No accountability

[Violet]

I want to write a little about accountability.

I've been thinking about it following some observations I made. It's a what-if question, not a belief I currently uphold or wish to promote.

Here goes. Often times when I observe people in an angry state, I notice that the idea of accountability makes their situation somewhat more bearable. They say things like:

- goes around comes around
- karma's gonna get you
and more directly:
- you're gonna burn in hell
- etc.

And people cling onto that. The idea that someone's going to hurt (badly) for some injustice then becomes a prospect that people now live up to.

Now what if there was no accountability (other than the one you put into practice by your own hand, law, institution). I'm talking higher levels of accountability here. What if things were just...as they are.

If people knew this to be so for certain, what would that change in life?

[donk]

I believe things are just as they are, and not worrying about others' accountability is part of unconditional love. Karma (the "bad" kind, at least) is either misunderstood or outright bullsh!t (I lean toward the latter). If you can accept that, life is much easier, or at least my believing this makes me less miserable...

[Milneman]

Read C.S. Lewis', "The Problem of Pain".

http://www.kernworld.net/Problem_of_Pain.pdf

Gang? This is another one of those reads you need to print off, hole punch, binder up, and throw on your bookshelf.

[Tesseract]

Now what if there was no accountability (other than the one you put into practice by your own hand, law, institution). I'm talking higher levels of accountability here. What if things were just...as they are.

If people knew this to be so for certain, what would that change in life?

I don't believe in karma, and I find the idea of a karmic universe simply awful. I don't really want anyone to burn in hell once they're dead. If they're still up to no good while they're alive then something needs to be done - but it will only happen by the direction of another intelligence rather than some kind of ethereal arbiter.

How can this mysterious arbiter determine absolute morality? And why should it punish those who are not capable of assessing absolute morality? The karmic universe is one of eternal vindictiveness and judgement, one that enshrines the concept of punishment and one that perpetuates misery. Anyway, as I said, I do not believe that karma is a real phenomenon.

[AutumnW]

I believe the universe is fair and just. Sometimes justice is delayed and difficult to implement but we will all get our chance to learn the lessons we need to learn.

It is extremely important not to brush off the righteous anger of those who have been transgressed by tarring them with the same brush as the aggressors.

[Violet]

I believe things are just as they are, and not worrying about others' accountability is part of unconditional love. Karma (the "bad" kind, at least) is either misunderstood or outright bullsh!t (I lean toward the latter). If you can accept that, life is much easier, or at least my believing this makes me less miserable...

You know, I had the same experience. And miserable seems to be the right word, donk.

When not caring however, there is a very probable risk that people misinterpret it as a weakness from your part. If that's worth worrying about, that is.

[Violet]

Now what if there was no accountability (other than the one you put into practice by your own hand, law, institution). I'm talking higher levels of accountability here. What if things were just...as they are.

If people knew this to be so for certain, what would that change in life?

I don't believe in karma, and I find the idea of a karmic universe simply awful. I don't really want anyone to burn in hell once they're dead. If they're still up to no good while they're alive then something needs to be done - but it will only happen by the direction of another intelligence rather than some kind of ethereal arbiter.

How can this mysterious arbiter determine absolute morality? And why should it punish those who are not capable of assessing absolute morality? The karmic universe is one of eternal vindictiveness and judgement, one that enshrines the concept of punishment and one that perpetuates misery. Anyway, as I said, I do not believe that karma is a real phenomenon.

There it is again, misery. :)

On both parts right?

It is not always required (depending on what you believe) that you yourself make a universal agreement on what is to be absolute morality. There are faith systems where probably indeed it was already come to the conclusion that man could not complete such a difficult task and by divine law a moral standard was revealed to the world. By this standard and by the people's choice to live by that standard (or not) a judgement is made.

And the funny thing is, people don't like to be judged (like that), but people like for others to be judged (held accountable).

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I believe the universe is fair and just. Sometimes justice is delayed and difficult to implement but we will all get our chance to learn the lessons we need to learn.

