I live off grid; does anyone else?

[Snowflower]

I live in a two room cabin with central heat (stove in the center), running water (we run and get it), humanure toilets using wood chips instead of sawdust because that's what we have - works great, cook inside on the wood stove in the winter and outside on a rocket stove in the summer, electricity from solar panels with generator backup, telephone and Internet via a wireless, broadband service beaming from our own tower, repeated from the plains.

Even with this very low standard of living, I am fully aware that life would change dramatically without the umbilical cord to town. I have goats for milk, meat, skins, and cheese - have a manual milk separator for butter, have ducks and chickens for eggs and meat. I have a very large garden, that does very well with greens, potatoes, onions, squashes, carrots, beets, but has yet to produce beans, peas, brassicas - they don't make blossoms at this altitude (8000 ft.) But even with all that, I still buy food every month. I still buy gasoline for the car and generator. I still buy fabric for clothes. We spent $7000 last year digging a new well. Then another $3000 for a complete solar system to get the water out of the ground.

Someday a part will break and we won't be able to replace it. Someday, we won't be able to buy groceries or gasoline. We were isolated for two weeks after the flood and did fine, but my husband had a mild heart attack that day and if it had been worse, he would have died because we could NOT get help that day. The road was totally destroyed and not even helicopters could fly in the storm.

I guess my point is full recognition that as well as we're doing, it is not enough to assure survival when push comes to shove, but it's a hell of a lot better than starting from a house in the burbs. Besides - I have fun doing it. I love learning to make leather, then sewing something useful from it. My granddaughter (16) and I finally managed to make decent looking baskets from flax we grew ourselves. We have a big pile of clay dug out of the lake and built an unground kiln for primitive firing, then made some bowls and fired them. Super neat!

Is anyone else out there actually doing it?

[Violet]

I am so very happy for you Snowflower! Unfortunately, not all people can have their families consent to this new life.

There was a great documentary on this recently, about a German guy, who left his family to go live off the grid. His kids visit him regularly. And he managed to find a woman who agreed to live with him on these terms. Details escape me.

Sorry for my asking but from where stems the picture in your avatar. I had a dream earlier this year and this picture looks like taken right out of it.

[Becky]

Fantastic work, Snowflower, I'm really impressed as it takes real dedication to do this. I barely play at it by growing some of our own fruit/veg and herbs.
Becky x

[seleka]

It is like another poster said for me. The other party is not interested in that type of living, and I am too old and broke(n) right now to do it alone. I plan to as soon as I can though. I have a friend with a lot of land that I recently met.

This is a thing that makes me hopeful- http://thealternativenow.wordpress.com/

[Milneman]

I've done it...food on a wood-burning stove is different in OH my goodness such a good way. Bumbleberry crumble and birch wood fire. NOM

I don't...but I know how to, and the goal is to get there. Way up north in the bush of Northern Saskatchewan. It'll happen. I'm on my way.

I envy you sister! But I've had a taste of it. What I miss the most is the silence.

[Bubu]

Even with this very low standard of living,



you are off grid and have a very low standard of living????? Anyway I can see that you are still relying heavily on what powers the grid. Things will go better as you learn. I can go off grid anytime with everything I need in a backpack. but certain things need to be done first. Sigh...

Try to learn from the monkeys it will help lot.

best wishes to your journey

[Anchor]

Off grid reporting in here from the Central Tablelands of NSW.

I live on a Farm - I grow Olives and soon I will be planting a Hazelnut grove. However, I currently leave that paradise and drive into Sydney 3 days a week to earn some old paradigm money; but the day that becomes impossible is the day I simply start to live here full time and I wont miss a beat.

Off grid things: Fully solar powered; access to bore water (pumped by Solar) for irrigation; rain water collection for house water; fenced off vege garden with raised beds (coming soon ... irrigation!);well insulated house; slow wood burner. Currently cook using LPG cooktop, with electric ovens. We can switch to electricity when necessary. Solar system is large enough to do that ok.

