BP Says Peak Oil Is Here

[feltip]

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/dec/23/british-petroleum-geologist-peak-oil-break-economy-recession

[Bob]

Interesting a FORMER BP geologist says data which industry is saying the opposite at this current time (late Dec 2013)


http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/dec/23/british-petroleum-geologist-peak-oil-break-economy-recession

earlier back in September, Industry news published this:

"World hydrocarbon supply ‘relatively boundless'. Reported today in the Industry trade Journal Oil and Gas by the Editor and Chief of the journal,

"Geophysical advances have contributed to the identification of a "relatively boundless supply" of oil and gas worldwide, Barry Smitherman, chairman, Texas Railroad Commission (RRC), told the Society of Exploration Geophysicists annual meeting Sept. 23".

Texas Railroad Commission is pretty conservative, and quite a sticker for giving the Majors as much of a break as they can. Smaller local operators and explorers are not favored in Texas. One would have to assume that editor Alan Petzet found Mr. Smitherman's statements most revealing."

the OP for this is here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?63677-Hydrocarbon-supply---relatively-boundless-no-peak-oil--&p=734219&viewfull=1#post734219

tnx for finding what you found :)

[DeDukshyn]

I am not 100% sure of this, but what I have been hearing is that most of this "boundless" hydrocarbons is in the form of NG and not crude, and that most of it is in the arctic. In other words, Russia likely has the majority of it.

Perhaps access is considered a huge roadblock by some?


A motivation for claiming hydrocarbon energy is boundless, is to stop people from pressuring the powers for properly renewable sources of energy?

Because, yes, we have been hearing both statements as "facts" - that makes me figure that motivation exceeds reality in at least one of those cases, likely both, and the truth may not even be known.

My 2 cents ;)

[feltip]

here's the thing - in my mind

let's just say that the free energy fairy stopped by our blue planet - waved some pixy dust around and wala...FREE ENERGY for everyone all the time.

now let's play "pick a number"

anything over ...say 7.3 billion ...as the number of humans that can co-exist with every other species on the planet "sustainably"? what would that number be?

100 billion

500 billion

100 trillion

a google?

then answer this question...

when that number is reached...

what's the plan?

[Bob]

Israel though is excited that they have a massive natural gas find. They don't seem to think there is a peak oil situation.
ref: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/11/israel-drill-oil-west-bank-201311114571416794.html
( one well has penetrated what appears to be exploitable reserves of as much as 3.53 billion barrels - about a seventh of Qatar's proven oil reserves. )

Depending on the depths drilled, and the contamination from water into the reservoirs (letting in bacteria for instance), the oil doesn't have to be degraded to gas.. but in some places gas is what is found.. Investors generally prefer oil to gas because of the price differential..

Each of these different zones have different types of production based on the eon (period in history) where the formation were made..

There is a lot of oil in Alaska not being exploited, hardly filling the pipeline and it shouldn't be being manipulated; potentially there is a lot of gas in Russia's part of the Arctic, and folks are going back up there to get to the hydrocarbons.. And there are natural gas "liquids", very light weight oils.. present with gas wells. It's extraordinarily profitable if you have a way to find it easily.

A lot of exploration and development is in what is called a "tight shale formation" - that is where fracking is needed to loosen up the rock to let the oil be coaxed out.. When they say "unconventional" resources, they are saying "tight shales requiring fracking".. one can find gas or oil or water in those tight shale, and they may have tight sandstones, or loose porous sandstones..

I have seen new discoveries in the Gulf of Mexico, Alaska, off Africa, off Kazakhstan, off India, off South America, there are no shortages in the source material (crude, natural gas, and Natural Gas Liquids (NGL's) - where reservoirs seem to be low are some of the existing production regions which no doubt is what leads to the price/shortage of commodities. Where there are shortages is in the distribution chain (from crude --> refiner --> sales to consumers).. The current rail train explosion in the ND region Casselton, could be a prelude to folks again saying "peak oil" is here, or let in speculation that oil will be come scarce again.

Holding up production and distribution for whatever reason creates an artificial "peak oil claim scenario".

BP for instance has 9 drilling rigs going full bore, with absolutely fantastic discoveries in the Gulf of Mexico -
(see forum thread: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66645-BP-who-brought-us-the-Gulf-Disaster-is-at-it-again--in-the-Gulf-&p=774455&viewfull=1#post774455 )

I don't believe there is a shortage in the material itself, in the earth - the shortage would appear to be a manipulation to drive prices up.

(see Abiogenic oil production (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin) - this says oil is a RENEWABLE resource, very speculative, but Russian research seems to say, at deep depths this can happen with the right gases and catalysts and water and temperature, that would be a very "clean" oil in essence a type of liquid long chain hydrogen-carbon molecules.. that being the case there is no way, we would ever run out of oil or gas production, or NGL's -- it just won't happen.)

[DeDukshyn]

here's the thing - in my mind

let's just say that the free energy fairy stopped by our blue planet - waved some pixy dust around and wala...FREE ENERGY for everyone all the time.

now let's play "pick a number"

anything over ...say 7.3 billion ...as the number of humans that can co-exist with every other species on the planet "sustainably"? what would that number be?

100 billion

500 billion

100 trillion

a google?

then answer this question...

when that number is reached...

what's the plan?

Who's to say when our collective consciousness has matured, and we had the "right" mind and strength of self to have free energy systems implemented on earth, that along with that shift in consciousness doesn't come an innate natural ability for self control of populations? It is merely an age old religious concept of "go forth and multiply" in order to secure a future for religious profits and control, because we all know the best way to recruit fro religions is to have people born into them ;)

I am certain this age old hypnotic collective programming of "go forth and multiply" will fall to the wayside once our collective consciousness has matured enough to finally realize free energy for all on earth; after all, we all know the "free energy fairy" won't be coming to "fix" **** for us. ;)

[DeDukshyn]

Israel though is excited that they have a massive natural gas find. They don't seem to think there is a peak oil situation.
ref: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/11/israel-drill-oil-west-bank-201311114571416794.html
( one well has penetrated what appears to be exploitable reserves of as much as 3.53 billion barrels - about a seventh of Qatar's proven oil reserves. )

Depending on the depths drilled, and the contamination from water into the reservoirs (letting in bacteria for instance), the oil doesn't have to be degraded to gas.. but in some places gas is what is found.. Investors generally prefer oil to gas because of the price differential..

Each of these different zones have different types of production based on the eon (period in history) where the formation were made..

There is a lot of oil in Alaska not being exploited, hardly filling the pipeline and it shouldn't be being manipulated; potentially there is a lot of gas in Russia's part of the Arctic, and folks are going back up there to get to the hydrocarbons.. And there are natural gas "liquids", very light weight oils.. present with gas wells. It's extraordinarily profitable if you have a way to find it easily.

A lot of exploration and development is in what is called a "tight shale formation" - that is where fracking is needed to loosen up the rock to let the oil be coaxed out.. When they say "unconventional" resources, they are saying "tight shales requiring fracking".. one can find gas or oil or water in those tight shale, and they may have tight sandstones, or loose porous sandstones..

I have seen new discoveries in the Gulf of Mexico, Alaska, off Africa, off Kazakhstan, off India, off South America, there are no shortages in the source material (crude, natural gas, and Natural Gas Liquids (NGL's) - where reservoirs seem to be low are some of the existing production regions which no doubt is what leads to the price/shortage of commodities. Where there are shortages is in the distribution chain (from crude --> refiner --> sales to consumers).. The current rail train explosion in the ND region Casselton, could be a prelude to folks again saying "peak oil" is here, or let in speculation that oil will be come scarce again.

Holding up production and distribution for whatever reason creates an artificial "peak oil claim scenario".

BP for instance has 9 drilling rigs going full bore, with absolutely fantastic discoveries in the Gulf of Mexico -
(see forum thread: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66645-BP-who-brought-us-the-Gulf-Disaster-is-at-it-again--in-the-Gulf-&p=774455&viewfull=1#post774455 )

I don't believe there is a shortage in the material itself, in the earth - the shortage would appear to be a manipulation to drive prices up.

(see Abiogenic oil production (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin) - this says oil is a RENEWABLE resource, very speculative, but Russian research seems to say, at deep depths this can happen with the right gases and catalysts and water and temperature, that would be a very "clean" oil in essence a type of liquid long chain hydrogen-carbon molecules.. that being the case there is no way, we would ever run out of oil or gas production, or NGL's -- it just won't happen.)

To me supply is a completely moot point. Can we get this oil out of the earth without "destroying" the earth and a quarter of it's life? Or possibly without deteriorating the quality of life of humans en mass?

I don't care how much of this crap is in the earth, if humans suffer or have to pay to get it, so that powerful evil men become more powerful and evil, and in a way that is not sustainable, who cares how much there is? By the time the argument is finished, another 100 quadrillion dollars will be given to already far too powerful entities, and another 159 species will be displaced or extinct, and humans will have little quality drinking water in the modernized world.

Just another perspective ;)

[feltip]

here's the thing - in my mind

let's just say that the free energy fairy stopped by our blue planet - waved some pixy dust around and wala...FREE ENERGY for everyone all the time.

now let's play "pick a number"

anything over ...say 7.3 billion ...as the number of humans that can co-exist with every other species on the planet "sustainably"? what would that number be?

100 billion

500 billion

100 trillion

a google?

then answer this question...

when that number is reached...

what's the plan?

Who's to say when our collective consciousness has matured, and we had the "right" mind and strength of self to have free energy systems implemented on earth, that along with that shift in consciousness doesn't come an innate natural ability for self control of populations? It is merely an age old religious concept of "go forth and multiply" in order to secure a future for religious profits and control, because we all know the best way to recruit fro religions is to have people born into them ;)

I am certain this age old hypnotic collective programming of "go forth and multiply" will fall to the wayside once our collective consciousness has matured enough to finally realize free energy for all on earth; after all, we all know the "free energy fairy" won't be coming to "fix" **** for us. ;)

not saying it won't happen, but selfies, "likes" and "views" are all that matters to a lot of people today using most of the resources.

unfortunately - I think a killoff is ordained.

we think we are so clever yet can't seem to get out of our own way.

not being pessimistic ... just trying to be real.

I am also sure this same scenario has played out on countless earth's in countless universes.

the greys must look at us and say, "here we go again".

[DeDukshyn]

In you attempt to be real, you are being pessimistic ;)

Let me say again, it is a programmed religious notion that is leading our direction into overpopulation (we have some time yet), and that is falling to the wayside already. You see, there is only change and only process. Even a rock changes in it's life cycle -- it is all that is happening. nothing that is not changing is happening. see?

My grandmother had 13 children, her mom had 12, I have three, but if I could do it over I would have zero. See the change already?

That said, there is still much work to be done in raising awareness and consciousness to a at least a community, then to a national, then to a global level again, where each person feels an innate responsibility for his / her actions. It will happen.

Let's look at worst case. There is a killoff, and we learn from our mistakes, and then we get to the point of global responsibility after learning what not being globally responsible has caused.

It's a self correcting system. Although there are all degrees of "difficulty" in the potential, it is just degrees of difficulty within an inevitability.

My 2 cents ;)

[Bob]

[...]
To me supply is a completely moot point. Can we get this oil out of the earth without "destroying" the earth and a quarter of it's life?

Or possibly without deteriorating the quality of life of humans en mass?

I don't care how much of this crap is in the earth, if humans suffer or have to pay to get it, so that powerful evil men become more powerful and evil, and in a way that is not sustainable, who cares how much there is?

By the time the argument is finished, another 100 quadrillion dollars will be given to already far too powerful entities, and another 159 species will be displaced or extinct, and humans will have little quality drinking water in the modernized world.

Just another perspective ;)

Its a perfect perspective to point out why the old burn oil like in an oil lamp, or burn oil (or gas) in a flaring system sending the majority of the pollutants into the atmosphere which is killing everyone by said production methods.. or burning it (exploding it in a diesel or gasoline or turbine engine)..

Absolutely gross money grubbing hell mindset exploit all for power, no question..

However, there is data that say, 100% completely zero emission fuel cells exist that only produce electricity, sometimes some water if that is the design used, or zero emission, totally nada, no nano-particles, no carbon dioxide, no smog, no carbon monoxide - the only thing that comes out is ELECTRICITY which can be used to run pure electric vehicles, charging up plastic capacitors (energy storage synthetic batteries) - no LEAD metal in the process..

