You decide

[Milneman]

Totally random, need thoughts/opinions.

I've recently come in contact with a group that has some interesting claims and predictions. I'd appreciate the insight of other avalonians. I have my own thoughts, will share at the end of the post.

1. The group believes that we are exiting a stage of discord as a collective group of human beings. The discord is attributed to none other than Satan.

2. The new era that is coming is going to be characterized by several things: among these are the disappearance of political and religious borders, the ending of all hunger, disease, and pain; holy men will guide the economic production of the entire planet, families will no longer be relevant, everyone will love God; the weather will stabilise, earthquakes and natural disasters will become extremely nominal.

3. People will begin to live longer. Like 400 years longer. And my personal favorite, extinct species are going to just...come back! I'm not sure which, but personally I'd love to ride a stegosaurus.

4. People who don't believe in the message will not understand the message. In fact, if too many people don't believe the message, the new era just won't happen. And then...oh boy...what will happen then.

Is it just me...or does a lot of this seem like a lot of old...shoeshine?

[kersley]

Sounds good to me bring it on.. I race you on my T-Rex

[seleka]

I will listen and examine most anything. This is a quote that I just got like 2 days ago....
When you label anything, you say - this is the way it is and the only way it can be. This only serves to limit your own understanding. To be truly free from the constraints of belief systems one must be able to constantly change their views to accommodate new truths"
I hesitate to believe or disbelieve anything... except those ones that give me an emotional response I guess... and we can always change our minds again.... but I am over people making predictions... like the channelings, they all say the same thing and we wait...
about the satan part. I was raised christian and bible, but didnt get baptized until I was an adult... and then I read Neale Donald Walsch and decided I no longer believed in an entity known as satan. Then I found out that is who all these 'illuminati' people are 'worshipping'... so yeah that part is confusing...

[johnf]

I am highly suspicious of anything that revolves around certain things that are in this message.

A name of a widely publicized personality that is to blame for or to be congratulated for present or future states of the world, a country,my own life , etc. This is irregardless of what that name is, be it Satan, Jesus, Obama, ,Pope Francis, David Wilcock, or what have you.

Also threats of terrible realities descending on us if the message is not heeded.
Along with such threats often come promises of some sort of sudden Utopia if
the message is heeded.

Jf

[ghostrider]

Satan is an excuse for people to escape from taking responsibility for their own thoughts and actions , they can blame it on the devil ... We are still about 800 years from living longer and moving towards a Utopia world ... many calamities will befall the world due to the actions of man ... As long as the spirit of ego and greed keep re-incarnating on earth , we will have corrupt leaders/politicians/religious and ego maniacs trying to shape the world for the benefit of a few , and poo on the rest of humanity ... the evolution of our minds/thinking is the only real path to a better world ... personal responsibility ...

[Bubu]

MY opinion. put it in the recycle bin and delete it permanently. Then let us go and work to end the hunger.

"everyone will love God" I wish god is not in America or Britain.

[Milneman]

My sentiments exactly.

wrZRrzfMF3o

[Violet]

It reminds me somewhat of Jehova's witnesses.

In (all?) the three monotheistic religions such a stage is predicted to come over earth before the final end of it.

Does this group preach to the grand public too or is it more selective?

[Crystine]

This was a test only a test. Sometime, somewhere ya'll are being evaluated. Myself included. On just how helpfull we each are in bringing about a higher reality. Which by the teachings held here, can be brought about by like thinking minds. Not likely to ever get out of earth 101. Need a more positive attitude.

[Milneman]

It reminds me somewhat of Jehova's witnesses.

In (all?) the three monotheistic religions such a stage is predicted to come over earth before the final end of it.

Does this group preach to the grand public too or is it more selective?

Heya Violet!

First off my love...certain views of Christianity do believe the end time, as written in the Apocalypse, will come about as a result of...let's just say fire and brimstone. However! And this does make me smile when I say this! There are other schools of Christian thought, of which I am one, that believes that there is a mixture of parable and allegory in the Bible that when looked at correctly helps us to see truth about ourselves. The view that the last book of the new testament is a description of the church age from different perspectives is one such view, another is that this is an allegorical description of our own coming to terms with inner truth about the world and our own knowledge of truth. For example, if you think of the woman and the baby that are hidden in the wilderness protected from the dragon as truth that is universal, the infant being the truth that wakes up in your soul one day and opens your eyes, the dragon becomes the parts of ourselves that resist truth because...well because we're selfish creatures that don't want to do what's right most of the time because it means we either have to a) do something unpleasant or b) give up something or some behavior we just don't want to. The groups that believe literal every word of the new testament are missing the point imho.

The group that I'm talking about is trying to, they're reaching out in a way from a certain place that is HEAVILY monitored by government, heavily controlled by government, so I am skeptical...healthily. What I did was do some digging around the internet to find out what the group was about and found a video that made me shake my head at first, break out in laughter second, and worry third.

[Milneman]

How about this for size.
1. The group believes that we are exiting a stage of discord as a collective group of human beings. The discord is attributed to none other than human selfishness.

2. The new era that is coming is going to be characterized by several things: among these are the disappearance of political and religious borders, the ending of all hunger, disease, and pain; holy men will guide the economic production of the entire planet, families will no longer be relevant, everyone will love each other; the weather will stabilise, earthquakes and natural disasters will become extremely nominal.

3. People will begin to live longer. Like 400 years longer. And my personal favorite, extinct species are going to just...come back! I'm not sure which, but personally I'd love to ride a stegosaurus.

4. People who don't believe in the message will not understand the message. In fact, if too many people don't believe the message, the new era just won't happen. And then...oh boy...what will happen then.

Does this change how we feel about the group?

I'll wait another couple of days...I'm considering posting the actual video I saw.

[sheme]

Just a -what if, you understand .

If there was was no night there would be no day ? What if the Illuminati is our yeast and we are the grains of flour, they are the darkness that turns us away to the light, they are the yeast that enables us all to prove ourselves worthy of our very souls.
If darkness did not exist how long would it take us human beings to evolve?

[Crystine]

I always get a chuckle out of the Garden of Eden story. I believe in God. So........if you bake chocolate chip cookies. Then put a plateful in the center of the table. Then you tell the children. DO NOT TOUCH ! Then you go for a stroll. Leaving the kids and the cookies untended. You could be watching. But they don't know that. What do you think they are going to do?

We get out of bed because of stress. We eat because of stress. We sleep because of stress. Same for pooping.

The Big Bang? Because of stress. Birth. Breathing.

Simply put, no stress no life.


A quote from Milnemans quote.

"3. People will begin to live longer. Like 400 years longer. And my personal favorite, extinct species are going to just...come back! I'm not sure which, but personally I'd love to ride a stegasaurous.

