David Wilcock update

[Robin]

David Wilcock update via Benjamin Fulford blog 28 October, 2013 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?64908-Benjamin-Fulford-28-October-2013):



"I have been able to independently confirm, from insiders, what Ben said last week about JP Morgan having been sold to the Chinese. Very significant events are going on right now, and it does seem that we are finally approaching the moment we’ve all been waiting for. The handwriting is on the wall.The Cabal are planning on creating a mega-event of some sort within the month of November, earlier rather than later. They expect that “83 percent of Americans will be affected” by this, dramatically, and that wherever you are when it happens, that’s where you will continue to be — for a long time to come.

I take all of these warnings with a heaping tablespoon of salt, but then again, I have been hearing the same thing from three different independent sources now. My insider said it may be an announcement that the US is completely bankrupt. The Cabal is hoping it can incite a “race war” where blacks turn on hispanics and wipe them out, and then the blacks go after the whites, which allows the controlled military to step in and take out the blacks.

This thinking flies completely in the face of reason and common sense. I would have never come up with something like this on my own — it is only what I heard. To me, it shows that these plans are heavily divorced from reality. The main point is that we are reaching some kind of finality. There is a “last, desperate stand” going on.


Ben also didn’t say that Fukushima’s recent 7.3 did not seem to be a random quake, but was probably triggered again by the Cabal in the hopes of making the damage much worse. Thankfully that did not succeed. I do not believe their other plans will succeed either.

I have had a great deal of obstructions in my schedule to work through, but plan on writing all of this up — and more — on my website this week. Russell Brand’s recent speech is also quite noteworthy. He is the first celebrity to fully verbalize what is going on in such clear, concise terms.

I am really enjoying this and will be paying very close attention in the next week and a half to what happens. Again, though I heard these rumors from three different sources, I do not think we are about to see a major collapse of society and I encourage you not to panic, but to have faith in the goodness of humanity and the positive changes this will bring about.

The Cabal does not know how this series of events they are hoping to generate will turn out for them. They are apparently taking a big gamble by trying to do this, whatever it is. Declaring bankruptcy could be one thing. If they try to do a nuclear attack, it will fail, since ET humans are very real and have been blocking every major war effort they have tried to start on any large level. It is amazing that they still think they can pull off any type of large-scale operation at this point, but hope springs eternal.

Be well — and look for a post sometime this week. I am happy to be back in the ring!

- David"
Comment by dwilcock on October 29, 2013 @ 12:35 am
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"Oh… I should also say that while I was in Boulder, filming six new episodes of my TV show Wisdom Teachings, (wisdomteachings.com), a man came up to me in a health food store. He had heard me mention the Drudge Report. He independently told me that on the very next day, “Congress was all going down to Florida to attend the funeral of some guy who is really inconsequential, and isn’t it interesting that they’ve got a disaster drill scheduled for that same time in the DC area.”
I was surprised to see Ben mention this as well. With a little digging it should be easy to uncover more about this story.

- David"
Comment by dwilcock on October 29, 2013 @ 12:37 am
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"One area in which there is a sharp divergence between what I heard and what the Bush crew told Ben is that apparently Obama is working with Putin — not the Cabal. He is very much caught in the middle of a disastrous situation. I would say that if the Bushes tell Ben one thing, the opposite is almost certainly true — and in this case I had independent confirmation that Obama has started working with Putin to defeat the Cabal. This is just a rumor and I hope we see results.

- David"

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"The classic Cabal game is to create elections that put in people they can blame for what they are doing. Bush was a notable exception to the rule, due to how powerful he was.

Nonetheless, the game always has been that they put people in office who are heavily constrained by bribery, blackmail, threats, murders, extortion and the like. In order to get a good election performance out of Obama, so he would really believe in what he was doing and have a chance of winning, they never told him what he was getting himself into. That didn’t happen until the meeting he had with all the former presidents.

Go back in the archives and look for that meeting. You will see that Bush Sr. sat down with Obama for 25 minutes, one on one, in a private room. This was where, apparently, Bush started screaming at him, called him the N word repeatedly, and said, “LOOK, YOU F-N N–ER, YOU WORK FOR US AND YOU WILL DO WHATEVER THE F- WE SAY! IF YOU EVER EVEN THINK YOU CAN TRY TO BE A F-ING HERO, WE WILL RAPE AND MURDER YOUR N-ER DAUGHTERS WHILE YOU GET TO WATCH!”

Obama staggered out of the room at the end, collapsed into tears and said, “My god, they made the n-er into a scapegoat.” We have two different insiders who reported on having witnessed this event.
This is very disturbing stuff, and I’m sorry to have to say it, but the game, again, is to blame everything on someone who they trick into thinking he will be doing a great service, only to find out that he is being used as a scapegoat.

If you go back to the news footage from the day they were set to have that meeting, a woman asks Bush Sr. how he was feeling. He seems very nervous, says “Okay” in a way reminiscent of someone with extreme anxiety, and when he reaches out to shake her hand, he had a handkerchief in his palm. This was to reduce the sweat. Even someone at his level had great nervousness about the “op” he was about to perform, because there was a possibility that Obama could have gone crazy, jumped over the table, started choking him and possibly damaged him — such as gouging out an eye — or even killed him. That obviously did not happen.

I am always very suspect of any news source that tries to say Obama is in on it and one of the “Good Old Boys” in light of this and other pieces of data I have obtained from very secure, high-level insider sources.

- David"
Comment by dwilcock on October 29, 2013 @ 1:09 am

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"This is not fun stuff to look at, when we get into the negative aspects, but overall we are going through a vast, planetary healing process, and things will get much better.

Everyone thinks these things will be gradual until Major Events take place. It does seem we are now on the verge of not one, but a series of Major Events.

I look forward to it.

- David"

[Rocky_Shorz]

well I'm glad to hear someone finally say Obama isn't tied to Bush, I felt fear so deep I couldn't describe when we had the head of Bush Money Laundering getting pushed into power...

Obama had to win and every time he pisses off one of the big boys, I lean back and chuckle...

we're all going to be fine, but eyes wide open, setting off Fukushima when moving the rods out of #4 to Radiate America must be stopped in November...

so far none of these flares have had it's wave reach our world, we have some incredibly powerful being behind it...

intervention is already happening

the Blue dude kicked back on my patio grinned when I asked him point blank if they were helping...

all I could say was, thanks... ;)

[KiwiElf]

Nice find Sam, it ties in very much with Ben Fulford's latest Post. The tangled web is unravelling... ;)
Likewise Rocky - now we really do have to start actively focusing on the outcomes we prefer

[Anchor]

now we really do have to start actively focusing on the outcomes we prefer

This makes me happy! :)

[Kimberley]

This resonates true for me...YAAA HOOO !!!!!!! As many know I trust David and I trust Ben. I do not believe everything they say... I do not believe everything anyone says...

This is good news and it came to me via a freind and glad to see this was posted already... This is very good news!

Much love, peace, and fun to us all!!! Congratulations to all that are seeing the victory! :grouphug:

[Rocky_Shorz]

I am curious about JP Morgan, it was national news the they sold a building in New York to a Chinese firm, but is there any confirmation that a further sale is happening?


JPMorgan sells New York building to Chinese firm for $725 million...

http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/18/news/china-jpmorgan-real-estate/

I hope this isn't just a dog "Chase"ng his tail... ;)

[dpwishy]

This is a vent and nothing to do with the op but I'm fed up with these dates. I have had my hopes up and my heart broken, along with looking like a fool in front of family and friends relaying these messages far to many times. I give them zero credibility at this point. What's that old saying? Fool me once shame on you, fool me five hundred friggin times and I'm just a fool. When anything like this happens ill eat my own words, until then I give up listening.

In divine friendship,
Your brother,
-michael

[Rocky_Shorz]

lmao... that isn't quite how the saying goes, but we've all been there, I searched JP Morgan sale and it showed the article, its not too hard before sharing with family and friends...

but then again, It's only a piece of paper handed over at a poker game, so could it really have happened?

We might never know...

