Serpent-Handling Pastor Killed by Snake: Where Was God?

[Skywizard]

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/rattlesnake-670.jpg:bolt:
A snake-handling preacher who survived nine previous bites succumbed to his final,
fatal bite in Kentucky over the weekend.


As CNN reported, Jamie Coots, a Pentecostal believer who stars in a reality show, "Snake Salvation," died Saturday evening. CNN said Coots believed that a passage in the Bible suggests poisonous snakebites will not harm believers as long as they are anointed by God.

Evangelical preachers like Coots not only handle venomous snakes but also engage in other dangerous activities such as drinking poison. They base their faith on Biblical verses in Mark 16: "And these signs will follow those who believe: in My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover."

Pastor Coots and his followers are Biblical literalists, believing that each and every word in the Bible is the true and inerrant word of God. This is a position that Bill Nye "The Science Guy" took creationist Ken Ham to task about during their debate last month, when Nye described the Bible as "verses translated into English over 30 centuries."

Even assuming that God wrote the Bible through men, all that copying and translating, Nye noted, leaves many opportunity for errors to creep into the verses. Thus the Mark 16 reference to snakes may simply be a metaphor, part of a well-known tradition of depicting Satan or evil in the form of serpents. Many evangelicals, however, take it literally.

The premise behind snake handling is to demonstrate their faith, both to themselves and as an inspiration to others, by doing something dangerous. It just happens to be serpents because of a bible passage, but in theory the same ritual role could be fulfilled by drunk bullfighting or playing Russian roulette.

Seeking medical attention for a snake bite is seen as a lack of faith in God's ability to heal, a belief that can also be found in other religions including Christian Scientists and Scientologists. In many cases children have even died because their devout parents refused to take them to a doctor.

Coots, though well-known because of his high-profile status on a popular television show, is far from alone in this practice. Though not common (and in fact illegal in many places), snake handling at evangelical events occurs on a regular basis. It's not clear how many people have died from it -- since official numbers are not kept and only high-profile deaths such as Coots are likely to make the news -- but the victims likely number in the hundreds.

The No-Lose Psychology of Salvation

Many wonder what effect Coots's death will have on his followers. The most likely answer, surprisingly, is none.

Their religious belief is what in logic is called non-falsifiable; that is, it can't be proven wrong or false. No matter the outcome of snake handling, it's God's will: if he gets bitten and dies, it's fine because God called him home and it was his time to pass, and if he doesn't get bit (or survives the bite) it's because God protected him. It's framed as a win-win situation, so no matter the outcome it reinforces their religious beliefs.

In fact it would be more surprising if Coots's followers' faith was shaken: After all, the whole point of serpent handling is about affirmation of faith; for them to lose faith because of what happened to him would be the ultimate betrayal.

It's not clear whether Jamie Coots's son, Little Cody, will keep up the snake-handling tradition that killed his father, but it seems likely. In 2012 another well-known Pentecostal serpent handler, Mack Wolford, was killed in his West Virginia church after being fatally bitten by one of his snakes. Wolford's father was also a snake handler, and he, also, was killed by a snake in 1983.

Many greeted this news incredulously: Didn't he learn a lesson from this? The answer is that of course he did; he just learned a lesson that's different than most non-Evangelicals would take from this tragedy. Not that God wanted Wolford to die -- and surely not that God doesn't exist and left Wolford to his own devices when handling venomous snakes -- but instead that Wolford's faith was rewarded in heaven.

While some have found dark humor in the irony of Coots's death, the fact is that religious beliefs, like all other beliefs, have consequences. Coots, like religious zealots of all stripes, was willing to stake his life on the power of his faith, and he did.


Source: http://news.discovery.com/human/psychology/serpent-handling-pastor-killed-by-snake-where-was-god-140218.htm


peace...
skywizard

[GreenGuy]

There's an old story about a traveling gospel band that played at a small church out in the country. After some singing and some preaching, the preacher and the deacons walked over to some wooden boxes and started taking out some huge rattlesnakes. The bandleader turned to the woman next to him and whispered, "Sister, where's the back door?"

