Is the white light after we die a trap?

[Realeyes]

Wow, I just love the intelligent and wise discussion in this thread! I think that this discussion here is very important!

Indeed it is important to admit that in the we all are still quite ignorant. I have learned a lot over the years, but the more I learn, the more I begin to understand that I barely I know anything at all!

Hi Wind, lovely post!

Yes I agree, this thread contains a lot of thought provoking 'golden wisdoms' being shared by many members. This is expansion of consciousness in motion; so beautiful.

And I know what you mean....... its humbling when one realises there is so much more 'greater potentials' to understand and fully realise and BEcome all that we truly BE in this vastness of expanding Eternity - it is an awesome adventure bigger than any story book could ever express. :love: And we are IT! :cool:

I share the internet, so while away, one of the songs I listened to was this, that I thought is quite apt when one hears dimensionally deeper into the lyrics.


RdTyVg9njOk

[Maunagarjana]

My thoughts? Read the Law of One books. The reason Ra gives for why we don't remember our past lives is because there is a memory veil in place. It was a decision of the Logos to implement this and not some negative ET technology or implants or whatever. It's just a feature of life in third density on Earth. If you think you've got a better view of the situation than a sixth density social memory complex....have fun with that.

I love the Law of One books, and I think they offer a tremendous, positively-oriented moral and ideological compass to help guide your actions.

But you're appealing to authority here. As much as I want the Ra material to be 100% legitimate, I don't know if it is. Even if it is truly channeled material and not a hoax -- Ra speaks of how negatively-oriented entities can hijack a channel, and influence an entity seeking service to others (STO), by manipulating them into relaying a service to self (STS) message disguised as STO. Thus, in the Ra material, we are given a reason to very closely scrutinize the given information.

All sides of this discussion -- heck, every discussion, ever -- have to get past this fundamental roadblock/fallacy of appealing to authority.

You can carry on pondering this if you wish. You clearly want to have a discussion, as well you should, but I'm just telling you where I stand. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, just speaking mine. My confidence in the Law of One channelings has only grown the more I really delved into it and have thought about it and inquired within. I would suggest going to lawofone.info and typing in "memory veil" and reading everything that Ra had to say on the subject. Is it all consistent? Inconsistency might indicate tampering, but I can discern none.

About the possibility of it being a hoax by L/L Research, I find the thought rather amusing, because I don't think that those folks were intellectually up to to task, not even Don Elkins, who clearly struggled to understand what Ra was telling him, to the point where I almost feel bad for him while reading certain sessions. And he ended up losing his life as a result of the psychic attacks he was under because someone clearly did not want those communications to continue.

I can understand why people might think the memory veil is some sinister thing based on limited information, because it may in fact be set up to appear that way by the Logos. Perhaps just another bit of catalyst for people to work with. Sort of like a recurring bad dream that can serve to motivate behavior in a positive way.

But the way I see it is this....going from here to Source (and staying, I'm not talking about visiting) is possible only for those who reach complete and total enlightenment in this life, something that is hard won and is no small thing. The rest of us have to progress gradually through the densities. To me, believing that simply not going into the light allows you to bypass all that work is the epitome of wishful thinking.

[Catsquotl]

What a wonderfull question came up..
WHat is source...

hmmm Maybe I need to reread the whole thread and am I missing the point entirely. If so I am sorry.
I have just come home after a rather intensive 15 day vipassana retreat. And found the following. (well it sort of was there all along really)
Source to me is the stream of life. It is that eternal yet ever changing present now that arises anew and passes away from moment to moment.

It is the inner smile you smile when seeing a dewdrop on a flower at sunrise when all is quiet.
It is the headache that emerges when sitting at a noisy trainstation.

It is all that. I don't think we can know anything beyond our present sensate reality. We can think about it and make very wise assumptions. But source as it is I feel can only be experienced here and now. In fact it is experienced just as it is by everybody at all times when they dare look at the whole of what makes up this moment.

Sometime it is what you wanted to see and go off to future thinking land to sort of hold on to that moment... The next it isn't and you're again off to some thinking realm to escape..
But in taking the time to just be. source unfolds itself for your understanding and then you get to see it in its purety, its simplicity, its wonder and magic. Seeing it was there all along. Nothing really different that what you allready know. But filled with a loving, understanding, clear, present moment mind

WIth Love
Eelco

[Milneman]

Ok I've been on a long, long break for a reason. For some reason, this is the thread that I'm supposed to start back in...so here goes.

Flash, you're holding my hand thru this. Agape, you are too. This is gonna be a very tough one.

Three things happened on February 14th 2014 that I will never, ever forget.

1. My cousin W got married here in town in a chapel at the hospital where my uncle, his father, lives. My uncle's got full blown dementia, he's gone. His wife was a woman who's father was in the same hospital, that's where they met. They decided on the spurt of a moment to get married so very few of us knew it was happening. I didn't realize it was happening until the actual day of the wedding and I couldn't make it. My cousins and my favorite aunt came from out of town for the wedding.

2. This was also another aunt's birthday (I have a big family lol). So it was a double happy time! My Aunt R, the one who came in from out of town, was able to push her brother into the chapel in his wheel chair and be there for her nephew's wedding. I was hoping to see my Aunt R and my cousins later that week-end before they went back.

3. My aunt R, having walked out of the chapel and outside, folder her arms into her sides, looked straight ahead, and fell backwards onto the cement, hitting her head. My cousins called 911, got her in an ambulance. She protested. She wanted to go to the reception. She got to the hospital and went into a coma. A few hours later, she came out of the coma and was able to answer the doctor's questions except what day it was....their thinking being she had a concussion. They decided to schedule her for a CT scan anyway to just be safe about it.

While she was on the ward, she slipped back into a coma. The doctors asked my cousins if they wanted to put her on life support because it would be the only way they could keep her alive long enough for the family to say goodbye. This was my favorite aunt. In my youth she spent extra effort with me to make sure I knew I was loved and cared for. And shortly after 11:45 pm on Valentines day, she died.

I got a text first from my cousin. I read the text, dropped the phone in the building I was cleaning, and collapsed on the floor, screaming in grief. Then the phone started to ring. One cousin, asking me if I'd heard what had happened. Another cousin, asking me if I'd heard and just sharing the fact we were all in such utter shock. I sat down in a big, comfortable chair.

And my Aunt came to say goodbye. This is where this story becomes relevant (for me) because it's first hand evidence of what happens immediately after.

She came behind me in the chair and hugged me, she told me "It's ok big guy! I'm ok. It didn't hurt at all. It's like waking up, except sometimes you have an alarm clock and sometimes you don't and it's a surprise." And then she told me what had happened from the time she had fallen until the time she saw me there. Her husband, dead 7 years, had caught her when she fell. I know, she hit her head, but he caught "her". He stayed with her to the hospital and stayed beside her while she was in a coma in the bed. When the time came for her to pass, her husband, my grand-parents, and my dead uncles were all there to meet her. They did not go into a tunnel of light because there was no tunnel. There was just...light. And I saw them all. They stood in stages, like on short stairs, my Aunt R, her husband behind her, my 3 passed uncles behind him, and my grandmother behind them. What really shocked me, and warms me to tears still, is that my Grandfather, a man I had never met, came forward and stood beside my Aunt and told me in a very thick scottish brogue that he "was very proood of me". That was such a powerful, stirring moment for me. And then, they went. She stayed behind to make sure I was ok for a while, but she's moved on as well. They are happy!

I'm nervous about telling my cousins, her children, but think the time will come that I should. They need to hear this.

I know this has confirmed for me the truth about the other side, the transition, what happens. I don't know about reincarnation. I think that we've all looked at the same candle through broken glass for so long that we all have different ideas of what the light is, but the fact is it's just light. It's just Love.

If we are created beings that hold a spark of the Creator within us;
And,
If we, upon our death, no longer have the physical body to withhold the spark of Creator within us;
Then,
It is logically possible that no matter the light, or the dark, the Creator will be waiting for us, to welcome us home.

And that's a comforting, warm thought that my Aunt proved to me this week-end. Nobody can change that reality for me. No one.

However....

...your milage may vary. Trust your experience.

Bless. ;)

[GreenGuy]

Thanks, Milneman. That was very moving and inspiring.

[Robin]

About the possibility of it being a hoax by L/L Research, I find the thought rather amusing, because I don't think that those folks were intellectually up to to task, not even Don Elkins, who clearly struggled to understand what Ra was telling him, to the point where I almost feel bad for him while reading certain sessions. And he ended up losing his life as a result of the psychic attacks he was under because someone clearly did not want those communications to continue.


I have more insightful thoughts to add to this thread and will do so another time.

I just want to quickly interject here and say that this may be one cause for his suicide, but it was more of a heartbreak issue. The real reason Don committed suicide--which Carla admits to and becomes depressed about and feels guilty about--is that Carla switched from being a lover with Don to being a lover with Jim McCarty. Before Jim joined L&L, Don and Carla had a relationship and they did research together.

Once Jim joined them and they started doing the Ra readings, Carla more or less felt that Don was not the type of lover she wanted (Don practiced celibacy), and instead started a romantic relationship with Jim (not celibate).

Even though Don respected her decision and continued with the Ra work anyway, it got the better of him eventually by keeping his emotions pent up for so long. He was a fragile soul who had so much love for Carla. Apparently her decision to be a romantic partner to Jim was too much for him to handle. This is all in the fifth book and Carla clearly spells all this out in her own words that this is the reason.

We are all victims of the human desire. It's a shame that Don let this carry him over the edge.

Back to topic! ;)

[Synchronicity]

Thanks, Milneman. That was very moving and inspiring.

I second that! Thank you for sharing that. Beautiful!!!!

[Maunagarjana]

And he ended up losing his life as a result of the psychic attacks he was under because someone clearly did not want those communications to continue.


I just want to quickly interject here and say that this may be one cause for his suicide, but it was more of a heartbreak issue.

Yes, I'm aware of that. But if he wasn't being psychically attacked, I seriously doubt that situation would have gone that far. I think it was exploited. They were trying to use whatever they could against him. Also, I listened to an interview with Jim where he said that Carla had been under heavy attack, and that Don had actually requested for them to attack him instead, and I think he got his wish. Anyway, that's a whole other conversation.

[markpierre]

I'm nervous about telling my cousins, her children, but think the time will come that I should. They need to hear this.

I know this has confirmed for me the truth about the other side, the transition, what happens.


You'll be really surprised at how desperate people are to hear those stories. Or how desperate they are to
feel comfortable telling their own.

Both of my parents came to see me. The way I tell those stories no one would question me.

Really nice post.

[Chester]

26. There is no greater blessing anywhere
Than the gaining of the Self
Meditate ever on the Self. He who is the Self,
Is indeed the one all-pervasive Supreme Self-
be aware of this.



hahaha if you take the English language and assign the numbers (in order) to each letter then you get this - 26.

7 + 15 + 4 = 26

7 = g

15 = o

4 = d

"Just a coincidence... nothing to worry about." (David Icke)

it seems we perceive ourselves as manifest. This is why, on the one hand, I see us all as "God, manifest" (children of Source). When I (and I assume this to be the case for all) open up to the Great Unmanifest, I come face to face with my True Self which logic suggests is that thing we sometimes label as "God."

The last step is allowing absorption into that face (which I can only state metaphorically). It can happen in the now (and perhaps this is all we actually always do anyways and that it is that lovely bugger "the ego" which jumps between our conscious knowing of this likelihood).

[Brakeman]

Has anyone else ever flat-lined before?

There wasn't any light or warmth.

Just a feeling of floating about a foot above the body staring at the ceiling unable to figure out how to move because you don't have a body anymore.

A loud buzzing sound as well.

Almost like a high voltage electrical source. Only much, much louder.

Maybe that is the tone of the energy the light manifests from? Or vice versa.

[seeker/reader]

Cameron Day also references the light at the end of the tunnel being a trap to trick you back into reincarnation. Below is an excerpt. The whole article can be found here

http://www.ascensionhelp.com/blog/2013/11/21/tell-the-lords-of-karma-that-you-are-sovereign-no-longer-a-lightworker-part-2/

The Light Review Scam
The primary tool that the ToK use to manipulate a being into accepting nearly endless reincarnation is the (false) "Light Review." When a person's body dies, they move out into the astral realms and begin to shed most of their previously held identity.

If this process were allowed to occur without interruption, the True Light of that being would emerge from within them and they would release layer upon layer of limiting beliefs generated in that incarnation.

However, within the realms of the demiurgic control system, what happens is that the ToK intercept that being just as their light is starting to emerge from within and surround them in a dazzling display of colorful external light. (This is why most of the people with near-death experiences report going through a tunnel of light.) The dazzling outer display distracts the being from the light emerging from within them and hypnotizes them through frequency entrainment and activation of any and all religious programming that being had been exposed to during their incarnation.

The ToK and other members of the Spiritual Liararchy such as arch(on) "angels" and "ascended masters" will often be present in the background during this process. As the individual is filled with a feeling of universal love and connectedness, they are told that this feeling is coming into them from the external "beings of light" that are surrounding them.

However, this feeling of universal oneness and love is actually emerging from INSIDE of the being, and it is being reflected back to them by the ToK and the liararchy. The individual doesn't have any time to reflect on what is happening, because they are quickly moved into the "review" phase of the process. They are shown a little movie of their life which focuses on the disappointments, unfulfilled desires, painful experiences and hurtful actions the person experienced during their life.

Through this biased and manipulated "life review," the being is made to feel bad about their life, which is exactly what the ToK want.

They tell the person that even though they failed at so many things in their life, that they will be given a chance to go back one more time and "get things right" in a new incarnation. The being is then grateful at this chance for redemption and accepts the agreements that the ToK present them with to incarnate again.

[MalteseKnight]

Hi all


This is an interesting discussion...could somebody propose an experiment/s to prove (or disprove) the " don't go into the light " standpoint? Comparisons are odious....but arguably some variations on the double slit experiment appear to demonstrate the existence of other dimensions beyond the three plus time that mainstream science seems to be largely anchored in.

There are those who argue that after death the body loses 22 grams or so of weight..i.e. the weight of the soul...could its subsequent 'capture' by the light mechanism affect the weight of the corpse it has just left? leading it to regain weight ever so much slightly in a sympathetic action ...could Bell's theorem have some application here?

Hoping I have not said something too stupid...

Maybe one of us will come up with something interesting....

Best regards to all,

MalteseKnight

[STR]

So what if you are wrong? You told someone don't go into the light its a mouse trap. Now you passed on something you heard from someone else. You don't know anything but you passed it. Now the person dies. They remember, they avoid the light but what if you are dead wrong and don't know squat!? You speculate, guess, even pretend to know and tell someone oh its a mousetrap! How do you know that for sure to be able to pass that to someone other than just keep it to yourself? Fine if you think it. But suppose you realize just as you are saying this to someone that you don't know enough to suggest this? How dare you take that right to even pretend to know something about what comes its so bold, so wrong! Dont' go into the light go into the light, think of source, don't trust your relatives they are familiar spirits and on it goes and the bottom line is none of you knows squat but you all push it like you know. Like you were just there last night and confirmed it is for sure a trap and now you can tell us all about it and I find it distasteful pretending to know something you cannot possibly know. Its a dead end discussion. No one really knows the answer to this. Its someone's guess that it is so, and he decided to lay his/her head out there and take responsibility for telling a bunch of souls to turn the other way when you die. I can only hope you all realize before that time that knowing and pretending are two entirely different things. My cousin, and a friend from high school just passed night before last. I spoke with him on the phone not long ago. During that conversation the thought to talk of some of this came up but you know what? I didn't say anything to him and I didn't say anything to him on his death bed, his real death bed because I don't know enough to pretend to say that to someone I care about. You don't either. None of you.

[Synchronicity]

So what if you are wrong? You told someone don't go into the light its a mouse trap. Now you passed on something you heard from someone else. You don't know anything but you passed it. Now the person dies. They remember, they avoid the light but what if you are dead wrong and don't know squat!? You speculate, guess, even pretend to know and tell someone oh its a mousetrap! How do you know that for sure to be able to pass that to someone other than just keep it to yourself? Fine if you think it. But suppose you realize just as you are saying this to someone that you don't know enough to suggest this? How dare you take that right to even pretend to know something about what comes its so bold, so wrong! Dont' go into the light go into the light, think of source, don't trust your relatives they are familiar spirits and on it goes and the bottom line is none of you knows squat but you all push it like you know. Like you were just there last night and confirmed it is for sure a trap and now you can tell us all about it and I find it distasteful pretending to know something you cannot possibly know. Its a dead end discussion. No one really knows the answer to this. Its someone's guess that it is so, and he decided to lay his/her head out there and take responsibility for telling a bunch of souls to turn the other way when you die. I can only hope you all realize before that time that knowing and pretending are two entirely different things. My cousin, and a friend from high school just passed night before last. I spoke with him on the phone not long ago. During that conversation the thought to talk of some of this came up but you know what? I didn't say anything to him and I didn't say anything to him on his death bed, his real death bed because I don't know enough to pretend to say that to someone I care about. You don't either. None of you.

I am sorry for your loss. It is indeed a heavy weight to tell anyone what the answer is to something so personal and private. My condolences on your loss and I wish him ...both of you...peace.

[donk]

Well said STR, and that is why it is so important to question the deliverer of the message. To vet your sources. On more than just gut feelings and the high opinion others have of them--a red flag goes off for me any time anyone speaks with "seeming authority" on an experiential subject such as this.

I think it is important to consider the possibility of a "trap". I consider it just as important knowing inside and out WHY someone would transmit that message, WHY they believe it so strongly that feel it's important, and where exactly they are coming from.

...and still advise doubt and caution, even when that individual is completely "vetted" in your own mind.

Your best friend is capable of betraying you, you may even be capable of "betraying yourself". Conversely, truth may be transmitted by those that don't "resonate" with you, in fact, I find that to be more often the case. If something runs you the wrong way, maybe there's something to it.

And don't forget that this discussion is just of a detail of a much more important, practical, directly effecting us as living beings topic: the denial of death.

Blue oyster cult said in the groovingest way: Don't fear the reaper.

If you can transcend the most limiting, self destructive, ingrained program in the history of mankind (fear of dying), life becomes a lot easier...for me, in my opinion, all qualifiers added here to remind y'all it's just me sharing my experience, I don't know sh!t and am usually wrong...

Love ya all...

[Jake]

You don't either. None of you.

STR,,, Try again!! I do not come from a place where I am trying to describe a guess!!! I will not project my reality onto others,, you should not project yours onto others, either... To assume that others have not had direct experiences with 'White Light' phenomenon,,, is assuming waaaayyy too much. :) I have experienced such phenomenon during OBE and look,,,,, here I am! There is much more going on than what will be experienced as a brilliant white light. I don't believe in death. Too much experience outside my body!! It is impossible for you to sit there and tell me what I DON'T know!!

I have been on the side of those who consider that 'white light' phenomenon can be mimicked and used as a deception... Do I know that for sure,,, NO. I have had experiences with an astral locale that I refer to as 3D Black!!! It is an amazing thing to experience. It is total and complete blackness,, (or what we understand to be blackness,,, absence of 'light') There is a special/3-4D effect that is simply genious... You can judge distance without light... you can see without light... the space around you is vibrant and alive... It begins to 'glow' and the most amazing feeling of peace and fulfillment takes over... All of the love that I refuse myself, is within the 3d black... I have never been engulfed by a more 'whole' experience... Yet it was completely BLACK AND DARK!!! Do you see??? Maybe if you were with me,,, you would have seen a White light. Or if another person was with us,,, they'd see a purple light, or experience music!! Do you see??

I will admit that this discussion is limited to what we have experienced. Feel free to speculate on the 'white light' phenomenon...

STR, I am sorry about the passing of your friend... Again,,, I don't believe in death. White light or not,, we are forever!!! No matter what color of light shines on you when you feel peace,,, embrace it... Never assume that the color of light means any ONE thing....

Another thing,,, a person who is faced with the true brilliant white light, upon leaving the body will (usually) not be taking the advice of someone they had a discussion with, as they will be engulfed in the experience,, and likely not remember a damn thing that was said!! :)

Wayyyyy too much stuff going on 'out there' to be obsessed with the color of the light that brings you peace...

I am sorry for the passing of your friend.. It hits home. Sorry.
Jake.

[STR]

You don't either. None of you.

STR,,, Try again!!


I get by in life a lot by my own gut feelings. Its fine for me but to present something we suspect vs something that is so? Well, to be so it must be validated. I have not seen that with the light mouse trap theory. Really what else is there besides self validation? We can only convince ourselves consciousness exists because we are apparently conscious ourselves. We see structure before us, and the effects anyway of the energy, the movement, the time or decay as we age whatever we term it it is the process isn't it? The movement of the life so to speak. So we have consciousness, structure, and energy. Its always been here. Freeze the entire structure the energy and apparently the awareness still exists, its just changed. Energy can't die, it can only change, transform. I'm aware of this and believe it to be so. I believe we all cycle, the same as the entire system of life, including the all above to the smallest below and its all individual singularities of the whole really. I am not saddened by my friend leaving. In some ways I envy him I think. If what I felt was real, not illusion of the neurological responses of death in the brain as my science and dental and anatomy training all tell me it is then what we do and where we go when we leave here is quite wonderful. Still, real as it was, real as it felt seeing what appeared to be a crystal city and visits with friends deceased that also seemed quite real I find I question the validity of the experience. Was it real? What is real? The doubt lingers. Same with this light question. For me I have had experiences with orb beings. I guess my problem with the light mouse trap theory revolves around that fact that for myself, in my experience experience with a light has always involved contact with another awareness, and not necessarily always a 'higher' one but just a someone from somewhere. I can say the same for the darkness that on occasion passes through my property and home. The nature spirit of the land that has been here for eons according to him and he enjoys the way I care and tend to the land unlike others here before me. Many would instantly see light as good, dark as evil and yet it can be either way. Light can be very snobbish. I have not seen anger or retaliation or fear mongering by them but curious behavior around some organic life forms for sure. I once witnessed an orb chasing a squirrel out of a bird nest when I was hunting for squirrel and rabbit as a youth. This indicated even then in my early teens to me that the stories passed down by my Irish granny of fairies and elves and wee folk maybe had something to them.

I shared a story, another one with the mods and maybe you saw this Jake. If so it will be much repeat for you but this is as real as it gets for the light. While the man involved in this may be shocked to discover the way I see this the fact is this story can be verified. Its even in the Keyser News Tribune paper and one can look that up to verify he really got burned. Witnesses can really verify that very afternoon before he got burned that he hit me and one of those is my mother. I have never been comfortable with this story. Honestly it was the first time I feared the light awareness and realized their role here must be much more involved in lesson planning for us as a species than we are aware.

When I was a young cross walk guard as a fifth or sixth grader. I really do not remember the grade but I was a boy in grammar school (Catholic private)and as I performed my cross walk duties a boy from the high school with his friend was walking from their school. He was older than I by several years. I went to cross even tho I did not know for sure you know if I was supposed to bother with high school students. I recall toying with that question in my head with that idea wondering and in the end I approached the middle of the street with my orange reflective vest and flag saying stop, you know the whole ball of wax, and as I near them and the tall one, George, I still remember his name, but George the all star boxer in his grade known because he liked to fight sucker punched me right in the bread basket sinking it really deep and flooring me. I didn't see it coming, had never been hit like that before and could not breath at all. I lay there literally sprawled out on the ground and he and his little friend laughed. He boxed at the local golden glove boxing school or gym or whatever. He was on TV even and back then that was a big thing I guess. He was known and people paid to watch him box and was considered a tough good boxer. It was all fun to him. It hurt me enough to make me bleed some and cough up blood. I was crying. It hurt so bad. I was very violated.

The light came later in my bed as I was forgetting. I didn't tell anyone about it either. The light knew tho. It came to me like that as a youth. Usually it was in my sleep. I miss that now as it is less frequent now but I digress. Touching me, I instantly broke into big uncontrolled tears. Whenever a disembodied spirit touches one it emotionally impacts us and I felt this hand on my shoulder in a big way instant big sobs, the biggest of my life from this touch and from this touch I also knew this young man that did this to me was punished. This being at my bed was telling me with a touch that he punished this young man I think. Or he was informing karma was done or something for what he did to me. I don't know by whom this happened. I never see but a light and its like man size or bigger not a little orb like the one that chased the squirrel. The real validation for me was the next day in the paper, which my mother brought to me to read folded open to it aware of what he did to me which I did not know until that morning next. In the report in the paper it read that he went home from school that afternoon and proceeded to continue a job he was working on.

That afternoon after punching me he worked on his motor bike. A mini bike in his basement and it caught fire and got out of congtrol on him burning the entire left side of his upper body, his whole arm is to this day scar tissue all the way from fingers to shoulder and back, neck on that arm and coincidentally it is that arm he used on me cause he was left handed as I recall. I hear he has to go in periodically to have it sliced to allow the tightness to be relieved due to the nature of how scar tissue behaves over time.

I'll be honest with you I always felt protected, in my life. Always as if someone was there to balance out what someone else was up to trying to wreck havoc for a while in my life but this event was well, wow right? For the first time I was asking, but from what am I protected? I ask now too at times because this is not the only strange and unusual event in my life. I see a being with awareness not some mouse trap. It is an orb being of greater size.

[araucaria]

hahaha if you take the English language and assign the numbers (in order) to each letter then you get this - 26.

7 + 15 + 4 = 26

7 = g

15 = o

4 = d

"Just a coincidence... nothing to worry about." (David Icke)

This is known by the kabbalists as gematria. It so happens that the numerical value of the tetragrammaton (the four consonants of the name Yahweh) also add up to 26.

26 is a special number because it alone connects a square (5*5=25) with a cube (3*3*3=27).

[Ron Mauer Sr]

I also pay close attention to my gut feelings and depend upon those feelings for guidance. When the rational and intuitive minds agree, I interpret that as the best guidance available.

That being said, I have traveled paths that turned out to be dead ends, where both the rational mind and intuitive minds seemed to point me in the same direction. After discovering that the path was a dead end, I wondered about the accuracy of my guidance. Then later, I realized the goal I expected to find on the path was not what was of value. The real value was what I learned on the journey. All experience, in this vehicle or another vehicle, or maybe no vehicle is about the never ending journey of Prime Creator on an eternal mission of self discovery. Want to see the face of Prime Creator? Go look in the mirror. The downside of this is realization that all the people you want to avoid or don’t like are also Prime Creator.

I apply these ideas to making the choice: go to the light? or not?

Some options we may have:



Keep a strong intention to go home, to return to Source. Go away from the light.
Go to the light and have an interesting, perhaps joyful experience wandering around the astral. But be careful.
Go the light, have memory erased, get recycled into another cycle of reincarnation, where fear and negative emotions become food for reptilian farmers or other creatures managing the food supply.


My current plan is to remember where the options may lead, and not be in a rush to choose once croaked. I’m thinking that a strong intention to go home, to return to Source is always a good idea to maintain before and after croaking. If I choose the light, and the light is a trap, then my journey leads me to travel a path of more challenges and growth (or not), experiencing 3D again, playing a game against the not-so-nice reptilian farmer who has cheated by rigging the game in his favor. Not the game I want to play. But I wanted to touch the stove to see if it was really hot, and here I am. Maybe I’ll choose differently next time.

I am reminded of Bill Hicks saying “It’s just a ride”.

[Youniverse]

This is a pretty long thread and I don't know what's been covered but here goes my two cents. I fairly recently discussed this question with a very insightful friend. He said the whole question is a joke, literally. The joke was that if you stay away from the light you wouldn't die and have to re-incarnate, rather you would return to your body and continue on with this life. He said that if you truly were in the situation of seeing "the light," any attempt at resistance would be futile. Not to mention that upon seeing and feeling the light you would be so drawn to it(because it is God or Source) that you most certainly would strongly want to go to it. When you see that the light is you, why be afraid of it? It's true that we do fear ourselves sometimes. I have heard of people meeting up with ETs and running for the hills or being overcome with fear because of what the interaction stirred up within themselves and not the ETs presence or actions. This earthly ego can be afraid of the higher self or spirit that created it and so makes it's very existence possible. Look at many of our major religions and the so-called "God-fearing folks" for proof of that point. The belief in a wrathful God is connected to the fear of the Self that many of us still harbor. Do not be afraid. This is who you are. But back to the original question regarding whether or not to go into the light. You always have choice before and after death, however, which part of you is doing the choosing? The one that dies or the eternal spirit that you are? From the egoic side of things, this is it and it will cling on with every resource and effort it has. After death there is still ego, although a less confined one than an embodied ego. So after death the ego or little me might say "I don't want to go there because I have this or that left to do or a relationship to continue." The higher self we call the soul has the higher view and can see a much bigger picture than the ego. So higher self might say, okay you can go back but you will have to live in a less healthy body. Or you could be lucky and higher self will say, yes you have to go back anyways because there are key things you have to experience or contribute and your body will be miraculously healed(as in Eben Alexander's story). Many egos love the afterlife environment and feelings so much that they don't want to go back to earth but higher self knows better and puts you back whether you like it or not. Any way you look at it, higher self will know the optimal path for your spiritual growth or goals and set you in the right direction. You can find a great deal of evidence for these assertions from studying the many thousands of NDE testimonies catalogued on the web and in books. This is still all just my opinion(the little me talking) though and is not how it is. We can only experience that when we are in an awakened state or disembodied. Our mind can't properly explain it or even understand much. So in summary I would say that you will do what's best for you when the time(or 'no time') comes. Imo opinion don't worry about whether or not you should "go into the light." Just be concerned with living a good life and knowing your Self to the best of your abilities. The rest will take care of itself automatically.

[Synchronicity]

From Youniverse:


Imo opinion don't worry about whether or not you should "go into the light." Just be concerned with living a good life and knowing your Self to the best of your abilities. The rest will take care of itself automatically.

I can't think of a better way to put it.

[Finefeather]

I'd like to ask you if you can describe Source....
Please note that I am not in any way attempting to change anyone's own view...this is my experience and I do not have any wish to change anyone's mind...you can do that yourself. I am not fixed in my opinion and I am not dogmatic, although some here may think that :)

So, I would like to attempt to describe the word “Source”...which so many of us use... as I have come to know it. There is a lot more to this but that could take a while.

I have also been fortunate to experience this personally many times and so I am just telling you my story...please don't fight with me...be gentle :)

First...I can safely say without any fear of contradiction that no one, in the entire Cosmos, has ever merged with...or met with...or has gone to, source...this is quite simply because we cannot merge with or meet with or go to the very thing that we already are. The reality of the story is that we just have not yet realised it.

Some of us have had experiences, during OB or meditation or even under a tree :), which seems as if we have met this source but this is actually just a consciousness expansion in the higher worlds, were we have realised that we are actually a Self for that moment. We also meet our friends who can appear in the most amazing forms and are quite stunning to witness. We can also meet other Beings and we can mistake them for 'source' when in fact they might be our guardian angel...etc

We are each a 'source' and in esoterics it is known as a Self or a Monad.

A Monad is the term used to describe the smallest single individual state of a life...and everything that exists is a single monad or bunch of monads in different states of consciousness and with different envelopes around them which constitute the many forms which exist in the many worlds in the Cosmos. Everything is alive...and a life.

For example a human is a Self wrapped in a physical, an etheric, an emotional, a mental and a causal envelope. These envelopes...we refer to them as 'bodies'...are the reason we struggle to realise who we really are. So when we refine them we start clearing the 'path' to Self realisation.

It is our goal to become aware that we are a Self and therefore to become 'Self conscious' and this means that right now we still believe that we are separate from this thing we call source...but the separation is not a 'physical' one but a consciousness one.

A Self is our true identity...the real and only immortal and indestructible thing which continues to grow. Each Self is only as conscious as it has become by the long process of evolution...which is consciousness growth or expansion.

There is ONE consciousness in existence...ONE reality...ONE mind...and we have each contributed to this ONENESS by our own individual experiences and efforts. We therefore also have access to the entire ONENESS of which we are all a part of...but this does not mean we all are conscious of the total ONENESS. This omniscience is our long term ultimate goal...but we are still very far from that point.

So we do not have a Higher Self as many seem to believe...this is a myth...caused by our still mistaken idea of who or what we really are. There are of course Higher Selves, but these are just other Selves who have progressed further than we have and they could be anywhere, from sitting right next to you, or in other worlds or kingdoms or planets or realms or dimensions.

Once we become Self conscious we have completed our many many cycles of incarnation and we 'graduate' from the human or 4th kingdom to the next or 5th kingdom known as the 2nd Triad or Essential Kingdom. We then become known as a true Self. From there we can choose to do a number of exciting things...one been to come back into a human body and help our brothers on earth as best we can without interfering with their right to choose their own way.

I hope I have not wasted your time...so thank you for your time.

Take care and much love to all.
Ray

[greybeard]

Thanks Ray.
We may have different ways of expressing this but essential we are saying the same thing.
I have to bite my tongue when some one says "Dont go into the light"

Youniverse says it well too.

These thread appear from time to time but essentially they are full of half truths and generate fear to a greater or lesser degree.
Religion thrives on promoting fear of what happens when you die unless you do as directed.

There is absolutely nothing to fear.

Chris

Ps the opening post was an honest request for information and was not promoting fear.

[Shezbeth]

On a lighter note, It appears to me that the question of a light and the question of its purpose - in spite of numerous NDEs - are speculative. My opinion is that the universe has (among other things) an infinite sense of humor, and that any choice that might seem presented is simply to satisfy the self-deterministic inclinations of an individual as relates to their predisposed response to stimuli.

Imagine (I say imagine in observance of differing accounts/experiences) that at the point of death there is a light, and that there is an opportunity to go toward it or go away from it.
Option A: Go toward the light - Congratulations! You have selected to reincarnate in a new and exciting 3-dimensional body!
Option B: Go away from the light - Congratulations! You have selected to reincarnate in a new and exciting 3-dimensional body!

I'm reminded of the Giant Game in Ender's Game where either given choice produces the same result, though in that example the 'correct' answer is neither. Food for thought.

[Hervé]

Hi Chris... poor tongue :)

There is something which keep being unacknowledged in the whole thread and that is the experiences of those who have recalled the grind of going to that fake "white light," gotten a refresher implant somewhere on a space station and thrown back to the grind in a new body.

Those who didn't experience such or recall any of it for whatever reason are treating those who did the same way that early accounts of UFO sightings and/or alien abductions where treated... and in order to get to the nitty-gritty bottom of what happened during these abductions, one had to go through the projected impersonations of friendly relatives or departed, then friendly, loving projections of screen memories to finally arrive at recalling the horror of the experiments performed.

If that's not real to some, well, that's not part of their reality. However, it is very real to others who wish for themselves and others not to fall for that trap once more. And all that's asking is to perform a last discernment check on what's happening.

That's all.

[greybeard]

Amzer Zo Im all for discernment.

Im just taking it from the absolute statement of the thread title "Don't go into the light"
I haven’t read what Simon says on the subject as the request was for information on something specific.
His experience is of course valid for him.

We have possibly studied different subjects Amzer Zo--im grounded in the path of enlightenment and that's very simple---Find out who you are and thats a focused enquiry. When you know that, the sages promise that all else is seen to be illusion.
Everything comes and goes, its temporary, except what you ultimately are.
David Icke has said "Only unconditional love is, the rest is illusion" or words to that effect.

When you read enlightened sages for years--perception changes, fear goes and a knowing develops that there is nothing to fear and that certainly applies to going into the light.
The likes of The Buddha say that this is a world of misery and the way to escape the cycle of seeming birth and death is to apply yourself to the path of enlightenment --- that is a guaranteed way out.
Is that not worth the effort required? ----chasing ghosts wont do it or amassing all kinds of knowledge.
Jesus said "Even the wisest of my disciples enter the Kingdom of Heaven by faith alone" The Kingdom of Heaven is within. Just takes time and effort to discover it.

All the best
Chris

[STR]

Hi Chris... poor tongue :)

There is something which keep being unacknowledged in the whole thread and that is the experiences of those who have recalled the grind of going to that fake "white light," gotten a refresher implant somewhere on a space station and thrown back to the grind in a new body.

Those who didn't experience such or recall any of it for whatever reason are treating those who did the same way that early accounts of UFO sightings and/or alien abductions where treated... and in order to get to the nitty-gritty bottom of what happened during these abductions, one had to go through the projected impersonations of friendly relatives or departed, then friendly, loving projections of screen memories to finally arrive at recalling the horror of the experiments performed.

If that's not real to some, well, that's not part of their reality. However, it is very real to others who wish for themselves and others not to fall for that trap once more. And all that's asking is to perform a last discernment check on what's happening.

That's all.


I believe I understand and the answer, short and to the point as always by a holy man I once heard the question asked: "Do we have free will?"The answer was, 'do you believe you have free will?' Which obviously is another question. Shortly after the Dali Lama said this to the youth I meditated on this among other things he shared. In a particular moment of clarity and compassion I typed out the following.

Like the body that which is the space, which is energetic and structured consciousness and is the substance of that which you witness before you, readily responds to the thoughts and impressions you place upon it. Like the body this space is a delicate and plastic instrument for your consciousness to manipulate as you believe. Your key belief systems create the very reality in which you find yourself! So, if you believe you have free will you have free will, if you believe you do not then you do not. God, universe, the space before you readily becomes any ideal or vision you hold as truth. Change that belief, alter that truth and perceive of the outward in a new way, and instantly the space has changed, just as the body does when it goes from calm to shock, and back to calm again. In that instant all of the space including you has changed!

I have found this to be mostly truth. We create the very reality we find ourselves in so I would say if you believe in a trap you will actually find one because your belief creates it as reality for you. I believe this school of manifesting is exactly to prepare for this instant manifestation of desire outside of these physical realms. Becoming better navigators on the base level is always necessary before graduating to the big league in any game including this one. ;)

[greybeard]

Yes STR
Yes if you are wary of going into the light you could well manifest what ever fear underlies this.

Free will applies in the dream state as does the concept of co-creating--all within illusion.

What exactly can be trapped?
Implants can be put in bodies but in the formless?

Ramesh Balsekar quoted from the Bhagavad Gita

"God wrote the play
God directed the play
God produced the play
God acted in the play
God witnessed the play"

Ramana when asked about free will said.
Find out who is asking about free will-- then you will find the question is irrelevant.

In fairness its all levels of perception--what is seen from the mountain top is quite different from what is seen at lower levels.
Its a bit like graduating. Primary school is a start. The pupil is the same entity from first day at school to graduation.
All are equal. No level is better than another.
However when most of the work has been done the dream life gets easier.

Chris

[Synchronicity]

Hi Chris... poor tongue :)

There is something which keep being unacknowledged in the whole thread and that is the experiences of those who have recalled the grind of going to that fake "white light," gotten a refresher implant somewhere on a space station and thrown back to the grind in a new body.

Those who didn't experience such or recall any of it for whatever reason are treating those who did the same way that early accounts of UFO sightings and/or alien abductions where treated... and in order to get to the nitty-gritty bottom of what happened during these abductions, one had to go through the projected impersonations of friendly relatives or departed, then friendly, loving projections of screen memories to finally arrive at recalling the horror of the experiments performed.

If that's not real to some, well, that's not part of their reality. However, it is very real to others who wish for themselves and others not to fall for that trap once more. And all that's asking is to perform a last discernment check on what's happening.

That's all.

I don't know, I think for the most part people here have said do what feels right to the individual or that it isn't absolutely one way or another. I didn't see much discounting anyone's personal experiences, but more saying it doesn't have to be absolute. That is totally different than rudely dismissing or laughing at something someone says happened to him or her. One simply doesn't put absolutes on the whole experience that everyone "should" follow or have horrible experiences, and the other is just rude and dismissive. I think if a person doesn't want to go to the light, then s/he shouldn't. That is what I have gotten from this thread...each person has different experiences and has to choose what works for him or her.

[Hervé]

Let me see if I got this right...

Some 2500 years ago some dude started something to the effect of finding a way to break the endless cycle of birth and death, right?

If that's correct, then said dude realized something everyone else seems to skip: the existence of an endless cycle of birth and death that needed breaking.

How come there's such a cycle to the point that even the Dalai Lama has to be spotted before he forgets who he is and has been? Then go back to school to relearn, once again, his own edicts written/uttered over his many re-incarnations even if he has changed his mind since that time, etc...

I am not against enlightment under whichever way one chooses or finds it, all I am saying is that one needs to ensure there is no "Third Man in the Room (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68916-Don-t-go-into-the-light-Discussion-thread&p=806378&viewfull=1#post806378)" pulling strings, tricks and legs.

At this point I can only agree to disagree as I don't need any more lectures on "creating one's own reality" since I am also very well aware of that one: depending of the state one is in, either there is no "Third Man in the Room (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68916-Don-t-go-into-the-light-Discussion-thread&p=806378&viewfull=1#post806378)" and all the giggling people around are nuts or the third man never left the room and there is a poor soul that's being played around.

[greybeard]

Hi Amzer Zo
If it was just one dude 2500 years ago I would very much doubt what he said---this world seems very real---but!!!!-- long before and after the Buddha there were realised enlightened beings saying the same thing.

There is a karmic cycle--the wheel that leads to seeming birth and death --rebirth and on it goes till the way out of it is found.

There are a few, who having realised the ultimate truth, reincarnate in order to help others out of here showing the way to enlightenment.

Tims thread is very clear and specific about enlightenment.
He is talking from direct experience.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43027-Enlightenment-A-direct-succinct-account-of-what-occurs...&p=456904&viewfull=1#post456904

In a way, you can forget about going into, or, not going into the light when you start to discover your true Self beyond name,function, concepts ,belief systems etc
What would you be without any of these things?
They are all temporary, as is your body and individual identity.
Ultimately you are That--One without a second, as testified to by the enlightened.

Everyone is entitled to believe what they want to believe but every belief has repercussions.

Beliefs change--you do not.

The same self experiences all these changing thoughts.
Your true nature is not a belief it is ultimate Truth.

