Ravens

[Domo67]

Hi all, I've read some really good posts here from very informed people on shamanic symbols so I'm hoping someone might be able to shed a little light on my experience.
First of all on Friday morning I was awoken by a beautiful raven clattering about in my kitchen, it made a lot of noise and at first thought it was an intruder (well it was), I opened a window and it flew away without fuss. Today, Sunday about an hour ago he/she was back, this time in the hall flapping about trying to get out again I opened a window and it took to the winds.
I have no idea how it got in other than when I left the back door open it crept in stayed overnight then decided to create a fuss so it could leave, unlikely but there is no other way for it to enter! My first question is are ravens in the UK known for this and secondly I think there is a message for me here, can anyone who has deep knowledge of shamanism and ancient belief syestems tell me what they mean symbolically? I've done the google search and found some interesting info but was wondering if anyone here might be able to further educate me.

[Mu2143]

............................

[Joanne Shepard]

Hi all, I've read some really good posts here from very informed people on shamanic symbols so I'm hoping someone might be able to shed a little light on my experience.
First of all on Friday morning I was awoken by a beautiful raven clattering about in my kitchen, it made a lot of noise and at first thought it was an intruder (well it was), I opened a window and it flew away without fuss. Today, Sunday about an hour ago he/she was back, this time in the hall flapping about trying to get out again I opened a window and it took to the winds.
I have no idea how it got in other than when I left the back door open it crept in stayed overnight then decided to create a fuss so it could leave, unlikely but there is no other way for it to enter! My first question is are ravens in the UK known for this and secondly I think there is a message for me here, can anyone who has deep knowledge of shamanism and ancient belief syestems tell me what they mean symbolically? I've done the google search and found some interesting info but was wondering if anyone here might be able to further educate me.

Good morning Domo67

Very cool experiences. Sounds real and I would be still watching and trying to figure out how the raven got in, hope you figure it out and get back to us about it :)

[sheme]

A possibility that it came down the chimney, through a cat flap or open vent- have you positively identified it as a raven? could it be a Jackdaw ?they like to nest in chimney pots and often fall into the chimney You will need to install a jackdaw guard, your sweep can do this for you.

http://www.rspb.org.uk/wildlife/birdguide/name/j/jackdaw/index.aspx

http://www.rspb.org.uk/wildlife/birdguide/name/r/raven/

Either way thanks for taking care to release it Corvids (yes I had a senior moment and said raptor) mate for life, but are often hand reared they are the most intelligent of birds and can be great company or if unlucky they can be a nuisance.



http://www.andreawansbury.com/questions.php Just found this it may be of interest.

[Domo67]

I do believe it was in fact a jackdaw today, although I'm not sure about the one on Friday. The chimney leads to a wood burner that has doors on it, they were slightly ajar so I guess that's where they accessed the property, it's shut now so if another one appears the mystery will be back on :-)
Thanks for your replies will let you know if there are any further unexpected visits.

[sheme]

You may find you have a chimney fire waiting to happen so take care as Jackdaws drop twigs down the chimney until they lodge or fill it to the pot, the chosen chimney is usually traditional, please remember to check the fire box regularly, you will find them hard to deter best to get the jackdaw guard fitted asap.

[Robin]

I would suggest that you read and study Edgar Allen Poe's infamous poem, The Raven:

http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/15638

For more information about the poem:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Raven

[13th Warrior]

Everything you wanted to know and then some...

