Is the white light after we die a trap?

[Azt]

Just wondering if someone has an opinion on that :


Some alien researchers say that not only do ET's manipulate our physical bodies in this world, but they also deceive us after we've died. Robert Morningsky warns us not to go into the white light we see when we die because it is a trap to further our enslavement and put us straight back into another body. He says to stop, look around, go out into space and find your own light. The white light is used as a reprogramming centre to install amnesia and screw up our lives because we forget our past lives from this. Susan Reed reports that reptilians erase our past life memories so our subconscious believes we have more karma to pay back than we really do. This also fits in with the Wingmakers guy James who talks about Anu creating an artificial world and luring and trapping souls into it so he can be king of the world.

[minkton]

Have a read of the tibetan book of the dead.

[Shezbeth]

The work of Carlos Castaneda - Yes. Organizations dedicated to Sumerian polytheism agree.

http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/ - edit
http://www.enkiea.org/

[Star Tsar]

I would like to learn more on this theory are there any links to share especially Castaneda's perspective?

:)

[mahalall]

cant quote from after death, but in life-whilst in the pleasure of light we have to be wary that this state is also in a flux.

[kersley]

There's only one way to know for sure.Unfortunately many that has gone that way has failed to report back to answer your question.

[markpierre]

Nothing and no one can erase who you are. Your human identity isn't that important to you when you've left form anyway.
It isn't very important now.
The answer to the question you've asked is no. You don't need to carry the same paradigm of fear that tries to control you here,
into the next world. You certainly can if you want to.
Why would you want to?

You're 'in God'. There is no other place to be. You're in God right now. There's nothing much that can confront you except your beliefs.
Believe in cannibal reptile aliens if you want to, and you may have to contend with them. They won't be able to kill you
because you can't die. How many times have you died to discover you can't die? Maybe you've already been eaten by reptiles.
I worked with 'the dead' for a lot of years. It's pretty ordinary. There's no such thing as death.
Here's an idea. If you see a reptilian, eat him. That'd change your perspective.

It happens sometimes that individuals get caught by surprise through trauma. Or often through simple misunderstanding,
don't realize they've disengaged from the physical. It's as simple as being preoccupied with what's at your feet, when
what's trying to get your attention is above you.

I don't know how often that happens, but often enough as far as I was concerned. It's sometimes helpful for a mind that's
still attached to it's human story to be able to speak to a human. It would generally go something like this; (perhaps a bit more gently)
me: I'm sorry to be the one to tell you, but you've died.
them: No I haven't, I'm right here.
me: Do you recognize your voice as yours?
them: Um...no.
me: Are those hands familiar?
them: No.
me: Who's are they?
them: I don't know.
me: You're dead, and you're still you. There must be some mistake about what you thought dead meant.
them: I guess so.
And then we could get down to details. But sooner rather then later, they were ready to acknowledge whoever had come to collect them.
'Dead' isn't what anyone thinks it is.

You're not left alone because you can never be alone.
There are no reptiles waiting to steal your soul. There are no monsters under the bed.
If you don't go toward the light, you'll be stuck looking at your feet until you do.

Wait until one of those 'researchers' dies, does whatever he does, and comes back and reports on what occurred.
He won't be as attached to his identity as an 'alien researcher'. Firsthand information is always the best.

[Sunny-side-up]

Azt thanks for this post, I do share your concern/observation about the "Light"
That is a great point in our journey to set a trap!

I have tried to start conservation posts on this subject before.

In said posts I explained my experiences with forbidden Taoist Breathing exercises!
What I experienced was amazing and I believe it was the Light-Tunnel-Entrance,
but from a static viewpoint IE I wasn't dying but visiting under my own awake consciousness.
What you see then because of being still/observing are the objects that make up the Light;
because you aren't hurtling down through them as too blur them into a bright light!

I also believe the ET's that imprison us (As talked about in so many articles/vid's/interviews and posts); the ones that enslave us for our energies by repeatedly diverting us back into this circle/cycle of so called life (A diminished pale version of life) are actually "Djinns"
Who are the first and continued deceivers of Humanity, they are great shape shifters of themselfs and our perceived view of reality.

You have choices at that point, you do!

markpierre you say
"Nothing and no one can erase who you are. Your human identity isn't that important to you when you've left form anyway.
It isn't very important now.
The answer to the question you've asked is no."

Well I've also herd and read so many articles/vid's/interviews and posts that say we have been repeatedly on a massive scale concussed of knowledge and our history, true ancestry; many, many times and what we are all fighting for now, in these great days have been "Not to let it happen again"

So yes! I truly do believe there is a trap that we (Not all) fall into time after time, after time!

Time to Break that chain:wizard:

[chocolate]

My few cents- the moment you accept the idea is the moment it becomes real for you. So you decide.
You can't live fully when in fear, but it is not good to live in an illusion also, so just don't put so much attention to this.
Yes, I have read so many articles, books, have seen more videos that are healthy for my sanity, but also I know in my heart I should be more concerned with the time while I am alive than with things that are out of my control.

[Shannow]

I recall listening to a youtube vid where a gnostic was planning his path through his pyramid for after his passing, to avoid distractions, people wth questions, and bright lights...made sense

[Wind]

I saw this clip earlier somewhere on this forum and I think it fits here too... The answer is no. :)

Rag_9J1ZC2g

[Kindred]

NO.... Unequivocally...

While I've posted this before, this question begs this reply.
From "Seth Speaks"
PG 162
“Quite simply, a belief in the good without a belief in the evil, may seem highly unrealistic to you. This belief, however, is the best kind of insurance that you can have, both during physical life, and afterward.

It may outrage your intellect, and the evidence of your physical senses may shout that it is untrue, yet a belief in good, without a belief in evil is actually highly realistic, since in physical life it will keep your body healthier, keep you psychologically free of many fears and mental difficulties, and bring you a feeling of ease and spontaneity in which the development of your abilities can be better fulfilled. After death it will release you from the belief in demons and hell, and enforced punishment. You will be better prepared to understand the nature of reality as it is. I understand that the concept does indeed offend your intellect, and that your senses seem to deny it. Yet, you should already realize that your senses tell you many things, which are not true; and I tell you that your physical senses perceive a reality that is a result of your beliefs.

Believing in evils, you will of course perceive them. Your world has not tried the experiment as yet which would release you. Christianity was a distortion of this main truth – that is, organized Christianity as you know it. I am not simply speaking here of the original precepts. They were hardly given a chance, and we will discuss some of this later in the book.

The experiment that would transform your world would operate upon the basic idea that you create your own reality according to the nature of your beliefs, and that all existence was blessed, and that evil did not exist in it. If these ideas were followed individually and collectively, then the evidence of your physical senses would find no contradiction. They would perceive the world and existence as good.

This is the experiment that has not been tried, and these are the truths that you must learn after physical death. Some, after death, understanding these truths, choose to return to physical existence and explain them. Through the centuries this has been the way. In the system of probabilities that originates within physical reality, this is also the case.

There are systems of probability not connected with your own system at all, much more advanced than any you presently imagine, and in these, the truths of which I have been speaking are well known. In them individuals creatively and purposely create realities, knowing how to do so, and giving full rein to the creative abilities of consciousness.”

--------------------------------
One needs to examine their own beliefs and expectations before ascribing negative attributes to a Generally Positive Universe. If it was generally Negative, it wouldn't exist.

In Unity, Peace and Love

[Snowflower]

I read through the responses and saw one word pop out over and over: fear.

And that led me to thinking about the thread I started about religion versus spirituality, because so much in religion is based in fear. Fear of judgment. Fear of going to he'll. Fear of being alone. Fear of doing it wrong.

So, my next thought was, what if the people of the world are starting to wake up from their religion-induced fear state? How would the reptilians that run the place reinstall fear - because fear is a potent emotion that makes manipulation easy?

Wahlah! Let's start a "new-agey" style religion! We'll base the fear on aliens instead of god!

And what an amazing irony - to turn someone away from that incredible light through fear. Not that I think it could be effective at the moment of facing that light, because one of the functions of the light is to erase fear. But it could keep you in a new level of fear over the anxiety of dealing with your future death during your life - and that is when your fear matters to them anyway.

[lightseeker]

Well said Kindred, it has been many years since I have read "Seth Speaks", me thinks it is time to refresh what I already know.

[Joe Akulis]

I think there are quite a few people here on avalon who know how to astral travel, and have lots of experience of higher realms. Wonder what they say about it.

[ikkibu]

Just wondering if someone has an opinion on that :


Some alien researchers say that not only do ET's manipulate our physical bodies in this world, but they also deceive us after we've died. Robert Morningsky warns us not to go into the white light we see when we die because it is a trap to further our enslavement and put us straight back into another body. He says to stop, look around, go out into space and find your own light. The white light is used as a reprogramming centre to install amnesia and screw up our lives because we forget our past lives from this. Susan Reed reports that reptilians erase our past life memories so our subconscious believes we have more karma to pay back than we really do. This also fits in with the Wingmakers guy James who talks about Anu creating an artificial world and luring and trapping souls into it so he can be king of the world.

Hi Azt
Your post triggered me to share a strange dream i had a week ago or so.

It was so clear and vivid, i was floating as a white\yellowish glowing orb and i could observe myself as this orb from outside, as i floated away from earth and i could actually see the earth getting smaller, there was this beautiful white light that was pulling me towards it! It was so bright and it felt so warm and it made me feel very peaceful, i could see other orbs also going towards the light hundreds of them all around me, also leaving earth. But suddenly i felt uneasy like there is something wrong here, and i had a feeling inside me that said don't go there STOP! Well next thing i know i am back in my body in my bed awake but i cant move, my head was turned to the left looking at my girlfriend sleeping next to me.

Here i need to stop and add that i have lately had a few of these sleep paralysis experiences five that i remember(it started some time after i turned 30 in September), i am awake but i just cant move. So what i always do when i am in this state i start to fight it, it feels like my tendons are going to snap my muscles are burning and i am hyperventilating but i just keep fighting until something pops and i can slowly start to move again. Now back to what happened next, as i was looking at my girlfriend i felt something beside the bed looking at me, it was in the foot end of the bed on my side, i started to try and turn my head to see what i felt, as i got my head turned to where i felt it all i could see was a grey fog like thing but it disappeared as soon as i got my head turned to it. At this point my girlfriend woke up because i was hyperventilating so loudly, and the second she touched my arm i could move again.

This is not the first time i have felt "IT" its a very bad feeling the presence gives me, i will post more details about this another time because i have felt this presence since i was a child, so it will be a lengthy story to tell.
i haven't told my girlfriend about the grey fog thing because it would just freak her out. Just wanted to share regarding the light thing:)

[Wind]

SLdl_yMTOMM


Dr. Eben Alexander NDE. Thousands of people have had near-death experiences, but scientists have argued that they are impossible. Dr. Eben Alexander was one of those scientists. A highly trained neurosurgeon, Alexander knew that NDEs feel real, but are simply fantasies produced by brains under extreme stress.

Then, Dr. Alexander's own brain was attacked by a rare illness. The part of the brain that controls thought and emotion—and in essence makes us human—shut down completely. For seven days he lay in a coma. Then, as his doctors considered stopping treatment, Alexander's eyes popped open. He had come back.

Alexander's recovery is a medical miracle. But the real miracle of his story lies elsewhere. While his body lay in coma, Alexander journeyed beyond this world and encountered an angelic being who guided him into the deepest realms of super-physical existence. There he met, and spoke with, the Divine source of the universe itself.

Alexander's story is not a fantasy. Before he underwent his journey, he could not reconcile his knowledge of neuroscience with any belief in heaven, God, or the soul. Today Alexander is a doctor who believes that true health can be achieved only when we realize that God and the soul are real and that death is not the end of personal existence but only a transition.

This story would be remarkable no matter who it happened to. That it happened to Dr. Alexander makes it revolutionary. No scientist or person of faith will be able to ignore it. Reading it will change your life. http://www.lifebeyonddeath.net/

[Billy]

This topic has been debated on Avalon before. Here.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59056-Going-into-light-after-death...-or-not

This was my response.




When you live life on earth as an example of Love in action, You create your own light. You shine.

Only one question you will ask yourself when you passover, Did i love. You will know the answer.

Do not worry about which light to follow after death. Live a life of love in the moment then the light you follow will be yours.

Shine on, Peace.

Within the many prisms of consciousness and love there are many colours. Violet, Blue, Yellow, gold, white, Etc.

It is very simple.

Which one you create depends on how you lived your life on earth. Now is the time to take responsibility for your choosing,

If there exists a light trap for souls and you follow it after passing, then it is only because you did not do your homework while you had the choice here on earth.

Have no fear. read my signature.

Peace

[naste.de.lumina]

Friends .
I think ..

It is termed the quantum physics ' collapse of the wave function (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_function_collapse) ' in the moment that the observer (consciousness ) transforms the probability wave in the particle.
Ie , sends the command to the electrons (waves ) , turn particles thus creating the reality to be experienced.
The ' collapse of the wave function ' is therefore one who creates the physical reality perceived .
It is important to emphasize that the ' collapse of the wave function ' only creates what is believed to be true .
Thus , the belief is of fundamental importance in the possible realities being lived .
This occurs both in the perception of life as after death ( death does not exist ) .
Because after we die we come to exist in a dimension often more subtle , less dense , the creation of reality by the observer ( consciousness) occurs much faster .
And this perceived reality is based on what is believed to be living .
So if what you believe does not contradict the ultimate reality , it is created to be experienced . For good or for evil .
Thus , the fear of things and situations that occur here on Earth , also occurred after ' death ' .
If you are in fear is because you believe , if you believe you create .

Hugs .

[CD7]

All I know is I have NO RECALL now---that has always sent red flags to me over and over...it bothers me to no end that I YOU, HIM, HER, THEM HAVE ABSOLUTLEY NO IDEA WHO THEY ARE OR WHERE THEY CAME FROM?!


So whats the problem with this?? Everyone AND anyone can TELL YOU ANYTHING about who you are, where you came from, and where your going...just like this thread~ ITS all WE do over and over and over and over and over and over again---CONTEMPLATE OURSELVES WHILE WE HAVE NO FIRST HAND KNOWLEGDE FROM SELF

Hummm what to think about this??? Someone or something has hidden us from ourselves?....we are in a school where for some reason we are to KNOW nothing? Other guesses could go on and on and on......until we die!!! And the kicker is NOONE comes back to tell the tale...OUR EXISTENCE IS NON SENSICAL when one really contemplates our REALITY in this moment


I would LOVE to see this change --FOR ALL INVOLVED


May we know who we are, where we came from, and know where we are going!!! AND SO IT IS !!!

[Lifebringer]

There was no bright light when I died on the table, I just hovered above my body in the corner ceiling of the room for awhile and when my child was born decided I wanted to be there, then was sucked in as they placed the paddles on my chest, after pulling her out. She was breech birth, and my body cardioarrested from the stress.

[Shezbeth]

I apologize, you asked if I have an opinion and I referred you to that of others.

My opinion is that I lack sufficient information/experience to answer that question with certainty. I have versed myself with countless ideologies that would prescribe going towards the light, still more which advise escaping it. The majority (in person) seem to agree to go toward the light, and I find that in most things majority is reliably incorrect/misinformed. I for one can't be sure there even IS a light, because I haven't died nor had NDE; Sorry, but my attempts to 'not die' thus far have been successful.

I suggest that anyone who claims to 'know' is talking out both ends.

If death is in any way comparable to life, if there is a choice to be made at that point - one being conducive and one not - I do not expect to have the conducive choice granted or given. If then, I am pulled toward the light I shall resist. Likewise, if I am pushed away by the light I will go toward it.

I like what Markpierre said about eating reptiles, I had long since resolved to do so of any entity demanding/seeking my fealty/obeisance/substance. I agree with Chocolate and Billyji that concern for proper living is far more relevant than concern for what to do when dying.

I will answer with certainty after that point if I am so inclined, though I wouldn't rule out having other more pressing matters to attend.

[Crystine]

In answer to the question about the white light being a trap. If someone really does know. They are not telling. Better to always live in YOUR moment. So much of what we are afraid of is instilled by others. It is a lack of personal knowledge. When you get to the point of life where you previously thought there should be a bright light..............it will most likely be a door to open. Which you will do. Have faith in yourself. It will be exactly the right door, for YOU. Thank you Kindread for bringing that thought out of me. Like your quote.....always on time. Have faith that there will always be a deeper goodness working on your behalf. (Sp?)

[waves]

All I know is I have NO RECALL now---that has always sent red flags to me over and over...it bothers me to no end that I YOU, HIM, HER, THEM HAVE ABSOLUTLEY NO IDEA WHO THEY ARE OR WHERE THEY CAME FROM?!


So whats the problem with this?? Everyone AND anyone can TELL YOU ANYTHING about who you are, where you came from, and where your going...just like this thread~ ITS all WE do over and over and over and over and over and over again---CONTEMPLATE OURSELVES WHILE WE HAVE NO FIRST HAND KNOWLEGDE FROM SELF

Hummm what to think about this??? Someone or something has hidden us from ourselves?....we are in a school where for some reason we are to KNOW nothing? Other guesses could go on and on and on......until we die!!! And the kicker is NOONE comes back to tell the tale...OUR EXISTENCE IS NON SENSICAL when one really contemplates our REALITY in this moment


I would LOVE to see this change --FOR ALL INVOLVED


May we know who we are, where we came from, and know where we are going!!! AND SO IT IS !!!

LOL. After all these years of 1000's of hours of reading, watching, listening, being, trying to get answers... I think this is the most glaringly direct, honest and true summation of human existence I've ever read.

All I can add.... there have been moments all these years when I believed every one of the other viewpoints presented so far here. I don't trust any right now.

My current suspicion is that the big picture/origin of soul/nature of consciousness is much, much bigger than my human mind can wrap around, and all the viewpoints presented here are our feeble attempt and need to have some comfortable answer.

[Tony]

I've read through the Tibetan Book of the dead many times, and done the practice for those passed on, and have had teachings on the subject.

Basically, all appearances are a projection of one's own mind. That is why we practice non distraction. There are bright lights and dim lights, the bright light invites us to higher realms, and the dim light leads us to lower realms.

We only have a choice if we have practiced throughout our life. If we have not practiced and just done our own thing, then we are driven by our karma. One only has to observe how we over react in life to see that we are not in control...

There is much more to this. This is only the Tibetan Buddhist view, and others of course see it differently.




Tony

[Joe Akulis]

From http://www.near-death.com/experiences/cayce01.html#a03

"Cayce scholar Henry Reed states that Cayce went up and up through a very large column, passing by all the horrible things without coming in contact personally with them, and came out where there was the house of records. Cayce stated that as he ascended the column, there would be beings on either side of him calling out to him for help or trying to get his attention. Cayce knew that any deviation from the column and the beam of light would mean he would not be able to return to his body. It, the column, wound around on a wheel like the Rotarians have.

Cayce mentioned that he felt very secure traveling this way."


This was a nice clue for me, when I used to have questions about the tunnel of light.

Later, when I combined this with all the other NDE stories I've read, and then the works of Robert Monroe, where he ends up distingushing for us the various levels of 4d consciousness, and then the works of Bruce Moen, where he performs all sorts of astral rescue work in the 4d realms, I then had a pretty good understanding of what the tunnel is for. And I had a wonderful new understanding of what the belief-system territories are that he passes by, with the horrible things that wanted to come out and contact him on the way by.

If you're sitting in the lower, near-earth astral--what Cayce called "the void"--and your fears are about to eat you alive, calling for help produces the tunnel of light. I've read posts from NDE experiencers on the IANDS website, http://iands.org/home.html who have said this exact thing. They also have said that thinking you are "unworthy" of the kingdom of heaven because you are just a lowly sinner has caused that tunnel to close, and utter despair would often ensue.

Perhaps if one understood that the tunnel was a pathway to the higher areas of 4d consciousness, or the reception area, or "The Park", as it is often called, then maybe one would be less reluctant to leap in.

However, and here's the important part, I have also read NDE accounts of people who are stopped at certain points along the way in this tunnel upwards and told that "this is as far as you can go." Why? Not because they didn't merit some silly heavenly rewards. Because both their beliefs and their personal experience has not yet risen enough to allow them to comfortably dwell in any higher area of 4d consciousness.

That tells me, you need to put your curiostity cap on, baby, because all you have to do is ask, and the answers come rolling in, especially in this time we are in. It has never been easier to find answers. But if you're not asking, then the spiritual aids who stand ready willing and able to help you with your evolution, well, they have to sit idle, because to hit you over the head with higher truths without being asked would be an abrogation of your free will.

And while you're feeding the hunger to seek, learn up on meditation and start exploring those higher energies. Learn them. Control them. Become comfortable using and existing with them, via meditation.

Then maybe when you hop on the expressway past all the muck and mire of the twisted belief system territories in the mid astral of 4d, you won't get any flat tires.

If you actually believe that we "can't know the answers" to what's waiting for us beyond death, then you are simply at the early stages of your search. Those frontiers are becoming more well known to mankind every day. And everyone out there is waiting for YOU to start your journey upwards and outwards, with open arms.


P.S. Don't think that I'm not also aware of all the negative things that can also trip you up along the way, including yourself. But if fear is what keeps you from learning, and growing, and asking, then they've won. And you continue to remain a coppertop battery for them. Want help with fear? Go to http://ascension101.com/ and read some of Inelia's advice on ways to work with your fears.

[Sunny-side-up]

Seconded CD7

I have never feared death!
I have always had an inner knowing that there is more to life!
I have always believed we are truly of a spiritual nature but have been separated from full connection (but not all connection)!
I believe we are being manipulated!
Manipulated either by something other dimensional (or at least something very powerful at manipulation)!
This might actually turn out to be our own mind, as mentioned we are co-creators and knowing us we probably are our own worst enemy Doh!
I understand the what you think of you are (good and bad)

I'm not a fear-porn munger it's just lately I can't help, while pondering my many experiences of this existence; that we do always have choices and that it might well be one of 'freely get pulled into the tunnel' or 'stop to look before you jump'!

[Rocky_Shorz]

There was no bright light when I died on the table, I just hovered above my body in the corner ceiling of the room for awhile and when my child was born decided I wanted to be there, then was sucked in as they placed the paddles on my chest, after pulling her out. She was breech birth, and my body cardioarrested from the stress.

you weren't meant to leave, being gifted your subconscious took over and passed images of what was going on in the room...

you wanted to see your child, and that pull was strong enough to make leaving impossible...

if you would have passed ( Thank God you didn't) you could have become one of the wandering souls, not realizing all you have to do is say OK I'm ready and the light would appear...

I have turned on the light for lost souls to enter, I think we all have the ability being Spiritual beings...


Saint Woodward stepped through with one foot and stopped, turning back to help the people he loved and the light follows him everywhere...

I was able to see through to Nirvanna while talking with him...

so no, I'm not worried and it wasn't a tunnel, more like a dimensional doorway opening.

it wasn't just once I saw it, he was around me for over a week, trying to get the message to me on Kissinger and the Bush cronies that killed hundreds of thousands in South America on a Commi hunt...

[Joe Akulis]

"I believe we are being manipulated!
Manipulated either by something other dimensional (or at least something very powerful at manipulation)!"

Ah. Does this mean you seek to learn more about the matrix?

Side note: I just rented Cloud Atlas. I LOVED the way they brought back Hugo Weaving and used him. Gee, can you say putting a face on the matrix anyone? :-)
"There is a natural order to this world, and those who try to upend it do not fare well."

[Calz]

I come here in this thread in humility ... cuz I simply don't know.

It would seem the Universe has a plan to change the story every time I learn something.


Soon as it became clear death was not to be feared and part of life ... then the stories like this of *not* following the light popped up.


Greatest comfort I had was the clearly truthful stories pouring from the NDE'rs ... and now come the stories of those are controlled by the "dark".


WTF???


Clearly forces are doing their best to make sure there is a high level of confusion in "these times".


Wish I had more to offer ... yet when many (if not most ... or all) sources of "downloaded" spiritual information regardless of source are to be questioned then all I can do is offer my own bewildered sympathy.


Whenever I get to a place I feel "I know" ... something happens.


IMHO

[Joe Akulis]

Thank you so much for jumping in, Rocky! People need to know that it's not just conjecture. That at a certain point in your seeking, you come to a realization: Hey, I can do this stuff too!

Developing a talent can often take numerous lifetimes. Edgar Cayce didn't just magically understand how to go into trance and navigate to the akashic records. He had a previous life where he was stranded in a desert and things became so painful for him that he forced himself to learn how to separate from his body. Now that's what I call a catalyst! A leap here, a step there, some new skills in the other lifetime, eventually you become someone who can heal, or paint like a master, or play piano like mozart... Becoming familliar with the afterlife, or the beforelife, or the in-between life, while you are on this side of the veil is something you can do. But if it's like one of those term papers where you may need say, 4 good lifetimes to really get the hang of it, would you put off the beginning of that work? Or take it up with patience?

:-)

[Maia Gabrial]

If you listen to what the Galactic Historian says, the Earth's reincarnation system was hijacked by the 15 powerful interdimensional beings. The Council that reads our life readings were corrupted and don't give proper life readings upon death, so it's just another way we got screwed over. Yeah, I'd say it's a trap....

[markpierre]

I apologize, you asked if I have an opinion and I referred you to that of others.

My opinion is that I lack sufficient information/experience to answer that question with certainty. I have versed myself with countless ideologies that would prescribe going towards the light, still more which advise escaping it. The majority (in person) seem to agree to go toward the light, and I find that in most things majority is reliably incorrect/misinformed. I for one can't be sure there even IS a light, because I haven't died nor had NDE; Sorry, but my attempts to 'not die' thus far have been successful.

I suggest that anyone who claims to 'know' is talking out both ends.

If death is in any way comparable to life, if there is a choice to be made at that point - one being conducive and one not - I do not expect to have the conducive choice granted or given. If then, I am pulled toward the light I shall resist. Likewise, if I am pushed away by the light I will go toward it.

I like what Markpierre said about eating reptiles, I had long since resolved to do so of any entity demanding/seeking my fealty/obeisance/substance. I agree with Chocolate and Billyji that concern for proper living is far more relevant than concern for what to do when dying.

I will answer with certainty after that point if I am so inclined, though I wouldn't rule out having other more pressing matters to attend.

This is interesting, in that the premise of the thread has me really working on reconciling my own beliefs on the matter. It's been a long time since I've had much interest in it. I've never had the idea that there was something 'out there' waiting to attack me or absorb me, but a lot of years of unworthiness and worry over the consequences of unworthiness. I think that all that's happened for me is a slowly developing trust that 'all is well' and that a bigger game is in play.

But that includes a few memories of prior deaths, and the peace and relief and joy of those moments of leaving the body. Those preceded unresolved traumatic memories of the experiences that culminated in those deaths. 'Culminated' sounds kind of funny. It feels more like a 'reboot'.

It also has to include moments of 'giving up' in situations as diverse as being in an out of control car spinning in circles down an icy freeway, or sitting on a stump and expanding out into the rainforest. Doesn't seem like anything I've willingly done, though 'giving up' in panic, has always proven to be the solution for it. We all seem inclined to struggle against the current to the point of exhaustion, if we believe there's a waterfall downstream. It seems reasonable.

I'll have to say that of all the experiences I've had with 'the dead' and 'the dying', the topic of lights and tunnels never came up. Even a very few that returned to express gratitude, or simply 'to report' (if that was useful for me, I don't know), still no mention of lights or tunnels.

"though I wouldn't rule out having other more pressing matters to attend" is beautiful in it's pragmatism. My mother came to me 3 days after she died. It was simply a vision of what she wanted me to know as how she felt. Young and beautiful and free and excited, which was reassuring for me. Or maybe a vision of what I'd hope for her. Who knows.
But it was clear that she was anxious to get on with her own business. In contrast, my father visited immediately after passing (the next night) and was in a state of turmoil over what he considered failures. He kept a sense of regret for a time. Is that pre-light? Post-light? I don't know. Is that all in my imagination? Could be.

I do think it's a case of wait and see. I also think it's practical if we hold a fear and dread of death, because it's so inevitable, it might be wise to address fear and dread before hand. We may be liable to conjure up anything, if conjuring is what we're doing now. I'm not so sure about eating the reptilian, but it may be possible to step up to it and tell it to f-off. You're right. It does work in the here/now far better than I'd imagined. Personally, I think that's all we're really doing here at this point in the exercise.

What has occurred in me, and this is the difference for me between belief and 'certainty', is that my fear of death has diminished to the degree that I'm far more willing (and able) to address fears here and now, as they confront me.

In my experience (so far) there's been nothing more exhilarating than having the thought 'oh-oh, now I'm dead', and discovering I was wrong.

[greybeard]

The Mystics for many thousands of years have been saying One thing consistently.
In-spite of what seems to be the case---there is only one soul, one consciousness, one Self and you are That.
Unity consciousness--Oneness call it what you will---that is your true nature.
The only thing to fear is fear and in this illusion in whos interest is it to keep people in fear---expecting to rescued saved
by some outside influence.

There is nothing outside which is not first and foremost inside.

The sages warn that your last thoughts before you die will take you to what you believe to be your heaven or hell.
(In my Father house are many mansions) Jesus quote.

If your thoughts are still believing that the illusion is the only truth, then guess what, you have not graduated from earth school and you will reincarnate here yet again.

Chris

[Rocky_Shorz]

Thank you so much for jumping in, Rocky! People need to know that it's not just conjecture. That at a certain point in your seeking, you come to a realization: Hey, I can do this stuff too!

Developing a talent can often take numerous lifetimes. Edgar Cayce didn't just magically understand how to go into trance and navigate to the akashic records. He had a previous life where he was stranded in a desert and things became so painful for him that he forced himself to learn how to separate from his body. Now that's what I call a catalyst! A leap here, a step there, some new skills in the other lifetime, eventually you become someone who can heal, or paint like a master, or play piano like mozart... Becoming familliar with the afterlife, or the beforelife, or the in-between life, while you are on this side of the veil is something you can do. But if it's like one of those term papers where you may need say, 4 good lifetimes to really get the hang of it, would you put off the beginning of that work? Or take it up with patience?

:-)

it's really quite simple...

Heaven is perfect and we aren't, that's why we keep coming back for the ride...

some people get tired and retire, some of us are gluttons for punishment...

my girlfriend said she didn't believe in reincarnation, so I asked her if she'd want to stay in heaven if she couldn't have sex...

all the fun stuff is here, even the pain is a learning experience we needed and wanted to feel alive...

I'll be first in line for the next roller coaster ride... ;)

[Carmody]

I come here in this thread in humility ... cuz I simply don't know.

It would seem the Universe has a plan to change the story every time I learn something.


Soon as it became clear death was not to be feared and part of life ... then the stories like this of *not* following the light popped up.


Greatest comfort I had was the clearly truthful stories pouring from the NDE'rs ... and now come the stories of those are controlled by the "dark".


WTF???


Clearly forces are doing their best to make sure there is a high level of confusion in "these times".


Wish I had more to offer ... yet when many (if not most ... or all) sources of "downloaded" spiritual information regardless of source are to be questioned then all I can do is offer my own bewildered sympathy.


Whenever I get to a place I feel "I know" ... something happens.


IMHO

...now you're getting it.....

No rest for the wicked. :p

Or... there is no comfort to be achieved in aspect of pursuing knowing. Only in willful ignorance, or in the knowing, is the comfort achieved. The rest.....is the view from the road.

[Rocky_Shorz]

If you listen to what the Galactic Historian says, the Earth's reincarnation system was hijacked by the 15 powerful interdimensional beings. The Council that reads our life readings were corrupted and don't give proper life readings upon death, so it's just another way we got screwed over. Yeah, I'd say it's a trap....

the alternative is...

people that don't believe in a beyond get up from the casket, brush themselves off and wander for an eternity as a cold heartless spirit...

they step into live beings to re-experience life, many times causing their host misery and illness...

is that the future you are looking for?

why would anyone talk you into staying, twisting fear in your mind to prevent what comes naturally to all of us?

[Rocky_Shorz]

If you listen to what the Galactic Historian says, the Earth's reincarnation system was hijacked by the 15 powerful interdimensional beings. The Council that reads our life readings were corrupted and don't give proper life readings upon death, so it's just another way we got screwed over. Yeah, I'd say it's a trap....

do you have the number to the Galactic Historian?

We need to talk...


let me pull on my pointy toed boots, I have 15 interdimensional butts to kick...

[naste.de.lumina]

Azt thanks for this post, I do share your concern/observation about the "Light"
That is a great point in our journey to set a trap!

I have tried to start conservation posts on this subject before.

In said posts I explained my experiences with forbidden Taoist Breathing exercises!
What I experienced was amazing and I believe it was the Light-Tunnel-Entrance,
but from a static viewpoint IE I wasn't dying but visiting under my own awake consciousness.
What you see then because of being still/observing are the objects that make up the Light;
because you aren't hurtling down through them as too blur them into a bright light!

I also believe the ET's that imprison us (As talked about in so many articles/vid's/interviews and posts); the ones that enslave us for our energies by repeatedly diverting us back into this circle/cycle of so called life (A diminished pale version of life) are actually "Djinns"
Who are the first and continued deceivers of Humanity, they are great shape shifters of themselfs and our perceived view of reality.

You have choices at that point, you do!

markpierre you say
"Nothing and no one can erase who you are. Your human identity isn't that important to you when you've left form anyway.
It isn't very important now.
The answer to the question you've asked is no."

Well I've also herd and read so many articles/vid's/interviews and posts that say we have been repeatedly on a massive scale concussed of knowledge and our history, true ancestry; many, many times and what we are all fighting for now, in these great days have been "Not to let it happen again"

So yes! I truly do believe there is a trap that we (Not all) fall into time after time, after time!

Time to Break that chain:wizard:

My friend Sunny-side-up.

After a long time thinking about this issue that raised , the following might occur :

Extradimensional entities you mentioned , could be extraterrestrial or disembodied spirits , no matter , as we ( incarnate ) , we have a vibration (frequency ) that determines our reality and track course ( we are in phase with this frequency ) .
When we die , and our consciousness or spirit is released from the body, leaving to suffer interference from frequency body . The vibration determines where to go to get to the other side. N possibilities frequency . We went back to being a conscious electromagnetic field . Frequency energy .... .... Phase .

We may indeed be attracted to frequencies of reality, where these entities owns certain domain
Regardless if it is because they are disembodied or through technology.
An example :
The individual dies and gets there with no idea where it is. Same was when he was incarnate. Do not know who it is, where it came from and where it goes .
It also does not bother to acquire knowledge to try to find out .
Car, house and apartment were his main concern for life .
Do not you know no law of action and reaction . It is he who creates reality . Do not believe in extraterrestrial . Spirits are ghosts . He knows nothing .
Easy prey to any entity a bit malicious . There are millions .
Easily fooled . Not to mention that this ignorance led to a frequency where there are many like him . But many know exactly how things work in this reality , are smart , it is only the negative vibration is low , the frequency of them has to rise as it is negative . But they learn , and still wanting power.

On the other hand, if your consciousness is expanded , you seek self-knowledge , is pursuing a path of wisdom , to die , you will naturally for a range of reality where the frequency is much higher , positive . So the possibility that there exist entities that have the intent to deceive , will be much smaller .

It is possible .

Hug,

[Rocky_Shorz]

the Blue Dude laughed...

we are being watched over so closely that what is being shared isn't possible...

what makes us all special is our Spirits, where we are from and going back to...

if they want Spirits, there are billions wandering earth, they could grab one of them and it wouldn't be noticed...

can you imagine if the Avalon Collective was trapped for even a moment...

their dimension would disappear from our timeline...

we are quick Judges and Juries...

I have seen so many who have crossed over with no problems, maybe the trap is known as Hell for the Illuminati and Bush's buddies...

[DarMar]

Yo take 1 girl and call 10 men to judge how she looks.
To one she is brigh, other she is dark, for some maybe fat and for some very thinny. While in actuality she is simply a girl.
Same goes here.
There is light, for some is bad, for some is good, for some is dim and for some have prismatic colors.
That are all perpectives, and while new age terminology teaches people that perspective can change actuality is quite a nonsensical story.
The only thing you can actually change is perspective, no more or less.
It is like music from CD and stereo.. CD is recorded on certain volume level, yet you have power to make music louder on stereo... actual recording level is still the same on CD.

