I don't know if this works... [Archive] - The Project Avalon Community Forum

Freed Fox

19th December 2013, 02:43

...but I should probably try. I need some help.

It's a struggle just to write this, due to my own self-doubt. Of what consequence are my problems? Why should anyone else care?

Still, Avalon seems at its best when the afflicted reach out for help. Quite a few members here seem to be very caring and compassionate individuals. There are a number who share 'healing energies' and 'positive vibes' when the request for them arises.

Besides, I strive for sincerity these days, even if it isn't pretty. Furthermore, I've always had low self-esteem, and at this point I don't care about being judged poorly anyway.

There's no point in sugar-coating it. I want to die. I have wanted this for some time now, but in the last few days I've been thinking about specific ways to bring that about.

I have pleaded and prayed to anyone and anything that might care; God, guides, guardian angels... I've begged for some form of reassurance, of comfort, of guidance... even an explanation for why I have to be here and why I have to be so miserable, even if such an explanation would not in itself bring any alleviation.

I've done this before going to sleep, such that an answer might come in my dreams. All I have received, however, is nothing. Silence. I awake the next morning feeling much the same, if not worse due to the fact that I am being ignored, or whoever/whatever can hear me simply doesn't care, or perhaps there is no one there in the first place.

So, either those who claim that 'all you need to do is ask' are full of sh*t, or I'm some kind of exception.

I have seen half a dozen therapists in years past, and have tried virtually everything I can think of or have been capable of trying. This isn't going away. I've been here before. The best I have been able to do is to fiercely distract myself, with trivial and ultimately meaningless bullsh*t. However, this does not lead to anything I would consider 'happiness'. It merely pushes the despair to the back of my mind so as to be temporarily ignored.

I've spent over half a decade 'out in the world', going outside of my comfort zone, trying new things, meeting new people, and on top of all that I have a decent imagination. So I do not speak lightly when I say that there is no life on this planet which will bring me fulfillment. Not like billions of others, with their careers and hobbies and families and lovers. I'm completely incompatible with all of it.

I think I've only lasted this long because I was given reason to believe that there is a purpose for all of this. I wrote about it here, for anyone who cares: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?63289-Death-and-the-Quiet-Miracle

But the novelty of this miracle is wearing thin. I'm beginning to think the purpose is simply to be miserable, and be deprived and disappointed at every turn. I don't know what will happen when I die, but I never want to come back to Earth again. I need this to end.

carriellbee

19th December 2013, 02:59

Oh, Freed Fox! I am going to read your Quiet Miracle post but I wanted to answer you here, first. I really understand how you are feeling even though I don't know why. I don't know you or your story, but somehow I feel a connection. I have been where you are now many times. This world is really difficult for those of us who feel things very deeply, as you do. I am going to read your other post now and I will be back. PM me if you need someone to talk to right now...

DeDukshyn

19th December 2013, 03:09

Just keep going with it. (not the suicide thoughts though -- lol). The world has not ended, you have not ended, and nothing has concluded at all. This is a process.

You ego is (as it was) is dying -- you are not. You will make a new ego, based on a new belief system, but this will take a few months. Your requests will be answered - in fact they probably already have. When I called out to God (after losing any belief in "Him" -- I was a full on atheist (instant thing that hit me like a ton of bricks and came with a depression), after being raised Christian), and God answered me fully -- however, the "miracle" was so incredibly subtle, that I could very easily have missed or overlooked it. It is usually the soft gentle things that carry His messages.

For me, I was at the library, depressed as all hell, feeling hopeless, my second half was there as well looking at random stuff. I was "sort of" looking for maybe that answer I was looking for in a book, so I picked up a couple that I thought looked pretty good and I was about to go sign them out. My GF saw the books I had, and said, hey, I saw something over hear that looks similar to what you grabbed, maybe you might be interested in this? (She was trying to be helpful - knowing my situation). She went back over to the are she found the book, and oddly, it was misplaced -- but in the section of books she was browsing, this is how it caught her eye.

I took a lo0k and signed that book out as well. This was the book that forever changed my life, got me back up on my feet, and changed my entire life, my outlook, and my perspective on reality. The book was "The Third Millennium" by Ken Carey. To this day, one of my favourite books of all time. I am not saying this is the book for you, but to give an example of how this is just a process, and a good one, if you wish to see it as such. For you, it could be absolutely anything, but the idea is that you are going through a process of "renewal" -- not "death" even though it may feel like that at times. It hurts to lose yourself sometimes, but when you demand more, or better, sometimes it has to go so a new self can carry you to where you really want to be. My guess is you are right on track.

There are likely some here who can send you light and love and give temporary reprieve, but ultimately it is something you have to process yourself.

My 2 cents, prayers and love. :) I'll see if I can grab some time and check out you other post.

naste.de.lumina

19th December 2013, 03:33

Dear Brother Freed Fox

All we've been and / or are going through difficult situations to face.
This is precisely the challenge. Not what we spend but how we spend is what really matters.
We are led to believe that we have to do and / or be things we are not.
And if you are or try to be the real you, will be pressed to walk again with the cattle. The pressure occurs on all sides.
I try not to take things too seriously. Detachment.
Mainly charges that others try to impose myself.
My brother, we are in a persistently intransigent school, but we have to endure to be able to climb this step. Otherwise we will have to repeat everything from the beginning.
These thoughts of this nature are most likely are not yours..
Are obsessing spirits that lead us to these negative emotions in order to absorb the energy we generate.
So knowing this, stay tuned, and when you realize know such thoughts are not yours and not let it be influential.
Changes the tune.
Enjoy the simplicities things and simplify things complicated.
Have strength you can.
Much love is what we need and what I am sending for you.
Great and sincere hug.
Naste. (In my prayers you will be hereafter in particular).

kenaz

19th December 2013, 03:52

Hello FF...
I have read and reread your post(s). You are too smart to fall for platitudes so I'll skip the pep talk. I noticed a few things. Why do you have low self-esteem?
Nothing I have ever read from you ever made me think this. Get this out of your head. Understand where it came from, study it and dismantle it. Hold yourself
in high regard for you have weathered through enormous difficulties, even through the silence that most people are too terrified to acknowledge. You looked it in the face.
The other thing is a half a decade (5 years?), give yourself more time to discover. You may be a person who can't fake interest. You are searching for your authentic self.
And lastly, it struck me your signature...
Mercy, forgiveness, and compassion are the most virtuous forms of love
Let your heart not be hardened by injustice and tribulation
These are words to live by. I expect to hear more from you. Understand your fox medicine. The world needs powerful people.

http://morningstar.netfirms.com/foxtotem.html

Vangelo

19th December 2013, 03:58

Hi Freed, Just know that I care. I do not know how to help and I don't have any words of wisdom, but given the choice between having you in this world or not, I want you in this world. Why, because you are you. Unique and beautiful in your way just as I am unique and beautiful in my way. With love, Vangelo.

ghostrider

19th December 2013, 04:24

DeDukshyn

19th December 2013, 04:29

mosquito

19th December 2013, 04:56

Hi FF, I empathize totally, many similarities on our recent journeys, can't see any future, etc.

BUT - life is already far too short, wishing it away is such a shame. I can only tell you what's working for me, and hope you can find something in it for you .....

I can't plan for a future when I don't believe there is one, so I live for each day, and each moment in each day. I give thanks for the people who are brought into my life for whatever reason, especially those who I can love. I don't know what the future holds, none of us does, so I have to trust in the process, the flow. We are all of us engaged in our own individual awakening process as well as that of the collective. No matter how awake we believe we are, there is always something more.

Look for what gives you joy, look for what gave you joy as a child. Don't judge it, just allow yourself to be who you truly are.

Hang on in there, we are all here to support you, as is the universal consciousness which put you here in the first place ;)

markpierre

19th December 2013, 04:58

That's really interesting Freed. Except that I wasn't inclined to kill myself because I knew it wouldn't solve the problem, I very definitely relate.
Death was just as useless and irrelevant as everything else in my awareness.

My recommendation to you is to just go ahead and die. That's what's occurring anyway.
If you think that means give up the bod, you need to know first that it's your choice,
and only serving or dis-serving your own agenda. You came here for something, you might still like to find out what that is.
No one is particularly interested in what you do other than that you make your own choices.
Anyone or anything that seems to have a say, is either you imagining something within a belief system,
or too interested in your business and not minding their own. There is no one judging anything you do except you.

That being said, add this condition, because it's a choice YOU're making, or think you're making,
and you do have a say about how it goes. See what it's like to die without giving up the body.
If you're left with nothing, you'll still be aware that you're aware. That 'awareness' is the real you.
I sat in that for 10 months before it dawned on me. 10 months of torment for a single realization seemed a bit ridiculous,
but it does qualify me to tell you that you don't have to wait that long. Interestingly I'd do it again for the same outcome.
YOU can't be killed. Neither can your purpose or intention be killed. That may or may not be good news to you, but it was good news to me.
I can be here now and know it's not a mistake, and that I'm not here just to suffer.

It's a bit of a surprise that because everything else in your relative reality is either gone or meaningless,
it can't distract you anymore.
Then you can redesign yourself according to your own REAL values and intentions without a lot of junk to muddy up your perception and enjoyment of yourself. Then you're ready for something brand new.
And you're ready for everyone else.

You got nothing left to lose. What an auspicious place to be. What the hell, what's the worst that can happen? You'll die? Just know I love you for no other reason than hanging in there long enough to reach the point you have. That's incredible.
Choose. I trust you.

Bubu

19th December 2013, 05:14

whenever I feel bad I simply burn all my energy go swimming running basketball biking hit the bag climb cliff etc. till I am spent and aching. Then I go to sleep. If I wake up feeling the same I repeat the process. and then again and again till I am feeling good and looking good.

works for me

Oh and then the anger and frustration burns with my energy too.

Vitalux

19th December 2013, 05:30

...but I should probably try. I need some help.

There's no point in sugar-coating it. I want to die.

You are not alone, but there is a antidote.

There is so much I could try to explain, however some things you can only discover by experience.

Don't take life too serious, it is just a play, a game, an illusion.
Your own mind, your thoughts, your focus control your reality.

You come here just to experience ....to "feel"

The human experience is a total rush!!

Reality, which you create works something like looking at a puppy.
You can focus on the head, or you can focus on the rear end.
The freedom of choice is yours.

I suggest you take a vacation from the Sea of negativity in the rooms we often wander into.

sandy

19th December 2013, 05:42

Dear Freed Fox,

It is okay to be fed up with being human, I can so relate some days. The energies, as others have posted, are much more these days and I observe myself attaching my thoughts to all kinds of Sh*t :) The Holiday Season seems to have a subliminal way of adding to the dynamics of this energy as well...........

All I can say is it is okay to want to be here only in Spirit, especially on days that being human just seems to be too dismal. I'm going to take a few days break, go away for a few days and get out of this uncomfortable zone of attachment. Detach, detach, detach with love and most of all with love for my human self, as this is what is missing.................

Thank you DeDukshyn for reminding one that it is a process and one that repeats again and again...............I'm accepting this fact of life once again..............sigh......... I know this and have posted as much myself............. but my human self, like you Freed so wants it not to be :p

Just keep putting one foot ahead of the other my friend, and keep walking in your authenticity, observing, learning, growing and don't sweat the small stuff like thinking you have to be "positive-Super cheery/friendly-accomodating or heaven forbid likeable or fit in, etc".

My Spirit always knows what to do and that I can trust when I silence the mind chatter and detach......................detaching now with Love Freed my Dear Brother, knowing your Spirit will prevail..........:hug:

lelmaleh

19th December 2013, 06:12

I will try my 2 cents. There are no magic formulas and I agree that life is rough right now for a lot of us, including me. We need you and we all need each other especially now. If you have anyone you can reach out to even if they don't totally understand or something you like to do that isn't perfect but just moves you a little bit so things seem more tolerable even if doesn't fix everything, do it. Everything passes eventually it can just seem intolerable at times but you can get through it. I don't know what your spiritual beliefs are but I think we are here to learn and life doesn't end with suicide and I think we have to deal anyway. If people have hurt you it is usually more about them than you and if circumstances are hard we are taught to think that everything is our fault since we have been so separated from each other. This is planned because when people used to live close together we were there and could help each other. We aren't meant to be so separated and we have false expectation of ourselves. We live in a sick system which exploits us and keeps us separated and feeling like we should be some "independent" autonomous unit. This is crap. It is hard to feel good in a sick system and we just have help each other the best we can but know that you are cared about and appreciated here for who you are.

christian

19th December 2013, 06:45

I want to die.

