Is the white light after we die a trap?

[Hervé]

Anyway, my # 60 post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68916-Don-t-go-into-the-light-Simon-Parkes&p=803283&viewfull=1#post803283) on "Earth-side" and "Space-side" intelligences was an introduction to this:


Back at work, Axel gave me Moon coordinates, each set representing specific locations on the Moon’s surface. At some of the locations there seemed to be nothing to see except Moonscapes. But at others locations? - well, there were confusions, and I perceived a lot that I could not understand at all. I made a lot of sketches, identifying them as this or that, or looking like something else.

Without comments, Axelrod quickly took possession of each sketch, and I was never to see them again.

I found towers, machinery, lights of different colors, strange -looking “buildings.” I found bridges whose function I couldn’t figure out. One of them just arched out - and never landed anywhere. There were a lot of domes of various sizes, round things, things like small saucers with windows. These were stored next to crater sides, sometimes in caves, sometimes in what looked like airfield hangars. I had problems estimating sizes. But some of the “things” were very large. I found long tube-like things, machinery-tractor-like things going up and down hills, straight roads extending some miles, obelisks which had no apparent function.

There were large platforms on domes, large cross-like structures. Holes being dug into crater walls and floors obviously having to do with some kind of mining or earth-moving operations. There were “nets” over craters, “houses” in which someone obviously lived, except that I couldn’t see who - save in one case. In THAT case, I saw some kind of people busy at work on something I could not figure out. The place was dark. The “air" was filled with a fine dust, and there was some kind of illumination - like a dark lime-green fog or mist.

The thing about them was that they either were human or looked exactly like us - but they were all males, as I could well see since they were all butt-ass naked. I had absolutely no idea why. They seemed to be digging into a hillside or a cliff. As I described,

“They must have some way of creating a good environment, warm and with air in it. But why would they be going around naked?”

No answer was forthcoming to this self-question.

But being there in my psychic state, as I felt I was, some of those guys started talking excitedly and gesticulating. Two of them pointed in my “direction.” Immediately I felt like “running away” and hiding, which I guess I psychically did, since I “lost” sight of this particular imaging.

“I think they have spotted me, Axel. They were pointing at me I think. How could they do that... unless..., they have some kind of high psychic perceptions, too?”

Axel said in a calm, low voice, so low I hardly heard it at first.

“Please quickly come away from that place.”

My eyes were wide as understanding drained in,

“You already know they are psychic, don’t you?”

Axel raised his eyebrows and gave a deep sigh. And, at that point, he abruptly closed his folders,
“I think we had better end our work here.”

I was quite surprised. But I had not fallen of the psychic truck just yesterday.

“You think, you already KNOW, that they have some kind of, uh, telepathy - that they can trace where this psychic probe is coming from? Is that it?”

Axel had started smiling again, but obviously was not going to respond, “Come on, Axel, loosen up a little.” But I was not to be deterred.

“Would they kill an Earth-psychic if they felt he or she was good enough to spy on them?”

“There is no conclusive evidence to suggest that,” Axel responded. I gritted my teeth.

“No ‘conclusive’ evidence! What the hell does THAT mean?”

My voice had climbed several octaves.

“It’s very difficult for us to assess any of this," Axelrod began. “We don’t know, but that they do have things and capabilities we here are trying to understand is very apparent. Whether they spotted you or not will be unclear, but we have to put no prejudgments on what guides our mission.

“At any rate, we don’t want to put you to any more risk. Let’s eat some dinner, and then get you back to New York.

“I’m afraid we have to repeat the process used to get you out of here. I hope you don’t mind. We are very grateful.”

“RISK!!! What do you mean by RISK?”

I could see that Axelrod was prepared to be noncommittal. So I took the initiative.

“If it’s telepathy, then it’s a different kind, at least from how it is understood here on Earth. It’s NOT just telepathy, either.”

THIS got his attention. He looked at me in surprise.

“What do you mean?"

At this, I FINALLY comprehended that his earlier interest in telepathy had not been just innocent chit-chat.

“Well, I don’t know exactly. It’s more than just mind-to-mind. It’s like, well...”. I was grasping for words.

“Well, when they ‘saw’ me, they couldn’t really see me, could they? What, then were they seeing? I’m asking myself this, Axel?”

“Yes, go on,” he said.

“Well, it’s more like they were..."

FEELING rather than seeing or picking up on mind vibes. It’s more like it was, yes, sort of a dimensional thing - rather, sort of like a ripple in some kind of cross-dimensionality. Yes! That’s it! They FELT something. Not particularly ME. But SOMETHING.

I paused:

“And! THEY knew what the ripple meant. Like a sort of penetration of where they were.” I paused, then said in a self-introspecting way: “WOW!”

Axelrod sat quietly, as was his way, looking at me. Then: “Why did you say WOW?”

“Ah! Well, if I can articulate it, ...it was like there is a sort of... cross-dimensional... Well, if you can imagine that you feel a presence but can’t see it, it was something like that.

“Only those guys... they were going to hone in on it, at least that’s the best way to describe it.”

Axelrod was silent for a moment. “So, you are referring to telepathy plus something else?

“No, not exactly. Perhaps SOMETHING ELSE plus telepathy. It’s the other way around. After all, the basis for telepathy has to come from something - rather, because of something.”

“What do you mean?”

“Well, nothing happens all by itself. There are always processes involved. This is to say, things happen by way of something. Nothing comes out of thin air. It’s hard to articulate in simple three-dimensional terms, Mind-to-mind is a three-dimensional construct. But what if...“

Axelrod interrupted. “Why would mind-to-mind be a three dimensional...?”

“Well, one mind existing as a three-dimensional thing communicating with another which is also a three-dimensional thing, and the communicating across the distance... is not the distance involved conceived of in three-dimensional terms?

“The PHYSICAL universe is three-dimensional - not the mental universe. Here is one of the big flaws in all theories about Psi. Everyone thinks of Psi ONLY in three-dimensional terms.”

I ran out of words at this point.

I guess that, with the above, I may also be the only one to see that a disembodied human can be easily spotted and ready for the taking by those "Out-There Guys," even when "surprised."

From there to setting "white light" traps to prevent eying astral tourists from reporting strange space on goings is nothing for space-farers having mastered "telepathy" and its electromagnatic make up.

[greybeard]

Re post 59
Limor I agree that it is important to look at this and that and cross check where possible.

My age has something to do with my current way of perceiving things.

In my teens I went through Jules Verne--all the science fiction I could find, Chariot of the Gods, not fiction.
Some bizarre and scary stuff too.
I had a lot of fear and some panic attacks which may or may not be related to some of my beliefs of that time.
Eventually there was full blown alcoholism to contend with and all that goes with that.
To the good that started the spiritual quest.

When I look at some new information I tend to say " Does this benefit my life now? Is it based on fear--lead to fear or just valid information?
If its a positive influence (thats a personal thing) then I keep it. If I dont feel right about it I let it go.)

I do believe in extra terrestrials, science and spirituality linked.
The whole universe and everything in it pulses in and out of existence a zillion times every second.
Now that's some thing to ponder.

Why worry about what happens after the death of the body when you dont know what you are?
My bag is enlightenment and having studied this for years I find that the teachers focus only on "Find out what you are and all questions then are irrelevant--find out who is asking the questions"

So assuming you become enlightened, then, the white light is irrelevant--and--you are not coming back to this university.

Chris

[Delight]

It's been discussed and will be discussed here yet many times and I'd encourage everyone disrespective of their religious backgrounds to get own copy of the Bardo Thodrol for full explanation about the process of dying, visions and lights you may experience . While living or leaving this state of human existence .



Hallo agape, thank you for your post, which gives me an opportunity to say something about the Bardo Thodol.
We are discussing here the different Lights that can be seen at the moment of transition and their 'realms' they could lead to, which by many is seen as fear mongering.


I appreciate the information from you and Agape.
I think this thread contributes reassurance in a way that it is very useful.
In reading about the Bardo Thodol, I notice something.
In every case it is the individual who cannot see the light or hides from the light or refuses the light.
How convenient then to have a bunch of muggers rip off travelers of their confidence?
But again, it is up to the individual to discern. There are no irrevocable events in the path but repetition gets stale. We are at a pivotal moment in our own lives when we cross the Liminal threshold. If we have already cleared our obstacles and attachments we can embrace the light.

It may have been Synchronicity (love the posts) who triggered the thought, maybe the purpose is our own investigation into the realms of the mind and our own quest "Will it be this time to "go to" the light"?

I was also encouraged by Chris and Fine Feather, Christine and others.

[heyokah]

Anyway, my # 60 post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68916-Don-t-go-into-the-light-Simon-Parkes&p=803283&viewfull=1#post803283) on "Earth-side" and "Space-side" intelligences was an introduction to this:


Back at work, Axel gave me Moon coordinates, each set representing specific locations on the Moon’s surface. At some of the locations there seemed to be nothing to see except Moonscapes. But at others locations? - well, there were confusions, and I perceived a lot that I could not understand at all. I made a lot of sketches, identifying them as this or that, or looking like something else.

Without comments, Axelrod quickly took possession of each sketch, and I was never to see them again.

I found towers, machinery, lights of different colors, strange -looking “buildings.” I found bridges whose function I couldn’t figure out. One of them just arched out - and never landed anywhere. There were a lot of domes of various sizes, round things, things like small saucers with windows. These were stored next to crater sides, sometimes in caves, sometimes in what looked like airfield hangars. I had problems estimating sizes. But some of the “things” were very large. I found long tube-like things, machinery-tractor-like things going up and down hills, straight roads extending some miles, obelisks which had no apparent function.

There were large platforms on domes, large cross-like structures. Holes being dug into crater walls and floors obviously having to do with some kind of mining or earth-moving operations. There were “nets” over craters, “houses” in which someone obviously lived, except that I couldn’t see who - save in one case. In THAT case, I saw some kind of people busy at work on something I could not figure out. The place was dark. The “air" was filled with a fine dust, and there was some kind of illumination - like a dark lime-green fog or mist.

The thing about them was that they either were human or looked exactly like us - but they were all males, as I could well see since they were all butt-ass naked. I had absolutely no idea why. They seemed to be digging into a hillside or a cliff. As I described,

“They must have some way of creating a good environment, warm and with air in it. But why would they be going around naked?”

No answer was forthcoming to this self-question.

But being there in my psychic state, as I felt I was, some of those guys started talking excitedly and gesticulating. Two of them pointed in my “direction.” Immediately I felt like “running away” and hiding, which I guess I psychically did, since I “lost” sight of this particular imaging.

“I think they have spotted me, Axel. They were pointing at me I think. How could they do that... unless..., they have some kind of high psychic perceptions, too?”

Axel said in a calm, low voice, so low I hardly heard it at first.

“Please quickly come away from that place.”

My eyes were wide as understanding drained in,

“You already know they are psychic, don’t you?”

Axel raised his eyebrows and gave a deep sigh. And, at that point, he abruptly closed his folders,
“I think we had better end our work here.”

I was quite surprised. But I had not fallen of the psychic truck just yesterday.

“You think, you already KNOW, that they have some kind of, uh, telepathy - that they can trace where this psychic probe is coming from? Is that it?”

Axel had started smiling again, but obviously was not going to respond, “Come on, Axel, loosen up a little.” But I was not to be deterred.

“Would they kill an Earth-psychic if they felt he or she was good enough to spy on them?”

“There is no conclusive evidence to suggest that,” Axel responded. I gritted my teeth.

“No ‘conclusive’ evidence! What the hell does THAT mean?”

My voice had climbed several octaves.

“It’s very difficult for us to assess any of this," Axelrod began. “We don’t know, but that they do have things and capabilities we here are trying to understand is very apparent. Whether they spotted you or not will be unclear, but we have to put no prejudgments on what guides our mission.

“At any rate, we don’t want to put you to any more risk. Let’s eat some dinner, and then get you back to New York.

“I’m afraid we have to repeat the process used to get you out of here. I hope you don’t mind. We are very grateful.”

“RISK!!! What do you mean by RISK?”

I could see that Axelrod was prepared to be noncommittal. So I took the initiative.

“If it’s telepathy, then it’s a different kind, at least from how it is understood here on Earth. It’s NOT just telepathy, either.”

THIS got his attention. He looked at me in surprise.

“What do you mean?"

At this, I FINALLY comprehended that his earlier interest in telepathy had not been just innocent chit-chat.

“Well, I don’t know exactly. It’s more than just mind-to-mind. It’s like, well...”. I was grasping for words.

“Well, when they ‘saw’ me, they couldn’t really see me, could they? What, then were they seeing? I’m asking myself this, Axel?”

“Yes, go on,” he said.

“Well, it’s more like they were..."

FEELING rather than seeing or picking up on mind vibes. It’s more like it was, yes, sort of a dimensional thing - rather, sort of like a ripple in some kind of cross-dimensionality. Yes! That’s it! They FELT something. Not particularly ME. But SOMETHING.

I paused:

“And! THEY knew what the ripple meant. Like a sort of penetration of where they were.” I paused, then said in a self-introspecting way: “WOW!”

Axelrod sat quietly, as was his way, looking at me. Then: “Why did you say WOW?”

“Ah! Well, if I can articulate it, ...it was like there is a sort of... cross-dimensional... Well, if you can imagine that you feel a presence but can’t see it, it was something like that.

“Only those guys... they were going to hone in on it, at least that’s the best way to describe it.”

Axelrod was silent for a moment. “So, you are referring to telepathy plus something else?

“No, not exactly. Perhaps SOMETHING ELSE plus telepathy. It’s the other way around. After all, the basis for telepathy has to come from something - rather, because of something.”

“What do you mean?”

“Well, nothing happens all by itself. There are always processes involved. This is to say, things happen by way of something. Nothing comes out of thin air. It’s hard to articulate in simple three-dimensional terms, Mind-to-mind is a three-dimensional construct. But what if...“

Axelrod interrupted. “Why would mind-to-mind be a three dimensional...?”

“Well, one mind existing as a three-dimensional thing communicating with another which is also a three-dimensional thing, and the communicating across the distance... is not the distance involved conceived of in three-dimensional terms?

“The PHYSICAL universe is three-dimensional - not the mental universe. Here is one of the big flaws in all theories about Psi. Everyone thinks of Psi ONLY in three-dimensional terms.”

I ran out of words at this point.

I guess that, with the above, I may also be the only one to see that a disembodied human can be easily spotted and ready for the taking by those "Out-There Guys," even when "surprised."

From there to setting "white light" traps to prevent eying astral tourists from reporting strange space on goings is nothing for space-farers having mastered "telepathy" and its electromagnatic make up.


Is this drivel above now an example of derailing a thread ?

[heyokah]

Double post.
That's what you get from drivel :becky:

[onawah]

Name calling? I'm surprised and disappointed to see this here.
Simon Se-krap has it back to front.
There is so much positive evidence regarding NDE.
In particular the brain surgeon Eben Alexander's turn around regarding what happens in the brain in NDE.
Oh well we will find out soon enough.

Chris

[Delight]

There is a strange way that pandora radio speaks to me. I turned it on just now and the U2 song "One" song was on. It all of a sudden had a message about the subject. It is a dialog. What does it mean to carry each other in the path? It is not to do for others. It is to give what is true to one another. This might be what the Buddhist calls gaining merit?

If there is anything to the archon story it is that without a connection to love, we are left with the splintered mind. Without a personal reference to truth (and the mind.....can there be truth there or just stories), we cannot know what is real.

I am sure that PA and other places have proportions of intention from those who pass on information. If there is anything to be learned about all "churches", they are a group mind that seeks perpetutation of itself. One could say like Vadim Zeland that the thoughtforms create pendulums that seek to engage us in perpetuating them.

meditation is the deliberate expansion of being "mindless" with the presence of self in an emptiness. Can one stand in the empty space? The promise of meditation is that when one stands in the presence of SELF, one is renewed. It becomes a truth.

In the meantime, we are one but we are not the same. There can be disappointment if one seeks others out for the truth. They may not have it themselves but they cannot have it for you. They could give you the taste of their truth. They may intend you retain you small self allegiance to the mind because that is all they know is possible. Knowledge is telling me that all presentations come as projections from the mind filtered by awareness. My heart says reconnection with the light is all about doing that <NOW>

This song says to me: Maggie, you know you won't EVER feel better in the fractured place where there still will be someone to blame. I will pray and meditate in the harmlessness zone.

Is it getting better?
Or do you feel the same?
Will it make it easier on you now?
You got someone to blame
You say...

One love
One life
When it's one need
In the night

One love
We get to share it
Leaves you baby if you
Don't care for it

Did I disappoint you?
Or leave a bad taste in your mouth?
You act like you never had love
And you want me to go without?
Well it's...

Too late
Tonight
To drag the past out into the light

We're one, but we're not the same
We get to
Carry each other
Carry each other
One...

Have you come here for forgiveness?
Have you come to raise the dead?
Have you come here to play Jesus
To the lepers in your head?

Did I ask too much?
More than a lot
You gave me nothing
Now it's all I got

We're one
But we're not the same
Will we
Hurt each other
Then we do it again

You say
Love is a temple
Love a higher law
Love is a temple
Love the higher law

You ask me to enter
But then you make me crawl
And I can't be holding on
To what you got
When all you got is hurt

One love
One blood
One life
You got to do what you should

One life
With each other
Sisters
Brothers

One life
But we're not the same
We get to
Carry each other
Carry each other

One... life

One

lWdG8NoFXY0

[Synchronicity]

Isn't it interesting and lovely how we each get messages different ways? Some see, some hear, some hear on the radio, some just know, some feel, some feel touch, some smell, some combinations of the above. I am always fascinated when people get song messages! And the song was appropriate indeed!

[greybeard]

I just reversed the letters on the surname and then put, has got it back to front, --it was tongue in cheek--not name calling really.
Im sorry if that is found to be offensive.

Chris

Edited to remove reference to a persons statement.

[eaglespirit]

Well...I don't post much here or there anymore.
I have said it all in some way, shape or form here on this forum through the years, i-m-h-opinions!

Simply get as many of Your "Forgive Me, I'm Sorry, Thank You, I Love You's" taken care of in this life,
here and now,
and when You pass-on know now that You Will have the Purest Love in Your Heart and Head for Home...
YOU Are the Higher Pilot!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2kaUn0iskQk/UJk9vKvPEmI/AAAAAAAAAEM/lepWQtyCSHk/s1600/cometison.jpg

[TrumanCash]

This has been discussed on similar threads, but for those who are not aware of my experiences with this phenomenon, I will comment again here.

Not everyone "goes to the light" at body death. I have recovered several in-between life experiences vis-a-vis this planet of going toward the light at the end of tunnel.

This is, from our perspective as Earthbound humans, some incredibly high technology. What is at the end of the tunnel is nothing more than an implantation mothership. My take on the tunnel is that it is a kind of vortex or wormhole. Not being a physicist I cannot accurately describe the technology.

Simon Parkes uses the word "processing" instead of implant. He said that they are automated but also manned by Grays. However, in my experiences with these implanting stations it is the Mantids who are running the show. They disguise themselves as glowing beings. It is a deception. They implant false realities via what can best be described as telepathic hypnosis, e.g., dead relatives, etc, etc.

From my own past life memories I discovered that I was trying to stop the abductions on planet Earth over 15 thousand years ago. The Mantids apparently didn't like my interfering with their operations so they captured me nearly 12,400 years ago, implanted me in a body and set me back on Earth. Since then they have been following me lifetime to lifetime and making sure I report in to the implant station whenever I "die" in order to keep me from being a problem to their operations.

Simon has also confirmed that the Mantids not only orchestrate abductions but they also have the technology to implant a spiritual being into a body and even transfer a being from one body to another.

I am no longer at war with them as war and fighting is not a permanent, viable solution to the problem. It appears that they are implanted to be implanters and they are really stuck in that.

Mantids are in cahoots with the Grays and the human-looking bearded "gods"/ETs who have established Earth's god-worshipping religions and secret societies. In other words the Mantis beings are very instrumental in creating and maintaining war and chaos on this planet as well as operating and maintaining the artificial "reincarnation" system on this planet.

I have detailed my experiences vis-a-vis this subject in THE EYE OF RA, which anyone can download free of charge from the Avalon Project website (links below).

TLC

[Shane]

Something to consider perhaps..

Many people walking this Earth have never, or will never, create an afterlife for themselves. What I mean by this is, they do not seek truth, they do not believe in anything, they have never consciously considered (truly considered) life beyond these bodies.

They have however, been greatly influenced subconsciously. The subconscious drives many of our actions and therefor will still influence the outcome for them.

People in this case, have seen many times "the white light" - "go to the light" in their lives.

Just something to consider. It may have something to do with the initial passing experience or how we perceive it, and therefor it's potential outcome.

[observer]

For the content of observer's comment #33, click on the forwarding icon.

Once one makes the realization that a "bright new dawn" has been "just over the horizon" since the Dawn of Man, once one comes to the realization that everything Humanity has been told has been a small part of a bigger lie, only at that point will Humanity have a chance to escape these endless ass-biting eternities of birth-death-rebirth.

Everything the Mass of Humanity has been told has come in the form of artificial telepathic messages.

One possible conclusion regarding the white light being a "soul trap", would be after reviewing all the available evidence: This Particular Reality is a Feeding Operation.

They are very clever at what they do....

I would suggest Robert Morningsky is correct when he recommends that upon seeing the white light, one should "turn around and look for your own specific light".

Translated from the Greek word "Agape", a God of (Agape) Unconditional Love, is who created All There Is.

Throughout the historic record gold has been the color of Love.

From my personal understanding, I would suggest that when one turns around, one should look for the Golden Light. Reject the White Light.



One may call this "fear mongering" if one desires.

I call it an observation....

[Kalamos]

..........

[Kalamos]

..........

[Kalamos]

..........

[greybeard]

If we were limited to being just human beings I would be worried-- but we are not are we!!!
There are those that want to extend their illusory control not just in this world of duality but beyond it.
What you really are can not be confined, destroyed, captured, influenced, affected.
You are complete, perfect, beyond imagination.
The soul is eternal, beyond description.

Chris

[Jake]

This has been discussed on similar threads, but for those who are not aware of my experiences with this phenomenon, I will comment again here.

Not everyone "goes to the light" at body death. I have recovered several in-between life experiences vis-a-vis this planet of going toward the light at the end of tunnel.

This is, from our perspective as Earthbound humans, some incredibly high technology. What is at the end of the tunnel is nothing more than an implantation mothership. My take on the tunnel is that it is a kind of vortex or wormhole. Not being a physicist I cannot accurately describe the technology.

Simon Parkes uses the word "processing" instead of implant. He said that they are automated but also manned by Grays. However, in my experiences with these implanting stations it is the Mantids who are running the show. They disguise themselves as glowing beings. It is a deception. They implant false realities via what can best be described as telepathic hypnosis, e.g., dead relatives, etc, etc.

From my own past life memories I discovered that I was trying to stop the abductions on planet Earth over 15 thousand years ago. The Mantids apparently didn't like my interfering with their operations so they captured me nearly 12,400 years ago, implanted me in a body and set me back on Earth. Since then they have been following me lifetime to lifetime and making sure I report in to the implant station whenever I "die" in order to keep me from being a problem to their operations.

Simon has also confirmed that the Mantids not only orchestrate abductions but they also have the technology to implant a spiritual being into a body and even transfer a being from one body to another.

I am no longer at war with them as war and fighting is not a permanent, viable solution to the problem. It appears that they are implanted to be implanters and they are really stuck in that.

Mantids are in cahoots with the Grays and the human-looking bearded "gods"/ETs who have established Earth's god-worshipping religions and secret societies. In other words the Mantis beings are very instrumental in creating and maintaining war and chaos on this planet as well as operating and maintaining the artificial "reincarnation" system on this planet.

I have detailed my experiences vis-a-vis this subject in THE EYE OF RA, which anyone can download free of charge from the Avalon Project website (links below).

TLC

Given what is quoted above, which seems to be (I guess) corroborated by some others (all of which have their own contacts and experiences from who knows where, and with varying details, I gather) ...

If this Alien Domination 'paradigm' is true ...

What hope then do we HUMAN souls have against this oppressive force?

What is there to do as a collective to fend them off?

They seem to have an incredible power and advantage to the point of controlling everything on Earth.

Are we to just become hopeless in all of this?

Given that mankind is in this hopeless prison ...

Do we make a knowledgeable decision to go into death with this Intent to Go To Source, as is suggested, but not before spreading this hopeless story to others and recommend they do the same thing?

If this whole idea came out as a FACT to the world, everything would collapse overnight.

I mean, if our leaders are under their control, and KNOW about all this, I imagine trying to usurp them by revolution would be pointless, since the aliens could just come down and wipe us out, no? Or the governments would use their advanced weapons to control and subjugate us, no?

Are we to consider that there are good aliens who apparently have no power to save us? Are there no good guys?

I just don't get it.

Anyone want to enlighten me about this paradigm? I think this would be a fitting place to SUM UP the ideas of Simon and Truman and others who propagate this hopeless paradigm for those of us who by (perhaps a differently discerning) personal Intuition have a hard time following these stories.

What does the individual do to help themselves and others to overcome this? I just see it as hopeless right now, this 'world view' we are discussing.

----------------

On another note, I can only try and convey the idea (my personal opinion) that there is much more going on, and that the ones pointing out this current deception might be the most deceived (and in some cases, the most deceiving).

Truth Seekers are drawn to the internet in search of a Path, and they are being sidelined by these ideas, that may be orchestrated by great and confusing design, to draw people away from a proper Truth ...



... a truth might be that these side-lining tales are tied together in a current and mass deception of 'dis' and 'mis'-info, where it's difficult to get a read on persons, who as some suggest are CIA agents, Black Magicians, or just bold faced liars, people who are deluded and are playing into and along with a possible 'mass delusion' of mind and emotion ...

.. and a truth where Aliens are not as real and prevalent as we are being led to believe (if they are involved at all with us right now), but rather that Black Magic (which includes the conjuring of shape-shifting beings from another dimension [read: aliens]) on un-surveyable large and small scales is being used, along with (and perhaps in conjunction with) advanced technology in a masterful game of deception that will all come to light in our lifetimes ... and when it does we might be shocked to find out who were our true enemies and allies all along.

This is serious stuff, people. It's not enough to go lovey dubby into the night and day. Some of us have minds who depend on understanding Truth (and some of us are here to fight deception, of which all of these 'old' and 'new age' religions are part of)

A hopeless paradigm like this in the wrong soul could be death and derailment from an inspired lifetime.

Let's be certain and convicted of things before we go spreading 'the word' and making things worse for ourselves and others.

Lastly, given the fact (maybe) that we now read 'evidence' of 'agents of deception' work covertly through the internet (and through normally unseen dimensions perhaps) to derail and attack prevailing alternative theories and theorists, which I would suggest that also attack other and older 'systems of knowledge' as well ....

... I suggest that [I]everyone is suspect, and one can't be too suspicious ... even right here on Project Avalon.

And trust me, I don't trust my own motivation these days ... thanks to these ideas I come across here and there.

HenryBowen!! :) Hello again, my friend. Once again, I must applaud your passion for truth!! I can imagine that if one has not experienced the White Light during an NDE, then one would not possess the knowledge it takes to have an intelligent conversation about it. I, personally have embraced a MUCH bigger truth,, one where I can see countless life forms, on countless planets,, in countless galaxies,, in countless realities,,, ALL PART OF THE SAME FAMILY,,, yet all calling each other ALIENS... :) If one were to grasp the concept of reincarnation,, then one should be able to grasp the possibility that 'souls' are NOT confined to a single planet or existence,, it is likely that it does not matter what physical form (or alien race) the soul takes. One would reincarnate anywhere one chooses... Yet right here on planet earth,, it is clear that there is a cycle of reincarnation.. We seem to be cycling here over and over and again!!

The question of the 'White Light' during NDE becomes very relevant,,, NO?

Love to all.
Jake.

[Synchronicity]

If we were limited to being just human beings I would be worried-- but we are not are we!!!
There are those that want to extend their illusory control not just in this world of duality but beyond it.
What you really are can not be confined, destroyed, captured, influenced, affected.
You are complete, perfect, beyond imagination.
The soul is eternal, beyond description.

Chris

Well said!

[jp11]

OMG! what a profound post...I find myself saying more and more (to myself) how the hell can I be sure of anything. So many well intended people/post (I choose to believe that) and the long and short...unless I have first hand knowledge...and in light of what you just posted which I agree with and have thought that for a while, even that is suspect.

What an amazing experience this is...reading and discussing this with myself and all the while finding I'm becoming more and more at peace with it all and then choosing to live to the best of my ability in the moment with the underlying intention of being the highest of who I truly am in each moment...and at some point it will all sort itself out...or not. :)





This has been discussed on similar threads, but for those who are not aware of my experiences with this phenomenon, I will comment again here.

Not everyone "goes to the light" at body death. I have recovered several in-between life experiences vis-a-vis this planet of going toward the light at the end of tunnel.

This is, from our perspective as Earthbound humans, some incredibly high technology. What is at the end of the tunnel is nothing more than an implantation mothership. My take on the tunnel is that it is a kind of vortex or wormhole. Not being a physicist I cannot accurately describe the technology.

Simon Parkes uses the word "processing" instead of implant. He said that they are automated but also manned by Grays. However, in my experiences with these implanting stations it is the Mantids who are running the show. They disguise themselves as glowing beings. It is a deception. They implant false realities via what can best be described as telepathic hypnosis, e.g., dead relatives, etc, etc.

From my own past life memories I discovered that I was trying to stop the abductions on planet Earth over 15 thousand years ago. The Mantids apparently didn't like my interfering with their operations so they captured me nearly 12,400 years ago, implanted me in a body and set me back on Earth. Since then they have been following me lifetime to lifetime and making sure I report in to the implant station whenever I "die" in order to keep me from being a problem to their operations.

Simon has also confirmed that the Mantids not only orchestrate abductions but they also have the technology to implant a spiritual being into a body and even transfer a being from one body to another.

I am no longer at war with them as war and fighting is not a permanent, viable solution to the problem. It appears that they are implanted to be implanters and they are really stuck in that.

Mantids are in cahoots with the Grays and the human-looking bearded "gods"/ETs who have established Earth's god-worshipping religions and secret societies. In other words the Mantis beings are very instrumental in creating and maintaining war and chaos on this planet as well as operating and maintaining the artificial "reincarnation" system on this planet.

I have detailed my experiences vis-a-vis this subject in THE EYE OF RA, which anyone can download free of charge from the Avalon Project website (links below).

TLC

Given what is quoted above, which seems to be (I guess) corroborated by some others (all of which have their own contacts and experiences from who knows where, and with varying details, I gather) ...

If this Alien Domination 'paradigm' is true ...

What hope then do we HUMAN souls have against this oppressive force?

What is there to do as a collective to fend them off?

They seem to have an incredible power and advantage to the point of controlling everything on Earth.

Are we to just become hopeless in all of this?

Given that mankind is in this hopeless prison ...

Do we make a knowledgeable decision to go into death with this Intent to Go To Source, as is suggested, but not before spreading this hopeless story to others and recommend they do the same thing?

If this whole idea came out as a FACT to the world, everything would collapse overnight.

I mean, if our leaders are under their control, and KNOW about all this, I imagine trying to usurp them by revolution would be pointless, since the aliens could just come down and wipe us out, no? Or the governments would use their advanced weapons to control and subjugate us, no?

Are we to consider that there are good aliens who apparently have no power to save us? Are there no good guys?

I just don't get it.

Anyone want to enlighten me about this paradigm? I think this would be a fitting place to SUM UP the ideas of Simon and Truman and others who propagate this hopeless paradigm for those of us who by (perhaps a differently discerning) personal Intuition have a hard time following these stories.

What does the individual do to help themselves and others to overcome this? I just see it as hopeless right now, this 'world view' we are discussing.

----------------

On another note, I can only try and convey the idea (my personal opinion) that there is much more going on, and that the ones pointing out this current deception might be the most deceived (and in some cases, the most deceiving).

Truth Seekers are drawn to the internet in search of a Path, and they are being sidelined by these ideas, that may be orchestrated by great and confusing design, to draw people away from a proper Truth ...



... a truth might be that these side-lining tales are tied together in a current and mass deception of 'dis' and 'mis'-info, where it's difficult to get a read on persons, who as some suggest are CIA agents, Black Magicians, or just bold faced liars, people who are deluded and are playing into and along with a possible 'mass delusion' of mind and emotion ...

.. and a truth where Aliens are not as real and prevalent as we are being led to believe (if they are involved at all with us right now), but rather that Black Magic (which includes the conjuring of shape-shifting beings from another dimension [read: aliens]) on un-surveyable large and small scales is being used, along with (and perhaps in conjunction with) advanced technology in a masterful game of deception that will all come to light in our lifetimes ... and when it does we might be shocked to find out who were our true enemies and allies all along.

This is serious stuff, people. It's not enough to go lovey dubby into the night and day. Some of us have minds who depend on understanding Truth (and some of us are here to fight deception, of which all of these 'old' and 'new age' religions are part of)

A hopeless paradigm like this in the wrong soul could be death and derailment from an inspired lifetime.

Let's be certain and convicted of things before we go spreading 'the word' and making things worse for ourselves and others.

Lastly, given the fact (maybe) that we now read 'evidence' of 'agents of deception' work covertly through the internet (and through normally unseen dimensions perhaps) to derail and attack prevailing alternative theories and theorists, which I would suggest that also attack other and older 'systems of knowledge' as well ....

... I suggest that [I]everyone is suspect, and one can't be too suspicious ... even right here on Project Avalon.

And trust me, I don't trust my own motivation these days ... thanks to these ideas I come across here and there.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

The discussions about Earth being a prison planet, go to the light or not and much more are fascinating to me. If exploring this information leads to a place where I feel uncomfortable, it is easy for me to watch Abraham Hicks (http://www.abraham-hicks.com/lawofattractionsource/index.php) (always feels good), read ET-101 (http://www.amazon.com/E-T-101-Instruction-Emergency-Remedial/dp/0962695807) (always a great laugh), read Illusions (http://www.amazon.com/Illusions-Adventures-Reluctant-Richard-Bach/dp/0099427869/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1393707976&sr=1-1&keywords=illusions+richard+bach) (a real masterpiece), sit on my front porch and watch nature, or work on something practical that could be helpful during a financial collapse (coming to cities nearby).

What is all this fear about that some have? I think/feel that we are eternal beings playing the game as humans this time. In other lives, possibly simultaneous lives, our souls may be playing other roles, some service-to-others and some service-to-self. One thing I’m confident about is that we *all* are Prime Creator on a journey of self discovery. I can see me asking myself (in another reality) "What would happen if I did this?". Then presto, here I am, memory partially erased, staring at myself in the mirror, shouting :yell: "Don't you ever go anywhere again without a clear connection to Higher Self !!", (whatever HS is). If someone is talking to me, I've only heard it clearly and loudly a few times. Sometimes I think I'm here just to entertain Higher Self, as it smiles and says to friends "Look at what he is doing now!" :pound:

Wish I could have OBEs to prove that, but all I currently have is my rational and intuitive minds and a fascination with how reality may be constructed.

Let’s play with the questions and answers, and have as much fun with it as we can with it.

We are far more than our physical bodies, and our journeys are never done.

[RunningDeer]

The discussions about Earth being a prison planet, go to the light or not and much more are fascinating to me. If exploring this information leads to a place where I feel uncomfortable, it is easy for me to watch Abraham Hicks (http://www.abraham-hicks.com/lawofattractionsource/index.php) (always feels good), read ET-101 (http://www.amazon.com/E-T-101-Instruction-Emergency-Remedial/dp/0962695807) (always a great laugh), read Illusions (http://www.amazon.com/Illusions-Adventures-Reluctant-Richard-Bach/dp/0099427869/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1393707976&sr=1-1&keywords=illusions+richard+bach) (a real masterpiece), sit on my front porch and watch nature, or work on something practical that could be helpful during a financial collapse (coming to cities nearby).

What is all this fear about that some have? I think/feel that we are eternal beings playing the game as humans this time. In other lives, possibly simultaneous lives, our souls may be playing other roles, some service-to-others and some service-to-self. One thing I’m confident about is that we *all* are Prime Creator on a journey of self discovery. I can see me asking myself (in another reality) "What would happen if I did this?". Then presto, here I am, memory partially erased, shouting at myself in the mirror, saying "Don't you ever go anywhere again without a clear connection to Higher Self!!", (whatever that is). If someone is talking to me, I've only heard it clearly a few times. Sometimes I think I'm here just to entertain Higher Self, as it smiles and says to friends "Look at what he is doing now!"

Wish I could have OBEs to prove that, but all I currently have is my rational and intuitive minds and a fascination with how reality may be constructed.

Let’s play with the questions and answers, and have as much fun with it as we can with it.

We are far more than our physical bodies, and our journeys are never done.

Thanks, Ron. Here's a Free pdf - "E.T. 101: The Cosmic Instruction Manual for Planetary Evolution (http://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/alien.ufo/Jho,%20Zhoev%20-%20E.T.%20101-%20Complete%20manual.pdf)"

RunningDeer

[Flash]

I find this sooo interesting, this Bardo book. We could correlate almost every step of dying and what is encountered with the cosmogony of archons, reptilians, mantids, pleaiadians, etc talked about in this forum lol.

What i conclude is that we are dealing with archétypes of human on earth, the process being the same over time and groups. Are we to accept this creation of our minds or are we to look in the clear light, in which you se everything but are not blinded - the check point is "do i see everything there is or am I blinded by the light? (not the white one).






It's been discussed and will be discussed here yet many times and I'd encourage everyone disrespective of their religious backgrounds to get own copy of the Bardo Thodrol for full explanation about the process of dying, visions and lights you may experience . While living or leaving this state of human existence .



Hallo agape, thank you for your post, which gives me an opportunity to say something about the Bardo Thodol.
We are discussing here the different Lights that can be seen at the moment of transition and their 'realms' they could lead to, which by many is seen as fear mongering.

I've been a student of quite some Buddhist teachers during my life, among which Sogyal Rimpoche the pupil of Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche (http://www.lerabling.org/index.php/lang-en/sogyal-rinpoche/sogyal-rinpoches-teachers/dilgo-khyentse-rinpoche), which was my first teacher.
So I happen to be familiar with the Tibetan Book of the Dead (Bardo Thodol) and Sogyal's version, which is more suitable to the Western world, The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying.


Reading the Bardos again, I can't see much difference in, what some members would call, 'fear mongering' between the Bardos and the insights of Robert Morning Star. true
I will show you some Lights and Realms that are told to be there.... (I'm taking parts out of the text here, skipping most of the instructions as one can read them for one selves.)

****

1. The First Bardo Afterlife Realm
The first bardo comes at the very moment of death, when there dawns the Clear Light of the Ultimate Reality.
This is the very content and substance of the state of liberation, if only the soul can recognize it and act in a way to remain in that state.
The instructions intended to be read at the moment of the person's death are designed to help him do this.

a clear light, not a white light, there is a difference

Most souls, however, will fail to do this. They will be pulled down by the weight of their karma into the second stage of the first bardo, called the Secondary Clear Light seen immediately after death.

2. The Second Bardo
If the soul is still not liberated at this stage, it will descend into the second bardo, which is said to last for two weeks. The second bardo is also divided into two parts; in the first, the soul of the deceased encounters what are referred to as "the Peaceful Deities.

-On the first day of the second bardo, there appears to the soul the divine Father-Mother - that is, the supreme deity of the universe, transcending all dualities, including the division into sexes the existence in our down to earth god's cosmology of God represented as father/mother, STO lol
-On the second day, there appears the second-highest God in the Buddhist pantheon - in fact, he is actually the Second Person in the literal Buddhist Holy Trinity. The son, Jesus, positive, STO

At the same time, there dawns a smoky light from hell - the color is changing, maybe Djinns world; and here we note that, just as the Buddhist heaven is not a permanent, eternal state, neither is its hell.

Even the most wretched souls will eventually work their way out of even the deepest pit of hell, just as even the highest and purest souls will eventually lose their footing in heaven and descend again into the cycle of death and rebirth.
Liberation is the only way out.

Once again, if the soul responds to the "dazzling white light" here the white light instad of the clear one[/B]

of the second God the son, Jesus or other, met with the joy of a pure heart, he will be liberated thereby; STO, love and joy to be emanating from oneself

but if he specifically reacts with ANGER from having indulged in this vice on Earth STS anger and fear emanating from oneself, he will recoil from the light in fear and be drawn into hell.

- On the third day; this time it is the fault if egotism STS that will cause the soul to react to the God with fear - fear emanating from oneself, and he will be drawn to the human world, where his next incarnation will thereby take place.


- On the fourth day dawns the God of Eternal Life; if the soul has a negative reaction to him because of miserliness and attachment - oneself emanations, he will be drawn toward rebirth in the Preta-Loka, a world of "hungry ghosts" who have huge stomachs and throats the size of pinholes, and so they wander about in a constant state of unsatisfied ravenous desire.Truly sounds like the archons feeding of our énergies relentlessly


-On the fifth day comes God in the form of an Almighty Conqueror; this time it's jealousy that will unseat the soul, and he will be born into the Asura-Loka, a world of fierce warrior-deities - aren't those the famous reptilians? (or demons).

-On the sixth day all the deities return and dawn together, along with the lights from all six Lokas.

-On the seventh day there appear the Knowledge-Holding Deities, who are more fierce and demonic-looking than those that have previously dawned; and in fact they are sort of a transitional element to the next stage of the second bardo, where the soul encounters the wrathful deities. deeper into reptilians

Meanwhile, if because of stupidity the soul cannot face the Knowledge-Holding Deities, he is drawn toward the Brute-Loka - that is, he will be reborn on Earth as an animal.

In the second week of the second bardo, the soul meets seven legions of Wrathful Deities: hideous, terrifying demons who advance upon him with flame and sword, drinking blood from human skulls, threatening to wreak unmerciful torture upon him, to maim, disembowel, decapitate and slay him.about perfect Dracos reptilians description


The natural tendency, of course, is for the soul to attempt to flee from these beings in stark, screaming, blood-curdled terror;but if he does, all is lost.

(Again, I left out the instructions.)

3. The Third Bardo
In the third bardo the soul encounters the Lord of Death, a fearsome demonic deity who appears in smoke and fireperfect description of the Djinns here, and subjects the soul to a Judgment.

If the dead person protests that he has done no evil, the Lord of Death holds up before him the Mirror of Karma, "wherein every good and evil act is vividly reflected."

Now demons approach and begin to inflict torments and punishments upon the soul for his evil deeds. little greys with their kidnap and thei r showing terrible earth events

The instructions in the Bardo Thodol are for him to attempt to recognize the Voidness of all these beings- thought in all the esoteric schools, including the Lord of Death himself; the dead person is told that this entire scene unfolding around him is a projection from his own mind.

Even here he can attain liberation by recognizing this.

The soul who is still not liberated after the Judgment will now be drawn remorselessly toward rebirth.

The lights of the six Lokas will dawn again; into one of these worlds the soul must be born, and [B]the light of the one he is destined for will shine more brightly than the others.

The soul is still experiencing the frightening apparitions and sufferings of the third bardo, and he feels that he will do anything to escape from this condition.

He will seek shelter in what appear to be caves or hiding-places, but which are actually the entrances to wombs.
He is warned of this by the text of the Bardo Thodol, and urged not to enter them, but to ]meditate upon the Clear Light inste[/COLOR]ad; for it is still possible for him to achieve the third degree of liberation -liberation from 3 D? and avoid rebirth.

Finally there comes a point where it is no longer possible to attain liberation, and after this the soul is given instructions on how to choose the best womb for a favorable incarnation.

The basic method is non-attachment:to try to rise above both attraction to worldly pleasures and repulsion from worldly ills.

The final words of the Bardo Thodol are: "Let virtue and goodness be perfected in every way."

-

"Be not fond of the dull smoke-colored light from hell." - Tibetan Book of the Dead

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/buddhism01.html


From "Death"
The Stages of the
Bardo of Becoming

For most beings, the lights that appear now are pale in comparison to the vivid lights of the bardo of dharmata.

When we see them, we will naturally feel drawn to one more than others.
However, the instruction at this time is to refrain from allowing ourselves to be drawn into any one of these states.

The white light that appears is associated with the realm of the gods, the red light with the realm of the jealous gods, the blue light with the human realm, the green light with the animal realm, the yellow light with the hungry ghost realm, and the dark, fog-like light with the hell realm.

http://www.ralphmag.org/FJ/ponlop-reading.html

:faint:

[Ealiss]

As a female, I am a bit intrigued as to these NAKED MEN running around on the moon... Since I can do remote viewing. Tee hee.


In all seriousness, though, in reply to Amzer Zo.

Though Ingo is interesting, I see no correlation to the white light in any of the quotes posted. Telepathy and Remote Viewing do not involve white light. It sounds to me like Ingo would love for people to use their psychic talents and I agree with him but that is another topic entirely.

[observer]

So many of the members are totally missing the point.

Nothing regarding what is being said is "fear based". Ignorance creates fear. Knowledge/understanding removes fear.

Knowing....understanding what we are all here to overcome, and most importantly, how those dark forces imprison our eternal souls is a tactical advantage - not something to fear.

Understanding a possibility that going through certain doorways will lead one's eternal soul to endless loops of birth-death-rebirth is gaining the knowledge of where one should go - not what one should fear.

We are all suppose to be warriors here. Let's try to act like warriors.

[Unicorn]

Understanding a possibility that going through certain doorways will lead one's eternal soul to endless loops of birth-death-rebirth is gaining the knowledge of where one should go - not what one should fear.

We are all suppose to be warriors here. Let's try to act like warriors.

That’s the point! Perhaps too many of us haven’t realized yet that we are all in a battle. A fierce battle for our souls. Every possible religion/belief system has been designed to deceive us, to disempower us, to give up our power to something else and go on sleeping.

In all probability, the fact that I am here again is the result of having been deceived after all my previous death experiences. This time, I’d like to try something different. I want to run the risk of the unknown. So if I have a say on that when the moment comes, I won’t dive into the white light.

I really thank all those brave warriors that face critics and sarcasm for exposing a possible way out of this maze.

[AngelArmy]

excellent!

[AngelArmy]

you probably do have OBE's in other realms ;)

[RunningDeer]

When my son passed, I had a private funeral with close family members and then a mass open to the public. It was when his coffin was placed into the hearse, I lost it in the car. With my head in my lap, I screeched out of anger and pain. But there was another part of me that watched myself travel down a semi-dark tunnel. There was enough golden light to catch glimpses of a cave-like brown terrain. It was a silent and peaceful place/state.

What does this have to do with manipulation, trickery, and white light? How does loss compare with personal death or NDE experience? For me, it’s the raw, unedited experience that is enough for me to know that I’ll flow within clarity rather than fear of the unknown. I know it's possible to live that silent-peace without trauma induced experience. Which in turn opens heart and fosters clarity of mind.

RunningDeer <3

[Delight]

The recent additions to the discussion just reiterate that we create a story through our beliefs and then live the story. If one desires to be a warrior, there will be a war. If one desires with passion and focus, the story will be richer and more dramatic. this to me is the reason for the bardo. We get to see characterization and yet.... the themes of hero/villain saint/sinner, warrior/Pacifist, Sorcerer/Mage and all the other archetypes cannot be who we are. how would one be able to take a step away from the story if we are only the presentation.

IMO, it is my awareness "here and now" that describes the scenery of a participatory collective life I engage. One of the aspects of cyberspace is that it becomes very abstract and divorced from participation. My caution to me is to recognize that my participation supports the direction of the experience just by engaging. That is so simple.

It means that we will know what we believe when we see it manifest. That is the message I take from the Bardo and the way the whole exercise works. If the themes have exhausted themselves and the energies of emotion that drive us collapse, we are left with something else to notice. It may take a million plays for the director to retire and look for other occupations yet undreamed?

[Hervé]

[...]

.... My take on the tunnel is that it is a kind of vortex or wormhole. Not being a physicist I cannot accurately describe the technology.

[...]

TLC

Apparently, and according to Andrew Basiago, similar electromagnetic tunnels have been manufactured by Earth humans to investigate "Time Travel"... as byproducts of the "Philadelphia Experiment."

It seems that it's a technology very similar to these "Jump Rooms" to Mars and elsewhere, etc.

In the end, this "white light" thing is no more than a last abduction with a different end destination...

[Synchronicity]

The fear-based part to me is reading tons of people saying all different things that are all the person's opinions and buying so totally into them that the person lives in fear, and I'm not saying that applies to anyone here since I don't know any of you and it's not my place to judge anyway. I know people who go through life in fear due to reading what this person says not to do and that person demands is the only thing to do. Some go through life feeling like soldiers, some go through this life feeling like the medics trying to help others go through this life. I've been through the white light to help people cross and make sure they are safe on the other side, so sure, could that be just my perception and some kind of trick? Sure. So could Simon Parkes' comments to keep people from the light. So could Courtney's comments be a trick and so could every other theory that can keep people running in circles. To me personally the battle involves not buying into everything everyone says when it doesn't feel right to me. Could I be tricked? Sure...we all could be tricked.

Some may be warriors who are fighting one battle and that is fine, but some may not be here to be warriors this time or may be fighting a completely different battle. And what if the way through the maze is to listen to our own guides and intuition and not all the noise of various conflicting theories? I have no idea and am not saying anyone else's way is wrong, but just that all the theories can't be right at once, just as all the religions can't be the only right one and all the political groups can't be the only right way to think.

So for me personally I think it's to each her/his own and I'm going to do what I do and live my life. I wish the best to everyone else and healing and peace to those who want it, too. :)

[Agape]

From "Death"
The Stages of the
Bardo of Becoming

For most beings, the lights that appear now are pale in comparison to the vivid lights of the bardo of dharmata.

When we see them, we will naturally feel drawn to one more than others.
However, the instruction at this time is to refrain from allowing ourselves to be drawn into any one of these states.

The white light that appears is associated with the realm of the gods, the red light with the realm of the jealous gods, the blue light with the human realm, the green light with the animal realm, the yellow light with the hungry ghost realm, and the dark, fog-like light with the hell realm.

http://www.ralphmag.org/FJ/ponlop-reading.html

:faint:



Thank you for contribution Heyokah ,

I'll add only couple of short points right at the moment ...

vis the Clear Light of Mind : I've tried to explain the meaning of this two or three times at this very board ,

the latest 'parental post' can be found in another Simons' thread : http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?67888-Discussion-Thread-on-the-Simon-Parkes-Material&p=794641&viewfull=1#post794641

another one is buried somewhere in Spirituality section in thread devoted entirely to the same discussion which indeed began with someone asking about a statement/quote from Robert Morningsky .

Esoteric texts of all traditions are confusing and it's sometimes done 'for purpose' .

Such as it is with descriptions of meditation stages and 'samadhis' , in all kinds of traditions, firstly .. the words to describe sublimity of these states and experiences are often difficult to find ..so we use metaphors .
While we use metaphors .. certain part of audience ( classroom ) are able to get meaning /direct insight to that metaphor while the rest will pick up on words or note them down , and interpret them literally .

So it happens with about every sort of communication and medial transmission we can possible have , as human beings and I'm afraid , even beyond this Planet .

Missing the true meaning of what's possibly being conveyed by someone tends to be grave error at the end .


The whole benefit of the Bardo Thodrol and many other such profound texts ( I'd really encourage everyone with serious interest in their own and others psycho-spiritual evolution to read the original /translation of the Book ) is that you can and are expected to practise the meditation on these states while abiding in this 'Bardo of Existence' ,
a Dream of Human Awareness as we tend to experience it here . Whatever we call 'human awareness' and awakening is but one such a 'Bardo' , state of consciousness that is ephemeral and lasts only as long as we remain practically attached to functions of this human body .
Naturally, when this body dissipates the state of consciousness changes .


It's said that there is no need of 'transference' and no 'afterlife' Bardo states for Masters who realised profound detachment from this human body and every other form of corporeal existence .

The only reason why we experience some of those states ( lights and apparitions ) is our attachment to some worldly pursuits and missions. No matter what we love here we're bound to lose it .

Now let me tell you this one .. to general reader again, since I don't know how many of you have had teachers and done some genuine practise of the topic ..

to an average but diligent meditator , it takes years to recognise the difference between 'true states' and 'illusory states' of mind , and the different 'lights' that 's been discussed here .

There are 'secret signs' described in old meditation texts associated with certain achievements,

starting with what you call 'dazzling white light' ( like if you happen to look to the bright Sun at noon and would lost consciousness ) ,

'all red light' ( that's like being absorbed by intense colors of red sunset )

'dark light' ( that's called 'all black' and there's no light and no object to be seen in such state of mind at all )

then there are states of 'seeing fireflies' ,

( again, the profundity of such meditation state can not match a chance experience of being 'dizzy ' and seeing fireflies )


'seeing mirage' and 'deep blue drop' .

I'm sure I've omitted few and there's much more to this than can be explained in short but what I wish to stress again is that such experiences are but a milestones on long journey .

They may even freak you out , with their depth and realistic impression..however .. many more people get scared of much lesser apparitions and mind states ,
and for any genuine meditation practitioner, guidance of accomplished teacher is priceless .

With mere reading of books and scriptures you may become knowledgeable , collect lots of information , or even become great scholar

but none of it grants you solid wisdom and experience of the Path.

The trick is .. that while experiencing some of these profound states of mind, with correct motivation and guidance , the depth of your wisdom and understanding forever changes .

The journey is long .. and steps and changes to go through are many .

Too many people get so excited after their first samadhi that they actually think of themselves as very lucky and enlightened people for several years .


Also , it should be said .. that trying some of these things at home.. while you're immersed in some kind of busy and stressful curriculum can feel rather disturbing , instead of 'spiritual' .
One good reason why people use/d to go for long meditation retreats to monasteries or lonely caves and searched for genuine masters and guidance .

It's not 'all easy' to do when your wife and kids , and boss shout from kitchen and TV has to be on , and bills have to payed .

There's a price of everything .. including our evolution..


:panda:

[outerheaven]

Consider that when some of you get to SOURCE, that SOURCE might just be your Higher Self, and it might say "Nice try ... you did pretty good, but we have more work to do down there."

Are some of us trying to find an easy way out of the work we're here to do, which is MAINLY to spread love to dissipate the 'fear' clouds that bind us all here? I truly think there is a greater purpose we're missing, and it has something to do with Spiritual Evolution, where this painful Human stage is part of it. A little part of it, actually. We'll see! lol!

Very good series of posts Calamus, thank you.

When I first read about the white light trap theory, it exhausted and depressed me. It really does make everything here & now seem so hopeless.

The "solution" seems to be to subscribe to the ideology that perpetuates the implanting alien story, so that one can learn the ways of removing said implants. In other words, take that negative belief/fear, and send it even deeper into your being and make it a central part of your existence ... in order to overcome it. It feels like the entry point of a very negative set of beliefs. I'd have to essentially over-write my current ideology in order to make room for this one ... while it lacks the necessary "ring of truth" to inspire me on that path.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that means it's automatically untrue. I could have my head stuck in the sand, refusing to hear the truth and accept the shock and pain before I can begin down the road to recovery -- similar to the people who don't want to look at the myriad evidence about false flags, etc.

