Aliens and their Ambassadors

[Kalamos]

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[onawah]

The only ones I feel are really credible are those like Bob Dean and Clifford Stone who, because of their positions in the military, had first hand contact with ETs who were interacting with government.
Although that doesn't necessarily mean the ETs were being honest with the government, either!
But it seems less likely they would be able to get away with being dishonest, because they would be closely scrutinized.
Of course, neither can we can trust the governments, or even the whistleblowers, 100%.
They can be manipulated too.

[Kalamos]

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[Kalamos]

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[Heartsong]

If alien races really wanted to contact earthlings they'd land in Central Park and offer free rides.

If a person wants an answer badly enough, he'll get one (however wrong) and he'll believe it.

[ghostrider]

There is one person with pictures , daytime clear photos , metal samples , sound recordings , all before computers and photoshop ... some of his photos are from 1968... these other world people say that contact between ET's and humans of earth is very rare ... their ancestors were some of our ancestors , we share a lineage with them, they supervise the earth now for about 1,000 years ... they keep other races in check that would do us harm ... alot of what they say goes against what all the other so-called ET contacts say ... is is said some of their grandparents were considered by man to be the gods of south america and egypt ...their lineage split and part became the builders of Atlantis, the other Lemuria ... All of them come from Lyra , they have many names by us , but they today are known as the plejaren ...from a different time space in the direction of the pleadies ... In 1975 they used the term pleadian to expose openly hoaxers , as there are no pleadians , only plejaren ...

[Kalamos]

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[ghostrider]

They have given predictions and information for over 50 years ... the coming of computers, credit cards, the death of the popes , adolf hitler , the iraq wars , the year when our sun will die , the moon will eventually tear away from earth's orbit , what foods are good , the time between incarnations , the sinking of Atlantis , the first arrival of humans to earth , the seven belts of creation , merlin and his ray sword given to the King , the ice age , number of human civilizations in our galaxy , the seven forces of nature , the spiritual teaching , the building of the pyramids , the bermuda triangle , the fall of the berlin wall , the JfK assasination , the twin towers , Haarp , the bird deaths in Arkansas , the dark side of the moon , the destruction of planet Melona ( where now is our asteroid belt ) , the roswell crash , the Kenneth Arnold sighting, the betty and barney hill sighting , Mufon , the gulf oil spill , the indonesia tidal wave , when and where major earthquakes will happen , the men in black (Sirian forces from another planet ) , one only has to read the contact notes , thousands of pages of face to face talking for over 50 years ... the cool thing is you can look at predictions from the early 70's and then google and find them fullfilled twenty years later just as was told ... exact time and date and location ... No one has an excuse to be in the dark on these matters , the information is available to anyone for free ...http://theyfly.com/

[Carmody]

We're getting closer to the hundredth monkey effect working it's way in here, on the subject of alien life or, more correctly, 'non earth human avatars'.

When we hit a critical enough mass, maybe then.

As the man in Star Wars said, 'stay on target (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnP5iDKwuwk)'.

Otherwise we'll never get there, at least not any time soon. It's not just you, it's that you are hauling the mass of all the unaware around as well (due to connectivity in being as a groupmind on the subconscious reality formation level). Kinda like pulling a block of granite on a rope, through the desert. Keep at it.

Every now and then, one jumps off the granite block and joins you in the pulling. Helps with the attitude we can fall into. When we do that (fall into negativity on the subject), we need to step back and see how far we've come. Which is quite far.

[Bright Garlick]

Calamus your doubt is reasonable. I too was very doubtful until I became conscious of my own experiences.
I can tell you there is no manipulation by real ET's just weak human minds and a great deal of what passes for alien is covert military.
I cannot convince you. If you really care, try to have your own experiences - then you will Know.
All this talk of ETs or astral beings manipulating humans is just weak ignorant human minds. They are not like this. If they were the cosmos would be drowning in chaos and we would not exist.
Let go of your fear and find out for yourself.

