Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

[Dawn]

This is a very big surprise to me. It is coming after a time of intense change and study that I have been embarked upon. As a former Zen student, yoga teacher, and healer this really means a big change in viewpoint for me. If it is true it could explain a lot of strange things that have happened in my life. Here's the link to the information:

http://www.thejinn.net/chi_jinn_my_story.htm

This article is really chilling, and very convincing. I know many members of Avalon are students of various Eastern arts and have spent some time in meditation. Therefore this topic is important to look into. Here is a small quote from this excellent and detailed article:


I began learning martial arts over a decade ago, I was always very keen and took great interest not only in the physical sciences of the art but also the spiritual aspects. I studied many systems during this time including both Japanese and Chinese systems (both northern and southern systems as well as internal and external systems). All my instructors were of the highest calibre, including a Shaolin Monk from China, Grand Masters and national champions (and if I was to provide you with their names I don’t think anyone would dispute their skill and genuine martial arts lineage)......

It was upon doing some prelimary research on the subject of Sleep paralysis which consists of a period of inability to perform voluntary movements either at sleep onset (called hypnogogic or predormital form) or upon awakening (called hypnopompic or postdormital form) that I began to discover that this was often associated with withcraft and magic throughout history, where the term the old Hag was frequently used and is still used to describe a demon, ghost, etc. that sits upon their victim's chest, causing paralysis and sometimes making it hard to breathe. I decided to investigate further and read a book bought by my brother titled "The Exorcist Tradition in Islam" By Dr. Bilal Philips University of Wales. In it the author describes these symptoms of sleep paralysis as the beginning signs of demonic/jinn possession. However still not adequately convinced of any sinister goings on I decided to continue my interests in the martial arts.

This is not a fear porn post because I also would like to include information on how to remove Jinn. However first I'd like to point you to this very detailed story. If you look at the entire story and see all the supporting article links you will likely come to the conclusion that our western spiritual culture may have been totally compromised through what amounts to Jinn (demonic) rituals: http://www.thejinn.net/truth_about_spontaneous_chi.htm

Here is the jewel of the above story: http://www.thejinn.net/chi_jinn_my_story.htm
He talks about his exorcism and about vomiting up an mixing bowl sized amount of ectoplasm. It is both icky and hopeful that such help is available.


After 30 mins of this the Sheikh then told me to take the headphones off and sit in the centre of the room were he's assistants were waiting. He asked me to take on a different sitting posture (sitting on my legs with my palms on top). One of the Sheikhs assistants who was behind me that then took a hold of my head and then forced hold of my eye lids putting some unusual drops into my eyes. The pain was excruciating. I began to cry, however all was not as it seemed. My control over my body became less so and although I was feeling the pain from the eye drop which was resonating throughout my body it wasn't all being born my me. Something very unusual began to surface from inside me and was being hit by the pain caused by the eye drops. At this point I began crying excessively however it wasn't myself crying, I was almost like a spectator in my own body watching something else within me suffering and undergoing great torment. The Sheikh began yelling "leave him!!! leave him or else you will have to undergo more of this!!!". The assistants at this point were holding me either side due to the violent uncontrollable nature by which I was swaying and trying to break out of the sitting position the Sheikh had asked me to adopt. The Sheikh then asked me to recite certain verses of the Quran, but I was unable to. He came over to me sat down and started praying over me. Whilst I was crying my lips would utter sounds and speech of "naay, don't, naay" as well as some other sounds I was unfamiliar with. I was also spitting out a lots of saliva and nasal mucus was coming out of my nose, my whole face was awash with tears. He took some water and splashed it over my neck, then all of a sudden I was able to recite.

Gradually the effects of the drops began to wear off as the pain began to subside and the crying slowed down and then eventually stopped. I was later told that the jinns see through the eyes of the human and that the ointment that the sheikh put into my eyes was also tantamount to putting it into the eyes of the jinn itself as well. Also the pain that I felt correlated with the power & control the jinns had over me.

And finally, here is a short video of an Imam removing Jinns from a man:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9P7aOLe3Tg

[Synchronicity]

I do think there is plenty of reason for some to want people to be afraid of any energy work that really can help us become whole and healthy. Sleep paralysis is our body's way of keeping us from acting out dreams and keeping us safe. My ex once leapt off the bed as he dreamed he was playing basketball lunging for the ball, and if I hadn't grabbed his pj collar he would have bashed his head on the wall. He did things like that in his sleep sometimes and it was listed as a side effect of a drug he had to take. Lack of sleep paralysis could be fatal, and he did end up hurting himself a few times before they changed his meds. So if there is negative energy around at those more vulnerable times it would makes sense that the sometimes frightening experiences of the sleep paralysis while somewhat or fairly awake combined with negative energy in a room or someone/thing around or attached would make for a frightening experience. It happens more often when a person is very tired or stressed, too, and can be from a "malfunction" of the waking/going to sleep functions where paralysis continues for a bit when it should turn off as a person wakes. I'm not saying there's no supernatural aspect to it sometimes, but it really is based on a protective bodily function gone awry.

Now we are more open as we fall asleep and wake, and we are headed into and out of light dreaming states. I have visitors as I fall asleep or wake, and I have tell them to come back when I am awake and can help them. I'm just wondering why submit to something traumatic and painful if a person isn't in distress? And there are much simpler ways to remove attachments or anyone around a person without doing something like that if indeed there is one. Many, many people meditate and do yoga, journey, and so forth without taking on an evil presence, and I think that at least part of that reaction was to the whole exorcism ritual and situation. There just isn't any need for pain and fear if there truly is something attached or around us. A trained, ethical shaman/shamanic practitioner or even other ethical, trained energy workers can help determine if there is something attached, and it is more likely to attach if we don't take care of ourselves energetically than if we do with meditation, yoga, and safe journeying.

Now if someone is around negative energy, attracts it with negativity or for some other reason, or is weak physically, energetically, or emotionally it does happen and can need removal, and some carry attachments from childhood dysfunctional homes, but from training and experience I would respectfully suggest that meditation done with a positive intent when people don't invite anyone who wants to come into them to come (which is seriously dangerous) is really beneficial, and that yoga, done safely and with positive intent, isn't going to attract something negative and evil. And if a person had something, there are much simpler and less traumatic ways to remove them. I don't see that anything was really removed from him that was proven to come from meditation or yoga? The whole idea seems fear-based to me personally.

I'm not saying there is only one way to look at anything, but I see the opposite situation really often...almost daily. Perhaps there was another reason for the strange things that happened in your life...not saying nothing was around you or attached, and if you did yoga or meditated in a place with a lot of negative people and/or energy I can see a problem, but the practices themselves done safely don't bring in evil. I have seen things like this and dire warnings posted on religious sites, but their goal is to get people to turn to them and to fear what can really help us think for ourselves and connect to our inner voice and some amazing things that can be healing on many levels.

I am not telling you you are wrong, per se, but that what you showed here is from a religion that sure doesn't want people meditating or thinking for themselves, so it doesn't convince me personally of anything except remind me to be very, very careful and leery of people who may have ulterior agendas and want my undivided loyalty. Just my take on it...I wish you healing from whatever you were trying to figure out, but I personally don't buy that it was an evil spirit coming into anyone during properly done meditation or yoga. I wish you peace with this whatever you decide is right for you :)

[Dawn]

Perhaps there was another reason for the strange things that happened in your life...not saying nothing was around you or attached, and if you did yoga or meditated in a place with a lot of negative people and/or energy I can see a problem, but the practices themselves done safely don't bring in evil. I have seen things like this and dire warnings posted on religious sites, but their goal is to get people to turn to them and to fear what can really help us think for ourselves and connect to our inner voice and some amazing things that can be healing on many levels.

If you had read the articles carefully you would know that a portion of the jinn are considered helpful and even holy. This issue is whether you want to deal with something you do not understand and that is pretty tricky. I have never done anything that I was aware of with 'negative people', and I remember many lifetimes as a yogi, and as a healer in many native cultures across the planet.... but I did not realize that I am working with Jinn.

I have many healing clients, from my 20 years of work as a healer, that would tell you they received tremendous help from me and they are still grateful. However, I am aware that I have something in my body which is not human and which would rather kill me than allow me to be free of it. This is not sovereignty. This is an invasion. I'm sure that sometime in the distant past I made an agreement or decision to work with these beings, but this memory has been cut off from me, which does not allow me to end things without some help at this point.

As far as whether I had negative people around me or some type of bad energy when I meditated I would say definitely not. In fact, I spent most of my time meditating in the deep and beautiful pristine oak woodlands of California's coastal hills.

Syncronicity (and any one else reading this post).... Please read both articles completely, look into the supporting material cited in them, and watch the video before commenting.

Believe me, I have totally believed in what you are saying... but 30 years of meditation and the advanced energies and sities that come with them have been very challenging. My kundalini awoke a long time ago. I am clairvoyant, clairaudiant, telepathic, and so on. I have done various work with prana and chi for a long time. I have changed my mind that the things I have experienced and am still enduring are good. This article is a fresh breath of clean air for me.

[OMG]

I am a life long martial artist, lineage holder and deeply spiritual person. These type of discussions, observations, etc, have been of great interest to me over the years.

A couple points:


It is my experience that no one or no thing can possess you if you do not allow it.

Regardless of any situation you find your self in as long as you're conscious you can "choose" how you will handle an experience (for good, bad, etc).


If there is an "enemy" maybe it's within unconscious deeds and submissions...

[Sunny-side-up]

I am a life long martial artist, lineage holder and deeply spiritual person. These type of discussions, observations, etc, have been of great interest to me over the years.

A couple points:


It is my experience that no one or no thing can possess you if you do not allow it.

Regardless of any situation you find your self in as long as you're conscious you can "choose" how you will handle an experience (for good, bad, etc).


If there is an "enemy" maybe it's within unconscious deeds and submissions...

Great post Dawn and I still think even after a few posts here in Avalon that the subject of the Jinn needs working on!

OMG yes this happened to me in my early meditative exploration years. I found myself face-to-face with what people now tell me was a Jinn, but I somehow already knew it was a jinn at the time also!

Thing is I ventured (Really Pushed) down a dark meditative route, I wanted to find something out and confront it (I now know a lot my strengthening work is need first Doh)
! Well I found it but was in a dream like state by the time I did, so it took me by surprise. I don't know how long I was in the confrontation or what I might have agreed to!
I do know I had a burst of quickened consciousness afterwards, but! also a string of unhappy luck. You see I snapped out of my trance like state and pulled away from the entity in a rather rude way!



Looking back I don't think it was a good entity because of it's rather frightening visual form, I say this because the Jinn are masters of shape shifting so it could have presented it self in a less shocking way.

Thing about any mediation or mind work is to set up clean, safe bounders first with a prayer or the like. Make sure you set up the conditions first that you will not make any unconscious agreements!

Good Intent as well!

This just a quick reply gotta dash, will re-read you start post and probably re-post some more:)

Well done and good luck with your climbing back on top of your gained knowledge , in-charge of your self that is!

Love, Peace and Hugs
Alan

[TheVoyager]

Dawn, as I am aware of, there are not so many safe ways to deal with inter dimensional interferences. Some of them claim to expel those forces out of the person, but… where do those forces go after that? Well, they jump into the next available vehicle (body), very often into the present practitioners.

The best technique that I know of for this kind of clearings is called Holographic Kinetics, which is based on the ancient Aboriginal knowledge of the laws of Lore.

We've made many conscious and unconscius agreements and agreements of entrapment through our life (and many lifetimes). Every time we call something external in, we open the doors of our vehicle to that external energy. That is a valid agreement that gives that external energy the right to use our vehicle for their agenda. And every agreement is valid until we brake it.
We might have even decided to incarnate into a vehicle that already has attached external interferences which are coming through the genetic line. We might have entered the games of others and opened ourselves to their attachments (very easy to do when one is a healer and does not know the laws od Lore). Traumatic experiences open our etheric field and make us vulnerable for other forces to enter. And they do enter. Calling angels for help does the same, i.e. it makes a valid agreement which gives them an access to our vehicle. Calling other forces in does the same, be it a bright light, angel guardian, a spirit of an animal or other forces. Mantras (that call deities) do the same. Expressing a wish such as 'I don't want to be here in this body' is an open invitation to something-somebody that does want to be in a physical vehicle, and be sure that it will enter.
Participating in rituals opens inter dimensional doors for other forces to enter our field. Initiations do the same, such as reiki, reconnective healing and similar. Taking drugs does the same. Too much alcohol does the same. Heart transplant does a similar (since the spirit is attached to a heart, the receiver of the heart has now a new spirit inside the body). That's why people change so much after they've had a heart transplant operation. The body is the same but with a new spirit attached to it.
Sometimes these forces are not external, they might be of our own creation from a thought that evolves into a thought form, later on into a life form and finally into an internal created entity. At this stage it can take over our vehicle when it pleases so.

In case you're interested I suggest you to have a look at the youtube channel of the founder of HK:
http://www.youtube.com/user/HolographicKinetics0

If you need more info feel free to pm me.

[Synchronicity]

Perhaps there was another reason for the strange things that happened in your life...not saying nothing was around you or attached, and if you did yoga or meditated in a place with a lot of negative people and/or energy I can see a problem, but the practices themselves done safely don't bring in evil. I have seen things like this and dire warnings posted on religious sites, but their goal is to get people to turn to them and to fear what can really help us think for ourselves and connect to our inner voice and some amazing things that can be healing on many levels.

If you had read the articles carefully you would know that a portion of the jinn are considered helpful and even holy. This issue is whether you want to deal with something you do not understand and that is pretty tricky. I have never done anything that I was aware of with 'negative people', and I remember many lifetimes as a yogi, and as a healer in many native cultures across the planet.... but I did not realize that I am working with Jinn.

I have many healing clients, from my 20 years of work as a healer, that would tell you they received tremendous help from me and they are still grateful. However, I am aware that I have something in my body which is not human and which would rather kill me than allow me to be free of it. This is not sovereignty. This is an invasion. I'm sure that sometime in the distant past I made an agreement or decision to work with these beings, but this memory has been cut off from me, which does not allow me to end things without some help at this point.

As far as whether I had negative people around me or some type of bad energy when I meditated I would say definitely not. In fact, I spent most of my time meditating in the deep and beautiful pristine oak woodlands of California's coastal hills.

Syncronicity (and any one else reading this post).... Please read both articles completely, look into the supporting material cited in them, and watch the video before commenting.

Believe me, I have totally believed in what you are saying... but 30 years of meditation and the advanced energies and sities that come with them have been very challenging. My kundalini awoke a long time ago. I am clairvoyant, clairaudiant, telepathic, and so on. I have done various work with prana and chi for a long time. I have changed my mind that the things I have experienced and am still enduring are good. This article is a fresh breath of clean air for me.

I was simply saying that there are many other ways for negative aspects of beings or for beings to enter a person. I don't disregard and I do respect your background and experience. I think what you posted is helpful and I appreciate you posting it, just to be clear, which I wasn't. Awareness can be safety most of the time. I am aware, too, that there are compassionate and not -so-compassionate aspects of what see as gods or beings they work with. Perhaps a mention of my perspective will clarify my comments. I don't work with gods as guides or work with any, and I specifically only request and welcome "compassionate healing guides and beings, past Masters, and any compassionate and healing guides, beings, and energies" to come through me as I work. The place I work with energy is the same...I don't ask or welcome anything else, and although I know many healers who ask for gods, guides, God, and many others to work with them and respect that there are many ways to work that do help. I guess I personally have seen too much in my own experience to ask for anything else or allow any other energies to work through me. We all have different paths, and I'm not saying you are wrong or that your research is not valid for you or won't be helpful to anyone.

I think when we do energy work sometimes it is very helpful to have work ourselves, and if you feel something needed some attention inside yourself I would say that is an awareness many healers don't have and applaud you. I guess I also, for clarity, wrote from an aspect of seeing so many people who have experienced various religious-based rituals to rid themselves of something who end up with what they had before plus intense fear that still pervades their lives and blocks them from doing what really can be very satisfying and helpful. That may not be your experience at all and I am very happy for you if it isn't. :) Obviously you are experienced as well and your experience is what you rely on as I do on mine, and both are valuable. It is wonderful that you have helped so many, and I respect your work and knowledge. It really doesn't matter for your path in the long run if I agree or would work for myself or a client as you choose, but that is my view.

I only commented in the first place because while I respect your background and views, experience, and wish you the best on your path, I would personally think it would be unfortunate for people to read and assume that meditation and yoga are dangerous in general and shouldn't be done, when I see almost daily people who do wonderfully with them and feel physical, emotional, and spiritual healing while using them as part of their lives and do myself. Please know that any comment I ever make is made with a positive intention and not intended to disrespect or minimize another's path. If I don't explain myself well it's not from any ill intention, but just that...perhaps a poor choice of words. Namaste. :)

[Maunagarjana]

Ah yes, this must be why every meditation group I've been a part of is just full of possessed people. I'm joking, none of them are, because it's a ridiculous idea. I swear, so many people are afraid of their own shadows. Remaining like that is a recipe for staying right where you are and making no progress.

[Synchronicity]

Dawn, as I am aware of, there are not so many safe ways to deal with inter dimensional interferences. Some of them claim to expel those forces out of the person, but… where do those forces go after that? Well, they jump into the next available vehicle (body), very often into the present practitioners.

The best technique that I know of for this kind of clearings is called Holographic Kinetics, which is based on the ancient Aboriginal knowledge of the laws of Lore.

We've made many conscious and unconscius agreements and agreements of entrapment through our life (and many lifetimes). Every time we call something external in, we open the doors of our vehicle to that external energy. That is a valid agreement that gives that external energy the right to use our vehicle for their agenda. And every agreement is valid until we brake it.
We might have even decided to incarnate into a vehicle that already has attached external interferences which are coming through the genetic line. We might have entered the games of others and opened ourselves to their attachments (very easy to do when one is a healer and does not know the laws od Lore). Traumatic experiences open our etheric field and make us vulnerable for other forces to enter. And they do enter. Calling angels for help does the same, i.e. it makes a valid agreement which gives them an access to our vehicle. Calling other forces in does the same, be it a bright light, angel guardian, a spirit of an animal or other forces. Mantras (that call deities) do the same. Expressing a wish such as 'I don't want to be here in this body' is an open invitation to something-somebody that does want to be in a physical vehicle, and be sure that it will enter.
Participating in rituals opens inter dimensional doors for other forces to enter our field. Initiations do the same, such as reiki, reconnective healing and similar. Taking drugs does the same. Too much alcohol does the same. Heart transplant does a similar (since the spirit is attached to a heart, the receiver of the heart has now a new spirit inside the body). That's why people change so much after they've had done a heart transplant. The body is the same but with a new spirit attached to it.
Sometimes these forces are not external, they might be of our own creation from a thought that evolves into a thought form, later on into a life form and finally into an internal created entity. At this stage it can take over our vehicle when it pleases so.

In case you're interested I suggest you to have a look at the youtube channel of the founder of HK:
http://www.youtube.com/user/HolographicKinetics0

If you need more info feel free to pm me.

Thank you for that information! I totally agree that when removing something or going through rituals and initiations we can open doors to things we may not want if we aren't mindful and careful who we invite or work with, and that if we don't send the energies somewhere else we may well take them on ourselves. I work with many energy methods and make sure whatever is released or not needed by the person to move forward and heal either gets help when released (as in someone who didn't step over (cross)) and may simply be lost or in need of help to avoid latching on to someone else, sick emotionally, or just need help moving on, or energy they are releasing is returned to the universe for cleansing. It is an essential part of the process and I teach that as essential, since none of us (speaking in my own situation) want to keep anything around that isn't our own and positive.

I am so glad you brought this aspect up since I have known very skilled healers who didn't do this since they weren't taught to, and they ended up with contaminated work space or issues in their own lives. Very important and thanks..I will check out the video. :)

Edited to add: I have realized why I reacted strongly to the topic...not anyone in particular, but the topic. When I do energy work and in my life in general I find that the fear itself is what opens a doorway to allow negative energy, which then can grow roots and prevent me from standing between the person I am working on and whatever comes along if need be. I find students who were taught as children that energy work is evil and the devil will come have to work past that and get those words and images they were programmed with under control and released to effectively work on others and self. It's a process and can take awhile, but if I become hesitant and afraid with images from scary movies or something I read, then I can't focus on what I am going and allow the healing energy to work through me and I open the door for anything negative to feel powerful near me. The person on the table may be totally operating from fear or whatever, but I can't be and keep us both safe. Not directed at anyone..just an observation about my own life. And if the topic hadn't been posted I wouldn't have taken this morning to evaluate my reaction, so I thank the op for that opportunity.

I have had people come to me who have asked for any spirit to come...really bad news...and they didn't realize what they did. Now that's a bad situation :(

[Sunny-side-up]

Synchronicity you posted:


Edited to add: I have realized why I reacted strongly to the topic...not anyone in particular, but the topic. When I do energy work and in my life in general I find that the fear itself is what opens a doorway to allow negative energy, which then can grow roots and prevent me from standing between the person I am working on and whatever comes along if need be. I find students who were taught as children that energy work is evil and the devil will come have to work past that and get those words and images they were programmed with under control and released to effectively work on others and self. It's a process and can take awhile, but if I become hesitant and afraid with images from scary movies or something I read, then I can't focus on what I am going and allow the healing energy to work through me and I open the door for anything negative to feel powerful near me. The person on the table may be totally operating from fear or whatever, but I can't be and keep us both safe. Not directed at anyone..just an observation about my own life. And if the topic hadn't been posted I wouldn't have taken this morning to evaluate my reaction, so I thank the op for that opportunity.

I have had people come to me who have asked for any spirit to come...really bad news...and they didn't realize what they did. Now that's a bad situation

You are right, I think unless we live the day-to-day, every-day life of a Monk where in said state we can fully concentrate on controlling our-inner-demons and mind-slides we can face the risk of causing a negative to come through or manifest!
You might not even realize that you have done it, but there it goes, given form or energy it runs it's course!
We humans do this all the time, but if we are trying to form a stronger effect, we need to be self-guarded, Mind-checked and emotion-checked!
Look at it this way: do you/we/I ever have bad or negative thoughts! do you ever get upset and before you regain control you've cursed someone (well add raised power to it!)?

I like this question 'If tomorrow we all waked up with full manifesting powers, we all suddenly had ESP, Telekinesis and the like! well how many of us would be alive at the end of the day?' we would first need safe control of mind and emotions.

We are evolving along these heightened abilities route, we are awaking to our true selves, it been/being a long route because it needs to be a safe route. This is where bumping into entities like the Jinn can be so harmful, you might have very good intentions but! if something says 'I can give you a little help, if you do a little something for me'! well that leads to the PTB satanic worshiping levels if you don't just do a little cleansing prayer and check intent before delving!

Another way to say it: Many a BAD person started off as a good person and there are many a GOOD person who started off bad! how can that be? because: One thing can/dose lead to another. I think even a good-jinn will get the taste of what you bargained him/her/it with and will end up wanting more and more!
so cleans first!

Just my long time back negative experience views, I used to think I was so strong and good, so UN-taint-able! well I am good of heart and intent but that dose keep you and your output totally safe!

Well somewhere within my reply above is what I was trying to say 0.o just pick out any of the good bits lol!

[Realeyes]

I am very busy today, but wanted to make a post – thank you for your O.P., I have clicked onto the links and read the text.

I understand where your concerns are Dawn.... I too am looking into filling in gaps about the Djjin and all the other Astral wildlife that seems to dwell in such dimensions close to ours. I wouldn't say it is the most riveting ride I have perused, yet is a big eye opener. :rolleyes:

Since the age of 2 I have had different types of unwanted visitors/interference at times entering my bedroom – I was too young to even know about mediation or kundalini back then, let alone 'who' such beings were.

In my adult years I do practice kundalini rising – I have personally found it very spiritually progressive and self empowering reconnecting to my greater self and Source bringing a harmonious balance within myself - no longer the fiery reactive person of my past. Have my unwanted visitors etc increased because of such conscious expanding practices? Or is it more on the lines that I have increased my conscious awareness and able to ‘see’ that realm more clearly due such practices that activated greater 'conscious sight’? i.e. cleaning the smears on the window so I can see out.

The other day I watched a very interesting presentation by a Catholic priest Exorcist (one has to bear in mind he is talking from a Catholic religious perspective) yet I found it most interesting. He mentions a whole list of practices such a Reiki, crystals etc that according to the Catholic religion opens interdimensional doors to ‘Satan’. From what I was gathering in my own interpretation, ‘Satan’ and all his hierarchical motley crew sound very much like what Islam call Dijjn. Yet this priest also said his mother practices yoga and this is okay. Other meditations are okay too if one is focusing on 'one God', according to this priest.


PV4FpKX5HNU

So the question I have asked myself, if I close my conscious awareness down, really dumb myself down and just focus on the physical 3D, ignoring anything outside of gross matter and becoming a simple farmer like in so many of my lifetimes prior – would all such unwanted wildlife such as dijnn be absent in my life? Perhaps they exist in their own right regardless whether I notice them or not? You see, I have met people who have been possessed many of which had no interest in the spiritual path, never done anything new agey that would have invited such in – so I personally sense there is much more to this story that we have yet to understand.

Also as the Catholic priest mentions when referring to 'saints' (paraphrasing) due to their consciousness of spiritual light they do attract such unwanteds. So perhaps Dawn your soul shines brightly and is being noticed by ‘others’ as your awareness reaches into higher levels of conscious awakening - rather than you personally doing some type of wrong practice that somehow welcomed such interference in. I think it is always good to discern any practice, there are practices out there intended to do harm. Simply do what works for oneself and chuck out what does not.

And yes I have seen healers that have good intentions, yet unknowingly ‘adding’ into their patients body unwanteds. I keep well away from such, and do my upmost to D.I.Y. within myself connecting with my god/source for such healings, cutting out any middleman.

Dawn, I only came across your Breatharian thread the other day and only had time to see a few of the links. What I saw so far is so spiritually inspiring. You have an amazing story of experience when you were a breatharian (living on prana/light) and how wild animals would peacefully engage with you - that to me is a sign you were in harmony and 'at one' with life. I am not sure if those animals would have been so at ease with you, let alone come up to you had you been filled with Djjn etc. Just a thought on the prana debate to consider.

Here is another most interesting presentation on transdimensional relationship between dijjn and ET presence. From what I am starting to understand is that other beings exist in 3.5D and 4D just like we exist in 3D. IF what everyone is saying that we as a planet are raising our frequency and conscious awareness, we are slowly moving closer into these other realms of existence, hence why more people are having such experiences as the veils between us are thinning. Also modern day technology is also opening portals such as WiFi.

The key I have found for myself is to not to be afraid or surrender my power over to anyone other than my god/source. When I am 'neutral' connecting to my heart space filled with love and joy in my beingness and knowingness remembering I am an Eternal Being part of God/Source, I have managed to keep safe. Yes some of the challenges that have arisen are most alarming, yet I am still here today with a smile on my face and know more of the strengths I have within me from such experiences. ;)


JtJj0_XIRyU


I agree Dawn, that it is always productive to redefine what we know, allowing new updates and greater conscious understandings and awareness in our daily walk. I know for myself when I am having a spring clean I have to be mindful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater if I find myself in a flux. I have done that several times in my life, and only upon hindsight realise there was nothing wrong with 'whatever', I was simply in a confusion where I allowed my superstition of uncertainty get in the way. Smile.

Much love to you Dawn
Realeyes X :hug:

Ps. One of my common phrases in these Times is: 'that's interesting'....

[Sunny-side-up]

I am very busy today, but wanted to make a post – thank you for your O.P., I have clicked onto the links and read the text.

I understand where your concerns are Dawn.... I too am looking into filling in gaps about the Djjin and all the other Astral wildlife that seems to dwell in such dimensions close to ours. I wouldn't say it is the most riveting ride I have perused, yet is a big eye opener. :rolleyes:

Since the age of 2 I have had different types of unwanted visitors/interference at times entering my bedroom – I was too young to even know about mediation or kundalini back then, let alone 'who' such beings were.

In my adult years I do practice kundalini rising – I have personally found it very spiritually progressive and self empowering reconnecting to my greater self and Source bringing a harmonious balance within myself - no longer the fiery reactive person of my past. Have my unwanted visitors etc increased because of such conscious expanding practices? Or is it more on the lines that I have increased my conscious awareness and able to ‘see’ that realm more clearly due such practices that activated greater 'conscious sight’? i.e. cleaning the smears on the window so I can see out.

The other day I watched a very interesting presentation by a Catholic priest Exorcist (one has to bear in mind he is talking from a Catholic religious perspective) yet I found it most interesting. He mentions a whole list of practices such a Reiki, crystals etc that according to the Catholic religion opens interdimensional doors to ‘Satan’. From what I was gathering in my own interpretation, ‘Satan’ and all his hierarchical motley crew sound very much like what Islam call Dijjn. Yet this priest also said his mother practices yoga and this is okay. Other meditations are okay too if one is focusing on 'one God', according to this priest.


PV4FpKX5HNU

So the question I have asked myself, if I close my conscious awareness down, really dumb myself down and just focus on the physical 3D, ignoring anything outside of gross matter and becoming a simple farmer like in so many of my lifetimes prior – would all such unwanted wildlife such as dijnn be absent in my life? Perhaps they exist in their own right regardless whether I notice them or not? You see, I have met people who have been possessed many of which had no interest in the spiritual path, never done anything new agey that would have invited such in – so I personally sense there is much more to this story that we have yet to understand.

Also as the Catholic priest mentions when referring to 'saints' (paraphrasing) due to their consciousness of spiritual light they do attract such unwanteds. So perhaps Dawn your soul shines brightly and is being noticed by ‘others’ as your awareness reaches into higher levels of conscious awakening - rather than you personally doing some type of wrong practice that somehow welcomed such interference in. I think it is always good to discern any practice, there are practices out there intended to do harm. Simply do what works for oneself and chuck out what does not.

And yes I have seen healers that have good intentions, yet unknowingly ‘adding’ into their patients body unwanteds. I keep well away from such, and do my upmost to D.I.Y. within myself connecting with my god/source for such healings, cutting out any middleman.

Dawn, I only came across your Breatharian thread the other day and only had time to see a few of the links. What I saw so far is so spiritually inspiring. You have an amazing story of experience when you were a breatharian (living on prana/light) and how wild animals would peacefully engage with you - that to me is a sign you were in harmony and 'at one' with life. I am not sure if those animals would have been so at ease with you, let alone come up to you had you been filled with Djjn etc. Just a thought on the prana debate to consider.

Here is another most interesting presentation on transdimensional relationship between dijjn and ET presence. From what I am starting to understand is that other beings exist in 3.5D and 4D just like we exist in 3D. IF what everyone is saying that we as a planet are raising our frequency and conscious awareness, we are slowly moving closer into these other realms of existence, hence why more people are having such experiences as the veils between us are thinning. Also modern day technology is also opening portals such as WiFi.

The key I have found for myself is to not to be afraid or surrender my power over to anyone other than my god/source. When I am 'neutral' connecting to my heart space filled with love and joy in my beingness and knowingness remembering I am an Eternal Being part of God/Source, I have managed to keep safe. Yes some of the challenges that have arisen are most alarming, yet I am still here today with a smile on my face and know more of the strengths I have within me from such experiences. ;)


JtJj0_XIRyU


I agree Dawn, that it is always productive to redefine what we know, allowing new updates and greater conscious understandings and awareness in our daily walk. I know for myself when I am having a spring clean I have to be mindful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater if I find myself in a flux. I have done that several times in my life, and only upon hindsight realise there was nothing wrong with 'whatever', I was simply in a confusion where I allowed my superstition of uncertainty get in the way. Smile.

Much love to you Dawn
Realeyes X :hug:

Ps. One of my common phrases in these Times is: 'that's interesting'....

I just wan't to bump your words Realeyes
:wizard:

Love,Peace and Hugs all!
Alan

[Nomatic]

If you have a good lineage and the meridians are sealed after each level of training there should be not much problem with interference.

[Hervé]

Thread on Holographic Kinetics and Steve Richards:

Dreamtime Healing - Using Holographic Kinetics (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?38458-Dreamtime-Healing-Using-Holographic-Kinetics&highlight=holographic+kinetics)

[halffull]

I agree 100% with Voyager

Holographic Kinetics is truly amazing and really works.

The work itself is very dangerous and can only be preformed by someone that has been trained by Steve Richards.

Look on line for a practitioner. Steve has trained people in 20 different countries so far.

You would be surprised at how many people and animals are affected by interdimensional interference.

I have a cat who, out of the blue started to attack her own kittens. It turned out that the cat was attacked by another cat and interdimensional entities had attached themselves to her. Holographic Kinetics cleared her of the entities and she instantly became the loving mother she had always been.

About 6 months later the same cat started to hiss and scratch her children, she had been attacked by another cat while she was out late at night.
Holographic Kinetics cleared her again and the result was instant, back to her loving self.

If anyone on Avalon has any problems with their animals and would like some help PM me and we can help in ways you would not think possible.

There is one thing I would like to say, and that is the power of the spoken word. Every living being is surrounded by a Torus field. When this field is weak or open

interdimensional entities enter this field. It could be through drink, drugs, being attacked, having a shock, undergoing surgery etc

Just talk to your spirit out loud and say 'spirit strengthen torus field, don't let anything in, thank you' (always thank spirit after a request)

It is wise to say this every night before you go to sleep. If you tell your spirit every day to strengthen your torus field, it becomes stronger over time.

[RunningDeer]

Grrr, twice my internet went off-line while I perused the links provided. Honestly, I would not have spent a lot of time on the site. Part of me felt it was a perfect solution to keep people from developing their natural abilities.

I’ve done Tai Chi and Chi Kung for 25 years, and simple yoga poses for the last 5 years. Besides the usual benefits of health, relaxation, flexibility, it helps with focus and heightened awareness. It wasn’t long before I left formal martial arts training because it was about fighting and competition. The focal point was on lower dantian, i.e. the navel chakra, but for me it was natural to stay in the heart.

During Tai Chi practice, I’ve had flashes of events that pertain to myself and love ones. Not once have I felt negative influences. IMO, all can develop higher senses through quiet reflection, walks or anything that promotes centeredness. It doesn't need to be through formal avenues.

Of late, I’ve questioned why I’ve not been visited by challenging energies/entities like I read at Avalon and other venues. Either I’m not of high enough light or I alas, don’t have the sought after genetics or it’s not my path or in the case of a rare something uninvited, I am firm in saying take a hike.

I come back to that I was raised by someone whom had archonic energies. The saving grace was I didn’t allow my spirit to be broken. That and a lot of walks on country roads and woods. There was a part of me that knew I was not alone. There were whispers from the woods beyond my comprehension, but always a calm washed over me. I hesitate to add this last point because some may say I’m implanted, controlled, and unaware. To that I say, it’s not my story.

My path is that I stay open to the knowledge. Spot check when fear says, “Knock-knock, can I come in?” And live with awareness and heart space.

RunningDeer <3

UPDATE:



If you had read the articles carefully you would know that a portion of the jinn are considered helpful and even holy.

This article is a fresh breath of clean air for me.

Sorry, Dawn. I read the thread out of order. Thanks for these and other points.

[Jake]

Thank you, Dawn. I hadn't seen this article. :) I am a practitioner of both energy work and traditional Chinese GungFu (WuShu). I never advanced past a white sash during my gungfu lessons, although I have studied ever since.

I come from a similar camp that Realeyes is coming from. I had several interferences with non-physical entities from a very young age. Mostly negative/fearful... My life has been an ongoing search for truth with regards non-physical experiences and non-physical beings...

My energetic episodes did NOT level/balance out until I began a committed schedule of energy work.!! :) Also,, my OBE activity became much more clear and consistent,, once I began regular energy work. Please understand,, I never asked for any of this,,, :) I was struck at a very early age with waking into sleep paralysis... Regardless of what any teaching or philosophy exists regarding energy/chi/kundalini and regardless of what folks know about Djinn/Archons/Demons,,, I was to have to deal with it on my own!!

So what came first? The chicken or the egg?

Do powerful energetic episodes attract the attention of higher energetic beings? or, Do powerful energetic beings induce states of intense energetic episodes.?? I say the answer is BOTH... We ARE higher energetic beings,, experiencing powerful energetic episodes... There are some on this planet that can only dabble,, yet can create powerful energetic states that can/will conjure higher energetic beings. This type of knowledge has been around for longo time!! (Please note that when I say 'higher' energetic being,, I do not necessarily mean benevolent.)

In my opinion,, this discussion crosses two of the three ingredients needed for sojourn into to the Astral, from a waking/physical state... Those two being 'energy' and 'sleep paralysis'... ;) The third ingredient is 'trance'... Being able to naturally, or by practice,, lower yourself into deeper and deeper states of trance, while your waking mind remains awake and aware... It is a delicate balance. All of the mysteries are exposed before you,, once in this state. I practice energy work the same as someone goes to the gym.. I look at it as a sort of exercise for my energy body... We have an energybody counterpart that has systems of interaction that directly effect the state of our physical bodies as well as our mental and spiritual health. This energy body stays with the physical body at all times... (not to be confused with the astral body or etheric bodies) The energbody has systems of energy that ebb and flow and work together... Just like the physical body has a 'respetory/nervous/digestive/etc'... systems!! That is why you will find a potent mix of energetic work and physical work when researching GungFu,, or other systems of physical movement, designed to align your body with the movement of energy...

Whenever we raise this kind of energy,,, it will attract the attention of 'others'...

One cannot learn a single discipline and become a master at understanding the Djinn... I have come across some pretty nasty 'buggers' out there,,, (in the astral)... It becomes a question of personal sovereignty and being able to create your own 'space' and being able to 'stand in it'... We are powerful beings on the verge of waking up....

I have not studied Muslim theology and the Djinn,,, But I have been given a crash course in malevolent/ non-physical beings... The term 'trickster' comes to mind.

Excellent topic, I am thrilled..
Jake.

[Finefeather]

I would like to give you some of my first hand experience on the djinn...if you will allow me the opportunity. Do not get the impression that I know a lot because actual I know very little but I have some experience here which might be of use.

First I would just like to write a bit on sleep paralysis.

Sleep paralysis has nothing to do with ANY...and I mean ANY type of energy work. It also has nothing to do with any mechanism the body has to protect us from any dream phenomena or to keep us safe during sleep.

I have experienced this on numerous occasions during my 40+ years of out of body work...I do rescue work in lower and intermediate 'astral' states and there is a very simple answer to it.

I am not going to get into complicated terminology and explanations with regards to the constitution of the Self...and so will, for this post, just use terms which most are probably familiar with.

When we go OB at night...and everyone does...either consciously or unconsciously...we are disconnected from the body's nerve system...which is intertwined with the etheric body or etheric matrix...and this means we no longer are able to operate the body physically. So we feel nothing and the body is still and quiet except for maybe some involuntary muscle twitches. Whilst we are fully disconnected no sensations are felt and sleep continues normally. There is still a connection to the body which is the life thread, in the heart via the Vagus nerve...from the top chakra...the consciousness has left the body in it's 'astral' body.

When we return or wake up the consciousness re-enters and we are once again able to feel and move our body.

In some cases and sometimes...not often, when we return, the consciousness...which is now in the 'astral body'...misaligns with the physical body on return and the brain wakes up but the connection to the somatic nervous system has not fully connected or aligned and we then are brain awake but are unable to move or use the nerve system...we are physically conscious but our motor nerve system is not yet aligned with the 'astral' body...we are paralysed...yet we appear fully awake and this is sleep paralyses.

This same phenomena is used by yogis and many people unconsciously to control pain and to do magic tricks. We also see many reports of people who experience this on operating tables.

The best way to deal with this is to try to relax and it usually corrects itself as soon as the astral body is fully aligned in the body.

There is more to this connection process but I think you might get my meaning...but basically it happens because of misalignment.

Now before I go to the scary bit I need to say that under normal circumstances the etheric body has a natural safeguard against attack or possession, but if this is compromised in some way...usually by dabbling or getting involved with negative practices, or feeble minded people...then it is possible for other entities to possess the body fully...or share the body with the rightful owner...but these possessors are NEVER djinn.
Djinn can obsess a mind but not possess a body.

I watched this video above and IMO it is fake...and is probably out there to keep our Muslim brothers idling along in ignorance and in fear. Djinn are famous in the Islam and Arab folklore and mythology. So I would like to repeat...djinn cannot possess a human body...they are from the deva evolutionary chain and therefore cannot incarnate as we do.

If this was a true case of possession then it can only be another disembodied human 'spirit' who has jumped in because it is either frightened as hell where it is or it is just plain lost and desperate...or a really obnoxious obsessed one with evil intentions...this I have seen many times.

Lastly I would just like to draw you attention to the difference between possession and obsession. Possession is a literal take over of a another persons body and obsession is where we are fed with some negative influence by astral entities who cannot themselves possess our bodies.
Do not confuse obsession with Skandhas, which are deep inner personal traumas or habits which we have carried around with us for sometimes many many life times...these are what Scientology is very good at assisting with.

Ok...now here comes the scary part :)

During this sleep paralysed state all sorts of thoughts start entering our minds depending on our general state, but the common one for the unsuspecting traveller is fear...but this is not always evident.
Now the jinn...actually djinn...are a band of nature or earth spirits who have rather a 'no moral/no worry' type of outlook and intelligence. They sometimes remind me of the spiteful people we find in life...those who always play games on us at our expense. They are open to most things like lies, scaring the wits out of us, jealousy, anger and anything which is about emotional excitement. They literally feed off repulsive emotion. Fear is also a good one for them but as I said not the only one.

These little creatures can also however actually be quite fun but they do not trust humans very much, and so their first plan is to con us or trick us in all sorts of ways. They are actually quite harmless but to the casual traveller they can be pretty hair raising at times.

The 2 famous ones in this band are the Incubus and Succubus these are names for the male and female djinn...they can present themselves in either one...who love to climb onto us when we are OB and it can be quite a struggle to get them off because they are often on our back...and there is also the one that sits on the chest.

These little wretches are the ones who often pretend to have sex with us in the astral state and many stories are around about this. They are able to show themselves in short bursts in the physical but cannot sustain this for long periods.

Once you get to know them and understand them they can be a laugh a minute. You can befriend them and they can be 'bribed'...quite cutely...into doing almost anything for you once you have captured their trust. Some of them become extremely attached to some human who does not fear them and who acts with respect towards them. They can be influenced and controlled by good or bad...they are not naturally good or naturally bad.

The movie “The Gremlins” is an amazing take on them...I am sure the writer new about nature spirits.

A little about djinn and marshal arts.

I apologise immediately to the persons who have real understanding of the nature and purpose of the real ancient arts of self defence...but IMO most people who take up marshal arts...especially in the west...have this little inner secret wish to be like Bruce Lee or whoever their idle is. Most have literally no idea of any astral world or phenomena...I know that some have. I know this because I have been there. So it would not surprise me in the least if some of these people are been targeted by the djinn because of the opinion they might hold of themselves with their new found skills. Emotional illusions are a good grounding for djinn obsession.
They will spur you on and cheer you all the way :)

Better stop now...I could go on a bit here :)

Take care and don't forget to check under your bed tonight :)

Ray

If anyone is interested in learning more about the lives in the 'astral plane' I would recommend this little book:

http://galactic.no/rune/spesBoker/13832420-Arthur-E-Powell-The-Astral-Body-1927.pdf

[Dawn]

I love the posts here. Thank you everyone for not aiming any energetic 'bullets' at me' for I know I am poking at a sacred cow (meditation and Eastern arts). There is not one experience written about on this thread that I have not had. Though yours might have had a slightly different flavor than what was dished up to me.

Here's an interesting quote and I'd like to ask for more:

If you have a good lineage and the meridians are sealed after each level of training there should be not much problem with interference.

My 'lineage' was from Ramana Maharshi. And you know what? I had a very frightening experience while in that sangha, although I could not believe what I was seeing, and did not realize the truth for years. Even though this lineage is considered a good one, what I saw only adds fuel to the fire of thought on this thread. I will tell the story, and I will not use names, though you may be able to guess them. I found a teacher 7 years after my 'white light experience', so I already was having a very strange life.... but this story isn't about me... it is about what I observed in the leader of the Sangha, who I will refer to as Samuel (though that is not his name).


When I first met Samuel he was so filled with love. When walking into the room, where Samuel was going to meditate and then lead a little discussion group for the 7 people attending, I could feel an intense field of love which vibrated in every molecule. It was his gentle manner, humble demeanor, and the tremendous love vibration, which caused me to decide it would be safe to join his group. He listened to my story of the 'white light' experience and told me that he would help develop a 'cast iron' nervous system that would remain balanced no-matter-what. This was very important for me since I was experiencing massive energy surges which dropped me to the ground and left me catatonic every year or 2.

2 years after meeting Samuel, his group had grown from 7 to 50 and he decided to change his name. His new name was a Sanskrit term, meaning 'The Great Emptiness', A month or 2 later he came down with an extremely high fever. At one point in his illness, with a fever of 112, he woke up and asked his wive where he was if he was dying.

When 'The Great Emptiness' came back to the Satsang a few weeks later he had changed completely. I sat close to him that day and looked into his eyes to ask a question... there I no longer saw Samuel... instead his eyes were empty (void, dead, black, featureless). I was very surprised and asked about it. His response was that now he had finally become 'The Great Emptiness', which is what we all really were. I was not the only one in the satsang who noticed this change. Many there mourned the loss of Samuel, even his close family members. We were all told that he had experienced the 'great death' and we drew the conclusion that this was a good thing and that he was in an enlightened state. I will say that the frequency of love never again was evident during satsang, instead there was a field of a sort of 'vast emptiness'.

After a few more years of membership in the sangha I had developed a weird nagging sense of shame. I had not experienced this prior to joining the sangha, and as I spoke to other members I realized we all had this. It was as though we were striving for something and felt guilty that we did not have it... yet we also did not know how to find it... and all the discussions in satsang focused on this topic. I was a pretty involved member and contributed my money and time to help the sangha remain organized for it had now grown to thousands of members. Then I began being told in various ways that I should leave. In fact all of the original 50 members were forced out in nasty and similar ways. Here is one example.... I would go to the office to do my volunteer work and would get flu like symptoms within 5 minutes of arrival... if I tried to stay longer I would begin to get dry heaves. Here is another example: I would attend a satsang meeting and a feeling of ants or bugs crawling all over my skin would begin so that I could not sit still. As I mentioned, other former members had similar experiences. Well, there is a lot more to this story however you get the idea.

It is my belief that Samuel lost the battle for possession of his body during the severe illness he endured. Something took over possession of his body and is still in it... and the numbers of people who belong to his sangha have grown in excess of 5,000

I need to add one more piece to this post. After leaving the sangha I was invited back to sing at a Christmas celebration about 2 years later. As I stood in front of the members I felt a large amount of energy coming from them... it was almost like being in the noon day sun. At first I felt that I could not handle this much energy, however the big realization I had was that 'The Great Emptiness' receives this amount of energy from his students in every meeting. It seems he is being fed a great amount of energy by his sangha members. This is very sobering indeed and lends a lot of weight to the idea that we humans are used as batteries to charge others up.

[chocolate]

"Mind is the Master power that moulds and makes,
And Man is Mind, and evermore he takes
The tool of Thought, and, shaping what he wills,
Brings forth a thousand joys, a thousand ills: —
He thinks in secret, and it comes to pass:
Environment is but his looking-glass."

From As A Man Thinketh
by James Allen
http://jamesallen.wwwhubs.com/think.htm

"The soul attracts that which it secretly harbors, that which it loves, and also that which it fears. It reaches the height of its cherished aspirations. It falls to the level of its unchastened desires - and circumstances are the means by which the soul receives its own."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_a_Man_Thinketh

Peace!

[seeker/reader]

I wonder what Simon would have to say in regards to this as he has experience with the Djinn and apparently knows how to get rid of them.

[superconsciousness]

Spirit/Superconscious, please locate the origin of my feelings,
thoughts of __________________________________________________.
(fill in the blank with your belief, feeling, thoughts)

Take each and every level, layer, area, and aspect of my being to this origin.

Analyze it and resolve it perfectly with God's truth.

Come through all generations of time and eternity.

Healing every incident and its appendages based on the origin.

Please do it according to God's will until I am at the present,
Filled with light and truth.

God's peace and love, forgiveness of myself for my incorrect perceptions.

Forgiveness of every person, place, circumstances, and events
which contributed to this, these feelings and thoughts.

[Dawn]

chocolate: "Mind is the Master power that moulds and makes,
And Man is Mind, and evermore he takes
The tool of Thought, and, shaping what he wills,
Brings forth a thousand joys, a thousand ills: —
He thinks in secret, and it comes to pass:
Environment is but his looking-glass."

From As A Man Thinketh
by James Allen
http://jamesallen.wwwhubs.com/think.htm

"The soul attracts that which it secretly harbors, that which it loves, and also that which it fears. It reaches the height of its cherished aspirations. It falls to the level of its unchastened desires - and circumstances are the means by which the soul receives its own."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_a_Man_Thinketh

Peace!

I wish my experience matched this Chocolate. I spent many years of my life working with my belief systems and quieting my mind. It was striving to 'control my mind' which left me feeling a sense of shame and inadequacy. It seems to me that making such a post is arrogance itself for you are not offering any help, but only stating that your belief is that I am not controlling my thoughts and am responsible for all I have endured.

So, if this is really true how do you explain all the thousands of people who are starving on this planet?
How do you explain all of those who are victim of various Black Ops torture?
How do you explain those suffering mental illness?
How do you explain all of the children who are beaten by parents, taken and tortured, or killed?
Hmmmm?

Do you believe that all of these thousands of people secretly thought this might be a good idea? Do you think that a native person living deep in the wilderness somewhere actually feared being overtaken, tortured and killed?

Frankly, I do not see that your statement offers any hope for change and it also does not seem to fit the facts we see on this planet..... however it does lead us to a sense that 'it is all our fault' and that we 'made a wrong thought which we must correct'. That is... it leads us into a sense of shame... and this sense reduces our sense of power and increases our sense of powerlessness.

I can definitely believe that I and everyone else on the planet made agreements in other lifetimes which we would now like to cancel. Since we are erased between lifetimes, we cannot remember these agreements in order to cancel them. But your post does not offer help.... instead you are pouring salt on an open wound that many of us are trying to heal.

[chocolate]

I would also like to cross-post here:

Your thoughts are not your thoughts. They actually come from outside of you, much like the thoughts of others, ultimately. But let's start at the beginning, with more about how the ability to not-think is very relevant to astral travel, and various other important things.

Once you begin to learn, after regular practice, how to not-think, then at times during the day you'll be reminded to "change gears" into pausing for a moment and doing that. Then, after a while, you'll notice a split, where you constantly feel the not-thinking part of you. That is actually the HM, and a true center. You'll also feel the other parts of you, which are busy with practicalities of living and so on.

At some point -- after some years, for some people -- you'll notice something very curious. Now that I'm pointing this out, it hopefully won't take you years. You'll notice -- eventually quite precisely -- that all thoughts come from and occur outside of you. Not only that, but they're quite mechanical. They -- thoughts, thinking itself -- contain no knowledge in themselves. All knowledge comes from within you, from a space wholly beyond and above thoughts. It descends down into the mental, where it finds expression in words -- or pictures, or symbols. Thoughts are just dumb receptacles, like chess pieces. That's why through not-thinking, through silence, you can know everything you ever did using thinking, but you know it more fully and more directly.

Not only that. You'll discover that you can access not only "your" knowledge but any knowledge you like. I guess that's beginner RVing. The knowledge could be about someone or something on the other side of the world. The HM is connected with everything. In my experience, the whole thrill, the whole essence, of astral traveling -- and even more so of mental traveling -- is in being able to know and/or experience anything, anywhere. Even though it takes at least years of practice to learn to do that with great accuracy. But it's easy very, very early on to experience the overall "feel" of whatever you'd like to visit. In other words, the thrill and fascination and pleasure of the experience lies almost entirely in the experiencing of "exotic" or useful knowledge. And that's done by and through the HM. Not by hypnosis or affirmations. Nor do you need to move your awareness out of your physical body as in astral travel, either.

Strangely, all you need to learn to do this is how to "feel" in you the all-pervading Silence at all times, the Silence that watches all. You need to gradually learn to let its knowledge, its ideas take priority in your life -- even though they seem to come out of "nothing", out of some kind of whim. You have to gradually unhook from all your old, mechanical inner habits more and more. Only then will will you be able to "point" that silent Mind to anywhere or anything or anyone in the multiverse, and receive all the knowledge you need regarding that.

And as I say, eventually you can learn that you only "borrow" all your thoughts. You may even learn to see them entering into your energy field before you "think" them. They look like little rotating balls of electricity, and you can learn to actually see them all coming in from outside of your energy field. You don't create your thoughts. The Divine Mind created and creates them all, every last one.

since the whole thread is extremely informative, practically-oriented and may be helpful more than the statement that
any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52121-OBEs-What-are-they-how-to-make-them-happen-and-where-does-the-Higher-Self-fit-in&p=808456&viewfull=1#post808456

I know I am speaking right now a bit against the 'accepted' way this thread is going by many powerful people, but I would also like to point that there are those who read the thread from the outside, and that can be more vulnerable to that kind of information than anyone of us, here, might be.
I have (personally) come to realize that I (personally) fear what I don't know.
And I have taken care of that for myself.

So, in summary we need to go for the eye drops? And possibly some specific 'mantras' from the Muslim religion?

Or can we stop breathing, may be, that would be easier, I think.

What if someone comes and says, you know, your 'chi', or 'prana', or 'orgone' energy is quite simply energetically charged particles, that are just that, but are important for you staying alive?
Where will we start looking for the jinn then?

Sometimes (I am seriously reconsidering).

[chocolate]

chocolate: "Mind is the Master power that moulds and makes,
And Man is Mind, and evermore he takes
The tool of Thought, and, shaping what he wills,
Brings forth a thousand joys, a thousand ills: —
He thinks in secret, and it comes to pass:
Environment is but his looking-glass."

From As A Man Thinketh
by James Allen
http://jamesallen.wwwhubs.com/think.htm

"The soul attracts that which it secretly harbors, that which it loves, and also that which it fears. It reaches the height of its cherished aspirations. It falls to the level of its unchastened desires - and circumstances are the means by which the soul receives its own."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_a_Man_Thinketh

Peace!

I wish my experience matched this Chocolate. I spent many years of my life working with my belief systems and quieting my mind. It was striving to 'control my mind' which left me feeling a sense of shame and inadequacy. It seems to me that making such a post is arrogance itself for you are not offering any help, but only stating that your belief is that I am not controlling my thoughts and am responsible for all I have endured.

So, if this is really true how do you explain all the thousands of people who are starving on this planet?
How do you explain all of those who are victim of various Black Ops torture?
How do you explain those suffering mental illness?
How do you explain all of the children who are beaten by parents, taken and tortured, or killed?
Hmmmm?

Do you believe that all of these thousands of people secretly thought this might be a good idea? Do you think that a native person living deep in the wilderness somewhere actually feared being overtaken, tortured and killed?

Frankly, I do not see that your statement offers any hope for change and it also does not seem to fit the facts we see on this planet..... however it does lead us to a sense that 'it is all our fault' and that we 'made a wrong thought which we must correct'. That is... it leads us into a sense of shame... and this sense reduces our sense of power and increases our sense of powerlessness.

I can definitely believe that I and everyone else on the planet made agreements in other lifetimes which we would now like to cancel. Since we are erased between lifetimes, we cannot remember these agreements in order to cancel them. But your post does not offer help.... instead you are pouring salt on an open wound that many of us are trying to heal.


I have to point out that the above is fully a quote from James Allen, has nothing to do with chocolate except the peace part.

Edited to add:
The statement that our mind is the source is quite empowering, and frankly if someone cannot see the opportunity of having his understanding about himself more down to earth, fully operational and practical, than I guess there will be no change as we want it to be.

I am trying to distance myself from being personally challenged by any member, and since I take very little of what I read personally I manage to find the balance. It has never been as simple as that until I realized that I have the control.
After that, everything changed for the better.

I wish all wounds, internal and external, will heal if we could only let them!

Here I will not start talking about my experiences, because I see no point in doing so. It would only deepen the tension. But don't assume that because I am younger, or seemingly less experienced, I am a stranger to violence. That part of me will go down with the rest of me, but I will not emphasize it by writing on the forum any longer than necessary.

Here and now I would say, back to topic, but I know that what I have said is exactly on topic.
The truth may not always be easy or pleasant, but that doesn't mean it is impossible to find it.
You just have to look fearlessly, and long enough, inside.

[Delight]

When I was very young and visted my grandparents, I often read the books on their shelves. There were many old ones about religion, spiritual ideas and theosophy because my grandmother's family were early "new age" subscribers. My grandmother always warned me to stay away from Ouija Boards and seances, dabbling in spells and any activity like that.

I never was even interested in these pursuits. They seem childish and futile. Also joining was for crowds and information there seemingly second hand. I have checked out lineages and they all require subscription. AND one does not know all the details of agreements as they are embedded in the "lineage" subconscious.

This is my opinion here: I deeply believe I know that we are in no danger from external energy. With my deepest heart, I feel we want to understand the power of our own ideas. They can create whatever we put our energy on. We create the kind of experiences WE have.

It is our interpretations based on what we decide imaginatively that creates response in our (various) bodies. We like to be SURE and it is holding on to our certainty that is really difficult. Holding on is attachment. It has it's effect. We hold on to everything like pack rats.

EVERYTHING IS ALIVE in its place. It is the relationship that brings us closer and father apart. IMO we are never beset by anything outside no matter what the stories might say.

We have the qualities that are dangerous: like the ability to be hateful towards "strangers". IMO we ignore most everything around and also trample over life forms wily nily as humans who are blinded. Wielding our own imagination is considered measly though this faculty mediates energetic appearances.

That to me is why healing the underlying subconscious agreements would change our experience. That is why IMO we are self limiting, not imprisoned.

I believe I know THIS story:
None of these beings that live in their realms are threats to humans. The whole notion of usery that includes the manipulation from sorcerers abuses and humans adopted usery. Yes, this made us human beings distrust ourselves because if we are setting out to use, we must be used. If we are out to hate, others must hate.

It is maybe our imagination that is at work but the whole seems real. I never "met" any of these beings in form. But I feel I know them well at a level that my mind cannot process. I do see energy and lights. Any information is never direct. But I feel very sad as if the "others" are sad we have been so separated from the whole of creation.

[greybeard]

The difficulty is the mind loves to come up with a reason when something unexpected happens in meditation or spiritual work.
There might be no reason-- no cause and effect.----or there might be.
Again the mind wants to control.
Its not a question of controlling the mind---thoughts arrive unasked for and depart if left alone.
Basically the thoughts are noticed but neither encouraged nor discouraged.
Because they are starved of attention/interaction the thoughts get quieter and quieter till peace reigns--
That is my personal experience.
In the very early days there was a little fear as I did not know what I was getting into and no teacher to advise, which may have been a blessing.
If fear arose I just observed it and it dissipated--- force energises.

A short story.
There was a dragon slayer--- he was the saviour of the village against many a dragon.
Eventually he was dying of old age.
The villagers in fear begged him not to die---how would they survive without him?
He gave a smile and said " I think you will find when I have gone so will the dragons be gone"

Make of that what you will.

There is nothing to fear but fear

Best wishes Chris

[Synchronicity]

If you have a good lineage and the meridians are sealed after each level of training there should be not much problem with interference.

I agree. There is protection when you do it in a safe manner.

[RunningDeer]

chocolate: "Mind is the Master power that moulds and makes,
And Man is Mind, and evermore he takes
The tool of Thought, and, shaping what he wills,
Brings forth a thousand joys, a thousand ills: —
He thinks in secret, and it comes to pass:
Environment is but his looking-glass."

From As A Man Thinketh
by James Allen
http://jamesallen.wwwhubs.com/think.htm

"The soul attracts that which it secretly harbors, that which it loves, and also that which it fears. It reaches the height of its cherished aspirations. It falls to the level of its unchastened desires - and circumstances are the means by which the soul receives its own."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_a_Man_Thinketh

Peace!

