Is the white light after we die a trap?

[DNA]

This 11:00 minute video Trumps all conjecture with soul harvesters and L Ron Hubbard's talk of a soul trap on this planet.

If you watch it and want to argue that is fine, but my suggestion would be to watch it before you come to a conclusion, it is the greatest single piece of data for those to consider when trying to come to terms with this thread's aim.

Yes I've seen this before, it's a great piece of evidence (for spiritual reality), but I'm not sure I follow. There's nothing in it that supports any notion of harvesting or soul traps.
My point being that this video lends credence towards their not being any harvesting or soul traps.

[Hervé]

The point here is that a "soul" can be PULLED ! Whether through friends/family calls or foes mimicking those same friends/family.

[greybeard]

The point here is that a "soul" can be PULLED ! Whether through friends/family calls or foes mimicking those same friends/family.

Yes but she wasn't.
Honestly we could go pulling up all kind of videos "facts" assumptions rationale to prove any point of view on this.

All I can say is its a may be so.

As usual being single minded---There is only one consciousness---so what is there to pull this One without a second.
But there again thats my opinion--smiling.

Chris

[Hervé]

Then, there is this other point: Why was Pam shoved back into a body she didn't want to get back into ???


That's "incarceration" not "incarnation."

[O Donna]

Yes but!!! laughing.
There is no indication where the pull is leading to, coming from, leading to.
We are not going to agree on this---but thats just fine--I know what I would rather believe, being as there is strong evidence your thoughts take you to your "final" destination.

Chris

Reminds me of the Rorschach test and tests like it....

Of course there is no final destination when it comes to thoughts/ perceptions as most people know they change through the function of time.

What do you see? ;)

https://puzzle.queryhome.com/?qa=blob&qa_blobid=4905695162141139016

[greybeard]

Thats Good O Donna
Just for the sake of not going into great detail i "" final,
Im just having a little fun here.
You could say im brain washed but for thirty years daily, Ive been listening to, reading. watching and on several occasion was in satsang with enlightened souls
From absorbing the teaching I have every confidence, at a very deep level, that leaving the body on exiting this life, is 100% safe.

Chris

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68916-Don-t-go-into-the-light-Discussion-thread&p=1226095#post1226095




This 11:00 minute video Trumps all conjecture with soul harvesters and L Ron Hubbard's talk of a soul trap on this planet.

If you watch it and want to argue that is fine, but my suggestion would be to watch it before you come to a conclusion, it is the greatest single piece of data for those to consider when trying to come to terms with this thread's aim.

Yes I've seen this before, it's a great piece of evidence (for spiritual reality), but I'm not sure I follow. There's nothing in it that supports any notion of harvesting or soul traps.
Check again when Pam mentions the "pull"... she is out of body, body is clinically dead -- no sign of life -- yet her "astral body" is being tugged at... some call such a "tractor beam" as used in "UFO/ET" abductions... which, to me, is strong evidence that a "soul" can be scooped up/snatched/harvested with little resistance from the "owner."

I'm afraid I heartily and respectfully disagree. At death, this 'pulling' on a soul into the spirit realm is a purely natural process, no more, no less - like an air bubble on the bottom of a swimming pool rising to the surface. The bubble is not being pulled. It's being liberated by buoyancy, from that which previously contained it.

The 'tunnel of light' that many report is just the transition from the dense material of earth into the lighter reality beyond. It's a dimensional doorway. There is certainly no evidence here, or anywhere I've ever seen or heard of, that suggests the presence of alien tractor beams waiting to snare us after death.

This theory is just another psyop in my opinion, like the flat earth, and almost as daft. It's to ingrain disempowerment. It does that by trying to convince people that there is no better reality beyond this one. And death is no escape...

It seems part of the Transhumanist agenda to me, which seeks to inculcate a sense of weakness and inferiority on people. They don't want people believing in spirituality. They'd much rather keep us ignorant, obedient, and living in fear – as a robot. They want us worshipping technology. It's the only path to take in order to become immortal.

[when we already are] :facepalm:


My point being that this video lends credence towards their not being any harvesting or soul traps.

Thanks for the clarification - and totally agree. Sorry for the misunderstanding!

[greybeard]

Im in complete agreement Star Mariner.
The obvious question is
In who's interest is it to install fear?
I think you answered that.

Chris

[DNA]

This 11:00 minute video Trumps all conjecture with soul harvesters and L Ron Hubbard's talk of a soul trap on this planet.

If you watch it and want to argue that is fine, but my suggestion would be to watch it before you come to a conclusion, it is the greatest single piece of data for those to consider when trying to come to terms with this thread's aim.

Yes I've seen this before, it's a great piece of evidence (for spiritual reality), but I'm not sure I follow. There's nothing in it that supports any notion of harvesting or soul traps.
Check again when Pam mentions the "pull"... she is out of body, body is clinically dead -- no sign of life -- yet her "astral body" is being tugged at... some call such a "tractor beam" as used in "UFO/ET" abductions... which, to me, is strong evidence that a "soul" can be scooped up/snatched/harvested with little resistance from the "owner."


I can understand the logic behind what you are saying, but I'm of the opinion that this "pull" is a built in fail safe to help direct us where we are supposed to go.

I'm also of the opinion that if you so choose you can consciously fight this pull and stay here on earth in the dimension you lived in.

My point on why the video argues against a soul catcher/harvester would be "why would they bring Pam back?". Why would the powers that harvest souls and trap our consciousness let Pam's go after she had already crossed over to the other side? The other side of the tunnel that according to the soul harvestor/soul trap crowd is in fact a prison for souls. If they had Pam in their prison why would they let her out?

Pam's experience changed her for the better. Wouldn't the experience have negatively effected her had she gone to soul prison inc.?
Pam spoke of being in the breath of God as she stood within the pulsing white light that bathed her as she finished crossing the initial tunnel.

Her recollection of this is quite powerful and coveys quite a bit of personal assuredness on her part.



And on a personal account I've witnessed this tunnel opening up quite a few times. I can personally attest to the light spilling through it having a healing quality to it. The beings who show up to help the disscarnate spirit pass over have never had an agenda or shown me that they were anything other than benevolent. They never "force" the spirit to pass through the tunnel, but instead free will is always recognized and respected. You can stay a ghost on earth as long as you wish to.

I don't claim to know it all so I place my experiences in the "believe it or not" category I suppose, but I've always been a haunted person. I've always attracted ghosts and spirits. As a teenager I would do this and through my dreams I would help some of these souls find their higher selfs to continue their reincarnational path. This wasn't something I was consciously setting out to do, it was something that would just happen.

These threads are experiential testimony's more than anything, How To See A Ghost For Yourself
(http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21695-How-To-See-A-Ghost-For-Yourself)
and Parasitic Non-Organic Multidimensional Beings (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21614-Parasitic-Non-Organic-Multidimensional-Beings/page15)
.
I'm not saying it is all rainbows and unicorns. I've seen some pretty nasty stuff. As I grew into my twenties and early thirties I began to be able to see ghosts at will, and they are all around us constantly. I thought it was just myself who was a haunted person but I can amend that to include most "empathic" people are haunted persons. The more empathic and the more you are capable of "feeling" emotions, the more these folks like to be around you because they can then at least affect you on some level.

[DNA]

Then, there is this other point: Why was Pam shoved back into a body she didn't want to get back into ???


That's "incarceration" not "incarnation."


Pam is alive and well as a higher being at the same time she is alive and well inside of her physical body.

If her higher self asked and or gave an okay to her Uncle to push her back into her body then there was no incarceration.
The existance we experience now is not the totality of our being.

Our being is by and far much greater than we are allowed to fully experience as being in the flesh or as the ghost that initially leaves the flesh.

You do not become rejoined to your greater totality until you have crossed over to the other side.

[O Donna]

Thats Good O Donna
Just for the sake of not going into great detail i "" final,
Im just having a little fun here.
You could say im brain washed but for thirty years daily, Ive been listening to, reading. watching and on several occasion was in satsang with enlightened souls
From absorbing the teaching I have every confidence, at a very deep level, that leaving the body on exiting this life, is 100% safe.

Chris

For sure, as safe as anything can be.

Often times what we fear in an afterlife is similar to what we fear now though the ornaments may vary.

Fear not the shadow that leads or follows for appearances are deceiving. And fear not deception as even jokes have this element.

[Hervé]

Then, there is this other point: Why was Pam shoved back into a body she didn't want to get back into ???

That's "incarceration" not "incarnation."
If her higher self asked and or gave an okay to her Uncle to push her back into her body then there was no incarceration.
[...]
That's a very big assumption :bigfish:

All I know from her testimony is that, as a "soul" she sure didn't want to go back into that body. The end result is that she got shoved back into it... not from "freewill."


Without any "if," all I know from her testimony is that she experienced a physical "pull" on her "soul/astral body" and she didn't want to get back into it but got shoved back in.



That's the data.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Can anyone present a case where maintaining the following strong intentions may not be beneficial:


"I am sovereign. I do not consent to manipulation."
"I go home to Source."

[DNA]

That's a very big assumption :bigfish:


It's conjecture not assumption. I've met my higher self, and if I have a higher self what would make me so special? I'm not, therefore everyone has a higher self.

You my friend are the one making the assumptions. You have made your mind up that there is a soul harvester and as such you seek to doctor the evidence to fit your preconceptions. In my opinion you need to let go of the idea that you know what is going on. You need to allow for new data to affect your opinion instead of attempting to make the data serve preconceptions and in my opinion misconceptions. :ballchain:



All I know from her testimony is that, as a "soul" she sure didn't want to go back into that body. The end result is that she got shoved back into it... not from "freewill."
A baby if allowed to would stay in the womb and never leave, this would eventually cause the demise of the baby and the mother carrying it.

Is it not better that the baby would get a necessary push so as to enter the cold and uncomfortable world when it could have continued residing in what it considered heaven?

[Hervé]

That's a very big assumption :bigfish: It's conjecture not assumption. I've met my higher self, and if I have a higher self...
[...]
I guess the expressed duality here is being completely disregarded... oh, well, no point in pursuing this further.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

I'm also of the opinion that if you so choose you can consciously fight this pull and stay here on earth in the dimension you lived in.

Absolutely. Anyone can resist the light if they want - but then you risk getting stuck here. An earthbound spirit is precisely what a ghost is. Now that is the trap, if there is one.

Worse still is falling into the lower astral realms, where the vibrations are heavy and oppressive. It's a place of ignorance and denial and negativity. Could this be another layer of the psyop? Are there nefarious reasons why the insidious 'powers that be' don't want people ascending to the light, and instead staying behind to join lost, wandering souls in the astral? One wonders...

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Can anyone present a case where maintaining the following strong intentions may not be beneficial:

"I am sovereign. I do not consent to manipulation."
"I go home to Source."

The only manipulation at work is that wrought by man, here on the earth-side of life. Spirit is pure, spirit is eternal. Source is not a place, it simply IS. And you're already source anyway.

Sorry Ron, I just don't see it!

The goal of life is to better oneself, in a nutshell - to experience as much as we can experience, travel as far as we can travel, love all that we can love, and just be all that we possibly can be. If there is a summit to it all, a so-called place we refer to as 'Source', then I doubt we'd be able to magic ourselves there. There are spiritual laws that cannot be circumvented (eg, you can't become a Christ in a day). In other words, to reach the destination you have to walk the road.

I'd imagine that if it were possible to 'go back to source' at death, then every soul, upon leaving the restrictions of their flesh body, would be aware of it, and go ahead and do so. But then the spirit world would be a very empty place. And the earth would be a very empty place too, as no souls would be coming to populate it. They'd all have gone home after their last lives. In fact, the universe would be empty and lifeless and there'd be nothing anywhere, not so much as a star in the vacuum, and not even a vacuum. The whole point was to separate from source, and create ALL.THIS.

:heart:

[DNA]

I'm also of the opinion that if you so choose you can consciously fight this pull and stay here on earth in the dimension you lived in.

Absolutely. Anyone can resist the light if they want - but then you risk getting stuck here. An earthbound spirit is precisely what a ghost is. Now that is the trap, if there is one.

Worse still is falling into the lower astral realms, where the vibrations are heavy and oppressive. It's a place of ignorance and denial and negativity. Could this be another layer of the psyop? Are there nefarious reasons why the insidious 'powers that be' don't want people ascending to the light, and instead staying behind to join lost, wandering souls in the astral? One wonders...


Indeed, I believe something along the very same lines.

I believe there is a difference between what we commonly refer to as Shadow beings and what we would call ghosts.

Ghosts are usually fresh from their death. Most ghosts I would run into have not been dead very long, in one case a ghost I helped cross over was shown to me by the angelic administrator who had come to accompany her crossing, or rather a perfect picture of her face outlined in energy on my ceiling. The next day I was looking through the classifieds for used cars in the local newspaper and quite accidentally opened the obituaries. There staring back at me was the exact face of the woman who's face had been outlined on my ceiling the night before.