You are not afraid of death then, it seems. That's good, for you will certainly die! You know, I appreciate many things in this life and can get very enthusiastic, but literally nothing gets me as excited as contemplating that I'm gonna die. I'm so looking forward to this, it's incredible. I'll leave this body—which I really like, but which is also a drag in a way—and travel on lightly with the speed of thought to many exotic and wonderful places, meet amazing spirits, it's gonna be a magnificent journey, I can feel it!

However, the reason why I don't just kill my body is, like you said in your other thread, "I feel an obligation to live." It's a very simple equation in my eyes: Everything is connected with everything. Everything affects everything. You wanna leave Earth and this kind of life behind? There's no way other than going through it, consciously transcending it. There's no escape and no shortcut. You can't just go to another area of all-that-is and expect that you can stay there for good while having the others sort out what's happening elsewhere till the end of time.

So, the solution in my eyes is to pull more of what you want to experience into this reality. All the lightness, beauty, and magic that you desire and consider to be elsewhere can be here as well. That's much of what this whole new paradigm and awakening stuff is all about. When I was in Ecuador, I talked with Brian O'Leary's widow, Meredith, and she told me about some of her experiences with astral travels, all the phenomenal places on the astral that she's been to over the decades. I asked her how she's experiencing all of this today, and she said she's no longer eager to do all that because her whole life is more and more becoming like the worlds that she experienced during these travels, her life is becoming more and more filled with magic, synchronicities, and this exhilarating feel that many think only the realms beyond this world have.

I feel the same way about my life, I don't want to have to go elsewhere to experience all that, I want it right here, and it is manifesting more and more in my life, as I connect with great spirits like you here on this plane and get involved with amazing projects like Avalon! I think one reason why this manifests in my life is that like you I'm not afraid to die, and so I chose that I'm not gonna leave out my fascination for magic and love in any aspect of my life, I don't hold back. I got fired from a job because of that and still don't have any formal degree other than my high school diploma, but guess what, today I'm working on projects that are as exciting and rewarding as it gets. In many ways it's been rough to get through all this to the place where I am today, but it worked, and I do believe I receive support, or, as I like to put it, I work hand in hand with unseen forces, it's really a mutual support. I determined I'll go on this journey as I want to experience it, as best as I can, for what it's worth, working on lifting up consciousness everywhere I go and making the best use of this experience while I'm in it—and then travel on.

So here's what I'd suggest: Create the reality that you desire right where you are. It's not here on this planet yet? Go create it, out of thin air, from the scratch if it needs to be, with the power of your intention. No excuses, no "it's not possible," do what you can and even if you've only come one millimeter closer by the end of the life of your meat suit, you'd be successful. You're already in a state of mind where you're ready to die? Fine, then there's nothing to fear and nothing to lose while you undertake this experiment. Go all-in and see where it gets you. One fine day you will die, and you will die with the certainty that you gave it your best shot to make life on Earth more liveable. I reckon this is our responsibility anyways, we can't escape it anywhere; we're in existence to make every last corner of existence come fully alive, to awaken the magic everywhere.

Thanks for being in all of this with me! :)

skippy

19th December 2013, 06:49

I appreciate your presence and contribution Freed Fox. Your posts are thoughtful, sincere and balanced. Hang in there brother. You are needed. And yes, we do care.

meeradas

19th December 2013, 07:57

I've spent over half a decade 'out in the world', going outside of my comfort zone, trying new things, meeting new people, and on top of all that I have a decent imagination. So I do not speak lightly when I say that there is no life on this planet which will bring me fulfillment. Not like billions of others, with their careers and hobbies and families and lovers. I'm completely incompatible with all of it... I need this to end.

All you've received is... Silence. There's your answer!

Stop thinking.

Start working (out).
Master something (just for yourself, not because of anything else than that).

"Over half a decade". Not really a long desert stretch. I 've seen way longer...

Resilience, my friend.

Sidenote: I can't take it any longer, either.

Jean-Luc

19th December 2013, 07:57

Dear Freed, I am hearing you my friend and sending you much love.

However desperate life may at times be, till I experience what Love is really about, I want to continue the journey.

I also want to thank you for your courage, franchise, honesty, trust and also your beautiful post http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?63289-Death-and-the-Quiet-Miracle

johnf

19th December 2013, 08:30

Freed,
I feel many of the same things you express, but when i really want to die it only lasts at most a week or so before I experience relief. One thing that comes to mind often is I will die eventually why be so impatient.
There is something about the grim humor in that as well as the acknowledgement of the gravity and persistence of my negative feelings that helps get me beyond my projections
of hopelessness.

I take heart in Christians excellent post, and intend to apply his suggestions myself.
What he describes is, I believe, the purpose of this universe.
To create spiritual beauty in a solid universe.
To give the creative force, intelligence that started all this, a way to experience creation from the inside, and to direct the flow of creation consciously, as a sentient part of creation.
Perhaps the very suffering that I am trying to escape in this world is the unformed clay of a happier future in this universe.
Thank you Freed for sharing here, and thank you all who have contributed to this thread.
May we all continue to support each other here.

jf

Crystine

19th December 2013, 08:50

Dear Freed Fox.
Your choice of Avatar means something to you. Does it not? Just a question for you. His eyes are closed. Why?
Hugs,
christine lori

Swan

19th December 2013, 08:58

Hello Freed Fox,

What if you are not here ...for you?

Try...blessing everyone you meet throughout the day, in whatever way that feels appropriate for you.

Ammit

19th December 2013, 09:11

Freed fox, My friend life is a very strange thing.

I understand what you are saying as I have been there too. in my Younger years I hated my existence, felt I was alone in the world and that no one understood me. I did try to end things a few times, but obviously failed!!

I would pray before bed to any thing that would listen and help me die, I would wake in the morning more pissed off because I was still here.

I wont mention how I tried but on my last few attempts, but the very last time I was certain it would work. So sure this was it. As I sat in the middle of a motorway bridge and was just about to slide my ass off the rail, I heard a voice, turning to see who was talking, I saw an old man walking behind me to pass. He said to me that..

"it really was not worth it as things are for a reason, strength will come and you will understand why it is not the time".

I turned to see who it was and, and I saw the back of an old man as he walked away. He said no more, did not turn to look at me and just went on his way.

I made a pact with myself to see what he was on about and here I am, still here and having seen and done many great things and bad things since then and now I do still wonder why I wanted to die, and still I cant explain the man, but, If I had succeeded I would have missed all these wonderful things.

I wont sugar coat a response to you because I understand. I will however say Think about it, dig deep and question why, your answer will come but I do not believe you will get it from prayer. Life will show you.

Now, get off your ass and venture out and see all the grand things the world has, all the animals, the sky, the waters and the people who struggle every day but will not give in.

Only YOU can decide your way forward, only YOU can want to live and only YOU can want to die.

My thoughts and blessings are with you FF. I ask you make the right choice.

freedom4all

19th December 2013, 10:38

Hi Freed Fox
My advice to you is go and see a Holographic Kinetics Practitioner
and get to the cause of the effects your feeling.
I was feeling the same way but am feeling totally different since
having Holographics Kinetics which gets to the cause of the problem,
i must admit i had quite a few sessions cos i had quite a few problems
but i finally feel complete now and know the true meaning of the words
"Everything you need is inside yourself".
Lots of love to you and i hope you find Balance!
FVp_CJ8wHac

Peace&Love

19th December 2013, 11:06

Hello my friend Freed Fox!

You are a true and loving soul, and i understand your words as they resonate very deeply in me. Don't give up just yet.
Give yourself a chance to enjoy this life, set goals that you know you will be happy with in this life, focus on your wishes for your own happiness in this life and you will find it.
If taking and consuming or participating in this pointless everlasting run the world seems to be in is not bringing you joy, then try to dedicate your self to giving and sharing with those who would need it most. We are service to others. This what brings us fullfilment. Yesterday i decided i want to give charity so i went on a website that helps people around the world (mainly developing countries) make a living by giving them 'micro-loans' it called KIVA.org, do you know how great it feels to know that because of you a life and happiness is being created on another side of the world. This is just example, it could be even a hug or a phone call to someone that would appreciate it very much. An animal will return your love unconditionally back to you, love that will fill your heart. By reaching out to others you will see you actually reach to yourself. Try it. Try something. And you will see, it is never too late to find meaning.

Yours,
Peace & Love

chocolate

19th December 2013, 11:15

I want to die.

You are not afraid of death then, it seems. That's good, for you will certainly die! You know, I appreciate many things in this life and can get very enthusiastic, but literally nothing gets me as excited as contemplating that I'm gonna die... I'll leave this body—which I really like, but which is also a drag in a way—and travel on lightly with the speed of thought to many exotic and wonderful places, meet amazing spirits, it's gonna be a magnificent journey, I can feel it!

However, the reason why I don't just kill my body is, like you said in your other thread, "I feel an obligation to live." It's a very simple equation in my eyes: Everything is connected with everything. Everything affects everything. ---> my thoughts, too!

In a situation like this is usually difficult to be objective, because there is always the tendency to become too emotional.
I also don't know anything about you, so I cannot be fully helpful in a way, because it always is a personal solution.
But that is why I will try to share my own solutions for a similar situation, and you can see if anything works for you.

First off, you need to figure out if all your of physical body is in tune. Many, if not all the time, those thoughts come from some physiological issue- lack of some minerals, some hormonal off balance, allergy, food sensitivity, lack of sunshine, etc. My mother went through a very difficult time closely related to what you are experiencing in a way with my help of what I know right now that she has always had problems with her mineral balance, related to thyroid problems, bone problems, mood swings, reproductive problems, food sensitivity, and so on in that line of though.

I also have discovered that I need a lot of sunshine to feel good. During winter and grey autumn I tend to feel really low. Recently I was having some similar to your thoughts. It has been difficult here for quite some time and just in general the more I learn about the people the less I want to be around them, combined with some grey weather and the result is easy to see.
One morning after I woke up I had this strange feeling that something is going to change. In the mornings I usually drink some coffee (lots of it) and read news elsewhere and here, on PA. That is how I found a book, that I read in what seemed like an hour. Than all of a sudden I got the realization that I already know what the life after death is like, and since I know that already I had the desire to want to spend the rest of my physical life in the best possible way.
I will attach the book here after I find it. (recently I lost my hard drive and now is a bit of a problem to relocate all my books and documents).

I also learned an interesting point of view. One female with some similar problem was explaining her side of the same story and how a doctor managed to help her. His advice to her was to stop focusing on how she feels and to switch her attention on the outside world, to try and be helpful for someone else. She said that that had changed the way she feels dramatically.
I have experienced that to be true also.

I find during searching distraction a lot of empowering information all the time. Not only in books, but in films, reading news, creative activities like painting, etc. I loved recently "Fringe" (the TV series from 2008 to 2013) (of all possible things). I watched all the seasons in three days! Not because they a great entertainment. For me they contain a lot of truth and answers that oftentimes get overlooked by people searching for the quick fix of the entertainment.

You also may find this book very interesting to read:
http://www.amazon.com/UFOs-Year-Dragon-Lou-Baldin-ebook/dp/B009L40WBI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1387449324&sr=8-1&keywords=lou+baldin It tells the story of a boy to become a man and his unusual experiences, mostly with what we call ETs. But the idea is that we are almost all ETs living on Earth for a reason. You don't need to believe in it, but if you read it you may start to relate to a lot that has been written in it. Take it from a a non-believer! :)

Another way to ask for help is with what is called in shamanism "the help form the animal spirits". If you know how to quiet your mind, take headphones with 30 minutes rattle snake or drumming music and mentally ask an animal to assist you in a journey to discover what your issues are and possible solution. For about 30 minutes of a quiet journey with the help of that noise (drumming) to keep you alert, you may encounter an animal spirit. You need to follow it, and see where this all leads. Don't expect anything specific, just go with the flow. I guess you may know this already hence your avatar.

