All the things we think are true...

[Chester]

All the things we think are true are simply our own creations.

Our genetic entity carries through relative truths (thus impermanent if we so desire) that reside deep within our subconscious. But just like all things of form, these subconscious elements - like what Jung called the archetypes (and a word that is eerily similar to "Archons") are illusions.

Perhaps in the above words resides a clue towards developing a solution to humanity's ongoing and repeating dramas... the dramas we constantly complain about.

[Eram]

All the things?

[Violet]

This reminds me of some unknown theory that states that every thought thought starts leading its own life in some dimension, in that respect it is true in its existence in that dimension.

[Chester]

All the things?

My point of view when I made the above post was coming from the "me prior to me being."

[Mark]

pov is important. it gets confusing when one is talking from the higher, impersonal perspective, to those who are interpreting from the lower, personal perspective. this comes into play to the detriment of the discussion, as to claim illusion when stubbing one's toe on a rock feels very real indeed. this is implicit also in your original statement, that all is a creation of our minds. who, in this case, is our? us, collectively, as humanity? or us, collectively, as consciousness, i.e. the mind of god?

[Eram]

All the things?

My point of view when I made the above post was coming from the "me prior to me being."

Hey Justoneman,

I'm still not really sure what you meant, sorry :)

But when I take Rakhyts post into account, I'll assume that you talk about the assumption that everything is an illusion... ?
forms as well as subconscious elements you said.

am I correct?

You mentioned the term gnostics a few times over the last year and I'm interested to know what books you have read on that subject, since all I know about gnosticism is that it was once a secret knowledge order were esoterics where thought to initiates that were hand picked by the man or woman that started the order (always a person who made it to the next level of existence and now incarnated to teach humanity).
Later Gnosticism became quasi Gnosticism when people started their own branches and and essential information got distorted.

I am currently reading books from T.laurency which are supposed to contain the original esoteric's that were thought in the secret knowledge schools and are now becoming exoteric (no longer secret).

In these books it says that reality has three major components ans those are: matter, motion and consciousness.
Not one of them can exist without any of the other two and when you take some time to reflect on this, it becomes almost impossible to deny this.
At least.... I can't ;)

If this is true, then it would mean that form is part of reality and just as consciousness is.... and motion (all matter is in motion and consciousness is always changing).

Further it goes to say that man has five bodies at his disposal when incarnated.

the physical body
the etheric body
the emotional body
the mental body
the causal body


Now when you talk about subconscious elements that are illusory, it would seem to me that these are emotions and ideas about reality that live in the emotional and mental body.
it is said in the books that all emotions and the ideas that live in the lower part of the mental planes are fantasies and factitious by nature and I'm not really sure about the ideas from the higher mental planes (have to look it up soon).

Anyway, this is my current understanding about reality.

Would like to hear what you think about it :)

[Chester]

All the things?

My point of view when I made the above post was coming from the "me prior to me being."

Hey Justoneman,

I'm still not really sure what you meant, sorry :)

But when I take Rakhyts post into account, I'll assume that you talk about the assumption that everything is an illusion... ?
forms as well as subconscious elements you said.

am I correct?


WoW! Lots in your post - will respond just to this first part. Rahkyt stated it well and so there's not much I can add but will share a bit about my experience that has led me to "me" as I am lately. This "me" lately seems to be anchored by this... "no me" which seems to be a place of bliss, a place that is no place, a still place, a place where I see things arising in my awareness and yet where my mind does not engage what I am observing. It is not disconnected but is not affected. It feels like "me prior to me" (which is us, which is all... all beings, all form, all concepts)... seems Buddhists call this "emptiness."

In the past, I would "go" to this place... in meditation for example. Then... I started to notice (which when I did, I found noticing caused me to leave this place)... but I started to notice I was anchored into this place... I seemed to be there more often when i would awaken out of it (when my egoic mind would begin its lovely "thinking" crap).

And more and more nowadays I simply seem to be in this place almost all the time. I have to leave this place to write this post though in a sense it seems like what pours out comes pretty much from this place with noticeably less distortion.

