Addiction Game

[Dorjezigzag]

Addiction is one of the central Crisis of today, it takes many forms, addiction to alcohol, gambling, drugs, work, internet, television, gaming, almost anything can become an obsession and ultimately an addiction.

There are certain personalities that are more prone to addictions and it is important that we identify them and support them and help them through their difficulties before it is too late.

1DL7SOEKDoc

[Dorjezigzag]

He is monopolizing the forum a bit at the moment but here is what Russel Brand ( recovered addict, if you ever really can) has to say about addiction


What was so painful about Amy's death is that I know that there is something I could have done. I could have passed on to her the solution that was freely given to me. Don't pick up a drink or drug, one day at a time. It sounds so simple. It actually is simple but it isn't easy: it requires incredible support and fastidious structuring. Not to mention that the whole infrastructure of abstinence based recovery is shrouded in necessary secrecy. There are support fellowships that are easy to find and open to anyone who needs them but they eschew promotion of any kind in order to preserve the purity of their purpose, which is for people with alcoholism and addiction to help one another stay clean and sober.
Without these fellowships I would take drugs. Because, even now, the condition persists. Drugs and alcohol are not my problem, reality is my problem, drugs and alcohol are my solution.


Worth reading the whole article
http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2013/mar/09/russell-brand-life-without-drugs

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[Kindling]

Thanks for this thread Dorjezigzag. It seems to me that addiction has been the crisis of our times. It's so personal and so painful. And very effective at targeting those who are the most talented and spiritually intuitive and making them ineffective.

On a more hopeful note, it seems to me that my 15 year old daughter and many in her age group don't seem as vulnerable to addiction. They seem to have been born with strengths and insights that just amaze me. I know that they will still face problems as they grow older, but I know they are very different.

[markpierre]

I think it's important to recognize that all human consciousness is an an addiction to something.
An addiction to being an identified self for one. Your beliefs for another. Humaholics.

Identify just what and how you're addicted first, then you can responsibly support others.
Those 'certain personalities' are more likely more sensitive to the truth of the condition we find ourselves in.
Adjusting to insanity is more questionable to me. I've never met a human who wouldn't benefit from the honesty of recovery.
'Addictions' as we define them as not our own, are a choice and a path that have a low probability of immediate results,
but within that, an extremely high possibility of huge lateral leaps. Those (I am one) people have set the bar high.
Sometimes we succeed with what we have planned for ourselves, sometimes we were a little too ambitious. That doesn't matter.
Unrecognized addictions we regard as normal human behavior, help keep us asleep.

I would just step back and respect them. Step back is the best thing for them, and respect is the best thing for you.
When you've identified someone else as having 'a problem', you've entirely missed the point of it.

[Dorjezigzag]

Thanks for this thread Dorjezigzag. It seems to me that addiction has been the crisis of our times. It's so personal and so painful. And very effective at targeting those who are the most talented and spiritually intuitive and making them ineffective.

On a more hopeful note, it seems to me that my 15 year old daughter and many in her age group don't seem as vulnerable to addiction. They seem to have been born with strengths and insights that just amaze me. I know that they will still face problems as they grow older, but I know they are very different.

Thank you for your heart felt post

It is good to hear that your daughter and her friends are so strong

It is most parents worst nightmare that there child is lost to extreme addiction, as not only will it ultimately lead to a premature death but the path will involve so much pain and suffering. I have seen so many beautiful people lost to addiction and as you say it is often the sensitive ones.

I think what often happens though is when someone becomes an addict they almost become an ‘other’, they are no longer treated as human.

At the time they need the most help most people step away from them and turn their backs. In a way you can understand it because addicts will lie and cheat and steal, but I know if my son ever has the problems I have seen in others I will always be there for him, it does not mean I am going to be a walkover, I can’t force him to do anything but I can try to make him face the reality.

[Dorjezigzag]

I think it's important to recognize that all human consciousness is an an addiction to something.
An addiction to being an identified self for one. Your beliefs for another. Humaholics.

