Current situation in Ukraine - a warning.

[miqeel]

aLx7RRGiNLg


I wish that we all understand that the situation in Ukraine as it happens now, will be similar to what may happen if the so called "Social and Economic Unrest" happens in US or Western Europe. There, we now see the "Social" one.

I looking at this, know that this is not what I want to happen, and so I only focus on the peaceful solution of our problems..

[Poly Hedra]

Surprised this is the first thread??
I've been following closely whats happening and feeling very sad, upset and crying looking at the videos of people fighting against the government.

Then there are people saying its because of so many reasons they are protesting, like an american coup, apparently said by Alex Jones.
But these people on the streets dont feel that I'm sure.
My opinion is that they are basically sick of the corruption, same as the occupy movement and anonymous....

I also think this is a perfect example of what any so called western country could expect from their governments if it kicked off anywhere else.
Lets face it, they are all corrupt gangsters all over the world because the whole system is corrupt.
What do you think?

[Wind]

7eTuFAR169s

These protests are now happening all over the world... Ukraine, Thailand, Venezuela etc, I suspect during these "intense" times people are starting to unconsciously sense that something isn't right and this is how the excess energy is being channelled. Personally I don't advocate violence at all, but then again the corruption... Good riddance.

[Poly Hedra]

Yes, so far in the last few months there have been protests and clashes in Venezeula,
Bosnia: XtHa6A1wxoI
Brazil: 2meFNeBC80c
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Montenegro: DuSiQhjnrMQ
and UKraine.
Obviously I dont agree with violence too. The way I see it is that the people are reacting like a child/teenager who is pissed off yet have no idea how to use this anger.
This protest has been going on since Dec, its only recently this has become violent.

I really hope this is a sign of people waking up all over the world.

[Cardillac]

here's another take on the unrest in the Ukraine:

http://www.blacklistednews.com/American_and_Israeli_Zionists_Behind_Civil_Unrest_In_The_Ukraine/32995/0/5/5/Y/M.html

the same type of unrest seems to be happening in Bangkok; I wonder if both "unrests" have the same financial backing...

Larry

[Poly Hedra]

So do you think this is an engineered protest in Ukraine?
Paid protestors?
I would like to see this information - not saying anything whether I see one side or not. All I see right now is normal people dying at the hands of the government.
I read the article and listened to the leaked conversation. I still dont have a clear picture about what they are actually saying........
I think the article has raised a few alarm bells, especially the stuff about
"Why is that we have so many vile Jews like Nuland in positions of power and influence in Washington DC? " - quite a vile way with words, the article seems quite biased too.

Are there any other level-headed articles/info out there?

[Wind]

The president and the government of Ukraine are in Putin's pocket, he pays them and then they attack the people who oppose the governments will. Of course US has their own agenda too, but even if the Russian government was the lesser of the two evils, it still doesn't mean that they would be good. Putin has tons of blood on his hands and it's a fact... Yet he is being praised and he is one of the wealthiest and most influential men on this planet.

http://www.vice.com/read/ukraine-russia-eurasia-european-union-putin-yanukovych

[galilava]

I think this has to do with the gas situation that Syria conflict could not resolve in favor for those who started it. The protests may have started as genuine, but the blood is not. The snipers, shooting civilians, look too suspicious and smell of black opp.

[Etherios]

the problems were there ... and all outside influence is bad ...

But i am sorry to say ... the US/EU finger started all these. If the gov had said yes ... to join EU then nothing would had happened.

You dont need that many people to start this ... few paid provokers and few paids killers to start shooting the police/army ... then its over. I read somewhere reports of people getting paid to protest etc.

Also the way both US and Russian news report this says alot. US blames the governments to be Russian and the Russians say its all planed by EU and US. Once blood is spilled then its hard to stop.

Snipers ... i havent read much about that but it immediately reminded me of Syria. Both in Syria and Ukraine the "protesters" are a minority of the public (at least openly) and they both have guns. Also the West media is giving names to the protesters that are or sound exactly the same as the Syria Rebels at the start.

Imagine how hard it is to control the police when they are being burned or shot at ... in the EU or US especially, they taser you for resisting ...

[TigaHawk]

Yes, so far in the last few months there have been protests and clashes in Venezeula,
Bosnia: XtHa6A1wxoI
Brazil: 2meFNeBC80c
0bWW8u59Rrw
Montenegro: DuSiQhjnrMQ
and UKraine.
Obviously I dont agree with violence too. The way I see it is that the people are reacting like a child/teenager who is pissed off yet have no idea how to use this anger.
This protest has been going on since Dec, its only recently this has become violent.

I really hope this is a sign of people waking up all over the world.

What i dont understand are the people that think the citizens of Kiev are wrong with what they are doing. When a whole country stops and demands it's government step down - that's the country speaking. They are meant to be there to serve the interests and wellbeing of their people and the country. If the people/country no longer want them in power - what gives them the right to say?

Sadder still will be the violence was probably organised by the government itself to allow them to start arresting/detaining people en-masse to try and quell the rebellion.

[Etherios]

What i dont understand are the people that think the citizens of Kiev are wrong with what they are doing. When a whole country stops and demands it's government step down - that's the country speaking. They are meant to be there to serve the interests and wellbeing of their people and the country. If the people/country no longer want them in power - what gives them the right to say?

Sadder still will be the violence was probably organised by the government itself to allow them to start arresting/detaining people en-masse to try and quell the rebellion.

So you know its the majority of the citizens in Kiev? Also is Kiev population the majority of Ukraine? I mean if i get a few thousands people and go start burning a capital city and demand my government to change a political choice thats ok? 90-95% of Greeks dont want almost all the laws that we are forced to accept ... do we go and burn cities? If you remember about Greece and the burnings in Athens. The "protesters" were less than 1% of the people on the streets.

There is an issue but i am pretty sure that its a very small minority that does this and the result will have nothing to do with the will of the Ukraine people. Look Egypt ... Look Syria ... Look Libya ... just saying.

Not entering EU is not enough to make this reaction ... in normal conditions. The people can wait for the next elections to elect a different Government. Its not like entering the EU will immediately change the face of Ukraine. This is all a distraction ... and i think its to change the Government to a pro EU one fast and painfully. (Pain and fear will help the Ukraine people to accept any EU conditions later on ... " Do you want fires again??? Accept this..."). The same thing happened in Greece ... and continues to happen even today.

[Tesseract]

As I wrote elsewhere here, I support Ukrainian independence, it is the number one goal, and I don’t begrudge any Ukrainian the right to argue for, and protest for, what they consider is best for Ukraine, including trade agreements with Europe if that is what they want. To say that this whole thing is engineered is wrong, the background here is well known and not a recent fabrication. However, I do have a problem with the blatant lies and hypocrisy, the specious representation, and the manipulation of Western opinion that is taking place by the pro-Europe faction. As such I decided to write some things down.


The president of Ukraine is democratically elected, despite the international campaign to smear his name, he was elected in 2010 in elections that are agreed to have been fair – and the elections were specially monitored given the controversy of the prior election. I note today that the Washington post is making the risible argument that the Ukraine democracy is not really a democracy. It’s all a part of the propaganda machine which is now running at maximum overdrive (does it ever stop?).


So, one can argue that Yanukovich has a democratic mandate to finish his presidency which has only 12 months to go anyway. However, since there is relatively little time left it would not be such a betrayal of his constituency to call an early election, and this may be one of the few options available to fairly (relatively) resolve the current crisis. Of course, if the election did not go the way of the pro-europe crowd they will refuse to recognise the result, knowing that the might of Europe and the USA will be behind them with the weight of economic sanctions. If such an election did go the way of the pro-europe crowd then perhaps things may calm down.


As a parallel to the current situation, one can consider the protests in Turkey recently, which were very well attended and lasted quite some time, and a number of protesters were killed and many injured – however the protesters didn’t shoot, kill, kidnap or take hostage any police as far as I am aware. Personally, I don’t like the president of Turkey and would like to have seen him resign, however I had to admit that he was put in place by the people of Turkey and had a right, even an obligation, to stay there. Had the protests been as massive as they were in Egypt, against Morsi, then there would have been more of a democratic argument for Erdogan to quit.


In Ukraine, there is not a country-wide movement against Yanukovich, and the protests, as large as they are, are not nearly as overwhelming as those against Morsi. Rather, the protesters represent the pro-europe faction, certainly not all of Ukraine. Of course, you have these youtube videos appearing ‘I am a Ukrainian’ which conveniently are in English, in addition to English language tweets being issued by the pro-europe political leaders, that try to give the impression that the movement represents the Ukrainian people as a whole, when in fact it does not. The very simple and undeniable fact that Yanukovich fairly won the elections, despite the incredible international and domestic smear campaign orchestrated against him by coordinated players, proves the fact that a large number of Ukrainians are not represented by the protesters.