I would focus on the tradition of your people the most.

http://www.druidry.org/library/library/animal-lore-raven

[william r sanford72]

my first born was named in honor of mother earth. Ravyn Sequoia..and clean your flue before you light the woodstove..they could have it clooged.we call em chimney swifts here on the farm..as far as your visitor the jackdaws are concerned.
truth always.
wiliam.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Hi all, I've read some really good posts here from very informed people on shamanic symbols so I'm hoping someone might be able to shed a little light on my experience.
First of all on Friday morning I was awoken by a beautiful raven clattering about in my kitchen, it made a lot of noise and at first thought it was an intruder (well it was), I opened a window and it flew away without fuss. Today, Sunday about an hour ago he/she was back, this time in the hall flapping about trying to get out again I opened a window and it took to the winds.
I have no idea how it got in other than when I left the back door open it crept in stayed overnight then decided to create a fuss so it could leave, unlikely but there is no other way for it to enter! My first question is are ravens in the UK known for this and secondly I think there is a message for me here, can anyone who has deep knowledge of shamanism and ancient belief syestems tell me what they mean symbolically? I've done the google search and found some interesting info but was wondering if anyone here might be able to further educate me.

Dear OP -- firstly -- let my congratulate you on befriending/attracting one of these magnificent animals.
Due to their intelligence, it's sometimes hard to know what draws a raven or crow to human habitations.
It could have been anything.

(Western) Human myths and ghost stories tend to over-associate the raven with Death and the afterlife.
I feel that due to the social nature of these amazing birds, this may be partly undeserved.
Native Americans associated Raven with the awakening of the mind and experience of living.
Europeans associated the animal with more negative qualities.


However, the Nordic peoples respected Ravens a great deal, as ravens are among the chief totems of allfather Odin.
Hugin and Munin (Thought and Memory) are the names of his birds. Their role is gathering information for Odin.
When the ravens are not at his side, Odin's thoughts and memories cease to exist.
He sits on the throne like a dead man, unthinking, until the "ghost birds" return from Midgard.
Their chief task is seeking out the souls of the hanged and the drowned, translated as "the willfully slain and the helpless lost".

Friday is sacred to Frigga (Nordic love goddess) and the planet Venus. A Raven visiting you on a Friday morning isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Although it is possible that if you were about to embark on a journey or project, you might need to think about it first before jumping in headlong.
Sailors don't like to embark on a Friday, calling it the "Dies Infaustus" ("devilishly unlucky day".)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday

"Though Friday has always been held an unlucky day in many Christian countries, still in the Hebrides it is supposed that it is a lucky day for sowing the seed. Good Friday in particular is a favourite day for potato planting—even strict Roman Catholics make a point of planting a bucketful on that day. Probably the idea is that as the Resurrection followed the Crucifixion, and Burial so too in the case of the seed, and after death will come life."[9]

In the PNW native legends, Raven undertook a quest to provide humans with light and intelligence, and tricked the guardians of the Sun, Moon, and Stars into accepting him into their home. His goal was to steal the sun. He did this by transforming himself into a small seed or leaf (pine needle?) and allowing himself to be swallowed by the daughter of the Old Man who kept the sun.

A Raven visit might be an invitation to re-organize or at least evaluate your personal values and standards.
Do we desire earthly things out of a desire to help others? Should we value our interactions more than our property?

I've wondered for a while if crows and ravens would come into a house they're familiar with --
the crows I used to feed in Seattle got fairly bold and were almost willing to walk into the front door!
Your raven friend must have really trusted the "vibe" in your home to enter. :)

I've had crows/ravens visit though when someone important was about to die.
The first time I noticed it was before Super Bowl 2012 when Jasmin de Grazia and then Whitney Houston died under strange circumstances.
They were found drowned in the tub.

Considering Odin's ravens tend to the drowned and murdered/executed, I thought that was VERY INTERESTING. When the ravens were on the roof I couldn't stop thinking about "lady in the water" and "odin's throne". The Super Bowl show was about Odin's throne and there were two ladies in the water that week.

love

Tesla


p.s. lol


Western Jackdaws are voluble birds. The main call, frequently given in flight, is a metallic and squeaky chyak-chyak or kak-kak.[12]

This is a contact or greeting call.

A feeding call made by adults to call young, or males when offering food to their mates, has been transcribed as kiaw or kyow.

