Reverse osmosis filter for removing fluoride and other chemicals

[Sloppyjoe]

Hello all, I was wondering if any of you had any personal experience with RO systems and if you would recommend a particular RO filter for removing fluoride and other chemicals? I currently drink tap water and drink a lot of it(im an exercise nut) so I feel like I'm getting the worst of it. Thank you!

[chancy]

hello Sloppyjoe:

I have had alot of experience with water and filtration etc. due to my business.
Most tap water is neutral PH. As soon as you reverse osmosis, UV or distill the water it goes highly acidic.
You will get the chlorine and fluoride out but then you have the problem of the water becoming extremely acidic. (All bottled water is highly acidic )
If you are trying to improve your health then you would be wise to drink a good PH healthy water that has the fluoride and chlorine taken out. From testing and using all types of water the best I have found is making distilled water and then making it alkaline by adding baking soda as has been discussed many times on this forum.
It works out to taking a 1 gallon jug of distilled water and adding 1 teaspoon of baking soda. Shaking it up to dissolve the baking soda and now you have a jug of alkaline water that is healthy for you. The water will now be about 7.5 - 8.5 depending on the size of teaspoon you are using.

Your body will take some time to get back to a normal PH level due to the acidity of the food we eat unless you are a vegetarian. Then just adjust the PH level of water to meet your needs for long term useage.

Good luck with the water.
chancy

[Tangri]

hello Sloppyjoe:

I have had alot of experience with water and filtration etc. due to my business.
Most tap water is neutral PH. As soon as you reverse osmosis, UV or distill the water it goes highly acidic.
You will get the chlorine and fluoride out but then you have the problem of the water becoming extremely acidic. (All bottled water is highly acidic )
If you are trying to improve your health then you would be wise to drink a good PH healthy water that has the fluoride and chlorine taken out. From testing and using all types of water the best I have found is making distilled water and then making it alkaline by adding baking soda as has been discussed many times on this forum.
It works out to taking a 1 gallon jug of distilled water and adding 1 teaspoon of baking soda. Shaking it up to dissolve the baking soda and now you have a jug of alkaline water that is healthy for you. The water will now be about 7.5 - 8.5 depending on the size of teaspoon you are using.

Your body will take some time to get back to a normal PH level due to the acidity of the food we eat unless you are a vegetarian. Then just adjust the PH level of water to meet your needs for long term useage.

Good luck with the water.
chancy

Sorry to intervene but I need to correct your assumption on Distillate water- pure water. Distillate water pH rate is 7.001 -6.999. This means, it's pH close to neutral.
It fluctuates with contamination because of it's unstable status. It is prone to absorb anything it contact.

[Amanda]

My understanding of sodium fluoride in the water is that it is impossible to get out. The other fact is that it is next to impossible to remove once it has leached into your bones. Now the positive aspects - I have not imbibed with tap water where I live due to sodium fluoride being added to the town water supply - for two years. My health is far better on many aspects as I purchase my drinking water. The best I can do is adhere to only drinking and cooking with bottled water when at home and then of course life goes on and in social settings I am exposed to the sodium fluoride in beverages and cooking.

After conducting my own research it is my understanding that water filters do not have the ability to remove the sodium fluoride - some brands can remove heavy metals and other contaminants but not the toxic industrial waste product that is sodium fluoride. Sometimes I think the best we can do is to conduct our own research, use your cognition and intellect to process the information that is available and then make the best choices you can with the options that are present.

Much Peace - Amanda

[Shannow]

hello Sloppyjoe:

I have had alot of experience with water and filtration etc. due to my business.
Most tap water is neutral PH. As soon as you reverse osmosis, UV or distill the water it goes highly acidic.
You will get the chlorine and fluoride out but then you have the problem of the water becoming extremely acidic. (All bottled water is highly acidic )
If you are trying to improve your health then you would be wise to drink a good PH healthy water that has the fluoride and chlorine taken out. From testing and using all types of water the best I have found is making distilled water and then making it alkaline by adding baking soda as has been discussed many times on this forum.
It works out to taking a 1 gallon jug of distilled water and adding 1 teaspoon of baking soda. Shaking it up to dissolve the baking soda and now you have a jug of alkaline water that is healthy for you. The water will now be about 7.5 - 8.5 depending on the size of teaspoon you are using.

Your body will take some time to get back to a normal PH level due to the acidity of the food we eat unless you are a vegetarian. Then just adjust the PH level of water to meet your needs for long term useage.

Good luck with the water.
chancy

Sorry to intervene but I need to correct your assumption on Distillate water- pure water. Distillate water pH rate is 7.001 -6.999. This means, it's pH close to neutral.
It fluctuates with contamination because of it's unstable status. It is prone to absorb anything it contact.

Yep, it is "hungry" for minerals...but no acidic.

When the pure water inside the boilers and turbines leaks onto concrete, it dissolves it.

[chancy]

Hello Everyone:
Thanks for the imput in regards to distilled water and the PH of it. I fully agree but we are not in a lab and the distilled water being made or bought does not conform to a neutral PH of 7.0 .

I have tested many, many, many brands of distilled water and they all read between 4.5 - 6.0 PH. The tests have been done with electronic PH testers and PH strips. Every time they read the same.
When I make distilled water with a very, very expensive water distiller the results are the same.

In a perfect world we would be getting the correct PH for pure water which is a PH of 7.0 BUT it doesn't work out that way in our world.

