Antonio Banderas Speaks Out

[seleka]

http://www.thelocal.es/20131120/chvez-ideas-wil-solve-crisis-antonio-banderas

"Spanish actor Antonio Banderas surprised CNN viewers when he criticized US President Barack Obama and suggested Europe and the US should apply the same economic policies as Venezuela’s late president Hugo Chávez."

I didn't realize the video was in Spanish... looking for an english version

This page has more of the text- http://freepatriot.org/2013/11/23/antonio-banderas-calls-for-a-socialist-takeover/

"

In an interview with CNN en Español’s Ana Pastor, actor Antonio Banderas cautioned the power corporations have, contending that government takeovers of corporations, “like Chavez did,” are the only answer.

“What other way is there?” the actor questioned.

In the interview, for Pastor’s program Face to Face, Banderas’ political comments are triggering a firestorm of criticism on the net. Echoing the beliefs of the Occupy movement, Banderas says that “you get the sense lately that, possible, in the whole world, we are not being governed by the people we voted for,” indicating that corporations are running the government. He also cautioned that the “lobbies” and corporates he believes are running the government “don’t have to show their face” regardless of their actions.

Having said the problem, Pastor asked Banderas for an answer. “You break it like Chavez did in his time,” he responds. “You say, ‘the topic is over. I’m taking all these corporations and nationalizing them.’” He asks, “What other way out is there?” He additionally praises Chavez by calling this century a “post-democratic era,” and cautioning the inevitable corporate corruption of President Barack Obama. Citing that people expected change with his election, Banderas said he never had hope: “I said ‘no, no, no,’ because he is going to encounter reality.’”

Banderas: You get the sense lately that, possibly, in the whole world, we are not being governed by the people we voted for.

Pastor: Above them, there is something else.

Banderas: Of course.

Pastor: The markets.

Banderas: The markets, the lobbies, the corporations– there is a lot of hustle there. And, on top of that, people who do not have to show their face to take responsibility for what happens later in governments, in countries.

Pastor: But there is also consent, no? It forms part of the system, the inertia you were talking about. How do you break that inertia?

Banderas: You break it like Chavez did in his time. You say, ‘the topic is over. I’m taking all these corporations and nationalizing them.’ Where is there any other exit? In a time when we have to stand up, a post-democratic era, because really, you listen to Obama during his first campaign for legislature, even his second, and you think– people were saying, ‘this is going to change.’ And I said ‘no, no, no, because he is going to encounter reality.’ And he faced the reality of the markets."

[christian]

Venezuela is in dire straits, they don't even produce enough toilet paper (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/venezuela-orders-temporary-takeover-toilet-paper-factory-002437055.html). I think Banderas doesn't really know what he's talking about, he's just another well-meaning guy without an understanding of the Corporatocracy that's ruling most of the world, and therefore he's suggesting all the wrong measures to counter the economic disparities he correctly sees. Obama didn't face "the reality of the markets," he's a puppet installed by the cleptocrats that hate free markets. Remember John D. Rockefeller and his saying, "Competition is a sin." I'm not gonna be forced into some well-intended Socialist nightmare state, I want my freedom! Banderas, you blew it, better think again before you spout such nonsense.

[seleka]

I can only focus on one of the things you said right now. It is a quote "Competition is a sin". In the world I see as a place designed for humans and by humans, there is no such thing as competition, it is replaced by cooperation. In indigenous tribes that have not yet 'been tainted with the evil of civilized society' there are no games of 'win' or 'lose', they have no word for 'work' everyone creates together for the good of the whole. This is the only sustainable system for sentient living beings within the parameters of the physical earth. These are the original instructions. To live together freely, helping one another, experiencing the glory of being in a physical vessel.

[seleka]

I noticed a few years ago people like alex jones using the word socialism and associating negative things there. But socialism means joining as one and sharing everything. Of course if it is some sort of totalitarian system run by crooked people that keep most of the stuff... well that is what we have now and that is not working for most of the humans on the planet, not just the americans. Socialism is a good thing in its pure form, the way it is meant to be. I am not sure why the alternative community sought to change its meaning.

[seleka]

toilet paper is an affront to the environment anyway. If it isn't made from recycled paper you are killing too many trees and wasting way too much water in the production... so they use leaves, that makes me like em even better :p I am :hippie: If I could have a toilet outside I would prefer it... one that doesn't put waste in the water our descendants will be drinking.