Females in return give a more drawn out version when begging for food from males, written as kyaay, tchaayk or giaaaa.[39]

Perched birds often chatter together, and before settling for the night, large roosting flocks make a cackling noise.

Western Jackdaws also have a hoarse, drawn-out alarm call,[12] arrrrr or kaaaarr, used when warning of predators or when mobbing them.[39]

Nestlings begin making a soft cheep at about a week of age. As they grow, their voice becomes louder until their call is a penetrating screech around day 18.

After this, the voice deepens and softens.[40] From day 25, the young cease calling and become silent if they hear an unfamiliar noise.[41]

[Domo67]

Thankyou everyone for your replies and tips regarding these visits, I must say the overall feeling I'm getting is that of a positive message with an underlying theme of having to claim the wisdom that these birds hold, I suppose my task will become apparent in time but I didn't get bad vibes at all from their presence and they are impressive to see close up.

Tesla what an amazing post you really picked up on a couple of themes there that struck a chord or chords, plenty to ponder on and a bit of clarity for me regarding the timing on a Friday when the first one arrived. I've been thinking about a move that I have to make in the game of life all weekend and the going over of a project before embarking makes so much sense.

[13th Warrior]

There you go; death and rebirth is the message...you are to start something new.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

a story about how smart baby crows are

P.s. My mother in law died in late 2008,a year after my dad did, if I recall correctly. My husband moved the family into his dad's place when that happened.
He told me that in the past, she loved feeding the ravens and crows, and they were trained to expect feeding at her house...

Well, before I found out about her feeding the birds, I started doing it (at the same house). Before we realized it, a crow family had "adopted" our yard.
They visited multiple times per day, sometimes staying the entire day.

This might sound really corny, but my son and I are ASD (his is very severe mostly non-verbal -- very damaged/troubled child) and had literally ZERO friends in Seattle at that time, particularly after we moved out of our Northgate apartment and into the house. The apartment contributed to me having a nervous breakdown.

Anyhow, when the crows showed up and started visiting with us -- it felt less lonely. I stopped feeling that classic "help is on the way" panic every day, and managed to enjoy their presence somewhat.

There is a point to this story: about a year before we lost the house, i.e. the summer prior, the crows had babies (or maybe one baby?).
The mother crow would bring her juvenile to our yard almost every day and the two would watch my son stim.
My three year old sat under the huge Redwood tree that Tony planted in the front yard when he was 5 years old (1975!), and played with the sand there.
The crows would watch him for hours -- and wait for our scraps.

This makes me feel guilty to admit, but feeding the crows was therapeutic for me. Feeding my son was always very hard due to his sensory issues and irritability.
Also I was a very neglectful mother. But when I fed the birds, they gave such strong feedback and reinforcement, that it helped me to see feedings as a positive thing and not just a thankless chore. Seeing the mother crow faithfully bring her baby to our yard and watch our progress every day made me feel self-conscious.

They really loved Paul (my son). They watched him closest of all. Even down to memorizing his routines.

My husband went out into the yard one day, and the baby crow decided to ham it up for him.
He (the baby crow) flew down to our sidewalk that led to the front door and patio. My son's blue toy car, about 4 inches long, was sitting there in a crack of the sidewalk.
The sidewalk had a sloping incline down toward the house.

What the baby crow did was so amazing. He approached the toy car, opened his beak, and then "bit" the car, forcing it to MOVE FORWARD.
And the crow repeated this about 5 times. It would push the car forward and hop toward it, then push it again.
The baby animal was copying my son's play routine with the miniature car.

I thought you guys would get a huge kick out of this.

Also, based on the excerpt above, we KNOW that corvids have a language.
We put them down, call it "animal noises", but it's a language just like the elephants and whales have a language.

These are creatures of intelligence and they have lessons for us too.!

(humbled by crows, lol)

Tesla

p.p.s. I forgot the important part.
When my son was placed out of home and we lost/sold the house, I was faced with a choice of giving him up or moving to Walla Walla. I decided the decent thing to do was follow my boy and be with him.