Recently there was a video posted on the forum about a woman that communicates with animals. I found it, as simple as it is, the second most important revelation of these past few month in my life. This life is really an interesting quest. The more that you see and realize the more you will see it becomes larger in every direction. I usually think that the cure for a lot of issues is curiosity.

Many of us are just made to be more sensitive in most aspects of life right now. We come here hardwired to be more sensitive just to figure out a way to change this world for ourselves and for the others (like the case with you and me right now here) so that it feels a pleasure to live, more in balance with what is normal, not in constant pain and discomfort.
Being sensitive is an advantage in my opinion. I needed to learn this on my own, but I think it is true. The fact that we don't really fit in that skewed model is not because we are flawed, but probably because the model and the system are.

And last, but not least, let go of your desire to do, or to be anything or anywhere. Just drop all of your thinking and wanting for a while, go on lead by your intuitive self as much as you can. When the small devil starts pulling you into the so called solid world again, restrain yourself temporarily from acting on that and continue exploring the invisible world. Sometimes one needs to put some effort to stay off the normal life situations to be able to circumvent the chain and go a bit deeper. I think most of us who don't quite fit in right now are just used to live in a more deeper way than what is accepted right now.
The result of this may really surprise you.

I know for a fact what we think life is, is different from what it truly is. And we are very little consciously aware of its complexity and simplicity. People often say 'don't take life too seriously', but I usually say 'look beyond the visible and you will find everything you need', all answers are waiting for you.
The most important thing is that you need to be still alive in the material world for this to happen.

:)

I managed to write more than I usually do with the hope that it will be of help.
I'll come back to post, at least the name, of the first book I mentioned.

chocolate

19th December 2013, 11:31

The book is called "Life in the World Unseen" by Anthony Borgia: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zib5a2kq1ysz8ce/Anthony%20Borgia%20-%20Life%20In%20The%20World%20Unseen.pdf
and another one ;): https://www.dropbox.com/s/xcy951n7a9l06su/Zero%20Limits.pdf (Zero Limits)

May your journey be peaceful!

silverfish

19th December 2013, 14:43

freed fox as with many others I can strongly relate to your feelings . I have come to a point that I don't know if anything would be changed with the lose of my physical body, we are eternal .When we let go of our body do we let go of our discontent or our judgment. I think they, our turmoil go with us they are not residents of our physical body .
It is only in really letting go deeply and fully of these issues , that we are free ,no matter our form .
Then, there is a place of no expectation and only a place of wonder .
This is where my battle lies ,to realise that it is my hands and it will stop when I let go of all my judgement .
from a fish to a fox , I wish you peace

silverfish

19th December 2013, 14:56

chocolate
this video came to my mind also and had felt it important for freed fox but the link I had wouldn't work. I will try to find another .
We have soo many more levels of the game to open !!

Recently there was a video posted on the forum about a woman that communicates with animals. I found it, as simple as it is, the second most important revelation of these past few month in my life. This life is really an interesting quest. The more that you see and realize the more you will see it becomes larger in every direction. I usually think that the cure for a lot of issues is curiosity.

found one hope it works !!
KIOXZLUAfXw

silverfish

learninglight

19th December 2013, 15:18

FREDFOX YOU ARE A WONDERFUL BEAUTIFUL BEING OF MARVERLOUS ENGRGY IN A PLACE OF LEARNING THAT IS HARD BECAUSE YOU ARE LOVING CARING AND FULL OF COMPASSION CRY SCREAM SHOUT GET IT OUT THE EMOTIONS NEED RELEASE. DON'T THINK ABOUT TOMORROW, THE NEXT HOUR, JUST GO WITH EACH MINUTE AS IT COMES
DEATH IS NOT THE ANSWER, I know i've tried it too. YOU ARE LOVED,

sharon

spiritwind

19th December 2013, 15:35

Hello Freed Fox,

You have probably looked up Fox in Jammie Sams and David Carson’s Medicine Cards book, but in case you haven’t…

Fox represents camouflage and has many allies in nature.
“Fox’s ability to be unseen allows it to be the protector of the family unit. If danger arises, Fox is Johnny-on-the-spot. Nanih Waiya, Great Spirit of the Choctaw tongue, honors Fox with the duty of keeping the family together and safe. This is accomplished through Fox’s ability to observe undetected, without making others self-conscious (a great attribute BTW). Fox is always concerned with the safety of family members…”

So, if you sometimes feel invisible (or wish you were by not being here), remember, this is part of your gift. I have read many of your posts and I have always enjoyed them. Everyone of us is needed here now. Even I have spent many years of my life not wanting to be here, only in recent years having finally turned a corner of sorts (although I still have my moments/days) and deciding that come what may, I will do my best to be fully present. I even got into an argument years ago with a college instructor over how to tell someone who has self esteem issues how they can get some. He probably thought I was nuts and, he couldn’t answer my question either. I too, truly believe that despite the emerging story of our past, present, and possible futures, and the difficulties inherent in realizing that everything your parents, peers, religions, politicians, educators etc. have taught you about the world is wrong (How can that be!), that there is something of positive value to be gained by being in a physical body at this time. I cannot tell you for sure what it is but I also believe that those who are currently in charge of this mass deception would just love it if indeed all of us who are waking up would just drop dead. For that reason alone I am going to stick around. I hope you do too.

Vitalux

19th December 2013, 15:44

Delight

19th December 2013, 16:13

Hi Freed Fox,
I have enjoyed reading your posts. You are a deep investigator and committed to your purpose. I wonder if you know "The work" of Byron Katie at all. Her questions starting with "Is this true" about all thoughts have helped me quite a bit. http://www.thework.com/byronkatie.php. I believe you can actually contact a practitioner on the phone anytime. http://www.instituteforthework.com/itw/content/helpline

I have moments that feel quite like you. These are moments though and if I literally sit still and let the feeling be as strong as possible, the feeling changes. There may be old programming that is speaking and not "you" and by confronting it by not distracting from the feeling, the programming cannot work.

IMO feeling bereft, lonely, unlovable and "friendless" (meaning all the ways the world used to being friendly tokens evaporates) is something that must just be endured because we have accumulated these thoughts. They dissolve only as one digests them.

All the platitudes about "emptiness, the unknown, silence, stillness" yielding "reality" is true. The ego does not "go there". I could tell you all day that your loss of interest in superficial mundane life is actually a sign post of "success" in approaching "verity". it could not help. I do challenge that your thoughts are true however and that this depression will be lasting.

I am very fortunate to have 3 close friends with whom I meet every week. We have been meeting two years and we support each other. They cannot change my thoughts and beliefs but they are witnesses (and I for them) to change.

What I invision is you surrounded by your friends.

Robin

19th December 2013, 16:58

Hello, my friend.

Every time these same thoughts manifest inside me, which is quite often, I find comfort in this video. Let ol' Samwise give you a beacon of hope:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Soe8ayi3ScE

Mike

19th December 2013, 18:05

this is the part where I'm supposed to offer some encouraging words, I know...but I have to say honestly that I can kinda relate with you brother. (sister?)

ive been thru some extremely trying times myself, and while I'd like to report that it's my profound will to live that's kept me going, it's really more than likely my cowardice. maybe if I wasn't such a b!tch i would have jumped in front of a truck or jumped off a really high bridge by now. who knows???

but every time i find myself thinking like this i think of my Mom. my poor Mom - I'd just ruin her if i did anything like that. is there anyone in your life that will cause you some pause when confronted with these feelings? i know a shrink will likely tell you it's unhealthy to live exclusively for someone else, but it's a start.

i had a friend recently kill himself. it leaves a path of destruction, let me tell you. his brother wasn't entirely stable to begin with, and now I'm afraid he's heading for an early end. his mother, who is still quite distraught, couldn't take another blow like that. so you can see how it becomes a chain reaction. you have to consider your responsibility to others.

chocolate

19th December 2013, 18:18

silverfish, that was the video.
All my life I felt strange for feeling this connection to animals, and not only to them. When I saw the video I immediately recognized the familiar feeling. And decided I am not so weird after all. But I had to chose to think like that, no one else.

Vitalux, all those kick-ass books I found in a thread on PA- http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?9462-Interesting-Free-Books-in-PDF thanks to Bill's reminder sometime ago.

I hope Freed Fox will come by and read all the words we have gathered here.
But as always it is a personal choice.
I hope he will make his own based not just on a temporarily unstable situation. We have all been there, some deeper than others, but that is a part of the learning process. And there is always a very simple solution- giving up on the things we have grasped in our hands/minds so desperately. Everything else that follows is only better and more beautiful. Imagine you come on planet Earth (quite a wonderful place) without knowing anything, without having anything, without all the things we cling to when we search for the meaning of all. If you can put yourself in this situation you will see that in is all based on your perception, judgement and thinking.
Change your thoughts to change your life.
But do some general check up on your physical body first. The machine needs to be in good condition. ;)

jagman

19th December 2013, 18:20

Hello FF
I read both of your threads yesterday and thought about you last night. I was left with
more questions than answers. So I went to your page and looked at your about me stuff
still more questions. So I then started going thru your threads and posts, quite a bit of
material for just a year here but very good quality. FF, You seem to be a bit of an enigma.
Fred, I know you have had some serious medical problems and that in itself can cause deep
depression but you have stated that you have always felt this way. I'm Just trying to
understand you a bit better my friend. Life has it's ups amd downs but when you say I
just want to check out that is a huge copout. Service to others is the best way to achieve
true fulfillment. So what does that mean for you? You have to decide Fred. What was the
best day you ever had Fred and why? I would like to see that thread.

Albert Einstein once said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".

Johnny

19th December 2013, 18:32

...but I should probably try. I need some help.

Dear Freed Fox.

What a mess you are in, and I think most of us, if not all of us, answering this tread has been there, at least in the emotions.

We consist of layers upon layers upon layers, and you can go on.

Here is a little aphorism: You can't see the whole picture unless you are outside the frame.

IMO there are only small steps, but some of these steps can have a huge impact. Make a decision to do the 'work', take a deep breath and let it begin, and remember to have patience with yourself, and also quickly learn to laugh at yourself.

Much love Johnny

Johnny

19th December 2013, 18:41

Hello FF
Albert Einstein once said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".

SSSHHHH Jagman !! Do you know have many times I have played the lottery :)

Freed Fox

19th December 2013, 19:56

There is a lot to expand upon and reply to here, but I'll try to address some things in general to give a clearer picture. I want to first thank you all, from the bottom of my heart. Not everything I'm about to say is going to sound altogether grateful, but I am grateful to have you and this place. There is simply no one in my physical space with whom I can have this conversation openly and honestly, and expect any subsequent understanding... but even here, with your open minds, loving hearts, and varied experiences, I still feel as if I am bound to fail in conveying where I stand and where this is all coming from.

I've had several service jobs in the past, with varying results and impacts. The last job I had was an internship at a urology clinic. I did derive some gratification from assisting others, but it was always fairly fleeting. The experience ultimately showed me that I want nothing to do with the healthcare field, medicine as a business. I saw how jaded several of my coworkers had become, clocking in and out, and it seemed almost inevitable that the emotional distance widens over time in that line of work. Things as simple as patients arriving late or canceling appointments were annoying inconveniences to my colleagues who either gave little thought to that person's reasons for that behavior or simply didn't really care.

That's a bit beside the point, because the bottom line with all of these service occupations was that at the end of the day I was still miserable. The people who make it work for them, in my estimation, are those who have something or someone in their personal lives to turn to, who/which make them happy.

Music was the best thing I had. I was in a successful band for a while. You might think, "great, get back into that". However, I was eventually kicked out of the band because I was going through this and they couldn't handle it. I really cared for my band mates, perhaps even more than the band itself, but that was proven not to be reciprocal. As a result, I found playing music on my own to be too painful, reminding me of those people and how much I cared about them, and how much it hurt when they wholly rejected me, kicking me to the curb. I therefore sold my instruments, and currently I don't have the kind of finances to pick it up again.

Trying to look at this objectively I would say that my health problems are probably a large-ish piece of the puzzle. I certainly don't consider it to be the most fundamental or important problem, but it contributes.