[risveglio]

I noticed a few years ago people like alex jones using the word socialism and associating negative things there. But socialism means joining as one and sharing everything. Of course if it is some sort of totalitarian system run by crooked people that keep most of the stuff... well that is what we have now and that is not working for most of the humans on the planet, not just the americans. Socialism is a good thing in its pure form, the way it is meant to be. I am not sure why the alternative community sought to change its meaning.

How do you obtain socialism without force?

Read it, is free - https://mises.org/books/socialism/contents.aspx

[christian]

Socialism is a good thing in its pure form, the way it is meant to be. I am not sure why the alternative community sought to change its meaning.

The problem arises when there are people who want to be independent. Will they be forced to participate in the Socialist system? How could that be a good thing, if you have to force it unto people, or else imprison or kill them?

Freedom must be at the basis of everything, I think. Then, people who want to can create their Socialist utopia together with everyone who wants to participate. The others do their own thing.

Maybe check out this thread: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65529-Communism-Capitalism-Marxism-Fascism-Socialism...--and-Obama-


In the world I see as a place designed for humans and by humans, there is no such thing as competition, it is replaced by cooperation.

Now you should take a closer look at the meaning of the word! :wink:

Competition comes from Latin 'com' = ' together' and 'petere' = 'seek'. Seeking together! And even if it is used as in "I want to create something better than somebody else," then this is nothing negative at all, I think, it means progress and innovation.

The problem only arises when people become ruthless and lose their compassion when they compete. But then ruthlessness is the problem, not competition in and of itself! :)


toilet paper is an affront to the environment anyway. If it isn't made from recycled paper you are killing too many trees and wasting way too much water in the production...

Not cleaning my hind end would also be an affront to my environment. :biggrin1:

I do appreciate toilet paper. We could make it from hemp. :)

[chocolate]

This is a quote from Christian (I somehow messed up the quotation, so I will just write the start and end in this way) - >
Socialism is a good thing in its pure form, the way it is meant to be. I am not sure why the alternative community sought to change its meaning.

The problem arises when there are people who want to be independent. Will they be forced to participate in the Socialist system? How could that be a good thing, if you have to force it unto people, or else imprison or kill them?

Freedom must be at the basis of everything, I think. Then, people who want to can create their Socialist utopia together with everyone who wants to participate. The others do their own thing.
<- End of quote

My words: Yesterday I said the same words in a conversation with my father.

New quote -> [QUOTE=christian;762396][QUOTE=karika;762355]In the world I see as a place designed for humans and by humans, there is no such thing as competition, it is replaced by cooperation.

Now you should take a closer look at the meaning of the word! :wink:

Competition comes from Latin 'com' = ' together' and 'petere' = 'seek'. Seeking together! And even if it is used as in "I want to create something better than somebody else," then this is nothing negative at all, I think, it means progress and innovation.

The problem only arises when people become ruthless and lose their compassion when they compete. But then ruthlessness is the problem, not competition in and of itself! :)[QUOTE=christian;762396] <- end of quote

My words: BTW, I come from an actual place where "communism and socialism" were FORCED in a twisted way UNTO us. Hundreds of thousands were killed who did not agree or had a COMPETITIVE and better way of understanding life. So when someone talks about things they have no practical experience of, this makes me SPEAK, something I try to avoid these days.

My comments are in italics.

[ghostrider]

as long as I'm free , put any title you want on it ... any system that keeps the basic needs as their core value , food , water , shelter ... the law applies equal to everyone , people in leadership punished just as those not in leadership ... if you harm another person , steal , or bare false witness who you know , how rich you are , has no bearing ... socialism has failed everywhere it is tried ...long live freedom , free speech , love and compassion ...

[Tesseract]

Does freedom include the freedom to be a socialist? That's a rhetorical question.

[christian]

Does freedom include the freedom to be a socialist? That's a rhetorical question.

Does freedom include the freedom to take away others' freedom? Just as much as it includes the freedom to defend yourself against those who want to take away your freedom, maybe?

[seleka]

I am very confused :confused: by all these responses and am looking forward to learning a lot. Good idea Cristian on the hemp tp! that is a great idea. I think people all are getting hung up on words. words that different people understand to mean different things. Perhaps I am taking a word that means something and using it to explain something completely different. :juggle: might find an old thread that explains it or make a new one so no one else will say bad things about my honey. ;) :eyebrows:

I like smileys! :clap2:

[Camilo]

Banderas is part of the stablishment. He's an "actor", millionaire, highroller. Gimme a break!.... get real!

[seleka]

Banderas is part of the stablishment. He's an "actor", millionaire, highroller. Gimme a break!.... get real!