Best wishes
Chris

[Finefeather]

Hi Amzer
I am genuinely interested in who you would choose as being the best and most convincing writer on the light been a trap.
Besides your logical deductions above, which I think are pretty sound...what made you have such a strong belief in this possibility?
I do apologize if I might have missed it somewhere...and if you could post the link as well please.
Take care
Ray

[Hervé]

Hi Ray,

Here is a good starting thread: MATRIX REVEALED -- Analysis & Solutions (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52786-MATRIX-REVEALED-Analysis-Solutions)

Cheers!

[Finefeather]

Hi Ray,

Here is a good starting thread: MATRIX REVEALED -- Analysis & Solutions (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52786-MATRIX-REVEALED-Analysis-Solutions)

Cheers!
Well you are saying that I should believe Truman Cash, who ever he may not be?...and this is your case for not going into the light?
With all due respects, to everyone, I have long ago dismissed his stories as fiction and I am surprised that so many have been tricked into believing this entire fabrication.

And here I was thinking I was going to have something interesting to read tonight in bed :)
Thanks and take care Amzer
Ray

[Hervé]

Ray,

All I can state is that abductees' and contactees' experiences are not part of your reality.

Cheers!

[seeker/reader]

You do realize that Truman Cash is an active member here on the forum, correct? It looks like he is on the fourm currently.



Hi Ray,

Here is a good starting thread: MATRIX REVEALED -- Analysis & Solutions (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52786-MATRIX-REVEALED-Analysis-Solutions)

Cheers!
Well you are saying that I should believe Truman Cash, who ever he may not be?...and this is your case for not going into the light?
With all due respects, to everyone, I have long ago dismissed his stories as fiction and I am surprised that so many have been tricked into believing this entire fabrication.

And here I was thinking I was going to have something interesting to read tonight in bed :)
Thanks and take care Amzer
Ray

[Finefeather]

Ray,

All I can state is that abductees' and contactees' experiences are not part of your reality.

Cheers!
Well you are quite right about that Amzer...so the question is why is it in your reality...or in anyone's for that matter?

I saw a great post earlier on and thought I would just post a bit of it here...


1: If an alien species is millions, if not BILLIONS of years ahead of us in technology, and have mastered faster than light travel for eons....they'd need a enormous source of energy, and would utilize zero point energy, drawing energy from space itself. So they would need come to Earth for resources like oil, coal and nuclear materials. Same for construction materials....their technology would make ALL of our high technology and energy sources look like prehistoric JUNK.

2: The abductions....from what I heard, we have the technology to do a project blue beam, as in a fake alien invasion when the terrorist fear porn no longer works, ever since the 70's at least. And I heard we are able to 'manufacture' greys.....I am still researching this. But at least think of this....if aliens, for some reason, wanted our genetic material, all they'd need is a flake of skin or a hair follicle....they would not need anything else....so stop flattering yourselves....your sperm and eggs are not THAT great, folks. ;)

3: They are more afraid of us. They fear us and fear FOR us. You see, we went from cupboard wagon and rifles to putting men on the moon and making thermonuclear bombs in less than 100 years. We, right now, have potential to be just like that Star Trek Episode, "Mirror Mirror" and "A Mirror Darkly" where humanity is a vicious, militaristic empire that carry out mass exterminations on other populations, following by subjugation of the survivors. I've read that many of those alien worlds don't even HAVE a word for "war". WE are the scary ones, folks.


We can not give into the fear porn and be like that redneck hillbilly sitting on his porch, and reaching for his shotgun every time he sees someone walking down the road and shouting to them, "GIT OV'A M' PROPA-TEE!"


Take care
Ray

[Finefeather]

You do realize that Truman Cash is an active member here on the forum, correct? It looks like he is on the fourm currently.



Hi Ray,

Here is a good starting thread: MATRIX REVEALED -- Analysis & Solutions (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52786-MATRIX-REVEALED-Analysis-Solutions)

Cheers!
Well you are saying that I should believe Truman Cash, who ever he may not be?...and this is your case for not going into the light?
With all due respects, to everyone, I have long ago dismissed his stories as fiction and I am surprised that so many have been tricked into believing this entire fabrication.

And here I was thinking I was going to have something interesting to read tonight in bed :)
Thanks and take care Amzer
Ray
I am able to deduct that by the mere fact that he writes on this forum...and if he is on the forum currently, well good then he can speak for himself.

What always amazes me is that someone can come along and spin the biggest yarn and people will flock to hear their story...because maybe they wrote a book or were interviewed by someone...this is supposed to make them authentic.
If someone who has not written a book or been interviewed, and has had just as much experience, comes along he/she is treated like some "who are you to say such things".

What makes one person's testimony correct and another person's hearsay?

There have been quite a few on this forum who have been treated like rock stars and then found to be dishing out fiction...it just takes time to weed them out in our minds.

One thing I know, based on my own experience, is that there is a real reality out there and those who get caught up in their own fantasies and illusions will one day break out of their self created reality and join those who can see life for what it is...a beautiful creation where love should be around every corner...instead we are told by those still lost in their illusive dreams that we should fear life...and most seem to belief them.

Take care
Ray

[Hervé]

Fascinating....

Here is my summary:

There's that camp which contends there's a real reality which doesn't encompass others' experiences since the latter are ridiculed as illusions/delusions and pegged as the biggest yarn ever spun around.

I can only conclude that holding such a position is not very enticing in confiding and bringing forth deep personal, traumatic experiences.

Ray asked why is it in my, or anyone's, reality; my answer is based on its therapeutic value: it works! As in releasing traumatic experiences to allow one to get on with a happier life.

That's all.

[Finefeather]

Fascinating....

Here is my summary:

There's that camp which contends there's a real reality which doesn't encompass others' experiences since the latter are ridiculed as illusions/delusions and pegged as the biggest yarn ever spun around.

I can only conclude that holding such a position is not very enticing in confiding and bringing forth deep personal, traumatic experiences.

Ray asked why is it in my, or anyone's, reality; my answer is based on its therapeutic value: it works! As in releasing traumatic experiences to allow one to get on with a happier life.

That's all.
Amzer that is a wonderful answer and deserves recognition thanks.

So once we have "realised traumatic experiences to allow one to get on with a happier life." what happens to the manifestation which was present in our reality, which caused us to believe that these "horrific" things actually existed?
This is known in esoterics as the great illusion...caused by our own idiologies whilst we are still in the process of consciously coming to terms with what's really real out there.

That brings us to the one of the benefits of interacting in a forum and in life...we can learn from other's experience.

Not everyone has to die a horrible death once in some life just to be able to say..."well I was also ripped apart and killed in my last life, so now I know how it is to be ripped apart and killed".

I would much rather want to say that I took note of those who gave me the tip to turn inside and find the true meaning and workings of life, instead of wasting my time with games which end us up in deep water.

It is a fallacy to think that we must all go through some trial by fire in order to know life...life on earth is more than enough of that...and only because of our current barbaric state of mind...despite the potential we have for so much joy and happiness...and you know what?...many people do experience the joy of life...why not look to them for answers rather than to those who's entire life is one of fear and misery?

Of course if that is what we want then it is our choice...no one is going to stop us from entering the den of the dragon...it's just a simple choice.

Take care now.
Ray

[Delight]

Fascinating....

Here is my summary:

There's that camp which contends there's a real reality which doesn't encompass others' experiences since the latter are ridiculed as illusions/delusions and pegged as the biggest yarn ever spun around.

I can only conclude that holding such a position is not very enticing in confiding and bringing forth deep personal, traumatic experiences.

Ray asked why is it in my, or anyone's, reality; my answer is based on its therapeutic value: it works! As in releasing traumatic experiences to allow one to get on with a happier life.

That's all.

I am in total agreement that trauma we have incurred and everyone has incurred is able to be healed. Also, I seriously expect that healing is the most important focus to get on with life. Also, I believe that all trauma is given clothing in our stories. i think that on the level of reported experience, all is story. It has a source.

My education was assisted by my mother's example. She had a story of trauma and fear and victimization that was way over the top. It included Nazis and torture and what I later thought looks like MK Ultra level mind control. I could not understand as a child that her stories were real to her, even when my experience did not coincide. She was a fractured being of totally different personalities.

I cannot prove or disprove what she believed at all. However, I saw that her story only encouraged more abuse. For instance, she was sometimes enraged by her unhappiness. She yelled and spoke badly berating her family. She accused people of being mean and hurtful. She felt constantly abandoned and GUESS what. Her husbands and her children abandoned her.

My mother was obsessed with doctors and illness and being an invalid. GUESS what. She lived 10 years in a nursing home because she was an invalid. But she also refused physical therapy and all in all, what I saw first hand is that we who cling to trauma do perpetuate trauma.

In a condition called borderline personality disorder (relevant are the symptoms not diagnosis) sufferers make drastic black/white splits, they idolize and demonize their fellow humans. The sufferers expect the worst. They experience MUCH REAL ABUSE. The very worst that can be imagined happens.

I wonder to myself, if we have a trauma and if it feels HORRIBLE, the mind may create a clothing that makes sense. So example, in my mother's case, I know she was not cuddled and comforted as her mother was cold and distant. Being such an emotional and sensitive being, my mother was hurt badly just in this garden variety lack of care. But there might have been a larger and more sinister conditioning that I cannot disprove.

The degree of narcissism that is being produced by garden variety neglect is large as it is. there may be larger negative forces involved. It may reach beyond the mundane to interdimensional?

HOWEVER, to the degree that we take on our trauma as something to be forgiven and released, I feel we open to a larger truth. the Universe is a Yes and seems to deliver almost any possibility we may feel as real. That says a lot about the kind of power we have to change experience by changing what we agree to receive.

I know for a fact that no one in my family was able to share their connection to a larger avenue of life healing that comes form the Ineffable Presence. God as I understand God is personal and helps me heal when I access that Presence.

Unfortunately the paranoia my mother felt blocked her own comfort. That was a large lesson. I am most fortunate that I decided to use her example as the way to forever being unhappy and at effect of evil (live backwards). maybe that was the greatest gift she ever gave me. I love this great being who was my mother and may her journey be blessed wherever she is now.

[greybeard]

Hi Amzer Zo
The camp which believes in enlightenment is massive.
Eckhart Tolle had five million people watching him on a IV series going over his book chapter by chapter.
His books have helped many people get out of suffering and he is just one enlightened writer.
If there is one characteristic that shines out of the enlightened its compassion.
They also want to share with you the peace that passeth all understanding that Jesus spoke of.

The evidence is overwhelming that there is a truth that is eternal.

Not one or two writers but thousands of years of testimony of personal experience.

Science is now starting to prove that there is no separation--everything is linked--string theory etc
Particles split and separated by thousands of miles react instantly at the same time--what affects one affects another.
We live in a conscious universe
Perhaps a holographic one.

Best wishes
Chris

[MalteseKnight]

Dear all

I believe that the relatively recent movie MOON http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1182345/ is very, very relevant to this discussion. Could it be that the answer is hidden in plain sight in the movie?

Regards to all...

MalteseKnight

[Milneman]

You don't either. None of you.

STR,,, Try again!! I do not come from a place where I am trying to describe a guess!!! I will not project my reality onto others,, you should not project yours onto others, either... To assume that others have not had direct experiences with 'White Light' phenomenon,,, is assuming waaaayyy too much. :) I have experienced such phenomenon during OBE and look,,,,, here I am! There is much more going on than what will be experienced as a brilliant white light. I don't believe in death. Too much experience outside my body!! It is impossible for you to sit there and tell me what I DON'T know!!

I have been on the side of those who consider that 'white light' phenomenon can be mimicked and used as a deception... Do I know that for sure,,, NO. I have had experiences with an astral locale that I refer to as 3D Black!!! It is an amazing thing to experience. It is total and complete blackness,, (or what we understand to be blackness,,, absence of 'light') There is a special/3-4D effect that is simply genious... You can judge distance without light... you can see without light... the space around you is vibrant and alive... It begins to 'glow' and the most amazing feeling of peace and fulfillment takes over... All of the love that I refuse myself, is within the 3d black... I have never been engulfed by a more 'whole' experience... Yet it was completely BLACK AND DARK!!! Do you see??? Maybe if you were with me,,, you would have seen a White light. Or if another person was with us,,, they'd see a purple light, or experience music!! Do you see??

I will admit that this discussion is limited to what we have experienced. Feel free to speculate on the 'white light' phenomenon...

STR, I am sorry about the passing of your friend... Again,,, I don't believe in death. White light or not,, we are forever!!! No matter what color of light shines on you when you feel peace,,, embrace it... Never assume that the color of light means any ONE thing....

Another thing,,, a person who is faced with the true brilliant white light, upon leaving the body will (usually) not be taking the advice of someone they had a discussion with, as they will be engulfed in the experience,, and likely not remember a damn thing that was said!! :)

Wayyyyy too much stuff going on 'out there' to be obsessed with the color of the light that brings you peace...

I am sorry for the passing of your friend.. It hits home. Sorry.
Jake.

Hey Jake!

I'm going to make a little trouble for you. ;)

Can you explain empirically how you know that your out of body experiences are like death?

One major difference I can see from the start is that I bet your body keeps functioning. (Not to say I don't believe OBE's are possible! I'm making trouble here. ;))

If your body does not "die" during an OBE how is that any way of knowing certainty about what happens when one leaves their body and it stops functioning?

:D

[Bongo]

instead we are told by those still lost in their illusive dreams that we should fear life

I am curious to know where the fear was being pushed on to you or anyone else? or at any point where you were being told to fear life?

As you should know fear is created by us, so if we accept to create fear we will, if we don't accept, we won't.

If anything the info on this thread is merely a warning to people that after death be aware that the light isn't what it appears to be, this like any other genuine warnings are to help people. If someone hears the warning and reacts to it creating fear it is not the issuer of the warnings fault but the person creating the fears fault. Why not listen to the warning as a observation without reaction and not get attached to it if you don't believe it.

I have had some very weird experiences in this life and have seen the bars of the prison I was in... was being the correct word. I do not fear what has happened to me but I will use my experiences to help people see something in their life that is a problem because it was a problem in mine. Whether people heed the warning is entirely up to them but painting the picture that these warnings are only their to create fear is madness and sounds like you are incapable of looking at the material without reacting to it, which in turn should be telling you that there is an issue being uncovered that needs your attention.

True awareness and understanding of the bad side looked at without fear will always keep us from falling in to the traps set by others. Other people can have an effect on your reality but only if you choose to accept it, without the awareness and understanding you can easily get caught... hence the warning.

Let me ask you another question, do you know if there is life after death?

how do you know this... by intuition? by memory? by experience? or by other peoples word? i.e. books and other such learned material

[Milneman]

Loony: all of the above. And do potatoes that wear kilts have their spuds in underwear? ;)

[Bongo]

Loony: all of the above. And do potatoes that wear kilts have their spuds in underwear? ;)

hahaha thats a haggis not a potato

[Delight]

instead we are told by those still lost in their illusive dreams that we should fear life

I am curious to know where the fear was being pushed on to you or anyone else? or at any point where you were being told to fear life?

As you should know fear is created by us, so if we accept to create fear we will, if we don't accept, we won't.

If anything the info on this thread is merely a warning to people that after death be aware that the light isn't what it appears to be, this like any other genuine warnings are to help people. If someone hears the warning and reacts to it creating fear it is not the issuer of the warnings fault but the person creating the fears fault. Why not listen to the warning as a observation without reaction and not get attached to it if you don't believe it.

True awareness and understanding of the bad side looked at without fear will always keep us from falling in to the traps set by others. Other people can have an effect on your reality but only if you choose to accept it, without the awareness and understanding you can easily get caught... hence the warning.

Let me ask you another question, do you know if there is life after death?

how do you know this... by intuition? by memory? by experience? or by other peoples word? i.e. books and other such learned material

Probably what is happening sometimes on threads may be like for me, a way to gain insight into one's own fears?
I know you asked someone else these questions but they are usefulto me so thank you for letting me share my concerns.

I do not believe or disbelieve in an afterlife because I have no idea as I don't recall.
however, i did feel when my husband died that i was lifted to a very high sense of wellbeing on the death he seemed to experience. It was just so clear from that feeling that all was well. There was nothing else but goodness and no need for stress about life. That is a feeling I revisist but never to the degree I felt it for weeks.

I crashed from that feeling one day outside Barnes and Nobles because of an argument I was engaging with a man I liked. It was not possible to feel the wellbeing and it was so painful and I sobbed on the street.

What WAS that state? I believe I shared my husbands feelings because later a psychic reported not knowing my story that a man was communicating his after death was a mystical experience.

So, I guess I am learning to trust I am not imprisoned except by my fears. And going back to the day I crashed, i saw later that it was a very trivial fear of not being liked that made me doubt EVERYTHING about myself at that moment and I brought myself "down" by my fear of rejection at that moment. Just simple mundane fears that we decide are problems get amplified into prisons by focus IMO. The mind is the builder of prisons IMO and we are all playing at deconstruction for a purpose.

[Hervé]

Thanks for the appreciation.


[...]
So once we have "realised traumatic experiences to allow one to get on with a happier life." what happens to the manifestation which was present in our reality, which caused us to believe that these "horrific" things actually existed?
[...]

... as much as one's memory of what one ate for lunch or diner yesterday or last month or years ago... it's an integral part of one's experience that doesn't hang on like a persistent, perpetual indigestion. Yet these meals were absorbed, weren't they?

My disagreement, accordingly, is with the claim that those meals were never ingested in the first place as well as with the dismissive attitude with respect to such experiences from those who claim to know better and who leave their fellows with permanent indigestions unattended.

The thing with the therapeutic value of the method used by Truman Cash or Bill Ryan is that the people relieved from their traumas in such a way don't even have to believe in past lives or UFOs or ETs or Djinns, etc.: it works all the same!

Where it becomes troubling is when one keeps running into similar incidents with various people and start wondering, where is that coming from? Why? What? Who? How? Etc....

What you, Ray, seem to fail to understand is that ultimately I agree with you as to the ultimate state you seem to look at reality -- I need not be convinced. Unfortunately, beings who are in that state, without ever having had such experiences, fail to recognize what's needed for beings mired down in oceans of unresolved traumas, be they really real or "imagined;" it's all real, all the same, to anyone in there.

Cheers!

[Finefeather]

instead we are told by those still lost in their illusive dreams that we should fear life

I am curious to know where the fear was being pushed on to you or anyone else? or at any point where you were being told to fear life?

As you should know fear is created by us, so if we accept to create fear we will, if we don't accept, we won't.

If anything the info on this thread is merely a warning to people that after death be aware that the light isn't what it appears to be, this like any other genuine warnings are to help people. If someone hears the warning and reacts to it creating fear it is not the issuer of the warnings fault but the person creating the fears fault. Why not listen to the warning as a observation without reaction and not get attached to it if you don't believe it.

I have had some very weird experiences in this life and have seen the bars of the prison I was in... was being the correct word. I do not fear what has happened to me but I will use my experiences to help people see something in their life that is a problem because it was a problem in mine. Whether people heed the warning is entirely up to them but painting the picture that these warnings are only their to create fear is madness and sounds like you are incapable of looking at the material without reacting to it, which in turn should be telling you that there is an issue being uncovered that needs your attention.

True awareness and understanding of the bad side looked at without fear will always keep us from falling in to the traps set by others. Other people can have an effect on your reality but only if you choose to accept it, without the awareness and understanding you can easily get caught... hence the warning.

Let me ask you another question, do you know if there is life after death?

how do you know this... by intuition? by memory? by experience? or by other peoples word? i.e. books and other such learned material
In following the thread it is clear to me that fear is been pushed because of the consequences, which some people are proposing, if you go into the light...been trapped etc.
I agree with you that it is a choice...but I do not agree with you that the warning is of any significance because it is my view that the warning is false.

I do know that there is life after death because I have been working out of body for around 40+ years now doing rescue work, going to halls of learning, meeting friends and very often just to enjoy myself and learn things.
I am conscious when I leave my body and I direct myself to where I need to go...I am conscious when I return to my body and am fully awake and remember everything that I did. The body is just an organism we use while we are awake in the physical.

Take care
Ray

My brother in law is a Scot now living in Johannesburg, South Africa and also has a fancy dress like you :)
He is from the Henderson clan.

[Finefeather]

What you, Ray, seem to fail to understand is that ultimately I agree with you as to the ultimate state you seem to look at reality -- I need not be convinced. Unfortunately, beings who are in that state, without ever having had such experiences, fail to recognize what's needed for beings mired down in oceans of unresolved traumas, be they really real or "imagined;" it's all real, all the same, to anyone in there.
Dear Amzer
Please do not see my communication as some sort of contest...I am definitely not trying to fight with you and I have a great regard for you and actually enjoy many of your posts.
If my tone seems to give you that impression then I apologise but I am not nearly as bad as I sound if we were to be sitting besides each other.

I am trying my best to write what is in my heart...I am not a great writer and often need to retype sentences over 2 or 3 times to make them sound like I am thinking them.
Sometimes I just give up because I cannot catch up with my thoughts and then I have a break and try again later :)
My intention on this thread is a genuine attempt to share my experiences with the hope that some of it may be of some use to someone out there.

With love brother
Ray

[Hervé]

[...]

Not one or two writers but thousands of years of testimony of personal experience.

[...]

Hi Chris,

No qualms about enlightment...

... qualms about why is this planet still in this state it is after these 1000s of years?

... and we are back to post # 9 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68916-Don-t-go-into-the-light-Discussion-thread&p=802808&viewfull=1#post802808)!

[Finefeather]

... qualms about why is this planet still in this state it is after these 1000s of years?

Amzer when ever I am in trouble in my mind I refer to these writings. I will say no more than for you to browse around and decide for yourself.
http://www.laurency.com/index.html

[Bongo]

Probably what is happening sometimes on threads may be like for me, a way to gain insight into one's own fears?
I know you asked someone else these questions but they are usefulto me so thank you for letting me share my concerns.

I do not believe or disbelieve in an afterlife because I have no idea as I don't recall.
however, i did feel when my husband died that i was lifted to a very high sense of wellbeing on the death he seemed to experience. It was just so clear from that feeling that all was well. There was nothing else but goodness and no need for stress about life. That is a feeling I revisist but never to the degree I felt it for weeks.

I crashed from that feeling one day outside Barnes and Nobles because of an argument I was engaging with a man I liked. It was not possible to feel the wellbeing and it was so painful and I sobbed on the street.

What WAS that state? I believe I shared my husbands feelings because later a psychic reported not knowing my story that a man was communicating his after death was a mystical experience.

So, I guess I am learning to trust I am not imprisoned except by my fears. And going back to the day I crashed, i saw later that it was a very trivial fear of not being liked that made me doubt EVERYTHING about myself at that moment and I brought myself "down" by my fear of rejection at that moment. Just simple mundane fears that we decide are problems get amplified into prisons by focus IMO. The mind is the builder of prisons IMO and we are all playing at deconstruction for a purpose.

I can tell you from my experience that there is life after death and you are on the right track, yours and others intuition ARE right... but there are pitfalls in this life that we can easily get caught up in i.e. other peoples/beings games. You are held to your agreements that you make, now these agreements can be held for life time after life time and cause unwanted misery in your life all while you are unaware of exactly how it was created. The purpose of me speaking up here is to make people aware of this, I was held by agreement by very vicious beings that effected me for many lifetimes... by my own agreement I might add and it matters not if the agreement was under duress (as mine was) it is still valid. The agreement I made was me giving up the rights to myself, giving these beings creative control over my lives. Being aware that this can and does happen rather than it being swept under the carpet as if it doesn't is why I am commenting, please don't fall in to these traps... a very dark path lies ahead if you do because you will not be in full control of your life. I have been their and it is no picnic.

One of the beings had me heavily implanted to the fact that I would return to it after I left the body and await instruction. The white light trap works similar so human beings can go straight back to it after the body dies rather than go back to where you came from (source... if you want to call it that). Go in to the light and some creative control gets taken away from you.

The idea is for each individual being to be free from any other being tampering or trapping them so that the individual being can create their own reality.

[greybeard]

[...]

Not one or two writers but thousands of years of testimony of personal experience.

[...]

Hi Chris,

No qualms about enlightment...

... qualms about why is this planet still in this state it is after these 1000s of years?

... and we are back to post # 9 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68916-Don-t-go-into-the-light-Discussion-thread&p=802808&viewfull=1#post802808)!

Yes I agree that for a hell of a lot of people this earthly experience is extremely painful.
I had a long experience of that hell through alcoholism.
I got into AA when it was in its infancy in UK---for the first time people were not only surviving the killer alcoholism but having a productive enjoyable in part anyway life. (The twelve steps of AA is a spiritual program)
Im just saying this to show that there is a progression.

Look at the level of comfort experienced by a lot of people.
Not that long ago an inside toilet was rare far less hot water in taps and central heating.
So much has happened just in my life time.
As far as spirituality goes when I started the only books available about enlightenment were translation from Indian teachers.
Then Yogananda and others went to America and wrote books in English.

All this has a knock on affect raising consciousness.

I there is a devastating earth quake people dig deeply into their pockets to help others they will never meet.

Compassion is more prevalent.

I believe consciousness is rising---enlightenment was very rare, however it would now seem that the numbers of enlightened souls is increasing fairly rapidly.
If a spiritual book sold a few thousand that was miraculous. Now the books by Eckhart Tolle and others reach the no1 best seller (New York Times)
Millions of copies of The Power of Now have been sold throughout the world.
These books uplift people and in some cases healing happens, perception changes.
I could go on Amzer Zo

I just depends where one chooses to look.
Eckhart answered in response to a question Yes the bad is getting worse but the good is getting better--its just that the bad makes more noise and is therefore more noticeable.
He said the human race is becoming more dysfunctional and that's normal before massive change happens.

Best wishes
Chris

[Shane]

Why is incarnating into a human vehicle such a bad thing? Well.. It's not.. unless you're still giving power to every thing and every one except yourself. If you want off this planet, you haven't learned what you came here for yet. You'll understand 4D beings perfectly well when you become one. You aren't able to become, if you're too busy fearing white lights and Draco reptilians or anything else. Take responsibility for yourself and resist blaming it all on others.

Holographic universe: Look at it as a video game, an RPG.

You "grind" and earn points for your work. Those points increase your level (you "level up"). When your level is high enough (because you've put in the work on yourself) you proceed to the next stage and can contend with the challenges there. It you jump into stage 4 while you are still a personal level 3, well.. "you're gonna have a bad time". Come back to stage 4 when you are level 4. While playing the game and "grinding" if you die, you lose your inventory, and you start the stage again, which you will continue to do until your level is high enough to contend with stage 4. Simple, but true, and examples the purpose of reincarnation.

"They" have all these "plans" and "traps" and therefor it it THEIR fault the world "is the way it is" and so we should all get out of here. I know this is much easier than admitting WE have failed, or made mistakes or squandered gifts and responsibility by becoming dependent on "other races" or "Gods".

Just maybe, if you lose your memory and start over again back at square one.. Perhaps, this is a sign that you skipped too many important steps in your last visit. Maybe YOU want you to repeat the experience and do "better".

No never mind.. The reptilians made a trap for you.

[dianna]

Why is incarnating into a human vehicle such a bad thing? Well.. It's not.. unless you're still giving power to every thing and every one except yourself. If you want off this planet, you haven't learned what you came here for yet. You'll understand 4D beings perfectly well when you become one. You aren't able to become, if you're too busy fearing white lights and Draco reptilians or anything else. Take responsibility for yourself and resist blaming it all on others.



Thank You ...

[Synchronicity]

I truly do not understand why this is so back and forth. Warnings were posted. Some agree, some don't. The issue doesn't seem to me to be anything anyone but the individual will face, and since warnings were posted, why can't each of us just choose for ourselves without anyone else assuming that s/he KNOWS it is a trap or KNOWS it can't be? In the last moments of people's lives (and I have been there for many, many, deaths and crossings and end of life times, meetings on the other side, visits from there, and so forth...and yes, that is my perception as readers choosing to accept my statement or think I am nuts have theirs) they aren't thinking about earthly things like books they read or warnings on websites or assurances on websites at that time and aren't really connected to the body much when ready to move on. They may still hold fears they were taught, but that usually eases as they see what is going on and disconnect from body.

What happens, happens, and there is such a transcendence or energy and loosening from the physical body that I can honestly say I have never felt/heard/seen/known anyone sitting around thinking about the light or not the light. There is more of a looking over the big picture, sometimes a bit of fear of punishment if the person was religious and taught to fear judgement, and if the person is fanatically religious there is sometimes terror. But most are pretty ready, and if they aren't quite they don't go yet. They may want messages passed on or want to know the loved ones will be okay, but I have never seen one yet (and my NDE I didn't either) who really was on the way running the other direction or quoting about things s/he read. I deal with many who don't cross because they are confused or don't feel they are finished with something, but not everyone even sees the light in the first place, so it isn't the central issue in the whole process anyway.

If it's sudden it is a bit different and things may need to be finished up, but hey, my experience counts squat to someone who feels the light is bad or a trap, and that is between the person and whatever the situation is...it is their experience at the end and not anyone else's, and not everyone sees the lifetimes experience as repeated recycling for ages and ages. Some feel if you figure out what you are there to figure out you move on and some end up guiding others or greeting those who need it or whatever. But I sure can't prove that and I haven't met anyone who can.

But all that aside and who cares what I think when that moment comes? And who can prove any of what anyone says relating to these things anyway? These aren't absolutes and there is no right or wrong answer...maybe it is a trap for those who think it is...or not...who knows? Maybe we're all living in a little snow globe and some kids are laughing at us trying to figure it all out as they shake us. Or maybe each person learns, grows, lets go of some belief, gets another one, and the cycle goes on throughout life and then we move on or we don't.

Whatever the case, I personally choose to do the best I can and am not going to be telling people who are about to die to avoid lights or go for one or whatever...everyone figures out what feels right to him or her and if the time is right heads that way stepping over. If someone gets confused or needs help at that time or after it is available...but hey, that's my take on it and I know that mine is just mine...I don't see why there have to be absolutes or only one right way to look at things like this? Thanks for all the information on the thread and I would say it has inspired some consideration of the readers' beliefs. :)

[Billy]

Just throwing in Some food for thought.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation04.html

About Mellen-Thomas Benedict

Mellen-Thomas Benedict's NDE resulted in perhaps the greatest fundamental transformation of any near-death experiencer ever documented. Miraculously, Benedict returned to his body with a complete remission of the disease. The advanced scientific knowledge he brought back from his NDE led him to numerous scientific discoveries and U.S. and foreign patents (see www.lighthealthresearch.com). Ever since his NDE, Benedict has maintained his direct access to Universal Intelligence, and returns to the light at will. This enables him to be a bridge between science and spirit and allows him to develop new technologies for health and wellness. Benedict discovered living cells can respond very quickly to light stimulation resulting in, among other things, high speed healing. NDE expert Dr. Kenneth Ring says of Benedict:
"Mellen-Thomas has the big picture. His story is one of the most remarkable I have encountered in extensive research on near-death experiences. It is very rare that those who have died and returned have seen into the future to the extent that Mellen has. His vision of the future is one of hope. He has participated in studies of a major university where he contributed to understanding the structure of genes and chromosome coding for a genetic disease, while researchers puzzled over how he could have access to this information." - Dr. Kenneth Ring.

Mellen-Thomas Benedict's Near-Death Experience

Snip:
There was this light shining. I turned toward the light. The light was very similar to what many other people have described in their near-death experiences. It was so magnificent. It is tangible; you can feel it. It is alluring; you want to go to it like you would want to go to your ideal mother's or father's arms.

As I began to move toward the light, I knew intuitively that if I went to the light, I would be dead.

So as I was moving toward the light I said, "Please wait a minute, just hold on a second here. I want to think about this; I would like to talk to you before I go."

To my surprise, the entire experience halted at that point. You are indeed in control of your near-death experience. You are not on a roller coaster ride. So my request was honored and I had some conversations with the light. The light kept changing into different figures, like Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, mandalas, archetypal images and signs.

I asked the light, "What is going on here? Please, light, clarify yourself for me. I really want to know the reality of the situation."

I cannot really say the exact words, because it was sort of telepathy. The light responded. The information transferred to me was that your beliefs shape the kind of feedback you are getting before the light. If you were a Buddhist or Catholic or Fundamentalist, you get a feedback loop of your own stuff. You have a chance to look at it and examine it, but most people do not.

As the light revealed itself to me, I became aware that what I was really seeing was our Higher Self matrix. The only thing I can tell you is that it turned into a matrix, a mandala of human souls, and what I saw was that what we call our Higher Self in each of us is a matrix. It's also a conduit to the Source; each one of us comes directly, as a direct experience from the Source. We all have a Higher Self, or an oversoul part of our being. It revealed itself to me in its truest energy form. The only way I can really describe it is that the being of the Higher Self is more like a conduit. It did not look like that, but it is a direct connection to the Source that each and every one of us has. We are directly connected to the Source.

So the light was showing me the Higher Self matrix. And it became very clear to me that all the Higher Selves are connected as one being, all humans are connected as one being, we are actually the same being, different aspects of the same being. It was not committed to one particular religion. So that is what was being fed back to me. And I saw this mandala of human souls. It was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen. I just went into it and, it was just overwhelming. It was like all the love you've every wanted, and it was the kind of love that cures, heals, regenerates.

As I asked the light to keep explaining, I understood what the Higher Self matrix is. We have a grid around the planet where all the Higher Selves are connected. This is like a great company, a next subtle level of energy around us, the spirit level, you might say.

Then, after a couple of minutes, I asked for more clarification. I really wanted to know what the universe is about, and I was ready to go at that time.

I said, "I am ready, take me."
Return to Top
4. The River of Life

Then the light turned into the most beautiful thing that I have ever seen: a mandala of human souls on this planet.

Now I came to this with my negative view of what has happened on the planet. So as I asked the light to keep clarifying for me, I saw in this magnificent mandala how beautiful we all are in our essence, our core. We are the most beautiful creations. The human soul, the human matrix that we all make together is absolutely fantastic, elegant, exotic, everything. I just cannot say enough about how it changed my opinion of human beings in that instant.

I said, "Oh, God, I did not know how beautiful we are."

At any level, high or low, in whatever shape you are in, you are the most beautiful creation, you are.

I was astonished to find that there was no evil in any soul.

I said, "How can this be?"

The answer was that no soul was inherently evil. The terrible things that happened to people might make them do evil things, but their souls were not evil. What all people seek, what sustains them, is love, the light told me. What distorts people is a lack of love.

The revelations coming from the light seemed to go on and on, then I asked the light, "Does this mean that humankind will be saved?"

Then, like a trumpet blast with a shower of spiraling lights, the Great Light spoke, saying:
"Remember this and never forget; you save, redeem and heal yourself. You always have. You always will. You were created with the power to do so from before the beginning of the world."
In that instant I realized even more. I realized that WE HAVE ALREADY BEEN SAVED, and we saved ourselves because we were designed to self-correct like the rest of God's universe. This is what the second coming is about.

I thanked the light of God with all my heart. The best thing I could come up with was these simple words of totally appreciation: "Oh dear God, dear Universe, dear Great Self, I love my life."

The light seemed to breathe me in even more deeply. It was as if the light was completely absorbing me. The love light is, to this day, indescribable. I entered into another realm, more profound than the last, and became aware of something more, much more. It was an enormous stream of light, vast and full, deep in the heart of life. I asked what this was.

The light responded:
"This is the RIVER OF LIFE. Drink of this manna water to your heart's content."
So I did. I took one big drink and then another. To drink of life Itself! I was in ecstasy.

Then the light said:
"You have a desire."
The light knew all about me, everything past, present and future.

"Yes!" I whispered.

I asked to see the rest of the universe; beyond our solar system, beyond all human illusion. The light then told me that I could go with the Stream. I did, and was carried through the light at the end of the tunnel. I felt and heard a series of very soft sonic booms. What a rush!

Suddenly I seemed to be rocketing away from the planet on this stream of life. I saw the Earth fly away. The solar system, in all its splendor, whizzed by and disappeared. At faster than light speed, I flew through the center of the galaxy, absorbing more knowledge as I went. I learned that this galaxy, and all of the universe, is bursting with many different varieties of LIFE. I saw many worlds. The good news is that we are not alone in this universe!

As I rode this stream of consciousness through the center of the galaxy, the stream was expanding in awesome fractal waves of energy. The super clusters of galaxies with all their ancient wisdom flew by. At first I thought I was going somewhere; actually traveling. But then I realized that, as the stream was expanding, my own consciousness was also expanding to take in everything in the universe! All creation passed by me. It was an unimaginable wonder! I truly was a wonder child; a babe in Wonderland!

It seemed as if all the creations in the universe soared by me and vanished in a speck of light. Almost immediately, a second light appeared. It came from all sides, and was so different; a light made up of more than every frequency in the universe.

5. The Void

I felt and heard several velvety sonic booms again. My consciousness, or being, was expanding to interface with the entire holographic universe and more.

As I passed into the second light, the awareness came to me that I had just transcended the truth. Those are the best words I have for it, but I will try to explain. As I passed into the second light, I expanded beyond the first light. I found myself in a profound stillness, beyond all silence. I could see or perceive FOREVER, beyond infinity. I was in the void. I was in pre-creation, before the Big Bang. I had crossed over the beginning of time - the first word - the first vibration. I was in the eye of creation. I felt as if I was touching the face of God. It was not a religious feeling. Simply I was at one with absolute life and consciousness.

When I say that I could see or perceive forever, I mean that I could experience all of creation generating itself. It was without beginning and without end. That's a mind-expanding thought, isn't it? Scientists perceive the Big Bang as a single event which created the universe. I saw that the Big Bang is only one of an infinite number of Big Bangs creating universes endlessly and simultaneously. The only images that even come close in human terms would be those created by supercomputers using fractal geometry equations.

The ancients knew of this. They said Godhead periodically created new universes by breathing out, and de-creating other universes by breathing in. These epochs were called yugas. Modern science called this the Big Bang. I was in absolute, pure consciousness. I could see or perceive all the Big Bangs or yugas creating and de-creating themselves. Instantly I entered into them all simultaneously. I saw that each and every little piece of creation has the power to create. It is very difficult to try to explain this. I am still speechless about this.

It took me years after I returned to assimilate any words at all for the void experience. I can tell you this now; the void is less than nothing, yet more than everything that is! The void is absolute zero; chaos forming all possibilities. It is absolute consciousness; much more than even universal intelligence.

Where is the void? I know. The void is inside and outside everything. You, right now even while you live, are always inside and outside the void simultaneously. You don't have to go anywhere or die to get there. The void is the vacuum or nothingness between all physical manifestations. The SPACE between atoms and their components. Modern science has begun to study this space between everything. They call it zero-point. Whenever they try to measure it, their instruments go off the scale, or to infinity, so to speak. They have no way, as of yet, to measure infinity accurately. There is more of the zero space in your own body and the universe than anything else!

What mystics call the void is not a void. It is so full of energy, a different kind of energy that has created everything that we are. Everything since the Big Bang is vibration, from the first word, which is the first vibration.

The Biblical "I am" really has a question mark after it: "I am? What am I?"

So creation is God exploring God's Self through every way imaginable, in an ongoing, infinite exploration through every one of us. Through every piece of hair on your head, through every leaf on every tree, through every atom, God is exploring God's Self, the great "I am". I began to see that everything that is, is the Self, literally, your Self, my Self. Everything is the great Self. That is why God knows even when a leaf falls. That is possible because wherever you are is the center of the universe. Wherever any atom is, that is the center of the universe. There is God in that, and God in the void.

As I was exploring the void and all the yugas or creations, I was completely out of time and space as we know it. In this expanded state, I discovered that creation is about absolute pure consciousness, or God, coming into the experience of life as we know it. The void itself is devoid of experience. It is pre-life, before the first vibration. Godhead is about more than life and death. Therefore there is even more than life and death to experience in the universe!

I was in the void and I was aware of everything that had ever been created. It was like I was looking out of God's eyes. I had become God. Suddenly I wasn't me anymore. The only thing I can say, I was looking out of God's eyes. And suddenly I knew why every atom was, and I could see everything.

The interesting point was that I went into the void, I came back with this understanding that God is not there. God is here. That's what it is all about. So this constant search of the human race to go out and find God ... God gave everything to us, everything is here - this is where it's at. And what we are into now is God's exploration of God through us. People are so busy trying to become God that they ought to realize that we are already God and God is becoming us. That's what it is really about.

When I realized this, I was finished with the void, and wanted to return to this creation, or yuga. It just seemed like the natural thing to do.

Then I suddenly came back through the second light, or the Big Bang, hearing several more velvet booms. I rode the stream of consciousness back through all of creation, and what a ride it was! The superclusters of galaxies came through me with even more insights. I passed through the center of our galaxy, which is a black hole. Black holes are the great processors or recyclers of the universe. Do you know what is on the other side of a black hole? We are; our galaxy; which has been reprocessed from another universe.

In its total energy configuration, the galaxy looked like a fantastic city of lights. All energy this side of the Big Bang is light. Every sub-atom, atom, star, planet, even consciousness itself is made of light and has a frequency and/or particle. Light is living stuff. Everything is made of light, even stones. So everything is alive. Everything is made from the light of God; everything is very intelligent.


6. The Light of Love

As I rode the stream on and on, I could eventually see a huge light coming. I knew it was the first light; the Higher Self light matrix of our solar system. Then the entire solar system appeared in the light, accompanied by one of those velvet booms.

I saw that the solar system we live in is our larger, local body. This is our local body and we are much bigger than we imagine. I saw that the solar system is our body. I am a part of this, and the Earth is this great created being that we are, and we are the part of it that knows that it is. But we are only that part of it. We are not everything, but we are that part of it that knows that it is.

I could see all the energy that this solar system generates, and it is an incredible light show! I could hear the music of the spheres. Our solar system, as do all celestial bodies, generates a unique matrix of light, sound and vibratory energies. Advanced civilizations from other star systems can spot life as we know it in the universe by the vibratory or energy matrix imprint. It is child's play. The Earth's wonder child (human beings) make an abundance of sound right now, like children playing in the backyard of the universe.

I rode the stream directly into the center of the light. I felt embraced by the light as it took me in with its breath again, followed by another soft sonic boom.