That light in its actuality is NOT natural manifestation, it is produced. It has purpose and does it well.
How ever you may perceive it, it does job well... you end here again and again without grain of knowing wtf did just happened.
All rest is philosophy and perception.
Actual evidence is obvious.

[Rocky_Shorz]

when I call in protection for a healing I close my eyes, and watch as small lights slowly surround me until it is solid...

what are the lights, they are tiny, much smaller than the orbs seen in pictures...

when you say produced, I guess the little lights could be directed, but they were called by me...

heaven's light is different, like standing in front of a spotlight, blinding close your eyes brightness...

Spirits do sit around discussing their past life, so it isn't forgotten when crossing, but slate is cleared before someone steps back in to start the learning again...

[778 neighbour of some guy]

I come here in this thread in humility ... cuz I simply don't know.

It would seem the Universe has a plan to change the story every time I learn something.


Soon as it became clear death was not to be feared and part of life ... then the stories like this of *not* following the light popped up.


Greatest comfort I had was the clearly truthful stories pouring from the NDE'rs ... and now come the stories of those are controlled by the "dark".


WTF???


Clearly forces are doing their best to make sure there is a high level of confusion in "these times".


Wish I had more to offer ... yet when many (if not most ... or all) sources of "downloaded" spiritual information regardless of source are to be questioned then all I can do is offer my own bewildered sympathy.


Whenever I get to a place I feel "I know" ... something happens.


IMHO

Bahahaha, sorry about the laughter but you said it very well Calz, I think of it as being extremely funny actually, every time I felt pride or boasted about things in my "younger" years it was as if the universe/creator/ source dropped a massive pile of dung on me and said "ah, you again, well lets see how you handle this one then eh, maybe then you understand when its time to shut the hell up and work in silence", humility is an awesome thing and keeping things to yourself is an amazing source of strength all by its self.

And the trap thingie eh, no clue, very confusing and ah well, could be true or not, giving a rats @ss about it sucks the life straight out of me so I rather not, however it IS an intriguing subject and if I can choose I rather have the fuzzy stupid grinning angel waiting for me with a cold beer a big joint and a box of Cohiba's and a hi five then a row of lizards with a boner, jar of Vaseline and glued on long eyelashes winking seductively at me.

That was about my 0.5 cents of no contribution, unless someone thinks it made some sort of sense that is;).

So I have my reservations and preferences, you can tell cant you:rolleyes:?

Hope I didn't embarrass you here Calz, I can imagine if you want to distance yourself from me after this one, however I think we're cool:o

[Calz]

Hope I didn't embarrass you here Calz, I can imagine if you want to distance yourself from me after this one, however I think we're cool:o

When one puts out something in humility ... there is no ego at stake yes???

Yes ... quite cool ...

[schneider]

According to Tibetan info that I received from a Rinpoche, the bright white light seen in the bardo state(death) should be avoided. Some body posted read The Tibetan Book of the Dead but just google it and you will get some info.

[Calz]

this book says this ...

that book says that ...


this person says this (perhaps compromised) ...

that person says that (perhaps compromised) ...


again ... in humility ... wtf is really going on here???

[Shezbeth]

Agreed Calz. I gave the question the full extent of my creative/critical faculties, given my limited understanding of the alleged 'light' phenomena, but beyond a simple 'If/Then' assessment I find the question to be largely ego-centered. A better question IMO is why is this important/relevant?

I won't rule out my own ego in seeking to answer the question. Can one participate in a thread like this (in the immediate) and a forum (at large) without ego? Probably questions for another thread,....

[Hervé]

One way to blaze a trail in there is to compare the accounts of abductees, contactees, NDErs, etc. and see if there are any similarities or differences...

[greybeard]

A standard question.
Where is God in all this?

Im not of any religion but do have very strong faith.

So
In God I trust.

Chris

[Ellisa]

Caiz-- I think it's because no one knows what happens after death, except the obvious, that is we cease to be- we are no longer a functioning being because our brain has stopped working, forever and completely. Perhaps we can derive some comfort in the thought that we live in the memories of others who knew us, either personally or in our deeds. Personally I find that the notion that I have one go at life of any sort makes me treasure the life i have, and helps me to appreciate the fact that I am alive. I also personally find that I am happy to contemplate the notion that one day what is left of me will return to the stardust of which everything is made, but maybe that is a romantic fiction too.

No one knows about life after death, but neither do we know about life before birth. You could wonder where was the essential 'you' before birth? But sometimes the truth is simple. i think we are born- we live- we die!

As for the 'white light'. I think it has been recognised to be a symptom of the failing brain closing down, though not all people who have NDE actually see it.

[Calz]

Thank you Amzer Zo as always ... yet if looking for answers .... comparing those groups don't necessarily offer "the answer"???

Or did I miss something???

Many questions ... hopefully there will be some answers?

[Anchor]

this book says this ...

that book says that ...


this person says this (perhaps compromised) ...

that person says that (perhaps compromised) ...


again ... in humility ... wtf is really going on here???


>> wtf is really going on here???

You are.

Thats the thing, and you appear to have it by instinct. I have said on the forum often before, trust no-one but yourself; this is meant in its most literal and non-judgmental form.

What makes you fear? These are the prison bars.

If there is a trap, IMO, we already stepped in it and it was not an accident.

We are Houdini's in this context - we will figure this sucker out eventually.

[Hervé]

Thank you Amzer Zo as always ... yet if looking for answers .... comparing those groups don't necessarily offer "the answer"???

Or did I miss something???

...

Well, yes... and that's what I forgot to write down... :frusty:

... anyway, there are other sets of data to compare with as well and those are coming from the accounts from past lives and the "In Between Lives" area of one's memories...

I agree, it won't be THE answer, just an answer concerning the question of the thread suited to one's tendencies, inclinations and/or degree of awareness...

As far as I am concerned, there isn't much difference between the white light experienced by many NDErs and the "beam" experienced by abductees that pulled them into some craft once the screen memories have been done with...

Simon Parkes (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30323-Simon-Parkes-about-Mantis-Aliens-Reptiles-and-other-aliens.)' experience kind of ties everything in when his "mentor" makes him experience a calm and tranquil environment when in actual reality they are aboard a craft... which makes me think that, maybe, the craft is the illusion and the calm and tranquil environment is the actual reality... never mind the clown or the policeman... glad they didn't try Jesus with him... see what I mean?

[Agape]

Just wondering if someone has an opinion on that :


Some alien researchers say that not only do ET's manipulate our physical bodies in this world, but they also deceive us after we've died. Robert Morningsky warns us not to go into the white light we see when we die because it is a trap to further our enslavement and put us straight back into another body. He says to stop, look around, go out into space and find your own light. The white light is used as a reprogramming centre to install amnesia and screw up our lives because we forget our past lives from this. Susan Reed reports that reptilians erase our past life memories so our subconscious believes we have more karma to pay back than we really do. This also fits in with the Wingmakers guy James who talks about Anu creating an artificial world and luring and trapping souls into it so he can be king of the world.



White light or not .., follow the Elders advice and don't get trapped . Human dimension is but one of many surrounding us , and further you get they are going to be more complicated , not less .

There's a truth in that statement ..for people who expect to move to world with less complications after they quit here , everyone has to pass through these vast dimensions of consciousness, light, and love , formless worlds , almost everyone that is, yes it's a trap .
Even the oldest teachings say formless dimensions are trap . Even if you are there for infinity of your perceptional existence , you will feel called back by your 'purpose' .

It says 'someone is home' , someone is there ... and it seems, once we walk out of here, the reality may take many times more complicated character so get ready ,
study well and keep walking ..

Discard every kind of illusion you meet, test every apparition you encounter, till they are illusory apparitions, they are transitory, they belong to the 'sphere' where lights and forms of consciousness also appear .

It may be long walk or short walk depending on how lucky you are and how far you want to get .. but do not give up to the dream of simplicity , once you are free of here you are free,
remember the Wise people of old and keep walking in their direction.. watch for signs.

Prove you are good being. There comes the justice that does not exist in this world as a matter of fact ..if you are honest and have pure heart, you pass .

If you are not, they turn you back. They don't want deceitful people who have 'aims' and ambitions , and prefs of the human category in the world of knowing .

They say there is still much to learn out there ...



I share this little piece of contemplation I've done recently when I wanted to walk out of this body and appear as we are ... I imagined actually doing so ,
I suspect I actually did it on couple of occasions in my life earlier ( and my 'ghost' was reportedly seen by those who knew me closely ) but not this time, I don't know anyway .
Just the perception and how it was .. in accelerated order .. I enjoyed walking free, light, translucent .. was shining with subtle inner glow but after some time,
walking among dense human beings,
I've turned tired and could not 'shine' enough so they'd see me well, and at the same time, they too appeared to be in mist .. could not see them very clearly ,
they were more difficult to reach .
After some time it was like walking in mist ..and dense structures we normally notice in this world did not have any bearing on it, there were strange long avenues and places that appeared lighter and blissful and places that felt sad ,
but there was no one to see on the way this time ..
because of the place I am now is in the city , and the time is not right .


That's how they say it's auspicious to leave the body close to a sacred place, mountain, temple , place which is known to be a portal, pathway to the spiritual world because there will be someone to meet you on the way .

If you are advanced enough , you don't have to go to any such place because the pathways lead through many places .. but it needs skills .

If you get lost ..and don't find a way, you will be longing for fellow beings after some time and there is strong impulse in each of us, attraction to warmths and love, or as I said earlier, a purpose .

Both good and bad people can follow their purposes after their leave one body, they jump on the next one .

Anyway , if you don't find a way , you will feel lonely and attracted to one of those loving cared for places where it feels and looks surrounded by light as well,
that love emanates from one dimension to another .. and you may end up joining another human rebirth . Sometimes it happens by will, choice, sometimes even by accident .



:ufo:

[Azt]

Just a "thank you so much" note to all for sharing all those valuable insights.

Definitely, Avalon is probably our modern version of "ancient Greek streets" where daily knowledge, wisdom and ideas is available for those who have just time to listen it.

This vision of ancient Greek streets with the big 3 (Socrates, Plato and Aristotle) lecturing their students while taking a walk...

Made me thinking of Aristotle in particular. He believed that the greatest human endeavor is the use of reason in theoretical activity.

One of his best known ideas was his conception of "The Golden Mean" — "avoid extremes," the counsel of moderation in all things.

Anyway, I do not have an answer myself what the white light is or do but the simply idea we could generate a discussion on that and exchange insights, it is a very powerful thing.

As we know, our current time-line (in this planet) is full of challenges and being here now is (on my opinion) a golden opportunity for all of us to try to make our best out of it and jump in on our collective thoughts.

Again, thank you everyone.

[Carmody]

It's a trap!

4F4qzPbcFiA

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?5402-Soul-harvester

Inching up on Halloween again, I see. People start to get freaked out.

Regarding astrology, which is about the fundamentals of the vibrational frequencies and patterns of the reality matrix called '3d time-space reality'....it's now 'Pluto time', the time of Scorpio, the change is on Oct 23rd. Pluto, the ruler of Hades.