I wish my experience matched this Chocolate. I spent many years of my life working with my belief systems and quieting my mind. It was striving to 'control my mind' which left me feeling a sense of shame and inadequacy. It seems to me that making such a post is arrogance itself for you are not offering any help, but only stating that your belief is that I am not controlling my thoughts and am responsible for all I have endured.

So, if this is really true how do you explain all the thousands of people who are starving on this planet?
How do you explain all of those who are victim of various Black Ops torture?
How do you explain those suffering mental illness?
How do you explain all of the children who are beaten by parents, taken and tortured, or killed?
Hmmmm?

Do you believe that all of these thousands of people secretly thought this might be a good idea? Do you think that a native person living deep in the wilderness somewhere actually feared being overtaken, tortured and killed?

Frankly, I do not see that your statement offers any hope for change and it also does not seem to fit the facts we see on this planet..... however it does lead us to a sense that 'it is all our fault' and that we 'made a wrong thought which we must correct'. That is... it leads us into a sense of shame... and this sense reduces our sense of power and increases our sense of powerlessness.

I can definitely believe that I and everyone else on the planet made agreements in other lifetimes which we would now like to cancel. Since we are erased between lifetimes, we cannot remember these agreements in order to cancel them. But your post does not offer help.... instead you are pouring salt on an open wound that many of us are trying to heal.

On one level:

My interpretation of chocolate’s post is that the perceptions and beliefs create where I spend my time. Therefore, it’s important to be vigilant of the mind dialogue.

At another level:

Even though I see from the larger perspective, my heart weeps for the tortured. At times, it’s what moves me in the here and now. The best I can contribute is to continue in discovery. Be a part of that which fosters change/direction.

RunningDeer <3

[Dawn]

On one level:

My interpretation of chocolate’s post is that the perceptions and beliefs create where I spend my time. Therefore, it’s important to be vigilant of the mind dialogue.

At another level:

Even though I see from the larger perspective, my heart weeps for the tortured. At times, it’s what moves me in the here and now. The best I can contribute is to continue in discovery. Be a part of that which fosters change/direction.

RunningDeer <3

Very well said Running Deer. I'd like to post another personal story as food for thought in this discussion:

About 15 years ago I was learning a method of gaining freedom through the release of the emotional programs which plague us all. The original work in discovering this came from Lester Levenson, while the course was developed by his partner, Virginia. As far as I know, there is only one person on the planet who still carries this forward. Anyway... after taking a series of these classes for several years... the teacher suddenly became ill only moments before teaching the class. With a hand across her aching forehead, she said weakly, "Would you please teach the class Dawn?".

Suddenly I was put in a position as the authority and I knew that the words in the course were not the real teaching for something else was happening on a deeper level with energy during the workshops. In order to remain true to the teachings I began to read from the workbook. About 5 minutes into the class I was 'overshadowed' by a very powerful consciousness. This being worked through me, with my permission, and left about 15 minutes after the class ended, and never returned to use me again. During the class, I was amazed to realize that this being felt a sense of the ridiculous, because it truly understood all students there to be a part of itself. Answering questions put from itself to itself was an exercise in the ridiculous. No answers were actually true, because all questions were based on a false assumption that the people there were separate from it and from eachother. All answers had to be addressed as though each person in the class was separate from it. I was truly amazed to witness to this. Imagine the 'love(?)' that is needed to come into a class and speak to itself in a way that would allow the disconnected parts to re-join eventually(??? or what was the real reason it was there???). The interesting thing is, that our human teacher did not remember asking me to teach the class, did not know she was asleep during the class, and to this day does not remember anything about that afternoon. As far as the participants... they frankly told me that they felt no respect for me as a 'teacher' until about 5 minutes into the class (when I was overshadowed)

Now, an event like this puts a different spin on what we are looking at. What or Who came in and taught the class? And, why can't the teacher remember that she had a sudden severe headache and needed to sleep for the entire 4 hour class?

Was this a 'divine Djinn?

Was this a 'higher spirit'? What is a 'higher spirit'?

Who was that invisible being?

Was it feeding on the energies produced as students were, one by one, stimulated to bring up an emotional reaction and then release that energy?

Even if it was feeding on 'us'... was it benevolent?

Did it send part of its 'spirit' into this reality in order to harvest energy from its 'farm'?

[Synchronicity]

On one level:

My interpretation of chocolate’s post is that the perceptions and beliefs create where I spend my time. Therefore, it’s important to be vigilant of the mind dialogue.

At another level:

Even though I see from the larger perspective, my heart weeps for the tortured. At times, it’s what moves me in the here and now. The best I can contribute is to continue in discovery. Be a part of that which fosters change/direction.

RunningDeer <3

Very well said Running Deer. I'd like to post another personal story as food for thought in this discussion:

About 15 years ago I was learning a method of gaining freedom through the release of the emotional programs which plague us all. The original work in discovering this came from Lester Levenson, while the course was developed by his partner, Virginia. As far as I know, there is only one person on the planet who still carries this forward. Anyway... after taking a series of these classes for several years... the teacher suddenly became ill only moments before teaching the class. With a hand across her aching forehead, she said weakly, "Would you please teach the class Dawn?".

Suddenly I was put in a position as the authority and I knew that the words in the course were not the real teaching for something else was happening on a deeper level with energy during the workshops. In order to remain true to the teachings I began to read from the workbook. About 5 minutes into the class I was 'overshadowed' by a very powerful consciousness. This being worked through me, with my permission, and left about 15 minutes after the class ended, and never returned to use me again. During the class, I was amazed to realize that this being felt a sense of the ridiculous, because it truly understood all students there to be a part of itself. Answering questions put from itself to itself was an exercise in the ridiculous. No answers were actually true, because all questions were based on a false assumption that the people there were separate from it and from eachother. All answers had to be addressed as though each person in the class was separate from it. I was truly amazed to witness to this. Imagine the 'love(?)' that is needed to come into a class and speak to itself in a way that would allow the disconnected parts to re-join eventually(??? or what was the real reason it was there???). The interesting thing is, that our human teacher did not remember asking me to teach the class, did not know she was asleep during the class, and to this day does not remember anything about that afternoon. As far as the participants... they frankly told me that they felt no respect for me as a 'teacher' until about 5 minutes into the class (when I was overshadowed)

Now, an event like this puts a different spin on what we are looking at. What or Who came in and taught the class? And, why can't the teacher remember that she had a sudden severe headache and needed to sleep for the entire 4 hour class?

Was this a 'divine Djinn?

Was this a 'higher spirit'? What is a 'higher spirit'?

Who was that invisible being?

Was it feeding on the energies produced as students were, one by one, stimulated to bring up an emotional reaction and then release that energy?

Even if it was feeding on 'us'... was it benevolent?

Did it send part of its 'spirit' into this reality in order to harvest energy from its 'farm'?

Perhaps you were to learn that you could teach or whoever it was felt strongly that you were to teach that day...maybe students needed to hear what the guest had to say? It was with your permission, no one was harmed, they enjoyed the class, and it all worked out except for the teacher not remembering. Was she upset about that or did she accept that for some reason you were to teach it? Interesting....really interesting! Many times when I teach or do public speaking and have asked for guidance from compassionate healing guides I feel that someone speaks through me. I remember what is said and do it happily, but what I say is "exactly what I needed to hear today" and it comes through and not from me. I understand that experience.

The teacher part is interesting. Did the experience make you want to teach?

[ghostrider]

As we begin to touch the revolutionary rays of the central sun of our galaxy , since 1844 the energy that blankets the earth causes rapid change to everything , it's a new epoch , we will complete it in 2028 ... heading toward the constellation Hercules ... exploring meditation these days , one will encounter many hurdles , a process of learning to overcome and control our thoughts , sort of a spiritual awakening on steroids at the speed of thought ... you are more powerful than you know , it's just a matter of exploring and dealing with the new energies ...

[Dawn]

Syncronicity: The teacher part is interesting. Did the experience make you want to teach?

I don't really wish to step into a 'teacher role'. This seems to put students in a role where they are looking outside of themselves. And, as far as I can tell the 'teacher/student' program is not beneficial to humans most of the time. If/when I teach I usually push students 'out of the nest' fairly quickly so that they do not develop a dependence on outside authority. And mostly these days I just teach people a few simple tools to free themselves.

I agree, this class seemed benign, even though the entity lied in answering all the questions (which were in turn based on lies in its view). I think the word might be that the class was 'taught' in 'harmony'. Perhaps this is somewhat like our relationship with a cow when we milk her. If we are a good farmer then we are kind and caring in our relationship to the cow.

This experience went on past my story and the remainder of it actually does not appear benign.

The class was explained to me as 'taking a thorn and using it to pick the other thorns stuck in you out'.... then when that job is done you need to throw away the thorn you used.

In the end, the final job was to stop using the technique, and that was difficult! Why? Well, it appeared that something that resonated with evil was living on the energy of the released emotions and did not want me to stop doing this. I was physically and mentally tortured by this entity to attempt to force me to continue a practice of releasing emotions using this method. It took about 6 months for the punishment to stop. It was rather like saying no to a 'drug loving' entity, which forces the actions of drug addicts, so it can continue to feed.

EDIT: I didn't explain that 'in the end' referred to what happened after the technique was mastered (after about 4 years in my case).... as far as the class 'I' taught... there was no taint after that one. The thing is that entities without bodies can be very tricky... what begins in a good way may not end that way!

[Synchronicity]

I think too that sometimes people equate meditation only with sitting still and emptying the mind or focusing on a light or mantra...I would guess not people posting here, but many others. Taking a nature walk and listening to nature or listening to the brook babble, cooking a meal and putting in specific ingredients with specific health intentions and healing energy can be a meditation, as can jogging and focusing on clearing mind or repeating something positive, drinking a cup of tea savoring it as it slips down the throat, building something, singing, martial arts....it can be in so many forms that there is something for anyone. But intention is the important part...it's nice how it can be what a person finds works for him or her and not only what a monk who can sit for hours does. :)

[RunningDeer]

On one level:

My interpretation of chocolate’s post is that the perceptions and beliefs create where I spend my time. Therefore, it’s important to be vigilant of the mind dialogue.

At another level:

Even though I see from the larger perspective, my heart weeps for the tortured. At times, it’s what moves me in the here and now. The best I can contribute is to continue in discovery. Be a part of that which fosters change/direction.

RunningDeer <3

Very well said Running Deer. I'd like to post another personal story as food for thought in this discussion:

About 15 years ago I was learning a method of gaining freedom through the release of the emotional programs which plague us all. The original work in discovering this came from Lester Levenson, while the course was developed by his partner, Virginia. As far as I know, there is only one person on the planet who still carries this forward. Anyway... after taking a series of these classes for several years... the teacher suddenly became ill only moments before teaching the class. With a hand across her aching forehead, she said weakly, "Would you please teach the class Dawn?".

Suddenly I was put in a position as the authority and I knew that the words in the course were not the real teaching for something else was happening on a deeper level with energy during the workshops. In order to remain true to the teachings I began to read from the workbook. About 5 minutes into the class I was 'overshadowed' by a very powerful consciousness. This being worked through me, with my permission, and left about 15 minutes after the class ended, and never returned to use me again. During the class, I was amazed to realize that this being felt a sense of the ridiculous, because it truly understood all students there to be a part of itself. Answering questions put from itself to itself was an exercise in the ridiculous. No answers were actually true, because all questions were based on a false assumption that the people there were separate from it and from eachother. All answers had to be addressed as though each person in the class was separate from it. I was truly amazed to witness to this. Imagine the 'love(?)' that is needed to come into a class and speak to itself in a way that would allow the disconnected parts to re-join eventually(??? or what was the real reason it was there???). The interesting thing is, that our human teacher did not remember asking me to teach the class, did not know she was asleep during the class, and to this day does not remember anything about that afternoon. As far as the participants... they frankly told me that they felt no respect for me as a 'teacher' until about 5 minutes into the class (when I was overshadowed)

Now, an event like this puts a different spin on what we are looking at. What or Who came in and taught the class? And, why can't the teacher remember that she had a sudden severe headache and needed to sleep for the entire 4 hour class?

Was this a 'divine Djinn?

Was this a 'higher spirit'? What is a 'higher spirit'?

Who was that invisible being?

Was it feeding on the energies produced as students were, one by one, stimulated to bring up an emotional reaction and then release that energy?

Even if it was feeding on 'us'... was it benevolent?

Did it send part of its 'spirit' into this reality in order to harvest energy from its 'farm'?

First, wow! For myself, I’d not want anyone to use my body as vessel. Though, I’m open to working peer to peer.

I don’t have the types of experiences you do. But if it was a benevolent exchange, a couple of things come to mind if I’ve interpreted your post correctly:

I’d not see it as “feeding on the energies” if it was benevolent assistance. Sometimes the 'who' is secondary to the net effect from the experience. (Make no mistake, I'd want to know who I'm working with.)

The emotional reactions, migraine, non-recall, any triggers may have been because of the high octane energies a-swirling from the whole.

I’d say it was a gifted opportunity for all involved from the divine/higher spirit/or fill in the blank vocabulary word that provided knowledge, release or whatever each needed in that moment.

RunningDeer <3

P.S. Disclaimer: All the above may be a hot-air-posting. (insert smile here)

UPDATE: Hi Dawn. I just read your current post. Seems I've misinterpreted the original one. I thought in the end, people walked away enriched.


In the end, the final job was to stop using the technique, and that was difficult! Why? Well, it appeared that something that resonated with evil was living on the energy of the released emotions and did not want me to stop doing this. I was physically and mentally tortured by this entity to attempt to force me to continue a practice of releasing emotions using this method. It took about 6 months for the punishment to stop. It was rather like saying no to a 'drug loving' entity, which forces the actions of drug addicts, so it can continue to feed.

[Synchronicity]

Syncronicity: The teacher part is interesting. Did the experience make you want to teach?

I don't really wish to step into a 'teacher role'. This seems to put students in a role where they are looking outside of themselves. And, as far as I can tell the 'teacher/student' program is not beneficial to humans most of the time. If/when I teach I usually push students 'out of the nest' fairly quickly so that they do not develop a dependence on outside authority. And mostly these days I just teach people a few simple tools to free themselves.

I agree, this class seemed benign, even though the entity lied in answering all the questions (which were in turn based on lies in its view). I think the word might be that the class was 'taught' in 'harmony'. Perhaps this is somewhat like our relationship with a cow when we milk her. If we are a good farmer then we are kind and caring in our relationship to the cow.

This experience went on past my story and the remainder of it actually does not appear benign.

The class was explained to me as 'taking a thorn and using it to pick the other thorns stuck in you out'.... then when that job is done you need to throw away the thorn you used.

In the end, the final job was to stop using the technique, and that was difficult! Why? Well, it appeared that something that resonated with evil was living on the energy of the released emotions and did not want me to stop doing this. I was physically and mentally tortured by this entity to attempt to force me to continue a practice of releasing emotions using this method. It took about 6 months for the punishment to stop. It was rather like saying no to a 'drug loving' entity, which forces the actions of drug addicts, so it can continue to feed.

Well, now with the rest of the information I would wonder about the intentions of whatever it was. That is too bad. I wouldn't want anyone to hang around and cause pain or suffering that is torture and wouldn't stop. I agree with what was said in a different post...it is fine peer to peer and with permission, but when I step back and ask compassionate healers to work thought me it is different than what you experienced and they leave when finished. I agree the energy was swirling and maybe too much for your teacher to cope with, but ethical work from your channeled person would have included leaving when you were finished and making sure she was okay. I hope that you have healed from your experience, and that if you still feel something around that you can get some help to remove it.

[carryattune]

I am not sure about a thing.🐣🐣🐣🐣🐣🐣🐣🐣🐣🐣🐣🐣🐣🐣🐣🐣🐣🐣🐣🐣🐣🐣🐣

[Synchronicity]

Sunny-side-up:
Thankyou for your post. I think we do the best we can. Many times I believe overcoming our own problems is much more involved than most of us know. I was initiated into Reiki two years ago. I sincerely hoped I did not pick up anything bad. But I have wondered. Even in religious ceremonies there are many suplications we make. I have not ever thought of that as inviting others in. Goodness, I don't think it would be possible to be on guard to the degree necessary to stay safe, if it was so easy to become possessed. At least I hope not. I hi-lighted that particular sentence, because I have often said that to family and friends. Because, IMHO you are correct, if we could all wake up with the ability to manifest our thoughts and wants instantly....everything would be over in a snap. We wouldn't know what hit us.

If you had a qualified, ethical teacher who was aware of proper procedures you would be fine from Reiki attunements. Only positive and compassionate helping spirits are to be invited into any healing space, and the Reiki guides would be there as well. Really, I have attuned many, many people over the years and not one every had any problem with this. Now, before I attune I teach protection, intent, and self-care, so that helps, but if done with proper intent by trained and healthy teachers in a positive environment people don't take bad things home after Reiki attunements. While many of us go around with energy we have picked up along our lives and the day, that isn't the same as possession. And yes, some see guides or loved ones during attunements, but you would know by the feelings you had and your intuition if something was off during a class or attunement. Brushing off often and other "energy hygiene" methods can help us not pick up everything around us, and then if you are healthy energetically you are safer.

This all also goes back to finding teachers who feel right to us. If the energy is weird or your gut is warning you, get up and leave and go elsewhere. Reiki teachers and other energy workers or teachers are human and some aren't very nice or healthy...creepy stuff. But many are good or better than that and if you have a real one you should be fine. If something feels off you should have the opportunity to talk to your teacher and come get help if something comes up in your healing, which does happen sometimes, and if they aren't open to that it is another red flag. Sorry..I will stop now. I get a bit enthusiastic :o

[Dawn]

Sycronicity: Well, now with the rest of the information I would wonder about the intentions of whatever it was. That is too bad. I wouldn't want anyone to hang around and cause pain or suffering that is torture and wouldn't stop. I agree with what was said in a different post...it is fine peer to peer and with permission, but when I step back and ask compassionate healers to work thought me it is different than what you experienced and they leave when finished. I agree the energy was swirling and maybe too much for your teacher to cope with, but ethical work from your channeled person would have included leaving when you were finished and making sure she was okay. I hope that you have healed from your experience, and that if you still feel something around that you can get some help to remove it.

EDIT: I didn't explain that 'in the end' referred to what happened after the technique was mastered (after about 4 years in my case).... as far as the class 'I' taught... there was no taint after that one. The thing is that entities without bodies can be very tricky... what begins in a good way may not end that way!


Syncronicity: If you had a qualified, ethical teacher who was aware of proper procedures you would be fine from Reiki attunements. Only positive and compassionate helping spirits are to be invited into any healing space, and the Reiki guides would be there as well. Really, I have attuned many, many people over the years and not one every had any problem with this. Now, before I attune I teach protection, intent, and self-care, so that helps, but if done with proper intent by trained and healthy teachers in a positive environment people don't take bad things home after Reiki attunements. While many of us go around with energy we have picked up along our lives and the day, that isn't the same as possession. And yes, some see guides or loved ones during attunements, but you would know by the feelings you had and your intuition if something was off during a class or attunement. Brushing off often and other "energy hygiene" methods can help us not pick up everything around us, and then if you are healthy energetically you are safer.


This is interesting because you might not be informed of what is going on here. I have had several Master Reiki teachers tell me that many lines of Reiki are 'tainted'. I have had my Reiki energy tested by these teachers and they say it is OK. I am certain that other qualified and ethical teachers do not realize they are passing on 'tainted' Reiki. Here's what I am coming to realize, energies from invisible realms are not supplied to us 'for free'. Jinn are tricky and stories of this abound in folklore. I believe that your post might be naive.

[carryattune]

Stay strong. Love and be loved.

[Freed Fox]

Thanks to everyone sharing their thoughts, experiences, and feelings here.

I feel compelled to add my small two cents, in broad terms, for what it's worth. I ask it not be taken as a challenge or attack on anyone here, as it's not intended as such.

When discussing matters like these, such as djinn, we are speaking of what is widely considered an extra/multi-dimensional phenomena and as such it is inherently beyond any firm grasp. These are things largely unseen, and even when we have intimate experiences with them, they are still largely beyond our perceptual capabilities. Therefore, it would seem a matter of common sense that no one can fully understand what is really going on.

( EDIT: ) OBEs, astral travel, and other spiritual endeavors to that effect, I believe, expand our perceptual capabilities and serve to somewhat mitigate the uncertainty above. Though, I think it is feasible that even in these states, we may still be in relatively shallow waters in what may be a deep and vast metaphorical ocean. Valuable insights, but not necessarily the definitive, end-all-be-all on these matters.

It is only logical that existences in other dimensional planes are AT LEAST as complex as life is here. When you delve into the study of physics, ecology, climatology, and cellular biology, you come to see that life (here, on this plane) is indeed complex, no matter how much we like to simplify it on an individual basis.

Trying to understand the 'other-dimensional', and to paint that in broad strokes, is just a bit like trying to understand marine biology and ecosystems by closing your eyes and sticking your hand in a lake.

As I said, I appreciate the insights, and I certainly welcome more on that front. Still, I firmly believe we should avoid generalizing and/or conforming to anyone else's personal perspective and/or track record of experiences (however far reaching), and I believe that to be the best approach regarding extra-terrestrials as well (as much of the above applies to that as well; being too far removed from the 'big picture' to make any absolute assertions). Incorporate what makes sense to you, what 'resonates', but remain open for revision and new (unexpected) experiences.

Also; positive energy. :)

[Dawn]

carryatune: Well, I live fairly close to the International Reiki Center. I did not go there for the training. It is very hard to get in. However, I believe the instructors linage was clean.

Thanks for this report... I am not questioning your personal situation. I am just opening up to the possibility that many of us have been dabbling in things we really don't know anything about. And I find it interesting that it is known that many of the Reiki lines are now corrupt and actually bad for those being treated. I guess you could say that I am increasing my own awareness as to what is going on.

Personally I still think the healing modality which looks back in time to agreements we have made which are still influencing us in negative ways may be our best hope of freeing ourselves from negative entity involvement, including Jinn and Reptilian harassment. This would be Healing Kinetics, for example.


freed fix: Incorporate what makes sense to you, what 'resonates', but remain open for revision and new (unexpected) experiences.

Also; positive energy.

Well said IMHO

[TraineeHuman]

I can attest from my own experience that there is at least one group of non-human beings who do indeed attempt to take over organized groups engaged in things like meditation and spiritual evolution etc.; and that sometimes they succeed in doing so. Before describing some of my experience of that, I'd like to say, though, that it's also my direct experience that humanity as a whole is the recipient of extraordinary levels of protection from benevolent beings. And I've seen no real evidence that "our negative emotions are food" for certain unsavory beings -- partly, I guess, because that statement is so vague it can mean almost anything. And as far as the memory wiping before birth goes, again, it's my direct experience that the person being born voluntarily and very knowingly agrees to that, partly because they don't want to carry over the burden of past-life burdens in a direct way.

I used to be involved with a certain group which had two leaders. Around two a.m. one night, I awoke out of body in the upper mental, and as far as I was aware I was "traveling" without any kind of body at all, through something like the Void. I found myself in a telepathic conversation, in English, with one of the two leaders -- though they were both in communication with each other at the time also. The female one believed I was an ET of some kind and she very much wanted me to join their project. That project, she explained to me, was that the two leaders were using the members of the group as guinea pigs for psychic research that was for the benefit of certain non-human beings, to assist those beings to evolve spiritually. EBEs? Unbenevolent greys of some kind? I wasn't sure. The trouble with the word "Djinn" is it's so vague, and different people use it to mean different types of creatures.

Anyway, she kept repeating that the humans, who by the way all were paying good money to attend the classes and nonverbal eyegazing therapy sessions, "had no rights". "They're just cattle," she kept repeating to me, with a bit of a laugh. I on the other hand kept trying to protest that her take on things was utterly unethical. After about fifteen minutes of this, the other leader managed to recognize who I was, from the manner in which I expressed myself. After that, back in the physical world I suddenly found myself treated as if I was the poorest student in the whole group, and about a month later I was kicked out altogether.

[chocolate]

I will try to expand on my previous posts, which I have done yesterday, without any desire to offend or defend anything or anyone, for I had to read a few other threads to realized that some of what I may add here might be only beneficial for the overall picture. I will refrain myself from involving any ETs, jinns, or other labels for 'beings', spiritual/inter-dimensional/benevolent/malevolent, etc.

For anyone thinking or our reality as one of inter-connected-ness it may not be a novel concept that everything affects everything else, even if we don't have a conscious knowledge about that involvement. With that in mind one needs to just jump to the next step realizing that everything that one 'touches' with his body, or with his is mind, or through his spirit, 'touches' him back. "Darkness becomes you", if darkness is your current location of mind, or spirit.
(Here I speak from a very personal experience!).

Having said that some people hold the idea that it is very important for anyone to be conscious of his thoughts, inner desires, hopes, fears, emotions, overall experiences, etc. That is the reason why some people, me included, are very careful what they decide to allow, or welcome in their inner worlds, simply for being aware of the law or 'inter-connected-ness', that this approach becomes a natural way of life. That is especially relevant to all who can consider themselves 'sensitive'. That label suggests allowing to sense, or be one-with something or someone else. Some of us are more sensitive than others, by design or by our choice(!) and the rest simply comes with the area.
But being sensitive, or open for communication, does not necessarily mean that one needs, or wants, to be a victim, or to have unpleasant experiences. It only involves getting to know a bit more on the subject.
Having said that this particular thread is not helping much in that area. I sense the initial impulse to be only positive, but the result is somewhat confusing, at least from my point of view.

I have been involved with energy work all my life. I practice yoga, on and off, I was initiated in Reiki, and I happened to know for a fact that my brain operates a bit differently, as physical wavelengths. I am what one might call a brain in almost constant meditative status. I did not choose it to be that way, neither I want it to be that way, and I had quite some problems learning to navigate in this life being the way I am. That is my only personal input, so that people get to realize I don't just speak because I want to show off. I have allowed myself the luxury of expressing a few more personal details simply because I don't have the luxury of personally meeting all of those who would need that answer I am trying to bring about.

I also happen to see this world a bit differently, that is why I can only offer my point of view, but anyone is free to take what one needs or can.

The energy running through the human body has been put in as many labels as fashionable with the years, mystified, demystified, shown on pictures and schematics. But when you let a scientist look at it, he may offer you a very simple explanation. All the complex you may have heard of in qi gong/hinduism/buddhism/yoga/religion/etc. can be also illustrated as electro-magnetic currents and vortexes and relationships, and they are all connected to the currents of the Earth, and to the currents of everything else in the manner I mention at the start above. The mind, or the spirit-mind connected together, have control over almost everything, and can alter those currents to an extend depending on the level the person is on all levels- physically, emotionally, spiritually, and as an overall awareness. I am not claiming to be all-knowing in all areas, but as means of simple representation it is not all that mysterious, and can be understood on one level, scientific or more abstract, whichever feels natural for everyone.

As for beings being around us between dimensions or in our current reality, nobody can prove to anybody anything unless those are experienced personally. I can say for myself that I tent to lean in some way to some of them being more real than others. And that is the extend I will go in that area. I will leave it open for anyone to interpret in whichever way comfortable.

If those phenomena come from our current reality than they are most likely energetically connected to all of us, and if allowed probably can interfere.
if they come from another 'dimension' (i am using a widely adopted term, but that is not what I literary mean by using that exact word). Than based on the way I see the world those beings can only enter through the spirit-mind connection of each single person, and not through the physical energetic currents of the body.

In both ways the only thing that would matter is the openness of the recipient- energetic or as a mind-spirit connection.

Since our bodies have been constructed quite well and sound to start with, if the mind-spirit(+emotions) don't interfere in a negative way with the physicality of the body, there will be not much openness for unwanted 'intrusions'. But because we wander in many areas without proper mental, spiritual, emotional, physical preparation and awareness (and the mind is mostly the supplier of a good level of awareness, being mind-oriented in the last hundreds of years) we become all victims with or without our knowledge.

Of course there are also those who have been violated in some way, and manipulated to the extend to have some of the connections largely damaged (not broken, but just damaged temporarily), those individuals can, and become, an easy target, and are an easy victims of intrusions. Once they realize that they are holding the key ( which is their mind and understanding of the situation), they can attain a level of security, sometimes with an outside (even beyond our current reality) help.

But simply stating 'don't do mediation, or qi gong (or any real martial arts for that matter), yoga, reiki, or what-have-you' is like saying, 'being alive is dangerous'. Yes, it is, so why bother?!

Any real martial arts practitioner will have a really fun time reading this thread (and smiling). Because all those people throughout the centuries have used extensively the power of the mind through mediation, or manipulation of 'chi', to win their battles. If you ask anyone doing it for real they can attest that there are ways to properly seal the energy body to make it 'impenetrable' mostly from the physical perspective.

So instead of claiming that using eye drops and some kind of words to deal with 'entities' is an acceptable solution, and instead of clinging onto the fear mode, we can move forward by means of one better, if not full, understanding of our world and our part in it.

The 'Mind' is the key, so why not use it, consciously?
Or put in other words, don't allow yourself to be in the position of a victim, and you will not be.
That sometimes involves feeling real love (as real understanding) for everything and everyone, yourself included, but sometimes involves just using your common sense and to stay out of situations and certain areas.

There is also the saying 'be careful what you wish for, for you might get it'.

Be at peace, and know you are safe by design! The rest is your input-interference-result in the situation.

:)

[Dawn]

theVoyager: Not many want to hear about this kind of information since it's scary to know that we are not the last on the food chain and that we do not know the rules of how this game is being played. So we keep on getting into agreements and agreements of entrapments.

Once you know about the laws of Lore, all becomes much clearer. And then you start to understand that it is not about the protection (which is like waving a huge flag that says 'I haven't got a clue, I feel powerless, come and get me') but about knowing the laws of Lore - the knowledge of universal laws that govern creation.
HK knowledge is very powerful and very fast. In one session you can achieve things you can't imagine with other techniques that many times don't even reach deep enough and stay on the level of the soul, which is the programming but not the real cause of the issue we are having. It's a modality where you need to work for yourself. It is not for people who prefer to stay in the 'I'm not responsible' zone and take some alternative medicine 'no need to really move myself pills'.

On Steve's web site, section "Future Seminars & Upcoming Events" you can see where he is going to be this year. If you have time and finances to travel, you might be able to have a session with him this April since his intention is to come to the US. Otherwise you can ask him to recommend you the nearest HK practitioner to you.
As far as I know he started to teach in the States and in Europe in 2012.

With permission from theVoyager I am posting this PM I got a few days ago. I'd like to add that I resonate very strongly with the information he provides about 'protection' not working. I have been on the 'spiritual path' all of my life and have tried many types of protection. I can tell you first hand that they DO NOT WORK! If you are experiencing them as working for you then there are other unknown reasons that you think they are effective. Perhaps you do not have any ages old agreements which would allow them to meddle with you. Perhaps you are not aware enough to clearly see if they are working or not, or perhaps the Jinn that introduce themselves to you are using 'love' and other 'bliss' energies to get a toe hold with you. When you meet beings that feel good to you... watch out... for in time they will likely turn into something else entirely and your experience of them will be very different. (info on the classes being discussed are here: http://www.holographickinetics.com/)



Chocolate: Since our bodies have been constructed quite well and sound to start with, if the mind-spirit(+emotions) don't interfere in a negative way with the physicality of the body, there will be not much openness for unwanted 'intrusions'. But because we wander in many areas without proper mental, spiritual, emotional, physical preparation and awareness (and the mind is mostly the supplier of a good level of awareness, being mind-oriented in the last hundreds of years) we become all victims with or without our knowledge.

I do not have this experience Chocolate, and I never have. My bloodline includes ilumanati, a grandad who was a Grand Master mason (read as infested by reptilian energy), native american souix, and celtic lines. My blood type is O-. When you read about which bloodlines are being experimented with, you will find that all of these are on the top of the list.

I don't want this thread to be a fear porn one. Yet I think it is very important to really look at what is happening here. Frankly, all evidence points to the fact that 'HUMANS ARE NOT ON THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN!'.


Chocolate: That sometimes involves feeling real love (as real understanding) for everything and everyone, yourself included, but sometimes involves just using your common sense and to stay out of situations and certain areas.

I TOTALLY agree with this statement. I have gotten this far by remaining in the frequency of love and truth.... I have learned something very interesting..... most negative entities actually project the energy of FEAR at us. If we 'own' this energy by deciding 'I am afraid' then we become their victims. If, instead, we remain resonating in LOVE then we are not dropping into the victim frequencies. If we do not resonate as victims then they do not seem to be able to do much, if any, damage.... In fact I usually offer my help to them, if they will accept it. Often they do accept the help and I use a shower of 'love' to help them become balanced. When I do this they often morph into a completely different energetic being and shower me with gratitude in return.

So....we are looking at ways to turn the tables so that we can move away from a reality that uses us like ignorant cattle as a food source.

[Synchronicity]

Well, I agree that we can think we're protected and not be. I would also say that it depends on what you do and the intent. But no, we aren't on the top of the food chain and that is fine, since it also doesn't mean we are helpless.

And yes, some lines of any energy practice are contaminated. I come across students who are trying to learn upper levels who were obviously not taught what they needed to know and are vulnerable. We work that through before they finish the next level. And it isn't a bad thing not to get into a particular Reiki program. I have had teachers from various backgrounds, and I have to say the one from the one you mention wasn't any better a teacher or more "pure" of a lineage than anyone else. It's the individual and their background and intent that matters in the long run, whether they work on their own healing and whether they are open to learn and listen to what the students need and make sure they are safe.

I think the point is also that if a person comes from one background and has one set of tools/gifts/skills, of course the person will think those are useful and use them. Just as a surgeon often recommends surgery and may have a great rate of success, while the acupuncturist may see his or her set of skills as the best way to go, the therapist may think the person has mental health issues and just need some pills and talk therapy, it's easy to get into the mindset that one way is the best. There are many ways to achieve healing and maintain balance in life, and although I am very careful about who does energy work on me and very careful with my students and clients, I recognize that we all have our own negative experiences and we all have read different warnings and so forth, so one may think yoga is awesome and one may think it's evil. I just don't see one right answer for everyone, and I know that meditation, Reiki, shamanic work, yoga, Chinese medicine, traditional Western medicine, massage (very helpful but of course if the therapist is carrying negative energy you could pick it up), and many other therapies/techniques can be wonderful and really helpful or damaging depending on the practitioner and the situation.

I agree it's common sense. If someone, some place, or some situation doesn't feel right to us we should be listening to that warning. That is when we can take time to find out if we are afraid of changing our lives and giving up something we don't need any more, if we are afraid because of something we read or an image we saw that wasn't really related to our particular moment of time, or if our gut is telling us we need a different teacher, therapist, friend, mate, or whatever. That to me is the trickiest part. I may not be the top of the food chain and if humans didn't have fatal weapons many other animals would have eaten us before any other influences would need to bother us. I just choose to not feel tossed about by whatever comes along as far as life situations, new information, images, articles...I will learn and consider, but in the end it's that common sense and whether something makes me feel better or worse that I listen to. I love raw onions and I know they are good for us in general, but I just can't eat them without being sick, therefore I know they aren't good for me personally and don't eat them. I don't care if a psychic tells me I need to eat them or the nutritionist tells me they are nutritious. I know they are, but they tear me up for two days, so why would I do that to myself? Some foods agree with me, I love them, they are healthy, and I'm not going to stop eating them without really hard proof there is a reason.

This quote from Dawn sums up how I feel about the fear. So many of the things we are afraid are projections to make us back off and accept. If I did that every time a shadow or some dark shape showed up in my energy work nothing would ever get done except I would be attacked and invaded. It's almost always nothing scary, but if I am afraid I open myself to that darkness. Sometimes it is they who are afraid and lost and just need help, and if they are not in need of help and aren't positive they can't stay...and they don't.


TOTALLY agree with this statement. I have gotten this far by remaining in the frequency of love and truth.... I have learned something very interesting..... most negative entities actually project the energy of FEAR at us. If we 'own' this energy by deciding 'I am afraid' then we become their victims. If, instead, we remain resonating in LOVE then we are not dropping into the victim frequencies. If we do not resonate as victims then they do not seem to be able to do much, if any, damage.... In fact I usually offer my help to them, if they will accept it. Often they do accept the help and I use a shower of 'love' to help them become balanced. When I do this they often morph into a completely different energetic being and shower me with gratitude in return.

So....we are looking at ways to turn the tables so that we can move away from a reality that uses us like ignorant cattle as a food source.

None of us can prove in some irrefutable way most things we believe, so all we can do is find what works for us, share it if we are asked, and do what we can do to be protected and informed. What works for one person might not for others. There is no situation where I would want painful and traumatic experiences to be part of my own path...I have experienced enough of those already. Dawn's paragraph said it well. So many times we misinterpret things and can get caught up in waves of fear, when that was the weapon used and not anything fatal unless we allow that seed of fear to be planted and grow. Just my view...we all have a history and come to different conclusions.

[Sirius White]

Bull****.

Unless you do it irresponsibly, haven't cleansed your body or energy centers, and invite them in.

Very common lingo though among the religious types.

[Dawn]

Sirius White: Bull****.

Unless you do it irresponsibly, haven't cleansed your body or energy centers, and invite them in.

Very common lingo though among the religious types.

Excuse me? Would you please explain your carefully thought out post so that the rest of us can understand you. This is a discussion and tossing in emotional grenades are not welcome here. I am giving you a courteous reply to a post from you that does not appear to be courteous at all. If you are not able to participate as a contributor in this discussion group, so that we can all benefit from your knowledge and experience, please refrain from posting on this thread. If you actually have something to contribute I am very interested in seeing it.

[Synchronicity]

Bull****.

Unless you do it irresponsibly, haven't cleansed your body or energy centers, and invite them in.

Very common lingo though among the religious types.

I didn't mean to thank you for the BS part. I do agree that many religious groups use similar terms.

[TraineeHuman]

I believe I can relate to Dawn's notion of having felt somehow guilty. But I can also appreciate what I believe is chocolate's point, as a kind of flip side of that.

Regarding that subtle guilt: I think we're all familiar with the concept that we're all really Source itself, playing hide-and-seek with itself so deeply that most of us have forgotten Who we are. I believe there's a feeling of existential inadequacy -- call it guilt, if you like -- once we (or some of us) become aware, at times anyway, that we are indeed literally Source, yet can't fully realize it in the physical world by any means. Or maybe even just vaguely aware that we might be or probably are Source after all. I think chocolate's point has to do with what happens if we could just manage to stay in union with Source all the time. In that case, any problems with unsavory astral entities or beings or forces etc would, for us, turn into paper tigers within a paper matrix, a pseudo-universe, that we otherwise would have taken as reality. On the other hand, if we do take that as real, then of course -- being almighty Source -- we breathe into it the breath of Life, giving it terrifying power. As you do.

I'd also like to mention that I happen to know that the whole adventure was supposed to be fun for us all the way -- even on this super-dense planet. Yes, even a life where you're starving for most of your life, in Africa or wherever. The heroic challenge to us all is to find that underlying fun -- well, that joy and peace, to be precise. The legitimate joy and peace I have in mind isn't a Trojan gift from sneaky out-of-physical beings. As I'll explain. Though I'm quite sure there are many fake versions used as bait for traps also. I've seen some. But I feel it's easy to get things right out of proportion, into what I suspect may then become solid fear or paranoia after all.

Surely, once our "higher" consciousness has truly descended into us, or is truly released in us, isn't there at least a steady quiet but immense peacefulness that we can feel deep within us always? Isn't there a great presence in us then, which we also feel, without doubt, to be absolutely everywhere? I ask you, is that presence not the most certain of all certainties possible for a human being? Are we not then also truly "home", and in some ways forever safe? Is it not true that we can never be alone again, then? Not ever? Because we are at one with all, truly. And are we not then in touch with the the center of Reality itself? I know for a fact there's nothing phoney about that. I don't believe any Djinn or other being or God him/herself could fake it. Only you yourself can make it come about. It can't be given as a gift, with strings or without. This is a bit like the way that if you genuinely think you're happy, then it's absolutely true you are happy. No ifs or buts.

I think "Samuel" was correct in so far as he wanted to be in union with the great vast emptiness. But he was wrong in taking his feet out of the mud, be it the physical "mud" or higher "mud". Maybe he got an addiction to power and he pulled out of staying in the mud through intoxication with that? The game is meant to be that we learn to be in the vastness and also deep in the mud at the same time. How could one not remain generous and loving if one does that? For some reason, "Samuel" lost touch with honesty. We're all here to play with the mud -- until we get our fill of it. And even then we need to stay in it and transform it. And just by the way, wasn't playing with literal mud just the most fun thing you could do way back in pre-school?

As I've been saying in another thread, the whole notion of who we are is mostly a mental and emotional and social construct, just a shell. (So, also, is the identity of any of the supposed nasties!) Through repetition, we solidify all "our" patterns of behavior. Call them "habits" in some extended sense of that word, if you like. The challenge of our great cosmic adventure is to somehow realize that all of that is just a marionette show. Who we really are is the puppet master, who can and should bring on a new set of puppets at any time. True, we're not just puppets -- nor cattle. And because we're not, we do deserve to be treated with gigantic respect even while we've secretly convinced ourselves in our hearts that we must be mere puppets, even if we don't realize that's what we've done. You -- as Source -- paid for your ticket to limit yourself. No doubt you did so in order to thoroughly master the laborious art of unlimiting yourself. And maybe the nasties will help spur you on to do just that quicker, ultimately.

The truth is, we don't think, but thought occurs in us.
We don't feel (with the probable exception of the feeling of Aliveness and ultimately of being Source), but feeling occurs in us.
We don't act, but -- well, you know the rest.

I don't see the need for using the word "possession", because I consider that's a little extreeeme. At the same time, I do happen to know that absolutely everyone has Hitchhikers living very deep in their heart, their consciousness. I suspect that most "possession" cases -- which are a rare phenomenon anyway, and known as multiple-personality syndrome -- just involve various sub-personalities within an individual coming to the surface quite dramatically, and more out of control than "normal". Actually, nearly everyone is controlled by a few sub-personalities they're usually not fully aware of -- plus even more so by several Hitchhikers lurking much deeper within. Ah, the great game of illusion. The great 3D and 4D and 5D movie. It beats Dungeons and Dragons, and so on. Like any great movie, though, you need to find a way to enjoy it, no matter how serious it gets. You need to get the comic relief.

Come on, folks. Let's pull the tails of those paper tigers -- once we truly come to see they aren't scary after all. Let's laugh in their faces then. Or treat them like they're normal (or delinquents) but handicapped by problems -- but not scary. Just, well, weak, really. They can't con you when you can genuinely laugh at them. Anyway, that's when the Beast gets transformed into the handsome and virtuous prince, isn't it?

But the best way, as chocolate has been pointing out, is to free yourself of all the constructs --as far as practicable, anyway. The ultimate challenge in all of this is for us to one day break free and discover that we ourselves are truly everything, everywhere. Puts a whole different perspective on the shell game.

[Delight]

People attracted to this thread may enjoy this video?


Did Buddha’s teachings survive and thrive because he was more attractive or charismatic than most, or because he was a great teacher and a tireless advocate of the poor? Or— and here’s the core question I’ll explore in detail— was it because he was an enlightened being with profound insights into the nature of reality, and because he possessed super-normal abilities? We might ask the same questions about Jesus, Moses, Mohammed, Milarepa, or a host of other historically prominent figures associated with special illumination, wisdom, or grace. Did these people just sport great tans and know how to work a crowd, or did they understand something genuinely deep about the human condition, about consciousness, and about our capacities, that are not yet within the purview of science?

8eJkFh1-5Yw

[Dawn]

Trainee Human: I don't see the need for using the word "possession", because I consider that's a little extreeeme. At the same time, I do happen to know that absolutely everyone has Hitchhikers living very deep in their heart, their consciousness. I suspect that most "possession" cases -- which are a rare phenomenon anyway, and known as multiple-personality syndrome -- just involve various sub-personalities within an individual coming to the surface quite dramatically, and more out of control than "normal". Actually, nearly everyone is controlled by a few sub-personalities they're usually not fully aware of -- plus even more so by several Hitchhikers lurking much deeper within. Ah, the great game of illusion. The great 3D and 4D and 5D movie. It beats Dungeons and Dragons, and so on. Like any great movie, though, you need to find a way to enjoy it, no matter how serious it gets. You need to get the comic relief.

I really look forward to your posts, as well as those of Chocolate and some of the amazing people who are contributing to this discussion. So, Trainee... you do not believe possession is common? I disagree totally. I think 99+% of all the people I've ever met have 'foreigners' living inside them. However it took me a long time to see this because our society carefully trains us not to be aware of it.

I have had so many instances of 'attacks' (I'll give examples in a moment) that I finally began to recognize a certain type of being looking out of people's eyes at me. Becoming aware that something non-human is looking out of the eyes of humans at me has been a long road.

Haven't you ever seen someone 'fly into a rage' and focus upon you? They may say something nasty... or do something physically to harm you.... have you thought this attack was coming from the person? I used to think so. Sometimes the person has a broken part of themselves which is walled off and carries the deep hurt of a past trauma... however I've found that 'something moves into the person' when this happens.

I've come to the conclusion that the meaning behind a couple of well known phrases likely points to the truth of this situation
"Forgive them, for they know not what they do"
"There is nothing to forgive"

The best way I can tell of this is with a couple of small illustrations from my life:
-My accountant folded his hands and looked squarely at me during one tax appointment. "You are going to go through bankruptcy", he said. After he said it a deep silence filled the room and my husband looked like he had just gone into a trance. I asked my accountant what caused him to say that, and he did not recall saying it at all... and my husband did not recall it either.

-On a trip to see a development in Mexico with a friend, she turned and said to us, "You don't have to do this you know". The sheer evil energy that filled the car when she spoke was so thick that you could have cut it with a knife. My normally (very consensus reality) grounded husband turned to me with big eyes in the backseat and said to me 'What WAS that speaking?' My friend swears she never turned and said anything to us. I decided to invest in land there despite the weird energy she displayed and lost my entire retirement account through a number of strange events that unfolded from this seminal event.

-My sister turned on me and became a wrathful entity during a trip to the high sierras last year to scatter the ashes of my parents. The evil energy directed at me and the mean things said were nearly beyond belief. Later she could not remember saying anything.

-After a number of rapes and molestations as a young woman I decided to heal the trauma energy involved in my sexuality. Part of this journey took me to a class where this was worked on in a community setting. The man I did one exercise with had 'something' come into his eyes... but he did not act according to its urging because of the class setting... In response I felt something 'evil' rise up and peek through my eyes. What was that? It resonated exactly with the energies of the rapists and molestors who had attacked me in my childhood... and it is not human IMO

-My ex-husband and I are still great friends. He is a loving and wonderful man. 2x in our 28 year marriage 'something' climbed into his body and became physically violent without warning or provocation. The first time we were in a motel and I allowed 'it' to rape me after slapping and hitting me, the second time was at our home and I got away after a few slaps by locking myself in the bedroom. At no other time in our marriage was my husband ever violent in any way, either physically or verbally. He has no recall what-so-ever of either of the 2 incidents.

So, here is what I have to say to you in answer to your post. You either do not have this demonic energy in your family line or in your life... or you are not yet aware that it is there. It is very tricky and very surprising, for the people who focus it appear to our 5 senses to be 'normal'... however the behavior and energy they display is not human.

[TheVoyager]

It's not so easy to recognize let alone admit to ourselves that there's "something inside" us that is not us. No wonder… we are born into amnesic vehicle and then taught everything but the truth about the rules of this game called physical mortal world.

The parts of us that are not us can be literally result of our own creation or can be an external interference that, one way or another, somewhere on the timeline got an access to our taurus field.

We are The Creators, our thoughts manifest. Thoughts start in the invisible and manifest in the visible world of matter. When there's a trauma a free flowing energy gets captured - our thoughts, our decisions lock into stress points of our body. From invisible to the visible of platonic geometry. Thought becomes a thought form and sets up cycles of similarity. The thought form eventually becomes a life form. At this stage it has the right to survive and it will do anything to put us in situations of similarity where it will get fed on the same that created it, because that's all it knows. It becomes a reproduction of itself for its own survival, a fractal of a hologram. And you become the host of an etheric parasite that's locked into you. It keeps on growing and learning about you and what makes you tick, it's evolving. At some point it reaches the next level and becomes an entity, an internal created entity. Reaching this point it starts taking over your vehicle and you get compulsive disorders, bipolar etc.

[TraineeHuman]

Dawn, I did say everyone has several Hitchhikers living deep in their heart. A person would need to be very aware to manage to even know that a specific Hitchhiker was there in them. They hide themselves very skilfully, and only strongly influence their host's behavior at rare but crucial times -- such as destroying your ex's marriage with you by suddenly being the dominant influence on two occasions only, perhaps. I see your point about calling this "possession".

I had an awfully hard time getting rid of a Hitchhiker who was the personality of a dead Ch'an Buddhist head monk from fourth century China. I don't know if he was ever truly dominant over me -- though it's hard to really know --, but he did manage to strongly sway my judgment for an hour or so on one day, and that led to a huge, financially disastrous mistake I made -- and ultimately it was all because the monk believed very strongly in poverty! It's not that he took over control, as far as I know, but it was more like having a parent who influences you at certain times.

He's still around, but I've managed to keep him separate from my heart now. Achieving that separation was strange. I did it at 10 a.m. one Saturday, after a good night's sleep. I then was so tired I had to go back to sleep. I woke up that evening because I had tickets to a theater performance. After that show, I returned to bed and slept till after midday the next day, and still felt a little tired. As you will know, such tiredness is common after one has broken away from some old identity one has had -- except that the duration and intensity of the tiredness was quite unusual.

[RunningDeer]

TraineeHuman: ...Actually, nearly everyone is controlled by a few sub-personalities they're usually not fully aware of -- plus even more so by several Hitchhikers lurking much deeper within...

Dawn: I disagree totally. I think 99+% of all the people I've ever met have 'foreigners' living inside them. However it took me a long time to see this because our society carefully trains us not to be aware of it.

To post or not to post? Shiver. Two bold statements: “99+% of all the people I've ever met have 'foreigners' living inside them” & “plus even more so by several Hitchhikers lurking much deeper within”.

RunningDeer: No, I don’t have hitch hikers or foreigners living inside.

Other(s): Yes, yes, you do.

RunningDeer: No, no, I don’t have hitch hikers or foreigners living inside.

Other (s): Yes, you do, “Lady in Denial”.

RunningDeer: No denial, I’m my own worst critic. I hunt and tear down whatever and whenever needs realignment. I’d be embarrassed to share how much time I spend at this game of hide and seek out, and dig deep for the last 64 years. I’m here to say, I gots no hitch hikers nor foreigners in my backpack...unless you count a couple of ex-husbands along the way. Oh, wait make that three, a boyfriend that definitely had frienies or fiends that travelled within. Phew, I was a quick study and I bolted from that one.

One whispers to the other: Yeah, denial....

RunningDeer: I heard that!

To post or not to post... cuz there’s no way to prove otherwise to one another. That’s not to say, I don’t believe your experiences. They are foreign to me.

I figure that I signed on for different challenges this time around. Which do not appear so big after reading accounts on this thread.

With gratitude and thanks. She heads back to her small, small world.....

RunningDeer <3

[Synchronicity]

I would just say there is a difference between the common influence we feel from picking up energy from others and carrying it around with us and being truly "possessed". And kids keep negative energy parents pass down when they don't deal with their stuff...we all carry inheritances of things from our ancestors. It doesn't always mean we are cursed, possessed, or that we have been taken over. I'm not arguing with anyone who has experienced negative things and I have had many awful things happen myself. I do see these things passed down for many generations sometimes and yes, it does affect all the offspring until someone deals with it, gets it released, and decides to heal. But just a thought...we can be in a room where people are really angry and absorb it if we are open. We can take it home and keep it in us, not a possessed being, but carrying someone's energy. We can blow up at people and feel depressed, angry, and miserable for months or years, but not be actually possessed by anyone/anything literally. It affects us, but isn't living as an entity in control of us and isn't that hard to remove usually.

I'm not categorizing anything anyone said as one thing or another and have no right to judge anyone's experience, but just saying that in general when negative experiences happen they aren't always a possession. Sometimes parts of us are just that...parts of us. We flame up over something we held in for years or get depressed when something happens that triggers another pain we haven't gotten to release. I am not saying that is what happened to anyone here, but just that it is very easy to pick up energy and be affected, but not be actually possessed. I've been just plain pissed after being around angry people and felt like slapping someone for nothing, but I wasn't possessed. For me personally I use several brushing off, centering, grounding, and other techniques that help me keep from collecting "hitchhiker" energy, and I seriously work on it as RunningDeer said so I don't pass things to anyone else or live with stuff that isn't mine.

Yes, I think everyone picks up energy to some extent, and some more than others, but if you know how to not keep it and any you have is released you will be pretty much okay on that comparatively. Some do really end up with some bad stuff and actually do need entities removed, but it usually milder and takes a bit of shamanic or other energy work to get relief. Just my experience....not speaking for everyone else.

[Delight]

I want to do something here that may seem "wrong". I want to disagree with the idea that Djinn are nefarious. They may be creatures who live but I never met one that i recall. I know nothing about them except what I have heard.

I challenge all these as just beliefs. The beliefs look aggressive and attacking towards Djinn and I am not interested. A story of the Djinn from religion or from mythology is grasping to make sense of forces we might encounter and do not understand. The drama says nothing about Djinn themselves or anything but that some things happen in our awareness that we define.

At this moment someone in the world is buying a ring that supposedly has a captive Djinn to control. The owner of the imprisoned Djinn seeks to gain power. I don't know how the whole story for the Djinn ring will seem to play out but I doubt it will be pretty?

To seek to control is to seek to be controlled in our own seeking of balance. We have vast imagination and subconscious memory that records and plays back to us. IMO, learning about ourselves and clearing trauma stored and intention for self integrity feels neutral in the "mix" of life.

IMO the blowback we perceive that seems like obsession or possession comes from us as medicine, a way to heal our memories. We hold patterns and use projection that makes an energy or an event look a certain way. When we can see it and respond consciously, we gain more of ourselves.

Managing our consciousness is not all or nothing. I have not had the same experiences that others have. I have my own and they can be traced IMO to my own intentions, my own unprocessed memory, my own unfelt emotion and MY SOUL path.

There is frequency and there is our perception and we change either and things change. David Icke for instance talks about a holographic matrix that was "hacked" into the synthetic "reality" we see as the collective civilization. A hack does not preclude a different understanding of frequencies and a different scaffold and many co-existing "stories" of our very own.

I call for believing a Divine matrix of secure ground. It is a benevolent gift of relationship to experience a life. It seems to have linear time and past and future that has an order so "everything does not happen all at once". It is definite that I expect I am safe and able to communicate with a larger than material context respectfully.

So what can harm me? Just me myself through ignorance and resistance.
I have the interest to feel deeply into being connected with truth and to feel my resistance lowered. IMO that resistance I have is needing challenge so the Universe provides.

We are self limited by the range of expectations we have as a habit of comfort. We set up resistance to keep things in place TOO LONG. However as hard as we try we cannot control everything. Discombobulated by life when ALWAYS the old ways of life eventually cease to work, we are opened up.

It can be joyous like having a baby, sad as in losing one's livelihood, grief as with the death of a mate...shock, conflict... This is life initiating for a larger soul purpose IMO. If we are cracked a bit, We have larger spaces for the light to get in.

There are "initiation" thresholds that WE AS SOULS ARE SEEKING TO RAISE. It seems that many systems including the spiritual ones recognize the need of support because crossing the thresholds of life initiations leaves us rather at a loss. The Deaths of our prized lifestyles, losses of relationship,any deep emotions triggered by life will create incoherence in what we think of as "normal".

Special moments that defy our conventional understanding lie on the border between two "states": the old and the unknown? The liminal does heighten conscious awareness of ourselves.

I think we might find inner turmoil (incoherence) and a lost feeling propel us to seek awakening. We may be guided to find out "what happened?", pray or meditate more looking into ourselves more and looking to God as we understand that to be more?

The "tendency" to deeply seek to make sense is actually possibly too little being in the void. Anxiety grabs onto another version of the Hack if we are not aware of the tendency. We just assume a different belief system.

One can deliberately insist that being in the unknown or void is just perfect. Again, if we feel lost, we cannot tolerate the anxiety. That is why we get help by doing meditation. It is learning to comfortable in the liminal, the void with no landmarks of "mental sense".

Expanded awareness is where the strange happens. Seeming miracles, odd sudden connections and even negative seeming incidents happen "out of the ordinary". I suspect that we bring up and out aspects of ourselves that we were once ignoring. There are themes to what is observed I am certain. Life can become like a sleeping dream at times as one is sorting out.

IMO information is available that we may want to convert too quickly to a new "coherent" framework of explanation because the strange is uncomfortable. I know this was long if read to the end.

[RunningDeer]

People attracted to this thread may enjoy this video?


Did Buddha’s teachings survive and thrive because he was more attractive or charismatic than most, or because he was a great teacher and a tireless advocate of the poor? Or— and here’s the core question I’ll explore in detail— was it because he was an enlightened being with profound insights into the nature of reality, and because he possessed super-normal abilities? We might ask the same questions about Jesus, Moses, Mohammed, Milarepa, or a host of other historically prominent figures associated with special illumination, wisdom, or grace. Did these people just sport great tans and know how to work a crowd, or did they understand something genuinely deep about the human condition, about consciousness, and about our capacities, that are not yet within the purview of science?


8eJkFh1-5Yw

A quick thank you, Delight, x's 2. I'm 35 minutes into the video. Enjoyable and interesting. Great speaker.

Also, I'm several chapters into the book you shared on the "Don't go into the Light" thread. "God I AM: From Tragic to Magic (http://www.amazon.com/God-Am-From-Tragic-Magic/dp/0646052551/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394945953&sr=8-1&keywords=Peter+O.+Erbe)," by Peter O. Erbe. It's one of those books that you read again for the first time.

RunningDeer <3

:focus:

[chocolate]

Yes, to post or not to post indeed...

After reading Dawn's last words, I realized that she indirectly somehow managed to change the title of the thread...
Which is quite okay with me, for I don't need to feel responsible to be of help any longer.

I will elaborate here a little, and please understand that I am only feeling love in my heart for anyone involved.

It is not a stretch of the imagination to realize that sex is probably the only activity in human life when we get to experience an exchange of energies both on a physical and on a mental/spiritual/emotional level ( hopefully ) .? And if you read my post a bit above where I speak naively how we might get some attacks either on the physical plane, or in the mental plane, you may 'see' that instead of being afraid of possession during a mediation or an energy work, we probably need to be very careful who do we allow in our intimate world, for exactly those reasons...

I think that is as far as I can go in this thread.

I realized right now that I feel a deep need for a hug, or for an energy exchange with another human body...

!

[greybeard]

I think that Eckhart Tolle description of pain body is more likely than a foreigner within.
Ego run riot in extreme fashion causes much pain for self and others..
I dont dispute possession but its probably rare.
Playing with oija boards is a very bad idea--there are forces from lower astral realms that do seek to benefit from causing pain for the unwary,

If a person is serious about enlightenment, then, the standard advice is to let go of all concepts and belief systems without exception..
Its not even necessary to work on Chi Prana Chakras--Kundalini rising takes care of all of that.
Its not even necessary to do more than Self enquiry and or neity neity ---not this not this.
Everything that is not Self is let go of.

True there are different paths but Ramana, Nasargadatta and now Mooji and others teach a direct pathless path which is very simple.
Non -duality
Find out who is having these thoughts---you are not the possessing agent---that is part of illusion.