Well, I am not a perfect person and my spouse and I spent a lot of time in transition between the two places. One day we were visiting Tony's dad at the house next door to the one we lost. I waited in the car because the neighbor doesn't like me much and the house had a lot of cat hair (allergy!).

Well, while I waited, I noticed that the baby crow had landed in the Redwood tree in our former yard. He was watching me through the windshield.

And when Tony went inside the house and shut the door, an amazing thing happened. This baby crow flew down and landed on the hood of the SUV I was sitting in. And he walked right up to the glass, and looked at me.

He sat there bobbing his little head and watching me with those coal black eyes, and decided he didn't like the window glass. So then he tried landing on the passenger side mirror and couldn't hold on, and then hopped across to the neighbor's car and stood on the edge of the roof.

This little baby crow was about 4-5 feet away from me, the closest he had ever been. I wasn't sure if he was looking for Paul or if he was happy to see me, but I think it was both now.

I didn't have any good food to offer him, just an old hard piece of Twizzler candy, but he didn't seem to want food that much. He just wanted to see us again.

He was saying "goodbye". :wizard: :sad: :Cry: :(
he stayed for at least 5-10 minutes.

[raregem]

Thank you Domo67 for this thread. Fascinating lessons re: the raven MU2143 and Tesla.

would anyone be able to give insight re: the SHADOW of the RAVEN?

[ghostrider]

He was your guide , on the journey you took while in Rem sleep ... He keeps bad spirits away while you move about ... the message = well done , my good and faithfull servant ... you must have done something that day for a good cause , that few were willing to do ...

[Domo67]

There is definitely an element of re-birth going on in my life at the moment, but its more a case of the opportunity of re-birth is there for me and that I am ready to take that move. At the same the constraints placed on me by the structure of society are also still there, I think the birds are certainly guides from somewhere in my consciousness that I'm not too in-tune with, maybe its a case of them saying come on, let go, get with it, we are here waiting for you. One other thing I'll say about the intelligence of these birds that Tesla referred to in her touching story was that there was communication between us, after the initial flapping about and making a mess when I wasn't there, when I arrived and softly introduced myself, I opened the window and it was off into the daylight both times no misunderstandings no panic.

I also like the fact that they flew out of the confinement of the house and into the vastness and beauty of nature, something I'd like to do to in my own way, maybe the time has come for this, but I've still got to do it.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

That is super cool and really touching, actually --

do you ever dream about houses? because the house is our emotional state, i think.
the things that happen inside the house in the dream are very important.

the bird is a symbol of freedom as you point out.
the cute raven hopping up and out of the window was probably such a sight, lol

[sheme]

http://www.micheleknight.co.uk/articles/misc/the-message-of-the-jackdaw/

This is a lovely little relevance for us to ponder.

[Domo67]

With regards to dreams I think you're right Tesla, I read too it has to do with our emotional state, I haven't had any of those recently and haven't knowingly had contact with ravens either although I think Ghostrider could well be be right about them coming from my dreamworld.
One dream I had recently that I did find rather curious and noteworthy was being in an airport and rushing for a plane, I got onto one of those moving walkways still rushing but taking in the sights around me, then things started to really speed up and I slowed down within myself, I became very relaxed as loads of stuff happened outside of me at such speed I couldn't keep track of what was happening but that didn't matter the moving walkway took on a life of its own and felt totally safe a lot of stuff was going on outside but didn't seem that important I really started to enjoy the experience until I arrived at the terminal where I was to take my flight.
My interpretation of that is that things are going to speed up outside but what will be important is what's going on inside and when I 'arrive' I'll be off somewhere else so enjoy the ride, whatever that ride may entail.

I want to dream of ravens tonight or baby Jackdaws ;)

[Daughter of Time]

A number of years ago I had a session/reading with a medicine wheel shaman. Amongst other things, she told me that my animal spirit guide is the raven. I became somewhat alarmed as I'd associated the raven with death. She told me not to be alarmed but to be happy instead that the most clever of all birds would have chosen to be my animal guide.

