Oil is not a fossil fuel

[778 neighbour of some guy]

This has been touched on before in another thread, however not on the front page.

Not too far out there considering that "knowledge/science" is usually paid for with a certain outcome in mind by certain people, usually that outcome is intended to have a huge pay off, for those who benefit most, and since this short interview isn't any weirder than 95 percent of the stuff on this forum, have a look at it, its at least somewhat interesting to contemplate. So make of it what you will.

Col. Prouty on when, why and how the word "fossil" ended up in the "science" vocabulary regarding to oil, to promote the idea of scarcity and value.

LWuWqscwhb4

[Matt P]

Thank you 778 neighbor! Not far out there at all. I consider this as I consider 9/11 truth. Both are just massive falsehoods promoted by the control matrix to keep people under control and to profit. Now, this puts some recent events in a new light....the "alternative" media likes to say the true reason we invaded Iraq was the oil. Well, obviously the secret government and corporate conglomerate that waged this illegal occupation knew full well that oil was not a fossil fuel and was abundant. So, this was obviously NOT the reason. Yet, it was still about oil, as in their attempt to LIMIT the amount of oil pumped out by Iraq and, therefore, keep prices artificially inflated. This is another one of those secrets that must be contained at all costs, for if people realized how much money has been stolen from them over the decades, they will hang bankers and oil executives from every light post in the world.

[meat suit]

very good
however his point that oil cant be fossil, because there are no fossils below 1700feet is suspect, as oil could easily flow down to the depth that its found now..

[Wind]

Great clip, I saw that interview a while ago. Here is L. Fletcher Prouty's bio:


(January 24, 1917 – June 5, 2001)served as Chief of Special Operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff under President John F. Kennedy. A former colonel in the United States Air Force, he retired from military service to become a bank executive, and subsequently became a critic of U.S. foreign policy, particularly the covert activities of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) about which he had considerable inside knowledge. Prouty, along with Richard Case Nagell, was the inspiration for the character "Mr. X" in Oliver Stone's movie JFK.

Two interviews:

WeW4GcJ0oro
Qz56WytRlqo

[778 neighbour of some guy]

very good
however his point that oil cant be fossil, because there are no fossils below 1700feet is suspect, as oil could easily flow down to the depth that its found now..

True, and it certainly doesn't explain the Canadian tarsands away, I am not hearing any reports on oilworkers breaking their necks every three minutes on some frikking fossil every time they walk over to the shed for their lunch breaks either, might be interesting to look into, and I still don't know the origin of oil, but it does make the black goo stories somewhat more interesting.

[Taurean]

It is what it says it is, a Hydrocarbon.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

It is what it is, a Hydrocarbon.

From Science daily


Fossil fuel is a general term for buried combustible geologic deposits of organic materials, formed from decayed plants and animals that have been converted to crude oil, coal, natural gas, or heavy oils by exposure to heat and pressure in the earth's crust over hundreds of millions of years.

If you mean that is a fossil fuel ( dead crap) meaning it used to be alive, like us, that makes us hydrocarbons too and renewable..................., pump it up and keep it coming?

[Agape]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin

Abiogenic petroleum origin


Abiogenic petroleum origin is a hypothesis that was proposed as an alternative mechanism of petroleum origin. According to the abiogenic hypothesis, petroleum was formed from deep carbon deposits, perhaps dating to the formation of the Earth. Supporters of the abiogenic hypothesis suggest that a great deal more petroleum exists on Earth than commonly thought, and that petroleum may originate from carbon-bearing fluids that migrate upward from the mantle. The presence of huge amounts of methane on Saturn's moon Titan and in the atmospheres of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune is cited[1] as evidence of the formation of hydrocarbons without biology.[2]
The hypothesis was first proposed by Georg Agricola in the 16th century and various abiogenic hypotheses were proposed in the 19th century, most notably by Prussian geographer Alexander von Humboldt, the Russian chemist Dmitri Mendeleev and the French chemist Marcellin Berthelot. Abiogenic hypotheses were revived in the last half of the 20th century by Soviet scientists who had little influence outside the Soviet Union because most of their research was published in Russian. The hypothesis was re-defined and made popular in the West by Thomas Gold who published all his research in English.[1]
Although the abiogenic hypothesis was accepted by many geologists in the former Soviet Union, it fell out of favor at the end of the 20th century because it never made any useful prediction for the discovery of oil deposits.[1] The abiogenic origin of petroleum has also recently been reviewed in detail by Glasby, who raises a number of objections, including that there is no direct evidence to date of abiogenic petroleum (liquid crude oil and long-chain hydrocarbon compounds).[1] Geologists now consider the abiogenic formation of petroleum scientifically unsupported, and they agree that petroleum is formed from organic material.[1] However, some argue that the abiogenic theory cannot be dismissed yet because the mainstream theory still has to be established conclusively.[3]
It has been recently discovered that thermophilic bacteria, in the sea bottom and in cooling magma, produce methane and hydrocarbon gases,[4][5] but studies indicate they are not produced in commercially significant quantities (i.e. in extracted hydrocarbon gases, the median abiogenic hydrocarbon content is 0.02%, or 1 part in 5,000).