[Carmody]

This is a vent and nothing to do with the op but I'm fed up with these dates. I have had my hopes up and my heart broken, along with looking like a fool in front of family and friends relaying these messages far to many times. I give them zero credibility at this point. What's that old saying? Fool me once shame on you, fool me five hundred friggin times and I'm just a fool. When anything like this happens ill eat my own words, until then I give up listening.

In divine friendship,
Your brother,
-michael

The point is that we each need to do our part to make it happen.

Then it happens.

No free rides.

[Robin]

What's that old saying? Fool me once shame on you, fool me five hundred friggin times and I'm just a fool. When anything like this happens ill eat my own words, until then I give up listening.

I think baby George can help you out with this one...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjmjqlOPd6A

[dpwishy]

Lol, I know the saying. Just trying to mix my frustration with humor. Can't take everything to seriously or we would go flippin mad during these times.

My apologies op with taking this off topic
:focus:

In divine friendship
Your brother
-michael

[onawah]

I don't have a problem believing this:
"One area in which there is a sharp divergence between what I heard and what the Bush crew told Ben is that apparently Obama is working with Putin — not the Cabal. He is very much caught in the middle of a disastrous situation. I would say that if the Bushes tell Ben one thing, the opposite is almost certainly true — and in this case I had independent confirmation that Obama has started working with Putin to defeat the Cabal. This is just a rumor and I hope we see results.
- David"
However bad things have been looking, I've never felt that Obama was a black hat.

[AMystic3434]

David wilcock says change is coming soon, but didn't he also say that on the exact date of 12/21/12 that there would be major change. I do believe he did say on that day that everything would change. And of coarse it didn't. That's how these people get you to come back they lead you on saying its coming soon but it never comes. I just smile when they say it now cause I wont buy into it anymore. But David also say they they are planning a big event in the beginning of nov. but then he goes on to say that the aliens will intervene and they wont be able to do it. So of coarse that means that if nothing happened he covered himself by saying that the aliens took care of it. Its some tricky bs. I will believe when I see it.

[eaglespirit]

YOU make it happen...
You and You and me and We and Us and Them and You and You and You!!!

What do YOU want to unfold in these accelerated changing times ?

The veil IS fully lifting...no kidding,
so let's quit kidding with the 'master manipulators' and BE Done with their 'doings'

TOGETHER!!!

NOW!!!

[mgray]

I am curious about JP Morgan, it was national news the they sold a building in New York to a Chinese firm, but is there any confirmation that a further sale is happening?


JPMorgan sells New York building to Chinese firm for $725 million...

http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/18/news/china-jpmorgan-real-estate/

I hope this isn't just a dog "Chase"ng his tail... ;)

No the company has not been sold to a Chinese firm, just the former Chase Manhattan HQ in lower Manhattan. Jesus how does Wilcock have any creditability left to comment.

[saladin89]

David Wilcock has been talking about something happening for the last three years. and the whole:"the Cabal is hoping it can incite a “race war” where blacks turn on hispanics and wipe them out, and then the blacks go after the whites, which allows the controlled military to step in and take out the blacks."

This is just stupid, there are many more hispanics than blacks, the hispanics gangs are actually beating the black gangs.

Most of these people believing wilcock and fulford have only come into conspiracy theory relatively recent. If you have known Wilcock for a long time he is just another guy pushing a date or saying something big is happening really soon. People need to be more critical, but I think people new to conspiracy theory than wilcock is very appealing, people get more wise as the years go on and then Wilcock gets another set of followers who are new to conspiracy theory and the cycle continues with new dates with these people new to conspiracy theory pushing wilcock.

[SilentFeathers]

I do have to admit though, Wilcock is better than some of these new TV shows that came out this fall!

[RMorgan]

... I think people new to conspiracy theory than wilcock is very appealing, people get more wise as the years go on and then Wilcock gets another set of followers who are new to conspiracy theory and the cycle continues with new dates with these people new to conspiracy theory pushing wilcock.

You pretty much nailed it, my friend.

His audience is always renewing itself; As seasoned truth-seekers become smarter they tend to move away from him frustrated by his constant failed predictions, fiascoes, misconceptions and inaccuracies, the new truth-seekers are almost invariably attracted to him motivated by his constant hopeful promises that something big is going to happen very soon.

This is happening for years, to be more precise, 13 years, since his "ascension2000" website. The man makes a living out of failed predictions and "insider" information which never gets confirmed.

[saladin89]

... I think people new to conspiracy theory than wilcock is very appealing, people get more wise as the years go on and then Wilcock gets another set of followers who are new to conspiracy theory and the cycle continues with new dates with these people new to conspiracy theory pushing wilcock.

You pretty much nailed it, my friend.

His audience is always renewing itself; As seasoned truth-seekers become smarter they tend to move away from him frustrated by his constant failed predictions, fiascoes, misconceptions and inaccuracies, the new truth-seekers are almost invariably attracted to him motivated by his constant hopeful promises that something big is going to happen very soon.

This is happening for years, to be more precise, 13 years, since his "ascension2000" website. The man makes a living out of failed predictions and "insider" information which never gets confirmed.

Yep this is a sad fact. I didn't know he actually had been doing this for 13 years wow. The perseverance of these people. It is strange how he genuinely seems so honest and sincere.

This is really a general problem, Other people for example promote Alex Collier even though he was exposed as a fraud many years ago. There is a regurgitation of conspiracy theory going on one could say. Since most experienced people leave and go deeper into conspiracy theory or other activities and there is a influx of beginners to conspiracy theory who get tricked by the usual characters. We need the experienced people there to guide the beginners, but I doubt this has much influence. Would be great if there was an elite conspiracy forum where people had gone way past promoting people like Wilcock. But this is difficult to find.

I don't mean to belittle people, but I think people have a craving for something exciting happening in their lives. And when Wilcock talks about the apocalypse or what not they get extremely interested. This is because he is giving them back a sense of excitement, that something out of this world will happen in the future.

I see there is another thread on this forum defending Wilcock. The general problem with conspiracy forums is that generally they degrade over time. This is because the more experienced ones leave and the the forum generally becomes more crowded by beginners. I see that generally there are a lot of wilcock fans in this forum. A good example of a forum degrading over time is godlikeproductions which looked completely different ten years ago.

[Kalamos]

..........

[RMorgan]

Yep this is a sad fact. I didn't know he actually had been doing this for 13 years wow. The perseverance of these people. It is strange how he genuinely seems so honest and sincere.

So, you didn't know he was preaching ascension way back in 1999? Man, thanks to the Internet Archive Wayback Machine, you can check it out:

http://web.archive.org/web/19990508172312/http://www.ascension2000.com/

Quoting his previous site:

"ET's Note: Things might not look very good to you right now. Turn off the TV - you are not going crazy. Take a walk outside. The world is not going to end - it is going to begin. Relax. God is in charge. Get up out of that chair, crank up the music and let's dance our way into the Ascension. You want to be standing up when this happens."

Like his 2012 ascension fiasco wasn't enough...


I see there is another thread on this forum defending Wilcock. The general problem with conspiracy forums is that generally they degrade over time. This is because the more experienced ones leave and the the forum generally becomes more crowded by beginners. I see that generally there are a lot of wilcock fans in this forum. A good example of a forum degrading over time is godlikeproductions which looked completely different ten years ago.

This is indeed a very real problem, but it's not so prominent here, since the moderation team carefully evaluates each individual membership application.

Also, I feel like the seasoned members vs new members ratio is bigger here compared to other similar forums.

But...it IS certainly a problem, nevertheless. One that is hard to circumvent....It is impressively hard to get out of this vicious circle, but if we don't, disinformation and nonsense will always win the game.

About Wilcock, well, I don't have enough data to confirm if he's deliberately a charlatan or not...Sometimes I think that he's just confused and probably a bit delusional.

All I know is that there's no possible reason for people to follow him aside from that vicious circle we're talking about...In the last 13 years, when was the last time he was right about anything, after all?

He's not a reliable source of information.

Raf.

[Robin]

I would first like to say that I am very disappointed in all the nay-sayers who have posted something on this thread cutting out the validity of David Wilcock.

I joined this forum because it was full of open-minded intellectuals who look at information from many different viewpoints. But it turns out that narrow-mindedness and ignorance is also present.