"They ain't one," she whispered back.

"Reckon where would they like one?" said the bandleader.

I have never known God to be big on protecting us from our own follies.

[pugwash84]

touch fire - get burned, handle a snake - get bit.... just the way the world works. xxxxx

[superconsciousness]

Note to self: avoid fire and snakes...

[ghostrider]

reminds me of a story a heard , a man walking in the snow comes across a frozen snake ... takes it home and places it next to the fireplace ... it thaws and the man is glad it's alive , then the snake bit him ... he said , why did you do that ??? The snake replied , ehummm you knew I was a snake ...

[jagman]

One day a man takes off hiking on a mountain. About three quarters of the way up
the mountain he encounters a snake that is frozen but still alive. The snake speaks
to the man "Please take me down off this mountain or I will freeze to death, I promise
I will not bite you." The mountaineer shakes his head and says " You will bite me if
I take you down the mountain." The snake repeats his plea " Please oh Please take
me off this mountain if you do not I will surely perish!" The mountaineer reluctantly
agrees because he does not want to see a living creature perish. He grabs the snake
and heads down the mountain. When he comes to a warm area he reaches into his pocket
and sets the snake on the ground. At that moment the snake reaches up and strikes the
mans hand. The mountaineer jumps up and down with pain He says to the snake "You
promised me you wouldn't bite me if I carried you down from the mountain!"
The snake looked up at him and grinned, "You knew what I was when you picked me up.

[araucaria]

The art historian Aby Warburg studied the Hopi Indians’ rainmaking ceremony, which involves large numbers of snakes.


Here the dancers and the live animal form a magical unity, and the surprising thing is that the Indians have found in these dance ceremonies a way of handling the most dangerous of all animals, the rattlesnake, so that it can be tamed without violence, so that the creature will participate willingly—or at least without making use of its aggressive abilities, unless provoked—in ceremonies lasting for days. This would surely lead to catastrophe in the hands of Europeans

Commenting on a drawing made for him by one of the Hopi, he says:


The 4 rings signify that whoever approaches the serpent and does not tell the truth, drops dead before one can count to 4

This would tend to confirm the common sense idea that a preacher who is killed by the snake that he claims is harmless was preaching BS, which is first and foremost fatal to that person. But why anyone would play around with poisonous snakes in the first place? Here is his explanation:


For the snake is not only, as Cushing’s Indians would say, the fatal bite in readiness or fulfilment, destroying without mercy; the snake also reveals by its own ability to cast off its slough, slipping, as it were, out of its own mortal remains, how a body can leave its skin and yet continue to live. It can slither into the earth and re-emerge. The return from within the earth, from where the dead rest, along with the capacity for bodily renewal, makes the snake the most natural symbol of immortality and of rebirth from sickness and mortal anguish.

[GreenGuy]

They're creating a theology based on a couple lines of scripture, taken out of context. I looked it up. In his last appearance to the disciples before floating up to the sky, Jesus said they would handle serpents, drink poison and other things that most folks consider self-destructive, and nothing would harm them. I have not noticed churches that drink poison or step in front of trucks....

[DeDukshyn]

God got pissed he was playing with the "enemy" ;)

[Nasu]

Or another crazy idea, God never wrote the bible at all, he was far too busy, so he delegated it to man, along with the rest of the planet... Let's hope he hasn't heard how it all turned out.... N

[Akasha]

Where was God? Well, considering the verse:


You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.....

Deuteronomy 6:16

.....maybe he was just in the mood to meet out some divine justice.....or..... maybe it was nothing to do with Mr. G. (or the late J.C). Maybe, just maybe, it was just the cold, hard edge of Darwinian evolution in effect.

For some reason I just can't get this Bill Hicks quote out of my head:


He’s a moron, he’s dead—good! We lost a moron. F****n’ celebrate! Wow, I just felt the world get lighter. We lost a moron! I don’t mean to sound cold, or cruel, or vicious, but I am, so that’s the way it comes out. Professional help is being sought.