One slightly disturbing trend that I am seeing is the imputation that Russian speaking Ukrainians somehow don’t really count, as if they are secondary citizens. Yet, these are people who were born and raised in Ukraine just like any other Ukrainian. I might also mention that these Ukrainians had their political representation denied after the western backed so-called range revolution a number of years ago. Then, after Yukashenko took the Presidency and Tymoshenko the Prime ministership, did the disenfranchised Yanukovich supporters behave then as the pro-europe Yanukovich opponents are behaving now? Did they unleash a raging firewall of molatov cocktails, gun down policemen, take hostages, call for sanctions against their own country and so on? No, they didn’t. They just waited until the next election and voted for Yanukovich again, this time under international monitoring so that the result could not be in dispute. This, from the supposedly non-democratic faction in Ukraine. Of course we know that Yanukovich won that election, since contrary to Western propaganda, there were in fact people in Ukraine who wanted him to be their president – many of them these Russian speaking people who shouldn’t really be heard.


As indicated in a link posted above, there are some stories going around of Israelis joining the protest movement, even taking organisational roles. A huge number of Israeli citizens were actually born in Ukraine, if they do not represent the biggest portion of aliyim in Israel (did I spell that right?) then they would be not far behind. Perhaps one of our Israeli avalonians can correct me, but I would not be surprised if many, perhaps even most, of these Ukrainian Israelis are from the ‘western’ portion of the Ukrainian population. So, as western Ukrainians, and Israelis, they would probably be happy to see a Russia-friendly government taken down. As such, it is not really hard for me to believe that there is some truth to these reports. Is it a big deal? We already know foreign powers are working behind the scenes to take down Yanukovich, so it is not such a major revelation to me.


On the current violence (by the way this has made me very sad because I have always been interested in Ukraine and wanted (still want) to go there very much, my heart really sank a lot recently): police forces in all countries attract some really nasty people and if you told me that some of the killed protesters were not shot in self defence by the police, then I would believe you. However, many police have also been killed deliberately by protesters (if that is the right term here) and many violent incidents have been initiated by protesters. In fact, the Western media, which is firmly against the government of Ukraine, is actually reporting that in the recent (Thursday 20th Feb) deadly clash, what happened was the protesters attacked the police, thereby breaking the truce that was agreed to, the police retreated, the protesters then hounded the police, attacking them with Molotov cocktails and so on, at which point the police fought back. This is not my account, this is the account of the western media including CNN and ABC Australia. In fact the western media has been forced by the abundance of evidence to reluctantly admit that there is an element of the protest movement that is anything but peaceful and that these people have essentially forced a violent response.

We should also ask ourselves if the response of the Ukrainian government has been a reasonable one.

Yanukovich sacked the government and then offered the job of Prime minister to an opposition leader (Yatsenyuk). The government also scrapped the anti-protest laws as demanded by the protesters, and ordered restraint by the police. The government released about 300 people that had been detained (less than US detained in occupy protests, by the way) and dropped charges when the protesters agreed to vacate the hall they were holding. The government also agreed to a truce negotiated with the opposition. All this negotiation and concession from the brutal tyrant dictator of the Western comic book media. Tell me the name of a President of any other country that would bend this far in an effort to preserve the peace. Perhaps as a next step he will resign or announce an early election, perhaps even a review or reversal of the economic decision that precipitated this whole mess. For a minute, when the truce was announced following negotiations between opposing parties, it seemed like there was some hope. Meanwhile the USA was threatening sanctions if there was any further deterioration. Like clockwork, despite opposition parties formally agreeing to a truce, that deterioration happened, and we can now expect sanctions to be announced pretty soon by the country that has the greatest portion of its population in prison and which has killed millions through bombings/invasions and sanctions without ever attracting such adjectives as brutal and tyrannical to its name. Maybe also the USA will officially not-recognise the Ukrainian government and recognise an alternative government including the people they have already decided should be in it.


For the upset Ukrainians who are the protesters, I have no doubt that they genuinely wish to profit from greater ties to Europe and less reliance on Russia, for me there is nothing wrong with that on the face of it. But for the West, this is about bringing Ukraine into the military geo-political fold of Europe/USA, while simultaneously splitting Ukraine further away from Russia (Ukraine is an independent country already of course, some people are acting like the USSR never broke up). That is something I do have a problem with. Next time I am protesting against another European/NATO bombing campaign or invasion, I hope I am not also protesting against Ukrainian armed forces, that would really bother me a lot.


Meanwhile they think about how to bring down Lukashenko in Belarus.

[Becky]

Surprised this is the first thread??
I've been following closely whats happening and feeling very sad, upset and crying looking at the videos of people fighting against the government.

Then there are people saying its because of so many reasons they are protesting, like an american coup, apparently said by Alex Jones.
But these people on the streets dont feel that I'm sure.
My opinion is that they are basically sick of the corruption, same as the occupy movement and anonymous....

I also think this is a perfect example of what any so called western country could expect from their governments if it kicked off anywhere else.
Lets face it, they are all corrupt gangsters all over the world because the whole system is corrupt.
What do you think?


Hi Conec,
this isn't the first thread, here's a link to another on here...

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68607-Joining-the-Rising-Tide-of-a-new-Human-Consciousness

My son has a friend living in Kiev, and he was talking online with his friend about the situation over there.

[chocolate]

http://redicecreations.com/article.php?id=29042

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And there was a thread with a very good overview some time ago. If I find it I'll link it below.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?67795-Ukrainian-Protesters-Encircle-US-Embassy---Yankees-Go-Home---

[Agape]

So you know its the majority of the citizens in Kiev? Also is Kiev population the majority of Ukraine? I mean if i get a few thousands people and go start burning a capital city and demand my government to change a political choice thats ok? 90-95% of Greeks dont want almost all the laws that we are forced to accept ... do we go and burn cities? If you remember about Greece and the burnings in Athens. The "protesters" were less than 1% of the people on the streets.

There is an issue but i am pretty sure that its a very small minority that does this and the result will have nothing to do with the will of the Ukraine people. Look Egypt ... Look Syria ... Look Libya ... just saying.

Not entering EU is not enough to make this reaction ... in normal conditions. The people can wait for the next elections to elect a different Government. Its not like entering the EU will immediately change the face of Ukraine. This is all a distraction ... and i think its to change the Government to a pro EU one fast and painfully. (Pain and fear will help the Ukraine people to accept any EU conditions later on ... " Do you want fires again??? Accept this..."). The same thing happened in Greece ... and continues to happen even today.


I don't have answers to all these questions .. we're in central Europe , fortunately far enough but the situation and governments in Ukraine seemed to be disastrous since the collapse of the SU .

I'm perfectly sure it's not any ''1%'' people and only in Kiev , they have every right to step out and say no to the government. 'Waiting for next elections' is not an option there it seems,

their governments were corrupt one after another with leaders stabbing their opponents to backs, the case of that blond plated lady Tymoshenko who signed deal to save gas supplies to EU and was forcefully removed and imprisoned for 'imposing debt' on the Ukrainian economics is but one of many . No good willed individual can survive amongst or against the standing 'junta' there , I suppose it's the same in many other countries if not most of them .
However , their government is extremely lame and corrupt , Ukraine used to be the main producer of wheat for Europe and they're also strategically important because gas lines leading through them and I'm sure they have abundance of space and natural resources however,
whatever I've heard , situation and living standards had been very poor in the country , we get regular flux of Ukrainian immigrants here and I suppose other European countries do as well.
They used to be 'economical refugees ' at start, with majority of cheap manual workers , but it all changed over the years to political refugees ( economical reasons do play role of course ) but they don't want to be there any more ,
people with academic titles feeling endangered , having very little options and opportunities where jobs are concerned .

Money is known to be spent and misused, wasted by the government for anything they see as appropriate and they do not follow common principles of democracy , not listening to what people need, whether they're starving .

There's been quite some eco-tourism to the country by young adventurous travellers from elsewhere, all say in one voice .. the country is rural , people are very kind but there are no infrastructures, no roads to villages, extreme poverty in some areas, alcoholism, of course they need to change .

I think the president signing the very recent deal with Russia was the 'last nail' to the coffin for them .

They don't want Russia to dominate them , no one here in Europe wants Russia to dominate, they are cultish and dominant in nature , same goes for China in the East .


We've got rid of this BB 25 years ago almost and no way they will impose their will over the EU . See how they influenced the world , by charms .. so that all the small countries, their sovereignties were and in many cases still are ignored .


:alien:

[Etherios]

...

So you like the US imposed status but you dont like the Russian? So far the only problems the west have been having is cause the US wants more and more. Russia just tries to benefit from economical contracts ... but they are not allowed cause they are the "bad" guys? dont understand your reasoning.

Ill give you and example ... in Greece. We were looking for new war planes and we had 2 deals few years ago ... F-16 from US (old models with some new planes and no def system) or SU-27 from Russia with full tech transfer and support + trainers and 1 extra engine per fighter. Russian offer was alot lower and had other economical contracts also ...

We took the F-16 ... that took 3-4 years more to come and half were faulty and had to be refitted etc ... i guess Russia is the bad guys ...

Noone said Ukraine people are on the wrong ... BUT if your memory is good in a few years you will find news that most protesters are not locals or they are getting paid by the west.


p.s. watch the video above ... it might help you see this more openly

[chocolate]

I personally don't like both the so called West and the Russian imperialistic appetites.