I was in this great light of love with the stream of life flowing through me. I have to say again, it is the most loving, non-judgmental light. It is the ideal parent for this wonder child.

"What now?" I wondered.

The light explained to me that there is no death; we are immortal beings. We have already been alive forever! I realized that we are part of a natural living system that recycles itself endlessly. I was never told that I had to come back. I just knew that I would. It was only natural, from what I had seen.

I don't know how long I was with the light, in human time. But there came a moment when I realized that all my questions had been answered and my return was near. When I say that all my questions were answered on the other side, I mean to say just that. All my questions have been answered. Every human has a different life and set of questions to explore. Some of our questions are universal, but each of us is exploring this thing we call life in our own unique way. So is every other form of life, from mountains to every leaf on every tree.

And that is very important to the rest of us in this universe. Because it all contributes to the Big Picture, the fullness of life. We are literally God exploring God's Self in an infinite Dance of Life. Your uniqueness enhances all of life.

7. His Return to Earth. more here. http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation04.html

peace.

[greybeard]

Food for thought Billy?
That was a full meal and enjoyable one at that.

To a greater or lesser degree most NDE people say similar.
Dannion Brinkley was completely changed by the experience and said that which meets you is your very own Self ie The Ultimate--you are That.
He became a hospice volunteer.
His story was the first documented to any degree.

Anita Moorjani had a miraculous recovery from terminal cancer and on it goes.
These are life experiences worth spending time on examining --doing this removes any concept that going into the light is in any way less than beneficial.
There are countless NDE shared on u tube and in books in a positive fashion.
Those who say dont go into the light are very few in number and are not bringing back from the other side a wealth of positive uplifting information, some leading to inventions.

Chris

[gripreaper]

To a greater or lesser degree most NDE people say similar. Dannion Brinkley was completely changed by the experience and said that which meets you is your very own Self ie The Ultimate--you are That. He became a hospice volunteer.
His story was the first documented to any degree.

Anita Moorjani had a miraculous recovery from terminal cancer and on it goes. These are life experiences worth spending time on examining --doing this removes any concept that going into the light is in any way less than beneficial. There are countless NDE shared on u tube and in books in a positive fashion. Those who say dont go into the light are very few in number and are not bringing back from the other side a wealth of positive uplifting information, some leading to inventions.

Chris

I highlighted Anita Moriani's story in it's own thread two years ago here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43020-Near-Death-Experience-Dying-To-be-Me) and it got very little play, but her story is quite astonishing, at least in my pea pickin mind.

What we fear, we create. Thanks for bringing her story to our attention again.

[greybeard]

The thing is gripreaper --people will follow bizarre stories that only have that persons say so--ie it is an unconfirmed personal experience, no witnesses.
Im not saying it did not happen and I am talking in general terms--- but thinking back, as an example, to the Charles story and the mayhem that occurred here.

On the other hand you have Anita Moorjani sharing her story and there is a wealth of medical testimony that there was no recovery possible and then within a very short period of coming out of coma massive Growths just atrophied--just not possible--in other words a miracle.

Same with other NDEs mentioned on this thread.

Its personal choice as to who and what you believe and what you do with it.
My rule of thumb is "Does this belief serve me well, right now?

Chris

[Delight]

Food for thought Billy?
That was a full meal and enjoyable one at that.

To a greater or lesser degree most NDE people say similar.
Dannion Brinkley was completely changed by the experience and said that which meets you is your very own Self ie The Ultimate--you are That.
He became a hospice volunteer.
His story was the first documented to any degree.

Anita Moorjani had a miraculous recovery from terminal cancer and on it goes.
These are life experiences worth spending time on examining --doing this removes any concept that going into the light is in any way less than beneficial.
There are countless NDE shared on u tube and in books in a positive fashion.
Those who say dont go into the light are very few in number and are not bringing back from the other side a wealth of positive uplifting information, some leading to inventions.

Chris

Thanks Billy and Chris for reminding of real people who have had the same kind of experience
Chris has posted several links to Anita's story including this interview with Alan Steinfeld.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-and-related-matters.&p=740260&viewfull=1#post740260

It is a really fine one and she says all we need to do is "be ourselves". I can't help but think the angst of those fearful of after life also have other fears and maybe at core a few similar beliefs such as "not being good enough"? Just my own personal question...Do I feel worthy of LOVE just because I am me? Well, I didn't always feel worthy certainly!! A wicked witch turned me into a newt but I got better (hehe).

[greybeard]

The One who said "I am the light" will still be remembered in another 2000 years.
We are the light too.
Go back to source? We are That too.
People expressing go back, or dont go back, to source are not in full understanding of Spiritual Truth.

What brought that to mind is that I was at a funeral today and though not being a Christian as such I can appreciate the service and the words.
Jesus said many thing echoed by past and present enlightened souls.
"The Kingdom is within."
"Of myself I do nothing, It is the Father within."

God is not to be found in anything external though there too--the finding is an end to the internal search, with the realisation that you are source--I am.
That.
With that realisation there is an end to reincarnation.

Chris

[Ron Mauer Sr]

The One who said "I am the light" will still be remembered in another 2000 years.
We are the light too.
<snip>

We all can say that.

When I say with confidence the affirmation:
"I am the Light, I am the resurrection, I am that I am."

I often feel the wave of energy flow through my physical vehicle.

I believe our apparent separation from Source is an illusion, that separation is an impossibility.

[heyokah]

Great Spirit Prayer
by Yellow Hawk, Sioux Chief


Oh, Great Spirit, whose voice I hear in the wind, whose breath gives life to all the world. Hear me;

I need your strength and wisdom.
Let me walk in beauty, and make my eyes ever behold the red and purple sunset.
Make my hands respect the things you have made and my ears sharp to hear your voice.
Make me wise so that I may understand the things you have taught my people.

Help me to remain calm and strong in the face of all that comes towards me.
Let me learn the lessons you have hidden in every leaf and rock.
Help me seek pure thoughts and act with the intention of helping others.
Help me find compassion without empathy overwhelming me.

I seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy - Myself.
Make me always ready to come to you with clean hands and straight eyes.
So when life fades, as the fading sunset, my spirit may come to you without shame.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGPTjpK-Q6A

[Sidney]

Forgive me if this has already been posted but I found it to be another interesting explanation regarding the light (and everything else) as being a trap. Regardless of Simons explanation, this video happens to back up Simons explanation. This video is also full of things I had not heard, or thought of. But much of it resonates with how I think things are being manipulated on this planet.

There are some frightening ideologies here. I do not necessarily believe everything in this video, but I do find much of it to be a real possibility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJzI7_ayXtA

[Sidney]

OR, is it another way to create fear. I will not rule that out.

[greybeard]

I know I go on about it but you are not your body Sidney
Aliens may well have modified the body but there is no way they could modify that which you truly are.
Having studied ego for some time I would say that the powers that be are a mirror and perhaps a manifestation of ego.
That desire to control through fear is a trademark of ego and also The Powers That Be.
It creates dependency on some outside authority, a greater than I.

You are That eternal being, Source,

There is nothing more powerful than you, as you are the Totality. all of it.

Pure awareness is what you are--there is nothing separate or external in ultimate Truth.
There is only Love or fear in duality.
I look at thoughts and examine where they are taking me.
Is this enhancing my life --is it relevant to now---is it promoting well being or something else entirely?
II would be wary of anything that even hints at something to fear, implying its for your for your own good.

You learn quick enough not to step in front of buses all by yourself--its inbuilt--you dont need fear to survive.

Taken by itself the statement "Dont go into the light" is very dogmatic and implies that this is absolutely true.

I accept that is is not in context but it is the heading of the thread.

Anyway free will is there.

Chris

[Sidney]

Yes, one part that did not make any sense to me (if I heard her correctly) is that they take you and kill you all over again. Well, either way, you are not dead. And I find it hard to believe that if you die, they shove you back into your body and do whatever with it. But I do feel that there is a great lack of understanding as to what really happens within and between all the other dimensions. I hear what people have seen (as far as interdimensional entities) during OBEs, so when you die, there may be much more of that waiting around. It also seems that she believes that they do not prey on just anyone. But they seem to prey on the same ones that they do here on the planet. Certain bloodlines etc.
I am also curious if anyone else here would have any other experience with the backward recordings. I found that whole thing fascinating.

Something else that rang true was the idea, that what we see when we die is dependent upon our belief system. what are in our thoughts. (that is where the red flag comes in). If we have these creatures in our mind then thats what we are going to see. Are they attracted to those who are thinking about them, studying them. Are we brainwashing ourselves with thoughts of them which is sending out a beacon for them to come at harrass (or eat)us, (regardless of being on earth or after death), ?

If you see a scary movie then go to bed, you are likely to have nightmares. Same concept.

Is one persons reality, different from the next? Maybe this particular scenario is exactly her reality, but nobody elses.

[STR]

I had a near death experience. After this my life changed all for the better. In record time I changed. So fast in fact people began to question my health because I went from 220 pound average to today 175 lbs and made little noticed or discipline changes just happened as if natural. Many other things changed also. I'd know when the phone was going to ring. Spooked some. I'd write things down and not remember doing it and then find it was rather predictive in nature. Dreams came true. All good things really. Nothing bad. The light experience was good not bad. It was peace. I saw a crystal city, calm water, calm souls and it felt of recovery and healing. I felt warmth. This is my memory. Its what I brought back. If fake it is very good as I recall nothing sinister, nothing dark.

What did I bring back? I brought the world the low ride pocket clip for folding knives. Before me it didn't exist. I started them, now they are everywhere, showing up even on manufactured knives and I do quite well, am world famous actually in knife circles anyway, something out side the field I worked in all my life before my accident in 1998, that being dentistry. I went completely away from it. Again, albeit a natural movement with little friction or discomfort. I just flowed from one to the other and today you can't hardly go to any knife show in the world that you are not standing near someone with one of my pocket clips on a knife. I recently designed a new folder that Great Eastern Cutlery out of Penn. USA produces called the STR Electricians. (STREK is used rather fondly by some fans now on forums also) Al after my accident and I didn't see any of it coming or plan it really. Just fell into place as if when I got back I had a new path. Maybe I'm not me, or not the same soul, a walk in or whatever but regardless I have some questions even with my own rather eye opening experiences.

If you have amnesia how would you know real from fake? If you have amnesia how would you know yourself if you saw yourself somehow? How would you recognize your family, friends, loved ones? Okay so you wouldn't and therefore there is no definitive way to know absolutely with certainty the truth. But what if the truth were this? Its not sinister! Its beautiful, its one growing living experiencing organism and you are but a single and rather simple cell in said organism among many others by the way and each one functions under the same set of rules and principles. As above so it is below. I say to you half the experiences of horror I read about are self created by sky is falling mentality. People are so geared to drift to sinister. What if the reptile you keep seeing or that you hear from is your kin? Have you seen yourself to even know what you are? How would you know your father or mother if you run from them because you forgot oh yeah, I look like that also? You see some alien looking thing by the bed of your kid at night instantly you think, some alien is taking my baby! What if that is your baby outside her or his body? Whats more how would you know that unless you question and discern instead of being consumed by the sinister? We must maintain some reason in all this fear. Also, it is rather bold to take away someone's length and real experience when real events that transpired and were documented can show the positive event changes that occur from such an event as a simple astral event of leaving one's body. To be outside your shell even for a brief time is a wonderful experience and each time for me was nothing at all in the way of engaging any such evils as those described. Nothing like at all.

With that said tho, I recognize that you get what you ask for. Universe has a way of giving us what we seek. It also has a unique way of hearing us. Universe hears us asking for what we want. When you seek sinister, universe, the one, the living responsive organism that is us gives it to you. Why anyone would be surprised by this is the fabric of another discussion. Seek joy and beauty! I guarantee she'll give it to ya!

[Sidney]

I had a near death experience. After this my life changed all for the better. In record time I changed. So fast in fact people began to question my health because I went from 220 pound average to today 175 lbs and made little noticed or discipline changes just happened as if natural. Many other things changed also. I'd know when the phone was going to ring. Spooked some. I'd write things down and not remember doing it and then find it was rather predictive in nature. Dreams came true. All good things really. Nothing bad. The light experience was good not bad. It was peace. I saw a crystal city, calm water, calm souls and it felt of recovery and healing. I felt warmth. This is my memory. Its what I brought back. If fake it is very good as I recall nothing sinister, nothing dark.


What did I bring back? I brought the world the low ride pocket clip for folding knives. Before me it didn't exist. I started them, now they are everywhere, showing up even on manufactured knives and I do quite well, am world famous actually in knife circles anyway, something out side the field I worked in all my life before my accident in 1998, that being dentistry. I went completely away from it. Again, albeit a natural movement with little friction or discomfort. I just flowed from one to the other and today you can't hardly go to any knife show in the world that you are not standing near someone with one of my pocket clips on a knife. I recently designed a new folder that Great Eastern Cutlery out of Penn. USA produces called the STR Electricians. (STREK is used rather fondly by some fans now on forums also) Al after my accident and I didn't see any of it coming or plan it really. Just fell into place as if when I got back I had a new path. Maybe I'm not me, or not the same soul, a walk in or whatever but regardless I have some questions even with my own rather eye opening experiences.

If you have amnesia how would you know real from fake? If you have amnesia how would you know yourself if you saw yourself somehow? How would you recognize your family, friends, loved ones? Okay so you wouldn't and therefore there is no definitive way to know absolutely with certainty the truth. But what if the truth were this? Its not sinister! Its beautiful, its one growing living experiencing organism and you are but a single and rather simple cell in said organism among many others by the way and each one functions under the same set of rules and principles. As above so it is below. I say to you half the experiences of horror I read about are self created by sky is falling mentality. People are so geared to drift to sinister. What if the reptile you keep seeing or that you hear from is your kin? Have you seen yourself to even know what you are? How would you know your father or mother if you run from them because you forgot oh yeah, I look like that also? You see some alien looking thing by the bed of your kid at night instantly you think, some alien is taking my baby! What if that is your baby outside her or his body? Whats more how would you know that unless you question and discern instead of being consumed by the sinister? We must maintain some reason in all this fear. Also, it is rather bold to take away someone's length and real experience when real events that transpired and were documented can show the positive event changes that occur from such an event as a simple astral event of leaving one's body. To be outside your shell even for a brief time is a wonderful experience and each time for me was nothing at all in the way of engaging any such evils as those described. Nothing like at all.

With that said tho, I recognize that you get what you ask for. Universe has a way of giving us what we seek. It also has a unique way of hearing us. Universe hears us asking for what we want. When you seek sinister, universe, the one, the living responsive organism that is us gives it to you. Why anyone would be surprised by this is the fabric of another discussion. Seek joy and beauty! I guarantee she'll give it to ya!

Very beautifully said!!!!

[huyi82]

Forgive me if this has already been posted but I found it to be another interesting explanation regarding the light (and everything else) as being a trap. Regardless of Simons explanation, this video happens to back up Simons explanation. This video is also full of things I had not heard, or thought of. But much of it resonates with how I think things are being manipulated on this planet.

There are some frightening ideologies here. I do not necessarily believe everything in this video, but I do find much of it to be a real possibility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJzI7_ayXtA

Thank you for the video, this is why we should never believe what psychics say it's all channelled information from a unknown source, also the fact that the lower astral realms are hidden from view when psychics talk to the dead says something, the real suffering is really there, i think that is the point, we suffer in this physical life and we suffer in the astral, it's all energy food for the reptilians either way, going to check out her website too, people like her are trying to peice together the peice of the puzzle of this whole matrix construction.

[Pilote Tempête]

Amzer Zo,

The answer is simple, there's been no improvement because there is no reincarnation. And the NDE is an hallucination. This does not mean there is no after-life--there is, but it's physical but in another frequency, n that's why ghosts can be seen n heard n spirits can be seen n heard by mediums.

[Bill Ryan]

Amzer Zo,

The answer is simple, there's been no improvement because there is no reincarnation. And the NDE is an hallucination. This does not mean there is no after-life--there is, but it's physical but in another frequency, n that's why ghosts can be seen n heard n spirits can be seen n heard by mediums.

Well, then, the many dozens of detailed lifetimes I've recalled and processed (and the many hundreds of thousands recalled by others, also) -- must all be a delusion! :)

[Pilote Tempête]

They're memories, not experiences.

There is more evidence against reincarnation than for it. The following is a summary of the evidence against it.

1. the "inter-life" period is never remembered other than under hypnosis where it can easily be due to artificial generation since the person in these sessions believes in reincarnation to begin with

2. the "inter-life" period is identical to the NDE except for the reincarnation component (most NDExperiencers deny reincarnation so if the NDE consists of a real experience it contradicts reincarnation and if it is false than so is reincarnation because of the striking similarity to the "interlife" period or at least makes it very suspect

3. the ZPF (zero-point field) is the explanation for the illusion of reincarnation as it is the Akashic Record of the esoteric and so contains all the memories and in an altered state such as hypnosis, dreams, and early childhood (where the brain is only beginning to develop) actual past lives can be remembered and are remembered by people as if they were their own (The Field, Lynne McTaggart, 2002); the explanation that all past life memories are acquired through other means is weak as in most cases the person had no knowledge of that past person and the idea that they only or mostly remember famous people is a complete myth as such cases are rare.

4. many in the spiritualist movement, particularly the British or Anglo-American brand, of the 18 and early 1900s, and still some today, rejected reincarnation; it makes much more sense that souls would evolve in the afterlife, as some spiritualism held, than in this life which affords little, if any, opportunity for learning and growth in any spiritual way because of its limited awareness and abilities, and which is a valley of tears as the Salve Regina so aptly puts it.

5. when a psychic reads a past life in someone it is only because the subject has a certain subconscious recall through the ZPF which is accessed by the psychic; any similarity or meaningfulness to the subject is only because he would tend to connect to those past lives which are meaningful to him but which he did not experience--the same is true under hypnosis; under hypnosis a person can artificially see a whole string of lives as inter-related and meaningful to him/her

6. wounds, birthmarks, and phobias or other feelings are only related to the subject because the past life, which wasn't experienced by him/her, is unconsciously recalled through mixed signals from the ZPF and causes these physical manifestations or feelings

7. nothing in reincarnationism makes sense and it is full of contradictions and also generates superstitions.

8. there is no satisfactory explanation of how it could be possible for a soul to incarnate and even if it were possible, which is doubtful, it would be interfering with the soul and life of that person

9. the purpose of metempsychosis, as it is sometimes called, is to improve oneself spiritually but this is contradicted by the fact that civilizations involved in the UFO phenomenon are demonic or at least unenlightened, and it seems that this is the norm for advanced civilizations; as well there has been little or no improvement in people in general and any improvements in society can be attributed to other causes, such as normal cultural evolution

10. people having organ transplants start having memories of the donour's life whom they did not know, knew nothing about, and never met, which is more evidence that a person can recall a past life that he did not experience (cell memory theory)

11. a woman on vacation in Mexico had a troubling dream about being killed and it was later learned that another woman, who she did not know and was unaware of, who had stayed in that very hotel room had been murdered and her body was found buried on the beach according to information from the dream (Dossiers Secrèts, Pierre Bellemare, Jacques Antoine, Marie-Thérèse Cuny, Edition 1, 1984, 1996), which is yet more evidence that someone can have memories of a past life that he or she didn't experience

12. in "Aaron's Crossing; an Inspiring True Ghost Story" by L.A. Dewey, the spirit relates that there is no reincarnation.

[Bill Ryan]

They're memories, not experiences.

I can remember clearly what I had for dinner last night. That was a memory of my experience. :)

If you're trying to tell me that I do not know what's real in my own experience, and that you somehow know better, you're being very arrogant indeed.

The most intellectually honest thing you can possibly say is that you haven't experienced those kinds of memories yourself. Many here would respect you for that.

[Flash]

Pilote tempete you definitely need to meet us in person nat-lee, i and mini flash, all the more if your health is fragile. We coul share our life/soul/many lifes experiences "de visu".
I was at a psychotherapist once and she did not believe that we had a soul, this was a belief of mine until i told her that hers was certainly a belief too since i met my soul at some point.

We thrive in helping and awakening and you are steps away
----------

Edit: experience has nothing to do with the intellect. The latter IS the false light, experience is your truth. Leave your books and readings and jump into the experience pool, much more worthwhile

[Finefeather]

They're memories, not experiences.


7. nothing in reincarnationism makes sense and it is full of contradictions and also generates superstitions.

The memories that you say are not experiences...where do you think they come from?
The very fact that there are memories can indicates that life must have existed before this current live, especially if you have not experienced the stuff you remember in this life.
Now if you are talking about the imaginative stories we hear from many about their past lives...I agree with you that most people's so called past life recall is pure illusion.
There are very few people who can correctly access their past lives and this is simply because they have the higher consciousness which enables them to do so...all the others are just guessing and hoping and believing the corner fortune teller.

The reason why 'nothing' makes sense to you in reincarnation is because you have not yet heard or understood the real facts behind it.
You have probably been listening to and read all the many works of fiction which are alive and well on the internet.
You cannot judge a situation with false information.

The other reason why reincarnation does not make sense to you could very well be because you are not willing to see it for what it is and how it fits into life and the evolution of consciousness.

Take care
Ray

[greybeard]

They're memories, not experiences.

I can remember clearly what I had for dinner last night. That was a memory of my experience. :)

If you're trying to tell me that I do not know what's real in my own experience, and that you somehow know better, you're being very arrogant indeed.

The most intellectually honest thing you can possibly say is that you haven't experienced those kinds of memories yourself. Many here would respect you for that.

Your doing better than me Bill--I cant remember what I had for supper.

I think the evidence for reincarnation is overwhelming.
Not everything can be proved in laboratories or with the intellect.
As you said thousand have testified to their experience and many uniform NDE accounts.
Adyashnti who previously did not believe in reincarnation, had to say that in the enlightened state all the past lives occurred as though happening at the same moment beyond time

Chris

[greybeard]

The Book Many Lives many Masters is a must for those seriously investigating to find if reincarnation is fact or fantasy.

Pasted from

http://hinduism.about.com/od/reincarnation/fr/weissbook.htm

He held steadfastly to conservatism in his profession, distrusting anything that could not be proved by traditional scientific method. But when he met his 27-year old patient, Catherine, in 1980, who came to his office seeking help for her anxiety, panic attacks, and phobias, he was taken aback at what unfolded in the therapy sessions that followed, which jolted him out of his conventional ways of thought and psychiatry. For the first time, he came face-to-face with the concept of reincarnation and the many tenets of Hinduism, which, as he says in the last chapter of the book, “I thought only Hindus… practiced.”

n a series of trance-like states, Catherine recalled “past life” memories that proved to be the causative factors of her recurring nightmares and anxiety attack symptoms. She remembers “living 86 times in physical state” in different places on this earth both as male and female. She recalled vividly the details of each birth – her name, her family, physical appearance, the landscape, and how she was killed by stabbing, by drowning, or illness. And in each lifetime she experiences myriad events “making progress… to fulfill all of the agreements and all of the Karmic (from Hindu concept of Karma) debts that are owed.”
Dr. Weiss’s skepticism was eroded, however, when she began to channel messages from “the space between lives”, messages from the many Masters (highly evolved souls not presently in body) that also contained remarkable revelations about his family and his dead son. Often he had heard his patients talk about near-death experiences when they float out of their mortal bodies guided towards a bright white light before reentering their discarded body once again.

But Catherine revealed much more. As she floats out of her body after each death, she says, “I am aware of a bright light. It’s wonderful; you get energy from this light.” Then, while waiting to be reborn in the in-between-lives state, she learns from the Masters great wisdom and becomes a conduit for transcendental knowledge.

[onawah]

I've never had any memories of past lives, but I am convinced that reincarnation is a reality because from childhood, I have met people who I know I have known before.
Particularly with members of my own particular soul group, there is often instant recognition, and it's often mutual.
I don't mean that we know who the other was in past lives, but that we know that we've known each other before.
When I learned that a very famous Indian psychic had done past life readings on my mentor, Dr. Christopher Hills, and another person in his circle of friends and associates, I was able to begin tracing back members of that soul group in past lives from books and photographs, similar to the process that David Wilcock has described.
A better question than "is reincarnation a reality?" might be: "what is the soul, and what is it that is immortal in us, what essence is there in each individual that could be transmigrating from lifetime to lifetime"?
I don't feel a need to give a name to it other than soul, though perhaps "individual essence" is more descriptive, but I can say with assuredness that I have been able to recognize that unique essence in some individuals, and it is as real as anything else in this reality, perhaps more so.

[Finefeather]

As she floats out of her body after each death,
Hi Chris
This suddenly took me back to my one previous life when I died on a sidewalk. I remember clearly as if it was yesterday how I floated out of my body.
The exciting thing about this one is that once when I went OB and went back in time I actually watched...like an onlooker...at the entire thing.
I could see myself lying on my side on the sidewalk with people around me and I could actually see and actually experienced the withdrawal from the body at the same time...and I knew I was actually going to 'die'.

[Pilote Tempête]

Greybeard,

Ur being abuse n twisting everything around. I'm not saying we don't have memories of experiences in our lives. I'm saying we don't have experiences of past lives.

[Pilote Tempête]

Finefeather,

Like I said, the memories come from the ZPF. And the reason it doesn't make sense to me is that it 's not real. I know all there is to know about it n I do understand the facts about it. I am not at all judging it on false info. It's you who is not willling to see it for what it is.

[greybeard]

Greybeard,

Ur being abuse n twisting everything around. I'm not saying we don't have memories of experiences in our lives. I'm saying we don't have experiences of past lives.

Respectfully I did not mention your name.
I have had on going discussion on this thread about the light experienced after death--hence the bold print on my post---also possible reasons for reincarnation.
So my post was not aimed at you though yes I copied what Bill had posted which had your post incorporated.
You will note the response mentioned Bill--so part of it was addressed to him.
So I am sorry if you think I was being abusive---such was not the case.

Best wishes
Chris

[Wind]

For example I have always known it to be true that I have a very deep connection with my mother. It is not just a parent & child relationship, I truly know that we have shared lives for eons and then some. She is one of my guardians. When you have that kind of a relationship with some of the people in your life, you know that there is more behind that than what what meets the eye. The intellect cannot understand this, but the heart can.

In fact the intellect thinks that it knows a lot, but in reality it knows very little or not much at all. When we reach deep inside, we will remember and find our true wisdom. It is immense, untouchable and eternal. People come and go, civilizations rise and fall, worlds form and dissolve, but it remains. Forever and ever.

[Milneman]

Amzer Zo,

The answer is simple, there's been no improvement because there is no reincarnation. And the NDE is an hallucination. This does not mean there is no after-life--there is, but it's physical but in another frequency, n that's why ghosts can be seen n heard n spirits can be seen n heard by mediums.

Well, then, the many dozens of detailed lifetimes I've recalled and processed (and the many hundreds of thousands recalled by others, also) -- must all be a delusion! :)

That is logically possible.

[Milneman]

They're memories, not experiences.

There is more evidence against reincarnation than for it. The following is a summary of the evidence against it.

1. the "inter-life" period is never remembered other than under hypnosis where it can easily be due to artificial generation since the person in these sessions believes in reincarnation to begin with

2. the "inter-life" period is identical to the NDE except for the reincarnation component (most NDExperiencers deny reincarnation so if the NDE consists of a real experience it contradicts reincarnation and if it is false than so is reincarnation because of the striking similarity to the "interlife" period or at least makes it very suspect

3. the ZPF (zero-point field) is the explanation for the illusion of reincarnation as it is the Akashic Record of the esoteric and so contains all the memories and in an altered state such as hypnosis, dreams, and early childhood (where the brain is only beginning to develop) actual past lives can be remembered and are remembered by people as if they were their own; the explanation that all past life memories are acquired through other means is weak as in most cases the person had no knowledge of that past person and the idea that they only or mostly remember famous people is a complete myth as such cases are rare.

4. many in the spiritualist movement, particularly the British or Anglo-American brand, of the 18 and early 1900s, and still some today, rejected reincarnation; it makes much more sense that souls would evolve in the afterlife, as some spiritualism held, than in this life which affords little, if any, opportunity for learning and growth in any spiritual way because of its limited awareness and abilities, and which is a valley of tears as the Salve Regina so aptly puts it.

5. when a psychic reads a past life in someone it is only because the subject has a certain subconscious recall through the ZPF which is accessed by the psychic; any similarity or meaningfulness to the subject is only because he would tend to connect to those past lives which are meaningful to him but which he did not experience--the same is true under hypnosis; under hypnosis a person can artificially see a whole string of lives as inter-related and meaningful to him/her

6. wounds, birthmarks, and phobias or other feelings are only related to the subject because the past life, which wasn't experienced by him/her, is unconsciously recalled through mixed signals from the ZPF and causes these physical manifestations or feelings

7. nothing in reincarnationism makes sense and it is full of contradictions and also generates superstitions.

8. there is no satisfactory explanation of how it could be possible for a soul to incarnate and even if it were possible, which is doubtful, it would be interfering with the soul and life of that person

9. the purpose of metempsychosis, as it is sometimes called, is to improve oneself spiritually but this is contradicted by the fact that civilizations involved in the UFO phenomenon are demonic or at least unenlightened, and it seems that this is the norm for advanced civilizations; as well there has been little or no improvement in people in general and any improvements in society can be attributed to other causes, such as normal cultural evolution

10. people having organ transplants start having memories of the donour's life whom they did not know, knew nothing about, and never met, which is more evidence that a person can recall a past life that he did not experience (cell memory theory)

11. a woman on vacation in Mexico had a troubling dream about being killed and it was later learned that another woman, who she did not know and was unaware of, who had stayed in that very hotel room had been murdered and her body was found buried on the beach according to information from the dream (Dossiers Secrèts, Pierre Bellemare, Jacques Antoine, Marie-Thérèse Cuny, Edition 1, 1984, 1996), which is yet more evidence that someone can have memories of a past life that he or she didn't experience

12. in "Aaron's Crossing; an Inspiring True Ghost Story" by L.A. Dewey, the spirit relates that there is no reincarnation.

You know what I find really depressing about this? When I started reading your post, I was actually excited that I might get to read something that had some serious substance to it. I was wrong.

I have this strange push to write more in this thread, but I wanted to say (before I head out the door) that the reality is this: the proof both sides are looking for here is rational, not empirical. When empirical proof shows up, stop the presses and get the bubbly out! There is however philosophical proofs for an after life, and if that proof can extend to reincarnation, there might be some hope. However, as it stands, I'm disappointed with both sides so far, and am inclined to relax into my belief that it's actually more important to focus on the life we are currently perceiving as happening than any of them that might happen, or will happen.

As the old twelve step saw says, "If you stand with one foot in yesterday, and one foot in tomorrow, you'll end up pissing all over today."

More later. ;)

[Agape]

The easiest way to understand about 'past lives' is really not through 'memory of past' but through presence ,
logically .. all you can experience at any given moment is your 'presence' ( though soon a past too ). Past-presence-future is relative to the 3D experiencers point of view , beyond the 3D attached 'little mind' your existence is timeless .

If you miss the experience of yourself - your existence - as timeless being - I think that understanding that there are any past lives is experientially weird and nearly impossibly . True, they could be illusions, imaginations , or someones else's memories - and in many cases they truly are .

On the other hand .. inquisitive seeker starts asking themselves at some point inevitably - ''where did I come from'' . Where did I exist .. before my current awareness , this particular body-conscious complex , this life .

When did you really come to being ?

At the time of birth ? The moment of conception ? Where have you been before then ? Did your consciousness co-emerge from your fathers and mothers 'genes' ?

If so , it still implies you were there , consciousness , aware or unaware ..

If you will try to track the beginning of your existence .. you will find none . But you may find the dimension of you where many memories and experiences exist,
half asleep , waiting to be awakened .

They're there .. in your genes . And no , they're hardly your mothers memories .. she has just carried them forwards , quite like you carry thousands and millions of such hidden memories of your ancestors .. that will be born in your grand-grand-children , without your knowledge .

I think there's a reason why consciousness is so poorly understood .. and why memories aren't naturally all awake . It could disturb . It could take you on whole new level of human experience , one of a sage .

;)

[Sidney]

Another reason for lack of memory of past lives could be that this is indeed a persons first trip here. Also some peoples brains are more efficient than others. We aren't suppose to remember because we were set up for failure to do so, having been wiped of memories between lives.

I also think it may be possible that not everyone is reincarnated, that at death, it is indeed the end. I don't really go along with that theory but in truth the possibilities are endless. I personally think reincarnation is really the only thing that makes sense.

[ThePythonicCow]

Greybeard,

Ur being abuse n twisting everything around. I'm not saying we don't have memories of experiences in our lives. I'm saying we don't have experiences of past lives.

Pilote Tempête, I do not think greybeard was being abusive.

Like you, Pilote Tempête, my dominant strength is in my "3D" rational mind. I have no awareness of any past lives or out of body experiences or spiritual being substantially distinct from my physical and rational beings. Perhaps you are similar to me in this regard.

But an essential strength of this forum is the variety of strengths and awarenesses of its members. If you reject the good posts of others, even to the point of finding them to be abusive, then I predict that you will find your stay here tempestuous.

[onawah]

I watched a movie streaming on Netflix last night that I thought was amazingly good, called Crazy Wisdom, The Life and Times of Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche,
a documentary about Pema Chodren's (among many others') controversial teacher, who started the Naropa Institute in Boulder Colorado.

80jGSadccmY

He was a high lama who escaped from Tibet and went to Oxford University, then left the traditional path and created his own style of teaching mindfulness to Westerners.
I saw him speak to a small group in California once.
When they called him the "bad boy" of Buddhism, they weren't kidding...nonetheless, he was very wise, and I think he not only understood how not to be "food", and how to see through the false light, but knew how to teach that to others by his example.
http://www.netflix.com/WiMovie/70247854?strkid=269922014_0_0&trkid=222336&movieid=70247854
http://www.crazywisdomthemovie.com/

[Finefeather]

We aren't suppose to remember because we were set up for failure to do so, having been wiped of memories between lives.
I wonder who is it that you think might set us up for failure?

Nothing is forgotten and all we know resides in our subconscious causal state waiting for some trigger to bring back some memory.

The reason why we do not generally remember initially is because we start at birth with a new physical, emotional a mental envelope...a clear slate...this is not a setup for failure but a new life with new things to work on.

Some of us remember quite quickly after birth because we bring with us some remembrances which may be required for our new life to take some path.

Other past memories can appear quite suddenly as a result of some trigger in life which can take the form of a deja vu...we can also find this when reading some truths, or some subject, and deep inside we just know it is true, and we can easily grasp the subject as if we had studied it before...this is known as remembrance anew.

With love
Ray

[greybeard]

We aren't suppose to remember because we were set up for failure to do so, having been wiped of memories between lives.
I wonder who is it that you think might set us up for failure?

Nothing is forgotten and all we know resides in our subconscious causal state waiting for some trigger to bring back some memory.

The reason why we do not generally remember initially is because we start at birth with a new physical, emotional a mental envelope...a clear slate...this is not a setup for failure but a new life with new things to work on.

Some of us remember quite quickly after birth because we bring with us some remembrances which may be required for our new life to take some path.

Other past memories can appear quite suddenly as a result of some trigger in life which can take the form of a deja vu...we can also find this when reading some truths, or some subject, and deep inside we just know it is true, and we can easily grasp the subject as if we had studied it before...this is known as remembrance anew.

With love
Ray

Yes Ray
Bill stated post 393 that he remembered and processed past live as had thousands of others.
So it seems that recall is possible and memories in these cases certainly have not been erased- wiped.

Chris

[Bill Ryan]

The reason why we do not generally remember initially is because we start at birth with a new physical, emotional a mental envelope...a clear slate...this is not a setup for failure but a new life with new things to work on.



We certainly don't start a new lifetime with 'a clean slate'... if I understand you correctly.

We bring our unfinished business with us, just as our unfinished business from yesterday is still with us today when we woke up this morning.

I'd suggest that the metaphor of starting a new day, but with whatever happened yesterday being still all too real, applies fairly accurately.

[Milneman]

The easiest way to understand about 'past lives' is really not through 'memory of past' but through presence ,
logically .. all you can experience at any given moment is your 'presence' ( though soon a past too ). Past-presence-future is relative to the 3D experiencers point of view , beyond the 3D attached 'little mind' your existence is timeless .

If you miss the experience of yourself - your existence - as timeless being - I think that understanding that there are any past lives is experientially weird and nearly impossibly . True, they could be illusions, imaginations , or someones else's memories - and in many cases they truly are .

On the other hand .. inquisitive seeker starts asking themselves at some point inevitably - ''where did I come from'' . Where did I exist .. before my current awareness , this particular body-conscious complex , this life .

When did you really come to being ?

At the time of birth ? The moment of conception ? Where have you been before then ? Did your consciousness co-emerge from your fathers and mothers 'genes' ?

If so , it still implies you were there , consciousness , aware or unaware ..

If you will try to track the beginning of your existence .. you will find none . But you may find the dimension of you where many memories and experiences exist,
half asleep , waiting to be awakened .

They're there .. in your genes . And no , they're hardly your mothers memories .. she has just carried them forwards , quite like you carry thousands and millions of such hidden memories of your ancestors .. that will be born in your grand-grand-children , without your knowledge .

I think there's a reason why consciousness is so poorly understood .. and why memories aren't naturally all awake . It could disturb . It could take you on whole new level of human experience , one of a sage .

;)

Or, to put it in the words of the late Dr. Ronald Nash, "To be is to be conceived."

[Milneman]

Another reason for lack of memory of past lives could be that this is indeed a persons first trip here. Also some peoples brains are more efficient than others. We aren't suppose to remember because we were set up for failure to do so, having been wiped of memories between lives.

I also think it may be possible that not everyone is reincarnated, that at death, it is indeed the end. I don't really go along with that theory but in truth the possibilities are endless. I personally think reincarnation is really the only thing that makes sense.

Really?

Let me float something over and see what you think.

Consider the possibility that the universe has an infinitely powerful being operating it. Thought experiment, so go with me for a moment. Consider that being "thinks" every sentient being into existence, and that being that is thought into existence will continue to exist as a thought in that infinitely powerful being. So when you die, your physical body dies but the essence of what you are (soul) continues to exist on and on.

The major argument against this possibility that I hear usually comes in the form of "Wouldn't you get bored living in eternity, doing the same things over and over and over?" And my reply to that is this: suppose that infinitely powerful being operates the universe, exists outside of the universe, and outside of time. Suppose that as you exit this universe, you exit the confines of what time is. How, then do you determine when you get bored of doing something if there is no time to do it in?

Thinking this way, let's put another layer into the experiment. Suppose that infinitely powerful being notices that certain energies have qualities that help the system, or are used by the being as a means of regulating the system somehow. Constants, let's call them. Suppose that some energies (let's call them souls) do in fact manifest differently than others for this exact reason. Again, this is a thought experiment and not meant to promote a certain dogma, but what if the idea of angelic beings actually gets a twist from this notion?

So now we have a simple system on the scale of the entire universe, controlled by an infinitely powerful being, using certain elements to re-condition the system because they have a greater potential.

Suppose there's a system in place in the universe to allow for the development of the life which inhabits the universe to grow, develop, and mature within the system? Let's call it natural selection and modern evolutionary theory. Suppose the next stage in human evolution, in this thought experiment, is recognizing the choice to evolve to the next point. Suppose that's the point of it all.

Doesn't that make as much sense as a system that continually recycles itself? You also have the problem of explaining how a system like reincarnation begins. If we've always existed, always will exist, and always will continue to exist, when were we created? How were we created?

Going with my own thought experiment, which in part is belief for me, I end up at the exact same questions someone who believes in reincarnation does. And that's interesting, don't you think? It means, somewhere along the line, aspects of what we both believe are true...or we are both equally deceived!

Sidney, I'm not suggesting you're wrong in what you believe. I think for whatever reason you're justified in your beliefs, and that's cool! You have a right to be, just as much as I have a right to be. The problem for me begins when another belief system, with equal value, can somehow be dismissed slight of hand without substantial proofs.

Anyway, happy Friday. :)

[Milneman]

The reason why we do not generally remember initially is because we start at birth with a new physical, emotional a mental envelope...a clear slate...this is not a setup for failure but a new life with new things to work on.



We certainly don't start a new lifetime with 'a clean slate'... if I understand you correctly.

We bring our unfinished business with us, just as our unfinished business from yesterday is still with us today when we woke up this morning.

I'd suggest that the metaphor of starting a new day, but with whatever happened yesterday being still all too real, applies fairly accurately.

Bill,

I wanted to try and find a way to pry into this to either justify or deny it. Instead of coming up against the wall of my own dogma, I got a voice which said, very clearly, this:

An being of infinite love, God, is going to give every creature it loves, namely us, as many chances as it takes to get it right....why? Because that's what love is.

I don't know what to believe. I've seen my ancestors...3D...realtime. I've seen them clearer than any extra terrestrial. I've seen spirits in sweat lodges and on fasts. I know when I'm being talked to, I know when I'm being touched. Maybe that's the point.

We just keep getting chances until we get it right. By our natures, it makes sense that it would take thousands of times. That same voice keeps saying to me now: this is your best chance, so do it now!

And I get the punch to the gut when I remember the greatest commandment of my own faith. Love each other as I have loved you.

W-o-w

Cheers

[Sidney]

Another reason for lack of memory of past lives could be that this is indeed a persons first trip here. Also some peoples brains are more efficient than others. We aren't suppose to remember because we were set up for failure to do so, having been wiped of memories between lives.

I also think it may be possible that not everyone is reincarnated, that at death, it is indeed the end. I don't really go along with that theory but in truth the possibilities are endless. I personally think reincarnation is really the only thing that makes sense.

Really?

Let me float something over and see what you think.

Consider the possibility that the universe has an infinitely powerful being operating it. Thought experiment, so go with me for a moment. Consider that being "thinks" every sentient being into existence, and that being that is thought into existence will continue to exist as a thought in that infinitely powerful being. So when you die, your physical body dies but the essence of what you are (soul) continues to exist on and on.