Shadow beings from my experience tend to be old, and corded by other older more powerful shadow beings above them.

My only experience in so far as duality is concerned with the afterlife is that these dark shadow beings who are seen only because they are the absence of light are the antithesis of what is at the end of the tunnel of light.

If a ghost wonders too long and is then approached and coerced by a shadow being they may be in for a very long and dark existence, to be a parasite that feeds on human energy, and to then have other parasites feed upon them.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

All I know from her testimony is that, as a "soul" she sure didn't want to go back into that body. The end result is that she got shoved back into it... not from "freewill."


No force acted against freewill, it was again just natural law in operation. Every single time we enter sleep, we separate from our bodies. All of us. Usually we float close by – you have to be conscious and quite skilled to do any more than that or go very far. I have done this several times whilst being consciously aware at the same time. That's an Out of Body Experience. There are many on this forum who have experienced this.

When this happens, I don't really want to come back into my body either! But I do, because I have no choice in the matter. Freewill doesn't play a part. The soul is connected to the body by a spiritual tether, some call it the 'silver cord'. As long as we live, this cord stays intact. It won't let us separate. Only after death, and during 'second death', does it naturally break, and that happens only when we fully transition into the next realm.

The reason Pam came back, like all NDErs come back, is multifold. More lessons to be learned, more tasks to perform, or pledges to fulfil (like raising children) etc. And also to bring back a message to a humanity that is losing hope. This is important to take note of: many NDErs are given a message purely to bring us comfort. But the main reason, the bottom-line reason is, her cord didn't break, because she wasn't dead and she wasn't going to die. Her survival was probably pre-determined.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

This discussion makes me wonder about free will and choices. Apparently the soul makes choices that may override personal choices. Sure would be nice to have a discussion with high self. Partnerships are much better with clear communication.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

This discussion makes me wonder about free will and choices. Apparently the soul makes choices that may override personal choices.

I'm positive that it does. It is still technically 'us', just a way bigger us.

One vague analogy might be looking back over one's life and seeing what we might do differently. Let's say we actually could go back in time, say thirty years, and make a different choice. That would be an example of 'you' overriding another 'you' (but the you of 30 years ago). But it's still you! The only difference is time. The 'you' of now has a lot more information than the you of then.

[And one's younger self would probably still think it knows better than you!]:idea:

Your higher self is beyond even time, and space, so you can bet your bottom dollar it knows infinitely more than the 'you' down here in this incarnation. Trust your higher self. It knows better! After all, you are not the real you, but one small aspect of it, a persona.

On the theme of this thread, would it make sense that 'you' tricked yourself into coming here?

[Ron Mauer Sr]

My question was really about communication and enhancing a partnership. Going into the light tunnel or not going, is a major decision.
Similar to a parent guiding a child, guidance works best when the parent offers the reason for an overriding decision.
To go or not to go would be a wonderful discussion with high self. No imposters allowed.
I think *clear* communication may be our (my?) biggest issue to navigate this reality. Maybe there is something impeding communication.

[Hervé]

Before leaving this thread, I'd like to make it clear what I mean by "duality" which seems to be lost on most everyone:

When one "talks to"/"communicate with" one's "higher self;" right there, there is a DUALITY... there is a "TWO" communicating with each other... not a single one talking to itself... savvy?

In other words, one cannot communicate or meet with one's higher self unless that higher self is a poseur or an imposter, i.e somebody else than oneself! and EXTERNAL to oneself... one is oneself whether higher or lower and has no need to communicate or receive communication from either since one is IT in whole.

Accordingly, a "pull" out of, or a shove back in, a body is not a sign of freewill nor of sovereignty.

Ciao!

[DNA]

:dog:
Before leaving this thread, I'd like to make it clear what I mean by "duality" which seems to be lost on most everyone:

When one "talks to"/"communicate with" one's "higher self;" right there, there is a DUALITY... there is a "TWO" communicating with each other... not a single one talking to itself... savvy?

In other words, one cannot communicate or meet with one's higher self unless that higher self is a poseur or an imposter, i.e somebody else than oneself! and EXTERNAL to oneself... one is oneself whether higher or lower and has no need to communicate or receive communication from either since one is IT in whole.

Accordingly, a "pull" out of, or a shove back in, a body is not a sign of freewill nor of sovereignty.

Ciao!


Is a tide pool separate from the ocean? And if so for how long?

Although there were many points I brought up to argue your objections on the Pam Reynolds case you appear to want to hammer on the point that her soul was given a push back into the body.
I'm not aware of all the rules involved in such things Herve, as neither are you my friend.
I can open with conjecture though.
We speak of freewill but understand this, freewill as far as what I've been told only exists on this side of the veil.

When you cross the tunnel of light you are in the "mansion" (borrowed from the many mansions phrase Greybeard brought up earlier) your vibrations are attuned to. Your vibrations are who you are and when on the other side there is a understanding of the house rules. The house rules are more of a understanding of being and once you have achieved this there are no deviations in terms of harming others or really even yourself, nor would you want to.

When Pam was standing at the precipice of the tunnel accompanied by her uncle her body had been awakened.
This also brings into account certain rules that may apply.
In response to your duality question I feel I answered it in a post earlier but I'll attempt to do so in a different manner.

Your question hints at something that a duality explanation is simply not going to cut it.
Your higher self is like the hub of a wheel with millions of spokes coming out of it.
If string theory is a real thing, and I think it is, this single manifestation of yourself is magnified by millions if not billions of possible you's.
Now throw in thousands of incarnations of different manifestations each with it's own millions or billions of potentialities and you get my drift.
How can a piece of bark complain about where it grows to the tree it is attached to or the forest of trees it belongs to?
I try not to make my posts too long, but I've got more points to make along this line of thinking.
StarMariner's Post #585 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68916-Don-t-go-into-the-light-Discussion-thread&p=1226147&viewfull=1#post1226147) really has some great points I absolutely agree with as well.
Try not to adhere to strongly to your signature and we may get some where. :)

Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

[Bo Atkinson]

:dog:


When one "talks to"/"communicate with" one's "higher self;" right there, there is a DUALITY... there is a "TWO" communicating with each other... not a single one talking to itself... savvy?

In other words, one cannot communicate or meet with one's higher self unless that higher self is a poseur or an imposter, i.e somebody else than oneself! and EXTERNAL to oneself... one is oneself whether higher or lower and has no need to communicate or receive communication from either since one is IT in whole.




Your question hints at something that a duality explanation is simply not going to cut it.
Your higher self is like the hub of a wheel with millions of spokes coming out of it.[/QUOTE]


My closest experience of the "real me", or the "realer me" is more singular of focus and not aware of the earth-bound-me or a past-life-me... Just as my eath-bound-me maintains a linear time track and does not literally-physically "go back in time" to replay a personal memory. Rather a "flash back memory" can be quite absorbing at times, but not two separate me-selves.

Likewise, the transition out of human life does not seem a likely contract negotiation or a decision to make, on the spot. Just as with our night dreams, I expect that it is rather the momentum, of our last life-focus, which determines the outcome of death or transition.

This is where I see daydreaming affecting night dreaming, as an interplay, to work up awareness levels of both, over time and also to where death will occur with the maximum awareness possible. Where increased awareness at all times is the only assurance of truer will freedoms.

[ThePythonicCow]

Dr Eben Alexander NDEis also a classic
Well, there is one advantage, at least, to someone reposting the same video more than once, over the years.

When someone else finally gets around to viewing it for the first time, they can search back for the earlier posts, and thank it more than once.

:)

Dr. Alexander's meeting his already deceased sister, while he was on his journey, that he had no way in this ordinary life up to that point of knowing had even ever existed, and then later learning that he had that sister, and then confirming that it was exactly that sister whom he had met while on his journey, was an unforgettable bit of testimony.

Thanks!

[ThePythonicCow]

There is no indication where the pull is leading to, coming from, leading to.
We are not going to agree on this---but thats just fine--I know what I would rather believe, being as there is strong evidence your thoughts take you to your "final" destination.

I continue to verbalize my views on these matters thusly:
It's turtles layers, all the way down, and up, at least as far as the eye can see.
Self-organizing, self-replicating layers, where each layer has its own ordering and ways of being. Each layer is constrained by the "physical" limits of the lower layers out of which it is formed, and is guided by the higher layers that are formed above from that layer's entities (Susanne Langer would say "atoms" here), but these constraints are minimal, and this guidance is often subtle, even as at the same time they can be powerful and compelling.

Trying to understand any one of these layers, in terms of some other layer, is a most futile and frustrating endeavor.

As one common, in our present time at least, example of this futility, trying to understand "consciousness" or "mind" using the physical sciences of matter and energy (whereby "energy" here I mean that which conventional physicists measure by how it moves physical matter), is an impossible endeavor. A termite in an old wooden chess piece once used by Bobby Fischer has as a perhaps better chance of understanding one of Fischer's finest chess games.

Perhaps the UFO/Aliens controversy is in part a parlor game of the elite, to distract us from higher level beings, present in and around us.

[greybeard]

I agree Paul
Im saying its all levels quite often.
Im glad you got something out of the Dr Eben Alexander video.
It really is a classic.
A respected member of the medical fraternity's account of his NDE is worth taking heed of.
I do repeat post some videos for my own benefit and Im aware that there are new members and guests that may not have seen them before.
Im aware that "you" cant convince anyone, so just to share---some may appreciate, some may even laugh, its just what I do.

Best wishes
chris

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Maybe there is something impeding communication.

The greatest impediment is the spiritual blockage within ourselves. "And dust was thrown into the eyes of man.." It was said that very long ago (antediluvian) Man was robbed of his spiritual gifts because he perverted them. The connection he enjoyed was thoroughly abused (he went to the dark side), so it was removed. It was time for Man to experience true separation (part of the lesson, and part of the planetary karma). His sensitivity was dialled back, third eye was closed, and amnesia enacted. It all goes back to Atlantis. Everything we are, really goes back to Atlantis. But yes Ron, in my opinion, there is a blockage, and it's coded into our DNA.

We can tap these gifts however, and unlock them (though it ain't easy!). But it's been known for a long time. That's what the Mystery Schools were. And that's what Eastern mystics have been doing all this time. For you and me, today, it's a little tougher! (unless you're born with the gift).



Accordingly, a "pull" out of, or a shove back in, a body is not a sign of freewill nor of sovereignty.


I don't disagree. I've heard and read many examples of this. In a lot of these cases, the NDEr's life is in the balance - it could really go either way. Picture paramedics frantically working on the body, trying to resuscitate it. And when the body does revive, as it did with Pam, it's like waking up in the morning. She had to come back, because the operation was a success. And if it requires a nudge, even a forcible nudge, to send it back – then yes, I would agree, that's an example of violating a being's freewill.

But in my opinion, far too much emphasis is placed on sovereignty and free will. Do we always know what is best for us? Quite as Ron touched at - does the infant child stepping out in the road - to reach for its balloon - know what's best for it? Of course not. The parent who grabs it by the arm before it can walk into traffic is violating its free will – but it must, because it knows better.

There's a limit to free will. Beings higher than us are standing by to course-correct our many follies. If they did not, arrogance will be our undoing.

Hervé, I think you're a champion fella. Your work is superb and I always read your threads. I love you man, but I am somewhat puzzled why you buy into this 'theory'. It almost feels as though some would rather believe in it, like they'd sooner be victims of a giant multi-thousand year trick orchestrated by demonic aliens... Why?

Fortunately, it isn't true.

We have hundreds of years of stories pertaining to the human life/death cycle, and what the Spirit World is really like. Personally I am deeply read on the subject, and have been involved in the study of spirituality, mysticism and metaphysics for decades. Also I have many, many personal experiences, OBE's among them. Like you DNA (post #574) I've seen the tunnel too - I've witnessed and participated in 'releases', where a trapped (ghost) spirit is released from earthbound limbo and passes over into spirit. I even saw his death - He wanted to share his story before he moved on (he was murdered, thrown overboard from a yacht and drowned - this was years ago but I can still picture it like it was my own memory). When he died, he initially refused the Light because he was terrified of where he would end up (religious conditioning). The point is, I know this subject, I know it Hervé like you know yours. It will always seem like 'speculation' to those that don't know, because I cannot show anything tangible to prove it. That's the trouble.

And yet I wonder... To those who argue this corner, of reincarnation traps and alien tractor beams – how many centuries of books, testimonies, first-hand accounts, even scripture, actually support it? Truly, it comes from...Simon Parkes (!) I mean, really? And who else? Where else? What else is espousing it, and why? Ask yourself that.