Ongrid aspects remaining: 1) Grid power (currently turned off) 2) Telephone 3) Wireless access to internet. 4) Still buy some food items from shops

Problems: Things I could still have a problem with: a lot of farm machinery has a dependence on diesel (tractors, generators) and some on gasoline (shredders, mower, small generators, pumps) and I have not worked out how to make olive oil into something I can run my tractor on - but I am told it is possible. Another potential idea is I am thinking about is that electric car technology is moving so fast at the moment I may be able to convert some of the machines to electric (and thus solar powered).

Building up to this has been a lifelong dream for self-sufficiency and so far a 4 year project. Everything we did in our lives was focused on the outcome we now experience. It has been a wild trip.

[DarMar]

Lets say that I live semi off-grid :)

Just finished new fireplace yesterday made of stone and earth (clay) and replaced old one. Now I'm sneaking at baking bread thread to catch some new good recipes hehe.
For water i go to some of nearby springs, there are somewhere around 10 them in this part. Water is flawless!
I still carry water by hand because i like walking through these parts. And while carrying it I'm speaking with it and thanking it's beign. Also rain is collected same as water from atmosphere (condensation) for what washing needs mostly.
It is house in deep forest not to far from capital city, and made well with necessary stuff around. Also i made wifi antenna installation from old umbrella and some aluminium that has 2-3km reach so I'm connected at my friends home for net stuff.
We have a lot of fruits, natural trees, nuts and little garden, now planning to try in house hydroponics for some vegs.
Have no animals personally but there are few people around which moved along from city here in these parts and they have goats, sheeps, chickens and we do exchange alot.
Most of stuff we use are hand made by my girl and me. She makes nice clothing from sheeps wool :)
Although i do earn money from games and stuff I sell on internet, we actually don't use that much and can live without it completely, and that's tested.
But now and than i like to buy a new guitar or computer so there money flows... from system to system. I'm not affected by it, only using it.

And yes I must agree this way of life gives alot of fun and learning. There are tasks and sometimes downsides, but overcoming that is excelent feeling.

[Bubu]

and I am too old and broke(n) right now to do it alone.

This is a thing that makes me hopeful- http://thealternativenow.wordpress.com/

Heloo K,

Old is not based on age but rather health and energy. Regain your health and you regain your youth. I'm 48 and I'm young.
And frankly I can't see the logic in living off grid and wanting to do things like you do it on grid. You'll get bored. Savor the excitement of the wilderness instead of just turning off and on the pressurize tap.

from from vantage point only

[sheme]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01k3bl2

BBC 2 Tudor Monastery Farm. I hope you can view this as there is some great survival information here.

[chancy]

Off grid reporting in here from the Central Tablelands of NSW.

I live on a Farm - I grow Olives and soon I will be planting a Hazelnut grove. However, I currently leave that paradise and drive into Sydney 3 days a week to earn some old paradigm money; but the day that becomes impossible is the day I simply start to live here full time and I wont miss a beat.

Off grid things: Fully solar powered; access to bore water (pumped by Solar) for irrigation; rain water collection for house water; fenced off vege garden with raised beds (coming soon ... irrigation!);well insulated house; slow wood burner. Currently cook using LPG cooktop, with electric ovens. We can switch to electricity when necessary. Solar system is large enough to do that ok.

Ongrid aspects remaining: 1) Grid power (currently turned off) 2) Telephone 3) Wireless access to internet. 4) Still buy some food items from shops

Problems: Things I could still have a problem with: a lot of farm machinery has a dependence on diesel (tractors, generators) and some on gasoline (shredders, mower, small generators, pumps) and I have not worked out how to make olive oil into something I can run my tractor on - but I am told it is possible. Another potential idea is I am thinking about is that electric car technology is moving so fast at the moment I may be able to convert some of the machines to electric (and thus solar powered).

Building up to this has been a lifelong dream for self-sufficiency and so far a 4 year project. Everything we did in our lives was focused on the outcome we now experience. It has been a wild trip.