Bright.

PS. My very close friend had a position higher than Clifford Stones. When she left in 1985 they had documented 63 alien races. None were hostile.
I have encountered 27 races. None are hostile and none deceive or manipulate. Only we do that here not them.

[onawah]

I'm no expert on Billy Meier, Ghostrider, but I've seen pretty credible looking evidence that his info is not all that it seems.
I would be interested to know what Bill Ryan thinks about it.

[Freed Fox]

Kinda like pulling a block of granite on a rope, through the desert. Keep at it.

Every now and then, one jumps off the granite block and joins you in the pulling. Helps with the attitude we can fall into. When we do that (fall into negativity on the subject), we need to step back and see how far we've come. Which is quite far.

I like the analogy. Though, it would seem that there are a fair few liars and charlatans out there pulling the block in the wrong direction, as well as individuals with genuine experiences who, in their confusion, jump to their own (false) conclusions with contrived certainty.

Calamus, I share some of your doubts, but not as to the existence of aliens or even the possibility that they have interacted with us in the past. Rather, I doubt the claims which assert intimate knowledge about them, let alone these psychological profiles of entire races that people sadly buy into. Unlike you, though, I'm not apprehensive about the possibility of extra-terrestrial contact. I find the prospect rather intriguing.

[Agape]

Hello Calamus

there is no doubt that you have the right to doubt everything and anything , including your own mind and senses .
You have a valid point of skeptic who is not informed about the subject of ET life ,
a human who believes what has been told and taught for years in the classrooms
about 'humans' being natives to this planet, evolving over millions of years from apes , apes from primates, primates from smaller mammals , mammals from reptiles ..and so forth ..back to sea foam .
This is what they told you and that's what you believe . They offered you few old bones to support their claims .
Told you how much common you have with orangutan , chimpanzee, your dog and cat .

They've repeated the point ad nauseam to make you feel like a dog . Trained you in being human with ruler in hand till you could repeat it after them .

Few generations before ..two three centuries ago, people were burned at stake for claiming the earth is round rather than flat and revolves around Sun.

The official story taught that time was that Earth is Gods only paradise and man was created from its dust . Sounds a way similar to what Darwin tried to interpret in more scientific terminology .

Stars were meant to be luminaries travelling on Sky, together with Sun n Moon.

It all was created by God just for you . For your eyes only.

For the lack of solid proofs ..rather difficult to collect without right measurements and sophisticated equipment and calculations, yet to be evolved ,
the Church refuted every claim of 'real ' Universe we're part of and where they could not help they destroyed the demoniacs , the 'false prophets' , the heretics.

I understand your healthy skepticism about the subject because i am sure that we all have been there , earlier in life .

Powered by the education system , parental believes and lack of better experience ..and doubts that any 'other world' is for real too.

Have you ever been exposed to anything truly out of this world ?

Yes or No. Answer it to yourself, not to me. I'm not here to make you a believer. If the answer is No, it actually can't be explained to you otherwise than as matter of trust and it's very much not enough . Faith , say positive, uncorrupted faith devoid of empty cynicism is still a good thing ..it keeps our dreams alive .. it keeps us going ,

imagination is as important as intellect in making this place better .

So is your 'mental field' and 'dreams' and other peoples 'astral experiences' .

If you were to deny all those as meaningless misproducts of overactive brain

you would kill the power of art and music and the influence they play in everyday life, power of scientific inspiration , power of blessings likewise .

Human life is about exploration a lot ( so is the life of many animals ) but what makes it so different are your aspirations and dreams that carry subtle intelligence in them .

There are cynics who truly believe they are but type of animal who's basic needs can be defined by eating, defecating, sleeping, procreating and exercising their physical prowess .

Good luck they do not sneak to this forum often . They'd feel lost or very wrong about most of us.

