Suicide of the soul

[Unicorn]

I wonder if there can be something like a spiritual suicide. There is the physical suicide, but that doesn't solve anything, as it doesn't break the chain of incarnations, veil and suffering. But I wish there could be a spiritual suicide. The absolute end. No more incarnations, no more suffering, no more spiritual wars. Nothing. But I am afraid it's impossible. Not even that shameful way out for us.

I am sorry. Those are my sad thoughts.

[halffull]

No, I don't believe that you can kill the spirit. For many people this is their last incarnation and that is why it can feel so heavy at times.

Keep on Keeping on because the best is yet to come, trust me on that one

Much Love

[Milneman]

Notile Te Bastardes Carborundorum.

[Flash]

I wonder if there can be something like a spiritual suicide. There is the physical suicide, but that doesn't solve anything, as it doesn't break the chain of incarnations, veil and suffering. But I wish there could be a spiritual suicide. The absolute end. No more incarnations, no more suffering, no more spiritual wars. Nothing. But I am afraid it's impossible. Not even that shameful way out for us.

I am sorry. Those are my sad thoughts.

There is one form of spiritual suicide and it is the absolute refusal to evolve and instead replace it by taking power over the dimension you are in. You end up cutting yourself from your soul then and sometimes the way back is near impossible. Me think.

But why in heaven (pun intended) would you want that?

What you are describing here is rather the taste for rejecting any responsiblity for the nasty stuff around. There could be no more suffering, no more spiritual war, no more war period, no more incarnation. But you have to work at it quite a lot, this path is not for the lazy ones. Up to you.

(you want to become a reptile???)

[Wind]

Deq_1lg9Dlo

[Camilo]

Been there, felt that. Hang in there Unicorn, it will pass.

[Anchor]

I wonder if there can be something like a spiritual suicide. There is the physical suicide, but that doesn't solve anything, as it doesn't break the chain of incarnations, veil and suffering. But I wish there could be a spiritual suicide. The absolute end. No more incarnations, no more suffering, no more spiritual wars. Nothing. But I am afraid it's impossible. Not even that shameful way out for us.

I am sorry. Those are my sad thoughts.

No one can understand this with the lower finite mind. Our density is not the density of understanding - you are attempting to approach the infinite that transcends space and time with a finite time and space bound mind.

You are attached in your contemplation of past pain and experience.

You are further attached by your (finite and thus limited) projections of the future.

Your escape route is NOW.

The power of NOW.

Be here NOW.

To the maximum extent possible relax away from attempting to grapple with the future and the perceptions of past and just live in the divine, timeless moment.

The answers you seek are behind a door.

The key to that door is silence.

I hope this helps.

[Agape]

I wonder if there can be something like a spiritual suicide. There is the physical suicide, but that doesn't solve anything, as it doesn't break the chain of incarnations, veil and suffering. But I wish there could be a spiritual suicide. The absolute end. No more incarnations, no more suffering, no more spiritual wars. Nothing. But I am afraid it's impossible. Not even that shameful way out for us.

I am sorry. Those are my sad thoughts.

Yes there is ;) It's when your enlightened self jumps to human incarnation . Or worse, you could have chosen to be your best friends dog . No matter how well you meant , sooner or later you realise you 'did it' and can't get out till the rest of the life .

For the 'higher self of yours' that is pure bliss and knowing and state of being beyond suffering .. there is no thought of annihilation that would have any meaning.

As Anchor said , and it's this 'lower world' that makes us feel so miserable .


I've got message today from friend , PA member as well, and I don't want to tell him off ..but hope he thinks twice, saying he's 'leaving the planet' soon. Meant seriously as he sounded and I know he's been ill for year or two but he's strong young being from where I see it and should not give up that easily .
I know it's tough here. Many people get hurt, bored, heart broken . I don't have lots of physical strength but I think I already fought some very hard moral situations in life when I felt all of my existence is futile , will never be understood, accepted, loved, useful. Most importantly 'useful' as it's usually what keeps us here .


:angel:


It can't be explained easily without forwarding all his backgrounds to someone trustable .
He's visited with me here in Prague earlier this year , under very special circumstances .

[Robin]

This is actually a very interesting topic. It really does make one ponder.

I think I remember Ashayana Deane in one of Project Camelot's videos saying that an individual soul can choose to disintegrate and become fully integrated in the cocktail of energies that make up the multiverse.

I would think that it is possible if we look at everything existing in oneness. Just because it is difficult to imagine oneself not existing on a fully conscious level does not necessarily mean it is not possible. It seems that different dimensions/densities have totally different levels of existence that we really cannot begin to fathom. Even for those of us who come into this incarnation from a higher density, it is still near impossible to remember what that level of existence felt like! I'm sure the higher the density, the more integrated a soul becomes with oneness...therefore, soul suicide for me would be like skipping many densities.

The downside to skipping densities on our way to oneness is that we miss out on all the fun these dimensional "computer" programs are! Each dimension/density provides new lessons, by leaving the process of soul oneness early we don't necessarily do a disservice to ourselves...we just choose a different, less fun, safer route to meld in the universal energy cocktail.

I hope what I say makes some sense! It's difficult to put into words what I'm picturing in my mind...;)

[Kalamos]

..........

[markpierre]

No you can't. You can wonder off in any direction and get lost in preoccupation, but you can't annihilate yourself. Sorry.

But it's an interesting idea. I can think of times that might have had a certain appeal.

[Robin]

No you can't. You can wonder off in any direction and get lost in preoccupation, but you can't annihilate yourself. Sorry.

But it's an interesting idea. I can think of times that might have had a certain appeal.

But how can you say this with such certainty? Unless you are a guru on the laws of physics or know how the physics alters our existence in each density, then how could you possibly know? The concept of oneness is very perplexing and beautiful. If we are already all one with the universe, isn't the disintegration of the soul just a simple meshing of energies and dispersion of our consciousness?

[Shezbeth]

I recall a couple individuals who describe an escape from the cycle of death and rebirth (assuming of course that there is a cycle and that it can actually be escaped) that comes as a result of a lifetime of ascribing to philosophy and practice. Shri Pravupada(sp) and Carlos Castaneda (and others) write of this phenomenon.

Pure conjecture, but I would suggest that if the body can die and the mind can die, that the spirit can die as well.

[RunningDeer]

Notile Te Bastardes Carborundorum.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100214174705AAO6rCe) = "Don't let the bastards grind you down"

[Freed Fox]

(you want to become a reptile???)

Please don't make implications like that. Perhaps it was meant as a joke, but if not; reptiles have souls just as every other living being.