This place is no place - it is stillness, it is always now in this place, what arises simply arises and though I am remotely aware of what arises, there's no attachment to it (and thus it does not effect me)... I simply find myself watching - zero emotional disturbance... peaceful, quiet, always now - no mind "chattering."

There... above is a river of words... perhaps from the place next to this place.

[Milneman]

Couple of questions, mainly for my clarification. :)

What is the difference between a truth that exists ontologically, or innately, and a truth that we take to be true because it suites our particular need? Isn't the second truth in a way a lie? (As I typed that, I realized we are probably on the same track lol)

Second, what do you mean by the term "genetic entity"...and why did you decide to use this particular term?

[Chester]

Couple of questions, mainly for my clarification. :)

What is the difference between a truth that exists ontologically, or innately, and a truth that we take to be true because it suites our particular need? Isn't the second truth in a way a lie? (As I typed that, I realized we are probably on the same track lol)

Second, what do you mean by the term "genetic entity"...and why did you decide to use this particular term?

Everything that can be discussed appears to be a relative truth... because we are using words and concepts. All these things require a point of view yet from the formless looking out into further formless, there's no contrast... so then how can one say any one "thing" - which is a sub component of the realm of form in the illusory realm of form is true? When we say something is true, that always implies a domain and a point of view within the domain.

I found a place where it all melts into what some Eastern traditions call, "one taste." Then when I let that go, I find the only place that seems actually real - that place which is no place, which is always now and where anything that arises never "registers" and thus never seems to awaken that "mind" that has to then weigh it, measure it, decide if it is true, consider if its good, consider if its bad...

Thanks to greybeard continually posting Eckhart Tolle videos... it all seems to have clicked in.

I wonder to myself why then even post about it? Why "push" these ideas upon anyone? Fortunately, conscious intention seems to have... gone away for the most part.

I just did this (Like Forest Gump said) "Cause I felt like it?"

Its just fun.

Genetic Entity - I believe this term was made popular by L. Ron Hubbard. Amzer Zo is who I credit for (finally) opening my mind to what that could be.

Then one day I saw these things -

I saw "me" Chester who was born 56 years ago and one day will die.

I saw "me" - the genetics that "me" Chester received and happened to give to three sons. I then "saw" in a way I never saw before when considering genetics through what I "learned" via "education"... I saw this "thing" to also be an "entity."

I then saw a "me" - a spirit. A spirit that somehow decided to (or perhaps allowed myself to be tricked into) shifting my point of view from being this spirit to being anchored into the genetic entity which in turn allowed me to either decide to (or be tricked into) seeing myself as simply a single lifetime. I have a feeling this is what one learns when one studies the materials of L. Ron Hubbard, but perhaps others have shared this same possible "story."

Yet behind these all is the ACTUAL "me" which is no me at all as it is not of form.

Words never do this justice, but since I must use words I will say that that ACTUAL me is simple "me," unmanifest. It is eternal, it is prior to form, it is of no time yet always now. I like to believe we are all "this." That we somehow tricked ourselves into forgetting this. Perhaps life would not be what it is if we fully know this from birth... Uh oh... I sense that pesky mind thing has awakened again... YUCK! Adios

[Chester]

You mentioned the term gnostics a few times over the last year and I'm interested to know what books you have read on that subject, since all I know about gnosticism is that it was once a secret knowledge order were esoterics where thought to initiates that were hand picked by the man or woman that started the order (always a person who made it to the next level of existence and now incarnated to teach humanity).
Later Gnosticism became quasi Gnosticism when people started their own branches and and essential information got distorted.

I read Elaine Pagels' book The Gnostic Gospels back in around 1995.

I then went and bought a copy of what had been translated up to that time called the Nag Hammadi Library.

I then began to trust my own "direct connection" and allowed it to communicate with me. What I also did was to allow the Archons to influence my thinking (which I did not know I was doing). In my opinion, what allowed the Archons to have such influence over my thoughts was that I began (after 7 years of pure sobriety) to drink alcohol... then started marijuana again and then finally, started up my coke habit again. This led to massive misinterpretations and without adding details (which you may have read over in Horus-Ra) led to a "book of Job" event in 2001.

