Bitcoin passes $1000 mark // Keiser Report: Bitcoin is Beautiful (E526)

[Cidersomerset]

I must admit I do not really understand, if it is not backed & if there is a run on
selling and the value drops, is it first in wins , last out loses....The first vid explains
that its an alternate to fiat money, especially if you have a lot of money anyway
and instead of paying tax on it you can hide it on a virtual exchange. I don't see
how it will benefit the 99% of savers ? Then again interests rates are negligible on
savings, so its something for speculators, business's etc, although cutting out the
bankster middlemen is appealing . But until Bitcoin gives out loans for Mortgages
etc, how does in run an overall economy ? Obviously the established elites are tied
into gold and commodities, again a 1% concern. It becomes our concern when it
effects economies, running the national finances.

There have been alternate systems, Bristol introduced the 'Brisol pound'
last year to be used by local tradesman, http://bristolpound.org/
and there is no reason different exchange mechanisms can be set up like arms for
oil in the past etc. I can see this used similar to local currencies and I suppose it
will take off if the corporates take it on and someone opens a Bitcoin style
commercial Bank.

Of course the present system has always been open to abuse for the past 200
years by the manipulation of markets, insider dealing and the heating up and
collapsing of economies using the 'economic cycle' and Bank runs, so a new
system is needed or properly honestly regulated. But since the elites still own
everything its like the fox guarding the hen coup.

So it woud be nice for ethical banks to open up , but even they can be undermined
as was seen last week with the Co op bank fiasco.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bitcoin passes $1000 mark


podJU_FSs-0

Published on 27 Nov 2013


It's Bitcoin's big day! The digital 'crypto-currency' has passed the $1,000 mark for the
first time in history, marking a growth of some 4,000% since the beginning of the year.
The milestone was recorded by Tokyo-based Mt Gox bitcoin exchange.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keiser Report: Bitcoin is Beautiful

V8_HT8zfc78

Published on 21 Nov 2013


In this episode of the Keiser Report, Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert discuss bitcoin
barbarians at the gate as U.S. cedes dominance to China and as nations and people
around the world reject U.S. made technology due to NSA spying. In the second half,
Max interviews Karl Gray and Austin Craig about the documentary film, Life On Bitcoin,
and about the latest in crypto-currencies, including Litecoin.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Bitcoin only has value because people have agreed that it does. Just like money. But as there will only ever be 21 million bitcoins, it should not devalue in the way that fiat currency does when banks print as much as they need. I have some bitcoins and obviously I am a happy bunny right now but realise that if this is a bubble, it could burst. Nobody knows what will happen.

[Violet]

It was on Belgian news today too.

So, is this then the new global currency that various conspiracy theories predicted?

[Cidersomerset]

Bitcoin only has value because people have agreed that it does. Just like money. But as there will only ever be 21 million bitcoins, it should not devalue in the way that fiat currency does when banks print as much as they need. I have some bitcoins and obviously I am a happy bunny right now but realise that if this is a bubble, it could burst. Nobody knows what will happen.

That's what I thought , but there seems a lot of hype about it taking over, and that did not seem plausible in its present form. I've been
Listening to Bob Nevritt's radiothon this week still live on air now but coming to an end tonight. Ion came on a few times and someone
asked the question about Bitcoin , his answer was simply sell. probably because they have hit this high ?
But I would only say you have gone into this...Eyes Wide Open...LOL...So you know the score.

[Cidersomerset]

It was on Belgian news today too.

So, is this then the new global currency that various conspiracy theories predicted?

Not sure violet, Eyes wide opens answer suggest no, and I would have thought it would have to
expand massively to do so.Its strength is in its limits, but all pyramid schemes expands by
bringing in new customers at the bottom to pay those at the top. Like in all corporate and
other structures. The debate is. Is this a pyramid scheme or not ? If a lot of people sell
there Bitcoins at this high value, what happens next, who buys them? They say people
in China ,India and other people with cash are looking for alternate places to put it.But
they will be buying at the higher rate, unless it collapses ? I'm not sure how this will play out,

[Violet]

I don't think that at this point any great number of people should like to see this system fall down (already). It's a new dream and hope for many who've invested in it, so they will try to keep it alive as long as possible.