Unicorn, I believe along the same lines as Samwise and Agape have expressed; that the soul cannot be extinguished, and the closest thing to such an idea would be a reintegration with the cosmos, or Source, or whatever your conceptualization is for what or where the soul comes from in the first place.

I am sorry that you are in a place which generates thoughts such as these, but I also agree that it is our current state which makes things seem so bleak at times. I wish I could alleviate the despair for you, as well as myself and everyone else feeling these things so acutely. I can't. I can only make feeble attempts with inadequate words.

All the same, please feel free to PM me if you would like, if you have more personal issues that you wish to talk about or just get off of your chest. My best wishes to you.

[Inaiá]

Hang in there Unicorn, it will pass.

Hugs......

[Robin]

I feel a bit ashamed because I overlooked the true purpose of your thread, Unicorn. I hope that my comments did not come across as disregarding your feelings, but maybe they can be of some benefit.:o

Universal oneness means that we are all in this together. You are not alone. :)

[dim]

there is, but isn't what you think it is and you are very close, aren't you
the absolute end is coming real fast upon you and you're gonna love every bit of it

[Frederick Jackson]

Ah, Unicorn, you would have to be a hateful person spending a whole life without loving or caring. But even then, I am reminded of Dante's Inferno, where a much hated and very hateful merchant of Genoa has his soul in hell while his soulless body is still moving around on earth conducting business. Or, as several have alluded to here, the cycle of reincarnation -- or the movement of the soul on to "higher densities" -- can be aborted by the soul's directly merging with the All in which case the spirit has "comited suicide" I actually wished for this kind of suicide myself when I was meditating one time. I told God I was willing to give up my place in paradise for the sake of a dead dog lying under a gutted Volkswagen. In other words I was to go directly to the Source thereby extinguishing my identity. But really, I have no idea what will happen to me after death. I can only imagine. But I am sure people do kill their spirits while living, becoming in a sense the living dead. Only I doubt you are one of these. Far from it.

PS Something really strange happened shortly after I gave up my spot in heaven to a dead dog. When I arrived at a spiritual retreat in the mountains of Michoacan, Mexico, this big dog greeted me, putting his paw on my knee. He stayed that way motionless for a few minutes just looking straight into the sunset. I later realized he was delivering me a message: We know what you have done.

PPS Next I will give you a little poem, hoping it may pick up your spirits.

[Jake]

I wonder if there can be something like a spiritual suicide. There is the physical suicide, but that doesn't solve anything, as it doesn't break the chain of incarnations, veil and suffering. But I wish there could be a spiritual suicide. The absolute end. No more incarnations, no more suffering, no more spiritual wars. Nothing. But I am afraid it's impossible. Not even that shameful way out for us.

I am sorry. Those are my sad thoughts.


My friend,, These are my sad thoughts too.. Do not despair.!! :) I have often wondered if 'oblivion' is a option. Though my perspective, assumes that 'self-realization' is a choice. To be
or not to be?? Though I believe that anything is possible in an infinite universe,, I stand with those who 'choose' to exist. This whole concept of self/ego is central to the themes of many religious traditions... This is primarily because of the same basic question that you have been pondering. Is it correct to say that you cannot kill spirit?? Or is it more correct to say that you cannot kill A spirit?? I say both are correct, but I cannot know for sure... Either way,, if one could simply 'vanish' into some sort of 'nothing',, it would violate my idea of how we came to 'choose to be' in the first place..!!

Again, I align myself with the wisdom that tells of a journey to understand ourselves,, and our place in the universe... If we do not decide to journey,, then we do not exist,,, if we do not exist,,,,, then no universe... :)

I believe allthatis is CONSCIOUSNESS. Perhaps the decision to exist is being made at a much higher level...

I don't want to ramble. (just got out of the hospital,, I have a bit of pneumonia) feeling fevery,, I hope I made a bit of sense. Excellent topic.

Jake.

[greybeard]

Can "God" be killed off?
This following thought is not quite true but may be helpful.
In order to annihilate some thing you must first find it.
When the Self is looked for it is found to be love and you fall in love with it--that replaces fear and misery.
The whole purpose of the Buddha after enlightenment was to eliminate human misery.
Only that which is eternal is True everything else is passing.

I too have wished for total end to it all---life was unbearable--I could find nothing to live for in my life--least of all myself.
Then AA happened to me and recovery from misery began.
One eminent psychiatrist said that "If everyone was to follow the twelve steps of AA I would be out of a job"
One of the clichés of AA says "Let go, let God"

If help is asked for sincerely by anyone then it will come--you just have to be open to it.
When anyone has hit rock bottom and enough is enough-- then the choice is suicide or enough humility to say "I have done my best or worst and failed miserably, please help me" You don't even have to believe in God--He believes in you, for He is you.

Chris

[Frederick Jackson]

FORTY TIMES I WEPT

Forty times I called your name and wept
Because your name is beauteous.

Was it you or an army of the righteous
I pointed to across the Ganges plain?

Your chords instructed me to dance.
I am Shiva, but I have only two hands.

I am a unicorn. My horn
Is a bridge to you across the sands.

[markpierre]

No you can't. You can wonder off in any direction and get lost in preoccupation, but you can't annihilate yourself. Sorry.

But it's an interesting idea. I can think of times that might have had a certain appeal.

But how can you say this with such certainty? Unless you are a guru on the laws of physics or know how the physics alters our existence in each density, then how could you possibly know? The concept of oneness is very perplexing and beautiful. If we are already all one with the universe, isn't the disintegration of the soul just a simple meshing of energies and dispersion of our consciousness?

It's not physics. You can argue that, but I won't argue back. Physics is a need to understand and explain things. Your Soul already knows that stuff.
Yes I am a sort of a guru on certain issues. I don't use that term, so I'd rather not have it thrown back at me.
The concept of 'oneness' is meaningless as a concept, although it is a bit of fun.
Your looming experience of 'oneness' will be a shock to you. A pleasant one though.

[greybeard]

According to the enlightened sages there is only one soul and you are That.
I am That I am.
Not possible to kill That.

Chris

Ps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-step_program#Twelve_Steps

[skippy]

If help is asked for sincerely by anyone then it will come--you just have to be open to it.
When anyone has hit rock bottom and enough is enough-- then the choice is suicide or enough humility to say "I have done my best or worst and failed miserably, please help me" You don't even have to believe in God--He believes in you, for He is you.

Thanks Chris. Nothing to add, except that, at one stage, a leap of faith is required to embrace that which is and always have been there. "Ask, and it will be given.." (Matthew 7:7), but not without suspecting, expecting and recognizing that it's there. It takes two to tango.

[MargueriteBee]

I have heard that after leaving the body one can choose to meld back into source. But I really have no idea.