The major argument against this possibility that I hear usually comes in the form of "Wouldn't you get bored living in eternity, doing the same things over and over and over?" And my reply to that is this: suppose that infinitely powerful being operates the universe, exists outside of the universe, and outside of time. Suppose that as you exit this universe, you exit the confines of what time is. How, then do you determine when you get bored of doing something if there is no time to do it in?

Thinking this way, let's put another layer into the experiment. Suppose that infinitely powerful being notices that certain energies have qualities that help the system, or are used by the being as a means of regulating the system somehow. Constants, let's call them. Suppose that some energies (let's call them souls) do in fact manifest differently than others for this exact reason. Again, this is a thought experiment and not meant to promote a certain dogma, but what if the idea of angelic beings actually gets a twist from this notion?

So now we have a simple system on the scale of the entire universe, controlled by an infinitely powerful being, using certain elements to re-condition the system because they have a greater potential.

Suppose there's a system in place in the universe to allow for the development of the life which inhabits the universe to grow, develop, and mature within the system? Let's call it natural selection and modern evolutionary theory. Suppose the next stage in human evolution, in this thought experiment, is recognizing the choice to evolve to the next point. Suppose that's the point of it all.

Doesn't that make as much sense as a system that continually recycles itself? You also have the problem of explaining how a system like reincarnation begins. If we've always existed, always will exist, and always will continue to exist, when were we created? How were we created?

Going with my own thought experiment, which in part is belief for me, I end up at the exact same questions someone who believes in reincarnation does. And that's interesting, don't you think? It means, somewhere along the line, aspects of what we both believe are true...or we are both equally deceived!

Sidney, I'm not suggesting you're wrong in what you believe. I think for whatever reason you're justified in your beliefs, and that's cool! You have a right to be, just as much as I have a right to be. The problem for me begins when another belief system, with equal value, can somehow be dismissed slight of hand without substantial proofs.

Anyway, happy Friday. :)

Yep, That is why I say the possibilities are endless. Nobody really knows for sure. I think, regardless of what really occurs, it needs to remain important that each individual, accept their own belief system, and be ok with it. The last thing we need when we are on our way out, is fear. We will all either die, (the end), or exit these bodies (a different end), and continue our journey.
My belief about what happens when I die, changes on a regular basis, because I am constantly introduced to ideas that I had not thought of before. Nothing is written in stone here.

When were we created? a long time ago. LOL
How were we created? apparently with a great sense of humor :)

How can we possibly store so many memories in one brain? Think of it this way. Look how much data can be stored on a micro chip. And then think of the human brain. My opinion is, the memory bank is far more complex than what mainstream science is telling us.
2587825879

[Milneman]

Sid,

ditto marks, with only one sticky. It is logically possible to hold a belief system that is incorrect, and to be ignorant of that fact.

That's where it gets phun. ;)

[Sidney]

Sid,

ditto marks, with only one sticky. It is logically possible to hold a belief system that is incorrect, and to be ignorant of that fact.

That's where it gets phun. ;)

My ultimate point is to not have fear. Its ok to say, hey I might be wrong, I might indeed be going to hell (proverbial) when I leave here. But we gain absolutely nothing by living with the fear of this. That is why we are picking apart the dos and don'ts of "the light". It seems like the ol' damned if we do and damned if we don't scenario. If we go to the light its a trap. If we don't go to the light we might get lost.
See?
Either way, we won't know until we get there. A near death experience is not death. It is something different. They came back, therefore they are not dead. So dead may be something entirely different than a near death. We may get glimpses of whats on the other side through the NDE, but we do not know for sure what death consists of for sure.

But I absolutely believe there is something somewhere for some people. Not all those mediums can be wrong.

I also think when the moment comes, I will choose what I am suppose to.

[Milneman]

Unless you have a reason to be afraid.
Which brings to mind the question, if we have a reason to be afraid, we must have knowledge about why....

[Freed Fox]

Right; we'll all find out for ourselves, but not before the time has come.

"All goes onward and outward, nothing collapses,
And to die is different from what any one supposed, and luckier."
~Walt Whitman

[Sidney]

Unless you have a reason to be afraid.
Which brings to mind the question, if we have a reason to be afraid, we must have knowledge about why....

Because bad **** happens to good people. And vice versa.

[Milneman]

Unless you have a reason to be afraid.
Which brings to mind the question, if we have a reason to be afraid, we must have knowledge about why....

Because bad **** happens to good people. And vice versa.

And more importantly, people do bad **** to each other.

Ergo, we know the difference between what is right, to begin with, and what is wrong, to begin with, and act on each accordingly to our need.

So there's fear (oh no, a tiger, it's going to eat me!) and there's fear (oh ****, I'm going to get caught in the act).

I don't think you're lumping all evil together. At least I hope not.

What I'm talking about here is the idea of personal responsibility in the light of an innate knowledge of what is good and what is evil. If you accept that premise (I'm not sure what else one could believe with any validity in the light of this discussion) then you have to at least consider the idea that there is, in fact, a universal idea of wrong action for personal gain that is universal to every belief system; in fact I'd go as far to say that this is the universal belief system everyone is looking for.

Do unto others as long as you don't get caught. And it's ok. We get another life to try and make it right.

Or keep living by the same defective code while other more reasoned human beings choose to evolve.

We're not afraid because bad things happen naturally alone. Bad things happen because we do bad things against our own innate nature.

That's what "sin" is.

Or, if you'd rather, what "karma" is supposed to meter out.

I'm watching my father die in fear, as he's lived most of his life. Why would his death be any different? What's going to happen to him after he dies? Life, for me, will go on. As it will for everyone else. The answer for him is between him and his maker. Which, I think, is my point. This is a personal experience that no human being, fallible as that human being is, can make any judgment about with any certainty, and any person who takes the notion of this experience as being true, or that experience being true, with no grounding in any philosophical, metaphysical, rational, or empirical reasoning is someone I'd gladly sell a bridge to.

And I'll gladly stand by that until someone can prove me otherwise.

[Hervé]

Why the hell is there a flying scarab that keeps knocking itself out against my window?

... must mean something... let's see... it's night out there and I have a halogene lamp burning calories... no, may be it's joules... whatever, it's artificial light, you know, the kind deers and road crossing dudes keep getting caught in... at night...

... hhmmm... why is that?

[Finefeather]

The reason why we do not generally remember initially is because we start at birth with a new physical, emotional a mental envelope...a clear slate...this is not a setup for failure but a new life with new things to work on.



We certainly don't start a new lifetime with 'a clean slate'... if I understand you correctly.

We bring our unfinished business with us, just as our unfinished business from yesterday is still with us today when we woke up this morning.

I'd suggest that the metaphor of starting a new day, but with whatever happened yesterday being still all too real, applies fairly accurately.
I do apologize if I have not made myself clear and caused confusion...I used the term generally when I should have been more specific I quess :)

Bill, actually we do start with a clean slate as far as the Physical, emotional and mental envelopes are concerned...you may not be familiar with this term...we use the term bodies more often...they are states of molecular matter...our auras can be seen and prove their existence.

I would however agree with you up to a point only...because you are generalizing...as I did...and trying to sum up a most complicated process with a simple statement which is far from accurate...because, just for starters, reincarnation is certainly not a case of starting a new day with yesterdays memories because reincarnation is not necessarily a linear process as you seem to be suggesting...although this may certainly be true in some cases.

The clear slate memory I am referring to...and which I mentioned are the physical consciousness/memory, the emotional consciousness/memory, and the mental consciousness/memory. These memories form our conscious and subconscious memory during a life...some we remember, some we forget until we are reminded somehow...There is a still larger or higher repository for our memories which is the Causal Memory.

All of these memories/consciousnesses, from these 3 bodies/envelopes, from a life are dissolved after the life and are assimilated into the causal memory of the Being...along with any talents, habits, tendencies, traumas etc.

The unfinished business you speak of depends largely on the 'level' of the 'business' which was going on before the life ended. By this I mean that...for example...if you were busy with some mundane thing which was largely driven by ego, it is unlikely that you would continue with this in the next life...but if you were formulating some idea which would be profoundly useful to humanity, you might very well want to complete this. In this case it would manifest as a desire and not a memory to start of with and this would most probably lead to a sudden remembrance anew which would cause the continuation of the idea you formulated in the previous life.

The other thing to remember is that our choice of life is not entirely our own doing when speaking or thinking from our current life consciousness...we are not able to see the whole picture in the human mind state and should not believe that what we think is going to be is in fact going to be without having the larger picture in sight. There are far greater minds than we at this time who assist us during the process of rebirth.

The other significant thing which can comes from previous lives...even many lives ago is what is known as skandhas. These are constant vibrations like habits, tendencies, traumas etc...and are often what Scientology claims to deal with in it's efforts to clear a person of these permanent until dealt with 'pockets' of negative consciousness. Of course you also get the opposite positive side which are the talents and predispositions of the person.

In each case these skandhas are not part of the new clean slate physical, emotional and mental envelopes of the Being incarnating...but they are a part of the Causal Being, which is the thing which incarnates, the real Self...the part of us we so frantically think is far away when it is part of us all the time. This real Self has a quality of it's own based on it's own individual 'personality' and this, together with all it's 'good' and 'bad' come out in our life and we hardly give it a thought...because we are far from perfect yet.


Each envelope of the individual has its consciousness, its memory: the subconscious collective consciousness of its different molecules. These memories dissolve with the envelopes. The permanent envelope in the human kingdom, the causal, retains the memory of everything it has experienced since its formation.

Remembrance anew is the ability to resuscitate the vibrations received or emitted by the envelopes.

Expressions of consciousness activate the matter of the envelopes. Constant vibrations (habits, tendencies, etc.) retain “permanent atoms” (Sanskrit: skandhas). On the dissolution of the envelopes they enter into the causal envelope and accompany it at reincarnation, constituting the latent fund of experiences (predispositions, talents, etc.).

Take care
Ray

[greybeard]

The enlightened say.
Let go of all belief systems
Die before you die (death of ego --personal self)
There is only one consciousness---only one soul and you are that.
That is their direct knowledge--the state in which "That" is.

Assuming this is so---the whole purpose of this duality state is to experience and find the answer to the question "Who am I?"
Having found the answer there is no reincarnation --this world this experience has served it purpose.

Going or not going into the light is not relevant as you know your are Source.
The unborn the Ultimate.

One member for sure exists in that state called enlightenment and has fully pointed to it and answered questions, I refer to Tim.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43027-Enlightenment-A-direct-succinct-account-of-what-occurs...
Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

This is an account of the direct experience of awakening.

What can be said, or written, of itself cannot reveal the truth.

Words and language are themselves an illusory tool, an aspect of the relative dream, and can only indicate or hint towards the totality, or reality, or that which is.

Upon the moment of awakening not only does the illusion of the relative self or ego vanish like a shadow exposed to light, but all “other” egos, or relative selves, disappear. All separation disappears, and the absolute Self is realized. All is then enlightened and whole, for there never really were separate entities that could become individually enlightened. There then is no relative doer, nor even an absolute doer, for all doing implies separation. Or something to do, or somewhere to go. And not just other humans, but the entire creation is enlightened and whole.

[Hervé]

[...]

I'd suggest that the metaphor of starting a new day, but with whatever happened yesterday being still all too real, applies fairly accurately.

Yep, definitely most applicable metaphor:


3-Year-Old Remembers Past Life, Identifies Murderer and Location of Body (http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/681034-3-year-old-remembers-past-life-identifies-murderer-and-location-of-body/)

By Tara MacIsaac (http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/author/tara-macisaac/), Epoch Times (http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/about-us.html/) | May 17, 2014Last Updated: May 20, 2014 10:15 am

http://s2.djyimg.com/n3/eet-content/uploads/2014/05/126498194-676x450.jpg (http://s2.djyimg.com/n3/eet-content/uploads/2014/05/126498194.jpg)
A file photo of a child pointing. (Thinkstock)

The universe is full of mysteries that challenge our current knowledge.
In “Beyond Science” Epoch Times collects stories about these strange phenomena to stimulate the imagination and open up previously undreamed of possibilities. Are they true? You decide.

A 3-year-old boy in the Golan Heights region near the border of Syria and Israel said he was murdered with an axe in his previous life. He showed village elders where the murderer buried his body, and sure enough they found a man’s skeleton there. He also showed the elders where the murder weapon was found, and upon digging, they did indeed found an axe there.

In his book, “Children Who Have Lived Before: Reincarnation Today,” German therapist Trutz Hardo tells (http://www.esolibris.com/articles/reincarnation/three_year_old.php) this boy’s story, along with other stories of children who seem to remember their past lives with verified accuracy. The boy’s story was witnessed by Dr. Eli Lasch, who is best known for developing the medical system in Gaza as part of an Israeli government operation in the 1960s. Dr. Lasch, who died in 2009, had recounted these astounding events to Hardo.

The boy was of the Druze ethnic group, and in his culture the existence of reincarnation is accepted as fact. His story nonetheless had the power to surprise his community.

He was born with a long, red birthmark on his head. The Druse believe, as some other cultures do, that birthmarks are related to past-life deaths. When the boy was old enough to talk, he told his family he had been killed by a blow to the head with an axe.

It is customary for elders to take a child at the age of 3 to the home of his previous life if he remembers it. The boy knew the village he was from, so they went there. When they arrived in the village, the boy remembered the name he had in his past life.

A village local said the man the boy claimed to be the reincarnation of had gone missing four years earlier. His friends and family thought he may have strayed into hostile territory nearby as sometimes happens.

The boy also remembered the full name of his killer. When he confronted this man, the alleged killer’s face turned white, Lasch told Hardo, but he did not admit to murder. The boy then said he could take the elders to where the body was buried. In that very spot, they found a man’s skeleton with a wound to the head that corresponded to the boy’s birthmark. They also found the axe, the murder weapon.

Faced with this evidence, the murderer admitted to the crime. Dr. Lasch, the only non-Druze, was present through this whole process.

To read more of Hardo’s stories, read his book, “Children Who Have Lived Before.” (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0852073526/esolibris-20)


You may also like


10 Amazing Things Kids Have Said About Past Lives (http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/337315-10-things-kids-have-said-about-past-lives/?sidebar=related-below)
Is Boy His Own Grandfather? (+Video) (http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/347716-boy-is-his-own-grandfather/?sidebar=related-below)
Are Birthmarks Connected to Violent Death in Past Life? (http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/347860-are-birthmarks-connected-to-violent-death-in-past-life/?sidebar=related-below)
Boy Remembers Wife and Killer of Past Life, Finds Them Again (http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/682547-boy-remembers-wife-and-killer-of-past-life-finds-them-again/?sidebar=related-below)


****************************************************************



With that account, one may be able to understand why there are some vested interests determined to deny anything having to do with past lives and working hard at the eradication of any memories stemming from such... particularly organized psychopaths from this and other densities/dimensions...

... their "secrets" would be blown out into scrutinizing lights!

[Shezbeth]

Such stories are quite impressive, and effective at illustrating that the concept of past lives is not in any way resolved or of a fixed determination.

Speaking of resolved, I wonder how many children experience such vivid past life recollections (they're usually not readily broadcast ^_~) and of those, how many have unfinished 'business' so to speak. In every case, there seems to be a premature death or the perception of having more to do in the deceased prior to the experience as a child.

In a sense, this begs the question; Is it that everyone reincarnates but not everyone recalls their past life or are there percentages who do reincarnate along side percentages who don't?

[Finefeather]

[...]

I'd suggest that the metaphor of starting a new day, but with whatever happened yesterday being still all too real, applies fairly accurately.

Yep, definitely most applicable metaphor:

Amzer
Nice post and story...thanks.

These type of occurrences are really great to read about and bring up when we are attempting to 'prove' reincarnation...however...even if true they are never the less quite rare, and it would be incorrect to use a rarity as a metaphor in a general way to explain what occurs in the majority of people.

These occurrences are certainly not the norm and we don't see this in most people we meet up with or in and around our block.

These are however still proof of the traumas which can manifest in the form of memories of past life...and they come from the Causal memory repository of the being and not from the normal physical, emotional or mental memories which begin to accumulate only from birth. Such memories also rarely determine the course of the persons new life, unless they are of such a profoundly traumatic or enlightening nature that the entire life is consumed and controlled by them.

I would be willing to venture to say that most of these types of memory recalls are almost in the background of the persons physical memory by the time they are around 21 or so...this is so because the memories of the new life becomes the guiding, determining and influencing factors.

I know many people who have had memories of past lives at different stages in their lives and it was most interesting to see the change that occurred in some of their lives as a result of the sudden memory recall.

So not everyone remembers past lives at birth...some take longer...some never...so it cannot or should not be used as a normal general statement...and even these kinds of stories will not necessarily satisfy a sceptical mind...they need their own experience of the memory.

Take care and thanks for the interesting links.
Ray

[Hervé]

[...]

Yep, definitely most applicable metaphor:

Amzer
Nice post and story...thanks.

[...]

Thanks, but it's not a story... it's a duly recorded account :)


These type of occurrences are really great to read about and bring up when we are attempting to 'prove' reincarnation...however...even if true they are never the less quite rare...

[...]First, my post didn't have anything to do with what you read into it but with "unfinished business."

Now, for the sake of "correctness," this account comes from a member of a community which doesn't ridicule kids for remembering who they were before their last death. There are very few such communities (e.g. Tibetan lamas on the look out for their Lamas coming back in a new body and especially their Dalai one).

Most other communities and cultures get kids to shut up pretty fast with floods of ridicule and kids learn to shove those recollections under the carpet real quick. So, absence of evidence is far from evidence of absence.

Hence "rarity of occurrence" is more the result of those "vested interests" working hard at suppressing and invalidating such occurrences.

However, if you take the time to peruse this forum, you'll find more and more accounts of members' own kids recounting pretty off the wall stuff. Why? They are not ridiculed, invalidated or suppressed.

Therefore, the argument that:
... it would be incorrect to use a rarity as a metaphor in a general way to explain what occurs in the majority of people.

These occurrences are certainly not the norm and we don't see this in most people we meet up with or in and around our block. is far from valid since it's only an apparent "rarity."

[Finefeather]

Thanks, but it's not a story... it's a duly recorded account :)


These type of occurrences are really great to read about and bring up when we are attempting to 'prove' reincarnation...however...even if true they are never the less quite rare...

[...]First, my post didn't have anything to do with what you read into it but with "unfinished business."

Now, for the sake of "correctness," this account comes from a member of a community which doesn't ridicule kids for remembering who they were before their last death. There are very few such communities (e.g. Tibetan lamas on the look out for their Lamas coming back in a new body and especially their Dalai one).

Most other communities and cultures get kids to shut up pretty fast with floods of ridicule and kids learn to shove those recollections under the carpet real quick. So, absence of evidence is far from evidence of absence.

Hence "rarity of occurrence" is more the result of those "vested interests" working hard at suppressing and invalidating such occurrences.

However, if you take the time to peruse this forum, you'll find more and more accounts of members' own kids recounting pretty off the wall stuff. Why? They are not ridiculed, invalidated or suppressed.

Therefore, the argument that:
... it would be incorrect to use a rarity as a metaphor in a general way to explain what occurs in the majority of people.

These occurrences are certainly not the norm and we don't see this in most people we meet up with or in and around our block. is far from valid since it's only an apparent "rarity."
Actually I understood your post quite well thanks...just because I have 68 as my age does not mean my powers of comprehension have faded :)

Story...noun...a narrative, either true or fictitious, in prose or verse, designed to interest, amuse, or instruct the hearer or reader; tale.

Where I come from a story is a story...it does not necessarily indicate false or incorrect information...it probably only affected you because you thought I was being derogatory...which was certainly not the case...I was actually thanking you for the information which 'proves' reincarnation.

I am quite aware of theTibetan lama tradition, I read that 50 years ago...I am also quite aware of the moral, family, traditional, religious and 'other' parts played in the upbringing and awareness of children.

I think your idea that 'vested interest' prevents children from recalling past lives is not true...The ability to recall past lives has many isolated reasons...but the main reason most cannot recall these memories is because their consciousness is not yet evolved enough to be active during the new life. Those who have achieved the ability to access Causal consciousness will remember their entire life history since they were created...billions of years...not that these recollections would be of any significance though for the new life.

The gist of my post was to indicate rarity and not the norm. Even if you took 2 million out of the current world population they would still only represent about 0.0003 of the world who have these experiences...a far cry from normal or general. To use the forum members as an indication of 'off the wall stuff' says but little...every parent wants to think their child is more gifted than the norm...I am not saying that there are not genuine cases.

We, as the current majority wave of humans, have 1000s of years ahead of us before we achieve a collective majority consciousness in higher states...trying to be clever and arrogant about our state of true knowledge just indicated the ignorance in us.

Blaming others for our own ignorance is a 'cop out'...there is nothing on this planet preventing consciousness growth.

Should that not be all the more reason why we should stop wasting our time and actually do something about our own consciousness growth. Reading stories and watching videos all day is not going to prove anything to us...just change our beliefs when something new pops up.

Take care
Ray

[ulli]

Thanks, but it's not a story... it's a duly recorded account :)


These type of occurrences are really great to read about and bring up when we are attempting to 'prove' reincarnation...however...even if true they are never the less quite rare...

[...]First, my post didn't have anything to do with what you read into it but with "unfinished business."

Now, for the sake of "correctness," this account comes from a member of a community which doesn't ridicule kids for remembering who they were before their last death. There are very few such communities (e.g. Tibetan lamas on the look out for their Lamas coming back in a new body and especially their Dalai one).

Most other communities and cultures get kids to shut up pretty fast with floods of ridicule and kids learn to shove those recollections under the carpet real quick. So, absence of evidence is far from evidence of absence.

Hence "rarity of occurrence" is more the result of those "vested interests" working hard at suppressing and invalidating such occurrences.

However, if you take the time to peruse this forum, you'll find more and more accounts of members' own kids recounting pretty off the wall stuff. Why? They are not ridiculed, invalidated or suppressed.

Therefore, the argument that:
... it would be incorrect to use a rarity as a metaphor in a general way to explain what occurs in the majority of people.

These occurrences are certainly not the norm and we don't see this in most people we meet up with or in and around our block. is far from valid since it's only an apparent "rarity."
Actually I understood your post quite well thanks...just because I have 68 as my age does not mean my powers of comprehension have faded :)

Story...noun...a narrative, either true or fictitious, in prose or verse, designed to interest, amuse, or instruct the hearer or reader; tale.

Where I come from a story is a story...it does not necessarily indicate false or incorrect information...it probably only affected you because you thought I was being derogatory...which was certainly not the case...I was actually thanking you for the information which 'proves' reincarnation.

I am quite aware of theTibetan lama tradition, I read that 50 years ago...I am also quite aware of the moral, family, traditional, religious and 'other' parts played in the upbringing and awareness of children.

I think your idea that 'vested interest' prevents children from recalling past lives is not true...The ability to recall past lives has many isolated reasons...but the main reason most cannot recall these memories is because their consciousness is not yet evolved enough to be active during the new life. Those who have achieved the ability to access Causal consciousness will remember their entire life history since they were created...billions of years...not that these recollections would be of any significance though for the new life.

The gist of my post was to indicate rarity and not the norm. Even if you took 2 million out of the current world population they would still only represent about 0.0003 of the world who have these experiences...a far cry from normal or general. To use the forum members as an indication of 'off the wall stuff' says but little...every parent wants to think their child is more gifted than the norm...I am not saying that there are not genuine cases.

We, as the current majority wave of humans, have 1000s of years ahead of us before we achieve a collective majority consciousness in higher states...trying to be clever and arrogant about our state of true knowledge just indicated the ignorance in us.

Blaming others for our own ignorance is a 'cop out'...there is nothing on this planet preventing consciousness growth.



Should that not be all the more reason why we should stop wasting our time and actually do something about our own consciousness growth. Reading stories and watching videos all day is not going to prove anything to us...just change our beliefs when something new pops up.

Take care
Ray


Just wanted to emphasize this statement of yours. Thanks, Ray.

"there is nothing on this planet preventing consciousness growth"

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Even if you took 2 million out of the current world population they would still only represent about 0.0003 of the world who have these experiences...a far cry from normal or general.

7 billion thank you's is the estimated value of the above sentence, not even remotely close to the 100th monkey effect we are, not even close, 0.0003 % is near completely negligible and way beyond marginal, waiting for answers or miracles that are very unlikely to happen or be received, random acts of kindness just once a day have the potential to fix things up or at least make life more bearable really fast, that should shift our focus to doing the right thing here and now, science, spirituality and expectations of better times with the least amount of effort could be such wonderful things.

When I think of reincarnation I only think, I better get a ffing better ride next time because this one just sucked, was plain weird, inconsistent and a mess, how the hell did I get talked into coming here, did I take the wrong turn? What happened here, does anyone at all know for sure or are we dealing with personal opinions here, a cosmic lesson, growth of my soul, yadayada, something is not right with the curriculum or the methodology, learning and growing should be easy and fun, so far my experience has been a far cry from that, yet for some stupid reason I still hope for better, ( gave up hope once and somehow things got better without any expectations at all), now I am back at hoping for some unbeknownst reason, stupid.

[araucaria]

I get the impression there are many reincarnation stories involving people who came to violent ends last time around, and many of them coming with scars to prove it. Maybe the quantity and quality of one’s unfinished business has something to do with one’s recollection of a past life – in addition of course to a culturally receptive background.

It occurs to me that, given the number of violent deaths being perpetrated, cases of past life remembrance should be on the increase – a little like improved surgery has increased the number of NDEs. And things like the increased number of NDEs have gradually been turning western society into a culturally receptive background. Past life memories is only one way of stepping onto the consciousness ladder; there are many others, including OBEs, ET experiences, and simply connecting the mind to the heart. We don’t actually know where the 100th monkey threshold stands; it may be a good way off yet, but we are getting there, that’s for sure. A mountain road does not show you anything past the next bend, but if you are climbing (and that is one thing you will know for sure), then you are getting closer to the top.

[ThePythonicCow]

Even if you took 2 million out of the current world population they would still only represent about 0.0003 of the world who have these experiences...a far cry from normal or general.


7 billion thank you's is the estimated value of the above sentence, not even remotely close to the 100th monkey effect we are, not even close, 0.0003 % is near completely negligible ...
2 million is three-ten-thousandths (0.0003) of 6 billion, or 0.03%, not 0.0003%

[Finefeather]

I get the impression there are many reincarnation stories involving people who came to violent ends last time around, and many of them coming with scars to prove it. Maybe the quantity and quality of one’s unfinished business has something to do with one’s recollection of a past life

It occurs to me that, given the number of violent deaths being perpetrated, cases of past life remembrance should be on the increase
Lets just talk a little about unfinished business, 'violent deaths', and past life memory for some possible clarity. This is a vast subject and we could relate millions of different cases so I am just going to be as generic and as short as I can for this post.

If we relate these ideas we end up with a few scenarios:

The 'unfinished business' can either become a quest for justice or a quest for revenge.
Neither of these makes any sense unless the person is totally egotistically driven at the Personality level...which is not impossible, because we see this in those who have given up their lives to serve Satanic forces...but in general, this would not be the case.

We should keep in mind that justice is only served when the one doing the 'bad' deed also does the judging and delivers the sentence. There is no one who can judge anyone who will him/herself not become the victim. No one has that right or privileged...not even the highest Being in the Cosmos. The thing we call justice on earth is just a man made set of rules based on the morals of a group or country.

There is such a thing called reaping and sowing...karma if you wish.

In order to correct or balance out 'bad' karma we need a life of bad reaping...the life might be difficult and or filled with violence and extremely traumatic death. The incarnating person is fully aware of this and has agreed to the life because it will be a positive move in the end. This is more than likely never going to be remembered at birth because it may ruin the plan.

Once the violent death has taken place and the Soul 'awakens' from it's life, it remembers, fully, the reasons for it's experiences...it judges it's own life. There is no malice or revenge towards the one metering out our death because it knows what the intention of the life was.

The most likely cause for remembering a violent death is the trauma which the person experienced during the act. Millions if not billions of us have had previous lives where we died a terrible death...wars, been blown to bits...be-headings...burnings at the stake...major accidents...and the list goes on and on.

If this was the cause of remembering a past life, everyone would by now be chatting about their previous be-heading around the camp fire :)

So, the reasons we remember past lives has many sides to it and cannot be easily compiled into a list of a general nature.

We are all different and all at different and various states of consciousness and egotistical control...there is no one answer for the many sides of the human endeavour to reach an awakened and free state of existence.

Take care
Ray

[Finefeather]

Even if you took 2 million out of the current world population they would still only represent about 0.0003 of the world who have these experiences...a far cry from normal or general.


7 billion thank you's is the estimated value of the above sentence, not even remotely close to the 100th monkey effect we are, not even close, 0.0003 % is near completely negligible ...
2 million is three-ten-thousandths (0.0003) of 6 billion, or 0.03%, not 0.0003%
Hullo Paul
If you glance up to my post you will notice I never used the % symbol...I wrote it as a fraction...I used 2 million divided by roughly 7167 million which equals 0.0003.
So I said 0.0003 of the world population...is that wrong? ...sorry I am not the Einstein in the family :)
Either way it's still a little bit.

Take care :)
Ray

[ThePythonicCow]

If you glance up to my post you will notice I never used the % symbol...I wrote it as a fraction...I used 2 million divided by roughly 7167 million which equals 0.0003.
If you glance up to my post, you will notice that I was correcting "778 neighbour of some guy", who added a %-sign to your (entirely correct) 0.0003 fraction, without moving the decimal point two places to compensate.

:)

[Finefeather]

If you glance up to my post you will notice I never used the % symbol...I wrote it as a fraction...I used 2 million divided by roughly 7167 million which equals 0.0003.
If you glance up to my post, you will notice that I was correcting "778 neighbour of some guy", who added a %-sign to your (entirely correct) 0.0003 fraction, without moving the decimal point two places to compensate.

:)
Thanks there dear wise one...I am always a little on edge when I talk maths...:)

[Hervé]

Some of the vested interests:


MKultra type of conditioning
SRA type of conditioning
Various SRA derived, custom made cult type of conditioning (includes most major religions)
ETs as in Simon Parkes account, "... they are not supposed to remember!" (abductions)
ETs as in Truman Cash's "The Programming Of A Planet" and "Eye Of Ra" (in-between lives implants, routed in via the fake, artificial white light)


PS: Someone using "story" instead of "account" leaves the ambiguity of its "tale" definition floating in the reader's mind especially when it is further nailed as the one being used when reading:
... even if true they are never the less quite rarePPS: "Unfinished business" also includes a life's scheduled "business" cut short. In the example given, the murdered body, murder weapon and murderer unmasking were incidental to the routine Druze procedure of taking any 3 y.o. to his/her former location. The birth mark was the only evidence of the trauma and if that trauma had been accompanied with a post-traumatic/hypnotic command of "not remembering"; there would have been another zombie walking this Earth.

[araucaria]

I get the impression there are many reincarnation stories involving people who came to violent ends last time around, and many of them coming with scars to prove it. Maybe the quantity and quality of one’s unfinished business has something to do with one’s recollection of a past life

It occurs to me that, given the number of violent deaths being perpetrated, cases of past life remembrance should be on the increase
Lets just talk a little about unfinished business, 'violent deaths', and past life memory for some possible clarity. This is a vast subject and we could relate millions of different cases so I am just going to be as generic and as short as I can for this post.

If we relate these ideas we end up with a few scenarios:

The 'unfinished business' can either become a quest for justice or a quest for revenge.
Neither of these makes any sense unless the person is totally egotistically driven at the Personality level...which is not impossible, because we see this in those who have given up their lives to serve Satanic forces...but in general, this would not be the case.

We should keep in mind that justice is only served when the one doing the 'bad' deed also does the judging and delivers the sentence. There is no one who can judge anyone who will him/herself not become the victim. No one has that right or privileged...not even the highest Being in the Cosmos. The thing we call justice on earth is just a man made set of rules based on the morals of a group or country.

There is such a thing called reaping and sowing...karma if you wish.

In order to correct or balance out 'bad' karma we need a life of bad reaping...the life might be difficult and or filled with violence and extremely traumatic death. The incarnating person is fully aware of this and has agreed to the life because it will be a positive move in the end. This is more than likely never going to be remembered at birth because it may ruin the plan.

Once the violent death has taken place and the Soul 'awakens' from it's life, it remembers, fully, the reasons for it's experiences...it judges it's own life. There is no malice or revenge towards the one metering out our death because it knows what the intention of the life was.

The most likely cause for remembering a violent death is the trauma which the person experienced during the act. Millions if not billions of us have had previous lives where we died a terrible death...wars, been blown to bits...be-headings...burnings at the stake...major accidents...and the list goes on and on.

If this was the cause of remembering a past life, everyone would by now be chatting about their previous be-heading around the camp fire :)

So, the reasons we remember past lives has many sides to it and cannot be easily compiled into a list of a general nature.

We are all different and all at different and various states of consciousness and egotistical control...there is no one answer for the many sides of the human endeavour to reach an awakened and free state of existence.

Take care
Ray
I was thinking more in terms of unfinished personal business due to a life being cut short. This is found in ghosts and also with time slips. In Adventures in Time: Encounters with the Past, by Andrew MacKenzie, you have a number of stories of people walking into a deserted medieval village struck by the plague, or Versailles in the last days of Marie-Antoinette, or onto battlefields – the common denominator being multiple untimely deaths. It looks rather like people and even places that die in this manner leave an imprint on a place that can be picked later, and sometimes much later. I am merely speculating that some cases of reincarnation may fit into this broader picture, whereby a person (or aspect of a person), instead of becoming imprinted on a place, becomes imprinted on another person. If a life cut short were carried on by other means, then solving a murder mystery would be a by-product of that process rather than a case of revenge, karma or whatever.

The many other cases of violent death would likely not be untimely in this sense, or if they were, they may have been processed in subsequent lives. Just speculating here, as I said; I have no theory to defend.

[Finefeather]

I was thinking more in terms of unfinished personal business due to a life being cut short. This is found in ghosts and also with time slips. In Adventures in Time: Encounters with the Past, by Andrew MacKenzie, you have a number of stories of people walking into a deserted medieval village struck by the plague, or Versailles in the last days of Marie-Antoinette, or onto battlefields – the common denominator being multiple untimely deaths. It looks rather like people and even places that die in this manner leave an imprint on a place that can be picked later, and sometimes much later. I am merely speculating that some cases of reincarnation may fit into this broader picture, whereby a person (or aspect of a person), instead of becoming imprinted on a place, becomes imprinted on another person. If a life cut short were carried on by other means, then solving a murder mystery would be a by-product of that process rather than a case of revenge, karma or whatever.

The many other cases of violent death would likely not be untimely in this sense, or if they were, they may have been processed in subsequent lives. Just speculating here, as I said; I have no theory to defend.
Well yes I understand where you are going...and agree with you in concept.

Many people have their lives cut short from the 'plan' either by carelessness, recklessness, negligence, accidents or the doings of others...and it would be a great disappointment when they get to review their life.

I am not sure what you mean by 'time slips' because I do not think such a thing exists as some might understand it...time is simply a duration of some cycle and never changes...it is the consciousness which might slip or become unconscious for a while and this might appear as a 'time slip'...like when you sleep or get knocked out by that right to the jaw :)

Consciousness determines the continuity of the time we experience...time goes on regardless.

The ghosts that are reported by most are just discarded etheric shells of the dead bodies of the incarnating person. I have seen many of these in my OB work. They are automatons with no intelligence and usually dissipate quickly, but can hang around for a while depending on the energy of the persons materiality...they consist of etheric molecular matter...and contain residual energy from the live it was a part of.

There are on the other hand some real 'Souls' in the lower plains who can be seen by some gifted with 'sight'...these are people who are lost or confused as a result of a sudden death...for many reasons. I have been fortunate and had the opportunity to assist many of these OB during my life.

I once assisted some small children during the Libyan war after their home was bombed...they were stuck under the rubble and although blown to bits they had no idea their bodies were no longer any use. They were probably traumatised but were still able to understand what we were there for. We managed to get them to those who would care for them in the higher fixed 'astral' areas.

These kinds of confusion happen often at death because most don't realise that life goes on and when the excitement has died down and reality sets in we have a very different outlook to what took us out of the life...there is virtually no unhappiness in these higher worlds because we have a broader picture.

Anyway...their are so many different scenarios that we could go on all year and come up with different interesting cases to chat and speculate about.

All I was originally trying to convey was that each life has a new clean slate as far as our Physical, Emotional and Mental envelope consciousness is concerned.

Memories of what appear to be continuations of a previous life or 'unfinished business' are from the memory banks and nature of our true Self and can...in some cases...be seen as 'unfinished business'...but as I said before...these are not generally the norm.
They are usually a result of some individual or collective plan to resolve some conflict or to gain a broader understanding of some aspect of life for consciousness growth...or part of a much broader world assistance plan.

The goal of life is consciousness growth which results in vast amounts of life knowledge and the wisdom to conduct and use our life for the betterment of the entire Cosmos which we are a part of and in unity with...because of our individuality...which is never lost...

So a planned life...and the majority of lives are planned...is never a plan to hurt another although it might appear so to the ignorant onlooker...karma is stranger than you might think or believe.

I see so many people wining about how bad their lives are yet they never take half a second to wonder what their part is in their difficult lives.

Thanks for the opportunity this thread has given me to contribute...
I think I am finished here now...

With Love
Ray

[Flash]

I was thinking more in terms of unfinished personal business due to a life being cut short. This is found in ghosts and also with time slips. In Adventures in Time: Encounters with the Past, by Andrew MacKenzie, you have a number of stories of people walking into a deserted medieval village struck by the plague, or Versailles in the last days of Marie-Antoinette, or onto battlefields – the common denominator being multiple untimely deaths. It looks rather like people and even places that die in this manner leave an imprint on a place that can be picked later, and sometimes much later. I am merely speculating that some cases of reincarnation may fit into this broader picture, whereby a person (or aspect of a person), instead of becoming imprinted on a place, becomes imprinted on another person. If a life cut short were carried on by other means, then solving a murder mystery would be a by-product of that process rather than a case of revenge, karma or whatever.

The many other cases of violent death would likely not be untimely in this sense, or if they were, they may have been processed in subsequent lives. Just speculating here, as I said; I have no theory to defend.
Well yes I understand where you are going...and agree with you in concept.

Many people have their lives cut short from the 'plan' either by carelessness, recklessness, negligence, accidents or the doings of others...and it would be a great disappointment when they get to review their life.

I am not sure what you mean by 'time slips' because I do not think such a thing exists as some might understand it...time is simply a duration of some cycle and never changes...it is the consciousness which might slip or become unconscious for a while and this might appear as a 'time slip'...like when you sleep or get knocked out by that right to the jaw :)

Consciousness determines the continuity of the time we experience...time goes on regardless.

The ghosts that are reported by most are just discarded etheric shells of the dead bodies of the incarnating person. I have seen many of these in my OB work. They are automatons with no intelligence and usually dissipate quickly, but can hang around for a while depending on the energy of the persons materiality...they consist of etheric molecular matter...and contain residual energy from the live it was a part of.

There are on the other hand some real 'Souls' in the lower plains who can be seen by some gifted with 'sight'...these are people who are lost or confused as a result of a sudden death...for many reasons. I have been fortunate and had the opportunity to assist many of these OB during my life.

I once assisted some small children during the Libyan war after their home was bombed...they were stuck under the rubble and although blown to bits they had no idea their bodies were no longer any use. They were probably traumatised but were still able to understand what we were there for. We managed to get them to those who would care for them in the higher fixed 'astral' areas.

These kinds of confusion happen often at death because most don't realise that life goes on and when the excitement has died down and reality sets in we have a very different outlook to what took us out of the life...there is virtually no unhappiness in these higher worlds because we have a broader picture.

Anyway...their are so many different scenarios that we could go on all year and come up with different interesting cases to chat and speculate about.

All I was originally trying to convey was that each life has a new clean slate as far as our Physical, Emotional and Mental envelope consciousness is concerned.

Memories of what appear to be continuations of a previous life or 'unfinished business' are from the memory banks and nature of our true Self and can...in some cases...be seen as 'unfinished business'...but as I said before...these are not generally the norm.
They are usually a result of some individual or collective plan to resolve some conflict or to gain a broader understanding of some aspect of life for consciousness growth...or part of a much broader world assistance plan.

The goal of life is consciousness growth which results in vast amounts of life knowledge and the wisdom to conduct and use our life for the betterment of the entire Cosmos which we are a part of and in unity with...because of our individuality...which is never lost...

So a planned life...and the majority of lives are planned...is never a plan to hurt another although it might appear so to the ignorant onlooker...karma is stranger than you might think or believe.

I see so many people wining about how bad their lives are yet they never take half a second to wonder what their part is in their difficult lives.

Thanks for the opportunity this thread has given me to contribute...
I think I am finished here now...

With Love
Ray

Thanks Finfeather and Araucaria

I truly enjoy reading both of you, lots of wisdom here and I always learn something new or futher the Learning path I am on. Many thanks.

[Robin]

I feel the need to bring this thread back after an epiphany of new observations.

For those who are convinced that the White Light is a good thing for souls to go to, I challenge you to re-think this notion. Why? Well, I'm sure that we ALL can agree that the PTB use media as a way to push their agendas and to provide information in a way that is creative so they can work off their Karma. Their reasoning for this is so they feel that they are still operating under the universal law of free will by putting out information for people to see, but tying their plans into films and books so people think of them as nothing more than fiction.

Here are a couple of case examples that come from series that we all are familiar with. Star Trek is a HUGE disclosure series, and no doubt contains a plethora of real-life scenarios, agendas, technology, and interactions that are part of our reality. In the 57th episode of Star Trek Voyager, "Coda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coda_(Star_Trek:_Voyager))," Kathryn Janeway is having a Near-death Experience, where an E.T. disguised as her father tries to convince her to go to a "light portal" so she can be saved. Seeing this as a trap while having flashbacks of people trying to resuscitate her dying body on Earth, out of free-will she refuses and chooses instead to go back to familiar voices. The E.T. gets angry that she discovered the real trick behind the 'White Light Trap."

