All advice welcome...

[Zaya]

Hello all. I had trouble picking where to put this topic because it really encompasses too many things so general seems to be an ok fit. I am seeking some advice from fellow avalonians who may have already gone through what I have gone through or may be currently doing so. Any advice welcome. This is a longish story, so I apologize in advance. I will keep it as brief as possible while not ignoring critical points.

I've been on this personal journey of "waking up" for a pretty short amount of time -- since January of this year. It all started when I read a book that simply challenged my perceptions of reality/time etc. It was a fairly harmless book, and an excellent book for that matter (Fringe-ology: Or How I Tried to Explain the Unexplainable by Steve Volk). I never intended to wake up to anything or find any kind of spirituality, but it just kind of happened to me. Reading that book sent me into a tailspin of manic reading and studying on too many topics to name. Essentially all of the things we talk about here. All of it.

I went through a very deep emotional breakdown and purge of all of the horror's of my repressed childhood. Then, as a coping mechanism I thought "I will try meditation!" (unguided, never had done it before). It was all innocent enough, until I felt myself leaving my body and traveling to space, but suddenly I realized it was "home" to me or I felt that way. Then, my body was flooded with a fire and ice that is wholly unexplainable to anyone who has not experienced it. (Later, I read that most people refer to this as Kundalini. I, however, have some different ideas...) I called 911 because I believed that I was dying due to the extremely fast heart rate, the ice fire, and the fact that I could see my life flash before my eyes. Needless to say, they labeled it a panic attack. I know better than that, though, because I have had panic attacks for years, and nothing rivaled this feeling. Nothing.

Fast forward a few days: After some research on kundalini and existential crisis, I decide to try meditation again. But this time, I try the "staring at a candle" kind because I was afraid of floating out of my body again. For some reason, while doing this, I become compelled to focus on trying to change my perception of the colors of the flames. This is an unfortunate choice because it worked, and sent me into a tailspin I have not been able to come back from. I looked away from the candle, and in the center of my room, time and space appears to be ripped open (through some purplish/pink clouds I see "space"). At this point, my mind goes into complete chaos and overdrive. It is impossible to explain because I felt every single thing I could possibly feel at one time it seemed. The main thing I felt that needs explaining is this: I became aware of a part of myself that I never knew about. Unfortunately, in my panic, I misinterpreted the experience. What I felt was happening was that I was living in a complete illusion that my mind had created for me and by challenging that illusion I was waking up to the reality that there was no reality. I was the only being in the world. I was being called to return to my real self which was NOTHING. I literally had to talk myself down off of a ledge. I thought I didn't have a choice to go or not, so I was screaming "I choose my illusion. I choose to stay here" etc. I called my boyfriend in a panic, and told him that I had to stay with him that night, and I did. But all night the electric ice fire keep surging and waking me up.

Ever since that day, I have continued the study, but I get overwhelmed and have these episodes. I have found that my trigger is when my perception of reality and self gets challenged in a huge way. I know many will call this the "ego" and it surely is that. The thing is, I am beginning to understand a bit more about the ego, but it seems now that when I get to close to answers, my body goes into absolute panic mode. Fight or flight. And it is bad. I actually believe that I may have gotten PTSD from the incident where the "cosmos" opened up into my room, and I am now seeking mental help for it.

Here's where the advice from you comes in. I cannot fully get help from a psychologist if I do not tell them the truth about what happened. However, you all know how the "truth" is just "crazy talk" to anyone who has not been there done that. What should I do?

I feel I need the help because I am mentally unravelling sometimes. The fire ice energy is affecting my life in a big way, AND it wakes me up in the middle of the night alllll the time. So, I don't sleep well. I figure I must be dreaming something that triggers it, but by the time I wake up, I am so panicked that I cannot remember the trigger.

At one point, it woke me up and I experienced what doctors call sleep paralysis. However, I feel that I had a visitor, if you will. A man of somewhat dark skin and long red dreads was standing next to me in bed, making unblinking, unemotional eye contact. His hand was on my leg (I felt this). We stared at each other for a minute or so (hard to say as the panic was overtaking me), and then I blinked and he was gone.

So, to tie up:
-What should I make of all this?
-How should I go about discussing this with a psychologist without getting thrown into a mental institute or being called schizophrenic? I know I am not. If anything, I may have PTSD.
-Has anyone had actual experience bringing this up to a professional?

Thank you all for your time.

[Lifebringer]

Ask your inner higher self before you meditate to guide you on what it is you are "supposed to do" because sometimes it is urgent for the spiritual side of you to do a mission you signed on for, but how can you complete it, if the very aspect of night travel/obe, is frightening you? Ask your higher self to allow you to know, that "it is with you" as you travel, until you get comfortable with the hang of it. After all that is what it's there for. You have an important piece/part, in your mission to play.:wizard: Perhaps it's why your here, so you know you aren't alone in going through it, and to alleviate your fear, so you can learn/get comfortable/confident that you are more powerful than dark side, because they want you to fear them to prevent what you must do/or where you must be?
God said "Fear not." Presidents with this same understanding said: "We have nothing to fear, but fear itself."
Stand up, gain courage and ask higher self to help you with what it is "you fear.":painkiller:
Fear is what the dark side uses as energy, so you must overcome it, to overcome the dark side with safe passage and no fear.
:thumb:
I was frightened when I saw a shoreline similar to FL go up in atomic bomb about 13 years back, but something happened from 2007 until it peaked in 2012 and that vision is no longer a very strong possibility since I've been assured that anyone about to destroy any persons, planets, or oceans through nukes, will not be allowed.
Their time is OVER! That was the message in that exclaimational way.

[AlaBil]

-What should I make of all this?
-How should I go about discussing this with a psychologist without getting thrown into a mental institute or being called schizophrenic? I know I am not. If anything, I may have PTSD.
-Has anyone had actual experience bringing this up to a professional?

Thank you all for your time.

Zaya...

Your experiences here are beyond my ability to help or to suggest what to do next. I do however, want to thank you for the effort in making this post. I'll try and keep a eye on this thread and hopefully more help is coming.

[scanner]

I don't like giving advice because we're all different . That said, I would most certainly NOT talk to any so called professional people about how you woke up . Most people don't have a clue and most will attack you for your feelings/beliefs . It's not their fault they have been programmed to do so . Anything out of their norm is unnatural to them .