[Tony]

If soul means absolute essence, then that which 'is' has always been, was never born and never dies.
If soul mean self identity - ego, then the very recognition of this absolute essence, is death for this self identity - ego.

Enlightenment is death of all impermanent things, and the awakening to that which is constant reality.



Tony

[Milneman]

If help is asked for sincerely by anyone then it will come--you just have to be open to it.
When anyone has hit rock bottom and enough is enough-- then the choice is suicide or enough humility to say "I have done my best or worst and failed miserably, please help me" You don't even have to believe in God--He believes in you, for He is you.

Thanks Chris. Nothing to add, only this perhaps: to suspect, expect and recognize that it's there. At one stage, a leap of faith is required to embrace that which is and always have been there. Freely available for all, nobody excluded. "Ask, and it will be given.." -- Matthew 7:7

Skippy I'm smelling Soren Kierkegaard in there. And actually Unicorn? That's probably some good stuff to be reading right now.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I wonder if there can be something like a spiritual suicide. There is the physical suicide, but that doesn't solve anything, as it doesn't break the chain of incarnations, veil and suffering. But I wish there could be a spiritual suicide. The absolute end. No more incarnations, no more suffering, no more spiritual wars. Nothing. But I am afraid it's impossible. Not even that shameful way out for us.

I am sorry. Those are my sad thoughts.

I've quoted this already (Tes is gonna giggle again)...I think it might jive with what you're saying Uni.

“To sell your soul is the easiest thing in the world. That's what everybody does every hour of his life. If I asked you to keep your soul - would you understand why that's much harder?” -Ayn Rand, "The Fountainhead"

[Pilgrim]

Can "God" be killed off?
This following thought is not quite true but may be helpful.
In order to annihilate some thing you must first find it.
When the Self is looked for it is found to be love and you fall in love with it--that replaces fear and misery.
The whole purpose of the Buddha after enlightenment was to eliminate human misery.
Only that which is eternal is True everything else is passing.

I too have wished for total end to it all---life was unbearable--I could find nothing to live for in my life--least of all myself.
Then AA happened to me and recovery from misery began.
One eminent psychiatrist said that "If everyone was to follow the twelve steps of AA I would be out of a job"
One of the clichés of AA says "Let go, let God"

If help is asked for sincerely by anyone then it will come--you just have to be open to it.
When anyone has hit rock bottom and enough is enough-- then the choice is suicide or enough humility to say "I have done my best or worst and failed miserably, please help me" You don't even have to believe in God--He believes in you, for He is you.

Chris

Dear graybeard what is AA abreviation standing for (for us not native ENG speakers? sorry didn´t grasp that...) Thank you for an explanation... :-)

Pilgrim

[Swan]

Hello Pilgrim,

AA = anonymous alcoholics

[Unicorn]

I know these are just subjective impressions, but I don't think I had the choice to never come back. Therefore, most likely I’ll keep on coming.

So, if we don’t have a say in that, where is our soul’s sovereignty? Are we spiritual slaves?

No-one has answered when we’ve cried out for help. We are stranded in an enclosure surrounded by darkness and ignorance. And that’s all for our good?

Karma: the equalizer. Does it justify the birth lottery? I can only think about this as a bad joke. Where is compassion in the system?

The veil: is it at all necessary? Aren’t we confronted with the same testing situations during our present life, and we do learn from them, even better because we can remember? Isn’t it easier to advance in fuller consciousness?

I wonder if there are other reigns out there where souls can choose life and death as a smooth and conscious transition to a higher experience. With the treasure of their full knowledge and experience.


Sorry if I sound rough and crude. I am not a unicorn any more. I am just worn-out and impotent, as I’ve lost faith.

Thanks for your thoughts and support. Your wonderful souls here at Avalon. Courage in your journey.

[Tony]

@ Unicorn


It depends how you define "soul" - you could mean your unconscious attitudes, or you could mean your pure essence.
Pure essence cannot be touched, but we have smothered it with a self image. That is our prison. "We hold on to me and my ideas."

The key is clarity - the recognition of the prison.

We keep ourselves in prison.
We have the key.

This is not a quick solution. There is a lot of retraining and undoing to be done.
Meditation is the practice of just letting go and clearing recognising our true nature.
Excessive mental activity merely stirs up the med and creates more suffering.

Our problem is that we just do not recognise how simple this process is.

Of course, different traditions have different ways to describe this: it is logical, but sometimes we need a little faith or trust just to let go of our fixated ideas.

Tony

[Tony]

@ Unicorn


It depends how you define "soul" - you could mean your unconscious attitudes, or you could mean your pure essence.
Pure essence cannot be touched, but we have smothered it with a self image. That is our prison. "We hold on to me and my ideas."

The key is clarity - the recognition of the prison.

We keep ourselves in prison.
We have the key.

This is not a quick solution. There is a lot of retraining and undoing to be done.
Meditation is the practice of just letting go and clearing recognising our true nature.
Excessive mental activity merely stirs up the med and creates more suffering.

Our problem is that we just do not recognise how simple this process is.

Of course, different traditions have different ways to describe this: it is logical, but sometimes we need a little faith or trust just to let go of our fixated ideas.

Tony

PS
Being worn out, frustrated and losing faith is wonderful. The illusion is breaking down.

For years, I was depressed and angry until I realised that the nature of that depression and anger was clarity no longer being able to fit into the limited existence in the pseudo-reality of those around me.

[araucaria]

I know these are just subjective impressions, but I don't think I had the choice to never come back. Therefore, most likely I’ll keep on coming.
(...)
Sorry if I sound rough and crude. I am not a unicorn any more. I am just worn-out and impotent, as I’ve lost faith.

Thanks for your thoughts and support. Your wonderful souls here at Avalon. Courage in your journey.

You’ve lost faith in your ideas. So your ideas are somehow not fit for purpose.


So, if we don’t have a say in that, where is our soul’s sovereignty? Are we spiritual slaves? No, you are here to choose. If I asked you to choose between good and bad, you would choose good as anyone would. So the choice has to be a little more complicated. It is always a choice between this or that. You have to work out what this and that are. Ultimately the choice is between handing over your right to choose to source itself, or selling it to some impostor. Spiritual freedom means reaching the stage of no longer needing to choose all the time; when you have become that choice and become out of reach. Negative entities out of reach of source only exist as illusions because ‘out of reach of source’ is an invalid concept; anything part of source can only play with that illusion, so choice is ultimately about reaching acceptance of the illusory nature of choice.