Personally, I'd sooner trust the purity of the Higher Mysteries, and centuries of wisdom (as well as my own senses, physical and otherwise), than this...anti-spiritual poison! – meant solely to disarm, disengage, disempower and disinform our new age movement of truth. It's no different than the 'simulated universe' theory. "It's just a machine", they say, alien AI or some such. Transhumanism is trying to kill the Spirit in us, and turn everything into a machine, into technology – eventually, they aim to turn us into machines too. Don't fall for it!

[greybeard]

I think Star Mariner, in the nicest possible way, that you have brought this interesting discussion to a close.

Greatest respect for your experience and knowledge.which you have articulately shared.

Chris

[Kryztian]

Some really good information from Courtney Brown about how deceptive ETs are sending bogus information to channelers to enslave our souls in between incarnations.

QWLgdlBLocU

[Wind]

Contributing to the fear-mongering, I see.

[Pris]

Contributing to the fear-mongering, I see.

Which fear(s) are you referring to?


Here's my take on the subject in another thread:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?119056-Man-Crosses-Over-Told-Life-s-Purpose-During-Near-Death-Experience--NDE-&p=1551598&viewfull=1#post1551598

[Wind]

Which fear(s) are you referring to?

The fear about going into the light, but this has been talked many times here so I wish not to get into it again.

No one is forced to do anything, if it wasn't for relative free will then there would be no point to any of this.

We are here to choose after all. I hope we all will make wise enough choices in our lives.

[Pris]

Which fear(s) are you referring to?

The fear about going into the light, but this has been talked many times here so I wish not to get into it again.

No one is forced to do anything, if it wasn't for relative free will then there would be no point to any of this.

We are here to choose after all. I hope we all will make wise enough choices in our lives.


Thank you for your thoughts.

You say "relative free will". Relative to what? Free will? Sounds like we either have it or we don't.

Forcing someone to do something that's harmful to them is usually met with strong resistance.

If, however, you use a more subtle approach and trick people (your victims) with lies, gently and lovingly, into doing something harmful to themselves, then there's very little -- if any -- resistance. That means they were not forced.

This isn't about choosing to go into the light if you think it's the right thing to do. This is about asking ourselves would there even BE a light to go into if we hadn't heard about it from others first.

I absolutely think there is no way anyone can overthink this. It appears that people weren't afraid to "go into the light" until they really starting thinking about it.

If we have any free will to choose at all, surely, it comes from thinking about things thoroughly and questioning every possible outcome imaginable.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

You say "relative free will". Relative to what? Free will? Sounds like we either have it or we don't.

We have Free Will. It's the fundamental basis of human existence. You exercise it everyday in the thoughts you have and the choices you make. It's self-evident for the fact you're not a robot.

But at the same time it is, and must, be relative, because it has to have limitations.

One, generally speaking, is simple Natural Laws. These regulate physical reality so that order exists, not chaos. If it's your Free Will to jump off a cliff and fly, you'll find you can't do it (because of mass, gravity, aerodynamics etc - you're not a bird!). That's Natural Law in operation.

The second is the higher order of consciousness that governs all (spirit guides, angels, God, or whatever you believe in) which knows better than you, has your best interests at heart, and can and will step in, if necessary, to 'course-correct' human free will. Think divine intervention.

I used this analogy earlier in the thread:


does an infant child stepping into a busy road - to reach for its balloon - know what's best for it? Of course not. You, the parent, obviously step in to grab the child before it walks into traffic. You (as a higher order of consciousness) are violating its Free Will here – but you must because you understand the danger, which the child does not. You know better.

[Wind]

Thanks for your input, Mark. That's close to what I meant.

To be precise I mean that we are free beings and free to have our choices and I do believe in a relative free will. That is how the Creator made us to be. That's because there's so much that affects our choices and some of those things are also completely unconscious and although not everything is described in the stars, our paths are already written books with some wiggle room. It's more that the joy of the adventure matters to us and the element of surprise, because we just don't know what may lie ahead.

I suspect there may be some branching paths we may take so are there truly poor choices or just happy little "mistakes"? That's the freedom. How we react to things. The more one has awareness and as one is able to free themselves from karmic conditions then they surely will have even more freedom. A great part of humanity doesn't have what I would describe true and total free will, but this isn't that important. People want to believe that they're in control and that's what mostly matters, what they believe in.

I don't take this subject lightly either because if I would describe my religion then it would be freedom.

I want to be free to be who I am and free to have my choices. I follow my gut feeling or intuition.

That's what sovereignty is about. Everyone is supposed to make their own choices.

[Pris]

You say "relative free will". Relative to what? Free will? Sounds like we either have it or we don't.

We have Free Will. It's the fundamental basis of human existence. You exercise it everyday in the thoughts you have and the choices you make. It's self-evident for the fact you're not a robot.

But at the same time it is, and must, be relative, because it has to have limitations.

One, generally speaking, is simple Natural Laws. These regulate physical reality so that order exists, not chaos. If it's your Free Will to jump off a cliff and fly, you'll find you can't do it (because of mass, gravity, aerodynamics etc - you're not a bird!). That's Natural Law in operation.

The second is the higher order of consciousness that governs all (spirit guides, angels, God, or whatever you believe in) which knows better than you, has your best interests at heart, and can and will step in, if necessary, to 'course-correct' human free will. Think divine intervention.

I used this analogy earlier in the thread:


does an infant child stepping into a busy road - to reach for its balloon - know what's best for it? Of course not. You, the parent, obviously step in to grab the child before it walks into traffic. You (as a higher order of consciousness) are violating its Free Will here – but you must because you understand the danger, which the child does not. You know better.

Appreciate that.

I'm talking about spiritual free will which I think is limitless. The nature of the spiritual multiverse appears to be limitless.

Back to physical reality, if a person (without wings) wants to jump off a cliff and fly, I'd say that's got more to do with a physical mental disorder which is another topic. Living in a physical body does present its dangers/limits, no doubt about it. Again, a mother saving her child from getting hit by a car is a physical example.

I feel there is a point at which we must learn to "fly" completely on our own.

I don't assume there to be a "higher order of consciousness that governs all" that "knows better than you, has your best interests at heart, and can and will step in, if necessary, to 'course-correct' human free will." How does one define what is "necessary"? If, like each one of us, I am all things and everything divine, then I can and will forge my own way. I don't think of it as having a "higher self". It's about remembering who I am.

[Pris]

I don't take this subject lightly either because if I would describe my religion then it would be freedom.

I want to be free to be who I am and free to have my choices. I follow my gut feeling or intuition.

That's what sovereignty is about. Everyone is supposed to make their own choices.


I'd say that about nails it. The only thing I'd change is the word "religion". You say, "...if I would describe my religion then it would be freedom". Suggesting that freedom can be a religion is something of an oxymoron.

[Wind]

The only thing I'd change is the word "religion". You say, "...if I would describe my religion then it would be freedom". Suggesting that freedom can be a religion is something of an oxymoron.

Don't get too caught up in the words.

[Pris]

The only thing I'd change is the word "religion". You say, "...if I would describe my religion then it would be freedom". Suggesting that freedom can be a religion is something of an oxymoron.

Don't get too caught up in the words.


Do you mean not to be taken too seriously?

I like to play with words. Does that count?

It's the study of words that's helped me to gain insight into many things... especially with all the linguistic warfare being waged around us.

Do you know that the word "religion" means to be "bound up"? So, if you are "tied up", you can't be free.

[Wind]

Do you mean not to be taken too seriously?

I didn't say that.


I like to play with words. Does that count?

I guess it tells something.


Do you know that the word "religion" means to be "bound up"? So, if you are "tied up", you can't be free.

I understood that it meant "linking back".

I had to look up the word and found this explanation too:

"Newer research shows that in the ancient and medieval world, the etymological Latin root religio was understood as an individual virtue of worship in mundane contexts; never as doctrine, practice, or actual source of knowledge. In general, religio referred to broad social obligations towards anything including family, neighbors, rulers, and even towards God."

I have no issues with that. My only issues lie with dogmas, corruptible institutions and authority.

[Pris]

Do you know that the word "religion" means to be "bound up"? So, if you are "tied up", you can't be free.

I understood that it meant "linking back".

This I've not heard before. What do you mean by "linking back"?

By the way, "understanding" is an interesting word. It's one I am wary of.



My only issues lie with dogmas, corruptible institutions and authority.

That's it? Three things?

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

How does one define what is "necessary"?

An excellent question. The answer ties in with what Wind was saying re: relative free will. Mitigation (against free will) occurs or attempts to step in when we veer from our appointed path - or are in danger. In other words, something that stands in opposition to our fate.

It's pretty complicated. Because how can we have free will and fate/destiny at the same time? All fate really is, is a plan or goal - a destination to reach by the end of our life-time. It's up to us how we reach it. That's free will. Life is about learning, about growth. We choose the journeys we take in our life to achieve that growth. If we stray too far from our appointed path "course-corrections" become necessary. Free will still plays a part, because we can resist if we choose (and take the wrong path).

These "nudges" to stay on target can manifest as a dream, premonition, a flash of inspiration, or even just gut intuition - everyone's familiar with that. Like, "I got a feeling I want to stay in tonight", or "I don't want to go down that road" - and you find out the next day a terrible accident occurred - gut intuition told you "stay away", and you missed it. Intuition is one form of the higher self talking to you.


If, like each one of us, I am all things and everything divine, then I can and will forge my own way. I don't think of it as having a "higher self". It's about remembering who I am.

That's a good way to look at it. Another is we are so, so, soooo much more than what we think we are. If ALL our soul energy were to incarnate into a human body that body would explode, shatter, literally vaporize into atoms. That's sounds crazy I know, but the totality of our multi-dimensional selves is so vast and powerful that a physical human body cannot contain it. That's why we incarnate with just a fragment of it - that's what a persona is, and we have many of them, and incarnate with a different one every lifetime.

You said on the other thread you tried reading Michael Newton but hated it. I wonder very much what it was that so turned you off. Can you elaborate? It truly is one of the best books on the subject, and the most uplifting.

[Wind]

This I've not heard before. What do you mean by "linking back"?

"The word religion means religio, linking back, linking back the phenomenal person to a source. If we say it is the one life in both of us, then my separate life has been linked to the one life, religio, linked back. And this becomes symbolized in the images of religion, which represent that connecting link." ~ Joseph Campbell (https://billmoyers.com/content/ep-6-joseph-campbell-and-the-power-of-myth-masks-of-eternity-audio/)


https://vimeo.com/62379555

That's it? Three things?

In life? No, but that list would be too long for this thread, I'm a Virgo after all.

If you mean in relation religion then mainly yes. Is this getting off-topic now?

[Pris]

How does one define what is "necessary"?

An excellent question. The answer ties in with what Wind was saying re: relative free will. Mitigation (against free will) occurs or attempts to step in when we veer from our appointed path - or are in danger. In other words, something that stands in opposition to our fate.

It's pretty complicated. Because how can we have free will and fate/destiny at the same time? All fate really is, is a plan or goal - a destination to reach by the end of our life-time. It's up to us how we reach it. That's free will. Life is about learning, about growth. We choose the journeys we take in our life to achieve that growth. If we stray too far from our appointed path "course-corrections" become necessary. Free will still plays a part, because we can resist if we choose (and take the wrong path).

These "nudges" to stay on target can manifest as a dream, premonition, a flash of inspiration, or even just gut intuition - everyone's familiar with that. Like, "I got a feeling I want to stay in tonight", or "I don't want to go down that road" - and you find out the next day a terrible accident occurred - gut intuition told you "stay away", and you missed it. Intuition is one form of the higher self talking to you.


If, like each one of us, I am all things and everything divine, then I can and will forge my own way. I don't think of it as having a "higher self". It's about remembering who I am.

That's a good way to look at it. Another is we are so, so, soooo much more than what we think we are. If ALL our soul energy were to incarnate into a human body that body would explode, shatter, literally vaporize into atoms. That's sounds crazy I know, but the totality of our multi-dimensional selves is so vast and powerful that a physical human body cannot contain it. That's why we incarnate with just a fragment of it - that's what a persona is, and we have many of them, and incarnate with a different one every lifetime.

You said on the other thread you tried reading Michael Newton but hated it. I wonder very much what it was that so turned you off. Can you elaborate? It truly is one of the best books on the subject, and the most uplifting.


Interesting thoughts.

I look at it like this. Everybody has their own sandbox. You play by yourself in your own sandbox. Someone comes along. In order for them to play with you, you have to invite them in. It's the whole "vampire" idea.

What you are describing sounds like a clearly defined matrix. Everything's been thought out in advance. All the "rules" are in place, put there by someone else. Trick or treat?

They can't play with you unless you invite them into your sandbox.

