Can a dead person visit here in the body?

[Crystine]

This is a difficult story to tell. I have no pattern to follow.

Early this past spring we were shopping for a new computer. While talking to a sales person I noticed a young person close by. He was very intent on our conversation. Eventually he joined in it.
Then he wandered away. Both my husband and I commented that he was strange.
I looked up, he was back again. We chatted for a bit.
Talked about little stuff. You know hometown, high school etc.

He was maybe in his early 20s. Nice looking., though needing a shower and some fresh clothes.

He told us he graduated but was not allowed to have his picture taken. I asked him where he graduated from. He hesitated for a moment......then he said the name of the same high school I graduated from.

He was very friendly. And shy at the same time. Eventually I learned he had just been released. I asked from where. He hesitated for words.....,,,then said jail.

He said he had made some big mistakes. Then he was gone again. For about 1/2 hour.

I looked up and he was near us again. He wanted to talk, we got to the subject of Facebook. He was also looking for a computer. He did say he had a Facebook page, but that the terms of his release did not allow him to use it. Or any other social media.

He was on probation. Just looking at a computer for when he could have one again.

He told me his name.

So of course I went home and looked him up. He looked exactly like the young man at the store. Same age. Same hair. Same jacket. Same hat. Same scruffy facial hair.

I really never thought about this Occurrance again. Until a couple of weeks ago. Someone made a post. I was not familiar with the person she referred to. So I googled the name.

I cannot even begin to relate my reaction.

I need to get the post in question. And this young mans photo. Then I hope someone has something to say as to what the heck happened.

[Crystine]

Here is the excerpt from the original post.
By mariposa


Join Date
12th April 2011
Location
Nowhere
Age
55
Posts

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Thanked 6,303 times in 1,138 posts
Re: Who are your heroes?


Well, I prefer to be my own hero, though not a very good one !! The top 5 people I most admire would be, in no particular order :

Che Guevarra - saw the injustices heaped upon the people of his continent and did something about it, sacrificing his career as a doctor.

The young man from the store.

[Becky]

Sounds intriguing!

[Crystine]

Intriguing. A good way to put it. Needs attention. This may be something that happens often. But the person involved is not a recognizable figure. So the phenomena goes unnoticed. Maybe this came together, here at Avalon, for a reason. When I look back, this young man seemed LOST.

[Becky]

Hi Christine, I sent my post after i only saw your first post...this need more research, but is really interesting. And there's no way he could be a doppleganger/identical lookalike? His behaviour with you was unusual and attention seeking in a way.
Best wishes,
becky

[Crystine]

I realized at the time, he was odd. He was rather cryptic. He answered my questions but in a very cautious manner. I think this comes down to either he is who he is. Or I am making this up. No........,, I am not. Way too complicated.

[Snowflower]

Am I putting this together right? Christine, you had a conversation in a store with a person that turns out to look exactly like Che Guevarra? Was the name he gave you different and was it that different name that was in the yearbook?

[Crystine]

Yes, Snowflower, you have it right.
But I did not know this at the time. I only felt an incredible urge to be kind. Plus he kept on disappearing. At the time I thought, just like anyone else in a store. He has just went to browse elsewhere. But I had a feeling something was strange. I kept on looking for him. Nothing. Then he would be there asking questions again.

He gave his name as Fred. But his outfit, hair , hat. Everything was the same as the picture of Che Guevarra. Maybe this young man idolized Che. I really don't know. But Che, was the Facebook picture. They could have been twins. Now this happened back in March or so. I only knew him as Fred. It was only after I researched mariposa s post that I was brought back to this young man. I had not Even thought about him much after I looked him up on Facebook.

He said he could not have his picture taken because he was on probation.

[Carmody]

Hi Christine, I sent my post after i only saw your first post...this need more research, but is really interesting. And there's no way he could be a doppleganger/identical lookalike? His behaviour with you was unusual and attention seeking in a way.
Best wishes,
becky

In human avatars, there are only 36 different facial types. The same as the number of decans of astrology. Each of us has a variant of that basic facial type.

Click on my forum name and read my last 4-5 posts.

[Crystine]

Hi Christine, I sent my post after i only saw your first post...this need more research, but is really interesting. And there's no way he could be a doppleganger/identical lookalike? His behaviour with you was unusual and attention seeking in a way.
Best wishes,
becky

In human avatars, there are only 36 different facial types. The same as the number of decans of astrology. Each of us has a variant of that basic facial type.

Click on my forum name and read my last 4-5 posts.

I will read your posts. But it was not his facial type alone. His hair was the same. His facial hair was the same. He was wearing that particular beret. And the same jacket.

[RMorgan]

I will read your posts. But it was not his facial type alone. His hair was the same. His facial hair was the same. He was wearing that particular beret. And the same jacket.

Hello my friend,

Che Guevara is a worldwide famous historical person.

He had become a pop culture icon, so many people dress like him and copy his overall style.

Even if that was possible, I mean, Che Guevara resurrecting, I don't think he would move up there to the US...I don't think he would have a facebook account as well... :)

Raf.

[Crystine]

Walking in is not resurrecting.

Besides, until I read mariposa s post..and her tongue lashing she received. And I googled him. I did not know who he was.

Folks here talk about lizards under the ground. Grey guys poking us with needles. Aliens changing the vibrations of this planet. OBE's. Ndes. Astral projection.