What vibration does it bring us..into? This (overall world energy and thought pattern):

~~~~~~~~~~~~

In the birth chart, Pluto shows the area of life where you'll personally face the intense powers of creation and destruction. It's the doorway through which volatile compressed pockets of self, spirit and primal energy lies hidden, which are released either by our own efforts or by provocation from the outside world.

Pluto's energy will not be suppressed but its power is often feared. This can put you in a showdown between your greatest fears of being destroyed, and the pursuit of the deepest longing in your heart. The Ego holds to its defenses, but Pluto tries to urge you to let go, and surrender to become a new person.

Pluto rules Scorpio with its province being death and rebirth. There's a Sufi saying, "Die many times before you die," and Pluto's lessons hold out promise of emerging from the flames a new person. When chaotic events shake us at the foundations, it could be Pluto provoking change at the fundamental level. We might not think we exist without the ground beneath us, our sense of who we are, but if we're brave, we come to discover there is life after this kind of ego-death.

Pluto also governs power itself, including struggles between people and countries for domination, and of course, personal power. It shows up when perfectly capable people end up under the thumb of someone else's control. Facing down the control and manipulation of others, especially parents, can make us weak in the knees. But once we do this, we are changed forever.

[Crazy Louie]

apparently the soul knew how to get here without man's wisdom

likewise I think it will know how to leave - despite man's wisdom

[OMG]

If everything is a symbol then LIGHT rarely has any negative association to it. However, two negative aspects of light come to mind. BTW: These are often associated with the Illuminati.

1. When light shines into your eyes it can blind or inhibit your sight.

2. You can't see who is wielding the light.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

1. When light shines into your eyes it can blind or inhibit your sight.

2. You can't see who is wielding the light

Now there's something one should consider, the illuminating blinding logic of the above quote.

I agree with Calz once again on this matter.


this book says this ...

that book says that ...


this person says this (perhaps compromised) ...

that person says that (perhaps compromised) ...


again ... in humility ... wtf is really going on here???

Only to add to that, compromised writers, write compromised books, so wtf have you, me, we, everybody actually been reading, after editing, re editing, re re editting????

Was the writer compromised, by whom and for what reason, did or didn't the writer know he/ she was being compromised, if no he/she was doing business as usual just writing, if yes, the writer and therefore the reader is steered in the direction of a desired outcome, this outcome all by itself can be one for better or worse, preaching for own parish here I know, anywho, the resulting confusion is clearly beneficial to someone, so who and why is where this ends up again, big words like Illuminati, archons and shmaliens are just not cutting it anymore imo, whether they are here and for real doesn't even matter at this point, neither do vague things as, sources, insiders, whistleblowers, this guy who knows that dude who............, all this sh!t to make oneself sound really really impressive, somewhat intimidating and important.......blahblahblah, its obvious that all of the above have become completely unsatisfactory groups and qualifications to many of us and just as many of us are not falling into that trap again ( that's at least what we tell us everytime we fell for another one), so what are we left with now?

What are we left with?

Is this as solid as it gets? I don't want to believe that for a second, not one second, if we could have figured the above one out, we sure can figure out the next one, whatever that may be, we are not that cheap you know, at least that's how I see it, and if something is out there waiting to frame us, set us up for perpetual entering this world for its own benefits, ( farm us for whatever it is they are farming us for) well, to me that means we make up a part of the food chain, just like everything else does and thinking of who else might be out there to eat the farmers in turn, is to me a source of great joy......................"there's always a bigger fish", some force dude said that once in a movie.

For all I know the word Truth is the first name of a compulsive lying demon who is laughing his/her @ss off for trillions of years boasting to everyone he/she knows he/she made up the best cosmic prank ever, of course in the end Truth too will be crying since there's always a bigger fish and this sh!t just never ends.

Sorry about that, but I still have some questions, trillions.

[Tony]

The problem is running before you can walk.
It is the ego mind that is confused and will
find fault with anything. This is what ego mind does.

Pure perception is not the same as cluttered mind.

We are beings of luminosity - pure light wisdom.
In that there is no fear. Fear comes from the ego mind.

Pure being wants to return to pure light...bright light!
Ego mind wants dim dark corners to complain in.
That's how we are stuck here!

Darkness or Light is always our own choice.
Choose wisely.


Tony

[Roisin]

What ever you believe in, keep one thing in mind, if you die having an addiction, there's a very good chance that you will choose to remain earthbound just to get your fix.
You will become what the Dalai Lama calls a "hungry ghost".
Makes no difference if you're Hindi, Buddhist, Christian, Jewish or an atheist, you're still going to be stuck in that netherworld till you respond to the intervention that's offered to you to leave that place .... and your addictions too.

[Sunny-side-up]

If everything is a symbol then LIGHT rarely has any negative association to it. However, two negative aspect of light come to mind. BTW: These are often associated with the Illuminati.

1. When light shines into your eyes it can blind or inhibit your sight.

2. You can't see who is wielding the light.

Yes this is what I'm saying, in these times of deception and awakening we have choices!

Rabbits and deer caught in the tunnel of light (Head light beam) from a fast moving truck certainly move on! yes But if they where fully awake at the time they could have had a choice!

I'm sorry if I've upset anyone by adding a confusion/complication to the process of death but I have seen or been given the knowledge of a choice, just as here in the physical we have had such traumatic and grand scale awakenings, so it might be as we move on up and over, stay awake is all im saying.

Even at the point of passing over/moving on/death of the material self we might be facing corruption. Just don't dive in at the last moment and lose any possible evolution to the process that we as awake beings might add!

Athletes are trained to run past the finnish post not to it, run to it and you will be piped at the last moment :(

Someone added in a reply to this post that went something like this (Not a quote) they have died many times and while in a skidding spinning car they just gave into it! You even then have choices!. I have saved myself and friends many times in such circumstances, They looked at me and said WTF? the trick is never give into what you don't wan't to happen. I wasn't ready to get heart! I wasn't ready to die! So break down every second of any event and save the day by using the very last fraction of time (Awakeness) don't just throw it away :)
Unless you wan't to that is, then that is your choice to move on k!


pie'n'eal pie'n'eal

The problem is running before you can walk.
It is the ego mind that is confused and will
find fault with anything. This is what ego mind does.

Pure perception is not the same as cluttered mind.

We are beings of luminosity - pure light wisdom.
In that there is no fear. Fear comes from the ego mind.

Pure being wants to return to pure light...bright light!
Ego mind wants dim dark corners to complain in.
That's how we are stuck here!

Darkness or Light is always our own choice.
Choose wisely.


Tony

As always with every Avalon post/thread; so much great knowledge from so many awake beings.
Avalon is a Very Bright Tunnel/Beam of LIGHT!

[778 neighbour of some guy]

What ever you believe in, keep one thing in mind, if you die having an addiction, there's a very good chance that you will choose to remain earthbound just to get your fix.
You will become what the Dalai Lama calls a "hungry ghost".
Makes no difference if you're Hindi, Buddhist, Christian, Jewish or an atheist, you're still going to be stuck in that netherworld till you respond to the intervention that's offered to you to leave that place .... and your addictions too.

Ok, I'll bite, I have been addicted, have no issues what so ever with them anymore, responsible recreational use is not the same as dependency, the following example is as subjective as they could possibly come and I have NO way of backing this up besides telling you this, so anyone reading this can call this anecdotal, I really don't care, anyway, I lost more than one friend to drugs ( 9), for some reason we found each other in better times and for some reason we all ended up in this really weird place where everything just went south, I am the last man standing of this group ( very odd all by its self considering I have seen/done so much crap in my life its a miracle I am not dead, it has not been an easy ride at all since birth for me), well now, 17 years ago I checked myself into a clinic ( I already was clean, did that all by my lonesome, puking and ****ting blood, I'll spare you the other details) I checked myself in this high end clinic to do some digging and soul searching and needed some tools to do that, that's why I went, tools, that's it, no more no less, a good friend of mine checked himself into detox, same building but separated by a glass door, he was very happy to see me, but for my own safety and everyone else in the clinic it was best not to engage in contact with those, no matter how close if they had not made a decision YET to give it a real go ( detox doesn't mean all that much at all, it means stop using whatever it is you used and your detox will start all by its self, besides your presence nothing else is required for this process, detoxing you mind and thoughts is a whole other deal), anyway, I left the clinic happy and skippy and this friend got kicked out of detox, I got myself a nice place to start my life over and one day he passed my house ( walked by looking like a walking bloated corpse on medication), I didn't open the door, didn't call him, didn't need the drama at that time.

A week later I hear he hung himself from the stairs at his fathers house ( his dad found him there after a week, he was on a holiday) imagine that one eh:(. Ok..........now that made me feel GUILTY as hell, maybe I could have this or that to prevent it from happening, maybe I couldn't........ you see.... I tortured myself with that thought for a couple of years, crying, feeling like a total @sshole, and perhaps I am and perhaps I deserve to be judged accordingly whenever and if that time comes ( I doubt it), anyway.........I wanted a sign.. from Jacco ( the friend), begging, praying, scared ****less night after night after night and nothing happened, are you Ok man, please tell me, where the f@ck are you, and then it happened, a very very very intense dream ( or was it;)), I found myself in a very light place, peacefull, calm, serene and all the other sweet qualifications you can throw at that, I found myself in front of a house ( white), and for some reason I started banging on the door, or ringing the bell, whatever, I can remember, the door opened, a beautiful lady in white opened the door with a very much surprised face and asked me if she could help me, I looked passed her down the hallway and saw my friend there in the living room, feet on the table, newspaper, looking in excellent shape, better then he had ever been, he looked right baxk at me, his eyes almost popped out his now pretty face, and completely baffled he said, what are you doing here man, you are not supposed to be here, I started crying, woke up and had my complete confirmation he was OK and my guilt dropped of me like a lead weight.

So, that's good enough for me, everybody goes to a good place, no matter how bad they behaved, if an omnipotent being for some reason thought us up in all his ( presumable) wisdom, he would also have taken in serious consideration that we tiny people and little energy balls trapped in meatsuits are innocent when born, and after that just try to make the best of it with our half brains make mistakes, it would punish us for not knowing????????

No I don't care what lama, pope, priest, mullah, monkey elephant guy says anymore, I just don't, scaring people into submission no matter what denomination they are from is just WRONG, I have my own ODD experiences in life and experienced some pretty off the hook things, but again, anyone who wants me in the straight jacket of dogma isn't doing the right thing IMO.

And than the addiction part, no need to get the dictionary here, what is that? LOve addicts, workaholics, junkies, alcoholics, cookie lovers, passionate hobbyists, UFO enthousiasts, scientists, atheists, Buddhists, Catholics, Muslims all have their crutch, so are all those addicts damned then:confused: hovering around in the netherworlds? That a pretty sadistic unforgiving picture and I for one am not buying it, when we pass on, there better be a cookie on the other side as a reward, because if it is not, Source will run out of volunteers mighty fast and rob itself of the learning opportunity of an infinity ( lifetime), well unless we made that whole love thing up of course to make this sh!t somewhat bearable.

RpKvn26fhTg

[Joe Akulis]

It's true, one book says one thing, another book says something else.

Read them both, and any others that people on Avalon recommend to you. Then tell us wtf you learned.

[Krist]

Great stories Avalon!It seems all we can be sure of is in your face now.How can anyone know anything is true or false without a firsthand experience .Most of us have been misled from the moment we open our eyes here to the moment they close.So far,seems no one can actually prove right or wrong except for what you are willing to accept and judge in any given moment. I saw a white light recently on an emergency room table while a chest tube was installed to keep my lung from collapsing .When I came back to the table told the Doctors thank you I love you I saw the light, fluorescent lights on the ceiling.I had the "thousand mile stare" of special K,my eyes were open and couldn't focus.....It's just a story from my perspective.If I put it in a book with some gold trim could it become a story of enlightenment? Maybe if I....want to believe that.

[Bill Ryan]

Some alien researchers say that not only do ET's manipulate our physical bodies in this world, but they also deceive us after we've died.

Robert Morningsky warns us not to go into the white light we see when we die because it is a trap to further our enslavement and put us straight back into another body. He says to stop, look around, go out into space and find your own light.

The white light is used as a reprogramming centre to install amnesia and screw up our lives because we forget our past lives from this.


Yes. The above is absolutely my view also.

For what it's worth to some readers here (and this is a side comment only that may be of interest), scientologists refer to this as 'The Between-Lives Implant', and it can be processed and erased. It seems to be very real.

[Calz]

It seems all we can be sure of is in your face now.How can anyone know anything is true or false without a firsthand experience .




There's the rub ...

What ... exactly ... is to be gleaned from firsthand experience???

How ... exactly ... would you (or anyone) react to "the voice of god" beamed into your head???


More "real" than reading a book or listening to someone else's experience to be sure ... but ...


Beaming voices is relatively low tech it would seem (... and firsthand experience?).


Controlling someone's experience after death or during a NDE.


Wow ... :shocked:


Making a personal choice to channel is one thing ... you are "inviting".


This ... is not ... that.


:peep:

[Kalamos]

..........

[Calz]

Some alien researchers say that not only do ET's manipulate our physical bodies in this world, but they also deceive us after we've died.

Robert Morningsky warns us not to go into the white light we see when we die because it is a trap to further our enslavement and put us straight back into another body. He says to stop, look around, go out into space and find your own light.

The white light is used as a reprogramming centre to install amnesia and screw up our lives because we forget our past lives from this.


Yes. The above is absolutely my view also.

For what it's worth to some readers here (and this is a side comment only that may be of interest), scientologists refer to this as 'The Between-Lives Implant', and it can be processed and erased. It seems to be very real.


So very odd after many years of "new age" programming about "following the light".

I (for one) would be interested to hear more (if more appropriately placed in a scientology thread).


Could not find an image or vid ... but what came to mind was Indiana Jones throwing sand over an apparent chasm to see the walkway bridge in order to search for the holy grail ...


http://blu.stb.s-msn.com/i/13/952C49DE2ADDD8EDC917362809D96.jpg


Another side note ... I remember reading (*sigh*) somewhere about rather than following the light going to one of Robert Monroe's labels for where he (his organization) takes people during guided OOBE experiences.

Don't think it was from the Monroe group itself ... perhaps Val Valarian's Matrix material. Cannot remember for sure.

No *firsthand experience* to offer ... simply offering something that came to mind.

[skippy]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1AJIE7G1DnQ/TQgxhQT4udI/AAAAAAAAAWg/vX9zaZV2CFE/s640/Ascent+of+the+Blessed.jpg

Bosch Hieronymus, The Ascent to the Empyrean, from the Vision of the Afterlife, 1499-1502, Palazzo Ducale, Venice.

[Peace of Mind]

This is very hard to take serious because the dead tells no tales. I don’t see how a living being can claim to know what happens after death. We hardly know what’s happening to us as living beings and we’re faced with life on a daily bases. I’m not really concerned about anything in the afterlife until that time comes; living life to its fullest is my priority. It would be foolish of me to believe any living beings interpretation of death, especially when the source of info is basically based on opinions/ speculation.
I’ll rather not have someone else’s ideas (on something that can’t possibly be proven by the living) get the slightest chance to mode my mind set. Death is inevitable and personal; no one has the answers for knowing how you should journey, how that journey should end, and where you’ll be going from there. Its bad enough people are being mind controlled throughout their lives…don’t let someone control your thoughts for your afterlife too. Use your own mind to interpret your surroundings. If you don’t… you’ll remain dependent on others to think for you.

Peace

[Rocky_Shorz]

all of you have heard the saying Jesus is the light and the way...

He is standing at the doorway entering Heaven from Nirvana... Everyone in Nirvana, stayed to come back again... I won't give that credit to evil ETs

now for conspiracy theorist, that might mean to run the other direction, but after strolling around lost on earth waiting for someone to recognize you for a few years, what have you got to lose, if you are stuck here, you might as well be alive and making a difference...

of course, I've never seen a tunnel, so that might be the trap...

[Tony]

Clear light means clarity.





.

[Bill Ryan]

Clear light means clarity.


Not always. (Also ask any moth!)


http://www.personal.psu.edu/afr3/blogs/siowfa13/finding_nemo_dory_marlin_angler_fish.jpg

[Tony]

Clear light means clarity.


Not always. (Also ask any moth!)


http://www.personal.psu.edu/afr3/blogs/siowfa13/finding_nemo_dory_marlin_angler_fish.jpg



Hello Bill,
This may be true...if you are a moth.


Tony

[Wind]

Dr. Michael Newton's Journey of Souls (http://www.near-death.com/newton.html) should be a must read for everyone, it did change my views drastically when I was waking up years ago. In physical life we can be manipulated and controlled and our worst enemy is our own fear. In death there is nothing to be afraid in the spirit world. God is benevolent and we are being guided by higher beings of light. Any negative manipulation isn't allowed there, but unfortunately here on Earth it is human's free will has been affected by malevolent forces.


1. The Transition After Death

There are souls who have been so severely damaged they are detached from the mainstream of souls going back to a spiritual home base after death. Compared to all returning entities, the number of these abnormal souls is not large.

There are two types of displaced souls: those who do not accept the fact their physical body is dead and fight returning to the spirit world for reasons of personal anguish, and those souls who have been subverted by, or had complicity with, criminal abnormalities in a human body. The first type we call ghosts. These spirits refuse to go home after physical death and often have unpleasant influences on those of us who would like to finish out our human lives in peace. These displaced souls are sometimes falsely called demonic spirits because they are accused of invading the minds of people with harmful intent.

Those subverted by criminal abnormalities do undergo separation in the spirit world, and this happens at the time of their orientation with guides. They are not activated along the same travel routes as other souls and will go into seclusion upon reentering the spirit world. These souls don't appear to mix with other entities in the conventional manner for quite a while.

Because wrong-doing takes so many forms on Earth, spiritual instruction and the type of isolation used is varied for each soul. The nature of these variations apparently is evaluated during orientation at the end of each life. The relative time of seclusion and reindoctrination is not consistent either. For instance, I have had reports about maladjusted spirits who have returned back to Earth directly after a period of seclusion in order to expunge themselves as soon as possible by a good incarnated performance.

All souls, regardless of experience, eventually arrive at a central port in the spirit world which I call the staging area. Once past the orientation station there seems to be no further travel detours for anyone entering this space of the spirit world. Apparently, large numbers of returning souls are conveyed in a spiritual form of mass transit. Spirits are brought in, collected, and then projected out to their proper final destinations similar to a central terminal of a metropolitan airport that has the capacity to fly people out in any direction. The most outstanding characteristic of this world is a continuous feeling of a powerful mental force directing everything in uncanny harmony. People say this is a place of pure thought.

After souls arrive back into their soul groups, they are summoned to appear before a Council of Elders. While the Council is not prosecutorial, they do engage in direct examination of a soul's activities before returning them to their groups.

Group placement is determined by soul level. After physical death, a soul's journey back home ends with debarkation into the space reserved for their own colony, as long as they are not a very young soul or isolated for other reasons. The souls represented in these cluster groups are intimate old friends who have the same awareness level. Members of the same cluster group are closely united for all eternity. These tightly-knit clusters are often composed of like-minded souls with common objectives which they continually work out with each other. Usually they choose lives together as relatives and close friends during their incarnations on Earth.

[Rocky_Shorz]

I have noticed a few things I will share, one is, Spirits wandering the earth are grounded, my seer isn't bothered by spirits showing up at night when on the 2nd floor, so if you plan on visiting the other worlds after passing, it isn't possible...

The other is, Buddhist can travel between dimensions in a thought after death, where Christians get to heaven and don't bounce around but you can experience other worlds through the eyes of those who have been there.

back when my bro in law first passed on the operating table, I was dreaming and he was wandering in darkness, when I saw a door opening, I sent him back and his heart restarted... I put a bolder in the doorway and went inside to explore, it was the Kingdom of Islam... There was not only no 72 virgins, there was not one female trapped in the darkness... When we started the venture to the next dimension, Buddha along with hundreds of others joined to light the way to the door. They created the light we needed to see, the heavens have been merged...

the trap had to do with a special stone in Mecca...

[Agape]

...in ''follow the Light'' ...

The 'Light' as sensual perception , no matter the colour and intensity is but a metaphor and can be explained as physiological phenomenon :




It is termed the quantum physics ' collapse of the wave function (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_function_collapse) ' in the moment that the observer (consciousness ) transforms the probability wave in the particle.
Ie , sends the command to the electrons (waves ) , turn particles thus creating the reality to be experienced.
The ' collapse of the wave function ' is therefore one who creates the physical reality perceived .
It is important to emphasize that the ' collapse of the wave function ' only creates what is believed to be true .
Thus , the belief is of fundamental importance in the possible realities being lived .
This occurs both in the perception of life as after death ( death does not exist ) .
Because after we die we come to exist in a dimension often more subtle , less dense , the creation of reality by the observer ( consciousness) occurs much faster .
And this perceived reality is based on what is believed to be living .
So if what you believe does not contradict the ultimate reality , it is created to be experienced . For good or for evil .
Thus , the fear of things and situations that occur here on Earth , also occurred after ' death ' .
If you are in fear is because you believe , if you believe you create .

Hugs .


What you see or hear or not see or don't hear, largely depends on specific functions of your brain and it's state at time when your heart switches off .
It's vaguely similar to certain computer hardware functionality in ways because despite the overall circulatory collapse ,
neural pathways and brain centres can remain dormant for very long time , depending on how well preserved your body is , if it suffered major damage to its organs etc ..
and they may engage in subtle neural activity called thinking /dreaming , while isolated from most forms of external stimuli .

And then, every individual brain have unique ways of perception , longer it travels inwards , it creates 'art' , landscapes, spaces , music and all that is far beyond imagination of outward wired brain .

It finally gains the deep momentum when it grew up , matured and was freed of the sensory overload from 3D human world.

Well, at least that's how some of our friends 'scientists' prefer to see it ...

;)


The 'Light' itself and what is referred to as ''Light of Clear Meaning'' , in Bardo Thodol and other ancient texts ,
is a cognisant function rather than any particular sensory perception.

It's a 'light of discernment' , clarity of understanding . There are 2 varieties of that 'clear light' described as 'Son Light' and 'Mother Light' .

The 'Son Light' ( could be a 'daughter light' to remain impartial ) is the clearest state of mind you are able to generate as an individual entity ,
starting from where you are, no matter whether you consider yourself Being of Form or Formless Spirit, both or neither ,
the pinnacle of your clear understanding of who you are is called the 'Clear Light' of Primordial Meaning and the 'Son Light' in the specific case ,

if you happen to be a Christian it can be well understood as the 'Christ Light' for you are the Child who realised his full potential in that moment .


It's explained that this 'Son Light' needs to meet the 'Mother Light' , touch the reality of the other 'world' /side/ dimension to achieve completion and so it is.

Old Testament Jews held that 'no one can touch the throne of God and remain alive' as mortal being , at the same time,
so they basically, logically pre-stated that either you are here .. or you are 'there' and once you are fully 'there' you can not go back , in the same form and time at least .


I guess , and I'm sorry I skip lots of my thoughts and links between them while typing but people don't like reading long stories nowadays, anyway ..



:angel:

[Roisin]

As above, so below. We create our own reality. Whatever you BELIEVE wrt to what happens when we pass over.... it WILL happen or be there.

If you believe that white like is a trap but go into it anyway, it will still be a trap.
For others who believe that that white like leads us to paradise, that's where they will go when they enter it. :)

[Calz]

Clear light means clarity.


Not always. (Also ask any moth!)


http://www.personal.psu.edu/afr3/blogs/siowfa13/finding_nemo_dory_marlin_angler_fish.jpg


:pop2:


http://cdn.stripersonline.com/7/7d/330x182px-LL-7dc6c095_micheal-jackson-eating-popcorn-theater-gif.gif

(last time I tried this I got sucked into somewhere I had no expectation of going ... so much for lessons learned :haha: )

[Calz]

Dr. Michael Newton's Journey of Souls (http://www.near-death.com/newton.html) should be a must read for everyone, it did change my views drastically when I was waking up years ago. In physical life we can be manipulated and controlled and our worst enemy is our own fear. In death there is nothing to be afraid in the spirit world. God is benevolent and we are being guided by higher beings of light. Any negative manipulation isn't allowed there, but unfortunately here on Earth it is human's free will has been affected by malevolent forces.




Hey I have that ... I read/loved it ... and it is sitting atop my computer desk among 3 big stacks of books.

I was right on board with you when I read it ... dunno who or what to believe these daze (appears the illooneynaughties are winning with at least me)

[Vitalux]

Myself, I am a sucker for the white light, it is one of the few situations where I will jump in with both soul feet, because I am going home. :grouphug:

[Calz]

There has to be balance in the Universe ... else we would not be here???

(huh??? did I say that???)

[Tony]

Enlightenment is logical.
Recognise pure awareness
and lose the attitude.

The cause of suffering
is not recognising
pure awareness
and having a lot of attitude.

The word enLIGHTen is used for a reason.
It means to be crystal clear, to illuminate, uncontaminated, to be pure of heart.

[onawah]

Carlos Castaneda and Gurdjieff both spoke of what happens when human beings die, and how we can consciously shape our death experience.

Gurdjieff spoke of souls that had not yet evolved sufficiently becoming "food for the Moon" upon death.

From:http://gurdjiefflegacy.wordpress.com/article/gurdjieff-the-moon-organic-life-rwersjeofjp9-11/


Everything living on the Earth, people, animals, plants, is food for the moon…. All movements, actions, and manifestations of people, animals, and plants depend upon the moon and are controlled by the moon…. The mechanical part of our life depends upon the moon, is subject to the moon. If we develop in ourselves consciousness and will, and subject our mechanical life and all our mechanical manifestations to them, we shall escape from the power of the moon.

—G. I. Gurdjieff

In 1916, hoping to interest the Russian intelligentsia in his teaching, Mr. Gurdjieff asked his students to spread the ideas. It’s likely that the idea about man being not only a puppet of the moon but also its “food” was one they rarely, if ever, spoke about. It’s just too strange. Even today, some 90 years later, there is little discussion about the unique place given the moon in the teaching. If mentioned at all, it is taken either as a fable or as a metaphor for the creation of the moon in oneself. But Gurdjieff maintained that all of his ideas could be taken in seven different ways, one of which is factual.

Gurdjieff’s ideas of the moon’s control and use of the organic life of the Earth, and that but for the moon’s need there would be no organic life, or at the least a very different organic life on Earth, seem to be unique to The Fourth Way. Is this idea—that all organic life and man in particular are intimately involved in the mechanical process of reciprocal maintenance—unique to Gurdjieff’s teaching or have modern science, other ways, teachings and religions spoken of this?

Today’s scientific thought considers the moon to be essentially dead and acknowledges only the gravitational influence of the moon, primarily the tidal effect. This influence could be considered a “measurable” influence. There is anecdotal evidence of the moon’s more “subtle” influence on human behavior, generally considered to be a negative effect, on a woman’s menstrual cycle and on plant growth. Belief in the moon’s subtle influence on life is widely held among diverse cultures and often incorporated into their agrarian and cultural practices and beliefs. Science to date has been unable to prove that these subtle influences on life are real.



Water & Life

Though there is perhaps a connection between the scientifically acknowledged, measurable influence of the moon as the cause of tidal movements, human behavior and women’s menstrual cycles, these studies are quite far from showing causation. The commonality may be that the moon does affect the movement of fluids on Earth. The human body is between 50 and 60 percent water, with the brain containing approximately 75 percent water. Plant life can contain up to 90 percent water. The one element that science believes to be indispensable for life is water. Scientific thought sees that the Earth has an abundance of water, a complex atmosphere and therefore an abundance of life. Conversely, until recently science believed the moon has no water, no atmosphere, and no way of acquiring either and therefore is dead and will likely always be dead. The part of this scientific thinking that has recently changed involves the presence of water on the moon. The moon is now believed to have small quantities of water in the form of ice at the moon’s south and north poles. The source and extent of water on the moon is unknown.

So, is the moon dead or merely a very young planet (in planetary terms) beginning its process of growth? Gurdjieff stated quite clearly that the moon is a being, a younger version of the Earth, evolving and growing with the help of organic life on Earth. That organic life is influenced and manipulated to provide what the moon needs for its growth. This Trogoautoegocratic system is a part of the teaching’s cosmology, as graphically demonstrated in the Ray of Creation. As a part of Fourth Way cosmology, the moon is near the end of the descending creative octave. It is in the creation, or origin of the moon, that current science belatedly has come to a very similar, though not identical, view as to the mechanics that led to the creation of the moon.



Gurdjieff’s Anulios Discovered

In the First Series Gurdjieff writes that the moon was created accidentally by the collision of the Earth with the comet Kondoor. The largest fragment created by this collision was subsequently captured and became Earth’s moon. After many years of favoring other theories, today’s science, for the most part, has come to accept the hypothesis of a giant collision as the causal event which resulted in the creation of the moon. This theory postulates that during the Earth’s early life, some four billion years ago, a planetoid of approximately the size of Mars collided with a young planet Earth. The ensuing debris that was the result of the collision accreted and formed the moon. Satellite investigations and analysis of the rocks brought back to earth by the Apollo manned space missions have provided many details of the composition of the moon. With the use of this information and computer modeling, modern science has generally come to believe that the moon’s origin is best explained by the giant collision hypothesis.

Amazingly, Gurdjieff also held that at the time of this collision a smaller moon, which he calls Anulios, was created. Some 20 years after his death this was scientifically verified. The New York Times reported in July 1970:

It has recently been discovered that the Earth and the moon do not make up an isolated, self-sufficient two-body system, as men have believed for centuries. Rather, they are part of a three-body system whose third member is a tiny “quasi-moon” only a mile or two in diameter. Toro, as this third body has been named, wanders around the sun five times in the time that it takes Earth to make eight circuits. When Toro comes too near earth—9.3 million miles at the closest point—Earth’s gravity tends to change Toro’s curvilinear path so that on its next passage it is further away from Earth; in turn, Earth’s gravity affects this revised path so that on its following pass it is closer to Earth.

While current scientific thought has relegated the moon to a chunk of dead rock exerting only a measurable gravitational influence on the Earth, this view did not always dominate man’s beliefs. The science, religions and peoples of the ancient world had a quite different view of the moon.

Pliny the Elder, a first century Roman naturalist, illustrates the scientific beliefs of his time which still held the moon as an influential presence on the organic life of Earth. “We may certainly conjecture that the moon is not unjustly regarded as the star of our life. This it is that replenishes the earth; when she approaches it, she fills all the bodies, while when she recedes, she empties them. From this cause it is that shell-fish increase with the increase of the moon and that the bloodless creatures especially feel the breath at that time; even the blood of men grows and diminishes with the light of the moon, and leaves and herbage also feel the same influence, since the lunar energy penetrates all things.”

Pliny’s words and observations, specifics aside, are not incompatible with Fourth Way teachings in that they represent a sweeping and dynamic view of the moon’s influence on organic life.



A Life-Giving Moon?

In the past, the moon was often seen as a living, life-giving and life-effecting being as represented by a particular god or goddess. Worship of the moon or its representatives and the orientation of life by the lunar calendar was a main focus of religious life. Time was measured by the cycles of the moon and the moon was believed to have an effect on the most essential aspects of life. Within the beliefs of the past there is often found a close association of the moon with liquids of life: water, rain, the ocean, dew, sap, milk, blood, semen, menstrual fluids. The crescent moon often represented a container of a life-giving liquid and is seen throughout the ancient world as a crown adorning the heads of gods and goddesses. The old polytheistic religions of the world are replete with moon gods, goddesses and beings associated with the moon: Thoth, Ancient Egypt; Bridgit the Enchantress, Celtic Ireland; Diana, Ancient Rome; Artemis the Divine Archer, Ancient Greece; Shing-Moo, Ancient China; Cybele, The Lioness, Ancient Phrygia; Sinn, Ancient Babylonia; Helcate, the dark one, Ancient Greece; Lilith, Ancient Sumeria; Khons, the forgotten Egyptian, Ancient Egypt; Caridwen, Queen of the Cauldron; Danu, the Good Mother, Ireland; Isis, Mistress of Majic, Ancient Egypt, and many others.

Though many of man’s religions of the past promoted these beliefs, people through their own observations, experiences and instincts could often confirm the basis of religious teachings. In the arid climes where civilization first arose, the moon was generally the most important object and focus of religious ideas and observances. In juxtaposition to the sun, the other large dynamic celestial presence in their lives, the night and moon were welcomed. The desiccating sun, often seen as a destroyer of life, was gone, cooler temperatures enveloped the world, dew was formed and life became tolerable. The tangible relief that people felt in the setting of the sun and rising of the moon confirmed the soundness of many of their religious beliefs. Throughout the records that have come to us from the past there is extensive documentation of the widespread belief of life’s dependence on the moon. This view of dependence, to some degree, correlates with Fourth Way teachings. Gurdjieff says that it is the moon that exerts a mechanical control on all organic life on earth, though he also presents a less benign posture towards the moon: “The moon is man’s big enemy. We serve the moon.” While acknowledging the moon’s control, Fourth Way teaching brings a way to escape from this control, from mechanical life to “real life.”

Beginning with the late Bronze Age and early Iron Age (ca. 2000–1250 BCE) there began to be a lessening of the belief in the moon as the regulator and provider of life. Consequently, worship of the moon by the Earth’s peoples diminished. Concurrent with the moon’s decent there was an ascendancy of the sun in many of the religious beliefs of the world; the sun began to usurp many of the moon’s powers. This process of “solarization” was gradual and by no means universally accepted and was often met with resistance. Sun worship is essentially a learned belief. As science grew, belief in the sun’s dominance grew. Worship of the moon had begun and then grew instinctively; worship of the sun grew as the minds of men were taken with calculations and rationality. The science behind sun worship was undertaken by priests, not the people. Sun worship was facilitated by continually placing the sun’s location further and further from the Earth. Despite resistance by people clinging to the more instinctive beliefs of the past, solarization continued unabated. The solarization process has of late culminated in man’s current scientific view of the moon. This view, conveniently, is not at a cross purpose to the prevailing Western religious doctrines or conventional societal thought. By their actions and beliefs, even outside of the current mainstream religious teachings, it appears that most modern Western people have, in effect, become worshipers of the sun. In the Western world, the moon, with its importance in the minds of men greatly diminished by science and religion, has been left to the realm of poets, pagans and peasants.



Food for the Moon

Within the polytheistic world there is a partial correlation with The Fourth Way’s teaching regarding man as a food for the moon. In the mythology and the teachings of several of these polytheistic religions is found the belief in the moon as the repository of the finer bodies of man. In Etruscan mythology, the moon or “Luna” is the underworld, where souls go to rest and the production of new souls begins. In Greek mythology, upon death the soul and psyche first go to the moon and then go to the underworld where there is a second death and a separation. The soul then goes to the moon and the psyche to the sun. The Bhagavad-Gita describes two paths souls travel after physical death; one is the path of the sun, also known as the bright path, and the other is the path of the moon, known as the dark path. Gurdjieff states that man is a food for the moon and these myths and beliefs to a degree correlate with his statement. Gurdjieff also states that, “We are like the moon’s sheep, which it cleans, feeds and sheers, and keeps for its own purposes.” Though pantheistic religions and mythology put man under the sway of the gods they do not equate man to the status of domesticated sheep. This degree of mechanical control by the moon over organic life on Earth and man in particular is probably unique to Fourth Way teaching. Gurdjieff’s statement also implies that the moon is somehow feeding man. There is indeed some basis in Hindu beliefs that man does, at least indirectly, receive something from the moon in the form of soma. Soma in Hindu mythology is an elixir of immortality that only the gods can drink; the moon is said to be the storehouse or cup of soma. Though soma is believed by some to be a plant-derived intoxicant or hallucinogen, this may be a distraction from its real meaning. A verse from the Bhagavad-Gita speaks to this: “Permeating throughout the planetary system I maintain all moving and stationary beings by my potency and having become the essence of the moon, I nourish all plant life.”

Certain yogis believe that soma is a life-giving fluid created from the finer bodies of man that is to be showered by the moon with her light that descends on vegetables to form vitamins; it is also present in the cerebrum and has an essential role in the reproductive process. “The astral body rises up to the moon, the sun or other heavenly stars…. All our noble and virtuous deeds, our prayers and oblations offered with faith project that astral fluid from our bodies to the higher regions. The moon being the nearest heavenly body and a satellite of the earth attracts the astral fluid thus projected up and converts it into soma which in turn falls on the electric atmosphere of the earth and showers with rains, it descends with rainwater and takes the form of sap in vegetables, and lastly takes the form of semen when vegetables are consumed as food.”

Thus apparently it is within the Hindu yogic tradition that the closest approximation of Fourth Way teaching is found regarding the mechanical relationship of reciprocal maintenance of organic life on Earth with the moon. Even here, though there is a correspondence, there is not a clear view of the extent of organic life’s interdependence with the moon. A search through the beliefs of religions and mythology of the Earth’s peoples in seeking direct correspondence with this part of Fourth Way teaching is striking in the lack of even a close correlation. That the external teachings and beliefs of the three main monotheistic religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, have little in them that remotely resembles Fourth Way teaching is perhaps to be expected. The external trappings of all three of these great monotheistic religions were developed in a world saturated with pagan religions and were established in opposition to pagan beliefs. It is only within the polytheistic religions of the world that hints and similarities exist. The blunt clarity of Gurdjieff’s words is not to be demonstrably found within other teachings.

The lack of direct correlation in and of itself brings forth a question. What explains the uniqueness of this part of the teaching and why isn’t there a more direct correlation? Perhaps Gurdjieff answers this himself in the First Series “It might happen that having understood the reason for their arising, namely, that by their existence they should maintain the detached fragments of their planet, and being convinced of this their slavery to circumstances utterly foreign to them, they would be unwilling to continue their existence and would on principle destroy themselves.”


Carlos Castaneda, in 'The Eagle's Gift' describes a powerful force which sorcerers call the Eagle, which devours living souls when they die, and which the spiritual warrior, through certain conscious practices, seeks to avoid.
From:
http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan6.html


The power that governs the destiny of all living beings is called the Eagle or the Indescribable Force . Providing the luminous shell that comprises one's humanness has been broken, it is possible to find in the Indescribable Force the faint reflection of man. The Indescribable Force 's irrevocable dictums can then be apprehended by seers, properly interpreted by them, and accumulated in the form of a governing body. Thus the rule was formed.
The rule is not a tale. The rule states that every living thing has been granted the power, if it so desires, to seek an opening to freedom and to go through it.
To cross over to freedom does not mean eternal life as eternity is commonly understood--that is, as living forever. What the rule states is that one can keep the awareness which is ordinarily relinquished at the moment of dying. I cannot explain what it means to keep that awareness. My benefactor told me that at the moment of crossing, one enters into the third attention, and the body in its entirety is kindled with knowledge. Every cell at once becomes aware of itself, and also aware of the totality of the body.
This kind of awareness is meaningless to our compartmentalized minds. Therefore the crux of the warrior's struggle is not so much to realize that the crossing over stated in the rule means crossing to the third attention, but rather to conceive that there exists such an awareness at all.
There is a common error, that of overestimating the left-side awareness, of becoming dazzled by its clarity and power. To be in the left-side awareness does not mean that one is immediately liberated from one's folly--it only means an extended capacity for perceiving, and above all, a greater ability to forget.

[Wind]

Hey I have that ... I read/loved it ... and it is sitting atop my computer desk among 3 big stacks of books.

I was right on board with you when I read it ... dunno who or what to believe these daze (appears the illooneynaughties are winning with at least me)

Search your feelings, padawan. We all have the answers inside ourselves... Personally I believe that everything is ultimate guided by goodness and love. Darkness is just a part of this creation. Do you think that darkness is more powerful than the Creator who is responsible for the darkness and everything that exists? I know that when my moment comes I want to go in acceptance and peace. I might fear many things in this life, but I have already died so I'm not afraid of death.

[Carmody]

F'ing great thread. Hope it stays alive with more insight.

For me right now, after reading this thread, and if I died today, I would go with my gut about the light, as have all those nde'rs who went there, and came back changed for the better (fearless to degree about death and life). I've read many 'experiences' of near death.

If I got no gut feeling, upon death, I will avoid the light if I can, or speak out to it,"who or what are you?" If it doesn't respond, I'll turn and see what and where I can do and go. I'll call the light God, say goodbye with a wink.

When I get bored of the other worlds, I'll say, "hey God? What of this light?" May I see it again?

If it shines, and I feel something great, I'll go to it.

This, if I die today.

Your problem will be that the 'light' is highly compulsive.

At the same time, you will be something akin to animated thought, more than you are right now. so that thinking becomes being and doing. You will have a strong physical body implant or memory residual and you could possibly be hacked into via this residual body image, via it's biological imprint autonomous functions.

So, it's not just a light..... but as you turn to investigate, the compulsion increases and as you move into more of 'knowing' it, the compulsion increases..and it happens so fast..that...well.....

(as soon as you observe 'the light', the process begins)

[Calz]

Hey I have that ... I read/loved it ... and it is sitting atop my computer desk among 3 big stacks of books.

I was right on board with you when I read it ... dunno who or what to believe these daze (appears the illooneynaughties are winning with at least me)

Search your feelings, padawan. We all have the answers inside ourselves... Personally I believe that everything is ultimate guided by goodness and love. Darkness is just a part of this creation. Do you think that darkness is more powerful than the Creator who is responsible for the darkness and everything that exists? I know that when my moment comes I want to go in acceptance and peace. I might fear many things in this life, but I have already died so I'm not afraid of death.