I welcome anyone to test their bought distilled water or their bought water with PH strips or an electronic PH tester. You will all find the truth for our world.
Sorry to get off the track of reverse osmosis but we are trying to get healthy water right?

chancy

[nevermnd]

Just be mindful with store bought bottled water because a lot of companies add fluoride to them as well. Pretty much all premium water brands like SmartWater and Evian have fluoride in them.
Here is a list of fluoride free waters:
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/salud/salud_fluor35.htm

[alh02]

Some points to consider before purchasing a RO system to filter drinking water:

1. Make sure you choose a system that has an ion-exchange resin component incorporated into its design. Much of the fluoride in tap water exists in ionic form and the particles are far to small for most standard RO systems to remove.

2. RO systems have the unfortunate effect of removing beneficial minerals from the water that flows through them. Demineralised (or "dead") water is not particularly beneficial for humans as it lacks the essential minerals that our bodies need to function properly.

3. RO systems alter the acidity (PH) of the water that flows though them. It is important that the PH of our drinking water is set at the optimal level (as explained above by chancy).

To alleviate the effects outlined in points 2 and 3, one might consider purchasing a secondary filtration system to re-mineralise and adjust the PH of water that has been pre-filtered by a RO system. There are a number of relatively inexpensive table-top filters on the market that are capable of dealing with both of these issues.

The key thing to remember here is that while RO filters are very effective at removing organic matter (viruses, bacteria, mould etc), heavy metals, and the vast majority of toxic chemicals that are commonly found in drinking water, there are some trade offs that also need to be taken into consideration if the goal is to produce healthful water that is nourishing and easily/readily absorbed by the body.

I wish there was an all-in-one water filtration system that could remove fluoride complexly while still maintaining the integrity of the water so it is well-suited for human consumption, but as far as my research has shown me there are no such products available on the market.

That said, if there IS a product out there that is capable of doing all of the above that I'm not aware of I would very much like to hear about it. Until that happens though, I think the only solution is to use a combination of known water filtration/treatment methods (as mentioned above) to achieve the desired water purification results.

[Tangri]

Dr. Richard Sauerheber, a chemistry professor in San Diego, that not all reverse osmosis (R-O) systems achieve satisfactory results. Sauerheber tested the effectiveness of various R-O systems and found that the efficiency of removing fluoride varied significantly among systems, and seemed to depend, in part, on the flow rate of the water. In others, the greater the flow of water through the system, the less effective they were at removing fluoride. I have no way of verifying the accuracy of Sauerheber’s results, but I believe they are worth considering.

The filters that Suauerheber found to be the most effective at removing fluoride were “bone char” filters. This is a filter that has been used on a large scale in some areas of the world with widespread fluoride poisoning (e.g., India). They might, however, be difficult to get hold of in western countries.

If you are considering purchasing a filter that uses deionization, make sure that it uses an “ion exchange resin.” If it does not use an ion exchange resin, it will not remove the fluoride.

In an R-O system, the fluoridated water is forced at high pressure through a membrane. The fluoride ions, with a sheath of water molecules, are too large to pass through the small pores in the membrane and only the water can get through. Thus virtually pure water is squeezed through the membrane.

By contrast, an ion exchange resin consists of both a cation exchange resin (which exchanges a positive hydrogen ion for any metal ions present) and a negative exchange resin (which exchanges a hydroxyl ion for the fluoride ion). When both resins are used together the hydrogen ions produced by one resin and the hydroxyl ions produced by the other instantly combine to form water. The distinct advantage of this system is that when either resin is saturated, ions will appear in the collected water, which will immediately and dramatically increase the electrical conductivity of the solution and thus be readily detectable by a very cheap monitoring system. FAN’s Director, Paul Connett, personally observed the operation of an ion-exchange resin system when he stayed with Dr. Mark Diesendorf in Sydney, Australia, and was impressed with its efficiency. According to Connett, “The flow rate was very fast and Mark could quickly collect several bottles for his use throughout the day as well as taking a bottle or two to work the next morning.”

[kersley]

I have one set up in my kitchen. I use it for my fish and of course thats all I drink from. fantastic thats all I can say.

[Rozzy]

Unlike many of you out there I am on a well and the water is about as good as it gets, virtually neutral PH, not high in any particular mineral. I filter through a simple sediment filter but that is the extent of it, even that stays clean through the change date. Where ever I travel I carry my well water, I supplement Iodine in my diet and feel like a million bucks. Seeing how it is christmas time I am enjoying a nice Cuban cigar to celebrate:canada: Best of the season to you all.:cool:

[GNC Harteveld]

Some points to consider before purchasing a RO system to filter drinking water:
RO systems have the unfortunate effect of removing beneficial minerals from the water that flows through them. Demineralised (or "dead") water is not particularly beneficial for humans as it lacks the essential minerals that our bodies need to function properly.

From what i understand it's even worse than that, the demineralized water will reducing minerals in you body through osmoses.

Osmosis is the spontaneous net movement of solvent molecules through a partially permeable membrane into a region of higher solute concentration, in the direction that tends to equalize the solute concentrations on the two sides.
You're diluting the minerals in your body.

[alh02]

Some points to consider before purchasing a RO system to filter drinking water:
RO systems have the unfortunate effect of removing beneficial minerals from the water that flows through them. Demineralised (or "dead") water is not particularly beneficial for humans as it lacks the essential minerals that our bodies need to function properly.

From what i understand it's even worse than that, the demineralized water will reducing minerals in you body through osmoses.

Osmosis is the spontaneous net movement of solvent molecules through a partially permeable membrane into a region of higher solute concentration, in the direction that tends to equalize the solute concentrations on the two sides.
You're diluting the minerals in your body.


Yes, that is also my understanding.


Which is why it is so important to RE-mineralise water that has been filtered by RO.

[Sloppyjoe]

Thanks for all the replies, I recently talked to someone that knows a lot about alternative medicines, here is what he had to say..

RO doesn't work, and if you can only use tap water then store it in a glass or copper jug, add lugol's iodine to it(to combat the fluoride) and then add wedges/juice from fruits such as lemons, mangos, apples, etc to enrich your water with minerals.

