 757. Sheesh. You totally discredited yourself with that.

You just know Stubblebine's testimony is a psyop - you just know it. Only, when asked for a shred of evidence, you tapdance.

Yes, the thread took a strong turn. It started out about Stubblebine, and turned into a psyop.

Dennis (minutes away from starting a sabbatical)

[onawah]

The official story that it was an airplane that did the damage to the Pentagon and not a missile has been effectively disproven in any number of 911 Truthers analysis, and the General is certainly very much a latecomer to that particular party.
I doubt that anyone already familiar with the video footage and analysis showing it had to have been a missile was influenced in the least by his realization, because it was all too obvious.
So I have no idea where that denial it was a missile came from, but I guess that at this point, I'm more inclined to join Dennis and take a break from this thread.

Though for me, it has been a very illuminating discussion for the most part, and I am especially thankful to Gardener, Ulli, Bobd, Jimini, and to Bill for asking the right questions.
I had a bit of an epiphany myself and came to some conclusions that have been long in the forming, and feel much clearer now as a result.

Yes, it's a shame we don't have more facts and it would be great if we could rely less on intuition, speculation, and connecting the dots.
But I think we do a great job with what we've got, nevertheless, :nod: and at least we're thinking, and not just unconscious.

[Bob]

You ducked the question again...and now you're stating that a jumbo jet hit the Pentagon! I don't know who you are, but I call bullsh!t. No researcher worth their weight in goat dung says the Pentagon was hit with a 757. Sheesh. You totally discredited yourself with that.

You just know Stubblebine's testimony is a psyop - you just know it. Only, when asked for a shred of evidence, you tapdance.

Yes, the thread took a strong turn. It started out about Stubblebine, and turned into a psyop.

Dennis (minutes away from starting a sabbatical)

I don't believe Stubblebine. I said I met him in 92 and I have seen nothing that his epiphany is any different than any hallucination may be. I was there at the pentagon and walked the place and got feedback, and nobody there feels it was anything other than what was reported. I didn't see a big plane go thru.

WHO DENNIS told you I said that, there is nothing in any of these posts saying the i BOBD said that a 757 went through, YOU dubbed in that - and that is my example of how a PSYOP works. YOU dubbed in missing data. AND you attributted it to ME for pointing out to YOU to look about. YOU DID look about and since I am IN your FACE by talking on this thread OBVIOUSLY it was me that said such when I did not.. That is HOW a psyop works.. You never do know what is happening and you absolutely HAVE to take a break and get out of dodge. The mind can't take that is or was wrong and it dubs in, in the field it is called CONFABUATION - look it up.

You are starting to see what psyops does to you as you said the thread IS about Stubbelbine being a new person now, see look at this video is what you showed is in thread post one and we all did. Thank again for pointing that out. I wanted to get into Stubblebine and even all the others currently working in the field, and who had worked in the field. And you opened the door, as I said early on, thank you. I wanted to tie in how one uses all sorts of techniques to mess around in social media, especially videos, I wanted to tie in the electromagnetics (carmody thank you), I wanted to tie in how foods and beverages in the environment are able to make one more suggestible and you opened the door for all that - thank you again. What you showed me is Stubblebine IS successful in convincing people he has changed, and you believe it, so I understand by the nature of the field he has succeeded. I am sure he and his friends appreciate that you have reached your epiphany. Very well done ! Thank you. That's all it is, just how psyops can do it, and press buttons and get people so much going in so many different directions. And when that is happening, the groups are in the 15% vulnerability window.


I do see your antagonism towards me for pointing out what my feelings are. I appreciate that you can say those things, when a person is hurting they MUST speak up and it is our job to give them a big hug and bring them closer. Does my nose hurt, yes it does. But I still love you.

I don't think I have ever challenged you but have in-fact commended you for your brilliance and magnificence. I have read your posts on the forum now and again, and it's been such a wonderful fresh air experience.

What my point has been is simply my feeling is a leader in psyops is not someone I believe will change and become one of the whistle blowers. What he is doing is challenging his official status as a representative of the US and by that statement challenges his belief in his country and his oath to defend the country. I would think such statements would lend themselves to treason really, so if one were to put that in perspective sure he is old now and like the folks testifying on Roswell for instance, they have nothing to loose. I would not think though one would try to hurt one's peers in the industry by saying that they were lying. Mil folks stick up for each other, and if one were a marine, my gawd.. the service to the Country is tantamount. Nobody turns on the Country and their fellows in the ranks and certainly not from the top.

Those are some of my logics Dennis, please feel free to poke holes in them. As I stated to Bill, my caring is about people not being lied to. And the button is very big about people being told they are now a whistleblower who has seen the light. By the nature of the psyops methods to get to the highest buttons, and you have shown me it IS probably your most highest button, Stubblebine pressed it, and I brought to your attention I don't believe it that he has converted over. That creates a dire charge where you point out you must kick me in the teeth infront of the group. OK I have picked up my teeth and put them back in and found the fish and put it in the refrigerator so I can cook it when we in Colorado run out of food from the floods.

I think people Dennis are important to me, and I think my posts have been about ways to find out, things to look out for indications where things may go wrong. I try to be cautious but I have trusted a lot of good seeming people in the past and I have not found enjoyment in having had my soul ripped out and tossed about like yesterdays news.

I hope you feel better punching me in the nose. I feel better giving you a hug.

[jiminii]

what I see is this. We know OT 7 is auditing out the environment and all our connections to it. We audit out everything you can possibly find to get a meter reaction of any kind. That is OT 7 this lifetime.

But I am looking at it differently. If we are doing this in this lifetime then what are we doing in the future. Now those in the future are only in that piece of the movie. the spirits operating in future are in the same NOW as we are, just operating in a different part of the movie.

This has been what is happening to me. They can do something that shifts the entire consciousness of me. Suddenly I am not this happy go lucky world traveler wandering around in endless experience.

it is like this energy comes in super saturated and does something to the entire space and I find myself looking over the entire planet, (and still being in this bodies perceptions but I can see in the background of my head in color this world changed).

the ethics part of me comes in SOOOOOOOOO strong and the beingness SOOOOOOOOOOO stable it would be like a commander of a star fleet that has that kind of presence. it is like shifting me from this body perceptions to that other body I have on one of the ships up there who IS a COMMANDER OF STAR FLEETS.

So something is happening here. So I am ALL TOO WILLING to let it happen because I can definitely feel this will come in so strong the entire planet may shift valence

you know the word in scientology valence is the assumed personality of someone else. So WHAT IS THE ASSUMED PERSONALITY OF ME the being behind this body that KNOWS.

So I am amazed that Generals are coming out and pulling withholds. it might just be something like keeping my boss's body alive until he can deliver the message. Some entity or process in the future came in and wanted this KNOWN and suddenly the general is coughing it up.

This is what I look at as valuable not this corrupted General. He will probably need a lot of processing.

but some entity inside him got pushed from below his awareness, (the spirit operating the body), and it caused a change to occur. Even if it is temporary it is valuable because IT TURNED A LOT OF PEOPLE when a GENERAL TELLS IT.

look at the outcome of the postulate and that is the result and all the rest is just someone's think. We just have to look at the results appearing in the physical universe and KNOW IT WAS POSTULATED whether it came through a degraded General or not.

this is turning on and off more frequently now, and I am all for it.

jim

[Bob]

what I see is this. We know OT 7 is auditing out the environment and all our connections to it. So I am amazed that Generals are coming out and pulling withholds. it might just be something like keeping my boss's body alive until he can deliver the message. Some entity or process in the future came in and wanted this KNOWN and suddenly the general is coughing it up.

This is what I look at as valuable not this corrupted General. He will probably need a lot of processing.

but some entity inside him got pushed from below his awareness, (the spirit operating the body), and it caused a change to occur. Even if it is temporary it is valuable because IT TURNED A LOT OF PEOPLE when a GENERAL TELLS IT.

look at the outcome of the postulate and that is the result and all the rest is just someone's think. We just have to look at the results appearing in the physical universe and KNOW IT WAS POSTULATED whether it came through a degraded General or not.

Hi Jim, I am willing to look at the concept that a circuit was triggered with him that created a reason to change the approach to reach out.

I asked Bill to get Stubblebine interviewed. I trust he can do that and help us all see objective data. My earlier post sharing my feelings with Dennis said something to the effect, no military man is going to risk being brought up for treason by challenging his peers. However people have lapses in judgement, and maybe it is one last psyops hurrah as the fellow is very old. We have no way of knowing and it would be great if Bill would get him personally interviewed. I hope it happens. and no question I hold in my heart of hearts that the leopard has dropped its spots. If it happens its great but I haven't been personally shown anything that lets me know it is anything but psyops. I been to pentagon, walked the place, and it was very very tiring. People there actually ride bicycles in the place to get from one end to the other, its that big.

I wish people would go to places see for themselves and not just go watching videos and believing, or listening to mp3's and believing. I know it means a lot to have HOPE, that there is a silver lining.

Thanks Jim

Bob

[araucaria]

That's what's bugged me since you said that, we dont watch TV so its not an issue - - - it sure is we ARE watching these videos and getting INTO the messages.

Bob, there have been threads on this forum explaining the subliminal and other effects brought to homes through their TV screen and how Internet videos of the same material were not affected in this way. That is what I thought you were referring to.

As I see it you are basically saying, the subtext of Stubblebine's message to the conspiracy savvy is that anything he says is not to be trusted, and in this particular instance, his apparent toeing the alternative line re the missile is a perverse way of confirming the official story of the plane. Well it doesn't seeem to be working here.

And meantime, if that were his intention, he is also shooting himself in the foot with his message to the less well informed folk out there, basically telling them with the voice of authority that the missile theory they may or may not have heard about or believed is actually true.

If you were in the privileged position of visiting the crime scene (although it was never treated as such), either your intuition let you down on this one or you're going to have to square the plane theory with the concrete evidence. You object to Dennis's interpretation of the plane as being the alleged 757. In that case, I take it it was something else, a military plane perhaps? If so, we are still contradicting the official story. And ultimately the bottom line remains the same: destruction of the records of the multi-trillion dollar hole reported by Rumsfeld the day before. As pulling wool over the eyes goes, I'd say that was not nearly enough wool for eyes that wide open.

[Bob]

That's what's bugged me since you said that, we dont watch TV so its not an issue - - - it sure is we ARE watching these videos and getting INTO the messages.

Bob, there have been threads on this forum explaining the subliminal and other effects brought to homes through their TV screen and how Internet videos of the same material were not affected in this way. That is what I thought you were referring to.

As I see it you are basically saying, the subtext of Stubblebine's message to the conspiracy savvy is that anything he says is not to be trusted, and in this particular instance, his apparent toeing the alternative line re the missile is a perverse way of confirming the official story of the plane. Well it doesn't seeem to be working here.

And meantime, if that were his intention, he is also shooting himself in the foot with his message to the less well informed folk out there, basically telling them with the voice of authority that the missile theory they may or may not have heard about or believed is actually true.

If you were in the privileged position of visiting the crime scene (although it was never treated as such), either your intuition let you down on this one or you're going to have to square the plane theory with the concrete evidence. You object to Dennis's interpretation of the plane as being the alleged 757. In that case, I take it it was something else, a military plane perhaps? If so, we are still contradicting the official story. And ultimately the bottom line remains the same: destruction of the records of the multi-trillion dollar hole reported by Rumsfeld the day before. As pulling wool over the eyes goes, I'd say that was not nearly enough wool for eyes that wide open.

Howdy araucaria - my opinions are my own - I said what I feel, I cited some important history. I said I heard people who work there say they said it was a plane. Many in the group dubbed in 757 and said I wanted others to believe me. I never said I wanted that, I said my opinion is my own how I FEEL. Others feeling different fine. I really don't know what flew into it, I said I was not there when the plane happened and I was there after the fact and have reported what I heard from people who were there.

You say I object to Dennis saying. Here is your quote: "You object to Dennis's interpretation of the plane as being the alleged 757."

I said I object to Dennis dubbing in that I said it was a 757. I said I was told by people there they saw a plane, no missile was seen. The DUB-IN effect is what I point out is something that is a tell-tale marker that a psyops is present. And again it's present in what you pointed out with the dub-in mistake on what I said and say. Very important to not dub in, nor fill in gaps in what one believes is there - the filling in of GAPS is CONFABULATION. I will give an anecdote on that at the end of this.

I pointed out how psyops works is to manipulate what people say and play with hot buttons. When the buttons are pressed people start to dub in, or confabulate what they are thinking is happening about them. Sure a lot of researches say missile, that was not my point, my point was I met the man, went to the place, and I have not seen anything to convince me that it was anything other than what the people there said happened. They said a plane hit it. Could it have been a military plane sure it could. They said plane, they didnt say missile. But a person appears who's background is master psyops in intel remote viewing and the amazing ability to kill remotely, and we see a change of heart and mind, that contradicts and opens up a potential treason situation? And nobody in the industry is questioning that he is turning coat on his peers? All that says psyops. To me it is common sense. And as I shared with Jim, I would love for it to be the best of the best is really there. I hope Bill can interview the fellow.

Anecdote - It the 80's I was featured speaker for Global Sciences invited by Dean Stonier whom got rest his soul let so many of these new players in the field present their cases to the group and created a most amazing following. During that one presentation I made, I had simply a SLIDE SHOW and some music behind the slide show. It was arranged in a manner to evoke consciousness transformation and release blocks and share JOY. When the presentation was done, (it was 20 minutes), I asked the people what happened? Many said the VIDEO that I present was the most amazing transformation they had ever experienced. I presented NO video but used SLIDES plus music and it was arranged to release blocks. To find the joy point and help people to stay in the joy point. I could have easily added in anything in that message but I didn't. My intent was to create a safe space where people could drop their blocks that held them back as beings, and to experience joy a respite from the toil.. That is how dub-in and confabulation works. Psyops knows how to do that and uses whatever tools are needed to reach the audience intended.

[ThePythonicCow]

The point is a missile didn't go thru the pentagon a plane did.
I'm with Dennis on that issue ... there is no way that the Pentagon was hit with a 757.

No sabbatical for me however ... apparently I did something wicked in a past life ... gotta keep on truckin in this one.

[araucaria]

Howdy araucaria - my opinions are my own - I said what I feel,



I am going to have to take a big breath to wade into this puddle... it may be deeper than I suspect.

First, does it matter whether Gen. Bert is a dupe or a toad? I mean, lets just thank him for whatever true message he wants to put out and move on.. there is a much more important movement these days and it is all about OUR consciousness. What do you know INSIDE you to be true. If it is it is... I can't tell anyone whethter the general is a good actor, a stooge or just an old man who wants to remember his glory. Perhaps he had his ephiphany and I would sing hallelujha with him. Little effect does this have on me.

Clearly he isn't an innocent and he clearly states there are things he can't talk about... and what he talks about is old news to those of us who have struggled into awareness when the first rays struck our minds.

What does have effect on me and mine? Isn't it a fact that PSY OP continues, the technology advances, the war mongers still sell their wares, the new agers were co opted and more than once... etc., etc., etc.

That we still feed the machine at almost every breath we take, I still drive a car with petrol and buy my steaks at the super market...

In listening to this video I took what was valuable.. and hey, maybe a General would wake up some other old man who wouldn't listen to this hippie chick. So he serves where he serves. And maybe it is just plainly evident that we have to sift through the chaff.. I do not hold THE Truth, Bobd doesn't either, nor Bill Ryan, nor Dennis, nor anyothers who posted... why argue over this man's current motivation?

