Bitcoin - is the concept working?

[Bob]

Some of the larger websites are discussing the current state of BitCoin and have picked up on this:

from: http://www.manchin.senate.gov/public/ - Senator Joe Manchin, West Virginia

"Washington, D.C. – Today, U.S. Senator Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) sent a letter to federal regulators seeking a ban on Bitcoin, the virtual currency that is unregulated and unstable, and has been used in illicit activity, including drug trafficking and money laundering.

"Senator Manchin expressed concerns about the negative effect Bitcoin could have on America’s economy if this crypto-currency remains unregulated.

"The letter was sent to Secretary Lew, Chairwoman Yellen, Commissioner Curry, Acting Chairman Wetjen, Chairman Gruenberg, and Chairwoman White."

The dialog on the various websites is heated.

ref: http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-debate-asian-financial-forum/ - heated coin debate Asian markets

"[..] many Asian markets like China and India are enacting or debating restrictions on virtual currencies like bitcoin and litecoin."

ref: http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/12/21/into-the-bitcoin-mines/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
- discussion on the BitCoin "mining" industry

"The unregulated Bitcoin-mining industry is ripe for abuse.."


http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2013/12/22/business/22bitcoin/22bitcoin-tmagArticle.png


From, "The Verge" (dot com)
ref: http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/26/5450640/senator-calls-upon-the-us-government-to-ban-bitcoin - Senator calls for the US to BAN

user comments:

"Just because a speculative asset is being used to barter for goods, services, and so forth doesn’t make it legally a currency. You can use sex, pokemon cards, cheese, belly button lint as an abstraction for cash but it doesn’t make it legally money. That distinction is up to the Federal Reserve and their congressional oversight. Even countries that declare their autonomy have to be recognized to have any legal powers as a state."

LA Times says - "on the verge of collapse"

ref: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-bitcoin-collapse-20140226,0,5968430.story#axzz2uXmDuvIL

"The mysterious circumstances that triggered the failure of the exchange, Mt. Gox in Tokyo, is only adding to the renewed anxiety over the virtual currency, which just a month earlier had been gaining momentum and supporters.

"After saying users could not withdraw their funds, Mt. Gox suddenly ceased all operations, including shutting down its website. Mt. Gox users may have lost more than $300 million worth of bitcoins in what was the latest and biggest in a series of recent setbacks for the virtual currency."

[Cidersomerset]

I'm not sure about it Bobd. I have not taken much notice of it lately , I put up a few
posts and threads when it first came out and it seemed like a pyramid type of scheme
to me first in cheapest, made biggest profits , then it seems to be going up and down.
It was not for me at this time and for those who like investing and are acute enough
to stay on top of it and make money fine. But it just does not feel right, I saw this
report earlier as well. Some with expertise on the subject will probably comment later.

====================================================

The Collapse Of Bitcoin

Thursday 27th February 2014 at 05:18 By David Icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Bitcoin-300x300.png


‘Bitcoin is a virtual currency that has no intrinsic value. The only thing giving bitcoin
value is the faith that people have in it, and now that faith has been shattered. This
week, the most prominent bitcoin exchange in the entire world, Mt. Gox, totally
collapsed. At one time, Mt. Gox boasted more than a million accounts and it accounted
for approximately 25 percent of all global bitcoin trading.

But now the website has been taken down, there are rumors of catastrophic losses, and
many investors are concerned that they will lose all of their money. In fact, according to
one report, investors could be facing total losses of up to 367 million dollars.

The collapse of Mt. Gox is also affecting other bitcoin exchanges. As I write this, the
market value of bitcoin had fallen to about $470, but just three months ago it was
trading close to $1,200. Needless to say, a lot of bitcoin investors are going to be
licking their wounds tonight.’

Read more: The Collapse Of Bitcoin

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-collapse-of-bitcoin

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/

===================================================

Zqi0mfxZiAk

Published on 25 Feb 2014


It was supposed to revolutionize the global monetary system. Instead, the bitcoin
virtual currency that has captured the imagination of investors and financiers is on
the verge of collapse.In a stunning blow to a novel way to buy products and
services, the world's largest exchange for trading bitcoin currency shut down
Tuesday, triggering a massive sell-off and sending many prospective investors
away — perhaps for good.

[Cidersomerset]

Max Kieser is a fan of it and as he suggests the big boys maybe trying to
infiltrate the virtual currency. The above reports speculate fraud, which
sounds like the mainstream banks finger print all over it, or electronic
malfunctions sounds odd. Max was lauding its possibilities a couple weeks
ago. The way he was talking about NSA and economic espionage may have
something to do with the demise of Mt Gox ??


C-Y6dpa7I5s

Published on 7 Feb 2014


Bitcoin Protocol Changing Currency - Keiser Report 531 - Digital Currency(HD) Max
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The US is becoming increasingly concerned over virtual currencies, launching broad
investigations into Bitcoin and the likes. The online currency has won off.

Easy to buy junk silver with paper currency. Not as easy to buy junk silver with
bitcoin, yet.

FSR's Vice President of Communications Alison Hawkins sits down with the
President of BITS, FSR's technology policy division, Paul Smocer to briefly discuss .