I do not believe that every actor and famous person is an initiate or an mk ultra slave, I believe some just stumbled in... I believe many have been trying to help the awakening.

[chocolate]

I actually had no intent to "understand" Banderas. He seems like one of those who are not afraid to have a different opinion. A lot of those actors are real people with real understanding. MK Ultra even cannot take that away from the majority of them.

In my view anyone can believe in anything that feels right to them. If you understand and believe in socialism, and if that system can survive if implemented somewhere, than I will not think lesser of you, but often times people who haven't seen the ugliness of this system in real life implementation, they cannot understand my view. Socialism and communism in their ideological state are probably perfect, but if a system cannot prove its value in real situation than it must stay only in the world of ideas.

I do not want people to believe in what I believe, if that thing ever existed, but I am an all-time advocate of freedom in any aspect of life.

Karika, I respect your opinion, but I have lived in what you think is a better system, and can give you examples from the life of myself, my parents, their parents and the parents of their parents that can show you how we probably still don't have the proper base to develop and live in a type of socialism. May be after 500 years or more, when the human becomes less egocentric. Right now everything he does gets twisted in his twisted understanding of what life is all about.

Back to topic.
:o

[gripreaper]

Either socialism or capitalism? Both "isms" are still based on a paradigm of scarcity. Both "isms" are determinate as to who gets what, how resources are distributed, when the issue is:

All means of production are held in trust by the elite few, and all resources flow upstream into the control of these few. If we did not have a fiat currency medium of exchange based on debt with interest paid to these elite banksters, there would be no need to reallocate resources.

Fix this problem, and all your "isms" go away.

[seleka]

...

Karika, I respect your opinion, but I have lived in what you think is a better system, and can give you examples from the life of myself, my parents, their parents and the parents of their parents that can show you how we probably still don't have the proper base to develop and live is a type of socialism. May be after 500 years or more, when the human becomes less egocentric. Right now everything he does gets twisted in his twisted understanding of what life is all about.

Back to topic.
:o

This is what I thought you meant, all the forms of governance so far, though they have called themselves different names have all had a core of elitists that actually controls everything. I am thinking this thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65529-Communism-Capitalism-Marxism-Fascism-Socialism...--and-Obama-) can help me understand more about what exists in the world today. To me, the term means counting everything in the country as belonging to everyone and all have what they need. I am sure it has not existed in the world yet however, by these responses. It is the thing all the communes strove for in the 60's. People living in what are referred to ecovillages and anastasia settlements are doing it in modern times. To me it increases the ability to be 'free' as basic necessities are there and you can 'do art' if you want to. Or maybe you like to build houses, you would hve ccess to the materials nd no costs... my keys r sticng agin l8ter

[Tesseract]

Much of the western world has drifted so far to the right, that any comment (especially by a famous person) with a socialist slant is greeted with some kind of amazement. Just look at the response that occurs when a person with an audience dares to even very casually make a brief excursion from mainstream center-right ideology ideology.


There is a kind of instant, hot-headed lynching type assassination from those on the right, a total intolerance for even the slightest dissent for the system that they perpetuate. While for the very few who remain in the ranks of the left feel like they have just received a gift from the gods.

These reactions are an indictment of our ability and willingness to see flourish an inquisition of our own society, which I think is a rather dangerous state to be in.

[outerheaven]

Well, his message is similar to Russell Brand's. But he didn't execute it with quite the same level of panache, so the suggestion that we flip over to a socialist system stands out more as a haunting spectre, rather than flying under the radar like it did with Brand.

Appreciate the nod that things aren't right, Antonio & Russell, but no thanks to your solutions.

[Violet]

Otherwise, it must be very frustrating for famous people to always have to be politically correct.

[Snookie]

Doesn't the book "Animal Farm" address what happens in a communist (and perhaps socialist) society?

[ponda]

What Banderas said:


Banderas says that “you get the sense lately that, possible, in the whole world, we are not being governed by the people we voted for,” indicating that corporations are running the government. He also cautioned that the “lobbies” and corporates he believes are running the government “don’t have to show their face” regardless of their actions.

I think that this is a good observation to get out into the mainstream.Many people think the government does everything in the peoples best interest and this clearly isn't the case.Also the observation that there is no accountability from the corporations and banks etc is a good one to get out there into the mix imho.



Having said the problem, Pastor asked Banderas for an answer. “You break it like Chavez did in his time,” he responds. “You say, ‘the topic is over. I’m taking all these corporations and nationalizing them.’” He asks, “What other way out is there?”

