Genesis accounts and Gilgamesh

[nzreva]

Writings from Gilgamesh and Genesis accounts
A paragrah from Gilgamesh Tablet 1
The daughter of the warrior, the bride of the young man,
Anu listened to their complaints,
and (the gods) called out to Aruru:
"it was you, Aruru, who created mankind(?),
now create a zikru to it/him.
Let him be equal to his (Gilgamesh's) stormy heart,
let them be a match for each other so that Uruk may find peace!"
When Aruru heard this she created within herself the zikrtt of Anu.
Aruru washed her hands, she pinched off some clay, and threw it into the wilderness. Aruru without the vowels is Ru, in Hebrew Ra is evil in Hebrew language.

[link to www.ancienttexts.org]

The word Zikru or zikrtt that was created let me quote
In the wildness(?) she created valiant Enkidu,
born of Silence, endowed with strength by Ninurta.
His whole body was shaggy with hair,
he had a full head of hair like a woman,
his locks billowed in profusion like Ashnan.
He knew neither people nor settled living,
but wore a garment like Sumukan."
He ate grasses with the gazelles,
and jostled at the watering hole with the animals;
as with animals, his thirst was slaked with (mere) water.

Now look at the creation of Adam, in Gen 1:27

So God (Elohim) created (bara) Adam in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. who was a protector Shepard of the animals, he was (male) Zaker an female) Neqabah http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=1&t=KJV#s=t_conc_1027

take the vowels away from both languages since the earliest forms do not have vowels and you have NKR which ties both accounts together.....

Genesis 2 Adam was not created (bara) in the image of Elohim, but יָצַר yatsar that is formed out of adamath, nor was his job to watch over animals, but to maintain the garden http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=2&t=KJV#s=t_conc_2007......

[Davidallany]

Hi
So you are thinking that the so called Biblical Adam was actually created in another being's image other than the Biblical Elohim? Who is Yatsar?

[nzreva]

Hi
So you are thinking that the so called Biblical Adam was actually created in another being's image other than the Biblical Elohim? Who is Yatsar?

When you read male in Hebrew the Genesis 1 Adam = Zaker. In Hebrew Genesis 2 Adam is Ish. Genesis 2 Adam was not created

בָּרָא bara' he was formed = Yatsar

The point of this article is Zikru or zikrtt and Zaker without the vowels is the same word ZKR. That would be the male Genesis 1 Adam. נְקֵבָה nĕqebah being the female Adam.
Ish and Isha are the Genesis 2 Adam and they were not created they were formed.

Look at this http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=7&t=KJV&p=0#s=t_conc_7003 their were 7 pairs of birds not two, zaker and nequbah brought into the boat by Noah


Bara = created I am saying the first Adam male and femeal were not the same Adam as Genesis 2 Adam. Read Genesis 5 Genealogy That is the Adam that was created in Genesis 1 their is no Cain in this genealogy.
Look at genesis 2 http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=2&t=KJV#s=t_conc_2007

[Milneman]

Question:

How are we to know how to read Genesis? For example, many scholars, including Dr. Alvin Plantinga (one of my heros btw) suggest that one interpretation of the first part of Genesis could be read as a parable. When I do look at Genesis this way, it makes more sense to me. I'm able to adapt what Genesis is saying about human nature, and I'm also able to better reconcile the fact that this story exists in other forms, very similar, in many other systems/mythologies. Which is not to say I do not believe there is a reason why Genesis exists in the form it does.

The problem, I think, is in knowing when to read as parable and when to read as sober history. Common sense and the Holy Spirit, for me, and many Christians like me, are our best instructors in this regard.

[Davidallany]

Hi
So you are thinking that the so called Biblical Adam was actually created in another being's image other than the Biblical Elohim? Who is Yatsar?

When you read male in Hebrew the Genesis 1 Adam = Zaker. In Hebrew Genesis 2 Adam is Ish. Genesis 2 Adam was not created

בָּרָא bara' he was formed = Yatsar

The point of this article is Zikru or zikrtt and Zaker without the vowels is the same word ZKR. That would be the male Genesis 1 Adam. נְקֵבָה nĕqebah being the female Adam.
Ish and Isha are the Genesis 2 Adam and they were not created they were formed.

Look at this http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=7&t=KJV&p=0#s=t_conc_7003 their were 7 pairs of birds not two, zaker and nequbah brought into the boat by Noah


Bara = created I am saying the first Adam male and femeal were not the same Adam as Genesis 2 Adam. Read Genesis 5 Genealogy That is the Adam that was created in Genesis 1 their is no Cain in this genealogy.
Look at genesis 2 http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=2&t=KJV#s=t_conc_2007
Hi,
So you are thinking that there are discrepancies in the Bible, based on the historical record of Gilgamesh?