Chris

[chocolate]

I am sure everyone here knows everything, but somehow I feel the need ( also ) to clarify a few terms ( which should have been the first thing to do in a thread such as this one ), for ( at least ) ease of communication:

~~~

Chi or Qi:

Qi, Wade-Giles romanization ch’i (Chinese: “breath,” or “vital energies”), in Chinese philosophy, the ethereal psycho-physical energies of which everything is composed. Early Daoist philosophers and alchemists regarded qi as a vital force inhering in the breath and bodily fluids and developed techniques to alter and control the movement of Qi within the body; their aim was to achieve physical longevity and spiritual power.

Neo-Confucian philosophers of the Song dynasty (960–1279 ce) regarded qi as emanating from the Great Ultimate (taiji) by way of li, the dynamic ordering pattern of the world. This tradition, whose ideas predominate in traditional Chinese thought, held that qi is manifest through yang (active) and yin (passive) modes as the Five Phases (wuxing; wood, metal, earth, water, and fire), which in turn are the basic processes defining the cosmos.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/109995/qi

In traditional Chinese culture, qi (also chi or ch'i) is an active principle forming part of any living thing. Qi is frequently translated as "natural energy", "life force", or "energy flow". Qi is the central underlying principle in traditional Chinese medicine and martial arts. The literal translation of "qi" is "breath", "air", or "gas".

Concepts similar to qi can be found in many cultures, for example, prana and cit in Hindu religion, mana in Hawaiian culture, lüng in Tibetan Buddhism, ruah in Hebrew culture, and Vital energy in Western philosophy. Some elements of qi can be understood in the term energy when used by writers and practitioners of various esoteric forms of spirituality and alternative medicine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi

~~~

Prana (प्राण, prāṇa) is the Sanskrit word for "life force"; in yoga, Oriental medicine, and martial arts, the term refers to a cosmic energy believed to come from the sun and connecting the elements of the universe. The universal principle of energy or force, responsible for the body's life, heat and maintenance, prana is the sum total of all energy that is manifest in the universe. This life energy, prana (प्राण) has been vividly invoked and described in Vedas. In Ayurveda, tantra and Tibetan medicine "praṇā vāyu" is the basic vāyu (wind, air) from which all the other vāyus arise.

It is analogous to qi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prana

~~~

Orgone

Orgone energy is a hypothetical universal life force originally proposed in the 1930s by Wilhelm Reich. In its final conception, developed by Reich's student Charles Kelly after Reich's death, Orgone was conceived as the anti-entropic principle of the universe, a creative substratum in all of nature comparable to Mesmer's animal magnetism, the Odic force of Carl Reichenbach and Henri Bergson's élan vital.[4] Orgone was seen as a massless, omnipresent substance, similar to luminiferous aether, but more closely associated with living energy than inert matter. It could coalesce to create organization on all scales, from the smallest microscopic units—called bions in orgone theory—to macroscopic structures like organisms, clouds, or even galaxies.
Reich's theories held that deficits or constrictions in bodily orgone were at the root of many diseases—including cancer—much as deficits or constrictions in the libido could produce neuroses in Freudian theory. He created the Orgone Institute to pursue research into orgone energy after he immigrated to the US, and used it to publish literature and distribute material relating to the topic for more than a decade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgone

~~~

Meditation

The term meditation refers to a broad variety of practices (much like the term sports) that includes techniques designed to promote relaxation, build internal energy or life force (qi, ki, prana, etc.) and develop compassion, love, patience, generosity and forgiveness. A particularly ambitious form of meditation aims at effortlessly sustained single-pointed concentration single-pointed analysis, meant to enable its practitioner to enjoy an indestructible sense of well-being while engaging in any life activity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditation

~~~

The jinn (also djinn or genies, Arabic: الجن‎ al-jinn, singular الجني al-jinnī) are spiritual creatures in Islam and Arabic folklore. They are mentioned in the Qur'an and other Islamic texts and inhabit an unseen world in dimensions beyond the visible universe of humans. Together, the jinn, humans and angels make up the three sapient creations of God.

The Qur'an mentions that the jinn are made of a smokeless and "scorching fire", but are also physical in nature, being able to interact physically with people and objects and likewise be acted upon. Like human beings, the jinn can also be good, evil, or neutrally benevolent and hence have free will like humans and unlike angels. The jinn are mentioned frequently in the Qurʾan, and the 72nd sura is titled Sūrat al-Jinn.

Jinn is a noun of the collective number in Arabic literally meaning "hidden from sight", and it derives from the Arabic root j-n-n (pronounced: jann/ junn جَنّ / جُنّ) meaning "to hide" or "be hidden". Other words derived from this root are majnūn 'mad' (literally, 'one whose intellect is hidden'), junūn 'madness', and janīn 'embryo, fetus' ('hidden inside the womb').

The word genie in English is derived from Latin genius, meant a sort of tutelary or guardian spirit thought to be assigned to each person at their birth. English borrowed the French descendant of this word, génie; its earliest written attestation in English, in 1655, is a plural spelled "genyes." The French translators of The Book of One Thousand and One Nights used génie as a translation of jinnī because it was similar to the Arabic word in sound and in meaning. This use was also adopted in English and has since become dominant.

In Arabic, the word jinn is in the collective number, translated in English as plural (e.g., "several genies"); jinnī is in the singulative number, used to refer to one individual, which is translated by the singular in English (e.g., "one genie"). Therefore, the word jinn in English writing is treated as a plural.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinn

~~~

I am wondering if I should also clarify what 'possession' means...

~~~

On a forum such as this one ( which I also happen to love for some strange reasons ), where everyone expects to find reliable and somewhat useful information, I think this thread fails to deliver.

Peace.

[chocolate]

DANGERS of CHI:
Jinn Possession in some Qi Gong (Chi Kung), Tai Chi, Martial Arts and Meditation Practices

"My Story"
An experience of Jinn Possession

It is my belief that those reading My Story will fall into one of the following camps:
(i) The reader will be greatly interested by the information either for personal reasons or mere curiosity

(ii) The reader will be experiencing a very similar problem themselves with no one to turn to

(iii) The reader will think I am a religious nut trying to propagate his ideology or is psychologically impaired in some manner

I can assure you the latter is definitely not the case, I am simply describing what happened to me and my experiences with no alteria intention other than to publicize the dangers of the esoteric internal arts. All the facts you are about to read are completely authentic.

My History of Martial Arts

I began learning martial arts over a decade ago, I was always very keen and took great interest not only in the physical sciences of the art but also the spiritual aspects. I studied many systems during this time including both Japanese and Chinese systems (both northern and southern systems as well as internal and external systems). All my instructors were of the highest calibre, including a Shaolin Monk from China, Grand Masters and national champions (and if I was to provide you with their names I don’t think anyone would dispute their skill and genuine martial arts lineage)

It was upon learning the internal system known as the Five Animal system of Spontaneous Chi Kung (Wu Qin Xi) which is an internal system which involved involuntary movements following the discharge of energy into the practitioner that my insight into the world of Martial Arts was to take a turn for the worse. Never before had I learnt a system which resulted in induced trance like and altered states of consciousness which ostensibly improved health and martial arts prowess. I soon began channeling the energy (Chi) and creating a mini mirco-cosmic orbits around myself. In addition my instructor would adeptly summon the energy (Chi) and transmit and project it into his students with stunning transitory results of improved health and increased physical strength. As the years passed on and I earned my instructors trust as I passed through all the Five Animal stages, he would boast that I was becoming a very powerful student and that soon I would soon be able to heal people myself, this made me even more eager to master this science. The principal of using martial arts as a fighting art was always sound, but using it for the betterment of others was an even greater incentive to learn, this was by no means a contradication but merely the flip side of the ability to kill and heal. And indeed I was aware of the body of scientific evidence which supported this claim. See Five Animal Frolics.

Beginning Symptoms

During this time I started to experience unusual sensations. This began with paralysis between the state of wakefulness and sleep ( --> there is quite simple explanation for this which is also very down to earth too. note by choc. ) as if something was constricting me just as I woke up in the morning, to feelings of vapours of energy around myself, particularly at night when my body was arrest and in a state of repose at night during sleep. Furthermore other students of this system also experienced the similar things but my instructor always eloquently countered any assertions of the supernatural by saying the Chi was simply opening up dormant chambers of the body & brain and that such feeling were completely natural. The instructor went as far as saying had we been practising such systems a century ago we would likely be convicted of practising magic & witchcraft, and that is only lately (i.e.19th century) that chi has been examined and studied scientifically, infact some ignorant Chinese & even non-Chinese scientists have suggested that it is no more than bio-electromagnetic energy (see Phd thesis "Qi & Biolectromagnetic Energy" York University). Certainly I was aware of the body of scientific evidence purporting the health benefits of Qigong & Chi (see The Qigong Institute). I thus as a gullible young student continued with my study of this system determined to master it always mentally finding an excuse to explain away these symptoms.

It was upon doing some prelimary research on the subject of Sleep paralysis which consists of a period of inability to perform voluntary movements either at sleep onset (called hypnogogic or predormital form) or upon awakening (called hypnopompic or postdormital form) that I began to discover that this was often associated with withcraft and magic throughout history, where the term the old Hag was frequently used and is still used to describe a demon, ghost, etc. that sits upon their victim's chest, causing paralysis and sometimes making it hard to breathe. I decided to investigate further and read a book bought by my brother titled "The Exorcist Tradition in Islam" By Dr. Bilal Philips University of Wales. In it the author describes these symptoms of sleep paralysis as the beginning signs of demonic/jinn possession. However still not adequately convinced of any sinister goings on I decided to continue my interests in the martial arts.

Visit by Abbot & Shaolin Monk and the Statue of Buddha

I also observed the statue of Buddha we had in our temple would become of more central importance in our classes. Our instructor (Sifu) would channel his energy into the enormous statue that occupied a large corner of the hall. The significance of the Buddha was to become further exemplified following a visit by the Abbot Shi Yon Xian into our temple, where upon he performed a ceremony which involved the statue of Buddha, he channeled an enormous amount of Chi into the Buddha (at which point many Sifus that were present in the audience reported feeling the powerful energy of the Abbot pass into the Buddha, some even reported seeing bright lights, and indeed this energy was to remain in the despicable idol. He was accompanied by a Shaolin Monk that our Sifu instructor had invited to teach, and much of the world media was present. The Abbot of the Shaolin Temple, aided by Shaolin Warrior Monk Shi Yan Tzi after blessing the Temple School's Buddha then consecrated the building as a branch of Shaolin Temple.

During this visit afer the ceremony, there was an amazing display of Wushu martial arts by the Shaolin monk, this involved a Shaolin form and four extraordinary displays of Chi Kung, the first being the Shaolin Monk taking powerful Gow Choi (hammer fist technique) strike by an experienced martial artist in the solar plexus with no noticeable side effects, followed by a similar strike this time with the aid of a tree trunk and four students ramming it into the stomach of the Monk. In the third display Monk Shi Yan Tzi took two volunteers from the audience and made them stripe off their shirts. He then positioned them in a sort of a bowing position, this he said was for their own safety. The Monk then summoned up his chi power. This took two or three minutes. Standing a good ten feet from the two volunteers, he reached out hes hand and made a slow downward clawing motion. When the volunteers turned around, each had clearly visible red claw marks down his back. A murmur of surprise went around the room and the Chinese camera crew moved in to take close-up shots o the phenomenon. The curious bowing posture the two volunteers took up was so that the Chi power projected by Monk Shi Yan Tzi wouldn't strike the volunteers square on. If it had, it would almost certainly have injured them. I was later to discover that Shaolin Monks don't normally perform this act of Red Sand Palm technique in public, the Abbot later chastised the younger Monk for performing this as the powerful Chi could have been captured by someone in the audience with ill intent. Even after this remarkable display of inner power, Monk Shi Yan Tzi's demonstartion wasnt over yet. Choosing from a pile of bricks, the Monk built a brigde with three bricks that he could use as a pillow. He then went through a short series of excercises to focus his Chi power in his head region. He laid his head down on his brick pillow and placed another column of three bricks on top of his head. He then asked our Sifu to brick another brick down as hard as he could onto the brick column. Upon doing this incredibly all three bricks on top of the monks head and the brick beneath forming the span of the bridge shattered. To tumutuous applause, the Monk bounced to his feet, smiling and waving and completely unharmed by the massive blow delivered. It was a spectaculor display of the power of Chi witnissed first hand by me and many others including the world media. In awe of Monk Shi Yan Tzi's skill I was to remain with him for several years.

When the Abbot went back to China I observed several notable changes in our temple, Sifu was now no longer summing chi his normal way but rather now going up to the Buddha to attract/summon Chi (this was of coarse because the Abbot had passed his very powerful Chi into it) and students too were approaching the Buddha to get charged up (this was a term used to denote the initialization into the Five Animal state). I too observed when in the Gong state (Five Animal Frolics) would some how subconsciously be me drawn unexplainably to the Buddha for no discernable reason. The statue of Buddha was suddenly becoming the nexus of the Temple School and the roots of idolatry were taking fold. (see Buddhism: An Idolatrous Religion)

[...]

Cases of Possession

I have since seen many cases of possession, possession involving jinns falling in love with girls, possession involving acts of magic performed on individuals, possession whereby jinns harass or haunt individuals/buildings etc. But certainly my case was unlike most of the others the Sheikh was dealing with because I had directly invoked these creatures and inadvertently sought their assistance via (i)My instructor channeling the energy into me (ii)Capturing chi from outside my body (iii) Going into deep meditative trances allowing the chi to take control of my body like I was in an intoxicated state taking on the characteristics of animals see Wu Qin Xi five animal frolics (iv) Through various chants and (v) Performance of certain forms/kata with acts of magic embedded with in without even knowing it. What is also most disturbing is that the practice of my art involved the accumulation of these jinns inside me or as my instructor would say the cultivation of chi which could take many years to achieve, which is why they often say that to practice the external arts could take a few years but to practise the internal art a decade i.e. the more chi I had the more adept at the internal arts I became. Most instances of possession only involve a hand full of jinns?, however internal arts by definition require the individual to store up or hoard their chi. That is why practising such systems can be so fatal to the practitioner and act of exorcism can be considerably longer than otherwise.

http://www.thejinn.net/chi_jinn_my_story.htm

This is one of the initial articles mentioned in the OP.

Not only it is full of spelling mistakes and some bizzare allegations and references, but it makes one believe much more unbelievable 'truths' than one's natural common sense normally would.

And a small note from me personally, no offence to anyone or anything whatsoever.

It seems as quite the escapism for someone to believe in jinn possession, instead of making sure one gets to step soundly on the Earth and walk properly.
(see RunningDeer's post too http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?69395-Meditation-and-any-work-with-Chi-or-Prana-may-invite-possession-by-Jinn&p=809798&viewfull=1#post809798)

~~~

Edited to add:

I know for a fact many of us, writing on the forum, have gone through some hard time of suffering personal attacks or interference in one way or another. I myself am still under that kind of influence, or was not very long ago.
But instead of looking everywhere else ( with or without any related threads on any forum ) for the answers, I feel we need to look a bit more closely at what is happening in our own personal lives.

Some 'things' or phenomena, rather more complex in nature than any religious or scientific teaching can explain at present, will become more clear further down the line.
That is why we are still here.

[panopticon]

For those who may be interested the reference in the 'My Story' passage to a text called 'Buddhism: An Idolatrous Religion'. It can be found in the writings of Adnan Oktar (pseudonym Harun Yahya). The text is full of errors on basic Buddhist philosophy and full of quotes from the Koran.

It's available here if anyone's interested:
http://www.harunyahya.com/en/Books/732/islam-and-buddhism/chapter/1688

Hope this was useful to someone.

-- Pan

[panopticon]

On a forum such as this one (which I also happen to love for some strange reasons ), where everyone expects to find reliable and somewhat useful information, I think this thread fails to deliver.


Why?

-- Pan

[TraineeHuman]

To post or not to post? Shiver. ..
RunningDeer: No, I don’t have hitch hikers or foreigners living inside.

Other(s): Yes, yes, you do.

RunningDeer: No, no, I don’t have hitch hikers or foreigners living inside.

Other (s): Yes, you do, “Lady in Denial”.

RunningDeer: No denial, I’m my own worst critic. I hunt and tear down whatever and whenever needs realignment. I’d be embarrassed to share how much time I spend at this game of hide and seek out, and dig deep for the last 64 years. I’m here to say, I gots no hitch hikers nor foreigners in my backpack...unless you count a couple of ex-husbands along the way. Oh, wait make that three, a boyfriend that definitely had frienies or fiends that travelled within. Phew, I was a quick study and I bolted from that one.

One whispers to the other: Yeah, denial....

... She heads back to her small, small world.....


Paula, the main thing I get from your post is that you're being ruthless about honesty -- about looking at the truth about who you are. And feeling and ferreting out everything/one that you're not. That's great to hear. That's what everyone should be doing, in a truly sane society. Everyone should continually be spending hours, if necessary, intensely asking themselves: "What is the truth about me?" Surely, to do anything less is a great foolishness -- to be, well, honest. Such a great love of honesty, such a ruthless, seemingly obsessive dedication to finding out the truth as far as you can, particularly about you -- what's "good" and what's "bad", what's weak or strong -- it's just about all you need, all anyone needs. That's the still point in the confusion and chaos of this insane and deceptive world. It's such a life saver. Yes, liberation does very much involve not clinging -- with the exception of clinging to honesty, and letting it shape you.

You talk of your "small, small world", but such a dedication to Truth will surely take you very far. Maybe you don't feel you have experience of such things (yet), but imagine, if you like, a world where there's only Truth and Consciousness of Truth. I promise you such a world certainly, really exists. It's very close to Source, to the ultimate. That world is hardly boring. in fact, no such thing as "boring" exists there, or makes any sense there. I believe some of the lower levels of this world include, for instance, the seeds of all new life, of all new ideas, all inspirations, and so on. So it ain't boring. It's dynamic, it's a party. And I've no doubt your dedication to Truth will somehow eventually get you there, Paula. Please don't change a thing -- well, except to keep making yourself truer and freer.

I'd say it doesn't really matter so much whether you've gotten rid of or discovered all your (potential) Hitchhikers or whatever. It's the process that counts. Whatever needs to be revealed further will come to light when the time is right. Didn't mean to make that rhyme. Must be one of my little poetry-writing or songwriting identities putting in its two cents.

Not a whole lot more is needed in addition to the practice of such honesty. I guess maybe also, if possible, just beautifully flowing in, or with, your consciousness, more and more and more. That'll come anyway if it's not there yet, because at some point Truth and Consciousness become the same, they become one. All conceptual distinctions ultimately collapse and dissolve at that point. And they get replaced by the underlying sameness, which, I have to say, is just beautiful beyond belief. -- And I absolutely, definitely did not get any of that from some Djinn or guide etc.

And of course, Truth is such a perfect antidote to fear, and to false evidence appearing real.

[chocolate]

On a forum such as this one (which I also happen to love for some strange reasons ), where everyone expects to find reliable and somewhat useful information, I think this thread fails to deliver.


Why?

-- Pan

Not so long ago.

But it changed for the better, I think. :)

Regarding (Paula) RunninDeer and her post ( Hi :) !), I think it was the best I had read from the point of view of sanity around here. ( She also managed to put humor in it all, contrary to my sometimes very matter-of-fact statements )

I myself can believe in everything and everyone, being an air creature and so on, but always up to a point. That is why when I get to read some (no-)sense statements in titles of threads, all my stable and very balanced personality gets in a warrior mode. Sorry Dawn, I know you mean well, and you are also searching, but perhaps do that first (the searching part) and bring it on here when you know it has gone through some serious ... what the English for that... discernment, I think. The article I quoted is just full of nonsense. And I am not ever a true religious/spiritual/enlightened/etc. scholar, neither is my English all that good.

~~~

I guess that is the extend I needed to vent off on this subject.

I apologize if I offended anyone, but sometimes ... things...happen.
And also thanks for the level of common sense, I did notice it, too.

Peace!
:)

[panopticon]

I'm off ta bed but I'd like to thank everyone for providing me with the motivation to have a look into the Islamic Jinn tradition.

It's really very interesting and I found some texts that give what seems to be quite good definitions of where the various sorts of Jinn (yeah, there's more than one type) can be found and to some extent what they are. I never knew that the tradition is that Iblees (Shaytaan/Satan) was a Jinn and that was why he was able to ignore Allah's will and not kneel like all the Angels did. Fascinating.

Any ways one book I came across was 'The Jinn And Human Sickness' available for free download at archive.org:
https://archive.org/details/TheJinnAndHumanSickness

I'm off to look into the dark places. Night all. :)

-- Pan

[RunningDeer]

To post or not to post? Shiver. ..
RunningDeer: No, I don’t have hitch hikers or foreigners living inside.

Other(s): Yes, yes, you do.

RunningDeer: No, no, I don’t have hitch hikers or foreigners living inside.

Other (s): Yes, you do, “Lady in Denial”.

RunningDeer: No denial, I’m my own worst critic. I hunt and tear down whatever and whenever needs realignment. I’d be embarrassed to share how much time I spend at this game of hide and seek out, and dig deep for the last 64 years. I’m here to say, I gots no hitch hikers nor foreigners in my backpack...unless you count a couple of ex-husbands along the way. Oh, wait make that three, a boyfriend that definitely had frienies or fiends that travelled within. Phew, I was a quick study and I bolted from that one.

One whispers to the other: Yeah, denial....

... She heads back to her small, small world.....


Paula, the main thing I get from your post is that you're being ruthless about honesty -- about looking at the truth about who you are. And feeling and ferreting out everything/one that you're not. That's great to hear. That's what everyone should be doing, in a truly sane society. Everyone should continually be spending hours, if necessary, intensely asking themselves: "What is the truth about me?" Surely, to do anything less is a great foolishness -- to be, well, honest. Such a great love of honesty, such a ruthless, seemingly obsessive dedication to finding out the truth as far as you can, particularly about you -- what's "good" and what's "bad", what's weak or strong -- it's just about all you need, all anyone needs. That's the still point in the confusion and chaos of this insane and deceptive world. It's such a life saver. Yes, liberation does very much involve not clinging -- with the exception of clinging to honesty, and letting it shape you.

You talk of your "small, small world", but such a dedication to Truth will surely take you very far. Maybe you don't feel you have experience of such things (yet), but imagine, if you like, a world where there's only Truth and Consciousness of Truth. I promise you such a world certainly, really exists. It's very close to Source, to the ultimate. That world is hardly boring. in fact, no such thing as "boring" exists there, or makes any sense there. I believe some of the lower levels of this world include, for instance, the seeds of all new life, of all new ideas, all inspirations, and so on. So it ain't boring. It's dynamic, it's a party. And I've no doubt your dedication to Truth will somehow eventually get you there, Paula. Please don't change a thing -- well, except to keep making yourself truer and freer.

I'd say it doesn't really matter so much whether you've gotten rid of or discovered all your (potential) Hitchhikers or whatever. It's the process that counts. Whatever needs to be revealed further will come to light when the time is right. Didn't mean to make that rhyme. Must be one of my little poetry-writing or songwriting identities putting in its two cents.

Not a whole lot more is needed in addition to the practice of such honesty. I guess maybe also, if possible, just beautifully flowing in, or with, your consciousness, more and more and more. That'll come anyway if it's not there yet, because at some point Truth and Consciousness become the same, they become one. All conceptual distinctions ultimately collapse and dissolve at that point. And they get replaced by the underlying sameness, which, I have to say, is just beautiful beyond belief. -- And I absolutely, definitely did not get any of that from some Djinn or guide etc.

And of course, Truth is such a perfect antidote to fear, and to false evidence appearing real.

Powerful post, TraineeHuman. Thank you.

Small, small world is a relative space depending on which nano second you catch me in. And too...not because I’ve got nano-bots, ants, or elves controlling me from within.

Small, small world by comparison to others’ OBE, ET’s adventures, and the like. (Though, I’ve racked up some frequent flyers miles of my own.)

Small, small world based on the more I learn, the less I know. “Who cares?” I remind myself. Journey onward. And don’t forget to play.

The most important tool, and I’ve known this from a young age, has been to ‘feel the fear and do it anyway’. It opened doors to powerful places from the heart and beyond to experience the larger. I’ve participated in two outward bound experiences, walked on fire, and monthly weekend group encounters over a course of a year and a half, to name a few...all to feel the fear and do it anyway. See through the illusion of straight-jacket restriction and control.

I’ve learned it’s not about the far and exotic journeys, but it’s those nano seconds that hold me captive and the recognition to deal with them head on, here and now. So my promise is to leap. Most often I do. I land square in the small, (but shhhhh), the kicker is that it’s really, really big both inside and out.

RunningDeer <3

[RunningDeer]

Thoughts on Jinn...

Yes, based on family gatherings, and how as soon as particular individual arrives the atmosphere goes from light to shades of gray to dark at warp speed. You can almost smell the change. Toss in the alcohol, that’s when my no-clock-world lifestyle goes into loud tick-tock, drip-drip-drip torture.

Okay, that may be a tad over stated. But, yes, at times I do ‘see’ in some folks an energetic Jinn-blob that wants to gobble up the unaware that surrounds.

To clarify, for me, sweeping statements are like nails across a chalkboard: 99+% of all the people I've ever met have 'foreigners' living inside them” & “plus even more so by several Hitchhikers lurking much deeper within”.

Why? Because we’re all on our custom-made paths. Too, our developing 5D extra-senses of what we experience are perceived differently by each of us. I see what I see, but how can you know? I see red, but you call it blue. How can we know?

Yes, through communication and sharing, but for me, it seems these day, language is more limiting than not. One possibility is that now more than ever, we are experiencing on multi-levels. And if someone comes along and happens to rest on a level that’s not in alignment with the intent it was shared...it goes splat.

In closing, Dawn, TraineeHuman and anyone else, I may have over reacted and taken a few phrases out of context from some powerful posts. So in case it's needed, here's to hugs all around and a clean slate. http://www.picgifs.com/smileys/smileys-and-emoticons/hugs/smileys-hugs-765537.gif

Hummm…this was suppose to be a post about "Thoughts on Jinn".

RunningDeer <3

[minkton]

As I understand it, if you are inhabited by a djinn, your capacity for feeling human emotion dimishes. This makes ideas of utilising love as a positive force quite acadenic.

The 'driving out ' of such guests that diminish the host has to be the key point.

How to make ourselves an undesirable environment for parasites. Fasting is something that makes them bored with us, for example.

[Catsquotl]

I am sure everyone here knows everything, but somehow I feel the need ( also ) to clarify a few terms ( which should have been the first thing to do in a thread such as this one ), for ( at least ) ease of communication:

~~~

Chi or Qi:

Qi, Wade-Giles romanization ch’i (Chinese: “breath,” or “vital energies”), in Chinese philosophy, the ethereal psycho-physical energies of which everything is composed. Early Daoist philosophers and alchemists regarded qi as a vital force inhering in the breath and bodily fluids and developed techniques to alter and control the movement of Qi within the body; their aim was to achieve physical longevity and spiritual power.

Neo-Confucian philosophers of the Song dynasty (960–1279 ce) regarded qi as emanating from the Great Ultimate (taiji) by way of li, the dynamic ordering pattern of the world. This tradition, whose ideas predominate in traditional Chinese thought, held that qi is manifest through yang (active) and yin (passive) modes as the Five Phases (wuxing; wood, metal, earth, water, and fire), which in turn are the basic processes defining the cosmos.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/109995/qi

In traditional Chinese culture, qi (also chi or ch'i) is an active principle forming part of any living thing. Qi is frequently translated as "natural energy", "life force", or "energy flow". Qi is the central underlying principle in traditional Chinese medicine and martial arts. The literal translation of "qi" is "breath", "air", or "gas".

Concepts similar to qi can be found in many cultures, for example, prana and cit in Hindu religion, mana in Hawaiian culture, lüng in Tibetan Buddhism, ruah in Hebrew culture, and Vital energy in Western philosophy. Some elements of qi can be understood in the term energy when used by writers and practitioners of various esoteric forms of spirituality and alternative medicine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi

Peace.

In my studies if chinese medicine Qi is translated as "basic stuff" Like a building block. In my view it is hyped up to mean more than it actualy is. The character for Qi depicts the steam comming of boiling rice. However Qi is the pot the rice is boiling in, it is the rice, the water and the steam. Even the fire that burns to make the water boil. All in different states of aggregation. The 5 phases are merely a way to catagorise chi in different manifestations.

I feel that chi is the most responsive of the 5 basic substances. Thats why it is the thing that you would go to as a first resort for manipulating/change your energy flow. The other 4 basic substances will follow more slowly to the changes in your chi.

I think that Jinn from this idea will try to manipulate your chi as it is the most responsive, but to say that doing chi or energy work invites them to play with you is the same that walking down the streats with a dollar in your pocket will attract muggers.
You could be mugged. You could also just have a pleasant stroll and buy a cup of coffe at that coffeestand in the park.

With Love
Eelco

[TraineeHuman]

chocolate, it's been my experience and understanding from a youngish age that trance is dangerous, and I believe it has no place in true spirituality. You can draw a distinction between "concentration meditation" and "awareness meditation". Although awareness meditation uses concentration, particularly in the beginner-like stages, at a certain point of intensity of concentration, too much concentration interferes with one's ability to be open enough to be fully aware of whatever may be. That, for me, is the exact point where it turns into trance. I've always liked Zen meditation because it's essentially (or mostly, or in its purest form) just the awareness style of meditation, "straight". I also always, always meditated with my eyes half-open (or even fully open) up until my late forties -- again, because I instinctively knew without doubt that any sort of trance was dangerous, at least potentially. It's also one reason why I've always been suspicious of the use of any sort of drugs or props -- even chanting. If you meditate with your eyes half-open and stay 100% alert, you'll be absorbed solely into your "own" greater and greater Self, and not in an egoic way either. Awareness means being there. It's just a matter of raising the "level" of "there" higher and higher and wider and wider.

If I understand correctly, of course trance of any kind strongly invites certain kinds of very partial possession or worse, for reasons which a number of posters have already explained in considerable detail here. It's a big red flag that you wave in case they haven't noticed you've set aside your defences -- your natural protection. Why give up your deeper "I", ever? As we know, ultimately that is Source itself. And yet, as I understand it, trance is precisely such a giving up. Of course trance of any kind will at least open you to psychic parasites.

Regarding transmission of chi, I do love to receive the essence behind the chi a true master of it is transmitting. I've learnt how to gobble up every last tidbit. If I'd been there, chocolate, when that Shaolin master was transmitting, they wouldn't need to put it into a statue, because I'd take it all, and not apologize. Be assured, I would have diverted it from the statue while he was transmitting, if he tried to put it into a statue while I was around. It's taken me a very long time indeed to master how to do that. But I'd have to admit that a considerable deal of my own liberation has come from absorbing every drop that great masters of enlightenment or of chi had in them to offer others. In a way it's quite embarrassing to admit that, because on this Forum and its predecessors I've always been so loud in saying: "Don't follow any teacher. Be your own light." OK, as far as great masters who transmit profound chi or whatever it is, I've been a hypocrite in not owning up to how much I'm indebted to the Light I received from such (male and female) masters.

And again, at the risk of being very boringly repetitious, I'm absolutely shocked to hear that anyone believes any kind of spiritual practice that involves going into a trance of any kind is valid or good -- for reasons connected to what Dawn was trying to warn about in her OP. Always be here now. Don't be an airhead.

[minkton]

I saw in. Bill's thread about cancer the voodoo curse, that Dawn found a healer, who has made quite an impact.

Let's hope it's truly significant and permanent.

[Delight]

I'm absolutely shocked to hear that anyone believes any kind of spiritual practice that involves going into a trance of any kind is valid or good -- for reasons connected to what Dawn was trying to warn about in her OP. Always be here now. Don't be an airhead.

I remember reading Andrew Weil years ago whose idea is seeking altered states of consciousness (ACS) is a natural impulse for humans. We can see that inclination when children twirl around until so dizzy they fall down happily. Birds eat berries that make them drunk. So there is a seeming natural inclination to be in an altered state that transcends just humans?

Again Andrew Weil has proposed that we would do better with effects that are clear, not muddy and appropriate to feel well. So for example, one can achieve the "high" of alcohol (just a glass of wine in a happy setting) or the "low" of a sad deep drunk. The point is that one can expect some common elements about alcohol but each person is different. Some cannot tolerate ANY and some seem to tolerate mass quantities.

Is it "wrong" to enter trance 100%? I think it is the setting, the person and the intention that determines the appropriate. Motivation is important and history, expectations and training.

In mediation, one also has to look at the person doing meditation. I can't say I am sure but I suspect still that the negative AND positive effects of meditations and trance are self generated by our own conditions and we must respect that we have these preexisting states!!!

On one level, it makes the same sense to say avoid all trance states (and they can happen when driving even) as it makes sense to avoid sleep where we lose consciousness? These are states of more and less conscious awareness that have brain EEG correlates....

I think we SHOULD learn more about how this works YES!!!

One of the outcomes of this thread is that it stimulates me to look deeper. It is valuable to look at the adverse effects meditators and people entering altered states of consciousness may experience.

I STILL feel that nothing is "out there" except mind itself with thought forms we take on and believe. Also we do have an energy system that can get out of balance. I may be mistaken in my understanding.

Life events we experience as trauma can be terrible and these impressions hurt us. People take on ACS in the midst of unresolved trauma and imbalanced energy states and they have experiences that are not helpful.

Look at the way we and those we know in "regular states" interpret and behave to imagine ACS experiences with the same "problems" underlying......

I looked and found an excellent thesis with a wealth of information "Meditation-Related Psychosis from the Buddhist Perspective".


Effects of Meditation: Psychological Literature.

While literature on beneficial effects of meditation involves much research data (Shapiro 1982; West, 1987), literature on adverse effects is largely anecdotal, and no one has factored out effects of other variables such as the aloneness, silence, and reduced food and sleep that often accompany intensive meditation. Spontaneous muscular-skeletal movement, proprioceptive sensations, and intense emotional states (known as “unstressing” in TM literature) often occur and can take extreme forms during extended meditation sessions. These may relate to release of past physiological and emotional stresses stored in the mind and body (Coleman, 1971). Severe anxiety, depression, depersonalization, derealization, panic, and emergence of overwhelming repressed material sometimes occur, especially in people with traumatic backgrounds and longstanding emotional problems (Carrington, 1977; Epstein & Lieff, 1986). Extreme dysfunction, such as psychosis, is rare, but does happen, especially during intensive meditation in people who have a history of psychosis (“A forum,” 1988; Kornfield, 1989; Walsh & Roche, 1979). A reoccurrence of psychosis may be part of practice because what one fears most tends to emerge in practice (Kornfield, 1989). Also, serious pathology may emerge when the will for practice is so strong that it overrides usual defense mechanisms (“A Forum,” 1988). This idea is supported by Glueck and Stroebel (1975), who assessed the effect of TM on psychiatric inpatients and found that psychotic episodes were precipitated in Dire ho, against instructions, meditated more than twice a day for longer periods than the usual 20 minutes. Also, Sangharak****a (1980) notes that a Burmese method of respiration-mindfulness led to “extreme nervous tension and a schizoid state” in a number of people and hospitalization for some (p. xv). (This method may resemble the Sunlun practice, which involves intense effort, heavy breathing, concentration on pain, and sitting motionless for 2-3 hours. See Kornfield (1977) for a description of this practice.)

While extremely dysfunctional states are rare, ASC are common (Kornfield, 1979) and “primary process” thinking tends to increase in beginning phases of meditation (Brown & Engler, 1986; From, 1977). This cognitive mode involves more images, “drive” (sexual/aggressive) content, and preverbal and nonverbal processes than does “secondary process’ thinking, which is verbal and oriented to reality testing, goals, logic, and abstraction. Brown and Engler (1986) suggest that many Westerners may do a form of self-exploratory therapy when they become aware of the contents of their mind and consequently fail to develop the concentration and mindfulness necessary for formal meditation. Kornfield (1979) found chat many Westerners in. initial stages of intensive Vipassana meditation experienced unusual mental and physical phenomena, such as spontaneous movement, altered body-image perceptions, altered visual perceptions, powerful imagery, vivid dreams, intense feelings, and mood swings. These phenomena were uncommon in control subjects who received the instructions and teaching of the experimental group, but who meditated much less (1-2 hours/day vs. 12-15) and were not in a disciplined, silent retreat milieu. Concentration appeared to be a major factor in increasing the frequency and duration of these altered states.

Kornfield (1979) notes that traditional Western psychology considers these phenomena pathological rather than normal responses to meditation in predominantly healthy individuals. Respect for such phenomena as spiritual experiences may be growing, however (Chandler, Holden, & Kolander, 1992). Sourcebooks, such as Bragdon’s (1988), and support networks, such as the Spiritual Emergence Network, have been developed to aid people in “spiritual emergence.” The Grofs (1986, 1990) and Lukoff (1985) highlight the need to differentiate pathology from spiritual experiences and crises that can be transformative. They offer schemata of differential diagnosis and propose treatment alternatives to medication when certain criteria are met, such as lack of organicity, adequate pre-episode functioning, and abilities to relate, cooperate, work intrapsychically, maintain physical health, and refrain from acting upon impulses. This spiritual emergence movement has impacted diagnostic criteria in the forthcoming DSM—IV, the main diagnostic manual used by mental health professionals (“Diagnosing,” 1992).

Differentiation of spiritual and psychotic! psychosis proneness.

If phenomena are similar in spiritual-mystical and psychotic states, what makes these states different and who is prone to psychosis? Chapman and Chapman (1980) take an empirical approach to these questions. They suggest that these experiences fall on a continuum as to degree of deviancy. Factors that make for less deviancy are: incomplete belief in the experience; presence of cultural support for the experience; brevity; facilitation by hypnogogic or hypnopompic states; the subject talking about past rather than present experience; other factors that make the experience seem closer to normal. They recognize that fairly well-functioning people can have occasional psychotic or psychotic-like experiences, so factors such as level of stress and functioning are also considered in assessing someone’s stability. As to the issue of proneness, Chapman, Chapman, and Raulin (1976, 1978) and Eckbad and Chapman (1983) developed paper-and-pencil tests to measure several variables that purportedly are precursors of schizophrenia such as magical ideation, anhedonia (defect in experience of pleasure) and perceptual aberration (distortion in perception of body and other objects). Research on these tests’ validity has mostly involved undergraduates (Lenzenweger & Loranger, 1989). L. Chapman (personal communication, August 13, 1993) believes that the Perceptual Aberration and Magical Ideation scales could be useful screening tests for meditators if they are answered in terms of non- meditative states of consciousness.

A more theoretical approach has been taken by a number of authors who are familiar with Buddhism as well as psychodynamic, developmental, and transpersonal psychology. Wilber (1986) proposes a hierarchical “spectrum” model of development that involves “prepersonal,” “personal,” and “transpersonal” stages. These stages involve different kinds of personality organization and pathology. The prepersonal stages involve psychotic, borderline (between psychotic and neurotic), and neurotic organization and pathology. Wilber (1986) and Engler (1986; Nisker, 1988) suggest that “uncovering” therapy and meditation can be harmful to people with psychotic or borderline organization. The recommended intervention for psychotic organization, which may involve schizophrenia and bipolar (manic—depressive) diagnoses, is medication, external structure, and supportive therapy. The borderline level includes characterological or personality disorders, including the narcissistic and borderline disorders, which supposedly stem from arrest in developing a separated-individuated “self” due to constitutional factors and failures in parental empathy and responsiveness to needs. They can involve psychosis at times of stress and require ego and self “structure-building” rather than uncovering therapy or meditation. To undergo “derepressive” meditation practices, such people need a healthier sense of self and more “ego strength,” including abilities to observe self, tolerate intense emotional states, and experience feelings without acting on them. For people with neurotic organization, however, meditation can be helpful because its derepressive effect enables “regression in service of the ego.” In other words, neurotic repression is overcome and unconscious material can be made conscious and integrated.

Epstein (1986, 1998, 1989, 1990), in contrast to the above authors, believes that meditation can help transform borderline and narcissistic pathology. At deeper levels of practice, concentration and insight practices enable knowledge of the insubstantiality of selfhood and balances that knowledge with calmness.. Thereby, a transcendence of narcissism is promoted. He does not recommend advanced insight practice for people at a borderline level of organization, however, because it involves relinquishing fundamental beliefs about self and world and experiencing terrifying upsurges of regressive material. For such people, he recommends preliminary concentrative and mindfulness practices that promote ego development through stabilizing emotions and gaining an observing stance and more cohesive sense of experience. Epstein (1993) also recommends that people continue taking prescribed medication while meditating. (See also Epstein & Lieff, 1986.)

http://downthecrookedpath-meditation-gurus.blogspot.com/2012/03/meditation-related-psychosis-from.html

[Synchronicity]

chocolate, it's been my experience and understanding from a youngish age that trance is dangerous, and I believe it has no place in true spirituality. You can draw a distinction between "concentration meditation" and "awareness meditation". Although awareness meditation uses concentration, particularly in the beginner-like stages, at a certain point of intensity of concentration, too much concentration interferes with one's ability to be open enough to be fully aware of whatever may be. That, for me, is the exact point where it turns into trance. I've always liked Zen meditation because it's essentially (or mostly, or in its purest form) just the awareness style of meditation, "straight". I also always, always meditated with my eyes half-open (or even fully open) up until my late forties -- again, because I instinctively knew without doubt that any sort of trance was dangerous, at least potentially. It's also one reason why I've always been suspicious of the use of any sort of drugs or props -- even chanting. If you meditate with your eyes half-open and stay 100% alert, you'll be absorbed solely into your "own" greater and greater Self, and not in an egoic way either. Awareness means being there. It's just a matter of raising the "level" of "there" higher and higher and wider and wider.

If I understand correctly, of course trance of any kind strongly invites certain kinds of very partial possession or worse, for reasons which a number of posters have already explained in considerable detail here. It's a big red flag that you wave in case they haven't noticed you've set aside your defences -- your natural protection. Why give up your deeper "I", ever? As we know, ultimately that is Source itself. And yet, as I understand it, trance is precisely such a giving up. Of course trance of any kind will at least open you to psychic parasites.

Regarding transmission of chi, I do love to receive the essence behind the chi a true master of it is transmitting. I've learnt how to gobble up every last tidbit. If I'd been there, chocolate, when that Shaolin master was transmitting, they wouldn't need to put it into a statue, because I'd take it all, and not apologize. Be assured, I would have diverted it from the statue while he was transmitting, if he tried to put it into a statue while I was around. It's taken me a very long time indeed to master how to do that. But I'd have to admit that a considerable deal of my own liberation has come from absorbing every drop that great masters of enlightenment or of chi had in them to offer others. In a way it's quite embarrassing to admit that, because on this Forum and its predecessors I've always been so loud in saying: "Don't follow any teacher. Be your own light." OK, as far as great masters who transmit profound chi or whatever it is, I've been a hypocrite in not owning up to how much I'm indebted to the Light I received from such (male and female) masters.

And again, at the risk of being very boringly repetitious, I'm absolutely shocked to hear that anyone believes any kind of spiritual practice that involves going into a trance of any kind is valid or good -- for reasons connected to what Dawn was trying to warn about in her OP. Always be here now. Don't be an airhead.

Except that many people really have found peace and really are healthier, happier, and more healed from work that involves altered consciousness. Saying no way on any of it makes no sense to me. I have seen amazing results and I have seen people hurt from not taking precautions or working with someone who does know risks and how to be safe. I guess once again, to each his own ideas and practices. :)

Oh, and edited to add that part of knowing what technique is correct for a particular person is knowing who not to discuss guides or encourage to alter consciousness. If someone has trouble with reality already (whatever reality is), obviously telling them to meditate and see what their internal voices are telling them isn't the best way to approach issues.

[TraineeHuman]

I'm afraid people should seriously consider the possibility that just maybe I'm very aware of pretty much everything involved in their points of view as expressed regarding trance so far, but that perhaps they may not even have begun to become aware of some elements and some of the knowledge in my point of view that lead me to say that all trance is potentially dangerous.

There's a huge difference between driving in a trance -- which can be fatally dangerous -- and driving with a dual consciousness, where one is actually more aware (and less asleep, less in the "normal" "trance"), where one will often actually be a safer driver.

In the OBEs... thread, I've included some basic suggestions/instructions regarding how everyone should create the appropriate protection before anytime they go to sleep. If I ever sleep away from home, I spend some time cleaning up the energies in the location where I'll sleep, because I'm aware enough in that field to know what's advisable.

[Synchronicity]

I'm afraid people should seriously consider the possibility that just maybe I'm very aware of pretty much everything involved in their points of view as expressed regarding trance so far, but that perhaps they may not even have begun to become aware of some elements and some of the knowledge in my point of view that lead me to say that all trance is potentially dangerous.

There's a huge difference between driving in a trance -- which can be fatally dangerous -- and driving with a dual consciousness, where one is actually more aware (and less asleep, less in the "normal" "trance"), where one will often actually be a safer driver.

In the OBEs... thread, I've included some basic suggestions/instructions regarding how everyone should create the appropriate protection before anytime they go to sleep. If I ever sleep away from home, I spend some time cleaning up the energies in the location where I'll sleep, because I'm aware enough in that field to know what's advisable.

The bolded part...yes, I can see that it is possible since we hopefully all grow and learn, and everything in life is potentially dangerous in some way. My question is if you can see that it might be possible that your view is your view and possibly not absolute either. Because you see a dark shape somewhere and someone else doesn't, it doesn't mean either of you are necessarily right. Maybe one is there and maybe it isn't, or maybe it is only there for one of you and really isn't there for the other. Your experience is your foundation for your beliefs just as everyone's are, and everyone else's is as just as much the foundation of theirs.

My point is that while you grew into the idea that this is a certain way and you are past where others might be, others may feel they have seen where you are and grown past it as well. I'm not saying who is right or wrong and have no interest in doing so, but just that anyone who is changing and growing, learning, and experiencing situations goes through times when something is horrible, but then not so bad, and maybe eventually is a life choice that feels right. The reverse happens as well.

Back in the 70s women had big puffy hair and at some point (can't remember) most wore big shoulder pads. They felt they evolved into thinking that was the best way to dress, and if someone else hadn't "discovered" that it was the only way to look they might be seen as old fashioned or simple...not into touch with what was the "right" way to look or act. Then that fell out of fashion and for a good period anyone that dressed that way with big hair was seen as behind the times and a bit naive or clueless as to what was the "right" and informed way to dress and wear hair. We do this with just about everything, I think, even in or out of religion or political viewpoints. I am a very, very different person than when I was young, and I think we would all say the same.

So maybe your set of experiences in life has convinced you that none of it is good or safe, and I can respect that you honestly think that way and wouldn't ask you to do anything that wasn't in your comfort zone. Maybe you are right, or right for yourself. Maybe it isn't safe for you and for some, but others have a different set of experiences that are valid as well. Many come out of feeling that it isn't ever safe or okay and feel they have grown into "knowing" or "feeling" that it can be a wonderful thing under safe conditions. Who is to judge who has absolute knowledge of what stage of beliefs is "the" right one? We can't really know, since we could all be tricked right now as we type into typing the opposite of the real and only truth, and we wouldn't even know it. It can get pretty tricky, but as one grows into something, another grows into something else, and I believe that for each person that place on the path is right for him or her.

Since you feel as you describe, I would agree that it isn't a good choice for you and no one should be trying to convince you it is. On the other hand, someone else might be at a different place and on a path where it is something he or she can be safe and benefit from. If I, as a teen or young adult, had been able to watch myself as I am now I would think I was crazy to live as I do, and when I look back on who I was then I see someone who was taught fear and told not to reach to explore or stand up for myself, and not to be myself. I sure can't judge for anyone else what is right, but I do see people benefit and live happy, peaceful, productive lives using safe techniques, so I can't say it is always a bad thing for everyone. I agree that keeping our sleeping areas cleansed and positive is important for sure, and I guess this is one of those things where people are just in different places on the road and we have to find what feels right to us where we go from agreeing on the cleansing. Knowledge and awareness are key to being safe, so it's nice to have so many points of view to consider along the way. :)

[chocolate]

About the trance part, I don't really remember if I have mentioned it, or not, related to the subject of the thread.
It is possible that TH is trying to tell me personally that I probably am partially in states of trance, based on some other posts I have done. And I will have to agree, because I cannot be sure that I haven't been. If I have, it happens on its own terms without my conscious involvement.
But that is not really something I pay attention to all that much, since my world view changed some time ago, and from that point on it really got easier.

I decided to stop by just to share a video, which is also posted on one of the threads about OBEs.