If we understand how our minds were co-opted, if we understand what the human heart holds, if we can cherish all fellow beings in the Light of Truth.. .. if we can remember our own greatness, then we are doing what we came here to do.



"The hardest task one can have is to continue to love his fellows despite all reasons he should not.
And the true sign of sanity and greatness is to so continue.
For the one who can achieve this, there is abundant hope.
For those who cannot, there is only sorrow, hatred and despair. And these are not the things of which greatness—or sanity or happiness are made."



To that degree, true greatness depends on total wisdom. They act as they do because they are what they are—trapped beings, crushed beneath an intolerable burden. And if they have gone mad for it and command the devastation of whole nations in errors of explanation, still, one can understand why and can understand as well the extent of their madness. Why should one change and begin to hate just because others have lost themselves and their own destinies are too cruel for them to face?

Once again Bravo Christine ! Seeing and feeling what you said MOVES ME. IT is TRUTH, from the heart, with MIND focused in CLARITY.

That is not psyops, that is speaking truth through compassion and joy, offering Hope to move FORWARD, not backwards.

love you in my heart of hearts.

Bob

Thank you Bob, this is where we find ourselves on the same page. :)

[ThePythonicCow]

WHO DENNIS told you I said that, there is nothing in any of these posts saying the i BOBD said that a 757 went through,
Ah - I think we're tripping over words here.

Stubblebine said the hole wasn't big enough for a plane (unspoken, but rather implied in my view, "not big enough for a commercial jetliner", as presumably there exists some plane sufficiently small to have made that hole.)

You said it was a plane, not a missile (implying that Stubblebine said it was a missile, not a plane ... I did not hear him say missile in this latest interview ... did I miss something, or did he say missile in some other interview?)

Dennis and I are agreeing that it was not a big commecial plane. We think that Stubblebine is agreeing with us.

You are thinking it was (if I read you correctly) a plane of unspecified size, not a missile. I don't know (and would guess wildly that Dennis doesn't either) whether it was a small plane, a drone, a missile, or pre-planted explosives ... just not a big (as in 757) plane.

Dennis and I were thinking you were disagreeing with us when you said plane not missile, thinking you were saying 757 not missile ... which was a confused reading on our part (or at least on my part), arising from the confused dichotomy of plane vs missile. The hole size doesn't tell us plane versus missile; it tells us size - not big.

This aspect of the present controversy is beginning to smell like the usual imprecision of words that trip us humans up every day; no need for fancy psyops tech to do that.

So ... Bob ... do you think that the Pentagon was hit with:

a commercial 757,
some big plane (perhaps 757)
some plane, perhaps big, perhaps small,
a small plane (perhaps a fighter),
a drone,
a missile,
not hit - explosions from within, or
one of a specified subset of the above.

I choose H -- for one of possibilities D through G.

[Ultima Thule]

What you showed me is Stubblebine IS successful in convincing people he has changed, and you believe it, so I understand by the nature of the field he has succeeded. I am sure he and his friends appreciate that you have reached your epiphany. Very well done ! Thank you. That's all it is, just how psyops can do it, and press buttons and get people so much going in so many different directions. And when that is happening, the groups are in the 15% vulnerability window.

Let´s see if I´m up to date:

Bill asked you Bobd what exactly is a lie in Stubblebines interview - as well as Dennis in essence did too.

In this quote you basically express the concern that the 15% of lie might be about to come later - it doesn´t from your pov have to be in this interview. This might be 100% true and only to establish credibility and the manipulative content might come later?

You also say that you have no reason(my rephrase) to believe that it was not anything other than a place that hit Pentagon. That would possibly also be what you claim to be false in Stubblebines interview. Isn´t there a possibility that your first hand beliefs are mistaken in that matter - the photographic evidence does to my convince otherwise, ie no plane, rather something relatively small and pointy.

Many thanks for Bobd, Dennis, Bill et al for a thoroughly interesting thread this far. I see ALL of discussion so far definitely adding value!

UT

[Bob]

The point is a missile didn't go thru the pentagon a plane did.
I'm with Dennis on that issue ... there is no way that the Pentagon was hit with a 757.

No sabbatical for me however ... apparently I did something wicked in a past life ... gotta keep on truckin in this one.

I certainly don't know what plane it was, nor do I know if it was a missile. I re-read dennis's first post one more time, " If you research 9/11, you know who General Albert "Bert" Stubblebine is. This is a new interview, and though I am just listening to it myself right now, I think Stubblebine is one of the most important voices in 9/11 truth, so it has to be worthy of a thread."

Why are people seeming to think I am saying it is a 757 I said I have heard from people there it was a plane, people dubbed in what they wanted to hear and since I am the one saying I don't believe Bert, I'm the one that the dub-in focus has to be on for people to believe they have a new whistleblower that is "one of the most important voices in 9/11 truth".. It was said an epiphany which is a mystical revelation that something happened different from people there on-scene. So I don't know what type of plane was, or why people want to have somebody come up and say everyone on-scene is a liar and they are right in their epiphany. It is common sense to me Paul and emotion aside, it matches psyops and I believe I pointed it out.

So I agree with you and you can side with anyone you want and have any opinion you want as we all can - that is the beauty of a Forum especially with as compassionate and passionate people as we have here.

[Bob]

UT says:
Let´s see if I´m up to date:

Bill asked you Bobd what exactly is a lie in Stubblebines interview - as well as Dennis in essence did too.

In this quote you basically express the concern that the 15% of lie might be about to come later - it doesn´t from your pov have to be in this interview. This might be 100% true and only to establish credibility and the manipulative content might come later?

You also say that you have no reason(my rephrase) to believe that it was not anything other than a place that hit Pentagon. That would possibly also be what you claim to be false in Stubblebines interview. Isn´t there a possibility that your first hand beliefs are mistaken in that matter - the photographic evidence does to my convince otherwise, ie no plane, rather something relatively small and pointy.

Many thanks for Bobd, Dennis, Bill et al for a thoroughly interesting thread this far. I see ALL of discussion so far definitely adding value!

I see a few typos in there and of course we all make typing mistakes, but point is, I have no idea what plane flew into it, I have no idea if it was a missile, I have only my personal experiences of having been there after the fact having walked around the place got really tired doing that and met no one who felt that it was anything other than a plane there that hit, we are talking pentagon, not the twin towers. I stated also because of this being a hot topic to ME and I am seeing dub-in and mis-quotes and statements other than what I said in my posts I am ONLY lead to believe what I am seeing is we are seeing people reacting to a psyop. I point out that in the vulnerable time, after a truth has been said that people are highly emotionally charged in, the right time to create a falsehood is to interject a lie. To me the lie is IT MUST BE A MISSILE - that is the dub-in assumption the mind would create from hearing a person say an Epiphany is the hole must be from a missile. I think people can have visions no question. What I pointed out which was not quoted and left out of a very valuable point is a person can have a mini-stroke and hallucinate, I have seen it in my EMT experiences dealing with patients who have had strokes and brain damage. I have also pointed out that psyops techniques use the above methods to win over minds, to change thoughts. I pointed out a great illustration of it, an old Star Trek the Next Generation episode when Captain Picard is being held and tortured using psychological techniques, he was told that there were 4 lights instead of three and all he needed to do to stop the torture was say yup three lights. I compared that to Stubblebine saying it was a missile.. To me that was the 4th light analogy. What's complicated about that? I pointed out a psychological concept of how dub-in and confabulation works and people miss it and jump on BoBD to put words in his mouth about 757 nonsense, really where? I state a psyops master has no reason to change one's techniques and I have not seen any indication that it is any different than a last hurrah. I said that is my opinion and please show me where it is anything other than that. Thanks again UT for looking for what seems to me to ask for a summary rehash. I think we all need to see a really good explanation by a current in the field working psyops whistleblower maybe bring some quotes from the training manuals and post them so people understand how it is done. I think folks are starting to understand the why's.

[ThePythonicCow]

ER, OK, and he had a "religious experience" and uses that to convince us a hole was created by a missile where all actual authority said a plane crashed, but he has a spiritual vision of what happened?

There was no feeling or psychic indication of ANY thing other than a plane had struck there.


I walked the Pentagon been there, I did NOT get any feelings nor have ANY observations from ANY of the people I met there, that there was ANYTHING different than a PLANE went through, not a missile. I am reporting my direct observations being there.


What truth, I see only a hallucination being talked about that a MISSILE went thru the pentagon. I didn't get it when I walked the place and reviewed it. And I trust myself to know what I observed and felt. And what I heard from the people who are there and work there it was a plane and not a missile.


There is no point in the VIDEO to say anything there is a LIE. That is not the point. The point is a missile didn't go thru the pentagon a plane did.



The point is a missile didn't go thru the pentagon a plane did.
I'm with Dennis on that issue ... there is no way that the Pentagon was hit with a 757.

I certainly don't know what plane it was, nor do I know if it was a missile.
What the heck ??

You've been all over Stubblebine for pages now, objecting to him saying it was not a plane (and again, I did not hear "missile" in that last interview of Stubblebine, just "not plane" ... did I miss something?), and you've been there, talked to people there, walked there ... and to know that (and I quote) "a plane did" it, and to know that was the general sense of the people there and to agree with that sense.

Now you're begging off my questions ... saying you don't know if it was a plane or missile and immediately changing subjects?

I must have misread something ... sorry.

What do you think happened at the Pentagon, and do you think that Stubblebine is wrong to say "not a plane" (or as I "translated" his statement - "not a big plane")?

Do you honestly think that the initial hole in the Pentagon is big enough to account for impact from a 757?

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I compared that to Stubblebine saying it was a missile..
Did Stubblebine say "missile", or did he say "not plane" ?

[jiminii]

why don't we just say it was a mocked up plane on top of a Z28 camero with a 600 horse engine in it going at 100 mph so they would not do too much damage to the inside of the pentagon

jim

[araucaria]

The word 'epiphany' comes from the heavy Judaeo-Christian component of our culture and language. It has long since lost its religious denotation, although it continues to have religious overtones for those who want to see them. Bill gave one modern dictionary definition. Here is another: 'a sudden manifestation or perception of the essential nature or meaning of something'. That is all the general is referring to, unless one considers he is talking poetry. I think it is much more likely that he prefers the economy of one word rather than a dozen.

Regarding eye-witnesses, one thing that seems pretty clear is that the bona fide ones are not necessarily particularly reliable, and not all are bona fide. They may have seen a plane because according to one theory the missile was made to look like one. Or they may talk about a plane because that it the story being bandied around.

Bob what else don't you believe from Bert apart from the plane thing?

[ThePythonicCow]

Stubblebine said the hole wasn't big enough for a plane (unspoken, but rather implied in my view, "not big enough for a commercial jetliner", as presumably there exists some plane sufficiently small to have made that hole.)
Actually, when Stubblebine said "not a plane", it might not be that he meant, to be more precise, "not the 757 plane of the official story."

He might have meant exactly what he said ... no plane whatsoever. Perhaps he saw enough in the photo he looked at to see, for example, that the explosion was outward, not inward, and hence not the result of anything at all (plane, drone or missile) flying into the Pentagon.

He didn't spell these details out, so this becomes conjecture on our part (and certainly therefore not a grounds for firm accusations.)

[Bob]

ER, OK, and he had a "religious experience" and uses that to convince us a hole was created by a missile where all actual authority said a plane crashed, but he has a spiritual vision of what happened?

There was no feeling or psychic indication of ANY thing other than a plane had struck there.


I walked the Pentagon been there, I did NOT get any feelings nor have ANY observations from ANY of the people I met there, that there was ANYTHING different than a PLANE went through, not a missile. I am reporting my direct observations being there.


What truth, I see only a hallucination being talked about that a MISSILE went thru the pentagon. I didn't get it when I walked the place and reviewed it. And I trust myself to know what I observed and felt. And what I heard from the people who are there and work there it was a plane and not a missile.


There is no point in the VIDEO to say anything there is a LIE. That is not the point. The point is a missile didn't go thru the pentagon a plane did.



The point is a missile didn't go thru the pentagon a plane did.
I'm with Dennis on that issue ... there is no way that the Pentagon was hit with a 757.

I certainly don't know what plane it was, nor do I know if it was a missile.
What the heck ??

You've been all over Stubblebine for pages now, objecting to him saying it was not a plane (and again, I did not hear "missile" in that last interview of Stubblebine, just "not plane" ... did I miss something?), and you've been there, talked to people there, walked there ... and to know that (and I quote) "a plane did" it, and to know that was the general sense of the people there and to agree with that sense.

Now you're begging off my questions ... saying you don't know if it was a plane or missile and immediately changing subjects?

I must have misread something ... sorry.

What do you think happened at the Pentagon, and do you think that Stubblebine is wrong to say "not a plane" (or as I "translated" his statement - "not a big plane")?

Do you honestly think that the initial hole in the Pentagon is big enough to account for impact from a 757?

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I compared that to Stubblebine saying it was a missile..
Did Stubblebine say "missile", or did he say "not plane" ?

It is known that to state things out of context is how the media is able to spin anything and make anyone seem like anything they want. In Context one more time...

I went there, did not see a plane hit, I have no idea what type of plane hit nor if a missile hit. I met people who felt it was a plane who worked there. I have no reason to disbelieve them. I never asked them was it a 777 or 757 or space shuttle. I said I am reporting on what I got from being there talking to people and seeing the place, nothing there felt like there was anything other than a plane had gone through it.

Why do people want to add in the conspiracy stuff. I am just saying what my experience is, and what my opinion is? Why the out of context?

[jiminii]

ER, OK, and he had a "religious experience" and uses that to convince us a hole was created by a missile where all actual authority said a plane crashed, but he has a spiritual vision of what happened?

It is known that to state things out of context is how the media is able to spin anything and make anyone seem like anything they want. In Context one more time...

I went there, did not see a plane hit, I have no idea what type of plane hit nor if a missile hit. I met people who felt it was a plane who worked there. I have no reason to disbelieve them. I never asked them was it a 777 or 757 or space shuttle. I said I am reporting on what I got from being there talking to people and seeing the place, nothing there felt like there was anything other than a plane had gone through it.

Why do people want to add in the conspiracy stuff. I am just saying what my experience is, and what my opinion is? Why the out of context?

I only added the camero to lighten up the conversation

jim

[ThePythonicCow]

It is known that to state things out of context is how the media is able to spin anything and make anyone seem like anything they want. In Context one more time...

I went there, did not see a plane hit, I have no idea what type of plane hit nor if a missile hit. I met people who felt it was a plane who worked there. I have no reason to disbelieve them. I never asked them was it a 777 or 757 or space shuttle. I said I am reporting on what I got from being there talking to people and seeing the place, nothing there felt like there was anything other than a plane had gone through it.

Why do people want to add in the conspiracy stuff. I am just saying what my experience is, and what my opinion is? Why the out of context?

Ok - we're making a little bit of progress here.

You don't know what hit the Pentagon ... so for all you know, Stubblebine's observation, upon viewing some photo, that it was not the plane we've been told of, might well be a correct observation, right?

As for taking things out of context ... If I had quoted the entirety of each post that contained the snippets I did quote, the result would have been Too Long To Read, and probably even exceeded the allowed size for a post on this forum.

The context for each snippet I quoted is readily available to you and any reader ... just click on the "here" in the leadin "Posted by Bobd (here) " above each quote. I am not running some psyops trying to distort your words ... I am responding in the style recommended on this forum, with relevant snippets so active readers of the thread can quickly surmise the context in which I respond, and with the "here" link, so that casual readers can go back and find the full context at their leisure.