I am casting a vote for the extinction of mosquitoes in this Utopia.

[Shezbeth]

How about this for size.
1. The group believes that we are exiting a stage of discord as a collective group of human beings. The discord is attributed to none other than human selfishness.

2. The new era that is coming is going to be characterized by several things: among these are the disappearance of political and religious borders, the ending of all hunger, disease, and pain; holy men will guide the economic production of the entire planet, families will no longer be relevant, everyone will love each other; the weather will stabilise, earthquakes and natural disasters will become extremely nominal.

3. People will begin to live longer. Like 400 years longer. And my personal favorite, extinct species are going to just...come back! I'm not sure which, but personally I'd love to ride a stegosaurus.

4. People who don't believe in the message will not understand the message. In fact, if too many people don't believe the message, the new era just won't happen. And then...oh boy...what will happen then.

Does this change how we feel about the group?

I'll wait another couple of days...I'm considering posting the actual video I saw.

This is a perfectly acceptable disposition for an individual or group to have, but I would be most interested at seeing (critically analyzing) their EVIDENCE. This reads like a metaphysical/spiritual chain letter, and the group is negotiating (promoting/advertizing) from a position of weakness. Not buying.

[Violet]

Milneman, you talk about reading correctly. I've been looking for someone to point me to a correct bible for this purpose. What's your suggestion?

Light & thanks

[Milneman]

This is a perfectly acceptable disposition for an individual or group to have, but I would be most interested at seeing (critically analyzing) their EVIDENCE. This reads like a metaphysical/spiritual chain letter, and the group is negotiating (promoting/advertizing) from a position of weakness.

Well put!

[Milneman]

Milneman, you talk about reading correctly. I've been looking for someone to point me to a correct bible for this purpose. What's your suggestion?

Light & thanks

Before I answer, let me ask you a question: Why do you really want to read the bible?

***edit***

I'd like to suggest a book before you dive into a bible. "Warrented Christian Belief" by Dr. Alvin Plantinga. Available on Amazon.


***edit two***

I'm going to answer your question in another thread, deal? :) Get home tonight, check Saturday evening your time.

Cheers!

[seleka]

In book 4 of the ringing cedars series, anastasia tells us of a group of entities on another planet (in fact she takes vladimir there in second self) that look like us. She said they had been to the earth before and were planning to come again. They would offer us an end to all the problems, every one will have shelter. Pretty much what you said above. Anastasia says it is a thing that will limit us. I posted it once somewhere... wow it is really long. I am not sure if I should post it here or not....it is from book 4, beginning on pg 148 or so and going on until p 158.... here is a link to a streaming file I found online https://archive.org/stream/book_4_Co-creation#page/n153/mode/2up If anyone hasn't read the ringing cedars series I highly recommend it. I have stopped on book 4 for now, though I have seen bits from the books beyond also... it is all mind bending and based on a real, living person.

[Crystine]

Milneman, you talk about reading correctly. I've been looking for someone to point me to a correct bible for this purpose. What's your suggestion?

Light & thanks
------------------------

Violet, I don't know that any version is much better than another. But if you get one. Find one that is In plain English. No thees and thous.
I once read this someplace:

The bible has everything in it to lead a good, exemplary life. And also a lot of junk to confuse you. Read the bible like any other book. With discernment.

A living bible is cool. Called that because it means many things to many people. Depending where you are on your path.

There is plenty that should make you raise your eyebrows. But if you are sincere in all your searching, you will find exactly what you need.
--------------------

Looking back, that was not a question for me to answer. Apologies Milneman

[thunder24]

was the bible first written in plain english?


------------------------

Violet, I don't know that any version is much better than another. But if you get one. Find one that is In plain English. No thees and thous.
I once read this someplace:

The bible has everything in it to lead a good, exemplary life. And also a lot of junk to confuse you. Read the bible like any other book. With discernment.

A living bible is cool. Called that because it means many things to many people. Depending where you are on your path.

There is plenty that should make you raise your eyebrows. But if you are sincere in all your searching, you will find exactly what you need.
--------------------

Looking back, that was not a question for me to answer. Apologies Milneman

[Crystine]

was the bible first written in plain english?


------------------------

Violet, I don't know that any version is much better than another. But if you get one. Find one that is In plain English. No thees and thous.
I once read this someplace:

The bible has everything in it to lead a good, exemplary life. And also a lot of junk to confuse you. Read the bible like any other book. With discernment.

A living bible is cool. Called that because it means many things to many people. Depending where you are on your path.

There is plenty that should make you raise your eyebrows. But if you are sincere in all your searching, you will find exactly what you need.
--------------------

Looking back, that was not a question for me to answer. Apologies Milneman


-----------------

The original writings were in Hebrew, Aramaic , and Greek. Of course now you can acquire one in almost any language. I speak English. So mine is in English. I am more comfortable with regular English. Not the kings. (Thees and thous.)

Google search. For the exact history. I am not sure what you are getting at.

[thunder24]

well i guess one would have to assume the translations were "accurate" for the published english translation to b "accurate"...

I don't speak any of those other languages nor do I know the etymology of ALL the words used in English, thus neither do I know the etymology of ALL the words used in the English Bible....

Trust in someone elses accuracy of translation is ,i.m.o., risky business....
...just a consideration.

peace

[Vitalux]

Totally random, need thoughts/opinions.

Is it just me...or does a lot of this seem like a lot of old...shoeshine?


They probably represent mainstream society overall in practice.

Like a herd of ignorant, blind, insane morons joining into groups while standing on little soap boxes explaining reality to the insane, us humans are so egocentric :noidea:

[Crystine]

well i guess one would have to assume the translations were "accurate" for the published english translation to b "accurate"...

I don't speak any of those other languages nor do I know the etymology of ALL the words used in English, thus neither do I know the etymology of ALL the words used in the English Bible....

Trust in someone elses accuracy of translation is ,i.m.o., risky business....
...just a consideration.

peace

Not trusting anyone persons translation. Trusting in the Holy Spirit directing what I receive from reading it. I will receive exactly what I need at that given moment.

[Crystine]

As long as we are breathing, we can be no other way. But caution is necessary, that in the quest for escaping the veil of illusion, we don't stumble off the path back into another web of illusion. Being completely jaded is also illusion.

[1 flew over]

Milneman, you talk about reading correctly. I've been looking for someone to point me to a correct bible for this purpose. What's your suggestion?

Light & thanks

Violet

My personal viewpoint is that there is no ONE correct Bible.

The original Orthodox Canon was intentionally "shaped" toward a specific direction and purpose and I would be called a heretic and damned for all eternity for suggesting such. It has some good points but is hardly well rounded or complete in concept in my, oh so humble, opinion.