kt_8aOzT92E

I think it contains a lot of useful information, not so much related to jinn, and the like, but more about why we can override the jinn reality, because we are beings 'superior' in nature.
I don't want to start a conversation about elitism as well. I only would want to help others realize that everything is one level much simpler than they think, or much more complicated, depending on how you look at it.

~~~

For the record: my grandmother was a kind of a spiritual healer, or what some call a shaman, may be. She had red hair, grey eyes, and she was great despite what some of my family believed about her.

She used to heal children and adults from voodoo curses. !!
I have seen many come and go.
I remember this from the time I was 5.
I couldn't exactly understand what was happening, but with some life experience it became clearer.

At one point when she was ~70 something years old, she developed breast cancer. She tried to heal it with the same methods she was used to. She went to see other 'healers' ...

Months went by, the tumor grew larger to the point when an operation was necessary.
She went for an operation. She went through chemo.
I used to make her sandwiches with cheese and tomato, which she said were amazing until she admitted she can't feel their taste ...

She passed away soon after.
She sometimes comes in my dreams.
And this was in a very, very dark time for me.

That is to say, be careful in which areas you dwell, and how you make your choices.
You can't use the same methods everywhere and for everything.

My mother carries some of the same gift, but a bit milder, and I think much more practical. She used to heal my knees when I was growing like a mushroom.

As you can understand, we all share a certain level of experiences.
Not that I can say my family is as important or with such a history as the family lines of TraineeHuman or Dawn.

Or may be I just don't put the emphasis of my life on such details.

[chocolate]

Trainee, I was using one of Dawn's articles just to point out a few very strange points. I don't relate to any of what has been written there, neither I can dismiss it easily. I only tried to clear a few concepts from there. As pan tried to help me with this task later.

It may come as a surprise for you, but I don't do much meditation, as you call it, neither I do concentration, unless I am working on a project. I don't try to have an OBE either, and I just don't try too hard to do anything anymore.
Some things for me are natural.
And probably express themselves differently than some are used to see them.

It might be helpful to realize we are not all the same, even though we might share a certain level of something.

[spiritwind]

I truly do believe there is a whole world of sentient beings that, because they didn’t tow the line (of control, enslavement, and oppression), became essentially a parallel unseen world to our own. They never submitted and they have been here through all that has occurred over the course of time here on planet earth, and were here when the primary goal of incarnated beings was to create and maintain beautiful gardens. To work co-creatively, with great mutual respect and honor between species and the forces of nature, and be the caretakers and protectors of this beautiful planet. Maybe this is actually a legacy that originated on another planet, maybe in another star system. Maybe, it is as Agape relates in her story, a multi layered fall from a higher state of consciousness, to one of various levels of impairment resulting from an inability to adjust to a foreign environment.

I also believe that it is possible to reconnect with this natural world in a totally beneficial and life affirming manner that absolutely is as easy as spending time in nature and talking to everything you see with new eyes, as if it was actually as alive and able to communicate with you as your best friend. Seriously, I talk to everything. Out loud even. I can feel the differences between unseen energies now, that either mean to interact in a friendly manner open to mutual sharing, or in a manner that feels controlling or menacing in some way. I didn’t really realize this until the recent discussion about the Jinn. I don’t know what the Jinn really are, and so far I have not really heard definitively from anyone who does know and is willing to share enough to make any assumptions on. I do know, at least from my own personal experiences that I feel very protected when I am out in nature, and this has come about because of a 20 year journey that started with a 3 day fast in a somewhat remote area where my goal was to make a stronger connection with those unseen forces. The energies of nature, when not controlled by man through occult means (or a secret priesthood of man, hybrids, or outright hostile beings from somewhere else who may even be somewhat related to some of these beings/energies that got pushed out of this dimension), are not hostile to anyone who approaches them with respect, as equals. Not under, not above, but as true equals with different attributes.

This has come about after working simultaneously for some time with the “methods of others”. I pretty much quit using the methods of others I realized because it is now time for all of us, in my most humble opinion, to each develop our own unique and very personalized way of communicating and learning to understand for ourselves through our own personal experiences, what it means to work with these various energies. To me, they are like individual people in a way. They are around us all the time and, I believe, are most eager to communicate with us. I actually talk to the trees and tree people around me, the four leggeds of all kinds, the flying ones, those that live in the waters, both fresh and salt. I even talk to the insects I meet. I also talk to all the stone people, and I just realized that I have been consistently over a many years period of time, developing a relationship with these beings that in some ways is more real and fulfilling than many of my human relationships with my fellowman. In many ways they are more trustworthy. But that has just been my experience. I’ve got to think I’m not alone in this. I have chores to do so I am going to leave this as it is for now and would just love it if someone else with similar experiences could maybe elaborate on this idea even more. But, for me, this world (artificially created to control us IMO) would almost be unbearable were it not for my relationship with what to me is the “real world”.

[RunningDeer]

It may come as a surprise for you, but I don't do much meditation, as you call it, neither I do concentration, unless I am working on a project. I don't try to have an OBE either, and I just don't try too hard to do anything anymore.
Some things for me are natural.
And probably express themselves differently than some are used to see them.

It might be helpful to realize we are not all the same, even though we might share a certain level of something.

For me, formal anything is not where my focus is these days. It’s about staying present. When either new, review, or an upgrade of information comes across my path, there’s natural process where information says “pick me, pick me”. Other areas, such as Tai Chi, Chi Kung, Yoga, etc., now it’s about quality rather than quantity (in all aspects of life).

My experience today is that the 24 hour day has collapsed to 12-15 hours. It no longer surprises me when I run down the list of things I’ve accomplish in a couple of hours. In part, my expectations of the to-do-list has changed, and when I do things from the point of view of ‘not-the-body’, they just get done.

I believe most of what I think I need to do is not needed. It’s all creative play. Entertainment. Now if I can recall that when I run into a perceived, annoying blip...well that’s a new level in the game.

[TheVoyager]

Interlaced topics, from my point of view that is…
Here is a link to a recent thread, started by seeker/reader:



Robert Stanley interview with a psychiatirst, schizophrenia - possible archon influence (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?69495-Robert-Stanley-interview-with-a-psychiatirst-schizophrenia-possible-archon-influence)

Below is an interesting interview by Robert Stanley and a psychiatrist, Dr. J, who contacted him regarding his decades long investigation into gaining an understanding of schizophrenia. He contacted Robert Stanley after he heard about his discussions regarding archons. He has worked in state mental hospitals, state prisons, mental health centers and in emergency room crisis centers.

The Dr. said early in his career he became intrigued by "the voices" heard by schizophrenic patients and after having personal interactions with them for many years he has concluded that they are not hallucinations, as traditional psychiatry says they are. He said that these "hallucinations" were always negative experiences. They were not random hallucinations, some good, some neutral and some bad, as you would expect true hallucinations to be. They were consistently negative and always drove the patient toward self-destruction. …

Here is the full interview for those interested.
http://unicusmagazine.com/MP3/01-rob...03_28_2013.mp3
(http://unicusmagazine.com/MP3/01-robert%20%20stanley_URH%203_28_2013.mp3)
Here is the webpage of Robert Stanley, where you can read more.
http://unicusmagazine.com/skyfish.htm (http://unicusmagazine.com/skyfish.htm)

[Delight]

For the record: my grandmother was a kind of a spiritual healer, or what some call a shaman, may be. She had red hair, grey eyes, and she was great despite what some of my family believed about her.

That is to say, be careful in which areas you dwell, and how you make your choices.
You can't use the same methods everywhere and for everything.


For the record, I had a mother who was very psychic and very mentally ill also. Her gifts of sight just made her life more difficult and she was always unhappy, always deeply stuck in feeling victimized. In observation the gifts did not look very attractive.

Lately I had a close friend who was an energy worker, very skilled and who had visions of the virgin Mary (she is of jewish nonreligious family heritage). it was IMPORTNT to her that hse had these visions. it reassured her to feel she had a special relationship. She had the belief that to be a healer was to take on dark energy from others. She believed when she developed a uterine tumor that dark forces she had collected in her body caused it. She died shortly after. This upset me very much as she had expressed to me a desire for more life experience...like a love relationship and giving up her work to just feel into daily life. My thought is if we have the abilities, there is something strange that we do not heal ourselves???

SO, along this line of dialogue, I may be mistaken about "what is what"? This is a difficult time of life for me. I am just not interetsed in the things I used to feel were important. I actually am in a bit of practical crisis of no solid ground and my friends cannot help me because I am faced with my own "state". It is not happy and I used to think it was a stage but it drags on.

Since this thread, I considered MAYBE, I have the very problem of some obstacle imposing energy attachment myself that I deny? SO, since Dawn had help from a particular source, and since that source synchronistically is geographically close, I thought "maybe this is a sign?"

So I called the office. The healer was right there and talked to me. I hope to convey the conversation.
I told him that I am not exactly a believer in energy attachments that need to be cleared by a healer. However, feeling stuck in a static place where i am unmotivated by any aspect of normal "life", maybe I have an issue? He acknowledged the idea of these attachments. I expressed that i am not really interetsed in having someone else do the work. I would like to clear them myself. He said he doubts anyone can do that (except an avatar like Jesus, Buddha, or Mohammed). He said he could not do that for himself as "we cannot get out of our own consciousness".

To be helped would need $600.00, information of personal traumatic events and a picture plus 3 months wait.
I told him I am frustrated enough by my impasses that maybe I would try this help. he emphasized there are no gaurentees.
Then he said what he could do was help me "feel better" with Reiki while waiting and that he is a shaman. I said "no thanks" because we don't have an agreement and I would rather establish the agreement by sending money and the info and also I am still not sure and want to be sure before any work. He told me then I should go elsewhere because he thinks I do not trust him enough. Trust is necessary. In principle I agree as Jsus said that of the woman who touched his clothing in the crowd knowing she would heal.

Actually how would I know he IS trustworthy because he is distant from me. I do not think I could "know" to trust except by saying "I choose help and THAT makes the help trustworthy by my own decision?" Then that goes back to my bias that it is ME the whole time doing the work so why do i need him or any "one"?

I was a little surprised to be turned away. But actually this was perfect because i don't agree with the idea that I need him to do anything for me. I DO want to learn how to do for myself. It is also amusing that Dawn who brought up the issue of energy work has a healer who wants to do energy work before clearing?

Today I am back to simmering in my own static cling of resistance for the apparent life choices I can see. I admit still that I may be mistaken about anything and everything. The truth is my whole interest and I seek that avenue of cure. Sensing my "situation" must be what I choose demands that I continue doing my own brand of contemplation on God as I understand God being my Source and THE place for my help. And under all the surface stuff, I feel that there is only GOODNESS.

[Synchronicity]

Seriously? 600? Umm well, that is really odd, and that person wouldn't be anything like any shaman I ever dealt with or would want to, personally. I wouldn't turn anyone away who honestly couldn't pay and the shamans I know wouldn't either. Heck, whole series of classes don't cost that much and you learn to do things yourself. Yes, Reiki can help you feel better, but there is way more to energy work than just making you feel better. Reiki and other modalities, given through someone trained and with simple intent to help you empower yourself, can help you get to that place where you can become empowered to release whatever you are ready to release, and it is you doing the releasing work. The point of energy work isn't supposed to be to make a person need to come to the shaman or the practitioner repeatedly over a long time, but to release what holds us stuck...there really isn't a picture needed and distance work is common. A picture is nice to have as a focus, but usually having no information is the norm so that all that comes up isn't from what you tell the person.

I do find that clearing our own energy can be a challenge and I personally ask the shaman I trust or one of my students (really they are teachers, though) to help if I feel I need some work myself. Now I'm not saying it can't be done, since there are many things we definitely can clear ourselves, but sometimes everyone needs a bit of help.

If you read the thread and started thinking because of the thread something must there I would say it is different than if you had felt that way or started feeling that way on your own, too...I mean, it's good to check in with ourselves and get help if we need to be checked out, but it's also easy to start feeling all the side effects on the medication handout as well. (generally, not just you) I would say if you do decide to seek out anyone, please make sure there isn't that large sum of money attached and that it feels right to you. Unfortunately anyone can call him/herself a shaman, Reiki Master, healer, or psychic, so I am glad you didn't pursue that with the person. I think many can feel which helper is right for them, but they may not listen to that inner voice telling them that one or the other isn't. You have the right to ethical, respectful treatment and to know what the person's background, training, practice, skills, methods, and viewpoint is, and anyone who doesn't have clear answers and doesn't make it clear that s/he isn't the authority on you and isn't there to talk you into anything or make you feel under control or frightened is one to run from.

It's not about mystical answers that only the healer knows, but more the willingness s/he has to step back, allow positive and compassionate guides (or whatever that person identifies as guidance), including your own guides, to help you in whatever way you need help with in a given moment. It's not a human thing if done with the "hollow bone" intent and isn't about how much you pay or making you need to come back. It's helping you get in touch with you and open what you are ready to open, release what you are ready to release, and to empower you to learn if you choose to about yourself and what is healthy energy for you personally. We can all access that information to a point, but it does help to be shown how to safely if we feel we want to explore for ourselves I think. Some obstacles aren't major and are easier to release, but some are deeper issues and need a bit more work. Either way, the person's intent to release and willingness to let go makes a big difference...everything isn't an entity or real attachment that is stuck...sometimes it is...but often it isn't.

Anyway, I had to comment after I read that about the shaman you contacted...distance is something many don't feel comfortable with until they experience it, but it can be amazing IF the intent and skills are right. I wish you a wonderful journey whatever you do..searching for truth is a noble venture. :)

[Delight]

Seriously? 600? Umm well, that is really odd, and that person wouldn't be anything like any shaman I ever dealt with or would want to, personally. I wouldn't turn anyone away who honestly couldn't pay and the shamans I know wouldn't either. Heck, whole series of classes don't cost that much and you learn to do things yourself. Yes, Reiki can help you feel better, but there is way more to energy work than just making you feel better. Reiki and other modalities, given through someone trained and with simple intent to help you empower yourself, can help you get to that place where you can become empowered to release whatever you are ready to release, and it is you doing the releasing work. The point of energy work isn't supposed to be to make a person need to come to the shaman or the practitioner repeatedly over a long time, but to release what holds us stuck...there really isn't a picture needed and distance work is common. A picture is nice to have as a focus, but usually having no information is the norm so that all that comes up isn't from what you tell the person.

I do find that clearing our own energy can be a challenge and I personally ask the shaman I trust or one of my students (really they are teachers, though) to help if I feel I need some work myself. Now I'm not saying it can't be done, since there are many things we definitely can clear ourselves, but sometimes everyone needs a bit of help.

If you read the thread and started thinking because of the thread something must there I would say it is different than if you had felt that way or started feeling that way on your own, too...I mean, it's good to check in with ourselves and get help if we need to be checked out, but it's also easy to start feeling all the side effects on the medication handout as well. (generally, not just you) I would say if you do decide to seek out anyone, please make sure there isn't that large sum of money attached and that it feels right to you. Unfortunately anyone can call him/herself a shaman, Reiki Master, healer, or psychic, so I am glad you didn't pursue that with the person. I think many can feel which helper is right for them, but they may not listen to that inner voice telling them that one or the other isn't. You have the right to ethical, respectful treatment and to know what the person's background, training, practice, skills, methods, and viewpoint is, and anyone who doesn't have clear answers and doesn't make it clear that s/he isn't the authority on you and isn't there to talk you into anything or make you feel under control or frightened is one to run from.

It's not about mystical answers that only the healer knows, but more the willingness s/he has to step back, allow positive and compassionate guides (or whatever that person identifies as guidance), including your own guides, to help you in whatever way you need help with in a given moment. It's not a human thing if done with the "hollow bone" intent and isn't about how much you pay or making you need to come back. It's helping you get in touch with you and open what you are ready to open, release what you are ready to release, and to empower you to learn if you choose to about yourself and what is healthy energy for you personally. We can all access that information to a point, but it does help to be shown how to safely if we feel we want to explore for ourselves I think. Some obstacles aren't major and are easier to release, but some are deeper issues and need a bit more work. Either way, the person's intent to release and willingness to let go makes a big difference...everything isn't an entity or real attachment that is stuck...sometimes it is...but often it isn't.

Anyway, I had to comment after I read that about the shaman you contacted...distance is something many don't feel comfortable with until they experience it, but it can be amazing IF the intent and skills are right. I wish you a wonderful journey whatever you do..searching for truth is a noble venture. :)

Thanks for the reply and there is much information in your post useful to any one. I am not complaining about this particular healer and I hope I presented the dialogue accurately. It is kind of interesting that as we talked, HE decided I was not a good candidate for his services.

[Synchronicity]

Yes, I took your comments to mean that he did and not that you were complaining. I'm glad he decided that since it worked out for you. I guess your post hit a nerve with me since I see people who run into less than ethical energy workers sometimes and it's not good. If it becomes about something the "healer" needs to prove, an expectation s/he has about the outcome, or about the amazingness of the person him or herself, then it's not ethical in my personal view. Once the human ego comes into play I feel that the purity of the intention is lost and the "healing" becomes about the healer and not the person who asked for help. Then shortcuts are taken and messages that can be warnings to stop, change methods, or leave something alone, release it now, or that it isn't what the worker thinks it is gets lost in the noise. No one's perfect..it's a balance to find...but so worth it for all concerned when it works well. :)

[RunningDeer]

Today I am back to simmering in my own static cling of resistance for the apparent life choices I can see. I admit still that I may be mistaken about anything and everything. The truth is my whole interest and I seek that avenue of cure. Sensing my "situation" must be what I choose demands that I continue doing my own brand of contemplation on God as I understand God being my Source and THE place for my help. And under all the surface stuff, I feel that there is only GOODNESS.

Ten years ago, I left the clock 'n' calendar world. I choose a lifestyle that’s small but fulfilling. Back then, there was an urgency to discover “the meaning of life”. As a recovering perfectionist, I couldn’t do it with interruptions. Ha! If there’s an ankle biter, it’d be the perfection meme.

I live alone, but I’m not lonely. Most days, I can’t wait to jump out of bed and begin all over again. But, over the last couple of years, I find myself making less and less commitments with others simply because I go from needing quietude…to needing even more quietude.

I do periodic self-checks. And I do hava-look at the possibility of trickster interventions. It’s not depression nor agoraphobia. It comes on without warning. I find myself dodging commitments with others and haven’t reconciled the feelings that come with those decisions.

In my center of centers, my understanding is that a lot of internal and external changes are abound. And being an empath, I pick up on others’ projections. Which is why, for now, I need a lot of private time. And at another level, I’m at rest, in preparation for when others may need support.

In the meantime, I have gratitude for the experience that less is more, simplicity is freedom, and that one day I’ll share in it, with another.

RunningDeer <3

[Synchronicity]

Today I am back to simmering in my own static cling of resistance for the apparent life choices I can see. I admit still that I may be mistaken about anything and everything. The truth is my whole interest and I seek that avenue of cure. Sensing my "situation" must be what I choose demands that I continue doing my own brand of contemplation on God as I understand God being my Source and THE place for my help. And under all the surface stuff, I feel that there is only GOODNESS.

Ten years ago, I left the clock 'n' calendar world. I choose a lifestyle that’s small but fulfilling. Back then, there was an urgency to discover “the meaning of life”. As a recovering perfectionist, I couldn’t do it with interruptions. Ha! If there’s an ankle biter, it’d be the perfection meme.

I live alone, but I’m not lonely. Most days, I can’t wait to jump out of bed and begin all over again. But, over the last couple of years, I find myself making less and less commitments with others simply because I go from needing quietude…to needing even more quietude.

I do periodic self-checks. And I do hava-look at the possibility of trickster interventions. It’s not depression nor agoraphobia. It comes on without warning. I find myself dodging commitments with others and haven’t reconciled the feelings that come with those decisions.

In my center of centers, my understanding is that a lot of internal and external changes are abound. And being an empath, I pick up on others’ projections. Which is why, for now, I need a lot of private time. And at another level, I’m at rest, in preparation for when others may need support.

In the meantime, I have gratitude for the experience that less is more, simplicity is freedom, and that one day I’ll share in it, with another.

RunningDeer <3

I am the same way, RunningDeer. I need that time to myself to recharge. Being an empath is a wonderful thing, but it can be exhausting if we don't take care of ourselves. I am so glad that you are taking the time you need. I am quite miserable when I don't, and I often crave that peace. Enjoy :)

[TheVoyager]

Holographic Kinetics (HK) is an advanced healing modality which also makes clearings of all sorts of inter dimensional interferences in a fast and safe way.
In order to be able to do this work one needs to want to work on their issues and deal with them.

Robert Stanley's interview (August 8th 2013) with Steve Richards, the founder of Holographic Kinetics:

https://ia601901.us.archive.org/22/items/01RobertStanleyURH882013/01-robert%20%20stanley_URH8_8_2013.mp3

[Rich]

I haven't read all the posts but personally I think this is fear mongering
and we actually have to be careful what we put our energy into.
If someone reads '' meditation may invite possession'', and believes it
then s/he implants this negative believe into her/himself, which s/he
will experience in some way or another so be careful what you believe.

What you put in is what you get back, that's a law. If you meditate on
love and peace you cannot get back an evil spirit, that is impossible,
so just be aware what your state is while you meditate that is all.
If you plant carrots they won't turn into bananas, so nothing to be afraid of.
The reason why it may seem that meditation will attract negativity is because
it will light our own negativity in us, we can then take responsibility for it and grow further.

I realize what I'm saying is incomplete and only one angle, but wanted to
share this because of all the fearful concepts I see here.

Yes someone may join a cult and perform meditations that indeed could
have affects of this sort, however not really if he is clear of his
intentions i.e. 'what you put in is what you get back'.

pX5CmJw0QTM

[Rich]

I believe that everyone has complete power to create their reality and to
fear someone having power over you will create that experience, but by your
own power because whatever you say has power over you is you, it's you who says it.

''...you are creating your physical reality experience with what you believe to be true...''~Bashar

[Dawn]

Wow! Oh Wow! Shortly after posting this thread I knew it was very important for me to take an 'Avalon Diet'. I haven't worried about 'why' I needed this... I just went with the quiet internal flow that directs my life these days. It has been wonderful and I am delving into a very soft and balanced form of self harmonizing called Jin Shin Jyutsu. I understand this is translated as 'Getting to Know (Help) Myself Art of Living'. It has been a sweet couple of weeks in my life.

I read every one of the posts made since I was here last and each one filled me with a sense of delight and joy. I am so deeply touched by absolutely everyone who has turned this topic over carefully to look at it... and then shared what they see or know. There is so much wisdom here. Ahhhh.

I'd like to clarify one thing (it is really a 'nuts and bolts' piece of info). Dr. Skillas, who's work has been a great boon to me personally, works with 2 others for every session. His fee of $600 covers the cost of 3 total people who all work as a team. The session times vary from 1.5-7.5 hours each. You might not think such work is worth $600 but I do. I know how rare it is to find others who actually have the power and clarity to shift deep patterns in consciousness.... and I am grateful I found him. That does not mean that he is the only competent person out there, and it does not mean that you might be able to find some one who does not charge as much... or even who does 'pro bono' work.

Back to the topic at hand. One of the rare and wonderful things about enjoying the evolution of consciousness is the ability to enjoy trying on different belief patterns to see how they feel and how the world looks though them. There is so much rich sharing here, and I find I actually enjoy all of the thoughts expressed about this topic.

One thing I am pretty sure of... I don't think the modern society (which tells its children 'there is nothing there') has a wise view. I think it is important to be able to discuss the 'bogey man in the closet', and the 'monster under the bed'. I think when children see these things, they are seeing something real... but we teach them to turn a blind eye to it. Pretending that negative entities (who appear to be self aware) do not exist, does not help us deal with things at all.

Just pretending that something is not there, does not actually handle the issue. If we have created these with our subconscious, then we need to look at them and see what we did. And if the SELF (or God that is the great creator of all that is) birthed these, then it is a good idea to stop pretending they are not there. IMHO

As far as mediation trances... well, let us just say that I have experienced the extremes that can happen when meditation is taken to the max... and I was (from 1988 to 1997) labeled mentally ill by Kaiser psychiatrists. How did I get out of the medical establishment and of the brand they put on me as a 'mentally ill patient'? Well, I researched how this type of thing is handled in countries where meditation and spirituality is a part of life. I came up with a list of many herbs and minerals that were used to help people balance. By accident I found a company which actually formulates such a product, and I found a Zen Master to meditate with. I learned to continue to harmonize my nervous system, even under high energy situations and kundalini awakenings. If you ever know anyone who 'goes insane' from meditation, then it might be valuable to know that Source Naturals makes a product called 'Positive Thoughts'.... this did the trick for my nervous system.

After 8-9 years 'in the system' mostly as an outpatient, one of my assigned doctors folded his hands and looked at me across his desk ,"Of course you realize by now that you are not, nor ever were, mentally ill. However in Western Medicine we have no way to help someone like you who is going through spriritual awakening except through medication. What you need to do is find a teacher who can help you balance the energies you are dealing with."

20+ years after the first time a very large elephant ran through my tent (the joking term used to describe when someone sees beyond this reality for the first time) I can handle just about anything... and I can do it with grace and ease. But that doesn't mean that there were not hurdles along the way... and one of these has been to really see the 'dark side' of things... as well as the 'light side'

If you are interested I'd like to recommend an investment in reading a trilogy. I promise that you will find it fun... in fact you will barely be able to put it down for it is very well written. A wise man suggested I read it after he found out I could see the Jinn. What if the dark magicians and satonists controling earth have been enslaving Jinn for centuries? This book is from the perspective of a Jinn, who has been pressed into the service of one master after another for centuries. Here is a link to it on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_6?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=bartemaus%20trilogy&sprefix=bartem%2Caps%2C331


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519-%2Bxg-X4L._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

[Synchronicity]

I do not pretend there is nothing but good. I do not encourage anyone to do that, just for the record. That would be folly, dangerous, and naive. I don't tell my kids there is nothing bad, either. That would leave them vulnerable. What I teach them is that they have control over their lives and their home. Sometimes there is something evil to release, pull off, detach, or work with, but many times there is illness that can be helped, confusion, loss, something simply needing to be helped or released, or a soul/spirit/energy that needs help or wants a bit of guidance. Acknowledging there is dark energy and then choosing consciously to work with positive energy instead, learning to dispel the negative under appropriate conditions, and not taking anything to the absolute max (which usually means some kind of unhealthy imbalance and absolutely isn't a good idea) is a good thing. I know there is dark/negative energy. I have been attacked before many times, especially when I was younger and didn't know to embrace and choose the positive, I have faced true evil, and I know all is not sweetness and innocence. My kids know that and part of teaching others to be safe is to acknowledge that one must be careful who/what one asks for and who one works with. If one does energy work under the impression that all is perfectly fine and there is no negative energy, then one is open to harm. There is a difference, however, in taking control of a situation and being kind but firm, choosing to work with positive and allowing only that, and assuming that there is no evil in the universe. Some have simply learned that one doesn't have to be tossed around at the mercy of negative energy/beings/people, while some have learned something different.

Shamanic cultures often believe that some kind of "mental health" crisis or episode is necessary for those called to work with spirit, and the reality is that in "modern" cultures a person can sit in a church and talk to an invisible person and be considered pious and in prayer, while the person on the church steps who is talking to something invisible to most people would be considered ill and in need of treatment. Silly, actually. If I sit in church and call out to that invisible being and follow him publicly I will most likely be revered and trusted, but if I stand in the woods and call out to my guides or to nature I may find myself humored, ridiculed, or treated for delusions. Sad, but true. Once again, it's all in the context and bigger picture...I know the evil. I choose to work with the positive. There are many ways to help someone going through spiritual trials or enlightenment that don't involve traditional meditation, but most of the time Western medicine is too busy giving out pills and labeling people to use anything else. So sad...closed minds and arrogance have kept many who aren't sick trapped in the system.

I agree that pretending all is perfect and safe isn't a good idea. Assuming most, or all, is evil and waiting to attack or posses isn't good either, though. We aren't all-knowing, but we aren't at the mercy of everything coming along, either. There is a balance to be found. I meditate, but not to exclusion of everything else. I do energy work, but I don't live in that state of consciousness all the time. Not everything is innocence, but not everything that isn't innocent is evil or with bad intentions. If I assume meditation, yoga, or energy work is all an open invitation to anything in the neighborhood to overtake me, so I avoid it out of fear, I am letting that negative energy run my life. Not happening and doesn't have to happen in my own experience. Balance and knowledge, education, training, experience, tools to be safe...balance...balance, choices, intuition, and awareness make the difference between being tricked and possessed and getting healthier and energy levels moving up. I would say learn and take control, and if a person doesn't feel that is possible then it isn't a good idea to do whatever makes a person feel open to attack. To each his/her own. One path just isn't right for everyone. Believing something isn't there doesn't mean it isn't, and believing it is doesn't mean it is. But it doesn't matter what I think for anyone but me...it's what each person wants, needs, and reaches for that matters to that person.

This isn't an absolute. Telling everyone that s/he MUST meditate or do yoga isn't a good idea, but telling people they shouldn't do it at all isn't a good idea either. Some do find wonderful benefits and some take it to the extremes or do it in an unsafe way, have a bad experience, or find it isn't for them. There are many paths to the same place and some are straight and simple, while some are long and full of challenges. Both are legitimate and both can lead to a good place. This doesn't have to be all or none and going through some "darkness" along the way is just part of the journey. It's nice that we can learn about others' journeys and find some tools and knowledge that might help us on our own. Dawn, I am happy that you have found a good place to be from what you describe. That is wonderful! I have as well and I agree it is a good feeling. However we got here, the nice thing is we got here:)

[greybeard]

As Synchronicity pointed out its a question of balance.
We all knows that cars are involved in fatal accidents---that does not stop us from crossing the road of travelling in them.
I taught people to drive for years and I found that the nervous ones attracted what they were afraid of--it was my job to lift their confidence and help to install a positive attitude.
The moment the thinking changed they were truly safe.

In the early days of learning to meditat I read everything I could lay my hands on about this and this led me to want to meditate with one eye open, just in case!!!!
So yes there were a few scary moments because I listened to so called experts.
The moment I got off thinking others advice and special techniques were necessary---peace naturally followed.

What special technique is required to discover that which is already present????

I just sit--be still, be quiet and be aware--that's it.

Namaste

[markpierre]

he thinks I do not trust him enough. Trust is necessary. In principle I agree as Jsus said that of the woman who touched his clothing in the crowd knowing she would heal.

Actually how would I know he IS trustworthy because he is distant from me. I do not think I could "know" to trust except by saying "I choose help and THAT makes the help trustworthy by my own decision?" Then that goes back to my bias that it is ME the whole time doing the work so why do i need him or any "one"?

I was a little surprised to be turned away. But actually this was perfect because i don't agree with the idea that I need him to do anything for me. I DO want to learn how to do for myself. It is also amusing that Dawn who brought up the issue of energy work has a healer who wants to do energy work before clearing?

God as I understand God being my Source and THE place for my help. And under all the surface stuff, I feel that there is only GOODNESS.

He's right. You don't trust him enough. Unhealthy thinking attracts all kinds of unhealthy junk. If you trusted anything enough it would work. I'll take care of it for you now, no charge. If I can't do it in 7.5 minutes, it can't be done. It isn't there.

The blue italicized is your answer, and beyond common things like attachments. but it doesn't depend on you trusting that enough, it depends on you allowing it. Take a position and forget about it. That'll allow it.

So how can you make choices from a state of 'static cling of resistance'? I like that phrase. You don't need a god that won't help you out with the important stuff. If he wants you to be happy, you're going to have to make the choices that will make you happy. 'Happy'. Not other stuff. Just happy. Keep it general. Then give God a freeking chance.
Junk doesn't stick above a certain frequency, and it isn't that high a frequency. Love whatever is in front of you. That's easy. Don't bother with anything else.

[chocolate]

[...] You don't trust him enough. Unhealthy thinking attracts all kinds of unhealthy junk. If you trusted anything enough it would work. I'll take care of it for you now, no charge. If I can't do it in 7.5 minutes, it can't be done. It isn't there.

[...]

Junk doesn't stick above a certain frequency, and it isn't that high a frequency. Love whatever is in front of you. That's easy. Don't bother with anything else.

I made this promise never to come back to this thread, but at last I found someone who said exactly what I was saying all along. I mean, I am just way too young for anyone to trust anything I say, right?

Thank you. I hope people read you post. And the post greybeard did.

[The Truth Is In There]

i believe we experience - in our personal lives - only what we are in resonance with, but also that things that are seemingly "outside" can somehow enforce that resonance and force us to deal with them if we require it from a higher perspective.

what does that mean?

if someone is full of love and light and somebody or something keeps bothering that person he or she will eventually be forced to deal with "the problem". none of us is perfect so problems do come up every now and then (we create them for us, even if we're not aware of it) and how we deal with them puts us in resonance with certain energies.

if the person manages to deal with the "negative stuff" in a very loving manner there can't be resonance with even more "negative stuff". instead the issue will be resolved and the person has a little less "negativity" in his/her life. if however the person gets angry and all that then it will draw more "negativity" into the life because of resonance and the person may well enter a downward spiral.

this can happen with "negative" people we attract, or things we put in our homes, or certain entities, or even "negative" places we live in.

small example: the house (or rather, the entire landscape, it has nothing to do with me personally) in which i live has rather negative energy (in my home only 36% postitive on average and 64% negative) which affects me negatively in various manners. i'm not psychic so i can't say anythig about djinn or whatever, but i can feel the energies. when i moved here i didn't feel them but they were here nonetheless and i was forced to deal with them. i've learned a lot since then which i would not have learned without these energies in place. it's all a matter of perspective! i'm going to move to a new place soon which is 78% positive on average. i know it will help me to continue my development but in a different direction and perhaps with less negative influence overall and that will make things a little easier for me as a person.

what i wanted to say with this is there's an interaction between us and that which is seemingly "outside" of us, like places or people for instance. once we have dealt with the seeming "negativity" - learned the lessons - these things will disappear. but like always attracts like and what's important is how we deal with the issues that arise. it doesn't matter which names we put on them, djinn, archon or whatever. seeing/experiencing entities that are not really "physical" can be a help or a hindrance, or simply another lesson a person has taken on. from what i've read, dawn, you seem to have taken on quite a bit. the harder the lesson the faster the growth if you're successful so good luck to you!

[markpierre]

[...] You don't trust him enough. Unhealthy thinking attracts all kinds of unhealthy junk. If you trusted anything enough it would work. I'll take care of it for you now, no charge. If I can't do it in 7.5 minutes, it can't be done. It isn't there.

[...]

Junk doesn't stick above a certain frequency, and it isn't that high a frequency. Love whatever is in front of you. That's easy. Don't bother with anything else.

I made this promise never to come back to this thread, but at last I found someone who said exactly what I was saying all along. I mean, I am just way too young for anyone to trust anything I say, right?

Thank you. I hope people read you post. And the post greybeard did.

You take the position that you have to take. You shouldn't need to defend it. You took it pretty thoroughly,
but that position doesn't come from avoiding tribulation. It comes from not wanting it anymore.
That's a position very few people have.
'No one asks for their horror stories' was their previous position.
A beetle can sit there for a while under a magnifying glass, but eventually it will move. You don't want to take that opportunity away from anyone, as much as it seems reasonable to try.
You can have all the attachments that can fit on you, they can't kill you, or make you less responsible for hosting them.

[Delight]

[...] You don't trust him enough. Unhealthy thinking attracts all kinds of unhealthy junk. If you trusted anything enough it would work. I'll take care of it for you now, no charge. If I can't do it in 7.5 minutes, it can't be done. It isn't there.

[...]

Junk doesn't stick above a certain frequency, and it isn't that high a frequency. Love whatever is in front of you. That's easy. Don't bother with anything else.

I made this promise never to come back to this thread, but at last I found someone who said exactly what I was saying all along. I mean, I am just way too young for anyone to trust anything I say, right?

Thank you. I hope people read you post. And the post greybeard did.

You take the position that you have to take. You shouldn't need to defend it. You took it pretty thoroughly,
but that position doesn't come from avoiding tribulation. It comes from not wanting it anymore.
That's a position very few people have.
'No one asks for their horror stories' was their previous position.
A beetle can sit there for a while under a magnifying glass, but eventually it will move. You don't want to take that opportunity away from anyone, as much as it seems reasonable to try.
You can have all the attachments that can fit on you, they can't kill you, or make you less responsible for hosting them.

Thank you so much. A reference to Beetles...synchronicity!!! The Beetle who should not be able to fly Levitates! The Beetle with her hard Carapace is all soft and allowing in her underneath! I always loved beetles but they mean something like a ally today.

Synchronicity often is a way that my lifeline slinks around the barriers of my mind. The connections between seemingly very disparate moments encourages me to trust the great Universal All Goodness "being consciousness" through my small glimpse here. I look for and find help through synchronicity like lots of people here.

One certainty I feel despite sometimes a doubt springing up to release:
The Universe (creation) is ALL GOODNESS (my word for what Tom Campbell calls coherent and evolving in LOVE and expansion) because only coherence can stay in form. It may have chaotic moments but if it were not "wholesome", it would just fall apart. I see that as an image and feel the truth of my imagination. I have hit my shins plenty of times but I know how I was responsible. IMO it was that I felt I should receive compensation for what I thought was true. But the ideas I had that keep me down are NOT TRUE.

I am determined to release my attachments to opinions that decimate my moment NOW.
Example: when I was about 4, I disobeyed my father "in his face" and even as he told me "don't touch that", picked up a rare crystal bowl he was unpacking and broke it. He back handed me and I flew across the room and hit my head and had a concussion.
My interpretation even as my mother was screaming at "the abuser" was that I knew I "deserved it".
THAT IS A STORY. The meaning I made of it was one that informed my opinion of me, my mother whom IMO was wrong to hold it against Dad and my relationship to Dad because I feared any number of the implications.

Everyone has bad stories with implications and we can unlearn the stories and ditch the meanings of stories. It is endlessly possible to see more by looking longer.

Yesterday I discovered a movie about a Brazilian martial art called


Capoeira (/ˌkæpuːˈɛərə/; Portuguese pronunciation: [kapuˈejɾɐ]) is a Brazilian martial art that combines elements of dance,[1][2][3] acrobatics[4] and music, and is sometimes referred to as a game. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capoeira

I learned that in slave times, the martial art was hidden in a game. Music and making it look like dance enabled the practitioners to escape the concern of their "masters". Slavery is a terrible insult to self esteem. It an idea that like ANY sense of unfair can make us self loathing and feel pitiful. Low self esteem is a self governor and we project our sense on the "other". So we actually keep the round about of terrible treatment and punishment by acceptance of a bad idea in the mind replayed.

How would you know this is so without experiencing it? How can one heal what is "not there". Who "put it there?" though not true to work on me? I DID. False belief calls for deconstruction IMO. I think I "put punishment there" so I could erase its meaning!! No more suffering. That IMO is the point of the "mind game" I created.

IMO THIS "lift off" is what I am passionate for myself. Lift off and fly despite lack of evidence that I should be able because I cannot recall it...but I am a beetle hehe.

A well known practitioner of this art is Besouro means beetle in Portuguese.


That name was chosen because he became known to be able to escape out of difficult situations. Just like a black beetle, spreading its wings at the top of a branch and taking flight. And just like a beetle he would be always on the move.

According to the tales passed on by generations, Besouro had a great sense of justice.
This sense was often awakened through the great injustice the black people in Santo Amaro were suffering from by the local authorities. The majority of the population where Besouro lived was black. Although slavery was abolished officially in 1888, they had virtually no rights. After the abolition a punishment law was made in 1890 which enabled the police to pursue not only people playing capoeira but also people practising their African religion, candomblé.http://sfcapoeira.com/the-legend-of-besouro/

There are stories about the way we have "justified" capture and imprisonment of "others" like the Djinn based on a lie we believed. Yes, all our angst and all that we do from false belief is to end here and now in truth IMO.

fVJDQRmlCSM

[onawah]

I just discovered this thread, and the title alone is compelling.
From what I've read, as usual no one is quite on the same page, but just the fact that this is being discussed is kind of remarkable!
My available time for being online is becoming shorter, but I hope to be able to read more of this one.
Thanks to everyone for sharing.

[Dawn]

In this post I’d like to look at the question of Jinn and Demons as something that IS discussed and dealt with in eastern ‘all is one’ meditation traditions. I've put in a few quotes from those who contributed to this idea.

There are also a few people who expressed worry over me and some sort of trepidation that I might not ‘get out of ‘it’’. I'm not going to quote these posts... I'm just going to say... please don't worry about me... I am doing fine... I am just curious about this topic and I'd like to look at it as squarely and fearlessly as possible.

After reading all the wonderful and thoughtful posts yesterday, today my mind is turning them over to see what has not been addressed and what is left out of different thinking patterns. I actually opened this thread to get assistance in looking at something which appears real, yet humanity seems to have been programmed to ignore it. Coming our of fear (and a sort of ostrich like behavior) is an important part of the awakening process. I assume everyone here on this thread is coming out of fear about this topic and finding genuine curiosity? Well, at least I hope so.

Here are a few questions and observations I wish to make


Graybeard: The difficulty is the mind loves to come up with a reason when something unexpected happens in meditation or spiritual work.
There might be no reason-- no cause and effect.----or there might be.
Again the mind wants to control.
Its not a question of controlling the mind---thoughts arrive unasked for and depart if left alone.
Basically the thoughts are noticed but neither encouraged nor discouraged. link: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?69395-Meditation-and-any-work-with-Chi-or-Prana-may-invite-possession-by-Jinn&p=808721&viewfull=1#post808721

Graybeard: you have made a number of observations about how to sit and overcome everything through the consciousness that all is one and with an aware mind. I caught a post of yours on one of the Simon threads where you told him where to look for enlightenment and that he was not properly understanding his experience. You seem kind of arrogant to me... but perhaps you are fully enlightened and so you know all there is to know about this topic... in which case I should look at all the years of meditation and awareness I have practiced and realize that I am not as enlightened as you are. Rather humbling idea, which doesn't feel correct to me... but I should be open to the possibility ... and you are certainly invited to say more here.

Are you aware of this biography? Lady of the Lotus-Born: The Life and Enlightenment of Yeshe Tsogyal
available here: http://www.amazon.com/Lady-Lotus-Born-Enlightenment-Yeshe-Tsogyal-ebook/dp/B00AYKPKXS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1395950136&sr=8-1&keywords=lady+of+the+lotus+born


From Amazon Book Description: The first Tibetan to attain complete enlightenment was in all probability the woman Yeshe Tsogyal, the closest disciple of Padmasambhava, the master who brought Buddhism to Tibet in the eighth century. This classical text is not only a biography but also an inspiring example of how the Buddha's teaching can be put into practice.

During her 375 years on earth, Yeshe developed a following of demons who swore fealty to her and are said to continue to serve her here on earth in order to help humans become enlightened

If Yeshe, who is considered to be the very first enlightened Tibetan, ends up working with demons then perhaps she knew something we do not yet know? I'm not 375 years old (since the last time I was erased) so I'm willing to think she has more wisdom than I do. What is your opinion? Do you think she needed to sit and clean up her thinking by watching her thoughts?

Perhaps we are looking at spiritual gatekeeper phenomenon here? There are so many references to this concept that I am hard pressed to choose one. Perhaps the gatekeepers only show up to challenge the increasingly enlightened person? What do you think about this concept?

Simon Parks has mentioned that he has ‘jinn or demon protectors’ and that anyone doing remote viewing of him needs to be careful because of this. He says that this is very normal and ordinary for all illuminati. This tracks exactly with the ‘factional’ story of Bartemeous (see my earlier post about this book trilogy) which details a world in which the ‘masters and politicians’ can see and control demons and Jinn, but ordinary humans cannot see them.

What I see in all of your posts is a claim that everything is a thought and that watching thoughts resolves everything. That is not my personal experience at all. But I’d like to ask you to address my comments here, because I’d love to hear back from you. Your input is always welcome and I look forward to it.

I also read a tedious and detailed autobiography called ‘Daughter of Fire’ (available here:
http://www.amazon.com/Daughter-Fire-Spiritual-Training-Master/dp/0963457454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1395951716&sr=8-1&keywords=daughter+of+fire ).
This is a personal account of spiritual training with a Sufi master. This master did work in healing people from demonic attacks, and with the author, as she faced some really strange and challenging life forms. What can you tell us about someone who spends his entire life sitting in meditation and a student of his who does so as well? Do you think that sitting and watching their thoughts would clear this all up?

Really and truly I am curious about your understanding of all of this. Please tell us all more about your personal experiences. Is your mind totally silent? Honestly, what do you think about others who report something different. Are they all disillusioned in your opinion? Do you think they are all just suffering from 'thoughts' they should 'observe' in order to allow them to 'fade away'? And, if you have never had experiences with any of these entities I am curious why you are attracted to this thread..... Please share more


markpierre: He's right. You don't trust him enough. Unhealthy thinking attracts all kinds of unhealthy junk. If you trusted anything enough it would work. I'll take care of it for you now, no charge. If I can't do it in 7.5 minutes, it can't be done. It isn't there.
post: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?69395-Meditation-and-any-work-with-Chi-or-Prana-may-invite-possession-by-Jinn&p=814782&viewfull=1#post814782


Markpierre, Your comments are intriguing. As a person who has done this type of work (balancing and healing people and entities) I am very surprised. You have an amazing gift! OMG. When I hired Dr. Skillas, his team worked for 7.5 hours to clear the first 2 layers, and 7.5 hours to clear the next 2 layers of my field 4 months later. Your statement creates incredulity on my part about your gifts. When I used to work with others my sessions usually were 60 to 90 minutes long. Are you certain you know what you are talking about?

~How do you alter the agreements these entities have with their host?
~How do you heal the entities?
~Do you help the entities move on and evolve or do you just leave them hanging around looking for someone to attach to here in this reality?
~Have you done this with a lot of people and have they had good long term results?
And... perhaps these questions come from a lack of understanding on my part and you have an entirely different view.

Please tell us all more about what you do and how you do it.

I’m going to interject a bit of info here which directly conflicts with what you wrote

"unhealthy thinking attracts all kinds of junk"
Every healer and every ‘master’ I have met has informed me that I have difficulty with dead people and demons hanging around because of my ‘tremendous light’. Apparently as one gets brighter and more filled with life along the road to enlightenment and awareness they attract more things which are the opposite. Do you think this perspective is totally false? I am really open to your view.


TraineeHuman: If I understand correctly, of course trance of any kind strongly invites certain kinds of very partial possession or worse, for reasons which a number of posters have already explained in considerable detail here. It's a big red flag that you wave in case they haven't noticed you've set aside your defences -- your natural protection. Why give up your deeper "I", ever? As we know, ultimately that is Source itself. And yet, as I understand it, trance is precisely such a giving up. Of course trance of any kind will at least open you to psychic parasites.

Regarding transmission of chi, I do love to receive the essence behind the chi a true master of it is transmitting. I've learnt how to gobble up every last tidbit. If I'd been there, chocolate, when that Shaolin master was transmitting, they wouldn't need to put it into a statue, because I'd take it all, and not apologize. (post: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?69395-Meditation-and-any-work-with-Chi-or-Prana-may-invite-possession-by-Jinn&p=810396&viewfull=1#post810396)

TraineeHuman: I always love your posts. What kind of chi are you referring to from masters (which you gobble up)? Are you speaking of the addictive and drug like shakti-put which many gurus use? How has absorbing the chi from masters effected your life long term after the guru meetings you’ve had?

You discuss the dangers of going into a ‘meditation trance’. What is this please? I find that being warned about something I do not understand causes me to experience a bit of fear. How would you suggest avoiding such a trance... after you explain what it is please? Do you know anyone who suffered from a mediation trance? How do you know they are dangerous?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0G-knc3dVw

This is an interesting movie for it explores the idea that the more light we hold, the more darkness we must also be able to face without flinching. And of course, this is also just Hollywood. Perhaps this is what Buddha Boy means when he describes his journey as 'hard'. If you don't know about Budda Boy, here is a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v29clGMWU84 I guess this explores the idea of 'gatekeepers' and somehow we must not flinch when we meet them... or we cannot continue evolving.

[greybeard]

Respectfully Dawn I was not addressing Simon but Amzer as part off an on going conversation on a Simon thread.

One of the obstacles to enlightenment is identification---I am the doer.
I am the mediator, I am meditating, really about controlling.

I come from the context of surrender, as an alcoholic AA taught me to let go and let God
Basically I am sharing what worked for me---and many others.
It may sound arrogant but it comes from personal experience of what has worked.
Through following the advice of others I come from being a suicidal wreck to a place of serenity.

Best wishes to you Dawn

Chris

[Dawn]

Chris (Graybeard), please don't take what I said as an attack. I am truly looking at beliefs and belief systems as they relate to this topic. I really am curious to know whether you thought that all Jinn, etc... are thought forms. I rather suspect that these inhabiting entities are the cause of alcholicism and drug use.

I once met an amazing and compassionate invisible being at an Alanon meeting (for those that don't know AA and NA are for alcohol and drug users, and Alanon is for the enablers they are in relationship with). This being helped me release some big grief ridden thought form (or entity?) and the experience was amazing. I was so very grateful and ... so very surprised. I really hadn't expected such loving help there. It was all done silently after I left the meeting while driving home.

It left me in awe of the AA and Alanon groups for they seem to have invisible help that is very powerful and motivated by love and compassion.

Chris... do you think it is possible that those caught in an unbreakable pattern of drug and alcohol use could be inhabited by or suffering from attachments of entities?

And, by the way I really relate to feeling suicidal in my past. I began to feel that way at age 12. Not only did I feel that way for 40+ years, but I kept seeing myself taking a knife and stabbing my heart... then bleeding to death from the wound. Last October, immediately after my first Skillas session, this stopped. Later he reported to me that he had removed the 'spirit' of a dead French artist who had killed himself that way. This goes in my file of 'weird' but it worked'.

[greybeard]

Dawn put it this way I am aware of the lower astral that takes delight in causing pain and suffering and does target those attempting to make spiritual progress.
However I took advice not to go there, so to speak, to starve these entities of energy by no thinking of them--that gives them power.
The Buddha was beset by demons--Jesus was tempted by the Devil,
I dont make light of these things.
However it is also mind stuff.
Eckhart Tolle calls it pain body and states that it does seem like an entity.
If I get some sensation I dont label it---I dont call it psychic attack or anything.
I full accept there is a feeling.
If I did name it correctly or incorrectly then fear would likely arise and then there would be a real challenge.
As part of my recovery I became a psychotherapist and hypnotherapist--then a bi-aura practitioner also Reiki Master.
So Im sensitive to energy movement in self and others.
I really wanted to fix me first then help others.
The advice on just sitting without technique came from various enlightened masters. Ramana Maharshi, Eckhart Tolle, Adyahanti and Mooji all recommend this.
Will Pm you in a moment Dawn--we are Ok.

With Love
Chris

[Delight]

During her 375 years on earth, Yeshe developed a following of demons who swore fealty to her and are said to continue to serve her here on earth in order to help humans become enlightened.

I wonder what it would mean if this was recontextualized to regard Yeshe's demons as in her mind. She gained the fealty of her own demonic contents of mind that then served her? Buddhism from what I understand is a psychology of the content of mind and liberation from the bindings of mind? My friend who is a serious student uses deities in meditation for the purpose of seeing the qualities within herself.


In Buddhism, demons represent functions of human nature and the environment that bring misery and suffering. These demons and devils—the robbers of life and benefit—are actually the negativity inherent in our lives. They can appear as negative internal feelings and as external influences that try to obstruct our Buddhist practice.

Even in the lives of wonderful bodhisattvas, there is fundamental darkness. Negativity—like death and taxes—is certain to be a part of our lives until our final moments. Subtle negativity, like self-doubt, may be difficult to see as a devilish function, but it most certainly is. It keeps us from recognizing that we are Buddhas, worthy of the highest respect. http://www.sgi-usa.org/memberresources/resources/buddhist_concepts/bc29_devils_demons_in_lotus_sutra.php


There came a period when, while living alone in the wintry cave of Nering Senge, her mate having retreated to warmer climes, that Yeshe Tsogyal began to face all the demons of her mind. Visions rose up before her in the process of her meditations, equal to those of Buddha Sakyamuni beneath the Bodhi-tree, or Christ in the throes of his Temptation, or St. Anthony in the Desert, full of hideous and terrifying intensity. Hordes of phantoms advanced upon her: fearful, seductive, malign, and evil. With these, the product of her own traumatic passions, she wrestled, while remaining unmovable in her vajra-like samadhi, the immutable poise of impartial contemplation. For days the onslaught continued, until finally she was left in peace. This was the trial of her final spiritual catharsis.

Afterwards, at the lonely cave of Paro Taktsang in the highlands of Bhutan, with her consort Atsara Sahle, she disciplined herself through vigorous fasts, long meditation, and the spiritual practice known as karmamudra, so as to blend the refined positive and negative seed essences (bindus) of her heart nerve-plexus (cakra) and branch nervous-systems (nadi), from whence the five major and five secondary bio-energies (vayu) of the living body derive, so as to crystallizing in the whole of her presence the basis of an inner vajra-body. This rigorous blending together of refined nerve substance (the white and red seed essences), and the undoing of the last psychological knots of the heart centre, pertains to the final stage for winning Buddhahood in a single lifetime. Yeshe Tsogyal's retreat at Paro Taktsang would be the last austerity practiced for her own benefit.

In Paro Taktsang after pursuing her goal with incredible diligence, Yeshe Tsogyal attained the level of a world-encompassing Insight holder. Thus she gained the basic stages of Enlightenment.http://www.dharmafellowship.org/biographies/historicalsaints/princess-yeshe-tsogyal.htm

I am following this thread as it means something to me about the direction I want to head about relationship to myself and to "others". People talk quite often about the way we cannot get along with others. My question is "What would be the basis of co-existance with "others"?" My provisional answer is my respect which honors, my friendship that establishes cooperation, my peace that can have no fear.

I cannot help but see this as the Bardo to dissolve all projections into clear light? I cannot see differently today than that our demons look like demons just as in the after death bardo...energies we interpret. This does not negate that Sentience is ubiquitous but my relationships are created by my intentions and whom I see is distorted by my eyes. IMO we are all about seeing what is within as refelcted until we are clear.

What might this proverb of the Gospel of Thomas mean?


70. Jesus said, "If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you. If you do not have that within you, what you do not have within you [will] kill you."

If I make friends of my demons, I will have allies. Why would I not make friends? Because I want an enemy?

[Synchronicity]

I would just add that yes, that light does tend to attract energy to us. When you so shamanic work "they" tend to know and come to you for help more often. When your energy level goes up and the light is more obvious you do attract more...but it isn't necessarily negative and actually is often wonderful and positive if you discount confused or needy "souls" coming for help. But part of learning and training and allowing the brighter light should be learning ways to be safe so that if you do find negatives attracted you can find out why and stay safe. That is why the process isn't generally a week or two...it's over years so that is time to gather tools to stay safe and recognize negative and dangerous energy/beings.

Once again there seems to be an assumption that if we aren't afraid we are ignoring danger or all that has been described here. That makes the assumption that if someone is aware, but isn't afraid and sees the situation in a different way than assuming everyone is possessed and awful beings are around them, then the person must not be aware enough. That just isn't true. Some are irresponsible or don't get the bigger picture and are ignorant not only of the idea of being in danger, but of what to do if they have a problem or how to recognize something attached or negative. That doesn't mean all who see people and life and the universe a different way are ignorant, afraid, wrong, or not evolved. It just means we all are coming from a different background. But hey, I have said this same thing several times in different ways in this thread, so no reason to say it any more. Enjoy :)

[Delight]

I would just add that yes, that light does tend to attract energy to us. When you so shamanic work "they" tend to know and come to you for help more often. When your energy level goes up and the light is more obvious you do attract more...but it isn't necessarily negative and actually is often wonderful and positive if you discount confused or needs "souls" coming for help. But part of learning and training and allowing the brighter light should be learning ways to be safe so that if you do find negatives attracted you can find out why and stay safe. That is why the process isn't generally a week or two...it's over years so that is time to gather tools to stay safe and recognize negative and dangerous energy/beings.

With respect, how does it serve people to perceive in this way? In disowning the "they" we cannot possibly reincorporte the energy. What if "gaining light" or etheric energy enables us to see OUR OWN THOUGHTS more clearly?

There is an old Nasrudin parable that has more than one meaning. He loses a wallet in the dark. He then is seen under a street lamp looking for it and the joke is that he is looking for his wallet "there" as opposed to where he lost it (as there is more light under the street lamp).

Most people just laugh at the absurdity but I see a more deep meaning to me. Who can reall where we lost our thought forms that we created? When is it easier to find them??
Once we start holding more energy or prana through practices, we gain a larger streetlamp circumference and it is then easier to find them. Where we lost them does not matter because they trail us.

So to continue my analogy, the streetlamp is actually symbolic of our light and no matter where we lost our bits, we will see all more clearly through the increased intensity of our light. I met and studied the work of

Dr. Stylianos Atteshlis (Στυλιανός Αττεσλής, known as Daskalos) (1912–1995), a Christian mystic and healer who was born on December 12, 1912 in Cyprus where he spent most of his life.

He like some on this forum was a healer (specializing in broken bones) and helper of souls in and out of body. He was very cognizant of "elementals" of our thought forms which we generate and which remain until no longer energized. Thought forms congregate and people with a similar make up may attract thought forms.


Every thought, emotion and desire creates and transmits an elemental – also called thought-form – that carries on an existence of its own. We create and regenerate two types of elementals. When negative emotion prevails over thought, we have created emotional thought-forms, or desire-thoughts. When our ideas, desires and emotions pass through reason and love, we create reasoned thought-forms, or thought-desires. An elemental can never be destroyed, only disenergized (when no longer fed with etheric vitality). Elementals of a kind collect to form powerful group elementals. If an individual, or a collection of individuals, are vibrating at the same frequency, they will attract such group elementals. Archangels also create elementals (e.g. nature spirits and angels) in the service of the Divine Plan.

Researchers of Truth understand the triadic nature of their subconscious. One chamber of the subconscious contains all the elementals composing our personality. The second chamber is the storehouse of life-giving etheric vitality. The third, and most valued chamber, is that of the Logos and the Holy Spirit.

With appropriate training, we can project and direct etheric vitality from the etheric doubles of the bodies and send it over vast distances, and perform so-called miracles. To do this we can take part of the Mind-substance of etheric vitality, give it form and project it as a mental image, outside both our gross material body and our etheric double.

This happens consciously when we form what we call "thought-desires", but unconsciously when we form "desire-thoughts". Jesus Christ called the latter "deaf and dumb spirits" (Mark 9:25). These two types of thought forms, because they are both living forms, we call "elementals".

Etheric vitality is the "Bread" which comes to us from Heaven. It is the means by which we build, when rendered into elementals, the present day personality. It is also the means of cleansing and purifying the character, which ultimately serves to assimilate our personality into the Inner Self–our Self-aware Soul. http://www.researchersoftruth.org/teachings/elementals
EDIT

I am aware that shamanic work in at least some traditions is like a "wounded healer" who first of all has a healing and/or continues to attract the clients who have similar maladies and that by healing is healed.

It is like and like attracted for the purpose of gaining harmony and coherence IMO. Shaman were never seen doing individual work until recently. They actually were managing the tribal "thought forms". Illness of one person was related to all because of the mind of tribal people is not disconnected (from my studies).

It is a side track to ignore the central message that we are never at a distance from our own created stage. It is much more individual now IMO because we are changing and moving from local/ tribal through individual/psychological to more global/Universal (sort of a pendulum on a larger swing). Those are just words but it feels like the roles of "medicine people" we associate with Shaman is different focused now.

Hypothetically, if there are sentient beings along with us with minds which create elementals like ours (and maybe they do but I suspect theirs are not like ours), I still feel responsible for my experience of them. Let's imagine Djinn?

They may have, are said to have extremes of temperament good bad indifferent too? They may be like us in being vacillating about their intentions towards "others"?

If a human is expecting a "bad" Djinn, he or she will send out a thought form of fear. It will be a destructive thought form as is unloving.
If were a Djinn and met a spewer of negative thought forms, I would run.

But others more angry than I feel and war like might say "This hurts my indignant bone and I would as soon be hung for a sheep as a goat" and retaliate with energy.

The hapless hater is of that frequency, ping goes the elemental congruence and ping ping ping goes the sense of attacked but who started all the fuss? When was it thrown and who threw the dart?

AND look at the kind of culture where the most Djinn hate is found? My research on that culture makes me wonder if the reports are capable of intentional manipulation for Islam.

Thanks so much for letting me share what is important to me Dawn. Best to everyone, Maggie

[Synchronicity]

I really don't understand what you are asking? How does it serve people to perceive that there are indeed many souls, creatures, negative energies, positive ones, lost souls who are looking for help, some who are disturbed or unbalanced and some who are helping beings, to understand that there is both "light" and "dark" and that not all negative is evil, that there is truly evil as well, so therefore to see it, evaluate it the best one can given abilities, guides one knows well that are positive, God if one believes in one, and learns tools to safely work with all of the above instead of fearing all or most of it? Am I misunderstanding what you are asking? I see much, feel much, "know" things can be around and often are. I also have excellent reasons, just as legitimate as those who see those beings/creatures differently than I do, to see them as I do. I deal with many various energies and they aren't all sweetness and milk tea, but I don't see most as evil and I am not afraid to work with someone who has attracted negative energy or even has attachments. It's not calling myself amazing or saying I am always totally right, and I'm not saying that there are no dangers. I'm just still saying that meditation, yoga, and energy work don't have to end up with misery and inhabitants people don't want to have. It does all depend on how you do them.

I have released (with help from those who work with me) some nasty attachments form energy workers who weren't careful and did bring home what they released from others. It can happen and does if one is not very careful. But I have seen many, many people truly healthy and healing from all the practices that I listed above. I am saying is that if a person approaches any technique with fear, the result will be different than if a person approaches it..and life in general...with knowledge of what bad and good things can happen and skills/tools to work through it safely. Bad things can happen getting out of bed, but lying in bed and not rising usually aren't good options, either. There is balance to be found...don't go rushing into things we don't understand or prepare for, but don't hide under the covers afraid we might get sunburned if we peek out from under them and miss all that lovely Vitamin D and living a life. I am not saying anyone here is doing that, but stating it generally.

