Beyond Spin and Bull****

[Curt]

Personally, I don’t know anything concrete about the Jesuits and the Rothschilds and the Annunaki and the Martians and the Archons and the 4th Reich. Or whether group A is over Group B in the hierarchy. ...

I don’t know whether secret gold is going to be thrown out of vaults to the masses like turkeys on Christmas morning.

I have theories, but I don’t know.

And I don’t think 99% of the people who speak authoritatively on these subjects know either. Some are spinning tales.

Others pass along bogus information unintentionally. Some may even be coerced to do so.

Many of us here are well past the point of wanting to be entertained by stories. ...

As fun as all the speculation and stories can be, digging down deeper to find real truth would be a lot more fun.

Because as tired as I am of being bull****ted, attempts to do so only confirm my suspicion: all the spin is hiding something real.

What is it? What are its dimensions?

There are a lot of good brains here. And not just logical left-brain types, either. We have the whole spectrum.

Millions of people read this forum.

In order for us to fulfil the mission Bill had in mind when he and Kerry started this movement, we have to up our game.

We have to refuse to be ‘entertained.’ We have to get our kicks another way: by carefully sifting information to find bits of truth.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Attacking messengers isn’t what this is about.

Guilty as charged, yet lack of visible progress despite the amazing stories, will continue to make me act out, not smart but I am not above doing just that, my brainfarts and heartfarts should both have an equal opportunity to be heard, anybody who is NOT in the INNER CIRCLE can and will be abused by those claiming their fifteen minutes of shame, those who CLAIM to be IN the INNER CIRCLE of power and/or knowledge, but are really not, are sh!tting on the trust, hope and faith of the human race as a whole and make things worse rather than better.

The noise of the crickets is deafening.

Most information by whistleblowers so far has proven to be nothing more than anecdotal and very little to show for it, nothing to actually see or touch, false hope and pretenses is what we are given at least 85 percent of the time, I am sick of it, I am even sick of being gagged and being forced to express myself in a politically correct and NICE way and I do have the feeling they whoever they may be may have accomplished their mission.

I am sick of messages of hope because most of them are dope for the masses who actually DO look farther then their noses are long, I am all out off defenses, all I have left are snarky observational remarks, religion doesn't cut it, optimism doesn't cut it, negativism doesn't cut it, new age doesn't cut it and realism gets rejected, so I am basically done for, tired of forgiving, tired of forgetting, tired of being lied to, tired of having to use discernment, tired of pumping myself up to deal with this crap in a rational manner, tired of dealing with it in an irrational manner, as a matter of fact, the practical knowledge I ACTUALLY gained can be counted on four fingers of one hand, the rest is just depressing, half baked spiritual advice, crappy UFO footage by night ( no not you Mojo), archons sucking the life out of everything, people who say they fight 2000 year old magicians at night like its as simple as taking a sh!t and yet we expect to be taken seriously, come on, wtf is going on here, I am pretty sure I am NOT alone in feeling this way.

I for one am happy my underbelly still has a voice, it makes me much less DOMESTICATED.

How about landing here on the planet ourselves before trying to take off with everything that goes against the grain of the mainstream, who the hell needs archons, aliens, Satan or tptb, when we have plenty of ****ed up people just waiting in line to push us farther over the edge of the cliff just to claim fame and scare the living bejesus out of their audience, we are being experimented upon, I'll leave it at that.

[donk]

In order for us to fulfil the mission Bill had in mind when he and Kerry started this movement, we have to up our game.

What movement have you seen that hasn't been compromised by the masters of inserting little "twists" on big truths that make them the complete opposite of what they were originally intended to be?

That's the game being played, on every level of reality I'm able to experience (and I'm guessing "as above, so below"?)

Stay mindful my friend! Nice post

[TargeT]

Since humans are mostly water, and water always seeks the easiest path; well I find it no surprise that a lot of information is not well vetted due to it just taking extra effort.

I'm not sure if the phenomenon (lack of vetting, unintentional disinfo spreading) is a desire to be "first" to bring news/theory to a group/community, or a desire for some sort of notoriety (probably related to the first part of this sentence) or just down right being lazy.

I know I personally have glossed over researching on topics due to the "daunting task" of sifting through information that doesn't hold my interest well, and a few times had to correct myself after the fact when I discovered I had passed on bad info (due to the first part of this sentence).

As for the authoritative approach to these subjects, that's another interesting (ego motivated, IMO) phenomenon among humans; most the time all I am sure of is how much more I could know on a topic.

all that aside, I agree & it seems to me that either there is just mass confusion (globally,) and things just seem to be "more" than they are... or there really is something there, and I am more inclined to think there is something there; though not blind to the possibility that my attraction to these types of topics is widely shared & possibly exploited due to that.

And twisting facts, tweaking info to better fit your agenda (perception of reality)... well that's extremely "human" as well, our perceptions are our world, thus what ever info filters through us is colored.

So is it just mass confusion? what's intentional and what's not?

I guess in the end all I can do is question everything, always (as much as I can bring myself to) and if nothing else, I'll learn a few things here and there.

[Bright Garlick]

Curtis there is but one truth that is worth knowing : What am I ?

And only you can discover that great answer !

:happy:

[Mike]

Nice post Curt.

Did you ever play that game in elementary school where a secret is told to a single student and then subsequently passed from person to person until it has been filtered through each and every student? The msg is inevitably skewed in a significant way. Can you imagine if we did that here?;). a single msg passed along all 5000+ members? I think it would be a really interesting experiment!

So yes, it's not necessarily about attacking the messenger ( though occasionally a dubious messenger can hide behind a phony msg - we've all seen that). Many times it's just imperfect information being made more imperfect as it's passed from person to person. And I think that's an important distinction to make. Countless threads have popped up here calling so n so a "liar" or "disinformer", when in reality their intentions were good; it was simply that their information was misguided.

This doesn't excuse those intellectually lazy types who refuse to do the proper research before spreading info. But it is important to note.

So the $64000 question becomes: when do I share my info and when do I hold off? It's such a fine line. Share too soon and you risk being inaccurate/ irresponsible; share too late and perhaps a large number of people suffer needlessly. Being involved in the alt community, especially as a whistleblower, is an exercise in catch-22 madness.

I'm as sick of all this bullsh#t as you are man. Can't stand it. This field of alternative research is often emotional and intellectual quicksand. Staying with the metaphor, I can only suggest moving incredibly slowly and deliberately, and analyzing each n every morsel of info before making any deliberate moves.

[Curt]

. Being involved in the alt community, especially as a whistleblower, is an exercise in catch-22 madness......

I'm as sick of all this bullsh#t as you are man. Can't stand it. This field of alternative research is often emotional and intellectual quicksand. Staying with the metaphor, I can only suggest moving incredibly slowly and deliberately, and analyzing each n every morsel of info before making any deliberate moves.

I think you're right. And I don't envy whistleblowers in the slightest. They're in deadly serious territory, for just the reasons you've said.

Even apart from having to muster the courage to go public with good info, they have many other things to consider, not least of which is their own personal safety.

I just wish some would be willing to admit they were totally wrong. It happens quite a bit, after all. And it seems mighty rare for an environment where 99% of intel/forecasts end up being totally off.

It would be refreshing for them to say, after they made a huge ridiculous statement that turned out to be false, 'you know what, that thing I said. Yeah. Turns out that was bull****. XYZ gave me that info and I didn't look at it and I got duped.'

Or better yet, 'yeah, my analysis was totally wrong. I didn't factor in ABC, and I was way off. Here's what I'll do differently next time.'

A lot would be forgiven if that happened.

Actually, credit where credit is due, Karen Hudes did recently back off some bad information she got re: rogue comets.

That's a trend I hope will continue.

[donk]

I think more dangerous than "killing the messenger" is "accepting the messenger", whether you are naturally trusting and take everyone at face value, or they "resonate with you" or "seem genuine", or you take their word based on the "integrity" of someone in the community you trust.

I used to go by the old "resonates" thing, there were people who would say they totally feel (or even know) _____ is legit, and I wouldn't bother to vet. Not making that mistake anymore....I don't even completely trust myself (my own perceptions), let alone anyone else.

So I repeat: stay mindful my friends

[Curt]

I think it's the same essential problem. Accepting or rejecting information based on the personality takes power away from the information and makes it more about the person. It's a pretty problematic approach.

Having said that, I understand the desire to occasionally say things like:

_TvHvqhDwYg


I think more dangerous than "killing the messenger" is "accepting the messenger", whether you are naturally trusting and take everyone at face value, or they "resonate with you" or "seem genuine", or you take their word based on the "integrity" of someone in the community you trust.

I used to go by the old "resonates" thing, there were people who would say they totally feel (or even know) _____ is legit, and I wouldn't bother to vet. Not making that mistake anymore....I don't even completely trust myself (my own perceptions), let alone anyone else.

So I repeat: stay mindful my friends

[norman]

I sometimes think there is a cult like conspiracy behind what's going on that actually benefits from the "Project What's Going On" tagging along behind it.

Without it, there wouldn't be a high-noise environment to hide behind.

[RMorgan]

Hey Curt,

I'm with you, mate.

However, in fact, the forum is in a much better shape than it used to be a few years ago. It doesn't mean it's in a good shape either..It's just better than it used to be in terms of the discussion and publication of obvious delusional or fake news.

People are finally realizing that they simply cannot trust all those story-tellers that plague the Alternative Media.

I'm not sure if you noticed, but the forum is very slow currently. People are not posting as frequently as they used to and obvious disinformation topics are not gaining traction anymore.

If you ask me, the forum is slow because once people learn to discern the bullshilt, there's really not much else to talk about in the Alternative Media universe.

Really, people are saying enough is enough. They are not buying it anymore. They're finally seeing the Alternative Media for what it is, or what it has become: Controlled Opposition.

Honestly, I don't know if the Alternative Media started as controlled opposition or if it was gradually corrupted along the years, but I know it's almost completely corrupted now.

I don't know if the main Alternative Media characters are mentors or just being used as pawns in this game either, but I know that, deliberately or not, the way they've been careless delivering fake news and the lack of proper verification of their "sources" is rapidly demolishing whatever's left of the its genuine and legitimate values, if they aren't all gone already.