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In this episode of the Keiser Report, Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert discuss whether
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Dec. 11 (Bloomberg) -- Bloomberg's Matt Miller explains how bitcoin works on
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Virgin Galactic Accepts Bitcoin for Space Flight(HD) Richard Branson Invests in
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India, China, Iran all using bitcoin to avoid inflation, currency collapse.

[Arc]

Yes, the bitcoin concept, and crypto currency concept is working fine.

What is not working fine is for the elite control freaks who own the current global banking system to "get their way" to maintain a money monopoly.

Please, watch for continued demonization of bitcoin by legislators who are lobbied by banking corporations and global elites, as well as by mainstream news outlets owned by those same interests. Sure they will blame the boogey man for some black market activities that happened (while ignoring the huge libor and money laundering scandals of existing major banks...).

Bitcoin is in entering into the "then they fight you" stage, and moving past the "First they ignore you" and the "then they laugh at you" stages of that famous quote ... where finally bitcoin will "win."

Watch as the new bitcoin ATMs are rolling out even now and acceptance is being established with new businesses. Entrepreneurs are already innovating new companies around bitcoin. The train has left the station already. And when the train gets moving up to speed, many people will wish they got on... sort of like when eBay or Amazon were start ups and people at that time were skeptical about ebusiness.

But, these current bitcoin debates and situations, like recent Mt. Gox collapse, are necessary to the evolution of the natural rise of this new concept, and so must be played out, similar to when the internet itself was brand new.

Many people are mistaking the Mt. Gox collapse as a bitcoin collapse because they are uninformed and willing to let other people do the thinking for them. Mt. Gox was using poor technical and business practices and it finally caught up to them. They weeded themselves out of the evolutionary process so to speak.

That's ok because these sorts of bad PR scenarios, which are extra spun and whipped up by mainstream media and competitive interests, simply open up excellent buy opportunities to enter the market.

[sheme]

If you have money to invest Buy land they don't make it any more. The best return you will ever get. And you can grow food on it.

[Arc]

Some analogies to consider.

Bitcoin is to Federal Reserve Notes (or other similar currency) and Big Banks, as...

... Organic locally grown food is to Monsanto GMO food (who wants to control the food supply and seeds).

... Free energy devices are to oil/nuclear/power companies (willing to pollute in order to keep profiting).

... Alternative medicine is to big pharma industry (who profit from poison patents).

... Cures for diseases are to mainstream medical industry (who relies on maintenance of diseases, not cures).

... Net Neutrality and free access to information, is to censorship and mainstream media companies (use selective information for agendas).

... Freedom is to Tyranny.

Do you get the idea??

[indigopete]

Wow. It's amazing how people's true colours emerge when bitcoin is involved.

Michael Snyder's blog article is beyond belief in sheer brutal ignorance and stupidity.

He's basically citing a bank robbery as the basis for money not having any value.

I like the Economic Collapse blog - it usually has insightful material, albeit a bit dramatic. But that really takes the biscuit. He's clueless and has never grasped the idea that the value of something is derived from the role it plays in the economy, not the other way around.

I hope someone puts him right because he must be surrounded by at least a handful of cryptocurrency aficionados given the perspectives he writes about.

[Arc]

If you have money to invest Buy land they don't make it any more. The best return you will ever get. And you can grow food on it.

I agree with this, especially if it is land where you have freedom to build or do with it what you want.

But, land is typically a long term investment, large upfront cost, and is not portable or useful for daily, small transactions. So, it's a different animal than bitcoin.

[Rocky_Shorz]

who would use the media, to crush a competitor in the currency markets?

drive down the value, then quietly buy the sell-off to become the major holder of bitcoins to control the market and create derivatives from the holdings?

[TargeT]

wzwWIDIVSTo


Stefan Molyneux and Andreas Antonopoulos discuss the fall of Mt. Gox, the greatly exaggerated death of Bitcoin, the joy of failure within the Bitcoin economy, the incredible opportunity Bitcoin provides those without access to the modern banking system, and the difference between Bitcoin and the Federal Reserve System and fiat currencies worldwide.

Andreas Antonopoulos is the Chief Security Officer of Blockchain.info, a host on Let's Talk Bitcoin and an expert on Information Security and Cryptography.

[Bob]

From https://bitcoin.org/en/getting-started - getting started page FAQ's tab

General

What is Bitcoin?

Bitcoin is a consensus network that enables a new payment system and a completely digital money. It is the first decentralized peer-to-peer payment network that is powered by its users with no central authority or middlemen. From a user perspective, Bitcoin is pretty much like cash for the Internet. Bitcoin can also be seen as the most prominent triple entry bookkeeping system in existence.

Who created Bitcoin?

Bitcoin is the first implementation of a concept called "crypto-currency", which was first described in 1998 by Wei Dai on the cypherpunks mailing list, suggesting the idea of a new form of money that uses cryptography to control its creation and transactions, rather than a central authority.

The first Bitcoin specification and proof of concept was published in 2009 in a cryptography mailing list by Satoshi Nakamoto. Satoshi left the project in late 2010 without revealing much about himself. The community has since grown exponentially with many developers working on Bitcoin.

