Dog life vs human life.

[GNC Harteveld]

I've always felt that you can't put the life of an animal over the life of a person. Even if it would be Adolf Hitler versus my dog it would be byby doggy. It's just a matter of principles.
So i have a dog and it cost's me about 2.5 euros (3.5 dollars) a day only to feed him.
It's not even a large dog but it has a very expensive taste, you could call him spoiled. I tried cheaper food but he will just ignore it for days on end untill i feed him his favorite food.
Now i've been thinking, 10% of the human population has to live of less than 2.5 dollars a day. Should i get rid of my dog and feed these people?

[Becky]

That's an interesting question, my gut reaction of course would be no. He's your dog and your responsibility and his life is worth a lot. By 'get rid' do you mean give him to someone else who can easily afford him?

I think dogs are very special creatures with very special souls who are here on our journey with us. My gut instinct is to say do not undervalue him.
I am coming from the perspective of someone who has 2 dogs and loves them.
It is honourable to think about paying for someone else's food - someone who's less fortunate than you :-)

Looking forward to hear what others think.
Becky xx

[GreenGuy]

So i have a dog...

So how did you come by this dog? We take on a responsibility, you know. A dog is a sentient being, a living soul. How we treat them shows a lot about how we see ourselves and others. And how did this dog of yours come by its expensive tastes? Most dogs are actually not very picky eaters. The don't chew their food much but swallow it pretty much whole. They don't savor flavors and tastes like you or I would. A lot of it is about smell. With a little bit of experimentation you should be able to find cheaper food that your dog will accept. Boiled chicken is cheap and I never knew a dog to turn that down. In any event, he won't starve himself to death.

Do you love your dog? Does he bring you joy? Is his companionship something that adds quality to your life? If so, how would you feel about yourself if you got rid of him? And how would you go about doing that?

You could feed a few people for the hundred bucks or so per month you're currently spending on your dog. But you'd not be able to feed the world. Balance out the benefits, to yourself, to the dog, and to the world.

I have a dog that I inherited from an old lady who could no longer take care of her. I promised to give her a good home, and I have. She's been with me for seven years. We've never really bonded. Misty is conniving and manipulative, and she barks too much. She's cute and fluffy and my wife likes her. It's enough; I wouldn't get rid of her. I also have a cat that I rescued from traffic when she was a kitten. Poko is completely bonded to me, loves me, charms me, and doesn't like to let me out of her sight. Both animals in their own way make me a kinder and better person. I think animals add a valuable dimension to our lives.

And I'm not sure I agree that there are no people I'd let starve while I continued to feed my dog. I hope I never have to make that choice.

[GNC Harteveld]

I got the dog from a neighbor with psychiatric problems who got it from a couple who divorced, she didn't want the dog because it barks a few times when someone walks by the apartment. She asked me to post on a online auction site to find it a home for free. the first person who called i got a weird vibe from so i told that person the dog was already gone. I guess giving something for free attracts weird people, so i kept him.
It's a great dog, i have it for some 5 years now and it learns quicky. Trained it in less than a day to not poop on the stoop and it only runs after cats after the command 'kssst'. :) He mostly walk without a leash next to me even though it's obliged by law (f* that), police here work 9 to 5.
I love my dog and couldn't harm him if i wanted to but you still wonder, is this right?

[161803398]

I think you should start by asking questions like "why does the dog exist then? if he doesn't deserve to eat properly" or "is the solution to starving people, taking food away from animals?....is there another solution?...what is the source of the problem about feeding the world? Can you help fix the real problem?

[Lifebringer]

Pets are binded souls to the human to allow emotions of love, compassion and comfort in times of trouble or sadness. They serve a very good purpose as companions to humans and when someone can't have a child, the ability to have a loved one that loves unconditionally once the bond is formed, is a blessing for us all.

[Lifebringer]

Sounds like your a team already in a bond. It would really destroy this pet's sense of security, to turn him over because there are poor humans. How about, you both forgo on one of the "spoiled treats" lol, and donate the money to a child charity that feeds or "doctors without borders" or educational or water well program to sustain the many from dehydration and bad water. Then you both can cuddle up with a good movie and be glad you helped so many. It feels good and I heard that the wells only cost 38 dollars in labor to drill the hole and place the pump pipe. A lot of catastophies happen and they trouble our souls as to doing more to help, but a little from a lot of people goes a long way to sustainability for the poor, if people but put the money to better use in "food, clothing, shelter and education" for all the future generation's children, as they will have command of the future and we aren't immortal. It is our duty, but we must also have the reward of someone or something loving us in the physical world, to be whole. Be grateful for the big fellow, and put your head on his head and think it out together. He or she can feel you and they are spiritual, so they are willing to do whatever makes you happy as you care for them in their lives.


