What happens if the lights go out and there is nothing?

[jagman]

I truly believe in a creator but I have had my doubts from time to time.
What if there is no afterlife? What if there is no reincarnation? what if
there is no god or source? What if the white light that people have
reported is just the brain firing it's last gasp of energy?

I want there to be more!!! I hope there is more. I pray there is more.
I know if our creator is watching he is disgusted with us.( In general)
In my belief system, we are not suppose to challenge god and I'm not.
I would just like to have some kind of definitive proof.

I really don't understand how atheists handle their own belief system?

[Kalamos]

..........

[markpierre]

I truly believe in a creator but I have had my doubts from time to time.
What if there is no afterlife? What if there is no reincarnation? what if
there is no god or source? What if the white light that people have
reported is just the brain firing it's last gasp of energy?

I want there to be more!!! I hope there is more. I pray there is more.
I know if our creator is watching he is disgusted with us.( In general)
In my belief system, we are not suppose to challenge god and I'm not.
I would just like to have some kind of definitive proof.

I really don't understand how atheists handle their own belief system?

I've met God jagman, don't worry. God really likes you. I mean REALLY likes you. More even than I do.

[Wind]

I think all of us have our doubts from time to time... Yet I am not afraid of the option that I would "cease to exist", I just don't believe in it. Something nonexistent can't think or be afraid, that's what we humans do. I believe in purpose and I think that there is enough evidence to prove that there is an afterlife and everything is being designed by an everloving creator. Call it what you will. The real you never dies.

"So then, when you die, you’re not going to have to put up with everlasting non-existance, because that’s not an experience. A lot of people are afraid that when they die, they’re going to be locked up in a dark room forever, and sort of undergo that. But one of the interesting things in the world is–this is a yoga, this is a realization–try and imagine what it will be like to go to sleep and never wake up. Think about that.

You see, you can’t have an experience of nothing; nature abhors a vacuum. So after you’re dead, the only thing that can happen is the same experience, or the same sort of experience as when you were born. In other words, we all know very well that after other people die, other people are born. And they’re all you, only you can only experience it one at a time. Everybody is I, you all know you’re you, and wheresoever beings exist throughout all galaxies, it doesn’t make any difference. You are all of them. And when they come into being, that’s you coming into being."

~ Alan Watts

mMRrCYPxD0I

[161803398]

My dad started on that line of thinking when I was about 8 years old. He used to ask me all the time if there was a God...not if I thought there was one...but if there was one....because he thought I knew. I told him there was a God whenever he asked me. One night we watched that movie about Houdini's life. Houdini promised to come back but never did. I told my dad to come back when he died. There wasn't much more thought to it than that because i was a kid. But about 3 days after my dad did die many years later my three year old neice came out on the porch where I was sitting. She would normally sit in my lap but this time she sat across from me and said "auntie...I have something to tell you" I asked her what it was and she made a face and a hand gesture exactly like my dad and said words he used to say to me when i was a kid. I asked her who told her that and she said "grampa bill told me that in the car". I thought maybe my dad had told her that before he died but then I remembered my dad had been unable to speak at all since before my neice was born. He'd been in the hospital all her life...essentially unable to move. Then she asked me to list off the relatives who were still alive in Ireland and kept asking "is there anyone else..is there anyone else" as I named them. She wasn't acting like a kid then... Come on, she was three. What was that?

[Milneman]

I truly believe in a creator but I have had my doubts from time to time.
What if there is no afterlife? What if there is no reincarnation? what if
there is no god or source? What if the white light that people have
reported is just the brain firing it's last gasp of energy?

I want there to be more!!! I hope there is more. I pray there is more.
I know if our creator is watching he is disgusted with us.( In general)
In my belief system, we are not suppose to challenge god and I'm not.
I would just like to have some kind of definitive proof.

I really don't understand how atheists handle their own belief system?

Why do people keep asking questions about such deep philosophy that I love so much, and feel so compelled to answer?

jagman....hugs. Here's what I believe. If it works for you, take it. If something else you read here or elsewhere works, take it. If you experience something here or elsewhere, take it.