Satoshi's anonymity often raised unjustified concerns, many of which are linked to misunderstanding of the open-source nature of Bitcoin.

The Bitcoin protocol and software are published openly and any developer around the world can review the code or make their own modified version of the Bitcoin software. Just like current developers, Satoshi's influence was limited to the changes he made being adopted by others and therefore he did not control Bitcoin.

As such, the identity of Bitcoin's inventor is probably as relevant today as the identity of the person who invented paper.

Who controls the Bitcoin network?

Nobody owns the Bitcoin network much like no one owns the technology behind email.

Bitcoin is controlled by all Bitcoin users around the world. While developers are improving the software, they can't force a change in the Bitcoin protocol because all users are free to choose what software and version they use. In order to stay compatible with each other, all users need to use software complying with the same rules.

Bitcoin can only work correctly with a complete consensus among all users.

Therefore, all users and developers have a strong incentive to protect this consensus.

How does Bitcoin work?

From a user perspective, Bitcoin is nothing more than a mobile app or computer program that provides a personal Bitcoin wallet and allows a user to send and receive bitcoins with them. This is how Bitcoin works for most users.

Behind the scenes, the Bitcoin network is sharing a public ledger called the "block chain".

This ledger contains every transaction ever processed, allowing a user's computer to verify the validity of each transaction.

The authenticity of each transaction is protected by digital signatures corresponding to the sending addresses, allowing all users to have full control over sending bitcoins from their own Bitcoin addresses.

In addition, anyone can process transactions using the computing power of specialized hardware and earn a reward in bitcoins for this service.

This is often called "mining". To learn more about Bitcoin, you can consult the dedicated page and the original paper.

Is Bitcoin really used by people?

Yes. There is a growing number of businesses and individuals using Bitcoin.

This includes brick and mortar businesses like restaurants, apartments, law firms, and popular online services such as Namecheap, WordPress, Reddit and Flattr.

While Bitcoin remains a relatively new phenomenon, it is growing fast.

At the end of August 2013, the value of all bitcoins in circulation exceeded US$ 1.5 billion with millions of dollars worth of bitcoins exchanged daily.


https://bitcoin.org/img/faq/merchants_map.png

How does one acquire bitcoins?


As payment for goods or services.
Purchase bitcoins at a Bitcoin exchange.
Exchange bitcoins with someone near you.
Earn bitcoins through competitive mining.


While it may be possible to find individuals who wish to sell bitcoins in exchange for a credit card or PayPal payment, most exchanges do not allow funding via these payment methods.

This is due to cases where someone buys bitcoins with PayPal, and then reverses their half of the transaction.

This is commonly referred to as a charge-back.

How difficult is it to make a Bitcoin payment?

Bitcoin payments are easier to make than debit or credit card purchases, and can be received without a merchant account.

Payments are made from a wallet application, either on your computer or smartphone, by entering the recipient's address, the payment amount, and pressing send.

To make it easier to enter a recipient's address, many wallets can obtain the address by scanning a QR code or touching two phones together with NFC technology.

What are the advantages of Bitcoin?

-- Payment freedom - It is possible to send and receive any amount of money instantly anywhere in the world at any time. No bank holidays. No borders. No imposed limits. Bitcoin allows its users to be in full control of their money.

-- Very low fees - Bitcoin payments are currently processed with either no fees or extremely small fees. Users may include fees with transactions to receive priority processing, which results in faster confirmation of transactions by the network. Additionally, merchant processors exist to assist merchants in processing transactions, converting bitcoins to fiat currency and depositing funds directly into merchants' bank accounts daily. As these services are based on Bitcoin, they can be offered for much lower fees than with PayPal or credit card networks.

-- Fewer risks for merchants - Bitcoin transactions are secure, irreversible, and do not contain customers’ sensitive or personal information. This protects merchants from losses caused by fraud or fraudulent charge-backs, and there is no need for PCI compliance. Merchants can easily expand to new markets where either credit cards are not available or fraud rates are unacceptably high. The net results are lower fees, larger markets, and fewer administrative costs.

-- Security and control - Bitcoin users are in full control of their transactions; it is impossible for merchants to force unwanted or unnoticed charges as can happen with other payment methods. Bitcoin payments can be made without personal information tied to the transaction. This offers strong protection against identity theft. Bitcoin users can also protect their money with backup and encryption.

-- Transparent and neutral - All information concerning the Bitcoin money supply itself is readily available on the block chain for anybody to verify and use in real-time. No individual or organization can control or manipulate the Bitcoin protocol because it is cryptographically secure. This allows the core of Bitcoin to be trusted for being completely neutral, transparent and predictable.

What are the disadvantages of Bitcoin?

-- Degree of acceptance - Many people are still unaware of Bitcoin. Every day, more businesses accept bitcoins because they want the advantages of doing so, but the list remains small and still needs to grow in order to benefit from network effects.

