The biblical concept of sin is a hoax

[Bubu]

Sin is designed to make us feel guilty, in the guilty state we feel disconnected and alone thus the illusion of "others" came into being. And this is where we start hurting others (ourselves actually) after all it is not "me".

So do ourselves a favor ; stay connected we are not sinners.

I wonder why the bible gave us an "original sin".

just spins of imagination share your thought.

[Karnax]

My thoughts..did the Bible give us the "Original Sin"..Nope!
Dam sure sin was committed way before then.
Sin isn't a hoax though..its a reality borne by the human perception of whats right & wrong.
Too feel is to be human :)

[AutumnW]

The act of hurting another should impact our feelings of empathy and concern. You are at your most empathetic and wise when you have reached the highest pinnacle you can, spiritually, through emotional refinement that typically corresponds with the individuation process. If everything is me and I am everyone then all of us are an undifferentiated mass, unable to make distinctions of any kind. The real illusion is that we are all one. In order to make distinctions, categorize, think and feel in a humane way, requires that we understand that the trip back to the Godhead involves a deep refining of spirit and an acknowledgement that we live in a physical world and are connected through the collective unconscious. Beyond that we are separate, unique and...struggling to comprehend.

Sin is an important concept. It describes when we are transgressing and aggressing others, animals and our planet. It may be awkward to accept that we are all sinners, but we are. I know I am a complete pain in the ass sometimes and I am working on it. We shouldn't get too bent out of shape about being jerks, because being meatbags stuck in 3 dimensions invites the worst kinds of desire to escape through vice, ego distortions, etc...By and large we are doing a pretty good job.

I get what you are saying about shame though. It's often very counterproductive, so we should just accept that we are flawed and deal with it and not let people guilt trip us, unless we have done something over the top awful. Then a little guilt and shame is probably tough but bitter medicine.

[dpwishy]

Sin is designed to make us feel guilty , in the guilty state we feel disconnected and alone thus the illusion of "others" came into being. And this is where we start hurting others (ourselves actually) after all it is not "me".

So do ourselves a favor ; stay connected we are not sinners.

I wonder why the bible gave us an "original sin".

just spins of imagination share your thought.

Sins are real and we do in fact sin. We must not forget this or unrighteous living is a bi-product. But we must understand what sin is or we can uselessly fall to the prey of guilt. Since the only thing that truly exists is love, sin in the eyes of this unconditional love is a mistake to be corrected, rather then some evil that should be punished or used to make us feel guilty. Any addict or alcoholic (like I) will tell you that guilt is the worse enemy of an being. It perpetuates the very act you are trying to stop. The guilt leads to depression, which leads to drinking. Its a vicious cycle of repeated wrong doings. If we can see sin for what it truly is, just an action that needs correcting, we can begin to grow and become better people. What we label as sins, I think is a more personal expression rather than a blanketed list. We will know what is sinful and not, what is righteous and not just by how it aligns with our heart and being.

A saint is a sinner who never gave up.....

In divine friendship,
your brother,
-wishy

[Camilo]

I wonder why the bible gave us an "original sin".


To control and manipulate the ones that buy into it.

[OMG]

Sin can simply be defined as doing something against your conscience.

Like sin - evil is equally real. To suggest "bad" things don't happen inside people's minds, heart or externally is naive.

However, bad things (sin, evil, etc) are also somewhat relative individually and collectively depending on ones view point and level of consciousness.

Yet it is true that people and organizations use concepts of "sin, evil, etc" to control and suppress people. One question I've always wondered about deals with Source or God. If ALL comes from God then God is ultimately response-able for creating sin/evil or the conditions by which such things can manifest. This is the hardest and most troubling concept to wrap your mind around and goes far beyond earthly or even alien influences manipulating us through such ideas/experiences.

Cheers

[Bubu]

Sin is an important concept. It describes when we are transgressing and aggressing others, animals and our planet. It may be awkward to accept that we are all sinners, but we are. I know I am a complete pain in the ass sometimes and I am working on it. We shouldn't get too bent out of shape about being jerks, because being meatbags stuck in 3 dimensions invites the worst kinds of desire to escape through vice, ego distortions, etc...By and large we are doing a pretty good job.