I know a lot of people have issues with this argument, but the bottom line is a lot of philosophers and theologians believe, as do I, that as of yet no one has come up with a good argument against it. Even Stephen Dawkins doesn't really deal with it sufficiently. So get ready. It may make your head spin.

1. Imagine a being, that which none greater can exist. In other words, if you can imagine a being which has any kind of flaw, you don't have the being which none greater can exist.
2. Take that being, and imagine that there is another being that exists. But instead of existing simply in the mind, that being actually exists.
3. Therefore, God exists.

I may have butchered it. It's the ontological argument for God's existence.

Doubt is normal. It's part of our human condition. Everyone I think worries about these things. I know I certainly do!

If there is no afterlife, or reincarnation, or god, or source, or any of it, then we have one crack at this life. There will be no second chance, this is not a rehearsal. At this point a lot of people say, good grief look at all the time I've wasted! If you're one of these people, think instead of all the time you have to do it better.

Challenging God is normal too I think! I get angry at God all the time! But I step back, and realize that if I really look deeply enough at my actions, into the heart of who I am, the truth has and will always be there. And it will be for you too. :)

Or...another way of looking at it....

What is the number one?

It's an idea.

Where do ideas exist?

In minds.

If every human (let's limit to humans for this lol) mind ceased to exist, would the number one cease to exist?

I don't thinks so. :) I think the number one is eternal and unchanging.

So who's mind does the number one exist eternally and unchangingly in?

PM me any time. Reading list available. :)

[sdv]

If there is no afterlife, if you cease to exist when you die, you will have no consciousness, no awareness, and so there will be no suffering, but also no ability to affect anything. All the more reason to explore and enjoy and experience consciousness when you are alive, and to do with your talents and abilities what you feel you should be doing! (Personally, this is the challenge for me ... to make the most of my talents and abilities while my consciousness is in this physical body.)

However, if your consciousness does continue to exist after physical death, I think it is a good idea to make some kind of preparation by questioning as you do. Would you hand over the keys to a car to an 18-year-old (16 years old in USA) and say go forth and drive, in the traffic, if that 18-year-old had never been taught to drive, had never actually travelled in a car without a blindfold and ear muffs? To me, that is what people who ignore the possibility of an afterlife do.

I once sat on a cliff overlooking the sea and tried to imagine and experience what it would be like to have the consciousness of a drop of water in the ocean. A curious dassie (rock hyrax) interrupted me as I suddenly noticed her staring at me. Turns out she was the lookout and when her companions joined her and found me sitting there, there was much loud alarm and remonstrating of the lookout because she had not sounded the alarm ... human! But, I was struggling to imagine having the consciousness of a droplet of water anyway!

[sheme]

http://www.askteal.com/videos/happiness-and-how-to-find-happiness-war-and-creation-of-reality

3 minutes just for you Jagman.

[ghostrider]

the life never ends , really there is no afterlife per say , you just change form to a spiritual being , still alive , still aware , just in the form of spiritual energy ... then back to a body to gain more experience , then back to a spirit , to eventually reach the level where you no longer need a body , and you are absorbed into creation itself ... one must experience every emotion, problem , thoughts , from all angles and perspectives ... I suspect someone has reached another level , and being in a body at this time seems a little mundane , as you are ready for the next transition in awareness ... patience my brother , the process is tried and true ...

[tonyp]

In one of my many moments I was sitting in my living room with entities, aliens, FA ,S ...whatever they is they is, anyway they all manifested in groups in various, a chessboard , a fold away pool table behind my sofa, my funky looking fake wood burner, my equally coffee table and candle lit amber stone tray, my inscense burner with funky precious crystaline rocks, my wicker type four drawer thing with set of pool balls on top....etc etc...anyway...they were all giving each other serious stern looks as if they didn t like each other. Anyway I forget to mention my electric water feature which had one red dragon and one green dragon in a mocck type rock formation, I was drawn to a young lady in my water thing who said she was ab elf, I love elves, anyway she asked me to heal her friend. I tried but realised after maybe an hour that I had been drawn into their conflict. After defeating my first opponent I was physically drained and I told everyone in the room that I was not going to fight their battles anymore..

