Crypto currency - freedom from fiat or NWO heaven?

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

What do people think?

Bitcoin: Revolutionary Game-Changer Or Trojan Horse?

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/02/bitcoin-savior-trojan-horse.html

*disclosure - I hold many quarks*

[superconsciousness]

It's a dead crypto currency walking...not that I'm against it, but it's not supported by the big banking cartels, so its days are numbered.

Welcome to the real world...

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

But what about cryptos in general?

[Dennis Leahy]

Define "fiat" currency. Then run the following 2 pieces of data through your analysis:

1.) Your country may not actually have anywhere near the amount of gold to back your own currency.

2.) The richest people on the planet stockpiled all the gold. Who do you think you are going to have to "borrow" the gold from, to have gold-backed currency in your country?


Bill Still, in his "The Secret of Oz" movie and then more directly in his book "No More National Debt" says his research indicates that the US (for example) has almost no gold. He also explains that it is not a metal backing currency that stabilizes the currency, it is the amount of currency that stabilizes currency. Isn't "Bitcoin" a fiat currency (paid for with Federal Reserve Notes) that has a specific maximum "coinage" (I heard 21 million) ?

Money created by debt (the banker's golden goose) needs to be eliminated. Nations need to print their own currency, not borrow it into existence from international bankers. Then, nations need to very strictly monitor the amount of currency, to stabilize it.

Money is just a construct. Even gold having value is just a construct, something agreed upon by all the players in the game. People need to figure out the mindset of the international bankers, figure out how NOT to give them the task of assigning what makes money "real" - of course they are going to assign something they control. The word "fiat" is a trap.

Dennis

[Robert J. Niewiadomski]

You can't "store" BTCs in physical form and it "doesn't work" without the electricity, computers and internet...

Though all around the globe there are preparations going on at the top-level for total elimination of physical cash as we know it... It can't be stopped now and i think it should not be :)

I think a global currency would be good for all and would end all "currency wars". It would also help to eliminate tax evasion if all transactions would be taxed at the start or end side of wire transfers. 10% max should be enough :)
Imagine no more tax reports or tax clerks/collectors/police costing huge amounts to maintain ;) And all that wire transfers of "black money" to buy derivatives would be taxed automatically too, helping tremendously to maintain the supporting infrastructure and finance projects improving environment and living conditions of Earth's people.

Up until financial services become totally obsolete due to spiritual developement :)

EDIT:
my favorite idea for "crypto currency" is using our personal time spent on doing something for somebody else. 1 hour of "white collar" work should equal to 1 hour of "blue collar" work imho :) The trouble is to honestly measure and present proof of that time spent doing something if nobody is watching over me except me...

[Lcam88]

Currency is merely a medium of exchange.

I was at the Smithsonian in DC about 2 years back and in one of the displays where examples of money used in early American history. The most interesting to me were exchanged in the early 1800's (or 1900's, I can't remember exactly) in California which where basically large round sea shells with "1$" painted on one side. The display had some text explaining that the shells where exchanged for services and food at several restaurants and hotels near the beachside.

The point is, fiat currency or not, the value of the currency or the precious metal that may back it, if applicable, depends only on the _believe_ of value by the agents who use the currency as part of their exchanges. As long as people continue to believe the US dollar has value, it will not collapse regardless of the abuses. Once people stop accepting US dollars have value and refuse to complete exchanges using the currency, then it will fail. The issue then becomes, what will they use instead of the dollar? A crypto-currency? How do they know a crypto-currency really has value? Why should they risk it?

To put another way, even if people are fooled into believing a currency is valuable, their belief that there is value gives it value. After all, if they are willing to contribute their productivity in exchange for it, it's undeniable that their productive effort does actually have worth.

As a theoretical exploration of an economy, it's possible to use personal IOU's for exchanges of goods and services in a community. The worth of someone's IOU would obviously depend on them accepting other people's IOU's for the fruits of their productivity which fulfills the needs in a reciprocal way between the various parties. At the end of the week, month, year these people could buy back the IOU's they issued with other people's IOU's and everyone can be satisfied that the IOU's actually have value. Obviously the problem of unproductive individuals issuing IOU's is clear. And likewise, non-productive activities should be worth less.