No-one has answered when we’ve cried out for help. We are stranded in an enclosure surrounded by darkness and ignorance. And that’s all for our good? I have a book of Sudoku puzzles with the solutions in the back. I sometimes refer to them to check if I’m right; it is always possible to ‘cry out for help’ before even properly trying, but what would be the point? I’m not suggesting you are not trying btw, simply that in a learning situation, a kind teacher would not give you the answer on a plate, maybe some subtle hint that you are missing. Darkness: let your eye grow accustomed, there will be something to see; ignorance: let your mind grow accustomed, there will be something to understand.The answer is not important per se and in any case will just lead to another question. What is important is the process of inquiry/growth. The above-mentioned choice is about accepting or refusing that process.


Karma: the equalizer. Does it justify the birth lottery? I can only think about this as a bad joke. Where is compassion in the system? Fair enough, karma may well be a bad joke. I tend to agree with that. Stick to the compassion then. Compassion offsets negative karma, if such a thing exists. It also attracts compassion. Compassion wins every time. It is help that doesn’t need crying out for.


The veil: is it at all necessary? Aren’t we confronted with the same testing situations during our present life, and we do learn from them, even better because we can remember? Isn’t it easier to advance in fuller consciousness? The veil: see above. Advancing in fuller consciousness: I gather it is very much slower. You can always ride up the mountain in bottom gear, but you seem to have decided at some point that you can manage in a higher gear. This means that you get your head down in the handlebars and the view is not so good. You may have come to a bump in the road where you need to drop down a gear or two for a while, and take stock, to advance in fuller consciousness. Just remember, you are setting your own pace, it is not a treadmill.


I wonder if there are other reigns out there where souls can choose life and death as a smooth and conscious transition to a higher experience. With the treasure of their full knowledge and experience. Sure, why not? But you can either accept that you are ‘in here’, i.e. you have chosen to do something different; or you can work towards abolishing the boundary between ‘out there’ and ‘in here’. Or both.

[Agape]

I know these are just subjective impressions, but I don't think I had the choice to never come back. Therefore, most likely I’ll keep on coming.

So, if we don’t have a say in that, where is our soul’s sovereignty? Are we spiritual slaves?



Even if 'you' are gone , 'your information' remains .. remember self is the ultimate illusion. The greater reality is self-less .. If that's what you're asking about it is what happens .
That's why we say to people when they die ( so to say , mostly it's the body that dies ) : rest in Peace .

When your soul gets old .. it turns tired .. all it wants is rest . Lay down the struggle .. efforts .

I think it's what Buddha actually meant when he said 'Only Nirvana is Peace' . There are 4 noble truth he 'discovered' about human life and all are quite fitting.

1. Existence is Suffering . That's why it is so tiring because no matter who embodied or disembodied being you are , there is always pain.

2. The Causes of Suffering .. are that , causes and consequences, the endless physical laws ruling the time-space and all who abide within and getting through and up to other time-spaces demands super-human struggle as well .

3. Path out .. through recognising the causes .. what causes you to experience pain is more like a dissonant emotion . More you ignore the truth, more you get angry, more you try to pull out and protest more it pains. That's my experience , guess many would say the same .
Sometimes, dissolving the very immediate condition actually helps to get better overview . But working this out totally requires being real smart .. because ...the point about

4. Only Nirvana is Peace. It was so observed by Buddha Shakyamuni that there is no ultimate peace in any sort of worldly existence or status, not in any divine status or in formless existence ..

I think he had to feel a little bit like you , or me , and get out of here .

He did not want to reach heavens and enjoy damsels or play with super-powers . He could feel for everyone in this time-wheel is really paining, and wanted to help those who are suffering the most .

Now ..nir-vana actually means .. ''blown out''. Something like 'evaporating' from where you are now. It's a very beautiful state of existence .. merging with the absolute selfless existence around you .. giving up on the 'grip' that holds so tight here .

Embracing the endless vast space ..ultimate peace.. the final sacrifice of this little self and never come back.

Not as you'd remember it anyway but lets say, the Universe will not forget you ... all you did was important for something, someone, all of us together ..
and it stays recorded in the quantum information field that forms galaxies, stars, planets, living beings.. almost forever ..


dRjSi9ELD9I


and if you agree to stay with us till then .. wishing you Peace

:hug:

[deridan]

reiterating what I found concordant to myself.
silly idea, but then it is human nature to reach with silly ideas (possibly shows the collective has been on this plane not so long, curiosity is not far in reaching for things).
..yeah, how to destroy it, ..(gb:)if you can't find it. Perhaps in the dimension with which we could closestly approach spirit, now, it is like a record keeper, -of minimum soul-level.
I don't think people can merely merge into the ONENESS from will. (gurus and victims always play such games)

I think one can inhibit or facilitate the path of spirit. as an unaware human, or one half aware - and still riding the unpredictable tides of self,
-that it, people are either working of karma, or adding to it with new sins from the predisposition---lets not make to-many mistakes, for it takes long to awaken to self, and then realize what forces are at hand

I like the idea of pet and human integrated heavens. if there is such a thing, one can expect intermingled communions/communications.
besides, that would make good practice on how we treat our first aliens.
(in one far flung part of my imagination, I imagined humans as mayhaps pets in another world, would the pets then be the talkers or the ones with dexterity (hands) in that plane. {would the ideal image, i.e. the ideal dog take the downloads from the returning sentient, and perhaps sub-sentient-elemental-creations when they return as through death})

[greybeard]

Can "God" be killed off?
This following thought is not quite true but may be helpful.
In order to annihilate some thing you must first find it.
When the Self is looked for it is found to be love and you fall in love with it--that replaces fear and misery.
The whole purpose of the Buddha after enlightenment was to eliminate human misery.
Only that which is eternal is True everything else is passing.

I too have wished for total end to it all---life was unbearable--I could find nothing to live for in my life--least of all myself.
Then AA happened to me and recovery from misery began.
One eminent psychiatrist said that "If everyone was to follow the twelve steps of AA I would be out of a job"
One of the clichés of AA says "Let go, let God"

If help is asked for sincerely by anyone then it will come--you just have to be open to it.
When anyone has hit rock bottom and enough is enough-- then the choice is suicide or enough humility to say "I have done my best or worst and failed miserably, please help me" You don't even have to believe in God--He believes in you, for He is you.

Chris

Dear graybeard what is AA abreviation standing for (for us not native ENG speakers? sorry didn´t grasp that...) Thank you for an explanation... :-)

Pilgrim

Pilgrim thanks for your question.
Click the link on post 24 ps
There is a full explanation of Alcoholics Anonymous

Best wishes Chris

[Milneman]

I get the impression a few of us know Bill W. :) That's a comforting thought.

I know these are just subjective impressions, but I don't think I had the choice to never come back. Therefore, most likely I’ll keep on coming.