What do you guys think?

[Abhaya]

Why not just eat the fruit ?

Don't we get our minerals from our food and our, um water from our water. I have been on a distilled water only program for years. Perfect health at my last check up.


I've heard that distilled water is acidic. I know you prefer that we keep our bodies as alkaline as possible, so how can distilled water be good for us?

It's true that distilled water is acidic, whether it comes from a store-bought jug or a distiller at home. The acidity occurs because carbon dioxide from the atmosphere dissolves in the water, creating a very dilute solution of carbonic acid. Distilled water in a container that’s been sitting open for a while could have a pH in the range of 6. (For comparison, vinegar has a pH of about 4, or 100 times as acidic.) Your body responds to this trivial amount of acidity by producing more stomach acid. So long as your digestive system is in good shape, and you're not taking any medication to block the production of stomach acid, then the amount of acidity from distilled water won't affect any body processes.



Read more: http://www.drdavidwilliams.com/distilled-water/#ixzz2ohJceXr8

Also found this

[Abhaya]

In regards to minerals


Does distilled water leach minerals from our bodies?

Absolutely, not...in fact just the opposite has been found to occur in cellular research studies. It is a mistaken belief that drinking pure distilled water reduces valuable minerals from living human tissues.
ORGANIC MINERALS VS. INORGANIC MINERALS

There are two types of minerals, organic and inorganic. Human physiology has a biological affinity for organic minerals. Most organic minerals for our body functions come from dietary plant foods. A growing plant converts the inorganic minerals from the soils to a useful organic mineral. When an organic mineral (from a plant food) enters the stomach it must attach itself to a specific protein-molecule(chelation) in order to be absorbed, then it gains access to the tissue sites where it is needed. Once a plant mineral is divested within the body, it is utilized as a coenzyme for composing body fluids, forming blood and bone cells, and the maintaining of healthy nerve transmission.(Balch & Balch 1990)

Without a healthy organic mineral balance inside and outside the cells of muscle, blood, and bone substructures, the body will began to spasm, twitch and cramp, eventually deteriorating to a full"rigor complex", and/or complete failure.

INORGANIC MINERALS FROM TAPWATER ARE "BAD NEWS".

Tap water presents a variety of inorganic minerals which our body has difficulty absorbing. Their presence is suspect in a wide array of degenerative diseases, such as hardening of the arteries, arthritis, kidney stones, gall stones, glaucoma, cataracts, hearing loss, emphysema, diabetes, and obesity. What minerals are available, especially in "hard" tapwater, are poorly absorbed, or rejected by cellular tissue sites, and, if not evacuated, their presence may cause arterial obstruction, and internal damage.(Dennison 1993, Muehling 1994, Banik 1989)

ORGANIC MINERALS ARE PREFERRED

Is it any wonder why the body prefers the richest source of mineral substrates from organic foods instead of the mineral-poor sources from tap water? Even if the human tissue suddenly developed the ability to absorb inorganic minerals from tap water, it would take an enormous amount of tapwater to supply the bare minimal mineral quantities for human life functions. If(for example) the rich inorganic mineral content of the tap water in Reno, Nevada were modified so that it would convert the daily Calcium requirement(RDA) from its inorganic calcium solutes, one would have to drink 7.4 gallons of their tap water.

DISTILLED WATER ACTUALLY ENHANCES MINERAL ABSORPTION RATES

Distilled Pure Water will not conduct electricity when only 2 parts inorganic minerals or less are present. Water with 5 parts inorganic content per million parts water(or more) will conduct electricity, completing a simple circuit and lighting a tester bulb! The higher the inorganic content is in a per million count, the less effectively water transmits organic minerals to tissue sites. Bottled water, tapwater, reverse-osmosis filtered water, and carbon-block filtered water(when tested) will conduct electricity, substantiating that each one is not the best carrier for the mineral-transport and mineral-absorption(Muehling 1994). Our tapwater in the USA has been shown to contain 19 "inorganic metals of concern"(1994 Safe Water Drinking Act), for which maximum contaminant levels have been set.(Tone 1994) Most American tapwater tested falls between the ranges of 350 parts per million to over 1000 parts per million total contaminants.(Colgan 1993)

REPEAT THE QUESTION PLEASE...

Does drinking distilled water leach the minerals from the body? No, quite the opposite. If inorganic minerals are "removed" from tapwater, by converting it into pure distilled water, the result is remarkable biological mineral absorption for both overall health and maximal metabolic activity. The application of this query has a remarkably high correlation to the general properties of maximal absorption rates, and particularly for all micronutrients which traverse the gastric chambers directly into muscle cells for premium performance demand during strenuous activity.

Distillation is the most effective method of water purification for the removal of organic, inorganic, radioactive, and biological contaminants. It removes a greater percentage of these harmful impurities than reverse osmosis, filtering, or any other method of purification.

Muehling EC, "Pure Water Now: Its Time For Action," 2cd Ed., Pure Water Inc., Lincoln, Neb., 1994:1-42.

Dennison C, "Why I Drink Distilled Water", Reprint Form 6300, Pure Water Inc., Lincoln, Neb.,1993.

Tone J, "Your Drinking Water-How Good Is It?", National Testing Laboratories Inc., Cleveland, Ohio,1994:21.

Banik AE, "The Choice Is Clear," ACRES USA, Metaire, Louisiana, 1989:37.

Balch JF, Balch PA, PRESCRIPTION FOR NUTRITIONAL HEALING, Avery Publishing Co., Garden City, NY, 1990:17.

Colgan M, OPTIMUM SPORTS NUTRITION, Advanced Research Press, New York, NY, 1993:23-24.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Any one interested in distilled water at all I would recommend to google Andrew Norton webber.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

an activated alumina water filter will eliminate fluoride

distilling water will remove some of it ( 80 % ) if you capture between 100 and 104 c

N

[Connecting with Sauce]

Here is a thread on the original PA forum on water.