I am not saying I know this was Che. I told to best of my ability what I recall from that day.

Really, lizards wanting to own the earth. But a young fella stumbling around in the ethers after being executed is not possible.

Open, means something here different than what open means to me.

[RMorgan]

Walking in is not resurrecting.

Ok...So, even if Che Guevara decided to come out from wherever he is and "walk in" on Earth again, I think it's very unlikely that he would end up in a computer store in the USA. :)

Again, he's a pop icon. Many people dress and use similar haircut and beard styles, specially young men with left-wing political tendencies.

Raf.

[Crystine]

Maybe he is a newbie. Perhaps Che is learning. Not too much control of where he materializes.

I did not mean to imply he is holy. I was responding to the prior post which stated that even if he did return, it was rather unlikely he would choose a computer store in the US.

I should have simply said, "why not."

[rgray222]

This is a difficult story to tell. I have no pattern to follow.


He said he had made some big mistakes. Then he was gone again. For about 1/2 hour.



I am reluctant to make this post because people may take it the wrong way but my advice to you is to use caution when dealing with this man. One of the conditions of his release appears to be that he cannot use a computer, this suggest a specific crime that is sexual in nature.

If you have more contact with this individual;
You should familiarize yourself with Che Guevara . Che is idolized by millions of people. It has been my observation that the vast majority of people only know that Che was a rebel fighting in Cuba and not much more. Che is in fact revered and reviled and for good reason. He may have started off fighting poverty, illiteracy and a host of other crimes against humanity but by the end he had become someone very different with a very dark side. In many respects he became the enemy of his own ideology.

I am all about second chances but I am also all about using caution when it is necessary.

To answer your question, yes a spirit can certainly "visit" in human form, but to my knowledge not for long.

[Crystine]

Thankyou rgray222 for taking this seriously. I knew nothing about this personality until mariposa's post. I only recognized the face. I do not care to study him or learn more. I was floored when I googled the name Che.

[RMorgan]

Jesus was born in a cave.

Maybe he is a newbie. Perhaps Che is learning. Not too much control of where he materializes.


What's more likely?

a) He was just a guy who looks like Che Guevara.

b) He was the spirit of Che Guevara himself having some fun and talking with strangers about trivial subjects on a computer store.

Just like any investigation, you must first verify the most likely hypothesis and only then move to unusual explanations if necessary.

It doesn't make any sense to jump to the conclusion that the guy was Che Guevara himself while there are much more probable explanations.


Thankyou rgray222 for taking this seriously. I knew nothing about this personality until mariposa's post. I only recognized the face. I do not care to study him or learn more. I was floored when I googled the name Che.

Hey, I really think you should study some history...It's an extremely important discipline.

[Crystine]

You should learn to knit. Maybe learn to cook. Or take care of kids and grand kids. I was telling of something that happened to me. I did not say it was Che . I told my story in the linear way it happened. Had it happened to you ? With no foreknowledge of the historical Che. What would you have thought?

Even if I am fos you are arrogant.

This is an open forum. We all have different gifts and talents. In varying degrees . We are supposed to nurture what is good. And to teach. To guide others. This should not be a contest. Our drive should not be to belittle or demean another.

[Wind]

In human avatars, there are only 36 different facial types. The same as the number of decans of astrology. Each of us has a variant of that basic facial type.

That is extremely interesting. I have noticed a pattern in peoples facial features, because I see many people with the same kind of features... It's funny, it's like that they were made from the same (genetic) tree. Some people have a feline look to them and others reptilianish, but those are just examples.

Also I tend to have a very good face memory. I mean, if I learn someone's name then I will forever remember their face. I've been surprised to know that not everyone has the same ability.

[Crystine]

Myself also. I can name all the faces in my graduating class. In reverse I know the faces to the names. A particular way someone's memory functions. Do you, by chance recall what you have read by where the sentence or word was located on the printed page. I E up down right left or middle of the page. When I am searching through a book for something I have already read. That is what I see. It's location on the page.

[Milneman]

Christine,

Before you move to the conclusion this is...well what it seems to be, make sure you rule out every other rational explanation first. For example, is this a kid who's obsessed with Che who got into some trouble, spotted you and your husband in the store, and just needed to have some human communication with someone who they felt (quite rightly I might add!) was sympathetic, and maybe even having the spark of deep compassion?

Two stories for you. :)

The first comes from a friend of mine, Father Bob M. He spent some time in New York and would often sit in Central Park and just watch people. A homeless woman walked up to him one day and asked, "Excuse me sir, but do you have the time?" So he looked at his watch, told her the time, she said thank you and moved on...to the next person, whom she asked the same question.

When we're in need of human contact, when we're lonely and desperate for...well, love....we reach out in the only way we often know how. I'm not saying you didn't have a visit from beyond. It's not impossible. And if you did, you are one very lucky human being. Think about why he would be talking about you. Be careful who you talk to, and really think deeply about it. It could be it was just a message for you, and that can be a wonderful thing too. :)

The other story...to demonstrate that yeah, sometimes things appear one way and in actuality are something completely different...this is a hard one for me to tell...gets me emotional.

I was in the 7-11 a couple of days ago. There was a woman, much the same as you described, she looked like she could use a shower and a clean change of clothes. She looked at me the moment I walked in, and wouldn't quit looking at me. Which I found a little odd, but whatever. When I was finished filling up my double gulp, I turned around and she was standing there. She said to me, "I'm really sorry to be so forward, but you look exactly like my son."