You can only lose your power if you give it away.


https://imgs.search.brave.com/i8peKJdqdTtT4IUXEOUQqcdEf8yRipV_9pEcTWB9_Lc/rs:fit:768:512:1/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9leGNp/dGVkY2F0cy5jb20v/d3AtY29udGVudC91/cGxvYWRzLzIwMjEv/MDQvY2F0LXBsYXlp/bmctaW4tdGhlLXNh/bmRib3hfU2h1dHRl/cnN0b2NrX01hcmll/LUNoYXJvdXpvdmEt/NzY4eDUxMi5qcGc

[Michi]

Here is my idea what the white light is:

It is part of a sort of a holodeck were the spirit is pulled in by his innate curiosity and in that process permits to experience and thus be rather in an effect position.

Then in the on-going cinema, the spirit is kind of persuaded to be more the effect than cause and looses. (Elders or authoritative entities point out weak spots and shortcomings.)

Subsequently he starts to feel guilt and/or assigns blame. So he gives his power away and takes less responsibility and becomes even more effect.

[Pris]

Here is my idea what the white light is:

It is part of a sort of a holodeck were the spirit is pulled in by his innate curiosity and in that process permits to experience and thus be rather in an effect position.

Then in the on-going cinema, the spirit is kind of persuaded to be more the effect than cause and looses. (Elders or authoritative entities point out weak spots and shortcomings.)

Subsequently he starts to feel guilt and/or assigns blame. So he gives his power away and takes less responsibility and becomes even more effect.


That's why I think that if "the white light" shows up once your body is REALLY dead (too much damage to the body so the soul can't return to it), you a) may have already implanted someone else's idea of a "good" white light into your mind prior to death so you expect/manifest it, b) are scared of it because someone else implanted the idea to be scared into your brain so you manifest the white light out of your fears, or c) are going in "green" with no clue what's going on which makes you ripe for the plucking to any kind of experience manifested out of your own mind and/or possible outside influence.

I think NDEs are really no different from OBEs. I've been able to pre-program... steer and control my OBEs. Expectation results in manifestation.

[Pris]

Anyone can resist the light if they want - but then you risk getting stuck here. An earthbound spirit is precisely what a ghost is. Now that is the trap, if there is one.


Checking out an older comment of yours... There's a lot of (scary) presumption in your statement. For one, how do you know "precisely" what a ghost is? I see now why you feel so strongly about this subject.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Checking out an older comment of yours... There's a lot of (scary) presumption in your statement. For one, how do you know "precisely" what a ghost is? I see now why you feel so strongly about this subject.

I 'presume' from a place of study, knowledge and experience, rather than rumour or speculation. Whatever the subject may be, the former must trump the latter. I'm not sure why that would be scary..

I've been in this subject deep, for 30+ years now, and had a lot of experience in that time. I'm not a clairvoyant, but I am a sensitive. I have seen and interacted with spirits many times, many while investigating paranormal activity (I used to do that), and not all encounters were good! In fact I've had one of two terrifying experiences - once with what some people call 'shadow people', a humanoid being made of pure darkness. It was not a fleeting glimpse. The confrontation lasted some 20 seconds, fairly close up (maybe 10-20 yards), in a well lit area. After those 20 seconds I said 'nope, I'm done,' and got the hell out. I was not alone, a friend was with me and he saw it too, and went on to never speak of it again. That was an unpleasant experience to say the least, and a real wake-up call.

That is what one might call a ghost (or at least one type of ghost). This type we would call an 'earthbound spirit'. It exuded hatred for (or rather at) us and wanted us gone. If a spirit does not transition at death, this is what can happen to it.

Picture a bubble of air released from a rock on the bottom of the ocean. That's like a soul being released at death. The bubble naturally ascends. It's not being pushed or pulled by any outward force - buoyancy impels it because air is lighter than water. Same for a soul. Its nature is spirit not matter, so it's naturally impelled by frequency back to the threshold of its native dimension.

Dark souls, heavy souls, do not ascend in this fashion. They have literally become too 'heavy' with the negativity and dross accumulated in life. They remain anchored here (as ghosts). Many stay in this state for a long, long time, wallowing in doubt and despair. Often religious conditioning is to blame, and a deep-seated fear of 'Divine Judgment.' That's why they reject the light. For those who led particularly evil lives, the darkness of their energy can be even thicker and denser - they do not even hover at the earth plane, but sink lower, into what many call the hellish realms. These exist. But not in the same way religion depicts. It's not an eternal state. Redemption is available to every soul, but they have to want redemption, they have to want to look to the light.

Please do listen to this experience:
diPhrDPH8U8

I think part of the problem with this light trap thing is people are treating death as something unfathomable, something impenetrable, and something therefore insidious. The mind runs wild with 'I think it to be this,' or 'I imagine it to be that'. None of that is necessary. All that's necessary is to listen to the stories of those who have actually been in the light, and experienced the death experience.

Any which way you define it that counts as evidence, not theory.

Over the decades that evidence has piled up. There are now untold thousands of first hand accounts - loads on youtube, and many more in books. If one is very interested in life after death and what really awaits us beyond, this is the place to go, this is what you should listen to and study. Not fear-peddlers! They do not proceed from experience, first hand or even second hand. They proceed from fear, and so that is all they spread. They have succumbed to the psyop.

The 'powers that be' down here want fear and confusion and to keep people in the dark(ness). One of their methods has been to contaminate and destabilize the 'new age' and spirituality movement. What better way to do it than by filling people's minds with fear and confusion - and that even death is no escape!

The truth is that to die is simply to go home - to the place we truly belong, and where we all came from anyway.

[DNA]

Checking out an older comment of yours... There's a lot of (scary) presumption in your statement. For one, how do you know "precisely" what a ghost is? I see now why you feel so strongly about this subject.

I 'presume' from a place of study, knowledge and experience, rather than rumour or speculation. Whatever the subject may be, the former must trump the latter. I'm not sure why that would be scary..

I've been in this subject deep, for 30+ years now, and had a lot of experience in that time. I'm not a clairvoyant, but I am a sensitive. I have seen and interacted with spirits many times, many while investigating paranormal activity (I used to do that), and not all encounters were good! In fact I've had one of two terrifying experiences - once with what some people call 'shadow people', a humanoid being made of pure darkness. It was not a fleeting glimpse. The confrontation lasted some 20 seconds, fairly close up (maybe 10-20 yards), in a well lit area. After those 20 seconds I said 'nope, I'm done,' and got the hell out. I was not alone, a friend was with me and he saw it too, and went on to never speak of it again. That was an unpleasant experience to say the least, and a real wake-up call.

That is what one might call a ghost (or at least one type of ghost). This type we would call an 'earthbound spirit'. It exuded hatred for (or rather at) us and wanted us gone. If a spirit does not transition at death, this is what can happen to it.

Picture a bubble of air released from a rock on the bottom of the ocean. That's like a soul being released at death. The bubble naturally ascends. It's not being pushed or pulled by any outward force - buoyancy impels because air is lighter than water. Same for a soul. Its nature is spirit not matter, so it's naturally impelled by frequency back to threshold of its native dimension.

Dark souls, heavy souls, do not ascend in this fashion. They have literally become too 'heavy' with the negativity and dross accumulated in life. They remain anchored here (as ghosts). Many stay in this state for a long, long time, wallowing in doubt and despair. Often religious conditioning is to blame, and a deep-seated fear of 'Divine Judgment.' That's why they reject the light. For those who led particularly evil lives, the darkness of their energy can be even thicker and denser - they do not even hover at the earth plane, but sink lower, into what many call the hellish realms. These exist. But not in the same way religion depicts. It's not an eternal state. Redemption is available to every soul, but they have to want redemption, they have to want to look to the light.

Please do listen to this experience:
diPhrDPH8U8

I think part of the problem with this light trap thing is people are treating death as something unfathomable, something impenetrable, and something therefore insidious. The mind runs wild with 'I think it to be this,' or 'I imagine it to be that'. None of that is necessary. All that's necessary is to listen to the stories of those who have actually been in the light, and experienced the death experience.

Any which way you define it that counts as evidence, not theory.

Over the decades that evidence has piled up. There are now untold thousands of first hand accounts - loads on youtube, and many more in books. If one is very interested in life after death and what really awaits us beyond, this is the place to go, this is what you should listen to and study. Not fear-peddlers! They do not proceed from experience, first hand or even second hand. They proceed from fear, and so that is all they spread. They have succumbed to the psyop.

The 'powers that be' down here want fear and confusion and to keep people in the dark(ness). One of their methods has been to contaminate and destabilize the 'new age' and spirituality movement. What better way to do it than by filling people's minds with fear and confusion - and that even death is no escape!

The truth is that to die is simply to go home - to the place we truly belong, and where we all came from anyway.

Good stuff Mark.
Glad to see your still hosting this thread.
I tend to agree with most everything you have to say.
I've had very similar experience to yourself.
We should talk some time.
I would love to chat with you over a pot of tea. :)
Keep up the good work

[Pris]

Checking out an older comment of yours... There's a lot of (scary) presumption in your statement. For one, how do you know "precisely" what a ghost is? I see now why you feel so strongly about this subject.

I 'presume' from a place of study, knowledge and experience, rather than rumour or speculation. Whatever the subject may be, the former must trump the latter. I'm not sure why that would be scary..


It's the whole, "If you don't go into the light, you'll be trapped on Earth as a ghost." I don't know why it seems to concern you so much that there are those of us who see things differently. There are many different ways to look at and interpret something.

In the old Star Wars movie, remember how Luke treated Yoda when they first met?




I've been in this subject deep, for 30+ years now, and had a lot of experience in that time. I'm not a clairvoyant, but I am a sensitive. I have seen and interacted with spirits many times, many while investigating paranormal activity (I used to do that), and not all encounters were good! In fact I've had one of two terrifying experiences - once with what some people call 'shadow people', a humanoid being made of pure darkness. It was not a fleeting glimpse. The confrontation lasted some 20 seconds, fairly close up (maybe 10-20 yards), in a well lit area. After those 20 seconds I said 'nope, I'm done,' and got the hell out. I was not alone, a friend was with me and he saw it too, and went on to never speak of it again. That was an unpleasant experience to say the least, and a real wake-up call.

That is what one might call a ghost (or at least one type of ghost). This type we would call an 'earthbound spirit'. It exuded hatred for (or rather at) us and wanted us gone. If a spirit does not transition at death, this is what can happen to it.


That's interesting. Decades ago, during an OBE, I had my own personal experience with something that rather fits the description of a "shadow person". It was, by far, the most memorable OBE I've ever had and became a huge wake-up call and learning experience for me, too. At the time, it concerned me. But, that was then. I'm not sure what that thing was, but I have a pretty good idea why it showed up.




Redemption is available to every soul, but they have to want redemption, they have to want to look to the light.


To me, this sounds super religious. ;)




I think part of the problem with this light trap thing is people are treating death as something unfathomable, something impenetrable, and something therefore insidious. The mind runs wild with 'I think it to be this,' or 'I imagine it to be that'. None of that is necessary. All that's necessary is to listen to the stories of those who have actually been in the light, and experienced the death experience.

Any which way you define it that counts as evidence, not theory.

Over the decades that evidence has piled up. There are now untold thousands of first hand accounts - loads on youtube, and many more in books. If one is very interested in life after death and what really awaits us beyond, this is the place to go, this is what you should listen to and study. Not fear-peddlers! They do not proceed from experience, first hand or even second hand. They proceed from fear, and so that is all they spread. They have succumbed to the psyop.

The 'powers that be' down here want fear and confusion and to keep people in the dark(ness). One of their methods has been to contaminate and destabilize the 'new age' and spirituality movement. What better way to do it than by filling people's minds with fear and confusion - and that even death is no escape!

The truth is that to die is simply to go home - to the place we truly belong, and where we all came from anyway.


I don't see the "light trap" as a problem. On the contrary.

The "Abyss" is all about facing our deepest fears head-on and overcoming them.

This conversation reminds me of what happened during the last couple of years globally. The people who started to question the narrative were called fear-mongers. Questioning something doesn't necessarily make you fearful of it. The idea is to bring clarity. Apparently, it's a dangerous idea to those who seek power and control over others.

The New Age spiritual movement... today, I'd liken it to a cult of quicksand. To me, it started out ridiculously confusing yet quite alluring (mid 2000s). It was like a new fad, exciting. Everybody wanted a piece of it. And, that brought out all the snake-oil salesmen. As I dug into it over time, the whole thing became fake, sickly sweet, and disappointing.

When I first starting listening to NDE stories, I found them fascinating. Why not? Everybody likes a good tale. And, I liked that the stories were similar and gave off "happy vibes". Then, one day I started reading the book, "Journey of Souls". That's when I really started to question the entire NDE narrative. The "journey" was horrifically detailed... the "archonic" spin repelled me. Since then, I've not been interested in any NDE stories talking about how wonderful the light is.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

This conversation reminds me of what happened during the last couple of years globally.