So, if we don’t have a say in that, where is our soul’s sovereignty? Are we spiritual slaves?

The problem with calling a natural law a law is that there is zero guarantee that the exact same behavior will repeat every single time. So you hold a ball in the air, and you let it go, and it falls to the ground. But there's no guarantee it's going to keep falling every single time. There is a chance, even if it is a small chance, that it will not fall.

-or-

Miracles can happen.

Unicorn, a lot of people think about the idea of Heaven as eternal...and they have this notion that eternal means doing the same things over and over again and being bored after a few thousand years, and then suddenly heaven becomes hell, and maybe that's the point when we decide to come back and try another go.

There's another way of looking at it. Maybe Heaven is timeless. Maybe the experience of pure bliss, joy, and love just exists without time. Maybe it's not streets paved with gold, and angels playing harps, but just...pure....love...in a way we could only experience one one thousandth of here on earth. Would you want to come back from that? I think a lot of people would say no, but probably, there are those that say I have to go back to help others find this place.

No-one has answered when we’ve cried out for help. We are stranded in an enclosure surrounded by darkness and ignorance. And that’s all for our good?

How can you be sure no one has answered?

Maybe the answer we get isn't the one we want to hear. It doesn't mean it's not the truth.... but I think I get what you're talking about. Are we to come back over and over to just see the shadows of things that are, or are we to actually struggle, fight, break the chains of our ignorance, and in the blinding light of the sun see things as they really are?

That's the wonderful part of the truth.

We also have to look at ourselves as we really are.

That's the terrifying part of the truth.

Karma: the equalizer. Does it justify the birth lottery? I can only think about this as a bad joke. Where is compassion in the system?


They put it where they knew you'd never think to look for it. They put it somewhere they'd know you'd see it, and say 'No, that can't be." so you would keep looking elsewhere. This is the great game we all play. But if you think hard enough, you'll realize...yup...its been with you the entire time. I promise. ;)

The veil: is it at all necessary? Aren’t we confronted with the same testing situations during our present life, and we do learn from them, even better because we can remember? Isn’t it easier to advance in fuller consciousness?


Oh love...you have the arrow pointed in the wrong direction. Understand this: the game is just this. The veil is what we create to play the game. The game is pretending we aren't what we really are. As long as we have the veil, we can't advance to a fuller consciousness. And that advancement begins only when you understand what your veil is about. And that's the beautiful simplicity of the game.

If you want it to stop, you just stop playing. It really is that simple. And you know what I've found? The people who say it's more complicated are usually the people who are mastering the game and don't want you to notice they are.

And then everyone around you will start to get angry, will wonder what's wrong with you. Freed Fox is going through this right now (and I mention Foxy because it's really significant to me to see this his happening to a lot of people here. This is deeply significant!!) And most people will just...go back to playing. They'll go back to telling lies about themselves, telling lies to each other, and just living in....well...horse manure is the polite way of describing it.

Sorry if I sound rough and crude. I am not a unicorn any more. I am just worn-out and impotent, as I’ve lost faith.

Thanks for your thoughts and support. Your wonderful souls here at Avalon. Courage in your journey.

I'm going to tell you what I told Foxy. You are so close to crossing over the veil right now. You have no idea how close you are. Your hand is on the latch of the gate. The black forest is fighting you right now because it knows how powerful you are for the good side of things. It doesn't value you as an individual, the black forest. You're nothing but a battery. But any time someone stands up and tries to walk out, the black forest has to try and drag them back because...pay attention...this is important...because if you step out and walk on, that means they know they're wrong.

You are now in the fight of your life. Don't you f'n dare give up!!! Fight with everything you've got! And if you feel weary, you let us fight for you until you can!

This is the most important thing you've ever done in your life...what you're doing...right now. People who get this far and don't open the gate have to start over again, and it gets harder, not easier, the older you get.

Don't you dare give up. You are always and always will be a Unicorn.

[tonyp]

Oh dearest Unicorn my heart feels your pain , however I am here to make to make you smile. I have an unusual concept of creation which unlike most of what I have researched and read is refreshingly simple. You might like my interpretation or you might not, but from my perspective it always and forever puts a smile on my face. As one who experiences unknown entities on a regular basis, the good , the bad , the benevolent and maladjusted..I welcome them all and enjoy the challenges they are so willing and able to provide. Generally speaking I like to pit my wits against the Archons because they dont like losing ( Lol ) and they always do and keep on coming back for more lessons. They could be FA ,S or your run of the mill Aliens. When you get to know them as well as I do they can be quite adorable, however it takes experience to handle these tricky little energy attachments. The surprise is that they will always take me to the edge but never over it. The moral of that little story is that the experiment of human existence and creation needed both. Conclude that we are all in the same game but ultimatley both have the same goal.

Ok that apart here is my favoured theory and believe me I have many

1. For sure its all Holographic, there is no physical universe
2. Its all a super highway experience of conciousness
3. We are all just little bits of energy particals from the source
4. Don t forget , if you were the source from day one wish to create play friends not to get bored, THINK ABOUT IT
5 Yes we are all parts of the source
6. Yes its just a game which we all signed up for cause we were all bored the old game probably
7. If we had a memory of past that would completley ruin the game
8 Lucifer was Gods right hand man, for heavens sake noone in that position is ever likely to rebel

Please everyone get a grip on whats real and whats not.

Its true we are all part of the source and I find that immensley reassuring

Love you Unicorn

[Beren]

Many great posts here and they all explain and tell the same;
We are of Source thus cannot be extinguished.

As it is known , energy can never be spent. It change shapes continually. On this level , in this bodies we do not grasp this save a bit through mere theory here.
But when in spirit we grasp all at once.
Once I`ve seen in spirit a new planet being crafted and felt before this how I can feel the whole universe traveling through me and with me.
A profound experience even for a little while.

Down here it is like we are walking a 1000 miles path but in spirit we don`t even fly 1000 miles path , we are instantly there at the goal post.
Can you grasp the picture?

Thus I think that God is giving us bit by bit in understanding so we can grow as children grow.
Another thing I feel is the quickening of the growth since all is changing here.

So friend, soul cannot kill it self. It could be tricked or it can allow to be tricked for the sake of experience which the soul only knows of along with God but down here we don`t get it, we do not understand the highways of the spirit.
But through love we are rising, we are growing and we are remembering how it is to fly in spirit. How can we overcome toddler`s bodies and be grown humans in full ability.

Agape mentioned Buddha`s desires or choices to not be interested in abilities but in genuine help towards mankind to relieve the suffering and grow in Love.
Now this is a thing to ponder...

