Obamacare software a disaster

[ThePythonicCow]

Mike Adams, who was a computer programmer and founded a successful software company before becoming the Health Ranger, has taken a look at the Javascript code that loads into your web browser if you attempt to obtain health insurance through HealthCare.gov.

Americans are required to have a qualified health care plan by early in 2014, or pay penalties on their income tax filing. For a large number of Americans, this means signing up for a health care plan on the website HealthCare.gov. That website opened for business on October 1, 2013.

The Obamacare code that Mike Adams looked at (code that is readily available to any geeky web user with appropriate skills) is a friggin' flamin' disaster that has no chance in Hades of working by January 1, 2014.

Here is his report at Obamacare computer code riddled with typos, Latin filler text, desperate programmer comments and disastrous architecture (http://www.naturalnews.com/042428_Obamacare_exchange_Javascript_critical_errors.html#):

===================


Thursday, October 10, 2013
by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger
Editor of NaturalNews.com

If I had told you one month ago that ten days into the launch of Obamacare not a single person could be confirmed to have successfully enrolled, you would have called me a lunatic. And yet, here we are, tens days into the launch, and guess what? The White House cannot produce a single person who has successfully enrolled through the federally-run exchange Healthcare.gov.

Not one.

The real story on the catastrophic IT disaster known as Healthcare.gov is only now beginning to be recognized by the nation. As a person with a strong IT background running large R&D projects, I was among the very first to claim that Healthcare.gov is not just broken, it's DOA because of critical design failures.

It's not merely a "glitch." It's way beyond a SNAFU. This is the defining failure moment of the delusional thinking of democrats and their fantasyland government-centralized economy.

Even ABC News is now calling Healthcare.gov, "nothing short of disastrous," adding, "Media outlets have struggled to find anyone who has been successful."

My analysis of the Javascript running Healthcare.gov

I have personally looked at the Javascript code running part of the Healthcare.gov website. If you are curious how I got the code, I simply typed the URL of the Javascript code into the browser address field. The browser then pulls up the entire code block, because Javascript is client-side code (not server-side).

...
Was Healthcare.gov designed to fail?

It's almost as if the entire system has been designed to fail. There is no rational justification for writing code like this. It's like someone held a contest to find out "who can write the most inefficient, wasteful computer code" and Healthcare.gov won the top prize!

And yet, at the same time, this project perfectly reflects the foundational philosophy of the Obama administration: sell the dream to get elected, then screw everybody when it comes to implementation.

It also forces you to ask the question: To what lengths will Obama go to try to cover-up this disastrous mess by causing some other crisis as a distraction?

I assure you this system has zero chance of smoothly functioning by January 1, 2014. And that means a massive public backlash is on the way. As the truth comes out on this, the Obama administration is going to be embarrassed like nothing else we've ever seen in the history of government. This failure is so monumental, so critical, and so disastrous that it discredits not just Obama but the entire socialist fantasy of government-run, centrally-planned economies. Healthcare.gov is the ultimate argument for a free market run without government interference. It epitomizes the incompetence of Washington D.C. like nothing else in history.

No need to delay Obamacare; it will collapse on its own

Ultimately, this also means we don't have to worry about trying to delay Obamacare. Obamacare is going to destroy itself! Sooner or later, the entire country will realize the absurdity of being fined by the IRS for not buying a mandatory insurance policy that cannot be purchased because the government-run exchange site is utterly non-functional.

Obamacare will go down in history as the greatest IT failure in the history of the world.
===================

There is more at the above link. For the geeky programmers in the crowd, it's a laugh.

For anyone remaining who held out any hope for Obamacare coming off on schedule ... abandon all such hope.

[Gardener]

I have just read through the article and well its almost as if it was designed to fail and that obamacare is from the outset nothing more than a tool to incite disent. It seems to have been successful in the partial shut down of gov which if not resolved by 17th will have further reaching effect. If I am understanding this shut down.

:crazy:

[jagman]

Paul these are the same people who spend 500 dollars on a single hammer.
I also bet that this monstrosity cost millions.