Ravens are extremely intelligent. In medieval times they were used to carry messages hundreds of miles away (probably more reliable than our postal services)and they are very responsible as they would fly for hours, without stopping for food, knowing they would be fed when the message was delivered. Although they are part of the corvine family, unlike crows, they do not live in communities. They are loners, living alone or in pairs when they choose a mate. And yes, they are associated with the underworld, death and birth, or endings and beginnings.

Astrologically speaking, April is the most powerful month of endings and new beginnings this year. There might be something in your life which will bring dramatic changes. It would be interesting to know if any important changes take place in your life and I'd appreciate it if any such changes that might occur will be posted in this thread.

Best wishes!

[Domo67]

Hi Daughter of Time and thankyou for sharing your experience with ravens, its obviously quite a significant connection in your life I must admit I've underestimated them my whole life and now find myself noticing them everywhere, they seem to appear in the landscape now as creatures of intrigue and proximity, I'll start paying more attention to them now.
I find their darkness intriguing too, it almost feels like they are teaching me to look further at the darkness before I can play in the light, its like don't deny that darkness understand its part of me and then I can move on and however much I change or evolve or understand that dark part of me will always be there and that's fine when I understand that.
I guess like anything the wisdom received from a Raven can be used for good or bad. Would you be willing to divulge something about how you work with the energy of the raven, I'd be really interested.

[Hazel]

A very enjoyable thread everyone...

It attracted my attention imediatly because 2-3 yrs ago now, while living alone... for several weeks I saw many things with my minds eye while awake. Some of this seeing included having quite lucid visualizations of a man in a blue cloak, who would show and give me things... also, I would often see a gigantic raven on a stand with its foot chained to it. According to some of the things discussed here it well may have symbolized my need to become free.

All grist for the mill indeed..

[Daughter of Time]

Hi Daughter of Time and thankyou for sharing your experience with ravens, its obviously quite a significant connection in your life I must admit I've underestimated them my whole life and now find myself noticing them everywhere, they seem to appear in the landscape now as creatures of intrigue and proximity, I'll start paying more attention to them now.
I find their darkness intriguing too, it almost feels like they are teaching me to look further at the darkness before I can play in the light, its like don't deny that darkness understand its part of me and then I can move on and however much I change or evolve or understand that dark part of me will always be there and that's fine when I understand that.
I guess like anything the wisdom received from a Raven can be used for good or bad. Would you be willing to divulge something about how you work with the energy of the raven, I'd be really interested.

Well, you pretty much understand it. There's no point in denying the darkness in yourself or in the world since it will always be in this world as we know it.

I would suggest that you research ravens and extract your own meaning for it may be somewhat different than what they mean to me. We are all individuals and derive slightly different meanings from the same things.

The raven symbolizes magic, healing, prophecy and the great mystery of the void.

The raven is a messenger. Perhaps you will have important messages to deliver to the world in the future.

The raven adapts to its environment. This may be something you will need to do throughout your lifetime. Ravens are omnivorous. They do not choose what to eat but eat whatever is available, whether it be fruit, leaves, worms, bugs, etc., again, adaptability to circumstances is one of its messages for you.

Ravens in the wild live to about 30 years old. That's a long life for a bird! Perhaps you will have a very long life.

Since ravens are dark, they represent the dark of the moon or the new moon. So if you wish to begin an enterprise and feel you are being guided by a raven, then choose the New Moon in which to start.

And in spite of their seeming seriousness, ravens like to have fun. Even though they don't socialize much, they are very close to their families and engage in fancy flights. Don't forget to have fun!

And the real meaning for me is to indeed look at the darkness within me and around me. The best way I can serve humanity is to expose such darkness to the light. But the darkness must be found first and then exposed to the light.

I hope this helps.