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7340

Also one of the best forms of distilled waters is your own water from your kidney see links in my signature.

I use a distiller which is all in the thread above.

[Elainie]

I have a whole house filter that has a separate fluoride one attached to it but I am not sure how much I trust it. I've been meaning to buy a Berkey with their fluoride attachment and run our filtered water through that for extra safety measures. I had an RO system years ago when I lived in Arizona. I've never had to worry about fluoride until I moved here as my water source for other houses was spring fed and then filtered.

[13th Warrior]

An activated alumina filter will only reduce floride and you need to replace them often because of limited reduction capacity...

[Rocky_Shorz]

Turmeric Prevents Fluoride From Destroying Your Brain (http://b4in.org/q1dQ)


Fluoride is found everywhere today, from antibiotics to drinking water, no stick pans to toothpaste, making exposure inevitable. All the more reason why new research proving this common spice can prevent fluoride damage is so promising!

Fluoride’s neurotoxicity has been the subject of academic debate for decades, and now a matter of increasingly impassioned controversy among the general public, as well. From ‘conspiracy theories’ about it being first used in drinking water in Russian and Nazi concentration camps to chemically lobotomize captives, to its now well-known IQ lowering properties, to its ability to enhance the calcification of the pineal gland – the traditional ‘seat of the soul’ – many around the world, and increasingly in the heavily fluoridated regions of the United States, are starting to organize at the local and statewide level to oust this ubiquitous toxicant from municipal drinking water.

Now, a new study published in the Pharmacognosy Magazine titled, “Curcumin attenuates neurotoxicity induced by fluoride: An in vivo evidence,” adds experimental support to the suspicion that fluoride is indeed a brain-damaging substance, also revealing that a natural spice-derived protective agent against the various health effects associated with this compound is available.

The study was authored by researchers from the Department of Zoology, University College of Science, M.L. Sukhadia University, Udaipur, India, who have spent the past decade investigating the mechanisms through which fluoride induces severe neurodegenerative changes in the mammalian brain, particularly in cells of the hippocampus and cerebral cortex.[i] [ii]

The study opens by describing the historical backdrop for concern about fluoride’s significant and wide ranging toxicity:

“Fluoride (F) is probably the first inorganic ion which drew attention of the scientific world for its toxic effects and now the F toxicity through drinking water is well-recognized as a global problem. Health effect reports on F exposure also include various cancers, adverse reproductive activities, cardiovascular, and neurological diseases.[1,2]“

[Connecting with Sauce]

Drink distilled water. Andrew Norton Webber and Lisa Harrison do a good discussion on it in YouTube.

[ThePythonicCow]

Drink distilled water. Andrew Norton Webber and Lisa Harrison do a good discussion on it in YouTube.

Distilled water is lacking both structure (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-T7tCMUDXU) and minerals.

I distill my own drinking water, as the last of several stages to remove the "crap" from it (typical municipal water supply.)

But then I attempt to restore it with

Himalayan or Real (http://realsalt.com/) salt
3 parts Potassium bicarbonate (from nuts.com) to 1 part Sodium bicarbonate (aka Baking Soda)
Magnesium bicarbonate (here's the trick (http://www.gwens-nest.com/natural-remedies/magnesium-supplements-a-great-diy-recipe/) to making it.)
Willard water (http://drwillard.com/) (especially for the sulfates)
A splash of lemon juice

I'm still on the look out for a good way to get it flowing as a vortex in a magnetic field, once the above are added.

[NancyV]

We have a Berkey water filter which I bought from this website:

http://www.directive21.com/product-category/berkey-water-filter-systems/.

I bought a set of fluoride water filters in addition to the regular black filters that come with it. We just recently moved to a small town north of Vancouver WA and I found out a couple of weeks ago that the city council voted to stop using fluoride in the water supply which they implemented as of last year.

We really like the water from the Berkey filter, which is a gravity filter. It tastes great and is MUCH better than the distilled water we used to use.

Table of Impurities and Toxins eliminated by the Black Berkey water filter elements:
http://www.berkeywaterfilterseurope.com/black-berkey-water-filters.html#table

Contaminants
Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs)
Removed to below detectable limits

VIRUSES >99.999%
Exceeds purification standards:
MS2 - Fr Coliphage

PATHOGENIC BACTERIA, CYSTS AND PARASITES >99.9999%
Exceeds purification standards:
E. Coli - Klebsiella - Pseudomonas Aeruginosa - Giardia - Cryptosporidium - Raoultella Terrigena

TRIHALOMETHANES
Removed to below detectable limits:
Bromodichloromethane - Bromoform - Chloroform - Dibromochloromethane
(Health effects: muscle & nervous system disorders, cancer)

RADIOLOGICALS
Removed to below detectable limits:
Radon 222

INORGANIC MINERALS
Removed to below detectable limits:
Chlorine Residual
(Health effects: birth defects, cancer)

Alachlor
Atrazine
Benzene
Carbofuran
Carbon Tetrachloride
Chlorine
Chlorobenzene
Chloroform
2,4-D
DBCP
p-Dichlorobenzene
o-Dichlorobenzene
1,1-Dichloroethane
1,2-Dichloroethane
1,1-Dichloroethylene
cis1,2_Dichloroethylene
Trans_1,2_Dichloroethylene
1,2-Dichloropropane
cis-l,3-Dichloropropylene
Dinoseb
Endrin
Ethylbenzene
Ethylene Dibromide (EDB)
Heptachlor
Heptachlor Epoxide
Hexachlorobutadiene
Hexachlorocyclopentadiene
Lindane
Methoxychlor
MTBE
Pentachlorophenol
Simazine
Styrene
1,1,2,2-Tetrachloroethane
Tetrachloroethylene
Toluene
2,4,5-TP (Silvex)
1,2,4-trichlorobenzene
1,1,1-trichloroethane
1,1,2-trichloroethane
Trichloroethylene
o-Xylene
m-Xylene
p-Xylene