[ghostrider]

I tried to enroll my sister-n-laws kid , who is handicapped , and has siezures , she cannot drive , she may be 27 but has the mind of a 12 yr old ... she is freaking out , I tried to enroll her and got ten different links and never got anywhere ... she needs medication daily or she will have episodes that are scary ... what good is so-called free healthcare if you can't register ??? they had four years to prepare , and spent over 600 million and it still doesn't work ... errkkk

[ThePythonicCow]

Paul these are the same people who spend 500 dollars on a single hammer.
I also bet that this monstrosity cost millions.
From the above article of Mike Adams:
In fact, I am practically ROFLMAO just looking at this code. Any competent programmer in the world, upon seeing this, would just burst their britches in knowing the U.S. government spent $600+ million dollars on this project.

[markpierre]

Really enjoyed that one Paul.

"Send the Marketplace proof that [FN] isnt incarcerated (detained or jailed) by [Date]."

Ya. Because most of you useless dweebs are incarcerated or should be. Error code; bite me.

[rgray222]

My personal belief is that Obamacare has always been about helping big pharma and the insurance companies. People are waking up every day finding out that their company's healthcare premiums and deductibles have dramatically increased. Virtually every working person I know that has had access to their companies healthcare info for 2014, are telling stories about monthly premiums going through the roof and their deductible increasing several fold.

While I will not have complete access to my 2014 healthcare information (thru my company) until early Nov 2013, I have been able to partially review my plan. For exactly the same insurance that I have in 2013, they are increasing my deductible from $700 to $4000. I have not been able to view the monthly premiums yet, but people that are knowledgeable are telling us that they will more than likely double. Considering that I pay close more than $800 a month that is a real shock to the system. (the monthly cost is only speculation at this point)

My point is, even if Obamacare fails, the insurance companies will never lower their rates back to where they were. We will be stuck with the higher monthly premiums and the higher deductible for the rest of time. There has been speculation in the press about how badly the insurance companies would be hurt through Obamacare, taking on people with pre-existing conditions, insuring all people including the elderly etc etc, but have you heard the insurance companies scream. I haven't.

There is little doubt that big phama will have their hands in the governments pockets for even more prescription meds if Obamacare fails or succeeds, either way big pharma wins.

Big pharma has exercised strong control over the FDA for decades, holding up promising cures for serious illness such as cancer, MS, autism to name just a few. Big Phara has played a important role in preventing natural remedies from being sanctioned or even prescribed.


Obama promised to prevent drug companies from blocking generic drugs. This promise has clearly been broken, drug companies are reaping huge profits on the back of their own customers and the government has not lifted a hand to prevent this fiasco.

the promise to allow access to cross border drugs (i.e. Canada) has never been fulfilled or even talked about in any serious fashion.

If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor, now turns out to be patently false.

The average American will realize a $2500 annual saving, now the administration is debating how much the average Americans cost will go up.

The American public was told that the cost of Obamacare was not going to exceed $900 Billion. The CBO re-scored the bill about a year ago and said the cost was now in excess of $2.6TRILLION. They ended their report by saying the cost would substantially go up once they have identified everything in the bill.


With the implementation of the Affordable Care Act, the price of prescription drugs, including generic ones, may not be as affordable as some Americans had anticipated or hoped.

Though originally touted as a piece of legislation that would grant U.S. consumers access to safe and affordable drugs, heavy lobbying by Big Pharma — specifically the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA) — has prompted Congress to strip almost any language from the historic health care bill that would reduce the high price of prescription drugs for Americans.

According to reports, pharmaceuticals drugs in the U.S. currently cost about double what they do in other nations, including those comprising the European Union. Lower prices for prescription drugs, including name-brand drugs, are available for purchase via international pharmacy websites based in places such as Canada and the United Kingdom.

However, the Food and Drug Administration has warned Americans not to use these sites, saying that only U.S. online pharmacies, which are subject to regulation, should be used since other pharmacies often mislabel the drugs they sell.

I am all for getting all Americans on a healthcare program but when you stop and think about this bill (now law) it was always meant to benefit big business, it was always meant to push the cost of healthcare out onto the public through individual contributions (premiums & deductible) and through government subsidies which the American taxpayer pays.

There is even discussion that not all Americans will be covered under this new law, the debate now is how many will go without healthcare. Some in the media are reporting that it could be as few as 10 million and other are reporting that it could be as many as 30 million.

It seems to be exceptionally sad that this healthcare law was never about helping people, it was and is about helping corporations make more money. The insurance companies already benefited greatly by being bailed out once and this new law add more insult on top of more injury. Don't get me wrong, I am not against a company making an honest profit for goods or services they provide. But, making a profit from a mandated government program is morally wrong, obscenely objectionable and illegal.