You really have, as best as I can read, been on Stubblebine's case for his "not a plane" comment (once again ... did he say "missile" ... not that I noticed). This implies to me that you really think it was a plane (otherwise what's the problem?) So when I quote several places in which you really do seem to say you think it was a plane ... now you get on my case for "out of context" quoting ... and now you deny any knowledge or conclusions of what hit the Pentagon ? I am incredulous.

By the way, could you kindly show me which of my quoted snippets were misleadingly spun by context deprivation?

[Dennis Leahy]

You ducked the question again...and now you're stating that a jumbo jet hit the Pentagon! I don't know who you are, but I call bullsh!t. No researcher worth their weight in goat dung says the Pentagon was hit with a 757. Sheesh. You totally discredited yourself with that.

You just know Stubblebine's testimony is a psyop - you just know it. Only, when asked for a shred of evidence, you tapdance.

Yes, the thread took a strong turn. It started out about Stubblebine, and turned into a psyop.

Dennis (minutes away from starting a sabbatical)

I don't believe Stubblebine. I said I met him in 92 and I have seen nothing that his epiphany is any different than any hallucination may be. I was there at the pentagon and walked the place and got feedback, and nobody there feels it was anything other than what was reported. I didn't see a big plane go thru.

WHO DENNIS told you I said that, there is nothing in any of these posts saying the i BOBD said that a 757 went through, YOU dubbed in that - and that is my example of how a PSYOP works. YOU dubbed in missing data. AND you attributted it to ME for pointing out to YOU to look about. YOU DID look about and since I am IN your FACE by talking on this thread OBVIOUSLY it was me that said such when I did not.. That is HOW a psyop works.. You never do know what is happening and you absolutely HAVE to take a break and get out of dodge. The mind can't take that is or was wrong and it dubs in, in the field it is called CONFABUATION - look it up.

You are starting to see what psyops does to you...


I do see your antagonism towards me for pointing out what my feelings are. I appreciate that you can say those things, when a person is hurting they MUST speak up and it is our job to give them a big hug and bring them closer. Does my nose hurt, yes it does. But I still love you.

I don't think I have ever challenged you but have in-fact commended you for your brilliance and magnificence. I have read your posts on the forum now and again, and it's been such a wonderful fresh air experience.

...


...you must kick me in the teeth infront of the group. OK I have picked up my teeth and put them back in and found the fish and put it in the refrigerator so I can cook it when we in Colorado run out of food from the floods.

... I have not found enjoyment in having had my soul ripped out and tossed about like yesterdays news.

I hope you feel better punching me in the nose. I feel better giving you a hug.
This is extremely disingenuous. Trollish, really. You are playing the victim in front of a rather sophisticated audience. I don't think it will play well.

I started a thread to show Stubblebine's latest interview, and you took over, with more than two dozen posts assassinating the character of this man. Three different posters asked you one simple request: point out the psyop in the video. But, there is no psyop in the video, so you approach it the only way left: more character assassination. You lavished praise ("brilliant!") on anyone that seemed to agree with you, or that even tried to state something about psyops. Those who disagree with your assessment got a different treatment: mocking and disingenuous sideshows (surprisingly, even mocking Bill calling him "Billy" and giving him a big wet kiss.)

You are neither my friend or my enemy when I am conversing in a thread on a forum, you are a thread participant. It makes no difference if you have read any of my other posts or if I have read yours. My reactions have been to your systematic dismantling of this thread, the vehemence with which you have pursued the task of discrediting Stubblebine, and your unwillingness or inability to prove your assertions that the video is a psyop. It doesn't matter if you feel that everything about the man is a psyop - that is an opinion and you expressed it. That could have been done in one post, but you added 30 more to make sure your viewpoint remained dominant. Bill and I even told you we were willing to admit we could be being fooled - and asked you to show us. You didn't. You couldn't.



I don't believe Stubblebine. I said I met him in 92 and I have seen nothing that his epiphany is any different than any hallucination may be. I was there at the pentagon and walked the place and got feedback, and nobody there feels it was anything other than what was reported. It was reported to be a Boeing 757 - a jumbo jet. So your backpedaling with "there is nothing in any of these posts saying the i BOBD said that a 757 went through" sort of clashes with the fact that you said "nobody there" (and that includes YOU because you said you were there, you "walked the place and reviewed it") "feels it was anything other than what was reported" [a Boeing 757 jumbo jet.]



...What truth, I see only a hallucination being talked about that a MISSILE went thru the pentagon. I didn't get it when I walked the place and reviewed it. And I trust myself to know what I observed and felt. And what I heard from the people who are there and work there it was a plane and not a missile.

Maybe, after you've had a chance to think about it, you'd like a Mulligan on this one? Maybe, since you "walked the place and reviewed it", you have a different plane in mind? One that was not a 757? So, what hit the Pentagon? Ace pilot Hani Hanjour and his famous 500mph+ corkscrew turn and his physics-defying flying just above ground, fortuitously taking out the paper trail searching for the missing $2.3 trillion dollars? Or something with a bit shorter wingspan? (This is rhetorical - I'm not looking for you to answer it, but I do expect you to admit that your bold red letter attempted "gotcha!" and subsequent explanation was disingenuous.)

You, Bobd, made a bold statement, veering this thread away from allowing people to hear Stubblebine's latest interview, and steering into an indictment of Stubblebine as a psyop agent in this video. You are so convinced that Stubblebine is only capable of psyop, that you declared this a psyop. Unfortunately for you, all you have for evidence is a smelly gym bag full of innuendo and guilt-by-association. Psyops are quite real, worthy of a thread or two, and could be interesting to discuss. But, since you have been "callled out" by three separate people to show how this video is a psyop - and failed - maybe it's time to allow the thread to be about a Major General declaring that 9/11 was an inside job, and the powerful implications that has towards awakening a set of people who would never have been awakened otherwise - rather than continuing the tap-dance-a-thon.

I don't expect even this powerful testimony to bring a just resolution to the 9/11 events and ensuing million plus people murdered in its wake - because 9/11 activists don't have a prayer as long as the perpetrators also control the prosecutorial roles and the justice department. But maybe, just maybe, it will awaken a few hundred thousand new people, and we'll be a little bit closer to the tipping point of a non-violent takeover of the corrupt government.

Dennis

[Bob]

The word 'epiphany' comes from the heavy Judaeo-Christian component of our culture and language. It has long since lost its religious denotation, although it continues to have religious overtones for those who want to see them. Bill gave one modern dictionary definition. Here is another: 'a sudden manifestation or perception of the essential nature or meaning of something'. That is all the general is referring to, unless one considers he is talking poetry. I think it is much more likely that he prefers the economy of one word rather than a dozen.

Regarding eye-witnesses, one thing that seems pretty clear is that the bona fide ones are not necessarily particularly reliable, and not all are bona fide. They may have seen a plane because according to one theory the missile was made to look like one. Or they may talk about a plane because that it the story being bandied around.

Bob what else don't you believe from Bert apart from the plane thing?

Howdy again araucaria - my eyes are kinda blurry now, I have been trying to keep up with the damage and prayer thread on the Emergency in Colorado which I stated to try to ask for people to please send us all prayers here as now about 3 million people are affected by the damage. I wrote to Paul to say I am having a bit bleary eyes and I will try one more time to state. I was there, I didn't go there to find a conspiracy. It just happened that it was I had the opportunity to see it feel it for myself. I never found anyone there who felt it was a missile. People felt it was a plane. I reported what I was given as information from people's feelings.

I met Stubblebine when he was in Colorado in the early 90's I believe was the date window. I will have to look up exactly when he was around if that is important to anyone. My feeling from having met him and his key player and associate and a person who worked for him under his official capacity was Mr. Alexander. When meeting the people they are loveable was my experience. I have studied the psyops materials and to me it is simply incredulous that one who was such a patriot would turn against one's peers and say they lie. I find it incredulous and I find that for a person to be able to do that with impunity from one's peers to me irks of conspiracy and that that is a technique used in psyops to create a point that can be leveraged. Is it to infiltrate, my belief is that is highly likely. That I have hear in one of the posts I believe Bill had said he truly believes Stubblebine is sincere. To me that worries me that it isn't sincerity, but it is a continuation of psyops which is conduced in the intel groups - to gather information, and to change viewpoints to allow for a desired spin. DO I know what that spin is, absolutely not, I can only say what I feel as some others have reported what they feel. I asked, said PLEASE show me that the leopard has changed its spots. I am hopeful that such has happened but I don't just believe it. I have see enough of psyops and met enough psyops people to know the signs. I tried to point out some of the signs and referred people to go to the websites that define what psyops is how it is done and why.. It is not useful to reiterate all the details, but to try to find the correct connecting dots to help people get to the core points. I can't say I know how to explain it all, but I can try my best to state my opinion. And my worry is after hearing Alexander say his good friend is Stubblebine and folks expressing their worries over Alexander to me it is connect the dots. I mentioned I know Jim Woolsey. Jim is actively involved in ALTERNATIVE GREEN ENERGY movement based out of Washington DC.. The alternative energy community is about coming up with ways to remove destruction of the environment and the air. That is how I know Jim. What people dub in and I watched Dennis's slam to me for knowing Jim is that now I am a spook and my feelings and observations are suspect - that is the dub-in assumption. SO I hope that adds in what else do I believe from Bert apart from the plane thing. I said Bert and Alexander good buddies based on what Alexander said , and that people have said Bill especially, Alexander is not kewel (paraphrasing).. Bill was the one Paul in his post that says this "I think this may be the nub of the discussion. When General Bert describes his epiphany gazing at that (very small!) hole in the side of the Pentagon," there is the hole a small hole, and dub-in then fills in it must be a missile then, not a big plane like a 757 as conspiracy buffs have said it is. One more time, I said I never saw a plane, never saw a missile.. People said plane, I said I got that from people and have no reason to doubt them. Why dub-in assumptions trying to say I have a feeling it was a 757 - I just don't get it why the need to find a whistleblower person say it is not what the actual people there said they saw.

[Bob]

I asked Dennis for people to look at background and you wanted it appears for people to see that TRUTH you did say truth, and you don't know iit is truth, but you say it is truth. Neither you nor I were there when the thing hit. Stubblebine wants us to be convinced it was something other than the official statement.

If people said 757 that is what they said, I never said it. You want me to be a troll you are saying? I feel for you for your hurt and what to me seems to be you need someone to help you understand that a person who says the officials are wrong is part of a conspiracy correct? I don't get why you are unhappy that people have opened up and expressed their feelings. Does it matter that I asked Bill to please get a personal interview and bring that interview to the group?

I don't get you Dennis, but maybe I need to take some more time and understand better where you are coming from. If I missed your intent I am sorry I missed your intent. Good luck with your endeavors. Blessings.

[jiminii]

Let's help bobd out with his PTP, (present time problem). we start handling what's happening in colorado. Bobd needs to go there and work it. Too much on this thread over what words another said. I think it is what we call an OVER RUN ... you just run stuff until the entire message is lost completely.

Who Needs That?

jim

[araucaria]

Let's help bobd out with his PTP, (present time problem). we start handling what's happening in colorado. Bobd needs to go there and work it. Too much on this thread over what words another said. I think it is what we call an OVER RUN ... you just run stuff until the entire message is lost completely.

Who Needs That?

jim
I think Bob has stated his position clearly enough a number of times now, and if he feels he is more needed elsewhere, I agree he should be doing that. For that he would need to accept that there are a few people he has not convinced and is not going to convince without coming up with some further info.

@Paul, in the 15-minute interview, Stubblebine does say that he saw a turbine that did not look like it came off a plane but did look like it came off a missile.

[Bob]

[QUOTE=Bobd;730854]
Ok - we're making a little bit of progress here.

You don't know what hit the Pentagon ... so for all you know, Stubblebine's observation, upon viewing some photo, that it was not the plane we've been told of, might well be a correct observation, right? Exactly, I was reporting on what I saw after the fact and heard that people there did not see a missile.

I said and this is my opinion which I am entitle to that I don't feel that someone who was in psyops is going to change. That is my feeling that is my belief.

You ask, in the btw, what out of context, the whole quote series you made saying people if you want the rest of the data go to the thread forces people to see only what you want them to see. I don't believe you are running a psyops but to use techniques that are used means people dont get the whole story and that is techniques that psops do use. That is the insidiousness of psyops. Its a no win if one is caught in the middle of it and I think I mentioned somewhere I feel it is important for people to have truth. My feeling is intel/psyops is not about truth and I don't get i that people will change. I don't get either why he would risk treason by contradicting the official statements. I don't see why the issue is I should blindly trust what is against my gut feelings and personal meetings. Thats about it Paul.

[Bob]

Let's help bobd out with his PTP, (present time problem). we start handling what's happening in colorado. Bobd needs to go there and work it. Too much on this thread over what words another said. I think it is what we call an OVER RUN ... you just run stuff until the entire message is lost completely.

Who Needs That?

jim
I think Bob has stated his position clearly enough a number of times now, and if he feels he is more needed elsewhere, I agree he should be doing that. For that he would need to accept that there are a few people he has not convinced and is not going to convince without coming up with some further info.

@Paul, in the 15-minute interview, Stubblebine does say that he saw a turbine that did not look like it came off a plane but did look like it came off a missile.

Thanks araucaria - I am not really trying to convince anyone all I did was state - people want to read in what they want.. That is the beauty about passion and compassion.. I am not defending anyone other than saying I believe the people that I met on site, and my feelings are who I met they had no reason to tell me something different to try to make me feel otherwise. The ones that i had met during phone call and in person I stated what my opinion was and what I felt. That's all it is there is nothing more in my expresions of what I feel and what I saw and who I talked with. Let's get an interview with the man. Why isn't that being talked about? hugs, and g'day.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Do you honestly think that the initial hole in the Pentagon is big enough to account for impact from a 757?

This question was not directed to me but please allow me...........

Not to be snarky, but, that impact hole is not even big enough for a midget with a boner to walk through sideways, , I am still listening to the interview and have seen some other interviews with Stubblebine and could not tell you if the man is for real, he has been a general that's all I know, all else is conjecture and hopefully lucky and correct guesswork.

But hey, I just returned from Spain from a cheap all inclusive stay in some disgusting tourist trap and there I saw a cute small plastic pig with white wings fly powered by 2 AA batteries, and they got sold by the dozen so right about now they could convince me of anything, btw it was making left turns and flew in circles, Flying Nascar Pigs, that's where we are at now, can we sink any deeper. Perhaps that is what flew into the Pentagon........nah, it was a missile.

2m572X2VyX0

[Atlas]

So, was it a plane or a missile ?

http://www.coldwar.org/pictures/photo_gallery/10.jpg

Below is Northrop SM-62 Snark intercontinental cruise missile :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Snark.jpg/545px-Snark.jpg

[ulli]

Here are some random thoughts after reading the last pages:

I still see Bob's point about not trusting Bert, given what he knows.
There is something strange about the timing of his "epiphany" (or realization...whatever)...
which in my view came a few years too late. I'm certain he knew all along.

I am with Dennis (and others here) about the Pentagon having been hit by a missile.
Reenforced walls of the building penetrated, lack of debris, witness reports about approach...north-versus south...


Anyway, Bob says that Pentagon staff said it was a plane and therefore believed the official version. This does not make them right, necessarily...I would say too much confusion, they could not see the forest for the trees.
If anything, "having been there" in a case like this makes it even harder for them to be objective.
One needs to study the photographs, the missile theory, the plane theory,
the whole picture, before one can get a clearer idea.
My main question was where were all the black boxes.
All my life I have been hearing about the frantic search for the supposedly indestructible Black Box,
which was always found, and on it the recorded conversations of the cockpit crew..
But none of that in this case.