There is balance.

I used to feel much the same.

Seems we chose the wrong side of the block this time ...

Myself ... think I will do a little cruisin' around before I make any roadside decisions after death ...

[Carmody]

Hey I have that ... I read/loved it ... and it is sitting atop my computer desk among 3 big stacks of books.

I was right on board with you when I read it ... dunno who or what to believe these daze (appears the illooneynaughties are winning with at least me)

Search your feelings, padawan. We all have the answers inside ourselves... Personally I believe that everything is ultimate guided by goodness and love. Darkness is just a part of this creation. Do you think that darkness is more powerful than the Creator who is responsible for the darkness and everything that exists? I know that when my moment comes I want to go in acceptance and peace. I might fear many things in this life, but I have already died so I'm not afraid of death.

There is balance.

I used to feel much the same.

Seems we chose the wrong side of the block this time ...

Myself ... think I will do a little cruisin' around before I make any roadside decisions after death ...

Remember to carry that thought with you, when you die, if that is the case.

Your 'problem' will be that your awareness and connectivity will change dramatically in those moments. Memory and rumination will take totally different forms, at least as far as your mind perceives them now. Clarity will increase dramatically and the now moment will be all pervasive and all connected.

Basically something more in the direction of the incoherence (to an ordered and filtered linear biologically connected mind) that Jill Bolte Taylor described in her stroke report about not having the ability to disassociate - something like that, ordered and expanded dramatically.

[onawah]

More from Castaneda:
From:http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan6.html

Warriors have no life of their own. From the moment they understand the nature of awareness, they cease to be persons and the human condition is no longer part of their view. You have your duty as a warrior and nothing else is important. So do your best.
The challenge of a warrior is to arrive at a very subtle balance of positive and negative forces. This challenge does not mean that a warrior should strive to have everything under control, but that a warrior should strive to meet any conceivable situation, the expected and the unexpected, with equal efficiency. To be perfect under perfect circumstances is to be a paper warrior.
I will give you a formula, an incantation for times when your task is greater than your strength;

I am already given to the power that rules my fate.
And I cling to nothing, so I will have nothing to defend.
I have no thoughts, so I will see.
I fear nothing, so I will remember myself.
Detached and at ease,
I will dart past the Eagle to be free.

It takes an enormity of strength to let go of the intent of everyday life. One must place one's attention on the luminous shell. A warrior must evoke intent . The glance is the secret. The eyes beckon intent .
The reason why seeing seems to be visual is because we need the eyes to focus on intent . Our eyes can catch another aspect of intent and that's called seeing . The true function of the eyes is to be the catchers of intent .
* * *
You should trust yourself. On the left side there are no tears. A warrior can no longer weep. The only expression of anguish is a shiver that comes from the very depths of the universe. It is as if one of the Indescribable Force 's emanations is anguish. The warrior's shiver is infinite.
* * *
The act of remembering the other self is thoroughly incomprehensible. In actuality it is the act of remembering oneself, which does not stop at recollecting the interaction warriors perform in their left side awareness, but goes on to recollect every memory that the luminous body has stored from the moment of birth.
This act of remembering, although it seems to be only associated with warriors, is something that is within the realm of every human being; every one of us can go directly to the memories of our luminosity with unfathomable results.

[Calz]

Basically something more in the direction of the incoherence (to an ordered and filtered linear biologically connected mind) that Jill Bolte Taylor described in her stroke report about not having the ability to disassociate - something like that, ordered and expanded dramatically.




Amazing vid ... highly recommended to anyone who has not already seen it.

[Calz]

More from Castaneda:





Sorry to add to any confusion.

I loved Castaneda for much of my life.

One of my dear friends and most "advanced" I have come into contact with suggest (to their own great surprise) was that it was all a fraud.

I dunno???

Another book (series) ... another personal take on things.

Another well respected and beloved hero of the "new age".

Again ... :noidea: ... just passing along something of a "personal experience ... at least 2nd hand".

[Bongo]

As above, so below. We create our own reality. Whatever you BELIEVE wrt to what happens when we pass over.... it WILL happen or be there.

If you believe that white like is a trap but go into it anyway, it will still be a trap.
For others who believe that that white like leads us to paradise, that's where they will go when they enter it. :)

People tend to forget that when we agree to enter this universe we are bound by the rules of it. The rule of agreement comes in to play. One of the workarounds is getting someone to agree to be controlled then the controllers are not breaking any of the rules of the universe or they would create karma for themselves. When the agreement is made the controllers can set up the light after death so that it reels you in like a fish to be processed for further use after this life is done. If you agreed even under duress it is still an active agreement, so belief its self will not create which ever outcome you believe because the controllers have already created it before you came to this life so that happens to you once you die. Not everyone has agreed to be controlled by these controllers but lots have. This is why aliens abduct indigo children, they are uncontrolled and free so they convince them that they (The aliens) are not a threat, ask them to perform tasks and help the child till trust is built up then after that they steer them (by the indigos own agreement) away from their objective of waking up the human race. That then traps them in this game we are in, under their control. This may paint a negative picture but awareness is key, you didn't come here just to experience the good you came here to experience both good and bad with no judgement attached to each so that balance can be maintained and much will be learnt. In the end you will get out of the trap one way or another, hopefully sooner rather than later.

[sheme]

The light will be what ever you allow it to be.

[Calz]

The light will be what ever you allow it to be.

Cool.

So if I personally allow the light to vanquish the darkness universally wide ... it will be so???

Ah ... what was I thinking???


Hey everyone ... Miller time ...


rCZ3SN65kIs

[Vitalux]

Cool.

So if I personally allow the light to vanquish the darkness universally wide ... it will be so???

Ah ... what was I thinking???


Hey everyone ... Miller time ...


I have to wonder.....if there we days like that....with all those men in battle, where did they all go the washroom?
and
Who made all them lunch?

*smiles*

Movies have come a long way since the 1950's

[onawah]

I was aware of that rumor, but I didn't buy it because the teachings themselves were so profound and real.
Eventually, whether Don Juan Matus existed or not became a moot point for me precisely because of that.
But later, a good friend told me about a friend of his who attended some workshops presented by members of Castaneda's band of warriors.
He had experiences that assured him that the teachings and the lineage are quite genuine, and that Don Juan does indeed exist.
I have personally had experiences that confirmed information I found in the teachings,
For me, a good way to confirm the validity of a teaching is to see if there are teachings from different sources that reflect the same truth in a different guise.
The wording may be different, but basically the reality of what is being described is the same, if we have the wit to recognize it.




More from Castaneda:





Sorry to add to any confusion.

I loved Castaneda for much of my life.

One of my dear friends and most "advanced" I have come into contact with suggest (to their own great surprise) was that it was all a fraud.

I dunno???

Another book (series) ... another personal take on things.

Another well respected and beloved hero of the "new age".

Again ... :noidea: ... just passing along something of a "personal experience ... at least 2nd hand".

[johnf]

This really is a great thread.
I have had a few obe/nde experiences.
I did not encounter any beings, remembering of my life experience,
or any past lives.
I experienced a light, but it did not feel blinding at all.
It was golden colored, not white.
This vast energy was the only thing I knew about, or "remembered".
I experienced a vast infinite space with a tendency to focus inward within that space, and perceive a very
subtle sense of a self there, there was a very large sense of being that tended to turn into beings, then relaxed.
There is a tendency where contemplating this basic energy to see a lot of power in it.
I think that there are lots of types of beings that like to try to own it and control it.
This white light that so many get excited or fearful about seems to be something that is focused on giving certain forms to the more expansive energy of being.

The tendency to think less of ourselves in the face of this awesome infinite sea of being can lead to any number of rash decisions and compulsions, our time here is an opportunity to experience the consequences of those things.
Any fear about this compulsion is just more distraction, and like all the others it comes from within me.

For me the most interesting comment in here is this one by Agape.





White light or not .., follow the Elders advice and don't get trapped . Human dimension is but one of many surrounding us , and further you get they are going to be more complicated , not less .

There's a truth in that statement ..for people who expect to move to world with less complications after they quit here , everyone has to pass through these vast dimensions of consciousness, light, and love , formless worlds , almost everyone that is, yes it's a trap .
Even the oldest teachings say formless dimensions are trap . Even if you are there for infinity of your perceptional existence , you will feel called back by your 'purpose' .

I suppose the more peace and ease I can achieve around ideas of am I good enough, or am I doing enough
will allow me to take on more complicated tasks, and that problem will become less of a distraction.
A being of absolute simplicity inside can deal with anything on the outside is the thought that I am left with now.


jf

[Carmody]

The light will be what ever you allow it to be.

Cool.

So if I personally allow the light to vanquish the darkness universally wide ... it will be so???

Ah ... what was I thinking???


Hey everyone ... Miller time ...


rCZ3SN65kIs

you are a being that is shaped by the will of self organization, scope of awareness, and projection of energies. Like the fish, you require a form of self organization..and flow. You are actively formed and alive. To cease..is to not be.

'The shark must move forward', and so must you.

What level of consciousness of environment and self is attached to such things, is up to you.

[sdv]

Caiz-- I think it's because no one knows what happens after death, except the obvious, that is we cease to be- we are no longer a functioning being because our brain has stopped working, forever and completely. Perhaps we can derive some comfort in the thought that we live in the memories of others who knew us, either personally or in our deeds. Personally I find that the notion that I have one go at life of any sort makes me treasure the life i have, and helps me to appreciate the fact that I am alive. I also personally find that I am happy to contemplate the notion that one day what is left of me will return to the stardust of which everything is made, but maybe that is a romantic fiction too.

No one knows about life after death, but neither do we know about life before birth. You could wonder where was the essential 'you' before birth? But sometimes the truth is simple. i think we are born- we live- we die!

As for the 'white light'. I think it has been recognised to be a symptom of the failing brain closing down, though not all people who have NDE actually see it.

NDE research tends to focus on those experiences that support a belief, so if 52% of people who experience clinical death do not have an NDE, this is ignored and the 48% are used as evidence that there is life (consciousness and the ability to have experiences) after death, and so on.

I have been gathering material for research on stories about life after death as channeled by those in the spirit world (the more I read, the more complicated the subject becomes!). Putting aside, but not ignoring, skeptical questions about whether these stories come from spirit or from the person who is channeling, I am finding a lot of interesting information to digest and summarise. Notably, these stories do not report any experience of a tunnel or a bright white light. This might be an indication that these stories come from the channeler as the texts I have found are all pre 1950 when NDEs were very rare as resuscitation from clinical death was not as common as it is today. Thus, if the tunnel and white light are phenomena of the dying brain, then this would not have been known then. However, if the experiences in NDES are a phenomena of the dying brain, then why do all people who experience clinical death not experience this and why do not all people who experience NDES experience the phenomena of a tunnel and a white light? The hypothesis that the white light is interference from aliens may explain the flaws in the other hypotheses (that this is a phenomena of the dying brain and that this is the portal to the spiritual world, as most of the evidence, as in reported experiences, do not support these hypotheses).

As you can see, this research is a fascinating enquiry! I started in the hopes of writing a book, but the more I read, the more questions I have and the more links I find that require more research.

Basically, my emerging belief is that if we do not continue to live after physical death (live as in have consciousness and the ability to experience) then we won't know and thus no suffering or unhappiness can come from ceasing to live (if there is no life, then there is no suffering). However, if we do continue to live after physical death, then stories that come from channelers, NDES, religious texts, and so on indicate that we should prepare ourselves otherwise there will be suffering, which lasts a very long time. There seems to be no harm, to me, to prepare yourself by how you live before physical death (and the rules for this basically are rules that create the conditions to alleviate or avoid suffering for self and others).

[Kalamos]

..........

[Roisin]

As above, so below. We create our own reality. Whatever you BELIEVE wrt to what happens when we pass over.... it WILL happen or be there.

If you believe that white light is a trap but go into it anyway, it will still be a trap.
For others who believe that that white light leads us to paradise, that's where they will go when they enter it. :)

I like to believe this. And so I choose to believe it for now.

If there is an astral plane, the place of dreams and nightmares, than it may shape according to our emotions. I've always read that this is the case, when we die, we first go there till we burn our fears and desires of the life. Then we move on to the light, perhaps the mental plane. Less dynamic, more real. Not the highest we can go (to be liberated ... That may be the Casual plane of theosophists)

I meant "white light" .... not "white like". Lol, I have a nagging tooth ache hence why I'm making grammatical errors today.

[Kalamos]

..........

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Clear light means clarity.







.
Don't stand on the railroad tracks, that's not clarity coming your way.

[Shezbeth]

I experienced a light, but it did not feel blinding at all.
It was golden colored, not white. This vast energy was the only thing I knew about, or "remembered".

Thank you John, I have had a similar experience with a singular golden light. I've never described it because I wanted to first hear it exist for someone else, that it might be co-analyzed.

I wasn't seeing it at all, not in respect to eyes or sensory organs - they were pointed toward a movie according to observers of my body at the time and not of any memory - it simply was. I had no difficulty observing it (it wasn't obscured or blinding or anything) and it essentially filled my awareness. More accurately there was nothing otherwise of which I could be aware at that dimension/level of perception; There was no turning away. Despite this, I was aware of it, signifying an objective/subjective relationship; I have come to consider that singular golden light as being the singularity of which we are all manifestations of, but that last is only my opinion. I recognize the contradiction of being subjectively aware of a singularity.

I am entirely without experience of a white tunnel, light, or whatever. I would confront such with my intent.

[Davidallany]

Robert Morningsky warns us not to go into the white light we see when we die because it is a trap to further our enslavement and put us straight back into another body. He says to stop, look around, go out into space and find your own light.This sounds very difficult to do. Searching space for one's own light, where to start and how to deal with the unknown, such as tricky beings and bullies?

[Wookie]

http://www.justsaypictures.com/images/its-a-trap-01.jpg

I don't "know" there is a light after I die, haven't tried death yet. Once dead however, I imagine that time wouldn't be an issue so whats the harm in having a little poke around. If I can be still and just take it all in for a while. Maybe read the instruction manual, maybe not, I do like to wing it. I have heard death described as the last great adventure, what great adventure doesn't have its fair share of darkness. Maybe, just maybe, duality will not be such a hang up on the other side. To be fair I have no idea :)

Peaceful Journeys Wookie

[Sirius White]

Yes.

It is part of the "Wheel" in eastern terms.

The karmic cycle.

Or the "prison" as gnostics would say.

No different than an anesthetic really. But you don't really have much of a choice if you haven't evolved your lightbody to a degree where it can break free. This what it means to be an "immortal" in the daoist sense.

[Rocky_Shorz]

I mentioned the stone earlier as a trap...

http://mysteryoftheinquity.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/black-stone-sacred-yoni-at-mecca1.jpg


The literal truth is not important; rather the symbolism of such stones being a link between this world and the heavens is an integral aspect of the Cosmic Axis which is invoked by all sacred centers. link (http://mysteryoftheiniquity.com/2011/04/04/the-black-stone-at-mecca/)

as I see it, these billions of souls were being captured, not to be reborn, but to be released for the final battle between good and evil...

I pissed off the dark magician Abbadon when I set them all free...


not on my watch... ;)

[Christine]

Hey Rocky - I don't know what we have been doing lately but it sure feels magical. I worked on the Mecca stone a month or so ago. (I have all the data recorded.) All I can say is that my perceptions matched yours. I work with a few others and as we worked to release the entity that was embedded in the stone we were aware of the millions if not billions of others that can go free now.

Lots of them need rehabilitation but that too is present in the ethereal. More later.....

To add, the axis or vortexes of power on the planet have to a great extent been taken over... anything that traps a being's free will, energy, devotion is in violation of cosmic law.


I mentioned the stone earlier as a trap...


The literal truth is not important; rather the symbolism of such stones being a link between this world and the heavens is an integral aspect of the Cosmic Axis which is invoked by all sacred centers. link (http://mysteryoftheiniquity.com/2011/04/04/the-black-stone-at-mecca/)

as I see it, these billions of souls were being captured, not to be reborn, but to be released for the final battle between good and evil...

I pissed off the dark magician Abbadon when I set them all free...


not on my watch... ;)

[Rocky_Shorz]

the stone at the beginning was a female symbol which is easy to recognize but the men took it away from them along with the religion...

that is when it became a trap, the females went to heaven, the men were locked in the Hall of Kings in complete darkness...

it is a pilgrimage required for everyone in Islam who could afford it so no one escaped...

none of their natural leaders were ever being reborn to lead again...


after posting that, I went over to Camelot, and noticed the whistle blower had quite a lot to say about Islam being victims... I guess that's why another messenger was sent to help them get on the path meant to be...

the Bible was written with a message in the end written for The Church of Saudis to let them know the Big guy didn't want them to continue on that path...

did you get a look at the entity involved?

Abaddon/RA was trapped in the darkness after the gateway was destroyed, maybe he had somehow found his way into the stone...

thanks for the heads up, I need to make sure he isn't building up his powers again...

watch for pockets of hatred rising up in the world...

seems like the opposite though with both Syria and Iran moving towards peace with the world...

maybe even the dark magician deserved another chance...

of course after our battle when I reached down to help him up, he stabbed me with a knife, Mohammad had to call for Jesus to heal me before I passed after that deception...

[Calz]

Hey Rocky - I don't know what we have been doing lately but it sure feels magical. I worked on the Mecca stone a month or so ago. (I have all the data recorded.) All I can say is that my perceptions matched yours. I work with a few others and as we worked to release the entity that was embedded in the stone we were aware of the millions if not billions of others that can go free now.

Lots of them need rehabilitation but that too is present in the ethereal. More later.....

To add, the axis or vortexes of power on the planet have to a great extent been taken over... anything that traps a being's free will, energy, devotion is in violation of cosmic law.


I mentioned the stone earlier as a trap...


The literal truth is not important; rather the symbolism of such stones being a link between this world and the heavens is an integral aspect of the Cosmic Axis which is invoked by all sacred centers. link (http://mysteryoftheiniquity.com/2011/04/04/the-black-stone-at-mecca/)

as I see it, these billions of souls were being captured, not to be reborn, but to be released for the final battle between good and evil...

I pissed off the dark magician Abbadon when I set them all free...


not on my watch... ;)


Wow .... heady stuff there.

In light of this (pun shamelessly intended yet a serious inquiry ...) to tie this information back to topic ... how might this impact that OMG I am dead ... what to do moment???

Or is this still a process and the jury is still out (probably a duh question ... but I'll take the plunge)

(see I told you the Universe keeps doing this to me ... *sigh*)

[Christine]

Hi Calz,

Yes, heady stuff... but more importantly it is heart stuff. What I see from my perceptions is the following. The liberation of trapped, implanted, fooled, abused, fill in the blank, souls is only accomplished when they come to consciousness of release and accept the reinstatement of their Free Will. (Some will argue that we always have it, and to a certain extent true, however other aspects of our soul make-up have left us susceptible to false data and we do become trapped in repetitious cycles). So freeing is never about controlling them further. The release moment is felt and the accompanying sense is clarity, yes a lightening of mass.

So how does this impact our leaving the body moment? Ah, that is the topic of this thread and I actually intended to write something about that too. :)

I am of the opinion that by sharing our experiences we find our answers. There doesn't appear to be any single answer for everyone and most certainly the state of your consciousness will determine what the afterlife will be, or at least that is what I think now.

Another very profound moment came for me the other morning in my mediation. I clearly (my mind and heart) saw and was told that the implanters (yes, I have had contact with many of them) that have been stationed around the planet have been disempowered for the most part. How? There are now more angel warriors and BEings of light that have literally surrounded them. What this means is that when a soul leaves the body it will be met with a guide... sort of like the Buddhist ceremonies that accompany the departed.

I have been trying to imagine this state, for the most part death knocks on our door and we aren't prepared, so Wow! how valuable a thread like this to get us conscious.

What I am personally aware of are cocoons, a place where the spiritual being can make a cocoon and rest if desired. When our consciousness opens up enough we may know where we want to go or experience next, we should be able to instantaneously be where ever we desire.

So again we come to the KNOWing of one SELF.. .. the never losing that SELF in the sea of forgetfulness again. If we leave body and stay intact we will KNOW where to go. If we leave body confused or attached to unfinished business I guess we will choose to come back here. If we postulate to not become trapped and hold this as a reality we should, by the re-instated cosmic law, be free.

Just some musings.. not sure yet but I have definitely put this into my mind to consider.

I found this image and I liked it... the swirl of angelic beings and the two standing in consideration. Pause and choice.

http://cdnimg.visualizeus.com/thumbs/2b/0d/celestial,dore,mandala,god,light,dante-2b0d2bbfc4b37a6a012a3dce64e637bb_h.jpg



Hey Rocky - I don't know what we have been doing lately but it sure feels magical. I worked on the Mecca stone a month or so ago. (I have all the data recorded.) All I can say is that my perceptions matched yours. I work with a few others and as we worked to release the entity that was embedded in the stone we were aware of the millions if not billions of others that can go free now.

Lots of them need rehabilitation but that too is present in the ethereal. More later.....

To add, the axis or vortexes of power on the planet have to a great extent been taken over... anything that traps a being's free will, energy, devotion is in violation of cosmic law.


I mentioned the stone earlier as a trap...


The literal truth is not important; rather the symbolism of such stones being a link between this world and the heavens is an integral aspect of the Cosmic Axis which is invoked by all sacred centers. link (http://mysteryoftheiniquity.com/2011/04/04/the-black-stone-at-mecca/)

as I see it, these billions of souls were being captured, not to be reborn, but to be released for the final battle between good and evil...

I pissed off the dark magician Abbadon when I set them all free...


not on my watch... ;)


Wow .... heady stuff there.

In light of this (pun shamelessly intended yet a serious inquiry ...) to tie this information back to topic ... how might this impact that OMG I am dead ... what to do moment???

Or is this still a process and the jury is still out (probably a duh question ... but I'll take the plunge)

(see I told you the Universe keeps doing this to me ... *sigh*)

[Hervé]

...

To add, the axis or vortexes of power on the planet have to a great extent been taken over... anything that traps a being's free will, energy, devotion is in violation of cosmic law.

...Some called them "Wells of Souls":

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit&p=479664&viewfull=1#post479664


With respect to these sacrificial rituals and what is achieved through them, here is a little known usage in order to control Earth's energy grid:


Then in December, in Dooney's chat, we were systematically boosting all the occult banking families. We were working up the Rothschilds, and a power base they have in Paris. I think on Nancy's intuitive prompting, we all soon realized the Rothschilds were using the Obelisks in Paris to transmit and collect energy. Then we started realizing the obelisks were over corrupted earth vortices, with trapped guardians. We spent some time addressing the grief energy over Diana's murder that was being collected and used against humanity. We were finding wells of souls under them also. A well of souls is a deep pit of trapped, grief shattered souls whose energy is being controlled and used like a generator by the sickos of the world. We had a rollicking time.


http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p174/fhb_photos/oslo_sa_740x334.jpg

Vigeland Park in Oslo


From: http://www.ethericwarriors.com/ip/viewtopic.php?download=4153&t=1596

[Rocky_Shorz]

Hey Rocky - I don't know what we have been doing lately but it sure feels magical. I worked on the Mecca stone a month or so ago. (I have all the data recorded.) All I can say is that my perceptions matched yours. I work with a few others and as we worked to release the entity that was embedded in the stone we were aware of the millions if not billions of others that can go free now.

Lots of them need rehabilitation but that too is present in the ethereal. More later.....

To add, the axis or vortexes of power on the planet have to a great extent been taken over... anything that traps a being's free will, energy, devotion is in violation of cosmic law.


I mentioned the stone earlier as a trap...


The literal truth is not important; rather the symbolism of such stones being a link between this world and the heavens is an integral aspect of the Cosmic Axis which is invoked by all sacred centers. link (http://mysteryoftheiniquity.com/2011/04/04/the-black-stone-at-mecca/)

as I see it, these billions of souls were being captured, not to be reborn, but to be released for the final battle between good and evil...

I pissed off the dark magician Abbadon when I set them all free...


not on my watch... ;)


Wow .... heady stuff there.

In light of this (pun shamelessly intended yet a serious inquiry ...) to tie this information back to topic ... how might this impact that OMG I am dead ... what to do moment???

Or is this still a process and the jury is still out (probably a duh question ... but I'll take the plunge)

(see I told you the Universe keeps doing this to me ... *sigh*)

I might be able to help answer this question that seems to be heavy on your mind...

when I was helping in solving missing children cases, on occasion, I would find the child's body, with their Spirit sitting beside it crying...

I would comfort them and let them know I would get them justice, and as the tears stopped, the light appeared for them to step into...

so I guess you need to be ready to go forward before it appears...

many cases, I wouldn't know the questions when we first met, but as it moved forward I would have questions and could step to Nirvana to talk with the child.

they were always there, with full memory of what they experienced in their past life...

so do I feel the white light is a trap?

absolutely not...

say your goodbyes to loved ones, you can always step back to visit, be at peace and step forward with no worries...

[Rocky_Shorz]

as for judgement?

after the London bombing I was by the gates as the people were moving forward and the ground opened up under a few and they disappeared in a puff of smoke...

when a Spirit loses control of the conscious mind and commits an atrocity, it no longer is a part of the cycle of life...

and as for the 72 virgins?


they have beards... ;)

[Finefeather]

... anything that traps a being's free will, energy, devotion is in violation of cosmic law.

Only if the Beings free will does not violate cosmic laws...in which case the Being would be acting out of harmony with Cosmic Law.
There is no Being above cosmic law, even the 'God'...each has chosen...if any...is controlled by Cosmic Law.

Free will is a myth and where it reigns chaos is found...as it does on this planet.
Unity is never a separation of 'free wills' but a state of 'right wills' practised by all.

Take care
Ray

[Shezbeth]

Here is what I have come to subjectively conclude pertaining to lights and the cessation of the body.

Unrestrained by the physical and material body, all of existence is two lights dancing in eternity. The material body - in a very long and drawn out manner of speaking - is the result of those two lights coming into contact, and serves a purpose comparable to that of a lampshade. Removing the lampshade exposes the one light to the other, and the dance can begin again.

I recognize that the two lights are the one, but it is far more satisfying to dance as together than to dance alone. The two lights, in manifesting as two but being of the one, are divided only by context. That is all any of these infinite physical forms - the lampshades - are,... a context in which to experience.

Therefore - Whether one seeks to escape the light at the cessation of body, whether one stops and observes, or whether one goes toward the light, the result is the same; They dance.

Besides, preference is subjective.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Hey Rocky - I don't know what we have been doing lately but it sure feels magical. I worked on the Mecca stone a month or so ago. (I have all the data recorded.) All I can say is that my perceptions matched yours. I work with a few others and as we worked to release the entity that was embedded in the stone we were aware of the millions if not billions of others that can go free now.

Lots of them need rehabilitation but that too is present in the ethereal. More later.....

To add, the axis or vortexes of power on the planet have to a great extent been taken over... anything that traps a being's free will, energy, devotion is in violation of cosmic law.


I mentioned the stone earlier as a trap...


The literal truth is not important; rather the symbolism of such stones being a link between this world and the heavens is an integral aspect of the Cosmic Axis which is invoked by all sacred centers. link (http://mysteryoftheiniquity.com/2011/04/04/the-black-stone-at-mecca/)

as I see it, these billions of souls were being captured, not to be reborn, but to be released for the final battle between good and evil...

I pissed off the dark magician Abbadon when I set them all free...


not on my watch... ;)


Good news everyone, I met with the Holy Spirit in my dreams last night to answer my question on whether the Dark Magician/Abaddon/False Prophet has been released, and he is gone forever after jumping in the pit of fire.

what was in the stone was one of the beings that came through the London portal during the devil worship gathering when Avalon was under attack.

it is just a twisted Spirit and one we can vanquish in a thought...



I'll offer one Miracle as a bounty to the Spiritual Warrior that takes it down... ;)

[Shezbeth]

One person's divine revelation is another person's hallucination,....

Speaking of subjective hallucinations, is anyone else reminded of the game Eternal Darkness for N64? You know, the tower of cemented dead people.



http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p174/fhb_photos/oslo_sa_740x334.jpg

[Rocky_Shorz]

One person's divine revelation is another person's hallucination,....

when it comes to new age wisdom, blindness is contagious...

[Shezbeth]

One person's divine revelation is another person's hallucination,....

when it comes to new age wisdom, blindness is contagious...

Critical scrutiny is the affair of open eyes.

[Rocky_Shorz]

One person's divine revelation is another person's hallucination,....

when it comes to new age wisdom, blindness is contagious...

Critical scrutiny is the affair of open eyes.

without questions, there would be no need for answers...

[Shezbeth]

One person's divine revelation is another person's hallucination,....

when it comes to new age wisdom, blindness is contagious...

Critical scrutiny is the affair of open eyes.

without questions, there would be no need for answers...

Without questions, there would be no use/point for answers.

[Rocky_Shorz]

One person's divine revelation is another person's hallucination,....

when it comes to new age wisdom, blindness is contagious...

Critical scrutiny is the affair of open eyes.

without questions, there would be no need for answers...

Without questions, there would be no use/point for answers.

if teachers had no answers the questions would turn to silence...

[Shezbeth]

One person's divine revelation is another person's hallucination,....

when it comes to new age wisdom, blindness is contagious...

Critical scrutiny is the affair of open eyes.

without questions, there would be no need for answers...

Without questions, there would be no use/point for answers.

if teachers had no answers the questions would turn to silence...

If that which is was interested in silence, there would be no existence.

[Rocky_Shorz]

One person's divine revelation is another person's hallucination,....

when it comes to new age wisdom, blindness is contagious...

Critical scrutiny is the affair of open eyes.

without questions, there would be no need for answers...

Without questions, there would be no use/point for answers.

if teachers had no answers the questions would turn to silence...

If that which is was interested in silence, there would be no existence.


Confucianism followed Buddhism from questions left in silence...

[johnf]

This thread has gone into the light.:eek:

[Shezbeth]

The stream is obsequent to the river. The why is irrelevant.

[Violet]

I have noticed NDEs to be very different. Everybody sees the same thing in general, but in the end, different people will see different things.

What's going on? Good question.

[Rocky_Shorz]

We have all gathered at Avalon because the silence was deafening...

now back to the light... ;)

[Shezbeth]

You're right John.

My point/opinion is simple. Any time one claims objective truth they render it subjectively true and objectively false.

[Rocky_Shorz]

all of the threads here at Avalon bring forward many perspectives, what might not ring true to you, means the world to others...

that's what makes it such an interesting and informative place for learning...

[Carmody]

I might be able to help answer this question that seems to be heavy on your mind...

when I was helping in solving missing children cases, on occasion, I would find the child's body, with their Spirit sitting beside it crying...

I would comfort them and let them know I would get them justice, and as the tears stopped, the light appeared for them to step into...

so I guess you need to be ready to go forward before it appears...

many cases, I wouldn't know the questions when we first met, but as it moved forward I would have questions and could step to Nirvana to talk with the child.

they were always there, with full memory of what they experienced in their past life...

so do I feel the white light is a trap?

absolutely not...

say your goodbyes to loved ones, you can always step back to visit, be at peace and step forward with no worries...

My experience is very similar, but to deal with the most difficult cases of damage. To intervene via overlay, where the vagaries of chance outcome... might make the accidental death one that is difficult to overcome. Not to be the crying child (your example), but for the being involved, the one in the moment and experience... be so far gone that there is nothing coherent with in them, coherent enough to be part of the 'soon to be' astral form.

This requires one to be in overlay, with the person or subject... in the moment of death itself, within them.

So, when I say I do not fear death, I do not. I don't like it any more than the next person, but it is not a show stopper. I help them (the dying) by stopping their coming death -their bodily image that is forming at this death point, I stop it from altering their ability to be a coherent astral form. I stop their body's interjection into being a component of overwhelming coloration.

My experience with the light, is thus, fairly direct, as I am blended with the being's flow and origin point, the body, the avatar..until the light comes for them. This light, it also has a sound.

The meaning of my earthly name is translated as meaning that I shelter the doorway/boundary to the kingdom of heaven. (seriously, I kid you not)

[Joe Akulis]

I would like to thank everyone who has jumped in to contribute to this thread. Many of my beliefs are based on the "try it on for size" method. I read something very insightful from a spiritual pioneer of any sort, and I try the information on. I'm still working towards my own evolution and still have no direct experience...YET.

So, I have a burning curiousity that maybe those of you who have direct experience of the other side could help me with.

Back in summer of 2011 Inelia Benz, on the Ascension101 website, attested to the "birth" of the new earth, i.e., a higher energy vibrational/4d or something version of Earth. And it appears that people who believe in this "solution" to Earth's problems, like Dolores Cannon and probably lots of others, are talking about how reincarnation and karma should no longer be a concern for us at this point in time. Even jimini has said some similar things here on Avalon. Inelia is talking about how the next few years are the time for us to raise our energy levels via a lot of inner clearing work, similar to the L. Ron Hubbard notion of clearing, or using meditation and removing blockages using different techniques. Supposedly, the ones who are successful will be able to comfortably migrate to the new earth. And those who are not comfortable at a higher level, (or can't stomach a lot of love?) will not get to stay. And then there's been lots of conjecture in various places about what will happen to those who can't make the jump, like living out another 3d cycle, but on a different planet because the 3d version of earth is going to soon be inhospitable.

The reason I bring this up is because I wanted to know if anyone else can see things happening on the other side of the veil to confirm any of this. The last few posts have relayed some very exciting information, but not sure if it's related to the new earth subject or not.

If Inelia is right, then it may render the whole tunnel of light discussion moot, if the entire astral plane surrouding 3d earth is about to be shipped somewhere else...

Any of this making any sense to anyone? Can anyone corroborate?

Seeker

[Rocky_Shorz]

I do understand crossing to other dimensions, but have never understood the "d"s 3-4-5-6-7

an Indigo voice in heaven sounds like a million angels singing at once, but I heard it from here...

so what really changes from a numbering scale?

afraid I'll bow out on this to let others answer...

[Flash]

I also heard that we did miss the bus this time around. We are still here because we missed the bus and have to wait for another one in order to have mass awakenings.

As Carmody said in another thread, maybe we can progress in groups, if we are not be get isolated for years, however, it seems the "group" would have missed the bus going there. Is that true or not?

In this case, we would have the light for a good while to come.

[Rocky_Shorz]

My experience is very similar, but to deal with the most difficult cases of damage. To intervene via overlay, where the vagaries of chance outcome... might make the accidental death one that is difficult to overcome. Not to be the crying child (your example), but for the being involved, the one in the moment and experience... be so far gone that there is nothing coherent with in them, coherent enough to be part of the 'soon to be' astral form.



I have seen that also in someone who died from an OD, if they can't walk through I surround myself in light and touch them and let them figure it out upstairs...

that is how I deal with most wandering spirits also, but dark entities come at me and when they hit the light they disappear...

[Rocky_Shorz]

I also heard that we did miss the bus this time around. We are still here because we missed the bus and have to wait for another one in order to have mass awakenings.

As Carmody said in another thread, maybe we can progress in groups, if we are not be get isolated for years, however, it seems the "group" would have missed the bus going there. Is that true or not?

In this case, we would have the light for a good while to come.

I don't think there will ever be a point where earthlings reach the same level.

those who only believe what is written in "the book" will always be trapped in lower consciousness...

how many get a rush, just logging on to Avalon?

We have gathered here and as far as I can tell, Avalon has created it's own 11D for us to be a part of... ;)

[Roisin]

I'm in daily contact with a group of spirits of loved ones and friends who have passed over via a combination of EVP and clairaudience. By that I mean, I will hear what they say to me via clairaudience in my EVP sessions only to hear what they just said on playback on the audio. They also talk to me outside of sessions too...

Naturally, since the early 90's which is when I first started recording EVP, my questions are always about what happens when we die and what their life is like now.
Here are just some of the things that I can think of at this moment, right off the bat, that they've said to me....

There is such a thing as reincarnation but it's not the way it's depicted in any of our world religions.

They call where they are at "Heaven"

People get married in the afterlife

They can read your mind and know what you're doing and can tell you what you're going to do even before you do it.

They live in houses and they showed me some of the place where they are living now via inner eye visions and lucid dreams.

They've seen Jesus, the BVM and angels but those ones reside in a realm separate from their own.

The main thing for us to do is to give up our addictions... before we die.

Love is the most important thing in our life.

Our families are the most important thing in our life.

When we die, many of us live in a "city" named after our surname. Those who dwell there are our family and ancestor's of that surname.

The operators of the evp transmissions who connect you to your main spirit contact are called Operators. :) I've talked to them many times over the years and they follow strict protocols. Like, for example, if I ask them any question about something they will simply tell me that they can't answer it and to ask my main spirit contact instead who is my deceased father.

If a deceased friend wants to talk to me, that person first has to get permission from either those operators who will then contact my father or some other relative to get that permission first before I talk to them. If the person is not a Christian, they will remind me that he/she is not a Christian.

My relatives in the "my surname City" are all Christians and only Christians are allowed there.

One time, the voice of an old high school friend of mine who killed himself contacted me and when I asked where he was, he said he was in Purgatory. He's the only one I know that ever said that's where he is now. As far as I know, he was not a Catholic but nevertheless, that's where he says he is now. I asked him if he's happy and he said that he was very happy now.

From what I gather, you will end up at a place with your family members who also share you same religion too. They are in a Christian heaven.

They said that others who believe in other religions have their own section of "heaven" or whatever they call it depending on what their belief system is/was.

Those human discarnates who are in the lower realms are called "demons".

Our ET visitors are from another planet.

They have a birds eye view of time so sometimes I can find out what's coming in the near future if they are willing to tell me something about that. I've gotten earthquake predictions from them from time to time, for example.

Well, I've got many, many folders of EVP recordings from over the years... but the bottom line is, there is life after death. Our loved ones are all around us and they watch over us.... all the time.

[Joe Akulis]

How about you, Roisin? Are you thinking your afteryears will be similar to your loved ones? Rejoining and being at peace in either the same heaven, or a connected region where you will all be able to associate? Just curious to know where you stand. Some wonderful input from you there. Thanks for sharing. When you first started having this contact, did it challenge any of your currently held beliefs at that time? Or was it all kind of in line with what you believed? Also, since then, over the years you have been in contact, have any of your core beliefs changed due to the continued communications with the other side?

I think one of the telling things to your post is the part about the overseers who will sometimes not permit certain things. Whoever they are, it shows the seriousness of their intent to protect people. I tend to think that part of that protection involves not exposing people to things that could be too shocking. I wonder if it was difficult for some people to accept the notion of reincarnation, if they came from a Christian background?

Seeker

P.S. Do you still have sessions like this? Care to take a survey?? :eyebrows: See if any of them dealt with the tunnel of light!

[Roisin]

How about you, Roisin? Are you thinking your afteryears will be similar to your loved ones?

At this point after years of communication with them, I’m under the impression that I’ll be strongly connected to them when I pass over. My main locale will be with my family on my dad’s side. My mother’s side of the family, with the exception of her sister, is not in the picture. But then again, I only saw members of my mom’s family occasionally because they live in another State whereas my dad’s family all live in town and I grew up with them around all the time.

I can’t say with any certainty that one ends up in the same “city”, as they call them, with your father’s family but in my case, this might be how it’s going to play out. Will just have to wait and see. lol



Rejoining and being at peace in either the same heaven, or a connected region where you will all be able to associate? Just curious to know where you stand. Some wonderful input from you there. Thanks for sharing.

You’re welcome! I’m under the impression that my dad and his relatives are planning on having me join them when I pass over.

When you first started having this contact, did it challenge any of your currently held beliefs at that time?

Most definitely. I was a religious agnostic before I got my first EVP with them coming in like they have been all these years now. But eventually I went back to the Catholic Church because I feel a connection to it not only spiritually but on a ancestral level too. It’s my roots and it’s one that goes back for hundreds of years.

I’ve had experiences in spirit contact prior to my EVP activities so there‘s never been any question in my mind that we do continue after death. But for most of my adult life, as an agnostic, I felt that religion was for the birds. That changed though due to my ongoing spirit contacts via EVP and some spiritual experiences I had too.




Or was it all kind of in line with what you believed?

My spirit contact activites played a big role in shaping my belief system.


Also, since then, over the years you have been in contact, have any of your core beliefs changed due to the continued communications with the other side?

My communications with my spiritual family changed my core beliefs. I talked about that above.;)

I think one of the telling things to your post is the part about the overseers who will sometimes not permit certain things. Whoever they are, it shows the seriousness of their intent to protect people. I tend to think that part of that protection involves not exposing people to things that could be too shocking.