"The last couple of years or so..." That's when the light trap psyop kicked in. A couple of years was all it took to upend thousands of years of spiritual wisdom, historical belief, mystical experience and so forth.


The people who started to question the narrative were called fear-mongers.

Which was precisely the purpose. It's how it starts. Though this isn't a 'narrative', i.e. something political in nature or dogmatic. Spiritual truth exists merely as a set of tenets, and they're universal in nature.


Questioning something doesn't necessarily make you fearful of it.

I'm very glad you don't fear it, although that is its goal. The target being people who have a spiritual awareness, meaning they believe (basically) in a soul and the afterlife - the two things that for all human history gave humanity a crumb of comfort, that upon death they'd escape this cruel planet and rise to exist forever with the ancestors/loved ones/God -- or whatever basis of belief they held. This psyop deliberately casts a shadow over all that, to say that no such thing exists, there is no escape, and all that awaits you after death is just more misery (here's your new boss, same as the old boss). This is what it's for. This is the idea it's meant to implant.


Apparently, it's a dangerous idea to those who seek power and control over others.

No one is seeking power and control. There is no such person, no such movement. This is not politics, this is merely good hearted people saying "this is a lie", and that all it will ever do is blunt spiritual awareness and blind you from the truth.


The New Age spiritual movement... today, I'd liken it to a cult of quicksand. To me, it started out ridiculously confusing yet quite alluring (mid 2000s). It was like a new fad, exciting. Everybody wanted a piece of it. And, that brought out all the snake-oil salesmen.

Yep, 110%. And it was snake-oil salesmen precisely who rolled on up and poisoned the well with their psyops - exactly like this one. They turned it all to quicksand. Like counter-culture in the 60s/70s. It's what they do. It's what they always do. Don't buy into it!


Then, one day I started reading the book, "Journey of Souls". That's when I really started to question the entire NDE narrative. The "journey" was horrifically detailed... the "archonic" spin repelled me. Since then, I've not been interested in any NDE stories talking about how wonderful the light is.

I'm sorry that book had that effect on you. But if you'd read it prior to being exposed to this psyop, it would not have had that effect. The most insidious seeding of the light trap rhetoric is to claim that any being "upper", "over" or "beyond" - a higher entity in other words - must, is, and can only be demonic, archonic, alien - it's never simply "a more advanced spiritual being". This psyop informs you that such a thing does not exist. Which is absurd. That immediately sets you on a path to suspicion when confronted with the afterlife.

I know exactly what it was that turned you off that book. It was the part involving spiritual guides and the "controllers" of life-paths, destinies - the "beings" that so say run the show over there reducing us to puppets on a string. I can see why you would think that with the light trap thing in the back of your mind. I do understand. But that isn't what they are, and it isn't how it works.

-- All I'm trying to do is reach out and say the afterlife is not what you think it is. No harm, no foul, we're just having a conversation. But, I'm sure at this stage there's nothing I can say that will change your mind --

However, I do recommend - if you can - to try reading Journey of Souls again, and then after it Destiny of Souls (the follow up book, which is even better and more detailed than the first). I'm not telling you to, just saying if you could, if you did read them - both of them cover to cover, and you came back unchanged and still believing in a light trap, I'll say fair enough. I'll totally accept it. I totally accept what you're saying already - as an alternative point of view, I'm just trying to tell you - as a response - it's a deception.

I don't know if you tried any of the earlier videos. But I urge you, if possible, to watch this one:

10 mins
ZMX8xeG2TPU

[Flash]

Very good video in previous post, thanks Mark. This woman may be presenting another set of beliefs that may be different from true reality, but at least it is helpful. I do think that we create in huge part our reality, either individually and/or collectively.

The avoidance of the light has been, at least in part, promulgated by Simon Parkes. I do not think that Simon has the truth. Certainly no more than me, you or anyone else. So we should definitely take it with a large grain of salt.

[Kalamos]

[This is a long post, sharing my perspectives and suspicions based off very possibly incorrect representations of metaphysical ideas]

It has been suggested and reiterated by some that "no self-tutored seer or clairaudient ever saw or heard quite correctly." (http://blavatskyarchives.com/psychicversusinitiate.htm)

Where is the metaphysical in all of this? Are any of the Light Trap Idea proponents at all clairvoyants to a great degree? Is any of it founded on the metaphysical systems of knowledge from past and present, or is everything just controlled by Aliens? All of the esoteric science of the soul was channeled to us by Aliens all this time? Really?

Systems that direct man on how to control his lower nature, to transmute himself by the Will of the SELF to be a being above the lower worlds, above fear and suffering through understanding of Evolution?

Or is it just Aliens trapping us here and feeding off our emotions, and recycling souls?

Some writers suggest that the Astral body is made up of unconscious material 'beings' (sleeping monads) that are descending into dense physical matter, on their involutionary path to become incarnate mineral beings, and from there begin their evolutionary journey (that old saying that the spirit [monad] sleeps in the mineral, awakens in the vegetable, develops motion in the animal, and realizes its individual consciousness in the human kingdom.)

To reach lower densities these unconscious monads of our astral body are attracted to the most dense aspects of the Astral sub-planes, as they correspond to the lower densities of physical matter. The lowest sub-planes of the Astral World are made up of our lower emotions (elementals/thought-forms), whereas the higher aspects correspond to lighter and less dense physical material substances, and begin and correspond at the superetheric physical plane, which is present in our physical world, but mostly unseen (to those without etheric sight) and which may appear in the afterlife as Light, and correspond to Higher Emotions, as is noted by those who've seen this Light ...

The Light, from whatever dimension, Feels Good, and meditators and NDE'rs describe Love.

Some may move from dark planes of a lower of confused and fearful emotions, toward a Light where they feel Love--a higher vibration/dimension/plane.

But we are told this is a Trap by Aliens now?

So continuing on about the Astral-Emotional matter of that body...

When we die, the Lower part of that body, which most strongly wants to continue to stay near the lower planes while descending toward physical matter by Natural Involutionary Tendency, which is the purpose of our co-operation with it as Evolutionary beings, as we as a conscious/awake evolutionary monad need to grow out of lower matter, where the unconscious involutionary beings/monads of our Emotional body are growing into it.

But why? It's for experience, for all monads involved to learn and gain experiences in all the dimensions, to come to know them and understand their workings, and so reach a goal of conscious creation in those dimensions according to Cosmic Processes. We carelessly do this now, as we are still learning about, experiencing, and evolving out of the lower Worlds of Man.

Anyway, so when we die a physical death, and we move, with our astral body away from dense physical matter, the natural tendency is for our (Man's) monadic SELF to separate from the monads of the Emotional-Astral Involutionary matter, starting from the lowest first, and progressing upwards. Where while alive we (monads) are co-creating experiences, each riding one another for experience that is mutually beneficial.

When we die, the Lower Emotional Body coalesces and forms an elemental sheath around our higher principles/bodies, which it does unconsciously, but by Natural Instinct, so to try and keep itself closer to the physical world--it's goal (the collective goal of those lower monads) for them is to incarnate into mineral bodies, the dusts).

This elemental sheath is called the Desire-Elemental.

The Lower Emotional Body in a coalesced sheath, called the Desire-Elemental, tries to dominate the situation for a time, and it succeeds for the most part, which is why many experience the lower planes first, and objectively, as well as remain near the physical world, it's closest correlating plane, in and near the most dense parts--physical, liquid, solid, and gas--what we see with our eyes.

By Natural process, and 'time' dependent on the Emotional nature/development of the dying personality (dependent also on an conscious and informed Will of the Self), this Desire Elemental eventually breaks up and dissipates as we (the monadic SELF of Man) ascend by Natural Tendency to our resting place in Higher Planes; the Elemental dissipates allowing us to gradually ascend into higher sub-planes of the Emotional World, those which correspond to the higher emotions, which correspond to higher forms of matter in the physical world-- the superetheric and higher (invisbile to physical eyes) which could seen as Light/Energy planes. There are correspondences likely to the higher Mental Worlds as well (but that comes later in our after death journey).

If I got any of that right, then I would suggest that avoiding a Loving Light, which feels good and is drawing you from the Darker lower densities of Earth and Astral matter; avoiding the Light could serve to prolonging your stay and life while your are dominated for a short time by the Desire Elemental.

This Desire-Elemental, that seeks to experience lower worlds, is built of material used by the spooks of Spiritists and Mediums, as well as the Elemental itself might become employed now by Dark Beings in the Lower Emotional Worlds, to 'act' like ghosts and Aliens (and other elaborate thought-forms), and so channel these ideas about alien domination (which no matter how much fluff is being mixed into it) cause confusion and fear to anyone who is unsure (and anyone not above a false surety) of their sovereignty as SELF.

Does it seem fitting that the Bad Guys suggest we stay, and prolong our life in the Astral by Avoiding the Light as it happens Naturally? ... which a longer stay in those lower planes puts the enveloped Soul inside the Desire Elemental at risk of being recruited into the Forces of Darkness for a time?

It is an intelligent trap indeed.

LIGHT=LOVE is no more? We have to be suspicious of aliens on Earth, and now after death?

I suggest one should go to the Light, to discard your Lower Bodies which do have a consciousness affect on us while incarnate and dis-incarnate, by way of being the vehicles of our Emotional expressions. But there are higher emotions in the Causal planes, True Joy, Peace, Love and Understanding, and that's where we go to rest after assimilating our experiences in the Higher Emotional, then Mental Worlds.

Or, you could dodge the Light and start walking around with the hungry ghosts, asking to go to Source. Soon enough, one of our rescue friends, those silent helpers here and there, will fetch you and bring you back to the Light.

If the Light Trap Idea is a False Idea perpetuated for whatever reason on the sensitives and truth seekers of the Alt community, then it would work to provide THEM bad guys with more servants and material forms to employ as aliens and ghouls in the fearful darkness of the night, while propagating this escapist mentality.
----------------

further notes to this speculative post:

-The Idea coming into our minds about Aliens feeding and recycling our souls might be a polluted reflection of something more like this:

-that beings and nature spirits in higher and parallel dimensions do feed off or use our thoughts and feelings. The negative ones feed on fear based emotions, while positive beings feed up higher emotions. It's not just hungry Aliens. What happened to all the ghosts?

-the idea the beings have complexes on the moon that recycle our souls and wipe our memories might be a polluted reflection that, perhaps beings do do this, but it is their job to do this. They recycle the material of thought and emotion, which are energies that are intelligently linked to our Soul. These are beings who work in the planetary processes of Cosmic Law who's work it is to get our material and energies/tendencies/skandhas linked back to our soul for the reincarnation process.

There may be beings, great and small, in other worlds, in the order of magnitudes greater that the number of human souls. These are MYSTERIES, but we might be receiving Mental Ideas about these beings and processes now a days, for whatever reason, but likely do to the procession into a New Age, which will bring with it revelations of Knowledge about these worlds and their inhabitants.

My personal opinion is that we are linking Ideas, Beings, and Processes that we are just re-discovering, but are receiving them incompletely through the multitudinous number of people coming through with these ideas from the mental plane.

The Ideas and Knowledge may our earned right, but the Dark Forces may be purposefully twisting the ideas to cause us to fear the higher beings that may just be here to assist us, and are doing a job that we don't understand yet.

Disclosure might be nothing of what we think it is, but a new paradigm coming soon that will explain all of these processes that we are here and there all still guessing at; new science will be revealed that explains many of these fussy and fantastic ideas as Spiritual, Mental, Emotion --- psychological disorders of consciousness.

Lastly, I admit that I could have all of this backward, and I may be wrong about the Light. I do strive to keep an open, yet critical mind.

If and when we all find that the paradigms we've been emotionally and mentally investing in, and even the persons and teachers we've trusted, have either been wrong by human error of interpretation, or wrong because we've been deceived by others who've been deceived, then we'll all have painful adjustments.

I preface almost everything I write as hypothesis, because I know that I don't KNOW.

Ha! I can hardly believe I wrote this post, given that I no longer ascribe to metaphysical systems, and am a skeptical agnostic now. I can't believe how nerdy I was with the Theosophies. I wish I could believe in this stuff like I used to. I do think it's an important topic still, because the The Light Trap meme can cause people to become despondent, while also giving people a false hope in making them think the Trap is easily escapable.

I would still side with the Newton's and NDE'ers who have had life changing experiences, and all their testimonies, over the fearful light trap meme.

[Pris]

This conversation reminds me of what happened during the last couple of years globally.

"The last couple of years or so..." That's when the light trap psyop kicked in. A couple of years was all it took to upend thousands of years of spiritual wisdom, historical belief, mystical experience and so forth.


The people who started to question the narrative were called fear-mongers.