Hello Anchor: You can make bio diesel from your olive oil and run all your diesel motors with it. Bio diesel is really easy to make. You just can run it in extreme cold.
Have a great day!
chancy

[Anchor]

Hello Anchor: You can make bio diesel from your olive oil and run all your diesel motors with it. Bio diesel is really easy to make. You just can run it in extreme cold.
Have a great day!
chancy


Thanks.

The oil I produce is very high quality, organic, cold pressed with a manual powered hydraulic press. Currently that oil sells for substantially more than diesel (about 35x !) per litre

Consequently I wont be making bio diesel with it until there is some kind of emergency - lol

[Carmen]

My three neighbours are off grid. Two of them have their freezers in my old garage! I have been setting up my home for sometime to be self sufficient. If we lost power now we would survive quite nicely. We have a wood stove that heats water, solar for summer when the fire isn't on. I am just completing an add on glasshouse to my verander for growing veg in winter and hot house plants in summer. We raise our own lamb, beef, pork and have hens for egg production. If there was no fuel we have our horses for transport. Our water supply is gravity fed from a spring. We use no artificial fertilizer on the property. We do buy in seaweed based loose minerals to feed our stock. This, I consider to be our fertilizer through the animal dung. I will be planting coppicing trees for firewood this winter. The more I do to add to my self sufficiency, the more secure I feel.

[StandingWave]

So good to see a thread in here on this subject - In these times I am surprised to find so few are actualising their dreams, but I suspect that many who are doing this are wary to publish their existence or location as being truly off-grid means never being online (on-grid) anyway! We are on the east side of sub-tropical southern Africa in a fairly remote area, embedded among amaXhosa tribal people. My partner and I have been creating a large food forest and researching workable diets for the last 8 years here. We are not very far off being able to stay home permanently now that the forest of veg, fruit and utility timber is fairly well established and our small flocks are growing. The biggest piece of the puzzle for us was discovering a way of eating that supports health and can be provided for without external input or monetary expenditure. Hearing C. J. Hunt interviewed by a few people about his amazing documentary 'The Perfect Human Diet' has allowed us to begin to feel that we can do this and ensure our ability to continue working the land for many years to come in robust good health. The quality of life is truly paradisical: clean water, clean fresh air, plenty of sunshine, quiet nights, no 'service' bills, no municipal regulations, happy, healthy animals around us. The best decision we ever made was to cut loose and spend all our resources on establishing a real life lived in close harmony with a supportive environment! We have a small solar powered electricity capacity, a bio-gas digester to run stove and a deep-freeze and to manage all biodegradable waste, solar heated water and a flock of muscovy ducks, chickens and Awassi/Fat-tail/Frieslander milk sheep. We are hoping to meet more like-minded souls in this area to grow our numbers slowly to a small community of around 5 - 8 dedicated individuals but we realise that Others will be gifted to us by Universe as and when the time is right...

[MargueriteBee]

I am semi off the grid. A propane generator goes off every other day to charge the solar batteries. To be honest I am done. Next year I am moving back to Sacramento and enjoying the rest of my time. I am so done with bugs and wood stove. And I am surrounded by hundreds of five acre lots and thousands of other people trying to live off the grid. Baaa humbug!

[Snowflower]

Awesome responses worldwide! Thank you! Marguerite, sometimes I feel SO ready to pack it in and bail out, but even when I'm tired to the bone, I never want to go live in a city - just sometimes I'd rather be a snowbird escaping to the south every winter. Standing Wave, welcome to Avalon and your life sounds like a fulfilling endeavor.

Bubu, the point is practice. I would not want to be learning the first steps in gardening right in the middle of a survival emergency, or making major mistakes when I can't fix things from society. By low standard of living, I mean I don't live with high technology such as unlimited electricity and lots of gadgets, but even so, I still feel a dependence on civilization.