Project Camelot and Avalon were originally devoted to witness testimonies of people who experienced proofs of realities that other people didn't and were suppressed ( still are ) by mainstream media, official claims ( have you heard of plausible deniability ) , academia, church and so forth.

Eventhough, such people aka witnesses do exist in almost all walks of life ( and very few of them , actually ever come forwards ) .
There are genuine witnesses to ET contact/presence in almost every part of world, people of all education degrees, all sorts of religious backgrounds or none,
rich and poor, men, women , children .

I would not agree that those who worked for/in some government or military are more acceptable and trustable than others. With no disrespect to anyone concerned ,

governments and military are sort of 'hard core guys' but equally well known for making 'hard core fun' of their citizens .

If only one guy was to be trusted , for the fact he/she worked for government, no one would trust him, I can assure you.

There is no government taking active responsibility for ET contact . Not even for SETI . They have hands full with human matters .


Your questions are thought provoking and very valid .. and though I'm seemingly standing on the other bank from where you are standing at this moment ..

I can't even attempt to answer them all .

From my knowledge ..that won't help you a lot anyway .. so feel free to keep your doubts there ..

names of ET races are mostly names given to them by humans . As simple as it sounds, they are human sounds and names .

For the less usual and how they come to being ..again, simply as sounds . When you encounter something unknown and extra-ordinary, and never seen before yet astonishing and complicated enough so it deserves reaction,
your brain and you tend to make a sound . A complicated sound -expression that may end up as a name for something .

Secondly, also the origins and parameters of these entities , so far remain in the land of unknown unless ..for 2 or 3 species that were allegedly captured and measured repeatedly and those measures are commonly accepted among people who encountered the beings. One good example are 'grey aliens' .

The rest of the problem rests as you've said, with lack of physical evidence or rather such an evidence that would be easily collectable by past human technologies .

On the other hand , and unless you want to deny value of human intellect and memory altogether ,
contact events happened to genuine skeptical individuals who had no relation to the subject previously, no wild dreams and imaginations and no intention to invent a theory or two , to fight with the rest of mankind.

I'm with you on some of the questions .. and on skepticism to self proclaimed messiahs and leaders who channel messages on the go,
trying to install faith where we have scientific means needing to be deployed ,

and generally, people lacking discernment .

But . There is no one here or in the scientific community with wisdom who would do themselves ( and you ) a favour by disproving existence of other , even more intelligent life in Space than we are currently
or who could ultimately disprove we are not being in contact with beings from other worlds and so forth.

The answers to your nagging questions truly do not rest with believers in astral planes but you might also find them in realms of maths, astrophysics, ( so far ) hypothesised interactions between time-space continuums such those that characterise life in individual galaxies, Solar systems , planets etc.

If you're not able to photograph something with your latest Nikon apparatus it does not necessarily mean that it does not exist .


:sleep:

[Flash]

Dear Calamus, you are sooo funny. Why? Because you express loud and clear what everyone of us has gone through at one time or another and what we, most of us most probaby, still sporadically go trhough, until the knowledge has stabilized. And yet, sometimes we doubt.

Welcome to the club. It won't pass. lol But it will stabilize. And slowly one starts discerning truth from lies. But in me, doubts always remains a little, and I think this is part of sanity within an insane world.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Hi Calamus

i have a few questions to ask you if you don't mind...

What would proof of such things do for you ?

N

[Kalamos]

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[Nanoo Nanoo]

Yes i see but What would proof actually do for you ?

N

[Kalamos]

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[Nanoo Nanoo]

SO what proof can you give me that God exists ? do you have any ?

N

[Milneman]

Calamus your doubt is reasonable. I too was very doubtful until I became conscious of my own experiences.
I can tell you there is no manipulation by real ET's just weak human minds and a great deal of what passes for alien is covert military.
I cannot convince you. If you really care, try to have your own experiences - then you will Know.
All this talk of ETs or astral beings manipulating humans is just weak ignorant human minds. They are not like this. If they were the cosmos would be drowning in chaos and we would not exist.
Let go of your fear and find out for yourself.