I don't know about others , but I felt disbelief , then anger , now I'm chilled . I'm looking towards the more spiritual . I hope you find what you're looking for , there are many good folks on here who may help , it's a difficult path . You are not alone my friend , there are many who know what you are experiencing .

[Zaya]

God said "Fear not." Presidents with this same understanding said: "We have nothing to fear, but fear itself."
Stand up, gain courage and ask higher self to help you with what it is "you fear.":painkiller:
Fear is what the dark side uses as energy, so you must overcome it, to overcome the dark side with safe passage and no fear.
:thumb:


First off, thank you for your lovely response. I agree with you that fear is absolutely my problem. I know what I am capable of (I think), but I am so so scared to fully "go there". I am in a very strange place between beginning to understand and stopping myself from full understanding because of this crippling fear.

You have brought me to an interesting thought that I have never had before. You mentioned the dark side wanting me in fear. Do you believe it is possible that this fight or flight response I have to leaving my body may be part of the "programming" everyone speaks of? Do you think my body may be fighting the program?

My mind seems to be trying to leave my body all the time, but I talk it out of it.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Originally published in The American Journal of Psychotherapy, 1991 © Greg Bogart, all rights reserved

Are meditation and psychotherapy compatible? While meditation leads to physiological, behavioral, and cognitive changes that may have potential therapeutic benefits, psychoanalytic and Jungian critics claim that meditation is regressive, fosters dissociation, and neglects the unconscious. In contrast, transpersonal theorists contend that, when used with attention to assessing the individual's developmental stage and choice of an appropriate method, meditation may promote inner calm, loving kindness toward oneself and others, access to previously unconscious material, transformative insight into emotional conflicts, and changes in the experience of personal identity.


By Kevin Williams



In a hospital in Switzerland in 1944, the world-renowned psychiatrist Carl G. Jung, had a heart attack and then a near-death experience. His vivid encounter with the light, plus the intensely meaningful insights led Jung to conclude that his experience came from something real and eternal. Jung's experience is unique in that he saw the Earth from a vantage point of about a thousand miles above it. His incredibly accurate view of the Earth from outer space was described about two decades before astronauts in space first described it. Subsequently, as he reflected on life after death, Jung recalled the meditating Hindu from his near-death experience and read it as a parable of the archetypal Higher Self, the God-image within. Carl Jung, who founded analytical psychology, centered on the archetypes of the collective unconscious. The following is an excerpt from his autobiography entitled Memories, Dreams, Reflections describing his near-death experience.


The beginning of 1944 I broke my foot, and this misadventure was followed by a heart attack. In a state of unconsciousness, I experienced deliriums and visions which must have begun when I hung on the edge of death and was being given oxygen and camphor injections. The images were so tremendous that I myself concluded that I was close to death. My nurse afterward told me:

"It was as if you were surrounded by a bright glow."

That was a phenomenon she had sometimes observed in the dying, she added. I had reached the outermost limit, and do not know whether I was in a dream or an ecstasy. At any rate, extremely strange things began to happen to me.


Carl Jung's work on himself and his patients convinced him that life has a spiritual purpose beyond material goals. Our main task, he believed, is to discover and fulfil our deep innate potential, much as the acorn contains the potential to become the oak, or the caterpillar to become the butterfly. Based on his study of Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Gnosticism, Taoism, and other traditions, Jung perceived that this journey of transformation is at the mystical heart of all religions. It is a journey to meet the self and at the same time to meet the Divine. Unlike Sigmund Freud, Jung thought spiritual experience was essential to our well-being


In Jungian psychology, the shadow or "shadow aspect" may refer to (1) an unconscious aspect of the personality which the conscious ego does not identify in itself. Because one tends to reject or remain ignorant of the least desirable aspects of one's personality, the shadow is largely negative, or (2) the entirety of the unconscious, i.e., everything of which a person is not fully conscious. There are, however, positive aspects which may also remain hidden in one's shadow (especially in people with low self-esteem).[1] Contrary to a Freudian definition of shadow, therefore, the Jungian shadow can include everything outside the light of consciousness, and may be positive or negative. "Everyone carries a shadow," Jung wrote, "and the less it is embodied in the individual's conscious life, the blacker and denser it is."[2] It may be (in part) one's link to more primitive animal instincts,[3] which are superseded during early childhood by the conscious mind.


I really wanted quietness to meditate in, but there was always something going on outside my flat — taxis idling, people fighting, a guy shouting the titles of the newspapers he was selling. When I got disturbed I’d end up furious because of the frustrated desire for silence that I had, and sometimes I’d have quite violent emotions arising — highly ironic when you’re doing the development of lovingkindness practice!


EXPERIENCES IN MEDITATION

Various persons get various spiritual experiences. There cannot be a common experience for all. It depends upon the temperament, mode of Sadhana, place of concentration and various other factors. Some hear melodious sounds in the ears. Some see lights. Some get Ananda (spiritual bliss). Some get both Prakasa and Ananda. During meditation, you may experience that you are rising from your seat. Some experience that they fly in the air.

...

RAPTURE

During meditation, you get rapture or ecstasy. It is of five kinds viz., the lesser thrill, momentary rapture, flooding rapture, transporting rapture and all-pervading rapture. The lesser thrill is only able to raise the hairs of the body (like the goose skin). The momentary rapture is like the productions of lightning, moment by moment. Like waves breaking on the seashore, the flooding rapture descends rapidly on the body and breaks. Transporting rapture is strong and lifts the body up to the extent of launching it into the air. When the all-pervading rapture arises, the whole body is completely surcharged, blown like a full-bladder.


CROSSING THE BODY-CONSCIOUSNESS

Aspirants are eager to get spiritual experiences soon. As soon as they get them, they are afraid. They are awfully alarmed when they go above the body-consciousness. They entertain a passing wonder whether they will come back again or not. Why should they be afraid at all? It does not matter much whether they return to body-consciousness or not. All our attempts are mainly directed towards getting over this body-consciousness. We are used to certain limitations. When these limitations suddenly drop away, we feel that there is no definite base left to stand upon. That is the reason why we are afraid when we go above the body-consciousness. That is a novel experience. Courage is needed. Bravery is an indispensable requisite. Sruti says, "Nayam-atma balahinena labhyah-This Atman can hardly be attained by weak (timid) persons." All sorts of forces have to be encountered on the way. A dacoit or an anarchist can easily realise God, because he is fearless. A push in the right direction is only necessary for him. How Jagai and Madhai, rogues of the first water, became very good saints! They pelted stones at Nityananda, the disciple of Lord Gouranga. Nityananda won them by pure divine love. Dacoit Ratnakara became Sage Valmiki.