BUT that is being with-held from the people..

These types of fuel cells RUN on the hydrocarbons, either natural gas OR refined oils.

The use of the hydrocarbon for the FUEL CELL, is because the [link of the oxygen hydrogen and carbon] in the liquid or gas fuel provides, in a very small convenient transportable method, immense energy that can be converted to pure electricity - safely cleanly with zero emission...

The shortage manipulation system wants status quo, SNAFU, completely to dominate commerce.. that puts in crazy insane bux in a few select pockets at the expense of the world's people.

This forum for instance could easily be developed to open source such fuel cell designs. It's cleaner than nuclear and uses an existing infrastructure.

[feltip]

[...]
To me supply is a completely moot point. Can we get this oil out of the earth without "destroying" the earth and a quarter of it's life?

Or possibly without deteriorating the quality of life of humans en mass?

I don't care how much of this crap is in the earth, if humans suffer or have to pay to get it, so that powerful evil men become more powerful and evil, and in a way that is not sustainable, who cares how much there is?

By the time the argument is finished, another 100 quadrillion dollars will be given to already far too powerful entities, and another 159 species will be displaced or extinct, and humans will have little quality drinking water in the modernized world.

Just another perspective ;)

Its a perfect perspective to point out why the old burn oil like in an oil lamp, or burn oil (or gas) in a flaring system sending the majority of the pollutants into the atmosphere which is killing everyone by said production methods.. or burning it (exploding it in a diesel or gasoline or turbine engine)..

Absolutely gross money grubbing hell mindset exploit all for power, no question..

However, there is data that say, 100% completely zero emission fuel cells exist that only produce electricity, sometimes some water if that is the design used, or zero emission, totally nada, no nano-particles, no carbon dioxide, no smog, no carbon monoxide - the only thing that comes out is ELECTRICITY which can be used to run pure electric vehicles, charging up plastic capacitors (energy storage synthetic batteries) - no LEAD metal in the process..

BUT that is being with-held from the people..

These types of fuel cells RUN on the hydrocarbons, either natural gas OR refined oils.

The use of the hydrocarbon for the FUEL CELL, is because the [link of the oxygen hydrogen and carbon] in the liquid or gas fuel provides, in a very small convenient transportable method, immense energy that can be converted to pure electricity - safely cleanly with zero emission...

The shortage manipulation system wants status quo, SNAFU, completely to dominate commerce.. that puts in crazy insane bux in a few select pockets at the expense of the world's people.

This forum for instance could easily be developed to open source such fuel cell designs. It's cleaner than nuclear and uses an existing infrastructure.

it takes 200 barrels of oil to make a prius

our entire "sustainable" fuel cell vision would necessarily be supported by coal, oil and nat gas.

[DeDukshyn]

...

However, there is data that say, 100% completely zero emission fuel cells exist that only produce electricity, sometimes some water if that is the design used, or zero emission, totally nada, no nano-particles, no carbon dioxide, no smog, no carbon monoxide - the only thing that comes out is ELECTRICITY which can be used to run pure electric vehicles, charging up plastic capacitors (energy storage synthetic batteries) - no LEAD metal in the process..

BUT that is being with-held from the people..

These types of fuel cells RUN on the hydrocarbons, either natural gas OR refined oils.

The use of the hydrocarbon for the FUEL CELL, is because the [link of the oxygen hydrogen and carbon] in the liquid or gas fuel provides, in a very small convenient transportable method, immense energy that can be converted to pure electricity - safely cleanly with zero emission...
.


Bobd,

Do you have any links or sources that can explain the process of converting hydrocarbons to electricity with zero emissions? That sounds interesting.

However, as long as "Big oil" is the provider of the input, there will be no "free" energy. Big energy cares only about three things 1) profit 2) gouging 3) more profit at any cost to the consumer.

[feltip]

In you attempt to be real, you are being pessimistic ;)

Let me say again, it is a programmed religious notion that is leading our direction into overpopulation (we have some time yet), and that is falling to the wayside already. You see, there is only change and only process. Even a rock changes in it's life cycle -- it is all that is happening. nothing that is not changing is happening. see?

My grandmother had 13 children, her mom had 12, I have three, but if I could do it over I would have zero. See the change already?

That said, there is still much work to be done in raising awareness and consciousness to a at least a community, then to a national, then to a global level again, where each person feels an innate responsibility for his / her actions. It will happen.

Let's look at worst case. There is a killoff, and we learn from our mistakes, and then we get to the point of global responsibility after learning what not being globally responsible has caused.

It's a self correcting system. Although there are all degrees of "difficulty" in the potential, it is just degrees of difficulty within an inevitability.

My 2 cents ;)

well - again - what's the plan?

whomever erected the Georgia guidestones had a plan - and part of that is 500M people.

could you tell me where William Catton in his book "Overshoot" (1986) is wrong if you have read it?

all biological species hit overshoot at some point...phantom acres go away...resource bases are exhausted and a dieoff ensues...not pessimistic, but scientific fact.

in the real world - under the current paradigm - not under the unfounded illusion of any awakening of any import...the hand has been dealt and we are in fact in overshoot and have been for likely 150 years.

we drank the wine (oil) from someone elses' bottle - now comes the hang over.

[DeDukshyn]

In you attempt to be real, you are being pessimistic ;)

Let me say again, it is a programmed religious notion that is leading our direction into overpopulation (we have some time yet), and that is falling to the wayside already. You see, there is only change and only process. Even a rock changes in it's life cycle -- it is all that is happening. nothing that is not changing is happening. see?

My grandmother had 13 children, her mom had 12, I have three, but if I could do it over I would have zero. See the change already?

That said, there is still much work to be done in raising awareness and consciousness to a at least a community, then to a national, then to a global level again, where each person feels an innate responsibility for his / her actions. It will happen.

Let's look at worst case. There is a killoff, and we learn from our mistakes, and then we get to the point of global responsibility after learning what not being globally responsible has caused.

It's a self correcting system. Although there are all degrees of "difficulty" in the potential, it is just degrees of difficulty within an inevitability.

My 2 cents ;)

well - again - what's the plan?

whomever erected the Georgia guidestones had a plan - and part of that is 500M people.

could you tell me where William Catton in his book "Overshoot" (1986) is wrong if you have read it?

all biological species hit overshoot at some point...phantom acres go away...resource bases are exhausted and a dieoff ensues...not pessimistic, but scientific fact.

in the real world - under the current paradigm - not under the unfounded illusion of any awakening of any import...the hand has been dealt and we are in fact in overshoot and have been for likely 150 years.

we drank the wine (oil) from someone elses' bottle - now comes the hang over.

Actually natural die-offs very rarely occur naturally in nature, however, rebalancing is constant. ;) Just think about this for a moment. The psychological shift in humanity is already occurring - the "plan" is underway.

I was into all this stuff 15 years ago - much of the conspiracies I believed in then have come to be very true indeed. Yet at that time, I could not talk to anyone about such things. I was a "looney", a "pipe dreamer", a "conspiracy nut" (even though the conspiracies I believed in were solid with lots of evidence) - the very first thing to happen when trying to bring awareness to these issues was instant rejection without consideration.

These days, I can sit down next to stranger in the food court of the mall and have a very thorough and detailed conversation on most of these topics we discuss here, and incredibly, I find myself a little "behind". Most generation Y-ers have a good grasp on what is happeing and are free to discuss it with you - not the case 15 years ago. A shift has occurred already.

The book you mentioned, do you think the author wrote it to tell everyone we are screwed? I am certain his aim was to contribute to this shift ... no?

It is easy to see a dire situation in a snapshot of time, but in reality, none of us live our lives in a snapshot of time, each millisecond is a renewed snapshot, with a change incorporated, even if just a small one.

Another 2 cents ;)

[Bob]

I don't think big oil or big mining gives a rat's patootie when it comes to saving miners, saving the environment (doing proper plugging), or proper extraction, and refining.. I do think there are plenty of alternative groups who have been asking for a chance to get such cleaner ways to the people. I think the issue is, every one of them has used the "big oil profit motive" going for how much profit could be made with such an exploitation... there have been minimal philanthropic mindsets willing to donate their technologies, open source, but they exist.

It may be a threshold point where they (the groups with the clean tech) need to see that society wants it, I can't speculate on the vibe.. the tech exists to do it right and do it cleanly from discovery, mining, extraction, production, distribution, and final end user (an electric vehicle with zero emission) - and we don't have to burn up our drinking water in the old type of fuel cell (water run cars, etc.. requires pure drinking water to run, if salt water is used, such creates deadly chlorine gas as part of the electrolysis)

[feltip]

Actually natural die-offs very rarely occur naturally in nature, however, rebalancing is constant. ;) Just think about this for a moment. The psychological shift in humanity is already occurring - the "plan" is underway.

so you have read his book? and you disagree with him.


The book you mentioned, do you think the author wrote it to tell everyone we are screwed? I am certain his aim was to contribute to this shift ... no?

Another 2 cents ;)

oh - you havn't read his book

ok well - i don't think a grand awakening is in the cards...so i will agree to disagree with you.

:)

[DeDukshyn]

Actually natural die-offs very rarely occur naturally in nature, however, rebalancing is constant. ;) Just think about this for a moment. The psychological shift in humanity is already occurring - the "plan" is underway.

so you have read his book? and you disagree with him.


The book you mentioned, do you think the author wrote it to tell everyone we are screwed? I am certain his aim was to contribute to this shift ... no?

Another 2 cents ;)

oh - you havn't read his book

ok well - i don't think a grand awakening is in the cards...so i will agree to disagree with you.

:)

You put all you faith of speculations about the future into text of a single book? Yes, agree to disagree ... ;)

Edit:
Let me be more polite.

The catalyst to fix things (or at least "rebalance" them ;)) is raising the awareness of world issues -- real ones that is -- to the masses. In my experience of 15 years, this has happened more quickly than I can imagine; and will continue still for many years. Once awareness is raised, and global responsibility is felt at the individual level, new choices will become the norm, and after all it is the choices of the masses that drive everything. If this was not true, the media and brainwashing propaganda would be pointless and useless. Therefore the ball is in our court, and our Ace is the rising awareness and innate feeling of global responsibility in the individuals -- who control the direction of the planet.

In 15 years the shift I have seen has been enormous. The solution is already underway, but nothing changes over night and we all must remain vigilant until that critical mass is reached.

Is everything peachy? No - but you might believe that I am trying to say that yet I have mentioned that not anywhere. Are things progressing? Always.

[gripreaper]

You mean the BP that dumped corexit all through the gulf and destroyed the Atlantic hydrology, you mean that credible source? First off, who cares what BP says about anything, much less peak oil!

And the question is not whether we are at peak oil or not, but how did the oil and electric grids come about, and why has every competing technology been hijacked and put away in the closet? Because the oil and electric grids are about control, profit and slavery, not about resources and their amounts or lack thereof. The whole slavery paradigm thrives on scarcity, so the topic of "peak oil" feeds into those memes.

As long as we have a context of colonialism and imperialism of resources and a paradigm of scarcity and commerce based on debt, held in place by a few elite, lets not get distracted into their memes of scarcity thinking, and feed the beast of global imperialism and greed.

feltip, this being your first thread (the other one doesn't count as it was a joke) you might want to avail yourself of the dozens of threads already here on the topic of peak oil, and get up to speed on the conclusions which have been drawn, and then comment on that thread based on the entire debate. Why start another peak oil thread?

[feltip]

Actually natural die-offs very rarely occur naturally in nature, however, rebalancing is constant. ;) Just think about this for a moment. The psychological shift in humanity is already occurring - the "plan" is underway.

so you have read his book? and you disagree with him.


The book you mentioned, do you think the author wrote it to tell everyone we are screwed? I am certain his aim was to contribute to this shift ... no?

Another 2 cents ;)

oh - you havn't read his book

ok well - i don't think a grand awakening is in the cards...so i will agree to disagree with you.

:)

You put all you faith of speculations about the future into text of a single book? Yes, agree to disagree ... ;)

Edit:
Let me be more polite.