-- Volatility - The total value of bitcoins in circulation and the number of businesses using Bitcoin are still very small compared to what they could be. Therefore, relatively small events, trades, or business activities can significantly affect the price. In theory, this volatility will decrease as Bitcoin markets and the technology matures. Never before has the world seen a start-up currency, so it is truly difficult (and exciting) to imagine how it will play out.

-- Ongoing development - Bitcoin software is still in beta with many incomplete features in active development. New tools, features, and services are being developed to make Bitcoin more secure and accessible to the masses.

Some of these are still not ready for everyone.

Most Bitcoin businesses are new and still offer no insurance. In general, Bitcoin is still in the process of maturing.

Why do people trust Bitcoin?

Much of the trust in Bitcoin comes from the fact that it requires no trust at all.

Bitcoin is fully open-source and decentralized.

This means that anyone has access to the entire source code at any time.

Any developer in the world can therefore verify exactly how Bitcoin works.

All transactions and bitcoins issued into existence can be transparently consulted in real-time by anyone.

All payments can be made without reliance on a third party and the whole system is protected by heavily peer-reviewed cryptographic algorithms like those used for online banking.

No organization or individual can control Bitcoin, and the network remains secure even if not all of its users can be trusted.

further information - https://bitcoin.org/en/faq - - BitCoin dot Org - FAQ page


http://www2.macleans.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/bitcoin31-660x230.png

Reading between the lines a bit on the MacLeans Canada website - http://www2.macleans.ca/ on their BitCoin articles, re: Mt Gox.. BTC China possibly started something with a 5M$ investment, then they shut down for a month, to reopen, then within a month Mt. Gox Tokyo shuts down shortly thereafter going bust.

From their article bitcoin isn't dead..

" It’s not Mt. Gox, an exchange started by an American and run by a French expat in Tokyo, losing hundreds of millions of dollars worth of Bitcoin.

The real driver of the price of Bitcoin can be summed up in one word: China.

As the following chart (courtesy of Bitstamp) makes clear, the entire recent explosive price history of Bitcoin has been driven primarily by Chinese speculators. The price of Bitcoin bounced around the $100 mark until November of last year, when China’s oldest Bitcoin exchange, BTC China, announced it had attracted $5 million in financing to expand its operations.

The price then quickly skyrocketed to more than $1,100 before BTC China announced it was suspending trading due to a crackdown on its bank accounts by the Chinese government. That caused the value of Bitcoin to drop nearly in half. It rebounded slightly after BTC China reopened for business in January.

"Going back over the recent history of Bitcoin, which exploded last year from around $14 to a high of more than $1,100 in November, makes it clear what’s really been driving the price of the digital currency."

SPECULATORS manipulating - same ole same ole.

[Bob]

Mt Gox may be back - 4 March 14

ref: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2014/mar/04/bankrupt-bitcoin-exchange-pins-losses-on-hacking/ - CEO says Mt Gox was hacked, failure of the software..

"TOKYO – The Tokyo bitcoin exchange that filed for bankruptcy protection blamed theft through hacking for its losses Monday, and said it was looking into a criminal complaint.

"In an announcement posted on the Mt. Gox exchange’s website, CEO Mark Karpeles outlined the events that resulted in the company’s insolvency and said there was a “high probability” theft was behind the disappearance of bitcoins.

“We will make all efforts to ensure that crimes are punished and damages recovered,” Karpeles said.

"He said Mt. Gox will try to resume business as a way of increasing repayments to its creditors."

The website is now back UP
- https://www.mtgox.com/ with a statement in Japanese and English.

"MtGox Co., Ltd. Made today an application for commencement of a procedure of civil rehabilitation (minji saisei) at the Tokyo District Court. This application was accepted on the same day. Further, MtGox Co., Ltd is under several orders issued by the Court:. a preservative order prohibiting it from paying its debts, transferring its assets or establishing security over its assets, an order establishing a comprehensive prohibition of forced attachment of its assets by its creditors and a supervisory order ordering supervision by a supervisory committee In Consequence, MtGox hereby informs you as FOLLOWS.

"We first Express Our most sincere Regrets and Apologies for this situation and for Causing so much Inconvenience to all users and Our Other interested Parties. We Will Respect fully the Above Orders and Maintain Our assets with all the necessary care."

[KiwiElf]

Bitcoin bank closes after high-tech heist

Bitcoin bank collapses after computer hackers steal digital currency from online vaults
Associated PressAssociated Press – 5 hours ago

http://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/bitcoin-bank-closes-high-tech-004516246--finance.html

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- A bank specializing in bitcoins says it has closed after computer hackers robbed its digital currency.

The closure of the Flexcoin bank comes just a week after the collapse of Mt. Gox, a major bitcoin exchange.

Mt. Gox also linked its demise to an electronic heist.

The twin failures of Mt. Gox and Flexcoin will likely raise more doubts about bitcoin's ability to establish itself as an alternative currency.

Hackers stole 896 bitcoins from Flexcoin's online vault, or "hot wallet," according to a notice on Flexcoin's website Tuesday. That translates into a loss of about $600,000, based on bitcoin's current trading value.

Unlike banks dealing in government-backed currencies, Flexcoin's losses aren't covered by deposit insurance. The Alberta, Canada, bank says it can't recover from the setback.