I get you. On the context of "evolution" guilt is a signal to do things better but in the context of " everything is perfectly what is meant to be" sin is an illusion because everything is predetermined and free will is not existence, That absolves us of responsibility. So guilt is good but don't hang unto it but rather take action towards evolution (do things better the next time).

[Bubu]

Sin can simply be defined as doing something against your conscience.

Like sin - evil is equally real. To suggest "bad" things don't happen inside people's minds, heart or externally is naive.

However, bad things (sin, evil, etc) are also somewhat relative individually and collectively depending on ones view point and level of consciousness.

Yet it is true that people and organizations use concepts of "sin, evil, etc" to control and suppress people. One question I've always wondered about deals with Source or God. If ALL comes from God then God is ultimately response-able for creating sin/evil or the conditions by which such things can manifest. This is the hardest and most troubling concept to wrap your mind around and goes far beyond earthly or even alien influences manipulating us through such ideas/experiences.

Cheers

I think it ultimately depends on how we define the word sin if we take the definition of manipulators sin will definitely create conscience.

And it also depends on our belief regarding freewill. As a person who do not believe in freewill I can not take credit nor make myself responsible. As I have said a little guilt or just the recognition that you need to change (evolve) is enough. I sin, I'm bad in the context that I can do things better but not on the context of "I am wrong" because everything is a piece; an important piece of evolution.

You are correct it's one of the hardest concepts to wrap our mind to. But by virtue of your ideas I am beginning to see things more clearly. so thank you all who shared your thoughts. Hope more will come ...

[DeDukshyn]

don Miguel Ruiz definition of sin, from ancient Toltec wisdom, "Anything you do that goes against YOURSELF" -- in the sense that hating/hurting others, goes against yourself, lying to others causes you to be untrustworthy -- against yourself, actions/words that are dishonest eventually lead to things that go against yourself, etc, etc.

That , for me, about sums up sin. It is hurting or taking advantage of others for perceived gain; when in reality that gain is an actual loss in the long term.

There are no "individual" actions that are sins, except those that go against someone, which is always against yourself.

There is actions, and reactions. Each is behooved to ensure that both are are not against self (others). That's the best I can describe the concept of sin as I see it.

ADDITION: I see "original sin" as original guilt; perhaps "original doubt" is better yet. It went from there ...

[markpierre]

Sin is designed to make us feel guilty, in the guilty state we feel disconnected and alone thus the illusion of "others" came into being. And this is where we start hurting others (ourselves actually) after all it is not "me".

So do ourselves a favor ; stay connected we are not sinners.

I wonder why the bible gave us an "original sin".

just spins of imagination share your thought.

'Original sin' isn't Biblical. It's Christian dogma. Sin means 'error'. Literally, you missed the target. Figuratively, you
won't get what you want by aiming where it's not. The effects of mistakes were not what you intended.
Shoot your arrow at the target and you might hit it.

[Bubu]

thanks mod team for correcting the title. I think that's what I am trying to say.


'There are no "individual" actions that are sins, except those that go against someone, which is always against yourself".

Nice phrase D.

Let me put what I am trying to say in different words.

It's fine to make mistake, "sin" if you prefer to call it that way. But the concept of guilt and conscience are all manufactured my the manipulators to detach us from inner self, No one can access inner self unless he/she is absolutely at peace with self.

So whenever I make mistake I will do my best to correct or make up for it but I will definitely not feel guilty.

[OMG]

There is a tendency in progressive mindsets that people suggest their actions may not be perfect but not bad either, just relative.

For most people this is probably true. So when a "bad" action is performed and others are hurt or possibly killed by them it is usually unintentional.

Unfortunately there are people (or beings) that deliberately try to harm or get their way without due consideration for others (they lack empathy or sympathy). These sociopaths may not know that they are sinful, evil, etc, but they certainty are. At least as far as social existence is concerned. The point with anything is what is the broader picture. Sociopaths are more limited.