See the latest test results by the Environmental Toxicology Laboratory of Los Angeles: http://www.berkeywaterfilterseurope.com/environmental-toxicology-lab-test-results.html

HEAVY METALS - Reduced by up to 95%:
CONTAMINANT HEALTH EFFECTS
Lead kidney, nervous system damage
Mercury kidney, nervous system disorders
Aluminum respiratory, nervous system disorders
Cadmium kidney damage
Chromium liver, kidney, circulatory system disorders
Copper gastro-enteric diseases

ALSO REMOVES OR REDUCES: rust, silt, sediments, detergents, cloudiness, iron, nitrates & nitrites, organic solvents, foul taste and odors.

How the Black Berkey water filter elements work:

The unique Berkey design combines the age-old process of micro-porous filtration coupled with modern state-of-the-art technology and the highest quality materials to bring you the finest water purification system available anywhere. The micro-pores within the self-sterilizing and re-cleanable Black Berkey water purification elements are so small that pathogenic bacteria are simply not able to pass through them.

The media within the elements remove contaminants by a surface phenomenon known as “adsorption” which results from the molecular attraction of substances to the surface of the media. The exclusive purification elements are also impregnated with proprietary “absorbing” media that promote IONIC “absorption” of pollutants within the micro-porous elements.

Another reason Berkey water filter systems are so effective in removing contaminants from water is the extremely long “contact period”. Other filtration systems rely on water pressure that forces water molecules through the filter elements at 60-90 PSI. These water molecules come into contact with the filter media for a mere fraction of a second. By comparison water molecules, passing through the “Tortuous Path” structure of the Black Berkey water purification elements, are drawn gently by gravity and stay in contact with the media for a long period of time. This allows the filter media to be more efficient in capturing contaminates. For example, if you were to hurl 100 steel ball bearings at a large magnet, some would stick but most would bounce off. However, if you were to walk over and gently place the ball bearings on the magnet most, if not all, would adhere to the magnet. Berkey water filter systems fully utilize this principle.

All Berkey models come equipped with 2 Black Berkey water filter elements.*

This advanced technology was developed, refined, and proven through years of diligent, investigative research and testing performed by water purification specialists, researchers and engineers. The flow rate or time of exposure through the exclusive Black Berkey water purification elements has been calculated to yield the greatest volume removal of toxic chemicals and pathogenic bacteria found in nature and caused by pollution from industry and agriculture.

[onawah]

I would suggest taking a look at the Berkey site, particularly this page:
http://www.berkeyfilters.com/berkey-water-filters/fluoride.html
Their claim is that their filters made for removing fluoride (which are in addition to their regular filters) reduce the amount of fluoride in your water by 95%.
If you look at the webpage, they don't use the term "sodium fluoride" but they do refer to the fluoride that their filters remove as the stuff that is added to municipal water.
But I have emailed them and asked them if they are referring to sodium fluoride, which is an industrial waste, not naturally occurring fluoride.

Here is the comparison of Berkey filtered water vs distilled and RO water from:
http://www.berkeyfilters.com/berkey-answers/berkey-water-filter-faq/


Which of the three methods of water filtration, reverse osmosis, distillation or Berkey purification is the healthiest for drinking purposes?

With respect to the healthfulness of the water, most health experts that are up to date on current research are no longer recommending drinking RO or distilled water on a long-term basis because these methods remove all the beneficial minerals from the water making the water an acidic "hypotonic" solution. A chemist will tell you that any time a hypotonic (de-mineralized) solution comes into contact with a "hypertonic" (mineralized) solution, the minerals within the hypertonic solution will transfer out and into the hypotonic solution until equilibrium is achieved. What this means is simply that when one drinks hypotonic water, the minerals in the blood and lymphatic system, which are hypertonic, transfer into the hypotonic RO or distilled water that is consumed and the minerals are flushed out of the body upon urination.

In an effort to re-mineralize, the blood and lymphatic systems then begin to scavenge for minerals from other parts of the body, such as bones and other organs, and this process repeats itself every time de-mineralized hypotonic water is re-consumed. Several studies suggest that people who drink de-mineralized water (hypotonic) over a long period of time tend to be more prone to degenerative diseases such as osteoporosis.

Berkey purification systems do not remove the beneficial minerals from the water but they do extract harmful heavy metals such as lead and mercury as well as sedimentary minerals such as iron oxide. Therefore, the TDS (total dissolved solids) reading will not typically change much unless there are a lot of heavy metals or sedimentary minerals in the source water.

With respect to maintenance, how does reverse osmosis, distillation and Berkey purifier systems compare?

All Berkey models are easy to disassemble and clean. The lower chamber should be cleaned by hand in dishwater once a month. The Black Berkey elements may need to be cleaned typically after 6-12 months of use.

Distillation systems remove minerals from the drinking water. These minerals build up on the surface of the container and need to be soaked and cleaned with a 50/50 vinegar solution to remove the scale.

Reverse osmosis systems can have up to four filter elements, with each needing to be changed at differing intervals from four months up to two years. This requires that the water pressure be shut off and part or all of the system to be disassembled for maintenance. Additionally, the bladder tank should be washed with a chlorine solution at six-month intervals to kill any colonizing bacteria.

What is the pathological removal capability of a reverse osmosis system vs. the Berkeys?