Kiev is thorn apart by the two sides, both quite powerful- the west, EU as the closest, and the US. It is a conflict based not only on politics/economics, but also on religion.
The Ukrainian people are very kind, loving and understanding, but also quite aware, unlike many others. It is not an easy task to be between two giants and to be able to stand straight.

[heyokah]

Listen to what Joseph P. Farrell has to say about the current Ukraine situation.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAL__UFqzwk&feature=share&list=UUAF7Kv45Z3PNJOmms46I2Sw

[Agape]

...

So you like the US imposed status but you dont like the Russian? So far the only problems the west have been having is cause the US wants more and more. Russia just tries to benefit from economical contracts ... but they are not allowed cause they are the "bad" guys? dont understand your reasoning.

Ill give you and example ... in Greece. We were looking for new war planes and we had 2 deals few years ago ... F-16 from US (old models with some new planes and no def system) or SU-27 from Russia with full tech transfer and support + trainers and 1 extra engine per fighter. Russian offer was alot lower and had other economical contracts also ...

We took the F-16 ... that took 3-4 years more to come and half were faulty and had to be refitted etc ... i guess Russia is the bad guys ...

Noone said Ukraine people are on the wrong ... BUT if your memory is good in a few years you will find news that most protesters are not locals or they are getting paid by the west.


p.s. watch the video above ... it might help you see this more openly



Hello Etherios ,

there is no US imposed status on either of our European territories . There are always some 'influences' and here on continent , the whole central-north-east of Europe had been fighting Russian dominance since the world wars .

I understand perfectly why you don't see my perspective if you're from Greece . Greece has been its own 'state and capital' for many centuries , perhaps due to its surviving historical and cultural legacy ,
you've protected your identity for as long as you could .

Here in central EU the situation happened to be very different . We had to fight for sovereignty and independence from the Austrian-Ungarian Empire and won Republic in 1918 , only to be taken over by Germany in 1938 .

Most European countries belonged to one then another Empire over the centuries and were culturally suppressed to greater or lesser degree .

The last controlling mechanism imposed on us by former Soviet Union after WWII , from 1948 lasted 41 years .

You did not experience the situation in Greece and were far enough from their controls , they still supported your economy and fuelled the proletariate and pro-communist movement in Greece as well, so they did in many other countries .

But officially, you're were on the other side of the 'curtain'. Not sure how much this is true nowadays anyway .


In gist .. no matter how much 'bad beans' is being spilled about the US on this forum, we all can also safely agree that problems the 'New Continent' experiences are problems that mankind has to face as part of their evolution,

believing that someone being 'forwards' stops having problems is very narrow minded idea .

The fact is that further we get , problems may become harder and they can 't be solved by those sitting in their caves and armchairs and not supporting the change .

There's no 'ideal country' or 'ideal regime' or anything 'ideally human' I'd find in this world and even if I start explaining you the reasons why it can't be , quite yet, you would not understand .

But between the 'two options' I'll certainly choose advanced democracy against self ruled totalitarian regimes which is what Russia and China are till today .
They've made few little steps forwards as well, maybe great improvements from where they see it but what I see ..
is still people who impose their laws and 'truths' with whips and tear gas , who put their opposition to prisons and mental asylums and do not even bother to be ashamed about it .

We've experienced a touch of their influence , it was like shadow cover that no one liked except for sneaky shadowy characters who always existed and profited from any regime, without need to call them names .

Please understand that I am merely explaining my own attitude and experience , know you have your valid points .



PS : Payed by the West ? To get killed ? Are you just kidding yourself ?








:tea:

[gripreaper]

Tyranny, same as it ever was, while the world, not just Ukraine, is shouting at the castle walls and pleading with their overlords to throw more scraps over the wall to the slaves. While Rome burns most of the world is shouting for more bread a circuses. Every so often, the slaves get restless. Once they sent a Trojan in and overtook the castle, and yet the tyrants recovered. Once they revolted in France and brought the Magna Carta to the people, and the tyrants recovered. Once they braved the oceans to come to a new land, and the tyrants took that over too.

There is an awakening. I don't think there are many who don't recognize that something is wrong, but I still don't see how screaming at the castle walls has ever changed anything throughout history. What I do see, is a concerted effort by the controllers to keep the masses in the low vibratory frequencies of fear, anger, and sorrow, in order to continue to subjugate them for their own nefarious cannibalization of the life force energies of all humans. To say that the controllers are inhuman is not that much of a stretch.

Globally we ALL acquiesce to the system of energy vampirism, giving our energy to it each and every day. We support a monetary system of exchange which steals over 50% of the energy from the people, yet we continue to allow the tyrant banksters to run free, suiciding their own workers in broad daylight while we get loans and continue to pay our mortgages and our credit cards. We talk about global alliances and ancient families who are supposedly going up against the banksters and have the wherewithal to unseat them. We have remote viewers who will bring us announcements that will change everything.

What is abundantly clear to me, is talking to the man in the mirror, and asking the question: What can I do? The answer I get goes something like this: Raise your vibration. Get OUT OF the lower vibratory fields of fear, anger and sorrow where the tyrants cannot vampire your life force. Continue to extricate yourself from supporting the tyrannical system of commerce in every possible way, every single moment of every single day. Implement into my daily life the following protocols:

Watch what I put in my mouth. For example, no more fluoride. Drink distilled water, take mineral supplements, eat raw organic foods, detox twice a year minimum, and test my PH regularly. Exercise and stay oxygenated. This is at a minimum. If I'm not healthy, I cannot move to a higher frequency, and therefore I cannot be creative on how to help myself and others to extricate from the system.

Research. Learn from those who are in the trenches and ARE extricating themselves from the system, who are the patriots and the sovereigns. Don't try and blaze this trail by yourself, but understand how tyranny works, how it came about, how we acquiesce to it, and how we can reclaim our sovereignty. This is the most salient point, to OWN that WE support tyranny. Without us, it cannot stand.

Find out where you are supporting it and do what you can, right now to detox, raise your energy level, and quit giving your energy to the tyrants. It really is up to us.

[SilentFeathers]

Seems with the added pressure over the last few days the western "bankers" have basically dug their tentacles in a bit deeper.

Ukraine Opposition Signs Deal With President (http://www.klfm967.co.uk/news/world-news/1212246/ukraine-tensions-are-high-after-deadly-clashes/)

The pattern continues..................


Polish foreign minister Radoslaw Sikorski was overheard warning a member of the Ukrainian opposition that President Yanukovich would impose martial law if protesters did not support a deal with the government and that they all would be dead....
Article with VIDEO showing him saying this (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10654081/Ukraine-protest-leader-warned-youll-all-be-dead.html)


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[Observer1964]

Ukraine & WW3

Gepubliceerd op 19 feb. 2014

Alex welcomes to the broadcast Geopolitical expert and political activist Lyndon Larouche joins the show to break down the major players who are secretly fueling the protests in Kiev.
fEKAWB7rCgc

The Revolution Business,

2011 - Consultants are helping people countries like Ukraine and Egypt build a foundation of knowledge in order to start revolutions.


Democratic change has been demanded across the Middle East. But was what seems like a spontaneous revolution actually a strategically planned event, fabricated by 'revolution consultants' long in advance?

Revolution consultants are the worst nightmare of every regime. Srdja Popovic was a founder of the organisation 'Otpor', a revolution training school. It was instrumental in the overthrow of Slobodan Milosevic in the 1990s and has now inspired a new generation of activists. Political commentators like William Engdahl are convinced Otpor is being financed by the USA. "The people from Otpor gave us a book in which they described all their strategies", says Ezzedine Zaatour of the Tunisian uprising. That book was written by an American, Gene Sharp, and is now considered the "revolution guide book", being used by opposition movements worldwide. As Optor release their latest gadget, a resistance training computer game sponsored by American organisations, world leaders are voicing their concerns. "This is called a gentle coup!", insists Hugo Chavez.

Produced by ORF. Ref - 5171
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[chocolate]

Yulia Tymoshenko Freed? Ukraine Parliament Votes To Release Jailed Former Prime Minister
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/21/yulia-tymoshenko-freed-ukraine-parliament-votes_n_4831762.html


Tymoshenko, a vocal opposition leader and one of the faces of the 2004 Orange Revolution, was convicted in October 2011 after of exceeding her powers as prime minister. She was sentenced to seven years in prison. Her incarceration has led to strained ties between the former Soviet nation and the West, with both the United States and the European Union condemning the jailing as a "politically motivated" act.

As BBC News' Moscow correspondent Daniel Sandford points out, the vote to free Tymoshenko will still need to be signed into law by embattled President Viktor Yanukovych, Tymoshenko's principal rival.