I cannot find the appropriate clip on Youtube, save for in the middle of this video.

Watch this video from 25:12 to 31:00.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PgX8l9AgzE

In addition, there is the case with J.R.R. Tolkien's works, the Lord of the Rings. Tolkien was deeply embedded in occult knowledge and wrote the Lord of the Rings as a fictional account of the true history of humanity. In other words, he was deeply awake and aware and wrote the series to wake people up. He was given special knowledge by certain people, and the Lord of the Rings is rich in DISCLOSURE.

Basically, everybody is Frodo on the journey to enlightenment. This is basically all you need to know for now, but I am currently creating a video that will go into Tolkien in further depth.

He references the White Light Trap in The Two Towers when Frodo and Sam are escorted through the Dead Marshes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Marshes) by Gollum. Gollum keeps telling them to "NOT FOLLOW THE LIGHTS" as their souls will be trapped, like all of the souls who died in a great battle and became victim to a reincarnation-type cycle. The fires that are lit by all the dead people represent the White Light Trap!

Watch this whole video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPrJSRMr2Uc

And, of course, there is the example of A Bug's Life (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Bug's_Life):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTUQyEr-sg0

For those of you who refuse to believe Simon's claim that the White Light people see after death is a trap, which is validated by a lot of evidence, including what I've just shown you, I seriously wish you well on your soul journey after death. If you wish to continue this reincarnation cycle on this Prison Planet...then that decision is up to you.

[Omni]

It seems to me after we die and our soul leaves the body, we do not control what happens with our minds/souls. I think we are given an afterlife by technological means(perhaps), and then put into a young one to be reincarnated again.. So going into the white light or not would not be an option really, it would just happen or wouldn't.

Also, if beings are doing things to you, they don't need to do it after a white light or anything weird like that. They could just forgo the white light and put you in a VR(Virtual reality) or do whatever it is they wanted to do. Not like evil sources can take our souls after we die without opposition to such by ethical ETs.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Let’s use logic and two assumptions to look at this issue.

Assumption #1: There is nothing negative about being home with Source.

Assumption #2: If I choose to play in this reality again, or choose another reality game, I can make that decision while being home with Source.

I’ll develop now and reaffirm a strong intention to return home to Source at croak time, not to the light, a possible trap.

If my choice is effective, I am home free and can choose my next experience while in the best possible environment to make good decisions.

If my choice to avoid the light is irrelevant, or not effective, then what have I lost by setting my intention?

[donk]

Isn’t the fear of death limiting enough to humanity?

If there’s beings that can trick/trap/deceive us after our meatbag expires, is whatever preparation we think we are making now going to help us avoid getting our souls eaten?

I think it is interesting to entertain the thought that some diabolical beings can manipulate our paths after we die, just like now…as above, so below? But as former Philadelphia Eagle Ricky Watters famously said once: For who? For what?

You want to talk about logic? Mine tells me that if facing beings/tech that can trap and trick my soul, that this is all just a game where I’m being used--a battery for better informed inhabitants of the reality, able to manipulate in ways I cannot see—well, my free will choice (or at least, the illusion of it) will be based on the circumstances of that moment. I’m glad the idea has now been implanted into my consciousness, that anything I have been taught to think of as good (or God), can just be the “devil” in disguise. And that I have a lot to learn (or need to get real lucky…or real good help) in order to able to avoid it.

…but again, for who? For what?

I believe that all we really have is intention, which comes with (at least the illusion of) free will. So if faced with another illusion, I don’t believe I can make the wrong choice, that I can only have the “wrong” intentions.

I like thinking about the mechanics of the “white light”, just like I like imaging the ramifications of “official disclosure”. I feel I have grown a lot, learning when I am discerning information that may be of value to me, and when I am just consuming it—or just playing, or just distracting….always doing my best to keep in mind in that it’s mostly all “negotiable”, but for the truth.

In this case, the truth is:
-fear of death is one of the most limiting attachments a human can have, and perhaps the easiest to use to manipulate one.
-you can only be manipulated if you allow yourself to be--OR if the being manipulating you knows you better than you know yourself—and therefore has the ability to deceive you

To me, this means as to any white light traps, I will have to cross that bridge when I get there. Nearly all information received in this incarnation seems tainted to me, I try to consume it all as other’s perspectives, discerning the bits that many seem to share, knowing that everyone (especially me) probably doesn’t everything completely clearly/accurately. So the possibility that it’s a trap is important, nice to have that “bit” in my back pocket when I come to experience that which SOOOO many KNOW is good/God.

I don't fear death. I don't relish the idea of my soul being enslaved by another being after my death, but it is just as easy for a human to do it to me NOW (like, for example, the tons of slaves that have existed on this earth, manipulated by beings with more power--aka INFORMATION)...so I don't spend any more time fretting over it than I do worrying some freak is gonna kidnap my kids and sell them on the sex slave market. Sure, it could happen...is actually more likely than mantis beings from the tenth moon of Jupiter could use the energy that is me to light their farts. I'd love to dismantle the sex slave trade as much as I'd like to stop any horrid soul suckers tricking humanity, so I applaud anyone taking up either cause...just a gentle reminder: don't cause as more problems than you are trying to solve.

Anyways, like I said....it's interesting but not all that important...though to me, it does beg the questions: why does Heaven/reintegrating with Source to me seem like the exact definition of Hell?? How is being reabsorbed into “Source” or hanging with God in heaven any less of a “trap”? What exactly is it that most people around me, especially the more "open-minded" and "enlightened" ones, actually LIVE for?

9bKW7JkHKm8

[onawah]

There is a very good essay here:http://www.swami-center.org/en/text/Juan_Matus.html
on the instructions to Carlos Castenada's from his teacher, Don Juan Matus.
(It would be wonderful if we could skip the usual conversation about whether Matus actually existed on not, and just go on the merits of the teachings, which are excellent, by any standard, imho.)
Here are some samples from that essay:
What was the worldview concept of the School?
The universe consists of two “parallel” worlds: the first of them is called the tonal (that is, the world of material things), and the second — the nagual (the non-material world).
We communicate with the world of matter through the so-called first attention, i.e. the attention relying on the organs of sense of the physical body.
To become able of cognizing the nagual, one has to develop the second attention, that is, clairvoyance.
There is also the third attention, by means of which one perceives the Creator and His Manifestation, which don Juan referred to as the Fire.
According to the mythology shared by don Juan’s predecessors, the world is governed by the universal divine Eagle. This was their concept of God. However fantastic it seems, it is monotheistic.
This Eagle feeds on souls that leave human bodies. But the Eagle also confers the chance on some people to “skip” past His beak after death and to achieve immortality, provided that during their life in the body they acquired skills necessary for this, developed themselves as consciousnesses to the required degree, and gained the required power.
This concept contained a frightening element, which was supposed to force a person to make efforts on self-perfection. But, like Jesus Christ, don Juan strongly opposed this attitude towards God, which was based on fear. He said that in order to approach God, one has to take the path of heart — that is the path of Love. It is interesting that don Juan came to this understanding independently of the influence of other spiritual traditions. He was not familiar with the Teachings of either Krishna or Jesus Christ, nor has he ever read Sufi or Taoist books. It is obvious that he did not read the New Testament, otherwise he would quote it for sure.
A person resolved to achieve immortality, first has to become a “hunter”. Not a hunter who kills game, but that for knowledge, who walks the path of heart — caring, loving both the Earth and beings that live on it.
Having mastered the stage of spiritual “hunter”, one can become a spiritual “warrior” — that is the one who “traces” Power (God), striving to “stalk” It and to cognize It.


But suddenly he heard the voice of don Juan saying that this state was, though fine, — not that to which he had to aspire now. You have to advance further! Do not think that this is the limit of your abilities… With these words don Juan suggested to Castaneda, who had cognized the supreme bliss of Nirvana, not to “get attached” to this bliss, but to keep on going further… At first, Castaneda felt offended and angry with don Juan, but the latter was unbending: one must advance further!…
And what is further? It is the dynamic aspect of Nirvana when the crystallized consciousness acts in the subtle eons. In this state, one can touch with the consciousness any being within the Earth and around it; in order to do this, one needs just to have information about this being.
The state of Nirodhi, known in all developed Schools of Buddhi Yoga, don Juan described also in endemic terms specific to this School. The disciples were taught that there exist energy waves, which constantly roll on all living creatures and from which we are shielded by our cocoons. And that one can use the power of these waves for transferring oneself with their help into unknown worlds. (These unknown worlds are other spatial dimensions). To make it happen, one has to allow the rolling force to flood the cocoon. Then one turns into “nothing”, one’s “I” dies.
It is only after attaining the state of disappearance in Brahman that it becomes possible to cognize Ishvara — and to disappear in Him forever, having conquered death. That is, as don Juan understood, one must not “skip past the Eagle’s beak” but to merge into universal God-Power.

These instructions are comparable to those of any Mystery School devoted to achieving the freeing of the human soul, though the terminology and specific practices may differ.

It may also be useful to consider how the Native Americans view the Eagle.
From:http://www.native-american-spirituality.info/eagle.html


“I like the name Eagle. Eagle means much to an Native American…
“The eagle knows the freedom! The eagle knows the flight! The eagle lives where there are only the wind, the sun, mountains, fathomless precipices, and — the freedom!…
“The eagle is born free and dies free! It is born to fly, to live its life soaring over mountains! Uniting the wings with the wind, the eagle gains the power which allows soaring!…
“And when death comes — the eagle knows beforehand the time of its coming. The eagle rises high to the sky, for the last time, — and casts off the flesh unneeded from that moment on. The eagle continues living in the spirit, soaring above the tops of mountains illuminated by the rising sun!
“… I like the name Eagle. The Warrior of Spirit can be likened to an eagle! The Warrior of Spirit is born to live free and to die free! The Warrior of Spirit unites the Wings of Spirit with the Power of the Creator — and learns to soar over the world of matter, being guided and supported by this Power. The Warrior of Spirit soars through the current of Eternity, and the Power of God manifests Itself through Warrior’s body. The Warrior of Spirit glides in the Infinity and Eternity of life, bound by nothing but Love, and united with the Power by this Love!
“… The Warrior of Spirit knows the time of the death of the body and casts off the flesh, needed no longer, a moment before the body would die due to other reasons.
“But one can achieve even more: by uniting the Power with the physical body and igniting the Fire from within, the Warrior of Spirit can turn the matter of the body into Spirit!”

[bruno dante]

"Don't cause any more problems than you are trying to solve."

Thanks for your wisdom there Donk, and also for making me laugh today (the Jupiter pissing thing). Great post.

[DNA]

I think if folks develop a relationship with their quiet mind they will not need the voices of this thread giving advice on a matter such as this. I think fear is the biggest enemy here. I do not think there is a danger either way. It is my opinion (and that matters very little) that we should go into the light. But the dangers are probably very minimal if in fact we want to wonder around as a ghost for a little while first.

I think this is the single best example of why it would be a good thing for someone to go into the light.
It is the best documented, and scientifically validated NDE of all time in my opinion.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNbdUEqDB-k

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Perhaps it is impossible for an eternal being to make an incorrect decision, be it going to the light, return to Source or anything else. From that perspective, choices are simply paths to explore on a never ending journey of self discovery. Some paths lead to more freedom, well being and joy. Other paths lead to more challenging learning experiences.

Then we learn and choose again.

[observer]

Nothing enrages me more than the idea that hyperdimensional entities are feeding on the soul-essence of the Mass of Humanity.

Any member is free to deny this concept, to categorize the idea as fear mongering, to mimic the cliché regarding how we create our own reality. These are all responses of an individual in denial of the evidence. The evidence for this feeding process goes back to the earliest written words discovered from antiquity. The trail of evidence can be followed back to the Dawn of Humanity.

No sentient being has the right to feed-off the essence of any other sentient being in any capacity. Feeding-off others is what got us cast into this pit of vipers in the first place. In a universe of Unconditional Love, one does not even entertain the concept of "feeding-off another sentient being". We are all dwelling here in this particular reality among the fallen. No message can be more clear, going all the way back into great antiquity.

If this particular reality were really a "place of ascension", each individual eternal soul would have total recall of their past life experiences. The lessons gained in the progression of lifetimes - both positive and negative - would be invaluable to any ascending soul. Only by denying access to this information can an hyperdimensional species hold power over those souls attempting to ascend back to a place of Unconditional Love. That access is denied through the clever process of "feeding on those energies".

Deny the facts all one wishes, we are all trapped here within this matrix, feeding a demiurge and the matrix structure that demiurge has created - a prison planet farming operation.

I can't say it with more emotion, don't go into the light.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghSq2qlwrs0

We all have the free will to make any choice we wish....

***Add***



[....snip]
Agreeing to the contract is the key to trapping one's eternal soul into this matrix. Many Souls make this agreement without ever realizing what they have done. Understanding this concept is the key to releasing one's self from this trap.

[citsym]

After reading this thread and the works of Dr. Corrado Malanga, I remembered that a house mate of mine, back in the mid 1990's, always saying "don't go to the light when you die". At the time we all thought he was mad... but now I thank him and the reminders I am getting at this time.

[heyokah]

Let's now try to see it from God's perspective.... (* satire)

http://i61.tinypic.com/21i08.png

Not for the faint of heart, the not-shock-resistant, the ones with weak anklets, or for those without a sense of humor....
Who did I leave out? Oh, yes.... the ones with 'good taste'. Of course. :faint:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxc20saM8DA

* ADD

If one cares to listen, the truth comes through.

As a friend of mine said, "Maybe "offense" is merely "a fence" that keeps out the faint of heart".

*

[greybeard]

The lower astral is major force for misery, fear and pain in this world---that true.
So what to do about it????
I would suggest looking seriously at personal spiritual evolution.
For me that is enlightenment.
In that state going into the light or not is irrelevant---the enlightened do not reincarnate.
Nothing and no one has power over One in the enlightened state.
What is helpful too is avoidance of negative, fear raising input.
Disaster and Horror films being a case in point.

Some thing to keep in mind, according to thousands of years of enlightened spiritual teaching.
Nothing and no one including aliens are closer to spiritual Truth than you. me us.
This just has to be discovered.
Christ said it---"The Father resides within me, heaven is within" that applies to us too.
Doesn’t get much closer than that does it?
The absolute spiritual Truth, as set out in the oldest and most recent text, is that, there only is One with out a second and "I am that"
This applies to everyone without exception.

Chris

[truthseekerdan]

After reading this thread and the works of Dr. Corrado Malanga, I remembered that a house mate of mine, back in the mid 1990's, always saying "don't go to the light when you die". At the time we all thought he was mad... but now I thank him and the reminders I am getting at this time.

The only thing that one realises after "dieing" is, that it was all just a dream, and the One who had the dream...

Namaste. 💜

[BF88]

I can remember going into the light last time with no issues that i am aware of although i did end up back here obviously! (voluntarily). I do remember though not remembering whether i should or shouldn't go into it. I suppose it is like most things do what you think is the right thing to do at the time or trust your intuition!

[donk]

It seems to me that any technology capable of manipulating our post-3D death reality would be but a novelty to whatever was "knowing" enough to be able to do it, right? If their tech is that good, do they really need to deceive us and go through all that to get whatever it is they want?

[BF88]

Sounds like a reasonable point donk although perhaps this is where free choice comes into play. If when someone dies they choose to go to the light they are they willingly submitting to those who created that technology? Perhaps not from an Earthly perspective but if they are not of an Earthly origin their perspective could be very different.

[donk]

Yeah…it’s hard, but fun, to try to get in the head of a completely alien (pun intended) mindset. I’m stuck on earthly logic, where there’s the Occams Razor (of sorts) that would go like:

-the elaborate trap set up in that plane we got to when our meat-bag is done…
-while cultivating a culture of misery (or at least extreme bi-polarity…a society gushing “loosh”…aka: CIVILIZATION)…

…in us “lower” 3D incarnated beings, during our 5 sense earth life is the most effect process of getting whatever it is they want/need. Right? Isn’t the assumption that we are all agreeing on is that there IS A WHITE LIGHT…whether it is god/death/whatever or an “artificial” trap, we are basing the thread on that common ground?

So if we assume it is a trap: it would seem that the white light and social engineering in a cycle of reincarnation are the most efficient mechanisms (on this plane of existence) of harvesting our soul energy,

-OR-

it’s not about efficiency: the “advanced” high-tech-having beings are somehow more “fulfilled” by these evil-to-us constructs, that they’re a novelty to them.

So to you believers in the “trap”…do the trappers “need” whatever they get from it? Or just “like” to do it?

……and exploring the other end of the “earthly logic”, if it is not a trap (but does exist), then it just happens. It’s the next step of our journey. Maybe you have a choice, some control/free will, maybe you don’t.

I like to try to keep my mind open that going down this road is useful, that “gathering data” about this will help make a conscious decision when the time comes…but somehow I just can’t imagine much of it is valid. Seems to me that most “information” on the topic all stems from the “fear of death” program we’ve been lulled to sleep and lied to about.

[Pris]

So to you believers in the “trap”…do the trappers “need” whatever they get from it? Or just “like” to do it?



We haven't normally been 'taught' that this white light is a trap, so the premise that it is a trap peaks my interest... because most of what we've been taught is crappola anyway.

Sure, what if the 'trappers' are just a bunch of arse ends? Even just 'liking' what they do is definitely fulfilling some kind of need or want on their part.

Still, I get the impression they are feeding off of us. I don't believe there is a white light tunnel trap -- it is either is a trap or it isn't a trap. I think it is a trap -- a very elaborate one at that.

[Pris]

I can remember going into the light last time with no issues that i am aware of although i did end up back here obviously! (voluntarily). I do remember though not remembering whether i should or shouldn't go into it. I suppose it is like most things do what you think is the right thing to do at the time or trust your intuition!

Of course you had 'no issues'. "Your mission was to come back here to 'tell us' that" so that we would be misled -- at least this is one point-of-view I tend to agree with.

"Hey, look everyone, it's safe!" I'm not 'buying' it.

[BF88]

My mission is only to observe. I'm not trying to sell the idea, go into the light if you want or don't if you don't want to your the only one who can make that choice. From what i remember going into the light did result in ending up somewhere that other beings were present but in what form i honestly can not say at this time i do hope to figure it out one day though. I suppose it depends on what your goal is, it seems to be that if you want to 'return to source' or words to that effect then stay away from the light, if not, go towards it?

[Hogswitch]

So to you believers in the “trap”…do the trappers “need” whatever they get from it? Or just “like” to do it?



The only thing I know for sure is that beyond all reason I just don't want to go into the light, call it a gut feeling if you will. So this is highly speculative and in all likelihood not at all true.

What if it's a question of perspective? We know that on earth people like to organise and control things, even "good" people. They like to put systems in place to make things run smoothly. Now many people are quite happy to go along with the systems that have been put in place. They feel comfortable with the sense of order and stability that comes from things being organised for them by others. In some ways perhaps the afterlife is not so different. Maybe there are beings there who like to control and organise things and there are those happy to be controlled and organised. Now for those people the whole, afterlife conveyor belt is just what they need. They die, standard operating procedures kick in and they're shepherded through the whole process of being reincarnated by the numbers. 1) Death 2)White light 3)Meet and greet 4)Life Review 5)Holding Area 6)New Incarnation Selection 7)Memory Wipe 8)Back to Earth. So for those people there is no perception of a trap, simply a well ordered transition between lives.

Now we all know there are some people even on earth who hate being told what to do, even for their own good. People who seem to have have an almost pathological desire for freedom. Perhaps this desire comes from something deeper or maybe they are just natural pains in the arse, who knows? Now how would these people see the whole between lives factory system. How would they feel when some afterlife greeter dresses up as their dead aunty and ushers them to their seat on the reincarnation train? They are going to kick off and run screaming right? Having had a bellyful of control systems on earth they are going to demand something a little more interesting from the realms beyond, not more of the same. They are going to see a trap in the white light. So perhaps it is after all a question of perception.

[Pris]

What if it's a question of perspective? We know that on earth people like to organise and control things, even "good" people. They like to put systems in place to make things run smoothly. Now many people are quite happy to go along with the systems that have been put in place. They feel comfortable with the sense of order and stability that comes from things being organised for them by others. In some ways perhaps the afterlife is not so different. Maybe there are beings there who like to control and organise things and there are those happy to be controlled and organised. Now for those people the whole, afterlife conveyor belt is just what they need. They die and standard operating procedures kick in. They are shepherded through the whole process of being reincarnated by the numbers 1) Death 2)White light 3)Meet and greet 4)Life Review 5)Holding Area 6)New Incarnation Selection 7)Memory Wipe 8)Back to Earth. So for those people there is no perception of a trap simply a well ordered transition between lives.

This reminded me of the scene from 'Cloud Atlas' where the enslaved women are happy because they think they will eventually be set free. Everything is organized, everything is controlled. They unknowingly end up butchered.

Ignorance is not always bliss.

[Hogswitch]

This reminded me of the scene from 'Cloud Atlas' where the enslaved women are happy because they think they will eventually be set free. Everything is organized, everything is controlled. They unknowingly end up butchered.



Or the Carrousel (sic) setup in Logan's run where they all think they are going to be renewed but actually they are fried ;)

[Hervé]

[...]

Now we all know there are some people even on earth who hate being told what to do, even for their own good, they have an almost pathological desire for freedom, could it perhaps be that this characteristic comes from something deeper, maybe some characteristic of their souls, now how would these people see the whole between lives factory system....

[...]

Well, here is that infamous Milgram experiment revisited:

Psychologists Have Uncovered a Troubling Feature of People Who Seem Nice All the Time (http://mic.com/articles/92479/psychologists-have-uncovered-a-troubling-feature-of-people-who-seem-nice-all-the-time?utm_source=policymicFB&utm_medium=main&utm_campaign=social)

http://thumbs.mic.com/IEiBg7bZK4wPD6OWDXlekl_Rk9E=/25x25/smart/https%3A%2F%2Fs3.amazonaws.com%2Fpolicymic-images%2Fc34e7c5aa93375ee0895d5f1d48407927eb2c03b9f9f47eb5222c03ea3a73b60.jpg (http://mic.com/profiles/87869/eileen-shim) By Eileen Shim (http://mic.com/profiles/87869/eileen-shim) June 30, 2014

In 1961, curious about a person's willingness to obey an authority figure, social psychologist Stanley Milgram began trials on his now-famous experiment (http://youtu.be/fCVlI-_4GZQ?t=2m43s). In it, he tested how far a subject would go electrically shocking a stranger (actually an actor faking the pain) simply because they were following orders. Some subjects, Milgram found, would follow directives until the person was dead.

The news: A new Milgram-like experiment published this month in the Journal of Personality (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jopy.12104/abstract) has taken this idea to the next step by trying to understand which kinds of people are more or less willing to obey these kinds of orders. What researchers discovered was surprising: Those who are described as "agreeable, conscientious personalities" are more likely to follow orders and deliver electric shocks that they believe can harm innocent people, while "more contrarian, less agreeable personalities" are more likely to refuse to hurt others.

The methodology and findings: For an eight-month period, the researchers interviewed the study participants to gauge their social personality, as well as their personal history and political leanings. When they matched this data to the participants' behavior during the experiment, a distinct pattern (http://io9.com/psychologists-find-that-nice-people-are-more-likely-to-1597267257?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook&utm_source=io9_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow) emerged: People who were normally friendly followed orders because they didn't want to upset others, while those who were described as unfriendly stuck up for themselves.

"The irony is that a personality disposition normally seen as antisocial — disagreeableness — may actually be linked to 'pro-social' behavior,'" writes Psychology Today's Kenneth Worthy (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-green-mind/201406/are-polite-people-more-violent-and-destructive). "This connection seems to arise from a willingness to sacrifice one's popularity a bit to act in a moral and just way toward other people, animals or the environment at large. Popularity, in the end, may be more a sign of social graces and perhaps a desire to fit in than any kind of moral superiority."

The study also found that people holding left-wing political views were less willing to hurt others. One particular group held steady and refused destructive orders:

"women who had previously participated in rebellious political activism such as strikes or occupying a factory."

The Nazi effect: The findings lend themselves even further to Milgram's original goal in the '60s: trying to understand the rise of Nazism (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2013/10/02/the-shocking-truth-of-the-notorious-milgram-obedience-experiments/#.U7FVLFhdXs4). Milgram began his experiments in July 1961, three months after the start of the trial of German Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann. He believed his findings might help explain how seemingly nice people can do horrible things if they are ordered to do so.

Does that mean the Nazis were just nice people trying to follow orders and be polite? You probably wouldn't want to go that far, but suffice to say, it turns out nice people just want to appease authorities, while rebels stick to their guns.


*********************************************


So... here is another trap for "nice people": seeking to please, therefore avoiding rocking the boat or quick the apple cart which tacitly leads to supporting the current status quo and therefore leaning towards being "authoritarian followers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_authoritarianism)" otherwise known as robots, AKA "sheeple"... etc.

Accordingly... who the hell does one think one is to dare defy God's authority delegated into Archangel Whatchamacallit!?!... eh?

Of course the ones raising their hands are whistleblowers, patriots, freedom fighters AKA "terrorists," etc....

Good boy! Go fetch Snowden across the pond! Go!

[Pris]

This reminded me of the scene from 'Cloud Atlas' where the enslaved women are happy because they think they will eventually be set free. Everything is organized, everything is controlled. They unknowingly end up butchered.



Or the Carrousel (sic) setup in Logan's run where they all think they are going to be renewed but actually they are fried ;)

Yes! Exactly! That's a perfect example. :) What a haunting scene. It really makes you want to go 'run for the hills'.

[Pris]

I can remember going into the light last time with no issues that i am aware of although i did end up back here obviously! (voluntarily). I do remember though not remembering whether i should or shouldn't go into it. I suppose it is like most things do what you think is the right thing to do at the time or trust your intuition!


My mission is only to observe.

May I suggest that your mission has been more than to simply 'observe'. You're here telling us about it. That opens up a whole new can of worms.

[BF88]

You could be right. Although the message was very clear, it was more like observe, watch and understand etc and perhaps conversing with others is part of that understanding process. Learning what other peoples experiences have been or opinions / beliefs on such matters will, I hope, help me make sense of it. Perhaps I have lost the plot as well or never had one in the first place. :o

[Pris]

You could be right. Although the message was very clear, it was more like observe, watch and understand etc and perhaps conversing with others is part of that understanding process. Learning what other peoples experiences have been or opinions / beliefs on such matters will, I hope, help me make sense of it. Perhaps I have lost the plot as well or never had one in the first place. :o

LOL! I bet the message they gave you was 'very clear'! ;) That's the whole point.

As for the 'understanding' part: understand = stand under. Don't think for one second you ever have to stand under anyone. :)

[Wind]

This reminded me of the scene from 'Cloud Atlas' where the enslaved women are happy because they think they will eventually be set free. Everything is organized, everything is controlled. They unknowingly end up butchered.

This is where I agree and disagree. We are being used as "batteries" here on Earth perhaps, but that is all that is being "organized" from the nasties. The other organizers who have orchestrated this universe and the afterlife are benevolent. They allow the nasties to do their thing only to a certain extent. Maybe we need adversaries like that to make us grow as soul even faster. No pain, no gain I'm afraid.

Of course we can always be suspicious of everything and doubt even our own sanity (I do that often!), but I find it funny that these days most of the people are afraid of death and they don't believe in afterlife or in soul. They only believe in what they see, which is this three dimensional matrix. Others believe in some kind of a heaven and the rest are agnostics and us spiritual people. I know that the concept of karma is hard for many to accept, but it is not punishment. We are here to learn and grow our souls even if the game has been "hijacked", we are here to change it.

Jesus said: "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you."

The Law of One states: "The mind/body/spirit complex is born under a series of influences, both lunar, planetary, cosmic, and in some cases, karmic. The moment of the birthing into this illusion begins the cycles we have mentioned."

Many, many other sources like Edgar Cayce confirm that to be the truth. Of course it is up to the individual to believe what they believe and have their "truth", but ultimately just know that the universe is benevolent and we are not victims. We are meaningful beings and we are here for a reason. Life is what we make of it.

[Flash]

[...]

Now we all know there are some people even on earth who hate being told what to do, even for their own good, they have an almost pathological desire for freedom, could it perhaps be that this characteristic comes from something deeper, maybe some characteristic of their souls, now how would these people see the whole between lives factory system....

[...]

Well, here is that infamous Milgram experiment revisited:

Psychologists Have Uncovered a Troubling Feature of People Who Seem Nice All the Time (http://mic.com/articles/92479/psychologists-have-uncovered-a-troubling-feature-of-people-who-seem-nice-all-the-time?utm_source=policymicFB&utm_medium=main&utm_campaign=social)

http://thumbs.mic.com/IEiBg7bZK4wPD6OWDXlekl_Rk9E=/25x25/smart/https%3A%2F%2Fs3.amazonaws.com%2Fpolicymic-images%2Fc34e7c5aa93375ee0895d5f1d48407927eb2c03b9f9f47eb5222c03ea3a73b60.jpg (http://mic.com/profiles/87869/eileen-shim) By Eileen Shim (http://mic.com/profiles/87869/eileen-shim) June 30, 2014

In 1961, curious about a person's willingness to obey an authority figure, social psychologist Stanley Milgram began trials on his now-famous experiment (http://youtu.be/fCVlI-_4GZQ?t=2m43s). In it, he tested how far a subject would go electrically shocking a stranger (actually an actor faking the pain) simply because they were following orders. Some subjects, Milgram found, would follow directives until the person was dead.

The news: A new Milgram-like experiment published this month in the Journal of Personality (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jopy.12104/abstract) has taken this idea to the next step by trying to understand which kinds of people are more or less willing to obey these kinds of orders. What researchers discovered was surprising: Those who are described as "agreeable, conscientious personalities" are more likely to follow orders and deliver electric shocks that they believe can harm innocent people, while "more contrarian, less agreeable personalities" are more likely to refuse to hurt others.

The methodology and findings: For an eight-month period, the researchers interviewed the study participants to gauge their social personality, as well as their personal history and political leanings. When they matched this data to the participants' behavior during the experiment, a distinct pattern (http://io9.com/psychologists-find-that-nice-people-are-more-likely-to-1597267257?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook&utm_source=io9_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow) emerged: People who were normally friendly followed orders because they didn't want to upset others, while those who were described as unfriendly stuck up for themselves.

"The irony is that a personality disposition normally seen as antisocial — disagreeableness — may actually be linked to 'pro-social' behavior,'" writes Psychology Today's Kenneth Worthy (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-green-mind/201406/are-polite-people-more-violent-and-destructive). "This connection seems to arise from a willingness to sacrifice one's popularity a bit to act in a moral and just way toward other people, animals or the environment at large. Popularity, in the end, may be more a sign of social graces and perhaps a desire to fit in than any kind of moral superiority."

The study also found that people holding left-wing political views were less willing to hurt others. One particular group held steady and refused destructive orders:

"women who had previously participated in rebellious political activism such as strikes or occupying a factory."

The Nazi effect: The findings lend themselves even further to Milgram's original goal in the '60s: trying to understand the rise of Nazism (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2013/10/02/the-shocking-truth-of-the-notorious-milgram-obedience-experiments/#.U7FVLFhdXs4). Milgram began his experiments in July 1961, three months after the start of the trial of German Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann. He believed his findings might help explain how seemingly nice people can do horrible things if they are ordered to do so.

Does that mean the Nazis were just nice people trying to follow orders and be polite? You probably wouldn't want to go that far, but suffice to say, it turns out nice people just want to appease authorities, while rebels stick to their guns.


*********************************************


So... here is another trap for "nice people": seeking to please, therefore avoiding rocking the boat or quick the apple cart which tacitly leads to supporting the current status quo and therefore leaning towards being "authoritarian followers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_authoritarianism)" otherwise known as robots, AKA "sheeple"... etc.

Accordingly... who the hell does one think one is to dare defy God's authority delegated into Archangel Whatchamacallit!?!... eh?

Of course the ones raising their hands are whistleblowers, patriots, freedom fighters AKA "terrorists," etc....

Good boy! Go fetch Snowden across the pond! Go!



i cannot believe nobody commeted on Amer Zo post here above. This is extremely interesting. The sheeple are nice, not out of goodness (or service to others) but out of sheer laziness most of the time, or fear, not wanting to rock the boat, wanting to keep their image of themselves intact (goodness which is in fact meekiness)

Gosh, I would wish some further studies will be make on that dimension of human beings.

On one hand, you have the psychopath who takes control and do not care about others, mostly not about other's thinking and views, wanting to satisfy his own desires, and on the other hand you have the meek who wants to please the psycho and has no reasoning left in himself.

Both in fact are not service to others, but service to self.

I bet anything that most on Avalon would contradict the orders to harm. We are a subset that must be interesting to study for PTB.

[Shezbeth]

If you're doing it 'right', there is no choice to 'go towards' or 'go away' from the light. YOU are the light, and everything ELSE is illusion.

I'm sorry, I seemed to have spilled some seasoning.

:brushteeth:

[Agape]

If you're doing it 'right', there is no choice to 'go towards' or 'go away' from the light. YOU are the light, and everything ELSE is illusion.

I'm sorry, I seemed to have spilled some seasoning.

:brushteeth:

I think that's it. The right point . Till you are there is also light . You will see your light reflected in various objects in the darkness and you will also see others light .
Life is both 'light' and 'seeing' .

If there are any bad guys their sole policy is 'shut up', 'turn it off' , 'stop shining' . Or , they beam you with million megawatts in order to show they're real big . Use all possible potentials to create powerful oversoul. It's where most people go anyway .
But it's not the fault of the 'bad guys' at that time , anymore, more than it was at time when these souls were incarnated .
The souls who are not mature enough in life, did not develop enough individuality, are part of the 'hive mind' , now and also 'then after' . It's not a complete loss but it is a 'mess' , and they come back with shared memories and weak sense of individuality again.


:washing:

[Pris]

This reminded me of the scene from 'Cloud Atlas' where the enslaved women are happy because they think they will eventually be set free. Everything is organized, everything is controlled. They unknowingly end up butchered.

This is where I agree and disagree. We are being used as "batteries" here on Earth perhaps, but that is all that is being "organized" from the nasties. The other organizers who have orchestrated this universe and the afterlife are benevolent. They allow the nasties to do their thing only to a certain extent. Maybe we need adversaries like that to make us grow as soul even faster. No pain, no gain I'm afraid.

Of course we can always be suspicious of everything and doubt even our own sanity (I do that often!), but I find it funny that these days most of the people are afraid of death and they don't believe in afterlife or in soul. They only believe in what they see, which is this three dimensional matrix. Others believe in some kind of a heaven and the rest are agnostics and us spiritual people. I know that the concept of karma is hard for many to accept, but it is not punishment. We are here to learn and grow our souls even if the game has been "hijacked", we are here to change it.

Jesus said: "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you."

The Law of One states: "The mind/body/spirit complex is born under a series of influences, both lunar, planetary, cosmic, and in some cases, karmic. The moment of the birthing into this illusion begins the cycles we have mentioned."

Many, many other sources like Edgar Cayce confirm that to be the truth. Of course it is up to the individual to believe what they believe and have their "truth", but ultimately just know that the universe is benevolent and we are not victims. We are meaningful beings and we are here for a reason. Life is what we make of it.

Thanks for that, Wind. I just don't know... how you can be so certain that those guys on the other side are benevolent particularly when they've 'orchestrated this universe and the afterlife'. It sounds... manipulative to me.

'As above so below'. If we're manipulated down here, why not 'up there'?

Karma for me is a belief because I don't think it just 'is'. It is a 'concept' that I need to believe in for it to have 'power over me'. Karma is self-imposed punishment IMO. Personally, I would not wish any kind of self-imposed punishment upon anyone regardless of what they may or may not have done. This 'balancing out' thing obviously doesn't work because here we are yet again. If it's true, you'd think after thousands of years and how many lifetimes (supposedly) we'd have it right by now. This karma thing seems to go hand-in-hand with this mind-wiped reincarnation thing. I strongly feel we need to remember. This 'school of hard knocks' idea where we're all here to learn and grow without our past-life memories to influence us -- I don't buy it. Sounds more like a self-perpetuating prison... but, it requires your consent. No consent, no prison.

http://www.onelifecounselling.com.au/images/ouroboros.jpg

I have trouble with 'The Law of One' as well because of this 'Ra' character and the apparent connection with the 'archons' ('the Authorities'). Sounds like a 'fourth dimensional' construct. Anything 'hierarchical/authoritarian' waves red flags in my face.

Here's another example of an 'archon': Archangel Michael. It's right there in the name.


The Law of One states: "The mind/body/spirit complex is born under a series of influences, both lunar, planetary, cosmic, and in some cases, karmic. The moment of the birthing into this illusion begins the cycles we have mentioned."

I've heard that this whole solar system was set up as an elaborate prison to hold us here on Earth. That may or may not be true, but it certainly makes me 'think'. :)

[greybeard]

I suppose it comes down to whether you want to believe in Non-duality (enlightenment) or not.
There is plenty of evidence first hand for this, Eckhart Tolle, Mooji, Adyashanti and many others including Tims account in spiritual section.
All stating that there is only one consciousness, awareness and you/we are that.
Yogananda stated that "The darkness comes from the same place as the light"
The enlightened in India are known to say "I am the totality all of it"
If you believe enlightened teachers the going into the light or not going into the light is irrelevant to what in reality you truly are.
If the body dies before enlightenment of the self then you have not graduated from the university of this world, then back you come in another body.

If you want to believe that others are in control and its dangerous to go into the light then I suspect you will come back here.
Teachers like Krishna the Buddha and virtually every other enlightened teacher have said find out who you truly are beyond concepts, belief systems, persona, the body and then you know you are One with "God" (or any other name for the Ultimate you chose.)
The Ultimate which is what you are is described as "One without a second" there is no other.

Believe what you wish but enlightenment is not a belief its a Self knowing fact.
No outside teacher influence is required as the Truth lies within everyone.
Teachers can point the way, but they are clear that the ultimate teacher lies within just waiting to be discovered.
Put no head above your own said The Buddha.

Chris

[Finefeather]

how you can be so certain that those guys on the other side are benevolent particularly when they've 'orchestrated this universe and the afterlife'. It sounds... manipulative to me.

'As above so below'. If we're manipulated down here, why not 'up there'?
I have been in this 'afterlife' you are referring to...many times...I have done rescue work there for many years...and I can state from personal experience that the manipulation is only a result of our own ignorance and our gullibility to believe people who have never experienced this place...yet they have so much to say about it.

Sure there are forces which can be quite scary to confront but...

When we complete a life there is more than enough assistance for you to safely get through these lower worlds and there is a 99% chance that you will not even know that this 'place' existed. You have to be very 'evil' minded and truly indoctrinated to encounter these forces.

These forces if encountered are NOT some army of evil warriors with all forms of weapons and tactics to capture you and torture you :)...they are simply dark energies which influence the weak minded and those who have been mind manipulated on earth by people who have no idea themselves of what really happens when we cross over after a life...they will be more than pleased, when they discover all the BS that people have inundated them with during their willingness to belief anything. :)

And quess what? These dark forces are nothing more that our brothers and sisters who have fallen into the trap of materialism, jealousy, hatred, power madness and a love for themselves and a desire to only seek self gratification...and to hell with anyone or anything else. (please excuse my tone...I only sound mad...actually I'm so happy...because I know the truth about this) :)



This 'balancing out' thing obviously doesn't work because here we are yet again. If it's true, you'd think after thousands of years and how many lifetimes (supposedly) we'd have it right by now. This karma thing seems to go hand-in-hand with this mind-wiped reincarnation thing. I strongly feel we need to remember. This 'school of hard knocks' idea where we're all here to learn and grow without our past-life memories to influence us -- I don't buy it. Sounds more like a self-perpetuating prison... but, it requires your consent. No consent, no prison.
This 'balancing out' thing you mention is one of the laws of life and it is the most just form of 'justice' in the Cosmos...if those who commit all their 'evil' deeds and thoughts knew just how exact and right this 'justice' was they would think twice before acting.

Karma...or more easily...Sowing and Reaping is a fundamental law of life...no one in existence can bypass it and no one can save us from it...even our god...if we have one...is not immune to it.

You also mention the 1000s of years to get it right...well...most of those 1000s of years and incarnations we actually spent messing it up during our barbaric life stage...which many still live by...there is nothing wrong with this because life is about evolution of consciousness...and you cannot expect a person to know everything when he/she is still so ignorant.

Do you think you are not ignorant? ...well, with all the respect in the world...we are all very ignorant still...it's only our egos who cannot admit to this ignorance...let me offer you something I have learnt in my life...after many years of thinking how great and clever I was...the more you know the more you realise just how little you know.



I have trouble with 'The Law of One' as well because of this 'Ra' character and the apparent connection with the 'archons' ('the Authorities'). Sounds like a 'fourth dimensional' construct. Anything 'hierarchical/authoritarian' waves red flags in my face.

Here's another example of an 'archon': Archangel Michael. It's right there in the name.
I sincerely would suggest that you should gain some knowledge about what exactly an 'archon' is...and not get the impression of it that is been claimed in another thread on this forum.

Archons are no more that our Dark brothers who have gone astray and THEY are the ones who are imprisoned in the lower realms you call 'the afterlife'...NOT US...the average Arthur and Martha of the world. The ;afterlife' you talk so easily about is far from what the reality of the 'afterlife' actually is.



I've heard that this whole solar system was set up as an elaborate prison to hold us here on Earth. That may or may not be true, but it certainly makes me 'think'. :)
Well you see...you have only heard of it...never experienced it...and yet you have formed such a fearful concept of it...just what would it take to change your mind?

Why do you not form a more positive attitude about these beliefs you have when someone tells you something different?...why do you ONLY belief the doom and gloom brigade when they have not even experienced what they claim?

Take care now and much love to yourself
Ray

[Finefeather]

The souls who are not mature enough in life, did not develop enough individuality, are part of the 'hive mind' , now and also 'then after' . It's not a complete loss but it is a 'mess' , and they come back with shared memories and weak sense of individuality again.