I am very tired of people discounting what people have to say simply because what they predicted did not come into fruition. Whatever they say will happen on a particular date does not happen so people call them fraud. They are just predictions!!!! Predictions are based off of data that has a probability to come true. That's all. Take everything with a grain of salt and don't discount someone for giving their opinion.

I am also very tired of people pairing Wilcock and Fulford together. They are two completely different individuals with different sources of information and research!!

I just recently went to a David Wilcock conference in New Mexico last week. He cleared much of this up there. He is a very intelligent individual who really does have high-level, reliable sources.

So stop paying attention to dates and pay attention instead to the quality of the information. And stop being so darn narrow-minded.

[Robin]

This is really a general problem, Other people for example promote Alex Collier even though he was exposed as a fraud many years ago.

Show me the proof of this. Do you actually believe it?

[Robin]

Yep this is a sad fact. I didn't know he actually had been doing this for 13 years wow. The perseverance of these people. It is strange how he genuinely seems so honest and sincere.

So, you didn't know he was preaching ascension way back in 1999? Man, thanks to the Internet Archive Wayback Machine, you can check it out:

http://web.archive.org/web/19990508172312/http://www.ascension2000.com/

"ET's Note: Things might not look very good to you right now. Turn off the TV - you are not going crazy. Take a walk outside. The world is not going to end - it is going to begin. Relax. God is in charge. Get up out of that chair, crank up the music and let's dance our way into the Ascension. You want to be standing up when this happens."

Like his 2012 ascension fiasco wasn't enough...


I see there is another thread on this forum defending Wilcock. The general problem with conspiracy forums is that generally they degrade over time. This is because the more experienced ones leave and the the forum generally becomes more crowded by beginners. I see that generally there are a lot of wilcock fans in this forum. A good example of a forum degrading over time is godlikeproductions which looked completely different ten years ago.

This is indeed a very real problem, but it's not so prominent here, since the moderation team carefully evaluates each individual membership application.

Also, I feel like the seasoned members vs new members ratio is bigger here compared to other similar forums.

But...it IS certainly a problem, nevertheless. One that is hard to circumvent....It is impressively hard to get out of this vicious circle, but if we don't, disinformation will always win the game.

Raf.

Who are you to say that this is a problem? I take great offense to this. You make it seem like what you have to say is correct and everyone else is wrong.

I do not see it as a problem to post information--regardless of where it comes from--and to analyze it as new information. People make mistakes in the past, yes, and David does admit this (especially with the 2012 fiasco). But to discount him just because he is a passionate individual who wants to help humanity as soon as possible to me is folly.

Who are you to say that he is full of disinformation? He only states what he hears from his sources. My guess is that all these predictions are what the Cabal has been scheming, but eventually abandon. This does not mean that it is disinformation. People pay too much attention to dates and hanging on the exact prediction someone makes. This is the problem.

For those of you who have a biased attitude towards Wilcock, then don't post on this forum if you are upset that his predictions didn't come to fruition! You are only poisoning it with your negativity and biased remarks.

[RMorgan]

For those of you who have a biased attitude towards Wilcock, then don't post on this forum if you are upset that his predictions didn't come to fruition! You are only poisoning it with your negativity and biased remarks.

Hello,

Please, don't take it personally.

However, in terms of poisoning, who's poisoning what? You, by posting information from a source who has never been right about anything in 13 years (including predictions, "insider" information and anything else), or me, by pointing that he's not a reliable source of information?

I'm totally unbiased here. I'm not judging the man, but the information, and as far as information goes, by any means he could be qualified as a reliable source.

That's it. No more and no less.

Let's put it like this: If a source of information has been considerably more wrong than right during an extended period of time, this source is not reliable. In David Wilcock's case, so far, he's never been right at all. So, David Wilcock is not a reliable source of information. There's no argument against that.

Sorry if I have offended you somehow. It was never my intention.

Raf.

[Robin]

... I think people new to conspiracy theory than wilcock is very appealing, people get more wise as the years go on and then Wilcock gets another set of followers who are new to conspiracy theory and the cycle continues with new dates with these people new to conspiracy theory pushing wilcock.

You pretty much nailed it, my friend.

His audience is always renewing itself; As seasoned truth-seekers become smarter they tend to move away from him frustrated by his constant failed predictions, fiascoes, misconceptions and inaccuracies, the new truth-seekers are almost invariably attracted to him motivated by his constant hopeful promises that something big is going to happen very soon.

This is happening for years, to be more precise, 13 years, since his "ascension2000" website. The man makes a living out of failed predictions and "insider" information which never gets confirmed.

One last post. I am extremely offended by what you have to say, good sir.

Just because you stray away from predictions does not mean that you are getting smarter. Predictions are predictions. It is a scientific approach. The Cabal has tried to do so many things already, which have been reported in the past few decades, but none of them came to be.

This does not mean that the Cabal didn't intend to do these things. Other circumstances arose (ET intervention, whistle-blowers, etc.) that led them to try a different tactic. By exposing their agendas, it is likely that we are stopping them from carrying them out.

You are thinking too narrow.

[mountain_jim]

For those of you who have a biased attitude towards Wilcock, then don't post on this forum if you are upset that his predictions didn't come to fruition! You are only poisoning it with your negativity and biased remarks.


SamWise, long time members and observers of this forum know that Wilcock is one of the most polarizing sources of info entertained here. There have been so many threads of arguments, name-calling, members put in time-out, etc., that you are not going to 'move the dial' much here arguing these points at all.

I say this as one who learned much from Wilcock's free books online, his videos, and then his masterfull (imho) information synthesis work The Source Field Investigations.

In spite of the above, I would not wade in to defend him at this point, but then I don't trash him either - I keep up with what he and Fulford and many others have to say and patiently wait and see what develops.

I suggest you may be getting a little too defensive on behalf of Wilcock if you are going to try and tell folks here what they should or should not be posting on this forum.

Acting as arbiter of what is poisoning the forum with negativity won't help much either in the long run. Various POVs, positive and negative, are how we evaluate info and learn and change. I just don't see that going well for you here at all.

[Kimberley]

Hello SamTheBrave and welcome to avalon :hug:

I have some unsolicited advise for you...

I too really like David and have for years...I have interviewed him and spent time with him in 2008...he knows me by name and we are in contact from time to time.

I have been posting here for almost 3 years now. RMorgan does not like David (obvious right? and he is not alone in that feeling) and he is entitled to his view. Anyway, I suggest to you Sam to leave the debate alone. David does not need any defense help. And you sam are never going to change rmorgans mind, so why even try.

Whenever a David Wilcock update is posted rmorgan always makes these types of comments. He is entitled to his opinion. I do not agree with it however I also do not comment to it.

The only reason I am posting this now is because I wanted to give you, Sam, this advice.

I have a moto I would rather be happy than right. Yes we are all entitled to our views and there are many strong differing views here on many topics.

Much love, peace, and fun to us all!!! :grouphug:

[SilentFeathers]

Samwise, I see you're a fairly new member here, your responses defending Wilcock and even considering the remark that you think Raf (RMorgan) may be a bit narrow-minded in his thinking, it's obvious you haven't researched this forum very well (which is probably about impossible anyways considering it's zillions of threads).....but, as M Jim says, your're likely going about this the wrong way.

Many here actually keep up with Wilcock and enjoy his stuff, everyone is not on the same page with him as you have obviously noticed. I believe Raf meant no harm but wants you to just be aware he is not all that reliable with his methods. (this personal assumption by me is due to the many conversations and member detective work done on him on this forum over a rather long period of time.)

I personally don't believe much of what Wilcock says but I do read his blogs occasionally as I find them entertaining, sometimes I find a tid bit of info in them that makes sense, most often not though. I actually like the guy but I do not see him as a reliable source.

If he is helping you along your way right now, none of us (the non-believers in him) will hold that against you, at least I won't, but after a while I would bet you a couple nickles or three that eventually you will move on from him to a large extent and find more promising and reliable sources than him that fulfill your journey in a better way.

Either way, I understand your passion, he has done this to many many people, for quite a few different reasons.....each affected a bit differently. The seasoned members so to speak or more deeply involved researchers here on this forum IMO understand Wilcock in a little bit of a different way than you do, that's all.

Depending on what he is actually doing for you is your business, but many here don't trust his methods all that much.