History of the abiogenic hypothesis[edit]

The abiogenic hypothesis is usually traced to the early part of the 19th century. At the time, the chemical nature of petroleum was not known.
Alexander von Humboldt was the first to propose an inorganic abiogenic hypothesis for petroleum formation after he observed petroleum springs in the Bay of Cumaux (Cumaná) on the northeast coast of Venezuela.[7] In 1804 he is quoted as saying, "petroleum is the product of a distillation from great depth and issues from the primitive rocks beneath which the forces of all volcanic action lie." Abraham Gottlob Werner and the proponents of neptunism in the 18th century believed basaltic sills to be solidified oils or bitumen. While these notions have been proven unfounded, the basic idea that petroleum is associated with magmatism persisted. Other prominent proponents of what would become the abiogenic hypothesis included Mendeleev[8] and Berthelot.
Russian geologist Nikolai Alexandrovitch Kudryavtsev proposed the modern abiotic hypothesis of petroleum in 1951. On the basis of his analysis of the Athabasca Oil Sands in Alberta, Canada, he concluded that no "source rocks" could form the enormous volume of hydrocarbons, and that therefore the most plausible explanation is abiotic deep petroleum. However, humic coals have since been proposed for the source rocks.[9] Kudryavtsev's work was continued by Petr N. Kropotkin, Vladimir B. Porfir'ev, Emmanuil B. Chekaliuk, Vladilen A. Krayushkin, Georgi E. Boyko, Georgi I. Voitov, Grygori N. Dolenko, Iona V. Greenberg, Nikolai S. Beskrovny, and Victor F. Linetsky.
Astronomer Thomas Gold was the most prominent proponent of the abiogenic hypothesis in the West until his death in 2004.[1] More recently, Jack Kenney of Gas Resources Corporation has come to prominence



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Gold



More on the page ..


:angel:

[778 neighbour of some guy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin

Abiogenic petroleum origin


Abiogenic petroleum origin is a hypothesis that was proposed as an alternative mechanism of petroleum origin. According to the abiogenic hypothesis, petroleum was formed from deep carbon deposits, perhaps dating to the formation of the Earth. Supporters of the abiogenic hypothesis suggest that a great deal more petroleum exists on Earth than commonly thought, and that petroleum may originate from carbon-bearing fluids that migrate upward from the mantle. The presence of huge amounts of methane on Saturn's moon Titan and in the atmospheres of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune is cited[1] as evidence of the formation of hydrocarbons without biology.[2]
The hypothesis was first proposed by Georg Agricola in the 16th century and various abiogenic hypotheses were proposed in the 19th century, most notably by Prussian geographer Alexander von Humboldt, the Russian chemist Dmitri Mendeleev and the French chemist Marcellin Berthelot. Abiogenic hypotheses were revived in the last half of the 20th century by Soviet scientists who had little influence outside the Soviet Union because most of their research was published in Russian. The hypothesis was re-defined and made popular in the West by Thomas Gold who published all his research in English.[1]
Although the abiogenic hypothesis was accepted by many geologists in the former Soviet Union, it fell out of favor at the end of the 20th century because it never made any useful prediction for the discovery of oil deposits.[1] The abiogenic origin of petroleum has also recently been reviewed in detail by Glasby, who raises a number of objections, including that there is no direct evidence to date of abiogenic petroleum (liquid crude oil and long-chain hydrocarbon compounds).[1] Geologists now consider the abiogenic formation of petroleum scientifically unsupported, and they agree that petroleum is formed from organic material.[1] However, some argue that the abiogenic theory cannot be dismissed yet because the mainstream theory still has to be established conclusively.[3]
It has been recently discovered that thermophilic bacteria, in the sea bottom and in cooling magma, produce methane and hydrocarbon gases,[4][5] but studies indicate they are not produced in commercially significant quantities (i.e. in extracted hydrocarbon gases, the median abiogenic hydrocarbon content is 0.02%, or 1 part in 5,000).