Bitcoins that Flexcoin kept offline, or in "cold storage," remain secure, according to the bank. Although Flexcoin didn't provide details, bitcoins stored this way are often documented on paper certificates or on a hard drive that's not connected to the Internet.

The Mt. Gox collapse represents a far bigger blow to bitcoin's credibility. That downfall wiped about 750,000 bitcoins, or about 6 percent of the currency's total circulation. Mt. Gox, which is based in Japan, has filed for bankruptcy protections while it sifts through its financial mess.

But the timing of Flexcoin's collapse could make it more difficult to foster trust in bitcoin.

Supporters are touting the five-year-old currency as a way to lower transaction fees by cutting out banks and payment processors that collect billions of dollars annually by serving as financial middlemen. Skeptics, including government leaders around the world, deride bitcoins as a currency suitable only for speculators.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

If you want to invest in cryptos, I would suggest Quarkcoin.
It is the MOST secure coin.
9 times more secure than Bitcoin. Its also the fastest with transactions and confirmations taking 30 seconds to 1 min compared with Bitcoins 30 mins to 1 hour.

Which do you think shop owners would be more happy to use if you were to walk into a shop and buy something with a crypto?

Can't see them waiting for 30 mins for a transaction to complete. With Quark there is no time to hack the coins like there is with Bitcoin. Quark is cheap right now. Very cheap and very undervalued.

Some links:

What is Quark?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrNnrvet7Ao&feature=youtu.be



Understand Quark: The Differences Between Bitcoin and Quark

qe4Myh5Rw9M

www.qrk.cc/

http://forum.qrk.cc/

http://www.quarkfoundation.cc/

http://www.reddit.com/r/QuarkCoin

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Ever single person in Icleand is about to get over £600 worth of free crypto currency called Aurora Coin.

http://auroracoin.org/

[Positive Vibe Merchant]

And how many different typs of Crypto currency to we have running at the moment?

They are popping up every day.

[Antagenet]

I propose that what will drive bitcoin and other crypto currencies to new highs will be the grinding or crashing failure of fiat currency, which hopefully is imminent or coming over the horizon. Either that or war, which this time will make the massive awakened people of the world detest governments and flee fiat.

[Anchor]

I've been actively reseaching Crypto currencies since Christmas. It is a super system.

I've mined about AU$100 and am currently investing in efficient mining hardware that I can run on my solar power - with a 6 month payback.

Been playing with dogecoin and bitcoin mainly.

Heaps of fun. Great hobby if you are technically inclined.

Nothing wrong with Bitcoin as a concept or protocol etc.

Lots wrong with some of the people that use it :)

Entry to the system has some technical barriers, and using the system safely does require a modicum of common sense and a reasonable understanding of computer security, and remember its still experimental.

It is rather sad to see people loosing a lot of money (sometimes entire pensions) but frankly speaking these people did insufficient research and were too used to the paradigm of being looked after by the government. Only big banks get bailed out these days when they gamble on greed and loose

Things are changing.

Caveat emptor.

[Anchor]

Here for some funny at the expense of bitcoin

reo7WbibxaQ

FV_kP91hJ7g

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

I've been actively reseaching Crypto currencies since Christmas. It is a super system.

I've mined about AU$100 and am currently investing in efficient mining hardware that I can run on my solar power - with a 6 month payback.

Been playing with dogecoin and bitcoin mainly.

Heaps of fun. Great hobby if you are technically inclined.

Nothing wrong with Bitcoin as a concept or protocol etc.

Lots wrong with some of the people that use it :)

Entry to the system has some technical barriers, and using the system safely does require a modicum of common sense and a reasonable understanding of computer security, and remember its still experimental.

It is rather sad to see people loosing a lot of money (sometimes entire pensions) but frankly speaking these people did insufficient research and were too used to the paradigm of being looked after by the government. Only big banks get bailed out these days when they gamble on greed and loose

Things are changing.

Caveat emptor.

Good post. Just wanted to add that Quark has a great development team. There is a mobile wallet, a whole payment system and other things in place. Also Bill Still who made the fantastic Money Masters documentary about the history of money manipulation is a big supporter. It really is worth looking into quark IMO.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Things are about to get crazy.

Bitcoin creator revealed. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?69166-Bitcoin-creator-revealed-)

[risveglio]

For those of you still curious about bitcoin. Dark Wallet released an alpha version today.

http://civilizedminority.liberty.me/2014/04/25/dark-wallet-will-bitcoin-finally-become-anonymous/?refer=libertyme

http://darkwallet.is/

[TargeT]

Things are about to get crazy.

Bitcoin creator revealed. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?69166-Bitcoin-creator-revealed-)

This was an example of terrible journalism by a poorly managed news magazine.

Here is an EXCELENT bitcoin conversation, everything you need to know ;) and some VERY exciting new bitcoin methods announced.