The catalyst to fix things (or at least "rebalance" them ;)) is raising the awareness of world issues -- real ones that is -- to the masses. In my experience of 15 years, this has happened more quickly than I can imagine; and will continue still for many years. Once awareness is raised, and global responsibility is felt at the individual level, new choices will become the norm, and after all it is the choices of the masses that drive everything. If this was not true, the media and brainwashing propaganda would be pointless and useless. Therefore the ball is in our court, and our Ace is the rising awareness and innate feeling of global responsibility in the individuals -- who control the direction of the planet.

In 15 years the shift I have seen has been enormous. The solution is already underway, but nothing changes over night and we all must remain vigilant until that critical mass is reached.

Is everything peachy? No - but you might believe that I am trying to say that yet I have mentioned that not anywhere. Are things progressing? Always.

lol - no not one book - i work in the oil and gas industry - i have spent 20 years (this year) working in all energy markets...solar, transmission lines, power plants, fracking, conventional sources, pipelines etc. I have been both the client and the consultant.

I read about this stuff every single day. really - it is my job.

what MSM tells us about supplies etc - flat out bold face lies.

i suggested catton on the off chance overshoot and "pick a number: and the energy fairy may be a good way to broach this topic on a new forum.

i have had countless conversations about overshoot and peak resources...i gave it up mostly last year (ish) i'll probably dive out of this thread soon - really very tiring for me to continue to carry this guide-on.

like i said earlier - i think selfies, "views" "likes" and LOL texts have become more important than food. our individual beliefs about stuff are largely unfounded. and so most of us want our cushy lifestyle to continue unabated as 3 billion more on the planet want the same quality of life...not gonna happen.

love and light are great concepts when the belly is full...but because we eat oil...and because oil is finite...there will be no awakening before we hit the wall of resource depletion at 500mph.

[DeDukshyn]

...there will be no awakening before we hit the wall of resource depletion at 500mph.

Ah, so you are now completely agreeing with my post #9? kill off or none, there will be rebalancing. ;)

And nobody cares about what you think about Love, that seemed a little like pointless comment to attempt to paint my stance as something it is not.
My world is not black and white. Any information about the "future" is not real, only after something occurs has it's realness been established, but in the constantly changing landscape of reality, "real" is nowhere near a constant - writing a potential for the future down into a book does not create a constant out of the changing landscape of reality.

You have a view, from you work and your books and whatever, and you are proposing a specific future is inevitable.

I have a view and my experiences, and the stuff I have read, etc, and I say that rebalancing will occur because that type of "change" is ubiquitous to our reality and requires no assumptions.

I think we each have said all that can be said on our points of view. ;)

[Bob]

[...]
The catalyst to fix things (or at least "rebalance" them ;)) is raising the awareness of world issues -- real ones that is -- to the masses.

In my experience of 15 years, this has happened more quickly than I can imagine; and will continue still for many years.

Once awareness is raised, and global responsibility is felt at the individual level, new choices will become the norm, and after all it is the choices of the masses that drive everything.

If this was not true, the media and brainwashing propaganda would be pointless and useless.

Therefore the ball is in our court, and our Ace is the rising awareness and innate feeling of global responsibility in the individuals -- who control the direction of the planet.

In 15 years the shift I have seen has been enormous.

The solution is already underway, but nothing changes over night and we all must remain vigilant until that critical mass is reached.

Is everything peachy? No - but you might believe that I am trying to say that yet I have mentioned that not anywhere. Are things progressing? Always.

All I can say is BRAVO - BRILLIANT - identification step completed, next step is sharing, assisting and guiding, being kind in the process with each other, helping to get past the barriers of blocks self imposed or adopted.. thanks for that.. a new paradigm not of shortage manipulation..

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Someone around here should google "BP peacetime maritime disasters" :( they don't know ****

[Milneman]

...and once again, Atlas shrugged.

The world will go on...its just a matter of us deciding if we want to go on with it. Personally? I like the old aboriginal prophesy...that when the end of days does come, those who know how to love Grandmother Earth will go on with Her in peace.

[panopticon]

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/dec/23/british-petroleum-geologist-peak-oil-break-economy-recession

Thank you for pointing out the article Feltip.

-- Pan

[Snowflower]

I spent 10 years intensely involved in peak oil research and all of the various arguments for and against have been hashed and rehashed to infinity. It really comes down to one very simple reality.

There are no ships from elsewhere in the universe docking at the earth to replenish supplies.

[feltip]

I spent 10 years intensely involved in peak oil research and all of the various arguments for and against have been hashed and rehashed to infinity. It really comes down to one very simple reality.

There are no ships from elsewhere in the universe docking at the earth to replenish supplies.

bingo!!

the other big issue is the hard wiring of human to discount the future for immediate gain - we have what some call, the selfish gene.

i'd like there to be a happy chapter, but I just do not see it.

[TargeT]

I spent 10 years intensely involved in peak oil research and all of the various arguments for and against have been hashed and rehashed to infinity. It really comes down to one very simple reality.

There are no ships from elsewhere in the universe docking at the earth to replenish supplies.

This assumes the earth is a static, dead thing and that oil is a fixed commodity with no new oil being produced.

all of that is wrong, and has been shown to be wrong in many ways (especially relating to oil (http://www.rense.com/general63/refil.htm)). And to say there is nothing replenishing earth; well we are blasted every second with so much cosmic energy I'd say it's rather hard to think it does nothing (http://www.nbcnews.com/science/cosmic-rays-may-spark-earths-lightning-1C9841286). The earth is still very much a mystery & to think we can conclusively say very much about almost anything is a bit ridiculous.

this topic, like so many others, is vastly more complex than it seems.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

The earth is still very much a mystery & to think we can conclusively say very much about almost anything is a bit ridiculous.

Less then a bit, if I may so, the universe and it machinations and intelligence of all that is therein are so complex and interesting that what we know is like a fly turd on a blue whales back, theres a lot more whale to cover.

[GreenGuy]

Even if peak oil is here, and prices will now go through the clouds, the very fact that proven criminals and liars like BP are announcing it makes it very dubious without many supporting sources.

[feltip]

this topic, like so many others, is vastly more complex than it seems.

i think people make it more complex then it needs to be:

sphere=finite

uncontrolled population growth = overshoot/resource no longer can sustain biological species

overshoot = dieoff

this is science

the human population (at the expense of every other living species on the planet) is growing exponentially...resources (at the expense of other species) are linear - this includes oil.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqcHG7QUK9k

[feltip]

Even if peak oil is here, and prices will now go through the clouds, the very fact that proven criminals and liars like BP are announcing it makes it very dubious without many supporting sources.

lots of others have been ringing this bell:

Corps of Engineers in 2005 stated:


"The supply of oil will remain fairly stable in the very near term, but oil prices will steadily increase as world production approaches its peak. The doubling of oil prices in the past couple of years is not an anomaly, but a picture of the future. Peak oil is at hand with low availability growth for the next 5 to 10 years. Once worldwide petroleum production peaks, geopolitics and market economics will result in even more significant price increases and security risks. To guess where this is all going to take us is would be too speculative. Oil wars are certainly not out of the question. Disruption of world oil markets may also affect world natural gas markets as much of the natural gas reserves are collocated with the oil reserves."

http://tdmtalk.blogspot.com/2006/03/peak-oil-and-army-corp-of-engineers.html

[Bob]

this is 2014, not 2005, the UK article is posting data from 2006. The revelation from an industry leader has said in late 2013, NO PEAK OIL.. Peak oil was debunked at that point. Peak oil was used to hype oil prices UP, with perceived shortage, it's called commodity manipulation. The administration at that time was investigating wall street speculation on commodities - the creation of price fixing, artificial futures buying assuming price would go up... To create shortage, perceived shortage is manipulation for somebody's pocket. To post 2006 data as current is ludicrous. http://tdmtalk.blogspot.com/2006/03/...engineers.html that is what we are supposed to believe is current ----? 2006 peak, nonsense bahhh

[feltip]

this is 2014, not 2005, the UK article is posting data from 2006. The revelation from an industry leader has said in late 2013, NO PEAK OIL.. Peak oil was debunked at that point. Peak oil was used to hype oil prices UP, with perceived shortage, it's called commodity manipulation. The administration at that time was investigating wall street speculation on commodities - the creation of price fixing, artificial futures buying assuming price would go up... To create shortage, perceived shortage is manipulation for somebody's pocket. To post 2006 data as current is ludicrous. http://tdmtalk.blogspot.com/2006/03/...engineers.html that is what we are supposed to believe is current ----? 2006 peak, nonsense bahhh

i was merely suggesting the bell has been rung for a long time

i think there is a reason we are fracking...drilling deeper...oil grab wars

i also think the peaking of lots of resources is very much ordained when population growth is uncontrolled

for me - connecting the resource depletion dots with soul harvesting/dna munipulations makes sense.

i am not really about convincing anyone that infinite growth on a finite planet is pretty basic - just pointing out others have recognized this.

[feltip]

this is 2014, not 2005, the UK article is posting data from 2006. The revelation from an industry leader has said in late 2013, NO PEAK OIL.. Peak oil was debunked at that point. Peak oil was used to hype oil prices UP, with perceived shortage, it's called commodity manipulation. The administration at that time was investigating wall street speculation on commodities - the creation of price fixing, artificial futures buying assuming price would go up... To create shortage, perceived shortage is manipulation for somebody's pocket. To post 2006 data as current is ludicrous. http://tdmtalk.blogspot.com/2006/03/...engineers.html that is what we are supposed to believe is current ----? 2006 peak, nonsense bahhh

if you care for something a little more current (1/1/2014) that validates the last two article i posted- see here:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360544213009420

It examines the validity of model predictions published more than a decade ago as a function of three estimates of EUR. Please check out the red dot nation-by-nation validation in Appendix near end of article. Conclusion: Campbell and Laherrere win.


Abstract

Oil and related products continue to be prime enablers of the maintenance and growth of nearly all of the world's economies. The dramatic increase in the price of oil through mid-2008, along with the coincident (and possibly resultant) global recession, highlight our continued vulnerability to future limitations in the supply of cheap oil. The very large differences between the various estimates of the original volume of extractable conventional oil present on earth (EUR) have, at best, fostered uncertainty of the risk of future supply limitations among planners and policy makers, and at worse lulled the world into a false sense of security. In 2002 we modeled future oil production in 46 nation-units and the world by using a three-phase, Hubbert-based approach that produced trajectories dependent on settings for EUR (extractable ultimate resource), demand growth, percent of oil resource extracted at decline, and maximum allowable rates of production growth. We analyzed the sensitivity of the date of onset of decline for oil production to changes in each of these input parameters. In this current effort, we compare the last eleven years of empirical oil production data to our earlier forecast scenarios to evaluate which settings of EUR and other input parameters had created the most accurate projections. When combined with proper input settings, our model consistently generated trajectories for oil production that closely approximated the empirical data at both the national and the global level. In general, the lowest EUR scenarios were the most consistent with the empirical data at the global level and for most countries, while scenarios based on the mid and high EUR estimates overestimated production rates by wide margins globally. The global production of conventional oil began to decline in 2005, and has followed a path over the last 11 years very close to our scenarios assuming low estimates of EUR (1.9 Gbbl). Production in most nations is declining, with historical profiles generally consistent with Hubbert's premises. While new conventional oil discoveries and production starts are expected in the near term, the magnitudes necessary to increase our simulated production trajectories by even 1.0% per year over the next 10 years would represent a large departure from current trends. Our now well-validated simulations are at significant variance from many recent “predictions” of extensive future availability of conventional oil.

[Bob]

this is 2014, not 2005, the UK article is posting data from 2006. The revelation from an industry leader has said in late 2013, NO PEAK OIL.. Peak oil was debunked at that point. Peak oil was used to hype oil prices UP, with perceived shortage, it's called commodity manipulation. The administration at that time was investigating wall street speculation on commodities - the creation of price fixing, artificial futures buying assuming price would go up... To create shortage, perceived shortage is manipulation for somebody's pocket. To post 2006 data as current is ludicrous. http://tdmtalk.blogspot.com/2006/03/...engineers.html that is what we are supposed to believe is current ----? 2006 peak, nonsense bahhh

i was merely suggesting the bell has been rung for a long time

i think there is a reason we are fracking...drilling deeper...oil grab wars

i also think the peaking of lots of resources is very much ordained when population growth is uncontrolled

for me - connecting the resource depletion dots with soul harvesting/dna munipulations makes sense.

i am not really about convincing anyone that infinite growth on a finite planet is pretty basic - just pointing out others have recognized this.