Many people have been complaining to me via private messages, along the last months, that the forum is currently boring...It's not good to be boring, but it's much better to be boring but truthful than super-exciting and full of shilt.

The thing is, the truth was never supposed to be a constant source of entertainment and excitement, as the Alternative Media is pushing it to be.

Being a truth seeker is much closer to be a wearing, tiring and even tedious process. There's not really a new ground-breaking interview to be published every week...There aren't enough legitimate whistle-blowers to be interviewed every month...There isn't new key top-secret information to be discussed every day.

It's a good sign that you're tired of it all, brother. Once you learn to see things for what they are and realize that you actually have little to none clues about what's really going on in the world, it's natural to get tired...

The fact is that, ultimately, most of us don't have a clue. I have some suspicions, of course, but if you ask about my conclusions, after all these years as a truth-seeker, I admit I have nothing concrete to tell you...Yes...It's tiring.

Cheers,

Raf.

[Cristian]

Oh my...thanks Raf :)

[Cristian]

In other news ... Cabal is in surrender negotiations; told to hand over $700 trillion or $10,000 for each human (http://benjaminfulford.net/) Sure ...yeah ...I dont think so...:(


CONFIRMED: US Military Alliance Defeating Federal Reserve (http://divinecosmos.com/start-here/davids-blog/1145-us-military-fed) ... hmmmmm...no. It sickens me ...all this constant delusion :(

[Cristian]

I'm waiting for the day ...that magic day when David Wilcock , Benjamin Fulford , Ashayana Deane , George Kavassilas and many others stop writing ****...PLEASE GUYS STOP WRITING **** ! Thanks :)

[TargeT]

In other news ... Cabal is in surrender negotiations; told to hand over $700 trillion or $10,000 for each human (http://benjaminfulford.net/) Sure ...yeah ...I dont think so...:(


CONFIRMED: US Military Alliance Defeating Federal Reserve (http://divinecosmos.com/start-here/davids-blog/1145-us-military-fed) ... hmmmmm...no. It sickens me ...all this constant delusion :(

So, how do we deal with these things?

Personally I outright ignore anything from fullford or willcock; do we need to do more?

do we need to try and "help" people see... or perhaps this is just a filtration system, one that needs to be inplace.

Those that are unwilling or unable to pass the various filtration stages/pitfalls (TV, Politics, Religion etc..) probably shouldn't be anywhere but where they are....

This discussion reminds me of the following video:

dy43UEaIWXE

I think this video closely describes WHAT we are talking about, but not necessarily why, how or who.

[Crystine]

Let me start with. apologies. i am not trying to hijack your post. i just thought this was a good place to leave my thought.
LOL
Humph, what's new with you guys today?

I have a pet peeve.

People who park in front of my house all the time. But on the occasion that I have parked in front of their house, they have the nerve to call and ask that I move my car. My take is---------nice people get pushed around. Really nice people get pushed around more. And fed the BS. The "offenders" have reasons for their behavior. Your reasons for yours when confronting them will not ever good enough. In some perverted way you become the boat rocker. The trouble maker. The poop stirrer. When you figure out the solution let me know. I was going to start a pet peeve thread, but I printed my peeve here. You have a gigantic, important PEEVE. Mine is tiny. But the similarity is when you look at it. You are sane. It makes no sense. The observed behavior is frustrating. But your focusing on what you believe is a problem. Becomes the issue. Go figure.

[Curt]

Hey Curt,

I'm with you, mate.

However, in fact, the forum is in a much better shape than it used to be a few years ago. Raf.

I 100% agree with you. There's no doubt in my mind things have improved substantially. People are more savvy now, and that's affected the quality. That's a big point.

[blufire]

I am 200% with you CurtisW.

The frustration level you are expressing I hit more than a year ago.

I voiced much of this frustration on the OP on this thread of mine: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?63837-Imploding-forum-and-the-next-25-years-of-Darkness which was closed.

Raf I also agree much with your post.

The forum is in better shape than it was a couple years ago as far as the BS factor and hype . . . . I just hope than someday the forum can make it over the preverbal hump and on to productivity.

For me personally I have formed ‘templates’ to fit what I feel at this time is happening foundationally on a global scale. I use the templates to gage any information or events that I see that are of interest. These templates have enabled me to sift through the hype and BS and have (for the most part) enabled me to stay more balanced, neutral and clearheaded.

I don’t so much anymore listen to what people are saying . . . . I look at what I see is actually taking place. . . . out in the real world and not the alternative world.

[RMorgan]

The forum is in better shape than it was a couple years ago as far as the BS factor and hype . . . . I just hope than someday the forum can make it over the preverbal hump and on to productivity.


That's a crucial part, blufire. Thanks for bringing this up.

The forum is now in a gray area. People are not buying all the bullshilt and hype as they used to, which is a good and necessary first step, but generally, we don't know where to go from here.

As I said on my previous post, if you remove all the lies, there isn't much else to talk about...It's like we went from step -2 to step 0...We have evolved, but we haven't gone anywhere significant.

It's like an illusionist show. We have already noticed that the illusionist distracts us, making us look to a different direction from where he's performing the trick. However, despite being able to observe the mechanics of the distraction and even the results of the trick itself, we still don't know where and how the trick is really performed.

When I think about it, I realize how efficient the conditioning of our minds really has been. I'm stuck as well...From this point, I feel like trying to break a brick wall with my head. This, obviously, is nothing but the results of their long lasting confusion campaign.

So, if you ask me how could we deliver concrete and productive results based on all the information gathered from our own lives, personal studies and from what's shared in this forum, I also admit I have no idea.

To be honest, since the begining of my truth-seeking process, I didn't manage to find any significant answer...The questions become exponentially more complicated, though....But no answers, so far.

Raf.

[Camilo]

I hear you bud. Welcome to the club.

[Mike]

. Being involved in the alt community, especially as a whistleblower, is an exercise in catch-22 madness......

I'm as sick of all this bullsh#t as you are man. Can't stand it. This field of alternative research is often emotional and intellectual quicksand. Staying with the metaphor, I can only suggest moving incredibly slowly and deliberately, and analyzing each n every morsel of info before making any deliberate moves.

I think you're right. And I don't envy whistleblowers in the slightest. They're in deadly serious territory, for just the reasons you've said.

Even apart from having to muster the courage to go public with good info, they have many other things to consider, not least of which is their own personal safety.

I just wish some would be willing to admit they were totally wrong. It happens quite a bit, after all. And it seems mighty rare for an environment where 99% of intel/forecasts end up being totally off.

It would be refreshing for them to say, after they made a huge ridiculous statement that turned out to be false, 'you know what, that thing I said. Yeah. Turns out that was bull****. XYZ gave me that info and I didn't look at it and I got duped.'

Or better yet, 'yeah, my analysis was totally wrong. I didn't factor in ABC, and I was way off. Here's what I'll do differently next time.'

A lot would be forgiven if that happened.

Actually, credit where credit is due, Karen Hudes did recently back off some bad information she got re: rogue comets.

That's a trend I hope will continue.


a little honesty would be nice:) and yet, I don't view whistleblowers as individuals who require our forgiveness. if we drink the Kool-Aid, we're responsible for the indigestion, right? but I won't get tangled up in semantics here; I see what you're saying and agree entirely.

I do worry sometimes that we regard these folks with excessive reverence. almost as parental figures in a sense. and when we feel betrayed by them, we start threads and demand explanations, apologies, and so forth. how many times have we seen this on Avalon? we expect them to be perfect. poor Bill: not too long ago everyone was demanding an apology from him - right around the "Charles" saga, you couldn't blink without someone demanding he apologize for this or that. it was absurd. and all he was doing - like many of our whistleblowers - was passing along information that he thought might be pertinent. I get concerned when whistleblower information is found to be faulty or not wholly truthful, and a member of the alt community then makes the nuance-deficient leap to declaring the messenger intentionally deceptive or CIA funded or whatever. we must first look at the *intent* of the person coming forward before we hang them here.

Raf is right in the sense that, without drama or bullsh#t, there isn't a whole lot to talk about. virtually everything we discuss is conjecture, which gets pretty damn tiresome. trying to locate anything definitive is like grasping at shadows. it's almost as frustrating as all the bullsh#t you've referenced above. I mean, how many times can we have the same conversation?;) whether consciously or not, inevitably someone will snap and start some crazy thread about Hillary Clinton having 3 tits or something about Barack Obama actually being a reptile from the lower 4th dimension. boredom is the very worst kind of disease! and people will go to the end of their sanity to cure it! the problem is, when you're drowning in outrageousness, everything is fair game; you lose relativity. and it's these cracks where these dubious bullsh#tters sneak in and start diarrheaing all over the forum.

[Curt]

... well I find it no surprise that a lot of information is not well vetted due to it just taking extra effort.

I'm not sure if the phenomenon (lack of vetting, unintentional disinfo spreading) is a desire to be "first" to bring news/theory to a group/community, or a desire for some sort of notoriety (probably related to the first part of this sentence) or just down right being lazy.

I know I personally have glossed over researching on topics due to the "daunting task" of sifting through information that doesn't hold my interest well, and a few times had to correct myself after the fact when I discovered I had passed on bad info (due to the first part of this sentence).

Good point. I've done it, too. And I'm sure through laziness I'll do it again. It's good to be honest about this.

We all have our areas of interest and expertise. I think even if everyone dug into their own areas and vetted info in those areas, we'd all be better off.

And that already happens quite a bit.

People with expertise in the sciences on PA are really good about doing this. We could all take a leaf from their book with respect to covering our zones of interest.

There is a culture emerging here that wants to get past sensational silliness and move onto the next stage.

That's what Raf is talking about, I think. They're here asking tough questions and holding their ground, trying to read what the next step is. And they're doing it Respectfully.

They deserve our respect and support. Because they do provide a filtering function.

They move a lot of junk out of other people's paths.