With love,

Daughter of Time

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

p.s. to those of you with a Raven totem,

I used to have Bran Mak Morn on my front license plate, in the military,
he was my protector on the way to and from work, lol

:)

someone posted this: http://www.micheleknight.co.uk/articles/misc/the-message-of-the-jackdaw/


Strangely, when I looked up the symbolism for ravens or crows (taken from my favourite symbolism site www.whats-my-sign.com) I discovered that the raven is connected to the welsh hero Bran!

Here is what the fabulous Avia Venefica has to say about Bran:

“The symbolism of wisdom and knowledge-keeping is connected with the Welsh hero Bran, the Blessed whose name means raven. Bran was the holder of ancestral memories, and his wisdom was legendary. So much so, that he had his head (the vessel of his powerful wisdom) removed and interred in the sacred White Mount in London. Ravens are still roosting there (in the Tower of London), and they’re thought to keep Bran’s wisdom protected and alive by their presence”

http://amazingstoriesmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/fraz-picts.jpg

i will have to dig that out for you guys, if i still have it, lol...
it was airbrushed and the artist did a pretty good likeness..

[onawah]

There is a similar, older thread here, if you haven't seen it:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59757-Personal-accounts-of-Native-Americans-and---Star-People--&p=688854&viewfull=1#post688854
...about similar encounters.
I just added a new post there at:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59757-Personal-accounts-of-Native-Americans-and---Star-People--&p=819429&viewfull=1#post819429
which takes up where a previous post left off at: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59757-Personal-accounts-of-Native-Americans-and---Star-People--&p=688854&viewfull=1#post688854

There's another thread about Trickster and Crow Medicine here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60250-The-Trickster
My post on that thread is here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60250-The-Trickster&p=690780&viewfull=1#post690780

I always find the subject of Animal Medicine fascinating!
Thanks!

[Domo67]

Thanks for the other threads onawah I'm having a look at them great info there as I expected.

I must say Tesla I've played rugby against some scary welsh rugby teams in my time but Bran and his buddies take the biscuit in fact they can have all the biscuits :p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bran_the_Blessed

I found a wiki entry on him, no dates, so he's a bit of a legend really, in this time of misinformation and deceipt you wonder what the the real stories are behind some of these lesser known tales and indeed the known tales maybe there is a reason these stories are so obscure. In the wiki entry they talk about him having the gift of speech and humour with no body for 7 years and then for a further 80 years before burying his head in London's White hill. I wonder if any of this is true, we are waking up to all kinds of speculation about our past and our future wouldn't surprise me at all if there was a lot more to these legends than I first imagined.

Thankyou Daughter of Time, you've given me a lot to think about regarding my experience and I'll be sure to keep you updated with any further syncronicities that might happen in my life. I'm still wondering what is the best way to go forward using the energy of the Raven/Jackdaw as a kind of guide, are there any ceremonies you can think of that might enhance my connection to this energy? It makes a lot of sense that this is happening at this time, I think we all need to to adapt and find energies that will be of service to us as we break free from servitude and into our sovereignty.

Peace and Love, Domo.

[Olam]

Ravens,
Traditional beliefs spanning many religions and cultures have built up a bad rap for the species.
All I know is that the ravens have been with me all my life, they show up in the strangest moments, they actually will come close and talk to me.
These birds have an elaborate vocabulary, its not just crowing or cacking.
I have come to see them as messengers for me, warning me of trouble ahead, or even just enjoying my presence?.
So I don't see them as bringers of bad luck, they warn me of stuff ahead and I have now learned to search for the missing information I should have in a situation when they show up.
I honor their presence in my life with a big crow tattoo on my arm....

Oh, and you should see the huge ones that live where I grew up, amazingly huge, never saw others that big anywhere else.
I also have been given a huge raven wing by a native man, I use it for smudging and clearing spaces.
I love Ravens with their beautiful dark blue sheen in the sunlight...