Wow...I'm thinking...ok, random but ok.

"He died three weeks ago in a car crash...and I didn't get a chance to say goodbye." Now she starts tearing up, and I start feeling a little choked too.

"Could I give you a hug?"

How could I say no!!!! Omg at this point I'm almost weeping. She takes her bags, sniffles a bit, and leaves the store.

So when I go to pay for my double gulp, which should come out to $1.55, the clerk says my bill is $85 and change...and I'm like, HUH? He then tells me my mother said that I would cover her purchases as well.

SO I LOST IT! I dropped my drink on the counter, ran out of the store, and saw her getting into her car...and by this point, I'm really mad! So I open the car door, I'm going to pull her out and take her back into the store and call the cops! She's holding onto the steering wheel really hard, so the only way I can get her out of the car is by grabbing and pulling her leg.

Just like I'm pulling your leg right now. ;)

Believe NOTHING of what you hear and only half of what you see, sis. If you can do that, you'll get through all of this ok. :)

[Crystine]

I can go with what you are suggesting except that in March I did not know anyone named Che ever existed. This has had me thinking since her post in your thread Heros. Thanks for your input. I am really trying to make some sense of all of this stuff. There is so much to learn. My dad always said the same thing about what you should believe. He would also add that just because it made it to a printed page it didnt make it true.

[Zelig]

Obviously, what you experienced was profound for you, and putting that level of profundity into words is/was probably impossible. I have no answers or explanations for what occurred but I'm hoping that your mind remains open to the possibility of it being something surreal. It's predictable for people reading your story to immediately apply standard logic and science to come up with a mundane explanation for it. Someone above suggested that you focus on finding a rational explanation but I wish you'd instead just let yourself accept your personal interpretation of it rather than dilute it with the limiting logic that has been systematically force-fed to us all. I lived the first 90% of my life firmly believing in things being firmly real and am only now becoming aware of how truly intriguing life and all its weirdness is.

Cheers to weirdness!

[Crystine]

Obviously, what you experienced was profound for you, and putting that level of profundity into words is/was probably impossible. I have no answers or explanations for what occurred but I'm hoping that your mind remains open to the possibility of it being something surreal. It's predictable for people reading your story to immediately apply standard logic and science to come up with a mundane explanation for it. Someone above suggested that you focus on finding a rational explanation but I wish you'd instead just let yourself accept your personal interpretation of it rather than dilute it with the limiting logic that has been systematically force-fed to us all. I lived the first 90% of my life firmly believing in things being firmly real and am only now becoming aware of how truly intriguing life and all its weirdness is.

Cheers to weirdness!

Zelig

Thankyou you for your advice. You are at the very least allowing something off beat may have occurred. I think some of the others did not pay attention to the fact......that when I met this young man........I had absolutely no idea who Che was.

Che was not a name in my Conciousness until several days ago. Whatever, I find it strange, that in a place that touts the acceptance of strangeness........something of this nature is considered somewhat nutty.

I thought I put the story forth about as simply as I could.

Maybe what used to be fringe has become acceptable. And a new take on what fringe means might be necessary. As soon as enough people accept something. As in all the various beliefs here at Avalon. Time for the ripples to move outward again.

I hope I didn't screw up what I was trying to say too bad.

I am thankful that you are allowing for this to be outside of the box.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Obviously, what you experienced was profound for you, and putting that level of profundity into words is/was probably impossible. I have no answers or explanations for what occurred but I'm hoping that your mind remains open to the possibility of it being something surreal. It's predictable for people reading your story to immediately apply standard logic and science to come up with a mundane explanation for it. Someone above suggested that you focus on finding a rational explanation but I wish you'd instead just let yourself accept your personal interpretation of it rather than dilute it with the limiting logic that has been systematically force-fed to us all. I lived the first 90% of my life firmly believing in things being firmly real and am only now becoming aware of how truly intriguing life and all its weirdness is.

Cheers to weirdness!

Zelig

Thankyou you for your advice. You are at the very least allowing something off beat may have occurred. I think some of the others did not pay attention to the fact......that when I met this young man........I had absolutely no idea who Che was.

Che was not a name in my Conciousness until several days ago. Whatever, I find it strange, that in a place that touts the acceptance of strangeness........something of this nature is considered somewhat nutty.

I thought I put the story forth about as simply as I could.

Maybe what used to be fringe has become acceptable. And a new take on what fringe means might be necessary. As soon as enough people accept something. As in all the various beliefs here at Avalon. Time for the ripples to move outward again.

I hope I didn't screw up what I was trying to say too bad.

I am thankful that you are allowing for this to be outside of the box.🍻have a tiny beer.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Obviously, what you experienced was profound for you, and putting that level of profundity into words is/was probably impossible. I have no answers or explanations for what occurred but I'm hoping that your mind remains open to the possibility of it being something surreal. It's predictable for people reading your story to immediately apply standard logic and science to come up with a mundane explanation for it. Someone above suggested that you focus on finding a rational explanation but I wish you'd instead just let yourself accept your personal interpretation of it rather than dilute it with the limiting logic that has been systematically force-fed to us all. I lived the first 90% of my life firmly believing in things being firmly real and am only now becoming aware of how truly intriguing life and all its weirdness is.

Cheers to weirdness!