When your inner being changes, you feel a flame going upwards.
Water, even water in contact with fire, starts evaporating upwards. Water without fire moves downwards. With fire immediately a change comes in. Beyond one hundred degrees the fire has made the water ready to move upwards; the dimension changes.
Fire always moves upwards. Even if you hold a lamp upside down the flame will go upwards, the flame cannot go downwards.
Fire is an effort to reach the highest peak, the omega point.
Another thing: if you watch a flame, you can see it only for a few seconds, split seconds, then it disappears. The higher you go, the more you disappear; the lower you go, the more solid you become.
Watch water: if it goes on getting lower and lower and lower and colder and colder, it becomes frozen, it becomes ice. Then it is like stone, then all movement stops; then it is dead. When water is frozen it is dead, it is no longer alive. You will have to melt it through fire; then movement will appear again. You will have to heat it so much that it comes to a hundred-degree point; then it will move upwards.
So there are three stages: no movement, that is when you are frozen; a downward movement, that is when you are like water – first stage like ice, second like water – and the third is when you evaporate: then you move upwards.




:( hope you are feeling better.

[GloriousPoetry]

Zaya,

Focus on your heart center.....your soul essence and tell yourself that your soul is where your truth lies......ten years ago I went through my kundalini experience....4 months of being enraptured by unusual energies..... a book you may want to read is Our Universal Journey by George Kavassilas.

[genevieve]

I agree wholeheartedly with scanner. Don't go to any professional psychologist/psychiatrist.

I have a friend who calls herself an angel guide liaison who connects with her clients' guides and offers valuable insights and information. Perhaps she would be helpful. For contact info, please PM me.

Bless you, Zaya.

Peace Love Joy & Harmony,
genevieve

[panopticon]

Have you thought that maybe stopping meditation for a while, at least until you can find a practitioner who is able to explain what is going on, might be a good idea? What happens if you don't meditate etc?

If the symptoms start to balance out and lessen to a point where you are able to function adequately then continue your life as before (just with a different understanding of the world).

If symptoms continue to cause you problems Zaya then see a health professional.
Describe the problem to the health professional as best you can and ffs don't try and self diagnose.

Have you spoken to your boyfriend about what is going on (or isn't it that kind of relationship)? What about other relatives (as long as they aren't the panicky screaming run around sort). Maybe you just need to be able to talk to someone... Remember that if there is a problem your friends and family may not be able to identify it.

I know that the "Genie back in bottle" is a bit late now however I would suggest walking. Long, very slow, very deliberate, walks. Get into nature and be aware of what is around you. Walk slow and listen. Don't be a freak about it, like some weird Edward Scissorhands type character. Just get out and walk, stop for a while somewhere and listen to what's around you. Reconnect.

If that don't work then see if there's someone in your area who might be able to help (a good Buddhist or Dzogchen centre would probably be able too offer some advice). If nothing else works then see a health professional and discuss what is going on. If you can't function, you can't function.

-- Pan

[Zaya]

I don't like giving advice because we're all different . That said, I would most certainly NOT talk to any so called professional people about how you woke up . Most people don't have a clue and most will attack you for your feelings/beliefs . It's not their fault they have been programmed to do so . Anything out of their norm is unnatural to them .

I don't know about others , but I felt disbelief , then anger , now I'm chilled . I'm looking towards the more spiritual . I hope you find what you're looking for , there are many good folks on here who may help , it's a difficult path . You are not alone my friend , there are many who know what you are experiencing .

Thank you for welcoming me. This is a very tough time for me. I sometimes feel like I am secure and know a lot. Then other times I feel like I do not know what is up from down.

I agree it is not best to talk to a professional about it most likely (hence the thread). I am just wondering how to skirt around it if I actually do have PTSD from it and need PTSD specific therapy. I can't just make up another event.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Zaya,

Focus on your heart center.....your soul essence and tell yourself that your soul is where your truth lies......ten years ago I went through my kundalini experience....4 months of being enraptured by unusual energies..... a book you may want to read is Our Universal Journey by George Kavassilas.

Thank you for the suggested reading. I have read most of "Kundalini Rising" and gained insight, but did not lose the fear. I still cannot decide whether I believe the entire doctrine about kundalini or not. I feel that I experienced exactly what it is described as, but it was so traumatic I may not be seeing it clearly. I spoke with a Guru in town, and she put me on a Vata diet and told me to do sesame oil massages every night.

[Zaya]

Have you thought that maybe stopping meditation for a while, at least until you can find a practitioner who is able to explain what is going on, might be a good idea? What happens if you don't meditate etc?

I never meditated again after the experience in January. It rises on its own accord now. I do not invite it consciously.


Have you spoken to your boyfriend about what is going on (or isn't it that kind of relationship)? What about other relatives (as long as they aren't the panicky screaming run around sort). Maybe you just need to be able to talk to someone... Remember that if there is a problem your friends and family may not be able to identify it.

I have. I do not keep anything from him. He is very supportive, but he doesn't understand it himself. I also believe I may be overwhelming him with it, so I try to keep it in more.


Walk slow and listen. Don't be a freak about it, like some weird Edward Scissorhands type character. Just get out and walk, stop for a while somewhere and listen to what's around you. Reconnect.

I am going to try to reconnect with nature more in general -- and this weekend. Thank you for reminding me!

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

this reminds me eerily of that silly Frank Peretti novel. :P

Piercing the Darkness...

all these UN people meditate and channel the 'evil' ascended masters lol an' it's up to Dan Brown (just kidding) I mean angels and demons to fight it out.

the book seems good if you're a bible thumper but after you leave home leaves a bitter taste. lol

[sirdipswitch]

Hey Zaya!!! Way to go girl. cc. (chuckle chuckle, I use little ccs' for little chuckles.)

