Karma and Reincarnation

[christian]

Walked past a sign saying "topic of the night: karma and reincarnation" at the Theosophic Society in Philly last night, so I went in. Turned out I was there to teach some where their books left them alone...

:bathbaby:

1. Yes, karma means everything you do will have consequences for you. But: Not everything that happens to you is your karma, it can just be other people's free will decisions, that's another universal law besides the law of karma; free will of self-aware beings. When people do something to you, they will have to deal with the consequences of their actions, that's their karma. Your karma then is how you respond to their actions.

2. Move on from the assumption that "being selfless" is the good way for a person to evolve. Wanting to evolve is inherently selfish! The point is: Be selfish, but not at the expense of others! Then you'll empower yourself and inspire others who observe you to empower themselves, too. After all, that's what it's all about; it's a do-it-yourself universe.

Bottom line: Keep it common sense simple, learn to juggle with more than one idea at a time, be your own person and think for yourself...

[Observer1964]

Your karma then is how you respond to their actions.
well as long as we treat others as we want to be treated I think its ok.

[Marianne]

Thanks for that clear-headed explanation, Christian.


The point is: Be selfish, but not at the expense of others!

This is where I get lost. It's tricky finding the line where my actions don't hurt someone else as I'm being selfish and trying to evolve.

It's something that takes a lot of pondering for me.

Any thoughts on this?

[sdv]

Thanks christian for this somewhat more realistic view of the causal/karmic nature of the universe.

However, I would take it further and say that a plethora of beings all acting on free will, and also being open to control and manipulation and the seduction of power, whether expressed with money or any kind of destructive weapons, and the ability of some to accumulate and use power means that we can accidentally or deliberately not immediately, or perhaps not at all, experience the ''bad'' consequences of ''bad'' actions. If we do so in the spirit world or in another incarnation is unproven to me (my own recall of lifetimes does not reveal a pattern of circumstances in a life being chosen to balance karma accumulated in a previous lifetime, but rather a choice to experience something that interested me or appealed to me, and the only connection between lifetimes that I can see is about furthering an experience from one lifetime in another in a changing world ... e.g. as a girl I was reading round about 1500, so in this lifetime I worked in book publishing and am trying to transform myself into a writer who can earn a living through my craft; round about 1400 I was a herbalist, so in this lifetime I choose to treat myself with ''alternative'' remedies rather than go to a doctor and ask for medicine). Perhaps there has been some kind of karmic replaying for ''advancement'' (e.g. in the lifetime before this one, unless there was something in between I have not remembered, I was a cripple and it was my right leg that was damaged, probably from polio, but my choice for that lifetime was not to experience being a cripple but to experience the new experience of urbanisation among humans; in this lifetime my right leg was severely damaged in a car accident in my twenties, but I am more active than anyone I know even though I have a crooked leg ... I spend more time walking every day than the average person does and have built up muscles to compensate for my ''cripple'' leg).

Recently I wrote down what I remembered from each lifetime and the choice for each seemed to be a choice to have new experiences as humanity changed, and any connections between lifetiimes seem to be a connection rather than a karmic balancing. What was a prominent theme in one lifetime seems to carry over in some form to another, but never in a life-defining way. (By the way, as a cripple child, I did not experience being cripple as suffering because I had no memory of any other way of being and what I did experience was that most people were kind to me, even though I was an ''orphan'' living in a slum in a growing city and used to steal, mostly for food, all the time ... thank goodness I died at the age of ten, otherwise I might have become a master criminal!)