My son also lives here on the land but has a massive bank of solar panels and lots of gadgets. He is 100% dependent on society, with no intention to be otherwise. A family Trust owns the land (and paid for that water system). It's very convenient, but last winter I really got a hint of the future when the old pump stopped working and we had no water until a replacement part arrived. There is water without the well from a few springs, but at age 65, it would be very, very hard to get that water. Every time something happens that must be solved with a new "whatever" from a purchased source, I am forcibly reminded of our true dependence on the grid "out there."

Anchor, sounds like you've got things together pretty well - olive oil is wonderfully healthy for you. We bought ducks because I realized how badly we would need a source of fat and hunting bears is a bit chancy, lol.

[Anchor]

I am semi off the grid. A propane generator goes off every other day to charge the solar batteries. To be honest I am done. Next year I am moving back to Sacramento and enjoying the rest of my time. I am so done with bugs and wood stove. And I am surrounded by hundreds of five acre lots and thousands of other people trying to live off the grid. Baaa humbug!

Good on you. It is important you enjoy it, if you don't it makes the struggle really hard. I am so lucky that I enjoy it right now and want to stay.

The next step after I get my self done completely is start to see who else in the area wants to join in with the idea.

I realized early on that my reluctance to have much to do with "other people" is something I have to overcome to make this work longer term.

[Snowflower]

Anchor, most of the pain of doing this has come from having the wrong people here. Be very slow about accepting anyone, ok?

[mosquito]

Awesome !

Congratulations to all of you, I'm so happy to see so many actually doing it. Good luck ;)

[Zelig]

Here's a guy that has done the electric tractor thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YmbFtJlZpU

[Crystine]

What happens when all go off grid? The biggest problem will be keeping what is yours. I wholeheartedly admire the lifestyle you have chosen. But if it all goes down? Do you weave? Do you spin? How did you get your water? Is your well the type from antiquity? You know, the kind with a bucket? My folks have a well. With a pump. Big difference. My family loves camping. Off the grid for only four or five days. That is fun. I don't know about having to live that way. Dad had a huge garden. But for that garden to sustain life he would have needed guards to keep the wildlife out.

[grannyfranny100]

I am glad people are pointing out the realities of living off the grid. It is romanticized and not something to be undertaken lightly. Highly recommend reading the diaries of early settlers in the midwest and west. Quite enlightening.

[jagman]

It sounds like you have a pretty good setup but I didnt hear you mention
anything about security snowflower. I would suggest a few good crossbows.
The reason I say crossbows is because of the silence factor.You also need
more help. You could enlist some trusted family members or friends. Oh if
I ever get the chance I'm going to build the ultimate survival compound.

[blufire]

I no longer think of the way I live as ‘off the grid’ . . . although I am capable of comfortable lifestyle without public utilities or grocery stores.

I concentrate on being as self reliant and self sustaining as possible in any kind of economic and societal atmosphere both present and future.

I am prepared basically for 3 different types of ‘living’.

1. Total break down of all economic and social structures. This means complete and total self reliance. This is the down and dirty of living off the land and your wits and knowledge. I have practiced this type of existence off and on over the years. Can I make clothing from furs and other fibers . . . yes. Can I tell where there is water by looking at the lay of the land , dowsing, and by what is growing near . . . yep. Can I grow food from saved seed and preserve it for a year for a large family . . . yep. Can I protect my land and livelihood by several different means . . . yep.

2. Living by means of future technology and perceived earth changes. This means reading, researching and observing everything that is happening on a global scale and slowly integrating those into your life and way of living. This takes a great deal of ability to adapt and change with the changes and projecting into the future. It is difficult because this means what is comfortable for many years will change abruptly and either you change with it or fall through the cracks and become a victim of ‘their’ planned structure for humanity.

This also means I watch carefully what those within the power structures are doing. If I see CEO’s bailing out of certain investments or corporations then I sit up and take notice and extrapolate why I feel this may be happening. I wait to see which way they go from there . . sit and wait and watch to see if new dynamics begin.

3. Most of all I currently I live with a happy blend of homesteading and ‘on grid’ methods. How ‘on grid’ I am depends on how sustaining that element may be on the farm. An example is I heat totally with wood in my home during the winter. I have enough wood where I live to literally last forever. During the summer when it gets uncomfortably hot I run the air conditioner in my bedroom so I can sleep comfortably.

One of the constant difficulties in living off grid as several have mentioned is fuel for tractors, generators or transportation. Think people how those produced their own fuel when combustible engines first came available . . . . there was no oil drilling rigs and refineries and tankers to haul to the local gas stations . . . . their local moonshiner become an even more popular guy.

Learn how to make your own fuel . . . all you need are a corn patch and a simple copper still. It can double as fuel for the tractor and rheumatism medicine for your aching back!! I ain’t kidding either.

Be creative and think both in the past and into the future and use both to your advantage. Living off-grid or self reliant doesn’t have to be a dirty word or met with disdain and hell no I ain’t living that way sort of mind set. I am comfortable with every creature comfort I need.

So many think it is an either/or kind of decision and its really isn’t. Blend all any lifestyle so that you can become as proficient and sustaining as possible. Set up several ways of life so you have options when things may change drastically.

And for those of you who think you are too old. I am 54 and female and started all over (for the most part) a little over 3 years ago when I moved back to the Appalachians from Kansas. There are days I definitely feel my age but the self gratification, security and pleasure I feel when I get a new spring house built or a cord of wood split or my water line split with appropriate valves and fittings where I can use public water or water from my new pond is worth every little ache and pain and bruise.

[c0rv0]

Here at eliopoli.org we are completely off grid (report (http://eliopoli.org/2012/04/going-off-grid-considerations/)).
this is our setup:

Earth Sheltered Dome (http://eliopoli.org/2012/01/the-earth-sheltered-dome-journey-a-presentation/)
http://eliopoli.org/wp-content/uploads/20130203_135556.jpg

Integration in the landscape
Superior insulation
Hurricane-bomb-earthquake proof
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25873984/alternativeEnergy.jpg
4 Kw solar
3 Kw wind
16 Surette 640 Battery bank
inverter 4 Kw
Gas generator 9Kw
http://lh6.ggpht.com/-fmqsTQjJBWQ/T5GcVK4wg7I/AAAAAAAAGKg/1rUjMu8O7Bc/IMAG0085.jpg
Solar Hot water
well with gravity feed
0.9 amp water pump
LED lights only
http://eliopoli.org/wp-content/uploads/GreenhouseReport_html_38a9d6e3.png
Geodesic Greenhouse (http://eliopoli.org/2013/03/greenhouse-report/)

Vegetables in winter: Plants grow in profusion in the moist, warm interior
Energy-Efficiency: with solar design and thermal mass
Wood Kitchen stove
http://m2.paperblog.com/i/128/1283400/ricetta-eliopolitana-per-la-decrescita-L-2USiu8.png
onion security concept <-- sorry no details here

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25873984/20131028_163920.jpg
Now, maybe you think that this is the "perfect setup", but - as the OP - I see the weak points:
We produce 50% only of our food, 95% of our energy consume (cars not considered). If anything break we need to get spare parts
Maintenance of all systems costs a quantity of time, without "producing money".
From the social aspect we face... some incomprehension
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25873984/Eliopoli.png
Nevertheless we are happy. It gives a sense of purpose that I never had in my previous life.
and.... by the way this probably is the only way to have a survival chance in the coming times.

[soleil]

snowflower, my hope is that communities will pop all over the place for those of like mind, helping others make it easier.

[blufire]

snowflower, my hope is that communities will pop all over the place for those of like mind, helping others make it easier.

You know sway, I have absolutely no idea what this means any more . . . the ‘like mind’ part I mean

At this point I believe the only way communities will pop up all over the place with people of like minds is if there is a complete destruction of current societal structures and way of life and to the point that the ‘like mind’ part is formed from sheer survival, in other words there will be no other choice.

There are little groups or families scattered about but these are in complete opposition to the norm.

[Anchor]

Here's a guy that has done the electric tractor thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YmbFtJlZpU

Not to derail the thread, but check this out - so cute

uDLr_VRRaWQ

[Snowflower]

Anchor, that was delightful.

Blufire, I agree. I don't know what "like minds" means anymore. I tried to make community happen. So far, bad idea. Now my idea is to just let it happen organically and let universe decide when. So I suspect it won't become until SHTF happens.

C0rvo - that last pic "what they think..." made me laugh out loud. Thanks.

Jagman, the property is pretty defensible. We've analyzed it and already have lookouts located, that kind of thing. In fact, we are prepared to defend against one specific person whom we totally expect will gather a gang and attack some day. Our best hope against him is that he isn't very smart and has no idea how smart we are. The very fact that we expect it makes us one up on him. We have "modern" defense tools, but also have more ancient ones, in addition to really primitive tools such as handmade bows and arrows (but also high tech compound bows - eclectic mix.)

Christine, that's why we need community. One person can't do it all. I don't spin or weave, but my daughter does and she has two spinning wheels and four looms: 48", 48", 26", and 11feet - yes, 11feet - the kind you can make a room sized rug on. I can make leather and we have both agreed that we're a lot more likely to have as much leather clothing as possible, because when you get down to making yarn from plant or animal, it takes a bitchin' long time to make a square of cloth! Granddaughter and I recently figured out how to make shoe soles from braided grass - to put on the bottom of leather shoes, to make the leather wear a lot longer - easier to replace grass soles frequently than leather!

Daughter also knows pottery intimately. The kind of science knowledge you get from a degree in fine arts, pottery major. She learned all kinds of things. Didn't even know there was to learn about the science of mixing clays, tempers, etc. My son knows engineering; how to build aquaponics, wood gas generators, maybe how to get water from hand pump over slight hill to garden.

About the well - if solar fails and well is still there after earthquakes, we have an old fashioned hand pump to get water out of the ground.

[Hughe]

I'm half way of off-grid living. I can live six months in my shelter in a village even if the grid falls tomorrow. My goal is to build healthy food garden, energy efficient geodesic dome, and independent electrical power. It gave it up finding likely minded people too. So I've been doing everything by myself that I have learned various skills under my belt. It's challenging every step I take.

@Snowflower

In my country population density is so high, very small in land mass. Most preppers are driven by fear with lack of vision and different perspective of living. I haven't decided yet whether I join prepper's community or not.

[Conchis]

I have been moving in this direction for years (and it seems like years and years). I haven't made nearly the progress that I'd like, but I've made some basic steps. I also feel like there is really no way out of the grid entirely, but if I had a community of people with different skill sets and an interest in barter, we could live pretty happily without getting the outside world too involved. When it comes down to it, the requirement to pay taxes represents the biggest risk of a loss of ability to survive because it can only be satisfied with currency.

The only constructive thing I can add might be that I have a hand pump water well that sits inside of the same 4" pipe that my solar well pump sits in so that even if the solar breaks down I have water. It was pricey, but the one thing you can't really do without very long is water. It is key, so I made sure that I had a source in any eventuality.

[Snowflower]

Speaking of being off grid...I have been without Internet or phone since Monday morning due to faulty connection fixed this afternoon. Been lonely around here. One foot of snow on the ground, still snowing, going down to minus 11 tonight. Hubby staying in town until Friday since road is so very, very bad after flood, will be impossible in snow. I'm mostly staying in bed with cold gone into bronchitis. Gonna be a hard winter...

[MargueriteBee]

Well I wondered what it would be like. I just spent a few days without power. The generator broke down. $150 of food spoiled. Got just enough sun to be online a few minutes. Can't get anyone out here in the boonies to fix it. I am outta here next year.

[Arak]

I had slight off grid experience after we had storm two nights ago and power went off for 1.5 days. Here in Finland it is winter now and it usually means tempeatures below freezing point. It has been relatively warm lately, so in these southerns parts there is no snow, which could be melted to water. We have a fireplace in our house and it was very usefull as with out it there would be very cold as said it's been -5 to -10 degrees of celsius past few days... We have slight emergency supply of canned and dry food, so i was not abit worried about food, but water was bigger problem. See our well works only with electricity and without it we cant drink, flush toilet and so on. So what i basicly had to do was to drive nearest village and buy water bottles from there. But as we didnt want to use drinking water to flush toilet, we went to nearby lake and took few big buckets of water and carried those to home.

What we are now planning to buy is a emergency generator (solar wind is not option in Finland, there just isnt enough of it during winter.) but that would ofc only help us few days or weeks max in SHTF scenario. We also need to consider building up backup toilet in our yard which would work without water.

In short, the biggest problem in our off grid life is waterwithout electricity. In very bad emergency situation we could ofc boil nearby lake water and drink it also. So if compared to people who live in towns I would say we are quite well prepared. And ofcourse it helps a bit that I have been in a army for one year and during that time we spent quite many weeks in forest, both summer and winter time. So basicly I could hunt (I can shoot quite well), but dont have a gun and getting one is quite tricky. Atleast becouse I dont want to get hunting licence as I am pesco vegetarian, atleast during these normal times.

[Anchor]

Arak,

Thanks for highlighting the most important thing to take care of. WATER.

No matter how good your systems are they can fail and when they do you need a way of being able to quickly process water into safe drinking water. Get yourselves a Katadyn or UV Steripen - or both!

If you think you are off grid, temporarily switch off your power sources and see how you cope.

If you only have one generator and this is your backup and it is essential then, in my opinion, you don't have enough redundancy in your design.

John..

[Arak]

Thanks for the tip. Both look very good options to ensure drinking water, but I think Katadyne is better, becouse it doesnt require electricity. :)

[Crystine]

Anchor, that was delightful.

Blufire, I agree. I don't know what "like minds" means anymore. I tried to make community happen. So far, bad idea. Now my idea is to just let it happen organically and let universe decide when. So I suspect it won't become until SHTF happens.

C0rvo - that last pic "what they think..." made me laugh out loud. Thanks.

Jagman, the property is pretty defensible. We've analyzed it and already have lookouts located, that kind of thing. In fact, we are prepared to defend against one specific person whom we totally expect will gather a gang and attack some day. Our best hope against him is that he isn't very smart and has no idea how smart we are. The very fact that we expect it makes us one up on him. We have "modern" defense tools, but also have more ancient ones, in addition to really primitive tools such as handmade bows and arrows (but also high tech compound bows - eclectic mix.)

Christine, that's why we need community. One person can't do it all. I don't spin or weave, but my daughter does and she has two spinning wheels and four looms: 48", 48", 26", and 11feet - yes, 11feet - the kind you can make a room sized rug on. I can make leather and we have both agreed that we're a lot more likely to have as much leather clothing as possible, because when you get down to making yarn from plant or animal, it takes a bitchin' long time to make a square of cloth! Granddaughter and I recently figured out how to make shoe soles from braided grass - to put on the bottom of leather shoes, to make the leather wear a lot longer - easier to replace grass soles frequently than leather!

Daughter also knows pottery intimately. The kind of science knowledge you get from a degree in fine arts, pottery major. She learned all kinds of things. Didn't even know there was to learn about the science of mixing clays, tempers, etc. My son knows engineering; how to build aquaponics, wood gas generators, maybe how to get water from hand pump over slight hill to garden.

About the well - if solar fails and well is still there after earthquakes, we have an old fashioned hand pump to get water out of the ground.

I have tried to get my family interested in living like this. More than once. No takers. But I have educated myself. I sew. I am learning to spin. I weave on an Native american style loom. I can make soap from scratch. I cut hair . And am getting better at herbal treatments. And also pretty proficient at foraging. If I don't recognize it. There are books. I envy you. Now I feel too old. Unless we are forced to go this way. I am a hippie at heart.