I still did not "get it" and so continued to dabble and then once again become addicted to booze and coke. I dropped those two in 2010 but picked back up the weed. When I did, I went into an instant state of hyper-quantum-synchronicity (and pure ecstasy and bliss). I began to communicate with "the Universe." Unfortuantely, the Archons were a part of this complex that lay deep within my subconscious. I thought the voices (that accompanied the amazing experiences) were "the Voice of God." Then one day the voice told me I had to kill myself to save the world. I tried twice but failed. I then went into a deep depression filled with utter, constant despair because I could not kill myself. This may be what some Gnostics call "dying of the self." It may also be what is referred to as "the dark night of the soul."

I then began to participate here on Avalon. On April 26th, 2012 I discovered Houman's thread. That day, the depression went instantly and completely away. I discovered the piece to the puzzle that explained all I had experienced since I was 6 years old.

Over the last year and a half I have realized what those voices were, cleaned myself up and met the "real me" (which I cannot speak about properly with words). I now realize the "good and bad" (organic life and inorganic life such as the Archon) exist within me. From that realization I assumed that if this is all within me, I have responsibility of it all (I am speaking only about my own experience and actions). I then decided what I want to experience in my life (and what I don't) and have "stepped aside" (meaning my ego... as much as I can allow it) and found myself left with the most direct form of "connection" with the all that is that I have ever experienced.

I also recommend the book - The Master Game by Graham Hancock and Robert Bauval which has a good bit of information about the Cathars who I believe were the last true Gnostics other than what we may have among us now.

A Gnostic is anyone who has established that direct connect in a bona fide way. I have no answers for you or anyone else. I can only share my experience as to how I "got here." From what i shared above, I do not recommend to anyone they emulate my path. How I am still alive can't be explained, if you only knew.

[Delight]

This is a super thread.

I feel anchored Too

justoneman said


WoW! Lots in your post - will respond just to this first part. Rahkyt stated it well and so there's not much I can add but will share a bit about my experience that has led me to "me" as I am lately. This "me" lately seems to be anchored by this... "no me" which seems to be a place of bliss, a place that is no place, a still place, a place where I see things arising in my awareness and yet where my mind does not engage what I am observing. It is not disconnected but is not affected. It feels like "me prior to me" (which is us, which is all... all beings, all form, all concepts)... seems Buddhists call this "emptiness."

raykht asked where are we achored? Seriously, I feel it is the God self that is the next proximate connection. It feels like a very personal working relationship. It does not feel synthetic. It seems to be behind the door to everything and we are standing in the threshold.

this event unfolding is cosmic consciousness and the pwoer of the universe in us acting through our free will IMO.

[Chester]

Yes... up until recently, I felt I was anchored into this body. Each morning i would "wake up" in it.

Now, when I am in this so called "waking state," I actually see it as "waking down" in the morning... not waking up.

The point of view has shifted... but that point of view only exists when I "think about it." Its all madness within my own mind and so I simply let it go now... or... like when writing here... I just "let go."

EDIT: and then I sometimes come back to "edit" my mistakes... haha.

[Mark]

It's always good to hear these tales. I've read many of your posts over the time we've been at PA but your continuing movement is always a treat to bear witness to. Thank you for sharing your experience Chester.

In all that is occurring in the world to elicit fear and loathing, this path, this journey beyond, within, without, forward, backward, up, down, every permutation of potentiality possible, remains the Truth.

All else is distraction and, therefore, Illusion.

[Milneman]

I'm different I guess. Which isn't a bad thing. :)

I have difficulty with skepticism. Primarily because it's self refuting. I see a lot of skepticism in this.

Here's an example of the problem with relative truth. It's self referentially absurd. We are relative to truths that exist, that are not relative. Circles are not relative. They are circles. You can't make a square circle. We all know certain things are right, and certain things are wrong. We change our beliefs to fit the difficulty we have with each specific truth. It's called bending the truth, or living a lie that's prefered over living in accordance with truth.