YOU are there. This is your High Self, beginning to awaken you to your Ture Spirit Self. Evidently it's time for you to get going with what it was you came here to do. WE, are Immortal Spirit Beings Of The Highest Order, and NOTHING can harm us. Fear Nothing, you are normal. This body, is not, who you really are. It is just a suit that we wear, to have this physical experience. period.

If yo go ask MSM about all this, you may just wind up in a rubber room talkin to yerself, ferever. yep, THEY don't have a clue.

What you are experiencing is spontaneous astral projection, and nothing to be fearfull of. You are simply going home. When you move into the Astral... YOU, are in complete control of YOUR experience. You are a Powerfull Immortal Being, and NOTHING, can harm you. Your very own fear, can attract things that may frighten you, but they cannot harm you, and you can just tell them to "buzz off"!! cc. The very first thing to do when you move into the astral, is to say the words; "I GO TO MY HIGH SELF." High Self, not Higher Self. If you say Higher, you may get just that. A Higher version of yourself, but not your High Self. High Self, means the Highest. The Source Self. yep, our HS is Source. HS/Source. And we can return to ONE, with IT. We can return NOW, not after we die. WE don't have to wait for death to achieve this.

You've already read a bunch in your quest for knowledge on this subject, now go read the "rest of the story", on my thread. cc. There's a couple of more books that I recommend, that you need to read, and you can find them on his website, for free.
He has written about thee simplest methodology for achieving Astral Projection that I have found. His is the method that used, to achieve Astral Projection. (OBE, out of body experience.)


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51152-The-Secret-Of-The-Soul-and-OBE

You might wanna read this post, just to get a feel for the "rest" of the story. ccc.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51152-The-Secret-Of-The-Soul-and-OBE&p=820551&viewfull=1#post820551

And now the fun begins!!!!!

ENJOY!!!!!!! :wizard::wizard::wizard:

[pathaka]

My advice, take them for what they are worth (free, worth nothing, only you can judge for yourself):

1. Get a REAL person in real physical life to guide you. Much easier. More available. Less misunderstanding than with Internet forums text conversations. Will also ground you. Try asking from local meditation or yoga circles first.

2. Do NOT talk to a psychiatrist until you have more grips on the whole thing yourself. It's your experience, your reality - study it. Don't let others tell exactly for you what it is.

3. If you are pressing too hard and having experiences you don't like, then slow down. Live a couple of normal days/weeks/months. Walk in the nature. Eat properly. Stay hydrated. Do ordinary things. Laugh. Go out with friends. Forget about all this. You can always come back to it more balanced and more recharged.

Other than that - stay playful and listen to yourself, respect your own experiences, whether curiousity, urges, fears, blockages or tiredness.

[Zaya]

:( hope you are feeling better.

Thank you. And thank you for the quotes. Interesting reading because it sounds like you may be implying something I had a hunch about but maybe did not say -- that what happened to me is extremely close to what happens during near death experiences. Do you think there could be a connection?

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

:( hope you are feeling better.

Thank you. And thank you for the quotes. Interesting reading because it sounds like you may be implying something I had a hunch about but maybe did not say -- that what happened to me is extremely close to what happens during near death experiences. Do you think there could be a connection?

I have no idea what causes the experiences, but I think if you are very careful who you talk to and what you share,
i.e. try to be calm and rational about the experiences but communicate that they stressed you out,
it might be worth your time to anonymously fish around and find a decent Jungian analyst;
some are better than others -- some just refer for meds whereas others do real work for the client,
you might have some success and open-mindedness if you find a good Jungian analyst.

They handle a lot of that kind of thing, i.e. meditation and stress,
OBEs and past life regression.

On another note it could also be good to talk to someone who knows something about Chariot/Throne OBEs.
They are likely familiar with the type of experience you've had.




Some people have these very strange OBEs and astral projection without being close to death etc.
not sure why but it's possible.

I just wanted you to know that Carl Jung experienced this.
It doesn't really matter than he was ill -- what matters is what he saw and how he felt.

it can feel really scary to think that the body is being left behind.

perhaps it is a talent that we lose as children/teens -- when the flying dreams stop we lose our OBE ability.

but certain special people can still control it.


p.s. the Four Rabbinim is a good story for when this happens to people.
http://rrzbeginnersmind.blogspot.com/2009/10/four-rabbinim.html


The Four Rabbinim

One night four Rabbinim were visted by an angel who awakened them and carried them to the Seventh Vault of the Seventh Heaven. There they beheld the sacred Wheel of Ezekiel.

Somewhere in the descent from Pardes, Paradise, to Earth, one Rabbi, having seen such splendor, lost his mind and wandered frothing and foaming until the end of his days. The second Rabbi was extremely cynical: "Oh, I just dreamed Ezekiel's Wheel, that was all. Nothing really happened." The third Rabbi carried on and on about what he had seen, for he was totally obsessed. He lectured and would not stop with how it was all constructed and what it all meant...and in this way he went astray and betrayed his faith. The fourth Rabbi, who was a poet, took a paper in hand and a reed and sat near the window writing song after song praising the evening dove, his daughter in her cradle, and all the stars in the sky. And he lived his life better than before.



p.p.s. you might also try a prayer to one or more of the "crossroads/messenger gods" :(

[Sunny-side-up]

Hi Zaya


How should I go about discussing this with a psychologist without getting thrown into a mental institute or being called schizophrenic? I know I am not. If anything, I may have PTSD.
-Has anyone had actual experience bringing this up to a professional?

I would just simply say DON'T

Your being set free so don't go running to the jailers!

Study some more and experience some more in Peace!

Love and Hug's
Alan

[Zaya]

Thank you, Sirdipswitch and Pathanka.


YOU are there. This is your High Self, beginning to awaken you to your Ture Spirit Self. Evidently it's time for you to get going with what it was you came here to do. WE, are Immortal Spirit Beings Of The Highest Order, and NOTHING can harm us. Fear Nothing, you are normal. This body, is not, who you really are. It is just a suit that we wear, to have this physical experience. period.

---

What you are experiencing is spontaneous astral projection, and nothing to be fearfull of. You are simply going home. When you move into the Astral... YOU, are in complete control of YOUR experience.

That is the thing... I do not FEEL in control when it happens. Well, I guess I feel like I can stop the full thing from happening.