Try "Care2Care" they are great at all this and I think they have a goat or sheep buying for like 35 dollars so they can have wool and milk for the babies if they are farmers in the fields. The women are really trying to stick to the "earthly qualities bestowed upon us" to keep balance, but it's tilted helter skelter in some areas, and something as simple as clean water can ease a lot of water war tensions between the animals and humans.

[guido]

Imho no need to get rid of the dog. To get fined by the police when your dog is unleashed is something around 70 euro here in amsterdam. In your case thats around 28 days of dogfood.


What did you already try to make a change for this possible picky behavior of the dog?

I suppose you've been to a vet or/and checked the difference of this food you gave and wanted to give.


If the foods are healhty and the dog does not have any disease of problems with it's teeth than its very possible that its picky behavoir.

You can try his/her food half an hour down and take it away if he/she does not eat. Put the food back when it is time for his next meal and take it again after a half hour away . After a day or two your dog can go prowling for extra treats . Give him not and stick to your schedule . Your dog does not die of hunger . If he is hungry, he'll eat. It may be that you will be faced with some complaining.


If you would like to make changes in your dog's food you should do it gradually . Starting by mixing a small amount of the new food with the old food and gradually increase the amount of the new food while reducing the amount of the old food . This will help you to get used to the new food and hunger prevent your dog. If you switch from wet food to dry food , try to mix . Warm water with dry feed Let the wet food are not too long outside because it can spoil, especially in hot weather.

If this good be a solution for you and the dog than you have a nice possibility for donating the difference in the prices of the dog food to whatever you would like.

:juggle:

[Robin]

I've always felt that you can't put the life of an animal over the life of a person. Even if it would be Adolf Hitler versus my dog it would be byby doggy. It's just a matter of principles.


This came across as very startling to me. Not so much because you would choose Hitler, but that you would choose any human life over a dog. To me, humans are not superior to dogs. Actually, looking at the the history of humanity...I'd say that dogs have more of a right to live on this planet than humans do! They don't fight wars; They only know love and balance.

Dogs can be vegetarians without any problems at all. If you feed your dog only vegetables, though the right quantity and variety, maybe you would spend less money?

Anyway, the way I see it is that humans have tinkered with evolution by domesticating cats and dogs, so we are responsible for our creation. You chose to have a dog, and it would be an atrocity to simply say that you cannot take care of it anymore. It's quite irresponsible...we're not talking about a used cell phone; We're talking about another living being. I hope that you take responsibility for your actions in deciding to take care of another intelligent being.

I would also agree in other members' comments that by us giving a high level of self-awareness to dogs, we have created a vessel for souls to advance. Dogs are on a lower rung on the ladder of a soul journey, but no less significant.

Honestly, I fill up with great sadness whenever I see an innocent dog die in a movie...especially by the hands of men. I don't get the same feeling of people.

:faint:

[Snowflower]

I disagree that dogs can be vegetarian and remain in good health: their digestive system is designed for meat, bones, and organs- all animal food. They can stay alive on vegetarian food, but that doesn't mean they are healthy.

As for the value of human over animal, perhaps there is another kind of measurement: compassion over cruelty. To be compassionate toward ANY creation, be it mineral, vegetable, animal, or human, versus being cruel toward that creature. Would you destroy a tree just because you could? Would you hit rocks with a hammer and crush them into gravel just because you could? Would you beat on a dog just because you could? That is hurting for nothing more than the power surge, and is every bit as heinous as hurting another human just because you can.

The dog costs $3.50 to feed - and a cup of coffee costs $3.50 from Starbucks, or any other example that comes to mind of a personal pleasure that costs about the same. So, keep the dog, reduce some personal pleasure from your own life, and feed another human. Win-win all around.

[Abhaya]

IMHO dogs and people are both equally potentially perfect consciousness, being expressed and filtered through different material vessels and thereby limited accordingly.

The human incarnation allows us greater heights of "good and evil" as we are able to go bigger either in kindness or selfishness due to the power of the intellect. Dogs are more of an innocent party as reaction and instinct hold more sway over them then rational thought and choice. They do have some limited ability in those departments however. We should be careful not to place value on an individual based on its intellectual levels. Intellect is really only an ability/skill and not a decider of worth. The choices we make are going to be more telling.