I probably didn't answer what you were asking and if I didn't I am sorry.

Edit:

I wouldn't disown those who come for help...not sure what you mean there. That is the point...they come for help and if I am able to help I do.

[Delight]

I really don't understand what you are asking?

I was not referring to the whole post...but this part and the highlighted


Quote Posted by Synchronicity (here)
I would just add that yes, that light does tend to attract energy to us. When you so shamanic work "they" tend to know and come to you for help more often. When your energy level goes up and the light is more obvious you do attract more...but it isn't necessarily negative and actually is often wonderful and positive if you discount confused or needs "souls" coming for help. But part of learning and training and allowing the brighter light should be learning ways to be safe so that if you do find negatives attracted you can find out why and stay safe. That is why the process isn't generally a week or two...it's over years so that is time to gather tools to stay safe and recognize negative and dangerous energy/beings.

Please excuse my strong opinions. I may be mistaken YES.
Whatever it looks I believe it will be our shadow we are really seeing and who's to say the other souls are not "us" as I do not know? I have not had your experience and I may be mistaken and I am not asking you change or I cahange opinions!!!

I like not being concerned about the need to be protected from anything because it is all part of me. IMO, my lack of concern and thoughts about protection is my own protection hehe. This IS IMO yet informs what happens and does not happen TO ME and I am 59 so that is pretty nice (meaning I have YEARS left for good times). I have met myself and now she is not my enemy and we are getting friendly now.

Edit


Edit:

I wouldn't disown those who come for help...not sure what you mean there. That is the point...they come for help and if I am able to help I do.

Please excuse the miscommunication!! I am not sure how that was understood. I don't know what that means as I can't recall saying that??

[Synchronicity]

I really don't understand what you are asking?

I was not referring to the whole post...but this part and the highlighted


Quote Posted by Synchronicity (here)
I would just add that yes, that light does tend to attract energy to us. When you so shamanic work "they" tend to know and come to you for help more often. When your energy level goes up and the light is more obvious you do attract more...but it isn't necessarily negative and actually is often wonderful and positive if you discount confused or needs "souls" coming for help. But part of learning and training and allowing the brighter light should be learning ways to be safe so that if you do find negatives attracted you can find out why and stay safe. That is why the process isn't generally a week or two...it's over years so that is time to gather tools to stay safe and recognize negative and dangerous energy/beings.

Please excuse my strong opinions. I may be mistaken YES.
Whatever it looks I believe it will be our shadow we are really seeing and who's to say the other souls are not "us" as I do not know? I have not had your experience and I may be mistaken and I am not asking you change or I cahange opinions!!!

I like not being concerned about the need to be protected from anything because it is all part of me. IMO, my lack of concern and thoughts about protection is my own protection hehe. This IS IMO yet informs what happens and does not happen TO ME and I am 59 so that is pretty nice.

Well, I work with many people who do bring some pretty strong negative energy with them, and I teach/share how to do this work, so ethics and safety are a big part of making sure people are prepared. BUT, I agree with you that the moment I see students' energy shifting to fear is the moment that they are vulnerable. When I ask what thoughts were happening before the shift they always say something they were taught to be afraid of in church or images from movies popped into their heads and shifted the whole experience for them. When they learn to differentiate between scary movies and scary threats from church and what is really in front of them, the fear goes and they are strong and safe again. It isn't denying, but more acknowledging and working through whatever it is whether it is theirs or someone else's.

And I sure can be mistaken and I sure don't have all the answers...I think that is a great way to look at life. And yes, sometimes our shadow is what is going on. That old saying something like, "I don't like what I see of myself in that guy I don't like" is pretty true I think. I don't think constantly about being protected because it's just part of what I do...I think my focus is on protecting the person I am working on more than myself because what I do "comes with" protection. But no need to excuse your opinions..I like that way of looking at it...who knows? Whoever and whatever the case, I agree that not being afraid makes a big difference in what we attract. Thanks for your explanation of what you meant! :)

[markpierre]

Markpierre, Your comments are intriguing. As a person who has done this type of work (balancing and healing people and entities) I am very surprised. You have an amazing gift! OMG. When I hired Dr. Skillas, his team worked for 7.5 hours to clear the first 2 layers, and 7.5 hours to clear the next 2 layers of my field 4 months later. Your statement creates incredulity on my part about your gifts. When I used to work with others my sessions usually were 60 to 90 minutes long. Are you certain you know what you are talking about?

~How do you alter the agreements these entities have with their host?
~How do you heal the entities?
~Do you help the entities move on and evolve or do you just leave them hanging around looking for someone to attach to here in this reality?
~Have you done this with a lot of people and have they had good long term results?
And... perhaps these questions come from a lack of understanding on my part and you have an entirely different view.

Please tell us all more about what you do and how you do it.


7.5 minutes includes a break for a few sips of coffee. Things that prefer shadows avoid light. Including you when you entertain the shadowy and unknown as real and a threat.

Point the entirety of that vast volume of light on those beliefs. Nothing is what you say it is, so if you don't like what you believe, change your mind. It's all contained in and perpetuating your personal fear.
Stop doing that. Or do it until you run out of scary ideas. Borrowed ideas.
Nothing unreal is real. It can't harm you. Arguing with it is also unreal. Do you need to die to find that out? Not this time, unless you insist. Either way, you will find it out.
Consciousness that wallows in the unreal does that until it changes it's mind. If nothing confronts or challenges it, nothing changes. That's been the problem all along.
If you don't confront it in your time, something else will, in it's time. Sometimes confrontation is the demonstration of what is real. Show it some of that. Give it a bowl of soup.
It looks like something that isn't you. There is no such thing as something that isn't you.

The evolution of what isn't real isn't my business. It's asking however awkwardly for the same thing you are. Love and certainty. To 'get real'.
Offer it your love, if you have enough to spare. If you don't have enough, that's the issue at hand. That's easy to address. Don't do anything else. Stop doing whatever isn't that.
Anywhere love and certainty aren't apparent, IS NOT REALITY.

What's whole, I can address immediately. We meet in the light of reason. The outcomes aren't my business either. Who is qualified to measure 'results'? The results are what are chosen.
Lots of happier people. I wouldn't want to be blamed for that. Give credit where credit is due. You can't be sick and happy at the same time. They're hopefully out there propagating happiness in others. I wouldn't want credit for when they return to unhappy.

I don't heal anything outside of myself, do you? People that make an identity or a living out of it are inclined to forget that.
They're also inclined to forget that when they entertain the unreal in you, they aid in making it seem real. You can chant or hold meetings in the astral, or slap fish together or anything you think is convincing. Make sure it's convincing. That you are convinced, so that healing is convincing.
Remember that in being a practitioner, you need problems to heal. Both of those are invented, but for what purpose?

Agreements are between you and your Godself. Decide what you will and won't allow. You can always change your mind.

That's more clarification and repetition than I'd generally bother with. Kindly don't ask for more.

[Synchronicity]

I really don't understand what you are asking?

I was not referring to the whole post...but this part and the highlighted


Quote Posted by Synchronicity (here)
I would just add that yes, that light does tend to attract energy to us. When you so shamanic work "they" tend to know and come to you for help more often. When your energy level goes up and the light is more obvious you do attract more...but it isn't necessarily negative and actually is often wonderful and positive if you discount confused or needs "souls" coming for help. But part of learning and training and allowing the brighter light should be learning ways to be safe so that if you do find negatives attracted you can find out why and stay safe. That is why the process isn't generally a week or two...it's over years so that is time to gather tools to stay safe and recognize negative and dangerous energy/beings.

Please excuse my strong opinions. I may be mistaken YES.
Whatever it looks I believe it will be our shadow we are really seeing and who's to say the other souls are not "us" as I do not know? I have not had your experience and I may be mistaken and I am not asking you change or I cahange opinions!!!

I like not being concerned about the need to be protected from anything because it is all part of me. IMO, my lack of concern and thoughts about protection is my own protection hehe. This IS IMO yet informs what happens and does not happen TO ME and I am 59 so that is pretty nice (meaning I have YEARS left for good times). I have met myself and now she is not my enemy and we are getting friendly now.

Edit


Edit:

I wouldn't disown those who come for help...not sure what you mean there. That is the point...they come for help and if I am able to help I do.

Please excuse the miscommunication!! I am not sure how that was understood. I don't know what that means as I can't recall saying that??

I don't know..I was getting confused and possibly misunderstood what you referring to with
In disowning the "they" we cannot possibly reincorporte the energy

But I came back to say that you made me realize something important right in the middle of my supper salad! I know why I'm not afraid and why I don't see evil all over or things with people as something to fear or fear for myself. I see everything in the universe as connected...a web of life that includes everything creature and all of nature..all of earth, all of the rest of creation, the universe(s), and anything else that exists or has existed, or even will exist as one. So yes, is it all part of me? Am I part of it? Yes...so none of it is totally foreign or bizarre, and since I have felt that way all my life and saw/felt/knew/heard things all my life, to me they are normal and just part of life. I used to be confused when others didn't see those things or know they had guides with them, things influencing them, and then over time I kind of figured it out a bit more as I grew up.

So wow...yes, that is it. Thanks, Delight, for reminding me of that and helping me realize why I work the way I do and think the way I do. :)

[Shezbeth]

Things that prefer shadows avoid light. Including you when you entertain the shadowy and unknown as real and a threat.

This is both consistent and contrary to my experience. The light and the dark are/will always be attracted to and repelled by one another, and will act upon one another as is their nature which is (regardless of actual form of expression) to attempt assimilation/growth (light increases its self while dark decreases, and vice versa) but results in universal homogeneity (ultimately). As such, though minimally conscious of the process (if at all) the expressions (individuals) of either polarity will be drawn to other consistent expressions (like individuals) AND confronted with antithetical expressions (contrary individuals) insomuch as their environment allows, admitting that it is theoretically possible to eliminate the antithetical (or the consistent) expressions potentiality depending on one's organization of their reality.


I don't heal anything outside of myself, do you? [...] That you are convinced, so that healing is convincing.

So would I be correct in reiterating your earlier claim of: 7.5min = Healing Time +3x
would be more accurately stated as: 7.5min = Convincing Time +3x
where x = Time for sips of coffee?

... in recognition that through entrainment the healing is generated in the recipient. Not knocking - or contesting - your efficacy, merely clarifying that what occurs is the development of conviction of efficacy in the recipient, which is just a different way of describing the same phenomenon. Simply put, both are occurring; you are entraining (authorizing) another in 7.5, and they are being entrained (authorized) in 7.5, as the presence of one is evidence of the other, depending on subjective/objective perspective; That, where authorization = changing the reality (perception).

7.5 is doable, in the same sense that a most willing (as opposed to willful) recipient can be done instantaneously. One's average then depends on how 'murky' the water is, as the least willing are often the most in need.

Edit: I could go further by saying that confrontation between two antithetical expressions is a willful contest, whereas entrainment/healing between two such is a willing confluence.

[Dawn]

Delight: Quote Posted by Dawn (here)
During her 375 years on earth, Yeshe developed a following of demons who swore fealty to her and are said to continue to serve her here on earth in order to help humans become enlightened.
I wonder what it would mean if this was recontextualized to regard Yeshe's demons as in her mind. She gained the fealty of her own demonic contents of mind that then served her? Buddhism from what I understand is a psychology of the content of mind and liberation from the bindings of mind? My friend who is a serious student uses deities in meditation for the purpose of seeing the qualities within herself.

Quote In Buddhism, demons represent functions of human nature and the environment that bring misery and suffering. These demons and devils—the robbers of life and benefit—are actually the negativity inherent in our lives. They can appear as negative internal feelings and as external influences that try to obstruct our Buddhist practice.

Even in the lives of wonderful bodhisattvas, there is fundamental darkness. Negativity—like death and taxes—is certain to be a part of our lives until our final moments. Subtle negativity, like self-doubt, may be difficult to see as a devilish function, but it most certainly is. It keeps us from recognizing that we are Buddhas, worthy of the highest respect. http://www.sgi-usa.org/memberresourc...otus_sutra.php
Quote There came a period when, while living alone in the wintry cave of Nering Senge, her mate having retreated to warmer climes, that Yeshe Tsogyal began to face all the demons of her mind. Visions rose up before her in the process of her meditations, equal to those of Buddha Sakyamuni beneath the Bodhi-tree, or Christ in the throes of his Temptation, or St. Anthony in the Desert, full of hideous and terrifying intensity. Hordes of phantoms advanced upon her: fearful, seductive, malign, and evil. With these, the product of her own traumatic passions, she wrestled, while remaining unmovable in her vajra-like samadhi, the immutable poise of impartial contemplation. For days the onslaught continued, until finally she was left in peace. This was the trial of her final spiritual catharsis.

I am very grateful you took the time to post here Delight. It has been about 7-8 years since I read about Yeshe. It occurred to me last week that it is time to re-read her biography and that there are gifts in there for me now. I had to let go of her book when I moved 3 years ago... so I re-ordered it as my first Kindle book for my new little 'PaperWhiteKindle'. It just arrived in the mail today and I expect to enjoy re-reading the story of Yeshe's life.

I think it is interesting that I was only able to understand her agreements with demons... and not her integration with them. Perhaps it will be different for me now.

Perhaps this may explain my current experience in life. I have not understood why I totally stopped all forms of healing several years ago. When people come for 'help' I teach them the simple form of Ho Op'ono Op'ono that I was taught... then I send them on their way.

Yet, with all the talk of how it is all one... I still notice that visitors to my tiny home sometimes leave what act like entities on their way out. My partner and I always recognize these 'strangers' and take action to move them out. Perhaps they are all us. And in a way, if I allow myself to enjoy expanding beyond any sense of being human, as I do in meditation, this is correct. But for every day living I still experience them as 'other than' the energy I normally have around and within my body so I boot them out of intimate contact with me.

There is also a cemetery just down the hill about 200 feet from our little house. Sometimes I get visitors here which seem to be associated with that place. I recognize them by a sudden energy or emotional change that arrives without any reason. When I recognize what is going on I usually tell them to leave and I can actually feel them peeling away... then, like magic, the strange energy or emotion vanishes.

From the buddhist perspective it appears that these would all be considered me. And I can look forward to incorporating them all within myself as (or if) I progress someday.

[Dawn]

Markpierre: I don't heal anything outside of myself, do you? People that make an identity or a living out of it are inclined to forget that.
They're also inclined to forget that when they entertain the unreal in you, they aid in making it seem real. You can chant or hold meetings in the astral, or slap fish together or anything you think is convincing. Make sure it's convincing. That you are convinced, so that healing is convincing.
Remember that in being a practitioner, you need problems to heal. Both of those are invented, but for what purpose?

Agreements are between you and your Godself. Decide what you will and won't allow. You can always change your mind.

That's more clarification and repetition than I'd generally bother with. Kindly don't ask for more.

So, do you see all as one with yourself? Does this mean that everyone you ever speak with is instantly healed of all miss-thinking, all illness, and so on? Or are you separate from others and therefore you do not see any imbalance or mis-thinking in them as a part of yourself, for you are not them?

When I used to do healing it was after I realized that everyone WAS me... so if 'another' asked for help I could balance them just as I balanced myself... with ease. It took a while to realize that I should NEVER touch what appeared to be 'another' unless asked by them, for they were playing their own game.

Still... I never could truly help anyone make permanent changes in their consciousness without looking at the patterns and unwinding the energy vortexes affecting them. Does telling other people the truth you spoke of cause permanent change in everyone you speak to? Or do others change when they are in your presence, perhaps because you so deeply know the truth you speak of?

I still am amazed at your claim that 7.5 minutes permanently changes and heals anyone you work on. I've heard there are some on the planet like this... are you saying you are one of them?

[markpierre]

7.5 is doable, in the same sense that a most willing (as opposed to willful) recipient can be done instantaneously. One's average then depends on how 'murky' the water is, as the least willing are often the most in need.


Well said. But I don't spend any time with the unwilling. They don't show up.

It's really sit down, have a cup of coffee, get up. Around 7-8 minutes depending on the temp of the milk.

[markpierre]

Markpierre: I don't heal anything outside of myself, do you? People that make an identity or a living out of it are inclined to forget that.
They're also inclined to forget that when they entertain the unreal in you, they aid in making it seem real. You can chant or hold meetings in the astral, or slap fish together or anything you think is convincing. Make sure it's convincing. That you are convinced, so that healing is convincing.
Remember that in being a practitioner, you need problems to heal. Both of those are invented, but for what purpose?

Agreements are between you and your Godself. Decide what you will and won't allow. You can always change your mind.

That's more clarification and repetition than I'd generally bother with. Kindly don't ask for more.


So, do you see all as one with yourself? Does this mean that everyone you ever speak with is instantly healed of all miss-thinking, all illness, and so on? Or are you separate from others and therefore you do not see any imbalance or mis-thinking in them as a part of yourself, for you are not them?

Okay. This is what I didn't want.

That was kind of a strange statement. But then you answer it with When I used to do healing it was after I realized that everyone WAS me... so if 'another' asked for help I could balance them just as I balanced myself... with ease. That I can address; you're right.
And you don't really need this, I think you know what you're on to. If it's just a challenge, go elsewhere.
There's a 'self' that is experiencing the process, and a Self that is guiding it. There's a 'self' that has questions, and therefore doesn't seem to contain the answers. And a Self that has answers, though views questions as irrelevant. Which one of you is soliciting a response from which one of me? The questioning 'you' won't accept answers from anything other than the You that knows. Go there for answers.

Healing and balance doesn't require dialogue or proximity. It does seem to require agreement. You can give seeming others the experience of being loved and worthy, by loving them, which is an automatic effect of accepting yourself. You've plugged yourself back in to what's always been available. It doesn't correct anything, because nothing is broken. It was simply resisted. It corrects your perception of them. You can demonstrate that temporarily for yourself by putting your hands on them. Or pins. Whatever works for you. A healer fixing problems is still in a process. I don't know of any effective healers who aren't aware of that. The process is bigger than 'I've got mine, let them get theirs', so we participate more generally. Having healing skills or a lot of energy is not a measure of wakefulness. It's actually just normal. Becoming aware of them is a step. Not an achievement, just keeping agreements with ourselves.
It isn't who can, it's who will. Another step. That's their evolution.
It's like that with what appears as the most pathetic and 'needy' as well. Who declared Mind acting out it's will can be needful of anything?

That 'one with yourself' is an experience of Reality. What you 'see' in the sense you're inferring isn't. It's sensory. It's illusion. Don't confuse the two or compromise. That's for anyone confused about what 'oneness' is.
We are one single simultaneous multifaceted experience. It's actually true. All of it is you. The experience will likely leave you without words. Or the need for them.

That's where errant thinking and illness perpetuate themselves, and why it's so simple to correct. I'm an Eternal Spirit but I still have to pay the bills? isn't very willing. 'I want that question answered!' It makes it tediously slow. You've never paid your bills on your own.
No one will 'experience' healing or union until they want that more than sickness or separation. It takes whatever it takes. Band-Aids won't fix it.
Thankfully the conscious mind has little to do with that choice.

Go upstairs. That's where all the willing participation is. If you know yourSelf, you know who and what is in front of you.

7.5 minutes was a joke. It doesn't take that long.

[The Truth Is In There]

i'd like to add a tiny little bit that i've learned.

the entire creation is always in balance. any part of it that is unbalanced (either positive or negative) strives toward balance.

what that means with regard to our lives and experiences is that taken all lives together (not "future" or "past" lives because there is no time, only now) we're in balance. if during one life we take more than we give it will be balanced in another life in which we have to give more than we take.

this explains why some people we know have easy lives, others hard ones. it also explaines the "contracts" and all these things we seem to have made in "past" lives which in this life give us troubles or benefits.

walter russell (the only fully illumined person of our age that i'm aware of. he reached partial illumination each year since his 7th birthday and full illumination during a 39-day period in 1921) explains many of these things and more in his books. i highly recommend his "home study course" (available in pdf format from some websites) to anyone who wants to get rid of any last traces of "victim mentality" or whatever you want to call it. we ourselves are the cause for everything that happens in our lives, nobody and nothing else.

[Dawn]

TheTruthIsInThere: walter russell (the only fully illumined person of our age that i'm aware of. he reached partial illumination each year since his 7th birthday and full illumination during a 39-day period in 1921) explains many of these things and more in his books. i highly recommend his "home study course" (available in pdf format from some websites) to anyone who wants to get rid of any last traces of "victim mentality" or whatever you want to call it. we ourselves are the cause for everything that happens in our lives, nobody and nothing else.

Through private messages Gray Beard and I have been discussing 'enlightenment' and various GURUS and TEACHERS who seem 'there'

I think this is ultimately true... however there is a question 'How about all of the Blood?' This is another way of saying, if it is all one, and everything is perfect, then how about all of the suffering?

Here's another way to ask the same sort of question, "If it is all one how can ONE person become illuminated when the rest of humanity and the shared Human Consciousness is not?"

And finally... if anyone here truly sees this then why are you a member of Avalon?

I think we are all here because of the 'blood' and because of the 'suffering' which we are a part of... because we are currently experiencing the human condition. And in light of this... is there a 'Jinn condition'?

A famous Zen master (Sorry, can't remember the name) was in a discussion with a student.
Zen Master, "Who are You"
Student, "I am Oneness, and I am the Great Emptiness, I am the Self which is all'
Zen Master.... strikes student HARD with his stick
Student, "Ouch! Why did you do that?"
Zen Master, "If you are what you say then what was that?"

The student forgot to look at the simple fact that he now has a body and is experiencing separation and being one of the many individual things (which may be created from the Oneness but which are... still apparently separate)

There are 2 sides to the coin of enlightenment...
one side is emptiness and oneness...
and the other side is a glorious display of separation and differences....

And I suppose that brings us back to this discussion of Jinn

[greybeard]

There is nothing which is not God.
A good description is "Form,formless, both and neither"
Beyond description or understanding by the mind.
Yet we get pleasure in discussing.

Nice chatting with you Dawn.

Its a great thread.

Love Chris

[Shezbeth]

Well said. But I don't spend any time with the unwilling. They don't show up.

I am sorry Mark, I can recognize the possibility that you are as authoritative (in reference to competence, etc.) as you claim, but your words belie that probability.

Am I to understand that anyone who doesn't essentially show up having done the work for you (all but 8 minutes that is) isn't adequately willing? Some of the most willing and most in need require far more than a sit down to resolve their issues. In many cases, they need far more in order to even recognize that they want/need resolution. Have you ever experienced a person who's actions were in opposition to their professed intent? As I already said, the willful contest IS the willing confluence, at the opposite end of the 'will'/expression scale. They are the same, expressed from opposite perspectives.

Lets take the subject of self-destructive behavior, just as an example. Many who engage in such behaviors are not consciously aware of it, and are often very resistant to recognize the behaviors for what they are (IME, with a wealth of rationalizations) for psychological reasons. Even after recognizing such behaviors it can take days, weeks, months, even years to help them to process the experiences from which such behaviors manifest.

It is easy for one person to describe another as being unwilling. I suggest that you express yourself as one who is unwilling, of a polar opposite - and yet simultaneously equatable - nature. You say that there is an unwilling party? I find that there are two, that the perception of unwillingess is ITS SELF a manifestation of uwillingness in the perceiver.

I have found (not exhaustively) that the most adequate, effective, competent, and thorough healers/entrainers/practicioners are those who operate at the threshold between the light and the dark. The 'mechanics' involved pertain to such an individual's ability to critically analyze/assess without convicted preconception or judgement. Further, one at such a position can unbiassedly assist the recipient in whichever direction they are desiring to progress (not everyone seeks to go from the dark to the light). At the balanced threshold one can entrain (or be entrained) in either/any direction, without being convicted to a particular polarity. Additionally there is never a preconception of 'goodness' or 'vileness' (or any other descriptive) as they recognize the balance of both forces operating within and without.

What does this have to do with the topic at hand you might ask? Simple!

If one is adequately balanced one will naturally and even involuntarily entrain balance in others, be they humans, ETs, Djinn, etc. I'm not saying that a balanced individuals will not experience unbalanced individuals, quite the opposite actually. When one is neither the willful nor willing opponent - indeed refusing to oppose - ONLY then can one adequately encourage/assist, and only then can one appreciate the degree to which willful and willing are different expressions of the same phenomenon.

But who am I to say? I'm just some douche on an internet forum! :smokin:

[markpierre]

'Willing' is relative to you. They show up when you do.

[Synchronicity]

There is nothing which is not God.
A good description is "Form,formless, both and neither"
Beyond description or understanding by the mind.
Yet we get pleasure in discussing.

Nice chatting with you Dawn.

Its a great thread.

Love Chris

Well, that would depend on the person's perspective, I would think. To some there is nothing which is not God and that works for them, but once again there are many ways to see the universe. To some there is not God, but a consciousness that is Universe, and to others God(s) by a different name, and to some there is simply an amazing universe that includes any other universes, dimensions, and whatever else is, that can be appreciated for being just that. It's probably a good thing that we aren't all just alike I think...plenty of ways to look at things. :)

[greybeard]

Different experiences, different perspectives, different names, different words, different ways of expressing--all emanating from the same place--I suspect.

Chris

[minkton]

I was told that if you read the energy of a djinn you find fog , or smoke. Completely yin.

An extreme end of the energy spectrum.

[RunningDeer]

I was told that if you read the energy of a djinn you find fog , or smoke. Completely yin.

An extreme end of the energy spectrum.

This philosophy comes to mind about extreme ends of energy spectrum and the importance of balance in all things. Whether or even if that 'fog' is extreme yin that flips to yang force, my goal is the same. Increase my frequently beyond the duality game of light/dark, yin/yang.


http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Photoshop/yin-yang.GIF



"...Qi, as all things, comes from the Dao. Qi is in everything. It consists of 3 parts: Energy, matter, and information. Qi, with these three parts tells our senses (the five and the sixth) what is happening around us. We know what a table looks like because it is a physical thing, i.e. matter. We know this because that information is sent to our bodily senses by the table’s energy. Therefore we can understand the things that are. Where there is nothing, meaning emptiness, there is no qi. There is no qi there because there is no matter, information and energy. When something living dies, it looses its qi. However the remaining body has its own qi because it is still matter..."

There are four distinct rules that describe the yin/yang.
1) Yin is never without yang and visa versa.
2) Within yang, there is yin and visa versa. They are infinitely divisible.
3) When yang becomes extreme, it will turn into yin, and visa versa.
4) Yin/yang are in a constant cycle. 



A constant cycle means that when something goes to the extreme, it’s opposite starts to grow. Take a look, when the dark area reaches its extreme, the white area starts to grow. Because of this philosophy, this symbol is called “tai ji”, which directly translated means “too extreme”. This indicates the two ends of the spectrum. The Dao is everything and nothing, it embodies the two extremes. The dark extreme is absent of color because there is no light. At the other extreme are all the colors are combine to make white.

[complete article here (http://www.weituoqigong.org/philosophy.htm)]

[minkton]

What it means is that djinn crave a physical body to inhabit, or influence...because a physical body is yang, inherently, by its very existence.

It means that a person who has a soul which is extreme yin, is likely to have strong physical effects on those receptive.. so may be experienced as very sexual and influential in the real of physical sensation, excitement, anxiety..

A person with a physical body will react physically to extreme yin, because extreme yin is in polar opposite to physicality. Opposites interact.

If we have unconscious yin, we may be more drawn to yin forces, also.

Extreme yin will contract yang until it no longer has power.

[Shezbeth]

I was told that if you read the energy of a djinn you find fog , or smoke. Completely yin.
An extreme end of the energy spectrum.

Care to elaborate on the source of this information, if readily available?

Your admission - unless you are deliberately being facetious - admits that the information is second hand at best. Have you considered that the information might be inaccurate, and/or have you acted to validate such a claim?

I claim from my own non-exhaustive experience that the Djinn are no different than humans in regards to dispositional polarity (i.e. light and/or dark spectrum). To claim that they have a fixed and rigid nature is to claim that humans have a fixed and rigid nature; Are humans completely yang, at an extreme end?

I'm not saying there aren't extreme-spectrum humans - quite the contrary - and so it is with Djinn. There are light and dark polarities AMONG them, and perhaps even an observable predominance insomuch as Earth is concerned.

Oh yes, the Djinn are not limited to nor exclusively operant/interested on/in Earth. Additionally, they have a hierarchy not dissimilar to the power structures observable in humans, in that there is an 'elite oligarchy' of sorts at the top, on down a comparable pyramidal structure. Granted, those at the top and their subordinates get all the attention, and are principally responsible for the negative publicity and perception.

Imagine if the human elite achieved their immortality and were allowed to oppress, dictate, and reign amongst humans indefinitely and relatively unchecked? As below, so above. I do not contest that the individual you spoke of observed 'very yin, extreme' Djinn as they are the MOST operant in this dimension, having the greatest abundance of 'resources', 'technology', etc. (insomuch as one can regard them as resources and technology), but just as my experience is neither all encompassing nor exhaustive, so it is with your source. ^_~

Simply - I recommend not attempting to tar them with the same brush.

[Delight]

If people feel free to make up opinions, on what should be base them? I have met Djinn only in my imagination but there they have variety and have been hurt deeply by the same antithesis of life :evil
How do we know what is true/ IMO by how it feels. What is true feels nurturing and will lead to a good day.
Here is what my imaginary friend says:

"Djinn may come and go between the rain drops and the sun beams and even if we have a chat with Djinn, all evidence is usually gone in a heart beat. Most people who meet one do forget.

Djinn and humans used to be very good friends but the priests of the God of Evil interfered. Djinn are now mostly outside of contact with Humans. Before they can be freed, someone has to come along and change the story being broadcast so the humans will agree to let them be known. Humans have been used to thinking bad thoughts towards the Djinn...told they are evil (especially the muslims), mixed up with demons who are the appearance of the bad thoughts humans create. This has been pitiable for both sides.

The reason humans and Djinn are not so different is that Djinn are the pure thoughts of Sol personified so also creative. Both have suffered from bad ideas.

"We used to come and go, work side by side to manifest Sol's grand ideas. The Djinn raised monolithic architecture and we still are the holders of the sacred geometries. We cannot work without humans. So we have been really idle in the world. Once in a while someone like Edward Leedskalnin is willing to let us be friends again. George Washington Carver and some others also knew us. There were others all along who knew better but mostly slander keeping us from one another. Djinn have also been personally tricked and enslaved by betrayals. There is a need for bilateral forgiveness of mistakes.

"The Djinn may be just as prejudiced against humans and our peaceful rapprochement is what the Universe wishes."

"Djinn are just as creative as you, in our way fabulous at translating the solar ideals. You could use some of our skills. What we desire is your love and devotion as friends. Isn't that what everyone really desires? Not being subjugated or put on a pedestal or demonized...just to be friends?"

[minkton]

All the very best to you all.

[Synchronicity]

Hmm...I think I see why I don't really feel the whole concept of djinn and why I don't have fear or welcome or anything related to the idea. They seem to be a religious construct and just don't resonate with me. But then, I don't believe really in hell or heaven, either, except what we make for ourselves, so that explains also why I have been a bit confused. I know different names can be used for the same beings and so forth, but I just don't have that frame of reference. I understand more now and appreciate the explanation. :)

[Sirius White]

...........................................

[onawah]

Excellent post!
Even to understand just this, on a deep level, is a solid basis for wisdom.
It doesn't have to be complicated...
Thank you!



This philosophy comes to mind about extreme ends of energy spectrum and the importance of balance in all things. Whether or even if that 'fog' is extreme yin that flips to yang force, my goal is the same. Increase my frequently beyond the duality game of light/dark, yin/yang.

"...Qi, as all things, comes from the Dao. Qi is in everything. It consists of 3 parts: Energy, matter, and information. Qi, with these three parts tells our senses (the five and the sixth) what is happening around us. We know what a table looks like because it is a physical thing, i.e. matter. We know this because that information is sent to our bodily senses by the table’s energy. Therefore we can understand the things that are. Where there is nothing, meaning emptiness, there is no qi. There is no qi there because there is no matter, information and energy. When something living dies, it looses its qi. However the remaining body has its own qi because it is still matter..."

There are four distinct rules that describe the yin/yang.
1) Yin is never without yang and visa versa.
2) Within yang, there is yin and visa versa. They are infinitely divisible.
3) When yang becomes extreme, it will turn into yin, and visa versa.
4) Yin/yang are in a constant cycle. 



A constant cycle means that when something goes to the extreme, it’s opposite starts to grow. Take a look, when the dark area reaches its extreme, the white area starts to grow. Because of this philosophy, this symbol is called “tai ji”, which directly translated means “too extreme”. This indicates the two ends of the spectrum. The Dao is everything and nothing, it embodies the two extremes. The dark extreme is absent of color because there is no light. At the other extreme are all the colors are combine to make white.

[complete article here (http://www.weituoqigong.org/philosophy.htm)]

[Catsquotl]

I was told that if you read the energy of a djinn you find fog , or smoke. Completely yin.

An extreme end of the energy spectrum.

This philosophy comes to mind about extreme ends of energy spectrum and the importance of balance in all things. Whether or even if that 'fog' is extreme yin that flips to yang force, my goal is the same. Increase my frequently beyond the duality game of light/dark, yin/yang.


The Yin/Yang thoughtform is not about duality.
Its a way to describe phenomena. Taken out of contect the above 4 distinct rules can be easily misunderstood.
Sayin fog is Yin to the extreme/completely yin is impossible. Look at rule 1 and 2.
Also it left a rule that aplies to living things.. when a yin/yang imbalance becomes to extreme. Yin and Yang will sepperate and that expression of life will seize to exist.

Rule 3 is true in a sence, but from a phenomelogic point of view. This wil usually not happen at random but at very specific times/stages of a cycle.
Like summer(yang within yang/extreme yang), fall(yin within yang) winter(yin within yin/extreme yin) or spring(yang within yin).

Also one cannot say something is yin. or something is yang.
Yin and yang only exist in relation to each othere. So fall is yin compared to summer, but yang when compared to winter.

With Love
Eelco
ps Qi in its most literal translation i.m.o is "Basic Stuff"

[minkton]

Good luck to everyone here.

[Dawn]

Quote Posted by Dawn (here)

Sirius White: Bull****.

Unless you do it irresponsibly, haven't cleansed your body or energy centers, and invite them in.

Very common lingo though among the religious types.
Excuse me? Would you please explain your carefully thought out post so that the rest of us can understand you. This is a discussion and tossing in emotional grenades are not welcome here. I am giving you a courteous reply to a post from you that does not appear to be courteous at all. If you are not able to participate as a contributor in this discussion group, so that we can all benefit from your knowledge and experience, please refrain from posting on this thread. If you actually have something to contribute I am very interested in seeing it.
Now- let me start with this. I am very aware of the topic of "jinns" or "demons" "ET's" and "interdimensional beings." I do not like the term Jinns because it narrows down the idea of what they are too a religious (middle-eastern) belief, just as I don't like the term demons.

In fact- they have come after me all my life. Why? I'm only beginning to figure it out. I have had visitations by at least a handful of beings in the past two months alone, always trying to get into a chakra, or implant something there, or worse (they are now screwing with my health). Some of it has to do with my broadcast range of thoughts, in particular what I know and what I am learning. I have been very vocal about it, and am never set in stone- always evolving personal paradigms and thinking multi-dimensionally.

Hi Sirus. I am so thankful that you spent time posting here. Thank you.

I would like to tell you that Avalon encourages everyone who posts to use the QUOTE feature wich shows as a sort of cartoon type box in the tools above the active posting area. I did not put any words in the box that you did not write... in fact the quote is the entirety of the first post you made here.

Now that I have answered you about this topic I'd like to say that I found your latest post stellar!

I can honestly tell you that I have had the experience you write about.... and that is why I created this thread. I wanted a way for people on Avalon to look at this situation.

In the past couple of months I have read quite a bit about mind control in the USA. I have begun to wonder if I was a TI for a number of years when I lived in the Silicon Valley. I have seen maps showing a dense cluster of known TIs there, which seem to be related to the nearby GWEN towers. Since moving south to the Central Coast area of California I have had no difficulties with what you are mentioning.... other than the occasional thought form or hungry ghost trying to attach for a quick meal. The nearest GWEN tower is about 200+ miles away from here. It seems that the TI phenomenon clusters around these towers which is a strong indication that they are being used for mind control experiments on the USA population.

I have done a great deal of energy balancing work over my life. A short list would include yoga, Zen meditation, somatic experiencing, Sedona Method, Reiki, Access Consciousness, etc, etc, etc. None of this calmed down my fairly continuous experience of scary psychic phenomena. This phenomena included seeing other-dimensional beings shaped like demons, snakes, angels, smoke, elves, fairies, and all manner of other worldly strange things. It also included hearing voices saying frightening things, and occasionally a booming male voice similar to the 'voice of God' idea.

What eventually worked was leaving all that I knew and moving to a new area by myself. So here I am now, living in a tiny little tourist beach town in a shabby old trailer. Here I am at peace and happy.

And, as I mentioned... I still have occasional other-dimensional visitors, however they do not stay long.

[Chester]

I went to an "energy worker" a few times in 2001. Each time I ended up having an extremely difficult next 24 - 48 hours. I always thought that was odd. I also thought, "what if what I did was open myself up to external energies (entities) that I may not quite prepared for."

Now, in defense of the energy worker, I was not in the best shape at that time of my life as I was hooked on alcohol, marijuana and cocaine. Still... to read your OP, Dawn and looking back to that experience... it reminds me of Bill's advice regarding "ayahuasca shamanic journeying." I wanted to do that but fortunately, sometimes I actually listen to those who I trust and respect. I am glad (so far) that I have.

[Dawn]

I'm glad I created this post, because the input from all of you has allowed me to leave behind my attempts to understand the 1000's of strange occurrences I have been a part of and a witness to. I still do not understand fully the many things I've seen and been included in. Why me? Why are some people psychic and others not? I think it is something unusual about my body and perhaps it is from the bloodlines this body came from.

It is valuable for us all to look at this information and to combine our knowledge of it IMHO. It seems that this topic affects us, whether we can see it or not. In our discussion here IMHO we faced our fear of the unknown and of the 'shadow'... maybe it is 'our' shadow.

TPTB May Use Jinn to Control Us
In the Bartimaeus Trilogy there is mention that all politicians, and all people in power can see and work with Jinn. This Book series was recommended to me by a 'master' who had this ability himself. In the same series there is mention that only occasionally in history can the 'common people' see Jinn. When these time periods occur TPTB temporarily lose control of the masses and their positions of power. However they regain this power once the era is over and ordinary people lose the ability to see how TPTB wield their powers. I was interested to find that Simon Parks, a treasured member here on Avalon, mentions that he has some guardian Jinn and also says ,"This is normal for illuminati". Seems that Simon's understanding dovetails with what is presented in the 'fiction' series Bartimaeus. (link to books here: http://www.amazon.com/Bartimaeus-3-book-boxed-set-Trilogy/dp/1423136829/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396721528&sr=8-1&keywords=bartemaus+trilogy)


Still... to read your OP, Dawn and looking back to that experience... it reminds me of Bill's advice regarding "ayahuasca shamanic journeying." I wanted to do that but fortunately, sometimes I actually listen to those who I trust and respect. I am glad (so far) that I have.

Thank you for your post above justoneman.

It Is NOT About the Effect of Drugs!
I would like to make it clear that nothing happened after my trip to Peru and after attending ayahuasca ceremonies. My adventures began when my 3rd eye opened up in 1978 ... without the use of any drugs. In fact I have never been interested in drugs or alcohol in this lifetime.... an amazing thing considering I was in high school and college in the '60s.

This means that drugs and alcohol are not the only path into becoming aware of other worlds which exists alongside and intermingled with ours. And I appreciate everyone who helped me look at this situation in this thread.

[Chester]

Hi Dawn, I feel I have a "guardian Djinn" (or something. The odds are high it is a Djinn especially based on some uncanny recently experienced synchronicities.

Also, I looked up what Islam had to say regarding the Djinn and when I read what I read, I took the "side" of the Djinn. How can on one hand "god" give free will to a race of beings and then command them to bow down to another race of beings? If they were truly given free will, shouldn't the other race (as well as the Djinn) be allowed to earn the respect of each other? If I were "god" that's the way I would want it (but I am not "god").

Still, I take the side of the Djinn on this one. That does not mean I excuse the segment of the Djinn that may have mal-intentions towards humanity (or any creation of "god" for that matter) but so should the same be for humanity and frankly, the way we handle our food supply is perhaps why we have predatory beings after us. Apologies I dipped into opinion.

As for the "drug" thing - we are all different. When I was young I was able to experience excellent (clean) LSD, mushrooms and peyote. Marijuana also entered my life and I loved it (day and night). I then added alcohol into the mix and eventually cocaine. I barely survived. So when I made the above statement, I was coming from a point of view that is "post" massive drug intake. So in a case like mine, Bill's advice might have a great deal of merit. Now take David Icke for example. Other than booze (which alone can be quite dangerous - they don't call it 'spirits' for no reason), David never took any drugs. So when he did his ayahuasca journey, he was probably pretty clean at the level of his soul and had a good trip.

I would hate to recommend that to someone who had an unforeseen opening to the darker spirits and I believe that's the view Bill shared.

Anyways... I was just sharing thoughts and experiences. Adding on and not negating.

[Dawn]

I agree with every word you shared justoneman. Not only that, but I always listen carefully to people who have their own personal experience to share, for this is the way to acquiring wisdom, rather than simple knowledge.

Lester Levenson, father of the Sedona Method, used to tell his students to stay away from drinking establishments, to the point of crossing the street in order NOT to walk by the entrance of such. Lester said these places were filled with entities looking to inhabit people who drank, and proximity to such establishments were an invitation to becoming infected with such entities.

I think you and Bill are correct, that drugs can invite possessions. My comment above was about MY personal experience... not about anyone else. I was deep in the Amazon jungle when I used ayahuasca, many miles from human civilization. I did find myself in communion with the jungle vine from which it is made. This is said to be a very ancient consciousness that was on the planet before mankind arrived and it acted as an ally for me while I was there. I personally had many previous invitations to ayahuasca ceremonies in the USA... but (speaking only for myself) I always knew that I would ONLY use this powerful medicine in the jungle from where it originated. So... the only reason for my post was to make it crystal clear that the things I have shared on this thread were NOT due to the use of drugs. In fact, I used ayahuasca specifically to help rid myself of some pesky entities who were not willing to leave me.... and this did work.

[Chester]

I agree with every word you shared justoneman. Not only that, but I always listen carefully to people who have their own personal experience to share, for this is the way to acquiring wisdom, rather than simple knowledge.

Lester Levenson, father of the Sedona Method, used to tell his students to stay away from drinking establishments, to the point of crossing the street in order NOT to walk by the entrance of such. Lester said these places were filled with entities looking to inhabit people who drank, and proximity to such establishments were an invitation to becoming infected with such entities.

I think you and Bill are correct, that drugs can invite possessions. My comment above was about MY personal experience... not about anyone else. I was deep in the Amazon jungle when I used ayahuasca, many miles from human civilization. I did find myself in communion with the jungle vine from which it is made. This is said to be a very ancient consciousness that was on the planet before mankind arrived and it acted as an ally for me while I was there. I personally had many previous invitations to ayahuasca ceremonies in the USA... but (speaking only for myself) I always knew that I would ONLY use this powerful medicine in the jungle from where it originated. So... the only reason for my post was to make it crystal clear that the things I have shared on this thread were NOT due to the use of drugs. In fact, I used ayahuasca specifically to help rid myself of some pesky entities who were not willing to leave me.... and this did work.

I fully believe you about the end of your post. I can certainly see this as possible. I also can imagine many, many folks could and would have a positive experience doing ayahuasca in the proper environment and with the proper friends/guides, like you did. The only reason i pointed out what Bill had mentioned was that he did so in response to a post I believe I made (or on a thread which I joined in on) where I expressed the strong desire to do this myself.

What I realized then was that in my case, it might be unwise (for the reasons I stated above... my history with terrible drugs - the garbage coke for example and frankly the way alcohol consumption ended up being for me). In addition, I was to discover I am part of a small percent of folks who can end up experiencing psychosis strictly from marijuana. This has happened to me about 12 times in my life - the last I almost did not survive.

I am guessing that in your case (as well as the case of many, many others) the ayahuasca experience(s) you had were of great benefit - besides just the entity removal part... but I suspect it played a role in your consciousness expansion as well. I say this because few have I come to know (to "know" to some extent as you have opened up a great deal about yourself) anywhere (besides just here on Avalon) that seem to have such a vastly open mind and give such a sense of being a wonderful, thoughtful and compassionate person. I would imagine the ayahuasca played a role in your development and perhaps not just a minor role.

If I could do it "safely" I am certain I would. Maybe the odds are not good in my case.

[Dawn]

justoneman: I am guessing that in your case (as well as the case of many, many others) the ayahuasca experience(s) you had were of great benefit - besides just the entity removal part... but I suspect it played a role in your consciousness expansion as well. I say this because few have I come to know (to "know" to some extent as you have opened up a great deal about yourself) anywhere (besides just here on Avalon) that seem to have such a vastly open mind and give such a sense of being a wonderful, thoughtful and compassionate person. I would imagine the ayahuasca played a role in your development and perhaps not just a minor role.

If I could do it "safely" I am certain I would. Maybe the odds are not good in my case.

Because of Bill's comment I closed the thread I opened up a while ago about my Peru trip. I have great respect for Bill, and after reading his comment on how dangerous he had personally found ayahuasca to be, I did not want to encourage its use.

Using this drug did not play a role in my openness, as far as I am aware. My Peru trip was in the fall of 2012, and my original awakening (complete with total personality breakdown) was in 1977. The openness and expansion you see in me is due the metanoia I experienced at that time. It came complete with a stay at a mental institution for 7 days. Once you find out that the world is not what you thought it was, and that you are not what you thought you were... well after that it is not really possible to take a firm position on anything.

It was Delight (here on Avalon) who introduced me to this wonderful word. Metanoia is defined by Wiki as:
the process of experiencing a psychotic "break down" and subsequent, positive psychological re-building or "healing"

After my 'psychotic break down' in 1987, I spent the next 9 years without sleep. Each night after a long day of work and being a mother, I would rest for a short time, and then arise and walk in the oak forests until the sun came up the next morning. I experienced a great many transformational changes during that time of re-structuring. So, ayahuasca was just a small bump in my long road, and I did not ask for its help as an ally until 25 years after the metanoia experience. I can well imagine that it could cause as many problems as it resolves for someone who is not used to walking between worlds.

[Chester]

Hi Dawn and thanks for further clarification - getting to know your story even more is wonderful and I appreciate it and I bet others do too. Few can be as open and in such a calm way as you are being.

It is now my question regarding the ayahuasca experience - Besides the entity removal, can you ascertain if there was any additional benefit? If I had to bet, I would bet "yes" but it would be silly of me to speculate, thus asking the question.

[Dawn]

justoneman: I am not planning on additional ayahuasca experiences in my future. That alone should be an indication about how beneficial I feel this experience was. I have made my way through life by following an 'inner wind' which is very faint, but which informs my actions. If there is no sense of this in operation, then I wait and rest... and when I feel its movement again I allow myself to flow with its direction and energy. So, if it ever blows towards ayahuasca again, I may find myself there again.

When I chose to go to Peru, and use ayahuasca as an ally, it was on the strong recommendation of a friend and healer I know. Unfortunately the wonderful shaman, who owned and ran Refugio Altiplano, was under severe stress while I was there. He was experiencing the aftermath of a break up with a long time girlfriend, and manager of the business. She was very angry, and doing some horrendous things to make his life a living hell. Still, he did his job well and I felt blessed to be in his presence. Unfortunately Scott Peterson died a little over a year later and is no longer running Refugio Altiplano. I do not think his former retreat is a safe place to journey at this time, and so I won't be going back.

As for what my ayahuasca experience was like and what it did for me.... As I mentioned in an earlier post, my 3rd eye opened a long time ago through meditation and exercises to open and clear the pineal gland. It was common for me to see many strange entities living among us prior to using ayahuasca. With the use of this medicine, my 3rd eye vision became more clear, colorful, and vibrant so that 'other dimensional' entities appeared more solid. For someone who did not have a history of learning to be non-reactive to seeing entities, the ayahuasca experience could have become extremely frightening. That is likely why all of the visitors to Refugio Altiplano, with the exception of me, could not see the things I did.... fear will prevent the mind from registering what it sees consciously. Scott Peterson DID see the things I did, and let me know that he also saw them.

I am going to speculate here. For someone who is not prepared in advance, ayahuasca could do psychological damage. Perhaps severe damage. Using it might cause a split personality, just as torture and/or trauma do. One personality would be the one who experiences another reality that does not seem to be safe. The other personality would hold on to its view of reality and remain safe in the 3D world we are all taught to see.... thus blocking out the things that are seen with an active 3rd eye. As a seer, my biggest job has always been to remain neutral about what I see. This has often been extremely difficult since there is often a fear response within the part of my 3D conditioned ego structure, which I must soothe, in order to remain functional.

It is the ability to remain calm and accepting of everything encountered which sets the shaman apart. It is said that the psychotic drowns in the waters which the shaman floats upon. At Refugio Altiplano there were 3 senior shaman, and 3 shaman-visitors. After my exorcism, which took about 6 ceremonies, I became one of these. We 6 people took some of the medicine and sat watching the others during the last ceremony I attended there. Many entities were present in the ceremony room, including about 40-50 shaman-elders, who sat calmly on the benches around the room dressed in their peasant clothes watching over everyone. The atmosphere was calm and peaceful, for the 6 of us. Scott lovingly took one body shape after another, to work silently with the woman in front of him, who was badly infected. While he worked, he kept up a conversation about normal 3D life so that she would not be frightened. He spoke to her about her hair do, about things like shopping for clothes, and about the weather. Meanwhile he was working on another level and also mentoring his shamen-visitors. It was a sacred time filled with love and caring.

There was ONE person, out of the 20 non-shaman types, who finally did 'see' on the very last day I was there. He ran down to the dock, as I was leaving by boat, and threw his arms around me. He wanted to express gratitude that I had prepared him for seeing what he finally allowed himself to look at. My careful sharing with the group had born fruit. He said, "I finally understand what you have been saying. Thank you so much for being my way-shower"

And then I was gone... gliding over the brown waters of the Amazon river towards the far away town of Iquitos and back into the weird world of 'Modern' civilization.

[Chester]

Awesome recapitulation of your experience, Dawn... Thanks

[Delight]

I cannot believe there are objective threatening forces at all.
I want to share a retelling of a story that helps me feel unafraid because of anything externalized being my own state.
Neville Goddard is one who knew that the underlying laws are purposeful and Universal. The world is something that is FOR us.

Neville is a teacher from the mid 1900's. For many years in California, he spoke weekly at the Wilshire Theatre and other palces. He gave lectures that can be heard through various sources. He also has some books I highly regard.

Neville always had stage presence. His speaking voice is deep and soothing and elegant. He was handsome and kind. He was a graceful and very loving man to friends and family.

Neville first came to America to dance. He performed as a young man in Vaudeville. He could be called a bon vivant at heart from stories of his theater life. Neville liked treating his friends to dinner. He liked talking and joking and liked the shows and being up at restaurants partying. He liked hotels and fine clothes. He was dark and handsome and liked women.

Neville decided at one point that his life of frivolous eating drinking and merriment was a dead end. Along the same time as he took on being ascetic, he met a mysterious man named Abdulla.

Abdulla a Sage from Ethiopia living in NYC held the lineage of esoteric Christianity that also informed Islam. Abdulla understood and taught the Bible as a psychology of man. The language of the bible is a spiritual guide with multiple layers of symbolism. Every one characterized is within all of us.

Each Character is a state of being mythologized. We move through states but the state is not who I AM.

Abdulla was amused by Neville's angst at his behaviors and his sober vegetarian inner contemplative moodiness. Neville was broke and felt poor and shabby. His spirit was low. In the cause of being spiritual he was suffering a deep lonely pain.

Neville was used to enjoying the pleasures of life. He had grown up in Barbados where his family was sometimes poor but always able to eat well and had no deep hardship. Esthetics and music dance and art were valued. They seem to have been fairly sound in handling differences and supportive of one another.They seem to be have felt a happy family.

His mother was a good housekeeper and his father as an honest man in trade. Neville describes that the goose for Sunday dinner was set aside for special feeding in advance. Instead of fish, the fowl was fed corn to change the meat's taste. He describes it as though he was essentially conscious about the life of the goose but accepted that this is what they ate. Being OK that they ate the goose, he had no inner contradiction about the choice.

In taking on a period of poverty and chastity and trying to live like a monk, Neville was going against his natural feeling. Abdulla kept trying to show Neville he did not have to be a Tea-totaler to be a holy man.

Neville's parents came to visit from Barbados one fall. Neville lived in a cold water flat that he felt ashamed to show his parents.Neville's work had fallen off as show business was making a transition of what was popular entertainment.

The visit seems to have triggered Neville's deep nostalgia for what felt like elusive happiness. He started longing to be able to return to Christmas in Barbados. His whole family would be there. It seemed impossible and Neville flt forlorn and broken up.

Neville shared his discouraged wish to go home. Abdulla promised Neville that this would be possible. The last boat out before Christmas was leaving in late November. Abdulla asked Neville if he would humor Abdulla and take a turn from all he was doing to be a spiritual person? Would Neville follow some direction from Abdulla of where to focus?

Neville was desperate. He used Abdull's suggestions. Neville walked on the street feeling Barbados and the warm moist breeze. He was asked just to do this one specific task of feeling being home.

A letter came from Neille's brother. It asked Neville to come home for Christmas. It asked Neville to buy some new clothes, take the first class passage on the last bat leaving before Christmas. A check was enclosed.

Neille went right away to get a ticket. There were no First Class passages left. Neville was told he could use the first class amenities but must bed in a Second class room. Neville was just glad to have a ticket. He visited Abdulla next to share the amazing news.

Abdulla acted incensed that Neville was accepting of the Second class accommodations. he told Neville to see himself sleeping in first calss. "A man like you does not need to take less than the best as acceptable. There is no limit on this work to create the life." Neville felt chastised and Abduhlla in a huff sent him off. But Neville did the work of changing his picture.

The day of departure Neville was informed that a first class berth was open and he would sleep in a state room as he had imagined. Neville relaxed on the ship. Abdulla had suggested he do whatever he like and stop proscribing a right way to eat and drink. Abdulla had suggested voyage be a point of change. Neville lifted his spirit so high that he never again tempted to accept a state of suffering for any reason.

That Christmas reunited him with his extended family and himself. He learned a huge lesson for real. He chose the state to be and aimed there by feeling at all times he already had whatever was part of the scenery that person accepted. Then later he taught what he knew about the Laws and the Promise. Even later he seems to have reached a state he could only describe in metaphors.
But what he had to say to his audience was that the states he reached were not speacial to him. As just a natural outcome all will experience the states we choose. Everything around us will seem to cooperate in whatever way we make the choices.

The whole world, anything imaginable was open and beckoning to reveal our present state. There is purpose in how we manifest. We need not be abstemious about life and there is nothing dangerous lurking monster to face, just our own selves playing the part of a state.

That is the point...what role is the being playing at the moment? What is a state of being meaning and how do we feel into the new state? If we feel negatively or positively or small or large...anything that we are doing and experiencing: ALL that is JUST a state. It arises form us. It makes sense to the soul to fully express in whatever way we can imagine.

I feel he is an elder brother who went along a bit farther than I and calling back encouragement. It makes me happy to contemplate his message. What a revelation he demonstrated.


"It was in San Francisco, on July 20, 1959 that Neville awoke to find himself sealed in a tomb. Removing a stone placed there, he came out of his skull just like a child comes out of its mother’s womb.

From that moment on Neville’s lectures changed. Having awakened from the dream of life, Neville’s outlook on the world changed. He knew, as the visions came upon him from that point on, that the garment he wore, and answered to its name, was simply a covering, hiding his true, immortal being who was God the Father. And he tried to tell all those who would listen that they were not the little mask they wore, but a being far greater than they could ever conceive themselves to be.

And from that day forward, until his departure on October 1, 1972 Neville, like Paul, expounded from morning till night, testifying to the kingdom of God and trying to convince all about Jesus, both from the law of Moses and the prophets. And some believed, while others disbelieved."http://www.navigatingtheaether.com/neville-goddard/

So, how this relates to the idea of Jinn, Djinn ? I can't help but notice that when we meditate or do any inward practice, we accentuate the inner landscape.
In there demonic elements that are denials of self hurt terribly. But they are states we own.


Any genii captured will escape with fury in due time.
Make friends with the devil and fear not.
Extend a hand in Friendship and devils become lambs kindly.
It is just a mind moving along in states of finding.

Mind strikes the pool where all manifestations arise,
Wavelets spread and that touch all enveloped possibility of life.
Pause at any point where on what we attach
is vibrational sentience we congeal as our congruent match.

Just being the state it is means freedom we all prize.
There is no one there except one's Self to take reprisals on or despise.
There the sentences we passed judge us.
Just one state where we may meet the devils and angels we devise.

IMO it is of such a vast significance that we are ourselves capable of genius, the state of Djinn. Is my state of Djinn imprisoned in a bottle and how does that feel?

[Dawn]

How sweet Delight. My life has not gone this way, despite all I could do to feel, think, and imagine it differently. This message does not tell the complete truth, for me personally. It is not that I have not had some glorious times and experiences in my life.... but I have also endured many 'hellish' events and expreiences as well. I think it is 'nice' that he had such an experience... good for him. Apparently I have fallen short... and it sounds as though you have as well??? Hmm? I am an 'elder' now, so I do not struggle against my life, or my current situation. But it is definately not what I thought or visualized it to be.

Here is a saying which seems to me to be very true based on my personal experience.


Life is what happens when you are making plans for something else.

Sometimes life experiences are amazing and magical, and other times they are anything but that (at least from the view of the conditioned mind). I can tell of times where I experienced amazing God like powers and events that were so magical as to be unbelieveable. I do not speak of these because they would not be believable. However these 'highs' don't seem to be all that life experience is made of. It seems to me that this earthly life is a mixture of both the highs and the lows.

In a way the duality of this world is like the wings of a butterfly... together they create life experiences. Perhaps an 'all good' life would not seem to be interesting. Who can say. I haven't had such ... so I don't know what that might be like.

Perhaps some aspect of me which I am not aware of... The Great Self? .... The Divine?.... made decisions that my life should be filled with both sorrow and joy. Or perhaps in some distant unremembered life I was 'evil' and needed to experience the opposite, as is often said by some of the 'masters' who have lived on this planet. I always thought I might have asked for the life of a shaman... and we all know that this archetype is closely related to the wounded healer archetype.

When I was younger these stories gave me a feeling of hope. But now such things bring up a feeling of deep sorrow. My soft inner child says something like this, "He was loved and given joy. What is wrong with me that I have been spit on and treated so badly over and over?" It does not seem to matter to this inner sad child that many experiences have been wonderful, hearing about them triggers the opposite in her.

And that is something very interesting which used to be taught in the Sedona Method when Lester was alive. He used to teach about emotions in order to help people understand and be at ease with them. In the case of 'Joy', sorrow seems to be triggered. Thus 'tears of joy' occur often. When I used to work with trauma victims, I would always have them go deeply into the joy of a treasured moment during the previous week. As they remembered and allowed themselves to feel the deep joy and peace of a remembered moment, they would suddenly switch into tears, and a full blown trauma vortex would show up. The more joy they allowed themselves to feel... the more intense would be the opposite emotion that suddenly showed up.

[Delight]

How sweet Delight. My life has not gone this way, despite all I could do to feel, think, and imagine it differently. This message does not tell the complete truth, for me personally. It is not that I have not had some glorious times and experiences in my life.... but I have also endured many 'hellish' events and expreiences as well. I think it is 'nice' that he had such an experience... good for him. Apparently I have fallen short... and it sounds as though you have as well??? Hmm? I am an 'elder' now, so I do not struggle against my life, or my current situation. But it is definately not what I thought or visualized it to be.

Here is a saying which seems to me to be very true based on my personal experience.


Life is what happens when you are making plans for something else.

Sometimes life experiences are amazing and magical, and other times they are anything but that (at least from the view of the conditioned mind). I can tell of times where I experienced amazing God like powers and events that were so magical as to be unbelieveable. I do not speak of these because they would not be believable. However these 'highs' don't seem to be all that life experience is made of. It seems to me that this earthly life is a mixture of both the highs and the lows.

In a way the duality of this world is like the wings of a butterfly... together they create life experiences. Perhaps an 'all good' life would not seem to be interesting. Who can say. I haven't had such ... so I don't know what that might be like.

Perhaps some aspect of me which I am not aware of... The Great Self? .... The Divine?.... made decisions that my life should be filled with both sorrow and joy. Or perhaps in some distant unremembered life I was 'evil' and needed to experience the opposite, as is often said by some of the 'masters' who have lived on this planet. I always thought I might have asked for the life of a shaman... and we all know that this archetype is closely related to the wounded healer archetype.

When I was younger these stories gave me a feeling of hope. But now such things bring up a feeling of deep sorrow. My soft inner child says something like this, "He was loved and given joy. What is wrong with me that I have been spit on and treated so badly over and over?"

the Only expression I feel about what you reveal is the yearning that wells us up. I feel it tonight as I want to go HOME and I have the urge to speak up for what home feels like. I have not fallen short or any of us.

That is the very message I feel in Goddard's writings. He used to speak to what his followers practiced in the name of health (physical, finacial, relationship health). They constantly berated themselves in the name of their set goals. They spoke against others in gossip and belittling judgement some days. These were the goals he spoke to IMO... what is the goal in dissing everything?

1. We know deep inside that we sought something beautiful by coming to life.
2. Misery wears us down like a clock winds down. Neville asked his followers to help rewind (in my metaphor) by seeing what they could of happiness. So if I see you as a friend, I imagine in you what qualities you ask of happiness. I see that for you and when I refuse to see it, I start winding down slower and slower.
3. Seeing thy neighbor as thy self (including all unknown sentience) is also seeing what one wants for the beloved, for YOURS too. We have that job to learn, not to freeze up in fear.
This is IMO what I have experienced

To see what looks like happiness in another and appreciate that happiness is flipped backwards when I see the world as a terrible misery for beings to live in. it becomes so, one step away from defining how it looks. It is a state of being happy IO that is the elusive motivation for living. By FIRST seeing it ALL as benevolent and supportive, I include myself and everything in friendship. I expect we will enjoy our world. That includes all and in some mysterious way it all is displaying Creator's original plan.

I feel that there is nothing we should be ashamed about in us or anyone. It is IMO as important to the Universe that we experience a life as it is that the whole Universe exists. I notice tendencies to cringe as if we ever fall short. It isn't permanent really! Only states of being manifested. It is freed up NOW to alter. I know I may loose the burden, the oppression and the miserliness of poverties that I FEEL. I own them but let them as what appeared. Then I am asked to feel something else that I choose to appreciate more. Then I own that expression.