I've never had a girlfriend and up until this past year I was nearly obsessed with changing that. I've always had a deep longing for an intimate sexual relationship, but it's never happened. I had friends telling me to just be patient, relax, be myself, and eventually I would find someone. I tried my very best to follow their advice but something deep down told me that they were wrong. Now, nearly ten years after that phase kicked off, I somehow can't derive any satisfaction from the fact that I was absolutely right.

Now I've moved back to my home town which is officially in the middle of nowhere, making my prospects even worse. Also for finding any valuable resource, like a Holographic Kinetics practitioner. And I simply don't have the monetary resources to travel.

There's more still, but it gets much harder to describe. You see, the aforementioned desire to find love lead to perhaps my first and deepest 'dark night of the soul'. I was living in an apartment with two people I had not known before hand, and it eventually became crystal clear that these two individuals were not only terrible people, but pretty much despised me. I could actually hear them on a variety of occasions making fun of me for my health problems mentioned earlier (the aspects they were aware of, which thank god were very little of the big picture).

I had these psilocybin mushrooms left over from about a week prior; the first such experience I'd ever had during which I had taken that first dose with two friends. I was in a state where I just didn't care and I needed some kind of escape immediately (however leaving my residence and going somewhere in public was far from an escape, to me). So, against what would have been my better judgement I took them alone in that room, in a psychological state which was very likely inadvisable to be doing so.

This was when I made my first connection with 'the fox'.

I don't know if it was my animal totem, or a spirit guide, or what. I really don't. At the time, and for quite some time afterward, I believed it to be my true self, somehow hidden or restrained (and I still lean in that direction, to be perfectly honest, but I recognize that I cannot be certain).

What I experienced was not only an incredible sense of love but, what was more, almost orgasmic ecstasy. People who delve into psychedelics can tell you that your psychological state beforehand typically determines the nature of your trip. By all accounts and reason, I should have had an absolutely terrible experience. In truth it was utterly the contrary, and that experience may have saved my life, and given me the strength to get this far.

The most bizarre aspect of it, and what lead me to believe in the presence actually being myself (perhaps my 'Higher Self') is this; I felt strong physical sensations as if I was becoming the fox. But it wasn't just a fox, as can be found in nature, but a fox-man of sorts.

This is what takes my story pretty firmly into 'crazy town', and why it feels impossible for me to really truly relate the way I feel with other people. It's hard to admit even here, among you genuine, compassionate, open-minded people... but it is nonetheless the deepest and closest to the REAL truth I have ever felt.

I had the sensation as though my body was changing, that I was becoming this 'fox-man' (think Anubis; bipedal, upright posture, but with the head and various features of a fox such as fur and a tail). The feeling that accompanied it was almost indescribable, but I feel it is something akin to what people around here talk about in regard to enlightenment, or 'ascension', or various other related concepts. It was as if the reality I had always known was shifting, or that indeed a veil was being lifted. What was underneath was so much more fluid than this reality, but also more intense and refined. I liken it to living your whole life as if watching an old television, with bad reception and faded colors, and then suddenly switching to a high-end HDTV. Perhaps most of all, I felt alive. I mean, like I have never felt before. More alive than the greatest surge of adrenaline, the most secure sense of belonging, the greatest elation doesn't even compare to it. Pervading all of it was an underlying presence of greater potential and above all else a sort of all-knowing, perfect, unconditional love. It did not feel like it was coming from within me, but rather that it was all around me. I had never read about the concept of "Source" by that particular point in time, but this experience singularly made me a believer in it.

Now, I know that so many critics and materialists would simply point to the mushrooms. It was all a hallucination. I fiercely don't want to believe that to be true. And although I have been able to touch upon this place at least a handful of times since then through meditation, it is incredibly disappointing to me that the transformation I was perceiving was evidently not a true physical manifestation and furthermore that I can only glance the tip of that iceberg, never truly getting there again on my own. Not fully.

I have some tangential beliefs tied to this experience. The concept of the 'matrix' factors into it. It has lead me to believe that nothing is as it seems, and that place I was offered a glimpse of is the true underlying reality which we are somehow being barred from. It lead me to believe that perhaps somehow, some way this can be transcended. But in the very few instances wherein I have felt close to it, it goes away (or it is snatched away, impossible to say). It is even more disappointing to me that people describe similar phenomena but imply that the exterior reality doesn't really change, just their outlook. As if the key is to simply accept things and settle for less. I just don't believe in that. I can't believe in that. And if that absolutely mundane version of 'enlightenment' was ever confirmed for me, then suicide wouldn't even be an escape so much of an act of spite against it and all of the false promises that there is something more.

I'm sorry, but I want to say again a deep and sincere thank you to everyone here, and particularly those who manage to make it through this likely overdrawn post. These are simply my best attempts to convey this conundrum as it seems to exist for me. I say again, and not at all lightly, thank you.

Robin

19th December 2013, 20:24

Man, Freed Fox, I feel you. I can relate to much of what you have to say. Many of us here can.

I often post such things linking our reality with the Lord of the Rings, because it personally gives me great hope for myself and humanity. Tolkien wrote the story as a fictional representation of our reality, and it is riddled in metaphors.

We are all Frodo. We all have this ring that we carry, which we must destroy on our path to enlightenment. It is such a burden! We are all truly alone on our personal journeys. No matter what advice anybody can give, only you can conquer your inner demons. And nothing is more satisfying when we conquer ourselves.

Yeah...women. I also feel you on that front. There is nothing wrong at all whatsoever living a solitary life, but I understand the longing for female companionship. I have avoided intimate relationships with women because I simply have not found the right woman for me yet. I'd rather wait a lifetime searching for a partner to spend one year with a beloved before I die, than make mistakes and fall for a woman who is not right for me, and vice versa.

I think we create our own reality. The sooner you conquer your inner demons and find your true self...the sooner you will draw in loving people, especially a beloved, and experiences to you.

Some more consolation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RemBy5yeW8g

silverfish

19th December 2013, 21:40

Freed fox
Your fox-man experience sounds astounding .I am not a great reader or writer but your words are very fluid and had my body experiencing fur and ears in joy of you expression .thankyou I can see why it feels to little to be other than that .

As if the key is to simply accept things and settle for less. I just don't believe in that. I can't believe in that.
I don't think anyone would suggest you settle for less . The vid " the animal communicator " I posted above is very much about accessing more . its very much about the layers of our being hidden and to be discovered . They do not claim to be one offs but this is within all of us we need to relearn and open this part of our selves up .
Im sorry to have posted again and some post you will resonate with more than others but I have struggled with many of these issues of isolation ,low self esteem , loneliness ,value in my life so in your ability to express your self and be so open you have done us all here a service and allowed a space for this discussion and for that I thank you

silver

Knowrainknowrainbows!

19th December 2013, 21:59

Freed Fox, my heart goes out to you ... I appreciate your follow up post providing some specifics which help us ( the PA Family) better understand where you're coming from on spiritual, emotional and physical levels. Still, questions abound ...

Beautiful, thoughtful, and some very practical suggestions/feedback has been offered ... much you've heard and/or tried before no doubt.
I don't know your age ... But I sense you are an old soul ... deep wisdom is evident.

I am soon to be 57. I lost both parents by age 15. I wanted to die, too, a few times in my life. But I also wanted to live.
I knew there was a bigger picture ... And that ending my life was not the solution.

Old souls "just know" stuff.

So, working in the medical arena is not for you and you worked alongside people who had become cynical or burned out?
That's easy to happen. It takes a lot of energy to live consciously... to CHOOSE to smile, be polite, place others needs first on a consistent basis. But thankfully, with practice, it gets easier.

Grief, depression, anxiety are thieves. Unmet expectations can build resentment and ultimately dis-ease.
Each person experiences life as a unique journey altho much of what we experience is also universal... a wonder-filled paradox this is!
Hope ... my mind and heart are sending waves of love and light your way.

The answers do lie within (You know all this already). The key is having a connection with someone or something that allows answers to life lessons to be revealed at the right time and in a non-traumatic way ... Choose to live, Freed Fox ... One day at a time ...

Mind your nutrition and sleep habits. Make a conscious decision to take small steps in a healthier way... Allow the sunshine to bless your skin and the wind to lift your spirit on a daily basis whenever possible.

You are not your maladies, Feed Fox! Look around ... if others overcame so can you ... if you want. I hope you will feel hope ... I'm sending it on a breeze! :thumb:

Thank you for sharing ... You reminded me of some internal work (lessons) still waiting my attention ... :o

No Rain No Rainbows
Know Rain Know Rainbows
:hippie:

Milneman

19th December 2013, 22:02

Milneman

19th December 2013, 23:35

And because when the mood is right, and it certainly feels right, Puccini always can say it best.

This is for you Foxy

from "Tosca" Met Opera (C) 2011 Conducted by James Levine...the great Karita Matilla.

The lyrics:

I lived for my art, I lived for love,
I never did harm to a living soul!
With a secret hand
I relieved as many misfortunes as I knew of.
Always with true faith
my prayer
rose to the holy shrines.
Always with true faith
I gave flowers to the altar.
In the hour of grief
why, why, o Lord,
why do you reward me thus?
I gave jewels for the Madonna’s mantle,
and I gave my song to the stars, to heaven,
which smiled with more beauty.
In the hour of grief
why, why, o Lord,
ah, why do you reward me thus?

45bdBpwtzhg

wolf_rt

19th December 2013, 23:44

Hi Freed Fox,
I understand very well what you are going through. I was there myself not 2 months ago.

The thing that has helped me enormously has been buddhist meditation...

Now let me be very clear, this is not something i WANTED to do, although i had an interest, being in a state like you describe, it is very hard to muster the will to want to do anything.
I was dragged along to the local buddhist centre by my mother.

And i was shown some VERY simple ways to affect my state of mind.... simple AND effective.
This had little to do with meditation (although you may find that a useful tool to regain the higher state of consciousness you experienced after taking mushrooms)

The eureka moment came from an understanding of Buddhist ethics. This is an ethics of intent, not action.

Basically there are two states of mind SKILLFUL and UNSKILLFUL
being in a skilful state of mind will make you and others happy, unskilful states will make you and others unhappy.

Skilful states are:

Contentment
Love/kindness
Truthfulness
Clarity

Unskilful states are: (any negative state of mind/feelings can be traced to these root causes)

Craving for sense pleasure (all craving)
Ill will
Restlessness / Anxiety
Sloth / Torpor
Confusion / Ignorance

Now here is where the magic happens.
You can't analyze your way out of depression, trust me i have tried, you just end up feeding the problem.
The trick is to turn your unskilful mental state into a skilful one (sounds hard, but it's really not)

Whenever you notice an unskilful mental state arise, apply one of these 4 antidotes

1. Consider the consequences. of continuing to harbour the unskillful state
2. Cultivate the opposite. (my favourite) if you feel ill will toward yourself, then spend some time cultivating a feeling of loving kindness toward yourself (doesn't matter if you think you dont deserve it, JUST DO IT :-) )
3. Observe with a 'sky like mind'. let the feeling be, but don't feed it or associate with it, just observe it, and let it pass
4. Consciously repress it. A last resort, but consciously repressing a negative feeling is better than allowing it to continue unchecked.

Applying these four antidotes whenever you notice one of the five hindrances arise will REALLY, ACTUALLY, TRULY 'change your mind' for the better, with very fast results.
If there is a Buddhist centre (or a Buddhist) near you approach them for help... it's the best thing i ever did.
If not, then at least find some online resources to guide you in this practice.

Oh and go and spend 20 minutes sitting peacefully conjuring up some loving kindness toward yourself, do it now... remember the antidotes as you do it. Do it for me if necessary, you can consider it payment to me for me spending 20 minutes writing this post.

PS.. If you kill yourself, you can all but guarantee you will be back to try again, so dont do that... :-)

meat suit

20th December 2013, 17:53

Fred there is strong energies attacking everyone , yesterday my wife and I argued, we have not argued since being married ten years ago , not once until yesterday ... hang in there , the cloud will part , a clear sky will appear, better days will come ... we are all in a battle for the mind ... we are here for you ...