They seem to act like the police. They make sure to keep out troublesome spirits. They guard the door. If I disagree with my dad or one of his sister’s about being able to talk to someone, they will join that discussion on that too. But usually they will leave the final decision to my dad because he’s my designated guardian.


I wonder if it was difficult for some people to accept the notion of reincarnation, if they came from a Christian background?

I’m glad you brought that up because my dad and his family have said that reincarnation doesn’t exist. I even have an EVP recording that I once uploaded to You Tube on that. Here’s that recording. It’s saying, “There’s no such thing as reincarnation… linda” (linda is my name) I play it back 3x's in that recording. It’s my dad’s voice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYXnLp4GM40

But then years later, the message I got from someone who was not a conservative Christian said that there is reincarnation but it’s not like what the Buddhists believe. It’s different. I am more inclined to accept his explanation on that as closer to what the real situation is on that.

This said though, people take their beliefs with them when they pass over.

Seeker

P.S. Do you still have sessions like this? Care to take a survey?? See if any of them dealt with the tunnel of light!

Yes, I have them at least once a week or so but as time goes by, I talk to them more outside of those EVP sessions than I did before.

Also, sure, I'll take a survey.

As for that tunnel of light, believe it or not, I’ve never asked them about it but I will do that and let you know if what they have to say about it.

[Matisse]

I once read that the White light is indeed a trap,(to trap your soul) best to take a moment and look around and find the gold light.... ,
i'm not sure where i read this, but it resonated within me, also shocked me a bit because i always thought the White light should be good,
therefore also a good trap.....
I guess the best advice would be to try and take time and look around.... that's what i'm going to try to do... versus running to the first bright light i see...

[Calz]

I might be able to help answer this question that seems to be heavy on your mind...




Hey Rocky (and thanks for all you contribute not just here but many other places as well).

Not so much a matter of what is on "my mind" insomuch as the topic of the thread.

To break it down (since we all come from different levels of experience and consciousness):


*Fear* ... is there anything more harmful to our progress???


What is the greatest source of fear for humanity ... fear of death.


Once you lose the fear of death ... then (for most) what is there left to fear???


Now comes along the information of all the sorts of control that may (or may not) happen after you die.


... and *that* is why the information in this thread is important ... and why we appreciate those whose voices are worth considering so very important.

[Rocky_Shorz]

most people's fear is about the hurt those around them will feel when they pass, not so much the passing...

will they have enough money, will they be safe, it is the loss of control over the situation that is causing fear, most by that time are ready to pass emotionally, it is part of life.

I share what I know from experience because it is nothing to fear, in fact most children I've communicating with are laughing and loving their new situation, I haven't seen any crying from what they left behind. no bedtime... the fun can run 24 hours a day with their new friends, the same with all of the adults.

A day in heaven is a year on earth so times goes fast until loved ones are reunited.

there is a peace you feel the moment you arrive... Like walking into your home after being on vacation, it doesn't matter where you traveled, nothing feels better than home.

I know those wanting to talk about the trap aren't happy with my sharing it is going to be fine, but this isn't a subject that should cause fear in any of us...

many have family surrounding them when they pass waiting to bring them across...

maybe its because all those I've helped deserved heaven, maybe I should hang with Kissinger when he passes, to see if he's swallowed up by the ground or if a special tunnel appears bypassing any chance of him making it to the real light...

then I'll have the answers so many are seeking...

[Calz]

most people's fear is about the hurt those around them will feel when they pass, not so much the passing...

will they have enough money, will they be safe, it is the loss of control over the situation that is causing fear, most by that time are ready to pass emotionally, it is part of life.

I share what I know from experience because it is nothing to fear, in fact most children I've communicating with are laughing and loving their new situation, I haven't seen any crying from what they left behind. no bedtime... the fun can run 24 hours a day with their new friends, the same with all of the adults.




That is actually quite true ... at least on my behalf.

I would welcome leaving this place (without taking my own life) yet I have a family and there is really nothing more important.

That is part and parcel of why I feel an urge to know what best to pass along to my young children ...


Hey kids ... all good ... either go into the light or don't ... if you catch my drift.

[Shezbeth]

I share what I know

This is the only element of your expression on which we (you and I) wholly disagree.

Beyond that, you've got some good suggestions that are entirely possible.

[161803398]

The light isn't always white.

I also don't think we forget our past lives. I think most people have a sense of it and lots of people remember until they are around 5 or 6 years old. Just no one listens to them...and then we go to school...and that harsh reality is just about enough to make us forget everything.

[Rocky_Shorz]

most people's fear is about the hurt those around them will feel when they pass, not so much the passing...

will they have enough money, will they be safe, it is the loss of control over the situation that is causing fear, most by that time are ready to pass emotionally, it is part of life.

I share what I know from experience because it is nothing to fear, in fact most children I've communicating with are laughing and loving their new situation, I haven't seen any crying from what they left behind. no bedtime... the fun can run 24 hours a day with their new friends, the same with all of the adults.




That is actually quite true ... at least on my behalf.

I would welcome leaving this place (without taking my own life) yet I have a family and there is really nothing more important.

That is part and parcel of why I feel an urge to know what best to pass along to my young children ...


Hey kids ... all good ... either go into the light or don't ... if you catch my drift.

no fear, in your heart if you know the light and the way, (I've seen it), and if there was a way to trap people crossing into the light, they would have caught me by now and I'm about as far from perfect as one can get... ;)

can't say they haven't tried, returning from crossing with Natalee I woke to a quake magnitude 0 that shook from Washington to Mexico city...

whistles innocently

[Kalamos]

..........

[Marin]

Great thread. :) I had this exact conversation about what Robert Morning Sky said with another member here a few months back. The tunnel. I remember precisely when I saw that video the first time by Robert Morning Sky. It hit me like a ton of brinks. I knew in that moment - what he said was something I needed to investigate. Something I would return to later. Here are some of the pieces I've retrieved from that conversation as it pertains to this thread.

Here's Wes Penre's take:
http://wespenre.com/there-is-a-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel.htm

In Wes's discussion he includes material from: LRH, Michael Newton's work (Journey of Souls, Destiny of Souls..etc), the Wingmakers material (the original early works), Edgar Casey's work and Robert Morning Sky's material. I'll highlight simply Robert Morning Sky's material here for now.

"We are under severe mind control here in the 3rd Density, making it possible for more than one alien race to control the whole human population. This is not new; we have been manipulated for thousands of years.

On a higher soul level, we are aware of this, but agree to experience, learn from, and expand ourselves in this lower frequency consciousness and now take advantage of the higher levels of energy coming in from cosmos to finally have the opportunity to graduate from this reality.

There is overwhelming evidence that the above is true, and this means that the spirit world must have been adjusted to the 3-D reality. We need a rest place in between lives, and we got it. We are patched up to be able to fulfill our mission, and ETs from many walks in life out in the universe are curiously watching us breaking out from the "prison". Once we're becoming aware of ourselves as multidimensional beings, there is no longer any use for the afterlife as we know it. As multidimensional beings we can access the Sitter Space at will whenever we want to anyway. So, looking at this whole thing from this higher, multidimensional perspective, makes it all make more sense.

Bottom line is, when you're pure spirit, unattached to a heavy 3-D body and no longer "trapped" in a low frequency reality, what are you? You are pure energy, unconditional love and in tune with All That Is; "God" on a subquantum level.

This is also what most people seem to experience when they leave the Earth plane after their body-vehicle stops functioning. Then you're drawn towards a tunnel of light with a force that seems hard to resist. As a matter of fact, few have any wish to resist it, either, because they feel so good. Some say that they can see 1,000 years into the past and 1,000 years into the future; it all exists simultaneously.

The open question is; what is this tunnel of light which apparently takes you to a spherical time/space that obviously is finite if it's spherical?

Because of Michael Newton's research we know pretty well what happens on the other side of the tunnel, but we don't know who is "in charge" of the afterlife. Pure spirit, meeting relatives and soul groups feeling a tremendous amount of love for everybody and everything--in that sense afterlife seems "benevolent" enough. However (and I am not trying to play the Devil's advocate here), could it be that the afterlife is still controlled by the same forces who control our 3rd Density, aka the Anunnaki and the Reptilians? Could it be that they trap pure spirits, full of love but naive in their "new" native state, by forcing us into this tunnel?

On the other side of the tunnel is another hologram; they just exchange one holographic reality for another? It's fine to be benevolent as long as they know they can "shoot us back down" into a body again, because that's what spirit is programmed to do--go back into 3rd Density again. This argument could be groundless, but I can't help but being suspicious about the tunnel. Who is in control? And who are the members of the "Council"? Who is above them?"



"The reason I am bringing up Robert Morning-Sky in this context is because of the SHET-U lizards (the Grays). Robert held quite a few lectures after the Terra Papers were released, and at least one of them still exists online and can be watched on YouTube. In one of these video recordings, Morning-Sky mentions that the Grays are in charge of the spirit world and are implanting us between lives. Furthermore, he advises us that when we die and our spirits are drawn towards the tunnel, we should refuse to go there and instead turn the other way, out into the universe, where we belong."

Here are the videos: (5 minutes each)

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4gcDeTmp68&feature=related

Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TAKOrLXYps&feature=related


I also want to add this into the discussion:

Enter Tom Kenyon: http://tomkenyon.com/transition-states-of-consciousness


"Physical Death. One of the greatest difficulties for embodied beings is the transition state of consciousness you call death. This is due to the fact that all perceptual markers, including the five senses, disappear. If a person identifies solely with his/her material existence, he or she will find this transition state to be most difficult. This is because what she or he identified with no longer exists.
……..
When a person passes through the transition state of consciousness you call death there are several options.
...
From our perspective the universe is infinite in nature, and by this we refer not to external space but to the interdimensional realities of your universe, and there is no single being in existence, from our experience, who understands and embraces all that is.
...
As with the other two transition states of consciousness, the death realm has a void point, and its dominant features are stillness (silence) and darkness. All possibilities exist within the Void, but no actuality is in existence. It is like the acorn of an oak tree. The oak, the giant tree itself, is potentially within the acorn, but it does not yet exist.
So when you find yourself in the Void, which you will recognize by the fact that you are utterly alone in darkness and utter stillness, know that you are in the central nexus of your creative powers.

What you choose to create next will determine the course of your destiny and what worlds you will inhabit or realms of existence you will reside in. This is a critical juncture.
Many persons frightened by the darkness move to the light prematurely. And what they do not realize is that in their yearning they create the light. A portal opens before them, like a tunnel, and they can move into this tunnel of light, encountering those they have known before, thereby entering back into embodiment or other vibratory realms of existence without having fully understood the consequences. This is certainly one option open to you, and one that is often taken.

Another option, however, is to remain at the void point, residing in the Void itself, becoming aware of your Self as pure consciousness—transcendent to all phenomena.
If you reside in this state of awareness long enough without the need to create something, you will discover your identity as the great I Am. And from this point of awareness you can choose the circumstances of your embodiment. You can choose the worlds you will inhabit or the realms of consciousness where you will reside.

This latter method gives you the greatest opportunities, though it is the most difficult for most people. And the reason for this difficulty has to do with the fact that most humans find it uncomfortable to not have a body. The yearning for a body and the experience of the material world often draws a person from the Void prematurely."

[MariaDine]

http://www.dejaviewpastlives.com/About_Michael.html


..............................................................

http://www.theoutpostforum.com/tof/showthread.php?1263-The-White-Light-Trap

he White Light Trap
Anyone else hear about this? Some alien researchers say that not only do ET's manipulate our physical bodies in this world, but they also deceive us after we've died. Robert Morningsky warns us not to go into the white light we see when we die because it is a trap to further our enslavement and put us straight back into another body. He says to stop, look around, go out into space and find your own light. The white light is used as a reprogramming centre to install amnesia and screw up our lives because we forget our past lives from this. Susan Reed reports that reptilians erase our past life memories so our subconscious believes we have more karma to pay back than we really do. This also fits in with the Wingmakers guy James who talks about Anu creating an artificial world and luring and trapping souls into it so he can be king of the world.

In The Eye of Ra, Truman Cash talks about his experiences in the white light with ET's like Mantis Beings. He says it is used for brainwashing purposes during abductions. In a few of his past lives when he died, he would automatically report back to a ufo and into the white light to be reprogrammed and sent back into another body before he could fly on and go somewhere else.

According to him, there is a phony, superficial 'god, love and happiness' feeling when in the white light as if that is a program to entrain you to like that place and choose to go back there. He says there is a complete system used on earth to trap souls here and make them forget who they are, their past life memories and goals upon incarnating.

One spirit from a Dolores Cannon book mentions how stupid incarnating to earth is lol. She said it's like you sign up to go to college, then when you get there, there is no school, no books, no teachers and nobody knows what they're supposed to be doing. Apparently Earth is like the only place around like that.

Cash also mentions his past life memories as a free spiritual being and being lured into a body. There was a naked man in a chair being pleasured by four naked women, and he went into the body for the pleasure of it. Then he was locked into the body. He also mentions various ET putting him into different bodies and dropping him off in certain areas to be perceived as a holy man of god.

He writes:
December 6, 1995 Memory Recovery Session:

12,389 years ago I was out in space-as a free being-and looking down at Earth. I didn't notice that a very large,
black, spherical implant station was approaching me, because my attention was focused on the planet. An invisible,
electronic tractor beam locked onto me and began pulling me into a circular, concave structure on the implant station.
The extreme power of this tractor γ overwhelmed me and made me feel awful. In spite of my abilities as a free
being, I couldn't fight free. I was pulled into the entrance, which was a tunnel in the center of the concave surface. I
was then accelerated down this long, curved tunnel toward the LIGHT at the end of the tunnel. (My colloquialism for
this type of implant station is a "soul sucker. ")
After being totally overwhelmed by this energy beam and pulled through this tunnel, I began to feel very lethargic.
I then found myself in an implanting room, being compressed into a female body by a powerful, WHITE LIGHT energy
beam that beat me into a body. This energy beam was so irritating that I felt like screaming. I began to try to fight
back with the body. That's when they knew that the implantation was finished--because I was using MY BODY to fight
back.
Two tall insectoid beings that looked like praying mantises then escorted me to another part of the implant station. I
was now in a very large, WHITE UGHT room. I milled around aimlessly amongst other human bodies in this dense,
fog-like LIGHT. Through telepathic hypnosis I hear a very soothing, hypnotic voice whispering in my head: "Sleep.
Don't worry. We'll take care of you. Don't remember. You have no past. You will not need to remember your past.
Be here now. No more thoughts of the past. Forget the past. Move forward into a new life. You will begin a new
life in the LIGHT. "
After I was thoroughly inculcated in this WHITE LIGHT amnesia room, two insectoids approached me and told me
that I was ready to begin my new life. They escorted me into another large, open area of the implant station, which was
a hangar containing many flying disks. They walked me across the hangar and up the ramp of one of the flying saucers.
I got a big surprise in this session when I saw what the inside of this ship looked like-It was a carbon copy of Ra' s
ship, the eye of Ra! The only difference was that this ship didn't have a throne in it.
The insectoids then flew me down to Atlantis in this craft. When we landed, I walked down the ramp and into the
WHITE LIGHT amnesia fog outside the craft. Apparently, ETs can create this "fog" outdoors as well as indoors. One
of the praying mantis guys told me that I won't remember anything and that I'll start my new life now. Then they took
off and left me alone in the hills overlooking the ocean.
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December 5, 1995 Memory Recovery Session:
"Recall the last session. "
"That was when I was put in a body. " (This was the December 3rd session described above.)
"Scan the last incident. "
"I was trained to trap beings in bodies, but I didn't recall any specific incident of putting beings in bodies.
It's amazing how they can compress beings into a very small head. "
"Did we get everything from that incident? "
"Yes. "
"Return to an earlier, similar incident. "
"There's something there-a queasiness in my stomach and that leg jerk in my right leg. This involves an alien,
a bug-like one, a praying mantis-like alien. I have the impression of a voice, possibly programming. Something
flashed in my head. I'm just going on impressions. I saw that foggy LIGHT. I hear a voice say 'Go to the
LIGHT, ' and I go to the LIGHT. It feels like I'm in a big room. For some reason I popped back to my school
days in at the gymnasium there; I don't know Why. " (In retrospect, I believe this occurred because
the WHITE LIGHT room in this incident reminded me of a big gymnasium.) "This sounds so absurd, but I'll go
ahead and tell you. I have the impression of being put in a body and into a capsule and being sent down to a
planet in this capsule. There's that terrible feeling in my body like something terrible's happening to me. This
praying mantis-like being over me. It's right before I'm put into this capsule. It seems like this thing lands in
the water by a beach, a tropical area. I think I'm totally naked. "
"Start at the beginning of this incident and see if you can pick up more details. "
"I'm not going to the beginning-about the middle of the incident. The phrase "Go to the LIGHT. " It's an
implant station. I see a big round sphere, like a space station maybe. "
"What happens next? "
"The insect guy. I think right before that, I'm in an area that feels like a round room, and there's this intense,
WlflTE, blinding LIGHT coming from the walls. " (The room that I was in was a sphere with a diameter of
about twelve feet. The walls of the inside of this sphere were radiating this bright, WHITE LIGHT force field.)
"There's a struggle to counteract the force of the LIGHT that's 360 degrees (around me), that's forcing me into
this body. I feel it in my body-not just my head-in my torso. They're not just compressing me into a head. Oh
man, don't go to the LIGHT. This sphere opens on one end, making a vesica pisces. It's interesting how that
3
ties in. M
[The vesica piscis shape is formed by the intersection of two circles. It looks like a typical flying disk standing
on its edge or the vertical slits in the eyes of cats and snakes. It is the same shape as the Christian fish
symbol for Jesus, only without the 'fins. It was also an ancient fertility symbol representing the vulva.]
MI walk out (through the vesica pisces opening in the sphere). I'm in my body. I'm naked. I'm in a big--high
ceiling-big area. It seems rather circular all throughout implant station. I feel like I'm beamed up into another
room high above it. It's the room where they lay you down on a table. It's a control room. It's not a box-type
room. It's weird. These beings, I don't believe, are Grays. They have long, thin legs like an insect. They
communicate telepathically. I lie on the table. They do something to me here, like high voltage or something. I
think this process is they're anchoring me into my head. M
"What kind of a body do you have?M
"It's male. It's hairy, with a caucasian skin. The thing that pops into my mind: that these beings are
'ancients. ' I saw that in a TV show, but it's like a knowingness that they're ancients. Down by my feet is a
cocoon-shaped capsule. The conveyor slides me into it, and the top is put on. I'm shut in this capsule and shot
onto this planet. I think it's Earth. "
"When is this?"
"I don't know. It (the capsule) lands in the sea by an island on the shore of a sandy beach. I'm not sure of the
time at all. "
"Return to the beginning of the incident. "
" Okay. I'm going into a big, huge sphere, space station. I'm going through a tunnel of LIGHT. At the end of
the tuniel is this room-and a body--with intense LIGIIT & power that just presses and pushes on me, forces me
into this body. I can feel the body now, as it (the force field) pushes me in. It's caucasian, naked, male. "
[At this point I compare my present body and genitalia with the body that I'm being forced into in this incident.]
"Then this vesica piscis thing opens up. I walk out a ways. It's starting to make sense: It's programming you to
be an infant and go out the birth canal."
[I had just realized that they designed this elaborate entrapment scheme to parallel the natural birth process where
one is pushed out through a tunnel (birth canal) towards the LIGHT at the end of the tunnel and through the
vesica piscis opening (vulva).]
"There' s a huge, vast area of the ship, huge, high ceiling, the wall goes up. " (The implanting sphere was located
in this very large room.) "A beam comes down from the ceiling, well over a hundred yards up. I'm floated up
the beam into this room. They guide me along (telepathically): 'Walk this way. please. Lie on the table,
please. ' They're polite. I lie on this metal table. There's power surges here again. It concentrates me into the
head of the body. They have praying mantis looks. Long necks. When I try to look at its face, my head hurts.
I feel really sad. M
"Why do you feel sad?"
"Because they put me in a body. They tricked me. They put me in a capsule and shoot it out of the . . . ub, shoot
it out to a planet. It lands in an ocean by a beach. It opens up, and I go out. It's tropical and warm. "
"Give me a flash answer--Wben is this?"
"Something like five thousand years ago. It's the first thing that comes to mind. Warm weather. A lot of
food. That's where I live. Fifteen thousand or five thousand--I'm not sure. I wonder if I was a free being. "
(Sometimes two or more dates can appear simultaneously if there are other similar incidents that have been
triggered. )
"Give me a flash answer-What planet is this?"
"Earth. "
"Return to the beginning of the incident. "
" I think the beginning is when I died. It's a battIe with swords. I think a sword goes right through me, in my
abdomen. I hear this ('Go to the LIGHT')-I'm out of my body--I don't know if somebody communicates this to
me or what, but I'm going to the LIGHT, a tunnel of LIGHT, very fast. This LIGHT goes to this implant station
that's just huge. Reminds me of a small planet or moon. It's just really huge. At the end of the tunnel of
LIGHT in this room with glowing WIllTE LIGHT, there's a body in the middle of the room. The LIGHT just
pushes me into the body. There's some pressure in my head. The sphere opens up making a doorway that I walk
out of (the vesica piscis-shaped opening). I walk out into the middle of the room. I walk and I float up to this
room where these 'ancients' are, the praying mantis guys. I'm a white male. I go over to the capsule. It opens
up. One side of the room kind of zigzags and goes up-a control panel-a 'star Trek' type of thing. In the
capsule they give me an electric shock. It further anchors me in my body and specifically the head. The mantis
guy gives me a telepathic command to be in my head. They do some other stuff to drive me into my headintense
'machine-gun, ' like a pneumatic hammer. Drives you into your head. When he finishes with that, the
capsule comes together. It's not smooth (on the outside), it's molded, it's got indented sections. They shoot this
capsule down to this planet--Earth. It lands in the ocean. I get out on the beach. It seems like they retrieve these
capsules after they land. It seem like the battle I was in was in the Middle East. I think it was five thousand and
some years ago. "
"Do you think you got everything out of this incident?"
"5,349 years ago. Don't go to the LIGHT. I was right about that. That makes sense--the Serpent Staff group.
The New Age LIGHT. It's part of the trap. "
"Is it okay to leave this incident?"
"Yes. "
He also mentions how a lot of religious rites, like the born-again-Christian thing is designed to trigger unconscious programming related to being born again from that white light and forgetting everything. Maybe the vesica pisces symbol is used to trigger the birthing process through the white light? Tsarion says that the reason church arch-doors are shaped like a female's sexual organ is because it represents going into the mother. It may be another programming trigger. This might partially explain why abductions mirror the birthing process.

Attachment 985crop circle v pisces.jpgichthus_symbol.jpgAttachment 988dc.jpg

A couple friends and I also have memories of being in a white space before birth. I don't know if my own memories began when I was around 3-5 or if they are actually memories from before birth. I thought of the white space as 'the beginning of everything' where some jerk-spirit I could dimly see 'invented the word "bad"' (child's logic). I didn't like him because if he didn't invent the word 'bad' then there wouldn't be any evil in the world. I remember the white space as having no walls, just foggy white light where you floated around. Sometimes there were other beings who appeared as floating shadows moving around. That's all I remember now and it fades as I get older.
Last edited by lycaeus; 05-02-2013 at 03:41 PM.

[Marin]

Here are two additional videos from Robert Morning Sky. There are a total of 10 videos which I'd highly recommend watching. To keep it simple, I've added two more that pertain directly to this thread. Only 5 minutes each.

In these two videos he discusses the role of the SHETU - lizards (The Grays), the "tunnel of white light" and how we've been re-programmed, lied to and deceived.

IcH62LGSHdg

and

QtpDxStBOMo

[Roisin]

I mentioned before that I will ask my 'contacts' about the white light.

So today, I did an EVP session and got a couple of answers on that right away. Below is that EVP recording that I play 3x's in the video that I uploaded to You Tube. (Note: I actually said "should I go... not "do I go.... )

At the beginning of this recording I'm asking: "When I die, should I go into the white light?

The EVP answer for that question is: "The light is an entrance to heaven".

The entire clip is played 3x's in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Psq2LtsVy0&feature=youtu.be

The second answer I got for that question that's not included in the video above was: "The light connects to the light in your heart".

[Shezbeth]

Great posts with an excellent accomodation of multiple possibilities. Just a few comments.


Then you're drawn towards a tunnel of light with a force that seems hard to resist. As a matter of fact, few have any wish to resist it, either, because they feel so good.

I am told that heroine is quite gratifying as well. Not to say that the white light is comparable to heroine, but 'feeling so good' doesn't mean it IS good.


what he said was something I needed to investigate

Absolutely the underlying principle of this thread. None of the suggestions, testimonies, convictions, and 'truths', are the end-all-be-all. Everything should be grounds for further inquiry and evaluation.


"When I die, should I go into the white light?" [...] "The light is an entrance to heaven".

I notice that is not a yes or no. I further recognize that insomuch as 'ignorance is bliss', heaven - given this unspecific quote - could be something undesirable.

[Anchor]

The only trap you need to worry about is fear.

This question itself is born of fear and a lack of faith in your eternal nature, your innate power and your connection/connectedness with the creation and the creator and therefore all things - including those who you fear or believe may be trying to trap you!

In your life, including the final process of moving out of incarnation in death, if you really want to know if something should be done or not, or some pathway or direction should be followed or not, take some moments in silence to consult the compass that is your heart; the storehouse of all wisdom. It never hurts to ask for guidance and protection either.

The more practice you have in having this inner conversation, the less fear you will experience because you will KNOW.

Personally speaking - and I know this is kind of opinionated - I'd say people worrying about "white light" when you die might first want to consult that compass on the matter of priorities.

[Aquarius Rising]

The human brain is still somewhat of a mystery, even to neurologists. Death? I once visited for a moment, and there was no bright light. Only darkness/nothingness, no gravity, and the odd realization that I did not have to breathe in and out any longer. It was not painful, nor was it glorious, luminous, and beautiful. Maybe I did not stay long enough...who knows. I do not think it matters now because it was many years ago, and my effort to find out more failed thanks to a remarkable ER staff.

Perhaps fear is the only 'real' trap.

Even if THIS is all there is, and nothing really makes sense or can be proven. Even if we can only assume and speculate, one thing is for sure: life can be beautiful if we choose not to live it under a veil of fear. All unanswered questions will be revealed in due time. Until then, I say: Live life to the fullest while it is still possible to do so. To squander that opportunity---to hand it over to the fear of an evil force that abducts/enslaves/controls souls shortly following death---that could be a potentially devastating mistake (in my opinion). This comes from one who has had to face some fairly heavy uninvited experiences which have yet to conquer me. Why hide in a dark attic while the sun in the sky is still shining brightly...while there is still time to feel the warmth of another's embrace. Maybe the last part of what I have written here (the last sentence) is really all I should have said.

[Marin]

The only trap you need to worry about is fear.

Yes, fear is most definitely a trap. A big piece. One of the shamans I've worked with shared how important it is to embrace your fears during this transition. Young children (at the age of 5) are prepared for this. They are taught not to be afraid of death. To embrace death. Death is the "birth" of our soul. We must maintain harmony in our thoughts during this transition. And that takes preparation.


.... if you really want to know if something should be done or not, or some pathway or direction should be followed or not, take some moments in silence to consult the compass that is your heart; the storehouse of all wisdom. It never hurts to ask for guidance and protection either.

Again, yes. Connecting with our own heart is an important piece. I try not to make decisions without it. My internal guide. I listen to it - carefully. So when my heart says - hmmm this is something I need to investigate. I do. Ideally, with an open heart and mind. Trying not to pass judgments. Often, that's the most challenging bit.

Given all the levels of manipulation that occur here, in this dimension, in this reality - is it that hard to imagine that it may extend beyond this transition?

Sifting through all of it is no easy task. It's a challenge. What I've learned is that I need to listen to my own intuition. That voice that is uniquely mine. Not someone else's. To do that takes effort. For some it's a spiritual practice, for others it's collecting and researching topics - gathering information and sharing ideas. However, from my perspective, without these efforts, my internal voice - that wisdom that lies within - isn't as easy to access.

I appreciate that some may have a hard time understanding that the "tunnel" is a trap. That we've been re-programmed. I get it. They may be right. However, for some of us, that may be a possibility. There is no way of knowing. There are infinite possibilities. In the end, maybe the best decision is uniquely our own.

From my perspective, this isn't a question of fear - it's about gathering information and seeking the truth. Putting ourselves in a place where we can access that wisdom in our heart. That knowing. I find that empowering.

[Joe Akulis]

So, let's sum up a few of the things being learned by the people on this thread.

We are all different, and we all come from different places, and we all have a different level of experience in this school, and we all have a different level of experience with the summer vacations in between each school year. If you spend time going through the different reading material that has been suggested in this thread, it should be a little easier to see--I hope--that a person's ability to navigate the afterlife probably depends on how much experience they have there.

For people who are troubled about it because we simply don't know what to expect, if you are so inclined to investigate, I think you would be greatly rewarded by researching the subject of reincarnation, and studying accounts of other people's NDEs--LOTS of accounts! It doesn't work if you just read like the 5 NDEs that have been approved by the Church of Latter Day Saints and none of the rest.

Some people understand that they are looking down at the body they just left and then notice the spirits of some loved ones nearby, ready to welcome them and comfort them. Suggestion: Don't let this cause you to suspend your curiosity! The universe has so much to offer in terms of experiences, you may close yourself off to something greater and more rewarding if you just accept the afterlife you are presented with. Ask dead people questions! :-) Don't be afraid to explore. Reject boredom!

Some people get killed in accidents and don't even realize they died. These can sometimes require a concerted effort from others to help them make the realization and to raise them to a level of consciousness where they can recover from the trauma. Suggestion: Know that there are ALWAYS higher beings ready to lend you a hand, who have your greater good at heart. They can be there to help you at the speed of thought.

Some people land in the void right off the bat. And depending on their fears/beliefs/experience, that can go very badly or be quite amazingly awesome. Or just plain peaceful. Suggestion: The void responds to you. And what you find there is whatever YOU bring. Whatever you have inside you. The recommendations from others about connecting with your heart center while you are still alive, here, now, is the best advice you can get. Let the power of love plow though the fear. Be the light, don't look for it.


Other avenues that you can pursue if you seek greater comfort about your afterlife prospects:

Research meditation, and the various techniques. You may find that you can learn all about the afterlife before you actually leave this life.

Research lucid dreaming, and astral travel/out of body experiences. You may find out that you can learn all about the afterlife before you actually leave this life.

Look into the prospect of visiting an accredited regression hypnotherapist. The experience of listening to yourself describing things that you did on your last couple summer vacations in between lives may be helpful.

Look into the techniques for clearing negative enegry blockages from your past. Bill Ryan's thread on L. Ron Hubbard's techniques was very helpful, and very similar to what Inelia Benz recommends. If you want to learn more about your past, and remember more fully who and what you are, you need to understand that dealing with your past is often necessary before you can move forward.

One thing you probably don't want to do, if you are concerned about what happens, is just sit around worrying about it. Clean off your glasses, fire up your web browser, and keep seeking. Give your ego a break and say to yourself, "Okay, maybe there is more to the world than what I currently believe." This was the most difficult part for me. Opening up to greater possible truths is scary enough all by itself...

Much love to all viewing this thread.

[Kalamos]

..........

[Joe Akulis]

Roisin, awesome! Thank you!

Next week's question: Did they have to go through life reviews?

Seeker

P.S., can you tell if any of these questions appears to be annoying anyone that you're communicating with? I don't want to push anything and adversely affect what you have there.

[Joe Akulis]

Here's some more tunnel stories over at IANDS for everyone to chew on and contemplate.

"... each of these experiences has many of the common elements—a feeling of peace, a sense of separation from the physical body, traveling through a tunnel or dark space, being in a heavenly realm, meeting deceased relatives or spiritual beings, seeing a loving being of immense light, having a life review, visiting a place where all knowledge exists, having a choice or being told one needs to go back, and returning to the physical body."
http://iands.org/news/news/front-page-news/992-what-near-death-experiences-tell-us.html

"The doctor told his entourage of med students I would not make it to morning. Sometime during that night, I travelled through a tunnel towards a brilliant white light. Through this light came my seven-year-old sister, who had died in the snowstorm two years previously. She was excited to see me and was skipping towards me, laughing, and picking flowers to bring to me."
http://iands.org/experiences/nde-accounts/976-my-mother-and-sister-picked-flowers-for-me.html

Lotta good stuff in this one:
"Immediately, as these realizations became crystal clear to me, this place - Hell - began to fade away. My father appeared, with his father at his side. My father took my hand and guided me toward a tunnel - at the end of the tunnel was glowing white light. As I moved through the tunnel, it was as if time and space disappeared. Strangely, as if I had simultaneously been in a parallel abode, my awareness was instantaneously in a different place."
http://iands.org/experiences/nde-accounts/960-christmas-2010.html

"I could see a tunnel down the far end of the volume and decided to explore, so I went floating off down the tunnel. This huge steel gate suddenly slammed down in front of me (it had rivets and straps and the intention of making the point "make no mistake matey, this is a big steel gate. Get lost.""
http://iands.org/experiences/nde-accounts/973-emergency-at-37.html

"I was then shuttled through a tunnel of rainbow lights at a speed which cannot be described, for a period of time which I cannot estimate. I emerged at the entrance of a beautiful garden, at the center of which was a hall of open pillars, featuring a calm blue sky, with white clouds."
http://iands.org/experiences/nde-accounts/966-two-drownings-in-childhood.html

"It did not seem real, like tunnels getting darker on the sides to a light. At the end, I came to a room so bright you needed sunglasses on regular day. It reminded me of a huge conference room with all my deceased relatives and friends surrounding it. At the head of the conference table was my step-dad L, had who passed in 1988."
http://iands.org/experiences/nde-accounts/949-im-different-now.html

"The next thing I knew was I was in a tunnel with bright light. Shadow figures were all coming towards me: lots of them but nobody i recognized."
http://iands.org/nde-stories/nde-like-accounts/946-my-son-is-okay.html

"I remember seeing the sun from under the water and feeling an incredible sense of panic, which, within seconds, was replaced with an unlimited amount of peace and serenity. I then found myself in a very narrow tunnel of an incredibly bright white light."
http://iands.org/experiences/nde-accounts/894--unlimited-peace-and-serenity.html

Here's a good one. Kind of gets you to think about consciousness in the opposite direction, like what it takes to cram your true self down into something here on Earth where the energy level and the awareness is so much less.
"... Then, down at the "end" of the tunnel I was moving through, I saw a tiny, tiny, itty-bitty little tiny peeking pinhole of physical, earthly light, which is a very distinct kind of light than what I had just been exposed to. It is almost like the distinction between fluorescent light and sunlight, except the difference should be multiplied by orders of orders of magnitude. I was moving toward this little pinhole extremely fast, and at the same time I was getting squeezed and pushed and crammed through this tunnel toward it."
http://iands.org/experiences/nde-accounts/886-love-everything-that-exists.html

Another one where they describe the walls of their tunnel as 'smoke-like'.
"... I was watching from above the bathroom door which was in the direction of the foot of the bed. I then became aware of an all-encompassing darkness. A few moments later a burst of light surrounded me and I felt unconditional love. All pain and paralyzing fear disappeared. The next vision I saw was like a tunnel with a light at the other end. The walls of the tunnel weren't like walls, but smoke-like."
http://iands.org/experiences/nde-accounts/838-a-burst-of-light-amid-violence.html

"I chose to go back to my body, but part way back in I changed my mind and returned to the area above my bed. This time I saw a tunnel leading to the clarity. I don't remember seeing it the first time. Somehow I knew that if I chose to go through the tunnel I would die, but, strangely, it didn't seem to matter to me."
http://iands.org/experiences/nde-accounts/706-life-death.html

[Marin]

Here are a few pieces from Wes Penre's website that might speak to some of the topics discussed earlier.
http://wespenre.com/there-is-a-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel.htm

"I have no solid proof to present about the Grays being the invader force, implanting us and keeping us ignorant between lives, in spite of what other researchers have claimed. The only solid evidence I have is what Dr. Newton has given us through his research.

We may, and should, speculate if there is more to it, and here are some questions we need to have answered:

1. Although most people's experiences from the afterlife are pleasant, is there a force controlling time/space? If so, is that force benevolent or malevolent? Is the positive experiences just a way to keep us attached to a Matrix system which is controlled by alien beings with a not-so-benevolent agenda?

2. Some sources, like the Pleiadians, say that we go wherever our beliefs take us after we die. If we believe we go to Hell, something corresponding to our belief system is going to manifest. If we believe in Heaven, we will experience something similar to that. Therefore, it's very important to decide where we want to go, and what to experience. This makes sense on some level, although it looks like almost all of Dr. Newton's subjects go to the same, or a similar place...

3. Quite a few of Dr. Newton's subjects describe time/space as being curved, which indicates that it's a sphere, and therefore finite. What exactly is this sphere?"

******

For those of you not familiar with Dr. Newton's material:

"Dr. Newton wrote "Journey of Souls" and "Destiny of Souls." He is a therapist and hypnotist, whose original purpose was to relieve people from stress and depression with the help of regression therapy, or hypnotism. After a while, he noticed that some clients started going back to previous lives and even into the between-lives area, where souls go after they depart from the body after body death.

Dr. Newton hypnotized more than 7,000 people, whom he has taken back to previous lives and especially, the between-lives area. To his amazement, all these subjects were telling the exact same story, only with their subjective personal experiences differing from each other. Other than that, the stories were absolutely coherent. After a while, Dr. Newton was able to see a pattern and draw conclusion from that, which built very strong evidence. 7,000 people don't lie, and in particular, they don't tell the same story independently from each other."

******

"A year ago or so, I was finding a lot of conflicting data regarding the spirit world and what happens to us after our physical bodies die. There was a very disturbing side of it, too, and I decided to do my best to sort this out.

Although Dr. Newton's research is pretty solid, and this is what his subjects have experienced, are there others who have experienced something darker?

On September 23, 2010, I wrote an article called, "The Afterlife Programming." In that article, I argued that we are stuck in a 3rd dimensional/density prison and the astral plane (time/space) is a part of it. I concluded that the spirit world is just a rest area for the soul, fully loaded with holograms, implants and computer screens which create a reality for us that is perceived as pleasant and beautiful. I said that this pleasant environment is created to deceive us; to make us believe that the 3rd dimension is not a prison, but a place to evolve.

I also asked the rhetoric question, who are the Council of Elders? Could it be that they are part of a much larger control system, and they are just the ones making sure that business goes on as usual in the astral world and to make certain that no one "escapes"? Are we then implanted with false memories, amnesia implants and shot down into a human body again?

These are very dark and depressing assumptions, indeed, and if I made this up from out-of-the-blue, I would be very concerned about my mental health. But no, there are actually those who suggest that the above is true and what is truly happening when we die.

I am going to tell the reader my sources and describe briefly what they are telling us, and afterwards we are going to discuss their credibility."

I'll put that together in another post. Wes's first source is James from the Wingmakers Theory, David Icke's Moon Matrix, L. Ron Hubbard and the Afterlife Implant Stations, Robert Morning-Sky and the Terra Papers, Edgar Cayce and other people's experiences in the Spirit World.

[AxisMundi]

I've encountered this idea alot recently regarding the white light being a trap and I think there was a thread about it on the David Icke forum. It's a frightening prospect but I don't at all buy it. These are simply some of my own thoughts on the issue and so take them as you will as much of this topic is clearly beyond the realm of potential 'proof'.

If we look at nature from the smallest particle to the out most reaches of the cosmos as well as consider the inner world of emotions and our internal experiences we see that ALL of this is founded upon a system of polarities ie an interdependent relationship of duality. These dualities reflect and indeed complement each other, neither's existence having any meaning or reality without the other. Whether it be light and dark, good and evil, service to self and service to others, we see that the Universe is constantly seeking balance and indeed it seems that the cosmos needs such dualistic forces for it to exist in its present form.

To me, the idea that we may simply be the victims of a system where we are recycled around and around by arch evil deceptive entities would have to necessitate that the forces of deception and service to self are far greater and more powerful than their opposites and indeed completely out of balance. Whilst I'll acknowledge that there may well be regions of space-time where such imbalance exists (for instance this 3D planet currently) instinctively, this entire philosophy smacks of one to instill fear into the core of the soul and more importantly rests on the idea that deception, control and service to self are potentially infinite. It negates the very existence of the balance of forces which we see everywhere, struggling together as they do to topple one another.

Talking purely from a subjective standpoint here I'm confident that the Universe (what some may call 'God') has a kind of self regulating mechanism on all levels of existence whereby if either force becomes disproportionately out of synch with the other there is a snap back effect which brings everything into line. This may sound simplistic but I'd say here that this does not occur without conscious effort and great struggle on the part of the polarity which has become suppressed and oppressed. ie something is triggered within the suppressed polarity which enables it to utilize all its latent abilities (involving conscious struggle) to bring balance to the equation. My feeling is that this is exactly what we're witnessing on the planet at the moment as clearly the service to self forces have been far out of balance throughout known human history. I believe this process is intimately tied in with the process of 'ascension' though I'll come back to that later.

Having said all this I've recently been re-reading a very interesting book by a Russian Psychiatrist, Olga Kharitidi called 'Master of Lucid Dreams'. The author is somewhat of an enigma as she wrote two fantastic books (essentially fiction though she claims these were written based on real events which deal with the subjects of Shamanic initiation and ancient knowledge in and around Siberia/Mongolia/Uzbekistan) and then disappeared into obscurity. Anyway, there's an amazing 10 page excerpt in this book which deals with what happens immediately after death. Part of it is replicated here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?38458-Dreamtime-Healing-Using-Holographic-Kinetics&p=717509&viewfull=1#post717509). It's partially Jungian in flavor though I believe it goes much further than his ideas.

In essence, the passage concerns the nature of trauma and how unacknowledged or un-integrated parts of our psyche which have been traumatized can evolve and 'metastasize' to take on a life of their own as energetic thought forms seeking their own expression. In the moments after death we enter 'time itself' which of course is perceived completely differently to our experience of it in our 3D material existence. There we are faced with these monstrous thought forms which can confuse, torment and torture us. Importantly, it's stated that these are not external entities which are harvesting us but rather our own 'spirits of trauma' which become grossly magnified in this space between life and death. Thus, this torment can only occur if we do not recognize their origins as being our own thought manifestations and in essence our own traumatic spirits; having the ability to correctly identify them and 'look them in the face' allows us to pass through this potentially hazardous realm of 'facing the darkness of the soul'.

Whilst I haven't read the Tibetan Book of the Dead, apparently it is very similar to the Tibetan concept of Bardo. The part which made sense to me in this passage is that it states that perhaps THE most important mission in life is preparing for death. Again, in the Jungian sense, one of our personal spiritual missions here is the task of identifying, accepting and integrating our shadow selves, the darkest parts of our psyche so that we may pass uninterrupted after death into what we could call the contemplation zone that we read about in Michael Newton's work.

Now, coming back to the idea of ascension that so many in this day and age speak about, I was having some thoughts. It's occurred to me that the real light workers on this planet at the moment are not infact the New Age fluffy types who are filling everyone with love and light but rather individuals and groups who are fighting tooth and nail to expose all the darkness, corruption and deception on the planet both in the Geo political and spiritual sense. It's my strong belief that the Universe does operate like a series of infinite mirrors (as above, so below) and at the present time mankind in its entirety could be seen to be in a kind of collective 'bardo' state and has been for some time. It's bloody painful and horrible here at times, that much I know!

Anyway, as I recall, the Ra material states that humanity does consist at the higher levels as one 'social memory complex' and Just as in the intermediate state between death and the 'heavenly' contemplation zone, those who have taken the painful responsibility of looking hard and cold at the terrible archontic energies on this planet are perhaps paving a way for our collective ascension to this other dimension or density (whatever it may be) once all the 'dirt' of humanities collective psyche has been observed and processed. The actual mechanics of this I'm uncertain about. Of course at the quantum level the very act of observing something changes what it is one's looking at and whilst this is simplistic as an explanation, I suspect something akin to this is occurring on the macro level. Some days I really sense that there are serious metaphysical changes happening beyond the realm of the visible. I guess the key here is that ascension is not a given but that it takes as many individuals as possible to observe and energetically process all this dirt and trauma which has occurred here on earth in order that the 'social memory complex' that is humanity can move on to further heal its wounds in a higher realm. Whilst many on the planet are deemed to be asleep and have unwittingly aligned themselves with the illusion and perceived 'normality' of these archontic energies, I believe the other individuals and groups who are doing all the groundwork and processing are ones who have particularly 'heavy' consciousness and who are capable of energetically absorbing and transmuting this darkness.

Blimey, just realized I started off on one subject and ended talking about another one entirely. Anyway, it's all inter-related I think. Hope I haven't gone off on too much of a tangent and managed to convey my often convoluted thoughts (which may be simply stating the obvious) and haven't gone off topic too much!

[waves]

I've encountered this idea alot recently regarding the white light being a trap and I think there was a thread about it on the David Icke forum. It's a frightening prospect but I don't at all buy it. These are simply some of my own thoughts on the issue and so take them as you will as much of this topic is clearly beyond the realm of potential 'proof'.

If we look at nature from the smallest particle to the out most reaches of the cosmos as well as consider the inner world of emotions and our internal experiences we see that ALL of this is founded upon a system of polarities ie an interdependent relationship of duality. These dualities reflect and indeed complement each other, neither's existence having any meaning or reality without the other. Whether it be light and dark, good and evil, service to self and service to others, we see that the Universe is constantly seeking balance and indeed it seems that the cosmos needs such dualistic forces for it to exist in its present form.

To me, the idea that we may simply be the victims of a system where we are recycled around and around by arch evil deceptive entities would have to necessitate that the forces of deception and service to self are far greater and more powerful than their opposites and indeed completely out of balance. Whilst I'll acknowledge that there may well be regions of space-time where such imbalance exists (for instance this 3D planet currently) instinctively, this entire philosophy smacks of one to instill fear into the core of the soul and more importantly rests on the idea that deception, control and service to self are potentially infinite. It negates the very existence of the balance of forces which we see everywhere, struggling together as they do to topple one another.

Talking purely from a subjective standpoint here I'm confident that the Universe (what some may call 'God') has a kind of self regulating mechanism on all levels of existence whereby if either force becomes disproportionately out of synch with the other there is a snap back effect which brings everything into line. This may sound simplistic but I'd say here that this does not occur without conscious effort and great struggle on the part of the polarity which has become suppressed and oppressed. ie something is triggered within the suppressed polarity which enables it to utilize all its latent abilities (involving conscious struggle) to bring balance to the equation. My feeling is that this is exactly what we're witnessing on the planet at the moment as clearly the service to self forces have been far out of balance throughout known human history. I believe this process is intimately tied in with the process of 'ascension' though I'll come back to that later.

Having said all this I've recently been re-reading a very interesting book by a Russian Psychiatrist, Olga Kharitidi called 'Master of Lucid Dreams'. The author is somewhat of an enigma as she wrote two fantastic books (essentially fiction though she claims these were written based on real events which deal with the subjects of Shamanic initiation and ancient knowledge in and around Siberia/Mongolia/Uzbekistan) and then disappeared into obscurity. Anyway, there's an amazing 10 page excerpt in this book which deals with what happens immediately after death. Part of it is replicated here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?38458-Dreamtime-Healing-Using-Holographic-Kinetics&p=717509&viewfull=1#post717509). It's partially Jungian in flavor though I believe it goes much further than his ideas.

In essence, the passage concerns the nature of trauma and how unacknowledged or un-integrated parts of our psyche which have been traumatized can evolve and 'metastasize' to take on a life of their own as energetic thought forms seeking their own expression. In the moments after death we enter 'time itself' which of course is perceived completely differently to our experience of it in our 3D material existence. There we are faced with these monstrous thought forms which can confuse, torment and torture us. Importantly, it's stated that these are not external entities which are harvesting us but rather our own 'spirits of trauma' which become grossly magnified in this space between life and death. Thus, this torment can only occur if we do not recognize their origins as being our own thought manifestations and in essence our own traumatic spirits; having the ability to correctly identify them and 'look them in the face' allows us to pass through this potentially hazardous realm of 'facing the darkness of the soul'.

Whilst I haven't read the Tibetan Book of the Dead, apparently it is very similar to the Tibetan concept of Bardo. The part which made sense to me in this passage is that it states that perhaps THE most important mission in life is preparing for death. Again, in the Jungian sense, one of our personal spiritual missions here is the task of identifying, accepting and integrating our shadow selves, the darkest parts of our psyche so that we may pass uninterrupted after death into what we could call the contemplation zone that we read about in Michael Newton's work.

Now, coming back to the idea of ascension that so many in this day and age speak about, I was having some thoughts. It's occurred to me that the real light workers on this planet at the moment are not infact the New Age fluffy types who are filling everyone with love and light but rather individuals and groups who are fighting tooth and nail to expose all the darkness, corruption and deception on the planet both in the Geo political and spiritual sense. It's my strong belief that the Universe does operate like a series of infinite mirrors (as above, so below) and at the present time mankind in its entirety could be seen to be in a kind of collective 'bardo' state and has been for some time. It's bloody painful and horrible here at times, that much I know!

Anyway, as I recall, the Ra material states that humanity does consist at the higher levels as one 'social memory complex' and Just as in the intermediate state between death and the 'heavenly' contemplation zone, those who have taken the painful responsibility of looking hard and cold at the terrible archontic energies on this planet are perhaps paving a way for our collective ascension to this other dimension or density (whatever it may be) once all the 'dirt' of humanities collective psyche has been observed and processed. The actual mechanics of this I'm uncertain about. Of course at the quantum level the very act of observing something changes what it is one's looking at and whilst this is simplistic as an explanation, I suspect something akin to this is occurring on the macro level. Some days I really sense that there are serious metaphysical changes happening beyond the realm of the visible. I guess the key here is that ascension is not a given but that it takes as many individuals as possible to observe and energetically process all this dirt and trauma which has occurred here on earth in order that the 'social memory complex' that is humanity can move on to further heal its wounds in a higher realm. Whilst many on the planet are deemed to be asleep and have unwittingly aligned themselves with the illusion and perceived 'normality' of these archontic energies, I believe the other individuals and groups who are doing all the groundwork and processing are ones who have particularly 'heavy' consciousness and who are capable of energetically absorbing and transmuting this darkness.

Blimey, just realized I started off on one subject and ended talking about another one entirely. Anyway, it's all inter-related I think. Hope I haven't gone off on too much of a tangent and managed to convey my often convoluted thoughts (which may be simply stating the obvious) and haven't gone off topic too much!


WOW. This essay is utterly brilliant. You have woven a cause and effect interrelation between all the seeming discordant biggest questions in humanity including the all primary, seemingly discordant and conflicting premises of both spiritual and quantum theory, plus the parts that gut-resonate as absolutely true with many people but left everyone in a state of existential dizzyness because the parts from both sides didn't seem to fit together.

You have articulated my new gigantic premise of everything. I'm having big internal fireworks of relief. I am still sure there's huge amounts more that I am limited in my human ability to contain/perceive about the bigggg picture - but there really isn't a need to know it or a need to suffer wondering if I need to know. This is really all that is necessary to know to make the best use of this lifetime and worrying about it anymore is wasting time better spent doing the work.

The lightworkers are the ones shining the light of observation to effect change. Yes yes yes.

Also, I wonder if maybe another way to say one of the at death issues we're discussing is that your own traumas/bursts of fear energies also birth your own archons whom you meet at death and are prone to misinterpret. And once again, recognition and/or observation will dissipate.

THANK YOU.

(I usually edit quotes, but I can't this time. The entirety deserves repeating intact.)

[Kalamos]

..........

[AxisMundi]

Thanks to both of you for your replies. Waves, I think you're right regarding the birthing of our 'own archons'. I guess this is tied in with the abused becoming the abuser. ie creating negative thought forms which are related energy wise to the one's who have caused us most harm and trouble in the first place. The one thing that I got from reading the 10 page passage in 'Master of Lucid Dreams' was that these things can't be repressed or suppressed. In the simple Jungian sense (when he he speaks of the dark part of our psyche, the shadow) these things MUST be witnessed and confronted in order that they be assimilated under the power of light. Whilst this is both deeply frightening and uncomfortable, once done, such energies loose their power and hold over us. Again, this works on both the personal level of our own trauma and wounding and also on the planetary level where there are real archons running the show! (or so I believe).


A thought. And it's simple. THE GOAL for the individual seeker after a better world is create a better 'you', since the 'you' is one part of the 'WE', the complex.

The more pieces (us) that are in balance (and it's not that hard to be good and do the right thing, really. that's it) the sooner the 'whole (WE Humanity as a complex/collective) will be BALANCED and maybe graduate to some awesome awesome level (you know, all those lovely places seers have been talking about ages).............As messed up as things seem, it IS Evolution. Though there are UPS and DOWNS, swings and centers, THERE IS A PROCESS, I think! God, I hope!

Yes, I think evolution IS occurring though it's a precarious process. Whilst everything in the material sense appears to be falling apart and in chaos this is really just a collective affirmation to God/source/Universe on the part of the 'lightworkers' which says that this darkness cannot exist anymore and must crumble. In a sense it's simple and sincerely is about being the change you want to see in the world though the complex part is that this takes a whole lot of persistence and self dedication. I think we really are at a stage now where every action and thought counts immensely, more than we can imagine and certainly more than we can 'see'. I guess what we should really be doing in our every day lives is imagining that we're telling a story to the Universe (which I believe we are) and that it sees, hears and understands energetically what we're communicating to it. As Maximus says at the beginning of Gladiator 'What we do here in life, echoes in eternity' ( I love that line :p )

[161803398]

Many years ago I filled out a questionnaire about near death experiences. One of the questions was how was my health afterwards. I thought maybe my near death experience wasn't real because I imagined one should feel wonderful after having one. I, on the other hand, told them I was sick with allergies for a couple of years. Well, surprise, surprise! After I filled it out I they provided some answers and it turned out that one of the most common after effects of the near death experience is allergies...probably from exposure to that light. Dk what the means really.

[OnyxKnight]

It is.

Those who gave you a different answer have no NDE experience. If they did, they would have followed their belief, went into the light, and wouldn't be here talking about it. Its as simple as that.

I'm sorry if this sounds arrogant or cocky for anyone.

[Anchor]

It is.

Those who gave you a different answer have no NDE experience. If they did, they would have followed their belief, went into the light, and wouldn't be here talking about it. Its as simple as that.

I'm sorry if this sounds arrogant or cocky for anyone.

Epic opinion post, but not very informative. Needs work!

[OnyxKnight]

Epic opinion post, but not very informative. Needs work!


I've talked about it numerous times. After a while I feel like I'm just quoting myself. So I thought I make it short this time.

Thanks for the 'epic' remark.

[Hervé]

... oh well...may be after Nth repeats something will sink in?


[...]

You talk about drama. Well, don't be amazed at anything your preclear comes up with... and you'll find out that there are various peoples as part of Invader Force One [60 trillions years ago = old timers]. Have been on the track for an awful long time. The reason you say invader force at all is because at some time along the line, fairly early in its youth, it took off to conquer the whole MEST universe: gobble, glop. And you succeeded, of course, until Invader Force II came along and you got rickety. And by that time you'd probably evolved into this and that or changed into thought people or taken up religion or gone into monasteries or something of the sort because of overt acts. You became a thought people. And all of a sudden, out of nowhere - and without any provocation from you... of course! - Invader Force II suddenly showed up, gunned you down, manhandled you, kicked you over, put you into bodies, made slaves out of you who had been emperors and kings, and Invader Force [?] which you represent.

Then you, as a thought person, suddenly made into a slave, would cruise along for a while and one day you'd be sitting in this society and somebody would get this wonderful idea that this is the way you ought to put electronics together so they go "boom!" or so they fly out the tail end of a jet or so that they form up antigravity repulsers or something - somebody gets a big idea about electronics, and there you go. And you're out and way out in space and zingity-bang and over to the next planet, or the next continent even. And you gun them down and you set up the same sort of situations out of desperation, because the second you start to run into a thought people who don't have any MEST bodies, you say: "this is very unhandy” and you make sure they have MEST bodies right soon. [dramatization (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?50868-David-Icke-Has-Been-Talking-About-Jimmy-Savile-For-Years&p=577920&viewfull=1#post577920) of earlier incident on the track].

So, you've been in and out of bodies. You've been thought people, you've been this, you've been that. You've been sheep, goats, spaceness, space officers; you've been governors, kings, princes, ditch diggers, slaves, glaziers, carpenters, bricklayers, amusement park barkers, operators. You have turned planets into parks and parks into cinders. You, at one time or another on the track, have had weapons in your hands of sufficient magnitude to just say: "Boom!" and the whole planet goes. And sometimes you didn't care whether you used it or not. Interesting.

Now if they're an experienced invader force, they've got it all rigged. It'll run off by rote. They'll pick up these people one by one and they'll say: "Well, you've got to come over here and register. And of course the fellow walks over, registers. A light flashes, the guy's past life, everything about him, goes out; he remembers no more. Sometimes this fellow turns around and walks back to his own group and says: "Nothing happened." and the next guy and the next guy.

Or they'll come in and they'll sell all the aristocracy in the area the idea that "This is the way you can really control these people. Now, we are going to put weapons of control in your hands. Now, just step right up, sign here. Next one!" They get the aristocracy under control and control the people from there. In other words, control has been the main thing. How do you control territory? The way you control territory is control people.

Well, now, as far as reality of this stuff is concerned, it has not generally been accepted here on Earth that such things existed. But I noticed that we have what's known as science fiction here on Earth. And, noticing it many, many years ago, I thought "This is good gag", so I wrote lots of it. You wouldn't dare write real science fiction - not real science fiction. Nobody's guts could take it, that's all there is to that.

If you want to know something about cold blooded brutality and why people here on Earth are so completely, horribly fixated on "let's be kind", and "Let's get it organized one way or the other", it is the utter, brutal disregard for beingness which you find throughout the systems. What you have here and consider humanitarian and so forth is a very interestingly built-up system. There's a caste system which is exercised in other parts of the solar system which would appal the most viciously minded duke [Sade, marquis de] who ever lived on Earth. There's slavery, and what men are put to in that slavery... how men are treated and so forth.

[...]

[mahalall]

Moving on from the corpse of nidra and continuing to breakdown the bodies structures (satipatthana) one enters the light of dissolution-letting go of the attachment and enter the plains beyond.
ECHTeomnyxk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga-nidra

[Carmody]

I've encountered this idea alot recently regarding the white light being a trap and I think there was a thread about it on the David Icke forum. It's a frightening prospect but I don't at all buy it. These are simply some of my own thoughts on the issue and so take them as you will as much of this topic is clearly beyond the realm of potential 'proof'.

If we look at nature from the smallest particle to the out most reaches of the cosmos as well as consider the inner world of emotions and our internal experiences we see that ALL of this is founded upon a system of polarities ie an interdependent relationship of duality. These dualities reflect and indeed complement each other, neither's existence having any meaning or reality without the other. Whether it be light and dark, good and evil, service to self and service to others, we see that the Universe is constantly seeking balance and indeed it seems that the cosmos needs such dualistic forces for it to exist in its present form.

To me, the idea that we may simply be the victims of a system where we are recycled around and around by arch evil deceptive entities would have to necessitate that the forces of deception and service to self are far greater and more powerful than their opposites and indeed completely out of balance. Whilst I'll acknowledge that there may well be regions of space-time where such imbalance exists (for instance this 3D planet currently) instinctively, this entire philosophy smacks of one to instill fear into the core of the soul and more importantly rests on the idea that deception, control and service to self are potentially infinite. It negates the very existence of the balance of forces which we see everywhere, struggling together as they do to topple one another.

Talking purely from a subjective standpoint here I'm confident that the Universe (what some may call 'God') has a kind of self regulating mechanism on all levels of existence whereby if either force becomes disproportionately out of synch with the other there is a snap back effect which brings everything into line. This may sound simplistic but I'd say here that this does not occur without conscious effort and great struggle on the part of the polarity which has become suppressed and oppressed. ie something is triggered within the suppressed polarity which enables it to utilize all its latent abilities (involving conscious struggle) to bring balance to the equation. My feeling is that this is exactly what we're witnessing on the planet at the moment as clearly the service to self forces have been far out of balance throughout known human history. I believe this process is intimately tied in with the process of 'ascension' though I'll come back to that later.

Having said all this I've recently been re-reading a very interesting book by a Russian Psychiatrist, Olga Kharitidi called 'Master of Lucid Dreams'. The author is somewhat of an enigma as she wrote two fantastic books (essentially fiction though she claims these were written based on real events which deal with the subjects of Shamanic initiation and ancient knowledge in and around Siberia/Mongolia/Uzbekistan) and then disappeared into obscurity. Anyway, there's an amazing 10 page excerpt in this book which deals with what happens immediately after death. Part of it is replicated here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?38458-Dreamtime-Healing-Using-Holographic-Kinetics&p=717509&viewfull=1#post717509). It's partially Jungian in flavor though I believe it goes much further than his ideas.

In essence, the passage concerns the nature of trauma and how unacknowledged or un-integrated parts of our psyche which have been traumatized can evolve and 'metastasize' to take on a life of their own as energetic thought forms seeking their own expression. In the moments after death we enter 'time itself' which of course is perceived completely differently to our experience of it in our 3D material existence. There we are faced with these monstrous thought forms which can confuse, torment and torture us. Importantly, it's stated that these are not external entities which are harvesting us but rather our own 'spirits of trauma' which become grossly magnified in this space between life and death. Thus, this torment can only occur if we do not recognize their origins as being our own thought manifestations and in essence our own traumatic spirits; having the ability to correctly identify them and 'look them in the face' allows us to pass through this potentially hazardous realm of 'facing the darkness of the soul'.

Whilst I haven't read the Tibetan Book of the Dead, apparently it is very similar to the Tibetan concept of Bardo. The part which made sense to me in this passage is that it states that perhaps THE most important mission in life is preparing for death. Again, in the Jungian sense, one of our personal spiritual missions here is the task of identifying, accepting and integrating our shadow selves, the darkest parts of our psyche so that we may pass uninterrupted after death into what we could call the contemplation zone that we read about in Michael Newton's work.

Now, coming back to the idea of ascension that so many in this day and age speak about, I was having some thoughts. It's occurred to me that the real light workers on this planet at the moment are not infact the New Age fluffy types who are filling everyone with love and light but rather individuals and groups who are fighting tooth and nail to expose all the darkness, corruption and deception on the planet both in the Geo political and spiritual sense. It's my strong belief that the Universe does operate like a series of infinite mirrors (as above, so below) and at the present time mankind in its entirety could be seen to be in a kind of collective 'bardo' state and has been for some time. It's bloody painful and horrible here at times, that much I know!

Anyway, as I recall, the Ra material states that humanity does consist at the higher levels as one 'social memory complex' and Just as in the intermediate state between death and the 'heavenly' contemplation zone, those who have taken the painful responsibility of looking hard and cold at the terrible archontic energies on this planet are perhaps paving a way for our collective ascension to this other dimension or density (whatever it may be) once all the 'dirt' of humanities collective psyche has been observed and processed. The actual mechanics of this I'm uncertain about. Of course at the quantum level the very act of observing something changes what it is one's looking at and whilst this is simplistic as an explanation, I suspect something akin to this is occurring on the macro level. Some days I really sense that there are serious metaphysical changes happening beyond the realm of the visible. I guess the key here is that ascension is not a given but that it takes as many individuals as possible to observe and energetically process all this dirt and trauma which has occurred here on earth in order that the 'social memory complex' that is humanity can move on to further heal its wounds in a higher realm. Whilst many on the planet are deemed to be asleep and have unwittingly aligned themselves with the illusion and perceived 'normality' of these archontic energies, I believe the other individuals and groups who are doing all the groundwork and processing are ones who have particularly 'heavy' consciousness and who are capable of energetically absorbing and transmuting this darkness.

Blimey, just realized I started off on one subject and ended talking about another one entirely. Anyway, it's all inter-related I think. Hope I haven't gone off on too much of a tangent and managed to convey my often convoluted thoughts (which may be simply stating the obvious) and haven't gone off topic too much!


WOW. This essay is utterly brilliant. You have woven a cause and effect interrelation between all the seeming discordant biggest questions in humanity including the all primary, seemingly discordant and conflicting premises of both spiritual and quantum theory, plus the parts that gut-resonate as absolutely true with many people but left everyone in a state of existential dizzyness because the parts from both sides didn't seem to fit together.

You have articulated my new gigantic premise of everything. I'm having big internal fireworks of relief. I am still sure there's huge amounts more that I am limited in my human ability to contain/perceive about the bigggg picture - but there really isn't a need to know it or a need to suffer wondering if I need to know. This is really all that is necessary to know to make the best use of this lifetime and worrying about it anymore is wasting time better spent doing the work.

The lightworkers are the ones shining the light of observation to effect change. Yes yes yes.

Also, I wonder if maybe another way to say one of the at death issues we're discussing is that your own traumas/bursts of fear energies also birth your own archons whom you meet at death and are prone to misinterpret. And once again, recognition and/or observation will dissipate.

THANK YOU.

(I usually edit quotes, but I can't this time. The entirety deserves repeating intact.)


Then we come to the order of operations, within the concept if physical mind,and it's connection/expression of self and all the layers.

That we form reality based upon perception and emotion being the carrier and formation point of higher function. That our trauma originates in the unconscious.

thus, to process our trauma, in this 3d linear timespace, in the use of the human avatar...is to be able to order our subsequent 'spiritual, or 'dimensional' reality formation in a way that is fundamentally more functional.

That we learn hierarchy and function of holding a self together.... in a pure energy environment... by incarnating on earth.

Right now, our place of learning has become unbalanced, and it must be fixed.

[seleka]

I have not yet read the thread. This theory is supported by the information in the book "The Alien Interview". It is supposedly transcripts of an interview an employee did telepathically. She released the information to the author when she was nearing death. In it the planet is described as a prison, and the white light is a trap that erases our memories. I may be preaching to the choir, I am new here. Or perhaps there is a thread debunking that book here somewhere... This thought also would somewhat parallel the Christian belief in going to the light, you rejoin with god. When you rejoin with god, you lose the individuality and join the one, which could be thought of as losing your memory, or going into a trap (trapped without your individuality) I will read the thread now. http://www.openisbn.com/preview/0615204600/
After reading a few of the replies, I am grinning. I love this forum! You re-minded me of what I learned years ago reading Seth and CWG. We create our reality and that is true on this side of the veil and the other side. You only experience hell if you expect to... etc Peeling back the layers of reality takes diligence.

[Kalamos]

..........

[Becky]

I read this interesting bit (below) from one of the interviews, and wondered if one of the reasons we only send a fraction of our spirit or soul energy to earth is due to the fact that our memory gets 'wiped' as we come into or leave planet earth. Wouldn't we have to get this issue sorted before we integrate our whole higher selves into our bodies?

"Before 30,000 BCE —
Earth started being used a dumping ground and prison for IS-BEs who were judged "untouchable", meaning criminal or non-conformists. IS-BEs were captured, encapsulated in electronic traps and transported to Earth from various parts of the "Old Empire". Underground "amnesia stations" were set up on Mars and on Earth in the Rwenzori Mountains 134 (Footnote) in Africa, in the Pyrenees Mountains 135 (Footnote) of Portugal, and in steppes of Mongolia. 136 (Footnote)

These electronic monitoring points create force screens designed to detect and capture IS-BEs, when the IS-BE departs the body at death. IS-BEs are brainwashed using extreme electronic force in order to maintain Earth's population in state of perpetual amnesia. Further population controls are installed through the use of long range electronic thought control mechanisms. These stations are still in operation and they are extremely difficult to attack or destroy, even for The Domain, which will not maintain a significant military force in this area until a later date."

[Maunagarjana]

I have not yet read the thread. This theory is supported by the information in the book "The Alien Interview". It is supposedly transcripts of an interview an employee did telepathically. She released the information to the author when she was nearing death. In it the planet is described as a prison, and the white light is a trap that erases our memories. I may be preaching to the choir, I am new here. Or perhaps there is a thread debunking that book here somewhere... This thought also would somewhat parallel the Christian belief in going to the light, you rejoin with god. When you rejoin with god, you lose the individuality and join the one, which could be thought of as losing your memory, or going into a trap (trapped without your individuality) I will read the thread now. http://www.openisbn.com/preview/0615204600/
After reading a few of the replies, I am grinning. I love this forum! You re-minded me of what I learned years ago reading Seth and CWG. We create our reality and that is true on this side of the veil and the other side. You only experience hell if you expect to... etc Peeling back the layers of reality takes diligence.

About the "Alien Interview"....you might want to check this out before buying into it.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?6865-HOAX-Lawrence-Spencer-s-ALIEN-INTERVIEW

[Kalamos]

..........

[OnyxKnight]

If you find cyclical tabula rasa incarnation a bad thing, it should be a trap.

[Finefeather]

We are in a prison of sorts, but its a self-imposed one. We are super-powerful beings, of that I have no doubt. And because of that power, we are using it to keep ourselves in this limited state. Right now, we are getting help from all over over the universe. But we are our own worst enemies. There are a lot of alien beings down here right now, walking around in human form and most of them don't know it. They are helping trying to get human beings out of this destructive cycle they have been in. They are working exhaustively to help us.

So many believe the ETs motives are sinister, but the sinister is within us. We are holding ourselves back. They don't want this "hunk of junk" called planet Earth. This physical reality, by the way, is not the principal reality. This is more like the "bottom of the barrel" to reality. It is a trap. The beings are trying to help us wake up to the flaws inherent in the physical reality. If we can reject it, we can get out. But getting super powerful beings (us) to reject it is proving to be very very difficult.

A most strange and puzzling point of view.
You believe we are “super-powerful beings”...in which case what would a super being be doing on this earth if it was so super powerful? And why would a super being be so ignorant to keep itself in this “limited state”? Why would anyone with the smallest brain want to keep itself in a prison if it was so powerful and presumably so advanced. This makes absolutely no sense and has no logic to it.

This thinking is probably the most amazing thing I hear almost everyday on this forum. We are super beings who some how have managed to get ourselves trapped on the earth by some really nasty bad guys who live in the astral....who fool us with white light and force us back onto the earth so we cannot get back to our super powerful buddies living just the other side of the astral ocean ;)

Life is not an episode of Star Wars....so you can relax. No one is lost or being held prisoner against their will...and I am not referring to the physical world.

We come back here simply because our consciousness is not yet at a level where we are able to comprehend the higher realms we so desperately seek to enter.
We are babies at the life game and the sooner we all realize this fact the sooner we will all get on with our true goal and start to work on the growth of our consciousness which comes automatically when living and learning about the laws of the cosmos and of life, and the ways to unify with them, and the freedom which is gained by such actions.

The great trap is simply the extent of the illusion in which we have individually thought our way into.

Take care
Ray

[778 neighbour of some guy]

If you find cyclical tabula rasa incarnation a bad thing, it should be a trap.

BST, Blank Slate Technology.

[Tony]

.




Light in darkness.

In these dark times we mistake
the dark for light and the light for dark.

The dark is our confusion.
The light is clarity.

Ego is our confusion.
Clarity is our essence.

When we speculate
we do not know.

When we know
there is no need for speculation.

The blind lead the blind into darkness.
The light of clarity illumines everything.

The moment we recognise our confusion
the light dawns.

Darkness is a heavy heart.
Lightness is a light heart.

En-lighten up ;)






Tony

[AngelArmy]

I recently saw the Simon Parkes interview and he said that when we die we shouldn't go into the light. I would like to know more about this. I have studied multiple NDE's online and this fascinates me. Where should we go?

[CaptnNemo]

I recently saw the Simon Parkes interview and he said that when we die we shouldn't go into the light. I would like to know more about this. I have studied multiple NDE's online and this fascinates me. Where should we go?

Hello Starseed, I'm not really going to help but all I can say is that there was a thread not too long ago just about that and a pretty long one at it also...I just can't remember in which category it was...I looked for it but can't seem to find it & I don't remember the exact thread title...lol..That's probably because of the indian tobacco I smoke but that's a different subject...:D

But I'm sure someone will post the info pretty soon so don't despair my friend :) It's also a good subject to reflect upon ..I know for sure that either way, it's worth the try to just move away from the fake welcome home light & try to get back to the source directly...I will surely remember to try as hard as I can if it happens lol...:)

In the meantime have a nice day & try to make it your best yet...I know I try every day :)

Sam

[Synchronicity]

Well, hmm. He can have an opinion just as anyone else can. That doesn't mean that "going into the light" is really something not to do. Without going into it I would say telling people not to do that is a great way to keep people stuck here. And "the light" is simply a frame of reference and not something fake unless you are working with someone who is deliberately telling you to go to some fake something. The welcome isn't fake when people cross over. But to each his own opinion. And yes, besides other reasons, I have had NDE myself...I have seen ones afraid of the light, too. To each his own.

[heyokah]

I recently saw the Simon Parkes interview and he said that when we die we shouldn't go into the light. I would like to know more about this. I have studied multiple NDE's online and this fascinates me. Where should we go?

Hello Starseed, I'm not really going to help but all I can say is that there was a thread not too long ago just about that and a pretty long one at it also...I just can't remember in which category it was...I looked for it but can't seem to find it & I don't remember the exact thread title...lol..That's probably because of the indian tobacco I smoke but that's a different subject...:D

But I'm sure someone will post the info pretty soon so don't despair my friend :) It's also a good subject to reflect upon ..I know for sure that either way, it's worth the try to just move away from the fake welcome home light & try to get back to the source directly...I will surely remember to try as hard as I can if it happens lol...:)

In the meantime have a nice day & try to make it your best yet...I know I try every day :)

Sam

Here you are :)

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59056-Going-into-light-after-death...-or-not

Start here for the White light.....

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59056-Going-into-light-after-death...-or-not/page3

[araucaria]

In a reply to a question on this subject, he says to focus on going 'home' to 'source'.

[seeker/reader]

On Simon's thread he answers some questions about the light and/or the tunnel here


removed links to private thread

[Pam]

I think it is as simple or complex as you want it to be. When it happens trust your own intuition..I have read of many NDE's and all have experienced internal guidance. Would you rather take the word of someone else, especially someone that you don't know?

[Sunny-side-up]

Hi starseed108 I had an experience (3 times) that caused me much doubt about the 'Going to the White Light' But after asking Simon he quenched them,
now I totally say no to the 'White Light' I will go home to Source, as my signature now says! I will not be erased !

Here as just posted by seeker/reader are some answers to some of my 'White Light' questions to Simon, there are more in his two posts, ill try to find them when on my own computer!

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30323-Simon-Parkes-about-Mantis-Aliens-Reptiles-and-other-aliens.&p=785031#post785031

[Hervé]

One way to look at this is to consider that, let's say for the last 10,000 years, there hasn't been much more than one iota of improvement on Earth from any of these dudes that went into that white light... when back on the ground... How come?

See?

10,000 years of prayers, hopes, incense burning, sacrifices, immolations, etc... and have a good look at where we are at.... I don't know about anyone else but I find that such an end result is an indication that there is something terribly not quite right.

[Sunny-side-up]

One way to look at this is to consider that, let's say for the last 10,000 years, there hasn't been much more than one iota of improvement on Earth from any of these dudes that went into that white light... when back on the ground... How come?

See?

10,000 years of prayers, hopes, incense burning, sacrifices, immolations, etc... and have a good look at where we are at.... I don't know about anyone else but I find that such an end result is an indication that there is something terribly not quite right.

Yes Amzer Zo 10,000 years of poor erased Souls,
100,000,
1,000,000
Lost ERASED SOULS of Lost True Light and Love!
Each of those Life experience's and knowledge from them all (US) should have been brought back here in each Re-Birth, where would we be now Hmm?

[seeker/reader]

Here are some more posts from Simon where he addresses the light after death.

removed links to private thread

[Jake]

I recently saw the Simon Parkes interview and he said that when we die we shouldn't go into the light. I would like to know more about this. I have studied multiple NDE's online and this fascinates me. Where should we go?

Simon answered that in the interview. He said to demand to go to source,, or demand to go back to wherever you originated from. I have to agree with Simon on this... Although The white light is something very personal and archetypal to us, it can be mimicked by those with the energy and the motivation... There are processes that we go through after the death of the physical body,, natural processes that have nothing to do with Archontic types... But OUR view of death is much different than theirs... We have been cut off from our non-physical counterpart, and any form of non-physical existence MUST have to do with death. (It is part of the lie) I have experienced similar 'reconstructions' in my OBE adventures... Once free from your body,, whatever environment you find yourself in,, it is VERY thought-responsive,,, and you must proceed with a clear mind, or the experience will be completely augmented, and you will not see what is really 'before' you... Other entities have gained mastery over this type of deception,, and can/will project imagery/archetypes into your mind, which becomes your experience... This game has been going on since far before I got caught up in it!!! I can also say this:: There are natural arbiters of the 'death' process.. And I think it is safe to say that they lament being impersonated... Experiencing a physical life, as a human,, is fleeting. From a higher perspective,, birth and death happen almost simultaneously,,, a soul approaches Earth, then FLASH!!! It transforms into a different type of soul. The earth/human experience makes non-physicals quite jealous.!

It is liken unto the Wizard of Oz. The Wizard can pull off all types of deceptions,, but it is a gambit, a game, a lie!! And behind the curtain is a scared, weak little person...

"BEHOLD, THE LIE!!" ... And that is my take on the White Light,, and the NDE!!!

Love to all.
Jake.

[Synchronicity]

But some do see white light and they are headed to where they need to be going. There is a perception on the part of the dying person and one on the part of anyone who may be doing shamanic work or simply be with them at that time and have a different view of where they are going. If the light means to you that you are to go where commanded by another, I would agree that following directions with no consideration of your own feelings on the subject wouldn't be good, and I agree that many who help guide people might be giving inaccurate info or working without knowledge and skills to help. But that "white light" some see when they are actively ready to cross IS their source or home or whatever you want to call it. I don't see the problem as the idea of white light, but as lots of people talking about things that sound good on paper or in sound bites on some shows that makes them famous, but not actually working with people crossing or learning to help if needed and do it safely and ethically.

So perhaps he is talking about something different than I am talking about. White light isn't a bad thing...not essential, but many do see it, many don't but see something else, and some mainly slip quietly to where they are going. There is no one size fits all at death and telling people not to go to light isn't helpful in my view if you don't add the part about listening to your own intuition. Light can be great and really where you want to be, or it can be a charlatan telling you what you want to hear. The point I think is to listen and feel.

[sheme]

Don't worry you will go to the place that you are on a similar vibration to- you have no choice -it is the law of the universe.

Like attracts like and that is all there is to it, we cannot miss steps of development -we can only go one step at a time.

Aim for too high a vibration and we regress and are rejected.

However we may go lower to assist, but there are risks to this.

This is my understanding.

No matter how hard we wish to be something higher -we are what we are in the place that we are in.

[Finefeather]

One way to look at this is to consider that, let's say for the last 10,000 years, there hasn't been much more than one iota of improvement on Earth from any of these dudes that went into that white light... when back on the ground... How come?

See?

10,000 years of prayers, hopes, incense burning, sacrifices, immolations, etc... and have a good look at where we are at.... I don't know about anyone else but I find that such an end result is an indication that there is something terribly not quite right.
This is more than wrong...it is almost blindness.
How many people do you think have been helped just by NDE reporting alone...where this light is mentioned...there are thousands of books out there...research is taking place.
There are videos and books all over the internet of how this experience has improved the way people think and have changed dramatically, for the better, since these experiences.

I hope you have one soon so you can get enwhitened...I mean enlightened :)

[Synchronicity]

And from the quote that Finefeather used I would add that this isn't true. Many people who have almost died have been profoundly changed and yes, they did and do grow and heal and try to help others. I had a NDE (well, more than one, but this one was the most profound and last so far) in 1987 and it changed my life forever. I didn't see a white light, but what I did experience intensified what I always was and it was really hard to come totally back. I guess I never totally did and that is fine with me, since I realized what my life's work is after it happened. I don't think it is anyone's place to tell people there is one "right" way to die and step through. I agree with Finefeather's post, too.

[Finefeather]

POST MODIFIED BECAUSE THE NAME HAS CHANGED.

The biggest problem IMO is that very very few people actually know who, or what, they actually are.

My understanding...for what it's worth...is that everything that we are, and ever will be, is right with us, right now. There is no out there or some where to travel to go to this 'source'.
We are each our own source...we just have a few layers wrapped around us which hide the true Self. When we die we just loose the physical body and change focus.

The white light is in our head and emanates from our core monad or primordial atom...it has been experienced by many enlightened beings and there are many who can see this during meditation as well.

[Kalamos]

..........

[Delight]

I have no idea at all but want to be fearless. The stories that suggest the traps sound like fear and so I am not interested.

My intention is to digest my fear of death because according to the Tibetan's our fears are what we project at the threshold of death. That makes more sense than other stories.