.anyway an apparation appeared above my wicker thing , a long haired white male with the words God loves you with tears running down his cheek and then with a smile disappeared. hmmm I thought.

So to add my bit to this thread I have had countless bizarre experiences and trust me when I say I am fully concious with all my experienes, I have weird dreams also but I prefer real time experience....and on a note of levity which is how I deal with all my visitors ..it would appear God is a male... how disappointing I was hoping for a sexy female bint. : )

ps : I am totally irreverent to all Gods and when I meet my Creator he or she needs to have viable explanations for all that is wrong

[Crystine]

I think all of us have our doubts from time to time... Yet I am not afraid of the option that I would "cease to exist", I just don't believe in it. Something nonexistent can't think or be afraid, that's what we humans do. I believe in purpose and I think that there is enough evidence to prove that there is an afterlife and everything is being designed by an everloving creator. Call it what you will. The real you never dies.

"So then, when you die, you’re not going to have to put up with everlasting non-existance, because that’s not an experience. A lot of people are afraid that when they die, they’re going to be locked up in a dark room forever, and sort of undergo that. But one of the interesting things in the world is–this is a yoga, this is a realization–try and imagine what it will be like to go to sleep and never wake up. Think about that.

You see, you can’t have an experience of nothing; nature abhors a vacuum. So after you’re dead, the only thing that can happen is the same experience, or the same sort of experience as when you were born. In other words, we all know very well that after other people die, other people are born. And they’re all you, only you can only experience it one at a time. Everybody is I, you all know you’re you, and wheresoever beings exist throughout all galaxies, it doesn’t make any difference. You are all of them. And when they come into being, that’s you coming into being."

~ Alan Watts

mMRrCYPxD0I



Wonderful way to say it. Not annalogy. Truth. If more of us really understood this we would achieve bliss in the here and now. Not even more of us. There is only One of is. Hard to fathom .

A course in Miracles reveals this. Only one must act on this perfectly. And all would return to the Creator. Father, mother, God.

[Crystine]

Wind. I am still crying from the profoundness of this.

[Crystine]

I think all of us have our doubts from time to time... Yet I am not afraid of the option that I would "cease to exist", I just don't believe in it. Something nonexistent can't think or be afraid, that's what we humans do. I believe in purpose and I think that there is enough evidence to prove that there is an afterlife and everything is being designed by an everloving creator. Call it what you will. The real you never dies.

"So then, when you die, you’re not going to have to put up with everlasting non-existance, because that’s not an experience. A lot of people are afraid that when they die, they’re going to be locked up in a dark room forever, and sort of undergo that. But one of the interesting things in the world is–this is a yoga, this is a realization–try and imagine what it will be like to go to sleep and never wake up. Think about that.

You see, you can’t have an experience of nothing; nature abhors a vacuum. So after you’re dead, the only thing that can happen is the same experience, or the same sort of experience as when you were born. In other words, we all know very well that after other people die, other people are born. And they’re all you, only you can only experience it one at a time. Everybody is I, you all know you’re you, and wheresoever beings exist throughout all galaxies, it doesn’t make any difference. You are all of them. And when they come into being, that’s you coming into being."

~ Alan Watts

mMRrCYPxD0I

Wind.

This is a beautiful post. As is the video. I am so deeply moved. Thank you. I needed the reminder.

[Nasu]

Great post..

Naval gazing like this is why we formed our religions in the first place, we will always question everything, it is our curse and our blessing..

My own beleaf is that this life is a test, for us to put into practice that we know but circumstance does not permit, do we crumble to circumstance or do we rise to the challenge.. In my humble opinion...

However, if I am wrong, that we are all just a cosmic fluke, an accident being played out through happenchance, design and evolution, then I will still have to chop wood and fetch the water...

The answers you seek are within you at best.. At worst they are imponderables to be passed onto the next generation... N

[tonyp]

The Universe and creation is a truly remarkable and awful place. an interesting concept is that universes themselves need to ascend..so just for one second lets assume our universe is also a baby learning and that we are all here to help our infant universe learn.