I have been working through your thread slowly, actually. There are some subjects I have to take slowly because I fear I will become overwhelmed and... fire.I have in my possession the book you wrote the thread about, though I have not started it yet.

UPDATE: Sirdipswitch, I also intended to ask you something. Does the firey feeling ever go away? Are you able to travel without those physical symptoms?

[Zaya]

Hi Zaya


How should I go about discussing this with a psychologist without getting thrown into a mental institute or being called schizophrenic? I know I am not. If anything, I may have PTSD.
-Has anyone had actual experience bringing this up to a professional?

I would just simply say DON'T

Your being set free so don't go running to the jailers!

Study some more and experience some more in Peace!

Love and Hug's
Alan

Thanks. That was sort of what I figured... I think I will still try out some therapy to help me work through my emotional issues from childhood, but I will leave all of this out of it for the time being.

[ljwheat]

This video I use on a regular basis, that helps me clear the cobwebs of daily life like the tides of the ocean never go totally away and try to renew there holds on us all. Enjoy.

zzB5DXopVs8

[sirdipswitch]

Your experience is quite typical of beginners, who don't know what they are doing or realising what they are doing. The two books that I mentioned, are "Adventures Beyond The body", and "The Secret Of The Soul", by William Buhlman. He has been a practitioner and teacher of Astral Projection, (OBE, out of body experience) for more than 40 years. His is the method that I used to get out of body the very first time. In his books he has listed many case histories of beginners experiences, and they are very similar to what you discribe. You are quite typical. Nothing to fear. Do NOT fear. You are normal. Your experience is normal. You just need to learn how to control it. Read the two books and learn. It's that simple.

Your boyfriend may enjoy the books also, and then the two of you can learn to go out of body together. Extremely joyous time for you my friend. Nothin to fear, or run off to the doctor about, that is unles you wanna wind up on drugs or in a nut house. ccc.

Here's the video that changed my life forever, when at 1:20 minutes into the video he said we are Immortal. This is William talking about OBE in a quick little 4:40 min interview about OBE. Enjoy!!!

wf-vMPn5TKE

[panopticon]

Have you thought that maybe stopping meditation for a while, at least until you can find a practitioner who is able to explain what is going on, might be a good idea? What happens if you don't meditate etc?

I never meditated again after the experience in January. It rises on its own accord now. I do not invite it consciously.


Have you spoken to your boyfriend about what is going on (or isn't it that kind of relationship)? What about other relatives (as long as they aren't the panicky screaming run around sort). Maybe you just need to be able to talk to someone... Remember that if there is a problem your friends and family may not be able to identify it.

I have. I do not keep anything from him. He is very supportive, but he doesn't understand it himself. I also believe I may be overwhelming him with it, so I try to keep it in more.


Walk slow and listen. Don't be a freak about it, like some weird Edward Scissorhands type character. Just get out and walk, stop for a while somewhere and listen to what's around you. Reconnect.

I am going to try to reconnect with nature more in general -- and this weekend. Thank you for reminding me!

G'day Zaya,

It sounds like you've got a plan. The reconnection with nature is always my first advice to anyone who is having a physiological problem that may have a psychological and/or metaphysical basis. You did describe the symptoms of a type of panic attack quite well in one section of your opening post however that doesn't mean, as you noted, that you actually were having a panic attack.

Might I suggest having a read of Tim's thread as there may be some parts that are of use to you:
Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs... (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43027-Enlightenment-A-direct-succinct-account-of-what-occurs...)

Also, as a reference, maybe this introductory text (http://libgen.org/get?md5=1277da970f0639eddf5e9e5572aa72bd&open=0) on Chinese Religions and this text (http://libgen.org/get?md5=8EAE85B0F6D51C58ED8DEA9C870E1DAF&open=0) on early Quanzhen Daoism might be of assistance (both are written in a scholarly way) in introducing some thought that may be unfamiliar to you.

Within Daoist meditative practices there are a number of problems related to those practices that are addressed early in the learning process. Similarly these are mentioned in Yogic, Dzogchen, Bon and other internal/esoteric &/or tantric traditions. In some instances novice practitioners who have not been advised of these dangers may have problems (and those who ignore advice can as well).

My advice, again, is get in contact with nature (which you've said you had planned on doing), if symptoms persist visit a respectable/respected practitioner/centre and get their advice on what is happening to you. If you are unable to function then see a respectable health professional for advice (btw, this includes well regarded Reiki practitioners if they are from a recognised branch of the tradition and been practising for a reasonable length of time [ie at least a decade]).

Just as a question, you made mention that you "may be overwhelming him [your boyfriend] with it". Are you referring to a physical manifestation of an energetic nature and/or a type of emotional dependence on him? If a physical manifestation then you need to see someone who can guide you through this problem.

Please understand that there are way too many personal things that are not suitable to talk to strangers about on an open thread. That is why it is important for you, if the walking in nature practice I mentioned is not of assistance, to seek assistance from someone who is able to essentially guide you through this time. I have absolutely no idea whether you are having a profound spiritual awakening or if something else is occurring. No matter the problem, if you are unable to function seek the assistance of a professional healthcare practitioner.

I hope this has been useful.

-- Pan

[Rich]

Zaya, I asked the same question to tim, he posted it near the end of his thread http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43027-Enlightenment-A-direct-succinct-account-of-what-occurs...&p=820742&viewfull=1#post820742

[TraineeHuman]

I've experienced something similar in the past, Zaya. If you listen to the great video ljwheat has kindly provided, as I'm sure you will, part of what it's saying, in many different ways, and ever so eloquently, is just trust yourself, that basically you're very OK and there's nothing to fear about what's happened to you. There's no problem at all about discovering the true inner you.

I spent several decades getting very detailed "advice", and endless teaching, and exercises, and "alternative" therapy, and so on and so forth. Even quite a lot from benevolent ET beings outside the physical realm. The trouble is, almost every giver of advice who's supposedly some kind of "expert" tends to claim they have the truth and they know better than you. For instance, one of the scores of teachers or advisors I worked with intensively for months or years used to say my basic problem was that I was "compulsively exteriorized from my body" all of the time. (He was an ex-scientologist, so he used funny terminology like that.) I now know that he was largely wrong. He was talking about something I had that sounds very, very similar to what you have. It took me decades to fully learn how to reconcile this detached clarity and simplicity with ordinary life, but I probably needed decades. And in retrospect, I now know that being able to stably see everything from a point of view outside your body (in addition to the ordinary point of view, in your body) is nothing but enormous strength, if you naturally or instinctively have some degree of control or mastery of it.