It seems like we fall for it every time, when the government tells us they are going to do something that enhances our lives there is always another agenda behind their actions.

There is no doubt in my mind that people will hand the keys to the internet over to the government because they are going to tell us they will stop pedophiles or stop copyright infringement when it fact it will be about money and controlling content.

Our freedoms are being taken away one at a time because we are trusting souls. We want to believe that the the government means well and is telling us the truth but so often it is simply not the case. We are allowing this to happen with our eyes wide open.

The software disaster only proves this was about something other than the good of the American people.

[ThePythonicCow]

My personal belief is that Obamacare has always been about helping big pharma and the insurance companies.

...
The software disaster only proves this was about something other than the good of the American people.
Indeed ... well said.

[araucaria]

Whenever US health care comes up, I have difficulty understanding what is going on. As far as I can see, Obamacare was designed to provide a kind of social security we have had in Europe since 1945. Here again, the idea that 59-year-olds don’t blow a lump sum so that you get still draw a pension at 97 and beyond is seen as the principle behind any mutual providential fund. Granted, we may be paying too much when they tell us the system is going broke, but to me the principle seems a sound one.


:confused:

[ThePythonicCow]

Whenever US health care comes up, I have difficulty understanding what is going on. As far as I can see, Obamacare was designed to provide a kind of social security we have had in Europe since 1945. Here again, the idea that 59-year-olds don’t blow a lump sum so that you get still draw a pension at 97 and beyond is seen as the principle behind any mutual providential fund. Granted, we may be paying too much when they tell us the system is going broke, but to me the principle seems a sound one.
That's what ObamaCare was sold as, yes.

What it actually is we are still learning. The Speaker of the House at the time it was passed, Nancy Pelosi, famously said that "We have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it" (http://blog.heritage.org/2010/03/10/video-of-the-week-we-have-to-pass-the-bill-so-you-can-find-out-what-is-in-it/). It is many things. It provides a guaranteed customer base for medical insurance companies. It provides greater control over medical care providers, and less pay to them (many of whom are quitting as a result.) It provides for improved, more extensive and integrated data collection on Americans. It provides many benefits to a variety of corporations and bureaucracies who were able to lobby for their little place in the "sunshine" (one of the dark recesses of the bill.) It is purported to be the last great piece of tyrannical legislation that was needed for a few powerful to gain control over America

Here's a simple chart of just the Federal agencies, department and offices involved in ObamaCare:
http://dailybail.com/storage/obamacare%20chart.JPG?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1281453847041
A full sized version of the above chart can be found at http://kevinbrady.house.gov/uploads/Obamacare%20Chart.jpg

[ThePythonicCow]

Whenever US health care comes up
I just moved the last two posts above to my recent health care thread, instead of the Revealed at last: How the US intends to steal its citizens retirement funds (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?64301-Revealed-at-last-How-the-US-intends-to-steal-its-citizens-retirement-funds) thread where they were.

[araucaria]

A full sized version of the above chart can be found
Er, no thanks :)

[mountain_jim]

I have already been quoted my rate for same coverage next year and it went up 90%, which I can't do.

Could not create exchange account to see paltry options. Waiting for now, while I gather my torches and pitchforks for later.

Key Dem members in Congress and Senate controlled how this went down, as well, insuring insurance companies would still be in the drivers seat.

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/03/29/baucus-thanks-wellpoint-vp-liz-fowler-for-writing-health-care-bill/



Bachus thanks Wellpoint VP Liz Fowler for Writing Health Care Bill

Not a surprise really that upon passage of the health care bill, Max Baucus would openly thank Liz Fowler, the former Wellpoint VP, for writing it:



Mr. BAUCUS. Mr. President, there are a flood of emotions going through all of us today as we pass this reconciliation bill which improves upon the bill the President signed 2 days ago. I would like to focus only on one part–a very important part but only one part–and that is to thank the people who have worked so hard, especially in this body, to help accomplish this result.

[...]

We all want to thank so many people. Once we start mentioning a couple or three names, we run the danger of offending people whose names are not mentioned. We all know that. There will be an appropriate time for us to make all the thanks, and I will make mine so sincerely because I am so grateful for all the hard work my staff has put into this.