If we decide that a humans life is always better then a dogs life because of its superior intellect, then we eventually reach a grey area that breaks down this theory. That is when you have a severely mentally challenged person, who will often have a less gifted intellect and ability to share and give love then many of the higher animals. You now would have to invent some other tangent method of placement to keep this theory viable.

This is not to say that mentally challenged people are "less then" animals. Only that both are equally perfect in potential

If u want a glimpse at just what is going on inside animals heads, then You have to watch this jaw dropping, tear jerking, inspirational, free documentary posted by agape on this thread here

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65587-The-Animal-Communicator&p=759885&viewfull=1#post759885

No dog has ever reached the level of evil as someone like hitler. They simply don't have the intellect to construct and hold on to so much hatred. And if there were an interspecies court of law, (which there is in karma) then hitler would have earned the death penalty 100s of times over what any dog ever could.

I would say if you do get rid of the dog then be sure it is going somewhere else where it will be cared for. Because if u "get rid of the dog" somewhere where it will suffer then this is not a way to serve the bigger picture in being as kind as you can. We take a responsibility when we take a pet in. Often we can do greater kindness by focusing on loving one thing rather then ambiguously giving a donation somewhere to a broader cause.

[Orph]

Life isn't perfect, and there are no perfect answers. We do the best we can. I posed this to myself once, ..... if I were to win the lottery, I could give every dime of it to help the homeless and the needy. But even if I did that, there would still be needy homeless people. My point is, you can't save the world. At this point in time you have a dog. If you bring love and caring to the dog, (or any animal), you're bringing love into the world. And that's always a good thing.

[ghostrider]

at least my dogs don't hold grudges and love unconditional , can't say the same about some humans ... if it came down to my dogs or a human , hmmm , and insane human may have a problem ...

[Abhaya]

http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o523/zmw4/6b36356e60aaa18f7a8f47edb9caad51.jpg
Then there's this :)

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

As a former farm kid who saw many pets shot "because we couldn't feed them", I would say, do not feel bad about rescuing and feeding that dog.

Domesticated dogs would not exist if people hadn't taken wolves out of the wild.
You didn't do that to the dogs -- our ancestors did -- you're simply providing him with a home.

However, if you feel that you would be freer to help a wider range of beings without a pet to care for, there is undoubtedly someone special out there who would love to adopt your dog.

Adopting an animal out requires a measure of trust in other people. It's not easy to let a loved one go, but a dog is a very big responsibility as he will never be independent of his master (unlike a human).

Dogs are amazing animals, but perhaps a very good example of why taking animals out of the wild is neither humane nor a very good idea.
They become utterly dependent on us, both for food and for meaning in their lives.

Wild animals know what life is about. We haven't taken that sense away from them and enslaved them.

I don't know how old a dog can be and still receive therapy animal training, but that is a wonderful idea if your dog likes strangers, elderly, or kids.
If he tolerated the psychiatric problems of the former owner, he might very well tolerate a diverse range of people.

When I was in a hospital once, there was a picture of the therapy dog on our wall, and I was so sad that no one ever brought the dog to see us in there.

Something to consider.

[Kalamos]

..........

[Ellisa]

Lots of things to consider here.

A dog will usually eat anything and everything! Unlike cats, who are carnivores, dogs are omnivores- as are we. Dry dog food ids cheap and very good for dogs, and they really will eat if they are hungry. If not, they probably need a health check. As my mother once remarked to me, when she was a girl all pets had to eat were the leftovers of their owners' meals and possibly a bone now and then. Maybe they were not so expensive under those conditions.

Should you toss out the dog? Well I think if you can, for a moment, contemplate that, then maybe you should. If this dog had injured someone the answer would be different, but this animal just seems to be annoying you because he needs maintaining, and this is in some way connected to famine in the Third World . I feel it is a good example of why we should give pet ownership really serious consideration before we decide to share our lives with an animal who will require our commitment forever.

Finally Abhaya's post sums up what I want to say next. It has often been shown that the companionship and love of a pet helps people of all ages and situations cope. It gives them a reason to keep going, a need to consider another living being than themselves and to experience the sharing of a loving friendship. It is a privilege to be part of a dog's life and dogs, often , help people to remain part of society and cope better with problems they would otherwise find overwhelming.