I think that many ''new age'' gurus oversimplify the karmic nature of the universe and overlook the complexity of billions (including ALL living creatures on Earth and beyond) of sentient beings interacting and colliding with each other and all exercising control, manipulation, choices, awareness, will, power, and so on to some degree. Money and political power are significant in our present lifetime, and neither discriminate. If a ''good guy'', like the supposed Jesus or Buddah, accumulates power, empathy and compassion grow. If ''bad guys'', like Hitler and so many present here on Earth now, accumulate power, suffering, exploitation and ruthlessness grow. (By the way, genocide has happened over and over again since the holocaust and there are places in the world where it is happening now or about to happen ... I live in a place where I am part of a group that is at risk of being ''victims'' of genocide, which often builds up slowly and clearly, but is ignored until it is too late. So, there seems to be no balancing of karma from the Hitler experience! Yes, I know karmic retribution adherents will find a way to explain this, but it doesn't work for me. I had a lifetime where my foolish actions cause suffering to those I loved, and for them to reincarnate and cause suffering to me to balance out karma is ridiculous to me. After I died, I saw the suffering my actions caused, and those who caused that suffering would never want to inflict that on others. I have experienced suffering in this lifetime that I would never want to inflict on others ... I rather would want to have the power to prevent such suffering.

So, ''new age'' theories of karma do not work for me ... if I have experienced suffering from the actions from others, I would never want to inflict such suffering on others and would want power to prevent such suffering. So, I can and could never support the karmic motto of ''what goes around comes around''.

[Lifebringer]

I find when I tell them, that I've given all time to everyone freely, and they're either gonna allow me mine, or i'll take it without their permission. If they intentionally ignore my meditation days, then I politely tell them to put on some head phones, or I do it myself. Either way, no one is stopping me from being me, anymore in my life.

If they can't let me be me, then who is being selfish?

[sheme]

Karma is always positive eventually.

Negative karma will only happen to those that feel guilt -therefore they attract negative Karma.

Positive karma only happens when we allow it to, when we have no guilt .

The exchange is Knowledge, as it opens up opportunities for evolution, so knowledge also opens opportunities for feelings of guilt.

Knowledge is the original sin.

Take what ever the universe gifts you without guilt.



For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.

[Dawn]

This topic is interesting and I used to 'buy into it' hook line and sinker. However lately I've found myself questioning these beliefs. I know that I have been programmed with (mostly) untrue information by the education system, by my parents (who were victims of false programming themselves), by movies, TV, and even by hidden signals coming from satellites and other 'black op' toys. So, my question is .... is even the idea of karma and reincarnation a truth? And if these have a basis in truth... then how have these truths been twisted and bent when taught to us?

What has become a reality to me is that 'it is all one'. I used to think that when I eventually came to the place where I experienced the 'oneness of all things' this would be an exalted place of awareness. Instead I find it extremely painful... like having no skin what-so-ever. I literally experience all and everything around me. So if the people around me in my community are filled with fear then... guess what? .... I experience this directly. It is very difficult for me to separate out what is coming from 'within me' and what is coming from 'outside of me'.

So, with this direct understanding how would karma play out.... I is very simple... since I am everything then anything I do or think has an effect on me... and everything is me. This puts karma in a whole new light. What is really going on is that there is no one else out there for me to 'harm or hurt'. Any harm or hurt I cause is to myself. And this settles my moral behavior in ways that no amount of programmed thinking can. This sets my moral compass in a permanent way. I am no longer 'at war' with 'others' because there really are not any 'others'.

Still... there is a small animal like (child like) personality which lives 'within me' and I do protect her from any damaging 'others' which mean her harm. It is my commitment to her that she comes first. I keep this commitment to her in order to gain her trust and her presence. For years I did not realize she was even there and I focused on taking care to be loving to the 'others' outside of me. When I finally realized she was there it took a long time to gain her forgiveness and trust. So, in a world where things appear separate from me, I am developing an inner separateness. This inner being is fragile, childlike, and the most wonderful companion when she feels happy and safe. It is through her eyes and the way she experiences the world that I gain a sense of wonder and delight. Without her these experiences vanish and the world seems dull and gray.

As far as reincarnation... well, if you check out Simon Parks disclosures here on Avalon you might be surprised at what you learn.

[christian]

Your karma then is how you respond to their actions.
well as long as we treat others as we want to be treated I think its ok.

What about masochists? :wink:


It's tricky finding the line where my actions don't hurt someone else as I'm being selfish and trying to evolve.

It's something that takes a lot of pondering for me.