History of the abiogenic hypothesis[edit]

The abiogenic hypothesis is usually traced to the early part of the 19th century. At the time, the chemical nature of petroleum was not known.
Alexander von Humboldt was the first to propose an inorganic abiogenic hypothesis for petroleum formation after he observed petroleum springs in the Bay of Cumaux (Cumaná) on the northeast coast of Venezuela.[7] In 1804 he is quoted as saying, "petroleum is the product of a distillation from great depth and issues from the primitive rocks beneath which the forces of all volcanic action lie." Abraham Gottlob Werner and the proponents of neptunism in the 18th century believed basaltic sills to be solidified oils or bitumen. While these notions have been proven unfounded, the basic idea that petroleum is associated with magmatism persisted. Other prominent proponents of what would become the abiogenic hypothesis included Mendeleev[8] and Berthelot.
Russian geologist Nikolai Alexandrovitch Kudryavtsev proposed the modern abiotic hypothesis of petroleum in 1951. On the basis of his analysis of the Athabasca Oil Sands in Alberta, Canada, he concluded that no "source rocks" could form the enormous volume of hydrocarbons, and that therefore the most plausible explanation is abiotic deep petroleum. However, humic coals have since been proposed for the source rocks.[9] Kudryavtsev's work was continued by Petr N. Kropotkin, Vladimir B. Porfir'ev, Emmanuil B. Chekaliuk, Vladilen A. Krayushkin, Georgi E. Boyko, Georgi I. Voitov, Grygori N. Dolenko, Iona V. Greenberg, Nikolai S. Beskrovny, and Victor F. Linetsky.
Astronomer Thomas Gold was the most prominent proponent of the abiogenic hypothesis in the West until his death in 2004.[1] More recently, Jack Kenney of Gas Resources Corporation has come to prominence





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Gold



More on the page ..


:angel:

Aha, here's the problem;)

[Carmody]

I thought all this was settled. That only some portions of the western public believed this tale they'd been told.

Oil comes from the chemical reactions in the rocks. All the gasses, the oxides, an academical stew - in breakdown.

The Russians believed it well enough that they drilled below 50kft, expecting a positive result...and found oil and gas, almost every time.

Drilling below 50,000 ft, is a fairly new thing, it could not be reliably done in the past.

There's no oil and gas shortage..it's everywhere. Constantly renewing itself.

Then the entire gulf coast mess, that was from going after proto-petroleum. It's not even fully formed yet, in that particular case.

[Atlas]

Abiogenic Origin of Hydrocarbons: An Historical Overview by Geoffrey P. GLASBY

http://www.zo.utexas.edu/courses/Thoc/Glasby2006-abioticOil.pdf


There is no doubt that our research proves that crude oil and natural gas are generated without the involvement of fossils. All types of bedrock can serve as reservoirs of oil

Hydrocarbon by Vladimir Kutcherov and Anton Kolesnikov (2013) -(Download PDF (http://tmtfree.hd.free.fr/albums/files/TMTisFree/Documents/Energy/Hydrocarbon.pdf), 6MB)

[Agape]