Well Chavez did appear to have the peoples best interest at heart in regards to some of his actions etc.I'm no expert on what Chavez did or didn't do but nationalizing the banks and corporations might be a quick and easy way to change things.It must be the corporations and banks worst nightmare.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

[snip]
In an interview with CNN en Español’s Ana Pastor, actor Antonio Banderas cautioned the power corporations have, contending that government takeovers of corporations, “like Chavez did,” are the only answer.

“What other way is there?” the actor questioned.

In the interview, for Pastor’s program Face to Face, Banderas’ political comments are triggering a firestorm of criticism on the net. Echoing the beliefs of the Occupy movement, Banderas says that “you get the sense lately that, possible, in the whole world, we are not being governed by the people we voted for,” indicating that corporations are running the government. He also cautioned that the “lobbies” and corporates he believes are running the government “don’t have to show their face” regardless of their actions.


If government takeover of corporations as proposed by Banderas would be helpful to the people, perhaps the first corporation to nationalize should be the privately owned Federal Reserve. Then instead of paying interest on the national debt to line the pockets of some very secretive and extremely wealthy stock holders, the interest could be paid into the U.S. treasury.

Maybe that would end the debt crisis, the payment of interest on the national debt to (mostly) unknown banksters. We would simply pay ourselves instead of unknown banksters.

The banksters would not then be motivated to finance future wars since their profits from war would be severely reduced.

Just brainstormin' here, looking for possible solutions.

[mosquito]

Either socialism or capitalism? Both "isms" are still based on a paradigm of scarcity. Both "isms" are determinate as to who gets what, how resources are distributed, when the issue is:

All means of production are held in trust by the elite few, and all resources flow upstream into the control of these few. If we did not have a fiat currency medium of exchange based on debt with interest paid to these elite banksters, there would be no need to reallocate resources.

Fix this problem, and all your "isms" go away.

Spot on !

(plus extra 10 f*cking characters to make the message long enough to post)

[Carmody]

Number one on the list:

FREE ENERGY.

No more energy control, no energy limit, no scarcity mentality, no more parasite hook, no power hook, no control, no limits.

FREE ENERGY is number one on the list of things to be done.

All else is effect, all else is chasing symptoms.

Everything you want in this world is blocked by those who block free energy systems from coming into the world...and everything you desire....will be freed/opened... by over unity technologies.

So, do you know where to concentrate you energies in order to get this blockage to be ended, this nightmare of small minded animalism, what will you do?

Do folks have what it takes to understand what I'm saying, or will it sound like some idiot rambling about his little pet ideas and solutions?

I mean seriously, worrying about if you are going to have a job next month, whether fukushima is going to blow, whether food stamps are going to end, whether the US is going to implode, of if there is going to be a war in Syria....whether the church will end whether archons exist or not, if the pope did this or that, if someone killed someone else, if politics was this or that, if people would only this or that, all of it, every damned bit if all pales in comparison as source point to be dealt with.

None of them even exist as targets to consider, in comparison to overunity technologies and their importance in freeing humanity.

And I'd bet my life, the life of everyone I know and anyone else whom I can think of, on that point. I'd stake it all.

In essence, in a mind that has analyzed it all, individually and as a package....all the ramifications of the separate components and all the connections..what it means to humanity..it's all there is.

There is nothing else to pursue. Nothing.

Every single facet and component and the sum total of this world situation hinges on and shifts... on overunity technology. The whole damned thing.

[ponda]

Number one on the list:

FREE ENERGY.

No more energy control, no energy limit, no scarcity mentality, no more parasite hook, no power hook, no control, no limits.

FREE ENERGY is number one on the list of things to be done.

All else is effect, all else is chasing symptoms.

Everything you want in this world is blocked by those who block free energy systems from coming into the world...and everything you desire....will be freed/opened... by over unity technologies.

So, do you know where to concentrate you energies in order to get this blockage to be ended, this nightmare of small minded animalism, what will you do?

Do folks have what it takes to understand what I'm saying, or will it sound like some idiot rambling about his little pet ideas and solutions?

I mean seriously, worrying about if you are going to have a job next month, whether fukushima is going to blow, whether food stamps are going to end, whether the US is going to implode, of if there is going to be a war in Syria....whether the church will end whether archons exist or not, if the pope did this or that, if someone killed someone else, if politics was this or that, if people would only this or that, all of it, every damned bit if all pales in comparison as source point to be dealt with.