[Curt]

....a little honesty would be nice:) and yet, I don't view whistleblowers as individuals who require our forgiveness. if we drink the Kool-Aid, we're responsible for the indigestion, right? but I won't get tangled up in semantics here; I see what you're saying and agree entirely.

Good point. I agree with you. The whole post is right on, but this is a key point.

They don't owe us apologies. That's not a healthy dynamic.

But, as you've said, it would be cool if they could be honest about being wrong.

[lunaflare]

Thanks for your posts and here are my thoughts this day.
People- whistle-blowers-identify with their stories which form from either personal experiences or imagined conjecture (fantasies). There is a fine line between both realities.
What is the intention behind this public sharing? is perhaps the question to ask. But how can one truly know. There really is no solid "Truth" as reality is forming from our belief systems. I don't even fully understand what I just wrote. People spout the word, "discern" and offer the caveat of doing one's own research and not gobble every detail as Truth. Yes, these are guidelines. Often our beliefs and stories become solid to form a "Life Path"... and perhaps gives meaning to a seemingly meaningless existence. But I don't really know.

Perhaps this sounds annoying to many, but I focus less on the negative these days. It is draining and I too feel weary. I am not seeking a, Life Path. There is still beauty in the world and kindness in people. Sure, my mind is still entertained by theories of interdimensionals, annunaki, our origins, Hopi Blue Star prophesies etc. I have my own experiences that are out of the box, so to speak. But still, I don't really know. I do stay open as I do know there are infinite possibilities and chances are my genetics are a cocktail of varying potential life forms. Infinity is a broad spectrum.

[RMorgan]

But, as you've said, it would be cool if they could be honest about being wrong.

I'm not talking about whistle-blowers in general, but a lot of people in the Alternative Media earn a living by being dead wrong.

David Wilcock, for instance...The man become famous thanks to his 2012 ascension exposure...Did he apologize? Of course not; He earned a lot of money and fame from his books, articles and lectures...He just said something like "I'm sure something magical will eventually happen somewhere in the future whenever it happens"...

These folks are not stupid...Did Hoagland apologize for being a crucial part of the Elenin fiasco? No...Of course not. In fact, he's just trying to spin the same story regarding ISON.

You see, apologizing, in such cases, is a mistake. Admitting that you're not a special guy, with special knowledge and special "sources" would simply finish their "careers"....Yes, brother, people are making careers out of it.

Did Kerry Cassidy ever apologize for eternally interviewing and giving media exposure to charlatans and for spinning fear-porn stories that always and invariably end up being wrong after a while? No, of course not...

This is a business. Period. Admitting failure is the last resource, used only when all other resources are exhausted. Just like in any other business.

To sum up, these folks like to spin the same things over and over and over again...and they've been wrong over and over and over again. People still buy stories told by people who were consecutively wrong, simply because by not officially admitting their mistakes through formal apologies, people still perceive them as special sources of information. Apologizing, in this case, would break up the spell and consequently end up their careers.

The same phenomena happens in politics; As an example, everybody knows that Obama has told many lies and made many mistakes; Somehow, they still accept him as a president. Now, if Obama himself admitted he was wrong and lied several times and apologized for it, his career would be over right there.

Apologizing, in some situations, negatively impacts on public opinion. It removes the line between people perceiving you as a potential liar or as an official self-admitted liar or loser.

Apologizing is officially taking self-responsibility over your own actions; It will make the public officially perceive you as responsible for whatever you've done, which in some cases may even get you arrested, like in a court of law when someone admits to be guilty.

There's a big different between people suspecting that one of these alternative media guys is a liar and a fraud and people knowing that he's a liar and a fraud because he himself admitted it indirectly through apologies...As long as people just suspect, their careers will be fine and they will still be able to spin the same stories over and over again...

[Kalamos]

..........

[Eram]

Hey Curt,

I'm with you, mate.

However, in fact, the forum is in a much better shape than it used to be a few years ago. Raf.

I 100% agree with you. There's no doubt in my mind things have improved substantially. People are more savvy now, and that's affected the quality. That's a big point.

Wouldn't it be fun if the whole 2012 "mass ascension" fiasco acted as a catalyst for people to really start waking up and now really pay attention to what is being fed to us? :P

[blufire]

I feel strongly that what often happens with whistleblower information and experiences is that it gets so dissected, rewritten, reworded and diluted with so many opinions and personal life dramas, that their core knowledge is lost in the alternative /new age shuffle, agenda and drama.

I know this is exactly is what is happening with my current threads:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59869-Personal-controversial-view-of-Monsanto-Globalists-and-Technology
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?63899-The-New-World-and-Civilization--the-messages-from-my-Contact-as-a-child-

People need so much for me to answer questions or provide information that it is impossible for me (or I feel) to keep the information and knowledge in context.

Also, I am faced with the daunting task of accusations of being brainwashed or programmed by ‘nefarious beings’ . . . . so I think well hell . . . why even try to deliver the message when it will automatically rejected because it doesn’t fit into the current alternative/new age program or flow.

So it is very discouraging and infuriating to say the least. I have been a member of Camelot/Avalon (or lurker) from the very beginning. Anyone can review my posts on this forum or the old Avalon forum that has been archived and see exactly who I am. So anyone can get a very clear picture of who I am and what I am about, but many much rather put me in the category of shill, troll, misinfo agent solely because what I am sharing now does not ‘fit’.

So what chance does a whistleblower outside of the forum have of delivering a succinct, solid lead so we can move forward productively if we can’t even believe or support those of us directly involved in the forum family?

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Perhaps all the BS :bs: we have sorted through is just part of becoming wiser and improving intuition, a necessary part of evolution.

I have regretfully passed on to others information that I was excited about in the moment, but soon after discovered that it was BS.

No doubt that the powers that be are spreading false information in many places, including here on Project Avalon to keep all of us divided and less aware of truth. We need to learn to sort through it as part of our growing.

Much of the conspiracy information is of little interest to me now, compared to an intense interest in the past. Conspiracy information can serve a useful purpose, for a while, if it motivates people to act in ways to mitigate risk. Without action, the conspiracy information may only serve the dark side by directing our attention to all that is negative. Whatever we focus on becomes bigger. Solutions are what we need, and where I put most of my attention.

Don’t feed :hungry: the reptiles. :croc:

[mountain_jim]

We have to refuse to be ‘entertained.’ We have to get our kicks another way: by carefully sifting information to find bits of truth.



I get what you are saying, but carefully sifting information to find bits of truth is my entertainment.

Being physically incarnated in 3D reality, born with no conscious memory of what came before, fighting attempted mind-molding in public schools, lied to by all levels of media, mocked by so many who have no interest or clue...

If I did not find the search for truth entertaining, I would have difficulty finding positivity in Life, and I refuse to submit to (spiritual) negativity and deep unhappyness, for what use would I then be to myself or my planet?

I have found some references to possible truth in Wilcock in the past (ebooks and books), and still entertain the possibility that Fulford might one day connect events in some way that has value, etc.

Did Dan Burisch's Camelot interviews lead toward Truth? I still don't really know, and it was that interview which led me to discover Project Camelot and later Avalon.

I have gathered from lack of interest in this forum this week that most folks here have little interest in the JFK conspiracy anymore, yet I have hopes that folks like Fetzer at VT have made real progress this week in getting us closer to the point where the MSM is finally forced to admit that the level of proof is now there for Oswald to be proven the patsy, for the CIA, LBJ, and Bush Sr. to be shown as deeply involved and certain folks still alive could and should be put on trial.

This event was when the US ceased to be a democracy and the shadow government / elite mafia / military industrial security complex gained complete control in my opinion, and getting folks to wake up to this truth would really help to wake them up to the later truths of 9/11, our totally lost constitutional rights, and so much else.

Realizing what happened to JFK early in life led me down the path of conspiracy research in search of truth, and this research was a primary source of my entertainment (in evolving my understanding of the nature of this reality.)

[seleka]

Perhaps all the BS :bs: we have sorted through is just part of becoming wiser and improving intuition, a necessary part of evolution.

I have regretfully passed on to others information that I was excited about in the moment, but soon after discovered that it was BS.

No doubt that the powers that be are spreading false information in many places, including here on Project Avalon to keep all of us divided and less aware of truth. We need to learn to sort through it as part of our growing.

Much of the conspiracy information is of little interest to me now, compared to an intense interest in the past. Conspiracy information can serve a useful purpose, for a while, if it motivates people to act in ways to mitigate risk. Without action, the conspiracy information may only serve the dark side by directing our attention to all that is negative. Whatever we focus on becomes bigger. Solutions are what we need, and where I put most of my attention.

Don’t feed :hungry: the reptiles. :croc:

I have been to other forums. My intuition is strong lately. I believe the percentage of avalon posters to be genuine is very high, like 94%. I see only a few that are here to derail on purpose.

I agree on the second part of that too, like in the 100 yrs of solitude book, as the guy is reading it, it is happening... we are making it by talking about it and giving it attention. Most of us that are here are awake already, so the regular articles about the 'illuminati' are very old hat... it is good we know about it, but now we know, how do we 'make it go away'? You can't because "I have met the enemy and us is them...." isn't that a famous quote? hehe. I am all for just shaking hands with the blooddrinkers and telling them the old law- do what thou wilt- lest it harm another... if they want to do the sacrifices, they should get willing participants from their own ranks. Dang I feel I went on a tangent. Going to read the OP again and come back....

[seleka]

Personally, I don’t know anything concrete about the Jesuits and the Rothschilds and the Annunaki and the Martians and the Archons and the 4th Reich. Or whether group A is over Group B in the hierarchy. ...

I don’t know whether secret gold is going to be thrown out of vaults to the masses like turkeys on Christmas morning.

I have theories, but I don’t know.

And I don’t think 99% of the people who speak authoritatively on these subjects know either. Some are spinning tales.

Others pass along bogus information unintentionally. Some may even be coerced to do so.


Many of us here are well past the point of wanting to be entertained by stories. ...


As fun as all the speculation and stories can be, digging down deeper to find real truth would be a lot more fun.

Because as tired as I am of being bull****ted, attempts to do so only confirm my suspicion: all the spin is hiding something real.