[nzreva]

Milneman
Sometimes you don't that is why I am putting up the Hebrew words usually in the Masoretic Text
then I go to the Greek LXX Septuagint text and cross reference the same word and look at the definitions in both languages, if their is still a problem then I give all the words that it could translate.
In the case of Genesis 1 Adam and Genesis 2 Adam there is not a problem since the Hebrew word
בָּרָא bara' = create in Genesis 1, http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=1&t=KJV#s=t_conc_1027 and
Genesis 2 Adam is "formed" is
יָצַר yatsar http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=2&t=KJV#s=t_conc_2007

[nzreva]

Hi
So you are thinking that the so called Biblical Adam was actually created in another being's image other than the Biblical Elohim? Who is Yatsar?

When you read male in Hebrew the Genesis 1 Adam = Zaker. In Hebrew Genesis 2 Adam is Ish. Genesis 2 Adam was not created

בָּרָא bara' he was formed = Yatsar

The point of this article is Zikru or zikrtt and Zaker without the vowels is the same word ZKR. That would be the male Genesis 1 Adam. נְקֵבָה nĕqebah being the female Adam.
Ish and Isha are the Genesis 2 Adam and they were not created they were formed.

Look at this http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=7&t=KJV&p=0#s=t_conc_7003 their were 7 pairs of birds not two, zaker and nequbah brought into the boat by Noah


Bara = created I am saying the first Adam male and femeal were not the same Adam as Genesis 2 Adam. Read Genesis 5 Genealogy That is the Adam that was created in Genesis 1 their is no Cain in this genealogy.
Look at genesis 2 http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=2&t=KJV#s=t_conc_2007
Hi,
So you are thinking that there are discrepancies in the Bible, based on the historical record of Gilgamesh?

No the Hebrew is plain, it is the English that is the problem.

[Ellisa]

If you accept, as I do, that the 2 earliest books of the bible are a collection of early myth, various creation stories and teachings, as well as some rules of conduct compiled by the leaders of a nomadic Bronze Age people it all starts to make more sense. The creation myth in particular has a great deal in common with the various myths already common in the area and I found nzreva's post really interesting as I had not heard it told quite like that before. The part that I find puzzling in these creation myths is that the same details are recounted world-wide, in the myths of many peoples. This could I suppose be the result of the Truth of this story, but it could also have happened as the huge emergence of homo sapiens from Africa in prehistoric times brought this, and other myths, with them as they spread all over the globe.

[nzreva]

Question:

How are we to know how to read Genesis? For example, many scholars, including Dr. Alvin Plantinga (one of my heros btw) suggest that one interpretation of the first part of Genesis could be read as a parable. When I do look at Genesis this way, it makes more sense to me. I'm able to adapt what Genesis is saying about human nature, and I'm also able to better reconcile the fact that this story exists in other forms, very similar, in many other systems/mythologies. Which is not to say I do not believe there is a reason why Genesis exists in the form it does.

The problem, I think, is in knowing when to read as parable and when to read as sober history. Common sense and the Holy Spirit, for me, and many Christians like me, are our best instructors in this regard.

PHD's with the Holy Spirit and 50 years of studying differ. Because it is a learning process. Yahoshua the name for instance is in masculine form, it mean Ya salvation, Yahshua is feminine it means salvation with the help of man or by a higher power than your self or you saving yourself. It can mean past present or future or continuing.

[Davidallany]

Hi
So you are thinking that the so called Biblical Adam was actually created in another being's image other than the Biblical Elohim? Who is Yatsar?

When you read male in Hebrew the Genesis 1 Adam = Zaker. In Hebrew Genesis 2 Adam is Ish. Genesis 2 Adam was not created

בָּרָא bara' he was formed = Yatsar

The point of this article is Zikru or zikrtt and Zaker without the vowels is the same word ZKR. That would be the male Genesis 1 Adam. נְקֵבָה nĕqebah being the female Adam.
Ish and Isha are the Genesis 2 Adam and they were not created they were formed.

Look at this http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=7&t=KJV&p=0#s=t_conc_7003 their were 7 pairs of birds not two, zaker and nequbah brought into the boat by Noah


Bara = created I am saying the first Adam male and femeal were not the same Adam as Genesis 2 Adam. Read Genesis 5 Genealogy That is the Adam that was created in Genesis 1 their is no Cain in this genealogy.
Look at genesis 2 http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=2&t=KJV#s=t_conc_2007
Hi,
So you are thinking that there are discrepancies in the Bible, based on the historical record of Gilgamesh?

No the Hebrew is plain, it is the English that is the problem.
So then why are there errors in the English Bible? What should be the solution?

[nzreva]

What I find interesting is the first Adam and the second Adam are not the same person.

[Davidallany]

What I find interesting is the first Adam and the second Adam are not the same person.
What do you make of that?

[nzreva]

When you read male in Hebrew the Genesis 1 Adam = Zaker. In Hebrew Genesis 2 Adam is Ish. Genesis 2 Adam was not created
בָּרָא bara' he was formed = Yatsar

The point of this article is Zikru or zikrtt and Zaker without the vowels is the same word ZKR. That would be the male Genesis 1 Adam. נְקֵבָה nĕqebah being the female Adam.
Ish and Isha are the Genesis 2 Adam and they were not created they were formed.

