Blood Red Skies - and glowing blue shadows

[Shannow]

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b42/akashafamily/IMG_06031.jpg

Dunno how many of you have had proper bushfires around, but blood red skies, and glowing blue shadows are the norm...blue shadows are interesting, as the diffused light fills in behind the object, and rather than a clear black shadow, it's blue...and not dark.

Fires around here started around here Wednesday morning, at the local army testing range, and have wiped out thousands of hectares (and acres), houses, businesses etc.

60MPH winds, with 90 degree wind shifts have been stretching the front in one direction, then pushing it through 90 degrees to create a massive front, which is then stretched, and another 90 degree shift makes another, exponentially increasing front.

http://www.lithgowmercury.com.au/story/1847953/mega-gallery-the-nsw-bushfires/?cs=2452

[markpierre]

Bless your heart Shannow, you must be down Sydney way? We didn't get that terrible heat up here further North.
But I was living in Melbourne on Black Saturday (09?) when half of Victoria went up in flames. Towns that were missed were picked off by the
firestorms swirling back around on them. Impossible to predict anything. 200+ people died? It came within 5 kilometers of the
warehouse I was operating at the time, and I think that was as close as it got to Melbourne. But the air was so hard to breath.
I remember that first bad day, 47 degrees (116?) with wind, when walking out the door of a non-airconditioed house
felt like walking into a convection oven. They were up in the ranges soon after, burning off underbrush. They got the message.
I feel for you. Stay safe! Kind of a cool looking sky, I must admit. Ominous.

[Shannow]

We're where the party started so to speak...

Better half took pic of the blood red moon...
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b42/akashafamily/367767f0-ad12-4f15-9a6d-667dd077451f.jpg

and the fires a couple miles away

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b42/akashafamily/PA180839.jpg

Had personally worse a number of time in being here, with the fires a lot closer. These ones are taking out people's skylights and setting fire to their floors.

[panopticon]

They reckon the weather is going to ease off a bit tomorrow which will give the firies a day to contain and back burn before the weather goes bad again on Sunday/Monday.
Good luck.
-- Pan

[panopticon]

The Australian Defence Force (ADF) are launching an investigation into whether the explosives training exercise (Shannow mentioned this in #1) it was conducting may have been a cause in the ongoing uncontrolled 'State Mine' fire which has destroyed at present over 30,000 hectares (~75000 acres) along with numerous houses, businesses and animal life.

For those interested in seeing the extent of the fires in NSW here is a link to the Rural Fire Service websites map of ongoing fires:
www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/dsp_content.cfm?cat_id=683

The ABC has a live blog (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-19/live-blog-nsw-bushfires-claim-more-than-190-homes/5033184) that shows effected areas, RFS updates and footage from the area.

Road closures are updated on the NSW RTA website:
livetraffic.rta.nsw.gov.au

From memory ABC local radio is the emergency radio station for those in the area.
http://www.abc.net.au/reception/freq/

-- Pan

[panopticon]

Anyone heard from Anchor?
He's in that area too isn't he?

[Anchor]

Anyone heard from Anchor?
He's in that area too isn't he?


All good here, just got very smoky but Lithgow is about 60-80kms East of my farm and the smoke is all from there.

The sunset and moon rise yesterday was amazing.

We drove past the Mount Victoria and Lithgow fires on Thursday when we came up from Sydney.

There are actually three big fires causing us problems at the moment, one in Mount Victoria, one in Springwood and then the Lithgow one which is by far the biggest and the reason we avoided the Bells line of road. Today the fire is along the northern side of that road and houses have been lost in the region.

Each fire is unrelated in terms of cause. Yesterday there were over 100 fire events recored on the RFS website:

http://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/dsp_content.cfm?cat_id=683

[panopticon]

All good here, just got very smoky but Lithgow is about 60-80kms East of my farm and the smoke is all from there.


Good ta hear bloke.
Look after yourself.

[Ellisa]

I'm thinking of you all up there. I have a daughter living in Sydney and she was describing the bruise-coloured cloud of bush-fire smoke that appeared in the afternoon of the worst fires. As she remarked-- once you've seen THOSE clouds you know the fire is very big indeed. I think the characteristic colour is something to do with the oil in the gum leaves- and the smell lingers too.