[Milneman]

If I told you to cook the dog and feed it to a hungry person, what would you do?

"Food" for thought. Take the dog with you, get thyn hiney to a soup kitchen, and help feed some actual poor people instead of wondering if you should help. Even better, take some food to a homeless shelter and feed someone.

Just sayin. ;) When you place yourself in the poverty and just treat the people in poverty with dignity, love, respect, talk with them, give them a smile, you will understand the answer to your question in a completely different way. Trust me.

[Akasha]

I disagree that dogs can be vegetarian and remain in good health: their digestive system is designed for meat, bones, and organs- all animal food. They can stay alive on vegetarian food, but that doesn't mean they are healthy.


Check this article (http://thevegantruth.blogspot.hu/2013/01/dogs-that-eat-vegan-directory.html) out.

Our previous dog wasn't on a plant-based diet and his last couple of years were plagued with chronic arthritis. It was miserable all round......

......so we've put our new dog on a plant-based diet. In the transitional period he was leaving the animal-based dry dog food in the bowl and only eating the vegan dry dog food.

[Abhaya]

I disagree that dogs can be vegetarian and remain in good health: their digestive system is designed for meat, bones, and organs- all animal food. They can stay alive on vegetarian food, but that doesn't mean they are healthy.


Check this article (http://thevegantruth.blogspot.hu/2013/01/dogs-that-eat-vegan-directory.html) out.

Our previous dog wasn't on a plant-based diet and his last couple of years were plagued with chronic arthritis. It was miserable all round......

......so we've put our new dog on a plant-based diet. In the transitional period he was leaving the animal-based dry dog food in the bowl and only eating the vegan dry dog food.


Hey that's pretty cool. Actually wasn't aware that dogs could be so successful on a vegan diet!

Now if a dog can do it then what's our excuse :p

[confused]

Domesticated dogs would not exist if people hadn't taken wolves out of the wild.
You didn't do that to the dogs -- our ancestors did -- you're simply providing him with a home.

......

Dogs are amazing animals, but perhaps a very good example of why taking animals out of the wild is neither humane nor a very good idea.
They become utterly dependent on us, both for food and for meaning in their lives.

Wild animals know what life is about. We haven't taken that sense away from them and enslaved them.


This is not necessarily true. Read this blog post (http://darrennaish.blogspot.com/2006/10/controversial-origins-of-domestic-dog.html) by a qualified zoologist if you are interested. Presents some solid points and overlooked research disputing the wolf domesticated by humans hypothesis, and rather that dogs are actually ancestors of a much older pre-wolf canid that had already diverged separately into wolf and wild dogs before humans had anything to do with it.

The evolution between man and modern dog may have really been a much more natural and symbiotic progression, much like bees and flowers. I've always believed that many people are genetically predisposed to be attracted (not romantically!) to dogs and that our co-evolution is the cause. This is, of course, just my belief.

[Abhaya]

Domesticated dogs would not exist if people hadn't taken wolves out of the wild.
You didn't do that to the dogs -- our ancestors did -- you're simply providing him with a home.

......

Dogs are amazing animals, but perhaps a very good example of why taking animals out of the wild is neither humane nor a very good idea.
They become utterly dependent on us, both for food and for meaning in their lives.

Wild animals know what life is about. We haven't taken that sense away from them and enslaved them.


This is not necessarily true. Read this blog post (http://darrennaish.blogspot.com/2006/10/controversial-origins-of-domestic-dog.html) by a qualified zoologist if you are interested. Presents some solid points and overlooked research disputing the wolf domesticated by humans hypothesis, and rather that dogs are actually ancestors of a much older pre-wolf canid that had already diverged separately into wolf and wild dogs before humans had anything to do with it.

The evolution between man and modern dog may have really been a much more natural and symbiotic progression, much like bees and flowers. I've always believed that many people are genetically predisposed to be attracted (not romantically!) to dogs and that our co-evolution is the cause. This is, of course, just my belief.

Very cool! Well i must say this theory resonates a lot better with me. Makes me want to go rescue a dog my self! If I only weren't traveling all the time.....

[Ron Mauer Sr]

http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o523/zmw4/6b36356e60aaa18f7a8f47edb9caad51.jpg
Then there's this :)

I've heard many times, "Love is the only answer."

Does it matter if the object of love is a person, animal or place? I do not think so. The important thing is to love as much as one can.

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