Why is the Yulia Tymoshenko case so important?
https://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/why-is-the-yulia-tymoshenko-case-so-important-331629.html


The first point is that Tymoshenko was not convicted for graft, but for exceeding her authority in signing the 2009 gas price agreement with Russia. Now that agreement has been slated as a bad agreement for Ukraine – recently I heard suggestions that the deal could have cost Ukraine $10-$20 billion in higher energy import costs. In response I would counter that two years after her jailing, and despite the weight of the prosecutors’ office focusing on the fine detail of that agreement, no evidence from what I can make out has been gleaned of graft related to the 2009 agreement. It may have been a bad agreement, but likewise the 2006 agreement concluded by the Viktor Yushchenko administration was equally questionable (perhaps worse) for Ukraine.
[...]
Second, and returning to the issue of the importance of Tymoshenko and the link with the free trade agreement with the EU. I think you have to ask yourself why she is in jail. Was it really because of the signing of the 2009 gas deal, or for other reasons, i.e. that she poses a political threat to the incumbent regime. If you think it was the latter, then this implies the selective application of justice, and it is surely only right that the EU plays very tough over the Tymoshenko issue and links to the free trade agreement.
Third, again if you assumed the latter in term of point two above, I think the EU softening its approach for the sake of getting the free trade agreement signed would be at a huge detriment to Ukraine and indeed to the basic principles of the EU in terms of respect for basic democratic rights. If the EU signs the free trade agreement with Tymoshenko still in jail this would suggest that EU principles in terms of respect and support for basic democratic rights are somehow up for negotiation. And, that regimes that do not abide by EU principles still get rewarded with favorable trade and association (it is not just about trade, but about setting a perspective towards membership of the EU, i.e. taking on the EU's basic principles) deals.

Fourth, I think if the EU signs the free trade agreement with Tymoshenko still in jail there is a real danger that the 2015 election will not be free and fair – the EU will have sent totally the wrong signal to the Yanukovych administration, and will have revealed that its sanction has no teeth. There have been legislative efforts recently to preclude another opposition leader, Vitali Klitchko, from running in the 2015 election, and I think the risk is that other opposition leaders will face similar pressures. And this is important not just for Ukraine, but for other countries across the CIS, but globally – a clear precedent will have been set.

Fifth, there is this desire that the free trade agreement has to be signed to ensure Ukraine stays out of the Russian fold, is protected from Russian bullying, and keeps a European perspective. I think however the European perspective is all about the protection of basic democratic rights, which is center stage in the Tymoshenko case.

So concluding, I would argue that the Tymoshenko case is actually not about an individual, but a key principle which is a very foundation of the EU and everything it stands for, i.e. the protection and indeed promotion of basic democratic rights. Hence, I would contend that the Tymoshenko issue should be linked to the free trade agreement, and that this is key both for the future of democracy in Ukraine, but is similarly important for the EU and the basic tenets which underpin the very foundations of the EU itself, and for its global partners.
https://www.kyivpost.com/hot/yulia-tymoshenko/


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yulia_Tymoshenko
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Revolution

[Agape]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukraine-yulia-tymoshenko-released-prison-121311118.html#uIHCJLi

Ukraine: Tymoshenko Set For Release From Prison

MPs have appointed interim figures to key government roles after a deal to end three months of violent clashes in Ukraine.
Jailed Ukrainian opposition leader Yulia Tymoshenko is set for release as part of political decisions taken at an emergency session of parliament in Kiev.
Initial reports claimed she had already been freed, but these were later clarified by aide Natasha Lysova who said the parliamentary decision meant she must be freed immediately.
Ms Tymoshenko is the arch-rival of President Viktor Yanukovych and her arrest in 2011 and conviction on charges of abuse of power were claimed as political revenge by opposition supporters.
Sky's Diplomatic Editor Tim Marshall said: "The president has left and it looks like his power has crumbled. There's a new speaker, who is sympathetic towards the opposition who are rapidly becoming the government.
"Tymoshenko is set to be released, the interior ministry which controls the police says it wants rapid change, and the party which is strongest in the east - which is the government's party - has said it wants to unify the country.
"So you just see power transferring across, and it's happened relatively quickly.
"The next move probably is Tymoshenko to come to the capital and there will be tumultuous scenes and if that happenes at some point this square has to be cleared."
It comes after protesters claimed full control over the city of Kiev and key allies of Ms Tymoshenko were appointed to interim roles by MPs during an emergency session of parliament.
Police have abandoned posts around the capital and protesters held the presidential office.
Opposition leaders have called for the president to stand down immediately and urged early elections to take place before May 25.
President Viktor Yanukovych is reported to have left Kiev, with his residence in the capital unguarded and journalists able to enter the building freely, according to the Interfax news agency.
A close ally said he had no intention of leaving Ukraine. Hanna Herman said he was visiting Kharkiv, a city in the east of Ukraine which is the heart of his support.
Speaker Volodymyr Rybak, a key aide to Mr Yanukovych, announced he was standing down due to ill-health on Saturday.
MPs elected Oleksander Turchynov - a close ally to Tymoshenko, to replace him along with opposition MP Arsen Avakov as interior minister until the formation of a new coalition government.
The interior ministry said on Saturday it was in favour of "speedy change" and urged the people to unite to ensure security and the creation of an "independent, democratic and just European country".
But regional legislators in eastern Ukraine have questioned the legitimacy and authority of decisions made by the national parliament.
Authorities say some 77 people have been killed over three days of violence in the Ukrainian capital.
But opposition medics say more than 60 protesters were shot dead by police on Thursday alone, and that almost 100 people have died in the crisis.




No news good news eh :angel:



K_IAZaVVi54


Sky's Katie Stallard reports from Kiev where security forces have abandoned their posts in the government district.


:peace:

[superconsciousness]

Looks like the elusive Middle East peace agreement will drag into this fall.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/177659#.UwiwBPldWSo

[SilentFeathers]

Looks like the western bankers win again....


UKRAINE PROTESTERS TAKE KIEV; PRESIDENT SAYS COUP

Yanukovych left Kiev for his support base in the country's Russian-speaking east, where lawmakers questioned the legitimacy of the newly empowered parliament and called for volunteer militias to uphold order.

"Everything that is happening today is, to a greater degree, vandalism and bandits and a coup d'etat," Yanukovych said in a televised statement, clearly shaken and making long pauses in his speech.

He said decisions made by parliament Friday and Saturday "are all illegal" and compared the situation to the rise of Nazis in the 1930s. He said he would not sign any of the measures passed by parliament, which include trimming his powers and releasing his jailed arch-rival, ex-Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko.

MORE: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_UKRAINE_PROTESTS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-02-22-09-30-17

[Poly Hedra]

"A CIA agent has allegedly just been captured in the Ukraine as shown on the video below. This video was just emailed to Before It’s News at the request that we publish this information immediately. Is this MORE PROOF that the CIA and US government are fomenting revolution in the Ukraine or propaganda from ‘the other side’? More below video. - See more at: "

http://livefreelivenatural.com/cia-agent-captured-ukraine-helping-ukranian-protesters-video/#sthash.lOMr5QXv.dpuf

[Sidney]

Here is the episode of Coast to Coast from the 20th. George Noory interviewed Ed Dames. Regardless of what you think of him, he does live part time in Kiev, Ukraine and know a little something about the situation there. Here is the interview with him starting at the 1:17.00 mark.

The first half of the show is about all the Banker deaths, worth listenig to that too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw4niw93Ffk

[Hervé]

Here is a "collage" from a SOTT.net article (http://www.sott.net/article/274312-Meet-the-racist-anti-gay-democrats-the-US-and-EU-have-chosen-to-lead-Ukraine-into-a-glorious-future):


http://www.sott.net/image/image/s8/171805/full/s0sR7dL.jpg
The Ukraine's new opposition leader, created by the US and EU, giving the Sig Heil to his rabid supporters



http://www.sott.net/image/image/s8/171806/full/big.jpg
From left, the head of Svoboda, the larger of the two far-right, anti-Semitic parties the US and EU support, Oleh Tyagnybok; in the middle is the head of the Batkivcshchyna party, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, US-trained economist and against gay marriage; then on the right is the head of the smaller, even more extreme, anti-Semitic far-right Udar ('Punch') party Vitalii Klitschko, who is not so much against gay marriage as he is for gays being publicly beaten and humiliated.





In response to Svoboda's anti-Semitic rhetoric, the World Jewish Congress has called for the party to be banned.
SOTT Comment: And yet, one of Europe's leading Zionists, French 'philosopher' Bernard Henri-Levy (http://www.sott.net/article/274361-Manufacturing-Consent-Bernard-Henri-Levy-the-new-philosopher-selling-military-adventures-of-the-global-elite), gets up on a stage with these people at the beginning of demonstrations in Kiev to egg them on towards revolution...