My defense aligns similarly to greybeard's sentiment; if a belief doesn't have the ring of truth, or somehow empower/improve myself, I'm not likely to accept it. I'm of the opinion that ultimately, underneath all of this Matrix programming (this includes implanter-and-implantee aliens, BTW!) and the reality we experience every day, the simple truth is that we manifest the reality we expect. If our reality is manifested by our beliefs, why should I include in my beliefs a hopeless, depressing view of us caught in a cycle of futile existence as alien slaves, from which there is no escape?

Massaging this idea further, it's funny how easily the "white light is a trap" belief can be seen as a negatively-oriented version of the truth that many around here already subscribe to. How many of you believe in reincarnation? How many of you feel like you have full recall of all that you ever experienced in a past life? How many of you believe in the return to Source, followed by a review of lessons learned and not learned? How many believe that we continue this cycle until we don't need it any longer?

So then it's not a stretch to say that many already believe that our memories ARE wiped upon reaching the white light, and will continue to be wiped, until we no longer need this process. All that's missing from this viewpoint is the evil implanting aliens! And supposing that the implanting aliens were true -- then that must be what we need to realize before we can graduate from this cycle, eh? So then, if this view were correct, those that subscribe to it would be further ahead than me in the process of working on themselves to end the cycle -- well, so be it, and godspeed!

In the end, IMO, all things will return to One/Source, one way or another. I accept that openly, and see little reason to fear the process, whatever it may be.

***

As an aside ... I had what felt like a productive meditation on "the white light" phenomenon a little ways back, before I was sure what to make of it but after the emotional turmoil had subsided. What I finally saw in that meditation is similar to the idea you described in this post, Calamus: the tunnel is the path from your physical body to your higher self/Source/the white light. (I've heard OBEs describe the light body being connected to the physical body via a "golden thread." Perhaps this is what we "travel" through to reach Source/One/whatever when we pass over?)

[jackovesk]

I haven't weighed in on this conversation as yet, although I think I helped start it.

Because I came to a conclusion some time ago...



To Walk into the "Light" or Not Walk into the "Light"...:confused:

After weighing up both options, I will be using my own (Judgement/Intuition) when the time arises and I expect when faced with that decision it will be the right One...:yes4:

[Agape]

When my son passed, I had a private funeral with close family members and then a mass open to the public. It was when his coffin was placed into the hearse, I lost it in the car. With my head in my lap, I screeched out of anger and pain. But there was another part of me that watched myself travel down a semi-dark tunnel. There was enough golden light to catch glimpses of a cave-like brown terrain. It was a silent and peaceful place/state.

What does this have to do with manipulation, trickery, and white light? How does loss compare with personal death or NDE experience? For me, it’s the raw, unedited experience that is enough for me to know that I’ll flow within clarity rather than fear of the unknown. I know it's possible to live that silent-peace without trauma induced experience. Which in turn opens heart and fosters clarity of mind.

RunningDeer <3



I think it's only the Heart that knows the right answer :angel:

[Synchronicity]

When my son passed, I had a private funeral with close family members and then a mass open to the public. It was when his coffin was placed into the hearse, I lost it in the car. With my head in my lap, I screeched out of anger and pain. But there was another part of me that watched myself travel down a semi-dark tunnel. There was enough golden light to catch glimpses of a cave-like brown terrain. It was a silent and peaceful place/state.

What does this have to do with manipulation, trickery, and white light? How does loss compare with personal death or NDE experience? For me, it’s the raw, unedited experience that is enough for me to know that I’ll flow within clarity rather than fear of the unknown. I know it's possible to live that silent-peace without trauma induced experience. Which in turn opens heart and fosters clarity of mind.

RunningDeer <3

Thank you for sharing that with us. You gave me much to think about.

During my NDE experience I saw no light. I was in a place I didn't want to leave...peaceful, calm, cave-like, and I knew people who had passed were in the distance but not where I could see them. They kept working on me and calling me back, and I was also in the hospital hall, up over them watching them work on my body, seeing the energies of patients wandering halls, noticing the doctor's tag hanging out of his shirt, and then I was back in that neutral and wonderful place I didn't want to leave.

Obviously I came back, but not completely. I'm not afraid of death at all and I have felt and seen many take that journey without fear or any battle, stepped with them if needed and saw no trickery or struggle. The experience is amazing and not traumatic at all. I can't speak for what I haven't experienced, but as you said, the raw, unedited experience is what I have to go on and I have never had any reason to doubt all the peace I have felt from so many over the years. Peace to you, RunningDear.

[Delight]

Could I be tricked? Sure...we all could be tricked.

Some may be warriors who are fighting one battle and that is fine, but some may not be here to be warriors this time or may be fighting a completely different battle. And what if the way through the maze is to listen to our own guides and intuition and not all the noise of various conflicting theories? I have no idea and am not saying anyone else's way is wrong, but just that all the theories can't be right at once, just as all the religions can't be the only right one and all the political groups can't be the only right way to think.

So for me personally I think it's to each her/his own and I'm going to do what I do and live my life. I wish the best to everyone else and healing and peace to those who want it, too. :)

I enjoy your posts because they ask good questions. I appreciate the inclusiveness of your best wishes. Could it be the case that we choose to be tricked as one particular theme. After all, there is that Trickster (holy scam artist) archetype that calls for willing victims to play a role. The Abscam story underlying "American Hustle" was an entrapment tale. It was evident that entrapment is hard to withstand without strong principles. So a person of "principle" is IMO what we become more and more in the path. We become less and less involved in the collective story.

Example of a scam might be...if you give me "$5000 today, I will guarantee you back $50,000. This illogic appeals to all kinds of avarice. It was apparently very attractive to many who were suckered willingly (some twice). Poverty consciousness prevails until the being gets reconnected to infinite supply. IMO that is actually proof of benevolence in the Universe.

I suspect that any aspect of the "MANIPULATION FROM OUTSIDE" political and the exopolitical tales are locked in low frequency themes. They all seem to be about "taking" because there is no understanding of infinite supply.

To take grasping because one does not already own, to steal because one can "by virtue of my opportune position to take" has no SELF confidence or well being. This lack will manifest and greater poverty appear to be the case as in more strife, hunger, stealing, warring. Like alcoholics all do when seeking the anti-spirit cure one reaches bottom. One will accept utter defeat for a larger purpose.

IMO, we have a great opportunity to open up our channels and the stronger this tide of inner principles mastered, the louder the voices offering a sale on lies. When one has been through the scam mill long enough, one just will not be enticed. That is just duality change. I am almost positive that Leonard Cohen was right on in Anthem. We come to love like a refugee when sick and tired of being sick and tired.




The birds they sang at the break of day
"Start again", I heard them say
Don't dwell on what has passed away
Or what is yet to be

Ah, the wars they will be fought again
The holy dove, she will be caught again
Bought and sold and bought again
The dove is never free

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

We asked for signs, the signs were sent
The birth betrayed, the marriage spent
Yeah, the widowhood of every government
Signs for all to see

I can't run no more with that lawless crowd
While the killers in high places say their prayers out loud
But they've summoned, they've summoned up a thundercloud
And they're going to hear from me

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

You can add up the parts, you won't have the sum
You can strike up the march, there is no drum
Every heart, every heart to love will come
But like a refugee

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

That's how the light gets in
That's how the light gets in

Read more: Leonard Cohen - Anthem Lyrics | MetroLyrics

[heyokah]

I find this sooo interesting, this Bardo book. We could correlate almost every step of dying and what is encountered with the cosmogony of archons, reptilians, mantids, pleaiadians, etc talked about in this forum lol.

What i conclude is that we are dealing with archétypes of human on earth, the process being the same over time and groups. Are we to accept this creation of our minds or are we to look in the clear light, in which you se everything but are not blinded - the check point is "do i see everything there is or am I blinded by the light? (not the white one).






It's been discussed and will be discussed here yet many times and I'd encourage everyone disrespective of their religious backgrounds to get own copy of the Bardo Thodrol for full explanation about the process of dying, visions and lights you may experience . While living or leaving this state of human existence .



Hallo agape, thank you for your post, which gives me an opportunity to say something about the Bardo Thodol.
We are discussing here the different Lights that can be seen at the moment of transition and their 'realms' they could lead to, which by many is seen as fear mongering.

I've been a student of quite some Buddhist teachers during my life, among which Sogyal Rimpoche the pupil of Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche (http://www.lerabling.org/index.php/lang-en/sogyal-rinpoche/sogyal-rinpoches-teachers/dilgo-khyentse-rinpoche), which was my first teacher.
So I happen to be familiar with the Tibetan Book of the Dead (Bardo Thodol) and Sogyal's version, which is more suitable to the Western world, The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying.


Reading the Bardos again, I can't see much difference in, what some members would call, 'fear mongering' between the Bardos and the insights of Robert Morning Star. true
I will show you some Lights and Realms that are told to be there.... (I'm taking parts out of the text here, skipping most of the instructions as one can read them for one selves.)

****

1. The First Bardo Afterlife Realm
The first bardo comes at the very moment of death, when there dawns the Clear Light of the Ultimate Reality.
This is the very content and substance of the state of liberation, if only the soul can recognize it and act in a way to remain in that state.
The instructions intended to be read at the moment of the person's death are designed to help him do this.

a clear light, not a white light, there is a difference

Most souls, however, will fail to do this. They will be pulled down by the weight of their karma into the second stage of the first bardo, called the Secondary Clear Light seen immediately after death.

2. The Second Bardo
If the soul is still not liberated at this stage, it will descend into the second bardo, which is said to last for two weeks. The second bardo is also divided into two parts; in the first, the soul of the deceased encounters what are referred to as "the Peaceful Deities.

-On the first day of the second bardo, there appears to the soul the divine Father-Mother - that is, the supreme deity of the universe, transcending all dualities, including the division into sexes the existence in our down to earth god's cosmology of God represented as father/mother, STO lol
-On the second day, there appears the second-highest God in the Buddhist pantheon - in fact, he is actually the Second Person in the literal Buddhist Holy Trinity. The son, Jesus, positive, STO

At the same time, there dawns a smoky light from hell - the color is changing, maybe Djinns world; and here we note that, just as the Buddhist heaven is not a permanent, eternal state, neither is its hell.

Even the most wretched souls will eventually work their way out of even the deepest pit of hell, just as even the highest and purest souls will eventually lose their footing in heaven and descend again into the cycle of death and rebirth.
Liberation is the only way out.

Once again, if the soul responds to the "dazzling white light" here the white light instad of the clear one[/B]

of the second God the son, Jesus or other, met with the joy of a pure heart, he will be liberated thereby; STO, love and joy to be emanating from oneself

but if he specifically reacts with ANGER from having indulged in this vice on Earth STS anger and fear emanating from oneself, he will recoil from the light in fear and be drawn into hell.

- On the third day; this time it is the fault if egotism STS that will cause the soul to react to the God with fear - fear emanating from oneself, and he will be drawn to the human world, where his next incarnation will thereby take place.


- On the fourth day dawns the God of Eternal Life; if the soul has a negative reaction to him because of miserliness and attachment - oneself emanations, he will be drawn toward rebirth in the Preta-Loka, a world of "hungry ghosts" who have huge stomachs and throats the size of pinholes, and so they wander about in a constant state of unsatisfied ravenous desire.Truly sounds like the archons feeding of our énergies relentlessly


-On the fifth day comes God in the form of an Almighty Conqueror; this time it's jealousy that will unseat the soul, and he will be born into the Asura-Loka, a world of fierce warrior-deities - aren't those the famous reptilians? (or demons).

-On the sixth day all the deities return and dawn together, along with the lights from all six Lokas.

-On the seventh day there appear the Knowledge-Holding Deities, who are more fierce and demonic-looking than those that have previously dawned; and in fact they are sort of a transitional element to the next stage of the second bardo, where the soul encounters the wrathful deities. deeper into reptilians

Meanwhile, if because of stupidity the soul cannot face the Knowledge-Holding Deities, he is drawn toward the Brute-Loka - that is, he will be reborn on Earth as an animal.

In the second week of the second bardo, the soul meets seven legions of Wrathful Deities: hideous, terrifying demons who advance upon him with flame and sword, drinking blood from human skulls, threatening to wreak unmerciful torture upon him, to maim, disembowel, decapitate and slay him.about perfect Dracos reptilians description


The natural tendency, of course, is for the soul to attempt to flee from these beings in stark, screaming, blood-curdled terror;but if he does, all is lost.

(Again, I left out the instructions.)

3. The Third Bardo
In the third bardo the soul encounters the Lord of Death, a fearsome demonic deity who appears in smoke and fireperfect description of the Djinns here, and subjects the soul to a Judgment.

If the dead person protests that he has done no evil, the Lord of Death holds up before him the Mirror of Karma, "wherein every good and evil act is vividly reflected."

Now demons approach and begin to inflict torments and punishments upon the soul for his evil deeds. little greys with their kidnap and thei r showing terrible earth events

The instructions in the Bardo Thodol are for him to attempt to recognize the Voidness of all these beings- thought in all the esoteric schools, including the Lord of Death himself; the dead person is told that this entire scene unfolding around him is a projection from his own mind.

Even here he can attain liberation by recognizing this.

The soul who is still not liberated after the Judgment will now be drawn remorselessly toward rebirth.

The lights of the six Lokas will dawn again; into one of these worlds the soul must be born, and [B]the light of the one he is destined for will shine more brightly than the others.

The soul is still experiencing the frightening apparitions and sufferings of the third bardo, and he feels that he will do anything to escape from this condition.

He will seek shelter in what appear to be caves or hiding-places, but which are actually the entrances to wombs.
He is warned of this by the text of the Bardo Thodol, and urged not to enter them, but to ]meditate upon the Clear Light inste[/COLOR]ad; for it is still possible for him to achieve the third degree of liberation -liberation from 3 D? and avoid rebirth.

Finally there comes a point where it is no longer possible to attain liberation, and after this the soul is given instructions on how to choose the best womb for a favorable incarnation.

The basic method is non-attachment:to try to rise above both attraction to worldly pleasures and repulsion from worldly ills.

The final words of the Bardo Thodol are: "Let virtue and goodness be perfected in every way."

-

"Be not fond of the dull smoke-colored light from hell." - Tibetan Book of the Dead

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/buddhism01.html


From "Death"
The Stages of the
Bardo of Becoming

For most beings, the lights that appear now are pale in comparison to the vivid lights of the bardo of dharmata.

When we see them, we will naturally feel drawn to one more than others.
However, the instruction at this time is to refrain from allowing ourselves to be drawn into any one of these states.

The white light that appears is associated with the realm of the gods, the red light with the realm of the jealous gods, the blue light with the human realm, the green light with the animal realm, the yellow light with the hungry ghost realm, and the dark, fog-like light with the hell realm.

http://www.ralphmag.org/FJ/ponlop-reading.html

:faint:

Dear Flash,

First, I want to say that my post was highlighted in red by Delight and not by me.


What I wanted to point out with my post is, that in the Bardos a lot of 'traps' are mentioned and instructions are given to avoid them.

The same do Robert Morning Sky and Simon Parkes, when they give the instruction to avoid the luring (dazzling) White Light and turn away to look for one's "Own Light".

Note that in the Bardos the only light that will lead to liberation is the Clear Light of the Ultimate Reality. Not a luring White Light.


The "dazzling white light" is mentioned even in the Bardos as a risk to be drawn into hell when being in fear.
but if he specifically reacts with ANGER from having indulged in this vice on Earth, he will recoil from the light in fear and be drawn into hell.

[Synchronicity]

Thanks, Delight, and your post #105 makes sense to me. We are all on our own paths, and some may be on one part, while some on another. The part of my path that I am on now makes complete sense to me, but I have to acknowledge that it might not to someone else. When I see others on their path I have to choose to be respectful of where they are even if I have left that place or haven't been there yet, or I wouldn't be where I am and would be moving backwards. What I do and how I live is scary or wrong to some and I accept that as just part of their journey and mine. Yes, I do think sometimes we are in that place that we are okay with being tricked, and sometimes we see others being tricked and can choose to argue with them over who is right or just let them live as they wish and keep walking on our own path.

It's always fascinating to me when one person says, "Oh, I used to think that way about .........(whatever), but I know better now". It's fascinating because I also see someone else moving into where the other person just left saying, "Oh, this is amazing and I'm glad I discovered truth finally". It's all in the perspective and it's so easy to think we have discovered THE truth and the poor other fella hasn't been enlightened yet, but that "poor fella" may well be thinking the same thing about us! Now isn't that delightful in a way? There is so much to be learned and experienced and the vastness of the universe(s) is so...well, vast :)

[RunningDeer]

When my son passed, I had a private funeral with close family members and then a mass open to the public. It was when his coffin was placed into the hearse, I lost it in the car. With my head in my lap, I screeched out of anger and pain. But there was another part of me that watched myself travel down a semi-dark tunnel. There was enough golden light to catch glimpses of a cave-like brown terrain. It was a silent and peaceful place/state.

What does this have to do with manipulation, trickery, and white light? How does loss compare with personal death or NDE experience? For me, it’s the raw, unedited experience that is enough for me to know that I’ll flow within clarity rather than fear of the unknown. I know it's possible to live that silent-peace without trauma induced experience. Which in turn opens heart and fosters clarity of mind.

RunningDeer <3



I think it's only the Heart that knows the right answer :angel:

I agree Agape. Ideally, the Heart is my chosen place to live. Though the mind says, “Pick me, pick me.” The way around this is to attend to perceived dramas before they run rampant. That’s what I meant by “clarity of mind”.

RunningDeer <3

[TrumanCash]

This has been discussed on similar threads, but for those who are not aware of my experiences with this phenomenon, I will comment again here.

Not everyone "goes to the light" at body death. I have recovered several in-between life experiences vis-a-vis this planet of going toward the light at the end of tunnel.

This is, from our perspective as Earthbound humans, some incredibly high technology. What is at the end of the tunnel is nothing more than an implantation mothership. My take on the tunnel is that it is a kind of vortex or wormhole. Not being a physicist I cannot accurately describe the technology.

Simon Parkes uses the word "processing" instead of implant. He said that they are automated but also manned by Grays. However, in my experiences with these implanting stations it is the Mantids who are running the show. They disguise themselves as glowing beings. It is a deception. They implant false realities via what can best be described as telepathic hypnosis, e.g., dead relatives, etc, etc.

From my own past life memories I discovered that I was trying to stop the abductions on planet Earth over 15 thousand years ago. The Mantids apparently didn't like my interfering with their operations so they captured me nearly 12,400 years ago, implanted me in a body and set me back on Earth. Since then they have been following me lifetime to lifetime and making sure I report in to the implant station whenever I "die" in order to keep me from being a problem to their operations.

Simon has also confirmed that the Mantids not only orchestrate abductions but they also have the technology to implant a spiritual being into a body and even transfer a being from one body to another.

I am no longer at war with them as war and fighting is not a permanent, viable solution to the problem. It appears that they are implanted to be implanters and they are really stuck in that.

Mantids are in cahoots with the Grays and the human-looking bearded "gods"/ETs who have established Earth's god-worshipping religions and secret societies. In other words the Mantis beings are very instrumental in creating and maintaining war and chaos on this planet as well as operating and maintaining the artificial "reincarnation" system on this planet.

I have detailed my experiences vis-a-vis this subject in THE EYE OF RA, which anyone can download free of charge from the Avalon Project website (links below).

TLC

Given what is quoted above, which seems to be (I guess) corroborated by some others (all of which have their own contacts and experiences from who knows where, and with varying details, I gather) ...

If this Alien Domination 'paradigm' is true ...

What hope then do we HUMAN souls have against this oppressive force?

What is there to do as a collective to fend them off?

They seem to have an incredible power and advantage to the point of controlling everything on Earth.

Are we to just become hopeless in all of this?

Given that mankind is in this hopeless prison ...

Do we make a knowledgeable decision to go into death with this Intent to Go To Source, as is suggested, but not before spreading this hopeless story to others and recommend they do the same thing?

If this whole idea came out as a FACT to the world, everything would collapse overnight.

I mean, if our leaders are under their control, and KNOW about all this, I imagine trying to usurp them by revolution would be pointless, since the aliens could just come down and wipe us out, no? Or the governments would use their advanced weapons to control and subjugate us, no?

Are we to consider that there are good aliens who apparently have no power to save us? Are there no good guys?

I just don't get it.

Anyone want to enlighten me about this paradigm? I think this would be a fitting place to SUM UP the ideas of Simon and Truman and others who propagate this hopeless paradigm for those of us who by (perhaps a differently discerning) personal Intuition have a hard time following these stories.

What does the individual do to help themselves and others to overcome this? I just see it as hopeless right now, this 'world view' we are discussing.

----------------

On another note, I can only try and convey the idea (my personal opinion) that there is much more going on, and that the ones pointing out this current deception might be the most deceived (and in some cases, the most deceiving).

Truth Seekers are drawn to the internet in search of a Path, and they are being sidelined by these ideas, that may be orchestrated by great and confusing design, to draw people away from a proper Truth ...



... a truth might be that these side-lining tales are tied together in a current and mass deception of 'dis' and 'mis'-info, where it's difficult to get a read on persons, who as some suggest are CIA agents, Black Magicians, or just bold faced liars, people who are deluded and are playing into and along with a possible 'mass delusion' of mind and emotion ...

.. and a truth where Aliens are not as real and prevalent as we are being led to believe (if they are involved at all with us right now), but rather that Black Magic (which includes the conjuring of shape-shifting beings from another dimension [read: aliens]) on un-surveyable large and small scales is being used, along with (and perhaps in conjunction with) advanced technology in a masterful game of deception that will all come to light in our lifetimes ... and when it does we might be shocked to find out who were our true enemies and allies all along.

This is serious stuff, people. It's not enough to go lovey dubby into the night and day. Some of us have minds who depend on understanding Truth (and some of us are here to fight deception, of which all of these 'old' and 'new age' religions are part of)

A hopeless paradigm like this in the wrong soul could be death and derailment from an inspired lifetime.

Let's be certain and convicted of things before we go spreading 'the word' and making things worse for ourselves and others.

Lastly, given the fact (maybe) that we now read 'evidence' of 'agents of deception' work covertly through the internet (and through normally unseen dimensions perhaps) to derail and attack prevailing alternative theories and theorists, which I would suggest that also attack other and older 'systems of knowledge' as well ....

... I suggest that [I]everyone is suspect, and one can't be too suspicious ... even right here on Project Avalon.

And trust me, I don't trust my own motivation these days ... thanks to these ideas I come across here and there.

Thanks for bringing up this very important point, Calamus. I understand that when one looks at the incredible technology of the ET Conspirators (ETCs) and their extremely elaborate matrix of deception to keep us in spiritual darkness, it can sometimes generate feelings of hopelessness. However, the truth is that there is now more hope than ever. For the first time in Earth's recent history, within the past several million years anyway, the common people are beginning to understand the bigger picture. Truth is rising, exponentially!

It might seem like a cliche to some, but TRUTH REALLY CAN SET US FREE. This is a universal principle that can be applied in so many ways and on so many levels. And, as I have found, it can free us from the machinations of the ETCs.

Please stop and ponder these questions:

Why do the ETCs spend all their time and resources to create an incredibly vast and intricate web of deceit?

Why do they use their technology to operate in secrecy and hide their activities from public view? Why do they wipe out the memories of abductees? Why do they keep us distracted by creating false religions and secret societies to foment war and chaos?

The answer is quite simple--Because they don't want us to know what they are doing and how they are doing it. If they could accomplish their goals using their incredible technology without secrecy, wouldn't they just be open about it? If they wanted to just wipe us out, why haven't they just done so?

The truth is that what they fear most of all is the TRUTH. Truth exposes the lies. Truth exposes the deception. The matrix dissolves in relation to the extent that the truth is revealed.

And the truth of the matter is that we are all very powerful spiritual beings. We are gods. They can't blow up the planet or otherwise kill us because you can't kill a spiritual being. They can only try to prevent us from knowing the truth about who we really are. That is the truth that the ETCs do not want us to know. They are in extreme fear of us. Why else would they spend their entire existence in oppressing us and keeping us in spiritual darkness?

But what they don't seem to realize is that this is the double-edged sword of karma. When one harms others then one can also be harmed. When they spend their entire existence in the effort to suppress the spiritual evolvement of other sentient, spiritual beings, then they themselves will not evolve spiritually.

Does it strike you as a very enjoyable existence to spend your life in an austere, tin can "flying saucer" in the cold, blackness of space with no other purpose than to suppress other beings? Wouldn't they rather be sitting beside a mountain stream in a beautiful forest filled with soothing melodies of singing birds and the incredible eye candy of colorful flowers and awesome butterflies?

These poor beings have sacrificed the enjoyment of a rich and wonderful spiritual life in order to fill their empty hours with a factory worker mentality of herding people through the monotony of endless abductions, implantations, sperm/ova extration, etc, etc. The upper level administrative ETCs have to somehow justify their importance by maintaining a stoic, we-know-best, arrogant demeanor. I know this because I know them personally.

I also know that they will respond to reason if one meets them as an equal and in the spirit of friendship. I was able to end my abduction status (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52786-MATRIX-REVEALED-Analysis-Solutions&p=594175&viewfull=1#post594175) and have an insidious brain implant removed by telepathically communicating with the very Gray who had implanted me. We even became friends. I suggested he could leave his job and last I heard he did so.

We need to realize that we are them and they are us. No one has a reptilian soul, a Mantid soul or a Gray soul. We are all spiritual beings with the same basic needs and wants in spite of our cultural differences. We all have occupied "ET" bodies in our past lives.

A feeling of hopelessness can arise when we do not immediately see a solution to a problem. I certainly had to work through this myself. But if one persists one will eventually discover solutions and implement them. I got nowhere by fighting them. Polarization--the us-against-them mentality--is what holds the matrix together. I began making progress when I focused on developing my own spiritual abilities in the spirit of love and understanding. Communication and bringing about understanding are the keys to unlock and dissolve the matrix. There is more than just hope--There are solutions. And those solutions are being implemented by people who are not publicly known at this time operating quietly in the background.

What most ETCs may have not yet realized is that we are the positive change they have been waiting for. ;)

TLC

[jp11]

Excellent reply TrumanCash. I especially related to this
A feeling of hopelessness can arise when we do not immediately see a solution to a problem. I certainly had to work through this myself. But if one persists one will eventually discover solutions and implement them. I got nowhere by fighting them. Polarization--the us-against-them mentality--is what holds the matrix together. I began making progress when I focused on developing my own spiritual abilities in the spirit of love and understanding. Communication and bringing about understanding are the keys to unlock and dissolve the matrix. There is more than just hope--There are solutions. And those solutions are being implemented by people are not publicly known at this time operating quietly in the background.

Thank you for that input.





This has been discussed on similar threads, but for those who are not aware of my experiences with this phenomenon, I will comment again here.

Not everyone "goes to the light" at body death. I have recovered several in-between life experiences vis-a-vis this planet of going toward the light at the end of tunnel.

This is, from our perspective as Earthbound humans, some incredibly high technology. What is at the end of the tunnel is nothing more than an implantation mothership. My take on the tunnel is that it is a kind of vortex or wormhole. Not being a physicist I cannot accurately describe the technology.

Simon Parkes uses the word "processing" instead of implant. He said that they are automated but also manned by Grays. However, in my experiences with these implanting stations it is the Mantids who are running the show. They disguise themselves as glowing beings. It is a deception. They implant false realities via what can best be described as telepathic hypnosis, e.g., dead relatives, etc, etc.

From my own past life memories I discovered that I was trying to stop the abductions on planet Earth over 15 thousand years ago. The Mantids apparently didn't like my interfering with their operations so they captured me nearly 12,400 years ago, implanted me in a body and set me back on Earth. Since then they have been following me lifetime to lifetime and making sure I report in to the implant station whenever I "die" in order to keep me from being a problem to their operations.

Simon has also confirmed that the Mantids not only orchestrate abductions but they also have the technology to implant a spiritual being into a body and even transfer a being from one body to another.

I am no longer at war with them as war and fighting is not a permanent, viable solution to the problem. It appears that they are implanted to be implanters and they are really stuck in that.

Mantids are in cahoots with the Grays and the human-looking bearded "gods"/ETs who have established Earth's god-worshipping religions and secret societies. In other words the Mantis beings are very instrumental in creating and maintaining war and chaos on this planet as well as operating and maintaining the artificial "reincarnation" system on this planet.

I have detailed my experiences vis-a-vis this subject in THE EYE OF RA, which anyone can download free of charge from the Avalon Project website (links below).

TLC

Given what is quoted above, which seems to be (I guess) corroborated by some others (all of which have their own contacts and experiences from who knows where, and with varying details, I gather) ...

If this Alien Domination 'paradigm' is true ...

What hope then do we HUMAN souls have against this oppressive force?

What is there to do as a collective to fend them off?

They seem to have an incredible power and advantage to the point of controlling everything on Earth.

Are we to just become hopeless in all of this?

Given that mankind is in this hopeless prison ...

Do we make a knowledgeable decision to go into death with this Intent to Go To Source, as is suggested, but not before spreading this hopeless story to others and recommend they do the same thing?

If this whole idea came out as a FACT to the world, everything would collapse overnight.

I mean, if our leaders are under their control, and KNOW about all this, I imagine trying to usurp them by revolution would be pointless, since the aliens could just come down and wipe us out, no? Or the governments would use their advanced weapons to control and subjugate us, no?

Are we to consider that there are good aliens who apparently have no power to save us? Are there no good guys?

I just don't get it.

Anyone want to enlighten me about this paradigm? I think this would be a fitting place to SUM UP the ideas of Simon and Truman and others who propagate this hopeless paradigm for those of us who by (perhaps a differently discerning) personal Intuition have a hard time following these stories.

What does the individual do to help themselves and others to overcome this? I just see it as hopeless right now, this 'world view' we are discussing.

----------------

On another note, I can only try and convey the idea (my personal opinion) that there is much more going on, and that the ones pointing out this current deception might be the most deceived (and in some cases, the most deceiving).

Truth Seekers are drawn to the internet in search of a Path, and they are being sidelined by these ideas, that may be orchestrated by great and confusing design, to draw people away from a proper Truth ...



... a truth might be that these side-lining tales are tied together in a current and mass deception of 'dis' and 'mis'-info, where it's difficult to get a read on persons, who as some suggest are CIA agents, Black Magicians, or just bold faced liars, people who are deluded and are playing into and along with a possible 'mass delusion' of mind and emotion ...

.. and a truth where Aliens are not as real and prevalent as we are being led to believe (if they are involved at all with us right now), but rather that Black Magic (which includes the conjuring of shape-shifting beings from another dimension [read: aliens]) on un-surveyable large and small scales is being used, along with (and perhaps in conjunction with) advanced technology in a masterful game of deception that will all come to light in our lifetimes ... and when it does we might be shocked to find out who were our true enemies and allies all along.

This is serious stuff, people. It's not enough to go lovey dubby into the night and day. Some of us have minds who depend on understanding Truth (and some of us are here to fight deception, of which all of these 'old' and 'new age' religions are part of)

A hopeless paradigm like this in the wrong soul could be death and derailment from an inspired lifetime.

Let's be certain and convicted of things before we go spreading 'the word' and making things worse for ourselves and others.

Lastly, given the fact (maybe) that we now read 'evidence' of 'agents of deception' work covertly through the internet (and through normally unseen dimensions perhaps) to derail and attack prevailing alternative theories and theorists, which I would suggest that also attack other and older 'systems of knowledge' as well ....

... I suggest that [I]everyone is suspect, and one can't be too suspicious ... even right here on Project Avalon.

And trust me, I don't trust my own motivation these days ... thanks to these ideas I come across here and there.

Thanks for bringing up this very important point, Calamus. I understand that when one looks at the incredible technology of the ET Conspirators (ETCs) and their extremely elaborate matrix of deception to keep us in spiritual darkness, it can sometimes generate feelings of hopelessness. However, the truth is that there is now more hope than ever. For the first time in Earth's recent history, within the past several million years anyway, the common people are beginning to understand the bigger picture. Truth is rising, exponentially!

It might seem like a cliche to some, but TRUTH REALLY CAN SET US FREE. This is a universal principle that can be applied in so many ways and on so many levels. And, as I have found, it can free us from the machinations of the ETCs.

Please stop and ponder these questions:

Why do the ETCs spend all their time and resources to create an incredibly vast and intricate web of deceit?

Why do they use their technology to operate in secrecy and hide their activities from public view? Why do they wipe out the memories of abductees? Why do they keep us distracted by creating false religions and secret societies to foment war and chaos?

The answer is quite simple--Because they don't want us to know what they are doing and how they are doing it. If they could accomplish their goals using their incredible technology without secrecy, wouldn't they just be open about it? If they wanted to just wipe us out, why haven't they just done so?

The truth is that what they fear most of all is the TRUTH. Truth exposes the lies. Truth exposes the deception. The matrix dissolves in relation to the extent that the truth is revealed.

And the truth of the matter is that we are all very powerful spiritual beings. We are gods. They can't blow up the planet or otherwise kill us because you can't kill a spiritual being. They can only try to prevent us from knowing the truth about who we really are. That is the truth that the ETCs do not want us to know. They are in extreme fear of us. Why else would they spend their entire existence in oppressing us and keeping us in spiritual darkness?

But what they don't seem to realize is that this is the double-edged sword of karma. When one harms others then one can also be harmed. When they spend their entire existence in the effort to suppress the spiritual evolvement of other sentient, spiritual beings, then they themselves will not evolve spiritually.

Does it strike you as a very enjoyable existence to spend your life in an austere, tin can "flying saucer" in the cold, blackness of space with no other purpose than to suppress other beings? Wouldn't they rather be sitting beside a mountain stream in a beautiful forest filled with soothing melodies of singing birds and the incredible eye candy of colorful flowers and awesome butterflies?

These poor beings have sacrificed the enjoyment of a rich and wonderful spiritual life in order to fill their empty hours with a factory worker mentality of herding people through the monotony of endless abductions, implantations, sperm/ova extration, etc, etc. The upper level administrative ETCs have to somehow justify their importance by maintaining a stoic, we-know-best, arrogant demeanor. I know this because I know them personally.

I also know that they will respond to reason if one meets them as an equal and in the spirit of friendship. I was able to end my abduction status (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52786-MATRIX-REVEALED-Analysis-Solutions&p=594175&viewfull=1#post594175) and have an insidious brain implant removed by telepathically communicating with the very Gray who had implanted me. We even became friends. I suggested he could leave his job and last I heard he did so.

We need to realize that we are them and they are us. No one has a reptilian soul, a Mantid soul or a Gray soul. We are all spiritual beings with the same basic needs and wants in spite of our cultural differences. We all have occupied "ET" bodies in our past lives.

A feeling of hopelessness can arise when we do not immediately see a solution to a problem. I certainly had to work through this myself. But if one persists one will eventually discover solutions and implement them. I got nowhere by fighting them. Polarization--the us-against-them mentality--is what holds the matrix together. I began making progress when I focused on developing my own spiritual abilities in the spirit of love and understanding. Communication and bringing about understanding are the keys to unlock and dissolve the matrix. There is more than just hope--There are solutions. And those solutions are being implemented by people are not publicly known at this time operating quietly in the background.

What most ETCs may have not yet realized is that we are the positive change they have been waiting for. ;)

TLC

[Flash]

A feeling of hopelessness can arise when we do not immediately see a solution to a problem. I certainly had to work through this myself. But if one persists one will eventually discover solutions and implement them. I got nowhere by fighting them. Polarization--the us-against-them mentality--is what holds the matrix together. I began making progress when I focused on developing my own spiritual abilities in the spirit of love and understanding. Communication and bringing about understanding are the keys to unlock and dissolve the matrix. There is more than just hope--There are solutions. And those solutions are being implemented by people are not publicly known at this time operating quietly in the background.

What most ETCs may have not yet realized is that we are the positive change they have been waiting for. ;)

TLC

Soooo true, I am actually presently Learning this too, no need to go to polarizartion, the solution is not there, it is holding the matrix. Love and truth, are the way out.

[Kalamos]

..........

[johnf]

Truman , Your comments are very insightful, the polarization in this thread seems to be coming apart, hopefully, we shall see that depolarization is an idea whose idea has come!
We just might see this show up in world events this month, and in those to come.

JohnF

[gripreaper]

I’ve kind of avoided this thread because the discussion about “white light” seems like a non sequitur to me.

Let’s go back to our collective agreement when we chose to descend into this density. When we were galactic souls, we differentiated into two, which many call the twin flames. This was the first mirror, the first contrast of self. As we descend further into density, the polarized extremes get more intense and well, more extreme. We chose to experience all of the diversified aspects of polarity, both positive and negative, in all of their extremes, so that when we return to the galactic state, we have the contrasting experiences to hold ourselves as differentiated and conscious souls, separate in experience yet unified in source.

That’s the deal we all agreed to. It takes hundreds of lifetimes to experience all aspects of polarity. One lifetime you are the tyrant and your co-creator is the victim, and the next those roles are reversed. Everything happens in balance and nothing is an accident. One lifetime you are a mother, next a father, a daughter, a son, and every possible archetype available over many cultures, religions, nations, and times. You choose to create beliefs, energy blocks based on those beliefs, karma to be worked out between you and your co-creators, grooved pathways which keep you in a certain frequency and a whole myriad of pathways unique to you. Everything you see and everything you believe is a construct of your own choices and beliefs.

In duality, the contrast of the opposites, you have right and left, light and dark, yin and yang, good and evil, masculine and feminine, positive and negative, etc. When you have had your fun, been there done that, have the T-shirt and the ticket stub, and you don’t want to play that polarized role any longer, just decide to be done with it. You will transition into the same frequency from which you emanate, regardless, until you have completed the fullness of spirit in a body and stand as a differentiated consciousness.

So, the question is not whether to go towards the light or not, the question is whether you stand in full integrity within your being, whether you are trapped by beliefs which sequester parts of your energy, and how this manifests in the physical as well as the astral. You’ll come back here and play more games if that is what your energy signature resonates with. You will “see” what you believe when you transition from this life into the next. You’ll be done here, or you won’t. You’ll go towards the light, or you won’t. You will be in complete harmony with the energy you hold and that is what you will emanate and be drawn to.

That’s my take on it anyway.

[thunder24]

Is de-polar-ice-ation something like Spiritual Global Warming from the intense heat of the Light?
...on a sirius note... when u die, wouldn't there be more colors then the ones we see now, and when one says clear light, is it clear as in transparent or clear as in translucent...?

[turiya]

If this Alien Domination 'paradigm' is true ...

What hope then do we HUMAN souls have against this oppressive force?

What is there to do as a collective to fend them off?

They seem to have an incredible power and advantage to the point of controlling everything on Earth.

Are we to just become hopeless in all of this?

Given that mankind is in this hopeless prison ...

Do we make a knowledgeable decision to go into death with this Intent to Go To Source, as is suggested, but not before spreading this hopeless story to others and recommend they do the same thing?

If this whole idea came out as a FACT to the world, everything would collapse overnight.

I mean, if our leaders are under their control, and KNOW about all this, I imagine trying to usurp them by revolution would be pointless, since the aliens could just come down and wipe us out, no? Or the governments would use their advanced weapons to control and subjugate us, no?

Are we to consider that there are good aliens who apparently have no power to save us? Are there no good guys?

I just don't get it.

Anyone want to enlighten me about this paradigm? I think this would be a fitting place to SUM UP the ideas of Simon and Truman and others who propagate this hopeless paradigm for those of us who by (perhaps a differently discerning) personal Intuition have a hard time following these stories.

What does the individual do to help themselves and others to overcome this? I just see it as hopeless right now, this 'world view' we are discussing.

----------------

On another note, I can only try and convey the idea (my personal opinion) that there is much more going on, and that the ones pointing out this current deception might be the most deceived (and in some cases, the most deceiving).

Truth Seekers are drawn to the internet in search of a Path, and they are being sidelined by these ideas, that may be orchestrated by great and confusing design, to draw people away from a proper Truth ...



... a truth might be that these side-lining tales are tied together in a current and mass deception of 'dis' and 'mis'-info, where it's difficult to get a read on persons, who as some suggest are CIA agents, Black Magicians, or just bold faced liars, people who are deluded and are playing into and along with a possible 'mass delusion' of mind and emotion ...

.. and a truth where Aliens are not as real and prevalent as we are being led to believe (if they are involved at all with us right now), but rather that Black Magic (which includes the conjuring of shape-shifting beings from another dimension [read: aliens]) on un-surveyable large and small scales is being used, along with (and perhaps in conjunction with) advanced technology in a masterful game of deception that will all come to light in our lifetimes ... and when it does we might be shocked to find out who were our true enemies and allies all along.

This is serious stuff, people. It's not enough to go lovey dubby into the night and day. Some of us have minds who depend on understanding Truth (and some of us are here to fight deception, of which all of these 'old' and 'new age' religions are part of)

A hopeless paradigm like this in the wrong soul could be death and derailment from an inspired lifetime.

Let's be certain and convicted of things before we go spreading 'the word' and making things worse for ourselves and others.

Lastly, given the fact (maybe) that we now read 'evidence' of 'agents of deception' work covertly through the internet (and through normally unseen dimensions perhaps) to derail and attack prevailing alternative theories and theorists, which I would suggest that also attack other and older 'systems of knowledge' as well ....

... I suggest that [I]everyone is suspect, and one can't be too suspicious ... even right here on Project Avalon.

And trust me, I don't trust my own motivation these days ... thanks to these ideas I come across here and there.

Hi Calamus

Unless one has come to the point of knowing that this life is an utter misery, one will continue to be caught up in the many dramas that this world has available. It is ONLY when one comes to the point of saying to oneself - "enough is enough!" will a transformation be possible. If one has not yet come to the point of having a complete & utter breakdown & ready to commit a suicide - only then will the possibility of having a breakthrough become possible.

In other words:
The misery of this world provides the perfect backdrop for one to turn one's attention away from it, and to look inwards to where the real treasure is to be found. The real treasure is not in doing or having, but in 'being.'

turiya :cool:

[heyokah]

I'd like to share what George Gurdfieff (1866-1949) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Gurdjieff) had to say about souls and the moon.

I loved his and his follower/partner Ouspensky's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._D._Ouspensky) work very much in those days,.... and still.

They were the first ones (for me) to talk about the moon feeding on life on earth.

Gurdjieff was a remarkable man. Some see him as a charlatan (http://www.skepdic.com/gurdjief.html) others as an influential spiritual teacher.

Gurdjieff claimed that people cannot perceive reality in their current states because they do not possess consciousness but rather live in a state of a hypnotic "waking sleep."
"Man lives his life in sleep, and in sleep he dies."
As a result of this condition, each person perceives things from a completely subjective perspective.
He asserted that people in their typical state function as unconscious automatons, but that one can "wake up" and become a different sort of human being altogether.

Gurdjieff taught that most human beings are mere “slugs” with no souls and that following death, their remaining psychic energy is “food for the Moon.”
Like a magnet, the Moon draws the fine matter of human souls into it:
“Everything living on the Earth, people, animals, plants, is food for the Moon. The Moon is a huge living being feeding upon all that lives and grows on the Earth.”

Only through an intensive effort of conscious evolution (what he called “self-remembering”) was it possible for an individual to escape being eaten by the Moon.
“The liberation that comes with the growth of mental powers and faculties is liberation from the Moon.”

Gurdjieff always maintained: Man is not truly conscious, and his actions are entirely mechanical: “Everything ‘happens,’ he cannot ‘do’ anything. He is a machine controlled by accidental shocks from outside.”


Here are some of the teachings.

*

In the cosmological schema, earth is like a mother to the moon which is still a fetus in the sense that it cannot yet “breathe” on its own, hold an atmosphere, or support life.
Gurdjieff said: “The Moon is actually a fragment of this Earth, which must now constantly maintain the Moon’s existence.”
In that sense, the moon is like a parasitic thought form.
Nevertheless, the equation is balanced because in exchange for the moon propelling our mechanical movement, we feed the moon so that it may grow and one day be born as a living planet.

As to how organic life feeds the moon, Ouspensky explained that upon death the physical body stays on the earth but the soul essence, the astral and etheric energies sloughed off by the evacuating spirit, float toward and deposit themselves upon the moon.
This comes with the dissolution of the body’s mechanical center.

During life, however, unprovoked emotional turmoil and unconscious psychological suffering produce subtle energies that feed the moon, and this much is detrimental to personal esoteric evolution.
To escape the more deleterious lunar influences Ouspensky said we must “create moon within ourselves.” By this he meant we must develop within us a driving mechanism that can take the place of the external lunar influence; in this way we would break free of the puppeteer.

Assuming for a moment a more general and practical interpretation, this simply says that in order to become free from mechanical conditioning and reactive behavior we must reinforce our sense of self-awareness so that conscious choice and awareness reigns supreme over any external stimuli that might provoke an unconscious reaction.

In this way we stop feeding the moon while living, and still properly pay our dues upon death.

http://montalk.net/matrix/114/food-for-the-moon

*

[Wind]

Amazingly well said, Gripreaper. :clap2:

[heyokah]

So, the question is not whether to go towards the light or not, the question is whether you stand in full integrity within your being, whether you are trapped by beliefs which sequester parts of your energy, and how this manifests in the physical as well as the astral. You’ll come back here and play more games if that is what your energy signature resonates with. You will “see” what you believe when you transition from this life into the next. You’ll be done here, or you won’t. You’ll go towards the light, or you won’t. You will be in complete harmony with the energy you hold and that is what you will emanate and be drawn to.

I think your take on the question is very interesting, especially the last paragraph.
Really something to reflect upon.

Thank you.

[Synchronicity]

Is depolarization something like Spiritual Global Warming from the intense heat of the Light?
...on a sirius note... when u die, wouldn't there be more colors then the ones we see now, and when one says clear light, is it clear as in transparent or clear as in translucent...?

I think it is different for everyone. Some see their favorite place they want to be or a place they dreamed of...some see colors, some light, some feel but don't see so much. It's as individual experience as living is.

[Freed Fox]

I think it is different for everyone. Some see their favorite place they want to be or a place they dreamed of...some see colors, some light, some feel but don't see so much. It's as individual experience as living is.

Indeed, perhaps vastly more so. In all our disagreement, we may be greatly underestimating the subjectivity of the hereafter.

[Synchronicity]

I think it is different for everyone. Some see their favorite place they want to be or a place they dreamed of...some see colors, some light, some feel but don't see so much. It's as individual experience as living is.

Indeed, perhaps vastly more so. In all our disagreement, we may be greatly underestimating the subjectivity of the hereafter.

I agree. When I help people step over I see many different things...seeing it as they do it seems. When I mention to families what I saw it never fails that they say, "Oh, yes! He was in the Navy so of course he walked off the deck", or "Yes, he missed his dog so much. I'm not surprised he saw him waiting for him", "Oh yes, the man who said he was Charlie was his best friend, so it makes sense he walked off with him", or with Mother or went off in a boat to fish or whatever. It isn't my frame of reference, but the loved ones seem to get it. Now, is that what the person shows me she sees and is it purely subjective, or is that literally what is there for that person? I don't know. All I know is that I have done this since I was a child, and then for several years more recently with more training, and never has anyone wanted to not go when the time came or ever seemed unhappy. And the ones that needed to help on the other side found what they needed as well and there is always guidance and healing waiting.

But then, that is my experience and the same goes for others that I know do this. I can't say it is the only one possible, and I freely accept that it is my perception and not absolute. I wouldn't ever convince anyone to go anywhere and in the last moment it is always their decision and their perception. I sure wouldn't try to talk anyone out of what felt right him or her...it isn't my path to walk. I am only responsible for my own.

[Shezbeth]

Unless one has come to the point of knowing that this life is an utter misery, one will continue to be caught up in the many dramas that this world has available. It is ONLY when one comes to the point of saying to oneself - "enough is enough!" will a transformation be possible. If one has not yet come to the point of having a complete & utter breakdown & ready to commit a suicide - only then will the possibility of having a breakthrough become possible.

In other words:
The misery of this world provides the perfect backdrop for one to turn one's attention away from it, and to look inwards to where the real treasure is to be found. The real treasure is not in doing or having, but in 'being.'

My sentiments exactly. I agree with Calamus, Jackovesk, and others as far as dispositional polarity and harmonious resonance with love (as opposed to fear),... but this post (tks Turiya) so effectively conveys my overall intuitive perception/understanding of the grand scheme that here I am trying to frame it in lace and glitter.

This world is dross, and once one inner/understands that, perhaps there is emergence. Perhaps.

[observer]

One of the popular theories being tested regarding String Theory by modern Cosmologists suggests the possibility of up to ten different universes.
In the records of antiquity from the Vedic Tradition, we find a belief in up to twelve heavens.
These two concepts are not far from a common understanding of the structure of where we reside, here within this particular reality.

Gurdjieff speaks of sending souls to the Moon in his work. (thank you heyokah) Credo Mutwa, the Zulu Shaman, speaks of Souls being sent to the Moon in his tribal legends. John Lear reveals that our Global Elite are in cahoots with the Soul Harvesting Operation on the Moon through demonic ritualistic practices. David Icke, Nigel Kerner, The Nazarene Disciples of Christ (Gnostic Christians/Essenes), all speak of Soul Harvesting, and in most cases, a Moon Connection.

This operation is all being conducted from the Moon using advanced technologies, and most probably through a hyperdimensional interface.


It's a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside of an enigma - a paradox with no clear understanding.


The objective physical evidence indicates a covert operation on the Moon.
The trends of the Elite Government indicate collusion with that covert operation.
The records left behind by those with the earliest understanding of the supernatural, indicate something has been stealing souls - they called them Archons.
There have been many individuals - John Lear among them - who have stepped-forward and told of what they know regarding what is happening on the Moon.
The evidence indicates a matrix of control from a hyperdimensional level.
This is all documented evidence, whether one wishes to believe it or not.



"So, the question is not whether to go towards the light or not, the question is whether you stand in full integrity within your being, whether you are trapped by beliefs which sequester parts of your energy, and how this manifests in the physical as well as the astral."

I fully agree with the "integrity" part of your statement, grip. The evidence, since the Dawn of Civilization, indicates this "trapped by one's beliefs" mantra is all a part of the hypnosis. Ever since Humanity began writing-down his theologies, there has been a continuous promise of a "bright new dawn.... just over the horizon".

Ask that Palestinian Mother, holding the lifeless body of her dead infant, siting in the debris of her bombed-out home, if she thinks her thoughts created her reality.

Controlling our thoughts through the artificial manipulation of our collective reality is precisely the way the control mechanism works.

Believing that our thoughts are not manipulated by advanced artificial technologies is all part of the smoke-and-mirrors deception of this particular reality.

The evidence doesn't appear (to me) to support an either/or model. There is no physical evidence of a "choice" scenario. Any Draconian Prison Operation would never allow an inmate to simply, "walk-out". That explains the global system of ley lines. It's a matrix of control.

Perhaps in some other reality the idea that our collective consciousness is free of a control element is a working model. The sad truth regarding this particular reality, based on the trail of evidence, suggests our projections are the result of a highly advanced artificial technological control mechanisms.

One can believe in this objective evidence, or one can choose to disbelieve.

This conclusion is not offered as a vehicle for fear. It is offered for the few who have come to the point in their journey where they wish some sort of relief from the obscene horrors of this particular reality.

The best description is a "feeding operation" in any other words. A denial of the existence of this Soul Harvesting Operation only leads to the "Palestinian Mother" scenario.

The only possibility of ending the two hundred thousand (+) year "eternity" of a$$-biting-loops, is for a majority of Humanity to understand how the machine works.

Only then can one avoid the traps.

Going into the light appears to be one of those traps.



But then, that is my experience and the same goes for others that I know do this. I can't say it is the only one possible, and I freely accept that it is my perception and not absolute. I wouldn't ever convince anyone to go anywhere and in the last moment it is always their decision and their perception. I sure wouldn't try to talk anyone out of what felt right him or her...it isn't my path to walk. I am only responsible for my own.

It is in the spirit of this (above) statement that I make these reports, Synchronicity.

[Sunny-side-up]

I've heard a lot of advice and seen a lot of very grounded/good information from these related posts!
and so have some idea of what I myself might do when the time comes, if it comes that is ;)

observer

One of the popular theories being tested regarding String Theory by modern Cosmologists suggests the possibility of up to ten different universes.
In the records of antiquity from the Vedic Tradition, we find a belief in up to twelve heavens.
These two concepts are not far from a common understanding of the structure of where we reside, here within this particular reality.

Yes I have read texts from different sources along these lines!

But this reply of mine now comes from my own experiences and from my gut instinct when I say:
What I saw could have been a representation of hundreds (1000's) of possible rebirth points, if this is so and each was a rebirth point to go into, and start off the next passable life as it where well! each in it's own right could in fact be a universe!
These points being laid out towards a distant focal point very far away, now!
I believe I could have stood a chance of passing down through these points to around 10-12 deep!

So maybe connecting your info and my gut feeling experience it's not so much that there are only 10-12 universes but only around 10-12 possible choices in one event relating to your own state of spiritual strength or evolution! Like stepping stones but instead of going one to the next you try jumping as many as you can! The further along the point, the more evolved it is!

Add to that if you are so spiritually evolved you can make it all the way through and past the many, many points and so break the mortal-coil and not need to be reincarnated again!


This gut reply has just come to me after reading your post observer and was off the cuff thinking.

[Sunny-side-up]

Unless one has come to the point of knowing that this life is an utter misery, one will continue to be caught up in the many dramas that this world has available. It is ONLY when one comes to the point of saying to oneself - "enough is enough!" will a transformation be possible. If one has not yet come to the point of having a complete & utter breakdown & ready to commit a suicide - only then will the possibility of having a breakthrough become possible.

In other words:
The misery of this world provides the perfect backdrop for one to turn one's attention away from it, and to look inwards to where the real treasure is to be found. The real treasure is not in doing or having, but in 'being.'

turiya

Hi turiya I just back tracked and found this post of yours :)

When I had my experience I was at that point, not a point of misery but of seeing/feeling my life was all a repeating waste of time, I was in a deep rut!

because I was where I was in my life at that time I was experimenting and doing things, pushing myself to far and all without due care and attention to my personal health/safety!

and so I experienced things, found and saw things I wouldn't normally have, things that normally take many, many dedicated years of studied exercises.

I got out of my rut and became more in-lightened and now so glad I didn't carry out my suicide plan!
but I still push myself to far at times! Doh

[we-R-one]

Greetings fellow Avalonians and guests. May I interject a thought process here that seems to be missing in most of the opinions I’ve read. The only reason I feel compelled to respond is because I see people being mislead and it bothers me to the very core. So my hope is by sharing a little scientific information, I might make a difference in the perceptions of members and viewers alike.

There is much that we don’t know, so how about we add something to the discussion that we do know? This will help one build a more solid understanding before deciding to accept something as a belief. Let’s consider some scientific facts made available to us, which might aide in our decision making process, of whether to embrace the light or run far from it.