Which was precisely the purpose. It's how it starts. Though this isn't a 'narrative', i.e. something political in nature or dogmatic. Spiritual truth exists merely as a set of tenets, and they're universal in nature.


Questioning something doesn't necessarily make you fearful of it.

I'm very glad you don't fear it, although that is its goal. The target being people who have a spiritual awareness, meaning they believe (basically) in a soul and the afterlife - the two things that for all human history gave humanity a crumb of comfort, that upon death they'd escape this cruel planet and rise to exist forever with the ancestors/loved ones/God -- or whatever basis of belief they held. This psyop deliberately casts a shadow over all that, to say that no such thing exists, there is no escape, and all that awaits you after death is just more misery (here's your new boss, same as the old boss). This is what it's for. This is the idea it's meant to implant.


Apparently, it's a dangerous idea to those who seek power and control over others.

No one is seeking power and control. There is no such person, no such movement. This is not politics, this is merely good hearted people saying "this is a lie", and that all it will ever do is blunt spiritual awareness and blind you from the truth.


The New Age spiritual movement... today, I'd liken it to a cult of quicksand. To me, it started out ridiculously confusing yet quite alluring (mid 2000s). It was like a new fad, exciting. Everybody wanted a piece of it. And, that brought out all the snake-oil salesmen.

Yep, 110%. And it was snake-oil salesmen precisely who rolled on up and poisoned the well with their psyops - exactly like this one. They turned it all to quicksand. Like counter-culture in the 60s/70s. It's what they do. It's what they always do. Don't buy into it!


Then, one day I started reading the book, "Journey of Souls". That's when I really started to question the entire NDE narrative. The "journey" was horrifically detailed... the "archonic" spin repelled me. Since then, I've not been interested in any NDE stories talking about how wonderful the light is.

I'm sorry that book had that effect on you. But if you'd read it prior to being exposed to this psyop, it would not have had that effect. The most insidious seeding of the light trap rhetoric is to claim that any being "upper", "over" or "beyond" - a higher entity in other words - must, is, and can only be demonic, archonic, alien - it's never simply "a more advanced spiritual being". This psyop informs you that such a thing does not exist. Which is absurd. That immediately sets you on a path to suspicion when confronted with the afterlife.

I know exactly what it was that turned you off that book. It was the part involving spiritual guides and the "controllers" of life-paths, destinies - the "beings" that so say run the show over there reducing us to puppets on a string. I can see why you would think that with the light trap thing in the back of your mind. I do understand. But that isn't what they are, and it isn't how it works.

-- All I'm trying to do is reach out and say the afterlife is not what you think it is. No harm, no foul, we're just having a conversation. But, I'm sure at this stage there's nothing I can say that will change your mind --

However, I do recommend - if you can - to try reading Journey of Souls again, and then after it Destiny of Souls (the follow up book, which is even better and more detailed than the first). I'm not telling you to, just saying if you could, if you did read them - both of them cover to cover, and you came back unchanged and still believing in a light trap, I'll say fair enough. I'll totally accept it. I totally accept what you're saying already - as an alternative point of view, I'm just trying to tell you - as a response - it's a deception.




Though I do appreciate you "reaching out", we really are on different tangents.

No, I knew about the "light trap" thing long before any "psyops" you say came onto the scene in the last couple of years.

I got into David Wilcock's stuff around 2009-10. David spoke highly of Michael Newton's "Journey of Souls" and recommended it. I was also interested with what Dolores Cannon had to say. It was 2014 when I read half of "Journey of Souls" at about the same time I heard about the "light trap" thing. Did that ever turn me off of David by the way. And, his involvement with Cory Goode and those "blue-bird aliens" didn't help his credibility. The "Law of One" sealed it. Also, no more Dolores Cannon for me. Then, I spent a couple of years on internet forums (started here on Project Avalon in 2014) and explored this subject and many others.

I actually felt pain in my chest as I read your "try reading 'Journey of Souls again'". Yes, that's how strongly I feel about it. I read enough of that book to realize what was going on. Again, I liken this to the plandemic. Even to this day, there are many people that have NO IDEA how much they were lied to and harmed by those they trusted. They look around and see nothing wrong even as wrongs are, still, continuously being done to them. In fact, they think everything is hunky dory. Cognitive dissonance. Mass formation psychosis. If a person buys into authority in this realm, they'll carry that trust of authority into the next realm and beyond.

[Wind]

If a person buys into authority in this realm, they'll carry that trust of authority into the next realm and beyond.

Your problem seems to lie with authority, but you assume that negative powers would have as much power as you think they have. You think that they are literally in control of this reality which couldn't be further from the truth. It's utter nonsense.

Esssentially you are giving them the powers which the Creative force or the Creator would have. You are of course free to believe what you want, but ultimately beliefs like these won't serve anyone. Instead they'll just confuse you even more. You are just trying to rebel against a system and spiritual laws which you don't understand.

If all of us had all the time direct access to our higher selves and even the akashic records then this wouldn't even be a discussion. Then again, humanity does seem to be quite a confused species when you look at the world. That of course serves the negative forces quite well, but their time is still coming to a close anyways. This isn't the realm of understanding and wisdom, this is the realm of choices.

[Pris]

If a person buys into authority in this realm, they'll carry that trust of authority into the next realm and beyond.

Your problem seems to lie with authority, but you assume that negative powers would have as much power as you think they have. You think that they are literally in control of this reality which couldn't be further from the truth. It's utter nonsense.

Esssentially you are giving them the powers which the Creative force or the Creator would have. You are of course free to believe what you want, but ultimately beliefs like these won't serve anyone. Instead they'll just confuse you even more. You are just trying to rebel against a system and spiritual laws which you don't understand.

If all of us had all the time direct access to our higher selves and even the akashic records then this wouldn't even be a discussion. Then again, humanity does seem to be quite a confused species when you look at the world. That of course serves the negative forces quite well, but their time is still coming to a close anyways. This isn't the realm of understanding and wisdom, this is the realm of choices.


You speak from your point-of-view and I from mine. You cannot know what is right for me just as I cannot know what is right for you.

There is no such thing as authority other than the power we give away. Negative powers are only as powerful as we allow them to be.

"Higher selves and "akashic records"... those are terms I connect to the old New Age movement and don't think much of them.

How little you know me. We are all Creators. Clarity comes from knowing.

If, as you say, this is only the realm of choices, how can you make "good" choices if you have no knowledge or wisdom? That's a rhetorical question. It seems to matter a great deal to you that you make the correct choices as you appear to have a problem with mine.

For me, this isn't about belief. I have my knowing as I look inside myself for answers. My knowing things certainly serves me.

[Wind]

How little you know me. We are all Creators.

Well of course we are, co-creators.

I'm not here to tell others what is right for them.

I don't know you, but I know that you're It. So am I.

We don't have to put a name on it, but it's One Infinite Consciousness.

That's all that there is and from that Source of Love we come from.

Eternal energy and delight. To me it's simple and I know that much.

[Pris]

How little you know me. We are all Creators.

Well of course we are, co-creators.

I'm not here to tell others what is right for them.

I don't know you, but I know that you're It. So am I.

We don't have to put a name on it, but it's One Infinite Consciousness.

That's all that there is and from that Source of Love we come from.

Eternal energy and delight. To me it's simple and I know that much.


The idea of "co-creating" is a rabbit hole.

Do you mean "One Infinite Consciousness" or "Source" where the individual surrenders themselves -- abandons their ego -- to the "whole" and kind of "melds" with it, giving up their individuality? If so, I see that as a "Borg collective".

I see a soul as forever and complete unto itself, a literal black hole that became conscious and is its own personality/ego. It seems to exist multi-dimensionally while learning, growing, remembering. It is singularity being itself, standing alone, the center of everything, expressing itself outward.

Singularity in nature exposes itself in everything around us. Based on physical observation of the macro to the micro, this infinitely outward and inward fundamental energy pattern appears to look something like this:


https://imgs.search.brave.com/ckh2qBa2Yb7GuYtBrLGnMTGuSyMLuPTCppW7Lfjasu0/rs:fit:636:358:1/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9pLmtp/bmphLWltZy5jb20v/Z2F3a2VyLW1lZGlh/L2ltYWdlL3VwbG9h/ZC9zLS1hdV9uQzFi/SS0tL2NfZmlsbCxm/bF9wcm9ncmVzc2l2/ZSxnX2NlbnRlcixo/XzM1OCxxXzgwLHdf/NjM2LzE3Zmw5ODVx/OHdyZW1qcGcuanBn

Sand Patterns Created by Sound


Essentially, this sheer energy force is in perpetual torque, spinning/rotating at its two poles in the form of a double-tetrahedron where each tetrahedron rotates against the other. Some call it the Merkaba.


https://imgs.search.brave.com/iiM0SDy0PBKkSPkITr_xEK7ISHK7QsG4fr5ugm2pz6c/rs:fit:500:281:1/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9tZWRp/YTIuZ2lwaHkuY29t/L21lZGlhL296NW9Z/dFFSMFNGT2cvZ2lw/aHkuZ2lm.gif


I'd liken us to individual crystals ("Christ", crystal consciousness) that independently collect, store, analyze, and use that information to gain knowledge and, hopefully, grow wise. It is about holding onto that knowledge and wisdom that I think is the key. I think it is fundamental to our freedom as conscious individuals.

[apokalypse]

big issue is Don't go to the light but where do we go..yes go to the source but only lights and speculating of alternative.

[Wind]

Do you mean "One Infinite Consciousness" or "Source" where the individual surrenders themselves -- abandons their ego -- to the "whole" and kind of "melds" with it, giving up their individuality? If so, I see that as a "Borg collective".

No, to me a Borg hivemind like with the AI is creepy. It's artificial machinery and it assumes direct control in a different way.

It can't see beyond it's own programming, it's just a machine anyways. Transhumanists want to explore that path of nuttery.

Think it as this way, we are the drops and once we merge with the sublime Ocean we become It fully and see with it's eyes. There is nothing else but that ocean (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4e/5d/8a/4e5d8abe560aa8eddf016eff43d6f3d5.png), yet sometimes we as drops forget that and think we are just separate little drops. The feeling of I am is never going to stop as it's the fundamental reality. We as drops have never left the ocean, because it's impossible. That ocean of consciousness is literally all that exists in the whole Creation.

Yet as parts of that ocean we have wanted to venture out and see how we can develop as little droplets and how we can individualize more and more so we can shine our light and unique colours. We don't have to be afraid of losing who we are because we can become even more fully who we are meant to be as we come to truly know ourselves as we are.


I see a soul as forever and complete unto itself, a literal black hole that became conscious and is its own personality/ego. It seems to exist multi-dimensionally while learning, growing, remembering. It is singularity being itself, standing alone, the center of everything, expressing itself outward.

I'd liken us to individual crystals ("Christ", crystal consciousness) that independently collect, store, analyze, and use that information to gain knowledge and, hopefully, grow wise. It is about holding onto that knowledge and wisdom that I think is the key. I think it is fundamental to our freedom as conscious individuals.

Indeed as we grow and evolve it would seem that our consciousness crystallizes only further towards the higher Christ consciousness. That's the path of an spiritual adept. There have been many, like the one we know as Yeshua who ascended or was baptised to a higher state of Christ Consciouness. He (ego)"died" to himself, but still lived as a human being in the higher crystallized state of Christ-hood. He taught us to treat each other with kindness and love and he showed the Way to that higher path. The point was never to worship a person, but to connect to a higher power.

[Pris]

Do you mean "One Infinite Consciousness" or "Source" where the individual surrenders themselves -- abandons their ego -- to the "whole" and kind of "melds" with it, giving up their individuality? If so, I see that as a "Borg collective".

No, to me a Borg hivemind like with the AI is creepy. It's artificial machinery and it assumes direct control in a different way.

It can't see beyond it's own programming, it's just a machine anyways. Transhumanists want to explore that path of nuttery.

Think it as this way, we are the drops and once we merge with the sublime Ocean we become It fully and see with it's eyes. There is nothing else but that ocean (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4e/5d/8a/4e5d8abe560aa8eddf016eff43d6f3d5.png), yet sometimes we as drops forget that and think we are just separate little drops. The feeling of I am is never going to stop as it's the fundamental reality. We as drops have never left the ocean, because it's impossible. That ocean of consciousness is literally all that exists in the whole Creation.

Yet as parts of that ocean we have wanted to venture out and see how we can develop as little droplets and how we can individualize more and more so we can shine our light and unique colours. We don't have to be afraid of losing who we are because we can become even more fully who we are meant to be as we come to truly know ourselves as we are.


I see a soul as forever and complete unto itself, a literal black hole that became conscious and is its own personality/ego. It seems to exist multi-dimensionally while learning, growing, remembering. It is singularity being itself, standing alone, the center of everything, expressing itself outward.