The circulation of a crypto-currency ultimately depends on the underpinnings of it's circulation, just like my IOU example above. Bitcoin uses US dollars and other currencies in circulation as it's underpinning. If they fail, it fails...

EDIT: ...unless people who use bitcoin believe there is value regardless what other currencies are doing.

Currency is as fragil as the belief that backs it in the hands of people who have no problems exploiting that belief for their benefits.

[superconsciousness]

Money is a medium of CONTROL...the exchange part is just a matter of convenience for us. If a currency is available to replace our managed float fiat currencies, and that currency does not foster a greater centralization of control, the currency will not be supported by those in power who want to further consolidate control over the masses. So perhaps the argument is whether those in control today have lost control over their monetary system...we'll find out soon enough.

[Lcam88]

Point taken. Really about control because winning in exchanges without control comes down to who has the more powerful army.

If a view is taken where exchanges are just a convenience, consider how the success of human beings in the wilderness is made possible largely because of our social nature. How many people do you know who are really self-sufficient? The rest of us yield control to a monetary system because we feel we are better off, stronger, and even more productive accepting the conveniences of exchanges like trade using whatever medium of exchange is in circulation. Still have a doubt? Why do economic sanctions on Iran work?

The problem with the medium of exchange is not if or how it controls, and not even necessarily the parties who participate in exchanges, but those who manipulate the system for their benefit in a way that compromises it.

[pyriel]

Crypto currency will just disappear or will be controlled by those that control most of the different forms of money in the world now.

Personally i think bitcoins is nothing more then a testing of digital currency to see if people will accept it or not and well... doesnt seem to be liked, known or whatever by most people so it'll likely disappear.

[Tesseract]

Every transaction in bitcoin is recorded, that bothers me. Further, when I set up an account to buy/sell bitcoin I was not able to do it anonymously, the use of Tor was even forbidden. That is not necessarily botcoin's fault, but if I buy bitcoin from there and spend it, it is all recorded and ultimately traceable to me. No idea how easy or hard that would be in practice. If I could buy bitcoin on a USB key at a kiosk, then that would make me feel safer. I do sometimes wonder if bitoin wasn't created by the US government.

All the talk about inherent 'mathematical' value is even bigger bs than Fiat paper. Incidentally Fiat has many advantages, which is why governments use it. In the same way, bitcoin has advantages, which is why people use it. Once the service value goes away, or is superseded, bitcoin will become worthless.

[sigma6]

There is no centralized control. Bitcoin currency is to internet commerce what the internet is to controlled media. What open source is to Bill Gates (trying to siphon trillions over the last 30 years before we can finally have a decent computer, W7 should have come out in 2000!)

It is here to stay (unless we run out of electricity...) It fills a real need in the internet space. It has practical utility. They are doing the same thing to it, they did to MP3 when it came out... The sky is going to fall because there isn't a monopolist controlling it for the "benefit" of humanity (wha??? ...why do we need that monopolist controlling it again... ??? .... oh yeah the sky is going to fall!... aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! )

Society has to come out from the illusion that we need a parasitical government siphoning off 50% of the gross national product just to tell you you can't park your car in the wrong spot, or how to separate your garbage. WAKE UP PEOPLE... Government is an illusion. The reality is the parasite, draining society of our standard of living, health, freedom, and our right to live in peace and security.

Terrorists are funded by Governments, making drugs illegal, and illegal drug trades are specifically to FUND organized crime. And all organized crime associated with it is operated and funding the same Governments that created the same laws. The government is nothing more then a tool for the rich to manipulate all the poor into giving them half their wages. How else did you think they got so rich? Did you actually think they worked 10,000 times harder then you did ??????????

TIME TO WAKE UP.....
DECENTRALIZATION IS GOOD!!!
CENTRALIZATION IS EVIL!!!!

(now say it 10 times each night before you go to sleep for the rest of your life, or until it sinks in...)