Example proposed abiogenic methane deposits[edit]
Panhandle-Hugoton field (Anadarko Basin) in the south-central United States is the most important gas field with commercial helium content. Some abiogenic proponents interpret this as evidence that both the helium and the natural gas came from the mantle.[37][38][50][51]
The Bạch Hổ oil field in Vietnam has been proposed as an example of abiogenic oil because it is 4,000 m of fractured basement granite, at a depth of 5,000 m.[52] However, others argue that it contains biogenic oil which leaked into the basement horst from conventional source rocks within the Cuu Long basin.[16][53]
A major component of mantle-derived carbon is indicated in commercial gas reservoirs in the Pannonian and Vienna basins of Hungary and Austria.[54]
Natural gas pools interpreted as being mantle-derived are the Shengli Field[55] and Songliao Basin, northeastern China.[56][57]
The Chimaera gas seep, near Çıralı, Antalya (southwest Turkey), has been continuously active for millennia and it is known to be the source of the first Olympic fire in the Hellenistic period. On the basis of chemical composition and isotopic analysis, the Chimaera gas is said to be about half biogenic and half abiogenic gas, the largest emission of biogenic methane discovered; deep and pressurized gas accumulations necessary to sustain the gas flow for millennia, posited to be from an inorganic source, may be present.[39] Local geology of Chimaera flames, at exact position of flames, reveals contact between serpentinized ophiolite and carbonate rocks. Fischer-Tropsch process can be suitable reaction to form hydrocarbons gases.


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/rog.20011/abstract


Over the last 30 years, geochemical research has demonstrated that abiotic methane (CH4), formed by chemical reactions which do not directly involve organic matter, occurs on Earth in several specific geologic environments. It can be produced by either high-temperature magmatic processes in volcanic and geothermal areas, or via low-temperature (<100°C) gas-water-rock reactions in continental settings, even at shallow depths. The isotopic composition of C and H is a first step in distinguishing abiotic from biotic (including either microbial or thermogenic) CH4. Herein we demonstrate that integrated geochemical diagnostic techniques, based on molecular composition of associated gases, noble gas isotopes, mixing models, and a detailed knowledge of the geologic and hydrogeologic context are necessary to confirm the occurrence of abiotic CH4 in natural gases, which are frequently mixtures of multiple sources. Although it has been traditionally assumed that abiotic CH4 is mainly related to mantle-derived or magmatic processes, a new generation of data is showing that low-temperature synthesis related to gas-water-rock reactions is more common than previously thought. This paper reviews the major sources of abiotic CH4 and the primary approaches for differentiating abiotic from biotic CH4, including novel potential tools such as clumped isotope geochemistry. A diagnostic approach for differentiation is proposed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22679287


Molecular hydrogen (H(2)) is derived from the hydrothermal alteration of olivine-rich planetary crust. Abiotic and biotic processes consume H(2) to produce methane (CH(4)); however, the extent of either process is unknown. Here, we assess the temporal dependence and limit of abiotic CH(4) related to the presence and formation of mineral catalysts during olivine hydrolysis (i.e., serpentinization) at 200 °C and 0.03 gigapascal. Results indicate that the rate of CH(4) production increases to a maximum value related to magnetite catalyzation. By identifying the dynamics of CH(4) production, we kinetically model how the H(2) to CH(4) ratio may be used to assess the origin of CH(4) in deep subsurface serpentinization systems on Earth and Mars. Based on our model and available field data, low H(2)/CH(4) ratios (less than approximately 40) indicate that life is likely present and active.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16689652



Abstract
Ophiolites, sections of ocean crust tectonically displaced onto land, offer significant potential to support chemolithoautotrophic life through the provision of energy and reducing power during aqueous alteration of their highly reduced mineralogies. There is substantial chemical disequilibrium between the primary olivine and pyroxene mineralogy of these ophiolites and the fluids circulating through them. This disequilibrium represents a potential source of chemical energy that could sustain life. Moreover, E (h)-pH conditions resulting from rock- water interactions in ultrabasic rocks are conducive to important abiotic processes antecedent to the origin of life. Serpentinization--the reaction of olivine- and pyroxene-rich rocks with water--produces magnetite, hydroxide, and serpentine minerals, and liberates molecular hydrogen, a source of energy and electrons that can be readily utilized by a broad array of chemosynthetic organisms. These systems are viewed as important analogs for potential early ecosystems on both Earth and Mars, where highly reducing mineralogy was likely widespread in an undifferentiated crust. Secondary phases precipitated during serpentinization have the capability to preserve organic or mineral biosignatures. We describe the petrology and mineral chemistry of an ophiolite-hosted cold spring in northern California and propose criteria to aid in the identification of serpentinizing terranes on Mars that have the potential to harbor chemosynthetic life.