I'm convinced that an insider like Bert would have known the truth all along...(ok, that is an assumption,
and a hunch), but this is why I find his coming forward so late in the day a bit suspect, and that is why I made my earlier comment.

The hole in the wall, which did not collapse immediately...
was enough evidence to convince me...also the open pages of a telephone directory which weren't even singed, despite the heat.

[araucaria]

Here are some random thoughts after reading the last pages:

I still see Bob's point about not trusting Bert, given what he knows.
There is something strange about the timing of his "epiphany" (or realization...whatever)...
which in my view came a few years too late. I'm certain he knew all along.

(snip)
All my life I have been hearing about the frantic search for the supposedly indestructible Black Box,
which was always found, and on it the recorded conversations of the cockpit crew..
But none of that in this case.

I'm convinced that an insider like Bert would have known the truth all along...(ok, that is an assumption,
and a hunch), but this is why I find his coming forward so late in the day a bit suspect, and that is why I made my earlier comment.

The hole in the wall, which did not collapse immediately...
was enough evidence to convince me...also the open pages of a telephone directory which weren't even singed, despite the heat.
Black boxes (which are never black) are not indestructible the way passports and telephone directories can be. Either there were no planes or the boxes were 'dustified' to use Judy Wood's terminology. Or again, they were found, and since no crime scene protocol was ever applied, their indestructibility was found wanting in a secret location.

It may well be that Stubblebine knew all along, but that doesn't make these interviews psyops and it doesn't prevent them from advancing public disclosure. If good disinfo is about 85% correct info, then perhaps top quality disinfo comes closer to 100%, with the message invalidated entirely by the messenger.

[ulli]

Here are some random thoughts after reading the last pages:

I still see Bob's point about not trusting Bert, given what he knows.
There is something strange about the timing of his "epiphany" (or realization...whatever)...
which in my view came a few years too late. I'm certain he knew all along.

(snip)
All my life I have been hearing about the frantic search for the supposedly indestructible Black Box,
which was always found, and on it the recorded conversations of the cockpit crew..
But none of that in this case.

I'm convinced that an insider like Bert would have known the truth all along...(ok, that is an assumption,
and a hunch), but this is why I find his coming forward so late in the day a bit suspect, and that is why I made my earlier comment.

The hole in the wall, which did not collapse immediately...
was enough evidence to convince me...also the open pages of a telephone directory which weren't even singed, despite the heat.
Black boxes (which are never black) are not indestructible the way passports and telephone directories can be. Either there were no planes or the boxes were 'dustified' to use Judy Wood's terminology. Or again, they were found, and since no crime scene protocol was ever applied, their indestructibility was found wanting in a secret location.

It may well be that Stubblebine knew all along, but that doesn't make these interviews psyops and it doesn't prevent them from advancing public disclosure. If good disinfo is about 85% correct info, then perhaps top quality disinfo comes closer to 100%, with the message invalidated entirely by the messenger.

I'm adding one more thought to yours here, araucaria, for your perusal.
If a tipping point has been reached and the public is waking up at the rate we all had hoped they would ten years ago,
then we need to become even more alert about psy-ops.
I recall reading here (was it Charles who said it?) that the idea behind a controlled or limited nuclear exchange was to create total chaos, which would then allow the PTB to implement their take-over of the rest of the globe.
Well, since the war plans seem to have gone wrong, maybe using a top goat starer to tell the world that the conspiracy people were right all along, can have a similar effect on the masses. Especially since RT has recently announced that 911 was an inside job, we can now look forward to all those in the know to start throwing their info and disinfo at each other like merengue pies.
But I might be getting ahead of myself here.
Maybe I ought to stop for a moment and just be grateful that we now have such an interview, never mind it came late. It's just that I have lost all trust of anyone who has spent an entire lifetime doing military service. Yes, people change, but when it is someone like Bertie, given his record, then I need to think twice about their "epiphany" being for real.

[ruthy]

I used to live in nyc...in 2008 I answered an advertisement to be a production assistant. It turns out the gig was for a video documenting the rebuilding of the world trade towers. The documentary was filmed and directed by a man who works for public relations directly under Silverstein. At the time I found it very ironic that I got this gig, especially with my own suspicions about the way the buildings collapsed. So they were filming in that year, 2008, the "anniversary" of 9/11 with Silverstein, the mayor, and other political figures in World Trade #7 I believe. I am trying to remember, but the memorial was not built yet, the hole was still in the ground and there were multiple engineers on the top floor of the building with blue prints everywhere, it was a mess, all arguing how to rebuild. Making jokes that they were just building something that was a giant bullseye and would most likely get knocked down again. But the real point I want to make, is at the gala that evening in Building 7 you had all the froo froo's there kissing butt, and the director was walking me around pointing the people out to me. And he asked me what I thought about what happened that day on 9/11. I being me, said the truth, which maybe i should of edited, but i said I thought it was a demolition. He got quiet...then he said, I can tell you first hand that Silverstein put explosives in all of the buildings...but you didn't hear that from me. He never spoke of it again, after the gig was finished of filming the gala and the anniversary press interviews on the actual date seeing silverstein..seeing the president of Maybach handing out keys to their luxury cars like it was nothing, seeing my old bosses from Citigroup there when I used to work on their trading and investing floor...it was just all about money and power at that "anniversary" of a tragic occurence. I felt disgusted. And even more so, that this man, who works for Silverstein, knew and told me bluntly that he had purposefully taken those buildings down, made me want to curl up into a ball and cry. I told some people about this, most were shocked..some didn't believe me. I don't care, I was there, I have the pictures of the event, I have the proof that I worked for this man even for a short span of time. And I heard him say to me those words.

[Midnight Rambler]

Well, since the war plans seem to have gone wrong, maybe using a top goat starer to tell the world that the conspiracy people were right all along, can have a similar effect on the masses. Especially since RT has recently announced that 911 was an inside job, we can now look forward to all those in the know to start throwing their info and disinfo at each other like merengue pies.

Here some merengue pies to choose from, including General Albert Stubblebine's...
9/11 Commission Report Questioned by Senior Military, Intelligence, and Government Officials (http://www.wanttoknow.info/officialsquestion911commissionreport)

9/11 Commission Report Questioned by Over 100 Professors (http://www.wanttoknow.info/070618professorsquestion911)

9/11 Statement Signed by 100 Prominent Americans (http://www.wanttoknow.info/911statement)
(Scroll down to 'Signatories')

Pilots and Aviation Professionals Question 9/11 (http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html)

Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth (http://www.ae911truth.org/en/about-us.html)

I am not stating that these people are not genuine in their attempt in uncovering the truth. But I stumbled upon these names after reading your post Ulli and I had to post it.

[ulli]

Well, since the war plans seem to have gone wrong, maybe using a top goat starer to tell the world that the conspiracy people were right all along, can have a similar effect on the masses. Especially since RT has recently announced that 911 was an inside job, we can now look forward to all those in the know to start throwing their info and disinfo at each other like merengue pies.

Here some merengue pies to choose from, including General Albert Stubblebine's...
9/11 Commission Report Questioned by Senior Military, Intelligence, and Government Officials (http://www.wanttoknow.info/officialsquestion911commissionreport)

9/11 Commission Report Questioned by Over 100 Professors (http://www.wanttoknow.info/070618professorsquestion911)

9/11 Statement Signed by 100 Prominent Americans (http://www.wanttoknow.info/911statement)
(Scroll down to 'Signatories')

Pilots and Aviation Professionals Question 9/11 (http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html)

Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth (http://www.ae911truth.org/en/about-us.html)

I am not stating that these people are not genuine in their attempt in uncovering the truth. But I stumbled upon these names after reading your post Ulli and I had to post it.

In 1998 I was on a conspiracy site where someone claimed that George W. Bush had been selected to become the next president, and that nothing was going to stop it happening. So I thought AhA! I KNEW it! Papa bush wants to finish what he started in Iraq. Because it was obvious to me that they were going to take out Saddam. And then that fateful election happened, voting machines had been introduced, programmed to make every twentieth vote for Gore and flip it to Bush..and still it was a close call, boiling down to one single vote on the Supreme Court. And then the cabinet was announced...all the old oil people and General Colin Powell...it was just so obvious. All that was needed was a false flag event to get Congress to give the green light.

So then came 911, and I bought the official CNN version for a max of five minutes, and am even embarrassed that it took me that long to figure out what had happened.

And I have a hard time to this day with anyone who took years before they found out about the truth behind 911, but I'm learning to forgive them. They are busy working, while I have all the time in the world, alone at home, to investigate such matters. So then I was wondering how long would it take for the tipping point, when so many had figured it out that they PTB were forced to come clean, and how would they go about it when it happened, and what other tricks would they then have up their sleeve. And that moment has now come, in my view. So why am I not rejoicing?

[Ultima Thule]

Now I finally had the time to listen the second interview (post#17).

Whether it makes me a dupe or psyopped, at this point I trust my guts. The whole second interview is WELL worth the watch, but look at Stubblebine at this particular spot(from 13:40 on)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Jc1ql4TfCZw#t=821

Look at his eyes. In this case I trust my guts, this man is IMHO at this point of time genuine, passionate and well worth listening to and definitely worth an interview by Bill(if that is in any way possible). Definitely worth me telling I trust the man in these interviews to be genuinely trying to bring truth out. I´ll not second guess him.

UT

[araucaria]

I'm adding one more thought to yours here, araucaria, for your perusal.
If a tipping point has been reached and the public is waking up at the rate we all had hoped they would ten years ago,
then we need to become even more alert about psy-ops.
I recall reading here (was it Charles who said it?) that the idea behind a controlled or limited nuclear exchange was to create total chaos, which would then allow the PTB to implement their take-over of the rest of the globe.
Well, since the war plans seem to have gone wrong, maybe using a top goat starer to tell the world that the conspiracy people were right all along, can have a similar effect on the masses. Especially since RT has recently announced that 911 was an inside job, we can now look forward to all those in the know to start throwing their info and disinfo at each other like merengue pies.
But I might be getting ahead of myself here.
Maybe I ought to stop for a moment and just be grateful that we now have such an interview, never mind it came late. It's just that I have lost all trust of anyone who has spent an entire lifetime doing military service. Yes, people change, but when it is someone like Bertie, given his record, then I need to think twice about their "epiphany" being for real.
General Stubblebine has been on Avalon talking about this for over 3 years. Observer posted this video in July 2010.

As for Major General Stubblebine's credibility, one might want to watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daNr_TrBw6E
but, that's completely off-topic and the subject of another issue....

It was reposted by daledo in February 2011 http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?5389-A-documentary-more-powerful-than-Loose-Change-...-blows-the-lid-off-the-Inside-Job-&p=149074&viewfull=1#post149074

And again by cidersomerset in September of that year, and probably more times since then. We can extrapolate the exposure this man has got more generally in the alternative media. So if this testimony was going to have the effect of a nuclear bomb, it ought to have done so already. And in any case, the timing is all off with respect to the latest failed attempt to start WW3.

Here is another video on the Pentagon attack, which features Stubblebine among others.

beIbbnt9LHk


(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beIbbnt9LHk)

[Delight]

if there is a 3D, concrete task that must be accomplished in order for this new era to occur, it will be the citizens of the only superpower country taking the helm away from the government that controls the largest and deadliest military in world history. That is the key. Citizens actually controlling the government.

Dennis,
You struck a chord with me. I want to be part of a group, have intimacy, feel I am making a difference, feel wholesome and helpful and most of all... HOME with my people.

But I have also been wondering all this time how to bridge an ongoing sense that something is wrong. It keeps me hyper vigilant. Is this stir of mental activity, David Icke's "problem, reaction, solution" the #1 Psyops that can spin a million various patterns all taking us back to square Zero on the playing field?

How can all of you help me with the desire to take back with you (in country or equivalent) a capacity to be in a LIVING democracy (for want of a better word here...thinking about the basic constitution, bill of rights etc of USA that is respected) without causing more "war".

So far all I can feel in my hands are a bunch of twisting snakes. Looking at this overwhelm of 21st century information animal with a million tails I cannot grasp for long, I wonder... it must be MY MIND!

I have seen the videos and I want to ask Bob and Bill and all.....are you able to address "me" and the way I see my mind. Is it anything "like you"

1. I was an early adopter for conspiracy and the 9/11 event knocked me off my feet. I was distressed to the MAX by not understanding. This will be a given for most of us... It operated on all segments as the people tried to make sense. The rape was universal. PTSD followed.

What clued me as I watched that day was not the planes, the towers etc. it was that GB stayed in the classroom and the look on his face and the sense "He knew about this already. They knew!" But I didn't know what that meant.

Wondering, trying to figure this most HUGE story and all the pieces and then WAR! I watched the first Gulf War and I knew then that Bin Laden was connected to the Bushes and the CIA. The "facts" piled up without any sense. Unresolved ongoing trauma.

The years continue....
IF I am like others in a crowd of Americans still in trauma....wondering...could it be at this late date someone in authority might help ME "put this behind me?" by acknowledging something heartfelt and then

I will "put this behind me"
9/11 becomes like a ballad? "12 years ago on a bright cool day someone was shot at the town hall play"...

2. Until Judy Wood showed the anomalous pictures of cars etc., when I found out about the Non reports of a hurricane that day and the almost right angle change in course, I would have only believed it was a "plane or a missile" that was the mechanism.

When I found out that it could be directed energy, I was actually enthusiastic like some others here that we could use a similar technology for "beneficial purpose"
But what if I could not accept that the technology is real? That "they" could use it? I'd want to be reassured of missiles and controlled demolition, RIGHT?

3. I sank into being "knowledgeable about Nuthhin" after all the study. There are so many ways to get lost in a labyrinth of "truth details".

I have been knowledgeable that the my experience is directed by Psyops since I was young. Has that enabled me to do anything really.
In THIS case of whistle blowers and truth:
BE HONEST! What have you DONE externally that will show me how to use the information? Help me please really take back the guidance, direction and peaceful usherence in of a new earth? But what if that is just IMPOSSIBLE?

What if the whole churning is like when you put milk with cream into a container to separate the butter. What if we are always sent back to the churn to get our butter harvested?
I believe the basic question for me is "mastery" and is that the reason for the game RISING and FALLING and CHURNING...get us all always all involved with "something out there". The cycle exhausts to be flung up on trust and then thrust down.

It makes me feel like a little girl, I feel like I need a "SHINY KNIGHT" "rescuer".
That will never happen because that is just the exit sign to the devil.
What that means to me....
If this is deep where epiphanies and anything coming in is FELT, this is personal and as the Old saying goes...The Evolution will not be on TV. IF we succeed in taking back our inner world, what will happen THEN?

I appreciate the opportunity to state what is deeply felt. Maggie

[Cidersomerset]

Thanks Dennis just finished interview and it gives a more human side to 'Gen Bert' and it
proves you are never to 'young' to open your eyes LOL. I have not read the other posts as I have
been busy on other threads and catching up on interviews.

I have posted Gen Stubblebine on several threads and as he said is probably one of the
highest ranking officers to comment against the establishment view on the Pentagon
attack. I find him a credible witness now he has shed the blinkers and hope he may
comment more to the right interviewer. As he said he has been compromised
in the general media, possibly by design to keep the 'old war horse' safely in his
retirement stable. But this 'Horse' may have one last 'charge' in him.

cheers Steve....