I wish to single out one person, and that one person is sitting next to me. Her name is Liz Fowler. Liz Fowler is my chief health counsel. Liz Fowler has put my health care team together. Liz Fowler worked for me many years ago, left for the private sector, and then came back when she realized she could be there at the creation of health care reform because she wanted that to be, in a certain sense, her profession lifetime goal. She put together the White Paper last November–2008–the 87-page document which became the basis, the foundation, the blueprint from which almost all health care measures in all bills on both sides of the aisle came. She is an amazing person. She is a lawyer; she is a Ph.D. She is just so decent. She is always smiling, she is always working, always available to help any Senator, any staff. I thank Liz from the bottom of my heart. In many ways, she typifies, she represents all of the people who have worked so hard to make this bill such a great accomplishment.

I will have printed in the Record the names of all my professional staff. There are more than I realized, so I can’t name them all. I ask unanimous consent to have that list printed in the Record and just regret that I cannot thank everybody personally.

It’s right up there with Tom Carper’s insistence that the Senate had to respect the White House deal with PhRMA because after all they paid for it with $150 million in political advertising as “most telling moments of the health care debate.”

Nancy Pelosi says the foundations of the health care bill were written by the Heritage Foundation. Probably true, Heritage is awash in corporate money. And really, the plan is no different from the one that AHIP (then HIAA) wrote in 1992:

- Every American was required to buy ‘an essential package’ of benefits

- The government would help define the essential package and private insurers would provide the standard package “regardless of a person’s medical history”

- Only the essential package would be protected from taxation. If employers bought more than the basic benefits, the premiums pad for the extra coverage “would be treated as income to the employees, and they would have to pay income tax on it.”

- The government would work with private insures to “stabilize health-care prices” and make sure private insures and government programs pay similar amounts for the same services in the same geographic area.

All of the underpinnings of the insurance “reform” package were already there, waiting for someone to sweep in and make AHIP’s champagne dreams come true. And now that the Chamber of Commerce is not funding the mandate repeal effort any more, those legislative efforts are stalling out across the country. Republicans in Alaska, Kansas, Georgia and Michigan have all voted down anti-mandate bills since the Chamber pulled the plug (failing by one vote in Kansas after Republican Dwayne Upmeyer “accidentally” voted against it. “Oops” was his response.) Sarah Palin didn’t mention the mandate in her speech before cheering Tea Partiers at Searchlight, no doubt conscious of the $2.5 million in donations the health care sector contributed to McCain/Palin in 2008.

The insurance industry has spent their money well, spreading it across both parties. They got what they paid for with this neoliberal health care bill. Ken Silverstein’s prescient 2006 article in Harpers on Obama’s early vetting by corporate interests still stands up. They sized up the situation accurately years ago.

Thanks indeed, Liz Fowler. The country really does owe you one.

[Calz]

Thanx Paul. I had not caught up with the code aspect. Very interesting.

Couple little snippets from vastly different types of sources.

1st regarding CNN's Wolf Blitzer.

2nd from Kerry's site from "Paladin" (I think ... there is a bit of confusion since under the title it says written by Kerry):





Shock: CNN’s Blitzer Endorses Obamacare Individual Mandate Delay

Infowars.com
Oct. 9, 2013

In a surprising show of backbone, CNN anchor Wolf Blitzer said the president might do well to heed the warnings of Republicans and delay implementation of the individual mandate portion of Obamacare for a year, citing the healthcare exchange websites’ reported multitude of glitches.

Much more: http://www.infowars.com/shock-cnns-blitzer-endorses-obamacare-individual-mandate-delay/



The Chip, Mark of the Beast and end of America

08 Oct 2013 12:06 | Written by Kerry Cassidy | Category: Paladin |

(*snip*)

We’re already starting to feel the devastating effects of this law and it hasn’t even been enacted yet. Ask yourself this question…Why would businesses be laying off workers and cutting back hours if this is such a good thing? Why doesn’t it apply to Congress if it’s such a good thing? And why are we being FORCED to sign up for it if it’s such a good thing?

I’ve got news…it’s NOT a good thing.

If Congress enacted a law that required the government to give every man, woman and child in the US a 1 ounce bar of gold on their birthday, do you think they’d have to FORCE people to show up on time??????

It will usher in the dreaded microchip…aka mark of the beast…and the destruction of America. The Republicans appear to be fighting this new law…or at least the timing of its beginning…by mentioning the financial ramifications and the “fairness” of it. On the surface, seemingly a noble cause. But as I watch Boehner and others state their positions….I would why they aren’t mentioning the chip…or vaccinations…or home visits….or IRS enforcement provisions. If they would disclose what’s REALLY in the law, it would be a slam dunk. The people’s voices would be so loud that puppets of the cabal would have to take pause and perhaps reconsider their orders from on high.