http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:466347/FULLTEXT01.pdf


Abiotic and biotic methane dynamics in relation to the origin of life

Nguyen Thanh Duc ( Stockholm , 2012 )

http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:466347/FULLTEXT01.pdf

[Lifebringer]

Do you think it could be all the decomposed and dead that have resulted in wars and torture over the years that the soil filters until it becomes the black goo, that so many text talk of when we die? The separation in the grave that drains? Dinos, mammoths, ancient gigantic creatures that decomposed and their bodily waste separated in the soils at that depth? IDK...after 4 turns of the planet and the redoing of it all, it makes me wonder if it all settled and now there's not much left, unless the cemetaries are also acting as fuel as the graves and bodies decompose. It made me think of Louisiana, and all the oil wells there when there were so many that died in all the wars and during Katrina. Does it all just settle and turn to black goo for fuel, because all these wars and bodies must stand for something, and I keep wondering what's the point in all the deaths and mass graves, and all the gases that come from those pits?

[Agape]

For billions of years ... the Earth was covered by oceans of methane and propane , with rare gases included in the mixture .. that's as it's surface was slowly cooling down and crust was formed ,
the oxygen atmosphere as we know it now followed the solid crust formation and terraforming of the gaseous atmosphere ..it's sinking to the innards of the Earth .

In the first pro-methanic Earth there may have been plenty of very different and mostly simple bacterial life though it's rather hard to judge by todays standards .. as that type of life was fragile and there are not many living remnants of it except for few extremophiles : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremophile

They may have taken very important part in the first pro-biotic terraforming of biosphere that was very underdeveloped and virtually destroyed by its own poisons ,

to be later replaced by oxygenated atmosphere and aerobic protozoa and plant life ..

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/03/19/early_earth_organic_haze_atmosphere/

[Frederick Jackson]

For billions of years ... the Earth was covered by oceans of methane and propane , with rare gases included in the mixture .. that's as it's surface was slowly cooling down and crust was formed ,
the oxygen atmosphere as we know it now followed the solid crust formation and terraforming of the gaseous atmosphere ..it's sinking to the innards of the Earth .

In the first pro-methanic Earth there may have been plenty of very different and mostly simple bacterial life though it's rather hard to judge by todays standards .. as that type of life was fragile and there are not many living remnants of it except for few extremophiles : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremophile

They may have taken very important part in the first pro-biotic terraforming of biosphere that was very underdeveloped and virtually destroyed by its own poisons ,

to be later replaced by oxygenated atmosphere and aerobic protozoa and plant life ..

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/03/19/early_earth_organic_haze_atmosphere/

Very interesting idea Agape. Even now total bacteria on the surface and interior of the earth may outweigh plants and animals. And then if you consider possibly BILLIONSof years rather then millions of years to accumulate and transform the bacteria, it makes an awfully interesting hypothesis.

[Shannow]

very good
however his point that oil cant be fossil, because there are no fossils below 1700feet is suspect, as oil could easily flow down to the depth that its found now..

Given that coal is found below 4,000 feet, and coal is both a hydrocarbon, and clearly of fossil origin (in that structures are clearly visible, AND fossils are found in the layers above and below coal seams, the 1700 feet "fossil" limit is highly suspect.

Simple chemical equilibrium gives that carbonate rocks, steam, heat and metallic oxide catalysts will produce some hydrocarbons, both simple and complex...SOME oil will therefore be abiotic, and the russians finding a lack of furans halps that argument.

However, some/most/nearly all oil is of biological origin.

[Agape]

Very interesting idea Agape. Even now total bacteria on the surface and interior of the earth may outweigh plants and animals. And then if you consider possibly BILLIONSof years rather then millions of years to accumulate and transform the bacteria, it makes an awfully interesting hypothesis.

See what amazing abilities some of these ancient bacteria may have had ..and some still do, abilities that are naturally reserved for simple forms of life .. since more complex and complicated is organism ( in certain 'evolution life lines' anyway ) more sophisticated immunity it produces against any 'exogenic information' .

Note these archaic organisms though .. some of whom could exchange and even repair each others DNA ..and it seems that their life cycle was not far from one of water bubbles .. they took massive part in reforming the oceans and atmosphere of ancient earth, talking of billions of years ..before there was enough oxygen released and filling the atmosphere to allow more intelligent life , namely the one growing up-wards.