Bright.

PS. My very close friend had a position higher than Clifford Stones. When she left in 1985 they had documented 63 alien races. None were hostile.
I have encountered 27 races. None are hostile and none deceive or manipulate. Only we do that here not them.

To add to what Bright is saying, in my own situation, I don't believe half of what I'm experiencing myself. I have two clear events that I witnessed with my own senses that I can't explain.

And even in telling everything I have, in my thread, and to you Cal, I have to be honest....people have to consider it fiction because there's no reason to believe it. This is the irony of the situation. It's happening to me and the proof that I need I just don't have. But in my situation...I don't need it. Because end of day, it's about sorting out what's going on inside my heart, my being, and how I'm interacting with the world I live in and the people I live with.

I think people can and are manipulated...by other people. Again, my axiom should maybe be "Believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see and you'll be ok."

Or, to look at it another way, until you find the proof, look at it all as allegory. Sure Bright's seen stuff, I've seen stuff, lots of us have, and lots of us haven't.

Trust me, bro. I mean this with the greatest of love, you being one of the first people that I connected with here at Avalon....you don't want to experience this first hand. Don't wish it on yourself. And don't think your experiences are any less important either (I know you know this, I just gotta say...in my hear, y'know?)

Some people are left handed, and some people are gay, and some people have mystical experiences, and some people project astrally, and some people are connected to ET's, and some people can cook.

---Or---

Think about this.

Socrates was a philosopher, one of the first greats of the Greek world, the western world...and yet, the only proof we have of his existence are the dialogues that Plato wrote about him. Otherwise, there's no proof....and yet, most people believe Socrates existed, lived, taught, and died in Athens from drinking hemlock. Same with the Stoics. We have nothing they actually wrote, and yet....we take the fragments and put them together and there they are, larger than life.

So far, I've encountered...4 that I can count. Maybe five. And one of them is now...hehe We need to talk bro. :)

I'll work on the selfie. If I can manage to get one with someone from the other side of the world who has no business being in my bedroom, will that count? ;)

[Milneman]

so what proof can you give me that god exists ? Do you have any ?

N

oo! Oo! Mistah katah! Mista katah!

I will sit on my hands, I promise.

[Kalamos]

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[learninglight]

Hi Cal :)

I'm just having a nice cuppa tea and 2 slices of toast; can i prove it to you as i am here and you are there? I expect you can relate to me having tea and toast because you have seen for yourself 'tea and toast' but you can't 'see' me at this time can you (or can you!!! hahaha)

What i'm trying to say, and probably making a right pigs ear of doing so is 'just because YOU (as in anyone) hasn't experienced something it doesn't mean it hasn't happened'.

As for channeled info, well i've had my own issues accepting this over time, but one day i just had this realisation ' How the heck does all this info get in my head? Well you silly woman it;s thoughts and ideas, and where do thoughts come from? ummm outside my head yayyy'. Yes some will have their heads full of implanted bullcrap, but that doesn't mean everyone receiving this info this way is being decieved. And yes there is mind control tech out there.

There is so much bullcrap deliberately put out to make your awakening to truth that much harder, keep an open mind (not easy at times i know)

keep questioning and enjoy your awakening :)

sharon

[Milneman]

Ooooh......tea and toast.....now that's heaven.

(sorry, I seem to be the king of OT posts lately)

[Kalamos]

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[Nanoo Nanoo]

SO Aliens , like God exist in scriptures written by people who claim to have various interactions with these beings however there is no actual proof is there ?

What if God was an Alien ? What if the whole god / jesus thing was what you are talking about , Aliens taking control of our minds and making us believe there is a God that Loves us But will hurt us if we sin but he forgives all however you better follow the rules and by the way we dont pay taxes but you guys do...

And in this i can see a paralell.