My only regret is not seeing it four years ago... that's reality.

[Robert J. Niewiadomski]

sigma6, the idea of central government is not a problem. The problem is WHO gets into the government posts. If it is service-to-others type of humans then you can expect good things as a result of their decisions. Question: how do you get service-to-others people into the government?

In most cases government posts are filled with service-to-self individuals. It shows in a way they fulfill their "public duty"... Detachment, secrecy, empty promises, paranoia, corruption, using the system to their own personal advantage or against their personal enemies etc. It's not because of general idea of the government. It's because of THEIRS idea how to govern and the trust they had been given by "We The People". The trust they cheerfully abuse. Honest person would never do that. If forced or blackmailed into playing bad they would rather promptly quit their post than play along.

Can you imagine how it would look if a service-to-others people would ran governments?. You may say it's impossible. I say: everything is possible. You just need to let yourself believe it's possible. And it will :)

Just my $0.02

[Robert J. Niewiadomski]

Back to topic. This was posted today on NewScientist: SolarCoin cryptocurrency pays you to go green
Source: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25010-solarcoin-cryptocurrency-pays-you-to-go-green.html

A new cryptocurrency with a solar-powered twist could be just the incentive we need to make the shift to clean energy. While most cryptocurrencies are just themed copies of Bitcoin – Dogecoin (http://dogecoin.com/), based on a famous internet meme, is a notable example – SolarCoins (http://solarcoin.org/)are a bit harder to earn.

SolarCoin is based on Bitcoin technology (http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22129553.700-bitcoin-how-its-core-technology-will-change-the-world.html), but in addition to the usual way of generating coins through mining, crunching numbers to try and solve a cryptographic puzzle, people can earn them as a reward for generating solar energy.

People with solar panels on their house will receive solar renewable energy certificates from their energy company in return for feeding a megawatt-hour of electricity back into the grid. These certificates are already traded for cash (http://www.flettexchange.com/), but present one to SolarCoin's organisers and you'll receive one coin – they expect to start distribution in a matter of weeks.(...)An ENERGY backed BitCoin! Wow! It's not "believe" money anymore that way. It has real value in the form of mega watts hours :)

But there is something fishy in this too... Who will control the legitimacy of those "energy certificates"? They can be printed at will just as "ordinary money" is... Giving such authority to "energy companies" will enslave us to them even more...

[risveglio]

If you keep asking who will control the money, you are still thinking about money the way TPTB want you to think of money. You need to learn more about money.

http://mises.org/money.asp

http://mises.org/books/whathasgovernmentdone.pdf

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Bitcoin has been under severe attack now for 3 days from both hackers and bankers.

http://www.euronews.com/2014/02/12/bitcoin-under-pressure-from-hackers-and-regulators/


More problems for bitcoin. The virtual currency is under attack from computer hackers, even as various governments consider clamping down on it.

Its main trade organisation – the Bitcoin Foundation – says unknown hackers are sending “mutated” lines of computer code into the programme that runs Bitcoin.

“This is a denial-of-service attack,” said the spokeswoman, Jinyoung Lee Englund. “Whoever is doing this is not stealing coins, but is succeeding in preventing some transactions from confirming. It’s important to note that DoS attacks do not affect people’s bitcoin wallets or funds.”

As a result some transactions have been blocked.

A major Japanese bitcoin exchange, Mt. Gox, and one based in Slovenia, Bitstamp, have halted customer withdrawals.

At one stage this week the always volatile virtual currency’s value fell to its lowest in nearly two months.

The website Coindesk.com had it at around $650 dollar on Wednesday, that is down $300 from the first week in January.

Others have different rates, with dramatic variations from one exchange to another.

Glad I sold mine for Quark coins. Much more secure with 9 rounds of hashing and 6 layers of security as well as confirmation time being only about 40 seconds compared with bitoins 1 hour!

Bill Still:

"Something big is in the works for Quarkcoin"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjJD54lGT4c


Quark info for anyone interested...

http://www.quarkcoins.com/

http://quark.freeforums.net/

http://www.reddit.com/r/QuarkCoin