[sian]

Cliff High's take on Bitcom 24/11/2013

QmDKvoGCEYo

found here:- post # 7586 http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?3596-Up-At-The-Ranch-And-Beyond/page380

[Positive Vibe Merchant]

the thing is that since there is a limited supply those with other resources, ie money to purchase bitcoins, could stockpile them and hold on to them for their value.

replacement slavery.

[seehas]

i think the whole bitcoin phenomenon is beeing used as a rollmodell and to get people interested and used in a "non-paper-currency", it will be realy intersting to see how it will develop.

the bitcoin-trend was beeing promoted in the media by "them" and its legal in most countrys, also there are agendas to make it look good (like bankomats etc.), if something is supported by the mass-media like this, it has to be in "their" will.

since i sadly dont own any bitcoin im allowed to make the conclusion that the bitcoin will stay pretty stable because people need to gain trust into this new way currency :cool:

a currency change away from fiat-money is a important step, for a planet evolving into a one-world-goverment.

[indigopete]

Folks - steady on. First of all, Bitcoin is NOT a Pyramid scheme. Its price against other forms of currency is governed by mechanism's of supply and demand - just as the price of cauliflowers is.

A pyramid scheme one where early entrants continue to receive cumulative payments from late entrants, so as more people join, those that got in early accumulate increasing amounts of cash. On the other hand, a person who bought 1 bitcoin 3 years ago at a price of 60 cents, still has only 1 bitcoin today, even though millions more people have now bought them. So that right there puts the 'pyramid scheme' nonsense to bed. 1 bitcoin then, 1 bitcoin now. If it was a pyramid scheme they'd accumulated thousands of bitcoins by now.

The fact that Bitcoins are more expensive now than then is simply due to it's *valuation*. You could equally say that the dollar has collapsed in value against Bitcoin (which is how I look at it) as Bitcoin gaining in price.

Another thing. People need to get their heads around the difference between *base money* and *credit money*. One of the reasons that BTC's value is soaring is that it's starting to dawn on people that Bitcoin is *base money*. In simple terms, here's the difference:

You are a plumber and I need a job done. You agree to take my bike as payment, however, you don't need the bike at the moment, and don't have anywhere to store it, so you accept an IOU for the bike instead.

At step one, we agreed on the 'base money' for the transaction. At step 2, I created some 'credit money' and used it in the exchange instead, while keeping the bike. Note that the 'credit money' in this deal was created on a 1 to 1 reserve ratio basis for the bike - i.e. I only wrote 1 IOU out for 1 bike. Note these points:

[1] - the bike forms the 'base money' for the deal. i.e. there is nothing 'backing' it except an agreed basis of value (just as there is nothing 'backing' gold which has been used as base money in the past)

[2] - the credit money you received was much 'handier', so you accepted that instead

What we need to realise is that what we have in our bank accounts is 'credit money', not base money. That's why it's so easy to move around - it's just a bunch of numbers.

The massive innovation that cryptocurrencies have introduced is that they are *base money* which is also transmittable over an electronic network. We are not transmitting numbers, we are actually transmitting the base asset.

The implications of this are immense and in my opinion, cryptocurrencies will go down in history along with the telephone and penicillin as one of the greatest discoveries ever made. (Actually public-private key cryptology is, on which cryptocurrencies as based - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-key_cryptography ).

If you're trying to get your head around the fact that something so apparently subtle can be endowed with such value, don't bother. Gold has very little industrial use and is too heavy to carry around. Without its own "tulip mania", it doesn't have much going for it other than its sheer dogged resistance to counterfeiting and fairly limited supply.

Cryptocurrencies are a massive advance on this because they combine the integrity of base money with the versatility of credit money. It's my opinion that the value is going to start to drain right out of precious metals now that they've basically been rendered obsolete, but that's for another day.

Meanwhile, as far as the price against the dollar is concerned, this is just the start. Cryptocurrency prices against legacy currencies will not collapse. They will continue to rise until their market capitalisation reflects their new role in electronic trading, so as far as Bitcoin is concerned, that means at least in the 6-figure and possibly 7-figure range (per coin) even if it only sees 5% of the currency exchange market, never mind retail.