Was Jesus an Alien from another world sent to get us to follow his ways ?

What do you people think ?

N

[sheme]

I am mindful of the "good farmer" he takes care of his stock, but they are all consumed by him one way or another in the end.

[Carmody]

As a duality being, a spirit in an avatar, I'm not all that worried about my personal future. As a matter of fact, I'm not worried at all.

What I am horrified, by, though, is watching all these 7 billion of the same, walk around in ignorance, and spend their time basically cutting themselves to pieces. Like sitting in front of a trap and watching a woodland creature gnaw it's leg off. Watching 7 billion do it to themselves and each other, in a complicated dance.

It isn't all that comfortable to watch.

Those who go clear, they do retreat from 'civilization' (the most tear-jerking of oxymorons). This is why we have the laughing and crying Buddhist sculptures.

We laugh because we are free, and the world is free, but.....

We cry because we see the self inflicted blind horror inflicted on self and others.....and in that ignorance, are trapped.

It's mind, mind, mind.. to be found and dismissed... and the rest, is just shadows and self willed ignorance.

[ghostrider]

When we get past our ego , things will change ...

[GreenGuy]

Good words, Milneman! I'm fairly well convinced that nonhuman races are here on the earth and always have been. But maybe not. I may even have encountered one or two of 'em myself...but I don't have any proof, and I can think of other explanations. So meanwhile, we are certainly being manipulated, and it's crazy to let fear enter the equation. I always enjoy your clear and logical posts.

[Flash]

Ok, here my today's thinking/feeling:

When my dad died, I was extremely sad. I loved him deeply and always felt his profound love as well. He was a very loving man, his eyes would sparkle when seeing me or my sister and brothers, you could feel it.

Then the years went by. The pictures of him I had kept in my mind started to fade away. His voice was not as clear either. And I thought of him less and less, living my own life.

But one thing always remained as strong as ever, it was the feeling of love. Being love unconditionnally, and loving unconditionally. This he had given us, because this he was.

My lesson was: love is all, love never fades, love is life. All you need is love....

So, coming back to Calamus' topic, that there is ETs or not, that they are regressive or not, it does not matter much in the whole of the universe. What matters is who we are and what we carry with us.

For the rest, I like to be informed, i want to know if there is ET and if some are negative, how to counterbalance, I want to stop wars and self destruction (we are all one),

but in fact, apart from what I carry with me, I DGAF (i am getting it Carmody Ye ye ye - reference to here and now thread http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30405-Here-and-Now...What-s-Happening&p=771802&viewfull=1#post771802).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-pFAFsTFTI

[Milneman]

DETOUR AHEAD!


SO Aliens , like God exist in scriptures written by people who claim to have various interactions with these beings however there is no actual proof is there ?

What if God was an Alien ? What if the whole god / jesus thing was what you are talking about , Aliens taking control of our minds and making us believe there is a God that Loves us But will hurt us if we sin but he forgives all however you better follow the rules and by the way we dont pay taxes but you guys do...

And in this i can see a paralell.

Was Jesus an Alien from another world sent to get us to follow his ways ?

What do you people think ?

N

I think you've been reading Descartes.

But I also think you've left his conclusion out, and filled it in with your own. :P

http://www.vahidnab.com/med.pdf As far as treaties go, this one is a little challenging, but worthwhile. Print it off guys, hole punch it, put it in a binder, and keep it on your shelf after you read it. It's a really good example of how sometimes the moves of a thinker are as beautiful as a ballet dancer.