:angel: ;)

[tonyp]

Wow thats cool Beren and so spiritual and inspiring, I just wish it were true. I m not being sarcarstic or mean nothing detrimental but from my my perspective your heartfelt desire that there is something real at the end of the rainbow is maybe what you want it to be. Iv e been there Man ...yo: ok let me explain.......we are allegedly biological , with our alleged chakras...and our under utilised brain...Biological hmmm Computer ?...I was fortunate enough the other night to be shown by one of my light entity sucking energy super kings how easy it was to download instant HD QUALITY pics and films...and trust me its instant download..I am fortunate to know the truth and I am truly grateful to my energy sucking attaches for showing me the truth. We have an understanding I give them what they want ( high quality energy ) and they give me truth ( always the truth God bless um ) they never ever lie. Ok to those who believe that the human brain is their own...think again...and ok lets say we are in a Matrix controlled by dark entities...ok those who say have reached higher self awareness ok...I say I don t think so...the human brain is totally controlled.

IE.. iTS JUST THE GAME OF LIFE AND EXPERIENCE UNTIL THE SOURCE INVENTS A BETTER ONE

[Orph]

Unicorn, I have been where you are. Felt the same feelings you feel. Asked the same questions you've asked. I've spent a good portion of my life wishing I could just turn myself off, as a person would turn off a light. I've raged to the gods, and cried to the earth. But there is no reply. I've spent my entire adult life searching for an answer. But no answer has been given. Again and again I follow different "teachings" that seem to lead me to "enlightenment", only to come to a dead end and end up back where I started. I would've quit this life a long time ago, except a part of me knows the "darkness" will just follow me into the next life. Nothing at all has changed for me in the world "out there".

But I'm still here.

There is a part of me that won't give up. I can only guess that is the part of me that is eternal. As for the part of you that want's to give up, .... find some time to yourself and just give in to those feelings. (I'm not saying to do something). Just allow yourself to completely feel those things without judgement. Without question. Without guilt. Lie down on your couch, relax, and then give up. Just give up. Dive head first into the feeling of just giving up. In your mind and heart follow the feelings of giving up as far as you can. Go deeper. Feel those feelings. Grow those feelings. Go deeper still. Grow the feelings stronger. You have to do this with every ounce of energy you have. Every bit of imagination you can think of. Make those feelings of emptiness and despair totally consume you. Put yourself right into the very pit of the holocaust of hell.

....................... I won't tell you what to feel next. That's for you to discover. :)

[dim]

and then our nonexistence is seen, and that moment raptures this moment also
we were never true, and we will never be
that's your suicide

[skippy]

The dark night of the soul is the spiritual crisis in the journey towards union with God. The journey is called "The Dark Night", because of the hardships and difficulties the soul meets in detachment from the world. It's the painful experience that people endure as they seek spiritual growth.

"The dark night is a certain inflowing of God into the soul which cleanses it of its ignorances and imperfections, habitual, natural and spiritual. But it may be asked: Why does the soul call the divine light, which enlightens the soul and purges it of its ignorances, the dark night? I reply that the divine wisdom is, for two reasons, not night and darkness only, but pain and torment also to the soul. The first is, the divine wisdom is so high that it transcends the capacity of the soul, and therefore is, in that respect, darkness. The second reason is based on the meanness and impurity of the soul, and in that respect the divine wisdom is painful to it, afflictive and dark also. To prove the truth of the first reason, we take for granted a principle of the philosopher, namely, the more clear and evident divine things are, the more dark and hidden they are to the soul naturally. Thus the more clear the light the more does it blind the eyes of the owl, and the stronger the sun's rays the more it blinds the visual organs; overcoming them, by reason of their weakness, and depriving them of the power of seeing. So the divine light of contemplation, then it beats on the soul, not yet perfectly enlightened, causes spiritual darkness, because it not only surpasses its strength, but because it blinds it and deprives it of its natural perceptions. This is the reason why the illuminating ray of hidden wisdom, when God sends it from Himself into the soul not yet transformed, produces thick darkness in the understanding."
-- St. John of the Cross, The Dark Night of the Soul (La noche oscura del alma -- 1578)

[loungelizard]

Hello Unicorn - and what an excellent thread. My thoughts?

If we see our "soul" as just a temporary collection of elements - form or matter, sensation, perception, mental activity, consciousness - then the way to kill our "soul" is to really understand that each of these elements lacks any inherent existence. We see all things as solid and real and permanent. But the reality is that everything is in a state of change - including us, and what we might call a "soul".

There is nothing that lasts for ever in a state that never changes: everything comes about and dies away through causes and conditions.

If we can experience and realise that through meditation and analysis, then that which we call a "soul" will die! And I think maybe that is enlightenment! We will be freeeeee!
:rapture:

[greybeard]

Die to be reborn.
The me is replaced by the Self. The false sense of individuality is no longer possible.

Its down to definition but to the best of my understanding there is only one Soul and we are that.

Enlightened Indian sages can truthfully say "I am the totality, all of it"

Without diminish Himself God became all that is.

However when your in the depth of despair its not easy to see that despair and misery are creations of the mind.

Chris

[Freed Fox]

The veil: is it at all necessary? Aren’t we confronted with the same testing situations during our present life, and we do learn from them, even better because we can remember? Isn’t it easier to advance in fuller consciousness?

I wanted to mention something about this, and it's just my 2 cents (nothing verifiable about it); I believe we DO remember, but only unconsciously/implicitly. I believe that ones own intuition/conscience is in some ways memory of lives past. The 'little voice' or subtle feelings you get which say 'this is right' or 'that is wrong' are traces of lessons learned in the past, in other incarnations.

The extension of that concept would be that psychopaths and/or sociopaths are merely new or young souls placed in arduous circumstances. They operate without conscience not because they are soulless, but because they have not yet learned.

The best explanation I can muster, as to why we cannot remember more explicitly than that, is simply because of our greater, divine nature. If we remembered what we truly were, and how transcendent that identity really is, we would have no true experience of things such as doubt, fear, uncertainty, or powerlessness. It may be important that we feel these things and understand them, subsequently building compassion for entities in these states as well as garnering greater appreciation for our state when we rise above them, beyond mortal incarnation.

[Chester]

I wonder if there can be something like a spiritual suicide. There is the physical suicide, but that doesn't solve anything, as it doesn't break the chain of incarnations, veil and suffering. But I wish there could be a spiritual suicide. The absolute end. No more incarnations, no more suffering, no more spiritual wars. Nothing. But I am afraid it's impossible. Not even that shameful way out for us.

I am sorry. Those are my sad thoughts.

The death of the false self, the death of retainment of any identity. Have it while alive.

Then you meet you, unmanifest.