There are probably 25 or so "Christian" Bibles currently in use depending on the group that they were prepared for. When you decide on an Orthodox version of your choice I might also suggest translations of some of the non-orthodox writings that were found in the Nag Hammadi Scrolls or the Dead Sea Scrolls. They include writings from the “other” Apostles that the Roman Catholic Church did not want included because these Apostles portrayed the man that is currently called Jesus differently than they wanted presented for their purpose. They were written by St Thomas (called the doubting Thomas), Mary Magdalene( called a whore), Judas ( called the eternal traitor). After all, the writers were debased and degraded and all works other than the specifically chosen orthodox scripture were ordered burned by the powers that be. That raised my curiosity of what was written in them. I personally think that they understood Yesua significantly more that the orthodox writings included in the RC Canon.

There are some wonderful books that for me greatly filled out my understanding of Yesua. One writer that I especially like is Reverend Dr. Cynthia Bourgeault, an Episcopalian Priest and biblical scholar. She has written books such as Centering Prayer, The Wisdom Jesus, The Meaning of Mary Magdalene, Chanting the Psalms and others. I have found her to be a brilliant writer and all her works consistently have at least a 4 ½ star rating on Amazon. She has greatly helped me to expand my viewpoint and understanding.

Of course; your mileage may vary

May Your God be with You.

1 Flew Over

p.s. There are a couple other threads The real Jesus, the real Mary, Gnosis, the Archons, and the world's first major smear campaign that was started by Bill at http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?61859-The-real-Jesus-the-real-Mary-Gnosis-the-Archons-and-the-world-s-first-major-smear-campaign&highlight=jesus and another called Did Jesus really exist started by somebody else at http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?61802-Did-Jesus-Really-exist&highlight=jesus. They have some very good reading for those willing to open their minds a bit. I especially liked Bill's thread.

Be Well

[Rocky_Shorz]

This was a test only a test. Sometime, somewhere ya'll are being evaluated. Myself included. On just how helpfull we each are in bringing about a higher reality. Which by the teachings held here, can be brought about by like thinking minds. Not likely to ever get out of earth 101. Need a more positive attitude.

there is no difference between religious and a new age belief that says we all have to be good or we're trapped in hell/Earth again and again without a chance of seeing God/raising up to a higher reality...

break free from the dogma wherever they come at you from...

a closer truth is we are all young Gods, bored with a perfect life so hopped into a game to play Earth, the best video game ever!!!

when you see Game Over...

you'll wake up as a boring old God again...

and wish you were back...

[Rocky_Shorz]

well i guess one would have to assume the translations were "accurate" for the published english translation to b "accurate"...

I don't speak any of those other languages nor do I know the etymology of ALL the words used in English, thus neither do I know the etymology of ALL the words used in the English Bible....

Trust in someone elses accuracy of translation is ,i.m.o., risky business....
...just a consideration.

peace

well...

Book of Solomon...


in todays world go tell your gal her belly reminds me of a pile of grain...

her skin like a special horse...

our brains can't comprehend what he wrote was a love story without someone translating not just the words but the meanings...

I pick up any bible let it drop open and glance down knowing what passage for me to look at...

I need it in my English... ;)

[Crystine]

This was a test only a test. Sometime, somewhere ya'll are being evaluated. Myself included. On just how helpfull we each are in bringing about a higher reality. Which by the teachings held here, can be brought about by like thinking minds. Not likely to ever get out of earth 101. Need a more positive attitude.

there is no difference between religious and a new age belief that says we all have to be good or we're trapped in hell/Earth again and again without a chance of seeing God/raising up to a higher reality...

break free from the dogma wherever they come at you from...

a closer truth is we are all young Gods, bored with a perfect life so hopped into a game to play Earth, the best video game ever!!!

when you see Game Over...

you'll wake up as a boring old God again...

and wish you were back...





Not sure what you took from that post. Only to allow kindness when criticizing others.
I would not want to stop someone who is shy from speaking up. We might miss something excellent .

[Crystine]

23914

well i guess one would have to assume the translations were "accurate" for the published english translation to b "accurate"...

I don't speak any of those other languages nor do I know the etymology of ALL the words used in English, thus neither do I know the etymology of ALL the words used in the English Bible....

Trust in someone elses accuracy of translation is ,i.m.o., risky business....
...just a consideration.

peace

well...

Book of Solomon...


in todays world go tell your gal her belly reminds me of a pile of grain...

her skin like a special horse...

our brains can't comprehend what he wrote was a love story without someone translating not just the words but the meanings...

I pick up any bible let it drop open and glance down knowing what passage for me to look at...

I need it in my English... ;)

----------------------------

And here it is----------1. Compass: The Study Bible for Navigating Your Life

Image Courtesy of Thomas Nelson
Released in September 2013*, the concept behind the Compass Bible is just as the title implies. It was designed to help people connect with God by pointing them in the right direction and revealing how they fit into God's story. Compass is written in The Voice translation, a refreshing new crossbreed of "word-for-word" and "thought-for-thought" translation approaches. I decided to give Compass the ultimate test by starting my reading in the book of Revelation. I have to say, I was amazed and impressed. Never before has this difficult book of the Bible come alive and stirred my emotions while simply reading in my quiet time. Personally, I think Compass would make a great gift for a new believer, a seeker, or anyone who wants to take a fresh and meaningful journey though the Scriptures.
*Currently only available in Wal-Mart stores. Compass will be released online February 2014.

[Rocky_Shorz]

This was a test only a test. Sometime, somewhere ya'll are being evaluated. Myself included. - unknown judge of actions


On just how helpfull we each are in bringing about a higher reality. Which by the teachings held here, can be brought about by like thinking minds. Not likely to ever get out of earth 101. Need a more positive attitude.

by the teachings held here, is kind of directed at everyone reading or part of Avalon, will never get out of earth... is really kind of condemning...

please don't take these comments wrong, I'm just sharing how through our writings, it shares a part of our beliefs as subtle as it is... one tiny insult to some is enough to keep them from joining a conversation...

talking beliefs can be very tricky to speak in words kind to everyone that is reading...




there is no difference between religious and a new age belief that says we all have to be good or we're trapped in hell/Earth again and again without a chance of seeing God/raising up to a higher reality...

break free from the dogma wherever they come at you from...

a closer truth is we are all young Gods, bored with a perfect life so hopped into a game to play Earth, the best video game ever!!!

when you see Game Over...

you'll wake up as a boring old God again...

and wish you were back...





Not sure what you took from that post. Only to allow kindness when criticizing others. ...................... :)

[Rocky_Shorz]

23914

well i guess one would have to assume the translations were "accurate" for the published english translation to b "accurate"...