Still part of the process ;) I have had the same experience, ghostrider - oddly enough (pretty severe stuff- last three days or so, for me). Keeps us on our toes, my 2 cents ;)

I am with you guys, its a bastard of a vibe getting under my skin too these days....
Freed Fox, I can totally relate to your opening post....
I am battling it via the medicinal route... St Johns wort and omega3 oil 3 x a day to lift that dark mood....
might work for you too...
cheers meat

Camilo

20th December 2013, 19:23

Hang in there FF. Take one day at a time. You're not alone, and you're not the only one going through this situation. The planet and humanity at large are going through a major influx of energies never experienced before, and don't know how to deal with them. Together we'll find the way to do it. Be at peace.

Sierra

20th December 2013, 20:57

What can I say?

I know you're not going to believe me because of where you are at right now, Foxy, but you are so close to the gate. You literally have got your hand on the handle.

You are now in the fight of your life. The black forest is going to fight to keep you where you are because it knows it needs to keep you where you are at. The harder the fight is, the stronger you really are; they need to keep you thinking these things about who you are to keep you from becoming what you are.

What are you?

A mystic, of course. A poetic mystic.

So, as someone sitting in a sunlit room with rainbows all around me, a dead tree blossoming into new life beside me, and little glass cubes filled with water, fish, and plants, who knows that my own experience tells me we are in the same fellowship, DO NOT GIVE UP! DON'T YOU F'n DARE! FIGHT with EVERYTHING YOU HAVE FOXY! And if you don't have the energy to fight, YOU LET US FIGHT FOR YOU UNTIL YOU CAN!

I MEAN IT!

I will project my aspidastrus out of my body and come and KICK yours!

Let us LOVE you until you can LOVE yourself.

(((((XO)))))

Milneman is right. :) sometimes we need to be carried, we are so exhausted from the struggle...

It sounds like you are going through what is called the dark night of the soul, where all support is removed, G*d (or your equivalent) is not there, and you sit in a pit of your darkest shadows, that proceed to destroy your self-esteem in a myriad of ways.

I sat in a pit once for four years... Until it dawned on me these feelings were not valid, they were being taken too seriously, and causing imbalance within me.

The answer I found is self love. (Caren saw it dawn on me in the H&N thread that I loved myself lol...) (finally, in my sixties)

It is SO painful to see you in this state, because you are a high soul (which also explains why your night is so dark), and we are anxiously banging on your heart, don't go, persevere, endure, wait, breathe, accept you belong here and you are loved.

You have no idea the energy a high soul radiates, even when they wish to die (which is not a stupid reaction to what we see around us, no it is not). You are needed, we need you. We need you standing on earth, being you, seeing what you see, knowing what you know.

I was very suicidal in my youth, until my father hung himself. I saw I could not do that to my family, and no matter how much I hated myself, I was needed. The only answer I've ever found, is to love myself, as I loved others.

Do not go. Treasure yourself, see how we treasure you when you have been here such a short while.

Love, love, love Sierra

Freed Fox

21st December 2013, 16:27

Reading through these comments again, I cannot thank you all enough.

I hesitate to make any statements for the long term, but for the short term the heaviness has lifted a bit. At least, I am no longer actively contemplating my way out. In contrast to, for instance, my first 'dark night' that I mentioned earlier, which was tied to and evoked/strengthened by certain specific thoughts (being alone), this seems much more generalized. It doesn't seem associated with any particular trains of thought. It feels more existential.

It seems as though there are two opposite ends of a spectrum which lead to at least some relief from this. One is through distraction, as mentioned earlier, though I have been finding that harder this time around. That would be the 'passive' defense, I guess. The other, 'active' end is through considering the wealth of love and support you have all shared here with me, and feeling that it is in fact genuine. To be perfectly honest, I do not feel that I deserve it, but I will not reject it.

Just know that you guys and this place have been a life-line for me. I can't say for certain what would have happened otherwise, but with the way things were going before this 'intervention', I very well might not have still been here. Due to still not quite being out of the woods just yet, that in itself doesn't entirely feel like a blessing. But you guys are. As I said... I don't feel like I can ever thank you enough.

I'm going to try looking for some more long-term, stable solutions to avoid being brought back down here. It sounds like loving myself is a fairly common recommendation, but as I'm sure Sierra and others like her who have been on such a long road can attest, it's much more easily said than done.

Still...thank you. A thousand times, thank you.

Johnny

21st December 2013, 16:35

Knowrainknowrainbows!

21st December 2013, 17:17

Welcome back indeed!

It takes energy to even have the desire for things to improve ... so glad your motivation has reawakened ... small steps are enough.

Who said, "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"?

And yes ... you are most definitely worth it ... and your presence here is soooo valuable.

Best,
KRKR
;)

Crystine

21st December 2013, 22:37

The following is a quote from Milneman
------------------------------
I know you're not going to believe me because of where you are at right now, Foxy, but you are so close to the gate. You literally have got your hand on the handle.

You are now in the fight of your life. The black forest is going to fight to keep you where you are because it knows it needs to keep you where you are at. The harder the fight is, the stronger you really are; they need to keep you thinking these things about who you are to keep you from becoming what you are.

What are you?

A mystic, of course. A poetic mystic.

So, as someone sitting in a sunlit room with rainbows all around me, a dead tree blossoming into new life beside me, and little glass cubes filled with water, fish, and plants, who knows that my own experience tells me we are in the same fellowship, DO NOT GIVE UP! DON'T YOU F'n DARE! FIGHT with EVERYTHING YOU HAVE FOXY! And if you don't have the energy to fight, YOU LET US FIGHT FOR YOU UNTIL YOU CAN!

I MEAN IT!

I will project my aspidastrus out of my body and come and KICK yours

Let us LOVE you until you can LOVE yourself.

(((((XO)))))[/QUOTE]

---------------------------

The following is a quote from Sierra

--------------------------------

Milneman is right. :) sometimes we need to be carried, we are so exhausted from the struggle...

It sounds like you are going through what is called the dark night of the soul, where all support is removed, G*d (or your equivalent) is not there, and you sit in a pit of your darkest shadows, that proceed to destroy your self-esteem in a myriad of ways.

I sat in a pit once for four years... Until it dawned on me these feelings were not valid, they were being taken too seriously, and causing imbalance within me.

The answer I found is self love. (Caren saw it dawn on me in the H&N thread that I loved myself lol...) (finally, in my sixties)

It is SO painful to see you in this state, because you are a high soul (which also explains why your night is so dark), and we are anxiously banging on your heart, don't go, persevere, endure, wait, breathe, accept you belong here and you are loved.

You have no idea the energy a high soul radiates, even when they wish to die (which is not a stupid reaction to what we see around us, no it is not). You are needed, we need you. We need you standing on earth, being you, seeing what you see, knowing what you know.

I was very suicidal in my youth, until my father hung himself. I saw I could not do that to my family, and no matter how much I hated myself, I was needed. The only answer I've ever found, is to love myself, as I loved others.

Do not go. Treasure yourself, see how we treasure you when you have been here such a short while.

Love, love, love Sierra[/QUOTE]

-----------------------------------------

Freed Fox. Let yourself be loved. You are worthy of being loved. It's good to accept strength from others when one becomes tired.

Love and light
Christine Lori
24216

Milneman

21st December 2013, 23:32

Congrats, Foxy. You just opened the gate.

Freed Fox

22nd December 2013, 00:57

Congrats, Foxy. You just opened the gate.

So that's why it's so drafty in here...

(Hey look at that, a joke :p).

I suppose the next item on the agenda would be to take a step through the threshold? And further, I suppose that you're about to tell me next that, actually, THAT is the hardest part?
I'm still not quite sure what the 'gate' represents here, to be perfectly honest with you Milneman.

Anyway, just today I reminded myself of something I thought about a couple of months back and posted here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?64663-Infinity-Lifetimes-of-Calibration). It may not actually be altogether original, and there may be schools of thought/spiritual philosophies out there which say something similar to that effect of which I'm not aware.

At any rate, it boils down to the idea that, in addition to learning and growing (expanding consciousness), new souls are also on a journey to find something of a best fit for them within the infinite possibilities of the cosmos (or the multi-verse, if you're so inclined). I think most around here view hardships and suffering as catalysts for personal growth and development of the soul/consciousness. Presumably, it is because at some point our souls split from Source initially, and are subsequently in an utterly inexperienced and un-developed state. But also, if the multi-verse/cosmos truly are infinite in scope (which I tend to think they are, or at least approaching such vastness), then the choices and possibilities would be overwhelming for anyone, let alone a 'fresh soul'. So, we are all bound to live at least a life or two which feels like an utter mismatch for us personally, even lives which seem entirely, intrinsically wrong to us.

BUT, as long as we make some progress in coming to know ourselves - our true inner essences - during these lifetimes, then nothing is lost but rather only gained. We come to understand, sometimes by simple virtue of contrast, what it is we truly desire deep down inside. When I say desire, though, I speak of those which are not harmful or destructive, but rather our inner callings which typically revolve around feelings of belonging, harmony, and love.

Perhaps there is a greater purpose beyond even that, and that we can all transform this world for the better (or other such high minded spiritual endgames). However, if I can operate with the above as my 'baseline' belief, and REALLY believe that the insights I have gained about myself here will be implemented and put to good use upon my death, I can move forward making the best of all of this and not get so caught up in how dismal it feels at times; almost constantly feeling homesick without even knowing precisely where 'home' even is. It still doesn't necessarily make it all easy, but if I can keep that faith somehow, I feel it will certainly become at least somewhat easier.

Plus, as a few of you mentioned, I do have certain, more selfless concerns keeping me here, at least for the time being. I really don't want to hurt my family. Even if they do seem less than concerned at times, I know that they do care. It would be nice if I could have these kinds of conversations with them, but alas... As I said to someone recently via PM; the people closest to me right now (spiritually) are strangely all far away (physically). But you people are incredible and, as I mentioned, life savers.

Freed Fox

22nd December 2013, 02:24

Something else I meant to mention, which seems relevant...

Last night, as I've been doing for awhile now since this most recent dark night started, I asked for guidance or reassurance prior to briefly meditating and then subsequently falling asleep.

Unlike the other nights, though, I came away with recollection of a dream that may have been providing just that. While I do believe there is a greater importance to at least some dreams, whether they be glimpses into alternate planes or messages from our higher selves, there also seem to be dreams which are really of no consequence. Really mundane or ordinary dreams which seem to be fulfilling the more scientifically accepted idea that our minds are merely sifting through and processing things from our past or day-to-day experience.

Anyway, Samwise; you're probably going to like this one.

In the dream, I was Frodo. I was with a company of companions who were being pursued by some very aggressive barbarian types, who seemed intent on killing us. We escaped from some kind of castle where they were residing, but realized that one of us (Bilbo, actually) had been left behind. We went to work preparing some kind of special brew which we intended to give to Bilbo upon our return, which would grant him the strength to defeat one of the barbarians in battle. We finished our work and I rushed at once to deliver it to him. However, upon reaching the castle, I discovered that we were too late and he had been killed.

I recall feeling extremely saddened by this discovery; the sense of personal loss seemed quite real. However, shortly after this, my perspective shifted and I was no longer Frodo. I was 'outside' of the whole scenario and realized at once that it was all a game of some kind. Although the drama had seemed so real while being engaged within it, it was brought into an entirely different light when I reached this place that was seemingly 'above' it.

I took this to have certain implications regarding this life, which I'm sure I don't need to spell out (as some of you have stated yourselves; all of life is but a stage). It is exceedingly hard to grasp that concept while you're on the stage itself, but nonetheless could very well be a true and potent perspective to utilize.

Again, I can't say for certain that this was some kind of divine insight. There are a few, VERY rare dreams which I've had that were without a doubt something significant, based on the level and depth of symbolism and intense emotions and sensations contained therein. This was kind of on the borderline, but still something I suppose I should keep in consideration.

RunningDeer

22nd December 2013, 03:15

Dearest Freed Fox,

What I want to say is, I’d miss your Presence and Light. You may not see or feel it now. God, I hope that you get too. And in that moment, gratitude and blessed thanks will fill your Life-Light account. You’ll get to see it’s been there all along. It’s there to draw on it anytime. I also add that you have a natural gift of expression. Your thoughts and words come through with a balance, fairness and wisdom. You change lives. My wish for you is that you get to see how you make a difference.