[Chester]

The soul is a concept. Maybe I didn't make it up, but I bought into it. But in reality, "my" soul is just another level within an illusion where "I" possess some form of identity.

Me and not me, my soul and the soul's of others... still separate but in a grander delusion.

When I released that last bastion of individual identity, I discovered the real me... formless, infinite, eternal.

What of any of those can end?

[Bubu]

suicide of the soul?? the truth of the matter is we can argue about this forever and no one is gonna be sure. But one thing that I am sure,it is how we existed and will exist, have we been miserable or we have been full of joy?

It's boredom my friend, get your butt out there and join the fun.

[Bubu]

I have notice an increase of frequency of such thread...........alarm bells...

[Milneman]

I have notice an increase of frequency of such thread...........alarm bells...

It's the cloister bell...saying, wake up...there's lauds to be read. And it's been a long time coming that these lauds have been read...a long time indeed.

Bubu don't panic. Its the start of something wonderful. :)

[Anchor]

I have notice an increase of frequency of such thread...........alarm bells...

I don't think its alarming.

Its a good thing to be able to write about that sense of imprisonment that (I assume) we all go through at some point or other. (I say assume because it seems awfully common).

The "dark night of the soul" is a common enough archetype.

We all have our shadow sides and at some time or other they have all had a good opportunity to push us about and test us.

When you are going through a "dark night" experience it, it can be exceedingly harsh (and seem lonely) - the spiritual rubber is hitting the spiritual road and leaving all kinds of tyre smoke and chaos in its wake when it takes off.

My heart goes out to all in this state.

You are not losing it, everything is changing (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?13534-You-are-not-losing-it-everything-is-changing)


Smile!

Breath!

Relax!

Be kind to people!

Be kind to yourself!

Be kind....

See the love in this moment!

Radiate the love to all!

[Agape]

I have notice an increase of frequency of such thread...........alarm bells...

Maybe it's the Christmas time emotion responsible for this ? The family craze and shopping craze and love craze and all who belong together are together .
But many of us are not part of it for some reason, and remain alone in one way or another ..
it's not that it would not exist through out the year but now, you know .. your best 'friends' who can't even call you and certainly can not care a lot because they have important others to care about .
Always someone is left out there in the dark . It's 'a norm' of this 'civilisation'.

'Fun' is usually not the one you seek when you are exactly alone for too long , and helping others or trying to be here for them .. when I realise it's not 'me' they need and want .

It almost seems that it's the share of resources that they could use to prolong their life and reduce their suffering that's worthier, maybe the blood and organs to save their lives , the relics to make their homes prettier .


And if we go to see those real good friends .. somewhere far away .. as sure they are , seek near souls to continue living,
it only turns worse as someone always feel offended by such an effort .

Be happy. :angel: The time will be over , so also the bells ..

[chocolate]

No you can't. You can wonder off in any direction and get lost in preoccupation, but you can't annihilate yourself. Sorry.

But it's an interesting idea. I can think of times that might have had a certain appeal.

Hey, Unicorn! I decided to wander around the place (the forum)...and I found you.

From where I stand on this, what makpierre is saying is the best I could find reading half of your thread. I will shortly read the rest. But.
Unfortunately I can't relate to any spiritual talk that has formed (and always will do so) around here - the oneness, and the universe, karma and all of that.
I am guessing, if you are asking that question you probably also have opened that door behind which are all the answers, or you are very close to opening it.
For me, I wouldn't call it a door, but rather "looking in the direction of the fire in the cave, opposed to the direction of the shadows".

At the moment I am in 'mandatory refusal'. ;) [for reference the expression I have taken from the TV series "La Femme Nikita"]

But I also see no other point of existence than to stick around and try to help other fellow humans, to just nag at then that this is as good as you think it is or as you can make it, the limitless possibilities, that sort of thing.

To be or not to be.
To be for the time being.
But yes, the idea of a "soul suicide" has a certain appeal. :p

Don't give up.
The best is not yet to come, but something will. It will be what you choose it to be.

[chocolate]

It's not physics. You can argue that, but I won't argue back. Physics is a need to understand and explain things. Your Soul already knows that stuff.
[...]. I don't use that term, so I'd rather not have it thrown back at me.

The concept of 'oneness' is meaningless as a concept, although it is a bit of fun.
Your looming experience of 'oneness' will be a shock to you. A pleasant one though.

Okay, I see I am not alone.

But what if what you and I are saying is partially or completely wrong? Even though 'I feel' I am not, because it fits in perfectly with everything I already 'know', and because you are using almost the exact words I would, without talking to me or even knowing anything about me... ;)

Unicorn, I will try to make it a bit light or mysterious, you choose.

I had a vision a month or so back... experimenting with some practices and such.
So in that 'vision' I saw a horse. The head of a horse and partially the front body. A white one. Didn't have a horn though ;).
It was in a dense white fog. The horse was just looking at me and waiting. For something or someone...I think I had something to do with it. Anyway.
Behind me there was a well of water, something like a stone fountain of the very old type horses used to drink from in some of the villages around here. It had grass on top of it, with moss and moist covering the partially visible stones.

So I joined the horse and we started going through the thick fog in one direction.:llama:
Where did we end up? I didn't see that.
I think the journey had began [the one way journey ;)]. And I am guessing we will reach "that beautiful somewhere'. Because it is always there.

If you, or I, come back here again, it will be, again, with our consent and will serve a purpose. No need to kill the original 'soul' as you call it.

Right now, from my current 'world' perspective, I don't wanna come back here. If things change, will let you know.

And Bubu, no, nothing to be alarmed about, nor it is boredom.
Our roads are just nearing the exit point.

---->
Just decided to share.

As FreedFox put it, we need to 'bear it with a grin'.
I am doing that with a rather sincere smile on my face.

[jackovesk]

Suicide of the Soul only occurs if you give in to (Malevolent Force) - Whatever the Form e.g. (Evil Entities that are both ON & OFF Planet) that are trying their best to take it from you..!

Sounds pretty scary doesn't it...:scared:

Don't be worried though...:nono:

Just be vigilant, stay on your Journey, be true to you Soul purpose and don't give that (POWER) over to anyone & (Don't Conform) to the Evil-Dooers Agenda...:wizard:

Simply put - Stay true to (Yourself) live in the moment and don't pay attention to those trying take your Humanity/Soul essence away by Stealth. Knowing that your on the (Winning Team of TRUTH) and your (Mind stays Healthy & Focussed) counteracting those that wish enslave you or worse..!

[Mini Flash]

Hello Unicorn

Sorry to hear that you are unhappy in life

I just want to let you know that the world is dark and cruel, but there are better places! Humans are most of the time so heartless or stupide, but there are some extraordinairy souls out there to simply love you for who you are.