What's up with that? They decry anti-Semitism, but do their damnedest to incite it and spread it...
European and Israeli leaders expressed shock in October 2012, when Svoboda gained more than 10 percent of the electorate in parliamentary elections, entering the legislature for the first time. (In some western regions of Ukraine, Svoboda gained as much as 40 percent of the vote.)
SOTT Comment: Yes, the EU was in so much shock, it thought it would be a good idea to hand power to these guys.
Svoboda glorifies fascist figures and related slogans from Ukraine's past - on New Year's Day, 15,000 Svoboda members and their followers marched in honor of controversial Ukrainian nationalist leader Stepan Bandera, who fought against the Soviets during the Second World War and had ties to Nazi Germany. His Ukrainian Insurgent Army allegedly took part in the massacre of thousands of Ukrainian Jews and Poles. Tyahnybok has repeatedly sought inspiration from Ukrainian insurgents who fought in World War II. "They did not fear, but took up their automatic rifles, going into the woods to fight Muscovites, Germans, Jewry and other filth which wanted to take away our Ukrainian nationhood. It's time to give Ukraine to the Ukrainians," he said.
SOTT Comment: Funny that, did Henri-Levy suddenly forget about the Holocaust he spends every other moment of his time reminding people in the rest of Europe about?
http://www.sott.net/image/image/s8/171789/full/BHL_Kyiv.jpg
Hopelessly duped Ukrainian people listen to French Jewish-Zionist warmonger, Bernard-Henri Lévy (http://www.sott.net/article/274361-Manufacturing-Consent-Bernard-Henri-Levy-the-new-philosopher-selling-military-adventures-of-the-global-elite), on Kyiv’s Maidan Square, February 9, 2014.


http://www.sott.net/image/image/s8/171797/full/TD6Nory.jpg
"Pleased to meet ya. Yes, you'll serve our purposes well..." McCain meets the 'opposition leader' Oleh Tyahnybok to get the ball rolling on this 'revolution'.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now... what's that thing, again... about controlled opposition... who is whose puppet?

[Etherios]

So i guess one more country .... occupied by monsters and 1 step closer to nuclear war. Nice ... well done :clap2:

If we are still here the next few weeks months we will see how wrong they are most people here that said this is a public outcry and the "will" of Ukraine people.

Hope we all remember but this is a how a country died. Also now you will see how much the country will be divided and how many more will die or get in jail. See Libya and Syria ... you will get what i mean. Divide and conquer.

[Etherios]

Here is the episode of Coast to Coast from the 20th. George Noory interviewed Ed Dames. Regardless of what you think of him, he does live part time in Kiev, Ukraine and know a little something about the situation there. Here is the interview with him starting at the 1:17.00 mark.

The first half of the show is about all the Banker deaths, worth listenig to that too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw4niw93Ffk

C2C ... has lost its value ... They have sold out ... every day every topic they keep going back to the official narratives. I dont know why or how but they are off my info news list.

They are saying bravo to this much death cause of coruption? The damn government was ELECTED ... and they compare them to Gadafi.

So what should the Greeks or the EU in general do for their corruption? NOTHING ofc ... they are going along the orders of the Elite so why revolt. Sleep ...

i hope a EU citizen comes here and says we are not controled by US and the Elites ... please i want to have a laugh.

[Sidney]

Here is the episode of Coast to Coast from the 20th. George Noory interviewed Ed Dames. Regardless of what you think of him, he does live part time in Kiev, Ukraine and know a little something about the situation there. Here is the interview with him starting at the 1:17.00 mark.

The first half of the show is about all the Banker deaths, worth listenig to that too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw4niw93Ffk

C2C ... has lost its value ... They have sold out ... every day every topic they keep going back to the official narratives. I dont know why or how but they are off my info news list.

They are saying bravo to this much death cause of coruption? The damn government was ELECTED ... and they compare them to Gadafi.

So what should the Greeks or the EU in general do for their corruption? NOTHING ofc ... they are going along the orders of the Elite so why revolt. Sleep ...

i hope a EU citizen comes here and says we are not controled by US and the Elites ... please i want to have a laugh.
I fully agree with you, I even wrote George Noory an email complaining how he handled one shows live caller in particular . I just happened to listen to this episode in the car, I actually thought I was getting the episode before, but, something that he said, was that TWITTER is a good way to see what is happening over there because its pretty much live updated information, and everything else can be manipulated.

But you are so right, Coast has really taken a nose dive. Very Sad after all these decades.

[Sidney]

source - http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/18/inside-the-great-bitcoin-heist.html





WORLD NEWS 02.22.14
Ukraine's President Flees Kiev, Tymoshenko Is Free at Last
Former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko was finally released from prison on Saturday as President Yanukovich fled the capital. Will Cathcart reports from the ground in Kiev.
Ukraine’s former prime minister, Yulia Tymoshenko, was freed from prison today and went straight to Kiev’s Independence Square to rally her divided nation. President Viktor Yanukovich has left the capital, while many of his closest associates are reported to have fled the country. “A dictatorship has fallen,” Tymoshenko told the crowd, but she insisted that the fight has just begun.
To all intents and purposes, right now Ukraine has no president, but the parliament named Olexandr Turchinov, known as Tymoshenko’s right-hand man, to be its speaker. He is now the de facto leader of Ukraine—at least until Tymoshenko appears in public. A newly appointed interior minister also is from her party. Leading military and police units have begun declaring their loyalty to the new regime.

Former prime minister Tymoshenko, who wears her blonde hair in a trademark crown-like braid, had been serving a seven year sentence on corruption charges that many analysts believed were trumped up. Recently she had been confined in a hospital ward about three hours away from the Ukrainian capital. Tymoshenko has suffered from recurrent medical problems and appeared in Kiev in a wheelchair.

For months power in the country has been contested by the Euro Maidan movement and other protestors intent on taking the Ukraine closer to Europe, while Yanukovich sought to tie Ukraine ever more closely to Russia and its President Vladimir Putin.

Over the last three days the simmering confrontation suddenly erupted. Scores of protestors and police were killed on Thursday, even as three European foreign ministers and a representative from Moscow tried to strike a deal with Yanukovich to end the violence. After a marathon negotiating session, many of the protestors’ demands were met on Friday morning: early elections were announced, and a return to an earlier, more liberal constitution. The police pulled out of Independence Square. But Yanukovich still tried to hang on to power.

Then, earlier today, 300 members of parliament declared that the president no longer held office because he had exceeded his authority. Protestors occupied the presidential palace without resistance. Yanukovich had fled.

The now non-president is reported to have gone to the southeast of the country, which is Russian speaking and a traditional stronghold of support. But it appears that Putin, who once gave him strong backing, is now pulling away from him.

Indeed, nobody seems to want to be associated with the infamously corrupt Yanukovich in this drama that often feels surreal. At his residence, Yanukovich abandoned a menagerie of exotic animals, and amid all the upheaval, calls have gone out for people to rescue the beasts. Almost no one is talking about rescuing their owner.

The one thing that now seems to be clear is that we’re going to see a new Ukraine. As I look around Independence Square, a place where the word “apocalypse” has become a journalistic cliché, what strikes me now is the sense of order and of hope.

“We police ourselves,” says Nick Gorokhov, a spokesman for the Euro Maidan movement. “Ordinary people unite to make a civil guard to protect the city.”

The president is gone. The people are still here.

[hangel]

(..) And nine, nine rings were gifted to the race of Men, who above all else desire power. For within these rings was bound the strength and the will to govern over each race. (...)
They were once Men. Great Kings of Men. Then Sauron the Deceiver gave to them nine Rings of Power. Blinded by their greed, they took them without question, one by one falling to darkness. Now they are slaves to his will. They are the Nazgûl, Ringwraiths, neither living nor dead.(...)

This is what happens when people desire power. Those who desire it should be given it last.

[Labrenthina]

well said! I must admit I have adopted this attitude about all the issues around the world. With Ukraine issue, same thing as we could debate forever about whether there are paid protesters etc but if we skip out all the messy confusions, it makes sense that there would be unrest right now.
As it has been pointed out, it is build up anger that is being unleashed even if it they got hijacked by other agendas. Even if it is only a 'minority' protesting, this doesn't mean the majority do not care or are perfectly happy. Many will not want to be involved in this type of 'unrest', which imo is very wise. As they say, 'if you keep doing what you have always done, you will always get what you always got'. Or I believe Einstein said it was a sign of insanity to keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result.
I do not believe protesting is effective and for the changes the world needs it is useless and a waste of energy better spent 'being the change'.
We must also keep in mind the propaganda and distractions used against us and designed to fuel fear and a sense of feeling powerless. Chanting in the street may make you feel united, but will not bring change. Violence is never the way as violence only breeds violence. Same for trying to bring down a system by using the same systems, it will not be a success.
Only solution is to increase love and to 'be the change we want to see in the world'. Its more than a catchy phrase, it is truth!
" quit giving your energy to the tyrants" is great advice (by gripreaper)
I know there is growing numbers of people simply deciding to 'opt out' of this civilization. I had my own plans and have now met so many with similar plans that it really could turn out great and be a group effort and 'birth' of a new society. If more and more decide to opt out also, just imagine....'live as an example' 'build it and they shall come' and all of these saying spring to mind!