I'd liken us to individual crystals ("Christ", crystal consciousness) that independently collect, store, analyze, and use that information to gain knowledge and, hopefully, grow wise. It is about holding onto that knowledge and wisdom that I think is the key. I think it is fundamental to our freedom as conscious individuals.

Indeed as we grow and evolve it would seem that our consciousness crystallizes only further towards the higher Christ consciousness. That's the path of an spiritual adept. There have been many, like the one we know as Yeshua who ascended or was baptised to a higher state of Christ Consciouness. He (ego)"died" to himself, but still lived as a human being in the higher crystallized state of Christ-hood. He taught us to treat each other with kindness and love and he showed the Way to that higher path. The point was never to worship a person, but to connect to a higher power.


When I mentioned "Borg", I meant it as a general example of a societal construct that does away with the individual. Besides, I don't think the Star Trek Borg were AI. It was about the use of technology to connect organic minds together as a Hive mind.

I think we're kind of on a similar track here. The Christ/bible story can be interpreted much differently -- as a roadmap to the workings of the human body, mind, and spirit (see the work of Bill Donahue).

I don't think ego is meant to "die" when we "cross-over" in death, and I think astral travel is the "cross-over", too. It's just that we're still connected to the physical body. For me it feels like I'm "going inward and outward" so-to-speak. I don't sense I'm a "drop". Instead, I feel like I am the entire ocean. And, it's all still me, just so much more expansive while being hyper-focused. I don't feel like I'm "going back" to something or "merging in" with some "higher power". My ego is still intact. It's the feeling of being fully aware in the "now" and knowing exactly who I am, who I've always felt I am, from as far back as I can remember. The "out-of-body" experience is exhilarating.

When I speak of us being crystals, I mean it in a literal sense... like the quartz crystal. The quartz crystal is made up of silica (silicon dioxide, silicon–oxygen tetrahedra*) and is piezoelectric. We require silicon for bone and connective tissue health. So, in a very literal sense, I think we are living "liquid" quartz crystals that resonate and store memory/information.

There's definitely a connection here with water and sound. During some meditative practices, people say "om". It's interesting that we say the ohm is a measure of electrical resistance...


*compare Merkaba

[apokalypse]

to me this whole "go to the light" is UNKNOWN either fact or Untrue...best thing is go with Intuitive, crying out for help of benevolent beings...

[arwen]

I could not agree with this more. 14 minutes. Tony Sayers:


For the longest time within New Age arenas we are constantly being told that 'Earth is a school' and that 'we are here to learn' but is this REALLY the case?

So much pain and suffering around us, just why do we need to go through much turmoil to learn our lessons? It makes no sense to me and for good reason. The matrix wants you back here and it wants you to feel good about it too!

Xw1CYODXaZw

[apokalypse]

0ioGxe5Oslw

basically go the the light in cycle or facing back against it see the universe go home...

[Ratszinger]

When you are out of your body, well better said when I'm out of my body I can feel the intent of any others I meet. You'll know if it's loving, if it is not or if it's deception there is no hiding it. Everyone wears it on their sleeves you can't deceive or lie! The intention you had would be apparent and known by any others you meet. They'll read you and your emotions and self motivated fears as well and it's only after our own fears take over they can begin to play on your own fears but once you calm down then you read that they toy with you, much the same as spirits that haunt a house or space frequently do apparently to simply entertain themselves but once you wake into it you become just like them. Like attracts like there also so if you were deviant natured here all your time here or mostly you'll drift to that same vibe there to be with similar resonant beings and always when it's uncomfortable it's you being uncomfortable with you. We tend to want to project blame onto others but it's all internal and all reflections of the beings there shining out and like I said once you are there and you get acquainted there is not one way any being could lie to you without you seeing right through that and knowing. When you find yourself in the slums over there mentally it's only due to the fact you lived in the slums mentally here. In contrast to that if you lived bright and shining lives you vibe right to that frequency when you leave here. Hard to explain but there is nothing there to be afraid of but you.

[palehorse]

If anyone want to take a very deep trip to the guts of our realm, I recommend read with attention the book called "Secret doctrines of the Tibetan book of the dead". You will know that the authentic ritual texts are intended only for lamas, even if an average guy lay their hands on it, it would be not understandable. It is about ritual and ceremonies and communicate esoteric and practical wisdom to those participating in the course of the ritual.

The well known Tibetan book of the dead is in fact a bunch of texts (several books) of the death ritual, it will communicate knowledge about the process of dying and also about all the visions that occurs in the "bardo", there is speculations too.. explaining techniques to find a place to rebirth. Others more obscure texts consist of instructions of symbolic sacrifice to Buddhas and Goddesses/Deities (117 in total), exorcisms of demons and of course the magical ritual to guide the dead person.

Peaceful deities and wrathful deities (read demons if you like) they are depicted in mandalas, the peaceful ones with a circle of light around and the wrathful ones with flames. Both are light.

According to these scriptures that compose the Tibetan book of the dead, men reaches the zenith of his life at its end right in the moment of death and a short time after it.

Here is part of the book that mentions about the light

"There is in any case something unbelievably convincing in the Tibetan's expectations about death and the beyond and in his recognition of the highly numinous and extremely ambivalent power that manifests itself in death. The events are described with such penetrating clarity, it is as if they could not possibly be otherwise. What is certain is that considerable empathetic powers are there as well as a precognitive kind of thinking that goes beyond the everyday"

If you rationalize the above as most western in academia will do, then you are missing the point, because the problem of death is thereby neither illuminated nor solved.

p.s. I am looking for the part that explain in more details the guidance part that the dead receives and it seems to influence the decision of the dead in going back to uterus (following the light) or becoming something else in other planes (possibly lower planes of existence like a hungry ghost or even animal).

[Pris]

I could not agree with this more. 14 minutes. Tony Sayers:


For the longest time within New Age arenas we are constantly being told that 'Earth is a school' and that 'we are here to learn' but is this REALLY the case?

So much pain and suffering around us, just why do we need to go through much turmoil to learn our lessons? It makes no sense to me and for good reason. The matrix wants you back here and it wants you to feel good about it too!

Xw1CYODXaZw


This is what I think, too. Thanks for sharing. It's about looking at everything from a logical perspective.

This is about being the "outsider". The "outsider" who questions things is always considered a threat to those living in a paradigm. People generally resist questions that raise contradictions to their status quo because it makes them feel uncomfortable. Questions raise other possibilities and that is unacceptable to those who are fearful. This is about conquering one's own fear of the "abyss". When you don't know your own power, you will be afraid and you will look outside yourself for comfort and safety. Go inside yourself, know yourself, and be the captain of your own ship.

[Pris]

.
https://imgs.search.brave.com/G7W-dWs0wOuaGs1yNSq8IsOJrAQPMAFuueN4RPnXpp4/rs:fit:450:341:1/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9pLmlt/Z2ZsaXAuY29tL2ty/bm5rLmpwZw


"If you build it, they will come." How many people heard about other people's NDE stories prior to having their own NDE? Is it really a surprise that their stories sound "remarkably similar"? These people defend their stories as "feel good stories" when there are obvious cracks in the facade. All our lives we've been influenced/programmed without even realizing it. "When things seem darkest, there is always a light at the end of the tunnel."

Faith, trust in authority... How many good people today still think Biden won the election fair and square? How many good people trusted the government, trusted all the propaganda, and took all their "safe and effective" shots and boosters? The people have cognitive dissonance and don't even see the manipulation and harm being perpetrated against them.

Even Lucifer (a "fallen angel" or "angle of light", a symbolic aspect of our "lowered" energy) was the "Lightbringer", a "false guide out of the darkness".

When it comes to discernment and "knowing", it's comforting to think that "being good" is all it takes and we just suddenly get wise when we "cross-over" without having done any inner work. Instead, we unwittingly take other's programming with us. Anyone who's experienced OBEs and has learned how to control them knows this. If we were hoodwinked on this side, there's a good chance we'll be hoodwinked on the other side. "As below, so above."


https://imgs.search.brave.com/Nip1ulyhyq6sID3aOW4WwAEbOSmcNCrhYG4HxVXc90k/rs:fit:1200:1000:1/g:ce/aHR0cDovLzEuYnAu/YmxvZ3Nwb3QuY29t/Ly1XS3RDSks2TGVP/Zy9VSFhtam9ZT0tQ/SS9BQUFBQUFBQUg5/TS9lZkp4VnlmZEZq/VS9zMTYwMC9pbF9m/dWxseGZ1bGwuMjc5/MDc4MTYwLmpwZw

[Vicus]

"This is about being the "outsider". The "outsider" who questions things is always considered a threat to those living in a paradigm"

That paragraph bring some "remembers" to me...

3 years ago watched (again) the movie "Groundhog Day " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundhog_Day_(film)

I saw this movie many times because the funny acid humors Bill Murray, but at some point began to anger me, not
him but how the story began to be "sanitized", I couldn't put my finger on...until last time I "saw" it !

The super sugar coat vomit at him from Andie MacDowell was unbearable, this time was for me like:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAz3SFxHWnE

And then he is finally "assimilated", no happy end for me but back to the meat grinder wheel... :croc:

[Delight]

I just heard a discussion that is about the energy body work which we must do on earth to be prepared to face any after life experience. This was really pertinent to me because I have been working with the assumption that my basic job is to clear obfuscation and recognize my self FROM the POV of being energetic.

When material is just whirling energy, it MUST be the observer in us which chooses how everything appears. The main job here is to be whole. We can operate powerfully as "physical" through our connection to all of ourselves with our authentic energy (versus what has been overlayed). Responsibility for clearing of our energetic bodies has to be learned IMO HERE before we can graduate (or would want to graduate). How an one master deep "matter" without being "here". IMO I intend to graduate if at all possible.

I was seriously struck by my connection to his talk because of my use of imaginary machines to clear my energy. I created a "box" where I send all energy in my field that is not mine. It is an elaborate imagination that has evolved over time. What has always been INCREDIBLE but true is that when I remove the energies "not mine", I FEEL a physical response.

I absolutely 100% subscribe to how effective energy clearing by way of removing and reinstalling patterns BECOMES. Then to create 3D options of OUR choice is what happens. The world is Spiritual first then manifests. Our whole being working in harmony means we are free here there and everywhere.

N5IOGlefFM0

[palehorse]

I once had an "encounter" with something from the other side (wasn't a dream, I was fully awake), I was around 19 years old, the formless energy that came to me has no physical appearance nor spoke any language, I am sure it was a frequency of some sorts, a vibration that I could feel, and that made me completely immovable, I could not even breath well, this happened more than once, it was very strong, first time I was going to bed and the second time I was inside the bus traveling to another city and the second time it was so hard hit that the person beside me almost freaked out.. go figure.

I had been listening to others that had been through the same experience or similar the one I had, some say that when we die we become formless, just an energy entity or something that we can't really describe with language, but not in a human shape or any resemblance of human.

The 2 events that was more important to me, happened a week or so after my cousin passed away in a car accident, we were very close, I liked him very much, he was a good friend. I will never know for sure, but the encounter I had with this entity was powerful and there was no lights of any sort, if I can describe it, was quite the opposite, the room turned pitch-dark and the entity was above me, and all I could hear and feel was that vibration and also I could see the entity in the dark (don't know how but was like that), the whole episode took a few minutes, but felt like an eternity, really timeless.
Second time inside a bus during the day light, everything became dark again and what seems to be a huge hand appeared in front of me and then the very same entity and the vibration again but this time it was amplified by 3x or 4x.. both events happened just few days apart, and after that it didn't happen again.

I also had other experiences after that, the most recent was years ago when I was driving during the night with family, I almost got into an accident falling into a river (it was that close), for whatever reason it was not my time and the other ones I was responsible, an hour or so later arrived in my destination and I saw someone outside the house of my sister-in-law, I asked her who was waiting for her and she jumped in the back seat, there was nobody in there, I saw what seems to be a woman and a children from the distance, they were there standing, but I was the only one who could see that... weird at least.

For me I don't freak out with these events anymore, they are part of my life, but what I don't understand is why these entities can take form of humans and why they also can be formless just as a vibrating energy?

In Tibetan Buddhism more specifically Bon religion they see the vital energy as formless.. I came to know that after the events happened to me, which was great because otherwise it could be all fabricated by my mind (I mean I didn't know about that), anyways who knows if it is all a program running under the hood???

I keep my mind as open as a parachute for these issues, I prefer not to pick any side, I think all we can do is tell our tales instead of trying to assume anything about death or the dead. Not a single one returned from the dead (I DON'T mean reincarnation or zombies and the likes).

Anyone with similar experiences would like to share?

[Pris]

"This is about being the "outsider". The "outsider" who questions things is always considered a threat to those living in a paradigm"

That paragraph bring some "remembers" to me...