[RMorgan]

I have been posting here for almost 3 years now. RMorgan does not like David (obvious right? and he is not alone in that feeling) and he is entitled to his view. Anyway, I suggest to you Sam to leave the debate alone. David does not need any defense help. And you sam are never going to change rmorgans mind, so why even try.

Whenever a David Wilcock update is posted rmorgan always makes these types of comments. He is entitled to his opinion. I do not agree with it however I also do not comment to it.


Hey Kimberley,

I totally agree with part of what you're saying. We're all entitled to our own opinions.

However, I'm not exposing my opinions. I'm exposing facts, and people tend to get angry when their beliefs are confronted by facts.

The fact is, like I said on post #25, David Wilcock was never right, during all these years, about anything, not only regarding his terribly failed predictions, but also regarding his "insider" information, his Edgar Cayce incarnation story and so on...

Also, we should consider the fact that not everyone is good as we'd like them to be. There's a lot of money in this business, and you know it.

Of course, David Wilcock was obliged to admit that he was very wrong about his 2012 ascension prediction, but back then, he earned a lot of money by selling books, lectures and dvds exclusively postulating his 2012 theories, since he was the most prominent 2012 advocate out there. The same goes for his Y2K ascension prediction related products and services, but in a minor scale.

After all these years, one must at least entertain the idea that he's in it for the money, like many people do in this business.

I have nothing against predictions themselves, but when people start to make them a business and earn considerable amounts of money out of them, then it becomes a serious ethical and moral problem, even a legal one. We can't deny that David Wilcock used the 2012 non-phenomena to catapult himself into fame. Whether he believed his predictions and theories were genuine or not, is the crux of the issue.

I can't say that David Wilcock is an outright charlatan because there's the possibility that he's honest with his intentions, but I can say with absolute conviction that he's not a reliable source of information, unless the contrary is proven.

If one day someone could prove I'm wrong about this issue, I'll be the first to admit it. You can be sure about that. So that part that nobody could ever convince me of contrary is untrue.

So far, the facts are on my side, though.

Have in mind that I'm not discrediting his merit as a researcher. He certainly is a dedicated and good researcher, although there's a lot of controversy about him taking the credits of other people's works for himself.

I'm just pointing that he and his "insiders" cannot be considered a reliable source of information and that's all. If someone could objectively prove me wrong, I'm all for it, and I'll humbly admit my wrongness if the time comes, though I don't believe it will.

Cheers,

Raf.

[transiten]

Hello SamTheBrave and welcome to avalon :hug:

I have some unsolicited advise for you...

I too really like David and have for years...I have interviewed him and spent time with him in 2008...he knows me by name and we are in contact from time to time.

I have been posting here for almost 3 years now. RMorgan does not like David (obvious right? and he is not alone in that feeling) and he is entitled to his view. Anyway, I suggest to you Sam to leave the debate alone. David does not need any defense help. And you sam are never going to change rmorgans mind, so why even try.

Whenever a David Wilcock update is posted rmorgan always makes these types of comments. He is entitled to his opinion. I do not agree with it however I also do not comment to it.

The only reason I am posting this now is because I wanted to give you, Sam, this advice.

I have a moto I would rather be happy than right. Yes we are all entitled to our views and there are many strong differing views here on many topics.

Much love, peace, and fun to us all!!! :grouphug:

Kimberley, your avatar looks exactly like my mother wawing to me from the other side:wave:

I'm an astrologer currently reading "The Synchronicity Key" and i'm at the chapter where David explains the geometry of interlocking cycles of planets in our solarsystem; extremely interesting.

It's a pity that those who critisize Davids "failed predictions" throw the "baby out with the:bathbaby::emptybath:". I don't agree with everything he says, never believed "the instant thingy" and i'm puzzled about the "Putin/Russian thingy" considering how they treat homosexuals. This doesn't prevent me from reading about how he connects the dots of the scientific research others have made.

[GoodETxSG]

I love DW! I hate it that so many of the wrong ppl have gained his trust... I respect the ground breaking "Financial Tyranny" Ebook he published, it wasn't long after these disclosures which will prove to be the thread of ALL disclosure... That it was decided he had to be infiltrated on this front, no further pure info will come through his sources. ALL Tainted!

Obama working with Putin and BRICS? Not on your life, Obama is owned body n soul... There are some great nuggets esp coming from Fulfords sorted camp... But you have to look too closely to separate the nuggets from the "Fools Gold". Who has the time, patience or discernment for that?

I will stick to his Wisdom Teachings which are spot on IMHO...

[Robin]

Samwise, I see you're a fairly new member here, your responses defending Wilcock and even considering the remark that you think Raf (RMorgan) may be a bit narrow-minded in his thinking, it's obvious you haven't researched this forum very well (which is probably about impossible anyways considering it's zillions of threads).....but, as M Jim says, your're likely going about this the wrong way.

I appreciate what you're saying here, SilentFeathers, but I find this extremely offensive as well. Maybe I'm just an overly-sensitive American.

Yes, I am new here, but that doesn't mean I am any less knowledgeable or aware than any of you.

I have done my homework and have researched the forum and whistleblower testimonials rather well. I do not like to say things without examining them in great detail and staying open-minded.

That being said, I will still offer an apology for snapping at these comments. I am just frustrated, as everyone else is, that there is so much disinformation and false predictions circulating. I just want the truth.

I am also a bit tired of people always finding the negative things about people and bringing them forth. Yes, David has been wrong and misdirected on many occasions, but what about all the good he is doing? That's all I want to focus on. Optimism and finding the good in all things has always been a way of life for me.

I have said this before on the forum and I'll say it again:

Even if something has a sliver of truth in it, it is worth a goldmine.

[RMorgan]

That being said, I will still offer an apology for snapping at these comments. I am just frustrated, as everyone else is, that there is so much disinformation and false predictions circulating. I just want the truth.

I am also a bit tired of people always finding the negative things about people and bringing them forth. Yes, David has been wrong and misdirected on many occasions, but what about all the good he is doing? That's all I want to focus on. Optimism and finding the good in all things has always been a way of life for me.


I understand you. Apologies accepted from my side.

The thing is that charlatans, liars, conmen, they all do some good to people, because they simply give people what they want. They tell people what they want to listen.

I'm not saying that this is exactly the case with David Wilcock, but how much good was he supposed to be doing, as an example, by propagating the 2012 hysteria? How good it is to give thousands of people hope and then take it away from them? How much good he's supposed to be doing by giving people "insider" information that never materializes?

How many people, because of him, were hoping that they would ascend in 2012? How much frustration has it generated? How many people have spent their hard earned money going to his lectures, donating to his website and buying his products? How many people looked like fools before their friends and family for spreading his nonsense 2012 theories?

I guess that's why people say that the road to hell is paved with good intentions...because good intentions are not enough and they can backfire.

You know, it's a mistake to believe that the truth can be achieved through half-truths, which is just another word for lies...

You see, lying to people, even if it's not deliberate, even if you mean to do good, cannot do any good.

You might say that he's doing good by promoting hope, but how much good can hope do to people? Hope, by its own nature, is something that people choose to feel when they assume they have absolutely no control about their future, so, instead of knowing that something will happen and working hard to achieve such goal, they simply hope...Like hoping that the world will fix itself or someone else will fix it without even getting up and actually do something to help fixing it yourself...Like hoping that you will suddenly become rich without any real perspective of becoming rich.

Essentially, my friend, the spirituality and alternative media businesses are full of people, theories and information that indeed makes a lot of people feel good. Understand that, for a lot of people, these are just businesses.

However, making people feel good is not necessarily the same thing as actually doing good. A lot of agendas have been implemented based on the making people feel good principle.

Anyway, if I could give any advice I'd say to keep reading things, keep looking for information, but don't get too attached to any of it, specially to the sources of information themselves. Don't take any of these articles and theories for granted and don't incorporate any of it as part of your belief system. Don't choose to believe something or someone simply because it makes you feel good.

Who said that the truth, after all, is supposed to make anyone feel good? Who said that the truth is supposed to be beautiful by itself? It could be, but it couldn't as well.