Zelig

Thankyou you for your advice. You are at the very least allowing something off beat may have occurred. I think some of the others did not pay attention to the fact......that when I met this young man........I had absolutely no idea who Che was.

Che was not a name in my Conciousness until several days ago. Whatever, I find it strange, that in a place that touts the acceptance of strangeness........something of this nature is considered somewhat nutty.

I thought I put the story forth about as simply as I could.

Maybe what used to be fringe has become acceptable. And a new take on what fringe means might be necessary. As soon as enough people accept something. As in all the various beliefs here at Avalon. Time for the ripples to move outward again.

I hope I didn't screw up what I was trying to say too bad.

I am thankful that you are allowing for this to be outside of the box.🍻have a tiny beer.

[cloud9]

Hi Christine,
I just want to ask you this: You said that the guy at the store gave you his name and when you went home you looked him up in the yearbook... what you are saying is that the yearbook's photo matching the name he gave you is the same as the very well known picture of the Che Guevara? Or is the guy in the picture similar to the Che? Also, I'm guessing you didn't know this man from your high school because the two of you didn't graduated the same year, right? Did he go to the same school but in a different time?

I'm guessing you live in the States and you went to high school how many years ago? Also, how many years ago this guy graduated from high school? Sorry, I'm kind of confused with this one.... is there a way you could scan the yearbook's picture?
El Che was born in Argentina and he died in Bolivia, I think he didn't speak English but I can be very wrong as he was an educated man and a physician.

I'm not saying that you didn't see what you saw but somehow I tend to believe what happened is more as RMorgan says, the guy from your same high school looked like El Che (rebellious, imitating an icon) even since he was very young and he has kept this "style" through the years....

[Crystine]

Hi Christine,
I just want to ask you this: You said that the guy at the store gave you his name and when you went home you looked him up in the yearbook... what you are saying is that the yearbook's photo matching the name he gave you is the same as the very well known picture of the Che Guevara? Or is the guy in the picture similar to the Che? Also, I'm guessing you didn't know this man from your high school because the two of you didn't graduated the same year, right? Did he go to the same school but in a different time?

I'm guessing you live in the States and you went to high school how many years ago? Also, how many years ago this guy graduated from high school? Sorry, I'm kind of confused with this one.... is there a way you could scan the yearbook's picture?
El Che was born in Argentina and he died in Bolivia, I think he didn't speak English but I can be very wrong as he was an educated man and a physician.

I'm not saying that you didn't see what you saw but somehow I tend to believe what happened is more as RMorgan says, the guy from your same high school looked like El Che (rebellious, imitating an icon) even since he was very young and he has kept this "style" through the years....

I do not know what happened. But I think it amazing,considering the things people at Avalon espouse to believe, that it would be necessary for an entity from the other side to speak any particular language. I graduated many years ago. He was dead before I graduated. I will say this again. When I met him. I did not know him. I checked out his Facebook page. And I recognized him as the person from the store. End of that story.
Then a few days ago, on Milnemans thread who your Heros. Marisposafe( forgive me for screwing up your name.)named Che as one of her Heros. I did not know who he was. So I googled the name Che. When I saw the picture, I came close to feinting.

[Bill Ryan]

------

Occam's Razor. (That's another way of asking: "What's most likely?")

http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/scientific-experiments/occams-razor.htm

How Occam's Razor Works



You've probably heard it before: The simplest explanation is usually the right one. Detectives use it to deduce who's the likeliest suspect in a murder case -- you know, the butler did it. Doctors ­use it to determine the illness behind a set of symptoms.

This line of reasoning is called Occam's razor. It's used in a wide variety of ways throughout the world (http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/scientific-experiments/399711:0) as a means to slice through a problem or situation and eliminate unnecessary elements. But what we call the razor is a little different than what its author originally wrote. There are two parts that are considered the basis of Occam's razor, and they were originally written in Latin:


The Principle of Plurality - Plurality should not be posited without necessity.
The Principle of Parsimony - It is pointless to do with more what is done with less.

***

Occam's Razor very strongly suggests this was someone impersonating him and having some fun, or who was (maybe more likely) on drugs.

And the real Che Guevara didn't speak English, and wanted nothing to do with America or Americans.

In answer to your question "Can a dead person visit here in the body?" -- the anser is no. Only in bad movies! If Che came back, he would be back in spirit (occupying a new body) and would no doubt be intent on continuing his revolutionary mission.

To quote Monty Python: this is silly.

[Crystine]

Silly? No one is listening. This has gotten twisted. I asked if it was possible for someone who is dead to appear in the flesh. In the store that day. I did not meet Che. I met a scruffy looking young man. My husband, myself and the sales person all talked to him. I am not going to rehash it all. He had absolutely no significance to me that day in march. Spring came and went. Fast forward to a few days ago and marisafe post concerning Che. The comment made to her was very sharp. So I googled the name. Che. I was taken aback when I saw Che's picture. It was the same picture as the Facebook post.

I did not say I met Che. But that picture sure gave me pause.

What is simpler a person stepping through the veil.
Or a young man, who doesn't know me. Getting dressed in that hat and jacket. Growing a scruffy look a like beard. The setting off for the local best buy. Looking for a nice couple and a salesperson to be his target. And then have some fun.
We did not have fun. We chatted in the aisle for a few minutes. He seemed sad. Not enjoying himself.
Maybe he was just lonely. Who knows. He never told me anything about who he was. Only that he had made some serious mistakes. So he was not allowed to graduate. He could not own a computer or have his picture taken. No, he was not having fun. Besides he had no idea I would come accross the photo he used for his Facebook picture some eight months later. That scenario is much more complicated than a simple visit from the other side. At any rate I hope the young man in question, learned his lesson and is once more a productive happy person.