That is why I cannot feel bummed about my state and I love myself anyway. If I see demons, so be it. They cannot harm me.

[Dawn]

Very well said Delight. Thank you for your post.

[Chester]

I truly do believe there is a whole world of sentient beings that, because they didn’t tow the line (of control, enslavement, and oppression), became essentially a parallel unseen world to our own. They never submitted and they have been here through all that has occurred over the course of time here on planet earth, and were here when the primary goal of incarnated beings was to create and maintain beautiful gardens. To work co-creatively, with great mutual respect and honor between species and the forces of nature, and be the caretakers and protectors of this beautiful planet. Maybe this is actually a legacy that originated on another planet, maybe in another star system. Maybe, it is as Agape relates in her story, a multi layered fall from a higher state of consciousness, to one of various levels of impairment resulting from an inability to adjust to a foreign environment.

I also believe that it is possible to reconnect with this natural world in a totally beneficial and life affirming manner that absolutely is as easy as spending time in nature and talking to everything you see with new eyes, as if it was actually as alive and able to communicate with you as your best friend. Seriously, I talk to everything. Out loud even. I can feel the differences between unseen energies now, that either mean to interact in a friendly manner open to mutual sharing, or in a manner that feels controlling or menacing in some way. I didn’t really realize this until the recent discussion about the Jinn. I don’t know what the Jinn really are, and so far I have not really heard definitively from anyone who does know and is willing to share enough to make any assumptions on. I do know, at least from my own personal experiences that I feel very protected when I am out in nature, and this has come about because of a 20 year journey that started with a 3 day fast in a somewhat remote area where my goal was to make a stronger connection with those unseen forces. The energies of nature, when not controlled by man through occult means (or a secret priesthood of man, hybrids, or outright hostile beings from somewhere else who may even be somewhat related to some of these beings/energies that got pushed out of this dimension), are not hostile to anyone who approaches them with respect, as equals. Not under, not above, but as true equals with different attributes.

This has come about after working simultaneously for some time with the “methods of others”. I pretty much quit using the methods of others I realized because it is now time for all of us, in my most humble opinion, to each develop our own unique and very personalized way of communicating and learning to understand for ourselves through our own personal experiences, what it means to work with these various energies. To me, they are like individual people in a way. They are around us all the time and, I believe, are most eager to communicate with us. I actually talk to the trees and tree people around me, the four leggeds of all kinds, the flying ones, those that live in the waters, both fresh and salt. I even talk to the insects I meet. I also talk to all the stone people, and I just realized that I have been consistently over a many years period of time, developing a relationship with these beings that in some ways is more real and fulfilling than many of my human relationships with my fellowman. In many ways they are more trustworthy. But that has just been my experience. I’ve got to think I’m not alone in this. I have chores to do so I am going to leave this as it is for now and would just love it if someone else with similar experiences could maybe elaborate on this idea even more. But, for me, this world (artificially created to control us IMO) would almost be unbearable were it not for my relationship with what to me is the “real world”.


Because my intuition just led me to your profile page, spiritwind, and because I noticed Dawn had mentioned this post of yours, I came to it and read it.

I just want to thank you for putting into words what is pretty much the same view I have about the "Djinn" and my experience with what may be Djinn which is the same as you have had. Essentially very good experiences.

Now, I cannot know that amongst some of the Djinn (if there even ARE such a thing as Djinn) may be Djinn who are deceptive (as some researchers and experiencers suggest.

I don't make any "deals" with any Djinn. I do play with the ideal that if there are Djinn and they share our world, they should be respected and hopefully we would be able to gain their respect.

I also feel the same regarding "method." It is my view that a self developed method may be the best but I can only speak for myself.

It is wonderful when I read something like you have written because I always end up with that great feeling I am not alone.

[Dawn]

justoneman, Thank you for posting this here. For everyone who has contributed to this thread... I want to say, 'Thank You from my deepest heart space'. Somehow, this discussion of the 'dark' that I have seen and experienced, has freed me of it. Perhaps it is true that the root meaning of 'consciousness' is shared thinking.

Quote You are here to master yourself in order to develop and exercise your will, for by this you will create and live in Sacred Spaces with one another. Your most important task here is to maintain Mental Self-Control, holding your own Mind as a Sacred Space, but at the same time to equally treat all others with this same consideration, for of course their thoughts and mental space are sacred too.

If you misunderstand or misuse your will with regards to your mind, you may be tempted to bend another to your way of thinking, and even go so far that in so doing you feel you have "won" or proven right when you force them to think as you. But all you have done is diminish them and their will, and equally cause damage to your own soul too.

For by thinking and acting in this way you most certainly reveal that you have failed to appreciate the very nature of how your Consciousness formed, and you have failed to understand how it is that you will grow beyond your own limited space of knowing. The word Consciousness literally means "Together-Knowing". It means that the only way in which you are able to form your understanding, the only way you will advance your understanding is through and by sharing, blending and integrating your thoughts and sensibilities with one another. You are made of one another and the only way to see beyond your own self-cast shadowed thought-forms is by bringing into your own thought-forms the perspective and light that comes from many others too.

This Power of the Will is most emphasized now, for it is also today that Pluto turns retrograde. I mentioned this in my General Forecast for 2014 where I noted:

- See more at: http://astrologerbillattride.typepad....dLyXv4Ru.dpuf

My awareness has become so very sensitive and subtle over the years. I believe this may be because I need this awareness to dive into the depths where parts of me are still shattered and alone... waiting to be rescued and brought home again.

Most days, and most nights, I meet very dark and hatefilled beings who use fear and energetic threats in an attempt to terrify and turn me away. There are stories in ancient literature about 'gate keepers' within consciousness. I don't know where from, or how, these sprang into existance... but I still meet them often. The difference after this thread is that they do not leave lasting upset within my mind.

You have all given me a great gift with your participation here. Thank you.

[DNA]

I think the crazy thing is that the "Djinn" possession may actually offer beneficial attributes to the host.


When I say a "Djinn" can offer positive things to the individual being possessed, I suppose there is a needed explanation.

We are constantly being fed upon by things we do not see in terms of parastic non-organic parasites.

It's very likely that Castaneda's Don Juan character allowed such a possession to take place in himself in order to rid himself of lower parasites. The Non-Organic beings as Castaneda's Don Juan referred to would be this Djinn like character.

Although it is never stated in the books, I have often thought that this in fact could be the case.

Smaller parasites would include
1. Ghosts
2. Shadow Beings feeding on Sexual Energy
3. Lower astral animal type parasites that feed on bad habit energy.


It has been my experience that the DJINN entity has the rare ability to rid a human of some of these other entities, thus cleaning things up for itself.
The Djinn in turn does not feed on YOUR energy, it instead feeds on the energy of those in your proximity, turning the possessed into a psychic vampire.
Really a vampire period.
And for some reason being rid of the lower parasites makes you more attractive and capable in the eyes of others.
Increasing your ability and role as this psychic vampire.


I have an experience where such an entity made an offer to myself.
I hate creating long posts. The length of which causes folks not to read them, but for the sake of sharing here it is.



DNA's Encounter with a Vampire
This is an experience where I feel a astral entity,,,stronger and more permanent and pervasive than a ghost attempted to form a symbiotic/parasitic bond with me.
.
I began a correspondence with Jonathan Zap (e-mail) at the end of 2003. At the time I was heavily into this idea of there being a non-organic, non-physical energy oriented life form, or forms. Zap did a show with Jonathan Grey on this subject on coast to coast in 06.
Zap is a very cerebral guy, and he was very influential in helping me explore/understand and categorize this phenomenon. Zap has some excellent first hand experience with energy parasites including an encounter with a parasite possessed human, making that human a vampire, found here Mind Parasites,Energy Parasites and Vampires. (http://www.zaporacle.com/mind-parasites-energy-parasites-and-vampires)

So, I started working at this call center/phone modem tech, temp company in march of 07. I was in a training class, and as training classes go, you make friends hang out at lunch, that kind of thing.

I made an acquaintance, and,in so far as the story goes, I believe Darren, was home to a parasite of greater strength, tenacity and permanence than I'm used to encountering.

He (Darren) was quite the character, he was like a guy from the wrong time period, he wore long black riding boots, had long lustrous hair, he wore non-collared long sleeve white cotton button shirts that gave him a bit of a pirate look. He was muscular about 6'2 and looked like he could take care of himself in a fight.
As a guy you can't help but to gauge these kinds of things.

Darren lacked the ability to engage, and I know that sounds weird, but, in a conversation, I tend to value those who can engage, and though we had lots in common, and we talked quite a bit, he never really engaged with me, or if you will, in a Celestine Prophecy esque meaning, he never opened up energetically.

Zap states in his personal encounters with people like this, that folks tend to tell you if they are a vampire, you just have to listen and believe them when they let you know. Now on this note, i could tell you that Darren went on and on about playing this vampire RPG game called Kindrid the Gathering, and that is a little clue. Darren would become amazingly animated (much more so than normal) when telling the tales of his RPG game,,and it was almost as if,,he felt like he was allowed to express that he really, identified with vampires.

On our last day of class,,,we were all coming back from our last break of the day, and getting ready to take the last test of the training class, the instructor was late coming back and I was talking to Darren.

He asked about a turtle I was wearing on a rope around my neck.
I told him it was my animal totem, joking I thought. He became serious, and well,, for the first time, rather engaging. He asked if I believe in animal totems. I told him that thousands of years of shamanic practice lend some backing in my opinion.

He then went into this rant, now, when people want to tell a story, I have no problem with giving them my energy via attention, and I even have this cool ability to zero in on a place in the aura where the memories being shared are stored and focus in on that area, imbuing it with more energy and thus, giving the story more energy to be told. Giving the story teller more energy to and ability to tell the story.

Darren told me about how he believed he had an animal totem, a cat or panther like totem. He said he felt it saved him. He said without it, he knew he would have went the way of his two brothers and two sisters, who were drug addled and homeless or in prison.

Darren and his siblings were the victims of horrible physical and sexual abuse from their father.
Darren acknowledged this as the reason for his siblings having their problems, and stated his not repeating their mistakes, was the help he began receiving one day from this animal totem.

He said he felt a force or living being asking to live in him (he was very adament about it), and he said "yes" to the entity asking to live in him, then feeling an indwelling force that he cited had changed him and continues to, to this day. This indwelling force,,made him feel stronger,,more focused, he said he no longer felt the same craving for substances (drugs,alcohol) like his brothers and sisters did.
By now we were in the class, given notes for the test and given time to study.

Darren had worked there before, and he didn't need to study.
And he wouldn't stop talking about this subject.
I say wouldn't cause I needed to study.
He went on and on, saying this cat like totem lived on in him, and that he never wanted drugs again or needed to drink again.
He said his addictive vices were gone.
Now I could see part of the problem, was that he was getting kind of high on the energy I had given him, and I tried to pull back now, but he seemed to not want to let me.

Later that same night, I had this dream.
I received a call from Jonathan Zap and I answered it on an outside pay phone, telling me that someone was coming. There was a traveling circus, complete with caged animals, the whole nine yards. One of the accompanying performers was going to be paying me a visit.

I took it that it was his friend(Jonathan Zap's friend), and I told him any friend of his was welcome to stay at my place.
He then told me I should be carefull of who I allow to stay in my place and that I should really think it over.
I took this as him being to shy to ask for his friend and told him non-sense, his friend could stay with me.
He again protested, and I told him I had to go.

I was then in my apartment, answering a knock on the door, and it was a young thirty year old man with a dufflebag, he was a sturdy thin gentleman, wearing warm baggy clothes with short black curly hair, he looked greek or roman, but very contemporary.

I invited him in, and told him to make himself at home.
I told him I had some errands I had to run and I left the apartment.
When I came back in, I saw the man with children tied to chairs, torturing them with a drill. He was removing their teeth.
I was in horror. I was in shock. I mean for a dream, I was really feeling the impact of this horror. It was as if this was all really happening, and the children were as alive and important as any child I would see while waking.
As I stood, not knowing what to do, the man nodded to me, as if he would be done in a second, and for me to just wait a minute and watch.

I screamed obscenities at him, not making much sense, and demanded him to leave.
He stopped what he was doing, and told me he was doing this for me.
I failed to articulate a response and motioned for him to leave and then said to leave.
He stopped what he was doing and seemed to understand, he then looked me in the eye and said that I would be better off if I allowed him to continue. He had this knowing look in his eyes he looked very genuine. His eyes had a knowing in them and empathy, it was wierd.

I then knew what he meant.
The apartment represented me, the children represented lesser parasites attached to me.
He couldn't kill them, but he could torture them until they decided to leave on thier own.
He was a non-dead entity parasite maybe a Djinn if you will, basically he would rid the host of all other energy parasites but, I knew not what HIS DEMANDS or tax would be.
He genuinly seemed to believe his presence would benefit me.
He told me to think about it.
.
.
I was crying at this point and told him to leave. And he did.
Next thing, I was on the outside pay phone with Jonathan Zap and he was chastising me for letting this guy in my apartment when he had warned me against doing so. And though I was going to blame him for the whole thing, I realized then that he(Jonathan Zap) had tried to warn me.

I woke up with the sense that there was a presense in the room. A powerfull one. Had the animal totem/energy parasite of Darren followed me home and attempted to make a new home,,,,a new home of myself? Had the parasite/animal totem contacted another entitiy and pointed me out? Are my corrolations in error,,,possible,,,but it all felt very real.

In retrospect I do believe almost all of us have lesser energy parasites, urging us to do things that will step down our spirit energy into a lesser vibration more easy for them to consume.


The lesser parasites are obvious to me, greed, indulgence, stealing, beligerance, aloofness, superiority, I could get into this but these are not my questions, these are obvious.

My question is, what would the Djinn parasite want?



http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2755/4430738876_b2f859298e.jpg

[DNA]

When we go OB at night...and everyone does...either consciously or unconsciously...we are disconnected from the body's nerve system...which is intertwined with the etheric body or etheric matrix...and this means we no longer are able to operate the body physically. So we feel nothing and the body is still and quiet except for maybe some involuntary muscle twitches. Whilst we are fully disconnected no sensations are felt and sleep continues normally. There is still a connection to the body which is the life thread, in the heart via the Vagus nerve...from the top chakra...the consciousness has left the body in it's 'astral' body.

When we return or wake up the consciousness re-enters and we are once again able to feel and move our body.

In some cases and sometimes...not often, when we return, the consciousness...which is now in the 'astral body'...misaligns with the physical body on return and the brain wakes up but the connection to the somatic nervous system has not fully connected or aligned and we then are brain awake but are unable to move or use the nerve system...we are physically conscious but our motor nerve system is not yet aligned with the 'astral' body...we are paralysed...yet we appear fully awake and this is sleep paralyses.

You are so almost there in your understanding here, that I just had to jump on this statement and elaborate a bit for you.


Sleep paralysis when speaking of astral parasites, especially ghosts being the most common are very aware of the above situation you speak of in terms of all dreaming being an out of body experience. And yes they are aware of the connection your body and astral body maintain through the cord.

The brilliance in their manuever is this.

They stay perched on your body feeding on the energy returning through the cord to the body from the astral self.
The astral self is like a kite, floating up in the clouds collecting ionic energy and transferring it to the body so that the body is re-imbued.

Now here comes the good part. Not only can these entities syphon energy from the cord, they can cause your astral self to not fully allign when it returns to the body, and they are purposely creating the "OLD HAG SYNDROM" sleep paralysis and resulting fear/anxiety/terror.

The reason they do this is to feed on the resulting terror/fear energy.

[Shezbeth]

My question is, what would the Djinn parasite want?

The entity(-ies) I have interacted with - after closing/dismissing all previous contracts and agreements - have only ever been interested in sincere respect and attention. They and I recognize and/or appreciate that I have claimed the authority by which I can't be compelled to offer anything I'm disinclined to and retain full memory of the interaction/information.

There is a catch however. Most of what results from such interaction is information/ideation that is incomprehensible or undesirable to most without a previously comprehended metaphorical or figurative reference. To be fair, I am extraordinarily wordy for your 'average layperson'.

I have found myself alienated for attempting to share some of the ideas I have entertained during entity interaction; the 'WTF? I don't wanna know the crazy shart he is talking about' phenomenon.

Additionally I have effectively conveyed information to a person to point of reiterate-able comprehension, yet if/when the topic were to occur later the same individuals expressed verbal, eye, and physiological cues indicating a general disdain for the subject or for recollection and discussion; the 'Oh god, not this shart again' phenomenon (where the individual had previously shown active and interested participation). Other cases involve individuals actively/passively being unable to recall the information or the interaction in which it was conveyed; the 'We never talked about that' phenomenon.

Unless someone else mentions something which I perceive can be an effective reference and shows want to understand the referenced information (in form of sincere inquiry), I have found it better to not speak 'it' outside open-minded places such as Avalon.

Individual results may vary.

[DNA]

My question is, what would the Djinn parasite want?

The entity(-ies) I have interacted with - after closing/dismissing all previous contracts and agreements - have only ever been interested in sincere respect and attention. They and I recognize and/or appreciate that I have claimed the authority by which I can't be compelled to offer anything I'm disinclined to and retain full memory of the interaction/information.

There is a catch however. Most of what results from such interaction is information/ideation that is incomprehensible or undesirable to most without a previously comprehended metaphorical or figurative reference. To be fair, I am extraordinarily wordy for your 'average layperson'.

I have found myself alienated for attempting to share some of the ideas I have entertained during entity interaction; the 'WTF kind of crazy shart is he talking about?' phenomenon.

Additionally I have effectively conveyed information to a person to point of reiterate-able comprehension, yet if/when the topic were to occur later the same individuals expressed verbal, eye, and physiological cues indicating a general disdain for the subject or for recollection and discussion; the 'Oh god, not this shart again' phenomenon (where the individual had previously shown active and interested participation). Other cases involve individuals actively/passively being unable to recall the information or the interaction in which it was conveyed; the 'We never talked about that' phenomenon.

Unless someone else mentions something which I perceive can be an effective reference and shows want to understand the referenced information (in form of sincere inquiry), I have found it better to not speak 'it' outside open-minded places such as Avalon.

Individual results may vary.

I call it the agent smith syndrome.

Matrix reference. It's kind of like the matrix realizes "hey this guy is waking up" and they send a matrix type to marshal false paradigms to fight for their turf inside of the individual.

This is very common for folks who have not gone through the painfull process of self actualization, which in my opinion is extremely difficult, and much easier said than done. The process is ussually one of addition through subtraction. Removing social and familial implanted paradigms. In my experience requiring long stretches of solitary exploration and introspection.

[Dawn]

Shezbeth: There is a catch however. Most of what results from such interaction is information/ideation that is incomprehensible or undesirable to most without a previously comprehended metaphorical or figurative reference. To be fair, I am extraordinarily wordy for your 'average layperson'.

I have found myself alienated for attempting to share some of the ideas I have entertained during entity interaction; the 'WTF? I don't wanna know the crazy shart he is talking about' phenomenon.

Additionally I have effectively conveyed information to a person to point of reiterate-able comprehension, yet if/when the topic were to occur later the same individuals expressed verbal, eye, and physiological cues indicating a general disdain for the subject or for recollection and discussion; the 'Oh god, not this shart again' phenomenon (where the individual had previously shown active and interested participation). Other cases involve individuals actively/passively being unable to recall the information or the interaction in which it was conveyed; the 'We never talked about that' phenomenon.

Unless someone else mentions something which I perceive can be an effective reference and shows want to understand the referenced information (in form of sincere inquiry), I have found it better to not speak 'it'

Shezbeth, will you please tell me more? What ideas have you 'entertained during entity interaction'?

Can you also tell me more about the information you are referring to here, "Most of what results from such interaction is information/ideation that is incomprehensible or undesirable to most without a previously comprehended metaphorical or figurative reference"?

PS: DNA, thank you for jumping in here and adding your wisdom here

I call it the agent smith syndrome.

Matrix reference. It's kind of like the matrix realizes "hey this guy is waking up" and they send a matrix type

This is my personal direct experience. As I became more 'awake' and energetically healthy I was targeted... and I had 7 awful years filled with a great many dark entities. However, as I look back, I believe I clearly see that I was suffering from a couple of agreements I had made. I was also suffering from a false belief system. The agreements were

........1. 'The Bodhisattva vow'... which arrived on its own one day and I willingly and fervently agreed to this (you can read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva_vow)

........2. The 'lightworker' idea of helping to save the planet ( I got help cancelling this here: http://www.ascensionhelp.com/blog/2013/08/23/why-i-am-no-longer-a-light-worker/ )

.......3. The idea of being a 'Christed' individual who had the ability and response-ability to help 'lift' humanity (this mis-understanding arrived all on its own during my years with the Open Gate Sangha)

I now view all of these 3 vows and agreements as lie based. I see that the most help I can give is to simply do 'it' myself. If I 'lift' myself, this is the best gift I can give to humanity and to human consciousness. I do not have a long term plan of helping everyone... though I certainly do this in the way I live my life from moment to moment.

This idea of holding up a 'Hero' personality to aspire to when we awaken is quite an elaborately concocted scheme from TPTB (IMHO). Christ finally coming to an understanding of who and what he is, only to be tortured and having his body killed, is designed to trap the unwary into being like their 'hero'. I have realized that I don't think I desire to have a life which plays this scenario out. Unfortunately I lost quite a few years tangled in these patterns.... sigh. No matter, I see the light now.

[DNA]

Thanks to everyone sharing their thoughts, experiences, and feelings here.

I feel compelled to add my small two cents, in broad terms, for what it's worth. I ask it not be taken as a challenge or attack on anyone here, as it's not intended as such.

When discussing matters like these, such as djinn, we are speaking of what is widely considered an extra/multi-dimensional phenomena and as such it is inherently beyond any firm grasp. These are things largely unseen, and even when we have intimate experiences with them, they are still largely beyond our perceptual capabilities. Therefore, it would seem a matter of common sense that no one can fully understand what is really going on.

( EDIT: ) OBEs, astral travel, and other spiritual endeavors to that effect, I believe, expand our perceptual capabilities and serve to somewhat mitigate the uncertainty above. Though, I think it is feasible that even in these states, we may still be in relatively shallow waters in what may be a deep and vast metaphorical ocean. Valuable insights, but not necessarily the definitive, end-all-be-all on these matters.

It is only logical that existences in other dimensional planes are AT LEAST as complex as life is here. When you delve into the study of physics, ecology, climatology, and cellular biology, you come to see that life (here, on this plane) is indeed complex, no matter how much we like to simplify it on an individual basis.

Trying to understand the 'other-dimensional', and to paint that in broad strokes, is just a bit like trying to understand marine biology and ecosystems by closing your eyes and sticking your hand in a lake.

As I said, I appreciate the insights, and I certainly welcome more on that front. Still, I firmly believe we should avoid generalizing and/or conforming to anyone else's personal perspective and/or track record of experiences (however far reaching), and I believe that to be the best approach regarding extra-terrestrials as well (as much of the above applies to that as well; being too far removed from the 'big picture' to make any absolute assertions). Incorporate what makes sense to you, what 'resonates', but remain open for revision and new (unexpected) experiences.

Also; positive energy. :)

This is very well stated, Freed Fox you continue to impress me with insightful posts.
I work a lot, so I tend to read more than post now days, but I would like you to know, I've read a lot of what you've stated, and you are always refreshingly well researched and come from a wonderful point of view.

Please keep it up.

[Delight]

My question is, what would the Djinn parasite want?

The entity(-ies) I have interacted with - after closing/dismissing all previous contracts and agreements - have only ever been interested in sincere respect and attention. They and I recognize and/or appreciate that I have claimed the authority by which I can't be compelled to offer anything I'm disinclined to and retain full memory of the interaction/information.

There is a catch however. Most of what results from such interaction is information/ideation that is incomprehensible or undesirable to most without a previously comprehended metaphorical or figurative reference. To be fair, I am extraordinarily wordy for your 'average layperson'.

I have found myself alienated for attempting to share some of the ideas I have entertained during entity interaction; the 'WTF kind of crazy shart is he talking about?' phenomenon.

Additionally I have effectively conveyed information to a person to point of reiterate-able comprehension, yet if/when the topic were to occur later the same individuals expressed verbal, eye, and physiological cues indicating a general disdain for the subject or for recollection and discussion; the 'Oh god, not this shart again' phenomenon (where the individual had previously shown active and interested participation). Other cases involve individuals actively/passively being unable to recall the information or the interaction in which it was conveyed; the 'We never talked about that' phenomenon.

Unless someone else mentions something which I perceive can be an effective reference and shows want to understand the referenced information (in form of sincere inquiry), I have found it better to not speak 'it' outside open-minded places such as Avalon.

Individual results may vary.

I call it the agent smith syndrome.

Matrix reference. It's kind of like the matrix realizes "hey this guy is waking up" and they send a matrix type to marshal false paradigms to fight for their turf inside of the individual.

This is very common for folks who have not gone through the painfull process of self actualization, which in my opinion is extremely difficult, and much easier said than done. The process is ussually one of addition through subtraction. Removing social and familial implanted paradigms. In my experience requiring long stretches of solitary exploration and exploration.

For some reason I feel I want to bring something here about being in contexts that twist wholesome connections with what could be called Dimensional beings. My experience of ayahausca ceremonies as interpreted by American church structure was not healthy. The Expectation of a group using the Spirit Vine can inhibit how one contacts other dimensions. My last experience a couple of years ago made me distrust the support for free experience and the subtle installing of beliefs of us and the others.

What happened basically is that there was an expectation in this group that people would be manageably quiet puking up their traumas. I have never vomited with ayahausca and think that I have nothing apparently wrong about that inability but have doubted myself a bit because I was not "normal".

In the way the ceremonies of my experience are conducted, a shaman is brought up from South America. It is expected that participants stay together in a room in their spaces. The drinking is conducted ceremonially then the shaman sings his Icaros and will go around the circle shaking leaves. When he comes around it is supposed he is moving energy around the group. One can have additional medicine. If one feels the urge to talk, one is to go to an adjoinig room.

The last experience I had started with giggles and the belly laughter. The need to sing became overpowering. I was of course shushed and people came to quiet me. I was conscious of the need to sing coming up from a deep place and I felt joined by Gaia herself (in my imagination I suppose). Then I lost consciousness of myself but I was later touched by my neighbor and "came to" being in the room again. He was being helpful because I was doing some speaking. With my eyes open I saw green vining threads connecting everything and the air was not airy but thick so it was like moving in water to reach out. I was heavy. Someone asked me to get up and I could not move. It was embarrassing and I passed out again. Later I was told it took people to carry me outside.

The feeling I had when I was conscious was that the people were ghouls who were trying to stop the voice from speaking. But I passed out of consciousness again. Apparently I spit on people calling them ghouls when they wanted to take me out and the next day learned I hurt people's feelings.

It was Halloween that night. Maybe I was just responding to the idea of ghouls. But sincerely the voice seemed to be a high vibe when I was awake to feel it. Honestly I feel the intention of making me be quiet was ghoulish as it seemed to be about "order" and "propriety" to stop me.

Later outside when I came to I still was seeing visions with my eyes open...like the stars out of their orbits all moving crazily. I heard coyotes singing a song. I was told I was talking about the history of earth and that it was ringing a bit true to the woman who was "minding me"

If I had been able to move through the experience without interference I think I would have retained my awareness of all of it. The embarrassment that "I " felt over being inappropriate was too great for me to stay aware while something was coming up...not purging in a traditional accepted sense.

I am not sure If I was not acting from a non-usual dimension of "me" or some One else was involved. The feeling of this contact was wonderful except for being asked to be quiet and unable to get up and move when I was so heavy and the atmosphere thick and I could not walk.

The "take" I have of this experience and my own beliefs about my contact with others is that human society is a shaper of what we experience, how we respond and how this allows or detracts from being in a "good" communication.

I may be misguided but the feeling I have of the larger reality is that the way we block (a stage term) the scene from our opinions will be so important that we cannot ignore our role in shaping the connections.

[DNA]

With permission from theVoyager I am posting this PM I got a few days ago. I'd like to add that I resonate very strongly with the information he provides about 'protection' not working. I have been on the 'spiritual path' all of my life and have tried many types of protection. I can tell you first hand that they DO NOT WORK! If you are experiencing them as working for you then there are other unknown reasons that you think they are effective. Perhaps you do not have any ages old agreements which would allow them to meddle with you. Perhaps you are not aware enough to clearly see if they are working or not, or perhaps the Jinn that introduce themselves to you are using 'love' and other 'bliss' energies to get a toe hold with you. When you meet beings that feel good to you... watch out... for in time they will likely turn into something else entirely and your experience of them will be very different. (info on the classes being discussed are here: http://www.holographickinetics.com/)


I never know if this is bad policy or not, catching up on a thread and making replies as such.
I always figuire when the thread is this deep why not. Eh?

I just wanted to add to your statement Dawn. I agree 100% here in so far as what you state about protection spells and evocations and what not.
The stuff absolutely does not work for lower parasites, ghosts and what not.
The reason being is personal and never the same.
We all, especially in this day and age, participate in actions that step down our energy and lower our defenses.

I have a story folks can read HERE (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21614-Parasitic-Non-Organic-Multidimensional-Beings&p=231328&viewfull=1#post231328) if they want. The story is how as a poor hungry kid I learned to shop lift at an early age.
Now regardless of my need and or the reason, stealing is a crime against the soul, the practice of changes the charge or frequency of your energy and allows non-organic parasites to feed. The weird thing also is that after these little buggers form an attachment, they can encourage through impulses to continue this activity.
I gave the parasites permission to feed through my action, and only through a change in my action can I remove them.

This takes place on quite a few levels, and the things we do to step down our energy are many fold.

Now here is the difference when it comes to a being like a Djinn.
They know what I speak of. They know the rules when it comes to your actions determine parasite invitations-infestations, and as such, believe it or not even if they are going to attach to you, they "ASK YOUR PERMISSION". It is just like the vampire who asks permission before he can enter your home.
A Djinn knows that invading your person without asking you or doing so against your will is against universal law, as such it is my experience that they do not do this. They tend to ask the host, and what is weird is that the host will say yes sometimes.

When someone tells you they are a vampire, I would go ahead and believe them and be very wary, vampires are pretty freaking honest.

[DNA]

This is my personal direct experience. As I became more 'awake' and energetically healthy I was targeted... and I had 7 awful years filled with a great many dark entities. However, as I look back, I believe I clearly see that I was suffering from a couple of agreements I had made. I was also suffering from a false belief system. The agreements were

........1. 'The Bodhisattva vow'... which arrived on its own one day and I willingly and fervently agreed to this (you can read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva_vow)

........2. The 'lightworker' idea of helping to save the planet ( I got help cancelling this here: http://www.ascensionhelp.com/blog/2013/08/23/why-i-am-no-longer-a-light-worker/ )

.......3. The idea of being a 'Christed' individual who had the ability and response-ability to help 'lift' humanity (this mis-understanding arrived all on its own during my years with the Open Gate Sangha)

I now view all of these 3 vows and agreements as lie based. I see that the most help I can give is to simply do 'it' myself. If I 'lift' myself, this is the best gift I can give to humanity and to human consciousness. I do not have a long term plan of helping everyone... though I certainly do this in the way I live my life from moment to moment.

I agree 100% on these accounts as well.

I personally view all religions as equally false. Not that I would go to a church and tell those folks they are wrong. I"m not ecclesiastical in my view on religions being wrong and on some level they may in fact help for younger souls and all. And I do not mean that in a demeaning way at all, there is no better or worse when it comes to older and younger souls, we all are here together.

But that being said, yes, if a person was receptive to the information I would say beyond a shadow of a doubt all religion is wrong and or bad.

I say as much here Parasitic gods (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?31760-Parasitic-gods).

When it comes to religion I view all with a form of uneasy mistrust.
The old pagan gods were a case of mistaken identity really. Ancient astronauts worshiped as gods, so with all of that worshipful energy and sacrifice being offered, I'm sure some sort of fourth dimensional entity or group of entities showed up to bask in this radiance.

The same goes for the hindu gods, and from these pagan/hindu gods you get the zoroastrianists and jewish religions.
And from these you get contemporary christianity and buhhdism and now we have new age.

[Shezbeth]

Shezbeth, will you please tell me more? What ideas have you 'entertained during entity interaction'?

Can you also tell me more about the information you are referring to here, "Most of what results from such interaction is information/ideation that is incomprehensible or undesirable to most without a previously comprehended metaphorical or figurative reference"?

I should qualify that when I refer to 'what results being incomprehensible/undesirable', I mean in close, physical/social conversation; Avalon members 'get it' and/or 'want to' quite readily. It was not my intention to imply that the ideas were 'too lofty' or 'beyond anyone's comprehension', nor that the ideas were unheard of especially here. ^_^

All manner of topics and ideas. Social perception/mind influence/control on a variety of levels (physical, mental, frequency/wave, etc.), the theory and mechanics of/behind various phenomena - quantum, metaphysic, etc., the comparable and/or contrasting nature of unity/singularity vs. duality/infinity, or just about any topic that requires lengthy explanation or research and an open mind to converse about. It is safe to assume that I discuss things with inorganics as readily/frequently as I do members of Avalon.

Lacking the need to explain terminology or concepts has led me to discuss more with inorganic entities than with present, physical ones, though 'discuss' may be a bit of a stretch. It would be more accurate to state that I monologue internally while processing information and at times am directed to oversight, fallacy, bias, or premature conclusion. Such interactions are thought-based rather than word-based so there is no conflict of perception as to the meanings of words or ideas, and metaphorical comparisons come quite quickly and naturally that could take hours to express verbally.

In that most threads I participate in on Avalon (for example) are subjects that the overwhelming majority (in my local community) would dismiss, discard, or ignore, I cannot ask for input from those around me (with one notable exception). Additionally, many people I've encountered use words inaccurately, or in the wrong context (but with all the confidence of correct meaning/usage).

For example, if I were to begin to discuss the Greek perception/concept of Daemon (which I might add could be relevant to this discussion ^_~), I would immediately be branded (and dismissed) as some type of satan-worshipper (which has happened) by the overwhelmingly Judeo-Christian conditioning which is most prevalent in my area. I could refer to Love (as the antithesis of Fear) and it would be interpreted as the commercial, valentine's day variety.

The Agent Smith syndrome DNA references is a most apt description. I find I am not readily targeted (in this sense) unless I attempt to express 'otherworldly' things to individuals not want to discuss/receive 'otherworldly' input. It is almost like a body/security guard steps between myself and the person 'for their protection', except the 'bodyguard' is within the person.

It is as though an individual's mental blocks/stonewalls have a consciousness of their own, which activate/mobilize when threatened.


... if they are going to attach to you, they "ASK YOUR PERMISSION". It is just like the vampire who asks permission before he can enter your home.

The entity(-ies) I interact with did not do so. When contact was first made, we walked/talked together at length and at the conclusion the entity made to depart (in a sense). I suggested that a lasting connection could be made and made the invitation unsolicited.

[Dawn]

Shezbeth: It is as though an individual's mental blocks/stonewalls have a consciousness of their own, which activate/mobilize when threatened.

I have looked at this a LOT in my current lifetime! I am now accepting the possibility that I may have been wrong in my understanding... and this post is REALLY going to rankle some of the 'spiritual types' here on Avalon.

After my (literal) death, then having my memory forcibly erased before being installed in my body in 1978 most of my mental constructs were seen as completely false. For 7 years I worked all day, roamed the woods nearly all night, and never talked to a soul about what I understood and how I saw this false reality. My mind was utterly and totally silent with no stray inner voices or thoughts at all. When I was among people I felt isolated and completely alone. When I was in the woods I was in communion with everything and everyone there... who were all one and also gloriously separate.

The following 5 years were spent with the Open Gate Sangha, and with Adyshanti. During the OGS years I learned a lot about eastern philosophy and about using words that approximated what my knowing was. I began to share my experiences and understandings in that group... in return I picked up a number of 'mental fleas' (for want of a better term). I began to hear annoying inner voices again. They did not say nice things for the most part. They tried to direct me to do various things, and they bitched about everything all the time. So, the question is, with my unique perspective perhaps we all can look through my eyes at the elephant and see something we normally don't.

What if NONE of the thoughts tugging at me were mine? Well, I know eastern religions SAY this, but all of the people I know in the Western world added an adjunct to this, which is how the mud really gets sticky. The adjunct goes like this. "None of these thoughts are yours and YOU must free yourself from them through this and that discipline and through your intention and attention to the 'right' things and 'right' thoughts."

Voilla... now we are not only suffering from what appear to be parasitic thought forms (seemingly separation and hate based at their core), but we are also ASHAMED of this situation! For Pete's sake! Now we have made a tangle indeed, and freeing ourselves has become impossible. Shame is used a lot in the Western cultures and thoroughly imbedded in all of our children before they are even 6 years old.

Here is a truth I see at this level. What you see that other people put out in front of themselves, are actually parasites.... which in the Eastern Traditions is called the EGO.

And the worst thing we can do is think that this is US or that we are responsible as individuals. This is why the Bodhisattva Vow, Lightworker Trap, and Christed Being mental traps are so terrible. You and I cannot become free as long as so many others are busy making and distributing angry parasitic thought forms.... maybe.... at least this looks like a strong possibility.

What people and religious types usually say is that these thoughts are OURS that we made and they are coming back home to us because we are responsible for creating them. I do not think this is actually true in many/most cases among the awakened humans. I actually think we are drowning in a soup made by 'others' around us. By taking any of the vows we are stuck in a continuous cleanup operation. That's what I did day and night for 21 years before I saw it was an impossible task. I finally realized this... OMG! THEY DO NOT WANT LIBERATION AND/OR ENLIGHTENMENT AND THEY ARE NOT COMING WITH ME.... to try and drag them along is not love.

[Catsquotl]

Thank you Dawn,

That makes a lot of sense that does.

With Love
Eelco

[DNA]

Voilla... now we are not only suffering from what appear to be parasitic thought forms (seemingly separation and hate based at their core), but we are also ASHAMED of this situation! For Pete's sake! Now we have made a tangle indeed, and freeing ourselves has become impossible. Shame is used a lot in the Western cultures and thoroughly imbedded in all of our children before they are even 6 years old.

Here is a truth I see at this level. What you see that other people put out in front of themselves, are actually parasites.... which in the Eastern Traditions is called the EGO.

And here is the heart of the conversation really.
People think a Djinn possession is so unbelievable, but not a few folks state this is already the case. Some folks say we are already possessed by the Djinn.
Michael Harner's Ayhuasca journeys have told him these beings are dragon like whales.
Carlos Castaneda states that these beings are more electrical energetically than we are, but that they are inorganic beings called "fliers".
Not a few people including John Lash have stated these "fliers" are the archons talked about in the Gnostic texts.
And there have been quite a few correlations made in the way of connecting "fliers"/"archons" to the "Djinn" talked about in middle eastern lore.

The truth may just be we do not need to fret over a "Djinn" possession, for it has already taken place, and is the norm rather than the exception.

I have a thread where we discussed this here. Skyfish of nasa tether incident don juan's mudshadows? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?36535-Skyfish-of-nasa-tether-incident-don-juan-s-mudshadows)

[DNA]

Here is a story about a vampire encounter from a pretty cool dude named Jonathan Zap.


Story can be found at Jonathan Zap's Website here (http://www.zaporacle.com/mind-parasites-energy-parasites-and-vampires). He has other stories like this by the way.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I’m going to put in as much detail as I can recall of this strange encounter, excluding any details that might reveal the vampire’s identity. Each time I’ve reflected on the experience, I see new connections in some of the details and I want to give the reader a chance to make their own connections, to connect the dots themselves.

I first met my young friend Nicholas—a pseudonym, and yes, I still consider him a friend—when he was seventeen or eighteen years old while I was doing I Ching readings for people in a public place. The encounter related here would have occurred two years later, and Nicholas would have been nineteen or twenty.

In retrospect, Nicholas looks remarkably like an Ann Rice vampire. He was exceptionally good-looking in an androgynous way and everyone commented on this. More than anyone I’ve ever met in person, Nicholas looked like a living Japanimation or anime character. He had enormous eyes, very high cheekbones, straight hair—dyed various colors—and a very small nose and mouth. A serious martial arts student, he trained constantly, and was thin with very high muscle definition. His metabolism was so high that he ate enough for four people but had a body fat below 5%. This was a big problem for him because he had been abandoned by both parents, was always broke, and whatever money he did have had to go to the huge quantities of food he had to eat.

Also, much like an Ann Rice vampire, Nicholas was keenly intelligent and with an impressive array of talents. He had educated himself in a surprising number of areas for someone so young, and was well informed about the occult, Eastern philosophy, and psychology. And although he apparently came out of a horrible trailer-trash background, he was mannered, eloquent in speech, graceful in movement, and exotic in appearance. Some people instinctively mistrusted him, but to me he was unfailingly honest, thoughtful, and considerate. Of course, I have no doubt that he presented me with his very best side because he valued me as a mentor. Still, I want to acknowledge that his conduct toward me was exemplary, and he was, strange as it sounds, a completely innocent participant—as far as I've been able to tell—in the vampiric attack I experienced. This will become clearer later in the narrative.

On the evening of the encounter, I hadn’t spent time with Nicholas for at least a year, with the exception of once bumping into him and his girlfriend, Jessica—a pseudonym—at a local health food store. This was because I had been traveling and hadn’t been in the part of the country where they lived for over a year. After I returned from my travels, I ran into Jessica sitting at a table in a coffee shop. Also exotically beautiful, and racially unidentifiable, Jessica was a couple of years younger than Nicholas. Although her appearance hadn’t changed much, she seemed completely different than when I had first seen her over a year ago. A year before, she was someone with whom I would never have expected to have a conversation. She was extremely shy, or at least so inwardly shut up inside of herself that I never saw her relate to anyone, except in the most perfunctory way, besides Nicholas. Once she had complimented my artwork, but otherwise we scarcely exchanged a complete sentence, even though I saw her almost every day. And it wasn’t just me; in the past there had been this powerful keep-away aura surrounding her like a force field. But then on seeing her at the coffee shop, I noticed an amazing change, she made strong, friendly eye contact, greeted me like an old friend, and she seemed completely relaxed, open, and eager to talk. I was astonished. I’ve almost never seen such an extraordinary change in someone in a year’s time.

We had a great heart-to-heart talk, and two or three more such conversations would take place over the next couple of weeks. Jessica was only about seventeen, but now had the poise of a much older woman, was highly intelligent, articulate, precociously wise, and her exotic beauty turned heads wherever she went. She acknowledged the profound change in herself and credited most of it to the influence of Nicholas. She explained that, with painstaking effort, patience, and insight, Nicholas had helped her to work her way out of her problems.

On the evening of the encounter, as part of a revelation of his own life story, Nicholas told me that Jessica had been brought up in a cult, and from the earliest age had been subjected to constant sexual abuse, had been raised to be a Kama Sutra trained sex slave. When I first met Jessica, I felt she was a borderline personality type, a person with a fragmented center who seemed likely to remain that way. Given her horrendous past, this wasn’t surprising. But the improvement in her was little short of astounding.

Much of our conversation that day in the coffee shop was about her relationship with Nicholas. They had been together for three or four years, which at their age was practically a lifetime. A traumatic aspect of the relationship, for her, was that she wanted to be monogamous, but Nicholas insisted on an open relationship, and he had affairs with other young women. He was never dishonest about this, did all he could to ease her discomfort, and always related to her as his principle lover, but, nevertheless, it was traumatic for her.

In the last conversation I had with Jessica, she mentioned that some guy she had known in the past, who had been abroad, had returned to town and was madly in love with her. She was apparently considering having an affair with him, since she had always been the monogamous partner in this open relationship.

A few days later, it was a freezing cold night and I was hanging out in my RV when Nicholas called me on my cell phone. Although I had had several heart-to-heart talks with Jessica recently, I still hadn’t spent any time with Nicholas outside of the five minute run-in at the health food store. Jessica told me several times that she wanted me to spend time with Nicholas because it had helped him so much in the past, but we had conflicting schedules, and it hadn’t happened yet. Nicholas told me on the cell phone that he desperately needed to talk to me that evening, that Jessica was leaving him for this new guy and was going to live with him in another country. He was close by and I told him to come right over.

Soon Nicholas was sitting across from me in the back of my eighteen-foot RV, drinking yerba mate. Outside, the wind was howling, and it was one of the coldest nights of the year. The lighting in the RV was rather dim. It had been a gray, overcast day, and my solar panel hadn’t fully charged the deep-cycle batteries. With the propane furnace running, which uses an electric fan, electricity was low and I lit a couple of candles for more light. Nicholas looked quite stressed compared to how he looked just a couple of weeks before. His complexion was what Ann Rice would have called, “preternaturally pale,” and he was thinner, his face looking drawn, and his elfin Japanimation features seemed ready to morph into Edvard Munch’s The Scream.

Naturally, the first thing we talked about was his relationship with Jessica. He reiterated some of the things that she had said about his successful efforts to help her, and told me about her abusive past. Although he had always insisted on an open relationship, and even though he knew it was hypocritical, now that the shoe was on the other foot, he felt terrible. She was spending the night with this guy right now. He might have been able to work through that, but now that she was suddenly leaving him to live with this guy in another country . . . He had come to view Jessica as family, and her leaving him now was a traumatic return of the feelings of abandonment he experienced with his parents.

We talked about this for some time. I gave him the best advice I could, and we did a couple of I Ching readings on the subject. After the readings, Nicholas told me that he was ready to change the subject, that he had spent the whole day talking to his closest friends about this traumatic breakup and he felt talked out on the subject.

Nicholas’s change of subject was rather unexpected and abrupt.

“I think I’m a vampire,” he said.

“How do you mean?” I asked.

“I feed off of other people’s energy.”

“Everybody does to some extent, can you give me an example?”

“For example, you,” replied Nicholas. “From the first time I met you, I wanted to feed off of your energy.”

“What do you mean by that?” I asked.

“I’ve always wanted to learn as much as I could from you, to absorb your ideas, and there’s always been a sexual undercurrent to it.”

This last part surprised me, seemed to come from left field, otherwise his explanation didn’t sound particularly vampiric. I assumed he had the hunger of a narcissistic personality type, always wanting more attention, which was very understandable considering how unparented he had been.

This may sound too obvious to be stated, but it’s always a good idea to pay attention when someone tells you they are a vampire or evil. Many years before someone warned me that they were evil, but I was too young and too busy being sympathetic to realize that I was getting a very serious warning from someone who was indeed evil but had a subordinate part of himself that possessed enough love for me to give me a heads up. This evil mutant even told me about the exact moment in his life, at age sixteen, when he experienced “the death of his soul.” Foolishly, I ignored the warning and this resulted in a vampiric energetic attack with lasting consequences, among an array of other dark consequences. But this is an even more bizarre story that might take hundreds of pages to unravel. And if that wasn’t enough of a prior lesson, when I was ten years old I survived a still more dangerous and bizarre, nearly fatal, paraspsychological attack that resulted in a dog mauling and hundreds of stitches. The point is, I should have known better; I had been there before, been bitten before. A classic pitfall is that if you have survived weird darkness you may develop a fatal vanity that you know what you’re doing or that lightening won’t strike twice—an especially foolish notion if your last name is Zap.

It may be true that most evil entities and vampires don’t tell you what they are. They’re often too busy being deceptive—“the devil hath power to assume a pleasing shape”— and you have to be able to see through the guise, the enticing aura of glamour, beauty, and power. But a surprising number of vampires and evil types will tell you what they are, often just once, like a subtly placed calling card, and you’d better pay attention. Often people make the mistake of thinking this person’s just a punk trying to show off; if they really were evil, vampiric, etc. they wouldn’t admit it. But many times they are both showing off and they are evil or vampiric. And don’t forget that narcissistic punks can be evil or vampiric too. Another dangerous delusion is that if you are what I call a “mutant”—a self-transforming round peg off the accepted scale of normality—then other mutants must be your allies. As a mutant myself, I have had the blessing and privilege to be a magnet for other mutants, but I have sometimes forgotten that mutants are not just dangerous to the collective, they can also sometimes be dangerous to other mutants. This is especially true if you underestimate them, or are glamorized by their charisma into overlooking their shadow.

In Nicholas’s case he was not showing off, was not a punk—except sometimes in style of dress—and was not toying with me, not playing the game of leaving the calling card hidden in plain view. He was seeking help for an actual condition. Unfortunately, I was busy being sympathetic, rather than empathic, and absorbing what he was telling me psychologically rather than bioenergetically. We passed over the vampire part, and I failed to notice the significance that the life story he then narrated well into the night had begun with that one stark statement: “I think I’m a vampire.” The revelation came and went too quickly, and I failed to recognize its continued relevance to the life story that followed. But in just a few more hours I would be taking it very seriously indeed.

Nicholas told me that he had no memory of the first four years of his life—it was a complete blank. He was pretty sure this was because his father, who later abandoned him, had abused him. There wasn’t a trace of incest survivor self-pity or victim glamour, and his hunch seemed plausible. A classic symptom of the abuse, which he noticed about himself, was that he had been extremely promiscuous with members of both genders from a very early age. There was a great deal of violence in his childhood. His mother went through a series of abusive boyfriends who were also abusive to him. As a young child he witnessed a brutal murder right inside his trailer home. His mother abandoned him at an early age, and he had to make it on his own as a street kid in a big city.

Much of this was a surprise to me, because even though I knew Nicholas was separated from his parents, he had a rather polished manner, was so intelligent and well-educated, and was always stylishly groomed and dressed in surreal costumes of various sorts, from Gothic to futuristic punk to fantasy Renaissance Fair attire. Presently, he seemed more elf-like than vampiric. He was wearing some sort of elaborate, laced leather jerkin, a finely made Renaissance Fair item that looked like what Orlando Bloom wore as Legolas in the Tolkien films. He did not seem like someone from a violent, trailer-trash background, though I vaguely remembered that he might have told me some of this a year before, but it never quite gelled in my mind because the detail was left out and it was so incongruous with the Nicholas I knew.

Nicholas’s life story didn’t have any feeling of fabrication about it, much of it depicted him in an unflattering light. He had been a victim of violence from the earliest age, but as he got older, and learned how to fight, he had also been quite violent himself, and with shame and anxiety he admitted that he had severely maimed one or more persons. He was a street kid living in a dangerous urban environment. For a while he lived with a man who was a major dealer of a designer drug in the rave world. Apparently he was this man’s companion, protégé, object of infatuation, bodyguard, and probably his lover. There was a certain park he went to in the city to have anonymous encounters with members of the same gender.

By the time I met him, Nicholas’s looks, intelligence and charisma—my observations, not his—had obviously opened doors for him, and he was able to make his way off the street and into more favorable circumstances, though he still lived close to the edge. But now, with the loss of Jessica, who lived in more affluent circumstances, a big part of his emotional and physical support system was falling away.

We talked well into the night, freezing wind howling outside the RV. Sometimes the gusts were strong enough to cause the fiberglass coach to roll slightly on its suspension, like a ship at sea. At some point, much earlier in the evening, Nicholas realized that he had missed the last bus to the town where he had a place to stay. He was used to staying in this town with Jessica, but obviously that wasn’t happening tonight. He asked if he could crash in my RV. Of course I said yes, my sleeping loft easily slept three, two with plenty of room to spare, and he didn’t seem to have any other option.

After recounting his life story, Nicholas said he was exhausted and looked it. I told him to take the far side of the sleeping loft, so I wouldn’t have to disturb him when I climbed up and took the near side. He lay down on the loft and seemed to instantly fall asleep. I followed sometime later. Usually I need less sleep than most people, and I am also a very, very light sleeper. This may be the result of years of training myself to wake up and recall my dreams. Often I have 100% recall, so I feel it’s a good trade off even though it is often a hardship for someone who travels as much as I do. I also tend to be hyper-sensitive to human energies, and it is almost impossible, for example, for me to fall asleep or remain asleep in a dwelling where anyone else is awake. So I knew it would be tough for me to fall asleep so near to someone else’s energy field, and I wanted to make sure Nicholas was sound asleep before I even tried.

When I did go up on the loft, I took the extreme near side so as to have as much personal space as possible. After I lay there for some minutes waiting for sleep, Nicholas rolled over in such a way that three different parts of his body, his forehead, knees, and toes, were lightly touching my body as he lay in a fetal position. I didn’t want to wake him, so I just lay there and eventually I fell asleep.

Sometime in the middle of the night, an inner survival warning system jolted me wide-awake in an instant. I’m not sure how to describe what followed because so many things were apparent simultaneously, but can’t be described simultaneously. Describing one thing after another would seem to imply a chronological sequence, but the first several things were all apparent in the first heartbeat or two of awakeness; they were more like a simultaneous overlay of perceptions and realizations rather than a sequential cascade. Please keep this in mind as I relate the following.

I was awakened by one of the most shocking and intense things I have ever felt in a long life of shocking anomalous experiences. A massive, massive energy transfer was happening, primal life energy, chi, was pouring out of me and into Nicholas’s sleeping body, which was still lightly touching mine. I found myself paralyzed, and this paralysis seemed a more active, energetic version of ordinary sleep paralysis. I felt myself restrained with lashings of fiery energy, much the way Gulliver, in Gulliver’s Travels, awoke to find that the tiny Lilliputians had restrained him with lashings of rope over his whole body.

There was a parasitic entity in the sleeping loft hovering just below the roof near our feet. It was like a dark lenticular cloud, or vortex, with a somewhat double-convex lens shape similar to the way a spiral galaxy looks from a great distance. My visual perception of it was not definite; it was dark and amorphous with fractal boundaries and rotating movement. I felt it energetically, a direct perception of it, and there may or may not have been an overlay of conventional, anatomical eyesight. I knew that this parasite was living in conjunction with Nicholas and was directing the massive, massive energy transfer while he slept. I felt that if this energy transfer were to continue for even three or four more heartbeats I couldn’t be sure if I would even be me anymore, if there would be anything left capable of resisting. (At least this is the way it felt.)

All of the above was a multilayered simultaneous realization. You may have experienced—I certainly have—that in life or death situations our psyche can step outside of slow, linear time thinking ego mode and go into an enhanced mode where profound layers of perception can unfold in a heart beat.

After this first heartbeat of recognition, there was a change in me, my will to resist emerged like a sword pulled from a sheath. In my mind a blue fire sparked, and instead of fear there was an intense curiosity and fascination; I had been studying mind parasites for years and now I was able to see how they actually worked!

With my mind fully awake, and my will activated to stop this vast, insidious suction of energy, the color temperature of my psychic energetic metabolism switched from red to blue, an energy that is apparently unnourishing, even dangerously toxic to parasites. The dark spiral cloud entity made a distinct sound at that point, and the only way I can language this sound—its meaning was instantly apparent—is to say that it was the sound of primal frustration of a very hungry animal that has been interrupted in the middle of feeding.

With my mind and will fully awakened, the parasitic cloud entity vanished like a puff of smoke, leaving not even a hazy residue. The energy transfer had already stopped and it was just Nicholas and I on the sleeping loft. All of this occurred in a space of less than six heartbeats, possibly as few as three or four, but it had indelibly etched itself on my memory.

Now perhaps you can make sense of my earlier statement that Nicholas seemed an innocent participant in the vampiric attack (as far as I can tell). Nicholas has never consciously acted to harm me in any way, unlike the other vampiric person who warned me he was evil. Even the attack did not appear to be harmful, because I had successfully resisted it. I didn’t feel drained the next day, or ill in anyway. Again, this was a dramatic contrast to the other vampiric attack, many years before, that left me ill for weeks afterwards. Months after I recovered from that illness, which much resembled giardia—a parasitic infection—the vampiric person called me on the phone from South Korea while I was in Manhattan, thousands of miles away, and within two minutes, before I hung up the phone, the illness returned!

Ultimately, the experience with Nicholas was a peak learning event revealing much about a very significant phenomenon. This does not mean that I encourage anyone to approach vampires to learn from them. Studying the dark side is one of the most classic ways to get sucked into the dark side, and that remains one of the most likely pitfalls for me.

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks into you." —Nietzche

Returning to my narrative, I stayed awake on the sleeping loft for some time, possibly the rest of the night, thinking about what happened and reinforcing the experience, both the conversation with Nicholas and the attack, into memory. I felt perfectly safe afterwards, though as an extra precaution I did an inner practice called “Theater of Memory,” which, among other virtues, is very effective in sealing and protecting energetic boundaries.

The following morning I told Nicholas what I had experienced and he seemed interested, but not the least surprised. He reminded me that he had told me the night before that he was a vampire, that he fed off of other people’s energy, and that he had always been attracted to mine. I could hardly accuse him of pulling the wool over my eyes. My tone was not accusatory or asking for apology, but one of fascination with what I had learned. We parted on good terms, though I have not seen Nicholas or Jessica ever since then.

There are many interesting details in this case study to comment on. The first that comes to mind is the paradoxical complexity of Nicholas as symbiont/host to a vampiric parasite and the many positive, even exemplary, things about him. Ann Rice’s vampires have much this same uneasy mixture of the admirable and the horrific. Nicholas had clearly had an astoundingly positive effect on Jessica, though he also suggested that his vampiric nature may have been unsatisfying to her erotically, and may be what caused her to seek fulfillment with another lover.

As an extremely attractive young male, Nicholas was a classic candidate for parasitic attack and infection. He may have been repeatedly raped as a small child, and was certainly highly promiscuous as an adolescent. Just as physical sex is now known as a great disease vector for microbiological parasites—as above, so bellow—it is also a likely vector for energetic parasites. Similarly, a voracious appetite for food, with an inability to put on weight, is sometimes a symptom of physical parasites, like tape worms; perhaps it is also a symptom of energy parasites that want to rev up the metabolic fires of their hosts. In the movie The Matrix , Neo is derisively called “Coppertop,” a reference to Duracell batteries and a reminder to him that he exists to be used as a disposable energy source for parasitic machines.

The way Nicholas’s vampirism worked had remarkable parallels to the origin of vampires that eventually unfolds in Ann Rice’s Vampire Chronicles. In her vampire cosmology, a spirit, a disembodied entity—spirits are often said to be jealous of those possessing physical bodies—who has an affinity for human blood, is able to merge with the bodies of an ancient King and Queen of Egypt through the apertures of bloody wounds opened in their bodies by the stabbing knives of assassins. The King, Queen, and the disincarnate spirit become bonded, merged symbionts, and a new species is created, neither flesh nor spirit: the vampires. Nicholas, a self-proclaimed vampire, seemed to be a symbiont/host of a disembodied parasitic entity.

[DNA]

The entity(-ies) I interact with did not do so. When contact was first made, we walked/talked together at length and at the conclusion the entity made to depart (in a sense). I suggested that a lasting connection could be made and made the invitation


Well call me dense, but I never fully understood what you were saying before.
So you are stating that you have made a connection with one of these beings?
And that you are now the result of a cohabitation?
Fascinating.


Could you elaborate on your connection?
Do you feel the connection has been over all positive or negative?
Do you feel you can terminate the relationship?
Anything stand out as far as differences in your behavior?
Differences in your relationships?
Any change in your sex life? No real details needed I"m just curious as to any over all noticeable change in your appetites.
Any changes in so far as it relates with your family?
Anything change in terms of your vices? Drugs, alchohol, food,?
Do you find any parallels in terms of the story above with Jonathan Zap?

[Dawn]

DNA, I am glad you showed up on this thread to converse with me. I confess that I never did make it all the way through your 'Archonic Parasite Ra' thread. It was just too much bad news for me to take in all at once. I have read many pages of that thread, but not all. Anyway I like the post you pointed to above and am quoting some of it here:

Unfortunately, I now see that the possession of people's mind is not limited to a select individuals in positions of power on this planet. If the revelations in this press release are accurate, everyone is potentially being mentally manipulated by these creatures.

I was recently contacted by a mental health professional that confirmed my conclusions about this very serious problem. This individual has over 30 years of experience dealing with people in a clinical setting that are plaugued by these parasitic creatures. Here is a small portion of what was shared with me:

I reached over the corner of my cluttered desk and from a battered grey bookshelf, pulled down a copy of Beyond Fear, a Toltec Guide to Freedom and Joy by Don Miguel Ruiz. I positioned my office chair to where I could see my patient "G" out of the corner of my eye and began reading. .......................

.................I watched G out of the corner of my eye as I read alert for any movement. He remained motionless. When I finished reading, eager to get his opinion, I looked up with curious anticipation. When I looked up I was greeted by a pair of cold, reptilian eyes which glared at me with pure hatred so dark and intense that it sent chills coursing up my spine.

The transition from the sociable, curious inmate I had been speaking to moments before to what appeared to be an animal intent on murder stunned me. What looked at me through G’s eyes was not G. Apprehension consumed me. With my eyes glued on G, I rolled my chair against the back wall and braced for an attack. I felt a predator about to pounce. He sat silently boiling with piercing hatred

Yes... this is what I see peering out from behind peoples eyes. I can actually 'see' the energy of these things, and I know when one is about to 'attack' me. They don't really have any power but they attempt to upset their intended victim and goad them into a negative response.... they like the negative emotional energies generated by most people during such social interactions.

When they speak to me through their hosts, I just spread my energy out like an amorphous field. Then I allow the energy of their attack, and the words that usually accompany it, pass through me. In this condition I feel no emotions what-so-ever. I am not harmed or as food by them as long as I do not have an emotional response.

I think this is the truth behind the saying, "DON'T RESPOND TO ANYTHING THAT IS UNFAVORABLE TO YOURSELF" and "TURN THE OTHER CHEEK". This simple advice points to these situations and how to avoid being harmed by the parasites behind them.

[Shezbeth]

I'm going to do the 'bolded response' thing on this one. Later additions/comments in red.


So you are stating that you have made a connection with one of these beings?
I made a connection with something, and while I am reasonably certain that it is of an extra-dimensional nature, I cannot be absolutely certain.

And that you are now the result of a cohabitation?
Cohabitation is not an accurate term for it, it is more like the a Bat-phone with video chat mixed with the computer from Star Trek, where I can share perceptions, thoughts, and what I see, hear, feel, etc.

Could you elaborate on your connection?
Are you requesting further elaboration, or will the above suffice? I certainly can, but I hope you know your Star Trek, as I have found the most accurate metaphor to illustrate.

Do you feel the connection has been over all positive or negative?
Exclusively positive. I can't recall any aspect of interactions that have been adverse.

Do you feel you can terminate the relationship?
The possibility exists, and there have been times I have closed the connection. I have never felt the need/want to keep the connection closed however, so I generally leave it open.

Anything stand out as far as differences in your behavior?