Looking back in retrospect today, I suspect I knew better, at least regarding myself, than nearly all the expert advice givers. All false modesty aside. So I would say, do work with as truly expert and gifted a meditation teacher as you can find. But always stay open to the possibility that in most ways you could be wiser and more aware and less narrow than them -- at least regarding what's best for you. Maybe you'll eventually learn, as I did, that a lot of what they do is give you partial or imperfect advice, until eventually you realize this and you eventually see, from this, that only you can give yourself the advice you really need.

[Wind]

How does a spontaneous Kundalini awakening happen? (http://kundaliniawakened.blogspot.fi/2010/03/how-does-spontaneous-kundalini.html)

"What does a Kundalini spontaneous awakening mean? It means I didn’t look for it, I didn’t know it wasn’t happening and in the beginning I didn’t have vaguest idea of what I was going through.

Heck, I was an atheist. “God” was a far-off concept that baffled me. You know, the standard questions. How could there be a "God" with all the suffering? With all the injustice? How could some divine spirit look down over this mess we/she/he created and not do something?

But, as it turns out, I think there is now. A divine spirit, that is. Why? Kundalini is not a secular situation. If you don’t believe in anything bigger than you and you awake Kundalini, there’s a good likelihood you’ll end up in a mental institution or seriously medicated.

Kundalini, once ignited, is the jet propulsion practice of spirituality.

“Hello, welcome to Kundalini! You will be working through all your psychological issues today…and for the rest of your life. The goal will be to resolve and let go of them in order to align yourself with the path of a greater power. You will have some astonishing insights, and if you translate them into your life you will make tremendous progress toward your goal. Once you have solved one problem, you will have another to solve. If you fight this process -- and believe me almost everyone does to some extent -- well, there's going to be some pain to be honest with you...actually, a lot of pain...sorry!

"All of this will be controlled by Goddess Kundalini – an upward driving force that will be working its way through your system with the force of a fire hose turned up to full.

"It is likely that some of you will find you have some unusual capabilities once you are awakened. You may find yourself with psychic capabilities. Or you may be able to move energy around – in people or objects. If you decide to develop these capabilities – it would be wise to use them with good intention. After all, remember that “karma” is now your middle name!”

Note that not everyone experiences Kundalini this way. K is a very individualized process unique to each individual experiencing it. Most likely the only single commonality is that driving upward force in one's system that resembles nothing else.

So why was I "awakened?" Particularly since I had no desire to do that?

There are a few theories around spontaneous awakenings. Someone has recently been exploring the connection between Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder – particularly chronic PTSD, in which category I fit -- and the awakening of Kundalini. Chronic PTSD comes from a long term abuse situation where the subject can’t process the trauma – as in childhood abuse.

It seems logical if you think about it. If you were abused or neglected on a regular basis by your parents and were punished for having any emotional reaction around that – you have stashed that emotional energy somewhere in your body. Well accepted therapies now acknowledge that we may stash emotional “memory” in muscles and even bones, and massage may be recommended for those who are trying to resolve childhood trauma.

But if you can’t resolve it at all or ever – well, it’s stuck in there. And the longer it’s stuck, the more that pressure-cooker energy builds up in your system. Some people with chronic abuse histories get sick, some people get depressed, and finally some people (I have some theories as to who) will finally HAVE to process it. The energy will explode out of their systems – forcing them to deal with what they’ve denied until now. The explosion is Kundalini.

I spent 45 years denying I had any problems. I’ve spent 15 years with Kundalini processing my past and those problems. (I am hoping it does not take another 30 years.) About a month ago I finally began to forgive my parents. That was a huge relief. And there is no way I could have gotten there if it hadn’t been for Kundalini. No matter how much therapy I did it wouldn’t have been enough.

In Kundalini one of the parallel theories to the psych one is that we have a container in our first chakra (the bottom one at the coccyx) that holds all our unexplored potential, unresolved trauma, unexpressed joys…etc. As long as the container is sealed all those things remain in homeostasis – balanced – we deal somehow. But if the container gets disturbed or overtaxed – it ruptures and releases that energy upward. This is the image of the Kundalini “serpent” uncoiling, raising its head and shooting its rays upward when Kundalini is awakened. In order to release the potential part – first you’ll have to resolve the trauma."

[Zaya]

Just as a question, you made mention that you "may be overwhelming him [your boyfriend] with it". Are you referring to a physical manifestation of an energetic nature and/or a type of emotional dependence on him? If a physical manifestation then you need to see someone who can guide you through this problem.

Please understand that there are way too many personal things that are not suitable to talk to strangers about on an open thread. That is why it is important for you, if the walking in nature practice I mentioned is not of assistance, to seek assistance from someone who is able to essentially guide you through this time. I have absolutely no idea whether you are having a profound spiritual awakening or if something else is occurring. No matter the problem, if you are unable to function seek the assistance of a professional healthcare practitioner.


I was referring to an emotional dependance. He is so loving and open to me and does not judge me for what I tell him, but he has not experienced any of it for himself, and watching me crack under the pressure is hard for him. I am not trying to keep things from him, just trying to cut back on leaning on him when I am feeling "crazy" if you will so that he doesn't feel overwhelmed emotionally since he does not know how to help.

I also agree about not getting TOO personal here. I almost put it under the members only forums Perhaps I should have, but oh well. Perhaps some lurker may gain something from this if they are suffering too. I definitely have decided to leave out the details of my awakening to the therapist for now at least. I will focus on the emotional issues that got me there.

[Zaya]

[SIZE="2"][FONT="Verdana"]It seems logical if you think about it. If you were abused or neglected on a regular basis by your parents and were punished for having any emotional reaction around that – you have stashed that emotional energy somewhere in your body. Well accepted therapies now acknowledge that we may stash emotional “memory” in muscles and even bones, and massage may be recommended for those who are trying to resolve childhood trauma.

But if you can’t resolve it at all or ever – well, it’s stuck in there. And the longer it’s stuck, the more that pressure-cooker energy builds up in your system. Some people with chronic abuse histories get sick, some people get depressed, and finally some people (I have some theories as to who) will finally HAVE to process it. The energy will explode out of their systems – forcing them to deal with what they’ve denied until now. The explosion is Kundalini.

