The Chandian Effect

[sushil soni]

Faqir Chand (1886-1981), fondly called Baba Faqir Chand, had a large and devoted following in Punjab state of north India. When he began to initiate disciples, something strange happened. His devotees began seeing his form appear while meditating. Others said that this was caused by the blessed food that the Baba gave them. However, Faqir Chand said that he had no knowledge about this phenomenon.

He wrote: “People say that my form manifests to them and helps them in solving their worldly as well as mental problems, but I d not go anywhere, nor do I know about such miraculous instances” (The Essence of the Truth).

He asked himself: “What about the visions that appear to me? Are they a creation of my own mind, and does my guru also not know about his appearances to me?” Fariq Chand said he realized the truth only after he asked this question. So, he wrote: “All manifestations, visions, and forms that are seen within are mental (illusory) creations” (The Secret of Secrets).

David Christopher Lane, Ph.D., who interviewed Faqir Chand, called this phenomenon “Chandian Effect”, so named because Fariq Chand was the first guru to speak at length about visionary manifestations. Dr Lane designates two major factors in these encounters: “1) the overwhelming experience of certainty which accompanies religious ecstasies; and 2) the subjective projection of sacred forms/figures/scenes by a meditator/devotee without the conscious knowledge of the object/person who is beheld as the centre of the experience”.

Sri Ramana Maharshi, when asked about Jesus’ power to perform miracles, said something what Faqir Chand had taught – Was Jesus aware that he was curing men of their diseases? “Such manifestations are as real as your own reality. In other words, when you identify with the body, you are gross objects; when in subtle body or in mental plane as in dream, you see objects equally subtle; in absence of identification as in deep sleep, you see nothing. The objects seen bear relation to the state of the seer. The same applies to visions of God” (Talk with Sri Ramana Maharshi).

So, it follows that in Chandian Effect, the visions or manifestations seen are not of factual but amalgamation of learnt experiences and subjective effects on the learning. No wonder then Catholics will see Virgin Mary and not Lord Buddha, Hindus will see Lord Shiva and not Moses.

It is apparent from above that Faqir Chand was not aware of his miraculous powers. Does it mean that all gurus likewise are ignorant about their healing gifts, etc?

Jesus asked the crowd that followed him: “Who touched me?” Then a woman suffering from flow of blood came up, and by a brief touch from Jesus was cured. At this Jesus said, “Daughter, your faith has made you well” (Saint Mark).

A year after his first meeting with Sri Ramana Maharshi, Ganapati Muni , while meditating in a temple at Tiruvottiyur, felt distracted and longed for the guidance of his guru. At that moment Sri Ramana Maharshi appeared before him in a remarkable outflow of grace. Year later, Sri Ramana Maharshi hinting at this incident, said: “While the body thus descended to the ground it occurred to me that I was at Tiruvottiyur”.

While the Chandian Effect covers almost all transpersonal visions, the experience of bilocation in Sri Ramana Maharshi’s case may warrant further investigation since the “unknowing” hypothesis present by Faqir Chand applies to a majority of cases. Though these visions are seen as projections of one’s own minds, they cannot be subjected to “reality check”. As Dr Lane says, “the object of devotion in these transpersonal encounters, are, for the most part, not aware of their role”.

[skippy]

“All manifestations, visions, and forms that are seen within are mental (illusory) creations” (The Secret of Secrets).

Load the jump program


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9Nh0Fvoe9k

[greybeard]

There are several occasions when Ramana appeared to people who at that time had never met or even seen a picture of him.

Several accounts in this video which is an excellent and full view of the teachings --the main narrator being Ram Das

Its a video I down loaded and watch often.

Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOdtruuWEaA

[Kalamos]

..........

[greybeard]

The enlightened are in a non-locational state.
Within the body and every where else.
I remember reading an Indian Guru saying "I am the totality all of it"
This is beyond the mind to comprehend.
Being, if its true, that there is only one consciousness (I believe this to be so) then its easy for That to seem to bi-locate --in the dream/illusion anything that is dreamt of can happen.
Ramana said that the outside guru is pushing you and the internal guru is pulling you.
The enlightened see no separation. The teacher and the taught are the same.
Ramana being within all---it was effortless for him to see himself through the eyes of the seeming other.
There is no place that "God" is not.
To every question put to him Ramana would say "Find out who you are first"--the question became totally redundant when the Self is found.

Chris

[turiya]

Beware of imagination.

People like to believe in miracles; hence miracles happen because people like to believe. People feel happy believing in their dreams; they go on giving energy to their dreams. That's how you have lived for many, many lives in a dream world.

Mind is a great liar, it goes on lying to you. Beware of the tricks of the mind. On the path of meditation, on the path of Zen, all imagination has to be avoided. You have to be indifferent about it.

And the more you enter into meditation, the more and more imagination will try to distract you. It is not a new phenomenon, it has always happened. All the great meditators have come across it. Buddha is distracted by Mara, the god of devils. Jesus is distracted by the devil. Sufi mystics are distracted by Satan. There is no Satan, no Mara, no devil -- the real devil is in your mind, the imagination.

There are stories of Hindu seers that when they reach to the final step of their meditation they are distracted by Indra. He sends beautiful maidens, Asparas, to distract them. But why should anybody distract these poor saints? Why? They are not doing anybody any harm. They have left the world, they are sitting under their trees or in their caves in the Himalayas, why send beautiful maidens to them?