[scanner]

Nothing to worry about Jagman , I know this is not the end . I can't prove it to you , but I've meet a few from the other side .

[161803398]

Well! I found all the angels....but in a strange place:

http://www.dose.ca/2013/11/22/jim-wilsons-cricket-recording-sounds-heavenly-choir-opera-singers-mind-blown

or this shorter one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?uFguHRdUlk8


One of the comments:

Plato wrote in Phaedrus: "The story goes that these locusts were once men, before the birth of the Muses, and when the Muses were born and song appeared, some of the men were so overcome with delight ] that they sang and sang, forgetting food and drink, until at last unconsciously they died. From them the locust tribe afterwards arose, and they have this gift from the Muses, that from the time of their birth they need no sustenance, but sing continually, without food or drink, until they die, when they go to the Muses and report who honors each of them on earth." [259b-c]

[RunningDeer]

I truly believe in a creator but I have had my doubts from time to time. What if there is no afterlife?

Hi JagMan,

God/Higher Consciousness leaves messages everywhere and often through our loved ones that have passed over. I’ve shared these two before, so here’s the CliffsNote version.

It was the night before my son, Michael’s burial. After a whole lot of pillow screams, sobs, and requests to die, my bedroom filled with a beautiful blue. Michael reminded me this was the plan we set up.

Fast forward, minutes maybe more, I grabbed the book, “Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah," by Richard Bach. I’d ask a question, open to a page and point. The perfect answer came through.

Then, I was ‘directed’ two floors down to my office. I pulled open the computer shelf and there smack in the middle was a feather. On the book cover was a feather. It was an important turning point in the story of a teacher that died and out of know where a feather floated down to his heartbroken student.

I placed the feather in my power bag after I sealed it in plastic. It brought me strength. A couple of days later, my feather gift was gone. I was okay because it served it's purpose.

Through whole mourning process, many things like that happened. Our feather visits continue. He’s but a thought away or more to the point, before the thought is finished.


http://paula.avalonlibrary.net/Recovered/feather_zpsc34713cf.JPG

One other example. (names are changed):

My sister, Cindy and I were coming back from a long weekend. I was prompted by Betty, another sister, who passed away several years early, to share what I felt. So I told Cindy that Betty was with us the whole weekend. She agreed but it was more out of courtesy.

I added that she’s here now in the back seat. Then out of the blue, silly putty popped in my head. Betty prompted me one last time. I continued, “She wants me to ask you about silly putty?”

Cindy reaches into the console between our seats and pulls out silly putty. Unbeknownst to me, Betty had given it to her a year before her passing. It was a reminder for Cindy to play.


http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/images-2-2.jpg http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/images-1.jpg

There’s been enough synchronicities in my life that I don’t question it any more. But, I get impatient with this game of hide and seek, especially the last three or four months.

I have no doubt there’s more than this teeny life. After the body says nighty-night for the last time, Soul will continue it’s journey like it does now, only without the frequent fill-ups at the gas pump.

Hearts,
Paula

[Snowflower]

Each one of us that has received a visit from across the veil, or has visited for a short time across the veil, is absolutely certain life continues. We can tell our stories, but to someone who has not experienced it, they are just stories - something to hope is true, but without absolute certitude. Your choice is to simply accept the stories as truth, reject them as hugely unlikely, or - with the potential of getting more than you wanted - ask for the truth to be shown to you.

My father visited me a week after he died, giving me the same words he gave to my brother, my mother, and my sister during their visit from him. The words were, "but I'm not dead, Lua, I'm not dead. I'm with God and I'm very happy." as he said this, I saw a light that came from behind him, and THROUGH his shoulder, toward me. It has been 50 years and I still remember that light.