Much more: http://www.projectcamelotportal.com/2013-10-03-15-53-21/paladin-s-blog/1859-the-chip-mark-of-the-beast-and-end-of-america

[RunningDeer]

3 post upload coming

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/key_zps2ec3880d.jpg

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/president_zps653a4009.jpg

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/class_program_zpsb4c29d43.jpg

[Calz]

3 post upload coming



:lol:

No small wonder why the gov is in so much debt eh?


*adding*

It appears the Universe confirms :haha:


Posts:7,777

[RunningDeer]

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/key_zps2ec3880d.jpg

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/Gov_Health_zpsc6a22468.jpg


http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/president_zps653a4009.jpg


http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/class_program_zpsb4c29d43.jpg


http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/Gov_Health_zpsc6a22468.jpg

[RunningDeer]

Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute (PCORI)

The Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute, also known as PCORI, is a United States based non-governmental institute created as part of a modification to the Social Security Act by clauses in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

Establishment

The Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute was established by the 2010 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

Mission

"..The body is charged with examining the "relative health outcomes, clinical effectiveness, and appropriateness" of different medical treatments by evaluating existing studies and conducting its own. Its 19-member board is to include patients, physicians, nurses, hospitals, drug makers, device manufacturers, insurers, payers, government officials and health experts. It will not have the power to mandate or even endorse coverage rules or reimbursement for any particular treatment. Medicare may take the Institute’s research into account when deciding what procedures it will cover, so long as the new research is not the sole justification and the agency allows for public input.

The law governing the Institute prohibits it from developing or employing "a dollars per quality adjusted life year" (or similar measure that discounts the value of a life because of an individual’s disability) as a threshold to establish what type of health care is cost effective or recommended...”

full article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient-Centered_Outcomes_Research_Institute)


http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/PCORI_zpsb6ea8f3c.jpg

[happyuk]

Great thread! This parallels what happened for over a decade in the UK, with our failed NHS IT system.

The nature of large, multi-billion pound/dollar IT contracts with fixed requirements and budgets, including the UK Government project to provide a single IT system for the National Health Service in England, is that they are almost certainly doomed to fail, no matter how they are managed, monitored, audited, etc.

The complexity and sheer number of unknowns makes accurate advance budgeting impossible, and specification of satisfactory software designs impossible. There is also the unpredictability of the environment with which these systems must interact, making it impossible to determine requirements in advance, especially in very long term projects where developments in technology will change the constraints.

And this is before you factor in issues of bad management, dishonesty, ignorance etc that often plague large projects. (see the iSoft affair (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5284388.stm)).

Governments unwittingly give companies an unrealistic tendering task. Rather than lose business, companies do their best with their resources, and the governments enter into horrendously wasteful contracts. The situation is made worse by the fact that often it is impossible to get the requirements for new complex systems right, never mind the design

Is this avoidable? I fully empathize with the Republicans locking horns with Obama on this issue. The long term costs are stupendous and will heavily burden our taxpayers of tomorrow. No amount of consultation among experts, users, focus groups etc. can overcome this problem .

I am an experienced developer and my own experience suggests that the best systems depend on a subset of very bright software users who also learn to develop software. They are in a much better position to explore solutions that are both implementable and relevant.

There should never be a presumption that contractors who start on the projects will be the ones who finish them, contracts with such presumptions make it easy for contractors like iSoft to go on milking the tax-payers for a very long time.

[ThePythonicCow]

Whenever US health care comes up, I have difficulty understanding what is going on. As far as I can see, Obamacare was designed to provide a kind of social security we have had in Europe since 1945. Here again, the idea that 59-year-olds don’t blow a lump sum so that you get still draw a pension at 97 and beyond is seen as the principle behind any mutual providential fund. Granted, we may be paying too much when they tell us the system is going broke, but to me the principle seems a sound one.

That's what ObamaCare was sold as, yes.

What it actually is we are still learning. The Speaker of the House at the time it was passed, Nancy Pelosi, famously said that "We have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it" (http://blog.heritage.org/2010/03/10/video-of-the-week-we-have-to-pass-the-bill-so-you-can-find-out-what-is-in-it/) ...
This gentleman, former neurosurgeon Dr. Ben Carson, sums it up about as well as I've heard anyone say it:
LNTuIxLXAo8
Dr. Ben Carson, a neurosurgeon-turned-conservative-activis­t, said Obamacare is the "worst thing" to happen to America since slavery, because "it is making all of us subservient to the government."