Bill Hicks

[Karezza]

Holy Ghost People (2014)

As I watched the film 'Holy Ghost People' (a movie of a serpent handling Pastor, I wondered the likelihood for these scenarios to take place. I guess fiction meets fact.


On the trail of her missing sister, Charlotte enlists the help of Wayne, an ex-Marine and alcoholic, to infiltrate the Church of One Accord - a community of snake-handlers who risk their lives seeking salvation in the Holy Ghost.


_NFpyMiW2is

[Operator]

reminds me of a story a heard , a man walking in the snow comes across a frozen snake ... takes it home and places it next to the fireplace ... it thaws and the man is glad it's alive , then the snake bit him ... he said , why did you do that ??? The snake replied , ehummm you knew I was a snake ...


One day a man takes off hiking on a mountain. About three quarters of the way up
the mountain he encounters a snake that is frozen but still alive. The snake speaks
to the man "Please take me down off this mountain or I will freeze to death, I promise
I will not bite you." The mountaineer shakes his head and says " You will bite me if
I take you down the mountain." The snake repeats his plea " Please oh Please take
me off this mountain if you do not I will surely perish!" The mountaineer reluctantly
agrees because he does not want to see a living creature perish. He grabs the snake
and heads down the mountain. When he comes to a warm area he reaches into his pocket
and sets the snake on the ground. At that moment the snake reaches up and strikes the
mans hand. The mountaineer jumps up and down with pain He says to the snake "You
promised me you wouldn't bite me if I carried you down from the mountain!"
The snake looked up at him and grinned, "You knew what I was when you picked me up.

Ok, since we're into snake jokes ...

Two venomous snakes are busy munching their meal, then one looked at the other ..
Why are you looking so sad? ... Reply: I bit on my lip

[Skywizard]

Two venomous snakes are busy munching their meal, then one looked at the other ..
Why are you looking so sad? ... Reply: I bit on my lip


Heard the same joke Operator but the reply was... I just bit my tongue! Both are funny :)


peace...

[GreenGuy]

It's such a con anyway. Most rattlesnakes aren't particularly aggressive. Water moccasins are another story, and some of those guys will even handle them. But rattlers are usually fairly retiring. They'll bite, but they'd rather be left alone. So what these snake-handlers are doing is actually not as dangerous as it looks. Handling serpents happens to be the least stupid and dangerous behavior out of several, mentioned by Jesus in Mark (with a parallel verse in Luke). In theory, we could have churches that step in front of trains or drink poison. (I know of two that drank poison. Those denominations don't seem to have caught on).

[Carmody]

Pastor Coots and his followers are Biblical literalists, believing that each and every word in the Bible is the true and inerrant word of God. This is a position that Bill Nye "The Science Guy" took creationist Ken Ham to task about during their debate last month, when Nye described the Bible as "verses translated into English over 30 centuries."

Besides the errant translation, translation based on the social mores of the particular and specific translation.....there is the small matter of over 1400 known edits.

[jagman]

Carmody,"there is the small matter of over 1400 known edits."
You forgot to factor the dead sea scrolls Carmody.

[gripreaper]

He probably just wasn't doing it right.

http://www.picsgag.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/snake-man-snake-kiss.jpg

[Anchor]

> Where Was God?

Respecting free will as always ;)

[Observer1964]

> Where Was God?

Respecting free will as always ;)

Absolutly true...

He also does not punish you if you hit yourself with a hammer on your fingers for your clumsyness. It is just your clumsyness that made it happen.

[Milneman]

Carmody,"there is the small matter of over 1400 known edits."
You forgot to factor the dead sea scrolls Carmody.

I wonder if the snake read the bible....

[Roisin]

Appalachia tags:
snake handlers, shot-gun marriages, sin-eaters, mountain witch, moon-shine, fiddles, banjo's, dulcimer's, possum soup, harp singings,corn pipes, granny women, folk remedies, holler dwellers, country wakes, covered mirrors, superstitions, arranged marriages, family feuds, kiss'n cousins,mountain magic, dolly parton, birth'n babies, wee folk, quilting, traveling preacher, faith healers, tent crusades etc....