Identify just what and how you're addicted first, then you can responsibly support others.
Those 'certain personalities' are more likely more sensitive to the truth of the condition we find ourselves in.
Adjusting to insanity is more questionable to me. I've never met a human who wouldn't benefit from the honesty of recovery.
'Addictions' as we define them as not our own, are a choice and a path that have a low probability of immediate results,
but within that, an extremely high possibility of huge lateral leaps. Those (I am one) people have set the bar high.
Sometimes we succeed with what we have planned for ourselves, sometimes we were a little too ambitious. That doesn't matter.
Unrecognized addictions we regard as normal human behavior, help keep us asleep.

I would just step back and respect them. Step back is the best thing for them, and respect is the best thing for you.
When you've identified someone else as having 'a problem', you've entirely missed the point of it.

We can make the spiritual connection between addiction and attachment. When we become heavily attached we lose our connection to the now

But

To say that all human consciousness is an an addiction is actually the opposite of the truth. Human consciousness is not addiction, addictive consciousness is an addiction.

Take a look at this persons arm,
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSrOnz64t3WURobzkE84H3eo-8Ny-JvFY1UmAXIfZLm9lzPgGGv


Would you say they have a problem? Of course they do
so no I don’t think I have missed the point I think you have

While I am writing this I am actually having a drink, I can do that but if I invited some of my friends around, including Russel and I offered them a drink and they took it, all hell would break loose for the next 48 hours and probably for much longer and it would take them months, years to recover if they ever did. This is a problem and until they admit it they will not help themselves, this is the basic tenet of the AA.

I am not an physically addictive personality but I was very self destructive for many years, I hung out with many addicts including girls I have loved who had the most undignified of lives which predictably ended tragically. There was a time when I was unable to help people, now I can and I have. I have because I have not stepped back .

I have no respect for their addiction, but I do have respect for their humanity.

[chocolate]

Wasn't there a thread about addiction already? http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60473-Lets-talk-about-Addiction...

[Kindling]

"There was a time when I was unable to help people, now I can and I have. I have because I have not stepped back .

I have no respect for their addiction, but I do have respect for their humanity."

Wow, Dorjezigzag, this is the perfect place to be to meet the needs of an addict. I admire you for getting there. I'm sure it wasn't an easy thing! Thanks so much for sharing this insight. With this firmly in mind I know we can help more people.

[markpierre]

To say that all human consciousness is an an addiction is actually the opposite of the truth. Human consciousness is not addiction, addictive consciousness is an addiction.



As human consciousness functions from within the parameters of it's understanding, it's also subject to a simple single mandate, in that it can only act in what it perceives is in it's own best interest.
Sometimes that's having no clear choice. Sometimes not choosing. Substance abuse is more of the latter.
That might be 'have a drink, pop a pill, go to church.' It's not as subjective as you'd like it to be. The superconscious isn't confused. Human consciousness is.
You're attached to your beliefs, you're attached to the thoughts you have about your beliefs. You're attached to rejecting whatever confronts your beliefs.
You're attached to the idea there's a 'you' that depends on evaluating what you perceive, and what you think by believing in what you see.
You can change your mind about what your best interests are. The church-goer might struggle more with changing their mind than someone who can't find a fix. The church-goer is more acceptable and justified in his beliefs.
That shouldn't be interpreted as churches are bad, and neither are substances that can be abused in themselves.
Drain cleaner isn't bad. Drinking it might be unwise.
The choices are the issue. That's what you came here to learn. Do you want to take those away from each other?
In that, 'change' is more available and more experiential for the 'addict'. Drain cleaner would be even more obvious and immediate.
They're not swapping beliefs, they're confronted with death. That's a clearer choice.
Your example is a good illustration of how out of control it can be. That individual has a distinct advantage over a brooding dissatisfied yet seemingly well adjusted member of a spiritually corrupted society. The 'problem' isn't the effects of the substance he abuses. The 'problem' is the same as it is for everyone. Self love, self acceptance, misunderstandings, too limited a view. Losing attachment is an effect, not a cause.

'Addict' is my most useful credential. I didn't earn that by observing it, and you can't. I chose between death and life, though I don't really regard human existence as what 'life' is. It's an aspect of a totality. It can represent life, which in my experience is joy and freedom that can't be controlled or contained. That's what we're attempting to achieve, whether that's an obvious or appealing goal or not.
But it won't happen in 'them', it'll happen in you.