I don't speak any of those other languages nor do I know the etymology of ALL the words used in English, thus neither do I know the etymology of ALL the words used in the English Bible....

Trust in someone elses accuracy of translation is ,i.m.o., risky business....
...just a consideration.

peace

well...

Book of Solomon...


in todays world go tell your gal her belly reminds me of a pile of grain...

her skin like a special horse...

our brains can't comprehend what he wrote was a love story without someone translating not just the words but the meanings...

I pick up any bible let it drop open and glance down knowing what passage for me to look at...

I need it in my English... ;)

----------------------------

And here it is----------1. Compass: The Study Bible for Navigating Your Life

Image Courtesy of Thomas Nelson
Released in September 2013*, the concept behind the Compass Bible is just as the title implies. It was designed to help people connect with God by pointing them in the right direction and revealing how they fit into God's story. Compass is written in The Voice translation, a refreshing new crossbreed of "word-for-word" and "thought-for-thought" translation approaches. I decided to give Compass the ultimate test by starting my reading in the book of Revelation. I have to say, I was amazed and impressed. Never before has this difficult book of the Bible come alive and stirred my emotions while simply reading in my quiet time. Personally, I think Compass would make a great gift for a new believer, a seeker, or anyone who wants to take a fresh and meaningful journey though the Scriptures.
*Currently only available in Wal-Mart stores. Compass will be released online February 2014.

when God first gave me a message to deliver, I didn't believe it was him so made him give me the next days lottery numbers, he gave me 2 which also solves the riddle of the beast... long story...

when I read a passage, voices continue in my mind explaining further what I just read...

when it starts in words I understand, they don't have to explain quite as much...

23915

next time I'm at Walmart I'll take a glance

Jonah and the Whale is on page 777 in the bible I use...

I've unlocked so many hidden messages, like the book was written in my language waiting for me...

show me which one explains the Holy Spirit is God's wife standing beside his throne...

I'm still waiting for that version...

[Milneman]

Ok maybe a different thread isn't the right scope, so let's stay here. Ready? Sit down kids, could get bumpy. :)

First of all, one thing I have to make really clear is that when I started going through the Gnostic material was the possibility that my own belief system might be completely inaccurate, or partially inaccurate, or not inaccurate. I have to be open to the idea that what I believe is balderdash (I love that word!). I'm bringing this up not because I want to bring Gnosticism into this, but to point out that I am really open to the idea that what I believe could be completely wrong and I may have to do some major re-working of my world view if that's the case.

Violet's post seems to lead to the question, how can we trust one written source to be true? (I could be wrong! I trust Violet will correct me if I am!) Specifically, how can we derive any truth from any particular book of the Bible, or which "translation" of the Bible. This is a really good question, but is there a way we can make it more powerful? Is there a way we can strengthen the question to get closer to the truth of the matter?

What if we include all religious texts. That's tricky, and a problem, because it opens the door to the possibility we are being biased towards written texts that have a spiritual, religious, or dogmatic tint. And listen, people believe in the dogma of gravity as much as the dogma of original sin (not saying they are associated in any way here kids). I think we have to include scientific writing.

What about literature? Are we able to discern the true meaning of "The Fountainhead", for example? I think we have to include literature, and certainly poetry here as well.

So Violet's question, his argument, if I read you correctly Violet, and if I strengthen your argument correctly becomes: how can we trust or believe anything we read if there is no objective way of placing value to written language?

Do you see the problem here?

The proposition is self refuting. Now, the argument might go towards belief in certain texts, specific texts. I won't get into that here.

As to beliefs that seem on the surface to be strange, but have validity when examined rationally (yep, I'm a rationalist with a shake of skepticism, very sparse shake of skepticism) there is one way you can test it. For example, is it rational to believe that species will return to life? If you put cloning into the equation, the likelihood grows, I will grant you! But the group in question, I have my doubts. Which isn't to say you aren't in your rights to have your doubts about my belief system either. By the way...feel free to ask. :) I'm an open book.

[thunder24]

I've unlocked so many hidden messages, like the book was written in my language waiting for me...

show me which one explains the Holy Spirit is God's wife standing beside his throne...

I'm still waiting for that version...

http://news.discovery.com/history/religion/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.htm


God, also known as Yahweh, had a wife named Asherah, according to a British theologian.

- Amulets, figurines, inscriptions and ancient texts, including the Bible, reveal Asherah's once prominent standing.

God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford scholar.


"After years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel, however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some, uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife," she added.

Stavrakopoulou bases her theory on ancient texts, amulets and figurines unearthed primarily in the ancient Canaanite coastal city called Ugarit, now modern-day Syria. All of these artifacts reveal that Asherah was a powerful fertility goddess.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.fan.gene-scott/r1fB6CIj7Hk


"Mentions of the goddess Asherah in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament)
are rare and have been heavily edited by the ancient authors who
gathered the texts together," Aaron Brody, director of the Bade Museum
and an associate professor of Bible and archaeology at the Pacific
School of Religion, said.....

...Asherah as a tree symbol was even said to have been "chopped down and
burned outside the Temple in acts of certain rulers who were trying to
'purify' the cult, and focus on the worship of a single male god,
Yahweh," he added....

[Crystine]

Rockyshorz:
I am surprised, You deliberately distorted what I said. You don't win by doing this to another. You are hurting yourself.

[Freed Fox]

As far as I understand, the bible was originally written in ancient Hebrew.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Hebrew

The thing about this language, is that it consisted of only consonants. Later on, the vowels were added which served to impart meaning to these words in more modern translations. Therefore, the original messages/meanings could be quite different from what we have arrived on today (even despite there being several different versions/interpretations).

There was a video posted here on Avalon some time back, of a lecture from a biblical linguistic scholar who worked for the Vatican for a time to produce a new translation from the oldest texts available. He arrived at some very different interpretations of those texts and was therefore dismissed (or 'laid off', as it were). For the life of me, I cannot remember the man's name or the what that thread was called. Among other things, he indicated that the texts described multiple 'gods' rather than one, and various passages seemed to overtly refer to spacecraft. If anyone can help out, I'd appreciate it (as would others here, I'm sure). It's impossible to say if he was correct in his understanding or not, but it was an interesting piece nonetheless.

[thunder24]

There was a video posted here on Avalon some time back, of a lecture from a biblical linguistic scholar who worked for the Vatican for a time to produce a new translation from the oldest texts available. He arrived at some very different interpretations of those texts and was therefore dismissed (or 'laid off', as it were). For the life of me, I cannot remember the man's name or the what that thread was called. Among other things, he indicated that the texts described multiple 'gods' rather than one, and various passages seemed to overtly refer to spacecraft. If anyone can help out, I'd appreciate it (as would others here, I'm sure). It's impossible to say if he was correct in his understanding or not, but it was an interesting piece nonetheless.

you are correct.... lets see if we can find that...