Wow. This is exactly where I am right now. I had long term emotional abuse. Actually, the event that happened RIGHT before the "awakening" of my Kundalini was me having a complete emotional breakdown as I suddenly faced all of my repressed childhood emotional abuse and how I had hidden it from myself for years. I never thought about the idea of having PTSD from my childhood, but this seems like a very real option.

Wind, it sounds like you and I share a whole lot based off of what you wrote. Thank you so much.

[Wind]

Wind, it sounds like you and I share a whole lot based off of what you wrote. Thank you so much.

You're welcome, but it is not my writing. If you click on the title, it will take you to a blog about the subject of kundalini. I've never had any spontaneous kundalini activation, but I have seen it how it has affected people close to me and how they were institutionalized and medicated because it was too much for their psyche. During my meditations I have sometimes felt intense energy going my nervous system, but I don't think that any kundalini force has fully activated in me. Or at least I'm not aware of it. I've had my share of emotional trauma, though it has not been very severe... Although it probably has had some effects on me and my personality. I still probably have of my own demons to face (i.e. fears), so to speak. Acceptance, letting go and forgiveness have been my teachers.

[Zaya]

Ah! I somehow skipped over the link and thought you were writing that yourself. My mistake. Very helpful, nonetheless!

[Milneman]

Zaya, welcome!

A couple of questions:

Have you now or in the past ever used narcotics?
Have you now or in the past smoked cigarettes?
Do you or anyone in your family have a history of heart disease/stroke?
You mentioned having experiences with panic attacks, and later PTSD. What brought on the panic attacks, and have you at any time taken any prescribed medications for this or any other mental condition?
Have you ever had the help/counsel of a medical professional in the psychiatric profession?

Just the facts, ma'am. And welcome to Avalon. ;)

[Zaya]

Have you now or in the past ever used narcotics? I was given loritabs after a minor surgery once. Only took a few. Other than that, no.
Have you now or in the past smoked cigarettes?Unfortunately, yes. I used to be a smoker, but I have been cigarette free for about a year and a half.
Do you or anyone in your family have a history of heart disease/stroke? No.
You mentioned having experiences with panic attacks, and later PTSD. What brought on the panic attacks, and have you at any time taken any prescribed medications for this or any other mental condition? They started years ago, but I don't remember why. About the PTSD, that was just something someone suggested that I had many symptoms of. I have never been diagnosed for it, and do not know whether I actually have it. I take a small dose of paxil for anxiety right now, though.
Have you ever had the help/counsel of a medical professional in the psychiatric profession? No, but I have set myself up to do so.

[Valley]

Greetings Zaya... The first suggestion I would have for you is to realize that you have gotten yourself into this "situation", and you can get yourself out of it... or transform it into something else completely different. Perhaps you may also have a "fear" of leaving behind your old ways of thinking which are challenged by this new "experience"... I don't get the sense that there is actually anything "wrong" with this you are going through. The next time you go to sleep you can try telling yourself that you are going to see how you can work with this powerful "energy"... and when it appears again, try focusing in on it and see how you may be able to shift it around in your body and learn to work with it. I have had very similar experiences and learned that this energy can be consciously directed easily while it is happening... and when it is done I feel very healthy in the body and mind. :victory:

Perhaps you can explain more details about this energy and exactly what it feels like when it is happening?
Thank you...

[GloriousPoetry]

Zaya,


The entire doctrine about kundalini is put into question in the book I suggested earlier to you......Our Universal Journey by George Kavassalias... I ran into this book last summer and it opened a wider and broader perspective on the subject of Kundalini. Yes my kundalini experience ten years ago was extremely traumatic for me too.......so much I can say to you about my experience but I will tell you this........this energy is not organic as most people in the new age movement believe it to be....it's connected to the planet Saturn as it was revealed to me at the time of its spontaneous rising but I didn't run into anything relating it to Saturn until last summer when I read the book Our Universal Journey......

[Zaya]

Zaya,


The entire doctrine about kundalini is put into question in the book I suggested earlier to you......Our Universal Journey by George Kavassalias... I ran into this book last summer and it opened a wider and broader perspective on the subject of Kundalini. Yes my kundalini experience ten years ago was extremely traumatic for me too.......so much I can say to you about my experience but I will tell you this........this energy is not organic as most people in the new age movement believe it to be....it's connected to the planet Saturn as it was revealed to me at the time of its spontaneous rising but I didn't run into anything relating it to Saturn until last summer when I read the book Our Universal Journey......

Thank you for your input. I will have to see about that book. There is something I inherently trust about the kundalini doctrine. A lot of this has to do with how traumatic my experience was with it. I did not ask for it. I was not looking for any kind of spiritual awakening. I don't necessarily think it ISN'T true... I just think there must be something we are inherently misinterpreting about it. It certainly did not feel "organic" to me. It felt like more of a crisis of the spirit than anything else. I would love to check this reading out. Thank you.

[Zaya]

Greetings Zaya... The first suggestion I would have for you is to realize that you have gotten yourself into this "situation", and you can get yourself out of it... or transform it into something else completely different. Perhaps you may also have a "fear" of leaving behind your old ways of thinking which are challenged by this new "experience"... I don't get the sense that there is actually anything "wrong" with this you are going through. The next time you go to sleep you can try telling yourself that you are going to see how you can work with this powerful "energy"... and when it appears again, try focusing in on it and see how you may be able to shift it around in your body and learn to work with it. I have had very similar experiences and learned that this energy can be consciously directed easily while it is happening... and when it is done I feel very healthy in the body and mind. :victory:

Perhaps you can explain more details about this energy and exactly what it feels like when it is happening?
Thank you...

I would agree that I have some fear of leaving behind my old ways of thinking. The journey chose me and I was not looking for new understanding. I am currently in a very strange place between accepting many ideas that totally change my perception on reality but being too afraid to personally EXPERIENCE the change in perception. Does that make any sense?

In other words, I believe we can leave our bodies, that we are light bodies, that there are other dimensions, etc. But, as soon as this feeling manifests in the first person (aka "I" am leaving my body" I have a total fight or flight reaction.