Reverse Osmosis does not remove pathogenic bacteria and that is why it is often necessary to add an additional UV light to the system. However, the UV sometimes does not kill all the bacteria because any turbidity in the water can create shaded spots preventing some bacteria from being exposed. Typically, the UV is installed before the bladder tank, however, it is in the bladder tank that bacteria usually colonize. Therefore, if the bladder tank is not sterilized on a regular basis, it becomes a source for bacteriological contamination that is never exposed to UV. Additionally, the carcasses of the dead bacteria remain within the drinking water with an RO system whereas they are removed by the Black Berkey filters.

With respect to cost, how does reverse osmosis, distillation and Berkey systems compare?

With respect to upfront cost, RO systems typically are the most expensive due to the cost of the system and the additional expense to have the system plumbed in. Next in cost would be a distillation unit. A Berkey system will typically be the least expensive of the three.

With respect to cost per gallon of water, calculated upon the cost per gallon for replacement filters and energy costs, distillation systems and RO systems properly maintained typically cost between 35-65 cents per gallon. A Berkey system typically costs about 1.6 cents per gallon.

[Connecting with Sauce]

Drink distilled water. Andrew Norton Webber and Lisa Harrison do a good discussion on it in YouTube.

Distilled water is lacking both structure (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-T7tCMUDXU) and minerals.

I distill my own drinking water, as the last of several stages to remove the "crap" from it (typical municipal water supply.)

But then I attempt to restore it with

Himalayan or Real (http://realsalt.com/) salt
3 parts Potassium bicarbonate (from nuts.com) to 1 part Sodium bicarbonate (aka Baking Soda)
Magnesium bicarbonate (here's the trick (http://www.gwens-nest.com/natural-remedies/magnesium-supplements-a-great-diy-recipe/) to making it.)
Willard water (http://drwillard.com/) (especially for the sulfates)
A splash of lemon juice

I'm still on the look out for a good way to get it flowing as a vortex in a magnetic field, once the above are added.

All of those are inorganic salts (apart from a splash of fresh lemon) which aren't too easily processed by the body.

Andrew Norton Webber discusses this and there is a lot of research on his website.
_msWtSljFQw

If you are going to consume a small amount of salt it would be best to be sun dried celtic sea salt.

Best to drink distilled water (and structure it, I use a living water vortex jug + crystals+Slim Spurling rings) and fresh juices and do regular urine therapy _ see the Taking the Piss Your Own Perfect Medicine (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1793-Taking-the-piss-Your-own-best-medicine...) thread on here (loads of information on this healing modality).

[ThePythonicCow]

All of those are inorganic salts (apart from a splash of fresh lemon) which aren't too easily processed by the body.
...
If you are going to consume a small amount of salt it would be best to be sun dried celtic sea salt.

Best to drink distilled water (and structure it, I use a living water vortex jug + crystals+Slim Spurling rings) and ...

The bicarbonate salts (sodium, potassium and magnesium) are readily absorbed by the body, and are important to maintaining what's currently called a more "alkaline" aka higher pH body, meaning more conductive ions in solution, supporting a higher voltage across the cell wall.

As for celtic sea salt vs Himalayan (or what's quite similar, RealSalt from Utah), they are quite similar. The Celtic sea salts have a higher risk of pollutants, being extracted from recent sea water.

I also suspect that distilled water won't structure easily; that some conductive ions are required to restore any healthy structure to it. Perhaps one of the living water vortex jug, crystals, or Slim Spurling rings adds minerals to the water? I don't know what these are, other than a general idea what a crystal is, and don't know how you're using them (is the crystal in contact with the water, for example, so that it might remineralize it?)

The healthy spring waters that are known for their healing properties from various deep wells around the world -do- have substantial mineral content, in the form of various ions that are easily processed and (in my view) actually essential to good health.

[ThePythonicCow]

Andrew Norton Webber discusses this and there is a lot of research on his website.
I'm just now looking at Andrew Norton Webber's material, such as here (http://whale.to/a/distilled_water1.html).

His statements that the water in the body and in plants, and that rain water, is distilled are misleading, in my view. Such water was once distilled water, it is not still pure distilled water.

For example, rain water went through a distillation process, when it was evaporated into the air.

But it won't show up as zero (0) parts per million using a dissolved solids meter, because it has reabsorbed various minerals and ions, in the process of raining and becoming running surface and perhaps later underground water.

Similarly, in the body and in plants, dissolved mineral ions are essential for life. For example basic cell health depends on maintaining a large excessof Na+ outside the cell and a large excess of K+ ions on the inside (see here (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/biology/nakpump.html)). The voltage drop across the cell wall is a key attribute of health.

I recommend these books: Healing is Voltage: The Handbook, 3rd Edition by Jerry L. Tennant (http://amzn.com/1453649166)
The Fourth Phase of Water: Beyond Solid, Liquid, and Vapor by Gerald H. Pollack (http://amzn.com/0962689548)

The essential steps to good water are

remove the crud, such as by distilling, then
restore the essentials, including mineral ions in easily absorbed forms and structure.

[Revere]

Does anyone know of "good" (affective, health etc.) solutions that can be added to RO water to increase its health benefits. I used one a while back but it worked as a laxative as well. Any ideas or information that is quick and simple to add? That works!

Revere

[ThePythonicCow]

All of those are inorganic salts (apart from a splash of fresh lemon) which aren't too easily processed by the body.
Minerals, such as sodium, potassium, calcium, magnesium, and sulfur, come in various salts and ionic forms. Such minerals are essential for life, in both plants and animals. What matters is whether they are in a water soluble form. Many of the minerals in ground up rock are not very soluble in water, so will pass through the gut unabsorbed.