[ulli]

General Stubblebine has been on Avalon talking about this for over 3 years.

Thanks for straightening this out. How sloppy of me. I missed all those others, and thought this interview was meant to be the big scoop.

[ruthy]

I think a lot of these confessions from these people are also a way of saying, pardon my french, but "ef it!" I mean the general looks like he's about ankle deep in the grave. I'm sure he was told that if he disclosed any information he would be killed. Now he's thinking, well I don't want to die with what I know, so I will divulge my dark secrets, cleanse my "soul", and try to give something back.

I wish it would not happen like this, that we have to wait until these insiders are about to croak to know the real truth first hand, but when you have a secret gov't with capabilities of ruining your life and those of the people you love, most of them tend to bite their tongue.

I wish we had more Snowdens though.

[Carmody]

Well, since the war plans seem to have gone wrong, maybe using a top goat starer to tell the world that the conspiracy people were right all along, can have a similar effect on the masses. Especially since RT has recently announced that 911 was an inside job, we can now look forward to all those in the know to start throwing their info and disinfo at each other like merengue pies.

Here some merengue pies to choose from, including General Albert Stubblebine's...
9/11 Commission Report Questioned by Senior Military, Intelligence, and Government Officials (http://www.wanttoknow.info/officialsquestion911commissionreport)

9/11 Commission Report Questioned by Over 100 Professors (http://www.wanttoknow.info/070618professorsquestion911)

9/11 Statement Signed by 100 Prominent Americans (http://www.wanttoknow.info/911statement)
(Scroll down to 'Signatories')

Pilots and Aviation Professionals Question 9/11 (http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html)

Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth (http://www.ae911truth.org/en/about-us.html)

I am not stating that these people are not genuine in their attempt in uncovering the truth. But I stumbled upon these names after reading your post Ulli and I had to post it.

In 1998 I was on a conspiracy site where someone claimed that George W. Bush had been selected to become the next president, and that nothing was going to stop it happening. So I thought AhA! I KNEW it! Papa bush wants to finish what he started in Iraq. Because it was obvious to me that they were going to take out Saddam. And then that fateful election happened, voting machines had been introduced, programmed to make every twentieth vote for Gore and flip it to Bush..and still it was a close call, boiling down to one single vote on the Supreme Court. And then the cabinet was announced...all the old oil people and General Colin Powell...it was just so obvious. All that was needed was a false flag event to get Congress to give the green light.

So then came 911, and I bought the official CNN version for a max of five minutes, and am even embarrassed that it took me that long to figure out what had happened.

And I have a hard time to this day with anyone who took years before they found out about the truth behind 911, but I'm learning to forgive them. They are busy working, while I have all the time in the world, alone at home, to investigate such matters. So then I was wondering how long would it take for the tipping point, when so many had figured it out that they PTB were forced to come clean, and how would they go about it when it happened, and what other tricks would they then have up their sleeve. And that moment has now come, in my view. So why am I not rejoicing?

Probably due to things like this:

http://www.hark.com/clips/vkcjdwkwmd-old-tigers-sensing-the-end-are-at-their-most-fierce

The next line Connery speaks is: 'And they go down fighting'.

[onawah]

One thing no one else seems to be questioning that continues to bother me, and that is what Bobd said about the people working at the Pentagon who told him they thought it was a plane that hit the building ( a big one, according to the official story, which they were apparently in accordance with) .
Of all people in D.C. whose minds were most probably messed with after 911 and convinced they had better stick with the official story, I would imagine it would be the people who worked at the Pentagon.
And they probably were asked those questions so many times by so many people they no doubt got to the point before too long where they believed (or almost believed) what they were (probably) told to say, themselves...

So maybe I've missed something, but I have to wonder why it was that Bobd, who says he is so well versed in identifying psyops, doesn't seem to have taken into account the fact that those people he talked to might very well have been subjects of some kind of psyops which would have caused to them to take the course of least resistance, and say what their bosses wanted them to say...

This thread has taken many twists and turns, and I would have to spend more time reading it over again to track them all, which I am not likely to do.
But I do want to say that, though my viewpoint may have sounded cynical, with lyrics quoted from the famous Rolling Stones song, etc. I actually have a lot of faith in the ability of human beings to shake off their old, erroneous programming and belief systems and show us their "original face", as the Zen koans of old demand we do.
And I think it's possible that that IS what is happening to Gen. Bert.
BUT I ALSO think this whole scenario has been heavily influenced by psyops, and after all the sifting and processing of info we have done on Avalon, I'm kind of surprised that anyone here wouldn't, especially in the case of Gen. Bert!!

But this kind of weird blending of psyops and conspiracy theory is OK; it's an example of what George Green postulated in his Paradigm books was going to happen-- that in the end, all things will work together for the good.

For me, the final triumph is what Jimini cited, the "New Kids", who are coming in with genes advanced enough so that they can cut through all the b.s. without even thinking twice about it, or perhaps even just ignore it altogether.
When there are enough of those genetic upgrades in the world, then surely there will be no need for all this analyzing and speculating, and we will be able to just get on with life.
And won't that be a relief??

[ThePythonicCow]

And I have a hard time to this day with anyone who took years before they found out about the truth behind 911, but I'm learning to forgive them.
Thanks. It took me 7 or 8 years to get a clue ... I was busy building Linux kernels and driving around in a car with a bumper full of Bush stickers.

[ulli]

And I have a hard time to this day with anyone who took years before they found out about the truth behind 911, but I'm learning to forgive them.
Thanks. It took me 7 or 8 years to get a clue ... I was busy building Linux kernels and driving around in a car with a bumper full of Bush stickers.

I remember you saying. (Raised eyebrow)
I had to travel through time and find you and put your head back on straight.

[jiminii]

And I have a hard time to this day with anyone who took years before they found out about the truth behind 911, but I'm learning to forgive them.
Thanks. It took me 7 or 8 years to get a clue ... I was busy building Linux kernels and driving around in a car with a bumper full of Bush stickers.

according to "what is greatness" LRH says Don't forgive them that is saying they are right ... and is low tone.... he said just don't hate them because of it

jim

[ulli]

And I have a hard time to this day with anyone who took years before they found out about the truth behind 911, but I'm learning to forgive them.
Thanks. It took me 7 or 8 years to get a clue ... I was busy building Linux kernels and driving around in a car with a bumper full of Bush stickers.

according to "what is greatness" LRH says Don't forgive them that is saying they are right ... and is low tone.... he said just don't hate them because of it

jim

Ok then, I no longer hate Paul.

[4evrneo]

I am going to have to take a big breath to wade into this puddle... it may be deeper than I suspect.

First, does it matter whether Gen. Bert is a dupe or a toad? I mean, lets just thank him for whatever true message he wants to put out and move on.. there is a much more important movement these days and it is all about OUR consciousness. What do you know INSIDE you to be true. If it is it is... I can't tell anyone whethter the general is a good actor, a stooge or just an old man who wants to remember his glory. Perhaps he had his ephiphany and I would sing hallelujha with him. Little effect does this have on me.

Clearly he isn't an innocent and he clearly states there are things he can't talk about... and what he talks about is old news to those of us who have struggled into awareness when the first rays struck our minds.

What does have effect on me and mine? Isn't it a fact that PSY OP continues, the technology advances, the war mongers still sell their wares, the new agers were co opted and more than once... etc., etc., etc.

That we still feed the machine at almost every breath we take, I still drive a car with petrol and buy my steaks at the super market...

In listening to this video I took what was valuable.. and hey, maybe a General would wake up some other old man who wouldn't listen to this hippie chick. So he serves where he serves. And maybe it is just plainly evident that we have to sift through the chaff.. I do not hold THE Truth, Bobd doesn't either, nor Bill Ryan, nor Dennis, nor anyothers who posted... why argue over this man's current motivation?

If we understand how our minds were co-opted, if we understand what the human heart holds, if we can cherish all fellow beings in the Light of Truth.. .. if we can remember our own greatness, then we are doing what we came here to do.



"The hardest task one can have is to continue to love his fellows despite all reasons he should not.
And the true sign of sanity and greatness is to so continue.
For the one who can achieve this, there is abundant hope.
For those who cannot, there is only sorrow, hatred and despair. And these are not the things of which greatness—or sanity or happiness are made."



To that degree, true greatness depends on total wisdom. They act as they do because they are what they are—trapped beings, crushed beneath an intolerable burden. And if they have gone mad for it and command the devastation of whole nations in errors of explanation, still, one can understand why and can understand as well the extent of their madness. Why should one change and begin to hate just because others have lost themselves and their own destinies are too cruel for them to face?

Well said Christine, and I feel the same way.

[onawah]

PS And thanks to Christine for her wonderful post. So true!

[onawah]

I wanted to post my remarks again from my post #57, since I made it in an "update" form, and some may have missed it.
It was one of the big connecting dots that have led me to my current view about how less noticeable psyops have been working their way into situations where they can disrupt and neutralize efforts by others to stop the madness, in this case, Codex Alimentarius.



update: I am reminded of a situation awhile back, when Dr. Laibow's (Gen. Bert's wife) Natural Solutions was busy going to international meetings on Codex Alimentarius and broadcasting all kinds of info about it, apparently attempting to inform people and get them to protest. I was still unsure about her and the General given their background, so I dug in a little deeper.
There was another organization, a less high profile but very sincere 501C3 (whose name I forget now) who I remember saying that they were attending the same meetings and that the Natural Solutions people were actually causing more problems than anything.
The 501C3 said that Natural Solutions (Gen. Bert and Dr. Laibow) were making a big show of protesting and hogging what limelight there was for the dissenters, but in actuality, what they were doing was making dissent ineffective and getting in the way of those who were sincerely there to protest.

[ThePythonicCow]

according to "what is greatness" LRH says Don't forgive them that is saying they are right ... and is low tone.... he said just don't hate them because of it
The same might apply to self ... I don't forgive my prior ignorance, nor do I not forgive it. It just was (and probably still is, just with different superficialities.) If I could sit down with my self of a few years ago, I hope we'd have a good chat and some chuckles over our divergent views on some matters.

[araucaria]

One thing no one else seems to be questioning that continues to bother me, and that is what Bobd said about the people working at the Pentagon who told him they thought it was a plane that hit the building ( a big one, according to the official story, which they were apparently in accordance with) .
Of all people in D.C. whose minds were most probably messed with after 911 and convinced they had better stick with the official story, I would imagine it would be the people who worked at the Pentagon.
And they probably were asked those questions so many times by so many people they no doubt got to the point before too long where they believed (or almost believed) what they were (probably) told to say, themselves...

So maybe I've missed something, but I have to wonder why it was that Bobd, who says he is so well versed in identifying psyops, doesn't seem to have taken into account the fact that those people he talked to might very well have been subjects of some kind of psyops which would have caused to them to take the course of least resistance, and say what their bosses wanted them to say...

They may have been because, according to one theory, the cruise missile was in American Airlines livery (for those who actually saw it), and accompanied by and/or launched by a 'highly modified E-4B Boeing 747, operated by the National Airborne Operations Center', which just cleared the building. In other words, there was a dummy plane possibly plus a real plane, and yet it wasn't a plane did the damage, but a missile. First impressions are often correct: not in this case.

Edit to add link:
http://defendingthetruth.com/conspiracy-theories/27808-update-cruise-missile-slammed-into-pentagon-911-a.html

[Chanlo23]

What a FABULOUS Thread! It really highlights issues that newbies like me need to be on the lookout for before they post any responses. What I have seen previously is that if you share real, first-hand experience and/or accurate methods to determine truth from falsehood or if you can provide solutions, you will be ‘tagged’ and monitored, and you may be ‘remediated’ at some point in the present/future because of it. Current Avalonians already know this. They already know that sharing useful information can put your head on the chopping block or expose your back. In the past, many of us who have been accused of trolling for covert groups, the military, and the CIA, NSA, MI6, Mossad, or Aman. Just because you are not that does not mean that someone else is (or is not that) either. In my opinion, it just pays to keep that in mind when posting. (I believe this is also mentioned in the Welcome message somewhere too.)

What started out as a simple video post (thanks Dennis!) that folks could watch and make a decision about -- has revealed that many folks on this forum know a LOT about psyops and methods for controlling and manipulating folks with media. The reality is that any posted video is suspect, and everyone has to make an informed choice of what they believe related to it, the people who made it, the reasons behind it, the effects of it, and the timing of its release – all are factors susceptible to manipulation.

The very question of whether or not a video/audio can be taken at face value, or whether or not it shares a truth or reveals a construct meant to deceive is an extremely valuable conversation. Such discussions can easily be pushed to de-evolve into personal attacks, and that is also a psyops trick meant to steal attention away from real ways to discern truth by focusing on popularity contests among those who voice their opinions. I am happy to see that the Avalonians posting on this thread are keeping it real!

[Bill Ryan]

-------

@ Chanlo23 immediately above:
(http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?63367-Gen.-Bert-Stubblebine--Gnostic-Media-Interview--Sept-13-2013&p=731117&viewfull=1#post731117)
Thank you for the plaudits to the forum! And a very warm welcome to you.

Yes, there are a lot of smart people here, intelligent, experienced and well-informed. Combined with passion and genuine caring, this can sometimes spark some most interesting discussions of the very highest quality.

A few people, although very well-meaning, arrive at the forum and think that they already know more then most people here. But usually they soon find that this is a mistaken premise. What works well discussing things here is to (a) be honest, (b) be specific, (c) differentiate between opinion, experience and conjecture, and (d) always be courteous and recognize that the person you're addressing may know more than you in certain areas.

It can be quite a personal development course, as well as the ultimate rolling seminar.

:)

[Cidersomerset]

I just had a quick scan of the thread, I do not usually comment on major threads
unless I have been involved from the start, which is why I do not get on a lot of
them. Its fine to give 'one liners' on some threads as an acknowledgment.
I find 'pithy' answers not so helpful though, but each to their own.

This thread is not one of those and seems to be intense and educational.
Apart from all the vids and analyst we have seen, there is one witness
that from Day one has spoken out to fact that she saw no sign of a
airliner and walked out of a hole in the wall......

What Really happened on 9/11? Come and hear 9/11 eyewitness/mother from Pentagon
5U5hOyZlrcY

Uploaded on 13 May 2011


April Gallop was at the Pentagon with her 2 months old baby,
when the 9/11 explosion at the pentagon blew her off her feet.
April walked out of the crater hole in the Pentagon injured, but
alive. Come and hear April's first hand testimony of what She
saw on 9/11. The testimony that the 9/11 commission and the
major/dominant news media have shamelessly kept from you
and the American People!

Freedom Law School
Speaker: April Gallop
Host: Peymon Mottahedeh

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Something mentioned towards the end of the above interview....

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1288/561150174_46cac37987.jpg

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/ar/t15994_0.htm

[Cidersomerset]

Typical I'm late for bed, just started watching this presentation which looks
interesting.I'll finish after work tomorrow.



Behind the Smoke Curtain (The 9/11 Fable of the Pentagon Attack) - Barbara Honegger

m-a4B4aNStQ

Published on 30 Jul 2013


Barbara Honegger presents her evidence that the
official story surrounding the 9/11 attack on the Pentagon is a lie.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is very good information on this current thread....


"September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor" - Full version (1/3)

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1GCeuSr3Mk

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?63152-September-11-The-New-Pearl-Harbor-Full-version

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also another current thread....