Look at this http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=7&t=KJV&p=0#s=t_conc_7003 their were 7 pairs of birds not two, zaker and nequbah brought into the boat by Noah
Bara = created I am saying the first Adam male and female were not the same Adam as Genesis 2 Adam. Read Genesis 5 Genealogy That is the Adam that was created in Genesis 1 their is no Cain or Abel in this genealogy.
Look at genesis 2 http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=2&t=KJV#s=t_conc_2007[/QUOTE]
Hi,
So you are thinking that there are discrepancies in the Bible, based on the historical record of Gilgamesh?[/QUOTE]

No the Hebrew is plain, it is the English that is the problem.[/QUOTE]
So then why are there errors in the English Bible? What should be the solution?[/QUOTE]

Because people don't learn the languages it was written in. Or learn key words that could help them make better decisions in what they believe. Its a process and it takes time.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

You guys should drop the names for a moment and focus on the Tree of Life theme being present in so many creation stories.

In the Epic of Gilgamesh, doesn't Inanna have a special tree, from which to make a holy bed for marriage, but it has become the abode of demons (lilith and anzu, powers of the air and of the unseen).

In the story of Odin, he sacrifices himself on a tree for nine days in exchange for holy runes (knowledge).

In the story of Jesus, he is killed on a cross (made from a tree!), and compares early human development to the eating of the fruits of two trees in Genesis.
One group of people choose peace (tree of life) and the other people choose destruction (knowledge of good and evil and how to take advantage of others!).

Cain and Abel is also a very interesting story, maybe even more troublesome and emotional than the story of Adam and Eve.
It is a parable similar to the story of the trees, wherein guilt and blame (and murder!) are inventions of humankind.
God does very little more than ask questions of Adam, Eve, and Cain, while their own lies and excuses damn themselves!

Also in the story of the almost God-King Nebuchanezzar, again the positive virtues of the king are compared to a fruitful and sheltering world tree.

The tree is worshiped by hundreds of cultures and is a symbol of unconditional giving and concern for life.

Although Christians don't "worship" created things, they should definitely honor a few of them aside from their own petty bodies...

[Ellisa]

There is a communality between so much of the content of the creation myths. The modelling of humans from earth is another that appears in many of them. Cain and Abel pose the question of the origin of their wives, who are clearly mentioned.

The tree is not one I have considered before, but you are so right Tesla! And there is the tree in Eden--- the tree of forbidden knowledge.

[Yetti]

I agree ! w/ U. but have you ever been read the URANTIA BOOK? I did and let me tell you ,there is very interesting information there. chaoo! Yetti.

[GreenGuy]

I agree ! w/ U. but have you ever been read the URANTIA BOOK? I did and let me tell you ,there is very interesting information there. chaoo! Yetti.

Besides the common threads that run through myths, there are some stories that stand outside that tapestry - like the Urantia Book. Reading that was pretty much my first solid clue that there really could be parallel universes, and how competing stories or explanations of universal phenomena could both be "true," and neither be factual.

[nzreva]

There is a communality between so much of the content of the creation myths. The modelling of humans from earth is another that appears in many of them. Cain and Abel pose the question of the origin of their wives, who are clearly mentioned.

The tree is not one I have considered before, but you are so right Tesla! And there is the tree in Eden--- the tree of forbidden knowledge.

Genesis 1 Adam zaker and nequbah did not have Cain and Abel, you can read that in Genesis 5 Adam had Seth first after his own image. Genesis 2 Adam was put in Eden which is in the Sumerian account. Cain and Abel had plenty of wives to pick from because the Genesis 1 Adam was here already.
The reason I am using Hebrew names is because this is a cover up. It begins to make since when you see the Adam of Genesis 1 is the elite of this world who intermarried in to the Nephilim race have always run this world. I will start a thread on Isa 14:12 and then connect it here so ya'll can see, the huge cover up that has been put into all religions. My favorite saying,
"If you don't behave as you believe you will end up believing as you behave."
I started the thread on Isa 14:12

[Milneman]

What I find interesting is the first Adam and the second Adam are not the same person.

And what's even more interesting is that human beings were created even before Adam and Eve were created.

Oh no, another stone.

[nzreva]

Tesla you said
In the story of Jesus, he is killed on a cross (made from a tree!), and compares early human development to the eating of the fruits of two trees in Genesis.
One group of people choose peace (tree of life) and the other people choose destruction (knowledge of good and evil and how to take advantage of others!).

I don't understand how you can compare the two, everyone during that time was being put to death on a stake. and to say the tree of life is peace? The tree of life is the tree of life. Adam and Eve did not choose one over the other they added the tree of knowledge of good and evil, as we do today through education, to be who we are we need to know what good and evil is to know how to choose. The YHWH Elohim took away the tree of life, that is eating no death or no dead things. Yahoshua or Jesus was the tree of life he came to give life, we are told to choose between good and evil. If we had stayed in the garden we would be as the animals are today not knowing the difference between good and evil. I don't want to be there, I want to be as Elohim knowing good and evil so I can choose good.

[Star Tsar]

I needed to familiarise myself with the Epic now You & I can!

XeDL_0Nszr0

:flood: