Would You Sacrifice Your Life....?

[UpToLight]

...for something special or someone? This question was always interesting for me.

I don't know if I could unless that moment comes.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Hello there! This question is quite a poser and not in a bad sense.

I think it might vary for some people -- it takes quite a stout heart to face some situations.
You put it very well, when the moment comes etc.

Like that fellow rescued recently from the bottom of an upside-down submerged boat:
the divers definitely risked their lives to get him out!
Dives are extremely dangerous if there is debris or narrow passages (Shadow Divers)

Perhaps it could be said that the most heroic sacrifice is the unseen or the unacknowledged.
For example, taking proper care of a child. That is also giving up something for someone else,
but the end result is different; it doesn't cause one's life to end, but merely to change.

Perhaps it is easier sometimes to die than to change. :angel:
That is my personal belief.

To live is hard -- that is one of the reasons some people don't manage it. Survival demands a lot -- sometimes even moral compromises.
Those who have struggled with thoughts of death either have seen too much of it or have experienced such a difficult life that anything seems better.
Some people leave a lot of life's work behind them without a name attached or engraved in it. Others are permitted more recognition.

I suppose the thought that rolls around in my mind is, do the famous dead look back on life and wish they had lived a life of peace and obscurity?
Do the unacknowledged or otherwise humble dead look back on life and wish they had lived a life of fame and notice?
Or do both of them simply crave life? Or do they even know anything at all, simply part of the energies moving through the universe?

When there is a crisis, oftentimes things happen so fast, that we don't have much time to think or to make decisions -- like when someone is choking or burning.
We either help or we don't, and it's up to the people watching to fix the odds...

You ask a very good question here and no doubt lots of people will find it fascinating.

It's weird to read your thread after putting down "Memnoch the Devil" (toward the end of the book again lol) in the bathroom.
That whole book is about life, death, and sacrifice for others.

P.S. I was frustrated by the story from Britain last year or so, where bystanders watched someone drown instead of helping... that is definitely not good.

P.P.S. Better than risking your life is simply warning people of danger before they reach it, i.e. people in a canoe headed for a bridge in a flooded river, water 8" below bottom of bridge LMAO (they didn't listen to me -- thankfully their canoe flipped before the bridge could take their heads off!!!)...

P.P.S. At this point in time I've probably fantasized considerably (less since high school I guess) about saving people heroically. Maybe it's part of getting old.
But the reaction is still there and hopefully if the time ever comes, I will know what to do and when.

[mosquito]

Hmm, the inner hero cries "but of course", while the inner coward cries "never !"

It's one of those things we won't know until the time comes.

[markpierre]

No one can answer that question. It's an odd question anyway. Were you planning something?

The truth is anybody would. Not unless they had to. But that choice would not be made by the mind that you're asking now.

[spiritguide]

Sacrificing oneself for the common good is natural for selfless individuals. IMHO

Peace!

[GNC Harteveld]

I would risk my life for certain thing but not sacrifice my life. I'm not a religious nut.

[Vitalux]

Mine is a never :nono: dying kind of love :wub:

[JohnJ]

This is a thought provoking concept.
Would you sacrifice your own life for ?????
Do you just die for no reason? Is it a them or me scenario? Is your death a trade for the life of a small group of people? Are they strangers or family? Is it a trade for a race of people? Is it a trade for the entire earths population? I would say many peoples answers would vary in each case.
The survival instinct in me is strong. I would think that it is that way for nearly all people. The question posed, I believe is too limited.
Would you sacrifice your life?
I would say no. I would not sacrifice my life.
But if it was for a purpose that would guarantee the survival of a loved one. Then yes. But I would not go without trying to survive.

[GreenGuy]

As you get older, you realize that physical life isn't the most important thing in the universe. There are certainly causes I would die for, and people I'd give my life for.

[seehas]

Hmm, the inner hero cries "but of course", while the inner coward cries "never !"

It's one of those things we won't know until the time comes.

i can confirm that this is a question you are only able to answer if you did it, ive had situation back in the days where i found someone attacked by a streetgang, something inside me was holding back for a second but my feet keept me going towards them ... things didnt went so well i got knocked out but i felt good about not having avoided that situation.

but the feeling inside me that told me DONT GO THERE YOU ARE IN DANGER.. was pretty weird it felt like a little devil sitting on my shoulder talking to me :dizzy:

[outerheaven]

There's no question -- absolutely. This is actually one of the most liberating things about my awakening: I now have something I believe in so strongly, I would sacrifice my life in the name of spreading the truth.

I had this talk with a co-worker recently. She said, "you just want to be a martyr."

I told her that I'm not seeking fame or glory, I'm seeking the truth. And unfortunately, we live in a world where the truth can get you killed. I accept that risk as part of my search for meaning.

As long as people fear death, or fear being killed for speaking the truth, we will never get the truth. Only bits and pieces of it, but along with the regular distortions, disinformation, etc., which make it near-impossible to discern the truth in the first place. That, to me, is unacceptable.

Here's the silver lining, though: every time someone is killed for speaking out, their message is only validated. This is why, since my awakening, I have been such a strong advocate of non-violent resistance. You don't need to physically fight back: the truth is the greatest weapon against those who seek to hide it and control and manipulate us via fear and ignorance. Every time they kill someone for speaking the truth, more people will take notice. The status quo will become less and less acceptable as our shackles become more and more apparent.

The problem with converting the unawakened is that, from their point of view, they don't really have a reason to believe us. To them, we look like paranoid hippies, and every time some atrocity happens in the world -- big surprise -- there we are, screaming "false flag!" Consider their perspective: when you're unawake, the idea that there is a massive, monolithic global conspiracy to enslave us, seems quite preposterous and truly paranoid indeed. Their lives are unaffected and go on as normal, so why should they believe the dangers we're warning them about? They don't have a reason to believe us until it's already too late.

To engage in violence against the controllers would only muddy the message. The unawakened would see the atrocities of the physical fight, and not see any reason why they should believe us versus the controllers, as our message is lost in the images of violence. (Not to mention, when you fight evil with evil, you allow yourself to become corrupted and become that which you are fighting.)

In my opinion, before a global, mass awakening takes place, we must lose our fear of death. We need people that are unafraid to speak the truth. Or else it will never surface.

I love that quote, "we are the ones we've been waiting for." It's true. We need to stop waiting for some celebrity, or politician, or mass event, or ETs or EDs, etc. to do the heavy lifting for us -- it's not gonna happen. We have to do it, and we start at the grass-roots level.

And before our message can reach the mainstream public, in my opinion, the controllers will fight back to try to suppress the truth. We can't count on the celebrities or politicians or anyone else to speak up, as they are all controlled. Right now, until our knowledge becomes more common place, we're on the front-lines of this struggle. I guess the question is: will you be ready to die for the truth if need be, or will you be silenced?

For me, the answer is a simple one. Living in a controlled, enslaved society is pointless, anyhow.

Edit: See the video in halffull's Cop arrested for refusing to remove Guy Fawkes mask (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66226-Cop-arrested-for-refusing-to-remove-Guy-Fawkes-mask) thread if you haven't. This is what I'm talking about. This is what we need -- regular people standing up and saying no at great risk to their personal lives.

[johnf]

I seriously doubt I would be up for it when the time came.
This sort of thing has never made a big enough difference for
those left behind for me to see it as a good thing for anyone to do this.
The good that could be done if certain teachers had survived would be greater than any
good that came from their martyrdom.
The main point behind all this is how ready the world is to accept the real truth and act accordingly.


jf

[outerheaven]

The good that could be done if certain teachers had survived would be greater than any
good that came from their martyrdom.

But that's the whole point! A teacher can't stay alive while speaking the truth, because the truth threatens the power structure. So if we are to remain fearful and silent, the truth never surfaces.

How else are we -- those kept in ignorance -- to ever know the truth? How does a mass awakening take place when everyone is too afraid to speak?

[Flash]

it may be too late, but I am swallowing back my words.

[Carmody]

I don't like these kinds of threads.

Too much like data mining, too much like subversive types of PTB and servants thereof - committing to the initiation of little innocent looking psychological tests for members of forums of this type.

I wish people would understand that and stop posting them.

My advice is....when you see a thread like this, don't contribute to it.

It's a soft war.

No matter how it seems, the bodies are piling up.

To matter if the inquiry be innocent in origin, the results are the same.

[Flash]

I don't like these kinds of threads.

Too much like data mining, too much like subversive types of PTB and servants thereof - committing to the initiation of little innocent looking psychological tests for members of forums of this type.

I wish people would understand that and stop posting them.

My advice is....when you see a thread like this, don't contribute to it.

It's a soft war.

No matter how it seems, the bodies are piling up.

Oh right, read your two first sentences only and goose bumps all over. You are totally right, I felt straight into it.

[rgray222]

...for something special or someone? This question was always interesting for me.

I don't know if I could unless that moment comes.

No, I would not sacrifice myself but I would be prepared to risk my life to save someone important to me. In other words I would be willing to put my life at risk but I would not willingly sacrifice my life. I think there is a huge difference.


I don't like these kinds of threads.

Too much like data mining, too much like subversive types of PTB and servants thereof - committing to the initiation of little innocent looking psychological tests for members of forums of this type.

I wish people would understand that and stop posting them.

My advice is....when you see a thread like this, don't contribute to it.

It's a soft war.

No matter how it seems, the bodies are piling up.

To matter if the inquiry be innocent in origin, the results are the same.

Aren't virtually all threads data mining? Couldn't every thread ever offered up be considered an initiation of psychological test by the PTB for members of any forum?

It is my belief people are members of a forum to mine data for their own personal use, whether it be to cure an dire illness, understanding the afterlife, learning about UFOs or attempting to understand if someone would be willing to put their life at risk for a cause or a loved one.

If people are going to change the world they can't wait for someone to do it for them. They have to be willing to to make sacrifices, even if it is the ultimate sacrifice. This thread gets people thinking about that!

If you live in fear of the PTB you have lost the war before you entered the battle!

[Milneman]

An appropriate response to this question:

“To sell your soul is the easiest thing in the world. That's what everybody does every hour of his life. If I asked you to keep your soul - would you understand why that's much harder?”


― Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead

[ghostrider]

To protect someone that can't protect themselves , absolutely , to defend the lives of the innocent , anyway I can ... What greater love than a man lay down his life for another ... Soldiers that swear an oath , to protect people they will never meet , and give up their freedoms , be removed from home , friends , family , and familiar surroundings ... chew on that ... If you are asked on the other side , what did you do with your life ??? I tried to look out for me , or I stepped in everytime to defend those who couldn't defend themselves ...

[Frederick Jackson]

I would risk my life for certain thing but not sacrifice my life. I'm not a religious nut.

Funny, I was just thinking about this last night. Conditions for a sacrifice would have to be very, very great for me and I really could not say whether I would really act. But risk, yes, that is another thing entirely, and I do risk myself to help others and to do the right thing.

PS Some millenia ago too many Christians were voluntarily martyring themselves and the Church had to put a stop to it. Same problem with monasticism. No more Christians with too much of this. One fellow, still many months distant from Rome and the coliseum was lamenting how long he would have to wait to experience the ecstasy of martyrdom, of the crunching of his bones in the lion's mouth & etc. (Paraphrase from Gibbon's Decline and Fall of he Roman Empire). Yeah, talk about being a religious nut!

[jagman]

I've risked my life on several ocassions. I pulled 2 inmates out of a burning cell
although i got burnt doing it. Once a car accident happened right in front of me
and I pulled an old lady out of her burning vehicle. I left the scene before the cops
arrived because I didnt do it for praise. It was more of an instinct that kicks in.
I would most definately lay down my life for my 2 sons but I think most good parents
would.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

You guys might consider reading the book "Anthem" by Ayn Rand.

If you are wondering if there are things worth dying for, tell me what the "unspeakable word" is. :)

It might not be the highest place but it's a good starting place...

p.s. even an atheist thought there were things worth dying for...

edit: i did NOT see this; I think she wants us to know what she thought. lol:



An appropriate response to this question:

“To sell your soul is the easiest thing in the world. That's what everybody does every hour of his life. If I asked you to keep your soul - would you understand why that's much harder?”


― Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead

[DeDukshyn]

Here's my two cents ...

Let me lay it out this way. I believe, committing to almost anything before the time to make that commitment occurs, is stupid. Live in the moment. You can still consider the past and future for what the are - things not real, but always live in the moment.

That said, I may or may not, depending on the circumstance at the moment.

[Milneman]

Get out of my head...lol gonna track down the audiobook if it's available....the ending of the Fountainhead gives me goose bumps...no lie. :)

[Mike]

I would like to say "yes", but anyone who has done so knee-jerkily hasn't thought it thru.

The only difference between a coward and a hero is the hero's lack of imagination. In other words, what if your sacrifice involved torture? Nails being pulled from fingers and toes? Dismemberment? And then death...

The movies give us such a romantic vision of death, especially one in the name of ideals. But what they don't show you is the guy with bedsores due to months of immobility, ****#ing himself, and beeping a nurse when he needs to be cleaned up. Most times you don't just die - you suffer mightily first. And then you pass away to little fanfare, regardless of your heroic deed.

An even better question might be: would you sacrifice your life *anonymously* for a person or ideal? It takes all the romanticism out of it.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

What kind of question is that if I may ask, are you taking a poll here, does answering it get me on some list, or off some list, is this where you add a resume for applying for a job as a pooicide bummer?

Just as bad as a question as the standard stupid New Age answer "Life is forever, I am energy, I cannot be killed, I cannot be destroyed, blahblahblah", "sure dude WTF ever" is what I think when I read stuff like that, its not the leaving of my body part that I am afraid of, its the process of getting there that scares the hell out of me, that part of this deal could be really really painfull and last a long long time.

24060

Aw..... rats, now I am on the list, dammit.

[UpToLight]

What kind of question is that if I may ask, are you taking a poll here, does answering it get me on some list, or off some list, is this where you add a resume for applying for a job as a pooicide bummer?

Just as bad as a question as the standard stupid New Age answer "Life is forever, I am energy, I cannot be killed, I cannot be destroyed, blahblahblah", "sure dude WTF ever" is what I think when I read stuff like that, its not the leaving of my body part that I am afraid of, its the process of getting there that scares the hell out of me, that part of this deal could be really really painfull and last a long long time.

24060

Aw..... rats, now I am on the list, dammit.

Oh man, this is just discussion. Why to interpret the question like that?

I apologize if it offended you.

[Mike]

778, you had me chuckling here (thanks!) and I think you were being sort of tongue in cheek regarding lists and so on, but this sort of sensitivity pops up on the forum from time to time...and I think I'm more concerned about members worrying about being included on "lists" than I am the hypothetical lists themselves.

I'm trying to imagine how this might work as it might apply to this thread, and I keep envisioning a dapper Englishman relaying info to a woman secretary dressed in retro 70's gear, pecking away at an antiquated typewriter...

Man: (clears throat) put Chinaski down as a yes, he would sacrifice himself for his ideals, but only if torture was not involved...

Woman: shall I make a 3rd column then sir, titled "yes, but with conditions"?

Man: a wonderful idea Mary!

Woman: because most all participants have conditions...

Man: indeed they do!

Woman: and what does that prove sir?

Man: that the 30 or so participants on the Avalon forum don't deal in absolutes when nuance is required!

Woman: its groundbreaking sir! Now how shall we use this against them?

Man: groundbreaking Indeed!!! Use it against them? Well I was planning on just whispering it into the wind Mary...

Woman: brilliant sir!



I reckon 75% of the time we are our own greatest enemies here.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

778, you had me chuckling here (thanks!) and I think you were being sort of tongue in cheek regarding lists and so on, but this sort of sensitivity pops up on the forum from time to time...and I think I'm more concerned about members worrying about being included on "lists" than I am the hypothetical lists themselves.

I'm trying to imagine how this might work as it might apply to this thread, and I keep envisioning a dapper Englishman relaying info to a woman secretary dressed in retro 70's gear, pecking away at an antiquated typewriter...

Man: (clears throat) put Chinaski down as a yes, he would sacrifice himself for his ideals, but only if torture was not involved...

Woman: shall I make a 3rd column then sir, titled "yes, but with conditions"?

Man: a wonderful idea Mary!

Woman: because most all participants have conditions...

Man: indeed they do!

Woman: and what does that prove sir?

Man: that the 30 or so participants on the Avalon forum don't deal in absolutes when nuance is required!

Woman: its groundbreaking sir! Now how shall we use this against them?

Man: groundbreaking Indeed!!! Use it against them? Well I was planning on just whispering it into the wind Mary...

Woman: brilliant sir!



I reckon 75% of the time we are our own greatest enemies here.

Hi Mike, yeah it was meant to be tongue in cheek, or was it?

I am very aware that forums such as this one are NOT just OUR playground where WE are the only ones test ballooning, ideas, concepts, thought experiments, the last thing we need are dead heroes, as we all know we could sure use about 7 billion LIVE ones, most dead dudes in general don't shovel sh!t, they turn into sh!t.


Oh man, this is just discussion. Why to interpret the question like that?

I apologize if it offended you.

Hi Uptolight, I was not offended, but keep in mind your own question, you yourself seem to have conditions in regard of your own question, I have the same conditions and maybe even some questions, life is not TV, for every hero shown, thousands have died in vain, this is where the math stops to add up imo, would I give my sister my kidney if and when required, sure, unless it kills me that is.

Many burn victims are firemen who saved people, the chrushing emotions of guilt and gratitude of the saved ones must be mind and soulmurder, just test ballooning the responses of my own conscience here, because I can ask myself these questions, I have the same questions when I think of that Jesus chap, so would I sacrifice my life, depends on a lot, if the occasion would arise I doubt I would call it sacrifice, it would probably be stupid, suicidal, ignorant, impulsive blahblah, if I would get out of that situation alive OTHERS might call me a hero but I wouldn't, I'd be sh!tting myself for months wondering what the hell went through my mind. I can imagine how being a so called hero could seriously could f*ck one up for life.

SO, not an easy question, what would be YOUR conditions if I may ask so, you did not share these.

[Mike]

"Dead dudes don't shovel sh#t, they turn into sh#t."

Brilliant!

Is that a 778 original? Brother that would make an epic signature.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

"Dead dudes don't shovel sh#t, they turn into sh#t."

Brilliant!

Is that a 778 original? Brother that would make an epic signature.

Ghehehe, nah, just one of those lucky very unfortunate spontaneous yet very true originals, another heroic epic one liner is born, see, that's why the human race needs as many life guys and girls as possible, dead dudes don't say sh!t like that.;)

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

You guys, there are places out there like 4Chan and stuff, and you are worried about watch lists based on morality plays.

LOL