Yes. Prior to any such interaction I was very hyperactive, inconsiderate, and loud. It wasn't an immediate change, it was a gradual one that resulted of having indicated (in as biting a sarcasm as I often display) the ludicrous nature and overall lack of conducivity engendered by such behavior. Simply, it is hard to keep being (as much of) a douche when you've got something 'on your shoulder' reminding you of your douchebaggery.

Differences in your relationships?
Yes and no. Prior to, I had engaged in a number of less-than healthy relationships with friends and in many cases family, and over time I felt less inclined to maintain those relationships. Again, nothing changed immediately, but over time I was increasingly able to recognize behaviors, trends, and dynamics that were neither helpful nor healthy in both myself and those whom I had for years chosen to associate with.

Any change in your sex life? No real details needed I"m just curious as to any over all noticeable change in your appetites.
:lol: No observable changes, though my sexual activity up to and after the occurrence has been overwhelmingly below the average. I wasn't a virgin at the time, but only barely so by 1 experience about 3 months prior. I misspoke, I was a virgin at the time, 'that' didn't happen until the following may.

Any changes in so far as it relates with your family?
Not directly, but as with the friends and relationships, I have been able to recognize unhealthy and/or predatory behavior within my family dynamic which I am unwilling to perpetuate or allow for.

Anything change in terms of your vices? Drugs, alchohol, food,?
Yes. Gradually, I felt less inclined to participate with harder drugs (LSD, Psylocybin, and MDMA x Mescaline) and no longer do them. I still smoke pot on a semi-regular basis, and where I used to drink heavily and daily, I now drink moderately but rarely (celebrations and such).

Do you find any parallels in terms of the story above with Jonathan Zap?
Yes, but I'll have to get back to you on that in a minute, the household computer is required by another.
There are several parallels, comparisons, and antitheses to Zap's story. As far as physiological description, the only difference between me and this Nicholas individual is that my hair is blond, and my clothing style is (self-titled) 'ninja-sheik'. I was want to wear predominantly dark/black clothing (not in a goth style, but with emphasis on blacks and greys) and my hair was mostly kept at least 18" or more in length. Additionally while mine was neglect and not sexual, he and I come from abusive backgrounds though mine was upper/middle class. I have always had an incredible metabolism regardless the type or volume of food that I eat, though the portions I generally consume are well within (and in some cases less) than 'average'.

In school, I was the kid who regularly (still do) read the dictionary, so in addition to being outspoken and unreserved, I had a tendency to 'beat' others with my vocabulary (still do :p). An old associate of mine exactly fits the given description of 'Jessica', and she was also from a sexually abusive background (not a cult, an older sibling) and displays a comparably tangible 'aura' of 'don't come too close'. Interestingly enough, the individual who she is now married to is consistent with what I would describe as a vampire, though he is far to nescient of the subject to claim or be aware. I was also interested in Anne Rice as a developing adolescent, but largely though influence of my associates and less because of personal interest.

I'm not a vampire, but I have the ability to draw/absorb energy, as well as to emit and transmit it. I have had numerous experiences with vampiric individuals (or perhaps, individuals with attached entities) who seemed (mostly, some exceptions) entirely oblivious of it, and have noticed that if I am not careful will end up drawing them toward me.

The story of the vampiric experience is interesting, because it is both comparable and opposite to experiences I've participated in with my spouse. For several years (starting before we met) she has had bouts of sleep-paralysis, as well as 'invaders' of a sort which are consistent with the common description of Draconis reptilians as testified by Simon Parkes and others. What is particularly odd - in contrast to Zap's story - is that making physical contact with me is one of the ways to end and/or prevent the onset/continuation of 'visitation'; we usually sleep while making contact by feet, but any other type of physical contact when resting/sleeping is bothersome.

She has never commented on an experience of draining, but she vividly describes the experience of terror, apprehension, etc (so I wouldn't rule out vampirism). Also, while touching me or being touched by me is a way to get the entity(-ies) she is beset by to leave, throat singing is a practice by which I can consistently and regularly get it/them to flee with immediacy.

UNlike the Zap story, I have never been able to see any particular visitors, at best I can detect an abnormal 'shimmer' to the air when directed to look at 'the thing', and that only with concentration.

I feel I should reiterate that up to, during, and after initial contact and conversation with the entity(-ies)* nothing about me seemed to change. It was like meeting a surprising and delightful individual and then exchanging phone numbers and/or e-mail addresses, but where both parties reside so impossibly far away that except in rare circumstances, proximity interaction is impossible.

The changes I describe are more resultant of having 'someone' to bounce ideas back and forth with. Having an 'outside' perspective allowed me to identify biases, rationalizations, fallacies and such in my own perceptions, decisions, demeanors, etc. because I was able to perceive how it sounded/appeared from an outside perspective. At no point has the entity ever told me to do anything, though it has helped me to reason out a great deal of things utilizing my own faculties.

* I keep referring so because while I perceive the entity as being singular, I also recognize that there could be a variety of entities maintaining the 'other end' of the connection, though the interaction is consistent whether its one or many.

If you have any additional questions or would like greater elaboration, please let me know and I'll be happy to include. One thing the entity (I'll dispense with the -ies) and I have in common is that I am more than happy to volunteer ideas, perceptions, information, descriptions, etc. All I/it require is a sincere, open mind; that or the appearance of such, in a gradually decreasing number of cases. ^_~

[DNA]

I have had so many instances of 'attacks' (I'll give examples in a moment) that I finally began to recognize a certain type of being looking out of people's eyes at me. Becoming aware that something non-human is looking out of the eyes of humans at me has been a long road.

This really makes me think of what are called Shadow Beings. I feel they are different than a lot of beings. I feel shadow beings are after sexual connections and I feel your statement here is an example of this.



-After a number of rapes and molestations as a young woman I decided to heal the trauma energy involved in my sexuality. Part of this journey took me to a class where this was worked on in a community setting. The man I did one exercise with had 'something' come into his eyes... but he did not act according to its urging because of the class setting... In response I felt something 'evil' rise up and peek through my eyes. What was that? It resonated exactly with the energies of the rapists and molestors who had attacked me in my childhood... and it is not human IMO

-My ex-husband and I are still great friends. He is a loving and wonderful man. 2x in our 28 year marriage 'something' climbed into his body and became physically violent without warning or provocation. The first time we were in a motel and I allowed 'it' to rape me after slapping and hitting me, the second time was at our home and I got away after a few slaps by locking myself in the bedroom. At no other time in our marriage was my husband ever violent in any way, either physically or verbally. He has no recall what-so-ever of either of the 2 incidents.

So, here is what I have to say to you in answer to your post. You either do not have this demonic energy in your family line or in your life... or you are not yet aware that it is there. It is very tricky and very surprising, for the people who focus it appear to our 5 senses to be 'normal'... however the behavior and energy they display is not human.

I come from a similiar background, and my teens and twenties were spent in a state of constant sexual agitation and for lack of a better word "the hunt".
I speak from experience when I say I too have felt this manifestation show up in my eyes, the result being that my head was on swivel when an attractive woman would pass by. I also began to pursue women who returned this same look.

I'm not proud of this, I'm simply stating it so it can be said.


The shadow being I speak of is not a Djinn as far as I am concerned. It is a ghost, "I think" swept up into a organized "mafia" type afterworld organization.


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/asset.php?fid=6110&uid=6168&d=1307776664


I have a story where I disconnected one, and the connection it had was physical in nature.
From what I learned, the only way to stay clear of them and their influence, is once one has connected to you, after you remove it, you have to remain celibate.
A most difficult and nearly impossible undertaking in this society, and probably any.

My interaction with a shadow being (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?28318-My-Interactions-With-A-Shadow-Being.)

[DNA]

DNA, I am glad you showed up on this thread to converse with me. I confess that I never did make it all the way through your 'Archonic Parasite Ra' thread. It was just too much bad news for me to take in all at once.

Just for the record that wasn't me. That was Houman. And I have to agree with you, I've never made it through that thread either. I don't like the negative artwork and hopeless conclusians. I believe in keeping an open mind and not acting like I understand any of this with any kind of certainty. I did do the Parasitic Non-Organic Multidimensional Parasite (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21614-Parasitic-Non-Organic-Multidimensional-Beings) thread, but, you were all over that thread. It was a few years ago though. :)
Ancient history as far as Avalon is concerned.

[DNA]

I'm going to do the 'bolded response' thing on this one.

[QUOTE=DNA;824115] So you are stating that you have made a connection with one of these beings?
I made a connection with something, and while I am reasonably certain that it is of an extra-dimensional nature, I cannot be absolutely certain.

I've been reading over what you have been describing and I"m honestly at a loss.



DNA"S QUESTION "And that you are now the result of a cohabitation?"
Cohabitation is not an accurate term for it, it is more like the a Bat-phone with video chat mixed with the computer from Star Trek, where I can share perceptions, thoughts, and what I see, hear, feel, etc.

In the lengthy post I made on page 8 titled "DNA's interactions with a vampire", I met a person named Darren, he told me of a horrible childhood, much abuse, sexual abuse and violence along with neglect, the kind of thing that makes you lose faith in the human race. His brothers became violent drug addicts who were in prison, his sisters became sex industry workers and drug addicts, he swore to me the only reason he was not in the same boat as they, was because one day he was propositioned by what he called his animal totem. He stated it was a great cat type animal, and he swore to me that this was the reason he was able to change his life. His negative behavior and addictions were no more. And I"ll be honest, he was clean well dressed and seemed to have no malice about him.

Given the choice, he may have chosen well.
I will never believe one's mortal soul is at stake in this type of sharing.
Do you feel any type of similarity here? Do you feel an alternative or bad path was altered by your new found relationship?







DNA's QUESTION "Any change in your sex life? No real details needed I"m just curious as to any over all noticeable change in your appetites."
:lol: No observable changes, though my sexual activity up to and after the occurrence has been overwhelmingly below the average. I wasn't a virgin at the time, but only barely so by 1 experience about 3 months prior.

I find this fascinating to no end.
I find that sexual activity and I"m no prude here, but I find sexual activity be it actual or self fulfilled being that the conclusian is orgasm tends to feed what I have termed shadow creatures.
Regardless of what people may think, I find this the norm where folks are concerned rather than the exception.
But I also find it fascinating to ponder on the possibility that if someone where to abstain for a length and be free from this shadow entity. This dark mafia of sexual energy, that a positive connection could be made by a higher dimensional wishing to view/experience our existance.
Interesting stuff. A lot of assumptions are made here by myself, I do not wish to pry, so take the statement as rhetorical if you wish.

[Dawn]

Shezbeth: Also, while touching me or being touched by me is a way to get the entity(-ies) she is beset by to leave, throat singing is a practice by which I can consistently and regularly get it/them to flee with immediacy.

Shezbeth, please elaborate about 'throat singing'.

I would also like to say here that I have been beset by entities pretty much all of my life. The wonderful man I share my life with has changed that for me. When we met 3 years ago he actually knew I had trouble without my speaking of it. One day he offered to show himself to me and actually 'unzipped' his body to show me a white light being with wings. I told him of seeing this and he is very aware of his wings (always has been) ..... He says he keeps them 'wrapped around me' so that I am always protected. Now this discussion is not about the 'lovey dovey' stuff that is based on male-female earth relationships. This discussion has been between 2 energetic beings who recognize each other. My partnership with him also strengthened him, and has given him some liberation from his own set of limitations and attachments. I'm not sure why I could not hold my own energy field in a shielding sort of way... perhaps it is all of the trauma and sexual abuse I experienced as a girl and young woman.

Lately I have been doing some really deep work with Jin Shin Jyutsyu and also with an I Ching based modality. Together with my new life I am (for the very first time) having the experience of a dense core to my body/being experience here. Perhaps I am developing enough density in my body to begin to be able to shield myself from 3D attack... not sure, but I suspect this is the case.

[Dawn]

DNA: I come from a similar background, and my teens and twenties were spent in a state of constant sexual agitation and for lack of a better word "the hunt".
I speak from experience when I say I too have felt this manifestation show up in my eyes, the result being that my head was on swivel when an attractive woman would pass by. I also began to pursue women who returned this same look. .............

......................I have a story where I disconnected one, and the connection it had was physical in nature.
From what I learned, the only way to stay clear of them and their influence, is once one has connected to you, after you remove it, you have to remain celibate.
A most difficult and nearly impossible undertaking in this society, and probably any.

For others who might read this thread I'd like to shine a ray of hope here.

I did a LOT of trauma recovery work for YEARS and YEARS and YEARS on myself..... then I took training and helped others release their trauma. Yet, I was unable to totally release the sexual wounding locked into my body. I believe that entities from the sexual predators who accosted me were able to cross over into my body and infest it due to physical contact with the men in question. These sexual parasites seem to recognize each other and they cause attraction between one infected human and another. ICH!

(So DNA, consider that YOU may not have been the one creating LUST energy... likely you had parasites trying to stimulate your body into feeding them. That is what I think this is about)

YET... I am actually healed from this now IMHO

Here is how this occurred for me. I was directed to the man I live with now by a very audible mans voice in my head (considering all we have looked at on Avalon about the Voice of God this doesn't sound too good- right?). I was in the process of dismissing my partner as unworthy because of his tiny trailer residence. THE VOICE simply asked a question, "How do you expect to ever heal yourself sexually if you do not have a physical man who can help you?". That was it.. the VOICE would not converse any further and I ended up moving in with my partner about a week later.

So how did this healing take place? My partner has the healthiest sexuality that I have ever seen in a human. He has absolutely ZERO shame and honors his masculine body as being both beautiful and natural. He has practiced sex without orgasm most of his life in order to continually harvest his own energies, yet he does allow a full release occasionally with a woman as a gift of energy to her. This is the amazing man I moved in with and who helped my body heal from sexual abuse. Due to trauma my body had closed down all the energy flows which enliven female genitalia. That area of my body was tough, hardened, and almost completely closed up. The tissue was like scar tissue. There was no possible way for normal sexual function with such anatomy. Over the first month we were together we worked to release all lust, shame, fear, grief, anger and so on that came up around the topic of sex and around any act that appeared to have a sexual connotation. It took many many hours and a lot of devotion to healing.... but I am finally well. Once the healing was completed, we had sexual intercourse, without orgasm, for some months until the desire to do so simply ended.

I am so glad I did not die with this trauma locked into my energy field!!!

[Shezbeth]

I made a connection with something, and while I am reasonably certain that it is of an extra-dimensional nature, I cannot be absolutely certain.

I've been reading over what you have been describing and I"m honestly at a loss.

I make that statement in observance that while I have seen the entity with my eyes (just the once), and can interact with it relatively at will, I cannot with certainty claim that it "is" or "isn't" anything except that it isn't human. It's even possible that it is a figment of my imagination or something, kind of like Tyler Durden in Fight Club, but given our interactions I find that to be highly improbable. While there is a certain mystique to the interaction and its elusive nature, I have to weigh and evaluate every potential and accomodate the possibilities. I can reasonably assume that it is a Djinn or other such entity, but I have to admit that I am not 100%.


Cohabitation is not an accurate term for it, it is more like the a Bat-phone with video chat mixed with the computer from Star Trek, where I can share perceptions, thoughts, and what I see, hear, feel, etc.

In the lengthy post I made on page 8 titled "DNA's interactions with a vampire", [...] one day he was propositioned by what he called his animal totem. He stated it was a great cat type animal, and he swore to me that this was the reason he was able to change his life. His negative behavior and addictions were no more. And I"ll be honest, he was clean well dressed and seemed to have no malice about him.

I very much enjoyed your story of Darren, and there are similarities and consistencies to that story as well. The most glaring being that in the initial encounter with the entity it appeared to me as a form of wolf (it was blurry), and at the time I also identified it as an animal totem or spirit animal. Two years later I was doing a guided meditation and I could 'see' it more clearly as being a coyote. I don't credit it with being responsible, but I will admit that it played the most significant 'not me' role in my ongoing potentiation and emergence.


Do you feel any type of similarity here? Do you feel an alternative or bad path was altered by your new found relationship?

I find the idea of 'altered paths' to be a misinterpretation. I find there are only two things in the realm of manifestation, that which is inevitable and that which is not. Having said, I will admit that interaction with this entity was the influence that helped me to realize my inevitable progress, so I suppose any disagreement is semantic.


No observable changes, though my sexual activity up to and after the occurrence has been overwhelmingly below the average. I wasn't a virgin at the time, but only barely so by 1 experience about 3 months prior. I misspoke, I was a virgin at the time, 'that' didn't happen until the following may.

... I find sexual activity be it actual or self fulfilled being that the conclusion is orgasm tends to feed what I have termed shadow creatures.

I agree, though I am uncertain of your usage of the term 'shadow'; do you mean 'dark' or do you mean 'hidden' (I'm thinking hidden). There is an overwhelming amount of energy involved in sexual acts, and I'm of the mind that there are entities absorbing, vamping, or otherwise basking in the 'glow' no matter what the participants do. Personally, I'm of the mind that there is never a point where an individual is entirely unobserved by something or someone.


Interesting stuff. A lot of assumptions are made here by myself, I do not wish to pry, so take the statement as rhetorical if you wish.

No need. I'm bouncing around topically, and doing back and forth to previous posts for accuracy and reference, so I may include more if I feel I have been remiss.

Edit: After consideration, I would like to amend the previous about cohabitation, bat-phones, and Star Trek-esque computers, to include the idea of embassies and ambassadors. In establishing connection, I deliberately 'fabricated' a space designated and authorized for the entity to inhabit and interact from. In the Star Trek (DS9 specifically) metaphor, it was like allowing an outside (non Starfleet) ambassador/representative to have their own quarters, but without affording/delegating any authority or decisive control over the ship/station and without any ambassadorial privilege. Specifically, "in my head" I built a 'dog-house' (literally modeled after Charles Shultz's Snoopy house).

In light of this, I recognize that one could rightfully describe the situation as 'I am possessed by something' depending on perspective, but in experience I find this to be wholly inaccurate. It would be more accurate to say that I have chosen to possess a 'piece' of the entity with their cooperation and permission, insomuch as the relationship is maintained along mutually beneficial lines.

I don't claim that this is precisely what is meant, but it is similar to how Carlos Castaneda refers to the voice of the second attention and his interactions with it after claiming the authority to silence it.

[Shezbeth]

Shezbeth, please elaborate about 'throat singing'.

I already have. ^_~

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?13522-Throat-Singing

[DNA]

My partner has the healthiest sexuality that I have ever seen in a human. He has absolutely ZERO shame and honors his masculine body as being both beautiful and natural. He has practiced sex without orgasm most of his life in order to continually harvest his own energies, yet he does allow a full release occasionally with a woman as a gift of energy to her.

I can't believe we took this here.
I'm cool with it.
Maybe a few traumatized Avalonians questioning the normal G rating, but hey, you can't make an omellete without breaking a few eggs.

Yea, I found the Mantauk Chia stuff when I was pretty young. His Chi Kung is based on the idea, for men atleast that you have to NOT orgasm. No ejaculation of anykind. Instead you are supposed to be able to circulate your sexual energy in what is called the microcosmic orbit.

I fully believe this to be true.
I tried my best and had a forty day and nearly thirty day stint and a bunch of times I got into the teens.

But I am a mere mortal man, and this stuff is super duper hard to maintain.

Probably worth it, and I absolutely recomend it to folks.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51VHNDUWY5L._AA160_.jpg






I agree, though I am uncertain of your usage of the term 'shadow'; do you mean 'dark' or do you mean 'hidden' (I'm thinking hidden). There is an overwhelming amount of energy involved in sexual acts, and I'm of the mind that there are entities absorbing, vamping, or otherwise basking in the 'glow' no matter what the participants do. Personally, I'm of the mind that there is never a point where an individual is entirely unobserved by something or someone.


I agree 100% with what you state here in terms of sexual energy and sex almost always being a spector-spectating sport if you will.

I hyperlinked a interaction I had with a shadow being earlier, it may clear up what I'm saying in those terms.
The defining characteristic is this.
Well let me start off by saying I can see ghosts. No big deal.
But a shadow being is not the same thing.
I can see a ghost head on, they are phantasmagorical and take human esque form if they see you looking at them. They also have the hindu dot in the middle of their head, where their pineal glad would be. And it's red.

A shadow being is the absence of light, I can only see one out of the corners of my eyes. I can move my head back and forth so as to keep it in my vision, but it is different. Now I can speculate here, but it seems to be that Shadow beings, even though they seem different than ghosts, are still ghosts, but they are ghosts who have circumvented reincarnational order for a long time, and also they have engaged in parasatism, forced parasatism, and because they are in essense stealing it makes them easy prey for parasatism.
Shadow beings are corded, and fed on by those higher in their heiarchy, It is a pyramid scheme.

[Dawn]

Shezbeth: Quote Posted by Dawn (here)
Shezbeth, please elaborate about 'throat singing'.
I already have. ^_~

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...Throat-Singing

Thank you for this post Shezbeth. I have wanted to understand a bit more about this for a long time. In the past I've attended a concert given by monks who practice this as a way of achieving higher states of consciousness. It was really amazing... and you have supplied my quest for a toehold into this information.


I fully believe this to be true.
I tried my best and had a forty day and nearly thirty day stint and a bunch of times I got into the teens.

But I am a mere mortal man, and this stuff is super duper hard to maintain.

Probably worth it, and I absolutely recommend it to folks (Mantak Chia's works).

What I am trying to tell you DNA is that it is likely your INFECTION OF ENTITIES which is pushing you into sexuality. Some of the ones I had were attached directly to the genital area of my body and were very difficult to detach. If you were infected in this way then you would experience being out of control of your sexuality. Since I had them... and then got rid of them I can attest to this being the case... You cannot control or maintain what is NOT YOU.

I also know that the discipline is much more difficult for a man than for a woman. Did you realize that Mantak recommends you do his exercises only as long as comfortable and that if you need a release you can decide to have one? Having a release does not mean you have to permanently get off the wagon... you can continue to practice for a while until you decide to have another release... a week, a month, a year, etc. It is good that this info is finally available to the interested general public, rather than being hidden for so many years.

I'd like to add here 2 actual positive interactions with non-corporeal beings.

Taoist Shadow being:
The first one began with my attendance at a business conference far from my home. It was a strange time for me, as I had already had my 'death and reinsertion' experience. I no longer felt like I belonged among human company. On the second day of the seminar I was wandering the halls of the conference center, watching groups of humans gathered to discuss business, when I was approached by a stranger. He handed me a very expensive taped set of Taoist lectures held within a portfolio case. Handing this to me he said simply, "I was told to give these to you, they are yours". Then he vanished into the crowds of people and I never saw him again. Returning home I began to listen to the audio lectures and doing the practices suggested. These practices were accompanied by HUGE rushes of energy. During tape 4 the speaker said, "Go into the woods at night and you will be met by a teacher'.

Without hesitation I went into the woods that night and, sure enough, there was a 'teacher'. It was this shadow being 'teacher' who accompanied me while I walked at night in the woods for the next 7 years. At first it was really difficult in the extreme to understand what he communicated to me! Our communication was rudimentary and done more through a feeling of flow... punctuated by definite sharp "NO-NOT THAT WAY!" communications. Over time I began to be able to 'pick up' more of what he meant for me to understand. He told me that he had no name that I would be able to pronounce, and that using a name for him was inappropriate. He helped me become aware that I could listen to the earth with all of my cells, see the ground with the bottoms of my feet, communicate with plants, and know when I am in a place where earth frequencies are beneficial to me.

I could only see him out of the corners of my eyes, just as you mentioned DNA and also as Simon spoke of. He wore a dark cape and I never could see a face in there. He also did not have legs but seemed to have space beneath himself and the earth, though it was hard to be certain since the cloak was full length. I read somewhere that these types do not have lower chakras like humans do and are therefore not able to connect with the earth... which is why they never appear 3D to us. Perhaps this explanation is a good one. This being vanished when I began attending the Open Gate Sangha meditations and retreats and I have not seen him since.


Healing Female flier
While attending a week long silent retreat at a Buddhist center I met a healing entity. This was an interesting center. I slept in a room right out of the pages of National Geographic. It was painted with ornate and brilliant patterns (wow! Those Tibetan monks REALLY like colors!) and filled with an entire wall of glass cases in which over a thousand ancient scrolls were kept. Since I am not Buddhist, and my group was only renting the woodland center I was not allowed to take a closer look.

After a number of days of sitting in the meditation hall I became aware of deeper and deeper layers of disharmony... meditation works this way for me. As disharmony is seen/experienced I must balance it and then the next depth opens up. Well, I had been rather stuck for 2-3 days on just how to 'help' my kidneys. They were in pain and had a very strong voice of the victim. I really did not know how to help them, for all that they said was based in the truth of experiences from this life. Any attempts to help them were met with outrage and defensive energies.

That was when a 'healing entity' that resonated with the female energies of Quan Yin showed up. She stayed with me for about 30 minutes and showed me by example how to heal this situation. She simply showered them with LOVE and lots of it. There was no attempt to do anything to alter their perception that they had been victimized and no attempt to move any energy... she simply radiated a HUGE amount of LOVE into that area. As she did so their song slowly stopped and they became quiet. I learned that I cannot argue with the truth... all I can do is radiate LOVE into something like that.

I never did see this one. Her energy was strongly female and I have a hunch she may be one that Tibetan Buddhists work with, which is why she showed up at Virjapani Retreate Center. She was above my head in location and shown the healing energy down through my crown and into the kidney area from there. When she was done she simply flew away.

[DNA]

He helped me become aware that I could listen to the earth with all of my cells, see the ground with the bottoms of my feet, communicate with plants, and know when I am in a place where earth frequencies are beneficial to me.

I could only see him out of the corners of my eyes, just as you mentioned DNA and also as Simon spoke of. He wore a dark cape and I never could see a face in there. He also did not have legs but seemed to have space beneath himself and the earth, though it was hard to be certain since the cloak was full length.

I"ve met a couple of nature beings before, I state this because normally if someone told me this I would think it was a nature being you were talking to. But I give you the benefit of the doubt, and if you say it was a shadow being then it probably was.

This leads me to offer another explanation for the shadow beings.
I stated earlier that I was of the opinion that the shadow being I had encountered was a discarnate human who had attained his shadow being state through long duration in the fourth dimension and his association with a parasitic mafia of sorts. My logic here being that shadow beings were in fact ghosts who had been dead a long time.

This may not be the case at all. I also do not believe shadow beings to be the Djinn. They just do not seem to fit that description.

I've always had a second popular theory as to the origin of the shadow beings.


STANZA VII from the book of Dyzaan "Madame Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine"
24. THE SONS OF WISDOM, THE SONS OF NIGHT, READY FOR REBIRTH, CAME DOWN, THEY SAW THE VILE FORMS OF THE FIRST THIRD, "WE CAN CHOOSE," SAID THE LORDS, "WE HAVE WISDOM." SOME ENTERED THE CHHAYA. SOME PROJECTED THE SPARK. SOME DEFERRED TIL THE FOURTH. FROM THEIR OWN RUPA THEY FILLED THE KAMA. THOSE WHO ENTERED BECAME ARHATS. THOSE WHO RECEIVED BUT A SPARK, REMAINED DESTITUTE OF KNOWLEDGE; THE SPARK BURNED LOW. THE THIRD REMAINED MIND-LESS. THEIR JIVAS WERE NOT READY.

Footnote:
*The idea and the spirit of the sentence is here given, as a verbal translation would convey very little to the reader.
Secret Doctrine - Vol. 2 page 18


I"ve always felt that this and other passages like it are stating, that not all of the souls who came to earth were very fond of entering into and accepting human bodies.
I've often wondered if these "shadow" beings, are in fact a hold over from the souls that originally refused to enter mankind.
I mean, I say that out loud and sounds ridiculous, but, there are times I felt it worthy of consideration.


I've also considered via Edgar Cayce that the other planets in our solar system are home to life of a different frequency or dimensionality.
The shadow being could be a inhabit of one of these planets and in this case a visitor.

[Dawn]

Thanks DNA... the 'knowing' that I received about this being was that he was coming from a distant dimension. This reality where he resided was so different from earth that he could only send a portion of himself to be with me nightly. He seemed to be somewhat 'stern' in his mentoring. His presence kept me focused on pushing all the boundaries in my conditioning. He set me many challenges such as .... running barefoot across a wild hillside meadow in the dark with my eyes closed. Such things, and this is only one example, pushed me past the boundaries of fear and into finding out that I had abilities which I was not aware of. For example, a wild meadow full of rodent holes, sharp stones, spiders, snakes and so on is, in theory, not a safe place to run across barefooted with eyes closed. I had to keep my body safe somehow, which is why I learned to see with the cells on the bottom of my feet.

And what to make of being handed an expensive recording set from someone I did not know. Not only that, but the recordings were all about a form of Taoism based on ascending through communion with nature and moving past physical death. According to Mantak Chia there are hundreds and even thousands of Taoist masters who did not die and who still walk the earth based on their Taoist practices.

As far as nature spirits, I have had the privilege of having a number of these show themselves to me. I am familiar with many of them. I really do not think my mentor was one of these. He did not seem to be responsible for maintaining any of the earth gardens or species like all of the earth elementals I've met.

[wegge]

isn´t it possible to live in symbiotic relationship with these other "things" like it´s seen in nature like plants and fungi etc.??

[Shezbeth]

isn´t it possible to live in symbiotic relationship with these other "things" like it´s seen in nature like plants and fungi etc.??

That is quite literally one of the definitions of symbiosis.


4. any interdependent or mutually beneficial relationship between two persons, groups, etc.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/symbiosis

In my own interactions, the entity does not take, ask, or demand anything from me. I produce/emit/radiate more than sufficient energies just in being, and beyond that I choose to respect it because I find it respectable; This, it has shown, more than adequately satisfies it's interests. In exchange - both because it appreciates the conducivity of the relationship and in finding me to be respectable (allegedly) - I can dialogue in a variety of ways with it at will.

Neither party expends any resources in the interaction, and both party benefit.

[DNA]

isn´t it possible to live in symbiotic relationship with these other "things" like it´s seen in nature like plants and fungi etc.??

I absolutely think you are correct in stating we should explore the idea of this concept.

I also think we should be cautious.

In an article by Carl Zimmer from Discovery Magazine August 2000 he states.


By one estimate, parasites may outnumber free-living species four to one. Indeed, the study of life is, for the most part, parasitology.

Most of the past century's research on parasites has gone into trying to fight the ones that cause devastating illness in humans, such as malaria, AIDS, and tuberculosis. But otherwise, parasites have largely been neglected. Scientists have treated them with indifference, even contempt, viewing them as essentially hitchhikers on life's road. But recent research reveals that parasites are remarkably sophisticated and tenacious and may be as important to ecosystems as the predators at the top of the food chain. Some castrate their hosts and take over their minds. Others completely shut down the immune systems of their hosts. Some scientists now think parasites have been a dominant force, perhaps the dominant force, in the evolution of life.

Full Article HERE (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21614-Parasitic-Non-Organic-Multidimensional-Beings&p=403268&viewfull=1#post403268)

[DNA]

In my own interactions, the entity does not take, ask, or demand anything from me. I produce/emit/radiate more than sufficient energies just in being, and beyond that I choose to respect it because I find it respectable; This, it has shown, more than adequately satisfies it's interests. In exchange - both because it appreciates the conducivity of the relationship and in finding me to be respectable (allegedly) - I can dialogue in a variety of ways with it at will.

Neither party expends any resources in the interaction, and both partybenefit.


I think it very possible something like this exists.

I went through an experimentation phase with ghosts. Interacting with them, witnessing their parasite tactics, and allowing them to engage myself in this manner, and as you can imagine the overall effect was pretty draining.
I enticed them by meditating with a fist sized clear quartz in one hand and a fist sized amethyst point in my other. (I talk about some of this here, How to see a ghost for yourself (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21695-How-To-See-A-Ghost-For-Your-Self)).
My meditation vision being enhanced by the crystal focus and my energy projection being maximized as well.

I didn't tell very many folks about these interactions, but I told a lifetime best friend of mine named Henry.
For Henry I beckoned for an entity to show up, and sure enough one did.
A hispanic female woman who had passed away a few days prior to our interaction.

Though I instructed Hank on how to engage in this manner so as to be able to view this entity, he could not.
I instructed him that entities are a tad easier to see when they are imbued with your own energy.
But, and I was told this by the entity, his energy was not available and she wanted nothing to do with him

Not too long after this I had a dream about Hank.
I was at his parent's house in their living room, and there was a beautiful salt water fish aquarium, about a 200 gallon tank.
In it were really pretty salt water fish, a lion fish and a small alligator. These animals were all living together in harmony so to speak.
As I was viewing the aquarium the front door of the house opened, and in walked a six foot alligator, many times larger than the small alligator living in the aquarium.
The large six foot alligator entered the aquarium and it ate everything in the aquarium. This absolutely horrified me for some reason.


I say this because Hank had become a succesfull artist, a musician, and in the pursuit of his financial success he lost himself.
He was never the same person.
And I often think, it had to do with that alligator in my dream.
I think Hank invited that entity into himself so as to help enhance his ability to make it in the music industry.

I say this because, although Hank became tougher and more convincing in his demeanor, he lost something.
He lost some aspect of himself. He lost his sensitivity, he lost his ability to engage you in conversation, he lost his ethical compass as well.

Hank also told me about instances where he would dream there was a golden caterpillar that would stretch from his body to those in his household and feed off of them when he slept.

It has been my experience that when folks have the entity you speak of Shezbeth, they are given an armor of sorts against energy thievery from physical people around them, ghosts and who knows what else. It seems to be part of the trade off.
But, it seems they are host to a being who in exchange for this expects to be fed by those people who are in close proximity to the host.



Now for no reason what so ever really I am going to leave this song.
It is beautiful, haunting, and makes me think of this whole situation we are talking about.

Take Care all.
It is a difficult topic we engage.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53sRFRlawe8

[Shezbeth]

Thank you DNA for an epic-tier thought-provoking question!

What you describe is certainly possible, with a few exceptions. The armor you refer to appears an attempt to describe the phenomenon surrounding the realization of spiritual sovereignty. Its not that I am 'allowed' to be exempt from the practices of entities which might/would feast precisely because I am not subject to the practices of such entities. Specifically, such entities have been notified and made aware of the consequences and recourse of attempting to engage so in or around my operant location (physical, astral, etc.), as is/was an integral part of my elimination of previously existing contracts.

Still, I find it equally if not more probable that most/all physiological life has drawn/attracted/evoked some form of non-physical life to some degree of proximity (i.e. whether attached or nearby). I suggest that there is no such physical being that produces an energy that is not the preferred type of energy (food and/or atmosphere) of some extra-dimensional being. So to simplify and specify:

It is not that the entity which I interact with is consuming other people's energy, it is that my energy is not available for parasitic consumption by other entities. Moreover, I openly detail methods and dispositions by which other people can do the same - render themselves unsuitable/unable to be 'feasted' on - which is dispositionally opposed to the agendas of entities which approximate individuals who have not cancelled their preexisting contracts.

The adverse response individuals will claim to experience (what is described as a feasting or drain) is the sensation of fear and apprehension exhibited by vampiric entities attached to other people in response to the perception of potential where their tasty and consistent meal might be deprived of them. They see me and recognize that I am off limits, and I represent the potential that <the next person> could become so too if they (the entities) are not careful. This is conjecture of course, but it is consistent with my experience.

One aspect of the realization of sovereignty is refusal to comply with that which is not conducive to sovereign discernment for me or anyone. I cannot decide for other people what entities they would prefer to interact with regardless if they are conscious or not of the interaction, and I find that people are vastly unconscious that they do interact with entities more than they are aware they do by orders of magnitude. I can and would not change this, that is the individual's responsibility; I can but express and advocate by example and disposition.

Admittedly, I have a hard enough time finding individuals open to the idea that there are far more entities wandering around than can be perceived by their 5 senses; telling people about/how to draw boundaries with/for such things is reserved for the intermediate discussions if/when they occur.

Bringing it all together, I appreciate the inquiry that the entity I interact with might be of a benevolent-ish nature toward me and a predatory-ish nature to those around me, it gave me sufficient motivation for an epic-level reevaluation. I can reasonably conclude from that reevaluation that the scenario you describe is not an accurate assessment of the situation.

I perceive that there are far more entities 'floating around people' (whether nearby and/or attached or not) that are interacting with various levels of energy field than is commonly perceived. The entity I interact with is of a type that is dissimilar in intent, motivation, practice, and agenda than those that are more/most commonly observable.

I can state with particular conviction and experience that where/when individuals describe energy having been feasted/vamped/drained, what they are attempting to describe is not consistent with what is occurring, at least in response to any action or proximity to me or 'mine'. Rather than an individual feeling drain as a result of interaction with me and proximity to the entity which I do, the individual experiencing the drain is experiencing some level of response by the entity inhabiting/interacting with them.

Some cases involve entities which will latch onto their host tighter and more exhaustively (the 'you can't have them!' phenomena where the person feels the drain), other cases involve the individual unconsciously manifesting behavior directed/puppeteered by the entity (the 'agent smith' phenomenon where the person is essentially possessed but by all appearance and indication is unchanged). These are just two examples of an exhausting list of potential dynamics which I could only truly address from the standpoint of other individuals.

Beyond all that, it is a lovely song; I've neither heard of it nor the group, but I enjoyed it.

[DNA]

It is not that the entity which I interact with is consuming other people's energy, it is that my energy is not available for parasitic consumption by other entities. Moreover, I openly detail methods and dispositions by which other people can do the same - render themselves unsuitable/unable to be 'feasted' on - which is dispositionally opposed to the agendas of entities which approximate individuals who have not cancelled their preexisting contracts.

Your writing ability is impressive to say the least. You communicate incredibly well.
I know nothing of pre-existing contracts, so I really know nothing in terms of how to cancel or terminate them.
How would one go about understanding and perceiving of their existence?
I would be open to the idea if I could enter into a situation where I could validate it.
But I have a difficult time if it is a prescription based on method rather than interaction.

Is there an experience along this avenue that could shed some light?




I can state with particular conviction and experience that where/when individuals describe energy having been feasted/vamped/drained, what they are attempting to describe is not consistent with what is occurring, at least in response to any action or proximity to me or 'mine'. Rather than an individual feeling drain as a result of interaction with me and proximity to the entity which I do, the individual experiencing the drain is experiencing some level of response by the entity inhabiting/interacting with them.

Just for the record many describe the energy drain as a euphoric experience, so it isn't always an unpleasant experience, even if the end result is a loss of energy.

Those who have been in your proximity and had interactions, how do folks describe these interactions?

[PurpleLama]

Shez, it is possible to see, if such an entity/thoughtform fears to be banished from their chosen food source, they might be seen to embed deeper for a time, and such might naturally interfere with the host's life force energy, hence the feeling of drain.

DNA, this would be different than an entity coaxing its food from its source by engendering good or bad feelings.


I have had similar experiences, although my interpretations may vary. I have also witnessed people becoming mad with rage, almost to the point of foaming at the mouth (literally spitting out their words) when the entities feel threatened, that have hold on them, and this from otherwise self possessed people who generally are unaware of the level of emotion involved in the display when the subject was brought up later. In other instances, I have seen the onset of autoimmune diseases in the given host, when the host kept coming back because the most peace they ever felt was when visiting my home.

There is an ecosystem that we don't see with the physical eyes, I agree. So much crazy sh!t is around us every day, part of why I say the purple pill has inscribed on the side of it DGAF.

[PurpleLama]

This is a "gift" that was given me in '08, which is a pictographic representation of something mysterious to me. Tapping into it is where a lot of help, for my self, and to a lesser extent, for others, has come from. DNA and I have talked of it before, but I would put it here for Dawn and Shez to consider. There is a missing element to the imperfect recreation of the symbol, if anyone is curious about it, pm me. (Sorry for the gigantic size of the pic.)

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=15899&d=1335299075

[PurpleLama]

The first representation I made was a disc of hard bake clay. A few weeks prior a wise woman friend of mine had given me a round tin, in it 12 stones to represent the stones in the breast plate of the high priest, oil for anointing, incense for blessing, and sage for clearing. The disc I created snapped into the tin and could not be removed, unintentionally on my part.

[DNA]

12 stones to represent the stones in the breast plate of the highpriest

This may sound silly, but I have attempted to recreate the effects of such a breast plate by placing crystals in pockets for daily wear. I have never been successful, so there is probably a bit of science in such a breast plate, in so far as crystal selection and exact placement, and possibly even whatever the breast plate alloy or metal is.
In my attempts the crystals caused energy to build where they were placed and the result was a painful stagnation.

I suppose I mention this because I'm of the opinion it could be quite beneficial, especially if made to be inconspicuous and capable of being worn under a shirt or something.


DNA and I have talked of it before

I've meditated on the representation, and I did find it helped entry into a pleasant "protected" meditative state.



I have had similar experiences, although my interpretations may vary. I have also witnessed people becoming mad with rage, almost to the point of foaming at the mouth (literally spitting out their words) when the entities feel threatened, that have hold on them, and this from otherwise self possessed people who generally are unaware of the level of emotion involved in the display when the subject was brought up later.

I work with a guy I've seen this instance happen some half dozen times.
The first time it happened I was so dismayed I didn't know how to react. The second time I incorrectly thought that confronting him would help the situation. We nearly came to blows.
Talking about the situation baffled me to no end. He literally has a different memory of the situation than I do, he normally is a very accountable person and yet will accept none in regards to his actions on these events.

Since then I've become better at seeing the onset of his take over, and I simply disengage from him when this begins.

[Dawn]

Shezbeth, I not only believe you are dealing with a highly conscious entity, I believe that I have also met some of these. Some books on High Magik indicate that there are both highly conscious and 'kind' Jihn, as well as lower conscious and negative Jinh. I'd like to relate a couple of personal experiences in my own life.

POSITIVE ENTITY:
The first positive experience I can relate 2nd hand is a result of my friendship with a loving and highly conscious woman. She had found herself affected by negative entities. Her response was somewhat like yours DNA... she became curious about them. She chose to request contact with a 'higher consciousness' entity instead. She spent about 3 months focusing on this request during a number of her meditations. The result was that she met a being who offered her information about science, and also many of the truths that are now corroborated by many whistleblowers. The information she was given was far in advance of her understanding and took her years of meditation, study, and awareness to understand. Her friend also dictated several books to her and a few of them have been published. Some of these books are still awaiting the appropriate time for publishing. It seems this relationship is a positive one. She claims that during the early years of her friendship her companion was continuously in contact with her, however after about 10 years their relationship developed more spaces. When I spoke to her last she indicated that her friend is only in touch when she requests contact. I am extremely sensitive to energies and I am certain that this being never attacked anyone who was around her.

POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE?
I have another girlfriend who I have known since my childhood. When little she had 'imaginary friends' which she used to play with. One day her mom became angry with her and told her that she would banish them if she continued to waste her time playing with them. The next afternoon as she was playing she heard Mom coming down the hallway and became afraid for her friends. In order to protect them she invited them inside and swallowed them. Fast forward to her life today. Although she is a marvelous friend she also has a dark and scary side. When her scary side shows up, she behaves in a way which might be described as 'evil'. This 'evil' behavior takes the form of suddenly saying and doing things designed to manipulate others by shaming them into obeying her wishes. The result is that the person she focuses on becomes emotionally upset which opens them to vampire entities. I used to spend days after visiting her in cleansing myself from these strange emanations. Finally I broke off the friendship about a year ago. This was sad for me since I believe she is not fully conscious of this situation and I know she felt deeply wounded by the ending of our friendly contact.

[Shezbeth]

Sorry for the book, this thread has that effect on me. If you're wondering 'will he ever stop' (editing/adding) the answer is 'I'm not sure yet'.

While I acknowledge that interactions with the entity have been overwhelmingly positive, I have avoided (at least, I think I have) referring to it as being definitively positive or negative for specific reason.

I could not narrow down my own nature as being positive and negative for numerous reasons. I know how I feel and perceive in regards to my own behavior, motivations, reasoning, agenda, etc. but my own interpretations are invalid outside my own experience. There are many the world over who would describe me as a villain, a scoundrel, and a variety of other things. I could attempt to disqualify such opinions as being woefully inaccurate, naive, ignorant, authoritarian, and heaps of others, but my understanding is that their opinions are as valid as mine (regardless of how effectively or ineffectively they have been formulated). Their opinion is as true as mine, though one might be less subject to criticism than another (also depending on the perceiver). In recognition of this, I will not claim that the entity is positive or negative anymore than I would claim that I am positive or negative. If any leanings are to be observed it would be toward neutrality and a lack of polarization, which in turn allows for the potential of both polarities depending on context.

FWIW Dawn, it is directly/generally appreciative of your/the recognition that it is not inherently negative. It is not dissimilar to how a big, loud, 'scary-looking' dog may just want to play and interact but may be perceived as a threat to one so predisposed/nescient. Much of the available material on extra-dimensional entities isn't exactly flattering and the willingness to 'carefully decide for one's self' has been instrumental in fostering a conducive relationship.

While I have enjoyed the practice of detailing aspects of the entity and will continue to do so I must reiterate that though I have some reasonably probable descriptions and classifications in mind, I really don't know or understand exactly what I am dealing with, its origins/nature/etc. I can definitively state that my interactions with it have been positive (in recognition that my definition of positive may vary significantly from another's), but that does not mean that positive is the only type of action/behavior it is capable of. So, no matter how consistent our interactions have been over time, at no point do I feel in a position to conclude that the entity is positive or negative. As such, I have to admit that while the entity has my appreciation and respect, at NO POINT does it have my unquestioning trust.

If it were to start giving bad advice/direction/input I must operate at a state of ready awareness and respond to it in my best interests. If it were to become a distraction I would need to shut it out. As much esteem as I have for the entity and the interaction, I operate from a 'ready to terminate' state of mind, should it ever become conducive to do so. Not a 'hand on the button' sort of readiness, but a 'button on the desk' sort.

As near as I can tell, (and it has indicated so) the entity respects me for it. To recognize as I have described is a matter and expression of self-respect. I value the interaction and solidarity, but not at the expense of my own integrity and should the latter be threatened the former must go; Appreciation of precedent does not validate non-conducive potential no matter how one slices it. I would not engage in social interactions if a human associate started acting like a douche and engaging in behaviors that were outside my threshold of tolerable/acceptable, and it gets the same treatment. I'm not saying it has ever started acting 'douchey', but if it did I would be ready to appropriately respond.

By all indications, I can most definitively state that the entity has consistently expressed its self as being of a comparable dispositional polarity as my own. So, when I say 'positive' I am more accurately denoting 'consistent with my own disposition, intent, agenda, etc'. In my own head, that speaks volumes, and I apologize if it is not so for the reader. :becky:

As far as perceiving such entities, that's not an easy "cause and effect", or "do this and it will happen" type of 'prescribable' scenario. Countless hours of reading various authors, personal experience, theorizing, and occasional interactions with psychedelics have all culminated in what I describe as perceiving the/such entities. I can say with certainty that Carlos Castaneda's work played a significant role, as did Masaru Emoto's, but only as far as indicating particular sets of potential to be evaluated. I am not sure when I became 'largely' aware of such entities, but I know for certain that it happened well after I had begun interacting with the particular entity I continually reference. The continuity of our interaction has been and remains such that it does not conflict with the dissolution of agreements and contracts which I speak on later.

What I can say is that in times of meditative focus, I noticed that some of the strangest unbidden thoughts would occur to me. In social interactions, I would be able to confirm that those thoughts were originating from another individual. My experience has shown that when a person is A. unrestricted in their thought expression, and/or B. when a person's mind is unobstructed or quiet, they can 'hear' the thoughts occur (though it 'sounds' like the thoughts were self-generated).

If a human associate starts thinking of getting some burgers, the thought of desiring burgers can occur to me, even though I may not be hungry and probably am disinterested in burgers. Still, the thought that occurs to me would be something along the lines of desiring burgers. I did not generate the thought, but a lack of obstacle in their and my own mental processes will allow that thought to transmit to me operating from the same subject tense. I will 'hear' "Burgers would be good" or something along those lines as though I was thinking it, even though Bob is the one thinking it. Bob doesn't typically start his thoughts with "I am Bob and Burgers would be good", so unless one is aware of the mental activity taking place one can misinterpret another's thoughts as their own. This is a simplification of course, the actual experiences involve the names "Matt, Puppy, Blake" etc. and the words "Double-bacon cheeseburger" and other such specifics that have no meaning beyond familiarity of/with the people and objects in question.

I am suddenly reminded of the "Law of One" material, in which every statement by Ra begins with "I am Ra". I don't know that they are associated, but neither would I rule out some form of consistency.

This phenomenon is not exclusive to human v. human interaction, and I suggest this is one of the primary vehicles by which manipulative non-physical entities can direct and/or control humans. Individuals do not generally know/feel/recognize being manipulated or interacted with precisely because they have no bearing on what is/is not their own thoughts. There was a great deal of time between the moment of questioning "Is that my thought?" to the realization that "That is not my thought" before inquiring "Who or what is thinking that thought?". So, one of the key aspects to perceiving such entities would be to (sorry, I know its cliche') Know thyself.


PurpleLama, would it seem odd if I were to state that it looks/feels like that purple circle-thing is looking at me?


As for examples of non-conducive contracts and agreements I can give several. The most classic is that "The physical/observable is all that is", which is one that seems to grip an overwhelming percentage of the population (not to mention fits nicely with the observed/proposed dynamic of more manipulative entities). While I can and have accepted this idea as being 'true', I have long since recognized that at the very least, this perception is an incomplete analysis. Essentially that is all an agreement/contract is, a personal choice to operate as though the terms of the agreement are true, lasting, and binding.

I recognize the phenomenon of gravity and admit my own susceptibility to gravity, but also recognize that gravity is not the sole universal phenomenon nor the exclusive operant force; There are places in which 'gravity doesn't go' or 'isn't found'. A person could rightly describe their experience and say "gravity is a fact of life", but that is not always the case and the unwillingness to identify the areas in which that statement are inaccurate could serve as an obstacle in future endeavors.

Agreements and contracts (ignorance?) then are the antithesis of further inquiry and an open mind, as they make reasonable conclusions seem like definitive facts to the individual. The perception of definitive fact is what limits the intellectual and conceptual progress that a scientist (one who seeks to be scient, not the lab-coat people) would otherwise pursue.

In my own experience, as a developing child I had something of a 'developing' messiah-complex. I perceived that I hadn't manifested as the "second coming" yet but that doing so was/might be inevitable. For years I was on the lookout for my '13 disciples' and to 'awaken the masses' and other such, and I initially saw the increasing development of psychic phenomenon as a positive indicator. I have since realized that while I may have potential that is dissimilar from the 'next person', the idea of being an exhalted reincarnation of previously deified individuals was my attempt to see myself as better and/or greater (more righteous, etc.) in a manner that could be contested but not proven (unless of course, I did do the whole disciple/teaching/martyrdom thing, that would prove it). Moreover, I observe that that is not how the universe tends to operate. The full potential of any human is largely incomprehensible, and not requiring lauded titles or perceptions to operate outside the 'norm' especially since such titles and observations often occur in the aftermath of particular actions or occurrences.

Religious doctrine is one form that is fraught with agreements and contracts. Various texts will assert with 'authority' that something is true, effectively suspending any further inquiry. It is perfectly acceptable to recognize the possibility that Jesus is the lord and savior, that karma and reincarnation are a fact of existence and an aspect if the inherent mechanics, that there is an individual soul and spirit behind all things, etc. but the decision to eliminate the inverse potential (definitively conclude that contrary statements are not true or may not be true) is detrimental (IMO) to the individual's discernment. For me, the biggest step in removing agreements and contracts was to mentally change all "known truths" to "reasonable conclusions" and all "known untruths" to "as-yet unconfirmed hypotheses", in expression/recognition that "I am not the sole arbiter of truth" (which I once perceived myself to be). I find that at best I may approach a perception of truth, but only by continually refining my perceptions and engendering a developing emergent perspective that allows for all observed phenomenon to exist simultaneously and in correspondence.

IMO, the highest expression of 'true authority' - here meaning veracity, competence, familiarity, and response-enabling understanding (obsequent to responsibility) - is to question/inquire (seek to understand) the statements and things which are presented as being from 'an authority'. I have found that the attempt to conclusively establish 'having authority' is the most significant gesture one can make to invalidate their assumed authority, and is one of the simplest methods of differentiating between an 'actual' authority and one who is subject to authoritarian programming.

More specifically, I have found that just 'behind' the unwillingness to question 'authority' is evidence indicating a lack of authority, which would indicate the motivation of an authoritarian to not question.

As such, I attempt to avoid rigid, uncontestable observations in favor of presenting the contextual observations and data I have accumulated over time. I indicate possibilities, plausibilities, probabilities, and reasonable conclusions in favor of 'truth'. I'm not attempting to toot my own horn, this is all a result of a dissolution of non-conducive thought patterns and perceptions, which is precisely what resulted of my efforts to remove non-conducive agreements and contracts.

In relation to my earlier post about other people's perceptions during interaction, this presents a number of possibilities.

It is well possible that entities around others are adverse to the entity that is around me and respond accordingly (either to me or it). It is equally possible that individuals do not like being reminded of the fallibility of their own perspective, which occurs by my own open and vocal observance of the fallibility of mine. My experience is that most individuals prefer to perceive themselves 'as being' (be, from their perspective) "right"; whether it is me, the entity, or both that are in conflict with this perception, 'we' are not generally appreciated by most others who maintain agreements that are premature and unbinding (outside of a contract). However, it is not because of 'us' that we are perceived as adversaries; that is part of the agreement(s) others have already made which is to perceive adverary(-ies) in those who question (literally or implicitly) the agreements they/any have made.

I have been told that this unwillingess to be subject (mutually agree) to other individual's agreements comes across as 'seeing myself better than others' or 'perceiving myself above the truth', though this is not the case. This has especially been my experience/others' testament when dealing with heavily-indoctrinated groups such as Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Baptists, etc. Such have been more than want to denounce my interactions (I have been open about the entity to them too) as 'listening to and/or following the devil', hence my signature*. These are many of the individuals who I reference when describing the negative reactions I have observed/experienced from others, though not exclusively so. Whether there is an entity behind such individuals' adherence to authoritarian agreements or not is irrelevant to me, though I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility.

* - I could go on for pages detailing the observed/-able double standards, hypocrisy, and denial exhibited by such individuals.

[DNA]

POSITIVE ENTITY:
The first positive experience I can relate 2nd hand is a result of my friendship with a loving and highly conscious woman. She had found herself affected by negative entities. Her response was somewhat like yours DNA... she became curious about them. She chose to request contact with a 'higher consciousness' entity instead. She spent about 3 months focusing on this request during a number of her meditations. The result was that she met a being who offered her information about science, and also many of the truths that are now corroborated by many whistleblowers. The information she was given was far in advance of her understanding and took her years of meditation, study, and awareness to understand. Her friend also dictated several books to her and a few of them have been published. Some of these books are still awaiting the appropriate time for publishing. It seems this relationship is a positive one. She claims that during the early years of her friendship her companion was continuously in contact with her, however after about 10 years their relationship developed more spaces. When I spoke to her last she indicated that her friend is only in touch when she requests contact. I am extremely sensitive to energies and I am certain that this being never attacked anyone who was around her.

I see what you are saying, and it must be quite powerful to see something like this in terms of it being a close friend.
My knee jerk reaction and gut feeling would be to say that cohabitation of your mind/body matrix is probably not a good idea. But some of the absolute most powerful messages mankind has been gifted in the last 100 years came from folks who have allowed this.
Edgar Cayce, Jane Roberts, and the folks who contributed to the original Michael Teachings, The Urantia book as well to a slightly lesser extent.
These folks allowed a complete takeover, and their results can not be argued with.
These entities were positive, powerful and next to omniscient.

I've had my own experiences as well. Entities that I knew were positive and on the up and up. Though I never had them enter my mind/body matrix, their visitations were welcome. HERE (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?22614-Holographically-Projected-Human-Alien-Healers)


POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE?
I have another girlfriend who I have known since my childhood. When little she had 'imaginary friends' which she used to play with. One day her mom became angry with her and told her that she would banish them if she continued to waste her time playing with them. The next afternoon as she was playing she heard Mom coming down the hallway and became afraid for her friends. In order to protect them she invited them inside and swallowed them. Fast forward to her life today. Although she is a marvelous friend she also has a dark and scary side. When her scary side shows up, she behaves in a way which might be described as 'evil'. This 'evil' behavior takes the form of suddenly saying and doing things designed to manipulate others by shaming them into obeying her wishes. The result is that the person she focuses on becomes emotionally upset which opens them to vampire entities. I used to spend days after visiting her in cleansing myself from these strange emanations. Finally I broke off the friendship about a year ago. This was sad for me since I believe she is not fully conscious of this situation and I know she felt deeply wounded by the ending of our friendly contact.

I have a friend like that as well.
The Henry character I mentioned earlier.
When we were kids, I held him in such high regard. He was of the highest character, and such that I considered him one of the bravest people I had ever met.
He could always be "exactly" who he is. He never felt the need to tell half truths, conceal things, lie or participate in any kind of deception, not because he couldn't, but because he was brave enough to stay true to who he was. Not an easy thing to do in public grade school and high school.
It was as if he had a natural suit of armor, and negative opinions bounced right off of him, not because he didn't hear them, but because of how strong his convictions were in who he was.
He WAS a good man, even before he was old enough to be called a man.

His standards and ethics were amazing.
And then his kingdom fell apart. He slept with one of our best friends little sisters. The age difference was bad enough, but the betrayal of having done this to a good friend was unforgivable. And so you would think this is what damaged the armor, and it contributed, but the real damage came through the four years of lying and deception that followed. He could no longer honestly project the image of who he was any more, because he wasn't that person. And so he began looking for that person in the eyes of others. And that's were his need and cravings for approval in the eyes of everyone around him began. This led to his need to become a rockstar, and he being in hollywood, you can only imagine how much worse it got.

I can not hang around him anymore. I can't even be in his presence.
It's the old saying "who you are speaks so loudly I cannot hear what you say" in so far as it relates to him. So yea, I know what you are saying Dawn.

[DNA]

I can say with certainty that Carlos Castaneda's work played a significant role, as did Masaru Emoto's, but only as far as indicating particular sets of potential to be evaluated.

I could hear the Castaneda in terms of your commendable "detachment" from the situation. I will state this when it comes to Castaneda, without his open eye meditation on small pebble shadows and pebbles themselves, and his constant reiteration on "detachment", I would never have gotten anywhere with this stuff.

I have read the works of Jay Courtney Fikes and Richard Demilles who made careers in debunking Castaneda. After reading their works and doing my own research into what his colleagues had to say about him, I become more convinced than ever that Castaneda had some type of informant, and that he didn't just go to the desert drop peyote and freestyle his work.

It is my opinion that Castaneda had a predilluvian informant.
Someone with access to information that was Atlantean in nature.

But, that is just my take.



I hope to reply more later.
I apologize but duty calls.

Again, I really enjoy reading your material.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT



Religious doctrine is one form that is fraught with agreements and contracts. Various texts will assert with 'authority' that something is true, effectively suspending any further inquiry. It is perfectly acceptable to recognize the possibility that Jesus is the lord and savior, that karma and reincarnation are a fact of existence and an aspect if the inherent mechanics, that there is an individual soul and spirit behind all things, etc. but the decision to eliminate the inverse potential (definitively conclude that contrary statements are not true or may not be true) is detrimental (IMO) to the individual's discernment. For me, the biggest step in removing agreements and contracts was to mentally change all "known truths" to "reasonable conclusions" and all "known untruths" to "as-yet unconfirmed hypotheses", in expression/recognition that "I am not the sole arbiter of truth" (which I once perceived myself to be). I find that at best I may approach a perception of truth, but only by continually refining my perceptions and engendering a developing emergent perspective that allows for all observed phenomenon to exist simultaneously and in correspondence.


I can understand what you are saying here when it comes to religion, and it's role as mind control.

For me, a strong liberator was discovering the origin of satan in Judaic lore coming from Zoroastrianism's Angra Manu.
This helped quite a bit, because I had a lingering "what if I'm wrong, I might burn forever" kind of thing going on.

[Dawn]

Shezbeth: .....As for examples of non-conducive contracts and agreements I can give several. The most classic is that "The physical/observable is all that is", which is one that seems to grip an overwhelming percentage of the population (not to mention fits nicely with the observed/proposed dynamic of more manipulative entities). While I can and have accepted this idea as being 'true', I have long since recognized that at the very least, this perception is an incomplete analysis. Essentially that is all an agreement/contract is, a personal choice to operate as though the terms of the agreement are true, lasting, and binding.

..........Agreements and contracts (ignorance?) then are the antithesis of further inquiry and an open mind, as they make reasonable conclusions seem like definitive facts to the individual. The perception of definitive fact is what limits the intellectual and conceptual progress....

In my own experience, as a developing child I had something of a 'developing' messiah-complex. I perceived that I hadn't manifested as the "second coming" yet but that doing so was/might be inevitable. For years I was on the lookout for my '13 disciples' and to 'awaken the masses' and other such, and I initially saw the increasing development of psychic phenomenon as a positive indicator. I have since realized that while I may have potential that is dissimilar from the 'next person', the idea of being an exalted reincarnation of previously deified individuals was my attempt to see myself as better and/or greater (more righteous, etc.) in a manner that could be contested but not proven (unless of course, I did do the whole disciple/teaching/martyrdom thing, that would prove it). Moreover, I observe that that is not how the universe tends to operate. The full potential of any human is largely incomprehensible, and not requiring lauded titles or perceptions to operate outside the 'norm' especially since such titles and observations often occur in the aftermath of particular actions or occurrences.



DNA: .......When we were kids, I held him in such high regard. He was of the highest character, and such that I considered him one of the bravest people I had ever met.