Which isn't to say that's what I'm saying your doing. I like you! But I disagree with you. :)

Relativity in this sense you describe only leads to this: significant thought is impossible, significant speech is impossible, and significant actions are impossible. Why? Because nothing can ever possibly have meaning. And that's the problem. Words do have meanings. Words have very clear and distinct meanings. Actions have very clear and distinct meanings, and yes! Our thoughts have very clear and distinct meanings.

By this definition, there's no difference between walking to the store and walking off a cliff. Because the definitions are relative.

I can't believe you believe that. If you do, nothing of what you said has any meaning...and that can't be possible (even if it is fun!) :)

And yet...there's something about what you're saying, if I read between the lines, that comes full circle to where I started from and makes sense. In other words, and boy is this scary in some ways and exciting in others, there's a seed of truth that exists in every person, in every being. And I think it's the seed in me that relates to the seed in you.

I'm still working through the gnostic stuff. Quite interestingly, I've not yet to find anything significant in gnosticism that isn't compatible with mere Christianity..except it smells very strongly of Platonism. And to note: I believe a portion of "The Republic" was found the the Nag Hammadi texts was it not?

Does that mean I can't jive with Gnosticism? Well...only as far as I can jive with Platonism. There's synthesis, and then there's synthetic. I need time to keep studying this.

At the very least? This has helped you find sobriety bro. As one who is a very difficult 20 years clean, congrats. Even if I can't agree philosophically, I can sure as hell support you if it keeps you sober.

*highfive*

[TraineeHuman]

Congratulations, Chester. You've been through a great deal of suffering, and it sounds like you learnt from it, and learnt how to end it.

May I ask whether you've been getting yourself grounded most of the time while you're experiencing the transcendental joy? For me that's important, though it may not be important in your case, I guess. There's a kind of "food chain". That incredible, I take it seemingly infinite joy is near the top of that food chain. I consider it's close to the very essence of what everything, at any level of existence, is made of. My version of that chain, from bottom to top, goes something like this. Each higher level includes and adds to and refines the levels below:

Unconsciousness, and the drive to survive
Effort
Desire
Love/affection of a possessive kind
Insight / understanding / Higher will (to be with Truth)
Non-separative consciousness
Delight / bliss / peace-filled joy
Total integration and total surrender to the Divine.

As far as I understand, the ego tries to pull us back down the chain. Particularly to the four lowest levels. I find that when one is grounded there's a connection of presumably all the levels of the chain. And that seems to make the higher levels become closer and closer to permanent -- in my experience.

Strange, isn't it? Through undergoing the seemingly never-ending limitations of existence in our present form we can learn to truly appreciate the value of the opposite of limitation. In this world we're so estranged from Oneness that we can get utterly unique insights about Oneness.

[Chester]

May I ask whether you've been getting yourself grounded most of the time while you're experiencing the transcendental joy?

I seem to find myself "grounded" from the perspective of appreciation... of whatever is going on as opposed to being yanked around by desires. Feeling quite care-free as if (as Jorr would say) "All is well."

This sense of "all is well" seems to be much bigger than ever before relative to my chattering mind that has always been "trying to make things better."

Don't get me wrong, I am still quite an active "doer." I just don't seem near so attached to whatever I am hoping to accomplish. Strangely though, what I do set out to accomplish appears to occur much more easily.

This "new level" seems to have happened overnight. I hope it lasts.

[Chester]

I'm different I guess. Which isn't a bad thing. :)

I have difficulty with skepticism. Primarily because it's self refuting. I see a lot of skepticism in this.

Here's an example of the problem with relative truth. It's self referentially absurd. We are relative to truths that exist, that are not relative. Circles are not relative. They are circles. You can't make a square circle. We all know certain things are right, and certain things are wrong. We change our beliefs to fit the difficulty we have with each specific truth. It's called bending the truth, or living a lie that's prefered over living in accordance with truth.

Which isn't to say that's what I'm saying your doing. I like you! But I disagree with you. :)

Relativity in this sense you describe only leads to this: significant thought is impossible, significant speech is impossible, and significant actions are impossible. Why? Because nothing can ever possibly have meaning. And that's the problem. Words do have meanings. Words have very clear and distinct meanings. Actions have very clear and distinct meanings, and yes! Our thoughts have very clear and distinct meanings.