What is it? What are its dimensions?

There are a lot of good brains here. And not just logical left-brain types, either. We have the whole spectrum.






Millions of people read this forum.


above post was edited by leaving parts out, to read the full post go to #1 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65894-I-m-Very-Tired-of-Being-Spun-and-Bull---ed&p=763893&viewfull=1#post763893).

I think we know a lot of hard evidence about the annunaki, but wait, we also know that the ETs have provided the cabal with time travel technology, so those are likely plants, right? I am not sure if it is the same thing, but I often feel overwhelmed by how much I am absorbing, and trying to decide if it fits in with this or that. Some regret being awake once they find that down every rabbit hole, there are more tunnels leading in all directions and you go so far you get lost... then have a breakdown...

There is a lot of information in black and white in the form of released documents, there are people holding conferences to disclose there is a 26 mile wide mothership in our solar system. There is a lot that is concrete... and then like I said, you realize it could be just a plant. So stop thinking. relax. Why are we here?

To experience. By having a solid body we can feel things. It is not real and you can never be hurt. Do what thou wilt, lest it harm another.

But yeah, how do we know anything?
is that what this post is about?
and I agree there is an elephant in the room... sometimes we can smell it, touch its tail.. so when a describes, he says it is like a rope, when b describes it is like a giant leaf that moves... etc, but hey we are gathering the pieces, right? As we put them together, more things make sense. If I ever wonder if I am just the nutty one believing all these conspiracies are true, I watch the video of lawmakers, priests, etc worshipping a giant owl as a real human screams when the flames hit them. There is Something going on... and it being secret is the Problem, right?


EDIT: and I think I said we have to ignore them and then I said I remind myself by watching the only known video released.... I feel I am a conundrum of contradictions all the time.... this article (http://www.illuminatiagenda.com/why-the-key-to-liberating-yourself-from-the-illuminati-agenda-is-a-paradox/) was a good one for me.

[jagman]

A very thought provoking thread Curtis.This is why I love Avalon. I can tell this
one going to have legs.lol

[Dennis Leahy]

Great thread, Curtis! In addition to the "junk" and innuendo and conjecture that frequently get's vaulted to the top of page 1, there is the equal and opposite reality of ignoring real news.

One thing I see is the amazing ability of the powers that be and their communications channels to completely remove all of our adrenaline - our fight or flight reflex - to VERY real revelations.

Partly, they do this by a process of "ignoring to death" some critical information.

Secondly, they will pull a distraction as effective as the beautiful magician's assistant "accidentally" exposing her underwear.

Thirdly, there is an aura (I'm not sure if it is engineered psychologically or if it is organic) of disunity that guarantees that whatever the data is, it will not garner any effective action on our part. We have been rendered so independent (in areas requiring unity) that we no longer remember how to unite and act in concert.

Fourthly (is "fourthly" really a word?) there is a palpable sense of impotence - again, I'm not sure if it is organic, or if it is deliberately injected into society via social engineering. Every problem is too big, too overwhelming to tackle... "and we can't win anyway.", we whimper.

So, a huge number of people know enough about the 1913 and 1930's bankster fraud in the US to bankrupt the nation - on paper - and sell us out to the banks under the guise of the Federal Reserve... and most people shrug their shoulders.

It might have taken a decade to finally view the Zapruder film and watch JFK's head go "back, and to the left", but once we did, we allowed the burgeoning science of psychological manipulation to render us pathetically inept - even though we know the killers simply melted right back into the US government and its intelligence factions.

A huge number of people recognize a false flag like 9/11 for what it is... and nothing is done about it or about the Middle East slaughter of a million people in its wake.

It becomes widely known that the US government officially endorses torture and imprisons hundreds of prisoners as terrorists that we know are not terrorists. We mutter.

Laws such as The Patriot Act and NDAA get passed to allow US citizens to join the list of everyone else on the planet that the US government wants "disappeared" or killed to be disappeared or killed. We order a tall latte and check the football scores using our iPhones.

Major financial frauds, such as the "Libor Scandal" get defused and distracted to death by some major saber rattling at a foreign nation - and we check our calendars to see which holiday decorations to get out next.

The police departments across the US become militarized, acquire war machinery, tie in with an unprecedented surveillance grid. The DHS silently becomes a full military branch, on domestic soil. We buy silver coins, bags of beans, and boxes of bullets...then go back to watching Dancing with the Stars, NASCAR, and the latest Hollywood blockbuster.

Rumors are confirmed by whistleblower testimony - with backing documents - that virtually everyone on Earth is being spied upon, constantly. Avalonians congratulate ourselves for "knowing" this prior to Snowden, the gullible half of the population is officially instructed that Snowden is a traitor and that the "intelligence" saves us from terrorism. The other half make multiple posts on facebook, interspersed with photos of cute kittens and balls of yarn.

Someone dedicates nearly 2 years to study how the Elite have gained control of the US government, and offers what is still the only comprehensive plan and strategy for citizens to take control of our own governance - and nearly three years later, only 150 people even bother to sign a document calling for a peaceful "takeover" of the US government by ordinary citizens. But hey, did you see the night-vision video proving the existence of lights moving in the night sky!

Dennis

[seleka]

... The other half make multiple posts on facebook, interspersed with photos of cute kittens and balls of yarn.

Dennis

Dennis- you hit it out of the park for clarity for me. and I post those kitten and yarn pics to stay off the lists :p :love:

[Carmody]

It's good that you are all upset. Upset enough to go into breakdown. As that is the time it finally works -at the breaking point and the breaking point alone.

Astrology is inextricably tied to the human condition, of the collective and the individual, which tells you a lot about how the fundamentals of reality work, as flow, in time. If that, as a well known fact in astrology does not stop you cold in your tracks, in all potential answer and question sets, then you really have not been paying attention. The predictable patterning of planetary alignment... predicting human life flow and individual projection of self? Yes, and deadly serious and provable - all one has to do is look into it.

Ison is astrology in act and flow... and Ison is now closest to the sun. Interesting how that works.

If truth cannot be found then the size or scope of the question set is incorrect in some fashion. Either the data is incomplete, or the incorrect question is being asked, or some combination of both. The more impossible the answer is to find the more basic or fundamental the error in the formation of the question.

[mosquito]

Someone dedicates nearly 2 years to study how the Elite have gained control of the US government, and offers what is still the only comprehensive plan and strategy for citizens to take control of our own governance - and nearly three years later, only 150 people even bother to sign a document calling for a peaceful "takeover" of the US government by ordinary citizens. But hey, did you see the night-vision video proving the existence of lights moving in the night sky!

Dennis

Americans take note. If you don't know what Dennis is talking about here, I'm sure he'll gladly point you in the right direction.

Good thread Curtis.

Another aspect of the problem is that the moment people become aware that they have been lied to, there is a tendency to believe anything which is not that original lie. Confusion reigns and the real truth (if there is such a thing) becomes even further obfuscated.

Another thing is that many people, when they learn the truth, believe that all we need to do is communicate this to the masses, and change will come within a few days. If only it were that simple. Unfortunately, the majority of people don't want to know that their entire belief system is false, because that's what it boils down to - it's not just a matter of a cover-up here, a lie there; nearly everything we have been told about our history - global, national, personal, is untrue.

That said, I'm also tired of the same old sh*t from the same old people; why is Hoagland, for example, still given credibility ?

[gripreaper]

Ha, not true! The "EVENT" is right around the corner, all of the evil cabal will soon be arrested and put on trial, soon a global jubilee wipes out all debt, soon the Federal Reserve is disbanded and we go to sound currency, soon all the gold is returned to its rightful owners, soon all GMO's, chemtrails, and fluoridated water are stopped, soon free energy is released, soon the collateral accounts are distributed to the people, soon we all get millions, soon the galactic federation comes and saves us, plants a nuclear submarine land dart at one of our famous monuments, and soon we all get a galactic joyride in a limousine to a mothership!

I know this is all true because I saw it on the internet! :)

[AutumnW]

Chinaski, I take great exception to your disputing that Hillary Clinton has three tits. Why, she has two of her own plus the boob she married. Other than that I agree with everything you wrote!

[turiya]

If truth cannot be found then the size or scope of the question set is incorrect in some fashion. Either the data is incomplete, or the incorrect question is being asked, or some combination of both. The more impossible the answer is to find the more basic or fundamental the error in the formation of the question.

The truth of the matter (and please don't quote me) is that finding truth is not at all possible. On the contrary, truth will find you, whenever you get out of the way, and stop making the effort.


turiya :cool:

[Carmody]

But, as you've said, it would be cool if they could be honest about being wrong.

I'm not talking about whistle-blowers in general, but a lot of people in the Alternative Media earn a living by being dead wrong.

David Wilcock, for instance...The man become famous thanks to his 2012 ascension exposure...Did he apologize? Of course not; He earned a lot of money and fame from his books, articles and lectures...He just said something like "I'm sure something magical will eventually happen somewhere in the future whenever it happens"...

These folks are not stupid...Did Hoagland apologize for being a crucial part of the Elenin fiasco? No...Of course not. In fact, he's just trying to spin the same story regarding ISON.

You see, apologizing, in such cases, is a mistake. Admitting that you're not a special guy, with special knowledge and special "sources" would simply finish their "careers"....Yes, brother, people are making careers out of it.

Did Kerry Cassidy ever apologize for eternally interviewing and giving media exposure to charlatans and for spinning fear-porn stories that always and invariably end up being wrong after a while? No, of course not...

This is a business. Period. Admitting failure is the last resource, used only when all other resources are exhausted. Just like in any other business.

To sum up, these folks like to spin the same things over and over and over again...and they've been wrong over and over and over again. People still buy stories told by people who were consecutively wrong, simply because by not officially admitting their mistakes through formal apologies, people still perceive them as special sources of information. Apologizing, in this case, would break up the spell and consequently end up their careers.

The same phenomena happens in politics; As an example, everybody knows that Obama has told many lies and made many mistakes; Somehow, they still accept him as a president. Now, if Obama himself admitted he was wrong and lied several times and apologized for it, his career would be over right there.