With Love,
Paula

Flash

22nd December 2013, 03:21

I saw all your posts here and truly enjoyed you writing talents, within the dark night and while floating on the surface as well.

I do think you may be going through as much a spiritual crisis, which is in fact a good news of inner/higher evolution. However, knowing it does not make it less painful.

I do have some very practical information I did or help my daughter with, to use if you ever dive again. There is natural product that exist which will give a bit of relief and have no side effect. Of course, getting rid of taking them afterward will have to be done slowly, but you will have no side effects in your body. When I am truly down, I take 5HTP, 200 or 300 mg per day, which is a natural helper for the system to create serotonine in the brain. It does give some relief, and can be taken temporarily.

Also, when your intestine, which absord the nutrient and send it to your bloodstream are sick or affected, you will slowly get depleted of nutrients and therefore go into depression. I know, I had to deal with that for my daughter, in parts (other problems were involved too). One way is to take care of nutrients absorption. It could be through direct vitamins and minerals injections, however costly, or by taking care, taking good quality supplements, vitamins and minerals to start with in order to pump your system back up (see it as a car jump start).

Then, go on a diet, gluten free. The milk protein casein will also play havock with your brain. As long as you are not fine, I would avoid this. Gluten is litterally murderous for people with ulcerative colitis.

Dawn made a thread here on the gut. Please read it and follow the advices there. They are excellent. It takes a good 6 to 8 months to see the difference with a gluten free diet and large dosage of supplements. Supplements can be reduced slowly afterwards, but we still here take the essentials such as vitamin D3 in winter, vitamin C to get rid of toxins, etc.

Last item: check your thyroid hormones, even if it shows fine in the exams, those are just indication, you may still be low in these hormones, which leads to depression.

Check your iron levels as well, they are very often deficient in people with intestinal sickness. The iron is absorb by a very precise 1 inch long part of the small intestine. When that inch is sick, no more iron absorption. You would then need injections most probably if that is the case.

I would really take that path because of your medical history. Having been in the medical field, you may already know part of what I am talking about here.

Your body influences your mind and vice versa.

Take care Freed Fox

love

johnf

22nd December 2013, 07:47

I took this to have certain implications regarding this life, which I'm sure I don't need to spell out (as some of you have stated yourselves; all of life is but a stage). It is exceedingly hard to grasp that concept while you're on the stage itself, but nonetheless could very well be a true and potent perspective to utilize.

For some reason I decided not to post this earlier today but after you related your dream and
what you think it means I feel I should.
When you first opened this thread I was going into another slump after feeling a lot of well being recently.
Last night my mood lifted, and I recalled some advice that i received a long time ago about ups and downs, and some subsequent experience with this idea over the years.

It basically is that If I focus on the present slump, I will have trouble grasping the positive facts about my life, and start to imagine my whole life as one big downward slide.
If I really get objective and look at a longer stretch of my life I might see it as a slow upward climb overall. And that the downs are accessing more intensity, but at my peaks I am accessing more serenity and insight.
As I thought about this today I got an image of looking at a small section of a graph, and judging it as a crash, then zooming back and seeing the overall climb, and gradual experience of more of life overall.
This is strikingly close to your decripstion of your dream and it's meaning.

Also To Flash I must say your advice about intestinal health is probably of great importance in my case. I have started treating what seems to be advanced diverticulitus with an auruvedic herbal formula as well as some cleansing herbs, and am starting to experience some relief
physically, the lack of nutrient absorbtion thing seems to be playing a big part in my slow demise , and difficulty in managing my mood.

There is a lot of stuff in this thread to work with for me.

jf

GreenGuy

25th December 2013, 02:58

You are not afraid of death then, it seems. That's good, for you will certainly die!...I'm so looking forward to this, it's incredible. I'll leave this body—which I really like, but which is also a drag in a way—and travel on lightly with the speed of thought to many exotic and wonderful places, meet amazing spirits, it's gonna be a magnificent journey, I can feel it!

However, the reason why I don't just kill my body is, like you said in your other thread, "I feel an obligation to live."

Well said, christian! FF, I also want to add my thanks for being here and for sharing your poignant words.

Someone once told me something I've never forgotten, which is that each of us has an effect by simply existing - and there's nothing we can do about that. Even if we choose not to exist any longer, that too has an effect on the world around us. Make no mistake, the effects of what we think, say and do are far beyond what we know!

What we can do is choose the kind of effect we are having. At any moment we can choose to have a good effect. We can work on being a blessing to those around us. And I do think we have some sort of obligation to do what we can with our time on the material plane. After all, we choose to come here and many of us return for some reason.

chocolate

5th January 2014, 23:01

[...] my perspective shifted and I was no longer Frodo. I was 'outside' of the whole scenario and realized at once that it was all a game of some kind. Although the drama had seemed so real while being engaged within it, it was brought into an entirely different light when I reached this place that was seemingly 'above' it.

I took this to have certain implications regarding this life, which I'm sure I don't need to spell out (as some of you have stated yourselves; all of life is but a stage). It is exceedingly hard to grasp that concept while you're on the stage itself, but nonetheless could very well be a true and potent perspective to utilize.

[...] for certain that this was [...] divine insight.
it was indeed. :)

I came back to this thread having some thoughts of my own, again, these past few days.

I saw the 'game' situation from your dream while awake, it was quite a sensation, as if my mind expanded and contacted at the same time and all the pieces of s puzzle found their appropriate place (for the time being). It happened in 'installments', otherwise I think I would have missed the final picture.
The ultimate survival/learning/experiencing game, quite literally.
It is layered and not as simple as it sounds, but a staged reality nevertheless. Some people will be put off by this cliche wording, but I don't have a better way to describe it, and even if I had, I would have to spend quite some time writing about it.

I think I have known it from the start, just as we all do on the above level, but recently I could find some 'real life' examples and comparisons to be able to try speak about it in conversations. Not that anyone around understands me, but since they all think/know me as 'different' I am mostly forgiven for being myself. It is a lonely walk, though. It is not meant to be realized, because than it happens what has happened to you, and to me, and to others I presume. Our software starts running not in the way intended, and we could loose the innate desire to survive this 'life' all together, something that is a 'must have' to take part in the game.
I already have started to find it more and more difficult to hold on to whatever that 'is' right now. Not that I am suicidal, it is just that I find this 'life' a bit empty, as if I am floating in space and I just observe people down below obsessing over what they usually obsess over.
From that perspective one might see a completely clear meaning of the words 'service to others' since there is no 'self' anymore in the normal sense of the term. It is difficult to speak about it, but I know there are like-minded people who understand what I am trying to put into words. Those who can't live with the realization get the title 'crazy', or end up dead. And that is against the rules.

Those who survive the process start writing, painting, speaking in fables about it, and very few manage to have 'normal' families or relationships.

"And the truth will set you free"...

I guess what I (and probably you) need is some anchor to keep us 'grounded' if we were to survive it for a while longer. I am not just speaking figuratively.

Anyway.
One good thing is that this place/forum exists.

FreedFox, your fox-man experience is what ancient shamans describe as shape shifting. There are many words for it, but essentially you transcend or move your consciousness from the physical body you have been given to a thought form 'body' resembling an animal. Unfortunately in today's world we are not properly educated in this, but it is not so uncommon as one might suspect. Think of it as if you are in a dream and you know you are dreaming (in other words you know you are not in the physical world to have physical sensations from it), but you do have physical sensations in your body. That is because you are simultaneously in your body and outside your body.

Snowflower

6th January 2014, 02:04

I had a friend years ago who had been contemplating suicide. She had a friend who had committed suicide about five years earlier. That night, she was awakened during the night and saw, at the foot of her bed in the air about head height, her friend's face. He said to her, "I know you are thinking about killing yourself, and have been given permission to visit you to persuade you not to do it." He asked her to look around him - what did she see? She said, "nothing - it's just a gray nothingness." He said to her, "that's what I see, that's what I live in, and will live in until I should have died. I was supposed to live to be 84." He was in his mid-20's when he killed himself.) Then he said, "the worst of it is - I don't have a watch. I have no way of measuring the passage of time, and live each minute as if it is an eternity."

I have thought about that story through the years. How do we measure the passing of time? By birth and death, and by the sunrise and sunset. Without those markers, one day would be so exactly like the previous or next day that we would have no concept of how much time had passed.

The many times I have longed for death in the past few years has been due to the extreme level of pain I live with daily. I haven't wanted to die because of looking forward to the beauty of the spiritual realms, but to escape from the pain of this one.

I'm working on, at the very least, turning it around enough to contemplate the spiritual realms with the joy of wanting to be there, rather than the pain of wanting not to be here. I am also working on having enough patience to wait my turn to go. The raging storm on the planet is affecting all of us with emotional storms in our lives out of all proportion to anything we have ever experienced before. All we can do is learn to wait, to breathe, to find patience from a deep well somewhere inside, and to ride out the storm.

I send you all of my love, and offer you a well of patience to draw from as you ride out your own storm.

Johnny

7th January 2014, 20:38

Anyway.
One good thing is that this place/forum exists.

FreedFox, your fox-man experience is what ancient shamans describe as shape shifting. There are many words for it, but essentially you transcend or move your consciousness from the physical body you have been given to a thought form 'body' resembling an animal. Unfortunately in today's world we are not properly educated in this, but it is not so uncommon as one might suspect. Think of it as if you are in a dream and you know you are dreaming (in other words you know you are not in the physical world to have physical sensations from it), but you do have physical sensations in your body. That is because you are simultaneously in your body and outside your body.

There are a couple of things I would wish children had on there school schedule at least 1 hour every week. 1. How the mind works. 2. How are we able to become aware/conscious of whatever. 3. What the subconscious is. 4. What feelings and emotions are. 5. How the mind works with the 5 senses. 6. The true shaman work. (Quantum work) !

And for fun, try to imagine for a moment a generation educated in these things (also), graduated from school. :)

To FreedFox: If the shaman works make some bells ringing as Chocolate descibe it, then go for it.

Best regards Johnny

chocolate

7th January 2014, 23:40

Yes, what that world would be, Johnny! Considering the fact that human life is all about learning to use our limitless potential...

Just to bring the tone [that I am afraid I have set with my last two posts] a bit up, there is a link to my 'shamanic tunes' for anyone in need of some guidance. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q3cnhydq76l6ykv/bXiAHZ_G7Q I have tested them and they do the job well [in other words, you can stay centered without falling to sleep].

I am sending part of my superpowers to everyone who is falling in the trap of some negative thoughts, myself included.
:wizard:

Freed Fox

9th January 2014, 02:04

At the risk of becoming redundant, I have to say again; my sincerest thanks to you all.

Snowflower, that is a fairly chilling anecdote, though admittedly not as bad as certain religious beliefs regarding suicide (that is, at least the 'grey limbo' has a finite duration). I don't know what I believe about it, other than the conviction I hold that nothing and no one is beyond salvation. That isn't to say I believe in one specific savior (though that is a nice thought), but I don't believe any act removes the possibility for redemption, and positive transformation, certainly not at the soul level. At any rate, I feel I should state; I am - at least right now - not contemplating suicide anymore. I touched on that fact a few posts ago, but it still holds true. At worst, I'm just waiting to die now. I'm keeping my mind and heart open, though, such that with any luck I can move from this stage to living the rest of this life with some kind of real purpose.

Chocolate; I appreciate what you're saying but to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure I caught 100% of it. :) May have just been the phrasing, but like you correctly stated, there are certain concepts here which are exceedingly difficult to express.

I must admit, though, that I see this game as exactly the opposite in nature than that which you stated in your last post here. If anything, I see this as learning to cope with a state of being in which we are severely limited. Perhaps it is part of our 'core curriculum', or so we come to a greater appreciation of our limitless state beyond the human experience. I really don't know, except I can say that no living human is truly limitless.

When I had my 'fox-man' experience, I was unaware of what Shamanism was, really. When I later looked into it, I definitely felt it was related. I've only been able to glance the very tip of that iceberg since via meditation. Unfortunately, I don't have access to any entheogens for the time being (a fact that isn't likely to change anytime soon), and I am personally of the persuasion that true shamanism more or less relies on their use. Any thoughts pertaining to that, perchance?