Sin, evil, bad, etc, are FACTS and it is inappropriate to dilute these concepts just because we ourselves may be well intentioned.

Conscience is NOT a result of "manipulators" and neither is sin. Conscience is a spark of self awareness that allows us to observe ourselves in relation to our personal and social circumstances/environment. It ultimately helps our subjective nature relate to objective nature via the path of least resistance. While sin is a marker along the path.

If there is one word/concept that is of ultimate importance within this subject matter I would suggest that it is LOVE. Meditate and live on that...

ALL is well.

[OMG]

Hmmm...

Here's what the Urantia Book says.

148:4.3 “Evil is the unconscious or unintended transgression of the divine law, the Father’s will. Evil is likewise the measure of the imperfectness of obedience to the Father’s will.

148:4.4 “Sin is the conscious, knowing, and deliberate transgression of the divine law, the Father’s will. Sin is the measure of unwillingness to be divinely led and spiritually directed.

148:4.5 “Iniquity is the willful, determined, and persistent transgression of the divine law, the Father’s will. Iniquity is the measure of the continued rejection of the Father’s loving plan of personality survival and the Sons’ merciful ministry of salvation.

http://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/paper-148-training-evangelists-bethsaida?term=#search-jump-result-0


BTW: I'm not a follower of Urantia and only found these passages of interest.

If you read these and interpret such phrases, "obedience to the Father’s will", "unwillingness to be divinely led and spiritually directed, etc", as subjugating your self to some external being or power, then I think that would be an incorrect perspective. Instead it is quite possible that this Father and the spiritual guidance are all YOU in your Highest most comprehensive state. And it is simply referring to your willingness to open yourself up to your Ultimate potential. And when you don't, giving your self instead to lower egos or attributes (idolatry so to speak) you are committing evil, sin or iniquity, depending on the severity of your transgression.

[markpierre]

Sin can simply be defined as doing something against your conscience.

Like sin - evil is equally real. To suggest "bad" things don't happen inside people's minds, heart or externally is naive.

However, bad things (sin, evil, etc) are also somewhat relative individually and collectively depending on ones view point and level of consciousness.

Yet it is true that people and organizations use concepts of "sin, evil, etc" to control and suppress people. One question I've always wondered about deals with Source or God. If ALL comes from God then God is ultimately response-able for creating sin/evil or the conditions by which such things can manifest. This is the hardest and most troubling concept to wrap your mind around and goes far beyond earthly or even alien influences manipulating us through such ideas/experiences.

Cheers

But there's conjecture in there too. Everyone has defined it their own way according to a conditioned definition, that isn't what the word means.
It's translated from a Persian archery term that means you missed the target. The bulls eye. That's it. Of course it would be used to say that we screw up.
It shouldn't be interpreted along with evil. Evil means knowingly misrepresenting the truth, and that's all that word means.
But that would imply any willing deception. Obviously we give them degrees, but we go ahead and interpret the words in our own way again.
Here's a weird idea that's absolutely true. You can't know the purpose of any action that you can judge as right or wrong, except your own.
And you can't know the purpose of it anyway, so you can't judge yourself either. Your greatest sins might be the most progress you ever make.
Progress toward the goal. Things can always be viewed as useful, if they're used.
Knowingly judging another's actions would be the definition of evil. Judgement must be the most pervasive sin of all.

[Bubu]

"Judgement must be the most pervasive sin of all".

How true, I will remember that.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Sin is an Anunaki god, to Sin is to pay homage to this god. The hebrew god was this god's rival. That is the origins of the word sin.

There is no such thing as sin, only error or mistakes. To sin means one has transgressed some arbitrary laws and have attained a state that cannot be revoked or undone. A fallacy meant to control by guilt.

[Jake]

Native: "So if I had never heard of God or Hell or Sin, then I would not be condemned???"
Missionary: "Well, no!"
Native: "SO WHY DID YOU TELL ME THEN??"

I agree with Ernie. A fallacy meant to control by guilt/desperation.