I understand more what you are saying - PREVIOUSLY was rung a long time that bell.. need to be specific to help us all understand :) where one is coming from.. At times to develop a thought in a thread with insufficient starting data leads folks into going into very emotional responses..

The INDUSTRY though, they started to point out, PEAK oil ISN'T here now, not any more.... What a revelation !

BUT manipulation IS here now even more so, that is the problem, a few are manipulating a commodity, and raping the world over it.

That's the issue, it could be CORN or POTATOES or any other food for a perceived shortage.

Energy is dear to people's pocket book. It took a NICKEL change in prices during Hurricane Katrina to bankrupt many truckers who had to pass the cost on to consumers..

The world won't stop moving. And whatever can be derived from any source (at any expense as long as obscene profit can be made from it), industry will continue to "drill baby drill..."

FelTip, you mentioned being in the oil industry and are aware of what goes on, from the downside or upside end of that? As you know I use a lot of the industry technical words; that should give you an idea that I am no novice in this field and am very aware of the exploration, the technology, the fields, the depth of formation, production, enhancement techniques (fraking, liquid or gas), and all of the cutting edge improvements. Global resources are manipulated to drive up profits until the users bleed and then prices are momentarily scaled back, that is at the resource to end user model. The other model which is futures speculation on commodities fixes and floats the world trade price. That is where the conspiratorial rape is going hand and hand with producer and stock markets..

[feltip]

this is 2014, not 2005, the UK article is posting data from 2006. The revelation from an industry leader has said in late 2013, NO PEAK OIL.. Peak oil was debunked at that point. Peak oil was used to hype oil prices UP, with perceived shortage, it's called commodity manipulation. The administration at that time was investigating wall street speculation on commodities - the creation of price fixing, artificial futures buying assuming price would go up... To create shortage, perceived shortage is manipulation for somebody's pocket. To post 2006 data as current is ludicrous. http://tdmtalk.blogspot.com/2006/03/...engineers.html that is what we are supposed to believe is current ----? 2006 peak, nonsense bahhh

i was merely suggesting the bell has been rung for a long time

i think there is a reason we are fracking...drilling deeper...oil grab wars

i also think the peaking of lots of resources is very much ordained when population growth is uncontrolled

for me - connecting the resource depletion dots with soul harvesting/dna munipulations makes sense.

i am not really about convincing anyone that infinite growth on a finite planet is pretty basic - just pointing out others have recognized this.

I understand more what you are saying - PREVIOUSLY was rung a long time that bell.. need to be specific to help us all understand :) where one is coming from.. At times to develop a thought in a thread with insufficient starting data leads folks into going into very emotional responses..

The INDUSTRY though, they started to point out, PEAK oil ISN'T here now, not any more.... What a revelation !

BUT manipulation IS here now even more so, that is the problem, a few are manipulating a commodity, and raping the world over it.

That's the issue, it could be CORN or POTATOES or any other food for a perceived shortage.

Energy is dear to people's pocket book. It took a NICKEL change in prices during Hurricane Katrina to bankrupt many truckers who had to pass the cost on to consumers..

The world won't stop moving. And whatever can be derived from any source (at any expense as long as obscene profit can be made from it), industry will continue to "drill baby drill..."

FelTip, you mentioned being in the oil industry and are aware of what goes on, from the downside or upside end of that? As you know I use a lot of the industry technical words; that should give you an idea that I am no novice in this field and am very aware of the exploration, the technology, the fields, the depth of formation, production, enhancement techniques (fraking, liquid or gas), and all of the cutting edge improvements. Global resources are manipulated to drive up profits until the users bleed and then prices are momentarily scaled back, that is at the resource to end user model. The other model which is futures speculation on commodities fixes and floats the world trade price. That is where the conspiratorial rape is going hand and hand with producer and stock markets..

i do not discount manipulation to generate profit.

That said - and as evidenced in my last post - the peakest appear to be right independent of manipulations.

ito perceived shortages - of food - we eat oil - so it really does not matter what other machinations in price are occurring with other resources - oil is the yardstick we measure most everything to.

i don't think oil is abiotic nor do i think the free energy fairy is gonna sprinkle pixy dust on our easy motoring ways.

nor do i think some grand enlightenment is gonna make folk eat less oil...short of rationing and starvation - and if that is enlightenment - then color me purple.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

"Fossil Fuel" Hoax
aka "How pseudo-science has reinforced the myth of peak oil and why the petroleum engine has been obsolete for decades."

What do water-powered cars, Col. L. Fletcher Prouty, Nikola Tesla, Stanley Meyer, Free Energy, the myth of peak oil (the idea that we will one day soon run out of petroleum), the myth that oil is a "fossil fuel", colonialism, Thomas Malthus and his theory of overpopulation and Darwinian "Survival of the Fittest" Evolution have in common? The answer lies within.

The first installment of a short series of rivetingly informative vids detailing what every human being should know about the world. Stay tuned for the solution.

XXnUD2-joAc

____________________________________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________

Time Out Productions is pleased to presents Pastor Lindsey Williams on the Non Energy Crisis.

Pastor Williams was the Chaplain for the men who worked to build the Alaskan Oil Pipeline in the 1970's.

Pastor Williams was given executive status and sat in on many of the top level oil executive meeting to act as a liaison between management and the workers. As a result of his experiences in Prudoe Bay, Alaska he wrote a very revealing, tell all book of the same name "The Non Energy Crisis" which exposed how the world wide oil business really works.

bMm7QYI7Bbg

____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________
From A Jerome Corsi interview (

April 26, 2012


On the April 23rd broadcast of Coast to Coast AM, award winning journalist and author Dr. Jerome Corsi provided new information and insights on the vast oil conspiracy, where processes created by Nazi scientists during World War II are being suppressed by the US government and oil corporations to keep the price of petroleum high to the world.

In his interview with Corsi, host George Noory explores the abiotic oil theory that most scientists reject due to their promotion of 'Peak Oil', and how German scientists not only stumbled upon a process of how to change coal into workable liquid fuels, but also in what they believe is the process the earth uses to create abundant oil from the mantle and core regions of the planet.


“George Norry: How did you research this, how did you even come to find out about this?

“Jerome Corsi: Well, I've known about this for a long time, with the Nazi's during World War II making synthetic oil. Germany had coal, but they did not have any petroleum, so, the German scientists beginning with the Weimar Republic were researching formulas to make oil synthetically.

“And they were very successful at it. Germany produced most of its gasoline and diesel fuel from coal. And these were the Fischer-Tropsch equations as they were known as, of which out scientists were very interested in after World War II.

“And George, the great secret is not just that the Nazi's knew how to make synthetic oil, the Nazi's with these Fischer-Tropsch equations unlocked the secret of how oil is created by the earth itself.

“That's the great secret... that's the suppressed knowledge.

“GN: Do you think Jerry that the oil companies, deep within some of those corporate offices, know that there is abiotic oil, that this planet has an abundance of oil that was always here since the formation of the planet four and half billion years ago? And that they are intentionally suppressing it, much like the tobacco companies held back information on nicotine and things like that?

“JC: I'm 100% certain of it, George. We're capable of drilling now, 40,000 feet below the surface of the ocean... about 8 or 10,000 feet of ocean, and maybe another 30,000 feet of bedrock. We're bringing oil up from those levels... that's seven miles down. - Coast to Coast AM, April 23rd”

The assertions made by Dr. Corsi on abiotic oil and knowledge suppression are validated by another individual who spent years with the oil company elite during his days along the Alaskan pipeline. Pastor Lindsey Williams was an a member of many Executive committees for major oil companies during the 1970's, and has repeatedly acknowledged that Big Oil knows about the abiotic process, and controls the price of energy through the propaganda of peak oil theory.

To exert control over oil, energy prices, and energy policies is to control the lifeblood of economies, food production, and populations. The price of oil and gasoline is intrinsically tied to the price of food, and the amount of disposable income people have to spend. In the US, consumer spending makes up 70% of the entire annual GDP, and any change in the amount consumers have to spend on non-critical necessities determines the growth or stagnation of the economy.

In fact, for every .10 rise in the price of gasoline the American consumer loses $25 billion in discretionary income to use in other parts of the economy.

Each President has administered oil policies according to the belief in peak oil theory, and Barack Obama is no exception. Instead of seeking to use synthetic oil processes to change our vast coal reserves into liquid fuels, or opening known reserve regions in the United States to petroleum drilling, his focus has been on alternative fuel technologies that to this point have cost the American taxpayer billions in failed implementation. At the same time, the price of oil and gasoline has soared close to levels achieved before the economic crash of 2008.

Dr Jerome Corsi's resarch on the great oil conspiracy will be published in a book with the same title later this year. However, much of his research can be found in documents located in the National archives, as well as in the libraries of Texas A&M University.

The concept that oil is abundant, cheap, and made by processes within the earth would change the standard of living for every person on the earth if the information was accepted as mainstream in the scientific community. The evidence that Nazi scientists in Germany discovered the process of creating oil, that is used by the planet for the creation of abundant energy, is a suppressed discovery that would be a sea change in improving life for all peoples around the world.

[Bob]

thanks 778 :) I have been on-site and PERSONALLY seen the Abiotic Oil at 30,000 foot depths, in places where there is NO INDICATION what-so-ever of fossil production, plankton production. There is so much of this in North America, it dwarfs any Persian Gulf, or Saudi, or potential Iranian production.

[feltip]

thanks 778 :) I have been on-site and PERSONALLY seen the Abiotic Oil at 30,000 foot depths, in places where there is NO INDICATION what-so-ever of fossil production, plankton production. There is so much of this in North America, it dwarfs any Persian Gulf, or Saudi, or potential Iranian production.

peak oil is less about "There is so much of this in North America" - then production rates

even if NG and fresh water were limitless (and they are not) to the development of tar sands in Canada - Athabasca would only ever produce 4-6 million barrels a day...drill baby drill in fact is a misnomer - the fact is (as evidenced in west texas in the late 70s) the more rigs one throws at a field only drains the field more quickly without an attendant increase in production (see recently ghawar off shore drilling rigs VS production for another example) - the more tertiary treatments actually collapse a field more quickly then it would "naturally" (see canterella field in mexico - currently in catastrophic decline resulting from tertiary injections)

i cannot believe Williams and his "back door meetings with the mutants" is still being posted as scientific anything.

did anyone go to here?

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360544213009420

melting rock and destroying fresh water sources is not a plan - rather it is more indicative of a crack user pulling tricks in a dark alley for more juice.

[Bob]

thanks 778 :) I have been on-site and PERSONALLY seen the Abiotic Oil at 30,000 foot depths, in places where there is NO INDICATION what-so-ever of fossil production, plankton production. There is so much of this in North America, it dwarfs any Persian Gulf, or Saudi, or potential Iranian production.

peak oil is less about "There is so much of this in North America" - then production rates

even if NG and fresh water were limitless (and they are not) to the development of tar sands in Canada - Athabasca would only ever produce 4-6 million barrels a day...drill baby drill in fact is a misnomer - the fact is (as evidenced in west texas in the late 70s) the more rigs one throws at a field only drains the field more quickly - the more tertiary treatments actually collapse a field more quickly then it would "naturally".

i cannot believe Williams and his "back door meetings with the mutants" is still being posted as scientific anything.

did anyone go to here?

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360544213009420

melting rock and destroying fresh water sources is not a plan - rather it is more indicative of a crack user pulling tricks in a dark alley for more juice.