[Etherios]

well said! I must admit I have adopted this attitude about all the issues around the world. With Ukraine issue, same thing as we could debate forever about whether there are paid protesters etc but if we skip out all the messy confusions, it makes sense that there would be unrest right now.
As it has been pointed out, it is build up anger that is being unleashed even if it they got hijacked by other agendas. Even if it is only a 'minority' protesting, this doesn't mean the majority do not care or are perfectly happy. Many will not want to be involved in this type of 'unrest', which imo is very wise. As they say, 'if you keep doing what you have always done, you will always get what you always got'. Or I believe Einstein said it was a sign of insanity to keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result.
I do not believe protesting is effective and for the changes the world needs it is useless and a waste of energy better spent 'being the change'.
We must also keep in mind the propaganda and distractions used against us and designed to fuel fear and a sense of feeling powerless. Chanting in the street may make you feel united, but will not bring change. Violence is never the way as violence only breeds violence. Same for trying to bring down a system by using the same systems, it will not be a success.
Only solution is to increase love and to 'be the change we want to see in the world'. Its more than a catchy phrase, it is truth!
" quit giving your energy to the tyrants" is great advice (by gripreaper)
I know there is growing numbers of people simply deciding to 'opt out' of this civilization. I had my own plans and have now met so many with similar plans that it really could turn out great and be a group effort and 'birth' of a new society. If more and more decide to opt out also, just imagine....'live as an example' 'build it and they shall come' and all of these saying spring to mind!

Sorry ... i would have to disagree ... yes build up anger but pointed at the wrong way ... AKA problem,reaction,solution.

If they manage to split Ukraine now in to 2 parts ... we can see the beginning of a new Cold war ... then i am sure the Ukraine people that got tricked will be hit the hardest.

Divide and conquer ...

[risveglio]

Thought it was worth sharing, sorry if it has all been said.

cKH9bmH2YII

[Roisin]

Ill omen? Pope’s doves of peace for Ukraine attacked by angry birds

Pope Francis on Sunday prayed for the start of a “constructive dialogue” in Ukraine, releasing two white doves to symbolize the hope for peace. However, the doves were immediately attacked by a crow and a seagull.

http://rt.com/news/pope-doves-omen-ukraine-222/

[Sidney]

Ill omen? Pope’s doves of peace for Ukraine attacked by angry birds

Pope Francis on Sunday prayed for the start of a “constructive dialogue” in Ukraine, releasing two white doves to symbolize the hope for peace. However, the doves were immediately attacked by a crow and a seagull.

http://rt.com/news/pope-doves-omen-ukraine-222/

Hey Roisin, that happened on January 26th, but one may wonder, if this was some kind of premonitional future warning.

[Poly Hedra]

Same for trying to bring down a system by using the same systems, it will not be a success.


Exactly
Hopefully this will be the next step in the worlds realisations.

[Etherios]

can someone explain to me what a dictator mean?

Cause democratically elected but corrupted doesnt mean dictator. Didnt they know about this when the majority voted for him? This is an overthrown of a legal / democratic government.

If corruption is a reason for revolution ... guess what 99% of the west Governments should be overthrown NOW.

really please someone explain how that guy is a dictator and he deserves to die and everyone around him die also? Cause this is what we will see really soon ... a "purge".

[Operator]

democratically elected

I assume you know what that means in most cases right ?



If corruption is a reason for revolution ... guess what 99% of the west Governments should be overthrown NOW.

Yeah, you got a point there ...

[Etherios]

democratically elected

I assume you know what that means in most cases right ?

You didnt understand me ... i have no delusions of actual democracy ... i am just saying that we put a tag on a government and justify the deaths of so many people.

If he isnt tagged as a dictator then ... the revolution is at fault and all those deaths are not his fault. So the hole plan stops.


I just want to POINT to all the people here ... good or bad he was elected. Thats 10000000% different that the excuses used in Libya or Syria. Still i read people here and listen on the "news" in alternative channels that he is a dictator o.O wtf.

Congress has 6-9% acceptance in the USA and Obama has what 20-30% ... but they are good. If he is a dictator then ... do the math i guess.

[Operator]

good or bad he was elected.

My emphasis should have been on the word 'elected'. The word in front of that doesn't matter at all.
Elected in our era means confirm the preselected candidate. I have no illusion of electing somebody
at all. The best signal we could give is massively NOT vote at all.

Did you know that some dictators are 'elected' with a near 100% support ... surprise, surprise :eyebrows:

[Octavusprime]

Here is clip from Ron Paul. I really enjoy his calm and no BS attitude. His views often jive well with mine.

Vb4g8B54iRo


Last week Ukraine saw its worst violence since the break-up of the Soviet Union over 20 years ago.

Protesters occupying the main square in the capitol city, Kiev, clashed with police leaving many protesters and police dead and many more wounded. It is an ongoing tragedy and it looks like there is no end in sight.

The current conflict stems from a divide between western Ukraine, which seeks a closer association with the European Union, and the eastern part of the country, which has closer historic ties to Russia. The usual interventionists in the US have long meddled in the internal affairs of Ukraine. In 2004 it was US government money that helped finance the Orange Revolution, as US-funded NGOs favoring one political group over the other were able to change the regime. These same people have not given up on Ukraine. They keep pushing their own agenda for Ukraine behind the scenes, even as they ridicule anyone who claims US involvement.

A recent leaked telephone conversation between two senior government officials made it clear that not only was the US involved in the Ukrainian unrest, the US was actually seeking to determine who should make up the next Ukrainian government!

Senator John McCain, who has made several trips to Ukraine recently to meet with the opposition, wrote last week that the US must stand up to support the territorial integrity of Ukraine, including Crimea.

Why are US government officials so eager to tell the Ukrainians what they should do? Has anyone bothered to ask the Ukrainians? What if might help alleviate the ongoing violence and bloodshed, if the Ukrainians decided to re-make the country as a looser confederation of regions rather than one tightly controlled by a central government? Perhaps Ukraine engaged in peaceful trade with countries both to the west and east would benefit all sides. But outside powers seem to be fighting a proxy war, with Ukraine suffering the most because of it.

If you asked most Americans how they feel, my bet is that you would discover they are sick and tired of the US government getting involved in every crisis that arises. Certainly the American people want none of of this intervention in Ukraine. They understand, as recent polls have shown, that our interventionist foreign policy is only creating more enemies overseas. And they also understand that we are out of money. We could not afford to be the policemen of world even if we wanted to be.

And I bet if we asked the Ukrainians, a vast majority of them would prefer that the US — and Russia and the European Union — stay out their affairs and respect their sovereignty. Is it so difficult to understand why people resent being lectured and bribed by foreign governments? All we need to do is put ourselves in the place of the Ukrainians and ask ourselves how we would feel if we were in the middle of a tug-of-war between a very strong Canada on one side and a very strong Mexico on the other. We would resent it as well. So let’s keep our hands off of Ukraine and let them solve their own problems!

[SilentFeathers]

I'm wondering what country is next on the bankers list to take down and confiscate????

The latest:


In a clear warning to Ukraine, Putin on Wednesday ordered massive military exercises involving most of the military units in western Russia. On Thursday, as part of the exercises, 90 fighter jets were put on combat alert and were patrolling the border with Ukraine, Russian news agencies quoted the Defense Ministry as saying.

The military also announced measures to tighten security at the headquarters of Russia's Black Sea Fleet on the Crimean peninsula in southeastern Ukraine.

The military maneuvers prompted a sharp rebuke from U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, who warned Russia that any military intervention in Ukraine would be a "grave mistake."

Meanwhile, Ukraine's currency, the hryvnia, dropped further to a new record low of 11.25 to the U.S. dollar, a sign of the country's financial distress.

One of the new government's first tasks will be to seek rescue loans from the European Union and the International Monetary Fund. The finance ministry has pegged the country's needs at $35 billion dollars for this year and next to pay salaries and debts and cover the large budget deficit.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_UKRAINE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-02-26-19-30-20

I'm also wondering how long Putin is going to put up with being manipulated and tossed around like a rag doll.....

[Etherios]

well to all those that said this is the publics voice and revolution...

Central Banker Appointed as Prime Minister of Ukraine (http://www.infowars.com/central-banker-appointed-as-prime-minister-of-ukraine/)

And

IMF Vultures Swoop to Asset-Strip Ukraine (http://www.infowars.com/imf-vultures-swoop-to-asset-strip-ukraine/)

And

Ukrainian Neo-Nazis Declare that Power Comes Out of the Barrels of their Guns (http://www.infowars.com/ukrainian-neo-nazis-declare-that-power-comes-out-of-the-barrels-of-their-guns/)


But dont be weird ... thats the idiot Alex Jones ... they are all lies ... oh wait ... the info are from "main stream" Media ... wait what ... nah

I dont "believe" Alex Jones he is a zionist and anything he says is a lie. Ukraine people want/need this (/sarcasm)


p.s. this is from another thread ...
Washington's Role in the Ukrainian Coup & How it May Spin Out of Control (http://scgnews.com/washingtons-role-in-the-ukrainian-coup-how-it-may-spin-out-of-control)
100% Ukraine public will ...

[SilentFeathers]

I seriously think this is spiraling outta control.....


US, NATO warn Russia to avoid 'miscalculation' over Crimea (https://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5guu5pWB782-u6HxU6Uiwu6UyzDwA?docId=cd49d378-da15-40ad-a558-7ea71b5faeeb)

NATO head Anders Fogh Rasmussen said he had no indication that Russia planned military intervention in Ukraine, after he too had warned Moscow against fuelling tensions.
Asked about the military exercise, he said: "The Russians informed us about this and made clear that this exercise has nothing to do with ongoing events in Ukraine."

also:

0uvwFTg1oOI

[SilentFeathers]

I'm surprised more people aren't talking about this, being that it's such a huge event and potentionally more dangerous than the Syrian fiasco.