By this definition, there's no difference between walking to the store and walking off a cliff. Because the definitions are relative.

I can't believe you believe that. If you do, nothing of what you said has any meaning...and that can't be possible (even if it is fun!) :)

And yet...there's something about what you're saying, if I read between the lines, that comes full circle to where I started from and makes sense. In other words, and boy is this scary in some ways and exciting in others, there's a seed of truth that exists in every person, in every being. And I think it's the seed in me that relates to the seed in you.

I'm still working through the gnostic stuff. Quite interestingly, I've not yet to find anything significant in gnosticism that isn't compatible with mere Christianity..except it smells very strongly of Platonism. And to note: I believe a portion of "The Republic" was found the the Nag Hammadi texts was it not?

Does that mean I can't jive with Gnosticism? Well...only as far as I can jive with Platonism. There's synthesis, and then there's synthetic. I need time to keep studying this.

At the very least? This has helped you find sobriety bro. As one who is a very difficult 20 years clean, congrats. Even if I can't agree philosophically, I can sure as hell support you if it keeps you sober.

*highfive*

If you are looking at an object, from your point of view that object may appear to be a circle. If you change your angle, that same object may now begin to look like an oval. So if you could become two people and look at that object from those two different angles, the you that is looking at the circle might never agree that the object is an oval even though it is both. The other person may also never agree it is a circle even though it is both.

The point is that when we discuss concepts, points of view are components of the discussion and it is possible that, depending on the point of view, the conclusions of those points of view both happen to be right.

So who is the rightest?

Sadly, unless one can somehow "imagine..." (there really is no adequate word) ...what it might be like to be the still, formless, eternal, infinite... and allow all "things" to melt away from awareness, it may be harder to understand relative truth as the observer only knows relative truth.

Its like all this conspiracy stuff. What's the worst that can happen? That your soul gets eaten by reptilian Archons and thus becomes a slave to these being for eternity? Or that you have free will to chose another fate for yourself? Is it acceptable to believe in some dynamic where you can't make that choice? But if it is "true" that there is a dynamic that prevents you from ever being able to make that choice, is that acceptable to you? Is it acceptable to you that you find yourself created by some creator where this ends up being your eternal fate that you can never escape or resolve or alter? If this might be true, then what does any of anything matter anyways?

I can't answer any of those questions. All I can do is make a bet on what answers are most acceptable to me and live as though I have won (or am winning or will one day win) my bet.

If I am right, I didn't waste my time.

If I am wrong, what did any of all this matter anyways?

Anyhow - because I have become quite proficient at living as though i have won my bet, I have also discovered all the darkness to be within me."

And anything that is within me, I can do something about (or as I see it now... I can recede from its affects).

All these movements are shifts in my relative position. Shifts in points of view.

Seeing that suggests a "no point of view" point of view. Or a fluid, flexible point of view which is the best i can do from within form... the illusory world I apparantly became attracted to.

[Milneman]

My friend, and the more I read you, the more I believe that,

You're confusing the object and the form. But you're not either. Which just goes to show that a straight line may be the fastest way between two points, but it's not necessarily the more interesting of the two!

[powessy]

Words never do this justice, but since I must use words I will say that that ACTUAL me is simple "me," unmanifest. It is eternal, it is prior to form, it is of no time yet always now. I like to believe we are all "this." That we somehow tricked ourselves into forgetting this. Perhaps life would not be what it is if we fully know this from birth... Uh oh... I sense that pesky mind thing has awakened again... YUCK! Adios

It was not US that tricked US, there are much greater factors involved then this I believe. The real question is how did spirituality get so twisted, I believe that there is only a small group of us out there that can even believe in or see the things we do.
I just recently had my true awakening but I have always felt the connection to it I just ignored it. I suspect you are speaking of the ego as the pesky mind thing, During powessy's ascension I became aware of this thing also. I locked him in a sound proof room ( he took shape in my mind) but powessy let him out, He told me that he needed to be there, but that I must be in control(I will use this term loosely). What A ride the last few months have been. I think we have come to a agreement but there are times.