EnhGlgCm4MU

a quick interview that details bitcoin and gives good info:
Z440p2i8wJU

And Mr Molyneux has done some extensive speaking on it:


Stefan Molyneux looks at the rise of Bitcoin and discusses its history, mining, fees, altcoins, regulatory hypocrisy, worldwide awareness, comparisons to gold, anonymous transactions, possible government attacks and what the future holds for the decentralized cryptocurrency. w4HGVJjqDVk


Stefan Molyneux, MA, host of Freedomain Radio, brings over 15 years of software and business entrepreneurial experience to the question: What is the true value of Bitcoin?
Cs6F91dFYCs


Historically, politicians have always fought for the power to create money out of thin air, so they can increase their spending without having to directly increase taxes. The staggering growth of political power throughout the twentieth century -- the century of war -- was largely made possible by replacing money limited by gold with paper currencies, which can be printed at will by government-controlled banks.

Cryptocurrencies are the first self-limiting monetary systems in the history of mankind, and could be our greatest chance to check the growth of political power since the Magna Carta. Join Stefan Molyneux, the host of Freedomain Radio - the most popular philosophy show in the world - as he reveals the hidden political and military power of government currencies, and shows how cryptocurrencies could be greatest revolution in human history, and the foundation of a truly free and prosperous planet.
joITmEr4SjY


Andreas Antonopoulos again:

Stefan Molyneux and Andreas Antonopoulos discuss the fall of Mt. Gox, the greatly exaggerated death of Bitcoin, the joy of failure within the Bitcoin economy, the incredible opportunity Bitcoin provides those without access to the modern banking system, and the difference between Bitcoin and the Federal Reserve System and fiat currencies worldwide.

Andreas Antonopoulos is the Chief Security Officer of Blockchain.info, a host on Let's Talk Bitcoin and an expert on Information Security and Cryptography.
wzwWIDIVSTo



IMO: Bitcoin is the current "Best answer" to the world financial issues.

[TargeT]

Realize this:

the ultimate power in the current societies of the world is the control of money... Bit coin FORCES volunteerism (anarchy) and will destroy corrupt centralized governments and bankers, utterly.

watch the videos above, this is very revolutionary.

[ThePythonicCow]

Realize this:

the ultimate power in the current societies of the world is the control of money... Bit coin FORCES volunteerism (anarchy) and will destroy corrupt centralized governments and bankers, utterly.

watch the videos above, this is very revolutionary.

The mathematical algorithms and their software implementation are a quite different way from generating money than digging in the earth for gold, or lending money into existence (in exchange for liens on future labor and property.) The early users, storing bitcoins on their own PC's, with at least a little computer savvy, can exchange bitcoins amongst each other outside the control of corporate or government institutions (though not outside NSA surveillance, I presume.)

However the connection of that technology, into the existing monetary and economic systems, provides (in my view) ample opportunity for the existing powers that be to continue to be in power.

The over whelming legal, police, compute, propaganda, surveillance, hacking, and economic powers of the current bastards in power enables them to control bitcoin, rather too easily.

We see this in the various take downs and corruptions of the servers that most people depend on for handling and (except for the PC savvy) storing their bitcoins, in the concentration of bitcoin mining to a few institutions, and in the volatility of the bitcoin to major currency conversion rates.

We also see this in the difficulties in integrating bitcoins with commerce on a large and international scale. It's one thing for you and I to exchange a fraction of one bitcoin, between our PC's. It's another thing for a corporation selling to a wide international audience over the Internet to accept a large payment stream this way and to then integrate that payment stream into the existing monetary system (take it to the bank and deposit it in Dollar or Yuan denominated accounts, say, for payment to other corporate suppliers or as taxes to governments.)

[WEAREONE]

Realize this:

the ultimate power in the current societies of the world is the control of money... Bit coin FORCES volunteerism (anarchy) and will destroy corrupt centralized governments and bankers, utterly.

watch the videos above, this is very revolutionary.

The mathematical algorithms and their software implementation are a quite different way from generating money than digging in the earth for gold, or lending money into existence (in exchange for liens on future labor and property.) The early users, storing bitcoins on their own PC's, with at least a little computer savvy, can exchange bitcoins amongst each other outside the control of corporate or government institutions (though not outside NSA surveillance, I presume.)

However the connection of that technology, into the existing monetary and economic systems, provides (in my view) ample opportunity for the existing powers that be to continue to be in power.

The over whelming legal, police, compute, propaganda, surveillance, hacking, and economic powers of the current bastards in power enables them to control bitcoin, rather too easily.

We see this in the various take downs and corruptions of the servers that most people depend on for handling and (except for the PC savvy) storing their bitcoins, in the concentration of bitcoin mining to a few institutions, and in the volatility of the bitcoin to major currency conversion rates.

We also see this in the difficulties in integrating bitcoins with commerce on a large and international scale. It's one thing for you and I to exchange a fraction of one bitcoin, between our PC's. It's another thing for a corporation selling to a wide international audience over the Internet to accept a large payment stream this way and to then integrate that payment stream into the existing monetary system (take it to the bank and deposit it in Dollar or Yuan denominated accounts, say, for payment to other corporate suppliers or as taxes to governments.)