As far as the physical symptoms, my whole body vibrates and resonates like crazy. It is so intense that my chest actually physically heats wayyyy up. It's a lot like the feeling of being electrocuted on a small scale. That kind of vibration. This tends to mostly occupy my chest/neck/head. It tends to be in one or the other, moving about. I have tinnitus, and it seriously increases during these spells. I also see visual snow - clouds of colors floating all over the place (makes it very hard to sleep because it is so intense). The colors that I see most often are purple/magenta, an off-white/gray, and a greenish color. They are like tunnel-clouds in my vision at night. (Not every night. Only nights with the intense vibrations).

[GloriousPoetry]

Zaya,

The whole experience of Kundalini is very much true...but there is more to the picture than what we are conditioned to believe about it.....the kundalini doctrine is also a limited perspective of a wider and bigger picture.......if you do read the book Our Universal Journey be prepared to be disturbed but remember that your soul essence is in control and ask that you be protected from that center of your own knowing...

I also went through a lot of emotional and mental cleansing regarding my childhood when kundalini arose in me ten years ago.....so much healing and processing in the last ten years......you are not alone.... Today I believe kundalini to be another layer of getting to the truth of who we are in this universe....


Many Blessings,

GLORIA

[Valley]

I see... this sounds very powerful, and beautiful... and very similar to what I have experienced with this almost overpowering energy. The colors purple/magenta are considered very transforming and healing... in color therapy... and green is also healing with new growth, I think. You might want to look up Color Therapy and find out more details on this. The next time it happens, try mentally moving the energy down your body to a more comfortable area, maybe all the way out through your feet... learn to work with it, instead of fearing it. This should put you much more at ease when you realize that you do have control over it.

[Zaya]

Zaya,

The whole experience of Kundalini is very much true...but there is more to the picture than what we are conditioned to believe about it.....the kundalini doctrine is also a limited perspective of a wider and bigger picture.......if you do read the book Our Universal Journey be prepared to be disturbed but remember that your soul essence is in control and ask that you be protected from that center of your own knowing...

I also went through a lot of emotional and mental cleansing regarding my childhood when kundalini arose in me ten years ago.....so much healing and processing in the last ten years......you are not alone.... Today I believe kundalini to be another layer of getting to the truth of who we are in this universe....


Many Blessings,

GLORIA

EDITED: I got my hands on a copy of it. I am trying to read so much right now, but I think maybe this should be at the top of my list?

[Zaya]

I see... this sounds very powerful, and beautiful... and very similar to what I have experienced with this almost overpowering energy. The colors purple/magenta are considered very transforming and healing... in color therapy... and green is also healing with new growth, I think. You might want to look up Color Therapy and find out more details on this. The next time it happens, try mentally moving the energy down your body to a more comfortable area, maybe all the way out through your feet... learn to work with it, instead of fearing it. This should put you much more at ease when you realize that you do have control over it.

Thank you, Valley. I am definitely working on trying to control/convert my fear of it to see it as beautiful. I am taking it slowly.

[Zaya]

Just wanted to update this thread to re-thank all of you who offered advice back when I posted this. I know it hasn't been that long, but I feel I have already made big strides toward healing and transforming from this. I am no longer afraid of the energy. I have worked on guided meditations via youtube and spotify as well as just doing my own kind of meditation. I have also read the book Adventures Out of the Body by William Bullham, another book called Kundalini Rising, and am starting Our Universal Journey this week.

However, the most important stride I have taken is in actively reprogramming my response to this energy. I have been working on turning my fear response into a love response and that has made all the difference. I have been sort of doing my own affirmations about being in control of my emotions and choosing the way I feel. This has been critical for me. I also chose to go on a vegetarian diet because all of the books I have been reading suggest it for your spiritual journey. I also had been planning this change to be in "in the future" for years.

I do not consider myself "enlightened" yet, but I am not afraid anymore and I am working every single day toward understanding. On a personal note, I believe I have developed "Adrendal Burnout Syndrome" also called "Adrenal Fatigue" from the fight or flight responses I had in my panic in the beginning from all of this, which is a huge bummer. When your adrenal glands work too hard and too often, this can happen. It is extremely typical of people with PTSD and panic attack disorders. I basically fall into all of the symptoms. Sucky part is that it can take more than a year or so to heal from it in extreme cases. (For those of you curious, here is a nice site explaining what adrenal burnout is: http://www.arltma.com/Articles/BurnoutDoc.htm) Anyone else here experienced this from their awakenings? Or is it just me?

I want to thank you all again in helping me on my journey along the way here. Cheers to being a work in progress!

[Valley]

Beautiful news Zaya... I was wondering how you've been doing with this... excellent!
Always wishing you the Best...

Just wanted to update this thread to re-thank all of you who offered advice back when I posted this. I know it hasn't been that long, but I feel I have already made big strides toward healing and transforming from this. I am no longer afraid of the energy. I have worked on guided meditations via youtube and spotify as well as just doing my own kind of meditation. I have also read the book Adventures Out of the Body by William Bullham, another book called Kundalini Rising, and am starting Our Universal Journey this week.

However, the most important stride I have taken is in actively reprogramming my response to this energy. I have been working on turning my fear response into a love response and that has made all the difference. I have been sort of doing my own affirmations about being in control of my emotions and choosing the way I feel. This has been critical for me. I also chose to go on a vegetarian diet because all of the books I have been reading suggest it for your spiritual journey. I also had been planning this change to be in "in the future" for years.

I do not consider myself "enlightened" yet, but I am not afraid anymore and I am working every single day toward understanding. On a personal note, I believe I have developed "Adrendal Burnout Syndrome" also called "Adrenal Fatigue" from the fight or flight responses I had in my panic in the beginning from all of this, which is a huge bummer. When your adrenal glands work too hard and too often, this can happen. It is extremely typical of people with PTSD and panic attack disorders. I basically fall into all of the symptoms. Sucky part is that it can take more than a year or so to heal from it in extreme cases. (For those of you curious, here is a nice site explaining what adrenal burnout is: http://www.arltma.com/Articles/BurnoutDoc.htm) Anyone else here experienced this from their awakenings? Or is it just me?

I want to thank you all again in helping me on my journey along the way here. Cheers to being a work in progress!

[mahalall]

through all is your breath,
from which all else can be seen as illusion.