None of them even exist as targets to consider, in comparison to overunity technologies and their importance in freeing humanity.

And I'd bet my life, the life of everyone I know and anyone else whom I can think of, on that point. I'd stake it all.

In essence, in a mind that has analyzed it all, individually and as a package....all the ramifications of the separate components and all the connections..what it means to humanity..it's all there is.

There is nothing else to pursue. Nothing.

Every single facet and component and the sum total of this world situation hinges on and shifts... on overunity technology. The whole damned thing.

The thing is that the way society etc is set up at the moment Free Energy wouldn't stay 'free' for very long.It would be twisted into a profit and control mechanism.

One of the big problems is that the psychopaths are running the show.This problem has to be addressed before something like Free Energy would benefit everyone IMHO.

cheers

[Dennis Leahy]

Several people on this thread are strongly supporting [____________] <--------- (I know the "-ism" I would use to describe it, but it may not be theirs)

If you feel strongly that there is a specific way that "things should be" or "the way you want things to be", then please, ignore the word "utopia", and describe the way you want things to be. It's not enough to declare what you do not want, declare what you do want.

That thread I started about describing your utopia lacked the input of exactly what I am asking for here. Can you describe it? Can you describe your vision of how you want things to be? Please go to this thread and do so. I need this alternative vision to provide the contrast to what some others were describing.
Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62272-Describe-Utopia.-YOUR-own-vision-your-own-version-of-utopia)

Thanks,

Dennis

[Milneman]

Doesn't the book "Animal Farm" address what happens in a communist (and perhaps socialist) society?

In theory, yes. Snookie I'm not pickin on ya, it's just a great way to get into this thread.

Oh this is going to be a long one folks, hang onto your hats. *rant on*

There's a mix up that happens that until recently, I wasn't aware of either. There's a third way of government that leans a little to the left or the right depending upon the political views behind it. It's called "interventionism" and really, just about every country in the world is exactly that.

Socialism and capitalism at their extremes are not good, but nothing at an extreme is good...well ok, maybe chocolate. With interventionism, you don't need to worry about the extremes because they don't matter. Governments...regulate, take over, get in the way, don't allow an economy to really function. I heard an interesting point about two American presidents who were assassinated. They issued interest free currency. Think about that.

Having said that, I do feel the need, as I always seem to do when people start touting the superiority of socialism, to point out some of the greatest socialists of the 20th century. Adolf Hitler was a socialist, between 15 and 31 million people killed in concentration camps alone: jews, homosexuals, dissidents, anyone who was a threat to the truth of the Nazi regime. Wait, it gets better. Joseph Stalin was a socialist: according to historian, Roy Aleksandrovich Medvedev....get ready...
1 million imprisoned or exiled between 1927 to 1929; 9 to 11 million peasants forced off their lands and another 2 to 3 million peasants arrested or exiled in the mass collectivization program; 6 to 7 million killed by an artificial famine in 1932-1934; 1 million exiled from Moscow and Leningrad in 1935; 1 million executed during the ''Great Terror'' of 1937-1938; 4 to 6 million dispatched to forced labor camps; 10 to 12 million people forcibly relocated during World War II; and at least 1 million arrested for various “political crimes” from 1946 to 1953. Chairman Mao, socialist. Between 45 and 60 million starved to death during the great race to create steel, not to mention the liberation of Tibet from His Holiness, the Dalai Lama and the atrocities that entailed: monks and nuns forced to have sex, children forced to shoot their parents, the list goes on and on. The greatest horror is that families actually were forced to eat their dead children. Pol Pot, 1.7 million, Kim Il Sung 1.6 million *AND COUNTING*.

Which is not to say that so called capitalists have not committed atrocities.

There is a fundamental reason why socialism won't work. There are too many people who would rather live off the profits of other people's labours than contribute.

So if you look at animal farm from an interventionist point of view, and really it is, pigs have been running things everywhere since time immemorial. Even in democracy, which only occurs once every four years before it becomes a dictatorship, pigs run the show. In fact, I think pigs kill presidents. *shrug*

Someone who can REALLY do a better job explaining this is the late Philosopher and Theologian, Dr. Ronald Nash who was a professor of philosophy at Kentucky State University, and lecturer at Reform Theological Seminary in Florida.

7OTYLNzF5Ug

Of course, your mileage may vary. :)

***edit***

On thinking about this today, I'm not sure I can categorize the people I listed as some of the greatest socialists of the 20th century. It might be more appropriate to point them out as interventionists who claimed to be socialist as part of their interventionist agendas.