[Tangri]

Hi Christine, I sent my post after i only saw your first post...this need more research, but is really interesting. And there's no way he could be a doppleganger/identical lookalike? His behaviour with you was unusual and attention seeking in a way.
Best wishes,
becky

In human avatars, there are only 36 different facial types. The same as the number of decans of astrology. Each of us has a variant of that basic facial type.

Click on my forum name and read my last 4-5 posts.

"In human avatars, there are only 36 different facial types"
If your claimed theses is correct then face recognition based on a flaw purpose.
Do not underestimate earth's gene pool.

[Crystine]

I did that . I could not find any posts about facial patterns. But I know this. Not by those terms. My family kids around that God only has so many cookie cutters.

[Carmody]

In human avatars, there are only 36 different facial types. The same as the number of decans of astrology. Each of us has a variant of that basic facial type.

That is extremely interesting. I have noticed a pattern in peoples facial features, because I see many people with the same kind of features... It's funny, it's like that they were made from the same (genetic) tree. Some people have a feline look to them and others reptilianish, but those are just examples.

Also I tend to have a very good face memory. I mean, if I learn someone's name then I will forever remember their face. I've been surprised to know that not everyone has the same ability.

When I say 36 different facial types for human avatars, I should clarify.

Not speculation in what most folks call 'science'. Not some bit I read about on some website, proto-time historical timelines... or heard at a seance, or channeled. That tidbit IS from modern science.

It just happens to be the same as the number of decans in astrology. They are 10 degree groupings, three of them for each sign in astrology.

Most 'folks', or integrated beings, call them 'people'. I call them avatars. The body being separate from self. Most folks cannot dissolve their ego's grip on the consciousness window well enough to understand this... and suffer panic and near insanity attacks when they try.. (going clear is hard work!)

[ghostrider]

everyone has a twin ...it's my opinion , the clone conspiracy is deeper than we know ...

[Crystine]

Hi Christine, I sent my post after i only saw your first post...this need more research, but is really interesting. And there's no way he could be a doppleganger/identical lookalike? His behaviour with you was unusual and attention seeking in a way.
Best wishes,
becky

In human avatars, there are only 36 different facial types. The same as the number of decans of astrology. Each of us has a variant of that basic facial type.

Click on my forum name and read my last 4-5 posts.

I believe you carmody. I just could not find your last several posts. And I am out of town. At a hotel. So a lot of on line searching is not too practical. If I were home I would google what your are saying about 36 facial types. And their corresponding to to astrology information. You can pm me if you would like. What you are telling me is very interesting.

[Milneman]

------

Occam's Razor. (That's another way of asking: "What's most likely?")

http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/scientific-experiments/occams-razor.htm

How Occam's Razor Works



You've probably heard it before: The simplest explanation is usually the right one. Detectives use it to deduce who's the likeliest suspect in a murder case -- you know, the butler did it. Doctors ­use it to determine the illness behind a set of symptoms.

This line of reasoning is called Occam's razor. It's used in a wide variety of ways throughout the world (http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/scientific-experiments/399711:0) as a means to slice through a problem or situation and eliminate unnecessary elements. But what we call the razor is a little different than what its author originally wrote. There are two parts that are considered the basis of Occam's razor, and they were originally written in Latin:


The Principle of Plurality - Plurality should not be posited without necessity.
The Principle of Parsimony - It is pointless to do with more what is done with less.

***

Occam's Razor very strongly suggests this was someone impersonating him and having some fun, or who was (maybe more likely) on drugs.

And the real Che Guevara didn't speak English, and wanted nothing to do with America or Americans.

In answer to your question "Can a dead person visit here in the body?" -- the anser is no. Only in bad movies! If Che came back, he would be back in spirit (occupying a new body) and would no doubt be intent on continuing his revolutionary mission.

To quote Monty Python: this is silly.

He just made brownie points with me for two reasons....Occam's Razor, AND python in the same post.

CLASS, young man! Class!!

[Bill Ryan]

everyone has a twin ...

Many years ago, my mother encountered my Doppelgänger in a supermarket on the other side of the world from where I was at the time. They were right next to each other in the checkout line.

My mother, who was a remarkably intelligent and perceptive woman, was dumbstruck: this other man looked, dressed, walked, smiled, gestured, and talked EXACTLY like I did. Her great regret was that she never engaged him in conversation to find out who he was and what his life was about. She just stared and stared and was quite unable to speak. For many years afterwards, she enjoyed telling the very interesting story.

[halffull]

Hi Bill

This also happened with a guy named Wes

His mother was in another country and she saw the Doppleganger of her son. Although being shocked she spoke to him and found out that his name was also Wes

To top it all his mothers name was the same as her

I wish your mother had spoken to him---life is indeed very strange

[Limor Wolf]

everyone has a twin ...

Only this week I remembered and documented to my diary two separate occurances which resmbles Bill's mom's story.