Another Nineteen: Investigating Legitimate 9/11 Suspects

new Sunday 15th September 2013 at 08:11 By David Icke

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKxhLpI_A2k

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?63381-Another-Nineteen-Investigating-Legitimate-9-11-Suspects

[ThePythonicCow]

Barbara Honegger presents her evidence that the
official story surrounding the 9/11 attack on the Pentagon is a lie.
Aha - Thank-you, Cidersomerset !

I knew I recalled viewing her presentation. Earlier today, I spent a half hour looking for it, but my memory was too vague to provide any hooks sufficient to track it down. It is an excellent analysis of what happened at the Pentagon.

(Honegger's presentation was previously posted on a couple of "compilation" threads on Avalon here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60288-Videos-From-Forbidden-Knowledge-and-More&p=713554&viewfull=1#post713554) and here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1383-The-Continuing-Search-For-The-Truth&p=714295&viewfull=1#post714295), with no response either time.)

[gripreaper]

Dennis,

You may have caught me in a rare moment of internal conflict, as I am generally quite clear as to what I see and feel, as my history at Avalon can attest to. So, as I soul search, allow me the opportunity to explore this whole thread and the dilemma it has stirred.

Initially, I was excited at the notion that a top military general would come forward and state that the hole in the pentagon could not have come from a 757 as the official story has stated. Stubblebine also stated he had been “duped” for so many years and has started to awaken post retirement. True actual whistleblowers that are willing to risk it all and come forward most definitely should be commended and revered, and supported. I find it quite appalling how Snowden, Manning, Hastings, Phil Schneider, Bill Cooper, and so many others have been murdered, tortured, slandered, imprisoned, marginalized and character assassinated.

In addition, to me, how the military evolves and awakens, is at the very core of how the old paradigm has the greatest capacity to shift, as our military is the elites global mercenary bully force around the world fostering imperialism against all the human souls on planet earth, for very selfish nefarious reasons for the aggrandizement of the 1% psychopathic inhuman controllers.

I want the military to come forward and stand with us empathic humans, and refuse to participate further in the accelerated demolition of this planet and its inhabitants. So, when someone has the courage to come forward and speak the truth, I get excited. I would hope that all military men would stand shoulder to shoulder and refuse to go to war, refuse to fire against their fellow citizens, and refuse to do the bidding of the elite any longer.

Yet, on further examination of Stubblebine’s background, I then found it highly unlikely that he was saying anything of import which would significantly alter or reach the 85% who are asleep, and that the 15% who are awake got nothing new from his declarations. So, you say that you have shared this video with several people, and are seeing changes in them as a result. I take this under advisement, and would love to see this video wake more empathic humans up. To me, the jury is still out on that.

I agree with you that the whole den of vipers in the DC snake pit need to be routed out. DC is like a vortex filled to the brim with the most corrupt inhuman psychopaths this planet has ever known. Stubblebine was in that vortex, linked to the highest office on intelligence gathering, and could be one of the top developers of the mind control agenda, and I’m not going to give him a free pass. I have to remain open to the possibility that I’m being duped and that the internal conflict I feel over this whole thread needs to be explored. I am doing that and will clear it up as soon as I can. Like I said, this is a rare event for me.

It’s unfortunate that your thread moved away from its original intent, since assassinating Stubblebine’s character was not your intent, but it at least bears a look. So do psyops. This thread, in my opinion, has the earmarks of a psyop, as in psychological operation, the capacity to create enough abstract distortions, distractions, counter arguments, innuendos, cognitive dissonance, confusion, and finally, divisiveness. I don’t want to participate in that. I want to get clear about what is really going on here.

So, while this thread has gone off the rails, I have been doing my due diligence on Bert Stubblebine, John Alexander, James Woolsey, Boone Pickens, Adam Trombley, Bob Dratch, and a host of others. I’ve got many of the dots connected and am finding a common thread, but there are still too many holes in where I’m going with this to bring it out.

[Bill Ryan]

Barbara Honegger presents her evidence that the
official story surrounding the 9/11 attack on the Pentagon is a lie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-a4B4aNStQ

Aha - Thank-you, Cidersomerset !

I knew I recalled viewing her presentation. Earlier today, I spent a half hour looking for it, but my memory was too vague to provide any hooks sufficient to track it down. It is an excellent analysis of what happened at the Pentagon.

(Honegger's presentation was previously posted on a couple of "compilation" threads on Avalon here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60288-Videos-From-Forbidden-Knowledge-and-More&p=713554&viewfull=1#post713554) and here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1383-The-Continuing-Search-For-The-Truth&p=714295&viewfull=1#post714295), with no response either time.)


This is slightly off-topic for this thread, but I watched half of Barbara Honegger's three hour presentation last night and was impressed. As she promised to her audience in her intro (in no way arrogantly), I learned quite a lot. I'd highly recommend it.

[Cidersomerset]

This is slightly off-topic for this thread, but I watched half of Barbara Honegger's three hour presentation last night and was impressed. As she promised to her audience in her intro (in no way arrogantly), I learned quite a lot. I'd highly recommend it.



I'm halfway thru 131.33 secs to be exact and its very good so far. I made the mistake of looking at some other threads
and just watched 1618033 9/11 Money Trail thread..

All part of the bigger picture' and more dot connecting. I know we can be in danger of overload
but it is still close to the 9/11 anniversary and one of the major in your face crimes in history.

Thanks 161803398 another important piece of the 9/11 psyop.

As I posted on the pearl Harbour thread, 'Lucky' Silverstein
has many unanswered questions. Let alone Rumfelds
announcement of the unaccounted large amount of money
in the Pentagon, and the neocon agenda after the fall of
the Soviet Union and the Corporate oil and mil ind complex
drugs and other intertwined agendas.


"Ten Years Later": The Money Trail of the 9/11 Terror Attacks


8ZP7I-vOkJc

Published on 6 Feb 2013


( this is similar to the above write up )

This is an excellent documentary, going into the money/paper trail of the
September 11 terror attacks. Namely, CIA and other government data, collected
during the 9/11 investigations, make clear that Mohammed Atta and the remaining
members of his terrorist commando were financed through a bank account leading
up to Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia and to BAE, a British-led military contractor,
and a notorious front firm, used for decades for terrorist and black operations.
These papers were made public during the investigation but, non-surprisingly, they
were not acted upon by the US government, nor by any other government, at least
in a visible, consequential manner.

The consequences of these facts (these are not optional, these are FACTS) are
vital, since they underline what many a good and intelligent person observed at
that time: if you wanted to look for an Axis of Evil, then you should look into what
have always been known to be al-Qaeda's traditional, historic backers -- the Saudi
oligarchy and the odd, shady, City of London-connected firm.

Yet, the Axis of Evil was arbitrarily drawn on a map following strategic points in the
heart of Eurasia and, before you knew it, the world was deep into the "War on
Terror" narrative, whereby you needed to launch invasions and coups to,
supposedly, fight Islamist terrorism. After 12 years of "War on Terror" and "Middle
East democratization", the effect of this was, obviously and predictably, the exact
opposite -- Islamist terrorism has never been so fierce and emboldened.

Meanwhile, the poisonous spell of these narratives is not to be broken. After all,
British strategists like Bernard Lewis and their US disciples (people like Zbigniew
Brzezinski, Samuel Huntington, or the PNAC group) spent the two decades
preceding 9/11, hammering on about the coming "clash of civilizations", whereby
the "Christian West" would be forced into an epic clash with the "Islamist East", all
along the "Arc of Crisis", from Mauritania to Pakistan. That struggle for the Grand
Chessboard, Eurasia, would also jolt the "Confucian Chinese" and the "Orthodox
Russians" into the fray, through proxy wars and the such. A lot of big people were
counting on a big action drama to kick off the 21st century, and a couple of facts
couldn't be allowed to get in the way of that.

Watch this video, do your own research, and share this with everyone you know.
Don't get stuck on 9/11, like a lot of people do. There are a lot of more important
issues to deal with right now. Yet, it's extremely important to start reclaiming the
true history, so people will know who the main backers of terrorism are. And they
are so to this very day. Look at the jihadis of Syria and Libya, and look at their
main backers: the Gulf oligarchs and the inevitable British. It's always the same
essential, core bunch.

This excellent video was made by the Larouche PAC people: http://larouchepac.com/10yearslater



http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?63449-9-11-Money-Trail&p=731374#post731374

[araucaria]

Bill, you need to listen to the end I still have half an hour to go, but I want to make a couple of points now.
First, see General Wesley Clark at c. 2:26 talking as early as 2003 of a Neocon ‘policy coup’. It would shed light on the Gen Stubblebine debate to know what people think of this man’s credibility.

Secondly, Honegger mentions the discovery that 911 was the hundredth anniversary of an initiative of Mahatma Gandhi’s, on 9/11/1901, and she makes a concrete proposal towards doing something positive with regard to 911. She calls it ‘officializing the truth’ by ordinary people doing basic training to become a notary public, to enable them to take sworn testimony and produce sworn affidavits that can be used in a court of law. Her April Gallop interview for example was taken under oath. I think this is very important for Americans to think about.

[Bob]

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/album.php?albumid=787

when there pls click on the pix.

[onawah]

That link doesn't work

[ThePythonicCow]

Below is the image that Bobd posted of the Pentagon - showing what it looked like after the secondary explosion at 10 AM.

http://thepythoniccow.us/Pentagon_After_10_AM_explosion.jpg
===

Below is the image shown by Barbara Honegger (see her presentation, linked in some posts on the previous page of this thread) - showing what the Pentagon looked like after the alleged plane impact at 9:38, prior to the 10 AM secondary explosion:

http://thepythoniccow.us/Barbara_Honegger_Key_Pentagon_Photo.jpg
The first story is at the very bottom of the image, starting just above ground level. The second story shows just two window sections destroyed.



¤=[Post Update]=¤


That link doesn't work

Bobd posted a link to an attachment in one of his private albums, so only some members can see it.

I reposted the image for all to see, in my post just above (since it was a fairly well publicized image, this seemed OK to me to do.)

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Paul (above) is correct. The well-publicized image above (the one in Bob's album, with the fire trucks and the heavily damaged wall) was taken AFTER the wall had collapsed, and is far larger than the hole was originally.

Here's what the wall looked like BEFORE it collapsed. I believe, but do not know for sure, that this was probably the image that General Stubblebine was referring to when he had his epiphany (= dramatic turnaround realization) that the official story must have been a lie. It IS kinda obvious that there could not possibly have been a 757 which impacted the Pentagon at that point.

http://www.oilempire.us/oil-jpg/blue6.jpg

[ThePythonicCow]

In order to make it easier for readers to correlate the last two images above (my last posted image and the one Bill posted) with each other, and with the alleged location of the airplane impact, I have taken screen shots of a portion of each image, and hand drawn red lines on both, on the corresponding same location, around the location where the airplane allegedly impacted.

Bill's image shows more of the ground (including the famous "pristine" lawn with no sign of an airplane's low hanging engines gouging up the grass), whereas the last image I posted has less smoke obscuring the left side of the alleged impact hole.

http://thepythoniccow.us/Pentagon_Close_Up_Img1.jpg


http://thepythoniccow.us/Pentagon_Close_Up_Img3.jpg
Primary things to note: there is no 757 in that hole, and that hole is way too small to hide a 757. If the 757's engines had cleared the lawn, without touching it, then the main body of the 757 would have been at the level of the 2nd and 3rd stories of the building, which has just the outer walls of one small, two window, section knocked out.

Not even the vertical wall between the two knocked out windows on the second story is missing -- this is exactly where the nose (and all the fuselage behind it) of the alleged 757 would have impacted.

[Bob]

If that is the time sequence, what made the second hole? ALL I had to work with was the big hole image. I remember my shock turning on the tube back then that morning and saw like hours and hours of TV coverage.. The big hole caught my attention. It was terrifying !

[ThePythonicCow]

If that is the time sequence, what made the second hole? ALL I had to work with was the big hole image. I remember my shock turning on the tube back then that morning and saw like hours and hours of TV coverage.. The big hole caught my attention. It was terrifying !

Barbara Honegger does the best job I've seen of explaining this. See Behind the Smoke Curtain (The 9/11 Fable of the Pentagon Attack) - Barbara Honegger - Cidersomerset's Post #135 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?63367-Gen.-Bert-Stubblebine--Gnostic-Media-Interview--Sept-13-2013&p=731175&viewfull=1#post731175), above.

There was a secondary explosion at 10 AM, which caused the larger hole.

[Bob]

I saw in the "second" pix, now that I stand corrected by Paul, and I have been there, lots of very heavy walls, up to the top floors came down also. What type of device can make a small hole, penetrate THAT deep as it did, and somehow then create an explosion that takes out all the concrete and reinforcement. That is quite a yield, right?

I am starting to read up on all this now, that is why I have questions and I AM sincerely interested in understanding and I am willing to learn.

Please show me where I can get actual data to explain what yield missile would do it. I have looked at the different types of Twin Towers threads, and have had a great discussion on what type of technology could create a remote type of attack. which is plausible.. I suppose such could have been used on the Pentagon, but I had not connected those dots.. What I recall is the pictures from the morning on the tube when the twin towers were hit and that stuck with me and it was quite traumatic.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



If that is the time sequence, what made the second hole? ALL I had to work with was the big hole image. I remember my shock turning on the tube back then that morning and saw like hours and hours of TV coverage.. The big hole caught my attention. It was terrifying !

Barbara Honegger does the best job I've seen of explaining this. See Behind the Smoke Curtain (The 9/11 Fable of the Pentagon Attack) - Barbara Honegger - Cidersomerset's Post #135 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?63367-Gen.-Bert-Stubblebine--Gnostic-Media-Interview--Sept-13-2013&p=731175&viewfull=1#post731175), above.

There was a secondary explosion at 10 AM, which caused the larger hole.

Thanks Paul, I will check that - this thread HAS gotten me interested in this.

[Bill Ryan]

If that is the time sequence, what made the second hole? ALL I had to work with was the big hole image. I remember my shock turning on the tube back then that morning and saw like hours and hours of TV coverage.. The big hole caught my attention. It was terrifying !


Hi, Bob -- I learned quite a bit of further detail that I didn't know by watching Barbara Honegger's excellent presentation. Three hours, but three hours very well spent. I've embedded the video again at the bottom of this post.

The initial hole was made either with planted explosives, a missile, or a small military aircraft or drone. Certainly no passenger plane.

But they didn't make it large enough! April Gallop's office was very close to the hole, and she evacuated her room by exiting the window next to the hole with her young son. There was no plane, and there were no plane parts, visible to her or anyone else she spoke to.

The larger hole (as I understand -- Paul, please correct me if I'm wrong) was created when the unstable structure of the wall collapsed shortly afterwards.
(edit: Paul HAS corrected me: it may have been 'helped' to collapse by a second powerful explosion that happened at about 10 am.)

Many people who are not fully familiar with the 9/11 story (which is complex and contains many twists and turns) can be totally forgiven for their misunderstandings based on incomplete information.

The relevance here to the comments you made on your photo album (where you wrote "I really just don't get it") is that the anomaly is explained. Stubblebine stated that it was obvious to him that the official story was a lie (my paraphrase), and he was quite correct in his logic and his conclusions. As best I could see, there was nothing in the Veterans Today transcript you posted (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/album.php?albumid=787) that was incorrect or anomalous. It all stacks up.

Whatever personal opinion you may have of Stubblebine based on believed or perceived past events, his recent video presentations are factual, logical, and contain no inconsistencies. And there's no way I can see that anyone benefits apart from the 9/11 truth movement.

Here's Barbara Honegger!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-a4B4aNStQ

[Jean-Luc]

Well done Bob.