Any thoughts on this?

I think the measuring tool for that is just one's own discernment. Nobody can decide that for you, really. I think whether or not you are hurting someone with your actions or whether a person just feels hurt (because of his or her own unprocessed issues) depends upon so many factors that finding the line must be an intuitive assessment.

That's why more important than having the correct answer is to take the responsibility in general to sincerely consider that question in the first place, i.e. being truly on the way and not being eaten up by whether or not this or that step is the absolute shortest way to enlightenment or not. I believe that worse than not shooting perfectly is not giving it my best shot at all.


So, ''new age'' theories of karma do not work for me ... if I have experienced suffering from the actions from others, I would never want to inflict such suffering on others and would want power to prevent such suffering. So, I can and could never support the karmic motto of ''what goes around comes around''.

I think it's both happening, karma as an attitude that is present in many lifetimes, but there's also karmic balancing. I have seen many cases, for example, where people who killed someone would be the parent in a later life to make good for that. The reason, I believe, is that destructive deeds do negatively affect one's own energy, soul, aura, whatever you wanna call it. It pulls oneself down in the soup of energy that we're in, it takes away from the creative life force that flows through us. At some point, the being will realize that and desire to step into a more desirable state of being, therefore it will do things that will help to release the negative old charges, to change the programming, if you will. This is all done not because some higher being demands it, but simply because it really does feel good.


I find when I tell them, that I've given all time to everyone freely, and they're either gonna allow me mine, or i'll take it without their permission. If they intentionally ignore my meditation days, then I politely tell them to put on some head phones, or I do it myself.

I don't know who you're talking about that you'd put headphones over their ears. But maybe I get the idea... If you wanna meditate in silence, find yourself a quiet place or one with people who are considerate. I mean, the world is big but full of people. As long as people are not purposefully following you to harass you, I think it's all under people just being themselves, and, like you say, gotta let everyone be.


Negative karma will only happen to those that feel guilt

Common sense tells me that when I act like a raging criminal, sooner or later people will come after me—that's karma in action, regardless of the guilt that I feel or not feel. Anyways, I think it's more compassion than guilt that moves people to make amends after they hurt someone...

[Joe Akulis]

So, ''new age'' theories of karma do not work for me ... if I have experienced suffering from the actions from others, I would never want to inflict such suffering on others and would want power to prevent such suffering. So, I can and could never support the karmic motto of ''what goes around comes around''.

So, you are forgiving the person whose actions caused you to suffer.

But, nowhere in your studies of new age karma theories did you read about forgiveness?

I'm of a mind that the ones who are unable to forgive, they are going to keep that wheel of karma spinning around and around. But, I could be misinformed.

[naste.de.lumina]

Dear friends.

I spent a lot of time thinking, reading, studying and analyzing the matter Karma.
Currently (can change) think so.

Thought generates emotional feeling, which may or not may become a physical action.

When you mug a person, you record the karma on you (in your energetic field).
You will attract electromagnetism via an energy at the same frequency.
But not necessarily the same person who was assaulted. This goes for thought or action.
The person who suffered their aggression, may have two distinct reactions.
React the same way and so is recording the Karma of this reaction in itself, or simply reveal (have to get even in thought), thus not generated any karma for her.

In short, what you do to another person is marked on you.
And you will attract similar situations based on this frequency, regardless of who is the source of it.

I do not know if I made myself clear.

Hug.

Naste.

[naste.de.lumina]

Below is a link to a text that I posted about Karma on another topic.
May help to clarify some doubts.

Reconciling Karmic Theory - the Karmic Equation (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?67375-Karmic-Transference-Does-anyone-have-more-info-on-this-subject&p=784127&viewfull=1#post784127)

[christian]

Move on from the assumption that "being selfless" is the good way for a person to evolve. Wanting to evolve is inherently selfish! The point is: Be selfish, but not at the expense of others! Then you'll empower yourself and inspire others who observe you to empower themselves, too. After all, that's what it's all about; it's a do-it-yourself universe.

SYeNeDPrkQk