Apologizing, in some situations, negatively impacts on public opinion. It removes the line between people perceiving you as a potential liar or as an official self-admitted liar or loser.

Apologizing is officially taking self-responsibility over your own actions; It will make the public officially perceive you as responsible for whatever you've done, which in some cases may even get you arrested, like in a court of law when someone admits to be guilty.

There's a big different between people suspecting that one of these alternative media guys is a liar and a fraud and people knowing that he's a liar and a fraud because he himself admitted it indirectly through apologies...As long as people just suspect, their careers will be fine and they will still be able to spin the same stories over and over again...

One big thing you are not taking into account is that apologizing to the public only works for a few people -- - the people who can balance themselves and expect balance in others.

As for the rest, if you apologize to them, it just makes it worse. Far, far far worse. and NO, it is not about business, it is the norm of psychology, class 101. Thus the attention of the people is lost as you want things to work for you and for your viewpoint, Which is -flatly speaking-, not the norm and not universal. Especially in the great unwashed, which is the target audience.

Essentially, your desires enacted, would destroy the very efforts that bring awareness to as many as possible, as people don't really work (internal unconscious function) the way you seem to think they do.

edit. reading your post fully, you seem to be getting it but at the same time seem to dismiss the front (their public face) that they HAVE TO live in...as being disingenuous.

This is a numbers game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1s1BkjLj84). And that requires the behavior and attitude they live in and act by being exactly as it is.

Looking in the right direction comes long before any forms of enlightenment begin, and in that it is purely a number of people that are reached with the fundamental mindset attributes. Apologies and that sort of behavior you are asking for, would kill that before it has a chance to take hold.

[ghostrider]

all information is sanitized , it's up to the individual to do the research into whatever topic and make up their own mind ... Mostly the truth is the stuff of myth and legend , and the stuff of myth and legend is closer to the truth ...

[Curt]

The forum is now in a gray area. People are not buying all the bullshilt and hype as they used to, which is a good and necessary first step, but generally, we don't know where to go from here.

This is the big question. Where do we go from here?

[CD7]

Yes I was just thinking this.....hummmm WE all know ITS ALL BACKWARDS----now what???

Shall we discuss it for eternity? Wouldn't it be nice to be like Ison----travel in a straight line for eons and then all of sudden CHANGE COURSE in a couple of days, awwww to dream........

[Curt]

I'd like to shift the focus of this thread to a discussion of where to go from here.

To the Mods, I'd like to request that the thread title be changed to: Beyond Spin and Bull***%: where do we go from here?

[Ron Mauer Sr]

The forum is now in a gray area. People are not buying all the bullshilt and hype as they used to, which is a good and necessary first step, but generally, we don't know where to go from here.

This is the big question. Where do we go from here?

My intention is to go in a direction that feels good.

The journey never ends.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

23894

Just one gem of many from Illusions, The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah (http://www.amazon.com/Illusions-Adventures-Reluctant-Richard-Bach-ebook/dp/B008IU9ZXW/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1385648933&sr=1-1&keywords=richard+bach), by Richard Bach.

I need to remind myself with this sometimes when choosing a direction for my next step.

[jackovesk]

I'm Very Tired of Being Spun and Bull**@%ed

You need to watch what goes on in the (War-Room) in the (HUNGER GAMES) with Philip Seymour Hoffman showing how the PTW Strategize, Manipulate & (CONTROL)...:yes4:

http://sayvillecinemas.com/uploads/2/8/6/2/2862470/8679008.png http://www.kcconfidential.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Philip-Seymour-Hoffman-in-The-Hunger-Games-Catching-Fire-2013-Movie-Image.jpg

[Robin]

This is the big question. Where do we go from here?

I think that it is fair to say that much of our frustration comes from realizing that there are so many people who are not awake and aware. Most of the world has NO idea what is going on and they are continuing to feed the system. People need to wake up if we are going to establish a new paradigm and bring truth to light.

I have an idea that I think may be a step in the right direction. We all are unique and have our personal strengths and focus, so why don't we put them to use? I think Dennis's thread Skillsets: we're not all equal, so wouldn't it be wise to collaborate? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65394-Skillsets-we-re-not-all-equal-so-wouldn-t-it-be-wise-to-collaborate) is also a step in the right direction for us on Avalon.

For us (Avalon as a whole) to go in another direction and actually begin to DO things--rather than just discuss things--we need to interact more with people who are not awake and aware. It is our responsibility as people who are awake and aware to do what we can to take care of our neighbors. We need to wake up our neighbors if we are ever going to progress into the truth movement.

When I say neighbors, I really mean all of the misguided people on the internet who are so absorbed in distracting cat videos or other useless internet memes. We need to point them in the right direction and show them where to find useful information that they should focus their attention on.

What we on Avalon need to look into is bringing information to forums that have nothing to do with the truth movement. There are thousands of forums on the internet where people talk with like-minded people that discuss topics such as: diseases, books, films, motherhood, etc. Forums are a great way for people to come together and it's a shame that most forums do not talk about the truth.

My idea is that we each take our individual strength/focus, join other forums, and slowly introduce people to the truth. We bring in information that is relevant to the forum that will begin to make people think differently...that will ultimately allow them to wake up.

For instance, I consider my strength/focus to be as a Tolkien scholar. I am very savvy when it comes to the works of Tolkien (Lord of the Rings, Silmarillion). I created a thread a while ago called Waking up in Middle Earth (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?63797-Waking-up-in-Middle-Earth). The purpose of this thread was my way of documenting correlations with Tolkien's works to our reality.

As a truth seeker and somebody interested in scholarly works, I know that Tolkien's works are fictional tales of the real history of humanity. Tolkien had access to the Vatican library and was given an OK to write his books. His characters and themes correspond directly to things such as Project IBIS, genetic manipulation, the Illuminati, etc. It is clear as day for me to make these correlations.

There are many forums on the internet dedicated entirely to discussing the works of Tolkien. I have observed many of them and of course the members of those forums are misguided. They seem to discuss Tolkien's works as nothing more than a story, but do not talk about the Big Picture. I can tell that the people who visit those forums are not awake and aware.

I want to change this. What I am going to do for my part in waking people up, is to join many of these forums and slowly introduce heavier concepts to the members. I'm going to bring to light that Tolkien had access to secret information and I am going to show members my correlations. This is a creative and easy way to wake people up as there are hundreds of millions of Tolkien fans across the world. Imagine all of them waking up!

By introducing these heavy concepts (those we discuss here on Avalon that we know to be true) to people in a way they can directly relate to, we can wake people up rather efficiently. In my case, with my Tolkien knowledge, I can show people that the Eye of Sauron is clearly a representation of the Eye of Horus, the symbol the Illuminati use. It's on the back of the dollar bill for goodness sakes!!

So, again, my idea is:

Avalon members join other forums that discuss things they are either interested in or have knowledge about.
introduce the truth to members of the forums slowly and unobtrusively.
casually make correlations that will interest these members and will benefit them.


I am going to do this regardless if anyone likes the idea, because I feel obligated to do so. I feel that I must guide people in the right direction as I have information that is important and needs to get out. I invite you to join me.

[Mark]

There is a reticence on the part of the Awake and Aware to venture out. We all have been stung repeatedly by forays into the mainstream, after having shared information. It remains a truism that the messenger is killed. For those who have the strength of purpose and the fortitude to withstand such barrages, taking the messages of the true reality of things is something that they are probably already doing, to the best of their ability. For those new to knowledge and these knids of understandings, thinking about doing so, despite the negative outcomes of past experiences, may be something to consider.

Yes, many are still asleep. But many more are awakening too. In every group of people who seem to be sleeping, there are those who are only pretending. Who know something is going on and who have searched themselves for things, have experienced things they've never shared with others. These are the ones that will approach you later, after hearing others denigrate your beliefs and statements, to ask you more in-depth questions. Maybe 1 or 3 out of 10. These are the ones that can be pointed in the right direction, given access to the resources that will satisfy their curiosity and need to know more.

I reach out on my blogs, with my FB pages, share my writings, art and music as widely as possible. For those who are ready, they will find them. I have received many, many emails and comments out of the blue telling me how useful my works were, and how I've helped, even though I don't know them. Expressing truth, putting it out there for people to find, no matter how reticent one may be, or how minimal one things their writing or speaking skills are, you will resonate with someone, somewhere, who writes like you do, speaks like you do, understands in a similar manner as you. And this seems to be the point, Vibrations attracct similar vibrations and those of higher vibrations can raise those of a slightly lower vibration if the right word, the right phrase, the right idea is presented in exactly the right way to meet that person where they are at in that moment.

Speaking out. Providing another avenue of truth, alternative to the mainstream, considered, thoughtful and sympathetic to the recognition that baby steps are needed with many, while for others, they can swallow the whole enchilada at once. Mr. Gamgee has a very palpable point and it is accessible to each and every one of those members reading this as well as the many visitors who visit these threads as well.

Share. Trust that synchronicity will place you in the correct circumstances so that the msg is received by those who are ready for it. Don't let the fear of being labeled different stop the expression of these greater truths and realities. Recognize the fear of the sarcastic, the ironic, the derisive, offensive. Don't take it personal because it is not about you, it is about change. It is about cracking the box and revealing what is outside of it.

Group initiatives are all well and good, but it has to start individually.

[Robin]

So, again, my idea is:

Avalon members join other forums that discuss things they are either interested in or have knowledge about.
introduce the truth to members of the forums slowly and unobtrusively.
casually make correlations that will interest these members and will benefit them.



The way I see it is that people who join forums are more active and open-minded than the rest of the population that do not participate in online forums. Most people we try to wake up simply by talking to them often bash us and call us crazy conspiracy theorists, but I feel reaching out to people on the internet would be different. Posting a simple video to prove a point on a forum is easy. It's right there for people to see...all they have to do is click and watch. We don't have the luxury of evidence when talking to somebody face-to-face.

Since Obama has his cyber-warriors (http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/52923), commonly called trolls, we need to balance out their devious agenda. Those of us who work with the light need to also act as cyber warriors. Let us be our own cyber-warrior team. But instead of being rude, vicious, close-minded, and intrusive, we will bring forth information in a kind, loving, and unobtrusive way.