[jagman]

Dr. Ben Carson, a neurosurgeon-turned-conservative-activis­t, said Obamacare is the "worst thing" to happen to America since slavery, because "it is making all of us subservient to the government."

After Dr.Carson spoke out against Obamacare he was audited by the IRS.

[ThePythonicCow]

After Dr.Carson spoke out against Obamacare he was audited by the IRS.
Dang ... the bastards ... Dr. Ben Carson Believes IRS Audit Tied To His Politics (http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2013/10/04/ulterior-motives-dr-ben-carson-thinks-irs-audit-tied-to-his-politics/)

[ThePythonicCow]

Mike Adams has an update on this story, with more explanation of the software problems that our US Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) faces with Obamacare: Media admits: if Obamacare isn't fixed in one month, 'panic' will ensue (http://www.naturalnews.com/042445_Obamacare_bug_fixes_panic.html).

[araucaria]

Whenever US health care comes up, I have difficulty understanding what is going on. As far as I can see, Obamacare was designed to provide a kind of social security we have had in Europe since 1945. Here again, the idea that 59-year-olds don’t blow a lump sum so that you get still draw a pension at 97 and beyond is seen as the principle behind any mutual providential fund. Granted, we may be paying too much when they tell us the system is going broke, but to me the principle seems a sound one.

That's what ObamaCare was sold as, yes.

What it actually is we are still learning. The Speaker of the House at the time it was passed, Nancy Pelosi, famously said that "We have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it" (http://blog.heritage.org/2010/03/10/video-of-the-week-we-have-to-pass-the-bill-so-you-can-find-out-what-is-in-it/) ...
This gentleman, former neurosurgeon Dr. Ben Carson, sums it up about as well as I've heard anyone say it:
LNTuIxLXAo8
Dr. Ben Carson, a neurosurgeon-turned-conservative-activis­t, said Obamacare is the "worst thing" to happen to America since slavery, because "it is making all of us subservient to the government."
This guy may well be right on the subject of Obamacare, I don't know enough to have an opinion. But spouting "socialism" as a dirty word is definitely not the way to go. Many ideas shared on Avalon are socialist in nature, if not downright communist - but in the true sense of those terms, as opposed to the caricatures of them that we have seen so far. "Vladimir Lenin", "socialism", "communism", he says, as if he need say no more. To that extent, this is empty rhetoric, not reasoned argument. We need to do better than that.

[ThePythonicCow]

This guy may well be right on the subject of Obamacare, I don't know enough to have an opinion. But spouting "socialism" as a dirty word is definitely not the way to go. Many ideas shared on Avalon are socialist in nature, if not downright communist - but in the true sense of those terms, as opposed to the caricatures of them that we have seen so far. "Vladimir Lenin", "socialism", "communism", he says, as if he need say no more. To that extent, this is empty rhetoric, not reasoned argument. We need to do better than that.

Eh ... he was making a speech for a general audience of conservative Americans still listening to main stream media. Just because he uses some words as caricatures rather than in what you consider to be the true sense of those words ... is not, in my view, sufficient reason to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The core point of his message may remain valid, even if clothed in a caricatured ideology that you find unenlightened.

:).

[araucaria]

This guy may well be right on the subject of Obamacare, I don't know enough to have an opinion. But spouting "socialism" as a dirty word is definitely not the way to go. Many ideas shared on Avalon are socialist in nature, if not downright communist - but in the true sense of those terms, as opposed to the caricatures of them that we have seen so far. "Vladimir Lenin", "socialism", "communism", he says, as if he need say no more. To that extent, this is empty rhetoric, not reasoned argument. We need to do better than that.

Eh ... he was making a speech for a general audience of conservative Americans still listening to main stream media. Just because he uses some words as caricatures rather than in what you consider to be the true sense of those words ... is not, in my view, sufficient reason to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The core point of his message may remain valid, even if clothed in a caricatured ideology that you find unenlightened.

:).
Sure Paul, but I am wary of a guy who would have signed up for Bushcare were the other guy still in office. He is agreeing with your point, but he is hardly your mouthpiece on the MSM. Is there any leverage to be gained from this?