I share your frustration, and I know that the truth-seeker path is not easy...Sometimes we get lost...Sometimes we hold on to something or to someone, fooling ourselves to think that we have found it...Sometimes we ignore truthful facts because they make us feel bad...Sometimes we accept lies as truths because they make us feel better...Sometimes we just hope because we have no other choice...

All I know is that it's not easy...There are too many variables and too much noise.

I guess, in the end, we will know.

All the best,

Raf.

[Lone Bean]

I've been reading a lot by DW, bought his latest 2 books and have watched nearly all his videos on Youtube. I was turned onto him by Michael C. Ruppert who raved about him for a few weeks, then he stopped mentioning him. I have to wonder why MR never talks about him anymore. I am finally stepping off the DW bandwagon. I find him very entertaining, and I hope what he says will eventually come true, but I have to let him go as a reliable source of information. So, that leads me to this question to the seasoned Avalon members:

Who do you recommend as decent sources of fairly reliable information? I feel as if I've been running around in circles listening to this person and to that person, etc...only to find out they are just fear mongerers. I would VERY MUCH APPRECIATE a list, even a short one, of some name of people I should read and/or take a listen too. I want the truth, even as bad as it may be, I need to know the truth as best as possible now and I can't seem to locate anyone with a firm grasp on reality.

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Sam (and all): I intend to foster no division here. I genuinely value and respect every member who's posted on this thread. If we disagree passionately about something, the unifying factor may be that we all care, and want to get things right if we can.

What might place me in a helpful position to assist with some clarity is that I've spent quite a bit of time with David personally. I've joined him on quite a number of audio and video interviews (as well as the ill-fated Camelot TV show!), hosted the 2009 Zurich conference where he spoke and stayed for a week, traveled for three days to meet Dr Pete Peterson with him, and shared quite a number of personal dinners along the way. If anyone has any questions to ask, please PM me and I'll be pleased to help if I can.

[RMorgan]

Who do you recommend as decent sources of fairly reliable information? I feel as if I've been running around in circles listening to this person and to that person, etc...only to find out they are just fear mongerers. I would VERY MUCH APPRECIATE a list, even a short one, of some name of people I should read and/or take a listen too. I want the truth, even as bad as it may be, I need to know the truth as best as possible now and I can't seem to locate anyone with a firm grasp on reality.

That's a hard question.

We live in the age of information. Information can get you killed, can make you rich, can make you miserable, can change the world for good or bad.

Accurate, reliable and pure information is extremely rare and often extremely expensive and dangerous.

We all know that we may find good information for free on the internet, but they (whoever they are) had flooded it with disinformation to a point where it becomes practically impossible to discern fast enough and efficiently enough.

Personally, I don't really trust anyone out there in the media, alternative or mainstream, as a reliable source. When there's no actual proof regarding any piece of information, you have to resort to trust, and when you choose to trust someone you don't even know, you're building your choice on credibility, and credibility is always based on the opinion of other people you don't know about a common character or subject.

In the end, I believe we actually can't know, but that doesn't mean we have to ignore something just because when can't know its true nature.

I vote for keep looking, without ignoring anything and without believing anything without minimum evidence as well.

Unfortunately, it doesn't answer your question but this is my opinion. Honestly, I can't vouch for anyone but myself and people I personally know.

All these interviews, all these articles, all these alternative media characters each one with their own version of the truth...It's too much...Enough to keep you running around in circles for several lifetimes or to make you simply give up after a while. That's exactly what they want; That's exactly what they're doing; That's probably exactly what they'll accomplish in most part of the cases. Their victory is based upon exhaustion.

Raf.

[sdv]

I love DW! I hate it that so many of the wrong ppl have gained his trust... I respect the ground breaking "Financial Tyranny" Ebook he published, it wasn't long after these disclosures which will prove to be the thread of ALL disclosure... That it was decided he had to be infiltrated on this front, no further pure info will come through his sources. ALL Tainted!

Obama working with Putin and BRICS? Not on your life, Obama is owned body n soul... There are some great nuggets esp coming from Fulfords sorted camp... But you have to look too closely to separate the nuggets from the "Fools Gold". Who has the time, patience or discernment for that?

I will stick to his Wisdom Teachings which are spot on IMHO...

I think part of the problem is that David is too trusting, does not question enough. The world is full of people who make up stories ... no agenda or conspiracy ... they just make up stories. Have you met people like that? I have. The alternative community is full of people like that, and they can be very convincing. So some person comes along with a story and David accepts the person as an insider whistleblower. He gets caught every time!

Lots of people were caught up in 2012 hype. There was truth there, but it was misinterpreted and misunderstood. Look at the world since then ... we are living in the dark ages that were predicted but because it isn't completely black and the end times just don't look like and feel like what we see in Hollywood movies, we don't recognise that we are in a dark age, we don't realise how bad it is and how much worse it is going to get and how we will adapt, or protest and be silenced, or pretend and hope. (Elephants and rhino are being slaughtered in Africa and will become extinct in the wild in our lifetime ... how's that for a dark age and end times! A couple of weeks ago some elephants went on the rampage and killed a ranger. Elephants are mostly gentle, but they are conscious sentient beings and they are angry. http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/23767045/zimbabwe-parks-ranger-killed-in-elephant-attack So many other stories, true!, of the darkness that is filling our world.)

As for ascension and enlightenment ... also misinterpreted and misunderstood, in my opinion. MY sister believed that the enlightened ones would disappear with the great event of 2012! This lifetime is just a moment of eternity and enlightenment and ascension is an eternal journey.

[mountain_jim]

I recommend writer/researcher Richard Dolan and his UFOs and the National Security State volumes for helping folks get up to speed on what research and compilation can prove or extrapolate concerning events in the USA from WWII onward as it relates to these subjects, Operation Paperclip, The National Security Act of 1947, founding of the CIA, NSA, and other events which have lead us to the corporate fascist national security and secrecy apparatus that we in the US (and much of the planet) exist under today.

[SilentFeathers]

Who do you recommend as decent sources of fairly reliable information? I feel as if I've been running around in circles listening to this person and to that person, etc...only to find out they are just fear mongerers. I would VERY MUCH APPRECIATE a list, even a short one, of some name of people I should read and/or take a listen too. I want the truth, even as bad as it may be, I need to know the truth as best as possible now and I can't seem to locate anyone with a firm grasp on reality.

I seriously think that so many sources for possible truths are being phase out due to a lack of substance so to speak just like disco music sort of got phased out...They had their time and were a hit, but now they are not so popular anymore!

I've personally come to the conclusion that we better start trusting our own intuition and observations A LOT more than we have been.

[Lone Bean]

I recommend writer/researcher Richard Dolan and his UFOs and the National Security State volumes for helping folks get up to speed on what research and compilation can prove or extrapolate concerning events in the USA from WWII onward as it relates to these subjects, Operation Paperclip, The National Security Act of 1947, founding of the CIA, NSA, and other events which have lead us to the corporate fascist national security and secrecy apparatus that we in the US (and much of the planet) exist under today.


YES!!! I had already found him and he is like a breath of fresh air!! I had been listening to his archived radio shows but now you have to pay to hear them. I have bought a couple of his books too though I have yet to read them. He's getting more and more popular and I do hope he remains safe and sound.

[Kimberley]

I've personally come to the conclusion that we better start trusting our own intuition and observations A LOT more than we have been.

I am right there with you on this! And I know so many people that are at this place also.

It is time to agree to disagree and honor our differences. I truly love everyone! That does not mean I want to hang out with everyone, it means I respect our differences and it is not up to me to change ANYONE except for myself. And I like me, and my life, and I take responsibility for all of it!

************************************

My list of top 4 to pay attention to are (not in this order) Don Miguel Ruiz, Dr Bruce Lipton, Eckhart Tolle, and Gregg Bradon. Tons of books and videos available from them all.....

Much love :grouphug:

[transiten]

I've personally come to the conclusion that we better start trusting our own intuition and observations A LOT more than we have been.

I am right there with you on this! And I know so many people that are at this place also.

It is time to agree to disagree and honor our differences. I truly love everyone! That does not mean I want to hang out with everyone, it means I respect our differences and it is not up to me to change ANYONE except for myself. And I like me, and my life, and I take responsibility for all of it!