I think that the souls who are not mature enough in life, have developed too much individuality...are we not attempting to realise unity and brotherhood?

It is separation which causes conflict...not brotherhood...we should not confuse a lack of individuality with a hive state, when all higher Beings are actually part of a collective mind...and even then I see great work in the bees when they work for the good of the hive.

Love to you
Ray

[Pris]

how you can be so certain that those guys on the other side are benevolent particularly when they've 'orchestrated this universe and the afterlife'. It sounds... manipulative to me.

'As above so below'. If we're manipulated down here, why not 'up there'?
I have been in this 'afterlife' you are referring to...many times...I have done rescue work there for many years...and I can state from personal experience that the manipulation is only a result of our own ignorance and our gullibility to believe people who have never experienced this place...yet they have so much to say about it.

Sure there are forces which can be quite scary to confront but...

When we complete a life there is more than enough assistance for you to safely get through these lower worlds and there is a 99% chance that you will not even know that this 'place' existed. You have to be very 'evil' minded and truly indoctrinated to encounter these forces.

These forces if encountered are NOT some army of evil warriors with all forms of weapons and tactics to capture you and torture you :)...they are simply dark energies which influence the weak minded and those who have been mind manipulated on earth by people who have no idea themselves of what really happens when we cross over after a life...they will be more than pleased, when they discover all the BS that people have inundated them with during their willingness to belief anything. :)

And quess what? These dark forces are nothing more that our brothers and sisters who have fallen into the trap of materialism, jealousy, hatred, power madness and a love for themselves and a desire to only seek self gratification...and to hell with anyone or anything else. (please excuse my tone...I only sound mad...actually I'm so happy...because I know the truth about this) :)



This 'balancing out' thing obviously doesn't work because here we are yet again. If it's true, you'd think after thousands of years and how many lifetimes (supposedly) we'd have it right by now. This karma thing seems to go hand-in-hand with this mind-wiped reincarnation thing. I strongly feel we need to remember. This 'school of hard knocks' idea where we're all here to learn and grow without our past-life memories to influence us -- I don't buy it. Sounds more like a self-perpetuating prison... but, it requires your consent. No consent, no prison.
This 'balancing out' thing you mention is one of the laws of life and it is the most just form of 'justice' in the Cosmos...if those who commit all their 'evil' deeds and thoughts knew just how exact and right this 'justice' was they would think twice before acting.

Karma...or more easily...Sowing and Reaping is a fundamental law of life...no one in existence can bypass it and no one can save us from it...even our god...if we have one...is not immune to it.

You also mention the 1000s of years to get it right...well...most of those 1000s of years and incarnations we actually spent messing it up during our barbaric life stage...which many still live by...there is nothing wrong with this because life is about evolution of consciousness...and you cannot expect a person to know everything when he/she is still so ignorant.

Do you think you are not ignorant? ...well, with all the respect in the world...we are all very ignorant still...it's only our egos who cannot admit to this ignorance...let me offer you something I have learnt in my life...after many years of thinking how great and clever I was...the more you know the more you realise just how little you know.



I have trouble with 'The Law of One' as well because of this 'Ra' character and the apparent connection with the 'archons' ('the Authorities'). Sounds like a 'fourth dimensional' construct. Anything 'hierarchical/authoritarian' waves red flags in my face.

Here's another example of an 'archon': Archangel Michael. It's right there in the name.
I sincerely would suggest that you should gain some knowledge about what exactly an 'archon' is...and not get the impression of it that is been claimed in another thread on this forum.

Archons are no more that our Dark brothers who have gone astray and THEY are the ones who are imprisoned in the lower realms you call 'the afterlife'...NOT US...the average Arthur and Martha of the world. The ;afterlife' you talk so easily about is far from what the reality of the 'afterlife' actually is.



I've heard that this whole solar system was set up as an elaborate prison to hold us here on Earth. That may or may not be true, but it certainly makes me 'think'. :)
Well you see...you have only heard of it...never experienced it...and yet you have formed such a fearful concept of it...just what would it take to change your mind?

Why do you not form a more positive attitude about these beliefs you have when someone tells you something different?...why do you ONLY belief the doom and gloom brigade when they have not even experienced what they claim?

Take care now and much love to yourself
Ray

I truly appreciate your thoughts on this, Ray.


I have been in this 'afterlife' you are referring to...many times...I have done rescue work there for many years...and I can state from personal experience that the manipulation is only a result of our own ignorance and our gullibility to believe people who have never experienced this place...yet they have so much to say about it.

Yes... personal experience. It is still possible you are being manipulated without your knowing it. I don't think there's anything wrong with me having 'so much to say about it'. Maybe it's my lack of 'personal experience' that allows me to remain objective.


This 'balancing out' thing you mention is one of the laws of life and it is the most just form of 'justice' in the Cosmos...

Who says it is a 'law of life'? Any time I hear words like 'law' or 'justice', I get a little more than suspicious.


Do you think you are not ignorant? ...well, with all the respect in the world...we are all very ignorant still...it's only our egos who cannot admit to this ignorance...let me offer you something I have learnt in my life...after many years of thinking how great and clever I was...the more you know the more you realise just how little you know.

I never suggested I am without 'ignorance'. This conversation we're having shows we're both doing what we can to alleviate that. "The more you know the more you realize just how little you know." Since you suggest you know more about this subject than I, perhaps you now know less than I. ;)


I sincerely would suggest that you should gain some knowledge about what exactly an 'archon' is...and not get the impression of it that is been claimed in another thread on this forum.

Archons are no more that our Dark brothers who have gone astray and THEY are the ones who are imprisoned in the lower realms you call 'the afterlife'...NOT US...the average Arthur and Martha of the world. The ;afterlife' you talk so easily about is far from what the reality of the 'afterlife' actually is.

I don't think I'm as far off the mark on this as you seem to suggest, but I do thank you for your concern, and I shall keep my feelers up. :)


Why do you not form a more positive attitude about these beliefs you have when someone tells you something different?...why do you ONLY belief the doom and gloom brigade when they have not even experienced what they claim?

I no longer blindly trust anything I hear that's supposed to have my 'best interests' at heart -- especially that which is 'status quo'. 'Once bitten, twice shy.'

Lol the 'doom and gloom brigade'? ;) I don't see it as 'doom and gloom'. It's more like remaining alert and cautious -- rather that than follow the 'happy-happy joy-joy brigade'. Again, as far as your experience goes -- and I mean this with the deepest respect -- it's like the three blind men in a room with an elephant.

[Pris]

If you're doing it 'right', there is no choice to 'go towards' or 'go away' from the light. YOU are the light, and everything ELSE is illusion.

I'm sorry, I seemed to have spilled some seasoning.

:brushteeth:

That about hits the nail on the head. :biggrin1:

I am the light.

I guess my question is, 'So, now what?' Do I go off and fabricate myself my very own tropical island world so I can lie on a beach and sip fresh mango juice while goldfish shoals nibble at my toes? :becky:

[BF88]

I have been in this 'afterlife' you are referring to...many times...I have done rescue work there for many years...and I can state from personal experience that the manipulation is only a result of our own ignorance and our gullibility to believe people who have never experienced this place...yet they have so much to say about it.


Was it the same every time you have been there? I mean in the sense of looking the same, the same feel to it, the same beings waiting for you to return, if anyone actually was waiting for you? Also if you don't mind what was the nature of your rescue work? I only ask to help with my own understanding of my previous experiences. Thank you.

[Agape]

The souls who are not mature enough in life, did not develop enough individuality, are part of the 'hive mind' , now and also 'then after' . It's not a complete loss but it is a 'mess' , and they come back with shared memories and weak sense of individuality again.

I think that the souls who are not mature enough in life, have developed too much individuality...are we not attempting to realise unity and brotherhood?

It is separation which causes conflict...not brotherhood...we should not confuse a lack of individuality with a hive state, when all higher Beings are actually part of a collective mind...and even then I see great work in the bees when they work for the good of the hive.

Love to you
Ray


Brotherhood, natural love , friendship and compassion we share among all sorts of existences and forms of Life is not the point here , it's natural and essential on the level of existence where we want to abide and call 'home' .

That 'place' ( state of existence ) is neither devoid of sovereignty, individuality or great love among beings . It's a reality place not a lonely heaven where do we come from.

What 'hive mind' and 'collectivism' does to people on earth, in its low forms is mostly mean and lowly , dragging the force down to animal like state , sure it has positive side like all else ..
but great spiritual work is not possible for those who think they can surpass individualisation of their 'ego' and think they can't survive separation from their brothers and sisters , friends and families ,
speaking of human experience .. they evolve together over millions of years, and perish together as well .
Human 'soul' can be pure as any other 'soul' is . As long as ready to stand for your self without twists .


:hug:

[Finefeather]

I have been in this 'afterlife' you are referring to...many times...I have done rescue work there for many years...and I can state from personal experience that the manipulation is only a result of our own ignorance and our gullibility to believe people who have never experienced this place...yet they have so much to say about it.


Was it the same every time you have been there? I mean in the sense of looking the same, the same feel to it, the same beings waiting for you to return, if anyone actually was waiting for you? Also if you don't mind what was the nature of your rescue work? I only ask to help with my own understanding of my previous experiences. Thank you.
The part of the 'astral' world I work in mainly is the lower areas...'astral' is an incorrect term used for the emotional world...but I will use it anyway because most have some idea of what it is...even if it is not quite accurate.

In these lower levels are many types of entities...there are many humans there in various degrees or states of being.

Some are moving from a life to the place which they are attuned to in a higher 'astral' world...

Some are on their way down, from their world, whatever it may be, to link up with a new body for a new incarnation...or even to take over a body which someone has agreed to.

Some are very powerful and have formed organised 'gangs' very similar to the mafia...they are unable to incarnate because they have given up, or lost their causal, or incarnating 'bodies', because of their 'evil ways', which was their own choice...the only think left for them to do is to try their best to influence people, and possess bodies on the earth plain...this way they can continue their mindset. These are the real prisoners in this planet. There are those who are extremely advanced dark magicians and run the 'gangs'...these are what is known as 'Archons' they are the rulers of the dark 'astral' worlds...they are not very effective if one has advanced beyond a certain level of consciousness and you have been trained to deal with their advances.

Some are in a state which I can only describe as confused, lost and or in a high degree of panic and fear...these are the ones I am able to assist.
The reason I can assist them is because higher beings cannot easily access these lower worlds from higher worlds, and I have been trained to access these worlds for the sole purpose of 'rescuing' those stuck in these worlds for various reasons.
For example, I helped some Libyan children back to their world when their homes were bombed flat during the Libyan war. They were huddled in a room, all 'dead' but separated from their bodies and totally confused.

Each time I leave my body for a rescue I climb out my body then move from my room through the wall and then I am guided to the place where I need to attempt to assist. The world I rescue from mainly is an exact replica of the physical world, because it is the physical world in a slightly different dimension or state...normally the first place we are aware of after death...but when I move to higher worlds these are often very different, very beautiful and are like cities and towns with many people on the same level living there...I return to my room when completed and climb back into my body.

I cannot say much more because there is just too much to say, but you can read some of this in the 'Astral Projection' group on this forum.

Take care
Ray

[Finefeather]

Brotherhood, natural love , friendship and compassion we share among all sorts of existences and forms of Life is not the point here , it's natural and essential on the level of existence where we want to abide and call 'home' .

That 'place' ( state of existence ) is neither devoid of sovereignty, individuality or great love among beings . It's a reality place not a lonely heaven where do we come from.

What 'hive mind' and 'collectivism' does to people on earth, in its low forms is mostly mean and lowly , dragging the force down to animal like state , sure it has positive side like all else ..
but great spiritual work is not possible for those who think they can surpass individualisation of their 'ego' and think they can't survive separation from their brothers and sisters , friends and families ,
speaking of human experience .. they evolve together over millions of years, and perish together as well .
Human 'soul' can be pure as any other 'soul' is . As long as ready to stand for your self without twists .


:hug:
I understand what you are saying and agree with you from the perspective you are coming from.

What you are saying relates to going out and becoming wise to the world...stand up on your own 2 feet and drag no one down because of your own doing...this even happens in the animal world when the mother bird kicks the baby bird out the nest and says "off you go now and look after yourself"..."don't forget to send me a post card now and again" :)

Sovereignty is certainly a thing to strive for and attain...but sovereignty, from an esoteric view, does not imply single mindedness...it assumes a state of wisdom...and wisdom knows that in the bigger scheme the individual is of no concern because we are a unity in life...not a separation.

Much Love to you...golden girl :kiss:
Ray

[BF88]

The reason I can assist them is because higher beings cannot easily access these lower worlds from higher worlds
Thank you for your reply.

Is the reason they can not come here due to the heaviness/density/compactness (I can't think of the right word)of this world? Would you agree with me if i suggested the reason for this is the time it takes or difficulty and effort it takes to adjust to the 'climate' or dense/heavy/solid nature? I have fragmented memories of being in these between world places you describe although as a passer through i suppose you could call it.

It is amazing you can do these things out of body, although i can imagine a degree of satisfaction being able to help other beings in this way i imagine seeing terrible things such as what you have described to be quite traumatic.

[Agape]

Sovereignty is certainly a thing to strive for and attain...but sovereignty, from an esoteric view, does not imply single mindedness...it assumes a state of wisdom...and wisdom knows that in the bigger scheme the individual is of no concern because we are a unity in life...not a separation.


More wisdom I'm trying to have in this world .. and with this human world especially , more I feel I'm losing it ..
single mindedness is probably 'not right the state of wisdom' with most people but in my own mind/ life /experience , it usually was tended to be that way ..

it's been the 'innate wisdom ' or spiritual intelligence I used to rely on rather than any acquired one and though I tried to 'switch' to someones elses dominant wisdoms times to times it seldom payed off well .. in life terms .

Guess I experience myself more as a 'wholeness navigator' when it comes to this world rather than 'wise elder' as expected ..
it's a strange world ..

Thanks Ray . Wish I understand more of what's going on in 'my world' right now but it won't happen unless I'm one leg trapped in someones elses ..

Love to you


:angel:

[Finefeather]

Is the reason they can not come here due to the heaviness/density/compactness (I can't think of the right word)of this world? Would you agree with me if i suggested the reason for this is the time it takes or difficulty and effort it takes to adjust to the 'climate' or dense/heavy/solid nature? I have fragmented memories of being in these between world places you describe although as a passer through i suppose you could call it.

It is amazing you can do these things out of body, although i can imagine a degree of satisfaction being able to help other beings in this way i imagine seeing terrible things such as what you have described to be quite traumatic.
Please note that some subjects are just too difficult for me to explain in language and so I need to point out that it is often a struggle to get the correct idea accross...but i'll do my best. Also there are many many different scenarios to this subject and I am attempting to give a very generalised picture of it.

We...as a true Self...and no there is no such thing as us having a higher self...there is just the one Self, even though we cannot quite get our minds around how this works yet...actually have 5 different 'bodies' which we inhabit during incarnation...we have the physical organism, the etheric energy envelope, the emotional envelope, the mental envelope and the causal envelope, all at the same time. They are all in the same space and time as we think of it. The problem is that most people cannot see these 'bodies' and so we are generally unaware of them.

In the physical world we only have senses which can detect a certain frequency and beyond that we are 'blind'...you must have noticed in your life when you gaze at a cloud and it seems to disappear as it evaporated into thin air...well it does not disappear it has just changed into a frequency which we are unable to visually sense.

Science already is starting to catch up because they now know that what they originally thought was the smallest bit of matter...the atom...is in fact not so and they have now discovered that even the electrons and protons are not solid...this goes on for a lot longer though, and science will not find the end to it...or the god particle...because no physical instrument will ever be capable of detecting the minuteness of the primordial atom.

So the thing is to try to imagine what these bodies/envelopes do to our consciousness by the time we reach the physical brain consciousness. Each of these envelopes (envelopes are the bodies as seen in the aura and extent outward from the physical body) modifies and colours the waking consciousness and, to an extent...which is determined by a number of things...attenuates or blocks our true memories and consciousness, and although this sounds like a bad thing, it is not necessarily so.

When we...the true Self...step out of our physical bodies we are active in the next higher 'body', which is the emotional body...the etheric body never disconnects except at death, because it keeps the physical body alive and connected to our true Self.

The true Self is now operating in the emotional body and so attenuation is less severe and other senses are present to sense this world...we do not have the 5 physical body senses now...We can also now step out of the emotional body and become active in the mental body and again attenuation of consciousness is less and other senses come into play.

This is how we move around from a dense world to a less dense higher world...I guess you could say that we evaporate into higher worlds...and you won't be far from the truth :) In the last word it is a light display...where we focus and un-focus our awareness and thus consciousness...we are Beings of light...never forget that.

So after that rather inadequate little jabber, to answer your question, the reason higher Beings cannot reach these lower worlds is simply because they do not have these bodies/envelopes in which to operate in lower worlds. There are other ways which even higher Beings reach the physical world but it's too involved to go into here.

Time does not come into the equation because time is always constant for each world and it is just a matter of choosing the right moment.

You should not get the impression that I am some lone ranger on a claimed ego trip to gain some points out of what appears to be a good deed. Sure I am more than willing to assist where I can...I did volunteer...and there are thousands of us doing this work...and you or anyone on this forum could very well be doing the same thing...even if you or they might be totally unaware of it...so I am not even close to being unique or even special...far from it...I am just a Being like everyone else in this planet...and Cosmos.

Take care
Ray

[Sebastion]

Ray, I concur pretty much 100% with your post and it is very well written. I especially liked your use of the word "evaporate", that's a cool way of stating it!

I just wanted to add to where you left off that in my experiences in the great beyond, and above the material worlds, one evaporates (lol), experiences the Soul-Light body which is beyond the meaning of brilliant and quite exquisite. There aren't any words in any language to describe it adequately. One has to experience it to know. When one learns to give up any attachments to it then one is free to travel, as it were to even higher frequencies, regions, of Light. Beyond that one experiences god realization, meaning there is no "I" for one becomes all things and no thing simultaneously. There are no thoughts of "I" because it has no meaning whatsoever.

Beyond that is the Great Heart of the One, Itself. It is here that words seriously start falling apart as any words used are but a dim shadow of what IS, as it can only be experienced and never adequately described. Suffice it to say that it is Love Absolute, so deep, so profound that it cannot even be approached in understanding by human imagination. The Heart Of One is wholly complete and completely whole within Itself. Even the terms I am using here are inadequate by a long shot, but at least you start to get the "idea". That is the ultimate experience and was the culmination of my spiritual journey.

Again Ray, excellent post...







Is the reason they can not come here due to the heaviness/density/compactness (I can't think of the right word)of this world? Would you agree with me if i suggested the reason for this is the time it takes or difficulty and effort it takes to adjust to the 'climate' or dense/heavy/solid nature? I have fragmented memories of being in these between world places you describe although as a passer through i suppose you could call it.

It is amazing you can do these things out of body, although i can imagine a degree of satisfaction being able to help other beings in this way i imagine seeing terrible things such as what you have described to be quite traumatic.
Please note that some subjects are just too difficult for me to explain in language and so I need to point out that it is often a struggle to get the correct idea accross...but i'll do my best. Also there are many many different scenarios to this subject and I am attempting to give a very generalised picture of it.

We...as a true Self...and no there is no such thing as us having a higher self...there is just the one Self, even though we cannot quite get our minds around how this works yet...actually have 5 different 'bodies' which we inhabit during incarnation...we have the physical organism, the etheric energy envelope, the emotional envelope, the mental envelope and the causal envelope, all at the same time. They are all in the same space and time as we think of it. The problem is that most people cannot see these 'bodies' and so we are generally unaware of them.

In the physical world we only have senses which can detect a certain frequency and beyond that we are 'blind'...you must have noticed in your life when you gaze at a cloud and it seems to disappear as it evaporated into thin air...well it does not disappear it has just changed into a frequency which we are unable to visually sense.

Science already is starting to catch up because they now know that what they originally thought was the smallest bit of matter...the atom...is in fact not so and they have now discovered that even the electrons and protons are not solid...this goes on for a lot longer though, and science will not find the end to it...or the god particle...because no physical instrument will ever be capable of detecting the minuteness of the primordial atom.

So the thing is to try to imagine what these bodies/envelopes do to our consciousness by the time we reach the physical brain consciousness. Each of these envelopes (envelopes are the bodies as seen in the aura and extent outward from the physical body) modifies and colours the waking consciousness and, to an extent...which is determined by a number of things...attenuates or blocks our true memories and consciousness, and although this sounds like a bad thing, it is not necessarily so.

When we...the true Self...step out of our physical bodies we are active in the next higher 'body', which is the emotional body...the etheric body never disconnects except at death, because it keeps the physical body alive and connected to our true Self.

The true Self is now operating in the emotional body and so attenuation is less severe and other senses are present to sense this world...we do not have the 5 physical body senses now...We can also now step out of the emotional body and become active in the mental body and again attenuation of consciousness is less and other senses come into play.

This is how we move around from a dense world to a less dense higher world...I guess you could say that we evaporate into higher worlds...and you won't be far from the truth :) In the last word it is a light display...where we focus and un-focus our awareness and thus consciousness...we are Beings of light...never forget that.

So after that rather inadequate little jabber, to answer your question, the reason higher Beings cannot reach these lower worlds is simply because they do not have these bodies/envelopes in which to operate in lower worlds. There are other ways which even higher Beings reach the physical world but it's too involved to go into here.

Time does not come into the equation because time is always constant for each world and it is just a matter of choosing the right moment.

You should not get the impression that I am some lone ranger on a claimed ego trip to gain some points out of what appears to be a good deed. Sure I am more than willing to assist where I can...I did volunteer...and there are thousands of us doing this work...and you or anyone on this forum could very well be doing the same thing...even if you or they might be totally unaware of it...so I am not even close to being unique or even special...far from it...I am just a Being like everyone else in this planet...and Cosmos.

Take care
Ray

[donk]

So it seems that this is now part of the “alternative media” menu now, and gets a mention in nearly every topic—as it can be related to almost everything, especially in the “conspiracy” realm…all roads lead here.

It occurs to me that I was thinking about it a little superficially. It is not just the fear of death, the destruction of our physical vehicle, at the heart of this idea—it is actually a level deeper.

Now, for those who have dealt with and transcended that fear of death, processed it into the helpful survival instinct it should be, while living a fulfilling life NOT allowing thoughts and decisions to be driven by that primal part of our being—we have this newer, more sophisticated fear in our awareness: the manipulation of the very energy of what we truly are.

A good friend, who I deeply trust, told me that HE KNOWS, beyond doubt, that we choose our incarnation. I want to get on board with this idea, and I asked how much choice do we have as to how our life goes.

He relates: “The further we advance, the closer we get to the process, the more we may influence it from ‘down here’, so to speak. The most unawakened is let by the highest self, the fully realized interacts with what’s just across the veil.”

That makes sense to me. And this thought is the polar antithesis to the op, which has to my perception seems to be a seed that quickly sprouted, the idea of more aware beings trapping our consciousness and using it for….whatever it is they do that for—I believe the prevailing theme is use it in some selfish way not necessarily for our growth and benefit.

Like most things, I believe there may be truth somewhere in there, but most likely both ideas are incomplete. The thing that both hint at though, is that it may be possible to acquire knowledge about this between life stage (both of these ideas assume reincarnation, right?)

Which begs the question: how do we obtain usable information regarding what happens to whatever it is that we are when we leave this physical incarnation? Is it important (to us personally, to the universe as a whole?) to have a degree of control or conscious awareness of what happens? Why?

And of course—what keeps me coming back to alternative forums: what is the intent of those transmitting these ideas into the collective consciousness?

I believe my friend is well-intended, and feels that sharing his knowing of what will happen sets others at ease taking away some of the fear of death itself…by creating a reality where you are in control of what happens.

I believe those who are well-intended that transmit what they “know” of the white light is a trap believe not allowing others to manipulate our being has a purpose that they either believe it will be “better” for an individual’s well-bing/growth/soul journey/whatever or perhaps an even a greater-than-individual purpose.

To look at these from an service-to-self level, you could say my friend is being lulled to a false sense of security, and the other is creating unnecessary fear.

This is where I am right now, how I see this “reality”. Does anyone else notice it as a “phenomenon”, sort of an event that these ideas were rolled out into our awareness? Is it a different manifestation of something that has been around? Or a complete distraction from our actual shared reality?

[TrumanCash]

I have seen this thread keep popping up from time to time, which I think is an indication that it is important to people as well as being mysterious.

What I discovered is that the reality behind it is knowable, subjectively, but not yet knowable for the general public, so to speak. I covered this subject in a recent interview for the Project Avalon Forum.

This subject is very touchy for some because it necessarily touches on the subject of religion. After all, people often report seeing dead relatives in NDEs or receiving divine knowledge and so forth. If taken literally it would indicate the existence of "heaven", an after life where one can still have one's body that one had in the earthly life and continue living forever without aging or death.

But what if it's an illusion? What if it's an intended deception? It appears on its face that there are sentient beings behind this phenomenon who are apparently creating and perpetuating it. Why aren't they being up front about it and telling us what it's all about? Why all the secrecy? Is that a red flag we should pay attention to?

What I and many other people have discovered for ourselves is that this is one of the biggest secrets.

What I discovered is that one can discover for himself or herself what this is all about. To do so one must conduct extensive past life therapy and research. In doing so, the in-between lives incidents will start to show up.

In short, the going-to-the-light phenomenon is accomplished with technology. The "light beings" that people see in NDEs are actually Mantis ETs who use an ability which can best be described as telepathic hypnosis. The Mantis ETs work in a coordinated conspiracy to establish dead end religions on this planet as well as secret societies to keep us in a state of confusion and chaos, which equates to spiritual darkness. Fortunately, things are indeed changing and we appear to be gradually evolving out of that paradigm.

I have also commented on this phenomenon here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68916-Don-t-go-into-the-light-Discussion-thread&p=803421#post803421).

[Ultima Thule]

After a lengthy time going through this thread, I now venture out to take part in it.

What has been said so far:

1. Light is a trap
2. Light is not a trap

Light might or might not therefore be a trap. No definite conclusions so far.

What is lacking (to me anyway) is:
1. Does light appear in every case?
2. If there is no light, then what?
3. How can it be said that the most real experience of many near death experiencers is to be discounted? (which is not at all aimed at discrediting Simon, I have immense respect for him)

My exhibit A:
In my own NDE - brief, but significant for me -
- there was no light, instead utter darkness. All encompassing love was there and a realization of going to a home forgotten, original, real home that has no equal. Can anyone comment on their opinion how to interpret that?
• Was my experience only too brief and I didn´t get to the part to see the light?
• Was my experience different and there was no light?
• Was my experience a real experience (which is what I very much felt) of the source or a trap?
- There was a distinct 90 degree turn before starting of in accelerating speed towards what I considered the source. Those familiar with Drunvalo Melchizedeks work might comment on that and perhaps other NDEs might also comment on that?
- regarding Greybeards etc. comments about enlightenment - all questions and ponderings about which thing or view or action was right were meaningless, there was no more duality between fear and love, only understanding how things "down there" are viewed from a different perspective than from "up here" and that is very important. Things are in any case just the way they are supposed to be, even though everything is changing all the time. Universe organizes itself every moment again and again to perfection.
- only reason to come back was because my family would´t from their perspective see things as I did from up there

Three possible options for reincarnation with memory loss taking place:
- the normal version, learning, growth, no point in knowing the rules, thus positive action without "knowing", more "valuable"
- trap-version, just bouncing souls back into a meaningless game
- furthermore, as a third version or appendix to the normal version I would say that the place/condition one experiences in NDE is of such magnitude of unconditional love and of a true home, so great that remembering that all the time actively when living a corporeal life, I´d say there would be no motivation whatsoever to stay in a corporeal body - why not just pull the plug and jettison oneself to home? After my NDE I view the forgetting an integral part in creating the wan´t to live and manage a corporeal, challenging, at times uncomfortable life.

Opinions?

UT

[WhiteLove]

I have not had a NDE experience myself, but my instinct about speculating in what choices to make beyond this realm is to here and now in this realm protect one's soul from the dangers and fears that the false/confusion of this kind of information might potentially bring, above all letting unconditional love be your truth anchor in your soul journey, I believe it is the key to everything! I have been taken to a different realm, that was not something I consciously had or felt I needed to have control over, it happened because it was done by a power/force above/beyond my/the human level that wanted me to gain great comfort and truth, I loved it, it was an overwhelming knowingness of truth, it felt utterly safe and it was beyond my wildest dreams to the point I did not want to go back. Having had that experience is something I am deeply humble and thankful about. Appreciation, gratitude and the safety of the good that is brought to your life here and now, is a card worth playing in the game of truth seeking, it brings clearity in a simple way. Take care everyone!

[seeker/reader]

What I discovered is that the reality behind it is knowable, subjectively, but not yet knowable for the general public, so to speak. I covered this subject in a recent interview for the Project Avalon Forum.

Truman,

Has your interview been published? Where is it located? Would you provide a link please?

Thank you,

Seeker/Reader

[greybeard]

After a lengthy time going through this thread, I now venture out to take part in it.

What has been said so far:

1. Light is a trap
2. Light is not a trap

Light might or might not therefore be a trap. No definite conclusions so far.

What is lacking (to me anyway) is:
1. Does light appear in every case?
2. If there is no light, then what?
3. How can it be said that the most real experience of many near death experiencers is to be discounted? (which is not at all aimed at discrediting Simon, I have immense respect for him)

My exhibit A:
In my own NDE - brief, but significant for me -
- there was no light, instead utter darkness. All encompassing love was there and a realization of going to a home forgotten, original, real home that has no equal. Can anyone comment on their opinion how to interpret that?
• Was my experience only too brief and I didn´t get to the part to see the light?
• Was my experience different and there was no light?
• Was my experience a real experience (which is what I very much felt) of the source or a trap?
- There was a distinct 90 degree turn before starting of in accelerating speed towards what I considered the source. Those familiar with Drunvalo Melchizedeks work might comment on that and perhaps other NDEs might also comment on that?
- regarding Greybeards etc. comments about enlightenment - all questions and ponderings about which thing or view or action was right were meaningless, there was no more duality between fear and love, only understanding how things "down there" are viewed from a different perspective than from "up here" and that is very important. Things are in any case just the way they are supposed to be, even though everything is changing all the time. Universe organizes itself every moment again and again to perfection.
- only reason to come back was because my family would´t from their perspective see things as I did from up there

Three possible options for reincarnation with memory loss taking place:
- the normal version, learning, growth, no point in knowing the rules, thus positive action without "knowing", more "valuable"
- trap-version, just bouncing souls back into a meaningless game
- furthermore, as a third version or appendix to the normal version I would say that the place/condition one experiences in NDE is of such magnitude of unconditional love and of a true home, so great that remembering that all the time actively when living a corporeal life, I´d say there would be no motivation whatsoever to stay in a corporeal body - why not just pull the plug and jettison oneself to home? After my NDE I view the forgetting an integral part in creating the wan´t to live and manage a corporeal, challenging, at times uncomfortable life.

Opinions?

UT

This might be helpful Ultima Thule

Similar to part of your experience.

c
Bart Marshall ‘Only This Emptiness’ - Interview by Iain McNay
In the Vietnam War a mortar landed nearby that blew Bart into a clear and brilliant blackness that, “Felt like home. I would have gladly stayed in that blackness, but instead I was brought back into a world I could no longer view in the same way.”
When he returned in 1968 he experimented with LSD, read everything he could find that might offer clues to what had happened to him, studied meditation and attended workshops. After 20 years he hit a wall as a seeker and then met the teacher Richard Rose whom he studied with for 5 years. It was after a weekend with Douglas Harding that a breakthrough finally happened… “Being the source of everything that is nothing - everything and nothing, only this emptiness.”


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCirEL0bchw

[TrumanCash]

What I discovered is that the reality behind it is knowable, subjectively, but not yet knowable for the general public, so to speak. I covered this subject in a recent interview for the Project Avalon Forum.

Truman,

Has your interview been published? Where is it located? Would you provide a link please?

Thank you,

Seeker/Reader

As far as I know they are still editing it and putting it together. The sound quality was a problem so I'm not sure how much they have to edit out, etc. Since the subject matter concerns ETs I would assume that they will post it in this section when finished.

TLC

[danegeroussacredgeometry]

For the last three hours I have attempted to describe what ‘Source’ means to me; a valid question that Fine Feather brought up yesterday. It is quite likely we are all using the same word yet meaning something totally different. I am personally finding language to be so limiting when attempting to define higher aspects of Consciousness.

Nancy you did a fine job in your description – thank you. This is not an easy exercise to define as I have just found out myself using the medium of ‘words’. I too noticed Fine Feather deleted his valid question shortly after writing it, I do not know his reasons as to why, yet do think it is a great question to ask oneself and purposeful for each of us to define within ourselves our own meaning. I too would very much appreciate Fine Feather’s definitions of ‘Source’; that is if he is willing to do so. If he does, I hope he can find better words than my limited vocabulary.

For myself, I usually experience what I call ‘Source’ either in out of body experiences or Kundalini rising practices. Unfortunately I do not see sign posts stating where exactly I am, so for myself I observe the distinct levels of conscious awareness ‘changes’ within myself , there is quite a difference from one Plane to the next Plane; (also each Plane has many dimensions within it). It has taken me many decades to piece together some of what I write below.

I thought it may be helpful for my own defining (and perhaps for others too) if I start several Conscious Planes ‘below’ what I deem as ‘Source’. And quite possibly what I am ‘accepting as Source’ in this particular Triad maybe just the very start of something potentially far bigger that I have yet to contemplate, experience and realise – as I remind myself this is a journey into Eternity. So please take what I write below as just being my own subjective truth of what I have had glimpses/moments of experiencing. Also I am describing in the briefest of terms the Planes; they are so much more than this where one could spend tens of thousands of years joyfully exploring!

In out of body ‘travel’ or ‘arriving’ I can experience this as ‘going somewhere’ but really I am going ‘within self’ into my inner nucleus – so although I can experience movement or force while travelling that feels very real - in truth there really is no movement, rather raising frequencies shifting my observer conscious awareness into deeper levels of Self. (I can see already my sentences are going to seem full of contradictions and paradoxes as I attempt to describe existences of Self in Planes so very different to 3D Time/Space – lol)


***

Journeying towards Source
Skipping past the ‘polarity planes’ of Hertzian, Inferred, Visible Light - then through a void space, I enter what I call Bridge Consciousness that is Neutral in nature and the Ultraviolet blue Plane - reengaging with the Soul and is the Plane of Unconditional Love. When I am BEing the centrral observer of Soul, I see multitudes of rays of simultaneous incarnations around me (past, present, future), it’s like being the centre of a star with all its rays. It is here I re-remember all my "I's" that I have been (incarnations).

Shifting into another void space, I arrive at Super Consciousness (X-Ray) Soul & Spirit Plane often called Paradise; wondrous music plays, golden light, life forms and colours etc are breathtaking! This is where I experience an ‘us-ness or we-ness’ conscious awareness, now becoming less ‘form’ (no longer attached to any body identity form yet can unfold into a form whenever I choose) I prefer to be an orb of consciousness. Here I am re-remembering and beholding ‘us-ness/we-ness’ consciousness, and all the vast creations we participate in giving unconditional love. I am this expanding conscious awareness yet I am not ‘gigantic in size like a universe’ (oh god another paradox) I am really very, very tiny like a subatomic particle (or something like that) that is interconnected.

Shifting within again, into the Planes of Hyper Consciousness and also into Ultra Consciousness (Gamma and beyond) this is the Spirit Planes of Knowingness and Pure Thought Light. This re-awakens a deeper depth of Unity Oneness Consciousness of ALL LIFE in this Triad of Creation - yet within this oneness I keep my uniqueness at the same time (I know another paradox; next paragraph brings some sense to this). The all embracing love, celebration and joy and creational conscious awareness in these two Planes are beyond Earthly description. At some point during my ‘observer shifting’ I can see below the shimmering golden/rose energy grids of Creation (part of the Source Field) where all those wondrous adventurous explorations of zillions of co-creator gods are exploring and creating in the multitudes of playgrounds. Up to this point and Planes just described, I am still the ‘journeyman’ a secondary conscious god spark mirror aspect of - my ‘wholeness/totality’ that is ‘Primary Consciousness’ the Self that eternally exists in Source and never left home. I am still in this Plane the journeyman/secondary consciousness traversing a soulful journey exploring this particular Triad of Creation of involution and now evolution.

Arriving to Source
Shifting within again my journeyman of secondary consciousness now wraps up all its realities as it lovingly brings all its unique wisdoms returning and ‘BEcoming at one’ again with ‘my’ Primary Consciousness; I could call this ‘My Great Spirit’ or ‘my god’, or ‘my source’. My own journeyman of experiences turned to wisdoms is what makes this unity of Self/co-creator god ‘unique’, (and everyone elses too due their unique journeys). My Primary Consciousness/god source is now deeper enriched and wiser via my journeyman’s exponential journey of redefining the wonders of all SELF can be in this Triad of Creation. (It is either this particular level with this reunion of 1st & 2nd consciousness becoming ONE, or the one next stage when one reaches Christos – not quite sure which it is, but suspect it is this particular level).

Shift within again and ‘my’ Primary Consciousness returns, merges with Prime Creator (God/Goddess/Source/Isness, whatever one wishes to term it) that is the totality of unconditional LOVE and Conscious life force Creation that IS in Everything, an Isness ongoingness into Forever.

(Now I am unsure if Prime Creator of this Triad of creation ‘is’ or instead ‘exists within and part of’ the next part)

There is a Great beautiful dazzling alive black Void, like a great sea teaming with alive consciousness that contains all colours and light within this black void (paradox again), with full Knowingness, omnipresence, omniscient of all potentials yet no things materially – the ideas of Everything yet a Non-Thing all at the same time. I am not even sure what I am at this stage other than consciousness, perhaps a ‘consciously aware wave’? I ride in a seamless sea of wondrously expanding ALL knowingness – I have zero questions, queries, desires etc All is Known in this alive Isness oceans of Unity creative omnipresent Conscious Knowingness. Apologises this really is a Pitiful explanation; I just cannot find the words to even skim the surface of such all knowing wondrousness.

One thing I have observed is the moment I contemplate a knowingness that washes through me, the ‘act’ of contemplating takes me immediately to BEing my Primary Consciousness (no longer Prime Creator or the Great Void). When I am the Great Void the knowingness washes through me in waves, there is no contemplation because all is Known. Smile.


***

Well that’s my glimpses of many experiences exploring higher Planes of Consciousness – so far.... and maybe just the tip of the iceberg. When the time arrives when I realise and accept fully my Isness reuniting and merging with my own Primary Consciousness/God/Source....... my next step maybe to dive into the Prime Creator (God/Source) and explore what other great wonders there are to behold in the vastness of Eternity - smile. Until then...........

I have much work to do unravelling and remembering and reconnecting to the grand mysteries I call SELF and my Source. I will keep plodding onwards and upwards within myself cleaning up all my unfinished Earthly business and the other Planes of polarity unfinished business, owning the parts I have played and turning that purposefulness into evolving wisdom and greater conscious awareness, loving myself into life (wherever that may be) while reengaging in all that I BE.

So to return to the original question defining what is ‘Source’ in my personal meaning, it includes that which is Eternal, my primary consciousness; Prime Creator and the Great Void. And I so bless my secondary consciousness journeyman because it does all the leg work.

Much love to you all
Realeyes :hug:X
Namaste

Ps. The above has been a lifetime of inner work this end - I am fed up with forgetting this over and over every time I reincarnate, so doing all I can this end to keep my memories and knowledge I have learned so I can continue to build upon them and finally at some point 'arrive' to my Source with the job done. Then leap into the next..............!

:wizard::wizard::wizard:

Wow... beautifully put :)

[seah]

I have seen this thread keep popping up from time to time, which I think is an indication that it is important to people as well as being mysterious.

What I discovered is that the reality behind it is knowable, subjectively, but not yet knowable for the general public, so to speak. I covered this subject in a recent interview for the Project Avalon Forum.

This subject is very touchy for some because it necessarily touches on the subject of religion. After all, people often report seeing dead relatives in NDEs or receiving divine knowledge and so forth. If taken literally it would indicate the existence of "heaven", an after life where one can still have one's body that one had in the earthly life and continue living forever without aging or death.

But what if it's an illusion? What if it's an intended deception? It appears on its face that there are sentient beings behind this phenomenon who are apparently creating and perpetuating it. Why aren't they being up front about it and telling us what it's all about? Why all the secrecy? Is that a red flag we should pay attention to?

What I and many other people have discovered for ourselves is that this is one of the biggest secrets.

What I discovered is that one can discover for himself or herself what this is all about. To do so one must conduct extensive past life therapy and research. In doing so, the in-between lives incidents will start to show up.

In short, the going-to-the-light phenomenon is accomplished with technology. The "light beings" that people see in NDEs are actually Mantis ETs who use an ability which can best be described as telepathic hypnosis. The Mantis ETs work in a coordinated conspiracy to establish dead end religions on this planet as well as secret societies to keep us in a state of confusion and chaos, which equates to spiritual darkness. Fortunately, things are indeed changing and we appear to be gradually evolving out of that paradigm.

I have also commented on this phenomenon here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68916-Don-t-go-into-the-light-Discussion-thread&p=803421#post803421).

That is indeed my take on it as well. It's interesting how the disinformation continues to make the rounds though, but my sense is that it's not being accepted so easily any more by the masses, even though those passing it around attempt to diminish those of us standing up to their bs.
In reality many people are having astral experiences even if they are not conscious of doing so and while there, on some of the higher levels there are beings who are advising us of what the truth of the light and your family members after death is all about. On some level we remember.