[161803398]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?j4MXLB6SwPg

[Freed Fox]

Bingo! That's it.

Thanks, uhm... 161803398(?)!

(No offense, but ever consider a username change?) ;) :lol:

[Crystine]

As far as I understand, the bible was originally written in ancient Hebrew.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Hebrew

The thing about this language, is that it consisted of only consonants. Later on, the vowels were added which served to impart meaning to these words in more modern translations. Therefore, the original messages/meanings could be quite different from what we have arrived on today (even despite there being several different versions/interpretations).

There was a video posted here on Avalon some time back, of a lecture from a biblical linguistic scholar who worked for the Vatican for a time to produce a new translation from the oldest texts available. He arrived at some very different interpretations of those texts and was therefore dismissed (or 'laid off', as it were). For the life of me, I cannot remember the man's name or the what that thread was called. Among other things, he indicated that the texts described multiple 'gods' rather than one, and various passages seemed to overtly refer to spacecraft. If anyone can help out, I'd appreciate it (as would others here, I'm sure). It's impossible to say if he was correct in his understanding or not, but it was an interesting piece nonetheless.

------------------

There was a well-known controversy about the punctuation in this sentence. At the crucifixion Jesus said to
The Good Thief, "Truely I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise. The placement of the comma is in question. Where it is the time of arrival in heaven is Now today. Move the comma to after the word today..........and today marks the time the promise is being made. Just to illustrate how important punctuation is. But in Hebrew, words have different forms for beginning and ending sentences. So that is somewhat of a guideline. I am not a linguist. But this is not hard to follow.

[Crystine]

As far as I understand, the bible was originally written in ancient Hebrew.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Hebrew

The thing about this language, is that it consisted of only consonants. Later on, the vowels were added which served to impart meaning to these words in more modern translations. Therefore, the original messages/meanings could be quite different from what we have arrived on today (even despite there being several different versions/interpretations).

There was a video posted here on Avalon some time back, of a lecture from a biblical linguistic scholar who worked for the Vatican for a time to produce a new translation from the oldest texts available. He arrived at some very different interpretations of those texts and was therefore dismissed (or 'laid off', as it were). For the life of me, I cannot remember the man's name or the what that thread was called. Among other things, he indicated that the texts described multiple 'gods' rather than one, and various passages seemed to overtly refer to spacecraft. If anyone can help out, I'd appreciate it (as would others here, I'm sure). It's impossible to say if he was correct in his understanding or not, but it was an interesting piece nonetheless.

---------------------------------

See post 21. Thanks.
His name BTW: John Marco Allegro.

[Robin]

See post 21. Thanks.

Post #21 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65919-You-decide&p=765125&viewfull=1#post765125)

:thumb:

You can find the link to individual comments in the top right corner of a comment. It makes it easier for people to find the comment.

23931

[Milneman]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this thread is cooked.

[Rocky_Shorz]

I've unlocked so many hidden messages, like the book was written in my language waiting for me...

show me which one explains the Holy Spirit is God's wife standing beside his throne...

I'm still waiting for that version...

http://news.discovery.com/history/religion/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.htm


God, also known as Yahweh, had a wife named Asherah, according to a British theologian.

- Amulets, figurines, inscriptions and ancient texts, including the Bible, reveal Asherah's once prominent standing.

God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford scholar.


"After years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel, however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some, uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife," she added.

Stavrakopoulou bases her theory on ancient texts, amulets and figurines unearthed primarily in the ancient Canaanite coastal city called Ugarit, now modern-day Syria. All of these artifacts reveal that Asherah was a powerful fertility goddess.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.fan.gene-scott/r1fB6CIj7Hk


"Mentions of the goddess Asherah in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament)
are rare and have been heavily edited by the ancient authors who
gathered the texts together," Aaron Brody, director of the Bade Museum
and an associate professor of Bible and archaeology at the Pacific
School of Religion, said.....

...Asherah as a tree symbol was even said to have been "chopped down and
burned outside the Temple in acts of certain rulers who were trying to
'purify' the cult, and focus on the worship of a single male god,
Yahweh," he added....

around the time of King David, she was worshiped as God's wife...


Over the past few decades, several inscriptions have been unearthed in Israel that invoke the blessing of "Yahweh and his Asherah," a phrase that implies a divine couple. "Asherah" is the Canaanite version of the mother goddess worshipped elsewhere as Ishtar or Astarte. She appears often in the Old Testament as part of the paganism the prophets were fighting, and they were always telling the people to "cut down their Asherah poles."

And the LORD will strike Israel, so that it will be like a reed swaying in the water. He will uproot Israel from this good land that he gave to their ancestors and scatter them beyond the Euphrates River, because they aroused the LORD’s anger by making Asherah poles. (I Kings 14:15)

These poles were representations of the divine tree that often symbolizes Asherah/Astarte in Middle Eastern art.

There are a few hints, though, that worship of Asherah had long been part of the Israelite religion. Deuteronomy 16:21 commands:

Do not set up any wooden Asherah pole beside the altar you build to the LORD your God.

II Kings 21 tells us that Manasseh installed an Asherah pole in the Temple in Jerusalem. If you hold (as I do) to the interpretation that Hebrew monotheism was a development of a later period, around the time of the Babylonian Captivity, it follows that the practices the Bible's authors denounced as innovations were actually the old Hebrew way. If so, in the time of David and Solomon Yahweh must usually have been depicted with a divine wife... link (http://benedante.blogspot.com/2011/03/when-god-of-hebrews-was-married.html)

so Islam was created to honor women, and the memory of Asherah was cast down and replaced with Sharia law, the most female condemning rules since the stone ages...

what is it about the churches that made them feel worshiping Satan was better than some worshiping God's wife?

as the Holy spirit, she is God's switchboard...

no wonder so many religious leaders and followers have their prayers ignored...

a new thought to ponder...

was God's wife Asherah Lucifer, or was it Christ's mother the Virgin Mary?

and yes, this discussion is about to turn Luciferian...

[Rocky_Shorz]

the translation for Lucifer in Latin is Lightbringer...

the Holy spirit can step into anyone at any time, did God's Wife Asherah step into the Virgin Mary to have Jesus, their son?

while there she wields God destructive powers, in Hindu, Tara...

could this really be the holy grail, the living being of the Holy Spirit while on earth?

was the Holy Grail of history, a coffin of one of her vessels? now a box of dust...

no, the actual living being keeps reincarnating back again and again through history...

If King David had spoke with her, I'm sure there is a good reason for him being a God fearing man... heheh

so many truths of Lucifer, and the Holy Grail kept from all of us, and yet she is a part of us...

knowing is understanding...