Personally I hate the 'bushfire sun', a glowing orange-red perfect circle of fire surrounded by the orange glow in the sky. The smoke is so thick you can look straight at it.

This time here in Victoria we've escaped- in fact it was record cold here last week, -- but it doesn't look good for summer, and it's started so ridiculously early this year.

I hope all Avalonians are OK, and no one was in the path of these latest fires.


P.S. In what possible universe could anyone have thought it was OK to do military drills etc in howling winds and high temperatures in a drought!!!

[panopticon]

Here's something I just came across (www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rq00om) that compares eligibility for emergency Social Security assistance (Australian Federal Government Disaster Recovery Payment (http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2013L01814)) under the new Government and the former one.

New Government:


Social Security (Australian Government Disaster Recovery Payment) Determination 2013 (No. 5)
Schedule 2 Circumstances in which person adversely affected
A person is adversely affected by a major disaster mentioned in Schedule 1 if:
(a) as a direct result of the disaster:
(i) the person is seriously injured; or
(ii) the person is an immediate family member of an Australian who is killed; or
(iii) the person’s principal place of residence has been destroyed or has sustained major damage; or
(b) the person is the principal carer of a child to whom paragraph (a) applies.

Former Government:



Social Security (Australian Government Disaster Recovery Payment) Determination 2013 (No. 4)
Schedule 2 Circumstances in which person adversely affected

A person is adversely affected by a major disaster mentioned in Schedule 1 if:
(a) as a direct result of the disaster:
(i) the person is seriously injured; or
(ii) the person is an immediate family member of an Australian who is killed; or
(iii) the person’s principal place of residence has been destroyed or has sustained major damage; or
(iv) the person is unable to gain access to his or her principal place of residence for at least 24 hours because:
(A) access to the place of residence is cut off; or
(B) the person is unable to leave a place affected by the disaster;
(v) the person is stranded in his or her principal place of residence for at least 24 hours, or
(b) as a result of the disaster, the person’s principal place of residence was without a particular utility service for a continuous period of 48 hours; or
c) the person is the principal carer of a child to whom paragraph (a) or (b) applies.

[Bright Garlick]

Be safe Shannow - must be terrifying for a lot of folks up in NSW. We have cool weather down south of the border in the mountains but are also gearing up for a wild fire season.

Lithgow is a nice place - as is the rest of the stretch from Katoomba to Bathurst (many childhood memories from my time living in Meadow Flat and Camden). It's sad to imagine so much of it going up in flames - although fire is a natural part of the landscape (maybe not on this scale).

It s nice to take moments out during a fire to appreciate teh natural beauty that arises. I particuarly love the renewal period after !

Be well, Bright.

[Shannow]

P.S. In what possible universe could anyone have thought it was OK to do military drills etc in howling winds and high temperatures in a drought!!!

Neighbours to the testing range believe that they were testing incendiary explosives, during a day of total fire ban, with howling winds.

The fire started, and was initially named the "Marangaroo" fire, but later renamed to State Mine fire (came close to wiping out THAT tourism site...looks like it killed ZigZag railway).

The Rural Fire Service are located straight over the road, and were denied access to the base, beign told that they could do whatever they liked from the fence...when they got in, it was gone to poo...

¤=[Post Update]=¤


All good here, just got very smoky but Lithgow is about 60-80kms East of my farm and the smoke is all from there.

G'Day, always good to meet a new neighbour.

[panopticon]

Neighbours to the testing range believe that they were testing incendiary explosives, during a day of total fire ban, with howling winds.

The fire started, and was initially named the "Marangaroo" fire, but later renamed to State Mine fire (came close to wiping out THAT tourism site...looks like it killed ZigZag railway).

The Rural Fire Service are located straight over the road, and were denied access to the base, beign told that they could do whatever they liked from the fence...when they got in, it was gone to poo...

G'day Shannow,

Bloody typical move from de fence (sorry bout the pun -- couldn't resist).
How are things in your neck of the woods today?
Just heard they've issued a leave now if not prepared order for Bell and some surrounds (http://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/dsp_more_info.cfm?CON_ID=21488&CAT_ID=684).