I can feel that you are very sad and fed up with all the challenges.. I am maybe young, but i know how you feel. Life is hard. Spiritual battles are very hard too! And to make it worst, there is all the heartless people who destroys others.

But keep in mind we need you. We need your love as much as you need ours.

Sorry if my message might not help you. But i couldnt read your post without trying to help you or encourage you

I hope everything will be okay

Sending you much love

[tonyp]

I need help bigtime..posessed I am..energy chords ? Demons. Low level Parasitites, Greys ? do not know ...its getting worse ...I used to have some level of control but they are now taking over...iI have prayed and called and I still suffer , I have revoked all contracts but nothing works ..please help if you can..thank you..I will kill myself soon if I cannot rid myself of these entities

[sheme]

Try getting a piece of black tourmaline, this helped me when I was going through a psychic attack it will absorb all negativity allowing you to get your sheilds back up Scotty, Where are you in Wales? Please don't despair this will be gone soon.

[sheme]

I have just done a search just for you TonP "Ask the universe " I hope you can find the picture referenced called the Catcher use it it keeps you very safe.

http://www.thespiritualcatalyst.com/universe

"Mankind undervalues visualization, because we have been lead to believe that thoughts are the cast off abstractions of the brain. But visualization, is source's attribute of creation which is acting through the mind of mankind. As extensions of source, whenever we visualize, we bring forth the essence of what we visualize into visible, tangible, physical experience. No form ever came into existence without someone consciously holding a picture of that form first in his or her thoughts." -Teal- 2012-07-31


Watch video
What are The Akashic Records? Amazing New Information Part 1 About Akashic Records.
Watch Video >>

Preview_the-catcher-teal-eye-print-store
The Catcher
A vibration used to "catch" (or trap) negative thoughts towards the self so that a person may express themselves without reserve and portray more of who they really are to the world
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[sheme]

To raise our vibration we should eat as much fresh raw food as possible avoid alcohol sugar and processed food, drink spring water and avoid all unprescribed medication, soon your physical vibration will increase making it impossible for negative vibrational entities to exist in your presence. Use music of a spiritual nature to envelope you and clear your aura- when you are still enough try to do simple meditation, keep away from negative personalities. You are fine. peace surrounds you and yours.

Lots of relaxing music can be found on the tube.

[Unicorn]

I used to have some level of control but they are now taking over...iI have prayed and called and I still suffer , I have revoked all contracts but nothing works ..please help if you can..thank you..I will kill myself soon if I cannot rid myself of these entities

Please Tonyp stay with us. Don't give up. That's probably what they want. Your ultimate sacrifice. Your precious energy. Share all that suffering with us, if that helps. But not let them overcome you. We all need you, their constant attack on you is the best proof of that.

Recently you gave me words of support. Now I tell you that if physical end was the solution, I would have probably killed myself, too. But I know that's not the solution. Definitely not.

I pray for you and send all the energy that's left in this worn out warrior. Let's endure. All my strenght and Love for you.

[greybeard]

You can not kill your soul its eternal.
If you kill the body then you will have to come back in another and go through the same thing till its resolved.
External energies/entities feed on fear.
If you have not done so and are affected by these things--ask the God of your understanding for help and to look after you.
Hand the situation over to God and trust that the situation will be looked after.
If some things comes back--say "Go talk to the Boss, He is in charge of my life"
Do enter into any dialogue or emotional response---starve it of attention without being in denial--not suppression.

If there is no belief in a God--just say "If there is a God I ask Him for help"

Chris

[chocolate]

I used to have some level of control but they are now taking over...iI have prayed and called and I still suffer , I have revoked all contracts but nothing works ..please help if you can..thank you..I will kill myself soon if I cannot rid myself of these entities

Please Tonyp stay with us. Don't give up. That's probably what they want. Your ultimate sacrifice. Your precious energy. Share all that suffering with us, if that helps. But not let them overcome you. We all need you, their constant attack on you is the best proof of that.

Recently you gave me words of support. Now I tell you that if physical end was the solution, I would have probably killed myself, too. But I know that's not the solution. Definitely not.

I pray for you and send all the energy that's left in this worn out warrior. Let's endure. All my strenght and Love for you.

Now, that is more like it!
You see, the moment you see someone needs you is the moment when you forget about your own problems. ...

Tony, stop your resistance. That is what is killing you. The more you resist, less likely becoms to free yourself. Accept it is. Love what is because everything that is, is you.
And than change it. It is like learning how to swim. Stop flying your hands and feet into the water and relax, that is the only way you will be able to float on the surface instead of gulp some water and start going down.

I had a moment when I was frightened because of something that tried to do something. Or so it seemed. But since I am not very much concerned with the fate of my personal self, physically, i managed to just sit and not think about anything for a while. I saw the situation from a POV that is above. And saw myself trying to show myself something of importance. All demons for the most part just come out of our own imagination. I am not saying there is no bad force doing all kinds of things, all I am saying is that you are above it when it comes to powers, but you struggle underneath instead of realizing you need to be the one on top.

[Shabd_Mystic]

I wonder if there can be something like a spiritual suicide. There is the physical suicide, but that doesn't solve anything, as it doesn't break the chain of incarnations, veil and suffering. But I wish there could be a spiritual suicide. The absolute end. No more incarnations, no more suffering, no more spiritual wars. Nothing. But I am afraid it's impossible. Not even that shameful way out for us.

I am sorry. Those are my sad thoughts.

Here is one of the only paths that promise escape from the cycle of births and deaths. It takes you well beyond "mind" and such things as "kundalini" and "enlightenment" (though both will happen in the early part of the path).

This is a spiritual classic that covers countless things pertaining to this path (that was also taught by Nanak, Kabir, Rumi, and if you believe the Gnostic texts represent the true teachings of Jesus, then Jesus Christ as well).

It was written by Dr. Julian Johnson, an accomplished surgeon, pilot and Baptist manager who traveled to India to "convert the heathens" to Christianity but was instead himself converted. He was the first to share this incredible story with the Western world (there are now close to 2 million followers though few have ever heard of it because they don't want publicity or donations or the things most groups desire) -

PDF - The Path Of The Masters (http://www.scribd.com/doc/49104845/ThePathOfTheMasters-1)

HTML - There was a version of the book online but I can't find it. If I do I will post the link.

And the group that teaches it (Dr. Johnson's group) -

RSSB (http://www.rssb.org/)

If you truly want to never have to return to this plane, this is the answer for you. Better yet, after you have folloed for a while this world won't even be a problem any more. You already have the most important thing there is, you obviously aren't attached to this plane. That is very rare and is Grace!