1. I doubt everything I know from my senses.
2. I'm left with the idea that I could be a brain in a jar, and my senses are merely impulses created by aliens using their apple computers (borrowing Plantinga's words here lol) to create my experiences in my mind.
3. The aliens could be evil! But the truth is, I don't know there is an evil demon outside of my mind doing these things, or aliens for that matter. All I know is I am a mind that thinks.
4. I think, therefore, I must have a mind that thinks. I now have an idea of the universe, but it's a box that only exists as what is in my mind. It's pretty lonely in here! Thing is? I have an idea in my mind as well. An idea of a perfect being, a perfect being that is loving and compassionate and ... God!
5. I didn't put that idea in my mind. That idea must have come from somewhere...it must have come from God! SO now I know two things exist. My mind, and God.
6. As my ideas about God are innate, as my beliefs about His goodness are reasonable given the propositions I hold about his existence, I know there are no evil demons manipulating my mind. I can trust the idea I exist, I can trust the idea that God exists, therefore I can trust the external world exists.
7. There's been this theory floating around about Jesus for a while, that maybe he was an alien sent to get us going. Why, may I ask, do we always choose Jesus over Buddha, Mohammed, Moses, Abraham, Shiva, or any other "diety head" of any other religious faith?

You ever feel like the kids are ganging up on the one kid in the schoolyard because it's easier to pick on him? You ever think about the idea Jesus actually knew this was going to happen?

Why, suddenly, is it politically correct to assault Christian belief?

You ever think that the Aliens, if they're watching right now, are wondering why they even came close to this blue dot in the first place? I really get Bob Dean's frustration with humanity.

No. I don't think he was an alien. But I do think his teachings are still alien to people who want to have their cake and eat it to, and not be blamed for stealing it from the baker, and not giving any to people who are hungry.

---OR to put it ANOTHER way, since I've decided it's now time to stop sitting on my hands---

1. Our understanding of God is a being than which no greater can be conceived.
2. The idea of God exists in the mind.
3. A being which exists both in the mind and in reality is greater than a being that exists only in the mind.
4. If God only exists in the mind, then we can conceive of a greater being—that which exists in reality.
5. We cannot be imagining something that is greater than God.
6. Therefore, God exists.

The problem, Gaunilo, is that if you use the same argument for the existence of extra terrestrial life, the argument collapses. It's the same thing as looking for the perfect island. I can conceive of a being greater than the perfect island, or even greater than the perfect extra terrestrial. :)

Or, in a simpler way, it's perfectly reasonable to believe that God exists. And, for some people, it's perfectly reasonable to believe that ET life exists.

I'm also of the kind of person this time of year that believes it's perfectly reasonable to believe Santa exists...but usually around the 25th, I return to believing he doesn't. ;)

[Agape]

I thought we were taking about aliens.

The word, God, has lost it's definition these days.

But I'm sure most people, when they hear the word, Alien, consider that it refers to a physical intelligent life form outside of our Earths spheres.

However, it could mean different things to different people.

Like Alien Life could exist without physical form, but a higher form, or formless Consciousness in higher worlds/other dimensions.


That's one way to think about it , good start . But allow me to tell you this ...

there is no 'life' that would be 'only consciousness ' devoid of physical manifestation and capability to interact with inanimate matter .

What is 'Life' anyway, in broad sense ? It's autonomous and intelligent expression of information , much more complex and complicated than the expression itself . It's being projected to time-space that shapes it to particular life form
but in its own lasting , it is multidimensional information and its complexity predates complexity of its expression.
In another words, the real yourself exists beyond this particular manifestation of human body within particular time on earth .
Your real 'self' contains all information down to the 'primordial Eve' ( ok Adam but at start the 2 were 1 androgynous entity ) ,
all your evolutionary future with multitudes of possibilities that will adjust to environment no matter what happens on this planet until it remains 'habitable' for you or even any other such habitable planet somewhere else in Space where you'd continue to evolve to someone else .

Can you see all the options hidden in you ? I doubt that ;)


To classify a life form, other than yourself , you have about 3 basic options. It can be simpler , less intelligent life form and such would be detectable by you but would hardly get here other way than as microspore travelling through Space .

It can be equal to you .. there still, it's hard to presume that human 'equals' would actually be capable of advanced Space travel .