Nobody is sending anybody. There is no agency like that. Imagination is playing the last tricks, and when your meditation goes deep, deeper layers of imagination are provoked. Ordinarily, when meditation is not there, you live on the surface of the mind. Of course, your imagination is also superficial then. The deeper you move in meditation, the more the deeper layers of imagination will be revealed to you, they will be more real. They will be so real that you cannot even think that they can be imagination.

Now you can even bring proofs that they are not imagination. For example, this sannyasin who has been hit twice, he can even show his head and you can find the marks. Now, he will say, 'How can it be imagination? Nobody has hit me -- and these marks are here?' Then you ask people who know about hypnosis. In deep hypnosis, the hypnotist suggests that he is putting fire in your hand, and he puts nothing -- but the hand gets burnt. Now what happened? It was just that the imagination worked so tremendously.

The body is also under control of imagination. So if you think yourself beautiful you will become beautiful. If you think yourself ugly you will become ugly. Your imagination will give a mould to your body. That's how there are fire-walkers. If your imagination takes it deeply that you are not going to be burnt and God is protecting you, you will not be burnt. You can pass through a pit full of burning coals without being burnt. But even if a slight suspicion arises in your mind, then immediately you will be burnt. Because that slight suspicion is a loophole in your imagination. Then you are no longer protected by the seal of your own imagination.

So the deeper you go in meditation, the deeper will be the games of imagination. Sometimes it will come as asparas, beautiful maidens, dancing, provoking, seducing you. Sometimes it will come as tremendous fire-monsters throwing fire from their mouths. Or, anything that you can imagine will surround you. And if you get caught into it, if for a single moment you forget that this is imagination, then the imagination has destroyed your penetration into meditation. You are thrown back to the surface again.

But this is a good indication. That you could imagine so deeply shows that meditation is going deep. The deeper the meditation, the deeper will be the imagination. Only at the last point does meditation take over. Until the last, the struggle continues between imagination and meditation. And sometimes the imagination is so beautiful....

There are many beautiful imaginations -- they will come. It is very ego fulfilling. Flowers will shower on you and you can almost smell them. It is possible that you can imagine very deeply that roses are falling on you and you can smell them. That's okay -- but somebody else passing by your side may be able to smell your roses! Then it becomes tremendously powerful.

It means your imagination is not only passive, it has become active. You are creating a certain smell inside your body by your imagination. Your body has all that the earth has. The earth creates the rose. If the rosebush is not there you cannot smell roses in the earth, there is no smell. But if you put a rosebush there, one day suddenly it flowers and the smell is there. The earth was containing the smell and the rosebush helped the smell to come to an expression. Your body is earth, it contains all that is contained by earth. If your imagination is tremendous, not only you will smell, others also can smell the rose. But still it is imagination. Your imagination functioned just like a rosebush; it helped to express something that was hidden within you.

But on the path of meditation even beautiful experiences like these are to be avoided. Because once you get into them you are getting into the mind, and the whole effort is how to drop the mind, how to get rid of the mind. Once the mind is not there then you are completely separate from the body -- mind is the bridge, mind connects you with the body. Mind dropped, there is the body, the earth, and there is you, the sky -- totally separate realities. Then you have become a witness.

Simply remain aware. Just watch. Whether it is true or untrue is irrelevant, remain a witness. Simply remain a watcher, don't get involved in it in any way and soon it will disappear. And once you have learned the technique of how to drop the games of imagination it is going to be tremendously beneficial to you. Because the more you go into meditation, the more and more imagination will be coming. Stronger and stronger waves of imagination will pass through your being, and you will have to be aware and alert.

If it is difficult for you, impossible for you, then the path of meditation is not for you. Then the path of love, then the path of BHAKTI and devotion, where imagination is not avoided but used, is for you. Then you forget all about zazen, that path is not for you.

Then you forget all about Buddha, Mahavira, that path is not for you. Then you move into the world of Meera, Chaitanya, Mohammed. Then you move into the world of devotion. Remember, one thing can be a help on one path, and the same thing can be a hindrance on another path. For example, there are rails, the train runs on them, they are a help, without rails the train will not run. But if you start moving a car on those rails you will be in difficulty. They are a help for trains but they cannot be a help for cars. Cars need a more free way, more freedom. So remember always, a thing which is a hindrance on one path need not be a hindrance on another path.

SOURCE: Dang Dang Doko Dang, Chapter 2 (http://www.oshorajneesh.com/download/osho-books/zen/Dang_Dang_Doko_Dang.pdf)




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT3izBQfh5M

turiya :cool:

[Cognitive Dissident]

Just to say, this is a really fascinating thread! Thanks everyone. I will have to watch some if the you tubes now hehehe

[Bright Garlick]

Thank you Sushil for your illuminating post. There have certainly been many people like Maharshi and Chand who have also manifested such phenomena. Dadaji (Roy Chowdri) and Mother Meera are 2 who come to mind. Perhaps more often than not these manifestations of will, desire or body represent a creative dynamic between small self and large self, the body of the separate individual and the body of the one god. Dadaji's miracles are particularly spectacular and of them he said He is the DOER, there is no self. Very much Maharshi's sentiments (http://www.dadaji.info/MIRACLE.HTM?id=) .

I would love to imagine that one day in our collective future, we will understand the unity of all consciousness and out of this we will understand that none of us are separate from one another or God.

By the way, your arrival at Project Avalon has created a refreshing voice and an antidote to the doom and gloom of the fearful !

Best wishes, Bright.