A few years ago I was passing a crossroad near a mall in my neighborhood when I suddenly noticed my mother on the other side of the road, only I knew where she was supposed to be at this time and it wasn't there at all. Same walk, same (quite unique) clothes, the same individual way she used to hold her body. I followed her in astonishment, a little bit confused. she looked 100 percent the part, but something in the overall essence was different. When I came back home I phoned my mother who insisted that she was never there.

The second occurance happened (I do not remember if prior to that or after) when surprisingly, on the same crossroad, a woman about my age has stopped me during the crossing and started chatting with me as if she knows me. I did not know her. When I inquired with her where does she knows me from? she looked quite confused and apologetic, said that she is sure that she does and that I look 100 percent like the one she knows.

What made me remember this this week was a short glimpse of a segment I read in the book 'RattleSnake fire' - A memoire of extra dimensional experience' by Jean Ann Eisenhauer

[soulsinger]

Christine Lori, I can imagine that this experience must have been very startling! I, too, would have felt a sense of deep significance, if I were in your place.

Given your statement that the young man was in his early 20s, and from what he said to you in the store, my theory is this:

The young man did, indeed, make mistakes, and was paying for them with jail and probation. He'd committed cyber crimes, such as ID theft, hacking, or stealing, which is the reason he was forbidden to use computers. This also explains why he'd be hanging around in a computer store; he missed using them.

He was a hacker type, and so may have had enthusiasm for the revolutionary spirit of Che Guevara. He may have appreciated his style, and worn similar clothes and hair. He probably even knew how similar was his appearance to the historical revolutionary... hence his posting of the actual photo of Che Guevara as his profile picture on Facebook.

Though his striking similarity to Che's appearance is surprising... the most interesting part of your story (to me) is that you met a young man who had committed serious enough cyber crimes that he'd received jail time and computer-restricted probation. I wonder what age he was when he made those mistakes.... sounds like he was quite young. A very interesting path in life.

[Crystine]

Apparently old enough to be sentenced as an adult. But young enough that he was prevented from graduating. I hope he is improved since then.

[Zelig]

------

Occam's Razor. (That's another way of asking: "What's most likely?")

http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/scientific-experiments/occams-razor.htm

How Occam's Razor Works



You've probably heard it before: The simplest explanation is usually the right one. Detectives use it to deduce who's the likeliest suspect in a murder case -- you know, the butler did it. Doctors ­use it to determine the illness behind a set of symptoms.

This line of reasoning is called Occam's razor. It's used in a wide variety of ways throughout the world (http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/scientific-experiments/399711:0) as a means to slice through a problem or situation and eliminate unnecessary elements. But what we call the razor is a little different than what its author originally wrote. There are two parts that are considered the basis of Occam's razor, and they were originally written in Latin:


The Principle of Plurality - Plurality should not be posited without necessity.
The Principle of Parsimony - It is pointless to do with more what is done with less.

***

Occam's Razor very strongly suggests this was someone impersonating him and having some fun, or who was (maybe more likely) on drugs.

And the real Che Guevara didn't speak English, and wanted nothing to do with America or Americans.

In answer to your question "Can a dead person visit here in the body?" -- the anser is no. Only in bad movies! If Che came back, he would be back in spirit (occupying a new body) and would no doubt be intent on continuing his revolutionary mission.

To quote Monty Python: this is silly.

Adhering to the concepts of Occam's Razor exclusively is like having a toolbox filled with the simplest of tools and firmly believing that any task can be accomplished with the contents. You'll always be right until you open your mind and find out that maybe you were wrong. The 'simplest explanation', the 'lowest common denominator', etc, etc are all limits that we place on our perception and hinder our growth. I am not (and I believe, neither was Christine) suggesting that she encountered Che Guevera, but I'm also not going to trample all over her story and tell her scoldingly, condescendingly to get back in the box and think the kind of thoughts that we all deem acceptable. She had a weird experience that rattled her reality. I think we should be a little more open-minded and considerate when commenting in response.

Your final decree, "In answer to your question "Can a dead person visit here in the body?" -- the anser is no. Only in bad movies! If Che came back, he would be back in spirit (occupying a new body) and would no doubt be intent on continuing his revolutionary mission." was obnoxious, cowardly and unnecessary. Where is your proof to back up such a certainty? I'll eat your hat if you can share it.

[ulli]

everyone has a twin ...

Many years ago, my mother encountered my Doppelgänger in a supermarket on the other side of the world from where I was at the time. They were right next to each other in the checkout line.

My mother, who was a remarkably intelligent and perceptive woman, was dumbstruck: this other man looked, dressed, walked, smiled, gestured, and talked EXACTLY like I did. Her great regret was that she never engaged him in conversation to find out who he was and what his life was about. She just stared and stared and was quite unable to speak. For many years afterwards, she enjoyed telling the very interesting story.

My son had a doppelgänger, same name, same interests, talented musician and graphic artist and web designer...I could not believe my eyes when at the bottom of the page even the middle name was the same...Barnaby Charles Ward. And my son had the largest Lego collection in the Northern hemisphere and Barnaby Charles Ward from Adelaide Australia according to the article about him had the largest Lego collection in the Southern Hemisphere .

The main difference between them...the other Barnaby (aka Baterz) died of Aids years ago, having been suffering from hemophilia and had been given a contaminated blood transfusion at age 15. He lived to the age of 33.
After reading that I was somewhat worried for years, that my son might meet a similar fate, and nearly panicked when he developed a heart condition, but he seems to be stronger now. He will be 35 next year.
If you google Barnaby Ward and Baterz you will see the amazing coincidence for yourself.