In the meantime , those massive amounts of liquid hydrocarbons obliterating the planets surface could not simply disappear ..they were heavier than liquid water that seemed to present from earths early history as well and they had to sink ,
so talking of the emerging crust of newly forming continents .. there have to be large deposits of these sunk oily substances in some areas .. which does not automatically mean they 're distributed equally around the globe .



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremophile


DNA transfer[edit]

Over 65 prokaryotic species are known to be naturally competent for genetic transformation, the ability to transfer DNA from one cell to another cell followed by integration of the donor DNA into the recipient cell’s chromosome.[25] Several extremophiles are able to carry out species-specific DNA transfer, as described below. However, it is not yet clear how common such a capability is among extremophiles.
The bacterium Deinococcus radiodurans is one of the most radioresistant organisms known. This bacterium can also survive cold, dehydration, vacuum and acid and is thus known as a polyextremophile. D. radiodurans is competent to perform genetic transformation.[26] Recipient cells are able to repair DNA damage in donor transforming DNA that had been UV irradiated as efficiently as they repair cellular DNA when the cells themselves are irradiated. The extreme thermophilic bacterium Thermus thermophilus and other related Thermus species are also capable of genetic transformation.[27]
Halobacterium volcanii, an extreme halophilic archaeon, is capable of natural genetic transformation. Cytoplasmic bridges are formed between cells that appear to be used for DNA transfer from one cell to another in either direction.[28]
Sulfolobus solfataricus and Sulfolobus acidocaldarius are hyperthermophilic archaea. Exposure of these organisms to the DNA damaging agents UV irradiation, bleomycin or mitomycin C induces species-specific cellular aggregation.[29][30] UV-induced cellular aggregation of S. acidocaldarius mediates chromosomal marker exchange with high frequency.[30] Recombination rates exceed those of uninduced cultures by up to three orders of magnitude. Frols et al.[29] and Ajon et al.[30] hypothesized that cellular aggregation enhances species-specific DNA transfer between Sulfolobus cells in order to repair damaged DNA by means of homologous recombination. Van Wolferen et al.[31] noted that this DNA exchange process may be crucial under DNA damaging conditions such as high temperatures. It has also been suggested that DNA transfer in Sulfolobus may be an early form of sexual interaction similar to the more well-studied bacterial transformation systems that involve species-specific DNA transfer leading to homologous recombinational repair of DNA damage[32] (and see Transformation (genetics)).
Extracellular membrane vesicles (MVs) might be involved in DNA transfer between different hyperthermophilic archaeal species.[33] It has been shown that both plasmids[34] and viral genomes[33] can be transferred via MVs. Notably, a horizontal plasmid transfer has been documented between hyperthermophilic Thermococcus and Methanocaldococcus species, respectively belonging to the orders Thermococcales and Methanococcales.

Also ..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanotroph

Methanotroph


Methanotrophs (sometimes called methanophiles) are prokaryotes that are able to metabolize methane as their only source of carbon and energy. They can grow aerobically or anaerobically and require single-carbon compounds to survive. Under aerobic conditions, they combine oxygen and methane to form formaldehyde, which is then incorporated into organic compounds via the serine pathway or the RuMP pathway. Type I methanotrophs are part of the Gammaproteobacteria and they use the ribulose monophosphate (RuMP) pathway to assimilate carbon. On the other hand, type II methanotrophs are part of the Alphaproteobacteria and utilize the Serine pathway of carbon assimilation. They also characteristically have a system of internal membranes within which methane oxidation occurs. Methanotrophs occur mostly in soils, and are especially common near environments where methane is produced. Their habitats include oceans, mud, marshes, underground environments, soils, rice paddies and landfills. They are of special interest to researchers studying global warming, as they are significant in the global methane budget

[TargeT]

However, some/most/nearly all oil is of biological origin.

Please back up your statements, simply saying something you know (or think you know) doesn't help the rest of us learn.

provide links to content etc..

[meat suit]

very good
however his point that oil cant be fossil, because there are no fossils below 1700feet is suspect, as oil could easily flow down to the depth that its found now..

Given that coal is found below 4,000 feet, and coal is both a hydrocarbon, and clearly of fossil origin (in that structures are clearly visible, AND fossils are found in the layers above and below coal seams, the 1700 feet "fossil" limit is highly suspect.