I didn't miss any points, I made one. But point taken I guess. Get out there and do as much good as you can.
But start with yourself, because that's where it ends.

[Dorjezigzag]

I always associate being human with kindness and compassion

The adjective 'humanitarian' means 'promoting human welfare and social reform', and 'humane' means 'characterized by compassion, sympathy, or consideration for humans or animals'.

An extreme addict eventually loses most of their humanity, but there is always hope they can find it again

It is not easy but we should aspire to be human, there is not one size fits all, I have certain strengths and weaknesses, others have others but know thyself, so that you may be human.

I find a drink now and then helps me relax and makes me a better person for others it will turn them into a monster.

Thanks for this conversation Mark Pierre, I actually think it has helped me find a bit more of my humanity

[Bubu]

Addiction is one of the central Crisis of today,



We kept doing the same thing because we have the liberty to do so. In an off grid village that is not allowed because people will die of hunger. They have to sow the fields, in the tune of "imagine: by J Lennon probably. Instead of just going to the supermarket and exchange food for some paper. They have to laundry the clothes in the river, doing some Elvis, perhaps. Instead of just stuffing them to the wash machine and get back to addiction. The society had lost the balance. It creates the overly comfortable and the overly taxed, mostly.

But the real problem is that we are not yet sufficiently evolve to understand this things. Which is not a problem really but rather part of growing up. so "don't worry be happy"
we'll get there soon.

[Delight]

Maybe the legal aspect of the addiction game is changing to uncover new treatment options? Ibogaine is in the Village Voice today.

http://www.villagevoice.com/2013-11-13/news/dimitri-mugianis-mobengo-ibogaine-shaman-drug-bust/


Bwiti practitioners use the psychedelic, dissociative root bark of the Tabernanthe iboga plant, specially cultivated for the religion, to promote radical spiritual growth, to stabilize community and family structure, to meet religious requirements, and to resolve pathological problems. The root bark has been consumed for hundreds of years in a Bwiti rite of passage ceremony, as well as in initiation rites and acts of healing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bwiti



Outside Africa, iboga extracts as well as the purified alkaloid ibogaine are used in treating opiate addiction. The therapy may last several days and upon completion the subject is generally no longer physically dependent.[3] One methadone patient said in the Dutch behind-the-news show NOVA that in just four days he reached a state that normally would have taken him three months, but without the agony. Evidence suggests that ibogaine may also help to interrupt addiction to alcohol and nicotine. The pharmacological effects are rather undisputed with hundreds of peer reviewed papers in support but formal clinical studies have not been completed.....

Iboga is outlawed or restricted in Belgium, Poland, Denmark, Croatia, France,[4] Sweden, and Switzerland. In the United States Iboga is classified by the Controlled Substances Act on the list of schedule I drugs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabernanthe_iboga

The article concerning Dimitri Mugianis' (http://dimitrimugianis.com/) arrest in a Seattle DEA sting and the subsequent light sentence of 45 days house arrest and $25.00 fine seems to be a sign that the drug as part of the Bwiti (Gabon) religion may challenge its Schedule I status?

I know someone who kicked a heroin addiction. Ibogaine does work.

My girl friend's son went to Costa Rica and came home physically clean. Home from treatment to his old friends and lifestyle, he refused aftercare. He went back to heroin (Arrested for selling, now he is in jail and status unknown about the heroin).

Relapse is the major problem. People are needing A NEW LIFESTYLE and need to be willing to change the geography. It is said that geographic cures will not necessarily change an addiction but that also works in reverse.

A treatment of the physical will not change the cues that led to starting the drug. It is next to impossible to withstand the peer pressure of lifestyle and friends still in the drug culture.

The article mentions the ritualistic aspects of drug use. Drug use includes the community aspect and the sense of almost spiritual connection which people access with an initial intensity...some sense of wellbeing that erodes with the first hit. This is a hit people chase then later they can only fend off the lows that follow.

In Gabon, I think that Ibogaine is used to keep neurochemical receptors clear while the religious aspects create a ceremonial connection to community. I'd like to know first hand except I am in the US. My thinking more and more is that people should look at religion as a politically protected structure. It COULD be used for legal reasons that support humanity in the US just as the old religions have used it...

Dimitri Mugianis, thanks!