Milneman

9th January 2014, 11:05

I practiced for over 10 years. Never used an entheogen once. Unless of course you count fasting and sweats.

The elders I learned from told me to keep my body pure, and that way, I would be able to trust my experiences through my sobriety. And Foxy? You shoulda seen the **** I saw. :D

chocolate

9th January 2014, 11:17

Hi FreedFox. I have many thoughts :) .

If you are interested in shamanism you can read about it here: http://www.shamanism.org/ and some more here: http://www.animalspirits.com/. The second link is to a webpage developed by a member of this forum, but I found it first and than realized the connection. Oftentimes those who know are poorly understood in an average conversation, and when that happens those people simply stop trying to express anything. But the ideas are there for anyone who can recognize them.
And a book http://innertraditions.com/shamanicpath. I attended a training on the Edgar Casey website (http://www.edgarcayce.org/) on the base of shamanism with Henry Reed, and that book came with that training. Use with discretion.

Don't worry about what I was saying. I am glad it is not understood. To be perfectly honest, I will be happy if no one will ever understand what I was saying. It is enough for me that I have to live with it. Or may be it will turn out that I am wrong all together. In both cases I am quite okay with the situation. But I think there are members of PA who are aware, probably more than I am.

I have the feeling that you already understand everything, but not with your logical mind, and it will take some time until your mind finds its way to bring that information to you in a manner that you feel comfortable with.

It is possible I also can't express everything in a way that you are used to, because English is not my mother language, not to mention that I am partially dyslexic when tired or under stress, and that my mind doesn't operate on words, but rather on images. Most of the time when I am talking to someone in real life part of what I want to say gets transmitted in a non verbal way, indirectly, especially if the participants in that conversation and me we have a similar way of thinking and or expressing our thoughts. Not to mention that I pick up what people are thinking without the need for them to speak up. But when it comes to communication on a forum, it is like I have to explain everything to myself, the only participant I can make sense of in the situation, and this make it much more difficult for me. I try, but not with the success needed all the time.

To experience shamanism you don't need entheogens or any other stimulants. You need to discover what is natural to you. It is way simpler than everyone thinks given the name and the mystery around that name. But as with everything simplicity comes in layers, so you just have to find what works for you. I am not claiming i know much about it. I have a sense of what it is and use parts of it as much as I can.
It is also not magic nor mystery. It only looks that way because currently we have strained from that path quite a bit, and our current understanding of the world is limited by our limited understanding of what to take as real and what to discard as an illusion.

Lastly, I partially disagree with your opinion that
"I see this [game] as learning to cope with a state of being in which we are severely limited. Perhaps it is part of our 'core curriculum', or so we come to a greater appreciation of our limitless state beyond the human experience".
From where I stand right now I see it this way:
There is almost nothing that limits us, only what we choose to believe are our limits.

start of a rant -> Many limitations come to your life so that you find a way to deal with them and so that you understand who is in charge of the situation. My life hasn't been easy on many levels. And exactly the difficult parts helped me realize what are the problems, where to look and how to deal with myself mostly. But I chose to stay present, not to distract myself with things and situations that will make me feel good and that will bring me comfort. The comfort came after. With it came also a bit of a depression, because we have been made to look for the comfort of hope and the "good" in life. That is one of the reasons people go for religion, sects, shamanism ( :) ), "spiritualism' and many other -isms I am not able to pinpoint now. I also went that road, but for some reason it kept on running faster and faster, my ideas kept on changing, I had some really amazing revelations at the time (it is like you find at once all the pieces of a puzzle on their correct places and the feeling is of great joy), until I found a picture or an idea that made sense to me more than everything else. I am not saying that is the only picture or the most correct one, but it is something that makes sense to me and that I can understand.
One thing is for sure- I allowed myself to take that road and to have no expectations of what I would find there. And I did not put labels to anything, I let everything speak for itself, mostly indirectly.
Here I am, partially sane for the current understanding of what sane is.

But to fully understand me you need to see where I come from. That is something I am currently unwilling to make more clear than I already have.

That is my compassionate heart speaking.

Life is much simpler if we don't understand everything. And it is also quite simple if you understand that there is no death as we have been so well conditioned to believe. That is a control concept. <- end of the rant :o

As you can see, I have thoughts.
And probably this is the longest post I will ever make, and the last one for some time. It is a bit exhausting to try put in words things that can only be felt. But I tried because I know someone may find some pieces of his own puzzle among my thoughts.

Milneman, I sensed already, reading some of your other posts, you are someone I can understand. ;)

aXZOhqbQsOw
and an article:
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/12/25/did-quantum-physics-just-prove-the-existence-of-an-afterlife/
+ another:
http://www.spiritscienceandmetaphysics.com/scientists-claim-that-quantum-theory-proves-consciousness-moves-to-another-universe-at-death/

If you imagine everything is possible if you think it is, what would you do given the chance? How big can you imagine/dream? If it is only your 'belief' that what you can imagine can become real holding you back from experiencing that change?
What if I tell you that if you allow your mind to accept the idea that everything is possible if you 'think'it is thus sending the information to a higher level and asking the permission for this idea to happen...what if you can heal your physical body...what if you can make it so that you meet your prefect partner? It is possible because that is what this life is all about- realizing the possibility and believing that it is so.

Did you notice all the comparisons with computer science? And if so, what if the reality we 'live in' is just a construct enabling someone to explore his own limits and limitations? And I am not referring to "The Matrix", nor to "Avatar" although they touched the subject to an extent. They revealed small parts of a bigger concept that you may also find in every religion. But to understand it you have to forget about the words like God, Life, Death, Heaven, Earth and you just need to see what is there stripped of its additional clothing. Because it is there, and it is simpler than you think. But it is a matter of your ability to look outside your normal understanding and let the images create their own language.

Since I don't know what words or symbols will make you understand, I am using parts of someone else's expression, a fable of sorts that may lead you to a revelation/association that might be what you need to piece it together for yourself.

Good luck on the road!
One other thing that might help you: http://www.silvalifesystem.com/#sthash.Su0yaXlc.dpbs. It is a paid course, but there is one part "the unlimited you" that is free when you subscribe. Give it a chance, if you haven't already. It is a base from where many have copied. And this base is quite scientific.

Johnny

9th January 2014, 11:56

I am personally of the persuasion that true shamanism more or less relies on their use. Any thoughts pertaining to that, perchance?

Of course it is so, it is a kind of tool, just like a hammer, but if we only have a hammer in our toolbox, we have a tendency to consider all problems as nails, and that will often make more problems than solutions.
As I read your post now Freed Fox, you are on the threshold to be reborn, and to be reborn you have to die, NOT TO KILL YOURSELF !!! :) It is definitely not the same. If you kill your body, you have no body to return to, that is all. Your problems will not be solved in that way :) We have a saying here in Denmark: "The troll will move with you".
Have you ever said YES to be here on earth ?? Maybe you will think: "Yes of course I have, I wouldn't be here, if I haven't said yes to that". That is a yes by default, NOT a conscious YES. Now you can ask, what is the difference ? and the answer is, YOU ARE the difference. How do you make a yes consciously ?, it is a choice, you just make that choice.

At worst, I'm just waiting to die now

If that is the case, then try to understand, by removing the waiting, that you are already death. I am not kidding. Maybe that will make you reborn. Not reborn as anything else than reborn.

Kindly regards and the best wishes

Johnny

Johnny

9th January 2014, 13:13

....................................................... You shoulda seen the **** I saw. :D

??? Milneman you are not going to be a naughty boy now, aren't you :)

And to chocolate: It is a joy to read your posts, despite the little lonely tone I sense. As you described in your previous post:

It is a lonely walk
Yes it is, it has to be so, but there is a huge difference (in feelings) to be alone and to be lonely. So walk alone, then you will never feel lonely :)
Now I have to stop, I don't want to hijack the tread.

Johnny

chocolate

9th January 2014, 13:25

I am okay, Johnny. I sense your care.
Sometimes when you need to help someone by explaining, it is frustrating to see that you are unable to reach them. But in general I will get over the feeling of being lonely. Where I am right now it is a state of awareness that doesn't have the concept of alone anymore, only sometimes if I allow it to be so I can feel the human feeling of loneliness. Most of the time I am able to hold it together in an acceptable earthly manner. But thank you, your sensing is right.

Milneman

9th January 2014, 21:16

[QUOTE=Milneman;782098]....................................................... You shoulda seen the **** I saw. :D

??? Milneman you are not going to be a naughty boy now, aren't you :)

lol ok ok ok....Not because I want to get "thanks" down there, but because Foxy? It's real.

It starts with seeing little flashes of colour out of the corner of your eye. Not necessarily during ceremony, not necessarily not in ceremony. Sometimes in prayer when I smudged, sometimes when I was watching TV, sometimes when I was just doing the dishes, or in a sweat. Brilliant flashes of blue that was blue-er than any blue I'd ever seen. Strangely enough? It's back. And it comes with a warm, wonderful feeling of knowing something bigger is taking a benevolent interest.

The first fast I took part in, ever, I was a mess as a human being. I had really crazy mixed up ideas about life, and a sweat before the actual opening of the ceremony was done night before. I got into the lodge, realized I didn't bring tobacco for the elder, and begged my friend Dean for a cigarette. I felt awful. All these people are handing this elder packages of tobacco and all I have is a pinch that I took from a cigarette, that got smaller and smaller as it was passed to the elder. He sprinkled it over the stones, and the ceremony started. It was so hot, hotter than anything I'd felt before, and I was lifted into the steam like it was my breath. It was amazing.

When it was over, I did something really dumb. I met my teacher on the way back to my tent, he asked how the sweat was. I told him it was a piece of cake. Gloat gloat. Ohoh. The sweat that opened the fast, the steam was so hot I was literally pushed to the floor of the lodge, and the same when I came back after my 4 days out in the bush. Lesson learned. Stay humble.

Another sweat I was in, Daryl the medicine man who was running the sweat had an eagle wing he put up in the rafters of the lodge. This thing was tied in. There was no way this thing could get out. You put things like prayer cloth, sacred things, up in the top of the lodge when you go in as a sign of respect. Third round of the lodge, he asked us all to pray to the eagle spirit. He blew his eagle-bone whistle four times and an eagle came into the lodge. You could hear it flapping against the tarps in the door. It went right around the sweat twice, the wings hit me on my face and back (which was against the tarps of the lodge) before it flew out.

Another time I was out, my last fast, I was in a tent up at Duck Lake. The first night I was so comfortable. It was really early spring, May 1st week-end. There was still snow on the ground in places but there was a huge pond just across from where we were all fasting. The frogs were so loud, non-stop, it was amazing. That morning, someone came to my tent, unzipped the flap, and started asking me if I was comfortable, if I needed any more blankets, that kind of thing. I was half asleep, but I was awake. He wished me well, zipped the tent back up, and that was that. The elder did come out in the morning to let us all out, and I asked him why he came out, zipped us up, and left again...he had not idea what I was talking about.

The most poignant though was a pipe-ceremony that was in the dark. I don't know what this ceremony was called, but it was in a dark room, pipe-carrier, his wife, my teacher, and me. I offered tobacco for the bones of a medicine man/elder that were found in the south part of the province back in the late 1980's early 1990's. They ended up in a university vault I think, but I got the chance to sit for myself on the grave site back in 1991. Anyway, he started the ceremony...and from the west of the room I could see a tall, old man who had an expression on his face of "why are you bothering me??" come into the room, look directly at me, and then continue walking to the pipe-carrier. After the ceremony, he told me that that man had come from a long, long way on the other side and given me the message: "Don't worry about my bones!" lol

There is another side. I know a lot of people are going to have varying beliefs on this, but in a way they're right. Foxy, the best thing I can tell you in regards to pursuing shamanism is find the old people in your area. Find out who still knows where medicinal herbs and plants are. If you can't find the people, and in some places in the world they're few and far between, read. Go out into the country and look. I'm not going to tell you to listen to the spirit of the land. :) I'm going to tell you that if you go out into the land, you will find aspects of yourself there in ways you wouldn't think believable. I'm not going to knock using "medicinals" to get into altered states, but I am going to say this: given what we both know about human nature, I think we both will agree that people who are qualified, really qualified, to administer these substances in the way they were intended are probably few and far between.