Here is the obituary of my son's doppelgänger
http://oa.anu.edu.au/obituary/ward-barnaby-charles-13976

[Crystine]

The main difference between them...the other Barnaby (aka Baterz) died of Aids years ago, having been suffering from hemophilia and had been given a contaminated blood transfusion at age 15. He lived to the age of 33.
After reading that I was somewhat worried for years, that my son might meet a similar fate, and nearly panicked when he developed a heart condition, but he seems to be stronger now. He will be 35 next year.
If you google Barnaby Ward and Baterz you will see the amazing coincidence for yourself.

Ulli, I am glad that your son is well. I also hope he stays strong and energetic. A mother's love. Only a mom knows what it is from her side. Much love. Friend.

[araucaria]

There is plenty of evidence that 'a dead person can visit here in the body', albeit usually through the intercession of a medium. One of the people working in this field is Michael Roll, who physically met his dead father in 1983.
http://www.spiritoday.com/exclusive-interview-with-michael-roll-what-is-life-after-death-all-about-3/

The medium Helen Duncan was active in this area. I read somewhere that when she herself came back to her daughter, she brought a rose like the one her daughter had secretly placed in her coffin, and cuttings were taken of the rose, which increased and multiplied in the normal way.
http://www.helenduncan.org.uk/

The other phenomenon one might mention here is ghostly visitations, which can sometimes be very real. The astronomer Camille Flammarion catalogued hundreds of instances in his three Death and its mystery books.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camille_Flammarion

The writer Georges Perec, who made the loss of his mother, gassed at Auschwitz, the central subtext of his writings, late in life told his psychoanalyst that he had seen her just as he could see him.

While none of these examples quite fits the circumstances of the opening post, they certainly match the title of this thread.

[Bill Ryan]

Your final decree, "In answer to your question "Can a dead person visit here in the body?" -- the answer is no. Only in bad movies! If Che came back, he would be back in spirit (occupying a new body) and would no doubt be intent on continuing his revolutionary mission." was obnoxious, cowardly and unnecessary. Where is your proof to back up such a certainty? I'll eat your hat if you can share it.


Obnoxious: No.
Cowardly: No.
Unnecessary: Christine asked the question in her thread title, so I answered it honestly, clearly and accurately. If you sincerely think anything different (and seances do not count: this person had a Facebook page!!), you may be very confused indeed.

[christian]

Here's a story that a friend told me of what happened after her father died. I don't know what the story means, but I do trust her that it happened as she told me.

A postman came to her delivering a parcel which she had not ordered, she did not want to receive it. It was another postman than the one she knew from before. Several days later, when she saw the corpse of her father at the funeral, she said she was amazed that this corpse looked so different from her father when he was alive. She said this postman looked exactly like the corpse of her father, of course she was sad that she didn't accept the parcel.

When it comes to dead people coming back in the flesh, I don't think that this is possible. However, I do think people can appear in the astral and appear very real to most people, whether they're still alive or already dead. My friend never touched this postman or the parcel. Who knows what would have happened.

[Phoenix1304]

Hi Christine

Interesting story. Interesting responses!

I'm thinking something like Che phasing in and out of a parallel universe! If we follow that line of thinking, just because he said he'd been jailed doesn't mean he had...and he's on probation as a universe jumper. He might have 'picked up' the high school from you. Did you find him in a yearbook by the way, he'd already covered the base that he wasn't photographed for it right? Fred is a rather odd name for a young rebel don't you think? I mean, Fred Bloggs is the classic Mr nobody. Ah, first flaw in my speculation, he'd have had a Spanish accent..oh well.

Just throwing out some thoughts here to let you know that plenty of Avalon members enjoy pushing the flap down on the side of the box and you won't get any supercilious put downs from me. You know what you know, and it's hard to express the knowing that kind of experience is, but thank you for trying.

To address your question, I don't believe the deceased can easily manifest anything, let alone full bodied flesh and blood materialisation, but it could, nonetheless, be something equally extraordinary that none of us begin to understand as yet.

Like my finding Cuba synchronicities every way I turn these past 3 days, it's rapidly moved to the top of my 'next place to visit' list and young Che has been much on my mind as it happens. Go figure!

And more questions, was the picture on the FB page one of the actual iconic images of Che or just a picture of the boy with his uncanny resemblance? What did the page reveal about him?

[Crystine]

Hi Christine

Interesting story. Interesting responses!

I'm thinking something like Che phasing in and out of a parallel universe! If we follow that line of thinking, just because he said he'd been jailed doesn't mean he had...and he's on probation as a universe jumper. He might have 'picked up' the high school from you. Did you find him in a yearbook by the way, he'd already covered the base that he wasn't photographed for it right? Fred is a rather odd name for a young rebel don't you think? I mean, Fred Bloggs is the classic Mr nobody. Ah, first flaw in my speculation, he'd have had a Spanish accent..oh well.

Just throwing out some thoughts here to let you know that plenty of Avalon members enjoy pushing the flap down on the side of the box and you won't get any supercilious put downs from me. You know what you know, and it's hard to express the knowing that kind of experience is, but thank you for trying.

To address your question, I don't believe the deceased can easily manifest anything, let alone full bodied flesh and blood materialisation, but it could, nonetheless, be something equally extraordinary that none of us begin to understand as yet.