[Flash]

Araucaria (your avatar name makes me dyslexic, I always misplace the As and have to correct), I don't know if you had the chance to live near/with Americans. They perceive socialism in a very different light than Europeans do. Communism literally equals the devil, literally, while socialism is Lucifer, literally.

You are here in the beief into a hard core Capitalism and uncontrolled corporate powers being the outmost discovery of the last 5 milleniums. Nothing else can be right, everything else, mostly socialism, will ruin this capitalism sanctity.

When I told some Americans, years ago (I mean someting like 20) that Canada was in fact socialist, an open system of capitalism mixed with socialism, if eyes would kill I would be dead. They just could not believe any of this. I started giving the health care as an example, then all kind of social protections, and yet, they would argue with me. Not because they could not have the intelligence to understand, but because it was going against one of their biggest paradigm, namely a Capitalist country, like Canada, being in fact socialist in its approach to citizenry. It did not drive together for them. Cannot exist nor succeed.

From there, you understand that Obamacare had to be given somewhat to corporations (namely insurance companies here) to have a slight chance to be accepted by the conservatives, that higher education is unaffordable - certainly not public like in France, because universities are corporate bodies having the right and dutie to make money, that food stamps are food stamps, not a coherent systems covering a whole set of needs for the poorest, because in capitalism you have to do by yourself first, etc etc. America IS corporate, America is the full fledge definition of wild capitalism.

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So yes, giving a speech in USA, and naming Socialism without definition or context, is all that is needed Everybody understand this = lucifer. Only Europeans or Asians would not understand the reference.

[araucaria]

@Flash, yes I do understand, but it's always worth pointing out the gulf that separates America from the rest of the world on matters like this. We cannot allow the notion of solidarity to be thrown out of the window.

Having said that, here in France too, in addition to the current account of incoming contributions and outgoing pensions, pension funds basically rely on capital investment, involving large sums that governments like to tap into, so our system is also under attack.

[Robin]

My manager at the wildlife refuge that I work at just recently admitted to me that the computer system of the Department of the Interior (US Fish & Wildlife Service, National Park Service, Bureau of Land Management, etc.) is also experiencing glitches as well. They are having a lot of trouble communicating and there is something seriously wrong with their computer systems too.

What is going on with the government's software (Obamacare, Utah NSA supercomputers, etc.) is apparently larger and more troublesome than they are revealing to the public.

I believe that this is huge. My guess is that it is the work of the group Anonymous. Either way, this is undoubtedly causing panic and confusion among the US government.

[jagman]

John McAfee On Obamacare: "This Is A Hacker's Wet Dream"NEIL CAVUTO: What do you make [of Obamacare]? Obviously, a lot of people have been focusing on the law but not really cognizant of the privacy part of the law, and how hackers could have a field day with it. Is it that bad?

JOHN McAFEE: Oh, it is seriously bad. Somebody made a grave error, not in designing the program but in simply implementing the web aspect of it. I mean, for example, anybody can put up a web page and claim to be a broker for this system. There is no central place where I can go and say, 'Okay, here are all the legitimate brokers, the examiners for all of the states and pick and choose one.'

Instead, any hacker can put a website up, make it look extremely competitive, and because of the nature of the system, and this is health care, after all, they can ask you the most intimate questions, and you’re freely going to answer them. What’s my Social Security number? My birth date? What are my health issues?

[CROSSTALK]

McAFEE: Well, here's the problem -- it's not something software can solve. I mean, what idiot put this system out there and did not create a central depository? There should be one website, run by the government, you go to that website and then you can click on all of the agencies. This is insane. So, I will predict that the loss of income for the millions of Americans who are going to lose their identities -- I mean, you can imagine some retired lady in Utah, who has $75,000 dollars in the bank, saving her whole life, having it wiped out one day because she signed up for Obamacare. And believe me, this is going to happen millions of times. This is a hacker's wet dream. I cannot believe that they did this.

###

CAVUTO: So once the government gets up and running, and we trust it is up and running again, it not as if any of these large agencies, now health care, are any less inclined to still snoop, still hack, still encourage other hackers?

McAFEE: Of course not, they are going to continue to do this as long as we give them the power to do so. And ObamaCare itself is the loosest of all. You can imagine the type of information -- medical records, personal issues, psychological issues. I mean, the government’s going to know everything in the world about everyone very soon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqi-HXe3U0Y&feature=player_detailpage