38000 Hectares (94000 acres) and counting just in the State Mine fire alone...
-- Pan

[Shannow]

We left town (to go to the Monster Trucks in Sydney) yesterday about lunchtime, and they were closing down Bell's Line of road (again), and the Darling Causeway, and issuing evacuation notices to Bell residents.

Came home, and the air was clear, with an acrid smell, and the firies were doing a great job backburning to the edge of town...pic here I took at 3AM, looking directly across the valley from my place. They did really well, it's smokey over there, but should be safe.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b42/akashafamily/PA200968.jpg

Town is alright, and willstay that way (our side of the valley burned earlier this year), but Bell has been evacuated again, as the breeze is climbing...

[Ellisa]

I hope all goes well this coming week--- the weather forecast is dreadful. Please be safe. I know it's said a lot in times like this, but it's true, a house can be replaced- people cannot.

[Anchor]

Unfortunately the weather is making things worse and the prognosis has deteriorated for the coming days.


The entire Blue Mountains may come under threat over the coming week if weather conditions deteriorate as predicted, the commissioner of the NSW Rural Fire Service said.

Shane Fitzsimmons said forecast conditions were ‘‘a whole new ball game’’ and authorities would force evacuations if lives were at risk.

He said fire prediction charts showed there would be a significant impact on populated areas should forecasts materialize.

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/weather/entire-blue-mountains-area-could-come-under-threat-rfs-20131020-2vujz.html

[panopticon]

Alex Chesser from the RFS said to the ABC (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-20/nsw-fires-live-coverage-sunday/5033730):


The weather will deteriorate into the afternoon, and traditionally it will reverse and become cooler as we move into the evening. The real threat remains in the next few days, and we will be having deteriorating weather from tomorrow all the way through to Wednesday.

The message to the people out there is quite simple - we will not be able to contain the fires before the onset of this weather.

People need to understand the risk is very real and they need to make appropriate decisions now, while there is still time, rather than leaving them and having to make them when you are threatened by fire.

There will not be enough fire trucks to attend every home and people need to understand and plan appropriately.

Not good news for the coming days.

[Hazel]

Sending best wishes and energy for safety to everyone effected...
have been close to two large bushfires in my time in Victoria and those sights and smells never leave you

a primal switch is thrown at such times thats for certain...
and we get to feel keenly the importance of family and community

H.

[panopticon]

The strong winds that were predicted for today didn't eventuate and containment and protection operations are going to continue tonight and tomorrow. There are some pretty serious predictions for Wednesday and the threat of a 'Mega-fire' developing but we'll wait and see what happens.

Good on the NSW Rural Fire Service firies for the job they are doing. Sometimes it's easy to forget they're mostly volunteers who are not only putting themselves in harms way but also taking time off from their business, work, farm etc.

In actual fact thanks to all the volunteer firies and their families.
You're bloody bonza.
-- Pan

[Anchor]

Barry O'Farrell declared a 30 day state of emergency in NSW yesterday. This purportedly over-rides a persons sovereign right to stay and defend against all advice to leave; now they can forcibly evict you and demolish property if they think it is necessary.

Given how many messages have been sent to people telling them of impending doom that have turned out to be wrong, (my wife got a call from our rental in the western suburbs, nowhere near any fronts or danger on Thursday and I got a text message - my opinion of these powers is somewhat worrisome.

I know this is off-topic, but it is tangentially related to the over-officiousness we are seeing - today we were coming out of Bunnings (yes really Bunnings) and the lady on the door asked to look in my wife's handbag! Mrs A was starting to tear into the Bunning's lady saying "what are you suspicious off - you are accusing me of theft etc". I pitched in saying ladies lets not argue, here is what is going to happen:

1) I am not going to let you look in my Wife's handbag
2) We are going to leave
3) If you have a problem or think we have stolen anything then please say so now and call the police. We will wait for them.... No? Ok, thanks, bye then.

It annoys me but wow even at Bunnings! I feel sorry for the people in Bunnings that are made to do these ridiculous things. The irony is, one of the things I bought was a $60 impact socket set - I had to get a staff member unlock the holder so they could get one off the shelf for me, then I was not allowed to put it in my shopping basket, but it had to be collected from the front counter when I checked out! Couldn't have stolen it in my wife's handbag even if I had tried. Sorry for the rant.