Note: add more if you know of any.

[blufire]

Appalachia tags:
snake handlers, shot-gun marriages, sin-eaters, mountain witch, moon-shine, fiddles, banjo's, dulcimer's, possum soup, harp singings,corn pipes, granny women, folk remedies, holler dwellers, country wakes, covered mirrors, superstitions, arranged marriages, family feuds, kiss'n cousins,mountain magic, dolly parton, birth'n babies, wee folk, quilting, traveling preacher, faith healers, tent crusades etc....

Note: add more if you know of any.

I am 100% Appalachia bred, born and raised . . . . if you truly want to know about Appalachian Highlanders and which of these stigmas are accurate and which are ignorant fallacies I would be one to ask.

[Roisin]

My mom's side of the family is Appalachia too. I love the traditions and am fascinated by them.

I'm proud of my Appalachia heritage!

[blufire]

I have a very unique perspective on this topic of snake handlers because I have been to their churches. Specifically, I have been to the church in La Follette, Tennessee that is the other highlighted in ‘Snake Salvation’, although it was about 30 years ago. I went as an observer and during a time I was going to many churches to try to understand what religion was all about.

I have personally witnessed and experienced the intense fervor and ecstatic state these believers enter into before they begin to handle the snakes, drink poison and hold fire to their skin.

I have been to the revivals where the church is so packed that when the snakes are released into the congregation all I could do was pray that all of them were picked up before they got back to me and that no one near me picked one up because there was no way I could get out of the building.

I have been to the church services and witnessed a very old women hold a burning candle under her chin with the flame clearly on her skin and not be burned as she rocked back and forth and “prayed” in a foreign tongue and her interpreter translating what she was saying.

Likewise I have been in the jungles of Belize and Guatemala and attended Ayahuasca rituals where people willingly drink the tea that could very well kill them . . . . poison. But because they are in the very same state of ecstasy and religious fervor they were not harmed, but instead seemed to receive a deeply intense spiritual experience.

There is no difference.

The scripture in Mark 16:9-20 that speaks of handling snakes, drinking poison, speaking in tongues, driving out demons and healing the sick by placing hands on them, is not in the earliest Greek manuscripts but were found among the writings of the Dead Sea Scrolls. But the scripture was included.

These ‘signs of the believers’ are not just seen in snake handling churches or other Christian churches but in ALL believers of a higher power and those who desire to find the god within them or to enter a god-like state or to become more enlightened or conscious.

Whether you are New Age who channels other ‘spiritually higher beings’, use entheogens (mushrooms, dmt, other drugs) or shaman in jungles who ingest Ayahuasca even those who choose to conform to extreme diets (raw food/vegan) or snake handlers . . . . we are all driven to find ‘god’ or to become more ‘god-like’ or reach a ‘higher conscous’.

What I find so ironic is that clearly most do not understand that the depth of ‘state of mind’ they desire to become in touch with is their reptilian nature. That part of we humans is deeply buried or ‘bound’ during this era or millennia . . . our mammalian nature is our more conscious state at this time but we are unconsciously aware of our reptilian nature and have the innate desire to bring it to our more conscious being.

Our task at hand and what we a constantly driven to do, is to meld these two parts, mammalian and reptilian (dualism or the two intertwining stands of our DNA) into one conscious aware human being. And we seem to be ever inept and ignorant in achieving this one very elusive truth.

[Roisin]

Believe me, I understand the depth of their feelings at those crusades and revivals and have been to one with a snake handler too.

They work themselves up into a real frenzy. I've seen that and I see the same kinda thing in those Pentecostal non-denominational Christian Church's My mom converted to Catholicism when she married my dad but she eventually went back to her roots. So I've tagged along with her to those places sometimes up north and in the mountains of West Virginia too.

I've never seen that candle thing you are talking about but as for speaking in tongues ... yes. That's all just part of it.