************************************

My list of top 4 to pay attention to are (not in this order) Don Miguel Ruiz, Dr Bruce Lipton, Eckhart Tolle, and Gregg Bradon. Tons of books and videos available from them all.....

Much love :grouphug:

Hi Kimberley, agreed! Gregg Braden i suppose? No women???

[Bill Ryan]

Who do you recommend as decent sources of fairly reliable information? I feel as if I've been running around in circles listening to this person and to that person, etc...only to find out they are just fear mongerers. I would VERY MUCH APPRECIATE a list, even a short one, of some name of people I should read and/or take a listen too.


Already Done! :)

A list of websites for good alternative information
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59681-A-list-of-websites-for-good-alternative-information

[Rocky_Shorz]

I would first like to say that I am very disappointed in all the nay-sayers who have posted something on this thread cutting out the validity of David Wilcock.

I joined this forum because it was full of open-minded intellectuals who look at information from many different viewpoints. But it turns out that narrow-mindedness and ignorance is also present.

I am very tired of people discounting what people have to say simply because what they predicted did not come into fruition. Whatever they say will happen on a particular date does not happen so people call them fraud. They are just predictions!!!! Predictions are based off of data that has a probability to come true. That's all. Take everything with a grain of salt and don't discount someone for giving their opinion.

I am also very tired of people pairing Wilcock and Fulford together. They are two completely different individuals with different sources of information and research!!

I just recently went to a David Wilcock conference in New Mexico last week. He cleared much of this up there. He is a very intelligent individual who really does have high-level, reliable sources.

So stop paying attention to dates and pay attention instead to the quality of the information. And stop being so darn narrow-minded.

Hi Sam,

I guess it's my fault that after glancing through it, I saw a piece that hadn't been checked out before and shared what I found quickly before everyone was up on the rooftops shouting JP Morgan is now Chinese...

we are all here for entertainment, and for me, hearing what they have to share is always fun...

what we are learning being part of this is the art of discernment, being able to look at new info crossing it against what we know and looking into what is new...

you'll never see me pound on any of them, because I don't want them to stop doing what they do...

I'll admit I still pop by Sorcha Faal's site when everything else gets slow just for a chuckle, and once in a while, find a little nugget worth sharing with this crowd...

never ever take it personal when you start a thread and watch the info get shredded, expect it...

and be glad you aren't the source... ;)

[Positive Vibe Merchant]

Regardless of the person who brings the information to light, it is our responsibility to do our own investigations on whether we feel, see, thing that this info has any legs to stand on. personally I can be quite lazy when it comes to my own research, but we can't be divisive because we have certain 'feelings' for a person that is bringing the info forward. if you don't think it is right after your own investigations, then set it aside and keep moving on.

getting into debate, can be healthy but we have to keep pushing forward.

PVM

[Kimberley]

That is interesting Transiten "no women"? Hmmmm?

Louise Hay, Barbara Marx Hubbard, Marianne Williamson, Lucia René, Anita Morjani.

However I think Bruce Lipton and Don Miguel Ruiz get top billing for me :-) And I really like David Wilcock a lot too :-)

Much love! :grouphug:

[saladin89]

This is really a general problem, Other people for example promote Alex Collier even though he was exposed as a fraud many years ago.

Show me the proof of this. Do you actually believe it?

It is quite easy to find this information yourself, do some googling. I won't bother because it doesn't seem like this information would change your mind anyway since you are too emotionally invested in this. I generally do not think critical remarks to various spiritual gurus in the community is necessarily narrow mindedness. If this Wilcock guy wasn't challenged many people reading this forum would get even more into Wilcock, which i honestly just think is a waste of time. Also this argument about ignorance and narrow mindedness is not a good one that encourages debate, I recommend you try to refute the arguments with logic. I genuinely think that 95% of the information out there is some sort of disinformation, so this forum changing into an echo chamber with Wilcock followers is something I oppose. One has to be openly critical if one wants to really know the truth, and the last place people actually look for the truth is inside themselves.

[Robin]

Hey no worries! :rolleyes:

Sometimes I'm too passionate for my own good and say things without thinking twice about it.

I appreciate people who look at things in a "Big Picture" as it means opening your mind to all possibilities. That's why I especially like the work of Wilcock and Project Camelot.

As for Richard Dolan, I find that he is especially focused on one specific subject (UFO sightings). I haven't studied his work or listened to him speak too much because of his narrow research focus, but am now beginning to realize how vitally important his work is.

Richard Dolan is a very nice and intelligent guy but I can tell that he specifically avoids talking about bigger topics (Reptilian agenda, Anunnaki, Illuminati, etc.). At first I thought that this was because he doesn't believe any of it, but now I think that it is so he can retain his credibility as a researcher who uses only solid proof (UFO sightings).

For that, he is vitally important. Many more people will be able to relate to his work and become introduced to this subject matter.

[Robin]

This is really a general problem, Other people for example promote Alex Collier even though he was exposed as a fraud many years ago.

Show me the proof of this. Do you actually believe it?

It is quite easy to find this information yourself, do some googling. I won't bother because it doesn't seem like this information would change your mind anyway since you are too emotionally invested in this. I generally do not think critical remarks to various spiritual gurus in the community is necessarily narrow mindedness. If this Wilcock guy wasn't challenged many people reading this forum would get even more into Wilcock, which i honestly just think is a waste of time. Also this argument about ignorance and narrow mindedness is not a good one that encourages debate, I recommend you try to refute the arguments with logic. I genuinely think that 95% of the information out there is some sort of disinformation, so this forum changing into an echo chamber with Wilcock followers is something I oppose. One has to be openly critical if one wants to really know the truth, and the last place people actually look for the truth is inside themselves.

I've researched a lot about Alex Collier but it seems all the evidence against him comes from people who simply don't want to believe him. Either that or they are disinformation agents themselves. Or they are frustrated at failed predictions.

It seems that the trend is that when a whistleblower or contactee gives a date when they think something is going to happen, and that date comes and passes, all credibility is lost. I find this a bit frustrating, but I understand why people get so upset about it.

Remember, how we on Earth normally think of time/space and space/time is completely wrong. For ETs to accurately give a date of an event, I'm sure that it is either an estimation or a prediction (based on probability). They don't want us to cling to their prediction as we have the power to form our own reality. I personally am not quick to discount someone's information because of failed predictions. ;)

[Wookie]

I'm still trying to make tadpoles turn into salamanders by shooting them with LAZORS.

Peaceful Journeys Wookie

[DeDukshyn]

David wilcock says change is coming soon, but didn't he also say that on the exact date of 12/21/12 that there would be major change. I do believe he did say on that day that everything would change. And of coarse it didn't. That's how these people get you to come back they lead you on saying its coming soon but it never comes. I just smile when they say it now cause I wont buy into it anymore. But David also say they they are planning a big event in the beginning of nov. but then he goes on to say that the aliens will intervene and they wont be able to do it. So of coarse that means that if nothing happened he covered himself by saying that the aliens took care of it. Its some tricky bs. I will believe when I see it.

My memory from actually watching some DW videos was that he said nothing will transform overnight and that that wold indicate the start of change ... however I'll admit that he may not have had the same details in all his videos ... Can you cite something specific? I'm not doubting you specifically, its just the DW haters are a dime a dozen - just like his supporters -- I am after stuff with some support. Let me know.

When timescales are in centuries or decades, years are small units -- keep this in mind as well ... not a major supporter of DW ... just trying to separate hate from reality - which needs to be done, unfortunately.

BTW for the record, I steer people clear of his blog ... but his books are quite good ...

[Wind]

I'm going to share my opinions about David, I hope that it's of some worth. I've only been "awake" for some four years and I have grown up a lot during that time. I first saw David's PC interview in 2010 and after that I started to watch more Project Camelot videos. Eventually I found I joined this forum. I really bought the 2012 ascension thing for some reason, I guess I just really wanted things to change for the better.

I've been highly enjoying David's two latest books, but to be honest the information in those books isn't his own. He's just presenting it to us and most of the scientific studies in those books are from Russia and probably that's why we haven't heard about them before. I still read David's blogs and find the information in them to be entertaining, but not necessarily very believable. It seems that he has made a business out of his teachings and I don't see it necessarily as a wrong thing, but it does tell something about him.

I just don't understand that why he would still be promoting Obama, I understand that he might not be a truly evil guy and he might have no other choice than to obey his masters. When I was still asleep in 2008 I was literally cheering for Obama when I saw him get elected live in TV, I thought that he truly would bring hope and change to this world, but did he? No. Even though Putin might not be a cabal puppet, he still is responsible for many awful things.

I haven't followed Ben Fulford that much, but I think that most of his updates seem to be kind of comical... Does anybody still remember that Drake guy? Wasn't he supposed the change everything?

I think that we do need inspirational people to lead us to the prosperous times... People like Russell Brand, David Icke, Graham Hancock, but of course we shouldn't be worshipping them. I have also learned that the best way to change this world is by changing ourselves, when we have empowered ourselves then we will empower others. It is very important to remember it in these times of greed, apathy and lack. We have the power inside ourselves to change this world for the better if we truly want it to happen.

[DeDukshyn]

I'm going to share my opinions about David, I hope that it's of some worth. I've only been "awake" for some four years and I have grown up a lot during that time. I first saw David's PC interview in 2010 and after that I started to watch more Project Camelot videos. Eventually I found I joined this forum. I really bought the 2012 ascension thing for some reason, I guess I just really wanted things to change for the better.

I've been highly enjoying David's two latest books, but to be honest the information in those books isn't his own. He's just presenting it to us and most of the scientific studies in those books are from Russia and probably that's why we haven't heard about them before. I still read David's blogs and find the information in them to be entertaining, but not necessarily very believable. It seems that he has made a business out of his teachings and I don't see it necessarily as a wrong thing, but it does tell something about him.

I just don't understand that why he would still be promoting Obama, I understand that he might not be a truly evil guy and he might have no other choice than to obey his masters. When I was still asleep in 2008 I was literally cheering for Obama when I saw him get elected live in TV, I thought that he truly would bring hope and change to this world, but did he? No. Even though Putin might not be a cabal puppet, he still is responsible for many awful things.

I haven't followed Ben Fulford that much, but I think that most of his updates seem to be kind of comical... Does anybody still remember that Drake guy? Wasn't he supposed the change everything?

I think that we do need inspirational people to lead us to the prosperous times... People like Russell Brand, David Icke, Graham Hancock, but of course we shouldn't be worshipping them. I have also learned that the best way to change this world is by changing ourselves, when we have empowered ourselves then we will empower others. It is very important to remember it in these times of greed, apathy and lack. We have the power inside ourselves to change this world for the better if we truly want it to happen.

Again .. I think his blog is just short of useless, Obama is the same as all US presidents - they are all scapegoats for higher powers - whether it was "obama" or "o, johna" the same **** goes down -- the "president" is a useless pawn to the real powers no matter what his name or his "party"

Is the power inside "us" yes it is! But it requires a complete emotional and psychological shift in the masses. Still feeling angry about Obama or anything else? -- YOU'RE a Pawn!!! We need to stop creating "their" fear and doubt, and start creating our own "reality" -- at the end of the day Wilcock mirrors this effort -- why I don't write him off fully --- he is just un-aligned at the moment. Babies are more valuable than bathwater to me and in days of dis-info, throwing out babies is the "Elites" goal.


Anyway, my 2 cents but am always reflecting on new "real" info on this topic.

The topic of collective manifestations is a real one for me --- and it must envelope all ...

PS: ignore every date ever given ... just do it, not necessarily discounting the message, but the date? goes ...

[Robin]

I'm going to share my opinions about David, I hope that it's of some worth. I've only been "awake" for some four years and I have grown up a lot during that time. I first saw David's PC interview in 2010 and after that I started to watch more Project Camelot videos. Eventually I found I joined this forum. I really bought the 2012 ascension thing for some reason, I guess I just really wanted things to change for the better.

I've been highly enjoying David's two latest books, but to be honest the information in those books isn't his own. He's just presenting it to us and most of the scientific studies in those books are from Russia and probably that's why we haven't heard about them before. I still read David's blogs and find the information in them to be entertaining, but not necessarily very believable. It seems that he has made a business out of his teachings and I don't see it necessarily as a wrong thing, but it does tell something about him.

I just don't understand that why he would still be promoting Obama, I understand that he might not be a truly evil guy and he might have no other choice than to obey his masters. When I was still asleep in 2008 I was literally cheering for Obama when I saw him get elected live in TV, I thought that he truly would bring hope and change to this world, but did he? No. Even though Putin might not be a cabal puppet, he still is responsible for many awful things.

I haven't followed Ben Fulford that much, but I think that most of his updates seem to be kind of comical... Does anybody still remember that Drake guy? Wasn't he supposed the change everything?

I think that we do need inspirational people to lead us to the prosperous times... People like Russell Brand, David Icke, Graham Hancock, but of course we shouldn't be worshipping them. I have also learned that the best way to change this world is by changing ourselves, when we have empowered ourselves then we will empower others. It is very important to remember it in these times of greed, apathy and lack. We have the power inside ourselves to change this world for the better if we truly want it to happen.

I definitely understand what you're saying. As a scientist, it has always been difficult for me to accept anything spiritual. David helped wake me up because he actually explained spirituality through science...which I appreciate.

It is true that most of the material he lectures about are from other sources....but isn't that the job of a journalist? That's exactly what he is...a journalist. But he puts his own unique spin on it. Without him, I think many people would be clueless to all the great things Russia is doing research-wise.

So are Graham Hancock, Jim Marrs, David Icke, etc. They evaluate concepts and analyze history just like David Wilcock.

[KiwiElf]

Just stuck this on "The Predictions that never happened" thread but it's relevant here too:

What was that line from the X-Files?... "The best way to predict the future, is to invent it..."

The minute you put it "out there", it will change. Why? Because you have a group of people at one end of the spectrum who act on the belief to make it happen, versus a group of people at the other end of the spectrum who actively make sure it doesn't happen, (and everything in between), for what ever reason.

An audience, (including forums like this), becomes a testing ground - a form of "feedback" for trends and beliefs. Put scenario "A" out there, and if there's enough support it will probably happen. If not, then you get "B" or "C". (and maybe that's what "they" wanted you to choose/believe in the first place by putting "A" out there!) ;)

My case in point, any of the "reporters" out there like Fulford, Wilcock, Duff, etc.

How much we collectively create that reality (in simple terms, for or against), possibly goes a long way to deciding the outcome or accuracy of the prediction.

ie, you want "A" to happen, you actively believe "A" will happen and you act on that belief,

or

you want "A" to happen, but you really believe "B" will happen and you subconsciously doubt that "A" will happen.

See the difference?

Doubt in this case, is a 100% belief in a negative outcome.

[SilentFeathers]

I think that we do need inspirational people to lead us to the prosperous times... People like Russell Brand, David Icke, Graham Hancock, but of course we shouldn't be worshipping them. I have also learned that the best way to change this world is by changing ourselves, when we have empowered ourselves then we will empower others. It is very important to remember it in these times of greed, apathy and lack. We have the power inside ourselves to change this world for the better if we truly want it to happen.

I guess it boils down to who we ourselves believe to be people that are inspirational.

Russell Brand really isn't saying anything new or that most of us don't already know for the most part, seems for some he is instantly thought to be bringing something new to the table??? Russell Brand a leader? Yikes!!!!!
Icke very often speaks from common sense and is an inspiration when it comes to what we need to do to create change in my opinion.
Hancock has done some great research, but it seems the last couple of years all he has done is become obsessed with tripping his brains out......
Wilcock is a great compiler and researcher, but it seems to me throwing his own twist into it he becomes almost a cult like leader. Seems many of his followers are drunk with the idea that he is some great master or guru and will go to extremes protecting or defending him.

...and then there is you and I, we have our faults too, but we also have our strengths and or talents/abilities.

As you mentioned above, WE have the power and most of what these other people speak about or are trying to do, we can do ourselves, if we come from a place within through intuition and personal power we can probably be more effective. We've observed, studied, experienced many of these things ourselves and have the capability to discern and process things ourselves, why do most of us disregard this personal power and seek others to do it for us???? I personally believe this is a huge problem searching for truth right now. Most seem to be looking in all the wrong spots when many of the most obvious truths are point blank right in our face all the time.

I also think spreading truths and awareness for the most part needs to be separated from money or a business like mentality. Corruption even on a low level causes deception or broken truths IMO.

Awareness comes from within, not dictated to us from someone else.

[Wind]

...and then there is you and I, we have our faults too, but we also have our strengths and or talents/abilities.

As you mentioned above, WE have the power and most of what these other people speak about or are trying to do, we can do ourselves, if we come from a place within through intuition and personal power we can probably be more effective. We've observed, studied, experienced many of these things ourselves and have the capability to discern and process things ourselves, why do most of us disregard this personal power and seek others to do it for us???? I personally believe this is a huge problem searching for truth right now. Most seem to be looking in all the wrong spots when many of the most obvious truths are point blank right in our face all the time.

I also think spreading truths and awareness for the most part needs to be separated from money or a business like mentality. Corruption even on a low level causes deception or broken truths IMO.

Awareness comes from within, not dictated to us from someone else.

I agree with you, but I should say that without certain people I wouldn't be as aware as I am now. Wilcock is one of them too even he though he has been wrong as have I. In my opinion it's too harsh to call him a fraud, perhaps deluded in some cases. I have many times suspected the authenticity of his "insiders" with their information.

I think that some people are doing great job by waking up the masses and I don't think that Brand should necessary be a leader, but he is very awake and aware for a celebrity. Earlier I thought that he was just another annoying celebrity. Masses of people don't listen to Hancock or Icke, they're just sound way too fringe for them. If there were enough celebreties like Brand on the television then perhaps it would once again cause people to think with their own unused brains... With his current statements Brand has already gathered so much attention, both positive and negative. Many people here on Avalon think that he is some kind of a plant and I think that is ridicilous, but of course all of us are entitled to our own opinions. I respect him for his courage... Some could say that his acting career is over now, but he doesn't care about it. He cares about the more important things, it seems to me... Corruption and greed sure have caused all these troubles that we are now facing.

In the end the responsibility is indeed in our hands. Last but not least, this forum has been a great catalyst for my awakening. Every day I learn something new about something. Some information is false and some is true, we just need to use our own discernment and inner guidance.

[mountain_jim]

Obama is the same as all US presidents - they are all scapegoats for higher powers - whether it was "obama" or "o, johna" the same **** goes down -- the "president" is a useless pawn to the real powers no matter what his name or his "party"



As reiterated on a VT article this week about the secret shadow government, and supported by a lot of research info elsewhere, Bush Sr was the exception to this rule and by far the closest up the chain to the 'real powers' as any recent president, and did not act as a useless pawn at all. For Bush Jr, it was Cheney up the chain and in the know. Imho.

[Robin]

I should mention that it is good for old concepts and old prophecies to be brought back into the debate circle.

For all you "seasoned veterans" of topics such as the validity of David Wilcock, you bring a certain level of understanding, wisdom, and awareness to the table.

But I would argue that "newer followers" of the same topics bring a renewed vigor to the table. People who have recently become awake and aware are not inhibited by the frustrations of failed prophecies and predictions that seasoned veterans hold. We bring a passionate discourse on dusty and ragged matters like ascension that allows the topic to be discussed again and again. To me, though redundant to you, this is extremely critical. Otherwise we fall into an apathetic society. ;)

Thomas Jefferson believed that the US Constitution needed to be examined roughly every 20 years to update any wording to fit the changing times, though still holding the principle of the freedoms it holds. In essence, it is a living document:




"I am certainly not an advocate for frequent and untried changes in laws and constitutions. I think moderate imperfections had better be borne with; because, when once known, we accommodate ourselves to them, and find practical means of correcting their ill effects. But I know also, that laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths disclosed, and manners and opinions change with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also, and keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy, as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors...[it] will be said it is easier to find faults than to amend [the Constituion]. I do not think...amendment so difficult as is pretended. Only lay down true principles, and adhere to them inflexibly."

Though, this also means that said document can be easily corruptible...as we have seen.

BUT, I believe that Mr. Jefferson would agree with me when I say that balance is the key to any society. Seasoned veterans can learn as much from newer followers as vice versa. By both parties balancing one another in discussing topics such as David Wilcock, with a renewed vigor and from time to time, no secrets will go unseen.
:wizard:

[RMorgan]

Hey Sam,

My friend, this "seasoned members" thing is only valid regarding certain aspects. Of course, absolutely, it doesn't, by any means, implies that one is wiser than the other or something like that.

In this specific case, this concept is mostly valuable because there's been a lot of discussion about David Wilcock in the past here, with a lot of solid data and facts presented, and a lot of solid conclusions could be achieved from such discussions.

Such threads and discussions are most likely lost among countless others, so new members most likely will not have the opportunity to read them at first, unless they look for them.

So, a lot of members have simply turned the page regarding this issue, and they had good reasons for that, not frustration, but solid reasons. Naturally, new members are not aware of that because they didn't have the opportunity to participate in such discussions.

The same goes for a few other subjects. "Seasoned members" have already discussed a few specific issues several times and eventually achieved a conclusion about them, based on facts and evidence. Very often, new members will bring one of these subjects back, unaware that people have already invested countless hours of their lives to seriously investigate them, like, as an example, Drake, Cobra, Galactic Federation of Light, John Kettler, Nancy Lieder, ZetaTalk, etc...

You may have noticed that most of us use a very investigative approach to any subject here, ideally unbiased and detached. This is rare among this kind of forums. This approach has allowed us to find many answers, but of course, it leads to heated discussions sometimes, since we're all emotional beings.

Some people come here to find like minded people to confirm their beliefs. Some people come here to confront their beliefs. Some people come here looking for something to believe. Regardless, they're treated equally and respectfully.

Of course, new perspectives about a subject are always valuable, but what's new for some may not be new to others who might have already examined such perspective and achieved a fact base conclusion about it. It doesn't mean such conclusions are irrevocable, of course. Whenever there are new facts and evidences to be presented, they should be considered, but that's not the case regarding this specific issue.

Cheers,

Raf.

[Robin]

You play a fair hand, Raf. Well met.

I definitely agree. And I am an exception when it comes to passing over old threads of similar topics. I try my best to navigate the forum and read past threads before posting.

That being said, it's just food for thought. I never gave my opinion on this particular David Wilcock update, as you can look back on. Just wanted to throw it out there and let others know what he is up to!

:blabla:

[Carmody]

as an example, Drake, Cobra, Galactic Federation of Light, John Kettler, Nancy Lieder, ZetaTalk, etc...



I don't think I've invested more than a cursory glance at the opening of any of those subjects/threads. I think I spent a total of maybe 20 minutes on Drake, less on cobra, and GFL. The others, I've read the title of the threads, nothing more.

As for David, I still have time for reading bits of David's work, as it has fundamental relevance (it reveals his orientation), and for some/many who come to the idea of a newer and better way of being..his work and musings, it is an integral stage of their growth.

Believe what you will, Raf, but some aspects of David's work are for those who deal with dimensional sensitivities, like second sight, remote viewing, temporal viewing (seeing through time, prediction and whatnot), seeing other beings, being energy manipulators, etc. David is of that type.

And in that fundamental context alone, mixed with his attempts at 'scientific discipline' in research, he emerges as a necessary and real voice in that area. Regardless of his appearance to those who do NOT share any direct and fundamental awareness of humans as multidimensional and multidimensionally sensitive/interacting beings.

Although I repeatedly try, Raf, I cannot explain to you what you do not understand (as a data package for rumination and decision making), but I will not allow your position in this mindset and space of yours, to pose such a view unchallenged. The barrier of 'not knowing/not being', is all yours and that is solely your challenge, not mine. The same goes for toehrs who slam David. th3ey cut themselves off at their own knees by projection that out into the world.

I don't defend what David may be saying, nor do I support it, But i will not waste energy tearing down his voice/word/web presence. Nor will I warn or try to reason people away (or help move people toward him). Self actuated discernment of the individual in all cases, but a flow they decide on their own, the decision and position is theirs. I'll not attempt to steer them, or you.

[transiten]

"Predictions are not set in stone" as billyJ just posted. If you/we can predict the future (a possible outcome) you/we can change it.