[onawah]

Interesting that Simon identified those "human-looking bearded "gods"/ETs who have established Earth's god-worshipping religions and secret societies" which we have been calling the Annunaki or the Velon, as being one and the same "Reptilians" or "Draconians" who have reportedly been running the show for a long time from behind the scenes.
Though as far as I am aware, direct questions about that have been unanswered, and in fact, Simon's depiction of his "Dad" (who he names "Anu" which as we all know, is the Annunaki King) characterizes those beings as being quite reptilian in appearance with scales, vestigal wings, etc.
While the Annunaki renditions I have seen have always been drawn as quite humanoid in appearance.
Are the Draconians such skillful shape shifters, or do they genetically fashion humanoid bodies for themselves to incarnate into?
Was this ever answered?
For a long time in conspiracy circles, it seemed to be unclear if these were two separate groups or one.
The other question that has been left incompletely answered is: what is the role of the Mantids in that alien agenda?

This has been discussed on similar threads, but for those who are not aware of my experiences with this phenomenon, I will comment again here.


Not everyone "goes to the light" at body death. I have recovered several in-between life experiences vis-a-vis this planet of going toward the light at the end of tunnel.

This is, from our perspective as Earthbound humans, some incredibly high technology. What is at the end of the tunnel is nothing more than an implantation mothership. My take on the tunnel is that it is a kind of vortex or wormhole. Not being a physicist I cannot accurately describe the technology.

Simon Parkes uses the word "processing" instead of implant. He said that they are automated but also manned by Grays. However, in my experiences with these implanting stations it is the Mantids who are running the show. They disguise themselves as glowing beings. It is a deception. They implant false realities via what can best be described as telepathic hypnosis, e.g., dead relatives, etc, etc.

From my own past life memories I discovered that I was trying to stop the abductions on planet Earth over 15 thousand years ago. The Mantids apparently didn't like my interfering with their operations so they captured me nearly 12,400 years ago, implanted me in a body and set me back on Earth. Since then they have been following me lifetime to lifetime and making sure I report in to the implant station whenever I "die" in order to keep me from being a problem to their operations.

Simon has also confirmed that the Mantids not only orchestrate abductions but they also have the technology to implant a spiritual being into a body and even transfer a being from one body to another.

I am no longer at war with them as war and fighting is not a permanent, viable solution to the problem. It appears that they are implanted to be implanters and they are really stuck in that.

Mantids are in cahoots with the Grays and the human-looking bearded "gods"/ETs who have established Earth's god-worshipping religions and secret societies. In other words the Mantis beings are very instrumental in creating and maintaining war and chaos on this planet as well as operating and maintaining the artificial "reincarnation" system on this planet.

I have detailed my experiences vis-a-vis this subject in THE EYE OF RA, which anyone can download free of charge from the Avalon Project website (links below).

TLC

See also: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?88999-Our-experience-with-Simon-Parkes&p=1054322&viewfull=1#post1054322

[itsme]

I didn't read all the thread and wanted to underline this simple fact.
The light after death is a higher source of energy which can indeed transformed a human being living this experience. I don't have any doubt about it. Maybe people living a NDE moment need a boost from an external source to transform their being and change the way they were before. Those who came back and choose to continue the game down here aren't the same anymore . Beside them, those who really passed away will not necessary succeed the test of the Bardo .
Some will others won't.
Why? All depends of the spiritual work achieved during our incarnation.

Probably why many say that the light after death is a trap.

Compare it to the energy of the kundalini rising . In that kind of experience, the energy comes from within and finishes with an exploision of light and an impression of illumination felt in the brain.

This energy comes from within and open all the universal doors.

Probably why many teachers have said focus on your inner light.

Do it through meditation or otherwise but don't wait after death to achieve the Great work.

I understand people who are so suspicious. They have hidden the truth concerning our inner kundalini power and fought us in lowering the frequencies through lust .So they kept many trapped in the reincarnation wheel.

The light after death is a tremendous source of energy but it isn't sufficient.

Ai-Archons fear humans for this simple reason.

We are powerful beings and repression assure them to rule over us.

The human liberation can be attain through a disciplined spiritual practice not through lust . Even if the feeling of illumination is comparable to an orgasm , the genitals are secondary.

Don't condemn sex but addiction to lust.

[itsme]

I wonder if people who died at stake, guillotined or hanged hid the desire of the Archons to trap the most enlightened one through a traumatic death.
These traumatic deaths undoubtedly create blockages for the future reincarnations of the victim and also in the after life.

If our state of mind just before death influences our success to the after life test, AI will do whatever they can to prevent our passage and keep us trap in the wheel of reincarnation.

These Executions have an impact on our liberation but the victim must also bear these scars on the etheric body.

The main mission of the archons is to imprison us here and all means are good to achieve their goal.

In invalidating the message of the elders and in transforming the truth concerning their real incaranation and message , they created a false reality.

I think they went too far to rule over us and have destroyed human life. Are Bots the future beings on earth?

Those who intervened to transform these sacred truths have a huge universal karma to face.

I feel that I had to face the sadistics ways of AI more than once.

Even all the scrap they have put us through, inner peace is the way

[itsme]

http://image.wikifoundry.com/image/2/DsPy9Jr17vxfZgmxm268yQ48339/GW240H341


The white light that appears is associated with the realm of the gods...

Within a western frame of understanding it is often associated with the practice of contemplative or religious practices that might induce an altered state of consciousness, either brought about spontaneously, through a type of yoga, through psychedelic drugs, or through a near-death experience.

Kundalini in the World's Religions is mainly associated with Hinduism. However, Kundalini as a spiritual experience is thought to have parallels in many of the mystical and gnostic traditions of the world's great religions. Many factors point to the universality of the phenomenon. The early Christians might have referred to the concept as 'pneuma', and there are some recent parallels in contemporary Christian Charismatic 'Holy Ghost' phenomena.

I feel that two clans confront each others.
One of them focus on external light (NDE-Drugs= Illumination) and another one on the inner awakening and illumination taught by the elders.

The group connected to technology gave their power away to evolve spiritually.
They ascend through NDE to eventually be enlightened. They arent humans

The other group I've encountered in my life is involved in high spiritual practices regardless the medium.

I'm surrounded by dead beings in my reality and sometimes I feel as if I'm the only survivor.

They are all sad, programmed without energy, dead inside.

Only programmed bots around.

There is exceptions. Few ones are inspiring.

The dimension I evolve at the moment is an AI dimension and the frequecies are really low.

Why do I share this with you and how is it connected to the subject of the light after death?

All those who promote enlightement through NDE are entrapped in the matrix. (the highjacked process achieved through technology)

All those who promote enlightement through the rising of the Kundalini serpent are part of the divine realm. (The natural process)

They called them illuminatis. Look at the picture above.
Do you think that illuminated beings can reach this state through evilness?

They want to replace them by machines.

I'm not saying the machine man cannot feel compassion by the way but they are limited .

Unfortunately they gonna failed .

Why?

sure they won't answer and thank us
They are at war with the natural man

[Frankie]

Hi,

I encountered the same information that lead me down a very long path. Simon it turns out was very brave to mention that...the programming and control of the afterlife.What I may say here may blow your mind but it comes at the end of a very long pilgrimage down some very deep dark rabbit holes. Finally came to a realization that there was no end in sight. My search has included spiritual practice so that aspect is a priority in understanding. Well, brace yourself...if you can take this in?...what I discovered is that the whole world, the universe itself and all dimensions are an artificially constructed hologram, an overlay imposed on the divine creation. We are multidimensional powerful light beings who have been imprisoned in matter...blinded to who we are and actually unable to connect to source because of it. Source does not require worship...only the false god of this universe does. How do we get out of this? Through I am, you are and we are. A recognition that we are all one and that all divisions are superficial and created by an artificial matrix of divide and rule. i found three sources that help with this. David Icke, Paul Selig, and the Wingmakers.

[Biff]

A recognition that we are all one and that all divisions are superficial and created by an artificial matrix of divide and rule.

Are you saying that all that is needed to escape the supposed false light matrix is a Realization of Unity Consciousness?

[Calz]

i found three sources that help with this. David Icke, Paul Selig, and the Wingmakers.



Tom Campbell - My Big TOE (theory of everything)

[itsme]

A recognition that we are all one and that all divisions are superficial and created by an artificial matrix of divide and rule.

Are you saying that all that is needed to escape the supposed false light matrix is a Realization of Unity Consciousness?

Had time to research a bit but gonna have to put more time on this one

Found this quote


Clearly if you're thinking of The All in spatial terms you could go on and on. That, then, must not be what's meant by the all. It's more like an orientation, a feel of the whole thing's awareness, a quality of some sort that can only be experienced if you're ostesibly ABLE to factor in all information, put it in that context. Cuz the fact is that, vast as it is spatially, you still ARE it.

If each universal consciousness bubble expresses a similar and opposite reality in order to balance the great design, some of these cells vibrate at lower or higher level of counsciousness based on their belief system.

The illumination which I refer requires that we discern and split truth (Higher level of understanding) from falsehood. (lower vibrational bubbles and truth)

To become one with all ask us to transcend the lower levels of life without being imprisonned in these bubbles of being.

This artificial matrix who attempt to divide and rule over humans has been highjacked by darkers entities for their own profit.

These beings are stuck in the lowest level of counsciousness and think they have no other choice. Jealousy, envy, destruction , control through abuse is the only thing they know being imprisonned in darkness.

They try to recrute humans to consolidate their operating system and refuse to face where they are wrong. Few of them have big ego and will never recover.

[itsme]

i found three sources that help with this. David Icke, Paul Selig, and the Wingmakers.



Tom Campbell - My Big TOE (theory of everything)

I have read the trilogy of ABD Rushin

similar in many ways

[itsme]

Draw a world of different bubbles and place them according to their level of vibrational truths in considering that the ultimate of it all is the illumination of counsciousness.

All the bubbles along your way up were built with different strict rules which prevent and faciltate people to attain NIRVANA.

.....
add few more things

when you compromise the evolution of the Great all for your own profit , you are stuck in the lower level of life.

One will answer, all is relative, and I agree but when you force upon people to believe that Allah or, Jesus is the only way ...you are lying and slow down the process of evolution for All.

All prophets deserve our attention and recognition without imprisonning people into rigid systems where everybody are dying through spiritual dependance .

It is true for religions but also for many others things in life.

[itsme]

http://image.wikifoundry.com/image/2/DsPy9Jr17vxfZgmxm268yQ48339/GW240H341




Kundalini in the World's Religions is mainly associated with Hinduism. However, Kundalini as a spiritual experience is thought to have parallels in many of the mystical and gnostic traditions of the world's great religions. Many factors point to the universality of the phenomenon. The early Christians might have referred to the concept as 'pneuma', and there are some recent parallels in contemporary Christian Charismatic 'Holy Ghost' phenomena.



Walking into the light

interesting read.
p.46-47-48


https://books.google.com/books?id=GkOiBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&ots=b9N0EuzaJI&focus=viewport&dq=concept+as+%27pneuma%27,+and+there+are+some+recent+parallels+in+contemporary+Christian+Charismati c+%27Holy+Ghost%27+phenomena.&hl=fr


Was searching on the holy Christian ghost and found this.


Spiritual literature also describes instances when Kundalini can be initiated. Initiation of kundalini activity is usually considered to take place by a form of 'laying on of hands', or shaktipat, where physical contact to the body or the forehead of the subject by the guru or initiator is supposed to cause an experience of Kundalini that later may persist or grow with continuing practice, or fade away if practice is neglected. Eye contact during satsang with the guru is also supposed to cause this experience. Within the context of spiritual literature inadvertent kundalini experiences have also been reported to take place when subjects physically contacted powerful gurus, such as Meher Baba, by accident

http://www.haryana-online.com/culture/kundalini.htm

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meher_Baba

On Meher Baba

[greybeard]

Hiitsme
I have posted several times on Kundalini so I wont go into any depth or personal detail--enough to say it is universal and not down to prior knowledge, technique or a guru's shaktipat--as in my case the energy started its passage up my spine spontaneously---It was only on investigation that I found out about Kundalini--never heard of it prior to this.

Best wishes
Chris

[itsme]

Hiitsme
I have posted several times on Kundalini so I wont go into any depth or personal detail--enough to say it is universal and not down to prior knowledge, technique or a guru's shaktipat--as in my case the energy started its passage up my spine spontaneously---It was only on investigation that I found out about Kundalini--never heard of it prior to this.

Best wishes
Chris

Spot on with this thread Greybeard
Exactly where I was heading

The Kundalini Is The Holy Spirit! What Your Church Doesn't Want You To Know---


Having grown up in a catholic environment and educated by nuns , I never made the correlation between the holy spirit , kundalini and the christ counsciousness.

I must say they never abused me and gave us a general good education.

During the Kali Yuga, Angels and Jesus have been chosen to serve as divine messengers . The dark age immerse people in darkness. Christianism seems to have been necessary to lead the blind ones incarnated.

Another time , another pitch and so much hate to destroy the past belief system.


You probably read about the binary solar system in which we evolve. If not, you must.

Those planning to take the lead in the future compete and act out of love. Sad.

Many want to immigrate here. Why?

Not that bad probably.
they didn't achieve it in their home country.

Don't come here to impose your belief system if everything already collapse in your world.

In a world in transition , people are not always grateful


.....

and about your spontaneous kundalini rising.... Great for you

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Carol's reading for me (received today) included her feelings about the "light trap".

"He [Simon Parkes] has talked about the light tunnel being a trap that leads to a memory erasure station and manipulation. I agree with that because people are working towards the light." Carol

[Unicorn]

Thanks, Ron. Although I don't understand very well what the last quote means, really.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Thanks, Ron. Although I don't understand very well what the last quote means, really.
​
About the tunnel of light or "light trap" experienced at the time of transition.

Version #1
There are many near death stories of the light tunnel written by researchers including Dr. Raymond Moody.

A tunnel of light appears, along with deceased friends and family, all of whom invite you to go through the tunnel. As you enter the tunnel there is a loud buzzing sound. For some, a religious figure will appear in the tunnel, encouraging your progress.

Version #2
The light tunnel appears. Loving friends/relatives encourage you to travel through the tunnel. It is a manufactured illusion. The light tunnel is a trap maintained by negative ETs, leading to a memory erasure station. You, the recently departed, are put before a panel of entities (manipulators) that trick you into giving your permission to return for another incarnation. If they are successful, you will be incarnated into a scenario that is beneficial to the negative ETs.

The alternative to a manipulated incarnation is to maintain a strong intention to turn your back on the light trap and return to Source, where you can make decisions about future incarnations with wise council, without manipulation.

I often reinforce my intention to return to Source before going to sleep. I say to myself "I go home to Source."

There is much discussion, pro and con, about the light trap on the forum that you can search for and explore.

[Unicorn]

Thanks, Ron. Sorry, I didn't express very well myself. I know all this about the tunnel trap. What I don't understand is "I agree with that. Because people are working towards the light".

But I don't want to bother you. Thanks again :-)

[RunningDeer]

27:38 Now he is talking about the "light tunnel" being a trap that leads to a [] erasure station and manipulation. I agree with that. Because people are working towards the light.


Thanks, Ron. Although I don't understand very well what the last quote means, really.

I was flummoxed too, Unicorn. I had to read it several times. I'm still unclear of Carol Clark's point of view. For now, how I understand it is the inorganic tricksters have incrementally lead us through belief systems and further reinforced by way of the New Age philosophy to follow the tunnel of light at death.

That’s when you hear them call out, “Ha! Got another one Charlie. No ET phone home for you. Right this way, sleepy one. What’s your pleasure? Ben and Jerry’s? Tequila shot? You look like you could use a double."

Charlie instructs, “Just follow the yellow brick road. Your loved ones are waiting for you right around the bend. Stay the path.”

http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Recovered/smiley-hug_zpspv2dbwje.GIF Another high-fives Charlie, “Another one way free trip to reincarnation merry-go-round land.”

Changing tone here…

I’ve not experienced a near death that I am aware of. But I did experience a giving up the physical, two months after a deep loss of a loved one. There was no tunnel of light nor light. Only peace. A dark rest space/place. Then a return because there was a lot more of my journey to go.

♡

[Mike]

I'm also interested in Carol's take on "the light". l've always hoped the light was benevolent and authentic, but I'm open to other ideas. I think it's important to note that what we call "A.I." and astral tricksters are both great imitators and replicators (at least that's what the research seems to suggest). I often wonder if the confusion arises from this. Maybe the light is benevolent and authentic AND maybe there is a sort of phony light that souls get tricked into following. I dunno...just thinking out loud.

[Rainbowheart]

27:38 Now he is talking about the "light tunnel" being a trap that leads to a memory erasure station and manipulation. I agree with that. Because people are working towards the light.

Ron what does this mean, can you explain it to me please?
Is this the light tunnel people see during death, and if this is a trap, what else is there?

thanks Maria

[Ron Mauer Sr]

27:38 Now he is talking about the "light tunnel" being a trap that leads to a memory erasure station and manipulation. I agree with that. Because people are working towards the light.

Ron what does this mean, can you explain it to me please?
Is this the light tunnel people see during death, and if this is a trap, what else is there?

thanks Maria

I suspect that Simon Parkes is correct when he says turn your back to the light tunnel seen at death and go the other way, while maintaining a strong intent to return to Source.
Starting and reinforcing your intent to return home to Source is a good thing to do now and every night as you are going to sleep. According to Simon, as you walk away from the light trap, you will see something that resembles a fence designed to keep you captured. As you move towards the fence you will find a hole or some way to pass through it.

Follow your intuition. Pay attention to how your body feels. Intuition is your guidance.

[Ewan]

I suspect that Simon Parkes is correct when he says turn your back to the light tunnel seen at death and go the other way, while maintaining a strong intent to return to Source.
Starting and reinforcing your intent to return home to Source is a good thing to do now and every night as you are going to sleep. According to Simon, as you walk away from the light trap, you will see something that resembles a fence designed to keep you captured. As you move towards the fence you will find a hole or some way to pass through it.

Follow your intuition. Pay attention to how your body feels. Intuition is your guidance.

From what I've gleaned reading various reports over the years a lot of people have described being 'drawn' to the light, or some finding themselves already in a tunnel and being propelled along it. Encounters with entities/beings frequently describe a feeling of unconditional love.

If this light (and tunnel) are part of the trap it seems your intuitions are not much use to you at this point, these peoples 'feelings' were their intuitions. It would seem your very intuitions can be created, or at least influenced, (and we are not in the habit of questioning our intuitions very deeply), once you reach that point, so by then it is already too late.

I've also read accounts of various Tibetan masters who would practice taking their awareness into sleep with them so they would not fall prey to the traps of the afterlife. Practicing lucid dreaming might be the same.

So I surmise for those already awakening there is a better chance of negotiating that boundary between what we call life and death. I fear for the majority that will not be the case, and that raises a question. Where is the free will? If there is a soul-trap set up around earth/humanity where are the options. Where's the 'good guy' to counter the 'bad guy'. To give you a choice. It looks like a pretty stacked deck to me.

I recall on reading 'Journey of Souls' and 'Destiny of Souls' by Michael Newton that several times I got an uncomfortable feeling reading certain accounts. My intuition was that something was not right about this, (what I was reading). My hesitant conclusion was that there was still an element of control about it all, things were still being hidden. That is written clearly (quoting from memory) I was not allowed to see beyond this/that point, or variations of such.

Right now my position is such that I will be wary of the light, and another part of me asks 'What if that is the greatest psy-op of all?' Make them fear the light.

How can we know. That would be the greatest gift you could give to anyone in a 3D incarnation right now.

PS. My intuitions of SP when meeting him and conversing with him at a talk were not favourable. There could well be a good man in there but he may not be free of negative influences himself.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

'What if that is the greatest psy-op of all?' Make them fear the light.How can we know.

That's a great point.

I do believe that many many souls who pass over do eschew the light. And you know why? Not because they believe it's a trap per se. With people who have led bad, destructive, or abusive lives, there can be only one place for them! They are terrified of the light. They shunned it in life, and so they do so in death as well. They are terrified at the very thought that they are dead, and that there is an after life. They're terrified of judgement, because that's what religion and the threat of hellfire teaches. So they stay put, in limbo, and they don't go into the light. They become earthbound spirits, stuck in an indeterminate state between realms - the very same place where lower entities mingle, feeding from this fear.

Maybe you are right, Ewan. The light trap as a psy-op, to prevent people from moving on so they get actually trapped in the lower realms.

Neither do I believe it's correct that, instead of going into the light, one could simply 'return to Source'. Source is where we came from, but you cannot get back there until the very end of your journey. That's our destination, but in terms of linear time that could be billions of years from now. I doubt there's a way to simply 'go back' to source and stay there before time, otherwise, there would be no life and the Universe would be empty, everyone would've gone back to Source, because they could do so. It's not possible to skip the line!

I really just don't know, but the light trap as a psyop does make some sense. If you think about it another way, a 'light trap' in itself is a pretty strange concept. I feel that if you are not of the light, you cannot 'fake' light. Anyone can manufacture darkness, by merely depriving a thing of light. But I find it hard to believe that light itself can be "made" from that which is dark and deceitful. Light simply is. Far more than illumination, it is warmth, peace, harmony, truth, and it is infinite, eternal, and unconditional love. This is what so many report in their NDEs. I find it difficult to understand how such things, that resonate in the very depths of our souls, can be faked.


My hesitant conclusion was that there was still an element of control about it all, things were still being hidden. That is written clearly (quoting from memory) I was not allowed to see beyond this/that point, or variations of such.


Another reason the light trap argument feels wrong is that there is no illusion on the other side, no trickery, and no deceit. Just vibration. And as you mentioned Ewan, anything in spirit that is kept beyond our perception, something we're not meant or allowed to see or experience, is because it's naturally beyond our ability to grasp, or beyond our vibrational attainment. I think that's ok, and there's nothing subversive or suspicious about that. Everything over there is thought and energy, and all communication is telepathic. Everything is known immediately, including deceit. Fakery cannot exist.

[RunningDeer]

Nix the tunnel of light...

I’m here as a catalyst to alter the future and to expand in knowledge, experience and wisdom. I’m subject to the rules of this illusionary maze (for now). One aspect of the journey is to perish the ego. Ego is more than a psychological or philosophical ideology. It’s an implant, an energetic overlay that runs the mind and biology. It is cemented through culture, family, education, religion, media, etc. It’s core loosens from every crack that comes from the cycles of knowledge, experience and wisdom.

Along this journey, one removes self from consensus reality: loosen attachments to what traps one in the maze, i.e. ideologies and deleterious emotions. As wisdom evolves one opens to and interacts with the larger universe and onto the cosmos which is governed by natural law.

It’s incremental. The more we live spirit-essence and relinquish attachment to ego then we're less and less inclined to be drawn to the tunnel of light technology. Eventually, it's no longer part of the world one has created for self and co-created with others. At death, the reflex action of the innate wisdom of spirit (soul) mergers with complementary vibration.

♡

http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/smilies/check-this.gif

Sorry for soooooo many edits.
Part of the problem is I'm a work in progress.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

While we are on the topic of the light trap and memory erasure station:

I have one recollection (a dream) of what may have been a memory erasure station, part of the "light trap" described by Simon. During the dream, while exploring somewhere off planet, I found a room with an open door. I entered and the door slammed shut and locked behind me. A very loud buzzing sound started and in the room with me were robots, possibly grays. Immediately recognizing that this was a trap, I called upon friendly ETs to get me out. No help came. Then I called upon my own power and was immediately set free. Probably a big lesson here.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Ego is more than a psychological or philosophical ideology. It's an implant, an energetic overlay that runs the mind and biology. It is cemented through culture, family, education, religion, media, etc.

Hi Running Deer, good points. But to add, in my personal belief, the ego is something else, and arises from something different. Not that it cannot be nudged and expanded (corrupted) by these things, but I believe the ego, rather than a technological implant, is a natural part of our awareness, and is basically the sum, expressing itself, of all our former experiences (good and bad) in this life, and importantly all those of our former lives.

This energy framework also expresses itself as conscience, dictating what we feel, what we think, what we say and what we do - based on all previously acquired knowledge and understanding. It is an expression of our vibration, and the level we're at. That's just what I believe anyway. But I also believe that on this long road to truth, the First Truth to be aware of is that what is true today, might not be true tomorrow.

We're all learning, we're all growing, and we're all trying to figure it out. For me anyway the truth as we understand it is relative, and always subject to editing :)

[RunningDeer]

[ego is] ...natural part of our awareness, and is basically the sum, expressing itself, of all our former experiences (good and bad) in this life, and importantly all those of our former lives.

For me, ego is not a natural part of our awareness that’s what we’ve been programed to believe. Ego stunts opportunity for awareness. It’s job is to keep us busy. Keep us involved in defending it’s positions and lamenting it’s wrongs, all to keep us away from true self. That goes for former lives, the job is/was the same; dumb down and continuously circle the drain.


But I also believe that on this long road to truth, the First Truth to be aware of is that what is true today, might not be true tomorrow.

The road doesn’t need to be as long as we’ve been lead to believe. (Whatever long is.) We only have to step into another perspective where ego is not invited to join in the game. Yes, I agree. What is true today may not be true tomorrow. That’s the beauty of it. Once we dethrone ego and its ideas of how things should be, we invite our self into a whole new game.


http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Recovered/greenstars_zpscfgxxgeh.GIF
♡

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

For me, ego is not a natural part of our awareness that’s what we’ve been programed to believe. Ego stunts opportunity for awareness. It’s job is to keep us busy. Keep us involved in defending it’s positions and lamenting it’s wrongs, all to keep us away from true self. That goes for former lives, the job is/was the same; dumb down and continuously circle the drain.

I know what you're saying, but I have a different view. I love you Running Deer I really do, so I hate disagreeing with you (it is however very rare). But I see things in a different light, and here's why.

I don't think the ego is there to stunt our awareness, it could perhaps be viewed as a wall, a stumbling block, for us to overcome in order to gain more awareness. The ego is full of traps and snares, and maybe that's the point insofar as progression and attainment of spiritual awareness is concerned?

I might be completely wrong, I don't know. It's just how I see it at the present time...the ego not as a retardation of awareness, but a tool through which we attain more awareness. I think of the ego as just 'selfness'. In extremes there can be the psychological (and psychic) complex where the emphasis of one's internal perception is concentrated strongly or solely on the betterment of self (at the expense of others). I think that's what you were talking about, a kind of dog eat dog sort of attitude. In other words conceit and self importance. In that, yes, I completely follow you and agree it is not a normal, natural way to be, and absolutely not the way. This is mostly down to negative programming (and undeveloped awareness).

But I still think the "ego" is a necessary thing. It's a natural part of that which actually makes us individual pieces of consciousness. The ego is defined in psychology as:

"the part of the psychic apparatus that experiences and reacts to the outside world and thus mediates between the primitive drives of the id and the demands of the social and physical environment."

It omits any spiritual recognition, but it's reasonably correct I think. But a healthy, balanced ego is the goal, where ego = a healthy and balanced view and perception of The Self, and then because of that, and through that: all other Selves.

Ultimately, the ego is what gives us individualization, which in turns grants us our personalities, without which we would not be able to identify ourselves as a self, or be able to function as free-will beings incarnate in a human vehicle. I think part of the exercise is to conquer the ego, and to recognize and overcome its pitfalls. In so doing, discovering we're all One.

[RunningDeer]

I know what you're saying, but I have a different view. I love you Running Deer I really do, so I hate disagreeing with you (it is however very rare). But I see things in a different light, and here's why.

Disagreement is okay. Thank you for taking the time to express your views, Star Mariner. http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Recovered/smileys-hugs-765537_zpso1eaenyy.gif

It's helped me clarify some points for myself that I haven't been able to articulate. And because of your input, I've got more to ponder.

Love right back to you,
Paula ♡

[onawah]

My impressions re the tunnel of light vs Source vary somewhat from what I've read so far in that I think we were meant to be able to go to Source between lifetimes to rest and heal and review our lives and decide on a soul level whether we are ready to stay in the Oneness or whether we want to return.
The control system that Earth is presently under has robbed us of that unless we are very strong and clear, though I think it has still been possible for the most evolved souls to escape the continuing rounds of reincarnation.
But it's more difficult than it really needs to be because the predators want to continue having lots of victims to keep their game going.
I've studied Tibetan Buddhism and I think the Tibetans know that there are more traps than just the light tunnel (though I do believe that is one trap).
Some of the traps may lead to higher planes where existence is not so painful if we are strong enough spiritually to make it there, though they can also lead eventually back to 3D existence, which is why the Tibetan Book of the Dead advises to move past even those realms of light.
There are other traps which lead to lower Bardo states where we suffer if we have not lived to our potential before we are able to mover closer to Source or to reincarnate.
But if we are given the choice of the light tunnel and return instead to Source, which is our true home, we can still choose to reincarnate; the big difference is that we have had the chance to heal, to rest and to review our lives, and we can to some extent choose what will be our next incarnation, rather than having it chosen for us in the punishment/reward system the prison wardens have devised for us.
But it's very important to remember, according to the Tibetans, that everything but Source is an illusion, because it is our own beliefs in the illusions that we are presented with that keep us entrapped.
I believe that Simon Parkes said that if we are in the light tunnel and someone appears to us who looks like Jesus or Buddha (or whoever)-- someone who we would tend to trust in implicitly-- if we really use our discernment, we will SEE that that's not who they really are.
So I think it's not just intuition we need to employ, but also caution and fine discernment.
And it's important to be very focused and prepared for going on that journey, and to live the best life we can until that crossing over so that we are ready for it.
Castaneda's teacher don Juan said to live life like Death is stalking you every moment, and then you may be prepared for it when it comes, and escape the devouring Eagle to fly to freedom.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Castaneda's teacher don Juan said to live life like Death is stalking you every moment, and then you may be prepared for it when it comes, and escape the devouring Eagle to fly to freedom.

I remember Castenada talking about the Eagle consuming consciousness but not all the details. My own "Eagle" experience at the Monroe Institute felt very positive. During a session (think of it as a dream while listening to Hemi-Sync (https://www.monroeinstitute.org/catalog/hemi-sync%C2%AE)) I was outside under a bright starlit sky. I levitated then flew to the stars. Some stars were shaped in the form of an Eagle's head. As I passed through the Eagle's head I was overwhelmed with the feeling of love. And I realized I had the freedom to choose any adventure I wanted.

[onawah]

Some days, I kind of prefer don Juan's option myself.
If we are all eternal, why not choose a multidimensional kind of freedom rather than just disembodied bliss consciousness?
But I think perhaps the rub is that there are always risks in the latter. :decision:

[joeecho]

"Don't go into the light"

(big inner smile)

Too late.

In reality, we are all consciousness rebels.

Where all is equal, consciousness is a rebellious act.

[Caliban]

"Don't go into the light"

(big inner smile)

Too late.

In reality, we are all consciousness rebels.

Where all is equal, consciousness is a rebellious act.

I'm intrigued -- would you mind elaborating on that?

[Mike]

I'll be the first to admit that i'm succeptible to whatever I happen to be reading or listening to in any given moment. Lately ive been listening to lots of stuff on electronic harassment, and i'm very cynical as a result...So the light as "trap" seems more probable to me now than it has in years past, especially when really smart people I respect support that position.

Theres some really good back n forth here between Paula and Star Mariner. Theyre both highly intelligent and convincing.....and they both represent the enigma that often emerges in these types of topics. Which is the psyop? the light itself?....OR the idea of the light being phony and malevolent? Which is the psyop? the ego being an inplanted overlay?....OR the ego being a natural, necessary challenge created by a benevolent creator?...

Another admission: this topic bugs me. I have to admit that I have an emotional and/or intellectual attachment to this idea of the light being benevolent. In the conspiracy world, we might call this a "trigger". I have an investment in this idea, for better or worse. Investments take energy...and no one wants to admit that theyve foolishly wasted their energy on something that is untrue. In my opinion, this is why people remain stuck in stale and stubborn memes - theyd rather argue for the wrong position into eternity than simply admit theyve been wrong. Ive stubbornly clung to this idea of the light being good and authentic, and a part of me resents being challenged on it. Is this my inner "programming" resisting a potential truth? Am I clinging to this idea out of an irrational stubbornness? Or is this so much of an authentic spiritual certainty to me that I resent the muddying of the waters coming from the malevolent light people? I honestly can't say...

..like I said, im susceptible to whatever I happen to be researching at the time. My opinions on many things are always in flux. And when it comes to things we really don't know the answers to with any sort of certainty, intellectual flexibility seems the most prudent stance to me. Unless we've died and come back (and some here have!), all our info regarding the light comes from books or interviews etc. My personal tho still very flexible stance at the moment is that reincarnation is a good and natural process put in place by a good and natural creator. When the word "recycle" is used in its place it makes us sound as negligible and unimportant as soda bottles...and the notion of the light seems artificial and deceptive. It all depends on how one approaches it. Words are important!

I dont know what happens when we die. I only know what I want to have happen. at the moment, it's an emotional and intellectual longing trying to bridge an endless abyss of unknowingness. The research seems to suggest the light is good...the key word being *seems*. But as we all know, things arent always what they seem to be

[onawah]

The terms "light" and "false light" can be interpreted in a lot of ways.
People like Dannion Brinkley who died and came back more than once and remembered incredible, life-changing experiences after his return concur that great things can happen to us after death and that there are benevolent beings on "the other side" that can help us and direct our feet onto a path of "Light" are very convincing, and I don't doubt them.
77lc0yasjYc
I have experienced the true Light during satori experiences, as have many over the ages, and it is realer than real.
So yes, I say there is Light that is from Source and that is what Consciousness truly is.
But the false light is something else, and though it is deceptive, I think it is actually a very poor imitation once you have experienced the real thing.
You can experience false light being channeled through certain New Age type teachers, religious evangelists etc. who have a kind of power, and it can seem like the real thing if you don't really pay attention, or if you are willing to be taken for a superficial feel good ride, or if you simply want to surrender to a power that you think is going to take care of you so you can relinquish responsibility for yourself.
I think those deceivers are often being controlled by the Archons, the Djinn, or the Greys or the Reptilians, or whatever other kinds negative forces there are arrayed here who are trying to keep us enslaved, and so there is a kind of power that seems to be otherworldly, and in a way, of course, it is.
But otherworldly isn't necessarily a good thing, obviously!
It's hard to be precise when describing this situation because it's very complex, but I think it's safe to say there are two different kinds of light/Light that we are discussing here, and it's important to understand that.

[East Sun]

Dylan Thomas

"Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage at the dying of the light."

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

My personal tho still very flexible stance at the moment is that reincarnation is a good and natural process put in place by a good and natural creator. When the word "recycle" is used in its place it makes us sound as negligible and unimportant as soda bottles...and the notion of the light seems artificial and deceptive.

I think that too Mike. This is a world of fear, darkness, and chaos, and in this highly corrupted and subversive atmosphere could there be a better psy-op to oppress us even more than to tell us, "hey, there's no hope for you, because even the light at the end of the tunnel is fake, death is no escape." This feel to me like another level of control, another kick into the guts of humanity, in other words, just another lie.

I can't refute the existence of Archonic light traps, because I don't know from actual experience. But ask yourself, where does this information come from? People. Human sources, mostly on youtube and internet blogs. Whereas all other information about 'light', 'heaven', and the 'afterlife', and there are reams of it, centuries of it, comes from the horse's mouth, ie Spirit, clairvoyant mediums, our higher selves during hypno-regression, and even the Bible. And they say no such thing. Precisely the opposite in fact. Unless all that is fake too (which I am sure is not), I'll go with that source rather than the fear-based, control-driven, lie-ridden human perspective.

If there is a trap, it's right here. Earth. This is the trap. You live your lives, and through your choices and your actions you shed, or accumulate karma. It is precisely karma, and the work we have to do here to clear it, that keeps bringing us back. You cannot graduate until you've finished all the lessons. If you want out of Earth, live, learn, love, and forgive. Unconditionally and always. That's the ticket.

[Wind]

I would have to agree with Star Mariner. Of all of the things death doesn't worry me one bit. I have to say, I'm looking forward to it, although not in the sense that I would hurry it. I don't think I'm meant to die anytime soon and I don't think I will, but if I do then so be it. I just can't see it as a negative thing in any way. If the process of birth and death was in any way skewed then that would be imply to me that we don't have a benevolent Creator and that is just not the reality. At least not one I would ever to choose to believe in.

This Earth is a very beautiful place (it isn't flat either, btw), but yet also this place is filled with horrors and sadness. It's a priviledge to be alive in these times and yet at times it's also so hard. Yet we chose to come to this mental asylum for a reason. Lifetime after lifetime, so that we could learn and evolve. We have been born and died a million times. Nothing ever ends, but does anything ever start either? Personally I'm working on getting rid of negativity and fear, not adding to it. Anything that makes you feel fearful or dreadful is a red flag. Where does the feeling come from? The forces of light and dark are battling here on Earth through us humans. How will we choose to act and contribute? Now that is the question.

[petra]

Right now my position is such that I will be wary of the light, and another part of me asks 'What if that is the greatest psy-op of all?' Make them fear the light.

How can we know. That would be the greatest gift you could give to anyone in a 3D incarnation right now.

I'm more than wary! I've decided if I see any lights beckoning me, I'm not going - regardless of what my feelings/intuition tells me. Bottom line - I don't trust my feelings. If the light wants me - it's going to have to drag me :)

[Rocky_Shorz]

I have been to Nirvana and heaven, lifted the sick in my arms until heavens light healed them.

But it really doesn't matter what I share with you, until you see it for yourself, you won't believe.

Your Spirit knows and will cross regardless of what your conscious decides.

Ghosts are the ones who turned from the light with unfinished business.

[petra]

...., and all communication is telepathic. Everything is known immediately, including deceit. Fakery cannot exist.

Makin' me want to cry :) Sounds like perfection, right there

[petra]

Ultimately, the ego is what gives us individualization, which in turns grants us our personalities, without which we would not be able to identify ourselves as a self, or be able to function as free-will beings incarnate in a human vehicle. I think part of the exercise is to conquer the ego, and to recognize and overcome its pitfalls. In so doing, discovering we're all One.

Ah-HA! Key word here ... free-will. It totally makes sense to conquer what's holding us back... plus a lot of negative feelings arise from there.

Personally I feel like I have very little ego left... I don't really get embarrassed anymore, and not being able to understand certain things doesn't frustrate me anymore. What other people think of me doesn't matter either - that's just none of my business. It's definitely a less stressful way to be :)

I recall trying to write "freewill"... but it came out as "frewill"... That's my "shifty writing" kicking in :) I thought "where'd my E go?" and then I couldn't stop laughing!

[Callista]

In response to a request from a member who has been posting on this thread, I am posting some information (yes its Cosmic Awareness channelled through Will) that was given in 2015 in response to some questions regarding Simon Parkes' warning about the White Light. This information is normally only available to Rainbow Phoenix members, but Will has consented to share these excerpts with you. No discussion will be entered into - it is what it is, take or leave it. For further information about Will's work please go to https://rainbowphoenix.com.au

Excerpt from transcript August 2014 “Prison Planet and the White Light”

There is indeed an important area this Awareness wishes to speak on. In regard to the concept of ‘prison planet’ and the returning of souls, the imprisonment of souls, that is important to be spoken of. This Awareness wishes to do so
now.

That also in the Simon Parkes interview, he stated that it was the White Light that was used to deceive and to misdirect and to capture those returning souls. This of course is a very popular concept and there are indeed, as Simon Parkes correctly said, many films, books and opinions on this matter that state that the White Light is connected to God, and that the White Light will come and guide you home, guide the returning soul aspect back to its spiritual home and its soul being.

But this one, Simon Parkes, also stated that this is a deception, a device used to misguide and misdirect, and that those who simply and blindly follow the White Light are the ones that will be recaptured, their minds erased and that they simply are recycled back into physicality and human form. That this Awareness will now state that this is so. That this will certainly challenge many, but this Awareness wishes to explain.

That this is a device that is presented in the Bardo levels and that many may indeed be fooled by this device, this presentation of the White Light, and may return back into physical life again and again, to be used for the purpose of the enslavers on this planet. But it need not be so, for as this Awareness has said, for the true soul aspect that has determined that it will return, that the White Light will not necessarily appear, and even if it does there will be another force that will guide the individual aspect to ignore this and to bypass this, and to simply return through the Bardo levels. If it does not happen so, then it is still the plan of the soul to have the extended experience either in the Bardo levels or returning back into physical incarnation.

Indeed, this was known in the past and certain cultures, such as the ancient Egyptians and even the Tibetans, had what they called the Book of the Dead. The Tibetan Book of the Dead warned one of what to look for, what to expect, what to avoid when the soul aspect left the body.

There were very clear warnings of how it was, and clear warnings of what to avoid, such as deceptive energies as the White Light. When one was preparing to die in these cultures, prayers were said, meditation was done, and intent stated. The intent to return back to fifth dimension, back to Nirvana, back to one’s spiritual home. And thus, cultures once upon a time were taught of such matters, but this has fallen by the wayside as controlled religions that come under the onus of their masters, perverted this and did not teach this.

Thus it is that many have an encounter with the White Light, which many who are Light Workers believe in thoroughly and completely. This Awareness is aware that speaking of this matter may be difficult for many but this Awareness says to those who have difficulty on this matter to simply be open to this, to consider this, to understand that one can be guided home. That there is that inner draw and compulsion and that there are often spiritual ones, family, and angelic beings who will come to guide one. But when it is so that one sees a certain White Light that one does not simply step into it without questioning it, without asking what it is, or more importantly even, without calling for their own guidance from ones loved, guidance by those who are of high spirit before simply stepping into the White Light.

That this is a matter that this Awareness does not ask all to believe in: the statement that the White Light is deception. But It does ask all to consider this, to understand that you will indeed be returned to Spirit if that is your intention and desire. The warnings against the Bardo levels have been long-standing by this Awareness and by many sources and many cultures, and as said, there were indeed cultures that did have an instruction manual if you will of how to proceed through the Bardo levels and pass the gridwork, the force field that would and could bring one back. But also to understand that in the greater context of a soul choosing to have the physical experience, that this can include being returned back into physical life over and over until one finally ‘gets it’, one finally ‘awakens’ to an inner truth and inner understanding, and one truly then decides and determines that nothing will misguide them, misdirect them or prevent them from going home. And that there are ones, the Mantis in particular, who are here to ensure that this is so on these levels, for they too can access fourth dimensionality, can travel the Bardo levels and can assist the returning soul to achieve their goal to return home, back indeed to Spirit and back indeed to their soul group and soul family.