[Cristian]

:p
http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Eskimo+Problems.+I+wanted+to+call+this+Eskimo+3.14+but_e60d29_4481772.jpg

[Bubu]

Sin is an Anunaki god, to Sin is to pay homage to this god. The hebrew god was this god's rival. That is the origins of the word sin.

There is no such thing as sin, only error or mistakes. To sin means one has transgressed some arbitrary laws and have attained a state that cannot be revoked or undone. A fallacy meant to control by guilt.

concise, thanks for the help with words

[hettleman]

Maybe "original sin" is the "manipulation of our DNA"?

[aniN]

Oh, don't worry.. do everything you like to do, then go to Sunday church and make a confession to the priest and all that you did is forgiven.

Oh, and yes: Romans 13 : Submission to Governing Authorities

13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

[hettleman]

I believe "original sin" refers to our DNA having been manipulated/tainted from our original source of origin. We were once "purebreds" as Jesus was, and now we are mutts! :-) The Bible states that Jesus was the "Only Begotten Son". "Begotten" means direct biological offspring. (Meaning Jesus DNA was pure in all its 12 strands of glory.) If our DNA was manipulated (down to two strands of DNA) then we are no longer "purebreds"....hence..."born into sin". It would explain why they say we need to be "cleansed by the blood of Christ" in order to rise into "God's Kingdom". Once a mutt, always a mutt...never to be a purebred again? Yet, where there is "a WILL" there is a way! Maybe Jesus is the truth, the light and the way because he is the only remaining "purebred"? Maybe HE is the only one who KNOWS where "HOME" is and to whom "Dad" gave the key to the front door? We have forgotten who we are and from where we came because we have been "messed with". We did not "create the sin", we were sinned against and now our DNA is "tainted". Just my thoughts on the subject!

[Akasha]

Hmmm...

Here's what the Urantia Book says.

148:4.3 “Evil is the unconscious or unintended transgression of the divine law, the Father’s will. Evil is likewise the measure of the imperfectness of obedience to the Father’s will.

148:4.4 “Sin is the conscious, knowing, and deliberate transgression of the divine law, the Father’s will. Sin is the measure of unwillingness to be divinely led and spiritually directed.

148:4.5 “Iniquity is the willful, determined, and persistent transgression of the divine law, the Father’s will. Iniquity is the measure of the continued rejection of the Father’s loving plan of personality survival and the Sons’ merciful ministry of salvation.

http://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/paper-148-training-evangelists-bethsaida?term=#search-jump-result-0


BTW: I'm not a follower of Urantia and only found these passages of interest.

If you read these and interpret such phrases, "obedience to the Father’s will", "unwillingness to be divinely led and spiritually directed, etc", as subjugating your self to some external being or power, then I think that would be an incorrect perspective. Instead it is quite possible that this Father and the spiritual guidance are all YOU in your Highest most comprehensive state. And it is simply referring to your willingness to open yourself up to your Ultimate potential. And when you don't, giving your self instead to lower egos or attributes (idolatry so to speak) you are committing evil, sin or iniquity, depending on the severity of your transgression.

Beautifully put, OMG. When reading the definitions you shared above, I was thinking to substitute Father with love, but since the higher self or, simply, the self is pure love, that'll do for me.

[Ernie Nemeth]

My savoir's name was Levi Swartz. A good little hebrew radical that had his name changed to the fictional character, Jesus Christ. Thus removed from his anscestral roots his name was safe to be worshipped by the new power and authority of Constantinople.
But we know that the bible is just a reworked book of much earlier times and has little to do with the word of The One True God. The true God unifies and accepts all, sinners, saints, archons and ninth-dimensional mud slimes. That God needs no book. Unless you understand the akashic records, that is the only "book" worth "reading".
Still, to each his own.

[OMG]

If a word exist (such as "sin") then it has reality and can not be undone anymore than anything once created can be uncreated. Words are simply concepts that connote or denote a meaning. Just because you don't like a concept doesn't mean you have the power to stop it or transcend away from it. Unless it derives from strictly a subjective mental aberration.