Satan, never was or will be, no matter how many books tell you "the truth" those who know, will tell you differently...

but please, be my guest and keep reading...

it's a great history book, with messages to grow by, but not all the truths...

the 67th book is the hidden scroll, time to move this world beyond 33+33

[Crystine]

Rocky shorz: you have perverted this thread.

[thunder24]

..........
.

What about literature? Are we able to discern the true meaning of "The Fountainhead", for example? I think we have to include literature, and certainly poetry here as well.

So Violet's question, his argument, if I read you correctly Violet, and if I strengthen your argument correctly becomes: how can we trust or believe anything we read if there is no objective way of placing value to written language?

Do you see the problem here?

The proposition is self refuting. Now, the argument might go towards belief in certain texts, specific texts. I won't get into that here.

I'm an open book.

Some say this reality is personal experience. Some say we have angels, demons, spirits, higher selves, God, gods, Et's influencing us all the time...
The more we put into ourselves in regards to information, the more the information can b pulled from within to show the individual things within them and within the 3d world we see...

Man mayb equal in rights, but not in abilities.... If I am on a mountain and see a lake...it becomes objective to me; no?! I tell the people below that there is water over there, but they don't believe that fact... so am I being objective or subjective in their eyes?! Everything is everything

The trust comes from research, observe, show and prove... All starting with in U!
What you find to b objective today, might b subjective tomarrow as you grow and learn...

something like ben kanobi telling luke skywalker, that from a perspective Darth Vader isn't his dad, so he didn't lie.... so how can luke trust ben again...?

These groups have come to an understanding, and want to share and or scare. Its like raising a kid, people "put the fear of God" into the kid so it will behave... is that caring or scareing?! objective or subjective for the parent or the kid....

ok im dizzy on that one...

peace

[Crystine]

I do not fear God. I fear those humans who share this life, purposefully hurting others. All are not strong. All are not fearless. We need to have authority. None of us are capable of being perfect. Laws are obeyed by good people. These good people would have behaved the same without the law. Others need the boundaries the laws establish to keep in line. Others, obviously do not behave even with the laws. Hence our justice systems.

[Kalamos]

..........

[Kalamos]

..........

[thunder24]

I honestly believe that Humans have an Enemy. People believe all kinds of things, aliens, satan, just human nature or our karma playing out. But I believe there is an enemy to mankind. If you want to look more into it, check out Jeffery/viveks threads lately. He's on to something: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65841-Hyperdimensional-Beings-Evolution-and-Sri-Aurobindo


If you can release yourself from ALL ideologies, rise about your reactionary emotional self, believe nothing, but that you are inherently divine in your Consciousness Aspect (the I AM), that you can be secured that NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS, YOU (and I, as we are One in Consciousness) will not perish!

:)

If you believe nothing, how can you believe you have an enemy... and if the yang is in the same circle as the yin (everything is everything) how can you have an enemy?
unless of course the enemy is inside, thus you and i are both and neither... everything is everything....:p ;)

[Kalamos]

..........

[Kalamos]

..........

[thunder24]

As it is, I talk from EGO and SPIRIT, so it IS confusing. As I did above.


(I don't know who was talking there. I NEED to go a Chinese buffet. BYE!)

now how did i know you were gonna say this...... :rapture:

bon appetite....peace

[Rocky_Shorz]

Rocky shorz: you have perverted this thread.

the devil made me do it... :pound:

[Shezbeth]

Funny how a dogmatic individual can dogmatize, yet act affronted when the dogmatism is subtly alluded to; Glass houses I guess.

Oh? Agressive dogmatism isn't a form of throwing stones? Subjective bias I guess.

The two things I agree :lie: with -

1 - Rocky Shorz is evil, a perverter, a curmudgeon, and just plain bad bad bad for having a disparate interpretation. Bad! :rolleyes:

2 - Spiritual guidance is only available in the book section of Walmart.

Other than those two truths, y'all are cracked.

[lightning23]

:closed::closed:

[1 flew over]

Hi Guys

I ran across a video called the History of the Devil a few years back and found it quite neutrally informative. It is well done and interviews priests, deacons, ministers and biblical scholars. It is quite different from what was force fed to me in Bible School. The Satan of the Old Testament was actually helping God and was never cast out. Might be worth a few minutes to see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8XQbqZUkms

Be Well
1 Flew Over

[Milneman]

That's the problem with empiricism. Next person that quotes John Locke to me on this, I have a surprise for you. :) I'm not an empiricist so I don't have this problem.

But if you want to be an empiricist, enjoy!



..........
.

What about literature? Are we able to discern the true meaning of "The Fountainhead", for example? I think we have to include literature, and certainly poetry here as well.

So Violet's question, his argument, if I read you correctly Violet, and if I strengthen your argument correctly becomes: how can we trust or believe anything we read if there is no objective way of placing value to written language?

Do you see the problem here?

The proposition is self refuting. Now, the argument might go towards belief in certain texts, specific texts. I won't get into that here.

I'm an open book.

Some say this reality is personal experience. Some say we have angels, demons, spirits, higher selves, God, gods, Et's influencing us all the time...
The more we put into ourselves in regards to information, the more the information can b pulled from within to show the individual things within them and within the 3d world we see...

Man mayb equal in rights, but not in abilities.... If I am on a mountain and see a lake...it becomes objective to me; no?! I tell the people below that there is water over there, but they don't believe that fact... so am I being objective or subjective in their eyes?! Everything is everything

The trust comes from research, observe, show and prove... All starting with in U!
What you find to b objective today, might b subjective tomarrow as you grow and learn...

something like ben kanobi telling luke skywalker, that from a perspective Darth Vader isn't his dad, so he didn't lie.... so how can luke trust ben again...?

These groups have come to an understanding, and want to share and or scare. Its like raising a kid, people "put the fear of God" into the kid so it will behave... is that caring or scareing?! objective or subjective for the parent or the kid....

ok im dizzy on that one...

peace

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I honestly believe that Humans have an Enemy. People believe all kinds of things, aliens, satan, just human nature or our karma playing out. But I believe there is an enemy to mankind. If you want to look more into it, check out Jeffery/viveks threads lately. He's on to something: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65841-Hyperdimensional-Beings-Evolution-and-Sri-Aurobindo

IF it weren't for this Force, which is possibly just a force of Nature (this darkness, the negative Yang), we would be a lot better off, and not so damn brainwashed and mind controlled in general. This enemy is upping IT's game too, because it knows it's days are numbered.

If you can release yourself from ALL ideologies, rise about your reactionary emotional self, believe nothing, but that you are inherently divine in your Consciousness Aspect (the I AM), that you can be secured that NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS, YOU (and I, as we are One in Consciousness) will not perish!