[Carmen]

I have a question Anchor. Taking into consideration how vulnerable Australia is to bush fires why don't people have under grounds to escape from them? Or do some people? I do know of a Ramtha student in Aus who saved himself from a fire by going into his underground shelter. People must get very tired of being wiped out by bush fires!

So pleased to hear that your are safe.

[Shannow]

Yep, and scipione talking bout the new "powers" that his police and their "paramilitary" uniforms...that bloke is a serious stooge, and represents everything that is broken with the system.

Perhaps they could paint one of their TRG water blast tankers orange and send it out to do something somewhere.

Someone kicked in my car door a few months ago, and the "paramilitary clad" orifice was more interested in defecting my car for a hanging mudflap (DUI motorbike rider took that off), than finding who kicked car door in...wheels within wheels in NSW Police Farce.

[Anchor]

I have a question Anchor. Taking into consideration how vulnerable Australia is to bush fires why don't people have under grounds to escape from them? Or do some people? I do know of a Ramtha student in Aus who saved himself from a fire by going into his underground shelter. People must get very tired of being wiped out by bush fires.

Some do, and I have seen magazines with instructions on how to build them. Not everywhere is at risk of bushfire. I am rural, and there is a fire risk, but it is a different kind - long grass basically - so you need animals to eat it or just spend time cutting it down - and you keep everything around the buildings short (helps with snakes too, they prefer longer grass) - I take no chances - there is a 20m band of short grass round my place - and my olive groves are kept mown short.

It is quite possible to make a bush fire zoned property almost totally fireproof - it takes a lot of effort though and you need to be in a place where you can cut down trees and do earthworks. Before I settled on a farm in a rural zone, I was considering buying a place in the blue mountains - and that is why I was doing the research on fire defenses.

[apokalypse]

i wonder is it bushfire or coverup for something else....today outside have abit of mist. Yesterday my family member said the sky was full on red which she never seen it before...

[Anchor]

i wonder is it bushfire or coverup for something else....today outside have abit of mist.

I dont think so, I think its one tragic screw up after another.

Springwood was people not trimming trees when told to do so, resulting in a power cable arcing.

Lithgow ("State mine fire") was the australian defence force being derps and doing incendiary training on a total fire-ban day and not letting the fire trucks go on the base to deal with it.

Not sure how Mount Victoria got started.

What happens next is pretty much up to Gaia (and us collectively - possibly there is a tug of war here, the fires are so erratic - it is like they are being pulled in different directions ).

They could all join into a big super fire and basically clean off a massive part of the mountain; or they can all get contained and extinguished.

There Pro's and con's of each. All the Aussies know that bush does need to burn from time to time. Some of the fauna is adapted to fire and the seeds either can't be released or some cant germinate until a fire comes.

I want the path to be taken that permits Gaia to vent off some of her pent up heat, but in a way that inconveniences the the fewest possible number of living things and for any suffering to be as little as possible.

Also, selfishly, I would prefer it if the Great Western Highway could remain open ;)

[Shannow]

Some do, and I have seen magazines with instructions on how to build them. Not everywhere is at risk of bushfire. I am rural, and there is a fire risk, but it is a different kind - long grass basically - so you need animals to eat it or just spend time cutting it down - and you keep everything around the buildings short (helps with snakes too, they prefer longer grass) - I take no chances - there is a 20m band of short grass round my place - and my olive groves are kept mown short.

It is quite possible to make a bush fire zoned property almost totally fireproof - it takes a lot of effort though and you need to be in a place where you can cut down trees and do earthworks. Before I settled on a farm in a rural zone, I was considering buying a place in the blue mountains - and that is why I was doing the research on fire defenses.

Talking to some fireies at the pub last night, zoning laws changed since the Victorian fires that now allow underground bunkers to be built, but only a couple have...maybe I need a business venture...

As to making a place fireproof, two trucks were going to be evacuated (by chopper, leaving the trucks to burn), when they found a household who were refusing to leave, claiming that they were set up with tanks, pool, pumps, chainsaws, blah blah. They did an assessment, and called off the chopper, beleiving that the family truly were equipped, and decided to camp with them...successfully, and made a new track out.

Army has admitted that the "State Mine" fire started on the Maranagaroo base, AND that they were live firing explosives, but claim that's not proof that they started it...