Fact:
You Are The Creators of Your Own Reality. Want proof? See the following well known studies:
Double Slit experiment 1909, initiated the ideas of Quantum Physics

Same experiment repeated again in 1998 at the Weizmann Institute of Science in Israel, same results achieved, except this time it revealed, the more the observers watched, the greater the effect.

http://www.livescience.com/19268-quantum-double-slit-experiment-largest-molecules.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/037426_conscious_creation_subconscious_reality.htm l

What does it mean?
“By being in this world you are having an effect on this world all the time, you are a participator.”- John Wheeler, American theoretical physicist

“We could not even imagine a universe that did not contain observers (us), because…the very building blocks of the universe, are the acts of (us) observing the universe!”- John Wheeler, American theoretical physicist

Is it possible that we may never find the edge of the universe?

”The act of us searching, the act of the human heart and the human mind looking at the universe expecting to see something will always create something for us to see. The act of us looking with the expectation that something is there, is an act of creation unto itself.” - John Wheeler, American theoretical physicist


How do we create our reality?
Fact:
1986, the United States Air Force repeated the Michelson-Morley experiment. They published the results in the scientific journal called Nature. It showed that the “field” exists just as predicted. Published in August 1986, E.W. Silvertooth, “Special Relativity”, Nature, Vol 322, (August 1986) p. 590

The “field” is also known as the Matrix, Source Field, Quantum Hologram, Nature’s Mind, etc… The “field” is the reason why your thoughts feelings emotions beliefs, etc. inside, have an effect on the world beyond your body. Heart based feeling and emotion has the ability to change the DNA in our bodies. When the DNA changes, it produces quantum affects that then change our physical world at a rapid pace due to the holographic nature of our Universe.

“What you believe in your heart, is what locks the quantum possibility into the reality of this moment.” -Gregg Braden

Ok, so you’re thinking…ya so what?
Look at what’s going on around you….Are you not constantly berated with beliefs that instill fear? The advice of “don’t go into the light”…..is it a fear based belief system you’re suppose to embrace because ‘Simon says’? If this causes you to question your belief in “going towards the light”, has not this doubt influenced you and your belief that the light elicits love? And since I just showed you the science behind creating your own reality, if you believe what ‘Simon says’ which briefly suggests the very action of going to the light will cause your soul to be captured, then….that will be the experience you have, as you are the creator of your reality.

So once you process the scientific information and sources provided, ask yourself, why would you even want to embrace such a belief? Are you not giving your power away by doing so? Are you not committing yourself to another round of victimhood? Why would you put your energy into any fear based belief unless you wanted to have that experience? Seems kinda silly right?

Recognize that often, you are in essence being psyoped at every angle! See definition below. Do you see what I’m saying? The more of you who focus on the light and the concept of running from it, the more of you will create this reality as being real! ‘You creating your own reality’ is a Universal Law and those who are in control know this and use this all the time to fool you! Can you see this now? They are taking the concept of ‘creating your own reality’, and using it against you by planting belief systems based in fear. There’s a reason why “they” consistently take the stance of ‘assume the position’. Because it works! And the science is there to prove it! Turn it around on them! “They” don’t operate in the position of the famous storybook theme of the” Little Red Engine That Could”. “They” operate from the viewpoint of its `already done’. Do you follow me?

Definition of Psyop:
http://www.military.com/ContentFiles/techtv_update_PSYOPS.htm

PSYOPS or Psychological Operations: Planned operations to convey selected information and indicators to foreign audiences to influence their emotions, motives, objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of foreign governments, organizations, groups, and individuals. The purpose of psychological operations is to induce or reinforce foreign attitudes and behavior favorable to the originator's objectives. Also called PSYOP. See also consolidation psychological operations; overt peacetime psychological operations programs; perception management. (Source: U.S. Department of Defense)

So before you accept anything as a belief, whether it’s on this forum or environmentally conditioned through any trusted institution, ask yourself, is the belief one based on love or fear? Is the belief one that promotes a lower vibratory rate or a higher vibratory rate? YOU ARE THE CREATORS OF YOUR REALITY, WHICH REALITY WILL YOU CHOOSE?

Stop playing the Simon Says game (literally, lol). The heart is the pure universal tone which resonates through all things, not your mind….this is ‘the secret’. You want to win? You want to live in a reality of love and peace and walk in the light without fear? Then be that love and peace with the thought of it already being done.

And forgive me, but I must add this…you don’t have to be a ‘clear’ to create your own reality or be free of ‘engrams’. And those that think you do, please identify legitimate scientific studies that back your claim as I’d be interested in examining further, cause the one’s I’m looking at don’t support this viewpoint as that particular `protocol` doesn’t appear to have been introduced as a factor in these studies, which proves you can create your own reality regardless as to whether you're a 'clear' or not.

Please don’t ever forget this piece of scientific information posted above, as you may find the knowledge beneficial in helping you determine whether you should support a specific belief or not, including some of the one’s you already have. I also recommend if you haven’t taken the time, that you really examine The Biology of Belief by Bruce Lipton. There is no wrong or right answer to what you choose, it’s all based on the experience you wish to have. But know this…… the one thing that’s not going to change in this universe, is that your choice has an effect on the entire energy field that envelopes this planet. Stop following others; learn to think for yourself instead of giving your power away. You are only a victim if you choose to be.

Fact:
Belief systems are energy fields, which vibrate at a frequency; whoever controls the beliefs controls the matrix we live in. What a different world we would experience if the masses understood.

You want out? Stop supporting beliefs that support the false realities. Perceive your situations differently. Look at everything around you as being energy(because it is), and proceed forward knowing whatever you decide will have an effect on the energy fields within your presence and beyond. Do you choose to live in love or fear?

Why does history repeat itself over and over again? Because, like a broken record humanity continues to choose fear rather than love because they haven’t come to understand their power, the power of their heart and the magnetic effects it has on the planet. Fear nothing and love everything no matter the cost. It is only then, when the majority makes this choice, that our reality will change on this planet for the better and we'll finally be able to repel off the hamster wheel to nowhere once and for all.

Knowing this maxim, doesn’t it seem kinda ridiculous to be told to avoid the white light? Not to mention the plethora of other ludicrous ideas and beliefs we are constantly being bombarded with……There are more studies I could post and personal specific examples, but I’m trying to make the point by keeping it as simple as possible.

It’s gonna get harder and harder for those who insist on playing the games of, ‘Simon Says’ to convince the masses of their nonsense once you have absorbed the true meaning behind the scientific information that has been kept from Western civilizations for so long. The gig is up wouldn’t you say? Or better yet, for those who are already familiar with this stance and material….the gig was up long ago and we have already graduated to now living in a world of love and peace and as one, sound about right? If you want your environment to reflect or mirror the perception of love, than it might help to deny the beliefs which don’t support the concept of your desires, because 'you truly are the creators of your reality.'


* ”They” is used in the context of meaning whomever you wish to apply for this position


*****this message has been scientifically tested and Grip approved*****
:yo: Hats of to you Grip, you’re the best!


And finally….thanks for your inspiration PB, this post is dedicated to you, love to you always.



Sources:
Gregg Braden – The Divine Matrix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRPfXHni1ok

Stark Effect-
Standard Physics Text- www.physics.csbsju.edu/QM/H.11.html

Biology of Belief- Bruce Lipton Ph.D.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYYXq1Ox4sk

Study of Epigenetics
http://www.qigonginstitute.org/html/epigenetics.php

Institute of HeartMath
http://www.heartmath.org/faqs/research/research-faqs.html
Glen Rein, Ph.D., and Rollin McCraty, Ph.D., “Structural Changes in Water and DNA Associated with New Physiologically Measurable States,” Journal of Scientific Exploration vol. 8, no. 3 (1994).

“Quantum Theory Demonstrated: Observation Affects Reality” Nature (Feb 26, 1998, vol 391) pp 871-874.

How To Play The Simon Says Game :pound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyX2lvRPqIA

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Greetings fellow Avalonians and guests. May I interject a thought process here that seems to be missing in most of the opinions I’ve read. The only reason I feel compelled to respond is because I see people being mislead and it bothers me to the very core. So my hope is by sharing a little scientific information, I might make a difference in the perceptions of members and viewers alike.

There is much that we don’t know, so how about we add something to the discussion that we do know? This will help one build a more solid understanding before deciding to accept something as a belief. Let’s consider some scientific facts made available to us, which might aide in our decision making process, of whether to embrace the light or run far from it.

Fact:
You Are The Creators of Your Own Reality. Want proof? See the following well known studies:
Double Slit experiment 1909, initiated the ideas of Quantum Physics

Same experiment repeated again in 1998 at the Weizmann Institute of Science in Israel, same results achieved, except this time it revealed, the more the observers watched, the greater the effect.

http://www.livescience.com/19268-quantum-double-slit-experiment-largest-molecules.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/037426_conscious_creation_subconscious_reality.htm l

What does it mean?
“By being in this world you are having an effect on this world all the time, you are a participator.”- John Wheeler, American theoretical physicist

“We could not even imagine a universe that did not contain observers (us), because…the very building blocks of the universe, are the acts of (us) observing the universe!”- John Wheeler, American theoretical physicist

Is it possible that we may never find the edge of the universe?

”The act of us searching, the act of the human heart and the human mind looking at the universe expecting to see something will always create something for us to see. The act of us looking with the expectation that something is there, is an act of creation unto itself.” - John Wheeler, American theoretical physicist


How do we create our reality?
Fact:
1986, the United States Air Force repeated the Michelson-Morley experiment. They published the results in the scientific journal called Nature. It showed that the “field” exists just as predicted. Published in August 1986, E.W. Silvertooth, “Special Relativity”, Nature, Vol 322, (August 1986) p. 590

The “field” is also known as the Matrix, Source Field, Quantum Hologram, Nature’s Mind, etc… The “field” is the reason why your thoughts feelings emotions beliefs, etc. inside, have an effect on the world beyond your body. Heart based feeling and emotion has the ability to change the DNA in our bodies. When the DNA changes, it produces quantum affects that then change our physical world at a rapid pace due to the holographic nature of our Universe.

“What you believe in your heart, is what locks the quantum possibility into the reality of this moment.” -Gregg Braden

Ok, so you’re thinking…ya so what?
Look at what’s going on around you….Are you not constantly berated with beliefs that instill fear? The advice of “don’t go into the light”…..is it a fear based belief system you’re suppose to embrace because ‘Simon says’? If this causes you to question your belief in “going towards the light”, has not this doubt influenced you and your belief that the light elicits love? And since I just showed you the science behind creating your own reality, if you believe what ‘Simon says’ which briefly suggests the very action of going to the light will cause your soul to be captured, then….that will be the experience you have, as you are the creator of your reality.

So once you process the scientific information and sources provided, ask yourself, why would you even want to embrace such a belief? Are you not giving your power away by doing so? Are you not committing yourself to another round of victimhood? Why would you put your energy into any fear based belief unless you wanted to have that experience? Seems kinda silly right?

Recognize that often, you are in essence being psyoped at every angle! See definition below. Do you see what I’m saying? The more of you who focus on the light and the concept of running from it, the more of you will create this reality as being real! ‘You creating your own reality’ is a Universal Law and those who are in control know this and use this all the time to fool you! Can you see this now? They are taking the concept of ‘creating your own reality’, and using it against you by planting belief systems based in fear. There’s a reason why “they” consistently take the stance of ‘assume the position’. Because it works! And the science is there to prove it! Turn it around on them! “They” don’t operate in the position of the famous storybook theme of the” Little Red Engine That Could”. “They” operate from the viewpoint of its `already done’. Do you follow me?

Definition of Psyop:
http://www.military.com/ContentFiles/techtv_update_PSYOPS.htm

PSYOPS or Psychological Operations: Planned operations to convey selected information and indicators to foreign audiences to influence their emotions, motives, objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of foreign governments, organizations, groups, and individuals. The purpose of psychological operations is to induce or reinforce foreign attitudes and behavior favorable to the originator's objectives. Also called PSYOP. See also consolidation psychological operations; overt peacetime psychological operations programs; perception management. (Source: U.S. Department of Defense)

So before you accept anything as a belief, whether it’s on this forum or environmentally conditioned through any trusted institution, ask yourself, is the belief one based on love or fear? Is the belief one that promotes a lower vibratory rate or a higher vibratory rate? YOU ARE THE CREATORS OF YOUR REALITY, WHICH REALITY WILL YOU CHOOSE?

Stop playing the Simon Says game (literally, lol). The heart is the pure universal tone which resonates through all things, not your mind….this is ‘the secret’. You want to win? You want to live in a reality of love and peace and walk in the light without fear? Then be that love and peace with the thought of it already being done.

And forgive me, but I must add this…you don’t have to be a ‘clear’ to create your own reality or be free of ‘engrams’. And those that think you do, please identify legitimate scientific studies that back your claim as I’d be interested in examining further, cause the one’s I’m looking at don’t support this viewpoint as that particular `protocol` doesn’t appear to have been introduced as a factor in these studies, which proves you can create your own reality regardless as to whether you're a 'clear' or not.

Please don’t ever forget this piece of scientific information posted above, as you may find the knowledge beneficial in helping you determine whether you should support a specific belief or not, including some of the one’s you already have. I also recommend if you haven’t taken the time, that you really examine The Biology of Belief by Bruce Lipton. There is no wrong or right answer to what you choose, it’s all based on the experience you wish to have. But know this…… the one thing that’s not going to change in this universe, is that your choice has an effect on the entire energy field that envelopes this planet. Stop following others; learn to think for yourself instead of giving your power away. You are only a victim if you choose to be.

Fact:
Belief systems are energy fields, which vibrate at a frequency; whoever controls the beliefs controls the matrix we live in. What a different world we would experience if the masses understood.

You want out? Stop supporting beliefs that support the false realities. Perceive your situations differently. Look at everything around you as being energy(because it is), and proceed forward knowing whatever you decide will have an effect on the energy fields within your presence and beyond. Do you choose to live in love or fear?

Why does history repeat itself over and over again? Because, like a broken record humanity continues to choose fear rather than love because they haven’t come to understand their power, the power of their heart and the magnetic effects it has on the planet. Fear nothing and love everything no matter the cost. It is only then, when the majority makes this choice, that our reality will change on this planet for the better and we'll finally be able to repel off the hamster wheel to nowhere once and for all.

Knowing this maxim, doesn’t it seem kinda ridiculous to be told to avoid the white light? Not to mention the plethora of other ludicrous ideas and beliefs we are constantly being bombarded with……There are more studies I could post and personal specific examples, but I’m trying to make the point by keeping it as simple as possible.

It’s gonna get harder and harder for those who insist on playing the games of, ‘Simon Says’ to convince the masses of their nonsense once you have absorbed the true meaning behind the scientific information that has been kept from Western civilizations for so long. The gig is up wouldn’t you say? Or better yet, for those who are already familiar with this stance and material….the gig was up long ago and we have already graduated to now living in a world of love and peace and as one, sound about right? If you want your environment to reflect or mirror the perception of love, than it might help to deny the beliefs which don’t support the concept of your desires, because 'you truly are the creators of your reality.'


* ”They” is used in the context of meaning whomever you wish to apply for this position


*****this message has been scientifically tested and Grip approved*****
:yo: Hats of to you Grip, you’re the best!


And finally….thanks for your inspiration PB, this post is dedicated to you, love to you always.



Sources:
Gregg Braden – The Divine Matrix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRPfXHni1ok

Stark Effect-
Standard Physics Text- www.physics.csbsju.edu/QM/H.11.html (http://www.physics.csbsju.edu/QM/H.11.html)

Biology of Belief- Bruce Lipton Ph.D.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYYXq1Ox4sk

Study of Epigenetics
http://www.qigonginstitute.org/html/epigenetics.php

Institute of HeartMath
http://www.heartmath.org/faqs/research/research-faqs.html
Glen Rein, Ph.D., and Rollin McCraty, Ph.D., “Structural Changes in Water and DNA Associated with New Physiologically Measurable States,” Journal of Scientific Exploration vol. 8, no. 3 (1994).

“Quantum Theory Demonstrated: Observation Affects Reality” Nature (Feb 26, 1998, vol 391) pp 871-874.

How To Play The Simon Says Game :pound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyX2lvRPqIA


Well written We-R-One. I think it is correct that repeated thoughts create reality.

If Simon is incorrect about the light being a trap, do you think that a strong intention to return home, to return to source, could ever be a bad choice?

If Simon is correct about the light being a trap, then a strong intention to return home may be the better choice.

It may be very important to remove fear from the equation and simply look at two choices. Knowing one has the option, is being informed. Sooner or later, one option should feel better than the other.

Considering the choices and testing the answers should be an exciting adventure, looking for a tactical advantage while not being dominated by fear.

[Synchronicity]

we-R-one

That is what I was trying to say in my posts for the most part, but you said it well. I have many who ask me what is right on this or that or what should I believe, and sometimes they quote "enlightened" (well, the people say they are enlightened when they speak, but who is to say what enlightened really means and who gets to claim the state?) people who have confused them. They say someone said eating peppers is bad for them or having this set of beliefs or that one, going to the light, avoiding it, etc., and I just ask them what they feel and think about whatever it is. Many look surprised. I tell them if peppers agree with you and you like them, you think they are nutritionally okay for you, then enjoy them! You truly see something that feels right and makes sense to you, but someone supposedly in authority tells you it is EVIL or wrong or whatever, then who will you heed? Someone who has just an opinion as we all do? Or yourself? I live with my choices and I live with the consequences, and I see so many people running circles listening to that one, then that one, then them or him or .....how exhausting! Should I be afraid of them? Him? Everyone? The light? The dark? The clear? The blue? No light at all?

It's all opinion. Humans made up words to represent ideas, time, space, science, love, etc., and meanwhile the universe (s) go on despite us. So in the long run do I want to live in a corner afraid of everyone or do I want to stand up, raise my arms, and feel what I feel, try to make a positive difference in the universe...my universe where I create my reality? Do I trust my intuition and find facts that I choose to trust, or do I believe everything I am told and do as I am told? I used to do what others thought was right. Now I do what I feel and think is right. The peace comes from inside and if I'm wrong then I just am. I listen, learn, try to heal and help where I can, but no one will take that core from me. It took a long time to get here, but I choose peace and positive energy and joy.

I'm just thinking out loud, so not telling people how I choose is better than their way. If something doesn't fit that intention to make things better than I do not want to embrace it and absorb it. I'm not naive, but just choose not to fear. I prepare for the worst as best I can, but I reach for the best.

[Flash]

Throughout our life we should be looking for the truth should'nt we? Plain truth. Whatever it is. So when I die, I will still be searching for pure truth, which is part of source. If the white light is false, asking of truth and source is just your lifelong pursuit going on.

It is not about polarities, yes or not, this or that, you are dead men!! Time to get out of polarities and go for the truth, the source. I hope this will suffice.

Someone mentioned that it was strange that this thread got polarised, because it is not about dualities or polarities. It is about being one with the universe, with source. I do not care about light or not light, what I go to is the source the "clear" light (probably the truth seen) as name in the Tibethan book of the dead.

We-R-One, i love your video Simon says lol. EVen if I use it often when talking about what he said, because he is the one who said it. Not because I follow him as a guru. However, I do appreciate him much, I appreciate his guts, and his wanting to help.

I am not sure if people understand the price he has to pay in order to go public. Most would not witstand it, could not. In fact, yes I know, most people do not understand the real cost and the patience required.

[Sunny-side-up]

Greetings fellow Avalonians and guests. May I interject a thought process here that seems to be missing in most of the opinions I’ve read. The only reason I feel compelled to respond is because I see people being mislead and it bothers me to the very core. So my hope is by sharing a little scientific information, I might make a difference in the perceptions of members and viewers alike.

There is much that we don’t know, so how about we add something to the discussion that we do know? This will help one build a more solid understanding before deciding to accept something as a belief. Let’s consider some scientific facts made available to us, which might aide in our decision making process, of whether to embrace the light or run far from it.

Fact:
You Are The Creators of Your Own Reality. Want proof? See the following well known studies:
Double Slit experiment 1909, initiated the ideas of Quantum Physics

Same experiment repeated again in 1998 at the Weizmann Institute of Science in Israel, same results achieved, except this time it revealed, the more the observers watched, the greater the effect.

http://www.livescience.com/19268-quantum-double-slit-experiment-largest-molecules.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/037426_conscious_creation_subconscious_reality.htm l

What does it mean?
“By being in this world you are having an effect on this world all the time, you are a participator.”- John Wheeler, American theoretical physicist

“We could not even imagine a universe that did not contain observers (us), because…the very building blocks of the universe, are the acts of (us) observing the universe!”- John Wheeler, American theoretical physicist

Is it possible that we may never find the edge of the universe?

”The act of us searching, the act of the human heart and the human mind looking at the universe expecting to see something will always create something for us to see. The act of us looking with the expectation that something is there, is an act of creation unto itself.” - John Wheeler, American theoretical physicist


How do we create our reality?
Fact:
1986, the United States Air Force repeated the Michelson-Morley experiment. They published the results in the scientific journal called Nature. It showed that the “field” exists just as predicted. Published in August 1986, E.W. Silvertooth, “Special Relativity”, Nature, Vol 322, (August 1986) p. 590

The “field” is also known as the Matrix, Source Field, Quantum Hologram, Nature’s Mind, etc… The “field” is the reason why your thoughts feelings emotions beliefs, etc. inside, have an effect on the world beyond your body. Heart based feeling and emotion has the ability to change the DNA in our bodies. When the DNA changes, it produces quantum affects that then change our physical world at a rapid pace due to the holographic nature of our Universe.

“What you believe in your heart, is what locks the quantum possibility into the reality of this moment.” -Gregg Braden

Ok, so you’re thinking…ya so what?
Look at what’s going on around you….Are you not constantly berated with beliefs that instill fear? The advice of “don’t go into the light”…..is it a fear based belief system you’re suppose to embrace because ‘Simon says’? If this causes you to question your belief in “going towards the light”, has not this doubt influenced you and your belief that the light elicits love? And since I just showed you the science behind creating your own reality, if you believe what ‘Simon says’ which briefly suggests the very action of going to the light will cause your soul to be captured, then….that will be the experience you have, as you are the creator of your reality.

So once you process the scientific information and sources provided, ask yourself, why would you even want to embrace such a belief? Are you not giving your power away by doing so? Are you not committing yourself to another round of victimhood? Why would you put your energy into any fear based belief unless you wanted to have that experience? Seems kinda silly right?

Recognize that often, you are in essence being psyoped at every angle! See definition below. Do you see what I’m saying? The more of you who focus on the light and the concept of running from it, the more of you will create this reality as being real! ‘You creating your own reality’ is a Universal Law and those who are in control know this and use this all the time to fool you! Can you see this now? They are taking the concept of ‘creating your own reality’, and using it against you by planting belief systems based in fear. There’s a reason why “they” consistently take the stance of ‘assume the position’. Because it works! And the science is there to prove it! Turn it around on them! “They” don’t operate in the position of the famous storybook theme of the” Little Red Engine That Could”. “They” operate from the viewpoint of its `already done’. Do you follow me?

Definition of Psyop:
http://www.military.com/ContentFiles/techtv_update_PSYOPS.htm

PSYOPS or Psychological Operations: Planned operations to convey selected information and indicators to foreign audiences to influence their emotions, motives, objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of foreign governments, organizations, groups, and individuals. The purpose of psychological operations is to induce or reinforce foreign attitudes and behavior favorable to the originator's objectives. Also called PSYOP. See also consolidation psychological operations; overt peacetime psychological operations programs; perception management. (Source: U.S. Department of Defense)

So before you accept anything as a belief, whether it’s on this forum or environmentally conditioned through any trusted institution, ask yourself, is the belief one based on love or fear? Is the belief one that promotes a lower vibratory rate or a higher vibratory rate? YOU ARE THE CREATORS OF YOUR REALITY, WHICH REALITY WILL YOU CHOOSE?

Stop playing the Simon Says game (literally, lol). The heart is the pure universal tone which resonates through all things, not your mind….this is ‘the secret’. You want to win? You want to live in a reality of love and peace and walk in the light without fear? Then be that love and peace with the thought of it already being done.

And forgive me, but I must add this…you don’t have to be a ‘clear’ to create your own reality or be free of ‘engrams’. And those that think you do, please identify legitimate scientific studies that back your claim as I’d be interested in examining further, cause the one’s I’m looking at don’t support this viewpoint as that particular `protocol` doesn’t appear to have been introduced as a factor in these studies, which proves you can create your own reality regardless as to whether you're a 'clear' or not.

Please don’t ever forget this piece of scientific information posted above, as you may find the knowledge beneficial in helping you determine whether you should support a specific belief or not, including some of the one’s you already have. I also recommend if you haven’t taken the time, that you really examine The Biology of Belief by Bruce Lipton. There is no wrong or right answer to what you choose, it’s all based on the experience you wish to have. But know this…… the one thing that’s not going to change in this universe, is that your choice has an effect on the entire energy field that envelopes this planet. Stop following others; learn to think for yourself instead of giving your power away. You are only a victim if you choose to be.

Fact:
Belief systems are energy fields, which vibrate at a frequency; whoever controls the beliefs controls the matrix we live in. What a different world we would experience if the masses understood.

You want out? Stop supporting beliefs that support the false realities. Perceive your situations differently. Look at everything around you as being energy(because it is), and proceed forward knowing whatever you decide will have an effect on the energy fields within your presence and beyond. Do you choose to live in love or fear?

Why does history repeat itself over and over again? Because, like a broken record humanity continues to choose fear rather than love because they haven’t come to understand their power, the power of their heart and the magnetic effects it has on the planet. Fear nothing and love everything no matter the cost. It is only then, when the majority makes this choice, that our reality will change on this planet for the better and we'll finally be able to repel off the hamster wheel to nowhere once and for all.

Knowing this maxim, doesn’t it seem kinda ridiculous to be told to avoid the white light? Not to mention the plethora of other ludicrous ideas and beliefs we are constantly being bombarded with……There are more studies I could post and personal specific examples, but I’m trying to make the point by keeping it as simple as possible.

It’s gonna get harder and harder for those who insist on playing the games of, ‘Simon Says’ to convince the masses of their nonsense once you have absorbed the true meaning behind the scientific information that has been kept from Western civilizations for so long. The gig is up wouldn’t you say? Or better yet, for those who are already familiar with this stance and material….the gig was up long ago and we have already graduated to now living in a world of love and peace and as one, sound about right? If you want your environment to reflect or mirror the perception of love, than it might help to deny the beliefs which don’t support the concept of your desires, because 'you truly are the creators of your reality.'


* ”They” is used in the context of meaning whomever you wish to apply for this position


*****this message has been scientifically tested and Grip approved*****
:yo: Hats of to you Grip, you’re the best!


And finally….thanks for your inspiration PB, this post is dedicated to you, love to you always.



Sources:
Gregg Braden – The Divine Matrix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRPfXHni1ok

Stark Effect-
Standard Physics Text- www.physics.csbsju.edu/QM/H.11.html

Biology of Belief- Bruce Lipton Ph.D.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYYXq1Ox4sk

Study of Epigenetics
http://www.qigonginstitute.org/html/epigenetics.php

Institute of HeartMath
http://www.heartmath.org/faqs/research/research-faqs.html
Glen Rein, Ph.D., and Rollin McCraty, Ph.D., “Structural Changes in Water and DNA Associated with New Physiologically Measurable States,” Journal of Scientific Exploration vol. 8, no. 3 (1994).

“Quantum Theory Demonstrated: Observation Affects Reality” Nature (Feb 26, 1998, vol 391) pp 871-874.

How To Play The Simon Says Game :pound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyX2lvRPqIA


Well written We-R-One. I think it is correct that repeated thoughts create reality.

If Simon is incorrect about the light being a trap, do you think that a strong intention to return home, to return to source, could ever be a bad choice?

If Simon is correct about the light being a trap, then a strong intention to return home may be the better choice.

It may be very important to remove fear from the equation and simply look at two choices. Knowing one has the option, is being informed. Sooner or later, one option should feel better than the other.

Considering the choices and testing the answers should be an exciting adventure, looking for a tactical advantage and not be dominated by fear.

Ron Mauer Sr :)

Hi We-R-One, I never limit myself to one option or one system/way of being.
I never limit myself to running out of time, I know you can always keep subdividing it.
I haven't even limited matter in my reality to just be solid or non-solid, I know it can be one or the other or anywhere in-between!
The above has saved my life many times now!

I had my experiences which gave me MY OWN found doubts about the White-Light. I came away from my experiences NOT IN FEAR, but was quite elevated and thankful for being shown not only a wondrous place, but to realize there could be a deception. This wondrous place also seems to have choices of direction, not just one path towards the Blinding-White-Light (The Head Lights), you can take the time to look around first and even see other Bright Coloured Light! My wondrous place has exits not just a one way street!

So I asked my questions in a few posts and got some very good feed back from many members. The questions and replies carried on and developed.

I have never been religious, I respect religious people if they seem to be good hearted people.
I haven't had the dogma of priests telling me the law or the way!
I haven't had the White-Light drummed into my reality in such a way!
I haven't let them tell me that so called reality or what I should do,
'm my own path.

Mr Simon Parks was one of the members who gave some answers and some of them resonated but! to say I am playing 'Simon Says' like a good little sheep is a total misinterpretation!

All other members have had their varying experiences and their minds and so has Simon.
None of them are telling me what to do and nor I them, they are giving me their views and conclusions which I/we then move on from in debate!
As I have said I have had my experiences and my mind, my questions and my conclusions.

If I am a co-creator (Which I know I am) of my reality well! my reality always has more than one option in it!

Love, Peace and Big Hugs to every one!

[thunder24]

why do people think they are not "one with the universe" now!?

Is it the liar or believers fault!?

[we-R-one]

I think it is correct that repeated thoughts create reality.
May we never forget this....we have to learn to speak the language of the source field with the heart not the mind, that's what science is showing us, and I can attest to that from having my own personal experience which validated this before the science had been discovered, so I know this is true.


If Simon is incorrect about the light being a trap, do you think that a strong intention to return home, to return to source, could ever be a bad choice?

I don't believe Simon is incorrect, because if that's what he truly believes, than it is 'so' in his world, his reality. But if you look at what science tells us, it doesn't mean it's necessarily 'so' for everyone else if they chose to believe otherwise. To accept his reality as the only possibility, defies the Universal Law of creating your own reality don't-cha ya think? At least for me it does.


If Simon is correct about the light being a trap, then a strong intention to return home may be the better choice.
Same answer as above, Simon's answer can't be the only answer.


It may be very important to remove fear from the equation and simply look at two choices. Knowing one has the option, is being informed. Sooner or later, one option should feel better than the other.

And yes, I might add the best choice is what comes from your heart, not because someone 'says'. I merely posted the science with the point of making it clear that everyone has a choice. I wanted to offer empowerment to help those who may be confused by the information.

[we-R-one]

we-R-one

That is what I was trying to say in my posts for the most part, but you said it well. I have many who ask me what is right on this or that or what should I believe, and sometimes they quote "enlightened" (well, the people say they are enlightened when they speak, but who is to say what enlightened really means and who gets to claim the state?) people who have confused them. They say someone said eating peppers is bad for them or having this set of beliefs or that one, going to the light, avoiding it, etc., and I just ask them what they feel and think about whatever it is. Many look surprised. I tell them if peppers agree with you and you like them, you think they are nutritionally okay for you, then enjoy them! You truly see something that feels right and makes sense to you, but someone supposedly in authority tells you it is EVIL or wrong or whatever, then who will you heed? Someone who has just an opinion as we all do? Or yourself? I live with my choices and I live with the consequences, and I see so many people running circles listening to that one, then that one, then them or him or .....how exhausting! Should I be afraid of them? Him? Everyone? The light? The dark? The clear? The blue? No light at all?

It's all opinion. Humans made up words to represent ideas, time, space, science, love, etc., and meanwhile the universe (s) go on despite us. So in the long run do I want to live in a corner afraid of everyone or do I want to stand up, raise my arms, and feel what I feel, try to make a positive difference in the universe...my universe where I create my reality? Do I trust my intuition and find facts that I choose to trust, or do I believe everything I am told and do as I am told? I used to do what others thought was right. Now I do what I feel and think is right. The peace comes from inside and if I'm wrong then I just am. I listen, learn, try to heal and help where I can, but no one will take that core from me. It took a long time to get here, but I choose peace and positive energy and joy.

I'm just thinking out loud, so not telling people how I choose is better than their way. If something doesn't fit that intention to make things better than I do not want to embrace it and absorb it. I'm not naive, but just choose not to fear. I prepare for the worst as best I can, but I reach for the best.

Yes, exhausting is right. Amazing how much simpler things become when you stop living in fear. The beauty is....you can't make a mistake no matter what you choose, your choice is a reflection of what works for you in that moment of time.

[we-R-one]

Throughout our life we should be looking for the truth should'nt we? Plain truth. Whatever it is. So when I die, I will still be searching for pure truth, which is part of source. If the white light is false, asking of truth and source is just your lifelong pursuit going on. The truth lies within the 'source field', and because you're tied to it(scientifically proven) be at ease, you already know the truth. God, I wish I could explain this portion better, but this isn't the thread to do it in and finding words will be difficult until you experience it for yourself. As you evolve, you will learn how to access it to acquire the knowledge you seek. I have personally done this myself, though I'm only at the initial stages of learning, but I know enough that this can be achieved. I wonder how many times in the past we have accessed the information without even knowing that's what we were doing.



We-R-One, i love your video Simon says lol. EVen if I use it often when talking about what he said, because he is the one who said it. Not because I follow him as a guru. However, I do appreciate him much, I appreciate his guts, and his wanting to help.
I understand.....that video is hilarious and so fitting when you watch it. For what it's worth I make fun of myself too by posting it as I use to play the very game, but ask my mom, much to her annoyance it didn't work for very long.....now I know why.

[Flash]

Throughout our life we should be looking for the truth should'nt we? Plain truth. Whatever it is. So when I die, I will still be searching for pure truth, which is part of source. If the white light is false, asking of truth and source is just your lifelong pursuit going on. The truth lies within the 'source field', and because you're tied to it(scientifically proven) be at ease, you already know the truth. God, I wish I could explain this portion better, but this isn't the thread to do it in and finding words will be difficult until you experience it for yourself. As you evolve, you will learn how to access it to acquire the knowledge you seek. I have personally done this myself, though I'm only at the initial stages of learning, but I know enough that this can be achieved. I wonder how many times in the past we have accessed the information without even knowing that's what we were doing.



We-R-One, i love your video Simon says lol. EVen if I use it often when talking about what he said, because he is the one who said it. Not because I follow him as a guru. However, I do appreciate him much, I appreciate his guts, and his wanting to help.
I understand.....that video is hilarious and so fitting when you watch it. For what it's worth I make fun of myself too by posting it as I use to play the very game, but ask my mom, much to her annoyance it didn't work for very long.....now I know why.

"The truth lies within the 'source field', and because you're tied to it(scientifically proven) be at ease, you already know the truth."

Yes, this is what i was trying to impart here. Same views, two ways of expressing them.

"As you evolve, you will learn how to access it to acquire the knowledge you seek."

Who told you I have not? You know, every life has its own plan, called karma (I do not see it as the retribution stuff, just as the plan). Sometimes the plan requires not to remember until a late part of life, not because you are not evolved yet, but because it would harm the life plan if your knowing awakens too early. Lots of us in Avalon are very developed. The timing at which it shows depends on the life plan and its mission (name it learnings if you wish - or givings).

[we-R-one]

Throughout our life we should be looking for the truth should'nt we? Plain truth. Whatever it is. So when I die, I will still be searching for pure truth, which is part of source. If the white light is false, asking of truth and source is just your lifelong pursuit going on. The truth lies within the 'source field', and because you're tied to it(scientifically proven) be at ease, you already know the truth. God, I wish I could explain this portion better, but this isn't the thread to do it in and finding words will be difficult until you experience it for yourself. As you evolve, you will learn how to access it to acquire the knowledge you seek. I have personally done this myself, though I'm only at the initial stages of learning, but I know enough that this can be achieved. I wonder how many times in the past we have accessed the information without even knowing that's what we were doing.



We-R-One, i love your video Simon says lol. EVen if I use it often when talking about what he said, because he is the one who said it. Not because I follow him as a guru. However, I do appreciate him much, I appreciate his guts, and his wanting to help.
I understand.....that video is hilarious and so fitting when you watch it. For what it's worth I make fun of myself too by posting it as I use to play the very game, but ask my mom, much to her annoyance it didn't work for very long.....now I know why.

"The truth lies within the 'source field', and because you're tied to it(scientifically proven) be at ease, you already know the truth."

Yes, this is what i was trying to impart here. Same views, two ways of expressing them.

"As you evolve, you will learn how to access it to acquire the knowledge you seek."

Who told you I have not? You know, every life has its own plan, called karma (I do not see it as the retribution stuff, just as the plan). Sometimes the plan requires not to remember until a late part of life, not because you are not evolved yet, but because it would harm the life plan if your knowing awakens too early. Lots of us in Avalon are very developed. The timing at which it shows depends on the life plan and its mission (name it learnings if you wish - or givings).

Sorry Flash I wasn't able to interpret that out of your post. The way you worded it, made it seem that you did not have the understanding of being able to access the source field, so that's why I said what I said. When you said this, "Throughout our life we should be looking for the truth should'nt we?" My thought was you didn't realize you could access the source field for the answers of truth you seek, because if you knew this, why would you ask this question? That was my thinking. For me, I don't worry so much about looking for the truth anymore as I know the truths already because I'm tied to the very source field where they exist, which says to me I would already know what they are. The memories don't lie within your mind, they lie within the source field which is an energy field. Does that make sense? Easy to misunderstand someone as we are not able to talk face to face.

To me, in order to access the field you would have to develop a skill set in order to acquire the information as it requires a person to speak the language of the field for it to work. I probably could have said that better. It's not that anyone can't do it, but if you're not evolved in your understanding of how it works, the task will seem impossible. Yes I agree, we all have different life plans.

[we-R-one]

Hi We-R-One, I never limit myself to one option or one system/way of being.
I never limit myself to running out of time, I know you can always keep subdividing it.
I haven't even limited matter in my reality to just be solid or non-solid, I know it can be one or the other or anywhere in-between!
The above has saved my life many times now!

I had my experiences which gave me MY OWN found doubts about the White-Light. I came away from my experiences NOT IN FEAR, but was quite elevated and thankful for being shown not only a wondrous place, but to realize there could be a deception. This wondrous place also seems to have choices of direction, not just one path towards the Blinding-White-Light (The Head Lights), you can take the time to look around first and even see other Bright Coloured Light! My wondrous place has exits not just a one way street!

So I asked my questions in a few posts and got some very good feed back from many members. The questions and replies carried on and developed.

I have never been religious, I respect religious people if they seem to be good hearted people.
I haven't had the dogma of priests telling me the law or the way!
I haven't had the White-Light drummed into my reality in such a way!
I haven't let them tell me that so called reality or what I should do,
'm my own path.

Mr Simon Parks was one of the members who gave some answers and some of them resonated but! to say I am playing 'Simon Says' like a good little sheep is a total misinterpretation!

All other members have had their varying experiences and their minds and so has Simon.
None of them are telling me what to do and nor I them, they are giving me their views and conclusions which I/we then move on from in debate!
As I have said I have had my experiences and my mind, my questions and my conclusions.

If I am a co-creator (Which I know I am) of my reality well! my reality always has more than one option in it!

Love, Peace and Big Hugs to every one!

You might not be playing the Simon Says game but there are still those reading this who are and that was the point of the post. Maybe the title of the thread "don't go to the light", should be changed..though I know that wasn't necessarily the intention of the original poster, they merely brought it up for dialogue.

Just because 'Simon says' doesn't make it so for everyone. I didn't say that Simon was wrong all I'm saying is you can't put a one-size fits all on the experience because it defies what the new science is telling us and I wanted to put that science in front of people who might not be aware. My concern is for those who read this thread and rely on others to decide for them because they don't know where to go for information that could help them make a better decision. I didn't see anyone post any science as part of their reasoning behind their belief. Beliefs are energy fields. The way our reality is set up, is something only exists if we seek it out.

Remember this quote:
”The act of us searching, the act of the human heart and the human mind looking at the universe expecting to see something will always create something for us to see. The act of us looking with the expectation that something is there, is an act of creation unto itself.” - John Wheeler, American theoretical physicist

That is what the science is telling us.

[Ealiss]

What a wonderful post we-R-one. I agree whole-heartedly.

People like you are rare. I better not say anything else because I will only annoy people. I am simply awaiting the result of earth turning up the volume (frequency).

[Tony]

Never forget your natural common sense.

When the light is on, we see clearly.
Light is clarity, that is why we use the word enLIGHTenment,
it means pure seeing/awareness.
Why would anyone want to reach enDIMment?

There is only one force in the universe
that wishes us dullness, and that's the dark forces.


Never forget your natural common sense.




Tony

[Sunny-side-up]

Hi we-R-one and yes the title of that post dose need changing.
The title as it stands sounds like an order or a affirmation,
'There are queries about going to the Light'
maybe a better title!


we-R-one
I didn't see anyone post any science as part of their reasoning behind their belief. Beliefs are energy fields. The way our reality is set up, is something only exists if we seek it out.

Most of this debate is concerned with personal spiritual and out of the norm experiences and observations, not science?

Remember this quote:
”The act of us searching, the act of the human heart and the human mind looking at the universe expecting to see something will always create something for us to see. The act of us looking with the expectation that something is there, is an act of creation unto itself.” - John Wheeler, American theoretical physicist

That is what the science is telling us.


Yes we-R-one and that to me is one reason Science has to keep changing it's mind?

Which I believe it has done quite allot recently!
How dose, to mention one name 'Nassim Haramein's' new views of reality, black-holes, particles and the universe resonate with you?

BTW Don't think I'm anti-science but! most printed mainstream science is exactly that 'Mainstream'!
I'm not a big fan of Mainstream anything at the moment!

Same comparison could be the Health and medicine business, most people only see and rely on Mainstream version of reality!

This 'White Light' topic obviously connects and or concerns allot of Avalon members.
I hope they get what they need from the debate by asking their questions and or adding their experiences.
I hope they get what they need from the debate by using their own discretion and discernment.

we-R-one I'm glad you are pointing out concerns, I have not posted so much in this Avalon because I also don't won't to harm people! the possible 'White Light Trap' is a concern that I have found within myself that I think is important, important enough to debate about in open chat.

Love, Peace and Hugs
Alan

PS we-R-one I will be backtracking and try to develop my connection to the 'source field' I was once more connected but other negative events broke me.

Maybe you could add a little 'Best version links' to this essential subject!

[Becky]

please delete - double posted

[observer]

Allow me to point to one consideration you might wish to make, we-R-one, regarding what John Wheeler (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68916-Don-t-go-into-the-light-Simon-Parkes&p=804713&viewfull=1#post804713) didn't address.

What you are referring to as a “Source Field” is called by the scientific community, "The Quantum Field of Infinite Potential". The double-slit experiment demonstrates how this Field, through observation, which prior to observation exists only as a field of energy, is collapsed into physical matter.

If then, this is a Field of Infinite Potential being individually collapsed into reality, why don't we all see something different when we perceive the same infinite field? Why do we all commonly collapse that energy into the manifestation of, say, an apple? Or, what makes us all see the same matter when we view this Infinite Field of Energy?

The only plausible explanation to this phenomenon is that there is some sort of control mechanism, outside of our perception, that is controlling the Quantum field of Infinite Potential.

So, for someone to use the double-slit experiment as an example of how we all create our own reality, one must further conclude that we are all preprogrammed in some way to collectively collapse this infinite field of energy into similar matter.

Regardless of how this works, it is a control mechanism.

The physical evidence points to anomalous structures on the surface of the Moon. Contrary to what some of the members are saying about these structures being photoshopped, I would suggest it is more likely that it is the quantum field of infinite potential being “photoshopped”- by highly advanced artificial mind manipulation technologies. That’s where the evidence points.

A mass realization of how this phenomenon works is the first step in releasing one's eternal soul from the trap.

This has nothing to do with fear, it has more to do with gaining a tactical advantage.

[Becky]

Hi We-R-one,
Thank you for your post, it's very interesting and enlightening in places.

I would like to say though that Simon does not mean to make us fearful with what he says and brings out into the light/open. Sometimes he's not as clear as he could be, or could elaborate more to enable people to get a bigger/better picture, but he certainly doesn't intend to mislead us. He says truths as he sees/understands them, then it is up to us as individuals to interpret that how we can. But he never intended to be a 'guru' and he certainly doesn't, as the 'Simon says' video demonstrates, 'say one thing and do another'. Simon lives his life as truthfully as he can. In his words to me...
'I am here to serve people ~ to combat evil and spread the awakening.'

This topic is vital, and for the most part people have been discussing it openly and from lots of different valuable viewpoints which have been enlightening to us all. We can all choose a pathway/idea that we find resonates the most with each of us, as individuals, at any one time.

What has crept in from time to time is a negative energy/attitude towards Simon - who incidentally has not even seen this thread - and this is not helpful or necessary as his quote has been taken out of context and given a different energy/angle/edge to that which it was originally delivered. So there's a slight hint or an outright statement that he is out to manipulate us. I think anyone who has worked with him would know from their heart that this is not true.

Just think this needs saying.

[Flash]

Becky and Observer, your posts are very important. Yes, there is a common field, that we agreed upon, either to participate in or to create or co-create. And this field we agreed on most probably can be manipulated by us AND by others, as long as a common, conscious or unconscious agreement is acquired. The trick then is to make us unconscious if one wants to control the field.

The field, controlled by some forces other than humans, would have been nevertheless unconsciously agreed upon. The trick is making us and keeping us unconscious. And us, accepting it. This is precisely why it is so important to see what is going on in order to Wake up.

The choice has to do with accepting to see the ways it worked and what it/we create. And chosing our créations. The problem is that it is unconciously chosen, so some other can imprint their needs/values/will on it. The choice is to Wake up and see, then chose. It has to be fair.

Then there is THE TRUTH. And that truth has to do with the field itself and its operation rules, which we call universal laws or laws of the universe. When broken, there is retribution, which is not a hammer on your head but the simple cause and effect rebounding on those who broke it.

Because of our agreements to blindness and chosing to be controlled, we brake it time and time again. As well as our "captors". So at one point, it ought to change, the effect being felt.

And yes, there is a META position from which we can see, if we want, the true situation and its risks/benefits on the higher self, soul and over soul levels. But we are not at this point yet, we are in 3D, making the decisions, chosing and making the jump if we wish, right now.

Right now, we are at a crossing and choice will have or has to be made. Will it be unconscious or not. Will we give up our sovereignty again?????? or decide to be strong enough to gain it back???

Very hard to explain, but hey we have try.

[Hervé]

[...]

.... The only reason I feel compelled to respond is because I see people being mislead and it bothers me to the very core.

[...]

Hi "the-one-you-are" and welcome back!

See, it is for that very reason that some of us put a caveat on that “White Light” thingy since some of us have been able to recall the experience of that “Soylent Green” recycler and back to the grind.

Also to neglect this kind of evidence:


One way to look at this is to consider that, let's say for the last 10,000 years, there hasn't been much more than one iota of improvement on Earth from any of these dudes that went into that white light... when back on the ground... How come?

See?

10,000 years of prayers, hopes, incense burning, sacrifices, immolations, etc... and have a good look at where we are at.... I don't know about anyone else but I find that such an end result is an indication that there is something terribly not quite right.

… and not taking into account 10,000 years of being led down the garden path is pure folly.

This, by the way, lends heavy credence to those catholic/christian preacher dudes who keep throwing at one’s face that one has only one life to make it out. Otherwise it’s back to the memory shredder and start over again.

You use results from science to demonstrate your point and that’s well taken: I have no problems with that whatsoever.

However, physics has this pesky law of reciprocality and therefore the corollary of one truth is also true…

In other words, if anything works one way, it also works in reverse. Human technology is now at a stage where these white light, honey or vortex traps can be understood:

Take orbs (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?29822-Orbs) (particularly this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?29822-Orbs&p=302961&viewfull=1#post302961) as well as this one (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?29822-Orbs&p=595785&viewfull=1#post595785) <---- click) that are now being seen on digital snapshots.

Prior to digital cameras, they didn’t “exist” except for psychics/clairvoyants. Now, they are being revealed and “captured” on memory cards.

That they are being made visible via these digital cameras is something of extreme significance because it implies that these “spirits’ energies” floating around are interfering with the light wavelength used and, the corollary is that, that same light is interfering with them and, therefore, can be used to influence them via some waves/frequency/resonance of the electromagnetic spectrum.

Moreover, when an energy of “love” is directed at something, conversely, that 'something" can be made to “record” that energy/vibration/frequency/resonance/harmonic and be broadcasted back at the push of a button.

… right there you’ve got that “white light” trap as a carrier wave embedded with whatever matches the longing of the wandering spirit as a mirroring of the resonating frequency.

This is most probably also where the Buddhist’s quest for “detachment” comes from since any longing or desire gets to be a potential trap… “they’ll” give it to you: “you want to go home? No problem, this way, follow me!” ... and the Bardo Thodol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bardo_Thodol) was implemented to help avoid the many pitfalls one is bound to encounter on the other side of life.

So, if what's above is actually, really truly understood, what do you think is the actual psyop?

Personally I tend to think it is the one that’s currently being promoted via mass MSM distribution now that the main “religions” are fast losing their grip on populations.

“Out there” on the other side of life, as you already know, one creates one’s reality a lot faster and the “enslavers” have quite a head’s up on “us” humans in creating “their” reality and manipulating that same energy field.

Anything created on this Earth “below” has been weaponized one way or another especially in the field of mind control via electromagnetic frequencies/resonances/harmonics/waves; so, guess what one is going to run into in that “above” which this “below” is a mirror of?

[Delight]

If then, this is a Field of Infinite Potential being individually collapsed into reality, why don't we all see something different when we perceive the same infinite field? Why do we all commonly collapse that energy into the manifestation of, say, an apple? Or, what makes us all see the same matter when we view this Infinite Field of Energy?

The only plausible explanation to this phenomenon is that there is some sort of control mechanism, outside of our perception, that is controlling the Quantum field of Infinite Potential.

Bottom line on the whole discussion IMO is that an observer matters. Another way I would understand "control mechanism"is "process" or "the way things work" based on underlying structure. If it is the way things work that there is feedback mechansim (reverberating) between an observer and a field, it is like the chicken and the egg...which was first (I am not saying I know).

When we-R-one was writing, I felt her passion for her own understanding of the process. It seems it must have given her a perspective and she seems her intention is to help others reache her sense of sure footedness. That seems to me very supportive to my own sense of assurance that I am capable of perfect timing and inner guidance.

I have been thinking about an unraveling where the ideas offered hold a chaotic mess of contradictions. One will not be able to depend on another. Regarding Simon Parkes, I am not able to find very much that is not details of what he heard or saw. he did say we are creators and if we know that, we will be OK (my paraphrase)

There is no way to sort anything out for ourselves without the inner guidance of our beacon and our anchor of KNOWING. It creates a swirl of "right time right place". When you feel centered, connected to an inner and owned larger context plus deeply grounded, a coherence happens that one can feel. IMO, the source field responds to frequency and when we are in coherence, a clear pattern emerges. There is IMO no wrong frequency. We can modulate and yet, the clarity of our ability to vibrate is a key feature...not all muddy and wonky.

If you exercise the muscle of clear coherent awareness and attention, there seems to be a change in the way the source field responds. It is impossible to describe except that the interference one identifies as stress seems to be eliminated .One knows that one can be very relaxed and the smooth and resounding place of peace changes all relationships.

Whatever obstacles to confidence in one's own ability seems the place to chip away IMO to be the most powerful creative being in form.

[donk]

Never forget your natural common sense.

When the light is on, we see clearly.
Light is clarity, that is why we use the word enLIGHTenment,
it means pure seeing/awareness.
Why would anyone want to reach enDIMment?

There is only one force in the universe
that wishes us dullness, and that's the dark forces.


Never forget your natural common sense.




Tony

Are you sure they “wish us dullness”, or perhaps rather they are just taking our light for themselves.

That’s the pattern I see over and over, as above, so below. This existence seems to be an intricate weaving of different manifestations of energy transfers…and we are discussing a particular one that happens to be manufactured into our greatest concern as a species—what happens to our consciousness when it leaves this physical vehicle.

To me, that tends to show that both Simon and wRo are correct—those that obtained and continue take (and hide) the light (information) from us, would definitely do what they could to manipulate it—by “their” nature, it is what “they” do. While at the same time, if we’ve obtained enough light/information/science, we should be able to exercise our will in a way that best suits us (create the reality we want).

Detachment means finding the choice that suits us despite those that would impose their will on us…throwing free will into the infinite energies woven to form the tapestry we find ourselves makes it so nothing is constant except change. Those with more understanding (light, whether stolen or honestly realized…it’s really “neutral”, to me—just “what is”) are more able to manipulate—who’s to say their “psyop” is any better or worse than what you would you do, in that position?

[Finefeather]

Are you sure they “wish us dullness”, or perhaps rather they are just taking our light for themselves.

If that was the case and we assume that light is 'good' and dark is 'bad'...would that not mean that 'they' would now be full of light...and would that not then make them 'good'...and 'good' people don't take from 'bad' people...do they? :)

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Detachment means finding the choice that suits us despite those that would impose their will on us…throwing free will into the infinite energies woven to form the tapestry we find ourselves makes it so nothing is constant except change. Those with more understanding (light, whether stolen or honestly realized…it’s really “neutral”, to me—just “what is”) are more able to manipulate—who’s to say their “psyop” is any better or worse than what you would you do, in that position?

I suspect we switch sides, or may be simultaneously playing both roles, manipulator and the manipulated, dark team and light team. We may be playing the game with ourselves, learning the values of freedom and sovereignty. Maybe we will have a big party :dance: and lots of laughter :grouphug: when this game is over and we start the next chapter of our never ending adventure.

[Sunny-side-up]

Are you sure they “wish us dullness”, or perhaps rather they are just taking our light for themselves.

If that was the case and we assume that light is 'good' and dark is 'bad'...would that not mean that 'they' would now be full of light...and would that not then make them 'good'...and 'good' people don't take from 'bad' people...do they? :)

It's one thing to take something but! it's what you do with it (or can do with it) that gives an end result!

One creature taking 'White Light' form a totally different creature and then using it for it's own distorted needs will not make them Good. It might give them food energies though!

[Tony]

Never forget your natural common sense.

When the light is on, we see clearly.
Light is clarity, that is why we use the word enLIGHTenment,
it means pure seeing/awareness.
Why would anyone want to reach enDIMment?

There is only one force in the universe
that wishes us dullness, and that's the dark forces.


Never forget your natural common sense.




Tony

Are you sure they “wish us dullness”, or perhaps rather they are just taking our light for themselves.

That’s the pattern I see over and over, as above, so below. This existence seems to be an intricate weaving of different manifestations of energy transfers…and we are discussing a particular one that happens to be manufactured into our greatest concern as a species—what happens to our consciousness when it leaves this physical vehicle.

To me, that tends to show that both Simon and wRo are correct—those that obtained and continue take (and hide) the light (information) from us, would definitely do what they could to manipulate it—by “their” nature, it is what “they” do. While at the same time, if we’ve obtained enough light/information/science, we should be able to exercise our will in a way that best suits us (create the reality we want).