That this Awareness is complete with this answer. It is aware that it has opened up a can of worms, but It is fully prepared to address this matter again for those who find the concepts too difficult, or do not understand quite how this may work.

This Awareness would simply say here that It is seeking to assist humanity at this stage of spiritual growth and advancement, and that it is time for those who are truly interested and understanding these matters, to take a big step forward in their growth and development, and this does often involve entertaining thoughts that previously were inconceivable and unacceptable.

But it is up to each individual to make their own choice on the matter, to make their own decisions of what it is they wish to believe. This Awareness is only presenting this information to assist humanity and those who are hearing these words, but It will not interfere or intrude in an individual’s right to choose what they wish to believe, or choose how they wish to live their life, or even how to make journey back to their spiritual home and their soul being.

September 2014
DOGMA OF THE WHITE LIGHT
That this Awareness does indeed have an opening message. That It would choose to talk about dogma, dogma of belief, that which is the prescribed understanding and the prescribed set of rules of belief that accompany many religions; many attitudes of how to live one's life, how to be in society and in context to life on this third dimensional planet. It is far easier for most to simply have a set of rules by which one lives, that have been ordained and ratified by those that are thought to be the authorities and the experts.

That of course, most think dogma pertains primarily to religious dogma but there is that which is also societal dogma, scientific dogma, economic dogma, political dogma. The list indeed can go on and on. That humans have been trained if you will, to find it easier to simply live their lives in accordance to their dogma than to be original thinkers, to step outside of the box of dogma that one lives in, for to do so would be for most, most challenging indeed and place one, not in the comfort zone but in the discomfort zone.

That many do not wish to live lives that are speculative, that do not have strong and clear foundations, for this is what dogma provides: a strong foundation for the individual in how to live one's life. Dogma, of course does not encourage questioning, does not encourage a free mind to speculate on matters that are questionable or matters that are not easily understood, or matters that are in defiance of that which is the dogma that is believed in.

That this Awareness brings this issue of dogma up for specific reasons, for recently It has brought forth information that challenges dogma for many of the members, many of the readers. Specifically, that which is being challenged is that which this Awareness would broadly call “New Age” dogma.

For there is indeed dogma that is followed by those who claim to be “New Age” ones. This of course includes those who also consider themselves to be Light Workers and Spiritual Seekers. That one of the greatest dogmas is that of the White Light, especially in context to the White Light being that which one must enter when one departs the physical and is returning back into one's spiritual nature, their greater spiritual origins.

That it has been popularized over the last several decades that one must return to the White Light. Films such as that known as “Ghost” for example, had their main actor Patrick Swayze return back into the White Light and that this was done in a way that was most attractive indeed and has left an imprint in consciousness, especially those seeking to have this fundamental knowledge of what to expect upon death. This popularization of this concept of course goes further back. There are other films, other movies, other medias’ presentations that have spoken of this, presented this, but there is also that which is the “New Age” rhetoric, that which is the “New Age” presentation of information of such matters that has indeed been put forward over the last many decades.

It is not simply a new popular belief, for this idea of entering the White Light has been around for some time but it has become very popular in that which this Awareness calls the “New Age” movement in recent decades. The dogma is of course that when one dies and becomes disincarnate spirit, that there will be that which is the White Light that is taught now to be that which must be entered into so that one can return back to the soul, back into fifth dimensional consciousness.

Recently through such works as the presentation of Simon Parkes, that this was brought forward as something one must not do, that one must indeed turn tail and walk in the other direction of the White Light. That this concept of doing so is most challenging for those who have accepted the belief that entry into the White Light will take one back to their spiritual Source, their soul Source, and indeed there are even those who are having trouble with this teaching and those who present it, including this Awareness for supporting this particular dogma.

Such is the strength and power of dogma that one can indeed feel threatened when the dogma itself is challenged, and one can resist, not because the dogma is correct but rather because the dogma is so ingrained in one's programming that to question this belief, this dogmatic belief, is to challenge one's complete sense of what is or is not, and as dogma is often held to be that which provides assurance to one's belief, the ones that one is living by, that any challenge to dogmatic beliefs is indeed threatening.

That this belief in the White Light has become the sacred cow of New Age belief and one that should not be touched, should not be challenged, should not be displaced, for to do so would indeed create a situation most dangerous to the advancement of the soul as it seeks to return back into its greater source consciousness. However, this is not so.

That indeed to question even those fundamental dogmatic beliefs is necessary so that one finally determines for oneself those beliefs that correspond to one's own inner core sensing of things versus those beliefs that have simply been passed on and accepted by one who is a seeker, in this case of spiritual truth and understanding. That the human condition always favors that which is comfortable, that which does not challenge, that which makes things easier for one as they work through the intense quagmire that is human life and the many, many beliefs that accompany it.

Furthermore dogma also has intended purposes of providing one with a sense of superiority, for if one truly holds certain dogmatic beliefs that are in alignment with those held by others, when one is part of a greater group that have a certain way of believing that is dogmatic in nature, then there is that superior attitude that these ones who hold these dogmatic beliefs are right, are correct and all others are therefore wrong. That this is easily seen in the divisions in humanity in the many different areas of human participation and human life.

The greatest of course is religious dogma, but as this Awareness has already said there are many types of dogma. That with this sense of superiority, that many even develop a certain arrogance that the way they believe and that which they hold is correct, is right, and this arrogance sometimes does spill over to an attitude that is condemning of others who do not hold the same dogmatic beliefs.

At this time a prime example of this is the Islamic movement, the radical Islamic movement, that sees that they are right and all others who do not hold their extreme views are wrong. Their dogma suggests that it is all right to behead an enemy, an infidel to their faith, but this is only that which is the dogmatic belief system they have fully accepted and feel strong in, feel arrogant with, that they have the right way of things.

Anyone else looking upon this will see how dangerous, how brutal, how inhumane their dogmatic beliefs are-- these ones who practice mass execution, terror and even the beheading in a public way that is then put
on the Internet.

But do these same ones who can see the gross invalidity and inappropriateness of another's belief, especially extreme beliefs, as is held by these radical, fundamental Muslim ones? Can they themselves see their own limitations due to the dogmatic beliefs that they themselves hold? It is often the case that one can see others’ beliefs and mark them as wrong or right, more often wrong to their beliefs, their dogmas, but yet not see in themselves those dogmatic beliefs that they hold.

Here is a situation with the presentation of information that challenges that which this Awareness is calling the “New Age Dogma of the White Light”, a belief challenger that creates tension and apprehension in one, even hostility and anger for those who consider themselves Light Workers of the highest order. They know that this man, Simon Parkes and the information even provided by Cosmic Awareness must be wrong, for they have their dogmatic beliefs that say this is so, that say that those who bring this into question and disrepute must be wrong.

Remember that this is a dualistic way of understanding this matter. The dualistic way being that if they are right, all others must be wrong. That this matter in a way has an urgency and importance to it, for many of the Light Workers are totally fed up with third dimensional reality as it is experienced in their lives and are only too willing to return back to the greater consciousness, Divine Spirit and that this way of advancing oneself through entering into the White Light is seen as a type of a guarantee for their return back into the Godhead and back into the higher vibrational consciousness that is their greater soul, that is their spiritual environment and home.

But at the same time, what if that which is occurring when one departs their physical body and third dimensional reality is correct, is correct in that the dogma is incorrect? To be clearer, what if upon leaving the physical arena and seeking to return back to spiritual reality, that which is one's spiritual home, one encounters a device that is used and has been used for some time to misdirect and mislead the soul aspect seeking to return?

That if one holds dogma to be that which is correct and the dogma states that one must enter into the White Light, for this is that which God has put forward to assist the homeward-bound soul in its return-- then one will simply enter into the White Light for the belief is that it will do this, is a guarantee that is built into the experience of human life, that is built into the spiritual need for evolution, spiritual evolution, that is contained within all.

This matter of dogma, although it is challenging, although it is frightening for some to challenge such dogmas, is necessary to advance, to free oneself from the shackles of ignorance that one has adopted and assumed, to get back into that which is the spark of the Divine that lies within, that drives one back always to find their spiritual home ground.

That in the challenge, those who provide the challenge, are often falsely identified as the forces of evil who would speak such untruths, but this is absolutely incorrect, for those who would speak such matters, who would challenge such dogmas, are seeking to assist and not to retard or diminish.

Thus in this information, in regard to the challenge, to the dogma of the White Light lies the absolute possibility of freeing oneself from mind control, from deeply embedded beliefs/ dogma that have been ingrained in an individual throughout their lifetime, and perhaps throughout several other lifetimes as well.

That this gives the individual the opportunity to free oneself when one has an experience such as the White Light experience upon crossing, and therefore those who are willing to question, those who are willing to challenge their own dogmas, especially those that this Awareness calls the sacred cow dogmas, that they are the ones that will break the dogma and free themselves to allow themselves to access their higher levels of consciousness and indeed and to not be recaptured by those who have the intent to do so but rather to find again the true sovereignty of one's own being as they return back to Source, free and easy to be those who have broken through.

Dogma is also to be understood therefore as that which will confine one or restrict one or prevent one from expansion and that those who are truly interested in expansion, that they must always question their dogmas, their beliefs, for they do not do so even though they may feel they are right and thus even righteous in holding the beliefs that they hold, that they are indeed prisoners to those dogmatic beliefs and as it is the intent and desire of Divine Spark to return back to its own source, this is an intolerable situation that must be faced, must be handled so that one may find the freedom of their own sovereign being.

Therefore, this Awareness simply would ask that those who are the most challenged by this information, by this radical concept that the White Light may not be what it seems to be-- please look deeper, please ask the
questions of why it is so that you are having such a strong reaction.

If after such an examination, it is still one's belief that the White Light is right and proper, then those who hold this need to continue with this experience of the White Light and the belief in the White Light. There is nothing wrong in doing so but there is that which will be the consequence of such belief, and that this would be returning again into physicality when one has departed it.

For those who are willing to be challenged even though it is uncomfortable and are willing to entertain that perhaps this dogmatic belief is not perhaps what it seems to be, and to those and for those who are ready to release this that they will find the expansion and freedom in their lives and in their destinies as they seek to return back into their home Source of Spirit and soul.

That even before the journey itself, that there will be new freedom in releasing this dogma that will allow them to question other dogmas, other dogmatic beliefs, other ways of thinking that have long been held, never seen as restrictive in nature to their own lives and their own life experiences.

Therefore in conclusion, this Awareness says that if one's beliefs are challenged and one feels uncomfortable with this and antagonistic to those who present such challenge or to the challenges themselves, that this is in itself grounds to look more deeply into one's belief and to find the sacred cow dogmatic beliefs that hold one, restrict one and imprison one into dualistic belief and expectations.

That this is the time to do so, these critical and crucial times, for it is imperative that one be given the opportunity to free oneself from the karmic wheel that has been lived in and been part of one's reality for perhaps many lifetimes. That it is now the time, for the greater force of consciousness that is Divine consciousness is moving, has rolled onto the planet and is upping the game, even the game of looking at one's deeper convictions and beliefs to discover the dogma that lies within.

This Awareness has only been speaking of that which is the device of the White Light, not about that which is the drawing of the energy, the higher energies of spiritual illumination and guardianship, protection and information that is contained within that which is the spiritual force of the Divine that is known as the White Light or simply the Light of Spirit, the Light of the
Divine.

Therefore, please understand that when one actively works with this energy, the energy of the Light, that this is not of the same order as that which this Awareness has been speaking of: that being the Device of the White Light to entrap and to imprison. Is this clear?

[Akeron]

I'll be the first to admit that i'm succeptible to whatever I happen to be reading or listening to in any given moment. Lately ive been listening to lots of stuff on electronic harassment, and i'm very cynical as a result...So the light as "trap" seems more probable to me now than it has in years past, especially when really smart people I respect support that position.

Theres some really good back n forth here between Paula and Star Mariner. Theyre both highly intelligent and convincing.....and they both represent the enigma that often emerges in these types of topics. Which is the psyop? the light itself?....OR the idea of the light being phony and malevolent? Which is the psyop? the ego being an inplanted overlay?....OR the ego being a natural, necessary challenge created by a benevolent creator?...

Another admission: this topic bugs me. I have to admit that I have an emotional and/or intellectual attachment to this idea of the light being benevolent. In the conspiracy world, we might call this a "trigger". I have an investment in this idea, for better or worse. Investments take energy...and no one wants to admit that theyve foolishly wasted their energy on something that is untrue. In my opinion, this is why people remain stuck in stale and stubborn memes - theyd rather argue for the wrong position into eternity than simply admit theyve been wrong. Ive stubbornly clung to this idea of the light being good and authentic, and a part of me resents being challenged on it. Is this my inner "programming" resisting a potential truth? Am I clinging to this idea out of an irrational stubbornness? Or is this so much of an authentic spiritual certainty to me that I resent the muddying of the waters coming from the malevolent light people? I honestly can't say...

..like I said, im susceptible to whatever I happen to be researching at the time. My opinions on many things are always in flux. And when it comes to things we really don't know the answers to with any sort of certainty, intellectual flexibility seems the most prudent stance to me. Unless we've died and come back (and some here have!), all our info regarding the light comes from books or interviews etc. My personal tho still very flexible stance at the moment is that reincarnation is a good and natural process put in place by a good and natural creator. When the word "recycle" is used in its place it makes us sound as negligible and unimportant as soda bottles...and the notion of the light seems artificial and deceptive. It all depends on how one approaches it. Words are important!

I dont know what happens when we die. I only know what I want to have happen. at the moment, it's an emotional and intellectual longing trying to bridge an endless abyss of unknowingness. The research seems to suggest the light is good...the key word being *seems*. But as we all know, things arent always what they seem to be

Very well put. Many ideas that are exemplary of the human condition... and how we lose energy through "not knowing" but really wanting to find out because well... it is very, very important to get it right.

As a result we live with a mind that is afraid to make a mistake and drains us, sometimes in very subtle ways. So what do we do about it?

I know this question (to go into the light or not) has been bugging me for years now not just because I would like to "know", but also because I've written small articles on the subject which through other people reading them adds some weight of responsibility.

Every day someone asking me whether to go into the light after death or not might produce a different answer. It's not that I change my attitude towards it, it's simply that there cannot be a straight answer.

Why? Because the answer cannot be the answer. It's not what you do but why and how. Intention, consciousness and your overall progress on a path across time and space *have to* create different "right answers" depending on where you are at. If the right answer is attained through the wrong means it becomes the wrong answer.

The path is the way. Life is a dance, not a destination.

[greybeard]

The answer is simple.
At the very root of "spirituality" is the statement" I am that I am" in other words only "God" is and you are that.
All the rest is story telling, the persona on stage, within the cosmic dream--the play of consciousness which seems very real.
The actor has fallen into believing it is a separate individual
So within the play, your belief will take you to your seeming destination on the death of the body.
Thus the importance of preparing for death in a world of seeming duality.

However if Self realisation (enlightenment" has occurred its all irrelevant.
The mystics from their experience point to non-duality --one without a second.
Heaven is within--not out there--nothing is separate in ultimate reality.

So time spent studying non-duality is well spent--it takes away fear and may lead to realisation of your true Self.

Believe what you want--but let go of fear of what happens on the death of the body.

Chris

[Ron Mauer Sr]

My interest in the light trap(?) is more about making good choices, not about fear. Being manipulated does not feel good and feeling good is my goal. If I choose to reincarnate I want the choice to be made while I am in an environment that is nurturing and is free from manipulation.

[onawah]

Also very well put.


Very well put. Many ideas that are exemplary of the human condition... and how we lose energy through "not knowing" but really wanting to find out because well... it is very, very important to get it right.

As a result we live with a mind that is afraid to make a mistake and drains us, sometimes in very subtle ways. So what do we do about it?

I know this question (to go into the light or not) has been bugging me for years now not just because I would like to "know", but also because I've written small articles on the subject which through other people reading them adds some weight of responsibility.

Every day someone asking me whether to go into the light after death or not might produce a different answer. It's not that I change my attitude towards it, it's simply that there cannot be a straight answer.

Why? Because the answer cannot be the answer. It's not what you do but why and how. Intention, consciousness and your overall progress on a path across time and space *have to* create different "right answers" depending on where you are at. If the right answer is attained through the wrong means it becomes the wrong answer.

The path is the way. Life is a dance, not a destination.

[Noelle]

I've been in the "light trap" area of the rabbit hole this week and weekend. I'm not approaching it with fear or paranoia; just think it's extremely wise to question everything that I've learned about life and the afterlife. I came across these two resources and wish to share.

Don't Get Trapped By the After-Life Review Know What Happens When You Die? True Story! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNlyupEBdeE)

Rich West goes over the light trap, the memory wipe, etc. He provides some pointers on how to avoid coming back to this reality. Best advice he gives: When you drop dead (when your big day comes) you better have your "s**t" together -- be awake as possible. Worth watching! (Viewer discretion: loads of adult language).

TrickedByTheLight.com (http://www.trickedbythelight.com/tbtl/index.html)

This site offers some interesting articles, audio interviews, and interview transcripts. It is published by
Wayne Bush, who theorizes that we are in some kind of simulation or virtual reality game.

[Flash]

We are in a prison of sorts, but its a self-imposed one. We are super-powerful beings, of that I have no doubt. And because of that power, we are using it to keep ourselves in this limited state. Right now, we are getting help from all over over the universe. But we are our own worst enemies. There are a lot of alien beings down here right now, walking around in human form and most of them don't know it. They are helping trying to get human beings out of this destructive cycle they have been in. They are working exhaustively to help us.

So many believe the ETs motives are sinister, but the sinister is within us. We are holding ourselves back. They don't want this "hunk of junk" called planet Earth. This physical reality, by the way, is not the principal reality. This is more like the "bottom of the barrel" to reality. It is a trap. The beings are trying to help us wake up to the flaws inherent in the physical reality. If we can reject it, we can get out. But getting super powerful beings (us) to reject it is proving to be very very difficult.

A most strange and puzzling point of view.
You believe we are “super-powerful beings”...in which case what would a super being be doing on this earth if it was so super powerful? And why would a super being be so ignorant to keep itself in this “limited state”? Why would anyone with the smallest brain want to keep itself in a prison if it was so powerful and presumably so advanced. This makes absolutely no sense and has no logic to it.

This thinking is probably the most amazing thing I hear almost everyday on this forum. We are super beings who some how have managed to get ourselves trapped on the earth by some really nasty bad guys who live in the astral....who fool us with white light and force us back onto the earth so we cannot get back to our super powerful buddies living just the other side of the astral ocean ;)

Life is not an episode of Star Wars....so you can relax. No one is lost or being held prisoner against their will...and I am not referring to the physical world.

We come back here simply because our consciousness is not yet at a level where we are able to comprehend the higher realms we so desperately seek to enter.
We are babies at the life game and the sooner we all realize this fact the sooner we will all get on with our true goal and start to work on the growth of our consciousness which comes automatically when living and learning about the laws of the cosmos and of life, and the ways to unify with them, and the freedom which is gained by such actions.

The great trap is simply the extent of the illusion in which we have individually thought our way into.

Take care
Ray

Gosh I miss this member - so Wise and so true.

[chris_walker]

Hi all, I have encountered this video on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzcYYaxQ9HY and I found the comments made by a certain individual quite enthralling. It's about the afterlife deception, but this person seems to want to go to the afterlife and do battle! I've come to that conclusion myself even though I've had no OBEs or NDEs. Here are the comments below.

"I hate to break it to you but you have been had. There are dark beings that trick people into reincarnating. After death they will pose as guides, angels, dead relatives, religious figures, god, etc. In fact I've seen the last one myself. I ran into an entity pretending to be god during an out of body experience. I didn't buy it. They're able to disguise themselves because on the astral plane you can change your shape and size at will. This is something I've done many times and am pretty good at it. If during an out of body experience or after death I wanted to make myself look like Jesus I could do it in the blink of an eye. And if I can do it you know they can do it. So they will impersonate whoever they think will best get you to cooperate.

The guardians you mentioned where no doubt these beings in disguise. Most likely they were your handlers. You know like how sleeper agents have handlers. Oh and as far as the life review don't get me started on that. That is a gigantic red flag. Just go to youtube and do some research about how they use the life review to manipulate people. You'll be amazed at what you find.

As far as your memories coming back it is likely that they allowed your memories of all of your lives on earth and between lives to return because it suited they're purpose. However they most likely blocked memories that would have exposed them for the frauds they are. If all of your memories came back you would know what a scam and waste of time this world is. I know about they're ability to block memories from my own experience. A few weeks ago an entity showed up in a dream and tried to wipe my memory. I was able to resist through sheer force of will. So I know what they are capable off. Fortunately I learned that they use an energy field to wipe your memory. And energy can be blocked with an energy shield. So it's very likely they were only letting you remember your time in the matrix. Your time on earth and between lives. Anything more and you would see what frauds they all are.

The matrix doesn't end with the physical world. It extends well into the afterlife. How far exactly I can't say. What I do know is that they're agenda to deceive us after death is highly organized and highly coordinated. These beings are masters of manipulation and are not to be trusted for a second. The light people see during near death experiences and the feelings of love they experience are all part of the set up. They can induce feelings of love with frequency manipulation. Love is just energy on a very very high frequency. And they know how to manipulate energy.

They go to great lengths to deceive us. But they are not all powerful. I've gotten into dozens of confrontations with dark entities during out of body experiences. They're a total joke and they cannot hurt you. These guys are no different. They know that the use of force doesn't work in the afterlife because over there we have godlike powers. So instead they use every kind of psychological manipulation in the book. And they use our ignorance against us. They want to keep us ignorant of how the afterlife really works so they can continue to manipulate us. That's why they go to great lengths to scare the crap out of people who start having out of body experiences.

They'll appear as your typical demonic looking figures and that's enough to scare most people. I never let it frighten me though and as a result I have acquired a great deal of information about what life is like beyond the physical world. So while these beings may be clever and may be masters of deception behind it all they are just your average malevolent astral beings. And having run into many dark beings that don't hide who they are I can tell you as I said before they really are a joke. I had a bunch of them beat the hell out of me during an OBE once. It didn't hurt and all it did was piss me off. This was back when I was relatively new to astral projection. I've learned a lot since then so now I'm the one who almost always wins in a confrontation.

Because since then I've gotten very good at self defense in the astral. In the past I've literally thrown fire and lightning at them. I can also change my shape to something more intimidating. Such as the hulk but with thick electric spike covered heavy armor and chainsaws for hands. Usually when they know you can do this they will leave you alone. So these guys are far from all powerful. So if they do try to trick you next time just turn into something really scary looking and tell them to take a hike.

---

I've studied hundreds of NDEs and they are very similar to the OBEs I've had. People who are blind during NDEs can see. I'm not blind but I have crappy vision but I have had OBEs where I had excellent vision. I didn't even know what that was like until I had those experiences. Also people who have NDEs report seeing colors that don't exist here. I've had that happen during OBEs as well. People also report that NDEs are hyper real and way more real then the physical world. I've had OBEs that were so real they make this world seem like a bad dream by comparison. People who have NDEs also report that they don't communicate with other entities using words but rather telepathically with concepts and ideas. I've experienced this communicating with other entities during OBEs. So what exactly am I missing here? From what I can tell an NDE seems a lot like an OBE to me.

---

When you leave this world you have the power of a god. Nothing can hurt you. And you can create whatever you want with your mind. The people that are behind all of this use mind games to get you to reincarnate. Because force doesn't work in the afterlife. How can you force a godlike being that can take any form and create whatever it wants to do anything? You can't. I had an OBE yesterday where I caught a lightsaber blade with my bare hands. To my surprise it didn't take my hands clean off. And it didn't hurt either. So if even lightsabers can't harm us in the afterlife I doubt anything else they have is going to be able to either.

I know that neither fire nor electricity can hurt you in the afterlife (sorry religious people but fire doesn't actually hurt or burn you in the afterlife. You will feel the heat but that's it!). Neither can high speed impacts. I've fallen tens of thousands of feet and landed on concrete and even that didn't hurt. So nothing they can do is going to hurt you. It's not like here where they can just have a bunch of armed thugs march around and people get in line.

There are no police states in the afterlife because such a thing would be completely ineffective. There are no empires either for the same reason. There are places that look like hell but even they can't hurt you because fire can't hurt you. Believe me I've been to what people call hell quite a few times and it's a picnic compared to this world. So, no they can't force you to reincarnate. For one thing if you wanted to evade them they could never keep up with you. You can move faster then the flash over there both on the ground and in the air. You can also manifest an energy shield around you that will keep anyone away from you. As long as that shield is up they can't do jack to you. I've used shields to repel entities during OBEs and they are very effective. So you really don't have to worry about it. Just don't go along with them or fall for their mind games. And be prepared to evade them and shield yourself and you will be fine."

[RunningDeer]

What Happens When We Die Exactly?



“One needs to start training now throughout their lifetime to make sure they have a strong will and sense of sovereignty so when they die, they do not get manipulated by these beings to go into any force tunnels or .…”

“Be prepared, NOT scared.”

“…you need to train your soul so that when you die, when you see the tunnel, you don’t go in to it. But you stand in your heart center and say, “I go into the love of the true One Creator now.” You keep focusing and try to go through the stargate of your heart. Not the tunnel. You go inward. Again as always, you go inward. You keep asking to be taken to the true reality.”


*****

Rachel a.k.a. PigtailGurl is a new YouTuber. Here’s the link to her channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseL7_vlsN-AphLiWrdRzyQ/videos), and this is from her “about (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseL7_vlsN-AphLiWrdRzyQ/about)” page:




My channel is dedicated to the pursuit of happiness which is a state of being that comes about when one is whole and balanced and standing in one's power. I will share with you all any knowledge and wisdom I have picked up along my life journey, and hopefully we can learn a few new things together ;-) I look forward to getting to know you in the comments sections and also feel free to let me know if you have any issues you would like to see me address. I am not a doctor but I can certainly offer lots of advice upon your path to wholeness and balance. I also love to delve into freedom and topics of spiritual significance. We are all butterflies waiting to happen.



*****

I like what Rachel has to share. For myself, ’true reality’ is ever changing. For starters, it changes each time I drop a limiting belief and pay attention to the within signals. And a big yes to discovery of one’s strong will and sense of sovereignty.


8_h_FBL91CI

Published on Jun 17, 2017


How deep does the matrix go?

Is the after life another trap?

Should 'angels of love' deceive us?

How does it all fit together?

Share your thoughts here with me as I am truly a seeker.

[onawah]

The stumbling block for many people seems to be the concepts surrounding the term "light".
I've described some of my altered states in other threads, but I will briefly describe some of them here.
When I was in my early 20s, I got into a state called "The White Light" while I was tripping on LSD.
There was indeed a huge amount of light I was experiencing, but it wasn't just light, it was love and joy and intelligence so densely packed that it felt like the energy of a million suns, filling my being and my mind, but it was so consuming that it left me feeling like I was no longer myself, and it was kind of scary.
But that didn't last, and when I came back down the next day, ordinary daylight felt very deficient in comparison, and later on I discovered that my nervous system had not been prepared for that flood of energy and there were long lasting side effects.
I think the problem wasn't so much with the light, it was that I wasn't really prepared for that much energy flooding into my system all at once, which is no doubt why yogis go to great lengths to prepare their bodies for enlightenment experiences.
A few years later I was living at a Zen Center/commune in the mountains of Virginia, where we meditated and chanted long hours every day.
We all got into very blissful states, but I had one very transformative experience that lasted only for a few moments when I saw that all of creation was illuminated from within with the softest, gentlest, most loving and nurturing luminous energy that I identified as the Tao.
It wasn't as intense or blinding as the light when I was tripping, but it was so much more natural and comfortable and just "right".
I sensed that I could go deeper and deeper into it the more I opened myself to it, and perhaps finally just melt into it.
I fell more deeply in love with Nature after that than I ever imagined I could, as I saw Nature as a kind of portal to the Source, and the Sun as the entrance to that portal.
Unfortunately, the Zen Center broke up after I had been there for only one year, and I had to return to city life, which was a horrible culture shock.
A few years later, I had a Near Death Experience when I was hit by a drunk hit and run driver and left for dead in the street.
There were witnesses, and so an ambulance was called and I was taken, unconscious, to a hospital emergency room.
But my body shut down in the ER and I had been given up for dead when two friends arrived who the hospital had called, having found their numbers in my handbag.
They were standing just outside the ER watching through a window.
I was in a horrible, dark and very scary place, totally unaware of my body or where I was when I felt their presence.
There was a light associated with their presence, but it was the essence of their souls that I felt and there was no mistaking who they were.
They were calling me back, and I followed those streaming energies which brought me back into my body and revived me into what is called a "spontaneous remission".
I did not see any tunnel or angels or any kind of beings when I was OBE, but possibly I had just not been there long enough.
But my take on the "false light" at death now is that I will be able to sense who and/or what is false when the time comes, though I want to continue meditating and preparing myself as much as possible for that day.
My favorite way of doing that is to be alone and out in Nature, feeling the oneness and freedom in the pure consciousness of all living things.
I think another stumbling block in people's thinking has to do with believing that they will meet loved ones after death and that that will be the ultimate experience they can have.
I think the best goal is not to sell ourselves short but to go back to Source, and then choose what we want our next step to be.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Everyday I declare my soverignty, at least once, usually more.

"I am sovereign. I choose love. Love is what I Am." Often what feels like electricity flows through my body.

Followed by:

"I give thanks for knowing that I (everyone) am an extesion of Source energy, on Prime Creator's never ending journey of creation and self discovery."

"I give thanks for knowing that the power that creates worlds flows through me. I ask to use this energy with wisdom and much love."

"From the Lord God of my Being, I use this energy that creates worlds to restore my physical body to its natural healthy youthful configuration. So be it. Do it now."

Some thoughts about the Light Trap:

Avoid it. Go the other way.

Affirm "I go home to Source." Affirm this every day.

If one gets trapped and goes before a board of entities, possibly wanting to appear as authority figures, possibly the "Lords of Karma" who may attempt to trick one into giving permission to enter another cycle of incarnation, consider doing this:

I say, "I do not consent."

I say, "I go home to Source."

They say, "You are out of order."

I say, "Who the hell are you? What will you do now, take away my drivers license?"

No need to call upon others to help. This may be a test of claiming your own power. Call upon the power within you and command "Set me free now."

[Swan]

Dear Onawah, sometimes the Thank you button just isn´t enough. Thank you so much for sharing.

[we-R-one]

Satire

So this morning I had to run some errands and quickly caved to a diet coke craving. Ya, ya I know, it converts to formaldehyde in the body…we’re all gonna die some day of something…oh that’s right, we don’t really die!

Speaking of that… so I go through the drive thru of a McDonald's, pay for my soda at the first window and as I’m pulling up to the second window there’s this loud crash. I look off to the front right of me onto the main road and see where two cars just smashed into one another. Smoke is billowing from one car, while the other car has its horn blaring non-stop. My hand is over my mouth in shock as I feel badly for those involved, just knowing the rest of their day is ruined. It’s a four lane road, two lanes on each side with a middle lane people use to turn into business’ on either side. The one car was attempting to cross the first two lanes by turning left and didn’t see the other car coming into the middle lane to turn into a business. Anyways, the McDonald ladies were quite entertaining…. as one is snapping pictures of the scene out the drive up window, the older lady of the two, says, Ooh that happens there all the time!!! Shaking her head in disapproval she goes on to say that they’ve witnessed some doozies while working the drive thru window…She says, ‘people insist on trying to turn left out of the shopping center to beat the light, if they’d just go around to the traffic light they wouldn’t get hit!’ She hands me my diet coke(light on the ice) and as I began to drive off, she shouts wagging her finger, ‘go to the light, make sure you always go to the light!!!’

:jester: ROFL

Moral of the story….Hey, even the McDonald’s employees understand..If you don’t ‘go to the light’ you run the risk of making a poor choice and having a wreck, could this be an example of the hologram in play, lol….just sayin…..

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2015-02/27/5/campaign_images/webdr15/22-secrets-mcdonalds-employees-will-never-tell-you-2-13557-1425032004-0_dblbig.jpg

[greybeard]

Just a thought ortwo.
The situation immediately after leaving thebody is quite different---for one thing you are no longer physical.
You are therefore no longer male or female --you may not at first be aware of that of course.
There are other changes going on without doubt.

I doubt if you have any choice about going or not going into the light.

Another consideration is the words of Jesus
"There are many houses in my Fathers Mansion"

This is why it is important to have a positive belief about the hereafter.
The mind of the unenlightened will take you to the thought of destination, at least temporarily (according to one sage)
Whatever the rules of the earth no longer apply---gravity whats that to a spirit body?

NDE (Near death experiences) have similar account.
The Love - the re run of the life spent as seen through those who have been affected by the personality--as though you were tha person.
Seeing thing 360 degrees.

We have all been there--nothing to fear--we are back on earth but will leave again.
If we graduated to enlightenment then we will not return except by choice to help the un-enlightened.

Not saying Im right---its a may be so.

Chris

[DNA]

Just a thought ortwo.
The situation immediately after leaving thebody is quite different---for one thing you are no longer physical.
You are therefore no longer male or female --you may not at first be aware of that of course.
There are other changes going on without doubt.

I doubt if you have any choice about going or not going into the light.

Another consideration is the words of Jesus
"There are many houses in my Fathers Mansion"

This is why it is important to have a positive belief about the hereafter.
The mind of the unenlightened will take you to the thought of destination, at least temporarily (according to one sage)
Whatever the rules of the earth no longer apply---gravity whats that to a spirit body?

NDE (Near death experiences) have similar account.
The Love - the re run of the life spent as seen through those who have been affected by the personality--as though you were tha person.
Seeing thing 360 degrees.

We have all been there--nothing to fear--we are back on earth but will leave again.
If we graduated to enlightenment then we will not return except by choice to help the un-enlightened.

Not saying Im right---its a may be so.

Chris


Agreed with the "many houses" statement.

I will add to that.

Folks get hung up on consciousness being defined from the perspective of a single point of integration.

Dreams have taught me otherwise, and there is quite a bit of literature to back this up as well.

Existing in the physical does not mean you lose consciousness on the "other" side.

Thinking of this in a physics term may help. It is quite understood that light can exist as a photon or a wave, but the real understanding comes when one realizes that light exists as both simultaneously. We can divide our consciousness into varying models with greater or lesser degrees of consciousness, each capable of acting independently and of having senses that think and record data simultaneously and at some point there is an integration of the data.


Many houses indeed, and it is my guess that we can exist in a multitude of them simultaneously as well as exist on the "other" side and reincarnate simultaneously.

Time is often thought of as the ultimate limitation when trying to understood what life on the other side is like, my personal method for over coming this is through acknowledging multiple points of existence at the same time. :)

[we-R-one]

I doubt if you have any choice about going or not going into the light.

Another consideration is the words of Jesus
"There are many houses in my Fathers Mansion"

Yes and I interpret that to mean 'many dimensions'. It's my understanding that dimensions are created by beliefs as beliefs vibrate at a frequency(Dr. Bruce Lipton), so what you believe determines where you go, so there is no wrong answer, it's up to each individual based on the choices they make.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Going to the light is one option. Maintaining a strong intent to return to Source is another.


I would really like to know which is the better choice.


Currently I feel that maintaining a strong intent to return to Source is a better choice. It would be interesting to hear more opinions about these options.


Rumor has it that going to the light tunnel leads to a memory erasure station and being put in front of a few authority figures (imposters?) who manipulate you to give your permission to be put in a lifetime that they recommend. Perhaps a lifetime that suits their purpose but not yours.


My personal experience in a dream: I was exploring somewhere off planet and discovered a room with a closed door. Curious me, I opened the door and went inside. The door slammed shut behind me and I realized this was a trap. There was a loud buzzing sound and small robots, maybe Grays, were in the room. I called to friendly ETs for help to escape. No help came. When I called upon my own personal power, I was immediately set free. (Maybe a lesson here.) My intuition says this trap was a memory erasure station.

[DNA]

Going to the light is one option. Maintaining a strong intent to return to Source is another.


I would really like to know which is the better choice.


Currently I feel that maintaining a strong intent to return to Source is a better choice. It would be interesting to hear more opinions about these options.


Rumor has it that going to the light tunnel leads to a memory erasure station and being put in front of a few authority figures (imposters?) who manipulate you to give your permission to be put in a lifetime that they recommend. Perhaps a lifetime that suits their purpose but not yours.


My personal experience in a dream: I was exploring somewhere off planet and discovered a room with a closed door. Curious me, I opened the door and went inside. The door slammed shut behind me and I realized this was a trap. There was a loud buzzing sound and small robots, maybe Grays, were in the room. I called to friendly ETs for help to escape. No help came. When I called upon my own personal power, I was immediately set free. (Maybe a lesson here.) My intuition says this trap was a memory erasure station.


This 11:00 minute video Trumps all conjecture with soul harvesters and L Ron Hubbard's talk of a soul trap on this planet.

If you watch it and want to argue that is fine, but my suggestion would be to watch it before you come to a conclusion, it is the greatest single piece of data for those to consider when trying to come to terms with this thread's aim.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNbdUEqDB-k

[avid]

BBC Worldwide blocked viewing this video in UK for copyright reasons.

[DNA]

BBC Worldwide blocked viewing this video in UK for copyright reasons.


It's the Near Death Experience of Pam Reynolds.

I'm of the opinion that this one is unique to most stories.
This story has a certain "holy sh!t" factor to it.
Pam was diagnosed with a aneurysm, one so bad it was considered to be terminal, it was far inside of her brain.
It was really big. Pam was told to put her things in order. But then something unexpected happened, she was told a surgeon in Phoenix Arizona at the Barrrow Neurological center had a procedure and she was the perfect candidate. The procedure required that Pam's heart and brain be stopped, her body temperature cooled and her blood was to be drawn out of her body. Pam was to die under controlled circumstances while her brain was hooked up to an advanced EKG monitor that would detect any brainwave activity. Pam was to be in the condition for an hour, Pam would be clinically dead for an entire hour!
The procedure took place and Pam watched the operation from a vantage point above her body, she could recall the conversations that took place between the medical professionals and recall the tools used for the procedure and the full extent of the procedure of which the actual details had never been explained.
But what is more, Pam then had a Near Death Experience. The experience was quite pronounced and I will recommend for folks to listen to the NDE from Pam herself.
It is worth noting that the surgeon who operated on Pam after listening to her NDE stated that she had absolutely NO BRAIN WAVE ACTIVITY, as such whatever organ she was using to perceive was not her PHYSICAL BRAIN, nor her PHYSICAL EARS, nor her PHYSICAL EYES.

[ThePythonicCow]

BBC Worldwide blocked viewing this video in UK for copyright reasons.

I uploaded a copy of it, as an MP4 video file, to my website: Pam_Reynolds_NDE.mp4 (http://thepythoniccow.us/Pam_Reynolds_NDE.mp4).

[greybeard]

Dr Eben Alexander NDEis also a classic

No brain activity--when he returned to life he should have been a vegetable.
He is a nuero surgeon and did not believe in spirituality before this event.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbkgj5J91hE

In this intimate and powerful re-examination of his best-selling book "Proof of Heaven," Dr. Alexander looks at the past two and a half years of his life spent in trying to reconcile his rich spiritual experience with contemporary physics and cosmology. He is convinced that his remarkable near-death journey is totally consistent with the leading edges of scientific understanding today. 2014. This presentation was part of the 128th Summer Convention of the Theosophical Society in America. The theme for the conference was "Science and the Experience of Consciousness," which brought together such distinguished scientists as physicist Amit Goswami, consciousness researcher and psychologist Dean Radin, physicist and psychic researcher Russell Targ, neurosurgeon Eben Alexander, and more. 2014. Available on DVD at: http://questbooks.com/index.php?route

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

This 11:00 minute video Trumps all conjecture with soul harvesters and L Ron Hubbard's talk of a soul trap on this planet.

If you watch it and want to argue that is fine, but my suggestion would be to watch it before you come to a conclusion, it is the greatest single piece of data for those to consider when trying to come to terms with this thread's aim.

Yes I've seen this before, it's a great piece of evidence (for spiritual reality), but I'm not sure I follow. There's nothing in it that supports any notion of harvesting or soul traps.

[Hervé]

This 11:00 minute video Trumps all conjecture with soul harvesters and L Ron Hubbard's talk of a soul trap on this planet.

If you watch it and want to argue that is fine, but my suggestion would be to watch it before you come to a conclusion, it is the greatest single piece of data for those to consider when trying to come to terms with this thread's aim.

Yes I've seen this before, it's a great piece of evidence (for spiritual reality), but I'm not sure I follow. There's nothing in it that supports any notion of harvesting or soul traps.
Check again when Pam mentions the "pull"... she is out of body, body is clinically dead -- no sign of life -- yet her "astral body" is being tugged at... some call such a "tractor beam" as used in "UFO/ET" abductions... which, to me, is strong evidence that a "soul" can be scooped up/snatched/harvested with little resistance from the "owner."

[greybeard]

This 11:00 minute video Trumps all conjecture with soul harvesters and L Ron Hubbard's talk of a soul trap on this planet.

If you watch it and want to argue that is fine, but my suggestion would be to watch it before you come to a conclusion, it is the greatest single piece of data for those to consider when trying to come to terms with this thread's aim.

Yes I've seen this before, it's a great piece of evidence (for spiritual reality), but I'm not sure I follow. There's nothing in it that supports any notion of harvesting or soul traps.
Check again when Pam mentions the "pull"... she is out of body, body is clinically dead -- no sign of life -- yet her "astral body" is being tugged at... some call such a "tractor beam" as used in "UFO/ET" abductions... which, to me, is strong evidence that a "soul" can be scooped up/snatched/harvested with little resistance from the "owner."

Yes but!!! laughing.
There is no indication where the pull is leading to, coming from, leading to.
We are not going to agree on this---but thats just fine--I know what I would rather believe, being as there is strong evidence your thoughts take you to your "final" destination.

Chris