[Becky]

How lovely! I'd like to talk with you about this when we meet up - i don't know yet of the significance of Ravens, but we have many around where we live and they are prominent in my life too - I'm on a shamanic course at the moment and I will ask the leaders about your question when i next see them.

[Ahnung-quay]

If you're interested in ravens, this would be a good book to read- Mind of the Raven: Investigations and Adventures with the Wolf-Birds by Bernd Heirick.

I've not read this one but, I read one of his previous books about ravens several years ago. It was very informative and entertaining. Amazing birds!

They're called wolf birds because they partner with wolves with hunting. They circle and call to show the wolves where the game is. Once the wolves make the kill, they let the ravens feast with them. They are the only animal that the wolves will let eat while they are still eating.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

The authors name is Heinrick not Heirick.

[Olam]

If you're interested in ravens, this would be a good book to read- Mind of the Raven: Investigations and Adventures with the Wolf-Birds by Bernd Heirick.

I've not read this one but, I read one of his previous books about ravens several years ago. It was very informative and entertaining. Amazing birds!

They're called wolf birds because they partner with wolves with hunting. They circle and call to show the wolves where the game is. Once the wolves make the kill, they let the ravens feast with them. They are the only animal that the wolves will let eat while they are still eating.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

The authors name is Heinrick not Heirick.

This is very interesting considering that the raven wing I was given was the result of wolves eating, or at least killing the raven.
This was a particular situation, the wolf pack was in a protected region where this man takes care of injured animals. The wolves have a large area to dominate but its still within borders. I wonder if this situation got the wolves to act differently with the raven.
You can see the mans work here: http://www.refugepageau.ca/index.php
as well as this documentary made about the man :http://www.humanima.com/ipallfr/loupcom2/videos/video_accueil_qt-high.html

[Ahnung-quay]

It could be that it's generational learned behavior between the two species that gets lost in captivity situations. The raven and the wolf are interdependent in all areas that they both inhabit in the U.S. I'm not sure about other countries either.
Beautiful web sites. Those people are doing some good work!

[Olam]

Yes I think you are right, the natural selection and availability is somewhat modified having the occupants dependant on whatever comes by instead of searching for it. In times of survival, natural cooperation is not a priority.
This man is great, he has been with the animals all his life and the animals trust him.
He is too old now, but there was a time when he was actually part of the wolf pack.
He could go in there and be respected,...until one day when the alpha male challenged him by getting up on his hind legs and having a very close face to face with the man.....Mr Pageau was smart enough to look down and back off and he understood at that point that it was the end of his presence within the pack.

[leavesoftrees]

Have you read the Grimm's fairy tale The Seven Ravens ?

http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/grimm025.html

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

You guys wanna see a Biblical reference to Wolf and Raven mythos?


This unusual partnership also finds expression in Scripture. The only person in Scripture named after the wolf, the Midianite chieftain Ze'ev, had a partner named Orev, which means Raven in Hebrew. "And they captured the two chieftains of Midian, Orev and Ze'ev; and they executed Orev in the Rock of Orev, and they executed Ze'ev at the Winepress of Ze'ev, and they pursued Midian; and they brought the heads of Orev and Ze'ev to Gideon, across the Jordan." (Judges 7:25)

Unfortunately it was the truncated version :(

p.s. thanks to you guys for remembering that, now Odic experiences make a lot more sense.

sometimes Raven and Wolf are things we are shown when we receive knowledge.

[Cidersomerset]

I think there is a message for me here,


Hi Domo the ravens are messengers it just reminded me of
Games of Thrones , where Ravens are the Telegram service.
I don't know the meaning but it may have been trying to
deliver it.....

bOHvRaNrNSY

[Domo67]

Wow! Some great links here to have a look at thanks everyone, I was actually just down in Glastonbury and one of my missions was to buy a book on Ravens and their symbology, I found a couple of good shops but didn't buy anything, it was like nothing appeared I was going to go back later but the richness of the day took over, it was great to talk about all this stuff mentioned here on Project Avalon, there was never going to be enough time for buying a book aswell.