Detachment means finding the choice that suits us despite those that would impose their will on us…throwing free will into the infinite energies woven to form the tapestry we find ourselves makes it so nothing is constant except change. Those with more understanding (light, whether stolen or honestly realized…it’s really “neutral”, to me—just “what is”) are more able to manipulate—who’s to say their “psyop” is any better or worse than what you would you do, in that position?


This is what is known as being caught up in fantasy! Our true nature - yours and mine - is pure light. It is clouded by ignorance, confusion and fantasy. Nobody can steal it because it is not a "thing" to be stolen. There are silly beings who feed off overreaction and wild emotions. We become overexcited, and feed off one another.

We have two potentials: light energy and dark energy.
The light energy is the realisation of our true nature.
The dark is when we forget. We always have free will.
It all depends on what attracts your mind.

As you say, "as above, so below": if we feel compassionate, it is the compassion of the enlightened ones.
If we give in to our negative emotions, we are blessed by what people may term the Archons.

Enlightenment is within us all. Endarkenment is within us all. It is always our choice. However, the thinking mind can be subject to distortion by those who are misguided.

We are always in charge :cool:

Tony

[NancyV]

Light can be used as a method of attracting souls to a particular "place" where they can be delayed/trapped for a while and it can be a very valuable lesson. If one has not yet realized their powers of creation and absolute control they can be subject to others attempting to and often succeeding in controlling them. Eventually they will tire of being controlled, even if that control is by a "god" who seems to be benevolent and loving. So light has many aspects and can be used as an attractor tool in it's lower vibrational frequencies. The higher and highest frequencies of light also strongly attract us. Light is love and varying frequencies have greater or lesser intensities of love. We are attracted to love since that is what we are as Source.

There are many so called heavens where many souls remain and are trapped only by their own acceptance, acquiescence and beliefs. Some will eventually find their own powers of creation and will leave, others will be reborn, others will remain for an indeterminate time (time doesn't mean much at this point). Some will be aided by those who have chosen to help free souls who are trapped in either heavens or hells. All they have to do is to change their beliefs, tap into love and accept their power of creation. Then they can leave and the trap is no longer a trap but just a lesson along the way.

I don't look on this process as a negative or diabolical one, even if some who play these games are motivated by the desire for power and control over others. Others are actually helping more unevolved souls to evolve at a pace that suits them. As long as an individual soul accepts or is influenced by fear it will be able to be controlled. Love conquers fear and one who has merged into love completely cannot be controlled and has no fear. But if a soul is not quite ready to reach full power and merge with Source, these different planes and dimensions (including this earth reality we're aware of right now) all contain valuable lessons and exciting games, no matter if they seem to be hellish or heavenly.

We choose to be here and we choose to have an awareness of being apart from Source. I don't know the reason why we, as Source, choose to come into the Creation. But the Source and the Creation are in an endless loop with many dimensions to be experienced. At the same time the Source and the Creation are one and the same. It's hard for my mind to really comprehend this and I only have total knowingness when I am completely merged with Source....and then it doesn't matter at all. As Source I don't look for reasons I just AM...and it's all perfect. It is in the Creation where we play the games and vie for energy, power and control in various ways. So we are playing with other aspects of ourselves, the positive/loving and the negative/evil. We are not separate but only perceive ourselves as separate. It must be fun or we wouldn't continue doing it!

[Finefeather]

It's one thing to take something but! it's what you do with it (or can do with it) that gives an end result!

One creature taking 'White Light' form a totally different creature and then using it for it's own distorted needs will not make them Good. It might give them food energies though!
My post was meant as a joke if you notice the smiley :) but anyway...
I think you might be confusing 'light' with energy or prana which is in fact the stuff which many parasitic 'astral' entities feed on...including emotional energy.

If you use the word light in the context of consciousness or enlightenment then you should not forget that no Being is without some form of consciousness...and consciousness is not energy.

If you use the word light as is used usually...then it also makes no sense, because all Beings on earth experience the light of the sun or a bulb etc...which in terms of darkness could also be related to awareness or consciousness..."I can see now that the light is on".

So I cannot for the life of me see how light in any form can be used to feed anyone...oh! wait I can...If there is light I can see what's in the cupboard, so I can safely choose the cornflakes over the rat poison :)

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Hope you still have a sense of humour

[Finefeather]

There are many so called heavens where many souls remain and are trapped only by their own acceptance, acquiescence and beliefs.
Nice...real...accurate post Nancy...thanks,
I think it is important to make it quite clear that the 'trapped' is not an event conspired by, lets say astral beings, but a self inflicted trap caused by ignorance and maybe just a little too much curiosity of things we should not mess with.
Entrapment, in this regard, is a mind game.

[Delight]

So I cannot for the life of me see how light in any form can be used to feed anyone...oh! wait I can...If there is light I can see what's in the cupboard, so I can safely choose the cornflakes over the rat poison :)

Hope you still have a sense of humour

Laughing is the best medicine ever.

I heard the most amazing story about a man named Peter Erbe who wrote a book I like very much! (From Tragic to Magic: God I AM). I wondered about him then heard through people who know him that he "died" (whatever that means). I heard some stories that seem as though while he "lived" he was walking his fine talk.

One story is that a clear unmarked liquid (turned out to be a solvent type fluid) at a friend's house was mistaken for water. Someone poured it into glaesses. Peter Erbe just drank it down in one gulp. The other person sipped gagged, spit and freaked out. Peter's response was...I already drank it and I will be just fine and he was just fine. Did he transmute everything by some light he shone?

Apparently Peter Erbe was fearless so lived full on.
That is the kind of testimony I am glad to hear from a teacher kind of person.

Someone just sent this to me and it fits what seems the preparation for any phase of life IMO. The thread is about the light after death. Then it touched on the light here and now. Then it also implies that someone is experiencing life as light or dark shades.

What if our religion was each other
If our practice was our life
If prayer, our words.
What if the temple was the earth
If forests were our church
If holy water - the rivers, lakes, and oceans
What if meditation was our relationships
If the Teacher was life
If wisdom was self-knowledge
If love was the center of our being

~ Ganga White

[Finefeather]

What if our religion was each other
If our practice was our life
If prayer, our words.
What if the temple was the earth
If forests were our church
If holy water - the rivers, lakes, and oceans
What if meditation was our relationships
If the Teacher was life
If wisdom was self-knowledge
If love was the center of our being

~ Ganga White
Dear Delight
I think that just about sums up the real goal IMO...love it...thanks.
Love you
Ray

[donk]

Are you sure they “wish us dullness”, or perhaps rather they are just taking our light for themselves.

If that was the case and we assume that light is 'good' and dark is 'bad'...would that not mean that 'they' would now be full of light...and would that not then make them 'good'...and 'good' people don't take from 'bad' people...do they? :)

Well, all humor aside....I hoped to make two points with that statement--that I feel it is useful to not "judge" or "label" light as good--and not judge anyone either way. Especially in the sense of "wishing harm on us".

Why would a being do that--unless it was in some way "good" for them? (and therefore their wishes about our condition are only secondary, from their serivce to theirselves...)

[seeker/reader]

removed quotes from private thread

[we-R-one]

we-R-one
I didn't see anyone post any science as part of their reasoning behind their belief. Beliefs are energy fields. The way our reality is set up, is something only exists if we seek it out.

Remember this quote:
”The act of us searching, the act of the human heart and the human mind looking at the universe expecting to see something will always create something for us to see. The act of us looking with the expectation that something is there, is an act of creation unto itself.” - John Wheeler, American theoretical physicist

That is what the science is telling us.


Most of this debate is concerned with personal spiritual and out of the norm experiences and observations, not science?

Yes, I understand, but science is catching up, which is why I posted the information. I'm surprised no one else did, as I know there are many others familiar with the studies. For me, having this understanding kinda kills the debate in many arguments wouldn't you say?



How dose, to mention one name 'Nassim Haramein's' new views of reality, black-holes, particles and the universe resonate with you?
Honestly, I'm familiar with the name but not his work. Most of what I've learned has been self taught..I kinda do it backwards, lol. I can't keep up with all these guys. So for me, I'll have the experience and then read about it later. This is how I'm able to validate what some of these guys are saying. Their efforts give me the vocabulary and knowledge base to make sense of what I've been experiencing so now it's coming full circle.



BTW Don't think I'm anti-science but! most printed mainstream science is exactly that 'Mainstream'! I'm not a big fan of Mainstream anything at the moment! Same comparison could be the Health and medicine business, most people only see and rely on Mainstream version of reality!

The science I'm giving you isn't mainstream, cause if it was, would we even be having this conversation? It appears they like to call it 'new science', but to me it isn't 'new science' it's the way it's always been. For many, many years we were led to believe that we existed independently from the world we live in, now we know otherwise.


we-R-one I will be backtracking and try to develop my connection to the 'source field' I was once more connected but other negative events broke me.

Yes, this is what we all should be doing! This is what's real. Before one can access, one must learn the language it speaks, that's the challenge. I know it can be done as I've done it myself, so if I can do it anyone can as I have absolutely no training, lol...maybe that's the trick? No programming to interrupt the natural process......I have much to learn and look forward to...shall I say re-gaining my ability to read "the field" as I once played the role of an oracle in a past life, so surely...I must have had the skill set, unless I was a lousy oracle....hey what can I say, infinite possibilities, lmao.


Maybe you could add a little 'Best version links' to this essential subject!

I wish I could, but I haven't compiled a set yet. I highly recommend watching Gregg Braden's video The Divine Matrix if you haven't already; yep it's a doozy, 3:48:00, but well worth it. I hadn't seen this one until Donk brought it to the forefront, so thank you for that Donk. The key is changing the way you think...so instead of using your brain, focus on using your heart to make your decisions. I think us human try and make it too complicated so it deems the process even more difficult than it needs to be. I suspect this is due to all the programming we're having to weed through. If you'll notice when you watch the video, the ancient texts he sites give very simple instructions.
Gregg Braden-The Divine Matrix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRPfXHni1ok

[Violet]

Quite some reactions already, so forgive me if the question has already been asked but: can we escape the light? Even if knowing.

We can all know this information now and plan in our heads that when we die we're not to go towards any bright light, but when I look at earth,...How shall I say it? Apparently the light is very attractive...On earth experience has shown that is very difficult to not go to attractive "things"...You know?

[Synchronicity]

And we really don't know that going to any particular light makes any difference on where you end up anyway. Just saying...light isn't a bad thing...bright light isn't a bad thing. Shadows aren't bad things necessarily, either. Dark can be healing, too. It's not absolute.

I woke up this morning from a dream that I was told to remember. I was living in some house with a supposed husband and supposed child I didn't recognize, although if I didn't look with my intuition I would think they were my family. The house was kind of dark and gloomy, and I knew some energy there was negative. I saw it around my "husband" and after getting permission I worked on removing it. His eyes rolled back in his head to show only white and a growing sound came from him. But doing energy work has prepared me for this shows and I just asked, "Really? I don't think you are on tv. This isn't a scary movie and I'm not frightened. Now either ask for help or leave him. He is not yours", and I did remove that energy. It wasn't really big and scary, but was something that had attached to him and was gone soon. The house lightened up, the child was fine, the "husband" dissolved and I woke to my bedroom. The dream was about seeing through illusion, trusting my intuition and guides, and not accepting anything at face value without using that intuition. The message for me was that there is outside us that is for distraction and intimidation, and that lowers us to that vibration frequency. There is within and sometimes without that raises it and it is up to us to heal and be that positive ripple.

So yes, when I journey and end up between stars, sometimes I see a beautiful Earth and sometimes I see starlight. It isn't good or bad...it just is. That is what I see...things aren't good or bad. It's what we assign to them...one culture might assign evil to what another might see as a god or nirvana. Just my thought...I come back again to feeling it is about our own perspective. All I have...I guess I shouldn't say it again since I did already...lol :)

[greybeard]

I tend to go with what enlightened sages have said for thousands of years.
You will end up in the "heaven" that is concordant with your spiritual vibration.
Those that like drama and the bizarre will end up in that kind place.
Those who love joy, beauty, peace, harmony.kindness, sharing will end up in that kind of place--because that's how they act in this world.
Jesus said "In my Fathers house are many mansions"
The late Dr David Hawkins wrote quite a bit about attractor fields in Power vs Force and how you do attract into this life that which is of the same vibration as your self--- whatever you give out comes back to you.
Basically there is only love or fear and they both attract more of the same.
David Icke said--"There is only unconditional love the rest is illusion"---I agree with that.
Nothing complex---simple.
Love God. Love your fellow man---thats it.

Chris

[Wind]

Like attracts like.

[we-R-one]

Allow me to point to one consideration you might wish to make, we-R-one, regarding what John Wheeler (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68916-Don-t-go-into-the-light-Simon-Parkes&p=804713&viewfull=1#post804713) didn't address.

What you are referring to as a “Source Field” is called by the scientific community, "The Quantum Field of Infinite Potential". The double-slit experiment demonstrates how this Field, through observation, which prior to observation exists only as a field of energy, is collapsed into physical matter.

If then, this is a Field of Infinite Potential being individually collapsed into reality, why don't we all see something different when we perceive the same infinite field? Why do we all commonly collapse that energy into the manifestation of, say, an apple? Or, what makes us all see the same matter when we view this Infinite Field of Energy?

The only plausible explanation to this phenomenon is that there is some sort of control mechanism, outside of our perception, that is controlling the Quantum field of Infinite Potential.

So, for someone to use the double-slit experiment as an example of how we all create our own reality, one must further conclude that we are all preprogrammed in some way to collectively collapse this infinite field of energy into similar matter.

Regardless of how this works, it is a control mechanism.

The physical evidence points to anomalous structures on the surface of the Moon. Contrary to what some of the members are saying about these structures being photoshopped, I would suggest it is more likely that it is the quantum field of infinite potential being “photoshopped”- by highly advanced artificial mind manipulation technologies. That’s where the evidence points.

A mass realization of how this phenomenon works is the first step in releasing one's eternal soul from the trap.

This has nothing to do with fear, it has more to do with gaining a tactical advantage.

Yes, I understand your point. There are more studies, but I can't post everything here as it will take me off topic, that's why it was difficult to do the initial post to make my case. I'm sure there are studies that I'm not even aware of which cover your question.

In pondering what you ask, I would say this....the answer already lies within the photons that our world is made of. Because we live in a holographic universe, the answer is already determined, it doesn't need to be discovered, it's already there, which is why we all see the same thing. I think you want to refer to this study:

1. Switzerland, University of Geneva July 25, 1997, by Nicolas Gisin- Whatever they do to one particle, the other particle acts like it’s still connected even though it’s 14 miles apart. This is called entanglement. Once particles are physically separated, even though they’re not together physically the energy is still connected. Scientists tell us, if we could go back in time, to the beginning of time of our universe, everything was connected. The point being, the experiment showed that once a particle is physically connected and then physically separated the energy is still connected, which is why we are all still connected. Summary: Particles once joined physically, appear to remain linked energetically.

Source: Gregg Braden

I'm no scientist, but if I'm understanding the material correctly I think that would be the answer. I'm sure it can be explained 20 times better, but for quickness, that's my perception.


The only plausible explanation to this phenomenon is that there is some sort of control mechanism, outside of our perception, that is controlling the Quantum field of Infinite Potential.
But when you say this...doesn't it sound like we're victims? I dunno, just thinking out loud here. I don't feel like a victim anymore so though I see what you're saying, I don't look at the situation as being a victim, but that's also because I believe we live in a false reality, so what happens here on Earth, isn't really what's real. It's a playground for one to evolve and you can't evolve if duality doesn't exit on some level. I also have the luxury if you want to call it of remembering a particular past life and the more I explore I see intelligent design and if my soul was trapped, why has there been so much care put into this lifetime ensuring that it matches that lifetime and not just myself, but also those who were around me during that time period and are with me today? I just don't buy the argument that they have the level of control they want us to believe they do.

[Sunny-side-up]

It's one thing to take something but! it's what you do with it (or can do with it) that gives an end result!

One creature taking 'White Light' form a totally different creature and then using it for it's own distorted needs will not make them Good. It might give them food energies though!
My post was meant as a joke if you notice the smiley :) but anyway...
I think you might be confusing 'light' with energy or prana which is in fact the stuff which many parasitic 'astral' entities feed on...including emotional energy.

If you use the word light in the context of consciousness or enlightenment then you should not forget that no Being is without some form of consciousness...and consciousness is not energy.

If you use the word light as is used usually...then it also makes no sense, because all Beings on earth experience the light of the sun or a bulb etc...which in terms of darkness could also be related to awareness or consciousness..."I can see now that the light is on".

So I cannot for the life of me see how light in any form can be used to feed anyone...oh! wait I can...If there is light I can see what's in the cupboard, so I can safely choose the cornflakes over the rat poison :)

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Hope you still have a sense of humour


Late reply: Yes your right Finefeather , I didn't mean the trap taking the Light and then using it as an energy. Got absent minded there (:! (Good opening there for you to weave a joke around :)
Don't worry though Finefeather ill never lose my sense humour . I love to laugh at myself many times a day ;) but never make fun of others. Not meant to be a hostility towards you there Finefeather, just stating my uses of humour.

Anyways all this be tit for tat on word play, I still (Myself) have this query about the 'White Light' as a possible trap! I still see it as a set of 'Blinding head lights' with a mind suck 'spelt with a F' the other side of it!

Taking the indoctrinated, ingrained for some image of the 'Light' 'Light Tunnel' and turning it into a trap ( Or maybe always has been an implanted trap) to where we have our memories erased and so, denying our true potential energy each incarnation. Enslaving us and using us for food, our prana/energy, which ever name you give to it!

I recharge my self (Not often enough) with visualized White Light, which in effect is a kind of feeding! that what we humans can do.
When ever I think of my personal light, I actually think and see it as Golden, when I send light energy, it is my intent to send Pure refined Golden Light! maybe with touches of blue or green or red or Pink (A mix), depending on the need as I see/feel it at the time. Refined colors of light from the source white light you might say.
Now that's say you like sweet drinks, I could send you a lump of raw sugarcane to sweeten your drink but, I bet you would rather have some refined sugar!

I do not fear death but! but if I am out walking my dog late at night in the pitch black of night, and I notice a bright white beam of light shining into my eyes well!
I instantly think self-defense and wonder who/what is Hiding the other side of it!

One (3 times) of my experiences I saw a Golden/Orange distant sun/star like object, it seemed to be a universe distance away but, nothing hidden or blinding about it. That was very inviting, it was emitting great feelings of Love and calmness! It was LOVE and CALMNESS! and so powerful all at the same time.

Anyways a great post/s that I have learned much from, even seen many defenses of views and beliefs,
noted have been the constructive informative concerns of safety.

Love, Peace and many Hugs to you!
Alan

[Realeyes]

Earth is a School.

Before I took my driving test, I had lots and lots of practice lessons driving a car in all ways and weathers; read a highway manual - when I felt confident I took my test and passed.

I learned to drive the car through 'practice' not through reading a manual.

I applied the same principle regarding the white light reincarnation loop conundrum.... I learned how to induce my own out of body experiences giving me firsthand experiences of the 'other side' exploring the different levels by learning to shift up a gear in conscious frequencies. Each journey would broaden my horizons giving me a vital road map with more options and choices as well as revealing to me where I still had limited beliefs/attitudes to work upon here in 3D.

Speaking for myself, this 'practical homework' has been most valuable in so many ways. With out of body experiences the fear of death soon fades away....Time and Space becomes fluid...... and actually the wonderful begins filling our moments in this 'here' and our other 'heres'. ;)

I did write more to this post but scrubbed it, NancyV's post is eloquent and to the point, so re-posting it.



Light can be used as a method of attracting souls to a particular "place" where they can be delayed/trapped for a while and it can be a very valuable lesson. If one has not yet realized their powers of creation and absolute control they can be subject to others attempting to and often succeeding in controlling them. Eventually they will tire of being controlled, even if that control is by a "god" who seems to be benevolent and loving. So light has many aspects and can be used as an attractor tool in it's lower vibrational frequencies. The higher and highest frequencies of light also strongly attract us. Light is love and varying frequencies have greater or lesser intensities of love. We are attracted to love since that is what we are as Source.

There are many so called heavens where many souls remain and are trapped only by their own acceptance, acquiescence and beliefs. Some will eventually find their own powers of creation and will leave, others will be reborn, others will remain for an indeterminate time (time doesn't mean much at this point). Some will be aided by those who have chosen to help free souls who are trapped in either heavens or hells. All they have to do is to change their beliefs, tap into love and accept their power of creation. Then they can leave and the trap is no longer a trap but just a lesson along the way.

I don't look on this process as a negative or diabolical one, even if some who play these games are motivated by the desire for power and control over others. Others are actually helping more unevolved souls to evolve at a pace that suits them. As long as an individual soul accepts or is influenced by fear it will be able to be controlled. Love conquers fear and one who has merged into love completely cannot be controlled and has no fear. But if a soul is not quite ready to reach full power and merge with Source, these different planes and dimensions (including this earth reality we're aware of right now) all contain valuable lessons and exciting games, no matter if they seem to be hellish or heavenly.

We choose to be here and we choose to have an awareness of being apart from Source. I don't know the reason why we, as Source, choose to come into the Creation. But the Source and the Creation are in an endless loop with many dimensions to be experienced. At the same time the Source and the Creation are one and the same. It's hard for my mind to really comprehend this and I only have total knowingness when I am completely merged with Source....and then it doesn't matter at all. As Source I don't look for reasons I just AM...and it's all perfect. It is in the Creation where we play the games and vie for energy, power and control in various ways. So we are playing with other aspects of ourselves, the positive/loving and the negative/evil. We are not separate but only perceive ourselves as separate. It must be fun or we wouldn't continue doing it!

Excellent post NancyV! :wizard:

[we-R-one]

Hi We-R-one,
Thank you for your post, it's very interesting and enlightening in places.

I would like to say though that Simon does not mean to make us fearful with what he says and brings out into the light/open. Sometimes he's not as clear as he could be, or could elaborate more to enable people to get a bigger/better picture, but he certainly doesn't intend to mislead us. He says truths as he sees/understands them, then it is up to us as individuals to interpret that how we can. But he never intended to be a 'guru' and he certainly doesn't, as the 'Simon says' video demonstrates, 'say one thing and do another'. Simon lives his life as truthfully as he can. In his words to me...
'I am here to serve people ~ to combat evil and spread the awakening.'

This topic is vital, and for the most part people have been discussing it openly and from lots of different valuable viewpoints which have been enlightening to us all. We can all choose a pathway/idea that we find resonates the most with each of us, as individuals, at any one time.

What has crept in from time to time is a negative energy/attitude towards Simon - who incidentally has had not even seen this thread - and this is not helpful or necessary as his quote has been taken out of context and given a different energy/angle/edge to that which it was originally delivered. So there's a slight hint or an outright statement that he is out to manipulate us. I think anyone who has worked with him would know from their heart that this is not true.

Just think this needs saying.

Yes, I appreciate what you're saying. Many people will take this stance, but yet they continue to participate in fear based realities, this is part of the psyoping. Here's the trap that happens all the time....Let's take something that the masses believe to be good and flip its intention to change it's meaning. They do this all the time and we fall for it over and over again...all the time. So to me, this is no different. Lots of well meaning people push fear based agendas, it's part of the programming and yet none of them want to take any responsibility for it. Maybe for some, that's part of their test? Maybe their role is to teach another? Who's to say? Simon's actions are open for the individual to interpret. It's not my place to judge him. But I did feel a need to come on this thread and submit a viewpoint that hadn't been offered. The Simon says video was tongue and cheek humor. I posted it with the purpose getting people to think for themselves, not for the point of Simon saying one thing and then doing another, BUT, that being said, if you think about it, the portion of the video you're referring to is exactly the point I just made above. I think we can all say somewhere along in our incarnation we have played this game and played it well.

EDIT TO ADD: Couldn't you say the only reason fear exists is because we keep acknowledging it? And since we live in a holographic universe the more that we insist on that acknowledgment, the more it's mirrored within the universe. So what we're experiencing now, is that fear mirroring right back on us. So at some point somewhere, enough of us need to shut off the fear mechanism and start promoting a heart centered approach to handling our problems and we can't keep looking to others to do it..The very reason why our hearts are tied to the magnetics of this planet is so that there's a mechanism in place to help us heal and in the same way the problem is mirrored throughout the hologram, so is the solution.

[we-R-one]

[...]
.... The only reason I feel compelled to respond is because I see people being mislead and it bothers me to the very core. [...]
See, it is for that very reason that some of us put a caveat on that “White Light” thingy since some of us have been able to recall the experience of that “Soylent Green” recycler and back to the grind.

I would refer you to the Universal Law of creating your own reality. All possibilities exist because they lie within the hologram. So it's not that what you or others are experiencing isn't real, but based on what you believe determines what you will experience. We're not all going to experience the same thing, that's the beauty of it. Why? I would say it's because we're all at different stages in our growth. A hologram allows for individual choice! You see from reading what you wrote above, I would say you're still in victim mode.. you feel victimized which is why you refer to your experience as having been through the Soylent Green recycler. I would say there's something that hasn't happened yet within your soul growth to make you see otherwise. I'm not making fun of you either. If creating your own reality is a Universal Law, that puts the power in your hands to do as you wish and there's enough science to show this is real. If you truly believed this Universal Law you would no longer feel like a victim and you would embrace your experience as part of your growth. Just my opinion.

So it could be that you're just missing a part of the science that's not putting it all together for you? I'm referring to the study I posted earlier, I think on my response to Observer, post #165.


Also to neglect this kind of evidence:

One way to look at this is to consider that, let's say for the last 10,000 years, there hasn't been much more than one iota of improvement on Earth from any of these dudes that went into that white light... when back on the ground... How come?

See?

10,000 years of prayers, hopes, incense burning, sacrifices, immolations, etc... and have a good look at where we are at.... I don't know about anyone else but I find that such an end result is an indication that there is something terribly not quite right.

… and not taking into account 10,000 years of being led down the garden path is pure folly.

This, by the way, lends heavy credence to those catholic/christian preacher dudes who keep throwing at one’s face that one has only one life to make it out. Otherwise it’s back to the memory shredder and start over again.

Hey I know, why don't you try accessing the source field as your answer lies there! lmao :jester: kidding...well sort of....wish it was that easy. Yes I've heard this argument before. I have several answers for this... The time for change is now...we weren't ready back then. It's taken many lifetimes for souls to evolve. It doesn't happen overnight it's a process. I can see the changes in people now compared to what I see when I look back in history.

The preacher's message is fear based, can you see that? And because you embrace it as such, that's what you reap due to the hologram! If I remember correctly there are 45 very important text missing from the mainstream. Many of the answers lie within them; So much is hidden from the public, the information seems non-existent. They address reincarnation even in the bible, though if you talk to some Christians they'll tell you it's evil. Now does that sound like a message of love or does it sound like fear?

In regards to the 10,000 prayers my response would be- those orchestrating the prayers weren't speaking the language of the field which is why they went unanswered! They were asking with their mind not their heart, big difference. And the secret is not to ask, it's to feel as if it's already been done. We have been so programmed in addition to having the information pulled from our text, that we have lost where we come from, we have lost our heart center abilities. Now the science is matching what has been found in the ancient texts. Western civilization is so behind with this knowledge, that's why it seem so foreign to most. Some do experience miracles, but they're not miracles, it's that they talked to the field in a manner with which the field responded, hence the miracle is created. But it's not a miracle, it's the ability one has when they access the field with the emotion of their hearts! Dare I say, it's so easy, it's hard.


You use results from science to demonstrate your point and that’s well taken: I have no problems with that whatsoever.

However, physics has this pesky law of reciprocality and therefore the corollary of one truth is also true…

In other words, if anything works one way, it also works in reverse. Human technology is now at a stage where these white light, honey or vortex traps can be understood:

Take orbs (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?29822-Orbs) (particularly this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?29822-Orbs&p=302961&viewfull=1#post302961) as well as this one (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?29822-Orbs&p=595785&viewfull=1#post595785) <---- click) that are now being seen on digital snapshots.

Prior to digital cameras, they didn’t “exist” except for psychics/clairvoyants. Now, they are being revealed and “captured” on memory cards.

That they are being made visible via these digital cameras is something of extreme significance because it implies that these “spirits’ energies” floating around are interfering with the light wavelength used and, the corollary is that, that same light is interfering with them and, therefore, can be used to influence them via some waves/frequency/resonance of the electromagnetic spectrum.

Ok, I think I have the same response for this, and I think you're just missing a piece of the puzzle. When you say this, "In other words, if anything works one way, it also works in reverse."My answer is yes, because you live in a hologram. Anything is possible and has all ready happened, so everything you can think of already exists. Again, go to the photon study I mentioned on post #165 and it will make more sense to you.


Moreover, when an energy of “love” is directed at something, conversely, that 'something" can be made to “record” that energy/vibration/frequency/resonance/harmonic and be broadcasted back at the push of a button.

… right there you’ve got that “white light” trap as a carrier wave embedded with whatever matches the longing of the wandering spirit as a mirroring of the resonating frequency.

This is most probably also where the Buddhist’s quest for “detachment” comes from since any longing or desire gets to be a potential trap… “they’ll” give it to you: “you want to go home? No problem, this way, follow me!” ... and the Bardo Thodol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bardo_Thodol) was implemented to help avoid the many pitfalls one is bound to encounter on the other side of life.

I see what you're saying, but again I perceive this as a reflection of victimhood.


So, if what's above is actually, really truly understood, what do you think is the actual psyop?

Personally I tend to think it is the one that’s currently being promoted via mass MSM distribution now that the main “religions” are fast losing their grip on populations.

The pysop is fear. There are two emotions, love and fear. What do you see in your world now? Which emotion is dominating? FEAR....Geez you don't even have to get out of your chair, just look at all the threads on here. They're a reflection of all the energy we put out that's fear based. This creates the exact environment everyone says they want to get out of! Why? Because many won't look in the mirror and take responsibility for their actions. Many insist on promoting fear based concepts and ideologies. I see it every day, I've heard every excuse. So you wonder why it's taken 10,000 years, lmao.....It's how you treat people,..do you practice the golden rule? Do you believe in capital punishment? If you do, then you are promoting the eye for an eye concept which falls in the fear category. So you have a crime committed that creates a negative response and by choosing capital punishment you respond by killing the person which is a negative response, in doing so you promote the behavior of lower frequency. Every time you say, 'my gut tells me'.....you're promoting lower frequency. You want to say, "my heart says..." Get what I'm saying? Every choice has an effect as everything around you is energy, there's no getting around it so when deal with problems and how to handle them think about the energy that you'll create within that response. Being spiritual is about learning how to operate from the heart, not the gut.

I believe this time in history is different. I know I'm different and if I'm changing, others are changing too. I feel we have enough science to prove the point, and as more and more understand how they can make the changes it will happen, it already has, because it's within the hologram!


“Out there” on the other side of life, as you already know, one creates one’s reality a lot faster and the “enslavers” have quite a head’s up on “us” humans in creating “their” reality and manipulating that same energy field.

UUhh, there you go again...always the victim! I'm trying really hard to reach you... We as individuals are giving our power away on a daily basis, we make it easy for them because we keep choosing to acknowledge fear!That acknowledgment of fear goes back out into the universe and because we live in a hologram it reflects back at us creating a fear based society. As long as you keep thinking you're a victim you WILL feel like a prisoner trapped. Stop acknowledging and putting energy into fear based ideologies. Belief systems are energy fields, that vibrate at a frequency. Fear is a lower frequency. If constant belief systems based on fear are continually acknowledged and supported by the masses they are creating their own demise. Everyone is responsible for this, everyone! Emotions vibrate at a frequency that reverberates across the hologram and because you live in a hologram it mirrors the effect right back at you. If you think with your heart and not your mind and create higher vibrational frequencies in the hologram the same thing happens. The hologram is designed to work quickly and in the same way we can destroy our environment we can fix it. The studies show that emotions change the DNA in your body, the DNA changes the matter around you. the protons of this universe are designed to conform to your DNA. Everybody has to look at their behavior. Is your behavior one of supporting lower frequencies or higher frequencies? Do you promote fear or do you promote love?


Anything created on this Earth “below” has been weaponized one way or another especially in the field of mind control via electromagnetic frequencies/resonances/harmonics/waves; so, guess what one is going to run into in that “above” which this “below” is a mirror of? You're putting a one size fits all application to the situation. If you're the creator of your reality, Universal Law, and you believe all the above that is what YOU will experience, not necessarily what everyone else will. Remember there are unlimited possibilities and the answers have already been found. What about the people who don't know of weaponization? How can they experience something they don't know about? If they don't know about it, how can they believe? And if they don't believe, how does it exist, for them?

I know I probably sound like a broken record; I keep hoping if I say things differently it will click for someone. The lack of understanding could be from just missing a few pieces of the puzzle that I'm not relaying well enough for you or others to understand.

Forgive my typos, this is long.

[Kalamos]

[This is a long post, sharing my perspectives and suspicions based off very possibly incorrect representations of metaphysical ideas]

It has been suggested and reiterated by some that "no self-tutored seer or clairaudient ever saw or heard quite correctly." (http://blavatskyarchives.com/psychicversusinitiate.htm)

Where is the metaphysical in all of this? Are any of the Light Trap Idea proponents at all clairvoyants to a great degree? Is any of it founded on the metaphysical systems of knowledge from past and present, or is everything just controlled by Aliens? All of the esoteric science of the soul was channeled to us by Aliens all this time? Really?

Systems that direct man on how to control his lower nature, to transmute himself by the Will of the SELF to be a being above the lower worlds, above fear and suffering through understanding of Evolution?

Or is it just Aliens trapping us here and feeding off our emotions, and recycling souls?

Some writers suggest that the Astral body is made up of unconscious material 'beings' (sleeping monads) that are descending into dense physical matter, on their involutionary path to become incarnate mineral beings, and from there begin their evolutionary journey (that old saying that the spirit [monad] sleeps in the mineral, awakens in the vegetable, develops motion in the animal, and realizes its individual consciousness in the human kingdom.)

To reach lower densities these unconscious monads of our astral body are attracted to the most dense aspects of the Astral sub-planes, as they correspond to the lower densities of physical matter. The lowest sub-planes of the Astral World are made up of our lower emotions (elementals/thought-forms), whereas the higher aspects correspond to lighter and less dense physical material substances, and begin and correspond at the superetheric physical plane, which is present in our physical world, but mostly unseen (to those without etheric sight) and which may appear in the afterlife as Light, and correspond to Higher Emotions, as is noted by those who've seen this Light ...

The Light, from whatever dimension, Feels Good, and meditators and NDE'rs describe Love.

Some may move from dark planes of a lower of confused and fearful emotions, toward a Light where they feel Love--a higher vibration/dimension/plane.

But we are told this is a Trap by Aliens now?

So continuing on about the Astral-Emotional matter of that body...

When we die, the Lower part of that body, which most strongly wants to continue to stay near the lower planes while descending toward physical matter by Natural Involutionary Tendency, which is the purpose of our co-operation with it as Evolutionary beings, as we as a conscious/awake evolutionary monad need to grow out of lower matter, where the unconscious involutionary beings/monads of our Emotional body are growing into it.

But why? It's for experience, for all monads involved to learn and gain experiences in all the dimensions, to come to know them and understand their workings, and so reach a goal of conscious creation in those dimensions according to Cosmic Processes. We carelessly do this now, as we are still learning about, experiencing, and evolving out of the lower Worlds of Man.

Anyway, so when we die a physical death, and we move, with our astral body away from dense physical matter, the natural tendency is for our (Man's) monadic SELF to separate from the monads of the Emotional-Astral Involutionary matter, starting from the lowest first, and progressing upwards. Where while alive we (monads) are co-creating experiences, each riding one another for experience that is mutually beneficial.

When we die, the Lower Emotional Body coalesces and forms an elemental sheath around our higher principles/bodies, which it does unconsciously, but by Natural Instinct, so to try and keep itself closer to the physical world--it's goal (the collective goal of those lower monads) for them is to incarnate into mineral bodies, the dusts).

This elemental sheath is called the Desire-Elemental.

The Lower Emotional Body in a coalesced sheath, called the Desire-Elemental, tries to dominate the situation for a time, and it succeeds for the most part, which is why many experience the lower planes first, and objectively, as well as remain near the physical world, it's closest correlating plane, in and near the most dense parts--physical, liquid, solid, and gas--what we see with our eyes.

By Natural process, and 'time' dependent on the Emotional nature/development of the dying personality (dependent also on an conscious and informed Will of the Self), this Desire Elemental eventually breaks up and dissipates as we (the monadic SELF of Man) ascend by Natural Tendency to our resting place in Higher Planes; the Elemental dissipates allowing us to gradually ascend into higher sub-planes of the Emotional World, those which correspond to the higher emotions, which correspond to higher forms of matter in the physical world-- the superetheric and higher (invisbile to physical eyes) which could seen as Light/Energy planes. There are correspondences likely to the higher Mental Worlds as well (but that comes later in our after death journey).

If I got any of that right, then I would suggest that avoiding a Loving Light, which feels good and is drawing you from the Darker lower densities of Earth and Astral matter; avoiding the Light could serve to prolonging your stay and life while your are dominated for a short time by the Desire Elemental.

This Desire-Elemental, that seeks to experience lower worlds, is built of material used by the spooks of Spiritists and Mediums, as well as the Elemental itself might become employed now by Dark Beings in the Lower Emotional Worlds, to 'act' like ghosts and Aliens (and other elaborate thought-forms), and so channel these ideas about alien domination (which no matter how much fluff is being mixed into it) cause confusion and fear to anyone who is unsure (and anyone not above a false surety) of their sovereignty as SELF.

Does it seem fitting that the Bad Guys suggest we stay, and prolong our life in the Astral by Avoiding the Light as it happens Naturally? ... which a longer stay in those lower planes puts the enveloped Soul inside the Desire Elemental at risk of being recruited into the Forces of Darkness for a time?

It is an intelligent trap indeed.

LIGHT=LOVE is no more? We have to be suspicious of aliens on Earth, and now after death?

I suggest one should go to the Light, to discard your Lower Bodies which do have a consciousness affect on us while incarnate and dis-incarnate, by way of being the vehicles of our Emotional expressions. But there are higher emotions in the Causal planes, True Joy, Peace, Love and Understanding, and that's where we go to rest after assimilating our experiences in the Higher Emotional, then Mental Worlds.

Or, you could dodge the Light and start walking around with the hungry ghosts, asking to go to Source. Soon enough, one of our rescue friends, those silent helpers here and there, will fetch you and bring you back to the Light.

If the Light Trap Idea is a False Idea perpetuated for whatever reason on the sensitives and truth seekers of the Alt community, then it would work to provide THEM bad guys with more servants and material forms to employ as aliens and ghouls in the fearful darkness of the night, while propagating this escapist mentality.
----------------

further notes to this speculative post:

-The Idea coming into our minds about Aliens feeding and recycling our souls might be a polluted reflection of something more like this:

-that beings and nature spirits in higher and parallel dimensions do feed off or use our thoughts and feelings. The negative ones feed on fear based emotions, while positive beings feed up higher emotions. It's not just hungry Aliens. What happened to all the ghosts?

-the idea the beings have complexes on the moon that recycle our souls and wipe our memories might be a polluted reflection that, perhaps beings do do this, but it is their job to do this. They recycle the material of thought and emotion, which are energies that are intelligently linked to our Soul. These are beings who work in the planetary processes of Cosmic Law who's work it is to get our material and energies/tendencies/skandhas linked back to our soul for the reincarnation process.

There may be beings, great and small, in other worlds, in the order of magnitudes greater that the number of human souls. These are MYSTERIES, but we might be receiving Mental Ideas about these beings and processes now a days, for whatever reason, but likely do to the procession into a New Age, which will bring with it revelations of Knowledge about these worlds and their inhabitants.

My personal opinion is that we are linking Ideas, Beings, and Processes that we are just re-discovering, but are receiving them incompletely through the multitudinous number of people coming through with these ideas from the mental plane.

The Ideas and Knowledge may our earned right, but the Dark Forces may be purposefully twisting the ideas to cause us to fear the higher beings that may just be here to assist us, and are doing a job that we don't understand yet.

Disclosure might be nothing of what we think it is, but a new paradigm coming soon that will explain all of these processes that we are here and there all still guessing at; new science will be revealed that explains many of these fussy and fantastic ideas as Spiritual, Mental, Emotion --- psychological disorders of consciousness.

Lastly, I admit that I could have all of this backward, and I may be wrong about the Light. I do strive to keep an open, yet critical mind.

If and when we all find that the paradigms we've been emotionally and mentally investing in, and even the persons and teachers we've trusted, have either been wrong by human error of interpretation, or wrong because we've been deceived by others who've been deceived, then we'll all have painful adjustments.

I preface almost everything I write as hypothesis, because I know that I don't KNOW.

[Sunny-side-up]

we-R-one
I didn't see anyone post any science as part of their reasoning behind their belief. Beliefs are energy fields. The way our reality is set up, is something only exists if we seek it out.

Remember this quote:
”The act of us searching, the act of the human heart and the human mind looking at the universe expecting to see something will always create something for us to see. The act of us looking with the expectation that something is there, is an act of creation unto itself.” - John Wheeler, American theoretical physicist

That is what the science is telling us.


Most of this debate is concerned with personal spiritual and out of the norm experiences and observations, not science?

Yes, I understand, but science is catching up, which is why I posted the information. I'm surprised no one else did, as I know there are many others familiar with the studies. For me, having this understanding kinda kills the debate in many arguments wouldn't you say?



How dose, to mention one name 'Nassim Haramein's' new views of reality, black-holes, particles and the universe resonate with you?
Honestly, I'm familiar with the name but not his work. Most of what I've learned has been self taught..I kinda do it backwards, lol. I can't keep up with all these guys. So for me, I'll have the experience and then read about it later. This is how I'm able to validate what some of these guys are saying. Their efforts give me the vocabulary and knowledge base to make sense of what I've been experiencing so now it's coming full circle.



BTW Don't think I'm anti-science but! most printed mainstream science is exactly that 'Mainstream'! I'm not a big fan of Mainstream anything at the moment! Same comparison could be the Health and medicine business, most people only see and rely on Mainstream version of reality!

The science I'm giving you isn't mainstream, cause if it was, would we even be having this conversation? It appears they like to call it 'new science', but to me it isn't 'new science' it's the way it's always been. For many, many years we were led to believe that we existed independently from the world we live in, now we know otherwise.


we-R-one I will be backtracking and try to develop my connection to the 'source field' I was once more connected but other negative events broke me.

Yes, this is what we all should be doing! This is what's real. Before one can access, one must learn the language it speaks, that's the challenge. I know it can be done as I've done it myself, so if I can do it anyone can as I have absolutely no training, lol...maybe that's the trick? No programming to interrupt the natural process......I have much to learn and look forward to...shall I say re-gaining my ability to read "the field" as I once played the role of an oracle in a past life, so surely...I must have had the skill set, unless I was a lousy oracle....hey what can I say, infinite possibilities, lmao.


Maybe you could add a little 'Best version links' to this essential subject!

I wish I could, but I haven't compiled a set yet. I highly recommend watching Gregg Braden's video The Divine Matrix if you haven't already; yep it's a doozy, 3:48:00, but well worth it. I hadn't seen this one until Donk brought it to the forefront, so thank you for that Donk. The key is changing the way you think...so instead of using your brain, focus on using your heart to make your decisions. I think us human try and make it too complicated so it deems the process even more difficult than it needs to be. I suspect this is due to all the programming we're having to weed through. If you'll notice when you watch the video, the ancient texts he sites give very simple instructions.
Gregg Braden-The Divine Matrix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRPfXHni1ok

Hi again :) we-R-one I think science has actually caught up, as I mentioned before take a look at this guys work, it's beautiful!


we-R-one: Honestly, I'm familiar with the name but not his work. Most of what I've learned has been self taught..I kinda do it backwards, lol. I can't keep up with all these guys. So for me, I'll have the experience and then read about it later. This is how I'm able to validate what some of these guys are saying. Their efforts give me the vocabulary and knowledge base to make sense of what I've been experiencing so now it's coming full circle. My life has been the same way around, I think of something, be it a meditation or idea then go out and there in my local second hand book shop would be the conformation! I kinda done it backwards as well:) which is how I personaly came to the 'Light Trap' query, by experience first.

Have a good look at the whole of this vid, we all truly are one!

http://deusnexus.wordpress.com/2014/01/28/the-black-whole-full-movie-by-nassim-haramein/


Black Whole uncovers scientific proof that we are one. The work of physicist, Nassim Haramein, provides insight into the structure of space-time and a new coherent model of the universe. Using the sacred geometry and codes in ancient monuments and documents, the film presents a new look at the reality of which we live. As early as 9 years old, Nassim was already developing the basis for a unified hyperdimensional theory of matter and energy, which he eventually called the “Holofractographic Universe.”

Nassim has spent most of his life researching the fundamental geometry of hyperspace, studying a variety of fields from theoretical physics, cosmology, quantum mechanics, biology and chemistry to anthropology and ancient civilizations. Combining this knowledge with a keen observation of the behavior of nature, he discovered a specific geometric array that he found to be fundamental to creation, and the foundation for his Unified Field Theory emerged.

This unification theory, known as the Haramein-Rauscher metric (a new solution to Einstein’s Field Equations that incorporates torque and Coriolis effects) and his most recent paper The Schwarzschild Proton, lays down the foundation of what could be a fundamental change in our current understandings of physics and consciousness. This groundbreaking theory has now been delivered to the scientific community through peer-reviewed papers and presentations at international physics conferences. Further, The Schwarzschild Proton paper has recently received the prestigious “Best Paper Award” in the field of physics, quantum mechanics, relativity, field theory, and gravitation at the University of Liège, Belgium during the 9th International Conference CASYS’09.

Love, Peace and Hugs, and I truly mean that!
Alan

[we-R-one]

How dose, to mention one name 'Nassim Haramein's' new views of reality, black-holes, particles and the universe resonate with you?

Have a good look at the whole of this vid, we all truly are one!

http://deusnexus.wordpress.com/2014/01/28/the-black-whole-full-movie-by-nassim-haramein/


Black Whole uncovers scientific proof that we are one. The work of physicist, Nassim Haramein, provides insight into the structure of space-time and a new coherent model of the universe. Using the sacred geometry and codes in ancient monuments and documents, the film presents a new look at the reality of which we live. As early as 9 years old, Nassim was already developing the basis for a unified hyperdimensional theory of matter and energy, which he eventually called the “Holofractographic Universe.”

Nassim has spent most of his life researching the fundamental geometry of hyperspace, studying a variety of fields from theoretical physics, cosmology, quantum mechanics, biology and chemistry to anthropology and ancient civilizations. Combining this knowledge with a keen observation of the behavior of nature, he discovered a specific geometric array that he found to be fundamental to creation, and the foundation for his Unified Field Theory emerged.

This unification theory, known as the Haramein-Rauscher metric (a new solution to Einstein’s Field Equations that incorporates torque and Coriolis effects) and his most recent paper The Schwarzschild Proton, lays down the foundation of what could be a fundamental change in our current understandings of physics and consciousness. This groundbreaking theory has now been delivered to the scientific community through peer-reviewed papers and presentations at international physics conferences. Further, The Schwarzschild Proton paper has recently received the prestigious “Best Paper Award” in the field of physics, quantum mechanics, relativity, field theory, and gravitation at the University of Liège, Belgium during the 9th International Conference CASYS’09.

Love, Peace and Hugs, and I truly mean that!
Alan

Thanks Alan I'll take a look. I think my head is kinda hurting though after reading all this lol, anyone else? It reminds me of when I attempted to read one of Gregg Braden's books, at the beginning of my awakening...crap, so over my head the way he wrote, but if you watch his videos, you can understand what he's saying. I need to go back and re-read to see if I can 'get it' now. I'm wondering if this guy will be the same....at least now I have a basic understanding so that'll help. ;)

[Synchronicity]

You know, twisting ourselves into pretzels trying to understand what is THE right way to think just gives us headaches and doesn't get us any closer to knowing THE truth (whatever that may be...maybe there isn't just one truth. Maybe there are different paths to get to the same place), and it's really depressing after awhile. Go to light..wait, nope, shouldn't do that. Wait...go to dark..nope, she said not to. Wait...let me hear what someone else predicts or decided...wait! What if my mind is compromised and I'm an alien or I have an implant and must not believe what I think!

Why do that to ourselves is my question? Why run in circles trying to do what one guru or another tells us when we really are able to ask for ourselves? It's like the Catholic Church (not dissing them, but just using an example that I know because I used to be Catholic) does by telling people to go confess to priests instead of directly to God (since that is their frame of reference), or that the Pope is infallible under certain conditions. That can't be true about the Pope unless God has changed his mind a lot because different Popes contradict each other and some priests do awful things and definitely don't represent God or Jesus, and then why confess to another human instead of talking straight to God or Jesus? So instead of encouraging people to have that direct communication and to look inside and find some peace and joy, to treat others well and not hurt them, etc., instead of wars and all the lovely things we have now, they are told that they don't have answers and that priests and Popes do. Again, just using that as an example and there are many others.

So I sincerely ask why do that to ourselves? If we are all compromised anyway and all humans are...whatever they may be in some lower energy...or this is all faked to keep us imprisoned or the masses are drugged and there is no hope...why bother to pretend to sort through anything if we are that flawed? Why bother to do anything at all? It really is all opinions..including mine...and even experts on topics can be and often are wrong. I think perhaps the problem I am having on many threads here is that I used to be a science teacher...used to work in healthcare in various fields...used to be Catholic...used to be many things. All that dogma and all those iron-clad protocols are handy and keep people in rows, give standards where sometimes some are needed, but you know, religion is all in the perception and experience, science is only as good as the tests, theories, and humans who can interpret it, which means that egos influence those interpretations sometimes and conclusions (and experiments and the very ideas and questions asked in the first place) and therefore science isn't perfect either.

So why wait for lights and death and someone to tell us what to do? Why not leave out all the pretzel-twisting brainaches, (not saying don't learn and read, but don't take it all for gospel if it is fear-based or doesn't feel right to us) ask directly to whatever source you do trust or your own higher self, and live a good, peaceful, life that is as positive and helpful as possible? I guess I value science but have seen so many things, experienced so many things, and seen so many supposedly "scientifically impossible" things, felt them, seen people heal with them when that supposedly isn't possible, and worked with such amazing energies that I listen to many views, but come back to what feels right for me personally. It isn't about not hearing or learning, not being prepared, but just not pretzeling my brain to shapes that don't fit. I feel so much fear from some threads, so I guess I need to just not get into those. I know better...things really are simpler than we tend to make them. Thanks for reading if you got this far and I have learned much. :)

[we-R-one]

I haven't added much to the discussion but have been reading everyone's input. As this was started on Simon's comments regarding the white light being a trap I wanted to add the other comments Simon made regarding this. (But below I will add a comment.)

Here they are, taken directly from Simon's tread.

Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
Hi Simon,

I am happy to see you return.

Please tell us more about the choices and events we experience immediately following death of the physical body. Some friends and I have discussed the possibilities with much interest.

1. Assuming the white light can be a trap, is the light always a trap or is it sometimes not?
2. If one does not choose to go to the light immediately, and one simply waits to make a decision, will the light trap pursue and capture?
3. Are any problems created by waiting to make a decision?
4. Is there an effective defense if the light trap pursues?
5. If departed loved ones or other potential helpers appear, is there a way to determine if they are genuinely helpful, or if they are only images being used to bait the trap?
6. Is the best way to make a decision regarding the white light, to be informed of the possibilities and wait for the agreement of the rational and intuitive minds before making a decision?

Thanks, Ron

Here is Simon's answers:

Hey Ron,
I am happy to be back, it was only ever going to be a short break, although the enemy presses hard.
1. often a light being is seen by a person in a near death experience, this can account for it - also another force intervenes to prevent the persons soul from departing the body at that time - to the person they see the light and then return to their body, they miss-identify the light as a good thing.
2. the light remains in place - it can not come to you - its free will, if you go to the light then you are caught. if you wait in in-decision then you will most probley go to the light.
3. yes, if your waiting to make a decision, its probley because you have forgotten my warnings !
4. it wont follow you.
5. Good question - yes, if they escort you toward the light - they are a fake.
6. Nope - decide now that you will not go to the trap - this is the best chance you have of remembering when the time is upon you.
all the best
simon

************************************************** **********
Here is another question and answer:

Quote Posted by Freed Fox (here)


3. Is there a specific 'destination' to look for as an alternative to 'the light'? (I don't recall seeing this answered previously, forgive me if it has).

Thank you for your time.

Here is Simon's answer:

3. move away from the light........ keep saying to your true self " I wish to return to source" " I want to go home" repeat this over and over head away from the false white light.
Simon



This message is for everyone not just seeker/reader. I've had time to absorb this post, and I see some problems with what Simon is saying. First off, I didn't realize how hard it was going to be to die, but I guess if you live in fear, the emotion must continue on in death just to make sure the experience comes full circle. Excuse me for laughing just a little, I mean no dis-respect, but it's hard not to crack a smile about this when you're no longer in victimhood. I do want to mention it took me many lifetimes including 20 years in this one riddled with abuse, to finally get out of the mindset, so I think I've earned the right for a little sense of humor.

Again, Simon is not wrong, he can't be wrong, ..why? Because the universe is set up as a hologram and all possibilities are available. So in the same token he isn't wrong, he isn't right either. You with me so far?

Here's what stands out.... the second you ask him what you should do, aren't you giving your power away? If it's a know fact, scientifically proven that 'you are the creator of your reality' why would you give that power to someone else to decide? Ahhhh could this be how 'they' get your permission? just sayin...Now that the science is available, you have something tangible to look at if that's what you need to understand this Universal Law.

This next question is what really caught my attention. I'm going to make this real easy, let's look at Simon's response below to this question from Freed Fox:

Is there a specific 'destination' to look for as an alternative to 'the light'? (I don't recall seeing this answered previously, forgive me if it has).

Thank you for your time.

Response:
3. move away from the light........ keep saying to your true self " I wish to return to source" " I want to go home" repeat this over and over head away from the false white light.
Simon


This is absolutely FALSE, unless you live in a fear based reality of course. Why do I know this? Because I know for a fact that you are the creators of your reality, you've seen the science and the response above IS NOT, the language the "field"(source field) speaks and if you don't speak the proper language, the "field" won't respond to your request. The fact that he doesn't know this can be observed in the response. So this says to me the advice above is being given by someone to fool you and is none other than a PSYOP because it promotes fear to the viewer who doesn't 'heed' the warning and do as they say!

Again see the definition below...... I use the term PSYOP loosely not implying it has to be a government operation, but merely for the premise that the definition eludes to the fact that an attempt to elicit a specific emotion is being instigated in order to to elicit a certain type of response, that being one of fear, there-by inducing the desired behavior 'favorable to the originator's objectives.'