Interesting times ahead are assured - not least for the legacy "fiat" currencies that are already their last legs thanks to central bankers and their printing presses ! :)

[Positive Vibe Merchant]

3 words
recourse based economy.

[Cidersomerset]

Thanks indigopete a good explanation. IF the person who bought one at .60 is now
worth $1000 so it has increased in value by $999.40 cents.and I bought one for
$1000 ,the money put into the 21 million Bitcoin pot has increased. So if the person
sold his .60cents Bitcoin & sold it outside he would make the $999.40 cents profit.
So the ratio of money is only the equivalent bought and sold up to the fluctuating
exchange rate of the 21 million.If you buy and sell within the bitcoin exchange the
rate of exchange would stay the same, but who knows how many Bitcoins to pay
the plumber or other tradesman in the system. I presume they measure it against
there existing countries currency.

I know you can give a bike or something for a security, but it still feels strange.
How do you pay council tax, water Bills ,gas, electric, Tele licence, insurance,
phone, groceries, petrol and a pint down the pub. It still seems a long way off yet,
and seems a closer step to having a chip in your finger. As you say they probably
said that when the car replaced the horse.

I can understand it more from a business sense as most currency is virtual
already, existing in computer transaction, so its missing out the middle man
like buying and selling whole sale . Maybe I'm still used to handling cash, even
so some of my bills are payed by direct debit and my wages are paid straight
into the bank. So it is just watching it play out and people may start to have
confidence in it.

[Cidersomerset]

Cliff High's take on Bitcom 24/11/2013



Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmDKvoGCEYo



found here:- post # 7586 http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...Beyond/page380

Thanks sian that was helpful, more coherent than Max...LOL
It cannot be hijacked by the elite without bidding up the
price and adding to the value of the pot.

I presume they get around it by setting up a similar system
and getting in first like the Rothchilds did originally in our
current system. It seems it cannot get to big, other wise it
just becomes part of the existing system.

you have just got to go to the current crimenal'abused system
that the multi Trillion debt currently floating around has mainly
accumulated on paying the interest on interest to the 'Banksters'
and elites or China, that is explained by NESARA, as explained by
Bob & Ion.

It does seem just like a bubble in the financial high seas at the
moment, But like people who dabble in shares or buy kugerands
its something some people may have a go at.

Cliff says after it reaches $911 the elites will panic....So they
are panicking ..LOL....I hope so, but they will then start
thinking of a another scam to fleece us like Gores Green
Tax .


http://www.thebitcoinchannel.com/

[Cidersomerset]

A mugger would use a knife or gun to steal your wallet.
The professional thief will fleece your bank account and
Banksters have been doing this in the west for 200 years.

w4HGVJjqDVk

Published on 27 Sep 2013


Stefan Molyneux looks at the rise of Bitcoin and discusses its history, mining, fees,
altcoins, regulatory hypocrisy, worldwide awareness, comparisons to gold,
anonymous transactions, possible government attacks and what the future holds
for the decentralized cryptocurrency.

Bitcoin Address: 1Fd8RuZqJNG4v56rPD1v6rgYptwnHeJRWs
Litecoin Address: LL76SbNek3dT8bv2APZNhWgNv3nHEzAgKT

0:00 How the ruling class controls human livestock.
1:35 How Bitcoin works
8:47 What is money? Is Bitcoin money? (come on, what do you *think* the answer is? :) )
15:04 Demographics
19:47 Why Bitcoin is better than predecessors
26:54 History (skip here to hear him say "Satoshi" funny)
28:50 Purchasing power of government-issued money going down
40:03 Bitcoin's future popularity
42:15 Big Banks and Big Government hate Bitcoin!
45:00 Not anonymous by default but can be if you want it

A very special thanks to Kristov Atlas, author of the upcoming comprehensive guide
to bitcoin anonymity, for his assistance with this presentation. Get the latest
updates on his book at: http://www.anonymousbitcoinbook.com

This video is for information and illustrative purposes only and is not, and should
not be regarded as investment advice or as a recommendation regarding any
particular security or course of action.