Did anyone go to a page that says you can pay to view the article:

Forecasting the limits to the availability and diversity of global conventional oil supply: Validation
John L. Hallock Jr.a, Corresponding author contact information, E-mail the corresponding author, Wei Wub, E-mail the corresponding author, Charles A.S. Halla, c, E-mail the corresponding author, Michael Jeffersond, E-mail the corresponding author
a Department of Environmental & Forest Biology, SUNY College of Environmental Science & Forestry, 1 Forestry Dr., Syracuse, NY 13210, USA
b Department of Coastal Sciences, Gulf Coast Research Laboratory, The University of Southern Mississippi, Ocean Springs, MS 39564, USA
c Department of Environmental Science, SUNY College of Environmental Science & Forestry, 1 Forestry Dr., Syracuse, NY 13210, USA
d ESCP Europe Business School & Advisory Board Member, ESCP Research Centre for Energy Management, 527 Finchley Rd., London NW37BG, UK
Choose an option to locate/access this article:
Check if you have access through your login credentials or your institution
Check access
Purchase $35.95

Come on Feltip - which fields have you worked and in what capacity?

[feltip]

thanks 778 :) I have been on-site and PERSONALLY seen the Abiotic Oil at 30,000 foot depths, in places where there is NO INDICATION what-so-ever of fossil production, plankton production. There is so much of this in North America, it dwarfs any Persian Gulf, or Saudi, or potential Iranian production.

peak oil is less about "There is so much of this in North America" - then production rates

even if NG and fresh water were limitless (and they are not) to the development of tar sands in Canada - Athabasca would only ever produce 4-6 million barrels a day...drill baby drill in fact is a misnomer - the fact is (as evidenced in west texas in the late 70s) the more rigs one throws at a field only drains the field more quickly - the more tertiary treatments actually collapse a field more quickly then it would "naturally".

i cannot believe Williams and his "back door meetings with the mutants" is still being posted as scientific anything.

did anyone go to here?

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360544213009420

melting rock and destroying fresh water sources is not a plan - rather it is more indicative of a crack user pulling tricks in a dark alley for more juice.

Did anyone go to a page that says you can pay to view the article:

Forecasting the limits to the availability and diversity of global conventional oil supply: Validation
John L. Hallock Jr.a, Corresponding author contact information, E-mail the corresponding author, Wei Wub, E-mail the corresponding author, Charles A.S. Halla, c, E-mail the corresponding author, Michael Jeffersond, E-mail the corresponding author
a Department of Environmental & Forest Biology, SUNY College of Environmental Science & Forestry, 1 Forestry Dr., Syracuse, NY 13210, USA
b Department of Coastal Sciences, Gulf Coast Research Laboratory, The University of Southern Mississippi, Ocean Springs, MS 39564, USA
c Department of Environmental Science, SUNY College of Environmental Science & Forestry, 1 Forestry Dr., Syracuse, NY 13210, USA
d ESCP Europe Business School & Advisory Board Member, ESCP Research Centre for Energy Management, 527 Finchley Rd., London NW37BG, UK
Choose an option to locate/access this article:
Check if you have access through your login credentials or your institution
Check access
Purchase $35.95

Come on Feltip - which fields have you worked and in what capacity?

there is information there that does not require payment.

i'd rather pay $40.00 then listen to Williams banter about his back door meetings.

ito my experience - you can believe me or not - but i will not be throwing up my CV for you anytime soon.

suffice to say i know this topic - very well

but if i am having to counter the likes of "oil is abiotic" and "Williams met with the mutants"....and "drill baby drill in the go ol USA"...

i'll count blades of grass first

[778 neighbour of some guy]

fresh water were limitless (and they are not)

90 percent of all fresh water is evaporated ocean water coming down as rain ( distilled), it may not be a limitless resource, but its damn close to it, and so it has been for billions of years, would it be wise to use the toilet wisely and take shorter showers and don't use fresh water for personal swimming pools and save water or use it differently in agriculture, sure, but we are not as screwed as they say we are.

So far the information about oil, water and nuclear we know about is the information that has been made AVAILABLE to us, and what has been made available to us is very likely just the info that works best for THEM, not for us, don't forget who pays the labs, the scientists, the university curriculum and the research, we only know what they prefer to tell us, and my best guess is they prefer to tell/show us as little as possible, they have done it with everything else, what makes you think this is any different, this is business, their business and they are good at it, we don't know jack, if your not in the loop, the incrowd, you, me, us, are as dumb as they want us to be, even the internet info is skewed, doctored, spun, mis/disinfo, very few things WE have access to are pure and unadulterated, this is no different. Same goes for overpopulation btw, we are very capable of regulating ourselves, if can do it, so can many many others, and they are, all one has to do is think reasonably intelligent, you don't have to be a genius to figure out the current situation is far from ideal, but you also don't have to be a genius to come up with a good idea that works and makes things less complicated in agriculture, energy, transportation and distribution and what else have we, I have seen a lot of great solutions, they are here, just educate people about what is reasonable to expect from any system, people have no clue of how smart they can be and they too can think of solutions, no need to cull anything, were not monkeys anymore.

[feltip]

here's yet another (more recent) bell ringing - from a free site:


”Increasing vulnerability from resource scarcity and climate change, with the potential for major social and economic disruption”.
We have never previously had global economic growth without increased use of energy. In reality, that means energy from fossil fuels for which oil is the leading component. Ten years ago the coupling between increased energy use and economic growth was what led the IEA to predict an energy demand of 121 Mb/d in 2030. Now they have reduced their expectations to around 100 Mb/d and the analyses we have made of the future show that this level of supply/demand cannot be realized. As IEA this year makes a detailed analysis of oil I have to come back and discuss this. The warning flag that the IEA has now raised should be taken with utmost seriousness.
Dr Fatih Birol’s slides and oral presentation can be found at the IEA’s website (www.iea.org). Considering the limits he probably has on making statements on the future I would regard this year’s presentation as much more nuanced than last year’s. Last year I was actually present when he repeated his presentation in Stockholm. Below are some comments on his presentation.
I share his view that high oil prices affect the economies of oil-importing nations. The fact that the USA has increased production of shale oil means that they do not have the same severity of economic problems with oil as the EU. To import oil at higher prices one must be able to pay for it with increased exports of goods and services. Sweden has succeeded quite with this well while other nations in the EU have not been as successful. The fact that the IEA now asserts that the high oil prices will persist means that it is time for oil importing nations to make fundamental changes in their energy policies.
When the IEA studies which regions have a need to increase oil use it is mainly in the Middle East and India that this is seen. That the increase in use in China is slowing down is expected since they will become increasingly efficient with their energy use in future. The rate of increase of renewable energy use is not expected to grow more than for fossil fuels which means that the proportion that renewables make up of total energy use will continue to be the same as 20 years ago. This rate of increase of fossil fuels points to global warming of +3.6 °C.
Regarding transport fuels the demand for diesel increases three times more than the demand for gasoline. This confirms what I wrote approximately 6 months ago. Another significant change is that the proportion of NGL, natural gas liquids, that is included in oil production statistics increases. In the USA, NGL has already replaced large volumes of oil feedstocks in the chemical industry and this will be an increasing trend.

Then it was time to look at shale oil in the USA. Dr Birol asserted that there would be no second chapter of the shale oil success story that is now playing out in the USA. If one includes NGL then it may be that the USA becomes the world’s largest oil producer around 2020 but its production will then decline. Last year the IEA played down the future importance of the Middle East in oil production but this year they indicated that an increase in oil production from the Middle East is necessary. Those projects that are now seen ahead as necessary have long lead times and the investments must be made now. The increase in oil production that the IEA regarded as necessary from Middle Eastern sources was 6 Mb/d.

Regarding production of conventional oil the IEA maintained its position that the decline in production from existing producing fields is 6% per year, i.e. that same decline rate that we published in 2009. The current rate of production of around 67 Mb/d will decline to 17 Mb/d by 2035 (i.e. in 22 years). Earlier, we don’t see that a realistic compensation for this decline in oil production could be envisaged. A later, more detailed study will show how things progressed this year. What the IEA currently presents as very important is Brazil. Thus, it is time to show again Olle Qvennerstedt’s illustration that describes the World Energy Outlook.


http://www.peakoil.net/headline-news/the-iea-raises-a-little-warning-flag-on-future-oil-production-world-energy-outlook-201

[feltip]

take shorter showers....


Taking Shorter Showers Doesn’t Cut It

Why Personal Change Does Not Equal Political Change

People who pat themselves on the back for their lifestyle might yet have more to do. And to do it might need a positive vision. This article was first published in the July/August 2009 issue of Orion Magazine click here then posted on AlterNet July 13.


by Derrick Jensen

Who thinks dumpster diving would have stopped Hitler, or that composting would have ended slavery or brought about the eight-hour workday, or that chopping wood and carrying water would have gotten people out of Tsarist prisons, or that dancing naked around a fire would have helped put in place the Voting Rights Act of 1957 or the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Yet now many people retreat into these entirely personal “solutions”.

An Inconvenient Truth helped raise consciousness about global warming. But all the solutions presented had to do with personal consumption — changing light bulbs, inflating tires, driving half as much — and had nothing to do with shifting power away from corporations, or stopping the growth economy. Even if every person in the United States did everything the movie suggested, US carbon emissions would fall by only 22%. Scientific consensus is that emissions must be reduced by at least 75% worldwide.

Kirkpatrick Sale noted: “For the past 15 years, individual consumption of energy — residential, by private car, and so on — is about a quarter of all consumption; the vast majority is commercial, industrial, corporate, by agribusiness, and government [he forgot military]. So, even if we all took up cycling and wood stoves, it would have a negligible impact on atmospheric pollution.”

Or let’s talk water. More than 90% of the water used by humans is used by agriculture and industry. The remaining 10% is split between municipalities and actual living breathing individual humans. Collectively, municipal golf courses use as much water as municipal human beings. Shorter showers won’t dent 90% of water use

Or let’s talk waste. Municipal waste accounts for only 3% of total waste production in the United States. Reduce, reuse, and recycle won’t dent 97% of garbage.

Every action involving the industrial economy is destructive; solar photovoltaics, for example, require mining and transportation infrastructures at every point in the production processes; the same can be said for every other apt-tech. If we live simply, thus causing less harm, we get to feel pure. But not transforming the economy keeps it chewing up and spewing on the planet.

One problem with simple living is that it incorrectly assigns blame to the individual (and most especially to individuals who are particularly powerless) instead of to those who actually wield power in this system and to the system itself.

Another is that the endpoint of the logic behind simple living as a political act is suicide. If every act within an industrial economy is destructive, and if we want to stop this destruction, and if we are unwilling (or unable) to question (much less replace) the intellectual, moral, economic, and physical infrastructures that destroy, then what will cause the least destruction possible is us being dead.

Simple living consists solely of harm reduction, yet humans can help the Earth, too. We can rehabilitate streams, get rid of noxious invasives, remove dams, disrupt a political system tilted toward the rich as well as an extractive economic system, we can destroy the industrial economy that is destroying the real, physical world.

The fourth problem is that it redefines us from citizens to consumers. By accepting this redefinition, we reduce our potential forms of resistance to consuming and not consuming. Citizens have a much wider range of available resistance tactics, including voting, not voting, running for office, pamphleting, boycotting, organizing, lobbying, protesting, and, when a government becomes destructive of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, we have the right to alter or abolish it.

While I live reasonably simply myself, I don’t pretend that not buying much (or not driving much, or not having kids) is a powerful political act, or that it’s deeply revolutionary. It’s not. Personal change doesn’t equal social change.

http://www.progress.org/tpr/taking-shorter-showers-doesnt-cut-it/

[Bob]

[QUOTE=Bobd;779558]thanks 778 :) I have been on-site and PERSONALLY seen the Abiotic Oil at 30,000 foot depths, in places where there is NO INDICATION what-so-ever of fossil production, plankton production. There is so much of this in North America, it dwarfs any Persian Gulf, or Saudi, or potential Iranian production.

[..]
Come on Feltip - which fields have you worked and in what capacity?

there is information there that does not require payment.

i'd rather pay $40.00 then listen to Williams banter about his back door meetings.

ito my experience - you can believe me or not - but i will not be throwing up my CV for you anytime soon.

suffice to say i know this topic - very well

but if i am having to counter the likes of "oil is abiotic" and "Williams met with the mutants"....and "drill baby drill in the go ol USA"...

i'll count blades of grass first

There is fossil, plankton source rock kitchen produced hydrocarbon, cooked over time and those are in the normally talked about production depths. All the states talk about production depths, the "zones" and historically have shown production from those depths, and stimulation efforts, acid fraking, nitro fracking, water or gas fraking as needed depending on the tightness of the formation - different well additives (as needed) to keep production going after the fact in wells that are marginal..