There is a real danger in doing this stuff without someone who is grounded in life experience in the way they're instructing. You can pick up some real cold pricklies if you're not careful. I had to shake a couple myself, and its not an easy thing to do especially if your'e unaware they're around. Be patient, and stay clean. If you experience it sober, you can trust the experience more than if you use a substance that potentially wakes up all kinds of...*shudder*. Don't go there man. I know it seems tempting, but in a way it's an easy way between point A and point Z without doing b, c, d, e.....

Johnny

10th January 2014, 00:47

Sorry Freed Fox that we occupy your tread !

Sometimes when you need to help someone by explaining, it is frustrating to see that you are unable to reach them.

Tell me about it :) Yes, and many times when I have tried, the only one who have learned something has been me, which not was the intention. I believe I could easily lure/seduce them into something, but I also know, by looking into my own rearview mirror, that it is very very important to choose our own time to start the inner path. If it comes from the 'outside' we have from one to several reasons, why we have lost 'the orientation' and is sitting in a 'hell'. We will come into 'hell', but if we only have ourselves to give thanks for, then it is much easier to come out on the other side, by ourselves.

I was clever(LOL)/lucky to start my inner journey, right after I had left the school, just before I was 17 years old. And not long time after I remember sitting on my bed, saying to myself: "Johnny Johnny what have you done. You was such a happy teenager, and the whole world was in your hand" I was sitting in an unbelievable mess, because nothing absolutely nothing, in my mind/brain was connected anymore. I could only see 2 choices, commit suicide or work myself out of it. To commit suicide was not a really option, because I at that time knew I had lived before and properly just would start a new life on earth in the same way (The troll will move with you, and believe me, it will :) ) So I 'just' have to work myself out of it. Looking back at it to day, I can only smile :)

So, if a person should come to me saying: "Can you tell me if is it hard to 'find myself'/take the inner journey ? " I would say: "Yes it is, it is exactly as hard as you are yourself, no more, no less". And the hard part is not our belief systems alone, but that we perceive and create our reality through them. And as I wrote in another tread: human beings will kill and/or be killed (include commit suicide) for their reality.

I remember, sitting with 4 women, who have found out, they have lived in the same time in the same monastery, but had different ages at that time, and while they were talking more and more came out, and despite they had had a hard time at that time, they where sitting there full of joy and laughter talking about it. One of them had been a really bitch to the others, and could tell accurately, why she had been so. It was exiting for me to listen to them.

Imagine a 5 grade class in history, the teacher say: "And to day's homework will be, to go back to situation xxx in the year yyy, by remote viewing and tomorrow, everybody shall come with there comment about it. THAT would be a history lesson :)

And to Milneman (also): Of course you shall have a 'thanks' :)

Brilliant flashes of blue that was blue-er than any blue I'd ever seen.
Yes, I have seen similar blue flashes too, it is wonderful :)

That morning, someone came to my tent, unzipped the flap, and started asking me if I was comfortable, if I needed any more blankets, that kind of thing. I was half asleep, but I was awake. He wished me well, zipped the tent back up, and that was that. The elder did come out in the morning to let us all out, and I asked him why he came out, zipped us up, and left again...he had not idea what I was talking about.
LOL, Never happen to me !! And thank you for the whole story. It has been a joy to read. The time here now is about 01.30 am, so I am a bit tired now.

'See' you later.

Johnny

Freed Fox

10th January 2014, 03:18

No need to apologize Johnny. I appreciate the conversation.

For me, I was left utterly disillusioned after 2012. I didn't really want to go into this per se, but some of the recent comments about believing in it, and it's 'all there', etc have brought this up for me, with a fairly bitter after-taste.

And anyway, I've already made quite the showcase demonstrating what a fool I am, so what can it hurt?

Now, I think it's somewhat important to note that I was not subscribed to any particular notion or prediction regarding 2012. I didn't have any specific model for what it was going to look like exactly, at least not regarding any channeler or new age personality. There was what I personally felt like something very tangible about it, and I came to believe whole-heartedly in the run-up to the 21st that there would be a very dramatic shift, or even transformation. I didn't just believe it, but I went to great lengths to remove my own doubt about it and put my energy in that direction, that a positive transformation would take place.

It didn't, and nothing happened at all.

For me, it isn't as simple as becoming 'blissed out' and just accepting things as they are. It isn't even about finding an ideal life here, because now I pretty much know that there is no such thing for me. Not here.

I don't want to sound as though I consider myself too good for this place, or that I'm above the kinds of lives other people lead here. I'm not. But I do feel, right down to my core, incompatible with this place. It isn't just society. It isn't just the status-quo. It's quite nearly the entire thing.

I don't need perfection. At least, I don't think so... but this world and it's people would have to transform dramatically for me to feel right here. Imagine you woke up tomorrow as an ant. Maybe your basic needs are accounted for, and it's not all that bad. Maybe the other ants come to accept you, and you basically adjust to the rhythm of it all. Chances are, it still wouldn't feel right to you. Would you not feel misplaced? Would you not be constantly asking yourself why you are in this predicament to begin with?

Now, of course I don't regard humans as ants! Least of all the fine people here. I'm simply left without a real adequate metaphor to employ here. I suppose it is some small consolation to know that there are others who feel similarly, in that they identify themselves as 'starseeds'. However, what I seem to notice with a lot of those folks, is that they have consulted some channeler or hypnotist who has given them insights into where they come from, etc. I find myself in doubt that I would really trust such feedback myself, let alone by taking the initial leap of faith by paying them in advance for one of those sessions.

The previous point brings me to my next, which is that Milneman is absolutely right when he states that these individual resources are few and far between. That goes double for where I live. The midwest U.S. seems to me to be a cultural and spiritual wasteland (at least in regions like mine, where the indigenous population is nil). The old folks here, from everything I've experienced, are more concerned about agriculture, gossip, and the weather than anything else, and are pretty much all among the most closed-minded flavors of christian. They would probably attribute most of what gets discussed here on Avalon to the work of the devil, if I had to guess. Frankly, all I've got to latch on to in these regards is on the internet, particularly this site. I'd love to give the people in close proximity the benefit of the doubt, but there's nothing evidential to support that decision, and these matters are a bit too close to my heart to stomach the rampant misunderstanding, dismissal, and/or derision which seems much more likely than true support or commiseration.

Also pertaining to what you were saying, Milneman, I have found that those small, fleeting glimpses I've had during meditation have served to reaffirm the initial experience I had, but as I stated then, it was initially brought about by psilocybin mushrooms. Considering that nothing before or since has carried so much profundity for me, I have no problem at all accepting those experiences as genuine. I have learned and grown from my difficulties and mistakes, but simultaneously I have no problem at all taking shortcuts. Particularly when so little in general carries any purpose or meaning to me.

I suppose that the 'fox-man' experience has lead to a closer approximation of why I have always felt out of place, even when everything seemed to be going my way. In a sense, it is a source of misery because it is unattainable to me in this life; to actually LIVE IT fully, and not merely catch sight of it's passing shadow on exceedingly rare instances. Yet, I feel it is all the more genuine because I would not surrender that realization in return for happiness in this lifetime. I've figured out that I don't belong; now I just have to figure out why I've taken this apparent detour. A learning opportunity? A prison sentence? The purpose is elusive but I do feel a certain drive to discover it. I get the distinct impression that it isn't to be happy. Still... I'm bearing it with a grin (sometimes). :)

Chocolate, thanks for the links, I intend to look into them more deeply in the coming few days.

Johnny

10th January 2014, 08:19

Thanks Freed Fox !

It didn't, and nothing happened at all.

Nop, and even if it had happen, it would not be 'the end' result, life would still continue :)

I don't want to sound as though I consider myself too good for this place, or that I'm above the kinds of lives other people lead here. I'm not. But I do feel, right down to my core, incompatible with this place. It isn't just society. It isn't just the status-quo. It's quite nearly the entire thing.

I have talked to few people who also felt they where not 'in the right place' here on earth. But it can probably not help you !

Imagine you woke up tomorrow as an ant.

Funny you mention it, but I HAVE had that imagination, to live in an ant society :)

I'm simply left without a real adequate metaphor to employ here. I suppose it is some small consolation to know that there are others who feel similarly, in that they identify themselves as 'starseeds'.

Sounds like you could be what is called 'a first timer' here on earth ! I myself can't remember my first time here on earth, or have encountered it, and I don't now how many incarnations I have had, all I can say is, it is many.

The previous point brings me to my next, which is that Milneman is absolutely right when he states that these individual resources are few and far between. That goes double for where I live. The midwest U.S. seems to me to be a cultural and spiritual wasteland (at least in regions like mine, where the indigenous population is nil).

You should live in Europe, here it is absolutely nil :) We have to 'import' them from South and North America :)

I'd love to give the people in close proximity the benefit of the doubt, but there's nothing evidential to support that decision, and these matters are a bit too close to my heart to stomach the rampant misunderstanding, dismissal, and/or derision which seems much more likely than true support or commiseration.

I can understand that, and as I stated in the above post: IMO it is very important to be alone and make one's own decision to leave 'the loop'.

Still... I'm bearing it with a grin (sometimes).

That is a good thing. I was also 'forced' to learn to laugh at my self. It was that or going 'nuts' :)

Have a nice time Freed Fox until next.

Best regards

Johnny

chocolate

10th January 2014, 12:31

Freed Fox, I promised to stay in the shadows, but have to say this: your last post is like me saying everything in a "better than my usual" English.
I can repeat something that Bill once said to me in a message ... I tried to quote but cannot find that message, anyway. The meaning went in the lines that me/you, all of us, we are strong and powerful people, and that we are necessary. It may not be always easy, but that is the nature of this road, so we just have to keep walking.

If you look at my profile you'll notice I don't have many friends. That is partially because I am not as easy to understand as people like to experience it, and partially because I am not inclined to share my world. I have tried occasionally, but it doesn't feel right for me and I have given up on trying. It is not because I have chosen so, it is just the way I am. But those friends that I have, both on the forum and in the physical life around me, are quite valuable to me. You are one of them. Because I understand you better than I have understood many others that have been around me.
Which leads me to:
One of the reasons I invaded your tread is because I recognized what was happening to you. It felt really similar to what I had [and still am probably] going through.
I am not going to quote you paragraph by paragraph since making forum quotes is not my strong side [as some of the moderators already know], but we seem to 'see' the situation in a very similar way.

I know the downwards movement is temporary. In those moments I use different coping strategies, one of them is simple observation. I get out of this world with coffee and chocolate, stare outside the window, or watch old TV series and other not very popular movies, and let it assemble itself on its own once again. Somehow my mind operates in an almost constant state of meditation [what people like to call it] when I am not too consciously occupied in other activities, so having a break from the usual lifestyle and work for me is vitally important.
Other times I run for quite some time [I am coming from professional sport so that is also natural to me]. In those moments, after 20 minutes more or less, your mind switches into a different state of 'meditation'.
I don't mean to bore you, just saying that when you need you can discover different types of coping activities that feel natural to you. And with their help the momentary 'down' passes.
I know what we are feeling is a more constant down than the temporary, but it will also pass. It is important to use it, though, to discover a few more gems about this life that might prove important later.
I choose it to be simple, and take it one day/step at a time.

I also am aware that we have a card or more to play. That is why we need to stick around for a while longer. Those who need us are not here on this level of existence, and they do need us to accomplish some tasks, so it is part of the scenario to stay here. I might not like that all the time, but I just try to remember it.

Milneman, :). I cannot relate to your experiences. My take on shamanism is a bit more in the world of the shadows, not necessarily in the world of practical fire and tobacco.

I have to correct myself for my previous post- some of us discover shamanism as means to be helpful. Shamans are the ones who are responsible for the "spiritual" [for a lack of a better word] guidance and/or physical healing. They are anchors of our need to believe in that that is not physically present here. They are the better physicists and doctors, architects and teachers. And if they like to smoke, that's okay. :p