Definition of Psyop:
http://www.military.com/ContentFiles...ate_PSYOPS.htm

PSYOPS or Psychological Operations: Planned operations to convey selected information and indicators to foreign audiences to influence their emotions, motives, objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of foreign governments, organizations, groups, and individuals. The purpose of psychological operations is to induce or reinforce foreign attitudes and behavior favorable to the originator's objectives. Also called PSYOP. See also consolidation psychological operations; overt peacetime psychological operations programs; perception management. (Source: U.S. Department of Defense)

I personally know this language of the 'field'. I shared with you my kundalini experience on "The Solutions" thread a little over a year ago, post #2. Go back and read what I said....note the experience happened around 1990, BEFORE, the science was out there! If you look at how I describe the experience, I tell you the process happened from the heart not the mind. I have absolutely no training in meditation so there was no outside influence. This is how I know the experience was authentic(no programming). This is how I know what Simon Parkes is saying will not give you the results you seek. He can appear to be sincere as can be, but this is not how you speak the language of the 'field'. This is not the language and simple direction given in the ancient texts.

See this post in the Courtney Brown thread?
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?67668-Courtney-Brown-Announcement-for-February-2014&p=804809&viewfull=1#post804809

Same thing I been touting in "The Solutions" thread on the Spirituality forum and on here as have others. The theme is: you are the creators of your reality and you have an effect on the energy fields that surround you. Learn to utilize your heart and you will control the fields to project an environment of peace and love and walking as one, not fear. Speak the language of the field with the notion of what you desire 'has already happened' from within your heart not your mind. The reality of peace is already in the hologram waiting for us to grab it! Which is why I say, "The Second Coming" is you! It's you! Your energy and it's correspondence to the 'field' is what it's all about! This is a Renaissance period in the making that belongs to the collective, not one of singularity like time periods of long ago.


Watch The Divine Matrix video, the science and language of the field is there and it's presented in a way that all will understand. :pop2:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRPfXHni1ok



:sarcastic:***this message has been we-R-one tested....and scientifically approved*****:sarcastic:

Disclaimer: I'm telling you the truth, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade and I'm sorry if this is too much for some to handle. I have nothing against Simon and if you want to avoid the light, that's up to you to decide.

[Flash]

I haven't added much to the discussion but have been reading everyone's input. As this was started on Simon's comments regarding the white light being a trap I wanted to add the other comments Simon made regarding this. (But below I will add a comment.)

Here they are, taken directly from Simon's tread.

Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
Hi Simon,

I am happy to see you return.

Please tell us more about the choices and events we experience immediately following death of the physical body. Some friends and I have discussed the possibilities with much interest.

1. Assuming the white light can be a trap, is the light always a trap or is it sometimes not?
2. If one does not choose to go to the light immediately, and one simply waits to make a decision, will the light trap pursue and capture?
3. Are any problems created by waiting to make a decision?
4. Is there an effective defense if the light trap pursues?
5. If departed loved ones or other potential helpers appear, is there a way to determine if they are genuinely helpful, or if they are only images being used to bait the trap?
6. Is the best way to make a decision regarding the white light, to be informed of the possibilities and wait for the agreement of the rational and intuitive minds before making a decision?

Thanks, Ron

Here is Simon's answers:

Hey Ron,
I am happy to be back, it was only ever going to be a short break, although the enemy presses hard.
1. often a light being is seen by a person in a near death experience, this can account for it - also another force intervenes to prevent the persons soul from departing the body at that time - to the person they see the light and then return to their body, they miss-identify the light as a good thing.
2. the light remains in place - it can not come to you - its free will, if you go to the light then you are caught. if you wait in in-decision then you will most probley go to the light.
3. yes, if your waiting to make a decision, its probley because you have forgotten my warnings !
4. it wont follow you.
5. Good question - yes, if they escort you toward the light - they are a fake.
6. Nope - decide now that you will not go to the trap - this is the best chance you have of remembering when the time is upon you.
all the best
simon

************************************************** **********
Here is another question and answer:

Quote Posted by Freed Fox (here)


3. Is there a specific 'destination' to look for as an alternative to 'the light'? (I don't recall seeing this answered previously, forgive me if it has).

Thank you for your time.

Here is Simon's answer:

3. move away from the light........ keep saying to your true self " I wish to return to source" " I want to go home" repeat this over and over head away from the false white light.
Simon



This message is for everyone not just seeker/reader. I've had time to absorb this post, and I see some problems with what Simon is saying. First off, I didn't realize how hard it was going to be to die, but I guess if you live in fear, the emotion must continue on in death just to make sure the experience comes full circle. Excuse me for laughing just a little, I mean no dis-respect, but it's hard not to crack a smile about this when you're no longer in victimhood. I do want to mention it took me many lifetimes including 20 years in this one riddled with abuse, to finally get out of the mindset, so I think I've earned the right for a little sense of humor.

I do not see the victims here, i only see someone who has explained what he thinks he knows and how he would get out of it. He does not know more, so he does not say more. The most suprising is that the Tibetan bardo book mentions the same, do not look at the white light. However, the difference is that they say look at the clear light. Clear enough??? lol.

I personnally think/feel that the clear light means discernment, in chosing the path to follow, even once dead.

Stating something we perceive as fact is not the same thing as provoking fear nor making victims. Here the victim is in the interpretation the receiver gives to the information

Again, Simon is not wrong, he can't be wrong, ..why? Because the universe is set up as a hologram and all possibilities are available. So in the same token he isn't wrong, he isn't right either. You with me so far?

Well, i am not entirely sure you are right here, but this is another debate

Here's what stands out.... the second you ask him what you should do, aren't you giving your power away? If it's a know fact, scientifically proven that 'you are the creator of your reality' why would you give that power to someone else to decide? Ahhhh could this be how 'they' get your permission? just sayin...Now that the science is available, you have something tangible to look at if that's what you need to understand this Universal Law.

There is again here a huge difference between asking others what to do for oneself, without using one's discernment and asking for plain information. If i am confused while driving, I will stop and ask my direction since I am a woman :p, or look at my GPS. Same for dying, that it be Simon or the Bardo book, i may ask for information - no fear component here, unless i have fear of dying, which has nothing to do with the information imparted

This next question is what really caught my attention. I'm going to make this real easy, let's look at Simon's response below to this question from Freed Fox:

Is there a specific 'destination' to look for as an alternative to 'the light'? (I don't recall seeing this answered previously, forgive me if it has).

Thank you for your time.

Response:
3. move away from the light........ keep saying to your true self " I wish to return to source" " I want to go home" repeat this over and over head away from the false white light.
Simon

Well, when i teach or give seminars, i do tell people what I read or learned. How else do you communicate? If there is instruction books, I describe them. This is not an order, only what he knows , a suggestion. I have seen so much worst in the alternative and new age media

This is absolutely FALSE, unless you live in a fear based reality of course. Why do I know this? Because I know for a fact that you are the creators of your reality, you've seen the science and the response above IS NOT, the language the "field"(source field) speaks and if you don't speak the proper language, the "field" won't respond to your request. The fact that he doesn't know this can be observed in the response. So this says to me the advice above is being given by someone to fool you and is none other than a PSYOP because it promotes fear to the viewer who doesn't 'heed' the warning and do as they say!

Simon never said he has the language of the higher self or oversoul, which is in my views a better way of naming the field. He says what he knows, no that he is the oversoul all by himself. It is up to us to discern. And no, it does not promote fear in me. I have much more to fear here while alive here with psychopaths lol. Worst comes to worst, i just plainly reincarnate having lost my memory of previous lifes - as usual. It could pi ss me off, but it won't kill my eternal soul.

Again see the definition below...... I use the term PSYOP loosely not implying it has to be a government operation, but merely for the premise that the definition eludes to the fact that an attempt to elicit a specific emotion is being instigated in order to to elicit a certain type of response, that being one of fear, there-by inducing the desired behavior 'favorable to the originator's objectives.'

Truly, this light thing is one of the least fearful thing i have seen on this forum. If you want fear, go in other threads. Really.

Definition of Psyop:
http://www.military.com/ContentFiles...ate_PSYOPS.htm

PSYOPS or Psychological Operations: Planned operations to convey selected information and indicators to foreign audiences to influence their emotions, motives, objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of foreign governments, organizations, groups, and individuals. The purpose of psychological operations is to induce or reinforce foreign attitudes and behavior favorable to the originator's objectives. Also called PSYOP. See also consolidation psychological operations; overt peacetime psychological operations programs; perception management. (Source: U.S. Department of Defense)

I personally know this language of the 'field'. I shared with you my kundalini experience on "The Solutions" thread a little over a year ago, post #2.

Ok, here we go and you may not like me. Kundalini is only one of the first step towards evolution, one of the first sign something is working out. It does not mean that you know, it only means that you had a spiritual experience and unblocked most of your chakras, therefore can continue to evolve and have more psychic abilities. But it does not mean that you know. Beware

Go back and read what I said....note the experience happened around 1990, BEFORE, the science was out there! If you look at how I describe the experience, I tell you the process happened from the heart not the mind.

You are right, it starts and continue with the heart, not the mind. Now, does that means that 3/4 of the planet are doomed because their heart opens slowly??? the process start with the heart, continue with the whole being and goes through multiple stages for many lifes. The process is slow for most. So please, give a brake to most people, they will learn in time, including Simon. You are passionnate about what you discovered. This is great. Do not forget to be empathetic too for those who are elsewhere

I have absolutely no training in meditation so there was no outside influence.

You confuse me here, why training in meditation would lead to outside influence. I thought that meditation leads to the exact reverse, keeping from outside influence

This is how I know the experience was authentic(no programming). This is how I know what Simon Parkes is saying will not give you the results you seek. He can appear to be sincere as can be, but this is not how you speak the language of the 'field'. This is not the language and simple direction given in the ancient texts.

Who told you he tried to speak the language of the field.

See this post in the Courtney Brown thread?
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?67668-Courtney-Brown-Announcement-for-February-2014&p=804809&viewfull=1#post804809

Same thing I been touting in "The Solutions" thread on the Spirituality forum and on here as have others. The theme is: you are the creators of your reality and you have an effect on the energy fields that surround you. Learn to utilize your heart and you will control the fields to project an environment of peace and love and walking as one, not fear. Speak the language of the field with the notion of what you desire 'has already happened' from within your heart not your mind. The reality of peace is already in the hologram waiting for us to grab it! Which is why I say, "The Second Coming" is you! It's you! Your energy and it's correspondence to the 'field' is what it's all about! This is a Renaissance period in the making that belongs to the collective, not one of singularity like time periods of long ago.

I agree with this. Except for the hologram. i agree with the heart. The second coming being us. This is why I do will love, to spread love and work on my own heart. This even includes loving my dark side, in which the replians have a correspondance. Contacting your soul means walking on a fine thread, where everything is loved because there is no more polarities. What i see here in this thread are polarties. Which could be erased with unconditional love. And this does not mean to accept being trampled or eaten. This means using love and wisdom with an absolute firmess. So that the darkness i you get soaked in love as well. Then peace will happen and we will have a paradise


Watch The Divine Matrix video, the science and language of the field is there and it's presented in a way that all will understand. :pop2:

He is not THE TRUTH either. He is presenting in a concise manner what others have discovered and in a few years it will change. He does good work but not he top spiritual development. Yet, he brings good studies and makes an interesting apport


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRPfXHni1ok



:sarcastic:***this message has been we-R-one tested....and scientifically approved*****:sarcastic:

Disclaimer: I'm telling you the truth, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade and I'm sorry if this is too much for some to handle. I have nothing against Simon and if you want to avoid the light, that's up to you to decide.

It is not too much to handle, it is forum discussions.

Now, i have to do my ten words to be able to post.

[mahalall]

true! an enlightened person will tell you to be wary of the light,
the mind'body phenomena in a subtle form will contribute to the stage of light to arise.
the feeling presence of pure non-reactional bliss/peace can overwhelm.
in this stage the minds depth shakes and that old habitual tendency can quiet easily surface-"oh i like this"attachment!
and subsequently every pursuit thereafter becomes one of craving the light-heroin addiction is it's dark relative.
so i agree with simon parkes but would add caution to developing an aversion to light because this too can contribute to knots of difficulties.
if it arises it arises-remembering its fluxing nature of change

and what of beyond light? all futures and pasts



if you find yourself walking in the light remind your self that this state is also in a state of flux-and smile at how the circle repeats itself when you become attached.

[carryattune]

As quoted by Heyokah: sir dipswitch said:


"I'd like to add one more thing. About ten years ago I was taken from my body and I had an experience with the creator source. I saw the whole shape of the realities and dimensions, they looked like dna spirals that made up this weird X that rotated around its middle axis. It had this spin to it. I was sucked into a very tiny section of this. When I broke through to its dimension, the membrane was orange from the outside and only blinding white light after I broke through. I heard a voice telling me that I was not alone and that it loved me. I asked who it was and it said it was "God". I couldn't see anything only hear it and knew its presence was there. An amazing presence, that was undeniable. The light was so blinding and warm. I told it i did not believe in God and it told me it could "touch me", it could prove it. Without time to process what it said something went through my soul that just knew this was the creator. The most pure love I have ever felt. It honestly hurt to feel it, I felt it only for a second and it was gone. If I felt it for any longer it would have destroyed me, it was so powerful. I have been in love with girls, I love my parents, my family. But I realized at that moment I have never felt true love before. It changed my life forever and was the kick start I needed for my remembering. I came back to my body crying for an hour repeating "I'm sorry I didn't believe you". The reason I share this is because I broke through an orange membrane and came into the blinding light. I did not follow and go into the light. Those are two different things all together! That is important to realize."


Heyokah,

A marvelous quote. Thankyou sir dipswitch.. You, said it so well. Your experience is very beautiful. I am glad Heyokah shared what you shared. If not for Heyokah bringing it here, I may have missed it. Thankyou Heyokah, you saw the value. .

[Hervé]

Seems to me the signal got lost in the noise...

It's very simple, when Simon and others "talk" of the white light construed to be experienced with NDEs, we are talking about a similar BEAM that's used for abductions. Point final/Full stop.

With that, sovereign people will question and repel it tooth and nail whereas unaware ones will most probably be manipulated into: "Oh! Look! What a pretty butterfly!"

[carryattune]

I remembered this offering from Disney. It seems fitting.

TTUQyEr-sg0

[Sunny-side-up]

Nice and yes Amzer Zo

Seems to me the signal got lost in the noise...

It's very simple, when Simon and others "talk" of the white light construed to be experienced with NDEs, we are talking about a similar BEAM that's used for abductions. Point final/Full stop.
With that, sovereign people will question and repel it tooth and nail whereas unaware ones will most probably be manipulated into: "Oh! Look! What a pretty butterfly!"

I think my last words within this possible 'Light Trap' post are these:
I've got from it what I originally needed:

1) Input on my queries! sorted as sorted it can be for now :)

2) The post has shown what an interest the possible Light-Trap generates!

3) It has been a good observation of Members positions and knowledge's of such a high end Life-path/spiritual phenomenon.

4) The post has shown me how FEAR has shown it's silly head. I myself never mentioned FEAR I only had concerns, concerns because I found we might have a choice when the times comes! No FEAR mentioned!

carryattune
Thanks for this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTUQyEr-sg0
Good to have a laugh :)

PS that theme shows it self in this other Disney cartoon 'Wreck-It Ralph'!

Love, Peace, Hugs and Laughs,
Alan

[Ron Mauer Sr]

"3. move away from the light........ keep saying to your true self " I wish to return to source" " I want to go home" repeat this over and over head away from the false white light.
Simon"

This is absolutely FALSE, unless you live in a fear based reality of course. Why do I know this? Because I know for a fact that you are the creators of your reality, you've seen the science and the response above IS NOT, the language the "field"(source field) speaks and if you don't speak the proper language, the "field" won't respond to your request.

Hi we-R-one,

For this post, let's not consider which is the better choice, or if PSYOPS is involved. Let's not bring fear into the discussion at all. Let's talk about personal experience.

If you have memories of being in this situation of choosing the light or not, can you tell us what you chose and then relate your experience?

What "language" did you speak to get the "field" to respond? I'm only asking for, lets say, a brief explanation of the top 3 examples if you feel comfortable responding.

Are these fair questions? Or is this out of context of your post?

Thanks, Ron

[Synchronicity]

Just a thought. I have seen many, many people die, worked on them medically at that time and felt their energy beneath my hands, seen their spirit/energy leave them, then helped many, many step into/through death, worked with them on the other side when needed. Death itself isn't difficult at all. The time before it can be if there is pain, fear, confusion, reluctance, or anger present, but death itself just isn't painful, hard, or scary. We are told all kinds of things about it and punishment and so forth. But it isn't. I have seen a few screaming and begging not to go...very annoying religious types (not dissing religion...these were people trying to convert everyone and are totally obnoxious about it...not your average person), but at the moment of death that fear eased and they went off as well. Otherwise I'm not commenting, but had to say that. Take it for whatever you wish or feel free to ignore.

[AngelArmy]

Starseed108, you might find the answer you are searching for on wespenre.com. I learned of this site from Kerry Cassidy two or three years back and have read all of his research, from Level 1 to his most recent Level 4. In section 4 go to book 16 I believe, you will find the answer you are looking for. Going into the light is a trap, so that you are perpetually recycled back to earth through re incarnation at the whim of En.Ki. AKA Lucifer etc. There is still a grid around this planet in which we are unable to escape accoring to Penre. I suggest that you begin reading his work from Level 1 on ward. It will take you a very long time to get through all of his very well researched material, especially is you decide to check out his references and do your own research as I have. It is well worth the effort. You are not obliged to accept what Penre says. He makes it very clear that his research is about his journey and all are welcomed to explore and read his discoveries. You may or may not agree with some of his findings but you will learn a great deal, and may not necessarily agree with all you read. The choice is your.

Fantastic!!!! muchas gracias

[AngelArmy]

Quite some reactions already, so forgive me if the question has already been asked but: can we escape the light? Even if knowing.

We can all know this information now and plan in our heads that when we die we're not to go towards any bright light, but when I look at earth,...How shall I say it? Apparently the light is very attractive...On earth experience has shown that is very difficult to not go to attractive "things"...You know?

what worries me is if we dont go into the light - surely we are left in the darkness

[AngelArmy]

and lest we forget - the tibetan book of the dead :ph34r:

[seeker/reader]

Maybe the FEAR that we need to recognize is that we have been programmed since forever to FEAR the DARK. The dark has been loaded with all kinds of NEGATIVE connotations which I believe is one of the ultimate PSYOPs out there, orchestrated by the controllers with a long term agenda in mind.

The DARK has been connected with NEGATIVE themes such as evil, corruption, deception, ignorance and death. The dark is supposedly a place to be FEARED as it is full of all things vile and lecherous. It has been portrayed as a place where we will be consumed and can never escape from.

Like the DARK, the LIGHT has had many connotations tied to it, which I too think is another of the ultimate PSYOPs, done on purpose by the controllers with a long term agenda in mind.

The LIGHT is connected to many themes such as goodness, purity, the truth, knowledge and life. As a result, the light is supposedly a place of sanctuary. It is portrayed as a place where you should want to go.

Keeping these potential PSYOPS in mind, when we die and we find ourselves in the DARK VOID, maybe we should not allow ourselves to fall into the pre-programmed trap of becoming FEARFUL of the DARK.

Maybe we should follow the advice of Paul Atreides from the movie DUNE. Here is the litany against FEAR

*********************
"I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past me I will turn to see fears path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing......Only I will remain."
**********************************************

Maybe we should not allow ourselves to become FEARFUL of the DARK VOID. We should let the fear pass over us so we do not run to the FALSE LIGHT for salvation. We should not follow the PROGRAMMING. We will not fall into the trap. We will let the fear pass over us and where the fear has gone, there will be nothing (a falsity).... ONLY WE WILL REMAIN.

Maybe we don't have to choose the light over the dark. Maybe it is a false choice. Maybe they are playing good cop and bad cop, but they are still playing both roles. Duality is crammed down our throats. Maybe a different path in necessary.

****
removed simon's quote

****
removed reference to simon's quote

******

maybe we need to take the concepts of light or lack there of, the dark, out of the equation. Maybe it is all a deception that is part of the 3D matrix that we need to rise above when we leave the 3D body.

[korgh]

Quite some reactions already, so forgive me if the question has already been asked but: can we escape the light? Even if knowing.

We can all know this information now and plan in our heads that when we die we're not to go towards any bright light, but when I look at earth,...How shall I say it? Apparently the light is very attractive...On earth experience has shown that is very difficult to not go to attractive "things"...You know?

what worries me is if we dont go into the light - surely we are left in the darkness


LOL!
I tought the same, hahaha..
Could we bring a flashlight? or maybe a dog?

[Sebastion]

What Nancy has posted here is excellent stuff, for I too, have found it to be as she has stated. Nancy has a beautiful way with words, I wish I had the same ability to write as eloquently as she does. After reading all posts on this thread, it is rather easy to come to at least one basic conclusion. It has been stated countless times that the "way" is within you, it always has been and always will be.

The greatest mistake one can make is to constantly look outside of you for answers that can only be found within you and you alone. No one can do for you what only you can do for yourself. This would include looking for the light "outside" of you upon death of the physical. Once you put your foot down and draw a line in the sand and decide that you are going to find out for yourself once and for all, what the truth is for you, then the journey to knowing can earnestly begin. Until then all else is conjecture.





Light can be used as a method of attracting souls to a particular "place" where they can be delayed/trapped for a while and it can be a very valuable lesson. If one has not yet realized their powers of creation and absolute control they can be subject to others attempting to and often succeeding in controlling them. Eventually they will tire of being controlled, even if that control is by a "god" who seems to be benevolent and loving. So light has many aspects and can be used as an attractor tool in it's lower vibrational frequencies. The higher and highest frequencies of light also strongly attract us. Light is love and varying frequencies have greater or lesser intensities of love. We are attracted to love since that is what we are as Source.

There are many so called heavens where many souls remain and are trapped only by their own acceptance, acquiescence and beliefs. Some will eventually find their own powers of creation and will leave, others will be reborn, others will remain for an indeterminate time (time doesn't mean much at this point). Some will be aided by those who have chosen to help free souls who are trapped in either heavens or hells. All they have to do is to change their beliefs, tap into love and accept their power of creation. Then they can leave and the trap is no longer a trap but just a lesson along the way.

I don't look on this process as a negative or diabolical one, even if some who play these games are motivated by the desire for power and control over others. Others are actually helping more unevolved souls to evolve at a pace that suits them. As long as an individual soul accepts or is influenced by fear it will be able to be controlled. Love conquers fear and one who has merged into love completely cannot be controlled and has no fear. But if a soul is not quite ready to reach full power and merge with Source, these different planes and dimensions (including this earth reality we're aware of right now) all contain valuable lessons and exciting games, no matter if they seem to be hellish or heavenly.

We choose to be here and we choose to have an awareness of being apart from Source. I don't know the reason why we, as Source, choose to come into the Creation. But the Source and the Creation are in an endless loop with many dimensions to be experienced. At the same time the Source and the Creation are one and the same. It's hard for my mind to really comprehend this and I only have total knowingness when I am completely merged with Source....and then it doesn't matter at all. As Source I don't look for reasons I just AM...and it's all perfect. It is in the Creation where we play the games and vie for energy, power and control in various ways. So we are playing with other aspects of ourselves, the positive/loving and the negative/evil. We are not separate but only perceive ourselves as separate. It must be fun or we wouldn't continue doing it!

[korgh]

What Nancy has posted here is excellent stuff, for I too, have found it to be as she has stated. Nancy has a beautiful way with words, I wish I had the same ability to write as eloquently as she does. After reading all posts on this thread, it is rather easy to come to at least one basic conclusion. It has been stated countless times that the "way" is within you, it always has been and always will be.

The greatest mistake one can make is to constantly look outside of you for answers that can only be found within you and you alone. No one can do for you what only you can do for yourself. This would include looking for the light "outside" of you upon death of the physical. Once you put your foot down and draw a line in the sand and decide that you are going to find out for yourself once and for all, what the truth is for you, then the journey to knowing can earnestly begin. Until then all else is conjecture.
........
........



Yep, i agree with you. The choice is yours but the traps exist.. as NancyV wisely said.
If we live in a world (our dimension) and we are here to evolve our spirit or energy, when we leave our body/shell another amazing journey is waiting for us and a panoply of unthinkable things are waiting for a new soul, fresh and ready to..ready for..(?) <-- that question really frighten me.
I'm not prepared yet (spiritual, emotional, etc..) to get in whatever light, but i don't want to stay and wait for something even worst in the darkness (if exist).. I hope to meet some people on the way and see whats going on around and if someone brings some "light" to the situation. If i die right now, i don't buy any ticket before see who will be served in the "menu".

Cheers
Korgh (The Wary)

[Christine]

I keep coming back to this thread, not in that I am uneasy about my transit out of the physical reality. .. but because I find the discussion very interesting.

starseed108 and others fear, if we don't go to the light surely we will be left in the darkness… unfortunately darkness is something not understood and we are taught to fear it. Having been a voyager of the "dark sea of awareness", having been literally cast into the void I can tell you that one learns to see in the dark.. the dark unknown is just that.. the dark unknown, it isn't sinister at all.

Unfortunately the sinister elements have been able to use the cover of darkness to hide.. no wonder they go to great lengths to keep us in fear.

Take heart… conquer fear and stand on the edge of infinity.. embrace the unknown.

One can be blinded by the light, just as one can get lost in the dark. It takes a KNOWING of the SELF. In other words KNOWLEDGE is key.. what we don't have knowledge of can trap us. We need more than anything to take off the shackles of ignorance.

So what we remember, what we experience, the knowledge we obtain, the people we meet, the fear we conquer are the only reality that will answer the question.. where am I going after I die? You decide.

Science has met spirituality.. we have everything we need to know available to us. Explore, explore, explore. This is Avalon at its best… each of us is a part of creation, each of us is creating our reality… and we need to remember this creation is a joint effort.

I have recalled many of my lifetimes and in-between lives now.. I have experienced implant stations (not recommended) and most certainly my memory has been blurred again and again.. On thing I have learned is this.. you don't have to go anywhere.. you are already there. So leaving the body you can choose to remain integrated. And if you want to "go somewhere" remember that all you have to do is BE there. I apologize if my words make simple of something that can appear rather complex.. after going through as much of the complexity as you can remember to come home to the simplest answer… it is ALL about you.



what worries me is if we dont go into the light - surely we are left in the darkness

[Bill Ryan]

-------

1) Here's the rub.

Of course, Simon can't prove what he states (although I fully agree with him about "not going into the light"... and I'm not sure that I can "prove" it either).

And we have to remember that it's rather astonishing (to me, at least) that Simon is able to keep up with the barrage of questions and feedback comments that he receives here (and, I'm sure, in a number of other places as well).

If all Simon's answers were written with due intellectual rigor (that he does NOT have time to do), each time he makes what to a few might appear to be an irritatingly definitive statement, he might add as a footnote caveat:




* These are my own opinions only. I'm quite sure of what I say, but by the nature of personal certainty that is de facto a subjective phenomenon. I do have sources sometimes that I either cannot reveal (if they are human contacts), or cannot easily explain (if they are ET ones).

I fully support, encourage and endorse that all readers, whether Avalon members or not, should do their own research and not rely on me for instant 'that's-great-because-I-don't-have-to-do-any-thinking-for-myself' answers.

I am not an oracle or a guru; just a human being (sort of! :) ) doing his best to assist others in any way I can. I encourage all discussion on these matters. I also encourage everyone to work diligently to come to their own sovereign certainty on this and every other matter, just as I have myself.

If every post that Simon made had the above (or something like it) appended, then maybe he would not receive so much criticism -- which in some cases has been more than a little unfair and unkind.

2) Re "Going into the light":

The point is, I think, that when you leave your body, as we all sometime surely will, just REMEMBER REMEMBER REMEMBER that you can make a choice: and that going into the light does not have to be a kneejerk reaction. That alone might save you from what is known as the between-lives implant.

Socrates might have argued it like this:




So last time you died, you went into the light. And you tell me you have a compulsion to do exactly the same thing next time.

But now, you're here, with your memory wiped, and you can't remember a damn thing about anything.

Is it possible all this is connected?

[we-R-one]

With that, sovereign people will question and repel it tooth and nail whereas unaware ones will most probably be manipulated into: "Oh! Look! What a pretty butterfly!"

You're thought process as do others, omits consideration of the available science. But that's ok because here's what I think you should do:

1. Run away from the light...wait...don't run, sprint as fast as you can.
2. Don't look within, ask others what to do as you have no power and can't think for yourself.
3. Only accept fear based ideologies because you're more comfortable vibrating at lower frequencies.
4. Absolutely without a doubt, ignore all science and ancient text, as it's just meaningless crap that no one can understand anyways.

Do all those things and you will be just fine as the hologram will respond accordingly to your beliefs.

[Hervé]

I guess it's a very difficult endeavour to look at this square in the eye:


Seems to me the signal got lost in the noise...

It's very simple, when Simon and others "talk" of the white light construed to be experienced with NDEs, we are talking about a similar BEAM that's used for abductions. Point final/Full stop.

With that, sovereign people will question and repel it tooth and nail whereas unaware ones will most probably be manipulated into: "Oh! Look! What a pretty butterfly!"

Sorry if that's too simple...

[we-R-one]

I guess it's a very difficult endeavour to look at this square in the eye:


Seems to me the signal got lost in the noise...

It's very simple, when Simon and others "talk" of the white light construed to be experienced with NDEs, we are talking about a similar BEAM that's used for abductions. Point final/Full stop.

With that, sovereign people will question and repel it tooth and nail whereas unaware ones will most probably be manipulated into: "Oh! Look! What a pretty butterfly!"

Sorry if that's too simple...

You're still missing the science and it's just as simple. You create your own reality, period. So if you want to believe that the beam of light is that of a light used for abductions that is the reality you create. Yes, this reality you suggest is true, ...why? Because you live in a hologram and all possibilities are available so you experience the possibility of what you believe. THAT IS WHAT THE SCIENCE IS SHOWING US. All possibilities are what's possible. You are in the driver's seat. Everyone will have a different experience.

[Hervé]

Please be Bill's guest and start a thread explaining "The Science" to the many abductees, past and current, members or guests, who gravitate around Project Avalon :)

[donk]

I have no strong feelings either way about each individual's decision upon the final time of leaving their body, but I think the discussion is great in planting the seeds of the ability to actually consciously make a free will decision at that time that you may have otherwise automatically unthinkingly made a choice of utmost importance.

I'm not sure what I'll do, but I do like to get everyone's take. Dissent is important, criticism is a gift, no one is beyond being questioned, and perhaps it is most important to question our most sacredly held beliefs.

Some great philosopher may say it better: Not all (or everyone) is exactly as they may seem.

[we-R-one]

Please be Bill's guest and start a thread explaining "The Science" to the many abductees, past and current, members or guests, who gravitate around Project Avalon :)

I've posted the some of the science. I've given a link of a video to watch that discusses the science in its entirety. No point in reinventing the wheel. If you won't take the time to watch the video I already posted than I can't help you or others. You are missing the entire point I'm making because you don't understand what it means to live in a hologram. So all possibilities are available. So people are making choices to believe whatever they want to believe and they can because that possibility is already available in the hologram. So what they're experiencing is real. But that does not make it real for everyone else. We will see the same things, but that's because it's already in the hologram. We know this because of the implications of several studies such as this one done in Geneva. I already posted this so it says to me you're not paying attention or absorbing what I'm posting.

1. Switzerland, University of Geneva July 25, 1997, by Nicolas Gisin- Whatever they do to one particle, the other particle acts like it’s still connected even though it’s 14 miles apart. This is called entanglement. Once particles are physically separated, even though they’re not together physically the energy is still connected. Scientists tell us, if we could go back in time, to the beginning of time of our universe, everything was connected. The point being, the experiment showed that once a particle is physically connected and then physically separated the energy is still connected, which is why we are all still connected. Summary: Particles once joined physically, appear to remain linked energetically.

[Christine]

Yes… and one of the paradoxes that neither science, nor you, nor I can fully comprehend yet… You can say whatever you want with certainty.. and then your experience expands, now go work with those who have had their minds terrorized and their Being tortured into accepting realities and made to do things so against their basic ethics and integrity that it practically destroys them .. ask them what they think about how simple it is to control their experiences within the hologram.

I don't know if you have ever experienced the literal terror of being fractured. My guess is not for out of such experiences comes humility.



I guess it's a very difficult endeavour to look at this square in the eye:


Seems to me the signal got lost in the noise...

It's very simple, when Simon and others "talk" of the white light construed to be experienced with NDEs, we are talking about a similar BEAM that's used for abductions. Point final/Full stop.

With that, sovereign people will question and repel it tooth and nail whereas unaware ones will most probably be manipulated into: "Oh! Look! What a pretty butterfly!"

Sorry if that's too simple...

You're still missing the science and it's just as simple. You create your own reality, period. So if you want to believe that the beam of light is that of a light used for abductions that is the reality you create. Yes, this reality you suggest is true, ...why? Because you live in a hologram and all possibilities are available so you experience the possibility of what you believe. THAT IS WHAT THE SCIENCE IS SHOWING US. All possibilities are what's possible. You are in the driver's seat. Everyone will have a different experience.

[Hervé]

Who is missing what:



[...]

.... The only reason I feel compelled to respond is because I see people being mislead and it bothers me to the very core.

[...][...]

You use results from science to demonstrate your point and that’s well taken: I have no problems with that whatsoever.

[...]

What you seem to dismiss is at least 10,000 years of programing/implants designed to go against the "science" of an holographic universe.

Also, as I mentioned in that same quoted post, it is that very science that has been turned around to enslave individuals via electronic means.

AFAIC I quit adding to the noise that keeps burying the signal.

[donk]

Who is missing what:



[...]

.... The only reason I feel compelled to respond is because I see people being mislead and it bothers me to the very core.

[...][...]

You use results from science to demonstrate your point and that’s well taken: I have no problems with that whatsoever.

[...]

What you seem to dismiss is at least 10,000 years of programing/implants designed to go against the "science" of an holographic universe.

Also, as I mentioned in that same quoted post, it is that very science that has been turned around to enslave individuals via electronic means.

AFAIC I quit adding to the noise that keeps burying the signal.

But what's "noise" to you might spark something in someone else's reality. Your discussion, and especially disagreement, is very important, and could be productive...with some loving detachment from all involved, and breaking free of the program that you need to "win" a argument or that you can't criticize (ideas or individuals) or that disagreement and criticism are "negative"...they are not, unless you make it so

[we-R-one]

Who is missing what:



[...]

.... The only reason I feel compelled to respond is because I see people being mislead and it bothers me to the very core.

[...][...]

You use results from science to demonstrate your point and that’s well taken: I have no problems with that whatsoever.

[...]

What you seem to dismiss is at least 10,000 years of programing/implants designed to go against the "science" of an holographic universe.

Also, as I mentioned in that same quoted post, it is that very science that has been turned around to enslave individuals via electronic means.



I answered this question already about why it's taken 10,000 years. Go back and read. Victimhood is a favorite past-time that seems to be quite challenging for many to conquer. You see this is why I see no point in starting another thread because:

1. The viewer either won't take the time to read the material and/or isn't capable of absorbing what they've read.

2. Some would rather embrace fear based ideologies because it serves their agenda.

You can believe whatever you want. Simon can believe whatever he wants, we all can believe what ever we want, that's how the hologram works. If you want the reality to change, the one we live in as a collective, to be one of peace, than you have to quit supporting fear based idealogies as a collective. This is what the science shows us. I can't help if people won't take the time to read and understand. I share what I know because I've had personal experiences that are matching what the science says so I can validate the findings and this is why I have the knowledge base for the understanding in which I share with forum members.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Who is missing what:



[...]

.... The only reason I feel compelled to respond is because I see people being mislead and it bothers me to the very core.

[...][...]

You use results from science to demonstrate your point and that’s well taken: I have no problems with that whatsoever.

[...]

What you seem to dismiss is at least 10,000 years of programing/implants designed to go against the "science" of an holographic universe.

Also, as I mentioned in that same quoted post, it is that very science that has been turned around to enslave individuals via electronic means.



I answered this question already about why it's taken 10,000 years. Go back and read. Victimhood is a favorite past-time that seems to be quite challenging for many to conquer. You see this is why I see no point in starting another thread because:

1. The viewer either won't take the time to read the material and/or isn't capable of absorbing what they've read.

2. Some would rather embrace fear based ideologies because it serves their agenda.

You can believe whatever you want. Simon can believe whatever he wants, we all can believe what ever we want, that's how the hologram works. If you want the reality to change, the one we live in as a collective, to be one of peace, than you have to quit supporting fear based idealogies as a collective. This is what the science shows us. I can't help if people won't take the time to read and understand. I share what I know because I've had personal experiences that are matching what the science says so I can validate the findings and this is why I have the knowledge base for the understanding in which I share with forum members.

We-R-one,

Your personal experiences, including how you communicate with the "field" may be helpful to others who want to navigate what appears to me as being a multi-dimensional chess game.

We can learn from:

1. How other's interpret their experience.
2. How we interpret our personal experience.
3. Science.

Each of these are a cloudy mixture of truths mixed with distortions concerning the nature of our journey through what may be holographic realities.

I would not want to exclude any theories or interpretations as I put my reality puzzle together. But I'll choose the simpler versions to explore first.

Is there any personal experience you can share?

Thanks, Ron

[we-R-one]

Yes… and one of the paradoxes that neither science, nor you, nor I can fully comprehend yet… You can say whatever you want with certainty.. and then your experience expands, now go work with those who have had their minds terrorized and their Being tortured into accepting realities and made to do things so against their basic ethics and integrity that it practically destroys them .. ask them what they think about how simple it is to control their experiences within the hologram.

I don't know if you have ever experienced the literal terror of being fractured. My guess is not for out of such experiences comes humility.



I guess it's a very difficult endeavour to look at this square in the eye:


Seems to me the signal got lost in the noise...

It's very simple, when Simon and others "talk" of the white light construed to be experienced with NDEs, we are talking about a similar BEAM that's used for abductions. Point final/Full stop.

With that, sovereign people will question and repel it tooth and nail whereas unaware ones will most probably be manipulated into: "Oh! Look! What a pretty butterfly!"

Sorry if that's too simple...

You're still missing the science and it's just as simple. You create your own reality, period. So if you want to believe that the beam of light is that of a light used for abductions that is the reality you create. Yes, this reality you suggest is true, ...why? Because you live in a hologram and all possibilities are available so you experience the possibility of what you believe. THAT IS WHAT THE SCIENCE IS SHOWING US. All possibilities are what's possible. You are in the driver's seat. Everyone will have a different experience.

...sigh.....somebody help me.... :Cry:...ok, where's the candy mountain video...kidding, just looking for humor...Finefeather, Greybeard? maybe you can say it better than me. There's a piece of the puzzle that's missing here that some aren't getting. I try to speak as clearly as possible to simplify the message so all can understand.

I'm not making fun of you guys, this is a general comment for all...I don't know how to reach you...I can see what the problem is,....... GO WATCH THE VIDEO....GO WATCH THE VIDEO...GO WATCH THE VIDEO...GO WATCH THE VIDEO....then go back and WATCH IT AGAIN, so that you can absorb, THEN come back and talk.

[we-R-one]

Who is missing what:



[...]

.... The only reason I feel compelled to respond is because I see people being mislead and it bothers me to the very core.

[...][...]

You use results from science to demonstrate your point and that’s well taken: I have no problems with that whatsoever.

[...]

What you seem to dismiss is at least 10,000 years of programing/implants designed to go against the "science" of an holographic universe.

Also, as I mentioned in that same quoted post, it is that very science that has been turned around to enslave individuals via electronic means.



I answered this question already about why it's taken 10,000 years. Go back and read. Victimhood is a favorite past-time that seems to be quite challenging for many to conquer. You see this is why I see no point in starting another thread because:

1. The viewer either won't take the time to read the material and/or isn't capable of absorbing what they've read.

2. Some would rather embrace fear based ideologies because it serves their agenda.

You can believe whatever you want. Simon can believe whatever he wants, we all can believe what ever we want, that's how the hologram works. If you want the reality to change, the one we live in as a collective, to be one of peace, than you have to quit supporting fear based idealogies as a collective. This is what the science shows us. I can't help if people won't take the time to read and understand. I share what I know because I've had personal experiences that are matching what the science says so I can validate the findings and this is why I have the knowledge base for the understanding in which I share with forum members.

We-R-one,

Your personal experiences, including how you communicate with the "field" may be helpful to others who want to navigate what appears to me as being a multi-dimensional chess game.

We can learn from:

1. How other's interpret their experience.
2. How we interpret our personal experience.
3. Science.

All of these are a cloudy mixture of truths mixed with distortions concerning the nature of our journey through what may be holographic realities.

I would not want to exclude any theories or interpretations as I put my reality puzzle together. But I'll choose the simpler versions to explore first.

Is there any personal experience you can share?

Thanks, Ron

Ron I'll come back later and answer your questions...I need a break, got things to do. Sorry it's taking me so long to respond, I won't forget you.

[thunder24]

aJhnOq2q3ag

"1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day."

This may b out of context and it may not, so take it for what its worth. If we take God in this quote to mean source, then there was darkness and sound as part of source before there was light. God said the light was good, but didn't say the dark was bad. It can also be taken as the separation/contrast of light and dark is a good thing.

I know scripture has its fans and nay-Sayers, but it keeps coming to mind probably because of childhood programming, never-the-less, what keeps hitting me is that there was sound and darkness before there was light, and the supposed creator/Source was there prior to that light...

[greybeard]

In the words of Eckhart Tolle "There never was anyone out there to do anything to you"
My mind made my life hell till I started reading enlightened sages over thirty years ago.
AA got me started on that.
Programming or no programming---I did that to me.
Through the 12 steps of AA I got sanity and serenity.
In trust I surrendered to the God of my understanding---the only other choice was wet brain, suicide--death.
That blind faith worked and has seen me through many difficult situations.
It has also seen many millions recover from alcoholism.
Alcoholism always led to death till Bill W went to Jung who said "Neither my science or art can help you" he suggested going to a spiritual group which was the fore runner of AA.

My world does not include fear.
I trust implicitly that when I exit the body I will be looked after in the same way Im looked after in this world.
Some things cant be proved but science is getting very close to proving Oneness.
The sages say from personal experience---"I am the totality all of it" One without a second.

Everyone is free to believe what they want to.
All I can say is go on your own experience----as the Buddha said "Put no head above your own"

My experience leads me believe that on death whatever presents it self will be right for this Self.

Chris

[Kalamos]

(ignore the thanks to this post, as it has been edited and restored)

EDIT: All the questions I ask below are not for me. I have my own answers. If you wish to answer and share you view, go on ahead. I'm asking from a viewpoint of someone who would be looking for answers to these questions from others.

What do some of you think is next for your Consciousness when you go back to Source? What then?

Do you think you'll get to go to another planet and live in 3d?

Do you think that you can then live in 4d if you choose?

Do you think could go to 5d, 6d, 7d? Or do anything because we are gods?

What about Earth and Humanity that is enslaved by Aliens?

Do you think escaping the Soul Cycle will then liberate you to some how help Humanity from a higher dimension? How?

(some of us are getting ideas about Source, dimensions, and possibilities about our Divinity from multiple source, where we've picked our definitions and ideas from differing Sources, none of which has given a single Paradigm that could stand alone. we have ideas about Light and Traps and our godhood from Great Minds and scholars, and channelers alike ... anyway)

If we are gods, and every truly liberated being who's gone on has become a god, then why do you think all those gods out there haven't stopped this Soul Cycle that the Aliens have built. Are the Aliens just that much more powerful than us?

How did we get here in the first place? Did the aliens capture us gods and put us here? Did they create us just to be enslaved as some suggest? Were we ever gods?

Let's think about our ideas and definitions here.

This idea of creating our own reality is escapism in my eyes. And many of us are in denial and false confidence in our potential (of evolving into something higher).

Go to Source upon death, like all the Buddhas who wen't before us, right? Then you are gone? Free? Go to another dimension or multi-verse where there are no Bad Aliens?

Would a true god stand for the abuse and enslavement of our Humanity, if we were children and brothers of gods? Are there no gods in our World?

Are the aliens just that powerful that not even gods can stop this?

We have to consider that we are building our own paradigms to assure our egos that we, as enlightened experiencers, and informed beings can do and be something that might not be true. Then we have people who talk to aliens, who talk to insiders, who talk to themselves that, and they are interestingly coming up with the same theme (symbolic archetype from the mental world), who each are assured by their contacts about names, and dates, and cosmologies/cosmogonies that for differ by great and varying degrees, but offer that same theme?

These stories about Aliens are symbolic, in my opinion, we are really interpretation them in the wrong way.

How many of you are really honest about your experiences? Was your abduction real or just sleep paralysis induced experience that your Mind interprets similarly to others because it's a new experience (well not really, demons and faeries have abducted people in the past); it's an experience that is subjective but connected that we are sharing with others, perhaps.

But seriously, how can everyone be right about the THEME, if all their details are different?

I consider that this is a selfish en-devour of escape artists, believing and propagating this idea.

If you were truly convicted and cared for others, that this is TRUTH, then why not go screaming at the Hill Tops:

"We are being enslaved by a group of cosmic species that feed off us and recycle our souls!

"You must escape and here is how!

"When you die, turn away from the Light, ask to go to Source! That's right, Source.

"Just say 'I want to go to Source', and 'I want to go home', say that over and over again, and you will be free!"

"Better yet, kill yourself now, and do it!"

"It's okay, you are a god!"

"Now go tell others about this so we, as Humanity can be free!"

Is this your new religion?

I'm trying to understand this, but I just don't get it. And I'm not at this time impelled to go read Cash, Parkes, and the fake Indian guy who are interpreting the same Mental Idea. Worse, it could be an Idea that is patently false and in place in some peoples Minds by design. But that's just a nutty idea I play around with.

There are better answers to our condition of Spiritual Evolution.

There are really good ideas coming through to us from great minds, but they are tarnished by their own subconscious, and the paradigms are unsteady and incomplete by themselves, so WE start filling in gaps from our favorites ideas from religions, sciences, philosophies, and so we continue this New Age soup. It's stinks and is overflowing.

I don't know, people, I'm trying. Please help me to figure this out? I'll be patient if you are.

And look, don't come at me with "you need to find your Self to understand" or "We create our own reality and find our own Truths" -- I feel this is nonsense, and that we are creating our realities just in our Minds, based off emotional need (and lately, escapism).

How sure were you of all your past beliefs and paradigms? How is it they keep changing every seven years or so for some of you? Do you really think you've found the Answers from people who say go avoid the Light? We're mixing paradigms all over the place here!

STO STS ... great concepts.

Is it STS to go to Source?

Truth and Knowledge of Reality isn't written in words here or there.

In a few more years you might find you have added and subtracted to your paradigms to continue your wavering. That's my opinion, and I'm talking to my 'self' too.

I ranted. I'll try better next time.

Let's not be OVERLY nice and respectful here when we consider how to express our conflicting view points. I said OVERLY nice and respectful, which I fee

[Kalamos]

..........

[thunder24]

What do some of you think is next for your Consciousness when you go back to Source? What then?


what makes u think we left source?

[Synchronicity]

I suggest turning off the tv, closing the laptop, turning off the cell phone, going into nature if it helps you, sitting quietly without anyone telling you what is right or wrong, and just breathing, listening, looking at stars if you like or water flowing, grass waving in the breeze, or whatever you like...and then listening. Hear the voice within you, the breeze, the water, feel the sun on your face or moonlight, and if fear comes up gently let it pass by and move on. That takes out the egos of those who preach, takes out the middleman, and allows us to hear ourselves, hear the universe, and sort through the energy around us without the filters of people, agendas, media, programming, and expectations.

If you don't like to be still take a walk, if you like to lie back just get into yoga corpse pose, or whatever feels right to you. In the end (or the beginning of the next beginning) there won't be people telling us where to go and what to do, so finding out what is ours and what is put on us by others can be very healing. These things take us to whatever our personal source is...they reconnect us to who we are and the planet upon which we live, the universe, and remind us who we want to be in this life. It is nice to know what that voice sounds like to avoid making bad choices or ending up going along with the crowd without realizing it. When we die, if we know ourselves and who we are, that step over is much simpler.

I say close the laptop because I have had many people come with anxiety and depression, and almost always they watch a lot of tv news and read sites over and over. It changes how you feel and think and makes us doubt that we even have a voice or can make a difference if we aren't careful. FB is one place I see that takes over and makes it hard to hear anything but the negatives.

To each his or her own...just going by what I see really often.

[Kalamos]

I just want to say, I have my working hypothesis that is ever changing. I've have my mystical experiences as many others here have. I know what I currently use to formulate and add to my world view. I've been around the block, just like most of us here.

I'm not looking for answers for my self. My world view is influenced primarily by Esoterics, and I have my own convictions about it.

I'm trying to pick apart and describe what I think are ideas that are WAY OFF. I'm trying to understand what others believe.

"what makes u think we left source?"

In my world view, we left source a long time ago, and it will be a long journey back.

But if I were to be under the influence of Simon and others who suggest that Aliens Trap our souls on earth, I would answer the question you ask differently ...

"What makes me think we left Source?"

Because Simon and others have suggested we can to return Source upon our physical death, by escaping a Soul Catcher Light Trap.

If I have to return to something, I consider that I'm not there right now.

[Kalamos]

I suggest turning off the tv, closing the laptop, turning off the cell phone, going into nature if it helps you, sitting quietly without anyone telling you what is right or wrong, and just breathing, listening, looking at stars if you like or water flowing, grass waving in the breeze, or whatever you like...and then listening. Hear the voice within you, the breeze, the water, feel the sun on your face or moonlight, and if fear comes up gently let it pass by and move on. That takes out the egos of those who preach, takes out the middleman, and allows us to hear ourselves, hear the universe, and sort through the energy around us without the filters of people, agendas, media, programming, and expectations.

If you don't like to be still take a walk, if you like to lie back just get into yoga corpse pose, or whatever feels right to you. In the end (or the beginning of the next beginning) there won't be people telling us where to go and what to do, so finding out what is ours and what is put on us by others can be very healing. These things take us to whatever our personal source is...they reconnect us to who we are and the planet upon which we live, the universe, and remind us who we want to be in this life. It is nice to know what that voice sounds like to avoid making bad choices or ending up going along with the crowd without realizing it. When we die, if we know ourselves and who we are, that step over is much simpler.

I say close the laptop because I have had many people come with anxiety and depression, and almost always they watch a lot of tv news and read sites over and over. It changes how you feel and think and makes us doubt that we even have a voice or can make a difference if we aren't careful. FB is one place I see that takes over and makes it hard to hear anything but the negatives.

To each his or her own...just going by what I see really often.

Nice message. I can't help but feel it was directed to me, but I could be wrong. If it were, which I don't know if it was, but if it were, I would just try and reassure you that I am just fine.

We are too nice here, people. This is a discussion forum, and I'm here discussing ideas that I think are very important to some.

Again, I have my beliefs, and I am just fine. If you don't believe me, then PM me about it.

I'm here in this thread trying to understand a different viewpoint then mine, because I want to be here, not because I have any trouble in my soul or mind that is causing an emotional problem. If you feel differently, that's fine. Thanks for understanding.

[thunder24]

"what makes u think we left source?"

In my world view, we left source a long time ago, and it will be a long journey back.

But if I were to be under the influence of Simon and others who suggest that Aliens Trap our souls on earth, I would answer the question you ask differently ...

"What makes me think we left Source?"

Because Simon and others have suggest we can to return Source upon our physical death, by escaping a Soul Catcher Light Trap.

If I have to return to something, I consider that I'm not there right now.

Then both ways you see yourself being separate from that which is. Is this correct?

[Kalamos]

"what makes u think we left source?"

In my world view, we left source a long time ago, and it will be a long journey back.

But if I were to be under the influence of Simon and others who suggest that Aliens Trap our souls on earth, I would answer the question you ask differently ...

"What makes me think we left Source?"

Because Simon and others have suggest we can to return Source upon our physical death, by escaping a Soul Catcher Light Trap.

If I have to return to something, I consider that I'm not there right now.

Then both ways you see yourself being separate from that which is. Is this correct?

I'm not going to answer about what I believe here.

If I were someone who had no answers and was looking for some, I would consider that if I was being told that I can to Return to Source at physical death, that I must be separate from Source. (I would also wonder what Source is)

So yes, if I were under the influence of the Soul Catcher Paradigm, I would consider my Soul is trapped on Earth, and separate from Source, whatever that is.

[Agape]

Calamus and all ..

there's something 'little' I wish to insert here , also with respect to another thread of yours that I've only happened to notice minutes ago and your recent post full of questions.

Please listen carefully .. as this does not pertain only to you but others coming up with questions of great importance , 'life and death' matters , evolution of this world and beyond .

The following should have been made clear by some senior members of the Forum :

1/ seeking spiritual advice over the internet is risky endeavour . I'll never stop repeating this enough . While someone , somewhere, on the other side of the world may be more experienced, calibrated with knowledge , endowed with psychic powers of whatever sort ,
very few have the intention or capacity to serve as your personal guides . Even friends .. there's lots of superficiality - pervading even seemingly serious matters - happening on the net .
The path for each of to walk, to think through, to meditate and sleep on, the food you eat and shoes you wear have to remain your own ,

not anyones elses .

2/ Simon comes from unique 'place' in life , with unique experiences .. that aren't repeatable for most of the other people here .
What maybe a curse for one may be a blessing for another . In either case , his experiences are as original and unique as he experiences himself and can be shared only to certain lesser degree ..
even if you have spent time with him in real life, you'd not experience what he does because you are not him.
One of his 'mysteries' may be that he allows himself to be with himself, to reflect on his experiences .

That's something each person can do ... if they feel a reason and strong inner call to do so ,
that's why some people become 'hermits' even if being 'hermit' is not a goal of life, it's a means how to isolate yourself from superficial influences from others and reflect on problems, paradigms and deeper questions that you feel compelled to find answer for .

Ultimately .. all true spiritual teachers and guides .. will confirm to you that you alone can find true answers to your questions.
They can satisfy your quests temporarily and you'll be never , ever satisfied with someones else's answers .

Buddha said the same , he advised his disciples to go and test every 'claim' and truth personally rather than putting blind faith to it .
Jesus told you to ''seek the Kingdom of Heaven in your Heart'' or you shall never find it .

Every other realistic Master will tell you the same thing . 'Knowing' with capital K comes from personal experience , direct realisation , encounter with reality , it does not come from getting many questions answered by someone else .


By no means I mean to derail the beautiful and sentient discussion that is happening here .

But I don't really think it was Simons intent to become your 'guru' and intents are important .

3/As above , some of Simons experiences pertain solely and only to him and that's what he came to share , and what makes him vulnerable .

The names and feelings he gives to his ET friends, are his names and feelings .

You can't do any service to him, yourself or anyone else by adopting them .

As human beings, and when we descend to this plane of human experience, no matter our origins, we are all subjective in ways how we relate to each other , in our likes and dislikes . The same subjectivity we tend to experience to every other species ,
from tiny insects, dogs and cats to 'higher intelligencies' including ETs.

When people speak about Angels, Deities , Gods or dogs, each one is entitled to their own .. and their relationships to them are sacred .


Just adding another posting to the pile of your postings ... no matter how well meant, it 's going to matter very little to most of you .