Almost 20 years later, someone I loved very much was murdered. I mourned so hard for so long I made myself ill. Seven months. Then, I was in a deep meditation (shortening the story) and was suddenly on my knees, holding onto his hands as tightly as I could. He said to me, "you have to let me go, Lua." I said, "Dan, I can't let you go until I know where you are." I was instantly "there." He was standing in front of me, with one arm around his spiritual mother, who had been killed in a plane crash in the 50's, and the other around a man whom I knew to be alive and well in Israel. They were all grinning broadly at me, then they turned and began walking toward a city off in the distance. I looked around and there were flowers blooming on grass covered hills. They were so beautiful, it almost hurt to look at them. Dan and I had had a lively discussion the summer before about "seeing" in the next world. He had the contention that we would not have "eyes" like here, and therefore would not "see" there. I had argued that we would see so well, that the flowers would be far more beautiful and colorful than here - and we finished with the agreement that whichever one of us got there first would know the answer and impart it back to the other. Ok, so I came out of the meditation. This happened on a Sunday afternoon. I learned on Tuesday that the other man had died in Israel on the previous Friday. For those of you who are or have been Baha'is, the three were Dan Jordan,( my spiritual father) Dorothy Baker, and Paul Haney.

[Kalamos]

..........

[Johnny]

I truly believe in a creator but I have had my doubts from time to time.
What if there is no afterlife? What if there is no reincarnation? what if
there is no god or source? What if the white light that people have
reported is just the brain firing it's last gasp of energy?

I want there to be more!!! I hope there is more. I pray there is more.
I know if our creator is watching he is disgusted with us.( In general)
In my belief system, we are not suppose to challenge god and I'm not.
I would just like to have some kind of definitive proof.


Dear Jagman.

Here is my point of view:

Without you, there would be no life on earth at all. ...... At least not as you know it, ...... and I am not only talking in details !

I am NOT kidding, try to ponder about it.

It is the same for all beings, and of human beings we are about 7.000.000.000. What a wonderful mixture it is.

There IS an afterlife, as there 'was' a before-life. When we die, it is different for all of us, because (not only) we all have lived in many different point of views.

You want proofs, you are the proofs yourself. I can't tell you how, because only you yourself can give you those proofs.


"I really don't understand how atheists handle their own belief system?"

I am not quite sure how to define an atheist, but I can tell you, I have no religion myself, so it is not a problem for me at all. I only have 'my own problems' :)

There is a saying: "If you always walk in others footprints, then you will never be able to overtake." Now, it is not a question to overtake, neither a question to make your own footprints, but it is a question about to see clearly.

To a start it is rather scary (to make your own way), and one really have to be very very bold, and you will possibly, on and of, think you maybe are going to be crazy, that is quite normal (to think so in the start). It is OK to erase concepts from 'your dictionary' if you have been cheated by them, not that they will ever disappear from you, but you will be total neutral to them.

Kindly regards Johnny

[Elly]

I truly believe in a creator but I have had my doubts from time to time.
What if there is no afterlife? What if there is no reincarnation? what if
there is no god or source? What if the white light that people have
reported is just the brain firing it's last gasp of energy?

I want there to be more!!! I hope there is more. I pray there is more.
I know if our creator is watching he is disgusted with us.( In general)
In my belief system, we are not suppose to challenge god and I'm not.
I would just like to have some kind of definitive proof.

I really don't understand how atheists handle their own belief system?

If there is no afterlife, no reincarnation, nothing after our last breath, then what is there to worry? Anguishes and fears vanish. Thoughts extinct. One would just cease to exist. You won't be there to think about it. There is no point to dwell on this idea in this case.

What happens now? Maybe, with this knowledge, one would live life otherwise and would treat their loved ones better or live to the fullest or not. With the present human psyche, I doubt it would really change a person's way. Atheist's present the same behavior's as spiritual people. Don't they?

I think atheists base their belief system in what that is solid for them, analyzing the world with their five senses, using reason and logic. It's a comfort zone, like any other. The problem is the limitation of the five senses. We cannot see all that surrounds us. We don't have all the facts. There is evidently an unknown part to the world.

It is really frustrating to live without having all the facts, the knowledge, the understanding. But one does go on a plane without knowing how the engine work? I believe it is better to focus more on the now and on improving ourselves in the present. The later happens quite fast anyways.