What about dark wallets, dark exchanges? project of cody wilson. Could that route not be a solution to government control. Also I have been following Zetacoin, their is lots of rumor and specualtion of a deal with mobile payments in Africa, M-Pesa is an example. Suppose it is just rumor. But eventually I believe those countries BRICS, and others who want to pull away from Cabal could back their own Crypto currency, could they not? I think Bitcoin is the start but the true revolution change has yet to be implemented. It would be fast transactions like Zetacoin, it would be very hard to trace and follow, such as dark wallets dark coins etc. It would have lots in backing by governments to help keep the nodes/network up and running properly. These things I could see happening. Could literally be the greatest invention for freedom. Perhaps a gift from the gods??? Very wishful thinking on my part but I do feel this as a possibility

[TargeT]

We see this in the various take downs and corruptions of the servers that most people depend on for handling and (except for the PC savvy) storing their bitcoins, in the concentration of bitcoin mining to a few institutions, and in the volatility of the bitcoin to major currency conversion rates.

We also see this in the difficulties in integrating bitcoins with commerce on a large and international scale. It's one thing for you and I to exchange a fraction of one bitcoin, between our PC's. It's another thing for a corporation selling to a wide international audience over the Internet to accept a large payment stream this way and to then integrate that payment stream into the existing monetary system (take it to the bank and deposit it in Dollar or Yuan denominated accounts, say, for payment to other corporate suppliers or as taxes to governments.)



to me I see a few things in this:

mostly the novelty and "newness" of Crypto-currencies (bitcoin etc.) the difficulty in handling is really probably very similar to handling small coins were originally where even to this day physical theft is still a very common issue.

Now there are methods where a bitcoin cannot be spent with out 2+ party authentication... this makes "stealing" bitcoins very very difficult, and makes escrow EASILY possible (now escrow services will arise around bitcoin, this and currency exchange are about the only "financial" services I see possible with bitcoin).

bitcoins are slowly creeping into commerce, I don't think the 100th monkey is that far away, there are (http://www.gizmag.com/tesla-model-s-bought-using-bitcoins/30048/)car dealerships (http://www.spford.com/)selling (http://articles.latimes.com/2013/dec/12/local/la-me-ln-lamborghini-bitcoin-20131212) cars in bitcoin (http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/6/5181864/lamborghini-dealership-starts-accepting-bitcoin). The integration to modern money is actually quite simple, the bitcoin is accepted and sold for cash immediately by the retailer (usually), and there is zero processing fee attached to it, so the consumer and seller both win (and this is the real power of crypto currencies).


the REAL power behind bitcoin is the blockchain. the blockchain is the true innovation, it can be used for so many things, it can be used for legal documents, for "pattenting" for publishing rights, for almost anything... the blockchain is the key and is what will make bitcoin universally used.

the power is in the public audit, the built in transparency.... something we almost completely lack today.






What about dark wallets, dark exchanges? project of cody wilson. Could that route not be a solution to government control. Also I have been following Zetacoin, their is lots of rumor and specualtion of a deal with mobile payments in Africa, M-Pesa is an example. Suppose it is just rumor. But eventually I believe those countries BRICS, and others who want to pull away from Cabal could back their own Crypto currency, could they not? I think Bitcoin is the start but the true revolution change has yet to be implemented. It would be fast transactions like Zetacoin, it would be very hard to trace and follow, such as dark wallets dark coins etc. It would have lots in backing by governments to help keep the nodes/network up and running properly. These things I could see happening. Could literally be the greatest invention for freedom. Perhaps a gift from the gods??? Very wishful thinking on my part but I do feel this as a possibility


"dark wallets" and "dark exchanges" are pointless, since every bitcoin interaction can be "below the radar" per - se, though the blockchain will still be visible to ensure it is a valid exchange (again, that's the beauty of bitcoin) the blockchain is how MT GOX will eventually be "solved" since as soon as those bitcoins are exchanged it will be known by all bitcoin users (via the blockchain).

BRICS countries are still run by institutions that value the control of money, they will absolutely NOT willingly go to a crypto currency that forces transparency on money expenditure.

The fact that bitcoin is so transparent in its transactions is what makes it so scary to TPTW; that is where it will triumph.

The blockchain is so important to understand, here's a good video on it:
-CI7XXzJDqo

I think this thing is going to come from NO-WHERE and hamstring TPTW; due to the simplicity and ease of adoption for the masses, the its been guessed that The number of Cellphones will surpass the global population in 2014 (http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/mobile-phone-world-population-2014/#!JJs1B) and all you need for bitcoin is a cellphone.

Think about it, this probably will spread like a global virus; so fast that current power structures will be completely helpless, no longer will wars be funded once we switch currencies, no longer will anything that the public does not agree on (black ops? assassinations?) happen, because money cannot be CREATED.

This is pretty huge.

[WEAREONE]

I still think the slow Bitcoin transaction times(relative) about 10 minutes is going to be a problem for mass adoption, get a cab ride and driver needs to wait for confirmations, There are 30 second transactions in Zetacoin, and other coins,,,, Perhaps there can be a bitcoin sidechain that will incorporate a speedier confirmation time.

BRICS and other countries will want control,,, I still see some countries wanting out of the cabal/IMF banksters to join forces at some point, and when that does happen what easier way then adopting some sort of crypto currency. They may be forced to choose less control than stay under the thumb of those in control.