[Hervé]

Most probably because it is indeed huge and dangerously highly volatile... no one dares lighting up a match next to that powder keg... that's the rest of Europe!

[Etherios]

I'm surprised more people aren't talking about this, being that it's such a huge event and potentionally more dangerous than the Syrian fiasco.

huge event? ... check this ... now this is HUGEEE

X Factor star collapses live on TV show (http://uk.celebrity.yahoo.com/gossip/the-juice/rebecca-ferguson-collapses-during-live-performance-loose-women-143114692.html?vp=1)

/sarcasm off ...

i really think people are too scared to talk about this ... even in these forums. Nuclear war is too close ... and we have way more lunatics on the red buttons, than in the cold war, that ... i am honestly scared.

[SilentFeathers]

Things are a bit unpredictable in Crimea/Ukraine right now....


Alienated Crimea defies Ukraine’s new order (http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/02/28/world/alienated-crimea-defies-ukraines-new-order/)
Some in region urge autonomy or reunion with Mother Russia

SIMFEROPOL, UKRAINE – Waving the Russian flag and chanting “Russia! Russia!” protesters in Crimea have become the last major bastion of resistance to Ukraine’s new rulers.

President Viktor Yanukovych’s overthrow Saturday has been accepted across the vast country, even in his power base in the Russian-speaking regions of the east. But Crimea, a Black Sea peninsula attached to the rest of Ukraine by just a narrow strip of land, is alone so far in challenging the new order.

As the only Ukrainian region with an ethnic Russian majority, and a home to Russia’s Black Sea Fleet, the strategically important territory is now also the focus of a battle between Russia and the West over the future of Ukraine.

Ukraine: Crimea airports seized as interior minister accuses Russia of 'military invasion' (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-armed-men-seize-crimea-airport-9159276.html)

[heyokah]

Ukraine crisis: 'Russians' occupy Crimea airports

Ukraine has accused Russia of carrying out an armed invasion by sending naval forces to occupy Sevastopol airport in the Crimea region.

Russia's Black Sea Fleet denies its servicemen are blocking the airport.

Another Crimean airport, Simferopol, has also been occupied by armed men, thought to be pro-Russia militia.

Relations between the two countries have been strained since Viktor Yanukovych was ousted as Ukrainian president last week.

Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26379722

[Hervé]

Nah! I don't believe it!

See? Because my source is better at lying than yours! :jester:

Ukraine security forces regain Crimea airports (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/02/28/352662/ukraine-forces-regain-crimea-airports/)


http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/20140228/352662_Crimea-airport.jpg

File photo shows Crimea international airport in Simferopol.
Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:21PM

Ukrainian authorities say they have regained control of two airports in the country’s semi-autonomous region Crimea after armed gunmen seized the buildings.

The country’s National Security and Defence Council chief Andriy Parubiy said Friday that there had been an attempt to occupy the airports in Crimea, security forces, however, has taken full control of them.

The developments come as Ukraine’s Interior Minister Arsen Avakov earlier in the day accused Russian troops of staging an “invasion” of Crimea’s international airport in Simferopol and the Belbek airfield near the city of Sevastopol, which is home to Russia's Black Sea fleet.

A spokesman for Russia’s Crimea-based Black Sea Fleet denied that Russian troops had any involvement in the airport occupations.

Earlier on Friday, a group of armed men in military uniforms briefly seized an airport in the regional capital of Crimea. Eyewitness said about 50 gunmen in military uniforms arrived at Simferopol International Airport in military trucks to search for Ukrainian airborne troops.

The group, however, left after finding out that Ukrainian military forces were not present on the tarmac.

The airport incidents came a day after dozens of gunmen seized the government and parliament buildings in Simferopol in Crimea and hoisted Russian flags above the government headquarters on Thursday.
[Russian false flag? Or false Russian flag?]

Unrest erupted in Ukraine in November 2013, when President Viktor Yanukovych refrained from signing an Association Agreement with the EU in favor of closer ties with Russia.

On February 23, the Ukrainian parliament ousted Yanukovych and named Oleksandr Turchynov, the legislature’s newly-elected speaker, as interim president.

CAH/AB



Related Interviews:


http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/20140228/352614_Ukraine-US.jpg
‘US mustn’t back neo-Nazis in Ukraine’ (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/02/28/352614/us-mustnt-back-neonazis-in-ukraine/)





http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/20140227/352460_Ukraine-clashes.jpg
‘New Ukraine govt. faces challenges’ (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/02/27/352460/new-ukraine-govt-faces-challenges/)


Related Viewpoints:


http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/20140225/352203_Ukraine-protests.jpg
Civil war brewing in Ukraine? (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/02/25/352203/civil-war-brewing-in-ukraine/)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What a difference between doom and gloom article title and its actual content... (sigh)

[Tesseract]

UN security council to meet today on Ukraine crisis. Russia is going to veto the sh!t out of this one:


25085

[Phoenix1304]

Tyranny, same as it ever was, while the world, not just Ukraine, is shouting at the castle walls and pleading with their overlords to throw more scraps over the wall to the slaves. While Rome burns most of the world is shouting for more bread a circuses. Every so often, the slaves get restless. Once they sent a Trojan in and overtook the castle, and yet the tyrants recovered. Once they revolted in France and brought the Magna Carta to the people, and the tyrants recovered. Once they braved the oceans to come to a new land, and the tyrants took that over too.

There is an awakening. I don't think there are many who don't recognize that something is wrong, but I still don't see how screaming at the castle walls has ever changed anything throughout history. What I do see, is a concerted effort by the controllers to keep the masses in the low vibratory frequencies of fear, anger, and sorrow, in order to continue to subjugate them for their own nefarious cannibalization of the life force energies of all humans. To say that the controllers are inhuman is not that much of a stretch.

Globally we ALL acquiesce to the system of energy vampirism, giving our energy to it each and every day. We support a monetary system of exchange which steals over 50% of the energy from the people, yet we continue to allow the tyrant banksters to run free, suiciding their own workers in broad daylight while we get loans and continue to pay our mortgages and our credit cards. We talk about global alliances and ancient families who are supposedly going up against the banksters and have the wherewithal to unseat them. We have remote viewers who will bring us announcements that will change everything.

What is abundantly clear to me, is talking to the man in the mirror, and asking the question: What can I do? The answer I get goes something like this: Raise your vibration. Get OUT OF the lower vibratory fields of fear, anger and sorrow where the tyrants cannot vampire your life force. Continue to extricate yourself from supporting the tyrannical system of commerce in every possible way, every single moment of every single day. Implement into my daily life the following protocols:

Watch what I put in my mouth. For example, no more fluoride. Drink distilled water, take mineral supplements, eat raw organic foods, detox twice a year minimum, and test my PH regularly. Exercise and stay oxygenated. This is at a minimum. If I'm not healthy, I cannot move to a higher frequency, and therefore I cannot be creative on how to help myself and others to extricate from the system.

Research. Learn from those who are in the trenches and ARE extricating themselves from the system, who are the patriots and the sovereigns. Don't try and blaze this trail by yourself, but understand how tyranny works, how it came about, how we acquiesce to it, and how we can reclaim our sovereignty. This is the most salient point, to OWN that WE support tyranny. Without us, it cannot stand.

Find out where you are supporting it and do what you can, right now to detox, raise your energy level, and quit giving your energy to the tyrants. It really is up to us.

Great post, grip.

Not that I want to fan the flames, but I attended the circus today to see the sabre rattling, and I thought this MSM article was quite interesting, it speaks of the gas interests for Europe, The Budapest Memorandum, Ukraine's ex-pm's money laundering and how Russia has more troops on Crimea's borders than all of UK's put together. Lies and truth, it doesn't really matter it is all a pantomime and I entirely agree that the way to change it, is to not engage with it, other than as an objective observer, very difficult to get people fired up to go to war if they're not really buying it. Glad to see a healthy bit of disrespect for Alex Jones on this thread too…question everything! : )

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570335/Former-British-Ambassador-Moscow-warns-Russia-invaded-Ukraine-difficult-avoid-going-war.html

[risveglio]

What is abundantly clear to me, is talking to the man in the mirror, and asking the question: What can I do? The answer I get goes something like this: Raise your vibration. Get OUT OF the lower vibratory fields of fear, anger and sorrow where the tyrants cannot vampire your life force. Continue to extricate yourself from supporting the tyrannical system of commerce in every possible way, every single moment of every single day. Implement into my daily life the following protocols:

Watch what I put in my mouth. For example, no more fluoride. Drink distilled water, take mineral supplements, eat raw organic foods, detox twice a year minimum, and test my PH regularly. Exercise and stay oxygenated. This is at a minimum. If I'm not healthy, I cannot move to a higher frequency, and therefore I cannot be creative on how to help myself and others to extricate from the system.