Or, lastly, it can be more advanced life form that has somehow developed Space travelling capacities safe enough to want to explore this part of Universe and other life forms .

The problem with you is that you're barely aware of tiny portion of your past ..consciously .. but you have very little idea of how are you going to evolve in future .

To one of your human ancestors , say 'only' 2 thousand years ago, you with your short cut and iPad would look totally 'alien' . Possibly an 'all knowing God' or 'angel' who seems to know past presence and future,
especially if you had Google maps, weather forecast app , dictionary of world languages .. you would look like a weirdo ..but you'd be 'someone' .

But how will you evolve in future, physically and mentally, you don't know .. in another thousand or even million years and if all goes well,

you may not need any of these gadgets . Your form again, may turn to be very ephemeral, etherical or it may take on some kind of weird stony shape .

All we can presume is that you'll be more evolved , much smarter, knowledgable than you're now ..and it will also depend on what environment will you choose to continue life on ..what form will you take .

[Nanoo Nanoo]

So where is Calamus ? avoiding perhaps ? seems like previous incarnations here.

N

[Kalamos]

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[GreenGuy]

there is no 'life' that would be 'only consciousness ' devoid of physical manifestation and capability to interact with inanimate matter .

A fairly dogmatic statement, without any possible proof that I can conceive. Nevertheless I tend to agree. But consider what physical manifestation may consist of. If the space between the atoms in my body were only a tiny bit bigger, I would be invisible to you. Such is the nature of air, which definitely has physical manifestation even though we can't see it. It's this simple fact that allows me to imagine conscious beings which we cannot see, simply because their forms are less dense than ours.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Calamus , you Must Resist ET Intervention :o

So you dont have any proof of god , you dont have any proof that anybodies views are in correct..... just your own observations, yet you are having a rant about other people having ovbservations yet you demand proof from them ?

Milneman

Peoples ideas and experiences of God are subjective and cannot be difinitively categorised into a stereotypical understanding. but yo uknow i was asking Calamus who i emplore should resist et interventions any way possible.

N

[Kalamos]

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[Maunagarjana]

Calamus, don't expect to see any proof because the ETs are not trying to prove it. They are actively giving no proof. There may be exceptions here or there, but even those are questionable. ETs will never allow themselves to be photographed. If you came anywhere near them with a camera with the intention to sneak a photo, they would know. Many contactees have said that they've pleaded for some type of physical evidence or some way to prove it, and they always say NO. You hate it and I hate it, but that's the way it is. Why is this? Because to prove their existence in a incontrovertible way would be to infringe on the free will of those who would prefer to remain ignorant, whether consciously or unconsciously. This could be just abiding by cosmic law. Either that or they are simply following their own protocols which require them to offer no proof.

So, for those of us who don't want to remain ignorant, we have to do some work in amassing and cross referencing large mosaics of information. Skeptics love to talk about 'proof' and how 'hearsay' means nothing, but in a court of law, testimony from multiple credible witnesses that corroborate each other can be enough to put someone in prison for decades. That seems pretty real to me. And a lot of these contactees seem to me as if they have nothing to gain from coming forwards. In fact, for some of them it seems like nothing but a bunch of grief for them.

So yes, quite a few purported contactees I do doubt. Or if I don't don't doubt they had contact, I doubt that they haven't embellished and expanded on what actually happened. Some I just don't see how they could be making it all up or what they hope to gain from it (especially when they aren't selling anything) and anyway, why they aren't writing fiction instead, because they would have to be some of the most imaginative storytellers around to come up with some of the details they report. I read a lot of fiction, man, and to me, some of the stuff I read from contactees easily surpasses the best fiction I have read, not necessarily in terms of narrative, but in terms of imaginative and headspinning details. And yet Hollywood is not knocking down their doors to portray their stories.