I appreciate your insistence for whatever reason, that old data, in that article the abstract says 2001 the data is EMPIRICAL meaning it is an ASSUMPTION, it is NOT FACT.. it is projections.. The data is OLD. Industry, Texas Railroad Commission said in September 2013 there is no peak oil, bringing up old data, old empirical assumptions from old geodata is not telling it like it is.

Those guys let the licenses for exploration, the permitting, the well oversight, reporting and under-reporting, capping, plugging, shut-ins. They know what's up. I would believe them as an authority since seeing CV is not in the offing apparently.

Again, this is useless to proceed any further in this thread.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

take shorter showers....


Taking Shorter Showers Doesn’t Cut It

Why Personal Change Does Not Equal Political Change

People who pat themselves on the back for their lifestyle might yet have more to do. And to do it might need a positive vision. This article was first published in the July/August 2009 issue of Orion Magazine click here then posted on AlterNet July 13.


by Derrick Jensen

Who thinks dumpster diving would have stopped Hitler, or that composting would have ended slavery or brought about the eight-hour workday, or that chopping wood and carrying water would have gotten people out of Tsarist prisons, or that dancing naked around a fire would have helped put in place the Voting Rights Act of 1957 or the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Yet now many people retreat into these entirely personal “solutions”.

An Inconvenient Truth helped raise consciousness about global warming. But all the solutions presented had to do with personal consumption — changing light bulbs, inflating tires, driving half as much — and had nothing to do with shifting power away from corporations, or stopping the growth economy. Even if every person in the United States did everything the movie suggested, US carbon emissions would fall by only 22%. Scientific consensus is that emissions must be reduced by at least 75% worldwide.

Kirkpatrick Sale noted: “For the past 15 years, individual consumption of energy — residential, by private car, and so on — is about a quarter of all consumption; the vast majority is commercial, industrial, corporate, by agribusiness, and government [he forgot military]. So, even if we all took up cycling and wood stoves, it would have a negligible impact on atmospheric pollution.”

Or let’s talk water. More than 90% of the water used by humans is used by agriculture and industry. The remaining 10% is split between municipalities and actual living breathing individual humans. Collectively, municipal golf courses use as much water as municipal human beings. Shorter showers won’t dent 90% of water use

Or let’s talk waste. Municipal waste accounts for only 3% of total waste production in the United States. Reduce, reuse, and recycle won’t dent 97% of garbage.

Every action involving the industrial economy is destructive; solar photovoltaics, for example, require mining and transportation infrastructures at every point in the production processes; the same can be said for every other apt-tech. If we live simply, thus causing less harm, we get to feel pure. But not transforming the economy keeps it chewing up and spewing on the planet.

One problem with simple living is that it incorrectly assigns blame to the individual (and most especially to individuals who are particularly powerless) instead of to those who actually wield power in this system and to the system itself.

Another is that the endpoint of the logic behind simple living as a political act is suicide. If every act within an industrial economy is destructive, and if we want to stop this destruction, and if we are unwilling (or unable) to question (much less replace) the intellectual, moral, economic, and physical infrastructures that destroy, then what will cause the least destruction possible is us being dead.

Simple living consists solely of harm reduction, yet humans can help the Earth, too. We can rehabilitate streams, get rid of noxious invasives, remove dams, disrupt a political system tilted toward the rich as well as an extractive economic system, we can destroy the industrial economy that is destroying the real, physical world.

The fourth problem is that it redefines us from citizens to consumers. By accepting this redefinition, we reduce our potential forms of resistance to consuming and not consuming. Citizens have a much wider range of available resistance tactics, including voting, not voting, running for office, pamphleting, boycotting, organizing, lobbying, protesting, and, when a government becomes destructive of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, we have the right to alter or abolish it.

While I live reasonably simply myself, I don’t pretend that not buying much (or not driving much, or not having kids) is a powerful political act, or that it’s deeply revolutionary. It’s not. Personal change doesn’t equal social change.

http://www.progress.org/tpr/taking-shorter-showers-doesnt-cut-it/


don't use fresh water for personal swimming pools and save water or use it differently in agriculture, sure, but we are not as screwed as they say we are.


You didn't include these, just assume you forgot, so there you go.

Bob asked you a question I believe.


Come on Feltip - which fields have you worked and in what capacity?

[feltip]

[QUOTE=Bobd;779558]thanks 778 :) I have been on-site and PERSONALLY seen the Abiotic Oil at 30,000 foot depths, in places where there is NO INDICATION what-so-ever of fossil production, plankton production. There is so much of this in North America, it dwarfs any Persian Gulf, or Saudi, or potential Iranian production.

[..]
Come on Feltip - which fields have you worked and in what capacity?

there is information there that does not require payment.

i'd rather pay $40.00 then listen to Williams banter about his back door meetings.

ito my experience - you can believe me or not - but i will not be throwing up my CV for you anytime soon.

suffice to say i know this topic - very well

but if i am having to counter the likes of "oil is abiotic" and "Williams met with the mutants"....and "drill baby drill in the go ol USA"...

i'll count blades of grass first

There is fossil, plankton source rock kitchen produced hydrocarbon, cooked over time and those are in the normally talked about production depths. All the states talk about production depths, the "zones" and historically have shown production from those depths, and stimulation efforts, acid fraking, nitro fracking, water or gas fraking as needed depending on the tightness of the formation - different well additives (as needed) to keep production going after the fact in wells that are marginal..

I appreciate your insistence for whatever reason, that old data, in that article the abstract says 2001 the data is EMPIRICAL meaning it is an ASSUMPTION, it is NOT FACT.. it is projections.. The data is OLD. Industry, Texas Railroad Commission said in September 2013 there is no peak oil, bringing up old data, old empirical assumptions from old geodata is not telling it like it is.

Those guys let the licenses for exploration, the permitting, the well oversight, reporting and under-reporting, capping, plugging, shut-ins. They know what's up. I would believe them as an authority since seeing CV is not in the offing apparently.

Again, this is useless to proceed any further in this thread.

quite ironic that the trc says no peak when in fact west texas fields peaked in September 1973...amnesia you think?

in fact - there is a 400 mile pipeline proposed from NM to Denver City Texas to pump CO2 into those depleted fields to get more out.

guess $30 in C02 for $100 in oil will always make economic sense

too bad most think we can print barrels of oil

yeah i agree - what i have been asked to respond to is really a very tiring fight and i am longer in the PO tooth then i was years ago...oh well i am sure $15/gallon gas will be blamed on a boogey man in a cave somewhere.

carry on

[feltip]

Bob asked you a question I believe.


Come on Feltip - which fields have you worked and in what capacity?

i could tell you i was god - and you would believe Williams over me.

funny thing about humans - we are wedded to unfounded beliefs to a fault.

it really does not matter - now does it - who i am and where i worked in what capacity.

your beliefs are in stone

[DeDukshyn]

Wow this thread had more life than I was expecting it to have :)

Peak oil or not? I think the "manipulators" don't really care about this validation other than what proclaiming either validation has on our collective psyche -- I see them trying to play a balancing act ...

"We are at peak oil" = extreme price gouging, tightening control, tightening regulations, implementing more control over entire counties.
"We will never be at peak oil" = Don't worry about thinking about the need to implement properly earth/human sustainable alternatives to oil, we'll never run out

And there you have it -- the argument is the distraction. The argument itself is a tool of manipulation by them. I personally have no idea if we are at peak oil or not, nor do I care to take up that argument. I think the actual argument about whether we are at peak oil is really quite pointless.

My 2 cents ;)

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Bob asked you a question I believe.


Come on Feltip - which fields have you worked and in what capacity?

i could tell you i was god - and you would believe Williams over me.

funny thing about humans - we are wedded to unfounded beliefs to a fault.

it really does not matter - now does it - who i am and where i worked in what capacity.

your beliefs are in stone

Nah I don't think so, I am open to a lot of things, I like stones, I don't write on them, nor do I believe Williams or trust him on his word, what he offers, just like many others is a different perspective and I am open to/for different perspectives, I don't work in oil, nor am I a scientist, so, I deal with different perspectives and try to make some sense of it, water, oil, nuclear, science, whatever, we know what is presented to us, by no means what has been told us has to be true, no matter what the source is, we are dealing with agendas of moneymakers and controlfreaks, and with the information they created. We know what they want us to know, what they want us to is very likely NOT the whole story or the real story, the story is THEIR story.

[feltip]

Bob asked you a question I believe.


Come on Feltip - which fields have you worked and in what capacity?

i could tell you i was god - and you would believe Williams over me.

funny thing about humans - we are wedded to unfounded beliefs to a fault.

it really does not matter - now does it - who i am and where i worked in what capacity.

your beliefs are in stone

Nah I don't think so, I am open to a lot of things, I like stones, I don't write on them, nor do I believe Williams or trust him on his word, what he offers, just like many others is a different perspective and I am open to/for different perspectives, I don't work in oil, nor am I a scientist, so, I deal with different perspectives and try to make some sense of it, water, oil, nuclear, science, whatever, we know what is presented to us, by no means what has been told us has to be true, no matter what the source is, we are dealing with agendas of moneymakers and controlfreaks, and with the information they created. We know what they want us to know, what they want us to is very likely NOT the whole story or the real story, the story is THEIR story.

ok well i crashed "their" party - and i think i have this "about" right.

if you want a summary of the party crashing go to the thread about the hitler speech.

depending on whether i stay at PA or move along - i may start a thread with a detailed account of this party crashing - what i think is at stake and where i see the human project going.

i may just move along...the prerequisites have become for me harder to convey to others (2 steps forward 500 back) because i tire of the same worn out arguments (Williams in this thread blew me away - can't believe he is still sourced wow.) anyway i have become quite cynical and somewhat abrasive - not good for me and certainly not good for this forum - we'll see.

[Atlas]

Peter Voser, CEO, Royal Dutch Shell plc, March 2013 :

by 2030 we expect demand for critical resources like water, energy, and food to have risen by 40%-50%.
To meet those needs [...], business as usual will not be an option – we require business unusual.http://s01.static-shell.com/content/dam/shell-new/local/corporate/Scenarios/Downloads/Scenarios_newdoc.pdf

[GreenGuy]

Corps of Engineers in 2005 stated...

http://tdmtalk.blogspot.com/2006/03/peak-oil-and-army-corp-of-engineers.html


I also don't trust the Corps Of Engineers. In fact, I trust almost nothing that comes from a corporate or government source at face value. It's too bad it has to come to that, but it has. I'm not saying that peak oil isn't looming, I'm saying I don't trust the sources that are making the most noise and spreading the most fear about it.

I don't know why folks get so upset about the end of "life as we know it." LAWKI sucks for a lot of people, all over the world. Always has, but there have always been men and women who have chosen happiness, able to get the most out of life no matter what their circumstances. There are such people now,and there always will be.

It seems to me that if LAWKI goes out of style, most of what will disappear is stuff we gripe about anyway - like mindless consumerism, endless debt, wanton destruction of resources, etc. Once they get over the shock, people will discover their own positivity, and all kinds of new paradigms will follow.

Peak Oil or no PO, things are becoming increasingly unsustainable allover the planet. Life as we've known it for generations is going to undergo some major changes if we're to survive, and especially if we don't. Peak oil...people say it like it's a bad thing.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

i may start a thread with a detailed account of this party crashing - what i think is at stake and where i see the human project going.

Please do:cool:

[feltip]

ty buares !

papering over peak oil with petro dollars is about to come to an end. i think we will be facing severe shortages (real) long before 2030.

thing about PO - it's ultimately about energy return on energy invested (EROI) - when it costs more to get less energy - we have a problem Houston. and because oil is our "other blood" there really is no way around a drastic reduction in population - peak oil is a temporary condition...temporarily (as a function of production).

[DeDukshyn]

ty buares !

papering over peak oil with petro dollars is about to come to an end. i think we will be facing severe shortages (real) long before 2030.

thing about PO - it's ultimately about energy return on energy invested (EROI) - when it costs more to get less energy - we have a problem Houston. and because oil is our "other blood" there really is no way around a drastic reduction in population - peak oil is a temporary condition...temporarily (as a function of production).