I stayed overnight in Glastonbury I wanted to see what appears at night there with all the mysticism connected to that area, I had a great night but no magick or messages came to me, I stayed in the George and Pilgrim Hotel which is the oldest in the area dating from 1492 all old beams holding plenty of stories from energies of old. Everything creaked in this place but that didn't bother me at all, my only complaint was the portrait above the bed of a very odd looking man from the 1700's or thereabouts.
I did have an interesting dream which loosely connects to the posts since made on this thread, a bird was fighting with a dog it was a small black bird with an orange beak against quite a cute highland terrier. I thought it was a bit playful to begin with I mean it was ridiculous the bird wouldn't stand a chance and then it changed rather like the atmosphere in a bar changes when a fight breaks out, the fun laughter and bravado goes cold and serious in an instant, I turned to someone in the dream and said
'the bird has had it then?'
He looked back and said
'you wait and see what happens'
Implying that there was little chance the dog would win, when I looked back at the fight the bird was tying the dog in knots and starting to get the better of him.

Seeing as I had just spent the previous day meeting with PA people and talking through all of the various topics discussed here and looking at solutions to the situation we find ourselves in my feeling is the dream was connected to these conversations, the obvious candidates to take control to new extremes are being tied in knots by their own arrogance and the sharp orange beak of the blackbird had a definite pen like quality to its action. I didn't see the end of the fight I woke up to a gloriously sunny morning and walked up the tor again, the air had a very clear feel to it up there.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

That is the greatest dream -- stronger might look like it wins, but often intelligence wins -- funny that your bird was tying the dog in knots...

Sounds very trickster-ish @@

p.s. it could also mean someone in your life is making you feel convolution,
someone is twisting your words, turning something good against you.

The dog may represent a relationship and the raven could mean turmoil or misunderstanding.

perhaps redirecting energies toward harmony??? lol look at me giving love advice..
going back to nature?

[Domo67]

Hi Tesla,

could always do with some love advice so I'll have to follow your link :-)

The last bit of the experience was when I was on top of the Tor, there was plenty of sunshine and a good breeze it was about 9.30 there were people there, walkers, families and so on, but not too many, I sat down and took in the view, its a beauty, I meditated for a bit there, like I said, the air was clear up there especially after the closeness of the hotel and they say the Tor has a certain energy to it and an interesting geological formation. There were a few Ravens and Jackdaws around the tor aswell there presence reminded me of my own presence and hidden messages in the vacinty.

A few people sat down near me when I was snoozing 2 different families and a group of 3 blokes in their 20's I guess, one family spoke about the roads pointing out houses of people they knew villages dotted around the second family were quieter and the tree blokes spoke about their vegetable patches the best ways to kill greenfly and the joys of growing food.

I was so happy that that conversation drifted over on the wind, going back to nature, living off the land, communities, getting good with myself is what I should be doing, message received.

I see the dream as being the bird understanding 'the word' and understanding the trickster, the sorcerer, it was a jet black dog too, its through their use of words and our understanding of them that will make the difference, blackbird stood up to the dog he didn't back down.

This could have all manner of personal stuff attached to it :-) So my interpretations could be way out aswell, who knows! Who cares!

[Domo67]

I spoke to a friend of mine about the vistors I've had and he told me a story about how he witnessed ravens fishing. He said he saw the ravens dropping bread onto the surface of a lake and when the fish came up to eat the ravens swooped in and plucked them out of the water, intelligent birds without a doubt, I did a little search and found this charming little documentary of 2 minutes.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/ravens/video-raven-intelligence/1549/

A real trickster our friend the Raven a lot to be learnt from them, something tells me I should be paying more attention to them so I bought this picture in the shop where my friend was working.

http://www.keliclarkdesigns.com/cdata/1931/img/1931_2868679.jpg