:)

I love you and you're going to hate my guts.

That's a great ideology you have about freeing yourself from ideologies.

Why.....haven't.....you.....gone.....LONGBOARDING? :D

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Funny how a dogmatic individual can dogmatize, yet act affronted when the dogmatism is subtly alluded to; Glass houses I guess.

Oh? Agressive dogmatism isn't a form of throwing stones? Subjective bias I guess.

The two things I agree :lie: with -

1 - Rocky Shorz is evil, a perverter, a curmudgeon, and just plain bad bad bad for having a disparate interpretation. Bad! :rolleyes:

2 - Spiritual guidance is only available in the book section of Walmart.

Other than those two truths, y'all are cracked.

LMAO!!!! Right on! :D

[thunder24]

That's the problem with empiricism. Next person that quotes John Locke to me on this, I have a surprise for you. :) I'm not an empiricist so I don't have this problem.

But if you want to be an empiricist, enjoy!



what about the experience of intuition...? lol

peace

[Kalamos]

..........

[Milneman]

WELL DONE YOU!

So where you wanna meet? :D

[Kalamos]

..........

[Milneman]

[/QUOTE]

what about the experience of intuition...? lol

peace[/QUOTE]

Depends on how you define intuition! If you're an empiricist, you can't believe intuition exists unless its a culmination of sense experiences.

If you're a rationalist...the kind of rationalist I am, you define it as an experience that in part arises from innate ideas that pre-exist in the human mind.

Now the really interesting question to ask is....How did those ideas get there?

At least you didn't quote Locke. Had you done that I would've had to get my big, black cast iron frying pan and while you weren't....KIDDING! :) :)

Try again bud. :) You're using your noodle and that's brilliant.

Which is now to say this thread has drifted off topic, way off topic. But you know what, let's go with the flow. :)

[thunder24]

so how bout the intuitional experience pointed out to calamus above where i said I knew he was gonna write what he did? How did that pre-exist, I experienced the flash of it as it was being written... where does that fit?





what about the experience of intuition...? lol

peace

Depends on how you define intuition! If you're an empiricist, you can't believe intuition exists unless its a culmination of sense experiences.

If you're a rationalist...the kind of rationalist I am, you define it as an experience that in part arises from innate ideas that pre-exist in the human mind.

Now the really interesting question to ask is....How did those ideas get there?

At least you didn't quote Locke. Had you done that I would've had to get my big, black cast iron frying pan and while you weren't....KIDDING! :) :)

Try again bud. :) You're using your noodle and that's brilliant.

Which is now to say this thread has drifted off topic, way off topic. But you know what, let's go with the flow. :)

"My brain is only a receiver, in the Universe there is core from which we obtain knowledge, strength and inspiration. I have not penetrated into the secrets of this core, but i know that it exists..."- Nikola tesla

[Milneman]

well i guess one would have to assume the translations were "accurate" for the published english translation to b "accurate"...

I don't speak any of those other languages nor do I know the etymology of ALL the words used in English, thus neither do I know the etymology of ALL the words used in the English Bible....

Trust in someone elses accuracy of translation is ,i.m.o., risky business....
...just a consideration.

peace

Sorry my friend, I'm playing deep dish catch up here.

And I'm going to do some deep dish attempt at philosophy here too. Bear with me.

One more time...(I'm so drifting back into an 80's hair band moment here)....with FEELING.....

Sometimes you don't need to speak the language. Sometimes, you can know the meaning of key words, or take the word of others who do speak the language. What, you say? I have to trust them? Guess what my friend. Every single time you study history, you need faith. It sucks, but it's a reality. Every time you read anything, you need faith. Yup, that really sucks. But it's true.

Oh no, I suggest you get a thesaurus or a dictionary! But, you say, trust in someone elses accuracy of a translation is, OR, let's say meaning because that is associated with translation, as well as ideas associated with words, is...you guessed it, dependent upon...oh sh!t here he goes again....faith. :)

Your philosophy is descending into skepticism my friend. And the problem with that is this: Do you know that you can't trust the meaning of words, specifically written words, because there can't be significant meanings associated with those words?

Answer one question, thunder. :) If that is true, what you say, how can you understand anything you are reading right now, or trust that we are able to understand what you're saying?

There's a name I'm going to use in association with your position. You, my friend, in this regard, are a solipsistic.

So the next step then is how does one determine where to put valid associations with faith? How do you take a step to assess the reasonableness of a proposition, say:

1. The group believes that we are exiting a stage of discord as a collective group of human beings. The discord is attributed to none other than Satan.

2. The new era that is coming is going to be characterized by several things: among these are the disappearance of political and religious borders, the ending of all hunger, disease, and pain; holy men will guide the economic production of the entire planet, families will no longer be relevant, everyone will love God; the weather will stabilise, earthquakes and natural disasters will become extremely nominal.

3. People will begin to live longer. Like 400 years longer. And my personal favorite, extinct species are going to just...come back! I'm not sure which, but personally I'd love to ride a stegosaurus.

4. People who don't believe in the message will not understand the message. In fact, if too many people don't believe the message, the new era just won't happen. And then...oh boy...what will happen then.

It seems to me you can do two things, at least, that may help. You use your common sense to check the rationality of the proposition. I'm a rationalist, remember? :) So the above four propositions...how rational are they, let's say 1 being the most impossible, and ten being the most possible?

If I leave the word "God" out and use a suitable replacement, I would say proposition one is close to ten. Say an 8 or a 9.

Proposition two, again if I leave the word "God" out of the equation, I'm going to say it's "not" so close to a rational belief. Without the aid of a nuclear war, do you think it's rational to believe that in the next 2 or 3 months borders are going to vanish? It's possible! But it's not likely. Families not relevant, holy men leading the economy? Eeeeeh......not likely. Again! Probable, but not likely. Given the lack of evidence of scientific evidence, all things being equal, the predictions about natural disasters is again...unlikely...but still probable! Still, proposition two rates about a 3 for me.

Proposition three. People living longer, yes! I can see with advances in medical science this is probable! Given human nature, the need for greed, the level of human intelligence, I'd give that about a 7! But 400 years longer? I have a problem with this. So that knocks that proposition down to 5. Same with the extinct species model. Given the lack of scientific evidence or explanation in this groups materials, and all things being equal, it's chances of being true are...slim. So prop three busts down to 3 for me.

Proposition four on the other hand....do you see anything in this that is just remotely sophist? It boils down to this: If you don't believe I'm going to grow another arm out of my forehead, and everyone who reads this forum doesn't believe I'm going to grow an arm out of my forehead, an arm will not grow out of my forehead and it will be...wait for it....YOUR fault. Probable, VERY unlikely. I give it a 1.