It is extremely important not to brush off the righteous anger of those who have been transgressed by tarring them with the same brush as the aggressors.

Hi AutumnW

And what if...(not saying it's so but just doing a what-if thinking exercise ;))

[Violet]

Read C.S. Lewis', "The Problem of Pain".

http://www.kernworld.net/Problem_of_Pain.pdf

Gang? This is another one of those reads you need to print off, hole punch, binder up, and throw on your bookshelf.

It's in the queue. I first need to finish this Popperbook I've been wanting to read and I'd like to take a close look at this too.

Can you tell me a little more about Mr. Lewis before I start?

[Milneman]

OH my! Violet, lemme see what I can dig up....heading to Wikipedia.

Clive Staples Lewis (29 November 1898 – 22 November 1963), commonly called C. S. Lewis and known to his friends and family as "Jack", was a novelist, poet, academic, medievalist, literary critic, essayist, lay theologian, and Christian apologist. Born in Belfast, Ireland, he held academic positions at both Oxford University (Magdalen College), 1925–1954, and Cambridge University (Magdalene College), 1954–1963. He is best known both for his fictional work, especially The Screwtape Letters, The Chronicles of Narnia, and The Space Trilogy, and for his non-fiction Christian apologetics, such as Mere Christianity, Miracles, and The Problem of Pain.
Lewis and fellow novelist J. R. R. Tolkien were close friends. Both authors served on the English faculty at Oxford University, and both were active in the informal Oxford literary group known as the "Inklings". According to his memoir Surprised by Joy, Lewis had been baptized in the Church of Ireland (part of the Anglican Communion) at birth, but fell away from his faith during his adolescence. Owing to the influence of Tolkien and other friends, at the age of 32 Lewis returned to the Anglican Communion, becoming "a very ordinary layman of the Church of England".[1] His faith had a profound effect on his work, and his wartime radio broadcasts on the subject of Christianity brought him wide acclaim.
In 1956, he married the American writer Joy Davidman, 17 years his junior, who died four years later of cancer at the age of 45. Lewis died three years after his wife, from renal failure, one week before his 65th birthday. Media coverage of his death was minimal; he died on 22 November 1963—the same day that U.S. President John F. Kennedy was assassinated, and the same day another famous author, Aldous Huxley, died. This has led to the date of his death often being overshadowed by that of Kennedy. In 2013, on the 50th anniversary of his death, Lewis was honoured with a memorial in Poets' Corner, Westminster Abbey.
Lewis's works have been translated into more than 30 languages and have sold millions of copies. The books that make up The Chronicles of Narnia have sold the most and have been popularized on stage, TV, radio, and cinema.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._S._Lewis

The reason I like him, and I shudder to think there may be people here who remember hearing him on the radio, is that he's a philosopher who's easy to understand. And trust me. ;) That's rare at the best of times. :)

[778 neighbour of some guy]

What if things were just...as they are.

If people knew this to be so for certain, what would that change in life?

bkjmzEEQUlE

[AutumnW]

I find it very hard to believe that anybody has unconditional love for everybody. Tolerance, understanding, I can understand but unconditional love? Nope. Watch somebody torture your child and see if you don't become an instant convert to a Christianity that incorporates Hell or a belief in the redemptive force of Karma.

People who are spiritually evolved aren't engaged in the exercise of framing all situations in moral absolutes--as it can cut both ways. We have a shadow aspect that deals with the depths of misery that some individuals will happily plunge others into out of pure self interest. We have a justice system to mete out retribution. If it works well, we are safer and it is a civilizing force.

[donk]

I find it very hard to believe that anybody has unconditional love for everybody.

If they did, they'd be "god" (perfect)....it's not something to be, it's something to aspire to, to live for...

[Milneman]

Keep reaching for the rainbow, that's the point. :) The destination is the journey.

And if you would like another pillow, or a bag of nuts, just press your buzzer and someone will attend to you. Enjoy your flight! :)