There are desired ranges of input for each mineral (and other nutrient.) Too much or too little will kill you. Salt (sodium-chloride) is essential to life, but drinking just sea water will kill you. The body maintains stores of the major essential minerals and will add to, or extract from, these stores in order to maintain the essential mineral balances in the body fluids. Distilled water isn't deadly, if you have other sources of the essential minerals. Though distilled water has had its structure destroyed, so is more difficult for the kidneys (the main fluid processor in the body) to process.

Three common problems that "modern day" people face:

Our municipal water and store bought liquids are filled with crap - various toxins, chlorine and fluorine compounds, and so forth. Distillation is valuable for removing most of these compounds (except for the volatile organics.)
Our most common sources of food are becoming deficient in many minerals, due to modern agriculture practices.
Some minerals are especially hard to get in sufficient quantity, such as for example magnesium, as many of its common salts are not very soluble.

Notice that I specified in the minerals that I restore to my distilled water the bicarbonate forms of sodium, potassium and magnesium. Notice that word "bicarbonate". That means it has "carbon" in it, the chemists essential determining property of an organic compound.

Sodium, potassium and magnesium bicarbonates are organic, in the meaning that a chemist would use. They have carbon atoms in their molecules.

Magnesium bicarbonate is particularly interesting here, in that it is one of the few water soluble forms of magnesium. Most magnesium salts don't dissolve very well in water, so are not absorbed from the gut. Magnesium deficiencies are common in modern society. In fact, magnesium bicarbonate only exists in solution, not in dry salt form.

[ThePythonicCow]

Does anyone know of "good" (affective, health etc.) solutions that can be added to RO water to increase its health benefits. I used one a while back but it worked as a laxative as well. Any ideas or information that is quick and simple to add? That works!

Revere

Back before I got my counter top distiller, I was drinking reverse osmosis (RO) water, and adding to it pretty much the same things that I add to my distilled water now, as I listed in Post #23 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66814-Reverse-osmosis-filter-for-removing-fluoride-and-other-chemicals&p=822098&viewfull=1#post822098), above.

[RunningDeer]

I purchased the gravity fed Travel Berkey Water Filter a couple of months back after drinking distilled water for about 18 months. I got a back up set of filters including the fluoride ones for the larger version even though I have an artesian well. I also have a couple of the sports size with a bunch of back up filters. Way back when, I stocked up on boat load of brita filters. So I filter the water before I use the Berkey system.

For my drinking water, I add 3/4 t of Himalayan salt and 1/2 organic lemon to 64 oz of H2O, which not only supplies 80+ minerals and elements, but it also makes the water alkaline.

[RunningDeer]

Some of my note on Himalayan Salt:

10 Amazing Benefits of Pink (Himalayan) Salt (http://fitlife.tv/10-amazing-benefits-of-pink-himalayan-salt/)

Why Pink? 

The many hues of pink, red and white are an indication of this salt’s rich and varying mineral and energy-rich iron content.

Benefits

In the same manner that vitamins and minerals are perfectly packaged in fruits and vegetables, because this salt was formed naturally the minerals within the sodium work in synergy.

(Synergy is the interaction of multiple elements in a system to produce an effect different from or greater than the sum of their individual effects.)

Iodine- Natural salts are rich in iodine, so it doesn’t need to be artificially added in.

Packs a hearty 80+ minerals and elements - Himalayan salts are mineral packed crystals which formed naturally within the earth made up of 85.62% sodium chloride and 14.38% other trace minerals including: sulphate, magnesium, calcium, potassium, bicarbonate, bromide, borate, strontium, and fluoride (in descending order of quantity).

Because of these minerals Himalayan pink salt can:

Create an electrolyte balance
Increases hydration
Regulate water content both inside and outside of cells
Balance pH (alkaline/acidity) and help to reduce acid reflux
Prevent muscle cramping
Aid in proper metabolism functioning
Strengthen bones
Lower blood pressure
Help the intestines absorb nutrients
Prevent goiters
Improve circulation
Dissolve and eliminate sediment to remove toxins


It is even said to support libido, reduce the signs of aging, and detoxify the body from heavy metals.

Pink Salt vs. Sea Salt

Even though pink salts come from the mountains, they are technically sea salts as well. All salt comes from a salted body of water—namely, an ocean or salt-water lake. However, Himalayan salt is said to be the purest form of sea salt.

Why Table Salt is Inferior

Commercial refined salt is not only stripped of all its minerals, besides sodium and chloride, but is also chemically cleaned, bleached and heated at unnecessary high temperatures.
In addition, it is treated with anti-caking agents which prevent salt from mixing with water in the salt container. These agents also prevent dissolving within our system leading to build up and then deposit in organs and tissue, causing severe health problems.

Finally, the iodine that is added into salt is usually synthetic which is difficult for your body to process properly. Shockingly under U.S. law, up to 2% of table salt can be additives.

[onawah]

I just got this email message, after sending an inquiry to this site:
http://www.berkeyfilters.com/berkey-...FRFnOgod3QQAtA
which came up first when I did a search for Berkey water filters.


We are the leading distributor of Berkey filters and as far as I know the filters have not been tested for the removal of sodium fluoride. There is a possibility that they remove sodium fluoride but there are no testes to prove it.

---
Regards,
Josh
Berkey Filters Customer Support
1-800-350-4170

What is being used now in most communities, as I understand it, is something that vendors (some of them in China) are calling "sodium fluoride" which is not the fluoride that occurs in Nature, but is a mixture of toxic byproducts from chemical manufacturing including arsenic and lead.
The companies that are selling this brew are not responding to water district's inquiries as to what is in the mixtures, but the tests they have seen show them to be full of toxins and very dangerous to handle, much less ingest.
Yet the state's officials continue to require these toxins be added to the water, even though they have been informed of these problems.
I was thinking about buying a Berkey once the mandate is actually put into effect locally, but I'm not sure now what I will do about dish and bath water.
I've been getting drinking water from friends who live in the country and have a good well.
I sure wish I could afford to move to the country!