On approaching something that is truly sensitive topic, I can but advice : stay sensitive . When trying to speak to some super-human intelligence ..even by means of some kind of medium... I advice, stay alert and intelligent .

Do not go further with your questions than is decent to expect answers to , guarantees that you won't be disappointed at the end .

Be serious about your life and search for truth .. something that won't be resolved in the internet Matrix . The Truth is Out There ... truly.



:hug:

[Calz]

I'm not going to answer about what I believe here.




Interesting response in lieu of all you have dumped in several threads with a troll like focus on one member.


So ... humor me before you leave ... who do you work for???

[Kalamos]

I'm not going to answer about what I believe here.




Interesting response in lieu of all you have dumped in several threads with a troll like focus on one member.


So ... humor me before you leave ... who do you work for???

No.

There is enough humor going around, and I'm not smirking.

I'll take a break from posting my viewpoints (but I'll be back).

I've written enough in my recent posts, and in my recent threads to convey my feelings, concerns and points of view, which as always, are subject to change.

[Calz]

I'll take a break from posting my viewpoints (but I'll be back).




You have already had one thread shut down ...

Why are you here???


http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/3d/c7/cc/3dc7cc20b76139b696d9968de1254538.jpg

[Sebastion]

An outstanding post from a very wise Lady! My thanks and respect to you Agape!




Calamus and all ..

there's something 'little' I wish to insert here , also with respect to another thread of yours that I've only happened to notice minutes ago and your recent post full of questions.

Please listen carefully .. as this does not pertain only to you but others coming up with questions of great importance , 'life and death' matters , evolution of this world and beyond .

The following should have been made clear by some senior members of the Forum :

1/ seeking spiritual advice over the internet is risky endeavour . I'll never stop repeating this enough . While someone , somewhere, on the other side of the world may be more experienced, calibrated with knowledge , endowed with psychic powers of whatever sort ,
very few have the intention or capacity to serve as your personal guides . Even friends .. there's lots of superficiality - pervading even seemingly serious matters - happening on the net .
The path for each of to walk, to think through, to meditate and sleep on, the food you eat and shoes you wear have to remain your own ,

not anyones elses .

2/ Simon comes from unique 'place' in life , with unique experiences .. that aren't repeatable for most of the other people here .
What maybe a curse for one may be a blessing for another . In either case , his experiences are as original and unique as he experiences himself and can be shared only to certain lesser degree ..
even if you have spent time with him in real life, you'd not experience what he does because you are not him.
One of his 'mysteries' may be that he allows himself to be with himself, to reflect on his experiences .

That's something each person can do ... if they feel a reason and strong inner call to do so ,
that's why some people become 'hermits' even if being 'hermit' is not a goal of life, it's a means how to isolate yourself from superficial influences from others and reflect on problems, paradigms and deeper questions that you feel compelled to find answer for .

Ultimately .. all true spiritual teachers and guides .. will confirm to you that you alone can find true answers to your questions.
They can satisfy your quests temporarily and you'll be never , ever satisfied with someones else's answers .

Buddha said the same , he advised his disciples to go and test every 'claim' and truth personally rather than putting blind faith to it .
Jesus told you to ''seek the Kingdom of Heaven in your Heart'' or you shall never find it .

Every other realistic Master will tell you the same thing . 'Knowing' with capital K comes from personal experience , direct realisation , encounter with reality , it does not come from getting many questions answered by someone else .


By no means I mean to derail the beautiful and sentient discussion that is happening here .

But I don't really think it was Simons intent to become your 'guru' and intents are important .

3/As above , some of Simons experiences pertain solely and only to him and that's what he came to share , and what makes him vulnerable .

The names and feelings he gives to his ET friends, are his names and feelings .

You can't do any service to him, yourself or anyone else by adopting them .

As human beings, and when we descend to this plane of human experience, no matter our origins, we are all subjective in ways how we relate to each other , in our likes and dislikes . The same subjectivity we tend to experience to every other species ,
from tiny insects, dogs and cats to 'higher intelligencies' including ETs.

When people speak about Angels, Deities , Gods or dogs, each one is entitled to their own .. and their relationships to them are sacred .


Just adding another posting to the pile of your postings ... no matter how well meant, it 's going to matter very little to most of you .

On approaching something that is truly sensitive topic, I can but advice : stay sensitive . When trying to speak to some super-human intelligence ..even by means of some kind of medium... I advice, stay alert and intelligent .

Do not go further with your questions than is decent to expect answers to , guarantees that you won't be disappointed at the end .

Be serious about your life and search for truth .. something that won't be resolved in the internet Matrix . The Truth is Out There ... truly.



:hug:

[Kalamos]

I apologize for loosing my cool and getting preachy in my recent posts. I'm striving to be a better communicator, and this place is helping me to that end, I hope.

I understand I might be missing a bigger picture that some of you have, so I'll be patient and strive for better self control from here on out.

But I do not regret bringing up the concern I brought up in another thread, no matter the fact that I could have gone about differently. I tried my best, and I will learn from all of this (as I already have).

I'm open to being wrong about Simon and others who I might have (directly or indirectly) also cast suspicions toward.

I did it on my own accord out of a genuine concern and if you can't see that, then that's your problem.

[Synchronicity]

I suggest turning off the tv, closing the laptop, turning off the cell phone, going into nature if it helps you, sitting quietly without anyone telling you what is right or wrong, and just breathing, listening, looking at stars if you like or water flowing, grass waving in the breeze, or whatever you like...and then listening. Hear the voice within you, the breeze, the water, feel the sun on your face or moonlight, and if fear comes up gently let it pass by and move on. That takes out the egos of those who preach, takes out the middleman, and allows us to hear ourselves, hear the universe, and sort through the energy around us without the filters of people, agendas, media, programming, and expectations.

If you don't like to be still take a walk, if you like to lie back just get into yoga corpse pose, or whatever feels right to you. In the end (or the beginning of the next beginning) there won't be people telling us where to go and what to do, so finding out what is ours and what is put on us by others can be very healing. These things take us to whatever our personal source is...they reconnect us to who we are and the planet upon which we live, the universe, and remind us who we want to be in this life. It is nice to know what that voice sounds like to avoid making bad choices or ending up going along with the crowd without realizing it. When we die, if we know ourselves and who we are, that step over is much simpler.

I say close the laptop because I have had many people come with anxiety and depression, and almost always they watch a lot of tv news and read sites over and over. It changes how you feel and think and makes us doubt that we even have a voice or can make a difference if we aren't careful. FB is one place I see that takes over and makes it hard to hear anything but the negatives.

To each his or her own...just going by what I see really often.

Nice message. I can't help but feel it was directed to me, but I could be wrong. If it were, which I don't know if it was, but if it were, I would just try and reassure you that I am just fine.

We are too nice here, people. This is a discussion forum, and I'm here discussing ideas that I think are very important to some.

Again, I have my beliefs, and I am just fine. If you don't believe me, then PM me about it.

I'm here in this thread trying to understand a different viewpoint then mine, because I want to be here, not because I have any trouble in my soul or mind that is causing an emotional problem. If you feel differently, that's fine. Thanks for understanding.

No, it wasn't aimed at you or anyone in particular, actually. If it were I would have replied with a quote of the person I was replying to. Unless I say a name or reply with a quote a comment is a general one. What do you mean that "we are too nice"? Why would anyone not be polite in a discussion thread? I'm a bit confused by that and why you would assume it would only be toward you when I didn't say that. If someone didn't ask me for help I wouldn't assume the person needed my intervention for anything unless it were an obvious emergency. I simply made a post based on what I see really often in real life...doesn't mean anything related to you in particular. You have your own path and I hope that it is everything you want it to be :)

[Roisin]

I apologize for loosing my cool and getting preachy in my recent posts. I'm striving to be a better communicator, and this place is helping me to that end, I hope.

I understand I might be missing a bigger picture that some of you have, so I'll be patient and strive for better self control from here on out.

But I do not regret bringing up the concern I brought up in another thread, no matter the fact that I could have gone about differently. I tried my best, and I will learn from all of this (as I already have).

I'm open to being wrong about Simon and others who I might have (directly or indirectly) also cast suspicions toward.

I did it on my own accord out of a genuine concern and if you can't see that, then that's your problem.

Suggestion: If you're in disagreement wrt to the prevailing sentiment in any forum on any particular issue, it's best to simply stay out out any discussions that are related in any way to topics of that nature. Believe me, you will save yourself a lot of grief by doing so. In the short run and the long run, it's just not worth it.;)

[Synchronicity]

I apologize for loosing my cool and getting preachy in my recent posts. I'm striving to be a better communicator, and this place is helping me to that end, I hope.

I understand I might be missing a bigger picture that some of you have, so I'll be patient and strive for better self control from here on out.

But I do not regret bringing up the concern I brought up in another thread, no matter the fact that I could have gone about differently. I tried my best, and I will learn from all of this (as I already have).

I'm open to being wrong about Simon and others who I might have (directly or indirectly) also cast suspicions toward.

I did it on my own accord out of a genuine concern and if you can't see that, then that's your problem.

I just want to say that my post where you thought I was talking to you was exactly what I said...suggestions. I would suggest those things for anyone...not rescuing anyone or telling anyone what to do, but just suggestions related to things I have seen and experienced to be helpful. I simply care about creatures, people, the planet...the list is long. That is where every single post I ever make comes from, and if one doesn't sound that way then I didn't make my point well. I agree there are many smaller pictures and then bigger ones, some things that are so important and some things not so much. My suggestions are never commands, just for the record. To each her own :)

[Gardener]

Maybe we are looking at the topic of this 'light trap' and the choices which seem to be present, in a little too much 3D perspective. Someone said 'we don't 'go' anywhere'; how can we 'go' anywhere where time isn't present there is no space in which to go. 'Go to' is 3D thinking, current identity based, we leave that behind probably when we 'give up the ghost' lol

No NDE's can accurately record what it is to fully transition, they are returning to their identity and there must be a way for the brain to encode the experience to explain to the mind what just happened, by its nature it seems to me to have a 3D overlay which is the only way we can make sense of it rationally on return.

Trust your beingness, that you will know unencumbered with a fading identity.

[we-R-one]

Sorry, weird, this double posted on me..see below

[we-R-one]

We-R-one,

Your personal experiences, including how you communicate with the "field" may be helpful to others who want to navigate what appears to me as being a multi-dimensional chess game.

We can learn from:

1. How other's interpret their experience.
2. How we interpret our personal experience.
3. Science.

Each of these are a cloudy mixture of truths mixed with distortions concerning the nature of our journey through what may be holographic realities.

I would not want to exclude any theories or interpretations as I put my reality puzzle together. But I'll choose the simpler versions to explore first.

Is there any personal experience you can share?

Thanks, Ron


My personal experiences will make more sense if you understand first how 'The Field' is set up and the language it speaks. Which is why I keep saying please watch the Divine Matrix video I posted, as Gregg does a beautiful job explaining in a simplistic manner. You might watch it a couple times, take notes if needed so you can reflect back on what he says for a reference. He does discuss the science behind its construction which is important. The video is long, but well worth it. You cannot just post a few sentences or even paragraphs to get the true meaning, you have to do the homework, you have to read and explore the topic. I need to do more of this myself.

Though most of my experiences have come naturally, had I not invested the time into reading and researching, the knowledge wouldn't have come full circle. Everybody wants a brief snippet myself included, but much of the message becomes lost and key pieces are missed if I were to take this approach. The point of introducing the science into this particular discussion involving Simon's comments was to eliminate a lot of the 'distortions' you speak of.

'The Field' is energy. Everything around you is energy. Your realities are created by the manipulation of energy, through the emotions of your heart not your brain. 'The Field' reads two emotions fear and love. This is how we are controlled. Fear shuts the brain down, ask any doctor. Look around your world...is it one of fear or one of love? Fear vibrates at a lower frequency. Love vibrates at a higher frequency.

When someone promotes beliefs of fear, they are having an effect on the energy fields and this is how you are controlled.

"Control the belief systems, control the energy fields." -we-R-one

During the times I'm reading 'The Field', I'm using my heart not my brain. When I had the kundalini, as described in "The Solutions" thread it was done within the heart. Somehow I just shut my brain off and the marriage of the thought and emotion of forgiveness came through my heart creating the kundalini. This was a form of manipulating energy. When I've been able to communicate with animals I've noticed I'm using my heart to hear them. It's difficult to explain until you've experienced it. I guess another way of saying it would be that your heart is like an intuitive guide you tap into..it's almost like you 'feel' the energy fields and the message comes within it, translating into words and pictures. You might find you've already experienced this at some point, but just didn't have the knowledge base to understand what you were doing or identify what was happening in those moments.

Sometimes communication with "The Field' happens spontaneously. So when I had the past life memories from a specific life time, the trigger was walking through a home that was a similar caliber as to where I had lived before. The memories started to rush in as a 'feeling'. One specific word came to me in that moment and it was Renaissance, the 'feeling' in my heart was I had something to do with the Renaissance period from the 1500's. Five years later when I had a past life reading done, the person doing the reading came up with the same word. I never told them about my experience 5 years prior so out of all the words in the English language he could have picked, he picked the same as me. He identified the Renaissance I was remembering during the 1500's, and said this incarnation will be my fourth. I originally thought I was actually remembering from my brain, but that experience taught me, I wasn't remembering from my brain, I was tapping into "The Field" for the information just like he was. So when they say the answer lies within "The Field", it's because all possibilities exist and can be tapped into when you talk and listen to 'The Field' in the right language. And no I'm not a pro at it by any means, I have much to practice, but I have a bit of a head start as the past experiences have helped my understanding, now that I have the vocabulary and knowledge base.

As I mentioned before, the hologram contains all possibilities. This is why what Simon is saying can be a possibility if that's what you want to believe. The hologram isn't a warm fuzzy feeling description to make excuses for someone(Calamus that's for you, saw your post in another thread ;) ), it's how the Universe is set up. The hologram reflects back what we put into it so that's why much effort is put into instilling fear. You slow down an individuals growth in spirituality, higher consciousness etc. all those game changers that would allow for a new reality of higher vibration to exist....in essence meaning, those in power loose control.

Definition:
Hologram- every fragment of the pattern reflects, mirrors, contains the entire pattern. Every fragment, no matter how small, is a reflection of the entire pattern. Within us the entire universe lives within us.. The entire universe lives within every cell within your body. Every fragment is a mirror of the whole.

Another way of stating it: In a holographic universe you have a pattern within the universe that is whole and complete unto itself, which is part of a greater pattern that is whole and complete unto itself, etc. If a change takes place within one of these patterns within the universe, there is a ripple effect and that change is mirrored throughout the rest of the so called holographic universe.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/universe-really-is-a-holo/

"The Field" is a tool being used against us in the form of fear. This is why we as individuals need to be more responsible about our actions and what we promote. There's a reason why the character "V" from "V for Vendetta" says to look in the mirror. What they don't tell you in the movie is the energetic implications of your actions they just say 'look in the mirror'. Some of the nicest people promote fear because they're still programmed or they're still in victimhood and they don't understand the ramification of their actions nor do they have the knowledge base to reference why their energetic responses are literally enslaving them.

"The Field" is also known as:
The Quantum Hologram
The Field
Natures Mind
The Mind of God
The Matrix
The Divine Matrix


...you can't cover this stuff in a few short words.

[greybeard]

It would seem that one of the concerns is reincarnation endlessly.
Being in bondage.
Every enlightened sage I have listened to is very clear on several relevant points.
You are not bound--you are free, you are enlightened but you do have to remove the obstacles to un--cover this.
When the true Self is realised there are no further incarnations.
They are very clear--no ifs --no maybe --no perhaps.

If non-duality is fully understood--there is no individual person- - no subject or object, the me and the other is a mental construct.
A mind projection, a thought but very real to the unenlightened.
There is pure awareness.

The mind can not get this--just not possible.
The sage has direct knowing--wordless--awareness.
"They" try to explain this as best they can.
They see every one as enlightened--they see no difference between teacher and taught.
The True Guru is remover of ignorance. (Ignorance is just lack of knowledge/knowing)

One way of looking a it is. There are many appliances with different functions but one electricity powering them all.
You are that electricity that power.
Appliances eventually loose their ability to perform but the electricity is unaffected.

Basically If I want to escape the illusory wheel of karma--birth, death, birth, then I listen to those who have realised their True Self.

Books like "I am That" by Nasargadatta or any book by Ramana Maharshi--the Western equivalents are Eckhart Tolle and Adyashanti cds, videos, books and quite a few others.

To be very clear there is only One soul and you are That.

That is One without a second.

That One looks through the eyes of trillions of seeming different beings.

Namaste means "I greet the God in you"

Chris

[donk]

I'll take a break from posting my viewpoints (but I'll be back).




You have already had one thread shut down ...

Why are you here???


http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/3d/c7/cc/3dc7cc20b76139b696d9968de1254538.jpg

Wow...so on a "truth" site, respectfully stating concerns about a whostleblower is somehow trolling a poster, while you can snarkily accuse a prominent poster of working for the dark side...

And of all people calz, I know you should know better than most that not everyone is exactly what they seem.

Calamus posted concerns that more people than just him actually have, that would be good for ANY truth site to pay attention, but apparently Avalon transcends all that just like Simon has apparently transcended the ability to decieve.

This is getting scary folks. Again, it's not about Simon, unfortunately he has nothing to do with it so can hardly do much about it...it's about the treatment he is getting.

This thread is about a belief that challenges a lot of peoples', it's really a discussion about the fear (denial) of death, which doesn't concern me really...but does a lot to a lot of people. To be able to a suggest the "dark side" is manipulating the white light but not being allowed to suggest the possibility that Simon is manipulating us (or being manipulated)** is hippocracy.

**i don't necessarily believe either of these, but believe that viewpoint should be allowed to be presented without baseless attacks, that it's important to discuss--maturely, hopefully

[Calz]

Wow...so on a "truth" site, respectfully stating concerns about a whostleblower is somehow trolling a poster, while you can snarkily accuse a prominent poster of working for the dark side...




Posted by Calamus

What could we do as a group if it became evident that he was lying to us here?
Instead of asking yourself, "what could we do if we find out," how about you just go and find out?

Post by Moderation



Calamus, if you have questions about the things that Simon is sharing, go to his threads, find out if the question has already been asked, and, if not, ask it yourself.

This thread is now closed.

From the guidelines:





1. TARGETING INDIVIDUALS

1. Posts should not be directed to any specific individuals such as Bill Ryan, Kerry Cassidy or any specific witness unless a discussion has already opened. We advise you to direct your comments, questions and concerns to the group, so anyone may answer you. This promotes community discussion rather than individual confrontation.

2. This also includes the family of Avalon members. If you have an issue with a member, please look for the REPORT button found below a members avatar next to their post.

3. Avatars that are offensive or in violation of the guidelines will be removed by the moderators.

4. Personal attacks on threads, where singling out a member(s) for purposes of negative or derogatory remarks is not permitted and will get your post/thread deleted and an infraction given to you which may deny you access to the forum.




http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?69137-Concern-about-Simon-Parkes&p=805386#post805386

_________________


Hey donk,

Did you see his thread that was shut down?

Don't you think that may have gone just a *weeee* bit beyond expressing his truth?

Interesting timing in that the thread was started after Simon suggested he would be gone for awhile (thus not able to respond for himself).

When most members have a thread shut down for violating policy the natural reaction might be to reflect and consider what just happened rather than to immediately move on to another Simon thread and carry on.

Yes???

Anyway ... I am not the one to speak for moderation.

... and where exactly was it I suggested "the dark side"?

I have the right to state my own truth and if I can do so with very few words and an image (as opposed to a thread that goes on and on) then so be it.

[donk]

Of course you can bro, no one would ever pull a post around here, you can say whatever you want about anything, right?

And as to your suggestion about reflecting upon thread closures: when authority shuts down discussion on something, my (apparently un-natural) reaction is to wonder what exactly their intent was in stopping a conversation on that subject, and making sure they are actually adhereing to their own policy

My apologies for the "dark side" comment, obviously you were vague enough to imply that he's being the "good guy" and you were no way suggesting he had I'll intent--sorry, I totally misunderstood and misrepresented your neutral comment there--you're totally hilarious graphic had me thinking Star Wars so it came out that way

And the purpose of your posts? I would think it would be to shut down conversation--who are you working for :confused:

I think that thread was getting emotionally charged, and understood it being locked. But I think putting it on calamus "targeting" is bad for a truth site--now maybe you can call it that for some of the more hostile later posts by other members, but my opinion is that calamus was bringing up valid concerns, more than just he had

you think I'm "working" for somebody? I wouldn't blame or attack you for having that thought or even for saying it...so why can't someone do it to a whistleblower on a truth site?).

[Hervé]

Rabble rousing (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/rabble-rousing)... isn't that some kind of rambling noise?

Ooohhh... Sh*t! I lied again:


[...]

AFAIC I quit adding to the noise that keeps burying the signal.

[Calz]

Of course you can bro ...



I'm sorry donk (and if Calamus is a fine outstanding member then perhaps I owe him an apology as well). Had to drop kiddies at school so it took me a bit to respond.

I post in very few threads these days and follow very few topics (Simon obviously being one).

If Calamus has made great contributions to the forum then I must have missed it due to focusing on such a narrow group of topics/threads.

I will make this as clear as possible.

From the OP in the Calamus thread that was shut down:


Posted by Calamus

(snip)


Posted by Simon

I wanted to apologise to you all
as one of the Mods knows there is a situation in Ukraine that is alien related - I am a little tied up with this ( as others are) at the present, but as soon as its decided that no war is to be fought I will be back on Avalon - thank you for your patience.

Simon

Now he's out on a secret mission, and will not return until him and others help prevent a war?

I'm going to come out and say it, because if I'm right, it just hurts to sit by and watch it, but I think he's lying about a lot of things.

I actually think he is lying about everything except maybe his alien abductions, which his might been of a subjective nature if he even had any.

(snip)

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?69137-Concern-about-Simon-Parkes


You make good points donk about freedom of self expression "truth as we know it" (as you always do).

I had (or have) no intent on shutting down anything such as that.

I didn't post in the closed thread but followed along with interest.

It wasn't until after the thread was shut and the "conversation" seemed (to me) to continue on unabated in another Simon thread.

That was the point I felt the need to post (and perhaps I had a bit of attitude by then).

As mentioned I certainly do not speak for moderation.

I certainly do not speak for Simon.

... yet ...

As Calamus clearly pointed out in his OP Simon wasn't around ... right?


Now ... when a man calls another man a liar to his face that is one thing.

When a man calls another man a liar behind his back is quite another.


That doesn't fly with me ... and after having an attitude built up that's why I posted what I did.


My own *opinion* is Simon is totally sincere in all he suggests. To what degree it is all *true* is a matter of interpretation.


A remarkable story and anything and everyone has every right to question it.


Not going to post again about it ... it's between moderation and Calamus.


Shoot me a PM if you feel you must donk.

:focus:

[we-R-one]

I'll take a break from posting my viewpoints (but I'll be back).




You have already had one thread shut down ...

Why are you here???


Wow...so on a "truth" site, respectfully stating concerns about a whostleblower is somehow trolling a poster, while you can snarkily accuse a prominent poster of working for the dark side...

And of all people calz, I know you should know better than most that not everyone is exactly what they seem.

Calamus posted concerns that more people than just him actually have, that would be good for ANY truth site to pay attention, but apparently Avalon transcends all that just like Simon has apparently transcended the ability to decieve.

This is getting scary folks. Again, it's not about Simon, unfortunately he has nothing to do with it so can hardly do much about it...it's about the treatment he is getting.

This thread is about a belief that challenges a lot of peoples', it's really a discussion about the fear (denial) of death, which doesn't concern me really...but does a lot to a lot of people. To be able to a suggest the "dark side" is manipulating the white light but not being allowed to suggest the possibility that Simon is manipulating us (or being manipulated)** is hippocracy.

**i don't necessarily believe either of these, but believe that viewpoint should be allowed to be presented without baseless attacks, that it's important to discuss--maturely, hopefully

I have to admit I was going to ask the same thing Donk. So a person can be protected from tough questioning all under the guise of being a forum member? Wait what????

If anyone has followed my past posts, I've been subjected to the same treatment, which is why I don't post anymore, what's the point? If people are going to thrust themselves into the spotlight to the extent that Simon and others have, they have to be expected to be scrutinized. Simon is in legal terms a 'public figure' as are many others who come on to Avalon or discuss their knowledge throughout the alternative circuit. It's healthy behavior that someone would want to question, that's what an intelligent person does! Kinda funny how what's happening here is a reflection of what's going on in the bigger world. Perfect example of living in a hologram for those that might be new to that concept. I would ask if Avalon is about truth and exploring 'where no man dare to go', that they allow for robust discussion of individuals who want us to believe their stories or whatever it is they're promoting. Vetting is a natural process, even more so in today's climate, you can't afford not to. I think it can be done with respect. Maybe Calamus went a bit overboard with so many questions all at once, but that could have been easily addressed.

People are really sick and tired of getting lied to....the caliber of the poster Avalon attracts is going to ask hard questions, Why? Cause they're tired of playing the 'Simon Says' game. This is higher consciousness in the making...

[Flash]

Anyhow, the discussions on this present thread have changed from all involved, many members, to being led by and around at the most 3 members, if not in fact. just around 2 members. Wonder why?

It WAS a nice thread.

[we-R-one]

It would seem that one of the concerns is reincarnation endlessly.
Being in bondage.
Every enlightened sage I have listened to is very clear on several relevant points.
You are not bound--you are free, you are enlightened but you do have to remove the obstacles to un--cover this.
When the true Self is realised there are no further incarnations.
They are very clear--no ifs --no maybe --no perhaps.

If non-duality is fully understood--there is no individual person- - no subject or object, the me and the other is a mental construct.
A mind projection, a thought but very real to the unenlightened.
There is pure awareness.

The mind can not get this--just not possible.
The sage has direct knowing--wordless--awareness.
"They" try to explain this as best they can.
They see every one as enlightened--they see no difference between teacher and taught.
The True Guru is remover of ignorance. (Ignorance is just lack of knowledge/knowing)

One way of looking a it is. There are many appliances with different functions but one electricity powering them all.
You are that electricity that power.
Appliances eventually loose their ability to perform but the electricity is unaffected.

Basically If I want to escape the illusory wheel of karma--birth, death, birth, then I listen to those who have realised their True Self.

Books like "I am That" by Nasargadatta or any book by Ramana Maharshi--the Western equivalents are Eckhart Tolle and Adyashanti cds, videos, books and quite a few others.

To be very clear there is only One soul and you are That.

That is One without a second.

That One looks through the eyes of trillions of seeming different beings.

Namaste means "I greet the God in you"

Chris

Chris I'm so glad you brought up reincarnation. I wanted to add this in my post but it was already long enough. There is a science to it if you do it right. I went to a reincarnation research institute for help in my own case, not some psychic at the beach, so I feel I can speak with credence as the basis of my experience was aided by men with a combined sum of approximately 120+ years in the field. So the premise of the process was discovered by the works of Edgar Cayce, Ian Stevenson, Walter Semkiw and Kevin Ryerson, all big names in the industry, so these guys aren't screwing around.

I was a well documented person so this made it easy. You look for objectives. Objectives are names, dates, situations, quotes anything that might match to the person who you were. You begin to see a pattern. It becomes more believable when it happens to you, because you can't believe how many things start to match. What's even more convincing is when you start figuring out the people around you are matching in the same manner. Then you ask what are the odds if there isn't something to this???

The point being is you see intelligent design and the question I would ask, is why would so much effort be put into lining everything up to be 'just so' if the Archon's don't care about us? Why was I born into the same bloodline from that time period as this time period? Why are names matching, why are similar situations happening to me in this lifetime that happened in that lifetime? You see it just doesn't add up to me that they want to claim they have the control they do. So are we now to believe that they can control consciousness? Wait....wasn't it David Icke that said, "they can control your mind, they can control your body, but they can't control consciousness!" So who are we to believe? These are the questions I'm asking and so should everyone else.

EDIT TO ADD: And it's not just me, they have matched several people in the same manner, so the odds of the possibility of it being accurate go even higher reinforcing that there's intelligent design.

[we-R-one]

Anyhow, the discussions on this present thread have changed from all involved, many members, to being led by and around at the most 3 members, if not in fact. just around 2 members. Wonder why?

It WAS a nice thread.

Seriously Flash? A forum is for discussion, anyone can participate. Personally I thought Calz post was obnoxious myself and unnecessary. Is there some hidden trap that's only allowing two members to post that we don't know about?

[AngelArmy]

Has my thread been closed :(

[AngelArmy]

Robert Morning Sky sheds light on this in his old video:
RqsMTLPS4fg

He shares what the Star Elder told his grandfather about the history of the Earth. How there were these "light chambers" that humans were forced to go into to wipe out their memories. Btw Cobra talks about light chambers, too that everyone will be forced to go through after the Event. These chambers are where we get "going into the light" and losing our memories from.... He's saying that when you die to turn away from this light because that's what has been trapping humanity in a neverending cycle of reincarnation. He said to turn away from it and look at the OTHER light because that would be your OWN light. People want to call him an antichrist for this comment, but it makes sense if you think about it....

Great post thanks :)

[AngelArmy]

Quite some reactions already, so forgive me if the question has already been asked but: can we escape the light? Even if knowing.

We can all know this information now and plan in our heads that when we die we're not to go towards any bright light, but when I look at earth,...How shall I say it? Apparently the light is very attractive...On earth experience has shown that is very difficult to not go to attractive "things"...You know?

what worries me is if we dont go into the light - surely we are left in the darkness


LOL!
I tought the same, hahaha..
Could we bring a flashlight? or maybe a dog?

Think theres definitely an application form for it lol :)

[Synchronicity]

Well, I guess I can comment here appropriately since this thread is a more general discussion of the topic. We-R-one, you talked about reincarnation, and once again I can't offer "experts" (there are actually many experts who wouldn't be acceptable by mainstream science's definition, but I won't mention them) or assure you that I am getting it right, but I see people at least weekly who, when I do energy work with them, definitely know things they shouldn't from this one life and carry energy and issues from the time I see when I am working. I know from my own experience that there are things I have healed from after discovering where that fear or whatever the issue was really came from, and that was another time, another "me", and an intense experience that left the energy imprint on me deeply enough to bring it into this life to deal with.

I have worked with many people who (without any input on content) remember, observe, and learn where stubborn issues come from and begin to heal at last, and whatever mainstream science says or how it is explained scientifically, I see it with my eyes, I feel the situations, and I see lives changed. I haven't read deeply a lot of experts in many metaphysical fields, and that is for a reason. I find that what I personally do (allowing the energy to flow through me, not any amazingness of my own) is most profound and helpful when I'm not analyzing what this is that energy was or which healer came in to help the person. I approach it from a different standpoint than some do and I am fine that that since there is a need for science and a need for intuition and energy work (which isn't anti-science, by the way, I would say in general). I used to be a person who needed to explain, categorize, and analyze everything, but then so many things happened that I realized I couldn't and that it still worked for people whether I did have everything in neat boxes or not. I personally find that the more I rely on "experts" to analyze these type of topics for me the less pure energy work results, so I analyze some things and let the rest flow as they do.

No, I'm not telling anyone else to think that way and I see what I do as scientific in that it follows natural law, but I think it is lovely that we all approach topics differently, yet have input that can enhance the bigger picture. Maybe it could help someone along the way. I'm not sure with these topics where opinion is rife and people see things from their own perspective, much can't be proven conclusively, and it's a discussion on a forum, how one would really know if anyone is lying anyway about going to light or not going to light. Who is truly an absolute expert on that anyway in any mainstream scientific way?

I'll do my thing the same way whoever is telling the truth or lying, or maybe just misinformed, and it's interesting to see all the points of view. I'm glad you brought the reincarnation up again, we-R-one. I wasn't aiming my post just at you except when I mentioned you specifically, by the way.

[we-R-one]

I'll do my thing the same way whoever is telling the truth or lying, or maybe just misinformed, and it's interesting to see all the points of view. I'm glad you brought the reincarnation up again, we-R-one. I wasn't aiming my post just at you except when I mentioned you specifically, by the way.

What you're offering Synchronicity is personal information which is equally as valuable as supposed experts in the field. For me, the more this happens the more we can find the answers. When you can combine the two it's even better and that's why I shared what I shared, because that experience isn't always available. It's not to say that someone who's only worked in the field for a few years doesn't have significant input too. By sharing my story I'm trying to show people how you look within for the answers to help aid you in making difficult decisions. I'm finding answers by doing this and if I can do it so can you, that's the point.

In case someone missed it, the reason reincarnation is important, is because if we're suppose to believe our souls are being captured I want to know why there's so much intelligent design behind who I was and who I am now....something doesn't add up. If I wouldn't have shared my story, or how reincarnation works and where I learned how it works, you wouldn't understand why I'm asking the questions that I am or how I know what I know. I like hearing personal stories...for me, I'm looking for patterns and it's helpful when people share as it aids in understanding topics that aren't widely discussed. Beautiful post Synchronicity, THANK you for sharing.



*I have to say on a side note I find it really ironic that people say they want to know the truth and then as soon as someone posts scientific information that shows the truth and personal stories that align with the science, suddenly we're told by a forum member:

"Anyhow, the discussions on this present thread have changed from all involved, many members, to being led by and around at the most 3 members, if not in fact. just around 2 members. Wonder why? It WAS a nice thread. "

I can't help if others don't have anything to say. I don't comment on a lot of threads...why? Because I DON'T KNOW THE TOPIC. If I have something to offer I share, if I don't, I keep my mouth shut, observe and learn, that's the beauty! Are you guys for the truth or not? Or are you for promoting some fantasy that might not have merit, all because someone is a 'nice man'? or are you willing to look at all legitimate evidence? Just sayin.....

[Flash]

Has my thread been closed :(

No, we just unknowingly changed OP ;)

[Christine]

I am going to do my best to guide this thread back to the subject at hand…

WE are really trying to share our experiences, our data, the science and the different philosophies. In addition we have the responsibility to reply respectfully to members concerns and fears along with the responsibility to respect those who are so willing to expose themselves to us.

First: I wish to establish the reality that none of us has the answer for another nor even the complete answer for ourself.

Second: Some of us have more experiential data on how the matrix operates but that doesn't mean we are authorities.

Third: Generalizations are always divisive and do not help.

Fourth: Further condescending and provocative comments just keep this thread rolling in the wrong direction.

Fifth: The thread WAS about sharing differing experiences and offerings to understand what happens when we leave this mortal coil. :focus:

Sixth: NO ONE has all the answers or is acting as "teacher", the best chance we have to comprehend the matrix of infinity is via sharing our perceptions thorough compassionate understanding.

Seventh: My suggestion is that while it was what Simon said that started this thread, we can thank him and continue to help each other comprehend what reality exists when with one dies, this theme is most important to further our sovereignty.

[Bill Ryan]

[Mod hat on]

@ we-R-one:

Welcome back to the forum! But after an absence of over 6 months, you've now posted 24 times in three and a half days on this one thread:


4 March: 6 posts
5 March: 5 posts
6 March (yesterday): 7 posts
7 March (today): 6 posts so far before lunch... with every reason to believe you're drafting another right now, with another half dozen planned. Or maybe a dozen! :)

You're starting to grab and hold onto the microphone, pretty much taking over the energy of the thread that had every initial indicator of being an interesting, balanced discussion of an important topic that's rarely discussed.

Balance, okay? This is not just about your own ideas.

[christian]

If people are going to thrust themselves into the spotlight to the extent that Simon and others have, they have to be expected to be scrutinized. Simon is in legal terms a 'public figure' as are many others who come on to Avalon or discuss their knowledge throughout the alternative circuit.

Everyone on the forum is a public figure to some degree, as this is an open and public space. Scrutinizing is fine and an intelligent thing to do, just as you say, but it shouldn't be a witch-hunt. How would you feel if I started a thread called: "What if we-R-one is the devil incarnate?" I could argue that I'm just putting a question out there and scrutinize you...

The whole question of whether or not going into the light is the right thing to do is of course very controversial. Simon has been asked for his point of view and so he shared it, he isn't zealously proselytizing. This should be appreciated simply for the fact that he's willing to share and communicate, whether one agrees or disagrees with him. One can always chime in with, "Thank you—I, however, see or experience it this way."

We all share our experiences, perceptions, and opinions. It's perfectly fine to questions those of others and share one's own to put things in perspective. This being done in mutual appreciation for making an effort to hone discernment in a group communication is one thing—calling others pathological liars, especially over an issue that is not very tangible and therefore highly subjective, is another.


To be able to a suggest the "dark side" is manipulating the white light but not being allowed to suggest the possibility that Simon is manipulating us (or being manipulated)** is hippocracy.

You're making a perfectly logical point. It's just that there is no use in pounding on that, this doesn't carry the conversation anywhere. Repeating this insinuation over and over is just a means to stifle the conversation altogether and shout someone down. This will not be tolerated.

Everybody is allowed to express his or her views, just do it with courtesy and in moderation. This is how Simon conducts himself. I don't see him hijacking every thread about dying with what he suspects about the white light, repeating himself over and over and calling others who disagree liars.

[Calz]

My bad for derailing this thread.

I am very sorry.

Actually it was one of the most interesting and important topics Simon raised.

I guess one downside from closing threads is sometimes there is carryover of "unfinished business" into others. I should have posted my feelings there prior to the thread being closed.

As for being "obnoxious" ... a couple things.

1) Check out Jake's appended post on the end of the closed thread ... yeah what he said ... only I cannot go that far.

2) The most "angry" post I have ever witnessed from Bill was when a member was posting about "calibrated" (physical kinesthetic type) measures of "truth" about some of the interviewees from the original Camelot. The member suggested one (or several) of the whistle blowers were lying simply based on his own trust in that assessment of measuring the "truth". At least one of which Bill knew very well personally.


I don't know Simon personally ... but you get the idea.

At least a couple other members do.


On a side note ... if all members resided in the usa there could be libel legal issues as well.


Again ... please ... back to topic.

My bad ... I surrender

:yield:

[Christine]

So lets explore the Matrix.. (I have seen the Gregg Braden videos) and as the way synchronicity works I had started viewing them prior to reading about his work on this thread. I do highly recommend them as he clearly demonstrates how science has unveiled the matrix and we are indeed co-creators of our reality.

This was posted elsewhere, I found it very valuable, as indeed delving into and understanding quantum science has been an enormous help in "penetrating" the flux of reality.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD4YKbkfp_0

Why I say co-creator should be obvious, as my "creation" can be in or out of resonance with another beings "creation". We are not one, we are part of a sea of awareness and sharing consciousness. Do we count, you bet! Do we influence reality, you bet! Are we sole creators.. here I will say no. This is why I put the highest challenge before us is to seek harmony. My awareness must include yours as I stretch toward greater wholeness. This isn't to say I agree with you only that I can reach deep enough inside to find the well of compassion that helps me understand you.

Okay, that said what about when we leave this "body"? What are we leaving? What is the body? Who are we without a body? Do we ever leave the body? Or do we leave the current presentation of a body? As I posted earlier on this thread it is how we live this life that we have right now that will lead us to the decision we make at our body's death (recycling?). So many questions…

My experiential data, that which I have recalled in a variety of manner including spontaneous recall, tells me that there are many traps on leaving this level of physicality.

What do we mean by a trap? In a very real way our lack of knowledge and experience allows us to follow the strongest light, force or suggestion. If we don't now where it is coming from we are easily led. We need to reclaim our FULL consciousness and then only then will we be able to determine the course of our own experience.

What is suggested to me is this… we need each other for that. We need to hear each other and learn from each other. We need to develop kindness and compassion, we need to learn to speak our truth without creating right or wrong paradigms.. we are indeed challenged to our very core to find the serenity of Beingness.. And to those who have more knowingness a greater responsibility to guide falls on your shoulders.

My two cents and a nickel thrown in.

[Synchronicity]

My personal experience is that the core of who the person is...not the mental illness, bad attitudes, childhood trauma issues, physical issues, or even necessarily the nasty deeds...stays pretty similar throughout lives. The differences come when healing happens over lives, but that energy...that unique energy that can still be recognized in a different time...is the same. Many of us have experienced meeting a new person and totally recognizing the person's energy. We may not realize that is what we recognize, but that "something" is often the energy we knew before in a different context. It's pretty interesting to consider.

[Freed Fox]

I'd like to share some food for thought on this issue, to perhaps offer a few different angles on this theory. I personally do not stand on one side or the other on this issue. I think it's fairly self evident that no one can pin down THE definitive answer, as it is beyond our experiential reality while in our present physical domain (the rare exceptions being NDEs and other spiritual experiences, but when the nature/origin of even those come into question, the waters are all the more muddied).

As a semi-related aside, my question to Simon on this issue was not that I regard him to hold the absolute or complete truth, but rather that I find some interest in his perspective, merely as a consideration and leaving aside whether or not it is factual, skewed, or what-have-you.

There are two fairly prevalent, esoteric alternative views of life here on Earth; that of a school and that of a prison. I would offer that the idea of a 'white light trap' of reincarnation can actually fit into both of these models in a surprisingly benevolent sense.

Say this is a school. In such a case, the light might be seen as a 'final exam' of sorts, or perhaps an entrance exam to the next stage of development. If the soul still has lessons to learn here, he or she is sent back to repeat the grade (or 'move up' incrementally albeit within this same school).

As for the 'prison' model, it is often conveyed in a negative light, with the implicit or explicit notion that we are undeserving victims. However, I find no substantial reason to believe that a higher-dimensional/otherworldly prison would necessarily fall to our inadequate standards and practices involving prison. That is, here on Earth, people are often unjustly incarcerated, or otherwise convicted for silly and ultimately victim-less crimes. Further still, prisons here (at least in my country) are more geared toward retribution and profit margins, rather than rehabilitation. In my mind, it should always be for the sake of rehabilitation, and if one appears incapable of such in their current lifetime, they simply remain incarcerated for the remainder.

I understand the frustration that may come from the idea of being seemingly persecuted for crimes which can't be remembered. Essentially, I have no easy answer for that other than the notion that something of our higher nature and/or past-life experiences would either interfere with rehabilitation, or otherwise make the task somehow too easy. If something is hard won, it is longer lasting, or more genuine perhaps.

Amzer-Zo brought up an interesting point regarding thousands of years of seemingly very little, or no progress at all; chasing our own proverbial tails. However, this only points to a dominant and indiscriminate system of 'recycling' if there are no fresh souls entering this domain, and simultaneously none are being allowed to leave/progress. I see no reason to believe that is necessarily the case. The explanations offered above would, I think, sufficiently explain this apparent lack of progress here; the planet is filled with individuals learning hard lessons, and all placed in situations to capitalize on what is needed to learn. The turbulence and tribulation may serve that higher purpose, essentially outside of our grasping.

In our history, we've had at least a handful or more of truly admirable figures; TRUE spiritual gurus, revolutionary yet compassionate leaders, and civil rights heroes. Yet, in virtually each case the individuals in question were in their later years and were not without their own faults or indiscretions in their past. It could be that in each case, these individuals were on their last run through this school/prison, and having overcome their major faults and/or evolving spiritually, they were able to share the fruits of their labor before going on their way.

Jeffrey recently started a thread worth checking out, if anyone here has yet to do so: Process of COSMS (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?69061-Process-of-COSMS-.-.-From-the-Intercellular-to-the-Interstellar). In the case that his theorizing is correct, the 'white light trap' may be a function of the so-called 'quarantine', keeping us here until we have rectified the deficiency within ourselves, such that we do not spread the contagion that afflicts us here in any way, to anywhere that might be susceptible to it.

Just my thoughts for the time being, for your consideration. Thanks everybody for the contributions, thoughts, and experiences shared here.

Be well.

[Sebastion]

Robert Morningsky is right, pay no attention to the light "outside" of you. If you have done your own spiritual homework, you will "follow" your own. You will know where you are going on your own because you will have accepted complete responsibility for yourself and claimed sovereignty for yourself. You will find your way to the godhead if that is your purest intent.

There is no question that the way is frought with perils. There are things out there that will scare the living bejesus out of you. I have heard it said that the worst thing you will ever have to face is that of your own creation. For the most part, I would agree. Sometimes I wonder how I ever created some of the things I had to face on the way. I woke up a few times in the middle of the night lying in a sweat soaked bed and pillow as a result of some of the things I had to overcome. Sheer terror, yep had a number of episodes to that effect but it was worth it all in the end, and then some.

You must decide to take full responsibility for yourself. You must develop your intuitive and listen to the spirit that is you. You have to trust yourself. I have heard it said that spirit trusts you as much as you trust it. Methinks there is much truth to that if not the pure truth. Trust in the spirit that YOU are completely for you will come to rely on it heavily. It is your guidepost. In learning to trust spirit, you will develop the "language" to communicate as a matter of course. Those conversations with your truest self will be for you and you alone. Taking full responsibility and claiming sovereignty for yourself is not an easy task, but it's mandatory. Your intent must be pure and your will, all encompassing.

One must be willing to give it all up, surrendering all of it to spirit. There are no worries as you will get it all back, lol. But then, you will "know". The spirit that you are will lead you every step of the way and it will be up to you to choose and make the right choices. You WILL learn, there is no question, lol.

[Realeyes]

I keep taking too long to write a post (off line) and then seeing how different this discussion has turned. so delete post. That's happened 3 days on the trot now for many reasons....... I am all for people expressing and questioning.....

its the tone of delivery that well......

Side note: I do not mean to be boring..... this is a 'public thread' - and what is written on Simon's thread by himself and other participating members together decided they wanted to keep that thread for 'PA members only' - i.e. not visible to the 'public'. So I am wondering why quotes from a 'members only thread' are being quoted in a 'public thread'? Has common respect for another's choice/decision (their free will) gone out the window under the guise of scrutinizing?

We-R-one it is lovely to have you back on PA, I know you have a talent in researching and I have in the past respected your contributions; yet I am not particularly keen on your chosen method of delivery in this particular case, there are other ways of effectively communicating your message without it 'needing' to slam a particular person or a whole group of members and doubting their cognisant conscious awareness abilities. It makes me wonder who are you to judge so?

I think I get your message, you want to remind us of the Source Field (in case we forget) and to be 'Mindful' of what we put out into the Source Field. Are you aware that your first post included the word 'fear' 9 times, and 15 times in another post? Did you Notice then how the energy changed and also how the insightful sharing discussions stopped - mmmmmm....

[johnf]

This whole subject, and discussion fades in importance if the reader
has a practice whereby they can view their own creations within themselves, and
speed up the process.
Sometimes seeking others theories about what is going on with oneself can put
new hurdles in front of me in my journey.
Maybe this sort of thing can happen shortly after the body falls away, perhaps not
but the best plan is probably to find ways to let go now so that when the body lets go of us we don't feel any need for any immediate new answers.
That need, that grasping, I believe is what can turn any experience of lights into an implant.

Here is the simplest introduction to such practices I have found.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcfcnCa9hps

Looking, in the fullest sense of the word can greatly increase the chances that we will not rush or try to stop whatever process is arising in our life, after it, or in between lives.

There are other processes and processing systems discussed elsewhere in this forum
Truman Cash's thread is one of a type that takes on the rougher subjects if you feel so inclined to explore that type of processing.

The big question in all these approaches for me has been, am I putting something there in my way?
Or am I allowing what is already there to fall away?

JohnF

[seeker/reader]

I keep taking too long to write a post (off line) and then seeing how different this discussion has turned. so delete post. That's happened 3 days on the trot now for many reasons....... I am all for people expressing and questioning.....

its the tone of delivery that well......

Side note: I do not mean to be boring..... this is a 'public thread' - and what is written on Simon's thread by himself and other participating members together decided they wanted to keep that thread for 'PA members only' - i.e. not visible to the 'public'. So I am wondering why quotes from a 'members only thread' are being quoted in a 'public thread'? Has common respect for another's choice/decision (their free will) gone out the window under the guise of scrutinizing?

We-R-one it is lovely to have you back on PA, I know you have a talent in researching and I have in the past respected your contributions; yet I am not particularly keen on your chosen method of delivery in this particular case, there are other ways of effectively communicating your message without it 'needing' to slam a particular person or a whole group of members and doubting their cognisant conscious awareness abilities. It makes me wonder who are you to judge so?

I think I get your message, you want to remind us of the Source Field (in case we forget) and to be 'Mindful' of what we put out into the Source Field. Are you aware that your first post included the word 'fear' 9 times, and 15 times in another post? Did you Notice then how the energy changed and also how the insightful sharing discussions stopped - mmmmmm....

I had not thought of the private vs. public aspect of the threads. I have quoted Simon's answers to peoples' questions in my posts regarding his info about the light trap. I intended no harm. Mods please delete whatever you feel necessary. I have flagged it for their action.

[Hervé]

[...]

Amzer-Zo brought up an interesting point regarding thousands of years of seemingly very little, or no progress at all; chasing our own proverbial tails. However, this only points to a dominant and indiscriminate system of 'recycling' if there are no fresh souls entering this domain, and simultaneously none are being allowed to leave/progress. I see no reason to believe that is necessarily the case.

[...]

Here is the sum-up of the recent planeto-political history of this solar system as gathered by L. Ron Hubbard from the recollections of 100s if not 1000s of individuals in alleviating some of their past traumas:


[...]

THE ROLE OF THE EARTH
November 1952
[excerpts, fair use]

[...]

The space stations exist out here in the solar system. They use the asteroids. It's a very peculiar system. This solar system has a broken up planet -- the asteroid belt. It gives a low-gravity platform for take off and so on, and that broken planet is of considerable interest as a space station -- that is to say, as a galactic jump [spring board].

Now, there aren't any planets up at this end of the galaxy which form a good galactic entering spot for incoming transport and other ships. But this beautiful, broken up planet here with a light-gravity sun and moon, makes a very ideal spot. And as a result, this area of the solar system got into prominence. It got into a little bit of prominence, and it's slightly a house of contention.

The 4th Invader Force (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?64641-Is-the-white-light-after-we-die-a-trap&p=755778&viewfull=1#post755778) was there. The 5th Invader Force (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30323-Simon-Parkes-about-Mantis-Aliens-Reptiles-and-other-aliens.&p=763199&viewfull=1#post763199) came in to use this area - and the name of this solar system isSpace Station 33.

They started to use this area without suspecting that the 4th Invader Force had been there for God knows how many skillion years, had been sitting down -- and they have their installations up on Mars, and they have a tremendous, screened operation. It has gone into 100% holding force. And it does everything it does with tremendous coversion. It's sitting behind a defense screen of enormous size, and nobody -- it's practically impossible to penetrate that except as a thetan (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/thetan). And if you penetrate it as a thetan (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/thetan), you go through the Martian Screen, and they got you!

[...]

The 5th Invader Force all of a sudden started to lose crews and they didn't know where they were going. And they got a little more upset about it and a little more upset and a little more upset about it. And a battalion was sent down here to Earth 8200 years ago - [B]The 3rd Battalion. They came down in the Himalayas - the upper head lands, up about, oh, I'd say 72 miles NW of Khyber Pass - and put a base there, and still not believing that there was anything like an Invader Force operating in this system, failed to take any vaguest precautions with regard to their installations. They put up no defenses; after all, what was here? Nothing but Homo sapiens. That was just nothing, no danger, no menace, and so on.

And they were in this installation just for a very short time when all of a sudden, with a terrific crash, the 4th Invader Force -- which was a little more active then than it has become since -- knocked out this whole battalion (3,000 beings) and picked up all of its staff, all of its staff officers and so forth, and took them through to Mars and then knocked them back into this human race here. They are still here. There are saucer crews here; there are all sorts of things on Earth here from the 5th Invader Force. Very interesting.

And the 5th Invader Force, out of its own protection, took over Venus -- oh, relatively in modern times -- took over Venus and tried to stabilize the Venusians. If you called a 5th Invader, though, a Venusian, he would probably shoot you out of hand, because it would be a horrible insult. They merely monitor the government of Venus, and they leave Mars strictly alone.

Now, this is really, roughly, a rundown of the "political" situation in the solar system. Now, that's very interesting, because it gives you, as preclears (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/preclear#English), bodies in pawns (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59041-LRH--L.-Ron-Hubbard-&p=673114&viewfull=1#post673114) of the 4th Invader Force. It gives you tremendous amount of personnel that have been poured down here for various nefarious purposes, all of them under some kind of a covert direction [implanted orders]. Typical game: Every goal they've gotten, they have a reason why they can't reach the goal, see? I mean typical game sort of an implant these people are operating on. They're relatively inefficient but, boy, can they hold onto things! Do they accumulate MEST [materialism] and that sort of thing! You've got your big holding operations. And you've got running through this a 5th Invader Force operation which is strictly, really, disinterested in Earth at all, as such, because Earth is a heavy-gravity planet, and who the hell wants a heavy-gravity planet?

Earth has been consistently used as a prison; and it's a prison, and it is heavily screened. There are installations in Mongolia, there are installations in the Pyrénées here on Earth, and there are installations down in the Mountains of the Moon (Central Africa between Uganda and Zaire) which pick up, very often, people on death. And the [being] just doesn't know what is going on.

He's in a state of deep hypnosis, really, and the moment he finds himself in association with a dead body, the thing keys in [triggers] and he reports to where he's supposed to go. And he's changed and moved around here and there and comes back down.

Really, from death back to assumption of a new body and so on, is ordinarily a time period of 15 minutes and he as 3 engrams in those 15 minutes: 1) Death 2) The [memory] wipe-out and implants between lives 3) the assumption - knocking out the GE [Genetic Entity (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-Ron-s-Org-Planet-Earth.-Jim-and-the-Future&p=685583&viewfull=1#post685583)] and taking over a body at birth.

[Hervé]

Robert Morningsky is right, pay no attention to the light "outside" of you. If you have done your own spiritual homework, you will "follow" your own. You will know where you are going on your own because you will have accepted complete responsibility for yourself and claimed sovereignty for yourself. You will find your way to the godhead if that is your purest intent.

[...]

Yep! Sure...

... well, except in the case when that "guiding" light/hunch/gut feeling is a death-trigerred post life hypnotic suggestion to report directly back to implant station # 13...

Hence, I totally agree that one better ascertains one's sovereignty in all the nooks and cranies of one's being :)

[johnf]

A beings greatest asset is also it's liability, and that is it's ability to create, or in Hubbards own words to mock up.
So cultivating the calm in the face of an event of being unmocked, such as death is, can undercut the compulsion to mock up.
This is the real threat, and it is an internal one, so one might want to find these things out for oneself, recover ones own story first instead of looking for others to give them their story.
The R6 materials have been critcized by many as being evaluative, which contradicts the auditors code, as do many of
the practices taught by the C of S.
But since they are out there a person who hasn't looked at them, can wait till after they can blow a lot of that stuff on inspection before reading about it.
Just another example how someone can become their own worst enemy, or to use another phrase, create a games condition.

JohnF

[we-R-one]

[Mod hat on]

@ we-R-one:

Welcome back to the forum! But after an absence of over 6 months, you've now posted 24 times in three and a half days on this one thread:


4 March: 6 posts
5 March: 5 posts
6 March (yesterday): 7 posts
7 March (today): 6 posts so far before lunch... with every reason to believe you're drafting another right now, with another half dozen planned. Or maybe a dozen! :)

You're starting to grab and hold onto the microphone, pretty much taking over the energy of the thread that had every initial indicator of being an interesting, balanced discussion of an important topic that's rarely discussed.