Dark wallets/exchanges, and making it easier to keep your transactions private is IMHO going to be very popular in many situations. Look at China, I would imagine one way to get around PBOC decisions on Bitcoin is to go in a sense Dark. Surely you can imagine that benefit would take hold in places where people want liberty from tyranny, I bet it takes off in Texas for example. The nice/useful open transactions and in a sense open ledger of transactionsof Bitcoin is nice for some things, but the flip side is also huge. I cant imagine the idea of dark coins/dark exchanges not taking root and becoming a useful helpful tool for those that will need that extra buffer from oppressive eyes.

Either way I do see this technology/invention as very very interesting, could seriously change the world like we have not seen

[TargeT]

I still think the slow Bitcoin transaction times(relative) about 10 minutes is going to be a problem for mass adoption, get a cab ride and driver needs to wait for confirmations, There are 30 second transactions in Zetacoin, and other coins,,,, Perhaps there can be a bitcoin sidechain that will incorporate a speedier confirmation time.

That's the inherent security of bitcoin, which "zetacoin" and others don't seem to have and make them questionable really.. you get notification of transaction almost immediately, and since most people are honest and counterfeiting (while still fairly easy in the US) rarely happens, the person-to-person transitions will probably run just on notification unless it's a very large transaction, which then a hour for confirmation isn't that bad really (say for a car, or a house).



BRICS and other countries will want control,,, I still see some countries wanting out of the cabal/IMF banksters to join forces at some point, and when that does happen what easier way then adopting some sort of crypto currency. They may be forced to choose less control than stay under the thumb of those in control.

but not just control, they want creation power, that is how all governments have oppressed and controlled the people for all of history, they won't want to let go of this power.



Dark wallets/exchanges, and making it easier to keep your transactions private is IMHO going to be very popular in many situations.

how is bitcoin not private?


Look at China, I would imagine one way to get around PBOC decisions on Bitcoin is to go in a sense Dark. Surely you can imagine that benefit would take hold in places where people want liberty from tyranny, I bet it takes off in Texas for example. The nice/useful open transactions and in a sense open ledger of transactionsof Bitcoin is nice for some things, but the flip side is also huge. I cant imagine the idea of dark coins/dark exchanges not taking root and becoming a useful helpful tool for those that will need that extra buffer from oppressive eyes.

Either way I do see this technology/invention as very very interesting, could seriously change the world like we have not seen

I think both can exist together, I just don't understand the benefit to not having a public ledger that is verifiable by 100,000's of nodes (true, absolute decentralization).

Zero confirmations work fine for 95% of daily transactions, and WHO KNOWS what new fixes will come out, this is in it's infancy so far.

[ThePythonicCow]

Monetary systems which can be used to fund transactions in the global economy of humanity on planet earth must themselves be global, by some direct or indirect means.

Almost every human made thing before me, including of course all the equipment involved in getting this letter 'x' from my finger tips to your eyeballs, depends on thousands or millions of contributions from around the globe, to mine, transport, design, manufacture, assemble, stock, deliver, install, maintain, operate, train, market, finance, ...

Isolated monetary systems such as Monopoly games between friends work easily enough, but a bazillion dollars of such Monopoly money won't buy you a stick of chewing gum at the store. For that matter, even just getting such sticks of chewing gum so widely distributed, at such modest prices, requires immense, world-wide, economic infrastructure.

Crypto currencies are in some ways the "Internet" of money.

There is a difference however. Shared knowledge can be of value even when just two or three people share it. Sufficiently skilled people can privately share communications that are unknown to anyone else, even the NSA ... though just what level of skill is required for this is (highly) classified information if the information is of sufficient interest to a sufficiently sophisticated challenger.

The payment that I just sent some vendor in Korea for a particular nickel-metal-hydride (NiMH) rechargeable battery that I had use for, and that he had a manufacturing source for ... those few dollars end up being split thousands or millions of ways, across space and time.

Whatever means, whatever high powered infrastructure or whizbang algorithm, enables such nearly instantaneous, world-wide, coordination of monetary settlement value will require that most ordinary users, most of the time, trust some essentially unknowable (to them) algorithm, infrastructure or mechanism. That unknowable essence provides a certain choke point to any sufficiently sophisticated challenger.

The main alternative is personal trust. This works within small groups, such as very small groups (families, tribes, close neighbors or close friends) known to each other over time, against relatively unsophisticated challenges. It doesn't work for a Texan purchasing a special NiMH battery from a Korean vendor whose name the Texan can't even write or pronounce correctly.

It should go without saying that some of the challengers to any world-wide monetary system will be very sophisticated.

[risveglio]

This probably belongs in a different thread but I came across Ethereum today for the first time which sounds interesting but my knowledge is limited to this 19 minute video.

jCYdCaa4yaU

From video:

If Bitcoin is money over the internet, Ethereum is relationships over the internet.

Sorry about the creepy 80s horror movie tone between scenes. Here is a white paper for those who really want to dig in, I am not digging in tonight though.

https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/%5BEnglish%5D-White-Paper#why-a-new-platform