Research. Learn from those who are in the trenches and ARE extricating themselves from the system, who are the patriots and the sovereigns. Don't try and blaze this trail by yourself, but understand how tyranny works, how it came about, how we acquiesce to it, and how we can reclaim our sovereignty. This is the most salient point, to OWN that WE support tyranny. Without us, it cannot stand.

Find out where you are supporting it and do what you can, right now to detox, raise your energy level, and quit giving your energy to the tyrants. It really is up to us.

This post was awesome, especially the part quoted above. We should make it a sticky and lock it so that every Avalonian/ite that comes here is reminded that this is what we can do. I have been struggling with "What can I do?" every since I started to be aware. Thanks grip.

As for the Ukraine, it would be more believable if they didn't release the script early.

Breaking: Russia Recalling Ambassador From U.S., Sending Troops Into Ukraine

Read more: http://benswann.com/breaking-russia-recalling-ambassador-from-u-s-sending-troops-into-ukraine/#ixzz2ujoH1IIQ

[avid]

http://urbansurvival.com/2014/02/28/...e-war-woo-woo/

Coping: With Ukraine War Woo-Woo
Posted on February 28, 2014 by George Ure
Every so often our http://nostracodeus.com/ project comes up with something that is truly amazing. And sometimes we get more than a slight hint of the future in the process. And readers there contribute some amazing emails…and that gets me to the point:

Suppose for a moment that I told you that a prediction that the “Third World War to begin during Winter Games in 2014” was made by astrologers, shamans and parapsychologists in Russia ways back in the spring of 2011 – three years ago!.

Well, it’s true, the prediction was, in fact, made. You can find it in Pravda’s English language archives here. (http://english.pravda.ru/society/anomal/25-03-2011/117328-third_world_war-0/)

No kidding! And, if you read the story closely, you’ll find today is one of the “hot days.”
Just supposing those troops without insignia are not Russian - but planted dupes put there to foment war...?

[gripreaper]

Great post, grip.

Not that I want to fan the flames, but I attended the circus today to see the sabre rattling, and I thought this MSM article was quite interesting, it speaks of the gas interests for Europe, The Budapest Memorandum, Ukraine's ex-pm's money laundering and how Russia has more troops on Crimea's borders than all of UK's put together. Lies and truth, it doesn't really matter it is all a pantomime and I entirely agree that the way to change it, is to not engage with it, other than as an objective observer, very difficult to get people fired up to go to war if they're not really buying it.

Seeing the creation of the war meme all over the news, not reading any of it, it's obvious to some of us that the motivation to get the populace all riled up and accepting of war using human rights abuses as the catalyst, while the real reason goes something like this.

The natural gas reserves in the Ukraine are to be exploited by the super wealthy globalists, and the pipeline is supposed to go through Afghanistan and Syria, or some such route. Well, the Ukrainian's, Afgan's and Syrian's would like a piece of the action and a say in how the revenues are to be distributed and whether or not they want a pipeline through their country, but the elite want it all, as they always do.

So, create skirmishes, force massive central bank debt, then bankruptcy, then go in and take all the collateral assets for free, and force the populace to work as slaves to pay the debt against their own resources which the globalists now fully in control.

Rinse, repeat...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-a6jzU0YgQ

[GlassSteagallfan]

Dr. Paul Craig Roberts summarizes the situation in Ukraine. An excellent interview for those who do not fully understand the dynamics behind the Ukraine uprising - or the idiocracy in Washington.

The scroll down to the mp3 link on the left side of the page:

http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2014/3/1_Dr._Paul_Craig_Roberts.html

[SilentFeathers]

False flag? Punishment message? or just a coincidence?


“Neftekamskneftehim” is the largest oil refinery in Europe. It is located in Tatarstan, Russia and today, at 7.00pm Moscow Time, dozens of firemen were urgently summoned as the oil giant started burning.
http://englishrussia.com/2014/03/03/largest-oil-refinery-in-europe-is-on-fire/

http://asheepnomore.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/img-20140303203504-781.jpg

Also: (could be propaganda)

Crimean Leader Says Ukrainian Military Units Are Surrendering (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/05/world/europe/crimea-ukraine-russia.html?hp&_r=0)

It's also interesting that Obama recently lifted sanctions on Iran and is now talking about implementing sanctions on Russia.....hmmmm?

US says looking at 'broad range' of Russia sanctions (https://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i-oUSA3EHKxPmPJx6EzVCxGE0Okg?docId=3ec6aba1-007f-4f9e-9e0f-3a3849fb6804)

It appears to be a stand off.....but sometimes things are not what they appear to be.

Putin criticizes Ukraine's new leaders, warns West against sanctions (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/04/putin-blames-unconstitutional-overthrow-yanukovych-for-crimea-crisis/)

I'm wondering who the west will toss in to the mix to die for them, perhaps Turkey????? and or Poland??????

The dance continues.....

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-E8HO1S19X1M/UxXtXZxAdoI/AAAAAAAAGoQ/jJlhIV6iqqo/w376-h531-no/1891044_637509122953034_1360220897_n.jpg

[birddog]

let us recognize that most people everywhere...be it Earth or beyond are of good intentions...and then, there are others, from here or other worlds who for greed, or power, or control, want to terrorize and manipulate. Pray, and trust in God, for this too shall pass.

[Hervé]

Kiev backpedals on referendums after deadline to stop protest expires (http://rt.com/news/ukraine-protest-deadline-expires-856/)

Published time: April 11, 2014 09:52
Edited time: April 11, 2014 10:50


http://cdn.rt.com/files/news/25/13/00/00/donetsk.si.jpg

Ukraine federalization supporters carrying sand sacks for building barricades around the building of the regional administration in Donetsk on April 10, 2014. (RIA Novosti)




Just after a deadline set by Kiev for protesters in eastern Ukraine to vacate seized buildings expired, Parliament-appointed PM Arseny Yatsenyuk pledged to push through a law allowing regional referendums in the country.

Holding referendums on the status of their respective regions was among the main demands posed by anti-Maidan activists, who have taken over a number of governmental buildings in eastern Ukraine this week.

Ukrainian law currently does not allow regions to hold referendums separately from the rest of the country. It was one of the main arguments Kiev voiced in declaring illegal last month’s referendum in Crimea, which ended with the peninsula’s seceding from Ukraine and joining Russia.

Speaking in Donetsk, one of the regions engulfed by the anti-Kiev protests, Yatsenyuk said his government wants greater autonomy for Ukrainian regions, including the abolition of the offices of capital-appointed governors.

He was speaking just as a 48-hour deadline, which Kiev gave to protesters to liberate the seized buildings, expired. Previously the central authorities threatened to use force, including that of the military and even threatened their opponents as terrorists, unless they withdrew from the buildings.

The U-turn comes after Ukraine’s elite Alpha unit reportedly refused to obey an order to besiege protester-held buildings. At a session of law enforcement officials in Donetsk, one of the Alpha commanders said that he and his men are a force intended for rescuing hostages and fighting terrorism and will only act in accordance with the law, local media reported.

The unconfirmed act of defiance comes days after the siege by police of a protesters-seized building in Kharkov, which ended with dozens of activists being arrested. On Thursday, a local police lieutenant-colonel spoke to the media, claiming that he and other officers had been deceived by the Kiev authorities. He claimed that they were sent to take over the building under the pretext that it was held by dangerous armed bandits. In fact the protesters had only improvised clubs and offered no resistance to the storming troops.

The officer, Andrey Chuikov, said he would no longer take “criminal” orders and announced his resignation from the police, adding that he would be sacked anyway by his superiors for speaking to the press.

Discontent with the new authorities in Kiev, which has been brewing in eastern and southern Ukraine for weeks, escalated on Monday, as protesters in several cities started to take over governmental buildings. Protests took place in the cities of Donetsk, Kharkov and Lugansk, while smaller protest actions and some clashes were reported in Odessa and Nikolayev.


http://rt.com/files/news/25/13/00/00/donetsk-1.jpg

Pro-Russian protesters hold placards during their rally outside the regional state administration building in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk on April 10, 2014. (AFP Photo / Anatoliy Stepanov)


Donetsk activists remain in control of the regional administration building and have built three lines of barricades to defend themselves from a possible siege. They have declared the Donetsk region, which is home to about one-tenth of the population of Ukraine, a “people’s republic” and have demanded a referendum on its future status. They also declared forming a “people’s army” in response to threats from violence form Kiev.

Negotiations between the activists and the Kiev-appointed authorities of the region were held on Thursday and into Friday morning. They are trying to hammer out a deal to deescalate the tension, which includes some sort of joint patrols formed by police and the activists of Donetsk and a possible relocation of the protesters to a nearby building.

In Lugansk, activists are maintaining their hold on a Ukrainian Security Service office. They also cordoned off a base of the Interior Ministry’s troops on Thursday night, saying this would prevent their deployment for a crackdown on the protest, although later the blockade was lifted.

Meanwhile, in Kharkov, where police on Tuesday captured a regional administration building and took more than 50 activists into custody, the protests do not seem to be calming down. On Thursday evening several hundred people picketed the building, despite a court ban on doing so. A mass protest rally is scheduled for Sunday.