Obama => Cyber Warriors
Project Avalon => Cyber Truth Squad

[AutumnW]

It's hard not to laugh with resigned mirth. Whenever I hear people belabor the word, 'truth,' it tickles me now. Who and what is the enemy. Are they immoral amoral. Are they criminal, part of a system. Is there evil intent, or is it just the result that is evil. Are 'they' nasty initiates, an Illuminati or are they deranged strategists, an Illumi-nutty.

My own theory, for what it's worth, after soaking in this stuff for decades is there appears to be several conspiracies going on, some under one overarching rubric, and others under another umbrella--in terms of major players. There is competition among players as well as some degree of cooperation--but it is a fluid situation.

In a sense the ultimate answer might be right out Marshall Macluhan -- the medium is not only the message, but, in a sense the massage, too. It strokes our imaginations as we go insane trying to figure out who the ultimate controllers are. As we frantically type our thoughts into the machines, the machines are slowly developing the ability to become ensouled. By the time we have figured out who the human controllers are and how they operate they will have been safely absorbed by the machine. The reality always being a receding horizon that vanishes when we arrive.

So perhaps the truth is no more than one click away.

[Mike]

I'd like to shift the focus of this thread to a discussion of where to go from here.

To the Mods, I'd like to request that the thread title be changed to: Beyond Spin and Bull***%: where do we go from here?


hey Curt,

my feeling is that there's really nowhere else to go from here;)

the forum works in cycles, and inevitably winds up at this point of frustration - which is usually a result of a sort of tiredness that comes with talking about something endlessly while never really *doing* anything about it. which usually results in an intellgent, constructive thread like this one, or a silly dramatic one. and inevitably someone will say someting to the effect of: "hey guys, lets stop wasting time on this and get back to doing our work." and i always sort of wonder: what *is* our work? what "work" do we actually do here?

and the truth is, we don't actually *do* anything, and we never will. the forum is what it is - nothing more and nothing less. it's kind of one dimensional. members will likely think this shallow, but the main reason i post and read here is for entertainment. to pass time. and it gives me an excuse to sit at the typer and share my thoughts. that's it. i don't really expect anything else from it, and i'm not sure we should.

we talk here. well...write here. i'm sorry to say this, but i dont think we have any real revolutionaries here. even if the perfect opportunity arose to affect reality in a 3d way, i reckon very few of us would leave the comfort of our warm desk chairs to march in the streets. i dont think there's anything too terribly rebellious about what we do here. we sit at the typer in the comfort of our warm homes and write. it's too *easy*!

spirituality is practiced in 3d, every day...when you give the homeless man a few bucks or hold the door open for the elderly lady. striving to be a better human being every day...i think that's where we go from here.

[Curt]

I'd like to shift the focus of this thread to a discussion of where to go from here.

To the Mods, I'd like to request that the thread title be changed to: Beyond Spin and Bull***%: where do we go from here?


hey Curt,

my feeling is that there's really nowhere else to go from here;)

the forum works in cycles, and inevitably winds up at this point of frustration - which is usually a result of a sort of tiredness that comes with talking about something endlessly while never really *doing* anything about it. which usually results in an intellgent, constructive thread like this one, or a silly dramatic one. and inevitably someone will say someting to the effect of: "hey guys, lets stop wasting time on this and get back to doing our work." and i always sort of wonder: what *is* our work? what "work" do we actually do here?

and the truth is, we don't actually *do* anything, and we never will. the forum is what it is - nothing more and nothing less. it's kind of one dimensional. members will likely think this shallow, but the main reason i post and read here is for entertainment. to pass time. and it gives me an excuse to sit at the typer and share my thoughts. that's it. i don't really expect anything else from it, and i'm not sure we should.

we talk here. well...write here. i'm sorry to say this, but i dont think we have any real revolutionaries here. even if the perfect opportunity arose to affect reality in a 3d way, i reckon very few of us would leave the comfort of our warm desk chairs to march in the streets. i dont think there's anything too terribly rebellious about what we do here. we sit at the typer in the comfort of our warm homes and write. it's too *easy*!

spirituality is practiced in 3d, every day...when you give the homeless man a few bucks or hold the door open for the elderly lady. striving to be a better human being every day...i think that's where we go from here.


I agree to an extent. We write about topics, and look at things. We're not revolutionaries. But I think revolt isn't the only next step available. It probably isn't a practical or desirable use of this format, honestly.

There are other things we could do.

A good first goal might be to write better about the topics that come our way--to weed out more bull****. Make PA the number one clearninghouse for solid information.

PA could become a hub for serious knowledge. It could be a network that actually shapes alt media discourse to make it better. It could attract more insiders and whistleblowers. That would bring in new intel and who knows where that could lead.

Plus, imagine if all the guys and gals out there with megaphones knew there was a place online that vetted the stuff they said, kept track and didn't let them get away with anything. That might have a huge effect.

There are millions reading what we're doing here. The potential exists for something more. I don't know what that is. Some will have a better idea, for sure.

But I don't think we need to settle on a monolithic goal to be effective. Everyone tending to their own areas of interest can work. Maybe just a committment to being better would help.

I think tightening up our process as a group would be a good next step. I have no idea where it would lead, but it would be interesting to find out.

[donk]

Maybe we can start with trying to move away from the hijacked term "truth". I also cringe when I hear it, especially in relation to the internet.

What we are really interested in is good information that is empowering to humans focused on love and service to others, which seems to be hidden and/or obscured by those in service to themselves or selfish/ignorant/deluded beings....at least in my reality as I understand it, that I hopefully share with others of similar mind?

:wizard:

(I'm not quite as hopeful that it's possible, but ideally it would be to take the term back. I do my best by trying to live it....truth always, right?!?!)

[araucaria]

and the truth is, we don't actually *do* anything, and we never will. the forum is what it is - nothing more and nothing less. it's kind of one dimensional. members will likely think this shallow, but the main reason i post and read here is for entertainment. to pass time. and it gives me an excuse to sit at the typer and share my thoughts. that's it. i don't really expect anything else from it, and i'm not sure we should.

You’re welcome to be as shallow as you like, Chinaski, but that takes nothing away from the forum’s ability to provide a great deal of help to people who for whatever reason may have nowhere else to go to find a sympathetic ear, often backed by useful advice they can act upon in their 3D reality. It is a mistake to think that listening and talking is not doing: there are many professions that do nothing else. The doing versus talking debate is really a tired old non-issue.

You have experiencers here who are glad to have someone to believe them instead of calling them crazy. You have people with life-threatening illnesses needing advice and comfort. You even had Brian who took us through his final days and weeks. You have many people who are afraid of what the world is coming to and need reassuring without being made fun of.

And you also have a certain amount of ‘entertainment’. Give and take whatever you want, it’s all good. But know that there is a great deal more going on here than mere entertainment.

[Curt]

.....the forum’s ability to provide a great deal of help to people who for whatever reason may have nowhere else to go to find a sympathetic ear, often backed by useful advice they can act upon in their 3D reality. It is a mistake to think that listening and talking is not doing: there are many professions that do nothing else.

You have experiencers here who are glad to have someone to believe them instead of calling them crazy. You have people with life-threatening illnesses needing advice and comfort. You even had Brian who took us through his final days and weeks. You have many people who are afraid of what the world is coming to and need reassuring without being made fun of.

Avalon also serves the very important purpose you've mentioned above. And it shouldn't be taken lightly. It's a big part of what we're doing here. We are a community that provides support and friendship in dark, confusing times.

In this function, thankfully, we're already very solid.

I don't think anyone would really question that.

[donk]

and the truth is, we don't actually *do* anything, and we never will. the forum is what it is - nothing more and nothing less. it's kind of one dimensional. members will likely think this shallow, but the main reason i post and read here is for entertainment. to pass time. and it gives me an excuse to sit at the typer and share my thoughts. that's it. i don't really expect anything else from it, and i'm not sure we should.

You’re welcome to be as shallow as you like, Chinaski, but that takes nothing away from the forum’s ability to provide a great deal of help to people who for whatever reason may have nowhere else to go to find a sympathetic ear, often backed by useful advice they can act upon in their 3D reality. It is a mistake to think that listening and talking is not doing: there are many professions that do nothing else. The doing versus talking debate is really a tired old non-issue.

You have experiencers here who are glad to have someone to believe them instead of calling them crazy. You have people with life-threatening illnesses needing advice and comfort. You even had Brian who took us through his final days and weeks. You have many people who are afraid of what the world is coming to and need reassuring without being made fun of.

And you also have a certain amount of ‘entertainment’. Give and take whatever you want, it’s all good. But know that there is a great deal more going on here than mere entertainment.

Great point...and I'd especially like highlight a very significant (to me) thing: This place is a draw to some of the most damaged, vulnerable people you could think of...most of which (like myself) have little-to-no understanding of how dangerous tainted information can be.

It may be all fun and games to you (and sometimes me), but most take stuff seriously. Emotional attachments to certain ideas can lead down dark or damaging paths. While we are all responsible for the information we consume, should responsibly discern it, and would always be best to keep an open mind...there seem to be beings that (for a multitude of reasons) choose to manipulate individuals' and groups' mindsets...

...or I could be completely wrong, but what would hurt to heed this advice? STAY MINDFUL...

One other piece advice that has served me: constantly asking myself "what is the purpose of my presence?", and finding a way to find out the same from others...

[soleil]

Hey Curt,

I'm with you, mate.

However, in fact, the forum is in a much better shape than it used to be a few years ago. It doesn't mean it's in a good shape either..It's just better than it used to be in terms of the discussion and publication of obvious delusional or fake news



People are finally realizing that they simply cannot trust all those story-tellers that plague the Alternative Media.

I'm not sure if you noticed, but the forum is very slow currently. People are not posting as frequently as they used to and obvious disinformation topics are not gaining traction anymore.

If you ask me, the forum is slow because once people learn to discern the bullshilt, there's really not much else to talk about in the Alternative Media universe.