3 years ago watched (again) the movie "Groundhog Day " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundhog_Day_(film)

I saw this movie many times because the funny acid humors Bill Murray, but at some point began to anger me, not
him but how the story began to be "sanitized", I couldn't put my finger on...until last time I "saw" it !

The super sugar coat vomit at him from Andie MacDowell was unbearable, this time was for me like:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAz3SFxHWnE

And then he is finally "assimilated", no happy end for me but back to the meat grinder wheel... :croc:


Meat grinder, yes... very interesting. I hadn't really thought much about that movie, Groundhog Day, but now that you brought it up... great perspective.

I found a few extra tidbits.

Did Bill Murray's character "Phil" relive that day for 30 to 40 years? Yikes.

Buddhists interpreted Phil's experience as a journey of "selflessness and rebirth", while Catholics looked on it as a stay in Purgatory where the only way out is to undergo "Purification to achieve Holiness". That all sounds rather righteous, imposed... Nope, I'm not feeling it.


3 Things About "Groundhog Day" (1993) You Never Realized


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwGLBhj43NY


Or, did Phil sign his soul over to the Devil? Phil was, literally, tortured for decades to change who he was. He was manipulated over a long period of time and eventually surrendered himself. He finally "escapes" Purgatory as a "nice guy" only to start his saccharine-sweet life with his saccharine-sweet girlfriend in Hell. Yes, I'd say this interpretation feels more accurate.


How Phil Conners Really Escaped Groundhog Day


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZGBW8GGHC8


I thought Phil's so-called "character flaws" were precisely what made him interesting and unique. He was like a wild horse and the Devil decided to reign him in (with popularity, fame etc.) and break him.


This is Phil before he's destroyed:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwY0smQocXk


Another scenario I'm reminded of is Gilligan's Island. The island is Hell and nobody can leave. I always thought how endearing the castaways were with all their "flaws" and if that's supposed to be the Gold Standard for the "Seven Deadly Sins", whoever decided to incarcerate them on that island for their so-called "sins" was a real A-hole. And, IF the Devil really was Gilligan, then that makes the whole thing an even more royal mind-screw.


Link to article, Gilligan’s Island and the Seven Deadly Sins:

https://11thstepbootcamp.com/blog/gilligans-island-and-the-seven-deadly-sins/


https://11thstepbootcamp.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Gilligan_hq720-768x432.jpg

[palehorse]

Have a read of the tibetan book of the dead.

I don't know anything else that goes through in more detail than the scriptures that make up the Tibetan book of the dead (also try Egyptian book of the dead). There is another one "Secret doctrines of the tibetan book of the dead" <<<------ see the word "doctrines" that will cover some points about the white light trap...

Another one that went to far out is: "THE PSYCHEDELIC EXPERIENCE - A manual based on THE TIBETAN BOOK OF THE DEAD by Timothy Leary, Ralph Metzner & Richard Alpert" wrote in the 60's or before that, not sure. The book was probably written under the influence of mescaline, LSD and shrooms for the information I have, and it is basically about the ego death or loss of personality which we do lose at the end of this journey. Kind of the bible for the hippie movement in the 60's, I would not spend much time on it anyway.

Why would Leary and his colleagues use such serious material as a framework for psychedelic experiences?

[mountain_jim]

Have a read of the tibetan book of the dead.

I don't know anything else that goes through in more detail than the scriptures that make up the Tibetan book of the dead (also try Egyptian book of the dead). There is another one "Secret doctrines of the tibetan book of the dead" <<<------ see the word "doctrines" that will cover some points about the white light trap...

Another one that went to far out is: "THE PSYCHEDELIC EXPERIENCE - A manual based on THE TIBETAN BOOK OF THE DEAD by Timothy Leary, Ralph Metzner & Richard Alpert" wrote in the 60's or before that, not sure. The book was probably written under the influence of mescaline, LSD and shrooms for the information I have, and it is basically about the ego death or loss of personality which we do lose at the end of this journey. Kind of the bible for the hippie movement in the 60's, I would not spend much time on it anyway.

Why would Leary and his colleagues use such serious material as a framework for psychedelic experiences?

Because (and based on my own extensive personal experimental research), temporary ego death and an experience of (return to) The One, which (arguably) each soul is an individuated unit of/from, is the primary result and value of the most successful entheogen experiences.

In my (experienced) opinion.

These 60's researchers had these life-changing experiences and studied various ancient texts to find preexisting maps for exploring this consciousness terrain they were discovering.

Many books and much research exists to suggest (and sometimes prove) that various plants containing consciousness-altering substances were involved in the inner circles of many of the world's spiritual practices and rituals.

[palehorse]

Have a read of the tibetan book of the dead.

I don't know anything else that goes through in more detail than the scriptures that make up the Tibetan book of the dead (also try Egyptian book of the dead). There is another one "Secret doctrines of the tibetan book of the dead" <<<------ see the word "doctrines" that will cover some points about the white light trap...

Another one that went to far out is: "THE PSYCHEDELIC EXPERIENCE - A manual based on THE TIBETAN BOOK OF THE DEAD by Timothy Leary, Ralph Metzner & Richard Alpert" wrote in the 60's or before that, not sure. The book was probably written under the influence of mescaline, LSD and shrooms for the information I have, and it is basically about the ego death or loss of personality which we do lose at the end of this journey. Kind of the bible for the hippie movement in the 60's, I would not spend much time on it anyway.

Why would Leary and his colleagues use such serious material as a framework for psychedelic experiences?


Because (and based on my own extensive personal experimental research), temporary ego death and an experience of (return to) The One, which (arguably) each soul is an individuated unit of/from, is the primary result and value of the most successful entheogen experiences.

In my (experienced) opinion.

These 60's researchers had these life-changing experiences and studied various ancient texts to find preexisting maps for exploring this consciousness terrain they were discovering.

Many books and much research exists to suggest (and sometimes prove) that various plants containing consciousness-altering substances were involved in the inner circles of many of the world's spiritual practices and rituals.



Thanks for your reply Jim. If you could expand a bit in your experiences, would be nice to know how you faced it.

Yes we get high, Terrence had experiences with all sort of entheogenic plants in South America, Hawaii and elsewhere, I do know the relation, I drunk ayahuasca myself a few times during a shamanic ritual in Brazil (Terrence's tapes inspired me to do it), I never imagined anything in terms of bardo and passing away and going into other post-death states of mind. But of course that may depends on each individual and the current state of mind when having the experience or both.. for instance I know people that drunk caapi with me in the same ritual and their experiences was diverse, for example one lady she was kind of religious person (Christian) and she had an Eureka moment with virgin Mary (I don't judge, I just listened her experience, it may be true or not who knows), 2 other guys they met aliens spaceship, they have basically the same experience, I went to the stars and was floating in there for a while (lost feeling) in one occasion, another time I was speaking with animals like wild cat, leopard, even birds, I could talk with them all and they talk back to me, my friend in an isolated situation had the same experience, he could speaks with monkeys,.. that's why the question, I never understood that book well, for what I had talk to others the day of my experiences, I can't remember anyone commenting about death. But I imagine we can project any sort of experience when using entheogenic plants just focusing/pursuing the outcome, make sense.

sorry to go off-topic here.

[mountain_jim]

I understand your request but trying to reduce/transfer these experiences into language is not something I feel comfortable or capable of doing - Terrence was unusually adept at that I will say - and I met him when attending a 1194 seminar of his on Maui and he signed several of his books for me.

I also attended talks by Tim Leary and Baba Ram Dass back in the day....

I sum it like this: You have to die to be reborn - and the death/rebirth archetype experienced by a tenacious ego personality letting it all go is a pathway....

Life's ego-testing can also accomplish this (in extreme circumstances) with a longer lasting change than the typical entheogen-induced version, I once found out.

That sounds religious and they do use this archetype but no religious beliefs are required - the principal is beyond beliefs or belief-systems in my experience.

[Pris]

.
.
I've found my ego -- that which is uniquely me -- to be a powerful shield around my soul. It is the fundamental aspect of the entirety of who I am (my memories, my sense of self) and it comes through for me while OBEing. This idea of having to shed the ego at any time let alone at death -- like it is something to be ashamed of, holds "you" back somehow, and needs to be cast off in order to "rise" to the "next level" -- sounds very cultish, fear-centric, and remarkably disempowering. It makes no sense to me. If anything, keeping the ego as part of our growth as spiritual beings makes the most sense to me. Anything else is submissive self-destruction.

Never forget.


https://i.pinimg.com/736x/eb/67/fb/eb67fbe591f793bfcac29c3268d8e96d.jpg

[mountain_jim]

Well since our takes rely on an agreed definition of ego, which may be different, this illustrates my point about why I prefer not to even use words to describe these states.

I do think I understand your point - and would say there is not much point to living if the growth from this experience is not preserved and leveraged through potential future ones.

I just end up in the weeds of verbal debate sooner or later. I started out just trying to explain why the Books of the Dead were found to be a worthwhile map for the entheogen experiencers based on my experience.

Obviously my ego-self did not die during these transformations - rather a symbolic release and merge with that outside of one's usual limited program-controlled self, then a return to the personality with new understandings of aspects of Reality not formerly known/understood, and less limiting belief/programming.

This is my last post about this as my words are inadequate and imprecise, sorry to say.

[Pris]

.

Well since our takes rely on an agreed definition of ego, which may be different, this illustrates my point about why I prefer not to even use words to describe these states.

I do think I understand your point - and would say there is not much point to living if the growth from this experience is not preserved and leveraged through potential future ones.

I just end up in the weeds of verbal debate sooner or later. I started out just trying to explain why the Books of the Dead were found to be a worthwhile map for the entheogen experiencers based on my experience.

Obviously my ego-self did not die during these transformations - rather a symbolic release and merge with that outside of one's usual limited program-controlled self, then a return to the personality with new understandings of aspects of Reality not formerly known/understood, and less limiting belief/programming.

This is my last post about this as my words are inadequate and imprecise, sorry to say.


I think you are better with words than you give yourself credit for. I agree, it's very difficult to express ourselves precisely with words which is why I also like to use imagery, art, poetry, music etc. It's all helpful. Communication beyond the comprehension of "love" gets very complicated.

I like to comprehend things. It's a game I like to play. Words are tricky. For example, having learned the linguistics of what "understand" means, I won't ever stand under anyone or anything.

You say, "...there is not much point to living if the growth from this experience is not preserved and leveraged through potential future ones." Right... I say there is no point to any of it if we don't keep it. As for the "future", whatever that is and however we choose to find ourselves whether physically manifest or not, I think that's entirely up to the individual to decide.

It's interesting that you mention limitation with regard to our "program-controlled self". I think the individual personality -- always learning and growing -- coupled with powerful (love-based) intention is the driver of it all and that there really are no limits to the programs we "write" for ourselves -- in this realm and beyond. I've done it myself -- preprogrammed OBEs. My epiphanies come from all directions, "awake" or "asleep". "Imagination knows no bounds." Define "reality"? Thoughts are things, dreams are reality. It's all subjective from an individual's standpoint and it needs to be.

That's why there's no need for us to agree on anything at all. Although, I do find it extraordinarily fun when I recognize myself in others and they recognize themselves in me. And, that can't happen if there's no interaction. :)



. . . . ..This is me prepping myself before having an OBE.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/79/63/1b/79631b94b296b89582d8661680b2b949.jpg

[Kryztian]

https://i.imgur.com/UsW8CrI.jpeg

Ascent of the Blessed, painted by Hieronymus Bosch circa 1510.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascent_of_the_Blessed

for a larger, even more detailed image, click here (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Hieronymus_Bosch_013.jpg)




ggg

[Faylin]

false realities could be fun, like this is the vr age. I think we dream after "death" and we can socialize and have what we believe is a physical reality but there isn't... and we can control it like we can dreams... but i also believe that each can forge their own path and different things can happen.

I don't know if white light is a trap.... I've had dreams of white light, im scitzo affective so I've had hallucinations of white lights but im not sure what they mean. i know in sci fi it means transference of physical matter and one could assume based on scifi lore but i had a hallucination of chester bennignton warring with white light 10 years before his death and tried to aid him, im a fan you know. plus im crazy.

id like to think that everything in reality is a representation of self, that makes life easy, but when you add others in the mix it's hard.

my point is traps can be society, it can be anything.

just because someone becomes entraped by light doesn't mean all light entraps... and we KNOW all light ISN'T a trap.

i know it's stressful everyone. but if we counter create towards our fears, we'll be fine.

Fear light is a trap? manifest light that aids you and the greater good.

[Kryztian]

A strong argument not to go into the light. Much of this information is based on remote viewing, however, no names of any remote viewers are mentioned, nor is clear when and where these viewings were done.

OerjaaGzD0s