It's easier to impact people with lies and false perceptions than to make them admit they have been deceived for so long.

[ThePythonicCow]

We (Bill and I) have found some more of Honegger's work regarding the Pentagon:

Barbara's Powerpoint presentation (Vancouver Hearings on 9/11, June 15, 2012) (http://donaldfox.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/vancouver-ppt-6-28-2012.ppt)
The Terror Conspiracy: Deception, 9/11 and the Loss of Liberty, published in 2006, authored by Jim Marrs, with Appendix by Barbara Honegger (http://amzn.com/1932857435 )
Online, HTML version of the above 2006 appendix by Barbara Honegger. (http://u2r2h-documents.blogspot.com/2006/11/honegger-pentagon-attack-non-pdf.html)
A 39 page pdf document with the above Appendix by Honegger, updated as of January 2011 (http://physics911.net/pdf/honegger.pdf)
Below, another Youtube video of Barbara Honegger, presenting her results to a smaller audience at Portland, Oregon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jqHV9KS35E)

3jqHV9KS35E

[Bill Ryan]

--------

At the very end of her presentation, there's this notice:

http://projectavalon.net/Honegger_DVD_request.gif

[ThePythonicCow]

At the very end of her presentation, there's this notice:
Similar to above, from 9/11 Pentagon Attack – Behind the Smoke Curtain – Barbara Honegger (http://jhaines6.wordpress.com/2013/08/16/911-pentagon-attack-behind-the-smoke-curtain-barbara-honegger/), with selectable text, live links and more details:




To purchase the DVD please send an email to bshonegg@gmail.com with the subject “DVD Request”. To request a speaking event with Barbara Honegger please use the same email with the subject “Speaking Event”.

You can also purchase the “Behind the Smoke Curtain” DVD at http://911ts.org

You can download this video for free at http://archive.org/details/BTSC-051113D

[Bob]

Tnx Bill and Paul - I have gotten through 50% of both so far. My bandwidth on Satellite makes it hard to not loose my FAP quota. What is there that I have been able to read, has TOTALLY given me a great new perspective on what I was missing. It's a very good read, and thanks so much ! I'd recommend it to anyone who wants to connect dots. bd

[ThePythonicCow]

Below is the image shown by Barbara Honegger (see her presentation, linked in some posts on the previous page of this thread) - showing what the Pentagon looked like after the alleged plane impact at 9:38, prior to the 10 AM secondary explosion:
...
The first story is at the very bottom of the image, starting just above ground level. The second story shows just two window sections destroyed.
Here's a better resolution version of this same image, taken from slide 109 of Honegger's 194 slide powerpoint presentation referenced above:

http://thepythoniccow.us/Barbara_Honegger_Key_Pentagon_Photo.bmp

[Cidersomerset]

Thanks Paul I am watching the second presentation by Barbara Honneger and it a
good way to recap with the vast amount of detailed analysis she presents, much
we have seen before on other presentations but she has highlighted many
important links to the bigger picture playing out. An important clarification
was the actual window April Gallop got out of and it being in wedge 2 not one,
though many of thewitness's including April smelt cordite not aviation fuel thus
confirming a bomb rather than plane.

I have stopped for a break and to check part of the In Plane site documentary
about the Pentagon and an important question about the amount of fuel carried if it
was a airliner. ( which it was not)..LOL...

-21XQkrEshs


smcprsGf-dw


When I first found out the facade was still intact after the attack, it was
even more obvious there was no airliner.


http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7c7826092fe3.jpg


http://www.oilempire.us/oil-jpg/pent-ricostruzionedannouw0.jpg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now its been pointed out a drone decoy attack probably took place
to mask the internal bombing you can see the impact on this pic
below by the heli port/fire engine building,which now becomes
more significant....

http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/imgs/lawn2.jpg


http://criticalthrash.com/terror/P1010013.JPG

[norman]

'9/11 in Plane Sight' was the very first 9/11 documentary to come out. Dave Vonkleist was a co-host of the "The Power Hour" radio show on GCN.

I was listening to The Power Hour regularly on Short Wave radio via WHRI worldwide so I was aware of the the DVD as soon as it was released, in fact before that. He gathered a pile of video cassettes from listeners from which he compiled the material for the DVD.

The information about the pre collapse damage to the Pentagon was right there from the beginning and I'm now amazed that people are saying that it's a little known fact among 9/11 researchers and activists.

Also in that DVD is a section about the strange pod shape under the plane that hit the second tower. There was quickly a rallying among the so called truthers at the time to dissmiss the DVD as dissinfo and it was fading away by the time the next DVD came out called "Loose Change", which became a very big 'hit' and I suppose, now, was where most people got on board with 9/11 truth.

I've just assumed that everyone was aware of the pre collapse half hour at the Pentagon. Just goes to show that when we are discussing stuff here we shouldn't always assume that the others know all the facts, nor should we assume that WE know all the facts either.

[Cidersomerset]

I've just assumed that everyone was aware of the pre collapse half hour at the Pentagon. Just goes to show that when we are discussing stuff here we shouldn't always assume that the others know all the facts, nor should we assume that WE know all the facts either.



I know Norman its one of the first I saw on the subject and is very good.
Barbara's presentations on the Pentagon are more in depth and goes into the
political side of the psyop.

Its not the pre collapse that is new, most people who have seen any of the
Pentagon presentations should have come across that. Its the other strike
by a possible drone, to cover up the first explosion a few minutes earlier
to make it look like a plane attack that is new to me. I suspect when
the explosives went off, they had hoped the facade would have collapsed
instantly so they could claim the plane had been swallowed up straight
away.

This is also different to the theory it was a missile, drone or small plane
used to cause the main strike, not the surmised diversion by the heli/fire
house.


Its worth a watch for any one looking in.

kqnc75CWZAo


===================================================

Just looking in my archive and......

One of the first threads I posted

Re: Architects and Engineers solving the mystery of WT7


11th September 2011 18:28 Link to Post #2


I've just listened to Major General Stubblbine former Head of Intelligence , Says
whatever hit the Pentagon was not a plane.......

Very credible expert witness....


daNr_TrBw6E

Aaron Russo confirming 9/11 Fraud most would have heard this before,
but worth repeating especially for anyone new looking in..
He explains how Rockafella and the elites have manipulated everything
to eventually get us all chipped and back to serfdom...


LKUVY28QI8I

Cheers Steve...

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30173-Architects-and-Engineers-solving-the-mystery-of-WT7&p=306336#post306336

===================================================

Another of my early threads that one man and his dog watched .. LOL

http://www.dphotographer.co.uk/users/8281/thm200/96bw.jpg

9/11 TRUTH: Jewish Ex-Marine SPEAKS OUT on Zionist/Israeli Involvement (MUST WATCH

I also posted Major General Albert Stubblebine vid on here as well..LOL


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?47140-9-11-TRUTH-Jewish-Ex-Marine-SPEAKS-OUT-on-Zionist-Israeli-Involvement--MUST-WATCH-

[Carmody]

In order to make it easier for readers to correlate the last two images above (my last posted image and the one Bill posted) with each other, and with the alleged location of the airplane impact, I have taken screen shots of a portion of each image, and hand drawn red lines on both, on the corresponding same location, around the location where the airplane allegedly impacted.

Bill's image shows more of the ground (including the famous "pristine" lawn with no sign of an airplane's low hanging engines gouging up the grass), whereas the last image I posted has less smoke obscuring the left side of the alleged impact hole.

http://thepythoniccow.us/Pentagon_Close_Up_Img1.jpg


http://thepythoniccow.us/Pentagon_Close_Up_Img3.jpg
Primary things to note: there is no 757 in that hole, and that hole is way too small to hide a 757. If the 757's engines had cleared the lawn, without touching it, then the main body of the 757 would have been at the level of the 2nd and 3rd stories of the building, which has just the outer walls of one small, two window, section knocked out.

Not even the vertical wall between the two knocked out windows on the second story is missing -- this is exactly where the nose (and all the fuselage behind it) of the alleged 757 would have impacted.

Most missiles are accurized.. ie designed, software wise, to hit the waterline (of a ship), or as close to it as possible. Pretty well the same for ground based. tanks, low buildings, etc. Hit the bottom, and the top comes down on it's own. Might depend on the specific design, but look it up. Most missiles are designed to hit at that level above the ground or waterline. Especially if the given launch vehicle, in the case a plane, has a perfect flight and sight line for the 'shot'.

Think about it. A modern missile is designed to be efficient. As functional as possible. And that means a low hit..is the most effective hit. The ship, or building, or tank, or whatever facility... is to go down in as few missile shots as possible. A high shot on a ship is almost an entire waste of a missile, so at the design level and effectiveness level, this is to be avoided at all costs. Design the missile to work where it is most effective.

And in that sort of analysis, this image of the pentagon and this 'hit' on it....looks like a perfectly made missile shot, where the missile followed and acted in it's native programmed behavior.

[Cidersomerset]

Think about it. A modern missile is designed to be efficient. As functional as possible. And that means a low hit..is the most effective hit. The ship, or building, or tank, or whatever facility... is to go down in as few missile shots as possible. A high shot on a ship is almost an entire waste of a missile, so at the design level and effectiveness level, this is to be avoided at all costs. Design the missile to work where it is most effective.

And in that sort of analysis, this image of the pentagon and this 'hit' on it....looks like a perfectly made missile shot, where the missile followed and acted in it's native programmed behavior.

I would have said it was likely a missile, and there are many posts on threads on here including me, and I would not rule it out. Barbara does make
a good case for internal explosions , and the columns being bowed out not in, but if more evidence can be found I'm open.

[araucaria]

Think about it. A modern missile is designed to be efficient. As functional as possible. And that means a low hit..is the most effective hit. The ship, or building, or tank, or whatever facility... is to go down in as few missile shots as possible. A high shot on a ship is almost an entire waste of a missile, so at the design level and effectiveness level, this is to be avoided at all costs. Design the missile to work where it is most effective.

And in that sort of analysis, this image of the pentagon and this 'hit' on it....looks like a perfectly made missile shot, where the missile followed and acted in it's native programmed behavior.

I would have said it was likely a missile, and there are many posts on threads on here including me, and I would not rule it out. Barbara does make
a good case for internal explosions , and the columns being bowed out not in, but if more evidence can be found I'm open.
It could be internal explosions designed to look like a missile, which would explain a certain amount of contradictory data. Why would they want to do that? Well, it provides an extra layer of protection. If the plane theory is not sustainable, then the missile theory kicks in. The need to hide the explosions is because, as Honegger points out, it means it canoot possibly be anything other than, literally, an inside job.

[nonesuch]

I just watched the Barbara Honneger 3-hr video. She is particularly articulate, doesn't mince words or over-hype her facts with emotion. She makes a most important point that without the Pentagon being 'hit', the Twin Towers disaster wouldn't have been serious enough to convince Americans that the faked enemies were declaring war against the government. The attacks would have been considered another iteration of the earlier attack on the WTC in the 90s, and it might have been handled by the courts rather than through unprovoked wars with malicious and hidden intents.

She gave the talk at the beginning 2012, when the NSA citizen surveillance programs were not being discussed by the general public. The fact that part of PNAC's plans, spying on citizens, is now publicly acknowledged lends credence to the truth she spoke of; that is, that unfriendly foreign agents have hijacked our government's policies to serve purposes that have nothing to do with our national security.

I think its great that Stubblebine is giving us his opinion that the hole in the pentagon wasn't made by a 757. It will help some people look behind the 9/11 'pet goat' storybook that PNAC has been reading to us for 12 years. He appears sincere to me, but I don't think the man's motives should automatically be assumed to be honorable simply because he seems like a nice guy. There are lots of torturers, thugs and killers in the spook business who appear genuinely compassionate. Most have little to no conflict about activities that would earn any ordinary citizen the death penalty. The kindly General may have had very patriotic rationales for WHY he tortured and/or murdered both friends and strangers. Or he may be your garden variety, kindly psychopath with a supportive wife who, I noticed, offered a convenient disclaimer for her husband's upcoming words, jovially informing the viewer that the old coot was nuts before she exited the controversy, at the beginning of the OP video.

As George Burns one said, "The most important thing in acting is honesty. If you can fake that, you've got it made."

Regardless, Stubblebine's opinions could sway those who aren't judging his career or following 9/11 with a red hot microscope, so it may add a touch or even a punch of credibility that inspires them to check out the source of the NSA citizen surveillance programs that are more popularly discussed today than 9/11.

Barbara Honneger has been around for years causing trouble in a tidy sort of way, like a librarian with a cause. Her thorough presentation reflects that style. Three hours is a quite a time commitment, but if a newcomer to 9/11 truth wants substantial information without the ominous music typically accompanying lesser 9/11 vids, her talk is worth the investment. I was impressed that she could talk undistracted that long without tripping over any words; and no 'uhs' or 'ers'. Listening to her was painless. Her simple suggestion for how to turn testimony into a legal documentation was inspired, possibly brilliant, if the law allows it in your state.

[Midnight Rambler]

Most missiles are accurized.. ie designed, software wise, to hit the waterline (of a ship), or as close to it as possible. Pretty well the same for ground based. tanks, low buildings, etc. Hit the bottom, and the top comes down on it's own. Might depend on the specific design, but look it up. Most missiles are designed to hit at that level above the ground or waterline. Especially if the given launch vehicle, in the case a plane, has a perfect flight and sight line for the 'shot'.

Think about it. A modern missile is designed to be efficient. As functional as possible. And that means a low hit..is the most effective hit. The ship, or building, or tank, or whatever facility... is to go down in as few missile shots as possible. A high shot on a ship is almost an entire waste of a missile, so at the design level and effectiveness level, this is to be avoided at all costs. Design the missile to work where it is most effective.

And in that sort of analysis, this image of the pentagon and this 'hit' on it....looks like a perfectly made missile shot, where the missile followed and acted in it's native programmed behavior.

You May have heard of the arrest and trial of Viktor Bout and the stolen Granit? (Russia's P-700 Granit long-range anti-ship missile (SS-N-19 'Shipwreck'), regarded as the most feared Soviet anti-ship cruise missile of the Cold War era).

In the following interview of Daniel Estulin with Dimitri Khalezov some interesting information comes to light.



http://www.danielestulin.com/wp-content/uploads/Dimitri_Khalezov_interview_2.jpg


But when it comes to the Russians, they can not admit the truth – that the “Granit” missile with its thermo-nuclear warhead was stolen from the sunken “Kursk” submarine, because Putin back in 2000 solemnly declared to the world that there were no nuclear weapons on board of the sunken submarine.


So, once the missile was fired towards Washington D.C. it compared the two most important targets – the White House and the Pentagon and “preferred” to strike the latter one as being in its “opinion” the more important target. Perhaps I should mention that this is the most heavily armored missile in the world – it is made from very thick steel and in fact it could be compared with a flying tank or with a giant bullet. Due to its tremendous speed, weight and strength of its body this missile managed to penetrate six capital walls of the Pentagon building when it struck it on 9/11.



http://www.danielestulin.com/wp-content/uploads/KHALEZOV-ESTULIN-INTERVIEW-FINAL-ENGLISH-VERSION.pdf

Source I (doc) (https://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.danielestulin.com%2Fbout%2FEstulin-Khalezov_interview_on_Victor_Bout.doc&ei=jMM6Usu7AuWg0QWnuoHYBQ&usg=AFQjCNH9H8ujX_DtmihVTiZV_zRjvTzzrA&sig2=SmLUnUTO441t5rBTl3qs7A&bvm=bv.52288139,d.d2k)

Source II (original Spanish) (http://www.danielestulin.com/2010/10/13/entrevista-dimitri-khalezov/)

Source III (English translation) (http://skypotrol.net/2010/10/13/arms-trafficking-stolen-missiles-soviet-submarines-nuclear-detonations-and-911-exclusive-interview-with-dimitri-khalezov-in-bangkok/)

[Carmody]

Very few people discuss the critical part, that seems to have gotten lost.