I had a close acquaintance from the Philippines who was Catholic and an an RN. During a completely normal natural delivery of her 3rd child, she went into a coma. In a million cases of birth, one woman may have a bit of amino fluid get in her bloodstream. It travels to the lungs, heart and brain. Most die, and the rest usually have problems as after a stroke.

For days her husband and friends kept vigil. Then a miracle happened. She awoke. She recalled all the conversations that she had heard speaking to her of the baby, the love people felt for her, the grief her husband felt and fear he had for the future. She did not go anywhere. She was always in a great light that inspired such love that all she could do was just sing praise to the light. She did not share any particular scenes or thoughts from the light. Light was encompassing and loving but she was not sad to leave it because "the light is everywhere". She did not know why she had this experience? She did want to be with her family and one day she woke up hungry. She had no residual problems except a slight numbness in her right leg that resolved.


Remember the clear light, the pure clear white light from which everything in the universe comes, to which everything in the universe returns; the original nature of your own mind. The natural state of the universe unmanifest. Let go into the clear light, trust it, merge with it. It is your own true nature, it is home.
-Tibetan Book of the Dead

Read more at http://www.beliefnet.com/Quotes/Budd...gsrIEAkGrq7.99

This is a great video for those interested in Tibetan ideas.

iEX5mBqa554


Also, the

[heyokah]

I don't think that being well informed about 'what way to go and what way to avoid' has anything to do with fear.
It is knowledge, which makes one prepared..... And free.

-

I'm posting this reply of dpwishy from another thread .
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59056-Going-into-light-after-death...-or-not/page2

The discussion that followed is an interesting read as well.


The light is what strips you of your memories and experiences and tosses you back into the cycle of reincarnation. Enlightenment is knowing not to go into the light. Your life should be a preparation for death. You should be preparing and practicing for that one moment, that way at the moment of death you can keep your awareness and not drift off into a "sleep". This is why meditation and astral projection is so important! They are preparations to be able to keep your consciousness at the moment of death. If you can stay conscious here, the first thing you should ask for without hesitation is to ask to experience your "true self". Program yourself so that this is the first thought and only thought that goes through your mind. Don't be distracted by the realization of death, by the astonishment, beauty and so forth. Your only desire and demand should be to experience the true self. 

You are fragmented over many realities, countless. You interact with them to some capacity wen you sleep, this should be familiar to you at some level. You should be able to have a free connection to these other parts of you. You are jailed off locked into this reality made to believe this is what you truly are. Some how we did this to ourselves. We were tricked in a sense to try a new experience not knowing that the experience would keep us trapped here over and over. You are put in a place where its nearly IMPOSSIBLE to learn what you need to learn within a single life to get "out". When you die, everything you have learned is scrubbed clean. Does this sound like a system that is designed for your progression and evolution? 

But here is the kicker in my opinion. A secret I don't tell many. This is just a video game. Say that to yourself and remember, "This is just a video game". The population will wake up to that realization soon enough. And in doing so, they will realize that they have the power to play what ever game they choose collectively. They were always choosing which game to play from the very beginning, they were just manipulated in their choosing. They were choosing to pick unconsciously, thus were heavily influenced by outside forces. This is were the technological singularity comes in, technology will advance to a point until we realize that we are that technology and them BAM! I believe our education system, religion systems, political systems, authoritative systems, music, clothing, media, movies, radio, invisible frequencies and so forth are all being used to form our mind to make certain choices on auto pilot. It is this that keeps us playing this game unconsciously. Soon enough people will realize that this is a video game, the only rule until the technological singularity being you have to forget you are playing to play. And in doing so, we will choose consciously what to play together.

I'd like to add one more thing. About ten years ago I was taken from my body and I had an experience with the creator source. I saw the whole shape of the realities and dimensions, they looked like dna spirals that made up this weird X that rotated around its middle axis. It had this spin to it. I was sucked into a very tiny section of this. When I broke through to its dimension, the membrane was orange from the outside and only blinding white light after I broke through. I heard a voice telling me that I was not alone and that it loved me. I asked who it was and it said it was "God". I couldn't see anything only hear it and knew its presence was there. An amazing presence, that was undeniable. The light was so blinding and warm. I told it i did not believe in God and it told me it could "touch me", it could prove it.  Without time to process what it said something went through my soul that just knew this was the creator. The most pure love I have ever felt. It honestly hurt to feel it, I felt it only for a second and it was gone. If I felt  it for any longer it would have destroyed me, it was so powerful. I have been in love with girls, I love my parents, my family. But I realized at that moment I have never felt true love before. It changed my life forever and was the kick start I needed for my remembering. I came back to my body crying for an hour repeating "I'm sorry I didn't believe you". The reason I share this is because I broke through an orange membrane and came into the blinding light. I did not follow and go into the light. Those are two different things all together! That is important to realize.
 

[Ealiss]

As a psychic I can tell you what happens if you don't go into the white light of all the good people and angelic beings waiting for you. You won't meet those who love you (and already passed) because they are in the light. Instead you will be stuck on earth. Until you find a way of finding the white light and going there. You will be a wandering ghost.

EDITED: (I realized that I was only telling half and giving the wrong impression. Apologies.) When people go to the creator and say; "Take my soul" it usually means they want to be erased. Exterminated. Executed. Some souls do that. They tend to be very evil or incredibly sad. So the choice is to either cease to exist for eternity or to go to an very long existence of horror while facing up to the evil that they've done. It's a cop out.

You can also go to the creator and just ask questions like you would do with a spirit guide but we are not really on wave length so much. At least I wasn't when I went. So it is easier to ask a higher spirit, a spirit guide. They are more on our wavelength.

If what you see "the creator" as is "the world" then yes, of course you will naturally be able to roam the earth and enjoy it fully after you pass. There is no rush to be re-born. All is well. You don't have to go into death full of fear. As so many have said: Follow your own intuition and also trust in love.

Your life here on earth is just a fraction of who you really are. It's not your true self.

EDIT: I also decided to remove my hotheaded vent. I can't help my temper, even though I do try. :juggle:

[Hip Hipnotist]

I'm following this guy...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoEwR9_Sy_M

Yeah, I know, 'just a movie'.

But isn't that what we're all living?

See ya on the other side! ;)

[Maia Gabrial]

Robert Morning Sky sheds light on this in his old video:
RqsMTLPS4fg

He shares what the Star Elder told his grandfather about the history of the Earth. How there were these "light chambers" that humans were forced to go into to wipe out their memories. Btw Cobra talks about light chambers, too that everyone will be forced to go through after the Event. These chambers are where we get "going into the light" and losing our memories from.... He's saying that when you die to turn away from this light because that's what has been trapping humanity in a neverending cycle of reincarnation. He said to turn away from it and look at the OTHER light because that would be your OWN light. People want to call him an antichrist for this comment, but it makes sense if you think about it....

[blufire]

I will have to agree with Finefeather on this topic and I too apologize to all the Simon fans. . . .

These past several months when logging onto Pa I come away with the following for we humans of planet earth and if I take to heart what many posts are about these days:

• Afraid to eat anything at all, because ‘they’ are killing us and exterminating the human race with gmo food that somehow is in everything we eat.

• Or . . afraid to eat what is natural for human omnivores because If I consume meat then I am doomed to a horrible 3rd density reality and will never become conscious or enlightened (what ever this means now)

• That living on planet earth in the 3rd dimension (?), in this organic body and with this soul/spirit is somehow entirely archaic, evil, enslaved and most miserable existence possible.

• I’m should be always aware of these dark beings (archons) that are everywhere around me and their sole purpose is to keep me enslaved to the darkness and these elite that are in no way regular ‘ole human beings but have some super power over the rest of us humans

• Courtney Brown of the next ‘meme creating’ guru spoon feeding b***sh** that sets most up for the next brainwashing session. Don’t forget now to check his next little clue to the ‘Big Announcement” and pray you are conscious and enlightened enough to understand the meaning when it maybe, sorta , perhaps, someday, but oh wait not enough didn’t get it so it postponed until next year ongoing yawn fest.

• I should be afraid to step outside because of Chemtrails (that while they do exist and geoengineering the planet) somehow are completely contaminating the entire surface of the earth and are creating a multitude of illnesses that are slowly and softly killing the entire human race. But oddly the population of humans is exponentially growing . . . . .oh sorry, I forgot that is a fallacy too

• That the world is in no way over populated but could withstand several billion more but that we all should live in little defined square foot high rise buildings and just share all the massive amounts of food and water and resources that would somehow just abundantly appear (from the scarcity driven empire of these elites) from each of our little balcony gardens and continue to have multiple babies.

• The chemtrail geoengineering is to create a new environment for afore said archons and evil reptilian overlords so they can take over the planet and use the resources that humans have already obliterated and that even though they are killing us humans we are somehow their next meal. Pay no mind that quite possibly the geoengineering technology is to perhaps save our collective butts from another global catastrophic weather change that in centuries past have knocked us back to the stone age.

• “They” are somehow changing our planets entire climate and atmosphere . . pay no attention that these dramatic and catastrophic weather changes are cyclical and occurring throughout our solar system.

• I should not under any circumstances drink the water whether from my faucet because of the fluoride and other chemicals that will give me multiple different mental illnesses nor the water the from the rainfall (let alone melt the snow(if you can melt it)) because it is laden with a multiple other chemicals and metals. I am doomed to complete total mental illness . . .thank goodness I’m already a little crazy so maybe I won’t notice.

• I could go on . . . but now we come to . . . . . . . .


Good Lord Almighty if you die make sure you don’t go into the white light because you will be ‘erased’ with all memories obliterated and you get to start all over living the same horrible existence and life as outlined above.

Really People? Shut the damn computer off and go outside and experience nature in all her glory and nurturing, healing environments and seasons When is the last time you went outside and actually truly took in what our planet is all about?

Go outside . . take a day off and go play in the woods and listen to the birds and watch the critters. Go to a farm and see baby animals being born and new gardens being planted. Have a snow fight or mud slinging brouhaha, get dirty . . laugh a LOT! Go sit by a creek or lake and let the water soothe your overactive negative fallacy filled mind.

Take a good long break from looking at ANYTHING with a screen attached to it . . .a good long break . . . . see the world for what it truly is without all the ‘meme creating’ crap.

And by all means when you think you may be about to kick the Bucket . . . Don’t be afraid that you are passing to the next dimension (dying) and by all means in no way be afraid of the white light . . . it is your own true form of pure energy in all its brilliance.

[Milneman]

LMAO!!!!!!! Ealiss, I just found this thread, and had to thank you for the chuckle not because I agree or disagree with what's being talked about...clearly I need to look into this further...but because I love the wit! ;)

What's interesting here is what's behind the core beliefs that lead people to believe one, or the other, or neither. I find it VERY interesting from a psychological and sociological point of view that a world view that looks at any authority as wanting to manipulate, control, and go to any ends to do so creates a kind of rebel green thumb mentality that even goes beyond the grave.

What about this for a suggestion? How about worry how you do on THIS world and deal with what happens WHEN you die when you die? My thinking is if you're a solid person who's morally and intellectually straight, you're going to be able to figure this out.

There are subjects that require scholarly examination, and some that just fall into the category of impossible to know with 100% certainty.

I know with 99% certainty that the light chambers are a false belief. I know this from my own personal experience. I also know that even though an advanced civilization may have technology so advanced that lower civilizations might consider it magic, one must also realize this: even though a spiritually advanced civilization may have concepts of conscious contact with Creation and the Creator, other technologically advanced civilizations may consider THAT magic as well, and want to use everything in their advanced technological states to try and "take" what cannot be taken.

Y'all gotta understand: we're further along in some ways than most of them out there. Why else are they coming here?

Believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see.

[lightseeker]

Starseed108, you might find the answer you are searching for on wespenre.com. I learned of this site from Kerry Cassidy two or three years back and have read all of his research, from Level 1 to his most recent Level 4. In section 4 go to book 16 I believe, you will find the answer you are looking for. Going into the light is a trap, so that you are perpetually recycled back to earth through re incarnation at the whim of En.Ki. AKA Lucifer etc. There is still a grid around this planet in which we are unable to escape accoring to Penre. I suggest that you begin reading his work from Level 1 on ward. It will take you a very long time to get through all of his very well researched material, especially is you decide to check out his references and do your own research as I have. It is well worth the effort. You are not obliged to accept what Penre says. He makes it very clear that his research is about his journey and all are welcomed to explore and read his discoveries. You may or may not agree with some of his findings but you will learn a great deal, and may not necessarily agree with all you read. The choice is your.

[TODD & NORA]

..........

[Limor Wolf]

I do appologise, but I can only contribute to this discussion briefly. The core of the belief in the system of the 'afterlife' is pretty much the same as the belief in the system of this life. Until one reaches to a thourgh understanding that this world we live in is orchastrated in so many ways, many arguments 'against' and 'pro' will be bound to happen whenever a group of people is going to gather and exchange their own perceptions about it. Now, here on Avaon, that may not happen anymore because people have made their research over the years and mostly understand that there is a force in this world that holds it under it's tight grip and the condotions of living are that of a prison planet, rather than the nice illusion of freedom we were indoctrinated to believe in. Now, try to tell that to the many happy citizens, that are being overwhelmed by tax paying as we speak but on the other hand are still having their day off at the beach, and life looks good from where they are and see what type of response you will recieve.

The life on this planet is a mere constuct. It shouldn't be this way, it was hitchhiked and turned to be a system of enslavement with a lot of goodies that cover the real nature of the place. Same thing is with the 'afterlife', anyone who has made their homework, (usually via quite an unusual learning : ) , have come to the conclusion and to the depth of understanding that the circulating process of the soul departing from the body, being wiped from it's memory and being sent back again to 'learn it's lessons' is a part of the same 'construct system' of enslavement by the same hands that is represented to us as the 'sumerian gods'.

If we like to fully regain our freedom, we need to wake up from our general illusions and at least be willing to consider what is done from all aspects. Not an easy task at hand, as we are immersed in a tunnelvision perspective, and also psychologically quite valnurable to be able to digest this, therefore can not see far behind where our focus is at now (intentionally programmed this way), meaning the body. Simon Parkes is quite right when he says the 'White light is a costruct worth to avoid', but this 'knowledge' may be dependent on the real and true understandings that the dimensions- the place where the earthly soul arrives after it departs from the body, is under the same occupation as earth is and an extention to the same system presented to us on this planet.

True cosmic freedom of grand realms and universes exists beyond the trail we were taught to walk in, even if a few 'lucky ones' are coming back to sell us this brainwash of marketing. As below so above. The best thing we might do is not to be so dismissive but more willing to classify this idea in the 'I don't know drawer' and see what else comes to our direction in that regard.

I do appologise for needing to rush out of the door and not wording this post in a more 'comfortable' manner, sorry about that, take of it what you will, if you will :)

All the best,

Limor

[Sunny-side-up]

I don't think that being well informed about 'what way to go and what way to avoid' has anything to do with fear.
It is knowledge, which makes one prepared..... And free.

-

I'm posting this reply of dpwishy from another thread .
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59056-Going-into-light-after-death...-or-not/page2

The discussion that followed is an interesting read as well.


The light is what strips you of your memories and experiences and tosses you back into the cycle of reincarnation. Enlightenment is knowing not to go into the light. Your life should be a preparation for death. You should be preparing and practicing for that one moment, that way at the moment of death you can keep your awareness and not drift off into a "sleep". This is why meditation and astral projection is so important! They are preparations to be able to keep your consciousness at the moment of death. If you can stay conscious here, the first thing you should ask for without hesitation is to ask to experience your "true self". Program yourself so that this is the first thought and only thought that goes through your mind. Don't be distracted by the realization of death, by the astonishment, beauty and so forth. Your only desire and demand should be to experience the true self. 

You are fragmented over many realities, countless. You interact with them to some capacity wen you sleep, this should be familiar to you at some level. You should be able to have a free connection to these other parts of you. You are jailed off locked into this reality made to believe this is what you truly are. Some how we did this to ourselves. We were tricked in a sense to try a new experience not knowing that the experience would keep us trapped here over and over. You are put in a place where its nearly IMPOSSIBLE to learn what you need to learn within a single life to get "out". When you die, everything you have learned is scrubbed clean. Does this sound like a system that is designed for your progression and evolution? 

But here is the kicker in my opinion. A secret I don't tell many. This is just a video game. Say that to yourself and remember, "This is just a video game". The population will wake up to that realization soon enough. And in doing so, they will realize that they have the power to play what ever game they choose collectively. They were always choosing which game to play from the very beginning, they were just manipulated in their choosing. They were choosing to pick unconsciously, thus were heavily influenced by outside forces. This is were the technological singularity comes in, technology will advance to a point until we realize that we are that technology and them BAM! I believe our education system, religion systems, political systems, authoritative systems, music, clothing, media, movies, radio, invisible frequencies and so forth are all being used to form our mind to make certain choices on auto pilot. It is this that keeps us playing this game unconsciously. Soon enough people will realize that this is a video game, the only rule until the technological singularity being you have to forget you are playing to play. And in doing so, we will choose consciously what to play together.

I'd like to add one more thing. About ten years ago I was taken from my body and I had an experience with the creator source. I saw the whole shape of the realities and dimensions, they looked like dna spirals that made up this weird X that rotated around its middle axis. It had this spin to it. I was sucked into a very tiny section of this. When I broke through to its dimension, the membrane was orange from the outside and only blinding white light after I broke through. I heard a voice telling me that I was not alone and that it loved me. I asked who it was and it said it was "God". I couldn't see anything only hear it and knew its presence was there. An amazing presence, that was undeniable. The light was so blinding and warm. I told it i did not believe in God and it told me it could "touch me", it could prove it.  Without time to process what it said something went through my soul that just knew this was the creator. The most pure love I have ever felt. It honestly hurt to feel it, I felt it only for a second and it was gone. If I felt  it for any longer it would have destroyed me, it was so powerful. I have been in love with girls, I love my parents, my family. But I realized at that moment I have never felt true love before. It changed my life forever and was the kick start I needed for my remembering. I came back to my body crying for an hour repeating "I'm sorry I didn't believe you". The reason I share this is because I broke through an orange membrane and came into the blinding light. I did not follow and go into the light. Those are two different things all together! That is important to realize.
 

Yes Heyokah.

Hi Calamus , what a merry merry-go-round this all is ha.


If we consider how big this world is, and how much is unseen from a physical perspective, do you really think leaving Earth Life Evolution to return to Source, is all their is left to do?

What if when you get to Source, you meet Source, and IT says, "well ... what do you want to do now?" And you say, "well I want to go play around the universe, and create new worlds where everything is just perfect!"

"Okay, go on ahead", says Source.

And off you go to create perfect worlds in some Cosmic Play Space. Then after awhile you might realize you are only dreaming it all up. That nothing you are creating has any purpose or real substance, but to fulfill your desires. But you could go on for ages, dreaming and dreaming till one day, you realize that you are only dreaming, and that the real world you left behind was where all your REAL friends and brothers (classmates/'life wave') are still taking turns teaching each other, watched over by (mostly, cautiously) silent teachers in the background.

I'm in no way saying I've learned all there is to know here on Earth in this realm, far, far, far from it!

If I say I won't to go back to Source it is to deny any dark forces (Demons, Djinn, Aliens, or any other passable entities) hi jacking me. I feel in my Heart that the 'Go To The Light' has been corrupted into an Erasing trap, I feel I have been given/shown through some of my more profound Earthly realm experiences that there is a trap!
I have been given a brain and as such believe if shown there to be choices and or passable long-time-functioning-traps, well then I this time around will be calling out to Source for guidance and not just diving into the head-lights!

When my time comes I don't won't to go to Source just to play: I won't to go directly (If possible) and not get erased!

I won't to come back functioning rather than in the merry-go-round mystery tour!

The 'Light trap' as in 'Go to The Light' feels like part of a previous life hi-jacked wrong turn, a wrong turn that needs to be corrected and a memory that is also part of my to do work here and now, or at least to look into it.

This resonates deeply in me, that I do know! This is my observation and path which I am sharing here in Avalon, I'm not dictating this or saying I'm right.

If it is a trap, well! look at all the damage it has possibly done to the humanity.


So many reply's to this post, I have now got to re-track and read some more! Such is life ha

Love and Hugs
Alan

[Delight]

Having had no experience, I cannot say I know but here is a question. What if this whole "Don't go to the Light" is as mental as any construct of our mind in the Bardo. AND what if this is Bardo here and now? It sure seems like it some days. What if we have been been going round and round in the Bardo thinking it was going to happen later? Afterall, we can only presume we are seeing anything at all NOT BARDO. But I am still feeling pretty positive that love is real because I have felt it and it feels really GOOD so I'll just follow where I feel love now and whenever.

[blufire]

I would like to suggest this one very simple and awe inspiring suggestion . . . .

Volunteer with a nursing home, hospice or other way that you can experience the point a soul leaves this dimension and enters into the next . . . . you will see the most humbling extraordinary phenomenon imaginable.

I have been with several people including my father as they passed through the veil and at the point the pure energy that is the soul leaves their organic body you will briefly see a complete and utter peace sweep through them. With 4 people (including my father) as their body was at the brink of releasing the soul a slight smile came upon them and they breathed no more.

With each of them their was no doubt in my mind they were experiencing the white light of their own brilliant soul energy as well as their energy reuniting with souls they have ‘known’ throughout the ‘place’ all energy returns and melds back into the fold.

Go see babies being born and go see people returning to the source (dying) . . . . experience it . . .many times . . . then you come back and tell me on this forum that it is evil and dark and a trap.

It is a shame and tragedy that something so utterly phenomenal and beautiful is being manipulated into yet another fear filled meme.

[Sunny-side-up]

I would like to suggest this one very simple and awe inspiring suggestion . . . .

Volunteer with a nursing home, hospice or other way that you can experience the point a soul leaves this dimension and enters into the next . . . . you will see the most humbling extraordinary phenomenon imaginable.

I have been with several people including my father as they passed through the veil and at the point the pure energy that is the soul leaves their organic body you will briefly see a complete and utter peace sweep through them. With 4 people (including my father) as their body was at the brink of releasing the soul a slight smile came upon them and they breathed no more.

With each of them their was no doubt in my mind they were experiencing the white light of their own brilliant soul energy as well as their energy reuniting with souls they have ‘known’ throughout the ‘place’ all energy returns and melds back into the fold.

Go see babies being born and go see people returning to the source (dying) . . . . experience it . . .many times . . . then you come back and tell me on this forum that it is evil and dark and a trap.

It is a shame and tragedy that something so utterly phenomenal and beautiful is being manipulated into yet another fear filled meme.

Hi blufire :)

I have, I've seen much death with in my life time so far (Maybe even my own a few times?)
I've experienced my father die with me trying to save him with my own hand's, I felt him pass, I was kneeling over him, his last breaths where from my mouth.
I've seen my mother reach skywards with joy on her face as she died!
Iv'e seen seen wife's Nan placed into her final bed and such peace come to her. I felt this peace in the room befor it happened, someone/spirit was there, a guide to take her, I felt that!

My father died in a painful way, he did not deserve it, maybe he needed to experience such a passing? I experienced his passing in a painful way.

The joy on faces at death is not confirmed sign that they are going into caring hands! we have all been conditioned to feel and think that at death, IE 'Go To The Light'

I do not in any way fear death, I fear if anything the pomposity of being tricked and used as food/slave and deprived my memories that could be built upon, evolved!

If it happens soon I will try my way! I(f it works out well maybe ill be-able to pass on the knowledge with full certainty, next time around!

I'm trying to evolve, I'm trying to prepare and find any traps (if there are such things!)

Ill try the turn away from the Light, at least that way ill be helping to cover the chances of one of us (one way or the other) getting it right, not all Egg's in one basket as they say!

Such a story this thing called life and death ha!

This is for sure though, I wish each and every one of you Love from my Heart

[observer]

Robert Morning Sky sheds light on this in his old video:
RqsMTLPS4fg

He shares what the Star Elder told his grandfather about the history of the Earth. How there were these "light chambers" that humans were forced to go into to wipe out their memories. Btw Cobra talks about light chambers, too that everyone will be forced to go through after the Event. These chambers are where we get "going into the light" and losing our memories from.... He's saying that when you die to turn away from this light because that's what has been trapping humanity in a neverending cycle of reincarnation. He said to turn away from it and look at the OTHER light because that would be your OWN light. People want to call him an antichrist for this comment, but it makes sense if you think about it....


Robert Morningsky says that when you see the white light that you should turn-around, and you will see the true light of your source. (paraphrase).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcH62LGSHdg
(Move timer over to 1 min: 50 sec.)

I'm convinced, from the records of antiquity, that the Golden Light is the light to seek. If one considers most of the earliest civilizations of Humanity were Sun Worshipers, it only stands to reason the Golden Light of the sun is the exit from the matrix.

I know this opinion will draw fire from many of the members, but there is simply too much evidence (governmental involvement) that points to the white light being associated with a Soul Harvesting Operation on the Moon. The members can try to debunk this theory all they wish, but I ask one simple question:

In the entire history of the human species, have any of the Theologies of Humanity - White Light Seekers included - ever worked?

[greybeard]

so what about those who have had near death experiences gone into the light and come back better persons?

Anita Moorjani- the Near- Death Experience and how to live without fear.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DExbitdDfA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZFml7LEn68


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE-AvKtSjKo

There are many other NDE's to be found --however they say much the same thing.

Chris

[seeker/reader]

Robert Morning Sky sheds light on this in his old video:
RqsMTLPS4fg

He shares what the Star Elder told his grandfather about the history of the Earth. How there were these "light chambers" that humans were forced to go into to wipe out their memories. Btw Cobra talks about light chambers, too that everyone will be forced to go through after the Event. These chambers are where we get "going into the light" and losing our memories from.... He's saying that when you die to turn away from this light because that's what has been trapping humanity in a neverending cycle of reincarnation. He said to turn away from it and look at the OTHER light because that would be your OWN light. People want to call him an antichrist for this comment, but it makes sense if you think about it....


Robert Morningsky says that when you see the white light that you should turn-around, and you will see the true light of your source. (paraphrase).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcH62LGSHdg
(Move timer over to 1 min: 50 sec.)

I'm convinced, from the records of antiquity, that the Golden Light is the light to seek. If one considers most of the earliest civilizations of Humanity were Sun Worshipers, it only stands to reason the Golden Light of the sun is the exit from the matrix.

I know this opinion will draw fire from many of the members, but there is simply too much evidence (governmental involvement) that points to the white light being associated with a Soul Harvesting Operation on the Moon. The members can try to debunk this theory all they wish, but I ask one simple question:

In the entire history of the human species, have any of the Theologies of Humanity - White Light Seekers included - ever worked?

Observer,

I think you may be onto something with the white versus golden light concept.

As a society we are bombarded with "white" meaning concepts such as being pure, uncorrupted, true, perfect, flawless, impeccable, etc.. Maybe this is just part of the archetype programming, prepping us for our foray into the afterlife and being approached by the false "white light".

p.s. I am in no way making any reference to race here, just to the color of white and it's use in our vocabulary

[heyokah]

-Robert Morningsky advices to stop, look around, go out into space and find your 'OWN Light'. 
The luring white light outside oneself, is used as a reprogramming centre to install amnesia and screw up our lives, because we forget our past lives from this. Thus remaining in a loop of lives, over and over again. The wheel of karma.

-

To me, this 'OWN Light' one will see a few moments before dying and sometimes much earlier, even years earlier, as one can 'train' oneself, through raising one's vibration, in 'merging' with this light as a preparation for the moment of death.

I don't know if one's 'Own Light' will unite one with all the friends and family members that died before.
But merging with one's 'OWN Light' will bring one to that place of 'piece and silence' where one can be the "unimaginable" and meet the "unimaginables" in love and unity.

And who knows, observer, the color of the 'Own Light' will be Golden...* [Like the sun I saw from the peaceful cave I found myself in during a NDE.....that Golden Light of Love, or the Clear Light of Ultimate Reality, according to the "Bardo Thodol". ]

-

Sorry for the crippled English as this was a 'difficult one' :)

[Finefeather]

I'm convinced, from the records of antiquity, that the Golden Light is the light to seek. If one considers most of the earliest civilizations of Humanity were Sun Worshipers, it only stands to reason the Golden Light of the sun is the exit from the matrix.

Actually the suns light is white...all you have to do is use some prisms and you will notice it's pure white light.

the Sun is white, not yellow.
For you graphics people or web developers out there, the exact color of the sun is #fff5f2. The reason the Sun looks yellow to us on Earth is that our atmosphere scatters light from the Sun; so the apparent color of the sun changes. This same scattering effect is why the sky looks blue in the day time instead of black, like at night.

Specifically, what is going on here is the Earth’s atmosphere scatters light in the blue and violet wavelength range, so the remaining wavelengths of light appear yellow. This same effect is why the sky will also often appear yellow when the Sun is disappearing over the horizon, as well as why the sky/Sun can appear more red at times during this phase of the day.

As the sun is setting, more of the shorter wavelength blue is being scattered because of the decreased angle of the sun relative to you; thus the light has to pass through more atmosphere to get to you. This increased diffusion results in less of the blue wavelength being visible to you and thus what remains appears yellow. Similarly, if it is dusty or there are a lot of other larger particles in the air, this will filter out larger wavelengths, resulting in a red sky and red sun.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB5kfAGPHtw#t=42

So I guess it's just another theory out the door.

[Wind]

The veil of forgetfulness (http://www.in5d.com/all-about-the-veil-of-forgetfulness.html) exists for a reason and we chose to be here for a reason at this time. If all of us remembered and fully aknowledged that we're all God in human form then would there be any fun in the game of life? What would there be left to learn if there was no drama in the cosmic play? At the moment we are experiencing dualism in this world. The spirit world is full of love and and also there we learn so much, but not as much as here.

We all may choose to believe what we want to, but in the end it always comes to the question... Would you rather choose love or fear? I know what my choice is. In everloving God I trust.

NnCr4etOZLw

[thunder24]

Dang I could use a smoke, anybody gotta light?

[heyokah]

I'm convinced, from the records of antiquity, that the Golden Light is the light to seek. If one considers most of the earliest civilizations of Humanity were Sun Worshipers, it only stands to reason the Golden Light of the sun is the exit from the matrix.



Actually the suns light is white...all you have to do is use some prisms and you will notice it's pure white light.
the Sun is white, not yellow.


It feels YELLOW :)

[Delight]

I said I have no experience but thought again. Once I smoked salvia. It is an entheogen that is legal I think still in the US? It gives a brief intense "trip". I was outside sitting on the grass when the experience hit. I lost complete control and awareness of everything. I was in a black void. Out of nowhere I reassured myself "This is a drug effect and will wear off". So I was calm. Then i saw a loaf of bread appear that was falling in slices. Then I just came back to my body.

I was with my husband when he died after lengthy fearful struggle. I felt with him I believe because I was in bliss for weeks. Later Carol Clarke did a reading where a male said through her "Dying was hard but afterwards it was a mystical experience". I think she was communicating with him.

The reason I bring this up is that I do agree there is benefit in learning how to die because we will most likely. Maybe some will ascend? I have no idea? I do not think it is 'wrong" to entertain ideas about what it will be about but the main thing I KNOW from working as a hospice nurse...Dying takes a combination of relaxation and energy. A person can be too tired to die. One can be too tense to die. One can linger in the body from fear.

My response to worry about all this is:
1. In all this discussion of the ideas from all these sources so adamant, none of you are dead. So you cannot be an expert. Even people with NDEs are alive. Why would anyone adopt a thought form from someone (anyone) about which you know nothing. Frankly it's hilarious to me. (no offense but the certainty about the unknown makes no sense. I am so amused)
a. given that it is an unknown, one should focus more on living well.

2.In all this discussion, I hear very little trust in love...so I am really happy I have the trust in love to follow it as I said I will. I self approve following love at all times. She may be white or may look black for all I know? But the FEELING is the same.

3. Meditation does yield familiarity with relaxed, focused inner awareness....recommended by all for death training.

4. The people I know who died very hard were afraid they had failed to be worthy of life after death. So, I'm sure we should look at death as our ally and never do anything we consider an obstacle to our further living. That does not mean we should be perfect. IMO it means perfecting self forgiveness and redemption as in "go free from the past and don't keep doing what you say you know is wrong."

[Synchronicity]

I said I have no experience but thought again. Once I smoked salvia. It is an entheogen that is legal I think still in the US? It gives a brief intense "trip". I was outside sitting on the grass when the experience hit. I lost complete control and awareness of everything. I was in a black void. Out of nowhere I reassured myself "This is a drug effect and will wear off". So I was calm. Then i saw a loaf of bread appear that was falling in slices. Then I just came back to my body.

I was with my husband when he died after lengthy fearful struggle. I felt with him I believe because I was in bliss for weeks. Later Carol Clarke did a reading where a male said through her "Dying was hard but afterwards it was a mystical experience". I think she was communicating with him.

The reason I bring this up is that I do agree there is benefit in learning how to die because we will most likely. Maybe some will ascend? I have no idea? I do not think it is 'wrong" to entertain ideas about what it will be about but the main thing I KNOW from working as a hospice nurse...Dying takes a combination of relaxation and energy. A person can be too tired to die. One can be too tense to die. One can linger in the body from fear.

My response to worry about all this is:
1. In all this discussion of the ideas from all these sources so adamant, none of you are dead. So you cannot be an expert. Even people with NDEs are alive. Why would anyone adopt a thought form from someone (anyone) about which you know nothing. Frankly it's hilarious to me. (no offense but the certainty about the unknown makes no sense. I am so amused)
a. given that it is an unknown, one should focus more on living well.

2.In all this discussion, I hear very little trust in love...so I am really happy I have the trust in love to follow it as I said I will. I self approve following love at all times. She may be white or may look black for all I know? But the FEELING is the same.

3. Meditation does yield familiarity with relaxed, focused inner awareness....recommended by all for death training.

4. The people I know who died very hard were afraid they had failed to be worthy of life after death. So, I'm sure we should look at death as our ally and never do anything we consider an obstacle to our further living. That does not mean we should be perfect. IMO it means perfecting self forgiveness and redemption as in "go free from the past and don't keep doing what you say you know is wrong."

My comments come from working with dying people as you do, and if you speak with shamans they will tell you they walk in both worlds...helping people cross and making sure they are cared for is part of the process, and so there are frames of reference. And yes, many times connecting energetically with a person as s/he is dying can help them communicate with loved ones, relax and let go, release fear, and help them understand what is happening so they can move on if they are ready, and even helping them after. It is amazing what a difference it can make for the person and all the ones around him or her.

[heyokah]

Here's my reply to a question about blissful feelings with regard to NDE from another thread. [edited a little]



snip.........
in re to those who have had NDE and come back in awe and reverence of this experience, are you able to explain(for arguements sake) how their blissful feelings can be as a result of supposed deceit,


Hi lookbeyond,
An interesting question.

In 1971 ( 24 and mother of a one-year-old daughter) I was in a coma for 3 weeks. I saw 'Hell', as an observer, experienced a peaceful stay in a cave, with a view of a sunny sky from the entrance and a stay with 'Light Beings', with whom I communicated telepathically.
In those last two places I felt free and peaceful, nothing more or less.
I 'was told to go back', because "there was still a lot to do for me in this earthly existence".

Was this a NDE? Specialists told me they had been images of my brain, as I had been suffering from an inflammation of my brain caused by an unknown virus.

I was confused, it 'changed my life' and my 'Search' began....
I can still see the whole 'picture' before me and it has stayed with me my whole life without changing. (I'm 66 now).

There was no feeling of bliss, just silence and peace of mind, as in meditation. And yes, I would have liked to stay there and felt very ashamed to admit that when I was "back", because I had a happy marriage and a lovely little daughter....

I can go back to that 'cave' whenever I want, often by using Drunvalo Melchizedek's "Living in the Heart" method.

I'm posting hereby a quote from a site about near-death experiences.


There are several theories to explain how coming close to death can give rise to near-death experiences.
Lack of oxygen is often implicated, although many near-death experiences occur when people are not deprived of oxygen, as in falls from mountains, during suicide attempts by jumping from heights, or after accidents.
In such situations, however, the production and actions of various hormones and neurotransmitters may be affected.
There are theories based on stimulation of receptors in nerve cell membranes called NMDA receptors, on the effects of the neurotransmitter serotonin, and on the level of endorphins (the brain's own morphine-like chemicals).
Endorphins are known to produce positive emotions and reduction of pain, and may be responsible for the blissful feelings in the midst of pain and fear.
Disruption of the brain's neurotransmitters can produce random or excessive firing of neurons and this, depending on where it occurs, may produce the other experiences.
For example, electrical stimulation of the temporal lobe of the cerebral hemispheres can produce life reviews and sensations of floating or flying, while random firing in the parts of the visual cortex (which also occurs with drugs such as LSD) causes the perception of lights, tunnels, and spirals.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/near-death-experience#ixzz2TLdhj6ub

This was just MY experience and it doesn't prove or explain anything :)

[Hervé]

Interesting... I never thought this following sentence to have a very literal sense:



"Kill them all. For the Lord knows those that are His own."

... I guess God's little grey soldiers were very busy at the triage gates to the implanting stations....

[Christine]

My first thought on reading this thread was, how odd to find this fine group of people taking sides on whether to go to the white light or not… Um, I think, I wonder what have we learned? Who determines where one goes after death of the body. You? Your mother? Your father in heaven? The ones who went before you? Your local implanters?

It seems self evident to me that by living a life of purpose, a seeker of TRUE knowledge… and finder of SELF that question can only be answered by YOU.

Why should you go to the white light? Why should you not? The question that matters most is this: Will you leave your body as an integrated BEing who knows beyond doubt who and what you are… If you do that where you decide to go after death ought to be an easy choice because you will already know where you are going.

It isn't about how we die but how we live that will determine the choices made at the moment of our transition…. but if one runs foolishly for the first light that crosses your field who would know what they missed?

For me.. I am not interested in going to some created heaven where all my ancestors rollick in fields of grass singing songs to their ancestors.. I can go there now if I choose. And I don't want to be executed by going back to source.. I am sorry but that one really got me.. Source is everything, every where, it is you and I at play in the fields of infinity.. so I don't think source would execute me any more than it would execute itself. The return to the beginning or the return to Source may be our ultimate journey in our spiral of infinity … but we surely won't be annihilated, perhaps we will find we are complete and then who knows what might be next.

All of this discussion is excellent food for thought. Live the life of a Spiritual Warrior, the answers are inside yourSelf.



Impeccability begins with a single act that has to be
deliberate, precise and sustained. If that act is repeated long
enough, one acquires a sense of unbending intent which can be
applied to anything else. If that is accomplished the road is
clear. One thing will lead to another until the warrior realizes
his full potential. ~ Don Juan

[Delight]

I found this on the "Going into light after death... or not?" thread. http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59056-Going-into-light-after-death...-or-not&p=677250&viewfull=1#post677250

I really like what Mark Pierre says and wonder why people do seem to want the scary stories to be true?


The part of you that makes up scary stories doesn't leave the scary stories. It, along with them, fades into the unreal, because they never were real.
That part of you was entirely made up, and the basis of the story you just extricated yourself from. That story is over.
So it was about slavery? Did you learn anything about yourself?

Who in the hell do you think you're not? that you're going to get caught by something outside of totality, and kidnapped.
Doesn't that sound more like a movie plot?
Something that's you is going to capture you and eat your soul.
You won't get highjacked by anything other than your own ideas and fears. I'm sorry. I enjoy them too. We waste time with them.
If you have to stop and search around for the right light, or else you're screwed, you're going to hang around for a long time, because you'll never be sure.
If you had a choice you probably would screw it up. When you do screw it up, it's okay. You always just keep making choices and getting what you ask for.

You've never been alone and unprotected, and you never will be. There's nothing real that defies Reality.
You reject the story of Hell, do you really prefer this one? You don't want to be one of those guys who have to be nursed into realizing they're dead, and that it's okay. God didn't go anywhere, it's still in you. You're still in it. Dying is just waking up from a really weird and unnatural dream.