Had a few sprinklings of rain overnight and this morning...naturally the media are saying that it's not helping, but even if it takes down the smoke/ash, it's worth it.

[Ellisa]

The rules on evacuation are completely different in NSW and Vic. Here in Vic you are advised to leave and allowed to make the decision yourself-- but the CFA will not come and get you if you refuse to move. In NSW they are threatening to remove by force we are told. The idea in Vic came about when it was realised you cannot make people leave, they will physically fight and also they further danger themselves sneaking back home etc and ,also, having removed the people who could save the property the govt could be sued if the house burned down It is interesting to see that the two govts have such different ideas. Perhaps the Blue Mountain terrain is different to Victorian terrain (though I don't think so).

It is cold and pouring with rain here in the south today. Perhaps, if things go as usual weather-wise, you will get this rain in NSW. I hope so with all my heart. Stay strong!

[panopticon]

I have a question Anchor. Taking into consideration how vulnerable Australia is to bush fires why don't people have under grounds to escape from them? Or do some people? I do know of a Ramtha student in Aus who saved himself from a fire by going into his underground shelter. People must get very tired of being wiped out by bush fires!

So pleased to hear that your are safe.

G'day Carmen,

There are a lot of different factors that come into play with underground fire shelters/bunkers.

First is deciding on the depth a shelter needs to be below surface to mitigate radiant heat (ie you don't want to be cooked).

Then there is the need for a separate air supply (re-cycled) to minimise the risk of suffocation from smoke and oxygen depletion.

These are big decisions and can be huge costs to house holders. Most people think "It will never happen to me" and don't look at this until it is after they've been burnt out. Then there are council restrictions on what a person can or can't do on "their" land. I don't understand why underground houses aren't more popular in general in Australia as they reduce the cost of heating/cooling, provide an area for food production (on the "roof") and reduce visual impact on the environment. This is especially the case in mountainous areas where there is little risk of flood damage. Councils can be a big barrier to both underground and bermed designs but gradually they are relenting and new by-laws have been introduced in many areas.

In regards to the state of emergency declared in NSW.

I agree that it could be used by the Government and its lackies for nefarious purposes however (and it's a big however) the vast majority of the people who are on the ground fighting these fires and risking their lives are just average Australians. They are doing what they do because they want to help their community cope with these situations. They are not out to be "agents of the state" and what this does is allows them to assess a situation and protect people who are not prepared.

I'd love it if everyone was truly prepared, had done due diligence and gone above and beyond in their preparations but truthfully most people aren't prepared for a 30 foot wall of flames coming at them. Not physically, nor psychologically. They enter into shock and move on automatic pilot.

Imagine being a volunteer and helping someone defend their house. The fire gets out of control and you know you have to leave. Telling the owners of that house "it's time to go" and them saying "no we'll be right". You know they aren't prepared. You know they are at risk. You leave. You find out later they died from smoke inhalation while sheltering in their bathroom.

Most of the people defending against these fires are just like you and me.

They aren't psychopaths. They would be devastated and it would haunt them for the rest of their lives.
-- Pan

[Anchor]

It is raining. Its been raining off and on for the last few hours here. I hope some of this rain (about 5mm in the last 14hrs or so) has made it over the fires.

[panopticon]

It is raining. Its been raining off and on for the last few hours here. I hope some of this rain (about 5mm in the last 14hrs or so) has made it over the fires.

How are the winds bloke?
I read that there had been about 7mm in Leura but that the winds had picked up.

[Anchor]

It is raining. Its been raining off and on for the last few hours here. I hope some of this rain (about 5mm in the last 14hrs or so) has made it over the fires.

How are the winds bloke?
I read that there had been about 7mm in Leura but that the winds had picked up.

Where I am (Central Tablelands) the winds are calm. I think the big winds were in SA earlier - not heard of any in NSW.

[panopticon]

Winds are reported as gusting up to 85 kph in some areas leading to a risk of spotting and ember attack (as seen in the Stockrington Road fire near Minmi (www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/dsp_content.cfm?cat_id=684) that started a few hours ago).

There are conflicting reports on the rain overnight.
In general it seems that the rain lowered the incidence of spotting early in the day but also hindered backburn containment measures.
The lightning strikes that accompanied the thunder storms may have sparked remote areas in national parks.