That the people who died, and the area that was destroyed at the Pentegon, was, apparently..predominantly the group, and their investigation... that was investigating the paper trail of the missing/lost ~2.23 trillion dollars (give or take ~100 billion!) that the pentagon could not account for. This was exposed in a public announcement made by Rumsfeld, and Dov Zakheim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dov_S._Zakheim), the day before (?), on Sept 10th/2001 (IIRC, on the date of the announcement).

When looking at his resume, you will definitely see the most hair raising levels and alarm sounding 'conflicts of interest' that is humanly possible to see on a given human's resume.

One could hide one hellva lotta advanced technology, underground installations, alien relations, and off world space fleets inside of a very messy and missing $2.3 trillion.

To also understand that we are looking at infinite energy reserves with the over unity technologies that would be in use, so the 'value', in our usual understandings, is much higher, as with infinite money reserves, via infinite energy, a large part of where our minds would put that money as expense, simply is not in that equation, it is unnecessary. That the missing $2.3 trillion is merely a match that starts (and now exists as) a much larger fire. A hidden advanced break away civilization that is apparently of a militaristic bent.

That the $2.3 Trillion, is more of an 'expense' into a integration point with US (we, humans in the state of ignorance of all of this), as any breakaway system has no more need of money as we now see it.

[onawah]

Gen. Bert is blowing another whistle now, this time about another possible flu epidemic.
From: http://drrimatruthreports.com/general-bert-on-the-mutating-flu-virus-we-told-you-so/


I warned you about the potential for a weaponized flu as the data points have pointed to that possibility.

The warning in 2009 energized millions to refuse the swine flu vaccine, probably preventing a swine flu pandemic. Again I warned earlier this year about the potential for a dangerous flu made more dangerous by the flu vaccine’s never tested for safety (see: http://drrimatruthreports.com/?p=15961).

Now we receive confirmation from respected scientific sources that the flu vaccine can, in deed, ‘cook up’ ever more dangerous versions of the common flu:

FLU VACCINE MAY MUTATE THE INFLUENZA VIRUS!

“In a study, published in The Lancet Infectious Diseases this month, an international team of researchers from the University of Hong Kong compared H7N9, which first surfaced in February this year in Shanghai killing 40 people, with influenza A (H5N1) from 16 years earlier in Hong Kong.

They noted that the viruses took the same trajectory from animal to animal and later from animal to human as both flourished in “cosmopolitan megacities that were increasing in human population and poultry consumption before the outbreaks”, and both are on bird migration routes.

However, the researchers also raised the possibility that the widespread use of H5N1 vaccine in East Asia might have predisposed the emergence of H7N9 and other related viruses.

http://www.scidev.net/asia-pacific/disease/news/struggle-to-explain-bird-flu-s-spread-to-humans.html

Zee Leung, programme officer at the International Development Research Centre (IDRC) in Canada, agrees with the findings pointing out that the research suggest that vaccination may have encouraged the H7N9 virus to mutate faster.”

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099%2813%2970167-1/fulltext


You need to be aware of this risk. How can you mitigate it? By two simple steps:
[1] BE A VACCINE REFUSER WITH ME! – http://tinyurl.com/VacineRefuser

[2] MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A SUPPLY OF NANO-SILVER AVAILABLE, AS DR. RIMA RECOMMENDS! www.DrRimaKnows.com


Stay aware! Stay healthy!

General Bert

[Kiforall]

I'll put this here to back up the post above, it does look like something is going on?

VKs2AlF4AuE

[Flash]

I had been missing that thread in 2013. Reading it now, Very interesting comment about psyops, all along this thread.

And many thanks to Bob.

As for Gardener comments on the video starting at min. 12, it is clearly hynosis that the general does, I recognise the technic and the effect. Why, I do not know. But he is much aware of what he is doing, no doubts about this.



Dennis he is just repeating what was already covered in alt media and if you go to 12min in the video he will use an entrainment technique, watch that bit see how it feels.

I have no idea why he is endorsing this or even how it might benefit the monolith truly I havent, and I can see where you are coming from. Something is amis. Ok off the wall ideas........ his involement with MK might be more than supervisory maybe he was beneficiary in which case anything goes. Something kicks in at the 12 min mark or shortly after. His meeting with Rima, possibly a 'love bite' scenario. Ok I'll get my coat lol.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc1ql4TfCZw

[Flash]

We ALL love you dearly and care about who you are getting your intel from.

Well, thank you! :)

But may I ask: what are you referring to when you you say "who you are getting your intel from"? (All the 'intel' I've ever received is open-source and has been freely shared.)


I don't consider the background of folks who's lives are about manipulation and psyops as those who would provide legit data.

I think this may be the nub of the discussion. When General Bert describes his epiphany gazing at that (very small!) hole in the side of the Pentagon, as best I understand from what you have shared, you find it unable to believe that he could be telling the truth. Although everything he says is factually correct (again, as best I know -- see my post #53 above), you are convinced that there must be deception there.

But if there IS deception in his presentation... where is it?

eheeheh - snicker, i don't think I can rephrase it in any other way, the history of the man is about psychological operations and deception is part of the training, and the activity. We have no way of finding deception without being the man. We have no way to interrogate the man, we have no way to read him to know him, we only have his past and the purpose of his department. What we do have is one does not achieve rank without toeing the party line. The rank is about as high as you can get, and to command your staff, you need to know lest you are not in that post long.

The mention of the epiphany - how many people know what that is? Epiphany: a Christian festival, observed on January 6, commemorating the manifestation of Christ to the gentiles in the persons of the Magi. ER, OK, and he had a "religious experience" and uses that to convince us a hole was created by a missile where all actual authority said a plane crashed, but he has a spiritual vision of what happened?

The first mind messing is to start with the mis-appropriate word and then that creates a stupor in the audience. You should know this if you were processed on such things with Capt. Bill during word clearing.

So technique 1 in psyops create the stupor and use it to gain sympathy, and or compassion from the audience.

What else do you want to go over?

What you say here Bob is so obvious to me. Just having been working in sales environments and I know those techniques, the 15% false hidden in 85% truth, the stupor trap of the brain, the making yourself like in order to get in, and the unsubstantiated spiritual exeprience to justify the approach and gain sympathy from the rest of the targets who may still resist - this is how sympatic the general has become.

THIS WHOLE THREAD, FROM PAGE 1 TO 9, IS SOOOOOO WORTH READING ENTIRELY FOR EVERYONE THAT i AM BUMPING. WORTH READING FOR THE DESCRIPTION OF MANIPULATIONS TECHNIQUES ALL ALONG. WE HAVE TO FAMILIARISE OURSELVES TO THIS. Easy ways to manipulate encountered on a daily basis all over, in sales, on TV, on YouTube, name it, are explained within a contect of conspiracy.

Now add to this the technologies (EMF usage, laser weaponry, sound for brain entrainement, etc) and you have the real conspiracies.

------------------------------

This thread will also help into seeing everyday manipulations from ordinary folks that are basically manipulating for whichever purpose, and this is a daily occurrence, we are just oblivious to it (thinking here for example of the latest manipulation on the H&Now thread, where the main manipulator got other members to engage and respond positively, while other members were seeing right through - if she would know how much manipulating she does unconsciously and how much of it we see, she would change her behavior because of shame). Manipulation pays, this is why we encounter it on a daily basis at work, at home, in the street, on forums.

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Dennis, you say on post 77 page 4 that you have shown the video in post 1 to dozen of people and nobody say anything wrong with it. Well, just before th 12th minute, he definitely switches to hypnosis techniques. I have been trained in hypnosis and had it done on me a few times for training purpose, plus for losing weight (it works), and I do recognise the technique and the impact it has immediately on me. There is no mistake on what he is doing. But as any good technique and good users, few are those that would see it, they just get entrapped and brain entrained into it.

[Dennis Leahy]

OK, this thread is resurrected, so again I consider:

Bob's viewpoint that Stubblebine MUST be lying and this whole thing MUST be a psyop, because Stubblebine was involved in psyop stuff years ago.
Flash's viewpoint that Stubblebine is employing a hypnosis technique, proof that this is a psyop.

I strongly disagree with both of you. If you know old men who were in the US military (my 95 year old dad was in the Navy), what you'll find - in virtually all of them - is a level and degree of sincerity and patriotism and sense of duty and honor that almost doesn't exist today. There were POWERFUL psyops going on: the entire notion of "communism" taking over the world was deeply ingrained, deeply felt, and deeply feared by these men when they were in active military duty. After the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution (which the Russian insiders quickly steered into totalitarianism), there was no word more powerfully pejorative than "communism", and no way to express the amount of "evil" that was injected (by propaganda/psyop) into that word. Hitler and Nazism took the torch for half a decade, then the switch back to communism as the great bogeyman. WWI and WWII soldiers had no doubt that they were fighting evil, and had they been asked in a polygraph test, all would have passed with flying colors. One soldier did his job (fighting Communism and Nazism) with a gun, another with a field map, another with a scalpel (my dad was a surgeon), another firing the boiler of a battleship, another as a propaganda specialist. They were all fighting AGAINST communism and Nazism, not fighting FOR the globalist, militarist-corporatist-bankster Elite or for Zionism.

I'm not sure who you (not Bob and Flash specifically, but "you", the reader, in the general sense) think pulled-off 9/11, but I'd bet a million bowls of guacamole that Stubblebine believed it was Islamic terrorists. He was retired, no longer part of the military, and believed - easily - every lie that was fed to him via the real perpetrators of 9/11 in their control of the US government and corporate mass media. It is not just astounding that Stubblebine connected the dots, it is even more astounding that he spoke up. This was his "Smedley Butler moment."

He tells us AS AN EXPERT WITNESS - expert in reading photographs and especially military operations photographs - that the hole was too small for a jumbo jet. That is, he told us that the official story is a lie. An expert military witness stood before a camera and told us the official story of what happened at the Pentagon was a lie. The highest-ranking military officer to make such a proclamation. It ripped his heart out to admit that the military had to have been involved (the NORAD shut-down, plus the simultaneous military "exercise" mimicking the (so-called) terrorist attack.) This emotion is also evident in the video.

It is unfair and just plain wrong to call Stubblebine's declarations a psyop, especially when there is no trace of his revelation having helped the real perpetrators.

Watch the video again. What you'll see is a hero stepping up to tell the truth (as he knows it) because in his core being he is a patriot and knows that the perpetrators are not. Wade Frazier has tried to warn us about conspiracism - where we will see conspiracies where there are none. 9/11 was a huge conspiracy, and there were many co-conspirators. Stubblebine is not one of them.

[Flash]

Dennis, I am absolutely certain that 911 is a psyop in many aspects. I am pretty sure that most people involved in the psyop did not even know it was a psyop.

That being said, I agree to disagree with you about the hypnosis tactics in the video. And for the word content, you are right, he seems legitimate, so why did he use hypnosis, it was not necessary. Therefore my biggest and largest doubts about him being genuine (the general looks physically like my grand dad, I have a natural tendency to like him, yet...).

And I am leaving it at this.

Love and peace - I did not know the history of this thread, maybe better to let it go and leave it for all of us here on the forum.

[Oouthere]

I think people need to know that General Stubblebine banged his head trying to walk through a wall. Just because someone makes it up through the ranks does not mean their logic is sound.

[awakeningmom]

Can someone explain what, exactly, supposedly happens around the 12 minute mark that shows any type of hypnosis technique -- and why that would matter? I've watched the clip a couple of times, and all I see is an elderly gentleman trying to articulate his thoughts about a very disturbing matter. Also, even if he is using some form of hypnosis technique to emphasize what he's saying -- what would be the point of that and why would it make this a "psy-op"?

Stubblebine's presence in the Truth Movement seems to have had pretty minimal impact. It's not like the MSM has picked up on him and used the story and his so-called truth cred to advance additional false narratives. To me, a psy-op would be someone like Snowden -- someone who is launched to the world so dramatically as a hero (and/or "traitor" if we are playing this game), someone who I s supposed to first earn our trust as someone who is also against spying/abuses of government, etc.... and then who slips in false information into the disclosure mix. The first day I knew Snowden was a full on psy-op was the day the MSM announced that Snowden's stolen files revealed that: it was, indeed, Osama bin laden in that bunker in Pakistan who was killed by Seal Team 6.....whether Snowden is part of it knowingly, or just set up as the unknowing dupe provided with the part true/part false info, I'm not entirely sure, though I lean towards the former these days....

[gripreaper]

I don't understand how anyone in the military in the last 80 years, who was the chief intelligence officer could not possibly know what was going on. Remember, Stubblebine was friends with Alexander, Woolsey and the rest of the very highest top of intelligence officers, and helped engineer, test, and implement some of the most atrocious psychological techniques on humanity. It doesn't matter who the "boogie man" was at the time or who the perceived enemy was, it is inconceivable to me he did not know.

[Limor Wolf]

I am borrowing this interview from Giovanni's thread, because I think it is an interesting listening that can contribute here as well.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENyJDYQ61yU

At around 27:00 Richi Allen asks General Stbblebine if at these times there are man and woman who are operative in this type of way (Being used as a psychic weapon), Stubblebine's response is really quite revealing in the psychological meaning of the word..


"It's too important to throw it away, it works, why would you not use that somewhere in your military"

If listening with more than just our surface hearing, we may detect this man's solid stand and point of view - what is literally being said is that we do need the military functions the way they are. There is no need in change, and it is acceptable to continue in the same direction.

This might serve as a good indication on the deepest tactics being used when a person like General Stubblebine is being 'sent free' (perheps in accordance to his own good will, but nevertheless) to the alternative world

When it comes to his stance expressed above I personally could think of some reasons as to why not -

* War games and espionage are based on false conflict under a sponsership that he must know about

* These 'talents' and abilities were achieved via an extremes of manipulation, trauma and mind control when it comes to the use of what is known as 'psychis soldiers' - Aka Milabs (the majority of use must be via these covert cells numerically speaking, as there are fewer who are employed willingly and openly). Former interviews indicate that General Stubblebine is well aware to the Milabs phenomenon

* Aspiring to kill via any means (he seem to support exploding someone's heart -28:10) is not forming any solutions but is endorsing the same old ways and energies used so far with a little innovative twist. It still serves the same
powers.

There is something quite intruiging and alluring to these capabilities in a society that is so blind, deaf and mute to it's own potential psychic capabilities, that it's exciting to hear these stories, without ever thinking how illegitimately and immorally it is when used under such circumstances

Many blessings ~

Limor

[DaveToo]

It's a pity Gen. Stubblebine is no longer with us (died February 6, 2017, aged 87), because it would have been interesting to hear/see him one-on-one with Wayne Coste to discuss what happened at the Pentagon on 9/11.

[TravelerJim]

I had business contact with one of his relatives maybe 15 years ago, I think it was a nephew or great nephew. In any case, the family called him "crazy Uncle Joe". Now my contact did not doubt at all his stories or his sincerity. But as with most people, he and the family did not want to deal with what the General was saying so gave him that handle. My takeaway from this brief conversation: The family thought the General was quite sincere in all that he was speaking of.... FWIW.....