Balance, okay? This is not just about your own ideas.

Dear Bill,
I didn't know we had a posting limit on the forum. The forum is for discussing is it not? Many of my posts were answering other members questions. Some didn't bother to read what I wrote the first time I answered and had to re-ask the same question. To try and make it like I'm controlling the mic makes no sense. Am I suppose to ignore their remarks and questions? I never stopped anyone from coming on here to discuss their ideas and to imply otherwise is...can we say is "tilting at windmills". I think I bring a knowledge base to the forum that is helpful to many which is no different than anyone else. There are plenty of people on here that over-take threads far more than I do. I have no intention of being anyone's teacher and I was very clear about the 'create your own reality' concept which puts each of us in the drivers seat. Apparently many were interested as this thread has appeared to climb in viewing numbers. There was no 'witch hunting' in my efforts. I actually said Simon was right if that's what he believes. I won't bothering answering anyone else's comments as I don't want to be penalized for participating in a 'discussion forum" that clearly isn't meant to be for all. Please unsubscribe me as I no longer wish to be a member.

[Flash]

[Mod hat on]

@ we-R-one:

Welcome back to the forum! But after an absence of over 6 months, you've now posted 24 times in three and a half days on this one thread:


4 March: 6 posts
5 March: 5 posts
6 March (yesterday): 7 posts
7 March (today): 6 posts so far before lunch... with every reason to believe you're drafting another right now, with another half dozen planned. Or maybe a dozen! :)

You're starting to grab and hold onto the microphone, pretty much taking over the energy of the thread that had every initial indicator of being an interesting, balanced discussion of an important topic that's rarely discussed.

Balance, okay? This is not just about your own ideas.

Dear Bill,
I didn't know we had a posting limit on the forum. The forum is for discussing is it not? Many of my posts were answering other members questions. Some didn't bother to read what I wrote the first time I answered and had to re-ask the same question. To try and make it like I'm controlling the mic makes no sense. Am I suppose to ignore their remarks and questions? I never stopped anyone from coming on here to discuss their ideas and to imply otherwise is...can we say is "tilting at windmills". I think I bring a knowledge base to the forum that is helpful to many which is no different than anyone else. There are plenty of people on here that over-take threads far more than I do. I have no intention of being anyone's teacher and I was very clear about the 'create your own reality' concept which puts each of us in the drivers seat. Apparently many were interested as this thread has appeared to climb in viewing numbers. There was no 'witch hunting' in my efforts. I actually said Simon was right if that's what he believes. I won't bothering answering anyone else's comments as I don't want to be penalized for participating in a 'discussion forum" that clearly isn't meant to be for all. Please unsubscribe me as I no longer wish to be a member.

You have guts. Even if you unsubscribe, i will write this: you are pushing down our throat your beliefs, and your belief system, and telling us we do not understand a thing, while we have been reading/listening to Braden forever and also to many other sources, a good 20 + years than you.

Then you keep pushing and pushing rehashing things you already told. If we, well I did, address you directly and take your posts and decompose them, showing some false reasoning at times (not all, but some) you just ignore it, no answer whatsoever and keep rehashing the same..

A discussion exist when all are in it, not when it is only one answering to all others with the same circling arguments all over again.

Should, would, could, should have listened to the video, and "written" sighs of yours showing in writing your impatience for us, the unworthy crows who cannot understand, as you wrote albeit in other words, those are all based on judgments of others.

The perfect art of bringing negativity while trying to look as an angel

you may mention the better higher truths at time, but they just do not seem to be digested throughout your being.

You did judgment of others, you get judgment. You created your own reality, you are aware of this right?

Bill's post has nothing to do with not allowing participation. It has to do with wanting to be the center of attention at any price Under the guise of discussion.

You were rather trying to create other's reality by driving every seat for those not in accordance with the field, in your views.

My opinion and I may be wrong, but yet, my opinion.

Ps: spiritual ego does exist too.

---------

This passion of yours could be turned around for the good, you would make an excellent awakener. But for this, revision of your ego and your true intentions, the inner unsuspected ones, "shoud" lol, be undertaken.

----------------

And when it is not your way, you quit? well, humility and self analysis is not your forte it seems, it is the others that are wrong, right?

[Sunny-side-up]

This all started so far back now!
I think we have all learned (Learning) a great deal from this subject, it has been very worthwhile indeed!

post1370
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30323-Simon-Parkes-about-Mantis-Aliens-Reptiles-and-other-aliens.&p=764109&viewfull=1#post764109

It is a deep subject and has raised much emotional energies!

we-R-one I have always had great respect of you as an Avalonian,
so don't leave, stay where our energies and spirit unit and make rapid waterfalls flow back up the mountain!

Love,Peace and Hugs
Alan

[STR]

First of all I've left my body so many times now I've lost track of a count. It started when I was young. I can remember the light and in my experience its immediate, you are in the tunnel its over you are through and no choice. No thought, it happens plain and simpe you have "NO" choice in this matter! That is my experience. No choice there. My best friend Gregor took me to a crystal city. Great place. Crystal everywhere, water inviting. I didn't get in tho. Lots of people, some I knew, some not. Happy. Lots of happiness there. I wanted to stay. Was not allowed to remember much more. Some visit with my grandmother on my mother's side. That was it but more came out later. On the return we went to another stop. I got the impression it was lower, deeper maybe. Whatever the vibe here was more dense. Physical almost. I saw some other guys I knew that were there but we stayed only brief and I was back in my house hovering at the table in the room I'm in now. I remember it well. Greg said I had to stay now, he'd see me later. At another time in another now he did that. I awoke went to the bath and cried. It was tremendous. Nothing sinister, nothing evil. Nothing trapped or suspicious, no greys, no moon, no base nothing like anything like or similar to that. I remembered some I was told were back. Some not, some not on earth but doing something else. It was all very voluntary and I saw no evidence of anything but love, joy, happy entities of all the life around me and honestly when I read the fear mongering it almost makes me cry too at times. The idea you can avoid the light to me is laughable. I've been out through it twice and both times you're in it man. No time for reaction.

[Dennis Leahy]

I had projects today, and was not on the computer much. Now I see We-R One has returned to posting on the forum (Yay!), and now I see a request to unsub (Yikes! Boo!)

Can I PLEASE play King Soloman for a minute, and ask We-R-One to stay, and do NOT change your content, but recognize that you're pissing off a few people with your style. I find you to be brilliant, passionate, and well-researched. I don't agree with everything you write, and you and I are both OK with that, right? So, the line from Cool Hand Luke (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBBWUZfgRiw), some sort of a failure to communicate...but I'm convinced it is just a matter of style.

Simon seems like a good guy to me. That doesn't necessarily mean I think he's right about everything. I have only had one OBE/NDE that I can remember, and the ending of the event was fighting NOT to go into the white light (this was 40 years ago, and I had no idea what it was, but knew I was simply being vacuumed in to it - loss of control - so I fought (and snapped back into my body.) I don't think I had any option other than fighting to get back into my body. The only other path was through the white light. (From my EXPERIENCE.)

Having read and re-read Dr. Michael Newton's books, and noting that after over 7000 subjects in deep hypnosis never mentioned NOT going into the light, ALL mentioned that they remembered EVERYTHING when in spirit, ALL mentioned that they were aware that upon reincarnation they would have amnesia - and understood that was the only way to face the "test" of Earth 3D life - and ALL agreed to reincarnate under those conditions.

So, I find this particular tidbit from Simon more than troubling, don't think he's lying (I detect complete sincerity), but may have been given faulty info.

Why I'm writing this here and now is modeling that one can disagree (strongly), profess ones knowledge and beliefs, and not really piss anyone off. I will be pissed off if We-R-One does not reconsider.

Dennis

[thunder24]

You have guts. Even if you unsubscribe, i will write this: you are pushing down our throat your beliefs, and your belief system, and telling us we do not understand a thing, while we have been reading/listening to Braden forever and also to many other sources, a good 20 + years than you.
who is WE? you'v been around forever? oh do tell....

20 years ago I was wearing lipstick and shoe polish on my face as a freshman initiation into high school...






The perfect art of bringing negativity while trying to look as an angel

you may mention the better higher truths at time, but they just do not seem to be digested throughout your being.

You did judgment of others, you get judgment. You created your own reality, you are aware of this right?

condescending much? patronizing much? And by judging back you continue the never ending wheel?



My opinion and I may be wrong, but yet, my opinion.

Ps: spiritual ego does exist too.

yup

---------


This passion of yours could be turned around for the good, you would make an excellent awakener. But for this, revision of your ego and your true intentions, the inner unsuspected ones, "shoud" lol, be undertaken.

judging again?
----------------


And when it is not your way, you quit? well, humility and self analysis is not your forte it seems, it is the others that are wrong, right?
condescending?

[Flash]

You have guts. Even if you unsubscribe, i will write this: you are pushing down our throat your beliefs, and your belief system, and telling us we do not understand a thing, while we have been reading/listening to Braden forever and also to many other sources, a good 20 + years than you.
who is WE? you'v been around forever? oh do tell....

20 years ago I was wearing lipstick and shoe polish on my face as a freshman initiation into high school...






The perfect art of bringing negativity while trying to look as an angel

you may mention the better higher truths at time, but they just do not seem to be digested throughout your being.

You did judgment of others, you get judgment. You created your own reality, you are aware of this right?

condescending much? patronizing much? And by judging back you continue the never ending wheel?



My opinion and I may be wrong, but yet, my opinion.

Ps: spiritual ego does exist too.

yup

---------


This passion of yours could be turned around for the good, you would make an excellent awakener. But for this, revision of your ego and your true intentions, the inner unsuspected ones, "shoud" lol, be undertaken.

judging again?
----------------


And when it is not your way, you quit? well, humility and self analysis is not your forte it seems, it is the others that are wrong, right?
condescending?

of course, all of the above Thunder, i am giving back her own pill to her. And I know, it is not nice, but it is not the time to be tender either.

Yes, much more time than you on this planet. And we are quite a few.

Will she have the guts to confront herself??

[thunder24]

of course, all of the above Thunder, i am giving back her own pill to her. And I know, it is not nice, but it is not the time to be tender either.

Yes, much more time than you on this planet. And we are quite a few

and this is supposed to help how? so your as bad as she is, in ur own view.... :crazy:

[gripreaper]

Can I PLEASE play King Soloman for a minute, and ask We-R-One to stay, and do NOT change your content, but recognize that you're pissing off a few people with your style. I find you to be brilliant, passionate, and well-researched. I don't agree with everything you write, and you and I are both OK with that, right? So, the line from Cool Hand Luke, some sort of a failure to communicate...but I'm convinced it is just a matter of style.
Dennis

And we-R-one sent over her opening post to me for editing as she realizes her "style" rubs some people the wrong way. I don't find her discourse to be abrasive, although she is quite passionate about her viewpoint, which is well supported by research. When the energy shifts and it becomes about the messenger instead of the message, I find that disconcerting.

My only contribution to this thread here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68916-Don-t-go-into-the-light-Simon-Parkes&p=803841#post803841) got very little attention, although it basically says the same thing in a different way.

If we are ever to move away from a polarized patriarchal bias, thus finding the center path, we need the strong feminine. Let's not marginalize those women such as blufire and we-R-one who are strong and passionate, whose delivery rubs us the wrong way. The things which rub us are the things we need to look at.

Anyone care to start a thread on what the strong divine feminine looks like and how the feminine can lead us out of thousands of years of polarized patriarchy? Anyone care to administer grace until we figure this out?

[Synchronicity]

Well, gripreaper, that other post you linked to was a great one and I missed it before. What you said the man you referred to (forgot the name) said about his clients is what I have heard as well, except not all went into a light...but that isn't a big deal to me since I just see where they go as what their frame of reference may be or what means a lot to them. Not saying he's wrong...just saying what I've heard while working with people. Otherwise it follows what I have experienced despite being expressed a bit differently than I would. Very interesting post!

[bruno dante]

I like Dennis' post. I felt lighter after reading it...the result, I think, of sanity entering the building.

I'm by no means anti-Simon, but how can one not question some of his information when even he admits he's been terribly manipulated at times...

Don't go to the light??? Because it's alien sleight of hand??? Excuse me while I let out an enormous GROAN. Next we'll be questioning whether breathing is truly biologically necessary or just an illuminatti ruse.

Please, stop. Just stop.

Guys, there is OVERWHELMING evidence that "going to the light" is a lovely and wonderful experience. There are literally thousands of anecdotal testimonials to confirm this. Over two thirds of all NDE's report an indescribably bright white light, accompanied by an equally indescribable pure love. The experience is overwhelmingly positive and even life changing. Intelligent, well meaning people have written literally dozens of books on the topic. Think about it.

If you are really that determined to be paranoid or fearful, simply look out your window. Or go to yahoo news. There's a loaded list to choose from.

I believe in the fantastical, trust me, but once we start corrupting common sense with fear-based fairy tales, a certain brand of insanity sets in. I'm afraid it's happening right here, right now.

[Gardener]

Golden rule number one. :)

Grip -->The things which rub us are the things we need to look at.
It means there is a 'complex' in the UNCONSCIOUS. Which is UNCONSCIOUS. Sooooo we don't know its there.

Mirrors are good, as long as the mirror doesn't have an unconscious complex, otherwise its a projection or transference.

Great post Grip (both of them)
:behindsofa:

[Jake]

I like Dennis' post. I felt lighter after reading it...the result, I think, of sanity entering the building.

I'm by no means anti-Simon, but how can one not question some of his information when even he admits he's been terribly manipulated at times...

Don't go to the light??? Because it's alien sleight of hand??? Excuse me while I let out an enormous GROAN. Next we'll be questioning whether breathing is truly biologically necessary or just an illuminatti ruse.

Please, stop. Just stop.

Guys, there is OVERWHELMING evidence that "going to the light" is a lovely and wonderful experience. There are literally thousands of anecdotal testimonials to confirm this. Over two thirds of all NDE's report an indescribably bright white light, accompanied by an equally indescribable pure love. The experience is overwhelmingly positive and even life changing. Intelligent, well meaning people have written literally dozens of books on the topic. Think about it.

If you are really that determined to be paranoid or fearful, simply look out your window. Or go to yahoo news. There's a loaded list to choose from.

I believe in the fantastical, trust me, but once we start corrupting common sense with fear-based fairy tales, a certain brand of insanity sets in. I'm afraid it's happening right here, right now.

Hello BrunoDante. You definitely make some clear and valid points. If I may,, Of course we should question the information that Simon brings to the table. We should question ALL information that comes to us. I, personally,, have absolutely NO problem with the testimony of NDExperiencers... The White Light is experiential, meaning that once we pass the veil between physical and non physical,,, 'white' and 'light' become subjective to the experiencer. We simply do not have the words to describe what is being experienced, so,, the 'white light' is how it is described.

In my opinion, there is the true experience of a blissful white light (as described by countless NDEs),,, There is also a great many deception being commanded, and the archetypal way that we think can, and is being manipulated by those who have mastery over the Astral,, and the 'white light' may become the focus of deception,, I am willing to consider it,,, as I have been keenly aware of manipulation in my personal life,, especially regarding Astral experiences and the inability to describe what is truly being experienced,,,

On a side note... A true experience with allthatis would be seamless,,, meaning that there wouldn't be a moment to sit back and ask myself if I should continue forward, as it would be completely natural. If I DID find myself questioning it,,, I would NOT continue. Unless I am mistaken,, this was the point that Simon was trying to make.. You must, of course, always trust your instinct.

Jake.

[Atlas]

Death of the holy bishop Salvius (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/gregory-hist.asp#book7) Sept 10, 584, History of the Franks by Gregory of Tours (539-594), translated by Ernest Brehaut, Ph.D. [Records of Civilization: Sources and Studies] (New York: Columbia University Press. 1916):
----------

"Four days ago when my cell quivered and you saw me lifeless, I was seized by two angels and carried up to the high heavens, so that I thought I had under my feet not only this filthy world but the sun also, and the moon, the clouds and the stars.

Then I was taken through a door brighter than this light into that dwelling in which all the pavement was like shining gold and silver, a brightness and spaciousness beyond description, and such a multitude of both sexes was there that the length and breadth of the throng could not be seen.

A way was made for me through the press by the angels who guided me, and we came to a place which I had already seen from a distance; a cloud hung over it brighter than any light, in which no sun or moon or star could be seen, but excelling all these it gleamed more brightly than the light of nature, and a voice came out of the cloud like a voice of many waters.

Then I, a sinner, was humbly greeted by men in it, priestly and worldly dress who, my guides told me, were martyrs and confessors whom we worship here with the greatest reverence. I stood where I was bidden and a very sweet odor enveloped me so that I was refreshed by this sweetness and up to the present I have wanted no food or drink.

And I heard a voice saying: 'Let him return to the world since he is necessary to our churches.' It was only the voice that was heard, for it could not be seen who spoke. And I threw myself on the pavement and said with loud weeping: 'Alas, Alas, Lord, why didst Thou show me this if I was to be deprived of it. Behold today Thou wilt cast me out from Thy face to return to the sinful world and never be able to return here again. I beseech Thee, Lord, not to take Thy mercy from me but permit me to stay here and not fall thither and perish.'

And the voice which spoke to me said: 'Go in peace, for I am your keeper until I bring you back to this place.' Then I was left alone by my companions and departed weeping by the gate by which I entered and returned here."

[Wind]

I believe in the fantastical, trust me, but once we start corrupting common sense with fear-based fairy tales, a certain brand of insanity sets in. I'm afraid it's happening right here, right now.

Yes, sometimes the conspiracies just go too far and we get deluded (I'm not suggesting that Simon is doing it intentionally, he has just his own beliefs), even to the point where we will start to question our sanity, even if we are already a bit "nuts", at least compared to the rest of the world... We just sometimes forget to snap out of the "fear trap"!

I don't feel like pushing my beliefs or knowingness to anyone, but it does make me sad to see that there are many wise people even in here who think that there is a conspiracy behind the one thing where there isn't. Of course it really doesn't matter when we die, because then we will remember, laugh and shrug off all of our silly earthly delusions and fears... But why wait for death when you can do it now? It's just a matter of choice... Between love and fear.

People really think that God and all of the multiple divine light beings/angels would let some aliens rule even our souls? Or that our experiences are fake on the other side? Puh-lease! This life of ours is a divine creation here on Earth and we are part of it, we are co-creators, not victims! On the astral level this human life seems like a surreal dream and that resting place/heaven feels way more real, because this world really is just an illusion, but it feels very real. Some of those light beings and angels have even chosen to once again reincarnate to these flesh suits, because humans have been in such a peril. Someone needs to tend this kindergarten because it was about to blow up it there still is a risk for it. Some of the discarnate entities here on Earth are actually beings or person who were afraid to go the light, because they might have been afraid of some kind of an punishment or perhaps they didn't even notice that they died and then they just thought to stick around here bothering us!

That's why there are people who are guiding them back to the light and it's a really good thing for both them and us! If we wouldn't suffer, we wouldn't know the meaning of joy and ease. The rules are quite simple, we agree to forget everything before we are born, but some of us have had so many lives that we are able to remember most of the things from our past experiences, but not everything because most of it is trivial. Also we all have been saints and sinners, men and women. Dogs and ponies, trees, the grass and the wind... You name it. That's the way it just is.

Even though "normal" humans are still pretty much in slumber (maybe because they're much younger souls), the veil of forgetfulness is getting more transparent every day and more and more people are awakening. The cosmic clock is ticking!

It may sound naive, but love truly is all that matters. Not conditional love, anyone can do that, but unconditional love. Just let everything else go and know in your heart that in the end love always wins, always. Even in death.

[Synchronicity]

Jake, actually, that light really does look like a light and I would think that's why it's described that way. Sometimes it's not blinding white, but what I have seen with others has not just been described as a light, but has been one. Now that isn't the whole of the experience, but there often (not always) is a light. Whether that comes from the human reference of light being good and therefore it is provided I can't say, but it usually looks like a brighter area, a portal, a doorway, a beautiful brightly lit area, a bright sunshine meadow, sun rippling on the water...something like that. Yes, there is profound joy once the person is ready and goes, but when light is involved it's really light. I'm not saying others don't experience something else...just what I've seen. And I agree once a person is ready to go I have never seen anyone seem to worry about being tricked, but instead goes joyfully.

[bruno dante]

I like Dennis' post. I felt lighter after reading it...the result, I think, of sanity entering the building.

I'm by no means anti-Simon, but how can one not question some of his information when even he admits he's been terribly manipulated at times...

Don't go to the light??? Because it's alien sleight of hand??? Excuse me while I let out an enormous GROAN. Next we'll be questioning whether breathing is truly biologically necessary or just an illuminatti ruse.

Please, stop. Just stop.

Guys, there is OVERWHELMING evidence that "going to the light" is a lovely and wonderful experience. There are literally thousands of anecdotal testimonials to confirm this. Over two thirds of all NDE's report an indescribably bright white light, accompanied by an equally indescribable pure love. The experience is overwhelmingly positive and even life changing. Intelligent, well meaning people have written literally dozens of books on the topic. Think about it.

If you are really that determined to be paranoid or fearful, simply look out your window. Or go to yahoo news. There's a loaded list to choose from.

I believe in the fantastical, trust me, but once we start corrupting common sense with fear-based fairy tales, a certain brand of insanity sets in. I'm afraid it's happening right here, right now.

Hello BrunoDante. You definitely make some clear and valid points. If I may,, Of course we should question the information that Simon brings to the table. We should question ALL information that comes to us. I, personally,, have absolutely NO problem with the testimony of NDExperiencers... The White Light is experiential, meaning that once we pass the veil between physical and non physical,,, 'white' and 'light' become subjective to the experiencer. We simply do not have the words to describe what is being experienced, so,, the 'white light' is how it is described.

In my opinion, there is the true experience of a blissful white light (as described by countless NDEs),,, There is also a great many deception being commanded, and the archetypal way that we think can, and is being manipulated by those who have mastery over the Astral,, and the 'white light' may become the focus of deception,, I am willing to consider it,,, as I have been keenly aware of manipulation in my personal life,, especially regarding Astral experiences and the inability to describe what is truly being experienced,,,

On a side note... A true experience with allthatis would be seamless,,, meaning that there wouldn't be a moment to sit back and ask myself if I should continue forward, as it would be completely natural. If I DID find myself questioning it,,, I would NOT continue. Unless I am mistaken,, this was the point that Simon was trying to make.. You must, of course, always trust your instinct.

Jake.

Hi Jake, Listen, I hear you brother...

I'm willing to at least consider most anything too; my presence here on Avalon should at least be confirmation of that.

But when confronted with the profound wealth of evidence regarding the "light", I think we can safely assume what happens in most cases after death...and I stress "most cases" , as there will of course be the anomalous event or two.

And when confronted with this evidence, I have to ask myself, after weighing it against my curiosity of Simon's statement, whether a thread like this is really constructive after all things are considered. My personal opinion is that it perpetuates fear and paranoia more than anything else. Sometimes the truth does the same, but considering everything I've researched concerning this topic, I can't, with reason, regard this anti-light sermonizing as anything less than fear mongering. I don't think it's done on purpose, mind you. But it's more harmful than helpful, in this poster's opinion.

This spiritual amnesia is necessary anyhow, isn't it? If you know all the answers, a 3d life is pretty meaningless, right? There's no real room for growth, spiritual maturation etc..

Of course I'm not an authority here. I don't know what happens with 100% certainty. My belief is a choice, and I choose to believe this way for 2 reasons. Number one is the enormous evidence, and number 2 is my feeling that God/Universe is a benevolent creator, as Wind explained so eloquently, and I have to believe He/She/It wouldn't allow a soul, our essence, to dangle so helplessly for a predatory alien race to take advantage of. I know there is some sort of astral tampering, some other dimensional mischief going on, but I simply can't accept that our creator would allow it to such an extent that our very souls become bait in some kind of sick alien game. Truthfully, I have to believe that, as to believe otherwise might cause an existential crisis. I think a man without some sort of notion of a benevolent God is a man who is flailing in the spiritual wind, so to speak. In other words, why even carry on if every step in the evolution of my spirit involves some sort of weird alien challenge? I'm not even interested in participating in that type of game. It reduces God and existence to an MTV reality show: keep passing endless malevolent alien challenges and you win Nirvana! Hooray!

Sorry man, I just can't accept that. I find it impossible to believe that a compassionate, brilliant God would arrange things that way. It seems so backwards.

My 2 cents, with respect.

[heretogrow]

I really think what would sadden Simon the most would be the division and the need to divide camps into those who wish to protect him and those who do not believe. From what I have seen of Simon he stands on his own integrity and he is a big boy. I am sure his skin has grown thick and he can handle those who question and raise eyebrows. Still he trudges on to risk the ridicule and speak of his experiences, answer questions, take the criticism and skeptics with no animosity, strive for the highest good. In my own opinion what I think would upset him would be us not respecting all of the opinions on Avalon, whether in favor or not. He seems to be teaching us that we are all at different stages and tolerance, empathy and acceptance of others beliefs are of upmost importance. To me I see him as a gentle man. I find his postings thought provoking and enthralling, and yes like a groupie of some great band I have at times melted in response to what he has presented. I have also considered how truly brave he must be, or how truly able to stand alone it must be to stand in a crowd of skeptics and be the first to present information such as this as the normal afternoon conversation. He has a purpose and I believe with my heart he knows that. I doubt if it troubles him much that some may not see things the way he does. Just my humble opinion so please forgive me if I have spoken out of context or seemed to step on anyone's toes! No harm intended to anyone! Just food for thought!

[Shezbeth]

In having thoroughly processed the Bardo Thodol, the following thoughts come to mind in regard to the 'White Light', 'Trap', 'Implants', etc.

If the Thodol is to be taken as authoritative, then the process it describes is a meticulous process designed to liberate the soul unless (for a multitude of reasons) the soul is inadequate to experience liberation. I.e. free to continue unless proven otherwise, as opposed to enslaved unless proven otherwise.

Instead of sinister ET forces waiting to jump on an unsuspecting victim, the process seems much more streamlined and balanced, where the soul in question has ample opportunity to escape through a variety of perceptions and referendums. The nefarious hunter/trappers are (in my mind) replaced by a sharp butler waiting to see if the soul continues on, and if not, note why. Something like:
"Did the soul pass on? _Yes _No - If No, list reasons/unresolved conflicts ___________________________".

It would seem that for a soul that is adequately prepared, the process of passing on/liberation is something of a given, and that only the insufficiently prepared soul is even eligable for memory-wipe/reincarnation shenanigens (and that after exhaustively trying every thought-form which might disqualify).

I am not saying that the Thodol is authoritative, nor that my conclusions are accurate, but it's description of death seems far less onerous than elsewhere depicted/discussed.
Simply put, the following thoughts come to mind surrounding the 'white light', voiced from the position of that sharp butler I mentioned earlier.

"It is not a trap and was never designed to be a trap. The only reason it seems a trap now is due to the overwhelming majority of negligent humans unable/unwilling to evolve themselves. The 'trap' was 'intended' to be something of a recycling bin for the random, stray soul that wouldn't make it. Imagine an almost continuous stream of souls passing along in demise, with an occasional exception rerouting for another life; It's backwards the way things are now. If more people spent a little more time on themselves with the time they are given it would not look like a trap, it would look like a mail chute. That's what its SUPPOSED to look like except that would require personal responsibility; Who wants to do that? I mean, why WOULD someone want to continue on in their evolution/existence, when they can just sign themselves up for another round of low density strife, adversity, and perdition?!

And not a word of gratitude either! Do any of those have ANY idea what would happen to an incomplete soul that was allowed to slip through? Oh, but none of that now. Humans are far too busy pointing the finger, playing the victim, and worrying what is around the corner to recognize their own inadequate participation in the equation.

But that's why most end up as food I guess,...."

At least, that's how I envision it in my head. I don't wholly agree with the disposition I express, but neither do I disagree with it. Personally, I remain unconvicted as to what will/does happen in physical death. Perhaps there is a light, perhaps not. Perhaps that light is a trap, perhaps not. Regardless, everyone will have a chance to try their particular 'flavor' of response to death events.

And, guess what? By all indications, the 'consequence' of 'not' choosing the 'right' light is another chance! Oh, sure one may have to suffer through another experience of existence, but that's what happens when one sleeps too much in class.

All those who illustrate that the light is nefarious, you have my appreciation. Whether it is a malicious trap remains to be seen, and I appreciate the heads up that it might be. All those who illustrate that the light is magnanimous, you have my appreciation. Whether it is a natural blessing remains to be seen, and I appreciate the heads up that it might be.

And to anyone looking to make up another's mind for them,... I have some four letter words for ya. ^_~

[bruno dante]

I really think what would sadden Simon the most would be the division and the need to divide camps into those who wish to protect him and those who do not believe. From what I have seen of Simon he stands on his own integrity and he is a big boy. I am sure his skin has grown thick and he can handle those who question and raise eyebrows. Still he trudges on to risk the ridicule and speak of his experiences, answer questions, take the criticism and skeptics with no animosity, strive for the highest good. In my own opinion what I think would upset him would be us not respecting all of the opinions on Avalon, whether in favor or not. He seems to be teaching us that we are all at different stages and tolerance, empathy and acceptance of others beliefs are of upmost importance. To me I see him as a gentle man. I find his postings thought provoking and enthralling, and yes like a groupie of some great band I have at times melted in response to what he has presented. I have also considered how truly brave he must be, or how truly able to stand alone it must be to stand in a crowd of skeptics and be the first to present information such as this as the normal afternoon conversation. He has a purpose and I believe with my heart he knows that. I doubt if it troubles him much that some may not see things the way he does. Just my humble opinion so please forgive me if I have spoken out of context or seemed to step on anyone's toes! No harm intended to anyone! Just food for thought!

Nice post Heretogrow!

I just want to say, for the record, that I've no wish to ridicule or denigrate Simon. Obviously I can't prove that the things he says are true, but my intuition tells me he is a good man. I do reserve the right to question him from time to time. As he's said, he questions himself sometimes. It's the mark of a humble and intelligent man. I appreciate that about him.

Cheers!

[greybeard]

The near death experiences that I have read or listened to have pointed out a life review where they felt as though they were literally the other.
When they returned to Earth most had full memory of their life from childhood on.
They said that over there is real and here an illusion by comparison.
That there is no difference between Source and us.
Dannion Brinkley is very clear that the light/being that meets you is actually yourself.
Basically those who have come back and shared their experience were profoundly changed and all fear of death had gone.

Im glad that quite a few are now giving a balanced opinion of going into or not going into the light.
The thread was not started by Simon, most responses were in answer to the OP request.

I think Dennis made a very institutive (hope that;s right word) post which I agree with

Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvmABrII35c



Published on 23 Oct 2013

Anita Moorjani talks with Hay House Event Director Nancy Levin about her near-death experience (NDE) and how it has transformed her—including her complete healing from end-stage cancer in the weeks following her NDE. In this hour-long conversation, Anita describes her experience on the Other Side, her return to this life, and her healing. She shares the truths she discovered about illness, healing, death, those who have passed on, the purpose of life, and who we truly are. Learn why there's nothing to forgive and why allowing love—unconditional self-love—is the key to moving forward into becoming who you were meant to be. Anita leads a guided meditation to access the very essence of your being and provides simple exercises to understand the nature of awareness and to begin living in the joy and magnificence that is your birthright (Hay House World Summit 2013).
See also "Unconditional Love - Wayne Dyer meets Anita Moorjani" here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYx0gp...
And: "Anita Moorjani On Her Near-Death Experience" here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9c87




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoZLovQrEAY

[araucaria]

If the after-death recycling scheme is a trap, one may wonder why it is almost invariably such a beautiful experience for NDErs. It could be turned into a real dusting down to make people feel lucky to be alive again, and more docile. However, hardly anyone has a hellish experience, even believers in hell who have done everything to deserve that fate. In other words, why pretend to be nice about it when there is really no need? Just a thought.

[Agape]

This local groupie read in quick succession ..the thread in particular ... starts to remind me of some perverted cult with members struggling to get ready for imminent event of mass suicide ;););)

Can you just , maybe , only maybe, stop pondering about 'it' for a while since there's obviously no way to sort 'it' out ?

You understand you drive yourself to paradigmatic situation here , and there're two ways with 'it' , either you take it lightly .. and then the discussion can be turned to a joke anytime or take it seriously and drive your consciousness to trouble ,
with number of other peoples 'alternative opinions' .

P.S. The last thing anyone want to have on their death bed is arguments ...


....


I remember .. years ago , when I was still teaching meditation and all things related .. you know how people are different from each other, some prefer sophisticated explanations and studies ( such as can be found in the Bardol Thodol or for example, in the Monroe Institute ) , others dismiss long debates being useful and want to be 'shown' things by direct instruction or example.

My mum who had to go through some kind of surgery repeatedly that involved anaesthesia and I know she was hell afraid she may pass out within this,
I remember she broke to tears one day .. saying she is not ready and does not want to get ready ( ;) ) and no matter what I do ( yes what I do - not what she does ), she will be very scared.
And I knew her , being correct, she was able to start fighting with doctors on the surgery table , out of sudden , hysterical girl , and tell them .. let me go home . She's done things like that couple of times .

The only 'instruction' I finally gave her .. was .. before you go 'there' , meaning before they give her the anaesthetic , imagine vividly something you really enjoy, like field of wild flowers, something beautiful, and give your vision all you can , the warmth of the Sun, the smells, the colours, humming of bees .. and I'll be there for you.
It had to be simple ..else she'd not agree to do it .

Later when we talked .. as I was not physically around at all times, she told me she used this imagination each time when she had to go through some sort of difficult treatment .. and ( to my surprise ) it worked .
It was actually due to this medical induction that she had to learn to 'meditate' and have some saviour methods and keys to use at hand .

What I'm saying is .. things simply do not work for everyone the same , but it's the love that is the most important.



:luv:

[Realeyes]

Dear we-R-one, I have just seen mentioned in posts that you have requested to unsubscribe your membership – I hope during the night you change your decision and had time for deep reflection. :love:

The very topic of this thread has been of great interest and passion for me since the age of 4 years old, a soul knowingness that concerned the Light passage upon death. I have naturally had out of body experiences since a child, so I have experienced the ‘other side’ hundreds of times, especially going through the white light to understand it more and I do understand my truth is subjective to just me the beholder of the experience and may not be valid to anyone else’s unique journey. I also understand o.o.b. maybe different to a full blown committed death experience. I am willing to share what I have experienced with going into the white light and I would really love to hear your own experiences we-R-one of what you too have witnessed firsthand yourself that explains how you have arrived to a strong knowingness of truth about the white light. This type of experiential sharing is what I believe this discussion thread is all about – a round table sharing what PA members know/experienced/understand.

We-R-one, we have spoken a couple of times in depth filled with timeless spiralling conversations, so I believe you have an idea of who I am and where I am coming from and not out to attack you in any way, that is not my nature. To be clear - I have not experienced ‘alien white light’ nor any recall of ever ‘arriving in implant stations’ and I have not had a ‘NDE’; Yet I do have plenty of firsthand experience via o.o.b.e. on this curious subject. Wouldn’t you like to participate in a thread that really looks in depth into this less spoken subject with members sharing what they have had in firsthand experience – I see progressive value in that. :grouphug:

I too have been studying the wonders of Quantum Sciences since 2001 and how this correlates with what the mystics of old were describing. I also see within all these quantum potentials that there is also room for the ‘possibilities’ that such frequency fences, false light technology and implant stations ‘just might exist’. If someone can think it, the chances are this is not the first time in all of Creation that such an idea has been thought about before. And when adding into the mix the ‘greater observer effect’ such potentials are possible. Right now I am keeping an open neutral mind and very much appreciating those who bravely share their experiences or research on this particular subject. :hug:

During my own spiritual studies over the decades I’ve come across at times ‘do not go into the white light’, so this message is not new to me, nor unique to Simon Parkes, so I am slightly baffled why his name is in the thread title, I think this is publically misleading, Simon is not the ‘originator’ of such a concept AND this is not the first time this particular subject has been discussed on PA.

(1) Is this thread about ‘the white light’ phenomena in ‘general’?

(2) Or is it specifically about Simon Parkes’ and his white light?

Starseed108, this is your thread. Can you please advice and define for me what you actually want this thread discussion to be about as I am unclear. :hug: I will continue for now on the premise that it is the white light in ‘general’ that is being discussed. Smile.

As to the concept “do not go into the light” and its ‘implications’ and ‘reasons’ why can be interpreted in so many ways. I suspect the reason why this concept is usually kept hidden in mystery schools only taught to the advance adept is because of the reactions such an implication can instil within. YET if this is the Age of transparency where truths and knowledge are returned to humanities awareness, I know for myself I would like to understand and know as much as I can ‘prior’ to committing to anything on ‘other side’ – I don’t want to be a faithful buffalo blindly following a herd plummeting off a cliff! This life surely is about ‘self responsibility’ in ALL WAYS that (to me) includes the ‘other side’ too.

I very much hope this thread will continue to flourish in a healthy productive and respectful manner allowing everyone a voice to share and spiritually grow wiser. There have been some truly golden nuggets of insightful wise posts on this thread!

To We-R-one, I know in your heart you dream of humanity living as free souls in a reality frequency of Joy, peace, love, hope serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth compassion – Most who gather here on PA have the same focussed dream, and from all that I have read and learned from speaking to Simon, he too has the same focused dream. :love:

And please know I understand exactly your passion about the Source Field, and agree science is now explaining the fantastic wonders that the mystics over the ages have been saying. Yes it is so exciting when we start working with the Source Field reconnecting to our Source where abilities such as manifesting, experiencing instantaneous healing in our bodies, avoiding car accidents with time/space reality bending/jumping, levitation, becoming invisible, bi-location, straddling realities, Future mind etc, etc, etc – the more we awaken to who we really BE the more phenomena pours out of us into our reality showing to us beyond doubt that we are Conscious Divine Eternal Beings. :angel:

Love & Blessings Realeyes X :hug:

I dug out some of my Quantum books from my bookshelf by some other scientifically minded authors that we-R-one (and others) may be interested in.


Science & Human Transformation, Subtle Energies, Intentionality & Consciousness – William A Tiller
Stalking the Wild Pendulum on the Mechanics of Consciousness – Itzhak Bentov
Alice in Quantum land – Robert Gilmore
The Wizard of Quarks – Robert Gilmore
A Universe of Consciousness How Matter Becomes Imagination – Gerald M. Edelman
Hyperspace, A Scientific Odyssey Through The 10th Dimension – Michio Kaku
The Quantum Self Human Nature & Consciousness – Danah Zohar
The Self Aware Universe, How Consciousness Creates the Material World – Amit Goswami
Physics of the Soul – Amit Goswami Ph.D
Taking The Quantum Leap – Fred Alan Wolf
Breaking The Habit of Being Yourself, How To Lose Your Mind & Create A New One – Dr Joe Dispenza
The Morning of the Magicians – Louis Pauwels & Jacques Bergier
Molecules Of Emotion, The Science Behind Mind-Body Medicine – Candace B Pert PhD
The Emotional Brain – Joseph LeDoux
Synaptic Self, How Are Brain Become Who We Are – Joseph LeDoux
Messages in Water – Masaru Emoto

[Realeyes]

Bearing in mind this is a ‘public thread’ with Simon Parkes name in the title there will be many outside viewers attracted to this thread who cannot view for themselves the ‘member only Simon Thread’ to fully understand what all the kerfuffle is about that has occurred on this public thread. Seeing as I have been participating on that 'member only thread' I would like to share from my own perspective that may assist in restoring some balance or at least another side to it. I am not a fast writer with my thoughts nor hold a great vocabulary of the English language which means I am usually slower than many when it comes to posting, so apologises if this post is now ‘out of time’ to where the thread is flowing to.

From what I am understanding reading in between the insightful lines from members posts on all three Q & A and discussion threads, I see the majority in how they consciously write are in agreement and on the same page understanding:

• We never left Source
• We are Eternal Beings
• We are Soul, Spirit & Source
• We live in a Holographic Universe
• We create our personal reality
• We co-exist in a collective reality
• We are Infinite Consciousness temporarily experiencing a physical body
(Please fill in your extras to this list.) ;)

Do I personally believe there is a psyops going on with Simon? No - yet understand a psyops can arise at any moment especially when information ‘outside the box’ is being revealed.

We-R-One is correct that no one was posting links to Greg Braden or Bruce Lipton or other sciences because that was not what the discussion on the thread was about, just like I wouldn’t expect to find science links in the cookery thread. Also, I have read ¾ of that entire thread and what I have read in the majority of members posts are exceptionally astute people walking their own unique soul journeys - who are consciously aware and KNOW they are connected to the Source Field; they understand they create personal reality within a collect reality within a holographic universe and just like I am breathing right now while writing this post, I don’t need to keep reminding everyone that I am still breathing.

Simon’s thread (including everyone else’s posts) for me is one of the most valuable threads I have ever engaged with! Everyone’s contributions have been so informative, insightful, wise; thought provoking; defining; compassionate; mindful; members sharing their experiences..... dots joining all over the place ‘unique’ to each individuals own soul journey – I am seeing a cohesive high frequency flow of energy – beautiful to observe. I have met some amazing like minds and reengaged with star friends - This thread is so much more than just about Simon; yes he was the main focus that instigated this gathering, yet it has grown into so much more than this.... There really is something occurring that is rather wonderful, many of us are experiencing a type of spiritual quickening upgrade within our own unique soul journeys through our ‘own connection to Source’. I cannot find words to explain, it is like describing a new colour that only makes sense when one sees it.

It is for that reason why I am so sorry to read others suspect something very dark is occurring. Please know I have not had a lobotomy, I have not fallen for ‘false bliss’ nor forgotten ‘the way’- smile. To those whom are very concerned, if I happen to be one of those members that you are worried about for ‘my safety’, please be rest assured I am actually having a wonderful spiritually evolving time – using my own discernment and very much looking after myself and my soul and always engaging with my spirit and Source – all is purposely well this end. :cool:

As to Simon’s ‘PA members’ only thread (not accessible to the public) this was a group decision – no conspiracy there.

The title of Simon’s thread (created by another member) indicates the thread is a discussion about 4D Beings and because we live in a 3D reality it also discusses how 4D can influence 3D. I suppose one could call it the 4D/3.5D/3D chess game if you like, and an opportunity to understand more about the different 4D/3.5D/3D Beings, species and races, and their states of mind and belief systems. It also gives an insight and awareness of the ‘mind construct systems’ that arise in these lower kingdoms of consciousness and variations of Time/Space. The thread title does not read ‘total enlightenment’ nor eludes to such, so I presuming those members participating can read, are cognisant and are clear on the subject matter being discussed – ‘3D and 4D’. If they want to read up on other very valuable topics such as Science or Out of Body, or Kundalini or Spiritual Solutions etc, I highly suspect they are clever enough to know where to look in the vastness of thread topics and all the other knowledge this forum contains – we are all having our own unique soul journeys flowing towards certain topics in our ‘own timing’. :love: :angel:

I know I have written a few lengthy posts about Soul, Spirit and the Higher Kingdoms and ‘walking the path’ and Simon has agreed that (paraphrasing because it’s on a members only thread, so this is how I understood it) ‘Humanity’ has the divine abilities within them to spiritually awaken and evolve into the higher levels of Consciousness all the way to Source - that is ‘beyond’ what the 4D the Mantids or Reptilians ‘present’ stage is (they too have similar options of spiritual evolution if they so chose). Simon makes it clear that he wants humanity to consciously wake up and spiritually evolve - isn’t that what we all hope and strive for?

I have also personally spoken to Simon and for me the timing has been perfect! For myself I feel blessed to be able to participate with Simon on his thread; it has helped me grow exponentially within myself filling in so many gaps and questions and I am more self empowered for this experience. As I have perceived Simon (and I have a laser observer) he has always come across as patient, thoughtful, caring, knowledgeable, considerate, kind, insightful, honest, and compassionate and all the other actions of someone walking with impeccability and being of service to humanity to the best of their abilities. I know there are many other members who have witnessed the same.

The alternative community so often says ‘we want the truth’, yet how many more ‘messengers’ do we have to shoot down before realising it is the ‘message’ that counts, and that each one of us has ‘free will’ and ‘self choice’ to take it or leave it. I personally don’t like the taste of tea, yet I am quite happy for someone to sit next to me enjoying their cup of tea.

Love & Blessings to you all
Realeyes X :love::grouphug:


I will end this post with a quote from David Icke.



One man cannot change the world,
but one man can communicate the message that can change the world!
Do what you like as long as you don't impose on others.
You know people go,
"Oh it's ever so negative what you saying about what these people are doing."
Well please excuse me! Knowledge is never negative. Ignorance is negative.
And if you think it's negative and fearful to
expose what is going on in the world so we can do something about it,
then you are saying something about you and not the information.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_autor_icke.htm

[Synchronicity]

I don't know Simon or anything about him, so for me this isn't about him at all since I haven't been here long. I think that is a good thing at this point since any opinion I can give is just that and nothing to do with anyone's credibility. I think one person's viewpoint and experience is just as valid as another's, and I just have to go on what I see around me and my own experience. For me it's all about growing, healing, and moving toward positive energy, and the messenger might be a farmhand with a 3rd grade education or a Physics professor. In the long run I'm the only one on my path and when this particular life is over I'll be stepping on to the next place. Whether I see light or whatever else, I am not afraid and the ones who come back to visit aren't in anguish or misery, so I'm okay with what is ahead.

And I say "I" a lot and speak from that perspective because I don't like to speak for others' unless I feel I can, so just explaining that. I don't like to say a whole group does anything since we all have different paths. I am not saying my way is the way :)

[AngelArmy]

I just wanted an answer from Simon maybe hes too busy, wasn't sure how to post for that

[Hervé]

To anyone able to connect dots and by way of analogy:


90xfZJQzAhc

Related data:


1) Pete Peterson in Camelot interview pointing that only 15% of the population is not hypnotizable with a strong indication that those 15% carry off-world genes.

2) The third man in the room on how even "unwilling" subjects are also hypnotizable:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/misc/quote_icon.png Cosmic Cointelpro Timeline (http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/timeline.htm)

There is a little known fact about hypnosis that is illustrated by the following story:

A subject was told under hypnosis that when he was awakened he would be unable to see a third man in the room who, it was suggested to him, would have become invisible. All the "proper" suggestions to make this "true" were given, such as "you will NOT see so- and-so" etc... When the subject was awakened, lo and behold! the suggestions did NOT work.

Why? Because they went against his belief system. He did NOT believe that a person could become invisible.

So, another trial was made. The subject was hypnotized again and was told that the third man was leaving the room... that he had been called away on urgent business, and the scene of him getting on his coat and hat was described... the door was opened and shut to provide "sound effects," and then the subject was brought out of the trance.

Guess what happened?

He was UNABLE TO SEE the Third Man.

Why? Because his perceptions were modified according to his beliefs. Certain "censors" in his brain were activated in a manner that was acceptable to his ego survival instincts.

The ways and means that we ensure survival of the ego are established pretty early in life by our parental and societal programming. This conditioning determines what IS or is NOT possible; what we are "allowed" to believe in order to be accepted. We learn this first by learning what pleases our parents and then later we modify our belief based on what pleases our society - our peers - to believe.

Anyway, to return to our story, the Third Man went about the room picking things up and setting them down and doing all sorts of things to test the subject's awareness of his presence, and the subject became utterly hysterical at this "anomalous" activity! He could see objects moving through the air, doors opening and closing, but he could NOT see the SOURCE because he did not believe that there was another man in the room.

So, what are the implications of this factor of human consciousness? (By the way, this is also the reason why most therapies to stop bad habits do not work - they attempt to operate against a "belief system" that is imprinted in the subconscious that this or that habit is essential to survival.)

One of the first things we might observe is that everyone has a different set of beliefs based upon their social and familial conditioning, and that these beliefs determine how much of the OBJECTIVE reality anyone is able to access.

In the above story, the objective reality IS WHAT IT IS, whether it is truly objective, or only a consensus reality. In this story, there is clearly a big part of that reality that is inaccessible to the subject due to a perception censor which was activated by the suggestions of the hypnotist. That is to say, the subject has a strong belief, based upon his CHOICE as to who or what to believe - the hypnotist or his own, unfettered observations of reality. In this case, he has chosen to believe the hypnotist and not what he might be able to observe if he dispensed with the perception censor put in place by the hypnotist who activated his "belief center" - even if that activation was fraudulent.

And so it is with nearly all human beings: we believe the hypnotist - the "official culture" - and we are able, with preternatural cunning, to deny what is often right in front of our faces. And in the case of the hypnosis subject, he is entirely at the mercy of the "Invisible Man" because he chooses not to see him.


VTobS-09fBQ
Since we are on a forum where ETs, transdimentional/transdenstiy interferences are taken as seriously as sky-hooks... none of the above could possibly happen during abductions or emergency crew recovery or upon death of any "agents/probes/sleepers"... right?

The above , on the other side of the dice, also demonstrates that "we" sure do create our own reality... trouble is... which one?

The implanted, unconscious one or the one we consciously aspire to?


Edit: How "Flashes" are used to induce trances (Zombies Part I):


ccvrcbDmvMw

[Realeyes]

I just wanted an answer from Simon maybe hes too busy, wasn't sure how to post for that

Hi Starseed108, have you posted your question on Simon's Q & A thread, that is where member's questions are answered by him.

Here is the thread link :hug:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30323-Simon-Parkes-about-Mantis-Aliens-Reptiles-and-other-aliens.

[Sebastion]

Amzer, your post only deals with people's consciousness while they are in the body and how they can be fooled, tricked and be manipulated. That underscores the importance of taking charge of your own beingness, your own awareness. One must prepare for the eventual separation from the body consciousness because it is inevitable. Awareness out of body is quite different from being in the body. One learns what those differences are by preparing your way while still living in physicality.

Your example shows how one can be manipulated by something outside of you. How powerful can you become by going within your own beingness and taking charge? How powerful can one become by strengthening your own spiritual connection to Source to its maximum degree? Maybe it's time to find out. One does after all, have the ability to "program" yourself, which if properly done through your own spiritual connections, I believe would overcome any programs installed by any alien.




To anyone able to connect dots and by way of analogy:


90xfZJQzAhc

Related data:


1) Pete Peterson in Camelot interview pointing that only 15% of the population is not hypnotizable with a strong indication that those 15% carry off-world genes.

2) The third man in the room on how even "unwilling" subjects are also hypnotizable:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/misc/quote_icon.png Cosmic Cointelpro Timeline (http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/timeline.htm)

There is a little known fact about hypnosis that is illustrated by the following story:

A subject was told under hypnosis that when he was awakened he would be unable to see a third man in the room who, it was suggested to him, would have become invisible. All the "proper" suggestions to make this "true" were given, such as "you will NOT see so- and-so" etc... When the subject was awakened, lo and behold! the suggestions did NOT work.

Why? Because they went against his belief system. He did NOT believe that a person could become invisible.

So, another trial was made. The subject was hypnotized again and was told that the third man was leaving the room... that he had been called away on urgent business, and the scene of him getting on his coat and hat was described... the door was opened and shut to provide "sound effects," and then the subject was brought out of the trance.

Guess what happened?

He was UNABLE TO SEE the Third Man.

Why? Because his perceptions were modified according to his beliefs. Certain "censors" in his brain were activated in a manner that was acceptable to his ego survival instincts.

The ways and means that we ensure survival of the ego are established pretty early in life by our parental and societal programming. This conditioning determines what IS or is NOT possible; what we are "allowed" to believe in order to be accepted. We learn this first by learning what pleases our parents and then later we modify our belief based on what pleases our society - our peers - to believe.

Anyway, to return to our story, the Third Man went about the room picking things up and setting them down and doing all sorts of things to test the subject's awareness of his presence, and the subject became utterly hysterical at this "anomalous" activity! He could see objects moving through the air, doors opening and closing, but he could NOT see the SOURCE because he did not believe that there was another man in the room.

So, what are the implications of this factor of human consciousness? (By the way, this is also the reason why most therapies to stop bad habits do not work - they attempt to operate against a "belief system" that is imprinted in the subconscious that this or that habit is essential to survival.)

One of the first things we might observe is that everyone has a different set of beliefs based upon their social and familial conditioning, and that these beliefs determine how much of the OBJECTIVE reality anyone is able to access.

In the above story, the objective reality IS WHAT IT IS, whether it is truly objective, or only a consensus reality. In this story, there is clearly a big part of that reality that is inaccessible to the subject due to a perception censor which was activated by the suggestions of the hypnotist. That is to say, the subject has a strong belief, based upon his CHOICE as to who or what to believe - the hypnotist or his own, unfettered observations of reality. In this case, he has chosen to believe the hypnotist and not what he might be able to observe if he dispensed with the perception censor put in place by the hypnotist who activated his "belief center" - even if that activation was fraudulent.

And so it is with nearly all human beings: we believe the hypnotist - the "official culture" - and we are able, with preternatural cunning, to deny what is often right in front of our faces. And in the case of the hypnosis subject, he is entirely at the mercy of the "Invisible Man" because he chooses not to see him.


VTobS-09fBQ
Since we are on a forum where ETs, transdimentional/transdenstiy interferences are taken as seriously as sky-hooks... none of the above could possibly happen during abductions or emergency crew recovery or upon death of any "agents/probes/sleepers"... right?

The above , on the other side of the dice, also demonstrates that "we" sure do create our own reality... trouble is... which one?

The implanted, unconscious one or the one we consciously aspire to?

[Christine]

As was cleared up by starseed108 wanting Simon's personal answer and because we ARE having a discussion about the merits/ dangers/ experiences of "Going to the light" the thread title has been changed.

[gripreaper]

The only 'instruction' I finally gave her .. was .. before you go 'there' , meaning before they give her the anaesthetic , imagine vividly something you really enjoy, like field of wild flowers, something beautiful, and give your vision all you can , the warmth of the Sun, the smells, the colours, humming of bees .. and I'll be there for you.
It had to be simple ..else she'd not agree to do it .

Beautiful. Anyone who has ever done end of life hospice care can attest to this as well. The resonant feeling tone is what drives the matrix. If one is in fear, fear is what the universe returns. If one is in love, then conversely, love becomes the experience.

To create a "meme" which states "do not go towards the light" because it is a trap by the evil Archon's to recycle you into their prison planet so that they can continue to vampire your energy, and they are creating holograms in the astral planes to trick you into thinking and believing and feeling that the white light is your return to source! Don't do it, I tell ya!

Does this make you feel loving or fearful?

[AngelArmy]

As was cleared up by starseed108 wanting Simon's personal answer and because we ARE having a discussion about the merits/ dangers/ experiences of "Going to the light" the thread title has been changed.

Thanks for that :)

[Flash]

I like Dennis' post. I felt lighter after reading it...the result, I think, of sanity entering the building.

I'm by no means anti-Simon, but how can one not question some of his information when even he admits he's been terribly manipulated at times...