Freedomain Radio is 100% funded by viewers like you. Please support the show by
signing up for a monthly subscription or making a one time donation at:
http://www.fdrurl.com/donate

Get more from Stefan Molyneux and Freedomain Radio including books, podcasts and other info at: http://www.freedomainradio.com

[Anchor]

Bitcoin is in its early stages. Having a high value makes it worth mining. A lot of people stopped mining because it was too expensive to keep up with the hardware and electricity needed to do all the calculations. Now people can fire up their server farms again

[ThePythonicCow]

Folks - steady on. First of all, Bitcoin is NOT a Pyramid scheme. Its price against other forms of currency is governed by mechanism's of supply and demand - just as the price of cauliflowers is.

A pyramid scheme one where early entrants continue to receive cumulative payments from late entrants, so as more people join, those that got in early accumulate increasing amounts of cash. On the other hand, a person who bought 1 bitcoin 3 years ago at a price of 60 cents, still has only 1 bitcoin today, even though millions more people have now bought them. So that right there puts the 'pyramid scheme' nonsense to bed. 1 bitcoin then, 1 bitcoin now. If it was a pyramid scheme they'd accumulated thousands of bitcoins by now.

... just as the price of tulips in Holland in 1637 :) ?

One can claim that most any saleable item's price is simply governed by the mechanism's of supply and demand ... but perhaps the more interesting question is whether a dramatic price increase is mostly caused by speculators hoping to get rich off other speculators arriving later to the party, or caused by a genuine increase in the utility of the item.

Would you say that the increase in the valuation of a bitcoin from 60 cents to 1000 dollars is mostly due to their near frictionless utility as a means of payment, or mostly due to speculators? I would say beyond any doubt the latter. Perhaps bitcoins have some future potential as a nearly frictionless and wide spread means of payment (or as a unit of accounting or as a stable means of long term wealth storage) ... but that's not the primary reason that people are currently buying them.

[ThePythonicCow]

Here's a good article, comparing bitcoins and tulips, from As Bitcoin approaches $1,000 are investors suffering from tulip mania? (City A.M.) (http://www.cityam.com/blog/1385548700/bitcoin-approaches-1000-are-investors-suffering-tulip-mania):



Comparisons between the dramatic ascent of Bitcoin and the tulip bulb mania that gripped 17th century Europe aren't new. They were made by UBS' Art Cashin before the currency popped in April.

It did - dropping from $220 to less than $80. Fans of the cryptocurrency would always tell you that this time things are different - that Bitcoin is the shape of things to come. Now the price of Bitcoin is back up, and approaching $1,000.

Much of their case is convincing. Digital currencies have some strong advantages over those controlled by governments, and even if Bitcoin doesn't last other alternatives are already emerging.

But it's hard to disagree that the charts below are eerily alike, showing the similarly meteoric rise of tulip bulb prices in the 1600s and the alternative currency. Tulips too appear to have seen a small correction before the bubble burst in a dramatic fashion.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BaDJ8yPCAAAnfET.jpg
It's a fallacy to argue that either tulips or Bitcoin have intrinsic value - value is subjective, not innate - but they certainly both have qualities that many desire.

When tulips were introduced they were a novelty, not seen before and prized for their beauty. Bitcoin has very different qualities, bringing advantages over traditional means of exchange - it can't be taxed, it's easily moved across borders without high transfer fees, and there's no central bank which could devalue the currency.

We may be seeing a boom in Bitcoin - but don't be tricked. Subjective value never becomes detached from a "true" objective worth. No such thing exists. But when people reassess what they consider a commodity to be worth, prices can crash.

As Bitcoin appears to be climbing towards the psychologically significant $1,000 level for the first time - it's worth remembering that one tulip bulb was traded for 12 acres of prime Dutch farm land during the height of the mania.

Even if Bitcoin's price does crash back down to earth its qualities will remain precious to many - just like the beauty of the tulip. The price of Bitcoin may be wrong, but a currency free of state manipulation will always have fans.

======

Personally, I am inclined to agree with Wolf Richter's speculation here (""):



But the recent volatility could also lead to the death of bitcoins. Wolf Richter amusingly speculates on the Naked Capitalism blog that the US authorities may be encouraging the volatility as a way of killing the virtual currency without getting their hands dirty by banning bitcoins.
This present volatility is killing bitcoin's acceptance as a currency, and the volatility was rather clearly spiked by positive remarks from the US Congress and the Federal Reserve in recent weeks.