Really, people are saying enough is enough. They are not buying it anymore. They're finally seeing the Alternative Media for what it is, or what it has become: Controlled Opposition.

Honestly, I don't know if the Alternative Media started as controlled opposition or if it was gradually corrupted along the years, but I know it's almost completely corrupted now.

I don't know if the main Alternative Media characters are mentors or just being used as pawns in this game either, but I know that, deliberately or not, the way they've been careless delivering fake news and the lack of proper verification of their "sources" is rapidly demolishing whatever's left of the its genuine and legitimate values, if they aren't all gone already.

Many people have been complaining to me via private messages, along the last months, that the forum is currently boring...It's not good to be boring, but it's much better to be boring but truthful than super-exciting and full of shilt.

The thing is, the truth was never supposed to be a constant source of entertainment and excitement, as the Alternative Media is pushing it to be.

Being a truth seeker is much closer to be a wearing, tiring and even tedious process. There's not really a new ground-breaking interview to be published every week...There aren't enough legitimate whistle-blowers to be interviewed every month...There isn't new key top-secret information to be discussed every day.

It's a good sign that you're tired of it all, brother. Once you learn to see things for what they are and realize that you actually have little to none clues about what's really going on in the world, it's natural to get tired...

The fact is that, ultimately, most of us don't have a clue. I have some suspicions, of course, but if you ask about my conclusions, after all these years as a truth-seeker, I admit I have nothing concrete to tell you...Yes...It's tiring.

Cheers,

Raf.

i personally feel happy when nothings going on here, (ie, no, posts that cause worry)... basically i figure PA would be on top of anything new, so when nothings new, im not worried. ;) i do enjoy your posts, they are always very level headed and intelligent.



i do think though, that we are seeing too many threads of videos from random news around the world that were posted on YT, and less about things that truly matter. basically, all in all, were,at a crux of waiting to,see what happens next and rolling with the changes that there really isnt anything else to,add except to fill in more blanks.

[Mike]

and the truth is, we don't actually *do* anything, and we never will. the forum is what it is - nothing more and nothing less. it's kind of one dimensional. members will likely think this shallow, but the main reason i post and read here is for entertainment. to pass time. and it gives me an excuse to sit at the typer and share my thoughts. that's it. i don't really expect anything else from it, and i'm not sure we should.

You’re welcome to be as shallow as you like, Chinaski, but that takes nothing away from the forum’s ability to provide a great deal of help to people who for whatever reason may have nowhere else to go to find a sympathetic ear, often backed by useful advice they can act upon in their 3D reality. It is a mistake to think that listening and talking is not doing: there are many professions that do nothing else. The doing versus talking debate is really a tired old non-issue.

You have experiencers here who are glad to have someone to believe them instead of calling them crazy. You have people with life-threatening illnesses needing advice and comfort. You even had Brian who took us through his final days and weeks. You have many people who are afraid of what the world is coming to and need reassuring without being made fun of.

And you also have a certain amount of ‘entertainment’. Give and take whatever you want, it’s all good. But know that there is a great deal more going on here than mere entertainment.


correct on all counts! ;) (sort of)

and those are all good things. however...

we are all already aware that the forum serves those functions. comfort, advice and reassurance are great, sure. but this isn't the "doing" I was referring to.

I understand Curt's frustration entirely. and empathize with it. but this is a clarion call we've heard many times. it goes something like this: the forum is great...but now what? and I'm basically saying, there is no "what". this is it. what you see is what you get.

I wasn't marginalizing the forum. I think it's the best of it's kind, by far. but just like there will always be crime in cities, there will also always be crap on the forum. not too much we can do about it. it's ebbs n flows. for a while you'll be bombarded by nonsense, and then the storm will clear and sanity will prevail for a bit. and I think that's very ok. it's natural. too much of any one thing *is* a bad thing, maybe even with truth! (if that truth is boring;)) as I said before, boredom, in my opinion, is the worst disease of all. I am not a man who deliberately seeks pain or drama, but a bit of relativity is always required in 3d if we are to achieve perspective. if we don't know how lousy the forum can be at times, we'll never know how good it can be either. and so on...

I do like what Curt said about writing better, tighter. about being more interesting! interesting goes a long way with me, even if the material is dubious. personality does too. as does warmth and humor. humanity. without it we're just a bunch of robots stuck on 'repeat'. we have tons of intelligent, well-intentioned people here. talented people. but there are very few I get excited about reading, if I'm being honest. in an environment like this, originality is such an important thing, maybe the most important thing. most days i'll scan the threads, read a few posts, and i'll find myself screaming (internally;)): "somebody f#cking say something interesting!" and it's not so much that the topic isn't interesting, it's that it's *not being spoken about in an interesting way*. it's an important distinction to make.

so if I'm reading Curt right, he seems to be saying: step up your game!!! and I support that sentiment entirely.

[Rocky_Shorz]

learning is doing old friend...

our moments of babbling and sharing of thoughts are nuggets of wisdom for those with no where else to look for answers...

our fireside chats are far more important than many understand...

governments and national security councils come here for advice and to know what's really going on in the world...

I type hoping to open thoughts in readers or give a smile to 4 or 5 that might really need one...

remember, a thought can change the world...
a discussion can get it started...
knowledge creates actions in those who follow...

some members of Avalon are great at expressing their thoughts to the point your mind isn't left searching for answers after reading it...

but if you're searching for excitement, the unsaid is what expands your mind.

I know the most important secret you will ever hear...


I'll share it with you...



tomorrow...

[donk]

Your last lines are poetic, Rocky, but remind me of Alex Collier...something about "the love you withhold...?"

[Rocky_Shorz]

this is info so incredible it will blow your mind...

full disclosure of...

hmmm...

ahhh but can you handle the truth?


maybe the world isn't ready for this yet...

just send $5 a week to OrgasmicConspiracies...

I'll give you the next word of the disclosure in each weekly newsletters...


:pound:

[araucaria]

Nice post, thank you!



we are all already aware that the forum serves those functions. comfort, advice and reassurance are great, sure. but this isn't the "doing" I was referring to.

No, I expect you are talking about changing the world, as if it were not the same thing. This is where we disagree. I can live with that.


boredom, in my opinion, is the worst disease of all. I am not a man who deliberately seeks pain or drama, but a bit of relativity is always required in 3d if we are to achieve perspective. The thing is finding excitement without all the pain and drama. It is not boring at all actually.


if we don't know how lousy the forum can be at times, we'll never know how good it can be either. and so on...Ergo, if we don't know how lousy the world can be at times, we'll never know how good it can be either. Yes, the world is an absolutely wonderful place, I wouldn't want it to change.


we have tons of intelligent, well-intentioned people here. talented people. but there are very few I get excited about reading, if I'm being honest. in an environment like this, originality is such an important thing, maybe the most important thing. most days i'll scan the threads, read a few posts, and i'll find myself screaming (internally;)): "somebody f#cking say something interesting!" and it's not so much that the topic isn't interesting, it's that it's *not being spoken about in an interesting way*. it's an important distinction to make.It depends on what you mean by 'interesting' or 'exciting' (see above). Question: have you (or I) said anything just now that meets these criteria? I very much doubt it.


so if I'm reading Curt right, he seems to be saying: step up your game!!! and I support that sentiment entirely. Me too :)

[Crystine]

and the truth is, we don't actually *do* anything, and we never will. the forum is what it is - nothing more and nothing less. it's kind of one dimensional. members will likely think this shallow, but the main reason i post and read here is for entertainment. to pass time. and it gives me an excuse to sit at the typer and share my thoughts. that's it. i don't really expect anything else from it, and i'm not sure we should.

----------------------------above quoted from Chinsski.

The forum does accomplish much. It is a marvelous sounding board. We, well most off us know what it is like to be on the fringe. (No place else) When a person speaks out here, sometimes that person feels ignored. Sometimes you are validated. Sometimes others help keep your own feet on the ground. I have already seen something I wholeheartedly wish could have been prevented. Sometimes feelings get hurt. From little spats. but what is a FAMILY? The value is that we each plant many seeds with every post we make. We don't need to see the tree in order for it to bear fruit. Faith in the objectives this forum holds. It is a good place.

[Rocky_Shorz]

I think one thing we are missing is many great old threads never get pulled back to the surface, when I see something on the news related to an awesome discussion in the past, I search for it and just add it on instead of opening a new thread...

to many it is brand new, but to see in depth discussions for those who are interested gives a historic discussion vs the modern one...

just an idea for those who are seeing a quiet day in the forum...

things are tense, on the doorstep of an Asian war...

those who want to kill off 7 Billion people are still in motion...

we can't fall asleep, ever...

we must stay one step ahead....

the American civil war is still going on at a level not seen by those on the street...

gas vs wall street - Military is being pulled apart

China stopped accepting greenbacks, this could get dirty really quick...

dig everyone, we need to know what's going on and by who...

exposing plans prevent them from happening...

that's what we do and do it very well...

We are Avalon...

We kick arse... ;)

[donk]

Nice, I did this today actually (pointed to an old thread)...I agree it's a great idea, there's some treasure to be found, if you care to look

[soleil]

Nice, I did this today actually (pointed to an old thread)...I agree it's a great idea, there's some treasure to be found, if you care to look

i love when someone does it, it keeps things relevant and allows me to catch up on old relevant topics. this is a must do - think of the newbs that need to know! im still one of them! for many years im sure

[mosquito]

China stopped accepting greenbacks



No, China stopped investing in dollars, there's a difference.

So a good place for us all to start would be to check the accuracy of what we post, to the extent whichwe can.

[Rocky_Shorz]

China stopped accepting greenbacks



No, China stopped investing in dollars, there's a difference.

So a good place for us all to start would be to check the accuracy of what we post, to the extent whichwe can.

there are two sides to this war that is being created and you and I are on neither of them, stop defending, as much as scrambling to share news that you are seeing from your side...

churches being destroyed, Christians being prosecuted, everything being done by both sides is to enflame the other...

We stand in the middle pointing out our leaders are lunatics...

China fighter jets scorched the sky today over Japan and America's war games, this is all a show run by a tiny group of morons in London, and we, will pay the price...