Feltip,

Do you think there are no alternatives to oil and gas as energy? Why focus on our problems when we all know focusing on the solution is what brings the solution ... ?

In theory, we could spend a few years likely arguing about all the differing sources of info on the topic without getting anywhere. Or we could spend those resources otherwise spent on this debate on bringing awareness to the real problem, which is whether there is PO or not, crude is not earth / life sustainable in the current way we are using it -- and it is this that NEEDS to change - this is what needs to be the focus. The argument over peak oil or no peak oil is almost entirely outside this consideration (small overlap depending on what time-frames are required), which is again why I call it the ultimate distraction ... The outcome of this thread (although it has some good posts in it) I think is testament to the success of this distraction. ;)

[feltip]

Feltip,

Do you think there are no alternatives to oil and gas as energy? Why focus on our problems when we all know focusing on the solution is what brings the solution ... ?


the solutions lies in reduction of the use of resources - which means less economic growth - that means we default on 500 trillion dollars in debt - that of course will bring us to economic collapse just as peak oil is currently being defined by economic collapse...lose lose

the solution lies in the reduction of energy slaves - that means the 70 slaves that have followed me around today must go and i need to get by with my own back strength and a pail to get water a mile away if i want to have a drink.

i am not focusing on the problem, but rather the challenge at hand - what have you done today to reduce you energy slaves...? have you set any free? what about your neighbors? that iphone was made by people working many long hours in sub human conditions so my daughter could take a freak'n selfie of herself - 500 times! (yeah bad parenting...got it...do you drive? because each time you fill up you support the problem).

our goose is cooked...if we all didn't go to work to reduce consumption the machine would grind to a halt...good thing eh...then we get hungry...bad thing.

fuel cells, water cars, swimming pools is no more then us saying...i want to continue my easy motoring way while 3 billion others starve each night.

is there a workable solution? hasn't been one in the 10K years since totalitarian agriculture came into being...when humans placed themselves over all other species...i don't expect there will be a solution that is not horribly painful...so yes - if you can stand the pain - and you make it through the killoff...there's your solution...if that can be considered a solution.

then again i could be entirely wrong and in fact something that has never happened before...may happen.

[Atlas]

Sebastian Blanco (http://www.autoblog.com/bloggers/sebastian-blanco/) wrote:

"Crazy new energy sources are being investigated (like methane hydrate, or crystalline natural gas). These require incredibly expensive research and exploration efforts, but the end result could be, as The Atlantic so provocatively puts it, "infinite fossil fuel?" The magazine has a detailed debate on the subject between Charles Mann and Amory Lovins :


What If We Never Run Out of Oil? (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/05/what-if-we-never-run-out-of-oil/309294/)
New technology and a little-known energy source suggest that fossil fuels may not be finite. This would be a miracle—and a nightmare.
It Doesn't Matter If We Never Run Out of Oil: We Won't Want to Burn It Anymore (http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/05/it-doesnt-matter-if-we-never-run-out-of-oil-we-wont-want-to-burn-it-anymore/275773/)
Like whale oil in the 1860s, oil today has become uncompetitive -- even at low prices -- and that will only become truer with time.
No, Really: We're Going to Keep Burning Oil—and Lots of It (http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/05/no-really-were-going-to-keep-burning-oil-and-lots-of-it/275839/)
No matter how much we wish it were otherwise, the economics favor burning fossil fuels.

[feltip]

Corps of Engineers in 2005 stated...

http://tdmtalk.blogspot.com/2006/03/peak-oil-and-army-corp-of-engineers.html


I also don't trust the Corps Of Engineers. In fact, I trust almost nothing that comes from a corporate or government source at face value. It's too bad it has to come to that, but it has. I'm not saying that peak oil isn't looming, I'm saying I don't trust the sources that are making the most noise and spreading the most fear about it.

I don't know why folks get so upset about the end of "life as we know it." LAWKI sucks for a lot of people, all over the world. Always has, but there have always been men and women who have chosen happiness, able to get the most out of life no matter what their circumstances. There are such people now,and there always will be.

It seems to me that if LAWKI goes out of style, most of what will disappear is stuff we gripe about anyway - like mindless consumerism, endless debt, wanton destruction of resources, etc. Once they get over the shock, people will discover their own positivity, and all kinds of new paradigms will follow.

Peak Oil or no PO, things are becoming increasingly unsustainable allover the planet. Life as we've known it for generations is going to undergo some major changes if we're to survive, and especially if we don't. Peak oil...people say it like it's a bad thing.

here's an archive of a site i belonged to for years - non gubbermint - mostly experts in the field.

http://www.theoildrum.com/

they were not spreading fear rather a cautionary message - and i think there is a world of difference between the two.


Peak oil...people say it like it's a bad thing.

well if one laid the population curve over oil production curve one would see something pretty upsetting - that we grow proportionally to the production of oil...all our food systems are dependent on oil.

but something that folk don't normally think about or think about in a reverse way is that the cessation of burning fossil fuels means we reduce the effects of climate change - and that may not be the case at all...in fact the burning of fossil fuels may be "saving" us from accelerated global warming:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sun/

so while i think reduced consumerism is a good thing and growing lots of food to feed a hungry planet is a good thing...the peaking of resources - oil - may not be in the end.

[Tesseract]

There are two ways to get the paper for free (that one that costs $40 from elsevier):

1) Ask someone at a university to download it via the university library.

2) Email the author directly and ask for a PDF copy, just say that you don't have full journal access at the current time. I do this from time to time and almost always get what I ask for.

[DeDukshyn]

Feltip,

Do you think there are no alternatives to oil and gas as energy? Why focus on our problems when we all know focusing on the solution is what brings the solution ... ?


the solutions lies in reduction of the use of resources - which means less economic growth - that means we default on 500 trillion dollars in debt - that of course will bring us to economic collapse just as peak oil is currently being defined by economic collapse...lose lose

the solution lies in the reduction of energy slaves - that means the 70 slaves that have followed me around today must go and i need to get by with my own back strength and a pail to get water a mile away if i want to have a drink.

i am not focusing on the problem, but rather the challenge at hand - what have you done today to reduce you energy slaves...? have you set any free? what about your neighbors? that iphone was made by people working many long hours in sub human conditions so my daughter could take a freak'n selfie of herself - 500 times! (yeah bad parenting...got it...do you drive? because each time you fill up you support the problem).

our goose is cooked...if we all didn't go to work to reduce consumption the machine would grind to a halt...good thing eh...then we get hungry...bad thing.

fuel cells, water cars, swimming pools is no more then us saying...i want to continue my easy motoring way while 3 billion others starve each night.

is there a workable solution? hasn't been one in the 10K years since totalitarian agriculture came into being...when humans placed themselves over all other species...i don't expect there will be a solution that is not horribly painful...so yes - if you can stand the pain - and you make it through the killoff...there's your solution...if that can be considered a solution.

then again i could be entirely wrong and in fact something that has never happened before...may happen.

Everyday things happen that have never happened before .. every single day.

I see you challenging whether or not I am working on the solution. Yes I am, in fact I went 4 years without a vehicle by choice - even with two children. It was hard, but not impossible. After the third, I needed to buy something so I now drive a fuel efficient Toyota van -- single vehicle for myself, my "wife" and three kids -- no excess, yet I could afford another one and it would be more convenient yet.

Do I encourage people to look into sustainable energy and think about the problems we will be facing? Yes I do, my facebook, my emails, etc. I look for reaching the masses where I can. In personal conversations I do the same - as I have done on this thread. I bring peoples awareness to get them thinking on alternatives to oil, by spreading and sharing Tesla's works, and experiments. Even to those who believe the lies that Tesla was a kook, one still can't help but be inspired by his spirit in his quest for free energy, if you know his story.

Do I try to remain not distracted in this world of media lies, and emotional distractions? Yes, in fact I have never owned a mobile phone in my life, and the only things I "Like" on facebook are articles that promote this and a few other endeavours for the betterment of the future of mankind ;) I fight fire with fire where needed.

I do not watch any news on the TV, and scarcely believe anything I read in any media. I certainly am wary of corporate "economic reports" because they are there to manipulate - not educate, the vast majority of instances.

My children are also getting taught with the values I have, and I request that they do better than I did. They will carry this on to their children and then to theirs.

With my limited resources. I am personally becoming the solution to the best of my current ability, and spreading that to others in a positive reinforcement type of way. I find that most people these days - tend to get "hooked" on the emotional tug of the gossip of doom and gloom and never bother thinking or looking at a solution, or they've seen the "doom and gloom" scenario a thousand times and will tend not to buy it.

However, engage them first in potential solutions, and you have planted a seed ... Just a thought ;)

[feltip]

Feltip,

Do you think there are no alternatives to oil and gas as energy? Why focus on our problems when we all know focusing on the solution is what brings the solution ... ?


the solutions lies in reduction of the use of resources - which means less economic growth - that means we default on 500 trillion dollars in debt - that of course will bring us to economic collapse just as peak oil is currently being defined by economic collapse...lose lose

the solution lies in the reduction of energy slaves - that means the 70 slaves that have followed me around today must go and i need to get by with my own back strength and a pail to get water a mile away if i want to have a drink.

i am not focusing on the problem, but rather the challenge at hand - what have you done today to reduce you energy slaves...? have you set any free? what about your neighbors? that iphone was made by people working many long hours in sub human conditions so my daughter could take a freak'n selfie of herself - 500 times! (yeah bad parenting...got it...do you drive? because each time you fill up you support the problem).

our goose is cooked...if we all didn't go to work to reduce consumption the machine would grind to a halt...good thing eh...then we get hungry...bad thing.

fuel cells, water cars, swimming pools is no more then us saying...i want to continue my easy motoring way while 3 billion others starve each night.

is there a workable solution? hasn't been one in the 10K years since totalitarian agriculture came into being...when humans placed themselves over all other species...i don't expect there will be a solution that is not horribly painful...so yes - if you can stand the pain - and you make it through the killoff...there's your solution...if that can be considered a solution.

then again i could be entirely wrong and in fact something that has never happened before...may happen.

Everyday things happen that have never happened before .. every single day.

I see you challenging whether or not I am working on the solution. Yes I am, in fact I went 4 years without a vehicle by choice - even with two children. It was hard, but not impossible. After the third, I needed to buy something so I now drive a fuel efficient Toyota van -- single vehicle for myself, my "wife" and three kids -- no excess, yet I could afford another one and it would be more convenient yet.

Do I encourage people to look into sustainable energy and think about the problems we will be facing? Yes I do, my facebook, my emails, etc. I look for reaching the masses where I can. In personal conversations I do the same - as I have done on this thread. I bring peoples awareness to get them thinking on alternatives to oil, by spreading and sharing Tesla's works, and experiments. Even to those who believe the lies that Tesla was a kook, one still can't help but be inspired by his spirit in his quest for free energy, if you know his story.

Do I try to remain not distracted in this world of media lies, and emotional distractions? Yes, in fact I have never owned a mobile phone in my life, and the only things I "Like" on facebook are articles that promote this and a few other endeavours for the betterment of the future of mankind ;) I fight fire with fire where needed.

I do not watch any news on the TV, and scarcely believe anything I read in any media. I certainly am wary of corporate "economic reports" because they are there to manipulate - not educate, the vast majority of instances.

My children are also getting taught with the values I have, and I request that they do better than I did. They will carry this on to their children and then to theirs.

With my limited resources. I am personally becoming the solution to the best of my current ability, and spreading that to others in a positive reinforcement type of way. I find that most people these days - tend to get "hooked" on the emotional tug of the gossip of doom and gloom and never bother thinking or looking at a solution, or they've seen the "doom and gloom" scenario a thousand times and will tend not to buy it.

However, engage them first in potential solutions, and you have planted a seed ... Just a thought ;)

hi Deduk

wasn't really challenging you personally - you appear to be doing what you can.

last time i engaged in a PO discussion was likely 2-3 years ago...i gave up - pretty cold turkey.