Don't go to the light??? Because it's alien sleight of hand??? Excuse me while I let out an enormous GROAN. Next we'll be questioning whether breathing is truly biologically necessary or just an illuminatti ruse.

Please, stop. Just stop.

Guys, there is OVERWHELMING evidence that "going to the light" is a lovely and wonderful experience. There are literally thousands of anecdotal testimonials to confirm this. Over two thirds of all NDE's report an indescribably bright white light, accompanied by an equally indescribable pure love. The experience is overwhelmingly positive and even life changing. Intelligent, well meaning people have written literally dozens of books on the topic. Think about it.

If you are really that determined to be paranoid or fearful, simply look out your window. Or go to yahoo news. There's a loaded list to choose from.

I believe in the fantastical, trust me, but once we start corrupting common sense with fear-based fairy tales, a certain brand of insanity sets in. I'm afraid it's happening right here, right now.

Hello BrunoDante. You definitely make some clear and valid points. If I may,, Of course we should question the information that Simon brings to the table. We should question ALL information that comes to us. I, personally,, have absolutely NO problem with the testimony of NDExperiencers... The White Light is experiential, meaning that once we pass the veil between physical and non physical,,, 'white' and 'light' become subjective to the experiencer. We simply do not have the words to describe what is being experienced, so,, the 'white light' is how it is described.

In my opinion, there is the true experience of a blissful white light (as described by countless NDEs),,, There is also a great many deception being commanded, and the archetypal way that we think can, and is being manipulated by those who have mastery over the Astral,, and the 'white light' may become the focus of deception,, I am willing to consider it,,, as I have been keenly aware of manipulation in my personal life,, especially regarding Astral experiences and the inability to describe what is truly being experienced,,,

On a side note... A true experience with allthatis would be seamless,,, meaning that there wouldn't be a moment to sit back and ask myself if I should continue forward, as it would be completely natural. If I DID find myself questioning it,,, I would NOT continue. Unless I am mistaken,, this was the point that Simon was trying to make.. You must, of course, always trust your instinct.

Jake.

Hi Jake, Listen, I hear you brother...

I'm willing to at least consider most anything too; my presence here on Avalon should at least be confirmation of that.

But when confronted with the profound wealth of evidence regarding the "light", I think we can safely assume what happens in most cases after death...and I stress "most cases" , as there will of course be the anomalous event or two.

And when confronted with this evidence, I have to ask myself, after weighing it against my curiosity of Simon's statement, whether a thread like this is really constructive after all things are considered. My personal opinion is that it perpetuates fear and paranoia more than anything else. Sometimes the truth does the same, but considering everything I've researched concerning this topic, I can't, with reason, regard this anti-light sermonizing as anything less than fear mongering. I don't think it's done on purpose, mind you. But it's more harmful than helpful, in this poster's opinion.

This spiritual amnesia is necessary anyhow, isn't it? If you know all the answers, a 3d life is pretty meaningless, right? There's no real room for growth, spiritual maturation etc..

Of course I'm not an authority here. I don't know what happens with 100% certainty. My belief is a choice, and I choose to believe this way for 2 reasons. Number one is the enormous evidence, and number 2 is my feeling that God/Universe is a benevolent creator, as Wind explained so eloquently, and I have to believe He/She/It wouldn't allow a soul, our essence, to dangle so helplessly for a predatory alien race to take advantage of. I know there is some sort of astral tampering, some other dimensional mischief going on, but I simply can't accept that our creator would allow it to such an extent that our very souls become bait in some kind of sick alien game. Truthfully, I have to believe that, as to believe otherwise might cause an existential crisis. I think a man without some sort of notion of a benevolent God is a man who is flailing in the spiritual wind, so to speak. In other words, why even carry on if every step in the evolution of my spirit involves some sort of weird alien challenge? I'm not even interested in participating in that type of game. It reduces God and existence to an MTV reality show: keep passing endless malevolent alien challenges and you win Nirvana! Hooray!

Sorry man, I just can't accept that. I find it impossible to believe that a compassionate, brilliant God would arrange things that way. It seems so backwards.

My 2 cents, with respect.

Although I truly understant your views, I Wonder: should we stop adressing certain topics because it does arise fear in some of us? In that case, most of Avalon would stop. But not only this, ISN'T IT WHAT HAPPENED UP TO NOW IN SOCIETY. CONTROLLED FEAR CREASTION?

Aren't we able to go through our fears because we have not learned the process yet??? And as long as we don't we are susceptible to control through fear.

Yes, such topics may trigger fear in some but should they be avoided????

Personally I think it is the best way to evolve, going through our fears.

" but I simply can't accept that our creator would allow it to such an extent that our very souls become bait in some kind of sick alien game. Truthfully, I have to believe that, as to believe otherwise might cause an existential crisis. I think a man without some sort of notion of a benevolent God is a man who is flailing in the spiritual wind,"

I do think the same here, but seen from another perspective. HAVE TO BELIEVE and EXISTENTIAL CRISIS seem to the the most important concepts here. When our beliefs are shaken to the core, we end up in existential crisis. This is precisely what Learning life is about in my view. Why refuse the process?? These same crisis are those pushing us towards the truth and probably God.

Now, yes, a benevolent God or Creator has to be behind this all, as a parent, he knows we will go through harship in order to learn the art of creation. It is only during the crisis that we doubt.

The greatest crisis being, for me, to have to confront true evil, because it asks from me to confront myself to the deepest and grow strenght. This maybe the school I am in.

Is the white light a reflection of true evil to keep us redoing our homework again and again? May be? Is there something else? May be, and maybe not.

But I have to look at it without fear, whatever the end result maybe.

Thank you Bruno and Jake, your posts allowed me to go further in.

[Hervé]

Amzer, your post only deals with people's consciousness while they are in the body and how they can be fooled, tricked and be manipulated. That underscores the importance of taking charge of your own beingness, your own awareness. One must prepare for the eventual separation from the body consciousness because it is inevitable. Awareness out of body is quite different from being in the body. One learns what those differences are by preparing your way while still living in physicality.

Your example shows how one can be manipulated by something outside of you. How powerful can you become by going within your own beingness and taking charge? How powerful can one become by strengthening your own spiritual connection to Source to its maximum degree? Maybe it's time to find out. One does after all, have the ability to "program" yourself, which if properly done through your own spiritual connections, I believe would overcome any programs installed by any alien.

[...]

???





Robert Morningsky is right, pay no attention to the light "outside" of you. If you have done your own spiritual homework, you will "follow" your own. You will know where you are going on your own because you will have accepted complete responsibility for yourself and claimed sovereignty for yourself. You will find your way to the godhead if that is your purest intent.

[...]

Yep! Sure...

... well, except in the case when that "guiding" light/hunch/gut feeling is a death-trigerred post life hypnotic suggestion to report directly back to implant station # 13...

Hence, I totally agree that one better ascertains one's sovereignty in all the nooks and crannies of one's being :)



[...]

As for implanting... it's a little more advanced than "Brain heterodyining (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?56002-Must-Read-The-Matrix-Deciphered-by-Dr-Robert-Duncan)/entrainment" (but same principle) with "Bodies in pawn":

p. 52, R&D vol. 11
A theta (Ɵ) body [i.e. a disembodied being] can be hypnotized, can be put to sleep, can go to sleep, can be made to forget, can be given hypnotic suggestions, can be lowered on the Tone Scale, raised on the Tone Scale, can have its identity blotted out. In Fac One, for instance, the waves that are hitting a MEST body and piling up, but where they are really piling up is against the outer shell of the theta body. And that MEST body is long dead and you're no longer even vaguely connected with the somatic evolutionary line of those bodies you had in Fac One, but you're still packing this with the theta body and it's still aberrative.

P. 53
In other words, the theta body can be aberrated by electronic fields, by drugs, by other contact against the MEST body or against itself. It can be handled, actually, when it's by itself, only with heavy electronic fields. Nothing can hit it.

A body in pawn utilizes not the thetan but ridges (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-Ron-s-Org-Planet-Earth.-Jim-and-the-Future&p=678067&viewfull=1#post678067). They'll take a thetan and they'll build up ridges; and these ridges (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-Ron-s-Org-Planet-Earth.-Jim-and-the-Future&p=678067&viewfull=1#post678067) will act like personalities, and because their wavelength is known, they can be monitored. [same way "Satanic" cults (e.g. "Skull & Bones (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?26195-POLICE-STATE-How-it-came-about-in-the-US-of-A)") and CIA MKultra manufactured "sleepers" and other multiple personalities in their subjects]

So you'll very often run into entities. And there are a certain number of entities and they're in a certain order and so on, and they act like beings in a person, but they are not beings. And you want to know how to get rid of an entity. [see book "What to Audit" = Scientology, A History of Man]

How do you get rid of an entity? You simply find out where that entity is located in the body geographically. Your next step is to find out where the entity is stuck on the Time Track[I] [psycho]. And you'll find out that it's some sort of an incident having to do with a body in pawn, it'll be a between-lives implant; it'll be something on this order.

It may be that you will find that the person during an operation has suddenly conceived that he is dead, has reported back in [the terminus of the "white light tunnel" reported by NDEs' experiencers who are told to "go back"]; he obviously was not dead, and what they did was layout one of his ridges - which he took right along with him, of course - lay onto one of his ridges the fact that he mustn't know and mustn't tell.

Very often, when he appeared back in a body with the violence of pain of an accident or something of this sort, he killed the body in pawn to which he was very nebulously attached while he was here.

Mars: They're guilty of tremendous overt acts themselves. They've got a holding operation; they have no method of attacks. They have been influencing via the mind for so long that they've actually lost initiative to do anything else. Some guard has been walking past some cell where there's a body in pawn, and all of a sudden this body stirs. Bodies are not supposed to do that. So he says: "Oh oh, somebody just died." But it doesn't stir the way a body stirs when it just died. Probably a few years ago they said: "Oh, some damn hypnotist... Nobody will believe him anyway." They didn't do too much about it. But that's not the case here in the last year or so. They've been fascinated.

You'll find an occasional body in pawn from the 5th Invader Force and when you do, it'll be on a different proposition because it's monitored by consent; the guy is here with a comm line set up. And he's almost in a state of knowingness concerning exactly where he came from and what he's doing. Bodies in pawn both on Mars and on Venus are monitored electronically.

You can take a preclear and coax him to knock off a body in pawn. It's really not much of a shock because, you see, he's not in that body. He's just nebulously monitored by that body, because somebody can walk in, stir up the body, give the body a command, and he himself will perceive the command. This is a relay system of ridges [like radio transmitters].

Now, if you get rid of one of those things, run out the point where the ridge is stuck on the time track. You just run it out as an incident. You ask the preclear to move into that area of his body and push on through the incident as though it happened to him. And he will tell you in a moment or two: "But this didn't happen to me; this is just lying there." Up to that time he thought it happened to him. It didn't really. What it was, was a facsimile laid down on one of his ridges. And you will find that as many as 5 or more bodies in pawn are being held here and there throughout the universe for one preclear.

As far as a theta being very badly implanted is concerned, how can you implant an energy unit? It's a question in which you should be awfully interested. Because you can't. You can give it some ridges, but it can always move out from amongst these ridges.

And merely as an aside, in order to protect your preclear against suddenly having nightmares or something of the sort - regardless of whether you believe it or not or place any credence in it or not - just encourage him to knock off those bodies that he has that are extra bodies elsewhere. It's not that it's merely upsetting to the Martian's regime; it is not that it is very effective in restoring his health, but you certainly cannot expect an individual who is pinned down someplace and can be put under pain from a remote distance, to become clear. So, just encourage him to knock them off. All they do is use the phenomenon of ridges you see, and they throw a facsimile into play on that ridge, and the person can be monitored.

Why would "out-of-body" beings run into "ghosts" stuck in some portion of their former "lives?" That, too, is a matter of "belief" and created reality.

The "by way of analogy" is there because why in all hells and heavens would someone, just extirpated from a dead body, report trustfully to its designated implant station?

As exemplified in the above quote there is nothing disagreeing with a complete sovereign state in which every nooks and crannies of one's being has been cleanse of these made-up beliefs. That state, however makes it difficult to understand that many others are totally mired in that other state in which beings are influenced by their own "ridges"/unconscious implants which are also manipulated by "others."

Hence, how many abductees do actually recall their abductions? Not that many, I gathered, yet these abductions for most of them are dealing with the "theta body" which is the one being manipulated, implanted, electronically zapped, etc, to the point that the physical body left on earth will display various bruises, etc.

Anyway, for what it's worth, I am missing nothing of your point of view nor of a W-R-1's as it is indeed a way out. However, for some of us, it's a long way out and includes not falling into white light traps once more :)

[seeker/reader]

To create a "meme" which states "do not go towards the light" because it is a trap by the evil Archon's to recycle you into their prison planet so that they can continue to vampire your energy, and they are creating holograms in the astral planes to trick you into thinking and believing and feeling that the white light is your return to source! Don't do it, I tell ya!

Does this make you feel loving or fearful?

Aren't the Archon's masters of HAL, simulation? Isn't their goal to deviate humanity from our true PATH? So, I wouldn't put it past the Demiurge to distort/corrupt our understanding of the afterlife and to simulate/distort/corrupt/deviate us on our AFTERLIFE PATH as well.

Knowing that possibility doesn't make me fearful, it broadens my understanding and empowers me.

[Delight]

This matrix seems like a strange place and science tells me it is "illusion". There is nothing I ever found that seems a cure for the ills without some sort of blowback that kept things turning. The "Bus-i-ness" is just what happens.

The underlying dilemma posed by "should one or should one not " is to me related to a whole condition that I think many people have reached. "I don't know what to do now?"
IMO, wherever one is *now* in the state one is in, gets projected.
There is an emphasis in "what is right and what is wrong for...."
There is loss of faith for many that anything we ever have learned is possibly lastingly helpful to know.
The confusion is reflected in so many intellectual abstract questions and emotions too. "Where is the truth?" the man asks as he wanders in an empty marketplace.

IMO what we are experiencing is like the "end of the internet", the bankruptcy of the "Alter ego" and it is a personal crisis of the whole of us.
Also, it seems there is pressure on the crisis so it is somewhat personally explosive.

This is what the whole being craves...a world beyond the busy reverberation. IMO this reverberation is what feels like fighting and meddling and is not sufficient. There is some "where" IMO we have never been before because we started on a path of a "world of doing 24/7/365 to create" and none of the formulas were what we expected might evolve.

So many are in this chaos of dissatisfaction.

Lets just make up a Typical "person". All along living on the planet, everything is concerned with doing. The world is full of doings: reproducing the world means we have to populate it, manage it, withstand the "weather", build, repair, tear down, build again.

At one point we feel "I want to do this myself" as an independent being.

1. The person might study what others have been doing to get a clue about the process.
2.The person might select a menu or make up a set of "directions" as a personal strategy.
3.Plans are made and doing something feels "right". One gets feedback according to the selected ideas.
4. One may be satisfied by doing all the choices one has selected from what is observed for a long time.

No strategy will work very long because duality is a pendulum that swings from pole to pole. Nothing "works" for very long. One cannot make plans that stick. One is seemingly ultimately disappointed very much by ALL possible selections. This disillusionment seems a curse "meted out by unreasonable gods". Confronted by seeming hopelessness that one can do anything "well" leads to a crisis.

The person might just constrict into "paralysis" and become like a catatonic (or a walking zombie all empty) and in deep isolation and grief just implode.
One perhaps dies and starts over from the unresolvable insanity one sees as one's life? But one takes oneself as consciousness and has to deal with the old unresolved IMO. A pattern is set from the past.

3. Is that ALL? The being is so curious. In longing, a person might imagine that there is an inner guidance and do something about contacting that source of information. This is not easy and is scary because it is unknown.

IF information is sought within, one might start hearing all kinds of voices too from fragmented aspects and feel still seem lost and splintered.

IMO the biggest shift is from faith in an external "anything solid" to disillusionment and then necessary involvement in our own tumultuous "stuff".

Once one has become utterly renouncing of the possibility of doing anything really with the world as is, one is still faced by the inner "turmoil". One might sense one has gone mad by all the inner contradiction.

IMO this is what karma is really about "We Were Doing Something...." We make the decisions even to believe in the permanence and the rightness/wrongness of our behavior.

For a long time we are committed to "doing something ELSE to make up for what was done". One extreme wants to balance another in "accomplishment". It can never end. That may be what seems like imprisonment?

Or if one changes it around to not needing justice, maybe one can just enjoy the temporary swings of life experience?

The inner turmoil we are just now facing needs a LOT of compassion towards the self. I think forgiveness is really the only sane choice. We can approach the accumulated "doingness" differently than "justice". We can release it to the clear light. Ongoing forgiveness. Keep nothing at the end of a day.

Self directed compassion dissolves the accretion of the ideas. One is innocent. IMO when one is innocent, one does not have the same "field" experience. It is sort of energetic science IMO.

I just saw a movie that talked about Milarepa. http://youtu.be/e-Pcv72zwKY

The story is simple. Milarepa was charged with responsibility for righting a wrong in his family. He was challenged by evil "doers": "If you are many form an army. If you are few become sorcerers" to fight. He was just himself and became a sorcerer. Cursing the injustice and retaliating left a bad taste. He went looking for something beyond this menu. IMO he lost his confusion and became what is sought beyond all the offerings of the matrix.

I hope the clearing and peace yields release of all so the needs for Busy is resolved in me.
In facing the clear, IMO it is still my own thought forms that "look like" something important? IMO unfinished "Bus-i-ness" is the confusing ANYWHERE.

[NancyV]

We always have a choice to accept an experience as empowering, expanding and as a valuable learning process or to consider ourselves a helpless victim. I have found this to be true in the physical and in many years of interacting with beings/souls on all the dimensions I've passed through and experienced up to the Source and merging with the Source. I have said that the light CAN be a trap for those who choose to be trapped. But it is a trap that feels like heaven to many and hell to those who feel they deserve to suffer. Trap may be the wrong word to use since we generally have a negative connotation of the concept of a trap. It could instead be described as a natural mechanism that allows souls to be where they belong, where their vibratory level resonates with, and to move on once they gain full sovereignty, which they always have access to at any time they decide to become totally sovereign.

Once I became completely empowered/sovereign, which took a couple of months of sometimes very scary experiences in my nightly out of body travels (beginning in 1980 while living in Hawaii), I was able to inhabit any dimension without being kept there by fear of or attraction to any other being (like a being playing at being a god) or any degree of light. I had no fear and I had full access to Love. At that point I could either participate in games, which is how I see the entire creation - as one huge game - or I could merge with souls, demonic beings, gods, younger or weaker souls who have not yet gained the full power of love and we would become ONE. I engaged in a lot of merging in every dimension up to merging with Source, then would sometimes immediately go back to my body, or come back into the Creation through the increasingly lower vibrational dimensions.

I got to experience both fear and bliss in my out of body trips for the first couple of months of my travels. That was a totally valuable experience because it was during the MOST fearful experience of being dragged by a hugely powerful demonic being into what looked and felt like the fires of hells that I finally surrendered to love/God/Source and became totally empowered. After acquiring the power of love I no longer was able to be controlled, intimidated, attracted or influenced by any other being. I was able to merge with any being that attempted to influence me in any way if I chose to do so. Merging with another makes us both one and in each merging I became more of ME. At the Source level I am merged with ALL and it is still ME. I would think that would be how everyone feels but I'm certainly not going to proclaim that I know everything for everyone and sure as hell don't want to be anyone's guru or teacher in this particular body and life. LOL

Seven years of constant out of body travel was enough for me. I decided to live out my life without deliberately leaving my body or merging with Source. I knew I would resume the fun and bliss when I die. Since I am now 66 I'm getting a bit excited that I'm getting closer to death! :amen:

It was very difficult to NOT leave my body and quite a few times I would spontaneously leave and have some fun. But staying in my body allowed me to develop some fun abilities while "awake". I could see UFO's, demons, ghosts, ET's....all kinds of interesting things. I also had occasions of hearing animals, plants and the earth itself talk. When I traveled to places like Peru, Sedona, New Mexico, Mexico, Columbia, Brazil and a several other places there were apparently "portals" where I fell through to another dimension/time...and then came back. It was usually at some high vibrational place like Anasazi, Mayan or Incan ruins. These dimensions were different than the astral and higher vibrational dimensions I experienced out of body.

I also had a year of intense and constant kundalini burning, which was hellaciously
uncomfortable.....but fun! At times I thought I would burn up in a spontaneous human combustion way. I wonder if spontaneous human combustion is caused by someone's kundalini burning out of control all of a sudden?

SO... The light..... I figure it can be awesome, blissful, scary, a trap, a lesson, a tool of manipulation, LOVE, in fact LIGHT is everything. Light is energy. Light is love. Light is Source and creates the Creation. If one chooses to fear, one will learn the wonderful lessons that fear has for us. It is pushing us towards love because it feels so crappy and scary that we want desperately to escape the fear. Whether or not aliens, demonic beings or self appointed gods etc. use fear or varying degrees of light to attract or trap a soul is really immaterial. We can always extricate ourselves at any time that we embrace our creative powers and our existence as a fully empowered and sovereign being of Love.

I think the Creation is perfect as it is. It contains the exact right games and lessons for us to have fun and then to return to being aware that we are always Source. The pain and suffering we think should be eradicated are actually a perfect part of the entire mechanism of Source, Creation, and returning to awareness of being Source.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

I think the Creation is perfect as it is. It contains the exact right games and lessons for us to have fun and then to return to being aware that we are always Source. The pain and suffering we think should be eradicated are actually a perfect part of the entire mechanism of Source, Creation, and returning to awareness of being Source.

My gut feeling is in agreement. Creation is perfect as it is. I'd love to have OBE's, explore and verify, but some part of me will not let me out, or remember being out.

Maybe I need to be more loving to make OBE's happen. In a recent dream, as a UFO was overhead, some part of me (that is unfamiliar to my conscious mind) said to the occupants "If you kill me or hurt me, when I am more powerful, I will hunt you down." Just an example that surprised me.

[Finefeather]

post removed.

[Zampano]

Thanks NancyV

This is one of the most valueable and encouraging posts I have seen here on Avalon-you pretty much summed it. Thanks a lot.


Trap may be the wrong word to use since we generally have a negative connotation of the concept of a trap. It could instead be described as a natural mechanism that allows souls to be where they belong, where their vibratory level resonates with, and to move on once they gain full sovereignty, which they always have access to at any time they decide to become totally sovereign.


I also had a year of intense and constant kundalini burning, which was hellaciously
uncomfortable.....but fun! At times I thought I would burn up in a spontaneous human combustion way. I wonder if spontaneous human combustion is caused by someone's kundalini burning out of control all of a sudden?

I guy contacted me via mail and he wanted to help on my little farm and we talked and he had a profound kundalini experience. Way too much energy and at one point he said, I had the choice to go through the door that he was all light. Light-fire. During this enlightenment episode, he was truly connected with source and acted the best way how it suited to him-or whatever was left ;-)


SO... The light..... I figure it can be awesome, blissful, scary, a trap, a lesson, a tool of manipulation, LOVE, in fact LIGHT is everything. Light is energy. Light is love. Light is Source and creates the Creation. If one chooses to fear, one will learn the wonderful lessons that fear has for us

I think as such, you are always able to choose in what direction you wanna go.

[greybeard]

Now that someone has changed the name of this thread, do I need to delete my post no 17?... because it refers directly to Simon Parkes and I do not want it to be seen as if I am singling him out in a general discussion.

Can one of the admin guys or gals please delete that post

Thanks
Ray

Hi Ray
I deleted my reference to the person in several posts.
You can do that yourself.
In many ways the thread was never about a person but about what was said--re opening post.

Love chris

[Finefeather]

Now that someone has changed the name of this thread, do I need to delete my post no 17?... because it refers directly to Simon Parkes and I do not want it to be seen as if I am singling him out in a general discussion.

Can one of the admin guys or gals please delete that post

Thanks
Ray

Hi Ray
I deleted my reference to the person in several posts.
You can do that yourself.
In many ways the thread was never about a person but about what was said--re opening post.

Love chris
Thanks Chris I'll do that.
Take care
Ray

[NancyV]

I think the Creation is perfect as it is. It contains the exact right games and lessons for us to have fun and then to return to being aware that we are always Source. The pain and suffering we think should be eradicated are actually a perfect part of the entire mechanism of Source, Creation, and returning to awareness of being Source.

My gut feeling is in agreement. Creation is perfect as it is. I'd love to have OBE's, explore and verify, but some part of me will not let me out, or remember being out.

Maybe I need to be more loving to make OBE's happen. In a recent dream, as a UFO was overhead, some part of me (that is unfamiliar to my conscious mind) said to the occupants "If you kill me or hurt me, when I am more powerful, I will hunt you down." Just an example that surprised me.
I don't think you need to be more "loving" to make OBE's happen, Ron. If that was a requirement I never would have made it since I can be a really nasty bitch and would never give up that ability. LOL...Using threats to a being who understands threats is a convenient and effective tool. You should hear me cussing at certain entities! Speaking in a language and using an energy that beings understand is not unloving. Basically I don't consider anyone or any behavior to not be part of the love (ultimately) but I will fight what I perceive to be evil or threatening in the most effective way that will defeat them, depending on what vibrational dimension I'm aware of being in. Killing really doesn't kill, it just removes them to another place, in my opinion of course.

I don't know why some people can more easily leave their bodies and others can't or don't. It is probably a choice or belief. I know it took me totally dedicated and focused commitment to a meditation method, and I think any method that one concentrates on could work if it is right for you. Please don't give up your macho ways! I very much appreciate strong men and even if they are at times very nasty it doesn't make them unloving. You are perfect as you are.
:)

[NancyV]

post removed.

Hi Ray!

In response to your removed post I'd like to ask you if you can describe Source....what it is, where it is, where we go when we merge with Source. I sure can't describe it! It seems to me that we always ARE Source but our human minds are not capable of feeling it so we feel we are separated. "Traveling to Source" just feels to me like increasing my vibrational frequency to a faster and faster or higher vibration until I merge with all that is or become aware that I AM all that is. At that point nothing really matters and there is no one who needs any explanations or definitions. It's difficult to put things into words that satisfy our curiosity about these experiences. I use the word Source or God but I prefer Source since there seem to be many separated beings who like to play at being a lesser god.

Hearing some of your experiences over the last year or two gives me the impression that you know exactly what I'm talking about. You may put it in your own words and I may put it in mine but I am certain we both know Source very well. I'm not sure why you deleted your post and it may be rude of me to address it (but I guess I don't mind being rude!). LOL...I love you Ray and I know that you are an angel who helps so many souls. You are much more of an angel than I am but I do so love being who I am and you being who you are!
:kiss:

[Finefeather]

We are all free...from the day we were born, we were free...we will always be free...we just need to realise it...and there is actually no work to be done...just realisation.

When we think we are trapped and been manipulated...we will be trapped and manipulated...

Then I hear those who say "but just look around and see how we are trapped and manipulated"...and I hear those who have trapped and manipulated themselves.

Realisation comes from knowledge of life...manipulation comes from ignorance of life.

Ignorance is a word we all want to run away from...we want to hide so no one can see the ignorance in us...we do not like been called ignorant...how many of us can admit to being ignorant?

Ignorance is not a bad word...something we should be embarrassed about...we are all ignorant, and all it is, is the lack of the information, or knowledge, which is required in our consciousness to enable us to realise the reality we find ourselves in...so...in ignorance, we end up with a distorted sense of reality...an incomplete sense of reality...because we do not have all the knowledge.

This leads us to the realisation of a self created limited reality...and we end up with the old saying...”we all create our own reality”. So, because we are ignorant, we come to the conclusion that we are trapped and manipulated...because we have no idea what the real reality is all about.

The entire goal and plan of anyone who wishes to maintain power, and thus control over another is to keep a person ignorant...
This perceived ignorance, by the 'controlled', is what keeps the 'controlled' searching for something...but what do they go out and search for?

They search for that something which the 'controller' has...because in their ignorant state, it is this knowledge which they seek...because it is this knowledge which they think is needed to set them free...the knowledge of the 'controller'.

So, we think that by knowing what the 'controller' knows we will no longer be controlled and manipulated.

But here lies the biggest secret: All that the 'controllers' really know, is how to keep their idea of knowledge from us...they have no idea what the real knowledge is...because if they knew, they would not be 'controlling' us...but would be seeking unity with us and preaching unconditional love.

The 'controllers' are not capable of knowing themselves because they are just as ignorant as the 'controlled'...the only thing they have learnt better than the 'controlled' is that if they are in front of the pack you can more easily pretend to be knowledgeable to those who lag behind.

So in reality...all we need to do is to realise that the 'controller' and the 'controlled' are one and the same thing...because without a 'controller' there will be no 'controlled'...and without the 'controlled' there can be no 'controller'.

All it takes is realisation.

Take care
Ray

[gripreaper]

We always have a choice to accept an experience as empowering, expanding and as a valuable learning process or to consider ourselves a helpless victim.

I think the Creation is perfect as it is. It contains the exact right games and lessons for us to have fun and then to return to being aware that we are always Source. The pain and suffering we think should be eradicated are actually a perfect part of the entire mechanism of Source, Creation, and returning to awareness of being Source.

Thanks NancyV. Great to have you chime in on this subject. Good to see you around. Your post I've excerpted here is most excellent. I hope everyone interested in this subject sees it and reads it.

[Maunagarjana]

My thoughts? Read the Law of One books. The reason Ra gives for why we don't remember our past lives is because there is a memory veil in place. It was a decision of the Logos to implement this and not some negative ET technology or implants or whatever. It's just a feature of life in third density on Earth. If you think you've got a better view of the situation than a sixth density social memory complex....have fun with that.

[svein magne]

do not go into the light ,,, reely ???

[Synchronicity]

If we came in with all of our memories what would be the point of bothering to live this life at all? Seems to me the point is living the life with vague or no memories, but with that same core that is here to do something and learn something, to experience something, and then to move on. Sometimes we start remembering as we go and some come in with more memory, but if we had total recall it would be hard to even focus. I know for myself if I start focusing on what was I am not living in the present and doing what I am supposed to be doing here and now. One way to find a bit of balance is to learn about the purpose for this life and the challenges we are here to meet, get the parts back that may be been lost over this life or others, and go back to find answers to particular issues that are hard to resolve. That is helpful for living in the present with enough knowledge of past and purpose to live a present, but successful life.

[AngelArmy]

do not go into the light ,,, reely ???

I know hey like blown my mind at least - never thought Id hear that ever

[Hervé]

If we came in with all of our memories what would be the point of bothering to live this life at all?

[...]

My guess is that we wouldn't waste years relearning what the heck 2+2 equals to...
nor relearning grammar or vocabulary or different language or Euclid, Pythagoras, Newton, Maxwell, Tesla, etc...

Nor would we need to (re-)learn about our neighbors -- planetary or extraterrestrial... for we would remember lives spent as male, female, Taoist, Buddhist, Islamist, Sufist, Zoroastrian, Satanist, Gnostic, Mysticist, sorcerer, magician, faery, cop, robber, Jews, Sumerian, Atlantean, Lemurian, Pleidian, Orionian, Arcturian, Andromedan, Draconian, Mantid, etc... what would that do for peace? Understanding? Compassion?

[outerheaven]

My thoughts? Read the Law of One books. The reason Ra gives for why we don't remember our past lives is because there is a memory veil in place. It was a decision of the Logos to implement this and not some negative ET technology or implants or whatever. It's just a feature of life in third density on Earth. If you think you've got a better view of the situation than a sixth density social memory complex....have fun with that.

I love the Law of One books, and I think they offer a tremendous, positively-oriented moral and ideological compass to help guide your actions.

But you're appealing to authority here. As much as I want the Ra material to be 100% legitimate, I don't know if it is. Even if it is truly channeled material and not a hoax -- Ra speaks of how negatively-oriented entities can hijack a channel, and influence an entity seeking service to others (STO), by manipulating them into relaying a service to self (STS) message disguised as STO. Thus, in the Ra material, we are given a reason to very closely scrutinize the given information.

All sides of this discussion -- heck, every discussion, ever -- have to get past this fundamental roadblock/fallacy of appealing to authority.

As for the continuing discussion in this thread ...

IMO, we can break this question down into 2 possible questions:

1) whether the white light is a "true" divine phenomenon, whereby one experiences Source/One/whatever and reincarnates if it must or chooses to do so;
2) whether the white light is a false phenomenon, and it is part of an alien implanting scenario whereby one's soul memory is wiped and one must continue to reincarnate until one can stop this process.

(Correct me if I'm wrong, but the crowd subscribing to point #2 will also tell you that the implanting aliens are also implanted and thus part of the Matrix -- and therefore another part of the illusion that makes up our reality.)

I see very little difference between these scenarios except the tone in which the information is relayed. One is positive, one is negative. The former has a feeling of confident submission to the process ... whereas the latter has a sort of rushed urgency to figure things out before it's too late and the cycle restarts.

This is a new twist on a fundamental question that humanity has asked itself: who are we, where did we come from, and where are we going when we die. It's understandable that we should have a lot of anxiety about it.

Either way, we're here with very little to no recall of past lives. I feel comfortable stating that I am here, and possibly may continue to keep returning here, until I no longer need to do so. Whether that means learning all my life lessons, or realizing that aliens have hijacked my soul and need to learn methods of regaining control. (Honestly I'd speculate that both explanations are probably far too short-sighted and do not even begin to grasp the 'true' truth, which we are not capable of understanding!)

But again I state: I do not fear this process. All things will return to one, whatever path they may take.

[Realeyes]

For the last three hours I have attempted to describe what ‘Source’ means to me; a valid question that Fine Feather brought up yesterday. It is quite likely we are all using the same word yet meaning something totally different. I am personally finding language to be so limiting when attempting to define higher aspects of Consciousness.

Nancy you did a fine job in your description – thank you. This is not an easy exercise to define as I have just found out myself using the medium of ‘words’. I too noticed Fine Feather deleted his valid question shortly after writing it, I do not know his reasons as to why, yet do think it is a great question to ask oneself and purposeful for each of us to define within ourselves our own meaning. I too would very much appreciate Fine Feather’s definitions of ‘Source’; that is if he is willing to do so. If he does, I hope he can find better words than my limited vocabulary.

For myself, I usually experience what I call ‘Source’ either in out of body experiences or Kundalini rising practices. Unfortunately I do not see sign posts stating where exactly I am, so for myself I observe the distinct levels of conscious awareness ‘changes’ within myself , there is quite a difference from one Plane to the next Plane; (also each Plane has many dimensions within it). It has taken me many decades to piece together some of what I write below.

I thought it may be helpful for my own defining (and perhaps for others too) if I start several Conscious Planes ‘below’ what I deem as ‘Source’. And quite possibly what I am ‘accepting as Source’ in this particular Triad maybe just the very start of something potentially far bigger that I have yet to contemplate, experience and realise – as I remind myself this is a journey into Eternity. So please take what I write below as just being my own subjective truth of what I have had glimpses/moments of experiencing. Also I am describing in the briefest of terms the Planes; they are so much more than this where one could spend tens of thousands of years joyfully exploring!

In out of body ‘travel’ or ‘arriving’ I can experience this as ‘going somewhere’ but really I am going ‘within self’ into my inner nucleus – so although I can experience movement or force while travelling that feels very real - in truth there really is no movement, rather raising frequencies shifting my observer conscious awareness into deeper levels of Self. (I can see already my sentences are going to seem full of contradictions and paradoxes as I attempt to describe existences of Self in Planes so very different to 3D Time/Space – lol)


***

Journeying towards Source
Skipping past the ‘polarity planes’ of Hertzian, Inferred, Visible Light - then through a void space, I enter what I call Bridge Consciousness that is Neutral in nature and the Ultraviolet blue Plane - reengaging with the Soul and is the Plane of Unconditional Love. When I am BEing the centrral observer of Soul, I see multitudes of rays of simultaneous incarnations around me (past, present, future), it’s like being the centre of a star with all its rays. It is here I re-remember all my "I's" that I have been (incarnations).

Shifting into another void space, I arrive at Super Consciousness (X-Ray) Soul & Spirit Plane often called Paradise; wondrous music plays, golden light, life forms and colours etc are breathtaking! This is where I experience an ‘us-ness or we-ness’ conscious awareness, now becoming less ‘form’ (no longer attached to any body identity form yet can unfold into a form whenever I choose) I prefer to be an orb of consciousness. Here I am re-remembering and beholding ‘us-ness/we-ness’ consciousness, and all the vast creations we participate in giving unconditional love. I am this expanding conscious awareness yet I am not ‘gigantic in size like a universe’ (oh god another paradox) I am really very, very tiny like a subatomic particle (or something like that) that is interconnected.

Shifting within again, into the Planes of Hyper Consciousness and also into Ultra Consciousness (Gamma and beyond) this is the Spirit Planes of Knowingness and Pure Thought Light. This re-awakens a deeper depth of Unity Oneness Consciousness of ALL LIFE in this Triad of Creation - yet within this oneness I keep my uniqueness at the same time (I know another paradox; next paragraph brings some sense to this). The all embracing love, celebration and joy and creational conscious awareness in these two Planes are beyond Earthly description. At some point during my ‘observer shifting’ I can see below the shimmering golden/rose energy grids of Creation (part of the Source Field) where all those wondrous adventurous explorations of zillions of co-creator gods are exploring and creating in the multitudes of playgrounds. Up to this point and Planes just described, I am still the ‘journeyman’ a secondary conscious god spark mirror aspect of - my ‘wholeness/totality’ that is ‘Primary Consciousness’ the Self that eternally exists in Source and never left home. I am still in this Plane the journeyman/secondary consciousness traversing a soulful journey exploring this particular Triad of Creation of involution and now evolution.

Arriving to Source
Shifting within again my journeyman of secondary consciousness now wraps up all its realities as it lovingly brings all its unique wisdoms returning and ‘BEcoming at one’ again with ‘my’ Primary Consciousness; I could call this ‘My Great Spirit’ or ‘my god’, or ‘my source’. My own journeyman of experiences turned to wisdoms is what makes this unity of Self/co-creator god ‘unique’, (and everyone elses too due their unique journeys). My Primary Consciousness/god source is now deeper enriched and wiser via my journeyman’s exponential journey of redefining the wonders of all SELF can be in this Triad of Creation. (It is either this particular level with this reunion of 1st & 2nd consciousness becoming ONE, or the one next stage when one reaches Christos – not quite sure which it is, but suspect it is this particular level).

Shift within again and ‘my’ Primary Consciousness returns, merges with Prime Creator (God/Goddess/Source/Isness, whatever one wishes to term it) that is the totality of unconditional LOVE and Conscious life force Creation that IS in Everything, an Isness ongoingness into Forever.

(Now I am unsure if Prime Creator of this Triad of creation ‘is’ or instead ‘exists within and part of’ the next part)

There is a Great beautiful dazzling alive black Void, like a great sea teaming with alive consciousness that contains all colours and light within this black void (paradox again), with full Knowingness, omnipresence, omniscient of all potentials yet no things materially – the ideas of Everything yet a Non-Thing all at the same time. I am not even sure what I am at this stage other than consciousness, perhaps a ‘consciously aware wave’? I ride in a seamless sea of wondrously expanding ALL knowingness – I have zero questions, queries, desires etc All is Known in this alive Isness oceans of Unity creative omnipresent Conscious Knowingness. Apologises this really is a Pitiful explanation; I just cannot find the words to even skim the surface of such all knowing wondrousness.

One thing I have observed is the moment I contemplate a knowingness that washes through me, the ‘act’ of contemplating takes me immediately to BEing my Primary Consciousness (no longer Prime Creator or the Great Void). When I am the Great Void the knowingness washes through me in waves, there is no contemplation because all is Known. Smile.


***

Well that’s my glimpses of many experiences exploring higher Planes of Consciousness – so far.... and maybe just the tip of the iceberg. When the time arrives when I realise and accept fully my Isness reuniting and merging with my own Primary Consciousness/God/Source....... my next step maybe to dive into the Prime Creator (God/Source) and explore what other great wonders there are to behold in the vastness of Eternity - smile. Until then...........

I have much work to do unravelling and remembering and reconnecting to the grand mysteries I call SELF and my Source. I will keep plodding onwards and upwards within myself cleaning up all my unfinished Earthly business and the other Planes of polarity unfinished business, owning the parts I have played and turning that purposefulness into evolving wisdom and greater conscious awareness, loving myself into life (wherever that may be) while reengaging in all that I BE.

So to return to the original question defining what is ‘Source’ in my personal meaning, it includes that which is Eternal, my primary consciousness; Prime Creator and the Great Void. And I so bless my secondary consciousness journeyman because it does all the leg work.

Much love to you all
Realeyes :hug:X
Namaste

Ps. The above has been a lifetime of inner work this end - I am fed up with forgetting this over and over every time I reincarnate, so doing all I can this end to keep my memories and knowledge I have learned so I can continue to build upon them and finally at some point 'arrive' to my Source with the job done. Then leap into the next..............!

:wizard::wizard::wizard:

[Finefeather]

I do apologise for deleting this post so here it is again...something I did must have gone wrong...:)


It seems like a lot of people use the term "Source" as if they have some knowledge about this thing.

I would like to invite those who use this word to explain it so I can get a better idea of what they think it is...because IMO it might shed some light on where you think you are heading when you say..."I merged with source" or "demand to go to source" or "go to source"

I have been away all day and will post my version tomorrow.
Thank you and Love you all
Ray

[Synchronicity]

If we came in with all of our memories what would be the point of bothering to live this life at all?

[...]

My guess is that we wouldn't waste years relearning what the heck 2+2 equals to...
nor relearning grammar or vocabulary or different language or Euclid, Pythagoras, Newton, Maxwell, Tesla, etc...

Nor would we need to (re-)learn about our neighbors -- planetary or extraterrestrial... for we would remember lives spent as male, female, Taoist, Buddhist, Islamist, Sufist, Zoroastrian, Satanist, Gnostic, Mysticist, sorcerer, magician, faery, cop, robber, Jews, Sumerian, Atlantean, Lemurian, Pleidian, Orionian, Arcturian, Andromedan, Draconian, Mantid, etc... what would that do for peace? Understanding? Compassion?

True, but then what? Live a whole life as the same person you were before? Perhaps in a different type of body? And what would we do with that knowledge? I'm not sure that living as a 15th century female being treated horribly in one country, but being born as a 21st century male in an affluent country would be the same experience as living as the female, then as the male with little or no memories. It would be nice to totally remember, I guess, but if we did wouldn't we know this was all just temporary and maybe not worth truly "living" the life we have right now?

If we were the male 100 years ago who was rich and educated for the time, but then a female treated badly, but we still remembered we were that male too and that it was all temporary, then would we truly experience the hopelessness and sense of degradation and truly experience and learn? Does seem the world would be a nicer place, but maybe not for everyone. Maybe some might stay what they were and still want to fight or conquer or machinate behind the scenes, but get even better at it? Interesting thought... seems so far that if the choice is made to come back in there is often a memory suppression, at least temporarily. Hmm...that would be a different world. I'm glad you said that since it is definitely food for thought.

[greybeard]

Source for me is that which is everything--both form and formless and neither.
Beyond all understanding--yet is discoverable because Ultimately it is Self.
Fair enough I am paraphrasing Ramana Maharsi, Nasargadatta various other enlightened souls and the Agamas.

Translations from Agamas.
Atma Sakashatkara (all comprehensive knowledge)


26. There is no greater blessing anywhere
Than the gaining of the Self
Meditate ever on the Self. He who is the Self,
Is indeed the one all-pervasive Supreme Self-
be aware of this.

50. A lamp shines, destroying darkness, with its light.
So too destroying the enveloping darkness arising from
inexplicable ignorance.
The Self the pure light of knowledge , shines.
That's from the collected works of Ramana Maharshi.

My own experience is a spontaneously awakened Kundalini.
There are also states of bliss from time to time that come unasked--not in meditation.
Rarely there is movement in the heart cave--this can be felt externally with the hand but the movement is internal --a couple of centimetres to the right
of centre --level with the physical heart.

Chris

[Delight]

If we came in with all of our memories what would be the point of bothering to live this life at all?

[...]

My guess is that we wouldn't waste years relearning what the heck 2+2 equals to...
nor relearning grammar or vocabulary or different language or Euclid, Pythagoras, Newton, Maxwell, Tesla, etc...

Nor would we need to (re-)learn about our neighbors -- planetary or extraterrestrial... for we would remember lives spent as male, female, Taoist, Buddhist, Islamist, Sufist, Zoroastrian, Satanist, Gnostic, Mysticist, sorcerer, magician, faery, cop, robber, Jews, Sumerian, Atlantean, Lemurian, Pleidian, Orionian, Arcturian, Andromedan, Draconian, Mantid, etc... what would that do for peace? Understanding? Compassion?

True, but then what? Live a whole life as the same person you were before? Perhaps in a different type of body? And what would we do with that knowledge? I'm not sure that living as a 15th century female being treated horribly in one country, but being born as a 21st century male in an affluent country would be the same experience as living as the female, then as the male with little or no memories. It would be nice to totally remember, I guess, but if we did wouldn't we know this was all just temporary and maybe not worth truly "living" the life we have right now?

If we were the male 100 years ago who was rich and educated for the time, but then a female treated badly, but we still remembered we were that male too and that it was all temporary, then would we truly experience the hopelessness and sense of degradation and truly experience and learn? Does seem the world would be a nicer place, but maybe not for everyone. Maybe some might stay what they were and still want to fight or conquer or machinate behind the scenes, but get even better at it? Interesting thought... seems so far that if the choice is made to come back in there is often a memory suppression, at least temporarily. Hmm...that would be a different world. I'm glad you said that since it is definitely food for thought.


I believe that all of this IS a game. The collective mind is playing it. It doesn't matter how deep we go into various presentations, it will be the same game.
The leap of faith in jumping into the game is that one can keep one's wits about oneself perhaps? It is a collective game. But it is not all that is...it's just a game.

When one knows WHO I AM, one takes a different POV. One sees themes, a larger picture...not just scenes. One is not into extra innings in the ball play just to extend the time of play. It is true that one may want to just get to the "end" but that is so we can do something else. What that IS must be out of the game arena. One walks through the door. It is unknown what is out "there". But if one is the creator of the "games", that is OK. One can go home and may have inspiration when quiet.

IMO the big leap of the collective is arising out of the creators' shared boredom. It is so less interesting now. This game of all the roles we exchange in relationship has many fed up. It's another Sunday and another day and I have been everyone I know. Yawn, I think I will just have to go see the clear light and refresh.

I am editing for clarity...
I am not saying that one would like to die because the clear light is here now. In its embrace lies genius. But the genius may not be appreciated by the game so one plays solitaire at times. Also, one is just very accepting of every moment "here' as the light refreshes constantly.

[Shane]

For the last three hours I have attempted to describe what ‘Source’ means to me; a valid question that Fine Feather brought up yesterday. It is quite likely we are all using the same word yet meaning something totally different. I am personally finding language to be so limiting when attempting to define higher aspects of Consciousness.

Nancy you did a fine job in your description – thank you. This is not an easy exercise to define as I have just found out myself using the medium of ‘words’. I too noticed Fine Feather deleted his valid question shortly after writing it, I do not know his reasons as to why, yet do think it is a great question to ask oneself and purposeful for each of us to define within ourselves our own meaning. I too would very much appreciate Fine Feather’s definitions of ‘Source’; that is if he is willing to do so. If he does, I hope he can find better words than my limited vocabulary.

For myself, I usually experience what I call ‘Source’ either in out of body experiences or Kundalini rising practices. Unfortunately I do not see sign posts stating where exactly I am, so for myself I observe the distinct levels of conscious awareness ‘changes’ within myself , there is quite a difference from one Plane to the next Plane; (also each Plane has many dimensions within it). It has taken me many decades to piece together some of what I write below.

I thought it may be helpful for my own defining (and perhaps for others too) if I start several Conscious Planes ‘below’ what I deem as ‘Source’. And quite possibly what I am ‘accepting as Source’ in this particular Triad maybe just the very start of something potentially far bigger that I have yet to contemplate, experience and realise – as I remind myself this is a journey into Eternity. So please take what I write below as just being my own subjective truth of what I have had glimpses/moments of experiencing. Also I am describing in the briefest of terms the Planes; they are so much more than this where one could spend tens of thousands of years joyfully exploring!

In out of body ‘travel’ or ‘arriving’ I can experience this as ‘going somewhere’ but really I am going ‘within self’ into my inner nucleus – so although I can experience movement or force while travelling that feels very real - in truth there really is no movement, rather raising frequencies shifting my observer conscious awareness into deeper levels of Self. (I can see already my sentences are going to seem full of contradictions and paradoxes as I attempt to describe existences of Self in Planes so very different to 3D Time/Space – lol)


***

Journeying towards Source
Skipping past the ‘polarity planes’ of Hertzian, Inferred, Visible Light - then through a void space, I enter what I call Bridge Consciousness that is Neutral in nature and the Ultraviolet blue Plane - reengaging with the Soul and is the Plane of Unconditional Love. When I am BEing the centrral observer of Soul, I see multitudes of rays of simultaneous incarnations around me (past, present, future), it’s like being the centre of a star with all its rays. It is here I re-remember all my "I's" that I have been (incarnations).

Shifting into another void space, I arrive at Super Consciousness (X-Ray) Soul & Spirit Plane often called Paradise; wondrous music plays, golden light, life forms and colours etc are breathtaking! This is where I experience an ‘us-ness or we-ness’ conscious awareness, now becoming less ‘form’ (no longer attached to any body identity form yet can unfold into a form whenever I choose) I prefer to be an orb of consciousness. Here I am re-remembering and beholding ‘us-ness/we-ness’ consciousness, and all the vast creations we participate in giving unconditional love. I am this expanding conscious awareness yet I am not ‘gigantic in size like a universe’ (oh god another paradox) I am really very, very tiny like a subatomic particle (or something like that) that is interconnected.

Shifting within again, into the Planes of Hyper Consciousness and also into Ultra Consciousness (Gamma and beyond) this is the Spirit Planes of Knowingness and Pure Thought Light. This re-awakens a deeper depth of Unity Oneness Consciousness of ALL LIFE in this Triad of Creation - yet within this oneness I keep my uniqueness at the same time (I know another paradox; next paragraph brings some sense to this). The all embracing love, celebration and joy and creational conscious awareness in these two Planes are beyond Earthly description. At some point during my ‘observer shifting’ I can see below the shimmering golden/rose energy grids of Creation (part of the Source Field) where all those wondrous adventurous explorations of zillions of co-creator gods are exploring and creating in the multitudes of playgrounds. Up to this point and Planes just described, I am still the ‘journeyman’ a secondary conscious god spark mirror aspect of - my ‘wholeness/totality’ that is ‘Primary Consciousness’ the Self that eternally exists in Source and never left home. I am still in this Plane the journeyman/secondary consciousness traversing a soulful journey exploring this particular Triad of Creation of involution and now evolution.

Arriving to Source
Shifting within again my journeyman of secondary consciousness now wraps up all its realities as it lovingly brings all its unique wisdoms returning and ‘BEcoming at one’ again with ‘my’ Primary Consciousness; I could call this ‘My Great Spirit’ or ‘my god’, or ‘my source’. My own journeyman of experiences turned to wisdoms is what makes this unity of Self/co-creator god ‘unique’, (and everyone elses too due their unique journeys). My Primary Consciousness/god source is now deeper enriched and wiser via my journeyman’s exponential journey of redefining the wonders of all SELF can be in this Triad of Creation. (It is either this particular level with this reunion of 1st & 2nd consciousness becoming ONE, or the one next stage when one reaches Christos – not quite sure which it is, but suspect it is this particular level).

Shift within again and ‘my’ Primary Consciousness returns, merges with Prime Creator (God/Goddess/Source/Isness, whatever one wishes to term it) that is the totality of unconditional LOVE and Conscious life force Creation that IS in Everything, an Isness ongoingness into Forever.

(Now I am unsure if Prime Creator of this Triad of creation ‘is’ or instead ‘exists within and part of’ the next part)

There is a Great beautiful dazzling alive black Void, like a great sea teaming with alive consciousness that contains all colours and light within this black void (paradox again), with full Knowingness, omnipresence, omniscient of all potentials yet no things materially – the ideas of Everything yet a Non-Thing all at the same time. I am not even sure what I am at this stage other than consciousness, perhaps a ‘consciously aware wave’? I ride in a seamless sea of wondrously expanding ALL knowingness – I have zero questions, queries, desires etc All is Known in this alive Isness oceans of Unity creative omnipresent Conscious Knowingness. Apologises this really is a Pitiful explanation; I just cannot find the words to even skim the surface of such all knowing wondrousness.

One thing I have observed is the moment I contemplate a knowingness that washes through me, the ‘act’ of contemplating takes me immediately to BEing my Primary Consciousness (no longer Prime Creator or the Great Void). When I am the Great Void the knowingness washes through me in waves, there is no contemplation because all is Known. Smile.


***

Well that’s my glimpses of many experiences exploring higher Planes of Consciousness – so far.... and maybe just the tip of the iceberg. When the time arrives when I realise and accept fully my Isness reuniting and merging with my own Primary Consciousness/God/Source....... my next step maybe to dive into the Prime Creator (God/Source) and explore what other great wonders there are to behold in the vastness of Eternity - smile. Until then...........

I have much work to do unravelling and remembering and reconnecting to the grand mysteries I call SELF and my Source. I will keep plodding onwards and upwards within myself cleaning up all my unfinished Earthly business and the other Planes of polarity unfinished business, owning the parts I have played and turning that purposefulness into evolving wisdom and greater conscious awareness, loving myself into life (wherever that may be) while reengaging in all that I BE.

So to return to the original question defining what is ‘Source’ in my personal meaning, it includes that which is Eternal, my primary consciousness; Prime Creator and the Great Void. And I so bless my secondary consciousness journeyman because it does all the leg work.

Much love to you all
Realeyes :hug:X
Namaste

Ps. The above has been a lifetime of inner work this end - I am fed up with forgetting this over and over every time I reincarnate, so doing all I can this end to keep my memories and knowledge I have learned so I can continue to build upon them and finally at some point 'arrive' to my Source with the job done. Then leap into the next..............!

:wizard::wizard::wizard:


Feeling the need to bump this, not just because it is a great writing, but because it makes a very good point of truth.

The ultimate authority on "source" is within everyone reading here.

[greybeard]

Only God is (Source or any other name)
Some Indian sages said "I am the totality all of it"
That is the state called enlightenment--direct experience.
Of course then there is no individual left to claim enlightenment.
Persona remains but there is no identification with a me story.
The spiritual is full of paradoxes
Beyond mind to understand.

However even a basic understanding will give the understanding that we are not the body.
Fear dissipates though obviously one does not go stepping in front of buses or leaping of cliffs.

Its all Consciousness at play.
Idra's dream is a name for it--or The Cosmic Dance.

Dont go into the light!!! oh well--- if you want to believe that, fine.
We make plans and God laughs.

Chris

[Wind]

Wow, I just love the intelligent and wise discussion in this thread! I think that this discussion here is very important!

Indeed it is important to admit that in the end we all are still quite ignorant. I have learned a lot over the years, but the more I learn, the more I begin to understand that I barely I know anything at all!