[Rocky_Shorz]

possible CIA "false flag" weapons stash was just stumbled across in Jamaica, 3300 Warheads with missile making machine... in route to America? or Syria?


With government agencies warning of terror attacks to come here in America, have the terrorists upped their game to missile warheads or was this a secretive black-op CIA shipment going to terrorists in the Middle East that got shut down?


Jamaican authorities have seized 3,300 warheads and a missile-making machine at the port of Kingston and sought help from international police in tracking the shipper, Jamaican media reported Friday.

The unauthorized arms shipment was discovered Thursday afternoon in a police and customs operation carried out at a berth of Kingston Wharves, the RJR News site reported.
A high-level investigation has been launched, and Jamaican police have asked for assistance from international law enforcement, the news service said.

It was unclear from any of the reports of the seized ordnance how large the warheads were, what type of launch device they were intended to arm or whether the shipment’s end destination was Jamaica or another country... link (http://beforeitsnews.com/terrorism/2013/11/3300-missile-warheads-intercepted-close-to-home-were-they-headed-to-america-for-terror-attacks-here-2447902.html)

as I said, now is not the time for sleeping, everything is moving forward, right now...

[Curt]

Hey Rocky,

Thanks for contributing to the thread.

Can you point us in the direction of your sources for this information- or tell us where we can find the latest info available on this subject?

Would be great to check it out.

If you have a sec, please put up the links, just in case folks would like to have a gander.


possible CIA "false flag" weapons stash was just stumbled across in Jamaica, 3300 Warheads with missile making machine... in route to America? or Syria?


With government agencies warning of terror attacks to come here in America, have the terrorists upped their game to missile warheads or was this a secretive black-op CIA shipment going to terrorists in the Middle East that got shut down?


Jamaican authorities have seized 3,300 warheads and a missile-making machine at the port of Kingston and sought help from international police in tracking the shipper, Jamaican media reported Friday.

The unauthorized arms shipment was discovered Thursday afternoon in a police and customs operation carried out at a berth of Kingston Wharves, the RJR News site reported.
A high-level investigation has been launched, and Jamaican police have asked for assistance from international law enforcement, the news service said.

It was unclear from any of the reports of the seized ordnance how large the warheads were, what type of launch device they were intended to arm or whether the shipment’s end destination was Jamaica or another country... link (http://beforeitsnews.com/terrorism/2013/11/3300-missile-warheads-intercepted-close-to-home-were-they-headed-to-america-for-terror-attacks-here-2447902.html)

as I said, now is not the time for sleeping, everything is moving forward, right now...

[Rocky_Shorz]

Hey Rocky,

Thanks for contributing to the thread.

Can you point us in the direction of your sources for this information- or tell us where we can find the latest info available on this subject?

Would be great to check it out.

If you have a sec, please put up the links, just in case folks would like to have a gander.


possible CIA "false flag" weapons stash was just stumbled across in Jamaica, 3300 Warheads with missile making machine... in route to America? or Syria?


With government agencies warning of terror attacks to come here in America, have the terrorists upped their game to missile warheads or was this a secretive black-op CIA shipment going to terrorists in the Middle East that got shut down?


Jamaican authorities have seized 3,300 warheads and a missile-making machine at the port of Kingston and sought help from international police in tracking the shipper, Jamaican media reported Friday.

The unauthorized arms shipment was discovered Thursday afternoon in a police and customs operation carried out at a berth of Kingston Wharves, the RJR News site reported.
A high-level investigation has been launched, and Jamaican police have asked for assistance from international law enforcement, the news service said.

It was unclear from any of the reports of the seized ordnance how large the warheads were, what type of launch device they were intended to arm or whether the shipment’s end destination was Jamaica or another country... link (http://beforeitsnews.com/terrorism/2013/11/3300-missile-warheads-intercepted-close-to-home-were-they-headed-to-america-for-terror-attacks-here-2447902.html)

as I said, now is not the time for sleeping, everything is moving forward, right now...

in my post, highlighted in blue is the link to the story, I was just searching to see if any more info is available, if it is 3 letter agency, it will be swept under the rug with no other mention...

I'll give you a hint, it never made it to headline news...

why not tout success of stopping a terrorist shipment?

unless the terrorist is...

[Rocky_Shorz]

MKUltra mind control on a nut case calling for Obama's assassination?

the shadow government is pulling out all the stops...

look at the last line...


The Secret Service reportedly became aware of Wilhelmsen’s written threat yesterday, the day before the nation marked the 50th anniversary of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

It’s not immediately clear whether Wilhelmsen’s public statements cross the line from free speech protected by the First Amendment to an actual threat against the president, which is a federal crime.

A spokesman for the Secret Service would not say if the Facebook post had prompted an investigation, but history has shown such threat-making gets top-drawer attention from the agency assigned to protect the president.

“That’s not something we openly discuss,” the Secret Service spokesman said in response to a query from Hatewatch.

Wilhelmsen’s post says the president’s “willful violations and alienation of our Constitution, constant disregard for our peaceful protests and corruption of all the three branches of government, (i.e., rogue and illegitimate government), reveal the dictator that he is. Obama and his co-conspirators disrespect our Constitution (constitutional rule of law) and abuse the American people.”

It continues: “The authority to kill Obama comes from the 2nd Amendment of our Constitution: He is levying war on the United States and aiding and comforting our foreign enemies – the 2nd Amendment gives us the right and duty (authority) to engage an enemy of the United States that does so with the design to reduce us under absolute Despotism. I would be very surprised, if Obama does not leave Washington DC today (Nov. 19th) … never to return, if he is not dead within the month.”

Wilhelmsen is listed as the administrator of the Christian American Patriots Militia. Its Facebook page says it has 1,405 members, who operate as a “closed group.”

“The foundations of our nation are Christian principles built upon the bedrock of Truth, not on the shifting sands of lies,” the group’s Facebook page says. Further, it says the “founding fathers” and the Constitution give modern day Christians the “rights and duty to bear arms against any government having a design to reduce us under absolute Despotism.”

Wilhelmsen has posted other anti-Obama and anti-Muslim comments on Facebook in recent weeks, as well on a Twitter account, where he says he is “fighting illegitimate public authorities and oppression, lifting up the downtrodden and freeing the enslaved.”

His Facebook page says he has “work and education” connections with the Art Center College of Design in Pasadena, Calif., and the “Teheran American School,” in Tehran, Iran. link (http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2013/11/22/man-who-claims-ties-to-christian-american-patriot-militia-threatens-obama-in-facebook-post/)

Obama is brushing off Israel and moving forward with an agreement with Iran on Nukes

is there any doubt who is behind our shadow government?

[Curt]

Interesting is definitely good!

Upping our collective game is the best way to attract good, real info of the most interesting type.

And it should be a fun, satisfying process, I think.

Nobody said we couldn't have a few laughs while we do it. ;)






Nice post, thank you!



we are all already aware that the forum serves those functions. comfort, advice and reassurance are great, sure. but this isn't the "doing" I was referring to.

No, I expect you are talking about changing the world, as if it were not the same thing. This is where we disagree. I can live with that.


boredom, in my opinion, is the worst disease of all. I am not a man who deliberately seeks pain or drama, but a bit of relativity is always required in 3d if we are to achieve perspective. The thing is finding excitement without all the pain and drama. It is not boring at all actually.


if we don't know how lousy the forum can be at times, we'll never know how good it can be either. and so on...Ergo, if we don't know how lousy the world can be at times, we'll never know how good it can be either. Yes, the world is an absolutely wonderful place, I wouldn't want it to change.


we have tons of intelligent, well-intentioned people here. talented people. but there are very few I get excited about reading, if I'm being honest. in an environment like this, originality is such an important thing, maybe the most important thing. most days i'll scan the threads, read a few posts, and i'll find myself screaming (internally;)): "somebody f#cking say something interesting!" and it's not so much that the topic isn't interesting, it's that it's *not being spoken about in an interesting way*. it's an important distinction to make.It depends on what you mean by 'interesting' or 'exciting' (see above). Question: have you (or I) said anything just now that meets these criteria? I very much doubt it.


so if I'm reading Curt right, he seems to be saying: step up your game!!! and I support that sentiment entirely. Me too :)

[Curt]

...And actually...looking at the recent Courtney Brown thread, it seems Avalon is functioning pretty well.

What could have been a major blowout and controversy, has amounted to an intelligent discussion with lots of input.

And without lots of bickering.

Members have contributed their strengths to looking very deeply at a complex issue that could have resulted in a train wreck.

And this has happened even with strong opinions on all sides of the issue.

Some have addressed the RV aspect. Others have examined the structure of how the information has been presented.

People have tended to their areas of interest and gotten on with it.

That's even in spite of the revelations being (what could be called) a bit of a disappointment for many.

Not bad. I think we're getting better.

I should say, this wasn't my initial impression of things.

But looking at it from a more meta-level perspective, (with the help of some sage and impartial advice from Araucaria) it's how I see it now.

[araucaria]

hey Curtis, I've just discovered you've gone outside for a walk or a cigarette or something. We'll still be around, just don't do a Godot on us OK?
Keep well my friend
:)

[Dennis Leahy]

...And actually...looking at the recent Courtney Brown thread, it seems Avalon is functioning pretty well.

What could have been a major blowout and controversy, has amounted to an intelligent discussion with lots of input.

And without lots of bickering.

Members have contributed their strengths to looking very deeply at a complex issue that could have resulted in a train wreck.

And this has happened even with strong opinions on all sides of the issue.

Some have addressed the RV aspect. Others have examined the structure of how the information has been presented.

People have tended to their areas of interest and gotten on with it.

That's even in spite of the revelations being (what could be called) a bit of a disappointment for many.

Not bad. I think we're getting better.

I should say, this wasn't my initial impression of things.

But looking at it from a more meta-level perspective, (with the help of some sage and impartial advice from Araucaria) it's how I see it now.
I found I couldn't "Thank" the post of a member on vacation, so, I'm doing it this way. Thanks, Curtis!

Have a nice vacation.

Dennis