So in total, these set of propositions when I tally up the score end up with 15 out of a possible 40. Therefore, all things being equal, if this group claims these propositions are true, I believe they are not rational, and therefore have rational reasons to believe they are either deluded or...worse...being deluded by someone who's smarter, less ethical, you name it.

If anything, what I hope this post is going to convey is that you need faith, but you also have to think using your common sense to discern "how" to place that faith. This is the kind of thing I'm going through right now looking through the Nag Hammadi stuff. And it can be challenging! But you can't get there by pretending to take the steps.

Nice try! :)

[Milneman]

so how bout the intuitional experience pointed out to calamus above where i said I knew he was gonna write what he did? How did that pre-exist, I experienced the flash of it as it was being written... where does that fit?

You tell me. How does it fit? :) I'm sure you're dying to!

Again, good try thunder! You ever get out this way, first round is on me my friend. :) :)

[thunder24]

I don't understand... because its obvious..." significant meanings can't be associated with those words".... :p

I thought i was talking to myself here...you mean there is another...other...than myself?! :p







Your philosophy is descending into skepticism my friend. And the problem with that is this: Do you know that you can't trust the meaning of words, specifically written words, because there can't be significant meanings associated with those words?

Answer one question, thunder. :) If that is true, what you say, how can you understand anything you are reading right now, or trust that we are able to understand what you're saying?

There's a name I'm going to use in association with your position. You, my friend, in this regard, are a solipsistic.


If anything, what I hope this post is going to convey is that you need faith, but you also have to think using your common sense to discern "how" to place that faith. This is the kind of thing I'm going through right now looking through the Nag Hammadi stuff. And it can be challenging! But you can't get there by pretending to take the steps.

Nice try! :)
how does one gain that faith?



You tell me. How does it fit? I'm sure you're dying to!

...no really i wanted "ur" take... lol
peace

[1 flew over]

I may be jumping into the deep end without my little floaties but why not.

One of the crossover or bridges between thought and beliefs is whether someone is perceiving through their heart or their intellect, two very different inputs, two very different results. Westerners and more specifically North Americans are very cerebral entities. Many other cultures perceive with their hearts and have a better "feel" or belief. Just a thought.

I heard a guy on TED mention that the American and British see their bodies as a way to get there minds to meetings. I was taught to never have emotions or feelings. I was supposed to just think about it.

Be Well
1 Flew Over

[Milneman]

Ok bud! Let me try and unravel the spaghetti mess in my head. ;)

Starting with...."how does one gain that faith?"

Well as a rationalist in this regard, I believe that it comes in a great part from innate ideas that I have, that we all have, within us from birth. Sense experience plays a roll in all of this, but it's not the only way. So I guess if I had to put a number on it I'd say I"m about 80% rationalist, 20% empiricist...but on some things I have greater rational belief than others.

So the faith isn't something you gain per say...it's something that pre-exists and works in conjunction with your reason to create a perception. Which is how you came to the reasonable assumption about Calamus' post. But it was still an assumption. And it still had a chance of being incorrect.

But!

So is every scientific law!

You, my friend, are another mind that I enjoy interacting with. Thank you!!

[thunder24]

Ok bud! Let me try and unravel the spaghetti mess in my head. ;)

Starting with...."how does one gain that faith?"

Well as a rationalist in this regard, I believe that it comes in a great part from innate ideas that I have, that we all have, within us from birth. Sense experience plays a roll in all of this, but it's not the only way. So I guess if I had to put a number on it I'd say I"m about 80% rationalist, 20% empiricist...but on some things I have greater rational belief than others.

So the faith isn't something you gain per say...it's something that pre-exists and works in conjunction with your reason to create a perception. Which is how you came to the reasonable assumption about Calamus' post. But it was still an assumption. And it still had a chance of being incorrect.

But!

So is every scientific law!

You, my friend, are another mind that I enjoy interacting with. Thank you!!
I love spaghetti!!!

How does faith pre-exist? what does faith have to do with me and Calamuses post? imo it just is.... like radio waves mixed with rational thought.... idk...kinda thinking outloud on that one...

past mixing with future in the present to create the now...

peace

[Milneman]

thunder, you read anything by either Dr. Ronald Nash or, even better, Dr. Alvin Plantinga?

[thunder24]

thunder, you read anything by either Dr. Ronald Nash or, even better, Dr. Alvin Plantinga?

not that i am aware of...

[Milneman]

thunder, you read anything by either Dr. Ronald Nash or, even better, Dr. Alvin Plantinga?

not that i am aware of...

Awesome chatting with you tonight. :)

[Milneman]

---edit---

I had originally posted a video from this group with their objectives and views in the interest of bringing awareness about them to the Avalon forum.

In doing this, I realized that what I was doing would actually create more problems than be helpful.

I guess what I'm saying is...sometimes it's smarter to keep your mouth shut....but I smell a rat. Just saying.

[thunder24]

might as well post it.... i love smoked rat

[Rocky_Shorz]

ewww, you're a sick lil pup...

but Shrek and Fiona considered them a delicacy, so why am I to judge, loved em both...

[thunder24]

you prefer live rats....? lol

[Rocky_Shorz]

dude I shot a rat at a garbage dump once, its friends gathered, lifted him/her and carried it like a ceremony on their shoulders back home...

then they ate the bastard...

fracking politicians are the same...

[thunder24]

Like I said...lol... I love smoked RAT....:smokin: heck shot rat/smoked rat...whats the difference....LOL
aren't you supposed to put flame to a tic to kill it...?

politics= poly=many tics=blood sucking creatures

dude I shot a rat at a garbage dump once, its friends gathered, lifted him/her and carried it like a ceremony on their shoulders back home...

then they ate the bastard...

fracking politicians are the same...

[Milneman]

You guys are sick. I love it.


I'm posting this in the interest of my friends here, people I've only known a little while but really do care a lot about, knowing the complete truth about something that's relevant right now on Avalon.

I'm serious here. I know this thread has gone kind of off topic, and kind of crazy goofy, and I love that. I felt alone until a few weeks ago, and the people here have made me feel not just welcome, but that what happened to me isn't isolated, so I'm not isolated.

I am really anxious about the backlash posting this video may create for myself. The thing is? This place to me is really important. When I see things that make me worried for people who post here frequently, people I care about, I feel like I have to say something. I started this thread to see the reaction, to see if I was alone in how I felt. However...as the title of the thread says, you decide.

LD8xDnDb1Go

I sincerely feel this group, as described by their own video, is heading for disaster, and I feel that supporting it will only make that disaster more significant.

When I see people backing it up, something inside me screams this is wrong. And I can't sit back! I can't fully explain why. Except my instincts say...this isn't right.

You decide.

If I've ended up causing more harm than good...well, you learn by making mistakes I guess.