[Maia Gabrial]

It's kind of funny how people get so scared of a blackout.Electricity's out, so what? Unless you live on life support, it shouldn't be a problem. I've watched the tv series called Revolution and had to laugh at how neglected the country got because nothing electrical or electronic worked.... We should all ask ourselves questions like these: When the power gets shut down, does that mean our brains will, too? I mean, really? People will stop trying to invent things? People will stop tending their homes? People will let their hygiene slip? I think we'll do better than we think....

[Bubu]

I believe in the afterlife but sometimes doubt sets in too say 90% afterlife 10% non afterlife. But why the heck should I put my energy in worrying about this I do not have power to change it.

[foreverfan]

Looks on the bright side JagMan....

If there is no afterlife, It will be your big chance to get away from it all.

[DeDukshyn]

I truly believe in a creator but I have had my doubts from time to time.
What if there is no afterlife? What if there is no reincarnation? what if
there is no god or source? What if the white light that people have
reported is just the brain firing it's last gasp of energy?

I want there to be more!!! I hope there is more. I pray there is more.
I know if our creator is watching he is disgusted with us.( In general)
In my belief system, we are not suppose to challenge god and I'm not.
I would just like to have some kind of definitive proof.

I really don't understand how atheists handle their own belief system?

I didn't read the thread -- just the OP ...

I was a "believer", had my belief system CRUSHED, became an atheist starting at ground zero, and determined, that if there was more to life than nothing, that I would find the answer. I yelled to a God I didn't believe in, in an absolute sea of feelings of hopelessness, loneliness, and despair to give me any "real" evidence of something more. Just something.

Then piece by piece, and through other humans - without their knowledge even - I was presented with this piece of evidence ... then that, then another, then a connection -- an impossible one, it seemed, then another. Then my interpretations of it, the logic of what I was experiencing, then the destruction of known logic, for a larger system of logic began to appear.

I asked (demanded), and the Universe answered ... it took a couple years for me to be convinced, but without any reliance on outside sources, no religion, no new age, no nothing, just me and my experiences, I began to see the light, to see the underlying fabric behind reality. I could see it clearly all connected behind the scenes - occasionally we see some of that connectedness, and write it off as coincidence ... the learning that there is no coincidence ... was, for me comforting. Not because I was told .. because I fully experienced it.

In short -- the answer you might find to give you total confidence in "more" may perhaps only be attained by your experiences. And if your experiences aren't doing it - it is the perception of what you are seeing that may well be wrong. My broken belief system caused me to have no pre - defined perception. I saw as a child, and then I could see more, much more, than any of my pre-definitions of anything I was previously experiencing.

My 2 cents, what I went through sounds similar to what your are going through ... just sharing how it went for me ... ;)

PS - the Creator is not disgusted in us in any way whatsoever (its completely illogical). The goal of the Creator is experience. Humans were created (in a sense) to give the Creator experience within the physical realm of space and time. The project is roughly on track (a few late hiccups in the grand scheme ;)).

[Mark]

I've met God jagman, don't worry. God really likes you. I mean REALLY likes you. More even than I do.

Ditto, Jag. In my research and experience, everything points to energy being neither created nor destroyed. Just accepting that basic scientific axiom leads inexorably to every other spiritual postulate. The faith of a mustard seed, indeed.

:wizard:

[carriellbee]

jagman, I've experienced it and I know. You are eternal. I do understand how it is incomprehensible if you have not experienced it yourself, though. I used to think like you do. I hope you can trust what I am telling you. Be not afraid...


I truly believe in a creator but I have had my doubts from time to time.
What if there is no afterlife? What if there is no reincarnation? what if
there is no god or source? What if the white light that people have
reported is just the brain firing it's last gasp of energy?

I want there to be more!!! I hope there is more. I pray there is more.
I know if our creator is watching he is disgusted with us.( In general)
In my belief system, we are not suppose to challenge god and I'm not.
I would just like to have some kind of definitive proof.

I really don't understand how atheists handle their own belief system?