But that aside, you can tell by the way some of them act that they have been deeply affected by what they say they have experienced. At the risk of throwing yet another dubious contactee log on the skeptical fire, I'll post this video.....which I don't think is actually particularly persuasive in terms of proving anything. And he is even selling books, which I suppose somehow detracts from his credibility. But just observe this guy, listen to what he says about his contacts, and put yourself in his position. Towards the end he makes an analogy about how it's like going to Hawaii....you've either been there or you haven't. Other people might tell you about it, and you're sure it's great, but going to Hawaii is a completely different matter. Unfortunately, unlike Hawaii, there are no photo-ops for contacts.

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[Nanoo Nanoo]

It is wise to understand we know nothing and to try to define everything can be challenging.

In the greater scheme of things its safe to say

ET's exist
ET's are here
ET's Interact with our planet
ET's Interact with people on this planet

Some have managed to desypher the messages and deliver them to us all for our benefit while others may never tell a soul.

Credible people like Mary Rodwell and Dolores Cannon have many documented accounts of these contacts and they believe they are real.

This to me means it is plausible such things go on and have true stories and its plausible some take advantage as is human nature to do so.

N

[Maunagarjana]

As far as evidence goes, I think the single best thing I've come across is *some* of the Billy Meier material. Especially the earlier stuff. For instance, in addition to the stuff already mentioned, he predicted AIDS decades in advance *by name*. It would take me a while to dig that up to show you, but it shouldn't be that hard to find. The predicted death toll he gave was many times greater than AIDS has killed to date, but to be fair, it's not over yet.

[Agape]

there is no 'life' that would be 'only consciousness ' devoid of physical manifestation and capability to interact with inanimate matter .

A fairly dogmatic statement, without any possible proof that I can conceive. Nevertheless I tend to agree. But consider what physical manifestation may consist of. If the space between the atoms in my body were only a tiny bit bigger, I would be invisible to you. Such is the nature of air, which definitely has physical manifestation even though we can't see it. It's this simple fact that allows me to imagine conscious beings which we cannot see, simply because their forms are less dense than ours.


Great point . Consider this thread on Quantum Consciousness (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66525-Quantum-Consciousness) Naste.de.lumina has just posted offers piece of support.

If 'Life' = consciousness = is said to pervade Space in form of intelligent information capable of manifesting as 'entity' on the canvas of material Universe ,

though it's own natural creative domain is the information matrix itself ,

characterised by its manifestation seeking quality among else

( as if I'd say : Life is very curious to interact with non-living matter , project itself to various forms thus establishing its field of manifested life forms )

I seem to disprove my own theorem above . ;)

However , that's only till you are thinking in 3D linear physical space-time category and forget what we actually experience is non-linear cyclic manifestation of 'Life= information- consciousness ' projecting itself willingly from the start ..

I'd say like fragile weaver on the edge of much larger thicker cloth of gross material realities .



:angel:

[GreenGuy]

I don't know about ETs. But I do know that UFOs are real because I've seen them and photographed them. You can see some of my photos in my Avalon album here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/album.php?albumid=802).

I had a very bizarre experience in the desert in 1973 that makes me think I may have had contact, however I don't remember enough of it to know for sure. I've always thought it would be interesting to be hypnotized to see if that would bring out any further info.

Also, I have either had exactly ONE hallucination in my life, or else I saw a reptilian shape-shifter in the 1980s before there was an internet, and before I'd ever heard of such things.

[learninglight]

I'm keeping an open mind on ETs, be they extraterrestrial, terrestrial, dimensional or anything you can think of, there is definately something going on.
Maybe it's a mix of all i've listed and those that have experiences with these beings are having a hard time, not only coming to terms with their experiences but the conflict it seems to bring from others.
I've gone from believing, to thinking it's all nuts, to just ignoring the evidence/material/facts/deliberate lies to cause confusion and now i'm at a place where something inside me is telling me 'keep that mind open, don't form conclusions when you don't have the full picture'. So, i keep looking for answers, inside and out.

sharon