[onawah]

A new message from customerservice@berkeyfilters.com:

I took the liberty of contacting the manufacturer concerning your question and they state that the PF2s do reduce all types of fluoride, including the Sodium Fluoride you are concerned about. I am including the information they provided at the end of this page.
Regards,
Rebecca

She sent me a pdf which I don't know how to copy, so I asked her to send the info as text in an email, which I will post here if she does so.

[onawah]

Here's what the pdf says:

PF-2/PF-4 Fluoride Reduction Media Information
(Extract from Proprietary Products Data Information Sheets)
PRODUCT INFORMATION:
The Proprietary Fluoride Reduction Media is a new and improved high yield aluminum oxide
especially formulated for the removal of Fluoride and arsenic from drinking water. This media
has an unusually high surface area of more than 350 sq.m./gram of material which allows
more efficient removal of the Fluoride and arsenic ions. This high surface area is enhanced
by controlled development of the pore size distribution from 30Angstroms to 100Angstroms,
providing greater accessibility to the surface active sites through bulk diffusion.
Uniform particle size low silica content and high purity, is characteristic of the new and
improved Proprietary Fluoride Reduction Media which insures effective operation in the
reduction of Fluoride. The extremely low silica content significantly reduces the tendency of
the silica to form silicone tetra fluoride which reacts with both the media and the pipes leading
to clogging and corrosion problems.
PRODUCT APPLICATION:
The Proprietary Fluoride Reduction Media is an EPA approved method for removing Fluoride
from drinking water. This product can be used in various filtration products and can also be
packed in large columns for high volume applications including drinking water treatment
plants and waste treatment plants. The Proprietary Fluoride Reduction Media can be used in
various applications where defluorination is necessary.
For maximum removal efficiency, maintain the water being treated between a PH level of 5-7.
The media can be regenerated for enhanced performance lifetime with many applications.
This makes the Proprietary Fluoride Reduction Media the most effective and economical
defluorination product on the market.
TYPICAL PHYSICAL PROPERTIES OF PROPRIETARY FLUORIDE REDUCTION MEDIA:
Surface Area, sq. m/g. 350
Total Pore volume, cc./g. .55
Aluminum Oxide XRD Phase Chi, Gamma, Amorphous
Crush Strength, lbs (kg) 30 (14)
Abrasion Loss wt% 0.1
Bulk Density, lbs/cu. ft (kg/cu. m) 47 (750)
TYPICAL CHEMICAL PROPERTIES OF PROPRIETARY FLUORIDE REDUCTION MEDIA:
Wt %
AL2O3 95.1
SiO2 0.02
Fe2O3 0.02
Na2O 0.30

GENERAL INFORMATION:
The Proprietary Fluoride Reduction Media has been specially prepared to optimize the media
for more efficient removal of the Fluoride ion. Testing of the material is important for each
application as influent water PH, quality and purify of the water and various metal ion
concentrations are all variables which influence the effectiveness of the media. Note that the
material is most efficient between a PH of 5 and 7 with PH=5 preferred.
Testing for fluoride removal was based on 20-30 ppm of the ion in the influent aqueous
solution at a flow rate of no more than 3 gpm per cubic foot (25kg) of media. Results of < 1
ppm of the fluoride ion in the effluent were typical for the media. Under optimum conditions,
effluent concentrations of less than 50 ppb of Fluoride ion were found to be readily achieved.
Results may vary significantly with each particular application.
OTHER INFORMATION:
1. Calcium & Sodium Fluoride. The Proprietary Fluoride Reduction Media will remove any
types of inorganic fluoride salts. All fluoride salts are soluble in water. So it does not matter
what fluoride salts that are in the water, fluoride is present as an anion where the media will
absorb fluoride ions in water.
2. Hydro-Fluorosilicic Acid (HFS). We do not have any test data to show how efficient the
Proprietary Fluoride Reduction Media will remove hydro-fluosilicic acid. But by adsorption of
fluoride anion using alumina, we believe the media will remove hydro-fluosilicic acid better
than fluoride. The reason is both compounds are ions with negative charges. The molecular
size of hydrofluosilicic acid is much larger than the fluoride ion and hydrofluosilicic acid has
two negative charges where as fluoride has only one negative charge. So this negative
charge makes hydrofluosislicic acid much easier to adsorb to the media compared to regular
fluoride ions.
3. NMCL obtains its Proprietary Fluoride Reduction Media from a third party that
manufactures specialized media that targets difficult to remove contaminates, such as
Fluoride and Arsenic. The above information provided has been extracted from the supplier’s
data sheets and other written communications

[Lancelot]

Drink distilled water. Andrew Norton Webber and Lisa Harrison do a good discussion on it in YouTube.

Distilled water is lacking both structure (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-T7tCMUDXU) and minerals.

I distill my own drinking water, as the last of several stages to remove the "crap" from it (typical municipal water supply.)

But then I attempt to restore it with

Himalayan or Real (http://realsalt.com/) salt
3 parts Potassium bicarbonate (from nuts.com) to 1 part Sodium bicarbonate (aka Baking Soda)
Magnesium bicarbonate (here's the trick (http://www.gwens-nest.com/natural-remedies/magnesium-supplements-a-great-diy-recipe/) to making it.)
Willard water (http://drwillard.com/) (especially for the sulfates)
A splash of lemon juice

I'm still on the look out for a good way to get it flowing as a vortex in a magnetic field, once the above are added.

I got hold of a cheap science toy vortex machine. Its a plastic tube which holds about a litre of water with an offset spinner in the bottom which when plugged in creates a vortex in the whole of the tube. It also has some led lights which change colour! Strap a magnet to the side and hey presto!