[Rocky_Shorz]

It was on Belgian news today too.

So, is this then the new global currency that various conspiracy theories predicted?

it was first pushed by Anonymous during Occupy Wall Street...

no way for big bankers to block transactions, isn't "owned" like paypal...

[bogeyman]

When will the financial establishment muscle in on the bit coin I wonder?

[RMorgan]

This present volatility is killing bitcoin's acceptance as a currency, and the volatility was rather clearly spiked by positive remarks from the US Congress and the Federal Reserve in recent weeks.

That's really the killer factor regarding using it as currency, indeed...It generates a lot of insecurity from both sides of the market.

The buyer point of view: Should I buy "x" using bitcoins today, knowing that possibly I could buy "10x" with the same amount next month?

The seller point of view: Should I sell "x" for an "y" amount of bitcoins, knowing that next month "y" could be worth 1/3 of its current value?

There's no way to realistically use bitcoin as currency the way it is. Currencies should at least be reasonably stable. Stable currencies inspire confidence, unstable currencies don't; That's how it works.

The biggest disadvantage of bitcoins being unregulated is that they can grow completely out of control to the point of becoming useless as currency, and if they become useless as currency, they become crypto-nothing instead of crypto-currency.

Honestly, I don't thing bitcoins are going to stick long term...Maybe the next-gen crypto-currencies could work, though.

[Anchor]

Honestly, I don't thing bitcoins are going to stick long term...Maybe the next-gen crypto-currencies could work, though.

Why would any other crypto currency be any different.

One of the reasons that bitcoins value is increasing in USD terms is that it is being measured against a currency which is weakening all the time as more of it is printed.

With Bitcoin the printing press is a controlled function.

[RMorgan]

Honestly, I don't thing bitcoins are going to stick long term...Maybe the next-gen crypto-currencies could work, though.

Why would any other crypto currency be any different.

One of the reasons that bitcoins value is increasing in USD terms is that it is being measured against a currency which is weakening all the time as more of it is printed.

With Bitcoin the printing press is a controlled function.

I don't think this is accurate.

There's no way to compare the USD devaluation with the bit Bitcoin boom...If you compare ratios, the USD devaluation is negligible compared to Bitcoin's growth.

Anyway, if you don't want to compare it to the USD, compare it to any other relatively stable currency, like the BRL, EUR or CNY.

The biggest current reason the bitcoin value is increasing is simply a supply demand thing...Too many people wanting to buy, too few people wanting to sell + ever increasing mining difficulty.

People are buying and holding it, instead of using it. Honestly, whoever was behind the bitcoin project, I'm not sure if he/she/it/they were counting on so much speculation.

If someone can find a way to prevent that much speculation from happening again, then other future crypto-currencies may have more success, commercially speaking.

[Cidersomerset]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BaDJ8yPCAAAnfET.jpg

It's a fallacy to argue that either tulips or Bitcoin have intrinsic value - value is subjective, not innate - but they certainly both have qualities that many desire.

Yes Paul that is 'eerie'....

[Belle]

How safe is your bitcoin? Not so much...

Interesting article at http://www.informationweek.com/security/attacks-and-breaches/bitcoin-thefts-surge-ddos-hackers-take-millions/d/d-id/1112831 entitled, "Bitcoin Thefts Surge, DDoS Hackers Take Millions"

Currency is still just currency...whether fiat dollars (pieces of paper that are distinguished only by the denomination placed on it that makes one piece of paper more valuable than another piece of paper) or bitcoins (digital currency that can disappear if the grid goes down permanently or your computer is hacked). They have no value whatsoever in themselves...only the value we place on it.

Gold and silver hold value, no matter what the currency may be doing at any time...but cannot be eaten.

When everything else is wiped away, all that is left is your skills and knowledge.

[rgray222]

When will the financial establishment muscle in on the bit coin I wonder?

Bitcoin is the establishment, there is only one group that wants to see a worldwide currency and those are the people that control our financial institutions. The only way to exercise full economic and financial control is to push for one world currency. Bitcoin amounts to sticking their big toe in the water!