He could always be "exactly" who he is. He never felt the need to tell half truths, conceal things, lie or participate in any kind of deception, not because he couldn't, but because he was brave enough to stay true to who he was. Not an easy thing to do in public grade school and high school.
It was as if he had a natural suit of armor, and negative opinions bounced right off of him, not because he didn't hear them, but because of how strong his convictions were in who he was.
He WAS a good man, even before he was old enough to be called a man.

His standards and ethics were amazing.
And then his kingdom fell apart. He slept with one of our best friends little sisters. The age difference was bad enough, but the betrayal of having done this to a good friend was unforgivable. And so you would think this is what damaged the armor, and it contributed, but the real damage came through the four years of lying and deception that followed. He could no longer honestly project the image of who he was any more

This is WHY I started this thread! Thank you both. Here is what I see when I look at what you have contributed.

Shezbeth's eloquent mention of how utterly amazing a human might be, yet how we have made a (mostly) culture wide agreement that we will only admit what we can experience with our 5 basic human senses.

+ (PLUS)
DNA's clear understanding that when we agree to live a life of deception and lies we lose ourselves and our ability to resonate as the amazing beings we are.

So... this thread has been looking at our agreement to lie about the world beyond our 5 senses and what this is doing to all of humanity.

One of the hallmarks of a spiritually developing human is the dawning ability to open senses beyond the 5 that are commonly spoken of. It is normal for an open minded person to begin to use their 'minds eye' (3rd eye, pineal, etc),
............. to directly feel prana (chi, energy, etc) as it moves or when it is stuck,
..........................to heighten their perception until they can 'see' with the cells of their hands and feet.
And so on.

As this occurs, we become aware of the life forms mentioned in this thread. If you lie to yourself and others about their existence, you are moving into the energy of self deception and lying. Thus you lose the ability to continue to grow into your potential. You can no longer honestly project the image of who you are any more (in DNA's eloquent words)

A great deal of time is spent here on Avalon looking at how TPTB are attempting to prevent us from conscious expansion. Most of us cannot do a lot about their choices. But we can look at our own agreements and choose to drop the ones that harm us.

I made my agreement to ignore the 'other dimensional' entities when I was a tiny tot. My parents would come into my room when I called them at night and look into the closet and under my bed at my urging. Then they would say, 'Dawnie, there is nothing there... it is just your imagination'. They would keep saying this until I agreed.... even though I knew what they were getting me to agree to was a lie. Eventually I turned and faced my lies. I stopped agreeing to participate in the deception. This allowed me to grow beyond it and to achieve more of my potential.

And Shezbeth... regarding being a messiah... any spiritually expansive person worth their salt has this one. I really like the response that Ramdas gave to his brother (who had been institutionalized because he thought he was Jesus)......
"Yes, I also know that I am Jesus. The difference between you and me, is that you believe you are the only one. I see that we are all Christ."

[Shezbeth]

I would like to interject in the ongoing discussion to point out a post which is a few months old, but IMO is one of the most crucial aspects to discussions including - but not limited to - this thread. I only just discovered it, and I won't quote as its in a Members Only subforum.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?64182-Visionaries-and-Seers&p=762652&viewfull=1#post762652

This post, and the others in the thread in relation (HIGHLY recommended IMO) have been like a knock upside the head. I encourage participants to check it out, as - in its own right - it has everything to do with the discussion/developments going on in this one. Perhaps in a way, it is equally (more?) significant and consequential to the individual's development.

[DNA]

In the spirit of sharing information that has pinged rather well while participating on this thread, I will list the video with Jay Weidner.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPr25wZWPSQ

Jay covers a lot of information in this video, but something that struck a chord in me was his talking about the planet Saturn.

Saturn being the representative of the god Kronos, the god who fathered the original greek/roman gods, and this planet's astrological relationship with the archons.


Kronos, being the one who swallows us ALL in the illusian of time, thus removing access to our multidimensionality, our ability to manifest in these aspects simultaneously would probably cause us to regain something akin to godhood if we could only escape the belly of this beast.
This mind locking, soul sucking illusian acts as the ultimate prison so to speak.


http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0119/5392/products/cronos_statue_1024x1024.jpg?v=1364501078

I think it worth mentioning also that in my searches for a representation of cronos I found this very archonic looking figure.

http://www.crystalinks.com/cronus.gif

Strangely enough I had this song on my playlist (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3Jkj_UvjeQ)and it popped on right after I watched this video.
Pretty amazing really, the writer of the song seems to have been aware of this stuff.

http://www.novareinna.com/festive/glass.jpg

I have heard time and time again, that in the afterworld there is no such thing as time.
I think that is hard to understand for a myriad of reasons, but I believe it to be the truth.

I had a dream with a girlfriend of mine a few years back. In it I became lucid, and then went about exercising dream control, the weird thing for me was that I completely forgot about my girlfriend in the dream with me. I then wanted to know what she was doing in her dream, so I visited it/her.
After I disengaged from her, she went about her dream "uninterrupted", for she had made a perfect replica of me in the dream to continue on with her and keep dream continuity. Now here is the weird part, when I wanted to know how her dream was going, I MERGED with the copy she had made of me. Upon merging with the copy of me she had made or the "doppleganger", I became aware of everything the copy had done in my absense, as if they were MY memories in the dream, and further the doppleganger had acted EXACTLY as I would have.

The reason for this relates with time, and the idea of it as a trap.

You see, Lisa was able to make an exact copy of me, because she has enough of me in her to create me at all times, and here is the weird part, we all have this of everyone, and we can manifest it anytime we want.

Especially in the spirit world.

We are all a multidimensional yin and yang.

Only the crazy part is we have a little bit of everyone in us in that little speck, and we are a part of everyone else in their little speck.


http://www.1000ventures.com/design_elements/selfmade/yin-yang.jpg




I know this is weird to mention and I do not mean to get overly dark, for I believe to do so is morbid, but I found this little tidbit stated by HP Blavatsky.


MADAME HELENA BLAVATSKY

Helena Blavatsky, the mother of the New Age movement says in her book titled “Isis Unveiled":

“….the Palestinian Baal, or Moloch, and Saturn are identical”….(emphasis mine)

Isis Unveiled
Helena Blavatsky
pg. 548

Madame Blavatsky also states that “The god of time was Chium in Egypt, or Saturn..”


From what I've heard, the cremation of care is dedicated to the god Moloch.

This being the ceremony Alex Jones outed at the Bohemian Grove. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGfizO5KNZY)


I should also mention that Jay Weidner in the original video posted explains how in the Stanley Kubrick movie 2010 a space oddysey, how the obelisk found in the proximity of Saturn seemed to imbue those in proximity with the ability to over come the prison of time.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Okay, this is the last tid bit about Saturn and Time. I was trolling some old threads, when I ran into this little tidbit by Rhakyt from almost a year ago. It was actually a response to me, and yet the topic at the time had nothing to do with time. It's so weird, it felt like a response to this very post.



Today, Laura Eisenhower put this status on her FB page, from the Sacred Destinations (http://sacreddestinations.org/) website:

"July 25th is known as the Day Out of Time, since it is a day that belongs neither to the last cycle or the next one. It is a day of stillness, the birth place for Creation to renew Itself. Certain days hold the ability to activate and amplify intentions; this is one such day where we can place our intentions of peace and love to initiate the new Mayan year and beginning of the next 26,000 year cycle.

[Shezbeth]

Thank you DNA, I felt like a stuck record for a bit until your post jarred me back into motion.

I have been contemplating lately about a particular theory that goes a little out-there, but relates directly to your Saturn/Time/Baal/Moloch reference. For the record, I attempt to answer all my hypothetical questions with "Yes and no, and how/why (to both)" until I am able to overwhelmingly discount one possible answer, I thoroughly exhaust the possibilities, and/or I reach an impasse or limitation to my understanding that prevents further inquiry.

'Is it possible that the holographic/illusory physical world which we inhabit is the embodiment of a/the extra-dimensional entities?'

This thought occurred to me while discussing the Djinn with an Islamist I speak to on occasion, who was attempting to describe the nature and substance of Djinn from his understanding. He described them as 'smokeless fire' as many texts do, and when I asked him to elaborate he referenced the concept of Mirage, and the visual distortion that occurs on the horizon as a wave/shimmer that can obstruct one's ability to see beyond a certain point.

From a scientific standpoint, I realize he was describing the phenomenon of heat waves and thermal patterns that are apparent over distance, especially visible in desert areas. However, while observing what he was talking about I wondered if that wasn't 'just' a scientific attempt at explaining evidence of a greater phenomenon. If the Djinn were substantially 'that' wavy-ness which is directly tied into 'what a person can and cannot see', is it not possible that everything that is/can be seen is a product or a result of that wave? Moreover, as physical reality is both a wave and a particle, is it possible that that wave which was indicated is the same as the lack of apparent wave?

Simply, and in relation to the first question, what if all we see and have ever seen with our eyes is a result of looking at the Djinn and not comprehending what we are seeing but seeking to do so, thus resulting in the expansive and apparently infinite reality we participate in?

Further, what if there is and has been only one Djinni operating in every possible capacity (including apparently side-by-side simultaneously)? Another theory I had entertained years ago in discussion with numerous devout Christians (of different denominations) was 'What if God and the Devil were the same singular entity playing at both sides of a chess board, wearing different masks?'. I am not saying that the Djinn or a Djinni is God or the devil, but I am saying that such an entity could appear so to humans. An extra-dimensional that was so inclined could quite possibly appear as being infinite by playing on the failings and limitations of human perception. Heck, as a kid I figured out how to do it just with the ability to pause and resume the flow of time.

And now we come back to it. Time. Only once (during an experience with DMT) did I ever experience a dimension that could be said to be outside the flow of time. It was like being in a particularly technologically advanced office building (yet without an 'outside') with cubicles and areas assigned to various aspects of 'lower' dimensions. In this experience I was an anomaly/visitor who was catered to; I communicated with several 'operators' who all appeared as luminate humans to me (emanating light from within, I suspect as a result of my attempts to personify them) but who only stopped what they were 'doing' for the interaction, but who otherwise were endlessly engaged in their tasks. No specifics were expressed regarding 'individual' tasks, and to be honest I can't say that it wasn't the same entity operating in different areas of the 'building' simultaneously. It/they didn't have names or designations, and it is quite possible that my perception of difference in task and location was more of a product of my attempt to conceive of such a thing. I truly can't be certain as to whether it was one entity manning everything, or if it was countless entities operating simultaneously.

All these thoughts, questions, observations, etc. have resulted in the following conundrum in relation to the above about Saturn.

Could Kronos, aka both Father Time and Death (the grim reaper) be the reality that surrounds us? If so, does that not mean that death is the only way by which we can escape? For more on that: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68124-Thoughts-on-Existence

And, in reference to the dynamic which Dawn pointed out as a collection of ideas in the thread:

IF Kronos (simplified for reference) IS the reality we observe, AND the principal limiting agreement which people make is that the observable is all that is REAL,...

Could it not then be said that the overwhelming majority seem to have made the agreement that a/the Djinn is all that is real?

I ask that question without invalidating all manner of physical and non-physical phenomena. I am quite aware of countless physical phenomena, and I am in the camp of "Quite confident (bordering on certainty) of ETs and extra-planetary activity". All that is true or reasonably conclusive as far as I am concerned, what I am addressing is what all that is made of.

Science says that the Higgs-Boson is the god particle,... I am quite nescient as far as that is concerned and thus far ignorant of most publications and research, but simply wonder what IT is comprised of? Djinn maybe?

Overall Edit: I should mention that while/when I refer to 'reasonable conclusions', they originate from me (or the individual) so I should further elaborate by describing them as 'Biased, reasonable conclusions'.

[DNA]

Thank you DNA, I felt like a stuck record for a bit until your post jarred me back into motion.

I have been contemplating lately about a particular theory that goes a little out-there, but relates directly to your Saturn/Time/Baal/Moloch reference. For the record, I attempt to answer all my hypothetical questions with "Yes and no, and how/why (to both)" until I am able to overwhelmingly discount one possible answer, I thoroughly exhaust the possibilities, and/or I reach an impasse or limitation to my understanding that prevents further inquiry.

'Is it possible that the holographic/illusory physical world which we inhabit is the embodiment of a/the extra-dimensional entities?'

The Gnostics state this. They say all life as we know it sprang from an imperfect creature named "Yaldaboath", this being the old testament Yeweh. This Yaldaboath sought to keep his spark returning to him and as such needed to trick mankind into reincarnation so to speak. The snake in the garden of eden being the first incarnation of Christ who was attempting to free mankind through the sacrement of knowledge symjbolized by the apple from the tree of life.

You hear a lot from folks quoting the Gnostics and mentioning the archons, but they don't mention this Yaldaboath aspect very often.

It sounds a lot like the Babylonian myth of Tiamat, and how all of life and the earth are living in a universe produced by the dead body of Tiamat.


Although there are no early precedents for it, some sources identify her with images of a sea serpent or dragon.[2] In the Enûma Elish, the Babylonian epic of creation, she gives birth to the first generation of deities; her husband, Aspu, later makes war upon them and is killed. When she, too, wars upon her husband's murderers, she is then slain by Ea's son, the storm-god Marduk. The heavens and the earth are formed from her divided body. WIKI HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiamat)






This thought occurred to me while discussing the Djinn with an Islamist I speak to on occasion, who was attempting to describe the nature and substance of Djinn from his understanding. He described them as 'smokeless fire' as many texts do, and when I asked him to elaborate he referenced the concept of Mirage, and the visual distortion that occurs on the horizon as a wave/shimmer that can obstruct one's ability to see beyond a certain point.

I just want to state one thing here. I have never knowingly seen a Djinn. And further, I do not know if I want to. But I have seen a butt load of ghosts, and they always appear to me in this manner of a visual distortion of heat down the road which is typically associated with a mirage. I think the second description given is one of ghosts, or folks who have exited their bodies and haven't moved on.





From a scientific standpoint, I realize he was describing the phenomenon of heat waves and thermal patterns that are apparent over distance, especially visible in desert areas. However, while observing what he was talking about I wondered if that wasn't 'just' a scientific attempt at explaining evidence of a greater phenomenon. If the Djinn were substantially 'that' wavy-ness which is directly tied into 'what a person can and cannot see', is it not possible that everything that is/can be seen is a product or a result of that wave? Moreover, as physical reality is both a wave and a particle, is it possible that that wave which was indicated is the same as the lack of apparent wave?

I hear what you are saying. I've thought along these similiar lines using the simplified explanation of particle physics given in "The Dancing Wu Li Masters" and David Talbot's "The Halographic Universe".

I don't really have anything to offer on this point other than this.

I think the original texts that talk about these folks being smoky would actually differentiate them from being the wavy heat on the road manifestation.

Phillip J. Imbrogno and Rosemary Ellen Guiley talk about the Djinn in this interview here, and they seem to know what they are talking about.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvex0DWoMG8


Further, it seems to me that Castaneda's inorganic beings could be classified as Djinn. Especially how they were of a different energy than we are, and that they craved the energy we have, and as such conditional contracts could be set up between a sorceror and a inorganic being "Djinn" with this kind of exchange in mind.


I think for me one of the best representations of the Djinn, was the monster depicted in "LOST".



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-Y64_GWpHw




Simply, and in relation to the first question, what if all we see and have ever seen with our eyes is a result of looking at the Djinn and not comprehending what we are seeing but seeking to do so, thus resulting in the expansive and apparently infinite reality we participate in?

Further, what if there is and has been only one Djinni operating in every possible capacity (including apparently side-by-side simultaneously)? Another theory I had entertained years ago in discussion with numerous devout Christians (of different denominations) was 'What if God and the Devil were the same singular entity playing at both sides of a chess board, wearing different masks?'. I am not saying that the Djinn or a Djinni is God or the devil, but I am saying that such an entity could appear so to humans. An extra-dimensional that was so inclined could quite possibly appear as being infinite by playing on the failings and limitations of human perception. Heck, as a kid I figured out how to do it just with the ability to pause and resume the flow of time.

When looping into the existential realms of circular logic, I try to simplify as much as possible.

For me it is simply as Pam Reynolds states in this video documenting her Near Death Experience.
We reincarnate, we spend some time in a heaven of sorts inbetween those reincarnations, and visit with folks we have known for whatever you call eternity in a place where time does not exist.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNbdUEqDB-k

So I suppose what I'm saying is this.
Regardless of the source of our spark, and the elaborately maintained illusians, we are in control on a soul level, and we chose to be here.


And now we come back to it. Time. Only once (during an experience with DMT) did I ever experience a dimension that could be said to be outside the flow of time. It was like being in a particularly technologically advanced office building (yet without an 'outside') with cubicles and areas assigned to various aspects of 'lower' dimensions. In this experience I was an anomaly/visitor who was catered to; I communicated with several 'operators' who all appeared as luminate humans to me (emanating light from within, I suspect as a result of my attempts to personify them) but who only stopped what they were 'doing' for the interaction, but who otherwise were endlessly engaged in their tasks. No specifics were expressed regarding 'individual' tasks, and to be honest I can't say that it wasn't the same entity operating in different areas of the 'building' simultaneously. It/they didn't have names or designations, and it is quite possible that my perception of difference in task and location was more of a product of my attempt to conceive of such a thing. I truly can't be certain as to whether it was one entity manning everything, or if it was countless entities operating simultaneously.

These glimpses are so different for folks. I think it is to do with which aspect of your multidimensionality you are manifesting in, and as such perceiving through when the event takes place. So many different stories because there are so many aspects with unique perceptions and probably in differing locations. I've never imbibed the sacred vine, nor DMT, yet I had an experience as well in so far as it relates to manifesting in a normally dormant aspect of myself.

In 2005 I took the year to reflect and meditate. I had made some real break throughs so to speak.
Powerfull break throughs in consciousness and the arrangement of powers that over see our planet.
I became aware that we are multidimensional beings, but, it wasn't just that I was aware of that, it was that I was becoming capable of actualizing and manifesting into some of these dormant layers. At one point some two hours deep in meditation, I awoke in a setting where atrophied higher D layers of mankind lied still and lifeless, cocooned, and there before me was a type of walking stick humanoid, this walking stick humanoid was toiling amungst the higher D atrophied humans, he was harvesting a prize from these people,,,a energetic prize.

Intuitivelly I felt that mankind was a resource for alien cultures we know nothing of. Alien, mutlidimensional, dead/alive, there are other questions to answer here.
Wether this energy is used for casual day to day life I do not know,,,,but I don't think so.
Some part of me thinks it is used to sustain those who wish to live forever. Wether these long lived alien folks attempt their immortallity in physical bodies,,,or astral type bodies I do not know.

What I do know is this, after my break through so to speak I suffered a major set back.
And to be truthful, I have never attempted to actualize my multidimensional aspects.
What I say next sounds, well, kind of crazy, but I will state it.

After this meditation I mentioned above, I saw what looked like a tentacle, an energetic searching tentacle coming through my ceiling.
And this is going to sound a little crazy, but, I saw what looked like energetic tentacles coming through the ceiling, searching for something.
When they seem to have found me, these attacks began.
The attacks were pangs of intense fear and paranoia.
These attacks were focused on my cerebellum,,,the top of the spine, where the second second brain is so to speak.
I could even hear a cracking noise coming from the cerebellum area, not the spine.
This popping sound coming from the cerebellum was followed by extreme pangs of paranoia.
This intense, persistent paranoia lasted for three terrible days.
In a gambit to end the attack I promised not to meditate so deep and I did a series of things to lower my vibrations.
This as sad as it is to say,,,worked in despelling the paranoia attacks.

I do feel uneasy posting this last bit.
I would suggest ignoring it if it makes you feel uneasy.
Some things do not have easy answers, and as such, it is better to try not to ask questions if there are no solutions.



All these thoughts, questions, observations, etc. have resulted in the following conundrum in relation to the above about Saturn.

Could Kronos, aka both Father Time and Death (the grim reaper) be the reality that surrounds us? If so, does that not mean that death is the only way by which we can escape? For more on that: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68124-Thoughts-on-Existence

And, in reference to the dynamic which Dawn pointed out as a collection of ideas in the thread:

IF Kronos (simplified for reference) IS the reality we observe, AND the principal limiting agreement which people make is that the observable is all that is REAL,...

Could it not then be said that the overwhelming majority seem to have made the agreement that a/the Djinn is all that is real?

I ask that question without invalidating all manner of physical and non-physical phenomena. I am quite aware of countless physical phenomena, and I am in the camp of "Quite confident (bordering on certainty) of ETs and extra-planetary activity". All that is true or reasonably conclusive as far as I am concerned, what I am addressing is what all that is made of.

Science says that the Higgs-Boson is the god particle,... I am quite nescient as far as that is concerned and thus far ignorant of most publications and research, but simply wonder what IT is comprised of? Djinn maybe?

Overall Edit: I should mention that while/when I refer to 'reasonable conclusions', they originate from me (or the individual) so I should further elaborate by describing them as 'Biased, reasonable conclusions'.


I have no answers here, but these are the same things I ponder as well.

[onawah]

If the Annunaki are truly Djinn, as Simon Parkes and others have suggested, then I think information from the recent addition to the Wingmakers site is relevant to this discussion. See:
http://thoughtcomputing.org/wp-content/themes/wingmaker/style/dark/pdffiles/The%20Fifth%20Interview%20of%20Dr.%20Neruda.pdf
And see the thread at:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70855-Latest-from-Kerry-Cassidy-WINGMAKERS-James-Releases-Interview-5&p=827992#post827992

[Shezbeth]

Would you care to indicate how this material might be relevant to the discussion? Perhaps a summary, a cross-reference, or a continuation of previous comments?

You may have noticed that there is more discussion taking place in this thread than link posting,....

[onawah]

Yes, certainly I noticed, but I wanted to bring the new Wingmakers "interview" to the attention of the readers of this thread if they had not yet noticed it.
I have not finished reading the Wingmakers interview yet myself (I hope to finish it tonight), and it's in pdf form, which I don't know how to copy and paste, and that makes discussion more difficult and time consuming.
There is such a lot of material there that discussion will only be interesting if everyone involved has read it, which I doubt is the case as yet.
And, finally, I don't have a lot of time just now...

[Shezbeth]

Without diving into 80 pages of information,....

It is certainly within the threshold of possibility that the Djinn are comparable/same as the Annunaki, but that strikes me as less plausible. I find it far more plausible to think of the Djinn (at least, in comparison to them being potentially the fabric of the 'real and physical') as the Demiurge (Archons, arch-angels/demons, etc). Certainly though, neither can be ruled out.

If I recall, the Annunaki were the Sumerian deities that may have originated and/or resided on Wormwood/Nibiru (and likely still do in that event). If I were to further recall, the Annunaki were the offspring and/or the genetic combination of native homonids and the Demiurge. If my recollection is accurate, that would put the Annunaki more long the lines of the Draconis reptilians than the Djinn, though either grouping is said to be sufficiently advanced to operate in a similar superior manner as relates to humans and Earth.

I for one will peruse the information presented when available, but consuming 80 pages isn't/shouldn't be a prerequisite to continuing an ongoing discussion IMO.

[onawah]

I wasn't meaning to suggest that consuming 80 pages of information from Wingmakers should be a prerequisite to continuing an ongoing discussion.
I just thought the info might be of interest.
My definition of the Annunaki's identity, history, source, etc. has changed considerably after reading Simon Parkes' thread, and the Wingmakers interview is corroborating that new definition.
But it's complicated, and I couldn't really summarize it with clarity in one conversation, particularly with my current time constraints.
It was not my intention to disrupt this thread, just to make a small contribution, hopefully.

Without diving into 80 pages of information,....

It is certainly within the threshold of possibility that the Djinn are comparable/same as the Annunaki, but that strikes me as less plausible. I find it far more plausible to think of the Djinn (at least, in comparison to them being potentially the fabric of the 'real and physical') as the Demiurge (Archons, arch-angels/demons, etc). Certainly though, neither can be ruled out.

If I recall, the Annunaki were the Sumerian deities that may have originated and/or resided on Wormwood/Nibiru (and likely still do in that event). If I were to further recall, the Annunaki were the offspring and/or the genetic combination of native homonids and the Demiurge. If my recollection is accurate, that would put the Annunaki more long the lines of the Draconis reptilians than the Djinn, though either grouping is said to be sufficiently advanced to operate in a similar superior manner as relates to humans and Earth.

I for one will peruse the information presented when available, but consuming 80 pages isn't/shouldn't be a prerequisite to continuing an ongoing discussion IMO.

[Shezbeth]

Phillip J. Imbrogno and Rosemary Ellen Guiley talk about the Djinn in this interview here, and they seem to know what they are talking about.

I very much appreciate this interview, it is relatively simple and concise. The theories and ideas are presented in a manner that does not contest existing theories and concepts such as appear in this thread. I found it quite compelling and voluntarily continued through the other 4 parts of the video. I'm not saying it is authoritative, but it certainly makes an effective attempt to approach an authoritative discourse.


... I think information from the recent addition to the Wingmakers site is relevant to this discussion.

Respectfully, I disagree. Admittingly, I only read the first 30+ pages before I became unwilling to continue; I recognize that the subject matter might become flush with what I would agree to being compelling information, but I am in doubt. In particular, I found the interviewee's stance of presumed authority to be distasteful and discrediting, especially considering the questionable origin of the information.

Further admitting, one could easily level such charges against the examples, theories, perceptions, and 'reasonable' conclusions I and others present in this discussion, but this is why there seems an absence of definitive conviction to the information presented beyond a theoretical basis; Dr. Neruda expresses no such doubt, even when sometimes relying on the presumed authority of the Wingmakers he refers to.

In all fairness there are observably consistent ideas and references made such as the trans-humanist movement among the elite, but the conclusions that lead to and result of those observable consistencies is at times awkward, loose, and in some cases incredible (especially page ~27 IMO). Individual results may vary.

I am not saying that there is no room for discussion of this material at all, I am admitting a personal failure to see how the information presented is relevant/applicable to the this one.
I am also (not-so) subtly alluding to several phenomenon that have been mentioned/referenced variously over the course of the discussion. :becky:

[DNA]

Yes, certainly I noticed, but I wanted to bring the new Wingmakers "interview" to the attention of the readers of this thread if they had not yet noticed it.
I have not finished reading the Wingmakers interview yet myself (I hope to finish it tonight), and it's in pdf form, which I don't know how to copy and paste, and that makes discussion more difficult and time consuming.
There is such a lot of material there that discussion will only be interesting if everyone involved has read it, which I doubt is the case as yet.
And, finally, I don't have a lot of time just now...

I found the wingmakers material compelling. I think it does a poor job of painting the picture in so far as it relates to the enormity of our worlds black budget, underground city breakaway civilization.
I'm guessing you are making a correlation between the fallen angelic types who habitat biological robots with the Djinn?

I can see where you could take this, I suppose there is no way to argue for or against it.


One of the things I found that correlates with the wingmakers idea of souls that wish to step out of the natural order set by God and reside in bodies of robotic manufacture was the ALIEN INTERVIEW by Matilda MacElroy.



In the WingMakers (http://www.wingmakers.com/arrow/acio/Sauthers.html) information, we find talk of a race of biological robots from another galaxy, these robots do indeed have souls. And they find life such as ours invaluable for our genetic, or DNA input that they may or may not incorporate into their own.



John Lear is the reason I read the Alien Interview, he recommends it even though it has been proven a work of fiction. The story Matilda O'Donnell MacElroy - Alien Interview (http://www.thenewearth.org/Roswell.pdf) is a free PDF which can be found on Mr. Lear's website.

In "Alien Interview"
We have a nurse who claims she was present at one of the flying saucer crash retrievals. She mentions that the alien telepathically contacted her, and that try as some of the other millitary men did do communicate with it, all was to no avail, it only communicated with MacElroy.

The "being", explained to her, that it was a biological robot, that it needed to be so because sending resource needy life forms like ourselves would be near impossible when it came to space travel over vast distances requiring long periods of time being spent in the ship.

The being also explained,,,that it had a soul,,,and that it had full memory of it's past lives. The being explained that it was part of a civilization that "created" bodies and the "soul" had the ability to download into them as "she" had done.
The biological robot was female.
Life times had different meanings for these robots with souls, because they could create a new body as they needed one, and they had full memory of their past lives.

The biological robot when on to explain a creation mythos on earth that was very much in line with the thinking in Robert Morning Sky's Terra Papers (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/08PDF_Files/The_Terra_Papers_Parts_1_and_2.pdf), and Zacharia Sitchin's works.

In the Alien Interview it was said that there was a vast Empire in our galaxy, and that earth was populated by the unwanted souls of this Empire, and the souls were kept incarnating here by means of a technological prison loop.

You see, the Empire didn't want the souls in the Empire anymore for various reasons not limited to but including, rebeliousness, innovative thinking, criminal behavior, deviant behavior, autonomy and tax evasion.

The alien explained to MacElroy that not only did this contraption work on the souls of all humans,,,,,,but,,,any way faring space travelers who might be passing through this area of space would be trapped here by the technological contraption as well.

I find that last part very interesting, because I'm always looking for strange data to corrolate and ping.
And this is some strange ping data indeed.

While I was trying to absorb the Billy Meier material from a set of audio tapes by Randolph Winters, I came across a small piece of information that caused my ears to perk. Meier was reported as asking, "can you be born on other planets"? To which it was replied to him "No, you can not be born on another planet, unless you travel there by body and then die".




Could the Djinn be like the entities talked about in the Wingmakers story and the Alien Inteview story?
I don't think so.
I don't think the Djinn are interested in traveling through space. It seems the Djinn are just another piece in the big picture or puzzle. But that is just my take.

[wnlight]

I have seen much fear expressed in this thread. Remember, We have nothing to fear but fear itself. Whether I walk in the physical world or venture beyond it, I walk with the protection of my angels. Ask your angels to protect you. I frequently ask them to protect me from all who might harm me - and also protect me from my own foolishness. ;-)

[Shezbeth]

I have seen much fear expressed in this thread. Remember, We have nothing to fear but fear itself. Whether I walk in the physical world or venture beyond it, I walk with the protection of my angels. Ask your angels to protect you. I frequently ask them to protect me from all who might harm me - and also protect me from my own foolishness.

You are welcome to your opinion, and thank you for expressing it; I do not interpret fear, and I am most interested to learn how you reach this conclusion. My impression has been one of open discussion and disclosure based on personal experiences, references, and insight/perception, with a general feeling of honest and intent-driven pursuit of a greater, if not understanding than general development of theories and ideas.

Could you relate your experiences with your angels? Depending on perception there is and can be either a world of - or little to no - difference between the entities who one is interacting with whether called Djinn, Angels, Demiurge, Archons, etc.

It is (or is it?) conducive to ask protection of entities one can trust and rely on especially in a world of unseens and unknowns. On the other hand, it is equally(?) conducive to pursue a refinement and conscious/dispositional development from which one needn't ask for protection, as one can learn to operate in a manner by which protection is unnecessary. Additionally, many of the circumstances by which an individual can be subject to individuals/forces from which protection would be desired are in some way resultant of decisions and modes of operation that leave one open to being subject to such forces.

A literal example of this would be mountain trails, where a wild animal encounter is relatively possible, plausible, and probable. While one certainly can venture to and from such locales without incident, if one makes regular habit of doing so one might be subjecting themselves to an increasing probability of encounter. Should one find one's self facing off with a wild animal that might result in an adverse consequence, asking for protection is certainly one way to go about responding to the situation. Personally, I prefer to plan ahead and have tools and resources to discourage and/or defeat adversaries. Is that a fear-based response?

There is a fine line between the concepts of 'fear' and 'the strategic mediation of potential threats and circumstances'. In chess, protecting one's king is not an expression of fear but rather an expression of practical strategy. Moreover, one might find that they can as effectively, easily, and practically identify - and eliminate - expressions of their own foolishness through critical analysis as they can through prayer.

I am not advocating against prayer, quite the contrary! However, prayer is often used in lieu of an individual's creator-given faculties and abilities, alluding to the phrase "Trust in God, but lock your doors."

Additionally, I should clarify that I am not one who personifies 'the creator' or 'God', I use such terms to simply indicate an (IMO) incomprehensible phenomenon, in the same way that native traditions refer to 'The Great Mystery'.

- Posted Today 13:37 (from my timezone). :lol:

[Shezbeth]

In many ways I am appreciative of this example, as it depicts precisely the phenomenon referred to in earlier sections of this discussion.

Let us say that an individual with their respective agreements (and potential for entities in their proximity) will react adversely to open discourse, discussion, and pursuits that are inconsistent and/or contrary to their preferences, desires, and agendas. In a way, this could be considered a low-level manifestation of the "Agent Smith" scenario mentioned here and in other similar threads.

I can understand why there could be and is reticence and apprehension in the minds of individuals in approaching and broaching topics of a 'taboo' nature such as and including the Djinn; beyond Islamic traditions much of them has been written, and rightfully promotes caution. There is significant distinction between caution and fear however, yet which is the more accurate expression of fear; apprehension/reticence or caution?

Food for thought: What color was Krishna alleged to be?

http://www.djinnuniverse.com/types-of-djinn

By that reference, I'm not saying "Krishna was a Djinn", I'm saying that in a certain perspective, the stories of Krishna are consistent with descriptions of the behavior of a type of Djinn - particularly the Marid - which are the Djinn most associated with stories of granting wishes. The 'wish-granting' Djinn are themselves associated with residing in and springing forth from a 'lamp'.

I'll try to find some links to reference, but it seems most definitively probable that the lamp in question is the pineal gland, and the 'rubbing' of it is the stimulation, decalcification, and excitation that allows the Djinn to spring forth.

My overall point is that interaction with Djinn, whether in conjunction with or isolated from previous theories about their specific natures, is part of the natural progression of one who is actively utilizing, nourishing, and working with their pineal gland, commonly referred to as the third eye.

I would further suggest that the type, nature, and disposition of the Djinn one would at that point encounter would be directly proportional and consistent to/with the disposition of the individual, and the individual's disposition is directly proportional and consistent to/with their agreements. I'm not saying that one needs to have disbanded all their non-conducive agreements 'or else' one will encounter a gnarly Djinn, but I am saying one's nature and disposition ought be of a progressive direction from which one is/would-be working to discard non-conducive agreements.

It was indicated earlier that Djinn have a varying spectrum of types and intentions, not dissimilar to the manner in which humanity expresses variance. It has been elsewhere suggested that the Djinn may out-number humanity by approximately 100 to 1 (depending on estimates). Regardless the exact figures, it would be nearly outside the threshold of possibility (IMO) to suggest that there isn't at least one Djinn to 'match' the disposition of any and all humans, especially in observance that much of the human species may possess less active, calcified, and otherwise dormant pineal glands.

Simply put I am alleging that: When a person further activates or excites their pineal gland (the lamp) the natural result is the appearance of a Djinn. The nature and type of that Djinn is in proportion to the nature and disposition of the person; people who seek selfish control and power over others will be 'presented' with authoritarian, dictatorial, and domineering (non-conducive) Djinn, whereas individuals seeking sovereign control and authority over themselves will find Djinn of a willingness, experience, and competence to assist (conducive).

While the former, acting from a standpoint of greater spiritual and metaphysical potential (and a want to make predatory use of) could be easily considered 'demonic' - even 'draconian' - in nature. The latter could likewise be considered 'angelic', or at least benevolent.

I see no fear in discussing, observing, and considering this information. I see fear in the adverse refusal to discuss/consider such information. Further, I welcome anyone who wishes to argue to the contrary.

[PurpleLama]

In many ways I am appreciative of this example, as it depicts precisely the phenomenon referred to in earlier sections of this discussion.

Let us say that an individual with their respective agreements (and potential for entities in their proximity) will react adversely to open discourse, discussion, and pursuits that are inconsistent and/or contrary to their preferences, desires, and agendas. In a way, this could be considered a low-level manifestation of the "Agent Smith" scenario mentioned here and in other similar threads.

I can understand why there could be and is reticence and apprehension in the minds of individuals in approaching and broaching topics of a 'taboo' nature such as and including the Djinn; beyond Islamic traditions much of them has been written, and rightfully promotes caution. There is significant distinction between caution and fear however, yet which is the more accurate expression of fear; apprehension/reticence or caution?

Food for thought: What color was Krishna alleged to be?

http://www.djinnuniverse.com/types-of-djinn

By that reference, I'm not saying "Krishna was a Djinn", I'm saying that in a certain perspective, the stories of Krishna are consistent with descriptions of the behavior of a type of Djinn - particularly the Marid - which are the Djinn most associated with stories of granting wishes. The 'wish-granting' Djinn are themselves associated with residing in and springing forth from a 'lamp'.

I'll try to find some links to reference, but it seems most definitively probable that the lamp in question is the pineal gland, and the 'rubbing' of it is the stimulation, decalcification, and excitation that allows the Djinn to spring forth.

My overall point is that interaction with Djinn, whether in conjunction with or isolated from previous theories about their specific natures, is part of the natural progression of one who is actively utilizing, nourishing, and working with their pineal gland, commonly referred to as the third eye.

I would further suggest that the type, nature, and disposition of the Djinn one would at that point encounter would be directly proportional and consistent to/with the disposition of the individual, and the individual's disposition is directly proportional and consistent to/with their agreements. I'm not saying that one needs to have disbanded all their non-conducive agreements 'or else' one will encounter a gnarly Djinn, but I am saying one's nature and disposition ought be of a progressive direction from which one is/would-be working to discard non-conducive agreements.

It was indicated earlier that Djinn have a varying spectrum of types and intentions, not dissimilar to the manner in which humanity expresses variance. It has been elsewhere suggested that the Djinn may out-number humanity by approximately 100 to 1 (depending on estimates). Regardless the exact figures, it would be nearly outside the threshold of possibility (IMO) to suggest that there isn't at least one Djinn to 'match' the disposition of any and all humans, especially in observance that much of the human species may possess less active, calcified, and otherwise dormant pineal glands.

Simply put I am alleging that: When a person further activates or excites their pineal gland (the lamp) the natural result is the appearance of a Djinn. The nature and type of that Djinn is in proportion to the nature and disposition of the person; people who seek selfish control and power over others will be 'presented' with authoritarian, dictatorial, and domineering (non-conducive) Djinn, whereas individuals seeking sovereign control and authority over themselves will find Djinn of a willingness, experience, and competence to assist (conducive).

While the former, acting from a standpoint of greater spiritual and metaphysical potential (and a want to make predatory use of) could be easily considered 'demonic' - even 'draconian' - in nature. The latter could likewise be considered 'angelic', or at least benevolent.

I see no fear in discussing, observing, and considering this information. I see fear in the adverse refusal to discuss/consider such information. Further, I welcome anyone who wishes to argue to the contrary.

This especially dovetails with my own experience and understanding of the mental and spiritual realms, and how they work.

[Shezbeth]

This especially dovetails with my own experience and understanding of the mental and spiritual realms, and how they work.

Precisely. Whether humans are an expression of other realms, other realms are an expression of humans, or they are all interconnected (which is and has been one of the salient points of this discussion), an individual is predisposed to be fearful of the Djinn one encounters only if one is already predisposed to fear and attracts/draws that nature/type of entity/-ies into their surroundings. Further, that the perception of fear is consequent to the presence of fear in the individual and not necessarily in what is observed by the individual. I could be wrong, but what I speak is consistent with numerous treatises and information that references/indicates the interconnection and correspondence of all things seen and unseen.

It might seem overly contentious, but it occurs to me that the perception of need to rely on unseen entities (such as Angels) for protection is derived from some of the same non-conducive agreements also discussed previously. Whether one chooses to allow outside entities to participate in their natural individual agenda or they actively exclude such entities from participation, the idea that one needs any outside participation, intervention, or assistance is an agreement.

Is it a liberating agreement, or a confining agreement?

[DNA]

I was just curious as to if anybody had an opinion on this.

I hadn't seen an episode of this show until a buddy of mine suggested I see this certain episode.
It's one of those psychic detective ghost shows.
But I did find the episode kind of unique. In it, the psychic talks about seeing these tall, like 10-12 ft apparitions, and basically states that she did not feel they were human or had been human. She stated she had never seen anything like it before. They kind of reminded me of the "DEMENTORS" from the Harry Potter movies.

I was just hoping to get an opinion on it.
The show is THE DEAD FILES, and the episode is Season 5 Episode 12
The video entry I made is from DAILYMOTION.COM


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1af657_the-dead-files-s05e12-innocent-blood_shortfilms

You can see a sketch artist rendition of what the psychic saw at 39:58 into the video.

[Delight]

One of the ideas I have been looking at is that we cannot experience anything that in some way is not invoked by our state. To enter in to the sea of consciousness beyond ordinary states will be quite the same as down the block. If one is seeking to steal as a thief, one will likely meet many others similar and maybe we get robbed? This is just one "character" aspect but from everything I know, we attract that which is like us.

In some meditations with deities, people contemplate qualities of that deity trying to "take the qualities" on. This kind of practice has many names and qualities to invoke. But the interesting part is that when one can imagine the deities and contemplate qualities, they are FOUND within. The eventual realization is that these qualities are ours too. We discover they are within as we are containing all. The unconscious way of "life" is automatic identification like "This is me Popeye" as "I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam".

The conscious way is knowing these are states and being able to release what is not in our best interests. And also, having the wisdo that even if I am tempted to have a certain character, what pursuing its "consequences" will bring. one can choose.

I actually don't think there is a "right or wrong" but more and less helpful to one's purpose. I also believe seeking perfection is not what the empowerment is at all...consciousness and choice is what looks attractive to me.

Before having any grasp, people do try to reach and there are messes. Unfortunately a primitive "character" yields meetings with that level. In fact, one can actually make that a case that no messy relationship has less than two people at work.

I am positive that there are people of all kinds we will meet and many are not 3D. Maybe some are on the fence about interdimensionals and wondering? The idea I have is we only meet certain ones like us. It is much like star wars bars of many many characters. So tend to thy own character first.

The inebriated bully in the bar stares down another "patron" and says menacingly "What are you looking at?". The response will lead to a fight if the next guy is also a bully OR a BULLIED person unsure of how to neutralize an argumentative drunk. Both expect a fight.

This is IMO true anywhere and is like a miracle realization when one begins grasping that even when one fights, one can make really great use of the information for next time.

I know people who study hermetics and some who seek to be magicians. The reason is not all the same. Some IMO start from a belief in one's powerless state, seeking a remedy. One of the greatest Mages who ever lived IMO was Geman-Czech named Franz Bardon...a GREAT man I think. He laid out in books a way for anyone to approach hermetic yoga. If one starts with his first book and follows conscientiously and seriously, it seems as if by the end of the practices, anyone actually doing the work is wiser! Someone starting out seeking and grasping for "power" IF using the yoga will not be so immature. It is as if having learned how powerful one is, there is no need to overpower?

In his second book, Franz Bardon talks about "evocation"...calling on the powers....The important point I think is that almost every single place I look I see the same direction for resumption of our real purpose and power...in the heart and awakening the divine within that is capable of meeting forces in "friendship".


Those familiar with other, popular forms of “evocation” only may think that evocation is usually done of demonic forces, and that these forces are constrained or bound to the magician’s service. Bardon would be the first to say that this is nothing but rank sorcery. A Hermetic magician is less concerned with binding demons to find hidden treasures, and the like, than he is with making friends with intelligences of higher order. Some of the beings he will meet in the spheres will be individual souls at various points within their own development, while others will be angelic in nature. Either way, they are to be tested (to see whether benevolent or malevolent), and then either befriended or rejected. Once befriended, a planar being may then be asked for permission to evoke. The practitioner of Hermetic evocation need never evoke a being against its will! To do so is not only criminal, it is also counterproductive.

In Hindu Tantra, it is known that each chakra is “ruled” by a specific Devatā. As one raises one’s awareness from chakra to chakra (viewed as microcosmic anchors of the corresponding planes), the relevant deva is invoked and then made the subject-object of identification. Thus, one sees oneself as the deva and the deva as oneself, never denying that the deva is independent of the individual psyche (jīvā) but exists within the Immanent-Transcendent Self (Ātmā). The same concept obtains for the evoked beings of Hermetic evocation. In order to befriend an entity, the magician must first empathize with it; he must then be able to fully identify with that entity and with the forces of its home-sphere in order to be able to make a temporary home for it on the physical plane and then gently welcome it to that home. Thus, Bardon’s evocation is first a process of invocation (drawing-inward and identification) followed by evocation (projecting outward). Even the better-known demonic evocation of popular occultism (such as that taught in Crowley’s Thelema, etc.) uses the method of first invoking and then evoking the being in question, though the sorcerer usually does not realize it. Just as the Hermetic or Tantric evocation of a devonic intelligence begins to awaken the seven upper chakras (or the planetary sephiroth, depending upon model) the sorcerer’s evocation of a demonic or asuric intelligence draws consciousness down into the cthonic and infernal lower chakras (qlippoth); that which is evoked is always invoked first, whether we realize it or not, and so activated within the soul of the individual.Bardon's Practice of magical Evocation (http://inpeaceprofound.com/2013/01/01/franz-bardons-hermetic-yoga-part-2-the-practice-of-magical-evocation/)

[Delight]

I'd like to share something that is really invigorating.

My sister is following Tibetan Buddhism. She considers Tsultrim Allione one of her teachers.

http://taramandala.org/about/lama-tsultrim-2/

http://www.amazon.com/Feeding-Your-Demons-Resolving-Conflict/dp/0316013137

Last night my sister shared an invocation of transforming personal demon to ones' ally. I used it (maybe not exactly as the teacher taught) and had a powerful experience.

Two chairs are used and one moves back and forth between chairs as in transactional analysis.

First one observes a personal demon in form, a "demonic" force from ones' self.
I focused on letting the vision just rise up, seeing one with no preconception of "what it is".

I saw sitting across from me, a dusky ashen skeleton thin person with lank black hair. It was slumped. It seemed like a "hungry ghost" is what i thought.

I addressed the demon and asked what it "wants".

Then I went and sat and felt the demon as me. It said "I am starving. No one pays attention to me. no one cares. I might as well be dead. It expressed that it is angry and thinks it may as well have no desires as none would be fulfilled. It said it cares about nothing because it has only being deprived.

Then one from the other chair feeds the demon. It can be done as one feels to do that but one needs to fully satiate the demon with energy.

Then the form will change or dissolve and a new form take its place.

I saw a beautiful soft feminine form.

One asks "Are you my ally?" Move back to the "form's" place and feel what the answer is.
One moves back and forth asking until an ally says "yes".

Then ask the ally, "How may you help me? How may i contact you?"

As I sat with the ally of this feminine form, It told me that the help for me could be knowing my desires. "She" could help me with a soft inviting cuddly interface with people so they would "hear" me. I would be approachable and inviting to those involved with my intentions created from my desires. I could feel fulfilled by my interactions.

She said she could be with me anytime I asked for her by her name. I incorporated her into myself.

Then I met another demon. It was again androgenous looking, thin too but not skeletal and had sores all over its body and the clothes were synthetic and ugly.

Going through the process, I learned that the demon said: "I am itchy and cannot settle down. I feel deprived too and envious of what others "have"." It said it doesn't want others to have what it does not and fights jealousy. It said it cannot do anything and cannot move and has nothing it desires. It wants to be able to be in one spot without itching. It wants feeling good and it wants having what it needs. It wants organic and beautiful. I felt this demon like "lack consciousness itself".

The first shift of the demonic form was to someone like an oriental in an emerald green robe with gold embroidery dripping with gem stones and jewellery . This form dissolved. Then I saw a fir tree with hanging "objects". Sitting with it this ally said she/he can help me know and trust everything I ever desire is within reach.

It gave me the picture of always being next to me so I could just reach out. It mused that it is The Gift Giving Tree. It has every gift. I don't have to be the one to bring the gifts as it will bring them when I ask. I will be able to be relaxed knowing the "gift" does not have to come from me. It can come through me. RELIEF.

The way to reach the gift giving tree was to JUST reach out! That made sense! I KNOW how thinking there is pervasive lack makes me "hold back". And lately I felt I have nothing to give.

I asked about the lottery.

This "lottery" idea has always been a desire...to have huge sums of cash and it is beyond being in lack for me. I always fantasized about treasure. I could spend millions easily building environmental systems and I admit "playing with money" is my dream in itself...to have in my capacity to spend anything JUST BECAUSE.

The tree communicated trust that writing desires in mundane life is like gathered leaves, unlimited for creation.
The tree's opinion of the lottery was mixed because it is my dream but also more elegant to just have when necessary rather than in a pile.

But the ally agreed it could help me by feeding the "dream" with its energy. It GREW in size and I hung up the latest lottery ticket which became a fruit and then I incorporated the tree into myself. When will the fruit ripen? I felt very free about the timing. I still love the dream of the lottery.

The final idea I received is that instead of trying to avoid feeding demons, we will enjoy feeding our allies. They are ourselves and they also are mythic, and maybe "real" in some other dimension but acknowledging the meaning FOR our aid empowers us in this life as we call on them consciously.

[DNA]

I'd like to share something that is really invigorating.

My sister is following Tibetan Buddhism. She considers Tsultrim Allione one of her teachers.

http://taramandala.org/about/lama-tsultrim-2/

http://www.amazon.com/Feeding-Your-Demons-Resolving-Conflict/dp/0316013137

Last night my sister shared an invocation of transforming personal demon to ones' ally. I used it (maybe not exactly as the teacher taught) and had a powerful experience.

Two chairs are used and one moves back and forth between chairs as in transactional analysis.

First one observes a personal demon in form, a "demonic" force from ones' self.
I focused on letting the vision just rise up, seeing one with no preconception of "what it is".

I saw sitting across from me, a dusky ashen skeleton thin person with lank black hair. It was slumped. It seemed like a "hungry ghost" is what i thought.

I addressed the demon and asked what it "wants".

Then I went and sat and felt the demon as me. It said "I am starving. No one pays attention to me. no one cares. I might as well be dead. It expressed that it is angry and thinks it may as well have no desires as none would be fulfilled. It said it cares about nothing because it has only being deprived.

Then one from the other chair feeds the demon. It can be done as one feels to do that but one needs to fully satiate the demon with energy.

Then the form will change or dissolve and a new form take its place.

I saw a beautiful soft feminine form.

One asks "Are you my ally?" Move back to the "form's" place and feel what the answer is.
One moves back and forth asking until an ally says "yes".

Then ask the ally, "How may you help me? How may i contact you?"

As I sat with the ally of this feminine form, It told me that the help for me could be knowing my desires. "She" could help me with a soft inviting cuddly interface with people so they would "hear" me. I would be approachable and inviting to those involved with my intentions created from my desires. I could feel fulfilled by my interactions.

She said she could be with me anytime I asked for her by her name. I incorporated her into myself.

Then I met another demon. It was again androgenous looking, thin too but not skeletal and had sores all over its body and the clothes were synthetic and ugly.

Going through the process, I learned that the demon said: "I am itchy and cannot settle down. I feel deprived too and envious of what others "have"." It said it doesn't want others to have what it does not and fights jealousy. It said it cannot do anything and cannot move and has nothing it desires. It wants to be able to be in one spot without itching. It wants feeling good and it wants having what it needs. It wants organic and beautiful. I felt this demon like "lack consciousness itself".

The first shift of the demonic form was to someone like an oriental in an emerald green robe with gold embroidery dripping with gem stones and jewellery . This form dissolved. Then I saw a fir tree with hanging "objects". Sitting with it this ally said she/he can help me know and trust everything I ever desire is within reach.

It gave me the picture of always being next to me so I could just reach out. It mused that it is The Gift Giving Tree. It has every gift. I don't have to be the one to bring the gifts as it will bring them when I ask. I will be able to be relaxed knowing the "gift" does not have to come from me. It can come through me. RELIEF.

The way to reach the gift giving tree was to JUST reach out! That made sense! I KNOW how thinking there is pervasive lack makes me "hold back". And lately I felt I have nothing to give.

I asked about the lottery.

This "lottery" idea has always been a desire...to have huge sums of cash and it is beyond being in lack for me. I always fantasized about treasure. I could spend millions easily building environmental systems and I admit "playing with money" is my dream in itself...to have in my capacity to spend anything JUST BECAUSE.

The tree communicated trust that writing desires in mundane life is like gathered leaves, unlimited for creation.
The tree's opinion of the lottery was mixed because it is my dream but also more elegant to just have when necessary rather than in a pile.

But the ally agreed it could help me by feeding the "dream" with its energy. It GREW in size and I hung up the latest lottery ticket which became a fruit and then I incorporated the tree into myself. When will the fruit ripen? I felt very free about the timing. I still love the dream of the lottery.

The final idea I received is that instead of trying to avoid feeding demons, we will enjoy feeding our allies. They are ourselves and they also are mythic, and maybe "real" in some other dimension but acknowledging the meaning FOR our aid empowers us in this life as we call on them consciously.

I felt like I just read a story penned by Carlos Castaneda. High praise in case you were wondering.
Very cool stuff.
I'm absolutely interested to hear how things go for you.
If you ever wish to share your musings or experiences feel free to PM them if you are hesitant to post on a thread.

Absolutely wonderful stuff.
By the way, I"m a huge fan of transactional analysis, and I recognized the chair technique right away.
I've had positive experiences with that myself.
Borrowed the technique from the book "Born to Win" of which I am a very big fan of.

Thank you
Look forward to hearing more from you

[birddog]

I agree Wnlight. Ask protection before you meditate. I always pray first, and then ask my guides and the angels to go with me, and guide me where I need to go when I go out of body or meditate. We need to meditate to contact our guides, and recieve guidance from the spirit. One can also sourround themselves in a bubble of white light, and then I say...just as the good only comes from me, let only the good come to me. I have always been protected.

Do not give in to this fear... Fear is the opposite of Love. Work with the energy of Love.

[Shezbeth]

I agree Wnlight

Splendid! Perhaps in your agreement you will be willing to indicate where you are perceiving fear!


Ask protection before you meditate. I always pray first, and then ask my guides and the angels to go with me

Why are you convinced that you want/need protection? Are you maintaining non-conducive agreements, behaviors, or dispositions that can be exploited? Have you been in some way remiss in your affairs from which there is a perception of impotence or incapability? Are you unable to whup some proverbial (non-physical) behind?


guide me where I need to go when I go out of body or meditate. We need to meditate to contact our guides, and recieve guidance from the spirit.

:doh: Okay, the latter sentence is entirely in conflict with my experience to the point of absurdity. I wouldn't rule out that that is a method that may have worked for you and/or others, but the claim that "We need" is laughable IMO. Moreover, I am curious (alarmed?) of this expression of 'need' ("guide me where I need to go"); surely you are capable of going to where you 'need' to on your own merit and ability.


just as the good only comes from me, let only the good come to me.

Right there! There, you did it just now! THAT is why you would 'need' protection, because non-physical realms are not appreciative of wanton
:bs:
... and will actively resource-manage (have their way with :eyebrows:) those who are foolish enough to practice it.

I can understand numerous reasons why an individual could/would be convinced that your former sentence is true; indeed, you are welcome to that perception. I suggest however, that such statements are uninformed in the least, and delusional in the extreme. One may actively seek that only 'good' comes from them - even IF the term 'good' wasn't a contextually biased agreement and over-simplification of circumstance - but that does not make it so. Further, one cannot push a pendulum off its center indefinitely; eventually it swings both ways (often violently depending on how aggressively it was pushed in a particular direction).

Though, statements like the former are usually uttered by those unwilling (consciously or unconsciously) to recognize/admit to those 'not-good' pendulum swings. Further, they are often the easiest to manipulate by non-physical entities.

Of course, that's clearly not the case here, I'm just referring to others who happen to claim the same. :rolleyes:

IME, praying for protection is like calling for a police escort to deal with the potential of an intruder, assailant, or otherwise. I'm not saying that it doesn't work; I'm saying that there are more sovereign ways of dealing with circumstances.

If an individual wants to be respected (I didn't say liked) by non-physical entities, they had better learn rigorous, relentless, and unflinching honesty to the best of their ability; non-humans tend to look with disdain on nonsense (foolish human) ideas, perceptions, and dispositions.

"No one is righteous, no, not one. No one is truly wise, no one is seeking God. They have all turned away, becoming worthless together -- there is no one among them doing good, no not one. Their throats are open graves, their tongues practice deceit, the poison of vipers is on their lips". Roman 3:10-13

Simply, one can have mafia goons escorting them (they call it 'protection' too ;) ) to keep others from accosting, but that's a good way to identify one's self as someone incapable of handling their own affairs (i.e. an easy mark).

More simply: Calling for protection/guidance from a perceived 'authority' is tantamount to 'giving a person a fish' (or, being given one specifically). Becoming a sovereign authority in and of yourself is tantamount to learning how to fish.


Do not give in to this fear... Fear is the opposite of Love. Work with the energy of Love.

:doh:

Here, I have extra.
:fish:

[Shezbeth]

Good morning,

I work graveyard shifts; for me it is morning. I'm posting this here because it pertains to matter discussed here (namely examples of Djinn/entity interaction). If it is desired by the OP, I will remove it and post it elsewhere, as it could be considered channeled material.

I just awoke – less than 5 minutes ago – from a profound dream experience with the entity which I interact with. Please note, that is a gross (bordering on ridiculous) simplification of what occurred, however nothing about this simplification is false.

Upon waking, I was given a choice about the understanding developed from the experience; I could share it or I could keep it. You have three guesses to determine which choice I made. I cannot claim that the information is historically accurate or authoritative, however if I were to rely on my intuition in absence of first hand observation or second hand research I can reasonably conclude as to be operating with authority.

To begin, I must make a simple definition, and for the purpose so doing it is imperative that the reader abandon all preconceived notions and judgements about the following terms I am to define, for the duration of this conveyance.


Good – Conducive to growth / Conducive to stagnation – Evil

No further connotations to those terms is either accurate or appropriate, given my understanding.

Humanity has ceased to produce good children, because the progenitors of modern children have been largely practicing evil in the most and not applying all requisite mechanisms in the least. In particular, the marriage ceremonies that are being practiced are largely/entirely of evil (in that they are not of the 'greatest' good). Marriage in antiquity was a sacred and profound ritual that has been tainted with evil by its manipulation. The removal of several aspects is how what was good has been rendered less good and/or evil.

A matrimonial ritual - what is today referred to as a “marriage ceremony” - was originally a sex ritual geared toward both unifying the active participants and conceiving good offspring in accords with physiological, mental, and spiritual acumen.

I will not be detailing what was to occur, as I have only just begun to conceive of what was to occur. Such information is well within the research and intuitive potential of any individuals so inclined, however I have only been given the basic theory at this point. Perhaps I will detail more when more is known to me, if I find it is good.

The finer details involved:
Acts which were conducive to procreation in a physical sense
Affirmations conducive to union and cooperation in a mental sense
Rites that were conducive to extancy in a spiritual sense

It was presided over by an individual sworn to celibacy and authoritative on the practices and mechanics involved; what to do and why, what not to do and why, and what to do when what not to do was done (and why). Celibacy has nothing to do with abstinence, it is entirely to do with procreation. Expectations of a lack of sexuality from celibate individuals bears the mark of evil, and can be said to be the cause of many aberrations observable in the adherents of numerous spiritual establishments.

The actions taken during the ritual allude to physical, mental, and spiritual principles and phenomena in a synergistic action that serves the procreative requirements of all three. An example is the manner in which the female spends a good portion of the ritual lying on her back in retention of the male ejaculate.

Metaphysics were to be observed, applied, and adhered to throughout including symbolism - as relates to the spiritual principles described in the occult as well as the scientific principles illustrated by the work of Masaru Emoto, et al - and a variety of others.

Example Explanations:

“Until death do you part” - final question of the vows portion.
This paraphrase is clearly understood when perceiving 'death' in a Shakespearian-era context. The term to “Die” had a dual meaning of achieving orgasm.

“You may 'kiss' the bride” - final instruction of the priest before consummation.
In modern days, one can easily imagine what would be described at this point in their own words. Recognize however, that every word of the originating ritual was designed to express and abide by the finest of refinement conceivable; phrases like "get it on" were the antithesis of what would be said, as there would be an intent of exalting reverence.

“I now pronounce […]” - declaration made in conclusion of the procreative consummation, the 'sealing within the firmament' type of statement indicating successful conclusion of the oaths, rites, and affirmations.

“Ladies and gentlement, I present [...]” - declaration to the people of the unified couple leaving the bridal chamber, which was dedicated to the matrimonial ritual. This is the notification to those not present, the 'making real in the minds of the observers' what has been manifest privately and in ritual.

While other examples exist, I feel I have effectively elucidated the idea in question. The reader may now revert to previously held definitions and perceptions as they are inclined. Thank you for your time.

This post - rendered on a word processor in advance – was completed at 12:22pst

[Shezbeth]

Allow me to suggest an example. The Matrix (and subsequent sequels). Which entities could be considered Djinn, from the standpoint of a person inside the Matrix? By inside, I include both those "plugged in" and those "outside but tapping in" (Neo and co).

Could the Smiths be considered Djinn? Or the Oracle, the Architect, the Marovingian, the Keymaker, the Train-guy, etc. down the list of more or less prominent participants. Depending on perspective, all (or none) could be considered as or representative of Djinn; further, all that are/were not human could be considered so. In such a dynamic, the overwhelming majority could be said to be negative or at least oppositional to humans, but that is because they are operating in a manner that is beneficial to themselves and their species. In extricating themselves from the Matrix, the humans would be eliminating the energetic resource extraction, but subjecting themselves to the opposition of the Smiths. In doing so - at least as depicted - they would also be in a position to interact with the Oracle and perhaps others that could be considered non-adversarial and in many ways beneficial.

Regardless, in all possible outcomes (again, as depicted) there is no individual who is not in some way operating in/around the programs and/or machines. Reflectively, there were no humans who were outside the interaction of Djinn in one way or another; whether participating with, subject to, or adversary of, they were all within a world of Djinn. All that was really left to them was the choice of the nature of their interaction. Were they willing to be an exploited resource - a cog in the machine - or would they prefer to escape the machine only to be hunted by some and yet aided and educated by others?

[Lynn]

DREAMTIME HEALING using HOLOGRAPHIC KINETICS is an understanding of two worlds, an internal to external and an external to internal world.
DREAMTIME HEALING is part of what the Australian Aboriginal "Lore Men" knew from the past and could apply; HOLOGRAPHIC KINETICS is the science behind their knowledge. With holographic kenetics Steve Richards founder of Holographic Kinetcis says dont put up a field around yourself cause that just attracts them more. And that we dont need a field around us as we already have protection from our spirit. http://www.holographickinetics.net/default.html and also other videos to watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im-MzS2-dbQ .
I had a healing done a month ago now. It was great feeling to know that you have healed your past. But sometimes you might need more than one session as these entity's dont like you being pure in spirit. I am finding myself sensitive to them sometimes and can feel their presence on top of my head, not much has been put out there on how things are and how you feel afterwards to help you along your way after healings. Alot of research on the internet to find things out, but do be carefull as there are alot out there that are not true to what they say, and can lead you on the wrong path. Listening to your inner self spirit and NOT your ego will help. Today I felt overwelmed with these entity's as I was at the shops, trying so hard to get in, making me feel i was half here and half not. being strong helps, knowing that you are the most powerful spirit in the universe.