The conditions vary across the region but in general the heat over the next few hours from the wind coming in over land will dissipate into the evening with the anticipation of cooler weather coming in from the south west.

The next few hours are the ones to watch.

No rain is anticipated in the area for at least the next four days (out to a week) however lower temperatures will assist in containing the fire edge.

These fires will continue to burn for months and only a real good downpour will finish it. One major fire in Tassie earlier this year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Tasmanian_bushfires) was caused by a smouldering stump which was thought to have gone out 2 months earlier.

I came across this video on Youtube from the cab of a fire truck attending the Munmorah fire earlier this week (not the best quality footage) showing how dangerous these fires can be:

MQJT6QDzFf8

[Anchor]

Some good news


6:00pm: For the first time today, the Commissioner of the RFS, Shane Fitzsimmons looked visibly relieved, reports Sarah Whyte from RFS Headquarters.

"The threat to the Blue Mountains has been averted today," he said triumphantly at the 5.30pm press conference.

After a day of aggressive back burning and strategic planning, particularly in the Grose Valley, not one property was lost.The strategies had paid off, he said.

"To see that fire hold is still extraordinary," the commissioner said.

"It is absolutely wonderful it did not run."

The commissioner said it was likely residents evacuated from the Blue Mountains would be able to return tonight.

I have NO DOUBT that the intention work done on this forum contributed to this result - combined as it was with so much from other sources.

[Shannow]

I have NO DOUBT that the intention work done on this forum contributed to this result - combined as it was with so much from other sources.

Agreed...you could almost feel the atmosphere shifting from an almost "electric" fear to "peace" (both for want of better language) in the early hours of the morning.

[panopticon]

Statement from the NSW Rural Fire Service reads:


Investigations by NSW RFS fire investigators have determined the State Mine fire near Lithgow was started as a result of live ordnance exercises on Marrangaroo Army Range.

The fire started on Wednesday 16 October 2013. There were no total fire bans at the time.
(Source (www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/dsp_more_info_latest.cfm?CON_ID=21573))

Statement from Defence in relation to the above:


Defence is aware the NSW Rural Fire Service is of the view, that the cause of the State Mine Fire near Lithgow was as a result of a Defence live ordnance exercise at Marangaroo Training Area.

As Defence stated in a media release on Saturday 19 October 2013, Defence personnel were conducting an explosive ordnance training activity at Marangaroo on 16 October, the same day the State Mine Fire started.

Defence continues to cooperate fully with NSW authorities investigating the State Mine Fire, including NSW Police Force investigators who will prepare a report for the Coroner outlining the full circumstances surrounding the fire.

Defence is also conducting an inquiry into the circumstances surrounding this explosive ordnance training activity.

Our thoughts are with everyone currently affected by the fires burning in NSW, particularly those who have had properties lost or damaged in the State Mine Fire.
(Source (news.defence.gov.au/2013/10/23/defence-statement-regarding-state-mine-fire-near-lithgow-nsw/))
-- Pan

[Shannow]

1EAp_NhbF68

When drones are used for good !!!

[Anchor]

Wow, Shannow nice find, that video is amazing - so well produced and the music is so right


Music by Pavel Chesnokov "We Praise Thee"
See Rippit for Drone Camera Platform Hardware
https://www.rippit.com/


Top Comments:

feckdrinkgirls

Haunting FPV, expert piloting, worthy of the national archives. Truly a piece of Australian cinema for the ages. I hope emergency services can see the potential uses for skilled FPV pilots in future emergencies, it'd be nice if something good came of this.

[Agape]

It just reminded me of Bodhgaya 2002 and the Spaceship event, the blazing red sky there . Flashes of light and the whole tragedy .

There is just too many events, news, people , on forum, internet, elsewhere, not easy to proceed all at the same time .

People screaming from all corners of the world ..send me some prayers, send me light, send us love, send us money, help ..

it's turning crazy this world .


Bodhgaya 2003 .. we saw the oil rigs burning in Iraq , after they were bombarded , it went on BBC 24/7 , there was only one small TV in the reception office but everyone stopped by to see it . It was equally horrid . Those wars seem to have taking no end.