Like my finding Cuba synchronicities every way I turn these past 3 days, it's rapidly moved to the top of my 'next place to visit' list and young Che has been much on my mind as it happens. Go figure!

And more questions, was the picture on the FB page one of the actual iconic images of Che or just a picture of the boy with his uncanny resemblance? What did the page reveal about him?

----------------

The Facebook page was completely blank except for the photo. Which was the one in this thread minus the printed information.

Not even a name.
Which how about Ferdinand?
Frederico? Or Fernando.
Now I used Fred ????????? To locate the page. I do not remember the last name. The page was mapped out an sectioned for Facebook. But only the picture. I have seen Facebook pages that the owner dropped or actually deleted. Not anything like what I found. Now looking back. God bless him.

[Milneman]

Sometimes things happen that are synchronous...and sometimes its not about us.

One thing about your OP that I think shows great character and compassion is that you gave this young man an ear for a moment, and you spoke to him.

You're a good person, Gramma. :) I mean that with the greatest respect and admiration. :)

[Crystine]

Sometimes things happen that are synchronous...and sometimes its not about us.

One thing about your OP that I think shows great character and compassion is that you gave this young man an ear for a moment, and you spoke to him.

You're a good person, Gramma. :) I mean that with the greatest respect and admiration. :)

----------------

Thankyou Milneman. I know where there is a bridge. And pine cone races.

[Phoenix1304]

You didn't say if you found him in the yearbook...?

Here's a short vid of him being interviewed in Dublin (the interpreter's Spanish is about as good as mine!) and it looks like he gave her his beret! Ooh he was a bit gorgeous wasn't he? Maybe just personal taste but that's my kinda man! lol He was quite the intellectual and loved the work of Frederico Lorca btw. You can tell from his eyes he had a great sense of humour. Now, is this the same guy?

jlAMG7efzIc

You might also enjoy the movie of his book The Motorcycle Diaries starring another lookalike, just for a bit more knowledge about this extraordinary individual. I thoroughly enjoyed it a few years ago.

[Hazel]

Get the sense Che is charmed by his interpreter.. hence the sparkle in his eyes.
And I agree Phoenix, he has charisma and sex appeal.

[Zelig]

Your final decree, "In answer to your question "Can a dead person visit here in the body?" -- the answer is no. Only in bad movies! If Che came back, he would be back in spirit (occupying a new body) and would no doubt be intent on continuing his revolutionary mission." was obnoxious, cowardly and unnecessary. Where is your proof to back up such a certainty? I'll eat your hat if you can share it.


Obnoxious: No.
Cowardly: No.
Unnecessary: Christine asked the question in her thread title, so I answered it honestly, clearly and accurately. If you sincerely think anything different (and seances do not count: this person had a Facebook page!!), you may be very confused indeed.


My objection to your post has little to do with the technical details and everything to do with the tone you utilized. I don't agree or disagree with your opinion regarding the question Christine posed but I find it disappointing that you asserted your opinion as fact and punctuated it with a declaration of the question's 'silliness'. I wouldn't be bothered if such a response came from anyone else but it seems to be you that steers the ship here and if this is the direction you think it should take then I think my time here is done. I think I may have unfairly and naively put you on a pedestal and expected you to display superhuman powers of good nature, consideration and unerring wisdom. I apologize for this sincerely and can understand, or at least imagine the challenges you face in maintaining this community. It really is a nice place.

[araucaria]

then I think my time here is done. I think I may have unfairly and naively put you on a pedestal and expected you to display superhuman powers of good nature, consideration and unerring wisdom. I apologize for this sincerely and can understand, or at least imagine the challenges you face in maintaining this community. It really is a nice place.
Well, Zelig, now that you have toppled Bill from that mistake of a pedestal, how can your time in this really nice place be done? I must be missing something.
:)

[Zelig]

then I think my time here is done. I think I may have unfairly and naively put you on a pedestal and expected you to display superhuman powers of good nature, consideration and unerring wisdom. I apologize for this sincerely and can understand, or at least imagine the challenges you face in maintaining this community. It really is a nice place.
Well, Zelig, now that you have toppled Bill from that mistake of a pedestal, how can your time in this really nice place be done? I must be missing something.
:)

Correction!

I think I had been looking at the pedestal the wrong way and it was actually me that I'd put on top -- therefore any toppling really only affected myself. I have requested a decommissioning of my membership here but apparently the process is not immediate. Unless this is the afterlife, in which case I can inform you that it doesn't seem much different. Disappointing, actually.

[araucaria]

then I think my time here is done. I think I may have unfairly and naively put you on a pedestal and expected you to display superhuman powers of good nature, consideration and unerring wisdom. I apologize for this sincerely and can understand, or at least imagine the challenges you face in maintaining this community. It really is a nice place.
Well, Zelig, now that you have toppled Bill from that mistake of a pedestal, how can your time in this really nice place be done? I must be missing something.
:)

Correction!

I think I had been looking at the pedestal the wrong way and it was actually me that I'd put on top -- therefore any toppling really only affected myself. I have requested a decommissioning of my membership here but apparently the process is not immediate. Unless this is the afterlife, in which case I can inform you that it doesn't seem much different. Disappointing, actually.
It's probably a cooling off period. Why don't you just stay with us? We all say things that piss each other off, but it all comes out in the wash.