Simple chemical equilibrium gives that carbonate rocks, steam, heat and metallic oxide catalysts will produce some hydrocarbons, both simple and complex...SOME oil will therefore be abiotic, and the russians finding a lack of furans halps that argument.

However, some/most/nearly all oil is of biological origin.

apologies... 17000 feet not 1700...

[Shannow]

However, some/most/nearly all oil is of biological origin.

Please back up your statements, simply saying something you know (or think you know) doesn't help the rest of us learn.

provide links to content etc..

SOME is definitely abiotic, it's simple chemical equilibrium
SOME is biological, the presence of furans indicates that, exactly as it is used as an indicator of cellulose degradation in power transformers.

The mix of the two is somewhere in the middle...some/most/nearly all...shades of grey, going from nearly all abiotic to nearly all biological.

People pushing eternal abundance of energy present the all abiotic origin, the radical greens push the all biological. It's somwhere in the middle, I don't know where.

But if YOU DO..then please provide your supportive evidence/links.

What about coal, which I also mentioned, which is almost certainly biological in origin...you can find your own links for that, or finds some coal and look at it...you can even find coal that's nearly plant matter, all the way to nearly pure hydrocarbon.

[Shannow]

apologies... 17000 feet not 1700...

All good, that's another rabbit burrow to jump down.

[Agape]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/deep-earth-has-oceans-worth-of-water-10-diamond-reveals-1.2569564

Deep Earth has oceans' worth of water, $10 diamond reveals
University of Alberta researchers find 'meteorite mineral' that formed naturally on our planet

A dirty, $10 diamond with a prize inside has helped reveal that there are vast quantities of water stored deep inside the Earth.

The diamond formed in the "transition zone" around 410 to 660 kilometres below our planet's surface. Analysis of a mineral grain trapped inside it suggests that it came from surroundings that were about one per cent water, report researchers led by University of Alberta geochemist Graham Pearson. They published their findings online in the journal Nature today.

If the sample is representative of that part of the deep Earth, the amount of water there could be "about the same as the mass of all the world’s oceans combined," wrote Hans Keppler, a geophysicist at the University of Bayreuth in Germany, in an analysis article.

That, in turn, changes our understanding of the way water cycles through our planet, and has implications for the way tectonic plates and volcanoes behave, Pearson notes.

Meteorite mineral from Earth

Previously, geophysicists had debated about whether there could be water in the transition zone. Geophysical measurements from the surface had provided conflicting results.

The new, hard evidence that there is water deep in the Earth comes from a tiny grain of rock — just four-hundredths of a millimetre in diameter — trapped inside the diamond.

That grain was made of ringwoodite — a form of the green mineral peridot that has never before been found on Earth, except in meteorites from space. That's because, like a diamond itself, it can only be made under extremely high pressures like those found so deep inside the Earth that they are inaccessible to humans.

"You can't run a field trip to those areas," Pearson said in a phone interview. "No one's ever even going to drill to those areas."

Typically, the amount of water in peridot is "vanishingly small," Pearson added.

But he and his colleagues probed the ringwoodite in the diamond with different kinds of light and looked for the signature of water. Their analysis showed the sample contained 1.5 per cent water by weight, suggesting that the transition zone where it formed is about one per cent water.

The layers of Earth above and below the transition zone, called the upper and lower mantles respectively, are each known to be "a desert for water," Pearson said.

"What we've found is an oasis of water in the transition zone."

A lot of that water was likely carried down by tectonic plates that were originally at the bottom of the oceans, Pearson said — "water that we would call recycled, that comes from Earth's surface and then is put back down into the Earth."

Although scientists hadn't acknowledged until recently that the planet's water might make these kinds of underground voyages, it makes sense, Pearson added. That's because huge amounts of water from the depths of the Earth are constantly being spewed by volcanoes into the oceans and atmosphere.

"If that weren't replenished, then the interior of the Earth would just become a dry desert," he said. "So it's part of what we call the water cycle."

The water now known to exist deep in Earth may help scientists better understand major geological processes.

"Really it's the essence of how plate tectonics works, because water weakens rocks," Pearson said. "And also, water lowers the melting point of rock, so water dictates where many of the Earth's volcanoes are found."




....