You think what you want, but I'd just be getting on to perfecting that love in you here, instead of having to distinguish it from all the other love that surrounds you all the time. That really was the point of this sojourn by the way. Finding that thing in you here.
If it isn't something at least that magnanimous, what are you doing in this stupid place? Just figuring it out?

And so you don't need to worry, because you'll probably beat yourself home by the time you die. If anybody is interested in that. Not usually.

I've met too many people who want to remain people, and the best they can do to be that, is to keep looking down. Stay in their stories.
You can give yourself to whatever you want to. Will you give yourself to the unfathomable? That you never really left home? You're still looking in stories.

My best advice to everyone is to look up.

[Agape]

I have no idea at all but want to be fearless. The stories that suggest the traps sound like fear and so I am not interested.

This is a great video for those interested in Tibetan ideas.

iEX5mBqa554




It's been discussed and will be discussed here yet many times and I'd encourage everyone disrespective of their religious backgrounds to get own copy of the Bardo Thodrol for full explanation about the process of dying, visions and lights you may experience . While living or leaving this state of human existence .

While some sources subscribe the book to famous tantric master and ''2nd Buddha' of Tibet ( meaning, second only to Buddha Shakyamuni ) Guru Padmasambhava , in reality and this I know from my own teachers of Nyingma lineage who treasure the text greatly ,
it's much older than Buddhism itself and it was originally passed down through the tradition of Bon that has its life and centre in Tibet, together with some very advanced teachings on the nature of Mind and Reality called the Dzogchen ( roughly translated as the 'great accomplishment teachings' ) and it's true sources are attributed to the primordial teacher Tonpa Sherab Mewoche (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonpa_Shenrab_Miwoche) and the more transcendental Being - Adi Buddha Samantabhadra .


Buddha himself said that like the footprint of elephant is the biggest among all footprints, the greatest of all meditations on impermanence is meditation on death .

I've heard of some Mongolian nuns who went for retreat lasting week or two when they sat next to a corpse and observed the process of disintegration.

It's one of those 'things' that's bound to happen and none of us is really happy about watching it .

But the fact itself that it's bound to happen makes it equally realistic and attractive object of contemplation .


I remember how my first spiritual guru ( though he was not alive at that time anymore, passed away in 1950 or so ) Ramana Maharishi achieved profound spiritual realisation as a young boy when he was resting on bed one day and imagined he's actually passed away, his body being taken for cremation and so forth.
He's got instant liberation from attachment to his body by using his vivid imagination and intuiting this process ..
all his life changed since then .. from mischievous boy who was picky about food and occupied by games to one of natural meditator and profound thinker who became known as 'great sage' ( Maha Rishi ) in later years of life .
Not to be confused with Maharishi Transcendental Meditation who learned how to jump/levitate on mats and chant 'secret mantras' .

There is also quite famous book from Sogyal Rimpoche who still lives in France I believe , on the topic , called 'The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying ' .

http://www.holybooks.com/wp-content/uploads/The-Tibetan-Book-of-Living-and-Dying.pdf

http://www.holybooks.com/wp-content/uploads/The-Tibetan-Book-of-Living-and-Dying.pdf


The uniqueness of the author and the book .. is in that him and his students, some well trained western psychologists , nurses and social care workers who trained with him actually went to the hospices , and hospitals to assist people on their death beds and I can't imagine how much goodness they created by doing so,
especially for those who remain lonely in their last days and full of sadness about lost lives .
They describe some of it in the book and how difficult it is to address the topic and make people face it or open themselves to talking about it , in relax mode, in our 'western cultures' ..and I think , most of us have some experience with how even mentioning this experience about dying is not welcome with many people and they prefer to give in to their 'deserved grief' and emotions instead ..

so talk about the millions who went to 'white light' , allegedly .

I doubt that even in the old aboriginal cultures everyone went 'there' or knew what are they going to experience, except for the shaman and his family perhaps ,
most other people feared death the same way todays people do , even more, accidents, wars and sacrifices were also common which altogether means violent deaths and no time to get ready .

Egyptian culture had a cult of dead and afterlife that was extremely well preserved and rich and important to them .

Other than that , from referenced history , there's only one culture I know of who pay thorough attention to the process and have this great Book of Liberation by Transference ( the Bardo Thodrol ) that exposes every part of your mind, processes you may encounter, differences between those various 'lights' , apparitions, states of Mind and guides you through it from the beginning to the end .

Possibly every dying or dead person in Tibetan history happened to be read the text .

Did it change something ? I believe so. The treasure of wisdom teachings, both natural , inborn and acquired .. shared among Tibetan people is incredibly deep and vast .
They had to face very hard fate to this day , survived some of the harshest climates and were almost wiped out of the earth by those communist , atheistic , chinese haters .
They're not 'all enlightened' but the percentage of enlightened individuals among Tibetan populace , or generally, people of deep wisdom is certainly much higher than anywhere on this planet . Similarly, they've adopted the Compassion teachings as their chief practise , mantra and motivation and it's shaped them as nation over generations to present day .

What makes me really sad is watching this world where individual human life comes to have as little value as one of lab rat , and unless you're so lucky to have some sort of great and intelligent family , it's easy to end up alone , live alone and die alone.
Millions of people are dying in wars, hospitals , somewhere .. and who cares about their soul journey .

Of course, late is not too late but I liked Christines post the most .. we have to care of who we are , here and now, no matter what you call it .

While at the Tibetan culture .. I remember one book I loved that is a collection of Bon Dzogchen teachings , and a quote that remained in my mind for long time ..it sounded like this :

Day birds have great Eagle eyes and Night Birds have deep Owl Eyes but to the fast and steady horse on his track , Day and Night look one and the same ...


Oh well. Wishing us all great realisations and accomplishments .



:pray:

[Synchronicity]

Yes, the idea that we are alone just isn't true. We always have so much guidance and help around us...always. We choose to experience it or to live alone in fear. I agree that looking up and looking inside make the whole difference in life. I see people moving from fear to joy, and letting that fear go makes the difference between being afraid and never growing or healing and living a wonderful, full life. It isn't whether you see a light or walk off a ship as I saw an elderly ex-Navy man do, whether you see grass and trees, your loved ones, your dog, or you simply slip off into the place to heal and find out what is next for you. Our journey doesn't have to be one of low level energy and fear. It's what goes on inside us...what our experience is...what do we learn we can do and be, whether we risk it or huddle in the corner afraid to speak or think that counts.

It isn't about what this group or that society says, and it's not what any secret documents say that matters. It's what is in your heart, mind, what your intent in this universe is, whether you are who you are here to be, and the mark you leave when you move on after this life that matters. What you see when you die isn't the point either. It's what you do before you die and after you die that matters. Do we learn and move on? Move up? Or have to come back and redo the whole thing from another perspective because we didn't pay attention the million times we had the opportunity to move on? We definitely can shift our vibrations up if we are ready and open to it, but they can shift down if we get mired in what really doesn't matter.

Just my view...do we concentrate on the lower energy and get sucked into all the distractions of secrets and what might happen, into the fear that is blown at us from all angles, or do we look up, look forward, and work on ourselves? Why not see light? Why not step out into the sunlight and bask in it? Why not reach for the moon and stars and feel earth beneath our feet? Who cares what games secret groups are playing? Wouldn't it be sad if someone told us all to not go into the light and that was the whole point of being here? I'm not saying it is, but listen to your inner wisdom, your guides, and embrace your shadows since they are your strengths! That is what the journey is about, I personally think, and our core selves are who stays with us over lifetimes and is the most important.

Okay...sorry I went on there...I will stop now. But don't let all the lower energy pull you in is what I would say. :)

[ghostrider]

robert morningsky also said , don't go to the light, it's a trap to reprogram us before we re-incarnate ... neat trap , you feel love , and are drawn to it ...

[cursichella1]

One way to look at this is to consider that, let's say for the last 10,000 years, there hasn't been much more than one iota of improvement on Earth from any of these dudes that went into that white light... when back on the ground... How come?

See?

10,000 years of prayers, hopes, incense burning, sacrifices, immolations, etc... and have a good look at where we are at.... I don't know about anyone else but I find that such an end result is an indication that there is something terribly not quite right.
This is more than wrong...it is almost blindness.
How many people do you think have been helped just by NDE reporting alone...where this light is mentioned...there are thousands of books out there...research is taking place.
There are videos and books all over the internet of how this experience has improved the way people think and have changed dramatically, for the better, since these experiences.

I hope you have one soon so you can get enwhitened...I mean enlightened :)

The fact that so many are being reported now doesn't necessarily make it a positive thing. I'm sure most that report near death experiences are sincere, but think about all of the deception going on. Would it be difficult for a negative entity to project a Disney in the nethers to a vulnerable human (physically very ill, chakras shot, spiritually on the fence)? Seems to me that time could be one of the easiest? Maybe a trap to keep us here. If one consents to following a negative's suggestion to go where they've been nudged to go, what law bypasses that consent and forces one to graduate to a higher realms?

Or this could be total disinfo to keep one from graduating to higher realms? Can one really know before they "know"? Until that time, the safest bet seems to be a non-stop return to Source, bypassing any distractions and pretty colors en route. I don't like the odds on choosing between the other two. Is there anything about a return to Source that could be wrong?

[Finefeather]

I'm convinced, from the records of antiquity, that the Golden Light is the light to seek. If one considers most of the earliest civilizations of Humanity were Sun Worshipers, it only stands to reason the Golden Light of the sun is the exit from the matrix.



Actually the suns light is white...all you have to do is use some prisms and you will notice it's pure white light.
the Sun is white, not yellow.


It feels YELLOW :)
That's only because you are so mellow....yellow :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrbni0tVBZ8

[Ealiss]

My first thought on reading this thread was, how odd to find this fine group of people taking sides on whether to go to the white light or not… Um, I think, I wonder what have we learned? Who determines where one goes after death of the body. You? Your mother? Your father in heaven? The ones who went before you? Your local implanters?

It seems self evident to me that by living a life of purpose, a seeker of TRUE knowledge… and finder of SELF that question can only be answered by YOU.

Why should you go to the white light? Why should you not? The question that matters most is this: Will you leave your body as an integrated BEing who knows beyond doubt who and what you are… If you do that where you decide to go after death ought to be an easy choice because you will already know where you are going.

It isn't about how we die but how we live that will determine the choices made at the moment of our transition…. but if one runs foolishly for the first light that crosses your field who would know what they missed?

For me.. I am not interested in going to some created heaven where all my ancestors rollick in fields of grass singing songs to their ancestors.. I can go there now if I choose. And I don't want to be executed by going back to source.. I am sorry but that one really got me.. Source is everything, every where, it is you and I at play in the fields of infinity.. so I don't think source would execute me any more than it would execute itself. The return to the beginning or the return to Source may be our ultimate journey in our spiral of infinity … but we surely won't be annihilated, perhaps we will find we are complete and then who knows what might be next.

All of this discussion is excellent food for thought. LIve the life of a Spiritual Warrior, the answers are inside yourSelf.



Impeccability begins with a single act that has to be
deliberate, precise and sustained. If that act is repeated long
enough, one acquires a sense of unbending intent which can be
applied to anything else. If that is accomplished the road is
clear. One thing will lead to another until the warrior realizes
his full potential. ~ Don Juan

I understand how you feel about the execution and it is a misunderstanding. I should have explained it differently. I am what people call a Spirit Warrior. In spirit I fight negative entities. I was helping a fellow psychic one day (a stranger in a facebook forum) and I went to her home (remote viewing) and saw a negative spirit. I explained how this woman looked etc. It was the ex mother in law who hated her intensely and had passed. This woman was hurting her in her sleep and causing horrible nights for her. She was jaded. So I went there and fought this woman and the cats went CRAZY. She said it felt like a scary movie. So something was happening. So basically, I fight negative beings in many different ways. And that is why "going to the creator" to me is the same as giving up your soul forever. Because if I see a soul going there, it is to ask for death. To be exterminated. I have brought souls to a place that people would call Hell (I am not religious AT all but it helps to explain it). It has gates. It has darker souls that guard it. I was later told by what people would call a demon, visiting as a diplomatic envoy, that I should be careful delivering souls to "hell" because it is better that others decide and not me, in case I misjudge a situation at some point.

Basically you are right. If an ordinary soul wants to just visit the creator and say hi, then you will meet those who "guard" as a kind of translators and you will be able to try and ask questions. But the creator is more of a ... in lack of a better word... a person. It is not a place. I went and said hi, but human speak isn't really all that effective there, it seems. I got an answer but... It is much better just to ask a spirit. What people see as "angels". And in a footnote the "angels" asked me not to call them that because the bible is only 2000 years old. A new book. Even if you count the old testament... it is still new compared to earth.... and it has no right to "own" the angels. They are much, much older and don't belong to a religion.

So I stand corrected. I was thinking of crime and punishment because that is part of my work in the spirit world. In my experience people who want to die, go to the creator and ask for it. But of course you can go out of curiosity with a list of questions. I'd forgotten and am happy to be reminded and corrected. My bad.

As for the description of what people tend to call "Heaven", then it is not a place you have to go. I guess you can call it a train station in the sky. You go there to check in. To make sure you passed over properly. After that you can go anywhere you want. I do. But it is complicated to explain. Some people choose to stay and tend their gardens. Some choose to go and get an education. There are also different jobs you can choose to have. I remember helping soldiers who died in the battlefield as they passed, and they were often alone and scared and filled with dramatic emotions and understandably so. I was one of many who helped them pass and helped work with them after, to make them see life a bit more positively again. But there's lots going on there. You can fly. So I remember flying across the golden sunset waves of a coastline, looking at the birds, the trees, everything and loving earth so deeply. I remember thinking that no matter how horrid earth life could be, I needed to come back to try and help earth survive. Do my little bit, any old way I could.

[Ealiss]

After just writing a long reply to a member on this topic I decided that perhaps I should add some of that reply here. Because there is so much fear of the afterlife and a wish to know how much power the different aliens and evil entities have over us when we die.

So here it goes. I know I have no proof, but neither do any of the gurus. This is based on what I have seen and learned and remember as well as some details I have learned from a variety of sources, while reading up on Egypt and so forth.

People fear the... reptiles, the gray men, the Annunaki and Hathor.... the government... But on the other side, these have no power. Maybe that is something that isn't talked about... and how can people know if they don't "walk in both worlds". If you imagine earth life as a school yard then the Annunaki / Hathor are the bullies that dunk the first graders heads in the toilet bowl and in this case, much worse. BUT.... even though it seems like the school principal doesn't care... then that is because people do not realize who the true school principal is. It is you - me - all of humanity. Us. We decide as a group. Our souls are part of a democracy as a soul group. Not a dictatorship with a god that resides over us. Granted, that mother earth can get so sick n tired of us that she can explode or remove the air that is still left and just kill us, but... other than that... we are part of a soul group who decide together.

So why is the world hell? Because it is! It also has love and great things but there is so much evil that it boggles the mind. WHY? Well, I've been thinking about that a lot. It is hell for so many because humans are not really complete. We are "half human" right now. When we were created as a "blueprint" in the angelic form (no actual wings - that is creative license) we were just as smart and all knowing as angels and could do all sorts of things. We were also pretty much immortal. And then we lost it. We didn't know why. We became "half brained" humans full of fear and fear led to hate, and for some, hate led to abuse. Which is where we are now. At the bottom of the barrel of hate and fear and destruction.
Add to the mix the reptiles (who were killed recently according to Chris Thomas, which is why politicians don't have the same sway over us as they used to.) - and also add the evil Annunaki / Hathor and the evil Lord Sananda stuff to try and steal earth from us and get us all killed. Not an easy thing to fight for us as individuals.

EDIT: (Need to add): All those cries for help have been heard. All that pain has been noticed by the collective. We do know that things are horrendous! And that it cannot go on. Which is why we had a talk with mother earth who loves us despite of ourselves, - and decided to change everything. On a higher level (where most of our brain is hiding in the subconscious) we are already heading into the big change. Partly because of earth having gone into a new cycle, and partly because of the added vibration change.

That means we are doing important work now as a human collective. On a higher level. All of you matter tremendously. Your opinion matters more than you know. If you decide that you want the evil Annunaki / Hathor to stay on earth then they will linger much longer than they should. (They have already been given an eviction notice. The universe has put their brothers and sisters in indefinate quaranteene. So make no mistake - this is life or death for them and WE are their enemy.) They need to go. Stop telling the Lord Sananda (Annunaki) that he can land, please. These beings are part of the worst things that are happening on earth.

As a human collective, with earths vibration going up to a positive energy (think of a positive song) and there will no longer be room for evil energies. Hang in there, help get to the positive, tell the negative to go away, and you will be helping earth and our greater collective tremendously.

My 2 cents I know. But for what it's worth. Keep your own power do not give it away.

I recommend that you listen to Penney Pierce on how we are reaching a higher vibration on Youtube for example.

[araucaria]

Dang I could use a smoke, anybody gotta light?
Just done a forum search:

Sorry - no matches
:)

[greybeard]

There is so much positive evidence regarding NDE.
In particular the brain surgeon Eben Alexander's turn around regarding what happens in the brain in NDE.
Oh well we will find out soon enough.

Chris

Deleted (name) as it is no longer relevant.
The thread stands on its own as a valid question to be answered as best we can.

Chris

[Finefeather]

Simon Se-krap has it back to front.
There is so much positive evidence regarding NDE.
In particular the brain surgeon Eben Alexander's turn around regarding what happens in the brain in NDE.
Oh well we will find out soon enough.

Chris
I think the Eben Alexander story is quite exciting and I send it to as many people as I think will be responsive.

And...Yes Chris...I guess you and I are quite far along the queue to finding out...again...just how beautiful the transition is going to be...can't wait :)
That is of course assuming we don't live forever here on "the prison planet" :)

Anyway I'm ready for any action along the way...like ducking out of sight of the archons...and using my special reflector to avoid the "soul catcher beam":)

Love to you brother
Ray

[heyokah]

It's been discussed and will be discussed here yet many times and I'd encourage everyone disrespective of their religious backgrounds to get own copy of the Bardo Thodrol for full explanation about the process of dying, visions and lights you may experience . While living or leaving this state of human existence .



Hallo agape, thank you for your post, which gives me an opportunity to say something about the Bardo Thodol.
We are discussing here the different Lights that can be seen at the moment of transition and their 'realms' they could lead to, which by many is seen as fear mongering.

I've been a student of quite some Buddhist teachers during my life, among which Sogyal Rimpoche the pupil of Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche (http://www.lerabling.org/index.php/lang-en/sogyal-rinpoche/sogyal-rinpoches-teachers/dilgo-khyentse-rinpoche), which was my first teacher.
So I happen to be familiar with the Tibetan Book of the Dead (Bardo Thodol) and Sogyal's version, which is more suitable to the Western world, The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying.


Reading the Bardos again, I can't see much difference in, what some members would call, 'fear mongering' between the Bardos and the insights of Robert Morning Star.
I will show you some Lights and Realms that are told to be there.... (I'm taking parts out of the text here, skipping most of the instructions as one can read them for one selves.)

****

1. The First Bardo Afterlife Realm
The first bardo comes at the very moment of death, when there dawns the Clear Light of the Ultimate Reality.
This is the very content and substance of the state of liberation, if only the soul can recognize it and act in a way to remain in that state.
The instructions intended to be read at the moment of the person's death are designed to help him do this.

Most souls, however, will fail to do this. They will be pulled down by the weight of their karma into the second stage of the first bardo, called the Secondary Clear Light seen immediately after death.

2. The Second Bardo
If the soul is still not liberated at this stage, it will descend into the second bardo, which is said to last for two weeks. The second bardo is also divided into two parts; in the first, the soul of the deceased encounters what are referred to as "the Peaceful Deities.

-On the first day of the second bardo, there appears to the soul the divine Father-Mother - that is, the supreme deity of the universe, transcending all dualities, including the division into sexes
-On the second day, there appears the second-highest God in the Buddhist pantheon - in fact, he is actually the Second Person in the literal Buddhist Holy Trinity.
At the same time, there dawns a smoky light from hell; and here we note that, just as the Buddhist heaven is not a permanent, eternal state, neither is its hell.
Even the most wretched souls will eventually work their way out of even the deepest pit of hell, just as even the highest and purest souls will eventually lose their footing in heaven and descend again into the cycle of death and rebirth.
Liberation is the only way out.
Once again, if the soul responds to the "dazzling white light" of the second God with the joy of a pure heart, he will be liberated thereby; but if he specifically reacts with ANGER from having indulged in this vice on Earth, he will recoil from the light in fear and be drawn into hell.
- On the third day; this time it is the fault if egotism that will cause the soul to react to the God with fear, and he will be drawn to the human world, where his next incarnation will thereby take place.
- On the fourth day dawns the God of Eternal Life; if the soul has a negative reaction to him because of miserliness and attachment, he will be drawn toward rebirth in the Preta-Loka, a world of "hungry ghosts" who have huge stomachs and throats the size of pinholes, and so they wander about in a constant state of unsatisfied ravenous desire.
-On the fifth day comes God in the form of an Almighty Conqueror; this time it's jealousy that will unseat the soul, and he will be born into the Asura-Loka, a world of fierce warrior-deities (or demons).
-On the sixth day all the deities return and dawn together, along with the lights from all six Lokas.
-On the seventh day there appear the Knowledge-Holding Deities, who are more fierce and demonic-looking than those that have previously dawned; and in fact they are sort of a transitional element to the next stage of the second bardo, where the soul encounters the wrathful deities.

Meanwhile, if because of stupidity the soul cannot face the Knowledge-Holding Deities, he is drawn toward the Brute-Loka - that is, he will be reborn on Earth as an animal.

In the second week of the second bardo, the soul meets seven legions of Wrathful Deities: hideous, terrifying demons who advance upon him with flame and sword, drinking blood from human skulls, threatening to wreak unmerciful torture upon him, to maim, disembowel, decapitate and slay him.
The natural tendency, of course, is for the soul to attempt to flee from these beings in stark, screaming, blood-curdled terror;but if he does, all is lost.

(Again, I left out the instructions.)

3. The Third Bardo
In the third bardo the soul encounters the Lord of Death, a fearsome demonic deity who appears in smoke and fire, and subjects the soul to a Judgment.
If the dead person protests that he has done no evil, the Lord of Death holds up before him the Mirror of Karma, "wherein every good and evil act is vividly reflected."
Now demons approach and begin to inflict torments and punishments upon the soul for his evil deeds.

The instructions in the Bardo Thodol are for him to attempt to recognize the Voidness of all these beings, including the Lord of Death himself; the dead person is told that this entire scene unfolding around him is a projection from his own mind.
Even here he can attain liberation by recognizing this.

The soul who is still not liberated after the Judgment will now be drawn remorselessly toward rebirth.

The lights of the six Lokas will dawn again; into one of these worlds the soul must be born, and the light of the one he is destined for will shine more brightly than the others.

The soul is still experiencing the frightening apparitions and sufferings of the third bardo, and he feels that he will do anything to escape from this condition.
He will seek shelter in what appear to be caves or hiding-places, but which are actually the entrances to wombs.
He is warned of this by the text of the Bardo Thodol, and urged not to enter them, but to meditate upon the Clear Light instead; for it is still possible for him to achieve the third degree of liberation and avoid rebirth.

Finally there comes a point where it is no longer possible to attain liberation, and after this the soul is given instructions on how to choose the best womb for a favorable incarnation.

The basic method is non-attachment:to try to rise above both attraction to worldly pleasures and repulsion from worldly ills.

The final words of the Bardo Thodol are: "Let virtue and goodness be perfected in every way."

-

"Be not fond of the dull smoke-colored light from hell." - Tibetan Book of the Dead

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/buddhism01.html


From "Death"
The Stages of the
Bardo of Becoming

For most beings, the lights that appear now are pale in comparison to the vivid lights of the bardo of dharmata.

When we see them, we will naturally feel drawn to one more than others.
However, the instruction at this time is to refrain from allowing ourselves to be drawn into any one of these states.

The white light that appears is associated with the realm of the gods, the red light with the realm of the jealous gods, the blue light with the human realm, the green light with the animal realm, the yellow light with the hungry ghost realm, and the dark, fog-like light with the hell realm.

http://www.ralphmag.org/FJ/ponlop-reading.html

:faint:

[araucaria]

As I recall, one thing Simon said about the light what made it highly suspect was that it was being pushed by Hollywood. I’m sure he has other reasons as well for saying what he says, but Hollywood is also a source of partial disclosure and there are no doubt several levels to this.

There are also several levels to Simon himself owing to his triple roots, and it cannot be easy being one third reptilian. Maybe we need to learn more about how he integrates that part of himself and processes it. His own makeup is the very embodiment of a three-way struggle. Think of the simpler case of a German citizen who was a UK resident during World War II. They would have been seen as a potential traitor by both sides because the wartime mentality of black-and-white patriotism could not get its head round the notion of a peace-loving German anglophile. For they might have been a real agent (or double agent) under the innocent disguise of a peace-loving German anglophile. This was a difficult situation for all concerned. This is how Simon’s credibility comes on the line, even for people for whom his genuine caring and other qualities are not in doubt.

[Limor Wolf]

Simon Se-krap has it back to front.
There is so much positive evidence regarding NDE.
In particular the brain surgeon Eben Alexander's turn around regarding what happens in the brain in NDE.
Oh well we will find out soon enough.

Chris

And there is so much positive evidence regarding everything to do with our earth, Chris, but you know as well as everyone else here that not everything that shines is a genuine gold. Technological development in medicine can yield good results, People can get better with transplants in a system that in itself makes the people chronically ill, they will surely be happy to take this result.. think about it. One may cancel the understanding that our planet is under alien influence at all, one may refuse to believe that there is life outside of this place, (and I am sorry, I do not know where you yourself stand with that). Many things on this earth which are not serving the best potential of human beings are hidden under a glitzy and ilusory appearence. Not every truth will be found in scriptures or be voiced by any one wise man or another, because there is a lot that was taken from us with regards to the freedom of our physical body-machines and left us with limited ability for perceptiveness of this endless incarnational recycle of reality (not unlike a hamster on a wheel), therefore no real liberation when it comes to information or knowing where we live. so while we peel the layers from our densed existance into a more lighter version of ourself, surely it is affordable to keep an open mind as well as attantive ear for those who just might, by their personal experience be able to grasp that which is beyond our ability to see, such as Simon, without any necessity to accept what he says as the real truth, maybe simply just ponder.

It may be worth it if we examine with great care such information if it is our true desire to expand ourselvs as human beings, becuase there are many frames to this reality besides this one and as oppose to what you wrote, we may not at all get the chance to find out soon enough, since we have and had this chance many times already, and we always take the bait.. a lot of our dreams are being shattered at this time, but new visions of reality are emerging and consider everything with an open mind is not stupidity but a virtue.

All the best to you,

Limor

[Hervé]

In my view, and in seeing the widespread publicity for, and MSM "success" of, NDEs (i.e. not hindered nor suppressed), me think somebody is doing some heavy recruiting for ... something.

Here is the rationale from "Remote Viewing"'s grandaddy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingo_Swann):


The third part begins with a presentation of certain social phenomena regarding the problems of telepathy that can be factually identified. These, however, set the background for the strange and surprising scenario they lead into, although the scenario is admittedly speculative in nature. Some have advised me not to publish this book - on the grounds that it challenges those echelons of conventional credibility that lasciviously get off on deconstructing those unfortunates who experience what they can’t prove.

I have been mindful of this opportunistic factor for several decades. But my age is advancing and I have become interested in recording and wrapping up my active research into Psi phenomena in order to pursue less stressful vistas. As I have discussed in other writings, I have always been interested in Psi phenomena, and beginning in 1970 it chanced that opportunities to extend that interest in depth were made available. Anyone with more than a mere superficial interest in Psi phenomena must of course encounter the rather smelly morass of social resistance whereby the authenticity of those phenomena are methodically deconstructed, thus suspending them in doubt.

This social resistance, even if smelly, has largely been successful in destroying all concerted approaches to Psi phenomena. This success is specifically active within high strata of societal power, and which strata are otherwise entirely disinterested in what lesser mortals DO experience along these lines. Why it is that governing societal factors need to deconstruct the provable existence of at least some vital Psi phenomena is therefore something that needs to be examined and understood.

Along these lines of inquiry, the existence and methods of the machinations against Psi development can easily be brought to light. But the reasons that govern the implementation of the machinations none the less remain obscured.

Thus, the societal resistance to Psi breaks neatly into two aspects:

· to prevent Psi development

· to keep obscure the actual reasons for doing so
One reason for the blanket suppression which has been offered up by many before me is that effective formats of Psi would disturb any number of social institutions. Those institutions would feel “threatened” by developed formats of, say, telepathy, which might thereafter be utilized to penetrate their secrets.

There is some rather clear truth in this. Indeed, it is because of this truth that some echelons of humans are at war with the Psi potentials of the human species - because those echelons have motivations they would prefer never to be disclosed via Psi penetration. If this is the case, the chief preventive measure would be to stamp out altogether any real understanding of Psi. Indeed, something like this has taken place. And their cognizance of the nature of the situation might remain - more or less being defined as humans in conflict with their own Psi potentials because Psi penetrates secrets.

Indeed, on my part for a long time I assumed that this was the beginning and end of the story regarding the methodical suppression of Psi by high societal echelons - such as represented by government, science, academe and media. As it happened, however, the events described in Part One of this book occurred beginning in 1975. These are the events I can’t prove. None the less they made somewhat visible another possible aspect that might be factored into the odoriferous suppression of Psi that was already familiar to me.

This aspect required that I introduce two unusual terms: Earth-side and Space-side.

These refer, of course, to Earth-side intelligence and Space-side intelligence. The central hypothesis of this book is that, if developed, Psi potentials would be an invasive threat to Earth-side intelligences; then, developed Earth-side Psi would also be a threat to Space-side intelligences. After all, in that telepathy, for example, is invasively defined as reading minds, the distinction between reading Earth-side minds and Space-side minds would be very narrow.

The only real problem in considering this is whether or not Space-siders exist.

I have decided not to enter into the relevant debate about this issue, but direct the reader to the copious literature already existing, with special regard to the weekly UFO ROUND-UP that can be located in the Internet (see bibliography).

The inclusion in this book of the story I can't prove is not being offered as evidence about the existence of Space-side intelligence, but because the reader deserves to know why I have concluded there is far more to telepathy than commonly conceived in Earth-side terms. In this, the thinking proceeds from actual experience and not from analyzing the Information packages presented in the works of others.

The works of others, of course, have proved to be valuable in the long run, and they certainly introduce a modicum of authenticity that would otherwise go completely missing. In the end, though, the authenticity of my personal, improvable, experience probably doesn’t need to be considered all that much - because the drift of accumulating information is inexorably leading to establishing the authentic existence of extraterrestrial intelligences anyway.

One factor that won’t be apparent throughout this book is the large amount of time (years actually) it took to achieve the synthesis of the factors presented. I tend to be a rather slow thinker, and am sometimes even slower on the up-take. I had originally intended to include a lengthy discussion regarding the probability that telepathy might be a universal “language” system of some kind that operates through consciousness entities everywhere.

I briefly allude to this in Part Three, but otherwise have decided to include that discussion in another work - because it needs a larger information basis that includes the nature of energy organisms.

But I feel obliged to comment on some of the reasons I decided to go ahead with the book after so many years have passed. In late 1990, I read a well-documented report of a large UFO craft sighted in the former USSR. The report indicated that the sighting was attested to by General Igor Maltsev, chief of the main staff of Air Defense Forces, and published in Tabochaya Tribuna, 29, dated April 1990.

The report quoted General Maltsev as saying:

“I am not a specialist on UFOs and therefore I can only correlate the data and express my own supposition. According to the evidence of these eyewitnesses, the UFO is a disk with a diameter from 100 to 200 meters. Two pulsating lights were positioned on its sides..."
The article went on to state that UFOs are piloted craft and contradicted the suggestion that they are mere atmospheric phenomena. If the sighted craft was indeed 200 meters, it was about 650 feet, or somewhat larger than a football field.

Meanwhile, there were other notable sightings elsewhere and video footage was being obtained regarding a lot of them. Such reports got me ruminating about my 1975 experiences, with the result that I decided to write them down before my memory began deteriorating more than it already had.

Between 1976 and 1990, I gradually concluded that Earth-siders and Space-siders didn’t seem to have much in common - with the exception of telepathy. By all contactee (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/alien_contact.htm) and abductee (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/alien_abductionabductees.htm) accounts, telepathic capacities seem to be well-developed by the ET’s, but remained quite undeveloped Earth-side. I expanded the narration of the events to include some fundamental considerations of telepathy, and which theorized WHY development of telepathy is suppressed Earth-side.

In due course, I showed the manuscript to my then literary rep, who got excited about it, and thought that its successful publication was a sure and easy thing.

Over twenty publishers turned it down - even in the face of the fact that much UFO-ET stuff ranging from bulls**t to the sublime fantastic was otherwise being published everywhere.

This blanket rejection on such a large scale remains, as it were, mysterious. Perhaps it can be interpreted as some kind of subtle, large-scale media control.

But one possible explanation might be that as outrageous as the tale and telepathic considerations are, something in them moves too close to Someone’s comfort.

In any event, because of frustration, embarrassment, etc., I abandoned this book project. And some more years passed. In about March, 1998, however, certain articles and TV reports centering on ET possibilities began circulating, among which were a few entitled “Astonishing Intelligent Artifacts (?) Found On Mysterious Far Side Of The Moon (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/luna/esp_luna_35.htm).”

Then, via a report in the Internet authored by David Derbyshire, dated May 14, 1998, it seems that a “24,000 mph UFO” buzzed Britain on May 13, 1998. THIS craft was tracked by the Royal Air Force and the Dutch Air Force. It was “triangular” and “as big as a battleship. About 900 feet long. British and Dutch interceptors were sent aloft.

The Big Thing left them in the mists - and went who knows where?

Thus, there are recent authentic reports of UFOs, and indeed they seem present everywhere, and even boldly reveal themselves to the lenses of Camcorders world-wide. That the UFOs are driven or managed by Space-side intelligences (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_flyingobjects.htm) simply must be taken for granted.

And if they have achieved high technological control of consciousness that is commensurate with the high technology of their craft, then I'll bet they are very good at what we Earth-siders refer to as telepathy.

[thunder24]

Dang I could use a smoke, anybody gotta light?
Just done a forum search:

Sorry - no matches
:)
Maybe try: Love and Lighters

[Finefeather]

In my view, and in seeing the widespread publicity for, and MSM "success" of, NDEs (i.e. not hindered nor suppressed), me think somebody is doing some heavy recruiting for ... something.

After reading the long drawn out quote from your post above, I am not sure what your point is with regards to 'avoiding the white light' here but I'll take a guess at what you are trying to say:

<The suppression of some paranormal phenomena...called psi and telepathy in this article you posted...is held 'secret' or at bay from 'outsiders' to prevent the revelation of ….'government's' and or 'those in charge's'...secrets and plans for us lowly humans...so we cannot know what they are up to.
So the fact that main stream media (YouTube been 1) 'publishes' stories of NDE's...it must be logical therefore to assume that NDE's are some form of smoke screen...to lead everyone away from the real juicy facts.>

If this is what you mean then:
I think this is a very narrow way of looking at life and is the makings of just another conspiracy theory to satisfy the needs of ignorant people who have no means of coming to any other conclusion.

Suspicion is one thing but when the imagination joins in we sure can have some fun...don't you think?

Everyone on this planet is not totally stupid.

I also do not see what effect NDEs could have on the 'heavies in charge' because, probably all of the revelation and progress that comes from this source ends up in people changing for the better in terms of their general outlook and their dealings with people. There is no one who comes back from an NDE and brings with them a blueray disk with all the secrets of the government :)

Progress has very little to do with finding out what the 'enemy' is up to...and everything to do with consciousness growth to improve and spread the need for love amongst us...and the call for unity...and NDE's certainly contribute to that.

[Synchronicity]

Well, all I can say is that it is really easy to tie ourselves in knots and convince ourselves of just about anything. Sure, there are many conspiracies, but the biggest control anyone could ever have one anyone is to convince him or her not to trust himself. My NDE was what it was. I don't care what mainstream whatever says, I don't care what plots are being hatched, and (I have seen some things relating to higher ups in smokey rooms hatching plans) I refuse to live my life in fear. Whatever any announcement says, I am here now doing work that helps people. I firmly believe that what matters is what our intention is and what we choose to do to contribute to this universe, not whatever low level garbage is going on. Whether humans were brought here, chased here, imprisoned here, or created here we are here and can deny who we are and cringe for fear of being tricked or we can live and do our best. Whether this relates to Atlantis, pyramids, or whatever it relates to I am happy to consider knowledge, but will keep trying to make a difference in my little corner of the universe.

Once again I agree with Finefeather. :)

[Hervé]

Let's see,

Ad Hominem --- Checked

Ridicule-------- Checked

Dismissive ----- Checked

Belittling ------ Checked

[Synchronicity]

Let's see,

Ad Hominem --- Checked

Ridicule-------- Checked

Dismissive ----- Checked

Belittling ------ Checked

Did you mean my post? Just clarifying. If so I was speaking for myself and not what others think or do. It isn't my place to tell anyone else what is right for them...just saying what feels right to me. To each his own, of course.

[Jake]

I can draw a parallel between the 'seeing of the white light' to the scene in '2001 A Space Odyssey',, where the monkeys come across the Monolith.. (not calling anyone a monkey!! :) ) The monkeys had absolutely no idea what it was that they had come across.. Yet they were completely awestruck by the 'new potential' that had invaded their existence.. The profound impact on them, and the sharp direction that their minds took,, caused a new way of thinking,, albeit very subtle. Yet it became the most important moment in history, regarding self realization. This becomes true, with regards folks who have experienced an NDE... it becomes the most profound and transformative experience of their lives....

I live a double life... I travel out of my body so much that very often, the lines are blurred... Christine is right. What matters is NOW!

There are all sorts Amazing and personally profound events that you open yourself up to, once one has embraced the Astral.. The white light is 'sudden', and seems to be an NDE thing. Not that I have not experienced the same sort of thing. I have had a relationship with the most wonderful white 'healing' light,, for some time now. The first time I experienced it,, it was quite intense and I could barely sustain consciousness. It is still an intense experience, but bearable... It may or may not be the same White light,,, I don't know. I am suspicious only because there is SOOOO MUCH to experience on the other side,,, I get to wondering why the 'white light' is so very prevalent in NDE's. There are sooooo many other things to experience... If the white light means 'death',, then I have died manymany times, in this single life!!!

People seem to liken the white light unto 'heaven' or 'angelic'... I believe both of those to be states of being,,,, rather than 'places', and a 'white light' is irrelevant..

I'll echo it again,,, What matters is right here right now,,, As far as the white light goes,,, we will see..

Jake

[Synchronicity]

I can draw a parallel between the 'seeing of the white light' to the scene in '2001 A Space Odyssey',, where the monkeys come across the Monolith.. (not calling anyone a monkey!! :) ) The monkeys had absolutely no idea what it was that they had come across.. Yet they were completely awestruck by the 'new potential' that had invaded their existence.. The profound impact on them, and the sharp direction that their minds took,, caused a new way of thinking,, albeit very subtle. Yet it became the most important moment in history, regarding self realization. This becomes true, with regards folks who have experienced an NDE... it becomes the most profound and transformative experience of their lives....

I live a double life... I travel out of my body so much that very often, the lines are blurred... Christine is right. What matters is NOW!

There are all sorts Amazing and personally profound events that you open yourself up to, once one has embraced the Astral.. The white light is 'sudden', and seems to be an NDE thing. Not that I have not experienced the same sort of thing. I have had a relationship with the most wonderful white 'healing' light,, for some time now. The first time I experienced it,, it was quite intense and I could barely sustain consciousness. It is still an intense experience, but bearable... It may or may not be the same White light,,, I don't know. I am suspicious only because there is SOOOO MUCH to experience on the other side,,, I get to wondering why the 'white light' is so very prevalent in NDE's. There are sooooo many other things to experience... If the white light means 'death',, then I have died manymany times, in this single life!!!

People seem to liken the white light unto 'heaven' or 'angelic'... I believe both of those to be states of being,,,, rather than 'places', and a 'white light' is irrelevant..

I'll echo it again,,, What matters is right here right now,,, As far as the white light goes,,, we will see..

Jake

I understand the blurring..yes. And you make good points. I guess that is what I was thinking in that what we do this moment is, in the long run, what matters. And in that next moment when it's here and on and on. I agree that the universe is much more than it appears to be and we can be/do much more than we are usually taught. The wonders are amazing and the light is amazing as well. That is my experience, anyway.