PO for me was the first bread crumb that led me down a rabbit hole - that now i have entirely lost my way and will never make it back to where i started from.

for me i am "off-grid" - that means i don't pay utility bills (water/sewer and electric) and "own" my land (still pay property taxes). solar everything - when the batteries run out of juice i go to bed. have not owned a TV is 10 years, fast once a year for 10 days (water only) and say thank you to the sun every morning. i have no delusions about reduced footprints and consumerism or being off grid- i am as much connected to this paradigm as the next guy and frankly i think me being "off grid" is like pissing on a volcano. i drive a 15 year old tdi that get 50 miles to the gallon and buy most everything at yard sales or the good will. When i wean myself from money i will be free.

i think i have evolved from the distractions of things like PO, 911, moon landing, illuminati etc...currently and likely long-term - my focus i hope aligns with ideals of the soul, the heart and starving a beast that feeds on me. this is what is important for me.

it's good to have re-embraced some arguments of old regarding PO, but i am saddened that i don't think the collective conscious has evolved much from tired old arguments...why it's not true...why it is true...new energy sources...abiotic...if your not part of the solution you are part of the problem etc...this tells me that i probably should go back into PO retirement and get on with the real work i need to do.

i will however know that when gas is prohibitively costly - it was not a guy in a cave that caused it.

[DeDukshyn]

...

hi Deduk

wasn't really challenging you personally - you appear to be doing what you can.

last time i engaged in a PO discussion was likely 2-3 years ago...i gave up - pretty cold turkey.

PO for me was the first bread crumb that led me down a rabbit hole - that now i have entirely lost my way and will never make it back to where i started from.

for me i am "off-grid" - that means i don't pay utility bills (water/sewer and electric) and "own" my land (still pay property taxes). solar everything - when the batteries run out of juice i go to bed. have not owned a TV is 10 years, fast once a year for 10 days (water only) and say thank you to the sun every morning. i have no delusions about reduced footprints and consumerism or being off grid- i am as much connected to this paradigm as the next guy and frankly i think me being "off grid" is like pissing on a volcano. i drive a 15 year old tdi that get 50 miles to the gallon and buy most everything at yard sales or the good will. When i wean myself from money i will be free.

i think i have evolved from the distractions of things like PO, 911, moon landing, illuminati etc...currently and likely long-term - my focus i hope aligns with ideals of the soul, the heart and starving a beast that feeds on me. this is what is important for me.

it's good to have re-embraced some arguments of old regarding PO, but i am saddened that i don't think the collective conscious has evolved much from tired old arguments...why it's not true...why it is true...new energy sources...abiotic...if your not part of the solution you are part of the problem etc...this tells me that i probably should go back into PO retirement and get on with the real work i need to do.

i will however know that when gas is prohibitively costly - it was not a guy in a cave that caused it.


I hope to be pretty much where you are at within the next ~5 years, but I'll have to get out of the city and get my income sorted first.

I understand you are frustrated with the overall situation, but I might suggest your impact may be better received if presented as solutions, examples of what you have done, for your part, and how you made it work. plant seeds in people letting them know this is possible, and I am sure off-grid living can be less a chore than most would imagine, they just need to witness real life examples. Like me. before I attempted my "carless" era, I was convinced it was impossible. Now when I talk to people who say "I couldn't live without my car" or "I can't live without my phone", I say yes you can, I did it, and I feel like much more responsible person for having discovered and exercised this - you often pique peoples interest.

I am not certain your age, but I'll assume you are a little older than I; I think you would be surprised how many young people today are interested in off-grid living but aren't sure how to get there -- perhaps your audience needs to shift to be in a position to help these people be the solution they want to see? I see these types of endeavours as being quite valuable to the solution process. Can we change in time? that is the variable that determines how much suffering the transition will dish out.

I don't expect a perfectly smooth transition, but I do still believe it is possible without a major depopulation event. And if extreme "rebalancing" needs to occur to make us get this right, then it is what was needed, and thus still the solution, albeit one we will not want. :)

[feltip]

...

hi Deduk

wasn't really challenging you personally - you appear to be doing what you can.

last time i engaged in a PO discussion was likely 2-3 years ago...i gave up - pretty cold turkey.

PO for me was the first bread crumb that led me down a rabbit hole - that now i have entirely lost my way and will never make it back to where i started from.

for me i am "off-grid" - that means i don't pay utility bills (water/sewer and electric) and "own" my land (still pay property taxes). solar everything - when the batteries run out of juice i go to bed. have not owned a TV is 10 years, fast once a year for 10 days (water only) and say thank you to the sun every morning. i have no delusions about reduced footprints and consumerism or being off grid- i am as much connected to this paradigm as the next guy and frankly i think me being "off grid" is like pissing on a volcano. i drive a 15 year old tdi that get 50 miles to the gallon and buy most everything at yard sales or the good will. When i wean myself from money i will be free.

i think i have evolved from the distractions of things like PO, 911, moon landing, illuminati etc...currently and likely long-term - my focus i hope aligns with ideals of the soul, the heart and starving a beast that feeds on me. this is what is important for me.

it's good to have re-embraced some arguments of old regarding PO, but i am saddened that i don't think the collective conscious has evolved much from tired old arguments...why it's not true...why it is true...new energy sources...abiotic...if your not part of the solution you are part of the problem etc...this tells me that i probably should go back into PO retirement and get on with the real work i need to do.

i will however know that when gas is prohibitively costly - it was not a guy in a cave that caused it.


I hope to be pretty much where you are at within the next ~5 years, but I'll have to get out of the city and get my income sorted first.

I understand you are frustrated with the overall situation, but I might suggest your impact may be better received if presented as solutions, examples of what you have done, for your part, and how you made it work. plant seeds in people letting them know this is possible, and I am sure off-grid living can be less a chore than most would imagine, they just need to witness real life examples. Like me. before I attempted my "carless" era, I was convinced it was impossible. Now when I talk to people who say "I couldn't live without my car" or "I can't live without my phone", I say yes you can, I did it, and I feel like much more responsible person for having discovered and exercised this - you often pique peoples interest.

I am not certain your age, but I'll assume you are a little older than I; I think you would be surprised how many young people today are interested in off-grid living but aren't sure how to get there -- perhaps your audience needs to shift to be in a position to help these people be the solution they want to see? I see these types of endeavours as being quite valuable to the solution process. Can we change in time? that is the variable that determines how much suffering the transition will dish out.

I don't expect a perfectly smooth transition, but I do still believe it is possible without a major depopulation event. And if extreme "rebalancing" needs to occur to make us get this right, then it is what was needed, and thus still the solution, albeit one we will not want. :)

i'm nearly 50

your words are sage - and i agree with you that people do want to hear solutions and there is a certain intoxication to doom.

i live in a very small community of folk (less than 500) very remote - generally we get along - we wave at each other along the one road that cuts cross "town" (LOL).

the trick to the off grid thing is 1) high initial capital investments (batteries, panels, inverters, charge controllers etc are spendy); 2) need land that has a shallow water source; 3) an employer that allows one to work from home.

i always thought that if 3-5 people ponied up 20K each - (i know it's a lot) - they could make a run at off grid living...but again - working where one lives is key - Arco Santi north of Phoenix is such a community - i think Paolo Soleri's was on to a post PO way of life:

http://arcosanti.org/

i have some friends that are making this leap in VT from the south (yeah it's cold there!)

but again - if people acted like i have in the past 10 years the shelves would be cleared out (LOL). so i am not really sure net/net how much of a reduced footprint i have contributed.

what i can say (again) is PO took me down the rabbit hole initially - and since this "enlightenment" i have found that humans very much lie in the crosshairs of an interdimensional battle for our soul and most all of us have really no idea 1) it's even happening and 2) what's at stake. but i digress.

anyway - thanks for your thoughts and good luck.

[DeDukshyn]

...

hi Deduk

wasn't really challenging you personally - you appear to be doing what you can.

last time i engaged in a PO discussion was likely 2-3 years ago...i gave up - pretty cold turkey.

PO for me was the first bread crumb that led me down a rabbit hole - that now i have entirely lost my way and will never make it back to where i started from.

for me i am "off-grid" - that means i don't pay utility bills (water/sewer and electric) and "own" my land (still pay property taxes). solar everything - when the batteries run out of juice i go to bed. have not owned a TV is 10 years, fast once a year for 10 days (water only) and say thank you to the sun every morning. i have no delusions about reduced footprints and consumerism or being off grid- i am as much connected to this paradigm as the next guy and frankly i think me being "off grid" is like pissing on a volcano. i drive a 15 year old tdi that get 50 miles to the gallon and buy most everything at yard sales or the good will. When i wean myself from money i will be free.

i think i have evolved from the distractions of things like PO, 911, moon landing, illuminati etc...currently and likely long-term - my focus i hope aligns with ideals of the soul, the heart and starving a beast that feeds on me. this is what is important for me.

it's good to have re-embraced some arguments of old regarding PO, but i am saddened that i don't think the collective conscious has evolved much from tired old arguments...why it's not true...why it is true...new energy sources...abiotic...if your not part of the solution you are part of the problem etc...this tells me that i probably should go back into PO retirement and get on with the real work i need to do.

i will however know that when gas is prohibitively costly - it was not a guy in a cave that caused it.


I hope to be pretty much where you are at within the next ~5 years, but I'll have to get out of the city and get my income sorted first.

I understand you are frustrated with the overall situation, but I might suggest your impact may be better received if presented as solutions, examples of what you have done, for your part, and how you made it work. plant seeds in people letting them know this is possible, and I am sure off-grid living can be less a chore than most would imagine, they just need to witness real life examples. Like me. before I attempted my "carless" era, I was convinced it was impossible. Now when I talk to people who say "I couldn't live without my car" or "I can't live without my phone", I say yes you can, I did it, and I feel like much more responsible person for having discovered and exercised this - you often pique peoples interest.

I am not certain your age, but I'll assume you are a little older than I; I think you would be surprised how many young people today are interested in off-grid living but aren't sure how to get there -- perhaps your audience needs to shift to be in a position to help these people be the solution they want to see? I see these types of endeavours as being quite valuable to the solution process. Can we change in time? that is the variable that determines how much suffering the transition will dish out.

I don't expect a perfectly smooth transition, but I do still believe it is possible without a major depopulation event. And if extreme "rebalancing" needs to occur to make us get this right, then it is what was needed, and thus still the solution, albeit one we will not want. :)

i'm nearly 50

your words are sage - and i agree with you that people do want to hear solutions and there is a certain intoxication to doom.

i live in a very small community of folk (less than 500) very remote - generally we get along - we wave at each other along the one road that cuts cross "town" (LOL).

the trick to the off grid thing is 1) high initial capital investments (batteries, panels, inverters, charge controllers etc are spendy); 2) need land that has a shallow water source; 3) an employer that allows one to work from home.

i always thought that if 3-5 people ponied up 20K each - (i know it's a lot) - they could make a run at off grid living...but again - working where one lives is key - Arco Santi north of Phoenix is such a community - i think Paolo Soleri's was on to a post PO way of life:

http://arcosanti.org/

i have some friends that are making this leap in VT from the south (yeah it's cold there!)

but again - if people acted like i have in the past 10 years the shelves would be cleared out (LOL). so i am not really sure net/net how much of a reduced footprint i have contributed.

what i can say (again) is PO took me down the rabbit hole initially - and since this "enlightenment" i have found that humans very much lie in the crosshairs of an interdimensional battle for our soul and most all of us have really no idea 1) it's even happening and 2) what's at stake. but i digress.

anyway - thanks for your thoughts and good luck.

Well what can I say? This right here is what you have to contribute that has load of potential value. My suggestion, if I may, you be for you to really start some good threads on the whole off the grid thing, a little about you your motivations (we'll get your stance on OP via this ;)) and the things you have done to get to where you are, the timeframes involved, all the details. Even all the pains in the ass you have had to endured and things you'd do differently. What I'd like to see is in my lifetime is a template; an easy to follow template for starting to go "off the grid" that would be easy enough for almost anyone, that attraction would be there. I believe we should pressure government to support or at least not criminalize this initiative -- it is our right.

Yes 'm sure there's lots of stuff on the net that we could link to and perhaps a ton of threads on the subject - we even have a sub-forum for this topic, but personal inputs from someone who has done it has more value.

This initiative would support both those for and against PO, because we all know the system needs to change in one way or another regardless, therefore larger impact overall (I work with process efficiencies for a living ;))

Another 2 cents.

[toad]

The war for the arctic resources has already begun.